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Donofrio alleges Obama birth records amended!

Leo. C. Donofrio

Leo. C. Donofrio

Flash!

Leo Donofrio has made a stunning claim on his blog in a new article: Pending Litigation: Hawaii Confirms That Obama’s Vital Records Have Been Amended.

One has to translate that headline from “birther speak” to normal usage. “Pending Litigation” means “we haven’t filed a lawsuit” and “Confirms” means “we say so, but we won’t tell you why or how”.

Hawaiian law requires that certificates that have been amended be distinctly marked “altered”, and Obama’s Certification of Live Birth clearly is not marked “altered”. This fact justifies a high degree of skepticism on Donofrio’s claim. Of course the word “Amended” in birther speak might mean something totally different from the normal usage.

Donofrio says:

I will issue a full statement and press release on behalf of TerriK via this blog in the days ahead.  This statement will include a complete history of correspondence between TerriK and Hawaii state officials in the Office of Information Practices (OIP) and the Department of Health (DoH).

Donofrio is going to try the same avenue (Freedom of Information) that Andy Martin tried and failed, except that Donofrio is attempting to leverage Department of Health Director Fukino’s statement that Obama was born in Hawaii to force disclosure of the source of that statement. It won’t work. Leo may be a lawyer (not licensed to practice in Hawaii), but he obviously has no experience dealing with vital records. The lawsuit will go nowhere. And Leo, if you are going to spread all that Latin lawyer lingo in your writing, could you at least italicize it?

Donofrio says:

Let this post be fair warning… Leo Donofrio is now interested in the birth certificate… so that we can finally prove Obama was born in Hawaii and stop the never ending circus surrounding BIGFOOT – an official long form birth certificate for President Obama.

Leo, you have been at this long enough that you should know that no document will dent the birthers’ resolve. Let’s be realistic. Birthers are conspiracy theorists. Contrary evidence to a conspiracy theorist just shows how deep the conspiracy goes. If you get “bigfoot” they will be asking why Obama won’t release his grammar school hall passes.

Well at least this story perks up an otherwise dull birther news day.

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104 Responses to Donofrio alleges Obama birth records amended!

  1. avatar
    kimba September 22, 2009 at 11:57 am #

    Time to update your Leo pic, Doc! Apparently he feels the pic he posted here better represents how he appears today.
    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/09/04/factcheck-org-capitulates-admits-error-in-obama-kenyan-citizenship-analysis/

    Speaking of fancy latin lawyer talk, maybe Leo’s gonna try the “Benedicta tu in mulieribus” motion.

  2. avatar
    Black Lion September 22, 2009 at 12:00 pm #

    Doc, you are correct…Leo says the following to get past the issue of standing…

    STANDING
    TerriK has standing to pursue this action under the statute. The UIPA manual states:
    “Any person” may make a request for government records under part II, the Freedom of Information section of the UIPA. “Person” is defined broadly to include an individual, government agencies, partnerships and any other legal entities.
    Under part II, a government agency generally may not limit access to public records based on who the requester is or the proposed use of the record.
    ISSUES
    Section 92F-12(15) states that the following must be released to the public:
    (15) Information collected and maintained for the purpose of making information available to the general public;
    On July 27, 2009 Hawaii Department of Health Director Fukino issued a press release which stated:
    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai’i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
    TerriK requested all information “collected and maintained” for the purposes of preparing the public statement made by Director Fukino as such information must be released according to the statute.
    TerriK was interested in knowing how Director Fukino came to the conclusion that the President was a natural born citizen. She was familiar with Section 92F-12(15) which demands that all information collected and maintained for the purposes of making such a public statement be made public. She was denied that information despite the clear wording in the statute. Furthermore, the case law from Hawaii clearly demands production of the records TerriK requested.

    The birthers are latching on to Leo’s “new discovery” like it is the holy grail. For instance the following comment…

    “Leo, can you use the legal theory of waiver at all? As in, Obama has made available a digital image of his alleged COLB, as a result, he was waived his right to privacy on the certificate of live birth. Exactly what privacy interest of Obama’s is being protected by not releasing Obama’s certificate of live birth (the long form) if Obama has already made his certification of live birth (the short form) public?”

    Leo says:
    [Ed. You’ve nailed an important argument.]

    “Pat Says:
    September 21, 2009 at 7:25 pm
    Amended records would include if Barrack was adopted by Leo Sottero. His original Birth Certificate would be replaced by an ammended Birth Certificate. That would lead to another set of issues involving adoption and becomming an Indonesian citizen.”

    Leo says:
    [Ed. This was not originally an action to reveal his actual BC and personal vital records info…the original requests were for records pertaining to whether he requested his file for the purpose of amending and whether he did amend… the actual contents of his personal vital records are protected, she wasnt asking to see those. She was asking whether he paid any fees to amend them and whether they had been amended… not the contents of the amendments.
    However, I am going to raise the issue that since Fukino made a public statement about his place of birth, then all records viewed by her for the purposes of making that statement are supposed to be made public under 92F-12(15), information required to be made public. Regardless, the other statement she made about him being a natural born citizen involves a whole other can of worms concerning the advice of the Attorney General and it is the AG opinion letter that we are really after and which was denied to TerriK. The statutory and case law indicates that this information MUST be made public. That means we should get an answer as to what definition of nbc Fukino used to make that statement.]

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/pending-litigation-hawaii-confirms-that-obamas-vital-records-have-been-amended/#comment-11512

    Leo’s final argument?

