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Boehner abdicates leadership position on birther question

House Speaker John Boehner

Newly elected Speaker of the US House of Representatives, John Boehner, was questioned by NBC News correspondent Brian Williams. Here’s the relevant section:

Williams: I’m curious as to how much responsibility you feel specifically because of something that happened this morning. During the reading of the Constitution, Congressman Frank Pallone of New Jersey, was reading a portion of the document, interrupted by someone who heckled from within the chamber. It was to express doubt over the president’s American citizenship. Provided you believe the president is an American citizen, you’ve got 12 members co-sponsoring legislation that does about the same thing, it expresses doubt. Would you be willing to say, “This is a distraction, I’ve looked at it to my satisfaction. Let’s move on”?

Boehner: The state of Hawaii has said that President Obama was born there. That’s good enough for me.

Williams: Would you be willing to say that message to the 12 members in your caucus who seem to either believe otherwise or are willing to express doubt and have co-sponsored legislation?

Boehner: Brian, when you come to the Congress of the United States, there are 435 of us. We’re nothing more than a slice of America. People come, regardless of party labels, they come with all kinds of beliefs and ideas. Uh it’s, it’s the melting pot of America. It’s not up to me to tell them what to think.

On most matters, it is the job of the leader of the party to keep the members in line. At least in public Speaker Boehner seems content to let his nut-case colleagues do their own thing.

126 Responses to Boehner abdicates leadership position on birther question

  1. avatar
    Bovril January 7, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

    Poor old Boehner, for a usually very slippery K street operator he dove straight in….. 😎

    His single statement drives a stake into multiple Birther shibboleth’s

    1. The PRESIDENT…..there goes the Illegitimate bit
    2. He’s an American Citizen
    3. His BC/COLB is whole and sufficient
    4. Vattel can go swing
    5. The POTUS is not Kenyan
    6. Hawai’in BC’s are good to go
    7. Dual nationality or rather the POTENTIAL of elapsed dual nationality is irrelevant.

    All neatly encapsulated in 17 words.. 😉

  2. avatar
    Freddy N. January 7, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    Obama listened to his spiritual mentor Jeremiah Wright preach the CIA invented AIDS and he never objected.

  3. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 7, 2011 at 2:44 pm #

    Freddy N.: Obama listened to his spiritual mentor Jeremiah Wright preach the CIA invented AIDS and he never objected.

    Really you saw Obama seated during the sermon when Jeremiah Wright mentioned that?

  4. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    Freddy N.: Obama listened to his spiritual mentor Jeremiah Wright preach the CIA invented AIDS and he never objected.

    He never objected?

    Speaking for the media’s mainstream, ABC News’ Senior National Correspondent, Jake Tapper, wrote (March 14, 2008), “Let’s just say it: some of Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s theories and sermons have been, well, shall we say out there.’ Like, for instance, the notion that the U.S. government started the AIDS virus.”

    Obama, quickly closing the closet door between him offered, “I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy,”

    Should people make up crap about you without any credible evidence and post it all over the web like a raving, clueless lunatic?

    So are you deliberately lying or just an ignorant fool?

  5. avatar
    Freddy N. January 7, 2011 at 3:04 pm #

    In 2008 he told a reporter he objected to his close personal friend preaching the CIA caused AIDS. He never objected while Wright was doing it. For years Obama was content to let his nut case spiritual mentor “do his own thing”.

  6. avatar
    Black Lion January 7, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    Old buddy Citizen Wells is none too happy about Bohner’s statement…

    John Boehner call me, Call John Boehner, US Constitution, Natural Born Citizen, You just took the oath, You just read the US Constitution
    Posted on January 6, 2011
    by citizenwells|

    “Why has Obama, for over 2 years, employed numerous private and government attorneys to avoid presenting a legitimate birth certificate and college records?”…Citizen Wells and millions of concerned Americans

    “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United
    States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be
    eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be
    eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of
    thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the
    United States.”…US Constitution

    I
    Am
    Pissed!

    John Boehner, you just took the oath and read the US Constitution! The requirement for president is not citizen! It is Natural Born Citizen! And while we are at it, the State of Hawaii has not verified that Obama was born there!

    The following statement is a lie:

    “ despite the release of his birth certificate showing that he was born in Hawaii.”

    John Boehner, call me!

    We will be calling John Boehner!

    http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2011/01/06/john-boehner-call-me-call-john-boehner-us-constitution-natural-born-citizen-you-just-took-the-oath-you-just-read-the-us-constitution/

    And in the comments….

    From July, 2009
    —————
    “John Boehner dismisses birthers”

    “The “birther” movement has gotten a lot of ink lately, but House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) is clearly uninterested in giving the Barack Obama birth certificate question any more attention.

    When asked about the birther issue during a Christian Science Monitor lunch with reporters on Wednesday, Boehner was dismissive of the topic. Boehner signaled that for House GOP leaders, this question isn’t on the radar screen in any way.

    When pressed by another reporter as to whether he had any doubts that Obama was born in Hawaii, Boehner had a curt, one-word answer: “No.””

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25572.html

    But best response of all is the following…

    qwertyman | January 6, 2011 at 6:06 pm |
    Claiming that the use of the phrase “law of nations” in the Constitution is a reference to Vattel is like claiming any time a priest talks about “angels and demons” in a sermon he MUST be referring to a Dan Brown book.

  7. avatar
    BatGuano January 7, 2011 at 3:07 pm #

    Majority Will: He never objected?

    Speaking for the media’s mainstream, ABC News’ Senior National Correspondent, Jake Tapper, wrote (March 14, 2008), “Let’s just say it: some of Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s theories and sermons have been, well, shall we say out there.’ Like, for instance, the notion that the U.S. government started the AIDS virus.”

    a swing and a miss, freddy!

  8. avatar
    BatGuano January 7, 2011 at 3:14 pm #

    Freddy N.: He never objected while Wright was doing it. For years Obama was content to let his nut case spiritual mentor “do his own thing”.

    how do you know? were you privy to all conversations between the two?

    and unless you’re a parent or in law enforcement we all let others “do their own thing”.

  9. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 3:26 pm #

    I think Boehner is smarter than some on this blog give him credit for. He has distanced himself personally, and as Speaker of the House, from the issue and yet at the same time refuses to put the muzzle on those who would speak out on Truther issues. And at the same time, I think he did so rather eloquently:

    “We’re [the members of the House] nothing more than a slice of America. People come, regardless of party labels, they come with all kinds of beliefs and ideas..it’s the melting pot of America. It’s not up to me to tell them what to think.”

    And, indeed, there is something to be said for the First Amendment. Long live the Constitution!

  10. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 3:28 pm #

    Freddy N.: In 2008 he told a reporter he objected to his close personal friend preaching the CIA caused AIDS. He never objected while Wright was doing it. For years Obama was content to let his nut case spiritual mentor “do his own thing”.

    Yes, please explain how you know? Were you a witness or are you still pulling stuff out of your rear?

    In your first post, you said, “and he never objected.”

    You just proved in your next post you were lying in your first post and now you’re backpedalling and lying even more.

    Do you ever tell the truth? How’s that confirmation bias working out for the birthers?

  11. avatar
    Freddy N. January 7, 2011 at 3:41 pm #

    In 2008 Obama said that, well after the fact, to a reporter. While Wright was preaching racist conspiracy Obama refused to step up and challenge him.

  12. avatar
    Greg January 7, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    Freddy N.: In 2008 Obama said that, well after the fact, to a reporter. While Wright was preaching racist conspiracy Obama refused to step up and challenge him.

    So, don’t vote for him. It doesn’t make him ineligible, though.

  13. avatar
    Scientist January 7, 2011 at 3:50 pm #

    So Freddy, what is your point? You can, if you’d like, base your vote in 2012 on what Obama did before taking office. However, most voters when faced with an incumbent President will judge based on his time IN office, and properly so. Don’t kid yourself that Rev Wright, birth certificates or any such other historical footnotes will matter. I predicted when Obama took office that if unemployment was trending down in 2012 he would be re-elected. So far the odds are good that will be the case. Moreover, having the house in Republican hands has improved Obama’s re-election chances, as they are guaranteed to piss people off in the next 2 years (they’re off to great start in that direction after only 2 days).

