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WorldNetDaily announces plan to boost book sales

WorldNetDaily has responded to a slump in sales of its flagship book, Where’s the Birth Certificate?

We’ve been tracking plunging sales over the past month here at Obama Conspiracy Theories. The latest figures from Amazon.com tell the story:

Where’s the Birth Certificate? sales rank at Amazon.com

Click to enlarge

Joseph Farah of WorldNetDaily has come out swinging. Farah announced on his web site today that a promotional agreement has been signed between WND and General Mills to put millions of copies of a special fine print edition of WTBC? into boxes of Count Chocula as toy premiums. The promotion should make the book one of the world’s all-time best sellers. Farah noted that if Obama can do it, so can he.

When asked why he chose Count Chocula, Farah replied that this cereal is exactly the thing that the Obama administration is trying to take away from children and, Farah added, “Franken Berry” is for fags. Senator Al Franken (D-MN) was not amused. He responded in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder that Farah might be held for one count of contributing to the delinquency of a minor for each box sold.

The New York Times reports that WorldNetDaily has bulk ordered 50,000 boxes of the cereal.

Anyone who hasn’t realized by now that this is satire, is an idiot.

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63 Responses to WorldNetDaily announces plan to boost book sales

  1. avatar
    katahdin June 26, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    Is it just me, or does Count Chocula look like Rick Santorum?

  2. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett June 27, 2011 at 12:09 am #

    God dammit! I KNEW Count Chocula was part of the conspiracy!

  3. avatar
    richCares June 27, 2011 at 1:45 am #

    Mr Farah says you are hurting his book sales and should stop it. He said “Stop it, I want to scam more books”, Corsi agreed, they might sew. (because they can’t sue)

  4. avatar
    G June 27, 2011 at 2:02 am #

    Hilarious! Thanks for the late night laughs before starting a busy work week.

  5. avatar
    John Potter June 27, 2011 at 2:09 am #

    Brilliant! Heading to the store to get mine now. I buy and sell in the Amazon Marketplace …. have never seen a book fall so far so fast. Reassurance that it is indeed a dead issue with the general public, very little curiosity value.

  6. avatar
    John Potter June 27, 2011 at 2:52 am #

    …. and it just hit #3,000 on Amazon.

  7. avatar
    DaveH June 27, 2011 at 6:48 am #

    As I read through this I kept saying to myself “You have to be kidding!” and “This has to be satire”. It’s a good thing that you added that last line to confirm that it is satire. Joey would of had a mad at ya for it.

  8. avatar
    Reality Check June 27, 2011 at 7:27 am #

    Bravo Doc!

  9. avatar
    Bob June 27, 2011 at 8:05 am #

    Count Chocula and James O’Keefe, separated at birth?

    ☞LINK

  10. avatar
    ASK Esq June 27, 2011 at 9:23 am #

    This makes sense, actually. WTBC is the investigative journalistic equivalent to Count Chocula. They both take the basic space and shape of what they’re supposed to be, one a book, one a breakfast. And you can consume them both and feel full. But you won’t get any actual benefit from either one.

  11. avatar
    MaryMitch June 27, 2011 at 10:24 am #

    Cocoa Puffs are better. I’m coo-coo for them!

  12. avatar
    Stanislaw June 27, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    MaryMitch:
    Cocoa Puffs are better. I’m coo-coo for them!

    I’ve always been a fan of Cocoa Pebbles, myself.

  13. avatar
    Mary Brown June 27, 2011 at 12:40 pm #

    Is this a joke?

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 27, 2011 at 1:04 pm #

    The Doc pauses, looks to the right and to the left and says very slowly and with rising pitch, “yes.”

    Mary Brown:
    Is this a joke?

  15. avatar
    J.Potter June 27, 2011 at 4:24 pm #

    Nice update on the graphic, Doc!

    Be even better it the graph was a dynamic object, updated hourly. Might have to switch to a logarithmic scale in a few days!

