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CNN covers LTC Terry Lakin

Terry Lakin

CNN’s Rick Sanchez has named Terry Lakin to his list of “most intriguing” people in an article posted Sanchez’s CNN blog this afternoon.

CNN published a major article on Lakin Friday (August 6) on the date of his military arraignment, covering his career and the history of his case. CNN wrote:

Lakin wrote Obama in March, saying presidential contender Sen. John McCain willingly provided his own birth certificate and accusing the president of failing to do the same. Lakin alleges in the letter that Kenyan citizens claim Obama was born in Mombasa, Kenya’s second-largest city.

It is, of course, not true that John McCain ever released a birth certificate. This is further evidence that Lakin is acting on the basis of misinformation, perhaps having fallen in with the wrong crowd.

Is it just me, or is Terry Lakin totally lacking in affect?

248 Responses to CNN covers LTC Terry Lakin

  1. avatar
    charo August 8, 2010 at 12:14 am #

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2566634/posts

    I don’t think this will ultimately help LTC Lakin but I haven’t seen anyone cite this.

  2. avatar
    AnotherBird August 8, 2010 at 12:42 am #

    charo: I don’t think this will ultimately help LTC Lakin but I haven’t seen anyone cite this.

    No, you do hope that it will help Lakin, but it won’t. You don’t bother try and comprehend anything that you read do you. Lakin is going to jail for disobeying a lawful order.

  3. avatar
    Sean August 8, 2010 at 12:52 am #

    He served under Bush. Did Bush provide his birth certificate to Lakin, or did he just take that one on faith?

  4. avatar
    AnotherBird August 8, 2010 at 12:54 am #

    charo: …I don’t think this will ultimately help LTC Lakin but I haven’t seen anyone cite this.

    One trick the people use in order to deceive people is that they leave out relevant information. The images that are found at the link provided is missing information.

    When Dr. Conspiracy post an article he posts the entire article. Also, if there is a gross error he will include the text in quotes, explain why it is wrong, and provide references. This allow people to check his interpretation and the entire article.

    I have always been under the impression that this was taught in high school, and university.

  5. avatar
    Sean August 8, 2010 at 2:42 am #

    It’s still puzzling. Before you give up your career and freedom, wouldn’t you check the facts, then double check them? Lakin doesn’t care about facts.

    Let’s allow him to admit any evidence he wants to defend himself in this case and see what we get.

    Rumors.

    Then there’s that nasty ol’ COLB that Lakin doesn’t think is proof enough, but was specially designed to be good enough for court. That’s a tough one to explain away to the Judge.

  6. avatar
    obsolete August 8, 2010 at 3:12 am #

    From the Free Republic comments:

    To: bushpilot1

    I’d love to see 5000 troops refuse orders on the same basis as Ltc. Lakin.

    3 posted on 08/07/2010 8:29:17 PM PDT by B4Ranch (America was founded by MARKSMEN, not Marxists.)

    Why are these people so fond of treason? Republicans love of America is so shallow it can be flipped to hatred due to their new leader having skin color that is a few shades darker then previous leaders.

  7. avatar
    Lupin August 8, 2010 at 3:33 am #

    I was in Spain in the 70s when Franco was still kicking, ordering Basque youths to be garroted to death, and there was a certain mindless automaton stare that you learned to recognize among the faithful, the black shirts that usually weren’t part of the official guardia civil. Lakin has it. He is cannon fodder.

  8. avatar
    SluggoJD August 8, 2010 at 3:48 am #

    charo: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2566634/postsI don’t think this will ultimately help LTC Lakin but I haven’t seen anyone cite this.

    Nothing can or will help the disgraced moron, so how could you possibly think posting something on a message board could?

  9. avatar
    AnotherBird August 8, 2010 at 6:21 am #

    obsolete: From the Free Republic comments:To: bushpilot1I’d love to see 5000 troops refuse orders on the same basis as Ltc. Lakin.3 posted on 08/07/2010 8:29:17 PM PDT by B4Ranch (America was founded by MARKSMEN, not Marxists.)
    Why are these people so fond of treason? …

    It is that “they know not what they say.” However, it is a view that is inconsistent with the American identity.

  10. avatar
    charo August 8, 2010 at 7:27 am #

    I just posed something that I had not seen before. I NEVER GAVE MY OPINION on the matter.

  11. avatar
    charo August 8, 2010 at 7:28 am #

    On my personal view of Lakin.

  12. avatar
    charo August 8, 2010 at 8:13 am #

    Which is: he made a very serious mistake.

  13. avatar
    Passerby August 8, 2010 at 8:31 am #

    AnotherBird:
    No, you do hope that it will help Lakin, but it won’t. You don’t bother try and comprehend anything that you read do you. Lakin is going to jail for disobeying a lawful order.

    Hey, let’s be fair. She didn’t say anything about what she hoped, just what she thought–that it wouldn’t help him. There’s a difference between prediction and desire, and it looked to me like she was making a prediction.

    And, no, it’s not going to help him. I was just a lowly enlisted soldier for a while, a long time ago, but even I know that the unlawful orders thing just doesn’t work the way he says it works. If an order is unlawful, it’s because it’s ordering you to do something unlawful. To commit a crime. The whole idea behind it is that you’re always responsible for your own actions, even when you’re under orders. So if you’re ordered to commit a crime, and you do it, you’re still a criminal.

    So you have a positive duty to disobey those orders. But you don’t have any kind of duty to verify the qualifications of the person who gave them to you, let alone their superiors. The military could never work that way. It’d go against every principle of military discipline.

    What I don’t get is, why doesn’t LTC Lakin know this? He must have been taught that doctrine. I mean, I know they take it a little easy on medical officers when it comes to all the military tradition stuff, but still. This is pretty foundational. Isn’t it?

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 8, 2010 at 9:03 am #

    charo: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2566634/posts

    I don’t think this will ultimately help LTC Lakin but I haven’t seen anyone cite this.

    After a careful reading, I don’t think it will help either. While we all recognize the civilian control of the military in the US, and that the President is the Commander in Chief, operationally orders don’t come from the President.

    What I don’t understand is why Lakin’s attorney has said that they are going to file a motion to have the case dismissed. That is asking for no trial, no discovery, and no resolution (in their minds) whether Lankin’s questions about Obama were legitimate in the first place.

    The whole Lakin affair continues to baffle me.

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 8, 2010 at 9:10 am #

    Passerby: What I don’t get is, why doesn’t LTC Lakin know this? He must have been taught that doctrine. I mean, I know they take it a little easy on medical officers when it comes to all the military tradition stuff, but still. This is pretty foundational. Isn’t it?

    And I think it is fair to assume that Lakin does understand this. The only thing I can figure out is that Lakin believes that the eligibility question is bad for the country, and as a patriot he’s going to sacrifice his career to force resolution of the question. Only what he’s doing will just make the eligibility question weigh more heavily on the public discourse. Nothing will be resolved in his court martial, at least I don’t think it will. Lakin will join the list of others who have had their lives and careers ruined because they can’t tell the difference between fact and smear.

  16. avatar
    Reality Check August 8, 2010 at 9:55 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: After a careful reading, I don’t think it will help either. While we all recognize the civilian control of the military in the US, and that the President is the Commander in Chief, operationally orders don’t come from the President.

    Exactly. Tthe cited reference says that all military authority devolves from the president. That is what being Commander in Chief means. In the military structure there is one ultimate authority and the president is it. His subordinates give orders that carry the same authority as if they were personally given by the Commander in Chief within the guidelines of military law.

    The key point that Lakin and anyone who supports him are missing is that authority comes from the Office and not the man. The Constitution is written and has been amended so that at all times one and only one person has that command authority. This is so crucial that several amendments have been written to plug minor loopholes that existed such as who has the command authority in case the president is incapacitated. The Constitution also carefully lays out the circumstances upon which the command authority may be removed and given to another.

    The authors of the Constitution were reluctant to set up such authority in one person but the experience under the Articles of Confederation had convinced them that a stronger central authority was needed. They created the office of president and endowed it with specific powers and as a check specified the ways he could be removed from office. President Obama has held command authority since January 20,2009 at 12:01 PM and will continue to hold it until it passes to Joe Biden or an elected successor by one of the specific ways spelled out by law.

    This is a simple concept. That is why it is hard not to ascribe political or financial motives to what LTC Lakin is doing. The only other motives all involve stupidity and/or insanity.

  17. avatar
    HORUS August 8, 2010 at 11:27 am #

    Reality Check: The only other motives all involve stupidity and/or insanity.

    All stupid people may not be birfers, but all birfers are definitely stupid.

  18. avatar
    richCares August 8, 2010 at 11:35 am #

    “All stupid people may not be birfers, but all birfers are definitely stupid.”
    .
    you can fool some of the birthers some of the time
    you can fool all of the birthers all of time
    all of which allows pay pal buttons
    children will be children, birthers will be birthers.

  19. avatar
    Majority Will August 8, 2010 at 11:37 am #

    HORUS:
    All stupid people may not be birfers, but all birfers are definitely stupid.

    Or Lakin is being blackmailed (pun intended) or held hostage.

  20. avatar
    Bovril August 8, 2010 at 12:42 pm #

    No, you’ve all failed to follow the deep depravity of we Soros funded, NWO loving, UN blue helmetted Obots.

    Lakin is part of our dastardly plan to inflict socialist/nazi/commie health and dental care and pee of the flag, Constitution and apple pie

    We have replaced Lakin with a pre-programmed Manchurian Candidate clone. the same as we have done with ALL the judiciary and almost every Senator and Congressman.

    We will use him to cast doubt and ridicule on our mortal enemies the clean living, upright, predominately white, patriotic Birfers as we are so terrified that they will rise up out of their tattered Barcaloungers and waddle/stumble to DC.

    We know when they rise up in their tens of tens the avalanche will cause the military to rise from their slumber and strike down The Usurper and all his wicked minions.

    Lakin is out last best hope…..(until the next deluded fool comes along)

  21. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett August 8, 2010 at 12:54 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    What I don’t understand is why Lakin’s attorney has said that they are going to file a motion to have the case dismissed. That is asking for no trial, no discovery, and no resolution (in their minds) whether Lankin’s questions about Obama were legitimate in the first place.

    IANAL… but: that might be a sop to his legitimate, court-appointed JAG, who is most likely sitting in the corner with his head spinning around like he was the star of “The Exorcist” and wondering how he offended the gods of law and justice to be punished with this case.

    There’s most likely no chance whatsoever that a dismissal could occur in this case, but it seems a legitimate defense strategy to at least try, in the hopes that a sympathetic judge might concur with the defense’s reasoning, and avoid a trial altogether. At the very least, it couldn’t hurt.

    Any people who are lawyers, please feel free to chime in and tell me I’m smoking a bowl on this one. 🙂

  22. avatar
    Reality Check August 8, 2010 at 1:06 pm #

    J. Edward Tremlett: IANAL… but: that might be a sop to his legitimate, court-appointed JAG, who is most likely sitting in the corner with his head spinning around like he was the star of “The Exorcist” and wondering how he offended the gods of law and justice to be punished with this case.

    According to Phil Cave, MAJ Kemkis is a very capable JAG officer. http://www.caaflog.com/2010/08/06/phil-caves-court-martial-trial-practice-blog-has-a-synopsis-of-the-lakin-39a/#comments

    It sounds like Lakin is lucky to have him – more than he deserves, IMO.

  23. avatar
    Sef August 8, 2010 at 1:16 pm #

    Reality Check:
    According to Phil Cave, MAJ Kemkis is a very capable JAG officer. http://www.caaflog.com/2010/08/06/phil-caves-court-martial-trial-practice-blog-has-a-synopsis-of-the-lakin-39a/#commentsIt sounds like Lakin is lucky to have him – more than he deserves, IMO.

    It sounds like the Army was not about to let Lakin attempt an IAC suit after conviction. If Lakin was so stupid as to take the advice of Jensen over that of Kemkes then that is his problem. No doubt Kemkes is meticulously documenting everything. It will make interesting reading sometime in the distant future.

  24. avatar
    G August 8, 2010 at 2:20 pm #

    Sef:
    It sounds like the Army was not about to let Lakin attempt an IAC suit after conviction.If Lakin was so stupid as to take the advice of Jensen over that of Kemkes then that is his problem.No doubt Kemkes is meticulously documenting everything. It will make interesting reading sometime in the distant future.

    What does IAC stand for?

  25. avatar
    Sef August 8, 2010 at 2:29 pm #

    G:
    What does IAC stand for?

    Inadequate defense counsel.

  26. avatar
    Majority Will August 8, 2010 at 2:41 pm #

    Sef:
    Inadequate defense counsel.

    It’s too bad Lakin wasn’t bitten by a dog preventing him from following orders. Rolf would have lapped that up or at least demanded a “STAY.” Good boy.

  27. avatar
    jamese777 August 8, 2010 at 2:49 pm #

    In my humble opinion, a way to understand what Lieutenant Colonel Lakin is doing is through understanding the symptoms of “Obama Derangement Syndrome.” (O.D.S.) In the first decade of the 21st Century there were some folks on the left side of the political spectrum who suffered from “Bush Derangement Syndrome.” (B.D.S.) Today, it is more likely to be conservatives suffering from O.D.S. The farther to the right the conservative, the more severe the symptoms. The farther to the left the liberal, the more severe the symptoms were of B.D.S.
    American politics has become so polarized and so devoid of civility that a mental disorder has become pervasive among some susceptible individuals.
    When attempting to interact with deranged individuals, logic, reason, balance, objectivity and fairness go right out the window. Psychotropic medications are indicated.

  28. avatar
    BatGuano August 8, 2010 at 3:10 pm #

    the question that i’d love to ask Lakin is fairly simple:

    ” what is the difference between you and a soldier refusing an order during WWII because of a rumor they heard from ‘tokyo rose’ ? “

  29. avatar
    Sef August 8, 2010 at 3:16 pm #

    BatGuano: the question that i’d love to ask Lakin is fairly simple:” what is the difference between you and a soldier refusing an order during WWII because of a rumor they heard from tokyo rose’ ? ”

    Or “Why did you feel it was legal for you to accept your pay since Jan 20,2009?”
    Or “Why did you feel it was legal for you to accept the order to attend your hearing on Friday?”
    Or “Why did you wait until you received an order to ready yourself for deployment to a war zone?”

  30. avatar
    Gregory August 8, 2010 at 3:24 pm #

    Sef:
    No doubt Kemkes is meticulously documenting everything. It will make interesting reading sometime in the distant future.

    I believe such documentation is usually in the form of CYA letters which are added to the defendant’s file.

  31. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 8, 2010 at 3:33 pm #

    Reality Check: It sounds like Lakin is lucky to have [Army defense counsel Kemkis] – more than he deserves, IMO.

    Courts martial of officers of Lakin’s rank are rare. I don’t doubt that the Army has taken this very seriously, including the assignment of an excellent military attorney.

  32. avatar
    The Sheriff's A Ni- August 8, 2010 at 3:41 pm #

    J. Edward Tremlett: IANAL… but: that might be a sop to his legitimate, court-appointed JAG, who is most likely sitting in the corner with his head spinning around like he was the star of “The Exorcist” and wondering how he offended the gods of law and justice to be punished with this case.

    What I was thinking too. Kemkis may have convinced Lakin in a moment of relative lucidity.

    jamese777: In my humble opinion, a way to understand what Lieutenant Colonel Lakin is doing is through understanding the symptoms of “Obama Derangement Syndrome.” (O.D.S.) In the first decade of the 21st Century there were some folks on the left side of the political spectrum who suffered from “Bush Derangement Syndrome.” (B.D.S.) Today, it is more likely to be conservatives suffering from O.D.S. The farther to the right the conservative, the more severe the symptoms. The farther to the left the liberal, the more severe the symptoms were of B.D.S.

    I prefer the term ‘Obama Trauma’ myself.

  33. avatar
    BatGuano August 8, 2010 at 5:31 pm #

    Sef:
    Or “Why did you feel it was legal for you to accept the order to attend your hearing on Friday?”

    as funny as this sounds……… it is is a very appropriate question to lakin’s charges.

  34. avatar
    BigGuy August 8, 2010 at 5:42 pm #

    OK, just a particular peeve, in case anyone from CNN is reading this:

    The “major article” that Doc refers to above contains a serious misstatement: “Obama has made public an unsigned “certification of live birth…””

    This gives the impression that the COLB does not have the usual imprimatur of an official document. Of course it has a raised seal and bears the signature stamp of Alvin Onaka, Hawaii’s Registrar of Vital Statistics.

    The error could be a botched-up version of the birther complaint that COLBs, unlike some earlier forms of Birth Certificate, are computer-generated and do not include a doctor’s signature.

  35. avatar
    Phil Cave August 8, 2010 at 7:35 pm #

    Yes, in person too. But I wouldn’t attribute that to a mental illness, etc. I think he’s lost. By that I mean he’s in an environment that is completely foreign to him. He’s gone his whole life without being an object of criticism in this fashion. That’s a new and hard to handle feeling. I have yet to meet a senior officer or enlisted client who is comfortable being in the hot seat in such a manner. That leads to uncertainty in some and they become quiescent. I’ve certainly had senior officer (and enlisted) clients with the same demeanor. But others remain confident, voluable, demanding (needy), forward-leaning.

  36. avatar
    misha August 8, 2010 at 7:51 pm #

    Bovril: Lakin is part of our dastardly plan to inflict socialist/nazi/commie health and dental care and pee of the flag, Constitution and apple pieWe have replaced Lakin with a pre-programmed Manchurian Candidate clone. the same as we have done with ALL the judiciary and almost every Senator and Congressman.

    As an officer with the the International Jewish Conspiracy, I can confirm Bovril is correct. We are controlling everything from our subterranean command centers in New York and Jerusalem.

  37. avatar
    Eugene August 8, 2010 at 8:12 pm #

    “Only what he’s doing will just make the eligibility question weigh more heavily on the public discourse. Nothing will be resolved in his court martial”

    Dr: WHAT should be resolved? the birthers won’t accept any evidence contradicting their claims anyway; so what is it you suggest could resolve this? It looks like you are suggesting the administration isn’t doing enough to resolve it.

  38. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 8, 2010 at 8:46 pm #

    Eugene: Dr: WHAT should be resolved? the birthers won’t accept any evidence contradicting their claims anyway; so what is it you suggest could resolve this? It looks like you are suggesting the administration isn’t doing enough to resolve it.

    Remember that Lakin is simply asking for the birth certificate. I think that for him, the long form obtained by a military court directly from the State of Hawaii would resolve his concerns. However, he will certainly not get that by asking for his case to be dismissed. He probably won’t get that if his case is not dismissed.

  39. avatar
    Eugene August 8, 2010 at 8:52 pm #

    “Remember that Lakin is simply asking for the birth certificate.”

