While no one should be surprised by the judge Lind’s ruling today, it certainly is disappointing to the defense team of LtC Terry Lakin, the Army doctor who refused to deploy with his unit over his doubts as to whether President Obama is the legitimate commander in Chief.
The judge ruled, as a matter of law, that Lakin’s order to deploy was lawful, and refused to allow any testimony about Obama’s eligibility at the trial stage, although evidence as to motivation might be presented in sentencing phase. Defense attorney Jensen said that the judge’s ruling “gutted” his case, but he didn’t have a case in the first place.
Read more about today’s events at the National Institute of Military Justice blog.
H/t Rickey
As pointed out by obot 1024:
“At today’s court-martial session, the defense and trial counsel argued a number of motions. The defense first argued that the military judge should abate the court-martial until the Army Court of Criminal Appeals rules on a writ petition the defense inexplicably (“for reasons I can’t get into right now,” according to a defense counsel) filed just yesterday, in response to the military judge’s ruling on September 2″
For reasons he can’t get into right now?
LMAO!
” i could tell you……. but then i’d have to kill you.”
another OMG birther moment becomes a time to shout “Oh Oh”!
LOL!
Lakin should consider the “White Paper” Defense although it may be too late. Since the Court Martial rules and procedures are governed or controlled by Presidential authority, it is impossible for Lakin to participate legally any further in the court martial. Doing so would taint the very defense Lakin is holding. Lakin’s lawyers could merely say that they can and will maintain a standing objection to all hearings, motions, and testimony further until the Obama’s eligiblity is verfied and can therefore grant the authority for the court martial to even take place.
Or Lakin could try the toilet paper defense which is the entire basis of his argument
Hey tim — has LTC Lakin been accepting his paychecks? Might that too taint his defense?
Perhaps the “Nothing” defense is called for. Lakin and his legal team will do nothing. No objections, no depos, no examinations. The only thing Lakin will do is to show up and sit in a chair. It is Lakin’s standing objection that he cannot particpate in the court martial because he challenging the eligibility of Obama in regards to the lawfulness of his orders. If Lakin participates in any way in the court martial Lakin will be tainting his defense because he is conceding the lawfullness of his court martial which controlled by presidential authority, the very authority Lakin is challenging. Lakin might even wish to be placed in confinement as even sitting or showing up for his court martial might taint his defense. I admit, this should have been the plan from the get go, but to change now might already be too late.
tim, why do you call that a “defense”? In what sense will it defend him?
Lakin screwed himself when he disobeyed lawful orders. Period.
He deserves dismissal, loss of pension and prison time.
I think the last thing Terry Lakin needs right now is more crank legal advice.
With an ineligible president in office, presumably the legality of military pensions is in question. So I assume that Lakin planned to refuse his pension whatever the outcome of the court martial.
The President is a natural born citizen and eligible for the office according to the Constitution but his eligibility is irrelevant to an officer disobeying lawful orders.
All other speculation about Lakin is pointless birther drivel.
Bottom line is the fool disobeyed lawful orders. He will be convicted and dismissed.
His dog bite lawyer will try to scam as much as he can from the gullible and mentally challenged. It’s what birther lawyers do.
Wouldn’t asking for and accepting confinement be conceding that the Army has authority over him? Why is Lakin reporting for duty every day, if every order he is given is illegal? And why is he continuing to cash his paychecks?
as even sitting or showing up for his court martial might taint his defense.
What defense? The judge has ruled that the orders which Lakin disobeyed were legal orders. There is no defense left to “taint.”
I admit, this should have been the plan from the get go, but to change now might already be too late.
The plan from the get go should have been for Lakin to obey his orders, but that ship has sailed.
The fascinating thing about you birthers is that you were told from the get go that it was going to turn out this way for Lakin, but you refused to accept it.
Paul Rolf Jensen comments on Judge Lind’s rulings in United States v. Lakin: “We got absolutely slammed today.”
It must suck to be a clueless birther lawyer. How many cases have they won? Zero?
Huh.
Actually, Lakin does need to be present at his own court-martial. The proceedings can go on without him.
Mr. Jensen added: “Our arms were cut off last time. Our legs are being cut off this time.”
[King Arthur has just cut the Black Knight’s last leg off]
Black Knight: All right, we’ll call it a draw.
King Arthur: [Preparing to leave] Come, Patsy.
[King Arthur and Patsy ride off]
Black Knight: [calling after King Arthur] Oh, oh, I see! Running away, eh? You yellow b@$7@rds! Come back here and take what’s coming to you! I’ll bite your legs off!
Jensen knows a little something about things that bite.
Maybe Jensen can prove Lakin was bitten by a dog, and sue the government.
Fail.
Court Martial rules and procedures are controlled by the UCMJ, which is controlled by Congress in its Constitutional role of making rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces. The Chain of Command does not depend on the President for its authority, the Chain of Command depends on Congress for its authority. The President is CINC of that Chain of Command, but not the legalizing authority.
Constitution of the United States – Article I Section 8: The Congress shall have Power To… To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;…To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States,…
I couldn’t agree more.
So, according to that argument Lakin should also return any payment or any other compensation that he received since he decided to refuse to follow his orders.
A better argument would be for Lakin and his lawyers to respect the courts. That they should ensure that everything they submit is near perfect, and that they should submit it early to the court. That they should arrive at the court early prepared for the hearings and take notes during the hearing. Then if they disagree with the final ruling then attempt an appeal.
Like all birthers, Lakin and his team are “playing a game of chicken.” Lakin seems to hoping someone, anyone will blink first. However, his a destroyed his stellar military career over a silly conspiracy theory. The best thing he can hope for now is a short prison sentence.
