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Two documents from Kenya?

Here are two documents allegedly from Kenya that arrived in my in basket this morning. The appeared in WorldNetDaily. Folks here have left a number of useful comments.

It is my personal view that they are fakes. They don’t pass the smell test. Evidence-based analysis is always best, but sometimes you just have to ask why. Why would the government of Kenya write a letter to the US confessing that their vital records system is in such a mess they cannot conclusively answer the question? Why would the US Ambassador have any reason to ask about a presidential candidate’s place of birth? Why would a classified internal document from Kenya end up on WorldNetDaily instead of a locked file cabinet where it belongs? Where’s the provenance?

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196 Responses to Two documents from Kenya?

  1. avatar
    The Magic M May 11, 2011 at 9:14 am #

    But it’s easy to guess – “classified” and “confidential” documents that probably reference a Kenyan birth for Obama (what else?).
    More fodder for the gullible conspiracy believers.

    In the right-wing scene in my country, they’ve been circulating a “top secret” document that allegedly confirms the right-wing conspiracy claim that there is an even “topper secreter” document that every German chancellor has to sign after inauguration, effectively conceding control over German politics to the evil NWO, represented by the evil USA.
    (The document has been debunked as a forgery right from the start, attributed to an obviously idiotic use of classification catchphrases, e.g. a “to be filed under: …” notice whereas the document says “this needs to be destroyed after reading” and suchlike.)

    So it was only a matter of time until your wingnuts made up the same stuff as our wingnuts. 😉

  2. avatar
    The Magic M May 11, 2011 at 9:20 am #

    Ah, here you go – no wonder the source is again WND…

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=297273

  3. avatar
    The Magic M May 11, 2011 at 9:28 am #

    Actually that’s another typical conspiracy spoof.

    Somehow whatever they write, either as themselves or when impersonating someone else, is so utterly vague and unspecific, it makes you wonder how they get anything done.

    Just feast your eyes on a line like “Further, numerous intelligence reports have have suggested he might have been born in Mombasa […]”.

    This is exactly the vague hearsay drivel you’d expect from a birther, not from a government employee in an official letter.

    “Intelligence reports”, by whom? “Suggested”? Based on what data if allegedly, as the letter further purports, “the information we […] have is that some documents have been removed […] or are missing […]”?

    Besides, what interest would Kenyan intelligence have on the birthplace of a US presidential candidate? It’s not exactly like it would be a *problem* for Kenya.

  4. avatar
    The Magic M May 11, 2011 at 9:32 am #

    Oh, and lookie the coincidence:

    “After questioning, the two were taken to the office of the Permanent Secretary, Mr Emmanuel Kisombe, and from there through the basement to a car in which they were driven to the house where Dr Corsi had been staying in Runda for verification of his passport and visa before they were escorted to the airport.”

    Source: http://www.politicalarticles.net/blog/tag/emmanuel-kisombe/

    Is this Jerome Corsi getting back at the guy who threw him out of Kenya?

  5. avatar
    Loren May 11, 2011 at 9:43 am #

    Here’s what stood out to me in the Kenyan letter story:

    – First, remember the last time WND got secret documents from Kenya.

    – Nowhere in the article does it say how these documents were obtained, or from who. Not even the old standby of anonymous officials who fear retribution. It just says “Documents obtained by WND.”

    – The article even hedges itself in the second paragraph: “Two letters purportedly written by Kenya’s immigration secretary…”

    – It’ll be interesting to see if this is in the book. If it’s not, then it means he didn’t have these documents prior to late April. And if he’s suddenly obtained them in the last two weeks, well, that’s quite a bombshell to drop into his lap out of nowhere.

    – And what may interest me the most, and which makes me the most suspicious of the authenticity of the July letter, is the reference to Coast Provincial General Hospital. Nobody, and I mean *nobody*, in Birtherism was talking online about that hospital until October, after Berg had included mention of it in his September request for admissions (it was not in his August complaint). There was virtually no discussion of Mombasa prior to July 4, as that tidbit was started by Wayne Madsen but didn’t gain steam until Berg’s complaint.

  6. avatar
    Bovril May 11, 2011 at 10:07 am #

    Having read these pieces of poo, one asks how and why a civil service mandarin, brought up in the inhereted British system would have that tortured the grammar of the English language so comprehensively?

  7. avatar
    AnotherBird May 11, 2011 at 10:39 am #

    Both documents fail the sniff test. In time all the error will be disassemble.

    An interesting find is that “Jerome Corsi, the WorldNetDaily writer” was deported from Kenya on Tuesday October 7, 2008 after a meeting with Permanent Secretary, Mr Emmanuel Kisombe.

    http://www.politicalarticles.net/blog/tag/emmanuel-kisombe/

    However, the document dated October 28, 2008 has some strange grammatical errors.

  8. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) May 11, 2011 at 10:40 am #

    Bovril: Having read these pieces of poo, one asks how and why a civil service mandarin, brought up in the inhereted British system would have that tortured the grammar of the English language so comprehensively?

    The birthers show their streaks again in the creation of the document. This is how they think the Kenyans must speak, probably based on all the scam emails they’ve gotten

  9. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 11, 2011 at 10:45 am #

    Loren: – It’ll be interesting to see if this is in the book. If it’s not, then it means he didn’t have these documents prior to late April. And if he’s suddenly obtained them in the last two weeks, well, that’s quite a bombshell to drop into his lap out of nowhere.

    I’ll be shocked if everything that WND spews this week IS NOT in the book – this is all publicity – probably long planned for the book’s release and now a desperate attempt to pretend that the book still has relevance.

  10. avatar
    The Magic M May 11, 2011 at 11:00 am #

    Not sure if this is relevant, but Google Books shows a reference to a “Lady Grigg Maternity Hospital” in Mombasa in 1966, not a “Lady Grigg Maternity Wing at Coast Provincial General Hospital”:

    http://books.google.de/books?id=oeu6KbJgn8UC&lpg=PA211&ots=Gv6NW6MvJC&dq=%22lady%20grigg%20maternity%22%20-obama&pg=PA211#v=onepage&q=%22lady%20grigg%20maternity%22%20-obama&f=false

  11. avatar
    Critical Thinker May 11, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    If I were Barack Obama and I wanted to provide convincing evidence that I was not born in Kenya, I would be thrilled to be able to present letters from the Kenyan Ministry of State for Immigration and Registration of Persons stating that they searched for but were not able to locate a Kenyan birth certificate for me and that they have not found any evidence of any kind of a cover-up associated with my alleged Kenyan birth. But, Obama doesn’t have to do that now because WND has done it for him!!

  12. avatar
    richCares May 11, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    here’s an intersting comment on it by “Turning The Scale”
    http://turningthescale.net/?p=486

  13. avatar
    Critical Thinker May 11, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    The Magic M:

    In the right-wing scene in my country, they’ve been circulating a “top secret” document that allegedly confirms the right-wing conspiracy claim that there is an even “topper secreter” document that every German chancellor has to sign after inauguration, effectively conceding control over German politics to the evil NWO, represented by the evil USA.
    (The document has been debunked as a forgery right from the start, attributed to an obviously idiotic use of classification catchphrases, e.g. a “to be filed under: …” notice whereas the document says “this needs to be destroyed after reading” and suchlike.)

    So it was only a matter of time until your wingnuts made up the same stuff as our wingnuts.

    Interesting. There must be two very different New World Orders out there. Here is the U.S., our NWO is decidedly un-American. I guess we should adopt the German version since it is pro-America. Mr. Soros is going to be very upset about this.

  14. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 11, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    Critical Thinker: Interesting. There must be two very different New World Orders out there. Here is the U.S., our NWO is decidedly un-American. I guess we should adopt the German version since it is pro-America. Mr. Soros is going to be very upset about this.

    What makes you think that Soros didn’t plan it this way? BWA-ha-ha-HA-ha!

  15. avatar
    todd May 11, 2011 at 11:39 am #

    Another “official” Kenyan document using the American date format.

  16. avatar
    Tarrant May 11, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    Birthers are responding exactly the way one would expect – saying that the fact that the document states that a birth record of him was not found in Kenya is further evidence that he must have been born there, much like the existence of a record in Hawaii is, to them, evidence that he wasn’t. Of course Tim Adams’ statement that there was no record is also evidence he wasn’t…so…yeah.

    It’s standard conspiracy stuff. “Evidence” in your favor is real. Evidence that disproves the conspiracy is simply more evidence in favor of the conspiracy being even more pervasive. Thus nothing can ever be evidence against – it’s either for, and real, or against, and All Part Of The Conspiracy.

    That said, this document cannot be real. For one, the word “Classified” at the top. Classified information, in any country I have seen, doesn’t say “Classfied” at the top and otherwise look and act like a normal document. This makes me think, like many WND fakes, of someone who has no idea what real classification means and thinks it’s like movies where a top secret document is simply a regular one with a small “Top secret” written at the top.

  17. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 11, 2011 at 11:46 am #

    todd:
    Another “official” Kenyan document using the American date format.

    If these are forgeries then Farah and Corsi are beyond stupid – I think the article from ‘Turning the Scale’ linked above has this one right…

  18. avatar
    Welsh Dragon May 11, 2011 at 12:20 pm #

    The Magic M: Not sure if this is relevant, but Google Books shows a reference to a “Lady Grigg Maternity Hospital” in Mombasa in 1966, not a “Lady Grigg Maternity Wing at Coast Provincial General Hospital”:

    Probably a red herring – there’s also a reference to the “Lady Grigg Maternity Wing” in Kenya’s Hansard in 1987:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=jK_FBj46LB0C&pg=PT219&lpg=PT219&dq=%22lady+grigg+maternity+wing%22+-obama&source=bl&ots=izR8UAphb0&sig=CrzGKQ9G1rwNBeEvBLy5Uk7KfH4&hl=en&ei=6LXKTbsFx-_SAaHfqNgH&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22lady%20grigg%20maternity%20wing%22%20-obama&f=false

    BTW Lady Griggs was the wife of the governor 1925-1930 and was very active in promoting improved maternity care – training midwifes, establishing maternity hospitals etc

  19. avatar
    Daniel May 11, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

    Slartibartfast: todd:
    Another “official” Kenyan document using the American date format.

    If these are forgeries then Farah and Corsi are beyond stupid – I think the article from Turning the Scale’ linked above has this one right…

    I don’y think they’re even trying to convince the regular populace any more. I suspect they’re just pumping out what they can to make sure that at least the hardcore birthers buy the book. After all it’s already in the half-price bin before it’s even released. There’s a real danger they’ll lose a whack load of money on the deal.

  20. avatar
    Daniel May 11, 2011 at 12:47 pm #

    I wonder if any Birther ever stops to wonder how these “classified” documents never seem to be found by the professional journalism establishments like CNN or the NY Times, with their huge research staff and budgets. Yet a third rate conspiracy rag like World Nut Daily who flies their laughingstock Corsi over (probably economy) somehow gets access to all the secrets of a foreign regime, even as he’s being deported.

    Birthers have no “waydaminnit” setting on their follow-me collars

  21. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 11, 2011 at 12:48 pm #

    Daniel: I don’y think they’re even trying to convince the regular populace any more. I suspect they’re just pumping out what they can to make sure that at least the hardcore birthers buy the book. After all it’s already in the half-price bin before it’s even released. There’s a real danger they’ll lose a whack load of money on the deal.

    Absolutely – they’re trying to do as much damage control as possible, but I doubt they would forge letters from Kenyan officials (and I don’t see a particularly strong motive to forge those letters specifically).

  22. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 11, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    richCares:
    here’s an intersting comment on it by “Turning The Scale”
    http://turningthescale.net/?p=486

    Daniel,

    Check this out as a hypothetical scenario where these documents are legitimate.

  23. avatar
    gorefan May 11, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

    The October letter starts with:

    “We have instructions from the Head of Civil Service and Secretary to the Cabinet carrying out directions of the Cabinent sub-committee on Security and Foreign Relations to investigate”

    Why doesn’t it name the “Head of Civil Service”? As in “We have instructions from James Obuto, the Head of Civil Service”. And is that the correct title “Head”?

  24. avatar
    Fred May 11, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    So when is anonymous going to DoS WND so that the wingnuts can claim it is the CIA trying to stop them from revealing this giant conspiracy that the CIA is involved in?

    At least a DoS of WND would be entertaining. This whole pulling fake documents out of your arse business is getting boring.

  25. avatar
    G May 11, 2011 at 1:00 pm #

    Tarrant: That said, this document cannot be real. For one, the word “Classified” at the top. Classified information, in any country I have seen, doesn’t say “Classfied” at the top and otherwise look and act like a normal document. This makes me think, like many WND fakes, of someone who has no idea what real classification means and thinks it’s like movies where a top secret document is simply a regular one with a small “Top secret” written at the top.

    I really think these people get all their ideas by watching fictional movies & TV shows…

  26. avatar
    NBC May 11, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    I bet the documents are legit, and they point to no evidence of a Kenya birth, although there is a hint that some documents may have gone missing. But how does one tell between absence of evidence or absence of something that never was in the first place?

  27. avatar
    NBC May 11, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    More interestingly, how did Lucas Smith get a copy of a certificate that did not or no longer exist?

  28. avatar
    Loren May 11, 2011 at 1:26 pm #

    Slartibartfast: I’ll be shocked if everything that WND spews this week IS NOT in the book – this is all publicity – probably long planned for the book’s release and now a desperate attempt to pretend that the book still has relevance.

    Possibly, but at the very end of the article, Corsi writes “Ranneberger was not immediately available because he is in the process of returning to the U.S.”

    Ranneberger’s tenure in Kenya ended just in the last couple of weeks. If Corsi had these documents well enough in advance to include them in his book, then why wait until *now* to attempt to contact Ranneberger?

  29. avatar
    Rickey May 11, 2011 at 1:29 pm #

    Both letters appear to be fakes. I found two real letters from the Kenyan government, Note that both use the day-month-year format for the dates.

    http://arochakenya.wildlifedirect.org/files/2010/08/100709_NEMA_rejection_letter_p1.jpg

    http://blog.worldreader.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/PS-Letter-Kenya-4c.jpg

    It’s also difficult to believe that Mr. Kisombe would use the word “efficacy” when he clearly means “accuracy” or “authenticity.”

    And “Turning the Scale” asks a good question – where is the supposed July 1 letter from the ambassador?

  30. avatar
    Benji Franklin May 11, 2011 at 1:31 pm #

    Here’s page two of the first document:

    “Consequently the assets of the estate, in the amount of $15,000,000.00 (U.S.) are frozen at the bank near you for 3 more weeks. I am contacting you because I need someone to sign for the payout of these funds. I will split the money with you in consideration of your assistance. All you must do, is first, using your own funds, purchase at least 1000 copies of the new best selling book, “Where’s the Birth Certificate.” When you have accomplished that, hold your left hand up very high and make (and hold indefinitely) your lips forming the round opening of an exaggerated, “Oh!” with your mouth. A bank messenger pushing a peddlers cart will contact you and complete the dispersal of the funds within a few minutes. I trust you to send me my share at an address of your choosing.

    Sincerely,
    You know who

  31. avatar
    Catbit May 11, 2011 at 1:32 pm #

    Critical Thinker:
    If I were Barack Obama and I wanted to provide convincing evidence that I was not born in Kenya, I would be thrilled to be able to present letters from the Kenyan Ministry of State for Immigration and Registration of Persons stating that they searched for but were not able to locate a Kenyan birth certificate for me and that they have not found any evidence of any kind of a cover-up associated with my alleged Kenyan birth. But, Obama doesn’t have to do that now because WND has done it for him!!

    If I were President Obama and I wanted to provide convincing evidence that I was not born in Kenya, I would release some form of official document from the authority having jurisdiction of the place where I was born, make sure it is signed and has some sort of official non-duplicatable marking, and perhaps words that mean the document is to be legally accepted as proof. If only he would release some sort of document like this, he could put this whole thing to rest!

  32. avatar
    Daniel May 11, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Absolutely – they’re trying to do as much damage control as possible, but I doubt they would forge letters from Kenyan officials (and I don’t see a particularly strong motive to forge those letters specifically).