    Hawaii has been caught blatantly circumventing their own laws; laws specifically created to foster open government practices

    Overall this is supposed to do what? release the so called “vital records”? What if it is the COLB that was released that Dr. Fukino used in order to make her statement? What then? Make a new argument or theory that he was adopted? And how would that affect the fact that he was born in HI? It seems like Leo is getting a bit more desparate, especially now since the birthers are starting to see that Orly won’t be leading them to the promised land…

  3. avatar
    Lupin September 22, 2009 at 12:05 pm #

    Can someone enlighten me as to why this would matter?

    Assuming Uber-racist Donofrio is right (a pig just flew by my window), “amended” doesn’t mean someone crossed out “Tanzania” and wrote “Hawaii” in crayon on top of it.

    “Amended” at best would mean some kind of irrelevant change (Tuesday to Wednesday, birth mother: Joan Rivers….) but if Obama was born in Hawaii, none of the other stuff matters really.

    So can someone tell me why this would be relevant at all?

  4. avatar
    SFJeff September 22, 2009 at 12:06 pm #

    Sort of a National Enquirer moment. Anytime I see a statement like “in a few days we will be releasing/publishing” my BS detector goes off.

    Anyone with serious access to real information would release it. This doesn’t get past the smell test.

  5. avatar
    richCares September 22, 2009 at 12:09 pm #

    Birthers have so many smoking guns that it is imperative that we put up “No Smoking” signs.

  6. avatar
    Joe Loleczek September 22, 2009 at 12:13 pm #

    Instead of blindly attacking Leo everyone should be grateful to him because his quest is to put the issue of whether or not BO was born in Hawaii to rest. Leo thinks BO WAS born in Hawaii, but isn’t sure. Wouldn’t you want to know for sure? The COLB is not proof positive.

  7. avatar
    SFJeff September 22, 2009 at 12:22 pm #

    “Wouldn’t you want to know for sure?”

    I never saw George Bush’s birth certificate but instead relied upon the political process to vet him. As a person who tries to be consistant, I used the same standards for President Obama as I have for all the previous presidents.

    Did you see President Bush’s BC?

  8. avatar
    Sally Hill September 22, 2009 at 12:34 pm #

    Yeah, because he certainly wouldn’t want time to proof, refine, or finalize any ongoing research before he rushes to post anything first….yeah, that would just be Cotton Mather Crazy of him!

  9. avatar
    Black Lion September 22, 2009 at 12:40 pm #

    Of course not…We just took their word that they were all US citizens…But for Obama, we can’t just take his word. He needs to prove and supply more documentation that was ever asked from any other President. And even if the COLB was released to some of their satisfaction, then they just go ahead with the ridiculous two parent must be citizens in order to be a NBC argument.

  10. avatar
    Sally Hill September 22, 2009 at 12:47 pm #

    But didn’t Donofrio implicitly state that he was trying to prove Obama WAS born in Hawaii? I mean, if he were trying to prove otherwise by way of the amendment, I’m thinking his previous post might not have been titled: Let’s prove Obama Was Born In Hawaii So we Can Move Onto His British Birth.
    That’s just my guess…..

    Actually, I would think the amendment would have more to do with his numerous name changes / adoption than anything else. The problem with that being his Illinois Law Registration states he has never gone by any other name. Of course, this is just speculation on my part. Not that it would seem common sense or anything – and certainly a bit more than an irrelevant change, since it would prove that he had perjured himself.

    It could very well be the reason why he refuses to release the long-form. I would suspect that if the amendment were a simple day of the week change, time change – he wouldn’t keep it squirreled away.

    You seem to think that the possibility of a different mother would be irrelevant – yet, I’m the one that is Cotton Mather Crazy? …..uhh huhh.

  11. avatar
    Joe Loleczek September 22, 2009 at 12:48 pm #

    “I never saw George Bush’s birth certificate but instead relied upon the political process to vet him.”

    It seems like the “political process” is letting us all down. Communist Party presidential candidate Roger Colero was born in Nicaragua and therefore was ineligible to be president and yet his name was on the ballots in New Jersey and elsewhere in 2004 & 2008.

    Did I ever see President Bush’s BC? No, but I don’t remember there ever being a ruckus raised to see it. If there were, and he didn’t want to show it, then I would want to see it. Just common sense.

  12. avatar
    Sally Hill September 22, 2009 at 1:07 pm #

    I’m not sure I believe you.

    Who of the previous presidents had dual-citizenships, possible multiple passports, attended schools that his family couldn’t possibily have afforded, or were adopted but never seemed to have a name change?

    Well, I don’t remember NEEDING to see GWB’s BC, because there were no questions regarding who his parents were, where he was born, what passport he travelled on or how many different passports / citizenships he had for that matter. Sure there were other questions about his military service, some of his associations, and such, but I don’t remember him having past histories of dual-citizenships, or living out of the realm of expectations given his family history.

    So, exactly what standards did you employ when vetting Obama and previous presidents – I’m curious since apparently I used completely different standards than you did.

    Besides – didn’t Obama say many, many, many times during his campaign that he wasn’t GWB? Yes, yes, yes, I know – he continues to act just like GWB – but that isn’t the point. You know – imitation is the best form of flattery!

  13. avatar
    dunstvangeet September 22, 2009 at 1:08 pm #

    And the Political Process didn’t elect Roger Calero, did it? Seems reasonable to state that the Political Process did not elect a foreigner.

