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The occasional open thread – Vacation edition

What’s on your mind. This thread will remain open for 18 days. Please use sparingly so that the page won’t grow too long.

828 Responses to The occasional open thread – Vacation edition

  1. avatar
    Rickey January 10, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    This just in:

    CERTIORARI DENIED

    10-541
    TAITZ, ORLY V. MACDONALD, THOMAS D., ET AL.

  2. avatar
    Majority Will January 10, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    HuffPo’s report:

    Supreme Court Rejects Appeal Filed By Birther Queen Orly Taitz
    01/10/11 10:03 AM

    WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal from a lawyer who has been in the forefront of the challenge to President Barack Obama’s citizenship.

    The high court on Monday did not comment in refusing to hear the appeal filed by California lawyer and dentist Orly Taitz. She was contesting a $20,000 fine for filing what a federal judge determined was a frivolous lawsuit.

    The suit was filed on behalf of Army Capt. Connie Rhodes, who sought to avoid deployment to Iraq by claiming Obama wasn’t born in the United States and thus, is ineligible to be president and commander in chief.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/10/supreme-court-rejects-app_1_n_806713.html

  3. avatar
    Bovril January 10, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    Ahhhhh, but in the rat infested mind of Mad Ole Orly the fact that there was no comment means it’s a seekrit coded way of saying the SC really, truly, honestly, did want to give her, her pony and unicorn but have been intimidated by Da Ebil Usurperator…….

  4. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 10, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    Majority Will: HuffPo’s report:Supreme Court Rejects Appeal Filed By Birther Queen Orly Taitz01/10/11 10:03 AM WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal from a lawyer who has been in the forefront of the challenge to President Barack Obama’s citizenship.The high court on Monday did not comment in refusing to hear the appeal filed by California lawyer and dentist Orly Taitz. She was contesting a $20,000 fine for filing what a federal judge determined was a frivolous lawsuit.The suit was filed on behalf of Army Capt. Connie Rhodes, who sought to avoid deployment to Iraq by claiming Obama wasn’t born in the United States and thus, is ineligible to be president and commander in chief.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/10/supreme-court-rejects-app_1_n_806713.html

    Next up for Taitz she will use her husband’s wealth to fund her own supreme court and appoint her own justices to which she will submit her case again.

  5. avatar
    Rickey January 10, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    Next up is Hollister. Cert will be officially denied a week from today.

  6. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 10, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    Everyone,

    I suggest we use the ‘Blog on Vacation’ thread as an open thread for now in order to keep this one from getting unwieldy too quickly – 18 days is a long time…

  7. avatar
    Bovril January 10, 2011 at 3:03 pm #

    Possibly by not replying to….how can we be charitable, thread bloating posters..?

  8. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 10, 2011 at 3:04 pm #

    Maybe it would help if certain people did not “quote” the whole something else somebody said right above in the thread. Because some people just quote everything they comment on whether it makes sense or not.

    Anyway, here is where I made another predictions that came out true!!! Here is what i said last night:

    “Maybe if you have nutty people running around loose in Tucson with a gun, it is easier to blame politicians than the sheriff of Tucson??? Oh wait, he IS the sheriff of Tucson.”

    Then LO AND BEHOLD!!! there is this today that comes out:

    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=176947

    Where this little tidbit can be found:

    Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation.

    Sooo, my suspicions about things aren’t so stupid after all, are they???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  9. avatar
    obsolete January 10, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    While Doc’s gone, now is a good time for us Obots to ‘fess up and explain how the birthers have been right all along- we have succeeded in pulling off a 50 year conspiracy that stretches across all levels of government across three continents.
    Ha ha, silly birthers! You’ve got to admit we had you start doubting yourself!

  10. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 10, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: Maybe it would help if certain people did not “quote” the whole something else somebody said right above in the thread. Because some people just quote everything they comment on whether it makes sense or not.Anyway, here is where I made another predictions that came out true!!! Here is what i said last night:“Maybe if you have nutty people running around loose in Tucson with a gun, it is easier to blame politicians than the sheriff of Tucson??? Oh wait, he IS the sheriff of Tucson.”Then LO AND BEHOLD!!! there is this today that comes out:http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=176947Where this little tidbit can be found:Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation.Sooo, my suspicions about things aren’t so stupid after all, are they???Squeeky FrommGirl Reporter

    So what are you trying to say Squeeks? That people should worry for you even though your mental health is being well managed

  11. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 10, 2011 at 3:34 pm #

    Bovilexia:

    You don’t have to be “charitable.” You can just come out and say “Don’t talk to Squeeky Fromm”, and it will not hurt my feelings very much. Only a little bit. But that is just part of being a “Girl Reporter”. Not everybody likes your news or opinions. Plus, sometimes it is easier to just not say something when you have been beaten WITH LOGIC!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  12. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 10, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    Dr Ken:

    Maybe you shouldn’t quote as much. You just did 17 lines of quote, for just two lines of comment to me. Above, you did the same thing to somebody else. I bet that is helping the threads to get messed up, all the “quotes” and extra lines.

    The Internet Article is just what it is. The Tucson sheriff apparently did NOT do his job, and maybe that is why he is trying soooo hard to distract everybody from where he may have messed up.

    Here is the ORIGINAL Internet Article:

    http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/

    Plus, it seems like the murderer was a 9-11 Truther.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  13. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 10, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: Dr Ken:Maybe you shouldn’t quote as much. You just did 17 lines of quote, for just two lines of comment to me. Above, you did the same thing to somebody else. I bet that is helping the threads to get messed up, all the “quotes” and extra lines. The Internet Article is just what it is. The Tucson sheriff apparently did NOT do his job, and maybe that is why he is trying soooo hard to distract everybody from where he may have messed up.Here is the ORIGINAL Internet Article:http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/Plus, it seems like the murderer was a 9-11 Truther.Squeeky FrommGirl Reporter

    There’s no difference between birther and truthers many truthers I’ve come across are also birthers. It requires the same shutting off of the logical thought processes in ones brain to be both

  14. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 10, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    There’s no difference between birther and truthers many truthers I’ve come across are also birthers.It requires the same shutting off of the logical thought processes in ones brain to be both

    The folks over at Dr. Kate’s have seemed receptive to the occasional truther comment (I believe Dr. Kate even posted an article about 9/11 truth once) – In my opinion the biggest difference between birthers and truthers is that birthers are wrong on the law and truthers are wrong on the science (both are wrong on the facts…).

  15. avatar
    Keith January 10, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    Bovril: Ahhhhh, but in the rat infested mind of Mad Ole Orly the fact that there was no comment means it’s a seekrit coded way of saying the SC really, truly, honestly, did want to give her, her pony and unicorn but have been intimidated by Da Ebil Usurperator…….

    Clearly, SCOTUS was intimidated by the Tucson shootings.

  16. avatar
    Keith January 10, 2011 at 5:41 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: The Tucson sheriff apparently did NOT do his job,

    The Pima County Sheriff’s Office is NOT in the Mental Health Management business.

    Mental Health services all across the country are in a crisis due to conservative legislatures methodically stripping funds from health care services. Ronald Regan is credited with stripping federal funding from the Mental Health Hospitals and the States have been following suit ever since.

  17. avatar
    Rickey January 10, 2011 at 6:48 pm #

    Arizona has been replete with death threats lately.

    Rep. Raul Grijalva closed his offices after receiving death threats in April after he called on the Federal government to challenge Arizona’s new immigration law.

    Judge Roll received death threats after he ruled against an Arizona farmer who was being sued by illegal immigrants.

    Phoenix mayor Phil Gordon received death threats after he announced his opposition to the immigration law.

    U.S. District Court Judge Susan Bolton received death threats after she issued a stay on the implementation of most of Arizona’s immigration law.

    The problem with enforcing the laws is determining intent.

  18. avatar
    Majority Will January 10, 2011 at 8:15 pm #

    Bovril: Possibly by not replying to….how can we be charitable, thread bloating posters..?

    Or by responding to self-serving, drunken, deranged, illiterate, spamming, delusional, needy birther trolls.

  19. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 10, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    Keith:

    Did you read the links??? I hate to ask this, but you know with some people here not thinking it is necessary to read the links, who knows??? Because if you did, you will see that the story is beginning to look like the Tucson Sheriff simply did not do his job. His mention of the mental health system and plural use of run-ins indicate to me the story is right.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  20. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 10, 2011 at 9:25 pm #

    Plus, here is my latest Internet Article:

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/paul-krugman-joins-westboro-baptist-church/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  21. avatar
    Keith January 10, 2011 at 9:43 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: Did you read the links?

    Did you not read my post???? I hate to ask this, but you know with some people here not thinking it is necessary to read what people are telling them, who knows???

    I read one of the links to see what you are talking about, and it is misinformed propaganda.

    Which part of the sentence “The Pima County Sheriff’s Office is a law enforcement organization, not a Mental Health Management organization.” do you not understand?

    Yes, since mentally ill patients are in the community more, they will have issues with LEO’s more often, but that still doesn’t make LEO’s Medical Health practitioners. They have enough on their plate dealing with law enforcement issues. The most a LEO can do is ensure nobody is in immediate danger and refer the situation to the relevant Health authorities. If you want to then argue that the relevant Health authorities didn’t do enough, then fair enough, do some checking on why they don’t have enough case workers and other resources to do their job.

    Please stop lying and/or spreading other people’s lies about stuff that you know nothing about. I grew up in Tucson and have worked for both Pima County and the City of Tucson. You need to be aware that Clarence Dupnik is the most highly regarded Sheriff in the history of the department, has been overwhelmingly reelected every 4 years for 30 years, and the PCSD is one of the most professional LEO’s in the country.

    You are barking up the wrong tree, and your smear Dupnik campaign is going to backfire quite spectacularly.

  22. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 10, 2011 at 10:02 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Or by responding to self-serving, drunken, deranged, illiterate, spamming, delusional, needy birther trolls.

    I guess some just can’t help themselves. All she’s going to do is call people names, insist that she knows it all, and tell people to read her crappy articles. It never changes. Who needs it.

  23. avatar
    Rickey January 10, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    Keith:
    I grew up in Tucson and have worked for both Pima County and the City of Tucson. You need to be aware that Clarence Dupnik is the most highly regarded Sheriff in the history of the department, has been overwhelmingly reelected every 4 years for 30 years, and the PCSD is one of the most professional LEO’s in the country.

    Not to mention that the Sheriff doesn’t get to choose whether people will be prosecuted – that’s up to the D.A. or the City Attorney. So blaming Sheriff Dupnik because Loughren wasn’t prosecuted for whatever threats he may have made is disingenuous.

    And Squeeky obviously thinks that there is something special about writing an “Internet article.” Anybody with a keyboard and an Internet connection can write an Internet article.

  24. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 10, 2011 at 11:59 pm #

    Rickey:

    Anybody with a keyboard and an Internet connection can write an Internet article.

    Good point, Rick. Anyone can write about anything they want even if they and couldn’t intelligently address the subject matter, like music for example.

  25. avatar
    Lupin January 11, 2011 at 2:24 am #

    Squeeky Fromm is mentally ill (she pretty much admitted as much on her site) and am I the only one to find her pseudonym disturbing?

    When is your DHS going to start profiling white male wingnuts as a far higher security risk than muslims?

    As John Cole aptly said, the point isn’t that shooter is crazy — they all are — it’s that the crazies are being whipped into a frenzy by venal, meretricious, self-serving right-wing politicians.

    Also, political assassination DOES work. Ask Israel. What people like Palin can’t get through democratic means, they’ll pursue through other avenues.

  26. avatar
    obsolete January 11, 2011 at 2:48 am #

    For the 967th time, if you ignore the fake Squeeky (aka political assassin advocate), it will go away and take its “tee hee!” with it.
    And everybody’s IQ on this site will increase by 12 points. Even birthers.

  27. avatar
    Majority Will January 11, 2011 at 7:32 am #

    obsolete: For the 967th time, if you ignore the fake Squeeky (aka political assassin advocate), it will go away and take its “tee hee!” with it.
    And everybody’s IQ on this site will increase by 12 points. Even birthers.

    Hear, hear.

  28. avatar
    Scientist January 11, 2011 at 8:15 am #

    Keith: Excellent posts How much more value there is in those with personal knowledge of the facts compared to those (whom I won’t name) who repost trash from politicos with big axes to grind and do no independent investigation of their own.

    The issue of what to do with the severly mentallly ill is an extremely diifficult one. While there were certainly budgetary motives for de-institutionalizing the mentally ill, it is also true that state mental hospitals were often hell-holes, as has been well documented in books and movies. The de-institutionalization movement started in response to those abuses, with the idea that the de-institutionalized would be treated in community settings. However, the mentally ill often believe they don’t need treatment, and ensuring they stay on meds is not a trivial undertaking.

    In Loughner’s case he was kicked out of community college and his parents were told to get him a mental health evaluation before he could return. Did they? Since he did not return to school, it seems perhaps they didn’t. This, despite his mother being a county employee and likely having pretty good health insurance. But at least the college learned from Virginia Tech and protected the students and faculty.

    That left him out in the community. In that case, what can law enforcement do? The answer, as you noted, is very little. It is almost impossible to civilly commit someone, barring an actual act of violence, which Loughner had not committed until last Saturday. To blame the Sheriff, for political motive,s is astounding, given that he is bound by the law.

    So, regardless of what we do, there will be disturbed individuals out there. What we don’t have to accept is that there will be ARMED disturbed individuals. I am well aware of the 2nd Amendment. However, the laws forbidding convicted felons from owning guns have long been upheld as constitutional. While among those are certainly violent, dangerous people, they also include many non-violent offenders. So, someone who wrote a few bad checks can be denied a gun, while a raving lunatic is free to accumulate an arsenal. At a minimum, there needs to be a provision that someone thrown out of school or let go from a job for serious mental illness be denied guns and ammo. Such individuals would, of course, be free to go to court and show why they were not a risk to society, but until they can do that, they should be barred.

    It’s really preposterous that the law can require us to practically strip naked to get on an airplane, yet countenance armed lunatics roaming the streets.

  29. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 11, 2011 at 9:32 am #

    Scientist: Keith: Excellent posts How much more value there is in those with personal knowledge of the facts compared to those (whom I won’t name) who repost trash from politicos with big axes to grind and do no independent investigation of their own.The issue of what to do with the severly mentallly ill is an extremely diifficult one. While there were certainly budgetary motives for de-institutionalizing the mentally ill, it is also true that state mental hospitals were often hell-holes, as has been well documented in books and movies. The de-institutionalization movement started in response to those abuses, with the idea that the de-institutionalized would be treated in community settings. However, the mentally ill often believe they don’t need treatment, and ensuring they stay on meds is not a trivial undertaking.In Loughner’s case he was kicked out of community college and his parents were told to get him a mental health evaluation before he could return. Did they? Since he did not return to school, it seems perhaps they didn’t. This, despite his mother being a county employee and likely having pretty good health insurance. But at least the college learned from Virginia Tech and protected the students and faculty.That left him out in the community. In that case, what can law enforcement do? The answer, as you noted, is very little. It is almost impossible to civilly commit someone, barring an actual act of violence, which Loughner had not committed until last Saturday. To blame the Sheriff, for political motive,s is astounding, given that he is bound by the law.So, regardless of what we do, there will be disturbed individuals out there. What we don’t have to accept is that there will be ARMED disturbed individuals. I am well aware of the 2nd Amendment. However, the laws forbidding convicted felons from owning guns have long been upheld as constitutional. While among those are certainly violent, dangerous people, they also include many non-violent offenders. So, someone who wrote a few bad checks can be denied a gun, while a raving lunatic is free to accumulate an arsenal. At a minimum, there needs to be a provision that someone thrown out of school or let go from a job for serious mental illness be denied guns and ammo. Such individuals would, of course, be free to go to court and show why they were not a risk to society, but until they can do that, they should be barred.It’s really preposterous that the law can require us to practically strip naked to get on an airplane, yet countenance armed lunatics roaming the streets.

    The NRA has for several years fought hard against any law prohibiting mentally disturbed individuals from owning guns.

  30. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 11, 2011 at 10:20 am #

    Dr. Ken: Way to go Mr. Obsessive!!! 30 lines of quote for two lines of comment!!! Why don’t you get counseling for why you can’t comment without having to quote the whole thing. “Quote is NOT the same thing as “Reply” in some places. If you want to address a person, why not just say “To ABC” or something??? Trees are dying in the rain forest because you refuse to change your ways.

    Plus, I see some of you Obots are still being REPREHENSIBLE in trying politicize the Tucson Massacre. I guess Obama taught you well, about being SLIMY being OK as long as it is for political gain.Like I said in my latest Internet Article, Westboro Baptist Church will probably give you some tips!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  31. avatar
    gorefan January 11, 2011 at 1:41 pm #

    Here is a change of pace.

    John R. Vile in his book, “The Constitutional Convention of 1787: A Comprehensive Encyclopedia of American Founding” writes,

    “James R. Stoner, Jr. has identified four ways in which common law influenced the U.S. Constitution. Consistent with some of the discussions at the Convention examined above, he first observes that the common law provided some of the language of the document. He specifically cites the provisions related to habeas corpus, ex post facto laws, the provision that an individual be “natural born,” and the term “good behavior” (2003, 17). He believes that, unless otherwise stated, the presumption was that such words would continue to maintain their existing meaning.

    Why is this significant. Besides being the Chair of the Department of Government and a professor of political science at Louisiana State University, Dr. Stoner is the Professor of Charity at Beck University.

    So maybe this is why Glenn Beck laughs at the birthers. When the issue came up, he called Professor Stoner to get his thoughts. And Dr. Stoner told him, the President was born in Hawaii and is a natural born citizen.

  32. avatar
    Black Lion January 11, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    Missed with the attention on the shooting in AZ was this tidbit regarding Andy Martin from the Post and Fail….It looks like he is claiming that some of his history was falsified and is blaming Wikpedia for that….Below are some of the relevant excerpts from the article….

    “On December 27, 2010, The Post & Email reported that Andy Martin would be announcing his candidacy for the office of President of the United States for 2012. Martin had planned to make the announcement in Chicago, but the location was changed due to a snowstorm which grounded flights and closed many airports in the Northeast.

    Martin has been an outspoken critic of Barack Hussein Obama and has questioned his stated birthplace, religion, background and eligibility for the presidency.

    Of his decision to run for President, Martin stated:

    I want to thank Hawai’i Governor Neal [sic] Abercrombie for motivating me to make a final decision to run. Abercrombie’s Christmas Eve attacks on Birthers’ were disgraceful. (link below) While I am not a reluctant candidate I am not particularly looking ahead to criss-crossing the nation.
    …………….

    On December 29, The Post & Email asked Mr. Martin if he would be willing to release his long-form birth certificate, information about his parents and their citizenship, and anything else that would prove that he is a “natural born Citizen” consistent with the constitutional requirements to serve as president.

    On January 2, 2011, Mr. Martin responded:

    We have had a couple of more requests similar to yours to release personal data. I strongly support the concept. However, I believe that the overall goal of making Obama release information in his case is better served by making my information available as part of a reciprocal agreement with other candidates including Obama. Premature release on my part does not serve the larger cause of getting Obama to comply. In other words, we are working to obtain release of all candidates’ information as part of a larger strategy.

    In the past I have made my personal information available and no one else followed through.

    Personally I would welcome the adoption of a statute requiring release, so that all candidates would then be on the same level playing field. Candidate releases should not come individually but as part of an overall plan. Unlike Barack Obama, which is an unusual name, identity theft is a very real problem for lesser known candidates with more common names. I was recently the victim of an identity theft incident that has made me more cautious in this regard.
    ………….

    On January 7, 2011, a reader of The Post & Email sent a Wikipedia link which referenced a person by the name of “Anthony Robert Martin-Trigona,” aka “Andy Martin.” The information provided there appears to this writer to contain content which would not normally be included in a factual news summary. While some of the information coincides with that which Martin has presented, the Wikipedia article falsely claims that “Hawaii…does not use long-form birth certificates.” However, a researcher last summer filmed a video of a person requesting and paying $10.00 for a copy of her long-form birth certificate at the Hawaii Department of Health.

    Martin’s response to our inquiry regarding the Wikipedia summary reads:

    We have sued Wikipedia alleging that their claims about me are fraudulent. The case is pending in the Circuit Court of Sangamon County, Illinois. I think we even posted a copy of the lawsuit on the Internet last year. Wikipedia is a tax-exempt pro-Obama smear organization that has been exposed as supporting Obama by censoring news of his past and seeking to defame his opposition. I would be very, very careful about dealing with anyone who is seeking to have you rely on Wikipedia. They are probably Obamabots who are seeking to undermine your efforts.

    Looks like Obama is very worried about my candidacy if he is attacking me already.

    Please feel free to publish this response to your inquiry.

    Andy Martin

    A New York Times article from October 2008 asserted that Martin had started “false rumors” about Barack Hussein Obama’s background and that “Obama…is Christian.” However, since that time, there have been credible reports that Obama has himself stated that he is a Muslim.

    The author of the New York Times article shows no proof of his claims, instead criticizing Fox News for having “allowed Mr. Martin to assert falsely and without challenge that Mr. Obama had once trained to overthrow the government” during an appearance on the show “Hannity’s America.” Some of the links provided in the article lead to general topics rather than supporting references for the writer’s specific statements. No documentation is provided to support such contentions as “In the 1990s, Mr. Martin was jailed in a case in Florida involving a physical altercation.”

    The Post & Email contends that any statement made without supporting documentation or evidence can be considered nothing more than rumor, innuendo, or falsehood of which many in the mainstream media are guilty. Journalism is asking questions and presenting factual answers to them, not editorializing.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/08/presidential-candidate-andy-martin-responds-to-requests-for-eligibility-proof/#comments

  33. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 11, 2011 at 2:12 pm #

    gorefan: Here is a change of pace.John R. Vile in his book, “The Constitutional Convention of 1787: A Comprehensive Encyclopedia of American Founding” writes,“James R. Stoner, Jr. has identified four ways in which common law influenced the U.S. Constitution. Consistent with some of the discussions at the Convention examined above, he first observes that the common law provided some of the language of the document. He specifically cites the provisions related to habeas corpus, ex post facto laws, the provision that an individual be “natural born,” and the term “good behavior” (2003, 17). He believes that, unless otherwise stated, the presumption was that such words would continue to maintain their existing meaning.Why is this significant. Besides being the Chair of the Department of Government and a professor of political science at Louisiana State University, Dr. Stoner is the Professor of Charity at Beck University.So maybe this is why Glenn Beck laughs at the birthers. When the issue came up, he called Professor Stoner to get his thoughts. And Dr. Stoner told him, the President was born in Hawaii and is a natural born citizen.

    Oh but you know Gorefan this can’t be right because his name is Dr. Stoner and we know all university folks are elitist stoners who make up their own facts tee hee. Okay yeah there goes imitating them.

  34. avatar
    Black Lion January 11, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    And of course the articles are still coming out trying to shift the blame of the AZ shooter and make him seem like some sort of liberal or “left winger”….They focus on the books by Hitler and Marx and neglect to mention the ones by Ayn Rand….

    “At the direction of the Southern Poverty Law Center, the Obama Administration and Department of Homeland Security (DHS) had established a profile for what they call “potential domestic terrorists” of grave concern in the DHS Intel Report titled “Rightwing Extremism.”
    ………………

    In short, Loughner has a screw loose, and his Internet activities demonstrate an increasing level of mental disorder in the weeks and months leading up to his actions in Tucson on January 8th. But he in no way fits the Obama administration’s current profile for rightwing Tea Party terrorist. Quite the contrary, actually…

    Well-known leftwing blog The Daily KOS has reportedly pulled a recent posting calling for the targeting of Democrat members of Congress who voted against ObamaCare and other leftwing agenda items. Giffords was one of those targets, – Congresswoman Giffords Is Dead To Me – says Daily KOS, only two days before shooting… (Daily KOS has since pulled the posting)
    ……………………

    It isn’t Rush Limbaugh who called for violent armed revolution in America, but rather leftwing hero and Pulitzer finalist Ted Rall.

    Maybe Obama’s DHS should reconsider its definition of “domestic terrorist?” I am ultra conservative, which means I oppose extremism at both ends of the political spectrum and I am for peaceful political solutions. Loughner and I share nothing in common.

    While at it, the left should redefine its concept of “hate.” Opposing lawlessness is not an act of “hate.” Supporting the rule of law and upholding the Constitution is an act of patriotism, not an act of “hate.”
    _________________________________________

    Interesting are the comments….

    Billie says:
    Monday, January 10, 2011 at 10:21 PM
    The hypocracy is amazing from the Obots. Over at the quote Native and Natural Born Citizen unquote they are talking about hunting birthers like animals in season. So why don’t they get a visit from the DHS? Look out the bit where they are “bagging birthers” on this page.

    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/six-people-shot-and-killed-and-18-injured/

    Bev says:
    Tuesday, January 11, 2011 at 11:40 AM
    I believe this is why this all happened.
    http://www.eutimes.net/2011/01/top-us-federal-judge-assassinated-after-threat-to-obama-agenda/
    ————————–
    Mrs. Rondeau replies: I have found the EU Times to be unreliable at best.

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/10/arizona-shooter-did-not-fit-dhs-domestic-terror-profile/#comments

  35. avatar
    Majority Will January 11, 2011 at 2:20 pm #

    Black Lion: Missed with the attention on the shooting in AZ was this tidbit regarding Andy Martin from the Post and Fail….It looks like he is claiming that some of his history was falsified and is blaming Wikpedia for that….Below are some of the relevant excerpts from the article….“On December 27, 2010, The Post & Email reported that Andy Martin would be announcing his candidacy for the office of President of the United States for 2012.Martin had planned to make the announcement in Chicago, but the location was changed due to a snowstorm which grounded flights and closed many airports in the Northeast.Martin has been an outspoken critic of Barack Hussein Obama and has questioned his stated birthplace, religion, background and eligibility for the presidency.Of his decision to run for President, Martin stated:I want to thank Hawai’i Governor Neal [sic] Abercrombie for motivating me to make a final decision to run. Abercrombie’s Christmas Eve attacks on Birthers’ were disgraceful. (link below) While I am not a reluctant candidate I am not particularly looking ahead to criss-crossing the nation.
    …………….On December 29, The Post & Email asked Mr. Martin if he would be willing to release his long-form birth certificate, information about his parents and their citizenship, and anything else that would prove that he is a “natural born Citizen” consistent with the constitutional requirements to serve as president.On January 2, 2011, Mr. Martin responded:We have had a couple of more requests similar to yours to release personal data. I strongly support the concept. However, I believe that the overall goal of making Obama release information in his case is better served by making my information available as part of a reciprocal agreement with other candidates including Obama. Premature release on my part does not serve the larger cause of getting Obama to comply. In other words, we are working to obtain release of all candidates’ information as part of a larger strategy.In the past I have made my personal information available and no one else followed through.Personally I would welcome the adoption of a statute requiring release, so that all candidates would then be on the same level playing field. Candidate releases should not come individually but as part of an overall plan. Unlike Barack Obama, which is an unusual name, identity theft is a very real problem for lesser known candidates with more common names. I was recently the victim of an identity theft incident that has made me more cautious in this regard.
    ………….On January 7, 2011, a reader of The Post & Email sent a Wikipedia link which referenced a person by the name of “Anthony Robert Martin-Trigona,” aka “Andy Martin.”The information provided there appears to this writer to contain content which would not normally be included in a factual news summary.While some of the information coincides with that which Martin has presented, the Wikipedia article falsely claims that “Hawaii…does not use long-form birth certificates.”However, a researcher last summer filmed a video of a person requesting and paying $10.00 for a copy of her long-form birth certificate at the Hawaii Department of Health.Martin’s response to our inquiry regarding the Wikipedia summary reads:We have sued Wikipedia alleging that their claims about me are fraudulent. The case is pending in the Circuit Court of Sangamon County, Illinois. I think we even posted a copy of the lawsuit on the Internet last year. Wikipedia is a tax-exempt pro-Obama smear organization that has been exposed as supporting Obama by censoring news of his past and seeking to defame his opposition. I would be very, very careful about dealing with anyone who is seeking to have you rely on Wikipedia. They are probably Obamabots who are seeking to undermine your efforts.Looks like Obama is very worried about my candidacy if he is attacking me already.Please feel free to publish this response to your inquiry.Andy MartinA New York Times article from October 2008 asserted that Martin had started “false rumors” about Barack Hussein Obama’s background and that “Obama…is Christian.” However, since that time, there have been credible reports that Obama has himself stated that he is a Muslim.The author of the New York Times article shows no proof ofhis claims, instead criticizing Fox News for having “allowed Mr. Martin to assert falsely and without challenge that Mr. Obama had once trained to overthrow the government” during an appearance on the show “Hannity’s America.”Some of the links provided in the article lead to general topics rather than supporting references for the writer’s specific statements.No documentation is provided to support such contentions as “In the 1990s, Mr. Martin was jailed in a case in Florida involving a physical altercation.”The Post & Email contends that any statement made without supporting documentation or evidence can be considered nothing more than rumor, innuendo, or falsehood of which many in the mainstream media are guilty.Journalism is asking questions and presenting factual answers to them, not editorializing.”http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/08/presidential-candidate-andy-martin-responds-to-requests-for-eligibility-proof/#comments

    We might as well start calling him Andy Martyr then.

    Another deranged narcissist like Aputzo, Taintz and Borg.

  36. avatar
    Black Lion January 11, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    WND is at it again….

    No, Really: WND’s Klein Tries to Blame AZ Shooting On Bill Ayers
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    It appears that selectively quoting from Jared Loughner’s reading list was only the beginning of the misinformation and outright falsehoods WorldNetDaily’s Aaron Klein intends to peddle about the Arizona shooting.

    Because apparently Bill Ayers must be worked into this story somehow, a Jan. 10 article by Klein begins:

    Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in Saturday’s Arizona shooting, attended a high school that is part of a network in which teachers are trained and provided resources by a liberal group founded by Weatherman terrorist Bill Ayers and funded by President Obama, WND has learned.

    The group, Small Schools Workshop, has been led by a former top communist activist who is an associate of Ayers.

    What is missing from Klein’s article is any evidence that the curriculum at the high school Loughter attended is “communist,” related to ’60s radicalism, or even “liberal.”

    Without any facts to back up his implication that Ayers taught Loughter how to be a terrorist — and because Klein and his research assistant Brenda J. Elliott, who also helped Klein with his factually dubious smear book on President Obama, couldn’t be bothered to find out what actually is being taught — this is yet another smearpiece rehasing the same tired claims about how Ayers is a unrepentant terrorist and, of course, a close personal friend of President Obama.

    This is just another reminder of just how sleazy a reporter Klein is — and how sleazy WND and Joseph Farah are for employing someone who engages in such dishonest reporting.

    Meanwhile, Klein’s original misleading claim has been passed on to others on the staff. A Jan. 10 WND article by Drew Zahn states that “Loughner also listed on his YouTube channel among his favorite books Karl Marx’s ‘The Communist Manifesto’ and Adolf Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf,’ casting further doubt on the notion that he was an angered tea-party type.” Like Klein, Zahn fails to note the existence of other books on Loughner’s list, including several anti-totalitarian books such as Ayn Rand’s “We the Living.”

    Corsi Joins WND’s Ariz. Shooting Misinfo Parade
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    Somebody, it seems, doesn’t want Aaron Klein to have all the fun in slinging false and misleading claims at WorldNetDaily about the Arizona shooting. Jerome Corsi wants a piece of that action, too.

    Corsi jumped into the fray with a Jan. 9 article featuring the bizarre assertion that “the YouTube website of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords suggests she subscribed to the YouTube channel of her suspected attempted assassin, Jarred Loughner, at some point before the shooting incident.” While his article contains a lot of screenshots of web pages, none of them prove that, as Corsi later stated, “Gifford subscribed to Loughner’s website since Oct. 25, 2010.”

    Even later, Corsi contradicts himself: “A cached version of the Giffords website, dated Dec. 26, shows there was no link to the suspect’s channel on that date.” But rather than accepting the logical explanation that Giffords did not subscribe to Loughter’s page at the time and only did so after the shooting, Corsi speculated that this lack of evidence was “giving rise to speculation that the site was changed after that point, or possibly even hacked.”

    The only source Corsi cites for any of this is speculation from right-wing Muslim-hater (and former Newsmax columnist) Pam Geller.

    As if that weren’t enough, Corsi throws in a completely false claim, that “is now known that Loughner worked for Gifford’s election campaign in 2007.” In fact, all that is known — as Corsi acknowledges at the end of his article — is that “in Loughner’s home was found a form letter from Giffords’ office, thanking him for attending a 2007 event.” That is not the same thing as having “worked for Gifford’s election campaign.”

    But then, this is the same guy whose vaunted documents he obtained during a trip to Kenya to find something to smear President Obama with were clearly fakes (not that Corsi has ever acknowledged that fact, mind you).

    If that bit of incompetence wasn’t enough, Corsi then tries to present himself as an expert on punk rock, asserting in a Jan. 10 article that Loughner “may have been inspired by the radical leftist punk-rock band Anti-Flag, one of his favorite bands.”

    Essentially, all Corsi has done here is read a tweet by someone who claimed Anti-Flag was one of Loughner’s favorite bands, found a music lyrics website (he even links to it) and copied-and-pasted from selected songs. That, apparently, is Corsi’s idea of journalism.

    for good measure, Corsi also throws is a gratuitous, unsupported slam on an unrelated figure he apparently despises. Noting that Reuters Media’s Anthony DeRosa was corresponding viaTwitter with the Loughner friend who made the claim about Anti-Flag, Corsi added that DeRosa “has had a history of tweeting continuing attacks on Fox News and Fox News talk show hosts Glenn Beck and Bill O’Reilly, as well as a wide range of conservative media and political figures.” He offers no evidence to back up this claim, and it’s immaterial to his attack on music he undoubtedly doesn’t like.

    DeRosa, by the way, is not even a journalist, as Corsi suggests; he describes himself as “a Proposition Leader at Reuters Media working on strategic partnerships in print, online and broadcast media.”

    But then, Corsi’s own journalistic standards are pretty abysmal, so it’s unlikely he knows the difference.

    UPDATE: For a much more responsible and less deliberately inflammatory take on the same subject, the Washington Post examines another song linked to Loughner and, unlike Corsi, talks to actual experts on the issue.

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/

  37. avatar
    Jules January 11, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    I have just received a vault copy of my birth certificate with letter of exemplification. I plan to have it apostilled in case I ever need to present my birth certificate in the UK.

    I have discovered an anomaly that would surely lead any birther to allege that my certificate is a fraud. Both my vault copy and abstract copy indicate that the “date filed” is 13 days after I was born. However, the date corresponding to the signature of the hospital administrator is more than one month after the date of filing.

    I would be curious to know the procedure by which the certificate is filed prior to the document being signed. Perhaps Dr C can shed some light on the matter when he gets back.

  38. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 11, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    Well, I am just firing back in the partisan battle about the Tucson Massacre!!!

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/the-jared-secret-democrats-are-terrified-of/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  39. avatar
    Northland10 January 11, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    Black Lion quoting a confused birther: Well-known leftwing blog The Daily KOS has reportedly pulled a recent posting calling for the targeting of Democrat members of Congress who voted against ObamaCare and other leftwing agenda items. Giffords was one of those targets

    What are they talking about? As best as I can tell from her site, she voted for health care reform and the stimulus. She also spoke out against the AZ immigration law (while still speaking for a stronger border). It appears this is a strong example of how the various birthers are making things up as they go along.

  40. avatar
    gorefan January 11, 2011 at 10:28 pm #

    For the practicing lawyers and even if your not, I thought you might find this interesting:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=law%20school&st=cse

  41. avatar
    Rickey January 11, 2011 at 10:37 pm #

    Northland10:
    What are they talking about?As best as I can tell from her site, she voted for health care reform and the stimulus.She also spoke out against the AZ immigration law (while still speaking for a stronger border).It appears this is a strong example of how the various birthers are making things up as they go along.

    Back in the summer of 2008 Daily Kos made a list of the Democrats in Congress who had voted for the bill which protected AT&T and other telecoms from liability for providing the government with Internet and phone records of customers without warrants. As I recall, the Kos article listed those Democrats (one of whom was Rep. Giffords) as potential “targets” for primary challenges. There were no cross-hairs or bulls-eyes. It had nothing to do with Obama, who of course had not even been nominated yet.

  42. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 11, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    Northland10:
    What are they talking about?As best as I can tell from her site, she voted for health care reform and the stimulus.She also spoke out against the AZ immigration law (while still speaking for a stronger border).It appears this is a strong example of how the various birthers are making things up as they go along.

    Dailykos also never pulled the entry. But yes they do make things up as they go along. Even more chilling is this poll from CBS:

    Do you think it is ever justified for citizens to take violent action against the government, or is it never justified?
    Republican 28% yes, 64% no
    Democrat 11% yes, 81% no
    Independent 11% yes, 81% no

    While a smile fringe of independents and democrats believe its justified over a quarter of republicans believe it is justified.

  43. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2011 at 11:59 pm #

    Jules: I would be curious to know the procedure by which the certificate is filed prior to the document being signed. Perhaps Dr C can shed some light on the matter when he gets back.

    Your example is certainly odd. The only normal situation where this might happen is if the certificate were filed without the required signature, and then sent back to get it signed.

    If there is one thing you can be sure of, every jurisdiction has their own little quirks of procedure and usage of terms. I made a good living dealing with all of this mess.

  44. avatar
    US Citizen January 12, 2011 at 12:18 am #

    SqueekyFromm: Well, I am just firing back in the partisan battle about the Tucson Massacre!!!http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/the-jared-secret-democrats-are-terrified-of/Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Sorry, but you can either be a reporter (an unbiased reporter of news) or a political commentator.
    Since you’re “firing back”, one can assume you’re the later.

    You’re too young to remember this reference, but I can’t help saying “Squeeky Fromm, Girl reporter” the same way that Dan Aykroyd said “Fred Garvin, Male prostitute” on SNL.

  45. avatar
    James M January 12, 2011 at 2:30 am #

    SqueekyFromm:

    Well, I am just firing back in the partisan battle about the Tucson Massacre!!!

    Partisan battle? Anger and suggestions of violent revolution are not “parties”. You are the one claiming sides in a partisan context, and you are coming down aligned with people who talk about things like violent overthrow of government, secession, elected officials being unlawful usurpers, and so forth. This isn’t a “partisan battle”, it’s an observation of the general tone, increasingly bellicose, that contemporary politics have taken in the past decade.

    I do not honestly believe there are enough dwellers on that fringe to constitute a “partisan” *anything.*

  46. avatar
    obsolete January 12, 2011 at 3:24 am #

    I’ll save you visiting the link the link to the fake Squeeky’s blog- here is a summary.
    1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

  47. avatar
    Majority Will January 12, 2011 at 3:25 am #

    James M:
    Partisan battle?Anger and suggestions of violent revolution are not “parties”.You are the one claiming sides in a partisan context, and you are coming down aligned with people whotalk about things like violent overthrow of government, secession, elected officials being unlawful usurpers, and so forth.This isn’t a “partisan battle”, it’s an observation of the general tone, increasingly bellicose, that contemporary politics have taken in the past decade.I do not honestly believe there are enough dwellers on that fringe to constitute a “partisan” *anything.*

    I honestly don’t understand why you’re still responding to and encouraging the deranged, drunken freak. As if openly and unashamedly promoting political assassination wasn’t bad enough but mainly because any sane person here can predict any and every single response from this needy, spamming birther troll.

    Seriously, why? Entertainment?

  48. avatar
    Lupin January 12, 2011 at 4:07 am #

    FWIW we had a couple of articles about the Tucson shooting in my local rag. (I’m referring to L’INDEPENDENT, a somewhat apolitical regional newspaper that covers most of Southern France.)

    Amusingly enough (in a dark sort of way), it was sandwiched between the other violent troubles in Tunisia and Ivory Coast. The unwanted parallel (I’m sure) was “oh look the savages are at it again.”

    The editorial comments explained to the Average French Reader in laborious terms the special “gun situation” in the US, sort of like the Hitch-Hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy explains Vogon poetry. We all have our share of lunatics; it’s just that here, they’re not armed.

    I suppose it’s like alcohol: if we were really serious about reducing deaths by drunk driving, we’d do something about alcohol consumption; but since that would be arguably worse or more difficult, then we accept that the price to pay is x many deaths. Same with guns in the US: massacres are just the price you’re willing to pay for that “freedom”.

    The article quoted President Obama and the local Sheriff’s comments, but without making any connection between political discourse and the shooting; I myself remain unconvinced on that issue.

  49. avatar
    The Magic M January 12, 2011 at 5:55 am #

    > if we were really serious about reducing deaths by drunk driving, we’d do something about alcohol consumption; but since that would be arguably worse or more difficult, then we accept that the price to pay is x many deaths

    Besides, history has shown that isolated incidents (such as the AZ shooting) can never be prevented by “simply” broadly outlawing the technical cause (guns, alcohol, drugs, …). No matter how outlawed, there will always be people who get a hold of the stuff and abuse it to the harm of others.
    (My home country Germany has very strict laws towards gun ownership, yet we have our occasional shooting massacre every other year – if only because some deranged juvenile breaks into his father’s rifle compartment and then runs amok in his school.)

    But of course the birthers are already heavily spinning their “it was a false-flag event staged to prepare taking away the 2nd amendment” stuff…

  50. avatar
    Jules January 12, 2011 at 9:16 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Your example is certainly odd. The only normal situation where this might happen is if the certificate were filed without the required signature, and then sent back to get it signed.

    If there is one thing you can be sure of, every jurisdiction has their own little quirks of procedure and usage of terms. I made a good living dealing with all of this mess.

    I have a theory as to what happened. I have been told by my parents that they planned to give me a different middle name and even had a hospital souvenir certificate which had the middle name that was originally intended, but that the middle name that they chose later went on the official birth certificate.

    My vault copy has the entry for “Date filed” field handwritten and “Original” is handwritten there as well. I suspect that the hospital did file a birth certificate with the middle name that my parents initially planned to give me and then submitted another when my parents changed their minds. If this is the case, however, then it does not explain why there is nothing in the “Information added or amended” field on my vault copy.

    Of course, the birther explanation for my certificate would be that my mother gave birth to me in Canada and then committed a massive fraud in New York to avoid having to bother getting a consular report of birth from the nearest US consulate.

  51. avatar
    The Magic M January 12, 2011 at 9:33 am #

    > to avoid having to bother getting a consular report of birth from the nearest US consulate

    And to ensure you’ll become President 50 years later as they and the Marxist friends and foreign overlords had planned already decades before you were conceived. 😉

  52. avatar
    Scientist January 12, 2011 at 9:40 am #

    Magic M- First, drunk driving fatalities HAVE fallen substantially since 1982-they are about 1/4 the rate they were in 1982 per mile driven.
    http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/drunk-driving-deaths-are-way-down-but/
    Part is due to the overall improved safety of cars, but part is also due to education efforts that have changed attitudes from “It’s a rite of passage, no big deal” to “It’s stupid and dangerous”. Groups of young people who go out drinking routinely appoint a designated driver these days.

    As far as guns, the fact that even with strict gun laws, shootings by crazed persons can still happen is not the point. It is an undeniable fact that the frequency of such events is lower in countries that have stricter gun laws. No one is proposing banning guns. The point is to make it harder for the mentally unbalanced to get them. Of course we can never make it impossible, but I still lock my house even though I know that skilled burglars can defeat any locks.

