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WTBC: the impact

So what, exactly, is the impact of Jerome Corsi’s new anti-Obama book, Where’s the Birth Certificate? (WTBC) It may have had a marginal impact here as shown by the following graph.

Visits to Obama Conspiracy Theories

The graph shows visits to Obama Conspiracy Theories. The release of WTBC is concurrent with similar levels of interest to the waning cycle of the Donald Trump shenanigans.

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84 Responses to WTBC: the impact

  1. avatar
    Obsolete May 21, 2011 at 6:02 pm #

    The book release got Corsi’s publicist RIO to come here and start posting advertisements for a ridiculously outdated book.

  2. avatar
    Suranis May 21, 2011 at 6:12 pm #

    Of special interest to Retired Intelligence Officer;

    While I was at work today, about 12 hours ago, O checked WTBC’s rating on Amazon. It was at number 15.

    I checked when I got home, about 5 hours ago, it was at 17.

    As I type right now, its at 21.

    Still more than enough to put money in Farah and Corsis pocket. Not enough for you lot to celebrate. And it means that indications are that it has peaked.

  3. avatar
    Obsolete May 21, 2011 at 6:14 pm #

    I wonder how many sales of Corsi’s POS book were lost because the majority of his target audience didn’t order it because they didn’t think it would be delivered in time for today’s apocalypse.

  4. avatar
    richCares May 21, 2011 at 6:38 pm #

    basically, the graph shows AFTERBIRTHERS, a deluded segment of the last of the Birthers, these are primarily residents of BirfirStan which is where ‘enry Higgens lives. Their motto is “Any Day Now” and favorite drink is KoolAid and they love shouting “Usurper” while eating bull.

  5. avatar
    Retired Intelligence Officer May 21, 2011 at 6:49 pm #

    More evidence uncovered confirming a forgery was made.

    “White Copy” not Made Directly from Certified Copy
    http://butterdezillion.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/white-copy-not-made-directly-from-certified-copy1.pdf

    And also:

    http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2011/05/06/white-copy-not-directly-from-certified-copy/

    White Copy” Not Directly From Certified Copy
    This needs to be in a PDF so you can see the images.

    When Obama made copies of the birth certificate to distribute to the media, the paper he copied from was thin enough to let print from a page behind it show up on the scan. I and another person tested security paper to see if it is thin enough for a scan to pick up print from a page behind it – mine being my daughter’s death certificate and Danae’s being the actual green security paper that the HDOH uses to print certified copies on. Security paper does not allow this “image bleedthrough”.

    What the press was given in their 6-page packet of photocopies was NOT a copy taken directly from the certified birth certificate on security paper. It was a copy taken from a print-out – most likely a printout of the layered, manipulable PDF of the birth certificate.

    IOW, not only was the green copy specifically scanned into a manipulable form, but the white copy is from a print-out which also could have been manipulated. Everything Obama has offered is the result of specific steps taken to allow manipulation.

    So we’ve got a problem with what is missing, since there is no tangible evidence of a birth certificate with a raised seal. (See http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2011/05/04/long-form-forgery-for-dummies/ )

    And we’ve got a problem with what was actually presented, because both the PDF and the white copy were specifically processed to allow manipulation.

  6. avatar
    richCares May 21, 2011 at 7:17 pm #

    the other day I asked a Rapturist if I good have his car, I saw him a short time ago and asked how his rapture went considering nothing happened, he said “…it’s not 5:00 PM yet (it’s currently 4:15 PDT). Was that you RIO?

  7. avatar
    Obsolete May 21, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    If RIO has been following birther events for a while, he would know that Butterdezillion is one of the least credible people he could quote.
    She is batsh!t insane and I feel very sorry for him if he is going to follow her down the rabbit hole.

  8. avatar
    Obsolete May 21, 2011 at 7:25 pm #

    RIO:
    “You should care that the Constitution has been violated.”

    The only people trying to violate the Constitution are you and other birthers trying to overturn a free and fair election.

    How ling before you join other birthers in calling for a military coup to “save the Constitution”?

  9. avatar
    Stanislaw May 21, 2011 at 7:28 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: Your Alinsky tactics won’t work. You should care that the Constitution has been violated.

    The Constitution has been violated? Did the birthers actually succeed in getting the courts to remove the President from office? No?

    Then the Constitution hasn’t been violated. Do you ever get tired of lying to people that are smarter than you?

  10. avatar
    Suranis May 21, 2011 at 7:30 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: Your Alinsky tactics won’t work. You should care that the Constitution has been violated.

    The only people following Alinsky tactics are Andrew Braitbart and that guy that selectively edits videos in an attempt to destroy organizations. And Corsi and Farah.

  11. avatar
    richCares May 21, 2011 at 7:32 pm #

    like I said, he’s totally deluded. Beyond help, mostly likely he’s been disowned by his family, really sad.He should climb on his roof and shout as loud as he can “USURPER” for 20 minutes each day untill Obama leaves office in 2016. May be good theraphy for him. But nothing in his life will change for the better, poor guy, his delusions now control him.

  12. avatar
    Suranis May 21, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: When Obama made copies of the birth certificate to distribute to the media, the paper he copied from was thin enough to let print from a page behind it show up on the scan.

    What, you mean the vault copy that’s kept in a book with thousands of other vital records and that’s never on security paper?

    This reminds me of Polarik making a huge deal out of artifacts he found in the Released and fact check images, only to have it pointed out (my me, here) that all that proved is that the online image and the Factcheck COLBs were of the same document.

  13. avatar
    Obsolete May 21, 2011 at 7:40 pm #

    If the U.S. Treasury prints the bills, they are Genuine.
    If the Hawaiian DOH prints the birth certificate, it is Genuine.

    Before proceeding further, RIO must explain to us exactly when he believes the forgery entered the chain. I don’t think he deserves any further dialogue until he answers tis simple question.

    Again:
    RIO, exactly when was the forgery entered into the chain? At what point, exactly?

  14. avatar
    Retired Intelligence Officer May 21, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    Obsolete: RIO:“You should care that the Constitution has been violated.”The only people trying to violate the Constitution are you and other birthers trying to overturn a free and fair election. How ling before you join other birthers in calling for a military coup to “save the Constitution”?

    The election was not fair. OCON forms were manipulated and omitted the Constitutional elgibility wording allowing a Usurper with born allegiance to the British Crown was allowed to be on the ballot. That was not the founders intent when they formed Article 2 Section 1, especially when we just finished a war with the Brits for our independence. Obama has created a forgery at a desperate attempt to remain in power and undermine the Constitution.

  15. avatar
    Stanislaw May 21, 2011 at 7:54 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: The election was not fair. OCON forms were manipulated and omitted the Constitutional elgibility wording allowing a Usurper with born allegiance to the British Crown was allowed to be on the ballot. That was not the founders intent when they formed Article 2 Section 1, especially when we just finished a war with the Brits for our independence. Obama has created a forgery at a desperate attempt to remain in power and undermine the Constitution.

