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Investigators in Hawaii

You may remember a Louisiana investigator, Jorge Baro, that didn’t personally go to Hawaii, but submitted an affidavit about what some other unnamed investigators found. Ed Hale of Plains Radio paid some private eyes for some earth shattering documents that didn’t shatter the earth. Jerome Corsi went to Hawaii to research his book. Donald Trump maybe, kinda, sorta, just a little bit had some people maybe in Hawaii, looking into things (and they’re not believing what they are finding). (Trump is a smart guy, by the way.) The AP sent someone to snap a photo of the birth index.

So now CNN joins the stream of investigators in Hawaii with this from the Anderson Cooper 360 show blog:

Gary Tuchman travelled [sic] to Hawaii .. and what he found will be difficult for some people to accept.

Transcript here.

Anderson Cooper tweets:

Does Trump really have investigators in hawaii looking into obama’s birth? We went there, but couldn’t find anyone they’d talked with

There is a convenient compilation of all the CNN videos at The Fogbow.

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159 Responses to Investigators in Hawaii

  1. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 25, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    Doc I haven’t found any videos yet but here is a transcript on Livedash
    http://www.livedash.com/transcript/anderson_cooper_360/49/CNN/Monday_April_25_2011/586968/

  2. avatar
    Scientist April 25, 2011 at 11:16 pm #

    Tuchman found:
    1. If you go to DOH and ask for a birth certificate, you get a COLB, He found a guy born the same day as Obama who went with him.
    2. In order to get a photocopy (uncertified) of the original b.c. you must file an FOIA request and wait several weeks.
    3. in the past year (not sure if referring to 2011 or since April 2010) only 1 person has done so. They were male. This kills the Miki Booth’s friend’s daughter story and like the “Danae’ one too,
    4. A long-time reporter for the Honolulu Advertiser confirms ads came from DOH. They did not accept paid birth notices placed by relatives.
    5. Everyone Tuchman spoke with said they had not spoken with any investigators associated with Trump.

  3. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 25, 2011 at 11:17 pm #

    Oh Doc you’re going to love this. They found someone born 13 hours after Obama and they went down to get his birth certificate and they could only get the COLB.

    The guy’s birthdate was August 5th, 1961 the date filed was also August 8th. Blows away NC1s little game

    00:04:46 >> Reporter: We met 49-year-old stick vitalic and told him we’d pay $7 for a new birth certificate for him.
    00:04:55 >> I’m gary tuchman with cnn.
    00:04:55 We’re here to get a birth certificate for stig.
    00:04:56 >> Reporter: We asked stig because we also saw his birth announcement in the honolulu newspaper.
    00:05:04 In the same article, four names down, another newborn, born 13 hours earlier.
    00:05:08 Barack obama.
    00:05:10 >> Do you give him his original certificate or an electronic copy?
    00:05:14 >> It’s a computerized version.
    00:05:16 >> Reporter: This is stig’s certificate of live birth.
    00:05:18 It’s the same form barack obama has.
    00:05:20 The very same form every hawaiian now gets when they request their birth certificate.
    00:05:25 Has his name on, it his birth DATE, AUGUST 5th, 1961, THE DAY After the president.
    00:05:29 SAYS IT WAS FILED AUGUST 8th, 1961.
    00:05:31 This is a raised seal to show its authenticity.
    00:05:34 And on the bottom perhaps the most important line.
    00:05:35 “This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in ” nobody we talked to doubts stig’s citizenship.

  4. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 25, 2011 at 11:21 pm #

    I think that Corsi is most likely the source of the high-grade birther crazy that Trump is spewing. What birther memes has Trump parroted? It seems to me he’s stuck to the mainstream birther arguments (no Vattel, no Indonesia – I would assume because he has lawyers telling him that they are non-starters. The latest was his mention of the Nordyke twins. It seems like Trump is determined to drag this publicity stunt until his show is done for the season and milk all of the publicity out of it he can. I’m amazed that even the birthers would fall for this… no, I’m not.

  5. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 25, 2011 at 11:24 pm #

    Doc Okay the video is up
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/25/birthers.obama.hawaii/index.html?hpt=C1

  6. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 25, 2011 at 11:25 pm #

    Scientist: 5. Everyone Tuchman spoke with said they had not spoken with any investigators associated with Trump.

    You just know that Trump’s crack team is going to turn out to be Butterdezillion, Miss Tickly, and Ladysforest… (and they can’t believe what they’re finding!)

  7. avatar
    Sef April 25, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    Oh Doc you’re going to love this.They found someone born 13 hours after Obama and they went down to get his birth certificate and they could only get the COLB.

    The guy’s birthdate was August 5th, 1961 the date filed was also August 8th.Blows away NC1s little game

    00:04:46>> Reporter: We met 49-year-old stick vitalic and told him we’d pay $7 for a new birth certificate for him.
    00:04:55>> I’m gary tuchman with cnn.
    00:04:55We’re here to get a birth certificate for stig.
    00:04:56>> Reporter: We asked stig because we also saw his birth announcement in the honolulu newspaper.
    00:05:04In the same article, four names down, another newborn, born 13 hours earlier.
    00:05:08Barack obama.
    00:05:10>> Do you give him his original certificate or an electronic copy?
    00:05:14>> It’s a computerized version.
    00:05:16>> Reporter: This is stig’s certificate of live birth.
    00:05:18It’s the same form barack obama has.
    00:05:20The very same form every hawaiian now gets when they request their birth certificate.
    00:05:25Has his name on, it his birth DATE, AUGUST 5th, 1961, THE DAY After the president.
    00:05:29SAYS IT WAS FILED AUGUST 8th, 1961.
    00:05:31This is a raised seal to show its authenticity.
    00:05:34And on the bottom perhaps the most important line.
    00:05:35“This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in ” nobody we talked to doubts stig’s citizenship.

    Whoda ever thunk it?

  8. avatar
    gorefan April 25, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    Sef: stick vitalic

    His name is Stig. Waidelich.

  9. avatar
    Greg April 25, 2011 at 11:50 pm #

    Could you see his index number? Nc1 isn’t going to believe this Stig character was actually born without seeing that number.

  10. avatar
    Reality Check April 25, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    gorefan: His name is Stig. Waidelich.

    I DVR’ed it and the certificate number is 151-1961-010920

  11. avatar
    Sef April 25, 2011 at 11:57 pm #

    Reality Check:the certificate number is 151-1961-010920

    Ha ha ha ha!!!

  12. avatar
    Daniel April 26, 2011 at 12:09 am #

    Greg: Nc1 isn’t going to believe

    That’s the rub. NC1 isn’t going to believe anything which contradicts birthers, no matter how well it’s documented or proven.

    NC1 is wasting air that I might need some day.

  13. avatar
    Greg April 26, 2011 at 12:11 am #

    So

    Nordyke: 10637
    Obama: 10641
    Weidelich: 10920

    Did I see that he was born after 6?

    May I suggest that these numbers are in alphabetical order and that the distance between N and O is shorter than the distance between (NO) and W?

    Have I seen this theory before?

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/02/possible-work-flow-for-hawaiian-vital-records-in-1961/

  14. avatar
    gorefan April 26, 2011 at 12:13 am #

    Reality Check: 151-1961-010920

    Also wasn’t his certificate filed on August 8th, 1961. That’s why he made the same newspaper as the President and not the Nordykes.

    BUt that cert number makes no sense and will be used by the birthers as proof of nefarious deeds.

  15. avatar
    gorefan April 26, 2011 at 12:17 am #

    Greg: May I suggest that these numbers are in alphabetical order and that the distance between N and O is shorter than the distance between (NO) and W?

    Maybe, but when are the numbers assigned, that’s almost 300 births. Maybe the numbers are assigned monthly?

  16. avatar
    Reality Check April 26, 2011 at 12:21 am #

    gorefan: Also wasn’t his certificate filed on August 8th, 1961. That’s why he made the same newspaper as the President and not the Nordykes.

    Yes, it was filed on August 8. The time of birth appears to be 8:49 PM.

  17. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 12:24 am #

    Slartibartfast: You just know that Trump’s crack team is going to turn out to be Butterdezillion, Miss Tickly, and Ladysforest… (and they can’t believe what they’re finding!)

    LMAO! πŸ˜‰

  18. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 12:27 am #

    Greg:
    So

    Nordyke: 10637(and 8) born Aug 5 filed Aug 11
    Obama: 10641 born Aug 4 filed Aug 8
    Weidelich: 10920 born Aug 5 filed Aug 8

    Did I see that he was born after 6?

    I filled in your table…

    May I suggest that these numbers are in alphabetical order and that the distance between N and O is shorter than the distance between (NO) and W?

    Since any ‘strict dating’ scenario just went out the window, I think someone better…

    Have I seen this theory before?

    Oh, I’m sure no one was smart enough to figure this out on their own – after all, the best minds in birtherstan couldn’t do it…

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/02/possible-work-flow-for-hawaiian-vital-records-in-1961/

    Doc probably planted Stig (the guy is a complete fiction – he was some actor the Doc hired) just to make his crackpot theory look good. Doc’s ‘4 day trip’ is probably to Hawai’i to clean up loose ends…

  19. avatar
    Greg April 26, 2011 at 12:29 am #

    gorefan: Maybe, but when are the numbers assigned, that’s almost 300 births.Maybe the numbers are assigned monthly?

    Maybe, but I would imagine that 300 births in the few hours between when the Nordykes were delivered and when this new guy was born is highly unlikely. It is more likely that they were grouped and batch processed just as Doc claimed, either weekly or monthly. In fact, if we look at the number of births in Hawaii in 1961 and divide them out, we can probably guess whether it was weekly or monthly.

  20. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 12:33 am #

    Slartibartfast: Nordyke: 10637 [and 8] born Aug 5 filed Aug 11
    Obama: 10641 born Aug 4 filed Aug 8
    Weidelich: 10920 born Aug 5 filed Aug 8

    8) corrected.

  21. avatar
    Greg April 26, 2011 at 12:33 am #

    Nc1, could you please chime in here and rehabilitate your index number theory. I seem to recall you claiming that the 4 digit lower number given to Obama made his birth at a hospital completely impossible.

    We now have a data point that suggests that alphabetical hatching is highly likely.

    You have some great new theory? Or is an apology in order to Dr. C?

  22. avatar
    gorefan April 26, 2011 at 12:37 am #

    Greg: if we look at the number of births in Hawaii in 1961 and divide them out,

    I believe it is a little over 1000/month. If it was done monthly, then there would probably be more numbers between the Nordykes and the President.

    I think we’re gone to need some more cert. numbers.

    So, if some one had enough newspaper announcements from August and September, 1961. They could list all the children born in August and put them in alphabetical order see how many births there were and where the various names fall.

  23. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 12:38 am #

    Greg:
    Nc1,could you please chime in here and rehabilitate your index number theory. I seem to recall you claiming that the 4 digit lower number given to Obama made his birth at a hospital completely impossible.

    We now have a data point that suggests that alphabetical hatching is highly likely.

    You have some great new theory? Or is an apology in order to Dr. C?

    This is a good test to see if nc1 has any integrity whatsoever. What do you think the odds of Doc getting an apology are? (I’m thinking that they are less than the odds of the Large Hadron Collider making a black hole…)

  24. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 12:43 am #

    gorefan: I think we’re gone to need some more cert. numbers.

    Cert numbers? We don’t need more stinking cert numbers!

