Main Menu

Factcheck.org v Trump

FactCheck.org

FactCheck.org has applied its usual rigorous inspection of the various claims made on the national media by Donald Trump these past couple of weeks. We’ve seen and heard him on the major networks saying things about Barack Obama straight from the pages of WorldNetDaily and the birther blogs. How do his claims stand up? (As if anyone here needed FactCheck.org to tell them the answer.)  The title of their new article today, “Donald. You’re Fired!‘ should give you a pretty good hint of what they found.

If Donald Trump worked for us, we’d have to say: “Donald, you’re fired –” for incompetence.” The successful developer and TV celebrity says he’d make a good president, and maybe he would –” we take no stand either way about that. But when it comes to getting facts straight, he fouls up again and again on the basics of President Barack Obama’s birth. As a rookie reporter, he just wouldn’t make it.

The nice thing about FactCheck.org is that they are real journalists with a real staff, and they can do real investigations and interviews. It’s nice to watch the professionals at work.

An article in a similar vein was published yesterday at Politifact.com.

92 Responses to Factcheck.org v Trump

  1. avatar
    Gary Miller April 9, 2011 at 9:03 pm #

    And yet, the nuts over at Free Republic, after posting the piece, still remain petulant. Simply amazing, but so fascinating to observe. That is some cast of characters over there; a once-in-a-lifetime study of psychotic personalities driven by chop logic, tortured language and animal faith.

    We all know butterdezillion, the queen mother. I read her lengthy exchange here with rapt attention and my jaw dropped. The woman supplies links that – once you slog through them – contradict the exact point she tries to make. Simply breathtaking.
    For a woman of the church, she seems to have no problem in bearing false witness.
    Then there are the supporters who cheer her on. My new favorite might be the piece of work known as fantasy writer. Click on the “in forum” on this woman’s profile for a true study of denialism.

    Polarik is deeply missed. Beckwith still shows up to spout the same old lies. Jamese seems be banned. I count on “Curiosity” to set them straight.

    Fascinating, just fascinating.

  2. avatar
    brygenon April 9, 2011 at 9:40 pm #

    Another nice thing about FactCheck is that they’re run by a great university that happens to be Trump’s own alma mater. When Trump brags that he went to the best school he means the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. FactCheck.org is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania.

  3. avatar
    john April 9, 2011 at 9:44 pm #

    Absolute Junk posted by FactCheck! Corsi’s book “Where’s The Birth Certificate?” will blow FactCheck out of the water.

    [Someone mentioned James. Yes, he’s banned (and all his name variants). He posts here several times a week, things like this that don’t have any informational value. I read them and then put them in the trash folder. Doc.]

  4. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2011 at 10:26 pm #

    For me personally, the collection of hyperlinks is the most important thing in the article. Also they showed me a mistake I had, writing “Hawaii News Service” in place of the correct “Hawaii Newspaper Agency.”

  5. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 9, 2011 at 10:34 pm #

    Gary Miller: For a woman of the church, she seems to have no problem in bearing false witness.

    For many years, I have had occasion to quote to conservatives what Martin Luther wrote about the Commandment in his Small Catechism. It has never been well received. Luther wrote:

    The Eighth Commandment. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

    What does this mean? Answer:

    We should fear and love God so that we do not tell lies about our neighbor, betray him, slander him, or hurt his reputation, but defend him, speak well of him, and explain everything in the kindest way.

    My problem with this rule is that there are some folks where there isn’t any kind way to explain their actions. Nonetheless, there are many things I have written and then erased before posting in obedience to the Commandment.

  6. avatar
    Majority Will April 9, 2011 at 10:57 pm #

    john:
    Absolute Junk posted by FactCheck!Corsi’s book “Where’s The Birth Certificate?” will blow FactCheck out of the water.

    [Someone mentioned James. Yes, he’s banned (and all his name variants). He posts here several times a week, things like this that don’t have any informational value. I read them and then put them in the trash folder. Doc.]

    Perhaps “james” and “john” are sock puppets for Jerome. 😉

  7. avatar
    richCares April 9, 2011 at 11:49 pm #

    poor john, he has so many “blow out of the water ” moments, he must be a duck, Daffy Duck.

  8. avatar
    Mary Brown April 10, 2011 at 1:14 am #

    Yes, and the woman in question should know her Catechism.

  9. avatar
    obsolete April 10, 2011 at 2:06 am #

    James, you realize, of course, that Corsi helped give birth to the what has become known as “Swiftboating” (I define it as lying about your opponents strengths).

    So who will believe anything in a professional liar’s book? (Well, besides people like James who desperately want to be lied to).

  10. avatar
    Robert Clark April 10, 2011 at 2:31 am #

    FactCheck does indeed consist of good reporters. However, my complaint against them and most of the mainstream media is that refuse to ask the obvious question directly of Obama.
    Being good reporters they are aware that the extra information contained in the long form birth certificate would be just the hospital name, mother’s signature, attending physician signature, and perhaps the signature of another witness. Considering the lack of controversial or damaging or embarrassing information that would be contained in it it just makes no sense Obama would go to such lengths to keep it secret. And remember that is exactly what he is doing keeping it secret.
    Good reporters ears pick up at such blatant inconsistencies. A good reporter would want to ask why is that information being kept secret.

    Bob

  11. avatar
    sfjeff April 10, 2011 at 2:42 am #

    Considering the lack of controversial or damaging or embarrassing information that would be contained in it it just makes no sense Obama would go to such lengths to keep it secret. And remember that is exactly what he is doing keeping it secret.

    Was Bush keeping something secret when he refused to respond to allegations that he was behind the Twin Towers attack?

    Was Clinton keeping something secret when he refused to respond to allegations that he was involved with Vince Fosters death?

    President Obama has done nothing to keep prevent his original birth certificate from being released- nor has he done anything to allow its release. As a President he is merely refusing to respond to the allegations of a small fringe group of his opponents.

    He has no obligation, moral or legal to release additional proof of his birth in the United States. Personally, I rather hope a state passes an eligiblity bill so President Obama has a reason to release his original birth certificate to some official body, without doing so to accede to the demands of his opponents.

  12. avatar
    Suranis April 10, 2011 at 2:48 am #

    Actually a good reporter would know about the privacy laws that protect every American, would realize that all the effort Omaba did to not disclose his total records would be to… not actually write to Hawai’i which requires no effort at all. They would actually read the first executive order that Obama signed and realize it had nothing to do with personal information, and would realize that the public defenders assigned to present the governments case at the 74 Birther law suits that lost would have been at another case if they had not been at those ones, so there’s no effort expended there either.

    And they would realize there’s no story here and would move on to something more important.

  13. avatar
    gorefan April 10, 2011 at 2:58 am #

    Robert Clark: that would be contained in it it just makes no sense

    Politicians do things for a lot of reasons that appear to make no sense.

    The perfect example is the case of President Bush and Vice President Chaney.

    Both initially refused to testify before the 9/11 Commission.

    When they finally met with the Commission, it was under the following ground rules;

    They would testify at the same time, together.
    They would not be under oath.
    There would be no transcript made of the meeting.

    Compare that to the actions of former President Clinton and Vice President Gore;

    They testified separately,
    They both testified under oath
    Their testimonies were transcribed.