    So much delusional ignorance in one post, from the meaning of the word usurper to the meaning of Article 2 Section 1 of the Constitution to the mistaken belief that the long-form birth certificate is a forgery despite the fact that the state of Hawaii issued it to him and the information on that birth certificate is as true now as it was when the President was born in Hawaii in 1961.

    Like every other birther in existence, you would be funny if you weren’t so sad.

  16. avatar
    Suranis May 21, 2011 at 8:00 pm #

    What the hell do OCON forms have to do with President Obama wining an extremely tough primary and then winning a landslide result in an election?

    Also, President Obama signed every form he was asked to certifying he was a natural born citizen. When the Oklahoma birther bill is signed Obama will comply with it. There is no there there.

  17. avatar
    richCares May 21, 2011 at 8:00 pm #

    “at a desperate attempt to remain in power and undermine the Constitution.”
    silly me, I thought there was an election.

  18. avatar
    Daniel May 21, 2011 at 8:09 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: The election was not fair.

    It’s not FAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

    Sob, stomp, sob, stomp…

  19. avatar
    Daniel May 21, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: The election was not fair. OCON forms were manipulated and omitted the Constitutional elgibility wording allowing a Usurper with born allegiance to the British Crown was allowed to be on the ballot. That was not the founders intent when they formed Article 2 Section 1, especially when we just finished a war with the Brits for our independence. Obama has created a forgery at a desperate attempt to remain in power and undermine the Constitution.

    So why spend all your time bitching about it here when you could be busy winning your case in court?

    Why not put your money where your considerable mouth is?

    Scared you just might be proven wrong?

    Coward.

  20. avatar
    katahdin May 21, 2011 at 8:17 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: The election was not fair. OCON forms were manipulated and omitted the Constitutional eligibility wording allowing a Usurper with born allegiance to the British Crown was allowed to be on the ballot. That was not the founders intent when they formed Article 2 Section 1, especially when we just finished a war with the Brits for our independence. Obama has created a forgery at a desperate attempt to remain in power and undermine the Constitution.
    If you can answer these question without speculation, you might deserve to be taken seriously.

    You seem to mixing up the ‘born in Kenya’ claim with the ‘British father’ claim. President Obama has never denied his father’s citizenship. What’s your evidence that a British father would disqualify President Obama from being president?
    And why would employees of the Hawaii Dept. of Health participate in a criminal forgery scheme? Because the only way that birth certificate could be fake is through the direct complicity of the Hawaii Department of Health.

  21. avatar
    Retired Intelligence Officer May 21, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    Suranis: What the hell do OCON forms have to do with President Obama wining an extremely tough primary and then winning a landslide result in an election?Also, President Obama signed every form he was asked to certifying he was a natural born citizen. When the Oklahoma birther bill is signed Obama will comply with it. There is no there there.

    He cheated the guidelines and protocol to usurp the presidency. Pelosi had a hand in the OCON forms and Hawaii never certified Obama on its OCON form to be Constitutionally eligible like they did Gore and Kerry. The forms are available to see:

    Obama’s:
    http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll1/BecJul/Hawaii_DNC_CERT_2008_Obama.jpg
    http://home.comcast.net/~gwg1955/2008_DNC_Certification_Doc_2.jpg

    Gores:
    http://www.thepostemail.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/2000-Hawaii-Nom-Form-top-450×292.jpg

    Kerry’s:
    http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll1/BecJul/Hawaii_DNC_Cert_Kerry_2004.jpg

    Also comparisons. You might have to zoom in.
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4F7FHZurD40/TTemmNEcN8I/AAAAAAAAAFE/QShBTYY-z5k/s400/OCON.jpg

  22. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: More evidence uncovered confirming a forgery was made.

    Whatever.

  23. avatar
    James M May 21, 2011 at 8:24 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: The election was not fair. OCON forms were manipulated and omitted the Constitutional elgibility wording

    Form or no form, there is at least one perfectly legitimate form where it is clearly declared under oath that the President was eligible. Your quarrel is with them for swearing a false oath. Prove it, and prosecute them.

  24. avatar
    richCares May 21, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    besides lining Corsi’s pocket what does Birtherism accomplish, it can’t remove Obama, it can’t affect Obama in any way, all it can do is lline the pockets of Corsi and his ilk, nothing more, so why is RIO so interested in Corsi’s income? Those that dabble in Birtherism will never vote for Obama anyway. It must be frustrating to have no resonable goal.

  25. avatar
    Retired Intelligence Officer May 21, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    katahdin: And why would employees of the Hawaii Dept. of Health participate in a criminal forgery scheme?

    Because some the Hawaii Department Of Health officials are laced with corruption. It happens. Also they are taking orders from the president to help in the coverup.

    [OK. I’m not going to allow you to continue to participate in this forum any more. You just make up stuff, and denigrate decent civil servants without evidence. You bring out the worst in others. That is evil and I don’t want to promote evil. Doc.]

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: IOW, not only was the green copy specifically scanned into a manipulable form, but the white copy is from a print-out which also could have been manipulated. Everything Obama has offered is the result of specific steps taken to allow manipulation.

    Look, if you are going to make up stories, you have to account for all the facts. What you missed is that Obama offered the original to the press corps and at least one of them took a photo of it. In math, this is the Reductio ad absurdum.

  27. avatar
    Retired Intelligence Officer May 21, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    James M: Form or no form, there is at least one perfectly legitimate form where it is clearly declared under oath that the President was eligible. Your quarrel is with them for swearing a false oath. Prove it, and prosecute them.

    No, Hawaii law states the Constitutional Provisional wording must be included on the Hawaii OCON form. It was omitted and Obama wasn’t certified on the form by Brian Shatz as Constitutionally eligible.

  28. avatar
    Retired Intelligence Officer May 21, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Look, if you are going to make up stories, you have to account for all the facts. What you missed is that Obama offered the original to the press corps and at least one of them took a photo of it. In math, this is the Reductio ad absurdum.

    There was no proof it was the original. The reporter who took the picture was not a forensic document attestor. That was not a copy of a fifty year old document.

  29. avatar
    Majority Will May 21, 2011 at 8:46 pm #

    These baseless speculations and accusations of birthers completely devoid of credible evidence reads more like rambling paranoia motivated by extreme race based bigotry and politically motivated hostility.

  30. avatar
    Majority Will May 21, 2011 at 8:48 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: That was not a copy of a fifty year old document.

    *facepalm*

  31. avatar
    katahdin May 21, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: There was no proof it was the original. The reporter who took the picture was not a forensic document attestor. That was not a copy of a fifty year old document.

    There is an ironclad chain of custody between the State of Hawaii and the White House. No birthers have made any argument at all that disproves this. You all just keep attacking the electronic copy.

  32. avatar
    katahdin May 21, 2011 at 8:51 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: Because some the Hawaii Department Of Health officials are laced with corruption. It happens. Also they are taking orders from the president to help in the coverup.

