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The Occasional Open Thread – en Costa Rica

I’m in the southwest part of Costa Rica looking at a very nice sunset over the Pacific Ocean.

So what’s on your Obama conspiratorial minds?

496 Responses to The Occasional Open Thread – en Costa Rica

  1. avatar
    Mary Brown January 25, 2011 at 7:19 pm #

    I am sitting in front of my computer in Nebraska watching my parrot ring her play bell as I try to stay warm. What am I thinking? I will watch the State of the Union Speech on C Span so I can listen to it and not commentators.

  2. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 25, 2011 at 8:00 pm #

    Thanks Doc! Just getting settled in for the State of the Union back here in snowy Michigan – enjoy your sunset!

  3. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 25, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    Latest WND nonsense

    Game-changer! Arizona to pass 2012 eligibility law
    Obama will have to produce birth certificate to run again

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=255489

  4. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 25, 2011 at 9:21 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Latest WND nonsenseGame-changer! Arizona to pass 2012 eligibility law
    Obama will have to produce birth certificate to run againhttp://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=255489

    I certainly hope Arizona passes an eligibility law – I’ve been worried that the birthers aren’t competent enough to get standing. I want to see the looks on their faces when it turns out that the COLB was the birth certificate all along and proves President Obama’s eligibility in open court. My prediction: Best Birther FAIL ever!

  5. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 25, 2011 at 9:24 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    I certainly hope Arizona passes an eligibility law – I’ve been worried that the birthers aren’t competent enough to get standing.I want to see the looks on their faces when it turns out that the COLB was the birth certificate all along and proves President Obama’s eligibility in open court.My prediction:Best Birther FAIL ever!

    Yeah, that’s true. slart. They think that these states are going to require him to prove that both his parents were citizens to get on the ballots. Boy, are they going to be disappointed.lmao

  6. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 25, 2011 at 10:31 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    I certainly hope Arizona passes an eligibility law – I’ve been worried that the birthers aren’t competent enough to get standing.I want to see the looks on their faces when it turns out that the COLB was the birth certificate all along and proves President Obama’s eligibility in open court.My prediction:Best Birther FAIL ever!

    I notice a lot of birthers are now saying that a state should pass a law that requires the long form certificate. I’ve pointed out several errors including that it would be a violation of the Full Faith and Credit Clause in the constitution and also mentioned how no state has even proposed that

  7. avatar
    Reality Check January 25, 2011 at 10:53 pm #

    Doc

    Why don’t you come clean and admit you have fled the country to avoid the great Obot hunt led by the guy with the huge head and the nutter Sharon Rondeau. πŸ˜‰

  8. avatar
    US Citizen January 25, 2011 at 10:55 pm #

    Let them pass such requirements.
    Obama’s already an incumbent president.
    No one will ask him. If they do, they or their candidates will have to as well.
    These other candidates are going to be displaying *their* COLBs as proof and suddenly we’ll be awash in COLBs.
    That can only be a good thing.
    Dems and Repubs alike will be agreeing left and right that a COLB is sufficient and it will drive birthers crazy.

  9. avatar
    US Citizen January 25, 2011 at 10:57 pm #

    Btw, here’s one of teh crazier threads one can find out in conspiro-land:

    http://conservative-alliance.oli.us/index.php/topic,3988.0.html

  10. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 25, 2011 at 11:23 pm #

    What’s funny about this is that, from reading some of the blogs about this article, the birther klan thinks that if a state passes a law like this, the candidate must come to their houses and have them approve the “birth certificate” before the state will put the candidate on the ballot. They say that if there’s no doctor’s signature on it, they won’t approve it. lmao

  11. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 25, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    I guess that means unless a Republican has a birth certificate that has no doctor’s signature on it; then it’s okay. lol

  12. avatar
    Majority Will January 25, 2011 at 11:35 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: I guess that means unless a Republican has a birth certificate that has no doctor’s signature on it; then it’s okay. lol

    In the idiotic birtherverse, being born at home without a doctor present clearly means you’re not a natural born citizen.

    Not one birther has ever been able to explain when or why proof of doctor and hospital became a legal requirement to establish eligibility.

  13. avatar
    Sean January 25, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    You raise an interesting point. But what is the language on the bill? If they ask just for a birth certificate, they would be missing the point of their intention. Does it require a copy of the original?

    Slartibartfast:
    I certainly hope Arizona passes an eligibility law – I’ve been worried that the birthers aren’t competent enough to get standing.I want to see the looks on their faces when it turns out that the COLB was the birth certificate all along and proves President Obama’s eligibility in open court.My prediction:Best Birther FAIL ever!

  14. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 25, 2011 at 11:43 pm #

    Majority Will:
    In the idiotic birtherverse, being born at home without a doctor present clearly means you’re not a natural born citizen.Not one birther has ever been able to explain when or why proof of doctor and hospital became a legal requirement to establish eligibility.

    No doubt, Will. Any candidate, Republicans too, who submits a birth certificate will submit virtually the same thing that President Obama has shown. They know his doesn’t have a doctor’s name or signature, so they say they will not accept one without it, but when Republicans submit virtually the same thing he has without a doctor’s name or signature, they will have to move the goalposts again because they are not going to hold Republican candidates to a standard they can’t meet. This is hilarious.

  15. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 25, 2011 at 11:47 pm #

    Essentially, conservatives want to become the sole authority in determining whom the American people can and cannot vote for by restricting candidates’ access to the ballot according to their demands, and there’s a word for that – FASCISM

  16. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 12:01 am #

    Let’s let registered Republicans be the ones to decide whom we can and cannot vote for, now there’s a great idea. lmao

  17. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 26, 2011 at 12:17 am #

    Sean: You raise an interesting point. But what is the language on the bill? If they ask just for a birth certificate, they would be missing the point of their intention. Does it require a copy of the original?

    Sean, that’s the beauty of it – if the COLB is sufficient then the brithers will be with the wailing and gnashing of teeth about how the state didn’t do it right at the same time the entire movement will have been completely marginalized as wingnuts or they will end up with some court handing down a ruling that sounds a lot like Ankeny (also followed by the wailing and gnashing of teeth and the falling on deaf ears). Either way, it’s the ‘grand finale’ of the birhter movement – although it may continue on, it will never reclaim even the shadow of its former glory.

  18. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 12:42 am #

    Slartibartfast: although it may continue on, it will never reclaim even the shadow of its former glory.

    Not that there was much “glory” to begin with. They are one step removed from the PUMAs in terms of pathetically failed movements to be consigned to the dustbin of history, other than as a massive example of crazy. These folks are about as credible and sane as the Heaven’s Gate Cult.

  19. avatar
    US Citizen January 26, 2011 at 12:48 am #

    I think we’re in for a lot of laughs, but it will never stop birthers from being ignorant.
    No, we’ll probably see even more craziness.
    I predict the formation of the Super Duper American Grand Jury.

    But more than anything, I pine for Taitz’ license to be suspended so she can start suing the California Bar Association.
    (Pro se, of course πŸ˜‰

    I hand delivered the Soros’ checks to the CBA, so I know they won’t disappoint.

    In other news, Lakin will emerge a free man in the near future.
    That’ll certainly spurn a new round of idol worship that gets them nowhere.

  20. avatar
    obsolete January 26, 2011 at 2:03 am #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Essentially, conservatives want to become the sole authority in determining whom the American people can and cannot vote for by restricting candidates’ access to the ballot according to their demands, and there’s a word for that – FASCISM

    If you read the comments at the Chicago Tribune and other boards, the articles on Rahm Emmanual are filled with conservatives bursting with glee that a court ruled him ineligible, never mind that there is a valid debate whether the ruling is correct, and screw the many (probable majority) of voters that want to vote for Rahm- too bad!

    Conservative hate Democracy- they proved it in 2000.

  21. avatar
    Zixi of Ix January 26, 2011 at 2:38 am #

    Hope you are enjoying Costa Rica.

    I’m currently enjoying the amusement offered by the fine folks at Free Republic.

    Last weekend,Friday, January 21st, a thread was posted entitled Hawaii Law: Child born prior 1967 must have Christian name, which tries to make the case that since “Barrack” isn’t Christian, clearly, he wasn’t born in Hawaii, or something along those lines.

    Found here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2660806/posts

    Ignoring the fact that “Barrack” is a name from the Old Testament, and the fact that such laws are completely unenforceable, it seems that the birthers are just one teensy step away from making stuff up from thin air.

    While I stand by my previous prediction that the birther movement will become stronger and more demanding of politician’s time and attention as we approach the 2012 election, the birthers are clearly at the point where they’re taking up residence in Crazy Town.

    With a little luck, this will all come together and bite the behind of any politician who refused to denounce previous birther idiocy.

  22. avatar
    nc1 January 26, 2011 at 4:50 am #

    Slartibartfast: I certainly hope Arizona passes an eligibility law – I’ve been worried that the birthers aren’t competent enough to get standing. I want to see the looks on their faces when it turns out that the COLB was the birth certificate all along and proves President Obama’s eligibility in open court. My prediction: Best Birther FAIL ever!

    That is exactly what Abercrombie wanted to do – end the birther debate, prove birthers wrong.

    Could you imagine how he felt when he realized that Obama “punk’d” him? No long form birth certificate.

    You will feel the same once you realize that COLB image posted on FactCheck is not an image of an official document but a forgery.

  23. avatar
    obsolete January 26, 2011 at 5:21 am #

    nc1: No long form birth certificate.

    Please provide proof.

    nc1:
    You will feel the same once you realize that COLB image posted on FactCheck is not an image of an official document but a forgery.

    Please provide proof, or at least copies of the reports you filed with the proper authorities.
    Have you made up your mind yet whether Obama forged the COLB, or hacked the database, or both?

  24. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 26, 2011 at 5:25 am #

    nc1:
    That is exactly what Abercrombie wanted to do – end the birther debate, prove birthers wrong.Could you imagine how he felt when he realized that Obama “punk’d” him?No long form birth certificate.You will feel the same once you realize that COLB image posted on FactCheck is not an image of an official document but a forgery.

    Sorry, but you’ve failed once again – Dr. Fukino confirmed (in testimony to a Hawai’i state senate committee) that President Obama posted an image of his birth certificate online. Unless you have evidence that she perjured herself, all reasonable people will take her at her word. The whole eligibility debate is over – you birthers just haven’t figured it out yet. It will be most amusing when the COLB proves sufficient to demonstrate President Obama’s eligibility… I’ll bet that it just burned you up how articulate and presidential President Obama was tonight – I wonder if well see a bump in his approval numbers (over 50% in some polls – a sitting president has never lost re-election in the modern era with over at 50% approval rating…

  25. avatar
    obsolete January 26, 2011 at 5:32 am #

    Has nc1 forgotten that WND pronounced Obama’s COLB as genuine?

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214

    “A separate WND investigation into Obama’s certification of live birth utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren’t originally there.”

  26. avatar
    The Magic M January 26, 2011 at 5:35 am #

    > Ignoring the fact that “Barrack” is a name from the Old Testament, and the fact that such laws are completely unenforceable

    … and that “Christian name” does not refer to the Christian religion at all but is an outdated way of saying “first name” or “given name”.

    > proves President Obama’s eligibility in open court. My prediction: Best Birther FAIL ever!

    Just like Ankeny. That will not stop birthers from moving on, upholding their “corrupt judge, complicit judicial system” meme.

  27. avatar
    US Citizen January 26, 2011 at 5:44 am #

    nc1: You will feel the same once you realize that COLB image posted on FactCheck is not an image of an official document but a forgery.

    No, actually none of use will feel that way here.
    Neither will the RNC, state dept, FBI, CIA, NSA, local, state or federal courts, senators or electors.
    Obama has been president for 2 years, will remain president another 2 years and very likely will be elected for another 4 on top of that.

  28. avatar
    Bovril January 26, 2011 at 6:16 am #

    Yep,

    The Az bill as written, if passed will l;ast for about as lomng as it takes for any COMPETENT (ie non Birfoon) lawyer to say WTF….

    Liny to bill

    http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/1r/bills/hb2544p.pdf

    F Up the First

    1. AN ORIGINAL LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE THAT INCLUDES THE DATE AND
    PLACE OF BIRTH, THE NAMES OF THE HOSPITAL AND THE ATTENDING PHYSICIAN AND SIGNATURES OF THE WITNESSES IN ATTENDANCE.

    a. Ooops, Full Faith and Credit says “You Fail”, you get whatever the state issues and that’s it.

    b. No original “long Form” you only EVER get a certified copy of , the original ALWAYS stays in the vital records repository

    F up the Second

    A SWORN STATEMENT ATTESTING THAT THE CANDIDATE HAS NOT HELD DUAL OR
    MULTIPLE CITIZENSHIP AND THAT THE CANDIDATE’S ALLEGIANCE IS SOLELY TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

    No state gets to add requirements to yer basic Constitution….You go to jail , do not pass Go, do not claim $200

    F up the Third

    A SWORN STATEMENT OR FORM THAT IDENTIFIES THE CANDIDATE’S PLACES OF
    RESIDENCE IN THE UNITED STATES FOR THE PRECEDING FOURTEEN YEARS.

    So, any soldier who servef abroiad anytime in the last 14 years is out, what about a CEO of a company who spent a year setting up a company in the Far East that? etc. In fact….What about Ike…….

    F up the Fourth

    IF BOTH THE CANDIDATE AND THE NATIONAL POLITICAL PARTY COMMITTEE
    FOR THAT CANDIDATE FAIL TO SUBMIT AND SWEAR TO THE DOCUMENTS PRESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL NOT PLACE THAT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE’S NAME ON THE BALLOT IN THIS STATE.

    States don’t get to determine Federal and Constitutional standing….More legal money out the door anyone..?

  29. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 7:14 am #

    So only people born in hospitals are eligible? That would come as news to the 40 or so previous Presidents who were not.

    And now all that Kim Jong Il has to do is grant everyone in the US irrevocable North Korean citizenship and the presidency will have to stand vacant.

  30. avatar
    ellid January 26, 2011 at 7:28 am #

    nc1:
    That is exactly what Abercrombie wanted to do – end the birther debate, prove birthers wrong.Could you imagine how he felt when he realized that Obama “punk’d” him?No long form birth certificate.You will feel the same once you realize that COLB image posted on FactCheck is not an image of an official document but a forgery.

    I’m still waiting for proof that you’re not Orly Taitz and/or a Balkan war criminal. I’ve been waiting for two years, NC. Where’s the proof?

  31. avatar
    kimba January 26, 2011 at 8:40 am #

    Bovril: So, any soldier who servef abroiad anytime in the last 14 years is out, what about a CEO of a company who spent a year setting up a company in the Far East that? etc. In fact….

    This is an interesting question to consider. A soldier, or a government official assigned say to an overseas embassy is out of the US in service to the US, but not a legal resident of the country they’re deployed to. But is a CEO, or other employee of a company who legally resides in a foreign country, not a resident of the US during that time? Doesn’t having a work visa to work in England, Germany, France, Dubai make you a legal resident of that country? What if you maintain a home in the US during that time? You can vote through the state in which you normally reside. Any examples of this other than Jefferson, John Adams and John Quincy Adams, + Ike? – but they were overseas in service to the US govt. Clinton was a Rhodes scholar, but back more than 14 years before he ran for President.

  32. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 8:47 am #

    Scientist: So only people born in hospitals are eligible? That would come as news to the 40 or so previous Presidents who were not.

    No, no, no. That evidently began in 2008 by secret birther ballot.

  33. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 8:59 am #

    Bovril: Yep,The Az bill as written, if passed will l;ast for about as lomng as it takes for any COMPETENT (ie non Birfoon) lawyer to say WTF….Liny to billhttp://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/1r/bills/hb2544p.pdfF Up the First1. AN ORIGINAL LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE THAT INCLUDES THE DATE ANDPLACE OF BIRTH, THE NAMES OF THE HOSPITAL AND THE ATTENDING PHYSICIAN AND SIGNATURES OF THE WITNESSES IN ATTENDANCE.a. Ooops, Full Faith and Credit says “You Fail”, you get whatever the state issues and that’s it.b. No original “long Form” you only EVER get a certified copy of , the original ALWAYS stays in the vital records repositoryF up the SecondA SWORN STATEMENT ATTESTING THAT THE CANDIDATE HAS NOT HELD DUAL ORMULTIPLE CITIZENSHIP AND THAT THE CANDIDATE’S ALLEGIANCE IS SOLELY TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.No state gets to add requirements to yer basic Constitution….You go to jail , do not pass Go, do not claim $200F up the ThirdA SWORN STATEMENT OR FORM THAT IDENTIFIES THE CANDIDATE’S PLACES OFRESIDENCE IN THE UNITED STATES FOR THE PRECEDING FOURTEEN YEARS.So, any soldier who servef abroiad anytime in the last 14 years is out, what about a CEO of a company who spent a year setting up a company in the Far East that? etc. In fact….What about Ike…….F up the FourthIF BOTH THE CANDIDATE AND THE NATIONAL POLITICAL PARTY COMMITTEEFOR THAT CANDIDATE FAIL TO SUBMIT AND SWEAR TO THE DOCUMENTS PRESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, THE SECRETARY OF STATE SHALL NOT PLACE THAT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE’S NAME ON THE BALLOT IN THIS STATE.States don’t get to determine Federal and Constitutional standing….More legal money out the door anyone..?

    I’ll let some of the birthers explain their reasoning here. From the Weasel zippers cesspool…

    philip the south african says:
    January 25, 2011 at 12:23 pm
    this is unfortunately all going to be a non-issue unless one state passes a law against using computer records when original data is avail to establish presidential eligibility.
    at that time, if it comes, this will get fought out in court.
    while true, that you cannot go on remote fishing expeditions, asserting that this could plausibly be heard in any court, with the state of HI through its records agents, NOT being expected to assert what records they possess, (not display or publicly release)
    is nonsensical.
    At that point, they will need to assert how they conserve documents, how these fdocs were transcribed into computer records, they will testify to which historical docs (with the actual doc/copies under seal) they can confirm to possess…

    at that time, if we get there, is when it goes to shit for Obama. No one even needs to win the case, since at that DISCOVERY phase, HI officials will assert that they possess only Obama BC secondary records
    —————————————-

    The end said: One one state forces this into court with such a law, then you can get HI officials on the stand, and compel them to assert what they DO SPECIFICALLY possess.
    At that point, Obama has serious trouble either way, since if he/HI takes this to court, they create a entire new media controversy around Obama,
    and if they simply go t0 court, it opens their officials to the one thing they cannot withstand, which is a LONE simplt question of the certifying official
    —————————————–

    So let me get this line of reasoning straight. One of the states pass a law requiring the long form. In order to get on the ballot Obama sues and somehow this gives the birthers standing to get discovery? Yeah that’s tortured logic. They wouldn’t even get too far as once this law is passed through a statehouse the DOJ is under obligation to sue on behalf of the federal government as that law would be in violation of the Full Faith and Credit Clause.

  34. avatar
    Lupin January 26, 2011 at 9:09 am #

    I too like the fact that when Birthers come out “in the open” (as it were) with insane proposals like that, they only make themselves look even more demented — if that’s possible.

    For example, I picture NC1 an individual with spittle on the mouth and flies circling around (poor hygiene) ranting incoherently about “long-form” birth certificates. Sort of like a character from the EC horror comics.

  35. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 9:20 am #

    kimba: But is a CEO, or other employee of a company who legally resides in a foreign country, not a resident of the US during that time?

    The IRS has some very complex rules regarding whether or not one is considered a foreign resident. In the case of a private sector employee, if their principal place of business were overseas, they would generally be considered a resident of the country they were living and working in. Maintaining a home in the US wouldn’t change that. They would, of course, remain US citizens and be able to vote from overseas by absentee ballot

    .http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96950,00.html

  36. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 9:26 am #

    Lupin: I too like the fact that when Birthers come out “in the open” (as it were) with insane proposals like that, they only make themselves look even more demented — if that’s possible.For example, I picture NC1 an individual with spittle on the mouth and flies circling around (poor hygiene) ranting incoherently about “long-form” birth certificates. Sort of like a character from the EC horror comics.

    The birther reasoning for a law that requires a long form to get on the ballot is like this. They claim that once that happens Obama would have to sue to get on the ballot. This would then give them standing and Hawaii would have to be on the record if they have the original long form or not. They think this will open up the discovery process. The problem is this wouldn’t even go far. The DOJ would be under obligation to sue the state for violating the Full Faith and Credit clause in the constitution.

  37. avatar
    kimba January 26, 2011 at 9:29 am #

    Scientist: The IRS has some very complex rules regarding whether or not one is considered a foreign resident. In the case of a private sector employee, if their principal place of business were overseas, they would generally be considered a resident of the country they were living and working in. Maintaining a home in the US wouldn’t change that. They would, of course, remain US citizens and be able to vote from overseas by absentee ballot.http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/international/article/0,,id=96950,00.html

    Sounds like people who aspire to be President someday and whose lives might take them overseas need to keep track of time.

  38. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 9:30 am #

    By the way, the determination of residency for tax purposes in such cases is extremely complex and generally a bonanza for lawyers, as they can be litigated for years. Is that what we want? Is that really going to enhance US competitiveness?

  39. avatar
    misha January 26, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    US Citizen: Obama has been president for 2 years, will remain president another 2 years and very likely will be elected for another 4 on top of that.

    Obama will be re-elected, and Cory Booker will follow. Better get used to it, Denialists.

  40. avatar
    Bovril January 26, 2011 at 9:52 am #

    Some of these very questions are coming up in Rahm’s appeal to run for Mayor of Chicago.

    I mean the Founding Fathers must be spinning in their graves over this. If a continuous, uninterrupted 14 years residence in the US is required, then

    John Adams is disqualified…multiple ambassadorships

    William Jefferson is disqualified….Minister to France

    James Monroe is disqualified…Ambassador to France

    John Quincy Adams is disqualified…Minister to Prussia, United States Minister to Russia (very suspicious), chief negotiator of the U.S. commission for the Treaty of Ghent, minister to the Court of St. James’s (Britain),

    etc
    etc

    Never mind all those presidents who visited, lived, worked or went through those parts of the continental USA that were then NOT part of the polis of the USA.

  41. avatar
    misha January 26, 2011 at 9:52 am #

    Bovril: So, any soldier who servef abroiad anytime in the last 14 years is out, what about a CEO of a company who spent a year setting up a company in the Far East that? etc. In fact….What about Ike…….

    Hoover’s 14 years were cumulative, not consecutive, as were Eisenhower’s.

  42. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 10:05 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): The DOJ would be under obligation to sue the state for violating the Full Faith and Credit clause in the constitution.

    I doubt it would get that far.

    As bizarrely delusional and willfully ignorant as some bigoted politicians (State Rep. Leo Berman) are, you would think that the state AG would be familiar with Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution.

  43. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    Majority Will:
    I doubt it would get that far.As bizarrely delusional and willfully ignorant as some bigoted politicians (State Rep. Leo Berman) are, you would think that the state AG would be familiar with Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution.

    And in 1969, Leo Berman received a Bachelor of Arts degree in political science from Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

    He must have slept through the U.S. History and Constitution classes.
    Too much Southern Comfort?

  44. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 10:41 am #

    Unrelated to conspiracies but I noticed Foxnews sugarcoating Alito, Thomas, Scalia skipping the state of the Union by comparing it to Thomas Jefferson

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/01/25/like-justice-alito-thomas-jefferson-skipped-state-union-started-new-tradition/

    There’s a reason Jefferson didn’t attend. He was a poor speaker.

  45. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    Speaking of conspiracy theories:

    http://jalopnik.com/5739333/president-kennedys-ambulance-is-a-fake

    The attention to minutiae should ring as familiar.

  46. avatar
    J Maine January 26, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    “Sorry, but you’ve failed once again – Dr. Fukino confirmed (in testimony to a Hawai’i state senate committee) that President Obama posted an image of his birth certificate online.”

    Where is this statement?

    Abercrombie has exposed the true believers here. Pride does indeed come before the fall.

    I told you, he lied about Kapi’olani. FACT.

    What else has he lied about?

    Much.

  47. avatar
    The Magic M January 26, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    > They claim that once that happens Obama would have to sue to get on the ballot. This would then give them standing

    I don’t see how the (birther) logic would work in your scenario. Why would it give the birthers standing if Obama has to sue AZ to get on the ballot as opposed to being on the ballot from the start as it is now?
    For the voters, there is no difference whether a candidate is on the ballot or is suing (or has successfully sued) to get on it.

  48. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    J Maine: “Sorry, but you’ve failed once again – Dr. Fukino confirmed (in testimony to a Hawai’i state senate committee) that President Obama posted an image of his birth certificate online.”Where is this statement?Abercrombie has exposed the true believers here. Pride does indeed come before the fall.I told you, he lied about Kapi’olani. FACT.What else has he lied about?Much.

    The statement has been posed over and over again for you birthers
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/28117439/Sb2937-Testimony-Jgo-02-23-10-Late
    “For more than a year, the Department of Health has continued to receive approximately 50 e-mail inquiries a month seeking access to President Barack Obama’s birth certificate in spite of the fact that President Obama has posted a copy of the certificate on his former campaign website. Hawaii is a “closed records” state, meaning that vital records are available on ly to those with a direct and tangible interest as defined by statute; hence they are not subject to disclosure under public records requests.”

    Just saying things are facts are not facts. Abercrombie didn’t lie about anything.

  49. avatar
    Sef January 26, 2011 at 11:55 am #

    Majority Will: Speaking of conspiracy theories:http://jalopnik.com/5739333/president-kennedys-ambulance-is-a-fakeThe attention to minutiae should ring as familiar.

    The next time I see Dan Fenn, I’ll ask him if he knows anything about this.

  50. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    J Maine: I told you, he lied about Kapi’olani. FACT.

    You seem to be confused about the definition of the word “fact”.

  51. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    Sef:
    The next time I see Dan Fenn, I’ll ask him if he knows anything about this.

    Please do. I’d like to know why it was destroyed in 1986!

  52. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    J Maine: SQUAWK ! ! !

    Joe is a delusional birther bigot. FACT.

  53. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 12:48 pm #

    I’m beginning to wonder about the tag team birther phenomenon on this blog as well.

    Strange.

  54. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    Majority Will: I’m beginning to wonder about the tag team birther phenomenon on this blog as well.Strange.

    Yeah, funny how J Maine just shows up after nc1 gets torched again…spouting almost the same talking points.

  55. avatar
    Bovril January 26, 2011 at 1:02 pm #

    Here sockie, sockie, sockie….there’s a good puppet

  56. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 1:33 pm #

    G:
    Yeah, funny how J Maine just shows up after nc1 gets torched again…spouting almost the same talking points.

    More likely, they are lurkers and typical birther cowards who feel obligated to represent the diminished capacity racists and vile bigots of society by chiming in from time to time.

    Their little, senile Stormfront heads will pop like infected zits when President Obama is re-elected to a second term.

  57. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 26, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    J Maine: “Sorry, but you’ve failed once again – Dr. Fukino confirmed (in testimony to a Hawai’i state senate committee) that President Obama posted an image of his birth certificate online.”

    Where is this statement?

    For more than a year, the Department of Health has continued to receive approximately 50 e-mail inquiries a month seeking access to President Barack Obama’s birth certificate in spite of the fact that President Obama has posted a copy of the certificate on his former campaign website.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/07/spinning-dr-fukino/

    Her stament was to a subcommittee of the Hawai’ian state senate (I believe that such testimony is made under oath and is subject to the pains and penalties of perjury – can anyone verify this?). Will you admit that you were wrong, ignore the facts, or slink away ignominiously?

  58. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    Abercrombie statements imply no long form birth certificate exists. Does one? Did Fukino lie? We don’t know. Obama refused to assist Abercrombie’s investigation. Why? Abercrombie set out to clarify matters, and settle the”birther” issue once and for all. Instead, he has legitimized inquiries into Obama’s birth records.

    In Dreams from My Father Obama wrote “You know, as soon as the Old Man died, the lawyers contacted all those who might have a claim to the inheritance. Unlike my mum, Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was.”

    What did he mean by that? Everyone knows the state of Hawaii has proof on file of who his father was…

  59. avatar
    BatGuano January 26, 2011 at 2:48 pm #

    did anyone bring up the mike evans allegation yet ?

  60. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    G:
    Yeah, funny how J Maine just shows up after nc1 gets torched again…spouting almost the same talking points.

    And the idiotic birther tagging continues . . .

  61. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 26, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    Freddy N.: In Dreams from My Father Obama wrote

    He was quoting his half-sister Auma – you can add another fail to this sockpuppet…

  62. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    “Her stament was to a subcommittee of the Hawai’ian state senate (I believe that such testimony is made under oath and is subject to the pains and penalties of perjury”

    Her testimony has been contradicted by Abercrombie. That she may have committed perjury justifies further investigation of these matters.

  63. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    Freddy N.: Abercrombie statements imply no long form birth certificate exists. Does one? Did Fukino lie? We don’t know. Obama refused to assist Abercrombie’s investigation. Why? Abercrombie set out to clarify matters, and settle the”birther” issue once and for all. Instead, he has legitimized inquiries into Obama’s birth records.In Dreams from My Father Obama wrote “You know, as soon as the Old Man died, the lawyers contacted all those who might have a claim to the inheritance. Unlike my mum, Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was.”What did he mean by that? Everyone knows the state of Hawaii has proof on file of who his father was…

    If you read the passage it was his half sister Auma talking and not Obama. Abercrombie doesn’t say or imply there is no long form. Again you birthers try to put words in people’s mouths.

  64. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    Freddy N.: “Her stament was to a subcommittee of the Hawai’ian state senate (I believe that such testimony is made under oath and is subject to the pains and penalties of perjury”Her testimony has been contradicted by Abercrombie. That she may have committed perjury justifies further investigation of these matters.

    Only in the Biorther Universe, where words don’t mean quite the same thing as they do in English.

    If you’re so “concerned”, why don’t you contact the Attorney General’s office and swear out a complaint?

    And do let us know how that works out for you, OK? WE all need a good laugh now and then.

  65. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    Our good friends over at Weasel Zippers are on a role today with more stupid quips. http://weaselzippers.us/2011/01/26/hawaii-dem-gov-neil-abercrombie-admits-there-are-no-obama-birth-records-in-his-state/#comment-37499

    Comments range from this being a setup to make birthers look stupid to Obama’s dad not being his dad. The seething is pathetic

    Randy says:
    January 26, 2011 at 11:02 am
    I think it’s a concerted effort to bring out the Birthers. I’m not convinced he was ever eligible, but I think it is specifically designed to take away the ability of the right to criticize his handling on the issues by making them look like raving 9/11 Truthers or something. If they (the left) can show that the Birthers are making this argument all about the person, they (the left) win. Of course you can’t have a personal argument with a Black Indonesian Muslim. That’s blatant racism. If we fight using Alinsky tactics, we lose.

    Obama is incompetent. At this point it doesn’t matter to me where he was born. It should, but it’s a bit late now. The genie is out of the bottle. Plug the hole, then clean up the damage. Tea-nami 2012 is coming.

    ———————————-

    artsykr says:
    January 26, 2011 at 11:31 am
    This won’t bring out the Birthers or as I like to call myself a “Truthers” cuz we are already “out” (imagine that… they’re “OUT”- sorry i just couldn’t resist..) anyway what it will shed light on is all those who tried to cover it up in Hawaii in the courts and in the Dem party… How does that line go… “….Let there be LIGHT” … am sure you all know the line better than I.

    Let it Shine baby, let it Shine….
    ———————
    annblake says:
    January 26, 2011 at 11:45 am
    How in the world did Obama get a passport then? You have to have a passport to travel, which he did to go to Indonesia. Any thoughts?

    ————————————

    er says:
    January 26, 2011 at 11:46 am
    I don’t understand the folks who say this is some conspiracy to bring out the birthers, cause a Republican split, etc. I think it is what it is: There isn’t a document suitable for release. The guy is a fraud and like all leftists believed that rules didn’t apply to him. Only a handful of people in power really know the truth and they knew from the very beginning.
    In 2012 a new President of either party will seal Ozero’s records for 100 years to “protect the Country” and “move forward” and that, as they say, will be that.

    I hope I am wrong. I hope that instead of another Nixon pardon the truth wins so our children will believe they matter.

    ——————————————-
    artsykr says:
    January 26, 2011 at 11:55 am
    When he was adopted by Lolo Soetero when he was 6 Indonesia did not recognize duel citizenship so where ever he was born had to be renounced and he became an Indonesian citizen which is also the only way he could attend school.
    He had gone to Pakistan twice, once in 1980 and once in 1981, in order for him to go he had to use his Indonesian Passport because as I understand it US citizens were not permitted to go.
    This has all been well documented over the past few years.

    So my questions have always been, did he ever renounce his Indonesian citizenship and if so when? and Did he ever take the US oath of citizenship and if so when? In either case he is not eligible to sit as POTUS as one cannot have duel citizenship nor can one be a naturalized citizen.