    Well Lakin Got the birth certificate — you know the one the constitution’s full faith and credit clause says is ENOUGH… Providing any more than that would be foolish and unnecessary.

  40. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 8, 2010 at 9:00 pm #

    Phil Cave: Yes, in person too. But I wouldn’t attribute that to a mental illness, etc. I think he’s lost. By that I mean he’s in an environment that is completely foreign to him.

    Phil, thanks for dropping by. Your web site is a great resource.

    I got that blank impression from Lakin when he did the interview on CNN with his attorney Jensen. Your phrase “lost” fits well. I used “affect” because I heard it on Law and Order once. 😉

  41. avatar
    BigGuy August 8, 2010 at 9:18 pm #

    Hey, Doc, what’s your thought on this?

    To what extent do we know that there is a “long form” that the DoH could conceivably make available? I mean, it is probably safe to say that Hawaii still has all the data on Obama that it ever had, and could certainly issue a document that contained the same data as the contemporaneous birth document (though, doctor’s signature? I wonder).

    But to what extent are we certain that the original hard copy exists? Are we even certain that a microfiche or something similar exists? In other words, are we currently 100% sure that Hawaii is capable of making an essentially photographic image of the original document?

  42. avatar
    Joey August 8, 2010 at 10:14 pm #

    BigGuy: Hey, Doc, what’s your thought on this?To what extent do we know that there is a “long form” that the DoH could conceivably make available? I mean, it is probably safe to say that Hawaii still has all the data on Obama that it ever had, and could certainly issue a document that contained the same data as the contemporaneous birth document (though, doctor’s signature? I wonder).But to what extent are we certain that the original hard copy exists? Are we even certain that a microfiche or something similar exists? In other words, are we currently 100% sure that Hawaii is capable of making an essentially photographic image of the original document?

    Please note the word “original” in Dr. Fukino’s statement:
    For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008
    STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO
    “There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawaii Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
    “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
    “No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii.”

  43. avatar
    obsolete August 8, 2010 at 10:28 pm #

    jamese777: In my humble opinion, a way to understand what Lieutenant Colonel Lakin is doing is through understanding the symptoms of “Obama Derangement Syndrome.” (O.D.S.) In the first decade of the 21st Century there were some folks on the left side of the political spectrum who suffered from “Bush Derangement Syndrome.” (B.D.S.)

    I confess. I suffered a moderate case of B.D.S. in the past. I still maintain that the Supreme Court interference was a tragedy. After 9/11, I had small, nagging doubts about the official story. But people I trusted (such as Greg Palast) said they saw no evidence of Bush involvement, and neither did I. Incompetency was more likely than involvement. I had sporadic fears about the 2004 election being postponed (esp. after Giuliani wanted to postpone NYC’s mayoral election), but, of course, it didn’t happen. I had heard about the FEMA camp crap during the Clinton years, didn’t believe it then, and didn’t believe it under Bush either.

    In short, most of the extreme B.D.S. never took a firm hold on me, although there were real problems and valid fears regarding the Bush admin. I can see a bit of myself, and how I might have become, in those who suffer from O.D.S.. I want to tell them,this too shall pass. Obama will have a peaceful transfer of power when the time comes, and America won’t fall under sharia law, martial law, or socialism, or fascism. There will be no ACORN/Black Panther brownshirts. You will keep your guns. The worst you fear won’t happen, and years from now you will probably look back and wonder why you were so scared, and regret having so little faith in the democratic process.

  44. avatar
    Majority Will August 8, 2010 at 10:34 pm #

    obsolete:
    I confess. I suffered a moderate case of B.D.S. in the past. I still maintain that the Supreme Court interference was a tragedy. After 9/11, I had small, nagging doubts about the official story.But people I trusted (such as Greg Palast) said they saw no evidence of Bush involvement, and neither did I. Incompetency was more likely than involvement. I had sporadic fears about the 2004 election being postponed (esp. after Giuliani wanted to postpone NYC’s mayoral election), but, of course, it didn’t happen. I had heard about the FEMA camp crap during the Clinton years, didn’t believe it then, and didn’t believe it under Bush either.In short, most of the extreme B.D.S. never took a firm hold on me, although there were real problems and valid fears regarding the Bush admin. I can see a bit of myself, and how I might have become, in those who suffer from O.D.S.. I want to tell them,this too shall pass. Obama will have a peaceful transfer of power when the time comes, and America won’t fall under sharia law, martial law, or socialism, or fascism. There will be no ACORN/Black Panther brownshirts. You will keep your guns. The worst you fear won’t happen, and years from now you will probably look back and wonder why you were so scared, and regret having so little faith in the democratic process.

    “You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror.” –Bush in an interview with CBS News’ Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 8, 2010 at 11:04 pm #

    BigGuy: But to what extent are we certain that the original hard copy exists? Are we even certain that a microfiche or something similar exists? In other words, are we currently 100% sure that Hawaii is capable of making an essentially photographic image of the original document?

    Dr. Fukino in her press release stated that she personally verified that President Obama’s “original birth certificate” is on file. Whether the record is on microfilm, optical disk or paper I don’t know, but the image is still there in some form. I think it is likely that the paper copy is still around as well as on microfilm.

  46. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 8, 2010 at 11:06 pm #

    Majority Will: I confess. I suffered a moderate case of B.D.S. in the past.

    I still hold the opinion that Bush did cocaine at Camp David when his father was president, although I could be persuaded otherwise.

  47. avatar
    Sean August 8, 2010 at 11:12 pm #

    What Lakin is suggesting is that Obama defend his citizenship in court to Lakin’s satisfaction.

    Lakin would like to play the role of judge, but dismiss a document legally sufficient to prove US citizenship.

  48. avatar
    Majority Will August 8, 2010 at 11:16 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I still hold the opinion that Bush did cocaine at Camp David when his father was president, although I could be persuaded otherwise.

    I don’t have evidence but I’ve wondered if part of Bush’s motivation to pursue Saddam Hussein was Hussein’s threat to kill his father and his father’s failure to get the job done in the first Gulf war.

  49. avatar
    G August 9, 2010 at 12:10 am #

    obsolete: In short, most of the extreme B.D.S. never took a firm hold on me, although there were real problems and valid fears regarding the Bush admin. I can see a bit of myself, and how I might have become, in those who suffer from O.D.S.. I want to tell them,this too shall pass. Obama will have a peaceful transfer of power when the time comes, and America won’t fall under sharia law, martial law, or socialism, or fascism. There will be no ACORN/Black Panther brownshirts. You will keep your guns. The worst you fear won’t happen, and years from now you will probably look back and wonder why you were so scared, and regret having so little faith in the democratic process.

    Thanks for sharing. I think those were some good examples as well as good advice.

    I don’t know if ODS sufferers are even reachable to listen to such wise advice at this stage of their “illness”. Tragically, the lesson might only be something that one will even listen to long after it could do any good for them..

  50. avatar
    G August 9, 2010 at 12:34 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Remember that Lakin is simply asking for the birth certificate. I think that for him, the long form obtained by a military court directly from the State of Hawaii would resolve his concerns. However, he will certainly not get that by asking for his case to be dismissed. He probably won’t get that if his case is not dismissed.

    Dr. C – I assume that you are speaking from what you view are the motives of Lakin and what you personally think he would be satisfied with as evidence, thus explaining why you find his latest tactic to ask for his case to be dismissed to run contrary to his stated goals. —Would that be a correct analysis of what you are conveying here?

    I also want to verify that you are not actually advocating for a position that the government should actually give in or acquiesce to his demands.

    In terms of the dismissal tactic appearing to be contrary to Lakin’s “stated” goal – on that aspect I agree.

    However, I suspect that like many true-believer birthers, Lakin’s mind has already been made up that Obama is not NBC and that despite any of his claims otherwise, he would retain that position even if Fukino herself hand-delivered his magical “holy grail long form” to him and pointed out every field that validated that Obama was born there, exactly as the COLB already shows. He might get silent for a few minutes as he struggles with his cognitive dissonance… But then he would probably not miss a beat in moving right to claiming it too was a fraud or that it doesn’t matter because of the 2 parents nonsense…etc.

    Eugene: Well Lakin Got the birth certificate — you know the one the constitution’s full faith and credit clause says is ENOUGH… Providing any more than that would be foolish and unnecessary.

    I agree. Plus it sets a very, very bad precedent in law, military procedures. and governance in general.

    Once you start giving in and catering to the mere whims of any crankpot or dissatisfied person, the ability to maintain order and the follow the rule of law is severely compromised, as is the entire notion of innocent until proven guilty.

    I also just wanted to throw in there is no requirement that Obama ever had to even provide his COLB in the first place. Had he never even made that public, Lakin would still have no rights to request that documentation from the President.

  51. avatar
    G August 9, 2010 at 12:40 am #

    Majority Will: I don’t have evidence but I’ve wondered if part of Bush’s motivation to pursue Saddam Hussein was Hussein’s threat to kill his father and his father’s failure to get the job done in the first Gulf war.

    Actually, I always wondered about that too. Even as far back as when he was just campaigning to become President, there were quite a few people, myself included, who often openly remarked that if he got elected that meant the US would find a reason to go back and finish the war in Iraq and capture or kill Saddam…

  52. avatar
    Don Draper August 9, 2010 at 6:14 am #

    Sean: What Lakin is suggesting is that Obama defend his citizenship in court to Lakin’s satisfaction.Lakin would like to play the role of judge, but dismiss a document legally sufficient to proveUS citizenship.

    Lakin is dismissive of an internet image, not a document. An internet image shown to be a forgery.

    Once Lakin sees the actual COLB is different from the image posted on the internet, Lakin will want to view all of the birth records. Once the Soetoro adooption records are unsealed, it won’t be long before Barack’s ineligibility to be POTUS will be revealed.

  53. avatar
    Dave August 9, 2010 at 7:02 am #

    Don Draper:
    Lakin is dismissive of an internet image, not a document. An internet image shown to be a forgery.Once Lakin sees the actual COLB is different from the image posted on the internet, Lakin will want to view all of the birth records. Once the Soetoro adooption records are unsealed, it won’t be long before Barack’s ineligibility to be POTUS will be revealed.

    If you’re going to tell us what LTC Lakin wants to see, maybe you should first wander over to his website and read what it says there. He has never said he wants to see the COLB, and he’s never said he’d be satisfied if it matched the posted image. He never said anything remotely resembling that. He also never asked for any adoption records.

  54. avatar
    ellid August 9, 2010 at 8:04 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I still hold the opinion that Bush did cocaine at Camp David when his father was president, although I could be persuaded otherwise.

    I still hold the opinion that the Bush administration knew *something* was going to happen on 9/11, although I doubt they knew exactly what. And no, I’ve never been a truther or watched their amateur videos. You see, I know someone related to an FBI agent. Said FBI agent was assigned to Manhattan, and the day before 9/11 his entire office was told to report at 4:30 am instead of 7:30, their usual start of shift.

    So…someone knew that something was going to happen. But does this equal a government conspiracy? Not to me. It’s more likely that it’s a sign of *lack* of knowledge since the agents reported to their office, not the airport nor the WTC.

  55. avatar
    AnotherBird August 9, 2010 at 8:14 am #

    Sean: What Lakin is suggesting is that Obama defend his citizenship in court to Lakin’s satisfaction.

    Lakin would like to play the role of judge, but dismiss a document legally sufficient to prove US citizenship.

    Lakin is suggesting is that president Obama produce proof of Obama’s citizenship to Lakin’s satisfaction, or be forced to produce proof in court.

    Now that he avenue that he has chosen will not produce the results he desired, he wants to just walk away. He wants to play prosecutor, defense and judge all at the same time.

  56. avatar
    Don Draper August 9, 2010 at 8:37 am #

    Dave:
    If you’re going to tell us what LTC Lakin wants to see, maybe you should first wander over to his website and read what it says there. He has never said he wants to see the COLB, and he’s never said he’d be satisfied if it matched the posted image. He never said anything remotely resembling that. He also never asked for any adoption records.

    Why don’t you wander over to Lakin’s website and let us know whats going on by posting on it on the occasional open thread? And since we’re being snippy, is it Lakin’s website or the website of a non-profit who is using the Lakin issue to raise funds?

  57. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 9, 2010 at 8:53 am #

    Don Draper: Why don’t you wander over to Lakin’s website and let us know whats going on by posting on it on the occasional open thread? And since we’re being snippy, is it Lakin’s website or the website of a non-profit who is using the Lakin issue to raise funds?

    Funds for what? To pocket? What exactly is their defense? They sure haven’t presented one

  58. avatar
    Dave August 9, 2010 at 9:01 am #

    Don Draper:
    Why don’t you wander over to Lakin’s website and let us know whats going on by posting on it on the occasional open thread? And since we’re being snippy, is it Lakin’s website or the website of a non-profit who is using the Lakin issue to raise funds?

    This comment is a little hard to understand. People post here about LTC Lakin all the time, most of which comes from his website. Since you’re a regular here, it seems impossible that you don’t know that.

    And you ask a most pertinent question about the website, but I think it’s fair to call it LTC Lakin’s website since it’s where his lawyers post all his many press releases. However, if know of some way that website is acting contrary to LTC Lakin’s interests, I’m sure we’ll be fascinated to read about it.

  59. avatar
    Don Draper August 9, 2010 at 9:46 am #

    Dave:
    This comment is a little hard to understand. People post here about LTC Lakin all the time, most of which comes from his website. Since you’re a regular here, it seems impossible that you don’t know that.And you ask a most pertinent question about the website, but I think it’s fair to call it LTC Lakin’s website since it’s where his lawyers post all his many press releases. However, if know of some way that website is acting contrary to LTC Lakin’s interests, I’m sure we’ll be fascinated to read about it.

    Actually, most of the comments about Lakin comes from information posted on threads started by Doc on the OCT website.

    Doc’s thread is about CNN’s article on Lakin. CNN quotes Lakin from a news release by the American Patriot Foundation with a comment about pursuing Obama’s eligibility and not only his original birth record.

    Lakin is making nearly $8,000 per month and he can’t afford a good lawyer? I think there is some merit to the argument Lakin is only in this for the notoriety.

  60. avatar
    G August 9, 2010 at 10:20 am #

    Dave: If you’re going to tell us what LTC Lakin wants to see, maybe you should first wander over to his website and read what it says there. He has never said he wants to see the COLB, and he’s never said he’d be satisfied if it matched the posted image. He never said anything remotely resembling that. He also never asked for any adoption records.

    LOL! Of course it isn’t, but that’s not the point with Sven. Sven’s “talent” is creating his own fictional reality. This must be his version of LTC Lakin as a character in his latest chapter of Barry & The Pirates – Chapter 22: Escape from Leavenworth 😉

  61. avatar
    Dick Whitman August 9, 2010 at 10:33 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Funds for what?To pocket?What exactly is their defense?They sure haven’t presented one

    It’s starting to look like Lakin is only concerned with Barack’s long form birth certificate. Now that he has seen the FOIA responses he wants to punt the issue with a Motion to Dismiss.

    Of course, Obots will use this as their “October Surprise” for the run up to the 2010 election.

  62. avatar
    Dick_Whitman August 9, 2010 at 10:34 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Funds for what?To pocket?What exactly is their defense?They sure haven’t presented one

    It’s starting to look like Lakin is only concerned with Barack’s long form birth certificate. Now that he has seen the FOIA responses he wants to punt the issue with a Motion to Dismiss.

    Of course, Obots will use this as their “October Surprise” for the run up to the 2010 election.

  63. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 9, 2010 at 10:35 am #

    Dick Whitman: It’s starting to look like Lakin is only concerned with Barack’s long form birth certificate. Now that he has seen the FOIA responses he wants to punt the issue with a Motion to Dismiss.Of course, Obots will use this as their “October Surprise” for the run up to the 2010 election.

    Umm not exactly. A motion to dismiss is a common lawyer tactic for the defense. This is a hail mary pass by the Lakin team. Lakin is in deep crap and he knows it.

  64. avatar
    Majority Will August 9, 2010 at 10:37 am #

    Don Draper:
    Actually, most of the comments about Lakin comes from information posted on threads started by Doc on the OCT website.Doc’s thread is about CNN’s article on Lakin. CNN quotes Lakin from a news release by the American Patriot Foundation with a comment about pursuing Obama’s eligibility and not only his original birth record. Lakin is making nearly $8,000 per month and he can’t afford a good lawyer? I think there is some merit to the argument Lakin is only in this for the notoriety.

    Sven, you do know that posting under 30+ names does not count as 30+ separate opinions?

    We’ll call them Svenbots.

  65. avatar
    Bovril August 9, 2010 at 11:17 am #

    Ohhhhh “October suprise”, m’mmmmm ice cream.

  66. avatar
    Majority Will August 9, 2010 at 11:20 am #

    Bovril: Ohhhhh “October suprise”, m’mmmmm ice cream.

    I thought it was more like the Cubs winning the World Series.

  67. avatar
    AnotherBird August 9, 2010 at 11:20 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Umm not exactly. A motion to dismiss is a common lawyer tactic for the defense.This is a hail mary pass by the Lakin team. Lakin is in deep crap and he knows it.

    This entire exercise by the Lakin team was to force Obama to resign. I think that the Lakin team has many more tactics of desperation, all trying to find their way out of the “crap” they jumped in.

  68. avatar
    Sef August 9, 2010 at 11:23 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Umm not exactly.A motion to dismiss is a common lawyer tactic for the defense.This is a hail mary pass by the Lakin team.Lakin is in deep crap and he knows it.

    It may be a hail mary pass, but only the cheerleaders are in the stadium.

  69. avatar
    Bovril August 9, 2010 at 3:59 pm #

    misha: As an officer with the the International Jewish Conspiracy, I can confirm Bovril is correct. We are controlling everything from our subterranean command centers in New York and Jerusalem.

    It’s not usually known but the primary dissemination and programmimg centers are the pretzel, “dirty water” hotdog and felafel carts with the controllers beimg the freeze dried elderly Korean women who magically appear at the first hint of rain and the disapperar in the sun…..You never see them arrive….you never see them leave…..8-)

  70. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 9, 2010 at 4:33 pm #

    Majority Will: I thought it was more like the Cubs winning the World Series.

    I thought it was some obscure sexual term like the dirty sanchez…. Yeah how much for an october surprise?

  71. avatar
    Majority Will August 9, 2010 at 4:48 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    I thought it was some obscure sexual term like the dirty sanchez…. Yeah how much for an october surprise?

    Yikes!

  72. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny August 9, 2010 at 4:56 pm #

    misha: As an officer with the the International Jewish Conspiracy, I can confirm Bovril is correct. We are controlling everything from our subterranean command centers in New York and Jerusalem.

    What do you think about the following joke I heard during my last visit to the Ukraine?
    “Before communism, all respectable business was done by Jews. Thieving and reiving was done by gypsies and waging war was left to the Russians. Today, respectable business is done by gypsies, thieving and reiving is for the Russians and waging war is reserved for Jews.”