    Actually, I think that this is a significant boost for the credibility of Doc’s hypothetical work flow. I would very much like for Doc to revise that article given this new information (after he gets back, of course…)

  25. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 12:47 am #

    Slartibartfast: This is a good test to see if nc1 has any integrity whatsoever. What do you think the odds of Doc getting an apology are? (I’m thinking that they are less than the odds of the Large Hadron Collider making a black hole…)

    Let’s clarfiy that as less than the odds of the LHC making a dangerous black hole. Part of the testing is hoping to create what they call a “micro black hole” – pretty much at the sub-atomic size and one that collapses on itself and is gone in a matter of microseconds.

  26. avatar
    gorefan April 26, 2011 at 12:53 am #

    gorefan: I believe it is a little over 1000/month

    There were 17578 live births in Hawaii in 1961. So an average of 1464/month.

    Greg: You have some great new theory

    Soros created Stig in the black hole formed by the Large Hadron Collider.

    Stig was Obama’s younger twin but the grandparents only registered the oldest child on August 8th, then after they returned from Kenya, they registered Stig after putting him up for adoption.

    Stig is a CIA plant.

    There is no Stig Waidelich.

    Take your pick .

  27. avatar
    gorefan April 26, 2011 at 12:55 am #

    Slartibartfast: Actually, I think that this is a significant boost for the credibility of Doc’s hypothetical work

    Actually, I agree with you.

  28. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 1:01 am #

    G: Let’s clarfiy that as less than the odds of the LHC making a dangerous black hole.Part of the testing is hoping to create what they call a “micro black hole” – pretty much at the sub-atomic size and one that collapses on itself and is gone in a matter of microseconds.

    I’ll accept your clarification (which was what I was thinking), but I’ll believe that they will create micro black holes when they show me evidence – I think that there are going to be some big changes in particle physics and cosmology when they turn the LHC up to 14 (TeV – 14 is 3 MORE than 11! [which is one higher than 10]) in a couple of years… (my money is on no Higgs Boson and no dark matter [sane people can hold counter-orthodoxy positions, too – the difference between me and the birthers is that I’ll accept the results either way…{although I’d be really pissed if the Earth was swallowed by a black hole that they created :(}]).

  29. avatar
    Greg April 26, 2011 at 1:16 am #

    Apparently, at CERN, they already have a picture of the Higgs-Boson up:

    http://www.sciencefriday.com/blog/2011/01/higgs-boson-already-found/

  30. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 1:20 am #

    Slartibartfast: I’ll accept your clarification (which was what I was thinking), but I’ll believe that they will create micro black holes when they show me evidence – I think that there are going to be some big changes in particle physics and cosmology when they turn the LHC up to 14 (TeV – 14 is 3 MORE than 11! [which is one higher than 10]) in a couple of years… (my money is on no Higgs Boson and no dark matter [sane people can hold counter-orthodoxy positions, too – the difference between me and the birthers is that I’ll accept the results either way…{although I’d be really pissed if the Earth was swallowed by a black hole that they created }]).

    LOL! Yeah…that would piss me off too…;)

    Hey…was part of your “more than 11!” reference to Spinal Tap? πŸ˜‰

    I’m very much for the science that is being performed at LHC & the location in the US right now…but I’m not beholded to any of the multiple hypotheses out there… I’ll pretty much be excited, whatever comes out of it. I do expect there to be some fascinating results that lead to better understanding of quantum physics…

  31. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 1:20 am #

    gorefan: There were 17578 live births in Hawaii in 1961. So an average of 1464/month.

    Now we need to estimate the total number in the batch that was alphabetized together based on the alphabetical locations of our three data points. I would guess in the neighborhood of 500 (making a batch 1-2 weeks), but I could be wrong for a staggering variety of reasons…

    Soros created Stig in the black hole formed by the Large Hadron Collider.

    Stig was Obama’s younger twin but the grandparents only registered the oldest child on August 8th, then after they returned from Kenya, they registered Stig after putting him up for adoption.

    Stig is a CIA plant.

    There is no Stig Waidelich.

    Take your pick .

    I said before, Doc made up Stig out of whole cloth – he’s been playing us all along. He hired an actor, placed the birth announcement (or, more likely, used his knowledge of birth records to place another [he had to have done President Obama’s*, too… {but not the Nordyke’s – those are the ‘good’ kind}] fraudulent entry into the queue), and registered a birth with the Hawai’i DoH. It’s all a part of his evil plan. Answer me this – How long did he spend in Evil graduate school to get the title ‘Doc’? He also spent over 1 TRILLION times as much as President Obama did to seal his records. What is he hiding?

    *You know, when you’re trying to channel the birther zeitgeist it’s almost impossible to write ‘President Obama’. I bet my theory that reading ‘President Obama’ is like fnords to the birthers is correct – every time they read the words ‘President Obama’ a small piece of them dies…

  32. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 1:22 am #

    Greg:
    Apparently, at CERN, they already have a picture of the Higgs-Boson up:

    http://www.sciencefriday.com/blog/2011/01/higgs-boson-already-found/

    D’oh!

    Well, then I’m probably wrong… I guess I’ll double down on dark matter.

  33. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 1:33 am #

    G: LOL!Yeah…that would piss me off too…;)

    Hey…was part of your “more than 11!” reference to Spinal Tap?

    Of course. I think the main lessons of the movie are that you can always make it a little higher and you should always keep track of your units (I used to try to pound this into my Calculus students’ heads…)

    I’m very much for the science that is being performed at LHC & the location in the US right now…but I’m not beholded to any of the multiple hypotheses out there… I’ll pretty much be excited, whatever comes out of it.I do expect there to be some fascinating results that lead to better understanding of quantum physics…

    I have some maverick ideas about cosmology due to my intuitive belief (based on how time scales with size and the existence of large structures [~300 million light years in diameter] that I don’t believe could have developed so quickly) that the Universe is A LOT older that 10-15 billion years – I’ll be surprised if it turns out to be that young but I’ll accept any scientific evidence available. If I’m wrong, so be it… (and good for the guys at the LHC for figuring it out whatever it turns out to be).

  34. avatar
    Keith April 26, 2011 at 2:16 am #

    Slartibartfast: Doc probably planted Stig (the guy is a complete fiction – he was some actor the Doc hired) just to make his crackpot theory look good.

    Some say his skin has the texture of dolphins or that he once punched a horse to the ground.

    All we know is….he’s called The Stig.

  35. avatar
    Keith April 26, 2011 at 2:19 am #

    Slartibartfast: .{although I’d be really pissed if the Earth was swallowed by a black hole that they created πŸ™ }

    No you wouldn’t.

  36. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 2:37 am #

    Slartibartfast: I have some maverick ideas about cosmology due to my intuitive belief (based on how time scales with size and the existence of large structures [~300 million light years in diameter] that I don’t believe could have developed so quickly) that the Universe is A LOT older that 10-15 billion years – I’ll be surprised if it turns out to be that young but I’ll accept any scientific evidence available. If I’m wrong, so be it… (and good for the guys at the LHC for figuring it out whatever it turns out to be).

    Astronomy is a huge fascination of mine. A much bigger hobby to follow than crazy birtherism. This upcoming decade should be an exciting one for experiments and technologies that help address and challenge ideas of hyperinflation, dark matter, dark energy, etc.

  37. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 3:05 am #

    Slartibartfast: the Universe is A LOT older that 10-15 billion years – I’ll be surprised if it turns out to be that young but I’ll accept any scientific evidence available. If I’m wrong, so be it…

    If it’s not in the bible, it’s not true. Just ask Sarah Palin or Huck.

  38. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 3:06 am #

    Scientist: 5. Everyone Tuchman spoke with said they had not spoken with any investigators associated with Trump.

    Soros paid them.

  39. avatar
    nc1 April 26, 2011 at 4:11 am #

    Greg:
    Nc1,could you please chime in here and rehabilitate your index number theory. I seem to recall you claiming that the 4 digit lower number given to Obama made his birth at a hospital completely impossible.

    We now have a data point that suggests that alphabetical hatching is highly likely.

    You have some great new theory? Or is an apology in order to Dr. C?

    Stig’s number (if confirmed – I could not see it clearly from the video) indicates that birth index number assignemnt is strange, not as straightforward as I thought.

    My theory was slightly different from your description. The registration numebr 10641 did not fit the Date Filed (August 8, 10961) and the statment that local registrars sent data to the central DoH office on a weekly basis.

    It appears that the assumption of weekly processing of birth registrations was a wrong one (thanks to Okubo). Stig’s COLB only proves that data shown on Obama’s COLB is not an impossible combination.

    It still does not prove that number 10641 belongs to Obama.

    It is amazing that no journalist would ask the simplest and the most trivial question: Did the DoH issue a copy of birth certificate to Obama on June 6, 2007 and whether the number 10641 belongs to Obama’s birth registration index.

  40. avatar
    Expelliarmus April 26, 2011 at 4:34 am #

    As the DOH has confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii, and that the original birth certificate is on file along with index data – AND that the COLB displayed on the internet is in fact the normal form used for certifications — what does it matter what the number on the certificate is or whether a certification was issued June 6, 2007?

  41. avatar
    Sean April 26, 2011 at 4:37 am #

    nc1: Stig’s number (if confirmed – I could not see it clearly from the video) indicates that birth index number assignemnt is strange, not as straightforward as I thought.

    My theory was slightly different from your description.The registration numebr 10641 did not fit the Date Filed (August 8, 10961) and the statment that local registrars sent data to the central DoH office on a weekly basis.

    It appears that the assumption of weekly processing of birth registrations was a wrong one (thanks to Okubo). Stig’s COLB only proves that data shown on Obama’s COLB is not an impossible combination.

    It still does not prove that number 10641 belongs to Obama.

    It is amazing that no journalist would ask the simplest and the most trivial question: Did the DoH issue a copy of birth certificate to Obama on June 6, 2007 and whether the number 10641 belongs to Obama’s birth registration index.

    Ah, moving the goalposts again!

  42. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 26, 2011 at 4:55 am #

    It looks like my assessment of the probabilities was a good one…

    nc1: Stig’s number (if confirmed – I could not see it clearly from the video) indicates that birth index number assignemnt is strange, not as straightforward as I thought.

    That’s funny, because it’s pretty much exactly what the Doc’s hypothetical workflow would have predicted – have you considered the possibility that it seems strange to you and seems to behave in the way that we would expect it to because we’re right and you’re wrong?

    My theory was slightly different from your description.The registration numebr 10641 did not fit the Date Filed (August 8, 10961) and the statment that local registrars sent data to the central DoH office on a weekly basis.

    Which makes your theory highly improbable (as opposed to the Doc’s theory which is completely consistent with the new data…)

    It appears that the assumption of weekly processing of birth registrations was a wrong one (thanks to Okubo).

    No evidence supports this conclusion – the data suggests batches of around 1-2 weeks as I said above.

    Stig’s COLB only proves that data shown on Obama’s COLB is not an impossible combination.

    Tell the truth – that hurt a little to say, didn’t it? And it was still a lie – Stig’s COLB showed us that the Doc’s workflow is consistent with a bigger dataset. Doc’s workflow predicted a substantially larger number for Stig than either the Nordyke twins or President Obama (since it was in the ‘W’s). On the other hand, your ‘anything having to do with President Obama is bad’ theory doesn’t give us a prediction of any sort (it just falls into the depths of ignorance with kicking and screaming and gnashing of teeth).

    It still does not prove that number 10641 belongs to Obama.

    It doesn’t matter although it is highly likely that it does.

    It is amazing that no journalist would ask the simplest and the most trivial question: Did the DoH issue a copy of birth certificate to Obama on June 6, 2007 and whether the number 10641 belongs to Obama’s birth registration index.

