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No more “long form”

I have made an editorial decision to standardize the way I talk about birth certificates, and in particular to stop using the phrase “long form.” I think the “long form” / “short form” designations create more heat than light.

Hawaii Department of Health Director Fukino used the phrase “original birth certificate” to describe the document they hold and that’s what I will use. Adding “hospital” or “typewritten” in front is unnecessary, and I’m going to stop doing that.

The documents that individuals get from vital records agencies are “certified copies” and I will use that term as the general term, consistent with industry terminology. This is also what consumers commonly call a “birth certificate.” When using the term informally to apply to a particular document, I’ll use “birth certificate” too.

There are two types of certified copies of original birth certificates: “certified photocopies” and” certified abstract copies”. The latter is a certified copy of information taken (abstracted) from the original birth certificate. I’m going to use those terms to distinguish between the two types as in “President Obama published a certified abstract copy of his birth certificate”.

And what of the COLB? As it is commonly used in the Obama Conspiracy community, this term is fairly meaningless, particularly because the acronym applies equally to a “Certificate of Live Birth” as it does to a “Certification of Live Birth,”  terms that appear on original birth certificates as well as both kinds of abstract copy. The term has value when used properly. I will use the term “Certificate of Live Birth” (COLB) to make a distinction between a live birth and a foreign born adoption or an out of state birth.

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22 Responses to No more “long form”

  1. avatar
    James July 19, 2010 at 9:18 pm #

    Obama was born in Kenya:
    http://catholicbook.com/catholicbook/testimony_from_mombasa.htm
    —–
    I happen to be Kenyan. I was born 1 month before Obama at Mombasa medical center. I am a teacher here at the MM Shaw Primary School in Kenya.

    I compared my birth certificate to the one that has been put on by Taitz and mine is exactly the same. I even have the same registrar and format. The type is identical.

    I am by nature a skeptical person. I teach science here and challenge most things that cannot be proven.

    So I went to an official registrar today and pulled up the picture on the web. They magnified it and determined it to be authentic. There is even a plaque with Registrar Lavenders name on it as he was a Brit and was in charge of the Registrar office from 1959 until January of 1964.

    The reason the date on the certificate says republic of Kenya is that we were a republic when the “copy” of the original was ordered.

    I stress the word “copy.”

    My copy also has republic of Kenya.

    So what you say is true about Kenya not being a republic at the time of Obama’s birth, however it was a republic when the copy was ordered.

    The birth certificate is genuine. I assure you it will be authenticated by a forensic auditor.

    We are very proud Obama was born here.

    We have a shrine for him and there are many people who remember his birth here as he had a white mother.

    They are being interviewed now by one of your media outlets.

    Fortunately they even have pictures of his parents with him immediately after his birth at the Mombasa hospital with the hospital in the back ground.

    It will be a proud day for us when it is proven that he was born here and a Kenyan became the most powerful man in the world.

    I encourage anyone to come here and visit.

    I will be happy to take you and show you the pictures at the hospital myself as well as my document and many others that are identical to what Taitz posted.

    God Bless.

    Kitau

  2. avatar
    richCares July 19, 2010 at 9:31 pm #

    James, James James, why haven’t you taken your medication. Your buddie is a crook and you are either a partner or a victim.

  3. avatar
    Jerry Reed July 19, 2010 at 9:41 pm #

    Kitau, this was debunked weeks or months ago when a similar missive was first published, as I recall, in a different forum. The “birth certificate” offered by Taitz in August 2009 (befiore she vouched for a totally different Kenyan “certificate” in September 2009), sank beneath the waves quickly in early Auigust a year ago when an Australian man identified it as a photoshop of his own. So many of the names and numbers were identical on the two documents, as was the design, that one of them had to be a photoshop of the other. Since birthers quickly abandoned the August 2009 certificate, it’s obvious that even they realized they had a loser on their hands.

    Please come up with something fresher and more original.