  73. avatar
    Slartibartfast August 9, 2010 at 5:22 pm #

    Majority Will: We’ll call them Svenbots.

    How about Svenpuppets or Svenicles or Svenlings? 😉

  74. avatar
    mikeyes August 9, 2010 at 5:33 pm #

    Majority Will: I don’t have evidence but I’ve wondered if part of Bush’s motivation to pursue Saddam Hussein was Hussein’s threat to kill his father and his father’s failure to get the job done in the first Gulf war.

    Please (and this is totally off topic), when I was sitting on the banks of the Euphrates in 1991 and heard that I was not going north, I thought it was the best decision Bush 1 could have made. I told the others with me that “we will be here ten years from now if we decided to take Iraq. By “we” I meant the people present at the conversation. Virtually everyone there knew what would happen – and it did when Bush 2 decided to try it.

    Desert Storm acheived its goal. Kuwait was free and the Iraqi military was diminished to a very secondary role. There was no reason to go any further.

  75. avatar
    obsolete August 9, 2010 at 5:40 pm #

    Paul Pieniezny:
    What do you think about the following joke I heard during my last visit to the Ukraine?
    “Before communism, all respectable business was done by Jews. Thieving and reiving was done by gypsies and waging war was left to the Russians. Today, respectable business is done by gypsies, thieving and reiving is for the Russians and waging war is reserved for Jews.”

    Reminds me of the joke:
    In Heaven the French are the cooks, the Germans are the engineers, and the English are the policemen. In Hell, the English are the cooks, the French are the engineers, and the Germans are the policemen.

  76. avatar
    Majority Will August 9, 2010 at 6:15 pm #

    mikeyes:
    Please (and this is totally off topic), when I was sitting on the banks of the Euphrates in 1991 and heard that I was not going north, I thought it was the best decision Bush 1 could have made.I told the others with me that “we will be here ten years from now if we decided to take Iraq.By “we” I meant the people present at the conversation. Virtually everyone there knew what would happen – and it did when Bush 2 decided to try it.Desert Storm acheived its goal.Kuwait was free and the Iraqi military was diminished to a very secondary role.There was no reason to go any further.

    I agree but it also doesn’t negate the possible motives I mentioned.

    Unchecked hubris and fear have been underlying excuses for war for thousands of years.

  77. avatar
    Majority Will August 9, 2010 at 6:17 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    How about Svenpuppets or Svenicles or Svenlings?

    In a Svenn diagram?

  78. avatar
    jamese777 August 9, 2010 at 6:19 pm #

    mikeyes: Please (and this is totally off topic), when I was sitting on the banks of the Euphrates in 1991 and heard that I was not going north, I thought it was the best decision Bush 1 could have made. I told the others with me that “we will be here ten years from now if we decided to take Iraq. By “we” I meant the people present at the conversation. Virtually everyone there knew what would happen – and it did when Bush 2 decided to try it.Desert Storm acheived its goal. Kuwait was free and the Iraqi military was diminished to a very secondary role. There was no reason to go any further.

    Very well said and I couldn’t agree more.
    Rumsfeld admitted it publically once. The invasion of Iraq was to get revenge on radical Islamic fundamentalism for 9/11 and the (poor) target was the best identifiable one to fight a conventional war against that we could win. While it didn’t quite work out that way, Saddam is dead, we did insure ourselves that he didn’t have WMD and Iraq is somewhat of an ally in the Muslim world.

  79. avatar
    Keith August 9, 2010 at 7:29 pm #

    mikeyes:
    Please (and this is totally off topic), when I was sitting on the banks of the Euphrates in 1991 and heard that I was not going north, I thought it was the best decision Bush 1 could have made.I told the others with me that “we will be here ten years from now if we decided to take Iraq.By “we” I meant the people present at the conversation. Virtually everyone there knew what would happen – and it did when Bush 2 decided to try it.Desert Storm acheived its goal.Kuwait was free and the Iraqi military was diminished to a very secondary role.There was no reason to go any further.

    You are absolutely correct.

    Never-the-less I have absolutely no trouble giving credence to the scenario whereby Dubya, Cheney, and other Haliburton and Enron ‘smart men’ are in the owners box at a Rangers game, smoking ceegars and sippin’ on bourbon and branch, and discussing an appropriate political path for the Shrub.

    The puppetmasters would have promised Dubya to put him into the Statehouse, and eventually a shot at the White House at the trifling expense of his soul. The response would have clearly been:

    “Soul? What soul? Get me into the White House and I’ll kick Saddam’s butt and finish what Daddy couldn’t! Then he and mom will have to give me some respect. I deserve it. I’ll show that rotten Jeb and Daddy both who the real man in the family is.”

  80. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 9, 2010 at 7:33 pm #

    jamese777:
    Very well said and I couldn’t agree more.
    Rumsfeld admitted it publically once. The invasion of Iraq was to get revenge on radical Islamic fundamentalism for 9/11 and the (poor) target was the best identifiable one to fight a conventional war against that we could win. While it didn’t quite work out that way, Saddam is dead, we did insure ourselves that he didn’t have WMD and Iraq is somewhat of an ally in the Muslim world.

    Cheney also said it would be a mistake in 1993 to invade. Apparently older Cheney didn’t get the memo

  81. avatar
    Gregory August 9, 2010 at 11:41 pm #

    obsolete:
    Reminds me of the joke:
    In Heaven the French are the cooks, the Germans are the engineers, and the English are the policemen. In Hell, the English are the cooks, the French are the engineers, and the Germans are the policemen.

    Please try to get your European stereotypes straight: In Heaven, the cooks are French, the police are British, the lovers are Italian and everything is organized by the Germans.

    In Hell, the cooks are British, the police are French, the lovers are German and everything is organized by the Italians.

    🙂

  82. avatar
    misha August 9, 2010 at 11:58 pm #

    Paul Pieniezny: What do you think about the following joke I heard during my last visit to the Ukraine?“Before communism, all respectable business was done by Jews. Thieving and reiving was done by gypsies and waging war was left to the Russians. Today, respectable business is done by gypsies, thieving and reiving is for the Russians and waging war is reserved for Jews.”

    One Russian is a revolution, two Russians is the Kremlin, three Russians is the Red Army, and four Russians is the Budapest String Quartet.

    waging war is reserved for Jews

    Only settlers, neocons, and Bibi.

  83. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny August 10, 2010 at 6:43 am #

    Gregory: Please try to get your European stereotypes straight: In Heaven, the cooks are French, the police are British, the lovers are Italian and everything is organized by the Germans.In Hell, the cooks are British, the police are French, the lovers are German and everything is organized by the Italians.

    OK, but we are talkng politics. (Politics was not in that Ukrainian joke, but politics in Russia was always for the Germans – of course, it takes some time to explain why Putin is a German.) So, here is this modern version of Reagan’s joke ( http://socialaffairsunit.org.uk/digipub/content/view/11/27/1/3/ )

    How do you tell Paul Pieniezny at a South Carolina polling booth?
    He’s the one who is trying to vote for Al Greene.
    And how do you know that the Italians are in charge of the election?
    Al Greene wins.
    Perhaps the Italians can get him to beat DeMint too, so the birfers can join a different conspiracy theory. If not, I think this one is a good alternative: http://zapatopi.net/belgium/

    [This post edited by Doc C to correct the spelling of Mr. Greene.]

  84. avatar
    Black Lion August 10, 2010 at 2:55 pm #

    From the delusional “Conservative Monster”….

    By Steve Cooper
    The Conservative Monster.com

    I guess the Beck puppets can not handle the truth? Lt Col. Lakin is being terrorized and Mr. Constitution Glenn Beck IGNORES the entire incident like it is not even happening. They hate when I expose that Beck is reading the SAME SCRIPT as Chris Matthews and the other leftists on the Obama eligibility issue.

    Do not tell me about a newspaper announcement in the paper, because that is like giving me a coupon to Target as proof of birth.

    A few months back, Beck was spinning the issue real nice when he wrote that Obama was a U.S. Citizen on his blackboard, but he failed to mention that the president of the United States is supposed to be a “natural born citizen”. A natural born citizen is a child that is born to TWO U.S. Citizens, unlike Obama’s father that was a Kenyan of British Citizenship.

    Glenn, I dare you to write this on your blackboard:

    Investigate Obama’s “Natural Born Citizenship”, because his father was a KENYAN, not an American. Plus, his mother was not old enough to transfer her citizenship either.

    It is no secret that Fox News is censoring the entire eligibility story from being reported fairly, because they do not want the toothless dopes that still have no clue to wake up on this issue. The vicious attacks by Beck on the birther movement shows an agenda, rather than an opinion or fair reporting.

    Notice that Beck, Bill O’ and Matthews all pull the same crap? They slam the issue, but they refuse to put someone on like Joe Farah, Phil Berg or Mario Apuzzo on that would crush Beck. They would expose Beck as the total liar and shill that he is if he ever had any of these real patriots on.

    Hell, Beck’s call screeners on his radio show would not even allow me or any of the Monster fans on when we called during two operation flood it’s that we had earlier in 2010. They hung up in my 77 year old uncles face. Why? Because they know they are cornered in their lies, that is why.

    Like I said earlier, Lt Col Lakin is being terrorized by the US Army as Glenn Beck counts his cash and makes goofy faces in the camera. Anyone that still watches him after knowing that he is not trying to help a patriot like Lt Col Lakin should be ASHAMED of themselves. Anyone, that comes on here defending that piece of crap will get blocked immediately. There will be NO DEBATE, because the time for debate is over. Either you are on OUR SIDE or THEIR SIDE and when you ignore the Obama eligibility issue, you are on THEIR SIDE.

    Got it? Beck bots?

    http://theconservativemonster.com/

  85. avatar
    sfjeff August 10, 2010 at 2:58 pm #

    “Like I said earlier, Lt Col Lakin is being terrorized by the US Army”

    Birthers don’t even know what terrorism is. So sad.

  86. avatar
    Slartibartfast August 10, 2010 at 3:07 pm #

    Black Lion: From the delusional “Conservative Monster”….By Steve Cooper
    The Conservative Monster.comI guess the Beck puppets can not handle the truth? Lt Col. Lakin is being terrorized and Mr. Constitution Glenn Beck IGNORES the entire incident like it is not even happening. They hate when I expose that Beck is reading the SAME SCRIPT as Chris Matthews and the other leftists on the Obama eligibility issue.
    Do not tell me about a newspaper announcement in the paper, because that is like giving me a coupon to Target as proof of birth.
    A few months back, Beck was spinning the issue real nice when he wrote that Obama was a U.S. Citizen on his blackboard, but he failed to mention that the president of the United States is supposed to be a “natural born citizen”.A natural born citizen is a child that is born to TWO U.S. Citizens, unlike Obama’s father that was a Kenyan of British Citizenship.Glenn, I dare you to write this on your blackboard:Investigate Obama’s “Natural Born Citizenship”, because his father was a KENYAN, not an American. Plus, his mother was not old enough to transfer her citizenship either.It is no secret that Fox News is censoring the entire eligibility story from being reported fairly, because they do not want the toothless dopes that still have no clue to wake up on this issue. The vicious attacks by Beck on the birther movement shows an agenda, rather than an opinion or fair reporting.
    Notice that Beck, Bill O’ and Matthews all pull the same crap? They slam the issue, but they refuse to put someone on like Joe Farah, Phil Berg or Mario Apuzzo on that would crush Beck. They would expose Beck as the total liar and shill that he is if he ever had any of these real patriots on.
    Hell, Beck’s call screeners on his radio show would not even allow me or any of the Monster fans on when we called during two operation flood it’s that we had earlier in 2010. They hung up in my 77 year old uncles face. Why? Because they know they are cornered in their lies, that is why.
    Like I said earlier, Lt Col Lakin is being terrorized by the US Army as Glenn Beck counts his cash and makes goofy faces in the camera. Anyone that still watches him after knowing that he is not trying to help a patriot like Lt Col Lakin should be ASHAMED of themselves. Anyone, that comes on here defending that piece of crap will get blocked immediately. There will be NO DEBATE, because the time for debate is over. Either you are on OUR SIDE or THEIR SIDE and when you ignore the Obama eligibility issue, you are on THEIR SIDE.
    Got it? Beck bots?
    http://theconservativemonster.com/

    I find it amazing that these people have not the slightest doubt that they may be wrong and utterly fail to realize what un-patriotic seditious trash they’re spewing in their ignorance.

  87. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 10, 2010 at 3:17 pm #

    Black Lion: From the delusional “Conservative Monster”….
    One crazy two crazies…. THREEE CRAZIESSSS

  88. avatar
    obsolete August 10, 2010 at 5:52 pm #

    Gregory:
    Please try to get your European stereotypes straight: In Heaven, the cooks are French, the police are British, the lovers are Italian and everything is organized by the Germans.In Hell, the cooks are British, the police are French, the lovers are German and everything is organized by the Italians.

    Even better! 🙂

  89. avatar
    JoZeppy August 10, 2010 at 6:02 pm #

    Gregory: Please try to get your European stereotypes straight: In Heaven, the cooks are French, the police are British, the lovers are Italian and everything is organized by the Germans.In Hell, the cooks are British, the police are French, the lovers are German and everything is organized by the Italians.

    The version I heard: In Heaven, the cooks are French, the police are British, the lovers Italian, mechanics German, and the Swiss run everything. In hell, the cooks are British, the police German, the lovers Swiss, the mechanics French, and the Italians run everything.

  90. avatar
    Majority Will August 10, 2010 at 6:14 pm #

    JoZeppy:
    The version I heard:In Heaven, the cooks are French, the police are British, the lovers Italian, mechanics German, and the Swiss run everything.In hell, the cooks are British, the police German, the lovers Swiss, the mechanics French, and the Italians run everything.

    And the Belgians are stuck in purgatory. They’re still waffling.

  91. avatar
    BatGuano August 10, 2010 at 6:44 pm #

    the greeks couldn’t even afford to get in the joke.

  92. avatar
    Majority Will August 10, 2010 at 7:12 pm #

    BatGuano: the greeks couldn’t even afford to get in the joke.

    Only because their Czechs bounced.

  93. avatar
    misha August 10, 2010 at 7:22 pm #

    Majority Will: Only because their Czechs bounced.

    What do Jewish cowboys say? Yipeeyo chai yay.

  94. avatar
    Dave August 10, 2010 at 9:56 pm #

    Here’s an item that I think hasn’t been discussed here — no less an authority than Phil Cave has suggested that, if he were the trial counsel (think prosecutor), he would seriously consider allowing the defense some discovery into birth certificates etc. I confess his argument went largely over my head, and he seems to be getting uniform disagreement from the other authorities at CAAFlog. But still, there it is.

    We rarely are able to give the birthers any good news, but for once here’s some: at least one guy who knows what he’s talking about thinks some discovery into the President’s eligibility is a possibility.

  95. avatar
    Majority Will August 10, 2010 at 10:25 pm #

    Dave: Here’s an item that I think hasn’t been discussed here — no less an authority than Phil Cave has suggested that, if he were the trial counsel (think prosecutor), he would seriously consider allowing the defense some discovery into birth certificates etc. I confess his argument went largely over my head, and he seems to be getting uniform disagreement from the other authorities at CAAFlog. But still, there it is.We rarely are able to give the birthers any good news, but for once here’s some: at least one guy who knows what he’s talking about thinks some discovery into the President’s eligibility is a possibility.

    I don’t think the defense has a chance. And Jensen’s arrogance, obstinacy and inexperience could make Lakin’s situation a lot worse. JMNSHO – IANAL.

  96. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 10, 2010 at 10:29 pm #

    Dave: Here’s an item that I think hasn’t been discussed here — no less an authority than Phil Cave has suggested that, if he were the trial counsel (think prosecutor), he would seriously consider allowing the defense some discovery into birth certificates etc.

    Well if there is a legitimate avenue for the birthers to get their comeuppance, farbeit from me to object. I’ve always said that I want a copy of that photocopy of Obama’s original birth certificate to hang on my wall in a place of honor. 😉

  97. avatar
    Majority Will August 10, 2010 at 10:59 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Well if there is a legitimate avenue for the birthers to get their comeuppance, farbeit from me to object. I’ve always said that I want a copy of that photocopy of Obama’s original birth certificate to hang on my wall in a place of honor.

    I find it very hard to believe that a birther lawyer like Jensen would ever concede that he was wrong about the President’s eligibility. Any more than Taitz or Apuzzo or Berg would.

    These are lifers.

  98. avatar
    Dave August 11, 2010 at 12:43 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Well if there is a legitimate avenue for the birthers to get their comeuppance, farbeit from me to object. I’ve always said that I want a copy of that photocopy of Obama’s original birth certificate to hang on my wall in a place of honor.

    About your wall, I have some bad news. Phil Cave does points out that if the original birth certificate were subpoenaed, it would have to be sealed, since it contains private information.

    But that raises another question that I can’t find the answer to — how much of a court martial is public record? So far, it seems the one and only source for any documents related to this case is LTC Lakin himself. I’m sure birthers would like to see whatever discovery he gets, if any; and I would really like to see the filings of LTC Lakin’s own lawyers, of which he has so far released none.

  99. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 11, 2010 at 2:29 am #

    Majority Will: I find it very hard to believe that a birther lawyer like Jensen would ever concede that he was wrong about the President’s eligibility.

    No, but Lakin might. A recantation from Lakin would be a big deal, propaganda-wise.

  100. avatar
    Majority Will August 11, 2010 at 3:07 am #

    Dave:
    About your wall, I have some bad news. Phil Cave does points out that if the original birth certificate were subpoenaed, it would have to be sealed, since it contains private information.But that raises another question that I can’t find the answer to — how much of a court martial is public record? So far, it seems the one and only source for any documents related to this case is LTC Lakin himself. I’m sure birthers would like to see whatever discovery he gets, if any; and I would really like to see the filings of LTC Lakin’s own lawyers, of which he has so far released none.

    Isn’t Lakin’s proof of his NBC his own COLB and nothing else?

  101. avatar
    ellid August 11, 2010 at 7:34 am #

    Majority Will:
    Isn’t Lakin’s proof of his NBC his own COLB and nothing else?

    Yep. He seems completely unaware of the irony.

  102. avatar
    Majority Will August 11, 2010 at 7:44 am #

    ellid:
    Yep.He seems completely unaware of the irony.

    I was wondering if the prosecution could use that tidbit if/when the defense demands discovery. Judges appreciate logic more than irony.

  103. avatar
    AnotherBird August 11, 2010 at 12:18 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Isn’t Lakin’s proof of his NBC his own COLB and nothing else?

    Actually, the irony runs deeper than that with a little hypocrisy just to put a smile on your face.

  104. avatar
    Black Lion August 11, 2010 at 4:09 pm #

    Lakin’s flack Hemmingway writes an editorial letter to John McCain….Worth a read if you get the opportunity….

