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Clockwise v anticlockwise

The topic is Tim Adams’ May 2011 masters thesis. [The preceding link is to a PDF. I had problems opening it in my browser. I suggest you “save as” and read it offline.] Adams came to prominence in the Birtherverse, when he, a clerk at the Hawaii Elections Division, came forward to say that Barack Obama had no long-form birth certificate. He never explained exactly how he knew that, but he nevertheless became an instant celebrity among the birthers.

Now two news sources, WorldNetDaily and ConWebWatch are reporting on his thesis presented at Western Kentucky University, one defending Adams and one painting Adams and his paper in the worst possible light.

There are two issues here: fairness and accuracy. Neither article is fair: WND ignores anything bad in the thesis and ConWebWatch ignores anything good. They are both advocacy pieces. However, Cashill is not accurate and as far as I can tell ConWebWatch is. I left this comment at WorldNetDaily:

WND is an odd source. They will print some lies and they won’t print others. Joseph Farah defends the rights of his "commentators" to say whatever they want, so the demonstrably fake story of the 1981 Travel Ban to Pakistan by commentator Janet Folger Porter remains at WND since 2009 with no hint that it’s a lie. On the other hand WND has vigorously debunked the fake Kenyan birth certificates for Barack Obama.

The problem is that it is difficult to know when WND is engaging in reporting (where they won’t usually lie outright) or printing commentary (where the commentators are free to lie outright) and I’m not sure that even WND always keep that straight. Generally all of the "experts" saying Obama’s long form is a fake are commentary or reporting of commentary. I suppose Bob Unruh is a reporter, and I don’t know what Jerome Corsi and Jack Cashill are.

What you can be sure of is that WND is a highly biased web site that engages in spin, innuendo and taking things out of context. Accepting anything from WND without confirmation from elsewhere is a recipe for embarrassment.

I was in error on one point; it is clear from the story’s labeling that Cashill is a commentator.

The Adams thesis is turgid and rambling and, in my opinion, totally unsuited for a scholarly thesis. I read a little and got disgusted.

475 Responses to Clockwise v anticlockwise

  1. avatar
    Black Lion August 22, 2011 at 7:34 am #

    Anyone hear about old buddy Tim Adams? He has a new “Master’s Thesis”….Funny stuff…

    Tim Adams’ Crappy Master’s Thesis
    Topic: WorldNetDaily

    In reviewing Jack Cashill’s WorldNetDaily column on Tim Adams and his master’s thesis, we noted that the thesis contains even more distortions and omissions of fact than Cashill’s column — things that should have raised concerns among the thesis committee at Western Kentucky University, where Adams is obtaining his master’s degree. We will examine them here.

    One only needs to look at the title page for a big red flag in the form of an embarrassing misspelling of Obama’s name:

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog?entry_id=2227713

  2. avatar
    G August 22, 2011 at 9:30 am #

    Wow. Thanks for the link BL & great to hear from you again! I read that whole article at your link. What a clunker of a poorly written & sourced paper that Adams is trying to pass off as his Masters Thesis. I can’t see the paper making the grade. It would fail as a junior high essay.

    Black Lion: Anyone hear about old buddy Tim Adams? He has a new “Master’s Thesis”….Funny stuff…Tim Adams’ Crappy Master’s ThesisTopic: WorldNetDailyIn reviewing Jack Cashill’s WorldNetDaily column on Tim Adams and his master’s thesis, we noted that the thesis contains even more distortions and omissions of fact than Cashill’s column — things that should have raised concerns among the thesis committee at Western Kentucky University, where Adams is obtaining his master’s degree. We will examine them here.One only needs to look at the title page for a big red flag in the form of an embarrassing misspelling of Obama’s name:http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog?entry_id=2227713

  3. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 22, 2011 at 9:45 am #

    I think you have an overly-high opinion of junior high essays.

    G: It would fail as a junior high essay.

  4. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 22, 2011 at 9:52 am #

    I did not intend to say that there was anything wrong with ConWebWatch writing an advocacy piece. Advocacy, when it is factually accurate and straightforward is an honorable form of writing.

  5. avatar
    Tarrant August 22, 2011 at 10:51 am #

    As someone who HAS gone through the process of writing a thesis and doctoral dissertation, it actually pains me to see something so amateurish submitted as a thesis. I would hope that it would be rejected, but it wouldn’t surprise me were it not. For better or worse, the master’s thesis has gone out of style in many ways and is merely a formality in many disciplines.

    It’s clear from reading that the “thesis” is simply an excuse to write more anti-Obama screed and try to pass it off as “real research because see, it’s a thesis!”

  6. avatar
    The Magic M August 22, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    > The Adams thesis is turgid and rambling and, in my opinion, totally unsuited for a scholarly thesis.

    It reads more like a chapter of his autobiography. Lots of anecdotical stories, including dialogue represented (quasi-) verbatim, musings about this and that (totally unrelated to Obama or the general scope of the thesis).

    This would kinda be like me filling my master’s thesis in maths with lots of paragraphs of how I talked to other mathematicians, but also football fans and elephant hunters, or what motivated me to love logic and numbers.

    In fact, when I started reading this “thesis”, I expected it to be a Vogt-like amalgamate of most birther talking points, dressed up as an “objective” overview.
    I didn’t expect to read an elongated blog entry of “what I think of the US and politics” with some incidental references to Obama and the BC issue.
    As such, the thesis isn’t interesting even to the birthers.

    Maybe this was, from the beginning, only about the propaganda value – such as “thesis on Obama controversy accepted by university” (glossing over the fact that “accepted” doesn’t mean “considered sufficient for awarding a degree”).

    I mean, who in his right mind would submit such a patchwork and expect it to even be dignified with an “F+”?

  7. avatar
    Bovril August 22, 2011 at 10:58 am #

    Doc,

    Just a minor caveat regarding Adams, he was a temporary contractor at Hawai’i not an employee.

    This belies the outright lies he blathered about the amazing levels of access he had….

  8. avatar
    Tarrant August 22, 2011 at 11:01 am #

    Magic M:

    100% agreed. The “propaganda value” is what they’re after here. The “Tim Adams No Birth Certificate Thesis Accepted by University!!!!” headline. Much like how thing like “Letter about Obama birth certificate signed for by (congressman)’s office!” or the more recent distortion of a headline, “Arpaio accepts evidence” and assuming that means a full investigation is underway.

  9. avatar
    J.Potter August 22, 2011 at 11:11 am #

    This thesis is headed for the English Department? Is he studying creative writing?

    The WKU teams are nicknamed Hilltoppers. Mr. Adams is indeed topping a hill …

  10. avatar
    JoZeppy August 22, 2011 at 11:19 am #

    I really don’t know what to say about this “thesis” in part because I wasn’t an English majory. I have a MA in history, and a JD. Both had writing requirements, but they needed to be based in some kind if examination of something remotely resembling facts. English is just a little too fuzzy froo-froo, for even a liberal arts kind of guy like me. Silly things like use of conjuctions would get a draft unceremoniously thrown back in my face by either my thesis or note advisors. Not to mention the mis-spelling of the President’s name in the title was a low point (my MA thesis covered East-Central Europe, and my advisor and I had long discussions about proper translitteration of Russian names…but mis-spelling the name of the current American President? You have got to be kidding me!!)

    I guess I really don’t know what you can get away with in an English Thesis. Are there any rules?

  11. avatar
    Arthur August 22, 2011 at 11:22 am #

    I thought it was funny that the ConWebWatch blogger, while correctly pointing out an attribution error make by Adams , further confuses the issue by making his own error in attribution.