  4. avatar
    jamese777 July 19, 2010 at 9:57 pm #

    “The Court observes that the President defeated seven opponents in a grueling campaign for his party’s nomination that lasted more than eighteen months and cost those opponents well over $300 million. Then the President faced a formidable opponent in the general election who received $84 million to conduct his general election campaign against the President. It would appear that ample opportunity existed for discovery of evidence that would support any contention that the President was not eligible for the office he sought. Furthermore, Congress is apparently satisfied that the President is qualified to serve. Congress has not instituted impeachment proceedings, and in fact, the House of Representatives in a broad bipartisan manner has rejected the suggestion that the President is not eligible for office. See H.R. Res. 593, 111th Cong. (2009) (commemorating, by vote of 378-0, the 50th anniversary of Hawaii’s statehood and stating, “the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961”). “

    “A spurious claim questioning the President’s constitutional legitimacy may be protected by the First Amendment, but a Court’s placement of its imprimatur upon a claim that is so lacking in factual support that it is frivolous would undoubtedly disserve the public interest.
    For all of these reasons, the Court finds that Plaintiff’s motion for a temporary restraining order should be denied.
    CONCLUSION
    For the reasons previously stated, Plaintiff’s motion for a temporary restraining order is denied and Plaintiff’s complaint is dismissed in its entirety. Defendants shall recover their costs from Plaintiff. “–US Federal District Court Judge for the Middle District of Georgia Clay D. Land in dismissing “Rhodes v MacDonald,” September 16, 2009
    Judge Land was an appointee to the federal judiciary of George W. Bush. Previously he served as a Republican State legislator from Columbus, Georgia.

  5. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 19, 2010 at 10:18 pm #

    James (quoting) Kitau: So I went to an official registrar today and pulled up the picture on the web. They magnified it and determined it to be authentic. There is even a plaque with Registrar Lavenders name on it as he was a Brit and was in charge of the Registrar office from 1959 until January of 1964.

    Oh, is that the birth certificate where the fee on the upper left is in shillings and pence? Kenya never used pence. Your Kitau is a fake.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/08/a-stake-through-its-heart/

  6. avatar
    racosta July 19, 2010 at 11:57 pm #

    James has been shown that the Kitau story is phony at least 4 times. So James either has a severe learning disablity or he is a nasty troll (probably both).

  7. avatar
    Jules July 20, 2010 at 4:36 am #

    James,

    In the event that the image that we have seen of a Kenyan birth certificate for Obama is genuine, why has the document not been legalised for use within the United States?

    If I wanted to be able to use my birth certificate in proceedings in the UK, I would be able to get an apostille from the state in which I was born. If I wanted to use my birth certificate in a country that is not a party to the Hague Convention (such as Kenya), then there would be some extra steps, but the fact of the matter is that I would be able to get the appropriate authentication for use of the document abroad as a genuine record.

    By the way, the Certification of Live Birth that Obama ordered in 2007 is capable of receiving an apostille or going through the process of consular legalisation for use in a country that is not a party to the Hague Convention. Obama has not received an apostille or consular legalisation because he has intended to use the document only within the United States. Taitz, meanwhile, has sought to admit into proceedings within the US a document that is purported to be a genuine Kenyan public record when she has apparently taken no steps to have the document authenticated for use in the US.

  8. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 7:10 am #

    racosta: James has been shown that the Kitau story is phony at least 4 times. So James either has a severe learning disablity or he is a nasty troll (probably both).

    Or since this poster keeps putting up the exact same, laughable, thoroughly debunked nonsense repeatedly, the message is actually from an anti-birther attempting to permanently damage any chance of birther credibility.

  9. avatar
    Jules July 20, 2010 at 8:16 am #

    James:
    The reason the date on the certificate says republic of Kenya is that we were a republic when the “copy” of the original was ordered.

    The image purported to be a scan of Obama’s Kenyan certificate states that it is a copy issued on 17 February 1964 of a birth registration made in August 1961. On 17 February 1964, the Republic of Kenya did not yet exist as such.

    Although Kenya became independent on 12 December 1963, it was not proclaimed a republic until 12 December 1964. For the first year of Kenyan independence, Kenya was a constitutional monarchy and Elizabeth II was head of state. All of the Queen’s powers and duties in Kenya were exercised by the Governor-General. See articles 31 to 33 inclusive of Kenya’s 1963 constitution.