  53. avatar
    Black Lion January 12, 2011 at 10:07 am #

    Rickey: Back in the summer of 2008 Daily Kos made a list of the Democrats in Congress who had voted for the bill which protected AT&T and other telecoms from liability for providing the government with Internet and phone records of customers without warrants. As I recall, the Kos article listed those Democrats (one of whom was Rep. Giffords) as potential “targets” for primary challenges. There were no cross-hairs or bulls-eyes. It had nothing to do with Obama, who of course had not even been nominated yet.

    Rickey, you are correct….But when would the truth ever stop a WND or right wing narrative it they can sell it in a way to discredit people they don’t like….

    Bozell Pushes Ariz. Shooting Falsehoods
    Topic: Media Research Center

    The Media Research Center’s Brent Bozell was clearly in a lying mood during his Jan. 10 interview with Newsmax to discuss news coverage of the Arizona shooting.

    “Note how quickly the New York Times came out with an editorial calling for the Fairness Doctrine as a result of this,” Bozell said. But that didn’t happen — in fact, a search of the Times’ website indicates no mention of “fairness doctrine” anywhere in the Times in the past 30 days.

    The closest a Times editorial published between the shooting and Bozell’s interview came to discussing speech issues regarding the shooting is a Jan. 10 editorial that called for “quieting the voices of intolerance,” which is not even remotely the same thing as “calling for the Fairness Doctrine.”

    Bozell also asserted that “The Daily Kos whackjob website has got targets over faces that they don’t like.” Not true either — in fact, Daily Kos has issued no graphics containing a bulls-eye image regarding Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, one victim of the shooting.

    Bozell, by the way, is the same guy who is complaining that conseratives are being unfairly maligned over the shooting.

  54. avatar
    Black Lion January 12, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    WND Using Massacre to Sell Books
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    Lest anyone actually think that WorldNetDaily puts principles before money, note the promotional ad inserted into this Jan. 10 WND article:

    “Who really inspired Jared Lee Loughner? Read Richard Wurmbrand’s Marx & Satan to find out.”

    The link goes to the page for the “Marx & Satan” book at the WND online store.

    That’s right — WND invoking the alleged perpetrator of the Arizona massacre to sell books.

    How utterly craven can one be?

    UPDATE: WND continues the cravenness with an article-length plug arguing “the biblical case for armed self-defense,” calling it the “common-sense, tried-and-true biblical and constitutional prescription” to “a man-made disaster like the Arizona massacre.”

    WND’s article…

    “The American Patriot Foundation has received dozens of threatening phone message, e-mails and letters during “birther” Army officer Terrence Lakin’s legal proceedings the past few months, including two letters that view the words “GOP” and “Birthers” through a sniper scope.

    An APF official claims the threats are inspired by media attacks on people who question President Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve in the White House, even as many media figures are attempting to blame the Tucson massacre on harsh rhetoric from Republicans and conservatives.

    “I’ve been called a subversive and an enemy of the state, not to mention moron, insufferable little b-tch and a lot of other similar nasty comments,” APF’s Margaret Hemenway told WND. “I write a lot of them back to tell them that e-mail rage, like road rage, is neither healthy nor adult behavior and remind them it is the fundamental obligation of citizenship to support the U.S. Constitution.”
    ……….

    Hemenway sent the following letter, postmarked in Columbus, Ohio, to the U.S. Post Office authorities to be investigated because it contained a direct threat:

    “This is to inform you that LTC Larkin (sic) is a F—— COWARD who should be put in front of a firing squad and shot. If I see his a– on the streets of Washington I will save the government the expense of a trial, I’ll dip a bullet in s— and shoot him in the head. This f— off deserves to die on the streets of America.”
    …………………..

    The incendiary rhetoric and threats aimed at “birthers” could be inspired by over-the-top rhetoric by some figures in the media, in Hemenway’s view.

    “I’m just sick of the vitriol and hate mongering of the liberal media, decrying ‘birthers’ as whack jobs, lunatics, fringe, etc. Their venom has encouraged this type of email, phone calls and letter threats,” Hemenway told WND.

    Hemenway cited CNN host Anderson Cooper and a guest on one of Cooper’s shows, commentator Jeffrey Toobin.

    “Toobin called us a ‘racist, freak, lunatic fringe’ on Cooper’s show,” said Hemenway, who added that Cooper himself has directed abusive language at people who question Obama’s eligibility. “You don’t think this encourages attacks against us? They deserve to be held accountable for their comments.”

    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=249673#ixzz1Apm8YJwR

  55. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 12, 2011 at 10:42 am #

    Sarah Palin addresses the REPREHENSIBLE Democratic GHOULS who try to get votes, shut down free speech, and raise campaign funds off the poor dead people in Tucson. For what it is worth, wiki defines a GHOUL as:

    “The Arabian ghoul is a desert-dwelling, shapeshifting demon that can assume the guise of an animal, especially a hyena. It lures unwary travellers into the desert wastes to slay and devour them. The creature also preys on young children, robs graves, drinks blood, steals coins and eats the dead.”

    http://vimeo.com/18698532

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  56. avatar
    Black Lion January 12, 2011 at 11:18 am #

    Good article over at Slate…

    “There’s something offensive, as well as pointless, about the politically charged inquiry into what might have been swirling inside the head of Jared Loughner. We hear that the accused shooter read The Communist Manifesto and liked flag-burning videos—good news for the right. Wait—he was a devotee of Ayn Rand and favored the gold standard, so he was a right-winger after all. Some assassinations embody an ideology, however twisted. Based on what we know so far, the Tucson killings look like more like politically tinged schizophrenia.

    “To call his crime an attempted assassination is to acknowledge that it appears to have had a political and not merely a personal context. That context wasn’t Islamic radicalism, Puerto Rican independence, or anarcho-syndicalism. It was the anti-government, pro-gun, xenophobic populism that flourishes in the dry and angry climate of Arizona. Extremist shouters didn’t program Loughner, in some mechanistic way, to shoot Gabrielle Giffords. But the Tea Party movement did make it appreciably more likely that a disturbed person like Loughner would react, would be able to react, and would not be prevented from reacting, in the crazy way he did.

    At the core of the far right’s culpability is its ongoing attack on the legitimacy of U.S. government—a venomous campaign not so different from the backdrop to the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. Then it was focused on “government bureaucrats” and the ATF. This time it has been more about Obama’s birth certificate and health care reform. In either case, it expresses the dangerous idea that the federal government lacks valid authority. It is this, rather than violent rhetoric per se, that is the most dangerous aspect of right-wing extremism.”

    “First you rile up psychotics with inflammatory language about tyranny, betrayal, and taking back the country. Then you make easy for them to get guns. But if you really want trouble, you should also make it hard for them to get treatment for mental illness. I don’t know if Loughner had health insurance, but he falls into a pool of people who often go uninsured—not young enough to be covered by parents (until the health-care bill’s coverage of twentysomethings kicked in a few months ago), not old enough for Medicare, not poor enough for Medicaid. If such a person happens to have a history of mental illness, he will be effectively uninsurable. To get treatment, he actually has to commit a crime. If Republicans succeed in repealing the Obama health care bill, that’s how it will remain.”

    http://www.slate.com/id/2280711

  57. avatar
    James M January 12, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    SqueekyFromm:

    Sarah Palin addresses the REPREHENSIBLE Democratic GHOULS who try to get votes, shut down free speech, and raise campaign funds off the poor dead people in Tucson.

    Sarah Palin is talking about herself while invoking some really horrid language from the worst period of anti-semitism, and Rep. Giffords isn’t even out of ICU.

    She’s really not doing herself any favors.

  58. avatar
    Black Lion January 12, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    And from the insane rantings of Lame Cherry….

    “The problem in this is Democrats, from DC to that Pima County pinhead attention whore Sheriff who are giving Matt Drudge days of headlines to give a stage to this intellectual actor.

    Jared Loughner is delighted and well pleased for this attention as proven by his mug shot. He has manipulated and gotten his 15 minutes of fame, proving he is more of a player in this than the media manipulators. He is a sociopath who is being fed the venom of the world and gets high on the bite.

    It is not just Democrats who are making political gain in this who are the threat to America, but the real threat are these liberals who are deliberately giving Loughner the attention, knowing in profile that there are 1000 Jared Loughners across America just percolating in their dark rooms, sitting in their underwear and plotting their major break on the silver screen.

    This is the criminal aspect of this in Democrats just as they staged the Owens and Frank event about the Tea Party in “q**er” and “ni**er” words never recorded or heard, these same Democrats, which include Barack Hussein Obama, are begging that several dozen of these white intellectuals of the left rise up and grab their own attention in violence to further the Obama cause.
    …….

    What do you think Napolitano and Holder are going to do, but use these incited attacks to deflect from Obama’s crimes and further the regime’s crackdown on Americans.
    Congress already postponed a vote on Obamacrypt, because of this Gabrielle Giffords event.

    America is frozen by one sociopath in Arizona prison and another sociopath in the Oval Office is plotting with Val-erie Jarrett in the war room in how this all can be moved to advantage.”

    http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2011/01/jared-loughner-is-not-threat.html

  59. avatar
    Black Lion January 12, 2011 at 12:06 pm #

    More loony birthers from the Post and Fail…This time they print some letter from that a birther wingnut sent to the FL AG….

    “Congratulations on your recent victorious election! I voted for you, and Messrs. Scott and Putnam. What compels me to write today is my duty to refer to you a most serious and egregious crime against our state. Attached by paper clip, please find today’s Certified Copy of a Tacit Admission of Ineligibility (the “Confession”) filed in Pinellas county: Connerat vs. Obama [522009SC005522XXSCSC]. There was no appeal of this case or this notice; therefore, such damning evidence must be presumed veritable. It is unassailable. University of Virginia colleague, and ‘guardian of the keg,’ Ken Cuccinelli was mailed a Certified Copy, dated 10/18/2010. U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson granted approval to file another Certified Copy of such document, dated 3/18/2010, in the highly-publicized case, Virginia v. Sebelius (see Docket entries 92, 93, 94). I also filed a Certified Copy, dated 10/18/2010 in the sister’ Florida lawsuit (Docket entry 140), of which you must certainly be aware. Although my Motion for leave to file an amicus brief was denied, the “Confession” remains. These two tacit admissions, filed in two distinct circuits, incriminate the usurper at the federal level; this referral concerns his crime against Florida.

    In Article I, Section 20 of our Florida Constitution, the crime of Treason is defined. Logically, if Barack is engaged in Treason against the United States, he commits Treason against Florida. Being saluted, flying in Air Force jets, speaking in front of a podium with the Seal, and giving speeches to a joint sessions of Congress does not a President make. Pam, via Boolean logic, you know as well as I do that if one is ineligible under Law, then he is not President. Therefore, you and Ken may now have a different tack in these lawsuits – the “no man might buy or sell” ‘Law’ is void ab initio, for it was never validly enacted, signed by one without authority. It is counterfeit.

    Although Mr. Scott’s cabinet swore an allegiance to the government of the United States, the presumption is that such bound is to a lawful government. You are my Attorney General, the first female (but not the last…you have inspired many!) to hold such esteemed Office, in Florida. It is incumbent upon you to review this referral. I will be happy to give testimony to a Grand Jury, although if you decide to prosecute, you’ll get the indictment warranted, with or without my assistance. Other People and States are similarly afflicted, yet we must focus on the following questions: Is this “usurper of the kind most vile, injuring not with the Sword, but with the slogan and smile” our lawful President? Is a violation of Article 2, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution tantamount to a crime against Florida? State Statute 905.34(7) gives the Grand Jury (due process) jurisdiction over “Any crime involving, or resulting in, fraud or deceit upon any person.” Millions of Floridians were unwittingly deceived in the 2008 election. See my attached 2008 Armistice Day mandamus, never answered. Before the Electoral College met, I, for the People, demanded PROOF.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/11/letter-to-floridas-new-attorney-general-asks-that-the-state-constitution-be-honored/

    And in the comments a Post and Fail reader actually realizes that the writer is full of it…

    Philip Rand says:
    Wednesday, January 12, 2011 at 4:28 AM
    Although I am not a lawyer, I can definitely state that “tacit admission” does not work this way.

    You cannot just send someone a letter accusing him of something and if he doesn’t reply, consider that a “tacit admission” (in the legal sense) that the accusations are true.

    “Tacit admission” legally (as opposed to, maybe, politically) only works in a court case between plaintiff and defendant, meaning that if plaintiff alleges X and defendant does not deny such allegation, X is presumed to be admitted as true, thus a “tacit admission”.

    Outside of the plaintiff/defendant relation, such tacit admissions do not constitute proof in the legal sense.

    That Soetoro tacitly admitted his ineligibility in a political sense, that is another matter. But the article is talking about court-level proof and that’s where it is in error.
    ——————–
    Mrs. Rondeau replies: Mr. Connerate did take the matter to court.

  60. avatar
    Black Lion January 12, 2011 at 12:11 pm #

    And it seems like the Post and Fail is on a roll today with attacking the President…

    “When History details the Obama Presidency, how will it be written? If it’s written by Liberals, they may refer to him as the Great Hope of our time. If it is written by a Conservative, they may be nice and just say he was a man with no experience. However, if History really looks at all the facts, they may wonder why the People accepted this man at all.

    The facts about Obama have been hidden, sealed and erased, not only by Obama himself but by the media, Democrats and Republicans. If this and other articles survive the corruption of Obama and his followers, History may paint a different picture of the current Resident in Chief.

    Fact:

    No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

    Fact:

    A “natural born” citizen is any person born of US citizen parents (that’s two) in the U. S. mainland (includes Alaska and Hawaii) – think Ronald Reagan — in this case, there is no foreign entanglement via parentage AND there is no foreign entanglement via birthplace.

    Fact:

    Obama is not a “natural born” citizen because his father was a Kenyan national and a British subject, as was Obama, “at birth.” The Obama Campaign describes Barack Obama Sr. as, “a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.s children.”

    Fact:

    All U. S. military personal and every other American under oath to protect and defend the U. S. Constitution will be duty bound to remove the fraudulent usurper. This situation is REGARDLESS of votes, electors, media blackouts, high profile embarrassments, state court decisions, supreme court actions or inaction, birth certificates real or forged, or any other documents — Obama can NOT LEGALLY BE The US President.

    No documentation is required. Everyone should understand and KNOW the answer to the question of what country is the country of which Obama was a natural born citizen. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Barry Obama, Barry Soetoro, or Barack Hussein Obama II, to be a natural born United States citizen. Obama can NOT POSSIBLY be a “natural born citizen” of the U. S. because his father, Barack Hussein Obama Senior, was a subject of Great Britain and a citizen of Kenya.

    Fact:

    Obama’s first act as President, Executive Order 13489 banning release of any of his records.

    …………………………………………………

    Since the election of Obama, he has done more to divide this Country then he has to bring it closer. We are not just divided by Democrats and Republicans, we are considered a racist if we disagree with him or his policies. After the Ft. Hood shooting we were told not to jump to conclusions because the shooter was praising Allah, yet after the recent Tucson shooting, members of the Left and the media were blaming everyone from the Tea Party and Sarah Palin to Rush Limbaugh. He continued to divide us on the Ground Zero Mosque, the Arizona Immigration Issue, banning offshore drilling, ramming Obamacare down the throats of Americans and appointing all of his Socialist/Marxist Czars.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/11/are-there-traitors-among-us/

  61. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 12, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    Oh, and before you Obots work yourselves into a hysterical frenzy about Sarah Palin being anti-Semitic, here is Alan Dershowitz, who is a famous lawyer and Jewish about what Sarah said:

    “The term “blood libel” hastaken on a broad metaphorical meaning in public discourse. Although itshistorical origins were in theologically based false accusations against
    the Jews and the Jewish People,its current usage is far broader. I
    myself have used it to describe false accusations against the State of
    Israel by the Goldstone Report. There is nothing improper and certainly
    nothing anti-Semitic in Sarah Palin using the term to characterize what
    she reasonably believes are false accusations that her words or images
    may have caused a mentally disturbed individual to kill and maim. The
    fact that two of the victims are Jewish is utterly irrelevant to the
    propriety of using this widely used term.”

    So There!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  62. avatar
    obsolete January 12, 2011 at 5:51 pm #

    Everybody is doing a good job lately of ignoring fake Squeeky (the political assassin advocate).
    In case anyone thinks they may be missing something, here is a brand new summary of her web site posts to save you the trip over there:

    1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

  63. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 12, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    obsolete: Everybody is doing a good job lately of ignoring fake Squeeky (the political assassin advocate).
    In case anyone thinks they may be missing something, here is a brand new summary of her web site posts to save you the trip over there:1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

    I agree. I know it’s difficult to refrain from answering her inane nonsense, but a little self-control is all one needs

  64. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 12, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    Oh, I didn’t know I was being “ignored.” There is such a common lack of intelligent responses from here, that the silence and “nothing” seemed to blend together. But did you read this one??? I thought it was really good. Did you like it???

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/paul-krugman-joins-westboro-baptist-church/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  65. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 12, 2011 at 8:02 pm #

    Why are birthers so clueless?

  66. avatar
    Majority Will January 12, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Why are birthers so clueless?

    Some choose to be ignorant. The rest just come by it naturally. Bigotry and hatred drives them all.

  67. avatar
    Arthur January 12, 2011 at 9:15 pm #

    Thank you Obsolete for encouraging posters to refrain from responding to the the thing from Texas. Let Xanthippe hector male beasts in some other part of the internet and leave us in peace.

  68. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 12, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    Your boss, Obama, just told all of you to behave yourselves and start talking better to people!!! But I won’t bother you until I finish writing this deeply philosophical thingy I am working on. And its OK if you don’t answer me, because I know how hard it is for you to address my really good arguments.

    So There!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  69. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 12, 2011 at 9:35 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Why are birthers so clueless?

    Because any friend they would call for a clue is equally clueless?

  70. avatar
    obsolete January 13, 2011 at 12:28 am #

    Fake Squeeky the political assassin advocate is getting desperate, and is on her way out here.
    I did venture over and read her new article. Here is a summary so you don’t have to visit her trash can of a blog:

    1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- Plus, Sarah Palin is a victim just like MEEEE!
    5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

  71. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 13, 2011 at 12:51 am #

    obsolete: Fake Squeeky the political assassin advocate is getting desperate, and is on her way out here.
    I did venture over and read her new article. Here is a summary so you don’t have to visit her trash can of a blog:1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- Plus, Sarah Palin is a victim just like MEEEE!
    5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

    Thanx for nothing, obsolete. 🙂 . Make sure you wash your computer out to get all the crap out of it. I suggest you do that after every time you go there.

  72. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 13, 2011 at 12:56 am #

    If you don’t do that, the stench will eventually overpower you and send you into a coma

  73. avatar
    Daniel January 13, 2011 at 1:50 am #

    or into a birther blog

  74. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 9:06 am #

    obsolete: Fake Squeeky the political assassin advocate is getting desperate, and is on her way out here.I did venture over and read her new article. Here is a summary so you don’t have to visit her trash can of a blog:1- Squeeky approves of political violence.2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!5- Plus, Sarah Palin is a victim just like MEEEE!5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

    Obsolete, nice wrap up…As usual it was an article about nothing relevant or germane to any issue other than her innane thoughts and clueless views of life in general…..

  75. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 9:17 am #

    The ConWeb Shrugged

    WorldNetDaily, Newsmax,and the Media Research Center want you to know that Marx and Hitler were on Jared Loughner’s reading list — but not that Ayn Rand is too. Plus: More ConWeb falsehoods, silliness and crassness about the Arizona shooting.
    By Terry Krepel
    Posted 1/13/2011
    ——————————————————————————–

    When news came that an assailant opened fire on an event being held by Democratic Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords outside a grocery store in Tuscon, critically wounding the congresswoman and killing six others, the ConWeb sprung into action to figure out ways to prove the alleged shooter — identified at Jared Loughner — not only was not conservative but was somehow liberal.

    One method of doing so quickly stuck out: a list of books Loughner had posted to his YouTube profile.

    WorldNetDaily’s Aaron Klein was the first to pounce, declaring in a Jan. 8 article that “‘The Communist Manifesto’ and Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’ were among the favorite reading materials of Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in today’s fatal shooting that reportedly left six dead and gravely injured a U.S. congresswoman.” He followed up the next day in “news analysis” by asking: “Are the news media deliberately disguising the reported liberal politics of Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in yesterday’s fatal shooting that left six dead and gravely injured a U.S. congresswoman?” As evidence, Klein highlighted “the men actually listed by Loughner as among his favorite authors, Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler,” linking to his article of the previous day.

    WND colleague Drew Zahn, in a Jan. 10 article, reinforced the story by stating that “Loughner also listed on his YouTube channel among his favorite books Karl Marx’s ‘The Communist Manifesto’ and Adolf Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf,’ casting further doubt on the notion that he was an angered tea-party type.”

    Much the same thing was happening over at Newsmax. A Jan. 9 article complained that “some Democrats and major media have moved to pin the blame for her attack on the tea party movement and conservatives like Sarah Palin, despite the fact that the shooter was both deranged and fascinated by leftwing politics.” Newsmax went on to state that “Loughner had identified among his favorite books ‘The Communist Manifesto’ by Karl Marx, Adolf Hitler’s ‘Mein Kampf’ and the fiction classic ‘One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest’ — hardly the reading list of a Palin supporter.”

    David Patten and Kathleen Walter wrote in a Jan. 10 article that “Loughner’s bizarre rants mention Karl Marx’s Communist Manifesto and Hitler’s Mein Kampf, but do not mention Palin, Fox News, the Tea Party, or other high profile conservatives such as host Glenn Beck or Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C.” Another Jan. 10 article by Patten, inveighing against the “backlash mounted against media outlets who blamed the shooting on inflammatory right-wing rhetoric,” similarly stated that “His online rants appeared to reflect a muddled, possibly left-wing viewpoint that embrace anarchy. Intellectually, his influences appeared to range from Karl Marx to Hitler’s Mein Kampf.”

    Even the Media Research Center bought in. During a Jan. 10 interview highlighted in the Patten-Walter Newsmax article, MRC chief Brent Bozell said that Loughner “isn’t even a conservative. We now know he’s some kind of anarchist who liked the Communist Manifesto.” And in his Jan. 12 CNSNews.com column, editor-in-chief Terry Jeffrey declared that Loughner had “admiration for the writings of Marx and Hitler.”

    For all this ConWeb name-checking of Marx and Hitler, you would never know — and they have no interest in telling you — that there are 19 other books on Loughner’s list, some of which dispel the notion that he was some sort of communist Nazi.

    Among them: Ayn Rand’s anti-communist novel “We The Living.” Also present were anti-totalitarian tomes like George Orwell’s “Animal Farm” and Ray Bradbury’s “Farenheit 451.”

    Yet the ConWeb never claimed that Loughner had “admiration” for Ayn Rand, despite the fact that the presence “We The Living” and the other anti-totalitarian books that would seem to directly contradict the notion that Loughner was in any sort of thrall to Marx and/or Hitler.

    Of course, as Salon.com’s Laura Miller pointed out, the presence of such contradictory books — not to mention two books by the Greek philosopher Plato, “Republic” and “Meno” — on Loughner’s reading list suggest that perhaps he’s just a crazy person and people shouldn’t be trying to divine significance where there is none:

    But Loughner is almost certainly insane and, like the countless other mentally disturbed people who send similar ravings to media outlets around the world, his ideas would have been ignored as incoherent and irrelevant if he hadn’t fired a gun into a crowd of people Saturday. The fact that he did fire that gun, however, doesn’t make his delusions suddenly meaningful. It doesn’t make his list of favorite books significant. Crazy people who make headlines and change history are still crazy.

    By studying Loughner’s book list for clues to the political leanings that somehow “drove” him to commit murder, commentators are behaving a lot like crazy people themselves.
    The ConWeb simply shrugged off the truth. Wait, didn’t Rand write a book about shrugging off something?

    * * *

    The myth that Loughner’s reading list consisted only of Marx and Hitler is only the most widespread of the falsehoods and misinformation the ConWeb has spread about the Arizona shooting. Unsurprisingly, WorldNetDaily led the way.

    Aaron Klein seems to have decided that Bill Ayers must be worked into this story somehow, so a Jan. 10 article by Klein begins:

    Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in Saturday’s Arizona shooting, attended a high school that is part of a network in which teachers are trained and provided resources by a liberal group founded by Weatherman terrorist Bill Ayers and funded by President Obama, WND has learned.

    The group, Small Schools Workshop, has been led by a former top communist activist who is an associate of Ayers.
    What is missing from Klein’s article is any evidence that the curriculum at the high school Loughner attended is “communist,” related to ’60s radicalism, or even “liberal” — or any examples at all of what the school’s curriculum actually contains. This despite the fact that the headline of Klein’s article reads, “Bill Ayers, communist provided Arizona shooter’s curriculum?”

    Without any facts to back up his implication that Ayers taught Loughner how to be a terrorist — and because Klein and his research assistant Brenda J. Elliott, who also helped Klein with his factually dubious smear book on President Obama, couldn’t be bothered to find out what actually is being taught — this is yet another smear piece rehashing the same tired claims about how Ayers is a unrepentant terrorist and, of course, a close personal friend of President Obama.

    Corsi joined in the misleading fun with a Jan. 9 article obsessing over supposed links between the YouTube channels of Giffords and Loughner. At one point, Corsi stated that “Gifford subscribed to Loughner’s website since Oct. 25, 2010” — a poorly worded claim made more absurd by Corsi’s statement in the previous paragraph that Loughner created his YouTube channel the same day he awkwardly suggests that Giffords subscribed to it.

    Corsi also falsely asserted that “it is now known that Loughner worked for Gifford’s election campaign in 2007” — something nobody else has ever claimed. But the only evidence he offered to that effect was noting that “in Loughner’s home was found a form letter from Giffords’ office, thanking him for attending a 2007 event.” That is not the same thing as having “worked for Gifford’s election campaign.”

    Two days later, Corsi seemed to have been trying to correct the damage; in a article headlined “Sorting fact from fiction about Jared Loughner,” Corsi declared that “So far, no evidence has established that Loughner ever served as a formal volunteer to a Giffords’ election campaign, or that Giffords knew Loughner well, even though she wrote him what appears to have been a typical congressional letter to a constituent.” Of course, Corsi made no mention of his own false claim to the contrary.

    If that bit of incompetence wasn’t enough, Corsi then tried to present himself as an expert on punk rock, asserting in a Jan. 10 article that Loughner “may have been inspired by the radical leftist punk-rock band Anti-Flag, one of his favorite bands.”

    Essentially, all Corsi did for his article is read a tweet by someone who claimed Anti-Flag was one of Loughner’s favorite bands, found a music lyrics website (he even linked to it) and copied-and-pasted from selected songs. That, apparently, is Corsi’s idea of journalism.

    Meanwhile, the MRC’s Brent Bozell was in quite the falsehood-peddling mood during a Jan. 10 interview with Newsmax (referenced above). “Note how quickly the New York Times came out with an editorial calling for the Fairness Doctrine as a result of this,” Bozell said.

    But that didn’t happen; in fact, a search of the Times’ website indicates no mention of “fairness doctrine” anywhere in the Times — not just not on the editorial page, but anywhere in the paper — in the 30 days before Bozell’s interview. The closest a Times editorial published between the shooting and Bozell’s interview came to discussing speech issues regarding the shooting is a Jan. 10 editorial that called for “quieting the voices of intolerance,” which is not even remotely the same thing as “calling for the Fairness Doctrine.”

    Bozell also asserted that “The Daily Kos whackjob website has got targets over faces that they don’t like.” Not true either — in fact, Daily Kos has issued no graphics containing a bulls-eye image regarding Giffords.

    But for pure crassness, you can’t beat WND’s attempt to cash in on the massacre. Putting money before any principles it claims to have, WND inserted a promotional ad into a Jan. 10 WND article: “Who really inspired Jared Lee Loughner? Read Richard Wurmbrand’s Marx & Satan to find out.” The link goes to the page for the book at the WND online store. (No mention of Ayn Rand, of course.)

    WND continued the cravenness with an article-length plug for a book (which, of course, it sells) arguing “the biblical case for armed self-defense,” calling it the “common-sense, tried-and-true biblical and constitutional prescription” to “a man-made disaster like the Arizona massacre.”

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2011/azshooting.html

  76. avatar
    ellid January 13, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    Alan Dershowitz has been a joke for years. They don’t even take him seriously at Harvard any more, and haven’t for a long, long time. The star at the Law School these days is Harvey Silverglate, who’s had the good sense to refrain from making a fool of himself opening a bad deli or representing the likes of Claus von Bulow.

  77. avatar
    Scientist January 13, 2011 at 9:59 am #

    Black Lion: He followed up the next day in “news analysis” by asking: “Are the news media deliberately disguising the reported liberal politics of Jared Lee Loughner, the suspected gunman in yesterday’s fatal shooting that left six dead and gravely injured a U.S. congresswoman?” As evidence, Klein highlighted “the men actually listed by Loughner as among his favorite authors, Karl Marx and Adolf Hitler,” linking to his article of the previous day.

    By what stretch of the imagination are either Hitler or Marx liberals?

  78. avatar
    Whatever4 January 13, 2011 at 10:08 am #

    Blast from the past — remember the Kenyan Minister of Lands, James Orengo? Did anyone ever contact him about what he said in the Kenyan Parliament? http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/04/kenyan-official-says-american-president-born-in-kenya/

  79. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 13, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    I recall someone posting a list of 30-40 quotes of the definition of natural born citizen from civics texts. If there is anyone who remembers where this is and can give me a link, I’d appreciate it.

  80. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 10:32 am #

    ellid: Alan Dershowitz has been a joke for years.They don’t even take him seriously at Harvard any more, and haven’t for a long, long time.The star at the Law School these days is Harvey Silverglate, who’s had the good sense to refrain from making a fool of himself opening a bad deli or representing the likes of Claus von Bulow.

    Oh how typical of you “fair-minded Obots!!! Tee Hee! First, you hop on whatever lie it is that confirms your bias, then when somebody like little old me points out your ILLOGIC, you say “You’re a nobody, Squeeky and a nut, and what do you know anyway???”, then I find somebody with good credentials who reasons like me, and then you Obots smear them with some stupid statement along the lines of “Oh, that person is stupid too!!!’

    All this, while condemning Birthers for allegedly doing the same thing!!! OH, this is why I laugh at you Obots the way you laugh at us. For the life of me, I can’t find any real difference between you and what you say about us. Soooo, now i guess the Obot LEMMING LINE will be, Sarah Palin is anti-Semitic and if any Jew says she isn’t then they are stupid and their opinion doesn’t count!!!

    You OBOTS are soooo DULL-THINKING, that one of you, Black Lion, who I actually like, used a ADL (Which means Anti Defamation League) quote that confirmed what Dershowitz said to try to dispute Dershowitz!!!

    Here:

    “It was inappropriate at the outset to blame Sarah Palin and others for causing this tragedy or for being an accessory to murder. Palin has every right to defend herself against these kinds of attacks, and we agree with her that the best tradition in America is one of finding common ground despite our differences.

    Still, we wish that Palin had not invoked the phrase “blood-libel” in reference to the actions of journalists and pundits in placing blame for the shooting in Tucson on others. While the term “blood-libel” has become part of the English parlance to refer to someone being falsely accused, we wish that Palin had used another phrase, instead of one so fraught with pain in Jewish history.”

    This statement was portrayed as CONDEMNATION of Palin by one of the smarter Obots.

    Let me highlight it for you so you can IGNORE it easier:

    1. It was inappropriate at the outset to blame Sarah Palin and others for causing this tragedy or for being an accessory to murder. Palin has every right to defend herself against these kinds of attacks. . .

    2. While the term “blood-libel” has become part of the English parlance to refer to someone being falsely accused. . .

    Now, all you RATIONAL and OPEN-MINDED Obots can get busy either flatly IGNORING this, or you can make up some stupid rationalization why the ADL is anti-Semitic!!! That way, you can keep on believing whatever you want to while ignoring reality and prissing around patting yourselves on the back for your superior reasoning skills!!!

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  81. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 10:34 am #

    More nonsense from the cesspool known as “Dr Kate”…

    “The clueless and disrespectful Obamas use the rawness of the Arizona shooting tragedy–of death and maiming unexplained —to switch the focus to the campaign for 2012. What a crass way to interfere with the honoring of slain and wounded people, like the way he has treated every medal of honor winner and dead soldier since he seized the White House. He has absolutely no respect for Americans, for America, or for everyday human decency. This event would have been more respectful and meaningful without the usurpation of the Obamas.”

    http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/without-obama-we-thrive/

    And in the comments the usual tinfoil wearing idiots make an appearance…

    Mary
    January 13, 2011 at 1:37 am
    Dr. Kate
    The Tucson affair, from beginning to end, is a setup. The CIA, which noworks for the NWO, not the USA, has crazies like the TucsOn shooter In every oorner of America waiting to create a major diversion tO help obama.

    1. The killing took place in AZ, which obama has been steadily dIscrediting and whose sOverignty he wants to destroy.

    2. The incident “just happened” to occur within the jurisdiction of an obamacrat sheriff.

    3. The sheriff’s 100% undocumented accusations were the prearranged signal for the obama media to jump on the firt and secon amendments. ALL OF THE LEFT’S RANT OCCURED SO QUICKLY AFTER THE MURDERS THAT IT WAS OBVIOUSLY SCRIPTED, THE PLAYBOOK FOR A STAGED EVENT.

    4. obama shows up in Tucson to make a me-I, I-me speech, trying tO salvage his popularity, exploiting a crisis..

    5. The incident “just happened” to occur almost at the sam time that the new Congress was sworn in: discredit them before they can say “Repeal obama care,” wOrk on the economy, and in every way show up obama.

    6. If there’s no crisis to exploit, manufacture one.

    7. This whole TucsOn business has the stench of Alinsky –and brimstone.

    Add the murdered judge to Bill Gwatney, BerniepMac, StePhanie Tubbs Jones, Donald Young….

    Quantum Leap
    January 13, 2011 at 3:44 am
    He is speaking code for “No ome must ever know what really happened and no one can really ever find out”

    hmmmm…peculiar.

    ?For the truth is that none of us can know exactly what triggered this vicious attack. None of us can know with any certainty what might have stopped those shots from being fired, or what thoughts lurked in the inner recesses of a violent man’s mind. So yes, we must examine all the facts behind this tragedy. We cannot and will not be passive in the face of such violence. We should be willing to challenge old assumptions in order to lessen the prospects of violence in the future.”

    This whole event is very political and it’s he and his gang that makes it so. why aren’t they speaking from the WH like everyone else does?
    What does the sheriff know that he’s covering up? Does the sherriff know the F B I may have been setting the kid up?
    So many questions and they are not about a kids deranged mind.

    FBI INSISTED Judge John Roll attend the event.

  82. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    Palin disables comments on her video about open discourse
    by Jed Lewison
    Wed Jan 12, 2011 at 02:09:42 PM PST

    So in her web video supposedly designed to defend the open discussion of ideas no matter how objectionable they might be…Sarah Palin disabled public comments on the video she posted on Vimeo

    Note that Palin released her ‘heartfelt’ video at exactly 4:00AM Alaska time…just the right moment to take the news cycle by storm, and make today be about her. Also too, and perhaps more telling, Palin didn’t even have the courage to take questions from Fox about her message. Instead, she hid behind a TelePrompter, secure in the knowledge that she would not have to respond to a single question about her speech. Now that’s political courage, eh?

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/12/935822/-Palin-disables-comments-on-her-video-about-open-discourse

    Jewish groups condemn Palin’s use of term ‘blood libel’

    Condemnations by Jewish organization, over Sarah Palin’s self-serving use of the term “blood libel” to defend herself after the criticism she has received in the wake of the assassination attempt of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, are mounting:

    Jewish Funds for Justice:
    We are deeply disturbed by Fox News commentator Sarah Palin’s decision to characterize as a “blood libel” the criticism directed at her following the terrorist attack in Tucson. The term “blood libel” is not a synonym for “false accusation.” It refers to a specific falsehood perpetuated by Christians about Jews for centuries, a falsehood that motivated a good deal of anti-Jewish violence and discrimination. Unless someone has been accusing Ms. Palin of killing Christian babies and making matzoh from their blood, her use of the term is totally out-of-line. […]

    Ms. Palin clearly took some time to reflect before putting out her statement today. Despite that time, her primary conclusion was that she is the victim and Rep. Giffords is the perpetrator. As a powerful rhetorical advocate for personal responsibility, Ms. Palin has failed to live up to her own standards with this statement.

    National Jewish Democratic Council
    Instead of dialing down the rhetoric at this difficult moment, Sarah Palin chose to accuse others trying to sort out the meaning of this tragedy of somehow engaging in a “blood libel” against her and others. This is of course a particularly heinous term for American Jews, given that the repeated fiction of blood libels are directly responsible for the murder of so many Jews across centuries — and given that blood libels are so directly intertwined with deeply ingrained anti-Semitism around the globe, even today.

    J Street:
    The country’s attention is rightfully focused on the memorial service for the victims of Saturday’s shooting. Our prayers continue to be with those who are still fighting to recover and the families of the victims. The last thing the country needs now is for the rhetoric in the wake of this tragedy to return to where it was before.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/1/12/935719/-Jewish-groups-condemn-Palins-use-of-term-blood-libel

  83. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 10:53 am #

    The article referenced above by Squeekers is below….

    Breaking: ADL condemns Sarah Palin’s “blood libel”
    By Greg Sargent

    Sarah Palin’s charge that her critics are guilty of “blood libel,” while designed to put her in the center of the conversation on her own terms and to retake the initiative after days of negative press, has generated some surprising pushback from voices who are generally sympathetic to her current media plight.

    Now the Anti-Defamation League is condemning her, which could take the criticism to a whole new level. The ADL sends over a statement from Abraham Foxman:

    It is unfortunate that the tragedy in Tucson continues to stimulate a political blame game. Rather than step back and reflect on the lessons to be learned from this tragedy, both parties have reverted to political partisanship and finger-pointing at a time when the American people are looking for leadership, not more vitriol. In response to this tragedy we need to rise above partisanship, incivility, heated rhetoric, and the business-as-usual approaches that are corroding our political system and tainting the atmosphere in Washington and across the country.

    It was inappropriate at the outset to blame Sarah Palin and others for causing this tragedy or for being an accessory to murder. Palin has every right to defend herself against these kinds of attacks, and we agree with her that the best tradition in America is one of finding common ground despite our differences.

    Still, we wish that Palin had not invoked the phrase “blood-libel” in reference to the actions of journalists and pundits in placing blame for the shooting in Tucson on others. While the term “blood-libel” has become part of the English parlance to refer to someone being falsely accused, we wish that Palin had used another phrase, instead of one so fraught with pain in Jewish history.

    That’s not quite as strong as it might have been. It stops short of demanding that she retract the phrase or apologize for it, as the left-leaning group J-Street did this morning. But condemnation from the ADL could be enough to throw Palin back on the defensive.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/breaking_adl_condemns_sarah_pa.html

  84. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 11:03 am #

    Should any of you wish to CONDEMN me, then I would sure love it if you would do it like the ADL CONDEMNED Sarah Palin, because anybody who can read can see this is NOT a condemnation, unless you are somebody looking to jump to unwarranted conclusions.

    OH, but whoever back pedals, “that’s not quite as strong as it might have been” OH REALLY???

    Let me help those COMPREHENSION CHALLENGED Obots:

    1. Sarah Palin was FALSELY ACCUSED!
    2. Sarah Palin has a right to defend herself.
    3. The term “blood libel” is commonly used to describe being falsely accused.
    4. We wish it wasn’t.

    See, that isn’t hard to understand.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  85. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 13, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    Anyone who is stupid enough to claim blood libel as being a neutral term is obviously an idiot. The term has been used exclusively against religious minorities, mainly the jews. Here’s a bit of modern history courtesy of our friends at wiki:

    Modern1840 Damascus affair: In February, at Damascus, a Catholic monk named Father Thomas and his servant were murdered. The accusation of ritual murder was brought against members of the Jewish community of Damascus
    1840 Rhodes blood libel: The Jews of Rhodes, during the Ottoman Empire, were accused of murdering a Greek Christian boy. The libel was supported by the local governor and the European consuls posted to Rhodes. Several Jews were arrested and tortured, and the entire Jewish quarter was blockaded for twelve days. An investigation carried out by the central Ottoman government found the Jews to be innocent.
    In March 1879, ten Jewish men from a mountain village were brought to Kutaisi, Georgia to stand trial for the alleged kidnapping and murder of a Christian girl. The case attracted a great deal of attention in Russia (of which Georgia was then a part): “While periodicals as diverse in tendency as Herald of Europe and Saint Petersburg Notices expressed their amazement that medieval prejudice should have found a place in the modern judiciary of a civilized state, New Times hinted darkly of strange Jewish sects with unknown practices.”[26] The trial ended in acquittal, and the orientalist Daniel Chwolson published a refutation of the blood libel.
    1882 Tiszaeszlár blood libel: The Jews of the village Tiszaeszlár, Hungary were accused with the ritual murder of a fourteen-year-old Christian girl, Eszter Solymosi. The case was one of the main causes of the rise of antisemitism in the country. The accused persons were eventually acquitted.
    In the 1899 Hilsner Affair, Leopold Hilsner, a Jewish vagabond, was accused of murdering a nineteen-year-old Christian woman, Anežka Hrůzová, with a slash to the throat. Despite the absurdity of the charge and the relatively progressive nature of society in Austria-Hungary, Hilsner was convicted and sentenced to death. He was later convicted of an additional unsolved murder, also involving a Christian woman. In 1901, the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment. Tomáš Masaryk, a prominent Austro-Czech philosophy professor and future president of Czechoslovakia, spearheaded Hilsner’s defense. He was later blamed by Czech media because of this. In March 1918, Hilsner was pardoned by Austrian emperor Charles I. He was never exonerated, and the true guilty parties were never found.
    The 1903 Kishinev pogrom, an anti-Jewish revolt, started when an anti-Semitic newspaper wrote that a Christian Russian boy, Mikhail Rybachenko, was found murdered in the town of Dubossary, alleging that the Jews killed him in order to use the blood in preparation of matzo. Around 49 Jews were killed and hundreds were wounded, with over 700 houses being looted and destroyed.
    In the 1910 Shiraz blood libel, the Jews of Shiraz, Iran, were falsely accused of murdering a Muslim girl. The entire Jewish quarter was pillaged; the pogrom left 12 Jews dead and about 50 injured.