    The blogger writes, “Adams makes other embarrassing errors as well. For instance, he writes, ‘The other reason anyone daring to call the current administration into question is because to quote the Rolling Stones, “Meet the new boss/same as the old boss” (“Teenage Wasteland”)’ — managing to get both the name of the song the lyric comes from and the band that performed it completely wrong. (It’s “Baba O’Riley” by The Who.)

    As many will recognize, “Meet the new boss/Same as the old boss,” comes from The Who song “Won’t Get Fooled Again,” and not “Baba O’Riley”-although both songs appear on the same album, “Who’s Next” (1971).

    You’re welcome.

  12. avatar
    Tarrant August 22, 2011 at 11:26 am #

    My doctorate is in electrical engineering, perhaps it’s different in English, but some of the basic errors in this document wouldn’t get past my advisor – there is no way any competent thesis advisor would let this get submitted. It reflects as badly on them as it does the student.

    But again, engineering in the end has to deal with the real world. I built things as par of my doctoral research. In the English department, things may be different (and I don’t say that as a knock on English, just that requirements may be different – but not so different that this should be acceptable).

  13. avatar
    Terry K. August 22, 2011 at 11:44 am #

    D’oh! Thanks for the catch, Arthur. I’ve fixed the song title in my post.

  14. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    Arthur:
    I thought it was funny that the ConWebWatch blogger, while correctly pointing out an attribution error make by Adams , further confuses the issue by making his own error in attribution.

    The blogger writes, “Adams makes other embarrassing errors as well. For instance, he writes, The other reason anyone daring to call the current administration into question is because to quote the Rolling Stones, “Meet the new boss/same as the old boss” (“Teenage Wasteland”)’ — managing to get both the name of the song the lyric comes from and the band that performed it completely wrong. (It’s “Baba O’Riley” by The Who.)

    As many will recognize, “Meet the new boss/Same as the old boss,” comes from The Who song “Won’t Get Fooled Again,” and not “Baba O’Riley”-although both songs appear on the same album, “Who’s Next” (1971).

    You’re welcome.

    Thank you. That’s a pet peeve of mine too. Very sloppy.

  15. avatar
    Reality Check August 22, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    I stopped reading the thesis at “Chapter II – The Beginning” 😆

  16. avatar
    Joey August 22, 2011 at 12:36 pm #

    How about writing a letter of warning to the Chair of Tim Adams’ Graduate Department at WKU alterting them to the fact that the good name and academic reputation of their department is being besmirched through being associated with a middle school term paper.

  17. avatar
    Daniel August 22, 2011 at 12:47 pm #

    From the “acknowledgments” section…

    “This project should not be considered a finished artistic production,”

    That statement, and the whole English department thing, makes me wonder if it actually was presented as serious research? Maybe it was presented as an “artistic work”, i.e. a piece of satire, or fiction?

    Pure speculation on my part, but it would help to be able to read the response to the thesis.

  18. avatar
    Daniel August 22, 2011 at 12:50 pm #

    Joey:
    How about writing a letter of warning to the Chair of Tim Adams’ Graduate Department at WKU alterting them to the fact that the good name and academic reputation of their department is being besmirched through being associated with a middle school term paper.

    You’d think WKU would be a little more careful about their academic appearance, considering the popular reputation of Kentuckians.

  19. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 12:57 pm #

    “DISCOURSE AND CONFLICT: THE PRESIDENT BARACK H. OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE CONTROVERSY AND THE NEW MEDIA”
    ********
    Black Lion wrote:
    “One only needs to look at the title page for a big red flag in the form of an embarrassing misspelling of Obama’s name:”

    Black Lion: I don’t know what is going on, but I took the above quote from Adam’s thesis title page.

    As you can see, he spelled “Barack” correctly. mirse

  20. avatar
    Daniel August 22, 2011 at 1:07 pm #

    Once again John Mirse is a day late and a dollar short lol

  21. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 1:38 pm #

    Daniel wrote: Once again John Mirse is a day late and a dollar short lol
    *******
    I don’t know what you mean, but it looks like Adams spelled “Barack” correctly
    throughout his thesis in the parts that I have read, contrary to what some posters here have written here.
    I don’t think that I am a day late or a dollar short. On the contrary, I believe that I am just in time and I earned a dollar by pointing out the fact that Adams’ thesis title page spells “Barack” correctly., because I don’t see anyone else here pointing out that fact.
    I

  22. avatar
    Joey August 22, 2011 at 1:40 pm #

    Having now perused the thesis, I’m a little bit less embarrassed for Western Kentucky. This is a work of “creative non-fiction” as it states in the thesis. It is not meant to be taken as serious graduate level research.
    There is actually a section of the thesis called the “F-ing Big Ass Lie!”

    It’s a creative writing project. If it were to be published and enough birthers bought it and read it, it could be successful as an example of “creative non-fiction.”

  23. avatar
    Joey August 22, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    john mirse:
    Daniel wrote: Once again John Mirse is a day late and a dollar short lol
    *******
    I don’t know what you mean, but it looks like Adams spelled “Barack” correctly
    throughout his thesis in the parts that I have read, contrary to what some posters herehave written here.
    I don’t think that I am a day late ora dollar short.On the contrary, I believe that I am just in timeand I earned a dollarby pointing out the factthat Adams’ thesistitle page spells “Barack” correctly., because I don’t see anyone elsehere pointing out that fact.
    I

    I just looked for a second time and the name is spelled “Barak” on the initial title page and “Barack” on a subsequent title page. If the thesis was a book, the name would be wrong on the cover but right on page one.
    If you just click on the “master’s thesis” link to the pdf that Doc C posted above, you will see “Barak” in the title and “Barak” again under “Recommended Citation” on the title page.

  24. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 2:12 pm #

    Joey: I just looked for a second time and the name is spelled “Barak” on the initial title page and “Barack” on a subsequent title page. If the thesis was a book, the name would be wrong on the cover but right on page one.
    If you just click on the “master’s thesis” link to the pdf that Doc C posted above, you will see “Barak” in the title and “Barak” again under “Recommended Citation” on the title page.

    Birthers aren’t known for being terribly bright or observant.

    Obtuse is a much better descriptive term.

  25. avatar
    jayHG August 22, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    MW, you won’t hear any more from John Mirse……he’s goes REAL CRAZY when he posts over at free republic…….

  26. avatar
    GeorgetownJD August 22, 2011 at 2:28 pm #

    Either Western Kentucky University has ridiculous low standards or Tim Adams has no clue what constitutes scholarly research and writing.

    If this “thesis” earns him an M.A. then my 11-year-old nieces should apply for the Doctoral program there. Their sixth grade paper on Animorphs was better wriiten.

  27. avatar
    Joey August 22, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    Majority Will: Birthers aren’t known for being terribly bright or observant.

    Obtuse is a much better descriptive term.

    “There are none so blind as those who will not see.” (or read).

  28. avatar
    Daniel August 22, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

    Joey: I just looked for a second time and the name is spelled “Barak” on the initial title page

    Look a third time John, and a fourth, and a fifth; In fact, just keep on looking until you see what was blatantly obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together.

    And no, we don’t expect you to admit your error. That would require a measure of honesty, which is a quality birthers don’t have.

  29. avatar
    Daniel August 22, 2011 at 2:43 pm #

    Wasn’t clear that I was quoting Joey in order to educate John. Realized too late it looked like I was directing the comment at Joey. Sorry for the confusion.

  30. avatar
    Joey August 22, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

    Daniel:
    Wasn’t clear that I was quoting Joey in order to educate John. Realized too late it looked like I was directing the comment at Joey. Sorry for the confusion.

    No problem! I’m sure John is busy checking it out again and again!

  31. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

    jayHG:
    MW, you won’t hear any more from John Mirse……he’s goes REAL CRAZY when he posts over at free republic…….

    I’ve seen a few of his posts.