No one with a brain wants to be in a military prison, especially when his reputation for disloyalty and sheer stupidity will precede him. FAIL.
In other words, Lakin should do what he has done so far… Nothing… And allow the jury to decide on his guilt and punishment.
That’s quite a plan indeed…
Do you think?…
In addition to Jensen, Lakin has a highly competent military attorney. He has to have known for some time the hopelessness of his attempt to get Obama’s eligibility decided in court. This is why I have felt for a long time that Lakin is making himself a martyr to “bring down the President.” Within the birther echo chamber where Lakin lives, he is indeed the self-sacrificing hero. What he doesn’t realize is that outside the birther movement, he’s only a nut case.
The goal of Lakin, Orly, Beck, Farah and the rest of their coterie, is to incite a lone wolf. Lupin has a point.
Le Pen is odious, but they are no more than 20%, and no one is sreaming ‘2nd Amendment solution.’ Sarkozy does not face murderous hatred. His mother was Jewish, which you will NEVER see here.
Europe learned; we have not. France does not face daily assaults on science, or fundamentalist attempts daily to declare the country a Christian nation.
Beck and Palin have one tool Coughlin and McPherson did not: television. They are all cut from the same cloth.
There is a reason Josephine Baker, Bessie Coleman and Tina Turner all went to France.
The echo chamber will not save Latkin from the place called reality.
The birthers have burned up upon reentry into reality everytime they have encountered reality in court room.
Atty Jensen is completely out of his area of expertise. This is not a small calims case – the man’s liberty is at stake.
The Army provided LTC latkin with a qualified lawyer at no expense. So his ability to appeal based on a grossly incompetent defense (the birther lawyer and the birther scho chamber) is moot. He has had proper representation available since day one, the fact that he listens to idiots on the internet is NOT the court’s concern. I hope they have internet access at the stockade.
What say you birthers? Are you proud that your idiotic rants on the internet drove this delusional birther to disobey orders?
Think I’m exaggerating? Read this:
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/29/okeefe.cnn.prank/index.html
JAG Col. Lind delayed trial one month to give time for an appeal.
Quote of the day, Doc …
“And President Richard Nixon said he wasn’t a crook, and President Clinton said he didn’t have sex with that woman,” says Jensen. “The point is, we are in a court of law, let him come in and be subject to cross examination with the original documentation. What do they have to hide?”
http://www.wusa9.com/rss/local_article.aspx?storyid=113264
After holding my nose and swimming through the odiferous cesspit of WND I parsed through the “interview” where ……
” Veterans Council and the United States Patriot Union in Sheridan, Wyo., issued a white paper calling on Lakin’s legal defense team to change strategy. ”
Basicaly it appears (apart from being De-Vatellists) that
“The Veterans Council and the United States Patriot Union offered to reinforce Lakin’s defense with one legal expert in the Uniform Code of Military Justice and another expert criminal defense lawyer. ”
This is met by a resounding “Keep you handz off our PayPal Precious”
To whit
“Margaret Hemenway, a spokeswoman for the American Patriot Foundation, the D.C. non-profit group organized to pay for the Lakin defense, explained to WND why Lakin’s defense was rejecting the offer.
“LTC Lakin is a medical officer, not a JAG or a constitutional scholar,” she said.
He is a modest and humble man who simply seeks affirmation, per his positive duty, to affirm the legality of his lawyers, she continued, stressing that Lakin is staying the course.”
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=208917
So, Lakins handlers prefer a dog bite lawyer with zero criminal and military legal experience and actively turned away (theoretically) comoetent counsel.
I can only feel at this moment that Lakins handlers are deliberately aiming for a martyrdom guilty verdict hoping for a 4 year revenue stream when he goes to Leavenworth.
I wonder when Lakin will cotton on, during or after the sentencing phase.
Oh and Sven dearie,
Interesting comment, wholly irrelevant as Lakin is on trial, not the President
perhaps sven and jensen have missed the part of the proceedings where the judge stated that the eligibility of the president has NOTHING to do with lakin refusing orders. ( hey look ! it’s the title of this thread ).
maybe they could also bring in a “punch and judy” show. it would be equally relevant to the case and would entertain any children in attendance .
I have rarely read anything more asinine…
CONGRESS (emphasis mine) dealt with Presidents Nixon and Clinton’s (alleged) transgressions. I don’t know if you’re old enough to know what I’m talking about, but your soldiers were in Viet-Nam during Nixon’s terms. And whatever many of them felt about that war, or President Nixon, not one stepped forth to refuse to obey orders because he happened to dislike the President.
In other words, Nixon might have been a crook, but the army served as was its duty.
This is a shameful, unpatriotic, cowardly statement. I hope Lakin does time.
Hey Sven, I’ve got a traffic court ticket I’m contesting next month. I’m going to subpoena you and have you finally present the evidence that you’ve been relying on when asserting that Obama revoked his citizenship between the ages of 6 and 9. Sure, it has absolutely nothing to do with the ticket, but what do you have to hide?
should all soldiers have refused orders till after a full investigation of watergate, sven ? lewinskigate ?
Here’s an interesting thought. The Repubicans take over the house. Impeach Obama, Biden for high crimes and misdemeanors and they resign.
SoS Clinton accepts their resignations and says, “Figures.”
Boom … President John Boehner
Nahhh! Huge changes at the WH is coming. C’mon, Greg, you know it’s true.
This is almost as good as your other fairy tales. But like most birthers, shows a complete lack of understanding of the constitution. Even if the Republicans take over the house, all they can do is issue articles of impeachment. They cannot remove the president. That is the job of the senate, and it needs to be done by a supermajority (which is mathematically impossible for the Republicans to gain this election). So why again would Obama, and even more Biden (what exactly do you propose he be charged with?) resign?