    Would you say that the actions of Bush/Chaney made no sense unless they had something to hide? I suspect they were concerned about setting a precedent that other Presidents would be forced to follow.

    While it may seem to you that President Obama has gone to great lengths to keep a secret, but he really hasn’t. In fact, he is the only President to release his birth certificate, either before or while in office.

    And as you say, there is no information on the long-form that is any interest, so why play to the fringe groups. Presidents often ignore the fringes, even of their own party.

  14. avatar
    Suranis April 10, 2011 at 3:06 am #

    Its also nice to see that Fact check put a link to BHOs birth certificate nin this article, you know the one that the Birthers were claiming had been taken down because they had no confidence in it for the last couple of weeks.

  15. avatar
    Daniel April 10, 2011 at 3:25 am #

    Robert Clark: Considering the lack of controversial or damaging or embarrassing information that would be contained in it it just makes no sense Obama would go to such lengths to keep it secret. And remember that is exactly what he is doing keeping it secret.
    Good reporters ears pick up at such blatant inconsistencies. A good reporter would want to ask why is that information being kept secret.

    Perhaps they, unlike you, simply know the difference between keeping something secret, and just not going out of the way to deliver something to you which is simply none of your business.

  16. avatar
    Gary Miller April 10, 2011 at 7:01 am #

    The brilliance of the way Obama plays this whole thing plays out on Free Republic as well, and Doctor, I do apologize if I’ve veered this particular thread off-topic.

    The point is, if Obama had released a “long-form” birth certificate by now, it would’ve thrown water, and we would never have Michelle Bachmann having to comment on it.
    When she does, her supporters at Free Republic hit the roof. When Rush Limbaugh
    calls the birthers “children” for maintaining this fantasy, boom, there you go again.
    Now his supporters express deep disappointment, some are even resentful. This is
    marginilazation right before your eyes. For me, it’s another fascinating aspect of the entire birtherism charade, and I guess, another reason why so many blogs are devoted to it.

    How deep will Obama have to respond to this issue during the campaign? The serious GOP nominees have seem to dismiss birtherism as hogwash. If that’s still the case next year, Obama will never have to address it. Unless ABC has another town-hall-style debate and one of the nuts brings it up.

  17. avatar
    Loren April 10, 2011 at 8:05 am #

    Someone mentioned James. Yes, he’s banned (and all his name variants). He posts here several times a week, things like this that don’t have any informational value. I read them and then put them in the trash folder. Doc.

    I think the reference was to another James, specifically FreeRepublic’s jamese777. He was an avid anti-birther and an vocal member of FR’s ‘Sanity Squad.’

    And like fellow FR anti-birthers Non Sequitur and Drew68, he’s now been banned. The voices of reason keep getting culled.

  18. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 10, 2011 at 8:25 am #

    sfjeff: Personally, I rather hope a state passes an eligiblity bill so President Obama has a reason to release his original birth certificate to some official body, without doing so to accede to the demands of his opponents.

    So do I.

  19. avatar
    That Other Mike April 10, 2011 at 8:35 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: For many years, I have had occasion to quote to conservatives what Martin Luther wrote about the Commandment in his Small Catechism. It has never been well received. Luther wrote:

    My problem with this rule is that there are some folks where there isn’t any kind way to explain their actions. Nonetheless, there are many things I have written and then erased before posting in obedience to the Commandment.

    Not to mention, Doc, as well, that you have probably have at least a few regulars around here who are Atheists or otherwise non-Christian, to whom the tenets of your religion don’t mean a lot, and who might reasonably find overt or regular expression of it to be off-putting or even offensive.

  20. avatar
    Scientist April 10, 2011 at 9:09 am #

    Slartibartfast: sfjeff: Personally, I rather hope a state passes an eligiblity bill so President Obama has a reason to release his original birth certificate to some official body, without doing so to accede to the demands of his opponents.
    So do I.

    Won’t happen. The federal government has a duty to challenge unconstitutional state laws that usurp its authority. It doesn’t matter whether the law applies to none, some or all of the current candidates. Suppose a state passes a law that says no one with a Hispanic name can be on the ballot. Should the feds sit back and wait for a Hispanic candidate to challenge it? The Feds challenged Arizona’s immigration law without waiting for someone to be charged under it. They can and should do the same here.

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 10, 2011 at 9:25 am #

    That Other Mike: Not to mention, Doc, as well, that you have probably have at least a few regulars around here who are Atheists or otherwise non-Christian, to whom the tenets of your religion don’t mean a lot, and who might reasonably find overt or regular expression of it to be off-putting or even offensive.

    My faith is part of who I am and the way I see the world, and this is after all my blog. I would hope that some principles, such as honesty and fairness, resonate with folks whether they are religious or not. Further, there is an inescapable religions component to the birther movement and I believe that it is important to confront birtherism on both factual and moral grounds.

    While there have been quite a few anti-religious comments left here by others, I not recall there ever been any remarks directed against atheists.

  22. avatar
    That Other Mike April 10, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: My faith is part of who I am and the way I see the world, and this is after all my blog. I would hope that some principles, such as honesty and fairness, resonate with folks whether they are religious or not. Further, there is an inescapable religions component to the birther movement and I believe that it is important to confront birtherism on both factual and moral grounds.

    I don’t think there’s any issue with your being religious, nor with the promotion of honesty; however, in that same spirit of honesty, it can be uncomfortable for a venue to lurch religionward suddenly. As you say, it’s your blog, and I respect your right to run it as you think best.

  23. avatar
    DP April 10, 2011 at 1:43 pm #

    Robert Clark: FactCheck does indeed consist of good reporters. However, my complaint against them and most of the mainstream media is that refuse to ask the obvious question directly of Obama.Being good reporters they are aware that the extra information contained in the long form birth certificate would be just the hospital name, mother’s signature, attending physician signature, and perhaps the signature of another witness. Considering the lack of controversial or damaging or embarrassing information that would be contained in it it just makes no sense Obama would go to such lengths to keep it secret. And remember that is exactly what he is doing keeping it secret.Good reporters ears pick up at such blatant inconsistencies. A good reporter would want to ask why is that information being kept secret.Bob

    You guys are such an oily, loathsome piece of work.

    Let’s see… There’s not an ounce of factual evidence that Obama was born anywhere other than where he says–Hawaii. He put on the Internet a perfectly legitimate state documentation of birth, which is more than any other Presidential candidate has ever done. Then, a bunch of hateful freaks who simply can’t deal with the fact that a BLACK MAN is in the WHITE HOUSE started publishing their obviously delusional fantasies about his not being born here. They did so without an ounce of evidence, animated by the clear desire to identify Obama as “the other,” something somehow fundamentally unAmerican, spitting on his simple humanity. And finally, they prearrange other arguments to maintain Obama is “the Other” even if he is born in America.

    Then you come along prancing and preening like the very voice of rationality, wondering why Obama doesn’t waste his time on a collection of hateful freaks who will deny his rightful place as an American citizen and human being no matter what he does. And you have the sheer gall to use his refusal to deal with you lunatics as proof of something when you’ve never had any evidence of the slightest wrongdoing.

    People with brains, reporters or not, can look at people like you and know exactly what’s going on.