    Antisemitic flier in Kiev, 1910: “Christians, take care of your children!!! It will be Jewish Passover on March 17.”In Kiev, a Jewish factory manager, Menahem Mendel Beilis, was accused of murdering a Christian child and using his blood in matzos. He was acquitted by an all-Christian jury after a sensational trial in 1913.
    In 1928, the Jews of Massena, New York, were falsely accused of kidnapping and killing a Christian girl in the Massena blood libel.
    The 1946 Kielce pogrom against Holocaust survivors in Poland was sparked by an accusation of blood libel.
    King Faisal of Saudi Arabia (r. 1964–1975) made accusations against Parisian Jews that took the nature of a blood libel.[27]
    The Matzah Of Zion was written by the Syrian Defense Minister, Mustafa Tlass in 1986. The book concentrates on two issues: renewed ritual murder accusations against the Jews in the Damascus affair of 1840, and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.[28] The book was cited at a United Nations conference in 1991 by a Syrian delegate.
    ContemporaryFurther information: Antisemitism in the Arab world, History of the Jews in Russia and the Soviet Union, and Islam and antisemitism
    On October 21, 2002, the London-based Arabic paper Al-Hayat reported that the book The Matzah of Zion was undergoing its eighth reprint and was being translated into English, French and Italian.
    In 2003 a private Syrian film company created a 29-part television series Ash-Shatat (“The Diaspora”). This series originally aired in Lebanon in late 2003 and was broadcast by Al-Manar, a satellite television network owned by Hezbollah. This TV series, based on the antisemitic forgery The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, shows the Jewish people as engaging in a conspiracy to rule the world, and presents Jews as people who murder Christian children, drain their blood and use this blood to bake matzah.
    In early January 2005, some 20 members of the Russian State Duma publicly made a blood libel against the Jewish people. They approached the Prosecutor General’s Office and demanded that Russia “ban all Jewish organizations.” They accused all Jewish groups of being extremists and of being “anti-Christian and inhumane, which practices extend even to ritual murders.”
    Alluding to previous antisemitic Russian court decrees that accused the Jews of ritual murder, they wrote that “Many facts of such religious extremism were proven in courts.” The accusation included traditional antisemitic canards, such as “the whole democratic world today is under the financial and political control of international Jewry. And we do not want our Russia to be among such unfree countries”.
    This demand was published as an open letter to the prosecutor general, in Rus Pravoslavnaya (Russian: усь православная, “Orthodox Russia”), a national-conservative newspaper. This group consisted of members of the ultra-nationalist Liberal Democrats, the Communist faction, and the nationalist Motherland party, with some 500 supporters. Тhe mentioned document is known as “The Letter of Five Hundred” (“Письмо пятисот”).[29][30] Their supporters included editors of nationalist newspapers as well as journalists. By the end of the month this group had received stiff criticism, and retracted its demand.
    At the end of April 2005, five boys, ages 9 to 12, in Krasnoyarsk (Russia) disappeared. In May 2005, their burnt bodies were found in the city sewage. The crime was not disclosed, and in August 2007 the investigation was extended until November 18, 2007.[31] Some Russian nationalist groups claimed that the children were murdered by a Jewish sect with a ritual purpose.[32][33] Nationalist M. Nazarov, one of the authors of “The Letter of Five Hundred” alleges “the existence of a ‘Hasidic sect’, whose members kill children before Passover to collect their blood,” using the Beilis case mentioned above as evidence. M.Nazarov also alleges that “the ritual murder requires throwing the body away rather than its concealing”. “The Union of the Russian People” demanded officials thoroughly investigate the Jews, not stopping at the search in synagogues, Matzah bakeries and their offices. During a speech in 2007, Raed Salah, the leader of the northern branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel, accused Jews of using children’s blood to bake bread. “We have never allowed ourselves to knead [the dough for] the bread that breaks the fast in the holy month of Ramadan with children’s blood,” he said. “Whoever wants a more thorough explanation, let him ask what used to happen to some children in Europe, whose blood was mixed in with the dough of the [Jewish] holy bread.”

    What do all these have in common?

  86. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    What do all these have in common?

    Uh, nothing to do with today???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  87. avatar
    Daniel January 13, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    SqueekyFromm: Should any of you wish to CONDEMN me, then I would sure love it if you would do it like the ADL CONDEMNED Sarah Palin, because anybody who can read can see this is NOT a condemnation,

    The ADL statement was a condemnation couched in political language. In ordinary people’s language, it would be translated as “Sarah Palin…. you’re an idiot.”

    Fortunately, on this forum, we don’t need to use the niceties of political language. We can say it succinctly and accurately, as in, “Squeeky… you’re an idiot,”

  88. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    Daniel:

    Nope. Sorry.That is just your OPINION, and NOT supported by the words themselves. Try my translation above for the COMPREHENSION CHALLENGED. Plus, here is something else you Obots can IGNORE and NOT READ so that you won’t have to re-route any of those lazy little axons. (Things in your brain)

    http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/256955/term-blood-libel-more-common-you-might-think

    by Jim Geragty

    The use of the term “blood libel” in non-Jewish contexts is out of bounds, eh?

    Andrew Sullivan, October 10, 2008:

    A couple of obvious thoughts. Paladino speaks of “perverts who target our children and seek to destroy their lives.” This is the gay equivalent of the medieval (and Islamist) blood-libel against Jews.

    Ann Coulter’s column, October 30, 2008:

    His expert pontificator on race was The Washington Post’s Eugene Robinson, who said the Pittsburgh hoax was “the blood libel against black men concerning the defilement of the flower of Caucasian womanhood. It’s been with us for hundreds of years and, apparently, is still with us.”

    From the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, September 30, 2009:

    Almost immediately following the aftermath of the shooting, the Military Religious Freedom Foundation was the unlikely voice that called for the safeguard of Muslims in the armed forces.

    Within hours of the news breaking, MRFF founder and president Mikey Weinstein called upon President Barack Obama to “immediately issue a statement as Commander-in-Chief making it clear that there would be a zero-tolerance policy against any member of the U.S. military inflicting harassments, retribution or reprisal against an Islamic member of the U.S. military.” . . .

    He criticized former Alaska Governor and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin for saying that she was “all for” profiling against Muslims.

    “We’re not painting all Jews as thieves for Madoff’s economic crimes,” said Weinstein, comparing Palin’s comments to a “blood libel.”

    During the recount in 2000:

    Florida Democrat Peter Deutsch last night on Crossfire:

    Let me just talk a little bit about the whole, I guess, spin from the Republicans about — which has been to me the absolute most — the worst statements I have ever heard probably in my life about anything. I mean, almost a blood libel by the Republicans towards Al Gore, saying that he was trying to stop men and women in uniform that are serving this country from voting. That is the most absurd thing and absolutely has no basis in fact at all.

    In the grand scheme of things, the idea that Palin used a phrase associated with one particular, egregious, and historically recurring false accusation to rebut a modern false accusation seems like little reason for outrage. For perspective on what really is worth outrage, the services for 9-year-old victim Christina Taylor Green are tomorrow.

    UPDATE: Some more examples, from my side of the aisle:

    Jed Babbin, September 8, 2004:

    When, in April 1971, John Kerry testified to a Senate committee that “. . . war crimes committed in Southeast Asia [were] not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command,” he said that the average American soldier who fought in Vietnam was a war criminal. Kerry’s statement was false, a blood libel that hangs in the air to this day.

    Michael Barone, November 15, 2004:

    And the argument against Michael Dukakis, which he never effectively countered because there is no effective counter, is that giving furlough to people who have life without parole is a position that Dukakis defended over 11 years as governor of Massachusetts or governor candidate, is a crazy law, and he supported it over 11 years. You don’t have to be a racist to want a murderer, whatever his race, to stay in jail and not be allowed outside on the weekend. To say that the American people were racist and they just want black people in, is blood libel on the American people.

    John Hood, September 23, 2003: “A Blood Libel’ Against the News & Observer.”

    ANOTHER UPDATE: Either Joel Roberts or Andrew Cohen of CBS News (both names are listed), February 9, 2005:

    Ward Churchill still doesn’t get it. Even though he has tried to clarify and backtrack upon the worst of his intemperate remarks about the victims of the terror attacks on America, he persists in hanging a blood libel on thousands of victims and, by clear implication, you and me.

    Andrew Cohen of CBS News, May 7, 2008:

    So-called “judicial activism” occurs, in other words, when it’s your side that lost the case and it is nothing short of a blood libel against judges to accuse them of operating by fiat.

    Alex Beam in the Boston Globe, January 14, 2005, discussing the accusation that an official had used the “n-word” in meetings overseas:

    My two anonymous sources were making charges that amounted to blood libel’ against former colleagues; that raised the bar for ethical publication.

    John Derbyshire, April 28, 2008: “A Blood Libel on Our Civilization.”

    AP, July 28, 2008:

    Just before Obama spoke, Newsday editor Les Payne had called “blood libel” the argument that African-American journalists could not objectively cover Obama’s candidacy.

    ANOTHER UPDATE: Frank Rich, New York Times columnist, October 15, 2006:

    The moment Mr. Foley’s e-mails became known, we saw that brand of fearmongering and bigotry at full tilt: Bush administration allies exploited the former Congressman’s predatory history to spread the grotesque canard that homosexuality is a direct path to pedophilia. It’s the kind of blood libel that in another era was spread about Jews.

    ——————————————————-

    So There!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  89. avatar
    Daniel January 13, 2011 at 11:55 am #

    Thank you, Squeeky, for proving my point, so pedantically.

  90. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 12:14 pm #

    Daniel: Thank you, Squeeky, for proving my point, so pedantically.

    Likewise. That Obots just ignore stuff that is inconvenient.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  91. avatar
    Scientist January 13, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says? Who is she? A losing Vice Presidential candidate, no different from John Edwards or Joe Lieberman. Actually, both of them got more electoral votes than Palin did and neither of them quit halfway through the job their constituuents elected them to do.

    Sarah Palin has a right to speak, but the rest of us, especially the media, have a right to ignore her and should avail ourselves of that right.

  92. avatar
    Majority Will January 13, 2011 at 12:45 pm #

    Daniel: Thank you, Squeeky, for proving my point, so pedantically.

    Please ignore the troll.

  93. avatar
    Black Lion January 13, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    Scientist: Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says? Who is she? A losing Vice Presidential candidate, no different from John Edwards or Joe Lieberman. Actually, both of them got more electoral votes than Palin did and neither of them quit halfway through the job their constituuents elected them to do.Sarah Palin has a right to speak, but the rest of us, especially the media, have a right to ignore her and should avail ourselves of that right.

    Scientist, great point….You are so right….

  94. avatar
    Daniel January 13, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    Scientist: Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says?

    The problem with Sarah Palin is not that reasonable people should ignore her, it’s that fools admire her, and would vote for her.

  95. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    Black Lion:
    Scientist, great point….You are so right….

    Translation:

    Bless you, Scientist!!! Squeeky was really tearing me up there!!! I felt just like a carpet over a clothesline, and she was just smacking the dust out of me with a broom. Whew!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  96. avatar
    James M January 13, 2011 at 2:25 pm #

    Scientist: Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says? Who is she? A losing Vice Presidential candidate, no different from John Edwards or Joe Lieberman.Actually, both of them got more electoral votes than Palin did and neither of them quit halfway through the job their constituuents electedthem to do.Sarah Palin has a right to speak, but the rest of us, especially the media, have a right to ignore her and should avail ourselves of that right.

    She reaches a much larger audience than other Vice Presidential also-rans, and she broadcasts a dangerous message. She is regarded by a large and growing movement as a leader of that movement. If this dangerous message is allowed to propagate unchallenged, we run the risk of it becoming acceptable.

  97. avatar
    Sef January 13, 2011 at 4:03 pm #

    I see Greer is enjoying a heat wave. It’s 38 now. Hope you are enjoying a well-deserved vacation. Did you see that yesterday Florida was the only state free of snow?

  98. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 13, 2011 at 6:12 pm #

    Sef: I see Greer is enjoying a heat wave. It’s 38 now. Hope you are enjoying a well-deserved vacation. Did you see that yesterday Florida was the only state free of snow?

    Yes, one of the other folks on our tour commented about the snow almost everywhere. Of course, there would not be any snow in Hawaii either. By the way, I don’t live in Greer; that’s just the nearest airport.

    They say it never gets below 70 degrees here in Panama. Here are two articles about the flooding here this past December:

    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2010/12/10/Panama-Canal-closed-due-to-flood-reopens/UPI-43211291963866/
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/lt_panama_flooding

  99. avatar
    Majority Will January 13, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Yes, one of the other folks on our tour commented about the snow almost everywhere. Of course, there would not be any snow in Hawaii either.

    There is snow in the mountains of Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa in Hawaii.

    “The first week of 2011 brought snow to Mauna Kea, more than we’ve seen in years. The snow was down to the 10,000 foot level on this dormant volcano that is 13,796 ft. above sea level.
    Its neighbor, Mauna Loa, had a considerable amount of snow as well. Mauna Loa is the largest volcano on Earth in terms of volume and area covered, and stands at 13,679 ft.—just slightly lower than Mauna Kea.”

    http://www.hawaiilife.com/articles/2011/01/snow-mauna-kea-mauna-loa/

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/11/snow-present-in-49-of-the-50-u-s-states/

  100. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 13, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    Scientist: Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says?

    Unless she starts putting her toe back in the birther stream, I certainly don’t care. I think she’s best described as a cartoon of the ugly American. In my opinion, she is unelectable for President.

  101. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    Dr. C:

    Well, I guess I will have to do a Internet Article about what it is about Sarah Palin that gets some peoples goat!!! Which is really pretty much that she is like the little kid at the party who said the Emperor was naked.

    Plus, I hope you are having fun wherever. Don’t worry about here. I will keep all the Obots in line! (LOL!!!)

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  102. avatar
    Rickey January 13, 2011 at 6:46 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Please ignore the troll.

    This blog doesn’t have an “ignore” function, but it’s easy enough to scroll right past her posts.

  103. avatar
    Sef January 13, 2011 at 6:51 pm #

    Rickey:
    This blog doesn’t have an “ignore” function, but it’s easy enough to scroll right past her posts.

    DKos has the comment collapse arrows. Maybe something like that would be useful here.

  104. avatar
    Rickey January 13, 2011 at 6:51 pm #

    ellid: Alan Dershowitz has been a joke for years.They don’t even take him seriously at Harvard any more, and haven’t for a long, long time.

    Dershowitz also defends the use of torture.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/17/60minutes/main324751.shtml

  105. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 13, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    Scientist: Could someone explain to me why anyone should pay any attention to Sarah Palin or to anything she says?

    That’s an easy one. So we can all get a big laugh and celebrate another 4 years of the Obama Administration when she says, “I am running for president as an independent candidate.”

  106. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    Meanwhile, your favorite little Girl Reporter has another Internet Article!!! Here is the link where you can ignore it or maybe mindread it:

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/the-democrats-hollowcaust/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  107. avatar
    Majority Will January 13, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    Rickey:
    This blog doesn’t have an “ignore” function, but it’s easy enough to scroll right past her posts.

    Yeah, you would think so and yet . . .

  108. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 13, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    All,

    Apologies for feeding the troll, but I couldn’t let this lie after Squeeky invoked the Holocaust…

    Squeeky,

    Sarah Palin’s use of the term ‘blood libel’ was an analogy comparing the media’s accusations against her to the accusations that Jews used the blood of Christian children in their matzo. Thus Sarah Palin is comparing her suffering to the Jews who were falsely accused and comparing her political opponents to their oppressors using an extremely racially charged term. Since you brought up the Holocaust, let me draw another analogy – this is essentially the same as if Sarah Palin had compared her suffering to that of the Jews under Hilter and compared her opponents to the Nazis. I’m not Jewish, but I don’t think I would look on either comparison kindly if I had lost family to either atrocity. The contrast of Caribou Barbie’s completely tone-deaf statement and the president’s speech show exactly why Ms. Palin doesn’t deserve her place on our national stage and gives a hint of just how big a catastrophe it would have been to elect her to high office…

  109. avatar
    Majority Will January 13, 2011 at 8:21 pm #

    Slartibartfast: All,Apologies for feeding the troll, but I couldn’t let this lie after Squeeky invoked the Holocaust…Squeeky,Sarah Palin’s use of the term blood libel’ was an analogy comparing the media’s accusations against her to the accusations that Jews used the blood of Christian children in their matzo.Thus Sarah Palin is comparing her suffering to the Jews who were falsely accused and comparing her political opponents to their oppressors using an extremely racially charged term.Since you brought up the Holocaust, let me draw another analogy – this is essentially the same as if Sarah Palin had compared her suffering to that of the Jews under Hilter and compared her opponents to the Nazis.I’m not Jewish, but I don’t think I would look on either comparison kindly if I had lost family to either atrocity.The contrast of Caribou Barbie’s completely tone-deaf statement and the president’s speech show exactly why Ms. Palin doesn’t deserve her place on our national stage and gives a hint of just how big a catastrophe it would have been to elect her to high office…

    And now you’re expecting a cogent, thoughtful response? Seriously?

    I’ll bet you could have accomplished this without addressing the vacuous, drunken, self-serving lunatic and senseless troll. For example, perhaps by addressing the few here you know to be Jewish as well as sane for a more lucid, honest and hopefully productive discussion.

    Just a thought.

  110. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    Slarty:

    I have provided 3 separate quoty thingies about this. Alan Dershowitz, the ADL (which means Anti Defamation League) and a National Review Internet Article of other famous people who have used the term. I have never even heard about the Jews eating Christian kids for supper thingy, but one of the descriptions did remind of certain pagan thingies like the sacrifices of Adonis stuff, and plus there used to be a lot of ritual castration except it was for real. I guess back when there was a Great Mother Worship, the Women knew how to keep the grunty little malebeasts in line better??? (LOL!!!)

    But anyway, back to this stuff, so at two Jewish people/orgs are telling you that the term has become broader in use, and then there is the list of others, like one or two maybe I have heard of. Frank Rich who is either a poet or a guy at the New York Times. I will look up again, and somebody else.

    Sooo, if people STILL want to dump on Sarah Plain, then that is there Free Speech right, but it is wrong, and to make it worse, it is being done by several people who I like a lot more than I do Rush Limbaugh, who seems like he needs a strong Woman to adjust his attitude.

    Majority Will:

    I know you just haaaatttteee my stuff and my Internet Articles, and that is one reason why I just stay on the open thread and nothing else so you and other Obots don’t have to get irritated all the time. But you really ought to read some of my Internet Articles because they might be better than what you think. Plus, I am only on glass of wine number 2, so I am NOT drunk.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  111. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 13, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    Majority Will:
    And now you’re expecting a cogent, thoughtful response?

    No, but I felt that there should be a cogent rebuttal to Squeeky’s invocation of the holocaust (which I found disgusting) on the thread and did my best to fill the need.

    Seriously?I’ll bet you could have accomplished this without addressing the vacuous, drunken, self-serving lunatic and senseless troll.

    Probably.

    For example, perhaps by addressing the few here you know to be Jewish as well as sane for a more lucid, honest and hopefully productive discussion.

    Good idea.

    Misha,

    Do you think my analog of Sarah Palin’s use of the term ‘blood libel’ and the holocaust was apt? (and on behalf of Sarah Palin and all of the self-absorbed demagogues who seem to be completely unaware of just how sensitive this topic is to your people, I’d like to apologize – Ms. Palin shames our entire country.)

    Just a thought.

    A reasonable one – I was in a hurry to write a post (I didn’t want to waste too much of my time replying to Squeeky) and didn’t take the time to explain my thought without addressing Squeeky. Rest assured that this was an exception and I have no intention to engage in Squeeky’s sophisticated dialectic (‘am not’, ‘are too’, ‘am not’, ‘are too, so there!’, ‘am not infinity’, ‘are too infinity plus one’, ‘tee hee, tee hee’…)

  112. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 13, 2011 at 9:12 pm #

    Slartibartfast: analog

    D’oh! That should be ‘analogy’…

  113. avatar
    Majority Will January 13, 2011 at 9:47 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Do you think my analog of Sarah Palin’s use of the term blood libel’ and the holocaust was apt? (and on behalf of Sarah Palin and all of the self-absorbed demagogues who seem to be completely unaware of just how sensitive this topic is to your people, I’d like to apologize – Ms. Palin shames our entire country.)

    I’m Jewish as well. My family members were murdered by Nazis. There is evil.
    I also lived through many taunts and relentless bullying of ignorant schoolmates with regards to issues like blood libel and other anti-semitic slurs.
    My first impression is that Palin is truly an idiot as I’ve known all along and that she has surrounded herself with like-minded idiots who think she can do no wrong. I don’t think she knew what she was saying because her ego tells her she doesn’t make mistakes – just like narcissistic birthers. However, she continues to play the victim and her hubris and inability to admit fault or take any responsibility for her horrid decisions whether it’s “blood libel”, crosshairs or “RELOAD” makes her more vile than I thought possible.

    Like some of the more vocal birthers, she is an embarrassment to this nation. Hopefully, she will continue to humiliate herself into obscurity and off the national stage.

    You betcha.

  114. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 13, 2011 at 10:14 pm #

    Will,

    I think that ‘narcissistic’ is the key to Ms. Palin – you’re exactly right when you say her ego wont allow her to admit her mistakes which her lack of engagement and self-centeredness make inevitable. With regard to like-minded idiots and whether or not she understood how charged the phrase is, I would note that although someone (not her) seems to have written the speech and they knew (or should have known) about the phrase they were using, Ms. Palin has a responsibility having used the speech – she either knew the background of the phrase before she used it or could have apologized for using the phrase afterwards if she thought that it was inappropriate – in either case we see that Ms. Palin clearly thinks that her travails at the hands of the media are comparable to the suffering and oppression which the Jewish people endured. I can’t think of a clearer indication of what an egotistical narcissist (with an overactive victim complex) she is…

  115. avatar
    Scientist January 13, 2011 at 10:22 pm #

    Slartibartfast: her travails at the hands of the media

    Palin has made millions at the hands of the media. Please, may I have such “travails”?

  116. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 13, 2011 at 10:25 pm #

    Scientist:
    Palin has made millions at the hands of the media.Please, may I have such “travails”?

    Yeah, I could use some of that ‘suffering’, too…

  117. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 13, 2011 at 10:40 pm #

    Slartibartfast: All,Apologies for feeding the troll, but I couldn’t let this lie after Squeeky invoked the Holocaust…

    And now you know why it says the dumb things it does – BAIT!

  118. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 13, 2011 at 10:50 pm #

    obsolete: 1- Squeeky approves of political violence.

    I also approve of political violence. While I cannot foresee a situation happening in the United States where I would feel political violence could be justified, if I were from an earlier time and someone came to me with a plan to sneak a bomb into Hitler’s bunker, I might well have joined up.

  119. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 13, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    Trolls talk stupid just to get you respond to their idiocy. All they want is attention to make themselves feel important. If you respond to trolls they have won no matter how intelligent your response is. Trolls don’t care about facts; all they care about is the attention

  120. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 13, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    And now you know why it says the dumb things it does – BAIT!

    I know, but I believe it is important to put truth next to vile disinformation and misunderstanding… If I feel the need to respond in the future, I will find a way to do it like Will suggested rather than engaging – certainly I expect nothing more from Squeeky than small-minded ignorance masquerading (badly) as intelligence and wisdom…

  121. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 11:05 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    I know, but I believe it is important to put truth next to vile disinformation and misunderstanding…If I feel the need to respond in the future, I will find a way to do it like Will suggested rather than engaging – certainly I expect nothing more from Squeeky than small-minded ignorance masquerading (badly) as intelligence and wisdom…

    Well, since nobody is “engaging”:

    To Whom It may Concern:

    That is why I post stuff, too. To put truth next to vile disinformation and stupid stuff. I can’t help it that people don’t read it, or believe it, or even really good links. I just say what I think needs to be said.Sometimes that is just all you can do.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  122. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 13, 2011 at 11:07 pm #

    What we have here is an infestation of the nastiest and most virulent kind of troll – the frustrated narcissistic troll. No amount of attention will ever convince it that it has received the attention it thinks it deserves, so it persists and persists, and persists in saying dumb things thinking that just a little more attention will satisfy it. It’s appetite for attention is insatiable, however, since it’s narcissism is boundless and its failures evident even in its own mind

  123. avatar
    Majority Will January 13, 2011 at 11:10 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    I know, but I believe it is important to put truth next to vile disinformation and misunderstanding…If I feel the need to respond in the future, I will find a way to do it like Will suggested rather than engaging – certainly I expect nothing more from Squeeky than small-minded ignorance masquerading (badly) as intelligence and wisdom…

    Yes, this is anecdotal but all in all, I remember only a very small handful of birthers who seemed just confused and ignorant of the truth. Now as time marches on it seems like only the hardcore idiots are hanging on.

  124. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 13, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Trolls talk stupid just to get you respond to their idiocy. All they want is attention to make themselves feel important. If you respond to trolls they have won no matter how intelligent your response is. Trolls don’t care about facts; all they care about is the attention

    My response to Squeeky had nothing to do with any future action it may or may not take it had to do with not leaving a reference to the Holocaust which I found disgusting unanswered. I agree with you about engaging it in general and made an exception for the reasons that I have stated – you may disagree with my reasoning for doing so, but don’t think that I don’t understand what it is trying to do.

  125. avatar
    Majority Will January 13, 2011 at 11:18 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: What we have here is an infestation of the nastiest and most virulent kind of troll – the frustrated narcissistic troll. No amount of attention will ever convince it that it has received the attention it thinks it deserves, so it persists and persists, and persists in saying dumb things thinking that just a little more attention will satisfy it. It’s appetite for attention is insatiable, however, since it’s narcissism is boundless and its failures evident even in its own mind

    And the Andromeda Strain wasn’t neutralized. It eventually mutated to a benign form.

  126. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 11:20 pm #

    Oh yes, “it” is soooo NEFARIOUS!!! People make up stupid slander and libel about someone like Sarah Palin, and here “it” comes with all this EVIL stuff from Alan Dershowitz, and the ADL, and even New York Times peoples and just kills the little Obot Buzz with truth. You Obots are a piece of work!!!

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  127. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 13, 2011 at 11:29 pm #

    In addition to an “ignore the troll” button, it would be nice to have an “edit” button so we could correct things like those “it’s” contractions I mistakenly posted.

  128. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 13, 2011 at 11:29 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Yes, this is anecdotal but all in all, I remember only a very small handful of birthers who seemed just confused and ignorant of the truth. Now as time marches on it seems like only the hardcore idiots are hanging on.

    I’m sure there is a natural selection process whereby people get sucked deeper and deeper into the movement until their gullibility is exceeded and they get spit out – by now pretty much the only ones left are the ones with a strong enough confirmation bias to ignore all of the evidence…

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: What we have here is an infestation of the nastiest and most virulent kind of troll – the frustrated narcissistic troll. No amount of attention will ever convince it that it has received the attention it thinks it deserves, so it persists and persists, and persists in saying dumb things thinking that just a little more attention will satisfy it. It’s appetite for attention is insatiable, however, since it’s narcissism is boundless and its failures evident even in its own mind

    FUT,

    Seems like a pretty solid analysis to me. You should make a Troll bestiary or taxonomy – then we could classify trolls and stick them on pieces of cardboard with pins like butterflies (figuratively speaking, of course… ;-)).

  129. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 13, 2011 at 11:32 pm #

    Yes, a taxonomy of trolls. Now that would be something people would need and find very useful on a site like this. lmao

  130. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 13, 2011 at 11:33 pm #

    maybe a troll Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, DSM-T

  131. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 13, 2011 at 11:34 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Inaddition to an “ignore the troll” button, it would be nice to have an “edit” button so we could correct things like those “it’s” contractions I mistakenly posted.

    Yeah, eye feal lik that alot.

  132. avatar
    Majority Will January 13, 2011 at 11:44 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Inaddition to an “ignore the troll” button, it would be nice to have an “edit” button so we could correct things like those “it’s” contractions I mistakenly posted.

    http://www.journalismcareers.com/guidetotheapostrophe.shtml

    Go with Bob the Angry Flower.

    Never fear the apostrophe.

  133. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 13, 2011 at 11:47 pm #

    lmao @ both

  134. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 13, 2011 at 11:56 pm #

    From DSM-T: Chapter 17 STD’s (Sanctimonious Twit Disorders)

    Above all, the diagnostician must be careful in accepting Troll Descriptive Input Information before administering the Minnesota STD Test to the information provider. STD’s tend to see “trolls” behind every URL. In fact, to STD’s, “trolls” are simply those having opinions contrary to those of the provider.

    STD’s tend to cluster in Internet “Covens” where their intolerance for disagreement is reinforced by the other members of the coven. In the most nefarious example of mis-diagnosis, a Girl Reporter, Squeeky “Doe” was mis-diagnosed by a practitioner after repeated reports from a group of STD’s that she was a troll.

    A follow-up study revealed the coven had merged into a Jungian “mass-mind” where all individuality was absorbed by the collective. Each member of the coven had adopted the same outerwear, including bow ties, and Nikes. Squeeky “Doe” was just too strong willed to be broken and absorbed into the seething bile-filled mass. In fact, the very smart Ms. Doe is responsible for coining the term, Sanctimonious Twits.

    Before they could be treated, the coven dis-appeared to a mountain retreat in Kenya to await the arrival of a “mother ship.” Current psychiatric jurisdiction does not extend to Kenya, and the coven remains untreated. Unsubstantiated reports are that they are still protesting President Sarah Palin’s second term in office, claiming she was actually born in Canada, and thus not a natural born citizen.

    Squeeky “Doe”
    Girl Reporter

  135. avatar
    Majority Will January 14, 2011 at 12:15 am #

    As much as I detest your birther trolls. January 13, 2011 at 11:56 pm is?

  136. avatar
    Majority Will January 14, 2011 at 12:17 am #

    SqueekyFromm: From DSM-T: Chapter 17 STD’s (Sanctimonious Twit Disorders)Above all, the diagnostician must be careful in accepting Troll Descriptive Input Information before administering the Minnesota STD Test to the information provider. STD’s tend to see “trolls” behind every URL. In fact, to STD’s, “trolls” are simply those having opinions contrary to those of the provider.
    STD’s tend to cluster in Internet “Covens” where their intolerance for disagreement is reinforced by the other members of the coven. In the mostnefarious example of mis-diagnosis, a Girl Reporter, Squeeky “Doe” was mis-diagnosed by a practitioner after repeated reports from a group of STD’s that she was a troll.A follow-up study revealed the coven had merged into a Jungian “mass-mind” where all individuality was absorbed by the collective. Each member of the coven had adopted the same outerwear, including bow ties, and Nikes. Squeeky “Doe” was just too strong willed to be broken and absorbed into the seething bile-filled mass. In fact, the very smart Ms. Doe is responsible for coining the term, Sanctimonious Twits.Before they could be treated, the coven dis-appeared to a mountain retreat in Kenya to await the arrival of a “mother ship.”Current psychiatric jurisdiction does not extend to Kenya, and the coven remains untreated. Unsubstantiated reports are that they are still protesting President Sarah Palin’s second term in office, claiming she was actually born in Canada, and thus not a natural born citizen.
    Squeeky “Doe”
    Girl Reporter

    GFY

  137. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 14, 2011 at 12:18 am #

    Majority Will: As much as I detest your birther trolls. January 13, 2011 at 11:56 pm is?

    Another pitiful, pathetic cry for attention.

  138. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 14, 2011 at 12:24 am #

    Majority Will: As much as I detest your birther trolls. January 13, 2011 at 11:56 pm is?

    . . .is a brilliant tour de force! I laughed! I cried! It became a part of me!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  139. avatar
    Dave January 14, 2011 at 12:32 am #

    Routine confusion by Taitz: she brags:

    over 90,000 comments on a small article on snops.com about my case in front of the Supreme Court. It shows that people want to know the truth

    She doesn’t link to the snopes article, but it’s here. It has 18 comments. Definitely not 90,000. The 90,291 refers to the number of posts snopes has made on his own website.

  140. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 14, 2011 at 12:48 am #

    Dave: Routine confusion by Taitz: she brags:
    She doesn’t link to the snopes article, but it’s here. It has 18 comments. Definitely not 90,000. The 90,291 refers to the number of posts snopes has made on his own website.

    Taitz is bragging? Has she checked lately to see what the president’s name is?

  141. avatar
    The Magic M January 14, 2011 at 5:18 am #

    > The 90,291 refers to the number of posts snopes has made on his own website.

    Taitz is amazingly, often amusingly, stupid. Recently she claimed that Google’s display of “1.6 mio. results (0.35s)” meant that there were 1.6 mio. new articles about the subject in the last 35 seconds. I informed her about that misunderstanding on her blog, but of course she deleted me and kept the false information up. At one point, these people really get blind towards everything, even the most basic of errors.

  142. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 14, 2011 at 6:06 am #

    Meanwhile, back at the Super Best Friends… er… um… I mean Dr. Kate’s…

    This episode Quantum Leap gives us a diagnosis of Jared Loughner:

    Quantum Leap
    January 14, 2011 at 12:16 am
    People like this are possessed and need an excorcism. No pills or hospital will help. His heavy dependence on THC didn’t help any.

    In our next exciting episode QL will explain how to determine if someone is a witch… (hint: if she weighs the same as a duck…)

  143. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 14, 2011 at 9:14 am #

    Slartibartfast: Meanwhile, back at the Super Best Friends… er… um… I mean Dr. Kate’s…This episode Quantum Leap gives us a diagnosis of Jared Loughner:In our next exciting episode QL will explain how to determine if someone is a witch… (hint: if she weighs the same as a duck…)

    Mighty fine application of Python’s Law sir.

  144. avatar
    Black Lion January 14, 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    From the Post and Fail, another story along the lines of the Race Bannon fiction. You remember, the guy that claimed that when he was in the military he ran into a young Barack Obama and he claimed that Obama told him he would be President even though he was born in Kenya….This is almost as unbelievable….

    It would be interesting to see comments from the posters here who grew up in HI if any of these claims are remotely true….

    “(Jan. 13, 2011) — CBS News allowed the following comment to be published on its website following an article about Obama’s visit to Arizona yesterday:

    It’s a big leap from running into Obama’s father on campus and knowing details of this birth. Especially since Barack’s father was the first papolo “black” person in the 60 year history of UH Manoa at that time to attend grad school. Hence would have attracted lots of looks and attention on campus, none the less having a pregnant white wife. Neil Abercrombie being a lifelong self promoter and attention seeker would have naturally gravitated to Mr. Obama Sr.

    This comment “I was here when he was born” is worthless as you were not present at Mr. Obama’s birth. I doubt also that you can swear under oath that you had ever visited the house Mrs. Obama, your “buddies wife” supposedly lived in on Kalaniana`ole Hwy near Hawai`i Kai.

    The two separate birth announcements appearing in the local newspapers, The Honolulu Advertiser and The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, in 1961 needing further clarification. That the two newspapers were operating out of the same building at 605 Kapi`Olani St. That more than likely, the State Dept of Health, in 1961 was not prepared to deal with a birth where validity was in question. The list of babies being printed prior to amending with Barak’s named stricken from the list. The only public and rather flimsy record contemporaneous to the time being offered to the public.

    Who were the doctor(s) and nurse(s) at Kapi`Olani that delivered Barack? My ex-wife worked at the hospital and I understand the records at Kapi’Olani are impeccable. Where are the foot prints? What public records exist that can even demonstrate that Mrs. Obama was even at Kapi’Olani on the day of Barack’s birth? Talk at Kapi`Olani, would have been unabashed, the city of Honolulu at the time very racist towards black people. Even up until the early 1990′s, as CEO of a local electrical contracting company was not allowed by my company president to employ black people. A practice that was common place at the time.

    The USA and world painting a revisionist history and falsely romantic interpretation and understanding of race issues in Hawai`i. That from post WWII, racism in Honolulu was ramped and far from subtle, stemming from general distrust for non “locals” and in particular, negatively effecting people of white and black accessory arriving from abroad. Public racist statements in the 1980-90′s by Haunani Trask, a tenured professor from the University of Hawai`i openly tolerated as being justifiable. Having once held a Hawai`ian real-estate license in the 1980′s, encountered racism frequently, all a social norm at the time.

    How did Barak’s mother get to the campus living so far from Manoa? An acquaintance of mine lived only 1.5 blocks from where Obama’s mother supposedly live on Kalaniana`ole Hwy near Hawai`i Kai. An expensive neighborhood behind Paiko lagoon and odd location for an impoverished mother and supposed UH student to live.

    A fianc? of mine, father built the subdivision in Niu Valley, and nieli “nosey” mother would have known in 1961-1962 if a black child lived in the area. A black child not associated with the military. Barack’s birth more than likely the first hapa black/white to be born in the state that year off base, if not the first ever recorded.

    In low density Hawai`ian neighborhoods, the birth of a child is as much a neighborhood event as it is family. Curiosity held by the “local” ladies would have been insatiable. All would have made or gave gifts for the new baby, if for no other reason than to see this new born, regionally unique child. I haven’t heard a single story about how someone gave this gift or that gift to the new mom or baby. Who were his local “aunties” that cared for the newborn?

    Who were these mystery people in Honolulu whose identities and kindness still have yet to be revealed and openly appreciated by Mr. Obama? Let’s be honest, a real and salacious story of this nature would not have been missed by a local Honolulu production team, Hollywood or the Discovery Channel. Yet to date, nothing of substance, detail and evidence like some sort of immaculate birth. The loudest Obama supporters like Mr. Abercrombie calling for the whole sale dilution of the Presidential vetting process.

    Probability being that Mr. Obama is perpetrating the single greatest fraud ever enacted upon this country since the signing of the Declaration of Independence. A product of the people on the mainland knowing little of the unique culture, demographics in Hawai`i and absurd nature of Mr. Obama’s claim backed by unscrupulous and or naive people. The only possible fraud remaining, that Mr. Obama could do at this point, greater in magnitude and scale, would be to try and have a team reenact this supposed birth at Kapi’Olani Medical Center. For to do so would definitely fall under the RICO Act, if not so already.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/13/how-can-america-thrive-with-a-liar-and-fraudster-in-the-office-of-the-presidency/

    And in the comments…

    Big J says:
    Thursday, January 13, 2011 at 1:56 PM
    The Federalist Blog came out with powerful evidence the other day that children born to alien fathers are not born to the subject to the jurisdiction thereof:

    http://federalistblog.us/2011/01/rebuttal_to_james_hos_birthright_op-ed.html

  145. avatar
    Black Lion January 14, 2011 at 12:13 pm #

    More Post and Fial Nonsense from the article above….

    Grand Birther says:
    Thursday, January 13, 2011 at 12:32 PM
    The Problems with Obama’s Illegal Presidency.

    1) Obama has not proven his alleged FANTASY Hawaiian birth beyond a reasonable doubt. There is an original long form birth certificate supposedly available to Obama, that could possibly prove his alleged FANTASY Hawaiian birth narrative is true, but Obama refuses to release that document.
    This gives rise to the doubt that the document really even exists.

    2) Obama has released a short form birth certificate that contains no independently verifiable information or data upon it that is not definitive proof of his alleged FANTASY Hawaiian birth, and does not contain the exact specific numerical location address of the birth, or name any witness to the birth, save for Obama’s Mother.

    3) Obama has released at least 2 different copies of his short form birth certificate meaning that most likely one of them is fraudulent, if not both of them. The first released document had no raised visible embossed seal, then magically a raised visible seal appeared on the second released document. No valid logical explanation has ever been offered to explain this anomaly by any Obama supporter.

    4) Hawaii DOH has refused a direct request to authenticate, and has never authenticated Obama’s released short form birth certificate. Hawaii DOH has never indicated or admitted that Obama ordered that short form birth certificate from Hawaii DOH, or that they in fact mailed that document to him, which is all perfectly legal for them to do.
    Hawaii DOH Director Fukino has made 2 official statements and given sworn testimony once, and never once indicated or said that Obama’s released short form birth certificate was an authentic document.

    5) Hawaii DOH Director Fukino has made 2 official statements and given sworn testimony once, and never specifically and clearly indicated that she had physically seen the original long form birth certificate, as opposed to just seeing that the document existed on a computer screen.
    Her carefully worded statement could in fact be true either way, yet she lets its meaning remain ambiguous rather than clearing the matter up over the course of 2 official statements and one instance of giving sworn testimony.

    6) Numerous people have said things tending to show that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. In 2007, and again in 2008 respectively, Michelle Obama said, Barack, a Kenyan, and then, Barack Obama’s home country is Kenya. Barack Obama’s own Grandmother has indicated that she was present for his birth in Kenya and never retracted what she had said herself, even though family members tried to do so for her. Various Kenyan Government officials and natives have said things like, Obama is a “Son of Kenyan soil”, and a “Native born Kenyan”. One Government official clearly stated that Obama was a Kenyan born U.S. President.
    There is a Kenyan birth certificate for Obama that has never been proven to be a forged document in any court, as no case concerning Obama’s eligibility issue has ever been heard on the merits by any court.

    7) Obama describes himself as a Native born American citizen, because as a trained Constitutional lawyer who worked on legislation as a Senator concerning Electoral fraud, he knows that he is not a Constitutionally eligible Natural born citizen, by virtue of having a Foreign Father and having dual British/Kenyan citizenship at birth and thereby having dual allegiance at birth.

    The undisputed facts are that, Obama hasn’t definitively proven his alleged FANTASY Hawaiian birth beyond a reasonable doubt, and to the exclusion of all other locations, nor could he ever be considered a Natural born citizen under the Constitution, or any Amendment ever made to the Constitution.

    The Constitution requires the responsibility for proving eligibility for the office of the President to fall upon the officeholder, and not on “We the People”.

    C’mon SHEEPLE, show us what you have.

  146. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 15, 2011 at 1:58 pm #

    Here is my latest Internet Article for you to ignore. “What IF the Tucson Shooter Had Been a Birther???”

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/what-if-the-tucson-shooter-had-been-a-birther/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  147. avatar
    Joey January 15, 2011 at 3:57 pm #

    Speaking of “ignore,” I predict that the Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States will “Ignore” the request for a Writ of Certiorari on Tuesday when we see “Hollister v Soetoro” on the list of appeals that have been denied “cert” without comment.

    That will mean 12 Obama eligibility applications for stays, injunctions or Writs that have been “ignored” by the Supreme Court: Berg v Obama, Beverly v FEC, Craig v US, Donofrio v Wells, Herbert v Obama, Kerchner v Obama, Lightfoot v Bowen, Schneller v Cortes, Taitz v MacDonald, Taitz’s request for injunction, Wrotnowski v Bysiewicz (and soon to be joined by “Hollister v Soetoro”).

    Since it only takes FOUR of the nine Justices to agree to grant a petition for a Writ of Certiorari, it looks like the birthers have not been able to convince Alito, Kennedy, Roberts, Scalia or Thomas to look into Obama’s constitutional eligibility.
    In related news, Senator John McCain referred to President Obama’s Tucson speech as the words of a patriot.

  148. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 15, 2011 at 4:21 pm #

    Following up on ignore, here is another one for you Obots to mindread! A Squeekonomics one: The Great G. Gordon Liddy Gold Paradox!!!

    http://squeekonomics.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/the-great-g-gordon-liddy-gold-paradox/

    Oh, I am writing so much you Obots will just be ignoring me for hours!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  149. avatar
    Dave January 15, 2011 at 10:12 pm #

    Taitz’s blog posts an open letter from the always entertaining Miki Booth to Sen. Inhofe. She is enraged about a bill he co-sponsored in the 108th Congress. Yes, almost seven years ago. I guess Booth has a real slow fuse.

    …for the life of me I cannot understand why you along with Mary Landrieu and former OK Senator Don Nickles would presume to interpret the Constitution (which is a violation of the constitution itself) and proffer a bill (108th Congress, 2nd Session S.2128.IS) reducing to a minimum the qualifications for eligibility for the Office of President as any person born in or out of the United States as long as one parent is a citizen.

    Which is not exactly what it says — you can read it yourself at Thomas, but it roughly says that anyone born in the US, citizen parents or not, or outside the US to a citizen parent, or adopted by citizen parents.

    Her objection that Congress can’t interpret the Constitution sounds right to me, but other than that the letter is amusingly deranged. Like this:

    What conversations did you have with Nickles and Landrieu in the time frame leading up to February, 2004? Was Bobby Jindal discussed? Was Obama discussed? It seems to me this bill was tailor-made to clear the way for Obama, and Jindal too, for that matter, to run for president.

    Yes, I’m sure Sen. Inhofe was conspiring to install the usurper as early as 2004.

