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An interview with Phil Berg

Philip Berg

From the Race 4 2012 blog, comes a new interview with Phil Berg, Obama nemesis attorney. It’s an interesting read. Here are a couple of teasers:

“I think he traveled his entire life on an Indonesian passport”

“But even if he were [born] in Hawaii, he would have had his birth certificate in Kenya.”

The interview, I assume transcribed from a recording, appears to have the occasional misinterpreted word.

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94 Responses to An interview with Phil Berg

  1. avatar
    Saint James February 20, 2010 at 11:12 pm #

    Phil Berg: “if I am wrong: Obama, prove me wrong, and I’ll withdraw my lawsuit. But he hasn’t. And the reason he hasn’t is because he can’t”

    Here we go again! Phil Berg is also like Orly Taitz…They are stupid lawyers! They brought in the lawsuits accusing Obama of everything they thought would stick. They have the burden of proof. Obama does not have to do anything!

  2. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 12:37 am #

    I’ll say it again:
    Conservatives: guilty until proven innocent
    Liberals: innocent until proven guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Besides, the Denialists are not going to let facts get in the way of their beliefs.

  3. avatar
    Saint James February 21, 2010 at 1:10 am #

    Misha,

    THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST STUPID STATEMENT FROM A SUPPOSEDLY LAWYER!

    Phil Berg… “From his time as US Senator forward used a diplomatic passport”

    NO! Phil Berg…a US diplomatic passport is only issued to diplomats and consuls who are US citizens for work-related travels (other countries also have diplomatic passports issued to their own diplomats and consuls). Obama was a senator then therefore a US citizen and had travelled with a US passport.

    EXCEPTION: a diplomatic passport is given to a foreign citizen with no passport of his own, such as an EXILED VIP who lives, by INVITATION in a foreign country.

  4. avatar
    Mary Brown February 21, 2010 at 1:15 am #

    Misha, please come out of your box. I am being driven mad by people on both sides of the political spectrum who cannot see outside of their prejudices. I spent the morning with some very smart, thoughtful conservative women. We discussed without name calling, reference to the tea party movement, to conservatives being guilty until proven innocent or to liberals not loving their country. It is the only way we are going to find our way out of the morass the left and right have created. A pox on both your houses. And the women I was with would probably agree with me. Everyone needs to grow up.

  5. avatar
    Saint James February 21, 2010 at 1:50 am #

    Mary Brown, please cite the prejudices from both sides of the spectrum that is driving you mad and please be specific. I see that the pox recks havoc in your house not mine!
    Who else will agree with you but the women in your house. They might as well be the foxes!

  6. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 2:09 am #

    Mary: I sympathize with you. I am clouded by what was flung in my face in Anchorage. I had so much anti-semitism flung at me in Anchorage, I will never vote GOP again.

    I wrote this before: A minister from Palin’s church said to me “Auschwitz was divine retribution because you people have refused to accept G-d’s only son.” A woman in her congregation told me Jewish people “deserve to suffer.” Evangelicals love Israel, but hate Judaism and Jewish culture.

    And conservatives are trying to drive from office the first black president, by circulating scurrilous rumors. They wink at the anti-abortion violence.

    I am a photographer, and hang with an avant garde crowd. I regularly hear ‘I am tired of Christians.’

  7. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 2:18 am #

    Mary: I mentioned I am a photographer.

    Most of the people I know here are athiests, or Wiccan. My physician ia an atheist. There is a backlash. Philly is 75% registered Democrats. Obama got 80% of the vote in Philly and Pittsburg. And he got 78% of the Jewish vote.

  8. avatar
    dunstvangeet February 21, 2010 at 2:38 am #

    Read the interview. Those weren’t the only idiotic things.

    But between the ages of 18 and 21, Obama would have had to renounce that citizenship with Indonesia and reaffirm any citizenship he had in the United States.

    No, he wouldn’t. That’s just not true. Further, the simple act of living in the United States would be considered a deed worthy enough to keep the United States Citizenship.

    But because he became a natural of Indonesia, he could not have kept his status as natural-born, even if he was natural-born, in Hawaii, which I don’t [believe] he was.

    Yes, he could. In fact, the case of Perkins v. Elg, the same exact case that Berg is referencing when he says that a parent cannot renounce the citizenship of a child, says that they agree with the lower court calling Elg a “Natural Born Citizen”. Elg got Swedish Citizenship before coming back to the United States, and living there.

    Phil Berg continually mistakes the law. It’s nothing new with Birthers, but to make it so blatently (especially since he’s corrected the “He got Indonesian Citizenship which means he renounced his U.S. Citizenship” flaw that he’s been going on about for the last two years) is something interesting.

  9. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 2:43 am #

    They’re all nuts.

  10. avatar
    Lupin February 21, 2010 at 3:28 am #

    Phil Berg is, excuse me, full of sh*t and his ignorance of matters pertaining to international travel and passports male me wonder if he is really that ignorant or just lying through his teeth.

  11. avatar
    Lupin February 21, 2010 at 4:02 am #

    Shorter Berg:

    “Everything was going great until slavery ended.”

  12. avatar
    IheArtObots February 21, 2010 at 5:47 am #

    dunstvangeet: Read the interview.Those weren’t the only idiotic things.
    No, he wouldn’t.That’s just not true.Further, the simple act of living in the United States would be considered a deed worthy enough to keep the United States Citizenship.
    Yes, he could.In fact, the case of Perkins v. Elg, the same exact case that Berg is referencing when he says that a parent cannot renounce the citizenship of a child, says that they agree with the lower court calling Elg a “Natural Born Citizen”.Elg got Swedish Citizenship before coming back to the United States, and living there.Phil Berg continually mistakes the law.It’s nothing new with Birthers, but to make it so blatently (especially since he’s corrected the “He got Indonesian Citizenship which means he renounced his U.S. Citizenship” flaw that he’s been going on about for the last two years) is something interesting.