  10. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 12:04 pm #

    Jules:
    The image purported to be a scan of Obama’s Kenyan certificate states that it is a copy issued on 17 February 1964 of a birth registration made in August 1961. On 17 February 1964, the Republic of Kenya did not yet exist as such.Although Kenya became independent on 12 December 1963, it was not proclaimed a republic until 12 December 1964. For the first year of Kenyan independence, Kenya was a constitutional monarchy and Elizabeth II was head of state. All of the Queen’s powers and duties in Kenya were exercised by the Governor-General. See articles 31 to 33 inclusive of Kenya’s 1963 constitution.

    Reality, facts and the truth will only confuse him.

  11. avatar
    Jules July 20, 2010 at 12:13 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Reality, facts and the truth will only confuse him.

    World Net Daily got rather confused by the fact that Kenya was not republic until December 1964. They quoted sections of the constitution in force today and noted that the document that they were quoting was the 1963 constitution as amended. What they did not realise was that the sections that they quoted about Kenya being a republic were part of the major amendments that re-wrote much of the constitution in December 1964.

  12. avatar
    Majority Will July 20, 2010 at 12:23 pm #

    Jules:
    World Net Daily got rather confused by the fact that Kenya was not republic until December 1964. They quoted sections of the constitution in force today and noted that the document that they were quoting was the 1963 constitution as amended. What they did not realise was that the sections that they quoted about Kenya being a republic were part of the major amendments that re-wrote much of the constitution in December 1964.

    WND has a rather long and vile history of presenting fiction as fact.

    One example of many:
    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2010/wndletters.html

  13. avatar
    Sef July 20, 2010 at 12:44 pm #

    Jules:
    The image purported to be a scan of Obama’s Kenyan certificate states that it is a copy issued on 17 February 1964 of a birth registration made in August 1961. On 17 February 1964, the Republic of Kenya did not yet exist as such.Although Kenya became independent on 12 December 1963, it was not proclaimed a republic until 12 December 1964. For the first year of Kenyan independence, Kenya was a constitutional monarchy and Elizabeth II was head of state. All of the Queen’s powers and duties in Kenya were exercised by the Governor-General. See articles 31 to 33 inclusive of Kenya’s 1963 constitution.

    People should take care when quoting the referenced pdf of the 1963 constitution. There seem to be many uncorrected OCR errors.

  14. avatar
    AnotherBird July 21, 2010 at 1:55 am #

    James: Obama was born in Kenya:
    http://catholicbook.com/catholicbook/testimony_from_mombasa.htm
    —–
    I happen to be Kenyan…God Bless.Kitau

    James, James, what can be said. Regurgitating an internet rumor is that all you have. I really hope that you haven’t fallen for an internet scam.

  15. avatar
    Black Lion July 21, 2010 at 10:43 am #

    More birhter loon nonsense….This time from the naturalized guy running for Senate in MO….His statements show how delusional the birthers have become….Sometimes you have to ask yourself if these people have a clue how things work and if they have acutally read the US Constitution….

    MRS. RONDEAU: I wonder why the Secretary of State’s office was “shocked” when you asked if Mr. Obama ever had to show anything to prove his citizenship when he had to meet the higher standard of “natural born Citizen.” Vattel, a Swiss philosopher whose writings were relied upon heavily by the Framers, described the term as “born in the country to parents who are its citizens.” Some say that it takes only birth in the country to be considered “natural born.” What is your interpretation of that phrase of the Constitution?

    MR. MALDONADO: Because the Founding Fathers put a provision for Congress to authorize a standing militia and a standing Navy, they knew that a Navy and a militia would be deployed or would have posts outside of the United States. It’s very clear to me; I think only a constitutionally-trained lawyer can create a loophole which can benefit someone. The interpretation is that a “natural born U.S. Citizen” is someone perhaps born abroad of two parents who are already citizens, whether they’re in military service or working for the State Department. We had ambassadors, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin, who served time abroad. If they had been younger and had had children abroad, they would have wanted their children to be natural born Citizens. So both parents must be U.S. citizens. If you have one parent who is not a U.S. citizen and has allegiance to or is ruled by a different country, then clearly, the child is not a “natural born Citizen.”

