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Obama campaign responds to birther book

Julianna Smoot, Deputy Campaign Manager for Barack Obama’s reelection campaign sent this in an email to supporters:

Let me introduce you to Jerome Corsi.

This week he released a new book that the publisher says will be a bestseller “of historic proportions.”

The title is “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” — yes, really.

Corsi’s work is a greatest-hits reel of delusions, ranging from 9/11 conspiracies to claiming that there is an infinite supply of oil in the Earth’s core. In 2008, he published a book about Barack Obama claiming, among other things, that he (a) is a secret Muslim; (b) is secretly anti-military; (c) secretly dealt drugs; and (d) secretly supported terrorist actions when he was eight years old. So many secrets!

FactCheck.org called Corsi’s work “a mishmash of unsupported conjecture, half-truths, logical fallacies and outright falsehoods.”

There’s really no way to make this stuff completely go away. The only thing we can do is laugh at it — and make sure as many other people as possible are in on the joke.

85 Responses to Obama campaign responds to birther book

  1. avatar
    richCares May 18, 2011 at 4:00 pm #

    I love the “Corsi is a joke” meme, it’s right on!

  2. avatar
    Retired Intelligence Officer May 18, 2011 at 4:29 pm #

    Interesting. I thought Obama said at the press conference that he didn’t have time for this silliness. This will backfire on him since experts in computer graphics are deeming the document a forgery. It wasn’t even the original he released.

  3. avatar
    BatGuano May 18, 2011 at 4:31 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer:
    …. since experts in computer graphics are deeming the document a forgery.

    exactly who are these experts?

  4. avatar
    BatGuano May 18, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer:
    …. experts in computer graphics….

    do these experts also give there thoughts on why they think the document was created in AI, a program not designed for photo manipulation, instead of photoshop?

  5. avatar
    BatGuano May 18, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    “their thoughts”

  6. avatar
    Majority Will May 18, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer:
    Interesting. I thought Obama said at the press conference that he didn’t have time for this silliness. This will backfire on him since experts in computer graphics are deeming the document a forgery. It wasn’t even the original he released.

    The experts from the supermarket tabloids like The Globe? Is that where you also get your understanding of Constitutional law?

    Isn’t the copy entirely irrelevant since the state of Hawaii has vouched for the document’s provenance and legal authenticity?

    Or are you not much of a believer in the authority of U.S. laws? Are there some laws which are more legal than others?

  7. avatar
    Thrifty May 18, 2011 at 4:52 pm #

    BatGuano: exactly who are these experts?

    Have any of you seen the shlocky cult film sensation, and Tommy Wiseau’s inadvertent comedic masterpiece, The Room? It’s established, rather clumsily, that the character Lisa works in “the computer business”.

    This is kinda what birthers are doing to condemn the authenticity of the long form. So called “experts in computer graphics” say it is a forgery. They get to be called experts in computer graphics, apparently, because they say “I’m an expert in computer graphics”. More strict qualifications seem to include the following line of reasoning:

    1) This guy works in the information technology field, and is skilled with computers.
    2) Forged images are often made with computer programs, like Photoshop.
    3) Therefore, anyone who works in the in the information technology field becomes a qualified expert in computer graphics.

    Meanwhile, Adobe-certified expert (Adobe, the guys who make Photoshop, so he knows a thing or two about graphics programs) and skilled software trainer Jean-Claude Tremblay, says the LFBC is authentic. But he doesn’t count, I suppose, because he’s not saying what the birthers want to hear.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/29/expert-says-obamas-birth-certificate-legit/

  8. avatar
    US Citizen May 18, 2011 at 4:53 pm #

    For those that believe, no explanation is necessary.
    For those who do not, none will suffice.

  9. avatar
    Majority Will May 18, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    “The only thing we can do is laugh at it — and make sure as many other people as possible are in on the joke.”

    It would be funny if birthers weren’t so blatantly disrespectful of the Constitution and our laws.

    Birthers who murder, plot the military overthrow of the government and take the law into their own hands are a disgrace to the U.S. They belong in prison.

  10. avatar
    Thrifty May 18, 2011 at 5:01 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: Interesting. I thought Obama said at the press conference that he didn’t have time for this silliness. This will backfire on him since experts in computer graphics are deeming the document a forgery. It wasn’t even the original he released.

    Fascinating. Literally every sentence in that post is stupid and incorrect.

    When President Obama said that he didn’t have time for this silliness, he meant that it was bad for the country for this to be dominating the headlines, as it was at that time. It did not mean that him and his people would never ever under any circumstances mention it ever again.

    I want to see the names and credentials of these so-called experts. Being an expert takes more than saying “I’m an expert! Listen to me.” I could put on a white coat and a stethoscope and call myself a doctor, but that doesn’t make me qualified to go to the hospital and start treating patients. Apparently, in birther land, all it takes to be an expert is saying what you want to hear. Actual, qualified experts, have declared it to be authentic. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/29/expert-says-obamas-birth-certificate-legit/

    Of course he didn’t release the original. It’s a photocopy. Does the Constituion not count unless you’re reading one of the originals from the 18th century. The LFBC is property of the state of Hawaii. They keep it in their vital records vaults. From the looks of the copy, it appears to have been photocopied out of a bound volume (see the curve of the lines on the left hand side that you always see when photocopying out of a book). You think they’re going to let someone just take the only copy of their archived records?