    Like some birthers, “mirse” is quite clearly a xenophobic and Islamophobic bigot.

  32. avatar
    SluggoJD August 22, 2011 at 3:12 pm #

    john mirse:
    Daniel wrote: Once again John Mirse is a day late and a dollar short lol
    *******
    I don’t know what you mean, but it looks like Adams spelled “Barack” correctly
    throughout his thesis in the parts that I have read, contrary to what some posters herehave written here.
    I don’t think that I am a day late ora dollar short.On the contrary, I believe that I am just in timeand I earned a dollarby pointing out the factthat Adams’ thesistitle page spells “Barack” correctly., because I don’t see anyone elsehere pointing out that fact.
    I

    Well give the guy a doctorate, for spelling a word correctly!!!

  33. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 3:22 pm #

    john mirse:
    Daniel wrote: Once again John Mirse is a day late and a dollar short lol
    *******
    I don’t know what you mean, but it looks like Adams spelled “Barack” correctly
    throughout his thesis in the parts that I have read, contrary to what some posters herehave written here.
    I don’t think that I am a day late ora dollar short.On the contrary, I believe that I am just in timeand I earned a dollarby pointing out the factthat Adams’ thesistitle page spells “Barack” correctly., because I don’t see anyone elsehere pointing out that fact.
    I

    “I don’t like Obama. I believe he is a liar and a fraud.
    Connecticut Social Security number issue: Although I don’t like Obama, I wonder why the first 3 digits of former President Eisenhower’s Social Security number refer to California, when Eisenhower was living in Pennsylvania when he applied to Social Security in 1962?

    Recently, I accidentally ran across Pro-Obama messages on the internet that point to Eisenhower’s Social Security number mix-up as proof that the Social Security administration may have also made a simple mistake when it assigned Hawaii resident teenager Obama a Connecticut number in the 1970s, when Hawaii resident teenager Obama should have received a Hawaii number back in the 1970s.

    I’m confused.

    Could someone help me? Thanks.”

    11 posted on August 15, 2011 5:08:04 PM EDT by john mirse

    So, your irrefutable source for facts and the truth are anonymous birthers with links to other anonymous birther blogs on the freerepublic.com website?

    Does that help you sleep at night while you mumble, “any . . . day . . . now”?

    Birthers have such stellar research and reading comprehension skills. No wonder they are so successful convincing sane people and winning in the courts . . . oh, wait.

  34. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 3:54 pm #

    Joey wrote: “I just looked for a second time and the name is spelled “Barak” on the initial title page and “Barack” on a subsequent title page. If the thesis was a book, the name would be wrong on the cover but right on page one.
    If you just click on the “master’s thesis” link to the pdf that Doc C posted above, you will see “Barak” in the title and “Barak” again under “Recommended Citation” on the title page.
    ******
    Joey, did you see “Barack” misspelled anywhere in the body of the thesis? In the few parts that I read, I didn’t see the word “Barak” at all.

    Are you saying that the thesis has TWO initial title pages? I never heard of a thesis having TWO initial title pages.

    “Recommended citation”: Is that part of Adams original thesis, or is that something someone added at the site where Adams thesis is displayed?

    That is, are you saying that if I had Adams thesis in my hand right now that the first page I would see would have the phrase “Recommended citation” on it and also have the misspelled on “Barak” on it?

    Why Adams would type “Barak” on an initial page and then turn around and type “Barack” correctly on the very next “initial” page makes no sense.
    At least three advisors signed the thesis, so if there was a misspelling on the first page but a correct spelling on the second page and throughout the rest of the thesis, then I would think that one of them would have caught the mistake.

    Don’t you think that many people besides Adams spell checked the thesis, especially the initial page, before it went to the thesis advisor and the printer? I would think so.
    Don’t you think that Adams used his computer spell checker to make sure that he spelled “Barack” correctly, and that is why “Barack” seems to be spelled correctly in the body of the thesis?
    Besides, Isn’t it more important that “Barack” be spelled correctly in the main body of the thesis than if it is misspelled on the cover page? One can easily re-type a cover page and fix the mistake, but it would be more difficult to go through the entire thesis trying to look for every “Barak” error and fixing it.

    NOTE: Could you please link me to the site where you saw TWO title pages? Are you sure that the “initial” title page where you saw the word “Barak” was part of Adams’ original thesis title page? Thanks.

  35. avatar
    Joey August 22, 2011 at 3:58 pm #

    I already said just click on the link provided by Doc C. in the article that we are all commenting on. Just scroll up to the top of this page and click on the words “master’s thesis.”

    Also, as I already said, does a book have a cover page and a title page? So do theses and dissertations.

  36. avatar
    richCares August 22, 2011 at 4:15 pm #

    “I already said just click on the link provided by Doc C. in the article that we are all commenting on. Just scroll up to the top of this page and click on the words “master’s thesis.”
    .
    birhers have reading comprehension problems so here is direct link for mirse
    http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2074&context=theses
    .
    it has “Barak” on the first page, , it is the original PDF file from his thesis (anti-thesis), from wku

  37. avatar
    Joey August 22, 2011 at 4:20 pm #

    richCares:
    “I already said just click on the link provided by Doc C. in the article that we are all commenting on. Just scroll up to the top of this page and click on the words “master’s thesis.”
    .
    birhers have reading comprehension problems so here is direct link for mirse
    http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2074&context=theses
    .
    it has “Barak” on the first page, , it is the original PDF file from his thesis (anti-thesis), from wku

    Mr. Mirse seems to have never heard of a cover page and a title page.
    It is certainly possible that the cover page misspelling is a typographical error but shouldn’t Mr. Adams have caught that and corrected it by now? i’ve seen theses and dissertations rejected for a misplaced comma in 200 pages of work and have to be reprinted.

  38. avatar
    richCares August 22, 2011 at 4:25 pm #

    Doc, I enjoyed your comment to WND, it was spot on!
    Farah & Corsi must be proud to be known as producing a site catering to birthers, kooks and the ignorant, to all else it is a laughing site (a joke). What a way to be remembered.

  39. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 4:30 pm #

    Joey wrote: I already said just click on the link provided by Doc C. in the article that we are all commenting on. Just scroll up to the top of this page and click on the words “master’s thesis.”

    Also, as I already said, does a book have a cover page and a title page? So do theses and dissertations.
    *********
    Joey, when I click on the site referred to by Dr. C, the first page I see is a page from TopScholar, where the misspelled word “BARAK” is typed.

    Problem: TopScholar is part of Western Kentucky University. It has nothing to with Adams’ thesis. And Adams thesis has nothing to do with TopSCHOLAR.
    The first letter we see at the site referred to by Dr. C site is only a cover letter from TopSCHOLAR introducing Adams thesis. It has nothing to do with Adams thesis itself. That is, It was the people at TopSCHOLAR who misspelled “BARAK”. It wasn’t Adams, because as you can see, after the TopScholar introductory letter, Adams’ thesis comes up, and its initial page has “Barack” spelled correctly.
    NOTE: “Recommended citation”: Why would Adams thesis have a citation to itself. Makes no sense.

    From Western Kentucky University site about TopSCHOLAR:

    TopSCHOLAR® is a University-wide, centralized digital repository dedicated to scholarly research, creative activity and other full-text learning resources that merit enduring and archival value and permanent access. WKU faculty, staff, and faculty-sponsored students are encouraged to publish in TopSCHOLAR®. Initial funding was provided by the Dean of Libraries and the Provost’s Initiatives for Excellence in 2007-08; continued support for this university service is provided by the Department of Library Technical Services.

    If you are interested in participating, email topscholar@wku.edu or call Connie Foster at (270) 745-6151 (connie.foster@wku.edu), Amy Slowik at (270) 745-6122 (amy.slowik@wku.edu), Rosemary Meszaros at (270) 745-6441 (rosemary.meszaros@wku.edu) and Haiwang Yuan at (270) 745-5084 (haiwang.yuan@wku.edu).