    Obama is well ahead of where Clinton and Reagan were at this point and you know what happened to them. in fact, Obama’s approval ratings are astoundingly good considering the state of the economy.

  14. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    Freddy N.: In 2008 Obama said that, well after the fact, to a reporter. While Wright was preaching racist conspiracy Obama refused to step up and challenge him.

    Again, how do you know he never objected to Reverend Wright??

    Were you privy to every conversation, every meeting, every service? Do you have sworn testimony? Witnesses? Affidavits?

    Were you there? Of course not, you’re a teenager.

    You’ve already caught yourself in a lie. Why should we believe anything you post?

  15. avatar
    Black Lion January 7, 2011 at 3:55 pm #

    Freddy N.: In 2008 he told a reporter he objected to his close personal friend preaching the CIA caused AIDS. He never objected while Wright was doing it. For years Obama was content to let his nut case spiritual mentor “do his own thing”.

    “Nutcase spirtual mentor”?

    You mean this guy?

    Jeremiah Wright – “In 1961 Wright left college and joined the United States Marine Corps and became part of the 2nd Marine Division attaining the rank of private first class. In 1963, after two years of service, Wright joined the United States Navy and entered the Corpsman School at the Great Lakes Naval Training Center.[12][13] Wright was then trained as a cardiopulmonary technician at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland. Wright was assigned as part of the medical team charged with care of President Lyndon B. Johnson (see photo of Wright caring for Johnson after his 1966 surgery). Before leaving the position in 1967, the White House Physician, Vice Admiral Burkley, personally wrote Wright a letter of thanks on behalf of the United States President.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright

    I thought you guys loved war heros….Lakin, Kerchner, Fitzpatrick, Valley and others….Why the hate of Wright?

  16. avatar
    BatGuano January 7, 2011 at 4:00 pm #

    Freddy N.: While Wright was preaching racist conspiracy Obama refused to step up and challenge him.

    again, how do you know that?

  17. avatar
    Freddy N. January 7, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    Wright’s a war hero?

  18. avatar
    Bovril January 7, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    At least as much as Lakin…….

  19. avatar
    ellid January 7, 2011 at 4:04 pm #

    Freddy N.: In 2008 he told a reporter he objected to his close personal friend preaching the CIA caused AIDS. He never objected while Wright was doing it. For years Obama was content to let his nut case spiritual mentor “do his own thing”.

    \

    Please produce the following:

    1. Footage from one of Rev. Wright’s sermons proving that the President did not object to the CIA/AIDS link.

    2. Any link between what President did as an adult and his birth on American soil.

    Thank you.

  20. avatar
    ellid January 7, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    Freddy N.: Wright’s a war hero?

    He was part of the medical team that treated President Johnson in the 1960s. Clearly the government had no problem with him having intimate access to the President. Why do you care?

  21. avatar
    Black Lion January 7, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    Freddy N.: the White House Physician, Vice Admiral Burkley, personally wrote Wright a letter of thanks on behalf of the United States President.”

    As much as Lakin, Fitzpatrick, Pam Barnett, or Kerchner or anyone else you can dig up….Any of them did something well enough to have someone write a letter of commendation? If you recall “the White House Physician, Vice Admiral Burkley, personally wrote Wright a letter of thanks on behalf of the United States President.” Now that’s impressive….Unlike Lakin who deserted his unit or Fitzpatrick who was court martialled….

  22. avatar
    Freddy N. January 7, 2011 at 4:14 pm #

    “He was part of the medical team that treated President Johnson in the 1960s”

    The claim was made he was a “war hero”. What war was he in, and what did he do that was heroic?

    Lakin has a Bronze Star.

    It’s obvious Obama was untroubled by Wright’s lunacy. He maintained his close relationship with Wright (unlike some), and named a book after the title of one of Wright’s sermons.

  23. avatar
    AnotherBird January 7, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    Boehner should understand that the issue isn’t about the different ideas of 435 members of Congress, but one idea of 12 in his caucus.

  24. avatar
    Black Lion January 7, 2011 at 4:24 pm #

    Freddy N.: “He was part of the medical team that treated President Johnson in the 1960s”The claim was made he was a “war hero”. What war was he in, and what did he do that was heroic?Lakin has a Bronze Star.It’s obvious Obama was untroubled by Wright’s lunacy. He maintained his close relationship with Wright (unlike some), and named a book after the title of one of Wright’s sermons.

    Lakin’s Bronze Star was not with cluster…The people on this blog that were in the service can tell you the difference….Secondly you have no clue what the President was troubled with….And you seem not to be troubled to call a decorated veteran of the armed forces and with multiple degrees a “lunatic”…Interesting…Lakin screws over his unit, fellow soldiers, the Army, and his country and you find him a hero…But Wright exercising his first amenedment rights of free speech is considered :lunacy”….Wow…No wonder why you birthers fail so much….The Obama derangement has really affected your brains….

  25. avatar
    Black Lion January 7, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

    Freddy N.: “He was part of the medical team that treated President Johnson in the 1960s”The claim was made he was a “war hero”. What war was he in, and what did he do that was heroic?Lakin has a Bronze Star.It’s obvious Obama was untroubled by Wright’s lunacy. He maintained his close relationship with Wright (unlike some), and named a book after the title of one of Wright’s sermons.

    Not sure abou you but being part of a team that saved the President would be considered pretty heroic to many….And his contribution was such that a 3 star admiral personally wrote him a letter of thanks was impressive….However you are of the mind that someone like Kerchner is sane puts everything in perspective….

  26. avatar
    Freddy N. January 7, 2011 at 4:33 pm #

    “And you seem not to be troubled to call a decorated veteran of the armed forces and with multiple degrees a ‘lunatic'”

    You seem not be troubled by someone claiming the CIA invented AIDS, then infected blacks with it.

    “Wright exercising his first amenedment rights of free speech is considered :lunacy”

    Wright has made numerous lunatic statements. He gave an award for “social service” to the even more lunatic Louis Farrakhan.

    “No wonder why you birthers fail so much”

    I’m not a birther. Like Gov. Abercrombie, I would like to see a release of all the relevant information.

  27. avatar
    Rickey January 7, 2011 at 4:38 pm #

    Freddy N.: You seem not be troubled by someone claiming the CIA invented AIDS, then infected blacks with it.

    Yawn.

    This was hashed and re-hashed during the 2008 campaign. The voters (well, 70 million of them at least) didn’t care. More important, Obama’s relationship with Wright has nothing to due with his eligibility to be President. Give it a rest.

  28. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    Freddy N.: I’m not a birther. Like Gov. Abercrombie, I would like to see a release of all the relevant information.

    You’re about as birther as they get especially considering your strong, abject denial of reality, blatant confirmation bias, constant goalpost moving and backpedalling.

    You have a permanent case of ODS but you just won’t admit it.

  29. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    OK. Try this. I’m not a birther. Like Chris Matthews, I would like to see a release of all the relevant information

  30. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 7, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    lester: OK.Try this.I’m not a birther. Like Chris Matthews, I would like to see a release of all the relevant information

    I guess that means you want it to be released in Braille then.

  31. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    Braille would be fine.

  32. avatar
    Greg January 7, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    Freddy N.: You seem not be troubled by someone claiming the CIA invented AIDS, then infected blacks with it.

    Don’t wear out this Jeremiah Wright stuff now, it’s only 2011, you’ve got almost 2 years before the election.

    Anyway, it’s irrelevant to the issue of whether he was born in Hawaii, whether the State of Hawaii said he was, whether Boehner believed it, or whether he can tamp down his 12 Representatives.

  33. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 4:53 pm #

    Why “tamp” them down? Let them speak. History will either prove them prescient or prove them fools, but either way, let them speak.

  34. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    lester: OK.Try this.I’m not a birther. Like Chris Matthews, I would like to see a release of all the relevant information

    Relevant to Article II eligibility is place of birth and date which is on the official, certified copy which is derived from the HDOH records.