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 27, 2011 at 5:57 pm #

    Thanks. I think that WTBC? has fallen off the charts and is no longer news. I intend to phase out the sidebar coverage of it. I hope this is my parting shot on this topic.

    J.Potter: Nice update on the graphic, Doc!

    Be even better it the graph was a dynamic object, updated hourly. Might have to switch to a logarithmic scale in a few days!

  17. avatar
    Paper June 27, 2011 at 6:52 pm #

    One fake birth certificate, two fake birth certificates, three fake birth certificates, four fake birth certificates, FIVE fake birth certificates, hahahahahaha. [Brought to you by the number 5.]

  18. avatar
    US Citizen June 27, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    I can see it now…

    General Mills, the official food supplier of all FEMA incarceration camps is now proud to present – Nutritious Wheaty Oats!
    The NWO breakfast cereal!

    Fortified with bat guano and just enough niacin for any scientologists in your family, NWO gives your family the energy needed to form citizen grand juries, call politicians continuously or simply sit and watch Fox news all day.

    All grain ingredients grown in crops exposed to no more than 2% chemtrails per year.
    (may contain dated Y2K foodstuffs not to exceed 10%)

    NWO!

    A great whey to eat RIGHT!

  19. avatar
    Sef June 27, 2011 at 7:14 pm #

    What’s the shredder threshold?

  20. avatar
    Daniel June 27, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    Paper:
    One fake birth certificate, two fake birth certificates, three fake birth certificates, four fake birth certificates, FIVE fake birth certificates, hahahahahaha.[Brought to you by the number 5.]

    Paper: If you suspect that your birth certificate is fake, you shold probably petition your birth state to issue you a certified copy of your original. That way you will have an iron clad, ireffutably legal, authentic and legal for identification anywhere in the US, birth certificate.

    Obama did so, and now nobody but a few morons question it.

  21. avatar
    Paper June 27, 2011 at 7:34 pm #

    Can’t wait until Cracker Jacks gets into the mix.

  22. avatar
    Paper June 27, 2011 at 7:45 pm #

    @Daniel, this is like the last time…satire! In the last satire thread, it made some sense for you to confuse me with a birther, but come on, get with the program!

    I am not the birther. That’s Sesame Street, and General Mills, clearly.

    But to your point, I actually possess two fake birth certificates (not my doing), courtesy of unmentionable sources (again, not my doing).. I also have my hospital souvenir copy, and the real state issued one, which is the one I used to get my passport long ago.

    Daniel: Paper: If you suspect that your birth certificate is fake, you shold probably petition your birth state to issue you a certified copy of your original. That way you will have an iron clad, ireffutably legal, authentic and legal for identification anywhere in the US, birth certificate.

    Obama did so, and now nobody but a few morons question it.

  23. avatar
    Majority Will June 27, 2011 at 7:59 pm #

    Paper: [Brought to you by the number 5.]

    And by two slightly different looking e’s.

  24. avatar
    Majority Will June 27, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    Paper:
    Can’t wait until Cracker Jacks gets into the mix.

    One very special prize will be Obama’s kindergarten records.

  25. avatar
    Paper June 27, 2011 at 8:11 pm #

    I have to say, I am so far from a birther it is ridiculous, but I am starting to question my allegiance. Is there a third party movement separate from Obots and Birthers?

    The Skip to My Lou Party?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_to_My_Lou

    @Majority Will, any ideas for a platform?

  26. avatar
    Charlie Burrow June 27, 2011 at 8:23 pm #

    Consumer Alert: FDA orders Count Chocula recall – birther book causes choking hazard!

  27. avatar
    Majority Will June 27, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    Paper:
    I have to say, I am so far from a birther it is ridiculous, but I am starting to question my allegiance.Is there a third party movement separate from Obots and Birthers?

    The Skip to My Lou Party?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skip_to_My_Lou

    @Majority Will, any ideas for a platform?

    Absolutely.

    Now go on with your bad self. Testify.