    Question now is, what will the Republicans in office do?
    ————————
    er says:
    January 26, 2011 at 11:57 am
    annblake, I suppose his parents produced the COLB for him to get a passport; That was likely acceptable in the early 60s as children didn’t need SS#s in 1961 or so. Later, when he was of age, he either used his “minor child passport” as ID to get a new one or he entered the Country as an Indonesian or bought a fake one.
    True story: Someone offered to supply me with a REAL passport in DC with any name I wanted in the late 80s for only $1000.
    —————————–

    Random in Texas says:
    January 26, 2011 at 12:07 pm
    @Bob Ross: Try LISTENING to the sound file. It begins around 2:43 into the recording.

    Of course, I suppose you COULD make the argument that no where on the recording does ABERCROMBIE himself state that there is no Obama Birth Certificate. This is true. The interviewere is not interviewing ABERCROMBIE; he is interviewing MIKE EVANS. MIKE EVANS states in the recording that Abercrombie told him there was no birth certificate; no evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Now you could make the argument that this is heresay; that Evans could be lying, or mistaken, or spoke to someone else by the name of Neil Abercrombie, not the actual Neil Abercrombie who is governor of Hawaii. Or perhaps you could say that Evans was high on magic mushrooms and simply dreamed the whole thing.

    But to say that nowhere on the recording is it ever said that Abercrombie said there is no Obama birth certificate is disengenuous and an outright lie. Did you even listen to the recording?
    ———————————
    whthfk says:
    January 26, 2011 at 2:25 pm
    I don’t care where Obama was born. I care about getting him out of office because he’s a fucking Marxist scum.

    If it turns out he also lied to get college grant money and was not eligible because he forged documents all the better for his impeachment trail.

    It’s stupid to fight over a birth certificate.. If daddy is indeed Obama senior then bobo is not a natural born citizen and can be removed from office. Let the impeachment trails begin.

    If he was born to some unknown black man and Grandpa and Grandma set the fake marriage up to (1) let fake Daddy stay in the country longer to get he’s Harvard degree
    And (2) to help the Marxist and Communist movements advance (which is more then likely the case. Obama is still ineligible for the presidency.

    Something is being hidden to many lies have been told by Obama, his birth parents and all those who have aided him to get to the presidency.

    Obama wrote a book sort of about dreams of my Father. He can get in deep shit for fraud along with all the social security cards he has and the grants or loans he took out for college under false pretences

    I think Daddy is someone everyone wants to keep quite about.
    That’s why the man is hiding all person records.

    Jail and treason that would be worth millions if not trillions of dollars to all parties concerned to protect.

    Either way there is more to Obama then just a missing Birth Certificate and the mystery needs to be solved.
    Before 2012.

  66. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 3:07 pm #

    Abercrombie said “It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …”

    That’s a strange way to describe an official document, and the routine matter of locating it in a file. Abercrombie needs to clarify his statements. It’s also strange Obama refused to allow his family friend to settle the matter once and for all.

  67. avatar
    Sef January 26, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    Freddy N.: Abercrombie said “It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …”That’s a strange way to describe an official document, and the routine matter of locating it in a file. Abercrombie needs to clarify his statements. It’s also strange Obama refused to allow his family friend to settle the matter once and for all.

    Why should Obama want to “settle this once and for all”? He and we are having too much fun laughing at birthers’ idiocies.

  68. avatar
    misha January 26, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    Freddy N.: It’s also strange Obama refused to allow his family friend to settle the matter once and for all.

    I found an authentic Kenya BC (Obama’s?). Hope this helps.

  69. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    Freddy N.: That’s a strange way to describe an official document, and the routine matter of locating it in a file.

    Not strange at all. Seems pretty straight forward to me. There it is.

    Freddy N.: Abercrombie needs to clarify his statements.

    No he doesn’t.

    Now OTOH, I understand that YOU want him to say what you need him to say…. but that is your need, not his.

    Freddy N.: It’s also strange Obama refused to allow his family friend to settle the matter once and for all.

    Except, of course, that Obama’s refusal exists only in your mind. There’s nothing that would suggest that Obama did so, other than in your shouldawouldacoulda inventive reasoning.

    Freddy N.:to settle the matter once and for all.

    The matter was settled once and for all two years ago.

    Get over it.

  70. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    Freddy: Why the obsession over where someone was born? Are you into astrology? Do you truly think a person’s entire life is determined by the alignment of the stars at the exact place and time of their birth?

  71. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    “o he doesn’t.

    Now OTOH, I understand that YOU want him to say what you need him to say”

    I expect if there was an official long form birth certificate on file, he would have said that. He didn’t. It’s significant he chose not to. His purpose was to clarify this matter.

    “The matter was settled once and for all two years ago.”

    Abercrombie has unsettled it.

    “Except, of course, that Obama’s refusal exists only in your mind. There’s nothing that would suggest that Obama did so”

    Abercrombie’s office stated Obama’s lack of consent was why the Governor ended his quest:

    A privacy law that shields birth certificates has prompted Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie to abandon efforts to dispel claims that President Barack Obama was born outside Hawaii, his office says.

    State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual’s birth documentation without the person’s consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said Friday.

  72. avatar
    Black Lion January 26, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    J Maine: “Sorry, but you’ve failed once again – Dr. Fukino confirmed (in testimony to a Hawai’i state senate committee) that President Obama posted an image of his birth certificate online.”Where is this statement?Abercrombie has exposed the true believers here. Pride does indeed come before the fall.I told you, he lied about Kapi’olani. FACT.What else has he lied about?Much.

    Joey, how about this? I seriously doubt Abercrombie knew anything nor told anyone anythng….

    HONOLULU – A privacy law that shields birth certificates has prompted
    Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie to abandon efforts to dispel claims
    that President Barack Obama was born outside Hawaii, his office says.

    State Attorney General David Louie told the governor
    that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual’s birth
    documentation without the person’s consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman
    Donalyn Dela Cruz said Friday.

    “There is nothing more that Gov. Abercrombie can do
    within the law to produce a document,” said Dela Cruz. “Unfortunately,
    there are conspirators who will continue to question the citizenship of
    our president.”

    Abercrombie, who was a friend of Obama’s parents and
    knew him as a child, launched an investigation last month into whether
    he can release more information about the president’s Aug. 4, 1961
    birth. The governor said at the time he was bothered by people who
    questioned Obama’s birthplace for political reasons.

    But Abercrombie’s attempt reached a dead end when Louie told him the law restricted his options.

    Hawaii’s privacy laws have long barred the release of
    a certified birth certificate to anyone who doesn’t have a tangible
    interest.

  73. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    Freddy N.: Abercrombie said “It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …”That’s a strange way to describe an official document, and the routine matter of locating it in a file. Abercrombie needs to clarify his statements. It’s also strange Obama refused to allow his family friend to settle the matter once and for all.

    You’re under the mistaken belief that the misinformed opinion of a pusillanimous teenager and hardcore birther who must suffer delusions of grandeur is somehow relevant to anyone, anywhere and especially to anyone in a position of authority.

    No elected official is under any obligation to personally satisfy the paranoid doubts of every citizen. And those who aren’t even old enough to vote are nothing more than whiny twits who haven’t bothered to acquire any common sense or respect.

    Witness the future generation of bigoted birthers to replace the current dying breed.

  74. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    Scientist: Freddy:Why the obsession over where someone was born?Are you into astrology?Do you truly think a person’s entire life is determined by the alignment of the stars at the exact place and time of their birth?

    You say it doesn’t matter, yet asking questions about it provokes you to fits of hysteria.

  75. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 3:51 pm #

    Majority Will:
    You’re under the mistaken belief that the misinformed opinion of a pusillanimous teenager and hardcore birther who must suffer delusions of grandeur is somehow relevant to anyone, anywhere and especially to anyone in a position of authority.No elected official is under any obligation to personally satisfy the paranoid doubts of every citizen. And those who aren’t even old enough to vote are nothing more than whiny twits who haven’t bothered to acquire any common sense or respect.Witness the future generation of bigoted birthers to replace the current dying breed.

    There’s no need to get so emotional. I’m not a birther, or pusillanimous.

    Abercrombie chose to embark on a quest to dispell all doubts about Obama’s birth, and announced he was doing so to the press. Then Abercrombie made a number of odd statements, which seem to contradict the sworn testimony of other state officials, and raised more questions. Then Abercrombie announced he was giving up, because Obama chose not to give his family friend permission to resolve things. The end result is that questions about Obama’s birth documentation are more legitimate than ever.

  76. avatar
    Black Lion January 26, 2011 at 3:53 pm #

    Lets look at what the above statement I posted said. Specifically this part…”State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual’s birth documentation without the person’s consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said Friday.” So what exactly is birth documentation? The phrase Birth docmentation not imply or states that it is the so called “long form”. So what exactly should Obama release. The same COLB that he has already released that the birthers have made the unsubstantiated claim that it is a forgery? HI law is very specific. The state cannot release so called “long form” because the only birth record that is offically released is the COLB. So what exactly could Obama have given permission to release? Can you tell us?

  77. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 3:55 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    There’s no need to get so emotional. I’m not a birther, or pusillanimous.
    Abercrombie chose to embark on a quest to dispell all doubts about Obama’s birth, and announced he was doing so to the press. Then Abercrombie made a number of odd statements, which seem to contradict the sworn testimony of other state officials, and raised more questions. Then Abercrombie announced he was giving up, because Obama chose not to give his family friend permission to resolve things. The end result is that questions about Obama’s birth documentation are more legitimate than ever.

    lol. The birther klan are the only ones making odd statements, just like they have been doing for two and a half years. Abercrombie clearly said that he was going to look for something that he could release under existing law, and then he went looking for SOMETHING HE COULD RELEASE UNDER EXISTING LAW. He then said that he didn’t find anything, not that there was nothing there, but that he couldn’t find anything HE COULD RELEASE UNDER EXISTING LAW, which is what he said he was looking for.

  78. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 4:00 pm #

    arr my comment is in moderation. Much more fun over at Weasel Zippers today the same repeated hysterics and paranoid rantings

    http://weaselzippers.us/2011/01/26/hawaii-dem-gov-neil-abercrombie-admits-there-are-no-obama-birth-records-in-his-state/#comment-37561

    Have a blast!

  79. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    The birther klan wants to take Abercrombies statement out of context and then add their own meaning to it. That’ all they’re doing

  80. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 4:03 pm #

    Freddy N.: I expect if there was an official long form birth certificate on file, he would have said that.

    shouldawouldacoulda

    Freddy N.: That’s a strange way to describe an official document, and the routine matter of locating it in a file.

    Not strange at all. Seems pretty straight forward to me. There it is.

    Freddy N.: Abercrombie needs to clarify his statements.

    No he doesn’t.

    Now OTOH, I understand that YOU want him to say what you need him to say…. but that is your need, not his.

    Freddy N.: It’s also strange Obama refused to allow his family friend to settle the matter once and for all.

    Except, of course, that Obama’s refusal exists only in your mind. There’s nothing that would suggest that Obama did so, other than in your shouldawouldacoulda inventive reasoning.

    Freddy N.:to settle the matter once and for all.

    The matter was settled once and for all two years ago.

    Get over it.

    Freddy N.: Abercrombie’s office stated Obama’s lack of consent was why the Governor ended his quest:A privacy law that shields birth certificates has prompted Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie to abandon efforts to dispel claims that President Barack Obama was born outside Hawaii, his office says.State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual’s birth documentation without the person’s consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said Friday.

    You see that is your problem right there in a nutshell.

    The Governor says he cannot release without consent, and you therefore conclude that not only did Abercrombie go fishing for consent but was refused. It never occurred to you that Government officials aren’t allowed to go fishing for consent in that manner? That not having a consent form isn’t the same as being refused consent?

    That is what is known as using your confirmation bias to draw a conclusion arising from speculation.

  81. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 4:05 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    You say it doesn’t matter, yet asking questions about it provokes you to fits of hysteria.

    You are confusing hysteria with laughter

  82. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 4:05 pm #

    With Obama’s permission Hawaii could release certified copies of what is actually on file. See HRS §338-13.

  83. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    Freddy N.: “””Abercrombie’s office stated Obama’s lack of consent was why the Governor ended his quest:A privacy law that shields birth certificates has prompted Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie to abandon efforts to dispel claims that President Barack Obama was born outside Hawaii, his office says.State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual’s birth documentation without the person’s consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said Friday.”””

    You see that is your problem right there in a nutshell.

    The Governor says he cannot release without consent, and you therefore conclude that not only did Abercrombie go fishing for consent but was refused. It never occurred to you that Government officials aren’t allowed to go fishing for consent in that manner? That not having a consent form isn’t the same as being refused consent?

    That is what is known as using your confirmation bias to draw a conclusion arising from speculation.

  84. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    Freddy N.: With Obama’s permission Hawaii could release certified copies of what is actually on file. See HRS §338-13.

    Even if that was true, which it isn’t, why would he?

  85. avatar
    Rickey January 26, 2011 at 4:07 pm #

    Freddy N.: Abercrombie said “It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …”That’s a strange way to describe an official document, and the routine matter of locating it in a file.

    Nothing strange about it at all. Abercrombie wasn’t looking for the birth certificate, because he knew that he has no authority to release it. He was looking for other records, such as contemporaneous logs, which Hawaii’s privacy law might permit him to release. He apparently found something (and he never refers to it as an “official document,” so once again your are putting words in his mouth), but whatever it was he was advised by his AG that he cannot release it.

    It’s also strange Obama refused to allow his family friend to settle the matter once and for all.

    It is? You have evidence that Abercrombie has asked Obama for his consent to release the birth certificate, and Obama has refused? Please provide your evidence.

    The reality is that Abercrombie knows that Obama has more important things to do than satisfy the idle curiosity of the likes of you.

  86. avatar
    gorefan January 26, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    Freddy N.: It’s also strange Obama refused to allow his family friend to settle the matter once and for all.

    Really, It seems to me that he is the only willing to following the law. Everyone else seems to want to make a special exception for Barack Obama II.

  87. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 4:11 pm #

    “You have evidence that Abercrombie has asked Obama for his consent to release the birth certificate, and Obama has refused”

    Abercrombie is friend of Obama’s. I don’t, however, think he asked and was refused. I think he was told to drop it.

    “The reality is that Abercrombie knows that Obama has more important things to do”

    Like golf, and go on vacation?

  88. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 4:17 pm #

    Daniel: It never occurred to you that Government officials aren’t allowed to go fishing for consent in that manner? That not having a consent form isn’t the same as being refused consent?That is what is known as using your confirmation bias to draw a conclusion arising from speculation.

    It never occurred to you people make phone calls? Abercrombie is a friend of Obama’s, he knew Obama Sr. If Obama wanted to consent to further investigation, he would have it. Quit pretending otherwise.

  89. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 4:30 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    It never occurred to you people make phone calls? Abercrombie is a friend of Obama’s, he knew Obama Sr. If Obama wanted to consent to further investigation, he would have it. Quit pretending otherwise.

    Would it shock you to know that he spends zero amount of time worrying about what the birther klan says? He’s been the president for more than two years, and he will be running for reelection in 2012 regardless of what the birther klan says

  90. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    Freddy N.: Like golf, and go on vacation?

    Nice b.s. way of moving the goalposts, little birther.

    Which president had the most vacations in U.S. history beating out Ronald Reagan’s record?

    Need a hint, birther genius?

    Who takes your place here when you get all huffy and mad and return to mom’s basement?

    Unrelated to president’s but drunken Boehner may have a golfing addiction or at least an addiction to booze and lobbyists’ money:

    Congressional sources say that Boehner likes to knock off early, and that seems to square with his record, which reveals a real passion — for the links. He once went on 180 junkets in six years, most of them golf trips, and reportedly copped to playing 100 rounds a year at a time when he was collecting a six-figure salary, paid for by the U.S. taxpayer, to serve in Congress. His political action committee spent almost $83,000 on golf events in 2009, and over the past 18 months he has run up a $67,000 tab at the Ritz-Carlton golf resort in Naples, Florida. He flew on a corporate jet 45 times between 2000 and 2007, and took at least 41 other corporate-sponsored trips in the past decade.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-the-crying-shame-of-john-boehner-20110105?page=2

  91. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Would it shock you to know that he spends zero amount of time worrying about what the birther klan says? He’s been the president for more than two years, and he will be running for reelection in 2012 regardless of what the birther klan says

    He seems to be worried enough about something not give his friend permission to settle the matter once and for all.

  92. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 4:38 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    He seems to be worried enough about something not give his friend permission to settle the matter once and for all.

    How do you know?

    You’re making up crap of which you have absolutely no specific knowledge.

    Typical birther stupidity. No wonder people laugh at these deranged lunatics.

  93. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    Again, you have been asked to provide proof of that claim and have failed to rise to the challenge. That’s a claim that exists in your mind only.

  94. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    There’s no need to get hysterical, Majority Will. You asserted Obama is so busy he hasn’t the time to take a phone call from Abercrombie, a personal friend. Obviously, given the amount of golfing and vacationing he does, that’s not the case.

  95. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 4:45 pm #

    Majority Will:
    How do you know?You’re making up crap of which you have absolutely no specific knowledge.Typical birther stupidity. No wonder people laugh at these deranged lunatics.

    You’re the deranged one. Why so emotional about this?

  96. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 4:46 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    He seems to be worried enough about something not give his friend permission to settle the matter once and for all.

    What he’s more worried about is that the birther klan will do with whatever he releases what they did to what he did release – ALTER IT AND CLAIM IT WAS FORGED BY THE PRESIDENT. He’s complied with all laws, he’s been president for more than two years, he will be running for reelection, and he doesn’t care what the birther klan thinks. Hopefully, he will win reelection so we can see to see what depths of stupidity and mental illness the birther klan are capable of sinking to given another 4 years of President Obama. Will they check into the loony bin? Will they leave the country? Will they commit mass suicide? Stay tuned, folks.

  97. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    There’s no need to get so emotional. I’m not a birther, or pusillanimous.
    Abercrombie chose to embark on a quest to dispell all doubts about Obama’s birth, and announced he was doing so to the press. Then Abercrombie made a number of odd statements, which seem to contradict the sworn testimony of other state officials, and raised more questions. Then Abercrombie announced he was giving up, because Obama chose not to give his family friend permission to resolve things. The end result is that questions about Obama’s birth documentation are more legitimate than ever.

    You are a birther and completed blinded by confirmation bias, delusions and denial.

    You come come here and crap on the carpet from time to time with the EXACT same birther bullsh!t and not one shred of evidence or credibility.

    You have zero evidence of anything other than your paranoia and bizarre search for any minutiae, no matter how irrelevant, to prove your birtherness. They are only “doubts” (read: paranoid delusions) to a fringe of hate driven and politically and bigotry motivated un-American scum.

    You are 100% birther through and through.

    You also obviously suffer from the same problems as most birthers.

    You make completely unsubstantiated inferences from crap you have skimmed from birther cesspools on the web.

    That is why we laugh at and pity most birthers.

  98. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    “You are a birther”

    I’m not a birther. I lack your emotional investment in this.

    “You have zero evidence of anything”

    Now that Abercrombie has cast doubt on Fukino’s statement, you have zero evidence of anything.

    “a fringe of hate driven and politically and bigotry motivated un-American scum.”

    You need to calm down. You’re ranting like a crazy person.

    “You make completely unsubstantiated inferences from crap you have skimmed from birther cesspools on the web.”

    I quoted Abercrombie and his staff.

  99. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    Freddy N.: There’s no need to get hysterical, Majority Will. You asserted Obama is so busy he hasn’t the time to take a phone call from Abercrombie, a personal friend. Obviously, given the amount of golfing and vacationing he does, that’s not the case.

    Screw you, birther scum bag.

    I asserted nothing. You’re being a douche bag. I said you have ZERO evidence of anything but your own paranoid delusions.

    “Obviously, given the amount of golfing and vacationing he does, that’s not the case.”

    Obviously, you have no idea WTF you’re babbling about.

    Idiot.

  100. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    HAHAHAHA And this story dies quickly

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/26/celebrity-journalist-says-he-never-talked-hawaii-governor-obama-birth/

    Mike Evans says he never talked to Abercrombie about the birth certificate

  101. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    The president is putting his faith in the American people, that they’re smart enough and that they’re sane enough to see through all the birther lies, propaganda, hatred, and delusions. And if the American people don’t, which I seriously doubt, then we are in big trouble as a nation. When we allow propagandists to dictate to the American people what to believe, rather than the facts and the law, we have a serious problem

  102. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): HAHAHAHA And this story dies quicklyhttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/26/celebrity-journalist-says-he-never-talked-hawaii-governor-obama-birth/Mike Evans says he never talked to Abercrombie about the birth certificate

    lmao. Now where’s charo?

  103. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    What he’s more worried about

    Did he tell you that?

  104. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    The reason Obama won’t consent to further investigation is that he hates YOU personally. And I can see why he might.

  105. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Did he tell you that?

    No, it’s just the result of something the birther klan does not have – common sense.

  106. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Screw you, birther scum bag.I asserted nothing. You’re being a douche bag. I said you have ZERO evidence of anything but your own paranoid delusions.“Obviously, given the amount of golfing and vacationing he does, that’s not the case.”Obviously, you have no idea WTF you’re babbling about.Idiot.

    If someone pointing out Obama enjoys golf and taking vacations provokes that much irrational hostility, you should seek help, before you harm yourself and/or others.

  107. avatar
    Zixi of Ix January 26, 2011 at 5:18 pm #

    Freddy N.: It’s also strange Obama refused to allow his family friend to settle the matter once and for all.

    Is it? I don’t think its strange at all. If anything, I think Obama has shown a tremendous level of restraint in the face of birther lies and slime.

    If I were Obama, it would be a cold day in Hell before I allowed anyone to do anything on my behalf with regard to the birthers.

    Obama provided a COLB, but it stopped nothing. All it did was empower “experts” like Techdude and Polarik and fed the birther need for anything negative, regardless of how untrue it was.

    Birthers who have spent their time saying that his mother wasn’t really his mother, and that his father wasn’t really his father, or that his grandfather was his father, or that Frank Davis was his father, or that Malcolm X was his father…. or any one of dozens of cock-and-bull stories made up from thin air deserve nothing. They aren’t worthy of being acknowledged, much less being catered to.

    If I were Obama, I’d tell them all to take a flying leap. And if asked, Obama should make a point of telling the American public just what the birthers, enabled by the GOP, have been saying about his family. As I’ve said before, I’m not a Democrat or an Obama supporter. But attacking a person’s parents and family is vile and disgusting, and while I don’t support Obama, I can’t support any part of the GOP which encourages or allows such conduct.

    Birthers need to be doing soul searching over what compelled them to say such vile, nasty lies about people with zero evidence to back it up. Even the birthers who haven’t personally stooped so low need to ask themselves why they haven’t publicly disassociated themselves from those who choose to wallow in the slop.

    At the end of the day, why in the world would Obama want to prove anything to this motley collection of liars, slanderers, and foul-mouthed garbage peddlers?

  108. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    πŸ™‚ Couldn’t have said that better myself, and I have a reputation for saying those kinds of things about the birther klan

  109. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 5:42 pm #

    “that his father wasn’t really his father”

    I suspect that’s what he’s concealing. Given what we know, and how he’s presented himself, it’s entirely in bounds to want to verify who his father really was.

  110. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 5:51 pm #

    Freddy N.: “that his father wasn’t really his father”I suspect that’s what he’s concealing. Given what we know, and how he’s presented himself, it’s entirely in bounds to want to verify who his father really was.

    Further stupidity holds no bounds. Maybe he’s his own father and the first successful human clone or the vampire lestat

  111. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 5:51 pm #

    Freddy N.: “that his father wasn’t really his father”I suspect that’s what he’s concealing. Given what we know, and how he’s presented himself, it’s entirely in bounds to want to verify who his father really was.

    Birther stupidity holds no bounds. Maybe he’s his own father and the first successful human clone or the vampire lestat

  112. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 5:57 pm #

    Freddy N.: I think he was told to drop it.

    shouldawouldacoulda

    Freddy N.:
    “The reality is that Abercrombie knows that Obama has more important things to do”

    Like golf, and go on vacation?

    Like run a country.

    Or would you like him to spend all his time dealing with birthers, holocaust deniers, moon landing hoaxers, and flat earthers?

  113. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 5:57 pm #

    Obama Sr. not being his biological father is the most logical explanation of his refusal to allow Abercrombie to release the birth documents on file.

  114. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 5:58 pm #

    Daniel:
    shouldawouldacoulda
    Like run a country.Or would you like him to spend all his time dealing with birthers, holocaust deniers, moon landing hoaxers, and flat earthers?

    Abercrombie isn’t a “birther”, he’s a family friend, and the Governor of Hawaii.

  115. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 5:59 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    It never occurred to you people make phone calls? Abercrombie is a friend of Obama’s, he knew Obama Sr. If Obama wanted to consent to further investigation, he would have it. Quit pretending otherwise.

    shouldawouldacoulda

  116. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 6:01 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Abercrombie isn’t a “birther”, he’s a family friend, and the Governor of Hawaii.

    Exactly. He’s Governor of Hawaii, and required to follow the law, and whatever department procedures are in place.

    He’s not going to cave to birther delusions just because you wanna.

    You lost the election, fair and square, get over it.

  117. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 26, 2011 at 6:08 pm #

    @Freddy N.

    I am certain without a shadow of a doubt that birthers would not shut up about Obama’s father even if Obama Sr. were exhumed and DNA comparisons were done with the President. So this little excursion with Hawaiian birth records is a waste of time.

    Just to point out the disingenuous position of the birthers, if birth records showed some other father, birthers would believe it; however, it they showed Obama Sr. they would still doubt.

    That is, evidence means nothing to birthers.

  118. avatar
    Judge Mental January 26, 2011 at 6:16 pm #

    Freddy N.: “that his father wasn’t really his father”I suspect that’s what he’s concealing. Given what we know, and how he’s presented himself, it’s entirely in bounds to want to verify who his father really was.

    Ok……here’s your chance to show that you have the comprehension and deduction skills that you seem to think so many others lack.

    Explain to this board something of relevance to the view you express above…..anything at all…. that you “know” as opposed to “make up in your head” and tell us exactly why and how it should influence the way in which a reasonable person ought to approach believing or disbelieving that his father is exactly who his COLB specifies is his father.

  119. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    Update on MIke Evans (from earlier this morning):

    http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/DENVER-CO/KHOW-AM/01262011PETE8A.mp3

    My take on Mike Evans:

    He reads the paper and claims that he sees that the two hospitals (Q & K) have no record of the birth certificate. He remembers the last time he saw N. Abercrombie and how he was adamant to get rid of the birth certificate controversy once and for all when he became Governor. He calls Abercrombie’s office and is not able to speak to the Governor so he leaves his name and number. With the idea in his head that he goes on the radio show and completely bungles. He didn’t actually believe that he said he spoke to the Governor’s office and said that Neil told him blaa blaa… until he hears himself and how it could be interpreted that way. This clip is the first time Evans hears what he actually said. I think he was on Fox later. Jerome Corsi comes in at the end of the clip.

    You really have to listen to the clip, even though it is clearly a birther radio host and it may hurt the sensibilities of some, to understand Mike Evans. He didn’t know anything about anything until he read whatever he read in the papers. I don’t believe the paper said what he believes, but HE clearly believes he saw it. I am already seeing a few people claim he was told to shut up. He was not told to shut up. Mike Evans is…. clueless. If and when Neil Abercromobie ever talks to him again, that will be quite the story. But this story does continue the birther controversy, no doubt.

  120. avatar
    Mike January 26, 2011 at 6:20 pm #

    The Magic M: […]“Christian name” does not refer to the Christian religion at all but is an outdated way of saying “first name” or “given name”

    I’m a manager of about a dozen administrators for a social services department for an English local govt authority, and I have to frequently remind some of my older staff about not using “Christian name” as a synonym for “forename”; up until a few years ago, it was pretty common here.

  121. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 6:21 pm #

    Freddy, Baby: Here’s the really atsounding thing for you to ponder. You believe #44, the one who actually released an official birth document is hiding something. Can you imagine what the other 43, who released doodly-squat, were hiding?

  122. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: @Freddy N.
    I am certain without a shadow of a doubt that birthers would not shut up about Obama’s father even if Obama Sr. were exhumed and DNA comparisons were done with the President. So this little excursion with Hawaiian birth records is a waste of time.
    Just to point out the disingenuous position of the birthers, if birth records showed some other father, birthers would believe it; however, it they showed Obama Sr. they would still doubt.
    That is, evidence means nothing to birthers.

    I’m not a birther. Abercrombie’s “excursion” into the birth records has implications beyond Obama, it’s opened up the possibility Fukino committed perjury.

  123. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    charo: Update on MIke Evans (from earlier this morning):http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/DENVER-CO/KHOW-AM/01262011PETE8A.mp3My take on Mike Evans:He reads the paper and claims that he sees that the two hospitals (Q & K) have no record of the birth certificate.He remembers the last time he saw N. Abercrombie and how he was adamant to get rid of the birth certificate controversy once and for all when he became Governor.He calls Abercrombie’s office and is not able to speak to the Governor so he leaves his name and number.With the idea in his head that he goes on the radio show and completely bungles.He didn’t actually believe that he said he spoke to the Governor’s office and said that Neil told him blaa blaa…until he hears himself and how it could be interpreted that way.This clip is the first time Evans hears what he actually said. I think he was on Fox later.Jerome Corsi comes in at the end of the clip.
    You really have to listen to the clip, even though it is clearly a birther radio host and it may hurt the sensibilities of some, to understand Mike Evans.He didn’t know anything about anything until he read whatever he read in the papers.I don’t believe the paper said what he believes, but HE clearly believes he saw it.I am already seeing a few people claim he was told to shut up.He was not told to shut up.Mike Evans is…. clueless.If and when Neil Abercromobie ever talks to him again, that will be quite the story. But this story does continue the birther controversy, no doubt.

    Charo you’re a bit behind. Evans came out today and said he never really spoke to Neil Abercrombie about the birth certificate and he misspoke. Meaning, he lied.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/26/celebrity-journalist-says-he-never-talked-hawaii-governor-obama-birth/

  124. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    I’m not a birther. Abercrombie’s “excursion” into the birth records has implications beyond Obama, it’s opened up the possibility Fukino committed perjury.

    The always popular “I’m not a birther” mantra. You’re not a birther you just play one on tv right? You just use all their talking points but clearly you don’t really believe them. Abercrombie’s excursion has no implications. Never once did Abercrombie say he was going to look for the long form or release the long form this is something birthers made up. He never said he couldn’t find the long form. Another made up claim by birthers.

  125. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Charo you’re a bit behind.Evans came out today and said he never really spoke to Neil Abercrombie about the birth certificate and he misspoke.Meaning, he lied.http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/26/celebrity-journalist-says-he-never-talked-hawaii-governor-obama-birth/

    And a big “I told you so” for the follish charo.

  126. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    Freddy N.: I quoted Abercrombie and his staff.

    Noooooooooo……

    You took what he said, and interpolated what you wanted it to mean through the filter of your confirmation bias.

    That’s the only way you can get to “Obama refused” from “I don’t have permission”

  127. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    Judge Mental:
    Ok……here’s your chance to show that you have the comprehension and deduction skills that you seem to think so many others lack.
    Explain to this board something of relevance to the view you express above…..anything at all…. that you “know” as opposed to “make up in your head” and tell us exactly why and how it should influence the way in which a reasonable person ought to approach believing or disbelieving that his father is exactly who his COLB specifies is his father.

    The father listed on my “Certificate of Live Birth” isn’t my biological father.

    Given Obama’s refusal to cooperate with Abercrombie’s attempt to resolve this matter, along with Abercrombie’s ambiguous statements, skepticism is not unwarranted.

  128. avatar
    Zixi of Ix January 26, 2011 at 6:30 pm #

    Freddy N.: “that his father wasn’t really his father”I suspect that’s what he’s concealing. Given what we know, and how he’s presented himself, it’s entirely in bounds to want to verify who his father really was.

    No, no it isn’t “in bounds”. Not at all.

    I can’t begin to tell you how bad it sounds when birthers ask that sort of question. His father is the man whose name is on his COLB. Legally, that’s his father. Legally, that’s all you’re entitled to.

    Morally, that’s all you’re entitled to (if that).

    We don’t hold people responsible for the actions of their parents. We don’t hold the marital or political status of the parent against the child. That isn’t the way we do things in the United States. It’s morally wrong to hold a child responsible for the actions of their parents.

    Thomas Paine and Alexander Hamilton were born out of wedlock. History doesn’t hold that against them.

    Leslie Lynch King, Sr. was an abusive drunkard who threatened to kill his wife and newborn son with a butcher knife. His wife collected up her 16 day old son, walked out, and in the end, divorced her husband. He never paid child support for his son, and only saw the child once more in his lifetime.

    Yet, we never held any of that against the son and no one thought that the Senior King’s history disqualified the son from becoming the 38th president.

    So I have to ask… what’s different about Obama that you feel we should hold him responsible for his parent’s behavior when we haven’t done so in the past?

    Birthers who consider themselves de Vattellists would say that Obama Senior means that Barrack Obama could never (legally) be president.

    So what do Birthers have to gain by trashing Obama’s family and denying that the man listed on his COLB is his father?

    Is it all in the trashing, or is there an actual point?