  11. avatar
    Thrifty May 18, 2011 at 5:02 pm #

    Man, they’re not pulling any punches. Usually the spokesmen for a politician uses very carefully crafted language so as not to offend. But I guess when you’re dealing with conspiracy theorists, there’s really no need to go easy on them.

  12. avatar
    Daniel May 18, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer:
    Interesting. I thought Obama said at the press conference that he didn’t have time for this silliness.

    There’s always time to ridicule the ridiculous……

    But perhaps you missed the part where Obama wasn’t the person saying this? You seem to miss a lot these days.

    Is it a failing on your part? Or perhaps wilful ignorance?

    Or perhaps you have come to realize you’re one lifeboat short on a ship that’s sinking fast, and you’re desperately grasping at straws?

  13. avatar
    Retired Intelligence Officer May 18, 2011 at 5:10 pm #

    Thrifty: Jean-Claude Tremblay

    What other skilled software person has vouched for it’s authenticity besides Jean-Claude Tremblay? This computer software person seems to think it’s a forgery and that Obama and the forgers have committed a class B felony. His name is Doug Vogt, a software imaging expert.

    Here is his observations of the ‘alleged’ long form.
    http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/55594183

  14. avatar
    Daniel May 18, 2011 at 5:12 pm #

    BatGuano: do these experts also give there thoughts on why they think the document was created in AI, a program not designed for photo manipulation, instead of photoshop?

    Retired Intelligence Officer:
    Interesting. I thought Obama said at the press conference that he didn’t have time for this silliness. This will backfire on him since experts in computer graphics are deeming the document a forgery. It wasn’t even the original he released.

    Retired Intelligence Officer:
    Interesting. I thought Obama said at the press conference that he didn’t have time for this silliness. This will backfire on him since experts in computer graphics are deeming the document a forgery. It wasn’t even the original he released.

    Retired Intelligence Officer: This will backfire on him since experts in computer graphics are deeming the document a forgery. It wasn’t even the original he released.

    Have these “experts” explained, from the comfort of their parents basement, why the Hawaiian authorities who did the certified copies have testified that they are, in fact, copies of the original?

  15. avatar
    Daniel May 18, 2011 at 5:13 pm #

    sorry for the multi-post…. but then RIO just keeps repeating the same crap over and over anyways…

  16. avatar
    Daniel May 18, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: What other skilled software person has vouched for it’s authenticity besides Jean-Claude Tremblay?

    Ummmmm…. you mean other than the Hawaiin officials who actually did and supervised and certified it?

    You mean other than they?

    -blink-

  17. avatar
    Thrifty May 18, 2011 at 5:15 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: What other skilled software person has vouched for it’s authenticity besides Jean-Claude Tremblay? This computer software person seems to think it’s a forgery and that Obama and the forgers have committed a class B felony. His name is Doug Vogt, a software imaging expert.Here is his observations of the alleged’ long form.http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/55594183

    Wow. You actually answered a question. Now please answer the question I keep posing. Why was Barack Obama allowed on 51 ballots, certified by Congress, and inaugurated if he was ineligible to be president due to his father not being a citizen at the time of his birth? This was publicly known well before the election.

  18. avatar
    Thrifty May 18, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    Daniel: Ummmmm…. you mean other than the Hawaiin officials who actually did and supervised and certified it?You mean other than they?-blink-

    Beautifully succinct answer. I got hung up on the requirement of “skilled software person” that I failed to see its absurdity. You don’t have to know jack about computers to work in vital records.

  19. avatar
    ellid May 18, 2011 at 5:33 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer:
    Interesting. I thought Obama said at the press conference that he didn’t have time for this silliness. This will backfire on him since experts in computer graphics are deeming the document a forgery. It wasn’t even the original he released.

    Wrong on all counts, you nasty little “veteran.”

    Also, I’m waiting for the proof that you ever did more than clean up the filter tips, let alone be entrusted with military or civilian intelligence.

  20. avatar
    US Citizen May 18, 2011 at 5:33 pm #

    How some on the right see it…

    http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/profiles/blogs/obama-2012-campaign-letter-2

  21. avatar
    BatGuano May 18, 2011 at 5:42 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: What other skilled software person has vouched for it’s authenticity besides Jean-Claude Tremblay?

    Nathan Goulding, Chief Technology Officer of National Review..

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/265767/pdf-layers-obamas-birth-certificate-nathan-goulding

  22. avatar
    JoZeppy May 18, 2011 at 6:50 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: What other skilled software person has vouched for it’s authenticity besides Jean-Claude Tremblay? This computer software person seems to think it’s a forgery and that Obama and the forgers have committed a class B felony. His name is Doug Vogt, a software imaging expert.Here is his observations of the alleged’ long form.http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/55594183

    Well, he fancies himself an expert on quite a few things. Here are some gems from his screed:

    “What President Obama presented is not the hospital birth certificate. The birth certificate wouldhave the imprint of the baby’s footprint, weight, length and other information such as the religion.”