    If any journalist who worked for me asked a question that inane of the POTUS I would fire them.

  43. avatar
    The Magic M April 26, 2011 at 5:19 am #

    Well, it looks like the birfers will be reduced even more to their last resort meme “everybody’s lying” because soon there will be no more “false facts” or “allusions of possible nefarious events” remaining.

    This will put them in the same league as the other crackpot theories (like “the US are a corporation since 18xx”) which cannot make up enough “credible evidence” for gullible masses to fall for.

    The only thing that appeared to distinguish the birthers from the even more lunatic fringe was their ingenuity at creating “controversy” and making it appear like they actually had some facts (or “reasons to be suspicious”) to build on. However less and less of that still holds water (never did for us, but I’m talking from the perspective of those people who also believe things like “UFOs abducted me and told me Elvis is still alive”).

  44. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 5:22 am #

    Obama will be re-elected. Two words: Donald Trump.

  45. avatar
    Scientist April 26, 2011 at 6:48 am #

    Greg: SoNordyke: 10637Obama: 10641Weidelich: 10920Did I see that he was born after 6?May I suggest that these numbers are in alphabetical order and that the distance between N and O is shorter than the distance between (NO) and W?Have I seen this theory before?http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/02/possible-work-flow-for-hawaiian-vital-records-in-1961/

    The fuss that the birthers made over the numbers is a sad testimony to the poor familiarity of many Americans with basic scientific principles. Essentially, the birthers took a 2-point data set (Obama and Nordyke), drew a line through the 2 points and proclaimed a linear relationship.

  46. avatar
    Scientist April 26, 2011 at 7:03 am #

    The Hawaii DOH says they only had one “long form” request in the last year and it was a male. So, the “Miki Booth’s” friend’s daughter’s thingy apparently was not issued in 2011 as she said it was. “Danae’s” was supposedly issued in Sept 2010, which is also within the past year (unless they meant calendar year) so it is suspect too.

    Just to be clear, I don’t doubt the certificates are authentic; I just think they were issued much longer ago than has been claimed.

  47. avatar
    Greg April 26, 2011 at 8:32 am #

    It still does not prove that number 10641 belongs to Obama.

    What reason is there to doubt the number belongs to Obama?

    All you’re left with is that you don’t like Obama, therefore, every fact about him is suspect.

  48. avatar
    DCH April 26, 2011 at 8:43 am #

    Nc1
    “It still does not prove that number 10641 belongs to Obama. ”

    This meaningless detail Ignores the complete CNN reporting that just PROVED beyond a doubt that B. Obama was indeed born in the State of Hawaii, in the USA, on 8/4/1961.

  49. avatar
    thefarleftView April 26, 2011 at 9:30 am #

    does CNN have “investigators” or dumb “reporters” in Hawaii is a better question.

    This issue has the far left liberal press trying hard to spread more lies about Obama and it doesn’t seem to want to go away.Doesn’t even matter as far more supreme court justices and even Leahy has said NBC requires two US parents to be citizens for Obama to be eligible. And there is no rebuttal from the LEFT DEATHERS to that statement. None. It is in the congressional record.

    More lies from CNN

    First Off: “prima facie”: (pry-mah fay-shah) adj. Latin for “at first look,” or “on its face,” referring to a lawsuit or criminal prosecution in which the evidence before trial is sufficient to prove the case unless there is substantial contradictory evidence presented at trial…- It is fair to say there’s substantial contradictory evidence regarding Obama’s life narrative and birth… Too bad American voters have no “standing” to challenge the 0ne…

    What CNN Failed To Report: CNN showed two different Obama COLB’s. One with creases from Factcheck.org and the redacted COLB with out creases posted at Obama’s FightTheSmears.com.

    The U.S. State Department web site clearly reads; “Please note, some short(abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.”…

    The Birth Announcements: Even if Obama’s COLB is real it does NOT prove a Hawaiian birth. The same type COLB’s could also be issued to children not born in Hawaii, under Hawaii law, then and now. That also would have triggered the “birth” announcements as they were produced from a list sent from the HDOH, not the hospital or the parents/grandparents.

    Researcher Butterdezillion lays down the law regarding the release of vital records: All requests by those authorized by HRS 338-16 through 338-18 to receive either copies or abstracts MUST be fulfilled. (Note the word “SHALL”.) Unless disclosure is forbidden by the laws or rules the request as made must be fulfilled.

    HRS 338-13 says: (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

    Contrary to the claims of the Hawaii Attorney General’s Office, that statute specifically allows photocopies:

    (c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health.

    3. HRS 338-18(a) only forbids disclosures that are not authorized by the rules or by HRS 338-18. HRS 338-18(a) says:

    (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

    4. HRS 338-18b allows those with a direct and tangible interest (including the registrant and his/her relatives, among others) to receive a CERTIFIED COPY OF PUBLIC HEALTH STATISTICS RECORDS. HRS 338-1 defines “public health statistics records” thusly:

    “Public health statistics” includes the registration, preparation, transcription, collection, compilation, and preservation of data pertaining to births, adoptions, legitimations, deaths, fetal deaths, morbidity, marital status, and data incidental thereto.

    And UIPA (HRS 92F-3) defines “government records” thusly:

    “Government record” means information maintained by an agency in written, auditory, visual, electronic, or other physical form. The registration of a birth, in written form, is clearly a “public health statistics record”. A certified copy of that paper document is discloseable to anybody with a direct and tangible interest.

    5. The DOH Administrative Rules distinguish between the standard birth certificate and the abstract of CONTENT from the birth certificate (“abbreviated birth certificate”, now commonly called the short-form or CertificaTION of Live Birth/COLB). Anybody who requests it is authorized to receive a non-certified copy of a COLB, but only those with a direct and tangible interest are allowed to receive a certified copy of either the COLB or the standard birth certificate.

    The rules specifically say that the confidential medical portion of the standard birth certificate will not be released UNLESS SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED.

    “Public Health Regulations”, Chapter 8b, 2.4(B)(d) says:

    (d) Confidential information. Information contained in the section headed “Confidential Information for Medical and Health Use Only” or other similar designation shall not be included on a standard certified copy unless specifically requested by an individual named on the certificate or by a court of competent jurisdiction…. -snip-

    Complete details on Hawaii’s dirty deeds including links to the above info located at: http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com

  50. avatar
    elid April 26, 2011 at 10:10 am #

    thefarleftView:
    does CNN have “investigators” or dumb “reporters” in Hawaii is a better question.

    This issue has the far left liberal press trying hard to spread more lies about Obama and it doesn’t seem to want to go away.Doesn’t even matter as far more supreme court justices and even Leahy has said NBC requires two US parents to be citizens for Obama to be eligible. And there is no rebuttal from the LEFT DEATHERS to that statement. None. It is in the congressional record.

    More lies from CNN

    First Off: “prima facie”: (pry-mah fay-shah) adj. Latin for “at first look,” or “on its face,” referring to a lawsuit or criminal prosecution in which the evidence before trial is sufficient to prove the case unless there is substantial contradictory evidence presented at trial…- It is fair to say there’s substantial contradictory evidence regarding Obama’s life narrative and birth… Too bad American voters have no “standing” to challenge the 0ne…

    What CNN Failed To Report: CNN showed two different Obama COLB’s. One with creases from Factcheck.org and the redacted COLB with out creases posted at Obama’s FightTheSmears.com.

    The U.S. State Department web site clearly reads; “Please note, some short(abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.”…

    The Birth Announcements: Even if Obama’s COLB is real it does NOT prove a Hawaiian birth. The same type COLB’s could also be issued to children not born in Hawaii, under Hawaii law, then and now. That also would have triggered the “birth” announcements as they were produced from a list sent from the HDOH, not the hospital or the parents/grandparents.

    Researcher Butterdezillion lays down the law regarding the release of vital records: All requests by those authorized by HRS 338-16 through 338-18 to receive either copies or abstracts MUST be fulfilled. (Note the word “SHALL”.) Unless disclosure is forbidden by the laws or rules the request as made must be fulfilled.

    HRS 338-13 says: (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.

    Contrary to the claims of the Hawaii Attorney General’s Office, that statute specifically allows photocopies:

    (c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health.

    3. HRS 338-18(a) only forbids disclosures that are not authorized by the rules or by HRS 338-18. HRS 338-18(a) says:

    (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

    4. HRS 338-18b allows those with a direct and tangible interest (including the registrant and his/her relatives, among others) to receive a CERTIFIED COPY OF PUBLIC HEALTH STATISTICS RECORDS. HRS 338-1 defines “public health statistics records” thusly:

    “Public health statistics” includes the registration, preparation, transcription, collection, compilation, and preservation of data pertaining to births, adoptions, legitimations, deaths, fetal deaths, morbidity, marital status, and data incidental thereto.

    And UIPA (HRS 92F-3) defines “government records” thusly:

    “Government record” means information maintained by an agency in written, auditory, visual, electronic, or other physical form. The registration of a birth, in written form, is clearly a “public health statistics record”. A certified copy of that paper document is discloseable to anybody with a direct and tangible interest.

    5. The DOH Administrative Rules distinguish between the standard birth certificate and the abstract of CONTENT from the birth certificate (“abbreviated birth certificate”, now commonly called the short-form or CertificaTION of Live Birth/COLB). Anybody who requests it is authorized to receive a non-certified copy of a COLB, but only those with a direct and tangible interest are allowed to receive a certified copy of either the COLB or the standard birth certificate.

    The rules specifically say that the confidential medical portion of the standard birth certificate will not be released UNLESS SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED.

    “Public Health Regulations”, Chapter 8b, 2.4(B)(d) says:

    (d) Confidential information. Information contained in the section headed “Confidential Information for Medical and Health Use Only” or other similar designation shall not be included on a standard certified copy unless specifically requested by an individual named on the certificate or by a court of competent jurisdiction…. -snip-

    Complete details on Hawaii’s dirty deeds including links to the above info located at: http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com

    Lies from beginning to end, and very clumsy ones. Aren’t you ashamed of yourself?

  51. avatar
    y_p_w April 26, 2011 at 10:19 am #

    thefarleftView:
    The U.S. State Department web site clearly reads; “Please note, some short(abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.”…

    Some, being the key word here. Dr C has gone into this many times. Apparently one reason is because Texas had some massive fraud in the 80s/90s and the State Dept wants to see if it’s a suspect midwife. California had a rather insecure document and jurisdictions in California haven’t issued abstracts in a decade.

    I haven’t heard reports of people having their Hawaii COLBs rejected for passport purposes. That wouldn’t mean that some municipal file clerk (or USPS employee) working passport acceptance hasn’t mistakenly rejected one. The fact is that in many states, a child born now wouldn’t be able to get anything **but** one of these abstract forms. The State Dept isn’t going to keep a whole category of citizens from getting passports on that basis alone.

  52. avatar
    ellen April 26, 2011 at 10:26 am #

    I’d appreciate some help over at:

    http://patriotupdate.com/6011/wh-reporters-ask-about-the-birth-certificate/comment-page-2#comment-105169

    Oh, and by the way, elid, the Certification of Live Birth is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department. Some short forms may not be acceptable, but it IS accepted.

    And, elid, Hawaii does not now and did not in 1961 allow a birth document of any kind to be issued with the words “Place of birth: Honolulu” unless there was proof that the child was actually born in Honolulu. And, when there was a claim of a birth outside of a hospital, Hawaii insisted on witness statements.

    And, elid, IF a child were born in a foreign country, then she or he would need either a US visa on a foreign passport or to be entered on the mother’s US passport to be taken to the USA. The application for either of them would still exist–and yet it has not been found.