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/08/11/challenge-to-john-mccain/

    “During the 2008 presidential campaign, the media hounded you about your “natural born” status- a law professor in Arizona even made the outrageous assertion, completely unjustified, that you were not “natural born” because of your birth in Panama. As a result, you released your original birth certificate.”

    and…

    “Unfortunately, you never asked your rival to produce his original birth certificate– even though a roiling controversy surrounds his birth place- with no hospital in Hawaii willing to claim to be his birthplace- and recently, a senior elections clerk offered to testify in court that his boss, Glenn Takahashi, said there was no hospital birth record for Obama. Three prominent Kenyans said Obama was born in Kenya, contrary to his official birth narrative– including his paternal step-grandmother, Sarah Obama, Ambassador Peter Ogego (on WRIF radio in November 2008) and recently, in March, Cabinet Minister James Orengo- on the floor of the Kenyan Parliament.”

  105. avatar
    Dave August 11, 2010 at 4:36 pm #

    Black Lion: Lakin’s flack Hemmingway writes an editorial letter to John McCain….“During the 2008 presidential campaign, the media hounded you about your “natural born” status- a law professor in Arizona even made the outrageous assertion, completely unjustified, that you were not “natural born” because of your birth in Panama.As a result, you released your original birth certificate.”

    Her name is actually Hemenway. Setting aside for the moment the fact that McCain never released a birth certificate, “original” or otherwise (“extra crispy”?), I am now completely at sea about what defense theory LTC Lakin is advancing. If being born outside the country doesn’t disqualify you, then why does he want more proof than he already has that the President was born in the country?

  106. avatar
    misha August 11, 2010 at 4:44 pm #

    Dave: If being born outside the country doesn’t disqualify you, then why does he want more proof than he already has that the President was born in the country?

    Lakin wants to be flown to Honolulu, at government expense, and see for himself the actual certificate filled out and signed by the attending physician.

    No, I am not making this up, and no, it’s not going to happen.

  107. avatar
    Resign_Soebarkah_Resign August 11, 2010 at 5:26 pm #

    A birth certificate is a vital record containing the facts of a birth event. The birth certificate is prima facie evidence that the birth occurred and is inconsistent with establishing Natural born status.

    For example, John McCain does not have a birth certificate from any U.S. institution. He has a Certificate of U.S. Citizenship issued by the U.S. State Department. As Congress has resolved, McCain is a Natural born citizen without a birth certificate issued by any US institution.

    We have seen through the study of Soebarkah’s life, a US citizen born in the United States may relocate to a foreign country and request the issuance of a Certificate of Loss of Nationality by the U.S. Department of State. Once the CLN is issued, Natural born citizenship status is lost. At best, Soebarkah could have emigrated back to the US as a permanent resident and then naturalize as a US Citizen.

  108. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 11, 2010 at 5:31 pm #

    Resign_Soebarkah_Resign: A birth certificate is a vital record containing the facts of a birth event. The birth certificate is prima facie evidence that the birth occurred and is inconsistent with establishing Natural born status.For example, John McCain does not have a birth certificate from any U.S. institution. He has a Certificate of U.S. Citizenship issued by the U.S. State Department. As Congress has resolved, McCain is a Natural born citizen without a birth certificate issued by any US institution.We have seen through the study of Soebarkah’s life, a US citizen born in the United States may relocate to a foreign country and request the issuance of a Certificate of Loss of Nationality by the U.S. Department of State. Once the CLN is issued, Natural born citizenship status is lost. At best, Soebarkah could have emigrated back to the US as a permanent resident and then naturalize as a US Citizen.

    Yguy, NC1 is that you? There is no evidence that Obama ever renounced his citizenship let alone as a minor

  109. avatar
    Dave August 11, 2010 at 6:20 pm #

    Resign_Soebarkah_Resign: We have seen through the study of Soebarkah’s life, a US citizen born in the United States may relocate to a foreign country and request the issuance of a Certificate of Loss of Nationality by the U.S. Department of State. Once the CLN is issued, Natural born citizenship status is lost. At best, Soebarkah could have emigrated back to the US as a permanent resident and then naturalize as a US Citizen.

    By “Soebarkah” I presume you mean the President.

    You might be interested to know that LTC Lakin has not requested any CLN. In his latest press release he says he has asked for “a deposition in Hawaii of the records-keeper of the State Department of Health—and the production of all of their records concerning Barack Obama.” So I remain puzzled why Hemenway, who is LTC Lakin’s “official spokesman” would on the one hand say McCain’s foreign birth has no bearing on his eligibility, while on the other hand saying Obama’s birth records are necessary to establish his eligibility.

  110. avatar
    obsolete August 11, 2010 at 6:39 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Yguy, NC1 is that you? There is no evidence that Obama ever renounced his citizenship let alone as a minor

    Resign_Soebarkah_Resign (or nc1 or yguy etc.) never mentions Obama in his learn-ed screed- he refers to someone named “Soebarkah”. How clever, the Birthers have a new shiny play toy.

    When birthers refuse to even accept Obama’s right to use his own name, they are denying him any shred of human dignity. This is a strategy that racists use, like calling a black man “boy” or not “stooping” to use “Mr.” when addressing them. It’s a way to demean minorities and treat them as sub-human.
    When I see a birther use any combination of Soebarkah, Soetoro, Steve Dunham, or even in many cases when calling him “Barry” in a context not related to his childhood nickname, I see them expose themselves as a racist.
    I am not one to throw that accusation out lightly, but in this case I stand by it 100%.

  111. avatar
    Sean August 11, 2010 at 6:55 pm #

    Resign_Soebarkah_Resign: A birth certificate is a vital record containing the facts of a birth event. The birth certificate is prima facie evidence that the birth occurred and is inconsistent with establishing Natural born status.For example, John McCain does not have a birth certificate from any U.S. institution. He has a Certificate of U.S. Citizenship issued by the U.S. State Department. As Congress has resolved, McCain is a Natural born citizen without a birth certificate issued by any US institution.We have seen through the study of Soebarkah’s life, a US citizen born in the United States may relocate to a foreign country and request the issuance of a Certificate of Loss of Nationality by the U.S. Department of State. Once the CLN is issued, Natural born citizenship status is lost. At best, Soebarkah could have emigrated back to the US as a permanent resident and then naturalize as a US Citizen.

    You’re living in the world of “could have” and “what if.” In the real world, the facts are consistent with Obama’s Hawaiian birth and complete retention of his US citizenship.

    Join us in the real world.

  112. avatar
    sfjeff August 11, 2010 at 7:06 pm #

    “Resign_Soebarkah_Resign”

    Sounds more like Sven to me.:

  113. avatar
    misha August 11, 2010 at 7:11 pm #

    sfjeff: “Resign_Soebarkah_Resign”Sounds more like Sven to me.:

    It is Sven.

  114. avatar
    Resign_Soebarkah_Resign August 12, 2010 at 9:46 am #

    Dave:
    By “Soebarkah” I presume you mean the President.You might be interested to know that LTC Lakin has not requested any CLN. In his latest press release he says he has asked for “a deposition in Hawaii of the records-keeper of the State Department of Health—and the production of all of their records concerning Barack Obama.” So I remain puzzled why Hemenway, who is LTC Lakin’s “official spokesman” would on the one hand say McCain’s foreign birth has no bearing on his eligibility, while on the other hand saying Obama’s birth records are necessary to establish his eligibility.

    The CLN was issued to Barry Soetoro after the Soetoro adoption was finalized. BHO II has denied he is or was Barry Soetoro.

    So, first things first, the Soetoro adoption papers in Hawaii was be unsealed. Or, BHO’s II Form SS-5 from SSA and his Certificate of Naturalization from USCIS must be unsealed.

    Apparently, Lakin wants to go to Hawaii. And you’re a racist for not using Obama’s title in your message.

  115. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 12, 2010 at 10:01 am #

    Resign_Soebarkah_Resign: The CLN was issued to Barry Soetoro after the Soetoro adoption was finalized. BHO II has denied he is or was Barry Soetoro.So, first things first, the Soetoro adoption papers in Hawaii was be unsealed. Or, BHO’s II Form SS-5 from SSA and his Certificate of Naturalization from USCIS must be unsealed.Apparently, Lakin wants to go to Hawaii. And you’re a racist for not using Obama’s title in your message.

    There is no Barry Soetoro. You have shown no evidence there was ever an adoption.

  116. avatar
    Sef August 12, 2010 at 11:04 am #

    Resign_Soebarkah_Resign: The CLN was issued to Barry Soetoro after the Soetoro adoption was finalized.

    So what you are saying is that the nonexistent CLN was issued to the nonexistent Barry Soetoro after the nonexistent adoption. So three negatives make a positive?

  117. avatar
    Majority Will August 12, 2010 at 11:16 am #

    Sef:
    So what you are saying is that the nonexistent CLN was issued to the nonexistent Barry Soetoro after the nonexistent adoption.So three negatives make a positive?

    No, three negatives make an avant garde art exhibit. Sven’s just out of his mind.

  118. avatar
    Sef August 12, 2010 at 11:31 am #

    Majority Will:
    No, three negatives make an avant garde art exhibit. Sven’s just out of his mind.

    Whenever I read about these birthers I am reminded of Wonko the Sane (http://www.terindell.com/asylum/docs/asylum.html). Thankfully, we have a “digital divide” to separate “us” from “them”.

  119. avatar
    AnotherBird August 12, 2010 at 11:33 am #

    Resign_Soebarkah_Resign: the Soetoro adoption papers in Hawaii was be unsealed

    Who is this Barry Soetoro. How do you know that they were adopted when their records are sealed? Be careful they might get a restraining order against.

  120. avatar
    Dave August 12, 2010 at 11:36 am #

    Resign_Soebarkah_Resign:
    The [imaginary] CLN was issued to [imaginary name] Barry Soetoro after the [imaginary] Soetoro adoption was finalized.

    I suppose it’s hopeless to get you to notice that while you may think this is relevant to LTC Lakin’s case, LTC Lakin has never asked for the production of any documents related to to any CLN. If you want this to be in LTC Lakin’s case, you need to talk to him. There’s nothing we can do about it.

    And you’re a racist for not using Obama’s title in your message.

    We really need to get a better grade of troll around here. This is just… pathetic.

  121. avatar
    Sef August 12, 2010 at 11:42 am #

    Dave:
    I suppose it’s hopeless to get you to notice that while you may think this is relevant to LTC Lakin’s case, LTC Lakin has never asked for the production of any documents related to to any CLN. If you want this to be in LTC Lakin’s case, you need to talk to him. There’s nothing we can do about it.
    We really need to get a better grade of troll around here. This is just… pathetic.

    So when is someone going to come out with a “Fun with Birthers” game? It would be a lot like “whack-a-mole”.

  122. avatar
    Majority Will August 12, 2010 at 11:55 am #

    Sef:
    So when is someone going to come out with a “Fun with Birthers” game?It would be a lot like “whack-a-mole”.

    Whack-a-mule.
    Moles aren’t as stubborn.

  123. avatar
    Majority Will August 12, 2010 at 12:03 pm #

    Sef:
    Whenever I read about these birthers I am reminded of Wonko the Sane (http://www.terindell.com/asylum/docs/asylum.html).Thankfully, we have a “digital divide” to separate “us” from “them”.

    Thanks for the trip up memory lane and to Douglas for all of the fish. He is missed.

  124. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 12, 2010 at 12:07 pm #

    Sef: So when is someone going to come out with a “Fun with Birthers” game? It would be a lot like “whack-a-mole”.

    You know I always wanted to screw with these truly committed people’s heads. Most of them believe anything no matter how ridiculous it sounds. Take in point the april fools joke about Obama going to school on a foreign student scholarship. How many of those people still try to pass it off as if it was real? So now a game could be spread some ridiculously false information and see how quickly it spreads around birferstan.

  125. avatar
    Sean August 12, 2010 at 1:08 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    You know I always wanted to screw with these truly committed people’s heads.Most of them believe anything no matter how ridiculous it sounds.Take in point the april fools joke about Obama going to school on a foreign student scholarship.How many of those people still try to pass it off as if it was real?So now a game could be spread some ridiculously false information and see how quickly it spreads around birferstan.

    I do this on YouTube all the time. The anti-Obama people will not refute any dirt, fake or real that they hear about Obama.

    I made up a story about there being no evidence Michelle LaVaughn Robinson even exists. That she just suddenly appeared and married the very gay Barack, but rumor has it her real name is Norma Vanderhoff and she worked in quality control at Lodge Manufacturing in Tennessee.

    Was this questioned? Nope. Swallowed hook line and sinker.

  126. avatar
    obsolete August 12, 2010 at 5:47 pm #

    I used to post on Orly’s site about seeing blue-helmeted U.N. soldiers on an army reserve base outside Chicago and she and her minions believed me 100%. I have posted other misinformation that I am still tracking to see if and how they run with it as the gospel truth. Birthers are all proven rubes.

  127. avatar
    Majority Will August 12, 2010 at 6:57 pm #

    obsolete: I used to post on Orly’s site about seeing blue-helmeted U.N. soldiers on an army reserve base outside Chicago and she and her minions believed me 100%. I have posted other misinformation that I am still tracking to see if and how they run with it as the gospel truth.Birthers are all proven rubes.

    I know I’ve said this before but it would be amusing to park a junkyard schoolbus with FEMA scrawled in spray paint on the side in front of Orly’s home and dental office. And a few more in the neighborhoods of Joseph Farah and his co-conspirators as well as the mental cases running the Pest and eFail. The birther blogosphere would implode.

  128. avatar
    Sean August 12, 2010 at 7:23 pm #

    Majority Will:
    I know I’ve said this before but it would be amusing to park a junkyard schoolbus with FEMA scrawled in spray paint on the side in front of Orly’s home and dental office. And a few more in the neighborhoods of Joseph Farah and his co-conspirators as well as the mental cases running the Pest and eFail. The birther blogosphere would implode.

    When the healthcare bill passed, I thought it would be great to have someone go to Sarah Palin’s house and say, “We’re here to take your son. Trig has been deemed not productive to society.”

  129. avatar
    Majority Will August 12, 2010 at 7:30 pm #

    Sean:
    When the healthcare bill passed, I thought it would be great to have someone go to Sarah Palin’s house and say, “We’re here to take your son. Trig has been deemed not productive to society.”

    Or she’ll have to return to her home country of Canada.

  130. avatar
    ron August 13, 2010 at 2:00 am #

    Once again they miss the point, the Presidents citizenship is not on trial. Lakin’s missing a movement and disobeying orders is. He (Lakin) has to prove he dId not do either.
    Lakins reasoning why he did those two acts of disobediance is just proof that he committed the aforementioned offenses. Case closed. As I have stated before it is not Lakins job to vet his superiors, no more than a rookie state policemen can ask for his superiors credentials. I even wonder about the legality of a uniform soldier bringing a lawsuit against his superior or even questioning his superior publically. Lakin brought this to the Chain of Command , they gave him an answer, if he did not agree he should have resigned. If he had concrete evidence for his refusal to take commands(at the time of his refusal) I might be sympathetic, but the fact that he is asking for documents now proves that at the time he made his decison he had no truthful basis for his dissension, just hearsay , hearsay that may not be admissible in court.. So technically the requests for those documents hurts his case.

  131. avatar
    Keith August 13, 2010 at 9:07 am #

    Majority Will:
    I know I’ve said this before but it would be amusing to park a junkyard schoolbus with FEMA scrawled in spray paint on the side in front of Orly’s home and dental office. And a few more in the neighborhoods of Joseph Farah and his co-conspirators as well as the mental cases running the Pest and eFail. The birther blogosphere would implode.

    Ya gonna paint the windows black?

  132. avatar
    Dave August 13, 2010 at 9:57 am #

    obsolete: Birthers are all proven rubes.

    Now you just have to figure out how to monetize this.

    Oh, wait, Farah already did.

  133. avatar
    Majority Will August 13, 2010 at 10:09 am #

    Keith:
    Ya gonna paint the windows black?

    With the Rolling Stones’ approval.

  134. avatar
    Bovril August 13, 2010 at 11:26 am #

    Dave: Now you just have to figure out how to monetize this.

    You mean has anyone looked into creating a bundled (in)security based on Birfer PayPal contributions……8-)

    AIG woulda been all over that……

  135. avatar
    Reality Check August 13, 2010 at 1:21 pm #

    Lakin was on the G.Gordon Liddy show today. Paul Jensen and Joe Farah joined by phone. Jensen said a Lt. Col. Brodsky, one of the prosecutors, threatened to have Lakin tasered. We also learned from Liddy that this could be “the most important trial in history” and from Farah that if Obama doesn’t produce satisfactory proof when Lakin gets discovery that everything including health care signed by Obama since January 2009 will be void. Jensen said he could not think of one reason why the government would deny access to the records in Hawaii. Of course, there were many pleas for tax deductible contributions to Lakin’s defense fund.

    The highlight of the show was when Lakin took an extended potty break and Liddy sent one his his helpers to go check on him.

  136. avatar
    Dave August 13, 2010 at 4:00 pm #

    Reality Check: Jensen said he could not think of one reason why the government would deny access to the records in Hawaii.

    This is one of those things that birthers should be very worried about, but of course never are. In the IO memo that they posted on their website for all to read the IO gives reasons why the government would deny access to these records. If Jensen presented arguments, however silly, that the IO was wrong, that would be one thing. That would be doing his job, however badly. But to claim there is no reason, especially after we know has been given a reason, means that Jensen is just plain not doing his job at all.

  137. avatar
    Sef August 13, 2010 at 4:16 pm #

    Dave:
    This is one of those things that birthers should be very worried about, but of course never are. In the IO memo that they posted on their website for all to read the IO gives reasons why the government would deny access to these records. If Jensen presented arguments, however silly, that the IO was wrong, that would be one thing. That would be doing his job, however badly. But to claim there is no reason, especially after we know has been given a reason, means that Jensen is just plain not doing his job at all.

    To these birther lawyers everything is axiomatic & does not need explanation. That’s only because they have no explanation & their logic is nonexistent.

  138. avatar
    Reality Check August 13, 2010 at 5:07 pm #

    The show was a mess. The three of them – Lakin, Jensen, and Farah are morons and have the same compunction to lie as Orly. Liddy sounds incoherent. I don’t think he buys any of this crap but if it hurts Obama and keeps listeners he will go along with anything. He asked Lakin once if “good order” was an issue (in other words for the good order of the military you cannot have assholes like Lakin picking the orders they wish to obey). Lakin sloughed it off and Liddy never followed up and just kept mumbling.

  139. avatar
    misha August 13, 2010 at 7:07 pm #

    Reality Check: Lakin was on the G.Gordon Liddy show today. We also learned from Liddy that this could be “the most important trial in history”

    Liddy is a convicted felon, like Manning.