  28. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) June 27, 2011 at 8:44 pm #

    I’m sure Farrah is going to be posting on WND soon asking to raise money to try to sue you over satire.

  29. avatar
    Paper June 27, 2011 at 9:18 pm #

    The Skip to My Lou Party Platform:

    Item #1

    Free (virtual) irony meters for all! The true healthcare solution.

    Here is a recent true (make-believe) report from our test roll out in Texas.

    Doctor: Who told you you have a hernia?

    Patient: But Doctor, the pain!

    D: Oh, that. That’s just a joke the universe is playing on you.

    P: Still hurts…

    D: Here, we’ll give you a free virtual irony meter. Okay, have a good afternoon, then.

    P: Wait. What about the free meter?

    D: We already installed it during surgery.

    P: Surgery! What surgery?

    D: See, it’s working already. If you have any more symptoms, I recommend two cups of Count Chocula for breakfast everyday.

    The Skip to My Lou Party: Saving the government money the old-fashioned way. Honest! We’re on Wikipedia!

  30. avatar
    Paper June 27, 2011 at 9:23 pm #

    @Majority Will, great! Perfect for our party logo:

    Majority Will: Absolutely.

  31. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 27, 2011 at 10:55 pm #

    But if sues, saying the article was believable, then he would have to admit he was an idiot.

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): I’m sure Farrah is going to be posting on WND soon asking to raise money to try to sue you over satire.

  32. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 27, 2011 at 11:03 pm #

    That was funny.

    I used to have a pre-1960 Underwood typewriter and I think I will go see the fellow I gave it to and type up some samples. Still, there is a lot we don’t know about how the long form was made, so trying to duplicate the process will be iffy. For example, we don’t know whether the original long form was scanned and printed, or photocopied, nor at what resolution. The same for how the White House made the B&W press copy.

    Majority Will: And by two slightly different looking e’s.

  33. avatar
    Paper June 27, 2011 at 11:15 pm #

    Skip to My Lou Party Platform #2:

    Free access to the authentic, original, paper birth certificate of every citizen by every citizen for every citizen.

    Anyone and everyone can touch and examine and take samples of every single birth certificate in the country. If there is any question of authenticity of any paper document, all citizens will participate in special votes to approve each individual citizen as real, or reject as fake.

    No more nanny state having conniption fits about wear and tear or theft or damage, accidental or intentional! But ironically enough, also approved by the NWO. Well-known secret head of the NWO, David Rockefeller said: “Give them a year of that, and they’ll come begging for a dictatorship.”

  34. avatar
    Keith June 28, 2011 at 4:05 am #

    Paper:
    Can’t wait until Cracker Jacks gets into the mix.

    Is this code for the “Peanut Farmer Conspiracy” that is trying to increase the ratio of peanuts to popcorn kernals in Cracker Jacks?

    Darn good thing that Ronnie Raygun beat that nazi commie peanut conspiratoramus or we’d all be driving around in electric vehicles instead of turning our God given corn into alcohol. Can it be a coincidence that Carter is a DEMOCRAT?

    The answer isn’t more PEANUTS you ignorat Prius driving latte drinkers! Its more CORNCOB pipes so we can all look the part when we sit around the cracker barrel.

    But I digress, I’m NOT talking about CHEESE. I’m talking about PEANUTS! PEANUTS AND CORN!. PEANUTS may be better than CRACKERS, especially when the cracker is a peanut farmer, but they AIN”T better than a TACO SHELL. NO WAY, NO HOW.

    And you need CORN for TACO SHELLS. SO THERE!

    There must be a video about all this, look it up. Google is your friend.

    signed

    Me
    Girl Chaser (in my dreams)

  35. avatar
    obsolete June 28, 2011 at 4:20 am #

    Paper: If there is any question of authenticity of any paper document, all citizens will participate in special votes to approve each individual citizen as real, or reject as fake.

    Vital Records by popular vote- What could possibly go wrong?