  129. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 6:31 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): HAHAHAHA And this story dies quicklyhttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/26/celebrity-journalist-says-he-never-talked-hawaii-governor-obama-birth/Mike Evans says he never talked to Abercrombie about the birth certificate

    charo: Update on MIke Evans (from earlier this morning):http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/DENVER-CO/KHOW-AM/01262011PETE8A.mp3My take on Mike Evans:He reads the paper and claims that he sees that the two hospitals (Q & K) have no record of the birth certificate.He remembers the last time he saw N. Abercrombie and how he was adamant to get rid of the birth certificate controversy once and for all when he became Governor.He calls Abercrombie’s office and is not able to speak to the Governor so he leaves his name and number.With the idea in his head that he goes on the radio show and completely bungles.He didn’t actually believe that he said he spoke to the Governor’s office and said that Neil told him blaa blaa…until he hears himself and how it could be interpreted that way.This clip is the first time Evans hears what he actually said. I think he was on Fox later.Jerome Corsi comes in at the end of the clip.
    You really have to listen to the clip, even though it is clearly a birther radio host and it may hurt the sensibilities of some, to understand Mike Evans.He didn’t know anything about anything until he read whatever he read in the papers.I don’t believe the paper said what he believes, but HE clearly believes he saw it.I am already seeing a few people claim he was told to shut up.He was not told to shut up.Mike Evans is…. clueless.If and when Neil Abercromobie ever talks to him again, that will be quite the story. But this story does continue the birther controversy, no doubt.

    Here’s my take – Evans only saw the WND story article or one of the papers that foolishly used the WND article as a baseline and was gullible enough to think it was an actual legit breaking news story, so he wanted to “get in on the action” and come across as if he was an “insider” and “part of the story”. He said what he said not by mistake, but because he wanted to parlay his prior connections to knowing Abercromibe into making himself look “big” here.

    He was caught off guard when this got picked up and his story questioned, because neither his claims nor WND’s hold water to any of the actual statements of record. Now he’s sheepishly trying to back-peddle.

  130. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    I’m not a birther. Abercrombie’s “excursion” into the birth records has implications beyond Obama, it’s opened up the possibility Fukino committed perjury.

    Oh, you are

    You most definitely are

    You quack just like a duck

  131. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    Freddy N.: The father listed on my “Certificate of Live Birth” isn’t my biological father.

    Given Obama’s refusal to cooperate with Abercrombie’s attempt to resolve this matter, along with Abercrombie’s ambiguous statements, skepticism is not unwarranted.

    Given the overwhelming preponderance of actual evidence and statements that all reinforce the same basic premise that he was born in Honolulu, HI in 1961, skepticism is not warranted either.

  132. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 6:34 pm #

    charo: Update on MIke Evans (from earlier this morning):
    http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/DENVER-CO/KHOW-AM/01262011PETE8A.mp3
    My take on Mike Evans

    Thanks for posting this

    Someone needs to tell Mr Evans that hospitals don’t keep birth certificates; they just fill the forms out and send them to DOH. It also seems he wasn’t really that close to the Governor. It’s not clear that he has spoken with him since the inauguration and all he got was some low-level person in the office. It’s pretty shoddy of him to have said “Neil said” as he did in the original interview when Neil didn’t say squat to him.

  133. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 6:35 pm #

    Freddy N.: Given Obama’s refusal to cooperate with Abercrombie’s attempt to resolve this matter,

    Do you think constant repeating of your unwarranted conclusion drawn from supposition will somehow alter space and time and turn it into truth?

  134. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    The father listed on my “Certificate of Live Birth” isn’t my biological father.Given Obama’s refusal to cooperate with Abercrombie’s attempt to resolve this matter, along with Abercrombie’s ambiguous statements, skepticism is not unwarranted.

    Was your certificate revised or is that the father your mother had listed?

  135. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    Freddy N.: I’m not a birther. Abercrombie’s “excursion” into the birth records has implications beyond Obama, it’s opened up the possibility Fukino committed perjury.

    What would be the advantage or reason for Fukino to commit perjury? Where is the motivation there? To believe such things requires one to buy into such a vast and far reaching conspiracy that the whole notion quickly becomes ludicrous.

    And yes, you are most definitely a birther. Everything you’ve said is typical birther babble.

    You might not like the stink of the Birther title…but when the shoe fits…

  136. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 6:38 pm #

    Zixi of Ix: I can’t speak to the motivations of birthers, I’m not a birther. I’m not an Obama worshipper, either, thus I think it would be important if we learned the autobiography and identity he’s presented were, to a considerable extent, fraudulent.

  137. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 6:39 pm #

    Freddy N.: I’m not a birther. Abercrombie’s “excursion” into the birth records has implications beyond Obama, it’s opened up the possibility Fukino committed perjury.

    Do you live in Hawaii? If not, why do you care? I mean, do you follow legislative hearings in all 50 states looking to see if anyone lied? Can you make a living from that?

  138. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Was your certificate revised or is that the father your mother had listed?

    I was adopted, so neither of the parents listed on my “Certificate of Live Birth” are my biological parents.

  139. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 6:44 pm #

    G:
    What would be the advantage or reason for Fukino to commit perjury?Where is the motivation there?To believe such things requires one to buy into such a vast and far reaching conspiracy that the whole notion quickly becomes ludicrous.And yes, you are most definitely a birther.Everything you’ve said is typical birther babble.You might not like the stink of the Birther title…but when the shoe fits…

    It wouldn’t take a vast conspiracy at all. Everyone involved is sympathetic. Lots of information about Obama that has come out about other presidents and presidential candidates has remained suppressed. We know George Bush’s Yale grades, for example. In contrast, it remains unclear even what classes Obama took at Columbia.

  140. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    Freddy N.: I’m not an Obama worshipper, either, thus I think it would be important if we learned the autobiography and identity he’s presented were, to a considerable extent, fraudulent.

    I would put “Who’s your Daddy?” in the realm of gossip rather than historical inquiry. There were rumors (likely false) that Lincoln Sr. was not Abe’s biological father. But suppose they were true. Would that diminish Lincoln’s greatness? Not a bit.

    You guys keep acting as though Obama is still a candidate. He’s the President. He gets judged on what he does in office. End of story.

  141. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 6:52 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Charo you’re a bit behind.Evans came out today and said he never really spoke to Neil Abercrombie about the birth certificate and he misspoke.Meaning, he lied.http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/26/celebrity-journalist-says-he-never-talked-hawaii-governor-obama-birth/

    This interview is the earliest one. You’ll get a better picture if you listen to it.

  142. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 6:53 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Charo you’re a bit behind.Evans came out today and said he never really spoke to Neil Abercrombie about the birth certificate and he misspoke.Meaning, he lied.http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/26/celebrity-journalist-says-he-never-talked-hawaii-governor-obama-birth/

    This interview is the earliest one. You’ll get a better picture if you listen to it.

    G: Here’s my take – Evans only saw the WND story article or one of the papers that foolishly used the WND article as a baseline and was gullible enough to think it was an actual legit breaking news story, so he wanted to “get in on the action” and come across as if he was an “insider” and “part of the story”.He said what he said not by mistake, but because he wanted to parlay his prior connections to knowing Abercromibe into making himself look “big” here.He was caught off guard when this got picked up and his story questioned, because neither his claims nor WND’s hold water to any of the actual statements of record.Now he’s sheepishly trying to back-peddle.

    He didn’t even know who Jerome Corsi was (or Stanley Dunham for that matter). He was definitely caught off guard. For him to have no idea of how this story would escalate shows his gullibility, lack of sophistication, whatever you want to call it. Did you listen to the clip?

  143. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 6:55 pm #

    charo-I hate to say I told you so (actually I love it!). I have a very good b.s. detector. That’s why I’m not a birther.

  144. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 6:55 pm #

    Scientist:.He’s the President.He gets judged on what he does in office.End of story.

    If you thought about it for a moment, you would realize what a bizarre notion that is.

  145. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 6:55 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    I was adopted, so neither of the parents listed on my “Certificate of Live Birth” are my biological parents.

    Oh so i guess that solves it you can’t run for President

  146. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 6:57 pm #

    charo:
    This interview is the earliest one.You’ll get a better picture if you listen to it.

    And none of it is relevant since he retracted his story and said he never talked with Neil. He lied about the story made it up off of birther stories. So once again I’ll ask you for saying you’re no longer a birther after reading the state department memos why is it you seem to jump on and believe every birther story that comes along?

  147. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 6:59 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    It wouldn’t take a vast conspiracy at all. Everyone involved is sympathetic. Lots of information about Obama that has come out about other presidents and presidential candidates has remained suppressed. We know George Bush’s Yale grades, for example. In contrast, it remains unclear even what classes Obama took at Columbia.

    We only know George Bush’s grades because someone leaked them. George Bush didn’t release them to the public

  148. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 6:59 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    I was adopted, so neither of the parents listed on my “Certificate of Live Birth” are my biological parents.

    Really? You don’t say?

    So tell me, Freddy, just for grins….

    What state issues a COLB for an adopted child, lists his adopted parents, and gives no indication on it that they are not his biological parents?

    Go ahead, tell me….. I’m positively giddy with anticipation to hear what crap you come up with.

  149. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

    Scientist: charo-I hate to say I told you so (actually I love it!).I have a very good b.s. detector.That’s why I’m not a birther.

    Yeah, after more than two and a half years of birther BS, it’s just about second nature with those who choose to use common sense.

  150. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    Scientist:
    Thanks for posting thisSomeone needs to tell Mr Evans that hospitals don’t keep birth certificates; they just fill the forms out and send them to DOH.It also seems he wasn’t really that close to the Governor.It’s not clear that he has spoken with him since the inauguration and all he got was some low-level person in the office.It’s pretty shoddy of him to have said “Neil said” as he did in the original interview when Neil didn’t say squat to him.

    I think they were a little above low level acquaintances, but not old friends in the sense of many shared experiences through the years. I think Mike Evans is pretty well horrified now. Because he is about 62 years and has been on the radio for so long with no apparent controversies prior to now, I tend to think he was simply clueless about what he did.

  151. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:03 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    And none of it is relevant since he retracted his story and said he never talked with Neil.He lied about the story made it up off of birther stories.So once again I’ll ask you for saying you’re no longer a birther after reading the state department memos why is it you seem to jump on and believe every birther story that comes along?

    Why is this site here? Is it for your own personal hobby to talk to people? The story was relevant to this blog.

  152. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    charo: I tend to think he was simply clueless

    Oh so he’s a birther then….

  153. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    Freddy N.: If you thought about it for a moment, you would realize what a bizarre notion that is.

    I’m on 7 minutes now and it still seems quite sensible. Apparently, Darrell issa feels the same way, siince he has said that he will not look into anything Obama did before he took office.

  154. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    charo:
    Why is this site here?Is it for your own personal hobby to talk to people?The story was relevant to this blog.

    That still doesn’t explain why you keep believing random birther stories for not being a birther anymore

  155. avatar
    misha January 26, 2011 at 7:05 pm #

    Freddy N.: I was adopted, so neither of the parents listed on my “Certificate of Live Birth” are my biological parents.

    Yeah, I can tell you were raised by a pack of wolves.

  156. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:06 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    And none of it is relevant since he retracted his story and said he never talked with Neil.He lied about the story made it up off of birther stories.So once again I’ll ask you for saying you’re no longer a birther after reading the state department memos why is it you seem to jump on and believe every birther story that comes along?

    Why is this site here? Is it for your own personal hobby to talk to people? The story was relevant to this blog.

    Scientist: charo-I hate to say I told you so (actually I love it!).I have a very good b.s. detector.That’s why I’m not a birther.

    Told me so about what? I wanted to wait to see if either Evans or the Governor made a statement. I stated that I e-mailed Mike Evans at the radio station to explain his comments.

  157. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    That’s the procedure in Washington state.

  158. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    That still doesn’t explain why you keep believing random birther stories for not being a birther anymore

    Point out where I said I believe it or didn’t believe it.

  159. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    charo, all that glitters is not gold; some of it is foll’s gold, and when it comes to this issue, all of it is

  160. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 7:08 pm #

    Freddy N.: It wouldn’t take a vast conspiracy at all. Everyone involved is sympathetic. Lots of information about Obama that has come out about other presidents and presidential candidates has remained suppressed. We know George Bush’s Yale grades, for example. In contrast, it remains unclear even what classes Obama took at Columbia.

    You realize that quite a few of these people, such as Lingle and Fukino were Republicans, right? If they had info that could have helped McCain win, they wouldn’t have hesitated to use it.

    The “sympathetic” argument is just weak conspiracy talk nonsense, as “sympathy” doesn’t trump law or regulations. Heck, by that definition Ambercromie is certainly “sympathetic”, yet has had to learn and accept that even his “powers” as Governor do not allow him to trump privacy laws.

    You’re GWB arguments only work against you.

    For one, on an apples-to-apples comparison you need to stick to birth certificates being released for relevance here. That’s really the ONLY key document that would address issues towards the NBC requirement for POTUS.

    GWB never released his birth certificate. In fact, NO PRIOR candidate OTHER THAN OBAMA ever did.

    So, on just an apples-to-apples comparison, your argument fails miserably and only highlights that you wish to impose a standard on one individual (Obama), which never applied to ANY other person prior to that. It is both a hypocritical and suspect stance to take.

    Furthermore, what relevance do George Bush’s Yale grades have to do with his eligibility to be POTUS? Just because that info came out into the public, doesn’t mean it HAD to.

    That is where you fail to see the difference. If GWB’s school records weren’t made public and he refused to release them, he would fully be within his right to do so and it wouldn’t make any difference to his eligibility at all. Nor could the school just decide to release that info on their own – privacy laws and all.

    So, what is your real motivation here, Freddy N? You seem to not like being called a Birther, yet you are about as standard Birther boilerplate as it gets.

    This isn’t your first time here at this site, either. You’ve spent an awful lot of time and effort coming here and frantically throwing about basic birther nonsense over and over again that your pattern is clear.

    Based on your own actions and statements, you’ve confirmed that not only are you a hard-core birther, but one who is extremely emotionally invested in being one.

    So let’s get to the truth – what is “different” about Obama that so scares you that is different from EVERY other candidate or president before him? Why do you need to try to hide behind standards that you wish to apply to Obama and no other previous president?

  161. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:12 pm #

    charo:
    Point out where I said I believe it or didn’t believe it.

    You told people not to dismiss it so quickly because it might be true.

  162. avatar
    Steve January 26, 2011 at 7:13 pm #

    http://www.wnd.com/?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104165&EmbedC=10f1a77c-d469-4380-b4d0-94d567dbbca8

    Molotov Mitchell saying that if it’s on the Internet, it must be true.
    Anyone care to poke holes in his logic?

  163. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 7:14 pm #

    Freddy N.: That’s the procedure in Washington state.

    OK just so we’re clear here, and able to make sure you can’t weasel out later, you’re saying that in Washington State…

    A COLB is issued to an adopted child, listing the child’s adopted parents, with no indication, whatsoever, that those parents are adoptive and not biological.

    Is that what you are saying, Freddy?

  164. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:20 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    You told people not to dismiss it so quickly because it might be true.

    You are RIGHT about me! I am a plant for Jerome Corsi… Actually I am him!

  165. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 7:21 pm #

    charo: Told me so about what? I wanted to wait to see if either Evans or the Governor made a statement. I stated that I e-mailed Mike Evans at the radio station to explain his comments

    My b.s. detector went off big time when I heard the original piece,so I really didn’t have to hear more.

    You are letting Evans off lightly by calling him clueless. Play the original interview again. He says, “Neil said’ and “Neil told me”. Yet he never spoke to neil about this. That isn’t clueless, that’s lying. I am willing to believe he did it for attention, rather than political motives-in fact my original statement was that it was a ratings stunt-but either way, he owes the Governor and all his listeners a HUGE apology, and I haven’t seen one yet.

  166. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    charo: He didn’t even know who Jerome Corsi was (or Stanley Dunham for that matter). He was definitely caught off guard. For him to have no idea of how this story would escalate shows his gullibility, lack of sophistication, whatever you want to call it. Did you listen to the clip?

    Charo, I fail to see what you are arguing or defending here. I have never said that Evans was a Birther. Nor have I said (nor even implied) that he knows who Corsi is or even WND’s reputation.

    Read my points again. It seems you are trying to argue against nothing here. My “theory” on him is pretty much what you just said too:

    – Evans was gullible and read some story, not realizing that it wasn’t true.
    – He tried to “make himself” part of the story by puffing up his “relationship” with Abercrombie and make it sound like he was “privy” to these developments by talking with Abercrombie.
    -but he got caught off guard when the story went beyond just his show and he got called on the carpet for claiming Abercrombie said things to him that didn’t match the actual record.
    -so now he’s trying to “back-peddle” by backing away from the key part that made this whole thing a “story” in the first place – that he had claimed to talk to Abercrombie when he didn’t.

    All I’ve accused him of being was an opportunist. Which I still view him as and I stand by that assessment of his actions.

  167. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    lol. yeah, go ahead and put words in my mouth. You called me a “foll” for dismissing it so quickly. You seem to forget that I’ve been seeing this same kind of nonsense from the birther klan for at least two and a half years, just like Scientist has. You probably have too and should have learned by now that all they have is foll’s gold

  168. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 7:23 pm #

    Daniel:
    OK just so we’re clear here, and able to make sure you can’t weasel out later, you’re saying that in Washington State…A COLB is issued to an adopted child, listing the child’s adopted parents, with no indication, whatsoever, that those parents are adoptive and not biological.Is that what you are saying, Freddy?

    Yes. See RCW 70.58.210:

    Birth certificate upon adoption.

    (1) Whenever a decree of adoption has been entered declaring a child, born in the state of Washington, adopted in any court of competent jurisdiction in the state of Washington or any other state or any territory of the United States, a certified copy of the decree of adoption shall be recorded with the proper department of registration of births in the state of Washington and a certificate of birth shall issue upon request, bearing the new name of the child as shown in the decree of adoption, the names of the adoptive parents of the child and the age, sex, and date of birth of the child, but no reference in any birth certificate shall have reference to the adoption of the child. However, original registration of births shall remain a part of the record of the board of health.

  169. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:25 pm #

    Scientist: he owes the Governor and all his listeners a HUGE apology, and I haven’t seen one yet.

    Then you didn’t listen to the clip where he said he was sorry and that he plans to call Governor A. But what are the chances of the call being answered?

  170. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 7:27 pm #

    I think Hawaii does the same thing. Feel free to demonstrate otherwise, I would be nice to have some clarity on this point.

  171. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: You called me a “foll” for dismissing it so quickly.

    That’s because you kept saying that they didn’t know each other when it seemed clear to me that they did by the Up Close and Personal Interview and the picture (that you refused to look at because it was from Freep which was from another source) with them side by side making a hand sign together.

  172. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 26, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    charo:
    Point out where I said I believe it or didn’t believe it.

    Well lets see anywhere from claiming he wasn’t like Adams to saying somehow your dad saying the explanation is logical to continually pimping the story. When people pointed out to you he was most likely lying you still tried to back up his side. No backtracking now charo

  173. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    charo:
    That’s because you kept saying that they didn’t know each other when it seemed clear to me that they did by the Up Close and Personal Interview and the picture (that you refused to look at because it was from Freep which was from another source) with them side by side making a hand sign together.

    I never said they didn’t know each other. I said they probably knew each other but weren’t as intimate as you suggested they were; not intimate enough for Abercrombie to tell him something like that even if it were true

  174. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    G:
    Charo, I fail to see what you are arguing or defending here.I have never said that Evans was a Birther.Nor have I said (nor even implied) that he knows who Corsi is or even WND’s reputation.Read my points again.It seems you are trying to argue against nothing here.My “theory” on him is pretty much what you just said too:- Evans was gullible and read some story, not realizing that it wasn’t true.
    – He tried to “make himself” part of the story by puffing up his “relationship” with Abercrombie and make it sound like he was “privy” to these developments by talking with Abercrombie.
    -but he got caught off guard when the story went beyond just his show and he got called on the carpet for claiming Abercrombie said things to him that didn’t match the actual record.
    -so now he’s trying to “back-peddle” by backing away from the key part that made this whole thing a “story” in the first place – that he had claimed to talk to Abercrombie when he didn’t.All I’ve accused him of being was an opportunist.Which I still view him as and I stand by that assessment of his actions.

    I guess we are mostly in agreement, although I see him as less of an opportunist than lacking in communication skills. If this were totally intentional, he would know that it would come out that Governor NA did not speak to him. He is known to be a bumbler of words. (I linked that on the other thread somewhere).

  175. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Yes. See RCW 70.58.210:Birth certificate upon adoption.(1) Whenever a decree of adoption has been entered declaring a child, born in the state of Washington, adopted in any court of competent jurisdiction in the state of Washington or any other state or any territory of the United States, a certified copy of the decree of adoption shall be recorded with the proper department of registration of births in the state of Washington and a certificate of birth shall issue upon request, bearing the new name of the child as shown in the decree of adoption, the names of the adoptive parents of the child and the age, sex, and date of birth of the child, but no reference in any birth certificate shall have reference to the adoption of the child. However, original registration of births shall remain a part of the record of the board of health.

    OK now we’re getting some where.

    1. Please tell me, now that you have shown that you can read legislation, what differences are there between how Washington State does it, and how Hawaii does it? and

    2. What happens to your adoption decree?

  176. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    Freddy N.: Scientist:.He’s the President.He gets judged on what he does in office.End of story.

    Freddy N.: If you thought about it for a moment, you would realize what a bizarre notion that is.

    Wow. Just Wow. That has to be one of the the dumbest things I’ve ever heard.

    OF COURSE a sitting president who runs for re-election is judged on his record! *DUH*

    That’s the whole point in a re-election.

    Same as with ANY job. When you first apply for a job, your interview and your resume are the primary sets of info that someone has to go on in making a hiring decision.

    After you’ve been at the job for a more than a year, your performance reviews and ability to be promoted, etc. are based on judging your performance in that job. Your resume prior to that job no longer matters.

    Being POTUS is a pretty unique job – there is only one at any one time and someone can be POTUS for no more than 2 consecutive terms.

    Therefore, the first time someone runs for that position, all there is to go on is their “resume” and their “interview” (which is the campaign) in order to judge if they are up to the job of being POTUS.

    Once they are POTUS…we see how they actually perform on the job. That performance is what they are primarily evaluated on during a reelection.

  177. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Well lets see anywhere from claiming he wasn’t like Adams to saying somehow your dad saying the explanation is logical to continually pimping the story.When people pointed out to you he was most likely lying you still tried to back up his side.No backtracking now charo

    She’s back peddling faster than a clown on a unicycle. lmao

  178. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    I never said they didn’t know each other. I said they probably knew each other but weren’t as intimate as you suggested they were; not intimate enough for Abercrombie to tell him something like that even if it were true

    At first you did not say that. At first you said that he probably doesn’t even know the clown. Additionally, once I listened to all of the clips, I said that the relationship was not as close as he was presenting it to be.

  179. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 26, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    Daniel:
    Really? You don’t say?So tell me, Freddy, just for grins….What state issues a COLB for an adopted child, lists his adopted parents, and gives no indication on it that they are not his biological parents?Go ahead, tell me….. I’m positively giddy with anticipation to hear what crap you come up with.

    Um… most of them? My (Michigan) birth certificate lists my adoptive parents with no notation that they are not my biological parents. Do I need to prove it?

  180. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    I will gladly go back and find my words that Mike Evans would have to either stick to what he said or backtrack from it. Excuse me while I look.

  181. avatar
    misha January 26, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    Steve: Molotov Mitchell saying that if it’s on the Internet, it must be true.
    Anyone care to poke holes in his logic?

    Molotov Mitchell: “A world without Jesus”
    http://www.wnd.com/?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104165&EmbedC=984dac0a-a990-45f1-87d8-9b166449906c

    If Muslim armies had won the Crusades, there would have not been the Holocaust. Hercules is the son of Zeus and a human woman. Mary and Jesus are based on Isis and her son Horus.

  182. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 7:36 pm #

    Daniel: charo: I tend to think he was simply clueless

    Oh so he’s a birther then….

    I don’t see any evidence that Evans was a birther. Just an opportunist who got caught being gullible and trying to make himself seem more important.

    I agree with the assessment that he was merely clueless and foolish.

  183. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:36 pm #

    charo:
    At first you did not say that.At first you said that he probably doesn’t even know the clown.Additionally, once I listened to all of the clips, I said that the relationship was not as close as he was presenting it to be.

    At first I may have said that, I don’t remember that specifically though, but at last I said that they weren’t as intimate as you suggested they were, and that’s was my final position on the matter

  184. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    She’s back peddling faster than a clown on a unicycle. lmao

    So why would I come here this evening and show the Evans’ clip? It wasn’t like you showed it to me and asked me to explain.

  185. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:39 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    At first I may have said that, I don’t remember that specifically though, but at last I said that they weren’t as intimate as you suggested they were, and that’s was my final position on the matter

    And how intimate did I suggest they were, after the discussion went on for awhile?

  186. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:41 pm #

    charo:
    So why would I come here this evening and show the Evans’ clip?It wasn’t like you showed it to me and asked me to explain.

    Let’s cut to the chase then, when you posted that clip here today, did you know that what he was saying was BS? NOT that he was lying, but that it was BS. And if you thought that it was BS when you came here today, when did you come to that realization?

  187. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:44 pm #

    charo:
    And how intimate did I suggest they were, after the discussion went on for awhile?

    You left with the possibility that they could be that intimate, and you even emailed him to find out if he really was that intimate with Abercrombie. You even said that we here didn’t believe him in the email, not that YOU didn’t believe him, but that WE didn’t believe him

  188. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:48 pm #

    I didn’t believe it even for a second, and I don’t care how friendly they were; it doesn’t matter. It goes against all the hard evidence that has come out for the past two and a half years, so it had to be BS

  189. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 7:49 pm #

    charo: I guess we are mostly in agreement, although I see him as less of an opportunist than lacking in communication skills. If this were totally intentional, he would know that it would come out that Governor NA did not speak to him. He is known to be a bumbler of words. (I linked that on the other thread somewhere).

    If he lacks communication skills and is a bumbler of words, then he made an odd choice to make his career as an on-air radio personality, didn’t he?

  190. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Let’s cut to the chase then, when you posted that clip here today, did you know that what he was saying was BS? NOT that he was lying, but that it was BS. And if you thought that it was BS when you came here today, when did you come to that realization?

    I don’t believe he was lying. I listened to the clip and heard his reaction the first time his own words were played back to him. He knew then what came out. And as I recall, there were people here who said what he said: that he called the office.

    Here is part of what I just said above, the first time I voluntarily posted (and not confronted):

    He didn’t know anything about anything until he read whatever he read in the papers. I don’t believe the paper said what he believes, but HE clearly believes he saw it.

  191. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    charo January 25, 2011 at 12:39 am charo(Quote) #

    G: So yeah, in the end, why assume that Abercrombie needs to respond to any of this at all.

    I would think that because Evans said he called his office, he would want an official statement denying it. Mike Evans is not an anonymous person; there are interviews available that indicate at least that they are some kind of acquaintances. (The Governor says his full name, for instance, in one of the links) In other words, it is not a statement by someone named Squeeky who has a history of making inane statements. In the interviews, he appeared sane to me. As for Adams, I simply said he seems to be throwing fighting words and wondered if there would be a reaction. Time will bear out whether there will be any consequences.

  192. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    Daniel:
    OK now we’re getting some where.1. Please tell me, now that you have shown that you can read legislation, what differences are there between how Washington State does it, and how Hawaii does it? and2. What happens to your adoption decree?

    I get the sense Hawaii, and other states with closed adoption, does the same thing. Feel free to demonstrate otherwise.

    The adoption decree remains on file.

  193. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:54 pm #

    charo January 25, 2011 at 1:20 am

    I have listened to three links with Neil Abercrombie and Mike Evans (there is a part 2 on one of the links). Mike Evans does not come across as the loon that you present. OTOH, I don’t know that he had an in-depth relationship with Abercrombie as he tries to present either.

  194. avatar
    Judge Mental January 26, 2011 at 7:54 pm #

    Freddy N.: The father listed on my “Certificate of Live Birth” isn’t my biological father.Given Obama’s refusal to cooperate with Abercrombie’s attempt to resolve this matter, along with Abercrombie’s ambiguous statements, skepticism is not unwarranted.

    You have gone off at a tangent.

    First of all the “this matter” which Abercrombie was hoping (somewhat naively in my humble opinion) to help resolve was the matter of continuing speculation as regards whether Obama was born in Hawaii, not the matter of who his father was.

    Secondly, as has already been explained to you by others there is no evidence of any refusal by Obama to cooperate with Abercrombie, so in this respect you seem to be diving for the safety of the notions in your head instead of finding something you “know” to be factual. I politely asked you to try not to do that when you replied..

    Any reasonably intelligent man should realise that Abercrombie not being in possession of permission from Obama to releae any birth related documentation found in the Hawaii files is not necessarily the same thing as Abercrombie having asked Obama for such permission and having been refused it. You simply do not “know” if there was a request and refusal or not and neither do I.

    Finally, summoning the best will I can muster, I can just about believe that there are some very tiny shoots of justification for a little skepticism about what kind of birth information and documents are actually in the Hawaii vital record files, fuelled by some very badly worded utterances by Abercrombie…..but I cannot for the life of me understand what possible relevance those utterances have to creating skepticism over who Obama’s father was.

  195. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 7:56 pm #

    G: After you’ve been at the job for a more than a year, your performance reviews and ability to be promoted, etc. are based on judging your performance in that job.Your resume prior to that job no longer matters.

    Whatever you say.

  196. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    charo: Let’s cut to the chase then, when you posted that clip here today, did you know that what he was saying was BS? NOT that he was lying, but that it was BS. And if you thought that it was BS when you came here today, when did you come to that realization?

    Of course, you didn’t answer my question, which was:

    when you posted that clip here today, did you know that what he was saying was BS? NOT that he was lying, but that it was BS.

  197. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    Scientist:
    If he lacks communication skills and is a bumbler of words, then he made an odd choice to make his career as an on-air radio personality, didn’t he?

    IMO, he is a high school drop out who was in the right place at the right time. He made a career with limited skills but good luck.

  198. avatar
    Daniel January 26, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    I get the sense Hawaii, and other states with closed adoption, does the same thing. Feel free to demonstrate otherwise.The adoption decree remains on file.

    I’m not asking for your impression, and I’m not the one alleging fraud. Nor am I the one offering my COLB as an example. Please tell me the difference, if any, between Washington procedures and Hawaii

    Now if your adoption decree remains in the records, how would it read if you were born, say, outside the country, and adopted in Washington State?

  199. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    And when I say “BS” I mean that it’s not true, not that it’s a lie.

  200. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 8:01 pm #

    What partare you talking about that was BS? What he said in the recent clip or the initial one? If you are talking about today, I don’t believe he correctly read the paper about no birth certificate in either hospital. The hospitals have not publicly said anything that I am aware of. Even if he did read that, unless it is general knowledge that has been proven, a newspaper is not a primary source of information. Newspapers get things wrong often.

  201. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    When I ask this, it is not meant to be accusatory (and it wasn’t meant that way for you either, G):

    Did you listen to the clip that I posted?

  202. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    Scientist: If he lacks communication skills and is a bumbler of words, then he made an odd choice to make his career as an on-air radio personality, didn’t he?

    Well, although what you say makes perfect logical sense that one should try to choose a career field that matches their skills…it sure doesn’t always turn out that way in reality.

    Personally, I’m surprised at how many DJ’s there are out there that seem to have poor communication skills and bumble their words. I often wonder how they got the job and how they stay on the air.

    But then again, there are incompetent people doing jobs ill-suited to them all over the place in just about every career arena, that somehow manage to survive/stay in that career field, despite their lack of skills or competence. Just a sad reality of how the real world operates.

  203. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 8:06 pm #

    I think the disagreement we have, Fut, is that I wanted to give Mike Evans a chance to explain himself. There was nothing to suggest that he had an agenda. I had never even heard of him before the past couple of days. I generally hold G’s view, but with a softer position. That is because by nature, I usually defend the underdog.

  204. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 26, 2011 at 8:08 pm #

    Daniel,

    Freddy is probably right regarding adoption law (his remarks agree with my personal experiences) – he just has no evidence whatsoever that this is relevant to the president.

  205. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 8:08 pm #

    charo: What partare you talking about that was BS?What he said in the recent clip or the initial one?If you are talking about today, I don’t believe he correctly read the paper about no birth certificate in either hospital.The hospitals have not publicly said anything that I am aware of.Even if he did read that, unless it is general knowledge that has been proven, a newspaper is not a primary source of information.Newspapers get things wrong often.

    I am not ascribing any kind of motivation to him, and I don’t care why he said it or what he was thinking when he was saying it. You’re the one saying that. I’m saying that when I first heard it, I knew that it was not true regardless of why he said it. Now, when did you first realize that what he said was not true, NOT his motivations for saying it?

  206. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 8:09 pm #

    Finally, you may or may not recall that I said that after listening to the interviews several times, I had a favorable opinion of Neil Abercrombie as far as his personality (definitely not his political views). He was kind of charming

  207. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    charo: I think the disagreement we have, Fut, is that I wanted to give Mike Evans a chance to explain himself. There was nothing to suggest that he had an agenda. I had never even heard of him before the past couple of days.Igenerally hold G’s view, but with a softer position.That is because by nature, I usually defend the underdog.