  24. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 10, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

    Robert Clark: Good reporters ears pick up at such blatant inconsistencies. A good reporter would want to ask why is that information being kept secret.

    I would not make a good reporter. I would be too embarrassed to ask the President of the United States such a stupid question.

  25. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 10, 2011 at 3:49 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I would not make a good reporter. I would be too embarrassed to ask the President of the United States such a stupid question.

    But would you call him ‘dude’ like Jon Stewart did? 😉

  26. avatar
    Black Lion April 10, 2011 at 8:05 pm #

    More nonsense…

    Trump Insists Obama’s Grandparents Planted His Birth Announcement To Obtain Welfare Benefits

    In July 2008, a researcher “looking to dig up dirt on Obama”
    instead came across a birth announcement from 1961 in the Honolulu
    Advertiser documenting the birth of then presidential candidate Barack
    Obama in the state. For many, the announcement, together with Obama’s
    birth certificate, conclusively proved that Obama was born in the United
    States and is eligible to run for president.
    Rumored presidential hopeful Donald Trump isn’t convinced. On CNN’s
    State of the Union today, Trump claimed that Obama’s grandparents
    planted the announcement to obtain welfare benefits:

    TRUMP: The grandparents put that [birth announcement] in
    [the newspaper] because obviously they want him to be a United States
    citizen because in those days, people were much more proud than they are
    today unfortunately for being a United States citizen.
    So they wanted him to be a citizen of the United States, for
    that purpose, and also for hospitalization, for welfare, for this, for
    that, for all the other assets you get from being a United States
    citizen. So there are a lot of very smart people who say that is
    routinely done and that was done by his grandparents. […]
    CROWLEY: I will tell you we’ve checked with both these papers early
    on — not to the latest when you brought it back in the headlines — but the fact is that the hospitals reported this information to the papers, and the papers printed it.
    TRUMP: Who knows? You’re talking fifty years ago.

    Watch it:
    On several occasions, Trump has implied that Obama’s grandparents essentially lied about his citizenship “for social reasons.” The other “smart people” who agree with him include conservative blogger Tom Maguire
    who claims the birth announcement was planted to win a potential
    custody battle involving “a black Kenyan baby sought by the black Kenyan
    father and his African family.”
    Yet, this is the first time the person interviewing Trump has
    actually bothered to point out that the birth information printed in the
    Honolulu Advertiser always came directly
    from the state health department (via the local hospital), not
    grandparents or relatives. It’s also worth noting that since Obama’s
    mother was a U.S. citizen, he was automatically conferred citizenship
    and all of its “assets” no matter where he was born. Unless his
    grandparents somehow knew that baby Obama would one day want to run for
    president, there wouldn’t really be a reason for his family to fabricate
    a convoluted lie regarding his birthplace.
    White House senior adviser David Plouffe dismissed
    Donald Trump’s birther beliefs today, noting that “there may be a small
    part of the country that believes these things, but mainstream
    Americans think it’s a side show.” In fact, more than half of GOP primary voters believe Obama was not born in the U.S., compared to 11 percent of the general public.

    http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/10/trump-birth-announcement/

  27. avatar
    Black Lion April 10, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    Plouffe: Zero chance for Trump in 2012 – POLITICO Live: Plouffe: Zero chance for Trump in 2012
    April 10, 2011
    Plouffe: Zero chance for Trump in 2012
    White House senior adviser David Plouffe slammed Donald Trump’s birther beliefs on Sunday, saying that the recent publicity he has garnered has been a “side show” and indicated that Trump’s rise in Republican polls could be good for President Barack Obama in 2012.

    “I saw Donald Trump kind of rising in the polls. Given his behavior, and the spectacle of the last couple of weeks, I hope he keeps on rising,” Plouffe said on ABC’s “This Week.” “There’s zero chance that Donald Trump would ever be hired by the American people to do this job.”

    Plouffe said that he does not think that Trump, or the issue of Obama’s birth would impact the 2012 presidential election because the American people are focused on issues like the economy and national security.

    “There may be a small part of the country that believes these things, but mainstream Americans think it’s a side show,” Plouffe said. “That’s not leadership, that’s a kind of a sideshow behavior.”

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/politicolive/0411/Plouffe_Zero_chance_Trump_in_2012.html?showall

  28. avatar
    David April 11, 2011 at 5:51 am #

    I also think it would be better for him to start talking about the daunting problems that the country faces specifically in the area of economy and national security. There is a tendency among people to be interested in the issues that influence their lives directly. Just look at the situation in France where the popularity of Le Pen’s party is on the rise because the issue of Muslim immigration has recently become so popular in French politics.

  29. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 11, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    The ravings of a hardcore PUMA and one of Dr. Kate’s hatriots (some of the faithful were speculating that Trump was a Wall Street guy and may not have the best interests of the birthers at heart…):

    AttilasDaughter
    April 11, 2011 at 11:15 am
    Plouffe: “the issue of Obama’s birth will not impact the 2012 presidential election because the American people are focused on the economy and national security.”

    Really?

    Actually the people are focused on the economy, but the Obama campaign doesn’t want to talk about it either.
    What do they want to talk about?

    Trump was for Hillary.
    Hillary HATES Obama.
    I don’t think Trump is an Obot.

  30. avatar
    Keith April 11, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: My faith is part of who I am and the way I see the world, and this is after all my blog. I would hope that some principles, such as honesty and fairness, resonate with folks whether they are religious or not. Further, there is an inescapable religions component to the birther movement and I believe that it is important to confront birtherism on both factual and moral grounds.

    The truth is the truth.

    Whether spoken by religious philosophers or non-religious philosophers, scripture based or mythology based, learned from life experience or learned on a psychiatrists couch.

    Don’t be too hesitant to do battle with the false-religionists on their hypocrisy, Doc. Just remember the story about what happens when you lie down with pigs and don’t let them take you down with them. That precaution should keep the blog balanced .

  31. avatar
    Black Lion April 12, 2011 at 7:37 am #

    “Ever wondered where Ann Coulter comes down on the controversy surrounding Barack Obama’s birth certificate? Well the following clip from tonight’s episode of Hannity will not only reveal to you that she thinks that Donald Trump’s recent“birther” campaign seems somewhat insane, but that the entire birth certificate was ginned up by theHillary Clinton campaign and is promoted by the liberal media as a means to delegitimize any criticism of what she thinks is a terrible presidency. Surprise!?

    Host Sean Hannity seemed slightly taken aback by Coulter’s defense of the overall legitimacy of Obama’s presidency (at least in the strictest constitutional terms of being born in these United States of America) and pushed his guest to find some common ground with Trump’s seemingly quixotic exploration of Obama’s birth certificate.
    Perhaps odder is the fact that Coulter’s fearless attack on Trump’s birther bombast sounds eerily similar to a post written by Mediaite’s own Tommy Christopher published earlier today. Christopher also made a Charlie Sheen reference in another Trump/Birther post. OMG – Ann Coulter is now getting her political talking points from Tommy Christopher?”

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/ann-coulter-donald-trumps-birther-talk-seems-sane-compared-to-charlie-sheen/

  32. avatar
    Black Lion April 12, 2011 at 7:40 am #

    Coulter Ignores Conservative Media Promoting Birtherism
    April 12, 2011 12:02 am ET by Zachary Pleat

    Monday on Hannity, Ann Coulter blamed the continued focus on the conspiracy theories about President Obama’s birth certificate on the “liberal media,” claiming that “you don’t see that on Fox News.” Coulter also stated that “every responsible conservative organization” that examined the issue “has shot it down.”