    Barack should release a copy of his SS-5 application with the Social Security Administration. It was filled out in the mid to late seventies and it will clearly state whether or not he is a U.S. Citizen or a legal alien.

    That’ll shut the Birthers up for good.

  13. avatar
    IheArtObots February 21, 2010 at 6:29 am #

    Saint James: Misha,THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST STUPID STATEMENT FROM A SUPPOSEDLY LAWYER!Phil Berg… “From his time as US Senator forward used a diplomatic passport”NO! Phil Berg…a US diplomatic passport is only issued to diplomats and consuls who are US citizens for work-related travels (other countries also have diplomatic passports issued to their own diplomats and consuls).Obama was a senator then therefore a US citizen and had travelled with a US passport.EXCEPTION: a diplomatic passport is given to a foreign citizen with no passport of his own, such as an EXILED VIP who lives, by INVITATION in a foreign country.

    Phil should have said, “From his time as US Senator forward he used an Official passport.”

    Senators use Official passports when traveling abroad to conduct business on behalf to the U.S.A.

  14. avatar
    IheArtObots February 21, 2010 at 6:51 am #

    dunstvangeet: Read the interview.Those weren’t the only idiotic things.
    No, he wouldn’t.That’s just not true.Further, the simple act of living in the United States would be considered a deed worthy enough to keep the United States Citizenship.
    Yes, he could.In fact, the case of Perkins v. Elg, the same exact case that Berg is referencing when he says that a parent cannot renounce the citizenship of a child, says that they agree with the lower court calling Elg a “Natural Born Citizen”.Elg got Swedish Citizenship before coming back to the United States, and living there.Phil Berg continually mistakes the law.It’s nothing new with Birthers, but to make it so blatently (especially since he’s corrected the “He got Indonesian Citizenship which means he renounced his U.S. Citizenship” flaw that he’s been going on about for the last two years) is something interesting.

    Barry’s father, Lolo Soetoro, was military officer with a foreign government ruled by a dictator. Lolo was ineligible to become an U.S. Citizen.

    Consequently, Barry could only recover his U.S. Citizenship by an Oath of Allegiance before delegated Federal Officer representing the Executive Branch of the U.S. Government, i.e. a Naturalized U.S. Citizen.

    See 8 U.S.C. §1435(a).

  15. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 8:29 am #

    “lying through his teeth.”

    He is lying through his teeth.

  16. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 8:30 am #

    @IheArtObots: crawl back under your rock. Thank you.

  17. avatar
    Scientist February 21, 2010 at 8:47 am #

    Berg says that Manning “interviewed everyone that went to Columbia”. Really? He tracked down the 20,000 or so people who were at Columbia during the time Obama was there and spoke with each one? The plain fact is that there are many students and faculty who remember Obama very well from his time at Columbia, including a former roommate. They have given numerous interviews.

    According to his website, Phil Berg graduated from Temple in 1967. I wonder if you picked a random sample of people who were at Temple during those years if any of them would remember him?

  18. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 8:51 am #

    At the Tea Party convention former Rep. Tom Tancredo opened up the convention with some controversial remarks about the 2008 election. Tancredo said Obama won because “we do not have a civics, literacy test before people can vote.”

    Here is the history of literacy tests.

  19. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 8:58 am #

    Literacy tests did not work for Jews. My grandfather told me after becoming a US citizen, he went to register to vote. The examiner said “what do you see out the window?” The examiner then told him what he missed, so sorry, you can’t vote.

  20. avatar
    kimba February 21, 2010 at 8:59 am #

    No they don’t. You made that up. As a matter of fact, the passport I received at age 16 and have kept current ever since is an Official US passport. Why would Senators need something different? Why do birthers make sh!t up?

  21. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 9:06 am #

    Here’s more on literacy tests.

  22. avatar
    kimba February 21, 2010 at 9:06 am #

    Lolo Soetoro was not Barack’s father. Who ever suggested Lolo Soetoro had any intention of becoming a US citizen? It doesn’t matter whether he was “eligible” or not. He studied in Hawaii on a scholarship from the Indonesian govt. Why are you here making sh!t up? You might be abe to fool a few rubes over at Freep with your nonsense, but not here.

  23. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 9:35 am #

    Kimba: my mother re-married. I took my step-father’s last name, but he never adopted me. It’s a fiction they circulate to smear Obama.

    It did not affect his election, and it will not affect his re-election. There are only about 600K of those nuts.

  24. avatar
    IheArtObots February 21, 2010 at 10:36 am #

    kimba: No they don’t. You made that up. As a matter of fact, the passport I received at age 16 and have kept current ever since is an Official US passport.Why would Senators need something different?Why do birthers make sh!t up?

    FYI

    Offical Passport Cover
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/United_States_passport_-_official_-_biometric.png

    Diplomatic Passport Cover
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/US_Diplomatic_Passport.JPG

    U.S. Passport Cover
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/US_Passport.png

    Indonesian Passport Cover
    http://www.state.gov/cms_images/IndonesiaFraudMontage402_px.gif

    Which cover does your passport look like?