  150. avatar
    Scientist January 16, 2011 at 8:01 am #

    Dave: Her objection that Congress can’t interpret the Constitution sounds right to me

    Congress is perfectly entiitled to express their views on constitutional matters,as are you, me or anyone else. Courts would consider those views in making their decisions, though they are not bound by them.

  151. avatar
    NdH January 16, 2011 at 11:07 am #

    The question should not be whether Congress has the ability to interpret the Constitution (in fact, Congress has a duty to interpret the Constitution. They cannot adhere to (support and defend) that which they would not interpret). The question, which must be answered in the negative, is whether Congress has the authority to modify (amend) a provision set forth in the Constitution.

    Without the Constitution, Congress would not exist. They derive their authority from the Constitution. How can they change it without destroying the foundation of their own authority?

  152. avatar
    Ballantine January 16, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    Scientist: Congress is perfectly entiitled to express their views on constitutional matters,as are you, me or anyone else. Courts would consider those views in making their decisions, though they are not bound by them.

    .
    Wonder if Orly ever heard of James Madison:
    .

    “When the objection was raised that the legislature had no right to expound the Constitution, but must defer all doubtful questions of constitutional interpretation to the judiciary, Madison replied, “I beg to know upon what principle it can be contended that any one department draws from the Constitution greater powers than another, in marking out the limits of the powers of the several departments.” In reply to the contention that an act of Congress might be ignored by the courts, Madison emphatically declared that “nothing has yet been offered to invalidate the doctrine that the meaning of the constitution may as well be ascertained by the legislature as by the judicial authority.” “It is therefore a fair question,” he said, “whether this great power may not as well be decided at least by the whole legislature, as by part — by us, as well as by the executive or the judicial.”

  153. avatar
    Sef January 16, 2011 at 11:20 am #

    Ballantine:
    .
    Wonder if Orly ever heard of James Madison:
    .“When the objection was raised that the legislature had no right to expound the Constitution, but must defer all doubtful questions of constitutional interpretation to the judiciary, Madison replied, “I beg to know upon what principle it can be contended that any one department draws from the Constitution greater powers than another, in marking out the limits of the powers of the several departments.” In reply to the contention that an act of Congress might be ignored by the courts, Madison emphatically declared that “nothing has yet been offered to invalidate the doctrine that the meaning of the constitution may as well be ascertained by the legislature as by the judicial authority.”“It is therefore a fair question,” he said, “whether this great power may not as well be decided at least by the whole legislature, as by part — by us, as well as by the executive or the judicial.”

    I dare say the the entire world would be a vastly different place were it not for Marbury v Madison.

  154. avatar
    Scientist January 16, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    NdH: The question, which must be answered in the negative, is whether Congress has the authority to modify (amend) a provision set forth in the Constitution.

    Wel,l of course, Congress can amend the Constitution provided a sufficient number of state legislatures agree. However, the act referred to doesn’t amend the Constitution, rather, it codifies Congress’ opinion on what specific phrases in the document mean. Congress is perfectly entitled to state their opinion, just as anyone else is. A party with standing could challenge what Congress did and the courts might agree or disagree.

    NdH: Without the Constitution, Congress would not exist. They derive their authority from the Constitution.

    I disagree. Parliament has existed in Britain for close to 1,000 years without a written Constitution, and they have done just fine. Acts of Parliament are the supreme law of the land (at least until Britain joined the EU). Congress would exist and have full powers had the US chosen not to have a written Constitution.

  155. avatar
    NdH January 16, 2011 at 12:14 pm #

    Sef: I dare say the the entire world would be a vastly different place were it not for Marbury v Madison.

    Don’t you mean Mugler v Kansas (1887)? After all, that is the first case in which Marbury was cited as the origin of the Court’s power to review Acts of Legislature. (Incorrectly, I might add.)

    Madison’s speech (quoted above) was presented before Congress on June 17, 1789. At that time, it was technically correct. However, on September 24, 1789 Congress, under the authority of Article I, Section 8, granted the Supreme Court the authority to determine the validity of a treaty or statute of, or an authority exercised under the United States, or of the various states, were constitutional.

    Marbury should be remembered for the dance, not for the law people incorrectly think it espoused.

  156. avatar
    NdH January 16, 2011 at 12:25 pm #

    Scientist,

    You are conflating a simple Act of Legislation with that of a Constitutional Amendment.

    Try this: Instead of just saying what you think the law should be, why don’t you quote the provision of the U.S. Constitution from which you think Congress has been granted the authority.

    Congress has been granted the authority to “establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization”. That is the authority to make someone who is an alien, a naturalized citizen. Your contention is that Congress can make the alien a natural born citizen. From where do you think Congress has been granted that authority?

    You also fail to see the restrictions of power established by a written constitution. Maybe you should start by reviewing the purpose of the Magna Carta.

  157. avatar
    Scientist January 16, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    NdH: Your contention is that Congress can make the alien a natural born citizen. From where do you think Congress has been granted that authority?

    It seems (perhaps only on-line, but nevertheless) that there are differing opinions as to what the term “natural born citizen” encompasses. Are you saying that you can have an opinion on that and Mario Apuzzo can have an opinion and Dr C can have an opinion, but Congress can’t? And assuming Congress is as entitled to an opinion as you, Mario and Dr C, are they not free to express that opinion?

    NdH: You also fail to see the restrictions of power established by a written constitution. Maybe you should start by reviewing the purpose of the Magna Carta

    The Magna Carta restricted the authority of the King, not that of Parliament. In fact, Parliament’s powers are quite unrestricted, in principle. For example, by law, Parliament must dissolve itself by the 5 year anniversary of the last election. Yet the 1935 Parliament sat until 1945, due to the war. The absolute powers of Parliament have been modified only with the entry of Britain into the EU, which allows EU courts to review legislation.

  158. avatar
    NdH January 16, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    Scientist: Are you saying that you can have an opinion on that and Mario Apuzzo can have an opinion and Dr C can have an opinion, but Congress can’t? And assuming Congress is as entitled to an opinion as you, Mario and Dr C, are they not free to express that opinion?

    You know what they say about opinions. People can express any opinion they desire. That doesn’t mean it complies with established law or historical use. It also does not permit a simple Act of Legislature to modify the Constitution.

    I’m not concerned with Parliamentary procedure. We don’t operate under their rules. They provide no exception to our own.

  159. avatar
    Jules January 16, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    Scientist: The Magna Carta restricted the authority of the King, not that of Parliament. In fact, Parliament’s powers are quite unrestricted, in principle. For example, by law, Parliament must dissolve itself by the 5 year anniversary of the last election. Yet the 1935 Parliament sat until 1945, due to the war. The absolute powers of Parliament have been modified only with the entry of Britain into the EU, which allows EU courts to review legislation.

    More to the point, the Magna Carta entered into force as the law of the land by statute. It can only be regarded as taking any constitutional significance to the extent that statutes form a key part of the British constitution and the mechanism by which the constitution is changed.

    The decision to extend the life of Parliament during the war was done by statute. The exact date on which Parliament gets dissolved is part of the royal prerogative, provided that it is done by the deadline provided by statute. However, constitutional conventions dictate that monarch must only such decisions on the advice of ministers and ministers must advise a dissolution where they lose the confidence of the House of Commons.

    It is only because of the will of Parliament that the British courts were able to prevent the enforcement of an Act of Parliament in Factortame. The power to apply the supremacy of EU law came from the European Communities Act, which incorporated into UK law all the UK’s obligations under the EU treaties. If Parliament repealed the European Communities Act tomorrow, then the the supremacy of EU law would not be part of UK law even though the UK would still be a member of the EU and obligated by the EU to uphold the supremacy of EU law.

    Of course, the ECA took a greater constitutional significance than an ordinary statute because its provisions were held not to be impliedly repealed by later inconsistent legislation, departing from the reasoning of Ellen Street Estates that no Act of Parliament may immunise itself from implied repeal. The High Court went on to suggest in Thoburn v Sunderland that the ECA is part of a class of statutes that can only be repealed expressly.

  160. avatar
    Scientist January 16, 2011 at 2:15 pm #

    NdH: It also does not permit a simple Act of Legislature to modify the Constitution.

    The proposed Act would not modify the Constitution in the slightest. The document would remain unaltered. If Congress passed a law striking the term “natural born citizen” and replacing it with “pork chop” that would be beyond their power. However an act putting on record what they believe the term means is 100% within their purview.

  161. avatar
    NdH January 16, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    Scientist: However an act putting on record what they believe the term means is 100% within their purview.

    And it has about as much effect as a beer fart does to the current weather. 🙂

    What you’re talking about is known as a non-binding resolution. If adopted, it is nothing more than a public statement of the current majority opinion as it relates to a particular subject. It has no force or effect of law. It is not passed on to the Executive. It is a legal nullity intended to inform their constituents, and the media.

    Why do you find it to be important? What would you say if the current House entered into a non-binding resolution stating that two U.S. Citizen parents, and born on U.S. soil are required to be considered a natural born citizen?

    Don’t get confused. Congress cannot “pass a law” that defines a term used in the Constitution. A non-binding resolution is not law.

  162. avatar
    Scientist January 16, 2011 at 4:06 pm #

    NdH: What would you say if the current House entered into a non-binding resolution stating that two U.S. Citizen parents, and born on U.S. soil are required to be considered a natural born citizen?

    I would vote against that if I were a Member, but Congress has a right to pass such a resolution. Anyone denied ballot access as a result would have recourse to the courts.
    Actually, since ballot access is really under the control of the states, anything Congress passes would have little practical effect.

    Congress certainlydoes pass actual laws based on their interpretation of the Constitution. In fact, every law they pass is believed by the majority to be constitutional.

  163. avatar
    HellT January 16, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Yes, a taxonomy of trolls. Now that would be something people would need and find very useful on a site like this. lmao

    Here ya go:

    A Guide to Internet Flame Warriors
    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/

  164. avatar
    Rickey January 16, 2011 at 4:18 pm #

    NdH:
    Why do you find it to be important?

    Who said that it was important? It’s just amusing that Orly Taitz would suggest that right-wing Senators Nickle and Inhofe (and Blue Dog Democrat Mary Landrieu) wanted to “clear the way” for Obama.

    If there is any importance to the bill, it is in the fact that the Senators were expressing the understanding that the citizenship of parents is irrelevant regarding a person born in and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, and the citizenship of only one parent is relevant to the birth of someone outside of the United States.

    That said, there actually was one clause in the bill which would have been very controversial. The bill stated that “natural born citizen” would include “any person born outside the United States…who is adopted by 18 years of age by a United States citizen parent or parents who are otherwise eligible to transmit citizenship to a biological child pursuant to an Act of Congress.”

    Of course, the bill never made it out of committee.

  165. avatar
    gorefan January 16, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    Scientist: Congress has a right to pass such a resolution.

    House Republicans recently said thay would not pass anymore meanless resolutions.

  166. avatar
    Northland10 January 16, 2011 at 7:10 pm #

    NdH: Congress cannot “pass a law” that defines a term used in the Constitution.

    Congress can pass any bill they darn well please. However, passing a bill and having it become a law and remain a law are much different. If they pass a bill that some feel to be unconstitutional, it could be stopped by the following:

    1. President’s veto

    2. A suit brought be a person who receives personal “injury” (or injury is imminent) to the courts which may determine that the law is unconstitutional.

    3. A repeal by the Congress as they determine that, they may lose reelection if they do not repeal the law (or it is repealed by a future Congress).

    So yes, a Congress can pass any bill, even an ex-post facto law (clearly unconstitutional) but as with everything, there may be consequences.

    Of course, since a non-binding resolution is only an opinion of the members, the only consequence may be number 3 above.

  167. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 16, 2011 at 7:48 pm #

    OH, another GREAT Internet Article by me!!! You Obots are going to have full time jobs ignoring all my stuff!!!

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/yoohoo-paul-krugman-where-are-you/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  168. avatar
    Dave January 16, 2011 at 8:17 pm #

    I see my comment in regard to Miki Booth’s open letter to Sen. Inhofe “Her objection that Congress can’t interpret the Constitution sounds right to me, but other than that the letter is amusingly deranged” has led to more discussion that I would have thought.

    I was of course speaking more concisely than correctly (since this point was somewhat tangential to the comment it appeared in). Indeed Congress can’t do their job without having a view about what the Constitution says. And the Senate can and does pass resolutions about anything they want, and that could include an interpretation of the Constitution. As it did in the famous resolution that Sen. McCain is a natural born citizen.

    But the ancient bill Booth was referring to shows every sign of being intended to become a law, and explicitly did nothing but tell us what the Constitution means by “natural born”. Even if passed by both Houses and signed by the President, I seriously doubt the courts would pay it the slightest attention. Which is probably why the thing died in committee without consideration.

  169. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 16, 2011 at 9:44 pm #

    FINALLY, you Obots agree with me!!! OH Happy Day!!! Thank you Fut!!! I did a Internet Article!!! But I kept you anonymous!!!

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/the-obots-finally-agree-with-squeeky/

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  170. avatar
    NdH January 16, 2011 at 10:17 pm #

    Dave: I seriously doubt the courts would pay it the slightest attention.

    How could they? Who would have standing? Other than a restriction to the Office of President, natural born citizen is a meaningless term. It would be at least 35 years before someone, born under the application of the new statute would meet the age requirement. (unless Congress would make it retroactive.)

    And if it did so happen that someone affected by the statute did win the election, and a like-thinking Congress certified the election, current history dictates that all cases would be dismissed. The only way to undo it would be by impeachment (or so I have been told), and the Congress that certified the election is not likely to look back on what they had jst approved.

  171. avatar
    Rickey January 16, 2011 at 11:29 pm #

    NdH:
    Other than a restriction to the Office of President, natural born citizen is a meaningless term. It would be at least 35 years before someone, born under the application of the new statute would meet the age requirement.

    You’re assuming that the law would have actually changed the status quo. Only the third clause in the law would have altered the status quo.

    Apart from Vattelists, there is universal agreement that anyone born in the United States is a natural-born citizen, so the law would have had no effect upon those people.

    There is wide agreement, but not universal agreement, that anyone born a U.S. citizen at birth is a natural born citizen, so the law most likely would have had no effect upon those people.

    The third clause in the proposed statute, declaring that anyone born abroad but adopted by a U.S. citizen prior to the age of 18 is a natural born citizen, would in fact have been a radical departure from the generally-accepted meaning of natural born citizen.

  172. avatar
    Dave January 16, 2011 at 11:34 pm #

    BTW, the Constitutional Hydrologist has announced… well, let’s hear it in her own words:

    I will tell you that I felt concerned enough for my safety to have quickly relocated out of ND. I will be residing in a constitutional carry state (open and concealed carry without a permit) and I will be packing at all times.

    I can’t help wondering why, if she really feels the need to carry concealed, she finds it preferable to move to a state that doesn’t require a permit, instead of just staying in ND and getting a permit.

  173. avatar
    Daniel January 16, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    Great, that’s all we need. More nutbags packing heat.

  174. avatar
    Black Lion January 16, 2011 at 11:52 pm #

    More Michelle Obama derangement…

    Conservatives Go Off On Michelle Obama For… Preaching Tolerance?
    January 14, 2011 10:38 pm ET by Solange Uwimana

    In the latest entry in our ever-expanding Obama Derangement Syndrome series, the right-wing media are attacking Michelle Obama for a letter she addressed to parents in the wake of the tragic shooting in Tucson, Arizona. Conservatives are professing outrage that Obama would dare speak of “tolerance” following a shooting rampage that left six dead and over a dozen wounded, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

    Gateway Pundit blogger Jim Hoft, who’s not known for turning away any opportunity to attack the Obamas, led the charge this morning with a post titled, “Michelle Obama: We Can Use the Tucson Shootings to Teach Our Children Tolerance …Huh?” Hoft writes: “Some disturbed mental case goes on a shooting spree at a Safeway after months and years of bizarre behavior and Michelle Obama wants your kids to be more tolerant? That’s so not right.”

    In the letter, Michelle Obama writes that the tragedy “makes us think about what an event like this says about the world we live in — and the world in which our children will grow up,” and tells parents that it provides “an opportunity for us as parents to teach some valuable lessons — about the character of our country, about the values we hold dear, and about finding hope at a time when it seems far away.”

    She goes on to write:

    We can teach our children that here in America, we embrace each other, and support each other, in times of crisis. And we can help them do that in their own small way — whether it’s by sending a letter, or saying a prayer, or just keeping the victims and their families in their thoughts.

    We can teach them the value of tolerance — the practice of assuming the best, rather than the worst, about those around us. We can teach them to give others the benefit of the doubt, particularly those with whom they disagree.

    We can also teach our children about the tremendous sacrifices made by the men and women who serve our country and by their families. We can explain to them that although we might not always agree with those who represent us, anyone who enters public life does so because they love their country and want to serve it.

    That was apparently too much for Rush Limbaugh, who replied: “I don’t know if she got the message that her husband attempted in his inimitable, exclusive, and brilliant manner Wednesday night.”

    While reading excerpts from the letter about children asking difficult questions in the wake of the tragedy, Limbaugh said:

    LIMBAUGH: What’s so hard to answer about this? Why did this happen? Because there are crazy people in the world. That’s why it happened. There are crazy people in the world. You might want to add: There are crazy people in the world who don’t yet realize the brilliance of your father. But there are crazy people in the world.

    […]

    LIMBAUGH: Answers are very simple. There are crazy people in the world that need to be institutionalized. You might want to throw in that the Republicans made them that way if that makes you feel better but just throw in that they are some crazy people that need to be institutionalized.

    […]

    LIMBAUGH: What does any of this got to do with children being afraid because of what happened in Tucson? See, Michelle did not get the memo from — I guess she wasn’t even listening to her husband make the speech where she said, all — where he said, all this doesn’t matter, but — he did have a “but” in there. He always has a “but,” which cancels out whatever has preceded the “but.”

    Limbaugh later said: “So we can help our children by giving them the criminally false impression that the healthy political debate in this country led to this bloodshed. Is that what Mrs. Obama is continuing to say here?”

    In a January 14 post on the Sweetness & Light blog titled, “Michelle: Killings Show Need For Tolerance,” Steve Gilbert also attacked Michelle Obama, asking: “What lessons? That we need to institutionalize people who act crazy?” Gilbert continued: “This is outrageous. … Mr. Obama had better have a talk with his wife. And he had better disabuse his daughters, before they end up as woefully deluded as the Kennedy children about who killed their father and uncle.”

    During her Fox News show, Megyn Kelly said “no one” is going to question Michelle Obama for reaching out to parents to ask them to teach tolerance. However, she then suggested it was “disingenuous” of the first lady to say “tolerance” is the “lesson that we should take away from what we saw in Tucson.” Radio talk host Chris Plante agreed, saying “it’s pretty clear that that’s not the lesson we should take away” and that we should be focusing on civility instead. He further stated that Michelle Obama is “perpetuat[ing]” the “false narrative” that “all of the rough language comes from one side of the ideological aisle and anybody who’s paying attention clearly knows that that’s not the case.” Kelly replied:

    KELLY: A lot of folks have been saying, even folks on the right, that they’re happy to have that discussion. If you want to shift the discussion to civility in politics, then we can have that discussion but they — what they’ve objected to is the linkage, like, the need for that discussion, tying it to the Tucson shootings. And the president was very careful not to do that when he spoke in Tucson the other night.

    What’s interesting about Michelle Obama’s letter is she seems less careful because she’s talking about the lessons we need to teach our children in the wake of that tragedy and she says that tolerance and giving others the benefit of the doubt, even those with whom you disagree, are two of the lessons. And I, again, I mean, those are good things to teach your children, but the question is, is she sort of throwing critics on the left a bone by saying, indeed those are actual lessons that we should have learned from Saturday?

    Kelly went on to say: “I thought that the president’s remarks nicely moved us past trying to blame political ideology for these acts, as opposed to mental illness. And the question for you is simply whether the first lady means to take us back to that place or whether that’s just an unfair tie that we’re ascribing to that letter.” Plante replied in part that while Michelle Obama preaching “tolerance is a good thing,” “they should tolerate Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh and Fox News a little more and stop trying to accuse people of having blood on their hands for the actions of a lone gunman.” He continued:

    PLANTE: It really has become pretty outrageous. Is Jodie Foster now responsible for the shooting of President Reagan? Are the Beatles now responsible for the Tate-LaBianca murders. At least there is actual linkage in those two cases, which is something that can’t be said about this case — which means that, in the end, it’s a terrible slander and it is being perpetuated by this letter at least to some degree or another.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101140057

  175. avatar
    G January 17, 2011 at 2:03 am #

    Black Lion: The Post & Email contends that any statement made without supporting documentation or evidence can be considered nothing more than rumor, innuendo, or falsehood of which many in the mainstream media are guilty. Journalism is asking questions and presenting factual answers to them, not editorializing.”

    Oh, another irony meter explodes! In other words, the P&E just explained why what they do is NOT journalism. The only thing they trade in is rumor, innuendo, and falsehood.

  176. avatar
    G January 17, 2011 at 2:18 am #

    Black Lion: More Michelle Obama derangement…

    Conservatives Go Off On Michelle Obama For… Preaching Tolerance?
    January 14, 2011 10:38 pm ET by Solange Uwimana

    Wow. Limbaugh and those other folks are just frothing insane! NOTHING in Michelle Obama’s letter places blame on any particular group. Her letter is as neutral a statement as can be made and simply asks for people to be respectful of each other.

    Only those who truly know they are guilty of acting badly would take such a neutral statement as a personal attack on themselves. It speaks volumes when certain voices react as angry victims against any general neutral plea towards mere rational, responsible adult behavior…

  177. avatar
    charo January 17, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    Does anyone have a copy of Dreams from My Father to verify the accuracy of the quote within this statement?

    “Unlike my mum,” Obama tells his half-sister Auma in Dreams, “Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was.” …

    There is no page number given so one would have to be familiar with the contents of the book. It is from the following link (which is not listed on the bad or ugly list on Doc’s home page so I am providing it)

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/01/what_obama_has_said_about_his.html

  178. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 17, 2011 at 11:06 am #

    charo: Does anyone have a copy of Dreams from My Father to verify the accuracy of the quote within this statement?

    The quote is authentic. The American Thinker should be on the ugly list.

  179. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 17, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    charo: “Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was

    The quote is indeed authentic but American thinker’s narrative is a lie. It wasn’t Obama speaking in the passage but rather Auma.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=HRCHJp-V0QUC&pg=PA345&lpg=PA345&dq=dreams+from+my+father+%E2%80%9CRuth+has+all+the+documents+needed+to+prove+who+Mark%E2%80%99s+father+was%22&source=bl&ots=PFey724LZH&sig=canXUigeG1DdxWd09ktF6oQ36z8&hl=en&ei=2m40TYqtOYK8lQeh7fz7CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

    The key to figure out who is talking is this bit: She looked away for a moment, then broke out with a short, bitter laughter.

    “What’s so funny?” <—– This is Obama speaking
    This is then followed by Auma speaking
    "I was thinking about how life is so strange. You know, as soon as the Old Man died, the lawyers contacted all those who might have a claim to inheritance. Unlike my mum, Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was. So of all of the Old Man's kids, Mark's claim is the only one uncontested"

    That is the full passage. As you can see from the passage it was Auma speaking about not having all the documentation not Obama. American Thinker can't read or knowingly distorted the passage and added words to it

  180. avatar
    charo January 17, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    The quote is indeed authentic but American thinker’s narrative is a lie.It wasn’t Obama speaking in the passage but rather Auma.http://books.google.com/books?id=HRCHJp-V0QUC&pg=PA345&lpg=PA345&dq=dreams+from+my+father+%E2%80%9CRuth+has+all+the+documents+needed+to+prove+who+Mark%E2%80%99s+father+was%22&source=bl&ots=PFey724LZH&sig=canXUigeG1DdxWd09ktF6oQ36z8&hl=en&ei=2m40TYqtOYK8lQeh7fz7CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=falseThe key to figure out who is talking is this bit:She looked away for a moment, then broke out with a short, bitter laughter.“What’s so funny?” <—– This is Obama speaking
    This is then followed by Auma speaking
    “I was thinking about how life is so strange.You know, as soon as the Old Man died, the lawyers contacted all those who might have a claim to inheritance.Unlike my mum, Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was.So of all of the Old Man’s kids, Mark’s claim is the only one uncontested”That is the full passage.As you can see from the passage it was Auma speaking about not having all the documentation not Obama.American Thinker can’t read or knowingly distorted the passage and added words to it

    When I didn’t see a page number, it seemed suspicious. (The link you gave is missing the prior page, and I would have liked to have seen the context, but nonetheless, those quoted words are Auma’s.) More importantly, if the comment as he wrote it were true, then there would be no purpose to write a whole book.

  181. avatar
    Rickey January 17, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    charo:
    When I didn’t see a page number, it seemed suspicious.(The link you gave is missing the prior page, and I would have liked to have seen the context, but nonetheless, those quotedwords are Auma’s.)More importantly, if the comment as he wrote it were true, then there would be no purpose to write a whole book.

    I can help a little.

    Auma is Obama’s half-sister. Mark is Mark Okoth Obama Ndesandjo, half-brother to both Auma and Barack Obama. All three are children of Barack Obama Sr., but all three have different mothers. Ruth is Mark’s mother. The “Old Man” in the conversation is their father. Obama has three other half-brothers and two more “alleged” half brothers.

    Obama and Auma were discussing the fact that Mark’s mother, Ruth, had documentation that Barack Sr. was Mark’s father, but Auma’s mother did not have documentation that Barack Sr. was Auma’s father. Therefore, there were some issues about who was entitled to the inheritance.

    American Thinker has completely distorted the meaning of the passage.

  182. avatar
    obsolete January 17, 2011 at 3:43 pm #

    Fake Squeeky the political assassin advocate is getting desperate, and should soon be looking for a new blog to haunt.
    I did venture over and read her new article. Here is a summary so you don’t have to visit her trash can of a blog:

    1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- Plus, Sarah Palin is a victim just like MEEEE!
    6. I AM TOO really smart!
    7- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

  183. avatar
    Sef January 17, 2011 at 4:31 pm #

    obsolete: Fake Squeeky the political assassin advocate is getting desperate, and should soon be looking for a new blog to haunt.
    I did venture over and read her new article. Here is a summary so you don’t have to visit her trash can of a blog:1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- Sarah Palin is really cool guys!
    5- Plus, Sarah Palin is a victim just like MEEEE!
    6. I AM TOO really smart!
    7- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

    Maybe she would enjoy a visit from an FBI malebeast.

  184. avatar
    Black Lion January 17, 2011 at 5:48 pm #

    G: Wow. Limbaugh and those other folks are just frothing insane! NOTHING in Michelle Obama’s letter places blame on any particular group. Her letter is as neutral a statement as can be made and simply asks for people to be respectful of each other.Only those who truly know they are guilty of acting badly would take such a neutral statement as a personal attack on themselves. It speaks volumes when certain voices react as angry victims against any general neutral plea towards mere rational, responsible adult behavior…

    G, Agreed….This just shows how no matter what the President and the Mrs. Obama does they right will always attack and vilify him for whatever reason….

  185. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 17, 2011 at 6:12 pm #

    Oh, I am soooo happy I read things and DON’T ignore stuff!!! Because I never would have caught you Obots admitting this is a issue that needs to be resolved!!! Then, I couldn’t have busted you out in this Internet Article!!!

    http://squeekyfromm.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/eligibility-extortion-and-blackmail-the-new-obama-tactic/

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  186. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 17, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    Sef:
    Maybe she would enjoy a visit from an FBI malebeast.

    OH, I am sorry I did not see your Internet threat to tell lies to federal agents about me!!! But anyway, about “haunting” somebody’s blog. I won’t “haunt” here. I will just pop in and out when there are “Open Threads” and post links to my new articles so you can ignore them. Because to me, it is sooo funny that I have just debated Obots into speechlessness!!! Plus it is funny to me, that when I accuse you of having a Lemming mentality, and some of you say you don’t, that you act just like lemmings and all ignore me as a group!!!

    Plus, it is not like many of you ever had anything smart to say anyway. But OH I am just loving the way that the non-issue here on this thread, is just such a big issue on another thread!!! And all the “frothy insanity” that is just soooo uni-directional!!! “Open-minded Obots” are one of those oxymoron things!!!

    Be sure to keep your bow ties near and your nikes clean for the Mother Ship!!! (my friend Fabia thought of that one!)

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  187. avatar
    Sef January 17, 2011 at 6:47 pm #

    Sef:
    Maybe she would enjoy a visit from an FBI malebeast.

    The FBI also has femalebeasts.

  188. avatar
    Black Lion January 18, 2011 at 10:29 am #

    I guess Simple Sarah did not come off looking “Presidential” with her response last week to the AZ shootings….

    “Sarah Palin’s response to Arizona shooting earned thumbs down from most Americans: survey

    Sarah Palin’s response to the deadly Arizona shootings fell flat with many Americans – including many of her supporters, according to a new poll.
    Only 30% of those surveyed in a new ABC News-Washington Post poll approved of the way Palin responded to the deadly rampage, while 78% approved of the way President Obama handled it.
    Forty-six percent of people surveyed disapproved with the way Palin handled the situation.
    Even John McCain, the President’s opponent in the 2008 race, commended his political opponent on his actions following the massacre.
    “We are Americans and fellow human beings, and that shared distinction is so much more important than the disputes that invigorate our noisy, rough-and-tumble political culture,” he wrote in an editorial for the Washington Post on Sunday. “That is what I heard the President say on Wednesday evening. I commend and thank him for it.”
    While many politicians called for unity after the national tragedy, Palin found herself at the center of a partisan debate after a 2010 ad created by her camp was criticized for depicting Gabrielle Giffords’ district with cross-hairs over it, and many people blamed heated rhetoric for the attempted assassination.
    Things got worse for Palin when she started attacking the media and critics through material posted on her website and Facebook account.
    “Journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn,” she wrote. “That is reprehensible.”
    The term “blood libel” has historically been used to refer to the false claim that Jews used the blood of Christian children for rituals.
    According to the ABC-Post poll released on Monday, the former Alaska governor even disappointed her own party. Less than half of Republicans surveyed said they approved of the way she handled the shootings.
    The failure to connect with people in the face of tragedy may deeply hurt her presidential goals if she has them, pundits said.
    “Palin, who is so expert in capturing the feelings, frustrations and hopes of a certain segment of the population, demonstrated no range,” Slate columnist John Dickerson wrote. “She offered nothing to meet this moment. Her remarks were defensive, illogical, and distracting.”
    Palin, however, is never without a strong group of supporters.
    Shortly after the shootings, Fox News contributor Glenn Beck emailed her to see how she was holding up after the barrage of criticism and even death threats he said she received. On Monday night, she will appear on Sean Hannity’s show in what could be a first step to rebuilding her image.
    Hannity, a conservative commentator, has fiercely defended Palin in light of her latest controversy.
    “If you are being accused of being an accessory to murder, don’t you think you are going to respond? Of course,” he said on “Fox and Friends” Monday morning.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/01/18/2011-01-18_liberals_cant_silence_me__defiant_palin.html

  189. avatar
    Sef January 18, 2011 at 11:32 am #

    Black Lion: I guess Simple Sarah did not come off looking “Presidential” with her response last week to the AZ shootings….

    One thing is crystal clear about Sister Sarah & her ilk. She is the type who is guaranteed to self-destruct. The events since ’08 have not dis-proven this.

  190. avatar
    Black Lion January 18, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    Great wrap up from Keith Olbermann regarding this issue…If you have the chance read the transacript or watch the video….

    Keith Olbermann Special Comment: 9 Days Have Passed & The Willful Blindness Hasn’t Even Slowed Down

    “They said it was everybody else’s fault. And they often said it with more violence than before.
    In approximate chronological order:

    Last Monday, while most on both sides were looking askance at the wealth of bogus documents that now traditionally follow these things, a writer at the discredited Breitbart site posted the headline, “Whoops! This Changes Things — Loughner’s Hero Was Barack Obama.”

    Jim Hoft breathlessly cited a reference on the Free Republic’ site to a Facebook page supposedly belonging to Jared Lee Loughner, complete with references to the quote “racist Tea Party” and “fight the Right,” and identifying his ” heroes” as Obama, Chavez, Che Guevara, and Saul Alinsky.

    Mr. Hoft never noticed that on the alleged Loughner facebook page, the word “tyrrany” is misspelled and so is the name Loughner.”

    http://kaystreet.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/keith-olbermann-special-comment-9-days-have-passed-the-willful-blindness-hasnt-even-slowed-down/

  191. avatar
    Lupin January 18, 2011 at 12:25 pm #

    Black Lion: identifying his ” heroes” as Obama, Chavez, Che Guevara, and Saul Alinsky.

    They really are ignoramuses. They respond to talking points like trained seals to a fish, without any understanding whatsoever of the issues involved.

    None of these four names have rally anything in common ideologically — even Chavez and Guevara, the closes of the four, is a long stretch.

    If their Overlords told them to include Babar in the list (left-wing African monarch with ties to France) they would just go ahead and brainlessly add him to the list.

    It really is pathetic. Frankly, I don’t know any other country in the world that has political debates at that level.

  192. avatar
    Rickey January 18, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    Cert denied.

    No. 10-678
    Title:
    Gregory S. Hollister, Petitioner
    v.
    Barry Soetoro, et al.
    Docketed: November 23, 2010
    Lower Ct: United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit
    Case Nos.: (09-5080)
    Decision Date: March 22, 2010
    Rehearing Denied: August 23, 2010

    ~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~Proceedings and Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Nov 22 2010 Petition for a writ of certiorari filed. (Response due December 23, 2010)
    Nov 22 2010 Appendix of Gregory S. Hollister filed. (Volumes I, II, III)
    Dec 22 2010 Waiver of right of respondents Barry Soetoro, et al. to respond filed.
    Dec 29 2010 DISTRIBUTED for Conference of January 14, 2011.
    Dec 30 2010 Request for recusal received from petitioner.
    Jan 18 2011 Petition DENIED.

  193. avatar
    Bovril January 18, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

    Lupin: If their Overlords told them to include Babar in the list (left-wing African monarch with ties to France) they would just go ahead and brainlessly add him to the list.

    Knowing bIrfoons that then bugger that up and send the flying monkey brigade after Babar the Elephant

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babar_the_Elephant

  194. avatar
    Rickey January 18, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    How dishonest is Joseph Farah? WND put up this headline on its website today:

    Arizona statute could endanger Giffords’ hold on seat
    Office shall be deemed vacant if unable to ‘discharge duties for 3 consecutive months’

    The WND headline links to a Washington Post article which says just the opposite.

    It seems that Arizona has a statute which says that if a public officeholder fails to perform his or her duties for three consecutive months, the office shall be deemed vacant and a special election is held. However, the Post article says that the statute doesn’t apply to Federal officeholders:

    Paul Bender, a constitutional scholar and a former dean of the Arizona State University College of Law, said that any determination of a vacancy would have to be made by Congress.

    “The state has no right to say what the duties of a congresswoman are,” he said. “The state has no right to say when the office becomes vacant.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/17/AR2011011702542.html?hpid=topnews

  195. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 18, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    Rickey: How dishonest is Joseph Farah? WND put up this headline on its website today:Arizona statute could endanger Giffords’ hold on seatOffice shall be deemed vacant if unable to discharge duties for 3 consecutive months’The WND headline links to a Washington Post article which says just the opposite.It seems that Arizona has a statute which says that if a public officeholder fails to perform his or her duties for three consecutive months, the office shall be deemed vacant and a special election is held. However, the Post article says that the statute doesn’t apply to Federal officeholders:Paul Bender, a constitutional scholar and a former dean of the Arizona State University College of Law, said that any determination of a vacancy would have to be made by Congress.“The state has no right to say what the duties of a congresswoman are,” he said. “The state has no right to say when the office becomes vacant.” http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/17/AR2011011702542.html?hpid=topnews

    Oh Rickey ye of little pornstache, you know damned well that the Statutes say whatever Farrah decides they say.

  196. avatar
    Black Lion January 18, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    What? Joey Farah and WND lie? Say it isn’t so…lol. The more startling revelation would be if WND actually told the truth……

    Anyway how pathetic are the birthers….Look how they recycle debunked information from 7 months ago and pretend that it is breaking news….

    Paula
    January 18, 2011 at 6:38 am
    Found this on FreeRepublic along with these comments:

    http://www.morningliberty.com/2010/06/27/barry-soetoro-new-evidence-obama-can-run-but-he-cant-hide-from-himself-lies-and-bribery-and-forgery-follow-obama/

    This blog (and several others) contain several interesting statements that I have not seen before.

    1) The Obama’s mother was in Mombasa, was not allowed to board a plane to return, went swimming, and then was rushed to Coast General Hospital to give birth August 4 1961, returning to Hawaii four days later where the birth was then registered— as is allowed by Hawaiian law.

    2) A long letter from a Kenyan teacher, also born in 1961, comparing his BC to Obama’s Mombasa BC.

    3) Confirmation that Sir Edward F. Lavender was indeed the colonial registrar for Mombasa in 1961, Source: “Kenya Dominion Record 4667 Australian library.”

    Food for thought? Can anyone research any of this further?

    In any case, a very interesting read …

    http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/16/whats-the-deal/

    Even more funny are the number of actually posters….You basically have about 5 or 6 hardcore ones lead by Papoose, Atlas Daughter, and Quantam Leap….

  197. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 18, 2011 at 4:30 pm #

    Tee Hee! Maybe you Obots should start closer to home. Here is another Internet Article by a person “of import:” who notes 56% of Democrats believe the Palin Map Myth!!!

    http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/01/56-of-democrats-believe-palin-map-myth.html

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  198. avatar
    Black Lion January 18, 2011 at 4:44 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: Tee Hee! Maybe you Obots should start closer to home. Here is another Internet Article by a person “of import:” who notes 56% of Democrats believe the Palin Map Myth!!!http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/01/56-of-democrats-believe-palin-map-myth.htmlSqueeky FrommGirl Reporter

    Interesting…But not as interesting as this…

    “But the political news cycle can’t seem to churn these days without some discussion of Palin. And since the former Alaska governor was all over the airwaves Wednesday, several commentators contrasted Palin’s video response — which spoke of “blood libel” perpetrated against her — and Obama’s speech.

    Former Bush speechwriter David Frum said on MSNBC Wednesday night that Palin had grounds to be upset with media coverage linking the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) with controversial rhetoric from the Palin camp — such as a 2010 campaign map that depicted congressional target districts including Giffords’ with gun sights, released the same day that Palin urged supporters not to retreat but “reload.”

    But Frum said such coverage was “not as hurtful as what was done to the people who are the actual victims here. … And you would think that this would be a moment where you could reach beyond your own personal feelings of hurt to something bigger.”

    David Corn of liberal Mother Jones magazine gave less ground to Palin. He said Obama “was wonderfully presidential, gave a marvelous speech, and spoke to really the better nature of our angels across the board,” while Palin “tried to make this whole tragedy about her, and compared the criticism against her to the genocidal persecution of an entire people.”
    ……

    On Thursday morning, other political writers continued noting differences in Obama’s and Palin’s responses.

    The Daily Beast’s Lloyd Grove, in a piece titled “Mourner-in-Chief’s Eulogy Puts Palin to Shame,” pointed out the contrast in settings. The possible 2012 Republican contender “had to serve up her remarks, really a litany of complaints against her critics and political adversaries, while seated in front of a non-working stone fireplace, apparently at her home in Wasilla—a claustrophobic setting framed by an outsize American flag.”

    Obama, he wrote, “got to deliver his affecting half-hour of heartfelt reflection and soulful inspiration — repeatedly interrupted by standing ovations — to an arena at the University of Arizona filled to the rafters with 14,000 mourners” including leading political figures, Giffords’ doctors and her husband, astronaut Mark Kelly.

    And Politico’s Jonathan Martin wrote Thursday on how “Obama [took] the opportunity Palin missed.”

    “At sunrise in the East on Wednesday, Sarah Palin demonstrated that she has little interest — or capacity — in moving beyond her brand of grievance-based politics,” Martin wrote. “And at sundown in the West, Barack Obama reminded even his critics of his ability to rally disparate Americans around a message of reconciliation.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110113/ts_yblog_thecutline/media-gives-obama-high-marks-for-arizona-speech-contrast-with-palins-response

    “President Barack Obama’s approval ratings have surged in two polls conducted since he delivered his well-received speech on the Tucson shooting – with even the vast majority of Republicans giving the president high marks for how he’s handled the tragedy.

    In a Washington Post-ABC News poll released Tuesday morning, 54 percent of Americans said they approve of how Obama is doing his job, while 43 percent disapprove.

    His approval rating is the highest it’s been in the poll since April, while his disapproval was last as low as 43 percent in March 2010. In December, 49 percent of Americans surveyed for the Post-ABC poll approved of Obama’s performance, while 47 percent disapproved.

    A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey also released Tuesday pegged the president’s approval rating at 53 percent and his disapproval at 43 percent. In December, the poll showed Americans evenly divided, with his approval and disapproval rates both at 48 percent.”

    http://www.frumforum.com/obamas-poll-numbers-rise

  199. avatar
    Greg January 18, 2011 at 4:53 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: Tee Hee! Maybe you Obots should start closer to home. Here is another Internet Article by a person “of import:” who notes 56% of Democrats believe the Palin Map Myth!!!http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/01/56-of-democrats-believe-palin-map-myth.htmlSqueeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Doesn’t that mean Palin has to come out and prove she wasn’t involved. I mean, that’s the conclusion you take from some number of Americans believing Obama was born somewhere other than Hawaii (or thinking Hawaii isn’t part of the US.)

    How many millions of Americans believe this falsehood?

  200. avatar
    Daniel January 18, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    I think we need some rat traps in here. I keep hearing a Squeaking noise.

    You know how those squeaky things can spread disease.

  201. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 18, 2011 at 10:04 pm #

    Squeek, squeek: “Hawaii Governor Can’t Find Obama Birth Ceritificate???” It’s on Drudge.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=252833

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  202. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 18, 2011 at 10:16 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: Squeek, squeek:“Hawaii Governor Can’t Find Obama Birth Certificate???” It’s on Drudge.http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=252833Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Squeek, squeek! I thought Frujinko had seen it???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  203. avatar
    Whatever4 January 18, 2011 at 11:34 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: Squeek, squeek:“Hawaii Governor Can’t Find Obama Birth Ceritificate???” It’s on Drudge.http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=252833Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Reading the article carefully, I believe he’s talking about the Index Data, which can be released with no problem. Anything else would fall under restricted records.

  204. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 19, 2011 at 12:04 am #

    I suspect a Long Form or something will show up, yet. Abercrombie CAN’T not follow through on his promise. Personally, I still think the most important question is WHY Obama hasn’t coughed something up.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    .

  205. avatar
    Greg January 19, 2011 at 12:21 am #

    Personally, I still think the most important question is WHY Obama hasn’t coughed something up.

    Do you remember Dan Burton? Google “Dan Burton Watermelon” or “Dan Burton Pumpkin” (a recent New Yorker article suggested the actual fruit involved was uncertain). From Wikipedia, here’s a snippet about Burton’s pumpkin fetish:

    Rep. Burton led the House inquiry into the death of Vincent Foster; he was convinced that Foster was murdered and urged extensive investigation into the possible involvement of the Clintons. Burton gained attention for re-enacting the alleged crime in his backyard with his own pistol and a pumpkin standing in for Foster’s head. After hearings into Democratic fundraising (see section below) began, a Democratic National Committee staffer appeared in a pumpkin suit with a button that read, “Don’t shoot.”

