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Crimes against democracy

Angry Dr. Conspiracy

Accurate information is essential for the voters

I feel very strongly that any attempt to mislead the public for political gain is a crime against democracy. Our Constitution protects most speech including outright lies, but just because speech is legal does not mean that it is moral. Accurate information is essential for the voters in a democracy to make informed and intelligent decisions.

Some happier with a Taliban-style government

A fair number of folks that I’ve run into in this birther business, while happy to use the trappings of the American government  (the US Flag, the Constituti0n, bald eagles, and other symbols), do not really believe in democracy, and certainly not in democratic elections. They would, I think, be happier with a Taliban-style government, only replacing Islamic fundamentalism with their own brand. They have no compunction against using misleading and outright false speech to further their anti-democratic ends.

This brings me to the particular offense that prompted this rant. It comes from one of those birther blogs: Obama Release Your Records. Here’s the quote:

It’s also significant that the AP [Associated Press], which has stated publicly that the president’s “birth certificate” has been made public even though the image of the document posted online actually is a “certification of live birth,” which under Hawaiian procedures was available to those not born in the state, reported on Vitter’s comments.

That’s a damned lie

This is a damnable attempt to deceive the reader and to attribute this lie to a responsible news service, the Associated Press. What did the AP actually say? Look at what is quoted: “birth certificate” and “certification of live birth”. Well yes, they did say that. What the AP did not say, imply or hint, and never will because it is not true, is: “under Hawaiian procedures was available to those not born in the state.” That’s a lie. It is an intentional lie. It is an intentional attempt to trick the reader with false context. It assumes that people who read it are stupid.

Do you consider yourself stupid?

If you trust Obama Release Your Records for information, you most certainly are dumber than a fence post. It is not me that has called you stupid; it’s Obama Release Your Records. Does what Obama Release Your Records thinks of you make you angry? It made me angry.

88 Responses to Crimes against democracy

  1. avatar
    James July 13, 2010 at 6:00 pm #

    Bombshell!
    Brand new news article: Obama was born in Kenya and has a different middle name:
    http://www.thecitizen.co.tz/magazines/32-political-platform/2708-zanzibar-could-reverse-trend-to-have-president-from-pemba.html
    —–
    For more than 200 years US citizen could not pick a president who has roots outside the country. This might… have been the result of racism or belief that a person other than original’ US citizen was capable of effectively leading the powerful nation and help it to maintain its values.

    But after political changes globally, and strengthening of democracy, things have changed in the US. We witnessed last year a senator with his origins from east Africa, Barack Abdallah Husein Obama, becoming the first black US president. He won the race on Democrat ticket and was sworn on January 20, 2009 as US president.

  2. avatar
    Don Draper July 13, 2010 at 6:00 pm #

    If Barry Soetoro would release the details of his adoption and subsequent dissolution of adoption, then a lot of confusion would be cleared up.

    §338-20.5 Adoption; foreign born persons. (a) The department of health shall establish a Hawaii certificate of birth for a person born in a foreign country and for whom a final decree of adoption has been entered in a court of competent jurisdiction in Hawaii, when it receives the following:

    (1) A properly certified copy of the adoption decree, or certified abstract thereof on a form approved by the department; and

    (2) A copy of any investigatory report and recommendation which may have been prepared by the director of social services; and

    (3) A report on a form to be approved by the department of health setting forth the following:

    (A) Date of assumption of custody;

    (B) Sex;

    (C) Color or race;

    (D) Approximate age of child;

    (E) Name and address of the person or persons adopting said child;

    (F) Name given to child by adoptive parent or parents;

    (G) True or probable country of birth.

    The true or probable country of birth shall be known as the place of birth, and the date of birth shall be determined by approximation. This report shall constitute an original certificate of birth; and

    (4) A request that a new certificate of birth be established.

    (b) After preparation of the new certificate of birth in the new name of the adopted person, the department of health shall seal and file the certified copy of the adoptive decree, the investigatory report and recommendation of the director of human services if any, the report constituting the original certificate of birth, and the request for a new certificate of birth. The sealed documents may be opened by the department only by an order of a court of record or when requested in accordance with section 578-14.5 or 578-15. The new certificate of birth shall show the true or probable foreign country of birth, and that the certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child for whom it is issued or for the adoptive parents. [L 1979, c 203, §3; am L 1990, c 338, §3]

  3. avatar
    Rickey July 13, 2010 at 6:15 pm #

    Don Draper:If Barry Soetoro would release the details of his adoption and subsequent dissolution of adoption, then a lot of confusion would be cleared up.

    Who is Barry Soetoro, and how do we contact him to ask him to release his adoption records?

    I am a private investigator, and I can’t find a record of a single person with the surname “Soetoro” anywhere in the United States.

  4. avatar
    bob July 13, 2010 at 6:15 pm #

    James: Rerun postings don’t make look smarter, or your article any more true.

    Don: There’s no evidence of an adoption (Hawaiian or otherwise).

  5. avatar
    Rickey July 13, 2010 at 6:24 pm #

    James: Bombshell!
    Brand new news article: Obama was born in Kenya and has a different middle name

    That’s some “bombshell,” James.