    Oh so you knew what he was saying was false but you just wanted to know why he would say something that loony.

  208. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: charo: What partare you talking about that was BS?What he said in the recent clip or the initial one?If you are talking about today, I don’t believe he correctly read the paper about no birth certificate in either hospital.The hospitals have not publicly said anything that I am aware of.Even if he did read that, unless it is general knowledge that has been proven, a newspaper is not a primary source of information.Newspapers get things wrong often.I am not ascribing any kind of motivation to him, and I don’t care why he said it or what he was thinking when he was saying it. You’re the one saying that. I’m saying that when I first heard it, I knew that it was not true regardless of why he said it. Now, when did you first realize that what he said was not true, NOT his motivations for saying it?

    When he said that he read in the newspapers that both hospitals stated that there was no birth certificates and he was using that as evidence.

  209. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 8:15 pm #

    Also, up until I heard him specifically realize that he DID say that Neil said this and that and then retracted that, I believed that it was possible the two may have had a conversation about the birth certificate (that is where we differed yesterday), but as to the content of what was said, I was waiting to hear a response from the Governor as to the details. I believed (and no one appeared to agree with me) that because Mike Evans said the information came from his office (an official capacity) that he would probably want to make some kind of statement.

  210. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    Daniel:
    I’m not asking for your impression, and I’m not the one alleging fraud. Nor am I the one offering my COLB as an example. Please tell me the difference, if any, between Washington procedures and HawaiiNow if your adoption decree remains in the records, how would it read if you were born, say, outside the country, and adopted in Washington State?

    If you have information demonstrating Hawaii does things differently than Washington, feel free to share it.

    As for what WA would do if I were born outside the country, I don’t know.

  211. avatar
    Sean January 26, 2011 at 8:21 pm #

    Freddy N.: “o he doesn’t.Now OTOH, I understand that YOU want him to say what you need him to say”I expect if there was an official long form birth certificate on file, he would have said that. He didn’t. It’s significant he chose not to. His purpose was to clarify this matter.“The matter was settled once and for all two years ago.”Abercrombie has unsettled it.“Except, of course, that Obama’s refusal exists only in your mind. There’s nothing that would suggest that Obama did so”Abercrombie’s office stated Obama’s lack of consent was why the Governor ended his quest:A privacy law that shields birth certificates has prompted Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie to abandon efforts to dispel claims that President Barack Obama was born outside Hawaii, his office says.State Attorney General David Louie told the governor that privacy laws bar him from disclosing an individual’s birth documentation without the person’s consent, Abercrombie spokeswoman Donalyn Dela Cruz said Friday.

    The last governer already looked into it. As it turns out, Obama was actually born in Honolulu.

  212. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 8:23 pm #

    Did you listen to the whole link?

  213. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    Hearing how Evans lied about speaking with Abercrombie makes me doubt some of his Hollywood stories, especially the one on his blog about Steve Tyler doing drugs.

    Regarding Tim Adams, I see him as, like Evans, blowing a whole bunch of stuff out of proportion. In his case, the motive seems more political than publicity stunt. We already know he exaggerated a 4 month temp job into a senior position.

    What likely happened is that while he was working for the Elections Office, he started asking a bunch of questions about Obama. His supervisors got tired of hearing it and told him to get back to work. When he persisted, they probably said something like, “Records? We don’t got no stinkin’ records”. Maybe as a joke, they told him that everyone knows there are no records. Workplace jokes like that are common. The point is he worked for an office that has no birth records and no need to access them, certainly for Obama. who voted in Illinois, not Hawaii.

  214. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    Scientist: Hearing how Evans lied about speaking with Abercrombie makes me doubt some of his Hollywood stories, especially the one on his blog about Steve Tyler doing drugs.Regarding Tim Adams, I see him as, like Evans, blowing a whole bunch of stuff outof proportion.In his case, the motive seems more political than publicity stunt.We already know he exaggerated a 4 month temp job into a senior position.What likely happened is that while he was working for the Elections Office, he started asking a bunch of questions about Obama.His supervisors got tired of hearing it and told him to get back to work.Whenhe persisted, they probably said something like, “Records?We don’t got no stinkin’ records”.Maybe as a joke, they told him that everyone knows there are no records.Workplace jokes like that are common.The point is he worked for an office that has no birth records and no need to access them, certainly for Obama. who voted in Illinois, not Hawaii.

    And Adams never claims in his sworn statement that he ever did access any of Hawaii’s records, birth records or otherwise, to find out if there was a birth certificate for Obama. All his statement said was that someone told him the information he has.

  215. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Whatever you say.

    Wow… so your lame reply that to the STANDARD method of evaluating people in a job is based on their PERFORMANCE (including the POTUS) is to retort with an example that people can ALSO be fired in instances when they are caught lying on their resume?

    Yeah, what else is new, genius… *duh*

    What you FAIL to understand is that there must be PROOF that someone was lying on their credentials.

    You don’t get to just claim someone’s resume is bogus and then boot them. You would be subject to an unfair termination lawsuit.

    You simply must have evidence proving your case. Suspicions don’t cut it

    So, let’s go back to your laughable use of “false resume credentials” as your view of the main reason that people don’t re-elect presidents… instead of basing it on their performance and compare that to history.

    …Oh that’s right. No prior POTUS running for re-election has ever had this issue of “false resume credentials” be a factor in his re-election campaign either….

    FAIL!

  216. avatar
    kimba January 26, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    Scientist: Regarding Tim Adams, I see him as, like Evans, blowing a whole bunch of stuff out of proportion. In his case, the motive seems more political than publicity stunt. We already know he exaggerated a 4 month temp job into a senior position.

    The timing of his 4 month temp job, May – Aug 2008 is when birthism was just a twinkle in Berg’s eye. He’s just looking for his 15 minutes or $. My guess is $.

  217. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    kimba:
    The timing of his 4 month temp job, May – Aug 2008 is when birthism was just a twinkle in Berg’s eye.He’s just looking for his 15 minutes or $.My guess is $.

    Nah, look at him. He hasn’t had any since it had him

  218. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 8:35 pm #

    charo: IMO, he is a high school drop out who was in the right place at the right time. He made a career with limited skills but good luck.

    I would concur with that assessment. Also, I don’t hold any of that against him either. Part of pursuing the American dream and good for him!

    I do tend to look at his years focusing on “gossip” issues (including Hollywood gossip) as an indicator though of the types of stories he’s comfortable in dealing with. Gossip is often full of embellishment and boasting. The guy’s background is more of a gossip entertainer than a real journalist, so I’m not surprised that he’d just naively read a story he was unfamiliar with and run with it and try to embellish upon it and make himself seem to be “part” of the story, without fact checking. That would seem to be part and parcel with how a lot of folks who operate in the gossip business operate.

  219. avatar
    Scientist January 26, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    G: Oh that’s right. No prior POTUS running for re-election has ever had this issue of “false resume credentials” be a factor in his re-election campaign either

    People tried to make an issue of Bush’s blowing off National Guard service in his re-election. It was a non-factor and correctly so. There were plenty of reasons not to re-elect Bush-that wasn’t one of them.

  220. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 8:41 pm #

    charo: When I ask this, it is not meant to be accusatory (and it wasn’t meant that way for you either, G):Did you listen to the clip that I posted?

    I’m pretty sure I’ve listened or read every clip and link you’ve posted. I fail to see where there is additional relevance to anything we haven’t already covered on this topic already. I don’t think I’ve missed anything of import here.

    If anything, I feel that we’ve spent way more time on the whole issue than it has been worth. Just more Much Ado About Nothing that spun off from the original over-hyped and over-sensationalized Much Ado About Nothing Abercrombie story…

  221. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 8:58 pm #

    G:
    I’m pretty sure I’ve listened or read every clip and link you’ve posted.I fail to see where there is additional relevance to anything we haven’t already covered on this topic already.I don’t think I’ve missed anything of import here.If anything, I feel that we’ve spent way more time on the whole issue than it has been worth.Just more Much Ado About Nothing that spun off from the original over-hyped and over-sensationalized Much Ado About Nothing Abercrombie story…

    It was a link from 6:18 this evening. Everything here is over-hyped, IMO.

  222. avatar
    Rickey January 26, 2011 at 9:28 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):Mike Evans says he never talked to Abercrombie about the birth certificate

    Not to toot my own horn (well, maybe a little), but a couple of days ago I said that I was pretty sure that Evans had not spoken to Abercrombie about the birth certificate.

  223. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 9:29 pm #

    Michele Bachmann Proposes “Don’t Add, Don’t Spell”

    Reflects Core Tea Party Values, Says Minn. Lawmaker

    MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report) – In her official Tea Party response to President Obama’s State of the Union Address, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) offered a bold new policy initiative she called “Don’t Add, Don’t Spell.”

    Rep. Bachmann called the proposal “a reflection of core Tea Party values” and said it would “deliver the American people from the tyranny of arithmetic, spelling, and punctuation.”

    In addition to “Don’t Add, Don’t Spell,” Rep. Bachmann suggested slashing the Federal budget by eliminating nine of the first ten Amendments to the Constitution.

    “I think you know which one I’d keep,” she chuckled, miming a Western gunslinger with her index fingers.

    Rep. Bachmann’s odd onscreen appearance, in which she seemed to be staring off-camera for the duration of her speech, was initially blamed on “a squirrel that got into the studio and distracted her,” said one Tea Party official.

    But the Minnesota congresswoman offered her own explanation: “I was looking off to one side because I was trying to read off Sarah Palin’s hand.”

    In Washington, House Speaker John Boehner held a press conference after the President’s speech to declare, “This infernal week of civility is officially over.”

    “The American people owe its representatives a huge debt of thanks,” Mr. Boehner added. “Tonight, each of us made the ultimate sacrifice any American can ever be called upon to make: sitting next to a person we despise.”

    http://www.borowitzreport.com/

  224. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 9:33 pm #

    Rickey:
    Not to toot my own horn (well, maybe a little), but a couple of days ago I said that I was pretty sure that Evans had not spoken to Abercrombie about the birth certificate.

    The only time I have a problem with someone blowing their own horn is when it’s a birther who does it based on lies, delusions, and propaganda, which a lot of birther trolls who come here tend to do; you know, like telling people to go tho their website and read their crappy articles

  225. avatar
    G January 26, 2011 at 9:53 pm #

    charo: Everything here is over-hyped, IMO.

    LOL! Yeah, it sure seems that way. πŸ™‚

  226. avatar
    gorefan January 26, 2011 at 10:00 pm #

    charo: The Governor says his full name, for instance, in one of the links

    Hi Charo,

    With regards to the use of the name Michael John Evans. You provided a link to Evans website, that has a video taken on the day of the inauguration. In the video, the one where Evans is wearing Hawaii sweatshirt. There is an odd moment about 2/3rds the way through.

    Evans is fiddling with his cell phone, Rep. Abercrombie looks down and then starts to read something. He reachs for the badge hanging around Evans neck and reads it.. Evans says “I got my Secret Service pass.” And Rep. Abercrombia says, “I’ll make money on Michael John Evans.” He then says in a low voice, “Who knows Michael John, right.”

    Finally at the end of the interview, Rep. Abercrombia makes a point to say “always a pleasure to be with Michael John Evans.” to which Evans laughs and says “Oh, I love that.”

    So, is that the moment when Rep. Abercrombia first learns Evans’ middle name?

  227. avatar
    richCares January 26, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    the polls range from 80% to 90% on Obama’s SOU speech, that must drive birthers crazy.

  228. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 10:21 pm #

    richCares: the polls range from 80% to 90% on Obama’s SOU speech, that must drive birthers crazy.

    crazyER

  229. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 10:22 pm #

    More birther stupidity from someone who hasn’t read or doesn’t understand the U.S. Constitution:

    Arizona ‘Birther Bill’ Given Second Life By GOP Lawmaker

    Judy Burges, a Republican state representative in Arizona, is breathing new life into a failed legislative attempt to force President Barack Obama to display his long-form birth certificate in order to get a place on the state ballot in 2012.

    The so-called birther bill, which last year passed a vote in the Arizona House before being shelved by the state Senate, already has support from 30 cosponsors in both chambers this time around, Fox News reports.

    According to the New York Daily News, the bill is meant to allay persistent theories that Obama was not, in fact, born in Hawaii, as a copy of his Certification of Live Birth states:

    Burges’ HB 2544 would address each of these concerns by requiring any and all candidates to provide “an original long-form birth certificate that includes the date and place of birth, the names of the hospital and the attending physician and signatures of the witnesses in attendance.”

    Any candidate wishing to appear on the ballot in Arizona would also be required by the bill to provide “a sworn statement attesting that the candidate has not held dual or multiple citizenship and that the candidate’s allegiance is solely to the United States of America.”

    A number of other state lawmakers have reaffirmed a commitment to pass similar bills through their respective legislatures following widespread Republican wins across the country.

    Texas state Rep. Leo Berman (R) has been one of the most vocal about his proposal, stating last year that his “bill is necessary because we have a president whom the American people don’t know whether he was born in Kenya or some other place.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/26/arizona-birther-bill-judy-burges_n_814415.html

    “Such Acts, records and judicial proceedings or copies thereof, so authenticated, shall have the same full faith and credit in every court within the US and its Territories and Possessions as they have by law or usage in the courts of such State, Territory or Possession from which they are taken.”

    – Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution which addresses the duties that states within the United States have to respect the “public acts, records, and judicial proceedings” of other states.

    Idiots.

  230. avatar
    charo January 26, 2011 at 10:36 pm #

    gorefan:
    Hi Charo,With regards to the use of the name Michael John Evans.You provided a link to Evans website, that has a video taken on the day of the inauguration.In the video, the one where Evans is wearing Hawaii sweatshirt.There is an odd moment about 2/3rds the way through.
    Evans is fiddling with his cell phone, Rep. Abercrombie looks down and then starts to read something. He reachs for the badge hanging around Evans neck and reads it..Evans says “I got my Secret Service pass.” And Rep. Abercrombia says, “I’ll make money on Michael John Evans.”He then says in a low voice, “Who knows Michael John, right.”
    Finally at the end of the interview, Rep. Abercrombia makes a point to say “always a pleasure to be with Michael John Evans.” to which Evans laughs and says “Oh, I love that.”So, is that the moment when Rep. Abercrombia first learns Evans’ middle name?

    Hi,

    It could be. Good find. I hope Governor Abercrombie makes some kind of statement (or his spokesperson), even if it’s general, about his relationship with Evans, or his non-relationship. Either way, he has got to be p**sed at him. I am a sucker, but I feel sorry for Evans. I don’t know how he could not have seen all this coming. I wonder if he’ll get to keep his radio spots. Just rhetorical, not trying to hype.

  231. avatar
    Rickey January 26, 2011 at 10:41 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    I get the sense Hawaii, and other states with closed adoption, does the same thing. Feel free to demonstrate otherwise.

    If adoptive parents in Hawaii request a new birth certificate with their names on it, Hawaii issues an AMENDED birth certificate. If Obama had been adopted, his COLB would say AMENDED on it.

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/newbirthcert.html

    Consider it demonstrated that Hawaii does it differently than Washington.

    Of course, as far as Obama’s eligibility is concerned it doesn’t matter if his parents were Fred and Wilma Flintstone. Obama was born in Hawaii, end of story.

  232. avatar
    Black Lion January 26, 2011 at 10:46 pm #

    Look at the e-mail that was sent by old friend Gary Kreep….

    To My Truth-Seeking Patriot Friend:

    When he announced that he would produce Barack Hussein Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate, newly inaugurated Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie, a political confidant of Mr. Obama, said that the “birth certificate issue will have ‘political implications’ for the next presidential election that we simply ‘cannot have.'”

    Too bad Governor Abercrombie didn’t take the time to investigate and see if there was a long-form, doctor-issued birth certificate on file for Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. anywhere in the Hawaiian birth archive before making that statement. Because his search resulted in an admission that no long-form birth certificate for Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. appears to exist in Hawaii.

    Finally, those Americans who were convinced that Abercrombie was going to produce what MILLIONS of Americans have been asking for—Obama’s long-form, original, doctor-witnessed birth certificate would suddenly appear and a million “birthers” would be embarrassed. That was then. This is now.

    Governor Abercrombie suggested in a published interview that the long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health. Questioned by the media, he admitted that his search failed to produce the elusive birth certificate.

    The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) has been hammering this question home for over two years. Either Barack Obama is a natural-born American citizen, or he is not! Either a legitimate Hawaiian birth certificate exists, or it does not! This is your fight. We win it, or we lose it, now. We need your financial support to finish this battle. Because of an Obama friend, we may be close to obtaining the truth. PLEASE DONATE your best possible gift to help us to derail Governor Abercrombie’s efforts to convince other States that they don’t have to ask Presidential candidates to produce documentation to prove that they are eligible to run.

    The new Governor of Hawaii, Mr. Abercrombie, told the media that: “”What bothers me is that some people who should know better are trying to use this for political reasons. Maybe I’m the only one in the country that could look you right in the eye right now and tell you, ‘I was here when that baby was born.'” Notice that Abercrombie did not say that he saw either the Obamas, or their son, only that he was in Hawaii when Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., was born… somewhere.

    The Hawaiian Governor told the HONOLULU STAR ADVERTISER that he was searching, within the Hawaii Department of Health, to find definitive records that would prove Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii, because the continuing eligibility controversy could hurt Barack Obama’s chances of re-election in 2012.

    Governor Abercrombie insists: “It actually exists in the archives, written down.”

    However, he has NOT produced document number one—the actual, long form, birth certificate!

    The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) has been hammering this question home for over two years. Either Barack Obama is a natural-born American citizen, or he is not! Either a legitimate Hawaiian birth certificate exists, or it does not! This is your fight. We win it, or we lose it, now. We need your financial support to finish this battle. Because of an Obama friend, we may be close to obtaining the truth. PLEASE DONATE your best possible gift to help us to derail Governor Abercrombie’s efforts to convince other States that they don’t have to ask Presidential candidates to produce documentation to prove that they are eligible to run.

    Now let’s review what the Hawaiian Governor Abercrombie has promised. He will get to the bottom of this so it will not hurt Mr. Obama politically. He was going to, immediately release Mr. Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate. YET, this long-form, hospital-generated, birth certificate has NEVER been produced! Do you know why?

    It was, after all, one of the governor’s campaign promises. Other States expected this governor to find the birth certificate and, one way or another, solve the eligibility question: He didn’t, because he couldn’t find it. Abercrombie reminds me of Clara Peller. Remember her? She did the Wendy’s commercial: “Where’s the beef?” Where is Clara when we need her shouting: “Where’s the birth certificate?”

    Could Mr. Abercrombie’s folly be the loose thread that begins the literal unraveling of the Obama stay in the Oval Office?

    The United States Justice Foundation (USJF) has been hammering this question home for over two years. Either Barack Obama is a natural-born American citizen, or he is not! Either a legitimate Hawaiian birth certificate exists, or it does not! This is your fight. We win it, or we lose it, now. We need your financial support to finish this battle. Because of an Obama friend, we may be close to obtaining the truth. PLEASE DONATE your best possible gift to help us to derail Governor Abercrombie’s efforts to convince other States that they don’t have to ask Presidential candidates to produce documentation to prove that they are eligible to run.

    Acknowledging that Barack Obama, Jr., has not produced a long-form, doctor-witnessed, birth certificate, Neil Abercrombie recently said that he intends to produce and release Mr. Obama’s long-form, hospital issued, birth certificate from Kapiolani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital. Governor Abercrombie added that he is upset, because several States are enacting legislation that will force Presidential candidates to document that they are eligible to run before their names can be placed on the ballot for the office of President of the United States.

    THE GOVERNOR STILL CANNOT PRODUCE IT!!

    If this document does not exist, as Barack Obama’s spending of a reported $2 million to block the efforts of many to get it seems to indicate, it begs the question: what is Governor Abercrombie going to produce? And, will the ink be dry on the document when he does?

    In light of what is taking place in Hawaii, a million Clara Pellers should be screaming: “Where’s the birth certificate?” Remember: there was a reason why Barack Hussein Obama has spent a reported $2 million to conceal the history of his identity. All that the American people want is the TRUTH, not $2 million in rhetoric, “spin,” and legal “mumbo-jumbo.”

    In fact, at the very least, the American people have a right to demand the truth, as the 1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States guarantees us—We, The People—the right to address our grievances to the government of the United States. Thus far, our government officials have violated the Constitution by refusing to listen to that grievance… and require that Barack Hussein Obama produce the documentation that the United States Constitution requires of him.

    Sadly, it appears that the federal court system will continue to shield the truth. The lawsuits filed by a myriad of plaintiffs, including those that USJF has filed, funded, or otherwise supported (6 in all), demanding that the government listen to our grievance in a court of law, have run into “judicial roadblocks” in every case. The United States Justice Foundation has filed legal brief after legal brief, funded suit after suit (6, so far, including two that we are currently handling), yet the federal government continues to stonewall us.

    Please help us use Governor Abercrombie’s faux paux get to the bottom of this issue. It is very possible that Mr. Obama is ILLEGALLY sitting as the “President” of the United States. That’s why I am emailing you today—to ask you to assist us with a financial DONATION to help us to get to the truth.

    I know that I can count on you. Please CLICK the green Donation button here.

    Thank you for your RESPONSE TODAY TO HELP USJF to get to the real truth about Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve as the Commander-in-Chief.

    Gary G. Kreep, Esq.
    Executive Director
    United States Justice Foundation

  233. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 10:47 pm #

    Rickey: Obama was born in Hawaii, end of story.

    And there you have the crux of the problem with mentally challenged, whiny birthers.

  234. avatar
    Majority Will January 26, 2011 at 10:50 pm #

    Black Lion: PLEASE DONATE your best possible gift

    And the idiot birthers who slime these threads are gullible enough.

  235. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 10:50 pm #

    Yeah, please CLICK the green Donation button, YOU SUCKER!

  236. avatar
    sarina January 26, 2011 at 11:41 pm #

    I need help: A birther is telling me that Obama’s COLB is not a Certificate. Doc had information
    about this long time ago but I can’t find it.

    The COLB said “Certificate No” on the right of the document and on the bottom too. Why this birther is saying is not a Certificate?

  237. avatar
    Freddy N. January 26, 2011 at 11:43 pm #

    Rickey:
    If adoptive parents in Hawaii request a new birth certificate with their names on it, Hawaii issues an AMENDED birth certificate. If Obama had been adopted, his COLB would say AMENDED on it.http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/newbirthcert.htmlConsider it demonstrated that Hawaii does it differently than Washington.Of course, as far as Obama’s eligibility is concerned it doesn’t matter if his parents were Fred and Wilma Flintstone. Obama was born in Hawaii, end of story.

    It’s not clear Hawaii does it differently than Washington. If the adoption took place at the time of birth, I don’t think the COLB would say “amended” on it, here.

  238. avatar
    Sef January 26, 2011 at 11:44 pm #

    sarina: I need help: A birther is telling me that Obama’s COLB is not a Certificate. Doc had information
    aboutthis long time ago but I can’t find it.
    The COLB said “Certificate No” on the right of the documentand on the bottom too. Why this birther is saying is not a Certificate?

    Rule 1, sarina. Never try to engage a birther in intelligent conversation.

  239. avatar
    misha January 26, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    Black Lion: Look at the e-mail that was sent by old friend Gary Kreep….

    Kreep’s buddies include Holocaust deniers.

  240. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 26, 2011 at 11:47 pm #

    sarina: I need help: A birther is telling me that Obama’s COLB is not a Certificate. Doc had information
    aboutthis long time ago but I can’t find it.
    The COLB said “Certificate No” on the right of the documentand on the bottom too. Why this birther is saying is not a Certificate?

    Not sure I understand what the birther is looking for. Is he saying that it’s not a valid prof of birth in Hawaii? If so, refer it to

    §338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

    (b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.>/b>

    (c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]

    http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0013.htm

  241. avatar
    misha January 26, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    Freddy N.: If the adoption took place at the time of birth, I don’t think the COLB would say “amended” on it,

    Your COLB does not say “amended,” because wolves cannot write.

  242. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 26, 2011 at 11:52 pm #

    Sarina,

    More generally, the COLB is the document that the Hawai’i DOH provides people who request birth certificates – as such, it is due full faith and credit in all of the several states. It also satisfies the federal definition of a birth certificate. A certified copy of the COLB is prima facie proof of the information it contains in every US court including the SCOTUS. It is pretty much the gold standard for a ‘birth certificate’. Hope that helps.

  243. avatar
    Sean January 26, 2011 at 11:53 pm #

    Majority Will: the witnesses in attendance.”Any candidate wishing to appear on the ballot in Arizona would also be required by the bill to provide “a sworn statement attesting that the candidate has not held dual or multiple citizenship and that the candidate’s allegiance is solely to the United States of America.”

    Big problem I see in this bill is that it implies that once having dual-citizenship disqualifies you from running for President.

  244. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 26, 2011 at 11:58 pm #

    misha:
    Your COLB does not say “amended,” because wolves cannot write.

    Misha,

    As I said before, my birth certificate does not say ‘amended’ (it was issued a couple of weeks after my birth) and it has my adoptive parents names on it. The problem with what Freddy is saying is the lack of any evidence that President Obama was adopted at birth (or any other time), not the law (in my opinion, anyway).

  245. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #

    Sean:
    Big problem I see in this bill is that it implies that once having dual-citizenship disqualifies you from running for President.

    We’d better sue to get Spiro Agnew off of the ballots immediately! And invalidate all of the actions of President Jefferson!

  246. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 12:00 am #

    Sean:
    Big problem I see in this bill is that it implies that once having dual-citizenship disqualifies you from running for President.

    I guess it depends on what they mean by “…held dual or multiple citizenship.” It doesn’t say whether it means by statute or by one exercising their right to citizenship of another country. President Obama had dual citizenship because of the Kenyan constitution but never claimed it.

  247. avatar
    sarina January 27, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    Thank you for all the information! Good night!

  248. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 12:04 am #

    Good night, sarina.

  249. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 12:07 am #

    Slartibartfast: The problem with what Freddy is saying

    The problem is Feddy and his coterie, in general.

    Freddy was adopted and raised by a pack of wolves, not you.

  250. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 12:09 am #

    misha:
    The problem is Feddy and his coterie, in general.Freddy was adopted and raised by a pack of wolves, not you.

    Maybe he was raised in a van down by the river. Oops, no, that was Matt Foley

  251. avatar
    obsolete January 27, 2011 at 12:11 am #

    I don’t think they can pass a law that immediately disqualifies anyone Jewish or Italian from running for President- That is what the law does.

  252. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Maybe he was raised in a van down by the river. Oops, no, that was Matt Foley

    [bada-bing]

  253. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 27, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    misha: The problem is Feddy and his coterie, in general.

    You’re right, of course – I just think he’s correct regarding adoption and birth certificates (he’s halfway to being a broken clock! ;-)).

  254. avatar
    G January 27, 2011 at 12:19 am #

    charo:
    Hi,It could be.Good find.I hope Governor Abercrombie makes some kind of statement (or his spokesperson), even if it’s general, about his relationship with Evans, or his non-relationship. Either way, he has got to be p**sed at him.I am a sucker, but I feel sorry for Evans.I don’t know how he could not have seen all this coming.I wonder if he’ll get to keep his radio spots.Just rhetorical, not trying to hype.

    Personally, if Abercrombie was smart, he’d just move on and not even bother to respond to the story at all. A public figure needs to not come across as thin-skinned and easily distracted by something as small and meaningless as what some radio guy claims and then apologizes for. IMHO, He’ll show himself as less able to focus on his actual job if he so easily can be distracted and naively wades back into this latest splash in the Tempest in the Teapot that he foolishly initiated.

    All I’m saying is if he doesn’t say anything further on the matter, I wouldn’t be surprised nor disappointed. It is time to let this over-hyped non-story die out and move on.

    In terms of Evans, I highly doubt he would lose his job over this. He’ll get some mocking & teasing for sure and whatever credibility and clout he has has taken a hit, but its a really nothing but a trivial non-story in the long run and will likely fade into obscurity and be forgotten as people move on to other things.

    Then again, radio is a weird business and I’ve seen local DJ’s be taken off the air suddenly for what seems like the silliest and most harmless of things, so who can say.

    All I can give is my opinion that nothing he’s done will nor should lead to any loss of his job. All he did is make himself look foolish. Happens to lots of folks all the time. Take your lumps, learn from it and move on. That would be my advice to him.

  255. avatar
    G January 27, 2011 at 12:26 am #

    Black Lion: Look at the e-mail that was sent by old friend Gary Kreep….

    Gee…what a surprise… Birther Con Artist leaders, such as Kreep & WND are using their false versions of the Abercrombie story to continue to fleece their gullible followers. Wow… yet another worthless Birther donation campaign based on empty lies and emptier promises…

    In other words, business as usual in the Birther world. More fools and their money are soon parted…

  256. avatar
    Zixi of Ix January 27, 2011 at 12:36 am #

    Freddy N.: Zixi of Ix: I can’t speak to the motivations of birthers, I’m not a birther. I’m not an Obama worshipper, either, thus I think it would be important if we learned the autobiography and identity he’s presented were, to a considerable extent, fraudulent.

    Why? Why is it important?

    You don’t know much about your birth, apart from what you’ve been told. Neither do I. Neither does anyone else. All we have to go on is what people and documents tell us, second hand. How can it be fraud if he believes it?

    Assuming (and it’s a huge, massive assumption) that someone else was Obama’s biological father, he probably doesn’t know it. He put his COLB out there and that’s all he can do. That’s it. He’s incapable, as are we all, of knowing much more without DNA tests, which he has no reason to get.

    Frankly, it’s an insult to even ask, since we’ve never demanded it of others. It couldn’t possibly make any difference, unless embarrassment is one of your goals. Because:

    Even if (and there’s that big huge, massive if again) Obama somehow knows a different truth, it negates nothing – he’s still a NBC (unless you’re a de Vattelist, in which case you’re better off sticking with the “Obama Sr. is his dad” POV). He’s still the President of the United States – we don’t negate the presidency because they lie to get into office. If we did, we’d still be trying to replace George Washington.

    Essentially, regardless of who his father was, he’s the president. And since legally, the person on his COLB is his father, all you can possibly hope for is to embarrass the guy.

    I don’t agree with Obama’s policies, but find embarrassing him a silly, meaningless goal which won’t work and will likely backfire.

  257. avatar
    Sean January 27, 2011 at 12:45 am #

    obsolete: I don’t think they can pass a law that immediately disqualifies anyone Jewish or Italian from running for President- That is what the law does.

    How does it do that?

  258. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 1:10 am #

    Sean: How does it do that?

    The Israeli government considers anyone Jewish in the world, to be an Israeli citizen.

  259. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 27, 2011 at 1:22 am #

    sarina: I need help: A birther is telling me that Obama’s COLB is not a Certificate. Doc had information
    aboutthis long time ago but I can’t find it.
    The COLB said “Certificate No” on the right of the documentand on the bottom too. Why this birther is saying is not a Certificate?

    The reason that they’re saying it, is because if they actually acknowledged that the COLB is, as the Hawaii Department of Health puts it, “a valid Hawaii state birth certificate,” then they’d have to recognize that Barack Obama produced a valid certificate, and actually proved his place of birth. It’s mainly a sematics game. (Some birthers go a step further and try to set up a straw-man argument where they say that all we’ve seen is a picture of a COLB, and a picture is not eligible to be proof of anything. You don’t take a picture of a birth certificate into the DMV and show it as proof of the facts of birth.)

    If they had to acknowledge that the COLB is a birth certificate, then they’d also have to acknowledge where the COLB says that Obama was born, and that would cut their strongest argument against them.

    By the way, the Hawaii Department of Health calls it a Birth Certificate, and the United States Supreme Court recognizes it as a birth certificate. Tell them that, and see their face turn purple.

  260. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 27, 2011 at 1:39 am #

    Sean:
    How does it do that?

    Easy…

    Multiple countries recognize jus saguinus when born outside of the country. In fact, nearly every country does that… The U.S. does not require you to legally denounce foreign citizenships in order to keep U.S. Citizenship. So, you have this scenario…

    So, let’s take this scenario…

    Your grandparents immigrated from Italy. Before they naturalized as U.S. Citizens, your father was born to them. Your father is now an Italian Citizen, and an American Citizen. Neither one of them have to renounce either citizenship.

    So, now your father marries, and then has you. You, by virtue of being born to an Italian Citizen, have Italian Citizenship. You also have the virtue of being born inside the United States, an American Citizen…

    So, anybody born with this scenario, despite having generations upon generations of American-born people, would also have Italian Citizens being born to them. Therefore, they would not be eligible to be President, under this law.

    As a side note, two people that might fall under this law of not being eligible to the Presidency: Antonin Scalia, and Samuel Alito. Antonin Scalia was born to a Sicilian Immigrant (father), and his mother was born to Italian Immigrants. Samuel Alito’s parents were Italian Immigrants… In fact, 5 out of the 9 U.S. Supreme Court Justices would be clearly ineligible.