  25. avatar
    BatGuano February 21, 2010 at 11:37 am #

    “The next day was the national Prayer Breakfast — Obama spoke there at the very end, and I’m paraphrasing…but at the end of the speech, he said: No one should question my faith. Then he paused, and he said, or my citizenship.”

    a good example why hearsay testimony is not allowed in court.

  26. avatar
    Lupin February 21, 2010 at 11:48 am #

    “That’ll shut the Birthers up for good.”

    Nothing will shut up that klan of demented hooligans.

  27. avatar
    Lupin February 21, 2010 at 12:11 pm #

    To put Mario’s case in perspective, I will need to take some brain bleach after reading that your DOJ’s new standard policy is that lawyers, who are scum of the earth anyway, and can’t help it, shouldn’t be sanctioned. It’s in their nature, you see.

    Yale Law professor Balkin puts it infinitely better than I could:

    http://balkin.blogspot.com/2010/02/justice-department-will-not-punish-yoo.html

    Mario is a saint.

  28. avatar
    dunstvangeet February 21, 2010 at 1:16 pm #

    Considering he never filed one, because he never lost his citizenship is one problem with your little theory. Perkins v. Elg makes it quite clear that nobody can renounce the citizenship but the person themselves. And if you believe that a 6-year-old would be found to have the specific intent and knowledge to renounce citizenship, you’re more insane than Philip Berg.

    The very act of living in the United States for 11 years before the age of 21 is indication enough that he intended to keep his U.S. Citizenship, no matter what other citizenship he had. It does not matter if he was an Indonesian Citizen, a British Citizen, a Kenyan Citizen, or a Citizen of Krypton. The very fact that he lived in the United States, and continued to do so, meant that he kept his U.S. Citizenship.

    The fact that you do not see that, it’s not there.

    It’s amusing that you think he can produce a document that he doesn’t have, nor is ever required to get, to prove that something happened, to which the very premise of it isn’t even true.

    You’re committing a logical fallacy called Begging the Question. Of course, logical fallacies aren’t uncommon in Birther thinking. Every single birther argument has logical fallacies in it. Some of the more common are begging the question, denying the antecedent, and affirming the consequent.

  29. avatar
    PaulG February 21, 2010 at 1:44 pm #

    God help me, I think I know what the Bot is blathering about. I think ArtieBot has some kind of “new” idea still in the fetal stages of development. I think he’s going to try to argue that if Soetoro was ineligible for citizenship, Ann Dunham automatically loses her citizenship by marrying him. There are a few hurdles he still has to clear in this theory, for example, irrelevance, no proof, and general disinterest.

  30. avatar
    Mary Brown February 21, 2010 at 1:56 pm #

    Number one, I don’t agree with them and that is the point. If we are going to make any changes in this country we have to start with a basic assumption we can learn by listening. That doesn’t mean agreeing or failing to make your points firmly. It does mean having an understanding of others and making point from that basis. Your reply just illustrate what drives me mad. You made the assumption that because I had a discussion I agreed with these women. Wrong.

  31. avatar
    Mary Brown February 21, 2010 at 2:01 pm #

    I have a daughter-in-law who is an atheist but we respect and love each other. I disagree with her totally on that point. I think the minister in Palin’s church is an example of someone who has not studied scripture except to take bits and pieces to create his own reality. It grieves me when anyone, let alone a cleryman, uses Christ to build political power or to demean others.

  32. avatar
    Mary Brown February 21, 2010 at 2:03 pm #

    Try and pass one of the tests they gave in Mississippi.

  33. avatar
    Mary Brown February 21, 2010 at 2:04 pm #

    Amen. I know only one in my church. She won’t speak to me.

  34. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 21, 2010 at 2:18 pm #

    Checking ones facts works for both sides. Score 1 for Sven.

    However, someone applying for a Diplomatic passport has to provide proof of citizenship, just like everyone else (and yes, I checked the details of this on the State Dept. web site). Of course, an existing US Passport of any flavor would suffice for such proof.

  35. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 21, 2010 at 2:25 pm #

    SvenBot: Lolo was ineligible to become an U.S. Citizen.

    That’s right. He had not met the residency requirement.

  36. avatar
    Greg February 21, 2010 at 2:28 pm #

    You don’t have to recover something you never lost.

  37. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 21, 2010 at 2:29 pm #

    The key here is Berg’s use of the word “proof.” It is a theoretical impossibility to prove a true conspiracy theorist wrong, because they just say that the “proof” only proves how deep the conspiracy goes.

  38. avatar
    Saint James February 21, 2010 at 2:36 pm #

    Mary Brown, “Number one, I don’t agree with them and that is the point.”

    Who are you disagreeing with?

    “If we are going to make any changes in this country we have to start with a basic assumption we can learn by listening.”

    I’ve read, listened to, and absorbed as much information as I can thus came with a conclusion that…

    “Phil Berg is also like Orly Taitz…They are stupid lawyers! They brought in the lawsuits accusing Obama of everything they thought would stick. They have the burden of proof. Obama does not have to do anything!”…and…

    “NO! Phil Berg…a US diplomatic passport is only issued to diplomats and consuls who are US citizens for work-related travels (other countries also have diplomatic passports issued to their own diplomats and consuls). Obama was a senator then therefore a US citizen and had travelled with a US passport.

    EXCEPTION: a diplomatic passport is given to a foreign citizen with no passport of his own, such as an EXILED VIP who lives, by INVITATION in a foreign country.”

    So, what part of my comment made you mad?
    You subtly interjected “A pox on both your houses.”, deserves this response… “I see that the pox recks havoc in your house not mine!
    Who else will agree with you but the women in your house. They might as well be the foxes!”