Put down the crack pipe sven. It’s just not that funny anymore.
….and the pirates win the world series this year !
same logic applies.
Funny that sven, while millions of soldiers, including General Petraeus, are following their orders and serving their country by doing their duty, sven believes that’s it’s OK for Lakin to refuse orders. Sven says “it’s ok to refuse orders, especially if you hate Obama”. What a knockout guy you are sven, it must be hard to type with that straight jacket on.
Sven it is a birth certificate. It isn’t that complicated of an issue. Lakin didn’t like his orders then he who accept the consequences of those actions. The courts only issue is whether or not Lakin disobey his orders. He did, cases closed.
I asked Dwight Sullivan at CAAFlog what he would recommend to Lakin if he were representing him. This is his response, which seems to me to be very sound::
Rickey, without purporting to be a defense expert, I would think there would be some value to the convening authority in LTC Lakin agreeing to a judge-alone trial. While I haven’t seen the convening order, I assume that his court-martial panel is composed of Army colonels. To ensure a quorum of 5 is seated, there are probably 8 or more colonels detailed to the case. (Has anyone seen the convening order? Does anyone have the actual numbers?) Avoiding having 8 or more colonels tied up for some amount of time for this trial is probably worth something to the convening authority. On the other hand, proving up the case will be so easy for the government, there’s probably not much trade value in a guilty plea. Guilty pleas would be a necessary condition for getting a pretrial agreement, but probably wouldn’t be worth anything to the command standing alone.
So if I were representing LTC Lakin, I would advise him to propose a pretrial agreement in which he would agree to plead guilty and would agree to proceed before a military judge alone in exchange for the convening authority’s agreement to limit some portion of the sentence. (What portion I asked to be limited would be highly dependent on what the client most wanted to avoid.) I would then seek to engage in negotiations with the CA to get the best deal possible.
There’s a chance that the CA wouldn’t agree to cut any deal at this point — though, again, to avoid having a bunch of colonels tied up for the trial, I suspect the CA would be willing to put something meaningful on the table — such as some cap on confinement.
But even if the CA didn’t agree to enter into a deal, I’d advise LTC Lakin to plead guilty and beg for mercy. If the CA wasn’t willing to offer a meaningful cap in exchange for a judge-alone deal, I would go with members. I suspect that members would adjudge a more lenient sentence than would the military judge. If the members awarded a dismissal, with its massive financial hit due to loss of all retirement benefits, I suspect they would adjudge little or no confinement if LTC Lakin were to plead guilty and be contrite during the sentencing proceeding.
I was in the Navy from the beginning of 1967 to the end of 1970, so I was there under both LBJ and Nixon. It made no difference to anyone in the military. Many people questioned the legitimacy of the war, but no one questioned the legitimacy of the President.
Not until I see his birth certificate and affidavits from four people who witnessed his birth. And what kind of a name is Boehner, anyway? It sounds awfully foreign to me. I’d like to see his Navy records, too – why was he discharged from the Navy after just eight weeks in boot camp? Not many men got to sit out the Vietnam War by serving for just two months.
You have severe brain damage. C’mon silly troll, you know it’s true.
You do know you’re a joke and a bad one at that, right?
“high crimes and misdemeanors” They outlawed your sock puppets and now you feel deprived of your multiple personalities?
And I can’t imagine birthers would think his skin is light enough for the office.
I am certainly not using France as an example — perish the thought! My own country has its own share of problems, but that’s off topic.
However, in today’s world, France is… harmless. Yes, we have nuclear subs and our diminutive president likes to send troops here and there, but mostly we export fine cuisine, wines, perfumes, films and comic books. Let’s face it, we don’t carry a lot of weight out there and no one worries about the French. 🙂
In fact, the entire European Union might be said to be an exercise in power CONTAINMENT, rather than use. I’ll leave others to debate whether this is wise or decadent.
We have admired the US because of its prodigious scientific achievement: landing a robot on Mars was a stunning victory. We also admired its press, its culture, and its freedoms.
In the eyes of many, however, since 2000, the US has turned into what its old enemy, the USSR used to be: somewhat of an evil empire.
By that I’m not referring to your massive military presence overseas, which dwarfs any other nation by many hundred times factor, but which can arguably be justified on some “realpolitik” grounds. I’m referring to the new American “evil” ideologies which are spreading like a cancer.
Let me itemize:
— who’s behind crazy or violent anti-abortion movements in Western Europe. US money.
— against climate scientists. Ditto.
— behind lobbyists trying to destroy the National Health Service in the UK? Ditto.
— behind Neo nazis in Germany and Austria? Ditto.
— Inspiring Muslim youths to take up arms? Ditto.
— Trying to ram genetically modified foods down the throats of people who don’t want them? Ditto.
— Pushing obesity worldwide with bad processed foods? Ditto.
— First to outsource & close down local factories? Ditto.
— Destroying the world’s financial systems with casino-like ponzi schemes? Ditto.
— Fighting against decent world regulations to protect children, women, the environment? Ditto.
— Propagating lunatic ideas like creationism under fake scientific trappings? Ditto.
— Exporting tasers and other fascist means of crowd controls? Ditto.
— Spying on the world’s telecommunications? Ditto.
Maybe one can argue this point or that point, and in any event, this does nothing to diminish the past achievements I’ve mentioned above, plus some of these are not the fact of the US government, but of the same crazy groups that plague your own countries, so you too suffer from some of these problems. And besides, Rupert Murdoch is Australian! 🙂
You also produce the best films and TV in the world, and your culture is as vibrant as ever. (I’ll excuse you for exporting rap music, because it is after artistic. :-))
So I’m not blaming the US of A per se, and I’m not saying all of it is bad either, but I’m just saying that, right now, “America” is a terrible influence worldwide.