    Elena Kagan, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and Stephen Breyer are Jewish, and therefore Israel recognizes them as citizens.

    Samuel Alito and Antonin Scalia are Italian, and therefore ineligible.

    That leaves John Roberts, Sonya Sotomayor, Anthony Kennedy, and Clarence Thomas. Some how I doubt any of them would vote to uphold that portion of the law.

  261. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 2:14 am #

    dunstvangeet: Elena Kagan, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and Stephen Breyer are Jewish, and therefore Israel recognizes them as citizens.

    That’s correct.

    My cousin was living in Israel, because her father (my maternal uncle) had a one year lecture position at the Technion. While there, she turned 17.

    Guess what – the day after she turned 17, she was drafted by the IDF. She was a US citizen born in New York, and had never formally applied for Israeli citizenship. The government there considered her a citizen.

  262. avatar
    Sean January 27, 2011 at 2:29 am #

    dunstvangeet:
    That leaves John Roberts, Sonya Sotomayor, Anthony Kennedy, and Clarence Thomas.Some how I doubt any of them would vote to uphold that portion of the law.

    That brings an interesting point. Since this bill deals with very Constitutional subjects, would it be quickly thrown to the Supreme Court?

    If so, would this give the Supreme Court a opportunity to define “Natural Born Citizen” Constitutionally?

    This bill makes me wonder what its true strategy is. Is it to embarrass Obama, raise doubt, cause controversy? Did they even expect it to pass as written?

  263. avatar
    nc1 January 27, 2011 at 3:00 am #

    Slartibartfast: Sarina,More generally, the COLB is the document that the Hawai’i DOH provides people who request birth certificates – as such, it is due full faith and credit in all of the several states. It also satisfies the federal definition of a birth certificate. A certified copy of the COLB is prima facie proof of the information it contains in every US court including the SCOTUS. It is pretty much the gold standard for a birth certificate’. Hope that helps.

    Sarina

    Obama faitfull crowd won’t tell you that the rules have changed in Hawaii one year AFTER the first eligibility lawsuit was filed. The DOH will issue a COLB by default but if you need the original you have tp ask for it explicitly.

    They will also not tell you that the registration number shown on Obama’s COLb does not fit the Date Filed (August 8, 1961), when compared to a legitimate long form birth certificate for Nordyke twins (born on August 5, 1961)

    They will certainly not tell you that the first image of Obama’s COLB appeared on a left wing web site “Daily Kos”, it did not show the state seal (as legitimate copy should have) and the bottom folding crease is not visible. The registration number field was blacked out – which according to the same document invalidates it.

    They cannot logically explain these deficiencies – they will call you names once you point out the problems wih Obama’s alleged birth certificate.

    They also cannot explain why is it that it took two months to create a better versoion of that document. That version was shown to only two people from FactCheck – neither of them has seen a legitimate Hawaii certificate prior to that point.

    If you have more questions feel free to ask.

  264. avatar
    nc1 January 27, 2011 at 3:19 am #

    obsolete: I don’t think they can pass a law that immediately disqualifies anyone Jewish or Italian from running for President- That is what the law does.

    A natural born US citizen would be disqualified only if that person, as an adult, accepted foreign citizenship.

  265. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 27, 2011 at 3:23 am #

    nc1:
    A natural born US citizen would be disqualified only if that person, as an adult, accepted foreign citizenship.

    Like Thomas Jefferson?

  266. avatar
    obsolete January 27, 2011 at 3:31 am #

    I’ll wade through some of nc1’s pure bullshit.

    nc1: Obama faitfull crowd won’t tell you that the rules have changed in Hawaii one year AFTER the first eligibility lawsuit was filed. The DOH will issue a COLB by default but if you need the original you have tp ask for it explicitly.

    You don’t get the original, in any state, EVER. Hawaii periodically modifies its own rules and formats regarding vital records. None of it has to do with Obama.

    nc1: They will also not tell you that the registration number shown on Obama’s COLb does not fit the Date Filed (August 8, 1961), when compared to a legitimate long form birth certificate for Nordyke twins (born on August 5, 1961)

    Obama’s matches, the Nordyke’s is out of order.

    nc1: They will certainly not tell you that the first image of Obama’s COLB appeared on a left wing web site “Daily Kos”, it did not show the state seal (as legitimate copy should have) and the bottom folding crease is not visible.

    They are visible in the large scan, and others have shown that simple tweaking with Photoshop filters makes them more visible.

    nc1: The registration number field was blacked out – which according to the same document invalidates it.

    Do you really believe that blacking out the number on a scan of a document invalidates the actual document? When someone places black bars over someone’s eyes in a photo to disguise identity, does that person suffer blindness as a result?

    nc1: They cannot logically explain these deficiencies – they will call you names once you point out the problems wih Obama’s alleged birth certificate.

    There are no deficiencies with Obama’s COLB. And pointing out your stupidity and lies may be mean, but you should expect that kind of treatment after promoting the same discredited and debunked nonsense for two years.

    Here is an OFFICIAL Hawaiian Government page with “responses to frequently asked questions related to all records and documents maintained by the Hawaii State Department of Health (DOH) related to the vital records of President Barack Hussein Obama II”
    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    If nc1 and other birthers would actually go there and read it, they would realize that all they are doing is spreading falsehoods in an effort to undermine our President in a time of war.

  267. avatar
    nc1 January 27, 2011 at 3:32 am #

    Daniel: You seem to be confused about the definition of the word “fact”.

    Why don’t you educate us and expain the meaning of the “written down” thing in the archive? That is what Abercrombie said to the newspaper reporter.

    He was on a mission to prove birthers wrong yet could not find the long form birth certificate, just the “written down” thing.

  268. avatar
    obsolete January 27, 2011 at 3:33 am #

    nc1: A natural born US citizen would be disqualified only if that person, as an adult, accepted foreign citizenship.

    Obama never accepted his British or Kenyan citizenship. So finally we are in agreement that being a duel citizen did not remove Obama’s eligibility.

  269. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 27, 2011 at 3:33 am #

    nc1:
    Obama faitfull crowd won’t tell you that the rules have changed in Hawaii one year AFTER the first eligibility lawsuit was filed. The DOH will issue a COLB by default but if you need the original you have tp ask for it explicitly.

    And this matters why?

    They will also not tell you that the registration number shown on Obama’s COLb does not fit the Date Filed (August 8, 1961), when compared to a legitimate long form birth certificate for Nordyke twins (born on August 5, 1961)

    Since you have no other numbers, you have no idea which one is out of sequence.

    They will certainly not tell you that the first image of Obama’s COLB appeared on a left wing web site “Daily Kos”, it did not show the state seal (as legitimate copy should have) and the bottom folding crease is not visible. The registration number field was blacked out – which according to the same document invalidates it.

    What nc1 will not tell you is that the document posted online has been confirmed to be an image of President Obama’s birth certificate by Dr. Fukino (in official statements and testimony).

    They cannot logically explain these deficiencies

    Nothing that you pointed out is a deficiency – they are just irrelevancies, statements unsupported by evidence and lies.

    – they will call you names once you point out the problems wih Obama’s alleged birth certificate.

    Onionhead.

    They also cannot explain why is it that it took two months to create a better versoion of that document.

    It didn’t – the reasonable supposition is that the Obama campaign obtained the document in 2007 and has possessed it ever since.

    That version was shown to only two people from FactCheck – neither of them has seen a legitimate Hawaii certificate prior to that point.If you have more questions feel free to ask.

    So I guess that it is a good thing that we have independent confirmation from Dr. Fukino that the BC is legit and the two people at FactCheck were right… πŸ˜‰ Feel free to keep any more of your lies to yourself.

  270. avatar
    obsolete January 27, 2011 at 3:34 am #

    I’ll wade through some of nc1’s pure BS.

    nc1: Obama faitfull crowd won’t tell you that the rules have changed in Hawaii one year AFTER the first eligibility lawsuit was filed. The DOH will issue a COLB by default but if you need the original you have tp ask for it explicitly.

    You don’t get the original, in any state, EVER. Hawaii periodically modifies its own rules and formats regarding vital records. None of it has to do with Obama.

    nc1: They will also not tell you that the registration number shown on Obama’s COLb does not fit the Date Filed (August 8, 1961), when compared to a legitimate long form birth certificate for Nordyke twins (born on August 5, 1961)

    Obama’s matches, the Nordyke’s is out of order.

    nc1: They will certainly not tell you that the first image of Obama’s COLB appeared on a left wing web site “Daily Kos”, it did not show the state seal (as legitimate copy should have) and the bottom folding crease is not visible.

    They are visible in the large scan, and others have shown that simple tweaking with Photoshop filters makes them more visible.

    nc1: The registration number field was blacked out – which according to the same document invalidates it.

    Do you really believe that blacking out the number on a scan of a document invalidates the actual document? When someone places black bars over someone’s eyes in a photo to disguise identity, does that person suffer blindness as a result?

    nc1: They cannot logically explain these deficiencies – they will call you names once you point out the problems wih Obama’s alleged birth certificate.

    There are no deficiencies with Obama’s COLB. And pointing out your stupidity and lies may be mean, but you should expect that kind of treatment after promoting the same discredited and debunked nonsense for two years.

    Here is an OFFICIAL Hawaiian Government page with “responses to frequently asked questions related to all records and documents maintained by the Hawaii State Department of Health (DOH) related to the vital records of President Barack Hussein Obama II”
    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    If nc1 and other birthers would actually go there and read it, they would realize that all they are doing is spreading falsehoods in an effort to undermine our President in a time of war.

  271. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 27, 2011 at 3:49 am #

    Sean: If so, would this give the Supreme Court a opportunity to define “Natural Born Citizen” Constitutionally?

    It would give it oppertunity, but most likely it wouldn’t get that far. The Supreme Court tends to take only 2 types of cases:

    1. Constitutional Question where the lower courts (that’s Circuit Courts and State Supreme Courts) have reached different decisions on the law.

    2. Constitutional Question where the lower court is in clear error in their reasoning.

    What would likely happen with this case (abbriviated form) is this, if this even passes:

    1. District Court would find law unconstitutional because of adding requirements to the Constitution’s requirements for President.

    2. State of Arizona appeals law to 9th Circuit Court (or whatever)

    3. Circuit Court upholds ruling of District Court, citing U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, among other cases.

    4. State of Arizona appeals ruling to the U.S. Supreme Court.

    5. U.S. Supreme Court denies writ of certartori without comment.

  272. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 27, 2011 at 3:57 am #

    dunstvangeet:
    […] 5. U.S. Supreme Court denies writ of certartori without comment.

    You clearly don’t understand the bither’s sophisticated ‘underpants gnome’-type plan:

    1. Pass ‘birther’ law

    2. ???????

    3. Remove the usurper

  273. avatar
    The Magic M January 27, 2011 at 4:42 am #

    > Circuit Court upholds ruling of District Court, citing U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, among other cases.

    It wouldn’t even have to cite WKA if the AZ law passes as the bill formulates it.
    Violation of the Full Faith And Credit Clause plus implicit imposition of requirements such as “born in a hospital” or “having lived in the US for 14 years immediately prior to the election” will be enough to toss that law.

  274. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    obsolete: I’ll wade through some of nc1β€²s pure BS.

    nc1 is a crank, like Holocaust deniers, Truthers, moon landing deniers and the rest of the catalog.

  275. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    Slartibartfast:
    You clearly don’t understand the bither’s sophisticated underpants gnome’-type plan:1.Pass birther’ law2.???????3.Remove the usurper

    I think 2 is start a collective birther circle jerk

  276. avatar
    ellid January 27, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    nc1 –

    For the hundredth time (at least), please produce proof that you are neither Orly Taitz nor a Balkan war criminal. Otherwise, kindly find a new hobby.

  277. avatar
    Sef January 27, 2011 at 11:18 am #

    The Magic M: > Circuit Court upholds ruling of District Court, citing U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, among other cases.It wouldn’t even have to cite WKA if the AZ law passes as the bill formulates it.
    Violation of the Full Faith And Credit Clause plus implicit imposition of requirements such as “born in a hospital” or “having lived in the US for 14 years immediately prior to the election” will be enough to toss that law.

    And their own favorite son, John McCain, would not have been able to pass the test, since he was not born in one of the United States. Aside from the FF&C clause, no state is going to give up its primary document attesting to a person’s birth from their archives. These nutter legislators just don’t have a clue.

  278. avatar
    DCH January 27, 2011 at 11:29 am #

    “need help: A birther is telling me that Obama’s COLB is not a Certificate.”

    This is a clear sign you are dealing with a rabies infected birther in the advanced stage of the “COLB” syndrome.

    Slowly back away from the birther. This partcular delusion is considered incurable. No amount of evidence will convince them of reality. The only “treatment” is for them to contribute to a birther grifter laike Orly or Kreep via paypal so they feel as if they are making progress in removing the POTUS from office.

  279. avatar
    gorefan January 27, 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    Did NBC decide to end the “nativeborncitizen” blog?

    Good luck NBC. Looks like you get your life back.

  280. avatar
    Greg January 27, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    misha:
    Obama will be re-elected, and Cory Booker will follow. Better get used to it, Denialists.

    No, Al Gore will only be 68 when he takes office in 2016. That’s still younger than Reagan when he took office. And younger than Newt Gingrich who thinks he might be a contender in 2012. (Besides, unlike Booker, Gore’s already won the Presidency once!)

  281. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

    Sef: These nutter legislators just don’t have a clue.

    With birthers and other bigots, rationality, fairness and common sense are the first casualties.

  282. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 12:42 pm #

    sarina: The COLB said “Certificate No” on the right of the document and on the bottom too. Why this birther is saying is not a Certificate?

    Severe brain damage from inbreeding and homemade alcohol.

  283. avatar
    Rickey January 27, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    It’s not clear Hawaii does it differently than Washington. If the adoption took place at the time of birth, I don’t think the COLB would say “amended” on it, here.

    You don’t think? Apparently not.

    First of all, the statute that document is referring to went into effect in 1981, so it is irrelevant to Obama’s birth certificate.

    Second, the statute clearly states that names of the adoptive parents only go on a “supplementary birth certificate,” which is not issued until after DOH receives a certified copy of the adoption decree.

    Obama was born on August 4, 1961. The birth certificate showing his parents to be Barack Obama and Stanley Ann Dunham was filed four days later. Somehow I doubt that it was possible to finalize an adoption in four days or less, especially when you consider that August 5 and August 6 fell on Saturday and Sunday, when the courts were closed. .

    Third, Obama’s COLB does not say that it is an amended certificate or a supplementary certificate.

    Fourth, there is no evidence that Obama was ever adopted.

    Fifth, even if he was adopted, it doesn’t matter. He was born in Hawaii, so he is a natural-born citizen regardless of who his birth parents were.

  284. avatar
    Sef January 27, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    gorefan: Did NBC decide to end the “nativeborncitizen” blog?Good luck NBC. Looks like you get your life back.

    It looks like it’s in a state where only Mario can comment, with no ability to refute his wild claims. NBC should do some cleanup so that his rantings won’t be the final word, or at least have a Real ConLaw expert have the final word.

  285. avatar
    Rickey January 27, 2011 at 1:08 pm #

    dunstvangeet:
    State of Arizona appeals law to 9th Circuit Court (or whatever)3. Circuit Court upholds ruling of District Court, citing U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, among other cases.

    I would expect the courts to cite U.S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton (93-1456), 514 U.S. 779 (1995), in which the Supreme Court ruled that states cannot impose eligibility requirements for Federal elective offices which are more stringent than those required by the Constitution.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/93-1456.ZO.html

  286. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    DCH: The only “treatment” is for them to contribute to a birther grifter laike Orly or Kreep

    There’s always Sharron Angle’s 2nd Amendment remedies. “And you know, I’m hoping that we’re not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/16/sharron-angle-floated-2nd_n_614003.html

    Orly Taitz is trying to incite a lone wolf. I wish Tuscon on her. After all, Sharron Angle recommends it.

  287. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    Rickey:
    You don’t think? Apparently not.First of all, the statute that document is referring to went into effect in 1981, so it is irrelevant to Obama’s birth certificate.Second, the statute clearly states that names of the adoptive parents only go on a “supplementary birth certificate,” which is not issued until after DOH receives a certified copy of the adoption decree.
    Obama was born on August 4, 1961. The birth certificate showing his parents to be Barack Obama and Stanley Ann Dunham was filed four days later. Somehow I doubt that it was possible to finalize an adoption in four days or less, especially when you consider that August 5 and August 6 fell on Saturday and Sunday, when the courts were closed. .Third, Obama’s COLB does not say that it is an amended certificate or a supplementary certificate.Fourth, there is no evidence that Obama was ever adopted.Fifth, even if he was adopted, it doesn’t matter. He was born in Hawaii, so he is a natural-born citizen regardless of who his birth parents were.

    You can arrange the adoption prior to the birth. It’s not clear if adopted children’s BC’s will say “amended”. It does matter if Obama is a colossal phony, at least to those who don’t blindly worship him.

  288. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 27, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    Rickey:
    I would expect the courts to cite U.S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton (93-1456), 514 U.S. 779 (1995), in which the Supreme Court ruled that states cannot impose eligibility requirements for Federal elective offices which are more stringent than those required by the Constitution.http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/93-1456.ZO.html

    In order to do that, the court would probably have to define what the current requirements are, which would require U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark. So, that case would make it into the discussion.

    There would also be the Full Faith and Credit Clause, whether states can say, “No, I don’t accept this short-form, even though the Federal Government does. I want the long-form.” That would probably need other citations of cases.

    Overall, the law would get hacked to pieces to basically be that the candidates have to submit a birth certificate (aka COLB) in order to run for President.

  289. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    Freddy N.: It does matter if Obama is a colossal phony, at least to those who don’t blindly worship him.

    Like Shrub? GW Bush: God told me to invade Iraq. Where are the WMDs?

    At least, Cheney and his cronies got their paws on the oil.

  290. avatar
    sarina January 27, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    Majority Will: Severe brain damage from inbreeding and homemade alcohol.

    Very appropriate comment and it makes me laugh! lol!

  291. avatar
    Scientist January 27, 2011 at 2:25 pm #

    The ridiclous Arizona law is part of a larger problem-the insane US electoral system, which places national elections in the hands of local poo-bahs, and partisan ones at that. The result is a thicket of laws regarding ballot access for minor parties/independents (not constitutional qualifications, but nuts and bolts like petition signatures). There are different rules for how people are registered, who can vote (some states ban felons after release, some don’t) and how ballots are prepared and counted. The results, as we have all seen, are messes like Florida in 2000, the Minnesota Senate race in 2008 and many more. Who benefits? Only the lawyers who bill by the hour to fight these battles in court.

    Contrast that with how things are done in Canada. Federal elections are run by a non-partisan, professional civil service agency, Elections Canada. They prepare voter rolls and candidate lists, using uniform nationwide criteria. They count the votes (watched by party representatives, but they are in charge), which is done by hand and gives results just as quick or quicker than in the US. Court fights are few and far between, because they do a good job and leave few grounds for challenges. By the way, any ciitizen who is 18 or older on election day can run for any office, with no distiinctions between born citizens and naturalized ones (nor who a candidate’s parents were, nor whether they were a home or hospital birth). Canada seems to manage quite well leaving the decision regarding who is fit for office up to the voters.

  292. avatar
    JoZeppy January 27, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    dunstvangeet: In order to do that, the court would probably have to define what the current requirements are, which would require U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark. So, that case would make it into the discussion.There would also be the Full Faith and Credit Clause, whether states can say, “No, I don’t accept this short-form, even though the Federal Government does. I want the long-form.” That would probably need other citations of cases.Overall, the law would get hacked to pieces to basically be that the candidates have to submit a birth certificate (aka COLB) in order to run for President.

    I don’t see a need to mention Wong Kim Ark. The bill does not define NBC, so why discuss it? The long form B.S. would get kicked out on the full faith and credit clause. The dual citizen section gets booted under US Term Limits (although I suppose you could argue that raises the questions of NBC, and you could back door it that way, but introducing WKA would be like trying to prove a negative…dual citizenship has never entered into the equation, and leave it at that, and see how Ariz comes back), and of course the 14 year prior also gets booted on US Term Limits as an added requirement, since historically the 14 years has not been interpreted to mean the last consecutive 14 years….not to mention, there is nothing in the act making sections severable, so once you hit full faith and credit, the whole thing is dead.

    I’m glad that despite an estimated 2011 $1billion shortfall that the state legislature fully funds its attorneys and makes them defend legislation that any 1L at a decent law school can tell you doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in heck of surviving court challenge.

  293. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 2:36 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    You can arrange the adoption prior to the birth. It’s not clear if adopted children’s BC’s will say “amended”. It does matter if Obama is a colossal phony, at least to those who don’t blindly worship him.

    It’s far more important to expose criminally insane and un-American birther scum who wipe themselves with the Constitution and prey on people with with vile lies and myths to prop up their putrid bigotry and deranged narcissism.

  294. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    sarina:
    Very appropriate comment and it makes me laugh! lol!

    It may be hyperbole but it might not be far from the truth either.

  295. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    JoZeppy: I’m glad that despite an estimated 2011 $1billion shortfall that the state legislature fully funds its attorneys and makes them defend legislation

    Like the Dover, PA school district spending enormous sums, to defend teaching Intelligent Design – instead of spending it on progressive education.

  296. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    Scientist: Contrast that with how things are done in Canada.

    We’re still using the Farenheit scale, along with a refusal to use the metric system.

    And you expect intelligence in other areas?

  297. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 27, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    JoZeppy:
    I don’t see a need to mention Wong Kim Ark.The bill does not define NBC, so why discuss it?The long form B.S. would get kicked out on the full faith and credit clause.The dual citizen section gets booted under US Term Limits (although I suppose you could argue that raises the questions of NBC, and you could back door it that way, but introducing WKA would be like trying to prove a negative…dual citizenship has never entered into the equation, and leave it at that, and see how Ariz comes back), and of course the 14 year prior also gets booted on US Term Limits as an added requirement, since historically the 14 years has not been interpreted to mean the last consecutive 14 years….not to mention, there is nothing in the act making sections severable, so once you hit full faith and credit, the whole thing is dead.I’m glad that despite an estimated 2011 $1billion shortfall that the state legislature fully funds its attorneys and makes them defend legislation that any 1L at a decent law school can tell you doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in heck of surviving court challenge.

    Actually, the argument defending it (if Arizona even tries to defend this POS) will be that the bill doesn’t impose new requirements upon the office of the Presidency, it just forces you to produce documentation that you are eligible, with the affidavit on that you have no foreign citizenship going to the definition of Natural Born Citizen. Legally, the court will take a look at U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark for that definition.

    If the court was to deconstruct this law, and declare parts of it constitutional, and parts of it not-constitutional, they’d have to touch on the definition of Natural-Born Citizen (as well as the definition of resident for 14 years). That’s where U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark would come in.

  298. avatar
    Black Lion January 27, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    I think we should recognize that even when you point out to the birthers that Evans has admitted that the governor NEVER said anything regarding President Obama or the BC, some still are under the impression that the governor really said something like that. Which is why places like WND lie. They know that the lie will be discovered almost immediately, but they also know that the core group of birthers and Obama haters will prefer to believe the lie than acknowledge the truth. Which is WND lied when they claimed that Abercrombie said he could not find the BC. The transcript shows that WND lied. Then Evans’ claim was such an obvious lie that he had to walk it back and issue the statement that the Governor never told him that. But the damage is done. Birthers will believe the lie because it fits into the Obama narrative they want to believe. Which is why you can never win the argument. Their hatred is not based on any sort of proof, it is based on Obama derangement. And when pressed for proof, they will react like our birther posters like Freddy or NC1 and ignore the evidence. They then attempt to try and make it personal by claiming that somehow you are being paid, or all of the evidence proves nothing. He is still guilty. Birthers believe that wild speculation is proof. Which is why no matter what is submitted which will prove that Obama was born in HI, they will never believe that. So birthers will exist as long as Obama remains the President…

  299. avatar
    Rickey January 27, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    You can arrange the adoption prior to the birth. It’s not clear if adopted children’s BC’s will say “amended”. It does matter if Obama is a colossal phony, at least to those who don’t blindly worship him.

    You can agree to put up a child for adoption before birth, but you can’t do the legal paperwork until the child is actually born. Obama was born on a Friday and his birth was registered with DOH the following Tuesday. So you’re suggesting that they were able to finalize an adoption in one day, on Monday? Plus get all the certified documents which would have been required on that same day, and file them all with DOH in time to get a birth certificate the next day? Good luck with that – especially in a case where the adoptive father wasn’t an American citizen and was in the country on a student visa.

    Your entire scenario is incredibly far-fetched. And of course you haven’t got a scintilla of evidence for any of it.

    By the way, I don’t know anyone who worships Obama, blindly or otherwise. However, you seem to have a problem dealing with his popularity. Latest CNN poll on Obama’s job approval:

    Approve: 55%
    Disapprove” 44%

    Read ’em and weep.

    http://pollingreport.com/obama_job.htm

  300. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 4:31 pm #

    Lakin, the convicted birther coward is still clueless.

    And evidently, his admission of guilt in court was less than sincere. His appeal for clemency might be tough since his personal diaries have been published for the public online. Lakin is also a fan of birther cesspools, American Spank-tater and the Pest and E-fail. Gee, I wonder where he gets his birther lies?

    http://www.caaflog.com/2011/01/26/ltc-lakins-prison-diaries/

    Pathetic disgrace.

  301. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    Black Lion: I think we should recognize that even when you point out to the birthers that Evans has admitted that the governor NEVER said anything regarding President Obama or the BC, some still are under the impression that the governor really said something like that. Which is why places like WND lie. They know that the lie will be discovered almost immediately, but they also know that the core group of birthers and Obama haters will prefer to believe the lie than acknowledge the truth. Which is WND lied when they claimed that Abercrombie said he could not find the BC. The transcript shows that WND lied. Then Evans’ claim was such an obvious lie that he had to walk it back and issue the statement that the Governor never told him that.But the damage is done. Birthers will believe the lie because it fits into the Obama narrative they want to believe. Which is why you can never win the argument. Their hatred is not based on any sort of proof, it is based on Obama derangement. And when pressed for proof, they will react like our birther posters like Freddy or NC1 and ignore the evidence. They then attempt to try and make it personal by claiming that somehow you are being paid, or all of the evidence proves nothing. He is still guilty.Birthers believe that wild speculation is proof.Which is why no matter what is submitted which will prove that Obama was born in HI, they will never believe that.So birthers will exist as long as Obama remains the President…

    The second I posted the foxnews story with Evans walking it back on Weaselzippers several of them claimed that Evans was “gotten to”. That he was made to shut up etc. Nevermind that he is a tabloid journalist no he must have been telling the truth because that’s what WND said all along.

  302. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    Black Lion: I think we should recognize that even when you point out to the birthers that Evans has admitted that the governor NEVER said anything regarding President Obama or the BC, some still are under the impression that the governor really said something like that. Which is why places like WND lie. They know that the lie will be discovered almost immediately, but they also know that the core group of birthers and Obama haters will prefer to believe the lie than acknowledge the truth. Which is WND lied when they claimed that Abercrombie said he could not find the BC. The transcript shows that WND lied. Then Evans’ claim was such an obvious lie that he had to walk it back and issue the statement that the Governor never told him that.But the damage is done. Birthers will believe the lie because it fits into the Obama narrative they want to believe. Which is why you can never win the argument. Their hatred is not based on any sort of proof, it is based on Obama derangement. And when pressed for proof, they will react like our birther posters like Freddy or NC1 and ignore the evidence. They then attempt to try and make it personal by claiming that somehow you are being paid, or all of the evidence proves nothing. He is still guilty.Birthers believe that wild speculation is proof.Which is why no matter what is submitted which will prove that Obama was born in HI, they will never believe that.So birthers will exist as long as Obama remains the President…

    The more anyone says about it, the more words that are out there, and the more words that the birther klan have to twist and distort to conform to what they want to believe

  303. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    The second I posted the foxnews story with Evans walking it back on Weaselzippers several of them claimed that Evans was “gotten to”.That he was made to shut up etc.Nevermind that he is a tabloid journalist no he must have been telling the truth because that’s what WND said all along.

    Yeah, like we didn’t see that coming. lol

  304. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 4:47 pm #

    I wonder if they are saying that Adams was gotten to as well now that he has sworn under oath that the only knowledge he has of his claims is hearsay and did not come from looking at any of Hawaii’s birth records

  305. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 4:47 pm #

    “. . . they also know that the core group of birthers and Obama haters will prefer to believe the lie than acknowledge the truth.

    As demonstrated daily by the delusional birthers who post here with same debunked crap ad nauseam with nothing but their paranoid, unfounded speculations.

    Birther: “I have my doubts.”

    WTF are you and WTF cares?

  306. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: I wonder if they are saying that Adams was gotten to as well now that he has sworn under oath that the only knowledge he has of his claims is hearsay and did not come from looking at any of Hawaii’s birth records

    Fut you should really join in the weaselzipper fun. At least the weasel site is more readable than the Gretawire format

  307. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    Rickey: You can agree to put up a child for adoption before birth, but you can’t do the legal paperwork until the child is actually born. Obama was born on a Friday and his birth was registered with DOH the following Tuesday. So you’re suggesting that they were able to finalize an adoption in one day, on Monday? Plus get all the certified documents which would have been required on that same day, and file them all with DOH in time to get a birth certificate the next day? Good luck with that – especially in a case where the adoptive father wasn’t an American citizen and was in the country on a student visa.

    Your entire scenario is incredibly far-fetched. And of course you haven’t got a scintilla of evidence for any of it.

    Birthers lack common sense or even the basic understanding of the concept of Occam’s Razor or that baseless speculations are meaningless without credible evidence.

  308. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Fut you should really join in the weaselzipper fun.At least the weasel site is more readable than the Gretawire format

    Can I cuss them out? Gimme the link, Bob

  309. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Can I cuss them out? Gimme the link, Bob

    lol here’s the newest thread I’ve been in. In another thread I had several whining begging that I be banned

  310. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    lol here’s the newest thread I’ve been in.In another thread I had several whining begging that I be banned

    http://weaselzippers.us/2011/01/27/number-of-states-developing-laws-requiring-presidential-candidates-to-show-proof-of-natural-born-citizen-status-now-up-to-10/#comment-38388

  311. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    lol here’s the newest thread I’ve been in.In another thread I had several whining begging that I be banned

    Good job!

  312. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Good job!

    I keep getting the “You’re on the DNC payroll retort.” In face one guy today said it 5 times in the same post.

  313. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    I keep getting the “You’re on the DNC payroll retort.”In face one guy today said it 5 times in the same post.

    He’s a Fisher Price See ‘n Say that’s stuck on OINK.

  314. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    Rickey:
    You can agree to put up a child for adoption before birth, but you can’t do the legal paperwork until the child is actually born. Obama was born on a Friday and his birth was registered with DOH the following Tuesday. So you’re suggesting that they were able to finalize an adoption in one day, on Monday? Plus get all the certified documents which would have been required on that same day, and file them all with DOH in time to get a birth certificate the next day? Good luck with that – especially in a case where the adoptive father wasn’t an American citizen and was in the country on a student visa.
    Your entire scenario is incredibly far-fetched. And of course you haven’t got a scintilla of evidence for any of it.By the way, I don’t know anyone who worships Obama, blindly or otherwise. However, you seem to have a problem dealing with his popularity. Latest CNN poll on Obama’s job approval:Approve: 55%
    Disapprove” 44%Read em and weep.http://pollingreport.com/obama_job.htm

    If the mother is married to the adoptive father, then the paperwork could easily be set up prior to the birth. I’m not interested in Obama’s poll numbers, unlike you I don’t have an emotional investment in his popularity.

  315. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 5:32 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    If the mother is married to the adoptive father, then the paperwork could easily be set up prior to the birth. I’m not interested in Obama’s poll numbers, unlike you I don’t have an emotional investment in his popularity.

    No you have an emotional investment in stupidity. It would be damned near impossible for a student on a visa to adopt in America

  316. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 5:55 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    No you have an emotional investment in stupidity.It would be damned near impossible for a student on a visa to adopt in America

    You like to mouth off without knowing what you are talking about. HRS §578-1: “Who may adopt.. Any proper adult person…married to the legal father or mother of a minor child…”

  317. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 5:57 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    You like to mouth off without knowing what you are talking about. HRS §578-1:“Who may adopt.. Any proper adult person…married to the legal father or mother of a minor child…”

    You’ve never adopted have you? They do a pretty thorough background check once they looked into the father’s background and see that he has another wife in Kenya they would see that that’s not conducive to the raising of a child and deny him.

  318. avatar
    Rickey January 27, 2011 at 6:00 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    If the mother is married to the adoptive father, then the paperwork could easily be set up prior to the birth.

    The adoption papers can’t even be filed until the child is born. The adoption has to be done with the consent of the birth father.

    A petition for relinquishment in Hawaii can be signed any time during the last trimester. However, the consent cannot be executed until after the child’s birth. After the child is born, the birth parents (or, in your scenario, the birth father) must submit a reaffirmation of the intention to relinquish. The adoption petition then has to be approved by the Hawaii Department of Human Serviices.