    How exactly is being a purported “software imaging expert” qualify him to make this statement?

    That, and he thinks being a CPA makes him qualified to make statements on the law (which is really half of his statement)…not to mention he seems to think citing Tim Adams and WND really helps? Sorry, this just birther garbage no court would take seriously. About the only person in the world that would take this seriously enough is probably Orly…and I’m willing to bet if she hasn’t already, she will soon attach it to one of her court filing any day now.

  23. avatar
    richCares May 18, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    I would like the retired intelligence officer or any birther to explain why and how the State of Hawaii supplied Obama with a forged birth certificate. Now that is a rather silly accusation, is this what they call “afterbirther”. Is this what you believe, if so, you need to check in to a mental institution.

  24. avatar
    Obsolete May 18, 2011 at 8:09 pm #

    RIO-
    Here is why claims that the LFBC is a forgery are NEVER going to gain traction and get you anywhere.

    1- IT ISN’T ROCKET SCIENCE
    Adobe software, as well as people who are skilled in it, are very common. Millions use it in the United States alone. So there are lots of people who can follow the experiments from home and get the same results explaining the multiple “layers”.

    A handful of birther “software technology experts” can’t pull the wool over the eyes when so many can easily debunk their junk claims.

    I started using Adobe Photoshop 2.0 back around 1993/94 on my Mac IIci. Over the years I’ve use it to make rave and band flyers, album covers, CD Covers, creating & optimizing product images for e-commerce sites, for fun, etc. In the last 16 years, I haven’t gone longer then a month or two without using it for something.
    While I haven’t used Illustrator to anywhere near the same degree, I have used it occasionally since the late 90’s, and had to become proficient enough to edit and tweak logos with it that were designed by professional illustrators I hired/worked with on various projects.

    My story is hardly unique. Even among my friends, I’d say that at least half use graphic software on a regular basis.

    The simple fact is, all of the birther claims of forgery are wrong. And millions of Americans know they are wrong because they can see for themselves.
    Any news desk/TV station/Large news blog will have a young intern working there who can tell the inquisitive reporter across the news room “Nah, it’s not fake, it is just what you would expect to see.” So no reputable news source will run with “it’s a forgery” when it can be proved otherwise internally.

    The only people who will be fooled by their claims are those who don’t work much with computers and don’t know the difference between a Photoshop layer, a mask or a filter. Coincidentally, this would seem to match the birther demographic. Oh, and it will fool those who want to be fooled because they want it to be a forgery.

    2- The State of Hawaii has confirmed its authenticity.

    They have issued documents that attest to the authenticity,the process, and the chain of custody.

    YOU WILL NEVER GET BEYOND THIS. YOU WILL NEVER TRUMP THIS.

    This is a Royal Flush against any weak hand you can muster. If you want to convince anybody of your pathetic forgery claims, you have to quit paying so much attention to a mere Internet image, and come up with something to prove the State of Hawaii is wrong or lying.

    Good luck with that.

  25. avatar
    Obsolete May 18, 2011 at 8:18 pm #

    Sorry for missing a closing tag.

    RIO- you have to explain Hawaii’s actions, and quit obsessing over a mere Internet image.

    So where in the chain was the “forgery” introduced?

  26. avatar
    GeorgetownJD May 18, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer:
    Interesting. I thought Obama said at the press conference that he didn’t have time for this silliness. This will backfire on him since experts in computer graphics are deeming the document a forgery. It wasn’t even the original he released.

    Obama does not have time for this, but his campaign staff does. Between the President’s humorous jabs at Trump at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner, his witty remarks when he was fundraising in New York, and now this t-shirt and coffee mug promotion, I’d say the birth certificate issue is backfiring on the birthers.

  27. avatar
    ANTPogo May 18, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    JoZeppy: Well, he fancies himself an expert on quite a few things.

    Indeed. Mr. Douglas B. Vogt is quite the scientific polymath. As you can tell from his books such as Reality Revealed: The theory of multidimensional reality, Gravitational Mystery Spots of the United States: Explained Using the Theory of Multidimensional Reality, and God’s Day of Judgment: The Real Cause of Global Warming.

    Regarding the latter, this webpage says:

    About the author:
    Douglas Vogt is an amature geologist and science philosopher and writer. He has funded and directed three expeditions to the Sinai desert where he was the first person since Baruch (Jeremiah’s grandson) to discover the real Mount Sinai. He discovered all the altars that Moses described in the Torah. In addition he was the first person since Moses to see the real Abraham’s altar also located at Mount Sinai and not in Jerusalem. He has discovered the code systems used by Moses when writing the surface story of the Torah, which enabled him to decode the Torah and other earlier books of the Hebrew Scriptures.

    How do we know this is the same guy from the affidavit? Well, Vector Publishing, who publishes the above books (the About the Author quote is from their webpage), is based in Bellview, Washington, same as the Archive Index company listed on the affidavit.