    (Paper, why are you still a doody-headed birther?) 😉

  36. avatar
    Scientist June 28, 2011 at 8:15 am #

    Paper: I have to say, I am so far from a birther it is ridiculous, but I am starting to question my allegiance. Is there a third party movement separate from Obots and Birthers?

    I would say that the vast majority of the public is neither birthers nor obots, but quite frankly doesn’t care. I’ve never seen a poll where the President’s birthplace or parentage cracked the top 10 issues. The next election will be based on how Obama has done in office and whether there is any reasonable prospect that any of his opponents can do any better.

  37. avatar
    Paper June 28, 2011 at 10:54 am #

    @Obsolete — exactly! What could possibly go wrong?

    @scientist– I know. Thankfully, thankfully most people have clear priorities! Just to be clear, Skip to My Lou is a joke to make that very point.

  38. avatar
    richCares June 29, 2011 at 1:43 am #

    Corsi’s book really tanked and WND blames Esquire, Corsi and Farah claim they will initiate suit at press conference on 6/29/2011. That will be fun, Corsi’s writes total BS on Obama in a very derogatory way, Esquire satirizes it and WND sues Esquire, that is Funny!

  39. avatar
    Expelliarmus June 29, 2011 at 3:03 am #

    Hey, maybe Corsi should sue Obama and try to get an injunction to force Obama to un-release the birth certificate and move the PDF off of the White House web site… because it really hurts book sales when Obama refuses to hide the damn thing.

  40. avatar
    Wile E. June 29, 2011 at 10:53 am #

    I was schadenfreudenally wondering if any of you folks had friends in the publishing business who would be able to shed some light on how much profit or loss the different parties involved in the making of this “book” might reasonably expect.

    Secondly, did any new accusations arise from the release of “WTBC?” that were even worthy of being debunked?

  41. avatar
    J.Potter June 29, 2011 at 11:33 am #

    Without inside information re: costs, production and distribution contract terms, actual sales info (including to whom), and particularly in the light of the infamous in the NYT (indicating bulk purchases), it would be really hard to put a number with any accuracy on that. Would be a fun subject to dig into, if at all possible. It’s almost certainly an accounting shell game to some extent. If not entirely. And all written off as “the price of freedom” no doubt.

    New accusations? There’s always some new crazy, but I would venture a general “no” from the book itself. See the same material in birther scribblings back to 2009. The release of the long-form BC stimulated a wave of irrelevant silliness. Maybe you could credit that to the book to an extent, if you believe Trump and Corsi had any ties, but I think that’s a stretch. Two exploitation artists playing each other?

    Wile E.:
    I was schadenfreudenally wondering if any of you folks had friends in the publishing business who would be able to shed some light on how much profit or loss the different parties involved in the making of this “book” might reasonably expect.

    Secondly, did any new accusations arise from the release of “WTBC?” that were even worthy of being debunked?

  42. avatar
    Charlie Burrow June 29, 2011 at 1:42 pm #

    J.Potter:

    New accusations? There’s always some new crazy, but I would venture a general “no” from the book itself. See the same material in birther scribblings back to 2009. The release of the long-form BC stimulated a wave of irrelevant silliness.

    Speaking of silliness, a Corsi theory that posted to WND two days ago and is apparently not in his book (which I haven’t read but searched via Amazon’s “Look Inside!” function) suggests that Obama’s grandfather Stanley Dunham was on hand to welcome Obama Senior when he first arrived in Hawaii in 1959 (a photo Corsi found on the internet shows the two together at the arrival event!), more than a year before the conventional Obama storyline has Obama Senior pairing up with Ann Dunham at the U of Hawaii in Fall 1960, ergo, Corsi concludes that Gramps & Senior were in cahoots to cover up Junior’s real father, Frank Marshall Davis, a known black-activist communist, of course, who was then living in Hawaii. Pretty straightforward reporting.

    One puzzling thing, though, is that the same photo was used last year in a Jack Cashill piece in which Cashill credits Corsi as the source of the photo and says it was taken in 1962 as Obama Senior was departing Hawaii for Harvard. I’m not sure yet how that fits into Corsi’s theory.