  140. avatar
    Rickey August 13, 2010 at 9:41 pm #

    Reality Check: Lakin was on the G.Gordon Liddy show today.

    CAAFlog has a thread on the show.

    http://www.caaflog.com/2010/08/13/ltc-lakin-and-paul-jensen-on-g-gordon-liddys-radio-show/

    One of the regulars there, Christopher Matthews, makes the interesting point that if all military orders made during Obama’s presidency are invalid, then the court-martial itself is invalid.

  141. avatar
    Reality Check August 13, 2010 at 9:47 pm #

    They only official military act that Lakin considers valid is the printing of his paycheck every other week.

  142. avatar
    obsolete August 13, 2010 at 10:15 pm #

    I saw Liddy debate with Timothy Leary sometime in the late 80’s. Although he was a right-wing tool and felon back then, I don’t think he was intellectually dishonest as he is today. I can’t see him actually believing the birther crap. He was too close to an actual presidency to swallow this turd today. He knows how things tend to work.

  143. avatar
    AnotherBird August 13, 2010 at 10:22 pm #

    Rickey: One of the regulars there, Christopher Matthews, makes the interesting point that if all military orders made during Obama’s presidency are invalid, then the court-martial itself is invalid.

    I would say strange rather than interesting. Maybe, bizarre. I honestly don’t believe these people are thinking correctly. Is he suggesting that America’s entire military return home and take a vacation? Mr. Matthews demonstrate how birthers can’t think beyond the few words that pop into their heads.

  144. avatar
    Dave August 13, 2010 at 10:35 pm #

    AnotherBird:
    I would say strange rather than interesting. Maybe, bizarre. I honestly don’t believe these people are thinking correctly. Is he suggesting that America’s entire military return home and take a vacation? Mr. Matthews demonstrate how birthers can’t think beyond the few words that pop into their heads.

    I got a very different impression of Mr. Matthews. Maybe it wouldn’t hurt to go over there and read the original.

  145. avatar
    AnotherBird August 14, 2010 at 1:06 am #

    Dave:
    I got a very different impression of Mr. Matthews. Maybe it wouldn’t hurt to go over there and read the original.

    So the problem was my misinterpretation of Mr. Matthews statement. It should have read “I suppose that means the court-martial itself would be a nullity, too.” Which is different that the interpretation of the comment that I read. So, then I just took Mr. Matthews comment to the next level, as his original comment was meant to express the absurdity of argument made by Lakin’s supporters.

  146. avatar
    ron August 14, 2010 at 1:52 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: After a careful reading, I don’t think it will help either. While we all recognize the civilian control of the military in the US, and that the President is the Commander in Chief, operationally orders don’t come from the President.What I don’t understand is why Lakin’s attorney has said that they are going to file a motion to have the case dismissed. That is asking for no trial, no discovery, and no resolution (in their minds) whether Lankin’s questions about Obama were legitimate in the first place.The whole Lakin affair continues to baffle me.

    a dismissal request may work in the civilian courts, this is a court martial there are different rules of conduct here. This is another major problen with this case, many do not understand there are distinct differences in how thiNgs are done in the military, many of which Jensen , his civilian lawyer has no idea of obviously. Have there been any comments made from his military counsel?

  147. avatar
    ron August 14, 2010 at 3:48 pm #

    this definition is from dictionary.com

    admissible evidence n. evidence which the trial judge finds is useful in helping the trier of fact (a jury if there is a jury, otherwise the judge), and which cannot be objected to on the basis that it is irrelevant, immaterial, or violates the rules against hearsay and other objections. Sometimes the evidence which a person tries to introduce has little relevant value (usually called probative value) in determining some fact, or prejudice from the jury’s shock at gory details may outweigh that probative value. In criminal cases the courts tend to be more restrictive on letting the jury hear such details for fear they will result in “undue prejudice.” Thus, the jury may only hear a sanitized version of the facts in prosecutions involving violence.

    The question is did You Lt Col Terry Lakin by design miss a movement?

    How does the presidents Birth country make that not true?

    Of course the defense will ask him to explain why.

    If his answer is because I did not believe the president is a natural born citizen and does not meet the requirement to hold his office,

    If the followup question is, you based that on what information?

    What facts can he provide other than hearsay?

    Could the military judge then reply, I am a Colonel in the U.S. Army. I became one through the Officer Candidate School. To Qualify for that priviledge I had to be a U.S. Citizen and score a minimum of 110 GT on the Military entrance exam. Are you saying that if you have doubts about my competence to sit as head of this court that you, a junior to me in rank and authority have the right to request to see my test scores which were a requirement for me to have attended OCS,and are you stating that if I cannot provide the scores in their original format , a copy of a test I took 25 years ago. that I can expect you to not follow any instructions made by this court?

  148. avatar
    Arthur August 14, 2010 at 4:47 pm #

    From what I’ve read on CAAFlog, the only two pertinent questions concerning LtC Lakin’s court martial are: 1) was the order the defendant received lawful? and 2) did the defendant disobey that order?

  149. avatar
    AnotherBird August 14, 2010 at 8:29 pm #

    ron:

    If his answer is because I did not believe the president is a natural born citizen and does not meet the requirement to hold his office,

    If the followup question is, you based that on what information?

    I really don’t know how he would answer the followup question. He might feign ignorance. However, I can only see those circumstances if he or his wet-lawyer are persistent on including the president’s qualifications in their arguments.

  150. avatar
    AnotherBird August 14, 2010 at 8:41 pm #

    Arthur: From what I’ve read on CAAFlog, the only two pertinent questions concerning LtC Lakin’s court martial are: 1) was the order the defendant received lawful? and 2) did the defendant disobey that order?

    But, LTC Lakin nor his wet-lawyer understands that. Lakin seems to be more interested in their 15 minutes of fame with “the wrong crowd.”

  151. avatar
    Majority Will August 14, 2010 at 9:22 pm #

    AnotherBird:
    But, LTC Lakin nor his wet-lawyer understands that. Lakin seems to be more interested in their 15 minutes of fame with “the wrong crowd.”

    I don’t Lakin understands that he is screwed for no good reason.

  152. avatar
    Sef August 14, 2010 at 9:22 pm #

    AnotherBird:
    I really don’t know how he would answer the followup question. He might feign ignorance. However, I can only see those circumstances if he or his wet-lawyer are persistent on including the president’s qualifications in their arguments.

    What is the situation in a CM? Is it customary for the defendant to take the stand?

  153. avatar
    Majority Will August 14, 2010 at 9:23 pm #

    Sorry. Verb missing.

    I don’t thnk Lakin understands that he is screwed for no good reason.

  154. avatar
    Majority Will August 14, 2010 at 9:25 pm #

    Sef:
    What is the situation in a CM?Is it customary for the defendant to take the stand?

    JAG lawyers discussing Lakin:

    http://www.caaflog.com/2010/08/08/lakin-discussion/#comments

  155. avatar
    AnotherBird August 14, 2010 at 10:37 pm #

    Sef:
    What is the situation in a CM? Is it customary for the defendant to take the stand?

    I don’t really know to both questions. However, Lakin can make any false statement he can make since his requests for anything related to the president has been rejected.

    Dwight Sullivan make a good explanation that should shed some light on the issue.

    “The central point is that the relevance of a motive isn’t sufficient to demonstrate the relevance of the truth of the motive.”

    and

    “I don’t see any chance that a members panel will be swayed by hearing his motives — unless the panel is swayed to increase his sentence upon hearing why he deliberately decided to violate the UCMJ.”

    So, if they do allow him to play the birther-card it will only be to his determent. I might be wrong, but either way there is no advantage to Lakin.

  156. avatar
    Rickey August 14, 2010 at 11:38 pm #

    AnotherBird:
    So the problem was my misinterpretation of Mr. Matthews statement. It should have read “I suppose that means the court-martial itself would be a nullity, too.” Which is different that the interpretation of the comment that I read. So, then I just took Mr. Matthews comment to the next level, as his original comment was meant to express the absurdity of argument made by Lakin’s supporters.

    My bad on that. I paraphrased him instead of quoting him.

  157. avatar
    AnotherBird August 14, 2010 at 11:57 pm #

    Rickey:
    My bad on that. I paraphrased him instead of quoting him.

    None to worry about. I generally check the references of anything posted to understand a comment in the context it was written, but not this time.

    An interesting thing that I did notice in the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) under Article 92.

    “(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or”

    Lakin really stepped in it. This doesn’t surprise, because even the most educated person can believe something that is utterly false.

  158. avatar
    nc1 August 15, 2010 at 4:34 am #

    Arthur: From what I’ve read on CAAFlog, the only two pertinent questions concerning LtC Lakin’s court martial are: 1) was the order the defendant received lawful? and 2) did the defendant disobey that order?

    Does Dr. Lakin’s immediate commander have the authority to send troops to a war on his own? The answer is clearly – No.
    Go up the chain of command and the only person who has such authority is the Commander-in-Chief.

    Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

  159. avatar
    Lupin August 15, 2010 at 4:51 am #

    nc1: Does Dr. Lakin’s immediate commander have the authority to send troops to a war on his own? The answer is clearly – No.

    You are clearly drunk. Go and sober up before you post tripe that has already been refuted and explained to you a dozen time already,

  160. avatar
    Arthur August 15, 2010 at 5:57 am #

    nc1:
    Does Dr. Lakin’s immediate commander have the authority to send troops to a war on his own?The answer is clearly – No.
    Go up the chain of command and the only person who has such authority is the Commander-in-Chief.Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

    nc1:

    May I call you ncr? My “1” key doesn’t work., : ( That? No, that’s not a typo, it’s something called an “emoticon,” and it means I’m sad. Look, : ) — now it means I’m happy. The kids use ’em all the time, so I decided, “What the hey!” Anyhoo, do you come here often? Let me check . . . OMG! ncr, you are freaking famous!!! You post A LOT, although not a lot of it makes sense; still and all, thanks for responding to my little ol’ post.

    Even though your name reminds me of cash registers, you seem to know a WHOLE LOT about military junk–did you, by any chance, serve with Black Jack Pershing or with the Rough Riders? How I would like to sit by your two replaced knees and learn oodles more about chains-of-command, and authorities, and ordering, and such. But since I’m here, and you’re over in Happy Acres Retirement Village rewriting the Constitution with your cribbage buddies, I guess I’ll have to settle with mucking through the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

    I known, I know, the fine print makes your eyes hurt, but I bet you can get a copy of the UCMJ on Audio Books. Until then, Sun Tzu, keep on rocking in the free world.

  161. avatar
    Dave August 15, 2010 at 6:35 am #

    nc1:
    Does Dr. Lakin’s immediate commander have the authority to send troops to a war on his own?The answer is clearly – No.
    Go up the chain of command and the only person who has such authority is the Commander-in-Chief.Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

    Haven’t we been over this before? I mean this exact same comment? The answer is, you have to follow the orders of your commanding officer. The exception for illegal orders has nothing to do with questioning whether your commanding officer was authorized to give you the order. If your commanding officer was not authorized, then your commanding officer gets in trouble, not you.

    The exception for illegal orders covers things like “go kill a baby.” That is, where the order is to do something illegal, not that the source of the order is illegal.

    You might also be interested in knowing that LTC Lakin’s commanding officer ordered him to go to Kentucky. Is Kentucky a war zone? No wait, I told you that last time you brought this up, so I guess you’re not interested.

  162. avatar
    AnotherBird August 15, 2010 at 7:49 am #

    nc1:
    Does Dr. Lakin’s immediate commander have the authority to send troops to a war on his own?The answer is clearly – No.

    Go up the chain of command and the only person who has such authority is the Commander-in-Chief.Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

    nc1 you fall to understand why TLC Lakin understand the situation is in.

    According to the Uniform Code of Military Justice Article 92 “Failure to Obey Order or Regulation”

    “(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or”

    It isn’t a complicated article to understand. If someone gives a lawful order, then those who receive the order must follow it. The order Lakin received wasn’t from the president but his supervisor. So he “shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

    Lakin is a medical doctor and doesn’t engaged in combat. Even though M.A.S.H. was a drama it is a closer representation to amount of war Lakin will see than your false character.

    So, please go back to what you were previously doing.

  163. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 15, 2010 at 8:52 am #

    nc1: Does Dr. Lakin’s immediate commander have the authority to send troops to a war on his own? The answer is clearly – No.
    Go up the chain of command and the only person who has such authority is the Commander-in-Chief.

    According to the Constitution, only Congress has the authority to declare war. Congress has authorized military action in Afghanistan, so I don’t see your point, unless you are arguing that the entire Congress is not legitimate.

  164. avatar
    AnotherBird August 15, 2010 at 9:22 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    According to the Constitution, only Congress has the authority to declare war. Congress has authorized military action in Afghanistan, so I don’t see your point, unless you are arguing that the entire Congress is not legitimate.

    Dr. part of the denial is that it was the 107 Congress who declared the war in Afghanistan under then President Bush, but nr1 refuses to read the law that gives congress the authority to military action.

  165. avatar
    Majority Will August 15, 2010 at 10:41 am #

    Dave:
    Haven’t we been over this before? I mean this exact same comment? The answer is, you have to follow the orders of your commanding officer. The exception for illegal orders has nothing to do with questioning whether your commanding officer was authorized to give you the order. If your commanding officer was not authorized, then your commanding officer gets in trouble, not you.The exception for illegal orders covers things like “go kill a baby.” That is, where the order is to do something illegal, not that the source of the order is illegal.You might also be interested in knowing that LTC Lakin’s commanding officer ordered him to go to Kentucky. Is Kentucky a war zone? No wait, I told you that last time you brought this up, so I guess you’re not interested.

    She’s not listening because she has no interest in the truth. Stupid troll.

  166. avatar
    BatGuano August 15, 2010 at 11:02 am #

    yea! nc1 is back.

    have you gotten a chance to revue the passport article yet ?

  167. avatar
    Majority Will August 15, 2010 at 11:07 am #

    BatGuano: yea! nc1 is back.
    have you gotten a chance to revue the passport article yet ?

    She’s busy pulling up goalposts.

  168. avatar
    Reality Check August 15, 2010 at 11:38 am #

    Majority Will: She’s busy pulling up goalposts.

    The have installed rails on those suckers so they may be moved quickly. They only move in one direction however.

  169. avatar
    Sef August 15, 2010 at 11:57 am #

    Reality Check:
    The have installed rails on those suckers so they may be moved quickly. They only move in one direction however.

    What they neglect to do is move the goalpost while the kick is in the air. The kick is always good, but they think “we’ll get you next time”.

  170. avatar
    nc1 August 15, 2010 at 2:32 pm #

    Arthur: nc1:May I call you ncr? My “1‘ key doesn’t work., : ( That? No, that’s not a typo, it’s something called an “emoticon,” and it means I’m sad. Look, : ) — now it means I’m happy. The kids use em all the time, so I decided, “What the hey!” Anyhoo, do you come here often? Let me check . . . OMG! ncr, you are freaking famous!!! You post A LOT, although not a lot of it makes sense; still and all, thanks for responding to my little ol’ post. Even though your name reminds me of cash registers, you seem to know a WHOLE LOT about military junk–did you, by any chance, serve with Black Jack Pershing or with the Rough Riders? How I would like to sit by your two replaced knees and learn oodles more about chains-of-command, and authorities, and ordering, and such. But since I’m here, and you’re over in Happy Acres Retirement Village rewriting the Constitution with your cribbage buddies, I guess I’ll have to settle with mucking through the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I known, I know, the fine print makes your eyes hurt, but I bet you can get a copy of the UCMJ on Audio Books. Until then, Sun Tzu, keep on rocking in the free world.

    Don’t beat arount a bush: Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

  171. avatar
    Reality Check August 15, 2010 at 2:39 pm #

    nc1: Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

    The answer to your hypothetical question is yes. Lakin will soon find out the answer the hard way. Hypothetical because there is not now, never has been, nor will be an “illegitimate commander-in-chief”. Whoever the current office holder happens to be is legitimate. You may not be happy with that and feel personally that he is “illegitimate”. But the term has no Constitutional meaning.

  172. avatar
    nc1 August 15, 2010 at 2:46 pm #

    Dave: Haven’t we been over this before? I mean this exact same comment? The answer is, you have to follow the orders of your commanding officer. The exception for illegal orders has nothing to do with questioning whether your commanding officer was authorized to give you the order. If your commanding officer was not authorized, then your commanding officer gets in trouble, not you.The exception for illegal orders covers things like “go kill a baby.” That is, where the order is to do something illegal, not that the source of the order is illegal.You might also be interested in knowing that LTC Lakin’s commanding officer ordered him to go to Kentucky. Is Kentucky a war zone? No wait, I told you that last time you brought this up, so I guess you’re not interested.

    According to your logic – Dr. Lakin would have to follow orders not only to Kentucky but to the next leg of deployment (let’s say it is a base in Germany) and only refuse the last leg of the trip – the actual flight to Afghanistan. If he did that, you and your ilk would have accused him of accepting the order to deploy (by participating in all preparations up to the last flight to war zone) and deserting his unit at the very last moment.

  173. avatar
    Majority Will August 15, 2010 at 2:56 pm #

    nc1:
    According to your logic – Dr. Lakin would have to follow orders not only to Kentucky but to the next leg of deployment (let’s say it is a base in Germany) and only refuse the last leg of the trip – the actual flight to Afghanistan.If he did that, you and your ilk would have accused him of accepting the order to deploy (by participating in all preparations up to the last flight to war zone) and deserting his unit at the very last moment.

    You and your ilk? WTF are you besides a bigot and a nasty troll?

  174. avatar
    nc1 August 15, 2010 at 2:57 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: According to the Constitution, only Congress has the authority to declare war. Congress has authorized military action in Afghanistan, so I don’t see your point, unless you are arguing that the entire Congress is not legitimate.

    Which person has the authority to sign the actual order to deploy troops to a war?

    Why did Gen. McChrystal ask for additional 40,000 troops in Afghanistan – didn’t he have the authority to order the deployment of troops he needed? If he could not do it – neither can any officer who is below him in the chain of command.

    Why didn’t he send the request to Congress?

  175. avatar
    Northland10 August 15, 2010 at 3:37 pm #

    nc1: Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

    We have told you this on multiple occasions. The military does not have the constitutional authority to determine the the legitimacy or eligibility of the President. That authority lies entirely with the Congress and the Electoral College. Therefore, if the voters and the electoral college select Obama and the Congress certifies the election, than, to the military, he is the legitimate commander and chief. They have no authority to question otherwise. To do so would turn our country into a military dictatorship.

    Why would you allow the military to decide on their own who is a legitimate leader? Your trolling against the freedom this nation is increasingly unbelievable. The fact that you do not listen to any response shows, you just do not care for America or her citizens.

    NC1, why are you such a traitor against the Constitution?