    This absence, plus the presence of the official birth certificate of Hawaii, plus the three confirmations by Republican officials, plus the notices in the newspapers. Also, Obama’s Kenyan grandmother NEVER said that he was born in Kenya. She said in the taped interview that he was born in Hawaii, and she said in another interview that the first that her family in Kenya had heard of Obama’s birth was in a letter FROM HAWAII.

  53. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 10:27 am #

    nc1: It is amazing that no journalist would ask the simplest and the most trivial question: Did the DoH issue a copy of birth certificate to Obama on June 6, 2007 and whether the number 10641 belongs to Obama’s birth registration index.

    You keep repeating this LIE. This journalist’s conversation with Fukino already confirme d the 2007 COLB. You’ve been told this repeatedly, so stop lying:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42519951/ns/politics-more_politics

    Her second point — one she made repeatedly in the interview — is that the shorter, computer generated “certification of live birth” that was obtained by the Obama campaign in 2007 and has since been publicly released is the standard document that anybody requesting their birth certificate from the state of Hawaii would receive from the health department.

    The document was distributed to the Obama campaign in 2007 after Obama, at the request of a campaign official, personally signed a Hawaii birth certificate request form downloaded on the Internet, according to a former campaign official who asked for anonymity. (Obama was “testy” when asked to sign the form but did so anyway to put the issue to rest, the former campaign official said. The White House has dismissed all questions about the president’s birth as “fictional nonsense.”)
    The certification that the campaign received back —which shows that Obama was born in Honolulu at 7:24 p.m. on Aug. 4, 1961 — was based on the content of the original document in state files, Fukino said.

    “What he got, everybody got,” said Fukino. “He put out exactly what everybody gets when they ask for a birth certificate.”

  54. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 10:35 am #

    thefarleftView: does CNN have “investigators” or dumb “reporters” in Hawaii is a better question…*squawk*, *squawk*, *squawk*

    Wow, what a worthless and delusional post. Practically EVERY thing you said was either utterly wrong or a blatent LIE. You are sad and pathetic.

    Anyone who wants to learn the truth can look up any of your BS points here and at any official source and see that you’ve made up utter nonsense and repeated lies that have been debunked repeatedly and endlessly.

    Too bad reality doesn’t match with any of your nonsense. Sucks to be you.

  55. avatar
    Keith April 26, 2011 at 10:49 am #

    If anybody wants to burn their eyeballs out with a red hot poker, you could go over to Above Top Secret: Hawaiian Senator said Obama not releasing long-form BC to hide identity or citizenship of his father and have a read.

    If you want to beat your head against a wall for awhile, get an account and join in.

    You have been warned.

  56. avatar
    Suranis April 26, 2011 at 10:50 am #

    ellen: I’d appreciate some help over at:

    http://patriotupdate.com/6011/wh-reporters-ask-about-the-birth-certificate/comment-page-2#comment-105169

    Sorry Ellen. I took one look at that place and I recognized a lost cause when i saw it. Anyplace that has comments about the president not needing a birth cert but a dog license (that was the top comment) is a nest of demons. You don’t need a debunker in a site like that, you need an exorcist. They aren’t even trying to argue with you and they certainly are not even reading what you are saying. I might go back later but I’d need to charge up my spiritual batteries with a lot of prayer first to defend myself. I’d almost advise you to leave it.

    And if you people are disturbed by the religious overtones of what I said, well take a look yourself and see what you think of a site like that. How would you defend your mind from the pure concentrated hatred from the people there?

  57. avatar
    SluggoJD April 26, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    I debunked Jorge Baro over a year ago.

    http://top10badguys.blogspot.com/2010/01/jorge-l-baro.html

    JD

  58. avatar
    DCH April 26, 2011 at 11:17 am #

    CNN pretty much destroyed a long list of birther Hawaii DoH delusions in one swipe.

    Trump revealed the extent of the flimsy delusions and they could not resist.

    Sorry birthers you did not have a good day yesterday. The Hawaii DoH “foxholes” have been overrun and there are nothing but birther-bits leftover. Not a single birther assertion was left standing after CNN.

    Getting the COLB of the guy born a day after Obama was a masterful.
    You cannot not explain that away. Reality bites if you are a birther.

    So farLeft what are you going to show to a judge now?

  59. avatar
    Majority Will April 26, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    “Researcher Butterdezillion lays down the law regarding the release of vital records . . .”

    That would be funny if it wasn’t so darn pathetic.

    Does the title of “researcher” also include a lonely, paranoid, holier-than-thou housewife and delusional bigot who got caught lying about herself in a grand and sad attempt to appear like some sort of authority?

    [Personal information deleted. Doc.] “Butterdezillion” [Personal information deleted. Doc.] might be an authority on heavily soiled diapers and quoting from other deranged birther blogs.

  60. avatar
    Thrifty April 26, 2011 at 11:21 am #

    thefarleftView: This issue has the far left liberal press trying hard to spread more lies about Obama and it doesn’t seem to want to go away.Doesn’t even matter as far more supreme court justices and even Leahy has said NBC requires two US parents to be citizens for Obama to be eligible. And there is no rebuttal from the LEFT DEATHERS to that statement. None. It is in the congressional record.

    Which Supreme Court Justices? If so, why was Obama sworn in if he was ineligible based on his parentage?

  61. avatar
    Majority Will April 26, 2011 at 11:27 am #

    DCH:
    CNN pretty much destroyed a long list of birther Hawaii DoH delusions in one swipe.

    Trump revealed the extent of the flimsy delusions and they could not resist.

    Sorry birthers you did not have a good day yesterday.The Hawaii DoH “foxholes” have been overrun and there are nothing but birther-bits leftover.Not a single birther assertion was left standing after CNN.

    Getting the COLB of the guy born a day after Obama was a masterful.
    You cannot not explain that away.Reality bites if you are a birther.

    So farLeft what are you going to show to a judge now?

    I am particularly enjoying how Trump (who has almost evenly contributed money to Democrats and Republicans) is destroying the Trump brand. The damage is now permanent.

    Birther stupidity will prove to be extremely toxic to his image and his business and I thought he said he was smart?

    Betting on Corsi and Farah shows why Donnie Combover could bankrupt a casino.

  62. avatar
    nc1 April 26, 2011 at 11:33 am #

    DCH:
    Nc1
    “It still does not prove that number 10641 belongs to Obama. ”

    This meaningless detail Ignores the complete CNN reporting that just PROVED beyond a doubt that B. Obama was indeed born in the State of Hawaii, in the USA, on 8/4/1961.

    How did they prove it? By showing somebody else’s birth certificate? They proved that Stig was born in Hawaii.

    I am sure that CNN has office in Chicago – they could send a reporter to Obama’s campaign headquarters and ask to see the COLB. How difficult is that?

  63. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 11:33 am #

    Majority Will: Betting on Corsi and Farah shows why Donnie Combover could bankrupt a casino.

    I want to see the birth certificate for that dead badger on his head.

  64. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 11:41 am #

    Suranis: Sorry Ellen. I took one look at that place and I recognized a lost cause when i saw it. Anyplace that has comments about the president not needing a birth cert but a dog license (that was the top comment) is a nest of demons. You don’t need a debunker in a site like that, you need an exorcist. They aren’t even trying to argue with you and they certainly are not even reading what you are saying. I might go back later but I’d need to charge up my spiritual batteries with a lot of prayer first to defend myself. I’d almost advise you to leave it.And if you people are disturbed by the religious overtones of what I said, well take a look yourself and see what you think of a site like that. How would you defend your mind from the pure concentrated hatred from the people there?

    I agree. Sites like that are beyond reach of reason or sanity. They are just ODS cesspools and a lost cause. Such sites exist for the bigots who need their confirmation bias fed. They have no interest in facts or reality.

  65. avatar
    Suranis April 26, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    nc1: I am sure that CNN has office in Chicago – they could send a reporter to Obama’s campaign headquarters and ask to see the COLB. How difficult is that?

    They did.

  66. avatar
    Greg April 26, 2011 at 11:42 am #

    How did they prove it? By showing somebody else’s birth certificate? They proved that Stig was born in Hawaii.

    What RATIONAL reason do you have to doubt it now?

    Be honest. You don’t like Obama and therefore, he must be hiding something.

    If the former head of the Department of Health said she had seen Tim Pawlenty’s birth certificate and had absolutely no doubts that it was genuine and that he had been born in Minnesota would you require more?

  67. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 11:43 am #

    DCH: Getting the COLB of the guy born a day after Obama was a masterful.
    You cannot not explain that away. Reality bites if you are a birther.

    That truly was masterful proof!

    Can’t wait to see AC’s part 2 of the investigation at 10pm tonight!

  68. avatar
    nc1 April 26, 2011 at 11:47 am #

    Expelliarmus:
    As the DOH has confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii, and that the original birth certificate is on file along with index data – AND that the COLB displayed on the internet is in fact the normal form used for certifications — what does it matter what the number on the certificate is or whether a certification was issued June 6, 2007?

    In a recent interview Dr. Fukino said that the original birth certificate on file is half handwritten and few months earlier Abercrombie said that the record of Obama’s birth in Hawaii is “actually written”.

    If Obama’s original birth certificate is not the Nordyke type it would prove that the official birthplace story is a lie.

    His COLB was first presented to the public with several missing features – registration number was covered and the bottom fold was missing. The state seal is not obvious as in other certificates shown on the web.

    The easiest method of confirming whether the COLB is a valid document is to ask DoH for its confirmation by using specific data so that there is no wiggle room for incorrect understanding of what is being verified. It is a fact that DoH refused to confirm that they issued this document to Obama on June 6, 2007.

    I have sent questions to Anderson Cooper on two occasions and if they read them they are aware of these questions. Good thing about their report is that they confirmed how easy would it be for Obama to show his own birth certificate to a main stream media outlet – it costs only $7 to get COLB.

  69. avatar
    Majority Will April 26, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    misha: I want to see the birth certificate for that dead badger on his head.

    The fact that he thinks it looks normal has been a tip off of his mental instability for years now.

    As Trump falls, he needs to take Farah down with him.

  70. avatar
    richCares April 26, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    being totally irrantional appears to be nc1’s most prevalent trait, what a poor pathetic life she lives.
    .
    nc1 says “would it be for Obama to show his own birth certificate to a main stream media outlet – it costs only $7 to get COLB.\”
    .
    it’s still at his Chicago Office, go to see it with your specialist if you dare, though we know birthers will never look for proof as they know it will hurt their position.

  71. avatar
    nc1 April 26, 2011 at 12:03 pm #

    Greg: What RATIONAL reason do you have to doubt it now?

    Be honest. You don’t like Obama and therefore, he must be hiding something.

    If the former head of the Department of Health said she had seen Tim Pawlenty’s birth certificate and had absolutely no doubts that it was genuine and that he had been born in Minnesota would you require more?

    I told you how Dr. Fukino and gov. Abercrombie described the record of Obama’s birth in Hawaii. It indicates a different document than the long form (Nordyke type).

    If he was born at the Kapiolani – there would be no such statements from Fukino and Abercrombie.

    If Tim Pawlenty or some other politician published an image on the web indicating that document was not a legitimate one, it would require asking more questions about its verification.

    Few years ago CIA director and the Secretary of State boldly claimed that US government knew where the WMDs in Iraq were. We know how that story turned out.

    There is no need to rely on a testimony of a politician if their claim could be easily verified.

  72. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 12:04 pm #

    nc1: Good thing about their report is that they confirmed how easy would it be for Obama to show his own birth certificate to a main stream media outlet

    His BC is still at his campaign HQ. Go there and look at it; they will be happy to show it to you.