    The easiest way to explain it to people, because a lot of people have asked me, is to explain that when I took an oath, I was required to give up all previous loyalty and allegiance to my country of origin. American citizenship means that you’re loyal to one country, and that’s America. Now we have a lot of Americans who declare dual citizenship because they’re born here, but anyone who comes and is naturalized is supposed to give up any prior citizenship. So if you have the example of Obama, who was born abroad to one American citizen and one parent subject to the British crown, what gives the United States the right to take away the claim of the British over Barack Obama? They both have equal share. If he’s a dual citizen, America does not recognize dual citizenship status; therefore, he’s a subject of Great Britain and has British citizenship.

    MRS. RONDEAU: What makes you say Obama was “born abroad”?

    MR. MALDONADO: It’s not for me to judge, but there are certainly a lot of holes in the story. This is all I know: I know for a fact that a truth is a truth, and as John Adams said, “Facts are stubborn things.” They never change; no matter how much you try to manipulate them, they never change. Obama’s story has more than one rendition of what he is saying the truth is, and Michelle Obama has actually stated that his “home country” is Kenya. These are all questions that I have. I’m not going to make a judgment, but I have a lot of questions. My biggest question is that he has spent almost $2,000,000 to seal his records: why? He volunteered to be president, and as such, he should have had to open his records so that anyone had access to proof that he was eligible for the office he was seeking, as I did. He volunteered to serve, and as such, your life is open. There’s nothing that you can keep secret. My question is, “Why the secrecy? What are you hiding?” And that’s it. That’s the question that I plan on asking when I get elected to the U.S. Senate. We can’t let it go because we, the people of the United States of America, need to know the truth and nothing but the truth from all of our elected officials, including the President of the United States.

    MRS. RONDEAU: That leads me to my next question: When you are elected, what action, if any, will you or can you take to force the truth about Obama to come out?

    MR. MALDONADO: Absolutely. I’ve already started on two bills that I will spearhead and work with a coalition of newly-elected, like-minded concerned citizens who have never run for office but want the truth. I will push the bills immediately to gather support for passage. The first one is called “The American Freedom of Information Act” and would be retroactive to the birth of America on July 4, 1776. It would stipulate that anyone seeking federal public office is bound to open all records so that the public will know who they are, where they stand, and where they come from. So that’s the first one.

    The second bill is going to be called “The George Washington Term Limit Act,” which will set term limits, for which George Washington actually set the example. He had two terms, eight years, in the presidency, and everyone respected that. That tradition was then honored; those who sought the presidency would hold office for no more than eight years. It wasn’t broken until FDR did so during World War II. You can argue why, but still, we’re at war now, and we still had a peaceful transition of power for the chief executive. So there’s no excuse why we couldn’t have done it then.

    Those two bills are something that I am offering America, and I will do everything in my power to build a coalition of like-minded people to help me pass them. The second bill will have an additional requirement which not only will set term limits, but also contain the provision that after a congressman, president or vice president leaves federal office, he or she cannot become a lobbyist for five years after they separate from Capitol Hill. This would force them to represent the people and not the lobbyists on Capitol Hill waiting for them to leave so that they can use them and their network to pass legislation in favor of big companies and big interests.

    MRS. RONDEAU: It’s very interesting that you circled back to that, because I wanted to ask you another question about Obama. If it’s found that he did not meet the definition of “natural born Citizen,” how would that affect everything that he has signed and done up until that time?

    MR. MALDONADO: There are a lot of ramifications. First of all, if he does open his records and it is found that he is not a “natural born Citizen” in accordance with the Constitution, it means he committed high crimes and possibly treason, which is punishable under the Constitution. The “proof” that Obama has shown is a Certification of Live Birth. Anyone can get a Certification of Live Birth. The question is, where is the actual long form which would show all of the rest of the information such as that which John McCain submitted? McCain was born in Panama, and when he ran for president the first time, it was the Democrats who demanded this. Now we’re just demanding the same thing that they did.