    Birthers are Obama’s Dan Burton. You’re better than Dan Burton, though, since you are completely non-credible! Burton had subpoena power. You guys don’t. When a Republican can be credibly linked to birthers, he becomes impotent and unelectable. Senator JD Hayworth? Not after the devastating ads run by McCain (“our economy is in shambles and Hayworth wastes his time on stupid conspiracy theories?”).

    Put yourself in Obama’s shoes.

    He’s got enemies who make the gang who couldn’t shoot straight look like constitutional lawyers.
    He’s published the official document he got when he sent his money in to get a birth certificate.
    The State of Hawaii has vouched for his birth in the state, several times.
    The mainstream media, from MSNBC to Fox, ostracizing. rightly, anyone who raises the issue.
    The people who think he wasn’t born here are the ones who think he’s a commie pinko socialist Nazi out to kill their grandparents.

    Honestly, if Obama had to choose his enemies, he couldn’t have done a better job than the birthers. He’d love to see more of you, in fact, and less of the tea-partiers.

    If I were you, I’d wonder if I hadn’t been played this whole time. I’d be asking myself if I could have been investigating Rezko this whole time. If Abercrombie wasn’t putting this possibility out there to give some credence to the birthers just so they could be smacked down again.

  206. avatar
    G January 19, 2011 at 2:57 am #

    Whatever4:
    Reading the article carefully, I believe he’s talking about the Index Data, which can be released with no problem. Anything else would fall under restricted records.

    Yeah, but it is a WND article, so I’d take the whole thing with a grain of salt. They’ve been so full of bunk and manufactured l.i.e.s. in the past, that they are just nowhere close to a credible source. They are nothing but a smear and propaganda tank with an agenda.

    I’ll wait for real news organizations to interview Abercrombie again. To date, any actual reports and interviews of him that use his own words instead of just adding their own speculative interpretation have only shown that he’s promised to merely inquire into what can be provided.

    If he asks those questions and is told that certain info can’t be released…well, that’s an answer to the question too.

  207. avatar
    Bovril January 19, 2011 at 8:26 am #

    G, W4

    WND always leads it’s headlines with an outright lie and THEN when you read it (I wonder if the OP actualy read it..?) says nothing of the sort.

    As usual with old Corsi the ACTUAL write up is a tissue of supposition and BS.

    The Governor had a chat with ANOTHER paper not WND (that’s what pisses Corsi off)

    The interview was NOT about the BS imaginary Birfoon fantasies but the role of the Governor and his tasks ahead

    The ACTUAL Q+A is

    Q: You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plans to release more information regarding President Barack Obama’s birth certificate. How is that coming?

    A: I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.

    (Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

    It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …

    …What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.

    If there is a political agenda then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president.

    The Governor states, simply enough, even for the brain damaged such as Birfoons that the records of birth exist, that he can’t do squat about it as NOTHING WILL EVER SATISFY the insane Birfoon.

  208. avatar
    The Magic M January 19, 2011 at 8:39 am #

    > The people who think he wasn’t born here are the ones who think he’s a commie pinko socialist Nazi out to kill their grandparents.

    You forgot “Muslim who is not even really black”, otherwise it sums up pretty well what the mindset of the average birther comprises.

  209. avatar
    Majority Will January 19, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    Another birther rat’s nest:
    http://weaselzippers.us/2011/01/18/hawaii-governor-actually-we-cant-find-obamas-original-birth-certificate/

    Have at it.

  210. avatar
    G January 19, 2011 at 12:11 pm #

    Bovril: G, W4

    WND always leads it’s headlines with an outright lie and THEN when you read it (I wonder if the OP actualy read it..?) says nothing of the sort.

    As usual with old Corsi the ACTUAL write up is a tissue of supposition and BS.

    The Governor had a chat with ANOTHER paper not WND (that’s what pisses Corsi off)

    The interview was NOT about the BS imaginary Birfoon fantasies but the role of the Governor and his tasks ahead

    The ACTUAL Q+A is

    Thanks Bovril. Do you have links to the source?

  211. avatar
    Daniel January 19, 2011 at 12:14 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: I suspect a Long Form or something will show up, yet. Abercrombie CAN’T not follow through on his promise. Personally, I still think the most important question is WHY Obama hasn’t coughed something up.Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter.

    The most important question is why you keep avoiding the fact that he HAS…

  212. avatar
    Rickey January 19, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    Bovril: G, W4WND always leads it’s headlines with an outright lie and THEN when you read it (I wonder if the OP actualy read it..?) says nothing of the sort.

    WND also had a headline which said that Rep. Giffords could be forced to give up her seat in House if she isn’t able to perform her duties for three consecutive months. However, the story it linked to says just the opposite – the applicable Arizona law only applies to state political offices. The headline has since been pulled from the front page.

  213. avatar
    Majority Will January 19, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    G:
    Thanks Bovril.Do you have links to the source?

    Not to speak for Bovril, of course, but here’s the interview in the Star Advertiser with Governor Neil Abercrombie:

    http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html

  214. avatar
    Black Lion January 19, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    Ridiculous crap from the seditious bunch known as the American Grand Jury AKA “We Hate American because they elected a Black Man President”….The printed nonsense that is too long to post but worth reading to see how they still recycle some of the same debunked information pretending that it is somehow true….

    Below I have posted some excerpts but you need to read the entire article to see how far removed from reality the writer of the article really is…If Doc was here he would have made this its own article…

    http://americangrandjury.org/50-reasons-why-america-should-examine-obamas-past

    50 Reasons WHY America Should Examine Obama’s Past
    January 16th, 2011
    If the American people are ever blessed to have Obama’s secret biography deliberated by an unbiased authority, with higher intelligence, the following will have to be addressed on the merits of legitimacy.

    Essay by Penbrook Johannson

    1. The Definition of “Natural-Born Citizenship”. The U.S. Constitution requires that a presidential candidate be a Natural-Born Citizen in order to be eligible for the office of President.
    ……..

    Therefore, theoretically, Natural-born citizenship, in its purest, ineradicable form, could be measured by three metrics: 1.) Biological conception by two U.S. citizen parents, 2.) birth in a geographic region under the protection of the U.S. Constitution and 3.) maintenance of that citizenship status without any unnatural interruption of parentage, legal process or administrative procedure.

    This means that their citizenship has never been achieved by any legal or administration process at or after birth. Dual citizens and expatriates are not Natural-Born Citizens. Those who lose their Natural-born status by taking the citizenship of another country or denouncing their Natural Born U.S. citizenship cannot regain it. A Natural-born citizen is one who was born within a geographic region under the protections of the U.S. Constitution AND to two U.S. citizen parents, they being either natural-born or legally naturalized through immigration or repatriation. Despite ongoing, unanswered questions about his geographic origins, Obama does not meet the requirements to be a Natural-Born citizen for two possible other reasons: 1.) because his alleged biological father, Barack Obama Sr., was not a U.S. Citizen and 2.) he was adopted by his Muslim, Indonesian step-father, Lolo Soetoro, in the mid 1960s thereby taking Indonesian citizenship, thus forfeiting Natural-born status [which Obama never had such “natural born” status in the first place.. emphasis mine].

    4. Logan Act Violated By Obama. With this mind, we learned, in October, 2008, that American author and columnist, Jerome Corsi was arrested while visiting Kenya during an investigation which revealed that Barack Obama had actively campaigned for and contributed money to Kenya’s Democratic Socialist Orange Party candidate, Raila Odinga, from 2006 to 2008. Corsi had traveled to Kenya and acquired correspondence and documented evidence showing that Odinga, a fellow Luo tribe descendant and alleged paternal cousin of Obama, had entered into a written agreement with the National Muslim Leaders Forum (NAMLEF), a highly influential and radical Kenyan Islamic foundation, seeking Odinga’s support for, among other things, Sharia Law, in exchange for the Islamic group’s support of Odinga’s candidacy. The evidence acquired by Corsi also shows that Obama was aware of this agreement even while he was raising more than a million dollars of American money to support Odinga’s campaign. The Orange Party Movement is the communist opposition party to President, Mwai Kibaki’s Party of National Unity (PNU). Obama’s involvement in the Kenyan election, while an elected official of the U.S., was clearly a violation the Logan Act which prohibits American politicians from influencing or participating in foreign elections. The Obama Administration’s U.S. Attorney General, Eric Holder, has refused to pursue any investigation of Obama’s activities with Odinga in Kenya in 2006 until 2008. In 2008, video of Obama’s speeches on behalf of Odinga surfaced on YouTube and several other websites which clearly show Obama stumping for Odinga.

    5. Suspicious Nomination Certifications. In July, 2009, documents were revealed showing that Obama was never officially certified to run for president under the provisions of the U.S. Constitution, by the Hawaiian Democratic Party.

    8. Hawaiian Certi-Fiction. Shortly after PUMAparty.com began clamoring for a more thorough review of Obama’s Constitutional eligibility, the image of a document containing sparse information about Obama’s alleged birth was posted on the internet by undisclosed sources, from an unknown origin. The image appeared on extreme leftwing websites like the Daily Kos, The Huffington Post and later on two websites claiming to be non-partisan reviewers, Factcheck.org and politifact.com. One of the fact checking sites is sponsored by the Annenberg Foundation from which the Chicago Annenberg Project received a large educational grant. Obama served as the chair on the board of directors for the Chicago Annenberg Project in 2002.

    9. CertificaTION Of Identity, not Natural Birth. The 2008 document image was determined to be created by an unknown source from a digital template form of a Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth” which is a surrogate, independently published, municipal cover document issued to those applying for copies of birth certificates in the state of Hawaii since 2000. In response to Y2K system updates the State of Hawaii began migrating from paper copies of original birth records to digitally created printed documents. The state of Hawaii openly admits to changing its document format under the guise of preventing identity theft.

    11. Department of Hawaiian Native Homelands. The Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth” was found to be so unreliable in clarifying the bearer’s legal and demographic identity that the State of Hawaii’s own Department of Native Homelands refused to accept it as a primary source of identification for its applicants seeking to purchase Hawaiian land reserved for genealogically native Hawaiians.

    12. Hawaii Denies COLB Image. After all was said and done, the State of Hawaii has refused to ever confirm that it issued the 2008 document image. In light of sophisticated, digitally based document imaging technology, the authenticity of the image remains highly questionable, especially without the official endorsement of the Hawaiian Health Department. Some independent reviewers have, unequivocally, determined the image to be a forgery.

    14. Executive Order No. 13489. Obama was ensconced as President on January 20, 2009. Just one day after his inauguration, he signed Executive Order No. 13489 which essentially violates the Freedom of Information Act and prohibits the release of Obama’s personal and presidential records, during and after his presidency, by the National Archives without first being consulted by the National Archives Director and the Attorney General.

    15. LTC Terry Lakin. In April, 2008, after the fraudulent dismissal of more than two dozen civilian court cases which had been filed against Obama attempting to force him to produce original documented evidence of his natal identity, a highly decorated officer with more than 17 years of unblemished service in the U.S. Army brought the Obama eligibility into the active military ranks. Lieutenant Colonel, Dr. Terrence Lakin, an active duty flight surgeon serving the President’s Chief of Staff and working as a commanding ranked physician of a critical care facility, refused to deploy for duty in Afghanistan under his legal right to refuse orders that he, as an officer, believes are illegal. According to Lakin, Barack Obama has not demonstrated provable, documented evidence that he is eligible to hold the office of President and is, therefore, not legally qualified to issue orders to the United States military as Commander In Chief. Lakin’s oath upon becoming an officer is to defend the constitution, not the president. His duty, as an officer to refuse deployment orders he believes are illegal, are legitimate based on clear and concise legal grounds. Despite this fact, however, Lakin pleaded guilty to a circus court under the command of the Obama administration’s military staff, and was sentence to six months in prison and dismissal from the service. He has since been lauded and exalted for his sacrifice and commitment to his duty to defend the Constitution.

    18. Hawaii Violates Federal Guidelines. In the entire 110 year history of the standard, official, federal, U.S. “Certificate of Live Birth” document’s existence, only the state of Hawaii has gone astray from the standard version to such a degree that it actually conceals one’s full natal identity rather than reveals it.

    19. Exploitation of Hawaii’s Lost Culture. Because of its remote, water-locked, geographic characteristics; its tumultuous indigenous history; and a vulnerable culture altered by a transference of sovereignty in the late 1800’s, the Hawaiian islands gained a reputation for maintaining a vague process for documenting immigration, vital events and indigenous population. Historical archives dating between 1890 and 1941 reveal that the Hawaiian Islands served as an unofficial, but widely pursued, sanctuary for thousands of foreign expatriates seeking protection from political persecution in China, Japan, Southeast Asiatic nations, the Middle East and, later, the United States.

    20. Hawaii’s Communist Past. Based on investigations in the 1950’s and 1960’s, a disproportionate concentration of pro-communist activity became a part of Hawaiian culture.

    21. Hawaiian Document Proven Deficient. In August, 2008, a former U.S. Department of Health, Office of Vital Statistics Registrar stated that the Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth” cannot be considered an original birth certificate created at the time of occurrence of the birth because “…it does not contain the signature of the licensed medical professional qualified to determine the characteristics of a live birth in accordance with administrative requirements established by the U.S. Department of Health, National Vital Statistics Division, and it does not contain the name and location of the hospital which issued the original record, which would be a U.S. “Certificate of Live Birth” if the child was born in the United States.”

    22. Hawaii’s Permission To Violate Federal Law.The law permits anyone born to parents who claimed Hawaii as their residence within one year of their birth, at any time before or after the enactment of the law, regardless of the actual location of the birth, to receive an original birth record which states that the location of birth is Hawaii, and, therefore, occurred in the U.S. Hawaiian lawmakers have confirmed that the law is not constrained to the date of birth. It is applicable to the date of application for the certificate. This means this law would enable Obama, anytime after the age of 21 to apply for and receive a newly created original Hawaiian birth certificate after providing evidence that his mother or father merely resided in Hawaii for one year prior to his birth.

    24. Obama Loses U.S. Citizenship. Barack Obama claims to have lived in Indonesia with his mother from approximately 1967 to 1971 where he assumed the surname of his step father, Lolo Soetoro and became a citizen of Indonesia. Since Obama became a citizen of Indonesia, he forfeited any claim he may have had to citizenship in the U.S. [ESPECIALLY if that person is trying to claim “Natural Born” citizenship and they run for the Office of the Presidency or Vice-Presidency — emphasis mine].

    27. Dunham Too Young To Confer Citizenship. Ann Dunham turned 19 years old in November, 1961, almost four months after Obama was allegedly born in August, 1961. Citizenship laws in effect in the U.S. in 1961 required the mother of a child born outside the U.S., to a foreign father, to have lived in the U.S. for 14 consecutive years, five of which had to be after the age of 14.

    28. Hospital Mystery. No official records have ever been provided from any authoritative source to prove that Barack Obama was born in Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women & Children.

    29. Obama’s Use of Multiple Social Security Numbers. In 2010, Ohio licensed private investigator Susan Daniels and Colorado private investigator John Sampson revealed that President Obama is using a Social Security number set aside for applicants in Connecticut while there is no record he ever had a mailing address in the state. In addition, the records indicate the number was issued between 1977 and 1979, not 1961 at the time of Obama’s birth.

    30. Obama’s Father Not a U.S. Citizen. Obama’s alleged father was a Kenyan national with citizenship in Great Britain…..The Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth” which has been misrepresented as the federally accepted, official document issued by the state of Hawaii for Barack Obama’s birth shows Obama’s father’s race as “African”. Unfortunately, this term violates the U.S. Department of Health’s acceptable classifications of race for official birth certificates. According to NVSD protocols, Obama Sr. is classified as a “Negro” in 1961, not “African”. The term “African” is not even an option in the NVSD manual.

    31. Obama Marriage Mystery. To date, no documented evidence exists proving that a legal marriage between Barack Obama Sr. and Ann Dunham ever occurred in the U.S. The two were allegedly married in Hawaii in early 1961, after Obama Jr. was allegedly conceived sometime in November, 1960. However, no public announcement, or eyewitness of the marriage or marriage license has ever been found.

    41. Hawaii’s Amazing Legitimate Birth Rate. Both papers also published the nearly two dozen announcements assuming that every child was born to married parents living at the same address, despite the fact that the “1961 Vital Statistics Report of the U.S.: Vol. 1 – Natality” shows that there were 1044 illegitimate births in Hawaii in 1961 in which the father was not identifiable.

    44. No Witnesses of Obama’s Birth Still Alive. To date, no living eyewitness of Obama birth exists. It is assumed that his birth was witnessed by at least three people including his doctor and his mother. However, no documentation of the birth has been provided containing the name of the doctor or eyewitnesses.

    45. Obama’s Radicalism. Obama has lived a life wrought with radicalism. In his book, “Dreams From My Father”, Obama writes, “…I chose my friends carefully, the more politically active black students, the foreign students, the Chicanos, the Marxist professors and structural feminists and punk-rock performance poets.”

    46. The Deaths of Lt. Quarles Harris and Donald Young. Quarles Harris was a key witness in a federal probe into charges that Obama’s passport information was stolen from the State Department, when he was fatally shot in front of a Washington D.C. church. Harris had been working as a contractor at the State Department and was cooperating with federal investigators when he was murdered. In December, 2007, Donald Young was a choir leader at Obama’s church, First Trinity Baptist, and school teacher, who many believe had carnal knowledge of Obama’s past. Young was found shot to death in his Southside Chicago apartment.

    47. Larry Sinclair’s Bizarre Story. Of all the sordid stories circulating about Obama’s past, the one told by Larry Sinclair is the darkest. Sinclair posted a YouTube video alleging that he and President Barack Obama engaged in sexual acts and drug use together in 1999, when Obama was an Illinois State Senator. He claims that then-State Senator Obama procured powdered cocaine for Sinclair, and crack cocaine for himself, which Obama allegedly smoked. Sinclair also alleges that their drug use was followed by sex acts that included Sinclair performing fellatio on Obama.

    49. Tim Adams. In July, 2010, Tim Adams, a senior elections clerk for the city and county of Honolulu Elections Office in 2008, made the stunning claim Barack Obama definitely was not born in Hawaii as the White House maintains, based on information he was told by the Vital Statistics office in Hawaii that there is no original birth record on file for Barack Obama. In a televised interview, Adams reported that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Obama does not even exist in the Aloha State. Adams’ statements conflicted directly with repeated affirmations by public officials in Hawaii that they had seen or had inspected Obama’s birth records that would document his representations that he was born in the state.”There is no birth certificate,” said Adams after leaving his position with the Elections Office and now teaches English at Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green. “It’s like an open secret. There isn’t one. Everyone in the government there knows this. I managed the absentee-ballot office. It was my job to verify the voters’ identity.

  215. avatar
    Bovril January 19, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    Not to forget……..

    51. Presidenting whilst Black
    52. Having a funny furrin name
    53. Being educamated
    54. Having actually used a passport to go to furrin countries with furrin names
    55. Not having dodged military service
    56. Not having Satan’s little helper as VP
    57. Not invading a new furrin country with a furrin name
    58. Still Presidenting whilst Black
    59. Being a Democrat

    And finally, last and most important

    60. Ignoring Birfoons WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

  216. avatar
    Rickey January 19, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    Black Lion: In addition, the records indicate the number was issued between 1977 and 1979, not 1961 at the time of Obama’s birth.

    Those birthers are so ignorant that they don’t realize that Social Security Numbers weren’t issued to infants in 1961.Like most kids of that era, Obama got his SSN when he got his first job, around the time he was 16 – which of course would make it in 1977 or 1978.

  217. avatar
    G January 19, 2011 at 2:47 pm #

    Black Lion: Ridiculous crap from the seditious bunch known as the American Grand Jury AKA “We Hate American because they elected a Black Man President”….The printed nonsense that is too long to post but worth reading to see how they still recycle some of the same debunked information pretending that it is somehow true…

    Wow…just pathetic.

    ALL they did is recycle every long since debunked slander, myth and L.I.E. out there and make a list of them.

    Just more proof of why no one should pay attention to the birthers and no facts or evidence make any difference to them. No matter what proves them wrong, they will hold fast to their utter delusions and endlessly resurrect the same zombie nonsense over and over again.

    Their REAL reasons are the list of #51-59 that Bovril just provided above…

  218. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 19, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    What Abercrombie and me get, that OBOTS don’t get:

    “A: I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.”

    Soooo, let me translate this for the comprehension-impaired Obots:

    “There are a lot people who really don’t think Obama was born here. Outside of Republicans! This can really screw up Obama’s chances in 2012 to get re-elected!!!”

    Which is what your favorite Girl Reporter has been telling you!!!! Soooo, next time you think that us Birthers have been not effective, oh . . . just keep thinking it, OK???

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  219. avatar
    G January 19, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Not to speak for Bovril, of course, but here’s the interview in the Star Advertiser with Governor Neil Abercrombie:http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html

    Thanks for the link!

    And yes, to restate, the full actual context of this original source article covering anything about the birth certificate topic is ONLY this:

    Q: You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plans to release more information regarding President Barack Obama’s birth certificate. How is that coming?

    A: I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.

    (Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

    It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …

    …What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.

    If there is a political agenda then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president.

    So, it just goes to show how WND and other cr*p organizations have twisted out of context and blown way out of proportion anything that was actually said and why it is important to stick to the original sources and not someone’s speculative bloviating recap.

    When looked at the actual words he said, we’re back to this being so far an overblown issue with no promises of anything and no newsworthy “progress” to get excited about.

    Yet birthers are predictably in a lathered tizzy.

    I guess even the briefest mention of the topic is all it takes to get them frantically frothing about. After all, meaningless gossip is all they have going for them.

    Even on the original article, you can see that the comments section has been bombared by the the same few birthers swarming over and over again, throwing all the usual zombie bunk out there.

  220. avatar
    Daniel January 19, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: What Abercrombie and me get, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak, Tee Hee! Tee Hee!Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Damn, gotta rebait those rat traps again. Anybody got a piece of Orly cheese?

  221. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 19, 2011 at 4:04 pm #

    lmao. Another blow to the birthers; this time from Issa

    Issa has tried to draw a line separating events that he considers appropriate subjects for investigation and those which he deems inappropriate. He has criticized his predecessors for wasting time looking into matters involving the Clintons that predated their arrival at the White House, such as the Whitewater and cattle-futures episodes. “These are items that occurred before the President was elected,” Issa told me. “I would not have viewed them as particularly significant.” He added that issues involving Obama’s past are also off limits, such as “the birther question.” Implicit in this rule is that his past should also be left undisturbed.

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/01/24/110124fa_fact_lizza?printable=true

  222. avatar
    Majority Will January 19, 2011 at 4:14 pm #

    G: Yet birthers are predictably in a lathered tizzy.

    Rabid mongrels. Most of them are cowards but I fear there are a few who will do something stupid but hopefully wind up in a secure prison.

  223. avatar
    Dave January 19, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    Some entertainment from Wonkette: An Open Letter To Birthers: Find a New Way To Question Obama’s Eligibility.

    I’m afraid this birth certificate thing is just becoming banal. It’s just not going to sustain itself for two more years. You need new ideas. And I’m here to help.

  224. avatar
    obsolete January 19, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    Hey Squeeky- Here are some valid birther points you should use in your next blog post of useless vomit:

    1- Squeeky approves of political violence.
    2- Democrats deserve to be shot for not being like Squeeky
    3- Dead children isn’t enough to make her (it) reconsider public support of political violence.
    4- links to article that actually says the opposite of what Squeeky claims it says.
    5- “Tee Hee!” and “So There!”

  225. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 19, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    Poor Schizophrenic Fut: On one thread, you are MAD at John Boehner for NOT shutting up Birthers, then on this thread you are GLAD that Mr. Issa IS NOT resolving the Birther question, and presumably shutting up us Birthers. But you have a lot of company here. Maybe you Obots can get a Group Discount on thorazine or something???

    Score 1 for Squeeky!!!

    OH Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  226. avatar
    Joey January 19, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    Darn, darn, darn.
    I was hoping that Congressman Issa would come through for me and that we would all be entertained by 1950s style Joe McCarthyesque-‘there’s commies under my bed’ congressional hearings on Barack Hussein Obama II’s status as a natural born citizen (or lack thereof). This would have made GREAT theater and helped CSPAN III’s ratings immeasurably.

    Boy, I sure hope that Governor Abercrombie’s nominees for Attorney General and Director of Health are confirmed today. The Governor needs to be briefed on what “Index Data” is and the difference between Index Data and birth records!

  227. avatar
    Joey January 19, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    Darn, darn, darn.
    I was hoping that Congressman Issa would come through for me and that we would all be entertained by 1950s style Joe McCarthyesque-’there’s commies under my bed’ congressional hearings on Barack Hussein Obama II’s status as a natural born citizen (or lack thereof). This would have made GREAT theater and helped CSPAN III’s ratings immeasurably.

    Boy, I sure hope that Governor Abercrombie’s nominees for Attorney General and Director of Health are confirmed today. The Governor needs to be briefed on what “Index Data” is and the difference between Index Data and birth records!

  228. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 19, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    Joey: Darn, darn, darn.
    I was hoping that Congressman Issa would come through for me and that we would all be entertained by 1950s style Joe McCarthyesque-’there’s commies under my bed’ congressional hearings on Barack Hussein Obama II’s status as a natural born citizen (or lack thereof). This would have made GREAT theater and helped CSPAN III’s ratings immeasurably.Boy, I sure hope that Governor Abercrombie’s nominees for Attorney General and Director of Health are confirmed today. The Governor needs to be briefed on what “Index Data” is and the difference between Index Data and birth records!

    It’s not commies under your bed anymore, Joey. It’s Kenyan Muslims. lmao

  229. avatar
    Joey January 19, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    “It’s not commies under your bed anymore, Joey. It’s Kenyan Muslims. lmao”

    Same difference! How can a fine, upstanding woman like Hillary Rodham Clinton work for a Kenyan Muslim? And how can REPUBLICANS like Secretary of Defense Bob Gates and Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood work for a Kenyan Muslim, not to mention General Petraeus and Admiral Mike Mullen.
    It defies all logic.

  230. avatar
    G January 19, 2011 at 6:03 pm #

    Dave: Some entertainment from Wonkette: An Open Letter To Birthers: Find a New Way To Question Obama’s Eligibility.

    Hilarious!! LMAO!

  231. avatar
    Majority Will January 19, 2011 at 6:47 pm #

    Record of President Obama’s birth in 1961 is ‘in the archives’: Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie

    Officials in Hawaii have tracked down papers indicating that President Obama was indeed born in their state, according to its new governor.

    Gov. Neil Abercrombie, who took office in December, told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser on Tuesday that “our investigation” indicates there is a recording of his birth.

    “It actually exists in the archives, written down,” he said.

    The new Democratic head of the state vowed when he took office that he would do his best to end the debate over Obama’s birth, which began in 2008 during the presidential campaign.

    “We’ll do what we can as quickly as we can to make it inevitable that only those who wish the President ill, only the ones with a political agenda, will be the ones doing this kind of thing,” Abercrombie told CNN in December. “The President is entitled to the respect of his office and he’s entitled to have his mother and father respected.”

    During that interview, Abercrombie said his goal to combat birthers was a personal one.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/01/19/2011-01-19_record_of_obamas_birth_is_in_the_archives_hawaii_gov.html#ixzz1BWmtFjt0

    Birther scum.

  232. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 19, 2011 at 6:51 pm #

    lol. good one, will. I guess that puts that fire out pretty quickly

  233. avatar
    Majority Will January 19, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    Another idiotic birther blog.

    The inane ramblings of Retired Army Captain Pamela Barnett.

    About:
    http://unlawfulpresident.com/?page_id=237

    Blog:
    http://unlawfulpresident.com/?cat=11

    Nothing at all from Theresa’s “press conference.”
    You’d think at least Kate or Les would have be there.

  234. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 19, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: lol. good one, will. I guess that puts that fire out pretty quickly

    Oh, it has been coughed up, then??? Now, it’s out in PUBLIC???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  235. avatar
    Dave January 19, 2011 at 7:42 pm #

    Squeeky — yes, breaking news, it’s out in public.

    Well, I guess it’s breaking news on a sort of geologic time scale.

  236. avatar
    Daniel January 19, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    This just in, Orly Taitz wants to pin Mr. Lakin…

    From her wubba site;

    Congretional medal of Honor for LTC DR. Lakin

    Posted on | January 18, 2011 | 2 Comments
    alex j rynkiewicz
    Submitted on 2011/01/18 at 6:52am

    dear dr taitz– i have e mailed many republican congressmen and senators and nominated col lakin and dr taitz for the congressional medal of honor on behalf of their defense of the US CONSTITUTION AGAINST OBAMA.PLEASE CONTACT EVERY REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN ON THE JUDICIAL COMMITTEE AND DEMAND THEY INVESTIGATE OBAMA

  237. avatar
    Daniel January 19, 2011 at 7:58 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: Oh, it has been coughed up, then??? Now, it’s out in PUBLIC???Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    Yeah, since 2007…. Duuu-uh

  238. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 19, 2011 at 8:06 pm #

    Daniel: This just in, Orly Taitz wants to pin Mr. Lakin…From her wubba site;Congretional medal of Honor for LTC DR. LakinPosted on | January 18, 2011 | 2 Comments
    alex j rynkiewicz
    Submitted on 2011/01/18 at 6:52amdear dr taitz– i have e mailed many republican congressmen and senators and nominated col lakin and dr taitz for the congressional medal of honor on behalf of their defense of the US CONSTITUTION AGAINST OBAMA.PLEASE CONTACT EVERY REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN ON THE JUDICIAL COMMITTEE AND DEMAND THEY INVESTIGATE OBAMA

    lol. These idiots have no reservations about brandishing their lunacy to the general public, do they? It’s amazing how quickly they forget about the Constitutional rights of the 69.5 million Americans who voted for President Obama in 2008.

  239. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 19, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    OMG, if he was born in Kenya, or not a NBC, then nobody had the “constitutional” right to vote for him in the first place. So those questions are NOT misplaced about WHERE he was born. But still, KISS, is the better way to look at it.

    Plus, I have seen the “Trust Me COLB” before to everybody else. I wanted to know if Neal Abercrombie had coughed up anything or whether there is just some more of that ” I just swear somebody seen it in the files” stuff.

    OH, Obots are sure trusting about stuff, I guess like WMDS in Iraq, too.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  240. avatar
    Majority Will January 19, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    lol. These idiots have no reservations about brandishing their lunacy to the general public, do they? It’s amazing how quickly they forget about the Constitutional rights of the 69.5 million Americans who voted for President Obama in 2008.

    That’s the inherent evil and anti-American narcissism behind these cowardly birther bigots.

  241. avatar
    sarina January 19, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    Now the birthers have several videos on YT claiming that Governor of Hawaii Abercrombie, can’t find Obama’s long form BC!

    Hilarious!

  242. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 19, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    sarina: Now the birthers have several videos on YT claiming that Governor of Hawaii Abercrombie, can’t find Obama’s long form BC!Hilarious!

    They’re nuts

  243. avatar
    Joey January 19, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    Daniel: This just in, Orly Taitz wants to pin Mr. Lakin…From her wubba site;Congretional medal of Honor for LTC DR. LakinPosted on | January 18, 2011 | 2 Commentsalex j rynkiewiczSubmitted on 2011/01/18 at 6:52amdear dr taitz– i have e mailed many republican congressmen and senators and nominated col lakin and dr taitz for the congressional medal of honor on behalf of their defense of the US CONSTITUTION AGAINST OBAMA.PLEASE CONTACT EVERY REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN ON THE JUDICIAL COMMITTEE AND DEMAND THEY INVESTIGATE OBAMA

    Two problems with the above for Orly: Congress can nominate but the PRESIDENT presents the Medal of Honor. If Lieutenant Colonel Lakin was awarded our nation’s highest military award, President Barack Hussein Obama would be presenting it to him.

    2nd Problem: One of the only two active duty Medal of Honor winners, Colonel Gordon Ray “Bird Dog” Roberts testified AGAINST Lieutenant Colonel Lakin at his court martial. Colonel Roberts presented some of the most damning testimony (he was Lakin’s commanding officer)in which Colonel Roberts said that Lakin said to him “you had your chance” when Roberts ordered Lakin to his office to explain why he had missed a flight to Charlotte, North Carolina.

  244. avatar
    Dave January 19, 2011 at 8:50 pm #

    Ran into a forum post by Logia (formerly a regular at the now defunct gretawire forum) in which she gets all excited that the President’s constitutional eligibility is on Rep. Issa’s short list for investigation.

    Unfortunately for her, this is not true. She has been confused by an article at Human Events which reflects the priorities of Human Events, not Rep. Issa.

    I should acknowledge that the forum Logia posted this on was set up by our own Squeeky as a service to the community.

  245. avatar
    Majority Will January 19, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    Joey:
    Two problems with the above for Orly: Congress can nominate but the PRESIDENT presents the Medal of Honor. If Lieutenant Colonel Lakin was awarded our nation’s highest military award, President Barack Hussein Obama would be presenting it to him.2nd Problem: One of the only two active duty Medal of Honor winners, Colonel Gordon Ray “Bird Dog” Roberts testified AGAINST Lieutenant Colonel Lakin at his court martial. Colonel Roberts presented some of the most damning testimony (he was Lakin’s commanding officer)in which Colonel Roberts said that Lakin said to him “you had your chance” when Roberts ordered Lakin to his office to explain why he had missed a flight to Charlotte, North Carolina.

    When did common sense, decency or the law ever matter to a crap stain birther?

  246. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 19, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    Dave: Ran into a forum post by Logia (formerly a regular at the now defunct gretawire forum) in which she gets all excited that the President’s constitutional eligibility is on Rep. Issa’s short list for investigation.Unfortunately for her, this is not true. She has been confused by an article at Human Events which reflects the priorities of Human Events, not Rep. Issa.I should acknowledge that the forum Logia posted this on was set up by our own Squeeky as a service to the community.

    I posted an article earlier on this thread where Issa says he’s not going to investigate it. I guess Baghdad Logia didn’t get the memo

  247. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 19, 2011 at 9:15 pm #

    Majority Will:
    When did common sense, decency or the law ever matter to a crap stain birther?

    Ummmmm, never?

  248. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 19, 2011 at 9:47 pm #

    Now Drudge is reporting that “Wait we found them” after the “Hawaii governor can”t find Obama birth certificate”.

    OH, Tee Hee what a mess!!! Supposedly Abercrombie is doing this all on his own as a personal thing, but I soooo bet the grown-up Obots are behind it.

    What I don’t understand is why was it soooo easy for Frujinko to find them, and put them in a safe place as I remember, then soooo hard for Abercrombie to find???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  249. avatar
    Greg January 19, 2011 at 10:13 pm #

    Here’s a clue, Squeaky… WND cited to another article. Read that article and quote me the EXACT thing Abercrombie said that suggests he couldn’t find it.

  250. avatar
    Black Lion January 19, 2011 at 10:23 pm #

    Greg: Here’s a clue, Squeaky… WND cited to another article. Read that article and quote me the EXACT thing Abercrombie said that suggests he couldn’t find it.

    Greg, you are asking Squeeky to manage a coherent thought, which is impossible for her…She needs to believe the fake narrative that the HI COLB does not exist…..Reading the entire article, not a chance….She might learn something, which would be helpful for her…

  251. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 19, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    Greg:

    “(Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

    It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …”

    Which to me also implies that they don’t actually HAVE the thing, only that “it” exists and is a recording of the birth.

    I think if they actually had it, he would said something like, “Oh yeah, we have a copy of it, and I am trying to release it.” I agree that he didn’t definitely say he couldn’t find it, and I would not have headlined the article like either Drudge or WNDm because it is a loose thing to say at this point.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  252. avatar
    G January 19, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: I agree that he didn’t definitely say he couldn’t find it, and I would not have headlined the article like either Drudge or WNDm because it is a loose thing to say at this point.

    On this we agree.

  253. avatar
    Black Lion January 19, 2011 at 10:41 pm #

    I received an email from some conservative site that hates Obama….Guess who shows up…

    http://conservativeactionalerts.com/blog_post/show/1867

    Dear Friends,

    The House has scheduled a vote to REPEAL OBAMACARE today, January 19th!

    This is a critical moment. Liberals are counting on us to shut up—but I am counting on you to get louder.

    Please read this important message and find out how we can repeal OBAMACARE !

    Very sincerely,

    Gary G. Kreep
    Chairman, Republican Majority Campaign

    Dear Friends,

    We’ve just discovered ANOTHER terrible feature of ObamaCare—a hidden, 3.8% Medicare tax on unearned income!

    The House is voting to repeal ObamaCare on Wednesday, January 19th, and we need your urgent support to make sure we get rid of this monstrosity once and for all!

    Please read this important message and find out how you can fight for repeal.

  254. avatar
    Daniel January 19, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: Which to me also implies that they don’t actually HAVE the thing, only that “it” exists and is a recording of the birth.

    Well frikken du-uh. How do you think they know it’s there if they don’t actually have it? And what exactly do you think it’s recorded on, 8-track tape?

    Every time I think I’ve plumbed the depths of stupidity, Someone like Squeeky comes along with an agenda and a shovel.

  255. avatar
    Black Lion January 19, 2011 at 11:07 pm #

    Corsi Puts Words In Hawaii Gov’s Mouth
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    Jerome Corsi’s increasingly fact-free obsession with Barack Obama’s birth certificate continued on its plodding path with a Jan. 18 WorldNetDaily article in which he claimed that Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie “uggested in an interview published today that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.”

    Except Abercrombie did no such thing. As Media Matters noted, Abercrombie actually said that he was told there is a recording of Obama’s birth in the state archives.

    Corsi went on to attack Snopes.org and FactCheck.org — which have respectively debunked claims that the birth certificate released by Obama’s campaign in 2008 is fake — as “two purportedly independent websites that have displayed a strong partisan bias for Obama.” Corsi offers no evidence to support his assertion of “partisan bias.”

    Of course, WND is a unambiguously non-independent website that has displayed a strong partisan bias against Obama, so by Corsi’s own definition, it — and he — can’t be trusted either.

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog/2106318/corsi-puts-words-in-hawaii-govs-mouth/

  256. avatar
    Black Lion January 19, 2011 at 11:09 pm #

    Corsi’s Pathological Quest To Prove Obama Is Kenyan Continues
    January 19, 2011 9:10 am ET by Julie Millican

    WorldNetDaily writer Jerome Corsi really needs to get a new hobby. As you may know, Corsi has an unhealthy obsession with proving that President Obama is not really a U.S. citizen, but rather born in Kenya. (Remember in 2008 when he got detained in Kenya while sniffing around to find proof that Obama was ineligible to run for president and then tried to suggest that Obama himself had him detained? Or when he claimed that Obama has “stolen the identity of a natural-born citizen” and is “using someone else’s Social Security number”? Good times.) Well now, Corsi is claiming that Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie’s categorical statement that the state has records of Obama’s birth translates to “Hawaii governor can’t find Obama birth certificate,” which was all he needed for some Drudge love.

    This past December, Abercrombie announced on CNN that he had his “attorney general and the director of the Department of Health looking at what we can do” in order to create an “open process that will put those who want to disrespect the president and his parents in the proper light, which is to say they have a political agenda not worthy of any good American.” Abercrombie actually knew Obama’s parents, and through his relationship with them, knows that Obama was born in Hawaii. People like Corsi who repeatedly smear the president as some kind of foreign-born imposter really seem to have gotten under his skin.

    Yesterday, the Honolulu Star-Advertiser printed excerpts of an interview Abercrombie gave to the paper’s editorial board. During the interview, the Star-Advertiser asked him about his efforts to release Obama’s birth certificate:

    Q: You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plans to release more information regarding President Barack Obama’s birth certificate. How is that coming?

    A: I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.

    (Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

    It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …

    …What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.

    If there is a political agenda then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president.

    Abercrombie says he is told that the state has proof of Obama’s birth, but in Corsi’s world, that means Abercrombie “can’t find Obama[‘s] birth certificate.” You see, Abercrombie’s statement was actually a “suggest[ion] … that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.”

    Corsi really needs to get some help. His birther obsession is becoming pathological.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101190007

  257. avatar
    Daniel January 19, 2011 at 11:19 pm #

    I have to wonder if the Kreeper is stupid or just blissfully unaware that the bill, which didn’t actually happen today anyways, has zero chance of succeeding?

    a. The repubs don’t have the senate numbers to pass it.

    b. Even if it did miraculously pass. All the Dems come down with the flu on the same day, perhaps. Obama will veto it, and neither house has the numbers to override his veto.

    The Republican house members who were asked admit the chances are practically nil, but they’ll introduce the bill anyways. The Repubs are playing to the ignorant masses again, as usual, grandstanding to win the simpering approval of the Tea Party and Birther nuts. I wonder how much time and money this publicity stunt is going to cost us?

    I’m embarrassed to be a Republican these days.

  258. avatar
    Dave January 20, 2011 at 12:21 am #

    I totally do not understand what the GOP thinks they are accomplishing with this “repeal” bill. Seems like what will come of it is a very public demonstration of their impotence. That’s not going to play well with the “GOP just won big” and “the American people gave us a mandate” talking points.

  259. avatar
    James M January 20, 2011 at 2:58 am #

    Dave: I totally do not understand what the GOP thinks they are accomplishing with this “repeal” bill. Seems like what will come of it is a very public demonstration of their impotence. That’s not going to play well with the “GOP just won big” and “the American people gave us a mandate” talking points.

    There’s the “power of the purse” angle, but that only makes sense if you believe the lie that the health care reform is a socialist, tax-financed affair instead of the 100% market-driven program that it actually is. So if Congress thinks they can withhold money from something and thereby change the law, they are sadly mistaken.

  260. avatar
    Black Lion January 20, 2011 at 10:13 am #

    Record of President Obama’s birth in 1961 is ‘in the archives’: Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie

    Officials in Hawaii have tracked down papers indicating that President Obama was indeed born in their state, according to its new governor.

    Gov. Neil Abercrombie, who took office in December, told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser on Tuesday that “our investigation” indicates there is a recording of his birth.

    “It actually exists in the archives, written down,” he said.

    The new Democratic head of the state vowed when he took office that he would do his best to end the debate over Obama’s birth, which began in 2008 during the presidential campaign.

    “We’ll do what we can as quickly as we can to make it inevitable that only those who wish the President ill, only the ones with a political agenda, will be the ones doing this kind of thing,” Abercrombie told CNN in December. “The President is entitled to the respect of his office and he’s entitled to have his mother and father respected.”

    During that interview, Abercrombie said his goal to combat birthers was a personal one.

    “It’s a matter of principle with me,” the 72-year-old said. “I knew his mom and dad. I was here when he was born. Anybody who wants to ask a question honestly could have had their answer already.”

    On Tuesday, he again promised he would do “what I can do” to publicly verify that records show Obama was born in Hawaii and is a citizen of the United States, making him eligible to be President.

    Birthers insist that the President, born in 1961, is not eligible to be commander in chief. The reasons often vary, and have changed and expanded in the two years since the Internet rumor began.

    Some believe his Certification of Live Birth is fake and he was really born in Kenya. Others argue that Obama is a citizen of the United Kingdom or Indonesia. Most theories have been dismissed by many in public office and the media, and have been found to be misleading or generally untrue.

    However, the conspiracy theories still thrive, and according to Abercrombie, likely will continue despite whatever evidence that shows him to be a proper U.S. citizen.