    You make it appear as if you’re one person looking in suggesting for “both houses” to sort out their prejudices yet you seem to have forgotten to check if your own house is also loaded with prejudice.

  39. avatar
    kimba February 21, 2010 at 2:55 pm #

    Doesn’t matter what mine looks like. You have no proof that Barack Obama has or used a passport other than a US passport. And adding the link to a photo of an Indonesian passport simply exposes your bias. You have made up your mind the facts about Barack Obama and set about finding photos that support your conclusion.

  40. avatar
    kimba February 21, 2010 at 3:00 pm #

    Nothing will shut you people up. You’ve always got some excuse, or you’ll circle back around and pick up one of the debunked myths left lying in the mud and bring it back as if it’s shiney and brand new. Happens every day in birtherville. Look at every single thread on RSOL. Each and every one contains a post about Kenya granny, how things “must have been” in Indonesia, travel to Pakistan. Obama posted his COLB on line and allowed at least factcheck to examine it, the state of Hawaii officially confirmed he was born in Hawaii. Two contemporaneous birth announcement appeared in the local papers ( discovered in print by birthers). If that didn’t satisfy you, there is nothing that will satisfy you.

  41. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 3:05 pm #

    “If that didn’t satisfy you, there is nothing that will satisfy you.”

    Two white parents will.

  42. avatar
    Scientist February 21, 2010 at 3:18 pm #

    IheArtObots: Which cover does your passport look like?

    Real Murricans don’t have passports, because there is no good reason to ever leave the USA!!!

  43. avatar
    Saint James February 21, 2010 at 3:47 pm #

    IheArtObots,

    Phil Berg: “so I think that goes along with the fact that he probably uses his Indonesian passport and from his time as US Senator forward used a diplomatic passport,”

    Indeed, Phil should have said, “From his time as US Senator forward he used an Official passport.”

    Let’s not get sidetracked here to argue if Obama used Diplomatic or Official passport.
    Phil Berg’s premise is that Obama used Indonesian passport all this time up until he became a senator where he switched to using the Official passport. Therefore, Obama was an Indonesian citizen then became a US citizen when he bacame a senator.

    If this premise is actually a FACT, then there must a record with the State Department which Phil Berg can’t even show. Also understand that the State Department was headed by Condoleeza Rice, a Republican who could have easily accessed Obama’s record to disqualify him from becoming a US senator. Obama must have been a US citizen for nine (9) years to qualify to run as a US senator.

  44. avatar
    BatGuano February 21, 2010 at 5:20 pm #

    ….. virginity comes to mind.

  45. avatar
    BatGuano February 21, 2010 at 5:29 pm #

    ….. and 10points to the good doctor for pointing it out.

  46. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 21, 2010 at 5:35 pm #

    We also have the US State Department filing the following brief in the case of Strunk v Department of State:

    To the extent this paragraph alleges that President Obama is not a natural-born citizen of the United States or that President Obama is or ever was a citizen of Indonesia, those allegations are denied.

    See: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/04/department-of-state-denies-birther-allegations

    So the US Department of State has in federal court and in writing, denied all this hokum already.

  47. avatar
    Saint James February 21, 2010 at 6:22 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy, thank you so much for pointing out Strunk v Dept of State. Now I can use it against Lord Voldemort and his Deatheaters.

  48. avatar
    IheArtObots February 21, 2010 at 7:07 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Checking ones facts works for both sides. Score 1 for Sven.However, someone applying for a Diplomatic passport has to provide proof of citizenship, just like everyone else (and yes, I checked the details of this on the State Dept. web site). Of course, an existing US Passport of any flavor would suffice for such proof.

    Diplomatic Passports are issued to U.S. Citizens and non-citizens. A passport merely identifies a person, their citizenship and their right to obtain services through the country issuing the passport.

    Whether or not a Diplomatic Passport holder has Diplomatic immunity is prearranged with the issuance of a Visa from the country the person is traveling to.

    A good example is Angelia Jolie after she was named a US envoy to the UN. She was issued a Diplomatic Passport. The non-citizen children she adopted with foreign citizenships were issued U.S. Diplomatic Passports, as well.

  49. avatar
    kimba February 21, 2010 at 8:17 pm #

    Angelina Jolie is a High Commission for Refugees for the United Nations Goodwill Ambassador. She’s not a US envoy to the UN. She was not appointed to the role by the US. She represents the UN not the US. She’s not a US diplomat. Now that I know you’re just another Sven sockpuppet, I won’t respond to you again.

  50. avatar
    Bovril February 21, 2010 at 8:23 pm #

    Actually Artie old chap, utter bollocks I’m afraid re Diplomatic passports.

    To use your Angelina Jolie example

    For passports AJ is NOT a US envoy to the UN, she is a UN Goodwill Ambassador, bugger all to do with the US and all to do with the UN

    UN Goodwill Ambassadors are not issued US Diplomatic Passports

    A UN Goodwill Ambassador MAY be issued a UN laissez-passer as part of their work, it is NOT a diplomatic passport nor does it automatically grant diplomatic privileges.

    On adoption her children would have been issued an IR-3 or IR-4 visa to go along with their native country passport…..No Diplomatic passport…

    If they have no local passport and if their country allows it, the local US Embassy or Consulate CAN issue a one shot laissez-passer….again NO Diplomatic Passport

    Next………..

  51. avatar
    Saint James February 21, 2010 at 8:50 pm #

    IheArtObots,
    Like what I’ve already stated.