    First of all, the article doesn’t say that Obama was born in Kenya, it says that he has “origins from east Africa.” We all know that Obama’s father was from Kenya, hence his Kenyan origins.

    Second, the article is inherently unreliable about Obama’s full name, since the author didn’t even spell “Hussein” correctly.

    Third, the article is flat-out wrong when it claims “For more than 200 years US citizen could not pick a president who has roots outside the country.” Many Presidents have had “roots” outside the country (including Andrew Jackson, neither of whose parents were born in the United States).

    Another James fail.

  6. avatar
    Keith July 13, 2010 at 6:26 pm #

    Be careful, Doc. This almost sounds like an opening gambit for a new blog campaign. Unlike the short time span of OCT (supposed to be a few months distraction, wasn’t it?) “Democracy Conspiracy Theories” could be a lifetime commitment.

    A starters kit of central themes:

    * Anti-democratic fraud like your quoted article or Jan Brewers ‘beheadings in Arizona’
    * Evisceration of the American education system, once the envy of the world
    * Evisceration of the American scientific community, once the envy of the world
    * Media run false flag operations like the Tea Party movement.

  7. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP July 13, 2010 at 7:24 pm #

    lmao. Just more proof that no matter what Obama gives them, they’ll just insist that there’s more out there they haven’t gotten yet.

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 13, 2010 at 7:32 pm #

    Don (sven) Draper: If Barry Soetoro would release the details of his adoption and subsequent dissolution of adoption, then a lot of confusion would be cleared up

    You were aware that the US Department of State has denied that there was any adoption? You’d think they would know.

    To the extent this paragraph alleges that Lolo Soetoro is or ever was President Obama’s father by birth or adoption, that allegation is denied.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/strunk-answer.pdf

  9. avatar
    richCares July 13, 2010 at 7:32 pm #

    James, James, James, alway posting links to silly articles. These get you really excited don’t they? Your bathroom must have plenty of white spots on the wall. Be carefull. they may put your striaght jacket back on.

  10. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 7:34 pm #

    Rickey: Who is Barry Soetoro, and how do we contact him to ask him to release his adoption records?I am a private investigator, and I can’t find a record of a single person with the surname “Soetoro” anywhere in the United States.

    Me too. I went to Superpages people search. I typed in Soetoro for the entire US, and it returned zero.

  11. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 7:44 pm #

    James: Bombshell!Brand new news article: Obama was born in Kenya and has a different middle name:

    James: let me give you some sage advice.

    – take Xanax
    – drink less coffee
    – get help
    – eat an Alice B. Toklas brownie

    Gertrude Stein and Toklas were both Jewish – yes!!

  12. avatar
    Slartibartfast July 13, 2010 at 7:47 pm #

    Doc,

    Great article. I, too, find hypocrisy masquerading as patriotism particularly odious.

  13. avatar
    Arthur July 13, 2010 at 7:54 pm #

    Dr. C.:

    I agree that “any attempt to mislead the public for political gain is a crime against democracy.” However, it appears that once someone has been convinced by misleading or false information, it’s extremely difficult to alter his or her convictions. This afternoon, NPR’s “Talk of the Nation” devoted a 30 minute segment to this issue, explaining that “new research suggests that misinformed people rarely change their minds when presented with the facts — and often become even more attached to their beliefs. The finding raises questions about a key principle of a strong democracy: that a well-informed electorate is best.”

    Here is the link for those who wish to listen to the entire segment, http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128490874

  14. avatar
    Rickey July 13, 2010 at 7:58 pm #

    misha:
    Gertrude Stein and Toklas were both Jewish – yes!!

    Also, the world’s funniest comedians are Jewish. I wonder if birthers ever have a good laugh?

  15. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 8:14 pm #

    Rickey: Also, the world’s funniest comedians are Jewish. I wonder if birthers ever have a good laugh?

    The best comedian ever was Myron Cohen, who started out as a salesman in the schmata trade.

    Beggar: “Alms for the poor, alms for the poor.”
    Passerby: “Here’s one kopek.”
    Beggar: “That’s all?!”
    Passerby: “I had a bad week.”
    Beggar: “So, if you had a bad week, why should I suffer?”

  16. avatar
    James July 13, 2010 at 8:39 pm #

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBMQO-YkmJE
    U.S. Senator supports Obama Birth Certificate Lawsuits

  17. avatar
    Ellid July 13, 2010 at 8:46 pm #

    If AMC is so desperate for publicity that they’re letting this “Don Draper” make an ass of himself on the blogs, Mad Men is doomed.

    As for “James,” I had surgery yesterday and am cranky, sore, and pissed. He really does not want to provoke me.

  18. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 8:57 pm #

    James: U.S. Senator supports Obama Birth Certificate Lawsuits

    James: the senator you breathlessly admire, is a world class hypocrite. Here’s Republican family values on parade:

    “Sen. David Vitter (R-La.) apologized last night after his telephone number appeared in the phone records of the woman dubbed the “D.C. Madam,” making him the first member of Congress to become ensnared in the high-profile case.

    “This was a very serious sin in my past for which I am, of course, completely responsible,” Vitter, 46, said in a statement, which his spokesman, Joel DiGrado, confirmed to the Associated Press.