    Jerome Corsi, Does WND’s reporting rule out an Obama Kenya birth?, June 27, 2011
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=316265

    Jack Cashill, A Further Inquiry to Obama’s Origins, February, 14, 2010
    http://www.cashill.com/intellect_fraud/further_inquiry.htm

  43. avatar
    J.Potter June 29, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

    Yep. Corsi did claim to have “enough material for two sequels” to WTBC?, a claim that will no doubt become a self-fulfilled prophecy, as he continues to rehash his swill, but my questions has been, if this is supposed to be a case to impeach a sitting president, etc., etc., then why would he make a partial release? Wouldn’t you put all your cards on the table to make the best case possible? This isn’t just empty bluster, is it? He isn’t triple-dipping the faithful, is he? He doesn’t hold his continued writing career above the truth, does he?

    Nuts.

    Charlie Burrow:

    Speaking of silliness, a Corsi theory that posted to WND two days ago …

  44. avatar
    richCares June 29, 2011 at 2:53 pm #

    if you want a laugh, read Corsi’s scibd on his suit!

    http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/58982104?access_key=key-lt4jyphk7tcx7gdykd9

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 29, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    I always thought that Corsi cribbed his book off this web site. This is, after all, a fairly comprehensive index of the birther junk. Corsi only credits me 3 times, but at least I know he reads it.

    Wile E.: Secondly, did any new accusations arise from the release of “WTBC?” that were even worthy of being debunked?

  46. avatar
    J.Potter June 29, 2011 at 3:10 pm #

    Thanks, Rich! You can’t underestimate these people. We should pass the hat to compensate Judge Collyer and her staff for their time. I stopped adding up the “claims” at $105,000,000. Some very expensive books in their minds.

    The filing lost me at the assertion that WND “competes” with Esquire. Well, they do both publish themselves on the same planet….

    richCares:
    if you want a laugh, read Corsi’s scibd on his suit!

    http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/58982104?access_key=key-lt4jyphk7tcx7gdykd9

  47. avatar
    Bovril June 29, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    Sweeetttt

    Classic lines

    “Plaintiff Joseph Farah is at all times material hereto the Editor and Chief Executive Officer of WorldNetDaily.com, a news and commentary Internet publication which competes nationally and internationally with Defendant Esquire Magazine”

    Yeah, porn “tache you and Esquire REALLY compete for the same markets….

    Plaintiff jerome Corsi is a world renowned author

    Only in his own mind

    Defendant, Esquire Magazine Inc. (“Esquire”), is a print and Internet publication that competes with Plaintiff WorldNetDaily

    Repeating the line does not make it true

    Plaintiffs Farah, Corsi, WorldNetDaily.com and WNDBooks (“collectively WorldNetDaily”) have at all material times covered the controversy concerning whether or not President Barack Hussein Obama is a naturalborn American citizen eligible to be President oftheUnited States.

    A manufactured piece of BS does NOT a controversy make

    About 25percent of the American people believe that because President Barack Obama waited many years to release what he now claims is his birth certificate, as well as other factors, that the newly released birth
    certificate is fraudulentand that he is not eligible to be President of the United States

    Arrant BS, speculation, opinions, supposition, defamatory and an outright lie…multi-trifecta….

    Defendant Warren, on behalf of himself and Esquire, told The Daily Caller that they had “no regrets” in posting the subject stories and tha tPlaintiff Corsi, and by extension the other Plaintiffs,are an “execrable piece ofs hit.” The Daily Caller published these statements on May18 and19,2011i ntheDistrict ofColumbia, nationally and internationally.

    First fact….. 😎

    Oh and in total they want $225,000,000 for their sadz.

  48. avatar
    Sef June 29, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    richCares:
    if you want a laugh, read Corsi’s scibd on his suit!

    http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/58982104?access_key=key-lt4jyphk7tcx7gdykd9

    What’s the penalty for malicious use of the courts? I doubt Esquire is going to treat this quite the same as Orly’s fake lawsuits have been treated. Who has the popcorn concession?