    Not convincing enough? Well, just look at Vector Publishing’s home page.: Right there on the left-hand side is a clickable picture of Obama’s long form certificate, captioned “Complete informaton on the Obama Fraudulent Certificate of Live Birth and supporting documents.” (Yes, typo and all).

    Clicking it takes you to a statement from Mr. Vogt about the “fraud”, complete with a re-iteration of his credentials, containing a link to a pdf of the affidavit found at the Scribd link, hosted on the Vector Publishing website.

    Some “expert”.

  28. avatar
    Retired Intelligence Officer May 18, 2011 at 11:32 pm #

    ANTPogo: Indeed. Mr. Douglas B. Vogt is quite the scientific polymath. As you can tell from his books such as Reality Revealed: The theory of multidimensional reality, Gravitational Mystery Spots of the United States: Explained Using the Theory of Multidimensional Reality, and God’s Day of Judgment: The Real Cause of Global Warming.Regarding the latter, this webpage says:How do we know this is the same guy from the affidavit? Well, Vector Publishing, who publishes the above books (the About the Author quote is from their webpage), is based in Bellview, Washington, same as the Archive Index company listed on the affidavit.Not convincing enough? Well, just look at Vector Publishing’s home page.: Right there on the left-hand side is a clickable picture of Obama’s long form certificate, captioned “Complete informaton on the Obama Fraudulent Certificate of Live Birth and supporting documents.” (Yes, typo and all).Clicking it takes you to a statement from Mr. Vogt about the “fraud”, complete with a re-iteration of his credentials, containing a link to a pdf of the affidavit found at the Scribd link, hosted on the Vector Publishing website.Some “expert”.

    That is irrelevant to the subject of him debunking Obama’s forgery.

  29. avatar
    richCares May 18, 2011 at 11:48 pm #

    RIO says “That is irrelevant to the subject of him debunking Obama’s forgery.”
    He did no debunking, still think Hawaii produced a fraudulent certificate? I can recommend a good therapist for you dear afterbirther.

  30. avatar
    Majority Will May 18, 2011 at 11:48 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: That is irrelevant to the subject of him debunking Obama’s forgery.

    You seem to have a disturbing problem distinguishing your personal, twisted fantasy from reality.

  31. avatar
    Retired Intelligence Officer May 19, 2011 at 12:07 am #

    Obsolete: RIO- Here is why claims that the LFBC is a forgery are NEVER going to gain traction and get you anywhere. 1- IT ISN’T ROCKET SCIENCEAdobe software, as well as people who are skilled in it, are very common. Millions use it in the United States alone. So there are lots of people who can follow the experiments from home and get the same results explaining the multiple “layers”. A handful of birther “software technology experts” can’t pull the wool over the eyes when so many can easily debunk their junk claims. I started using Adobe Photoshop 2.0 back around 1993/94 on my Mac IIci. Over the years I’ve use it to make rave and band flyers, album covers, CD Covers, creating & optimizing product images for e-commerce sites, for fun, etc. In the last 16 years, I haven’t gone longer then a month or two without using it for something. While I haven’t used Illustrator to anywhere near the same degree, I have used it occasionally since the late 90′s, and had to become proficient enough to edit and tweak logos with it that were designed by professional illustrators I hired/worked with on various projects. My story is hardly unique. Even among my friends, I’d say that at least half use graphic software on a regular basis. The simple fact is, all of the birther claims of forgery are wrong. And millions of Americans know they are wrong because they can see for themselves. Any news desk/TV station/Large news blog will have a young intern working there who can tell the inquisitive reporter across the news room “Nah, it’s not fake, it is just what you would expect to see.” So no reputable news source will run with “it’s a forgery” when it can be proved otherwise internally. The only people who will be fooled by their claims are those who don’t work much with computers and don’t know the difference between a Photoshop layer, a mask or a filter. Coincidentally, this would seem to match the birther demographic. Oh, and it will fool those who want to be fooled because they want it to be a forgery. 2- The State of Hawaii has confirmed its authenticity.They have issued documents that attest to the authenticity, the process, and the chain of custody. YOU WILL NEVER GET BEYOND THIS. YOU WILL NEVER TRUMP THIS. This is a Royal Flush against any weak hand you can muster. If you want to convince anybody of your pathetic forgery claims, you have to quit paying so much attention to a mere Internet image, and come up with something to prove the State of Hawaii is wrong or lying. Good luck with that.

    Colorado TV news station Professional graphic artist says Obama’s long-form definitely altered.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6dZIiKjZac&feature=player_embedded

  32. avatar
    Greg May 19, 2011 at 12:15 am #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: Colorado TV news stationProfessional graphic artist says Obama’s long-form definitely altered.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6dZIiKjZac&feature=player_embedded

    Hawaii DOH links to the long form from their official website. If the DOH is involved, RIO, why would they need to alter the PDF?

    Did you ever analyze the intelligence you were gathering, because it seems like your logical thinking is flawed!

  33. avatar
    Majority Will May 19, 2011 at 12:39 am #

    Greg: Hawaii DOH links to the long form from their official website. If the DOH is involved, RIO, why would they need to alter the PDF?