    However, Fox News in general, and Hannity in particular have repeatedly entertained debunked conspiracy theories regarding Obama’s birth certificate.

    On his March 25 Fox News show, Hannity said:

    HANNITY: What are we to make of what he’s — the question he’s raising? You know, John McCain had questions about whether he was born in America. Dick Cheney had to prove his residency in Wyoming. If we want to take it back further, other presidents have been questioned about their residency. What’s wrong with asking about, “OK, can you just show us the birth certificate?” I was born in the same year as the president —

    […]

    HANNITY: I don’t get to make the final decision. But the answer is, do I think he was? Yes. Do I think he’s — do I think this is odd that they won’t produce the birth certificate?

    DANIELS: Well, I think —

    HANNITY: It’s beginning to get odd to me

    The conservative website WND, which currently publishes Coulter’s syndicated column, regularly pushes conspiracy theories about Obama’s birth certificate.

    When will Coulter call out the platforms she appears on for promoting what she calls “a conspiracy theory that won’t die on the internet?”

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/201104120001

  33. avatar
    Scientist April 12, 2011 at 7:57 am #

    Black Lion: “Ever wondered where Ann Coulter comes down on the controversy surrounding Barack Obama’s birth certificate? Well the following clip from tonight’s episode of Hannity will not only reveal to you that she thinks that Donald Trump’s recent“birther” campaign seems somewhat insane, but that the entire birth certificate was ginned up by theHillary Clinton campaign and is promoted by the liberal media as a means to delegitimize any criticism of what she thinks is a terrible presidency. Surprise!?

    Trump has told the Wall Street Journal that if he doesn’t get the Republican nomination he will “probably run as an independent”. Such a scenario would make Obama’s re-election a virtual lock. So, the question must be asked, “Are the birthers paid agents of Obama/Biden 2012 or are they merely dupes?”

  34. avatar
    The Magic M April 12, 2011 at 10:13 am #

    > Are the birthers paid agents

    You can’t fake *that* kind of stupid unless you’re Robert de Niro or Dustin Hoffman or Tom Hanks. They’d be getting Academy Awards for portraying a birther.

    Birthers are dupes. Those who milk them (WND) or use them for their own political agenda, however, are quite likely very clever, but they’re not birthers.

  35. avatar
    The Magic M April 12, 2011 at 10:20 am #

    > but that the entire birth certificate was ginned up by theHillary Clinton campaign and is promoted by the liberal media as a means to delegitimize any criticism of what she thinks is a terrible presidency

    So she’s basically saying: “Voters are dumb idiots and that should not be taken advantage of.” I mean, who but a dumb idiot would jump on the birther bandwagon and *not* criticize Obama for everything else he could be criticized for?

    Has it really ever happened that someone stating “I don’t like Obamacare” or “I don’t like Obama getting involved in Libya” was met with “so, are you a birther, then?”?

    This sounds like another reversal of facts, just like birthers always claim they are called racists for simply disagreeing with Obama’s politics.

  36. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 12, 2011 at 11:27 am #

    The Magic M: You can’t fake *that* kind of stupid unless you’re Robert de Niro or Dustin Hoffman or Tom Hanks. They’d be getting Academy Awards for portraying a birther.

    I think I’d go see that. Forest Gump in his old age becomes a birther

  37. avatar
    Wile E. April 12, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I think I’d go see that.Forest Gump in his old age becomes a birther

    “I may not be a very smart man…but I know who Vah-tell is.”

  38. avatar
    Stanislaw April 12, 2011 at 12:22 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I think I’d go see that.Forest Gump in his old age becomes a birther

    Makes sense, to me. Forrest Gump was mentally retarded, just like all the other birthers.

  39. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 12, 2011 at 2:13 pm #

    Stanislaw: Makes sense, to me. Forrest Gump was mentally retarded, just like all the other birthers.

    Jennay I just don’t understand it very much. Why don’t i have a long form birth certificate for Forrest Junior?

  40. avatar
    JohnC April 12, 2011 at 4:11 pm #

    Here’s a good article from The Atlantic‘s website…

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/04/what-donald-trumps-birther-investigators-will-find-in-hawaii/237198/

    What Donald Trump’s Birther Investigators Will Find in Hawaii
    By Joshua Green

    Apr 12 2011, 1:39 PM ET 115
    The path to Obama’s birth certificate, as told by someone who’s looked

    Donald Trump is making a big show of his sudden, flamboyant conversion to “birtherism”–the absurd belief that President Obama wasn’t born in the United States. Trump has dispatched private investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama’s origins, and he’s getting plenty of mileage from an often-credulous media by insinuating darkly about what they’re finding. Republican voters seem to like it.

    Lost in this circus is that Trump is hardly the first Obama opponent to harbor these suspicions–or to act on them. The path his investigators are presumably taking is a well-trodden one. Others have already looked. And one of them agreed, on the condition of anonymity, to walk me through exactly what Trump’s private eyes will find. Here’s what I learned:

    When you go to Hawaii to investigate Obama’s birth, what you’re looking to examine are public records. They’re easy to find. Fly into the Honolulu airport, rent a car, and drive downtown to the state library. You can’t miss it: it’s practically in the shadow of the gold-leaf King Kamehameha statue in front of the Aliiolani Hale, the former palace. Once inside the library, head downstairs where they keep the microfilm. Obama was born (they tell us) on August 4, 1961, but you’ll want the August 13, 1961 edition of the Honolulu Star-Advertiser, because that’s when the birth announcement appeared. When you’ve loaded up the film, flip to the back pages, to the section of the paper called “Vital Statistic.” This is the record of births, marriages, and deaths provided by the Hawaii Department of Health’s Bureau of Vital Statistics. When you get to Page B-6, scan down the lefthand column–there it is, toward the bottom:

    Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy., son, Aug. 4

    Congratulations! You’ve located the birth announcement. Nothing indicates obvious Kenyan-Communist plotting or the nefarious handiwork of Bill Ayers. And the competing paper, the Honolulu Star-Bulletin, also published an announcement. But you’ll want to be diligent and investigate that address. So you’ll head back upstairs and hunt down a copy of the Honolulu City Directory. Actually, because these documents are snapshots in time, you’ll want the city directories from 1960 through 1962, to see if you can establish any pattern of movement.

    After you’ve lugged them to a table, you’ll find the address: it turns out to belong to the Dunhams, who are the parents of Ann Dunham, Obama’s mother. If you keep looking, you’ll also discover that Barack Obama Sr. is listed at a separate address, 625 11th Ave. in Kaimuki, close to the University of Hawaii. So you can surmise that Obama’s parents may not have lived together. You can also find a newspaper article in which Barack Obama Sr. talks about how he is going to Harvard. A short while later, Obama’s mother, Ann, returns to using her maiden name, Dunham, and several years after that, the parents divorce. And that’s all you’re going to find.