  49. avatar
    kenyanbornobamacorn June 29, 2011 at 10:43 pm #

    Hey, what’s up losers?

    You people act like just because the book isn’t still number 1, that the issue goes away!

    LOLOL, not a chance. We are getting more and more publicity on the issue and people aren’t stupid, they are passing the book around, so it’s definitely getting read. My book is already on the 3rd person now and I have 2 that are going to read it after.

    People are waking up and more and more state congressmen are waking up. I’m making a video on Vattel and there is so much info that can not be diusputed and I will personally make sure it goes to every state and federal congressman and every news agency I can find.

    The truth is coming out more and more and you people will go down as the ones who aided and abetted a criminal!

    [Wake me when something actually happens. I’ve been listening to birther braggadocio for two and a half years not, and nothing ever comes of it. Doc.]

  50. avatar
    kenyanbornobamacorn June 29, 2011 at 11:06 pm #

    Something you all should read, but will you? NO!!!

    Because facts to you all are like water on the wicked witch!

    I’m melting, I’m melting!!!

    [Uncouth comment deleted. Our birther du jour isn’t very cultured. Doc.]

    Commentaries on American Law (1826-30)
    http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/kent/kent-09.htm#fn1d

    [I looked it, but I didn’t see any relevance to the question of natural born citizenship. This article is about piracy. Everybody knows, Emer de Vattel is a major authority on pirates. Arrrrr. Doc.]

  51. avatar
    obsolete June 30, 2011 at 1:34 am #

    New batch in, KBOA?

  52. avatar
    Joey June 30, 2011 at 1:45 am #

    If birthers are having an impact, it sure doesn’t show up in the latst polls on Obama’s favorabitity ratings. Even folks who don’t think the president is doing a very good job appear to still like him personally.

    McClatchy-Marist Poll. June 15-23, 2011. N=801 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error 3.5.
    “Overall, do you have a favorable or an unfavorable impression of Barack Obama?”

    Favorable; 50%
    Unfavorable ; 44%
    Never heardof/Unsure; 6%
    ——————————————————————————–
    AP-GfK Poll conducted by GfK Roper Public Affairs & Corporate Communications. June 16-20, 2011. N=1,001 adults nationwide. Margin of error 4.1.

    “Do you have a favorable or unfavorable impression of Barack Obama?”

    Favorable; 56%
    Unfavorable: 43%
    Unsure; —
    Refused: 1%

  53. avatar
    Bovril June 30, 2011 at 5:59 am #

    @obsolete

    Must be an inferior and well stamped on batch, only two posts and one irrelevant link. Well below Trace’s usual “standards”

  54. avatar
    Northland10 June 30, 2011 at 6:57 am #

    kenyanbornobamacorn: People are waking up and more and more state congressmen are waking up. I’m making a video on Vattel and there is so much info that can not be diusputed and I will personally make sure it goes to every state and federal congressman and every news agency I can find.

    The truth is coming out more and more and you people will go down as the ones who aided and abetted a criminal!

    State legislators are waking up to the issue? Are these the some ones that have failed to pass all of the birther bills? The birthers do have an interesting definition of success. This must mean that all of the court cases they lost and the Congressman Issa hearings held shows that the birthers have a slam dunk win.

    Now, she keeps saying the truth is coming out but she is not about the BC. Therefore, the only truth for her is whether the President’s father was a citizen or not. Well, on that part, she is correct, the truth is out and his father was not a citizen. Who was it who broke that truth? Well, one of them was Obama himself when he wrote Dreams of My Father.

    So, we know that Obama told the truth about his father, and the people, Electoral College and Congress saw fit to elect him and certify the votes knowing he only had one citizen parent. Yet, KBOA calls the person who was honest about is father a criminal. Very odd indeed.