    “EXCEPTION: a diplomatic passport is given to a foreign citizen with no passport of his own, such as an EXILED VIP who lives, by INVITATION in a foreign country.”

    Thanks for the info about A. Jolie, but the bone of contention here is what Phil Berg claims…that President Obama used Indonesian passport all his life. Mr. Obama only used diplomatic passport when he became a US senator.

    Granting that Phil Berg meant Official passport (according to you), the assumption is totally WRONG! (I already explained why it’s wrong).

  52. avatar
    Greg February 21, 2010 at 9:36 pm #

    Offical Passport Cover
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/United_States_passport_-_official_-_biometric.png

    Hey, Sven, I see you CAN show evidence when it suits you.

    Where’s the evidence that Obama renounced his citizenship between the ages of 6-10?

    Where’s the evidence that he returned to the US as a refugee?

    In fact, where’s the evidence of any of your baseless charges?

  53. avatar
    gwen February 21, 2010 at 10:06 pm #

    A child cannot renounce his citizenship, nor can his parents. He would have to be of legal age (18) before he could renounce his citizenship. Just the fact that he was born on US soil makes him a citizen, his parents could have been born on Jupiter, and taken him back the next day. Just the fact of his birth on US soil makes him a US citizen. I’ve had friends and family born in the US to foreign citizens, raised in other countries return to the US to live.

  54. avatar
    misha February 21, 2010 at 11:56 pm #

    When I was in Israel, I was asked to serve in the IDF. There is a law, that serving in a foreign army can cause loss of citizenship. So I went to the US Embassy and spoke with a legal affairs officer. He told me the only way I could lose citizenship, would be to formally renounce it in writing. A 10-year-old cannot.

    Sorry, birthers.

  55. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion February 22, 2010 at 12:09 am #

    Saint James: Dr. Conspiracy, thank you so much for pointing out Strunk v Dept of State. Now I can use it against Lord Voldemort and his Deatheaters.

    I wouldn’t bother. I mentioned the DoS reply in Strunk to Philip Berg’s “Paralegal”, and she dismissed it out of hand. No sense in getting the facts get in the way of their story I guess…..

  56. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion February 22, 2010 at 12:11 am #

    C) All the above

  57. avatar
    Lupin February 22, 2010 at 1:45 am #

    Mary: I would have a lot more sympathy for the religious conservatives if they came out en masse and denounced the wingnuts, as indeed the GOP expelled the Birchers in the 1960s.

    People complain that the Muslim community isn’t loud enough when denouncing Muslim terrorists.

    I would similarly complain that until I see the religious community take a strong, vocal stand against the lunatics and clean their own house, they will remain tarred with that foul brush.

  58. avatar
    Lupin February 22, 2010 at 1:48 am #

    Correction:

    Two white CHRISTIAN parents.

  59. avatar
    G February 22, 2010 at 2:14 am #

    Lupin: Mary: I would have a lot more sympathy for the religious conservatives if they came out en masse and denounced the wingnuts, as indeed the GOP expelled the Birchers in the 1960s.People complain that the Muslim community isn’t loud enough when denouncing Muslim terrorists.
    I would similarly complainthat until I see the religious community take a strong, vocal stand against the lunatics and clean their own house, they will remain tarred with that foul brush.

    Amen to that!

  60. avatar
    IheArtObots February 22, 2010 at 7:15 am #

    Saint James: IheArtObots,
    Like what I’ve already stated.“EXCEPTION: a diplomatic passport is given to a foreign citizen with no passport of his own, such as an EXILED VIP who lives, by INVITATION in a foreign country.”Thanks for the info about A. Jolie, but the bone of contention here is what Phil Berg claims…that President Obama used Indonesian passport all his life. Mr. Obama only used diplomatic passport when he became a US senator.Granting that Phil Berg meant Official passport (according to you), the assumption is totally WRONG! (I already explained why it’s wrong).

    Alright, let’s try this.

    A member of Senate (Legislative Branch) receives approval from the Senate Leadership for an itinerary and taxpayer funds for travel to a foreign land to conduct business on behalf of the U.S. A Senate staffer submits the name(s) of the Senator and his staff to the DoS to obtain a Official Passport(s).

    The DoS is an agency of the Executive Branch. Do you believe the Executive Branch can interfere, obstruct or inhibit a member of the Legislative Branch from performing his duty? Wouldn’t the Executive Branch issue the Official Passport to a member of the Legislative without a background investigation. Isn’t it up to the Legislative Branch to investigate its own membership?

    It’s ridiculous to think a passport clerk would have put a stop on Obama receiving his Official Passport because of a background check. Once the itinerary and funding is approved for foreign travel, the Official Passport is automatic for a sitting Congressman.

  61. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 22, 2010 at 8:02 am #

    Sven: It’s ridiculous to think a passport clerk would have put a stop on Obama receiving his Official Passport because of a background check.

    That’s how the process works. Specifics of the process in the Foreign Affairs Manual are not available online, but I remember reading once a DoS department that required official passport applications to be accompanied by proof of citizenship, just like all others. The regulations specifically require passports only for citizens.

    You’re imagining things.

  62. avatar
    Black Lion February 22, 2010 at 8:26 am #

    But even Sven theory has been figments of his imagination. He has never supplied proof of his theories. He has been pushing the so called diplomatic consular passport theory for over a year without supplying any proof. The best was when he indicated that Obama needed to go to the US Embassy in HI. Classic. All of the birthers never do enough research before coming up with their innane theories, that is why it is so easy to debunk them. Berg and Sven would have to believe that somehow Obama lost his US citizenship and became a citizen of Indonesia, even though Obama had a US passport when he left HI as a 6 year old and returned to HI in the gate for US citizens (according to his book).