    Obama was born at the Kapiolani Medical Center, where he (or more likely his mother) was issued a “certificate of live birth,” the cat-nippy phrase that gets the birthers howling at the moon. You can visit the Kapiolani Medical Center. But you can’t obtain a copy of Obama’s certificate of live birth because the Federal Health Information Privacy Act of 1999, which protects medical records from public scrutiny, forbids it. The Obama campaign probably worsened the situation by releasing this copy of a certificate of live birth–worsened it because this is obviously only a copy (printed from a computer) and not the original. So the effect on the birther rumors was like the effect of steroids on Barry Bonds: it made everything bigger and uglier.

    But the point is, that’s it. That’s the whole paper trail, all there is to find. My friend says you can do the entire investigation in a single day: Leave DC first thing in the morning, obtain the documents, and you’ll still have time to sip a mai-tai on the beach before catching your flight home in the evening. He even went on Expedia and made me an itinerary: the whole trip would only cost $1228.40 (mai-tai not included). So, for me, the takeaway here is that Trump is a fool; he’s getting robbed by his investigators, who are taking their sweet time in Hawaii; and he’s not going to turn up anything. Also, I’m going to bring this surprisingly reasonably priced itinerary to my editor’s attention and see if I can’t wrangle an assignment.

  41. avatar
    Obsolete April 12, 2011 at 4:26 pm #

    The Atlantic article forgets the birth index, which they could view.

  42. avatar
    Jules April 12, 2011 at 4:29 pm #

    I was rather surprised that Donald Trump was allowed to make several misstatements on his Today Show interview without being interrupted for the purpose of informing viewers that Trump was demonstrably wrong as a matter of fact. Neutrality in journalism does not mean simply supplying a microphone for any person to broadcast whatever nonsense he or she wants. It requires a serious presentation of facts and evidence to inform viewers about objective truth so that they may then apply their own opinions and value judgments. As most viewers would not have heard all the evidence showing that Trump was talking rubbish, viewers were misled by having Trump’s claims stand alone as if they were yet to be discredited.

  43. avatar
    Sef April 12, 2011 at 5:23 pm #

    JohnC: Trump is a fool

    Who knew?

  44. avatar
    Stanislaw April 12, 2011 at 5:54 pm #

    Sef: Who knew?

    Who didn’t?

  45. avatar
    G April 12, 2011 at 9:10 pm #

    Jules: I was rather surprised that Donald Trump was allowed to make several misstatements on his Today Show interview without being interrupted for the purpose of informing viewers that Trump was demonstrably wrong as a matter of fact. Neutrality in journalism does not mean simply supplying a microphone for any person to broadcast whatever nonsense he or she wants. It requires a serious presentation of facts and evidence to inform viewers about objective truth so that they may then apply their own opinions and value judgments. As most viewers would not have heard all the evidence showing that Trump was talking rubbish, viewers were misled by having Trump’s claims stand alone as if they were yet to be discredited.

    Agreed. Sadly, there is very little journalism done these days. Its become nothing but an endless sideshow of empty-headed info-tainment. High on sensationalism and encouraging false “controvery” for ratings. Saying crazy things gets you attention, not correction. People blather their uninformed opinions endlessly, practically unchecked and the only interruptions are when people start talking over each other.

  46. avatar
    Robert Clark April 12, 2011 at 11:28 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I would not make a good reporter. I would be too embarrassed to ask the President of the United States such a stupid question.

    How about even asking it of one his advisor’s David Plouffe? Christiane Amanpour asked Plouffe about the controversy Trump has raised by prefacing the question with the statement “I know that you’ve answered all these questions about the birth certificate, but…”
    she then only asks him about the effect of Trumps raising the issue on the campaign.
    In other words she is making no attempt to question him on the questions Trump raised.

    April 10, 2011David Plouffe: There’s Zero Chance ‘Sideshow’ Donald Trump Would Ever Be Hired By The American People.
    http://www.hapblog.com/2011/04/david-plouffe-theres-zero-chance.html

    Will anyone in the mainstream news media ask ANYONE in the Obama administration two simple questions:

    1.)It’s all over the internet that Obama was born in Kapiolani hospital, will the White House confirm he was born there?

    2.)Is the White House prepared to state who President Obama’s birth doctor was?

    Bob

  47. avatar
    obsolete April 13, 2011 at 12:06 am #

    And the birthers will take him at his word and say “well, that settles it!” ?

  48. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 13, 2011 at 12:15 am #

    Robert Clark: How about even asking it of one his advisor’s David Plouffe? Christiane Amanpour askedPlouffe about the controversy Trump has raised by prefacing the question with the statement “I know that you’ve answered all these questions about the birth certificate, but…”
    she then only asks him about the effect of Trumps raising the issue on the campaign.In other words she is making no attempt to question him on the questions Trump raised.

    April 10, 2011David Plouffe: There’s Zero Chance Sideshow’ Donald Trump Would Ever Be Hired By The American People.
    http://www.hapblog.com/2011/04/david-plouffe-theres-zero-chance.html

    Will anyone in the mainstream news media ask ANYONE in the Obama administration two simple questions:

    1.)It’s all over the internet that Obama was born in Kapiolani hospital, will the White House confirm he was born there?

    2.)Is the White House prepared to state who President Obama’s birth doctor was?

    Bob

    Why should the president do anything to stop the birthers (and Trump) from shooting the Republicans in the foot?

  49. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 13, 2011 at 12:16 am #

    Robert Clark: 1.)It’s all over the internet that Obama was born in Kapiolani hospital, will the White House confirm he was born there?

    2.)Is the White House prepared to state who President Obama’s birth doctor was?

    Why should the president do anything to stop the birthers (and Trump) from shooting the Republicans in the foot?

  50. avatar
    G April 13, 2011 at 12:21 am #

    Robert Clark: How about even asking it of one his advisor’s David Plouffe? Christiane Amanpour asked Plouffe about the controversy Trump has raised by prefacing the question with the statement “I know that you’ve answered all these questions about the birth certificate, but…”
    she then only asks him about the effect of Trumps raising the issue on the campaign.
    In other words she is making no attempt to question him on the questions Trump raised.

    Simple answer Bob. Christiane Amanpour is probably one of the most respected, accomplished and serious journalists still out there. There is nothing serious to Birther arguments. Therefore, she is not going to lower herself to arguing them.

    Would you expect her to ask NASA if the moon is made of green cheeze? Same level of argument

    Robert Clark: Will anyone in the mainstream news media ask ANYONE in the Obama administration two simple questions:
    1.)It’s all over the internet that Obama was born in Kapiolani hospital, will the White House confirm he was born there?
    2.)Is the White House prepared to state who President Obama’s birth doctor was?

    I’ll answer all of this section with a few points of my own:

    1. Be patient. As the 2012 campaign moves forward, I’m pretty sure at some point those questions will be asked by someone in the media. I’m pretty sure you’ll receive further answers…and almost certain you’ll just be upset again because of it. However, if Obama or his campaign chose to NOT answer those questions, he (or his campaign) would be fully within his right to chose not to answer them. People who don’t like that are free to not vote for him. It is that simple.

    2. Kapiʻolani is the hospital and the doctor was most likely Dr. Rodney West.

    3. Why do you care? You obviously don’t care about Obama and will not be voting for him regardless, so why is this important to you? What are you hoping to find?

    4. Most importantly, WHY do either of those two questions matter at all? They don’t change nor impact anything. Nor do they have anything to do with NBC status.