    I don’t think Farah would actually do the forging. He’s always veeeeeeerry careful t make sure he has plausible deniability with the crap he puts out.

    The motive, as I see it, is contained the veiled references to documents missing or tampered with, followed by the “official assurance” that there is “no evidence” of tampering.

    To reasonable people that is simply the end of it. To conspiracy nutbars, any official assurance screams COVERUP!!!!

    Every “AHA” moment a birther has is another book sale for World Nut Daily.

  33. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 11, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    Loren: Possibly, but at the very end of the article, Corsi writes “Ranneberger was not immediately available because he is in the process of returning to the U.S.”

    Ranneberger’s tenure in Kenya ended just in the last couple of weeks.If Corsi had these documents well enough in advance to include them in his book, then why wait until *now* to attempt to contact Ranneberger?

    I agree that any responsible journalist would have contacted him (before finishing the book, in fact…). What was your point?

    I don’t know whether or not these documents are real, but I’m guessing that either way it will become clear in the next few days and tell us how far Farah and Corsi were willing to go to prop up their collapsing book sales…

  34. avatar
    Daniel May 11, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Daniel,

    Check this out as a hypothetical scenario where these documents are legitimate.

    I agree that scenario is plausible as hypothetical.

    I’m still skeptical of anything World Nut Daily finds before any of the real journalism establishments do.

  35. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion May 11, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    todd:
    Another “official” Kenyan document using the American date format.

    Yeah, that was my first thought. Most places that were British colonies, protectorates, or Commonwealth nations use the day/month/year format rather than the month/day/year format most used in the US.

  36. avatar
    richCares May 11, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

    these dfake documents are causing great excitement over at obamareleaseyourrecords, they are just giddy but don’t know why. Their bathroom walls have many white spots on them, a typical birther reation to excitement.

  37. avatar
    Jody May 11, 2011 at 3:18 pm #

    It would seem a simple matter of emailing the address provided on the letterhead to ask if they are real documents. If these are leaked documents, the Kenyan Government will want to know who leaked them.

  38. avatar
    Critical Thinker May 11, 2011 at 3:20 pm #

    These documents don’t have LAYERS so they must be real.
    LAYERS=fake. NO LAYERS=real.
    Isn’t this how it works? Or is that just for certificates of live birth?

  39. avatar
    Rickey May 11, 2011 at 3:26 pm #

    Here are links to two more apparently authentic letters from Kenyan government agencies. Note that both use the day-month-year format for the dates.

    http://www.philemon.org/getfile/736e6fd0-ebf3-47b3-986f-4b0af22201dc/Appreciation-letter-from-Kenya-Prisons-Service.aspx

    http://kileva.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/img1983.jpg

    Note also that these are written in nearly impeccable English, in contrast to the two which were “found” by WND.

  40. avatar
    Gregory May 11, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    Daniel:

    The motive, as I see it, is contained the veiled references to documents missing or tampered with, followed by the “official assurance” that there is “no evidence” of tampering.

    I agree. It would absurd for an official letter even to mention the possibility of tampering. Imagine if the Hawaiian Department of Health had announced that there was no evidence that Obama’s birth records had been tampered with – as if tampering were a routine possibility. These letters are forgeries – and written by someone one with a low opinion of third world countries, I would add.

  41. avatar
    Judge Mental May 11, 2011 at 4:13 pm #

    Patrick McKinnion: Yeah, that was my first thought. Most places that were British colonies, protectorates, or Commonwealth nations use the day/month/year format rather than the month/day/year format most used in the US.

    Sorry guys, can’t agree.

    When the name of the month (as opposed to just a number) is being written, especially in formal letters, it is very common for the Uk and countries influenced by the Uk to write say ‘May 11, 2011′ instead of ’11 May, 2011’. It is only when the date is expressed as numbers that dd/mm/yy format is exclusively used.

    Furthermore I note that in these letters the dates are actually written ‘4th’ instead of just ‘4’ and ’22nd’ instead of just ’22’ which is very much a Uk practice not usually followed in USA.

    I’d say that, if anything, the dating format used actually tends more towards supporting them having been written by someone influenced by Uk practices than the opposite.

    That is not say the letters are genuine. Of that I have no idea nor strong opinion. I’m only commenting upon the dating format aspects.

  42. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) May 11, 2011 at 4:28 pm #

    I googled the CID director’s name just to check it out. Every instance I’ve come across his name is listed as Simon Gatiba Karanja. Also he died in 2010. I bet birthers are now going to jump on this for evience of a conspiracy and coverup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sQkPY00l2Q

  43. avatar
    Rickey May 11, 2011 at 4:53 pm #

    Judge Mental: Sorry guys, can’t agree.

    When the name of the month (as opposed to just a number) is being written, especially in formal letters, it is very common for the Uk and countries influenced by the Uk to write say ‘May 11, 2011′ instead of ’11 May, 2011′. It is only when the date is expressed as numbers that dd/mm/yy format is exclusively used.

    The four letters from Kenyan government agencies which I linked to earlier all have the name of the month spelled out, and all four are in day-month-year format.

    I have yet to find a letter or memo from the Kenyan government which uses the month-day-year format.

  44. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 11, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    Rickey: Both letters appear to be fakes. I found two real letters from the Kenyan government, Note that both use the day-month-year format for the dates.

    http://arochakenya.wildlifedirect.org/files/2010/08/100709_NEMA_rejection_letter_p1.jpg

    http://blog.worldreader.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/PS-Letter-Kenya-4c.jpg

    Good find. Even more significant than the dates, look at the letter formatting — you’ve found 2 letters issued from different departments in different years.. Both have a prominent “REF” identifier on the left side of the page, with date on the same line, far right (reflected in day-month- year order, with the month fully spelled out.

    That suggests that there is a standard template used for all correspondence from Kenya government offices. Also note that in all samples, the government logo/seal appears ABOVE the title of the I have found another example:

    http://kileva.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/img1983.jpg

  45. avatar
    Welsh Dragon May 11, 2011 at 5:14 pm #

    The date format is certainly not conclusive by any means just suggestive,

    As well as the letters already quoted, press releases and tender invitations from that ministry seem be dated in the format ##th Month year. although some header/footers seem to Month ## year.

    With respect to Judge Mental I would not describe Month ## Year as very common in the UK – not uncommon yes but very common is overstating it.

    Conversly, it not uncommon to see Month ##th Year in the US as a quick google search would confirm. eg

    http://www.fightthebite.net/download/minutes/July_2009_Special-Meeting_Minutes.pdf

    Maybe it’s because I’m a brit living in the US that I notice these things.

  46. avatar
    US Citizen May 11, 2011 at 5:21 pm #

    This has Lucas written all over it.

  47. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 11, 2011 at 5:27 pm #

    Also, from what I can find online, Kisombe’s position administratively falls under the Office of the President — whereas the letterhead on the WND/Corsi letters is designated “Office of the Vice President”. Kisombe was clearly working for the President (not Vice President) in 2008. See http://www.afdevinfo.com/htmlreports/peo/peo_10197.html

  48. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 11, 2011 at 5:41 pm #

    Here’s a Kenya government organization document going back to 2007 showing administrative organization, clearly showing that Kisombe’s job is under the Office of the President, not Vice-President:
    http://www.communication.go.ke/documents/Government%20Reorganization.doc

  49. avatar
    Welsh Dragon May 11, 2011 at 7:23 pm #

    Expelliarmus:
    Here’s a Kenya government organization document going back to 2007 showing administrative organization, clearly showing that Kisombe’s job is under the Office of the President, not Vice-President:
    http://www.communication.go.ke/documents/Government%20Reorganization.doc

    I think that may be misleading – a new coalition government was formed early in 2008 and this 2010 source clearly puts him and the MIRP in the Office of the Vice President and Minister of Home Affairs. (IIRC In Kenya the president designates one of his ministers to be vice-president)

    http://www.statehousekenya.go.ke/government/ovp.htm

  50. avatar
    NBC May 11, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    It’s fascinating how the various sources contradict eachother. There are two sites that point to the ministry of immigration, one under the veep, the other under the president.

    Given the best data so far, I believe it is under the OOP at this moment.

  51. avatar
    NBC May 11, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    http://www.immigration.go.ke/

    At independence, the Department was placed in the Ministry of Home Affairs and was later transferred to the Office of the President (OOP), then Ministry of Constitutional Affairs in the early eighties and later back to the Office of the President. In the year 2003, the department was moved to the Ministry of Home Affairs. In the year 2005, the Department reverted to OOP and was placed in the new Ministry of Immigration and Registration of Persons.

    http://www.mirp.go.ke/

    Office of the vice president… Two very similar sites.

  52. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 11, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    1) Why would the Kenyan government disclose to the United States that it has no idea whether it’s record system has integrity? They wouldn’t.

    2) How would anyone get hold of these supposedly confidential documents? Unlikely that they could. Can you spell “provenance?”

    Throw in the date format problem and this is pretty much a slam dunk fake.

  53. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) May 11, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    NBC:
    http://www.immigration.go.ke/

    http://www.mirp.go.ke/

    Office of the vice president… Two very similar sites.

    The question is when did it switch from falling under the Vice President from the President? The letters say they were written in 2008

  54. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 11, 2011 at 8:36 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    1) Why would the Kenyan government disclose to the United States that it has no idea whether it’s record system has integrity? They wouldn’t.

    2) How would anyone get hold of these supposedly confidential documents? Unlikely that they could. Can you spell “provenance?”

    Throw in the date format problem and this is pretty much a slam dunk fake.

    So, given that these are in all probability fakes, the question becomes: are they effective fakes? By which I mean, will they sell a lot of books? I’m guessing that the answer will be no…

  55. avatar
    NBC May 11, 2011 at 8:36 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): The question is when did it switch from falling under the Vice President from the President? The letters say they were written in 2008

    So far I have consistently seen 2005

  56. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 11, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Absolutely – they’re trying to do as much damage control as possible, but I doubt they would forge letters from Kenyan officials (and I don’t see a particularly strong motive to forge those letters specifically).

    No, WND wouldn’t forge the letters, but they would uncritically publish someone else’s forgery and package it to look like news. Think “supermarket tabloid.”

  57. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 11, 2011 at 8:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: No, WND wouldn’t forge the letters, but they would uncritically publish someone else’s forgery and package it to look like news. Think “supermarket tabloid.”

    Yeah, I just think this is a pretty weak forgery (both in the technical sense as it turns out and in the sense that it isn’t evidence of much of anything…). Corsi and Farah must be gnawing out their own livers in frustration since President Obama released the LFBC – and this is the best they can come up with? I just don’t think this is going to sell many books…

  58. avatar
    NBC May 11, 2011 at 8:52 pm #

    Was Corsi ‘set up’ or is it a little ‘revenge’? It was Kisombe’s office which threw him out of the country… Fascinating…

    After questioning, the two were taken to the office of the Permanent Secretary, Mr Emmanuel Kisombe, and from there through the basement to a car in which they were driven to the house where Dr Corsi had been staying in Runda for verification of his passport and visa before they were escorted to the airport.

  59. avatar
    Rickey May 11, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    I have found three more images of documents issued by the Kenyan government, and all of them use the day-month-year format for the date.

    http://ketwangi.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/slide1.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iocx3LlBmcE/S8vg_IN4hLI/AAAAAAAAAhc/ryVKSJzJs3g/s1600/Speech+1.bmp

    http://kenyastockholm.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/embassy-letter2.jpg

    I’m convinced that the two letters published by WND are fakes. Not only are the dates in the wrong format, the awkward syntax in the letters is inconsistent with what I am seeing in real official letters and documents.

  60. avatar
    Rickey May 11, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Yeah, I just think this is a pretty weak forgery (both in the technical sense as it turns out and in the sense that it isn’t evidence of much of anything…).Corsi and Farah must be gnawing out their own livers in frustration since President Obama released the LFBC – and this is the best they can come up with?I just don’t think this is going to sell many books…

    Corsi’s book has now dropped to #172 on Amazon.

  61. avatar
    El Diablo Negro May 11, 2011 at 9:20 pm #

    NBC: THis one shows Thursday 25,…

    Day-Month-Year is still consistent though with the documents. I never realized how hard it is forge documents perfectly…there always seems to be one detail that is missed..or added.

  62. avatar
    NBC May 11, 2011 at 9:22 pm #

    Very true. It’s the minor details that trip one up.

  63. avatar
    gorefan May 11, 2011 at 9:35 pm #

    El Diablo Negro: I never realized how hard it is forge documents perfectly

    The key to being a good forger, and Lucas Smith can probably address this better, is research, research, research.

  64. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 11, 2011 at 9:39 pm #

    gorefan: The key to being a good forger, and Lucas Smith can probably address this better, is research, research, research.

    Is there any evidence that Mr. Smith knows anything about being a good forger?

  65. avatar
    gorefan May 11, 2011 at 9:53 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Is there any evidence that Mr. Smith knows anything about being a good forger?

    Oh, I think, he knows how to be a good forger, he’s just not good at it. Like, I can study Rembrandt’s painting techniques but will never be able to copy them.

  66. avatar
    Welsh Dragon May 11, 2011 at 10:01 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): The question is when did it switch from falling under the Vice President from the President? The letters say they were written in 2008

    2008 would be a good candidate – a coalition deal was signed in April and my understanding is that part of the deal was that the president’s position was weakened. He’d previously been head of state and head of government but from 2008 there’s also been a prime minister.

  67. avatar
    Majority Will May 11, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    gorefan: Oh, I think, he knows how to be a good forger, he’s just not good at it.Like, I can study Rembrandt’s painting techniques but will never be able to copy them.

    And then some forgers will just meth it up.

  68. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 11, 2011 at 10:11 pm #

    Just to muddy the waters, here is a real document from Kenya:

    http://www.identity.go.ke/request_Rfp.pdf

    I found this looking for something else.

  69. avatar
    sponson May 11, 2011 at 10:14 pm #

    Birther-friendly US Senator Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma has just stated conclusively that Osama Bin Laden is dead. It’s a sad day for those that “believe” any conspiracy thrown at them. Of course, Inhofe has still not yet admitted that the President was born in the United States, even now.

  70. avatar
    Welsh Dragon May 11, 2011 at 10:23 pm #

    The Kenyan Ministry of Immigration and Registration of Persons has been under the Office of the Vice President and Minister for Home Affairs since May 2008.

    Presidential Circular 1/2008 reorganised the Government after the formation of the coalition. A navigable version of the circular can be found via::

    http://www.communication.go.ke/media.asp?id=635

  71. avatar
    Whatever4 May 11, 2011 at 11:14 pm #

    Emmanuel Kisombe is on Facebook, if someone wants to ask if these are legit…

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Emmanuel-Kisombe-Mwatibo/198216120193506

  72. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 12:24 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    Hello Dr. Conspiracy,

    Your blog reports are semi-objective but your regular crowd of cronies that post here appear (with perhaps one or two exceptions, one of which might be the poster that goes by ‘G’.) to lack the ability to think objectively. Its not my intention to insult your followers; I’m just stating that they really and truly rarely ever have a clue about anything that they are discussing.

    At any rate, below is a link to a PDF which contains several photographs that I have taken of newspaper that I own and have in my personal possession.

    The newspaper is the ‘Mombasa Times’ and is an edition that was published on February 17th, 1944.

    I’ve taken pictures of 5 different segments (2 additional photos are close ups, making a total of 7 photos) of the newspaper that which display the same Month / Day / Year date format that is displayed in the two letters from Kenya that your blog report exhibits. The PDF of the photographs can be viewed at my scribd.com account (Patriot1980).

    Hopefully your followers that post on your will blog will be adult enough to accept that they made a mistake and stop bickering about the date format on the two letters from Kenya that are being discussed in your blog report.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/55235621/1944-MombasaTimes-newspaper-February-17-1944-Date-format-Month-Day-Year

  73. avatar
    G May 12, 2011 at 12:38 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Your blog reports are semi-objective but your regular crowd of cronies that post here appear (with perhaps one or two exceptions, one of which might be the poster that goes by G’.) to lack the ability to think objectively. Its not my intention to insult your followers; I’m just stating that they really and truly rarely ever have a clue about anything that they are discussing.