    If Obama is found not to be qualified as a natural born Citizen, here are the ramifications: Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden’s names are on the certification letter, of which I have a copy, the state Democrat party letter of certification and the national DNC certification letter which does not have actual proof attached. It’s just one letter from his own party which states that he meets the qualifications. I also have the long-form birth certificate from John McCain which is attached to the letter of certification he received from John Boehner that was submitted, so that qualified as documentation.

    The Certification of Live Birth lacks a lot of the information that the president is supposed to turn in. If he is found to be in violation and unqualified for the office, everything he has done is null and void. It would reverse every executive order, every appointment, every treaty, anything that he has done in the last year and a half. Further and beyond that, immediate removal would be warranted. He would have violated Article 4 of the Constitution, which states that if you previously swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, which he did; he was a U.S. Senator and he took that oath. Amendment 14 also says that if you knowingly cause an insurrection or rebelled against the Constitution, you are not qualified to hold the office which you seek, which is where he is now. This is all unconstitutional, which means he’s not qualified for the office and calls for immediate removal. There should be no impeachment proceedings; it should be automatic; the Supreme Court should enforce that.

    As the certifying official, unless Nancy Pelosi can produce the long-form birth certificate that shows that he was born in Hawaii and other documentation, as John McCain produced, then she is also guilty of covering up. Whether she knew it or not or whether she just accepted it, I will hold her accountable for duping the American public and not doing her due diligence and looking and asking him for the long-form birth certificate. This would also mean that Joe Biden is unqualified to take over and Nancy Pelosi, being third in line, would not be qualified. So there would have to be a new election because Obama chose Hillary Clinton for Secretary of State, and that would also be a null and void appointment. So we’d have to have an immediate special election for president and a whole new administration. The ramifications are huge. This is bigger than any issue that America has ever faced.

    MRS. RONDEAU: If Obama is proven ineligible and removed along with all of his appointments, including Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan, if she is confirmed, do you believe that is something which America can survive?

    MR. MALDONADO: Absolutely. We have to. There’s no other way. We cannot, for the sake of wondering whether or not we can survive it, continue to let it go, because if indeed it comes out that we’ve been duped, and we find out the truth, we can’t go on living the lie. We have to fix it. And I am confident that we can survive it. It’s going to cause a lot of issues and a lot of problems, but if we don’t enforce our laws and the provisions of the Constitution, what’s the point of having elections? Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution guarantees a right to a “republican form of government,” and that’s something that Obama never talks about. He talks about a democracy. He has a majority, but you know what? If you’re not legitimate, in accordance with Article IV, Section 4, that is not a form of republican government; therefore, the majority that you have to pass legislation doesn’t matter because you’re not listening to the people. George Washington said that the people are “the purest source and original fountain of all power.”

    And in the comments….Going to show us that people are going to believe in fiction no matter what evidence is shown to them….

    Pamela Barnett. says:
    Monday, July 19, 2010 at 4:01 AM
    Great interview! God bless Hector for seeking truth and demanding justice!! He is a rare person to be running for Senate.. I pray he wins… please contribute to this great American if you can.

    William says:
    Sunday, July 18, 2010 at 11:56 PM
    It’s the fraudsters who are the criminals and loons, and very much the fringe since the majority of Americans do not believe Obama is eligible.
    I’ve called Pelosi’s office and was abused and screamed at by a verifiable loony representative who yelled about his ineligibility “it doesn’t matter he’s not going anywhere get a life! (phone slam).
    Other reps absolutely do not want to talk about the issue. Whether they’re afraid of political fallout or kneecapping or cement shoes, We Americans are damn tired of the pall and want it all discussed in the open.