    Even if there were a 2 citizen parent requirement, which there is not, he acknowledged his status and the Congress certified anyway (and the CJ swore him in). Therefore, the fault is no longer his and there is no fraud on his part. He did not hide a thing regarding his father.

  55. avatar
    ballantine June 30, 2011 at 7:29 am #

    kenyanbornobamacorn:
    Something you all should read, but will you? NO!!!

    Because facts to you all are like water on the wicked witch!

    I’m melting, I’m melting!!!

    [Uncouth comment deleted. Our birther du jour isn’t very cultured. Doc.]

    Commentaries on American Law (1826-30)
    http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/kent/kent-09.htm#fn1d

    [I looked it, but I didn’t see any relevance to the question of natural born citizenship. This article is about piracy. Everybody knows, Emer de Vattel is a major authority on pirates. Arrrrr. Doc.]

    Wow, you can read Kent. Now turn to the pages on citizenship, not piracy. DUH.

    “And if, at common law, all human beings born within the ligeance of the King, and under the King’s obedience, were natural-born subjects, and not aliens, I do not perceive why this doctrine does not apply to these United States, in all cases in which there is no express constitutional or statute declaration to the contrary. . . . Subject and citizen are, in a degree, convertible terms as applied to natives, and though the term citizen seems to be appropriate to republican freemen, yet we are, equally with the inhabitants of all other countries, subjects, for we are equally bound by allegiance and subjection to the government and law of the land…The better opinion, I should think, was, that negroes or other slaves, born within and under the allegiance of the United States, are natural born subjects, but not citizens. Citizens, under our constitutions nnd laws, mean free inlnbitants, born within the United States, or naturalized, under the laws of Congress.”

    “Natives are all persons born within the jurisdiction of the United States…..An alien is a person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States. There are some exceptions, however, to this rule, by the ancient English law, as in the case of the children of public ministers abroad, (provided their wives be English women,) for they owe not even a local allegiance to any foreign power. ”

    “As the President is required to be a native citizen of the United States….”

    See anything to support you? All English common law. Hard to imagine the mind that thinks a citation of Vattel on piracy as anything to do with citizenship. Really, why would you possibly think it significant?

  56. avatar
    Lupin June 30, 2011 at 11:14 am #

    kenyanbornobamacorn: People are waking up and more and more state congressmen are waking up. I’m making a video on Vattel

    You should make a video on velcro.

    Without it I doubt you could tie your shoes in the morning.

  57. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 30, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    Perhaps KBOA considers Obama a Pirate.

    ballantine: See anything to support you? All English common law. Hard to imagine the mind that thinks a citation of Vattel on piracy as anything to do with citizenship. Really, why would you possibly think it significant?

  58. avatar
    Northland10 June 30, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Perhaps KBOA considers Obama a Pirate.

    Now that could be a rather fun video to watch.

  59. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny June 30, 2011 at 9:48 pm #

    kenyanbornobamacorn, le frisson des vampires du Connecticut, mentionnait:

    Commentaries on American Law (1826-30)
    http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/kent/kent-09.htm#fn1d

    [I looked it, but I didn’t see any relevance to the question of natural born citizenship. This article is about piracy. Everybody knows, Emer de Vattel is a major authority on pirates. Arrrrr. Doc.]

    Actually, I did find one. The paragraph that starts with “A natural born subject” (you can use the search facility of your browser) strongly suggests that there were in 1790 citizens of the USA who under the law of nations qualified as … natural born subjects. Probably takes care of the argument that George Washington was a usurper because his state ratified the Constitution too late. But also of the fact that the rule about not having any other citizenship did not apply to Jefferson because “he was grandfathered in”.

    It is rather funny that the text KBOA is quoting is obviously the result of OCRing a scanned text. Talking about layers, it contains several “spelling errors” which are obviously the result of scanning: “felonies committed on the high sects”, “the purchase of slaves oil any part of the coast of Africa” (typical errors that a spelling checker would not flag) …

    If KBOA wants to use this text to prove the supremacy of The Law of Nations (you know, that book written by a Prussian-what’s-his-name) over common law, she will face quite a task in trying to explain away the use of the phrase “the common law of nations”. No capitals there.