    566 W. Lake Street (just off the green and pink lines on the L)
    Lower level
    Chicago, IL 60661
    Phone: 312-474-1727

    Let us know what you find out.

  73. avatar
    Ellen April 26, 2011 at 12:08 pm #

    Normally when a child is born in a foreign country, these two facts are present. There is either a US visa on a foreign passport or the child is entered on the mother’s US passport. AND, there is no birth certificate in a US State (or in some cases, US city or county).

    The exact reverse happened with Obama. There is NO 1961 US visa or he being entered on his mother’s US passport (which would surely have been found by now, unless the US State Department is part of the conspiracy both now and during the Bush Administration). And there IS an official birth certificate from Hawaii which lists Obama’s place of birth as Honolulu.

    For the latter not to be true (1) THREE Republican officials in Hawaii would have to be lying; AND (2) The officials in Hawaii in 1961 would have had to have been fooled by a lie that Obama was born in Hawaii. But we know that (2) would have been virtually impossible because the rules in Hawaii called for a signed witness statement whenever there was a claim of a birth outside of Hawaii.

  74. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 12:11 pm #

    nc1: The easiest method of confirming whether the COLB is a valid document is to ask DoH for its confirmation

    Hawaii Department of Health
    (808) 586-4533.

    1250 Punchbowl Street
    Honolulu, HI 96813

    Let us know what you find out.

  75. avatar
    Majority Will April 26, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    “Few years ago CIA director and the Secretary of State boldly claimed that US government knew where the WMDs in Iraq were. We know how that story turned out.”

    This brain damaged birther idiot thinks she can make a convincing argument using a false equivalence propped up by her hatred and paranoia to justify her insanity.

    What a moron.

  76. avatar
    nc1 April 26, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    Ellen:
    Normally when a child is born in a foreign country, these two facts are present. There is either a US visa on a foreign passport or the child is entered on the mother’s US passport. AND, there is no birth certificate in a US State (or in some cases, US city or county).

    The exact reverse happened with Obama. There is NO 1961 US visaor he being entered on his mother’s US passport (which would surely have been found by now, unless the US State Department is part of the conspiracy both now and during the Bush Administration). And there IS an official birth certificate from Hawaii which lists Obama’s place of birth as Honolulu.

    For the latter not to be true (1) THREE Republican officials in Hawaii would have to be lying; AND(2) The officials in Hawaii in 1961 would have had to have been fooled by a lie that Obama was born in Hawaii. But we know that (2) would have been virtually impossible because the rules in Hawaii called for a signed witness statement whenever there was a claim of a birth outside of Hawaii.

    If there was no conspiracy the government would have released passport information for Obama’s mother. Dr.C asked for this information 2 years ago.

    I am sure we’ll see the original birth certificate for Obama any day now, right? What is there to hide? It is a trivial document that should reveal his birth at the Kapiolani Hospital.

  77. avatar
    Scientist April 26, 2011 at 12:16 pm #

    nc1: How did they prove it? By showing somebody else’s birth certificate? They proved that Stig was born in Hawaii

    So you admit that a COLB is a birth certificate and that a Hawaiian COLB proves birth in Hawaii. After all if it’s proof for stig, it’s proof for Barack.

  78. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 12:21 pm #

    nc1: I am sure we’ll see the original birth certificate for Obama any day now, right? What is there to hide? It is a trivial document that should reveal his birth at the Kapiolani Hospital.

    No need. We’ve seen the ONLY official HI document, his COLB. That answers EVERY relevant part of info in regards to NBC. Nothing else is relevant. End of Story.

  79. avatar
    Thrifty April 26, 2011 at 12:24 pm #

    nc1: I told you how Dr. Fukino and gov. Abercrombie described the record of Obama’s birth in Hawaii. It indicates a different document than the long form (Nordyke type).

    No, it’s exactly the same. You just did what conspiracy theorists do; make word salad by pretending clear statements mean something else. Quit asking the same questions and pretending they haven’t been answered.

    “Written down” does not mean “handwritten”. Print out this page. Then you have something written down.

    “Half hand written” does not mean that 50% of the words are hand written. It’s an obvious figurative statement where “half” means “partially”. Like in that Jewel song where she says “I’m half-alive but I feel mostly dead”.

    Or, veering away from the world of art, if someone says “I was halfway to work when the engine on my car shut down and I couldn’t get it started up and I had to wait 3 hours for a tow.”, that means that he was PARTIALLY to work, not that he was, say, 9 miles along on an 18 mile trip.

    Are you seriously that dense that you don’t understand figurative language and colloquialism? Or do you understand and are just deliberately lying?

  80. avatar
    nemocapn April 26, 2011 at 12:26 pm #

    There’s a video of Eliot Spitzer interviewing Gary Tuchman of CNN. The transcript is here:
    http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=UserDisplayFullDocument&orgId=574&topicId=100007219&docId=l:1405433669&isRss=true

    In answer to why Obama doesn’t release the birth certificate:

    “Well, the reason he doesn’t, according to the White House, in part just because, if this was the original birth certificate and held it up to my camera, there would be a segment of our viewership and other people who would say that’s not the real, original birth certificate. The Obama administration believes that many doubters will still doubt.”

    In a follow-up question Tuchman said:
    “According to Hawaii health department, the short version which Barack Obama has made public is certified, legal for all uses. The original version, which is in the vault, is no longer certified for legal uses. So, therefore there’s no reason for Hawaiian to get the original vault form. The vault form had a little more information. It has the name of the hospital. It has your parents’ ages. It says if you were born in a plantation or a farm, some old fashioned information. But it’s not needed information anymore. The short version which cost 7 bucks is the official version in the state of Hawaii. It’s the version that Barack Obama has shown to the world.”

  81. avatar
    Thrifty April 26, 2011 at 12:28 pm #

    nc1: I am sure we’ll see the original birth certificate for Obama any day now, right? What is there to hide? It is a trivial document that should reveal his birth at the Kapiolani Hospital.

    Until you pick it apart like a Lego playset and denounce it as a forgery. Either that or you’ll shift the goalposts again, saying that his elementary school, high school, Occidential College, Columbia University, or whatever records are probably hiding something and demand to see that too. The original BC would have no value to you birthers, because your world view is not defined by what is on the table, but rather by what’s off the table. And there is always something off the table.

  82. avatar
    Reality Check April 26, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    Doc

    You picked a heck of a time to go on vacation. πŸ˜‰

  83. avatar
    Thrifty April 26, 2011 at 12:35 pm #

    Scientist: So you admit that a COLB is a birth certificate and that a Hawaiian COLB proves birth in Hawaii. After all if it’s proof for stig, it’s proof for Barack.

    Are you positive? What color is Stig? We have to make sure he’s not one of those scary brown people before we make any determinations as to whether a COLB is sufficient.

  84. avatar
    Joey April 26, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    It sure was good to hear and see Dr. Chiyome Fukino say in her own words that Barack Obama’s birth certificate is authentic and that she has personally seen it with her own eyes and that it remains on file. The video of her statement is much more powerful than just reading the old press releases.

  85. avatar
    Joey April 26, 2011 at 12:45 pm #

    nc1: If there was no conspiracy the government would have released passport information for Obama’s mother.Dr.C asked for this information 2 years ago.

    I am sure we’ll see the original birth certificate for Obama any day now, right?What is there to hide?It is a trivial document that should reveal his birth at the Kapiolani Hospital.

    A congressional subpoena for Obama’s original birth records could be sought by any Republican controlled committee of the House of Representatives. It speaks volumes that no Republican committee chairperson has shown even the slightest interest in Obama’s birth records since the Republicans regained control of the House.
    The Constitution does not require that a president be born in a hospital. Since 2008, proof that President Obama was born at 7:24 p.m. on August 4, 1961 in the City of Honolulu, in the County of Honolulu, on the Island of Hawaii, in the state of Hawaii has been available on the internet for anyone on the planet with access to a computer to see.

  86. avatar
    The Magic M April 26, 2011 at 12:47 pm #

    > First Off: “prima facie”: (pry-mah fay-shah)

    That would be the English pronounciation; the original Latin would rather be pronounced “pree-mah fuh-kee-aye”.

    > It is fair to say there’s substantial contradictory evidence regarding Obama’s life narrative and birth…

    That’s the problem with you birthers, you have no idea what “evidence” means. Let alone “substantial evidence”.
    There is no evidence Obama was not born in Hawaii. There is no evidence Obama was not born in Kapiolani. Let alone “substantial evidence”.

    All you birfers have are hearsay statements (some Kenyan member of parliament, some Tanzanian newspaper) of people who would not even repeat these statements in court (otherwise I’m sure your birfer “lawyers” would have invited them over by now).

    All you birfers have are your own crackpot re-interpretations of the Constitution that no respectable expert will agree with (de Vattel definition of NBC).

    All you birfers have are “affidavits” from people, including convicted forgers, who cite
    anonymous sources.

    All you birfers have are self-proclaimed internet “experts” with no expertise in the field they are claiming to proffer an opinion in.

    All you birfers have are wild allegations, allegedly “missing confirmations”, lies and distortions of the truth.

    Not one of your “facts” would hold up in court, as evidenced by the clean sweep of, where is it now, 83:0?, that you got in court so far.

    So, pray, tell me, where is your “substantial contradictory evidence regarding Obama’s life narrative and birth”? Is it hiding behind that Perpetuum Mobile over there, right next to Elvis?

  87. avatar
    The Magic M April 26, 2011 at 12:52 pm #

    > Few years ago CIA director and the Secretary of State boldly claimed that US government knew where the WMDs in Iraq were. We know how that story turned out.

    So if my neighbour can’t spell and Einstein couldn’t spell, my neighbour must be a physics genius, too?

    > There is no need to rely on a testimony of a politician if their claim could be easily verified.

    Dr Fukino was a “politician”?

  88. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett April 26, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    nc1:
    I have sent questions to Anderson Cooper on two occasions and if they read them they are aware of these questions.

    I hear CNN is using recycled email printouts as toilet paper to save money.

  89. avatar
    roadburner April 26, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    Thrifty: Are you positive? What color is Stig? We have to make sure he’s not one of those scary brown people before we make any determinations as to whether a COLB is sufficient.

    er, don´t you mean `scarey brown, communist, america hating people with moooslim sounding names´

    well, that´s the general concensus on a lot of birfoon sites i´ve seen

  90. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    nc1: I have sent questions to Anderson Cooper on two occasions and if they read them they are aware of these questions.

    J. Edward Tremlett: I hear CNN is using recycled email printouts as toilet paper to save money.

    Zing.

  91. avatar
    thefarleftView April 26, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

    more and more Americans convinced OBAMA not born here
    real question should be
    Is OBAMA a NBC ???

    USA TODAY poll, only 38% of Americans say Obama definitely was born in the USA, and 18% say he probably was. Fifteen percent say he probably was born in another country, and 9% say he definitely was born elsewhere.
    USA TODAY/Gallup Poll
    Views already are polarized about President Obama and some major Republican candidates for 2012.

    Source: USA TODAY/Gallup Poll of 1,013 adults. April 20-23. Margin of error +/-4 percentage points.
    Republicans are inclined to say the president was born abroad by 43%-35%.

  92. avatar
    Thrifty April 26, 2011 at 1:15 pm #

    thefarleftView: USA TODAY poll, only 38% of Americans say Obama definitely was born in the USA, and 18% say he probably was. Fifteen percent say he probably was born in another country, and 9% say he definitely was born elsewhere.
    USA TODAY/Gallup Poll
    Views already are polarized about President Obama and some major Republican candidates for 2012.