    For information regarding specific journals and peer-reviewed series please contact the editors on those pages.

  40. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

    Joey: Mr. Mirse seems to have never heard of a cover page and a title page.
    It is certainly possible that the cover page misspelling is a typographical error but shouldn’t Mr. Adams have caught that and corrected it by now?i’ve seen theses and dissertations rejected for a misplaced comma in 200 pages of work and have to be reprinted.

    Immersed in stupidity and floundering in myopia and bigotry, mirse also thinks a computer spell check program has “Barack” as a standard dictionary word.

  41. avatar
    Judge Mental August 22, 2011 at 4:35 pm #

    John Mirse…..whatever the other arguments the spellchecker angle doesn’t fly. No spellchecker system can identify whether the arabic name Barak or Barack is the correct spelling.

  42. avatar
    Judge Mental August 22, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    Snap!

  43. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 4:37 pm #

    john mirse:
    Joey wrote: I already said just click on the link provided by Doc C. in the article that we are all commenting on. Just scroll up to the top of this page and click on the words “master’s thesis.”

    Also, as I already said, does a book have a cover page and a title page? So do theses and dissertations.
    *********
    Joey, when I click on the site referred to by Dr. C, the first page I see is a page from TopScholar, where themisspelled word “BARAK” is typed.

    Problem: TopScholar is part of Western Kentucky University. It has nothing to withAdams’ thesis.And Adams thesishas nothing to do with TopSCHOLAR.The first letter we see at the site referred to byDr. C site is only a cover letter from TopSCHOLARintroducing Adams thesis. It has nothing to do with Adams thesis itself. That is,It was the people at TopSCHOLAR who misspelled “BARAK”. It wasn’t Adams, because as you can see, after the TopScholar introductory letter, Adams’ thesis comes up, and its initial page has “Barack” spelled correctly.
    NOTE: “Recommended citation”:Why would Adams thesis have a citation to itself. Makes no sense.

    From Western Kentucky University site about TopSCHOLAR:

    TopSCHOLAR® is a University-wide, centralized digital repository dedicated to scholarly research, creative activity and other full-text learning resources that merit enduring and archival value and permanent access. WKU faculty, staff, and faculty-sponsored students are encouraged to publish in TopSCHOLAR®. Initial funding was provided by the Dean of Libraries and the Provost’s Initiatives for Excellence in 2007-08; continued support for this university service is provided by the Department of Library Technical Services.

    If you are interested in participating, email topscholar@wku.edu or call Connie Foster at (270) 745-6151 (connie.foster@wku.edu), Amy Slowik at (270) 745-6122 (amy.slowik@wku.edu), Rosemary Meszaros at (270) 745-6441 (rosemary.meszaros@wku.edu) and Haiwang Yuan at (270) 745-5084 (haiwang.yuan@wku.edu).

    For information regarding specific journals and peer-reviewed series please contact the editors on those pages.

    Are you saying typographical errors are a common human error made when someone submits a document to another for data entry and could even occur when entering a Social Security number from a government form?

    That it is ACTUALLY POSSIBLE it wasn’t the nefarious intent of the submitter?

    But that would make too much sense for a birther.

  44. avatar
    Joey August 22, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    john mirse:
    Joey wrote: I already said just click on the link provided by Doc C. in the article that we are all commenting on. Just scroll up to the top of this page and click on the words “master’s thesis.”

    Also, as I already said, does a book have a cover page and a title page? So do theses and dissertations.
    *********
    Joey, when I click on the site referred to by Dr. C, the first page I see is a page from TopScholar, where themisspelled word “BARAK” is typed.

    Problem: TopScholar is part of Western Kentucky University. It has nothing to withAdams’ thesis.And Adams thesishas nothing to do with TopSCHOLAR.The first letter we see at the site referred to byDr. C site is only a cover letter from TopSCHOLARintroducing Adams thesis. It has nothing to do with Adams thesis itself. That is,It was the people at TopSCHOLAR who misspelled “BARAK”. It wasn’t Adams, because as you can see, after the TopScholar introductory letter, Adams’ thesis comes up, and its initial page has “Barack” spelled correctly.
    NOTE: “Recommended citation”:Why would Adams thesis have a citation to itself. Makes no sense.

    From Western Kentucky University site about TopSCHOLAR:

    TopSCHOLAR® is a University-wide, centralized digital repository dedicated to scholarly research, creative activity and other full-text learning resources that merit enduring and archival value and permanent access. WKU faculty, staff, and faculty-sponsored students are encouraged to publish in TopSCHOLAR®. Initial funding was provided by the Dean of Libraries and the Provost’s Initiatives for Excellence in 2007-08; continued support for this university service is provided by the Department of Library Technical Services.

    If you are interested in participating, email topscholar@wku.edu or call Connie Foster at (270) 745-6151 (connie.foster@wku.edu), Amy Slowik at (270) 745-6122 (amy.slowik@wku.edu), Rosemary Meszaros at (270) 745-6441 (rosemary.meszaros@wku.edu) and Haiwang Yuan at (270) 745-5084 (haiwang.yuan@wku.edu).

    For information regarding specific journals and peer-reviewed series please contact the editors on those pages.

    Anyone wanting to read Timothy Adams’ thesis online is going to first see the spelling “Barak” when they encounter the pdf file, just as we all did. If I were Timothy Adams, I would get Top Scholar to correct the misspelling.

  45. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

    RichCares wrote:” birhers have reading comprehension problems so here is direct link for mirse…”
    *******
    RichCares, The site you referred to me is the Western Kentucky University site named
    TopSCHOLAR. It has nothing to do with the Adams thesis.
    It was the people at TopSCHOLAR who misspelled “Barak” in its introductory letter concerning Adams’ thesis. Adams had nothing to do with it.

    Below are some quotes at the bottom of the TopSCHOLAR site you referred me to. I had already visited the site before I read your message:

    Recommended Citation
    Adams, Timothy Lee, “Discourse and Conflict: The President Barak H. Obama Birth Certificate Controversy and the New Media”

    (2011). Masters Theses & Specialist Projects. Paper 1071.
    http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/theses/1071

    This Thesis is brought to you for free and open access by TopSCHOLAR®. It has been accepted for inclusion in Masters Theses & Specialist Projects
    by an authorized administrator of TopSCHOLAR®. For more information, please contact connie.foster@wku.edu.

    NOTE: It says for more information, contact connie.foster@wku.edu. It doesn’t say contact Adams if you want to know more about the thesis.

  46. avatar
    Joey August 22, 2011 at 4:55 pm #

    I have now made it through the entire thesis. Here’s my favorite part of what Timothy Adams thinks passes for graduate level academic scholarhsip:

    “Once again, I’m sure some of you, dear reader, will demand of me, “Where’s your
    proof?!” My proof is in the same vein as the Fucking Big Ass Lie, or the Media Shell
    Game. It’s called:
    The One-Sided Win
    The one sided win is how government continues to gnaw its way deeper into your
    life with every passing year, rather like a maggot on a corpse, determined to get in deep
    to find the good stuff. And much like maggots, most folks would agree these government
    types breathe out their ass, are harder than hell to kill, and breed like flies once they find
    a free meal ticket. The original one-sided win was the plight of the Native Americans.
    Ask the Native American peoples about the one-sided win and then settle down, you have
    a long evening ahead of you.
    The one-sided win works like this:
    “We, the elites who know better than all of you, want THIS!”
    “We don’t want it!” (and WE vote it down)
    “WE the ELITES, who know better than all of YOU, WANT THIS!”
    “We don’t want it!” (and WE vote it down, again)
    “WE THE ELITES, WHO KNOW BETTER THAN ALL OF YOU, WANT
    THIS!”
    Suddenly, whatever “IT” is, it’s automatically brought into being, whether WE wanted it
    or not.
    BUT THE REVERSE NEVER HAPPENS
    In other words, nothing that’s forced through ever gets overturned, the power progression
    never backs up towards the starting point from whence it came.”