    “Several years ago, I asked for and received forgiveness from God and my wife in confession and marriage counseling,” Vitter continued. “Out of respect for my family, I will keep my discussion of the matter there — with God and them. But I certainly offer my deep and sincere apologies to all I have disappointed and let down in any way.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/09/AR2007070902030.html

  19. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 9:02 pm #

    Ellid: As for “James,” I had surgery yesterday and am cranky, sore, and pissed. He really does not want to provoke me.

    Go ahead, you’ll feel better. It will be cathartic.

    Here, I’ll get you started: Hey, James – I got your birth certificate right here.

  20. avatar
    Dave July 13, 2010 at 9:02 pm #

    James:
    U.S. Senator supports Obama Birth Certificate Lawsuits

    I guess I should be glad it takes so little to make you happy.

    I’m sure Vitter is glad it takes so little, man was just hit with a serious primary challenge out of the blue and he needs some cheap votes fast.

    Are you expecting Vitter to do anything to show his support, or is it enough that he just speaks those words without the least intention of doing anything about it?

  21. avatar
    sfjeff July 13, 2010 at 9:10 pm #

    So how did Vitter vote when Obama’s election was confirmed in Congress?

  22. avatar
    Dave July 13, 2010 at 9:10 pm #

    misha:

    Quoth Vitter: “Several years ago, I asked for and received forgiveness from God …”

    “Asked” I understand, but he “received” forgiveness? Says who? Did he get a receipt or something? I’d think under the circumstances a little humility wouldn’t hurt.

  23. avatar
    Majority Will July 13, 2010 at 10:09 pm #

    OBAMA RELEASES CHUPACABRA INTO ARIZONA

  24. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 13, 2010 at 10:15 pm #

    James: http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/07/13/tanzanian-newspaper-reports-that-obama-has-origins-from-east-africa/

    So James how much money have you given to people who email you saying their rich uncle died in South Africa and they are coming into 15 million US dollars and 5 million could be yours if you just forward 40,000 dollars

  25. avatar
    Slartibartfast July 13, 2010 at 10:18 pm #

    Majority Will: OBAMA RELEASES CHUPACABRA INTO ARIZONA

    Wouldn’t most birthers approve of releasing chupacabras in the parking lots of Arizona Home Depots? (Although I guess they would disapprove of anything President Obama did on general principles… ;-))

  26. avatar
    Majority Will July 13, 2010 at 10:19 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    So James how much money have you given to people who email you saying their rich uncle died in South Africa and they are coming into 15 million US dollars and 5 million could be yours if you just forward 40,000 dollars

    How much can an assistant to the assistant manager of a Lenny’s Fried Possum Emporium afford?

  27. avatar
    Majority Will July 13, 2010 at 10:21 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    Wouldn’t most birthers approve of releasing chupacabras in the parking lots of Arizona Home Depots?(Although I guess they would disapprove of anything President Obama did on general principles… )

    Their existences both rely on fiction.

  28. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP July 13, 2010 at 10:24 pm #

    James: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBMQO-YkmJE
    U.S. Senator supports Obama Birth Certificate Lawsuits

    I guess Vitter supports conservatives making fools out of themselves too then. Even Vitter was smart enough to know he doesn’t have standing, yet he encourages others to try to do what he knows they cannot do. Maybe it’s just a case of “stupidity loves company.”

  29. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP July 13, 2010 at 10:25 pm #

    Majority Will: OBAMA RELEASES CHUPACABRA INTO ARIZONA

    I can’t wait to see you in the Globe article at the newsstand. lol

  30. avatar
    Majority Will July 13, 2010 at 10:29 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    I can’t wait to see you in the Globe article at the newsstand. lol

    I’m not dating Jennifer Aniston despite the rumors.

  31. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP July 13, 2010 at 10:50 pm #

    lmao!

  32. avatar
    Majority Will July 13, 2010 at 11:00 pm #

    World Net Daily has crossed the line many times and profits from birther stupidity.

    First amendment rights or sedition?

  33. avatar
    obsolete July 13, 2010 at 11:21 pm #

    If Vitter Really thought there was any issue, he, as a U.S. Senator, could call for a Senate investigation into Obama’s birf certificate. Instead, he roots on lawsuits that are doomed to fail.
    I think Birther’s should press Vitter 24/7 to put his money where his mouth is, and call for an investigation. Call/fax/email him constantly. If he has any doubts, it’s his DUTY to do such. But I’ll bet anything he won’t. Because he knows the issue is BS.

  34. avatar
    misha July 13, 2010 at 11:45 pm #

    James: Bombshell!Brand new news article: Obama was born in Kenya and has a different middle name:

    Bombshell! Michelle Obama found a unicorn on the White House grounds!!

    Read all about it in the Globe!! At your checkout line now!!

  35. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 14, 2010 at 12:00 am #

    misha:
    Bombshell! Michelle Obama found a unicorn on the White House grounds!!Read all about it in the Globe!! At your checkout line now!!

    Where’s Tim Curry when you need him?

  36. avatar
    Don Draper July 14, 2010 at 3:01 am #

    Rickey:
    Who is Barry Soetoro, and how do we contact him to ask him to release his adoption records?I am a private investigator, and I can’t find a record of a single person with the surname “Soetoro” anywhere in the United States.