    If I’m reading this correctly, you just paid me a rare compliment. Thank You…I think.

  74. avatar
    gorefan May 12, 2011 at 12:43 am #

    Slartibartfast: Is there any evidence that Mr. Smith knows anything about being a good forger?

    You see, this what I mean, the guy, whatever else he may be, knows how to be a good forger. He has collected all these documents. He’s done his research.

    And the misspelling of Dr. Maganga is not unexpected. Here is the probable article where he got the wrong name.

    http://allafrica.com/stories/200906180705.html

    “We are still receiving more patients from various parts of the province who have been diagnosed with the ailment. However, we are doing everything possible to provide the necessary treatment needed,” Helton Maganga, chief administrator at the Coast Provincial General Hospital, the largest referral hospital in the province, told IRIN on 18 June.”

    This was published on June 18th, 2009, so it is understandable that he would use this name.

    You got to give the guy an A for effort, but it is in execution that he would get a low grade since the whole point of forgery is not to get caught.

  75. avatar
    Daniel May 12, 2011 at 1:05 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Hello Dr. Conspiracy,

    … your regular crowd of cronies that post here appear… to lack the ability to think objectively. Its not my intention to insult your followers; I’m just stating that they really and truly rarely ever have a clue about anything that they are discussing.

    And another Irony meter goes OFF THE SCALE!!!!

    Yeah I can see why you’d really want people to think that we don’t know what we’re talking about. Too bad that it’s your credibility, what with being a birther, AND a convicted forger, that is really on the ropes. Still…. desperate times….

    Lucas D. Smith:

    At any rate, below is a link to a PDF which contains several photographs that I have taken of newspaper that I own and have in my personal possession.

    The newspaper is the ‘Mombasa Times’ and is an edition that was published on February 17th, 1944.

    I’ve taken pictures of 5 different segments (2 additional photos are close ups, making a total of 7 photos) of the newspaper that which display the same Month / Day / Year date format that is displayed in the two letters from Kenya that your blog report exhibits.The PDF of the photographs can be viewed at my scribd.com account (Patriot1980).

    So let me get this straight…. no really…. you’re actually suggesting that a pdf of a newspaper from more than 60 years ago has any bearing at all on the date format used in present day Govt of Kenya correspondence. And you purport that this proves us wrong, even though we’ve come up with multiple present day documents that show differently.

    Well you have audacity, I’ll give you that.

    And no…. we’re not going to apologize for you or your lack of maturity any time soon.

  76. avatar
    gorefan May 12, 2011 at 1:14 am #

    Doc. C. Here is an off topic comment. i thought you might find this interesting what with all the talk about privacy laws.

    http://journal.ahima.org/2010/04/29/californian-sentenced-to-prison-for-hipaa-violation/

  77. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 12, 2011 at 1:15 am #

    gorefan: You see, this what I mean, the guy, whatever else he may be, knows how to be a good forger.He has collected all these documents. He’s done his research.

    And the misspelling of Dr. Maganga is not unexpected.Here is the probable article where he got the wrong name.

    http://allafrica.com/stories/200906180705.html

    “We are still receiving more patients from various parts of the province who have been diagnosed with the ailment. However, we are doing everything possible to provide the necessary treatment needed,” Helton Maganga, chief administrator at the Coast Provincial General Hospital, the largest referral hospital in the province, told IRIN on 18 June.”

    This was published on June 18th, 2009, so it is understandable that he would use this name.

    You got to give the guy an A for effort, but it is in execution that he would get a low grade since the whole point of forgery is not to get caught.

    To me, an ‘A’ effort would have been to check the name of the administrator when he was claiming to have been there (which he should have done at that time). If he’d done that, he wouldn’t have been using Dr. Mangana’s name in any case. Nor would he be doing any of the other 6 things I questioned him about… He obviously has no clue what would be evidence of the validity of his POSFKBC (such as evidence that he was actually in Kenya during the dates he claims…). In my opinion he is a completely inept forger both in theory and in practice.

  78. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 1:21 am #

    G: If I’m reading this correctly, you just paid me a rare compliment.Thank You…I think.

    It was a compliment. And you are welcome.

  79. avatar
    El Diablo Negro May 12, 2011 at 1:45 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: …I’m just stating that they really and truly rarely ever have a clue about anything that they are discussing…

    I may not be a master forger, but I have been a graphic artist for over 10 years using Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark Express. The most important thing we did before we published anything is have someone proofread (with a dictionary and thesaurus) the ad or column. It takes dedication to forge a document, but to single-handedly forge a document to pass the sniff test is where the fail is. Proofreading is a special skill, not everyone can do it….or wants to.

  80. avatar
    gorefan May 12, 2011 at 1:53 am #

    Slartibartfast: To me, an A’ effort would have been to check the name of the administrator when he was claiming to have been there (which he should have done at that time).

    I understand your point, probably it would have been better for him to date stamp the BC in June rather then Feb. and I’m sure that a least a portion of his research is after the fact when things started to go south.

    But I don’t think Coast General Hospital has a website so that research would have been difficult. And it’s not like he could go down to the Cedar Rapids Library and check out the Mombassa Times. And there probably were some time constrants and he needed to get the job done quickly. Make a quick buck. Afterall he didn’t know if the President would suddenly release his long form BC which as we have seen is the death knell for his forgery.

    And while he didn’t execute and he got caught, still life is a learning experience, so i’m sure his next forgeries will be better.

  81. avatar
    NBC May 12, 2011 at 2:05 am #

    So is Lucas going to explain how he found a document that was not found by the Kenyan authorities a year earlier?

    How much money did you spend on this work of art?

  82. avatar
    Lupin May 12, 2011 at 3:02 am #

    FWIW I worked for a couple of years in the UK in intl banking, and the letters don’t look to me as if they’d been written by a Brit or Brit-trained person; they look/sound more American to me.

  83. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 12, 2011 at 4:35 am #

    Another set of sample letters from a Kenya Permanent Secretary (Ministry of Transportation) — these reproduced in facsimile format in HTML, but appears to preserve the original letterhead.. Note characteristic “Ref” field on left side of page, “Date” field on the right. Day/Month/Year format.
    See: http://www.iana.org/reports/2002/ke-redelegation/kyungu-to-lynn-05aug02.html
    http://www.iana.org/reports/2002/ke-redelegation/kyungu-to-lynn-18oct02.html

    PDF, with letters from Office of Vice President, Ministry of Youth Affairs, at p. 20 of packet:
    http://www.unido.org/fileadmin/import/82084_REPORT_ON_MEETING_WITH_DEVELOPMENT_PARTNERS_NOVEMBER9th.pdf

    I think the missing “Ref” code on the Corsi letters is as telling as the badly formatted date.

    My guess is that when Corsi was expelled from Kenya, he was given a letter from the MIRP, basically telling him to get lost. With that he had a copy of the letterhead & an exemplar of Kisombe’s signature. I also think that the actually signature is a crude copy — there are significant inconsistencies between letter formation on the “July 4th” and the “October 22nd” signatures that would lead me to question authenticity. (Looks like someone trying to copy a characteristic E & K without paying very close attention to the other letters, and also messing up on the E the first time around.)

  84. avatar
    The Magic M May 12, 2011 at 5:08 am #

    > And “Turning the Scale” asks a good question – where is the supposed July 1 letter from the ambassador?

    I would assume that the US authorities would care a lot about someone forging a letter from a US ambassador – if you forge letters from Kenyan officials, US authorities couldn’t care less.

  85. avatar
    obsolete May 12, 2011 at 5:40 am #

    Lucas jumped in here to defend these latest (probably) forged Kenyan docs. Why? Will we see Lucas mount a vigorous defense of these like he did for his POSFKBC?
    Are these your babies, Lucas?

  86. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 5:49 am #

    El Diablo Negro: …

    gorefan: …

    Slartibartfast: …

    G: …

    Dr. Conspiracy:…

    First, to be clear, I didn’t forge the document.

    Second, I believe it is accurate to say, again, that most people (not everyone) here on this blog really and truly rarely ever have a clue about anything that they are discussing.

    People here are recycling old internet lore about:

    1. Helton/Heltan Maganga’s name (i.e., the spelling of).

    2. Helton/Heltan Maganga’s dates of tenure at CPGH.

    Most of you all, maybe all of you, are not familiar with life in Africa. I could talk for nights and days about Africa. I’ve loved Africa for since I was small boy. You people don’t have clue as to what you are talking about and every time that I try to explain things you just pretend (or maybe some of you, not all of you, are truly deficient mentally) that I have not explained.

    Forget your American ‘norms’ for a few minutes and stop trying to scrutinize Africa with your American values.

    Americans (especially white Americans) and western Europeans are obsessed with dates, times and records. Many foreign cultures, especially in Africa (also in Central and South America and many other places) don’t hold these same system of values and norms.

    The Swahili language is spelled out phonetically in Latin/Indo-European. As you know (at least I hope you do) that means that words and names are spelled out as they sound. Originally Swahili was a spoken language without a written form. Later it was spelled out phonetically in Arabic. Later it went to be phonetically spelled out in Latin/Indo-European. Names and words can be spelled out with different spellings. I’ve found this to be true everywhere that I have been in Africa.

    I really don’t understand what is so hard to understand about this.

    Take for example Mary/Merry Othigo. Her name is relevant here because she is the CPGH (Coast Province General Hospital) administrator that many of you want to believe was the ad on February 19, 2009. (Most of you have recycled this claim from reading random internet drivel and know nothing first hand about it.)

    What is the ‘correct’ spelling of her name?

    She currently works at Aga Khan hospital in Nairobi, Kenya. On the hospitals website her name is spelled, “Mary Othigo“.

    http://www.agakhanhospitals.org/email.asp?mailto=Dr%20Mary%20Othigo

    That same spelling can be found in medical reports, as well.

    However, most critics claims that here name is spelled, “Merry Othigo

    http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/dr-merry-jennifer-othigo/2b/778/934

    That same spelling can be found in medical reports, as well.

    Which spelling is ‘correct’?

    And if ‘Mary’ is ‘incorrect’ then why is the hospital not spelling it that way?

    Furthermore, and more importantly, if Aga Khan hospital can spell her Merry as “Mary” than can’t Coast Province General Hospital spell Heltan as “Helton”?

    Please take sometime to think about that before you start typing the first subtle insult or flimsy rebuttal that comes to your minds.

    Furthermore, please remember that I have always stated that I have NEVER seen or spoken with Dr. Maganga in my life. When I was at the CPGH (hospital) on February 19, 2009 I did not see or speak with Dr Maganga. I spoke with a female member of the administrative staff. This has always been my account from day one.

    Additionally, here is an interesting December 10, 2009 official report from Mombasa, Kenya:

    “SEXUAL AND GENDER BASED VIOLENCE: FIRST ANNUAL COAST POLICY CONFERENCE”

    You’ll find “Helton Maganga’ on pages 6, 19 and 21.

    You’ll find “Jennifer Othigo” on pages 2, 8

    You’ll find “Jane Othigo” on page 19. Since when is ‘Jane’ short for Jennifer?

    http://www.svri.org/coastpolicy.pdf

    I’d have to publish a short book if I wanted to cite all the medical reports and official Kenya medical websites that have many (yes, many) different spellings for Magaga’s name and Othigo’s name.

    As of today’s date Helton/Heltan Maganga has never weighed in regarding his name, tenure dates at the hospital or the birth certificate itself. You people can, if you’d like, scream from the top of your lungs and jump up and down in front of your computer all night and all day that he has but that still wont change the fact he hasn’t. The story about the ’email from Magana’ has been recycled, recycled and recycled by people like you, or most of you, who have little understanding of the original events and have chosen to spew forth whatever drivel that you can find second-hand on google search and Obot websites. The story about the supposed email from Maganga was pulled offline a few mere days after if was published. The Post & Email pulled it quickly after they learned more about deceitful writer that submitted the editorial for publication. It seems that he forgot to mention to that he and I used to work together (so to speak) and that I’d told him to get lost several times after I couldn’t deal with his controlling personality and desires to run my youtube channel and basically ‘take over” for me. There were also problems with the ‘full header’ of the email. The email could not be confirmed and Dr Maganga would not confirm that he’d sent the email.

    Furthermore, Dr Maganga has never released a public statement. Why?

    And even if Dr Manganga did write a terse one sentence email reply to a some email, what would that prove? As a matter of fact, I was part of the ‘project’ to contact Dr Maganga back in 2010 via email. We were fully aware that if we did receive a response from Dr Maganga that it would probably be a denial in full. However, we though that it was worth a try in that we might receive something, anything, that might be of some use to is some sort of favorable way. That was back in the end of June 2010 or beginning of July 2010. The other party and I to the project had or falling out later that month of July. At that point there’s still been no reply from Maganga. It wasn’t until September that the other party decided to publish his world-class bullsh-t editorial about a supposed email response from Maganga. This other party even timed his editorial to coincide with disclosure of my Letter to Congress project. This was done in a spout of jealousy and rage on the part of the other party. His hand was quickly shown and The Post & Email quickly removed the story from their website. At that point the other party even threatened to sue The Post & Email.

    I really wish that people on this blog would research their claims before they just jot down the first drivel that pops into their minds. Verify your claims before your make wild and unchecked accusations rather than recycling the last guy’s/gal’s erroneous and misinformation/disinformation filled hodgepodge of wild, chaotic, unchecked, unbridled, unchecked accusations.

    Thanks.

  87. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 6:06 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:…

    G:…

    Dr Othigo was not the Chief Administrator at CPGH on February 19, 2009.

    If you read the following blogs posts, which were written by a former employee of the Coast Province General Hospital, you’ll see that Dr. Othigo (or whatever names she chooses to go by today) was not the Chief Administrator at the Coast Province General Hospital in February 2009.

    http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com/

    http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com/2009_03_01_archive.html

    http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com/2009/03/donderdag-eerste-dag-stage.html

    and also

    http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com/2009/04/dinsdag.html

    http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com/2009_04_01_archive.html

    Dr. Conspiracy, if you have the time, and if you’d like to prove me wrong then perhaps, if you deem it worthy and appropriate, you might possible consider writing a blog report about this.

    Note: Be careful to read the blog (perhaps use Google translation) very carefully. I had to read it several times myself and then even again.

  88. avatar
    AnotherBird May 12, 2011 at 6:20 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Most of you all, maybe all of you, are not familiar with life in Africa.
    ….

    Americans (especially white Americans) and western Europeans are obsessed with dates, times and records. Many foreign cultures, especially in Africa (also in Central and South America and many other places) don’t hold these same system of values and norms.

    Lucas Africa is a continent not a country, with many different people and cultures. Consider Ethiopia who has a long history of record keeping. You seems to present a misunderstand of the “age of exploration” started by Christoper Columbus.

    Sometimes the best place to stop is at the beginning.

  89. avatar
    roadburner May 12, 2011 at 6:26 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: The newspaper is the ‘Mombasa Times’ and is an edition that was published on February 17th, 1944.I’ve taken pictures of 5 different segments (2 additional photos are close ups, making a total of 7 photos) of the newspaper that which display the same Month / Day / Year date format that is displayed in the two letters from Kenya that your blog report exhibits. The PDF of the photographs can be viewed at my scribd.com account (Patriot1980).Hopefully your followers that post on your will blog will be adult enough to accept that they made a mistake and stop bickering about the date format on the two letters from Kenya that are being discussed in your blog report.

    in this respect, lucas is right. when the month is written (such as on newspaper headings and postal franks), the month can be placed before the date.

    however, the mistake he made on the POSFKBC is that when a date is written numerically, the english beurocracies NEVER use the american format EVER.

    this i can state as fact, as i´m english.

  90. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 6:55 am #

    roadburner: in this respect, lucas is right. when the month is written (such as on newspaper headings and postal franks), the month can be placed before the date.

    however, the mistake he made on the POSFKBC is that when a date is written numerically, the english beurocracies NEVER use the american format EVER.

    this i can state as fact, as i´m english.