    Nothing else is relevant unless you’ve got a different copy of the Constitution than the rest of us.

    Are you asking for information that has never been requested of any other presidential candidate?

    If so, why?

  35. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    My copy is well read, I assure you.

  36. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    The question, of course, is what does that COLB really represent? I’ve heard so called “experts” on both sides of the issue.

  37. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    Used to work in the legal field and whenever there was a court case (construction defect litigation), it was always battle of the experts. Each side had their own. Both sides were always convincing. Got it?

  38. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    lester: The question, of course, is what does that COLB really represent?I’ve heard so called “experts” on both sides of the issue.

    Why is that a question? Do you allege the HDOH committed fraud? Do you have credible evidence that the state of Hawaii lied?

    Are you asking for information that has never been requested of any other presidential candidate?

    If so, why?

  39. avatar
    Greg January 7, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    lester: My copy is well read, I assure you.

    You can get a steel copy of the Bill of Rights to carry in your billfold. The fourth amendment is highlighted in red text.

  40. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    lester: My copy is well read, I assure you.

    You dodged my question.

  41. avatar
    BatGuano January 7, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    Freddy N.: ….untroubled by Wright’s lunacy.

    i don’t agree with the reverend but……

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment

    …… it’s not difficult to see how he came to his conclusion.

  42. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 5:04 pm #

    Listen, guys. The point is the COLB was issued in a loosey goosey fashion for a number of years in Hawaii (for a number of reasons) and that is just so much history.

  43. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    Nice chatting with you all. Have a good weekend!

  44. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    lester: Used to work in the legal field and whenever there was a court case (construction defect litigation), it was always battle of the experts.Each side had their own.Both sides were always convincing.Got it?

    That’s a steaming load of crap.

    Where’s your credible evidence that the certified COLB is invalid and not based on HDOH records?

    What’s your credibility level and relevant authority over the former Director of Health and the Governor of Hawaii?

    Got it?

  45. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    lester: Listen, guys.The point is the COLB was issued in a loosey goosey fashion for a number of years in Hawaii (for a number of reasons) and that is just so much history.

    That’s another load of crap with zero evidence. And I expected you to run away scared since you have nothing but b.s.

    Idiot birthers.

  46. avatar
    Scientist January 7, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    lester: The point is the COLB was issued in a loosey goosey fashion for a number of years in Hawaii (for a number of reasons) and that is just so much history.

    Obama’s was issued in 2007. Be specific here.

  47. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    Oh, the COLB is valid. Never said it was. It’s a legal document. It’s just that they were often issued to everyone and his monkey during the 50’s and early 60’s. Sorry you don’t get the point.

  48. avatar
    BatGuano January 7, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    lester: The question, of course, is what does that COLB really represent?I’ve heard so called “experts” on both sides of the issue.

    then go to the state department’s website. the supreme authority/expert in this matter. they list all the requirements for a proof of birth document. the COLB meets that standard.

  49. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    Tootles.

  50. avatar
    BatGuano January 7, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    lester: Oh, the COLB is valid.Never said it was.It’s a legal document.It’s just that they were often issued to everyone and his monkey during the 50′s and early 60′s.Sorry you don’t get the point.

    any evidence of all these 40+ year old monkeys ???

  51. avatar
    Scientist January 7, 2011 at 5:11 pm #

    lester: It’s just that they were often issued to everyone and his monkey during the 50′s and early 60′s. Sorry you don’t get the point.

    1. Obama’s COLB was issued in 2007.
    2. Show me any fraudulent COLB iissued by hawaii anytime since statehood. Go on. If you’re quick you can still make cocktail hour.

  52. avatar
    lester January 7, 2011 at 5:12 pm #

    You guys just don’t get it. Once issued they are not fraudulent. Once issued…

  53. avatar
    Greg January 7, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

    lester: Oh, the COLB is valid.Never said it was.It’s a legal document.It’s just that they were often issued to everyone and his monkey during the 50′s and early 60′s.Sorry you don’t get the point.

    This nugget, of information, and $2.50, will get you a large coffee some places. But, that’s only if the information is true. If it’s false, and I haven’t seen any evidence that it’s true, they might increase the price of the coffee. So, I wouldn’t mention it when you buy the coffee.

    If the COLB is valid, it is prima facie proof that Obama was born in Hawaii. Without REAL evidence that Obama was born elsewhere, the court is left with that prima facie case.

    And, without REAL evidence that THIS COLB was forged, you won’t be able to overcome the presumption, written into Hawaiian law, that the COLB is prima facie proof of the facts contained therein. (Oh, and what’s that evidence going to look like? Proof of birth somewhere else!)

    With or without the Long Form, birthers are in the same boat, they lack REAL evidence of a birth any place but Hawaii.

  54. avatar
    Dave January 7, 2011 at 5:25 pm #

    lester: Oh, the COLB is valid.Never said it was.It’s a legal document.It’s just that they were often issued to everyone and his monkey during the 50′s and early 60′s.Sorry you don’t get the point.

    Are you making any effort to make sense? You agree the COLB is not fraudulent, and yet you still find it somehow unsatisfactory, in some sense you can’t quite articulate.

  55. avatar
    BatGuano January 7, 2011 at 5:31 pm #

    lester: Listen, guys.The point is the COLB was issued in a loosey goosey fashion for a number of years in Hawaii (for a number of reasons) and that is just so much history.

    still waiting on ANY documentation of these hawaiian “lost years”.

    has any other state had loosey-goosey years? if so which and when.

  56. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 7, 2011 at 6:10 pm #

    Freddy N.: Obama listened to his spiritual mentor Jeremiah Wright preach the CIA invented AIDS and he never objected.

    I personally subscribe to drug company polio vaccine development in Africa as the cause of AIDS.

  57. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 6:16 pm #

    lester: You guys just don’t get it.Once issued they are not fraudulent. Once issued…

    You’ve completely stopped making sense. Tell us more, and especially to the attorneys who visit here, about your extensive qualifications and knowledge of the law.

  58. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    BatGuano:
    still waiting on ANY documentation of these hawaiian “lost years”.
    has any other state had loosey-goosey years? if so which and when.

    Is that a delicacy for a luau?

    Maybe it was the entertainment.

  59. avatar
    James M January 7, 2011 at 6:34 pm #

    lester: It’s just that they were often issued to everyone and his monkey during the 50′s and early 60′s.

    Then you should be able to point to a case where this happened. In fact, you should have volumes of evidence. The original vector for this myth is the case of Sun Yat Sen, who did receive a Hawaiian Certificate in 1904, for political reasons, that falsely gave his place of birth as Kula Maui.

    That one fact morphed into the notion that the State of Hawaii provided this service to anyone who wanted it. There’s another kernel of truth to the idea that one could receive a Hawaii birth certificate even if born elsewhere, but those certificates indicate the actual place of birth, and do not falsify it as Hawaii.

  60. avatar
    BatGuano January 7, 2011 at 6:35 pm #

    Majority Will: Maybe it was the entertainment

    i’ve designed a few posters for the current burlesque stripper revival and altho i have yet to see it…….. i’m sure somewhere in this world is a dancer named Lucy Gousee.

  61. avatar
    Scientist January 7, 2011 at 6:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I personally subscribe to drug company polio vaccine development in Africa as the cause of AIDS

    Doc, I sincerely hope you are kidding. The great debunker of conspiracy theories surely does not believe such a dumb story as that. Genetic analysis of human HIV and SIV from chimps and gorillas, suggest that the virus jumped to humans between 1915 and 1941, well before any work on the polio vaccine. The most likely route was the consumption of “bush meat”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_AIDS

    Believing nonsense about diseases that kill millions is a far more serious matter than believing nonsense about where a President is born, which, in the end, is of no consequence.

  62. avatar
    Majority Will January 7, 2011 at 6:39 pm #

    BatGuano:
    i’ve designed a few posters for the current burlesque stripper revival and altho i have yet to see it…….. i’m sure somewhere in this world is a dancer named Lucy Gousee.