I apologize if this offends anyone; it wasn’t my intention. But it may be that you don’t quite realize what you’re “projecting” abroad (willingly or not) and this might be enlightening.
Correct. He has been advised in accordance with R.C.M. 804 that his trial will continue if he is voluntarily absent. The situation of an AWOL accused is rare. But cases have proceeded once the prosecution establishes for the judge a voluntary absence.
LTC Lakin has several options at this point.
1. Continue on his current trajectory, present his testimony, and . . .
2. Negotiate for a pretrial agreement (plea bargain), which will require him to have the judge give his sentence.
3. Plead “naked,” meaning don’t negotiate and go in and throw yourself on the mercy of the panel members for a lenient sentence.
If I were his counsel I’d be looking at option 2, possibly option 3.
Option 2. has the benefit of potentially putting a known ceiling on his potential confinement time. In the military the judge does not know the precise sentence limits until after he or she has announced her sentence. They then compare the sentences and LTC Lakin gets the lesser or the two.
So, under option 2., assume a PTA to limit confinement to no more than six months.
The judge announces a dismissal and one year.
His sentence is dismissal and six months. Or,
The judge announces three months and a dismissal.
His sentence is three months and a dismissal.
On option 3., you are not required to have the judge do the sentencing. The theory is that the members would be less likely to give substantial confinement time compared to the judge if the members dismiss LTC Lakin. It’s a gamble that sometimes works. But a key to the gamble is a sincere act of throwing yourself on your sword (a military term for an extremely huge mea culpa and the fullest possible acceptance of responsibility).
Which option do you suspect LTC Lakin will take.
> 1. Continue on his current trajectory, present his testimony, and . . .
Considering the obstinacy already exhibited by the defense thus far (and considering the media dog and pony show), I pick door number 1.
I think it will be years or never before he realizes what he’s done. Birtherism is a mental disease.
Who is behind the settlers and their politicians? American money.
That’s right folks: The settlers are funded by American evangelicals. Bibi’s and Lieberman’s campaigns are funded by American money. Just as Islam has been hijacked by nihilists, Zionism, Israel, and by extension Judaism, have been hijacked by a band of fundamentalists who are ruining Israel. Those crackpots run around with a bible in one hand, and an Uzi in the other. The difference is our fundamentalists are around 300K, and gentile fundies are in the millions. They are equally pernicious: one shot Rabin for having the temerity to shake hands with Arafat, and there was Baruch Goldstein who was from Brooklyn.
– Trying to ram genetically modified foods down the throats of people who don’t want them? Ditto.
Not to argue, but we have been eating GM foods for about a century. It’s called selective breeding, and it applies to botany also. Now that process has been accelerated in the lab. What Gregor Mendel did manually, is now done under microscopes.
Birfers should be careful what they wish for. Let’s say that Sven’s fantasy comes partially true – the Democrats get slammed next month, Obama is convinced he will be removed from office. So far, so good. However, Obama fools the birfers and resigns during the lame duck session, making Biden the President. Biden then gives Obama a full pardon. Biden then resigns during the lame duck session. Guess who becomes President?
NANCY PELOSI!
And Pelosi is Italian-American and was born Nancy Patricia D’Alesandro. Restart those idiotic birther engines.
What changes would those be? Tax credits for installing a tanning bed in your bedroom? Increased Pell Grants for college students majoring in golf? Will congressmen be advising their constituents in the art of tea-bagging? Will the Department of Education Deportment offer lessons in hypocrisy? Those ARE interesting thought, Svengali.
Nancy signed off on Obama’s Cert … it wouldn’t matter how many Republicans were in the Senate, she’d be found guilty after the House impeached.
Vice President Biden has plausible deniability, he never certified anything and can say he relied on the fact that the State of Hawaii and the Governor of Hawaii have both said the President was born in Hawaii. He can even claim to having seen the President’s COLB on the Internet.
So no matter what happens in November, the best you can hope for is President Biden.
Hell, Sven, Boehner will die of skin cancer before he could ever take office. I want that pasty, hammer-head shark-faced vampire from Kentucky—Mitch “I Traded My Lips for a Campaign Donation” McConnell. America needs an experienced frowner in the White House. Haven’t had a good one since Rutherford B. Hayes.
next up…….
Daniel Inouye
then Hillary ( or did she resign or was impeached ? all i remember was she said “figures” ).
You should stop typing posts with one hand, birther troll. You’ll go more blind.
Are you in the prison library?
In which case the new President would be the President Pro Tempore of the Senate.
Since the current President PT is Daniel Inouye, America would still have a Democratic President who was born in Honolulu to (at least one) parent who was not born in the United States.
So stop grinning, old sport. Even if you did manage to subject America to the hell of impeachment for nothing, the ultimate result would be exactly the same situation you claim to decry.
“Here’s an interesting thought. The Repubicans take over the house. Impeach Obama, Biden for high crimes and misdemeanors and they resign.”
Here is another interesting thought.
Think things are ugly right now?
If the Republicans are seen to be railroading Obama and Biden with the impeachment process, the next time the Democrats control the House when there is a Republican President be prepared for trumped up charges against the Republican President also.
The thing is with impeachment- if it appears to become just a tool for handling political disagreements, both sides will start abusing the process. Things are bad enough as it is now.
My goodness, it’s going to be a bloodbath in November.
http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2010/09/27/kerchner-v-obama-update-september-27-2010-washington-times-ad-obama-ineligible/
The Petition to the U.S. Supreme Court for a Writ of Certiorari for the Kerchner et al v Obama/Congress/Pelosi et all lawsuit is scheduled to be filed by the end of this week.
http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2010/09/new-ad-ineligible-i-tried-and-lied-but.html
So Putzboy, Esq., is wasting yet more money. *yawn*
As Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Biden has seen Obama’s unredacted report on the “cauterization” of his State Department file.