    [OK. I’m not going to allow you to continue to participate in this forum any more. You just make up stuff, and denigrate decent civil servants without evidence. You bring out the worst in others. That is evil and I don’t want to promote evil. Doc.]

    Where is the evidence of any corruption? Accusing people of crimes without evidence is called libel

  33. avatar
    Stanislaw May 21, 2011 at 8:55 pm #

    Majority Will:
    These baseless speculations and accusations of birthers completely devoid of credible evidence reads more like rambling paranoia motivated by extreme race based bigotry and politically motivated hostility.

    Paranoia and bigotry is basically all that birtherism consists of.

  34. avatar
    richCares May 21, 2011 at 9:03 pm #

    I am from Hawaii, though I left in 1969, I visit family every year plus I vist my brothers grave in Punchbowl. I personally resent RIO’s insults and accusations to those hard working Hawaiian civll servants, many of whom I know, if he doesn’t apologize please ban him from this site. He never brings any evidence for his views but accuses people he does not know of fraud. That’s over the top.

  35. avatar
    Majority Will May 21, 2011 at 9:06 pm #

    Stanislaw: Paranoia and bigotry is basically all that birtherism consists of.

    What a sad, strange and lonely existence that must be.

  36. avatar
    Suranis May 21, 2011 at 9:23 pm #

    And in “Who cares” news, WTBC is now at no 23. More than enough to make Corsi money, sadly.

  37. avatar
    Majority Will May 21, 2011 at 9:30 pm #

    Suranis:
    And in “Who cares” news, WTBC is now at no 23. More than enough to make Corsi money, sadly.

    It’ll drop like a stone when his sugar daddy Joe maxes out his Visa.

  38. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 21, 2011 at 9:52 pm #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: Because some the Hawaii Department Of Health officials are laced with corruption. It happens. Also they are taking orders from the president to help in the coverup.

    it would have to be a 50-year “coverup”, given the fact that the Hawaii DOH transmitted Obama’s birth announcement to 2 local papers of record in August of 1961. Whose “orders” were they following then? JFK’s?

  39. avatar
    Obsolete May 21, 2011 at 10:04 pm #

    I also think RIO crossed the line accusing Hawaiian officials of criminal acts with no evidence whatsoever. He should apologize, or present evidence the authorities can act on, or be banned.

  40. avatar
    Obsolete May 21, 2011 at 10:11 pm #

    RIO has reached the point that nothing will ever convince him he is wrong.
    Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate has a greater likelihood of authenticity of almost any similar document on Earth. Hawaii’s chain of possession and letters certifying authenticity are ironclad. The only way birthers can try to impeach them are to simply claim that everyone is lying and “in on it”.
    That is all they have left.

    They are now bigger nutcases than both may21 end-of-the-world people and 9/11 truthers. They are dead-enders.

  41. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 21, 2011 at 10:33 pm #

    Obsolete: He should apologize, or present evidence the authorities can act on, or be banned.

    I already banned him.

  42. avatar
    Thrifty May 21, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    I have a copy of my state of Delaware birth certificate right next to me. It contains a raised seal, my name, birthday, gender, state filing number, mother’s maiden name, father’s name, date of filing (10 days after my birth), and date this particular copy was issued. It also has a raised seal, the signature stamp of the state registrar, and a note saying that it is a true and correct reproduction or abstract of the official record filed with the Delaware Division of Health.

    For President Obama, I have all that, a more detailed birth certificate, and statements by several witnesses remembering his birth in Hawaii.

    Conclusion: I am more sure that President Obama was born in the United States than that I was.

  43. avatar
    bjphysics May 22, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: Because some the Hawaii Department Of Health officials are laced with corruption. It happens. Also they are taking orders from the president to help in the coverup.

    You may have been banned for defamation and libel but you can still view this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b1a-hqvGNI

  44. avatar
    The Magic M May 22, 2011 at 12:06 pm #

    > He cheated the guidelines and protocol to usurp the presidency.

    What a pile of poo!

    He was born in Hawaii (as proven by both the COLB, the LFBC and Hawaii’s confirmations thereof) and by actual legal standards is a natural born citizen.

    “Cheating the guidelines and protocol” would not have sufficed; it would require world+dog to be part of that huuuge conspiracy that you will not convince any sane people of.

    Actually, that was how the birfer meme started – with the idea that Obama simply cheated a little to sneak into office. However the more facts surfaced that make this impossible (like his Hawaiian birth, the real definition of NBC and the fact that absolutely no-one who, according to birthers, “would know better” had anything to complain about), the more people and institutions the birfer theory required to be “part of that huuuge conspiracy.” And that’s where the descent down the rabbit hole began.

    The whole Trump thingy only worked because it was perfectly normal that the big majority did not know the details of Obama’s birth (just like no significant part of the population knows where Trump, Bush or Clinton were born).

    However good luck getting the “the entire world is lying to you” across to people with a brain.

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 22, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    bjphysics: You may have been banned for defamation and libel but you can still view this

    Retired Intelligence Operator tried so sneak in as “Political Operative” with a new email address, but was stopped at the door, arrested, and sent to a FEMA camp for re-education.

  46. avatar
    GeorgetownJD May 22, 2011 at 2:57 pm #

    Well, well, well. RIO is crying to his buddies over at birtherrepot.com.

    “Retired Intelligence Officer said…[Reply]

    On a side note, I went over to a site called Doctor Conspiracy and gave em hell by posting pictures of the the DNC and Hawaiian OCON form missing the Constitutional provisional wording for Obama and accused Hawaiian Dept of Health officials of covering for Obama and he banned me.

    He said this first:

    Look, if you are going to make up stories, you have to account for all the facts. What you missed is that Obama offered the original to the press corps and at least one of them took a photo of it. In math, this is the Reductio ad absurdum.

    And then this:
    [OK. I’m not going to allow you to continue to participate in this forum any more. You just make up stuff, and denigrate decent civil servants without evidence. You bring out the worst in others. That is evil and I don’t want to promote evil. Doc.]

    Read the thread and I encourage any of you to post there and challenge them.

    Thread:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/05/wtbc-the-impact/#comments

  47. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 22, 2011 at 6:27 pm #

    GeorgetownJD:
    On a side note, I went over to a site called Doctor Conspiracy and gave em hell by posting pictures of the the DNC and Hawaiian OCON form missing the Constitutional provisional wording for Obama and accused Hawaiian Dept of Health officials of covering for Obama and he banned me.

    I let him post 116 comments before I banned him after he was caught in more lies than I care to count.

  48. avatar
    Suranis May 22, 2011 at 7:16 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I let him post 116 comments before I banned him after he was caught in more lies than I care to count

    At a guess, 116 lies.

  49. avatar
    Scientist May 22, 2011 at 7:49 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I let him post 116 comments before I banned him after he was caught in more lies than I care to count.

    His very screen name was a lie.

  50. avatar
    Expelliarmus May 22, 2011 at 8:04 pm #

    I’d point out that it was very obvious that he was here as a shill for Corsi’s book — the timing of his appearance, coupled with his repeated touting of Corsi talking points, and then repeated posts encouraging purchase of the book made that obvious.