    Did you ever analyze the intelligence you were gathering, because it seems like your logical thinking is flawed!

    Maybe he has a special, birther edition American flag with only 49 stars.

    That scary group of islands with all of the dark skinned people with funny sounding names frightens them. Forget Pearl Harbor?

  34. avatar
    richCares May 19, 2011 at 12:51 am #

    the “AterBirthers” are totally lost in delusions, RIO and his brethren are one straight jacket away from a padded cell. It’s not funny anymore, just pathetic. The only ones claiming Hawaii is forging Obama birth certificates are the very few deluded afterbirthers. With such a step away from reality how can they get along in the real world?
    .
    in other news, Obama’s mugs are a very big hit, a really good financial support getter. Plus it ridicules the birthers. I ordered 2!

  35. avatar
    obsolete May 19, 2011 at 1:41 am #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: Colorado TV news station Professional graphic artist says Obama’s long-form definitely altered.

    If he is claiming it is a forgery, he is wrong.
    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

  36. avatar
    The Magic M May 19, 2011 at 4:24 am #

    > That scary group of islands with all of the dark skinned people with funny sounding names frightens them.

    Well, let’s quote Sharon Rondeau’s latest gem on what the birfers think of Hawaii:

    “[…]
    a completely different color from a law crafting “citizenship” by a State for their own internal purposes even while they were only a Territory and striving to gain as many “citizens” as they possibly could; thereby engendering all sorts of “creative” natality laws, documents and requirements
    […]
    using the “unusual” laws of the State intended to solve long-ago problems with natality and population growth
    […]

  37. avatar
    Daniel May 19, 2011 at 4:56 am #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: That is irrelevant to the subject of him debunking Obama’s forgery.

    It speaks to his lack of credibility. It is entirely relevant.

  38. avatar
    Daniel May 19, 2011 at 4:59 am #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: Colorado TV news station Professional graphic artist says Obama’s long-form definitely altered.

    You do realize that most graphics artists are not experts in document or computer forensics, right.

    Or perhaps you also believe that a painter is automatically a chemist?

  39. avatar
    Stanislaw May 19, 2011 at 7:33 am #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: Colorado TV news stationProfessional graphic artist says Obama’s long-form definitely altered.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6dZIiKjZac&feature=player_embedded

    The state of Hawaii would beg to differ with you:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

    So, are you done lying to people smarter than you, or would you rather keep making a complete fool of yourself?

  40. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 19, 2011 at 8:44 am #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: Colorado TV news station Professional graphic artist says Obama’s long-form definitely altered.

    There is nothing in the news clip that says that the person is a “professional graphic artist.” It just says that he’s worked with graphics images “for years.”

    And of course the fact that everybody who has done the experiment scanning a document has been able to get layers without any alteration, we know that the kid is an idiot.

  41. avatar
    ANT Pogo May 19, 2011 at 8:44 am #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: That is irrelevant to the subject of him debunking Obama’s forgery.

    This is a man with no training whatsoever in forensic or document analysis, who claims to have found Moses’ real altar in the Middle East, who writes stuff like the following:

    The original Hebrew alphabet is 22 views of a waveform that is a modified square wave superimposed on a toroid (Chapter 4). This model of a toroid is a model of how the carbon atom comes into existence as three-dimensional matter. Every single “letter” is formed when the waveform crosses the X-axis. The Torah is not what anyone thought. The 22-letters form three distinct shapes, one of them is an octahedron, which in turn forms the Star of David. This very short description does not do the subject justice. You must read Chapter 4 to understand what Mr. Vogt has discovered. He shows that the Torah is actually some kind of computer program used to program a light-based computer.

    He has a grasp of reality that’s only slightly less tenuous than the Timecube guy. In short, he has no idea what he’s talking about in his ridiculous, rambling “debunking”.

    The only reason people like you, Rondeau, and Taitz even believe him is because his nonsense confirms the nonsense you already believe (and desperately want to be true).

  42. avatar
    Retired Inteligence Officer May 19, 2011 at 9:22 am #

    Wha

    ANT Pogo: This is a man with no training whatsoever in forensic or document analysis.

    What do you base this on? Give specific reasons why you think he lacks computer graphic and imaging experience.

  43. avatar
    Greg May 19, 2011 at 9:46 am #

    Retired Inteligence Officer:
    Wha

    What do you base this on? Give specific reasons why you think he lacks computer graphic and imaging experience.

    He said forensic and document analysis experience. Please give specific reasons why you think those are equivalent to generic computer graphic and imaging experience!

  44. avatar
    ANT Pogo May 19, 2011 at 9:50 am #

    Retired Inteligence Officer:
    Wha

    What do you base this on? Give specific reasons why you think he lacks computer graphic and imaging experience.

    A) He would have said so. Instead, he cites his experience as the owner of a company that sells scanning equipment. If I were, say, commenting on forensic soil analysis of a ditch on a plot of land, and I had credentials as a biologist, toxicologist, entomologist, geologist, and/or botanist, I’d say so. What I wouldn’t do is state my only credentials as being the owner of a company that sells ditch-digging equipment.