He knows Obama is ineligible and should have advised Obama to reject the Democratic Nomination. Instead, he chose to run as his VP.
I see birthers are again confusing their delusional fantasies with fact. So, what else is new?
Yawn. Go wash your socks, troll.
Putzboy’s enormous ego needs stroking or he goes into a fetal position and sobs uncontrollably.
Meanwhile, back in reality . . . Lakin screwed himself and guaranteed his own conviction when he disobeyed lawful orders.
He deserves dismissal, loss of pension and the maximum prison sentence at the USDB.
You can almost hear them ejaculating all over themselves every time they come up with one of these kooky scenarios, yet, alas, none of them ever come true, and they are right back at the drawing board again and again and again. lmao
I’m not so sure this is a net expense for Mario – I’m guessing that this ad is the kind of thing that gets birthers to hit the paypal buttons…
The Clinton impeachment is a great example to see how investigations turn into witch hunts. First there was Whitewater, then Travel gate, FileGate none of which went anywhere. They finally impeached (but didn’t convict) Clinton on what the definition of “is” is. [This is oversimplified, but snappy.] For a more complete look at the Clinton impeachment, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton.
In my view, a president shouldn’t be investigates for things done before he was president while he is president, and impeachment should be reserved for serious crimes of an official nature. For unofficial crimes, there’s a criminal process that can run after his term is over.
Yes, but Inouye was born in Hawaii BEFORE it became a state. You might actually get “natural born citizen” adjudicated on that one.
Ultimately, all those idiots accomplished was to make Bill more popular.
Nah, they will kill Biden with imprecatory prayer.
I hesitate to say this, but I have always been concerned that Lakin might commit suicide.
And Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona when it was a territory, right? Were there objections?
I’m sure the court will give that spurious petition all the consideration it deserves….
I have always maintained a suspicion that the Birfer leaders were setting Lakin up for failure in order to get a martyr for the cause, and Lakin was sold out with promises that he would win…. when they knew very well he would lose.
If that is the case I suspect those same Birfer leaders would be ecstatic if Lakin did commit suicide. Dead martyrs are worth 10 live ones, especially live ones that might change their mind about suporting the cause after a lengthy prison term.
While I don’t want encourage the suspicions that folks here (besides Sven) are posting under multiple names, “tim” is the same person as “John” who is the same person as “James.” This person is banned here, but attempts to slip by from time to time, sometimes successfully. I let a few through because the purpose of the ban is to keep someone from hijacking the discussion with frequent inflammatory comments, not to actually prevent someone from saying anything. James did leave one comment today that I wouldn’t have allowed from anybody.
What was really interesting was that two of his recent comments ended up in the spam bucket, which is completely external to this site and its bans.
Then what do you call Charles Curtis, who was Vice President of the United States? He was born in Kansas approximately 1 year before Kansas was a state.
That one, based upon the precedent of Charles Curtis, would be ruled to be eligible.
I have been watching DOD’s stats on suicides within the military for a while now. I was drawn to this issue because of personal experiences and experiences of colleagues. I have had the experience of one appellate client committing suicide just as he was about to get a win in his case, another committed suicide a few days before the Article 32 was about to commence. I have anecdotal information of other cases, and I’m told one happened recently.
Sadly this is a growing factor in cases, primarily relating to the “crackdown” on sexual assaults in the military. DOD stats don’t appear to address of account for this phenomena. The accused is guilty and must prove his innocence and the Congress and medial are taking great steps to make it impossible to defend against false accusations.
However, I do not sense the concerns as to LTC Lakin.
I would call that a political precedent, but not a legal precedent. BTW, the Wikipedia article doesn’t say anything about Inouye’s parents, which is unusual.
Glad to hear it.
It’s very unlikely that he will get the “maximum prison sentence”, for one thing military sentencing is usually much less than the maximum and there are two recommendations at trial for sentencing of which the lesser is given. In addition, the convening authority, in this case a Major General, has the option of putting the sentence aside and making a deal with the person found guilty.
The reason for this seemingly odd way of handling things is that even if a soldier is found guilty of a UCMJ violation that soldier may be more valuable as a soldier than a prisoner in the stockade. It’s possible with the right plea bargain that he could even serve out his twenty years and retire but that would have to be one hell of a bargain.
CAPT Yolanda Huet-Vaughn was an eleven year veteran of the NG and Reserve who refused to go to Desert Storm. Like LTC Lakin she was Medical Corps and disobeyed direct orders for political reasons. She ended up with a reduced sentence and was out well before all of the appeals were finished.
What LTC Lakin has to worry about is the fall out. At the least he could spend time in prison. I say the “least” because he could also lose what amounts to millions of dollars in pension over the years and surrender his pay for the period of time he was not following orders. Had he stayed in and served his time, he would not be that old when he retires and will have another 20 or so years left in which he could practice medicine.
Even though he will suffer some punishment for what he did, his actions are not a felony. They are a violation of UCMJ and roughly equivalent to a felony but have no civilian counterpart. CAPT Heut-Vaughn was able to retain her medical license in Kansas but had to pay a hefty fine. Each medical board has to make a decision whether or not LTC Lakin’s actions constitute a violation of the ethical code (including comitting a felony) and each of his states (HI, MD, CO) have different rules and regulations.
He will find that even if he does not lose a license that his actions will probably be placed on a National Database by one of the medical boards (HI, ironically, is the most likely) and that entry will haunt him his whole medical career.
i suspect that he will serve a minimal amount of time in prison, be dismissed and possibly lose his pension since he did not serve out the twenty years needed to get one.