    On top of that, it typically takes 2-3 months for an infant adoption in Hawaii to be finalized.

    http://domestic-infant.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/adopting-in-hawaii

    And since the birth mother, Stanley Ann, was not relinquishing the baby, there would have been no urgency to try to push through the adoption in 24 hours. And in any event Hawaii DOH would first have to file a birth certificate which named the birth father.

    So you entire scenario collapses under the weight of its inherent implausibility.

  319. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 6:04 pm #

    Rickey: So you entire scenario collapses under the weight of its inherent implausibility.

    Why are so many birthers obviously mentally unstable?

  320. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 6:06 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    You’ve never adopted have you?They do a pretty thorough background check once they looked into the father’s background and see that he has another wife in Kenya they would see that that’s not conducive to the raising of a child and deny him.

    Would any state allow a teenager living at home adopt a child?

  321. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 6:07 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Would any state allow a teenager living at home adopt a child?

    Unfortunately for freddy he can’t put his mother’s basement down as a separate address

  322. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 6:16 pm #

    Rickey:
    The adoption papers can’t even be filed until the child is born. The adoption has to be done with the consent of the birth father.
    A petition for relinquishment in Hawaii can be signed any time during the last trimester. However, the consent cannot be executed until after the child’s birth. After the child is born, the birth parents (or, in your scenario, the birth father) must submit a reaffirmation of the intention to relinquish. The adoption petition then has to be approved by the Hawaii Department of Human Serviices.On top of that, it typically takes 2-3 months for an infant adoption in Hawaii to be finalized.
    http://domestic-infant.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/adopting-in-hawaiiAnd since the birth mother, Stanley Ann, was not relinquishing the baby, there would have been no urgency to try to push through the adoption in 24 hours. And in any event Hawaii DOH would first have to file a birth certificate which named the birth father.
    So you entire scenario collapses under the weight of its inherent implausibility.

    If you read your own link, you would see the “relinquishment may be signed at any time after the expectant mother’s sixth month of pregnancy”, meaning all the paper work would be in place, and the adoption approved prior to the birth. The exectution would then have been a simple matter once little Barry was born.

  323. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    You’ve never adopted have you?They do a pretty thorough background check once they looked into the father’s background and see that he has another wife in Kenya they would see that that’s not conducive to the raising of a child and deny him.

    I don’t think Hawaiian background checks in those days included Kenyan tribal ceremonies.

  324. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 6:22 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    I don’t think Hawaiian background checks in those days included Kenyan tribal ceremonies.

    I’m sure when you were adopted they didn’t require the child to have a functional brain either.

  325. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    If you read your own link, you would see the “relinquishment may be signed at any time after the expectant mother’s sixth month of pregnancy”, meaning all the paper work would be in place, and the adoption approved prior to the birth. The exectution would then have been a simple matter once little Barry was born.

    Which would then require a change of name and changes in the birth certificate which would be amended

  326. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    So I was trying to figure out which states only release short form certificates and came across something interesting. Arizona’s own Department of Health no longer issues Long forms to children born after 1989. So in 14 years a child running from Arizona would be disqualified under their birther bill

    http://www.vitalchek.com/agency_info.aspx?t=birth&p=20245&s=loc

    BIRTH LONG
    A certified birth certificate that can typically be used for travel, passport, proof of citizenship, social security, driver’s license, school registration, personal identification and other legal purposes. The Birth Certificate – Long is available for events that occurred within the State of Arizona from 1903 to 1989.

  327. avatar
    Scientist January 27, 2011 at 6:29 pm #

    Freddy is right guys. There is absolutely no doubt that Barack Obama was adopted. His real parents were Don Ho and Bette Midler. They met at a luau and had sex on the beach, but stardom was calling, so they gave up the child so they could continue to bring joy to our meager little lives.

    Now, can we move on???

  328. avatar
    Rickey January 27, 2011 at 6:43 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    If you read your own link, you would see the “relinquishment may be signed at any time after the expectant mother’s sixth month of pregnancy”, meaning all the paper work would be in place, and the adoption approved prior to the birth. The exectution would then have been a simple matter once little Barry was born.

    My reading comprehension clearly is superior to yours.

    The link says that the petition can be signed during the last trimester. It says nothing about approving an adoption prior to the birth. In fact, the adoption cannot, at a minimum, be approved until after the biological parent(s) submit a written “reaffirmation of their desires to relinquish” after the child is born. This is a common-sense requirement, because it is well-known that biological parents have been known to change their minds about putting a child up for adoption once the child is born.

    However, by all means do not let facts interfere with your birther fantasies.

  329. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 27, 2011 at 6:52 pm #

    I posted this in response to a person that was ‘just asking why President Obama wouldn’t release his long form’ here – maybe Freddy or nc1 or a new sockpuppet can answer the questions I ask in response:

    [To any ‘eligibility questioner’],

    You ask, ‘why wont he?’ – I ask, ‘why should he?’. To try help you to understand my point of view (which I believe is similar to that of any US court), here is how I see events as having unfolded:

    Questions were raised about then candidate Obama’s eligibility for office.[This was a perfectly reasonable thing to do.] As there was no question that he was 35 years of age and had resided in the US for 14 years, the only point that needed verifying was his birth on US soil – [there might be other circumstances which make a child a natural born citizen, but all Constitutional authorities agree that birth in the US is sufficient for natural born citizenship (excepting children of diplomats or invading armies – neither of which applies in this case)]. The natural choice to verify birth on US soil would be the document one received in response to a request to the state of Hawai’i for a ‘birth certificate’ – a COLB. The Obama campaign posted an image of this document on their website and invited media outlets to examine it. [This document was most likely obtained by the campaign from Hawai’i in 2007 for purposes of demonstrating US birth as necessary.] The authenticity of this document has been verified by the official statements of Dr. Fukino as well as her testimony to the Hawai’ian legislature where she confirmed the images posted on the web to be of President Obama’s birth certificate [a document, by the way, which would be accepted as proof of natural born citizenship in any court in the land]. The response to this was that within days there were people claiming to have evidence’ that these images were forged and making false accusations regarding the circumstances of his birth based on their faked evidence’ of fraud. Since we now know the images to be legitimate, we must conclude that people such as ‘Dr. Polarik’ and ‘techdude’ were telling lies about COLB in an effort to delegitimize a presidential candidate. Since these lies assumed that Dr. Dunham had somehow acted fraudulently (presumably by registering the birth under false pretenses [This doesn’t quite make sense, however, because had this been the case there is no reason that President Obama would have known about it or would have had any reason to alter any of the information on the COLB]), Dr. Polarik and techdude both told lies about the president’s dead mother in an effort to further a coup against the government of the United States and illegally oust the lawfully elected president from power (during wartime, no less). Is this appropriate behavior for American citizens? I don’t think so – and yet many eligibility advocates believe their lies even today and no one in the eligibility movement has shown the integrity to denounce them. In addition, some people questioning eligibility have spewed (and continue to spew) some of the most vile, bigoted, hate-filled seditious speech you could imagine all the while talking about what patriots they are. Why should the president give these people any additional information? Prior experience suggests that these people will just use it to make up more lies to use against him and that they will ignore any part of it which does not conform to their biases. You may be honest in saying that a long form birth certificate (at least one that conformed to your expectations) would satisfy you, but most of the people in the eligibility movement have made it clear that it would not satisfy them as to the president’s eligibility, so, I ask you:

    Why should he?

    Ultimately, eligibility wont play a role in the 2012 elections [This is all my opinion, but please remember it when it turns out to be true (I will admit it if it turns out that I’m incorrect, but I highly doubt that I’ll have to).] – the 2008 election was about who President Obama was and he answered that question to the satisfaction of a majority of voters – he has proved his eligibility and can confirm it with a document known to be in his possession. The 2012 election will be about the job President Obama has done – [the eligibility issue may be raised but the President will have no trouble getting on the ballot of all 50 states and the higher the profile of the eligibility issue, the better it will be for the president] – and judging from CNN’s latest poll, most Americans feel like President Obama is doing a pretty good job (55% approval/44% disapproval) [No modern president has failed to win re-election with an approval rating above 50%, by the way.] I’m sorry to be the one to tell you this, but the eligibility movement has foundered since its inception (in my opinion) because it turned away from the clarion call of the facts and thus has no good compass to determine which theories regarding eligibility have a shred of validity and which are based merely on lies. This has resulted in the widespread (throughout the eligibility movement, in any case) repetition of falsehoods to support the consensus [FALSE] assumption that President Obama is ineligible. You talk about judging people by their associations – fine. I’m not troubled by President Obama’s casual association with Bill Ayres years ago but I AM troubled by the eligibility movement’s association with people like ‘Dr. Polarik’ (liar), ‘techdude’ (liar), Tim Adams (a liar and an associate of racists), Dr. Orly Taitz (liar, incompetent lawyer, and bigot), Lucas Smith (forger, liar, and convicted felon), convicted felon Lakin (a cowardly ‘blue falcon’ who disobeyed the [LEGITIMATE*] orders of a Medal of Honor winner and in doing so put the heroic men and women fighting for us in Afghanistan at greater risk), Walter Fitzpatrick (former court-martialed Navy officer and current convict), and ‘Dr.’ Manning (felon, racist, and bigot) just to name a few… not to mention media outlets like World Net Daily and The Post and Email who see fit to routinely publish (but never retract) falsehoods regarding the president. Do you agree with all of the views of these people and organizations that the eligibility movement has associated itself with?

    *CF Lakin’s orders were legitimate even if President Obama was born on Krypton like he once said…

  330. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 7:03 pm #

    “Dr. Polarik and techdude both told lies about the president’s dead mother in an effort to further a coup against the government”

    A coup? Wow, those guys sound like trouble.

  331. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    “I’m not troubled by President Obama’s casual association with Bill Ayres years ago”

    I find his friendship with Ayers troubling. It reveals Obama’s true nature.

  332. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 7:08 pm #

    “The authenticity of this document has been verified by the official statements of Dr. Fukino”

    And doubt has been cast on those statements by Gov. Abercrombie.

  333. avatar
    Sean January 27, 2011 at 7:11 pm #

    <And since the birth mother, Stanley Ann, was not relinquishing the baby, there would have been no urgency to try to push through the adoption in 24 hours. And in any event Hawaii DOH would first have to file a birth certificate which named the birth father.
    So you entire scenario collapses under the weight of its inherent implausibility.

    Maybe the best and most logical scenerio is Stanley Ann and Barack Obama Sr. met, fell in love, married and had a son in Hawaii.

    This is what the evidence points to. Why give yourself headaches?

  334. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 7:11 pm #

    Freddy N.: “I’m not troubled by President Obama’s casual association with Bill Ayres years ago”I find his friendship with Ayers troubling. It reveals Obama’s true nature.

    Friendship? He barely knew the guy. He served on a board that rarely met.

  335. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 7:12 pm #

    Freddy N.: “The authenticity of this document has been verified by the official statements of Dr. Fukino”And doubt has been cast on those statements by Gov. Abercrombie.

    You guys create doubt where none exists. Abercrombie said he found the records.

  336. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 7:13 pm #

    Sean:
    Maybe the best and most logical scenerio is Stanley Ann and Barack Obama Sr. met, fell in love, married and had a son in Hawaii.This is what the evidence points to. Why give yourself headaches?

    If they were ever in love, it must not have lasted long. Shortly after Barry’s birth Dunham was living in Seattle.

  337. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 7:15 pm #

    Freddy N.: I find his friendship with Ayers troubling. It reveals Obama’s true nature.

    I find Cheney’s relationship with Halliburton and Iraq troubling. It reveals Cheney’s true nature.

  338. avatar
    Sean January 27, 2011 at 7:17 pm #

    Freddy N.: “I’m not troubled by President Obama’s casual association with Bill Ayres years ago”I find his friendship with Ayers troubling. It reveals Obama’s true nature.

    Obama wasn’t really freinds with Ayres, he just happened to know him. But if you have anything to do with education in the city of Chicago, you will know Bill Ayres.

  339. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 7:19 pm #

    Freddy N.: If they were ever in love, it must not have lasted long. Shortly after Barry’s birth Dunham was living in Seattle.

    Ann Dunham found out BHO Sr. was married to a woman in Kenya. They were never legally married.

  340. avatar
    Sean January 27, 2011 at 7:20 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    If they were ever in love, it must not have lasted long. Shortly after Barry’s birth Dunham was living in Seattle.

    And not long after, divorced. I wonder if that ever happened to anyone else in the US.

  341. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Friendship?He barely knew the guy.He served on a board that rarely met.

    Ayers has described himself as a “family friend” of Obama.They worked together, in the same office, and were neighbors. When Obama first ran for state office Ayers held a fundraiser for him in his home. Michele worked with Ayer’s wife Bernadine Dohrn at Sidley Austin.

  342. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 7:25 pm #

    misha:
    I find Cheney’s relationship with Halliburton and Iraq troubling. It reveals Cheney’s true nature.

    I find Cheney’s relationship with AIPAC troubling.

  343. avatar
    Sean January 27, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Ayers has described himself as a “family friend” of Obama.They worked together, in the same office, and were neighbors. When Obama first ran for state office Ayers held a fundraiser for him in his home. Michele worked with Ayer’s wife Bernadine Dohrn at Sidley Austin.

    The fundraiser you describe is one of a dozen in a single day.

  344. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    Freddy N.: I find Cheney’s relationship with AIPAC troubling.

    US foreign policy is set by oil companies and defense contractors, not the “Israel lobby.”

    See Eisenhower and the MIC.

  345. avatar
    JM January 27, 2011 at 7:33 pm #

    I haven’t said anything wrong, factually, you mindless followers.

    Abercrombie said there is no hospital birth certificate

    = OBAMA LIED ABOUT KAPI’OLANI, like I have told you for over a year now.

    Admit it and keep your sanity.

  346. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    misha:
    US foreign policy is set by oil companies and defense contractors, not the “Israel lobby.”See Eisenhower and the MIC.

    Wow, that’s delusional, even by your normal standards.

  347. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    Sean: And not long after, divorced. I wonder if that ever happened to anyone else in the US.

    No, it only happens to liberals. Conservatives are morally pure, like Ted Haggard. Conservative Christians never have pregnant teenagers. Sarah Palin is so pure and has the holy spirit in her, that she never has to use the toilet.

  348. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 7:37 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Ayers has described himself as a “family friend” of Obama.They worked together, in the same office, and were neighbors. When Obama first ran for state office Ayers held a fundraiser for him in his home. Michele worked with Ayer’s wife Bernadine Dohrn at Sidley Austin.

    Where did Ayers describe himself as a “family friend”. They worked together on an education project where he sat on a board of directors. You do know meetings are rare. As for Ayers holding a fundraiser, yes he did but he was one of many coffee gatherings where people sat and chatted about a candidate. The candidate was not at these gathering but it was rather a gathering of supporters. It just shows how little you know about our politics, how campaigns are run, etc. Add this to the list of stuff you can speak with no authority on. Oh wow Michele worked with Ayers wife. So how again did they have an actual friendship as opposed to a casual acquaintance?

  349. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 7:38 pm #

    Freddy N.: your normal standards

    Why, thank you. I have an image to uphold.

  350. avatar
    Scientist January 27, 2011 at 7:39 pm #

    Freddy N.: I find his friendship with Ayers troubling. It reveals Obama’s true nature.

    That he has friends? Sorry you don’t. Try being nicer and who knows…

  351. avatar
    obsolete January 27, 2011 at 7:39 pm #

    Freddy N.: Ayers has described himself as a “family friend” of Obama.They worked together, in the same office, and were neighbors. When Obama first ran for state office Ayers held a fundraiser for him in his home. Michele worked with Ayer’s wife Bernadine Dohrn at Sidley Austin.

    Based on that, I don’t find the relationship troubling at all. Obama and Ayers were well-known in Chicago Education, and Ayers had long ago given up his criminal past. Ayers is now a well-respected citizen, and only those who don’t believe in the Christian act of forgiven still attack him.
    You would probably attack decorated veteran and Presidential surgeon Dr. Jeremiah Wright as well.

  352. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 7:41 pm #

    obsolete: You would probably attack decorated veteran and Presidential surgeon Dr. Jeremiah Wright as well.

    He already has.

  353. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 7:42 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Where did Ayers describe himself as a “family friend”.They worked together on an education project where he sat on a board of directors.You do know meetings are rare.As for Ayers holding a fundraiser, yes he did but he was one of many coffee gatherings where people sat and chatted about a candidate.The candidate was not at these gathering but it was rather a gathering of supporters.It just shows how little you know about our politics, how campaigns are run, etc.Add this to the list of stuff you can speak with no authority on.Oh wow Michele worked with Ayers wife.So how again did they have an actual friendship as opposed to a casual acquaintance?

    It shows how little you know about politics that you dismiss the connections between the Obama’s and Ayers’. Look up who Ayers’ dad is. Look up who runs Sidley Austin, where both Obamas worked.

    Ayers said they were “family friends” in a new afterword to his memoir.

  354. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    obsolete:
    Based on that, I don’t find the relationship troubling at all. Obama and Ayers were well-known in Chicago Education, and Ayers had long ago given up his criminal past. Ayers is now a well-respected citizen, and only those who don’t believe in the Christian act of forgiven still attack him.
    You would probably attack decorated veteran and Presidential surgeon Dr. Jeremiah Wright as well.

    Wright’s a racist idiot. He wasn’t a surgeon, he was a cardiopulmonary technician. There’s no reason to forgive Ayers, he doesn’t regret setting bombs.

  355. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 7:46 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    It shows how little you know about politics that you dismiss the connections between the Obama’s and Ayers’. Look up who Ayers’ dad is. Look up who runs Sidley Austin, where both Obamas worked.Ayers said they were “family friends” in a new afterword to his memoir.

    You still haven’t established they had an actual friendship. On election day Ayers described the relationship like this: “Pal around together? What does that mean? Share a milkshake with two straws?” Ayers said in his first interview since the controversy began. “I think my relationship with Obama was probably like thousands of others in Chicago. And, like millions and millions of others, I wish I knew him better.”

    “The more serious point is that Obama was asked once more to defend something that ought to be at the very heart of democracy: the importance of talking to many people in this complicated and wildly diverse society, of listening with the possibility of learning something new, of speaking with the possibility of persuading or influencing others. … In a robust and sophisticated democracy, political leaders, indeed, all of us, would seek out ways to talk with many people who hold dissenting, even radical ideas.”

    Obama has continually been asked to defend something that ought to be at democracy’s heart: the importance of talking to as many people as possible in this complicated and wildly diverse society, of listening with the possibility of learning something new, and of speaking with the possibility of persuading or influencing others.
    The McCain-Palin attacks not only involved guilt by association, they also assumed that one must apply a political litmus test to begin a conversation.

    There was nothing more than a casual relationship. Not the friendship you try to describe.

  356. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 7:48 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Wright’s a racist idiot. He wasn’t a surgeon, he was acardiopulmonary technician. There’s no reason to forgive Ayers, he doesn’t regret setting bombs.

    ah figures you listened to a couple of clips on the TV and suddenly you think he’s a “Racist idiot”. I have to had it to you, you have all the nutjob talking points down pat. How many of Wright’s sermons did you actually watch?

  357. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 7:57 pm #

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110128/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate

    Hawaii bill would charge $100 for Obama birth info

  358. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 8:01 pm #

    Go ahead, suckers, help Hawaii balance their budget.

  359. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    Pay your 100 clams to find out you’re wrong. lmao

  360. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 8:06 pm #

    Hawaii bill would charge $100 for Obama birth info

    (AP) – 3 hours ago

    HONOLULU (AP) — Hawaii’s government would charge $100 for a copy of President Barack Obama’s birth records under a bill introduced in the state Legislature by five Democrats. The bill would change a privacy law barring the release of birth records unless the requester is someone with a tangible interest, such as a close family member or a court.

    The measure hasn’t been scheduled for a public hearing, a required step before it can move forward. A decision on considering the bill will be made by the House’s Democratic leadership and committee chairmen.

    The idea behind the measure is to end skepticism over Obama’s birthplace while raising a little money for a government with a projected budget deficit exceeding $800 million over the next two years.

    “If it passes, it will calm the birthers down,” said the bill’s primary sponsor, Rep. Rida Cabanilla. “All these people are still doubting it because they don’t want the birth certificate from Obama. They want it from our state office.”

    So-called “birthers” claim there’s no proof Obama was born in the United States, and he is therefore ineligible to be president. Many of the skeptics question whether he was actually born in Kenya, his father’s home country.

    The Obama campaign issued a certification of live birth in 2008, an official document from the state showing the president’s Aug. 4, 1961, birth date, his birth city and name, and his parents’ names and races.

    Hawaii’s former health director also has said she verified Obama’s original records. And notices were published in two local newspapers within days of his birth at a Honolulu hospital.

    Gov. Neil Abercrombie, who was a friend of Obama’s parents and knew him as a child, said last month he wanted to release more of the state’s birth information about Obama. But he ended the effort last week when the state attorney general told him that privacy laws bar disclosure of an individual’s birth documentation without the person’s consent.
    The new legislation to release records may run into similar legal problems because of Hawaii’s strong constitutional privacy protections, said Rep. John Mizuno, a co-sponsor of the bill.

    “If people really want to confirm Barack Obama is born in Hawaii, that’s fine,” Mizuno said. “I don’t have a problem with looking at innovative ways to bring revenue to the state. The taxpayers deserve a break.”

    The $100 fee would help offset the extra work by state employees who handle frequent phone calls and e-mails from people who believe Obama was born elsewhere, Cabanilla said.

    But the number of birther requests has been declining from the 10 to 20 weekly inquiries received early last year, according to the Department of Health.

    “Requests have decreased significantly over the years. Currently we receive anywhere from zero to five per week,” said department spokeswoman Janice Okubo.
    The Health Department is still reviewing the bill, Okubo said.

    House Health Committee Chairman Ryan Yamane didn’t immediately return messages seeking comment on whether he would hold a hearing on the bill.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110128/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_birth_certificate

  361. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 8:09 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Pay your 100 clams to find out you’re wrong. lmao

    They will. Birthers are idiots with no common sense. Make it $1,000.00.

  362. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 8:14 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Pay your 100 clams to find out you’re wrong. lmao

    And you know as well as all the sane people that the demented birther scum will just move the goalposts like current fright wing birther troll who keeps proving he’s an ass with every idiotic post.. They’ve never been interested in anything that proves their confirmation bias and blatant bigotry is wrong.

  363. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    Majority Will:
    And you know as well as all the sane people that the demented birther scum will just move the goalposts like current fright wing birther troll who keeps proving he’s an ass with every idiotic post.. They’ve never been interested in anything that proves their confirmation bias and blatant bigotry is wrong.

    Yeah, they’ll just claim that Hawaii is trying to scam them by selling them a fake birth certificate

  364. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    You still haven’t established they had an actual friendship.On election day Ayers described the relationship like this: “Pal around together? What does that mean? Share a milkshake with two straws?” Ayers said in his first interview since the controversy began. “I think my relationship with Obama was probably like thousands of others in Chicago. And, like millions and millions of others, I wish I knew him better.”“The more serious point is that Obama was asked once more to defend something that ought to be at the very heart of democracy: the importance of talking to many people in this complicated and wildly diverse society, of listening with the possibility of learning something new, of speaking with the possibility of persuading or influencing others. … In a robust and sophisticated democracy, political leaders, indeed, all of us, would seek out ways to talk with many people who hold dissenting, even radical ideas.”Obama has continually been asked to defend something that ought to be at democracy’s heart: the importance of talking to as many people as possible in this complicated and wildly diverse society, of listening with the possibility of learning something new, and of speaking with the possibility of persuading or influencing others.
    The McCain-Palin attacks not only involved guilt by association, they also assumed that one must apply a political litmus test to begin a conversation.There was nothing more than a casual relationship.Not the friendship you try to describe.

    The Ayers connection was Obama’s entryway into Chicago politics. Of course he would want to downplay their friendship now.

  365. avatar
    obsolete January 27, 2011 at 8:20 pm #

    Funny side note in a story about Rahm being placed back on Chicago’s mayoral ballet:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41291795/ns/politics-more_politics/
    “More than two dozen people testified on the residency issue at an election board hearing in December. The three-day hearing got progressively stranger as attorneys gave way to Chicago residents who filed objections to the candidacy, including one man who asked Emanuel if he caused the 1993 siege at Waco, Texas. ”

    Birthers- Don’t laugh at the poor fool who blamed Rahm for Waco. You laugh at him as we laugh at you- you are part of the same fringe nutters on the outside of the political process who expect everyone else to take your kook theories seriously. Meet your twin brothers.

  366. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 8:21 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    ah figures you listened to a couple of clips on the TV and suddenly you think he’s a “Racist idiot”.I have to had it to you, you have all the nutjob talking points down pat.How many of Wright’s sermons did you actually watch?

    Seeing the racist, crazy, ones is enough to know Wright is a racist crazy. It’s funny how Obama hardly goes to church anymore, now that he no longer can attend an openly racist one.

  367. avatar
    obsolete January 27, 2011 at 8:22 pm #

    Freddy N.: Wright’s a racist idiot.

    A textbook case of projection, if there ever was one!

  368. avatar
    obsolete January 27, 2011 at 8:25 pm #

    Freddy N.: It’s funny how Obama hardly goes to church anymore, now that he no longer can attend an openly racist one.

    Maybe you should forward to him the name of your church?

  369. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    Majority Will:
    And you know as well as all the sane people that the demented birther scum will just move the goalposts like current fright wing birther troll who keeps proving he’s an ass with every idiotic post.. They’ve never been interested in anything that proves their confirmation bias and blatant bigotry is wrong.

    Speaking of ass, notice how skinny Obama is lately? It’s interesting no one has been able to identify any of Barry’s college girlfriends, even though during the campaign his friends went out of their way to describe him ias being a “popular ladies man” in college.

  370. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    obsolete:
    Maybe you should forward to him the name of your church?

    I’m an atheist.

  371. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    The Ayers connection was Obama’s entryway into Chicago politics. Of course he would want to downplay their friendship now.

    Obama was already in politics before Ayers had a coffee get together that was one of many held on the same day. There was no friendship

  372. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Seeing the racist, crazy, ones is enough to know Wright is a racist crazy. It’s funny how Obama hardly goes to church anymore, now that he no longer can attend an openly racist one.

    So you looked in the mirror and tried to compare yourself to Wright? How do you know if Obama goes to church or not? Do you follow him around? Even if he didn’t go to church why is it any of your business?

  373. avatar
    Rickey January 27, 2011 at 8:33 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Michele worked with Ayer’s wife Bernadine Dohrn at Sidley Austin.

    Ah, the old Michelle Obama-Bernadine Dorhrn smear.

    Bernardine Dohrn worked at Sidley Austin from 1984-1988.She couldn’t work as an attorney, because Illinois wouldn’t admit her to the bar because of her criminal record.

    Michelle Obama graduated from Harvard Law School in 1988 and went to work at Sidley Austin that fall. At best, she and Dohrn worked there at the same time for a few months.

    And do you know how many attorneys are in the Sidley Austin firm? 1700! The chances that Michelle Obama and Bernadine Dohrn were even aware of each other at Sidley Austin is extremely slim.

  374. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 8:34 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Obama was already in politics before Ayers had a coffee get together that was one of many held on the same day.There was no friendship

    You’re saying Ayers is lying? Why would he do that? It’s a fact they worked together. It’s a fact Michele worked with Dohrn. It’s a fact these sorts of connections matter in politics, particularly Chicago politics. Don’t be so clueless. No one comes out of nowhere in Chicago politics.

  375. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 8:37 pm #

    Rickey:
    Ah, the old Michelle Obama-Bernadine Dorhrn smear.Bernardine Dohrn worked at Sidley Austin from 1984-1988.She couldn’t work as an attorney, because Illinois wouldn’t admit her to the bar because of her criminal record.Michelle Obama graduated from Harvard Law School in 1988 and went to work at Sidley Austin that fall.At best, she and Dohrn worked there at the same time for a few months.And do you know how many attorneys are in the Sidley Austin firm? 1700! The chances that Michelle Obama and Bernadine Dohrn were even aware of each other at Sidley Austin is extremely slim.

    And yet Obama gets picked to work with Dohrn’s husband. Small world!

    “he couldn’t work as an attorney, because Illinois wouldn’t admit her to the bar because of her criminal record”

    Indeed, the state bar has higher moral standards than the Obama’s.

  376. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    So you looked in the mirror and tried to compare yourself to Wright?How do you know if Obama goes to church or not?Do you follow him around?Even if he didn’t go to church why is it any of your business?

    I know he rarely goes to church because I read the newspaper. These things aren’t complicated.

  377. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    I was asking because that’s not what I think about when I hear that word, but you do. It wasn’t homophobic. If that’s your thing, that’s your thing

  378. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 8:43 pm #

    Well, at least you got something right here today

  379. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    You’re saying Ayers is lying? Why would he do that? It’s a fact they worked together. It’s a fact Michele worked with Dohrn. It’s a fact these sorts of connections matter in politics, particularly Chicago politics. Don’t be so clueless. No one comes out of nowhere in Chicago politics.

    Obviously people don’t just pump up their relationship with someone to try to get in with someone famous right? Old acquaintances in college coming after you when they find out you’re rich. The cheerleader from high school who now looks at you a different way? Saying you’re a good friend of Neil Abercrombie and saying he admitted to something when he never actually talked to you. Yeah people just don’t do that right. Michele worked at a law firm with over 1700 lawyers. You’re grasping at straws

  380. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 8:50 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    I know he rarely goes to church because I read the newspaper. These things aren’t complicated.

    What does it concern you whether he goes to church or not?

  381. avatar
    Scientist January 27, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    Freddy: I really hope the Republicans run their 2012 campaign on the arcane distinctions between birth certifcates and certificates of birth, Rev Wright, Bill Ayers and who Obama’s college girlfriends were. Along with whether he still sneaks a cigarette. That should make for quite a landslide.

  382. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 9:05 pm #

    Scientist: Freddy:I really hope the Republicans run their 2012 campaign onthe arcane distinctions between birth certifcates and certificates of birth, Rev Wright, Bill Ayers and who Obama’s college girlfriends were.Along with whether he still sneaks a cigarette.That should make for quite a landslide.

    And please nominate Palin. You betcha.

  383. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 9:07 pm #

    or maybe she will independently nominate herself

  384. avatar
    Scientist January 27, 2011 at 9:13 pm #

    Certificate of birth vs birth certificate. Reminds me of The Judean People’s Front vs The People’s Front of Judea
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

  385. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: or maybe she will independently nominate herself

    Maybe she can study up between now and then.

    “As we work and sightsee on America’s largest island, we’ll get to view more majestic bears, so now is a good time to draw attention to the political equivalent of the species.” –Sarah Palin, referring to Kodiak Island in Alaska, even though Hawaii is America’s biggest island, July 19, 2010

    “I want to help clean up the state that is so sorry today of journalism. And I have a communications degree.” –Sarah Palin, Fox News interview with Sean Hannity, Nov. 22, 2010

    “But obviously, we’ve got to stand with our North Korean allies.” –Sarah Palin, after being asked how she would handle the current hostilities between the two Koreas, interview on Glenn Beck’s radio show, Nov. 24, 2010

    “Because of that one episode, that one episode, that would turn an issue into what it has become over the last two years. I think that’s ridiculous. That’s one of those things, where that issue…that I don’t read, or that I’m not informed, it’s one of those questions where I like to turn that around and ask the reporters, ‘Why would it be that there is that perception that I don’t read?'” –Sarah Palin, ABC interview with Barbara Walters, Dec. 9, 2010

  386. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 9:30 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Speaking of ass, notice how skinny Obama is lately? It’s interesting no one has been able to identify any ofBarry’s college girlfriends, even though during the campaign his friends went out of their way to describe him ias being a “popular ladies man” in college.

    You make a lot of assumptions, little birther boy.

    That makes you an ass.

    It would be fascinating to see your viewpoint, but it would require a colonoscopy.

  387. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 9:30 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Maybe she can study up between now and then.“As we work and sightsee on America’s largest island, we’ll get to view more majestic bears, so now is a good time to draw attention to the political equivalent of the species.” –Sarah Palin, referring to Kodiak Island in Alaska, even though Hawaii is America’s biggest island, July 19, 2010“I want to help clean up the state that is so sorry today of journalism. And I have a communications degree.” –Sarah Palin, Fox News interview with Sean Hannity, Nov. 22, 2010“But obviously, we’ve got to stand with our North Korean allies.” –Sarah Palin, after being asked how she would handle the current hostilities between the two Koreas, interview on Glenn Beck’s radio show, Nov. 24, 2010“Because of that one episode, that one episode, that would turn an issue into what it has become over the last two years. I think that’s ridiculous. That’s one of those things, where that issue…that I don’t read, or that I’m not informed, it’s one of those questions where I like to turn that around and ask the reporters, β€˜Why would it be that there is that perception that I don’t read?’” –Sarah Palin, ABC interview with Barbara Walters, Dec. 9, 2010

    You know the Teabags don’t care about facts, Will. They will still vote for her instead of the GOP nominee even though she’s a ditz.