    Yes, and you know all about the Kenya Protectorate and and other old British colonies like India, right?

    Give me a break.

    You know about as much about the Protectorate of Kenya as Americans now about our Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands.

    Furthermore, the date format on the Kenyan birth certificate could have been at the request of Stanley Dunham. It also could have been initiated by the hospital (CPGH) in an attempt to appease Stanley Dunham.

    You wouldn’t believe how many times I’ve been offered a ‘tasty cheeseburger’ while abroad in places where a cheeseburger is rarely eaten. Locals sometimes have this strange idea that we, Americans, have traveled thousands of miles across the ocean to eat a cheeseburger rather than their taste local cuisine.

    Do you understand? (or is my above analogy just ‘too bloody simple’ for you?)

    I’m a little sick of people ‘claiming’ that because they are from England that they also know all about the 1961 Kenya protectorate.

    Yep, and I (Lucas Smith) am an American and just because I’m an American you probably assume that I know all about our little island of Siapan, right? Yeah right.

    And btw, and I don’t mean this an insult, but if you are one of those white men from England that frequent Kenya do you partake of the abundant supply of 13, 14 and 15 year old black Kenyan prostitutes?

    I only ask because when I was over there I swear, my hand of the damn bible, that every single time that I saw one of you ugly (I do mean physically ugly in the face and body shape) pasty face English crackers you always had a little 13-year-old-looking black Kenyan girl under your arm. True story.

  91. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 7:10 am #

    AnotherBird: Lucas Africa is a continent not a country, with many different people and cultures. Consider Ethiopia who has a long history of record keeping. You seems to present a misunderstand of the “age of exploration” started by Christoper Columbus.

    Sometimes the best place to stop is at the beginning.

    So, you wanted me to turn my already overly lengthy comment into more of a book length? You couldn’t just deduce that I was talking about maybe some of the countries in Africa? Your mind told you that I was must be talking about the entire continent? You really assumed that I must be referring to Africa as a country?

    And what do you know about Ethiopia? What are you, Wikipedia or something?

    I get tired of pasty face crackers nowadays that use Wikipedia entries as a substitute for real life experiences.

    Your like the studious white guys that try to write about black culture based on your one wild night back when your were twenty-one in college when you and your ‘buds’ ventured into the ‘ghetto’ for the thrill of and it also possibly to me some illegal drug.

    I’ve spent years abroad in what the ‘developed’ countries call the ‘undeveloped’ countries and I can tell you for fact that most of those people don’t give a damn about dates, times and records. Life wasn’t meant to be all about IDs, birth certificates and times and dates and records and permits and licenses and stamps and taxes.

    Also I really like how you summed my entire very over lengthy comment up with a simple insult about Africa being a continent rather than a country.

    Your brilliant. Simply brilliant.

  92. avatar
    Black Lion May 12, 2011 at 7:20 am #

    Obama deranement has become even more serious….Below is part of an e-mail sent to solicit donations for the right wing candidates….

    NIXON, OBAMA, FRAUD & IMPEACHMENT

    ALERT: Obama & Nixon Guilty of Same Offences

    TELL CONGRESS: REMOVE THE CRIMINAL! – IMPEACH NOW!

    Nixon’s election committee committed various criminal acts in an attempt to rig the 1972 elections. Yet, those who remember their history will note that it wasnot the crime that forced Richard Millhouse Nixon from the Oval Office; rather it was the cover up – including falsification of documents and Department of Justice interference – that doomed the 37th President of the United States.

    Now 37 years later, the American public is faced with far more serious election crimes, far more falsified documents, far more serious and thorough-going attempts to prevent the Department of Justice from upholding the law…and it all leads directly to Barack Hussein Obama.

    http://mail.conservativecontacts.com/hostedemail/email.htm?h=8f0646586f80cd9ca31a252fe0617b38&CID=8747216791&ch=41A8335C8CA4B0A94F06A9BB283DBEF1

  93. avatar
    Majority Will May 12, 2011 at 7:43 am #

    G: If I’m reading this correctly, you just paid me a rare compliment.Thank You…I think.

    It’s like saying Bernie Madoff thinks you’re a snappy dresser. Gee.

  94. avatar
    The Magic M May 12, 2011 at 7:56 am #

    > Below is part of an e-mail sent to solicit donations for the right wing candidates

    “Adobe Illustrator – a favorite tool for discovering digital forgeries”

    Oh this is really making me laugh. 🙂
    What’s next? “AMC Pacer – a favourite car for looking for evidence in Hawaii and not believing what you’re finding”?

  95. avatar
    roadburner May 12, 2011 at 7:58 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: I’m a little sick of people claiming’ that because they are from England that they also know all about the 1961 Kenya protectorate .

    the kenyan protectorate was administered by an english beurocracy. english beurocracies DO NOT under any circumstances use american date formats and never have. if you can prove otherwise (other than on your POSFKBC) then bring it on.

    no diversion, no distraction, no changing the subject or responding with purile insults, just as they say in missouri `show me´.

    direct challenge sunshine, have you the balls or the proof to back up your outlandish claims?

  96. avatar
    Majority Will May 12, 2011 at 7:59 am #

    El Diablo Negro: I may not be a master forger, but I have been a graphic artist for over 10 years using Illustrator, Photoshop and Quark Express. The most important thing we did before we published anything is have someone proofread (with a dictionary and thesaurus) the ad or column. It takes dedication to forge a document, but to single-handedly forge a document to pass the sniff test is where the fail is. Proofreading is a special skill, not everyone can do it….or wants to.

    It’s QuarkXPress (http://www.quark.com/Products/QuarkXPress/). 😉

    (I’ve been proofreading for decades. Restaurant menus, signs and instruction manuals attempting coherent English messages can drive me nuts. http://www.engrish.com/2008/07/i-always-wondered-where-the-grinch-lived/)

  97. avatar
    The Magic M May 12, 2011 at 8:03 am #

    > most of those people don’t give a damn about dates, times and records

    Or the spelling of their own name, like Heltan Maganga? Yeah, right, they don’t even care about that.

    But then how comes that the alleged Kenyan documents WND is pimping right now are speaking of the “high importance” of the possibility that documents were “removed from the archives”? Doesn’t sound like they don’t give a damn about records. Or do you agree they are forgeries?

  98. avatar
    roadburner May 12, 2011 at 8:04 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Furthermore, the date format on the Kenyan birth certificate could have been at the request of Stanley Dunham. It also could have been initiated by the hospital

    oh, please!

    now you´re stretching credibility to the dimensions of microfibre!

    `oh, can you please make an exception for me on your forms as i´d like to be the only person using an american date format, despite the fact it´d balls up your system´

    or

    `hey, just this once let´s use a different date format! great idea!´

    this one really took the bollocks you spout to a new level!

  99. avatar
    Lupin May 12, 2011 at 8:58 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: I’m a little sick of people claiming’ that because they are from England that they also know all about the 1961 Kenya protectorate.

    I don’t particularly care if the documents in question are genuine or not; I’m not even certain what they prove anyway, but I was a lawyer for Barclays Bank for two years reviewing official documents and I can tell you that those documents don’t look/sound as if they were were written by a British or British-educated official. To me, they look as if they were written by an American. Just saying.

    (As an aside the best course in English “officialese” is the wonderful TV series YES MINISTER/YES PRIME MINISTER. Can you picture Sir Humphrey writing these?)

    As for your absurd contention that people in or former colonies don’t care about accuracy in dates and records, my experience, which in another capacity involved dealing with organizations from Ivory Coast and Burkina Faso (the former Upper Volta) is quite the opposite. I always found them far more sticklers for details, painfully so sometimes.

    Frankly most of your postings sound quite delusional and mythomaniacal to me. Sadly you appear to believe your own rubbish.

  100. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 12, 2011 at 9:11 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: If you read the following blogs posts, which were written by a former employee of the Coast Province General Hospital, you’ll see that Dr. Othigo (or whatever names she chooses to go by today) was not the Chief Administrator at the Coast Province General Hospital in February 2009.

    “Read this; I’m right” is not an argument. Since you say you have read this several times, then you should be able to lay out an argument that shows how this long text supports your contention.

    Then I will be willing to evaluate your argument.

  101. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 12, 2011 at 9:27 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: First, to be clear, I didn’t forge the document.

    Second, I believe it is accurate to say, again, that most people (not everyone) here on this blog really and truly rarely ever have a clue about anything that they are discussing.

    People here are recycling old internet lore about:

    1. Helton/Heltan Maganga’s name (i.e., the spelling of).

    2. Helton/Heltan Maganga’s dates of tenure at CPGH.

    Let me be clear. I do not claim that you forged the POSFKBC. I don’t have any information about who forged the POSFKBC. I may have carelessly said that, since you are the only one who claims where it came from.

    The basic problem with the POSFKBC is that it has no provenance. For that reason, and that reason alone, it cannot be relied upon.

    The problems that have been found with the document, which are numerous, are really besides the point.

    You seem to think that finding Othigo and Maganga’s name misspelled in various places is somehow relevant, but the only relevance is an excuse the forger might make for why the name is wrong. The name on a birth certificate has to be correct, and it isn’t.

    Further I verified Maganga’s dates as chief administrator were June 1, 2009 – December 4, 2010.

  102. avatar
    Gregory May 12, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    There’s a clear tip-off that correspondence is phony: “Numerous intelligence reports have suggested that he might have been born in Mombasa…”

    Of course there are no such “intelligence reports” because there has never been any evidence whatsoever that Obama was born in Kenya – because he wasn’t. Case closed.

  103. avatar
    The Magic M May 12, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    > Furthermore, the date format on the Kenyan birth certificate could have been at the request of Stanley Dunham. It also could have been initiated by the hospital

    That’s an interesting opinion for someone who considers the Kenyan BC real and thus the Hawaiian LFBC a fake.

    So changing a date format (which invariably would throw off the book-keeping) at the request of the mother is plausible to you, yet “African” as race (“as stated by the father”) on the LFBC is not?

    Besides, I have yet to see one bureaucracy happily mixing its data formats at the request of the people or just ad-libbing them.
    Does any US state issue driver’s licenses or passports with dates in the “dd/mm/yyyy” format because the applicant was born in an European country?

    Your allusion (read: illusion) that Kenya cares so little for its data that it is willing to mix up days and months shows you’re still attached to prejudices.

    Are you going to tell the same crap on birther sites? Because I must forewarn you, if you as much as allude that Kenyan officials make substantial changes to their birth certificates at the request of the parents, it might shoot down the credibility of the POSFKBC quickly. I mean, if they do that, what other data on your phony BC can we not trust?
    (Just kidding of course, birfers will never question a document that confirms their ODS, no matter how stupid it is.)

  104. avatar
    obsolete May 12, 2011 at 9:54 am #

    Lucas has shown one thing in his posts here- He has acquired an ENORMOUS amount of info, links, books, etc. that will be very helpful in composing his future forgeries.

  105. avatar
    misha May 12, 2011 at 9:58 am #

    The Magic M: “AMC Pacer – a favourite car for looking for evidence in Hawaii and not believing what you’re finding”?

    “A recent poll by Hagerty Insurance asked enthusiasts to name the worst car design of all time: This glassine bolus of dorkiness is the pathetic winner.”

    http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658533_1658042,00.html

  106. avatar
    Bovril May 12, 2011 at 10:00 am #

    Lukie-babes really seems to have a thing about under age prostitutes, do we smell the merest hint of projection possibily?

    For the record and due to my many and manifest sins (not including child prostitutes Lucy) I spent a number of years doing “stuff” with the British Army, the British civil service and time on various secondments and touristy trips to southern Africa.

    Specifically time spent in the old RSA, Namibia, Botswana, Nigeria, Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, Kenya and Tanzania. My old WHO yellow booklet of vaccinations was truly a wonder to behold.

    Now, as such I feel comfortable in saying that

    a. Post colonial Africa bureaucracies are, in general, very rigid in following the letter of the rules and as these are, in general, well paid, comfortable and well regarded postions there is a lot of competition for the free slots and great comformity.

    b. Bureaucrats are actively disencouraged from making things up, bending the rules, going there own way etc. It is form, function and process from start to end and winging it is a sure way to be disciplined

    c. In the African countries I went to, I NEVER saw a single instance of MM/DD/YYYY in any of the official paperwork, letters, visa’s, forms etc, always DD/MM/YYYY. Format may be different occassionally, such as 14 January, 1972 or 14 Jan 72, or 14/01/1972 but never month first.

    d. On the occassions I did either interact and have correspondance with or from a civil servant AND the document was in English then it was always grammatically correct, occasionally fulsome and invariably with correct ENGLISH/ENGLISH syntax.

    The only time I have received communications from Africa, written in the garbled format of these WND “letters”, was from people interested in using me as a trustworth third party to facilitate the movement of amazing sums of money from a relative I never even knew I had……

  107. avatar
    El Diablo Negro May 12, 2011 at 10:25 am #

    Majority Will: It’s QuarkXPress (http://www.quark.com/Products/QuarkXPress/).

    Now you know i am not a good proofreader. 🙁

  108. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) May 12, 2011 at 10:42 am #

    obsolete: Lucas has shown one thing in his posts here- He has acquired an ENORMOUS amount of info, links, books, etc. that will be very helpful in composing his future forgeries.

    Obsolete I really think we’re helping him out when we point out the problems with his forgeries. It will only make him be more exact next time.

  109. avatar
    Daniel May 12, 2011 at 11:04 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: I really wish that people on this blog would research their claims before they just jot down the first drivel that pops into their minds.

    I really wish people like you would stop characterizing as “research” their dancing and weaseling, after the fact, in order to try and salvage a sinking ship… but that’s not likely to happen, is it?

  110. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 12, 2011 at 11:12 am #

    Mr. Smith,

    I find your stated love of Africa incongruent with your obvious disdain for people of African descent…

  111. avatar
    Kevin Bellas May 12, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    Reading all of Lucus D. Smith aka I, Lucus posts leads me to believe this is one twisted man. His bravado posts here and his Sharon Rondue butt kissing posts over at The Post and Fail, really how do you do it?

  112. avatar
    Mik Taerg May 12, 2011 at 11:40 am #

    so what are these 2 documents telling us ?

    That Obama was not born in Kenya and that the GOP and it’s hit squads have subtracted documents from Kenyan archives to mount the failed October surprise.
    Remember that Ambassador Rennenberg (Bush appointee) felt the need to meet crook Corsi immediately after his release from arrest.

    just another minor point: Lucas Smith is an idiot (yes I’m insulting him)

  113. avatar
    The Magic M May 12, 2011 at 11:52 am #

    > so what are these 2 documents telling us ?
    >
    > That Obama was not born in Kenya

    I think it is quite common these days for the birfer “proofs” to prove the opposite of what they are probably trying to prove.

    Let’s recap:

    1. The YouTube analyis of a guy who starts out with a layered document in Photoshop, then utterly fails to recreate the “layers” the Obama LFBC shows when loading his created PDF into Illustrator.
    Intention: prove that the LFBC has been created with Photoshop.
    Actual result: proved that the LFBC layers cannot be recreated from a Photoshop layered document => FAIL

    2. The US documents showing that the US government “doubted Obama’s citizenship as a 5-year-old”. Yet the documents showed that the results of the inquiry were that Obama was born in Hawaii.
    Intention: prove that even the government was uncertain where Obama was born.
    Actual result: Obama was born in Hawaii => FAIL

    3. The Kenyan documents talking about an alleged Kenyan birth of Obama.
    Intention: prove that Kenya thinks he was born there or that Kenyan records have been tampered with.
    Actual result: proved that Kenya has no records or other evidence pointing to a Kenyan birth => FAIL

    So all this was good for was the good old yellow press style of journalism – a yelling headline “SENSATIONAL ISSUE: WAS JESUS REALLY A LIZARD?” followed by lots of meaningless paragraph and the conclusion “no, he was not” buried somewhere near the end.

    Pathetic, again.