    NICE ! !

  63. avatar
    BatGuano January 7, 2011 at 6:46 pm #

    James M: There’s another kernel of truth to the idea that one could receive a Hawaii birth certificate even if born elsewhere, but those certificates indicate the actual place of birth, and do not falsify it as Hawaii.

    ive been curious, do other states offer this service?

  64. avatar
    kimba January 7, 2011 at 6:46 pm #

    lester: OK. Try this. I’m not a birther. Like Chris Matthews, I would like to see a release of all the relevant information

    We know the relevant information. He was born in Hawaii before Jan 20, 1973 and has lived in the US continuously since before Jan 20, 1994. Nothing else is relevant.

  65. avatar
    obsolete January 7, 2011 at 7:26 pm #

    I remember reading (and hearing it discussed on TV) during the 2008 election cycle, the claim that McCain was personally against attacking Obama over Rev. Wright because Rev. Wright operated on John McCain’s father in the 1960’s.
    Does anyone have any reliable info on this?

    I do find it distressing that birthers continually attack military veterans with distinguished careers such as Rev. Wright.

  66. avatar
    BatGuano January 7, 2011 at 7:33 pm #

    kimba: ……and has lived in the US continuously……

    the constitution doesn’t say anything about continuously….. or that it need be the previous 14 ( ike wouldn’t have passed muster ). it just says 14.

    this is one point that speaks volumes to me about the birthers. if it truly was about defending the constitution and getting the one true definition of NBC then why are they not fighting for a definition on the other vague aspect of eligibility?

    ( altho mabey they’ll find a swiss philosopher that says 14years always mean the first 14 ).

  67. avatar
    misha January 7, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    Freddy N.: Wright has made numerous lunatic statements.

    Wright is simply angry about the way the descendants of America’s only unwilling immigrants have been treated. Those descendants did not have civil rights until 1964, 100 years after emancipation.

    I was raised surrounded by survivors, and I know the anger below the surface.

  68. avatar
    Stanislaw January 7, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    Freddy N.: Obama listened to his spiritual mentor Jeremiah Wright preach the CIA invented AIDS and he never objected.

    How does this have anything to do with John Boehner? Try to stay on topic, son…that way you give the rest of us less ammunition to use against you..

  69. avatar
    Stanislaw January 7, 2011 at 8:07 pm #

    lester: Oh, the COLB is valid.Never said it was.It’s a legal document.It’s just that they were often issued to everyone and his monkey during the 50′s and early 60′s.Sorry you don’t get the point.

    Got any proof to back up that statement? Go ahead. I’ll wait.

  70. avatar
    Keith January 7, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    Freddy N.: Obama listened to his spiritual mentor Jeremiah Wright preach the CIA invented AIDS and he never objected.

    Just so we are clear on your thinking about this.

    You are insisting that Obama should have been in Wright’s ear right when he first mentioned CIA and AIDs in the same sentence, and you know he wasn’t because you were there the whole time, for every conversation they ever had.

    It is OK, no not “OK”, but imperative, that Obama should insist on correcting his pastor, but it is not OK, no not “not OK”, but forbidden, for people to correct the misbegotten ideas of the unthinking birther.

    I just want to be clear on exactly where your self-delusional hypocrisy filters are failing you, and I don’t want you to get into trouble years from now and blame it on me because I didn’t point it out to you today.

  71. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 7, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    BatGuano:
    the constitution doesn’t say anything about continuously….. or that it need be the previous 14 ( ike wouldn’t have passed muster ). it just says 14.this is one point that speaks volumes to me about the birthers. if it truly was about defending the constitution and getting the one true definition of NBC then why are they not fighting for a definition on the other vague aspect of eligibility?
    ( altho mabey they’ll find a swiss philosopher that says 14years always mean the first 14 ).

    If it was continuous Eisenhower would have been disqualified

  72. avatar
    sfjeff January 7, 2011 at 8:45 pm #

    Well I heard that Eisenhower got his Birth certificate 50 years after his home birth based simply upon the testimony of his brother- who was 3 years old when he was born.

    Apparently this ‘losey goosey’ birth certificate which was not even shown to the American public was considered completely sufficient evidence for Ike.

    But of course, different rules apply to Obama.

  73. avatar
    ellid January 7, 2011 at 8:52 pm #

    lester: Oh, the COLB is valid.Never said it was.It’s a legal document.It’s just that they were often issued to everyone and his monkey during the 50′s and early 60′s.Sorry you don’t get the point.

    We certainly do: you’re a birther who refuses to believe that the President released his birth certificate over two years ago. Very simple.

  74. avatar
    ellid January 7, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    Freddy N.: “He was part of the medical team that treated President Johnson in the 1960s”The claim was made he was a “war hero”. What war was he in, and what did he do that was heroic?Lakin has a Bronze Star.It’s obvious Obama was untroubled by Wright’s lunacy. He maintained his close relationship with Wright (unlike some), and named a book after the title of one of Wright’s sermons.

    So Lakin got a Bronze Star. So what? When it came to going to Afghanistan, he refused on specious grounds and is now serving his time.

  75. avatar
    misha January 7, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): If it was continuous Eisenhower would have been disqualified

    Hoover, too.

  76. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 7, 2011 at 9:32 pm #

    lester: OK.Try this.I’m not a birther. Like Chris Matthews, I would like to see a release of all the relevant information

    Are you also certain, like Chris Matthews, that Obama was born in Hawaii?

  77. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 7, 2011 at 9:41 pm #

    lester: … It’s just that [COLB’s] were often issued to everyone and his monkey during the 50′s and early 60′s.

    What possibly put such a peculiar idea in your head? Or you claiming that all native Hawaiians and those of Japanese ethnicity are monkeys?

    I’ve been at this Obama Conspiracy business for over 2 years now, and there are over 70,000 comments on this blog. I have NEVER seen anyone provide any evidence that there was ever any period of lax regulation of birth registrations in Hawaii nor any unusual incidence of vital statistics fraud there. In fact, in the whole history of Hawaii, there is only one case of fraud that I have ever seen documented and that was from 1904.

  78. avatar
    NdH January 7, 2011 at 9:53 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Are you also certain, like Chris Matthews, that Obama was born in Hawaii?

    Did Mathews say he was “certain”? I hope not. Only a fool would say something like that.

  79. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 8, 2011 at 12:44 am #

    NdH: Did Mathews say he was “certain”? I hope not. Only a fool would say something like that.

    Interesting. Matthews is either a hero or a fool depending on whether he agrees with you. That’s how birthers think.

  80. avatar
    Hawaiiborn January 8, 2011 at 1:08 am #

    lester: Listen, guys.The point is the COLB was issued in a loosey goosey fashion for a number of years in Hawaii (for a number of reasons) and that is just so much history.

    oh really now?

    I have a COLB from Hawaii from
    2000
    2006
    2010

    They are all the same, contain the same information and do not provide any more than the one that Obama has posted.

    However, 2010 version has changed from Certification of Live Birth to Certificate of Live Birth and noted change is found at the bottom of the form. Nothing else has changed in the 10 years and the 3 times I’ve asked for a copy of my COLB from the state. This COLB has gotten me:
    My Passport
    My Drivers License
    My State Id
    Used as verification of citizenship in the US for my JOBs that i’ve had
    Used as verification of citizenship and being a US CITizen for the IRS.

    You’re nothing but a liar, have no idea what you are talking about, and the last thing you want to do is say this stuff when a person FROM HAWAII visits this blog often and knows what she is talking about.

  81. avatar
    Hawaiiborn January 8, 2011 at 1:09 am #

    lester: Oh, the COLB is valid.Never said it was.It’s a legal document.It’s just that they were often issued to everyone and his monkey during the 50′s and early 60′s.Sorry you don’t get the point.

    absolutely false and you are again lying.

  82. avatar
    dch January 8, 2011 at 8:26 am #

    “Oh, the COLB is valid. Never said it was. It’s a legal document. It’s just that they were often issued to everyone and his monkey during the 50′s and early 60′s. Sorry you don’t get the point.”