    Try Maya Soetoro-Ng. I’m sure she could enlighten all of us.

  37. avatar
    misha July 14, 2010 at 3:08 am #

    Don Draper: Try Maya Soetoro-Ng. I’m sure she could enlighten all of us.

    You should contact her, and tell us what you find out. I’ll be waiting to hear from you.

  38. avatar
    Sef July 14, 2010 at 3:18 am #

    misha:
    Bombshell! Michelle Obama found a unicorn on the White House grounds!!Read all about it in the Globe!! At your checkout line now!!

    What!!?? There’s a virgin in D.C.?

  39. avatar
    Don Draper July 14, 2010 at 8:12 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    You were aware that the US Department of State has denied that there was any adoption? You’d think they would know.

    How would the State Department know of the Soetoro adoption?

    After Stanley Ann married Soetoro and changed her name to S. Ann Soetoro, it would be up to her to inform the IRS, Soc Sec Admin and US State Department of her name change. It’s the same for Barry Soetoro.

    Stanley could have went to the US Passport office and used a certified copy of her and Barack’s original birth certificate to obtain a US Passport and not informed the State Department she had married and her son from a previous marriage had been adopted.

    Stanley Ann and Barack could have traveled to Indonesia under the names Stanley Ann Dunham and Barack Hussein Obama and renounced their US Citizenship under those names. After the US SoS issues a Certificate of Loss of Nationality to each, they could have went to Indonesian authorities and used the Soetoro marriage and adoption papers to obtain Indonesian citizenship.

    Dr. Fukino would have no idea of the Certificate of Loss of Nationality because the State Depart doesn’t inform the variousl states of these records. In turn, the State of Hawaii doesn’t inform the State Depart about marriages or adoptions. It’s up to the adoptee’s parents to disclose.

    The American Oligarchy has put two foreign born candidates up for election and left it up to average Americans to figure it out without the benefit of the Congress or the Courts. We can learn to live with the problem or we can solve it with a National I.D. program where all state and Federal records administrators report to a centralized database on each person in America.

    Apparently, Illid has jumped the gun and had her microchip surgically implanted yesterday.

  40. avatar
    Bovril July 14, 2010 at 10:57 am #

    Danny

    All bovine byproduct of course but even IF Obama could have been adopted in Indonesia (not happened, no proof) he would never have gained Indonesion citizenship (too old by Indonesion law) and in any case he would not have lost his US citizenship and NBC status. (it’s his and wholly independant of his mother)

    So your point is…?

  41. avatar
    Rickey July 14, 2010 at 11:12 am #

    Don Draper:
    Try Maya Soetoro-Ng. I’m sure she could enlighten all of us.

    I’m not going to do your work for you. The phone number for Maya’s husband is listed on the University of Hawaii’s Academy of Creative Media website. Give him a call and then get back to us.

  42. avatar
    bob July 14, 2010 at 11:33 am #

    Doc, you’ve changed.

    (Read the comments.)

  43. avatar
    Majority Will July 14, 2010 at 11:35 am #

    Don Draper:

    Stanley could have went . . .

    Illiterate nonsense and fiction, Sven. You will continue to make things up like the other delusional birthers but lack of proof or any credible evidence just makes you a bad fiction writer.

  44. avatar
    Don Draper July 14, 2010 at 12:53 pm #

    Bovril:So your point is…?

    Catch 22.

    If Stanley Ann took Barack’s original birth certificate into the US Passport office, then the passport examiner would want to see the Obama Divorce Decree to determine if there were any international travel restrictions written into the agreement and to see if Stanley Ann was awarded full custody.

    The divorce decree and Barack’s original BC would be included in Stanley Ann’s passport file to cover the US State Dept if BO Sr ever showed up to challenge the issuance of a US Passport to a future leader of the Luo Tribe of Kenya.

    Or, S. Ann Soetoro and Barry Soetoro applied for their passport using the Stanley Ann’s original BC and an amended BC indicating Lolo Soetoro is Barack’s father.

    Either way, BHO II is incriminated.Thus, the delay in the FOIA request.

  45. avatar
    bob July 14, 2010 at 12:55 pm #

    Don Draper: If Stanley Ann…

    And if Stanley Ann had wheels, she’d be a trolley.

    Your speculation is not evidence of anything.

  46. avatar
    Majority Will July 14, 2010 at 1:20 pm #

    Don Draper:
    If . . .

    More boring fiction and nonsense, Sven. It’s not even mildly entertaining. Let’s start making up stuff about you. Where to start . . .

  47. avatar
    misha July 14, 2010 at 3:20 pm #

    Don Draper: Try Maya Soetoro-Ng. I’m sure she could enlighten all of us.

    misha: You should contact her, and tell us what you find out. I’ll be waiting to hear from you.

    Rickey: I’m not going to do your work for you. The phone number for Maya’s husband is listed on the University of Hawaii’s Academy of Creative Media website. Give him a call and then get back to us.

    Sven won’t call. He’s a coward and an armchair warrior. He uses several different screen names, and has them “talk” to each other. Do you think he’s schizophrenic?

  48. avatar
    Jules July 14, 2010 at 3:25 pm #

    bob:
    Your speculation is not evidence of anything.