  114. avatar
    Mik Taerg May 12, 2011 at 11:57 am #

    someone might feel curious enough to contact Mr. Kisombe (I don’t)

    from his very active facebool page

    ekmwatibo@yahoo.com

  115. avatar
    gorefan May 12, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: The Swahili language is spelled out phonetically in Latin/Indo-European. As you know (at least I hope you do) that means that words and names are spelled out as they sound.

    Lucas D. Smith: I really don’t understand what is so hard to understand about this.

    You telling us to look at this publication or that publication and see how they spell the name Helton. Who cares how other people spell Dr. Maganga’s name? All that matters is how he spells it.

    Are you saying that sometimes Dr. Maganga spells his first name with an “a” and sometimes he spells it with an “o”?

    Lucas D. Smith: Furthermore, please remember that I have always stated that I have NEVER seen or spoken with Dr. Maganga in my life.

    You do realize that even if you got that piece of paper in Kenya from the Coast Hospital, if that is not Dr. Maganga signature, the paper is even more worthless then it already is.

  116. avatar
    Critical Thinker May 12, 2011 at 12:23 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I can tell you for fact that most of those people don’t give a damn about dates, times and records. Life wasn’t meant to be all about IDs, birth certificates and times and dates and records and permits and licenses and stamps and taxes.

    You, Lucas Smith, are asking people to believe that he, Heltan Manganga, spelled his own name incorrectly—twice—in certifying your alleged birth certificate?! According to you, he had an official stamp made with his name spelled incorrectly, used it in certifying official documents, and then misspelled his name again when he signed the form. This is simply not believable, regardless of how much or little his society values precision and accuracy.

  117. avatar
    NBC May 12, 2011 at 12:27 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I can tell you for fact that most of those people don’t give a damn about dates, times and records. Life wasn’t meant to be all about IDs, birth certificates and times and dates and records and permits and licenses and stamps and taxes.

    Don’t you feel your time was wasted then? Paid $5000+ to get a misspelled name? Sloppy my friend, sloppy. Not a very good investment either.

  118. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 12, 2011 at 1:12 pm #

    Lucas Smith is still trying to pass off a counterfeit $25 bill as if it was genuine. He can argue all day and all night about details on the POSFKBC, but it’s not what a Kenyan birth certificate looks like and it is not issued by or from the Kenyan agency that handles birth registrations.

  119. avatar
    sponson May 12, 2011 at 2:07 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith is probing the observant people here about the mistakes in his own forgeries in order to hone his skills for the next one, which he will probably pass off under a pseudonym and it will end up on sites like WND and in Orly’s hands. I’m not at all suggesting that people refrain from talking to him, but keep in mind this is probably why he bothers to write here.

  120. avatar
    Mik Taerg May 12, 2011 at 2:25 pm #

    Mr.Smith might want to take note.

    Heltan Maganga
    is not an optional translitteration from Swahili into Arabic and then into English
    and
    Heltan Maganga
    is not one of the many customary spellings for the same Kenyan
    but
    Heltan Maganga
    is the Doc’s official name according to the Republic of Kenya

    In 2011 The Gazette of Kenya has published
    MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS RETENTION REGISTER, 2010

    first of all you need to know what the Law of Kenya

    THE MEDICAL PRACTITIONERS AND DENTISTS ACT

    (Cap. 253)

    is

    it is explained here:

    http://www.kenyalaw.org/kenyalaw/klr_app/view_content.php?ContentHistoryID=2292

    the above law also exlains that there is an official regiter of precticing doctors and that

    5. (1)For the purpose of this Act, there shall be a registrar of Medical Practitioners and Dentists.

    (2) The Director of Medical Services shall be the Registrar, and shall perform such duties in connection with the register as are prescribed by this Act.

    (3) The Registrar shall keep a register of medical practitioners and dentists in the prescribed form. ”

    now let’s go to the “official” register signed by the official registrar

    Dr. Francis M. Kimani
    Director of Medical Services
    Ministry of Medical Services
    (also found here: http://www.statehousekenya.go.ke/government/medical_services.htm)

    http://medicalboard.co.ke/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=35

    something about the medical board not just any online directory (quoted from the above site)

    “The Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board is a statutory authority established under Cap 253 Laws of Kenya to regulate the practice of medicine and dentistry in the country………………

    ……………………….

    Medical Practitioners & Dentists Board Functions ….
    ……

    REGISTRATION AND LICENCING

    1.To direct and supervise the compilation and maintenance of a register and all records required to be kept under sections 6,13,14,15 of the Act.
    2.To regulate private practice.
    3.To such things as are incidental to the performance of all or any of the foregoing functions.”

    here is the specific name listed

    MAGANGA, HELTAN MNJAMA P. O. BOX 41009 MOMBASA 80100 MBChB(Nbi)1993 M.Med(Nbi)2001 GENERAL SURGERY

    So according to the Government of Kenya Heltan is the correct spelling

  121. avatar
    Thrifty May 12, 2011 at 3:41 pm #

    Seems Orly Taitz is referencing these documents in her newest round of legal shenanigans.

  122. avatar
    PaulG May 12, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: She currently works at Aga Khan hospital in Nairobi, Kenya. On the hospitals website her name is spelled, “Mary Othigo“.
    http://www.agakhanhospitals.org/email.asp?mailto=Dr%20Mary%20Othigo

    The question is whether she would be the same Othigo. Aga Khan is a huge place. Look who else works there!

    http://www.agakhanhospitals.org/email.asp?mailto=Dr%20Terry%20Lakin

    http://www.agakhanhospitals.org/email.asp?mailto=Dr%20Judge%20Crater

    http://www.agakhanhospitals.org/email.asp?mailto=Dr%20Feel%20Good

    the list goes on…

  123. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 12, 2011 at 3:55 pm #

    I have a lot of experience with documents from Africa. This is an example of what an authentic one sounds like:

    There is an issue with the World Bank Creditors in the amount of $10.5 Million Dollars directed in cash credited to file KTU/ 9023118308/03,at the Owner of this email address which has now been reverted to a safe deposit couple of hours ago due to the Recent Internal Revenue Service Act at the expense of regular Tax payer.

    In view of several efforts already made by us to contact you for the following reasons based on the new account submitted to this office on your behalf.

    (1) My Office desks have just received a sworn affidavit from Mr. RAINER HESSE of Germany to re-route your payment (10.5 M) into a new bank account number as
    stated “VACAP” Federal Credit Union, 1700 Robin Hood Road,Richmond, VA
    23220.Account number 32501.of Mr. RAINER HESSE.

    (2) Please, confirm to our department if you have instructed Mr. Rainer Hesse to appoint an attorney/agent on your behalf thereby asking that he receive cash Remittance on your behalf.

    (3) It has come to our notice that you are Being contacted by unauthorized individuals with respect to your Compensation but unfortunately this office is not aware of your Unofficial dealings and warned that it is at your own risk.

    (4)You are mandated to email me for proceedings on how to get your funds transferred Legally Online.

    Signed By,

    Mark Everson

  124. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 12, 2011 at 4:16 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: http://www.agakhanhospitals.org/email.asp?mailto=Dr%20Mary%20Othigo

    That same spelling can be found in medical reports, as well.

    However, most critics claims that here name is spelled, “Merry Othigo”

    Which spelling is correct’?

    And if ‘Mary’ is incorrect’ then why is the hospital not spelling it that way?

    Furthermore, and more importantly, if Aga Khan hospital can spell her Merry as “Mary” than can’t Coast Province General Hospital spell Heltan as “Helton”?

    ROFL!!!

    Looks like YOU GOT US ON THIS ONE. THE HOSPITAL WEB SITE MUST BE RIGHT!

  125. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 4:21 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Oh MY, and look at who else!!!!!

    I sincerely hope that you are just joking. (However, I’ve got the funny feeling that you really don’t know what you are doing). And, yes, of course you can search for any name (including Santa Clause) that you like on their website. However, you wont find a record of any of those names on the hospital’s website that you are searching on.

    But you will find Mary Othigo name listed as record on the Aga Khan website.

    HOSPITAL The Aga Khan Hospital, Mombasa [Obstetrics and Gynaecology]
    NAME Dr Mary Othigo
    SPECIALTY Obstetrics and Gynaecology
    STATUS Part time
    CREDENTIALS MBChB, MMed (Obstetrics and Gynaecology)
    TELEPHONE +254 41 227 710 – 5
    FAX +254 41 313 728
    E-MAIL Write to Dr Mary Othigo
    SCHEDULE Thursday: 1400 – 1700
    Saturday: 0800 – 1300

    http://www.agakhanhospitals.org/find_doctor1.asp?tri=centre&countrybis=Kenya&speciality=Surgery&hospitalbis=The%20Aga%20Khan%20Hospital,%20Mombasa

  126. avatar
    US Citizen May 12, 2011 at 4:22 pm #

    Lucas, can you prove you’ve ever even been to Africa?
    A scan of your passport maybe?
    Some airline ticket stubs or receipts perhaps?

  127. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: ROFL!!!

    Looks like YOU GOT US ON THIS ONE. THE HOSPITAL WEB SITE MUST BE RIGHT!

    Doc, you’ve just made a complete fool of yourself.

    I trust that you are man enough to admit.

  128. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 12, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: I sincerely hope that you are just joking.

    Well, yes I was joking, but you were the one who posted the universal-echo-everything URL first.

    Of course, you’re mixing apples and oranges. Othigo is a part-time staffer at Aga Khan hospital, whereas Maganga was (according to you) the Chief Administrator. And a web directory is not the same thing as a name on a birth certificate’s official certification stamp. That would be something like the name of a notary public being spelled wrong on his notary seal.

    I mean, if somebody had spelled “Coast Provincial General Hospital” on a seal embosser wrong, wouldn’t you have sent it back?

  129. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    G:…

    G,

    You sometimes wonder why I lose my composure on blogs such as Doc Conspiracy. You have a valid concern there and I submit that I should be more professional and that I should never lose composure and that I should always keep a cool and level head.

    I do however hope that you understand, maybe just a little, why I sometimes get a little upset (even though I shouldn’t let other people dictate my actions, and that I should be the self-controller) when, after I took the time write out some valid points with merit, I am shot down by even Doc Conspiracy.

    As you can see from Doc Conspiracy’s latest remarks, he has absolutely no idea as to what he is talking about.

    Furthermore, he first claimed that the Aga Khan hospital records were not relative to the discussion (another big strike against him), yet, know he takes up the issue to refute me?

    Now that he looks like complete fool (no offense) I’m sure that he will go back to claiming that Aga Khan hospital and Mary Othigo’s name is not relevant.

    What a let down.

  130. avatar
    Rickey May 12, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith:

    I trust that you are man enough to admit.

    Are you man enough to admit that you’ve never been to Kenya? I didn’t think so.

    When you provide incontrovertible proof that you have been to Kenya, then and only then will you have the credibility to question the manliness of others.

  131. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Well, yes I was joking, but you were the one who posted the universal-echo-everything URL first.

    Of course, you’re mixing apples and oranges. Othigo is a part-time staffer at Aga Khan hospital, whereas Maganga was (according to you) the ChiefAdministrator. And a web directory is not the same thing as a name on a birth certificate’s official certification stamp. That would be something like the name of a notary public being spelled wrong on his notary seal.

    I mean, if somebody had spelled “Coast Provincial General Hospital” on a seal embosser wrong, wouldn’t you have sent it back?

    Don’t back track now. Your second post makes it very clear that you really thought that you were on to something.

    You shown your hand now. You are easily mislead.

    And why, now, is it irrelevant again?

    How come you cant report objectively on this one?

  132. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 4:42 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: universal-echo-everything URL first.

    “Web directory”??? Where talking about the hospital’s official website, NOT some generic ‘web directory’. By the way, ‘web directories’ are what YOU AND YOUR CRONIES use in your rebuttals, and that’s all you ever had. Nothing tangible.

    Again, be a man and admit that you’ve made a mistake. It’s clear that you thought that I (Lucas) had made a mistake in searching for a name on the website when the website allows anyone to write to anyone (even staff names that aren’t on file) at the hospital.

    Next time be more careful so that you don’t end up looking like a fool again.

  133. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 12, 2011 at 4:47 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Furthermore, he first claimed that the Aga Khan hospital records were not relative to the discussion (another big strike against him), yet, know [sic] he takes up the issue to refute me?

    That’s a straw man argument. I didn’t say that Aga Khan hospital records were not relative [relevant?] to the discussion. I said that a web employee directory is not the same as a certifier’s official stamp, and that a part-time employee is not as likely to be accurate as the Chief Administrator.

  134. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 4:58 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That’s a straw man argument. I didn’t say that Aga Khan hospital records were not relative [relevant?] to the discussion. I said that a web employee directory is not the same as a certifier’s official stamp, and that a part-time employee is not as likely to be accurate as the Chief Administrator.

    Doc, this isn’t the first time (I’ve mentioned it to you several times on your blog) that I have brought the Aga Khan hospital and Othigos name up. I’ve even emailed you about it before and this is YOUR reply:

    “I’ve seen all this (in fact you gave the variant list for Othigo a few
    days ago on the blog), not that the spelling or Dr. Othigo’s name has
    any relevance whatever to the discussion at hand. It’s merely a diversion
    .

    Here is my email to you that you made your above listed reply to::

    Is it ‘Mary’ or is it ‘Merry’? And is it ‘Jeniffer’ or is it ‘Jennifer’?
    >
    > 1. Dr ‘MARY’ Othigo
    >
    > http://www.agakhanhospitals.org/find_doctor1.asp?tri=centre&countrybis=Kenya&speciality=Surgery&hospitalbis=The%20Aga%20Khan%20Hospital,%20Mombasa
    >
    > 2. Dr Othigo, Jeniffer ‘MARY’ (also not the spelling of ‘Jeniffer’ is not the same as above in example number 4)
    >
    > http://www.medpages.co.za/sf/index.php?page=person&personcode=147763
    >
    > or is it…..
    >
    > 3. Othigo ‘MERRY’ J. O. (Dr)
    >
    > http://www.africadrugindex.com/j/directory/healthdirectoryall.php?id=Gynaecologist/Obstretrician
    >
    > 4. Dr. ‘MERRY’Jennifer Othigo (also not the spelling of ‘Jennifer’ is not the same as above in example number 2)
    > http://www.drh.go.ke/documents/RH%20Research%20Agenda%20Report.pdf
    >
    > Tell me, what is the correct name(s), and correct spellings those name(s) for the Kenyan doctor Othigo (or Othiga) that you claims was the the Chief Admin on Feb. 19th, 2009 at Coast Province General Hospital?
    >
    > Dr. Conspiracy, please proceed with extreme caution before answering, or, in your next blog report about it.

    Try to keep your story straight, Doc.

    Is it relevant or not? Are you going to man up and admit that you’ve now lied to everyone here today on your blog?

    Please answer without getting all emotional and changing the subject. You are only digging yourself in deeper.

  135. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 12, 2011 at 5:00 pm #

    Doc Conspiracy,

    I’m waiting for your pretzel bending reply.

    Explain yourself, please.

  136. avatar
    Bob May 12, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    These documents are as believable as the young woman who scratched a backwards “B” on her face and claimed she was assaulted by an Obama supporter.

  137. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 12, 2011 at 5:20 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith:
    Doc Conspiracy,

    I’m waiting for your pretzel bending reply.

    Explain yourself, please.

    I asked you several questions that you have been unwilling to answer – is that because honest answers would revel you to be either an incompetent forger and con man or a naive idiot? Have you never heard anything regarding stones and houses made of glass?

  138. avatar
    gorefan May 12, 2011 at 5:22 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Please answer without getting all emotional and changing the subject. You are only digging yourself in deeper.

    Please answer without getting all emotional and changing the subject.

    How does the employee directory at Coast Provincial General Hospital spell Dr. Maganga name? Heltan? or Helton? And please provide documentation.

  139. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 12, 2011 at 5:28 pm #

    It doesn’t matter. Hospitals don’t certify birth records. Neither Maganga nor any other administrator is going to purport to do something that isn’t within their ordinary responsibilities. We might as well debate the proper spelling of Dudley Doright on the Canadian FBC.