I also suspect that he will be able to practice medicine somewhere. In spite of her transgressions, CAPT Heut-Vaughn was able to retain her license. It helped a lot that some of the Kansas based physicians who were members of her unit pointed out that she served an under served low income area of Kansas City. They did so in spite of holding her in contempt as an officer because it was the right thing to do.
I don’t know anything about LTC Lakin’s character or what kind of physician he is, but the Army thought highly of him and his abilities – he was selected for COL before this happened – but it is likely that he will not lose everything.
Father came to Hawai’i aged 4 , mother was an orphan of a japanese family and was, I think, born in Hawai’i.
http://books.google.com/books?id=prhRl6DYXRMC&pg=PA135&lpg=PA135&dq=Hyotaro+and+Kame+Inouye&source=bl&ots=E_8ItkE6s0&sig=yT4g3nazML_tXSrBrtKGa8W4qOI&hl=en&ei=oKyjTJvuEIL7lwfXufmYBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Hyotaro%20and%20Kame%20Inouye&f=false
Which SCOTUS will reject, most likely without comment, thereby keeping my perfect record of predictions intact.
What is your batting average, Sven?
.
Might make an interesting case. Pretty clear that the territories would be included under the English common law. However, I think the courts have interpreted the text of the 14th Amendment as not applying to territories even under our total control. Don’t know much about such cases. Such argument might be supported by the text but is clearly contrary to the legislative history where there was no question that civilized indians born in the territories would be born citizens. Denver was specifically mentioned which was not part of a state at such time.
Hm. I would think that the Goldwater and Curtis precedents would apply to a theoretical President Inouye. However, if he were ineligible, say hello to President Hillary Rodham Clinton, which would at least get the PUMAs to shut up.
Wasn’t one of Tribe’s arguements (although persuasive, not precident) for Sen McCain’s NBC that the Cannal Zone was under the jurisdiction of the US, so by those terms he was natural born? If the Cannal Zone could be arguably under the jurisdiction, I would think there would be little question as to the States while still territories.
But Biden has also seen the secret files on the Republican leadership and will use those to blackmail them. They obviously will not want to be put on trail as war criminals before the Hague and will quickly acquiesce to any demands President Biden makes.
If O’Donnell wins, she can just cast a death curse on him. That might work faster than prayer.
I appreciate your feedback and I agree. That’s why I chose carefully to say, “He deserves . . . (IMNSHO).
“He will find that even if he does not lose a license that his actions will probably be placed on a National Database by one of the medical boards (HI, ironically, is the most likely) and that entry will haunt him his whole medical career.”
Good.
But there’s is one thing you didn’t consider. That he’s delusional enough to continue or even ratchet up his birther campaign still desperately trying to be the hero and champion of justice. That could end badly.
Sen. Leahy prepping for a Constitutional Crisis where two SCOTUS Justices will have to recuse themselves …
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, Vermont Democrat, has proposed a bill that would allow for retired Supreme Court Justices to sit on the court by designation in cases where the active justice has recused.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2010/sep/29/leahy-allow-retired-justices-sit-scotus/
I’m honestly curious. Are you really so stupid and out of it as to believe this nonsense is going anywhere, or do you just do this for amusement?
Amusement.
A desperately lonely troll with serious mental problems.
bu bu bu but!
That makes him Jewish, does it not? Why the distraction of citing his mother here!?! Just curious, not criticizing.
Yeah, he creates two identities, and congratulates himself. Christine O’Donnell has a word for that, but she forbade me to mention it, much less do it.
Because there will never be a Jewish prez, nor VP. I was agreeing with Lupin that we are regressing, while France is progressing.
The reason so many conservatives are hostile to public education, is a poorly read electorate benefits them. Just like during the Civil War, when those at the bottom were convinced to be fodder.
Not to argue, but putting insect or other DNA into canola is NOT the same thing as selective breeding. GM is fundamentally different than selective breeding, and no amount of ‘accelerated’ breeding is ever going to produce an insect/plant cross.
That is not to say that there is any nutritional ‘danger’ in GM foods, the significant danger is in the patenting and the coercion to adopt the product at the farm gate.
I was under the impression that there was already precedent for this. I’ll have to try digging it out, but Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona Territory (i.e. before statehood) and I think he was ‘officially’ ruled eligible. Possibly by reference to the law that includes U.S. Territories in the definition of U.S. soil for birth right citizenship purposes?.
You’re probably right, but I hope he’s punished enough to make an example out of him so nobody else wants to pull this stunt again.
I’m responding to myself, dig?
I can find no ‘official’ adjudication of Goldwater’s status. McCain claimed it had gone to SCOTUS, but I cannot find anything to confirm this.
USC Title 8 specifically addresses persons born in Alaska after 1867 and Hawai’i after 1899 before statehood, but not Arizona or New Mexico or any other current state.
Goldwater was born in Phoenix, which is in that part of Arizona that was acquired from Mexico after the Mexican-American war in 1848 (southern Arizona was acquired by the Gadsden purchase in 1854). The Territory of New Mexico was formally established in 1850 and included parts of what is now Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, and of course, New Mexico. Arizona became a territory in its own right in 1863.
So the same issues that encouraged Congress to make special mention of Hawai’i and Alaska existed in New Mexico and Arizona years before either of those two states.
Possibly cases like Goldwater’s may have been the specific driver behind the Alaskan and Hawai’ian clauses. Possibly, Congress felt, at the time of the inclusion of these two clauses that it was no longer necessary to mention Arizona or New Mexico, since they had been states since 1912 and there were few living persons born there before 1912. On the other hand there are lots of Alaskans and Hawai’ians living that were born before 1959. I have no idea of the real history of these clauses, just speculating.