    I would suggest that you consider a “no spam” policy. Both the repetition of the same points over and over and the repeated linking to and/or encouraging purchase of a specific item would fit that definition. Just because askismet doesn’t catch it does’t make it o.k.

  51. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett May 22, 2011 at 8:14 pm #

    Suranis:
    And in “Who cares” news, WTBC is now at no 23. More than enough to make Corsi money, sadly.

    He was probably sensible enough to ask for a flat contract payment up front, just in case.

  52. avatar
    bjphysics May 22, 2011 at 8:31 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Retired Intelligence Operator tried so sneak in as “Political Operative” with a new email address, but was stopped at the door, arrested, and sent to a FEMA camp for re-education.

    I’ll probably lose my clearance for telling you this. The FEMA camps are a cover story told to the public to relieve their guilt and keep the real secret. He was sent to one of many Consoyvalent Green processing plant; remember Thursday is Consoyvalent Green day.

  53. avatar
    Majority Will May 22, 2011 at 9:33 pm #

    GeorgetownJD:
    Well, well, well.RIO is crying to his buddies over at birtherrepot.com.

    “Retired Intelligence Officer said…[Reply]

    On a side note, I went over to a site called Doctor Conspiracy and gave em hell by posting pictures of the the DNC and Hawaiian OCON form missing the Constitutional provisional wording for Obama and accused Hawaiian Dept of Health officials of covering for Obama and he banned me.

    He said this first:

    Look, if you are going to make up stories, you have to account for all the facts. What you missed is that Obama offered the original to the press corps and at least one of them took a photo of it. In math, this is the Reductio ad absurdum.

    And then this: [OK. I’m not going to allow you to continue to participate in this forum any more. You just make up stuff, and denigrate decent civil servants without evidence. You bring out the worst in others. That is evil and I don’t want to promote evil. Doc.]

    Read the thread and I encourage any of you to post there and challenge them.

    Thread:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/05/wtbc-the-impact/#comments

    Speaking of posting, the cowardly birther nut running that cesspool says:

    “I am forced to moderate the comments at this site due to the Obama defenders constant porn spam and threatening comments.”

    Yeah, right. What a steaming load of b.s.

    More like these cockroaches run from the light. These unAmerican scum fear the truth.

  54. avatar
    ellid May 23, 2011 at 7:40 am #

    Retired Intelligence Officer: The election was not fair. OCON forms were manipulated and omitted the Constitutional elgibility wording allowing a Usurper with born allegiance to the British Crown was allowed to be on the ballot. That was not the founders intent when they formed Article 2 Section 1, especially when we just finished a war with the Brits for our independence. Obama has created a forgery at a desperate attempt to remain in power and undermine the Constitution.

    That is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read. The election wasn’t fair? How? Because someone you didn’t like won?

  55. avatar
    The Magic M May 23, 2011 at 8:26 am #

    > OCON forms were manipulated and omitted the Constitutional elgibility wording allowing a Usurper with born allegiance to the British Crown was allowed to be on the ballot.

    And then no-one complained during the election race, inauguration etc., making again the entire world complicit in teh ebil huuuge konspeeracee. Yeah right, that’s gonna go over well, just like the lizard people or the hollow world theory which are known to have moved tens of millions to march towards Washington…

    In case you didn’t notice, RIO, the “Obama alone or a handful of people managed to deceive everyone” meme is soooo 2008. With all the evidence to the contrary, you need at least 300 million of the 305 million Americans as part of the cover-up.

  56. avatar
    Scientist May 23, 2011 at 9:17 am #

    No doubt, there are many worthy competitors, but I would like to nominate “OCON forms” as the stupidest birther meme of all.

    As I understand it, 2 forms were filed, one of which said “Constitutionally eligible” and one of which said “eligible”. But, to the best of my knowledge, the rules for presidential eligibility come from one place and one place only, namely the US Constitution. I mean, it’s not like there are statements about presidential eligibility in the Bible, or the Rules of Baseball or Newton’s Laws of Motion that might confuse the issue. Nope, presidential eligibillity only appears in the Constiitution. So, the statements, “eligible for the presidency” and “Constitutionally eligible for the presidency” are in fact one and tthe same.

  57. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2011 at 9:38 am #

    Scientist: No doubt, there are many worthy competitors, but I would like to nominate “OCON forms” as the stupidest birther meme of all.

    While in no way minimizing the stupidity of this issue, I would argue that there are dozens of more worthy candidates for the “stupidest meme” category. One that jumps to mind is:

    Michelle Obama Disbarred?

  58. avatar
    Scientist May 23, 2011 at 9:47 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: While in no way minimizing the stupidity of this issue, I would argue that there are dozens of more worthy candidates for the “stupidest meme” category. One that jumps to mind is:
    Michelle Obama Disbarred?

    How about a contest (once the haiku one is over)?

  59. avatar
    Thrifty May 23, 2011 at 10:46 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: While in no way minimizing the stupidity of this issue, I would argue that there are dozens of more worthy candidates for the “stupidest meme” category. One that jumps to mind is:Michelle Obama Disbarred?

    Holy cow. I thought we had a lot of birther cranks nowadays. It appears you had a much more severe pest control problem 2 years ago.

  60. avatar
    The Magic M May 23, 2011 at 11:23 am #

    > While in no way minimizing the stupidity of this issue, I would argue that there are dozens of more worth candidates for the “stupidest meme” category.

    That’s because the “magic words” memes are so beyond stupid they deserve their own category.

    How about the “Annual Conspiracy Awards for Birther Memes”? Categories will include “Most Easily Debunked”, “Worst Misunderstanding of the Law”, “Magic Word Games” and “Most Often Failed in Court”.

  61. avatar
    TyrannyNews June 3, 2011 at 7:39 am #

    Thrifty:
    “…I am more sure that President Obama was born in the United States than that I was.”

    I presume that your conclusion is not one of conviction. If so, you may understand why I disregard your post.

    katahdin:
    “…There is an ironclad chain of custody between the State of Hawaii and the White House.”

    Putting any notions or political leanings aside, I don’t think your statement is correct. My apologies if I seem confrontational. I’ve come across some

    hearsay evidence that relates to the issue of “chain of custody” and goes as follows.

    Un-named/unknown person A has access to the facility where Hawaii is supposed to have stored the doc in question. Earlier trip to locate doc yields

    nothing. Person A leaves and notes the extreme rarity of doc’s absence.

    Even less known person(s) tip off person A that the doc is now going to be publicized. Person A returns and finds doc now exists. Person A notes

    many oddities upon visual inspection and decides to leave matters alone.

    From my experience, these claims are easily verifiable and warrant further investigation.

    Majority Will:
    “…birthers…rambling paranoia…extreme race based bigotry…politically motivated hostility.”