    It goes on and on with more personal opinion and “dear diary” level whining. But you get the point!
    I will give Adams credit, however for admitting that he has no proof.

  47. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 5:03 pm #

    john mirse: It was the people at TopSCHOLAR who misspelled “Barak” in its introductory letter concerning Adams’ thesis. Adams had nothing to do with it.

    Is that like the SSA mistaking the Hawaiian zip code of 96814 with the Danbury,
    Connecticut zip code of 06814?

    Do you need to check with your anonymous birther experts at freerepublic.com first?

  48. avatar
    Judge Mental August 22, 2011 at 5:07 pm #

    As a Scotsman I’m more concerned at his mispelling of Edinburgh (Edinburg). Sacrilege!

  49. avatar
    richCares August 22, 2011 at 5:18 pm #

    the title page of that TopScholer page is mispelled, whether Tim did it, or you did it or the tooth fairy did it, it is mispelled, what should Tim do about it? Should he spout “I didn’t to it” as you seem to do or should he initiate a correction? As long as he does nothing about it, it is his error. Is this the way of the birther mind?

  50. avatar
    Wile E. August 22, 2011 at 5:42 pm #

    Oy…

    http://www.yourdictionary.com/library/misspelled.html

  51. avatar
    Daniel August 22, 2011 at 5:44 pm #

    Daniel: And no, we don’t expect you to admit your error. That would require a measure of honesty, which is a quality birthers don’t have.

    Wow, did I call that one or what…

  52. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 5:47 pm #

    Majority Will wrote: “So, your irrefutable source for facts and the truth are anonymous birthers with links to other anonymous birther blogs on the freerepublic.com website?”
    *******
    I don’t understand your statement above, that is, where do I refer to anonymous birthers?

  53. avatar
    gorefan August 22, 2011 at 6:10 pm #

    Majority Will: Is that like the SSA mistaking the Hawaiian zip code of 96814 with the Danbury,
    Connecticut zip code of 06814?

    Interesting thing about the zip codes. The SSA wouldn’t even care about the last two digits of the zip code since it is the first three digits that determine the state. So Connecticut is 068nn and Hawaii is 968nn. Just like in this IRS document.

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/zip_code_and_state_abbreviations.pdf

  54. avatar
    misha August 22, 2011 at 6:16 pm #

    john mirse: I don’t understand your statement above, that is, where do I refer to anonymous birthers?

    What I don’t understand is why you don’t vigorously demand an investigation of Glenn Beck’s possible rape and murder in 1990.

    Also, does George Bush hear voices? It sure seems like he does. God told me to invade Iraq.

  55. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 6:18 pm #

    RichCares wrote: “the title page of that TopScholer page is mispelled, whether Tim did it, or you did it or the tooth fairy did it, it is mispelled, what should Tim do about it? Should he spout “I didn’t to it” as you seem to do or should he initiate a correction? As long as he does nothing about it, it is his error. Is this the way of the birther mind?”
    *******
    Thank you, because you now admit that the misspelled word “Barak” is NOT part of Adams thesis because it is part of the TopSCHOLAR page.

    And it defies logic and belief if a person says that if Adams never corrects the misspelled “BARAK” word at the Western Kentucky University TopSCHOLAR site, he somehow discredits his original thesis for this reason: An issue with the TopSCHOLAR site is one thing, while questions about Adams’ thesis is another.
    And obviously Adams’ thesis was posted at TopSCHOLAR AFTER it was written, so how could a person point to a typing mistake by TopSCHOLAR to try to discredit Adams’ thesis? Makes no sense.

  56. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 6:26 pm #

    misha wrote: What I don’t understand is why you don’t vigorously demand an investigation of Glenn Beck’s possible rape and murder in 1990.

    Also, does George Bush hear voices? It sure seems like he does. God told me to invade Iraq.
    ********
    Misha: I did some research on the web about Beck and the rape charge.

    Did you know it was a hoax, a satire, a joke, a parody when it first appeared back
    in 2009? Do some research yourself, and you will see that it was a hoax, a parody, and a joke.
    It wasn’t true at all, and the person who first wrote about the “rape” admitted that it was a parody and a big joke.
    Beck took the person to court, but the person won, I believe, on the right of free speech, because the court considered it a parody and a big joke protected by free speech.

  57. avatar
    Joey August 22, 2011 at 6:30 pm #

    If you published a book and the publisher (or you) misspelled a word that appeared on the cover and that misspelled word made you look like an idiot and cost you crediblity, would you demand a correction?
    You are assuming that the error is TopSCHOLAR’s. None of us know that. They may have taken Tim Adams’ submission and scanned it, as is.
    It’s most likely a typo but it makes ADAMS, not TopSCHOLAR look dumb.

  58. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    Majority Will wrote: Is that like the SSA mistaking the Hawaiian zip code of 96814 with the Danbury,
    Connecticut zip code of 06814?

    Do you need to check with your anonymous birther experts at freerepublic.com first?
    *******
    Where did you get the Hawaii zip code for Obama as 96814?

    I thought Obama’s Hawaii address at 1617 Beretania St., Honolulu, Hawaii had the zip code of 96826?

  59. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    Joey wrote: You are assuming that the error is TopSCHOLAR’s. None of us know that. They may have taken Tim Adams’ submission and scanned it, as is.
    It’s most likely a typo but it makes ADAMS, not TopSCHOLAR look dumb.
    *******
    Let me see, the Western Kentucky University TopSCHOLAR site scanned Adams’ thesis and made an honest mistake, but it makes Adams look dumb?

    I have nothing to say. Unbelievable. Right. We surely can’t blame Western University’s TopScholar site for an honest mistake.

  60. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 6:57 pm #

    john mirse:
    Majority Will wrote: Is that like the SSA mistaking the Hawaiian zip code of 96814 with the Danbury,
    Connecticut zip code of 06814?

    Do you need to check with your anonymous birther experts at freerepublic.com first?
    *******
    Where did you get the Hawaii zip code for Obama as 96814?

    I thought Obama’s Hawaii address at1617 Beretania St., Honolulu, Hawaii had the zip code of 96826?

    The simplest of research.

    Where do you get the temerity to accuse Dr. Fukino of malfeasance without any evidence whatsoever?

    You do know all of your posts are permanent, right?

  61. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

    john mirse:
    Majority Will wrote: Is that like the SSA mistaking the Hawaiian zip code of 96814 with the Danbury,
    Connecticut zip code of 06814?

    Do you need to check with your anonymous birther experts at freerepublic.com first?
    *******
    Where did you get the Hawaii zip code for Obama as 96814?

    I thought Obama’s Hawaii address at1617 Beretania St., Honolulu, Hawaii had the zip code of 96826?

    From what I’ve seen you don’t think much at all. At least not for yourself.

    You decided the President is a fraud and a liar and you despise him. Then, you went looking for anything and everything to support your suspicions regardless of the source. logic or common sense.

    That is not considered rational.

  62. avatar
    Wile E. August 22, 2011 at 7:20 pm #

    john mirse:
    Misha: I did some research on the web about Beck and the rape charge.

    Did you know it was a hoax, a satire, a joke, a parody when it first appeared back
    in 2009?Do some research yourself, and you will see that it was a hoax, a parody, and a joke.It wasn’t true at all

    Have you ever considered being as diligent in your debunking of claims that you *want* to believe in?