    Link or GTFO.

  93. avatar
    Ellen April 26, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    Re: “If there was no conspiracy the government would have released passport information for Obama’s mother. Dr.C asked for this information 2 years ago.’

    In addition to Obama being entered on his mother’s passport in his mother’s passport file, there would also have been the application to enter him on his mother’s passport, and that application would exist in the files of applications for changes to passports in 1961 in Kenya or in any other country. The same would hold for an application for a US visa. In addition to the visa stamp itself, there is the application for the visa.

    And yet neither of them have been found for Obama. The allegations that he was born in Kenya or not in Hawaii existed for a year or more (much more) before the election in 2008, and during that time the Bush Administration was in charge of the US State Department and the CIA. They had the time and the power to check on applications for visas and applications for changes to passports in 1961. Yet nothing was found.

    If they had found such a document they could have leaked it to the press or to the McCain campaign. Or they could have used it when the officials in Hawaii stated that Obama was born in Hawaii–but they did nothing. No US visa or change to his mother’s passport and no application to get a US visa or to change his mother’s passport was found.

  94. avatar
    Majority Will April 26, 2011 at 1:23 pm #

    thefarleftView:
    more and more Americans convinced OBAMA not born here
    real question should be
    Is OBAMA a NBC ???

    USA TODAY poll, only 38% of Americans say Obama definitely was born in the USA, and 18% say he probably was. Fifteen percent say he probably was born in another country, and 9% say he definitely was born elsewhere.
    USA TODAY/Gallup Poll
    Views already are polarized about President Obama and some major Republican candidates for 2012.

    Source: USA TODAY/Gallup Poll of 1,013 adults. April 20-23. Margin of error +/-4 percentage points.
    Republicans are inclined to say the president was born abroad by 43%-35%.

    Thanks to Trump the Egomaniac going forward there will be far fewer birther idiots aside from a handful of the genuinely mentally ill bigots.

    He has just destroyed his own brand and his credibility was already in doubt.

    “Fifteen percent say he probably was born in another country, and 9% say he definitely was born elsewhere.” – Many of those have no idea or care what that means with regards to Presidential eligibility because many of them aren’t birther bigots who are frightened to death of their own shadows.

    Here are some special photos just for you and your Stormfront “circle” of lovers:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/25/photostream-behind-scenes-early-april

  95. avatar
    Judge Mental April 26, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    I’m not at all sure it’s accurate for some of us birther bashers to imply, perhaps in some cases unintentionally, that the post 2001 COLB is the only form of certified Hawaian birth certificate that can be used for legal purposes.

    There will be thousands of Hawaians who still have the certified bc’s issued to their family shortly after their birth (whenever that happened to be, many of which would have been pre 2001) and thousands more who applied for, received and still have “certified copies” in the various assorted formats these may have taken on over the decades.

    All of these are surely also still perfectly legal for all uses that a post 2001 format COLB is good for, no?

  96. avatar
    DCH April 26, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    NC1
    “How did they prove it? By showing somebody else’s birth certificate? They proved that Stig was born in Hawaii.”

    Uh, the State of Hawaii confirmed the facts years ago.
    The Stig was simply an example of how someone born on the same week has a record that looks just like the Obama COLB. Something birthers NEVER bothered to do BEFORE losing 90 court cases. Nothing you’vesaid here has held up.

    CNN did it one day! They totally dismantled your delusion, you have to let go. Trump killed the birthers by drawing the attention of CNN.

    “I am sure we’ll see the original birth certificate for Obama any day now, right? What is there to hide? It is a trivial document that should reveal his birth at the Kapiolani Hospital.”

    Well lets see, a bunch of bigots question his birth circumstances and ignore all the evidence in plain sight. You insult the memory of his mother and father. Yeah, that always works.

    Why would he care what you think?

  97. avatar
    Robert Clark April 26, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    ellen:
    I’d appreciate some help over at:

    http://patriotupdate.com/6011/wh-reporters-ask-about-the-birth-certificate/comment-page-2#comment-105169

    It is interesting that in the ONE case that a reporter specifically asked for the original long form birth certificate the press secretary change the topic to the short form and wouldn’t address the question.
    In the second example referenced in that article, the reporter didn’t really ask for the long form birth certificate.
    A reporter finally has to ask the obvious question at these press meetings: is there any reason why the President will not release his original long form birth certificate?

    Bob

  98. avatar
    Joey April 26, 2011 at 1:44 pm #

    Robert Clark: It is interesting that in the ONE case that a reporter specifically asked for the original long form birth certificate the press secretary change the topic to the short form and wouldn’t address the question.In the second example referenced in that article, the reporter didn’t really ask for the long form birth certificate.A reporter finally has to ask the obvious question at these press meetings: is there any reason why the President will not release his original long form birth certificate?

    Bob

    I think that the answer is obvious. The official Hawaii birth certificate is the Certification of Live Birth and it contains all the information that is necessary to establish Article II, Section 1 eligibility that can be found on a birth certificate. Barack Obama’s Certification of Live Birth has been available to see since 2008.
    There is no additional information on a long form that is required to establish constitutional eligibility.

  99. avatar
    Sherry Laminack April 26, 2011 at 1:47 pm #

    Right On, Just the information I was looking for, thanks for your help. Backlinks

  100. avatar
    DCH April 26, 2011 at 1:49 pm #

    It must suck to be a birther today.

  101. avatar
    Robert Clark April 26, 2011 at 1:50 pm #

    nemocapn:
    There’s a video of Eliot Spitzer interviewing Gary Tuchman of CNN.The transcript is here:
    http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=UserDisplayFullDocument&orgId=574&topicId=100007219&docId=l:1405433669&isRss=true

    In answer to why Obama doesn’t release the birth certificate:

    “Well, the reason he doesn’t, according to the White House, in part just because, if this was the original birth certificate and held it up to my camera, there would be a segment of our viewership and other people who would say that’s not the real, original birth certificate. The Obama administration believes that many doubters will still doubt.”

    Tuchman doesn’t work for the White House. He’s another reporter. So you have a reporter asking another reporter.
    Will any reporter ever ask anyone at the White House the obvious question of why won’t the President release his long form birth certificate?

    Bob

  102. avatar
    Robert Clark April 26, 2011 at 1:59 pm #

    Joey: I think that the answer is obvious. The official Hawaii birth certificate is the Certification of Live Birth and it contains all the information that is necessary to establish Article II, Section 1 eligibility that can be found on a birth certificate. Barack Obama’s Certification of Live Birth has been available to see since 2008.
    There is no additional information on a long form that is required to establish constitutional eligibility.

    Many Americans still doubt that. The issue won’t go away until he releases it.

    Bob

  103. avatar
    Joey April 26, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    Robert Clark: Tuchman doesn’t work for the White House. He’s another reporter. So you have a reporter asking another reporter.Will any reporter ever ask anyone at the White House the obvious question of why won’t the President release his long form birth certificate?

    Bob

    The question about why won’t the president release his long form birth certificate was asked of White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs by Lester Kingsolving of World Net Daily back in 2009.
    http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=99342
    The answer provided by Gibbs was that the President’s birth certificate issued by the state of Hawaii is available on the internet.

  104. avatar
    richCares April 26, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    “Many Americans still doubt that.”
    correction:
    Many Anti-Americans still doubt that.

  105. avatar
    y_p_w April 26, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    Thrifty:

    “Half hand written” does not mean that 50% of the words are hand written.It’s an obvious figurative statement where “half” means “partially”.Like in that Jewel song where she says “I’m half-alive but I feel mostly dead”.

    Well – I read the msnbc article, and I don’t recall it was a direct quote. It was more of a paraphrase by the author for brevity.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42519951/ns/politics-more_politics/

    “Before she would do so, Fukino said, she wanted to inspect the files — and did so, taking with her the state official in charge of vital records. She found the original birth record, properly numbered, half typed and half handwritten, and signed by the doctor who delivered Obama, located in the files. She then put out a public statement asserting to the document’s validity. She later put out another public statement in July 2009 — after reviewing the original birth record a second time.”

    Also – there’s nothing about handwritten parts that would mean it’s not the same form as we’ve seen for the Nordyke twins. I don’t think there’s any law that says that the form had to be exclusively handwritten or exclusively typed. I could see a scenario where a hospital employee filled in as much information as possible, but left parts blank to be filled in later. I could imagine Mr. and Mrs. Obama might not have even picked out a name until a hospital employee came to them with the form partially filled out.

    The current California form says “USE BLACK INK ONLY”. Most versions are typed except for signatures. Some are mostly filled in with a computer program with the form as a background template. It could be conceivable that they leave certain fields blank, such as the non-attendant certifier and fill that in later (if the attendant can’t be tracked down to sign it).

  106. avatar
    Joey April 26, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    Robert Clark: Many Americans still doubt that. The issue won’t go away until he releases it.

    Bob

    I don’t think that many people expect the issue to go away. Both Republicans and Democrats will continue to use the issue to the advantage of their own respective political ideology.

  107. avatar
    Thrifty April 26, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    Robert Clark: Tuchman doesn’t work for the White House. He’s another reporter. So you have a reporter asking another reporter.
    Will any reporter ever ask anyone at the White House the obvious question of why won’t the President release his long form birth certificate?

    Didn’t the Hawaii state AG or one of his underlings point out that Obama can’t, because the long form is the property of the state of Hawaii? Where is that post? Everything moves so fast around here.

  108. avatar
    Majority Will April 26, 2011 at 2:15 pm #

    Joey: I don’t think that many people expect the issue to go away. Both Republicans and Democrats will continue to use the issue to the advantage of their own respective political ideology.

    Right. As if the “issue” would “go away”. What an idiot. This birther troll has admitted to being a political enemy of the President and most likely fantasizes hundreds of times of day about finding new ways to smear and insult him or his family and attempt to delegitimize his administration. There is absolutely no reason to appease a blatant bigot and political enemy whose primary motivation is to destroy the reputation of the President of the United States.

    Birther twits like this deserve nothing but scorn and derision.

  109. avatar
    Joey April 26, 2011 at 2:37 pm #

    Majority Will: Right. As if the “issue” would “go away”. What an idiot. This birther troll has admitted to being a political enemy of the President and most likely fantasizes hundreds of times of day about finding new ways to smear and insult him or his family and attempt to delegitimize his administration. There is absolutely no reason to appease a blatant bigot and political enemy whose primary motivation is to destroy the reputation of the President of the United States.

    Birther twits like this deserve nothing but scorn and derision.

    I was reading an article just the other day that said the Democrats are using the birther issue for fundraising campaigns and of course the birther issue plays well with Hispanics who also have their citizenship questioned on a regular basis. Obama needs a large Hispanic vote to win reelection.
    Obama uses the birther issue as a “divide and conquer” tactic as Republicans line up for and against the issue. Several strong conservative Republicans, like Governor Jan Brewer of Arizona who vetoed a birther bill are now “persona no grata” among right wing birthers. The more division there is among conservatives, the better it is for the President.
    Every time a Republican comes out publically as an “anti-birther” the less likely it becomes that President Obama will ever release a long form birth certificate.

  110. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    Judge Mental: All of these are surely also still perfectly legal for all uses that a post 2001 format COLB is good for, no?

    In many cases, provided your older CERTIFIED form is still in “healthy acceptible” condition, you can still use it. It was a certified document at the time you received it and you are “grandfathered in” on being able to use it as such, until it has to be replaced.

    Now if it is worn, torn, yellowed with age, smudged or stained – you may be required to replace it with a new one in order to use it for verification purposes. As soon as you replace, all you get is whatever the current standard certified form is.