    I have few heroes, but they are all living and recognized through the commemorative 8×10 prints I’ve made and framed for each. And no, none are

    sports figures. This is true. I won’t defend someone unless I’ve been convinced that they are in the right. Less likely to attack others on their behalf.

    My opinion of your scathing comment is that it lacks honesty and credibility. I’m sorry to have to say this. Is it possible that you’re no longer

    defending Obama and defending yourself, projected through him? I’m seeing this everywhere. Obama is an enduring archetype that serves a wide

    variety of cultures, and driven by media storytelling.

    Just consider that you know far, far less than any of us will call you to task for. Why be so critical of people you call “birthers” when the phrase

    “conspiracy theorist” itself was popularized in the early 20th century as a slight to political enemies?! I think Edward Bernays himself was involved in

    that public relations work. It wasn’t a valid arguement. Just another name to sling.

    Expelliarmus:
    “…he was here as a shill for Corsi’s book — the timing of his appearance…touting of Corsi talking points…consider a “no spam” policy.”

    Although possible, do you really think that person was profiting from the promotion of Jerome Corsi’s book? You refer to the timing of his

    appearance, although it stands to reason that the book would be up for discussion once announced and published. You also imply that it’s negative

    to tout an author’s talking points.

    I’m sure that I’m being mostly critical here, but I want to help this place achieve honest discussion and debate. That won’t be possible, even amongst

    the denouncers of Obama crime theories if our tolerance for the behavior of others leads us to call for banning them. I suggest checking yourself for

    bias, because your arguments were fueled by them in this instance.

    richCares:
    “…I personally resent RIO’s insults and accusations to those hard working Hawaiian civil servants, many of whom I know, if he doesn’t apologize please ban him…”

    Your use of the phrase “civil servant” is misplaced, IMO. RIO was criticizing government bureaucrats who by complicity participate in a brutal gang

    monopoly, enjoy freedom from competition and often continue to enjoy the spoils of the extortion by way of their pension.

    I think RIO was simply making the assumption that corruption and compartmentalization could occur in Hawaiian government, as it does everywhere

    else. The purpose being to connect the dots, although flimsily.

    And, if you once knew Jim Jones should that change my opinion of him? Honestly, it could. Still, I’m not sure how much credit should be given to

    these civil servants based solely on your recommendation.

    Daniel:
    “…Why not put your money where your considerable mouth is?…Scared you just might be proven wrong? Coward.”

    Being an independent researcher and journalist, I’m often referred to as a “conspiracy theorist.” Rarely do I reply to that label by labeling them “propagandist.” Some here would be offended if I referred to them as “statist”, even though they are. So, I’m able to answer your question for RIO with a question of my own.

    Which is worse in your estimation; being proven wrong about a theory OR being accused of being wrong about everything you suspect is true? This is the world of the “birther”, the “truther”, the Voluntaryist, the skeptical.

    Obsolete:
    “…The only people trying to violate the Constitution are you and other birthers trying to overturn a free and fair election.”

    In the few short years since I was violently awakened to the horrible tyranny of the ruling class and became ravenously addicted to historical events that bear that out, to my horror I’ve learned something about myself and others who think like me. I did not chose to be kind, or street-smart, or friendly, or generous, or compassionate or honest with myself. I gravitated to these things.

    Unknown to most, “birthers” are quiet people from all walks of life that don’t dare speak out on the possible crimes that are the issue. They live to enjoy what isn’t tainted by the despair of suspecting these nasty truths. They don’t really care about Obama being the President. I, personally hope to one day see the office retired. In all honesty, some and maybe most just want to help other people. That’s what motivates me.

    You shouldn’t go assuming that I’m a dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy guy, who buys into these theories as a habit. Actually, I have ruled out much more than I’ve adopted. In fact, on the topic of Obama I’m not even able to decide whether he’s a conspirator or the victim of blackmail. Much evidence exists that a very well-established system of blackmailing our leaders has been in place and nearly perfected. So, I don’t know.

    In short, I won’t point you to crimes that violate the Constitution. But, in honor of all the hard work that went into it I can’t promise you we won’t learn some awful truth very soon that might cause me to condemn the usurpation of it. And, I don’t care who the hell is lying or if they’re punished. Just so we know what’s going on and whether we should respect our leaders or not.

  62. avatar
    Sef June 3, 2011 at 7:49 am #

    I just tried to follow Susan Herbert’s ramblings and have come to the conclusion that “TyrannyNews” is a sock puppet for Susan.

  63. avatar
    Majority Will June 3, 2011 at 7:57 am #

    TyrannyNews: My opinion of your scathing comment is that it lacks honesty and credibility. I’m sorry to have to say this.

    And you think you have credibility why?

    lmfao

    I’m not sorry at all and your was really funny and pathetic. Thanks for the chuckle.

    You have no credible evidence of malfeasance whatsoever but you accuse strangers of projection?

    It’s been said here many times . . .

    If you don’t want to be ridiculed, don’t be ridiculous.

    “I can’t promise you we won’t learn some awful truth very soon that might cause me to condemn the usurpation of it.”

    That’s right, muppet. Any day now. (lmao again)

  64. avatar
    Majority Will June 3, 2011 at 7:58 am #

    I’m not sorry at all and your was really funny and pathetic. Thanks for the chuckle.

    s/b I’m not sorry at all and your post was really funny and pathetic. Thanks for the chuckle.

  65. avatar
    Majority Will June 3, 2011 at 7:59 am #

    Sef:
    I just tried to follow Susan Herbert’s ramblings and have come to the conclusion that “TyrannyNews” is a sock puppet for Susan.

    Good call.

  66. avatar
    Scientist June 3, 2011 at 8:14 am #

    TyrannyNews: They don’t really care about Obama being the President. I, personally hope to one day see the office retired.

    I’ve come to believe that this is a secret agenda of many birthers; to erect so many roadblocks that no one can ever be President, resulting in a parliamentary system by default. Not that there is anything wrong with parliamentary systems. In fact, it’s hard to argue that countries that have one, like Britain or Canada, are worse governed than the US, and a credible case could be made that they are better governed. At least they manage to run election campaigns over 5 or 6 weeks rather than the interminable ones here. Parliamentary systems also have the advantage of clear accountablility. A Prime Minister can’t blame his failings on the other branch of the legislature as Presidents and Congress do.

    I just wish birthers would be honest and lay out the case against the Presidency openlly and let people deccide on the basis of facts and sound arguments.

  67. avatar
    Bovril June 3, 2011 at 9:03 am #

    Majority Will: That’s right, muppet. Any day now. (lmao again)

    Oy, Majority, that’s my phrase….. 😎

  68. avatar
    Majority Will June 3, 2011 at 9:22 am #

    TyrannyNews:

    I’m sure that I’m being mostly critical here, but I want to help this place achieve honest discussion and debate.