    “You’re not going to convince those people because they have a political agenda, or they have minds that go in that kind of direction,” he told CNN. “Conspiratorial theorists are never going to be satisfied. This has gone into another area of political attack.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/01/19/2011-01-19_record_of_obamas_birth_is_in_the_archives_hawaii_gov.html

  261. avatar
    Rickey January 20, 2011 at 10:22 am #

    Black Lion: Corsi’s Pathological Quest To Prove Obama Is Kenyan Continues

    We can’t be entirely sure what Abercrombie actually said, since some of if is paraphrased by the reporter (“Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.”). But my take is that Abercrombie is looking for something which he can release that isn’t protected by Hawaii’s privacy laws – possibly a contemporaneous log where births were recorded when the original birth certificates were filed.

    There is no need for Abercrombie to search for the original birth certificate, because he can’t release that without Obama’s authorization. It’s clear to me that he is looking for something that he can release which doesn’t require Obama’s authorization.

  262. avatar
    obsolete January 20, 2011 at 10:53 am #

    Notice how birthers take two stories/articles Abercrombie says Hawaii has birth record/ Issa says Congress won’t investigate Obama’s past) and twist them and claim they actually say the exact OPPOSITE of what they say! Other birthers link to them (even Drudge) and spread the lie with inaccurate headlines, and no birther bothers to read the actual details. The lie travels around the world before the truth gets its pants on.

    This is the same technique birthers use to read court cases and claim they mean the exact opposite of what they say. (Wong, Etc)

  263. avatar
    Joey January 20, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    Rickey: We can’t be entirely sure what Abercrombie actually said, since some of if is paraphrased by the reporter (“Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.”). But my take is that Abercrombie is looking for something which he can release that isn’t protected by Hawaii’s privacy laws – possibly a contemporaneous log where births were recorded when the original birth certificates were filed. There is no need for Abercrombie to search for the original birth certificate, because he can’t release that without Obama’s authorization. It’s clear to me that he is looking for something that he can release which doesn’t require Obama’s authorization.

    A Hawaii vital record can be released without the permission of the person named on the record to “a person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order from a court of competent jurisdiction.”–Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18(b)(9)

  264. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 20, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    You know I’m starting to think this Cheese guy is Strunk. Same lack of facts, claims he worked for several of the attorneys who filed cases then when questioned he devolved into his racist rants.

    http://weaselzippers.us/2011/01/18/hawaii-governor-actually-we-cant-find-obamas-original-birth-certificate/#comment-31791

  265. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 20, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    Popcorn! More popcorn! OH MY! Today’s headlines in England!!!

    “Hawaii governor claims record of Obama’s birth ‘exists in archives’ but can’t produce the vital document”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BakJm5SA

    But it must because Frujinko said she saw the ORIGINAL birth certificate, right???

    If it isn’t there in the end, remember how I told you Obots how easy it would be for Frujinko to lie about seeing it, and then later if it wasn’t there, act surprised and say, “But I SWEAR it was there when I looked! What cudda happened to it???”

    This is why you need the document in PUBLIC. You just don’t need to rely on people’s word when there is supposedly a document. I hope I have at least taught you that!!!

    Oh, this is getting sooooo interesting! Popcorn! Popcorn! Won’t you Obots just POOP if Abercrombie can’t find it??? Anyway, I still think WHY is more relevant. Which is KISS. The possible reasons why Obama hasn’t coughed it up.

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  266. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 20, 2011 at 2:42 pm #

    Oh, plus this confusion is why I haven’t done a Internet Article on this yet. All this may be part of a plot by Obama where if Abercrombie doesn’t find anything, then Obama can cough up whatever he has without losing face. Because he will be doing to help out a old family friend, not because some sleazy political plan backfired and 58% of Americans ended up with some degree of doubt.

    I guess i could do a Internet Article on that angle ???

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  267. avatar
    obsolete January 20, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    Squeeky the political violence advocate has started the “Frujinko” crap again…

    A complete lack of respect and not-so-subtle racism towards Dr. Fukino. Everyone can easily see why answering to Squeeky’s garbage is a waste of time.

    Don’t feed the racist political assassin fan troll.

  268. avatar
    Black Lion January 20, 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    Someone along the lines as mentally deficent as Squeeky, is the poster over at this site called “follow the clues”….His so called argument, even the subtle change of Dr. Fukino’s name shows the inherent racism and how no birther or Obama hater will ever be satisfied….

    For instanse this is one of his more recent posts regarding the official HI statement by Dr. Fukino that I had posted to refute his nonsense….

    “as though this is the best you can come up with. IF THIS is all you have you are not helping you cause, as this is exactly what I am asserting the state is relying on.. A COMPUTER GENERATED PRINTOUT created from records that were entered decades after obama was already a adult.

    the certificate obama posted is not a historical document. IT MAY be drawn from historical records, but its not itself the historical document, which you are well, WELL aware.

    When Fukino carefully avoids mention of seeing the historical paper birth document created at the time of Obamas birth and instead universally, along with Lingel, Abercrombie, and Okubo, and all use the term ”in the records” in a general sense in its place, you can bet they are using the same non-specific term for a reason.. just as in her testimony, Fukino tries to assert that the modern, COMPUTER GENERATED form is identical to a persons historical birth certificate.

    They are under attorney advice using very carefully selected wording that sounds like they are saying one thing, while in fact they are not truly doing so in a legal sense.

    The statement you post of Fukina giving a legislative statement is doing EXACTLY what I asserted above- she is playing with terms to assert that a computer printout drawn from a database that did not even exist until the mid 1980′s, is the same as a historical document handwritten in 1961 – at least two decades earlier.

    you not only do not make a valid argument, your post confirms they are referring to MODERN DOCUMENTS as being ‘HISTORICAL RECORDS’ knowing full well that the technology to create the modern records was still over 20 years from being invented at the time Obama was born.”

    And……

    follow the clues says:
    January 20, 2011 at 2:52 pm
    ”Bob” says-
    A Computer Generated Printout which is certified by the State of Hawaii and has the seal of Hawaii on it. This is a legal birth certificate in the State of Hawaii and many of the states have switched to computer generated printouts. No the printout was created after, the printout derives its information from the original vault certificate
    ——————————————————–

    first of all.. I dont know who ”you guys” refers to.. but I am not a Republican, and voted for the Constitution party. I have no trust in dems or repubs at all.

    That said, my concern here is less with Obama, than it is a governmental entity that is being deliberately deceptive about exactly WHAT record it does assert to possess.

    The state of HI is pretending in very vague manipulated language,
    that it possesses AND has attested/asserted that it has the doctor issued original birth certificate create at Obamas birth, physically present in 1961.
    When pressed, its agents try to interchange the MODERN computer generated information, with the true, original paper form from 48 years ago, and will not give a clear straight answer about the later,
    continually using the same term for both unrelated items, although they are clearly not being asked about the modern database information, they are being specifically asked about the ORIGINAL PAPER CREATED IN 1961.

    Yet, at no time, if you read the vague press releases from Fukina or the media contact from Okubo, does either one specifically assert they possess or have ever seen the actual historical document. The former and current governor also both assert the have NOT seen the original document, in spite of giving press announcements that ALLUDE to something of that nature, in very deliberately unclear language.

    These are govt officials payed for by the taxpayer. If you assert you can answer NO questions for privacy reasons- that is one thing.
    If you instead wage a disinformation campaignin order to get the media off your back with
    inquiries, to make is sound like your official specifically swears that they saw and possess the original document, while deliberately manipulating the language they use to NOT
    specifically swear to possessing the original historical 1961 paper document, or anything close to it..

    THAT is what I have a huge problem with.

    I can copy the text of the declaration of independence onto walmart notebook paper, or write ”GEORGE WASHINGTON” on a piece of stationary from walgreens, but these are not historical documents, and their veracity/accuracy can only be confirmed because we know from other reliable sources the name of George Washington and the text of the original declaration of independence.

    In the case of ANY birth certificate, we have only the original document and those witnesses who were present at that time who could attest to the time and place, and other facts (father of child listed) that are recorded on the HISTORICAL document.
    All the witnesses who could testify to support / confirm Obamas birth place etc.. are dead or NON-EXISTENT.
    Even with a grandmother who literally ran a major bank as its president, no one alive has come forth who recalls the birth or who stopped by the hospital (or which hospital) for the grandchild of a very prominent citizen of a TINY ISLAND.

    Obama has locked down every detail of his life, from his historical school records, to basic historical birth records, AND in his biographical claims, he details facts about his early life that are impossible based on other facts.
    1/He says he was separated from his father who left the family when he was 2,
    when from avail. records,
    Obama factually was separated from his father geographically by thousands of ocean miles, as a 3 week old INFANT, and no record shows him ever living as a family with his claimed father.
    2/The much vaunted birth announcement in Hawaii newspapers give Obamas family birth residence as his GRANDPARENTS home, not the residence used by the reported father at that time

    Was Obama told a sanitized version of events that made his father a better-sounding guy as a child, in order to protect him, and he as a adult simply repeated some inaccurate versions of his history that his family told him to try to make him feel better??- that is quite possible.

    But, to someone who wants to be the leader of the entire free world, and the USA, if there are facts about your past, its the right of the pubic to know and SEE the truth, without a bunch of drama. I do not need to release school transcripts or my BC, since I am not applying to lead the free world.
    In Obamas case, there are huge discrepancies that you can drive a truck through, and he actively has sought to conceal as much personal information as possible. THAT was his decision, and it leads to a very legit question as to why?

    http://weaselzippers.us/2011/01/18/hawaii-governor-actually-we-cant-find-obamas-original-birth-certificate/#comment-31994

  269. avatar
    Black Lion January 20, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    What I find more hilarious is that somehow the President cares what a couple of rags in other countries, who cannot vote for him as President, repeats the debunked sensationalist nonsense….So Squeekers pastes a link from a borderline UK rag and thinks that somehow is relevant or germane to the issue. Especially when the Governor states that the “records that prove that President Obama was born in HI” are on file. So how exactly is that somehow a liability for the President? Again Squeekers forgets that one important fact, that Barack Obama IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. He doesn’t have to release anything. Especially when papers need to make up titles of articles to pretend that the say something that they really don’t say.

    The reason Squeekers focuses on this pretend “court of public opinion” is that in a real court of law, she has no case. The law is on the President’s side. His approval rating is over 50%, even republicans approve of how he is handling the AZ crisis. The birthers are a perfect storm. A bunch of racist incompetent fools that every time they get any media attention they look so inept that they make the President even more sympathetic….There is an old saying…”Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake”….

    All the birthers do is make mistakes…When your movement is led by someone like Oily Titz, there are maybe 100,000 of you, your movement is associated with an seditious Army doctor that deserted his unit, and no legitimate politican wants anything to do with you, basically you are not worth the President’s time.

    Abeecrombie made a mistake,. Instead of ignoring you guys, he thought that release proof would satisfy you. When anyone who has dealt with the idiotic birthers knows that no matter what is released, they will claim it is a forgery, how can you trust it when Abercrombie is a buddy of Obama’s, or since his dad was not an American he is ineligible anyway. So it is a no win situation.

    The bottom line is this is all the proof the President will need to convince any rational person of his birth in HI…..

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai’i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

    http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09-063.pdf

  270. avatar
    Black Lion January 20, 2011 at 4:04 pm #

    To prove my point regarding Abercrombie….Look at the idiot “I took the red pill” over at Dr Kate’s house of hate….

    itooktheredpill
    January 19, 2011 at 8:06 am
    Abercrombie is the man who publicly read the bogus “Obama” letter to Kapi’olani Medical Center…

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103633

    And Abercrombie is the man who sponsored U.S. House Resolution 593 that tricked his peers into becoming the first government officials to say:

    “Obama was born in Hawaii”

    Which Government Organization Was The First To Say, “Obama was born in Hawaii”?

    The vote in favor of H.Res. 593 preceeded Dr. Fukino’s second News Release. Not the other way around.

    itooktheredpill
    January 19, 2011 at 9:02 am
    Could H. RES. 593 be used as “prima facie” evidence by the State of Hawaii to issue Dr. Fukino’s second News Release and finally make the claim “Obama was born in Hawaii”?

    I think the answer is yes, based on

    Federal Rules of Evidence
    Rule 902. Self-authentication

    (10) Presumptions under Acts of Congress. Any signature, document, or other matter declared by Act of Congress to be presumptively or prima facie genuine or authentic.

    itooktheredpill
    January 19, 2011 at 11:46 am
    I think it’s quite possible that…

    “I have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures”

    … only means that they verified that Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate is on record, not that they verified, or even saw, the contents of that original birth certificate. They could have simply looked at a computer screen, seen that a record exists, and that’s it.

    I believe that it is quite possible that the original birth certificate on record is one that Stanley Ann Dunham requested from Kenya as part of the documentation for her divorce from Barack Obama Sr.

    We’ve noted before that there are pages missing from the divorce records… the hand written page numbers go something like 1-7, 10-12. So, what happened to pages 8 and 9? (I may be off on what the exact page numbers are, but that’s a detail…) The point is that a Kenyan birth certificate could be on record in Hawaii, which is why Dr. Fukino could not claim “Obama was born in Hawaii” when she made her October 31, 2008 News Release. Of course, the AP ran a story claiming that Dr. Fukino had confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii, even though she did not say that.

    It was not until the U.S. House of Representatives voted in favor of H.Res. 593, which claimed “Obama was born in Hawaii”, that Dr. Fukino then issued her second News Release which echoed that statement, and echoed the DNC’s document (the one that was notarized and contained Nancy Pelosi’s signature) statement that Obama is a “natural born citizen”.

    This is all a big shell game.

    Fukino did not say “Obama was born in Hawaii” in October 31, 2008, and seemed unwilling to make that claim until the U.S. House made the claim first.

    Miss Tickly has the emails to prove it…

    http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/sell-out-obamas/

    Or this…

    CNN Edits Governor Lingle’s Words to Conceal her Lie and Create their own Lie
    By itooktheredpill
    The truth is that Governor Lingle has never claimed to have looked at the original, initial vital record for the birth of Barack Hussein Obama.

    The truth is that Governor Lingle has never claimed that the COLB that was produced at and by the Obama campaign headquarters is authentic. She has never “certified”, in a legal sense, anything about Obama’s birth.

    http://itooktheredpill.wordpress.com/2010/08/07/cnn-edits-governor-lingles-words-to-conceal-her-lie-and-create-their-own-lie/

  271. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 20, 2011 at 4:12 pm #

    Black Lion:

    Huh??? Here is what Frujinko said in 2008 on Halloween:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf

    “personally seen and verified that [Hawaii has the original birth certificate on record].” Soooo, you Obots take her at her word, and who knows, maybe she did. So what is the big problem finding it now???

    You can just call people names until you are blue in the face, and now you can add that you don’t care what people in other countries think, and whatever. But Abercrombie is going to have produce a Long Form or OH Obama and him and you Obots will just have egg all over their faces. And a whole bunch more Birthers in the world.

    Now that grownups are in the White House, if that is true, then we will see something. Who knows what??? Maybe the empty file folder where is was supposed to be???? You know what that argument will be, I bet something like.

    “There would not have been an empty file folder if something wasn’t originally in it. But the rats ate the original document and left the file folder because it didn’t taste as good, blah blah blah. Just everybody of import believes that rah rah sis boom ahhh!!!”

    Oh, I need to melt some more butter for the popcorn!!! What should we name this movie??? The Obot Scramble; The Obama identity???; Sleepless in Honolulu???; The Paper Chase???

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  272. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 20, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    Pests are very hard to get rid of, especially if you feed them

  273. avatar
    Black Lion January 20, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    Squeeky, we do take Dr Fukino at her word. Why not? Have you somehow proven that Dr. Fukino has told a lie? Committed perjury? No. Let’s play a game. Who under federal privacy laws was the only person legally allowed to view and inspect the official HI birth certificate? Well the answer is Dr. Fukino. So why would we doubt her word. Has there been any legally admissible evidence presented that would contradict what she has stated officially? Has there been any legally admissible proof ever submitted that has shown the President to be born anywhere but Hawaii? No. So basically you have the word of the only official sanctioned by the law stating the President was born in HI. And on the other hand you and the birthers have nothing but attacking the integrity and the race of Dr.Fukino. I guess hanging out with Charlie Manson has paid off for you. As for movie titles, it would be either “A Few Good Men”, which would be Abercrombie, the President, and all of the HI government officials, or the “Birth Certificate of Obama”, like the “Book of Eli”, the struggle of one man against the hoardes of stupidity, which are the birthers….Tee Hee….

  274. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 20, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    Black Lion: Squeeky, we do take Dr Fukino at her word.Why not?Have you somehow proven that Dr. Fukino has told a lie?Committed perjury?No.Let’s play a game.Who under federal privacy laws was the only person legally allowed to view and inspect the official HI birth certificate?Well the answer is Dr. Fukino.So why would we doubt her word.Has there been any legally admissible evidence presented that would contradict what she has stated officially?Has there been any legally admissible proof ever submitted that has shown the President to be born anywhere but Hawaii?No.So basically you have the word of the only official sanctioned by the law stating the President was born in HI.And on the other hand you and the birthers have nothing but attacking the integrity and the race of Dr.Fukino.I guess hanging out with Charlie Manson has paid off for you.As for movie titles, it would be either “A Few Good Men”, which would be Abercrombie, the President, and all of the HI government officials, or the “Birth Certificate of Obama”, like the “Book of Eli”, the struggle of one man against the hoardes of stupidity, which are the birthers….Tee Hee….

    Don’t you get the feeling that you’ve been there before, like about 1000 times or more?

  275. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2011 at 4:53 pm #

    Black Lion: To prove my point regarding Abercrombie….Look at the idiot “I took the red pill” over at Dr Kate’s house of hate….

    Black Lion,

    While I certainly disagree with Mr. Anderson – my name for ‘I took the red pill’ – on pretty much everything (except Duke basketball…), I will give him credit for having the only birther blog I know of that doesn’t moderate – while he will ban people for incivility or other bad behavior as he sees it, I have had a very civil discussion with him and another poster over the course of the last few days and he has done nothing more than to respond to my arguments with arguments of his own. Since, as far as I can tell, this makes his site unique in the birtherverse, he should be given appropriate kudos.

    The thread may be found at:

    http://itooktheredpill.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/questions-for-speaker-boehner/

    I would ask (as a personal favor) that if any of you decide to comment over there that you would show Mr. Anderson respect and attack the ideas, not the man. Thanks in advance.

  276. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 20, 2011 at 4:59 pm #

    Black Lion:

    Then why doesn’t Abercrombie call up Frujinko and ask her where she saw it last??? Here’s the way it will all shake out.

    Long Forms Talk, BS and Excuses Walk.

    So simple even a Governor of Hawaii gets it!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  277. avatar
    Scientist January 20, 2011 at 5:04 pm #

    Black Lion, as for the “court of public opinion”. opinions don’t matter, votes do. So, I issue a challenge: I am looking for a registered voter who can honestly and truthfully say the following: “I agree with most of Obama’s policies and think he is doing a fine job as President. I would happily vote for him in 2012; however, I am deeply concerned about the issues surrounding his birthplace. If he releases the long-form birth certificate and it shows him born in Hawaii, I will vote for him in 2012. Otherwise, I will not”.

    It is my contention that there is not even 1 such person in the entire United States. In the spirit of science, I am submitting this hypothesis to experimental falsification.

  278. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2011 at 5:13 pm #

    Scientist,

    In the spirit of adding to your empirical data, I would like to state that I am not such a person nor do I know of any person who would falsify your claim.

  279. avatar
    Rickey January 20, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    Joey:
    A Hawaii vital record can be released without the permission of the person named on the record to “a person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order from a court of competent jurisdiction.”–Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18(b)(9)

    Yes, but there is no court order at present, and and it doesn’t appear likely that there will ever be a court order.

    It’s clear to me that Abercrombie is looking for something which can be released without any authorization from Obama or a court order.

  280. avatar
    Daniel January 20, 2011 at 5:30 pm #

    I think Abercrombie was a little naive when he first brought the issue up. I think he may heve been led to believe that the birther crap would stop if he just gave them a little more objective evidence.

    I think he’s starting to figure out that nothing will ever satisfy the birthers, because eligibility really isn’t the issue for them.

  281. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 20, 2011 at 5:32 pm #

    Rickey:
    Yes, but there is no court order at present, and and it doesn’t appear likely that there will ever be a court order.It’s clear to me that Abercrombie is looking for something which can be released without any authorization from Obama or a court order.

    If he can find something to release within the confines of the law, I’m sure he will. If he doesn’t find something he can release outside of those restrictions, the birthers will probably say, as they already have said, that he can’t find anything at all, which is absolutely false.

  282. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 20, 2011 at 5:33 pm #

    Scientist:

    I think maybe a Grown-up Obot would just kick you in the seat of the pants and say ” I refute it thus!” (Somebody famous whoever did this once in Greece???)

    I bet the grown-up Obot would also say hurtful things to you like ” What in the heck planet do you live on you @#!!%#!!!&$??? What part of 58% do you not understand???

    That is the difference between grown up obots and grown up Birthers on one side, and you little kid obots on the other. That is why smart people like me, Chris Matthews, Neal Ambercrombie, and the Law Professor understand it while you are still playing with your Junior Scientist Magnifying Glass Set and catching leaves on fire.

    Tee Hee! Tee Hee!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  283. avatar
    obsolete January 20, 2011 at 5:57 pm #

    Squueky continues with her racist “Frujinko” crap, and people respond to her as if she is a rational player…

    Squeeky, cut the racist “Frujinko” crap.

  284. avatar
    Joey January 20, 2011 at 6:07 pm #

    Rickey: Yes, but there is no court order at present, and and it doesn’t appear likely that there will ever be a court order.It’s clear to me that Abercrombie is looking for something which can be released without any authorization from Obama or a court order.

    Now that the Republicans control the House of Representatives, perhaps a pro-birther committee chairperson will be convinced to issue a congressional subpoena for Obama’s birth records. Its a little early in the history of the 112th Congress to see if that will happen.
    Interestingly, Hawaii is one of the few states where the Attorney General of the state has independent subpoena power, meaning the Attorney General does not need to go to a judge to get a subpoena. Perhaps the new Attorney General will release the birth certificate on his own authority.
    Another different thing about Hawaii government is that the state Attorney General is an appointed position, not an elected position, so the Attorney General works for Abercrombie.

  285. avatar
    Scientist January 20, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    Slartibartfast: In the spirit of adding to your empirical data, I would like to state that I am not such a person nor do I know of any person who would falsify your claim.

    Bart, You would be more likely to run into Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa than into someone whho would falsify my claim.

  286. avatar
    Scientist January 20, 2011 at 6:16 pm #

    Joey: Now that the Republicans control the House of Representatives, perhaps a pro-birther committee chairperson will be convinced to issue a congressional subpoena for Obama’s birth records

    On what grounds?

  287. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 20, 2011 at 6:19 pm #

    obsolete: Squueky continues with her racist “Frujinko” crap, and people respond to her as if she is a rational player…Squeeky, cut the racist “Frujinko” crap.

    Yes, and if it’s allowed to continue, we’ll be hearing the same dumb crap for at least the next two years and more than likely the next 6 years because it never changes.

    Just so you know, when she gets done here refusing to accept facts that contradict her delusions, she goes to other websites and says what a bunch of idiots people here are. She does that not because you haven’t provided her with enough factual evidence to contradict her dumb claims, she does that because she knows that anyone who even bothers to respond to her garbage thinking that facts will prove her wrong is an idiot. And it is on that basis that she goes to other websites and says that everyone here is stupid, and I think after all this time, with her repeating the same nonsense day in and day out and her making up the stupidest of excuses why she refuses to accept the facts, that’s one thing I have to agree with her about. She comes here to taunt so that she can go to other websites and blow her own horn just because we simply respond to her BS.

  288. avatar
    Joey January 20, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    Scientist: On what grounds?

    Coffee 😉
    Congress can investigate any issue it deems to investigate and just like with Grand Juries, they can go on legal “fishing expeditions” any time they want.
    It is interesting that the primary House Committee that undertakes investigations is “Oversight and Government Reform.” The new committee chair is Darryl Issa of California and he has already said that he won’t be investigating “birther” issues, only what Obama has done SINCE Inauguration Day.

  289. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 20, 2011 at 6:26 pm #

    Joey: Now that the Republicans control the House of Representatives, perhaps a pro-birther committee chairperson will be convinced to issue a congressional subpoena for Obama’s birth records

    I really think this an unlikely scenario. While John Behner has not publicly admonished his party members, surely he has privately. If they ever got their subpoena, it would be “de tar baby.” The birth certificate would show what fools they all are. It’s a lose-lose scenario

  290. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 20, 2011 at 6:28 pm #

    The bottom line is that the second you respond to that troll, you’ve lost the argument regardless of what factual evidence you present because it doesn’t care about facts, and once you respond to it, you have given it what it comes here to get and use against you in other internet venues – attention

  291. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 20, 2011 at 6:29 pm #

    Hmmmm. You Obots don’t complain when I call him Vattle. Plus, FUT, you are just mad because I busted you out saying one thing on one thread, and another thing on another thread!!!

    So There!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  292. avatar
    obsolete January 20, 2011 at 6:31 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Yes, and if it’s allowed to continue, we’ll be hearing the same dumb crap for at least the next two years and more than likely the next 6 years because it never changes.

    Just so you know, when she gets done here refusing to accept facts that contradict her delusions, she goes to other websites and says what a bunch of idiots people here are. She does that not because you haven’t provided her with enough factual evidence to contradict her dumb claims, she does that because she knows that anyone who even bothers to respond to her garbage thinking that facts will prove her wrong is an idiot. And it is on that basis that she goes to other websites and says that everyone here is stupid, and I think after all this time, with her repeating the same nonsense day in and day out and her making up the stupidest of excuses why she refuses to accept the facts, that’s one thing I have to agree with her about. She comes here to taunt so that she can go to other websites and blow her own horn just because we simply respond to her BS.

    I couldn’t have put it better myself….
    Seriously, would anyone try to have a rational discussion with anyone who referred to President Obama as “Oogabama”? I would hope not. So why does anyone put up with her “Frujinko” crap?

  293. avatar
    obsolete January 20, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    Would anyone try rational debate with someone who used the name “James Earl Ray” here?

  294. avatar
    Scientist January 20, 2011 at 6:33 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It’s a lose-lose scenario

    Once again, unless someone can meet my challenge and show me a pro-Obama birther, there are no votes there. Those who doubt the birth will not vote for Obama no matter what and those that would vote for Obama if his record justiifies it don’t doubt the birth.

  295. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 20, 2011 at 6:34 pm #

    SqueekyFromm: Huh??? Here is what Frujinko said in 2008 on Halloween

    It is “Fukino.” You have been informed. Do it again, and I will assume it was intentional, and you will be banned.

  296. avatar
    Joey January 20, 2011 at 6:35 pm #

    A gentle reminder:
    The feeding of trolls is strongly discouraged as it only tends to stimulate their desperate need for any kind of attention from anybody.

    Lonely and pathetic people will seek even negative attention over being ignored.

  297. avatar
    Joey January 20, 2011 at 6:40 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I really think this an unlikely scenario. While John Behner has not publicly admonished his party members, surely he has privately. If they ever got their subpoena, it would be “de tar baby.” The birth certificate would show what fools they all are. It’s a lose-lose scenario

    Methinks that you are misunderestimating 😉 the degree of irrationality. Boehner could well figure that the best way to wash his hands completely of a losing issue for his party is to end it once and for all, with him staying way distant from it.

  298. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2011 at 6:44 pm #

    Joey: A gentle reminder:
    The feeding of trolls is strongly discouraged as it only tends to stimulate their desperate need for any kind of attention from anybody.Lonely and pathetic people will seek even negative attention over being ignored.

    We hit it with a pretty good dose of ignoricide for a while there, I’m sure we can manage some more…

    Scientist,

    I think you have hit on exactly why the birther issue is a wedge issue for democrats – it’s no surprise that the Republican leadership will have nothing to do with it (I wonder if Alan West will go rogue at some point…). I’m not sure how big a benefit it would be to Democrats (in terms of people who would change their vote) but it would definitely be a political gift.

  299. avatar
    Scientist January 20, 2011 at 6:52 pm #

    Bart-I don’t think Alan West chairs a committee, so I don’t think he can do much. I’m also not sure whether Congress has the power to subpoena state documents.

    I am still waiting for a pro-Obama birther to surface. They seem harder to find than WMDs in Iraq.

  300. avatar
    SqueekyFromm January 20, 2011 at 6:56 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It is “Fukino.” You have been informed. Do it again, and I will assume it was intentional, and you will be banned.

    You do not have to ban me, I will go. You obviously tolerate INTENTIONAL whatever when it is from Obots. Just look above: “Aputzo, Taintz and Borg.” One could find many others. It is just that you have double standards. But it is your website and you can have as many different standards as you like. The real issue is that you Obots can dish it out, but you just can’t take it!!!

    But, thank you for the things you have taught me.

    So There!!!

    Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

  301. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2011 at 6:59 pm #

    Scientist: Bart-I don’t think Alan West chairs a committee, so I don’t think he can do much.I’m also not sure whether Congress has the power to subpoena state documents.I am still waiting for a pro-Obama birther to surface.They seem harder to find than WMDs in Iraq.

    Since Rep. West is a freshman, I’m certain he doesn’t – I don’t think that he would accomplish something (beyond playing with the tar baby), but if he is truly a birther that might not make a difference.

    And don’t hold your breath while you’re waiting… 😉

  302. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 20, 2011 at 7:26 pm #

    SqueekyFromm:
    You do not have to ban me, I will go. You obviously tolerate INTENTIONAL whatever when it is from Obots. Just look above: “Aputzo, Taintz and Borg.”One could find many others. It is just that you have double standards. But it is your website and you can have as many different standards as you like.The real issue is that you Obots can dish it out, but you just can’t take it!!!But, thank you for the things you have taught me.So There!!!Squeeky Fromm
    Girl Reporter

    She was a state official she demands respect. It sounds mildly racist when you continue to do it. Why is it you show a general hatred towards Dr. Fukino. We took it from you over and over as you showed how schitzophrenic you were. Go make some friends Squeeky its obvious you don’t have any

  303. avatar
    Rickey January 20, 2011 at 8:52 pm #

    Scientist:I’m also not sure whether Congress has the power to subpoena state documents.

    I don’t know either, but subpoena power isn’t absolute. I would expect to see Hawaii DOH attempt to quash a subpoena if one were served, although they might respond to one by producing another COLB.

  304. avatar
    Bovril January 20, 2011 at 9:23 pm #

    And the odds that Elektra ACTUALLY leaves and doesn’t return….?

  305. avatar
    Black Lion January 20, 2011 at 9:33 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Black Lion,While I certainly disagree with Mr. Anderson – my name for I took the red pill’ – on pretty much everything (except Duke basketball…), I will give him credit for having the only birther blog I know of that doesn’t moderate – while he will ban people for incivility or other bad behavior as he sees it, I have had a very civil discussion with him and another poster over the course of the last few days and he has done nothing more than to respond to my arguments with arguments of his own. Since, as far as I can tell, this makes his site unique in the birtherverse, he should be given appropriate kudos.The thread may be found at:http://itooktheredpill.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/questions-for-speaker-boehner/I would ask (as a personal favor) that if any of you decide to comment over there that you would show Mr. Anderson respect and attack the ideas, not the man. Thanks in advance.

    Slart, I would never attack him. I respect the argument and have read his blog before. I did not post however. I called him an idiot becuase of his theory, which I thought was asinine….But I do respect someone who is willing to debate the issue, and not ignore them and mindlessly believe in nonsense….

  306. avatar
    Majority Will January 20, 2011 at 9:33 pm #

    “double standards”

    Says the serial poster who’s hero and namesake attempted to assassinate Gerald Ford.

    “Just look above: “Aputzo, Taintz and Borg”

    Childish? Sure. I admit it.

    Racist? Nope. Not unless two body parts (with one also a verb for corruption) and a fictional alien is racist.

  307. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 20, 2011 at 9:35 pm #

    Bovril: And the odds that Elektra ACTUALLY leaves and doesn’t return….?

    She’s through here. Here little game has been outed.

  308. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 20, 2011 at 9:36 pm #

    HER little game has been outed

  309. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 20, 2011 at 9:46 pm #

    SO THERE!!!!!!!

  310. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2011 at 9:49 pm #

    Black Lion,

    The last comment was not directed at you specifically. I agree with you both in regards to Mr. Anderson’s ideas and his willingness to debate – I’m interested to see how he will respond to my continued arguments – after following what you and others have written here for the past two years I feel pretty capable of refuting any birther theory…

    Will,

    Well said.

    FUT,

    Tee Hee!

  311. avatar
    Majority Will January 20, 2011 at 9:49 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: SO THERE!!!!!!!

    Tee Frickin’ Hee.

  312. avatar
    Black Lion January 20, 2011 at 9:49 pm #

    Bovril: And the odds that Elektra ACTUALLY leaves and doesn’t return….?

    She’ll be back…She wants the attention….She intentionally attempts to engage someone because of her need for that attention….

  313. avatar
    Black Lion January 20, 2011 at 9:54 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Black Lion,The last comment was not directed at you specifically. I agree with you both in regards to Mr. Anderson’s ideas and his willingness to debate – I’m interested to see how he will respond to my continued arguments – after following what you and others have written here for the past two years I feel pretty capable of refuting any birther theory… Will,Well said.FUT,Tee Hee!

    Slart, I know. I just didn’t want you to think that I would just attack him because of his opinions…I am also curious to see what he will say to refute your coherent arguments….

  314. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2011 at 9:55 pm #

    Here’s something Dr. K(h)ate apparently feels comfortable posting on her website:

    drkate
    January 20, 2011 at 5:20 pm
    lame Cherry has a post on it, blood camouflage part HU

    How’s this for a description of her heiny

    “Michelle Obama is a psychadelic 1960′s bad acid trip of a Saigon frag incident painted with the viscous unctions of blood, spit, genital ejactulations, urine and blood clot feces upon the wall of the mind dressed to kill.”

    [link to Lame Cherry’s cesspool for batshit insane racists omitted]

    She’s such a sweetie pie…

  315. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 20, 2011 at 9:57 pm #

    And once someone is foolish enough to give her that attention, she says, “Okay, I don’t like your facts, so I win.” Then she goes to other websites telling everyone how smart she is and how stupid everyone here is because she’s so delusional that she doesn’t accept facts she doesn’t like.

    You can’t argue with a sick mind because sick minds don’t accept facts. If someone wants to believe the sun is made of ice cream or that the Holocaust never happened, there’s no set of facts they are ever going to accept that prove them wrong.

  316. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2011 at 9:57 pm #

    Oops forgot to censor and it got caught in moderation…

    Here’s something Dr. K(h)ate apparently feels comfortable posting on her website:

    drkate
    January 20, 2011 at 5:20 pm
    lame Cherry has a post on it, blood camouflage part HU

    How’s this for a description of her heiny

    “Michelle Obama is a psychadelic 1960′s bad acid trip of a Saigon frag incident painted with the viscous unctions of blood, spit, genital ejactulations, urine and blood clot feces upon the wall of the mind dressed to kill.”

    [link to Lame Cherry’s cesspool for batguano insane racists omitted]

    She’s such a sweetie pie…

  317. avatar
    Black Lion January 20, 2011 at 9:57 pm #

    obsolete: Would anyone try rational debate with someone who used the name “James Earl Ray” here?

    No…You are right….Nor would we engage Charles Manson….It reminds me of the guy on Gretawire who went by the name “Nathan Bedford Forrest”…The former Confederate general who was one of the founders of the Klan….

  318. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2011 at 9:59 pm #

    I find it somewhat amusing that the reason my comment got held up in moderation was due to my use of a different term for guano rather than LC getting its hate on…

  319. avatar
    Black Lion January 20, 2011 at 10:00 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: And once someone is foolish enough to give her that attention, she says, “Okay, I don’t like your facts, so I win.” Then she goes to other websites telling everyone how smart she is and how stupid everyone here is because she’s so delusional that she doesn’t accept facts she doesn’t like.You can’t argue with a sick mind because sick minds don’t accept facts. If someone wants to believe the sun is made of ice cream or that the Holocaust never happened, there’s no set of facts they are ever going to accept that prove them wrong.

    Fut, agreed….And Slart, Lame Cherry is just a hateful racist…She/he hates the Obamas and has vilified them on numerous occasions…

  320. avatar
    Keith January 20, 2011 at 10:04 pm #

    Slartibartfast: While I certainly disagree with Mr. Anderson – my name for I took the red pill’ – on pretty much everything (except Duke basketball…),

    I had a sneaking idea that this whole ‘birther’ mess would one day be tied to the dookies somehow, someway.

    Its all a pattern you see, K won’t play a significant out-of-conference game outside the cozy confines of Cameron, and Birthers won’t engage in discussion outside the cozy confines of their own echo chamber.

    Bear Down, Arizona! Its Miller Time!

  321. avatar
    G January 20, 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    Black Lion: Fut, agreed….And Slart, Lame Cherry is just a hateful racist…She/he hates the Obamas and has vilified them on numerous occasions…

    Lame Cherry is way beyond just being a hateful racist. Lame Cherry’s posts are so depraved and sick that there is no question that LC suffers from extreme mental issues as well as a ton of depraved sexual hangups. This is one of the sickest individuals on the ‘net, in every sense of the word.

  322. avatar
    Majority Will January 20, 2011 at 10:26 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: If someone wants to believe the sun is made of ice cream . . .

    You’ve never had baked ice cream? 😀

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baked_Alaska

    Yum.

  323. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 20, 2011 at 10:32 pm #

    Yeah, I’ve had that before, Will; it is delicious. I guess I’ve had a little too much half-baked Alaska (Palin) though lately

  324. avatar
    Slartibartfast January 20, 2011 at 10:36 pm #

    Keith,

    Don’t mess with Duke! (back in the day I was one of the two or three most recognizable Cameron Crazies…) And I haven’t noticed Coach K having any problems winning games away from Cameron in March…

  325. avatar
    Majority Will January 20, 2011 at 10:46 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: too much half-baked Alaska (Palin) though lately

    Too much credit. The omelette surprise from Wasilla is still quite raw. You betcha.

  326. avatar
    obsolete January 21, 2011 at 2:19 am #

    My goodness, the group IQ here has gone up 50% since the girl reporter who couldn’t get a public official’s name right left. She was such a drag.
    For those who like to have birther’s to sharpen your wits against, there will be others- some drive-bys and some who may actually debate a while, until they decide facts are stupid things.
    But Squeeky was the worst of everything- a name stealing troll to begin with, who was just playing everyone here in some grand bit of performance art theater.

  327. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 8:38 am #

    obsolete:
    But Squeeky was the worst of everything- a name stealing troll to begin with, who was just playing everyone here in some grand bit of performance art theater.

    Yep . . . http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001062327180

  328. avatar
    Black Lion January 21, 2011 at 8:39 am #

    Majority Will: Too much credit. The omelette surprise from Wasilla is still quite raw. You betcha.

    Speaking of the quitter from Wasilla, news of good old Todd cheating on Simple Sarah…Keep in mind it is from the National Enquirer, but if I recall last year when the equally trashy Globe printed “news” which alleged that Obama was cheating with another woman, the birthers and Obama haters pointed out that it was probabaly true because the Enquirer ended up being right about John Edwards….I wonder how long it will take them to denounce this article, forgetting how they vilify President Obama daily on “evidence” with less veracity than this….You will definately see some hypocrisy….

    Todd Palin, Sarah Palin’s husband, in sex scandal with massage therapist Shailey Tripp: Enquirer

    “The National Enquirer is reporting that Sarah Palin’s husband, Todd, is embroiled in a sex scandal involving an extramarital affair with a massage therapist who has been “busted for prostitution.”

    The Enquirer claims it has unearthed official documents showing 36-year-old Shailey Tripp was arrested for maintaining a house of prostitution in March and that cops have confiscated physical evidence that could tie Todd to the alleged affair.
    The tabloid did not disclose when the alleged rendezvous took place or what evidence was seized by police.

    The Palins, who have previously been dogged by cheating allegations in 2008 and 2009 and have vehemently denied each and every accusation, though they have not commented on the Enquirer story.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2011/01/20/2011-01-20_todd_palin_sarah_palins_husband_in_sex_scandal_with_massage_therapist_shailey_tr.html

  329. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 8:52 am #

    obsolete: Don’t feed the racist political assassin fan troll.

    Speaking of which . . .

    Manson follower Patricia Krenwinkel denied parole
    January 20, 2011
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/manson-follower-patricia-krenwinkel-denied-parole.html

    After Manson and some of his followers were arrested for the Tate/La Bianca murders in 1969, Lynette Alice “Squeaky” Fromme and the remaining “Manson family” camped outside of the trial. When Manson and his fellow defendants, Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten and Atkins carved Xs into their foreheads, so did Squeaky Fromme and her compatriots.

    They proclaimed Manson’s innocence and preached his apocalyptic philosophy to the news media and to anyone else who would listen.

    Squeaky Fromme was never charged with involvement in the murders, but was convicted of attempting to prevent Manson’s imprisoned followers from testifying, as well as contempt of court when she herself refused to testify. She was given short jail sentences for both offenses.

    Upon entering prison, Charles Manson looked to the Aryan Brotherhood for protection against sexual assault and beatings. To earn the favor of the brotherhood, Manson had his female followers mail nude photos of themselves to brotherhood members. With these photos, promises of sexual favors when the men were released were also included.

    (source: wikipedia)

    A birther’s role model.

  330. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 9:02 am #

    Black Lion:
    Speaking of the quitter from Wasilla, news of good old Todd cheating on Simple Sarah…Keep in mind it is from the National Enquirer, but if I recall last year when the equally trashy Globe printed “news” which alleged that Obama was cheating with another woman, the birthers and Obama haters pointed out that it was probabaly true because the Enquirer ended up being right about John Edwards….I wonder how long it will take them to denounce this article, forgetting how they vilify President Obama daily on “evidence” with less veracity than this….You will definately see some hypocrisy….Todd Palin, Sarah Palin’s husband, in sex scandal with massage therapist Shailey Tripp: Enquirer“The National Enquirer is reporting that Sarah Palin’s husband, Todd, is embroiled in a sex scandal involving an extramarital affair with a massage therapist who has been “busted for prostitution.”The Enquirer claims it has unearthed official documents showing 36-year-old Shailey Tripp was arrested for maintaining a house of prostitution in March and that cops have confiscated physical evidence that could tie Todd to the alleged affair.
    The tabloid did not disclose when the alleged rendezvous took place or what evidence was seized by police.The Palins, who have previously been dogged by cheating allegations in 2008 and 2009 and have vehemently denied each and every accusation, though they have not commented on the Enquirer story.”http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2011/01/20/2011-01-20_todd_palin_sarah_palins_husband_in_sex_scandal_with_massage_therapist_shailey_tr.html

    More than likely, the Palinistas and her lapdog, Mansour will spin this to make Simple Sarah the victim of viciousness from the Evil Media again.

    If it’s proven true by more reputable sources, then The Wasilla Winker can use the “See, I said I was a victim but now I’m taking the high road and forgiving him,” defense.

  331. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 9:21 am #

    Denounce the “Birthers” NOW!

    http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/denounce_birthers/index2.html?rc=hlinko_01062011_birthers_ad1

    From the site:
    Sign the petition

    We’ve reached 63% of our 2nd NEW goal of 10,000 signers! (6,316)

    The petition reads:
    “I am calling on you to clearly and unambiguously denounce the birther movement, and to do it in the halls of Congress itself. It is appalling that this stupidity has gone on as long as it has, especially considering the racist undertones which clearly drive much of the rumors. Enough is enough. Stop coddling and encouraging the birthers — and start denouncing them.”

    Guess where I found this very helpful link?

    It’s there.