    The only reason that Obama’s birth certificate was raised as an issue is because he doesn’t look like one of the other Presidents. He’s different. Yes, the only reason that this was raised was because he was black. People were trying to say that he was a dangerous Muslim foreigner who was subverting the American way of life. Nothing was ever proven, and in fact, it was proven the other way.

    69,456,897 people obviously believed that Obama was eligible to be President, or otherwise they wouldn’t have voted for him.

    365 members of the Electoral College thought that he was eligible, or they wouldn’t have voted for him.

    535 members of Congress thought that he was eligible, or there’d be some objection to the certification of his votes.

  14. avatar
    aarrgghh September 22, 2009 at 1:09 pm #

    is dat chu, leo?

    i’m grateful.

    for the comedy.

  15. avatar
    misha September 22, 2009 at 1:10 pm #

    Is Barack Obama a runaway slave? Unless he shows all of his papers, that question will linger.

    SHOW US YOUR BC OBAMA! SHOW US YOUR PASSPORT!

    Whose plantation are you hiding from?! Give it up. Resign, and admit you are not free to be president. George Bush was born in Midland, Texas to a white family. There never was any question about his birth circumstances – unlike that impostor, who may have been born in KENYA!!

    Why must we have a president whose father was a negro?! I want my country back. When did Marian Robinson’s ancestors become free? Do they have the proper papers? There are too many questions.

    STOP HIDING BEHIND YOUR ABOLITIONIST AND LIBERAL LAWYERS!!

  16. avatar
    dunstvangeet September 22, 2009 at 1:21 pm #

    Dual Citizenships:

    Ulysseus S. Grant (French), Chester A. Arthur (British), Teddy Roosevelt (French), William Howard Taft (French), Franklin Delano Roosevelt (French), Harry S. Truman (French), Dwight D. Eisenhour (Prussian/German), Lyndon B. Johnson (French), Gerald Ford (French). Some of them were entitled to this citizenship when they were President of the United States, unlike Obama, who is currently only entitled to American Citizenship.

    There’s no proof of multiple passports. Though every dual citizen is entitled to them.

    As far as schools the family couldn’t have afforded? What the heck? What about William Jefferson Clinton, who came from a poor background, and went to Georgetown, Oxford, and Yale? Was he a subversive who was usurping the Presidency? Here’s your problem. Obama came up from humble beginnings, where his mother and grandparents sacrificed a lot to send him to these schools. I do not consider that a “disqualifier” that he attended schools that his family scrimpted and saved for, got scholarships to attend, and the like.

    You don’t have the evidence to say that the Adoption doesn’t have the evidence to take place. And even if you did, there is nothing about an adoption that disqualifies a Presidency. Gerald R. Ford was adopted. He was originally named Leslie Lynch King. And if you think that every adopted child takes the name of their adopted parents, you’re mistaken.

  17. avatar
    Joe Loleczek September 22, 2009 at 1:22 pm #

    “the only reason that this was raised was because he was black” – this sounds like I should get Glenn Beck’s new book “How to deal with Idiots”

    Since he is only half black can we at least see half of the birth certificate?

  18. avatar
    kimba September 22, 2009 at 1:24 pm #

    We already know for sure.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2009 at 1:27 pm #

    While opposition to Obama is mostly political, not racial, the level of disrespect shown by the likes of Joe Wilson cannot be explained by differences of policy. And the fact that Wilson’s campaign fund jumped by $750,000 immediately after his remark, suggest to me that others approve of that disrespect.

  20. avatar
    kimba September 22, 2009 at 1:28 pm #

    No question? BS, Sally. Everyone assumed about GWB and Never Asked. Tell us where and when you observed GWB’s birth certificate and passport records that you know for sure.
    If you don’t like the way Obama is running the country you have options: convince a majority of the House to Impeach him and 2/3 of the Senate to Convict him or find a candidate who can get more votes in 2012. And in 2016 he’ll become ineligible to be President after Jan 20, 2017, so then you’ll be able to shout to the rafters “He’s not eligible!!” And you will finally be right.

  21. avatar
    aarrgghh September 22, 2009 at 1:28 pm #

    sally said:

    the problem with that being his illinois law registration states he has never gone by any other name.

    no, this so-called “problem” is another of the endless tropes wheeled out by birfers.

    law registrations ask applicants if they have practiced law under another name, presumably to catch disbarred attorneys trying to obtain new licenses.

    birfers, in typical fashion, have twisted the meaning to include nicknames people may have used during their lifetime, as if the use of “barack” and “barry”, or “salome” and “sally” (and “silly”?) for that matter, constitutes some kind of illegal alias.

  22. avatar
    kimba September 22, 2009 at 1:31 pm #

    A black man always has to show more identification. A throwback to the fugitive slave law.

  23. avatar
    nbc September 22, 2009 at 1:32 pm #

    Sorry my friend but the COLB is prima facie legal evidence.

  24. avatar
    myson September 22, 2009 at 1:35 pm #

    hahahaha !!!!

    I agree !!!

  25. avatar
    kimba September 22, 2009 at 1:37 pm #

    Obama’s response to this on Letterman was classic, classy, and typical Obama understatement: ” I was black before the election.”

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2009 at 1:37 pm #

    Sally, that’s right. Donofrio is trying to shed the birther albatross from around the neck if the eligibility debate.

    What’s so very ironic, is that if Obama had just been found on the hospital steps, there would be no question that he is a natural born citizen according to Donofrio’s “Holy Grail” article.

  27. avatar
    misha September 22, 2009 at 1:41 pm #

    Ah, yes. And then Corey Booker will be inaugurated. You know, the guy who was born in Canada.