  140. avatar
    roadburner May 12, 2011 at 5:50 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Doc Conspiracy,I’m waiting for your pretzel bending reply.Explain yourself, please.

    as i am waiting for yours (although you making that comment does somewhat amuse me), but it seems for some reason you´re reluctant to do so.

    c´mon lucas, show a pair for once.

  141. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 12, 2011 at 6:06 pm #

    gorefan: How does the employee directory at Coast Provincial General Hospital spell Dr. Maganga name? Heltan? or Helton? And please provide documentation.

    I don’t know about Kenya, but in US hospitals one frequently sees a row of photographs down some hallway picturing each hospital administrator and their dates of service. I wonder how the name would be spelled for Dr. Maganga.

  142. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: Is it relevant or not? Are you going to man up and admit that you’ve now lied to everyone here today on your blog?

    Uhhh, “no,” but I can spell “context” for you.

    Since you’re the expert, how does Dr. Maganga spell his first name?

  143. avatar
    gorefan May 12, 2011 at 6:17 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I don’t know about Kenya, but in US hospitals one frequently sees a row of photographs down some hallway picturing each hospital administrator

    Maybe Lucas can tells us.

    Dr. Conspiracy: I wonder how the name would be spelled for Dr. Maganga.

    I looked at linkedin and searched for the first name Helton, there were over 700 and none of them in Africa. Oddly enough, there were tons of Heltons in Brazil. Maybe Lucas went to the wrong continent.

    Oh, there was one listing for a Heltan, he’s a Consultant Surgeon at Coast Provincial General Hospital in Kenya.

  144. avatar
    Bovril May 12, 2011 at 6:24 pm #

    roadburner: c´mon lucas, show a pair for once.

    Once or Nonce Roadburner, based on Lucy’s comments to date..?

  145. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 12, 2011 at 6:35 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: By the way, web directories’ are what YOU AND YOUR CRONIES use in your rebuttals

    And the LinkedIn profile.

    But are you willing to commit to what Dr. Maganga’s first name really is, or you just going to say that there is no right answer?

  146. avatar
    US Citizen May 12, 2011 at 6:43 pm #

    And still not a shred of proof provided that Lucas Smith has ever been to Africa.

    Here Doc has pointed us to a forgery shown on WND and for some unknown reason, Lucas immediately comes out of the woodwork.
    Isn’t that interesting?
    Why Lucas?
    What could this blog or WND have that you want?
    Attention? Glory?
    Don’t you realize that when one is a forger, they inherently can’t take credit for their work?

    Poor guy. He so badly wants attention and to be told how great he is, but picked the wrong business for obtaining personal credit and kudos in.

    Lucas, where is some proof you’ve ever been to Africa?

  147. avatar
    G May 12, 2011 at 6:55 pm #

    Lucas D. Smith: You sometimes wonder why I lose my composure on blogs such as Doc Conspiracy. You have a valid concern there and I submit that I should be more professional and that I should never lose composure and that I should always keep a cool and level head.

    I do however hope that you understand, maybe just a little, why I sometimes get a little upset (even though I shouldn’t let other people dictate my actions, and that I should be the self-controller) when, after I took the time write out some valid points with merit, I am shot down by even Doc Conspiracy

    Lucas,

    Yes, I can sympathize with and understand why you get upset. We are all human and have feelings. It is very easy for our emotions to take over when we are mocked or ridiculed.

    What is harder, yet more important in the long run is to learn to temper and control our impulse hurt reactions from making the situation worse. You should realize by now in life that it is easier to damage one’s reputation that to earn respect and that one’s actions have consequences that can haunt them through life…especially if they don’t learn a better way to grow from those mistakes. An emotionally angry response to the frustrations and consequences of this reality just ends up causing new problems and makes the matter worse.

    Look, I don’t deny that you are in a difficult position, as your past (plus some of your recent behavior and statements) have done significant damage to your reputation that are very hard to ever recover from. Everyone wants to have respect…but when you’re in a position starting out in a negative light – that’s a mighty hefty challenge to even climb back up to a neutral footing…let alone gain respect and trust. I don’t envy you for that.

    But nor should you give up hope in trying to learn and better yourself…or to make matters worse for yourself by falling back to bad behaviors and habits in response. All that ever does is cause a never-ending downward cycle of further problems for yourself and your reputation and just makes it that much harder for you to ever break away from it.

    I also understand why you’ve earned the emnity and mocking from others here…some of the responses I fully understand…others sink down to a level, which I agree are distasteful and a bit immature.

    But then again, you have to look at some of your own weird anger postings and realize that you jumped into the sewer first and dragged those others down to that level in response. Personally, I wish some of the others didn’t sink down to that level with you… they too can be better than that and don’t need to demean their own maturity by matching a childish p*ssing contest of silly insults with you. Hey, we’re all human and I can lose my cool and get down in the gutter too at times, so it happens to all of us. But I’m never proud of that and all I can do is try to use my own failings as reminders for why I need to try to do better in the future.

    It is always harder to build than destroy. It takes a lot of determination, practice and committment to break bad habits. Taking responsibility for your actions and accepting that you have to patiently understand and weather the long-term blow back that results takes a lot of self-discipline and maturity. However, that is really the only path to improvement, if you truly wish to grow and better yourself.

    You have to accept that you need to earn your way back in life to even ground zero…otherwise you’ll never get out of the hole you’re in and only dig yourself deeper. Running away from your problems and past won’t help either…that’s simply denying the issues that need to be fixed, instead of doing the hard work to address them…and you’ll always just end up making similar mistakes and damaging your reputation in new areas wherever you run.

    The only way to truly become a better man is to accept the reality and consequences of where you’ve put yourself in life and understand what it is about yourself that brings about your troubles and work with sincere determination and perserverance to change it. You must also learn to understand and accept that it can be a long and hard process and that it will take a lot of good will from you to earn back good will from others.

    One helfpul tip: The advantage of an online conversation is that you don’t have to respond to something right away. If you are in the wrong frame of mind or a bad mood, simply step away from the keyboard and come back when you have some distance and perspective. Review what you write before sending it and put yourself in the other person’s shoes and try to realize how it comes across and makes you look by saying it.

  148. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny May 12, 2011 at 10:10 pm #

    I had another look at Lucas’ main line of defense: the employee directory of the Aga Khan Hospital at Mombasa. I got lucky on the first name: Dr Joseph Okanga.

    According to the medical directory quoted before, there is no Dr Joseph Okanga, his real name is Dr Joseph Bhoe Okanga Othieno.

    http://medicalboard.co.ke/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=35
    (page 99 gives both Othigo and Okanga)

    Seems like Mr Smith is quoting sources which have a habit of muddling with African names. Arab foundations, for instance.

    Of course, the main point is not that Dr Maganga probably knows how to spell his own Christian name, but that he was not the chief administrator at the time.

    Now Mr Smith claims blog posts by a “former employee” of the hospital prove Othigo was not the administrator at the time in February. This is one of his sources (I am trying to deal with them chronologically, not following Lucas’s order):

    http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com/2009_03_01_archive.html

    Surprise, it is in Dutch, Belgian Dutch. But Mr Smith does not know I speak “Belgian” Dutch (better than French by the way). I can assure you the text does not mention the name of the Administrator at all. It mentions how a couple of Belgians went to Mombasa to help as interns (they actually have to pay the hospital to work there) at the Coast Hospital, from March 2009 for three months. Former employees? Not really. They got a letter of introduction for the Chief Administrator (there is no hint in the text as to the sex of the adminstrator) and left it at reception. It does mention the chief specialist in Anatomy and Pathology, a Mr Mandaliya. (I suspect this got Lucas confused) Now, for the next one:

    http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com/2009/03/donderdag-eerste-dag-stage.html

    This is actually the same blog text as the first one, only now without the tourist information on Mombasa. Funny and typical. A bit like sockpuppeting, really.

    http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com/
    http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com/2009/04/dinsdag.html
    http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com/2009_04_01_archive.html

    Here again, TREE times the same text, describing the second week. After enrolling on Wednesday (they reached Mombasa from the Netherlands in 30 hours), it takes them until next Tuesday to meet the formidable Dr Othigo. The big boss at obstetrics. She was supposed to supervise their internships, but obviously does not have the time, running from administration to labour wards and back.

    In other words, Lucas’s evidence that Othigo was not the administrator, is merely TWO short blog entries by a guy who never found the time to talk to Othigo and who in any case never said that Othigo was NOT the administrator.

    Really, people, Lucas is, well, Lucas Smith. (and yes, that is an insult)

    And the two documents that this thread is about, do not sound British English to me either.

  149. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 13, 2011 at 12:35 am #

    Paul Pieniezny: I had another look at Lucas’ main line of defense: the employee directory of the Aga Khan Hospital at Mombasa. I got lucky on the first name: Dr Joseph Okanga.

    Thanks for taking the time to look into this and sharing with us.

  150. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 13, 2011 at 1:04 am #

    G: Lucas,

    Yes, I can sympathize with and understand why you get upset.We are all human and have feelings.It is very easy for our emotions to take over when we are mocked or ridiculed.

    What is harder, yet more important in the long run is to learn to temper and control our impulse hurt reactions from making the situation worse.You should realize by now in life that it is easier to damage one’s reputation that to earn respect and that one’s actions have consequences that can haunt them through life…especially if they don’t learn a better way to grow from those mistakes. An emotionally angry response to the frustrations and consequences of this reality just ends up causing new problems and makes the matter worse.

    Look, I don’t deny that you are in a difficult position, as your past (plus some of your recent behavior and statements) have done significant damage to your reputation that are very hard to ever recover from.Everyone wants to have respect…but when you’re in a position starting out in a negative light – that’s a mighty hefty challenge to even climb back up to a neutral footing…let alone gain respect and trust.I don’t envy you for that.

    But nor should you give up hope in trying to learn and better yourself…or to make matters worse for yourself by falling back to bad behaviors and habits in response.All that ever does is cause a never-ending downward cycle of further problems for yourself and your reputation and just makes it that much harder for you to ever break away from it.

    I also understand why you’ve earned the emnity and mocking from others here…some of the responses I fully understand…others sink down to a level, which I agree are distasteful and a bit immature.

    But then again, you have to look at some of your own weird anger postings and realize that you jumped into the sewer first and dragged those others down to that level in response.Personally, I wish some of the others didn’t sink down to that level with you… they too can be better than that and don’t need to demean their own maturity by matching a childish p*ssing contest of silly insults with you.Hey, we’re all human and I can lose my cool and get down in the gutter too at times, so it happens to all of us.But I’m never proud of that and all I can do is try to use my own failings as reminders for why I need to try to do better in the future.

    It is always harder to build than destroy.It takes a lot of determination, practice and committment to break bad habits.Taking responsibility for your actions and accepting that you have to patiently understand and weather the long-term blow back that results takes a lot of self-discipline and maturity.However, that is really the only path to improvement, if you truly wish to grow and better yourself.

    You have to accept that you need to earn your way back in life to even ground zero…otherwise you’ll never get out of the hole you’re in and only dig yourself deeper.Running away from your problems and past won’t help either…that’s simply denying the issues that need to be fixed, instead of doing the hard work to address them…and you’ll always just end up making similar mistakes and damaging your reputation in new areas wherever you run.

    The only way to truly become a better man is to accept the reality and consequences of where you’ve put yourself in life and understand what it is about yourself that brings about your troubles and work with sincere determination and perserverance to change it.You must also learn to understand and accept that it can be a long and hard process and that it will take a lot of good will from you to earn back good will from others.

    One helfpul tip:The advantage of an online conversation is that you don’t have to respond to something right away.If you are in the wrong frame of mind or a bad mood, simply step away from the keyboard and come back when you have some distance and perspective.Review what you write before sending it and put yourself in the other person’s shoes and try to realize how it comes across and makes you look by saying it.

    G,

    Thank you for taking the time to write to me in detail. I agree with everything that you’ve said and everything that you’ve recommended.

  151. avatar
    Daniel May 13, 2011 at 1:30 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: As you can see from Doc Conspiracy’s latest remarks, he has absolutely no idea as to what he is talking about.

    That’s about the th time you’ve tried that lame ploy here.

    Tell me, has that ever worked for you… anywhere?

  152. avatar
    Daniel May 13, 2011 at 1:32 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: You are only digging yourself in deeper.

    Only deeper into the popcorn.

  153. avatar
    Daniel May 13, 2011 at 1:34 am #

    G: It is very easy for our emotions to take over when we are mocked or ridiculed.

    I suggest a better piece of advice for Lucas the Felon.

    If you don’t want to be ridiculed… don’t be ridiculous.

  154. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 13, 2011 at 1:36 am #

    Paul Pieniezny:…

    Dr. Conspiracy:…

    G:…

    Dear Paul Pieniezny,

    You should, honestly and sincerely, apply for a job with World Net Daily. You analyze data about as good as Jerome Corsi can write a book.

    People like you, and Corsi, lack insight and near all ability to think objectively.

    And now you are splitting hairs over employee/intern/volunteer? Would an intern not be considered an employee either? Would an intern’s report of daily events not be credible? Paul, when you visit a hospital do you bring a little sign with you that you wear on your little t-shirt which says, ‘No interns please, you interns don’t really work at the hospital, so don’t touch me and talk to me. Real doctors only please.’

    One thing is for certain Paul and that is that you don’t speak Dutch. Lie all you want but that still wont change the fact that you don’t have even a limited grasp on the Dutch language.

    I also find it odd that there is always an expert, on anything and everything, here on this blog. There always just happens to be someone that was born in such and such country or that speaks such and such language or that just happens to have a degree in specific area of research that we are debating.

    I’m going to make it easy for you and Dr Conspiracy and everyone else here:

    1. In March 2009 this intern had some business with the chief administrator: ‘Dit papierwerk bestond voornamelijk uit het invitatieformulier dat wij aan de ‘chief administrator’ moesten afgeven’

    2. Later, in April, she met Dr. Othigo for the first time: ‘Vandaag heb ik ook voor de eerste maal Dr. Othigo ontmoet. Zij is zowat de grote baas op de afdeling verloskunde.’

    If you translate these, you will see that she refers to meeting Dr. Othigo for the first time, and calls her something like the big boss of Obstetrics. So just who was the chief administrator she was referring to in March? Apparently, it was not Dr. Othigo.

    Paul, Doc, or anyone here is welcome to report back but please do try and exhibit a little integrity and don’t embellish your reply with claims of speaking foreign languages and having specialized degrees and having spent 20 or so years in such and such place or that your ex-wife/husband has some special connections related to this subject matter.

    Thanks.

  155. avatar
    Daniel May 13, 2011 at 1:39 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Dear Paul Pieniezny,

    You should, honestly and sincerely, apply for a job with World Net Daily. You analyze data about as good as Jerome Corsi can write a book.

    And yet the only person in this conversation that shares the same delusion as Corsi is….. YOU, Lucas the Felon

  156. avatar
    Daniel May 13, 2011 at 1:40 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: People like you…lack insight and near all ability to think objectively.

    I’m going to have to start buying these Irony Meters wholesale

  157. avatar
    Daniel May 13, 2011 at 1:42 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: And now you are splitting hairs over employee/intern/volunteer? Would an intern not be considered an employee either? Would an intern’s report of daily events not be credible? Paul, when you visit a hospital do you bring a little sign with you that you wear on your little t-shirt which says, No interns please, you interns don’t really work at the hospital, so don’t touch me and talk to me. Real doctors only please.’

    Translation…

    I could have daaaaaaanced all night. I could have daaaaaaanced all night…..

  158. avatar
    Benji Franklin May 13, 2011 at 1:43 am #

    WND tomorrow will be reporting: OBAMA’S SMOKING ELIGIBILITY GUN BOMBSHELL LEAK!
    We’ll learn how out of work steamboat captains’ cabin interns’ musings about bi-yearly songbird die-off in Little Rock, Arkansas makes it impossible for Obama to EVER be a
    Natural Born Citizen.
    Benji Franklin

  159. avatar
    Daniel May 13, 2011 at 1:44 am #

    Daniel: please do try and exhibit a little integrity and don’t embellish your reply with claims of speaking foreign languages and having specialized degrees and having spent 20 or so years in such and such place or that your ex-wife/husband has some special connections related to this subject matter.