    B) His “debunking” gets numerous facts wrong. Basic facts, like the pdf being a scan of a physical document provided by the State of Hawaii, and bearing its embossed seal (as witnessed and photographed by the press). It is not, as Vogt claims, supposed to be a PDF sent from the Hawaii DOH, but a PDF made (probably by some White House intern or staffer) from that physical document that Hawaii provided.

    Second, he claims that the only person who has rebutted the “layers” nonsense is the expert Fox News cited. That’s so blatantly false it’s silly: the National Review Online’s tech expert actually reproduced the layering effect that Vogt says is impossible by scanning in multiple documents (and making those documents available for download so anyone can see for themselves).

    Plus, an actual credentialed forensic computer scientist who has given presentations on image analysis at Department of Defense events has also rebutted the “layers” nonsense. In detail.

    In short, Vogt is a loon who has no idea what he’s talking about.

  45. avatar
    richCares May 19, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    RIO says ”
    Give specific reasons why you think he lacks computer graphic and imaging experience.”
    .
    he said “This is a man with no training whatsoever in forensic or document analysis, ” a\nd said nothing about computer graphics.
    .
    suggest RIO take reading comprehension classes, also why does RIO think that Hawaii issues forgeries? He won’t answer that>

  46. avatar
    gorefan May 19, 2011 at 9:56 am #

    ANT Pogo: In short, Vogt is a loon who has no idea what he’s talking about.

    Doesn’t Vogt post comments under the name “retired intelligence officer”?

  47. avatar
    Retired Inteligence Officer May 19, 2011 at 9:58 am #

    richCares: RIO says ”Give specific reasons why you think he lacks computer graphic and imaging experience.”.he said “This is a man with no training whatsoever in forensic or document analysis, ” a\nd said nothing about computer graphics..suggest RIO take reading comprehension classes, also why does RIO think that Hawaii issues forgeries? He won’t answer that>

    You don’t think some people in state government could commit forgeries?

  48. avatar
    Greg May 19, 2011 at 10:00 am #

    Retired Inteligence Officer: You don’t think some people in state government could commit forgeries?

    “Could” issue forgeries does not answer the question “why” issue forgeries. More reading comprehension issues?

  49. avatar
    Retired Inteligence Officer May 19, 2011 at 10:00 am #

    gorefan: Doesn’t Vogt post comments under the name “retired intelligence officer”?

    Vogt is a developer of imaging software. He knows what he is talking about. The man in the link you provided has been debunked by numerous experts.

  50. avatar
    ANT Pogo May 19, 2011 at 10:03 am #

    Retired Inteligence Officer: You don’t think some people in state government could commit forgeries?

    No, I don’t think that all the people in state government, across the administrations of two separate governors who were of opposing political parties, could commit and officially stand behind forgeries, for going on four years now.

  51. avatar
    richCares May 19, 2011 at 10:07 am #

    so again dear RIO, explain why the State of Hawaii issues forgeries. Is this done by all the State employees or just one, if just one why no outcry from the others, why did the State of Hawaii clearly show the chain of events leading to the copy. If it is so easy for you to accept WND’s “forged copy” story, how do you manage to feed yourself?

  52. avatar
    ANT Pogo May 19, 2011 at 10:12 am #

    Retired Inteligence Officer: Vogt is a developer of imaging software. He knows what he is talking about. The man in the link you provided has been debunked by numerous experts.

    Person A: “I’m a credentialed forensic computer scientist who has worked extensively on image analysis, and both written and lectured at conferences about that subject. The document is not a fake.”

    Person B: “I’m a technical guy for a website that is famous for being extensively critical of President Obama and his policies. The document is not only not a fake, here’s some other documents that show the same layering effect.”

    Person C: “I own a company that sells scanning hardware and software. I also think that the Hebrew Torah is a program for a light-based computer, think Global Warming is a sign of God’s retribution, think that goofy tourist attractions are a evidence for multidimensional reality, and think that I’ve found Biblical artifacts that no actual archaeologist even believes exist, much less discovered. The document is a fraud!”

    Birther: “I’m going with Person C! He’s obviously the most trustworthy, credible expert here!”

  53. avatar
    Greg May 19, 2011 at 10:14 am #

    Retired Inteligence Officer: You don’t think some people in state government could commit forgeries?

    The PDF wasn’t created by the State of Hawaii but the White House. So, on these facts, no, it is not possible that people in state government could have committed an electronic forgery the evidence of which is entirely contained within the electronic image they didn’t create!

  54. avatar
    ANT Pogo May 19, 2011 at 10:16 am #

    I think I screwed up the formatting, sorry…

  55. avatar
    JD Reed May 19, 2011 at 10:33 am #

    RIO, you claim a credential for which you provide no evidence or information. And you cite people with no more credible credentials than yours. Wonder why you have no credibility here?

  56. avatar
    JD Reed May 19, 2011 at 10:48 am #

    Also, Magic M, it’s ridiculous for Ms. Rondeau,to assert that recording births in state archives would add to the number of citizens counted in the state. The Census doesn’t look at birth records to determine how many residents a state has, it sends people door to door to gather that info for each household. (I once worked for the Census.) When someone asserts this, it’s obvious that they’re just making it up as they go along, which makes everything else they assert highly suspect. Of course, that’s long been the case with Sharon Rondeau, .