    If speculation about the merely possible must be asumed true until shown otherwise, then we get to assume that just about everyone who has been abroad is not a US citizen. After all, it would be possible for a US citizen to make an appointment with a US consulate and renounce his US citizenship. Perhaps I should sue every presidential candidate, argue that they have the burden to prove that they were never issued with a Certificate of Loss of Nationality, and demand access to their passport files.

    Sarah Palin, John McCain, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Joe Biden, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, George H.W. Bush, and Dan Quayle never made their passport files public. What are they hiding?

    I suppose it may be possible to make a FOIA request for Ronald Reagan’s passport file now that he’s dead. However, if Dr C’s experience is any indicator, then it’s probably not worth it.

  49. avatar
    AnotherBird July 14, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    Don Draper:
    Catch 22…. if BO Sr ever showed up to challenge the issuance of a US Passport …

    Casting doubt about divorce in the 1960’s would have been more fun, if it wasn’t for this gem. I would love to read an explanation on how the actual knowledge of such an event is possible.

    So as Bovril has eloquently said:So your point is…?

  50. avatar
    sfjeff July 14, 2010 at 4:36 pm #

    Hey, Sven will you at least alert us when you start a new chapter of “Barry and the Pirates?

    “If Stanley Ann took Barack’s original birth certificate into the US Passport office, then the passport examiner would want to see the Obama Divorce Decree to determine if there were any international travel restrictions written into the agreement and to see if Stanley Ann was awarded full custody.”

    I don’t know if that was necessary then or not, but that seems reasonable.

    The divorce decree and Barack’s original BC would be included in Stanley Ann’s passport file to cover the US State Dept if BO Sr ever showed up to challenge the issuance of a US Passport to a future leader of the Luo Tribe of Kenya.”

    a) Why would anyone care? This has no effect on elgibility
    b) Why would the State Department either 1- know who Barrack Obama Sr. was and 2- are you assuming that all black men from Kenya are potential future leaders of the Luo tribe? Because this is just really silly.

  51. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 14, 2010 at 4:54 pm #

    Don (Sven) Draper

    If Stanley Ann took Barack’s original birth certificate into the US Passport office, then the passport examiner would want to see the Obama Divorce Decree to determine if there were any international travel restrictions written into the agreement and to see if Stanley Ann was awarded full custody.

    The divorce decree and Barack’s original BC would be included in Stanley Ann’s passport file to cover the US State Dept if BO Sr ever showed up to challenge the issuance of a US Passport to a future leader of the Luo Tribe of Kenya.

    No. If such were the case, the documents would be in Barack Obama’s passport file, not his mother’s, and inaccessible by FOIA.

    However, the fact that the Dunham passport release is sitting in DoS legal review suggests one of two possibilities to me: There is something in that application about which there is a legal question for release OR it has something to do with the lawsuits only.

  52. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 14, 2010 at 5:07 pm #

    @ bob and Bob Ross:

    Thanks. Yes somebody is making dumb-ass comments under the name of “Dr. Conspiracy.”

  53. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) July 14, 2010 at 5:19 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: @ bob and Bob Ross: Thanks. Yes somebody is making dumb-ass comments under the name of “Dr. Conspiracy.”

    I think its most likely one of our birthers here. Somehow Sven comes to mind as he takes on multiple identities.

  54. avatar
    misha July 14, 2010 at 5:59 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Somehow Sven comes to mind as he takes on multiple identities.

    As I said, schizophrenia. Classic signs.

  55. avatar
    obsolete July 14, 2010 at 7:24 pm #

    Food for though from HuffPost:

    “Here’s a little tidbit for the Birthers.. David Vitter, as a Senator in the US Senate, has received a thorough FBI screening, a fact he is very aware of. The FBI screens all Federal office holders who may have access to top secret information or be on committees dealing with National Security issues. Any legitimate candidate for President undergoes the same thorough FBI background check. This involves verification of documents, PLACE OF BIRTH, associations, resume, interviews with former classmates, colleagues, clubs, relationships, job history, awards, military service, etc.

    Any fool can twist all this into some grand conspiracy, but the fact is, the FBI has checked the President prior to his Inauguration. Vitter knows this, he’s just sucking up to his base. If anyone doubts this, call the FBI’s information office and ask. They won’t tell you if “President Obama” has had a background check because it’s confidential. You have to ask if ALL presidents get an FBI background check.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/richnerd/david-vitter-birther-gop_n_644031_53493183.html

  56. avatar
    Black Lion July 14, 2010 at 7:59 pm #

    From the Post and Fail….

    “The American people are looking to Governor Brewer to defend her state as she is doing, but also to challenge a man who has most likely assumed the office of President through dissembling and deceit, wire fraud, election fraud, and document fraud.

    There is a tremendous amount of circumstantial and other evidence which points to a foreign birth for Obama, and by his own admission, he was born a dual citizen. He has also carefully described himself as “a native citizen of the United States of America” but not a “natural born Citizen.”

    It is impossible for Obama to be a “natural born Citizen” if he was born with dual citizenship, and “native born” is not the same as “natural born.” Since he has never shown his original birth certificate, we also do not know his actual age.

    Congress refused to check on Obama’s qualifications for office, despite thousands of requests to do so by concerned constituents before the certification of electoral votes in January 2009.