  388. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 9:33 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Why does it concern you when people point out Obama enjoyed attending a racist church, but is not interested in attending a non-racist church?

    How exactly did the church claim they were superior to white people in every way? You’re the one making the claim it is racist based on a personal reflection.

  389. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    Why does it concern you when people point out Obama enjoyed attending a racist church, but is not interested in attending a non-racist church?

    I’ll ask you again kiddo what does it concern you whether he goes to church or not? How often do you go to church?

  390. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 9:35 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    And yet none of his college girlfriends have come forward. How odd.

    How many girlfriends did he have in college? How many did you have? What does it matter?

  391. avatar
    Scientist January 27, 2011 at 9:41 pm #

    Freddy N.: And yet none of his college girlfriends have come forward. How odd.

    Nor have any college boyfriends, if that’s what you’re implying. It’s interesting that you guys trashed Bill Clinton because a whole bunch of his old girlfriends came forward and now you want to trash Obama because none of them have.

    How many of Bush’s girlfriends from his party days came forward? I know it may be a foreign concept to you, but some people have class and don’t feel they need to make public who they slept with 30 years ago,

  392. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 9:45 pm #

    Scientist:
    Nor have any college boyfriends, if that’s what you’re implying.It’s interesting that you guys trashed Bill Clinton because a whole bunch of his old girlfriends came forward and now you want to trash Obama because none of them have.How many of Bush’s girlfriends from his party days came forward?I know it may be a foreign concept to you, but some people have class and don’t feel they need to make public who they slept with 30 years ago,

    No college girlfriends and a wife who looks like a male gorilla. Nothing to see, folks, move right along.

  393. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    You obviously know nothing about his church. You’ve made it clear you don’t want to know anything about Obama’s background, and think others shouldn’t know about it either.

    I know plenty about his church. So I ask you how they thought they were superior to whites and you can’t say. If you’re going to call them racist at least back it up

  394. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    How smart is Obama? Maybe you could you link to some of the articles he published in legal journals when he was teaching law at the U. of Chicago.

    What does this have to do with eligibility?

  395. avatar
    Scientist January 27, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    Freddy-What church did George W Bush and Ronald Reagan belong to in Washington? Did they attend services regularly?

    Not that it matters to me, but siince it does to you…

  396. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 9:47 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    No college girlfriends and a wife who looks like a male gorilla. Nothing to see, folks, move right along.

    Wow now we get to the true reason you dislike Obama. You are really low if you think its okay to disrespect the first lady and make bigoted comments.

  397. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 9:48 pm #

    Scientist: Freddy-What church did George W Bush and Ronald Reagan belong to in Washington?Did they attend services regularly?Not that it matters to me, but siince it does to you…

    That doesn’t matter to freddy since they are both white

  398. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 9:53 pm #

    Freddy N.:
    No college girlfriends and a wife who looks like a male gorilla. Nothing to see, folks, move right along.

    Wow. You’re going to be late to your Stormfront meeting, you racist, hypocritical douche bag.

  399. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 9:57 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    You know the Teabags don’t care about facts, Will. They will still vote for her instead of the GOP nominee even though she’s a ditz.

    I say if the Teabags want some to vote for who is just like they are, by God, give them Sarah Palin.

    Let’s do a little math. In 2008 President Obama got 69.5 million votes. McCain got 60 million. In 2012, Obama will probably get about the same number of votes, 69.5 million. Palin will probably get at least 12 million if she runs as an independent, but she may get as high as 20 million. That means the GOP nominee will get around 48 to 40 million. Obama wins

  400. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 10:00 pm #

    In fact, if Palin runs as an independent, Obama could win with as few as 50 million votes

  401. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 27, 2011 at 10:02 pm #

    Freddy N.: No college girlfriends and a wife who looks like a male gorilla.

    You are no longer welcome at this web site. You are banned.

  402. avatar
    Freddy N. January 27, 2011 at 10:04 pm #

    Rickey:
    Ah, the old Michelle Obama-Bernadine Dorhrn smear.Bernardine Dohrn worked at Sidley Austin from 1984-1988.She couldn’t work as an attorney, because Illinois wouldn’t admit her to the bar because of her criminal record.Michelle Obama graduated from Harvard Law School in 1988 and went to work at Sidley Austin that fall.At best, she and Dohrn worked there at the same time for a few months.And do you know how many attorneys are in the Sidley Austin firm? 1700! The chances that Michelle Obama and Bernadine Dohrn were even aware of each other at Sidley Austin is extremely slim.

    How many lawyers were in Sidley’s Chicago office when Michele worked there? Probably around 200.

  403. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 10:07 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    I say if the Teabags want some to vote for who is just like they are, by God, give them Sarah Palin.Let’s do a little math. In 2008 President Obama got 69.5 million votes. McCain got 60 million. In 2012, Obama will probably get about the same number of votes, 69.5 million. Palin will probably get at least 12 million if she runs as an independent, but she may get as high as 20 million. That means the GOP nominee will get around 48 to 40 million. Obama wins

    I like your plan! Palin as the dreaded third candidate!

  404. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 10:08 pm #

    Freddy N.: Sidley Austin

    Nothing to mislead about Sidley Austin is a big firm from their own website

    Sidley is a global law firm, with approximately 1600 lawyers in 17 offices. We are privileged to serve clients across the entire spectrum of law, from complex transactions to “bet the company” litigation to cutting-edge regulatory issues.

    We describe here, in detail, our practices, our industries and our community commitments that continue a tradition of more than 140 years and that define and distinguish our firm.

    She worked there from 1984 to 1988

    Again from the sidley Austin website
    http://www.sidley.com/ourfirm/offices/office.aspx?office=1

    . More than 500 lawyers in the Chicago office work on a broad range of litigation, transactional and regulatory matters.

    You do know there are different divisions of lawyers within the Chicago office right?

    This is the building Sidley Austin is based in: http://www.hines.com/toolkit_images/Project%20Photos/One%20South%20Dearborn/One%20South%20Dearborn_lres_web.jpg

    They take up multiple floors. It is more than possible for two lawyers out of 500 not to know each other. I work for a company of 200 people I don’t know everyone who works there. The CEO doesn’t know all the people who work there. Now are you stupid or just willfully ignorant

  405. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 27, 2011 at 10:12 pm #

    Freddy N.: I’m not a birther

    If you’re not a birther, then you’re a troll.

  406. avatar
    misha January 27, 2011 at 10:15 pm #

    Freddy N.: a wife who looks like a male gorilla

    That’s what is really behind all this nonsense. No white man ever had to show his birth certificate.

    Here’s more, courtesy of shande Orly: http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2009/10/orly-taitz-racist.html

  407. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 10:17 pm #

    Majority Will:
    I like your plan!Palin as the dreaded third candidate!

    Sarah the Spoiler has kind of a nice ring to it doesn’t it, Will? lmao

  408. avatar
    Sean January 27, 2011 at 10:27 pm #

    Scientist: Certificate of birth vs birth certificate.Reminds me of The Judean People’s Front vs The People’s Front of Judea
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

    SPLITTA!!!

  409. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): They take up multiple floors. It is more than possible for two lawyers out of 500 not to know each other. I work for a company of 200 people I don’t know everyone who works there. The CEO doesn’t know all the people who work there. Now are you stupid or just willfully ignorant.

    Most likely both.

    Peter Gibbons: The thing is, Bob, it’s not that I’m lazy, it’s that I just don’t care.
    Bob Porter: Don’t… don’t care?
    Peter Gibbons: It’s a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don’t see another dime, so where’s the motivation? And here’s something else, Bob: I have eight different bosses right now.
    Bob Slydell: I beg your pardon?
    Peter Gibbons: Eight bosses.
    Bob Slydell: Eight?
    Peter Gibbons: Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That’s my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.

  410. avatar
    Sef January 27, 2011 at 10:31 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    I say if the Teabags want some to vote for who is just like they are, by God, give them Sarah Palin.Let’s do a little math. In 2008 President Obama got 69.5 million votes. McCain got 60 million. In 2012, Obama will probably get about the same number of votes, 69.5 million. Palin will probably get at least 12 million if she runs as an independent, but she may get as high as 20 million. That means the GOP nominee will get around 48 to 40 million. Obama wins

    Bull Moose Party all over again.

  411. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 10:44 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Sarah the Spoiler has kind of a nice ring to it doesn’t it, Will? lmao

    Que sarah, sarah. Whatever will be, will be.

  412. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 10:45 pm #

    And Doc if you come back with a tan, we have a right to be pissed.

  413. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 10:49 pm #

    Majority Will: And Doc if you come back with a tan, we have a right to be pissed.

    Especially if it’s one of them thar orange tans

  414. avatar
    Keith January 27, 2011 at 10:52 pm #

    misha: Orly Taitz is trying to incite a lone wolf. I wish Tuscon on her. After all, Sharron Angle recommends it.

    Its Tucson. And please, PLEASE, don’t turn my home town into a byword for assassination.

    Why don’t you wish Dallas on her? Or the Ambassador Hotel? Or Memphis? Or Cairo? Or Tel Aviv? Why wish assassination on anybody? She is ill, and needs medical attention, not extermination. Your call for extremist action is exactly what ‘we’ are trying to curb in the aftermath of the Tucson tragedy.

    Furthermore, the Arizona Legislature may be hell bent on lining the State Capitol Building dome with tin-foil, but that is all on the wing-nuts from up north (i.e. Phoenix). Southern Arizona (Pima County and Santa Cruz County) might as well be a different state.

  415. avatar
    Keith January 27, 2011 at 10:55 pm #

    misha: At least, Cheney and his cronies got their paws on the oil.

    Actually, I think the French got it. But your point is well taken otherwise.

  416. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 10:58 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Especially if it’s one of them thar orange tans

    You mean a “Boehner”? (My spell check keeps suggesting boner is the right word which is even more funny considering that was Bush’s pet nickname for John.)

  417. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 11:01 pm #

    lmao.

  418. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    Keith:
    Its Tucson. And please, PLEASE, don’t turn my home town into a byword for assassination.
    Why don’t you wish Dallas on her? Or the Ambassador Hotel? Or Memphis? Or Cairo? Or Tel Aviv? Why wish assassination on anybody? She is ill, and needs medical attention, not extermination. Your call for extremist action is exactly what we’ are trying to curb in the aftermath of the Tucson tragedy.Furthermore, the Arizona Legislature may be hell bent on lining the State Capitol Building dome with tin-foil, but that is all on the wing-nuts from up north (i.e. Phoenix). Southern Arizona (Pima County and Santa Cruz County) might as well be a different state.

    Excellent points.

  419. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 27, 2011 at 11:07 pm #

    Majority Will: And Doc if you come back with a tan, we have a right to be pissed.

    Because of the insects, I pretty much wore long sleeves and long pants most of the time. As a result any tanning is minimal, and mostly on my face.

  420. avatar
    Keith January 27, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    Freddy N.: I don’t think Hawaiian background checks in those days included Kenyan tribal ceremonies.

    That is a pathetic racist remark.

    What is the point of arguing back and forth whether or not Obama might possibly have been adopted and SAD granted the one and only instant adoption in history? Who gives a flying fornication? Adopted or not, he was born in Hawai’i.

    How does the vanishingly small possibility that he was the subject of an instant adoption have anything to do with his eligibility for the office of President? How does the FACT that his father was a bigamist have anything to do with his eligibility for the office of President?

    The answer to both questions is absolutely nothing. Zero. Nada. Nil.

    Yet you don’t attack the President for the FACT of his birth circumstance, you attack him for the FANTASY speculation about a vanishingly tiny possibility, about which there is enormous evidence against.

  421. avatar
    Keith January 27, 2011 at 11:21 pm #

    Freddy N.: “Dr. Polarik and techdude both told lies about the president’s dead mother in an effort to further a coup against the government”A coup? Wow, those guys sound like trouble.

    Well, they have attempted to infiltrate the military haven’t they?

  422. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 11:22 pm #

    That troll’s history, Keith, for obvious reasons

  423. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 11:31 pm #

    Some responses to the Hawaii law to release Obama’s birth certificate on weaselzippers. Quite predictable

    Joe says:
    January 27, 2011 at 7:21 pm

    He could have released it himself and saved our country a lot of trouble and expense if it’s real.
    ——————————————————
    myrtle says:
    January 27, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    It’s been established that there’s something embarressing or potentially fraudulent connected to O’s birth certificate besides, he’s got the control of FBI and CIA, does anyone think we could ever be sure we were looking at the REAL birth certificate even if he “released” it?
    ——————————————————
    tarpon says:
    January 27, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    Wouldn’t you rather see his citizenship papers and passport records?
    ——————————————————–
    barkerman says:
    January 27, 2011 at 7:39 pm

    They only have to release it once, and it’s all over the internet. What kind of a stupid person try’s to charge each person a 100 bucks – thinking it will need to happen more than once?
    ————————————————–
    The REAL Bob says:
    January 27, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Well anyway, perhaps some legal beagles here, lawyers, police, clerks and so on, who know all the ins and outs of crime, might enlighten me on some of the finer points of this high crime and felony.

    As near as I can tell, Obama has committed fraud, perjury, obstruction of justice, whatever signing a presidential order without any authority or jurisdiction to do it is called, being a usurper and so forth. And those who know/knew about it conspiracy to defraud and obstruct justice, and various misprisons of felonies

    This is so huge, I know there are more felonies he can be charged with.

    Barack Hussein Obama (or whatever his aka names are) CANNOT prove he is a natural born citizen if cannot produce a real birth certificate and that is sufficient to impeach AFTER he is arrested and charged with the crimes he has committed, along with all who aided and abetted him.
    ——————————————————
    Piker says:
    January 27, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    @The Real Bob: Impeachment is what you do to legitimate officials in legally held offices. Obama is a usurper and ineligible to hold that office, his mere presence in the office is an act of treason, as he knew perfectly well (being a constitutional scholar *coff-coff*) that he was ineligible to seek that office. He should be removed from the office in handcuffs and set before a military tribunal for the crime of high treason. Add to the list Nancy Pelosi for her role/derelictionof duty as well as for aiding and abetting and giving aid and comfort to this domestic enemy. Investigations forthwith with all major govt. players in this fraud. Clean the whole damn govt. of these vermin that covered for this crime.
    ————————————————–
    maraz says:
    January 27, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    It doesn’t matter where he was born… although I’m sure there’s still information that needs to be verified on a birth certificate…

    But he’s still not a Natural Born Citizen since both parents also need to be citizens born on U.S. soil… he fails that part of the definition.
    ————————————————————

  424. avatar
    Keith January 27, 2011 at 11:31 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): It is more than possible for two lawyers out of 500 not to know each other. I work for a company of 200 people I don’t know everyone who works there. The CEO doesn’t know all the people who work there. Now are you stupid or just willfully ignorant

    Probably never worked a day in his life, let alone in an org with more than 30 people in it.

  425. avatar
    Keith January 27, 2011 at 11:50 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: That troll’s history, Keith, for obvious reasons

    Yeah, I see. Now.

    I’m just trying to catch up (sequentially) after a few days in the bush for the Australia Day holiday. I went to a country race meeting at Hanging Rock and the darn thing was called off because kangaroos were invading the track and couldn’t be kept off!

    First time in history that a race meeting was called off due to kangaroos! Aussies are pretty serious about their horse races, and they don’t get called off or even delayed for the most dire of circumstances.

    The only other time entire meetings have been called off, to my recollection, was after an equine flu epidemic. Callaghan Park Race Course in Rockhampton Queensland is shut due to the floods and there are probably several country courses that are shut as well, but nobody is showing up on the day expecting races to go ahead.

  426. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 11:54 pm #

    Keith:
    Yeah, I see. Now.
    I’m just trying to catch up (sequentially) after a few days in the bush for the Australia Day holiday. I went to a country race meeting at Hanging Rock and the darn thing was called off because kangaroos were invading the track and couldn’t be kept off!
    First time in history that a race meeting was called off due to kangaroos! Aussies are pretty serious about their horse races, and they don’t get called off or even delayed for the most dire of circumstances.
    The only other time entire meetings have been called off, to my recollection, was after an equine flu epidemic. Callaghan Park Race Course in Rockhampton Queensland is shut due to the floods and there are probably several country courses that are shut as well, but nobody is showing up on the day expecting races to go ahead.

    Yeah, I hear they don’t like to mess with the kangaroos down there; they can get pretty nasty even for the Aussies

  427. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 27, 2011 at 11:56 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Some responses to the Hawaii law to release Obama’s birth certificateon weaselzippers. Quite predictableJoe says:
    January 27, 2011 at 7:21 pmHe could have released it himself and saved our country a lot of trouble and expense if it’s real.
    ——————————————————

    No real surprise there Fut. I was single handedly tearing them apart I gave it a rest for a while I’ll check back tomorrow to see how off topic they are and how many things already discredited they’re going to repeat

  428. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 27, 2011 at 11:59 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    No real surprise there Fut.I was single handedly tearing them apart I gave it a rest for a while I’ll check back tomorrow to see how off topic they are and how many things already discredited they’re going to repeat

    I saw you there on that other thread we were on. They kind of disappeared for about an hour when we were there before, and then one of them sneaked back on after we were gone. lol

  429. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 28, 2011 at 12:06 am #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    I saw you there on that other thread we were on. They kind of disappeared for about an hour when we were there before, and then one of them sneaked back on after we were gone. lol

    Yep they do that. They disappear for hours. Notice how it seems like the same poster keeps changing his handle to respond to me? On one of the threads he kept whining about me instead of talking about the topic They’ve discovered that both Black Lion and I come here so I’m waiting for the sudden influx of really stupid birthers

  430. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 28, 2011 at 12:12 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Yep they do that.They disappear for hours.Notice how it seems like the same poster keeps changing his handle to respond to me?On one of the threads he kept whining about me instead of talking about the topicThey’ve discovered that both Black Lion and I come here so I’m waiting for the sudden influx of really stupid birthers

    Yes, Bob, it looked suspicious to me, and it’s easy to change an ID there. They used to do that on gretawire to make it look like there were more of them than there actually were.

    I don’t think many of them will come here. When I was on gretawire, someone posted the link to this place; the only one who came here from there though was Squeeky. They tend to avoid facts like cockroaches avoid the light. Once the facts start flying they’re either gone or they start their racist crap, just like that troll who got banned here tonight. Maybe that’s where he came from

  431. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 28, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Yes, Bob, it looked suspicious to me, and it’s easy to change an ID there. They used to do that on gretawire to make it look like there were more of them than there actually were.I don’t think many of them will come here. When I was on gretawire, someone posted the link to this place; the only one who came here from there though was Squeeky. They tend to avoid facts like cockroaches avoid the light. Once the facts start flying they’re either gone or they start their racist crap, just like that troll who got banned here tonight. Maybe that’s where he came from

    no Freddy has been here before well before anyone knew about the weaselzippers site. He came in a while back when we had a bunch of teenagers who weren’t even old enough to vote and who were sock puppeting

  432. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 28, 2011 at 12:22 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    no Freddy has been here before well before anyone knew about the weaselzippers site.He came in a while back when we had a bunch of teenagers who weren’t even old enough to vote and who were sock puppeting

    Okay, I’ll keep my eyes peeled for these clowns then because they’re even dumber than the ones on gretawire were.

  433. avatar
    misha January 28, 2011 at 1:05 am #

    Keith: Why don’t you wish Dallas on her? Or the Ambassador Hotel? Or Memphis? Or Cairo? Or Tel Aviv?

    Also, Austin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

    Keith: Why wish assassination on anybody?

    Sharron Angle: “And you know, I’m hoping that we’re not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/16/sharron-angle-floated-2nd_n_614003.html

  434. avatar
    misha January 28, 2011 at 1:14 am #

    misha: At least, Cheney and his cronies got their paws on the oil.

    Keith: Actually, I think the French got it. But your point is well taken otherwise.

    “Halliburton Co. said on Wednesday that it has gotten a letter of intent from Shell Iraq Petroleum Development BV that would make Halliburton the project manager for developing the Majnoon field in southern Iraq.”

    http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9HM532G3.htm

  435. avatar
    nc1 January 28, 2011 at 1:42 am #

    Majority Will: Maybe she can study up between now and then.“As we work and sightsee on America’s largest island, we’ll get to view more majestic bears, so now is a good time to draw attention to the political equivalent of the species.” –Sarah Palin, referring to Kodiak Island in Alaska, even though Hawaii is America’s biggest island, July 19, 2010“I want to help clean up the state that is so sorry today of journalism. And I have a communications degree.” –Sarah Palin, Fox News interview with Sean Hannity, Nov. 22, 2010“But obviously, we’ve got to stand with our North Korean allies.” –Sarah Palin, after being asked how she would handle the current hostilities between the two Koreas, interview on Glenn Beck’s radio show, Nov. 24, 2010“Because of that one episode, that one episode, that would turn an issue into what it has become over the last two years. I think that’s ridiculous. That’s one of those things, where that issue…that I don’t read, or that I’m not informed, it’s one of those questions where I like to turn that around and ask the reporters, β€˜Why would it be that there is that perception that I don’t read?’” –Sarah Palin, ABC interview with Barbara Walters, Dec. 9, 2010

    I am sure you will enjoy the following article from Palin:
    http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=463364218434

    It starts:
    “My fellow Americans in all 57 states, the time has changed for come. …”

  436. avatar
    obsolete January 28, 2011 at 1:51 am #

    I find it ironic that Freddy N. (the now-banned racist troll) says he knows that Obama doesn’t go to church because he reads newspapers, but somehow Freddy N. managed to not see all the articles that mentioned Obama was born in Hawaii and has a valid COLB.
    Must mean either:
    A. Freddy N. has confirmation bias, like all birthers, truthers, etc.
    B. Freddy N. only reads Stormfront news and similar garbage.
    C. All of the above.

    Here is an newspaper article from 1990 (yes,1990!)
    First Black Elected to Head Harvard’s Law Review
    http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/06/us/first-black-elected-to-head-harvard-s-law-review.html
    First Black Elected to Head Harvard’s Law Review
    “BOSTON, Feb. 5 — The Harvard Law Review, generally considered the most prestigious in the country, elected the first black president in its 104-year history today. The job is considered the highest student position at Harvard Law School.

    The new president of the Review is Barack Obama, a 28-year-old graduate of Columbia University who spent four years heading a community development program for poor blacks on Chicago’s South Side before enrolling in law school. His late father, Barack Obama, was a finance minister in Kenya and his mother, Ann Dunham, is an American anthropologist now doing fieldwork in Indonesia. Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii.”

    Why would Obama lie about his birthplace in 1990? Was he already planning his Presidential run 18 years in the future? Was the New York times printing lies because they were already afraid of the power Obama would wield 18 years from the article’s publication?

    Oh, and aren’t the birthers always saying crap like “his whole life is a mystery”, “he came out of nowhere”, etc?
    (Hat tip to Loren for pointing me to the article)

  437. avatar
    obsolete January 28, 2011 at 1:54 am #

    nc1: “My fellow Americans in all 57 states, the time has changed for come. …”

    Did Obama read that off a teleprompter like Palin used for her “I am a Tucson victim, too!” speech, or did he write it on his hand to crib from?

  438. avatar
    nc1 January 28, 2011 at 2:10 am #

    obsolete: Did Obama read that off a teleprompter like Palin used for her “I am a Tucson victim, too!” speech, or did he write it on his hand to crib from?

    The rest of the Facebook article:
    “…

    With our country founded more than 20 centuries ago, we have much to celebrate – from the FBI’s 100 days to the reforms that bring greater inefficiencies to our health care system. We know that countries like Europe are willing to stand with us in our fight to halt the rise of privacy, and Israel is a strong friend of Israel’s. And let’s face it, everybody knows that it makes no sense that you send a kid to the emergency room for a treatable illness like asthma and they end up taking up a hospital bed. It costs, when, if you, they just gave, you gave them treatment early, and they got some treatment, and ah, a breathalyzer, or an inhalator. I mean, not a breathalyzer, ah, I don’t know what the term is in Austrian for that… “

  439. avatar
    obsolete January 28, 2011 at 2:48 am #

    Facebook is beyond reproach for accuracy.

    nc1- why was Obama/NYT lying about being born in Hawaii in my article from 1990? Will you have to amend your FBI reports to reflect this info? Have the FBI given you an update on their forgery investigation yet?

  440. avatar
    nc1 January 28, 2011 at 3:51 am #

    obsolete: Facebook is beyond reproach for accuracy.nc1- why was Obama/NYT lying about being born in Hawaii in my article from 1990? Will you have to amend your FBI reports to reflect this info? Have the FBI given you an update on their forgery investigation yet?

    1. There are links in the Facebook article if you care to see the source.

    2. Unattended birth registration by a relative – the “written down” evidence of birth in Hawaii.

  441. avatar
    Keith January 28, 2011 at 4:13 am #

    misha: Sharron Angle: “And you know, I’m hoping that we’re not getting to Second Amendment remedies. I hope the vote will be the cure for the Harry Reid problems.”

    I repeat: that is the kind of rhetoric that “we” are trying to eliminate.

    I know what Angle said and it is reprehensible in the extreme, and seditious in fact.

    You are a better person than Sharon Angle.

    misha: “Halliburton Co. said on Wednesday that it has gotten a letter of intent from Shell Iraq Petroleum Development BV that would make Halliburton the project manager for developing the Majnoon field in southern Iraq.”

    I “stand” corrected. I hadn’t seen that.

  442. avatar
    obsolete January 28, 2011 at 4:13 am #

    nc1: 2. Unattended birth registration by a relative – the “written down” evidence of birth in Hawaii.

    We know from multiple sources he was born in a hospital, his birth certificate is not amended, and the state DOH reported his birth (because it was in a hospital) to two news papers which printed birth announcements within days.
    Other than that, you’ve got something there.

    Two more questions for you-
    1. Why did Kenya make a “written down” report of Obama’s birth in Hawaii’s files?
    2. If your nonsense is correct in an alternate world, how does it change Obama’s eligibility?

  443. avatar
    Scientist January 28, 2011 at 7:41 am #

    nc1: Unattended birth registration by a relative – the “written down” evidence of birth in Hawaii

    How can a birth be unattended? There have to be 2 people there at a minimum.

  444. avatar
    Majority Will January 28, 2011 at 8:30 am #

    nc1:
    1. There are links in the Facebook article if you care to see the source.2.Unattended birth registration by a relative – the “written down” evidence of birth in Hawaii.

    You are proof that eye makeup causes brain damage.

  445. avatar
    Black Lion January 28, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    More proof of brain damage by birthers…In the comments regarding the article where Evans admits he lied, of course the comments claim that the “conspiracy” got to him….Look at this winner…

    gabby_babs 10 hours ago

    As someone posted earlier…and its about as clear, truthful and legal as anyone can explain….there is NO birth certificate that ANY official has seen naming obama sr as the birth father of obama II, the document DOES NOT EXIST. Unless obama has copy of the birth certificate from the hospital there are NO other copies one could obtain per adoption laws. As well, there are no birth certificates with the name barack obama II since he ceased to exist when the adoption was filed with the county recorders office. End of story.

    The following explains for the first time why Obama is hiding his records.

    This is a MUST READ.

    Thanks to GGMac the author of this research.
    __________________________________________________

    Background:
    We know that Barry was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. Aside from his half-sister Maya stating so publically, we know from the Stanley Ann/Lolo 1980 divorce documents that “the parties” were the parents of one child under 18 [Maya] and one child over 18 but still dependent on the parties for his education [Barry]. The divorce was filed/granted in Hawaii. That Barry was adopted by Lolo Soetoro is not in the realm of speculation; it is fact.

    None of we bloggers/commentors know with certainty that Barack Obama of Kenya sired Barack Obama II. There is considerable doubt, starting with the boy’s name being designated with the honorary “the Second” (II), rather than the sire-to-son “Junior” – specifically, the boy was named “for” Barack Obama of Kenya, rather then “after” him, indicating that Obama was the right race, at the needed time, and willing. Whether it was BO of Kenya, Frank Marshall Davis, the milkman, or “unknown”, IF our little Barry was truly born in a Honolulu hospital there was a long form, official with raised seal, signed by attending physician certificate of birth – and it was filed in the normal manner at the Department of Health. Where it remained – UNTIL BARRY WAS ADOPTED BY LOLO SOETORO.

    I know the following from personal experience:

    In an adoption procedure such as Lolo of Barry, a petition is filed, hearings are held, privately, before a family court judge and court recorder, adoption is approved, and Court Orders are written which spell out the remaining requisite procedures:

    A brand new, pristine long form certificate of birth is filled out with all of the data from the original birth certificate. It is filled out exactly as the original with two exceptions: on the pristine document the name of the baby’s father is “Lolo Soetoro”, and his race is [whatever Lolo’s race was].

    Enter now the LAW: the signing and filing of the Court Orders does three things in the Law: (1) Lolo Soetoro is the actual – not “step” – ACTUAL father of the boy Barry, who is now Barry Soetoro; (2) as proscribed by the government of Indonesia, the father Lolo’s Indonesian citizenship is conferred onto Barry; (3) whatever man was named on the original birth certificate as father, in the eyes of the law in relation to the child, does not exist – and never did exist. In the eyes of the law, Lolo Soetoro conceived Barry. Chiseled. In. Stone.

    The next step – because above all, the child is to be protected from any person or occurrance which could cause him distress, or could in any way breach his and his parents’ privacy – all records relating to the adoption are sealed, under Court Order. “All” records means ANY and ALL papers, records, memos, files, filings, recordings, transcripts of proceedings, etc, and most importantly – the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE. In the eyes of the law, that certificate does not, and never did, exist. The Certificate of Birth – the “long form” – which identifies Lolo Soetoro as Barry’s father IS the ORIGINAL birth certificate. It is the ONLY one on file at the HDOH. Forever.
    Unless someone ELSE petitions the court and adopts Barry – in which case yet another “original” birth certificate would be generated.

    Regarding the various staff at the Hawaii Dept. of Health, who have made tortured, prevaricating attempts to do Barry’s bidding — any statements or remarks they have made about having personally seen, touched, patted, or swooned over a document as being Obie’s “original birth certificate” has to be in reference to the only one on file – naming Lolo as father. It appears they are dancing for the media and following instructions which could have come only from Barry. The birth records are not public information; FOIA does not apply. The DOH staff are not at liberty to peruse those files; they can only look, handle if required by the job – which means if the “owner” files a request for a certified copy. There was a report during the β€˜08 campaign that Barry had petitioned the Hawaiian court for his on-file birth certificate and related records of copies requested over the years, etc, to be sealed. It would be out of the ordinary – but the Chicago way means such requests are likely to be approved.

    As for the sealed adoption records – anyone poking around there, and that means ANYone – would be committing a criminal act. Last I knew, such files were still actually sealed with a huge blob of wax.

    All things considered, best guess is that Barry refuses to produce his long form birth certificate – and is willing to spend $$million$ to keep it hidden because that one document shows the truth which would reveal layers upon layers of his lies about his life, activities, and travels. Instead of peeling an onion from the outside>in, Barry’s birth certificate Waterloo begins at the center of the onion – right there at the tear-making core – with the fact of his being adopted by Lolo and thus being a citizen of Indonesia.

    Indonesia doesn’t permit dual citizenship, so the Indonesian citizen son of Indonesian Lolo had to have an Indonesian citizen passport. Why his mother had to file for an amendment to remove Barry from travelling on her passport. As a US citizen he could be on hers, but his US citizenship was forsaken for the marriage to Lolo. No problem for a woman who didn’t love her native country anyway – or for the son she dutifully trained to reflect her distaste for America. No problem for him, that is, until he decided to go into politics. Suddenly that Indonesian citizenship and it’s trickle-down useage in his life became a thorn. He wanted to fundamentally change our precious country, and to do so required masses and masses of lies and cover-ups. No problem – just haul out the Chicago way, and the tactics of Chicago’s favorite son, Alinsky. Not working, however – bloggers, Freepers! – and Barry’s thorn of deceit has turned into a festering boil that’s rapidly reaching the point where it will be lanced.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/26/celebrity-journalist-says-he-never-talked-hawaii-governor-obama-birth/#content

  446. avatar
    Sef January 28, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    Black Lion: as proscribed by the government of Indonesia

    Ha ha ha! Idiots, don’t even understand English. He destroys his own argument.

  447. avatar
    Greg January 28, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    2. Unattended birth registration by a relative – the “written down” evidence of birth in Hawaii.

    I still haven’t gotten an answer to this from anyone I’ve asked. What do YOU think would happen if you could prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the birth certificate was attested to by a relative?

    You know what they call a birth certificate attested to by a relative? Prima favor evidence of all the facts contained therein!

    So, you’re in the EXACT same position you were in before learning that. You STILL have to present evidence that Obama was born somewhere else.

    And there, you’ve got nothing that passes the smell test, much less anything that could be introduced into evidence.

    So, why are you wasting time on something that doesn’t actually advance your case? Why aren’t you in Africa doing a deposition of Grandma with her and the translator on the record and under oath? Where’s the deposition of the Kenyan officials to determine on what basis they made their misstatements? Has anyone re-interviewed Maya?

    That you guys are fixated on the stuff you can’t get and ignoring other sources of potential evidence suggests that the birth certificate had value to you only undisclosed. The obtainable evidence would simply confirm what Obama has said.