    Besides, according to Justice Taney, Corey Booker cannot be president – so the conjecture is moot.

  28. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2009 at 1:46 pm #

    I am sometimes a little impulsive when hitting the Publish button, but in the case of the article about Donofrio and FactCheck, I intentionally put the article up so that I could get the critique of the commenters. I have such excellent folks here, and such a thoughtful exchange of ideas, that I have come to appreciate the value of this safety net. The result is that the end result is better than what I could do alone. Remember, I am just a layman going up against professional persuaders.

    Donofrio is a lawyer (although not licensed to practice in the UK or Hawaii). But we’ll see whether he is just blowing smoke eventually.

  29. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2009 at 1:50 pm #

    Joe Loleczek: …Wouldn’t you want to know for sure?The COLB is not proof positive.

    That’s just the point. The COLB is exactly and precisely “proof positive”.

  30. avatar
    misha September 22, 2009 at 1:51 pm #

    “Since he is only half black can we at least see half of the birth certificate?”

    My wife is from China, so I always eat the Eastern half of her western sandwich. (bada-bing)

  31. avatar
    Bob September 22, 2009 at 2:04 pm #

    So can someone tell me why this would be relevant at all?

    It is really just an attempt to get the long form birth certificate.

  32. avatar
    Bob September 22, 2009 at 2:05 pm #

    The COLB is not proof positive.

    Under Hawaiian law, the COLB derives its data from the birth certificate, so yes it is.

  33. avatar
    misha September 22, 2009 at 2:11 pm #

    “He was originally named Leslie Lynch King.”

    No, he was originally named Leslie Lynch King, Jr.

    Better be careful – you’re on dangerous territory.

  34. avatar
    Jez September 22, 2009 at 2:14 pm #

    Uh… Mischa, darling?
    Bush was born in New Haven, Connecticut. 🙂

  35. avatar
    Rickey September 22, 2009 at 2:19 pm #

    Sally Hill: Who of the previous presidents had dual-citizenships, possible multiple passports, attended schools that his family couldn’t possibily have afforded, or were adopted but never seemed to have a name change?

    1. The is no evidence that Obama has ever held a passport from any country other than the United States. None whatsoever.

    2. Lots of students attend colleges and universities which their families can’t afford. They get scholarships and/or grants. It happens all the time.

    3. There is no evidence that Obama was ever adopted by Lolo Soetoro. None whatsoever. And even if there was an adoption, it doesn’t necessarily mean that there was a name change. I have a friend whose parents were divorced when he was an infant. His mother remarried and my friend was adopted by his stepfather, but his surname was never legally changed until he did it himself decades later. As for Obama, there is no evidence that he personally ever used the surname “Soetoro.” Yearbooks and newspaper accounts have documented that when he went to school in Hawaii and at Occidental he was known by everyone – friends, teachers, coaches – to be Barack Obama or “Barry” Obama.

  36. avatar
    misha September 22, 2009 at 2:26 pm #

    When my mother re-married, I took my step-father’s last name, but he never adopted me. My birth cert. was amended to show the name change. It does not address the issue of if there was an adoption. I have a separate paper, stating the name change because of my mother’s re-marriage, and that it was not to avoid a debt. It too, does not mention if there was an adoption.

    When he died, the lawyer for my half-brother and half-sister, asked me if I was adopted. I again said “no.” End of issue.

    This occured in NYS.

  37. avatar
    misha September 22, 2009 at 2:33 pm #

    “Bush was born in New Haven, Connecticut.”

    Oops. Thanx. Still, the story holds.

  38. avatar
    thisoldhippie September 22, 2009 at 3:25 pm #

    THIS is what he is basing this on?

    http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2302965/posts

  39. avatar
    Joe Loleczek September 22, 2009 at 3:36 pm #

    Oh really? The fact is that it is possible that a COLB from Hawaii can be given to children who were actually born in foreign countries. In addition, to my knowledge Dr. Fukino has never issued a statement verifying that the online COLB is genuine.

    She has made a statement that: [I] “have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.”

    So the online COLB is NOT “proof positive” as you have stated.

    So based on Dr. Fukino’s statement, let it be clear once and for all, Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

    But of course the real issue is not the COLB. The real issue is whether or not he was born as a “natural born” citizen as Dr. Fukino stated. Stay tuned.

  40. avatar
    Ima Foreigner September 22, 2009 at 3:43 pm #

    I don’t think Orly appreciates Leo distracting people from her ramblings…

    ‘Whatever documents I have, I make public immediately. This is important for the whole country. When I got the registrar and hospital birth certificates from Kenya, I made those public. Leo Donofrio claims that he has information from HI, that Obama’s birth certificate was amended. He should make this information public, he needs to post the document with the statement that it is amended together with the declaration of the person, who obtained this record, testifying under penalty of perjury that it is the true and correct copy of the document . It is too important not to be disclosed. We can include it in the second amended complaint. ‘

    Good thing Orly is around to hold people accountable for their actions.

    ~Cough~

  41. avatar
    Greg September 22, 2009 at 3:44 pm #

    The fact is that a COLB can be issued to someone not born in Hawaii that says they were not born in Hawaii!

    Obama’s COLB says he was born in Hawaii.

    It is signed by a registrar from the Department of Health attesting that it is a true copy or abstract of the records they hold at the DOH.

    It has a seal of the State of Hawaii.