    Allow me to clarify and stress the following point. Considering you’re wrong and clueless on Executive Order 13489 and readily and eagerly jumped (and jump) to baseless speculations, fear mongering and inciting delusions, any credibility you might have earned is pretty much non-existent at this point:

    From your site – Posted by PeterK on Dec 26, 2010 –

    “To the “Birther”, who already questions Obama’s eligibility for office and for at least some who think the majority of his official history is a fable this won’t be surprising. My hope is that publishing this and calling attention to it will cause more American’s to consider the possibility of fraud. I believe that, this act clearly points to a strong interest by some in the current administration to conceal something within Obama’s past. Could it be related to his eduction? Might he have fudged on a student loan application? Or, might these documents he has sought to conceal reveal something much darker?”

    http://www.tyrannynews.com/2010/12/obamas-first-presidential-act/

    Here’s a more rational explanation:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/08/more-faux-record-hiding/

    And another:

    http://historycoalition.org/2009/01/21/president-obama-revokes-bush-presidential-records-executive-order/

    Excerpt:

    “President Obama firmly committed his administration to a new policy of transparency by symbolically issuing the executive order on his first full day in office. The issuance of the Obama presidential records executive order ends a nearly eight year effort by historians, archivists, political scientists and other stakeholders in federal courts and on Capitol Hill to have the Bush EO revoked on legal grounds or by statute.
    The language in the Obama executive order is similar to Executive Order 12667 issued by President Reagan in 1989 which was also in effect during the presidencies of George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton. The Reagan executive order was revoked when President Bush issued EO 13233 in November 2001.
    The Obama executive order restores the presumption that the incumbent president, not former presidents, their heirs or designees should be the one asserting claims of executive privilege. The executive order states that only “living” former Presidents can make claims of executive privilege. This removed one of the most egregious sections of the Bush EO that allowed heirs or designees to make claims of executive privilege for an indefinite period after the death of a former President.” (source: © 2007, National Coalition for History, 400 A Street SE, Washington, DC 20003)

  69. avatar
    Majority Will June 3, 2011 at 9:24 am #

    Bovril: Oy, Majority, that’s my phrase…..

    Yeah it is! Consider it appreciation? πŸ˜€

  70. avatar
    Daniel June 3, 2011 at 11:59 am #

    TyrannyNews: Daniel:
    “…Why not put your money where your considerable mouth is?…Scared you just might be proven wrong? Coward.”

    Being an independent researcher and journalist, I’m often referred to as a “conspiracy theorist.” Rarely do I reply to that label by labeling them “propagandist.” Some here would be offended if I referred to them as “statist”, even though they are. So, I’m able to answer your question for RIO with a question of my own.

    Which is worse in your estimation; being proven wrong about a theory OR being accused of being wrong about everything you suspect is true? This is the world of the “birther”, the “truther”, the Voluntaryist, the skeptical.

    You dance divinely.

    You’re internal angst at being shown how wrong you are is of YOUR doing, and not the fault of those who don’t buy into your nutbag conspiracy.

    You are not a skeptic. A skeptic is one who questions a premise UNTIL the premise is proven. Every skeptic has a level of proof required which WILL serve to change their mind if it is met. Once the premise is proven, the skeptic stops questioning it. Skeptics no longer question what 2+2 equals, what the shape of the earth is, whether the ocean has a bottom or not.

    Conspiracy nutbags continue to question IN SPITE OF the premise being proven. There is NO level of proof that will satisfy a skeptic. That is precisely what you are doing, and precisely why you are a conspiracy nutbag, and not a “skeptic”. The earth IS round, whether you like it or not.

    So again, it’s not our problem that you are all sad and heartbroken at the amount of derision you suffer for having adopted a nutbag conspiracy.

    If you don’t want to be ridiculed, don’t be ridiculous.

  71. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 3, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    TyrannyNews: Un-named/unknown person A has access to the facility where Hawaii is supposed to have stored the doc in question. Earlier trip to locate doc yields

    nothing. Person A leaves and notes the extreme rarity of doc’s absence.

    Even less known person(s) tip off person A that the doc is now going to be publicized. Person A returns and finds doc now exists. Person A notes

    many oddities upon visual inspection and decides to leave matters alone.

    From my experience, these claims are easily verifiable and warrant further investigation.

    And how, pray tell, do you “easily” verify a hearsay claim about an anonymous third party? I personally find it easy to verify the claim is false because every named person who claims to have looked found the record, and we further know that the same record was in the State’s computer system in 2007 when the COLB was issued.

  72. avatar
    Daniel June 3, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: And how, pray tell, do you “easily” verify a hearsay claim about an anonymous third party?

    Strangely enough, every Grimm’s Fairy Tale was a hearsay claim about an anonymous third party.

    Proof that the brother’s Grimm were “in on it”

  73. avatar
    James M June 3, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    TyrannyNews:

    From my experience, these claims are easily verifiable and warrant further investigation.

    Do you have evidence that Hawaii archives were accessed by unauthorized persons or tampered with, or do you not?

    If you do have such evidence, please provide it with a sworn deposition in which you detail the provenance of this evidence.

  74. avatar
    Daniel June 3, 2011 at 2:30 pm #

    TyrannyNews: Un-named/unknown person A has access to the facility where Hawaii is supposed to have stored the doc in question. Earlier trip to locate doc yields

    nothing. Person A leaves and notes the extreme rarity of doc’s absence.

    Even less known person(s) tip off person A that the doc is now going to be publicized. Person A returns and finds doc now exists. Person A notes

    many oddities upon visual inspection and decides to leave matters alone.

    From my experience, these claims are easily verifiable and warrant further investigation.

    Shoulda/woulda/coulda does not warrant any consideration at all. neither legally, nor morally.

    For instance, it is entirely possible that you are a mass murdere, and have buried hundreds of bodies in your local park. By your own stated critieria, that suspicion is enough to warrant a complete investigation. Please begin by providing us with all your personal details and an account of every minute of your life from the age of 16 until now.

    If you have not yet attained the age of 16, then the last five years will be sufficient.

    After all these claims are easily verifiable, and warrant further investigation… right?

  75. avatar
    Majority Will June 3, 2011 at 2:56 pm #

    Daniel: Shoulda/woulda/coulda does not warrant any consideration at all. neither legally, nor morally.

    But that summarizes TN’s entire FUD drenched web cesspool. Now what?

    Some people are only interested in fear mongering over all else.

  76. avatar
    bjphysics June 3, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    TyrannyNews: Putting any notions or political leanings aside, I don’t think your statement is correct. My apologies if I seem confrontational. I’ve come across some

    hearsay evidence that relates to the issue of “chain of custody” and goes as follows.

    Un-named/unknown person A has access to the facility where Hawaii is supposed to have stored the doc in question. Earlier trip to locate doc yields

    1) What’s with all the funky line spacing? Looks like you got the hang of it by the last part.

    2) Is stopping “tyranny” a non-profit or for profit activity? Your site has that “milk this for profit” ala Alex Jones look to it.

    3) What is this about the TyrannyNews editor:

    “Editor – Peter Klein

    [snip]

    He is an entrepreneur, a free thinker and assures readers that he has taken tests that lead him to confidently assert he is not a psychopath.”