  448. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 28, 2011 at 10:57 am #

    Greg: I still haven’t gotten an answer to this from anyone I’ve asked. What do YOU think would happen if you could prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the birth certificate was attested to by a relative? You know what they call a birth certificate attested to by a relative? Prima favor evidence of all the facts contained therein!So, you’re in the EXACT same position you were in before learning that. You STILL have to present evidence that Obama was born somewhere else. And there, you’ve got nothing that passes the smell test, much less anything that could be introduced into evidence. So, why are you wasting time on something that doesn’t actually advance your case? Why aren’t you in Africa doing a deposition of Grandma with her and the translator on the record and under oath? Where’s the deposition of the Kenyan officials to determine on what basis they made their misstatements? Has anyone re-interviewed Maya?That you guys are fixated on the stuff you can’t get and ignoring other sources of potential evidence suggests that the birth certificate had value to you only undisclosed. The obtainable evidence would simply confirm what Obama has said.

    Because Birtherism is never about getting answers. It’s about creating enough doubt to try to hurt Obama. They think if they can get enough people questioning then this would destroy his reelection chances.

  449. avatar
    Rickey January 28, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    Freddy N.:
    No college girlfriends and a wife who looks like a male gorilla. Nothing to see, folks, move right along.

    It’s fascinating how the blatant racism always emerges if you give birthers enough rope.

  450. avatar
    nc1 January 28, 2011 at 11:27 am #

    Scientist: How can a birth be unattended? There have to be 2 people there at a minimum.

    If you read health statistics that is the phrase used for births not attended by a physician.

  451. avatar
    The Magic M January 28, 2011 at 11:36 am #

    > all records relating to the adoption are sealed, under Court Order. […]In the eyes of the law, that certificate does not, and never did, exist.

    You really wonder if there actually is a birther with enough brain cells to make up an explanation that is not so utterly removed from things such as “facts” or “reality”.

    Probably this poster has never heard of filings under seal in a civil court case; if he really wants to claim these filings “do not exist in the eye of the law”, I wonder why case parties file them in the first place…

    Back to adoption in particular, of course those records still exist, both physically and “in the eyes of the law”.

    For example, Minnesota has this to say about the original (pre-adoption) birth certificate:

    “A child, age 19 or older who was adopted, may request a non-certified copy of the original birth record.”

    I wonder how Minnesota can issue a non-certified copy of something which legally does not exist…

    It just goes to show, no birther story can withstand scrutiny for more than one strong glance and 2 minutes of Google research…

    > Last I knew, such files were still actually sealed with a huge blob of wax.

    Funny anecdote, but insignificant. I wonder how digital files are sealed. With a huge blob of electrons?

  452. avatar
    The Magic M January 28, 2011 at 11:38 am #

    Forgot the URL for the Minnesota quote:
    http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/chs/osr/adoption.html

  453. avatar
    misha January 28, 2011 at 11:41 am #

    nc1: If you read health statistics that is the phrase used for births not attended by a physician.

    That’s incorrect. I was there.

  454. avatar
    nc1 January 28, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    Greg: I still haven’t gotten an answer to this from anyone I’ve asked. What do YOU think would happen if you could prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the birth certificate was attested to by a relative? You know what they call a birth certificate attested to by a relative? Prima favor evidence of all the facts contained therein!So, you’re in the EXACT same position you were in before learning that. You STILL have to present evidence that Obama was born somewhere else. And there, you’ve got nothing that passes the smell test, much less anything that could be introduced into evidence. So, why are you wasting time on something that doesn’t actually advance your case? Why aren’t you in Africa doing a deposition of Grandma with her and the translator on the record and under oath? Where’s the deposition of the Kenyan officials to determine on what basis they made their misstatements? Has anyone re-interviewed Maya?That you guys are fixated on the stuff you can’t get and ignoring other sources of potential evidence suggests that the birth certificate had value to you only undisclosed. The obtainable evidence would simply confirm what Obama has said.

    Proving that Obama lied about birthplace would be a non-story only for his faithfull supporters.

    Exposing lies and COLB forgery would be a first step in the investigation where he was actually born. Reporting birth as an unattended one does not necessarily mean that this was a truthful report.

    His mother’s passport records (those stored in the archive prior to 1965) and consular reports of foreign country births would tell us whether she returned to the USA with a newborn or not.

    The fact that one cannot obtain those records under the FOIA act is highly suspicious. If you were right and the official birthplace story were true – there would be no need to hide her passport records.

    Well, we do know that your official birthplace story (Kapiolani) is wrong – Abercrombie confirmed it by saying that his investigators found only the “written down” thing.

  455. avatar
    JD Reed January 28, 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    NC one, why do you keep just ignoring and misquoting? Abercrombie did not say what you said he said. He didn’t say that hia investigators found only a “written down” thing, he said that his AXG advised him he didn’t have authority to release the info on his own hook.

    And why are you still on the forgery kick, when no one with any credibbility has provided any proof of a COLB forgery? Again, with deep pockets that some birther enablers seem to have, why not try to nail down what you can get instead of whining about what you can’t? If step-grandma Sarah were to be interviewed in a situation in which she felt no duress from either side, and were to assert that she was present at Barack Obama II’s birth, you’d have a starting point. Same with the referenced govt. officials. To be perfectly fair and aboveboard about such an enterprise, someone trusted by Obama’s supporters would need to be present to make sure that the birther representatives wouldn’t stack the deck.

  456. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 28, 2011 at 12:12 pm #

    nc1: Proving that Obama lied about birthplace would be a non-story only for his faithfull supporters. Exposing lies and COLB forgery would be a first step in the investigation where he was actually born. Reporting birth as an unattended one does not necessarily mean that this was a truthful report. His mother’s passport records (those stored in the archive prior to 1965) and consular reports of foreign country births would tell us whether she returned to the USA with a newborn or not. The fact that one cannot obtain those records under the FOIA act is highly suspicious. If you were right and the official birthplace story were true – there would be no need to hide her passport records.Well, we do know that your official birthplace story (Kapiolani) is wrong – Abercrombie confirmed it by saying that his investigators found only the “written down” thing.

    Why go through all that trouble it would be much easier for you to find passenger manifests for any airplane or boat travel Ann Dunham went on from Kenya and back if such a trip even existed.

  457. avatar
    Scientist January 28, 2011 at 12:18 pm #

    nc1: Proving that Obama lied about birthplace would be a non-story only for his faithfull supporters

    Now you have 2 assumptions: 1. That he wasn’t born in Hawaii. 2. That he knows that. If a parent fraudulently registered the birth of child there is a very good chance they would not tell the child. Are you claiming that the President should remember the first moments of his life? No, he like you, only knows what his parents told him and what the couments say. You would need to prove he knew.

    nc1: Reporting birth as an unattended one does not necessarily mean that this was a truthful report

    Nor does it necessarily mean it was untruthful. The legal buurden is on those who wish to dispute an offiicial record. Good luck proving fraud 50 years later when all involved are dead..

    nc1: The fact that one cannot obtain those records under the FOIA act is highly suspicious

    Not at all. This is what we call in science an uncontrolled experiment. You would need to request a broad set of similar records from that period and show me that all were available except Ms Dunham’s before I would see even an inkling of suspicion.

    Now if I wanted to prove birth in Kenya, Kenya is where I would go. Are you afraid to go there? I haven’t been, but i know many people who have and they all enjoyed it. Bon voyage….send us a postcard.

  458. avatar
    Majority Will January 28, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    JD Reed: NC one, why do you keep just ignoring and misquoting? Abercrombie did not say what you said he said. He didn’t say that hia investigators found only a “written down” thing, he said that his AXG advised him he didn’t have authority to release the info on his own hook.And why are you still on the forgery kick, when no one with any credibbility has provided any proof of a COLB forgery? Again, with deep pockets that some birther enablers seem to have, why not try to nail down what you can getinstead of whining about what you can’t?If step-grandma Sarah were to be interviewed in a situation in which she felt no duress from either side, and were to assert that she was present at Barack Obama II’s birth, you’d have a starting point. Same with the referenced govt. officials. To be perfectly fair and aboveboard about such an enterprise, someone trusted by Obama’s supporters would need to be present to make sure that the birther representatives wouldn’t stack the deck.

    NC1 or Naturalized Citizen is an eastern European immigrant, a pathological liar and most likely insane. She has has a rabid fear of strong, African American men and her bigotry pushes her to repeat lies incessantly from a growing Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

    She is starved for attention and will post anything on every birther related article and blog to reinforce her extremely fragile ego.

  459. avatar
    nc1 January 28, 2011 at 12:22 pm #

    JD Reed: NC one, why do you keep just ignoring and misquoting? Abercrombie did not say what you said he said. He didn’t say that hia investigators found only a “written down” thing, he said that his AXG advised him he didn’t have authority to release the info on his own hook.And why are you still on the forgery kick, when no one with any credibbility has provided any proof of a COLB forgery? Again, with deep pockets that some birther enablers seem to have, why not try to nail down what you can get instead of whining about what you can’t? If step-grandma Sarah were to be interviewed in a situation in which she felt no duress from either side, and were to assert that she was present at Barack Obama II’s birth, you’d have a starting point. Same with the referenced govt. officials. To be perfectly fair and aboveboard about such an enterprise, someone trusted by Obama’s supporters would need to be present to make sure that the birther representatives wouldn’t stack the deck.

    You need to reread the “written down” statement from few days ago. Abercrombie was set on ending the birther controversy – yet he did not say that his investigators found the long form birth certificate.

    He could have said that the original hospital certificate is on file but could not be released to the public due to privacy concerns. Instead, he mentioned the “written down” thing as the evidence of Hawaii birth.

    There is no need to interview anybody in Africa – relevant documents are in the USA archives.

    Nordyke certificates and Okubo’s statements tell us that the COLB posted on the FactCheck is a forgery: Date Filed and the registration number do not fit. An honest investigation would show it.

    Refusal from DoH to confirm that registration number 10641 is part of Obama’s birth registration INDEX (by law it is a public data) is another nail in the coffin of the official birthplace story.

  460. avatar
    Greg January 28, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    nc1: Proving that Obama lied about birthplace would be a non-story only for his faithfull supporters.

    Exposing lies and COLB forgery would be a first step in the investigation where he was actually born. Reporting birth as an unattended one does not necessarily mean that this was a truthful report.

    Proving that the cert is family-attested doesn’t prove that he wasn’t born in Hawaii.

    It proves that the cert is family-attested.

    It is still a government-certified document, with the power of a State-affixed seal. If Obama came into court with a family-attested cert, and nothing else, you would STILL have to present evidence that he was born somewhere else.

    Not even showing that Obama lied about being born in Kapiolani hospital would get you beyond the prima facie value of the cert, since that’s an ancillary issue, not contained on either the COLB or the cert (in this hypo).

    nc1: The fact that one cannot obtain those records under the FOIA act is highly suspicious. If you were right and the official birthplace story were true – there would be no need to hide her passport records.

    So, go find other sources of evidence.

    What airlines flew to Africa in 1961? Their records aren’t protected by Hawaiian privacy laws, are they? What pilots flew there? Surely a very young woman flying with a new-born from Africa would be pretty memorable, wouldn’t it?

    nc1: Abercrombie confirmed it by saying that his investigators found only the “written down” thing.

    Quote me exactly what Abercrombie said that makes you think he ONLY found the “written down” thing.

    Do you know what a quote is? It’s where you write down EXACTLY what someone says, and you put it in quotation marks.

    (Here’s a hint: Even if you were able to quote Abercrombie saying, “We only found the ‘written down’ thing,” that wouldn’t prove that something else didn’t exist. Can you figure out why? You’d need one more piece of information. Can you guess what? This isn’t even a difficult logic problem, nc.)

    You guys fail basic logical reasoning.

  461. avatar
    Majority Will January 28, 2011 at 12:38 pm #

    Majority Will:
    NC1 or Naturalized Citizen is an eastern European immigrant, a pathological liar and most likely insane. She has has a rabid fear of strong, African American men and her bigotry pushes her to repeat lies incessantly from a growing Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.She is starved for attention and will post anything on every birther related article and blog to reinforce her extremely fragile ego.

    And the insane birther troll from Birthervania proves my point on the very next post.

    She will post the exact same b.s. ad nauseam but sometimes will vary the wording to give it a faux freshness. It’s like she’s rearranging cat turds in the litter box to make it look less disgusting.

  462. avatar
    Greg January 28, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

    nc1: You need to reread the “written down” statement from few days ago. Abercrombie was set on ending the birther controversy – yet he did not say that his investigators found the long form birth certificate.

    He didn’t say they couldn’t find it, either, did he?

    nc1: There is no need to interview anybody in Africa – relevant documents are in the USA archives.

    1. You can’t get them. You’ve tried for years, and failed.
    2. The DoH has said, explicitly, that Obama was born in Hawaii, so even if you could get the documents, the absolute best you can hope for is that the cert was simply family-attested.
    3. A family-attested cert is just as valid for proving Hawaiian birth as a hospital birth.
    4. A family-attested cert doesn’t get you discovery.
    5. You’d need the family-attested cert PLUS evidence of birth someplace else to get discovery.

    nc1: Nordyke certificates and Okubo’s statements tell us that the COLB posted on the FactCheck is a forgery

    WND rejected the forgery claims.

    nc1: Refusal from DoH to confirm that registration number 10641 is part of Obama’s birth registration INDEX (by law it is a public data)

    If you’re certain that the DoH is violating Hawaiian law, sue them! Stop whining here to us.

    We think you’re 100% off the mark on your interpretation of Hawaiian law and you think you’re 100% correct. Simply repeating your nonsensical rationale just wastes all of our time.

    Go the Hawaiian OIP and look up their procedure for requesting information under their Uniform Information Practices Act. Request the information you seek. They’ll deny it. You appeal. They’ll deny your appeal. You have now exhausted your administrative remedies. Go to court and argue that they are misinterpreting the Hawaiian statute on point. Then, since you are the only one who truly understands Hawaiian law, you’ll win on the force of your stellar arguments.

    Why are you wasting your time here?

  463. avatar
    JD Reed January 28, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    nc one, here’s a possible light at the end of your tunnel: Democratic House members in Hawaii are proposing legislation to allow the public to purchase their own copies of Obama’s birth certificate for $100.
    Sounds like they’re not worried about what will turn up.
    Please give us a prediction about what your $100 will fetch you if this bill becomes law (and isn’t overturned by the courts).

    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/01/28/hawaii-bill-would-let-people-purchase-obamas-birth-certificate

  464. avatar
    Black Lion January 28, 2011 at 2:24 pm #

    More Obama derangement….

    Congressman Calls Obama a Socialist, Refuses to Back Down

    http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/28/congressman-calls-obama-socialist-refuses-back-down

  465. avatar
    obsolete January 28, 2011 at 7:37 pm #

    I’m still waiting for nc1 to back up her claims with links where she stated that Hawaii now only allows you to purchase ten years of index data instead of only the year Obama was born, and they are ignoring purchase requests, etc.
    That sound you hear is nc1’s little remaining credibility going down the drain.

  466. avatar
    nc1 January 29, 2011 at 5:55 am #

    JD Reed: nc one, here’s a possible light at the end of your tunnel: Democratic House members in Hawaii are proposing legislation to allow the public to purchase their own copies of Obama’s birth certificate for $100.Sounds like they’re not worried about what will turn up.Please give us a prediction about what your $100 will fetch you if this bill becomes law (and isn’t overturned by the courts).http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/01/28/hawaii-bill-would-let-people-purchase-obamas-birth-certificate

    If they are not worried there will be no problem getting the copy of the original birth certificate. The same goes for the copy of the original handwritten birth registration index.

    If Obama and Fukino told the truth, these documents are in the DoH archive.

    I will believe it when I see it.

  467. avatar
    Scientist January 29, 2011 at 6:28 am #

    nc1: If Obama and Fukino told the truth, these documents are in the DoH archive.

    Was Bush lying when he said that Iraq was actively developing WMDs in 2002? I’m just curious if you are truly concerned with truth, or simply have an axe to grind against one particular individual.

  468. avatar
    nc1 January 29, 2011 at 6:33 am #

    obsolete: I’m still waiting for nc1 to back up her claims with links where she stated that Hawaii now only allows you to purchase ten years of index data instead of only the year Obama was born, and they are ignoring purchase requests, etc.That sound you hear is nc1β€²s little remaining credibility going down the drain.

    Your credibility will certainly not increase when you quote me incorrectly. I never mentioned 10 years cumulative birth index list. I wrote that DoH offered to sell 5 year birth registration index.

    If you want to know the story read the following three articles:
    1. Mark Niesse writes about Vexatious Requester bill in the Hawaii Legislature
    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2010/08/07/birthers_fade_after_passage_of_law_against_them/?rss_id=Boston.com+–+Latest+news

    2. He has contacted Post and Email prior to writing the above mentioned article.
    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/08/28/hawaii-department-of-health-labels-the-post-email-a-vexatious-requester-2/

    3. Claim that Hawaii DoH offers birth index for years 1960-1964 for $553.25.
    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/08/26/hawaii-department-of-health-contradicts-ap-story/

    We have Okubo saying one thing to AP writter Mark Niesse ($98.75 for birth index list for 1961) while DoH returning money when people actually tried to purchase it.

    For those impatient to read through linked articles here is an excerpt from the 3rd article:
    ===================================
    From: hdohinfo (hdohinfo@hawaii.gov)
    Sent: Tue 7/13/10 8:49 PM
    To: Sharon Rondeau
    Cc: Linden.H.Joesting@hawaii.gov

    Aloha Ms. Rondeau:

    This is in response to your UIPA request sent May 28, 2010. The department has no records responsive to your request as there are no “actual hand prepared books of that period.” All birth index data is stored electronically, therefore, birth index data is available to the public in the form of pages generated by a computer.

    The department can mail you all birth index data from 1960-1964 to allow you to search for all surnames you are requesting. We require a prepayment of $553.25 to cover our costs in order to send you the records. Please see the attached Notice to Requestor form OIP 4 (rev. 8/29/08) for a breakdown of the costs to provide you with the records.

    If you would like to receive the computer printed pages of birth index data, please send your cashier’s check, certified check or money order to:

    State Department of Health
    Office of Health Status Monitoring
    Issuance/Vital Statistics Section/UIPA Request
    P.O. Box 3378
    Honolulu, HI 96801

    ===================================
    From: hdohinfo (hdohinfo@doh.hawaii.gov)
    Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:55 PM
    To: Sharon Rondeau’
    Subject: RE: BIRTH INDEX

    Aloha Ms. Rondeau:

    We can provide birth index data in five-year increments from 1960 to 1964. As explained in our email to you, dated July 13, 2010, a prepayment of $553.25 is requested to cover our costs, and you must send a request for records with your prepayment.

    Hawaii Department of Health
    Public Information Office staff

  469. avatar
    nc1 January 29, 2011 at 6:45 am #

    Scientist: Was Bush lying when he said that Iraq was actively developing WMDs in 2002? I’m just curious if you are truly concerned with truth, or simply have an axe to grind against one particular individual.

    Funny, this is one of my arguments when I challenge Obama supporters and their faith in government officials telling the truth:

    The CIA director claimed that the case was a “slam dunk”.
    Secretary of State gave a persuasive presentation to the UN including photos of places where readily deployable WMDs were stored (we were told).

    Yet, we should trust Fukino without any verification that she was telling the truth. How difficult is it to present the evidence that the official birthplace story is true?
    Where is Obama’s equivalent of Nordyke certificates?

    It is supposed to be a trivial verification (assuming that Obama told the truth), there is no need to invade a foreign country to verify his birthplace.

    What happened to the “Bush lied – people died” crowd?

  470. avatar
    Scientist January 29, 2011 at 6:51 am #

    nc1: What happened to the “Bush lied – people died” crowd?

    Who has died because of a long form vs a short form birth certificate?

    It is at best a trivial issue which you and your bretheren, for reasons that escape me, are attempting to turn into some kind of apocalyptic crisis. The election happened 2 years ago. Get over it. If you like what Obama has done in office, vote for him in 2012; if you don’t, I’m sure there will be other choices.

  471. avatar
    Black Lion January 29, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    Note To RW Bloggers: Could Obama Derangement Syndrome Cost You Your Day Job?
    January 28, 2011 2:22 pm ET by Eric Boehlert

    I’m surprised this sort of thing doesn’t happen more often, as more and more conservative bloggers seem to take leave of their senses in order to criticize any and everything that the Obama White House does. But as TPM notes, a prominent conservative blogger, and practicing attorney, Paul Mirengoff at Powerline really stepped in it when he recently mocked the Tucson memorial where Obama spoke, only to be quickly rebuked by his own law firm.

    Specifically, the Obama-hating Mirengoff belittled an opening prayer at the Tucson memorial service given by a Native American [emphasis added].

    As for the “ugly,” I’m afraid I must cite the opening “prayer” by Native American Carlos Gonzales. It was apparently was some sort of Yaqui Indian tribal thing, with lots of references to “the creator” but no mention of God. Several of the victims were, as I understand it, quite religious in that quaint Christian kind of way (none, to my knowledge, was a Yaqui). They (and their families) likely would have appreciated a prayer more closely aligned with their religious beliefs.

    But oops! From TPM:

    Mirengoff is a partner at Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP, a law firm with an American Indian Law and Policy department.

    Which lead to this statement form the firm’s chairman:

    We sincerely apologize for the blog entry posted by Akin Gump partner Paul Mirengoff on his personal blog, powerlineblog.com.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101280025

  472. avatar
    Black Lion January 29, 2011 at 11:55 am #

    Breitbart’s Big Journalism: Canceling Bristol Palin’s Speech = Jim Crow
    January 29, 2011 10:10 am ET by Simon Maloy

    Bristol Palin, the daughter of ex-governor and Fox News contributor Sarah Palin, was scheduled to speak as part of a panel at Washington University’s Sexual Responsibility Week. The appearance, however, has since been canceled after students protested Palin’s involvement and objected to her fee for speaking at the event. According to a Washington University statement, the decision was “mutually agreed” upon.

    Andrew Breitbart’s BigJournalism.com, however, viewed the cancellation of Palin’s paid appearance at a university seminar as akin to the Southern opposition to school desegregation. BigJournalism contributor Jonathon Burns wrote in apparent seriousness (emphasis added):

    And after a day or two of protest attacks against SHAC, the [student union] capitulated and announced they had axed Bristol from the panel, because, “the controversy surrounding her appearance would overshadow the event’s intended message of sexual responsibility.”

    So the message is, “Don’t bother coming, Bristol, or we’ll shout you down and riot because WE DON’T WANT YOU HERE!” This seems eerily similar to Southern intimidation and oppression of blacks during attempts to desegregate. It’s reminiscent of a scene from Forrest Gump, where a young black girl is harassed by a young white student and knocks her books out of her hands.

    Millions of college students have been indoctrinated with the importance of diversity — so long as that diversity includes approved races, ethnicities, political ideologies, backgrounds, etc. If you’re conservative, from a rural area, and you’re supporting abstinence, well, let’s just say that kind of diversity isn’t desired.

    No, instead of supporting diversity, the celebrated ideal of college land, let’s applaud and bow to bigotry.

    The specific flavor of “bigotry” on display here, according to Burns, is “ethnicism” and “urbanism,” which he defines as “bigotry against all things non-urban.”

    I’m not sure what’s sillier about this: that BigJournalism apparently thinks lucrative speaking gigs are a civil right, or that their understanding of the Jim Crow South is gleaned from Forrest Gump.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101290001

  473. avatar
    obsolete January 29, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    nc1- Thanks for providing the links.
    Until I see a similar claim from someone credible,I am going to have to file it as unconfirmed. Sharon Rondeau has an advanced case of Obama Derangement Syndrome, and her blog is notorious for twisting facts, outright lies, propaganda, and calls for sedition.
    She is simply not credible.

  474. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 29, 2011 at 10:25 pm #

    Scientist: It is at best a trivial issue which you and your bretheren, for reasons that escape me, are attempting to turn into some kind of apocalyptic crisis

    Think how frustrating it must be to be a birther. The evidence continually eludes them; they lose all their court cases, and the media mocks them. No wonder they go off the deep end.

  475. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 29, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

    nc1: Yet, we should trust Fukino without any verification that she was telling the truth

    Both Fukino and Dr. Onaka examined the records. Onaka is the one who signed the COLB. Other verification includes the newspaper announcements, the birth index and the State Department memo.

    So you see, we should trust Dr. Fukino because there is strong verification.

    You, on the other hand, have nothing to make me trust you.

  476. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 29, 2011 at 10:30 pm #

    nc1: If Obama and Fukino told the truth, these documents are in the DoH archive.

    I will believe it when I see it.

    Based on my past experience with you, I do not believe your comment.

  477. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 29, 2011 at 10:33 pm #

    nc1: Funny, this is one of my arguments when I challenge Obama supporters and their faith in government officials telling the truth:

    Generally lies unravel and the truth gains confirmation. Clearly, it is the birther story that has unraveled, and the President’s birth in the United States gains confirmation (such as the FOIA State Department memo). Where is the whistle blower?

  478. avatar
    nc1 January 30, 2011 at 12:35 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Generally lies unravel and the truth gains confirmation. Clearly, it is the birther story that has unraveled, and the President’s birth in the United States gains confirmation (such as the FOIA State Department memo). Where is the whistle blower?

    What FOIA State Department memo are you talking about? Is it the one that claims passport record destruction?

  479. avatar
    nc1 January 30, 2011 at 1:06 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Think how frustrating it must be to be a birther. The evidence continually eludes them; they lose all their court cases, and the media mocks them. No wonder they go off the deep end.

    As Edison said – numerous unsucessful attempts to create a light bulb were not failures – they thought him what did not work.

    Lost court cases do not reflect bad on the strength of arguments espoused by those challenging Obama’s eligibility – it clearly illuminates the sad state of US Justice system.

    When a trivial but vital question cannot be answered in straightforward manner it reflects on the level of government corruption that I did not see prior to this controversy.

  480. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 30, 2011 at 1:24 am #

    nc1:
    As Edison said – numerous unsucessful attempts to create a light bulb were not failures – they thought him what did not work.Lost court cases do not reflect bad on the strength of arguments espoused by those challenging Obama’s eligibility – it clearly illuminates the sad state of US Justice system.When a trivial but vital question cannot be answered in straightforward manner it reflects on the level of government corruption that I did not see prior to this controversy.

    No in Edison’s case if you’ve had numerous unsuccessful attempts to create a light bulb… Just steal someone else’s work and call it your own. 80 plus failures reflect badly on their legal arguments. You’re not inventing light bulbs you’re inventing legal arguments that have no basis in the law. It clearly illuminates the great state of the US Justice system that frivolous lawsuits continue to be thrown out of court

  481. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 30, 2011 at 1:25 am #

    nc1:
    As Edison said – numerous unsucessful attempts to create a light bulb were not failures – they thought him what did not work.Lost court cases do not reflect bad on the strength of arguments espoused by those challenging Obama’s eligibility – it clearly illuminates the sad state of US Justice system.When a trivial but vital question cannot be answered in straightforward manner it reflects on the level of government corruption that I did not see prior to this controversy.

    The question has been answered over and over again. You just don’t like the answer. It reflects more on the corruption of you birthers

  482. avatar
    nc1 January 30, 2011 at 1:55 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): The question has been answered over and over again. You just don’t like the answer. It reflects more on the corruption of you birthers

    Not a single court has examined the evidence.

    You would expect that bright legal minds in black robes could at least provide a guidance what the correct procedure for challenging a candidate’s eligility to run for POTUS is.

  483. avatar
    Scientist January 30, 2011 at 3:13 am #

    nc1: You would expect that bright legal minds in black robes could at least provide a guidance what the correct procedure for challenging a candidate’s eligility to run for POTUS is.

    They have and it’s quite simple. It’s an adversarial system. In plain English, what that means is that an actual candidate who believes another candidate is ineligible can challlenge their place on the ballot before the election.

    If you wish to see such a system in action, watch the Super Bowl next weekend, When the referees make a call, it can be challenged by the opposing coach before the next play is run. When that happens, the officials will look at the play again from all angles and if the film shows they are wrong they will reverse the call. However, challenges made too late or by a fan in the cheap seats will be ignored. You guys aren;t even in the cheap seats, you are watching at home on TV. And in this case the film backs the referees.

  484. avatar
    nc1 January 30, 2011 at 3:48 am #

    Scientist: They have and it’s quite simple. It’s an adversarial system. In plain English, what that means is that an actual candidate who believes another candidate is ineligible can challlenge their place on the ballot before the election. If you wish to see such a system in action, watch the Super Bowl next weekend, When the referees make a call, it can be challenged by the opposing coach before the next play is run. When that happens, the officials will look at the play again from all angles and if the film shows they are wrong they will reverse the call. However, challenges made too late or by a fan in the cheap seats will be ignored. You guys aren;t even in the cheap seats, you are watching at home on TV. And in this case the film backs the referees.

    If you want the stick with your football analogy what happened to the booth review?

    Why did Abercrombie even bother looking into documents on file if the film backs referees?

  485. avatar
    Scientist January 30, 2011 at 4:01 am #

    nc1: Why did Abercrombie even bother looking into documents on file if the film backs referees?

    You asked about “legal minds in black robes”. Abercronbie is a fool and irrelevant unless he runs for President (fat chance). It is up to real live candidates to challenge during the game. The 2008 game has been over for more than 2 years. There will be another one in < 2 years, but I suspect the results will be the same. Since you are not a coach or a player, you have no red flag to throw, so your opinions are meaningless.

  486. avatar
    nc1 January 30, 2011 at 4:10 am #

    Scientist: You asked about “legal minds in black robes”. Abercronbie is a fool and irrelevant unless he runs for President (fat chance). It is up to real live candidates to challenge during the game. The 2008 game has been over for more than 2 years. There will be another one in < 2 years, but I suspect the results will be the same. Since you are not a coach or a player, you have no red flag to throw, so your opinions are meaningless.

    Booth review?

  487. avatar
    Keith January 30, 2011 at 6:24 am #

    nc1: If you want the stick with your football analogy what happened to the booth review?

    Its right here: Hawai’i Department of Health “Booth Review”

  488. avatar
    Scientist January 30, 2011 at 7:30 am #

    nc1: Booth review?

    You aren’t a player or a coach. You aren’t entitled to squat.

    You asked about the legal procedure to challenge the eligibility of a candidate and you have your answer. You have to be a player or a coach (i.e,, you have to get off your fat ass and run for President yourself). And you have to file the challenge at the proper time (before your fellow citizens cast their votes). Alan Keyes could challenge Obama’s placement on the ballot (at least in those states where he himself was on it), but for reasons I don’t understand, he waited until after the election. Must have been the great advice he got from his crack legal/dental team.

    If you don’t like the football analogy, here’s a legal one. Suppose you and I crash our cars into each other. I can sue you and you can sue me. However, Doc can’t sue because he drove by and was distressed by seeing the accident. And even you and I can’t sue if we wait 3 years to do so. And even if I sue in time, I can’t expect that the judge will let me subpoena the original records of your driving test, to be sure you really earned your license. If you show a valid license, that’s it.

    This is how the US legal system works. If you don’t like it, go elsewhere. You might try Japan, because I think you birthers would fit right in with the otaku.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otaku

  489. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 30, 2011 at 9:18 am #

    nc1: What FOIA State Department memo are you talking about? Is it the one that claims passport record destruction?

    No, I’m talking about the 1974 memo to the file disclosed to Strunk where it states that Lolo Soetoro’s stepson was a citizen of the United States by virtue of his birth in Hawaii.

  490. avatar
    Majority Will January 30, 2011 at 11:54 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    No, I’m talking about the 1974 memo to the file disclosed to Strunk where it states that Lolo Soetoro’s stepson was a citizen of the United States by virtue of his birth in Hawaii.

    OH, SNAP.

  491. avatar
    nc1 January 30, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: No, I’m talking about the 1974 memo to the file disclosed to Strunk where it states that Lolo Soetoro’s stepson was a citizen of the United States by virtue of his birth in Hawaii.

    Is there a date or a signature on that memo? Any links?

    Call me back when they release SAD’s passport documents prior to 1965 – if Obama faithfull were correct there is no possibility that she returned from abroad with a newborn child.

    It is a conspiracy to hide her passport documents – people should not have to sue the government to obtain documents that are in public domain.

  492. avatar
    G January 30, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    nc1: It is a conspiracy to hide her passport documents – people should not have to sue the government to obtain documents that are in public domain.

    Just because a few delusional people see a “conspiracy” around every corner does not a conspiracy make.

    People who sue the government based on unfounded and purely speculative paranoid conspiracies have only set themselves up for failure. When you are suing based soley on the demons within your own head, reality is unlikely to have answers to your imaginary world.

  493. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 30, 2011 at 8:37 pm #

    nc1:
    Is there a date or a signature on that memo? Any links?Call me back when they release SAD’s passport documents prior to 1965 – if Obama faithfull were correct there is no possibility that she returned from abroad with a newborn child.It is a conspiracy to hide her passport documents – people should not have to sue the government to obtain documents that are in public domain.

    Thus far there is no proof that she had a passport before 1965. No birther has been able to prove this.