    What is even more interesting is how Berg could explain how Obama, not being born in Indonesia, could get a Indonesian passport. He never showed us the requirements for getting one. He assumes that it is similar to the US process. I am sure that even if Obama had been adopted the Indonesian govt would not have just issued a passport for Obama without him having to prove that he wa born there.

    And Berg doesn’t explain how Obama could get a drivers license, SS#, and all of the other things that US citizens get if he could not prove that he was a US citizen. I am sure a Indonesian passport would not hav worked. And when Obama traveled to Europe as an American, how exactly did that work?

    Anyway neither Berg or Sven has ever supplied any proof to support their theories, so we are just left with their works of fiction. However I am looking forward to Sven or one of his alter egos coming up with a new chapter in the “Young Barry Chronicles”…

  63. avatar
    Expelliarmus February 22, 2010 at 8:42 am #

    There is no “background” investigation to get a passport – but everyone must provide proof of identity and citizenship to get a passport. A US Senator, by law, must be a US Citizen, so there is no such thing as an “official” passport that would be issued to members of Congress that would somehow waive the ordinary documentation process required to get a passport. Of course, since Obama has had a US passport since childhood, it would merely be a matter of renewing his existing passport if and when it came up for renewal.

  64. avatar
    Lupin February 22, 2010 at 9:15 am #

    Re: “Birtchers”

    Very interesting links. The similarities were obvious (to me) from the start.

    Unfortunate today’s GOP doesn’t have the spine and the morals of their grandparents. The Barry Goldwaters and William F Buckleys of yesterday are gone. The current GOPers have devolved into little greedy weasels.

  65. avatar
    IheArtObots February 22, 2010 at 10:36 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Sven: It’s ridiculous to think a passport clerk would have put a stop on Obama receiving his Official Passport because of a background check.That’s how the process works. Specifics of the process in the Foreign Affairs Manual are not available online, but I remember reading once a DoS department that required official passport applications to be accompanied by proof of citizenship, just like all others. The regulations specifically require passports only for citizens.You’re imagining things.

    Members of Congress have immunity when traveling to preform their official duties. A Member cannot be denied access or deterred from gathering information on foreign lands when it is in the best interests of the U.S. Government.

    During the campaign, Obama travel to Germany to give a political speech and then toured a military hospital. He had to tour the base or he would not have been allowed to use his Official Passport.

    If you’ll recall, the base commander did not want the sick and injured troops to be used as political props. But, he could not deny a sitting Senator access to information and inspection. He did deny Obama’s campaign personnel and volunteers from access.

  66. avatar
    Greg February 22, 2010 at 10:50 am #

    Alright, let’s try this.

    How about instead of engaging in thought experiments, you start putting up evidence of any of your half-baked theories?

    I’ve heard tell of how, when people get stoned, they’ll often theorize about the nature of the universe. Our entire universe is just a speck of sand on the beach on another world in another universe, they’ll say. At this point, their notions are better supported than yours!

  67. avatar
    Black Lion February 22, 2010 at 10:55 am #

    But your leap from that so called issue to try and imply that Obama does not have a US passport or did not at the time is crazy. He would have been allowed to visit the troops and do whatever he wanted with a US passport. Nothing you have suggested has even come close to showing that the President never had a US passport. He had one leaving the US for Indonesia in 1967. He had one when he came back to Hawaii to live with his grandparents. He had one when traveling through Europe. He had a US passport when visiting Pakistan in 1981. He had one has a Senator when visiting Germany. He had one when elected President. You know how I know? Because he was born in HI and is an American citizen. You have provided us with countless hours of humorous reading about how possibility an American citizen could be transformed into a Indonesian refugee or how there were imaginary ARO’s that were specific for Indonesian refugees and would somehow get them SS#’s at a time when having a SS# was not vital for minors of Obama’s age. However we all know you will continue to somehow ignore the facts and post ridiculous theories. So we all look forward to the next “Impossible Mission” of young Barry and his mysterious helpers….You must be the late Bruce Geller back to write a new episode…Cue the Lalo Shrifin music…

  68. avatar
    Lupin February 22, 2010 at 11:02 am #

    “A Member cannot be denied access or deterred from gathering information on foreign lands when it is in the best interests of the U.S. Government.”

    I think you mean, “but only on US soil (i.e.: embassies) or lands leased to the U.S. (e.g.: military bases).”

    Not foreign lands.

  69. avatar
    IheArtObots February 22, 2010 at 11:22 am #

    Black Lion: But your leap from that so called issue to try and imply that Obama does not have a US passport or did not at the time is crazy.He would have been allowed to visit the troops and do whatever he wanted with a US passport.Nothing you have suggested has even come close to showing that the President never had a US passport.He had one leaving the US for Indonesia in 1967.He had one when he came back to Hawaii to live with his grandparents.He had one when traveling through Europe.He had a US passport when visiting Pakistan in 1981.He had one has a Senator when visiting Germany.He had one when elected President.You know how I know?Because he was born in HI and is an American citizen.You have provided us with countless hours of humorous reading about how possibility an American citizen could be transformed into a Indonesian refugee or how there were imaginary ARO’s that were specific for Indonesian refugees and would somehow get them SS#’s at a time when having a SS# was not vital for minors of Obama’s age.However we all know you will continue to somehow ignore the facts and post ridiculous theories.So we all look forward to the next “Impossible Mission” of young Barry and his mysterious helpers….You must be the late Bruce Geller back to write a new episode…Cue the Lalo Shrifin music…

    My biggest fear is that my leader and spiritual guide, Sven Magnussen, won’t get credit for his “Obama is an Indonesian Refugee” theory.