Perhaps they should channel deceased Supreme Court justices with a Magic 8 Ball®.
Is Obama eligible to be president? Reply hazy, try again
Thanks for the link. I tried it:
Q: Is Obama eligable to be President? Reply: As I see it, yes.
Q: is Lakin guilty? Reply: Without a doubt.
Clearly your Magic 8 Ball session was channeling Chief Justice John Marshall himself.
This has zip to do with the President. My money’s on this being aimed at justices like Roberts and Scalia having to recuse themselves in future campaign financing cases or other instances where they own stock.
And those were the honest-to-gosh first questions and first answers that came up!
The children of darkness wait for confirmation.
I was talking about the ones with added genes to kill insects etc which like in Montana (or somewhere around there) are spreading uncontrollably with unintended ecological consequences
http://www.highstrangeness.tv/show_news.php?n=3210
Besides, my point is, if the “natives” don’t want them, right or wrong, respect their wishes. why is Monsanto coming into our country corrupting our laws and politics with their money to lobby to sell their wares? To tamper with existing EU labeling policies?
I was wrong. I agree that Americans throwing around cash, expecting to buy their way in, is causing upheaval.
I think you and I are on the same page. I disapprove of Jose Bove’s grandstanding tactics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Bov%C3%A9
but I am forced to reluctantly concede he has a point when Monsanto’s dirty lobbying tactics in Europe are exposed.
The reasonably worded wiki entry on the food labeling controversy is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_trade_of_genetically_modified_foods#European_Proposal_over_Genetically_Modified_Food
Let me highlight this:
The American Agricultural Department officials answer that since the United States does not require labeling, Europe should not require labeling either.
(And this BTW is not just about GMF — it also concerns dyes & other additives:
http://www.cspinet.org/new/201007201.html)
So to sum up: because your own country is in thrall to the lobbies of corporations like Monsanto and arguably sacrificing its own citizens’ health to the greed of these companies, we in Europe should do the same.
This, and a myriad of other things like that, is what’s making America in this first decade of the 21st century deeply unpopular amongst various classed of ordinary people on the other side of the world.
Our elites are no more honest than yours, and corruption seeps in and it is increasingly hard to stop that sort of things legally, hence creating unintended chaotic counteractions like Jose Bové’s further tainting the fabric of our societies.
I don’ t have easy answer not can I speculate what will eventually happen, but as Dr. C pointed out the other day there is a pendulum in the affairs of men: force, counterforce, and if this isn’t good for us, it may also end up being bad for America.
http://www.cspinet.org/new/201007201.html
the bracket at the end screwed up the link
More insane Lakin supporters….I guess they didn’t like the CBS report on Lakin…
http://gretawire.forums.foxnews.com/topic/cbs-affiliate-spewing-obama-lies-about-patriot-ltc-lakin?replies=16
I notice that the originator of that thread on Gretawire sends us to a letter by Jeff Tetreault on P&M calling for mutiny among the troops to protect a way of life in the miltary that doesn’t exist. I suspect that Mr. Tetreault (if that is his real name) never served.
I’ve thought that, too, Doc. The Lakin case reminds me far too much of a case about a decade ago involving a then-notorious net kook named Earl Gordon Curley. He originally was a self-proclaimed psychic, but with the egging on of a lot of fellow kooks and cranks, he eventually progressed to defaming a well-known figure. Encouraged by other kooks, who used him as a stalking horse to attack their common enemy, he dared that person to sue him. The guy (James Randi) promptly filed suit against Curley, who continued to bluster as the court date drew near. Not long before the court date, Curley was found dead, apparently having drunk himself to death. I suspect it finally dawned on him that all of his supposed supporters were actually just using him to get their shots in at Randi, while he was the one left holding the legal bag.
I wonder if Chief Justice Roberts has recused himself from all of the eight previous Obama eligibility appeals that have had cert conferences and been denied. After all, Justice Roberts swore Obama in as president, twice.
James/Sven/et-al
Do explain to the wider audience the legal doctrine yiu have in that cavernous echo chamber called your mind, how Justice Roberts, performing a purely ceremonial duty gets to recuse himself then from ALL cases with ” US v xxxx” or “xxxx v US”.
Really….cause that’s what you are implying….swear in the President….tainted for all governmental cases…..?
Go on, show us the law cases supporting that…..it’ll be fun.
Muppet
I think you’re confusing James777 with James
Please, please don’t make that mistake! 😉
That “purely ceremonial duty” is mandated by the Constitution. See Article 2, Section 1, Clause 8.
I think that you might have missed the words “I wonder if…” before my purely speculative comment that Justice Roberts MIGHT have recused himself.
Since my attempt at irony was lost on Bovril, I was only joking that Sven’s hope for recusals might mean the conservative justices that he hopes will rule Obama to be ineligible could conceivably be the ones who are sitting out.
The Supreme Court operates under the tradition of “the rule of four” which means four of the nine justices must agree to “grant cert” in order for an appeal to be heard by the full Court.
The Constitution does not mandate that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court administer the oath, only that the President swear it. It’s merely a tradition and a gesture of respect to have the Chief Justice do it. Several Presidents have been sworn in by others, most recently LBJ, who was sworn in on Air Force One as soon as it was known that Kennedy died.
My aplogies to Jamese777, with the plethora of Sven sockie puppets it gets difficult to remember which one is which………..
That would normally be noted if it happened. You can see orders denying cert that say something like, “The Chief Justice took no part in the consideration or decision of this petition”.
Also, I know of just five cert conferences on birther suits: Berg, Beverly, Craig, Herbert, and Schneller. If we also count stays that went to the full court that would be more than eight, with Berg, Donofrio, Lightfoot, Wrotnowski, and Taitz.
Yes I know.