    Your assertion can be dismissed as easily as you have made given you have NO evidence.

    So tell us: Why did your side LOSE eighty-plus cases in a row?

    Why have THIRTY appeals courts upheld the prior dismissals?

    Why is that? Why can’t any birther ever provide evidence?

    LOL

  83. avatar
    Scientist January 8, 2011 at 8:37 am #

    NdH: Did Mathews say he was “certain”? I hope not. Only a fool would say something like that

    Werner Heisenberg showed that we cannot be certain of both the location and the momentum of a particle. Such uncertainty is built into the fabric of the Universe. So, in that sense, we can never be certain. Karl Popper said that we do not establish truth, but rather falsify opposing explanations. The law accepts that nothing is proven beyond all doubt; rather, the highest standard is “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

    Barack Obama’s birthplace is as well established as your own. Neither are “certain” in the philosophical sense. But statements regarding his birthplace (or yours) are falsifiable. So, have at it. All you need do is find solid facts that are not consistent with his being born in Hawaii. I suggest you leave for Kenya ASAP and plan a long stay to thoroughly investigate. If you are unwilling to do the hard work involved in attemptiing to falsify the most reasonable hypothesis put forward so far-that Barack Obama was born where the documents say he was and where his parents lived, as almost all babies are-then you are nothing but a poseur whose “opinions” are of no value.

  84. avatar
    Sean January 8, 2011 at 10:07 am #

    Freddy N.: In 2008 Obama said that, well after the fact, to a reporter. While Wright was preaching racist conspiracy Obama refused to step up and challenge him.

    Didn’t he sever all ties with Wright during the election?

  85. avatar
    BatGuano January 8, 2011 at 10:11 am #

    Freddy N.: It’s obvious Obama was untroubled by Wright’s lunacy. He maintained his close relationship with Wright…

    i was thinking about this quote again. you believe that wright is a lunatic because he believes the CIA created AIDS. while i don’t share his opinion the government does not have a good track record in this arena:

    * tuskegee syphilis experiment: from 1932-1972 (!!!) the government intentionally misdiagnose 399 black patients with syphilis to track the progression of the disease.

    * guatemala syphilis experiment: from 1946-1948 the government infects guatemalan soldiers, prisoners and mental patients with syphilis and other VD without their knowledge or consent to study possible treatments.

    * mk-utra: the CIA inject large doses of LSD to people without their knowledge or consent to study the effects.

    so, in your opinion, the leap in logic that rev wright took to associate the CIA with AIDS is lunacy but belief in the birther conspiracy is sane and rational ?

  86. avatar
    BatGuano January 8, 2011 at 10:13 am #

    as for maintaining a relationship with wright……

    i do not agree with my friends on everything. do you?

  87. avatar
    Northland10 January 8, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    BatGuano:
    ive been curious, do other states offer this service?

    (Note: due to wishing to protect the privacy of a non-involved person who posted their adopted daughter’s BC, I am redacting the state name and not linking to the image).

    A few months back, I was poking around various online images of Birth Certificates and came across one from a state, other than Hawaii. It was posted by a proud adoptive family who had just received the new Birth Certificate for their recently adopted Chinese daughter. The certificate contained only the basic information as you would see on the Hawaiian COLB. The country of birth stated China and at the top, in big letters, it said, Amended.

    It would only stand to reason that, if this were the case for the President, his COLB would say the same thing.

  88. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 8, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    If it was continuous Eisenhower would have been disqualified

    If you’re talking about time that Eisenhower spent in the Military, overseas, fighting WWII, then in U.S. law, that usually counts as Residency. I’m not sure about Hoover, but Eisenhower was in the Military during the time. U.S. law in other places provide that residency includes time spent in the military, even if overseas. Just as time spent as a U.S. Diplomat would count as well.

  89. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 8, 2011 at 4:10 pm #

    Northland10: It was posted by a proud adoptive family who had just received the new Birth Certificate for their recently adopted Chinese daughter. The certificate contained only the basic information as you would see on the Hawaiian COLB. The country of birth stated China and at the top, in big letters, it said, Amended.

    I would presume that it did not say “Certificate/Certification of Live Birth” at the top.

  90. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 8, 2011 at 5:36 pm #

    dunstvangeet:
    If you’re talking about time that Eisenhower spent in the Military, overseas, fighting WWII, then in U.S. law, that usually counts as Residency.I’m not sure about Hoover, but Eisenhower was in the Military during the time.U.S. law in other places provide that residency includes time spent in the military, even if overseas.Just as time spent as a U.S. Diplomat would count as well.

    I’m not so sure about that according to the US State Department US military facilities do not count as being US Soil

    http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

  91. avatar
    charo January 8, 2011 at 6:03 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    What possibly put such a peculiar idea in your head? Or you claiming that all native Hawaiians and those of Japanese ethnicity are monkeys?I’ve been at this Obama Conspiracy business for over 2 years now, and there are over 70,000 comments on this blog. I have NEVER seen anyone provide any evidence that there was ever any period of lax regulation of birth registrations in Hawaii nor any unusual incidence of vital statistics fraud there. In fact, in the whole history of Hawaii, there is only one case of fraud that I have ever seen documented and that was from 1904.

    Not specific to Hawaii, but here is an official report from the Office of Inspector Geberal on birth certificate fraud (probably due to increased identity theft) that states many interesting things:

    A few snippets:

    CONCLUSIONS

    Birth Certificates Alone do not Provide Conclusive or Reliable Proof of Identity

    Fundamental, Irreconcilable Conflicts Surround Birth Certificate Purposes
    and Uses

    A certified copy of a birth certificate is proof only that a birth occurred and was recorded.
    For that purpose, it may be desirable that the public be allowed easy access to them.
    However, the agencies and organizations that use birth certificates as proof of
    identification for employment purposes, to obtain benefits or other documents
    (e.g., driver’s licenses, Social Security cards, and passports), and to assist them in
    determining eligibility for public assistance and other benefits, may have concerns with
    how easily certified copies of birth certificates can be obtained. These conflicting
    perspectives are at the very heart of the birth certificate controversy.

    State Practices Create Opportunities for Fraud

    Delayed, Amended, and Midwife Birth Registrations Provide Opportunities for
    Fraud. State and local vital records staff say birth certificates issued based on delayed
    and amended birth registrations are more likely to be fraudulent. They also say they
    consider births registered by midwives, and other home births, to have a high potential for
    fraud.

    Delayed birth registration occurs when a certificate of birth is not filed within the time
    specified by State law. Delayed birth registrations are sometimes the result of unattended
    home births, midwife births, and other out-of-hospital births. The Model State and Vital
    Statistics Act and Regulations require delayed certificates to be issued for births not filed
    within 1 year. Based on our survey responses, the State median time frame for filing
    delayed registrations is 1 year, but varies from State-to-State and ranges between 10 days
    and 4 years.

    Federal and State staff alerted us to problems with delayed birth registration. These
    problems arise from the lack of evidence required to file a delayed birth in some States.
    Not all States include information with birth certificates about the documentary evidence
    they accept as proof a birth occurred, and upon which delayed registrations are allowed,
    with delayed birth certificates. Likewise, the documentary evidence required to register
    delayed births is inconsistent among States. Forty-seven States accept affidavits of

    Birth Certificate Fraud

    14

    personal knowledge as proof a birth occurred, and 14 include no abstract of documentary
    evidence when issuing delayed birth certificates.

    Amended birth registration occurs when changes are made to the vital information
    contained on the original birth registration. While we did not specifically address amended
    birth registrations in our survey, they were identified as problematic in our discussions
    with Federal agency and State vital records office staff. The overall concern surrounding
    amended registrations is similar to that of delayed registrations in that some States do not
    require substantial evidence to amend birth registrations and that birth certificates issued
    based on amended registrations are not clearly marked as having been “amended.” One
    State registrar also noted a growing problem in which adults are adopted by other adults,
    usually for inheritance purposes. In these cases, the adopted person undergoes a legal
    change of name and their birth record is altered, but the fact that the adoption took place
    is never recorded in any way on the original or amended birth certificate.