    >

  57. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 19, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    Retired Inteligence Officer: You don’t think some people in state government could commit forgeries?

    If you tally up all the people who have to be in on this alleged cover up, the probability of such a thing becomes vanishingly small. This raises the question as to why so many people would be obsessed with the idea so as to spend their time on web sites like this pushing impossible theories. One can only conclude that the birther movement, whatever their motivations, is not based on the likelihood that Obama is not eligible to be President.

  58. avatar
    gorefan May 19, 2011 at 11:08 am #

    Retired Inteligence Officer: The man in the link you provided has been debunked by numerous experts.

    i didn’t provide a link.

    Any you have been debunked by numerous experts and non-experts.

  59. avatar
    Daniel May 19, 2011 at 11:15 am #

    Retired Inteligence Officer: What do you base this on? Give specific reasons why you think he lacks computer graphic and imaging experience

    Interesting that you can demand substantiation when others make claims, but you consistently ignore requests for you to substantiate your claims….

  60. avatar
    misha May 19, 2011 at 11:25 am #

    ANT Pogo: You must read Chapter 4 to understand what Mr. Vogt has discovered. He shows that the Torah is actually some kind of computer program used to program a light-based computer.

    Yeah, 5K years before electricity was invented.

    The Hebrew alphabet is based on the Greek alphabet:

    aleph, bet, gimel, daled
    alpha, beta, gamma, delta

    Oh, I forgot to mention how a Kenyan student would have a son who would become president, and make Communism mandatory. It’s all foretold in Genesis, if you read it backwards.

  61. avatar
    nbc May 19, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    Retired Inteligence Officer: You don’t think some people in state government could commit forgeries?

    Sure, anything is possible, but we are talking about plausible, which raises the bar significantly, and which is why Birthers have failed utterly to present their case in any compelling manner beyond wild speculations, what-if’s etc, failing to follow the more fruitful path of facts, evidence, logic and reason.

  62. avatar
    Thrifty May 19, 2011 at 1:01 pm #

    Why would Obama forge two birth certificates to present to the public when zero were required? Further, why would he need to forge anything AND get the cooperation of top Hawaiian officials in the health statistics and record keeping fields, if there’s nothing that anyone can do because, apparently, if Obama is exposed as a fraud all the horrible savage dark skinned people will riot?

  63. avatar
    Majority Will May 19, 2011 at 1:36 pm #

    Thrifty:
    Why would Obama forge two birth certificates to present to the public when zero were required?Further, why would he need to forge anything AND get the cooperation of top Hawaiian officials in the health statistics and record keeping fields, if there’s nothing that anyone can do because, apparently, if Obama is exposed as a fraud all the horrible savage dark skinned people will riot?

    Perhaps there are experts who can prove many birthers are actually mentally ill.

  64. avatar
    richCares May 19, 2011 at 1:44 pm #

    Fox Business debunking Corsi
    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/fox-business-debunking-corsi/

  65. avatar
    misha May 19, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

    Majority Will: Perhaps there are experts who can prove many birthers are actually mentally ill.

    All you have to do is listen to Orly for five minutes. In fact, sit down with refuseniks in Tel Aviv, and listen to them lick their wounds. As I wrote many times before, I was a Sharansky supporter until he went off the deep end.

  66. avatar
    The Magic M May 19, 2011 at 1:48 pm #

    JD Reed:
    Also, Magic M, it’s ridiculous for Ms. Rondeau,to assert that recording births in state archives would add to the number of citizens counted in the state. The Census doesn’t look at birth records to determine how many residents a state has, it sends people door to door to gather that info for each household. (I once worked for the Census.)When someone asserts this, it’s obvious that they’re just making it up as they go along, which makes everything else they assert highly suspect. Of course, that’s long been the case with Sharon Rondeau, .

    >

    You’re not thinking birther enough.
    Their reasoning goes like “by implementing lax laws/practices inviting massive immigration fraud, Hawaii tried to pimp their resident number, as such practices would draw lots of illegal aliens to the state”.

    It’s just funny to watch them go so far down the rabbit hole not even the pope could make the general public pay attention to such crap. Just like Dr Kate’s cesspool where the “it’s all teh ebil NWO” meme is out in full effect.
    No more pretending to be sane people asking legitimate questions.

  67. avatar
    The Magic M May 19, 2011 at 1:53 pm #

    > You don’t think some people in state government could commit forgeries?

    You don’t think you might just be dreaming all of this and wake up tomorrow in the year 1576?
    You don’t think you might just be inside somebody else’s dream and be gone tomorrow when the guy wakes up?

    Remember Occam’s Razor does not say “the simplest explanation is the correct one”, but “out of several *equally probable* explanations, the simplest one is *usually* the correct one”.

    By now, to be consistent, the birfer version of things requires more people “in on the conspiracy” than the world population in 1800.

    And I’m not even talking about the other, even more overblown conspiracy theories many birfers believe in, some starting as far as 400 years ago.