    Neither of these things could be true if the COLB differed in ANY way from the long form. Therefore, we know that the long form says that Obama was born in Honolulu.

  42. avatar
    nbc September 22, 2009 at 3:47 pm #

    Exactly, even if such forms could be granted to children born outside of Hawaii, the COLB would reflect the actual place of birth.

  43. avatar
    Bob September 22, 2009 at 3:52 pm #

    The real issue is whether or not he was born as a “natural born” citizen as Dr. Fukino stated.

    Under prevailing case law, (almost) everyone born in the United States is a natural born citizen. As Obama was born in Hawaii, and Hawaii was a state when he was born, Obama is a natural born citizen.

  44. avatar
    misha September 22, 2009 at 3:55 pm #

    Unless you are Sun Yat Sen. (ow, stop hitting me)

  45. avatar
    misha September 22, 2009 at 3:57 pm #

    No, Obama’s father had diplomatic status.

    You can find it on the internet. (IA)

  46. avatar
    SixToeMoe September 22, 2009 at 4:10 pm #

    FYI Doc;

    Allen v Soetoro; FOIA requests with DHS.

    Kenneth Allen posted on Leo’s blog, Sept 21, 2009 he has received a letter from DHS his FOIA request for Lolo Soetoro will be granted.

  47. avatar
    kimba September 22, 2009 at 4:39 pm #

    Keep that up and Mario is gonna hire you.

  48. avatar
    SFJeff September 22, 2009 at 5:37 pm #

    “No, but I don’t remember there ever being a ruckus raised to see it. If there were, and he didn’t want to show it, then I would want to see it. Just common sense”

    And why exactly is there a ‘ruckus’ being raised in this specific case? What prompted the question being asked?

    There was no ruckus about George Bush or Bill Clinton for the same reason no one called them Muslim. Remember that darling little old lady who told John McCain that Obama was a Muslim?

    I think before we start holding up this President or any future President to new standards, we should look at who is asking the question and why. No one seems to want to question the questioners.

  49. avatar
    dunstvangeet September 22, 2009 at 5:43 pm #

    It doesn’t matter if Hawaii was a state when Obama was born.

    Charles Curtis was born in Kansas before Kansas was a state, yet was considered a Natural Born Citizen

  50. avatar
    SFJeff September 22, 2009 at 5:48 pm #

    Oh Sally- I think you are being intellectually dishonest here.

    Why was there a question about President Obama birthplace and not about Bill Clinton?

    What does dual citizenship have to do with birthplace? If your concern now is dual citizenship, what did that have to do with the call for looking at the vaulted copy of the BC last summer?

    What evidence, other than pure speculation is there that the President has multiple passports? And if he did- what would the BC have to do with that issue?

    “attended schools that his family couldn’t possibily have afforded,”

    My god- what could the Birth Certificate have to do with the schools he attended?

    “or were adopted but never seemed to have a name change?”

    Again what does this have to do with the birth certificate? There is of course no evidence of any of this.

    But don’t you see the point here Sally? There were no such rumors about Bill Clinton or about George Washington, or Ronald Reagan because no one let their fertile imaginations run wild and construct this birther fairy tale for those Presidents.

    All of those rumors you cite are just that- rumors, speculation, slander. President Obama satisfied the Secretaries of State for every state of the Union, the Democratic Party, the Electoral College and Congress. Those are parties who I relied on vetting Bill Clinton, and I was willing to accept the same parties- including the Republican Party in vetting George Bush and Ronald Reagan.

  51. avatar
    Rickey September 22, 2009 at 6:19 pm #

    SixToeMoe: FYI Doc;Allen v Soetoro; FOIA requests with DHS.Kenneth Allen posted on Leo’s blog, Sept 21, 2009 he has received a letter from DHS his FOIA request for Lolo Soetoro will be granted.

    I’m not sure what that does for him. He requested Lolo Soetoro’s passport records – so what? What do Lolo’s passport records have to do with Obama?

  52. avatar
    Rickey September 22, 2009 at 6:27 pm #

    Which goes to show that there is no single procedure which is followed. Some adopted children take the adoptive father’s name, some do not. Some have the name legally changed, some do not. Some take the name without actually being adopted.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2009 at 7:02 pm #

    Sven. I have a letter from the State Department that my FOIA will be granted. I ain’t got nothing after 7 months.

  54. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2009 at 7:16 pm #

    Thanks much. It’s gobbledygook for the most part. Adoptions and amendments are totally different animals. But except in the case of the witness protection program (I’m surprised the birthers haven’t gone down that avenue yet) BIRTH CERTIFICATES DO NOT LIE. If it says he was born in Hawaii to Ann and Barack, then that’s what the state believes is true.

  55. avatar
    SixToeMoe September 22, 2009 at 7:16 pm #

    What records did you request?

  56. avatar
    SixToeMoe September 22, 2009 at 7:33 pm #

    Allen requested all of the Soetoro family’s records because BO indicated he never used another names besides BO.

    Don’t worry. It’s all good. We’ll probably find out Barry re-affirmed his loyalty to the US and took the appropriate oath before he turned 18 and a half.

  57. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2009 at 7:40 pm #

    Stanley Ann Dunham passport records. DHS doesn’t have anything of interest.

  58. avatar
    richCares September 22, 2009 at 7:56 pm #

    passport records do not show the visa’s issued, you would have to look at actual passport for that.

  59. avatar
    Nullifidian September 22, 2009 at 8:12 pm #

    Joe Loleczek: It seems like the “political process” is letting us all down.Communist Party presidential candidate Roger Colero was born in Nicaragua and therefore was ineligible to be president and yet his name was on the ballots in New Jersey and elsewhere in 2004 & 2008.