    5. Finally, if those questions were NEVER asked/answered, it wouldn’t make jack squat difference. You have every right to be curious and ask questions, but you simply aren’t entitled to get those answers.

  51. avatar
    JoZeppy April 13, 2011 at 12:30 am #

    Robert Clark: Will anyone in the mainstream news media ask ANYONE in the Obama administration two simple questions:
    1.)It’s all over the internet that Obama was born in Kapiolani hospital, will the White House confirm he was born there?
    2.)Is the White House prepared to state who President Obama’s birth doctor was?
    Bob

    Why would any real journalist ask such stupid an irrelevant questions? What’s the point?

    The President sent the hospital a letter stating it was the place of his birth. To the reality based world, that’s confirmation enough. Secondly, who the hell cares who is doctor is, and you’re assuming the President even knows.

  52. avatar
    G April 13, 2011 at 1:05 am #

    Robert Clark: How about even asking it of one his advisor’s David Plouffe? Christiane Amanpour asked Plouffe about the controversy Trump has raised by prefacing the question with the statement “I know that you’ve answered all these questions about the birth certificate, but…”
    she then only asks him about the effect of Trumps raising the issue on the campaign.
    In other words she is making no attempt to question him on the questions Trump raised.

    Simple answer Bob. Christiane Amanpour is probably one of the most respected, accomplished and serious journalists still out there. There is nothing serious to Birther arguments. Therefore, she is not going to lower herself to arguing them.

    Would you expect her to ask NASA if the moon is made of green cheese? Same level of argument.

  53. avatar
    G April 13, 2011 at 1:07 am #

    Robert Clark: Will anyone in the mainstream news media ask ANYONE in the Obama administration two simple questions:
    1.)It’s all over the internet that Obama was born in Kapiolani hospital, will the White House confirm he was born there?
    2.)Is the White House prepared to state who President Obama’s birth doctor was?
    Bob

    I’ll answer all of this section with a few points of my own:

    1. Be patient. As the 2012 campaign moves forward, I’m pretty sure at some point those questions will be asked by someone in the media. I’m pretty sure you’ll receive further answers…and almost certain you’ll just be upset again because of it. However, if Obama or his campaign chose to NOT answer those questions, he (or his campaign) would be fully within his right to chose not to answer them. People who don’t like that are free to not vote for him. It is that simple.

    2. Kapiʻolani is the hospital and the doctor was most likely Dr. Rodney West.

    3. Why do you care? You obviously don’t care about Obama and will not be voting for him regardless, so why is this important to you? What are you hoping to find?

    4. Most importantly, WHY do either of those two questions matter at all? They don’t change nor impact anything. Nor do they have anything to do with NBC status.

    5. Finally, if those questions were NEVER asked/answered, it wouldn’t make jack squat difference. You have every right to be curious and ask questions, but you simply aren’t entitled to get those answers.

  54. avatar
    G April 13, 2011 at 1:11 am #

    Bob,

    In regards to your first part about journalist C.A. interviewing Trump, I’ll give you a simple answer.

    She is probably one of the most respected, accomplished and serious journalists still out there. There is nothing serious to Birther arguments. Therefore, she is not going to lower herself to arguing them.

    Would you expect her to ask N.A.S.A. if the moon is made of green cheese? Same level of argument.

  55. avatar
    Joey April 13, 2011 at 2:44 am #

    Robert Clark: How about even asking it of one his advisor’s David Plouffe? Christiane Amanpour askedPlouffe about the controversy Trump has raised by prefacing the question with the statement “I know that you’ve answered all these questions about the birth certificate, but…”
    she then only asks him about the effect of Trumps raising the issue on the campaign.In other words she is making no attempt to question him on the questions Trump raised.

    April 10, 2011David Plouffe: There’s Zero Chance Sideshow’ Donald Trump Would Ever Be Hired By The American People.
    http://www.hapblog.com/2011/04/david-plouffe-theres-zero-chance.html

    Will anyone in the mainstream news media ask ANYONE in the Obama administration two simple questions:

    1.)It’s all over the internet that Obama was born in Kapiolani hospital, will the White House confirm he was born there?

    2.)Is the White House prepared to state who President Obama’s birth doctor was?

    Bob

    I know what hospital I was born in but I don’t have the vaguest idea who my birth doctor was and I have only a short form birth certificate in my possession that doesn’t list my birth doctor. Obama may also not know who his birth doctor was, or care.

    President Obama already named Kapi’olani as “the place of my birth” in the letter that he wrote to Kapi’olani congratulating the hospital on its 100th Anniversary.

  56. avatar
    Joey April 13, 2011 at 2:47 am #

    Link to Kapiolani Medical Center’s Centennial Magazine with the letter written by President Obama naming Kapiolani as “the place of my birth.”
    http://www.kapiolanigift.org/doc/centennial-magazine.pdf

  57. avatar
    The Magic M April 13, 2011 at 5:12 am #

    > It’s all over the internet that Obama was born in Kapiolani hospital, will the White House confirm he was born there?

    And if the White House does not answer a request to confirm Obama is a black male, it proves there’s something fishy and he is probably a white woman who tanned too much? Get real, will you?

    That’s the funny thing with you birthers, if you are faced with facts you can’t “lie away”, you keep asking for confirmations of confirmations of confirmations.
    Like with the COLB – it’s not enough for you the Hawaiian DoH confirmed Obama’s COLB is legit, you want confirmation he actually requested it. Pathetic. A story straight from the booby hatch.

  58. avatar
    Robert Clark April 15, 2011 at 7:57 am #

    JoZeppy: Why would any real journalist ask such stupid an irrelevant questions? What’s the point?The President sent the hospital a letter stating it was the place of his birth. To the reality based world, that’s confirmation enough.

    The White House won’t now admit it wrote the letter. That’s the point.

    Bob

  59. avatar
    Robert Clark April 15, 2011 at 8:00 am #

    The Magic M: > It’s all over the internet that Obama was born in Kapiolani hospital, will the White House confirm he was born there?And if the White House does not answer a request to confirm Obama is a black male, it proves there’s something fishy and he is probably a white woman who tanned too much? Get real, will you?.

    If 40% of the population doubted he was a black male and he still refused to answer the question, then yeah I would there was something fishy.

    Bob

  60. avatar
    Scientist April 15, 2011 at 8:24 am #

    Robert Clark: If 40% of the population doubted he was a black male and he still refused to answer the question, then yeah I would there was something fishy.

    What if they wanted him to pull his pants down and prove it (the male part anyway)? Should he do that?

    The White House wrote the letter. That’s a fact. What is the meaning of the letter anyway? The President doesn’t actually know where he was born any more than you and I do. He actually couldn’t testify in court regarding the events of his birth. Nor could you or I.

    i challenge you to put your birth certificate on line (block out the name) and then provide PROOF that it’s real. I think if you are unwilling to do that then Doc should ban you from the site as a fraud.

  61. avatar
    Suranis April 15, 2011 at 8:24 am #

    Robert Clark: If 40% of the population doubted he was a black male and he still refused to answer the question, then yeah I would there was something fishy.

    To paraphrase someone far smarter than myself, just because 40% of people might answer in a poll that it is possible that at some point apples fell upwards, it does not mean that we should give equal credence to that possibility in discussion.