  176. avatar
    Rickey August 15, 2010 at 4:03 pm #

    nc1:
    Which person has the authority to sign the actual order to deploy troops to a war?Why did Gen. McChrystal ask for additional 40,000 troops in Afghanistan – didn’t he have the authority to order the deployment of troops he needed?If he could not do it – neither can any officer who is below him in the chain of command.Why didn’t he send the request to Congress?

    First of all, the order doesn’t have to be signed. Verbal orders have the same force as written orders.

    Second, Congress has the authority to declare war, but the Commander-in-Chief has the authority to conduct war. However, the authority to conduct war is not unlimited, because Congress controls the purse strings. Congress essentially forced an end to the Vietnam War by cutting off further funding for the war in 1973.

    Authority to conduct a war rests with the Commander-in-Chief, but the CIC is free to delegate that authority, or some of that authority, to others.

    Finally, you are a troll. Obama is the President of the United States, all orders given to Lakin by his superiors were legal orders, and Lakin will be convicted at his court-martial.

  177. avatar
    Dave August 15, 2010 at 4:57 pm #

    nc1:
    According to your logic – Dr. Lakin would have to follow orders not only to Kentucky but to the next leg of deployment (let’s say it is a base in Germany) and only refuse the last leg of the trip – the actual flight to Afghanistan.If he did that, you and your ilk would have accused him of accepting the order to deploy (by participating in all preparations up to the last flight to war zone) and deserting his unit at the very last moment.

    I can’t for the life of me see how your “according to your logic” has anything to do with what I said.

    Are you of the opinion that all the officers currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are breaking the law by following their orders? What punishment do you think they should receive?

  178. avatar
    Expelliarmus August 15, 2010 at 5:03 pm #

    nc1: Don’t beat arount a bush: Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

    Interesting turn of phrase… I think Al Gore was elected President in 2000.

    But to get to your point: the person who is inaugurated on January 20th every 4 years is the President of the US. The only way a Pres. could be “illegitimate” is if the person got to the White House by some other means.

    It doesn’t matter whether the vote in Palm Beach was counted wrong, or if the candidate lied and cheated every step of the way to get into office. We have a system, and once the person is installed as President via that system, he is by definition legitimate the Constitution provides only 3 ways to get rid of a President, no matter what facts are later discovered:

    1. By impeachment;
    2. By removal due to incapacity, which requires concurrence of both the Cabinet and Congress;
    3. By voting the President out office after 4 years, or by waiting for the expiration of the President’s 2nd term.

    The President’s birth certificate is irrelevant to proving that he is legitimate — the only piece of evidence that might be relevant in an action to prove legitimacy is the Congressional Record of the counting of the electoral vote.

  179. avatar
    Dave August 15, 2010 at 5:04 pm #

    nc1:
    Don’t beat arount a bush:Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

    The answer is yes. The answer is also irrelevant to LTC Lakin’s case.

    Here by illegitimate I’m assuming you mean the kind of theories that birthers usually circulate about the current President. There are other hypothetical situations where I think the answer would be no — for example, if you could prove that the person who issued the order wasn’t the same person who was elected and sworn in. Kinda like the move “Dave.” (No relation.) But it would still be irrelevant to LTC Lakin’s case.

  180. avatar
    Scientist August 15, 2010 at 5:05 pm #

    I have a simple solution to the lLakin problem. They should immediately issue him an order forbidding him from going to Afghanistan. Then he’d have to go.

    Apparently he is willing to collect a paycheck signed by an illigitimate Treasury Secretary. I guess his principles only go so far.

  181. avatar
    AnotherBird August 15, 2010 at 5:35 pm #

    nc1:
    Don’t beat arount a bush:Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

    What are you talking about? What illegitimate Commander-in-Chief? You continue to ask illogical questions, while ignoring the facts. Here is one for you: Can rays of sun be seen on a rainy night?

  182. avatar
    AnotherBird August 15, 2010 at 5:45 pm #

    nc1:
    Which person has the authority to sign the actual order to deploy troops to a war?

    Why did Gen. McChrystal ask for additional 40,000 troops in Afghanistan – didn’t he have the authority to order the deployment of troops he needed?

    If he could not do it – neither can any officer who is below him in the chain of command.

    Why didn’t he send the request to Congress?

    You continue to ask meaningless questions. Why do you continue on shifting your questions? Is it that you don’t like the answer? Are you ignoring the fact that congress has to approve changes relating to the war in Afghanistan? You are one stubborn person.

  183. avatar
    Arthur August 15, 2010 at 5:49 pm #

    nc1:
    Don’t beat arount a bush:Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

    I’d never bleat around your bush, NC Hammer. I’ll let the court martial talk for me.

  184. avatar
    AnotherBird August 15, 2010 at 5:50 pm #

    Scientist: I have a simple solution to the Lakin problem.They should immediately issue him an order forbidding him from going to Afghanistan.Then he’d have to go. Apparently he is willing to collect a paycheck signed by an illigitimate Treasury Secretary. I guess his principles only go so far.

    Lakin can’t think past his nose. If they forbade from going to Afghanistan his head would explode.

  185. avatar
    Scientist August 15, 2010 at 5:52 pm #

    AnotherBird: If they forbade from going to Afghanistan his head would explode.

    And that would solve the problem….And relieve us taxpayers from having to pay him, court marshall him and have his butt sitting in the brig.

  186. avatar
    AnotherBird August 15, 2010 at 6:03 pm #

    Scientist:
    And that would solve the problem….And relieve us taxpayers from having to pay him, court marshall him and have his butt sitting in the brig.

    Agreed.

  187. avatar
    Arthur August 15, 2010 at 6:35 pm #

    I think you mean “stockade.” “Brig” is a Navy/Coast Guard term and Lakin’s an Army man.

  188. avatar
    ron August 15, 2010 at 7:23 pm #

    nc1: Does Dr. Lakin’s immediate commander have the authority to send troops to a war on his own? The answer is clearly – No.Go up the chain of command and the only person who has such authority is the Commander-in-Chief.Can an illegitimate Commander-In-Chief issue a legitimate order to deploy troops to a war?

    There are so many rediculous assumptions about how sending troops into war works, I will try to explain based on my experience I am a retired U.S. Marine Corps Master Sgt with 23 years of service(due to knee injury was deprived of the priviledge to do 30). I retired in 2003. During my career I deployed throughout the world 64 times on land and sea.I have copies of all my orders and none are endorsed by the president(including orders to accompany Bush Sr as part of a security force to Tokyo)

    The president orders the services as funtioning enitites into combat not individuals.

    ;Article II, section 2, of the Constitution provides that the President “shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.” By virtue of this constitutional office he has supreme command over the land and naval forces of the country and may order them to perform such military duties as, in his opinion, are necessary or appropriate for the defense of the United States. These powers exist in time of peace as well as in time of war.

    The generals divise a strategy in conjunction with the presidents goals and then upon his approval deploy resources at their discretion in good judgement to accomplish those goals.

    The Generals decide which units to deploy and what key personnel are required(the president has no capacity to do this, (especially since few have had any military experience)
    There has been instances in my units where there were reasons for certain marines to not deploy, for this to happen an approval to not deploy had to be approved by the Commanding General not the commander in Chief. In your point of view, only the president could have rescinded his or her orders, Since by your reasoning only he issued them. That was not the case.

    There have also been cases where my unit had to take another units orders, that units orders were not pulled by the commander in Chief but by the Commanding General and reissued to us by the same.

    Orders to individuals come from their immediate chain of command which is not the commander in chief.

    So yes those commanders decide on a by unit and individual basis who goes , Once they are handed their marching orders whether received from the Chief of Staff or the COC..

  189. avatar
    ron August 15, 2010 at 7:37 pm #

    Arthur: I’d never bleat around your bush, NC Hammer. I’ll let the court martial talk for me.

    What competent or legal authority has declarded the president illigitimate ? I take that answer to be none, Until that happens(Which I doubt ever will) everything the president does is ligitimate.

    As individuals we have no auhority to declare any public official as illegitimate especially witthout due process.

    I would think the good Dr would know that as well as any rational human being over the age of 12.

    So please pump your brakes and back away from the birther sites.

  190. avatar
    AnotherBird August 16, 2010 at 12:51 am #

    ron:
    What competent or legal authority has declarded the president illigitimate ? I take that answer to be none, Until that happens(Which I doubt ever will) everything the president does is ligitimate.As individuals we have no auhority to declare any public official as illegitimate especially witthout due process.I would think the good Dr would know that as well as any rational human being over the age of 12.So please pump your brakes and back away from the birther sites.

    No one has declared the president as illegitimate. However, NC1 will have to accept another defeat when Lakin court martial strips him of his rank and imposes other punishments on him.

    Lakin’s latest antics is being told to prepare for early departure for his next hearing, after being late for his previous one. The strange thing is that APF wants Lakin’s supports to complain to the advocate judge’s supervisor (commanding general). It account is too strange to recount without any misunderstanding.

    http://www.caaflog.com/2010/08/12/ltc-lakin-alleges-tc-threatened-him-supporters-ask-supporters-to-call-his-commanding-general/

    The original account is from American Patriot Foundation, and there isn’t verifications of what happened.

    Lakin does understand the correct chain of command. He seemed to refuse his deployment more of a bone head political move, that has effectively ended his military career. Arthur understands this, and insists on mocking nc1 (NC Hammer).

  191. avatar
    nc1 August 16, 2010 at 4:01 am #

    Dave: I can’t for the life of me see how your “according to your logic” has anything to do with what I said.Are you of the opinion that all the officers currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are breaking the law by following their orders? What punishment do you think they should receive?

    1. You mentioned that Kentucky was not a war zone. Neither is Germany (an example of a possible second leg in deployment to Afghanistan). Only the last leg of deployment would be an actual order to deploy to a war zone – according to your logic.

    Had Dr. Lakin refused to board the plane on the last leg of the trip to Afghanistan, you would have argued that he had already acceptted the order to deploy and decided to desert his unit at the very last moment. You would be right in that case.

    2. If officers were following orders because of a deception by the CiC – you could not punish them.

  192. avatar
    nc1 August 16, 2010 at 4:55 am #

    Northland10: We have told you this on multiple occasions. The military does not have the constitutional authority to determine the the legitimacy or eligibility of the President. That authority lies entirely with the Congress and the Electoral College. Therefore, if the voters and the electoral college select Obama and the Congress certifies the election, than, to the military, he is the legitimate commander and chief. They have no authority to question otherwise. To do so would turn our country into a military dictatorship. Why would you allow the military to decide on their own who is a legitimate leader? Your trolling against the freedom this nation is increasingly unbelievable. The fact that you do not listen to any response shows, you just do not care for America or her citizens.NC1, why are you such a traitor against the Constitution?

    You have an interesting definition of a traitor – a person trying to verify that Constitution has been followed and eligible person was sworn in as POTUS.

    I am arguing for strengthening of the immune system of this country while Obama supporters are trying to weaken it.
    Which position makes more sense when it comes to national security: verify that Obama is a natural born citizen or trust his word that he is eligible for the office.

    When Congress violates the Constitution, Judiciary can overrule them and declare a law unconstitutional.

    If it turns out that Obama was born abroad – he would not be a natural born citizen; therefore he would not have been eligible for the office in the first place. We would not be talking about removing a legitimate President but an usurper to the office.

    I understand your concern about military being involved, but the situation was created because of the stupidity of judges in civilian courts. They have ignored the common sense in dealing with the issue – nobody had standing to challenge candidate’s placement on the balot, nobody had standing to challenge president-elect (no injury to an individual has occured) and after the sworn in ceremnoy only Congress can deal with the issue!?

    What was the proper venue for a US citizen (an active officer in the US military) to challenge Obama’s eligibility for the office?

  193. avatar
    nc1 August 16, 2010 at 5:19 am #

    ron: What competent or legal authority has declarded the president illigitimate ? I take that answer to be none, Until that happens(Which I doubt ever will) everything the president does is ligitimate. As individuals we have no auhority to declare any public official as illegitimate especially witthout due process.I would think the good Dr would know that as well as any rational human being over the age of 12.So please pump your brakes and back away from the birther sites.

    You are talking about due process – should Dr. Lakin be convicted without a chance to inspect government documents that could help his defense?

  194. avatar
    Expelliarmus August 16, 2010 at 5:51 am #

    nc1: should Dr. Lakin be convicted without a chance to inspect government documents that could help his defense?

    That’s the point — he’s only entitled to inspect documents that could help his defense. Obama’s birth status is not a defense. Even if it were proven tomorrow that Obama was never born at all, but in fact was delivered by a Marabou Stork …. Obama would still be President. His birth status has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that he now holds the office.

    So as I said above, the ONLY paperwork that could possibly be relevant would the Congressional record of the counting of the electoral votes. Which happens to be public record, so Lakin and his lawyers are free to inspect that any time he wants.

  195. avatar
    Northland10 August 16, 2010 at 6:34 am #

    nc1: When Congress violates the Constitution, Judiciary can overrule them and declare a law unconstitutional.

    You are correct, they can declare a “law” unconstitutional but the certification is not a law (which would also be signed by the president).

    nc1: If it turns out that Obama was born abroad – he would not be a natural born citizen;

    Then prove it with evidence. He satisfied his party, the states, a majority of voters, the Electoral College and Congress. You believe otherwise, then the burden is on you (and Lakin) and not him. You want to go fishing in the waters, provide some evidence that their would be any fish to catch.

    nc1: nobody had standing to challenge candidate’s placement on the balot,

    Yes, various candidates did have standing before and during the elections, but chose to do nothing. No objections was submitted to the Congress. Therefore, issue over.

    nc1: What was the proper venue for a US citizen (an active officer in the US military) to challenge Obama’s eligibility for the office?

    Your representative in Congress. That is how a this republic works. That is your representation in government.

  196. avatar
    Lupin August 16, 2010 at 7:05 am #

    nc1: should Dr. Lakin be convicted without a chance to inspect government documents that could help his defense?

    Yes. Absolutely. I hope he rots.

    (And this is a preposterous argument; what if he needed to inspect the super-top-secret plans for the next gamma bomb, should we show them to him?)

  197. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 16, 2010 at 7:51 am #

    nc1: You are talking about due process – should Dr. Lakin be convicted without a chance to inspect government documents that could help his defense?

    I feel confident that LTC Lakin will have the chance to inspect any documents that could help his defense; however, the documents he is asking for won’t help him.

  198. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 16, 2010 at 7:56 am #

    nc1: I am arguing for strengthening of the immune system of this country while Obama supporters are trying to weaken it.

    Do you feel that your vital fluids are at risk?

    nc1: What was the proper venue for a US citizen (an active officer in the US military) to challenge Obama’s eligibility for the office?

    Petition Congress.

  199. avatar
    Reality Check August 16, 2010 at 8:21 am #

    Even though I may have, in disgust, called LTC Lakin a traitor I do not think he is a traitor by legal definition of giving aid and comfort to the enemy. He is probably a criminal. He is charged on 5 counts of violating to portions of the UCMJ. The evidence against him is overwhelming and he has even admitted to willfully breaking the laws in videos. Calling him a traitor is a stretch. Calling him an alleged criminal is not.

  200. avatar
    AnotherBird August 16, 2010 at 8:26 am #

    Let us address each element.

    nc1:
    You have an interesting definition of a traitor – a person trying to verify that Constitution has been followed and eligible person was sworn in as POTUS.

    Lakin is a doctor. It isn’t in the capacity of Lakin’s position to verify who is eligible or not. It is your responsibility to show us where in American law or the Constitution that Lakin has been entrusted or has the right to “verify that Constitution has been followed.” It has been almost two years after the election has ended, and if he had that right under law he would have already done so. Also, if he did have the authority he wouldn’t have to disobey lawful orders.
    Fail

    I am arguing for strengthening of the immune system of this country while Obama supporters are trying to weaken it.

    This is a “Fallacious Argument.” I will return later with which type after doing some research. However, birther antics have been more about claiming someone is guilty and then demanding they prove that they are. Bithers have proved nothing that contradicts Obama’s natural born citizen status by Hawaiian birth. They have gone to great lenghts in attempts to get access to Obama’s personal records without demonstrating the “importance of getting access” to those records. Out of 70 odd cases, none have found any legal bases for Obama to provide anything to Birthers. The American judicial system is working perfectly fine.
    Fail

    Which position makes more sense when it comes to national security: verify that Obama is a natural born citizen or trust his word that he is eligible for the office.

    The men and women entrusted in ensuring America’s national security are doing an excellent job. Remember, Obama is only one person living in America it wouldn’t be hard for those responsibly for national security to investigate Obama if needed.
    Fail

    When Congress violates the Constitution, Judiciary can overrule them and declare a law unconstitutional.

    That is correct.

    If it turns out that Obama was born abroad – he would not be a natural born citizen; therefore he would not have been eligible for the office in the first place.

    Absolutely nothing has been produced that even suggest that Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii. Additionally, there is nothing in American law that excludes an American citizen born abroad from being considered an natural born citizen. This is the reason that McCain was eligible to run for president. Yes, and the SCOTUS has ruled on citizens born in American to foreign parents.
    Fail

    We would not be talking about removing a legitimate President but an usurper to the office.

    We are waiting for you to find your usurper. Using the term “usurper” doesn’t improve your argument, it is just a logical fallacy.
    Fail

    I understand your concern about military being involved, but the situation was created because of the stupidity of judges in civilian courts. They have ignored the common sense in dealing with the issue – nobody had standing to challenge candidate’s placement on the balot, nobody had standing to challenge president-elect (no injury to an individual has occured) and after the sworn in ceremnoy only Congress can deal with the issue!?

    An excellent way of improving your argument is to mock the judicial system (sarcasm). 0-70 means that you are just wrong.

    Orly Taitz it is over. Ooops … nc1 it is over.

    Calling the judges stupid or the process stupid in no way improves your position. It isn’t “common sense” but “legal principles.” Courts address only where or not a person has been harmed, and applies remedies to that harm. However, you must be able to demonstrate that you (might) have been harmed. The acts that constitute harm are written in law.
    Fail

    What was the proper venue for a US citizen (an active officer in the US military) to challenge Obama’s eligibility for the office?

    Another Fallacious Argument. There are times that I believe birthers are just anti-American.
    1. At the ballot box.
    2. By providing proof that the president isn’t an American citizen.
    3. Where can everyone challenge your birth or American citizenship?
    Fail

    nc1:
    You are talking about due process – should Dr. Lakin be convicted without a chance to inspect government documents that could help his defense?

    Yes, and the due process in court martial’s work exactly the same as they due in the normal judicial system. This is the same for evidence collection. Remember the 0-70 number. Well it will be 0-71+, with the + being Lakin’s conviction of violating a lawful order.

    Lakin has already violated a lawful order. I wonder when he will realize that he destroyed his career over hearsay.