    And his name was removed from the ballot in Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Louisiana, and Washington and substituted with that of his running mate in 2008. When was Barack Obama determined to be ineligible prior to the election?

    By the way, Róger Calero was not the Communist Party candidate for president. He was the Socialist Workers Party candidate. The SWP is Trotskyist and the CPUSA (which didn’t field a candidate in 2008) is Stalinist. There is a distinct difference.

    Did I ever see President Bush’s BC?No, but I don’t remember there ever being a ruckus raised to see it.

    So this birth certificate thing is somehow so vitally important that we cannot content ourselves with the certified copy that was put online, but you’re perfectly willing to accept a candidate who doesn’t provide his birth certificate just as long as nobody else is clamoring for it.

    That does seem like a transparent rationalization for hypocrisy.

  60. avatar
    Nullifidian September 22, 2009 at 8:32 pm #

    I’m pretty sure that even the birthers realize that the Witness Protection Program probably cautions its witnesses not to do anything that would put them in the public eye, like run for president.

    But if they can believe a convicted forger when he claims to have gotten a birth certificate direct from the hospital, or a Canadian BC certified by Dudley Do-Right, perhaps they could be made to believe anything.

  61. avatar
    Mary Brown September 22, 2009 at 10:03 pm #

    This is the next stage. I think many of these folks now President know Obama was born in and therefore have to go to the next argument. He was adapted in Indonesia by his step father. They won’t stop until he is out of office because they simply cannot accept him as President. When this fails, they will go on to something else.

  62. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2009 at 10:40 pm #

    For a Visa one would have to apply to Kenya. However, if Stanley Ann Dunham did not HAVE a passport, we could rule out her travel to Kenya. DHS doesn’t have entry and exit records that go back to 1961.

  63. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 22, 2009 at 10:43 pm #

    To receive “Soetoro’s” records, one would have to get “Soetoro’s” permission or prove that he was dead.

  64. avatar
    Rickey September 23, 2009 at 12:03 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: To receive “Soetoro’s” records, one would have to get “Soetoro’s” permission or prove that he was dead.

    Lolo Soetoro wouldn’t have had a U.S. passport anyway, so the only thing which could possibly be produced would be his entry/exit records. We know that he visited Hawaii regularly during the seventies after Obama’s mother moved back there.

  65. avatar
    Rickey September 23, 2009 at 12:08 am #

    SixToeMoe: Allen requested all of the Soetoro family’s records because BO indicated he never used another names besides BO.

    In that case, all he will get will be Lolo’s entry and exit records, if they still exist. He isn’t entitled to “all” of the Soetoro family records, because Obama’s sister is alive.

  66. avatar
    SixToeMoe September 23, 2009 at 5:49 am #

    Allen indicated in his Complaint privacy protections do not apply to foreigners.

    If a foreigner adopted a an American child (Soetoro adopts BO II), then I think there would be a record of that at DHS (which recently incorporated ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, into its fold after ICE took parts of Customs and Border Protection from US Treasury).

    Now, if a foreigner (Soetoro) adopted a foreign, permanent resident with Kenyan or British Citizenship (Obama II), then they may not have any record of it. But, I suspect the British or Kenyan Embassy would.

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 23, 2009 at 7:09 am #

    Assuming the most likely outcome (no records found), what would you conclude? A cover up?

  68. avatar
    SixToeMoe September 23, 2009 at 8:54 am #

    A possible scenario for no records found would be a foreigner adopting a foreigner.

    I always assumed Soetoro adopted BO II in Hawaii. But, I guess he could have adopted in Indonesia and there wouldn’t be any record of that in DHS.

    Didn’t BO say he went to Bali with Michelle to write his book and he never had a passport until he became a US Senator?

  69. avatar
    kimba September 23, 2009 at 9:27 am #

    Get out your world atlas and locate Bali, then locate Jakarta, Indonesia. How did you pass junior high geography.

    Obama actually wrote the exact opposite. He wrote that he proudly presented his US Passport to Customs when he returned to Hawaii. He wrote that while he was living in Indonesia, his mother would take him to the American Club and he knew he was different from the other children he went to school with: he and his mother were Americans.

    Now if you repeat the “never had a passport until he became a Senator” story, you will know you are repeating a falsehood. Which I think you knew when you wrote it above.

  70. avatar
    misha September 23, 2009 at 9:40 am #

    Obama never had a US, or UK or Kenya passport. He was born on Krypton, and moved to Tralfamadore when he was a child.

    He always had a Galactic Federation passport. Can’t anyone read anymore? It’s as plain as day in Dreams Of My Father, Jor-El, 2nd edition.

  71. avatar
    misha September 23, 2009 at 9:45 am #

    Of course. The Denialists keep moving the goalposts. A law professor will be able to write an entire book about this.

  72. avatar
    kimba September 23, 2009 at 9:49 am #

    OK, here is what I don’t understand. If Leo now wants to acknowledge Obama was born in Hawaii and move on to two-fer,super-citizen, why doesn’t he just agree the COLB is equivalent to the original, Obama was born in Hawaii and move on? The COLB proves it, what’s with helping nutty MissTickly get herself into a fruitless suit against Hawaii? I can’t wait to see what she thinks is Hawaii telling her Obama’s BC was amended. Her description over at FR sounded like the voices in her head told her. “I’m pretty certain I asked them” ?! Bizarre.