    What tests did Peter take and why did he need to take them?

  77. avatar
    Thrifty June 3, 2011 at 3:27 pm #

    I think I tuned out TyrannyNews after the 3rd sentence. A whole lot of words that don’t say anything to give the illusion of a well reasoned argument.

  78. avatar
    Expelliarmus June 3, 2011 at 3:42 pm #

    TyrannyNews: Un-named/unknown person A has access to the facility where Hawaii is supposed to have stored the doc in question. Earlier trip to locate doc yields

    nothing. Person A leaves and notes the extreme rarity of doc’s absence.

    Even less known person(s) tip off person A that the doc is now going to be publicized. Person A returns and finds doc now exists.

    It is a matter of record, reported by the former, Republican-appointed health director to CNN, that Obama’s original birth certificate (and presumably the entire volume in which was contained), was placed in a locked safe fairly early on, for safekeeping.

    While I am quite skeptical of Corsi’s claims to have any inside connection, it is plausible that he established contact with some lower level clerical employee who was able to gain access to the area where the volumes of birth records from the 1960’s are shelved or stored, found the records from August 1961 to be “missing” and reported that back to Corsi.

  79. avatar
    AnotherBird June 3, 2011 at 9:14 pm #

    TyrannyNews: Un-named/unknown person A has access to the facility where Hawaii is supposed to have stored the doc in question.

    It was the invisible man. Birthers are more interested in picking up a grain of sand and claiming that it is an island. The reason why this person is “un-named/unknown,” is that they don’t exist.

    A known person with access to all birth records in Hawaii, has explicitly claimed that the birth certificate exists, and that they inspected it.

  80. avatar
    TyrannyNews June 4, 2011 at 8:15 am #

    Since my comment is the topic of the last 8 or 10 replies, I’ll just address this reply to the group.

    Dr. Conspiracy — Good information. It may be that the doc was there in 2007. I don’t have reason to suspect Obama was Kenyan born, BTW. And, I agree named persons making statements is compelling.

    In all of this BC noise, only the long form seems to be an obvious deal-breaker for me. I’m open to everything else.

    And, I was referring to my experience when saying this could easily be checked out. Seriously, tracing this to the source is easy compared to some crazy crap I’ve attempted to source. It’s a redacted world, but Corsi seems confidant that these people will go on record.

    Majority Will — Kudos for taking the time to dig into my writing. I can appreciate your comments knowing they weren’t knee-jerk, like so many others. Mostly valid points. Still, what in the hell was he doing signing an executive order on inauguration eve?!

    One criticism; “clueless” is still pretty much name-calling. That’s what I don’t relate to, but get where you’re coming from.

    Scientist — Wow! No kidding, your statement about how I’ve approached this is very accurate. I am a Voluntaryist, the main tenant being the belief that governments are the wrong way to self-govern a society. Very, very interesting since it lacks any attack on me personally and concedes that I may not have a seedy and self-serving agenda cloaked in this birthism. Thanks.

    Sef — I don’t know a Susan Herbert. Are you referring to Stacy Herbert of Max Keiser fame? If so, I don’t dig where she stands on AGW. I’m probably missing something. But, if you can believe anything I say I am not very social and very rarely emerge to discuss issues. I’m just interested in recent history. I did live in a basement for a time though. Fully finished and 2,300 sq ft though, with good lighting. I admit it was difficult when hearing basement dwellers were losers.

    Majority Will — You’ve called me pathetic, ridiculous, a muppet. Can we not agree that when personal attacks or major exaggerations of my qualities are used the honesty and credibility of the total suffers? Maybe it’s just a relaxed style, but I can’t see past it.

    Can’t you read in my comments that I have no underlying bias or racism or distrust on these issues? Why is it so crazy to doubt politicians and official accounts these days? I don’t know how you want me to present my side. However, there’s just no way I’m going to check myself at the reading of an insult. I’ve been insulted before. Do I appear weak to you because I’m open to suggestion and don’t swagger all that much?

    Daniel — I’m a nutbag? OK, fine. At this point, I don’t even remember what my reply to your comment was about. What’s at issue here, IMO is you’re assuming that I want to “win” this conversation. Although, I could be wrong. Your comments just read that way.

    Did you win? Check the tape. I think I did step out of bounds when I didn’t clarify that I didn’t want to be a part of this game. Can someone please tell me what I’m missing about this whole Obama Conspiracy that has reduced me to the status of a muppet? Oh, sorry — nutbag! Come on, really! I get by, but truthfully opposing the pres doesn’t help to get one laid.

    bjphysics — My blog hasn’t even been officially announced yet. No, it’s ad free and I don’t earn anything or have many eyeballs currently. Which is sad, since I’ve been a web developer and search opt. guy. People who know me, know that I obsess about few things. For a few years now, it’s been an awakening to tyranny. On my word, I am actually trying to raise awareness of tyranny. Corny, but I can’t see my guitar work being as affirming.

    I was poking fun with my statement about psychopathy testing. I did self-test using a test my friend “The Pragmatist” is pursuing for use to screen bureaucrats for ponarolic psychopathy. Although I test clean, I’d be dead before making decisions for other people. But you’re right to be skeptical of me! Then, less chance of being duped. You’re not theorizing that I’m conspiring are you? Kidding.

  81. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 4, 2011 at 8:35 am #

    TyrannyNews: It’s a redacted world, but Corsi seems confidant that these people will go on record.

    You should always keep in mind the possibility that Corsi is lying (or that his sources are lying). A rational way to proceed is to set a date, after which failure to produce the goods (no matter what the “excuse” ) will lead you to the conclusion that he’s a fraud. Otherwise, you might be led into the birther trap of believing ANYTHING so long as the proof is coming “any day now.”

    Psychologically, the “any day now” approach requires the believer to “invest” in the belief over time and the more emotional investment is made, the harder it is to shake. It’s like a advance fee fraud when the sucker suspects that they’ve been conned, but keeps putting in more money because they’ve lost so much already.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance-fee_fraud

  82. avatar
    Sef June 4, 2011 at 8:39 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Psychologically, the “any day now” approach requires the believer to “invest” in the belief over time and the more investment is made, the harder it is to shake. It’s like a advance fee fraud when the sucker suspects that they’ve been conned, but keeps putting in more money because they’ve lost so much already.

    It would help if more people understood the engineering economy concept of “sunk cost”.

  83. avatar
    Daniel June 4, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    TyrannyNews: What’s at issue here, IMO is you’re assuming that I want to “win” this conversation. Although, I could be wrong.

    What I noticed is that you didn’t bother to deny that you’re a mass murderer.

    I also notice that you have yet to provide us with all your personal details and an account of every minute of your life from the age of 16 until now.

    What are you hiding?

    After all these claims are easily verifiable, and warrant further investigation… right?

  84. avatar
    dunstvangeet June 4, 2011 at 2:59 pm #

    TyrannyNews: Putting any notions or political leanings aside, I don’t think your statement is correct. My apologies if I seem confrontational. I’ve come across some hearsay evidence that relates to the issue of “chain of custody” and goes as follows.