    It makes no sense to mount an expensive legal defense when Governor Brewer could simply ask Obama “By what authority” his Department of Justice is suing her state and naming her as a defendant. In fact, if Obama is a usurper to the presidency, he has no authority to do anything nor to direct anyone else to act. If that is the case, Obama and his entire government must be removed from office and a new presidential election held.

    You may have read that Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely (Ret.) has called for Obama and his regime to do just that, and he believes that Obama is hiding something very significant about his background from the American people. For someone to spend almost $2,000,000 to hide his birth certificate and other records, he certainly must be.

    All the governor needs to do is file a Quo Warranto. That’s it, and the lawsuit will be history. So will this false presidency and his Marxist regime which has forced all matter of unconstitutional and injurious legislation upon this nation. Attorneys Donofrio and Pidgeon are superb constitutional lawyers who reportedly have offered to help write the Quo Warranto filing.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/07/11/arizona-governor-can-force-obama-to-prove-hes-eligible-or-not/

    And in the humorous comments…

    K. C. Garrison, J.D. says:
    Wednesday, July 14, 2010 at 5:30 PM
    This is uncharted territory for the U.S.A. A lawsuit brought by the DOJ, even as frivolous as this one against Arizona’s law, is not a lawsuit brought by Mr. Obama.

    Under Art. I § 3, cl 6, it seems that a petition for Quo Warranto would have to be filed by the House of Representatives to the Senate with an order directing Mr. Obama to show cause why he should not be impeached for invalid qualifications (lack of natural birth in U.S.A.). No true American, regardless of political party, should allow a foreign born person to sit as President of the U.S.A.

    If it can be shown that Mr. Obama is not a natural born Citizen, then arguably, all his purported “official” acts as President should be invalid and void.

    An additional note. A birth certificate is not a birth record. Mr. Obama should be forced to show his actual birth record from the hospital of his birth. The hospital birth record and a birth certificate are two separate documents which have different legal significance. Where is the true official certified birth record of Mr. Obama?

  57. avatar
    sfjeff July 14, 2010 at 8:24 pm #

    “If that is the case, Obama and his entire government must be removed from office and a new presidential election held.”

    Why do these people always want to trash the very Constitution they claim to be defending?

  58. avatar
    Black Lion July 14, 2010 at 8:46 pm #

    sfjeff: “If that is the case, Obama and his entire government must be removed from office and a new presidential election held.”Why do these people always want to trash the very Constitution they claim to be defending?

    Jeff, that is because hatred of Obama causes these people to do and say silly things…They feel that the Constitution is only applicable if the person they like is in power….

  59. avatar
    Dave July 14, 2010 at 8:50 pm #

    Ah yes, the special presidential election. Frequently turns up on birther sites. Even the prominent Constitutional lawyer Orly Taitz has occasionally referred to this little known provision. Which is mainly little known because it doesn’t exist.

    Reminds me of the classic Onion article Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be.

  60. avatar
    Majority Will July 14, 2010 at 8:58 pm #

    sfjeff: “If that is the case, Obama and his entire government must be removed from office and a new presidential election held.”Why do these people always want to trash the very Constitution they claim to be defending?

    And ironically, they’re enjoying free speech. They are self-important pigs.

  61. avatar
    obsolete July 15, 2010 at 1:23 am #

    Quote:
    “An additional note. A birth certificate is not a birth record.”
    Of course not! In cuckooland, why would anyone possibly think that a birth certificate is a certificate of birth?

    Arguing that a “birth certificate” is not the same a “certificate of birth” or a “certification of birth” is exactly the type of argument that works to turn rational people away from birtherism as soon as they hear it sputtered by a nutcase.

  62. avatar
    obsolete July 15, 2010 at 1:25 am #

    Birther: “A “birth record” is not a “record of birth”!
    Rational human: :Hahahhaa ha ha hahaha!”

  63. avatar
    Black Lion July 15, 2010 at 1:40 am #

    obsolete: Birther: “A “birth record” is not a “record of birth”!Rational human: :Hahahhaa ha ha hahaha!”

    Agreed…I think overall birthers think that everyone is as dumb as they are….LIke when the parse Dr. Fukino’s statement where she states that “Barack Obama” was born in HI means something other than his mother gave birth to him in Hawaii….

  64. avatar
    misha July 15, 2010 at 1:51 am #

    obsolete: A birth certificate is not a birth record.Of course not! In cuckooland, why would anyone possibly think that a birth certificate is a certificate of birth?

    The time has come, the walrus said,
    To speak of many things.
    Of shoes, of ships, of sealing wax,
    Of cabbages and kings.

    And why the sea is boiling hot,
    And whether pigs have wings.

  65. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 15, 2010 at 8:09 am #

    obsolete (quoting): “An additional note. A birth certificate is not a birth record.”

    Well technically this is true. A Birth Certificate is a government certified copy of a “birth record”. When a jurisdiction issues a birth certificate, they are saying with the full authority of the jurisdiction: “this is what is on the birth record.” Sometimes the copy is a photocopy and sometimes it is typed/scanned into a computer and later reprinted.