  60. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 1, 2011 at 8:03 am #

    It is generally recognized that the United States began in 1776, and so there were citizens of the United States in all 13 states before the ratification of the Constitution. And further they considered anyone born in one of the 13 colonies to be natural born citizens of the United States because when Virginia became a part of the United States (in 1776) the entire society became American. This made Washington a natural born citizen by the usual definition. The problem for the birthers is that Washington’s father died before the Revolution a British subject and so could not become an American when Virginia joined the Confederation.

    This leads us to one of those questions which no birther has ever been willing to answer: Did John Jay consider George Washington to be qualified to be Commander in Chief?

    Paul Pieniezny: he paragraph that starts with “A natural born subject” (you can use the search facility of your browser) strongly suggests that there were in 1790 citizens of the USA who under the law of nations qualified as … natural born subjects.

  61. avatar
    ballantine July 1, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    Actually, I did find one. The paragraph that starts with “A natural born subject” (you can use the search facility of your browser) strongly suggests that there were in 1790 citizens of the USA who under the law of nations qualified as … natural born subjects. blockquote>

    I don’t read it like that. He was clearly talking about English cases and then said we followed an English statute. Obviously the English cases and statute would refer to “natural born subjects.” Just because English cases and Parliament dealt with the application of the law of nations to their “natural born subjects” doesn’t mean that such term was defined under international law versus English law. England called both native-born and naturalized subjects “natural born” and it would be silly to think law of piracy applied differently to these classes. Our law simply applied to all citizens as again it didn’t matter what type of citizen one was when talking about committing a crime. If we want to know Kent’s definition of “natural born subject,” we don’t have to guess, as he defined it for us.

  62. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny July 1, 2011 at 11:17 pm #

    Paul Pieniezny: kenyanbornobamacorn, le frisson des vampires du Connecticut, mentionnait:

    I suppose some people googled the name of that vampire cult film from 1971.
    http://static.zooomr.com/images/6145789_5fa75893fd.jpg

    But just in case Lupin or others wonder what is the connection to Vattel:
    I actually have the original movie in French. Somewhere at the beginning, the heroine (the new bride dressed in white who is about to be transformed into a vampire) is asked by the Lady of the Castle (a lady in black, who will have to die to make place for the new arrival) why she is praying at two freshly dug graves. She answers:

    “C’est ici que reposent deux hommes. Mes derniers parents.” (translation: “This is where two men have found their rest. My last remaining ‘parents’. “)

    I remember I thought it funny at the time.

    If only I had the English version as well (“Strange Things happen at Night”- perhaps somewhere, someone on this blog can check their collection, also check under the alternative title “The Shiver of the Vampires”) perhaps I could make a video on Vattel. For once, the fact that it is video and not text on a blog would actually give it a plus value.

  63. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny July 2, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    ballantine:

    But the text actually says this:

    If a natural born subject was to take prizes belonging to his native country, in pursuance of a foreign commission …

    Logically, if “natural born subject” applied to a naturalized subject here, the prizes (that is: ships and whatever they had aboard) that he took would belong to the country he was born a subject of. But that sort of thing (people switching country to attack their native country) was actually deemed normal in those days. Jean Baert, after Dunkirk became part of France, became a French privateer (he had been a Dutch and even a British one for some time before) and primarily attacked ships belonging to his former country of birth: the Netherlands. On the other hand, Spanish moslims who had been exiled to Morocco there built a fleet to attack Spanish ships – they were to become the famous Barbary Coast pirates. Many buccaneers in the Caribbean were French Huguenots who had started their questionable careers as privateers with an English commission to take French ships.

    No, this passage must refer to natural born subjects of country A who may, or may not have naturalized to be subjects of country B and who are attacking and taking ships of coutry A. Here, “natural born” is a synonym of “native”.