  68. avatar
    richCares May 19, 2011 at 2:08 pm #

    “many birthers are actually mentally ill”
    correction:
    all birthers are actually mentally ill, hatng Obama causes brain damage, for proof read RIO’s posts, case closed!

  69. avatar
    Thrifty May 19, 2011 at 4:12 pm #

    The Magic M: You’re not thinking birther enough.
    Their reasoning goes like “by implementing lax laws/practices inviting massive immigration fraud, Hawaii tried to pimp their resident number, as such practices would draw lots of illegal aliens to the state”.

    There are 50 states in the Union. I would think that a series of islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean would be the *least* likely target for illegal immigrants.

  70. avatar
    Majority Will May 19, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    Thrifty: There are 50 states in the Union.I would think that a series of islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean would be the *least* likely target for illegal immigrants.

    I would check them for gills and fins.

  71. avatar
    misha May 19, 2011 at 4:57 pm #

    Majority Will: I would check them for gills and fins.

    Fins and scales makes them kosher.

  72. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 19, 2011 at 5:26 pm #

    misha: The Hebrew alphabet is based on the Greek alphabet:

    aleph, bet, gimel, daled
    alpha, beta, gamma, delta

    Actually, not quite. Both Hebrew and Greek alphabets stem from the ancient Phoenecian alphabet, so they the two alphabets are essentially like cousins with a common grandparent. Though Greek is a step closer to Phoenecian. Like this:

    Phoenician —-> Greek
    Phoenician —-> Aramaic ——-> Hebrew

    (We now return to our regular programming).

  73. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 19, 2011 at 10:29 pm #

    misha: Fins and scales makes them kosher.

    So birther logic would go:

    Sea creatures without scales and fins are abomination
    Obama is an abomination
    Therefore, Obama is a sea creature.

  74. avatar
    Stanislaw May 19, 2011 at 10:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So birther logic would go:

    Sea creatures without scales and fins are abomination
    Obama is an abomination
    Therefore, Obama is a sea creature.

    Well, no one has ever confirmed that Obama isn’t a sea creature.

  75. avatar
    Majority Will May 19, 2011 at 10:40 pm #

    Stanislaw: Well, no one has ever confirmed that Obama isn’t a sea creature.


    I know someone who has heard of Jacques Cousteau. Let’s call him in as an expert in marine biology to offer an expert opinion.

  76. avatar
    misha May 20, 2011 at 2:28 am #

    Expelliarmus: Actually, not quite. Both Hebrew and Greek alphabets stem from the ancient Phoenecian alphabet, so they the two alphabets are essentially like cousins with a common grandparent. Though Greek is a step closer to Phoenecian. Like this:Phoenician —-> GreekPhoenician —-> Aramaic ——-> Hebrew (We now return to our regular programming).

    Thank you. I stand corrected. My knowledge of Greek is from signs I saw in the Middle East.

  77. avatar
    misha May 20, 2011 at 2:34 am #

    Majority Will: I know someone who has heard of Jacques Cousteau. Let’s call him in as an expert in marine biology to offer an expert opinion.

    Or call in Jethro Tull, and go over the “Aqualung” lyrics.

  78. avatar
    Lancelot Link May 20, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    Here’s convincing proof that Obama is, indeed, a sea creature.

    http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01106/child-sea_1106771i.jpg
    http://blindie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/obama_ocean.jpg

  79. avatar
    Majority Will May 21, 2011 at 6:04 am #

    MichaelN:
    Ooooops. “citizenwells”

    The credibility level of shadow chasing hero, Citizen Wells:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20040805202605/http://www.bigfoot-sasquatch.com/aboutus.html

    Oops, indeed.

  80. avatar
    The Magic M May 21, 2011 at 6:10 am #

    > Ooooops.

    That’s exactly the kind of crap to be expected from a birther. Playing word games like a child.

    (In kindergarten, it was customary for kids to ask “Bist du Mitglied?” which means “Are you a member?” but can also be understood as “Bist du mit Glied?” meaning “Do you have a penis?”. So answering the “Are you a member” interpretation with “no” immediately yielded a sneering reply “so you don’t have a penis then?”. That’s the level of word games the birfers have become famous for.)

  81. avatar
    misha May 21, 2011 at 7:36 am #

    The Magic M: Playing word games like a child.

    I once met a fellow who did not like Jews, so I made a comment about his sophistication. I asked him “was machst du pferd?”

  82. avatar
    The Magic M May 21, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    I don’t get it. 🙁

  83. avatar
    Obsolete May 21, 2011 at 6:10 pm #

    As kids, we would ask someone to hold their tongue and say “I was born on a pirate ship”. You could then tease the kid for saying what sounded more like “I was born on a pile of Sh!t”.

    Yes, birther intellect at its finest.

  84. avatar
    misha May 21, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    misha: I once met a fellow who did not like Jews, so I made a comment about his sophistication. I asked him “was machst du pferd?”

    The Magic M: I don’t get it.

    I was making an allusion that he rode a horse, instead of driving a car – that he was a peasant.