  66. avatar
    Rickey July 15, 2010 at 12:02 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Well technically this is true. A Birth Certificate is a government certified copy of a “birth record”. When a jurisdiction issues a birth certificate, they are saying with the full authority of the jurisdiction: “this is what is on the birth record.” Sometimes the copy is a photocopy and sometimes it is typed/scanned into a computer and later reprinted.

    I wonder how many people have actually seen their original birth records? I know that I have never seen mine, although I’m pretty confident that the information on my birth certificate (technically, my “Certificate of Birth Registration”) is accurate.

  67. avatar
    Sxeptomaniac July 15, 2010 at 1:43 pm #

    Black Lion: An additional note. A birth certificate is not a birth record. Mr. Obama should be forced to show his actual birth record from the hospital of his birth. The hospital birth record and a birth certificate are two separate documents which have different legal significance. Where is the true official certified birth record of Mr. Obama?

    Only a birther would try to float a completely ridiculous, ignorant argument like this. The hospital’s birth record carries LESS legal weight than a copy of the official birth certificate, not more. I know because, at one point, I needed my birth certificate for a legal matter, but was only able to find my birth record from the hospital. The birth record was not accepted, so I had to get an official copy, with the state seal embossed on it.

  68. avatar
    jamese777 July 15, 2010 at 1:59 pm #

    I find it rather strange that the birthers would trust a document released BY Obama as opposed to a document released under the authority of the REPUBLICAN Governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle.
    It seems that they would trust OBAMA’s original long form birth certificate but not the birth records of the state of Hawaii.

  69. avatar
    jamese777 July 15, 2010 at 2:55 pm #

    obsolete: Food for though from HuffPost:“Here’s a little tidbit for the Birthers.. David Vitter, as a Senator in the US Senate, has received a thorough FBI screening, a fact he is very aware of. The FBI screens all Federal office holders who may have access to top secret information or be on committees dealing with National Security issues. Any legitimate candidate for President undergoes the same thorough FBI background check. This involves verification of documents, PLACE OF BIRTH, associations, resume, interviews with former classmates, colleagues, clubs, relationships, job history, awards, military service, etc.Any fool can twist all this into some grand conspiracy, but the fact is, the FBI has checked the President prior to his Inauguration. Vitter knows this, he’s just sucking up to his base. If anyone doubts this, call the FBI’s information office and ask. They won’t tell you if “President Obama” has had a background check because it’s confidential. You have to ask if ALL presidents get an FBI background check.”http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/richnerd/david-vitter-birther-gop_n_644031_53493183.html

    I’m not a birther but without a named source, I don’t trust the Huff Post’s information on FBI background checks to be any more accurate that the Post and Efail’s. I would like to see an authoritative source like the FBI itself verify that they have done background checks on all presidential candidates.

  70. avatar
    bob July 15, 2010 at 3:19 pm #

    jamese777: I’m not a birther but without a named source, I don’t trust the Huff Post’s information on FBI background checks to be any more accurate that the Post and Efail’s. I would like to see an authoritative source like the FBI itself verify that they have done background checks on all presidential candidates.

    I agree. It also doesn’t make sense logically:

    Let’s say Obama “fails” his background check and thus doesn’t qualify to some security clearance, but is nonetheless elected president. Is the FBI, CIA, etc. going to withhold the sensitive data from the president during the decision-making and policy-setting process?

  71. avatar
    jamese777 July 15, 2010 at 4:34 pm #

    bob: I agree. It also doesn’t make sense logically:Let’s say Obama “fails” his background check and thus doesn’t qualify to some security clearance, but is nonetheless elected president. Is the FBI, CIA, etc. going to withhold the sensitive data from the president during the decision-making and policy-setting process?

    Good point.

    I would absolutely love it if there was proof that all presidential candidates underwent a background check. There was some dispute about whether McCain had the FBI look into Palin’s background before putting her on the ticket but I searched a bit and I could find nothing on a routine FBI background check on ALL presidential candidates.

    Anybody?

  72. avatar
    sfjeff July 15, 2010 at 4:58 pm #

    James: I would like to see an authoritative source like the FBI itself verify that they have done background checks on all presidential candidates.

    Huffpo article: If anyone doubts this, call the FBI’s information office and ask. They won’t tell you if “President Obama” has had a background check because it’s confidential. You have to ask if ALL presidents get an FBI background

    So call.

  73. avatar
    jamese777 July 15, 2010 at 7:36 pm #

    Huffpo article: If anyone doubts this, call the FBI’s information office and ask. They won’t tell you if “President Obama” has had a background check because it’s confidential. You have to ask if ALL presidents get an FBI background

    So call.

    Great idea, thanks! I’ll do it.
    But I still find it strange that with all the furor over Obama’s background, it looks like no one has ever written an article on the government’s own vetting process for presidential candidates. Background check vetting of a candidate is not the same as a background check for the person who has already been elected.
    If the FBI background check process was widely known, it could have killed birthism in its infancy.

  74. avatar
    Majority Will July 15, 2010 at 8:54 pm #

    jamese777:
    If the FBI background check process was widely known, it could have killed birthism in its infancy.

    Sure, but then the fundies and fright wingers would shriek that reeks of abortion. Sanity can’t win.