    More at http://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-99-00570.pdf

    P.S. Prayers for all of the victims of today’s shootings perpetrated by a person from neither right nor left, but from the small segment of the society that is truly deranged.

  92. avatar
    Northland10 January 8, 2011 at 6:09 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I would presume that it did not say “Certificate/Certification of Live Birth” at the top.

    I searched back for it again and their is a minor correction. Instead of Amended at the top it says “Delayed Foreign Birth.” It also says that it is a Certificate of Live Birth.

    I apologize for the omissions.

  93. avatar
    charo January 8, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    Inspector General (I thought I saw something about Gerbils and realized it was my own poor typing…)

  94. avatar
    BatGuano January 8, 2011 at 7:47 pm #

    charo: Birth Certificates Alone do not Provide Conclusive or Reliable Proof of Identity

    …that’s not really news. think about it. if i stood in a room with 25 others roughly the same age and ethnicity as myself would you be able match us to our birth certificates?

    the only way i could think of to be conclusive would to have fingerprints and retinal scans done at birth then immediately have i microchip implanted in the back of your neck. then again, that still wouldn’t be 100% conclusive. ask philip k dick.

  95. avatar
    charo January 8, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    BatGuano:
    …that’s not really news. think about it. if i stood in a room with 25 others roughly the same age and ethnicity as myself would you be able match us to our birth certificates?
    the only way i could think of to be conclusive would to have fingerprints and retinal scans done at birth then immediately have i microchip implanted in the back of your neck. then again, that still wouldn’t be 100% conclusive. ask philip k dick.

    That is from the report of the Inspector General. Funny you should say that anyways because also from the report:

    (to improve integrity) introducing the use of biometrics (e.g., fingerprints or other individual physical identifier) into the birth certificate process, thus insuring positive links between birth certificates and the people presenting them as proof of identity;

    Also from the report:

    Misconceptions Exist Regarding the Security and Integrity of Birth Certificates
    During the course of our study, we found that many misconceptions exist surrounding the security and integrity of birth certificates. We also found that a lack of education exists regarding the importance of securing vital records information. Misconceptions include the following:

    – a birth certificate insures the identity and citizenship of the person holding it;
    – birth certificates can be obtained only by the individual listed on the certificate or appropriate family members;
    – if a birth certificate contains a crimped seal, it is “real”;

  96. avatar
    charo January 8, 2011 at 8:12 pm #

    The above was all italicized- My comment begins at:

    That is from the report of the Inspector General. Funny you should say that anyways because also from the report:

    (to improve integrity) introducing the use of biometrics (e.g., fingerprints or other individual physical identifier) into the birth certificate process, thus insuring positive links between birth certificates and the people presenting them as proof of identity;

    Also from the report:

    Misconceptions Exist Regarding the Security and Integrity of Birth Certificates
    During the course of our study, we found that many misconceptions exist surrounding the security and integrity of birth certificates. We also found that a lack of education exists regarding the importance of securing vital records information. Misconceptions include the following:

    – a birth certificate insures the identity and citizenship of the person holding it;
    – birth certificates can be obtained only by the individual listed on the certificate or appropriate family members;
    – if a birth certificate contains a crimped seal, it is “real”;

  97. avatar
    BatGuano January 8, 2011 at 9:03 pm #

    charo: Also from the report:

    and all those things will NEVER make it 100% conclusive. i hate to throw sci-fi in as evidence of the future ( altho that jules verne chap was on to something ) but look at the movies “gattaca” and “minority report”. whatever the human mind can conceive to keep things safe….. there is an equal mind that can bypass it for an adequate forgery ( given that there is proper motivation/profit ).

  98. avatar
    Keith January 8, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    charo: Misconceptions include the following:

    – a birth certificate insures the identity and citizenship of the person holding it;

    That is nothing new, surprising, or useful to the discussion.

    The birth certificate is NOT an identity document. Nor is a Social Security card. People incorrectly using or accepting a Birth Certificate as identity documentation is the point where fraud can occur. The fraud is NOT a fake certificate obtained at birth, the fraud is using someone else’s certificate as your own to establish identity, i.e. identity theft.

    That certificate may have been stolen from its real owner, or State officials may have been duped into issuing it to the thief or whatever. In any case, it isn’t because the certificate was fraudulently recorded at birth, it is because once the certificate is issued it is used fraudulently and incorrectly accepted as an identity document.

    Those people from a while back who screamed that their BC wasn’t good enough to get a passport were partly right. Since it isn’t an identity document, by itself it isn’t good enough to get a passport. It establishes where and when a person was born, but it doesn’t establish that the person holding it is the one whose birth is reported on that document.

    As you quoted from the report in an earlier post:

    charo: A certified copy of a birth certificate is proof only that a birth occurred and was recorded.

    That is all that is claimed for Obama’s birth certificate: proof that the birth took place at a particular place and time.

  99. avatar
    charo January 8, 2011 at 9:22 pm #

    Keith:
    That is nothing new, surprising, or useful to the discussion.The birth certificate is NOT an identity document. Nor is a Social Security card. People incorrectly using or accepting a Birth Certificate as identity documentation is the point where fraud can occur. The fraud is NOT a fake certificate obtained at birth, the fraud is using someone else’s certificate as your own to establish identity, i.e. identity theft.
    That certificate may have been stolen from its real owner, or State officials may have been duped into issuing it to the thief or whatever. In any case, it isn’t because the certificate was fraudulently recorded at birth, it is because once the certificate is issued it is used fraudulently and incorrectly accepted as an identity document.Those people from a while back who screamed that their BC wasn’t good enough to get a passport were partly right. Since it isn’t an identity document, by itself it isn’t good enough to get a passport. It establishes where and when a person was born, but it doesn’t establish that the person holding it is the one whose birth is reported on that document.
    As you quoted from the report in an earlier post:
    That is all that is claimed for Obama’s birth certificate: proof that the birth took place at a particular place and time.

    You didn’t read the report.

  100. avatar
    charo January 8, 2011 at 9:24 pm #

    BatGuano:
    and all those things will NEVER make it 100% conclusive. i hate to throw sci-fi in as evidence of the future ( altho that jules verne chap was on to something ) but look at the movies “gattaca” and “minority report”. whatever the human mind can conceiveto keep things safe….. there is an equal mind that can bypass it for an adequate forgery ( given that there is proper motivation/profit ).

    Even DNA is not 100%, but it’s pretty reliable.

  101. avatar
    Scientist January 8, 2011 at 10:02 pm #

    charo: You didn’t read the report

    What is your point exactly? That it is possible for a biirth certificate to be fraudulent? OK. Counterfeit bills exist, but that doesn’t mean the $20 in my pocket isn’t legit. The vast majority are. And, if a Secret Service agent examines it and says it’s fine, then you can take it to the bank.

    So when someone presents a birth certificate, 99.99% of the time. it’s kosher. When a state official vouches for it, you can say it’s 100%. However, the report rightly points out that a birth certificate by itself doesn’t establish identiity. So are we going to now hear that the birth certificate issued to Barack Obama is perfectly fine, but that the fellow in the White House isn’t Barack Obama? Cue the theme from the Twilight Zone..

  102. avatar
    charo January 8, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    Go all the way back to this: charo January 8, 2011 at 6:03 pm. The report was in response to Doc’s comment about only one example of fraud in Hawaii.

    It is now past 10:00 and it is bedtime for my children, actually past. Frankly, I don’t care if you call it running away or not. I’ll just say this here for my own convenience: Rwanda cannot be compared to our country. As for President Obama, I thought it was your opinion to allow for dirty politics. That is what it is. And always will be.

  103. avatar
    Majority Will January 8, 2011 at 10:33 pm #

    charo: Go all the way back to this:charo January 8, 2011 at 6:03 pm.The report was in response to Doc’s comment about only one example of fraud in Hawaii.It is now past 10:00 and it is bedtime for my children, actually past.Frankly, I don’t care if you call it running away or not. I’ll just say this here for my own convenience:Rwanda cannot be compared to our country.As for President Obama, I thought it was your opinion to allow for dirty politics.That is what it is.And always will be.