    It’s difficult for everyone, but it’s still a character flaw for those who don’t even try.

  63. avatar
    richCares August 22, 2011 at 8:01 pm #

    “typing mistake by TopSCHOLAR to try to discredit Adams’ thesis”
    .
    it seems we are talking over mirse’s head
    Adams thesis has been descredited by it’s content and by liar Adams
    the misspelled name is just funny, that’s all.
    .
    wku has been sent the address of this blog on Tim, they may weigh in

  64. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    Majority will wrote: I thought Obama’s Hawaii address at1617 Beretania St., Honolulu, Hawaii had the zip code of 96826?

    The simplest of research.
    ********
    You better do some more research, because zip code 96826 is what is on Obama’s Selective Service form on the internet, and zip code 96826 is what you get when you do a search of Obama’s Honolulu address of 1617 S. Beretania St. at zip code sites on the internet
    It looks, according to one zip code site I looked at, that the address is an apartment building, because apartments are listed.

    Connecticut zip code 06826 does not exist?

    Hawaii zip code 96826 vs. Connecticut 06826: According to several internet zip code finder sites, Connecticut zip code 06826 does not exist.

    I could be mistaken, but you could check it out for yourself: Connecticut zip code 06826 is invalid, according to zip code sites on the internet.

    So, if Obama’s Social Security number was sent to Connecticut zip code 06826 instead of to Hawaii 96826, then there would be a problem, because 06826 doesn’t exist, and if it doesn’t exist today, then it probably didn’t exist back in the 1970s, nearly 40 years ago.

  65. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 8:19 pm #

    Wile E wrote: Have you ever considered being as diligent in your debunking of claims that you *want* to believe in?

    It’s difficult for everyone, but it’s still a character flaw for those who don’t even try.
    *******
    At least I did a little research before claiming on the internet that Beck “raped” someone in 1990, when a little research would tell Beck’s accuser that the 2009 “rape” was satire, a parody, a joke and NOT real at all.

    what a terrible joke to pull on anyone, especially a famous person like Beck.

  66. avatar
    Laura August 22, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

    John,

    Who said anything about they send it to Connecticut, it was send to Hawaii, the first 3 # is what matters not the last two.

    As far as Beck, I don’t listen to him, and don’t care how famous you think he is, I think he’s done a great job of making a idiot out of hisself

  67. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 8:46 pm #

    john mirse:
    Majority will wrote:I thought Obama’s Hawaii address at1617 Beretania St., Honolulu, Hawaii had the zip code of 96826?

    The simplest of research.
    ********
    You better do some more research, because zip code 96826 is what is on Obama’s Selective Service form on the internet, and zip code 96826 is what you get when you do a searchof Obama’sHonolulu address of 1617 S. Beretania St. at zip code sites on the internet
    It looks, according to onezip code site I looked at, that the address is an apartment building, becauseapartments are listed.

    Connecticut zip code 06826 does not exist?

    Hawaii zip code 96826 vs. Connecticut 06826:According to severalinternet zip code finder sites, Connecticut zip code 06826 does not exist.

    I could be mistaken, but you could check it out for yourself: Connecticut zip code 06826 is invalid, according to zip code sites on the internet.

    So, if Obama’s Social Security number was sent to Connecticut zip code 06826 instead of toHawaii 96826, then there would be a problem,because 06826 doesn’t exist, and if it doesn’t exist today, then itprobably didn’t exist back in the 1970s, nearly 40 years ago.

    Zip codes never change?

    “I could be mistaken”

    That’s an understatement. And your research skills suck.

  68. avatar
    Northland10 August 22, 2011 at 9:07 pm #

    In exploring the abstract and Introduction, I think what is being missed by WND, ConWeb and various commentors, is that the subject is of the thesis is not Obama. Tim Adams uses his involvement in the “controversy” as a vehicle for the discussion into narrative and speech in what he calls the “New Media.” I do wish he was clearer in his hypothesis as, though he leads up to it, the reader does not leave with a sure sense of what Mr. Adams is attempting to prove. I would hope, as I have time to read on, I may find this, I think a thesis should be more explicit (as he was with some of his methods) in the introduction.

    As his committee appears to have singed off on this, i can only assume that he was successful in his defense. As I was never an English student, I am unable to determine what criteria his committee may be looking for. As he mentioned, creative non-fiction, that may be a large component. It may also explain the rather short bibliography. Personally, I think for a graduate level, more attention research skills and use would be more appropriate.

    In honesty, at a first glance, I do wonder how this got through, as there are things he did that I fondly remember my readers would not have approved (that first draft discussion left me quite bloodied.).

    What is important to remember, despite the spin others want to put on it, this is not a paper about Obama eligibility and was not accepted as such.

  69. avatar
    gorefan August 22, 2011 at 9:08 pm #

    john mirse: You better do some more research, because zip code 96826 is what is on Obama’s Selective Service form on the internet,

    And you better do some more research – Anne Dunhams June, 1976 passport renewal lists the mailing address as 1617 Beretania, 96814. the cahnge took place between then. Yes zip codes can change. As more adresses are added to an area, the Postal Service overlays new zip codes.

  70. avatar
    Northland10 August 22, 2011 at 9:09 pm #

    Majority Will: Zip codes never change?

    The zip code of the house I grew up in changed once when I lived there. It has changed again since then.

  71. avatar
    Joey August 22, 2011 at 9:12 pm #

    john mirse:
    Joey wrote: You are assuming that the error is TopSCHOLAR’s. None of us know that. They may have taken Tim Adams’ submission and scanned it, as is.
    It’s most likely a typo but it makes ADAMS, not TopSCHOLAR look dumb.
    *******
    Let me see, the Western Kentucky UniversityTopSCHOLAR site scanned Adams’ thesis and made an honestmistake, but it makes Adams look dumb?

    I have nothing to say.Unbelievable.Right. We surely can’t blameWestern University’s TopScholar site for an honest mistake.

    I can blame either WKU or Tim Adams for a mistake, honest or not and I can blame Tim Adams for not arranging for a correction of that mistake and allowing something with his name on it to be put on the internet that makes HIM look dumb. If the name “Barak” (sic) was misspelled once on the title page, no harm, no foul; but twice?

  72. avatar
    gorefan August 22, 2011 at 9:13 pm #

    john mirse: So, if Obama’s Social Security number was sent to Connecticut zip code 06826 instead of to Hawaii 96826, then there would be a problem, because 06826 doesn’t exist,

    So you think that if the Postal Service got a letter addressed as follows:

    Barack Obama
    1617 Beretania St.
    Honolulu, Hawaii 06826

    They woould not be able to figure out where to send it. Blahahahahahahah

  73. avatar
    Northland10 August 22, 2011 at 9:15 pm #

    gorefan: Anne Dunhams June, 1976 passport renewal lists the mailing address as 1617 Beretania, 96814

    06814 is Danbury, CT., which would have been within the 3 digit geographic code area. I have not followed this close and tried to avoid speculation, but the similarity is difficult to avoid.

  74. avatar
    gorefan August 22, 2011 at 9:36 pm #

    Northland10: I have not followed this close and tried to avoid speculation, but the similarity is difficult to avoid.

    I posted this above, you find it interesting:

    Interesting thing about the zip codes. The SSA wouldn’t even care about the last two digits of the zip code since it is the first three digits that determine the state. So Connecticut is 068nn and Hawaii is 968nn. Just like in this IRS document.

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/zip_code_and_state_abbreviations.pdf

  75. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 9:38 pm #

    Zip codes never change?

    “I could be mistaken”

    That’s an understatement. And your research skills suck.
    ********
    Apparently my research skills are better than yours if you believe that Obama’s Hawaii zip code in the 1970s was different than it is today.