    What IS loony is to attribute debate about the Constitution to looniness. It’s absolutely a requirement!
    Obama’s father was Kenyan, that makes him ineligible per Minor v. Happersett, US v. Wong Kim Ark and Article II Section 1 Clause 5 since no statutory citizen can ever be a natural born citizen. Further he has no contemporaneous birth certificate even proving he is a US citizen at all, rather all corroboration states he was born in Kenya, making him an illegal alien since he never swore the naturalization oath (even though he is married to Michelle).
    He has NO authority to sue Arizona, to be doing anything. We need to scrape together this completely corrupted breakdown, and hold these silent people accountable NOW.

    And when someone makes a valid point, look how Rondeau’s ignorance and dislike of Obama skews her comments….

    IceTrey says:
    Sunday, July 18, 2010 at 4:10 PM
    One correction, the SecSt didn’t ask for his BC she asked for evidence of his citizenship. It could have been a BC, a passport or as he produced a certificate of naturalization. She also needed to verify he had been a citizen for 9 years. Obviously someone told her he was born in Mexico so she was just doing her job.
    ——————-
    Mrs. Rondeau replies: However, Obama was not asked to produce anything at all.

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/07/18/u-s-senate-hopeful-hector-maldonado-if-obama-ineligible-he-has-committed-high-crimes-and-possibly-treason/#comments

  16. avatar
    sfjeff July 21, 2010 at 1:30 pm #

    What nut jobs- really Maldonado is a birther dream candidate- deliusional and uninformed. i still don’t get how these supposed proud defenders of the Constitution come up with this special election crap. Where in the Constitution does it mention special elections?

    They literally make up whatever rules that fit their fantasy. Biden and Pelosi wouldn’t be eligible because they lied(?)- and Hilary because she was appointed by Obama. They completely ignore the third person in line of succession. And did they forget that the Secretary of Defense was not appointed by Obama?

    And Maldonado is calling for a 2 term limit for the President? Hasn’t he ever heard of the 22nd Amendment?

    “would be retroactive to the birth of America on July 4, 1776. It would stipulate that anyone seeking federal public office is bound to open all records ”

    First of all- what congressman would support this? Secondly- on the face of it, Maldonado’s proposal would mean that everything that George Bush signed off on as Director of the CIA would be an open record?

    What idiots

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 21, 2010 at 6:16 pm #

    Black Lion: http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/07/18/u-s-senate-hopeful-hector-maldonado-if-obama-ineligible-he-has-committed-high-crimes-and-possibly-treason/

    That article has been edited since you posted the text, including the removal of stuff about Sun Yat-Sen.

  18. avatar
    Black Lion July 21, 2010 at 9:38 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That article has been edited since you posted the text, including the removal of stuff about Sun Yat-Sen.

    Interesting…Did they inform the readers that the article was being edited?

  19. avatar
    Sxeptomaniac July 26, 2010 at 11:47 am #

    James: Obama was born in Kenya:
    http://catholicbook.com/catholicbook/testimony_from_mombasa.htm
    —–
    I happen to be Kenyan. I was born 1 month before Obama at Mombasa medical center. I am a teacher here at the MM Shaw Primary School in Kenya.I compared my birth certificate to the one that has been put on by Taitz and mine is exactly the same. I even have the same registrar and format. The type is identical.I am by nature a skeptical person. I teach science here and challenge most things that cannot be proven.So I went to an official registrar today and pulled up the picture on the web. They magnified it and determined it to be authentic. There is even a plaque with Registrar Lavenders name on it as he was a Brit and was in charge of the Registrar office from 1959 until January of 1964.The reason the date on the certificate says republic of Kenya is that we were a republic when the “copy” of the original was ordered.I stress the word “copy.”My copy also has republic of Kenya.So what you say is true about Kenya not being a republic at the time of Obama’s birth, however it was a republic when the copy was ordered.The birth certificate is genuine. I assure you it will be authenticated by a forensic auditor.We are very proud Obama was born here.We have a shrine for him and there are many people who remember his birth here as he had a white mother.They are being interviewed now by one of your media outlets.
    Fortunately they even have pictures of his parents with him immediately after his birth at the Mombasa hospital with the hospital in the back ground.
    It will be a proud day for us when it is proven that he was born here and a Kenyan became the most powerful man in the world.I encourage anyone to come here and visit.I will be happy to take you and show you the pictures at the hospital myself as well as my document and many others that are identical to what Taitz posted.God Bless.Kitau