    Are you on the wrong thread again? Should we wait for you to answer yourself first?

  104. avatar
    Scientist January 8, 2011 at 10:35 pm #

    charo: The report was in response to Doc’s comment about only one example of fraud in Hawaii.

    And the report cites no examples of actual frauds in Hawaii, nor any evidence that Hawaii’s procedures are worse than other states. So it doesn’t really address the issue.Doc raised.

    charo: As for President Obama, I thought it was your opinion to allow for dirty politics.

    Can you show me where I said that?

    The rhetoric regarding Obama is orders of magnitude beyond that used against previous Presidents. I can recall those opposed to Bush I or II or Reagan or Clinton saying that their POLICIES were bad for the country. I can’t recall anyone saying that they were DELIBERATELY attempting to destroy the country, which I have heard repeatedly from Obama opponents.

    I won’t accuse you of running away. Rather, I will consider that you graciously gave me the last word.

  105. avatar
    Majority Will January 8, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    Scientist:
    And the report cites no examples of actual frauds in Hawaii, nor any evidence that Hawaii’s procedures are worse than other states.So it doesn’t really address the issue.Doc raised.
    Can you show me where I said that?The rhetoric regarding Obama is orders of magnitude beyond that used against previous Presidents.I can recall those opposed to Bush I or II or Reagan or Clinton saying that their POLICIES were bad for the country. I can’t recall anyone saying that they were DELIBERATELY attempting to destroy the country, which I have heard repeatedly from Obama opponents.I won’t accuse you of running away.Rather, I will consider that you graciously gave me the last word.

    I thought she was referring to your quote on The Occasional Open Thread 2011 edition:

    “I assume you don’t teach bad values to your children on the theory that they might turn out OK despite that.

    You might find it interesting to read Philip Gourevitch’s books on the Rwandan genocide. They were fanned by ‘Hate Radio’ stations that broadcast anti-Tutsi propaganda 24/7 for months before the killings started.”

    Just trying to keep up.

  106. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 8, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    I’m not so sure about that according to the US State Department US military facilities do not count as being US Soilhttp://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

    For purposes of birth, it’s not. However, take a look at 8 U.S.C. 1401(g). It clearly allows military service, and service for the U.S. government, even when overseas, to count towards the residency requirement to pass on citizenship. I have absolutely no problems with counting any military service to count towards residency requirements.

    Yes, Embassies and Military Bases are not U.S. Soil for purposes of passing on birth. However, I would have no problem with counting them towards the residency requirements, as they do in other portions of U.S. Law.

  107. avatar
    charo January 9, 2011 at 12:22 am #

    Majority Will:
    Are you on the wrong thread again? Should we wait for you to answer yourself first?

    I said,

    I’ll just say this here for my own convenience- I figured scientist would know to what I was referring from the other thread.

  108. avatar
    charo January 9, 2011 at 12:30 am #

    Scientist: I can recall those opposed to Bush I or II or Reagan or Clinton saying that their POLICIES were bad for the country. I can’t recall anyone saying that they were DELIBERATELY attempting to destroy the country,

    I didn’t care about politics during the Reagan years. I recall a different world than you during the Bush years.

  109. avatar
    charo January 9, 2011 at 12:45 am #

    charo: As for President Obama, I thought it was your opinion to allow for dirty politics.

    Can you show me where I said that?

    “Hawaii governor seeks to release Obama birth documentation” Thread

    Scientist December 28, 2010 at 5:11 pm #

    “Credible Presidential candidates have very significant resources. They have teams whose sole purpose is to dig up all kinds of dirt on their opponents.”

    I took that to mean innuendo etc., beyond the eligibility factor. I think eligibility is the most neutral of all “dirt” rather than whether a candidate is a secret Muslim or not.

    But I will let you keep your last word.

    Goodnight.

  110. avatar
    charo January 9, 2011 at 12:48 am #

    charo: charo: As for President Obama, I thought it was your opinion to allow for dirty politics.

    Can you show me where I said that?“ (scientist)

    Here:

    Hawaii governor seeks to release Obama birth documentation” Thread

    Scientist December 28, 2010 at 5:11 pm #…“Credible Presidential candidates have very significant resources. They have teams whose sole purpose is to dig up all kinds of dirt on their opponents.”

    ***
    I took that to mean innuendo etc., beyond the eligibility factor.I think eligibility is the most neutral of all “dirt” rather than whether a candidate is a secret Muslim or not.
    But I will let you keep your last word.Goodnight.

  111. avatar
    Scientist January 9, 2011 at 7:47 am #

    charo: “Credible Presidential candidates have very significant resources. They have teams whose sole purpose is to dig up all kinds of dirt on their opponents.”

    i don’t know what you mean by “allowed for”. Last I checked it wasn’t up to me to “allow” or “disallow” anything; I noted what is. It’s not illegal to investigate a political opponent, provided you don’t break into their offices or some such criminal acts. I would condemn any candidate who spread rumors about opponents without facts to back them up, nor do I really care about a candidate’s marital fidelity. But surely, a candidate who had facts to support a charge that his opponent did favors for campaign contributors would be justified in bringing that forward, no?

    So, if you want to apply this to eligibility, candidates are perfectly free to investigate if they believe an opponent is ineligible. If they find facts to support their case, by all means, bring them forward. If they don’t find any facts that show a candidate to be ineligible, then the matter is closed.

  112. avatar
    Sef January 9, 2011 at 9:12 am #

    Freddy N.: In 2008 he told a reporter he objected to his close personal friend preaching the CIA caused AIDS. He never objected while Wright was doing it. For years Obama was content to let his nut case spiritual mentor “do his own thing”.

    Do you jump up in the middle of a sermon and denounce the idiocy your preacher spouts?

  113. avatar
    BatGuano January 9, 2011 at 9:52 am #

    charo:
    Even DNA is not 100%, but it’s pretty reliable.

    yep 99.9%pure like dove soap. the major plot point of “gattaca” was the lengths the hero went to fake his DNA.

    good movie.

  114. avatar
    Sef January 9, 2011 at 10:02 am #

    BatGuano:
    yep 99.9%pure like dove soap.the major plot point of “gattaca” was the lengths the hero went to fake his DNA.good movie.

    Ivory soap is supposedly 99 and 44 / 100 % pure, but pure what?

  115. avatar
    misha January 9, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    Sef: Ivory soap is supposedly 99 and 44 / 100 % pure, but pure what?

    Pure BS.

  116. avatar
    misha January 9, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    Sef: Do you jump up in the middle of a sermon and denounce the idiocy your preacher spouts?

    Freddy N.: He never objected while Wright was doing it. For years Obama was content to let his nut case spiritual mentor “do his own thing”.

    When I was in Anchorage for the Iditarod, a minister in Palin’s church said to me, “Auschwitz was divine retribution, because you people have refused to accept god’s only son.”

    Palin has never refudiated it.

  117. avatar
    charo January 9, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    Good wishes coming your way for your trip, Doc. Hopefully, the blog won’t implode during your absence.

  118. avatar
    Keith January 9, 2011 at 4:13 pm #

    misha:
    Pure BS.

    As in Bar Soap?

  119. avatar
    Black Lion January 9, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    Lakin’s conviction has awakened sleeping giant in Obama’s eligibility
    Posted by Jack Minor January 9, 2011

    If the Obama administration hoped the court-martial of Greeley resident Lt. Col. Terry Lakin would put the eligibility issue to rest once and for all, their hopes appear to have been in vain. The eligibility issue looks as if it’s gaining traction with prominent liberals and Democrats now calling for the President to release his birth certificate.

    During the trial, Lakin was not allowed to present witnesses or documents related to the President’s eligibility to be Commander-in-Chief under article II of the Constitution. Following his conviction, Lakin was sentenced to six months in Ft. Leavenworth. The sentence has yet to be approved by the commanding general, MGen Horst, who has the ability to reduce or commute the sentence.