    Look, I already told you my Irony meter supply was running low, and here you just busted another one wide open.

    Knock it off already….

  160. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 13, 2011 at 2:18 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: One thing is for certain Paul and that is that you don’t speak Dutch

    Lucas, if you had the basic sense to use google you would know that Paul has a personal bio posted, in Dutch, on on a Dutch web site. According to that site, he lives in Ghent, Belgium. It’s hard to say if he still lives there,, however, because that particular page hasn’t been edited since the summer of 2009. Given those facts it’s a pretty safe bet that Paul — or someone who shares his name — speaks Dutch.

    In any case, it is not necessary to take Paul’s word, as I, too, can read the relevant pages at http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com and easily ascertain that they do not provide the name of the then current chief administrator.

    But as I pointed out that is all irrelevant, as Kenyan birth certificates look nothing like the document you produced; birth certificates are not kept at hospitals; and hospital administrators don’t certify documents. You’re still trying to pass off a $25 bill as authentic by debating the color of the ink or the quality of the engraving.

    But your rage at the discovery that someone on the internet can read a web site in a foreign language is rather amusing.

  161. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny May 13, 2011 at 3:05 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: One thing is for certain Paul and that is that you don’t speak Dutch. Lie all you want but that still wont change the fact that you don’t have even a limited grasp on the Dutch language.

    I also find it odd that there is always an expert, on anything and everything, here on this blog. There always just happens to be someone that was born in such and such country or that speaks such and such language or that just happens to have a degree in specific area of research that we are debating.

    If you had been feeding your database of refutations (the one you use to be able to produce better forgeries) you would know I am a translator – I have been translating birth and marriage certificates and diplomas into Dutch (from Russian, English, German and occasionally even Polish and French). It is EU policy that translators should translate into their mother tongue. You should know that I have a diploma of Germanic languages from the University of Ghent – I mentioned it when we debated your argument about the two chief administrators at Ghent University Hospital (an obvious mistranslation of the Dutch version, where the English version should have called one person chief administrator and the othere one general manager). You are getting sloppy when checking the refutations of the outlandish arguments you keep plucking out of nowhere – how will you ever make the perfect Kenyan BC that way?

    Oh, and you could always have a look at Wikipedia. I have edited and even started articles at Dutch, English and Russian Wikipedia (my edits at the French, German, Polish and Swedish ones are minor).

    I’m going to make it easy for you and Dr Conspiracy and everyone else here:

    1. In March 2009 this intern had some business with the chief administrator: ‘Dit papierwerk bestond voornamelijk uit het invitatieformulier dat wij aan de chief administrator’ moesten afgeven’

    In fact, as can be gathered from here:
    http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com/
    after arriving at Mombasa on Wednesday, 3rd March and visiting the Belgian consulate, Bart and his friend/colleague (I can assure you Bart is male), they visited the hospital for the first time the next day, Thursday.The business they had with Othigo then was handing in their invitation form, their introduction papers. If you read on in the paragraph, you will notice that they could not do that, because “the machine was broken” and administrative hell broke loose, as Kenyans seem to be attach a lot of importance to the precise administrative rules and regulations.

    There is no implication there that they actually met the Chief Administrator. In fact, the implication rather is that they did NOT meet (wishing I could underline NOT here like Berg is always doing). In Belgian Dutch, ” wij moesten” (normally past tense of a verb meaning need to, like Polish music) means “we were supposed to”.

    By the way, when people in Belgium hand in papers at town or village hall, they get them back signed by the Mayor or the Civil Administration alderman. Handing papers in does not mean you get to meet the guy or lady.

    2. Later, in April, she met Dr. Othigo for the first time: ‘Vandaag heb ik ook voor de eerste maal Dr. Othigo ontmoet. Zij is zowat de grote baas op de afdeling verloskunde.’

    If you translate these, you will see that she refers to meeting Dr. Othigo for the first time, and calls her something like the big boss of Obstetrics. So just who was the chief administrator she was referring to in March? Apparently, it was not Dr. Othigo.

    Er no, from the version above, which you yourself linked to before, it is clear Bart (who I repeat is a man) met Othigo the next Tuesday, March the 10th. It is clear from what follows, that though Othigo is very good at delivering babies, it is not her primary job. And like MichaelN, you are omitting an important sentence that follows:

    “Deze fors gebouwde madam zou ook wat moeten instaan voor de begeleiding tijdens mijn stage verloskunde. Ik vrees echter dat ik haar maar heel zelden te zien zal krijgen.”

    Translation: “This rather corpulent lady is also suppose to give some supervision during our obstetrics internship. I am afriad I will not meet her very often, however.”

    Perhaps a refernce to the administrative conundrum of the Thursday?
    The word “madam” marks this text as Belgian Dutch, by the way. Though most of the blog would be intelligible to educated Dutch speakers from the Netherlands as well.

  162. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny May 13, 2011 at 3:14 am #

    Expelliarmus: In any case, it is not necessary to take Paul’s word, as I, too, can read the relevant pages at http://mzungubartinkenia.blogspot.com and easily ascertain that they do not provide the name of the then current chief administrator.

    Thanks, I forgot to point that out in my reply just now. Lucas is relying on two short blog texts by an intern who never met the chief administrator and does not mention the name of the administrator. You would not even be able to create doubt or discussion on Wikipedia using these quotes.

    However, I do agree that while the net result is the same, Lucas is obviously much better at “The Google” than Orly Taitz.

  163. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny May 13, 2011 at 3:23 am #

    Paul Pieniezny: after arriving at Mombasa on Wednesday, 3rd March and visiting the Belgian consulate, Bart and his friend/colleague (I can assure you Bart is male), they visited the hospital for the first time the next day, Thursday.

    And now, I made a calculation error with the dates, based on the info in the shorter blogs. It was of course, Wednesday, 4th March.

  164. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 13, 2011 at 3:51 am #

    Paul Pieniezny: And now, I made a calculation error with the dates, based on the info in the shorter blogs. It was of course, Wednesday, 4th March.

    Paul Pienziezny,

    You sound like Jerome Corsi.

    At any rate, you still don’t get the point of all this.

    The point is that the Chief Admin that they met in March 2009 was NOT Othigo.

    The Chief Admin that they meet in April 2009 WAS Othigo.

    Are you having trouble understanding this?

    The Obama Kenyan birth certificate was stamped on February 19, 2009. Are you understanding now?

    Are you making clear sense of the argument now?

    Word of advice to you, don’t ever waste your time writing a detective novel, ok?

    Thanks.

  165. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 13, 2011 at 4:03 am #

    Paul Pieniezny:…

    “Vandaag heb ik ook voor de eerste maal Dr. Othigo ontmoet.”

    Translation: “Today for the first time I met Dr. Othigo.

    You understand, Paul? The FIRST time they meet Othigo was in April 2009.

    The Chief Admin that they meet in March 2009 could NOT have been Othigo because they met her, for the FIRST time, in April 2009.

    Even Jerome Corsi would have figured this one out by now.

    Take a nap and drink a vitamin water before you reply again.

  166. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 13, 2011 at 4:07 am #

    Paul Pieniezny: However, I do agree that while the net result is the same, Lucas is obviously much better at “The Google” than Orly Taitz.

    I’m not so sure. As I pointed out, Lucas wasn’t even able to Google your name.

    .

  167. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 13, 2011 at 4:39 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: Translation: “Today for the first time I met Dr. Othigo.

    You understand, Paul? The FIRST time they meet Othigo was in April 2009.

    The entry you quote is from Tuesday, March 10th. There are no entries in April.

    We know that they arrive for their internship in early March because of the post labeled “Maandag 2 maart 2009”, which in English means Monday, 2 March 2009, and the post above that is the notation “Week 1 ‘Karibu’ (Welkom)” They are supposed to deliver papers to the chief administrator on Thursday, 5 March, but it is obvious from their blog post that things are messed up and things don’t go as planned. No mention of a name for the administrator.

    Then comes their 2nd week, “Week 2 Maandag 9 maart 2009” (“Maandag” still means Monday, “maart” is still March”) They meet Dr Othigo on Tuesday of that week, which would have to be March 10, being that it is the day after March 9th. Dr. Othigo is ” de grote baas” which means “the big boss”.

    What is particularly telling about the blog is that there is no mention whatsoever of meeting Heltan Maganga.. So you are trying to claim that Maganga was chief administrator in February, it would have been a big help to you if his name had popped up on that blog… but it didn’t.

  168. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 13, 2011 at 4:45 am #

    P.S. I am not fluent in Dutch. However, my job does require me to read material in multiple languages. It isn’t rocket science to figure out that Maart=March.

  169. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith May 13, 2011 at 5:14 am #

    Paul Pieniezny:…

    Paul,

    I withdraw my argument.

    I see now that you do, in fact, understand Dutch and that you understand that blog much better than I do.

    There is still something strange about the two meetings, even with the meetings being only a day apart. But the wording isn’t clear and furthermore I am relying on an online translation which makes the wording (at least to me) even more unclear.

    I admit when I’ve made a mistake. I’ve made a mistake.

    You are right and I am wrong.

    I only wish that others on this blog, and elsewhere, could admit when they are wrong or in error.

    I really don’t see what is wrong, or why it so difficult for people on this blog, to admit when one is wrong or when one has made a mistake.

    Thank you Paul correcting me on these point tonight about the dutch blog.

  170. avatar
    roadburner May 13, 2011 at 6:42 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: I admit when I’ve made a mistake. .

    do you heck as like!

    still waiting for your proof that the british kenyan protectorate used both american and english numerical date formats, but as yet you appear to be unable to present any.

    soooo, are you gonna admit you´re wrong here or actually present something concrete?

  171. avatar
    AnotherBird May 13, 2011 at 7:14 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: So, you wanted me to turn my already overly lengthy comment into more of a book length? You couldn’t just deduce that I was talking about maybe some of the countries in Africa? Your mind told you that I was must be talking about the entire continent?You really assumed that I must be referring to Africa as a country?

    And what do you know about Ethiopia?What are you, Wikipedia or something?

    I get tired of pasty face crackers nowadays that use Wikipedia entries as a substitute for real life experiences.

    Your like the studious white guys that try to write about black culture based on your one wild night back when your were twenty-one in college when you and your buds’ ventured into the ‘ghetto’ for the thrill of and it also possibly to me some illegal drug.

    I’ve spent years abroad in what the developed’ countries call the undeveloped’ countries and I can tell you for fact that most of those people don’t give a damn about dates, times and records. Life wasn’t meant to be all about IDs, birth certificates and times and dates and records and permits and licenses and stamps and taxes.

    Also I really like how you summed my entire very over lengthy comment up with a simple insult about Africa being a continent rather than a country.

    Your brilliant.Simply brilliant.

    Mr. Smith please take the time and re-read your comment. You started by criticizing others about their knowledge of Africa, by showing the same mind-set that you are being critical. That is the same-European centric view.

    A board brush on the importance of dates, ignores the importance the reason why some cultures keep records.

  172. avatar
    misha May 13, 2011 at 8:01 am #

    Paul Pieniezny: If you had been feeding your database of refutations (the one you use to be able to produce better forgeries) you would know I am a translator

    Lucas: I found Obama’s authentic Kenya BC. It was written in Esperanto, and I translated it into English. See for yourself.

  173. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny May 13, 2011 at 8:46 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: You are right and I am wrong.

    And here again you show yourself better than Orly Taitz, who will nver admit she was wrong on some point.

    Let me grant you this:

    1) thinking part of the blog was written in April, was an honest mistake to make, unfortunately it destroys part of your argument.

    2) you could not possibly have known of the double meaning of “moesten afgeven”

    3) while the blog is useless as an argument for your position, it does not prove the opposite either – it does look like Othigo was acting (as the?) administrator at the beginning of March.

  174. avatar
    gorefan May 13, 2011 at 10:24 am #

    Paul Pieniezny: it does look like Othigo was acting (as the?) administrator at the beginning of March.

    Dr. Othigo may have been only in the position on a temporary basis. There are a number of references to Dr Khadija Shikely as the chief administrator at CPGH. Apparently, Dr. Shikely was the chief administrator for a number of years. Up until at least March of 2008.

  175. avatar
    Rickey May 13, 2011 at 11:16 am #

    Paul Pieniezny: And here again you show yourself better than Orly Taitz, who will never admit she was wrong on some point.

    You did a superb job of destroying Lucas’ arguments (it was amusing to see him accuse you of not knowing Dutch while he was relying on Google Translate or some similar online translator), but I wouldn’t give him too much credit for making a concession.

    Faced with absolute, undeniable proof that he is wrong, a con artist such as Lucas has no choice but to admit that he is wrong. Not only does he lose all credibility if he continues to insist that he is correct, he actually (and perversely) gains credibility by admitting his mistake.

    However, credibility is not Lucas’ strong suit. He steadfastly refuses to provide proof that he visited Kenya in 2009. He cannot explain how he could have gotten a birth certificate from CPGH, when it has been established that hospitals do not issue birth certificates in Kenya. He cannot explain why his supposed birth certificate shows Dr. Maganga as the chief administrator of the hospital, when all available records demonstrate that Dr. Maganga did not hold that position at that time. He cannot explain why Dr. Maganga’s name is misspelled on the birth certificate. He cannot explain why his birth certificate uses the month-day-year format for the date, when every official Kenyan document which we have seen uses the day-month-year format. Finally, he seems to be arguing that the two letters posted at WND are authentic, but he cannot explain why the Kenyan government supposedly spent fruitless months searching for Obama’s birth certificate, yet Lucas was able to get a copy in one day by simply bribing a few people.

    Lucas Smith is an intelligent person, but he is a serial liar and appears to have other major issues as well. He needs help, but I fear that we are being enablers by continuing to engage him in his fantasies.

  176. avatar
    G May 13, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: G,
    Thank you for taking the time to write to me in detail. I agree with everything that you’ve said and everything that you’ve recommended.

    You’re welcome.

    I honestly do wish you the best of luck and encourangement on working towards your personal improvement and betterment and eventually becoming something better then where your past actions and statements have left you…

    I totally emphathize on the reality of how difficult that road of recovery will be and I will continue to hold out hope that you sincerely want and are capable of finding a way to let go of some of the impulse reactions and behaviors that keep getting you into trouble and that your own inherent defense mechanisms for lashing out and issuing retorts can often work against you.

    I do not envy the difficult position you’ve put yourself in…but it can be overcome with time and significant sincere effort on your part. To do so will definitely test your patience to the limit, but you must be willing to perservere for your own sake.

    I will try to remain kind, supporting and helpful as long as I can. But part of being helpful means I also need to bluntly point out to you every time you fall…because you might be too close to your own situation to realize when you’re just doing further harm to yourself.

    Please note that I have no illusions about your past and your ability to con others and to embellish, so even though you have my encouragement, you also have my continued skepticism. I am not here to be your “mark” and although I will remain hopeful for you, you must accept and understand that at the same time I take your words with a grain of salt. I’m just being open, fair and straight with you, that’s all.

  177. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny May 13, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    Rickey: Faced with absolute, undeniable proof that he is wrong, a con artist such as Lucas has no choice but to admit that he is wrong. Not only does he lose all credibility if he continues to insist that he is correct, he actually (and perversely) gains credibility by admitting his mistake.

    Agreed. The Maganga thing was part of a con. We will see how he will change his story. Will he finally go for broke and claim he was conned himself?

    It would help if he showed real evidence that he visited Kenya in 2009.

    Like it would help if that other person explained what she was doing in Romania in the 1980s.

  178. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 13, 2011 at 11:55 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: I admit when I’ve made a mistake. I’ve made a mistake.