  73. avatar
    SixToeMoe September 23, 2009 at 10:56 am #

    Freeper “Fred Nerks” has done a little digging.

    BO Sr. arriving in Hawaii, 1959, with Stanley Armour Dunham driving the welcome wagon.

    http://usera.imagecave.com/Bessie/image2455630.jpg

    I’d say the BO’s autobiography is suspect.

  74. avatar
    misha September 23, 2009 at 11:13 am #

    “BO Sr. arriving in Hawaii, 1959, with Stanley Armour Dunham driving the welcome wagon.”

    No, that’s a cookout at my parents’ house, on Long Island. I recognize some of the adults there. That’s where I developed my interest in Asian girls.

  75. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 23, 2009 at 11:39 am #

    Suspect how?

  76. avatar
    Whatever4 September 23, 2009 at 11:42 am #

    Interestingly, I looked at the pictures on the site referenced below, and found this one: http://usera.imagecave.com/Bessie/obama_footprint.jpg

    Has this come up as a source for the footprint on the alleged hospital BC?

  77. avatar
    Bob September 23, 2009 at 11:58 am #

    I’d say the BO’s autobiography is suspect.

    I don’t quite follow. Perhaps an attempt to create a rationalization is in order?

  78. avatar
    Bob September 23, 2009 at 12:06 pm #

    Donofrio, like Taitz, enjoys the spotlight.

  79. avatar
    misha September 23, 2009 at 12:14 pm #

    “Has this come up as a source for the footprint on the alleged hospital BC?

    No, this is the source.

  80. avatar
    SixToeMoe September 23, 2009 at 12:50 pm #

    Read “Fred Nerks” research at FR.

  81. avatar
    nbc September 23, 2009 at 1:00 pm #

    But then gets paranoid and weird and returns to playing poker.

  82. avatar
    Bob September 23, 2009 at 1:07 pm #

    Because there are sailors in this picture therefore it must be from when Obama’s father’s arrived in Hawaii (by boat)?

    I guess that’s what passes for “research” over there.

  83. avatar
    SixToeMoe September 23, 2009 at 1:37 pm #

    Do you see the Officer standing behind the sailor? How many non-white officers were commissioned in the US Navy in the late 50’s, early 60’s?

    If you’ll read the research, then you’ll read about a ship manned by an African crew.

  84. avatar
    misha September 23, 2009 at 1:41 pm #

    No, those are the understudies for the cast of Star Trek.

  85. avatar
    Bob September 23, 2009 at 1:49 pm #

    If you’ll read the research, then you’ll read about a ship manned by an African crew.

    And from that, “Fred Nerks” concludes Obama’s father arrived by boat?

    That’s not “research,” that’s speculation.

  86. avatar
    richCares September 23, 2009 at 1:49 pm #

    FR does not do nor have research, they spend a lot of time repeating rumors, the only thing they prove is their ignorance! Very delusional people over there.

  87. avatar
    richCares September 23, 2009 at 1:51 pm #

    you are wrong, it does not rise to the level of speculation, it is bull pupu.

  88. avatar
    kimba September 23, 2009 at 1:52 pm #

    The sailor is a US Navy sailor, not a deck hand from the Black Star Line. That’s not an officer. He’s not even wearing a uniform. Give us a break Sven. It’s a Somoan guy in a skipper hat.
    Like this guy:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/19908495@N05/1956914232/
    or this guy:
    http://www.dalylivemusic.on.ca/images/Skipper.jpg

  89. avatar
    racosta September 23, 2009 at 2:04 pm #

    there is no reasearch on FR, so tell us what the picture you linked to means, what is your point.

  90. avatar
    Paul September 23, 2009 at 3:06 pm #

    The birthers, the tea baggers, the screamers, and the deathers continued extreme minority presence will become tiresome to mainstream America, if it has not already done so. To all the birthers in La, La Land, it is on you to prove to all of us that your assertion is true, if there are people who were there and support your position then show us the video (everyone has a price), either put up or frankly shut-up. I heard Orly Taitz, is selling a tape (I think it’s called “Money, Lies and Video tape”). She is from Orange County, CA, now I know what the mean when they say “behind the Orange Curtain”, when they talk about Orange County, the captial of Conspiracy Theories. You know Obama has a passport, he travel abroad before he was a Senator, but I guess they were in on it. In my opinion the Republican Party has been taken over the most extreme religious right (people who love to push their beliefs on others while trying to take away the rights of those they just hate) and that’s who they need to extract from their party if they real want to win. Good Luck, because as they said in WACO, “We Ain’t Coming Out”. I heard that she now wants to investigate the “Republican 2009 Summer of Love” list: Assemblyman, Michael D. Duvall (CA), Senator John Ensign (NV), Senator Paul Stanley (TN), Governor Mark Stanford (SC), Board of Ed Chair, and Kristin Maguire AKA Bridget Keeney (SC).

  91. avatar
    racosta September 23, 2009 at 3:44 pm #

    SixToeMoe on Research of “Fred Nerks”:
    Quote from link : There it was, the answer to how so many people travelled back and forth to Ghana, and many other destinations; they had a State owned shipping line at their disposal. No need to look for airline schedules.

    Implication is that Dunham had access to a ship from Ghana and was probably on it, and that is how she travelled to Kenya. Now take a look at the map of Ghana to Kenya and laugh: (scroll down for map)
    http://www.travelmath.com/time-difference/from/Nairobi,+Kenya/to/Accra,+Ghana

    It is so easy to turn a birther on, birthers flunked geography!