    In the days following the conviction, liberal commentator Chris Matthews, who has said for months that the President has released his birth certificate and that he has personally seen the document, has now done an about-face. Appearing with David Corn from Mother Jones and Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune, Matthews showed a copy of a long form and asked, “Why has the President not demanded they release the original documents”? He went on to say he was an “enemy of the birthers.”

    Incoming Democratic Hawaii Governor, Neil Abercrombie, who was listed as a member of Democratic Socialists of America in their literature, conducted multiple interviews saying it was his desire to be able to release more information regarding the President’s birth. He experienced anger at those who have expressed skepticism over the certification of live birth posted online which the state of Hawaii has never confirmed as authentic. He even said, “I was here when that baby was born.”

    Abercrombie told the Star Advertiser that he was talking with the state attorney general’s office and the director of the Health Department to see how he could release information about Obama’s birth.

    In an interview with Steve Malzberg on Dec. 30, Jeff Kuhner of the Washington Times said, “People around the White House, Democratic circles, and the liberal media – including top senior editors — all know there’s something there about Obama’s birth eligibility but are afraid to pursue the matter…the implications are that if this story turns out to be true, we fear it could be a civil war within America…”

    Supporters of Lt. Col. Lakin have set up a fund at http://www.terrylakinactionfund.com where people can make donations to help Lakin and his family. Another website, http://www.opinionsandarmpits.com, has begun selling t-shirts and mugs saying things such as “all he wanted was the truth, instead he got prison” with all profits going to support Lakin.

    Those wishing to write Terry can do so by sending a letter to:

    Terrance Lakin #89996

    830 Sabalu Road

    Fort Leavenworth, KS 66027

    When writing, do not include rank or title on the address. Lakin can only receive letters, greeting cards and post office money orders. Do not send any packages, food, magazines etc.

    According to his wife Pili, Lakin is in good spirits and doing well. In a letter from prison Lakin wrote, “The thing is for the work to carry-on so we never have this situation again.”

    http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=7814

  120. avatar
    GeorgetownJD January 9, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    Northland10:
    (Note:due to wishing to protect the privacy of a non-involved person who posted their adopted daughter’s BC, I am redacting the state name and not linking to the image).A few months back, I was poking around various online images of Birth Certificates and came across one from a state, other than Hawaii.It was posted by a proud adoptive family who had just received the new Birth Certificate for their recently adopted Chinese daughter.The certificate contained only the basic information as you would see on the Hawaiian COLB.The country of birth stated China and at the top, in big letters, it said, Amended.It would only stand to reason that, if this were the case for the President, his COLB would say the same thing.

    That is consistent with the practice in the District of Columbia. A dear friend of mine adopted a baby girl from China, and this child has a COLB issued by the District of Columbia that shows place of birth as China.

  121. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 9, 2011 at 7:36 pm #

    Black Lion: [Quoting the Greely Gazette] Lakin’s conviction has awakened sleeping giant in Obama’s eligibility

    About all I see is that the handful of bloggers and birther boosters are just using stronger language. The media, who had done a pretty good job covering the trial have gone silent (except for the Greeley Gazette, and WorldNetDaily).

    This story is basically over. The sleeping giant has rolled over and gone back to sleep.

  122. avatar
    Black Lion January 9, 2011 at 7:40 pm #

    And in the comments look how allegedly makes an appearance…

    Susan Daniels

    January 9, 2011 2:42 pm .
    I am a licensed private investigator in OH and have been for almost sixteen years. I discovered last year that Obama is using a phony CT social security number that was issued in ’77-’79 for the past twenty-five years. At the time he was at Punahou Academy on Oahu.

    Social security numbers are issued to a person at the place they are living at the time of application. He has never lived in CT, especially as a high school student.

    His half-sister, Maya, has a Hawaiian social security number and a COLB saying she was born in HI. Everyone knows she was born in Indonesia.

    And, yes, I can document it.

  123. avatar
    Black Lion January 9, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: About all I see is that the handful of bloggers and birther boosters are just using stronger language. The media, who had done a pretty good job covering the trial have gone silent (except for the Greeley Gazette, and WorldNetDaily).This story is basically over.

    Doc, I agree….Only the rags like WND and for some reason the Greely Gazette as well as crazy bloggers like Dr Kate and others still think there is some sort of story here…They have been so obsessed with this issue that they can’t imagine life without the Obama issue…

  124. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 9, 2011 at 8:14 pm #

    Black Lion: And in the comments look how allegedly makes an appearance…Susan DanielsJanuary 9, 2011 2:42 pm .
    I am a licensed private investigator in OH and have been for almost sixteen years. I discovered last year that Obama is using a phony CT social security number that was issued in ’77-’79 for the past twenty-five years. At the time he was at Punahou Academy on Oahu.
    Social security numbers are issued to a person at the place they are living at the time of application. He has never lived in CT, especially as a high school student.His half-sister, Maya, has a Hawaiian social security number and a COLB saying she was born in HI. Everyone knows she was born in Indonesia.And, yes, I can document it.

    I left the following comment on the Gazette in response:

    @Susan Daniels:

    You say:

    “His half-sister, Maya, has a … COLB saying she was born in HI. Everyone knows she was born in Indonesia.

    And, yes, I can document it.”

    I say you cannot document the existence of a Hawaiian COLB for Maya Soetoro-Ng. I say you are lying. Would you like to prove me wrong?

    Oh and how about some real evidence that the Connecticut Social Security number belonging to Barack Obama is fraudulent. All it takes is a typo switching “0” for “9” to turn a Hawaiian zip code into a Connecticut zip code.

    I get so damned tired of birthers saying “I have evidence”, and “there is proof” but are unable to produce this evidence or proof. If they had proof, they would produce it instead of claiming that they have it.

    Terry Lakin wouldn’t be in the fix he is in now if people (including his attorney Paul Jensen) hadn’t lied to him. (Jensen waved this Hawaiian law on the CNN Anderson Cooper 360 program claiming that anyone can get a Hawaiian birth certificate, a law that hadn’t been passed until 21 years after Barack Obama’s birth was registered in Hawaii.)

  125. avatar
    Black Lion January 9, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    Doc, I agree with you 100%…The birthers always claim that they have some sort of evidence but can never support their ridiculous claims…Look at the nonsense from ORYR….

    And this, Obama’s illegal behavior unravelling:

    New analysis of Democrat Party’s official 2008 Certification of Nomination for Obama reveals that reasons for his sudden trip to Hawaii in October, 2008 was to visit more than just his sick grandmother. Hawaiian election laws and post-dated documents reveal he may have attended a hearing with Hawaiian Chief Elections Officer regarding his disqualification from ballot due to lack of certified Constitutional eligibility.-

    Honolulu, Hawaii – At the center of the war over Barack Obama’s illegitimacy as president are a series of deep seated, unanswered questions about the detailed involvement of several municipal employees and officials within the government of the State of Hawaii. From former governor, Linda Lingle’s convenient deniability to former Health Department director, Chiyome Fukino’s intentionally misleading statements about Obama’s vital records. From the blatant dismissive ignorance of Hawaii’s legislature about the difference between “U.S. Citizenship” and “Natural-born citizenship”, to the claims by a former Honolulu senior elections office clerk that the State of Hawaii does not possess an original, 1961 Certificate of Live Birth for Barack Obama, the State of Hawaii has emerged as the primary co-conspirator in keeping Obama’s identity a well kept secret from the American people.

    Now, however, a new investigation of Hawaii’s Election Commission and the laws used by the state’s Office of Elections to approve or deny candidates for inclusion on presidential ballots raises shocking revelations about the power held by too few unaccountable people. The evidence shows that agents, working within the jurisdiction of state law, opened shadowy legal channels enabling Obama an opportunity usurp presidential power and assault the Constitutional sovereignty of the American people.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/01/new-report-on-obamas-democratic-party.html

  126. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett January 10, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    Every time you make John cry, god kills a kitten.

    Please don’t ask him about the birther thing. He’ll cry.