  201. avatar
    Dave August 16, 2010 at 9:23 am #

    2.If officers were following orders because of a deception by the CiC – you could notpunish them.

    So now you’re saying that LTC Lakin was not legally bound to refuse his orders? This is getting confusing.

    In any case I want to point out LTC Lakin clearly disagrees with you on this point:

    Mr. Obama’s continuing refusal to release his original 1961 birth certificate has brought Lt. Col. Lakin to the point where he feels his orders are unlawful, and thus MUST be disobeyed.

    Emphasis his. “MUST be disobeyed.” So it is apparently LTC Lakin’s opinion (though not yours) that all officers currently serving are violating the law, and presumably should therefore be prosecuted.

  202. avatar
    JoZeppy August 16, 2010 at 11:03 am #

    nc1: You are talking about due process – should Dr. Lakin be convicted without a chance to inspect government documents that could help his defense?

    The key phase to that is “that could help his defense.” There are no documents that Obama or Hawaii can produce that can help his defense. The military has no place to determining the eligibility of the President. That’s like someone charged with armed robbery trying to discover evidence to prove his neighbor is a murderer. No matter how true the claim is, it does not constitute a defense to your actions, thus are irrelevant.

  203. avatar
    Scientist August 16, 2010 at 11:12 am #

    Let me give an analogy so simple that even nc1 might understand it. Let’s suppose that a city requires police officers to reside within the city. Let’s further suppose that I am arrested in that city and resist the officer. I am charged with resisting arrest. Finally, let’s further suppose that before my trial it is uncovered that the officer who arrested me does not live in the city and is dismissed from the police force. Can I base my defense on the officer having been ineligible?

    The answer is no, because at the time of the arrest, the officer was a member of the police force, despite his ineligibility. Similarly, the occupant of the White House is the President and discharges the full weight of the office, regardless of any subsequent determination as to his eligibility. This should be clear to a 3 year year old.

  204. avatar
    JoZeppy August 16, 2010 at 11:20 am #

    nc1: I am arguing for strengthening of the immune system of this country while Obama supporters are trying to weaken it.

    By putting the military in a position to decide who qualifies for president? Sounds more like a banana republic. Application of your “cure” would kill the patient.

    nc1: Which position makes more sense when it comes to national security: verify that Obama is a natural born citizen or trust his word that he is eligible for the office.

    Obama has been verified to the same extent every prior president has. There has not been a shred of real evidence to show that he was born anywhere but Hawaii, so until someone can give a reason why we should question his Hawaiian birth, chasing down birther rabbit holes makes no sense at all.

    nc1: When Congress violates the Constitution, Judiciary can overrule them and declare a law unconstitutional.

    Feel free to raise this point when we discuss an unconstitutional law passed by Congress…but it’s totally irrelevant here.

    nc1: If it turns out that Obama was born abroad – he would not be a natural born citizen; therefore he would not have been eligible for the office in the first place. We would not be talking about removing a legitimate President but an usurper to the office.

    And if it turns out he’s really 18 years old, and has only lived in the US for 2 years, he wouldn’t be eligible either. As there is no evidence for any of that, and all evidence points to him being fully eligible, there really is no need to discuss hypotheticals.

    nc1: I understand your concern about military being involved, but the situation was created because of the stupidity of judges in civilian courts. They have ignored the common sense in dealing with the issue – nobody had standing to challenge candidate’s placement on the balot, nobody had standing to challenge president-elect (no injury to an individual has occured) and after the sworn in ceremnoy only Congress can deal with the issue!?

    Yes…those stupid judges that insist on following the Constitution and precident. Funny how birthers appeal to “common sense” when both the law and facts are against them. And yes, only Congress can deal with the issue once the President is sworn in. If you feel that is “ignor[ing] common sense in dealing with the issue” I recommend you follow the Constitution, and look to have it amended.

    nc1: What was the proper venue for a US citizen (an active officer in the US military) to challenge Obama’s eligibility for the office?

    You said it yourself….Congress. Write to your Congressman and Senators. Not only is that the “common sense [way] in dealing with the issue” it is the Constitutional way of dealing with the issue.

  205. avatar
    BatGuano August 16, 2010 at 11:26 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Do you feel that your vital fluids are at risk?

    i live for that film. my first post on this site was about kubrick so i picked a name that i thought was appropriately witty on both fronts…….. Colonel ‘Bat’ Guano. at the last minute i ditched the “colonel” so not to be perceived as trying to influence opinion on a false military status.

    the joke kind of got lost after that.

    about a year or two ago i designed a poster for a screening of “strangelove”. because of this i came in contact with a neighbor/friend of sterling hayden ( “gen. jack t. ripper” ). fascinating character. he was truly an american patriot…….. and a card carrying communist ( among other complexities ).

  206. avatar
    AnotherBird August 16, 2010 at 11:30 am #

    Dave:

    In any case I want to point out LTC Lakin clearly disagrees with you on this point:


    Mr. Obama’s continuing refusal to release his original 1961 birth certificate has brought Lt. Col. Lakin to the point where he feels his orders are unlawful, and thus MUST be disobeyed.

    Emphasis his. “MUST be disobeyed.” So it is apparently LTC Lakin’s opinion (though not yours) that all officers currently serving are violating the law, and presumably should therefore be prosecuted.

    But, Dave Birthers don’t have a consistent narrative. They constantly goal post shifting, and even contradict their previous arguments. Lakin is just being used as a face for the birther movement, and that is the only purpose he seems to serve nc1.

  207. avatar
    Sef August 16, 2010 at 12:09 pm #

    Scientist: Let me give an analogy so simple that even nc1 might understand it.Let’s suppose that a city requires police officers to reside within the city.Let’s further suppose that I am arrested in that city and resist the officer.I am charged with resisting arrest.Finally, let’s further suppose that before my trial it is uncovered that the officer who arrested me does not live in the city and is dismissed from the police force.Can I base my defense on the officer having been ineligible?The answer is no, because at the time of the arrest, the officer was a member of the police force, despite his ineligibility.Similarly, the occupant of the White House is the President and discharges the full weight of the office, regardless of any subsequent determination as to his eligibility.This should be clear to a 3 year year old.

    This is probably a question for a real lawyer. I see these TV shows like CSI where one of the police force has done something unethical & then the defense attorneys for anyone who was ever convicted with whom he had contact dredges up the case & tries to have the convictions overturned. Why wouldn’t the de facto officer doctrine apply in these cases? Or are these just TV shows with no basis in reality?

  208. avatar
    Scientist August 16, 2010 at 12:19 pm #

    It depends. If a cop were convicted of perjury and your client was convicted based on his testimony, maybe. But as long as he is on the force, resist arrest at your peril.

    The same is true of military officers and the President. It doesn’t matter if you have conclusive proof that he was born in China and molests children, as long as he is in office all orders are valid. The sequence is: impeach, remove, then you don’t have to obey, not the reverse.

  209. avatar
    sfjeff August 16, 2010 at 12:36 pm #

    “I am arguing for strengthening of the immune system of this country while Obama supporters are trying to weaken it.”

    Interesting analogy. Using your own analogy, with the armed forces being the white blood cells, it is vital that the immune system follow the body’s command correctly. When individual cells start doing things on their own, thats when the immune system gets compromised.

    You have been challenged several times, and always skip around it, but why do you favor allowing the military to decide whether our government is legitimate or not?

    Under your system- any soldier could challenge the legitimacy of the government- of any law, any order. This opens the door not only for soldiers refusing orders and destroying the militaries effectiveness, but also for the military to over throw governments on the pretext that they feel the government wasn’t ‘legitimate’ which leads to overthrowing the governments because they just are ‘wrong’.

    The military in our system- thankfully- doesn’t get to challenge civilian government. If this offends you, there are many countries around the world that have seen a succession of military coupes and governments- I personally recommend Pakistan.

    “Which position makes more sense when it comes to national security: verify that Obama is a natural born citizen or trust his word that he is eligible for the office”

    I personally think that we should hold Obama to the same NBC test that we have applied to all Presidents. Oh wait- we already have. You seem to have missed the point that he was already elected and sworn into office, all based upon the same burden of proof that established Bush was an NBC, that Clinton was an NBC, etc.

    If you think that is insufficient- then push for laws requiring a higher degree of proof for future Presidents. I have nothing against that as long as the law is well defined, applied uniformly, and not some political hack job intended to make some retroactive point.

  210. avatar
    ron August 16, 2010 at 8:26 pm #

    Sef: What is the situation in a CM? Is it customary for the defendant to take the stand?

    no just as in civilian courts they usually do not, I have sat on only 1 court martial during my military career as jury and attended 2 as a witness and the defendants did not say a word in any of the cases except at sentencing

  211. avatar
    ron August 16, 2010 at 9:04 pm #

    nc1: You are talking about due process – should Dr. Lakin be convicted without a chance to inspect government documents that could help his defense?

    yes he he should , The documents have nothing to do with his offense. especially if he made the decison to disobey orders without the documents . Come on now , would you make a gamble like this on hearsay.

    He is totaly wrong and misleading that you need the original Birth Certificate to join the military, (in fact he has shown the same document the president has. )Call any recruiting station and they will say you can join with a passport or COB or birth certification from your local Vital Statistics office.

    Why does he not have the documents?. He knows what he gambled, every legal military expert from what I have read, (don’t know that as fact though ) has warned of the perilous nature of his position,

    The documents I repeat have no bearing on his disobediance to obey orders,the president is not I repeat not on trial.The Lt Col should have resigned his commision and carried on his fight as a civilian. there is no legal precedence that I have found that supports his position,

    The real crazy thing about this is even if the president was proven illigitimate (Which I doubt will ever happen) Lt Col Lakin would still be guilty.

    All the documents shown by the opposition have proven to be fake, thats why the sanctions and really the reason for the original Birth certificate because all the others docs were ruled unofficial (its a fishing expedition fueled by unsubstaniated accusations and rumors. and I feel (my opinion) the court felt the lawyers should have known that since they are officers of the court and know about submitting false evidence. Orly is lucky she was not disbarred.
    Why can’t people understand this.

    Also if you want to talk about rights, do you realize the president could wake up tomorrow morning and just dismiss LtCol Lakin (look it up all officers serve at the pleasure of the CIC,) no trlal, no discovery, just Thank you for your serveice and goodbye.
    Then the LtCol could spend years fighting the government for his retiremwnt benefits pay if he still thanks he deserves it.

  212. avatar
    Expelliarmus August 16, 2010 at 9:07 pm #

    ron:
    no just as in civilian courts they usually do not, I have sat on only1 court martial during my military careerasjury and attended 2 as a witness and thedefendants did not saya word inany of the casesexcept at sentencing

    Well Lakin is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

    If he testifies, it will be tantamount to a confession of guilt — the prosecutor would force him to admit that (a) he received the orders and (b) his failure to report was intentional.

    If he doesn’t testify, he’s thrown his little stand for birferism and quest for martyrdom down the toilet — it doesn’t make much sense to wage a battle based on principal if you aren’t willing to stand up for that principal in a public forum.

  213. avatar
    AnotherBird August 16, 2010 at 9:37 pm #

    ron: …they are officers of the court and know about submitting false evidence. Orly is lucky she was not disbarred. …

    I don’t know how lucky Orly Taitz is, but she does like “keeping her feet close to the fire.” There are various disciplinary actions that can be taken against her, but looking at a few cases of disbarred lawyers Orly Taitz can become disbarred if she tries hard enough.

  214. avatar
    Rickey August 16, 2010 at 10:07 pm #

    Sef:
    This is probably a question for a real lawyer.I see these TV shows like CSI where one of the police force has done something unethical & then the defense attorneys for anyone who was ever convicted with whom he had contact dredges up the case & tries to have the convictions overturned.Why wouldn’t the de facto officer doctrine apply in these cases?Or are these just TV shows with no basis in reality?

    The defense attorneys can bring up anything which calls into question the credibility of the police officer, but that would be relevant only to the fact of the defendant’s guilt or innocence. It would have nothing to do with whether the arrest was a legitimate arrest. In other words, the defense attorneys could not successfully argue that the arrest was null and void because the police officer didn’t meet the department’s residency requirements. They could argue that the police officer is a liar and can’t be trusted to tell the truth.

  215. avatar
    Daniel August 16, 2010 at 10:49 pm #

    From Orly’s house of Hilarity website:

    “What do you think about an idea of Lt. Col Dr. Lakin for President in 2012?

    Posted on | August 16, 2010 | 5 Comments

    Lt. Col dr. Lakin is the only American with the integrity of character to risk his freedom and face years in military prison to demand answers from this fraud in the White House. As a Dr. and as a Lt. Col, he has intelligence, knowledge of National security and he showed an unbelievable strength of character.

    Remember, Nelson Mandela and Benazir Bhutto spent years in prison before becoming the leaders of their nations. There is always a light at the end of the tunnel. I believe we need to unite behind real heroes like Lakin, in spite of the enormous corruption we see during Obama regime.”

  216. avatar
    Reality Check August 16, 2010 at 11:09 pm #

    Phil Cave brings up an interesting point in this post. http://court-martial-ucmj.com/lakin-2/ltc-lakin-5/
    He says that the military has some provisions for orders to be questioned up the chain of command. Lakin admits that he did that. The answer was not to his liking. However, as Phil states “The military culture, IMHO, allows for situations where a person may question an order for many reason[s]. But, once the order is affirmed and if appropriate an explanation is given, the order must be executed. So Lakin has already questioned the validity of his orders and been given an answer. He doesn’t accept the answer but it is not his to question at this point. That is why it has come to a court martial proceeding. Lakin has been given every opportunity to act like a soldier.

  217. avatar
    Dave August 16, 2010 at 11:32 pm #

    Daniel: From Orly’s house of Hilarity website:“What do you think about an idea of Lt. Col Dr. Lakin for President in 2012?

    No birther can possibly support LTC Lakin for President. Let’s go to his website to see his so-called birth
    certificate
    . There are several serious problems with this document:
    1. Look at the top: the evil word “Certification”. Lower down, it does say “certificate.” Maybe that makes up for it?
    2. Attending doctor’s name, but no doctor’s signature.
    3. Date received, but no date accepted. Apparently, it was never accepted.
    4. It’s just an image on a website. A website image is not valid in a court of law.

    If this guy wants to be President, he’ll have to show us his real birth certificate.

  218. avatar
    AnotherBird August 16, 2010 at 11:59 pm #

    Daniel too bad for Lakin that he will still be in prison in 2012. I would love to demand that he show his original birth certificate, just to show him the hypocrisy of his arguments.

  219. avatar
    Rickey August 17, 2010 at 1:25 pm #

    Dave:
    If this guy wants to be President, he’ll have to show us his real birth certificate.

    Yes, it’s very suspicious.

    1. The Birth Number is blank. It shows a registrar’s number, but no birth number. What is he hiding?

    2. The names of the parents have been redacted. How do we know that his father isn’t
    really Sven Magnussen? Sven hasn’t denied being Lakin’s father.

    3. It appears to have a seal, but is it raised? I demand the opportunity to see it and feel it for myself (not to mention the rest of We The People).

    4. He was born on March 10, but the record of his birth wasn’t received until March 23. And the doctor didn’t sign it until March 21. Why the delay? He could have been born overseas, then flew to Colorado a week later as a refugee, giving his adoptive parents plenty of time to bribe Dr. Bechtel to swear that he was born in Greeley.

    Time to fill out some FOIA requests.

  220. avatar
    misha August 17, 2010 at 2:14 pm #

    Dave: 1. Look at the top: the evil word “Certification”.

    Plus, it says “certification of vital record.” If this is a birth certificate, it is ambiguous. Plus the delay mentioned, plus 2. The names of the parents have been redacted., 3. Date received, but no date accepted. Apparently, it was never accepted.

    How do we know Lakin was not born in Mexico? Colorado is Spanish for ‘red.’ There is a huge Hispanic population in Colorado. This doesn’t look good – you get my drift?

  221. avatar
    Sef August 17, 2010 at 2:18 pm #

    Dave: If this guy wants to be President, he’ll have to show us his real birth certificate.

    I’m just trying to picture a debate during Presidential Primary Season between Lakin & Sister Sarah. There would probably be enough material for SNL for an entire season, not to mention Letterman, et al. If Orville Redenbacher were still around he would really be raking it in!

  222. avatar
    Dave August 17, 2010 at 3:49 pm #

    Sef:
    I’m just trying to picture a debate during Presidential Primary Season between Lakin & Sister Sarah.There would probably be enough material for SNL for an entire season, not to mention Letterman, et al.If Orville Redenbacher were still around he would really be raking it in!

    Especially if Jensen insisted on answering all the debate questions for Lakin.

  223. avatar
    Majority Will August 17, 2010 at 4:37 pm #

    Dave:
    Especially if Jensen insisted on answering all the debate questions for Lakin.

    Let’s see if Jensen can speak for Lakin while drinking a glass of water.

  224. avatar
    Black Lion August 17, 2010 at 4:59 pm #

    Our buddy Lakin has a friend….

    “(Aug. 14, 2010) — There are three things I would like you to consider, General, in this letter: my reference to your chain of command and duty towards the United States Constitution, my Amicus Curiae for Lt Col. Lakin, and my request for you for LTC Brodsky.

    If a Superior Officer issues a command relying on the authority of an individual claiming to be President of the United States, but not in fact Constitutionally eligible for the office, obedience to that questionably lawful order is inconsistent with the sworn duty to uphold the Constitution.

    The Constitutional eligibility of Barack Obama for the Office of President is challenged by myself, who has standing or equal say as a fellow candidate, and I tell you he is NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN, and tell you He is NOT CONSTITUTIONALLY QUALIFIED FOR THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT. Officers of the military are not obliged to defer to that authoritative and constitutionally-authorized judgment of the Supreme Court, or Congress; you don’t have that liberty. Their dereliction leaves the doubt constitutionally unresolved, so that every military officer, and indeed every citizen of the United States, is a hostage by any action performed by Barack Obama wieldng the executive power of the U.S. MILITARY by usurpation. Indeed, Obama is not constitutionally qualified to be President, and the Constitution plainly states that the executive power passes to the Vice-President.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/08/14/dear-commanding-general-mg-carla-hawley-bowland/

  225. avatar
    Majority Will August 17, 2010 at 5:14 pm #

    Black Lion: Our buddy Lakin has a friend….“(Aug. 14, 2010) — There are three things I would like you to consider, General, in this letter:my reference to your chain of command and duty towards the United States Constitution, my Amicus Curiae for Lt Col. Lakin, and my request for you for LTC Brodsky.If a Superior Officer issues a command relying on the authority of an individual claiming to be President of the United States, but not in fact Constitutionally eligible for the office, obedience to that questionably lawful order is inconsistent with the sworn duty to uphold the Constitution.The Constitutional eligibility of Barack Obama for the Office of President is challenged by myself, who has standing or equal say as a fellow candidate, and I tell you he is NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN, and tell you He is NOT CONSTITUTIONALLY QUALIFIED FOR THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT. Officers of the military are not obliged to defer to that authoritative and constitutionally-authorized judgment of the Supreme Court, or Congress; you don’t have that liberty.Their dereliction leaves the doubt constitutionally unresolved, so that every military officer, and indeed every citizen of the United States, is a hostage by any action performed by Barack Obama wieldng the executive power of the U.S. MILITARY by usurpation. Indeed, Obama is not constitutionally qualified to be President, and the Constitution plainly states that the executive power passes to the Vice-President.”http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/08/14/dear-commanding-general-mg-carla-hawley-bowland/

    Clueless dolt. Isn’t Judy the certifiable psychopath who threatened to blow up fellow Mormons with a bomb and went to prison for a few years for essentially being a terrorist?