    I’m not familiar with this particular hoax, but one look at the above, and I can tell this “Kitau” is not Kenyan. Whoever wrote that is a native English speaker. I’m around non-native speakers of English on a nearly daily basis, and they to not talk/write like that. While the author messes up punctuation, he/she still uses complex compound sentences such as, “Fortunately they even have pictures of his parents with him immediately after his birth at the Mombasa hospital with the hospital in the back ground.” Few foreign languages have this kind of structure, so most raised in them do not think this way, even after decades speaking and reading the language.

    Even extremely well-educated men, like a Congolese friend of mine who has a doctorate, do not have the same speech patterns as someone raised speaking English. There are the rare exceptions, who can completely absorb a style of speech with sufficient immersion, but someone born and still living in Kenya is not going to have that opportunity, even if they perhaps studied abroad for a while.

  20. avatar
    SluggoJD July 26, 2010 at 10:54 pm #

    Sxeptomaniac:
    I’m not familiar with this particular hoax, but one look at the above, and I can tell this “Kitau” is not Kenyan.Whoever wrote that is a native English speaker.I’m around non-native speakers of English on a nearly daily basis, and they to not talk/write like that.While the author messes up punctuation, he/she still uses complex compound sentences such as, “Fortunately they even have pictures of his parents with him immediately after his birth at the Mombasa hospital with the hospital in the back ground.” Few foreign languages have this kind of structure, so most raised in them do not think this way, even after decades speaking and reading the language.Even extremely well-educated men, like a Congolese friend of mine who has a doctorate, do not have the same speech patterns as someone raised speaking English.There are the rare exceptions, who can completely absorb a style of speech with sufficient immersion, but someone born and still living in Kenya is not going to have that opportunity, even if they perhaps studied abroad for a while.

    Wow, that “God Bless” at the end is so…ummm…familiar!

    http://www.africaguide.com/forums/read.php?9,19444

    (Lucas Smith I believe, after he launched his Ebay auctions, and before he had a fake BC)

    http://www.africaguide.com/forums/read.php?9,19776

    (Lucas again, with mocorrupt aka Jim Byrne closing the thread to tie up a loose end, as Kahunah.)

  21. avatar
    Jules July 27, 2010 at 6:45 am #

    Sxeptomaniac: There are the rare exceptions, who can completely absorb a style of speech with sufficient immersion, but someone born and still living in Kenya is not going to have that opportunity, even if they perhaps studied abroad for a while.

    I don’t agree that a Kenyan would be incapable of acquiring fluency in English to the level of that letter. English is an official language in Kenya, which is not the case in the Congo. Someone who is taught English from an early age is definitely capable of mastering its nuances.

    Needless to say, I still think the letter is a hoax based on the assertion that the writer’s own certificate is just like Obama’s. Even if Kenyan certificates from the 1960s were like the image that we have seen, the writer’s claim that Kenya was a republic in February 1964 contradicts the history of Kenya.

  22. avatar
    Sxeptomaniac July 27, 2010 at 10:22 am #

    Jules:
    I don’t agree that a Kenyan would be incapable of acquiring fluency in English to the level of that letter. English is an official language in Kenya, which is not the case in the Congo. Someone who is taught English from an early age is definitely capable of mastering its nuances.Needless to say, I still think the letter is a hoax based on the assertion that the writer’s own certificate is just like Obama’s. Even if Kenyan certificates from the 1960s were like the image that we have seen, the writer’s claim that Kenya was a republic in February 1964 contradicts the history of Kenya.

    I see your point, which is something I overlooked. However, I still find the speech patterns far too American in that hoax. Even though English is an official language in Kenya, I know most Africans who know English are going to be learning it as a second, third, etc. language (if they’re well-educated, probably their tribal language and Swahili at least). It’s pretty rare for that not to affect how they use English. I’m not saying that an African couldn’t be very proficient in English, but they don’t tend to form sentences the same way a native speaker would.