  92. avatar
    richCares September 23, 2009 at 4:09 pm #

    In SixToes Link: “During a telephone interview, one of Stanley Ann Dunham’s classmates from Mercer Island let something slip:
    Stanley Ann Dunham had sent her a post-card from a ship. In February. 1961. Imagine that.

    I lived in on Mercer Island a few years back, loved it. They have these large ferry boats in the Seattle area that travel between ports and islands that are fun. A great mini vacation and inexpensive. Blake Island was my favorite trip. Really great one day trips. While travelling we always purchased postcards that the boat then mailed for us, on our trip to Vancouver Island I mailed 14 cards.
    Imagine that.

  93. avatar
    Black Lion September 24, 2009 at 12:09 pm #

    Leo has of course posted his infamous smoking gun…the correspondence between the infamous TerriK and the state of HI….And of course this is now what the birthers are putting their hopes on…

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/terrik-investigation-part-1-hawaii-department-of-health-directors-fukino-and-akubo-are-guilty-of-misdirection/

    And he makes the assertion that Dr. Fukino is guilty of misdirection. Wow. No wonder why he became a professional poker player….

  94. avatar
    loucon September 28, 2009 at 8:23 am #

    Whatever4: Interestingly, I looked at the pictures on the site referenced below, and found this one: http://usera.imagecave.com/Bessie/obama_footprint.jpg
    Has this come up as a source for the footprint on the alleged hospital BC?

    Looks more like this was created after the fact only to discredit the alleged hospital BC. Here is the source for the “Official looking document” that the footprints were then added to to make it appear that this might be the source. It’s just another forgery in a long list of forgeries.

    http://tropej.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/pdf_extract/12/supp3/7

    Note that this source is reputable.
    Also note that this is a scan from the original document. No feet.

    You know what I find interesting? When someone posts a comment with material that is unsubstantiated on Leo’s site, he points it out with a warning to the commenter. Looks like anything goes here.

    Loucon

  95. avatar
    Whatever4 September 28, 2009 at 9:19 am #

    Thanks for the research. For some reason I’ve never been able to figure out, some sites on my computer come up as part of the CT State University Libraries system “CONSULS”, requiring a log-in. Your link is one of them. http://www.accuweather.com is another. (I’ve tried all sorts of things to get rid of it and don’t get into that here.)

    That’s why I asked about it. Is there possibly another view on another site I could see?

  96. avatar
    loucon September 28, 2009 at 10:15 am #

    I think you didn’t scroll to the bottom of the web page. You do need to log in to view the entire document, but the first page can be viewed by scrolling all the way down.

  97. avatar
    loucon September 28, 2009 at 10:21 am #

    P.S.
    I apologize for assuming that your reason for posting the link was to proclaim rather than confirm.

  98. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 28, 2009 at 1:47 pm #

    No problemo. Hyperlinks on this site are generally of two types: reference links, and “learn what others are saying” links. I hoped it would be clear from context which is which, but perhaps not.

    Certainly there are many links here that lead to totally fallacious and misinformative web sites.

    I guess I think that folks who are capable of critical thinking can spot crank information a mile away, and the others are already so mired in the crank theories that no warning from me would make any difference.

    I don’t take responsibility for comments except my own. Donofrio moderates his site (holds comments until he approves them) and that gives him the opportunity to mark them up before they appear. I think in most instances moderation is a bad thing, and so I don’t normally do it.

  99. avatar
    Whatever4 September 28, 2009 at 2:55 pm #

    That’s OK, this is a pretty civilized bunch of folks. We actually do like research, otherwise we’d be hanging out somewhere else. (I say “we” since I’ve been lurking for half a year.) The regulars actually spell pretty well, too.

    However — I really really can’t get to that website without going to another computer. Is there any way that someone could put up a screen shot somewhere for a day or two so I could see it?

  100. avatar
    Marie Devine September 29, 2009 at 6:38 pm #

    Charges and evidences, court style, are at http://www.divine-way.com/forgery_evidences_sss_reg_colb_birth_cert_for_obama_impeachment.html

    also at http://www.divine-way.com is a letter to US Attorney for DC, CD Phillips, for Quo Warranto in Donofrio case… it sites 17 things that can be learned by simple identity documents that the president could easily supply.

  101. avatar
    Bob September 29, 2009 at 6:59 pm #

    I blame you, Dr. Conspiracy, for that comment on the Betrayal that linked back to this story.

    But good to know birfers believe in recycling because Marie Devine’s link has all the oldies-but-goodies: selective service registration, Andy Martin, quo warranto, “Dr. Ron Polarik”….

  102. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 29, 2009 at 8:26 pm #

    Oh the infestation of trolls? They are migratory for the most part.

    But I guess the American Grand Jury is scared witless that some of their ilk might come over here and actually read the articles. Sites like that don’t like for certain questions to be asked or certain facts aired.

  103. avatar
    Lamarr01 November 10, 2009 at 10:31 pm #

    The Donofrio case has the best chance of proceeding. It shouldn’t be much of a legal challenge to get an official Certificate of Live Birth since a forgery of one has already been released.

    My personal guess is the real COLB will list:

    Name: Barry Stanley Dunham
    Father: Unknown / Various
    Place of Birth: Molokai Hawaii

  104. avatar
    nBc November 11, 2009 at 12:02 am #

    You are wrong, the same COLB will be released. The fact that someone forged one has no relevance on the prima facie legal nature of Obama’s COLB.