    Yeah, Lakin has some fine friends.

  226. avatar
    Black Lion August 17, 2010 at 5:24 pm #

    More Lakin supporters…

    http://patriotsforamerica.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2734278%3ABlogPost%3A185763&xg_source=activity&page=1#comments

    Comment by Robert R.Sewell Sr on August 13, 2010 at 9:49am WILLIAM ODOM, I AM SPEAKING TO HELP YOU !.
    LOOK UP AT OUR “CONSTITUTION & AMENDMENT LAWS” MENTIONED IF ANY PRESIDENT OF USA INDICTED AS HIGH CRIMINAL, HE MUST BE HANGED TO DEATH !.

    Comment by Ronald Whaley on August 13, 2010 at 12:47am To decide if this man, Ltc Lakin, is guilty is the job of the Military courts but for these two people to treat him this way is more of a crime than what Ltc Lakin is thought to have commited. These two officers MUST be removed from the case and have charges brought up against them. Will this be done? I doubt it but I know they are sure as hell wrong in their treatment of an Officer and Gentleman like Ltc Lakin. Oh the charges against him as well should be dropped.

    Comment by Robert R.Sewell Sr on August 12, 2010 at 11:24pm “WE THE PEOPLE ” AGREED THAT LT.COL.TERRY LAKIN HAVE DONE NO WRONG !. HE IS VERY PERFECT RIGHT MAN REFUSE TO SALUTE OBAMA !. WHO DO THINK OBAMA IMMIGRANT FROM KENYA THINK HE IS ?.OBAMA IS NOT ANY IMPORTANT PERSON BUT ONLY DUMB !.

    WHO ARE THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS IN WHITE HOUSE AND PENTAGON AND DIRTIEST JOBS AND POWERFUL MORE THAN ANY DICTATORS ON EARTH IN HISTORY : THOSE HIGHEST CRIMINAL NAMES ARE RIGHT HERE —
    NO. 1- OBAMA , NO.2 BILDERBERGS (HENRY KISSINGER) NO.3 SECRETARY ROBERT GATES NO4 ADMIRAL MULLEN NO. 5 GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS !..

    THESE 5 CRIMINAL PERSONS MUST BE INVESTIGATE BY “ARMY PROSECUTOR” FOR THEIR CRIMES THAT ” WE THE PEOPLE” KNEW OF….. SUSPEND TO ALL FIVE CRIMINALS TOP GOVERNMENT PERSONAL OFFICERS AND ONE FRAUD PRESIDENT OF USA FROM ANY SALARIES, SUSPEND ALL OF THEIR RETIREMENTS , ETC ETC. THESE FIVE CRIMINAL PEOPLE SHOULD BE IN PLACE UNDER GUARD IN U.S. MILITARY PRISON TILL COURT INDICTED THEIR CRIMES AND ILLEGAL. . Comment by

    Louis McCarten on August 12, 2010 at 10:35pm Obama is as we all know is an illegal immigrant from a third world country (Kenya). What he has introdiced is third world repression, as evinced from the US government’s treatment of Ltc. Lakin. I think we can all assess that Obama ordered Ltc. Lakin to be tortured in order to gag and prevent him from challenging Obama’s illegal “presidency.”
    Someone MIGHT point out that the Obama “administration” is now stooping to torturing American citizens who challenge Soetoro’s usurped presidency. Tasering is more of a torture than waterboarding is, that’s for sure.

    Note that Lakin has committed no actual crime, merely an infraction of military policy. And look at all the crimes committed by that deadly Marxist/Islamic assclown Obama/Soetoro–including the stealing of the office of the US presidency.

    And by the way, whjo has been receiving worse

  227. avatar
    Arthur August 17, 2010 at 5:29 pm #

    A new poll asked birthers, “What were you ranting about before Obama?”

    The results:

    McDonald’s dosing senior coffee with fluoride: 5%
    Time it takes to eat a Denny’s “Grand Slam” breakfast platter: 7%
    Car Alarms: 10%
    Bob Dylan going electric: 13%
    TV remote controls getting too complicated: 22%
    Grandchildren: 15%
    The neighbor’s dog: 10%
    Saggy pants: 10%

  228. avatar
    Arthur August 17, 2010 at 5:35 pm #

    Black LionIF ANY PRESIDENT OF USA INDICTED AS HIGH CRIMINAL, HE MUST BE HANGED TO DEATH !.

    Couldn’t we just hang him until he’s really, really sorry?

    Wow, Black Lion, you sure know where to find the craziest comments. These folks really are bonkers.

  229. avatar
    sfjeff August 17, 2010 at 6:25 pm #

    “and the Constitution plainly states that the executive power passes to the Vice-President.””

    Well at least this birther realizes that the Constitution wouldn’t call for a special election

  230. avatar
    sfjeff August 17, 2010 at 6:29 pm #

    “deadly Marxist/Islamic assclown ”

    Assclown?

    Now that is a circus I want to avoid.

  231. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 17, 2010 at 6:55 pm #

    Black Lion: Comment by Robert R.Sewell Sr on August 12, 2010 at 11:24pm “WE THE PEOPLE ” AGREED THAT LT.COL.TERRY LAKIN HAVE DONE NO WRONG !. HE IS VERY PERFECT RIGHT MAN REFUSE TO SALUTE OBAMA !. WHO DO THINK OBAMA IMMIGRANT FROM KENYA THINK HE IS ?.OBAMA IS NOT ANY IMPORTANT PERSON BUT ONLY DUMB !.

    I don’t think this fellow has any business picking on immigrants.

  232. avatar
    G August 17, 2010 at 8:54 pm #

    Arthur: A new pollasked birthers, “What were you ranting about before Obama?”The results:
    McDonald’s dosing senior coffee with fluoride: 5%
    Time it takes to eat a Denny’s “Grand Slam” breakfast platter:7%
    Car Alarms:10%
    Bob Dylan going electric: 13%
    TV remote controls getting too complicated:22%
    Grandchildren: 15%
    The neighbor’s dog: 10%
    Saggy pants:10%

    LMAO!

    I think some of them were also complaining that they see too many “scary” people of color on TV and in sports…

  233. avatar
    Arthur August 17, 2010 at 9:46 pm #

    G wrote: I think some of them were also complaining that they see too many “scary” people of color on TV and in sports…

    Maybe M. Night Shyamalan can be coaxed into making a birther version of “The Sixth Sense.” Maybe call it “Birth-White”? The catchphrase could be, “I see black people.”

    Cast

    Phil Berg as Dr. Malcolm Crowe
    Lucas Smith as Cole Sear
    Orly Taitz as Lynn Sear
    Charles E. Lincoln III as Vincent Grey
    Michelle Malkin as Kyra Collins

    Special appearance by Rev. James Manning as “the good one.”

  234. avatar
    G August 17, 2010 at 11:18 pm #

    Arthur: Maybe M. Night Shyamalan can be coaxed into making a birther version of “The Sixth Sense.” Maybe call it “Birth-White”? The catchphrase could be, “I see black people.”

    LMAO!

  235. avatar
    Black Lion August 17, 2010 at 11:39 pm #

    Arthur: Couldn’t we just hang him until he’s really, really sorry? Wow, Black Lion, you sure know where to find the craziest comments. These folks really are bonkers.

    There are some sick puppies out there…And it all stems from the fact that they cannot accept Obama as President….However when you read their comments you see we are dealing with some seriously ignorant and stupid individuals….None of them seem to be the sharpest knives in the drawer….

  236. avatar
    Compas September 5, 2010 at 10:19 pm #

    It seems to me there is a great bias here regarding Lakin. The comparison to Bush and whether Bush provided a birth certificate or whether Lakin would have asked Bush to provide a birth certificate is irrelevant. First you have to answer the question as to whether Bush were asked to provide a birth certificate. Neither Bush nor any other President would be required to provide one unless asked. It is a matter of law whether we like it or not that a President, or even a presidential candidate must be a citizen to hold that office. .

    Now, it is always plausible that one’s citizenship is well known. It is likewise plausible that one’s citizenship is not well know resulting from the fact that in younger years one lived in a foreign country. Bush did not live in a foreign country in his younger years. Bush’s parents were not non-citizens. Those of you who have made such comparisons fall short here.

    Just in case there is an exercise of extreme bias against what I say I would like everyone here to know I was against going into the middle east under the first Bush and I was against it the second time. I think we stick our nose in everyone’s business thinking that they must be governed exactly as we are. Well, we don’t have the right to rule over the world in this fashion.

    But regarding Lakin I think you are missing the real issue. Why will this President not prove himself a citizen if he has the means? It matters not concerning Bush or any other president prior to this one. Think about it, if you were the president would you want to see this man go to jail simply because he asked for the evidence? If I were in that position first I would care more for the American people than this; secondly, I would have compassion on this man not wanting him to pay this kind of price. Remember that Ali went to jail for refusing to go to Vietnam.

    I think we are missing on this one guys. We don’t have to agree with Bush (and I don’t) or any other President on horrendous foreign policies. We don’t have to agree with other views held by Lakin. But do keep in mind that this man has served his country well. Few medical doctors desire to serve in the military in this capacity. Would Bush or McCain produce their birth certificates if called upon? I don’t know; but it matters not to me, for I would expect them to if they were asked. That of course doesn’t mean that they would. But if they didn’t then I would say they are just as lacking in respect and compassion for the American people as is President Obama.

  237. avatar
    Steve September 5, 2010 at 10:23 pm #

    Compas,
    Obama DID produce his birth certificate.

  238. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy September 5, 2010 at 10:34 pm #

    Compas: Would Bush or McCain produce their birth certificates if called upon? I don’t know; but it matters not to me, for I would expect them to if they were asked. That of course doesn’t mean that they would. But if they didn’t then I would say they are just as lacking in respect and compassion for the American people as is President Obama.

    Frankly I find your comment incomprehensible in the light of the fact that Barack Obama already published his birth certificate on the Internet in June of 2008, and the State of Hawaii subsequently confirmed in an official statement that according to Obama’s original birth certificate, he was born in Hawaii. Lakin’s doubts are not rational ones.

  239. avatar
    Slartibartfast September 5, 2010 at 10:41 pm #

    Steve: Compas,
    Obama DID produce his birth certificate.

    And soon-to-be-mister Lakin chose not to accept the same birth certificate that the 50 states and the federal government do. Other than that your argument is great, Compas – for pointless drivel, anyway…

  240. avatar
    gorefan September 5, 2010 at 10:54 pm #

    Compas: But regarding Lakin I think you are missing the real issue.

    Actually, you are missing the issue with LTC Latkin. Watch his second video, he is basing his actions on things that are irrelevant or down right false (what a Kenyan politician said, what the President’s grandmother supposedly said but actually didn’t). Had Latkin done the due diligence required of someone making such a life altering decision, he would have seen that the birther arguments are based on rumors, hearsay or outright fabrication.

  241. avatar
    Dave September 5, 2010 at 10:56 pm #

    Could we go over this part again?

    Compas:The comparison to Bush and whether Bush provided a birth certificate or whether Lakin would have asked Bush to provide a birth certificate is irrelevant. First you have to answer the question as to whether Bush were asked to provide a birth certificate. Neither Bush nor any other President would be required to provide one unless asked. It is a matter of law whether we like it or not that a President, or even a presidential candidate must be a citizen to hold that office.

    Yes, a President has to be a citizen, in fact a natural born citizen, to hold that office. So why are birthers questioning Obama when they didn’t question Bush? Your answer seems to be, they are questioning Obama because they are questioning him. Forgive me if that doesn’t seem like a very satisfactory answer.

    Your suggestion that LTC Lakin is facing charges for asking for documentation is completely contrary to the facts. He’s facing charges of disobeying orders and missing movement. Are you suggesting that officers that don’t question the President’s eligibility are allowed to disobey orders without any consequences?

    And you seem to be using the term “bias” as a way of marginalizing opinions you disagree with, and facts you find inconvenient.

  242. avatar
    Mary Brown September 5, 2010 at 11:26 pm #

    Look people it doesn’t matter what proof is presented. The President provided a certification accepted by all 50 states, the Governor of Hawaii a Republican and an ardent McCain supporter says she knows he was born in Hawaii. And she was the one who sent her official to verify the President’s place of birth, five months after he assumed office the President of the Mormon Church presented the President with his genealogy. The Mormons doing this work do not use secondary records, and I could go on. None of this will ever matter. These people will never accept this President.

  243. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) September 5, 2010 at 11:30 pm #

    Compas: It seems to me there is a great bias here regarding Lakin. The comparison to Bush and whether Bush provided a birth certificate or whether Lakin would have asked Bush to provide a birth certificate is irrelevant. First you have to answer the question as to whether Bush were asked to provide a birth certificate. Neither Bush nor any other President would be required to provide one unless asked. It is a matter of law whether we like it or not that a President, or even a presidential candidate must be a citizen to hold that office. .Now, it is always plausible that one’s citizenship is well known. It is likewise plausible that one’s citizenship is not well know resulting from the fact that in younger years one lived in a foreign country. Bush did not live in a foreign country in his younger years. Bush’s parents were not non-citizens. Those of you who have made such comparisons fall short here.Just in case there is an exercise of extreme bias against what I say I would like everyone here to know I was against going into the middle east under the first Bush and I was against it the second time. I think we stick our nose in everyone’s business thinking that they must be governed exactly as we are. Well, we don’t have the right to rule over the world in this fashion.But regarding Lakin I think you are missing the real issue. Why will this President not prove himself a citizen if he has the means? It matters not concerning Bush or any other president prior to this one. Think about it, if you were the president would you want to see this man go to jail simply because he asked for the evidence? If I were in that position first I would care more for the American people than this; secondly, I would have compassion on this man not wanting him to pay this kind of price. Remember that Ali went to jail for refusing to go to Vietnam.
    I think we are missing on this one guys. We don’t have to agree with Bush (and I don’t) or any other President on horrendous foreign policies. We don’t have to agree with other views held by Lakin. But do keep in mind that this man has served his country well. Few medical doctors desire to serve in the military in this capacity. Would Bush or McCain produce their birth certificates if called upon? I don’t know; but it matters not to me, for I would expect them to if they were asked. That of course doesn’t mean that they would. But if they didn’t then I would say they are just as lacking in respect and compassion for the American people as is President Obama.

    More meaningless hogwash. The president has shown himself to be eligible. He has done more than any sitting president to show he was born in this country. No previous president showed a birth certificate to the public before entering office. You have the State of Hawaii vouching for the authenticity saying that he meets the requirements.

    The reason why others ask about Bush’s certificate is because many birthers who have visited this site don’t stop at the birth certificate they ask for a long laundry list of documents which they have not asked of any other president.

    As for Lakin no he’s not being sent to jail for questioning the president. The whole eligibility issue has nothing to do with the situation Lakin is in. If he truly had an issue he would have disobeyed all orders from January 20th 2008 onward. But he didn’t do that now did he? He’s in trouble because he missed movement.

    You’re basically saying that anyone can just disobey orders and then randomly make up an excuse saying the president isnt eligible and then get away with it

  244. avatar
    Rickey September 5, 2010 at 11:42 pm #

    Compas: Bush did not live in a foreign country in his younger years.

    How do you know that? Have you seen Bush’s passport records? Have you filed a Freedom of Information request for them? No? I didn’t think so.

    Bush’s parents were not non-citizens.

    Have you ever seen Barbara Bush’s passport? Her birth certificate? No? I didn’t think so.

    Why will this President not prove himself a citizen if he has the means?

    Obama has shown both his birth certificate and his passport, which is more proof of citizenship than any prior President has shown.

    Any more questions?

  245. avatar
    Daniel September 6, 2010 at 12:03 am #

    I love it when birthers try to portray themselve as not being birthers, but just concerned citizens asking question……

    Does that hack acting job ever fool anyone with two brain cells to rub together?

  246. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) September 6, 2010 at 12:05 am #

    Daniel: I love it when birthers try to portray themselve as not being birthers, but just concerned citizens asking question……Does that hack acting job ever fool anyone with two brain cells to rub together?

    They somehow think that their acting job could be any better than Bridgette Nielsen in Red Sonja

  247. avatar
    sfjeff September 6, 2010 at 2:28 am #

    “Now, it is always plausible that one’s citizenship is well known.”

    I think Obama’s citizenship was better known than that of Clintons. However the only reason it was questioned was due to a smear campaign that tried to connect him with Muslims and tried- and is still trying to make him out as an alien.

    ” It is likewise plausible that one’s citizenship is not well know resulting from the fact that in younger years one lived in a foreign country. Bush did not live in a foreign country in his younger years. Bush’s parents were not non-citizens. Those of you who have made such comparisons fall short here.”

    So- Americans should question a President’s citizenship if a) he lived in a foriegn country in his younger years and b) his parents were not citizens of the United States when he was born? May I introduce you to John Quincy Adams? Of course you will scoff- that was so long ago- but since birthers are soooooooo concerned about what our ‘founding fathers’ intentions were you might think that one of them might have mentioned their concern about whether JQA was an American citizen.

    I say that the only differences in circumstances is that a) JQA was white and Obama isn’t and Obama’s middle name was Hussein instead of Quincy.

    Quick quiz- what was the citizenship of both JQA and BHA fathers at the time of their birth?

    And the reason he shouldn’t indulge Lakin is to preserve military discipline. Obama may even pardon Lakin in the end, but the point needs to be made- soldiers don’t get to demand anything from the President- or their commanding officers. That point is the same under Bush or Obama or (shudder) a Palin.

  248. avatar
    AnotherBird September 6, 2010 at 8:56 am #

    Compas: It seems to me there is a great bias here regarding Lakin. … Would Bush or McCain produce their birth certificates if called upon? I don’t know; but it matters not to me, for I would expect them to if they were asked. That of course doesn’t mean that they would. …

    Wow … utterly amazing. It is a wonder how someone could type such misinformation. The more I hear rehashed argument form “birthers” I wonder when they lost touch with reality. There is no reason to debunk every statement.

    John McCain refused to release his birth certificate when misinformation and questions about his citizenship we raised.

    Compass you need to do some more research.