    Sven, you should trademark the phrase or something.

  70. avatar
    SvenMagnussen February 22, 2010 at 11:57 am #

    IheArtObots:
    My biggest fear is that my leader and spiritual guide, Sven Magnussen, won’t get credit for his “Obama is an Indonesian Refugee” theory.Sven, you should trademark the phrase or something.

    Hey, Art, this is interesting.

    When Barack got his SSN …

    In 1976, the Suharto regime was challenged in the province of Aceh by the formation of the Free Aceh Movement, or GAM, who demanded independence from the unitary state. Suharto quickly authorized troops to put down the rebellion, forcing several of its leaders into exile in Sweden. Prolonged fighting between GAM and the Indonesian military and police led Suharto to declare martial law in the province, by naming Aceh a “military operational area” (DOM) in 1990.

  71. avatar
    BatGuano February 22, 2010 at 12:13 pm #

    so…… Suharto knew the only way to quash the rebellion was for a 15 year old kid in Hawai’i to get a SS# so he could work at Baskin-Robbins ???

    makes sense.

  72. avatar
    Lupin February 22, 2010 at 12:15 pm #

    A “theory” isn’t just any kind of crap you pull out of your ass, it’s got to be based on some kind of evidence.

    (My theory that you are a demented goat suffering from the last stages of venereal disease is appealing on the surface, but not backed by tangible evidence.)

    We know for a fact that Obama visited France as an American without a visa (which an Indonesian or a political refugee would have had to obtain), hence Sven’s theory is a pile of smoking manure.

  73. avatar
    Rickey February 22, 2010 at 12:26 pm #

    An application for an “Official Passport” is made using the same DS-11 application form used for regular passports, which means that proof of citizenship must accompany the application.

    Furthermore, whenever someone applies for a U.S. passport (Official or otherwise) the State Department forwards the applicant’s SSN to the Treasury Department and the State Department “checks Social Security Numbers against lists of persons ineligible or potentially ineligible to receive a U.S. passport.”

    The bottom line: Obama could not have obtained an Official passport if he were not a U.S. citizen.

  74. avatar
    Scientist February 22, 2010 at 12:28 pm #

    The CIA had the young Obama put down the Aceh rebellion as training for his later job of winning the Cold War by arming and training the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan.

  75. avatar
    Black Lion February 22, 2010 at 2:12 pm #

    But how is that relevant to Obama? He had already returned to Hawaii on his US passport in 1971. So how is an uprising 5 years after he left Indonesia relevant? But thanks for that information. Unrest in Indonesia is even more evidence that Obama’s mother would have never allowed her son to have “renounced” his US citizenship. She would have wanted him to be able to return to his homeland of the US at any time without any problems…

  76. avatar
    Black Lion February 22, 2010 at 2:16 pm #

    We all give Sven all of the “credit” he deserves for his so called Indonesian refugee theory. You know why? Because in the year or so he has been pushing it, he has never provided any evidence to support it. Not one piece. You would have thought your “spiritual guide” would have at least contacted Lucas Smith so that he could forge some Indonesian adoption paperwork, a SS-5, and maybe even a Indonesian passport. At least then Sven would have made it more interesting. But to only come up with unsubstantiated speculation we want Sven to own that 100%…

  77. avatar
    IheArtObots February 22, 2010 at 3:36 pm #

    Rickey: An application for an “Official Passport” is made using the same DS-11 application form used for regular passports, which means that proof of citizenship must accompany the application.Furthermore, whenever someone applies for a U.S. passport (Official or otherwise) the State Department forwards the applicant’s SSN to the Treasury Department and the State Department “checks Social Security Numbers against lists of persons ineligible or potentially ineligible to receive a U.S. passport.”
    The bottom line: Obama could not have obtained an Official passport if he were not a U.S. citizen.

    He’s a Naturalized citizen.

    The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA), also Simpson-Mazzoli Act (Pub.L. 99-603, 100 Stat. 3359, signed by President Ronald Reagan on November 6, 1986) is an Act of Congress which reformed United States immigration law. The Act made it illegal to knowingly hire or recruit illegal immigrants (immigrants who do not possess lawful work authorization), required employers to attest to their employees’ immigration status, and granted amnesty to certain illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously. The Act also granted a path towards legalization to certain agricultural seasonal workers and immigrants who had been continuously and illegally present in the United States since January 1, 1982.

  78. avatar
    Black Lion February 22, 2010 at 3:41 pm #

    Again how does this apply to natural born US citizens? I mean people born in HI that could not have renounced their US citizenship nor become an Indonesian citizen? You may want to go over to Pat’s badfiction blog to see how your so called theory has been throughly refuted…

  79. avatar
    BatGuano February 22, 2010 at 3:57 pm #

    Black Lion: But how is that relevant to Obama?

    easily.

    John F Kennedy ( President in ’61 ) = “Jack” Kennedy = Jack

    Kenyan father = british = monarch = lord

    “Jack Lord” was the ” Supreme Authority ” on “Hawaii 5-0″ whose “3”rd season was in ’71.

    6+1+5+0+3+71= 87

    duh.