  62. avatar
    Robert Clark April 15, 2011 at 8:28 am #

    Robert Clark: How about even asking it of one his advisor’s David Plouffe? Christiane Amanpour asked Plouffe about the controversy Trump has raised by prefacing the question with the statement “I know that you’ve answered all these questions about the birth certificate, but…”she then only asks him about the effect of Trumps raising the issue on the campaign.In other words she is making no attempt to question him on the questions Trump raised. April 10, 2011David Plouffe: There’s Zero Chance Sideshow’ Donald Trump Would Ever Be Hired By The American People.http://www.hapblog.com/2011/04/david-plouffe-theres-zero-chance.htmlWill anyone in the mainstream news media ask ANYONE in the Obama administration two simple questions:1.)It’s all over the internet that Obama was born in Kapiolani hospital, will the White House confirm he was born there?2.)Is the White House prepared to state who President Obama’s birth doctor was?Bob

    Yesterday, George Stephanopoulos did an interview with the president:

    Exclusive Interview with Obama: Video and Part One of the Transcript
    April 14, 2011 6:30 PM
    http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2011/04/exclusive-interview-with-president-barack-obama-transcript-part-one.html

    Again he asked the president about the Trump controversy but only in the context of the effect it would have on the campaign, not about the specific questions about his birth hospital and doctor.
    Actually, in this scenario I give George a pass on that, at this time. It might not be appropriate to have raised this contentious issue in that setting. However, later on when the campaign is in full swing and tough questions get leveled at candidates on both sides, I think it would be.

    Bob

  63. avatar
    Robert Clark April 15, 2011 at 8:34 am #

    Scientist: What if they wanted him to pull his pants down and prove it (the male part anyway)? Should he do that? The White House wrote the letter. That’s a fact.

    OK. Let’s ask Neil Abercrombie. He’s the one who presented the letter to the hospital. Oh, now Abercrombie won’t comment on the letter either…

    Bob

  64. avatar
    Scientist April 15, 2011 at 8:39 am #

    Robert Clark: Let’s ask Neil Abercrombie. He’s the one who presented the letter to the hospital. Oh, now Abercrombie won’t comment on the letter either

    Have you called his office? It’s too early now, but try this afternoon. Don’t ask others to do your work/

    Are you going to prove YOUR b.c. is real? If you don’t then you are a FRAUD. FRAUD!!

  65. avatar
    obsolete April 15, 2011 at 9:04 am #

    Scientist: i challenge you to put your birth certificate on line (block out the name) and then provide PROOF that it’s real. I think if you are unwilling to do that then Doc should ban you from the site as a fraud.

    I think this is a good idea, Doc C- Let’s put a birther to the test!

  66. avatar
    Scientist April 15, 2011 at 9:10 am #

    obsolete: I think this is a good idea, Doc C- Let’s put a birther to the test!

    Yes and whatever he uses as “proof”, has to be accepted for Obama as well. Fair is fair.

    And “I’m not running for office” doesn’t wash. Birth ceritifcate fraud is a crime whether or not you are running for office.

  67. avatar
    G April 15, 2011 at 10:15 am #

    Robert Clark: The White House won’t now admit it wrote the letter. That’s the point.Bob

    No. The White House simply won’t waste its time answering stupid Birther questions and it doesn’t have to. Deal with it.

  68. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 15, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    Robert Clark: OK. Let’s ask Neil Abercrombie. He’s the one who presented the letter to the hospital. Oh, now Abercrombie won’t comment on the letter either…Bob

    The white house won’t confirm that Obama signed any executive orders even though they’re listed online and on the white house website. I guess they don’t exist

  69. avatar
    The Magic M April 15, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    The White House won’t confirm Hillary Clinton is a woman nor that Dick Cheney never beat his wife nor that Earth is a sphere. Go figure!

  70. avatar
    The Magic M April 15, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    > Is the White House prepared to state who President Obama’s birth doctor was?

    Why would they? How would they even know in the first place? Why would that have any bearing on Obama’s eligibility?

    Is your mother prepared to state what her phone number was back in High School? What does she have to hide?

  71. avatar
    JoZeppy April 15, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    Robert Clark: The White House won’t now admit it wrote the letter. That’s the point.Bob

    And why would the White House need to? It’s on White House letterhead. It was read aloud by the now Governor of the State of Hawaii, and the Hospital used it in fundraising materials. There is no need for the White House to amit anything. It’s not that they refuse to confirm the letter, it’s that the letter doesn’t need any additional confirmation, and the White House is ignoring you and your fellow birthers because you’re all nutters and not worth their time.

  72. avatar
    Sef April 15, 2011 at 11:30 am #

    The Magic M: Is your mother prepared to state what her phone number was back in High School? What does she have to hide?

    Mine was 3 shorts and a long.

  73. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 15, 2011 at 11:34 am #

    Sef:
    Mine was 3 shorts and a long.

    Mom’s was Volunteer-6 4636.

  74. avatar
    Sef April 15, 2011 at 11:48 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Mom’s was Volunteer-6 4636.

    Hello, Central!

  75. avatar
    Suranis April 15, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    You know what the difference between a Birthers birth certificate and mine is? Mine says “Birth certificate” *smug*

  76. avatar
    Robert Clark April 15, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): The white house won’t confirm that Obama signed any executive orders even though they’re listed online and on the white house website.I guess they don’t exist

    That’s not true. Executive orders are routinely discussed by the White House and the press. But that’s not what this is anyway. It’s a letter sent out from the White House. If you go to the White House web site you’ll see there is a section for the letters sent out by the White House. It happens many times that they are acknowledged. It’s not the case that they are routinely disavowed.

    Bob

  77. avatar
    JoZeppy April 15, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    Robert Clark: It’s not the case that they are routinely disavowed.

    Except that no one has disavowed anything. They just hold you in such contempt that they don’t feel the need to even entertain your questions.

  78. avatar
    Robert Clark April 15, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    The Magic M:
    The White House won’t confirm Hillary Clinton is a woman nor that Dick Cheney never beat his wife nor that Earth is a sphere. Go figure!

    The first and the last are utterly innocuous and non-controversial. It would make no sense to take a “no comment” attitude towards an inquiry asking if you wrote letters saying them.
    About the second if the White House wrote a letter on that topic either way you would imagine that would be controversial, and they would not want to comment on it. Are saying the statement “Obama was born at Kapiolani hospital” is also controversial?

    Bob

  79. avatar
    Scientist April 15, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    Robert Clark comes here casting allegations yet refuses to establish his own bona fides.

    I have challenged him to post his birth certificate and then prove its validity under the same standards that he demands from Obama. Fair is fair. Clean hands.

    I urge everyone to ignore Bob and no longer respond to his posts unless he does so,

    Squeaky Fromm went away once she was ignored. Bob will do the same.

  80. avatar
    Daniel April 15, 2011 at 1:34 pm #

    Robert Clark: The first and the last are utterly innocuous and non-controversial.

    AS is the nutbag birther conspiracy.