    This once you did – good for you! Do you want a cookie? You haven’t, however, admitted you’ve made a myriad of other mistakes regarding the POSFKBC (either mistakes when you forged it or obvious errors that should have alerted you to the fact that it was a forgery [if you bribed someone for it and then later tried to determine its authenticity]). A partial list (the top ten reasons that Lucas Smith can’t be trusted [in no particular order]):

    1. Date format

    2. BC format (doesn’t match contemporary Kenyan BCs)

    3. President Obama’s verified BC (the LFBC shows that the COLB was legit – in 2008)

    4. Unusual birth statistics (width between shoulders)

    5. Physically aberrant birth statistics (outside the norm – unlike President Obama)

    6. Wrong administrator

    7. Administrator misspelled his own name (in his signature and on his stamp)

    8. Birth date proves Obama senior couldn’t have been there (having classes in Hawai’i)

    9. Overwhelming evidence sufficient to any person except irrational bigots puts Dr. Dunham in Kapiolani Hospital in Hawai’i on that day.

    10. The lack of any evidence whatsoever that you, Lucas Smith, have ever been to Kenya, let alone at the time in question.

    And I’m sure that I’ve missed some. This is why people call you names Mr. Smith – because you are clearly lying about something, most likely many things, and you are doing it for motives that are either venal (greed) or seditious. Neither possibility speaks well of you as a human being…

    You are right and I am wrong.

    And that’s not the only issue on which the obots are right and you are wrong – are you willing to admit to all of the errors listed above?

    I only wish that others on this blog, and elsewhere, could admit when they are wrong or in error.

    I can’t recall a single case of an obot here that was caught making a mistake (a real mistake, not a birther straw man…) and didn’t admit their error – in fact, many of the obots here have corrected their own mistakes before anyone else noticed (something I’ve never seen a birther do…).

    I really don’t see what is wrong, or why it so difficult for people on this blog, to admit when one is wrong or when one has made a mistake.

    You’re projecting again, Mr. Smith – it reeks of hypocrisy and ignorance.

  179. avatar
    G May 13, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    Lucas D. Smith: I only wish that others on this blog, and elsewhere, could admit when they are wrong or in error.

    Lucas, if you openly and honestly spent the time reviewing this blog, you will see numerous references where various posters, myself and yes, even Doc C. have recognized and concluded that they were in error / mistaken about some detail or issue and openly acknowledged it and that point and made any corrections necessary.

    People who look at a conversation as some sort of game of needing to “win” an argument are missing the whole point. The real point of the convesation should be to get to the bottom of an issue and arrive at some sort of understanding.

    The perspective of “right” vs. “wrong” is the wrong approach. What really is important is being “correct” at the end. That includes being corrected. There is no shame in learning new info that results in a correct conclusion in the end. If one is corrected and via that correction, now arrives at the correct result, that truly is still a “win” for them.

    People who take the opposite approach and fear they just have to be “right” at all costs have really “lost” from the very start. You have to start with assumptions and yes, it is human nature to have a guess as to where those assumptions will lead… But if you make the mistake of locking yourself into a predetermined conclusion before all the process analysis completes, you’ll never gain anything and are merely wasting time in the process.

    A key to gaining wisdom is being able to easily admit mistakes, learn from them, correct for them and move on from there.

  180. avatar
    Daniel May 13, 2011 at 12:06 pm #

    Rickey: I wouldn’t give him (Lucas) too much credit for making a concession.

    I agree. It’s easy to begrudgingly admit to being wrong when you’ve been destroyed, especially when it gives you an opportunity to take a parting shot at the “crackers”.

    I’d be impressed if, when presented with plausible alternatives, he had willingly given them honest examination against his own premise.

    Lucas certainly does have the mind of a criminal. He needs to make sure that even defeat has some profit.

  181. avatar
    NBC May 13, 2011 at 12:44 pm #

    I really wish that people on this blog would research their claims before they just jot down the first drivel that pops into their minds. Verify your claims before your make wild and unchecked accusations rather than recycling the last guy’s/gal’s erroneous and misinformation/disinformation filled hodgepodge of wild, chaotic, unchecked, unbridled, unchecked accusations.

    Oh the irony…

  182. avatar
    gorefan May 13, 2011 at 12:54 pm #

    Rickey: Not only does he lose all credibility if he continues to insist that he is correct,

    In Smith’s case, that ship sailed a long time ago.

  183. avatar
    gorefan May 13, 2011 at 1:25 pm #

    Paul Pieniezny: Will he finally go for broke and claim he was conned himself?

    I suspect that is the fallback position. It’s the “I’m also a victim” position.

  184. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 13, 2011 at 3:15 pm #

    Rickey: Faced with absolute, undeniable proof that he is wrong, a con artist such as Lucas has no choice but to admit that he is wrong. Not only does he lose all credibility if he continues to insist that he is correct, he actually (and perversely) gains credibility by admitting his mistake.

    The error with blog demonstrates a lack of attention to detail that is consistent with the issues surrounding Maganga’s name on the certificate. Smith does the first step of “research” but jumps to conclusions and doesn’t follow through to verify what he has first found. So he found information on a blog, but didn’t take the time to carefully ascertain the dates on the printed page (he just made a mistaken assumption). Similarly, he apparently saw Maganga’s name, misspelled, in an article referencing him in July but didn’t take the time to determine when Maganga had first taken that position.

  185. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) May 13, 2011 at 3:44 pm #

    Expelliarmus: The error with blog demonstrates a lack of attention to detail that is consistent with the issues surrounding Maganga’s name on the certificate. Smith does the first step of “research” but jumps to conclusions and doesn’t follow through to verify what he has first found. So he found information on a blog, but didn’t take the time to carefully ascertain the dates on the printed page (he just made a mistaken assumption). Similarly, he apparently saw Maganga’s name, misspelled, in an article referencing him in July but didn’t take the time to determine when Maganga had first taken that position.

    Which is exactly why Maganga’s name is misspelled and appears on his forgery.

  186. avatar
    Northland10 May 13, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    Expelliarmus: demonstrates a lack of attention to detail… and doesn’t follow through to verify what he has first found.

    This also demonstrates the difference between a good forgery and a bad one:

    1. Attention to detail
    2. Research
    3. Patience
    4. 2-5 years.

  187. avatar
    AdrianInEngland May 13, 2011 at 8:00 pm #

    I have yet to see conclusive evidence from the government of Canada refuting my gut feeling that Sarah Palin was born in Canada to Canadian parents and adopted by the Heath family at a later date. When will someone finally vet Palin’s NBC status????? 😉

  188. avatar
    JJ May 19, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy,

    Here is Emmanuel Kisombe’s email address (from his official Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Emmanuel-Kisombe-Mwatibo/198216120193506): ekmwatibo@yahoo.com Why don’t you ask him to confirm or deny that he wrote those two letters?

    JJ

  189. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 19, 2011 at 10:20 pm #

    JJ: Why don’t you ask him to confirm or deny that he wrote those two letters?

    There are a couple of reasons why I don’t.

    First, no one would believe my report who can’t already see that they are fakes on the face of it. If a birther put on his blog that he had asked the question and got confirmation of the letters, I wouldn’t believe it — so why should I expect a birther to believe me? This is what we have news organizations for.

    The second reason is that I wouldn’t expect a reply. Kenyans, as I have found, are not responsive to nutty Americans who email them out of the blue.

    And finally, if I even got so far as to convince him to state on his own Facebook page that he didn’t write the letters, birthers would just say he was covering up.

  190. avatar
    The Magic M May 20, 2011 at 4:41 am #

    You can be quite sure that birthers will have mailed him because they’d simply love to put a “authenticity confirmed by the writer” on their blogs.
    Obviously they either got no response at all or a negative one which is why they remain silent (and yes, I’m aware I’m using the “absence of proof is proof of absence” birther style argument here ;)).
    Quite likely the latter, otherwise they would have asked their minions to inundate the guy with requests or the Pee and Eee would have written another whiny letter.

  191. avatar
    aaron fleszar May 20, 2011 at 12:15 pm #

    IS THIS BEST OBAMA CONSPIRACY THEORY?

    HERE IS MORE PROOF THAT THE OSAMA BIN LADEN KILLED, DEATH OF OSAMA BIN LADEN, OBL/UBL DEAD STORY, IS CLEARLY MADE UP.

    It’s all about timing. In case you haven’t noticed, message board comments are being deleted and altered at a number of major news sites. The majority of people posting at these sites are posting meaningless comments as a distraction from anyone with a logical argument. The feds are running these boards and now appear to be optimizing in search with headlines of made up stories. Most major US news sites, the ones ranking highest in search engines, require that your comment is moderated. My story below is never posted at a moderated site and is often deleted quickly when I can get it posted. These moderated sites are now optimizing in search engines with headlines like Osama wanted to kill Obama and Osama wanted to assassinate Biden. Obama caught Osama, and here is a list of Osama Bin Laden Conspiracy Theories. The truth is being silenced by clogging the internet with garbage stories no one can comment on and those that do comment, work for the federal government. Want proof, read the idiotic comments that are highest rated on Yahoo and tell me why they rate so high?

    This is the story the federal government is covering up. This is a code I cracked online 6 months before the presidential election. When I reported it to the FBI, my entire family’s lives, my life, and everyone I care about, has been destroyed. I’ve been told “I can’t know what I know, who am I to question the federal government,” and that I “embarrassed the professionals who do this stuff for a living.” Are these the same professionals that had every thing under control on the morning of 9/11?

    My name is Aaron and back in 2006 I set out to find a way to make money online and ended up learning a lot more than I bargained for by cracking a code no one ever knew existed.

    Scam artists have cornered the market on affiliate marketing education. Their sites use aliases, bogus whois info, and registrations in different states and countries. What are they hiding?

    After many years researching, a link appeared on Armand Morin’s blog to Al-Qaeda. A number of these con artist’s faces matched up with the FBI’s MOST WANTED TERRORISTS.

    Here are wanted terrorists, some for U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya & Indonesia. Do these two places ring any bells?

    Search Google Images for;
    Mark Joyner Simpleology-Seif Al Adel (Sarah Palin’s book Palinology)
    John Ferrero-Ramadan Shallah
    Yaro Starak-Umar Patek
    Armand Morin-Noordin M Top (said to have been killed in Indonesia and now removed from the FBI’s most wanted list)
    Michael Filsaime-Ali Sayyid Muhamed Mustafa al-Bakri (Die Hard 4 “Fire Sale” The cyber attack on our infrastructure)
    Dr. Mani Sivasubramanian-Ammar Mansour Bouslim
    Carl Galletti-Ahmed Garbaya, Samir Salwwan
    Ted Ciuba-Abdul Rahman Yasin

    Many get rich quick scams serve as product placement for new cutting edge internet technologies, and logos, some sold through Clickbank. The people appearing in testimonials are part of the expansion of this organization and are often pitching other high priced products and services. They all link to one another through their marketing strategies and ability to optimize in search rankings.

    Between the aliases the use, and the way in which they speak about things, everything they do has double meaning. There faces in Google image search is similar to the picture book of symbols mentioned in The Da Vinci Code. Here is a code of look a likes pitching all sorts of stuff who are interconnected.

    Selling a program on making millions online is Professor James Bradley who looks like the Pentagon bomber Bill Ayers.

    Jay Conrad Levinson is behind a number of “guerilla” marketing and advertising books. He looks like George Soros, who’s last name is a (palin)drome. Soros has been credited for collapsing a number of nation’s currencies. George Soros has been quoted several times regarding his views on a New World Order.

    The Super Affiliate Handbook is sold by someone who looks like Jill Biden, her name is Rosalind Gardner. Some appear to represent people, more in how they pose, rather then a direct look a like. Stephen Pierce appears to represent radical Van Jones, Brett McFall-Austan Goolsbee, John Childers-Andy Stern, and Jay Abraham as Ayman al-Zawahri.

    Problem with your Google Adwords PPC ads and can’t get a straight answer? You could try Yanik Silver who looks a lot like Sergei Brin, but he probably won’t know. He sells 33 Days to Online Profits (prophets.) Why not try Perry Marshall, who looks like Obama’s priest Reverend Pfleger? He sells The Definitive Guide To Google Adwords, infringing upon Google’s trademark.

    Many more can be seen at Lorrie Morgan Ferrero’s Red-Hot-Copy blog such as; 72 Virgin Records Richard Branson, & White House Party Crashers the Salahi’s with Valerie Jarrett’s daughter.

    The Rich Jerk sent out emails promoting Stompernet in Atlanta Georgia. The staff included Brad Fallon, an airline pilot, and Eben Pagan selling a seminar “Get Altitude”. 3 days after reporting this code to the FBI, Delta in Atlanta canceled a large number of flights due to safety reasons. In the Youtube videos related to the Rich Jerk, it appears that Mark Cuban is the Rich Jerk. He’s the billionaire who owns the Dallas Maverick’s basketball team. Think O’bomber or Barrac-uda Palin would play for him? Another guy seen on Youtube claiming to be Robert Johnson Rich Jerk, is Tony Rezko.

    Obama announced his run for office on Oprah Winfrey’s show. Have you ever noticed that Oprah’s shopping friend Gayle King looks a lot like Whitney Houston? Did you ever think that her name could be a code, Whit_ney White-Hous_ton House?

    It appears the internet marketing experts controlled the comments, the headlines, and the finance of the last election online with the highest ranking site in Google search, Youtube.

    In my strongest opinion this is the last piece of the puzzle, Osama Bin Laden is also a spokesperson, and a look-a-like. Osama represents Obama/Biden (Bi)n La(den.)

    NOT CONVINCED THAT THE DEATH OF OSAMA BIN LADEN IS A CONSPIRACY? THEN WHY HAS THIS BEEN DELETED REPEATEDLY FROM MAJOR NEWS SITES? TRY POSTING THIS ON ANY POLITICAL NEWS SITE SUCH AS THE DAILY CALLER, OR MEDIAITE, AND WATCH HOW QUICK IT’S DELETED. MAJOR US NEWS SITES ARE ALL BEING MODERATED BY THE FEDS WHICH WILL NOT ALLOW THIS STORY TO GAIN TRACTION.

  192. avatar
    JoZeppy May 20, 2011 at 12:41 pm #

    aaron fleszar: NOT CONVINCED THAT THE DEATH OF OSAMA BIN LADEN IS A CONSPIRACY? THEN WHY HAS THIS BEEN DELETED REPEATEDLY FROM MAJOR NEWS SITES? TRY POSTING THIS ON ANY POLITICAL NEWS SITE SUCH AS THE DAILY CALLER, OR MEDIAITE, AND WATCH HOW QUICK IT’S DELETED. MAJOR US NEWS SITES ARE ALL BEING MODERATED BY THE FEDS WHICH WILL NOT ALLOW THIS STORY TO GAIN TRACTION.

    It was deleted because many moderated boards delete spam like yours.

    If this garbage showed up on a board I ran, I delete it too. I guess that must mean I’m just part of the conspiracy.

  193. avatar
    Scientist May 20, 2011 at 12:45 pm #

    JoZeppy: It was deleted because many moderated boards delete spam like yours.

    Frankly, it’s really no worse than the stuff the average birther posts. At least this guy is honest about wanting to make a buck.

  194. avatar
    misha May 20, 2011 at 1:06 pm #

    aaron fleszar: In case you haven’t noticed, message board comments are being deleted and altered at a number of major news sites.

    It happened to me, too. In fact, someone showed up at my door, dressed as a high ranking German army officer, selling subscriptions to Life magazine. I saw through the ruse. If he was really selling subscriptions, he would have been dressed as a college student.

    Also, if you read Genesis in Aramaic backwards, it reveals Glenn Beck is secretly a Jew, and Soros is helping him cover up his rape and murder in 1990. No one on this blog believes me, but I know I can count on you.

  195. avatar
    obsolete May 20, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    aaron fleszar: Have you ever noticed that Oprah’s shopping friend Gayle King looks a lot like Whitney Houston? Did you ever think that her name could be a code, Whit_ney White-Hous_ton House?

    Well, your post made complete, total, logical and brilliant sense- up until this point.
    Now I am not so sure… 😎
    I guess I am a little confused- Are you trying to sell me a kidney, or invite me to a Bobby Brown concert?