  332. avatar
    Steve January 21, 2011 at 10:47 am #

    Majority Will: Speaking of which . . .Manson follower Patricia Krenwinkel denied paroleJanuary 20, 2011http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/manson-follower-patricia-krenwinkel-denied-parole.htmlAfter Manson and some of his followers were arrested for the Tate/La Bianca murders in 1969, Lynette Alice “Squeaky” Fromme and the remaining “Manson family” camped outside of the trial. When Manson and his fellow defendants, Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten and Atkins carved Xs into their foreheads, so did Squeaky Fromme and her compatriots.They proclaimed Manson’s innocence and preached his apocalyptic philosophy to the news media and to anyone else who would listen. Squeaky Fromme was never charged with involvement in the murders, but was convicted of attempting to prevent Manson’s imprisoned followers from testifying, as well as contempt of court when she herself refused to testify. She was given short jail sentences for both offenses.Upon entering prison, Charles Manson looked to the Aryan Brotherhood for protection against sexual assault and beatings. To earn the favor of the brotherhood, Manson had his female followers mail nude photos of themselves to brotherhood members. With these photos, promises of sexual favors when the men were released were also included.(source: wikipedia)A birther’s role model.

    One of my favorite SNL sketches was “Dangerous but Inept,” where Jane Curtain interviewed Squeeky, played by Laraine Newman.

    http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75cinept.phtml

  333. avatar
    Black Lion January 21, 2011 at 10:49 am #

    More fiction from the Post and Fail…

    “Dear Governor Abercrombie:

    RE: BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA’S LONG-FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE

    On December 24, 2010, various news outlets, including The New York Times, reported that you were “so incensed over birthers’ — the conspiracy theorists who assert that Mr. Obama was born in Kenya and was thus not eligible to become president — that he is seeking ways to change state policy to allow him to release additional proof that the president was born in Honolulu in 1961.”

    Since that time, after refusing to cover the issue over the last two years, the “conservative” internet and print news outlet Human Events has included the eligibility of Barack Hussein Obama to occupy the Oval Office on the author’s list of “investigation targets” by the new House Republican majority. The questions surrounding Obama’s constitutional eligibility to serve as President and Commander-in-Chief are being discussed on radio stations by mainstream journalists who have stated that the media now “privately admit a constitutional crisis” in regard to the fraud which Obama has apparently wrought upon a largely unsuspecting nation.

    Since its inception in August 2009, this publication as well as others have reported numerous instances of stonewalling on the part of employees at the Hawaii Department of Health (HDOH) for information which by law should have been available to the public. You now provide direct oversight over the Department of Health and have appointed a new interim director. Prior to your election, The Post & Email has reported with extensive documentation that the Hawaii Department of Health has lied about the availability of birth index data or failed to answer UIPA requests at all. No one from the department has refuted our claims that they have been dishonest in dealing with the public regarding releasing information under the UIPA law.

    Even former Obama supporter Chris Mathews, who in 2007 stated on air that Obama was born in Indonesia, has recently called for him to release his original birth certificate. The only information which the HDOH has released is alleged “birth index data” which proves absolutely nothing, as Hawaii has provided Certifications of Live Birth to children born out of the country.

    When Factcheck.org released a “Certification of Live Birth” in August 2008, the organization did not disclose that it lacked the information present on the official long-form document which contains the signature of the doctor who delivered the child, the height and weight of the baby, and considerable personal information about the parents such as occupation and their birthplaces. An official document also would have contained a raised stamp from the Registrar of Vital Statistics. Questions directed to Factcheck.org staff members have repeatedly gone unanswered.

    A researcher who traveled to Hawaii last summer documented the fact that contrary to the claims of the Hawaii Department of Health, long-form birth certificates are still available to anyone born in Hawaii who requests one for a fee of $10.00.

    Shortly after you made your public statement on December 24, it was reported that you subsequently declined interviews and further commentary about your quest for Obama’s original vital records in Hawaii, and yesterday it was stated that you have been unable to locate them. However, as governor, you must be familiar with HRS 338, which states that only a person with a “direct and tangible interest” in the record may obtain a copy.

    You may know that there is video proof that Michelle Obama has referred to Kenya as her husband’s “home country.” Members of the Kenyan Parliament have stated on the record that Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Kenya, as did the Kenyan ambassador to the United States, Peter Ogego. Another report emanating from Hawaii stated that he was born in Indonesia but was later changed to say that his birthplace was Honolulu. Why are there so many inconsistencies in regard to this man’s birth?

    Obama himself has admitted that he was born a dual citizen due to his father’s British citizenship as a Kenyan, as Kenya had been a British colony at the time of Barack Obama Sr.’s birth. Obama also conspicuously referred to himself as “native born,” not “natural born,” on his campaign website in 2008. Why did Obama not declare himself a “natural born Citizen,” as is required by Article II, Section 1, clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution, and then provide the proof?

    There remains a question as to whether or not Obama holds Indonesian citizenship.

    There is a decorated former Army flight surgeon sitting in prison at Ft. Leavenworth, KS because Obama was unwilling to provide proof of his eligibility to serve as President and Commander-in-Chief. What kind of a man would order members of the U.S. Armed Forces to enter into harm’s way and yet hide all of his personal records while occupying the most public office in the world? What kind of person would allow an 18-year, highly-acclaimed Army veteran to lose his livelihood, rank, and career because he refused to release his long-form birth certificate? And why did the defendant’s chain of command preside conduct his court-martial without allowing discovery to him to settle the matter once and for all?”
    …………

    “If Obama was not born in Hawaii, has parents other than whom he has claimed, or is not a “natural born Citizen” for whatever reason, he has lied to entire country and should be prosecuted, along with the hundreds, if not thousands, of operatives who aided and abetted the fraud. All of the laws Obama has signed and appointments he has made would be rendered null and void. However, would that not be preferable to allowing a usurper to act as de facto president and commander-in-chief because politicians, judges, and Supreme Court justices lack the fortitude to stand up for the U.S. Constitution, which protects all of us from absolute government tyranny?”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/01/19/open-letter-to-hawaii-gov-neil-abercrombie/

    And in the comments our recent troll that likes the name of an assissin makes and apperance spouting the same nonsense….I decline to repeat it…But the following comment is hilarious…

    12thGenerationAMERICAN says:
    Thursday, January 20, 2011 at 12:28 PM
    Great letter, Sharon! As always, you make us BIRTHERs ( Brave Individual Requesting Traitors Heed Eligibility Requirements) proud! God bless and be safe
    ——————-
    Mrs. Rondeau replies: Thank you, sir.

  334. avatar
    Black Lion January 21, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    More Obama derangement….

    Fox Rejects Super Bowl Ad From JesusHatesObama.Com

    “Fox has rejected a proposed Super Bowl ad from a conservative comedy site called JesusHatesObama.com.

    The ad shows two bobblehead dolls: one of Jesus and one of President Obama. As classical music plays, the video cuts between the two bobbleheads until Jesus seemingly makes the Obama bobblehead fall into a fish tank, whereupon the logo for the site comes up.

    Fox said the ad was unacceptable and could not air during the Super Bowl.

    A representative for the site said that it was founded by a man named Richard Belfry. On the site, people can order anti-Obama merchandise, such as t-shirts and hats. A block of text on the front page of the site explains, “do we really believe that Jesus hates Obama? Of course not! However, we do believe in freedom…as in the freedom to make fun of the Obama administration with novelty t-shirts…our products may be a joke but so are the policies of this administration.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/20/fox-rejects-super-bowl-ad-jesus-hates-obama_n_811882.html

  335. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    As all of us on this blog are aware, the current governor of Hawaii, Neil Abercrombie, is having a little difficulty in finding the actual “long form” birth certificate in the Hawaii Vital Records files. He is reported as looking, but has not come across it quite yet.

    This is easily remedied. If you recall:

    Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.

    http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.html

    The solution is simple. Abercrombie only need to ask Fukino or Onaka where they left the certificate after their viewing of it and – voila – case is solved!

    Finally, we can put an end to this nonsense.

  336. avatar
    Joey January 21, 2011 at 12:33 pm #

    lester: As all of us on this blog are aware, the current governor of Hawaii, Neil Abercrombie, is having a little difficulty in finding the actual “long form” birth certificate in the Hawaii Vital Records files. He is reported as looking, but has not come across it quite yet. This is easily remedied. If you recall:Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.htmlThe solution is simple. Abercrombie only need to ask Fukino or Onaka where they left the certificate after their viewing of it and – voila – case is solved!Finally, we can put an end to this nonsense.

    That’s absolutely right and the fact that the Abercrombie administration hasn’t figured that out yet makes them look like complete idiots.

    Rush Limbaugh did a lengthy piece on his show today making fun of Abercrombie. It’s not good to start off your administration looking like a fool to the entire planet.

  337. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 21, 2011 at 12:34 pm #

    lester: As all of us on this blog are aware, the current governor of Hawaii, Neil Abercrombie, is having a little difficulty in finding the actual “long form” birth certificate in the Hawaii Vital Records files. He is reported as looking, but has not come across it quite yet. This is easily remedied. If you recall:Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.http://www.kitv.com/r/17860890/detail.htmlThe solution is simple. Abercrombie only need to ask Fukino or Onaka where they left the certificate after their viewing of it and – voila – case is solved!Finally, we can put an end to this nonsense.

    Considering that’s the Governor never said he had difficulty finding the long form you might want to go back to the drawing board.

  338. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    Oh, he’s having difficulty finding it alright. It’s in the press – literally all over the world.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BakJm5SA

  339. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 21, 2011 at 12:47 pm #

    lester: Oh, he’s having difficulty finding it alright. It’s in the press – literally all over the world.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BakJm5SA

    Do you often get your news from a tabloid site? The notion that Abercrombie can’t find it is based on illiteracy. Namingly birthers not being able to read the actual interview and what he actually said. Instead of going to a third party tabloid read the original interview.

    http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html

    “It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …

    …What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.”

    He clearly states it exists in their archives.

  340. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    lester: Oh, he’s having difficulty finding it alright.It’s in the press – literally all over the world.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BakJm5SA

    So you’re one of the mentally challenged, political enemies who Abercrombie despises for disparaging the President and his family despite rational evidence that proves you’re lying and full of crap?

    Your whole trailer park must be proud.

  341. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? No lies. Just statements of fact – well documented and verifiable.

    .

    Fukino said she saw it. Abercrombie says he can’t find it. Those are absolute factual statements. Well, the logical answer is for Abercrombie to pick up the phone, yes?

    .

    Before you make your next hot headed, irrational response, may i suggest that for a clearer perspective on things that you remove your head from your ass.

  342. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 21, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    lester: Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? No lies. Just statements of fact – well documented and verifiable. .Fukino said she saw it. Abercrombie says he can’t find it. Those are absolute factual statements. Well, the logical answer is for Abercrombie to pick up the phone, yes?.Before you make your next hot headed, irrational response, may i suggest that for a clearer perspective on things that you remove your head from your ass.

    Abercrombie never said he couldn’t find it in fact he specifically they had found it and its there. As usual birthers read something and come to the opposite conclusion of what an article actually says.

  343. avatar
    Dave January 21, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    Honestly, Lester, the latest birther thing is asserting that Abercrombie said he can’t find the President’s birth certificate — an assertion that is never attached to a quote by Abercrombie. Somebody just made this up, and now all the birthers are repeating it as if repetition will make it true.

    Tell you what, show us a quote in which Abercrombie says he cannot find the President’s birth certificate, and we’ll take it from there.

  344. avatar
    Greg January 21, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    lester: Oh, he’s having difficulty finding it alright. It’s in the press – literally all over the world.

    Do you understand what a “quote” is? It’s where you write down exactly what a person says.

    Please, quote me where Abercrombie SAID that he was having difficulty finding the document. Remember, here’s what the paper said:

    And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records…

    Not even the paper says he SAID it. They say he SUGGESTED it!

    But, the great and powerful lester can see things that the paper cannot. HE says that Abercrombie SAID IT!

    Okay, lester, here’s the original interview. Let’s see if YOU can do this QUOTE thing the papers cannot.

    Quote the exact sentence where Abercrombie says he is having difficulty finding the document.

    Or, if you admit you’re wrong, quote the exact sentence where Abercrombie SUGGESTS he is having difficulty finding the document.

    Why do you guys hate the English language so much?

  345. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    Dave, first, thank you for your civility. The “tell you what” approach is exactly what is needed – on both sides of the aisle. Noisewater has got problem or another going on – as evidenced by his hostile discourse. Regardless, two wrongs don’t make a right and so i apologize for my ass crack (pun intended) i made in my previous post.

    The article i produced the link to above reads in part:

    .
    He told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser: ‘It actually exists in the archives, written down,’ he said.
    But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.
    And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.
    He said efforts were still being made to track down definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BhBAksfZ

    .

    This tells me that Abercrombie is looking for it, but is having difficulty finding it. Is that an unreasonable reading of these words? Seriously.

  346. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    lester: Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?No lies.Just statements of fact – well documented and verifiable..Fukino said she saw it.Abercrombie says he can’t find it.Those are absolute factual statements.Well, the logical answer is for Abercrombie to pick up the phone, yes?.Before you make your next hot headed, irrational response, may i suggest that for a clearer perspective on things that you remove your head from your ass.

    Lester – this is a straightforward response to you.

    The reason you’ve generated some less than kind remarks is because you opened the door to making yourself look foolish by quoting second-hand tabloid renditions of the account, instead of the ACTUAL article from the Star Advertiser, which is the actual SOURCE interview.

    If you read the ACTUAL SOURCE article and then re-read those others…you will see that these others you were basing your post off of have completely twisted and mangled the story and are basing their assumptions on promises and words that were never actually said.

    It is either bad journalism or intentional journalistic malpractice. Either way, by going off on a rant and pointing to those bunk pieces as your source, you only make yourself look gullible. Gullible folks often end up as the butt of jokes, because openly putting yourself out there on wrong information makes you look foolish at best or “not to bright”…

    So face it, you’ve been had. Suck it up. Accept that your premise was based on bad info, which you got suckered into and try to move on. Maybe next time, you’ll be wiser and try to dig a bit deeper and look for the source to find what really happened and was said before you boldly post something based on faulty reporting.

    You only made yourself look worse in your last comment, because the answer and SOURCE was given to you directly above your own post. Maybe you were busy typing your response when it was posting and did not see it. I’m willing to try to give you that benefit of the doubt for now, so here it is for you again, for your benefit:

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Do you often get your news from a tabloid site? The notion that Abercrombie can’t find it is based on illiteracy. Namingly birthers not being able to read the actual interview and what he actually said.

    Instead of going to a third party tabloid read the original interview.

    http://www.staradvertiser.com/editorials/20110118_This_is_a_collaborative_endeavor.html

    “It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down …

    …What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.”

    He clearly states it exists in their archives.

  347. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    lester: Before you make your next hot headed, irrational response, may i suggest that for a clearer perspective on things that you remove your head from your ass.

    BOOM ! !

    Another exploding irony meter.

    We’re probably going to need quite a few more for this poster.

    Will someone alert the irony meter factory, please?

  348. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 21, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    lester: Dave,first, thank you for your civility.The “tell you what” approach is exactly what is needed – on both sides of the aisle.Noisewater has got problem or another going on– as evidenced by his hostile discourse.Regardless, two wrongs don’t make a right and so i apologize for my ass crack (pun intended) i made in my previous post.The article i produced the link to above reads in part:.
    He told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser: It actually exists in the archives, written down,’ he said.
    But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.
    And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.
    He said efforts were still being made to track down definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BhBAksfZ.This tells me that Abercrombie is looking for it, but is having difficulty finding it.Is that an unreasonable reading of these words?Seriously.

    So when asked to quote from the original interview you defer back to the tabloid site putting words in his mouth, where in the original interview did the governor say he couldn’t find it?

  349. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 1:39 pm #

    “literally all over the world”

    Literally. All over the world. Did anyone check with the Korowai in New Guinea or the Tuareg people in Northern Mali to be absolutely sure?

  350. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    The New York Times has become tabloid (somewhat less than reliable) too. Where do you think the Monica Lewinsky story first surfaced? – the Drudge Report. Where did the John Edwards story first surface? – the National Enquirer.
    .
    Damn the source if you will, but facts are facts, regardless of who reports them – and the dear governor has yet to secure a copy of the certicate as he said he would. That is just a fact. Headlines would have been made otherwise.

  351. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    lester: Damn the source if you will, but facts are facts, regardless of who reports them – and the dear governor has yet to secure a copy of the certicate as he said he would. That is just a fact. Headlines would have been made otherwise.

    Lester, again…SHOW us from the ACTUAL SOURCE interview where Abercrombie ever said he was going to secure a copy of the certificate…

    He simply NEVER has actually said that. Others keep trying to put words into his mouth but the only actual FACT here is what can be shown that Abercrombie himself has said –

    To date…there are ZERO actual statements that came directly from him in which he said what you wish to believe.

    ALL of his quotes or interviews to date have simply said he would LOOK INTO the matter to see what can be released.

    All the speculative tabloid journalism reporting on this has hyped this story so far into way more than it is and has led a lot of folks to false expectations.

    Sorry to let you down.

  352. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    lester: Damn the source if you will, but facts are facts, regardless of who reports them – and the dear governor has yet to secure a copy of the certicate as he said he would. That is just a fact. Headlines would have been made otherwise

    Or, a simpler way to put it. Facts are ONLY facts…if they are actual FACTS.

    Simply speculating on something and then reporting that speculation doesn’t make it true. Such is NOT FACT.

    Mangling or getting the source facts wrong and then reporting the wrong info or wrong conclusion does not make it true either. Such is NOT FACT.

    Saying a l.i.e. over and over again does not make it any less of a l.i.e. Such is NOT FACT.

    Hopefully, you’ve learned something today.

  353. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 2:16 pm #

    SqueekyFromm:
    You do not have to ban me, I will go.

    Apparently she managed to troll enough material to support her martyr complex.

  354. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    My goodness. I’m not talking about speculation in the least. If the governor had produced a copy by now that would be just as much of a fact as if he had not. Surely you are not saying that he HAS produced it? I would argue that stating that he can if he wanted to, or had the time or desire to, is more in line with what meets a definition of speculation.

  355. avatar
    Joey January 21, 2011 at 2:19 pm #

    The fact remains that if Governor Lingle could send Dr. Fukino and Dr. Onaka over to the Department of Health records division to personally view the Obama birth certificate, why hasn’t Governor Abercrombie done the exact same thing with his employees?
    His orginal statement on this issue was made weeks ago.

  356. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    G:
    Or, a simpler way to put it.Facts are ONLY facts…if they are actual FACTS.Simply speculating on something and then reporting that speculation doesn’t make it true.Such is NOT FACT.Mangling or getting the source facts wrong and then reporting the wrong info or wrong conclusion does not make it true either.Such is NOT FACT.Saying a l.i.e. over and over again does not make it any less of a l.i.e.Such is NOT FACT.Hopefully, you’ve learned something today.

    Maybe for next Christmas we can buy the birthers a copy of a English to Birtherese translating dictionary… assuming we can find one that can read English, of course.

  357. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    Joey: The fact remains that if Governor Lingle could send Dr. Fukino and Dr. Onaka over to the Department of Health records division to personally view the Obama birth certificate, why hasn’t Governor Abercrombie done the exact same thing with his employees?
    His orginal statement on this issue was made weeks ago.

    You don’t really have a good grasp of the whole “what was actually said” concept, in either instance…. do you….

  358. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    lester: and the dear governor has yet to secure a copy of the certicate as he said he would.

    Why is that so important to you?

    In other words, since born in the U.S. and date of birth are the two criteria necessary to directly satisfy two of the three Constitutional eligibility requirements and that is the information that has been provided and certified by the state of Hawaii, why would any other archived data matter?

    Do you think you have a right by law to any other archived information?

  359. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 2:44 pm #

    The notion of “Trust but verify” applies to more than just arms control agreements. It is unreasonable to think that a government official – a governor, a health department head – may not always tell us the truth? What harm is there is asking for some proof behind those words. “Oh yes. I’ve seen it. Trust me…”

    .

    We could just as easily turn the question around and ask you/others why it is so important that we NOT go down the verification road. Seeing is believing, brother. You, too, even as an ardent (I’m guessing) Obama supporter, should insist on seeing – helping to keep ALL politicians a little more honest and open in the process.

  360. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 21, 2011 at 2:52 pm #

    lester: The New York Times has become tabloid (somewhat less than reliable) too. Where do you think the Monica Lewinsky story first surfaced? – the Drudge Report. Where did the John Edwards story first surface? – the National Enquirer..Damn the source if you will, but facts are facts, regardless of who reports them – and the dear governor has yet to secure a copy of the certicate as he said he would. That is just a fact. Headlines would have been made otherwise.

    When I look at the times and they show a quote especially one that links back to an interview and I go and look at that interview and see they match up it shows they’re a bit more reliable than your daily news site which completely lies about what was said by the governor and uses as little quoting as possible and instead says what they say he says.

  361. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    lester: My goodness. I’m not talking about speculation in the least. If the governor had produced a copy by now that would be just as much of a fact as if he had not. Surely you are not saying that he HAS produced it? I would argue that stating that he can if he wanted to, or had the time or desire to, is more in line with what meets a definition of speculation.

    No. Nobody has said that.

    You seem to not pay attention to what people actually say and instead change the subject to whatever conversation you are having in your own head.

    I’m trying to have a fair and reasonable conversation with you, but it is difficult when you demonstrate difficulty with comprehending what is actually said and go off onto tangents and arguments completely of your own making.

    The only actual FACT here is that Abercrombie hasn’t actually PROMISED to produce any document at all.

    The ONLY thing he’s promised to do is ask about what exists and can be done. If the answers come back no different than everything we’ve heard already in the past from Fukino, etc., then he’s still accomplished what he actually said he would do.

    If some new document comes forth..woo-hoo! If not, oh well.

    The point is you pine both your hopes and accusations on expectations that were never actually promised. Therefore, if you hold to demanding results that were never even promised in the first place, you have not only set yourself up for disappointment but also lead yourself open to continuing to look both foolish and gullible.

  362. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    All’s i know is it is foolish and gullible to not ask for verification.

  363. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 21, 2011 at 3:00 pm #

    lester: The notion of “Trust but verify” applies to more than just arms control agreements. It is unreasonable to think that a government official – a governor, a health department head – may not always tell us the truth? What harm is there is asking for some proof behind those words. “Oh yes. I’ve seen it. Trust me…”.We could just as easily turn the question around and ask you/others why it is so important that we NOT go down the verification road. Seeing is believing, brother. You, too, even as an ardent (I’m guessing) Obama supporter, should insist on seeing – helping to keep ALL politicians a little more honest and open in the process.

    Ah the good old I don’t have any proof the state official is lying but I’m just going to claim it anyway since I can’t back up what I said notion. It’s unreasonable for you to be suspicious of state officials when you have nothing to back up your suspicion. The COLB is the legal document the state uses. The Full Faith and Credit Clause gives it power. So how do we go about keeping you birthers a bit more honest?

  364. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    lester: The notion of “Trust but verify” applies to more than just arms control agreements. It is unreasonable to think that a government official – a governor, a health department head – may not always tell us the truth? What harm is there is asking for some proof behind those words. “Oh yes. I’ve seen it. Trust me…”

    There’s also the concept of confirmation bias, which you birthers have in abundance.

    In other words you’ll never believe the official documentation of the state, two state Governors, a host of state and federal officials, forensic experts, the entire elected opposition, and every legal and constitutional expert in the country, no matter how much substantive and objective evidence is presented, but…..

    Let any Conspiracy blog, supermarket tabloid, or right wingnut propaganda site draw an erroneous conclusion based on speculation, conjecture, or outright fabrication….. and that’s what you cling to.

    And you wonder why, after two years of the same old crap, over and over, from birther nutbags, we don’t take you seriously.

  365. avatar
    Scientist January 21, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    lester: We could just as easily turn the question around and ask you/others why it is so important that we NOT go down the verification road.

    I couldn’t care either way. I can say personally that if I took the trouble to write to my birthplace and get an official birth certificate, I would expect it to be honored and would definitely take offense if some clowns who know nothing about either birth certificates or me immediately accused me of fraud. The COLB is more than any other presidential candidate has ever shown in all of history and contains all the necessary information. but if someone feels like wasting time in dusty old archives when they could be enjoying the lovely beaches of Hawaii, that’s their call.

    Frankly, I don’t give a damn either way (hope that doesn’t trigger the filters). Why do YOU care?

  366. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 3:02 pm #

    Joey: The fact remains that if Governor Lingle could send Dr. Fukino and Dr. Onaka over to the Department of Health records division to personally view the Obama birth certificate, why hasn’t Governor Abercrombie done the exact same thing with his employees?
    His orginal statement on this issue was made weeks ago.

    Well, you are correct on one point – that his original statement on this issue was made weeks ago.

    Where your assumption fails is that you’ve made the same mistake of going off of the speculative bad reporting that has ensued and made this into a bigger story than it actually is, instead of looking at what Abercrombie actually ever said – both then and now and in every verifiable statement he’s made on this issue in between.

    He’s NEVER promised to personally view or obtain anything.

    He’s ONLY promised to inquire into the issue. So, if he goes no further than asking someone in the DOH with sufficient knowledge and authority to explain things to him so he can understand it properly, than he’s fully accomplished what he ACTUALLY promised to do.

    If he takes it further than that…or something more comes from it than that, well great… but he’s never actually promised to do any of those things.

    Therefore, you too are basing your judgments on expectations that were never actually made.

  367. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 3:08 pm #

    lester: The notion of “Trust but verify” applies to more than just arms control agreements. It is unreasonable to think that a government official – a governor, a health department head – may not always tell us the truth? What harm is there is asking for some proof behind those words. “Oh yes. I’ve seen it. Trust me…”

    .

    We could just as easily turn the question around and ask you/others why it is so important that we NOT go down the verification road. Seeing is believing, brother. You, too, even as an ardent (I’m guessing) Obama supporter, should insist on seeing – helping to keep ALL politicians a little more honest and open in the process.

    Oh the ironic hypocrisy!

    Why don’t you start by applying your whole “trust but verify” spiel, yourself?

    When you come here making assumptions based off of 2nd-hand and 3rd hand tabloid articles instead of spending a few minutes to look into the issue yourself first and find the actual source article…

    ..well…you’re not quite the model demonstration of someone who actually “verifies” anything before spouting off, are you?

    Sorry, but you’ve already completely blown any credibility you could have on railing for such idealistic notions from your very own actions.

    Try taking your own advice first if you expect anyone to take you seriously.

  368. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 3:09 pm #

    ” couldn’t care either way. I can say personally that if I took the trouble to write to my birthplace and get an official birth certificate, I would expect it to be honored and would definitely take offense if some clowns who know nothing about either birth certificates or me immediately accused me of fraud.”
    .
    I’d hardly call this “immediately”…the battle to hide this certificate has been going on for two and a half years now – since before he was elected.

  369. avatar
    Joey January 21, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    G: Well, you are correct on one point – that his original statement on this issue was made weeks ago.Where your assumption fails is that you’ve made the same mistake of going off of the speculative bad reporting that has ensued and made this into a bigger story than it actually is, instead of looking at what Abercrombie actually ever said – both then and now and in every verifiable statement he’s made on this issue in between.He’s NEVER promised to personally view or obtain anything.He’s ONLY promised to inquire into the issue. So, if he goes no further than asking someone in the DOH with sufficient knowledge and authority to explain things to him so he can understand it properly, than he’s fully accomplished what he ACTUALLY promised to do.If he takes it further than that…or something more comes from it than that, well great… but he’s never actually promised to do any of those things.Therefore, you too are basing your judgments on expectations that were never actually made.

    You might be right. I guess I’ve just been hoping beyond hope that the simple production of a document would shut down the “Obama wasn’t born in America” cabal of birtherism.
    When I looked at the raw politics of the issue, I saw the previous Republican administration issuing statements that would allow the issue to stay alive and give Obama the absolute minimum of back up. I have been hoping that the new Democratic Administration would end this issue (not ALL birtherism but “not born in Hawaii” birtherism) once and for all.

  370. avatar
    Scientist January 21, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    lester: I’d hardly call this “immediately”…the battle to hide this certificate has been going on for two and a half years now – since before he was elected.

    The COLB was called a fraud within 24 hours of when it was posted.

    I mean, let’s be serious, supposing I asked you for your b.c. and you ordered one and got it and I immediately said it was a fraud. You’d slug me and I’d deserve it. And how exactly would you go about “veriifying” your b.c., beyond ordering another copy of the exact same thing?

    And why exactly do you care?

  371. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 21, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    lester: All’s i know is it is foolish and gullible to not ask for verification.

    It is foolish and gullible to continue asking for verification after you’ve been given multiple verification. It makes it look less about the requirements for president and more about who Obama is

  372. avatar
    Scientist January 21, 2011 at 3:27 pm #

    Lester: I have a standing challenge to test the proposition that all birthers are 100% anti-Obama and wouldn’t vote for him no matter what. You have the opportunity to disprove my postulate if you can honestly say, “If there were a long form b.c. that showed all the same information as the COLB, and included a hospital and doctor, I would vote for Obama in 2012”. Since I doubt you can say that, I have to assume you would never support Obama under any circumstances. And if that is the case, then what would seeing the long form change for you?

  373. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    Scientist,
    I wouldn’t slug you and if i did, you wouldn’t deserve it. This whole question of verification gets down to the difference (if any – and i contend there is a difference) between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. That’s a whole ‘nother discussion, I know.

  374. avatar
    Dave January 21, 2011 at 3:31 pm #

    lester: The article i produced the link to above reads in part:.
    He told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser: It actually exists in the archives, written down,’ he said.
    But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.
    And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.
    He said efforts were still being made to track down definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348916/Hawaii-governor-says-Obamas-birth-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1BhBAksfZ.This tells me that Abercrombie is looking for it, but is having difficulty finding it.Is that an unreasonable reading of these words?Seriously.

    I see there has been a lot of discussion on this thread since this comment, which unfortunately I don’t have time to read right now, so forgive me if I’m just repeating what others have said.

    The problem is not that you are misreading the Daily Mail article. It is that the Daily Mail based their article on an interview in the Star Advertiser, and they claim Abercrombie said things he did not in fact say. The interview can be found here. Only a small part of the interview is on this subject, but what he says bears no relation to the Dail Mail’s characterization of his comments. You can read it for yourself.

  375. avatar
    Scientist January 21, 2011 at 3:33 pm #

    lester: Scientist,I wouldn’t slug you and if i did, you wouldn’t deserve it. This whole question of verification gets down to the difference (if any – and i contend there is a difference) between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. That’s a whole nother discussion, I know.

    So Lester, if the place you were born issued only 1 of those and I demanded the other, we’d be at an impasse. When impasses happen, the smart thing to do is to move on.

  376. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    You would be right in that case. But that is not the case here. There are indeed long form Birth Certificates available for the State of Hawaii in that time frame in question.

  377. avatar
    obsolete January 21, 2011 at 3:39 pm #

    Birthers never had a reason not to trust Dr. Fukino, who verified Obama’s birth in Hawaii as per her job handling Hawaii’s official records.

    Hawaii: Obama birth certificate is real
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm
    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.”

  378. avatar
    Scientist January 21, 2011 at 3:41 pm #

    lester: You would be right in that case. But that is not the case here. There are indeed long form Birth Certificates available for the State of Hawaii in that time frame in question.

    Show me one issued in the last 5 years.

    Also, please answer whether would you vote for Obama if he somehow got one and showed it to you? Please, this is an important scientific experiment. I am in quest of the pro-Obama birther and will not sleep until iIfind one.

  379. avatar
    Rickey January 21, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    lester:d.”
    .
    I’d hardly call this “immediately”…the battle to hide this certificate has been going on for two and a half years now – since before he was elected.

    You can’t come here and expect to have a reasoned argument if you can’t even bother to get your facts straight.

    1. Governor Abercrombie never promised to release Obama’s “long-form” birth certificate. Governor Abercrombie doesn’t have the authority to release Obama’s “long-form” birth certificate. He promised to see if there are other records which he can release which might satisfy people such as you. That tells me that he is looking for things such as contemporaneous logs or correspondence which will show that the birth certificate was received from the hospital, when it was received, etc.

    2. Since Governor Abercrombie has no authority to release the “long form,” there is no reason why he would be looking for it. In the original interview, he never mentions the birth certificate. So the idea that he can’t find the birth certificate is totally a figment of Jerome Corsi’s overheated imagination. Rags such as the Drudge Report and The Daily Mail then unquestioningly repeated Corsi’s lies. The fact is that there is nothing in Abercrombie’s interview which “suggests” that the “long form” birth certificate does not exist.

  380. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 3:47 pm #

    We are told, by Hawaiian officials, that most people on this blog, seem to trust implicitly, that the Birth Certificate – not the COLB – has been SEEN in HI Vital Records. Maybe we should ask them to produce what they claim to have seen.
    .
    No, i would not vote for Obama even if he presented me personally with his certificate. It’s a matter of political direction that i have a problem with on that count. On the certificate front, my “problem” if you will is that i believe in the sanctity (i can hear the cringes now) of the Constitution. I would on the other hand be settled in my mind as to his legitimacy of holding the office – which is not little thing. It would be settled in my mind.
    .
    As to finding the pro-Obama birther – i hope you don’t have to wait that long before you can sleep. Sleep deprivation is a terrible thing. Ask anyone who has had a kid. Chris Matthews might qualify on that, though, considering his recent statements.

  381. avatar
    Joey January 21, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    lester: We are told, by Hawaiian officials, that most people on this blog, seem to trust implicitly, that the Birth Certificate – not the COLB – has been SEEN in HI Vital Records. Maybe we should ask them to produce what they claim to have seen..No, i would not vote for Obama even if he presented me personally with his certificate. It’s a matter of political direction that i have a problem with on that count. On the certificate front, my “problem” if you will is that i believe in the sanctity (i can hear the cringes now) of the Constitution. I would on the other hand be settled in my mind as to his legitimacy of holding the office – which is not little thing. It would be settled in my mind..As to finding the pro-Obama birther – i hope you don’t have to wait that long before you can sleep. Sleep deprivation is a terrible thing. Ask anyone who has had a kid. Chris Matthews might qualify on that, though, considering his recent statements.

    Under Hawaii law, Obama’s birth records can be released without Obama’s permission to (and I quote the law) “a person whose right to inspect or obtain a certitied copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction.”
    I think Lester owes his explanation for why no one who is concerned about Obama’s eligibility has simply sought a subpoena for the birth record and why in the several weeks since the Republicans took control of the House, there has been no congressional subpoena issued for Obama’s birth records.
    In fact, the new Speaker of the House, John Boehner is quoted as saying: “The state of Hawaii says that the President was born there. That’s good enough for me.”

  382. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 3:59 pm #

    Joey: You might be right. I guess I’ve just been hoping beyond hope that the simple production of a document would shut down the “Obama wasn’t born in America” cabal of birtherism.
    When I looked at the raw politics of the issue, I saw the previous Republican administration issuing statements that would allow the issue to stay alive and give Obama the absolute minimum of back up. I have been hoping that the new Democratic Administration would end this issue (not ALL birtherism but “not born in Hawaii” birtherism) once and for all.

    Joey –

    While I admire your “hoping beyond hope”, sadly it is not very likely or realistic to expect that any additional release of information will tamper down the birthers and their nonsense one bit.

    Abercrombie’s own statements and actions appear to be born out of that same sincere desire that you have… which is already proving how naive such notions are of thinking that anything will stop the crazy.

    From the moment he naively made his first public statement in December to merely LOOK INTO the issue, his words were quickly twisted about and endlessly spread around to at best, set him up for failure and demand much more than he ever promised and at worst, often used completely out of context to say and imply the OPPOSITE of anything he said.

    The birthers never have been honest about their desire for answers here and that is what you have to accept to realize that pandering to their fake concern trolling for more information is not going to accomplish anything.

    They are deceiving you when they claim to only want more info. They don’t really want the truth at all…they just want Obama out of office and anything that does not help them achieve that will be ignored or twisted and shamelessly l.i.e.d about.

    Facts don’t matter to these people. Documents don’t matter either. This is not about “truth” for birthers. This is about their petty little hate based conspiracy smear campaign.

    Open your eyes and take a look at how EVERY development and bit of info that has been provided over the past 2 years has been treated by the birthers – they ignore EVERY piece of actual evidence, which ALL backs up his NBC status and just endlessly move the goal posts to some other crazy claim.

    Every bit of birther myth and l.i.e. that they’ve put out there gets endlessly recycled, no matter how thoroughly it has been shredded and debunked. Nothing deters their need to maintain their fantasy l.i.e.s or puts ANY of their debunked garbage to rest.

    They merely lay low on a trashed meme for awhile and then try to resurrect that exact same l.i.e. a few months later, hoping nobody will notice and that if can only just slip it into conversation and repeat it without being caught that people will gullibly buy into it.

    This sad cycle has already been repeated numerous times within just the past few years, so there is no reason to expect that anything will deter or change that.

    You need to just accept that these are a small group of loud, whiny dishonest people driven by hate that are completely unreachable, totally disingenuous and hopelessly irrelevant.

  383. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 21, 2011 at 4:01 pm #

    lester: Scientist,I wouldn’t slug you and if i did, you wouldn’t deserve it. This whole question of verification gets down to the difference (if any – and i contend there is a difference) between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. That’s a whole nother discussion, I know.

    Its not a whole discussion as the COLB is a birth certificate and is the form of birth certificate that Hawaii releases. There’s no difference between the words.

  384. avatar
    Joey January 21, 2011 at 4:08 pm #

    G: Joey -While I admire your “hoping beyond hope”, sadly it is not very likely or realistic to expect that any additional release of information will tamper down the birthers and their nonsense one bit.Abercrombie’s own statements and actions appear to be born out of that same sincere desire that you have… which is already proving how naive such notions are of thinking that anything will stop the crazy.From the moment he naively made his first public statement in December to merely LOOK INTO the issue, his words were quickly twisted about and endlessly spread around to at best, set him up for failure and demand much more than he ever promised and at worst, often used completely out of context to say and imply the OPPOSITE of anything he said.The birthers never have been honest about their desire for answers here and that is what you have to accept to realize that pandering to their fake concern trolling for more information is not going to accomplish anything.They are deceiving you when they claim to only want more info. They don’t really want the truth at all…they just want Obama out of office and anything that does not help them achieve that will be ignored or twisted and shamelessly l.i.e.d about.Facts don’t matter to these people. Documents don’t matter either. This is not about “truth” for birthers. This is about their petty little hate based conspiracy smear campaign.Open your eyes and take a look at how EVERY development and bit of info that has been provided over the past 2 years has been treated by the birthers – they ignore EVERY piece of actual evidence, which ALL backs up his NBC status and just endlessly move the goal posts to some other crazy claim.Every bit of birther myth and l.i.e. that they’ve put out there gets endlessly recycled, no matter how thoroughly it has been shredded and debunked. Nothing deters their need to maintain their fantasy l.i.e.s or puts ANY of their debunked garbage to rest. They merely lay low on a trashed meme for awhile and then try to resurrect that exact same l.i.e. a few months later, hoping nobody will notice and that if can only just slip it into conversation and repeat it without being caught that people will gullibly buy into it. This sad cycle has already been repeated numerous times within just the past few years, so there is no reason to expect that anything will deter or change that.You need to just accept that these are a small group of loud, whiny dishonest people driven by hate that are completely unreachable, totally disingenuous and hopelessly irrelevant.

    Yeah, I hear you. I live on an intermittent schedule of reinforcement, and every once in a while, things go exactly the way I want them to go!
    I realize that if a long form magically appeared in Abercrombie’s hand, the birthers would immediately scream “forgery.” But I would still love to take just one more myth away from those who are “on the fence” on this issue.

  385. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 4:12 pm #

    Joey: Under Hawaii law, Obama’s birth records can be released without Obama’s permission to (and I quote the law) “a person whose right to inspect or obtain a certitied copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction.”

    Joey –

    Just a point of clarification:

    The point there is that such information could be released ONLY to people with the AUTHORITY and RIGHT to see that information.

    That does NOT allow such information to be provided to the PUBLIC at large. That would violate various privacy acts.

    It is why Fukino has the right to see the info and say she has seen it. It is also why she can’t then post and give what she’s seen out to the general public.

    Simple as that.

  386. avatar
    Scientist January 21, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    Darn, I’m coming to think i will never find a pro-Obama birther.

    As far as eligibility, it is far from clear that Obama would not be elligible even if he were born outside the US (though he wasn’t). His mother’s marriage was of questionable validity and it’s not clear to me how the matter would be decided. If I had to guess, I would guess eligible.

    As for settling your mind, your doubts and fears, are, quite frankly, your own problem, not the President’s.

  387. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 4:17 pm #

    lester: This whole question of verification gets down to the difference (if any – and i contend there is a difference) between a Birth Certificate and a COLB.That’s a whole nother discussion, I know.

    Your ridiculously and factually incorrect contention is noted.

    Do you contend there is a difference between Baloney and Bologna? Or between Ketchup and Catsup? How about the difference between KD and Kraft Dinner?

    If so…how adamantly would you cling to your contention, even if it overwhelming objective evidence that disagreed with it were given you?

    That’s OK, you’ve already provided the answer to that last question.

  388. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 4:19 pm #

    Joey: But I would still love to take just one more myth away from those who are “on the fence” on this issue.

    If this really was your honest intention, then you would realize by now that birthers never give up their myths, and create new one’s as required.

    That’s why it would be a mistake for Obama to even address that nutcase fringe element.

  389. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    Daniel, your argument is full of baloney. There is a demonstrable difference between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. Look on the web and you will easily find, see and comprehend those differences. Come on, now.

  390. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    Joey: why in the several weeks since the Republicans took control of the House, there has been no congressional subpoena issued for Obama’s birth records.
    In fact, the new Speaker of the House, John Boehner is quoted as saying: “The state of Hawaii says that the President was born there. That’s good enough for me.”

    That’s easy.

    Boehner knows the law, and the Republicans ALSO regard the birthers as nutbags.

  391. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    G:
    Joey –
    Just a point of clarification:The point there is that such information could be released ONLY to people with the AUTHORITY and RIGHT to see that information.That does NOT allow such information to be provided to the PUBLIC at large.That would violate various privacy acts.It is why Fukino has the right to see the info and say she has seen it.It is also why she can’t then post and give what she’s seen out to the general public.Simple as that.

    The last thing he would want to do is put any kind of official document into the hands of the general public due to what they did to the document he put on the internet back in 2008 – they altered it and claimed that it was a forgery. One of the past trolls here called for him to do that, yet she herself said that she wouldn’t publish any of her personal information or legal documents for us to view due to the fact that she is afraid that someone may use them for nefarious purposes. President Obama has plenty of enemies, not the least of which are racists, who would definitely do something untoward with it. They expect President Obama to throw caution to the wind and do something they themselves would not do.

  392. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    lester: Daniel, your argument is full of baloney.There is a demonstrable difference between a Birth Certificate and a COLB.Look on the web and you will easily find, see and comprehend those differences.Come on, now.

    In the birther universe that may be true.

    However, in the real world, for Hawaii (and most other states for that matter), the COLB is the Birth Certiicate.

    The difference, is only in YOUR mind.

    Which is why you can’t get the Republicans to champion your cause, why you can’t win a court case, and why you can’t get more than a handful of people out to any of your birther rallies.