  80. avatar
    Scientist February 22, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    Sven-I was a scientific “consultant” for the Agency for many years and I can tell you that you are barking up the wrong tree. When we recruited him as a young student to run our ops with the Afghan mujaheddin (because of the Farsi he learned in Indonesia) Langley sent document teams to scrub all the files in Washington, Honolulu, Jakarta and Nairobi. Those guys are pros, Sven. You could get all the files you so eagerly seek and they will be clean as a whistle. Your quest is hopeless.

    I am only disclosing this now that I am safely in Beijing running cyber warfare for the People’s Liberation Army. What can I say-I have a thing for Asian women and Chinese food….

  81. avatar
    SvenMagnussen February 22, 2010 at 4:05 pm #

    One of BHO II SSN’s had an address listed at his Senate office building in 2008.

    Not only do we need to see his SS-5 for 1975-76, we need to see his SS-5 for 2008.

    And his DS-11.

    After Obama was elected to the United States Senate in 2005, he moved into an apartment at 300 Massachusetts Ave NW; the Social Security number attached to that address is the 042 one. Yet, three years later, Obama used a different Social Security number for an address listed as: 713 Hart Senate Office Building. This was the address of his United States Senate office. This Social Security number began with 282 and was verified by the government in 2008.

    http://www.westernjournalism.com/?page_id=3255

  82. avatar
    SFJeff February 22, 2010 at 4:21 pm #

    “During the campaign, Obama travel to Germany to give a political speech and then toured a military hospital. He had to tour the base or he would not have been allowed to use his Official Passport.”

    Did I miss something? Senator Obama cancelled his visit to the Army military hospital in 2008.

    “If you’ll recall, the base commander did not want the sick and injured troops to be used as political props”

    Show me an article that states that? First of all, it wasn’t the base commander, it was a Pentagon spokesman. Secondly they pointed out it was against Pentagon policy to visit any bases for a political campaign- not some tripe about exposing sick and wounded

    “The Pentagon in a statement cited longstanding Defense Department policy that prohibits military personnel or facilities from association with partisan political campaigns and elections”

    Another falsehood promoted by the Anti Obama crowd.

  83. avatar
    G February 22, 2010 at 4:21 pm #

    ROTFL!

  84. avatar
    SFJeff February 22, 2010 at 4:22 pm #

    I think Batguano has finally figured Sven out

  85. avatar
    SFJeff February 22, 2010 at 4:27 pm #

    “He’s a Naturalized citizen.”

    Easy enough then- just provide the proof that would stand up in court or at least on Fox News.

  86. avatar
    G February 22, 2010 at 4:30 pm #

    LOL! That was good. ;)

  87. avatar
    Black Lion February 22, 2010 at 4:51 pm #

    Thanks…Now Sven makes some sense…I was begining to wonder….

  88. avatar
    richCares February 22, 2010 at 11:46 pm #

    “Not only do we need to see his SS-5 ”'”

    Who is this “we” you mention, have you got a mouse in your pocket?

  89. avatar
    Mary Brown February 23, 2010 at 12:04 am #

    And I know someone who was in the same position.

  90. avatar
    Mary Brown February 23, 2010 at 12:11 am #

    Who are “the religious community” you are talking about. The folks like Palin and Manning I presume. Maybe you are not listening. The great majority of those of us in “the religious community” abhor these people. No minister I am acquainted with thinks these folks are anything but nuts. My religious community and those around me share that opinion. The problem is the same problem most moderate Moslems have. Moderate people are not heard. Maybe we are not interesting enough. Or maybe the prejudices of bigoted people apply both ways.

  91. avatar
    Rickey February 23, 2010 at 12:32 am #

    “Western Journalism” is an insult to real journalists everywhere. The posting repeats the lie that Obama used the name “Barry Soetoro” when he attended Occidental College, in spite of the fact that numerous faculty members and former students at Occidental have confirmed that he was known only as “Barry Obama” to them.

    And, as noted elsewhere, the databases showing multiple SSNs are notoriously unreliable and are not evidence of anything.

  92. avatar
    Rickey February 23, 2010 at 4:58 pm #

    IheArtObots says:

    He’s a Naturalized citizen.

    And you evidence of that is…?

    So we’re supposed to believe that when Obama applied for an “Official” passport after he was elected to the Senate, he provided evidence to the Bush State Department that he is a naturalized citizen, yet no one remembered this when he announced his candidacy for president?

  93. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 27, 2010 at 10:04 pm #

    Barack Obama might have a Kenyan Birth registration. There is a provision in Kenyan law for a child of a Kenyan national to be registered even if born overseas (at least since 1968). Perhaps there was something in 1961 under British rule.

    10A.(1) A person notifying the birth outside Kenya of a child who is a citizen of Kenya shall produce to the registrar the following evidence of the birth –

    (a) firstly, either –

    (i) a certificate of birth issued by the appropriate authority in the country abroad, with an English translation of the certificate if it is not in English;

    (ii) if certificates of birth are not issued in the country abroad, a certificate of the birth given by the doctor, midwife or other person who attended the birth; and

    (b) secondly, either –

    (i) if there is a Kenya Mission in the country abroad, a certificate of a member of the Mission that he is satisfied, from evidence produced to him and inquiries which he has made, that the particulars of the birth given in the birth certificate are correct; or

    (ii) if there is no Kenya Mission in the country, such other evidence as the registrar may require;

    and the person notifying the birth shall certify in writing to the registrar the correctness and authenticity of the evidence which he produces.

    (2) Upon receiving the evidence required by subsection (1) of this section to be produced, the registrar shall forthwith enter the prescribed particulars of the birth in the register of births occurring outside Kenya.