  111. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    Robert Clark: Many Americans still doubt that. The issue won’t go away until he releases it.

    Many? Well, I guess more than two is many. What a useless term.

    Considering that all evidence is that these “many” are mostly those that never voted for him and will never vote for him anyways… who cares.

    “Many” Americans voted for Obama. And by that use of “Many” I mean nearly 70 Million. More than ANY candidate ever received in any US election EVER. More than 9.5 million over McCain.

    Most of these “many” are very turned off by the nonsense of birtherism.

  112. avatar
    G April 26, 2011 at 3:01 pm #

    Thrifty: Didn’t the Hawaii state AG or one of his underlings point out that Obama can’t, because the long form is the property of the state of Hawaii? Where is that post? Everything moves so fast around here.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42519951/ns/politics-more_politics

    “What he got, everybody got,” said Fukino. “He put out exactly what everybody gets when they ask for a birth certificate.”

    Hawaiian officials say that the certification is, in fact, only one piece of abundant evidence of Obama’s birth in Hawaii. Joshua Wisch, a spokesman for the Hawaii attorney general’s office, noted that a public index of vital records, available for inspection in a bound volume at the Health Department’s Office of Health Status Monitoring, lists a male child named “Obama II, Barack Hussein” as having been born in the state.

    In addition, as Factcheck.org and other media organizations have repeatedly pointed out, both of Honolulu’s newspapers, the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961, and the Honolulu Star Bulletin, on Aug. 14, 1961, both ran birth announcements listing Obama’s birth on Aug. 4 of that year.

    Even Fukino accepts that her comments are not likely to end the matter for the die-hard birthers. Trump and other skeptics have questioned why the original birth certificate has not been released.
    But Wisch, the spokesman for the attorney general’s office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of “vital records,” including an original “record of live birth” — even to the individual whose birth it records.

    “It’s a Department of Health record and it can’t be released to anybody,” he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

    But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated “certification of live birth” form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago.

  113. avatar
    Whatever4 April 26, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    A while ago:

    thefarleftView: This issue has the far left liberal press trying hard to spread more lies about Obama and it doesn’t seem to want to go away.Doesn’t even matter as far more supreme court justices and even Leahy has said NBC requires two US parents to be citizens for Obama to be eligible. And there is no rebuttal from the LEFT DEATHERS to that statement. None. It is in the congressional record.

    I assume you mean Sen. Leahy in SR511. He didn’t say two citizen parents were required. He said:

    “Certainly there is no doubt that Senator McCain is of sufficient years on this earth and in this country given that he has been serving in Washington for over 25 years. However, some pundits have raised the question of whether he is a “natural born Citizen” because he was born outside of the official borders of the United States.”

    “John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American Naval base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936. Numerous legal scholars have looked into the purpose and intent of the “natural born Citizen” requirement. As far as I am aware, no one has unearthed any reason to think that the Framers would have wanted to limit the rights of children born to military families stationed abroad or that such a limited view would serve any noble purpose enshrined in our founding document. Based on the understanding of the pertinent sources of constitutional meaning, it is widely believed that if someone is born to
    American citizens anywhere in the world they are natural born citizens.”

    http://leahy.senate.gov/press/press_releases/release/?id=fd6db55d-33d4-440e-b53d-754f5bb58983

    Leahy never says nor even implies anything about anyone born ON US soil. The whole statement and text of SR511 is about the special case of Senator McCain only.

  114. avatar
    Rickey April 26, 2011 at 5:48 pm #

    nc1: How did they prove it? By showing somebody else’s birth certificate?They proved that Stig was born in Hawaii.

    So you finally admit that a short form COLB is proof of birth in Hawaii! Congratulations.

    The rest is simple arithmetic. The Nordyke twins and Stig Waidelich were born on the same date and their births were registered on the same date. Nevertheless, Stig;s certificate number is 283 digits higher than that of the Nordykes. Unless you believe that there were 300 births per day in Hawaii in 1961 (the actual number was about 1000 per month), it’s obvious that the certificate number has no direct correlation to either the date of birth or the date of registration.

    The obvious conclusion is that the certificate numbers were not assigned on the date of birth or even necessarily on the date of registration. The birth records probably were aggregated once a week or so, put in alphabetical order, and then assigned certificate numbers. This explains why the Nordykes received numbers lower than Obama’s, and why Obama received a lower number than Waidelich.

  115. avatar
    Rickey April 26, 2011 at 6:11 pm #

    SluggoJD:
    I debunked Jorge Baro over a year ago.

    The cast of characters among birther “experts” is breathtaking. Orly Taitz (sanctioned), Phil Berg (sanctioned), Charles E. Lincoln (disbarred), Jes Beard (disbarred), “Ron Polarik” (thoroughly discredited), Lucas Smith (convicted forger), Mario Apuzzo (barely escaped sanctions), John Hemenway (barely avoided sanctions(, Jorge Baro (license revoked), Chris Strunk (illegally using a mail drop as his voter registration address), TechDude (exposed as a phony), Larry Sinclair – and I’m sure that there are others I have forgotten.

  116. avatar
    misha April 26, 2011 at 7:27 pm #

    Joey: The answer provided by Gibbs was that the President’s birth certificate issued by the state of Hawaii is available on the internet.

    Gibbs: “It’s on the internet, Lester.”

    A third rate reporter for a fifth rate Baltimore radio station, and WND – worse than the supermarket tabloids.

  117. avatar
    nemocapn April 26, 2011 at 7:39 pm #

    Rickey: nc1: How did they prove it? By showing somebody else’s birth certificate?They proved that Stig was born in Hawaii.

    So you finally admit that a short form COLB is proof of birth in Hawaii! Congratulations.

    LOL. You got nc1 to admit a COLB is a birth certificate.

  118. avatar
    Majority Will April 26, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    nemocapn: LOL.You got nc1 to admit a COLB is a birth certificate.

    She’s probably going to punish herself for a fortnight with a long, painful self-flagellation ritual to purge herself of such blasphemous thoughts.

  119. avatar
    Sef April 26, 2011 at 8:36 pm #

    Majority Will: She’s probably going to punish herself for a fortnight with a long, painful self-flagellation ritual to purge herself of such blasphemous thoughts.

    Hope she’s not a member of Opus Dei. Could get bloody.

  120. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 26, 2011 at 9:41 pm #

    Majority Will: She’s probably going to punish herself for a fortnight with a long, painful self-flagellation ritual to purge herself of such blasphemous thoughts.

    I think her self destruct mode just activated

  121. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 26, 2011 at 9:42 pm #

    Rickey: The cast of characters among birther “experts” is breathtaking. Orly Taitz (sanctioned), Phil Berg (sanctioned), Charles E. Lincoln (disbarred), Jes Beard (disbarred), “Ron Polarik” (thoroughly discredited), Lucas Smith (convicted forger), Mario Apuzzo (barely escaped sanctions), John Hemenway (barely avoided sanctions(, Jorge Baro (license revoked), Chris Strunk (illegally using a mail drop as his voter registration address), TechDude (exposed as a phony), Larry Sinclair – and I’m sure that there are others I have forgotten.

    You forgot the part where Strunk rails against government entitlements while collecting government entitlements.

  122. avatar
    Greg April 26, 2011 at 11:36 pm #

    Robert Clark: Tuchman doesn’t work for the White House. He’s another reporter. So you have a reporter asking another reporter.

    The key part of that was “according to the White House.” He doesn’t work for the White House, but he asked the White House. He is reporting on what they said!

  123. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    Thrifty: Didn’t the Hawaii state AG or one of his underlings point out that Obama can’t, because the long form is the property of the state of Hawaii?Where is that post?Everything moves so fast around here.

    The point was made on the CNN report on Monday that someone can get a copy of the original long form birth certificate with a FOIA request. The Hawaii DOH just doesn’t like to do so because it’s much cheaper and easier to just have a computer print out a standardized form.

    Bob

  124. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 12:14 am #

    Robert Clark: The point was made on the CNN report on Monday that someone can get a copy of the original long form birth certificate with a FOIA request. The Hawaii DOH just doesn’t like to do so because it’s much cheaper and easier to just have a computer print out a standardized form.

    Bob

    You fail to mention that this form was discouraged and has no legal validity…

  125. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 12:34 am #

    Slartibartfast: You fail to mention that this form was discouraged and has no legal validity…

    He also fails to mention that a FOIA request is a completely separate process, OUTSIDE of the HI DOH procedures on BC access.

    In other words, it is a way to get at the document that is a legal end-run-around their own rules and systems which do NOT release that document.

  126. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:44 am #

    Robert Clark: The point was made on the CNN report on Monday that someone can get a copy of the original long form birth certificate with a FOIA request. The Hawaii DOH just doesn’t like to do so because it’s much cheaper and easier to just have a computer print out a standardized form.

    Do you understand that a FOIA request is an entirely different animal than a request for a birth certificate?

    If you go to the DOH and request a birth certificate, you will get a short form.

    If you write a letter to the UIPA contact person for the Department of Health requesting a copy of your birth records, and the UIPA contact person determines, in consultation with the legal counsel for the DOH, OIP and AG’s office that the information contained in your birth records does not fall within one of the exemptions for the UIPA, then you’ll get a copy of your birth records.

    The DOH releases the short form in response to requests they receive for a birth certificate because that’s what they give. It’s what their regulations authorize them to give.

    A totally separate regulation, a totally separate law, and a totally separate office cover UIPA requests.

    It has nothing to do with what the DOH likes.

  127. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 1:11 am #

    Greg: Do you understand that a FOIA request is an entirely different animal than a request for a birth certificate? If you go to the DOH and request a birth certificate, you will get a short form. If you write a letter to the UIPA contact person for the Department of Health requesting a copy of your birth records, and the UIPA contact person determines, in consultation with the legal counsel for the DOH, OIP and AG’s office that the information contained in your birth records does not fall within one of the exemptions for the UIPA, then you’ll get a copy of your birth records. The DOH releases the short form in response to requests they receive for a birth certificate because that’s what they give. It’s what their regulations authorize them to give. A totally separate regulation, a totally separate law, and a totally separate office cover UIPA requests. It has nothing to do with what the DOH likes.

    Thank you for explaining the process in explicit and correct detail.

  128. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 1:25 am #

    Looking over the OIP’s informal opinion letters. Looks like someone tried the “common ancestor” method of getting Obama’s birth certificate:

    Informal Opinion Letter Summary

    UIPA Memo 11-7

    Vital Records

    Requester asked whether the Office of Health Statistics, Department of Health (DOH), properly denied Requester’s request for a certified copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Barack Hussein Obama II (Obama Birth Certificate) under part II of the UIPA.

    Requester asked for a copy of the Obama birth certificate citing the provision of Hawaii’s vital statistics law that makes vital records confidential, but permits copies to be provided where DOH is satisfied that the requester has a direct and tangible interest in the record, such as a “a person having a common ancestor with the registrant.” HRS § 338-18(b)(5). The Requester claimed a common ancestor of either Noah or Adam from Biblical reference or the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) from scientific theory. DOH denied access, applying HRS § 338-18(b)(5) to limit common ancestors to those shown by verifiable vital records, and rejecting a construction that included all of humankind.

    OIP found that DOH’s withholding was proper under HRS § 338-18(b)(5) and HRS § 92F-13(4). HRS § 1-15(3) (under Hawaii law, every construction of the law “which leads to an absurdity shall be rejected.”).