  393. avatar
    Scientist January 21, 2011 at 4:28 pm #

    lester: There is a demonstrable difference between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. Look on the web and you will easily find, see and comprehend those differences. Come on, now.

    lester, you admitted you would oppose Obama even if he showed you 100 birth documents. So you lack, what, in business negotiations, is called leverage. The only folks who have leverage are those whose vote would be changed by those documents. And there appears to be no one who falls into that class. This may seem crass to you, but it’s how the world works.

  394. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 4:28 pm #

    lester: Daniel, your argument is full of baloney.

    Would that be baloney, or bologna? And what, pray tell, do you contend is the difference BWAHAHAHA!!

  395. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 4:28 pm #

    lester: Daniel, your argument is full of baloney.There is a demonstrable difference between a Birth Certificate and a COLB.Look on the web and you will easily find, see and comprehend those differences.Come on, now.

    Yeah, they look different, but according to the issuing agency

    (b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

    http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0013.HTM

  396. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

    Scientist, I only need 1 document, not 100. I also didn’t vote for john mccain and he showed his birth certificate. Just because a man or a woman has a valid birth certificate doesn’t make me want to vote for that person. I know that is not your criteria in deciding upon which candidate to vote for.

  397. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    lester: john mccain and he showed his birth certificate.

    He didn’t release it to the public though, now did he? And yet you accept his BC without question. But Obama, who did release his BC to the public, you refuse to believe.

    I wonder, what is the difference between McCain and Obama, that you accept one blindly, but not the other?

  398. avatar
    Scientist January 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    lester: I also didn’t vote for john mccain and he showed his birth certificate

    Can you show me it?

  399. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    The COLB is absolute proof that President Obama was born in Hawaii, and even the speaker of the House said that Hawaii’s confirmation of that event is adequate enough for the body whose duty it is to ensure that the president is eligible. All irrational others can believe whatever they want, but when Congress says that he’s legit, he’s legit.

  400. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    Oh, please. You guys just like to argue, i guess. McCain showed his to the Senate – and it was a long form type – with the hospital, attending physician, and all that. The whole arguement about the COLB is what it represents – what it shows and what it doesn’t show. they are different in more ways than just simple “appearance” as someone earlier suggested.

  401. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    lester: Oh, please.You guys just like to argue, i guess.McCain showed his to the Senate – and it was a long form type – with the hospital, attending physician, and all that.The whole arguement about the COLB is what it represents – what it shows and what it doesn’t show.they are different in more ways than just simple “appearance” as someone earlier suggested.

    Forgive my ignorance, but where, exactly in the Constitution does it say that a President must have a BC that includes the name of the hospital, etc?

    In fact, what federal agency requires of any applicant that their BC include the name of the hospital et?

  402. avatar
    Scientist January 21, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    Just an interesting point, regarding Bovril’s attempt to estimate how many birthers there are. Every birther that comes here says he voted for someone other than Obama or McCain. All the minor candidates got a little over 1%. So, assuming the birthers bothered to vote, that is about their representation in the population. In fact, I suspect most of them would be in the 0.15% that voted for the Constitution Party.

  403. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    Lester,

    I’ve tried to be fair and kind to you and hold honest dialogue so far, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that you are not here for honest dialogue at all and are nothing but another committed Birther popping up here with an insincere “concern trolling” campaign of propaganda.

    This isn’t the first time on here that a “Lester” has popped up and started off with seemingly innocent “why can’t he” questions that quickly devolved into spewing the standard Birther litany of l.i.e.s. and failed arguments that have been completely thrashed and debunked here endlessly.

    Folks, I suspect this is the same “lester” who’s been here in the past with the same lame, failed “concern trolling” agenda. It may have been awhile since you’ve seen him and we’ve seen such an endless parade of these folks and the same arguments, that they are all easily forgettable and blend together…but it is becoming clear that we’re not dealing with anyone who is seriously “curious” or being honest, but is just another die hard disingenuous Birther “concern troll” wasting everyone’s time.

    Look at how his latest posts have devolved to the same old tired nonsense arguments:

    lester: Scientist,
    I wouldn’t slug you and if i did, you wouldn’t deserve it. This whole question of verification gets down to the difference (if any – and i contend there is a difference) between a Birth Certificate and a COLB. That’s a whole nother discussion, I know.

    Let me stop you right there Lester with that tired old Birther L.I.E.

    FACT: A HI COLB is what EVERYBODY requesting a HI BC receives these days. Has been true for well over a decade.

    Said HI COLB is the ACCEPTED document that EVERY license bureau, passport issuing authority or any other government authority here in the U.S.A. would expect and have to ACCEPT as BC proof for someone born in HI.

    Hence, by definition, it is THE VALID DOCUMENT of AUTHORITY for verification of HI BIRTH.

    lester: You would be right in that case. But that is not the case here. There are indeed long form Birth Certificates available for the State of Hawaii in that time frame in question.

    FALSE. See above. Another long debunked Birther lie.

    All any serious person has to do is go to HI’s own DOH website and see the truth that they stopped issuing any “long form” well over a decade ago. Doesn’t matter if such a form was issued or existed long before that. All that matters is that if you request a BC from HI these days, ALL you get is the COLB and that IS THE OFFICIAL DOCUMENT.

    lester:
    We are told, by Hawaiian officials, that most people on this blog, seem to trust implicitly, that the Birth Certificate – not the COLB – has been SEEN in HI Vital Records. Maybe we should ask them to produce what they claim to have seen.

    Again, this has been addressed endlessly on here and only seems reasonable to the truly uneducated.

    One word answer: HIPAA.

    lester:
    No, i would not vote for Obama even if he presented me personally with his certificate.

    Well, probably the first HONEST answer you’ve given here.

    So as any reasonable person can conclude, why should the President care about catering to the whiny whims of you Birthers? If I was in his shoes, I sure wouldn’t.

    The ONLY impact you can have on the President is your VOTE and nothing he could or would do is going to get that from him anyways.

    lester:
    It’s a matter of political direction that i have a problem with on that count. On the certificate front, my “problem” if you will is that i believe in the sanctity (i can hear the cringes now) of the Constitution. I would on the other hand be settled in my mind as to his legitimacy of holding the office – which is not little thing. It would be settled in my mind.

    Ah yes, the tired meme of unhappy folks hiding behind claims of “The Constitution” to falsely justify their petty hatreds and dislike of others who are different from them.

    Sorry, you folks have “cried wolf” with abusing the “Constitution” so many times that this particular whine rings as hollow and unconvincing as it gets.

    As NO REAL EVIDENCE exists that disputes his Constitutional eligibility whatsoever, this is nothing but meaningless whining by people who only demonstrate that they neither follow nor really understand the actual Constitution or how it works.

    lester:
    As to finding the pro-Obama birther – i hope you don’t have to wait that long before you can sleep. Sleep deprivation is a terrible thing. Ask anyone who has had a kid. Chris Matthews might qualify on that, though, considering his recent statements.

    And of course, he tries to pull a “Squeeky” with the false and nonsense claim about Chris Matthews.

    Just another nail in the “concern troll” coffin outing this Birther for what he is.

    Anyone with half a brain or who actually listened to anything Chris Matthews said or repeatedly says about Birthers understands that Chris Matthews is about as far from a “supporter” of Birtherism as it can get. He has repeatedly ranted AGAISNT birthers and has been VERY harsh in his remarks towards them and has openly called them “anti-patriotic” and “crazy”.

    Sorry Lester, we tried to be nice to you, but you’ve fully outed yourself and repeatedly proved that you’re nothing but a hopeless tried-and-true die-hard Birther trying to play at insincere “concern trolling” here.

  404. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    lester: Oh, please.You guys just like to argue, i guess.McCain showed his to the Senate – and it was a long form type – with the hospital, attending physician, and all that.The whole arguement about the COLB is what it represents – what it shows and what it doesn’t show.they are different in more ways than just simple “appearance” as someone earlier suggested.

    Was McCane born in Hawaii? You get what the ruling authority gives out. Hawaii no longer gives out a long form, and the COLB is “considered for all purposes the same as the original.”

    Sorry you don’t like the facts, but any and every legal authority in the United States of America accepts the COLB as rock solid proof that President Obama was born in Hawaii

  405. avatar
    Scientist January 21, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    lester: McCain showed his to the Senate – and it was a long form type – with the hospital, attending physician, and all that

    Can you back this up? I have never heard any Senator say anything on this topic.

    G: lester:
    No, i would not vote for Obama even if he presented me personally with his certificate.
    Well, probably the first HONEST answer you’ve given here.
    So as any reasonable person can conclude, why should the President care about catering to the whiny whims of you Birthers? If I was in his shoes, I sure wouldn’t.
    The ONLY impact you can have on the President is your VOTE and nothing he could or would do is going to get that from him anyways.

    I think you know I agree. Unless there is a block of birthers out there who WOULD vote for Obama if he released some form or other, he should not and will not release jack It’s harsh, but that’s how politics works.

  406. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: The last thing he would want to do is put any kind of official document into the hands of the general public due to what they did to the document he put on the internet back in 2008 – they altered it and claimed that it was a forgery. One of the past trolls here called for him to do that, yet she herself said that she wouldn’t publish any of her personal information or legal documents for us to view due to the fact that she is afraid that someone may use them for nefarious purposes. President Obama has plenty of enemies, not the least of which are racists, who would definitely do something untoward with it. They expect President Obama to throw caution to the wind and do something they themselves would not do.

    Precisely!

    This simple truth cannot be emphasized enough.

    The serious problems that occur with identity theft alone are enough of a real-world problem, even with existing privacy protections in place today, that any reasonable mind fully understands why the individual right to privacy is so important to protect.

  407. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 4:56 pm #

    lester: Oh, please. You guys just like to argue, i guess. McCain showed his to the Senate – and it was a long form type – with the hospital, attending physician, and all that. The whole arguement about the COLB is what it represents – what it shows and what it doesn’t show. they are different in more ways than just simple “appearance” as someone earlier suggested.

    Nope. McCain didn’t even do that.

    The only evidence out there is that he BRIEFLY showed his BC to ONE REPORTER who specifically asked about it.

    And that is it. It has NEVER been released or published and we only have a single reporters statement saying that said reporter saw the document briefly to go on.

    And again with your lame birther nonsense about a COLB.

    You can’t get around the simple fact that EVERY government authority HAS to accept a COLB as BC proof wherever required. ALL license bureau agencies. ALL passport issuances.

    END OF STORY.

  408. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    G:
    Precisely!This simple truth cannot be emphasized enough.The serious problems that occur with identity theft alone are enough of a real-world problem, even with existing privacy protections in place today, that any reasonable mind fully understands why the individual right to privacy is so important to protect.

    And I would further argue, G, that some of those who want it released want it just so that they can use it for those purposes since they know that birthers will believe them instead of the legal authorities that release it; that’s already been proven. Whatever he releases, they will alter it and claim it’s a forgery too. And then we’ll hear about the Hawaiian officials are lying about this new information again. Releasing anything will just throw fuel on the fire. They just want more stuff to renew and further their claims because the fact of the matter is that they are not interested in the truth; they are just interested in repeating the lie over and over and over again.

  409. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    Daniel, this shows me you are not honest in your intentions:

    Forgive my ignorance, but where, exactly in the Constitution does it say that a President must have a BC that includes the name of the hospital, etc?

    .
    Of course it doesn’t say in so many words anything about a “birth certificate”. But the qualifications to be President are clear…”…natural born citizen…” and that is what the whole controversy is about. How does one go about proving that? It used to be the family Bible. Today it is a birth certificate.

    What is the value of seeing the hospital, attending physician, etc? It is the highest level of proof there is, that’s why. It would absolutely take the wind out of the sails of the primary “Birther” arguement. This should be reason enough for YOU on this blog to wish this document, if it exists, to see the light of day. This is the same reason why Mathews adn the new HI governor said what they said. Produce the damn thing and put this whole “issue” to bed.

  410. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 5:12 pm #

    Here is a copy of McCane’s birth certificate from Hollander v. McCane.

    http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/documents/McCain-SurreplyEx-7-21-08.pdf

    http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/litigation/hollanderv.mccain.php

    It’s clear that it is vintage 1936 and that the authority that holds it, the Department of the Navy, has not digitized their records as many of the US states have. Therefore, when requesting a copy of a birth certificate from the Navy, they issue a copy of what they have on file, which is the original. When Hawaii is queried for a birth certificate, they give out a certified copy of the contents of the original.

    It’s interesting to note that McCane’s BC is called a “Certificate of Birth” or a “Certificate of Live Birth” and not a “Birth Certificate.”

  411. avatar
    lester January 21, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    FUTTHE..thank you for posting that.

  412. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 5:16 pm #

    Congress is never going to ask for President Obama’s “birth certificate” because they know he was born there and that they must accept the certified copy as proof that he was born there. Once they do that, the issue is resolved, and they can’t milk it for political gain anymore. The last thing they want to do is put an official end to the lunacy.

  413. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 5:19 pm #

    Just FUT is fine, no need for the THE

  414. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    lester: What is the value of seeing the hospital, attending physician, etc? It is the highest level of proof there is, that’s why.

    Who decided that? You? It’s not law. How is the highest? It’s better than DNA?

    So, who are you? Seriously. Were you granted legal authority to decide that?

    Are you on a special committee?

    When did that decision happen? In 2008? Really? What did you demand of G. W. Bush?

    If not, why not? Have you verified Bush’s long form BC? You have, right? Was he legally eligible to be in office? How do you know? Did you personally verify McCain’s credentials? The state of Hawaii verified Obama’s.

    Please explain how the hospital name and physician became qualifications and who decided?

    Or is interpreting the Constitution up to anonymous birthers now?

    Should every single citizen with “doubts” be provided with any information he or she wants until each and every doubter is satisfied?

    Really?

  415. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Scientist: Unless there is a block of birthers out there who WOULD vote for Obama if he released some form or other, he should not and will not release jack It’s harsh, but that’s how politics works.

    Scientist, I think you would also agree that:

    – even under the unrealistic notion that there was “some” block of birthers who would “suddenly” vote for him, if he only released such-and-such documentation…

    …such a “block” would have to be statistically significant in size for it to matter politically at all.

    Honestly, let’s look at the entire probably size of the “true birthers” out there. Even under the preposterous fantasy situation where ALL of them suddenly would vote for him…

    …it is quite likely that such numbers would STILL be completely, statistically INSIGNIFICANT as a voting block.

    Over 69 MILLION people voted for Obama in 2008. That is over 9.5 MILLION more votes than his nearest competitor – John McCain and a sound THRASHING victory with a margin of over 7.2%

    A total of over 131 Million people voted in the 2008 Presidential election – translating to roughly slightly over 40% of the entire nation’s population.

    Of votes that went to OTHER than Obama or McCain – that entire official count was: 1,865,617 – in other words ONLY 1.4 PERCENT of that entire vote total.

    At that time, the strongest legitimate argument against Obama was the concern of what experience he had for the job.

    That argument is gone for 2012. Other than issues of the economy being a major factor, there is little sign out there that the GOP can provide a serious contender for 2012 so far.

    The truly “hard core” birthers we see or hear anywhere appear to be the same lot over and over again, often with multiple sock-puppets inflating their numbers.

    I’ve yet to see evidence that even with sock-puppets, that such numbers climb much higher than the low single-digit thousands at best.

    Even in trying to be kind to them and estimate that the “loud” portion of their numbers only represent some fraction of a “silent” hard-core birther contingency out there…

    …it becomes increasingly difficult to get their numbers to realistically grow to even the 1.4% margin that went for “other” in 2008.

    So, in summary, I would argue that as a whole, Birtherism is utterly statistically insignificant to Obama’s reelection vote total goals in the political sense.

  416. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    “How is the highest? It’s better than DNA?”

    s/b “How is it the highest? It’s better than DNA?”

  417. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 5:26 pm #

    G:
    Scientist, I think you would also agree that:- even under the unrealistic notion that there was “some” block of birthers who would “suddenly” vote for him, if he only released such-and-such documentation……such a “block” would have to be statistically significant in size for it to matter politically at all.Honestly, let’s look at the entire probably size of the “true birthers” out there.Even under the preposterous fantasy situation where ALL of them suddenly would vote for him……it is quite likely that such numbers would STILL be completely, statistically INSIGNIFICANT as a voting block.Over 69 MILLION people voted for Obama in 2008.That is over 9.5 MILLION more votes than his nearest competitor – John McCain and a sound THRASHING victory with a margin of over 7.2%A total of over 131 Million people voted in the 2008 Presidential election – translating to roughly slightly over 40% of the entire nation’s population.Of votes that went to OTHER than Obama or McCain – that entire official count was: 1,865,617 – in other words ONLY 1.4 PERCENT of that entire vote total.At that time, the strongest legitimate argument against Obama was the concern of what experience he had for the job.That argument is gone for 2012.Other than issues of the economy being a major factor, there is little sign out there that the GOP can provide a serious contender for 2012 so far.The truly “hard core” birthers we see or hear anywhere appear to be the same lot over and over again, often with multiple sock-puppets inflating their numbers.I’ve yet to see evidence that even with sock-puppets, that such numbers climb much higher than the low single-digit thousands at best.Even in trying to be kind to them and estimate that the “loud” portion of their numbers only represent some fraction of a “silent” hard-core birther contingency out there……it becomes increasingly difficult to get their numbers to realistically grow to even the 1.4% margin that went for “other” in 2008.So, in summary, I would argue that as a whole, Birtherism is utterly statistically insignificant to Obama’s reelection vote total goals in the political sense.

    And in another two years, when President Obama is running for reelection, that “statistically insignificant” number will become even more statistically insignificant.

  418. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    “You guys just like to argue, I guess.”

    Hello, Pot? The kettle called to remind you that you’re black.

    The birther is never interested in truth but always just some gentle soothing of their painful dissonance whenever that gosh darn confirmation bias is challenged.

    Pathetic.

  419. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 5:42 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: Congress is never going to ask for President Obama’s “birth certificate” because they know he was born there and that they must accept the certified copy as proof that he was born there. Once they do that, the issue is resolved, and they can’t milk it for political gain anymore. The last thing they want to do is put an official end to the lunacy.

    Guess I should have said, “Republicans in Congress,” rather than just “Congress.” My bad

  420. avatar
    Rickey January 21, 2011 at 5:53 pm #

    Nearly two years ago Doc. C. made a convincing case that the McCain birth certificate which was linked to above (and filed in the Hollander case) is a forgery.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/the-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/

    And this is a link to a contemporaneous announcement in the Panama American newspaper which says that McCain was born at the Navy base hospital.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/mccain_announcement_041708.pdf

    Contrary to what Lester claims, McCain never submitted any documentation about his birth to the Senate or anyone else. One of the enduring birther myths is that the Senate held hearings about McCain’s eligibility – but there were no hearings, just a resolution which passed without debate or objection.

  421. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 5:59 pm #

    Joey: I realize that if a long form magically appeared in Abercrombie’s hand, the birthers would immediately scream “forgery.” But I would still love to take just one more myth away from those who are “on the fence” on this issue.

    As would I Joey!

    Unfortunately, not only do I think your first part is all too true (they would just scream “forgery”), but also we have seen over and over again that IN ADDITION to doing that, they will just “move the goalposts” again, as they already have on so many occasions.

    Most of the birthers who’ve clamored for more evidence from HI in one breath have not even waited to finish that breath to try to throw in the de Vattel and Indonesian adoption myths.

    No matter how many times those ideas have been shown as ludicrous as well, they endlessly repeat the same tired talking points.

    So yeah, what is the point when birthers won’t even accept him as NBC, no matter what proof is provided about his birth in HI? They’ve clearly shown that HI birth is, in the end, irrelevant to them.

    Furthermore, based on their ability to ressurect long-debunked zombie arguments over and over again every few months (such as the easily dis-proven “Kenya grandmother” tape claims and poorly forged Kenya BCs) – what makes you think that publicly providing any such “long form” from HI and showing it all over the TV and in print will stop them from just laying low on that particular argument for a few months and then having the audacity to come back a few months later and make the same concern trollish claims for more documents to be released from HI and “pretend” that they haven’t already seen the long form?

    Face it, this issue has been all over the news and been sufficiently researched and discussed. Anyone who isn’t aware of it not only isn’t paying attention but doesn’t care.

    The birther propogandist hopes to be able to spread their L.I.E.S in the vain hope of reaching these otherwise disinterested people and get them to buy into it. If you honestly believe that the release of documents would stop them from trying to come back and pretend those very same documents were never released…well, you haven’t been paying attention to just how ludicrous they’ve been in their zombie resurrection of debunked issues.

    Furthermore and most importantly, for the rest of us, our own privacy rights and our laws as a whole -there is a lot more to be damaged and lost by pandering to them in the slightest than can possibly be gained in futile attempts to pacify a few of them:

    Once you start weakening privacy laws to cater to the whims of a few unreasonable, whiny people, you’ve truly opened a slippery-slope door to erode why these privacy laws and protections exist in the first place.

    Take a serious moment and reflect hard upon the potential implications and ramifications there.

    It is really no different from why this country must adhere to a policy of not negotiating with hostage takers.

  422. avatar
    Joey January 21, 2011 at 6:05 pm #

    G: Joey – Just a point of clarification:The point there is that such information could be released ONLY to people with the AUTHORITY and RIGHT to see that information.That does NOT allow such information to be provided to the PUBLIC at large. That would violate various privacy acts.It is why Fukino has the right to see the info and say she has seen it. It is also why she can’t then post and give what she’s seen out to the general public.Simple as that.

    Anyone who is able to convince a judge to grant them a subpoena can gain access. Congressional subpoenas can be issued by any committee chairperson.
    Where did I say anything about “the public at large?”
    My point is that no one, with or without “authority” has been able to convince a judge to grant them a subpoena. I’m primarily talking about Grand Juries, prosecuting attorneys and members of Congress.
    If this is the “greatest constitutional crisis EVER in this republic” as birthers would like us to believe, why has no one (in authority) been able to get a simple little subpoena?

  423. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 6:07 pm #

    Rickey: Nearly two years ago Doc. C. made a convincing case that the McCain birth certificate which was linked to above (and filed in the Hollander case) is a forgery.http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/the-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/And this is a link to a contemporaneous announcement in the Panama American newspaper which says that McCain was born at the Navy base hospital.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/mccain_announcement_041708.pdfContrary to what Lester claims, McCain never submitted any documentation about his birth to the Senate or anyone else. One of the enduring birther myths is that the Senate held hearings about McCain’s eligibility – but there were no hearings, just a resolution which passed without debate or objection.

    You know, Rickey, I just accepted that if McCane was going to submit anything to a court of law, it would be the real thing. However, when I looked at what is linked to in Hollander v. McCane, I noticed that some of the type was much clearer in some parts than others, which made me think forgery. From reading Doc’s article, it’s clear that it is, in fact, a forgery, but I do have a question. Why would McCane or any of his attorneys submit a forged document to a court of law?

  424. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 6:10 pm #

    Scientist: Just an interesting point, regarding Bovril’s attempt to estimate how many birthers there are. Every birther that comes here says he voted for someone other than Obama or McCain. All the minor candidates got a little over 1%. So, assuming the birthers bothered to vote, that is about their representation in the population. In fact, I suspect most of them would be in the 0.15% that voted for the Constitution Party.

    Another interesting point, and one I put out to the entire regular community here…

    Have you noticed a pattern on this site, that as soon as one “concern trolling” birther gets soundly thrashed and finally leaves that another one mysteriously and suddenly appears in its place, starting the same cycle of “innocent” sounding questions all over again, only to rapidly devolve into spouting the same litany of hard-core birther arguments?

    Maybe I’m being too influenced by all these “conspiracy” nuts…but I smell a coordinated effort.

    It is like one tags-out and the next one tags-back in…

  425. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 6:12 pm #

    There are other documents that were submitted along with that birth certificate that were created in 2008. It may be that the original birth certificate had been altered at that time for some reason, but why would someone do that?

  426. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP: And I would further argue, G, that some of those who want it released want it just so that they can use it for those purposes since they know that birthers will believe them instead of the legal authorities that release it; that’s already been proven. Whatever he releases, they will alter it and claim it’s a forgery too. And then we’ll hear about the Hawaiian officials are lying about this new information again. Releasing anything will just throw fuel on the fire. They just want more stuff to renew and further their claims because the fact of the matter is that they are not interested in the truth; they are just interested in repeating the lie over and over and over again.

    Well said. Agreed, completely!

  427. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 21, 2011 at 6:17 pm #

    lester: Daniel, this shows me you are not honest in your intentions:Forgive my ignorance, but where, exactly in the Constitution does it say that a President must have a BC that includes the name of the hospital, etc?.
    Of course it doesn’t say in so many words anything about a “birth certificate”.But the qualifications to be President are clear…”…natural born citizen…”and that is what the whole controversy is about.How does one go about proving that?It used to be the family Bible.Today it is a birth certificate.What is the value of seeing the hospital, attending physician, etc?It is the highest level of proof there is, that’s why.It would absolutely take the wind out of the sails of the primary “Birther” arguement.This should be reason enough for YOU on this blog to wish this document, if it exists, to see the light of day.This is the same reason why Mathews adn the new HI governor said what they said.Produce the damn thing and put this whole “issue” to bed.

    Actually its not the highest level of proof. If you don’t accept that it says he was born on August 4th 1961 in Honolulu, HI why would you accept that he was delivered by Dr Rodney West at kapiolani Medical Center? It wouldn’t take any sails out of the birther argument as they’ve already moved on to other theories like 2 citizen parents, dual citizenship at birth, etc which have nothing to do with the birth certificate.

  428. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    Rickey: Nearly two years ago Doc. C. made a convincing case that the McCain birth certificate which was linked to above (and filed in the Hollander case) is a forgery.http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/the-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/And this is a link to a contemporaneous announcement in the Panama American newspaper which says that McCain was born at the Navy base hospital.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/mccain_announcement_041708.pdfContrary to what Lester claims, McCain never submitted any documentation about his birth to the Senate or anyone else. One of the enduring birther myths is that the Senate held hearings about McCain’s eligibility – but there were no hearings, just a resolution which passed without debate or objection.

    Good points, Rickey.

    Thank you for reminding us of this.

  429. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    Joey: Anyone who is able to convince a judge to grant them a subpoena can gain access. Congressional subpoenas can be issued by any committee chairperson.
    Where did I say anything about “the public at large?”
    My point is that no one, with or without “authority” has been able to convince a judge to grant them a subpoena. I’m primarily talking about Grand Juries, prosecuting attorneys and members of Congress.
    If this is the “greatest constitutional crisis EVER in this republic” as birthers would like us to believe, why has no one (in authority) been able to get a simple little subpoena

    Joey,

    I agree with what you said.

    My point of clarification was meant to address your issues in broader context of what they mean, as similar statements have been frequently used on here to mistakingly think “release” to certain folks is equivalent to the “public”.

    I never said that YOU specifically mentioned the public and I apologize if it came across this way.

    Your mention of the issue merely provided me an opportunity to speak out on that issue and clarify further on what that means, as I’ve seen similar statements be misused and misinterpreted before.

    Just trying to head off problems at the pass. Thanks again for your post.

  430. avatar
    Rickey January 21, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    FUTTHESHUCKUP:
    Why would McCane or any of his attorneys submit a forged document to a court of law?

    It was submitted by Hollander, not by McCain. McCain never submitted anything other than the motion to dismiss.

  431. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 6:39 pm #

    Rickey:
    It was submitted by Hollander, not by McCain. McCain never submitted anything other than themotion to dismiss.

    lol. okay. Thanks. That explains it then

  432. avatar
    Keith January 21, 2011 at 6:51 pm #

    G: Have you noticed a pattern on this site, that as soon as one “concern trolling” birther gets soundly thrashed and finally leaves that another one mysteriously and suddenly appears in its place, starting the same cycle of “innocent” sounding questions all over again, only to rapidly devolve into spouting the same litany of hard-core birther arguments?

    Yes.

    I made the same point a few months back and got mildly pooh-poohed about how we shouldn’t be seeing conspiracies everywhere. (Uh, blog title anyone?).

    I also noticed the same thing about the tag team of the birfoon lawsuits, one gets kicked out of court and another is immediately there with hype and paypal button entreaties, round and round and round.

  433. avatar
    Rickey January 21, 2011 at 6:55 pm #

    Joey:
    Anyone who is able to convince a judge to grant them a subpoena can gain access.Congressional subpoenas can be issued by any committee chairperson.
    Where did I say anything about “the public at large?”

    I believe that you are missing the point.

    Even assuming that a Congressional committee could successfully subpoena the “long form,” they still could not make it public, In my business we serve subpoenas for medical records on a daily basis, but that doesn’t give me the right to make those records available to anyone else,

    All the committee could do is release a report saying that they reviewed the long form and that it shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. Do you think that would satisfy the birthers? They would still scream that it is probably a forgery, etc.

    Also, I would think that even a Congressional subpoena has to comply with HIPAA. Any medical subpoena that I serve has to be accompanied by a HIPAA authorization signed by the patient, How would Congress get around this? Perhaps they could, but my experience tells me that this would not be as easy as you seem to believe.

  434. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 7:04 pm #

    lester: Daniel, this shows me you are not honest in your intentions:Forgive my ignorance, but where, exactly in the Constitution does it say that a President must have a BC that includes the name of the hospital, etc?.
    Of course it doesn’t say in so many words anything about a “birth certificate”.But the qualifications to be President are clear…”…natural born citizen…”and that is what the whole controversy is about.

    Is it? Is that what the whole controversy is about?

    No, unfortunately it’s not.

    The whole ridiculous thing is about hating the guy in office, and being a sore loser.

    You see if it was about the requirements, then the evidence that is both legally sufficient, and all that is required by any legal authority, including Congress, who are charged with vetting the President’s eligibility, would be enough for you.

    If it was about the requirements, then you birthers would be demanding the same level of “proof” from every past president as you do from this one.

    But if you were honest about it, you’d admit that not only did you never ask for any other President…. you don’t even really care whether any other President provided his “long form”

    lester: How does one go about proving that?It used to be the family Bible.

    So you’re saying you’d take the word ofd somebody’s family Bible over the legal documentation of the State of Hawaii? You don’t find that at least a little hypocritical?

    lester: Today it is a birth certificate.

    Apparently not for you, since you won’t accept his Birth Certificate, unless Hawaii changes it’s laws to conform to YOU.

    lester: What is the value of seeing the hospital, attending physician, etc?It is the highest level of proof there is,

    Noooooooo……

    The highest form of proof there is would be for you to have personally attended the birth and delivered Obama yourself. You see your “highest form” is just where you decide to set the bar arbitrarily. The problem with your arbitrary bar position for proof is that no matter what the state produces, you will simply move the bar just beyond what was provided, so you can pretend that you havn’t seen proof.

    lester: that’s why.It would absolutely take the wind out of the sails of the primary “Birther” arguement.This should be reason enough for YOU on this blog to wish this document, if it exists, to see the light of day.This is the same reason why Mathews adn the new HI governor said what they said.Produce the damn thing and put this whole “issue” to bed.

    Well aside from your dishonest and erroneous interpretation of what was said by both those people, you know damn well you birthers (yes YOU birthers, not them. You’re as much of a birther as any, you just pretend to be SOTF, like every other concern troll we’ve had) would never accept anything as proof. If you were given what you demand you’d simply shift the goalposts once again, move the bar higher, as it were. How do we know this? Well you’ve been doing just that for two years now, shifting the goal posts whenever you get what you demand.

    The “issue” was put to bed the day that Congress ratified the election.

    The ridiculous nutbag conspiracy fallacy will never be put to vbed until birthers like you grow up and accept you lost the election to a black man.

    And no, I don’t think that’s ever going to happen.

  435. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2011 at 7:08 pm #

    Rickey: All the committee could do is release a report saying that they reviewed the long form and that it shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. Do you think that would satisfy the birthers? They would still scream that it is probably a forgery, etc.

    And any Republican on the committee is suddenly a RINO or better yet, the vile birther b.s. that they were afraid of igniting a race war.

  436. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 7:16 pm #

    Joey: Anyone who is able to convince a judge

    Well that’s kind of the crux, isn’t it?

    You’d have to convince a judge that your “cause I wanna” need to see it overrides the legal requirements of privacy laws.

    The judge would want to know why you need to see it.

    If you told him it was to detemine Obama’s eligibility, he’d dismissit based on a number of points.

    1. You are not the authority charged with determining eligibility.

    2. Eligibility has already been established

    3. The BC presented is legal and sufficient to prove birth, and so no other documentation is required.

    But please feel free to bring the case if you like. Let’s see you put your money where your birther mouth is.

  437. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    Joey: If this is the “greatest constitutional crisis EVER in this republic” as birthers would like us to believe, why has no one (in authority) been able to get a simple little subpoena?

    Because it’s not…

    It’s not the greatest, or the nearly greatest, or the 10th greates, or the millionth greatest, or even the fourth from the last greatest.

    It’s not a “constitutional crisis” at all.

    Nobody questions Obama’s eligibility at all, outside of a handful of cranks, nutbags, and attention whores.

    Why do you think all the birther rallies can’t get more attendees than would fit in a ford minivan without the stowable seat option.

    Or look at it this way. There’s about the same amount of birthers as there are flat earthers, but you don’t hear anyone talking about a “geographical crisis”, now do you?

  438. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 21, 2011 at 7:37 pm #

    Majority Will:
    And any Republican on the committee is suddenly a RINO or better yet, the vile birther b.s. that they were afraid of igniting a race war.

    I think they’ll bypass the RINO and go straight to TRAITOR

  439. avatar
    Scientist January 21, 2011 at 7:54 pm #

    Daniel: It’s not the greatest, or the nearly greatest, or the 10th greates, or the millionth greatest, or even the fourth from the last greatest.

    I’ll go further and say that even if an indisputably ineligible person (say someone with 2 non-citizen parent who was proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have been born abroad) somehow made it into the White House it wouldn’t be the greatest constitutional crisis ever. Compared to millions spending their lives in slavery and the secession of 13 states? Not even close.

    Several members of Congress, including one of the greatest ever, Henry Clay, were seated before they reached the minimum age specifiied in the Constitution. Nobody, including many of the founders who were alive at the time, really seemed to think it was a big deal.

    This country faces many very serious issues. Presidential eligiibility just isn’t one of them.

  440. avatar
    Joey January 21, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    Well that’s kind of the crux, isn’t it?You’d have to convince a judge that your “cause I wanna” need to see it overrides the legal requirements of privacy laws.The judge would want to know why you need to see it.If you told him it was to detemine Obama’s eligibility, he’d dismissit based on a number of points.1. You are not the authority charged with determining eligibility.2. Eligibility has already been established3. The BC presented is legal and sufficient to prove birth, and so no other documentation is required.But please feel free to bring the case if you like. Let’s see you put your money where your birther mouth is.

    The last poll on this issue that I saw showed 14% of registered voters do not believe that Obama was born in the US. (A CNN poll from last August)

    I could definitely see a Grand Jury investigation into his eligibility to be president having been convened in a deep red, heavily Republican state like Idaho or Alabama. When Grand Juries are convened to examine ANY issue, judges give prosecuting attorneys great deference in issuing subpoenas for documents and for witnesses.

    Once again, the fact that NO crazy birther district attorney or state Attorney General has even ATTEMPTED to convene a grand jury investigation into Obama’s eligibility to be on the ballot in any very conservative state speaks volumes to me about the validity of the birther movement.

  441. avatar
    Joey January 21, 2011 at 9:07 pm #

    In case anyone missed it, this is the latest poll that I could find on the saturation of birtherism among registered voters:
    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k1a.pdf

  442. avatar
    G January 21, 2011 at 9:45 pm #

    Joey: In case anyone missed it, this is the latest poll that I could find on the saturation of birtherism among registered voters:
    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k1a.pdf

    Thanks for sharing. I looked at the link.

    I do have one question: where did you get that those polled under question #41 were “registered voters”?

    I did not see anything that indicated that in the info provided at the link.

    Is there more info somewhere that clarifies that?

  443. avatar
    Daniel January 21, 2011 at 11:24 pm #

    Joey: Once again, the fact that NO crazy birther district attorney or state Attorney General has even ATTEMPTED to convene a grand jury investigation into Obama’s eligibility to be on the ballot in any very conservative state speaks volumes to me about the validity of the birther movement.

    Exactly, no validity at all.

    Maybe it’s because, politics aside, District Attorneys generally know the law.

  444. avatar
    Dave January 21, 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    Joey — that poll is from last summer, and DrC put up a thread for it back then, and it was hashed over extensively at that time. My take is that, if you read the actual question they asked, this poll really has only a tangential relationship to birtherism.

  445. avatar
    Joey January 22, 2011 at 12:53 am #

    G: Thanks for sharing. I looked at the link. I do have one question: where did you get that those polled under question #41 were “registered voters”?I did not see anything that indicated that in the info provided at the link.Is there more info somewhere that clarifies that?

    They broke the data down by party affiliation.

  446. avatar
    Joey January 22, 2011 at 12:59 am #

    Dave: Joey — that poll is from last summer, and DrC put up a thread for it back then, and it was hashed over extensively at that time. My take is that, if you read the actual question they asked, this poll really has only a tangential relationship to birtherism.

    “Do you think Barack Obama was definitely born in the United States, probably born in the United States, probably born in another country, or definitely born in another country?”

    What’s tangential about that?

  447. avatar
    Daniel January 22, 2011 at 3:07 am #

    Because it ignore the overwhelming part of the question, which is. “Do you care”? to which most of those people would have answered “No”.

  448. avatar
    obsolete January 22, 2011 at 3:18 am #

    Hawaii says law prevents releasing more Obama birth info
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41203925/ns/politics-white_house/

    “Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo again confirmed Friday that Obama’s name is found in its alphabetical list of names of people born in Hawaii, maintained in bound copies available for public view.

    That information, called index data, shows a listing for “Obama II, Barack Hussein, Male,” according to the department’s website. The president was born Aug. 4, 1961.

    “The index is just to say who has their records within the department. That’s an indication,” Okubo said. “I can’t talk about anyone’s records.”

    Like many here have said, Abercrombie cannot release anything without Obama’s consent. No one will waste his time trying to get it.

    Cue The Conspiracies…

    (at this point, if Hawaii & Abercrombie were in on it, wouldn’t it be easy for them to produce a forgery on real Hawaiian paper with a real seal? Why would they not produce anything? How does that help Obama?)

  449. avatar
    Majority Will January 22, 2011 at 6:47 am #

    Another birther rat’s nest in the comments (some familiar):

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/01/21/fun-new-birther-conspiracy-based-upon-illiteracy.aspx

  450. avatar
    Sef January 22, 2011 at 8:06 am #

    Joey:
    They broke the data down by party affiliation.

    In my experience as an election inspector I have found that many people think of themselves as affiliated with a particular party, but their actual registration is different. They may need to be registered a particular way in order to maintain employment or marriage, but when they get in the voting booth they do something quite different.

  451. avatar
    Steve January 22, 2011 at 10:45 am #

    How do birthers tend to view HIPPA and other privacy laws?
    Are they ignorant of them and how they apply in this case?
    Do they view them as a cop-out, or that the President or a candidate for President is not worthy of protection from those laws because the interest voters have in knowing a person’s eligibility for the office supercedes any rights to privacy?

  452. avatar
    Joey January 22, 2011 at 12:46 pm #

    Sef: In my experience as an election inspector I have found that many people think of themselves as affiliated with a particular party, but their actual registration is different. They may need to be registered a particular way in order to maintain employment or marriage, but when they get in the voting booth they do something quite different.

    As I understand public opinion poll interviews, they ask the interviewee what they consider themselves to be: Democrat, Republican or Independent. You are correct that many people are registered with one party but regularly vote for another party.
    In polls of “likely voters” there are follow up questions to determine how much the interviewee knows about polling places, recent election outcomes and how frequently they say that they vote.
    And then we have the Paula Joneses of the world: “Republicans? now are they the good-uns or the bad-uns/”

  453. avatar
    Majority Will January 22, 2011 at 1:09 pm #

    Steve: How do birthers tend to view HIPPA and other privacy laws?
    Are they ignorant of them and how they apply in this case?
    Do they view them as a cop-out, or that the President or a candidate for President is not worthy of protection from those laws because the interest voters have in knowing a person’s eligibility for the office supercedes any rights to privacy?

    IMO, the birthers argue that the President has no right to privacy because:

    – he advocates transparency
    – he works for us
    – the highest office needs different rules
    – I hate negroes.

  454. avatar
    nc1 January 22, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    What do dedicated Obama supporters think about Gov. Abercrombie’s statement that they have found something “written down” in the archive?

    What happened to the original birth certificate from the Kapiolani Hospital?

  455. avatar
    Scientist January 22, 2011 at 2:33 pm #

    Wouldn’t the original birth certificate be “written down”? Surely it’s not in the form of an audio tape or home movie. And presumably it is kept in the archives as opposed to, say, under the sofa cushions in the Governor’s mansion.

    Besides, if there iis one thing I think both sides can agree on, it is that the Gov seems to often forget the old aphorism, “engage brain before opening mouth”.

  456. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) January 22, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    Scientist: Wouldn’t the original birth certificate be “written down”?Surely it’s not in the form of an audio tape or home movie.And presumably it is kept in the archives as opposed to, say, under the sofa cushions in the Governor’s mansion.Besides, if there iis one thing I think both sides can agree on, it is that the Gov seems to often forget the old aphorism, “engage brain before opening mouth”.

    oh look the return of NC1 didn’t he scurry off like 6 months back?

  457. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 22, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

    nc1: What do dedicated Obama supporters think about Gov. Abercrombie’s statement that they have found something “written down” in the archive?What happened to the original birth certificate from the Kapiolani Hospital?

    Yes, amazing it wasn’t done on a computer back in 1961, isn’t it?

    I think that someone wrote it down in the records 50 years ago because they could see into the future and knew that Barack Obama would need it when he ran for president in 2008. There’s no other explanation, is there? Just like with those newspaper announcements; must be the same psychic who perpetrated that fraud but there could be others

  458. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 22, 2011 at 3:23 pm #

    It’s comical the way they examine every word, every syllable, with a magnifying glass. Abercrombie says it’s “written down,” and that’s their cue to start questioning who wrote it and when. All of a sudden, just because it was written, that opens up a whole new conspiracy about how it got there. Just more proof that they will find some reason, no matter how zany, to disbelieve anything and everything that proves them wrong.

    Your next stop, the twilight zone – Abercrombie wrote it himself because he’s a liberal and a friend of Obama’s parents. lmao

  459. avatar
    FUTTHESHUCKUP January 22, 2011 at 3:37 pm #

    I can see them now:

    “First Abercrombie said he couldn’t find anything. Now he says it’s “written down.” Hmmmmmmmmm.”

    roflmao.

  460. avatar
    Joey January 22, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

    nc1: What do dedicated Obama supporters think about Gov. Abercrombie’s statement that they have found something “written down” in the archive?What happened to the original birth certificate from the Kapiolani Hospital?

    As a dedicated Obama supporter, I find Governor Abercrombie’s statement to be vague and bordering on nonsensical, particularly after the previous Republican administration stated in no uncertain terms that officials of the Lingle administration had personally seen Obama’s original birth certificate, that the certificate says that he was born in Hawaii and a Lingle administration official declared Obama to be a “natural born American citizen.” Governor Lingle herself stated that Obama was born at Kapiolani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. The former Governor stated unequivocably: “It’s been established. He was born here.”
    The Hawaii Republicans did a much better job of defending Obama’s bona fides than new Governor Abercrombie is doing.

  461. avatar
    G January 22, 2011 at 3:52 pm #

    Joey:
    They broke the data down by party affiliation.

    Ah, I understand the deductive reasoning there. However, I want to caution that I’ve learned there are folks out there who “affiliate” themselves with one party or the other, but