    How could it change, since the zip code on Obama’s Selective Service form that Obama supposedly filled out in the 1970s is the same as it is today for the same address?

  76. avatar
    richCares August 22, 2011 at 10:01 pm #

    silly john mirse says “Apparently my research skills are better than yours…”
    whatever!

  77. avatar
    gorefan August 22, 2011 at 10:05 pm #

    john mirse: Apparently my research skills are better than yours if you believe that Obama’s Hawaii zip code in the 1970s was different than it is today.

    Your research skills are very limited.

    Anne Dunham’s passport renewal from June, 1976 shows a zip code of 96814

  78. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 10:13 pm #

    gorefan: Your research skills are very limited.

    Anne Dunham’s passport renewal from June, 1976 shows a zip code of 96814

    Yep.

    It must suck for a few pathetic, close minded fear mongers to go through life as delusional, hate filled birther bigots without a clue.

  79. avatar
    gorefan August 22, 2011 at 10:16 pm #

    Majority Will: It must suck for a few pathetic, close minded fear mongers to go through life as delusional, hate filled birther bigots without a clue.

    I like how sven/john mirse ignores facts that don’t fit his preconceived ideas. This is why the birthers will always fail.

  80. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 10:44 pm #

    gorefan: I like how sven/john mirse ignores facts that don’t fit his preconceived ideas.This is why the birthers will always fail.

    And birthers swim in birther cesspools like freerepublic.com and then aren’t bright enough to figure out why they’re covered in crap.

  81. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 22, 2011 at 10:52 pm #

    I agree. The misspelling doesn’t seem to be part of the thesis, but a label added by the publishing web site.

    john mirse: I believe that I am just in time and I earned a dollar by pointing out the fact that Adams’ thesis title page spells “Barack” correctly., because I don’t see anyone else here pointing out that fact.

  82. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 22, 2011 at 10:58 pm #

    I’m sure the contribution would have been electronic rather than scanned, not that this informs us about the Title and citation source.

    Joey: You are assuming that the error is TopSCHOLAR’s. None of us know that. They may have taken Tim Adams’ submission and scanned it, as is.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 22, 2011 at 11:00 pm #

    Brilliant!

    gorefan: Anne Dunham’s passport renewal from June, 1976 shows a zip code of 96814

  84. avatar
    Majority Will August 22, 2011 at 11:09 pm #

    gorefan: I like how sven/john mirse ignores facts that don’t fit his preconceived ideas.This is why the birthers will always fail.

    And that creaking noise will be the sound of a birther predictably moving the goalposts. It’s that painful dissonance once again.

  85. avatar
    john mirse August 22, 2011 at 11:10 pm #

    Gorefan wrote: And you better do some more research – Anne Dunhams June, 1976 passport renewal lists the mailing address as 1617 Beretania, 96814. the cahnge took place between then. Yes zip codes can change. As more adresses are added to an area, the Postal Service overlays new zip codes.
    *********
    What does Obama’s mother’s 1976 passport application have to do with President Obama’s Social Security application in the 1970s?

    The last time I looked, the State Department passport division is an entirely different federal agency than the Social Security Administration. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

    How come Obama’s 1970s Selective Service application zip code of 96826 looks just like the zip code for the same address today, if sometime between the 1970s and today, the postal service changed the zip code for 1617 S Beretania St., Honolulu, Hawaii? It obviously doesn’t look like it changed at all.

    If Obama’s mother put zip code 96814 for her Beretania address on her passport application, that is her mistake and not a mistake made by the Social Security Administration, who does not even handle passports.

    NOTE: President Obama could easily resolve a lot of questions concerning his Social Security number, where the first 3 digits refer to Connecticut instead of to Hawaii, if he would do the following;

    He could simply give the Social Security Administration permission today to release a copy of his 1970s Social Security application to the public, just like he gave Hawaii officials permission to release his long form birth certificate recently in April 2011.

    With the Social Security Administration, however, President Obama does not have to worry about Hawaii privacy laws, because the Social Security Administration is not controlled by Hawaii since it is a federal agency.

    On Obama’s 1970s Social Security application, what in the world is on it that President does not want the public to see, because a Social Security application asks only very basic questions?

    Could 1970s teenager Obama’s problem with his Social Security number be the following: : He needed a birth certificate to apply for a Social Security card in the 1970s, but he didn’t have one, so he never really filled out a Social Security application in the 1970s as he claims.

  86. avatar
    richCares August 22, 2011 at 11:16 pm #

    “Could 1970s teenager Obama’s problem with his Social Security number be the following: : He needed a birth certificate to apply for a Social Security card in the 1970s, but he didn’t have one, so he never really filled out a Social Security application in the 1970s as he claims.”
    .
    talk about delusions, wow, go find big foot will ya!

  87. avatar
    Tarrant August 22, 2011 at 11:23 pm #

    John:

    Obama is not opposing the Sooal Security Application request. He’s not even a party in the lawsuit. You see. They don’t release stuff for living people. They don’t. He hasn’t said “Don’t release my stuff”. It’s automatic. He isn’t telling them to do something. It’s THE LAW. Federal law. Passed years ago. Under different presidents. You keep acting like if the law says something cannot – cannot – be released, that somehow it’s Obama’s fault and he’s hiding it. It doesn’t work that way.

    If someone could ask for, and get, his application, they could ask for yours. Or anyone else’s. The law doesn’t say “Unless they’re a Presidential candidate”. It says “Anybody”. That is why Orly will lose her lawsuit.

  88. avatar
    gorefan August 22, 2011 at 11:32 pm #

    john mirse: What does Obama’s mother’s 1976 passport application have to do with President Obama’s Social Security application in the 1970s?

    OMG you are an idiot.

    The zip code for the Beretania address before 1980 was 96814, sometime between the the June, 1976 passport application and the 1980 Selective Service Registration, the Postal Service changed the zip code..

    It means that when the President filled out his SS-5 card for the Social Security Administration in1977, the zip code could have been 96814.

    Yikes, what a nitwit.

    How do you know that anyone has even asked him to release his ss-5 card?

  89. avatar
    richCares August 22, 2011 at 11:40 pm #

    for those of you that are not birthers, Obama has been filling tax returns for a long time without any problems, SSA has no problems with him, so all the john mirse/Orly crap is BS, no one cares. They are looking for the hidden muslim code or born in Africa or some such garbage. Stop wasting your time john, Obama is the president and he is running for re-election.
    .
    put the wrong SSN in your tax form and see what happens (I did, accidently)

  90. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett August 23, 2011 at 12:10 am #

    Tim adams, at WND, on why his thesis is so bad: “After I was told about this, I looked into it this past week. Evidently what occurred was that I use a current version of Microsoft Office, while the school is still using a 2000-2003 version,since the two programs are not backwards compatible, the thesis was stripped of editing and mangled when it was uploaded. The school then published the document as a PDF in that condition and put it on the library site. Now, I could have just as easily given them a PDF version, contemporary Microsoft programs allow you to convert any Word.doc’s to PDF automatically, but that wasn’t done here. What else wasn’t done here? Well, WKU didn’t correct their error, and WKU posted the mess online. Now, was this simply a matter of uncaring office staff, or was it a deliberate insult?”

  91. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 12:33 am #

    Dr. C wrote: Brilliant!

    gorefan: Anne Dunham’s passport renewal from June, 1976 shows a zip code of 96814
    *******
    Obama’s Selective Service application states that Obama signed it July 30, 1980. and he wrote the zip code 96826.

    If anyone wants to believe that the Postal Service changed zip codes sometime between
    June 1976 and July 30, 1980, go right ahead, but unless someone has evidence that such a zip code change was made, then they have nothing.

    Gorefan: Could you show me a link where you saw Stanley Dunham’s 1976 passport renewal? I could only find one for 1972.