  129. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 1:27 am #

    Greg: Looking over the OIP’s informal opinion letters. Looks like someone tried the “common ancestor” method of getting Obama’s birth certificate:

    LOL! Good find. Obvious conclusion. Thanks for sharing!

  130. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) April 27, 2011 at 9:13 am #

    OHHHHH Its all over!!! CBS news just posted this this morning. A copy of Obama’s long form

    http://twitpic.com/4q47pm

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/27/135765548/obamas-certificate-of-live-birth-released-by-the-white-house

  131. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 9:31 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): OHHHHH Its all over!!! CBS news just posted this this morning. A copy of Obama’s long formhttp://twitpic.com/4q47pmhttp://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/27/135765548/obamas-certificate-of-live-birth-released-by-the-white-house

    LOL! WOW… Now this is the shocking news of the day.

    hahaha.

    BTW – It is 9:30am right now & Trump is holding a press conference “taking credit” for this.

    At 9:45am, Obama himself will hold a press conference on his official “long form” release.

    What surprises me about the document is that Obama used the power of his office to not only get the “long form” but also to get it as a Certified Copy by Alvin T. Onaka.

    My only concern is that taking such extra measures by use of his office to get what others can’t get is a bad precedent. But hey, it is done, it is out there, it VERIFIES EVERYTHING that we’ve known all along… so shut up silly birthers!

    The funniest part of THIS BIG NEWS and these past few days – Poor Dr. C – he thought he could simply take a mere 4 day vacation… and look what happens during those 4 days… !!!

    LMAO!

  132. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2011 at 9:36 am #

    Robert Clark: The point was made on the CNN report on Monday that someone can get a copy of the original long form birth certificate with a FOIA request. The Hawaii DOH just doesn’t like to do so because it’s much cheaper and easier to just have a computer print out a standardized form.

    Bob

    There you go, Bob. The form is out.

    Now what do you demand or can we count on your support for Obama in 2012?

  133. avatar
    Sef April 27, 2011 at 9:37 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross):
    OHHHHH Its all over!!!CBS news just posted this this morning.A copy of Obama’s long form

    http://twitpic.com/4q47pm

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/27/135765548/obamas-certificate-of-live-birth-released-by-the-white-house

    They’re gonna squawk that there’s no “doctor’s” signature, only an “attendant”. And no “date filed”, only “accepted”. And the area for evidence of delayed filing or alteration has “obviously” been expunged. It’s time to grease up the skids on the goal posts.

  134. avatar
    Lupin April 27, 2011 at 9:45 am #

    And now they want his school transcripts.

    The scary black man can’t win.

  135. avatar
    Scientist April 27, 2011 at 9:50 am #

    I’m VERY DISAPPOINTED in the President. He wants to ruin all the fun. I was looking forward to another year and a half of this. Barack, you are not my BFF any more…

  136. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 27, 2011 at 10:02 am #

    Well, this backs up what was reported on AC 360 last night – the White House thinks the birthers are bad for American even if they are good for the President politically.

    Hey birthers! Can you please STFU now?

    (I know, they can’t talk right now – they’re busy moving goal posts…)

  137. avatar
    G April 27, 2011 at 10:02 am #

    Sef: They’re gonna squawk that there’s no “doctor’s” signature, only an “attendant”. And no “date filed”, only “accepted”. And the area for evidence of delayed filing or alteration has “obviously” been expunged. It’s time to grease up the skids on the goal posts.

    The box for M.D. is checked next to the attendant doctor’s signature.

  138. avatar
    Scientist April 27, 2011 at 10:09 am #

    G: The box for M.D. is checked next to the attendant doctor’s signature.

    Keep in mind that a senior physician like Dr West probably had interns and residents working with him. The person who signed the form is likely one of those. In no way does that affect its legitimacy.

    I will point out that the grave error Trump et al.. made was that they were always playing the game on Obama’s turf, since Obama knew from day 1 where he was born and they could only speculate. While such an error was not surprising from an unsophisticated bunch like the birthers, for someone like Trump who has written books on how to negotiate, it’s quite devastating.

  139. avatar
    Gregory April 27, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    Scientist: Keep in mind that a senior physician like Dr West probably had interns and residents working with him.The person who signed the form is likely one of those.In no way does that affect its legitimacy.

    But an “attendant” (as in “attending physician”) would most likely be the M.D. in charge of the entire hospital (for the hours in question).

  140. avatar
    Scientist April 27, 2011 at 10:21 am #

    Gregory: But an “attendant” (as in “attending physician”) would most likely be the M.D. in charge of the entire hospital (for the hours in question

    “Attendant” on a birth certificate is the doctor who was actually in the room when the baby popped out, not necessarily the “attending physician” in the hospital sense. I’m sure someone will track down this doctor if he is still alive. He may or may not remember the specific birth. It’s of no consequence either

  141. avatar
    richCares April 27, 2011 at 10:23 am #

    Obama released his loi\ng form, so what do birthers say now?
    .
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/27/white-house-releases-obama-birth-certificate/?hpt=C1

  142. avatar
    Keith April 27, 2011 at 10:32 am #

    I’m almost disappointed.

  143. avatar
    Vince Treacy April 27, 2011 at 11:09 am #

    Rich, they will challenge it as a forgery. See bdaman over at Turley “Isn’t it weird how it’s displayed. Whats up with the rolled portion on the left margin. How bout the difference in box 20 and 22.”

    Most of the birthers are dead in the water, but long live the afterbirthers, to wit, the dual citizenship and the two citizen parent crank constitutionalists.

    Donofrio has already gone off with his dual ciizenship theory. His latest craze is that the Jay Treaty (!) somehow cancels the 14th Amendment.

    We have all predicted this reaction, here and everywhere else. We knew the release would not settle the birthers.

    I am going to sit back and watch the worms wriggle on the fry pan.

  144. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    Majority Will: There you go, Bob. The form is out.

    Now what do you demand or can we count on your support for Obama in 2012?

    No, most if not all birthers are not Obama supporters to begin with. He would have to change his economic outlook for me to support him.

    Bob

  145. avatar
    Greg April 27, 2011 at 12:22 pm #

    No, most if not all birthers are not Obama supporters to begin with

    You knew this and still claimed you could think of no reason why Obama wouldn’t release the form?

    Were you dissembling about not being able to figure it out or were you really unable to figure it out?

    Should I search for your answer when it was pointed out that it wouldn’t convince anyone to vote for him?

  146. avatar
    The Magic M April 27, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    > They’re gonna squawk that there’s no “doctor’s” signature, only an “attendant”.

    You already see the first ones claiming (as I predicted) “a certificate of birth is not a birth certificate”, though they were fine with the “certificates of birth” presented by other birthers when they were about “a certification is not a certificate”. Pathetic.

    > And no “date filed”, only “accepted”.

    Expectable. Though they used to complain about the COLB saying “date filed” and not “date accepted”. Still I wouldn’t be surprised if now that it’s “date accepted”, they’ll still find something to harp on about.

  147. avatar
    Joey April 27, 2011 at 12:45 pm #

    As a taxpayer, I’m disappointed that the Obama Administration spent taxpayers’ money to fly the president’s attorney from Washington DC all the way to Honolulu and back just to pick up a copy of the Certificate of Live Birth. What a waste of our money. Probably a $10,000 trip (business class) for nothing.

  148. avatar
    y_p_w April 27, 2011 at 12:53 pm #

    Joey:
    As a taxpayer, I’m disappointed that the Obama Administration spent taxpayers’ money to fly the president’s attorney from Washington DC all the way to Honolulu and back just to pick up a copy of the Certificate of Live Birth. What a waste of our money. Probably a $10,000 trip (business class) for nothing.

    This was his personal attorney. The US government wouldn’t be sending her around at taxpayer expense. The President would have had to send her there at either his own expense or would perhaps charge it to his campaign.

    President Obama does have the funds to do this. Didn’t Mrs O write a book?

  149. avatar
    Joey April 27, 2011 at 1:05 pm #

    y_p_w: This was his personal attorney.The US government wouldn’t be sending her around at taxpayer expense.The President would have had to send her there at either his own expense or would perhaps charge it to his campaign.

    President Obama does have the funds to do this.Didn’t Mrs O write a book?

    Whew, that’s a relief! πŸ™‚
    Maybe they used frequent flier miles for the trip!

  150. avatar
    nemocapn April 27, 2011 at 1:16 pm #

    Obama can’t win:

    He’s spending all that money to hide his birth certificate!
    He’s spending all that money to produce his birth certificate!

  151. avatar
    Robert Clark April 27, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

    Greg: You knew this and still claimed you could think of no reason why Obama wouldn’t release the form?

    Were you dissembling about not being able to figure it out or were you really unable to figure it out?

    Should I search for your answer when it was pointed out that it wouldn’t convince anyone to vote for him?

    As I said before polls, show there are a large number of people who didn’t know one way or the other. This could help them have a firm idea that he is.

    Bob

  152. avatar
    Sef April 27, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    G: The box for M.D. is checked next to the attendant doctor’s signature.

    Yes, I know. I was just channeling the birthers.

  153. avatar
    Sef April 27, 2011 at 1:44 pm #

    Robert Clark: As I said before polls, show there are a large number of people who didn’t know one way or the other. This could help them have a firm idea that he is.

    Bob

    Those are called “low information voters”.

  154. avatar
    Scientist April 27, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    Robert Clark: As I said before polls, show there are a large number of people who didn’t know one way or the other. This could help them have a firm idea that he is

    And why wouldn’t it change the minds of some who were certain he wasn’t born in the US also?

  155. avatar
    Daniel April 27, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    Robert Clark: As I said before polls, show there are a large number of people who didn’t know one way or the other. This could help them have a firm idea that he is.

    Bob

    I feel for you Bob.

    Must be getting harder and harder to be a convincing concern troll these days.

  156. avatar
    misha April 27, 2011 at 10:05 pm #

    Lupin: And now they want his school transcripts.The scary black man can’t win.

    I was watching the CBS News tonight. Katie Couric said ‘Obama was asked to prove he is a citizen, something no other president has ever been asked to do.’

    Then Bob Schieffer reported that ‘Trump now wants Obama’s transcripts, that Obama got into Harvard because he’s black. This whole thing reeks of racism.’

  157. avatar
    Stanislaw April 28, 2011 at 9:03 am #

    misha:

    Then Bob Schieffer reported that Trump now wants Obama’s transcripts, that Obama got into Harvard because he’s black. This whole thing reeks of racism.’

    Let’s hope that other people have the guts to call out birtherism for what it is: racism. I would say that it was thinly-veiled racism but that veil came off a long time ago.

    In the meantime, does anyone know of any boycotts or letter writing campaigns to NBC? As long as Trump has a presence on that network I’m reluctant to watch any of their shows. If it worked against Glenn Beck so I don’t see why it wouldn’t work against Trump.

  158. avatar
    The Magic M April 28, 2011 at 11:04 am #

    > Obama can’t win:
    >
    > He’s spending all that money to hide his birth certificate!
    > He’s spending all that money to produce his birth certificate!

    He does not produce his birth certificate, he must not have one!
    He produced his birth certificate, it must be a diversion!

    He only showed a certification of live birth, not a certificate of live birth!
    He only showed a certificate of live birth, not a birth certificate!

    His BC does not like the least like the Nordyke ones!
    His BC looks exactly like the Nordyke ones!

    Yes, he really can’t win against ODS.

  159. avatar
    The Magic M April 28, 2011 at 11:05 am #

    I forgot:

    His COLB only says “date filed”, not “date accepted”, so it was only filed but never accepted!
    His LFBC only says “date accepted”, not “date filed”, so it was only accepted but never filed!