    Un-named/unknown person A has access to the facility where Hawaii is supposed to have stored the doc in question. Earlier trip to locate doc yields nothing. Person A leaves and notes the extreme rarity of doc’s absence.
    First off, who is this person? You’ve already said that they’re unnamed. How are we suppose to investigate this claim, if the person isn’t even willing to put their name behind this? On the other side, we have named officials who have directly looked at it, and said that it’s there. One of them is Dr. Cherome Fukino, the former Director of Health. In my book, a named official goes beyond an unnamed person. Especially when that named official has said that during the midst of an administration that would have absolutely no reason to lie.

    Even less known person(s) tip off person A that the doc is now going to be publicized. Person A returns and finds doc now exists. Person A notes many oddities upon visual inspection and decides to leave matters alone.

    Or it could be that the person is making it up. There are currently only a couple of people that have access to the archives on the Hawaii Department of Health. Normally, there is absolutely no reason to go down there, considering that all the birth records are now stored in a computer database, which saves both time and money. So, why would Person A go down there in the first place? Why further, would they disclose this information, when it goes directly against their job to do this, and is a prosecutable offense? Remember, a couple of people have gotten prosecuted over the unauthorized access of Obama’s records.

    What you’re basically saying is that the direct word of 2 directors of the Hawaii Department of Health has equal weight to some rumor that no official is even putting their name behind. Add that to the certification made by Alvin T. Onaka (the State Registrar), and you’ve got nothing. You’ve admitted that this evidence is hearsay. Hearsay is not admissible evidence in any court of law. The word of the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health is.

    From my experience, these claims are easily verifiable and warrant further investigation.

    Actually, they don’t warrant further investigation, especially when two different Directors of the Hawaii Department of Health have verified that it is there. Read the statements.

    Why be so critical of people you call “birthers” when the phrase “conspiracy theorist” itself was popularized in the early 20th century as a slight to political enemies?! I think Edward Bernays himself was involved in that public relations work. It wasn’t a valid arguement. Just another name to sling.

    Actually, the reason they’re called conspiracy theorists is that they believe that there must be a vast conspiracy make their theory work. For instance, on your “hearsay” evidence, the Hawaii Department of Health must be in a conspiracy with Obama in order to plant a false Record of Birth in there so that the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health can release it.

    Although possible, do you really think that person was profiting from the promotion of Jerome Corsi’s book? You refer to the timing of his appearance, although it stands to reason that the book would be up for discussion once announced and published. You also imply that it’s negative to tout an author’s talking points.

    Which person? You’re presuming that this person actually exists, and that Jerome Corsi didn’t just make this person up. There’s been evidence of Birthers making people up out of whole cloth, in order to support their personal theory. Take a look at Tim Adams. He claims that unnamed people at the Honolulu Elections Office told him that Obama didn’t have a birth certificate. When pressed, he couldn’t name a single person by name, and just said it was a well known rumor. When his boss was interviewed, he directly said that the Honolulu Elections Office where Adams worked did not have access to the birth records, and that there was no such rumor going around the office. Take a look at Ron McKae. He supposedly got an affidavit from someone in the room with Sarah Obama when she said that Obama was born in Kenya. The only thing about it is that the person admitted to using a fake name. And the person seemed to use almost the exact same language in the affidavit as Ron McKae did. There are dozens of examples where birthers, with no further backing, basically try to go to anoymous sources to support their point, when all the named sources, who are actually willing to set their name and their reputation behind what they are saying actually say the exact opposite thing.

    I’m sure that I’m being mostly critical here, but I want to help this place achieve honest discussion and debate. That won’t be possible, even amongst the denouncers of Obama crime theories if our tolerance for the behavior of others leads us to call for banning them. I suggest checking yourself for bias, because your arguments were fueled by them in this instance.

    Your use of the phrase “civil servant” is misplaced, IMO. RIO was criticizing government bureaucrats who by complicity participate in a brutal gang monopoly, enjoy freedom from competition and often continue to enjoy the spoils of the extortion by way of their pension.

    They’re not immune from Freedom of Competition. They also on total compensation are actually paid less than their counterparts in the private sector (study on Wisconsin State employees actually said that they were paid about 6% less than private-sector employees in comparable jobs).

    I think RIO was simply making the assumption that corruption and compartmentalization could occur in Hawaiian government, as it does everywhere else. The purpose being to connect the dots, although flimsily.

    And yet, you wonder why we call them conspiracy theorists. RIO is a prime example. In order to make his theory work, you have to believe that a conspiracy between Obama and the Government of Hawaii was done to make someone who wasn’t eligible for being President eligible for the Presidency.

    Being an independent researcher and journalist, I’m often referred to as a “conspiracy theorist.” Rarely do I reply to that label by labeling them “propagandist.” Some here would be offended if I referred to them as “statist”, even though they are. So, I’m able to answer your question for RIO with a question of my own.

    Which is worse in your estimation; being proven wrong about a theory OR being accused of being wrong about everything you suspect is true? This is the world of the “birther”, the “truther”, the Voluntaryist, the skeptical.

    In the few short years since I was violently awakened to the horrible tyranny of the ruling class and became ravenously addicted to historical events that bear that out, to my horror I’ve learned something about myself and others who think like me. I did not chose to be kind, or street-smart, or friendly, or generous, or compassionate or honest with myself. I gravitated to these things.

    Unknown to most, “birthers” are quiet people from all walks of life that don’t dare speak out on the possible crimes that are the issue. They live to enjoy what isn’t tainted by the despair of suspecting these nasty truths. They don’t really care about Obama being the President. I, personally hope to one day see the office retired. In all honesty, some and maybe most just want to help other people. That’s what motivates me.

    I have to disagree here. Birthers are far from “quite people”. They’re also far from “all walks of life.” Polls have generally shown birthers to be lower-class white people from the south, by-and-large. Is this true for all birthers, no. However, they also tend to be far from “quiet people”. I’d hardly call Jerome Corsi, Philip Berg, Orly Taitz, Sharon Meroni, Teresa Cao, or even the lady who held up her birth certificate at Mike Castle’s town hall to be “quiet”. They’re usually the loudest.

    As far as them not caring that Obama is President. They’re rallying cry seems to be to remove President Obama from the office of the President.

    You shouldn’t go assuming that I’m a dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy guy, who buys into these theories as a habit. Actually, I have ruled out much more than I’ve adopted. In fact, on the topic of Obama I’m not even able to decide whether he’s a conspirator or the victim of blackmail. Much evidence exists that a very well-established system of blackmailing our leaders has been in place and nearly perfected. So, I don’t know.

    And yet, here you believe that there’s a conspiracy to keep Obama in the Presidency, and yet you don’t want to be labeled a “conspiracy” guy. According to your own words, you believe that there is a vast conspiracy that is powerful enough to blackmail Obama. You just haven’t decided if Obama is a willing participant in that conspiracy.