But in the case of President Obama, it was the Chief Justice and with issues of Obama’s eligibility coming before the high court many times now, I thought it posed an interesting judicial issue to speculate upon..
There are birther conspiracy nuts who think that the Chief Justice was in on some sort of plot to get Obama into the White House.
It was part of deal to get Roberts confirmed as Chief Justice. Oops, no, actually Senator Obama cast one of just 22 votes *against* Roberts’ confirmation.
Case law dealing with the subject is pretty thin, but as it goes, per the Insular Cases, the situation is that Incorporated Territories are considered to be places where the Constitution fully applies, and Unincorporated Territories only have partial application. Alaska and Hawaii, prior to their admission as States, were Incorporated Territories, and so any argument against Inouye’s natural-born citizenship would run into that; I would say that Boumediene v. Bush would also be a useful, more recent jumping off point for an imaginative lawyer wanting to tackle the subject.
Ha! The latest that I am hearing from Birthers is that because Berg v Obama was before the Court on a petition for a Writ of Certiorari, that it was highly unethical for Roberts to invite Obama and Biden over for cocktails and a chat. Only Samuel Alito, who didn’t show up for the meeting had any legal ethics in that situation.
No problem! “To err is human…”
To forgive unlikely but a nice surprise.
It can be done by any official authorized to administer an oath, from notaries public on up. Calvin Coolidge was sworn in by his father (a notary) at the family farm in Plymouth Union, Vermont, by the light of a kerosene lamp in the family parlor. Coolidge then went back to bed since there were no trains until the next day and he saw no reason not to catch some more sleep.
Mario’s petition for cert in the Kerchner case has been docketed at SCOTUS.
http://www.supremecourt.gov/Search.aspx?FileName=/docketfiles/10-446.htm
What are the odds that the birthers concoct a conspiracy about why the response is due the day after the election?
You know, if they had sanctioned him for filing a frivolous lawsuit, this probably would not be happening. The court called it frivolous, yet he insists on filing for a writ.
Farah Whines Again About Birther Coverage
Topic: WorldNetDaily
Is it time for Joseph Farah to whine about coverage of the birther movement in news outlets other than his own? Heck, it’s always time for that. From Farah’s Oct. 1 WorldNetDaily column:
Here’s a recent example from the State, a daily in Columbia, S.C.: “The so-called ‘birther movement’ has questioned the president’s citizenship, claiming Obama’s birth certificate, issued by the state of Hawaii is a fake.”
The paper uses the derisive term “birther movement,” the appellation of choice by those who ridicule the curious constitutionalists. The paper suggests the focus of this movement representing 58 percent of the American people, according to the latest CNN poll, is “citizenship,” when it is actually “natural born citizenship.” The paper suggests a birth certificate has been produced by the state of Hawaii when it hasn’t been. And the paper suggests the primary dispute is over whether this unseen document is a fake.
This is but one of hundreds of examples of this kind of distorted press coverage by news agencies big and small all making assertions that are untrue and contemptuous.
This pattern raises two questions in my mind:
Why don’t any of these news sources – newspapers, wire services and television networks – bother to talk to anyone from this “movement”?
From where do they get their information, their impressions, their “facts”?
I have practiced the profession of journalism for 35 years. I’ve never done anything else since becoming an adult. I have literally done everything you can do in the world of daily journalism, from reporting to running major market newspapers. It was always my impression that we were supposed to interview the people we wrote about. But, in the case of the so-called “birthers,” or, as I like to put it, the “curious constitutionalists,” it seems to be fair game to stereotype their beliefs with broad brush treatment and, most importantly, never to talk to them.
NEVER!
Farah, as always, is being disingenuous. He knows darn well that one significant component of the birther movement is citizenship; it’s only been in recent months that he has changed the focus of his jihad from citizenship to “eligibility.”Even Farah isn’t so stupid to claim WND has never questioned Obama’s citizenship and the authenticity of the birth certificate the Obama campaign released, because it has.
Farah’s complaint that birthers like him are never contacted for media interviews is also disingenuous. It’s not like anyone is barred from reading WND’s articles on the issue — it even conveniently puts them into one place. Plus, telling both sides of the story is not exactly a journalistic virtue WND is known for.
Nevertheless, Farah trudges on:
One mischaracterization leads to another. One factual error leads to another. One derisive term leads to another.
This is actually counterfeit journalism – with each new story on a subject deriving its assertions of “fact” from another.
Farah and WND know all about publishing factual errors, don’t they?
http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog/2067480/farah-whines-again-about-birther-coverage/
Joseph Farah needs a lot more practice at journalism.
I guess Doc is busy poring over this tonight
http://www.scribd.com/doc/38506403/Petition-for-Writ-of-Certiorari-filed-with-the-U-S-Supreme-Court-for-Kerchner-v-Obama-Congress
Good point. Of course, the defendants probably will waive their right to file a response because they know that SCOTUS will not grant cert.
Farah complaining about dishonest journalism?
OMG I have to go shut off the irony meters!!!! I can’t afford to lose all of them at once to the massive overload!!!
I wish he would not be dishonest about those barnyard animals. All he has to do is make a simple denial, and this will be over tonight.
Just like Glenn Beck has never denied raping and murdering that poor girl in 1990.
I’ve read some of it, and it looks like Apuzzo thinks he can fool the Supreme Court by putting lipstick on his pig. At bottom, he’s still making the same two ridiculous claims:
1. The court must tell Obama to release everything they want to them to satisfy their curiosity
2. American law is based on Swiss philosophy
I don’t think Glenn Beck has even hinted at a denial. Considering how birthers love perpetrators of domestic violence, I would have to believe it is true at this point. I have not seen even ONE shred of evidence that would clear him.