  81. avatar
    G April 15, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    Robert Clark: The first and the last are utterly innocuous and non-controversial. It would make no sense to take a “no comment” attitude towards an inquiry asking if you wrote letters saying them.About the second if the White House wrote a letter on that topic either way you would imagine that would be controversial, and they would not want to comment on it. Are saying the statement “Obama was born at Kapiolani hospital” is also controversial?Bob

    JoZeppy already answered you and said it succinctly, so I’ll just restate:

    JoZeppy: Except that no one has disavowed anything. They just hold you in such contempt that they don’t feel the need to even entertain your questions.

  82. avatar
    sfjeff April 15, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    Bob,

    did you ever decide whether you believe Dr. Fukino was lieing or not?

    We have already established that Dr. Fukino has said that she saw the original birth certificate, signed by a doctor, and that President Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural born citizen.

    Based upon that statement- either she is lieing, she is mistaken or she is correct.

    Do you think she is lieing- and if so what brings you to that conclusion?

    Do you think she is mistaken- and if so, please postulate how she would be able to make such a grossly incompetant mistake.

    Or do you think she is correct- in which case- what does it matter if we know the name of the doctor or the hospital?

  83. avatar
    Robert Clark April 15, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    Running for president requires a different level of verification than for, er, posting on a blog.
    If I were running for president I would PROUDLY release my original long form birth certificate showing my home town and hospital of my birth.

    Bob

  84. avatar
    G April 15, 2011 at 2:36 pm #

    Robert Clark: Running for president requires a different level of verification than for, er, posting on a blog.If I were running for president I would PROUDLY release my original long form birth certificate showing my home town and hospital of my birth.Bob

    Well good for you. Now put your money where your mouth is and register as a candidate. Let’s see you walk the talk.

    However, that has never been a requirement before. A presidential campaign is an arduous event. The last one was the longest and most intensive in history, at both the primary and national election level. There was more 24/7 coverage of the candidates than any other time in the past.

    At that time, Obama’s background was more of a concern for voters to factor in, as he was applying for a new job. Obviously, what he did then was more than sufficient to win such a decisive victory in becoming POTUS.

    In a re-election, he’ll be running on his accomplishments and plan for the future. That is how re-election campaigns work. He doesn’t have to identify who he is anymore – he’s been holding the job. The other candidates will have the harder benchmark to explain who they are and why they as an unknown quantity are better than the known quantity of the man already holding office. Simple as that.

  85. avatar
    JoZeppy April 15, 2011 at 2:50 pm #

    Robert Clark: Running for president requires a different level of verification than for, er, posting on a blog.If I were running for president I would PROUDLY release my original long form birth certificate showing my home town and hospital of my birth.Bob

    That’s nice. Do you want a cookie?

    However, in this country, we have laws. The big supersized of those being the US Constitution. A bunch of malcontents and second rate political hacks trying to score points with their red neck, back water constitutents don’t get to ignore that Constitution, and tell another state that their records aren’t good enough, nor do they get to add requirements to Constitutionally defined offices.

    For a bunch of people who claim to be motivated by defense of the Constitution, you really don’t respect it very much.

  86. avatar
    Scientist April 15, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    Robert Clark: If I were running for president I would PROUDLY release my original long form birth certificate showing my home town and hospital of my birth.

    i don’t believe you, LIAR! FRAUD!

    Only PROVEN facts count

    Clean hands- You cannot claim fraud when you are a fraudster

  87. avatar
    nemocapn April 15, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    I’m looking forward to learning if Mitt Romney can produce his” long form” birth certificate. The old “Certificate of Live Birth” had the physician name on it, and those records still exist on microfilm, but will Michigan be able to provide a certified copy of it? Since March 2001, Michigan birth certificates from before 1950 have been printed on security paper. If the picture on this web site is an accurate depiction, the new “Certificate of Live Birth” doesn’t have the name of the physician:
    http://www.fdeus.com/us/images/Birth%20certificates/Michigan%20Birth%20Certificate.jpg

    Does anyone know if Michigan’s new “long form” can include an image of the original, or does it simply transcribe the information like the example above?

  88. avatar
    Scientist April 15, 2011 at 4:17 pm #

    Let me note some interesting facts about one of the birthers who posts here:

    1. They claim they voted for Gore in 2000. Anyone seen his birth certificate? What doctor delivered him? What hospital? He served 8 years as vice President without providing that information.

    2. They claim they voted for John Kerry in 2004. Anyone seen his birth certificate? What doctor delivered him? What hospital? He spent as much time in Switzerland as a chilld as Obama spent in indonesia (or more).

    3. They claim to have supported and still support Hillary Clinton. Anyone seen her birth certificate? What doctor delivered her? What hospital?

    4. They claimed to have voted for McCain in 2008. Anyone seen his birth certificate (besides 1 reporter)? What doctor delivered him? What hospital? Actually we supposedly know the hospital though who has confirmed it? The one thing that seems certain is it was not in the United States.

    Every single birther over the age of 20 (barring those who are not US citizens) has voted for presidential candidates who have provided no proof of eligibility for office. They have also voted for US senators, representatives, governors, state reps, town board members, sherriffs, school board members, etc. who never provided a shred of evidence of eligibility for those offices.

    Every single one of them is a liar and a hypocrite.

  89. avatar
    Robert Clark April 15, 2011 at 6:03 pm #

    Scientist: i don’t believe you, LIAR! FRAUD! Only PROVEN facts countClean hands- You cannot claim fraud when you are a fraudster

    Why is that so hard to believe? Most of us are proud of where we were born and the hospital we were born in. Is Obama ashamed of the hospital he was born in?
    Then why won’t he shout it proudly, “Yes, I was born in Kapiolani hospital.”

    Bob

  90. avatar
    Scientist April 15, 2011 at 6:26 pm #

    Robert Clark: Why is that so hard to believe? Most of us are proud of where we were born and the hospital we were born in. Is Obama ashamed of the hospital he was born in?
    Then why won’t he shout it proudly, “Yes, I was born in Kapiolani hospital.”

    are proud of where we were born and the hospital we were born in

    How do you know what hospital you were born in? Do you remember the experience?

  91. avatar
    Keith April 15, 2011 at 9:48 pm #

    Robert Clark: Then why won’t he shout it proudly, “Yes, I was born in Kapiolani hospital.”

    He has.

    Please read this.

  92. avatar
    Scientist April 15, 2011 at 11:31 pm #

    Scientist: How do you know what hospital you were born in? Do you remember the experience?

    Since Bob hasn;t answered I will help him out. Bob may believe he was born in Hospital A in city B, but he doesn;t know it, since he doesn’t remember his own birth. Bob’s hospital-generated birth certificate may say he was and his parents may say he was, but they may be incorrect. Here’s what could have happened., Bob’s parents hoped to sneak in a trip to Peru to see Machu Picchu before the baby came along. His Mom went into labor and out came Bob. Not knowing what to do, they hitched rides through South America, Central America and Mexico and snuck across the border. They bribed a clerk at Hospital A to prepare and file a birth certificate for them. Not wanting to disturb Bob with this story, they simply told him he was born in Hospital A. Now Bob is launching his Presidential campaign. He really has no platform or ideas and he is a poor speaker with bad hair, so he bases his campaign on the only thing he has, his birth certificate and the hospital he was born in. Both of which are lies.

    Is this story about Bob true? I don’t know. But I think he needs to come out today and prove it isn’t. How can he do that? I don’t know, that’s his problem.