  75. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 15, 2010 at 9:17 pm #

    Until I see something more concrete in the way of evidence, I remain skeptical about FBI background checks of presidential candidates. Maybe in Hoover’s time.

  76. avatar
    obsolete July 16, 2010 at 3:41 am #

    There is an FBI background check for U.S. Senate candidates as well, as they will frequently have to be granted a security clearance. Perhaps someone with better phone skills can find out specifics from a friendly FBI office?
    Purely anecdotal, but I had a friend whose parents were interviewed by the FBI as part of a check on Jack Kemp. (family friends). They told me about this in the mid 90’s, when he was running for Vice-President but I don’t remember if the check occurred around the time frame they told me about it, or earlier when he ran for Congress or became part of President George H. W. Bush’s cabinet.

    I’m not sure if this applies, but here is what the FBI’s site has to say:
    “State and local officials who require access to classified material must apply for a security clearance through their local FBI Field Office. The candidate should obtain from their local FBI Field Office a Standard Form 86 (SF 86), Questionnaire for National Security Positions; and two FD-258 (FBI applicant fingerprint cards). One of two levels of security clearance, Secret or Top Secret, may be appropriate.”
    http://www.fbi.gov/clearance/securityclearance.htm

    As Senator, Obama sat on various committees that would have access to classified material-
    from wikipedia:
    Obama held assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans’ Affairs through December 2006.[85] In January 2007, he left the Environment and Public Works committee and took additional assignments with Health, Education, Labor and Pensions and Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.[86] He also became Chairman of the Senate’s subcommittee on European Affairs.

    Obama also had a U.S. diplomatic passport- Imagine the laughs when he handed over one of his Kenyan BC’s to apply for it!

  77. avatar
    obsolete July 16, 2010 at 3:46 am #

    In short, I’d like the FBI or State Dept. to answer definitively on whether Obama would have had a security check at some point in his career. My logic tells me yes, but I admit that I may be wrong.

  78. avatar
    Bovril July 16, 2010 at 6:24 am #

    Well, minor problem is unless you have appropriate clearance you are not allowed to know the level of clearance of another individual…….

    To possibly clarify Dr C;s comment

    There can be no legal or constitutional basis to perform a pre or post election clearance check on an individual senator or congressman or presidential candidate. Clear interference in the freedom of the populace to vote for their choice of candidates.

    Now, being voted in as Senator X is one thing,it is when the individual then is nominated for a role or position in a committee where they will have access to classified data that a background check wiould be necessary.

    This does not interfere with the politicians right to run, electorates choice and right to vote them in and exercise their authority in the House only that there will be a potential limit on access to discrete, non pubiic sets of information.

    So, as an example, I imagine there is little in the area of Agriculture or Public Works that needs clearance, but Homeland Security……

    It is eminently possible/probable that preliminary work to frame a clearance investigation of or for an individual may occur before they actually need to have a clearance check.

    At the end of the day the democratic process is messy and fraught, it’s just better than the alternatives.

  79. avatar
    Thomas Brown July 16, 2010 at 10:49 am #

    Anyone who still thinks our President was born anywhere except Hawaii is dumber than a Jello hammer.

  80. avatar
    Sef July 16, 2010 at 11:13 am #

    Thomas Brown: Anyone who still thinks our President was born anywhere except Hawaii is dumber than a Jello hammer.

    When all you have is a jello hammer you screw up everything.

  81. avatar
    Majority Will July 16, 2010 at 11:31 am #

    Sef:
    When all you have is a jello hammer you screw up everything.

    “It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a Jell-O hammer, to treat everything as if it were a Jell-O nail.” (with apologies to Abraham Maslow)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument

  82. avatar
    Sef July 16, 2010 at 11:35 am #

    Majority Will:
    “It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a Jell-O hammer, to treat everything as if it were a Jell-O nail.” (with apologies to Abraham Maslow)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument

    Yes, I am very familiar with that. I thought the juxtaposition of hammer & screw would be interesting.

  83. avatar
    Majority Will July 16, 2010 at 12:15 pm #

    Sef:
    Yes, I am very familiar with that.I thought the juxtaposition of hammer & screw would be interesting.

    It was and on a threaded comment! Pun intended, of course.

  84. avatar
    PetJake July 16, 2010 at 1:27 pm #

    Thomas Brown: Anyone who still thinks our President was born anywhere except Hawaii is dumber than a Jello hammer.

    Anyone who thinks that Obama was born in Hawaii, doesn’t.

  85. avatar
    The Sheriff's A Ni- July 16, 2010 at 1:39 pm #

    PetJake: Anyone who thinks that Obama was born in Hawaii, doesn’t.

    Very clever.

    Doesn’t change the fact that the President was born in Hawaii, though.

  86. avatar
    Majority Will July 16, 2010 at 2:11 pm #

    The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
    Very clever.
    Doesn’t change the fact that the President was born in Hawaii, though.

    I’m amazed any birther can function at all with a cranial vacuum.

    The most annoying aspect of delusional birtherism is the complete lack of respect for American tradition, history, the Constitution and U.S. law.

  87. avatar
    G July 21, 2010 at 5:38 pm #

    Another excellent blog post, Dr. C! I agree with every bit of what you said and commend you for your choice of words and tone. Well said!