  92. avatar
    Keith August 23, 2011 at 12:41 am #

    J. Edward Tremlett: Now, was this simply a matter of uncaring office staff, or was it a deliberate insult?”

    Does the PDF have layers?

  93. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 12:42 am #

    Gorefan: How do you know that anyone has even asked him to release his ss-5 card?
    *********
    If no reporter has thought of asking President Obama to release his SS-5, I wish a reporter would do so tomorrow.

    It would clear up a lot of questions about Obama’s Social Security number whose first 3 digits refer to Connecticut and not Hawaii, where teenager Obama supposedly filled out his Social Security application in 1977.

  94. avatar
    dunstvangeet August 23, 2011 at 12:47 am #

    John mirse, we do have evidence of the change. You’re just ignoring it…

    Stanley Ann Dunham’s passport application in 1976 (same time as what Obama would be applying for his SSN for his job at Baskin Robbins) was 96814.

    1976, Obama would have been 14, about the same age he started his first job at Baskin Robbins.

    Obama’s Selective Service in 1980 was 96826.

    So, we have two options…

    1. Either Obama, or his mother, got the Zip Code wrong.

    2. The Zip Code changed sometimes between 1976, and 1980.

  95. avatar
    misha August 23, 2011 at 12:49 am #

    john mirse: If no reporter has thought of asking President Obama to release his SS-5, I wish a reporter would do so tomorrow.

    I wish a reporter would ask Ann Coulter if there is any truth to the rumor she had an abortion at Planned Parenthood.

  96. avatar
    richCares August 23, 2011 at 12:50 am #

    Tim Adams bull pupu “Evidently what occurred was that I use a current version of Microsoft Office, while the school is still using a 2000-2003 version, since the two programs are not backwards compatible,”
    .
    Word 2007 and Word 2010 can read Word 2003 files perfectly, I know I have 2003 on mine my wife has 2010 and my daughter has 2007, Timmy can easily save as 2003
    , also normal 2003 updates fix 2003 to read 2010 files. I just emailed a “.docx” 2010 file from my wifes laptop and opened with my 2003 perfectly, so Tim is a lying sack of puu puu, lying seems to be his MO.

  97. avatar
    US Citizen August 23, 2011 at 12:54 am #

    Doc’s letter to WND is too long for birthers to read.
    It needs to be shorter to be something they can readily understand.
    Perhaps next time a simple “You lie!”
    That’s about their speed.

  98. avatar
    gorefan August 23, 2011 at 1:00 am #

    john mirse: I could only find one for 1972.

    Wow, you really are a crappy researcher.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/35161730/Stanley-Ann-Dunham-Obama-Soetoro-Passport-Application-File-Strunk-v-Dept-of-State-FOIA-Release-FINAL-7-29-10

    Page 9 in the file, there is a notation P4 written in the upper right hand corner.

    Since you mention the 1972 renewal application (labeled P2), it also says 96814 for the Beretania address.

    Here is an explanation about zip codes:

    “An important thing to keep in mind about ZIP codes is that they change over time. In some cases these changes can be quite dramatic, but more commonly they are small and subtle. When a ZIP codes changes its definition it does not change its name like a census tract. The ZIP code that was called ’63301′ in St. Charles county, Mo in 1985 has since been broken into first two and now three ZIP codes. These new codes were not called 63301.01, 63301.02 and 63301.03; they were called 63301, 63303 and 63304. So what is referred to as 63301 today represents about a third of the area that it referred to in 1985.”

    http://www.oseda.missouri.edu/uic/ZIP.resources.html

  99. avatar
    Loren August 23, 2011 at 1:28 am #

    john mirse:
    If Obama’s mother put zip code 96814 for her Beretania address on her passport application, that is her mistake

    Why are you jumping to the conclusion that it was a mistake?

    Here is the FOIA release of her passport records.

    The 1976 filing gives her ZIP as 96814.

    The 1972 filing gives her ZIP as 96814.

    The 1971 filing not only gives her ZIP as 96814, but it’s written in red ink, ostensibly by some State Dept employee (judging by the other uses of red ink on that particular page).

    So exactly how many appearances of ‘96814’ do you need to convince you that it was the correct ZIP at the time? Is three enough?

    And in case no one else has bothered to check, both 96814 and 96826 are current Honolulu zip codes. And they are directly adjacent to one another. Even today, 1617 Beretenia is located a mere half-mile from the 96814 border.

  100. avatar
    richCares August 23, 2011 at 1:34 am #

    when working in MS Word 2010/2007 click on file-save as, you will find 15 or so options Word 97/2003 is one of the choices. A college guy working on a masters in MS Word should know this, what a poor excuse Timmy gave

  101. avatar
    dunstvangeet August 23, 2011 at 1:44 am #

    Especially when he’s transferring files between him and his advisor’s computer for review…

  102. avatar
    gorefan August 23, 2011 at 1:46 am #

    john mirse: If no reporter has thought of asking President Obama to release his SS-5, I wish a reporter would do so tomorrow.

    Reporters will never ask him about this, just as they will not ask him about the fake moon landing. Only the deluded think this is of any importance.

  103. avatar
    Keith August 23, 2011 at 1:50 am #

    john mirse:
    Gorefan: How do you know that anyone has even asked him to release his ss-5 card?
    *********
    If no reporter has thought of asking President Obama to release his SS-5, I wish a reporter would do so tomorrow.

    It would clear up a lot of questions about Obama’s Social Security number whose first 3 digits refer to Connecticut and not Hawaii, where teenager Obama supposedly filled out his Social Security application in 1977.

    No it wouldn’t.

    It is extremely unlikely that Obama has a copy of his SS5. The SSA is prevented by longstanding law from releasing it, to anybody, for any purpose (short of a court order for an active ongoing Social Security fraud court case, I suppose).

    There is no reason what-so-ever for such a release to the general public. None. Ever. Period.

    There is no provision for Obama to call up the SSA Administrator and say “Listen, can I have a copy of this thing please so I can publish it to satisfy Mr. Mirse’s questions and get his vote?

    There is no point to the existence of the document other than the internal administration of Obama’s account. It has absolutely no purpose outside of that function. It is the property of the SSA and relates to the personal account of a living person.

    Obama is not hiding his SS5. He doesn’t have any say in the manner what-so-ever.

    The SSA has no business releasing it to anyone for any purpose. Not to Obama, not to you, not to Orly, not to the Press.

    Personal records such as this are exempt from FOIA requests and such requests will be denied, whether they come from Obama, you, Orly, or the Press.

    The SSA is expressly forbidden by law to release it to anyone, and cannot by law release it to Obama, you, Orly, or the Press.

    Period.

  104. avatar
    Keith August 23, 2011 at 2:03 am #

    richCares:
    when working in MS Word 2010/2007 click on file-save as, you will find 15 or so options Word 97/2003 is one of the choices. A college guy working on a masters in MS Word should know this, what a poor excuse Timmy gave

    My wife makes a pretty good supplement to her income helping PHD students with their thesis documents. She doesn’t do typing, or editing really. She helps them figure out how to drive MS Word. Most people seem to have a really hard time keeping to their department’s formatting standards, getting page numbering to work consistently across master document, getting images to position properly, integrating EndNote references, and on and on and on and on.

    Actually, she did type up one guy’s really interesting conference speech about reconciling the different mapping systems in existence in Australia at the moment. Once again a complete different formatting approach to formatting a thesis.

    It really isn’t as simple as just saying “hey these guys are PhD students, they should know how to use MS Word. Academic departments have very strict rules about formatting thesis documents that don’t apply to other documents that they have had to prepare during their studies. As someone said earlier, a thesis can be rejected because one comma is out of place in a 400 page document.

  105. avatar
    richCares August 23, 2011 at 2:11 am #

    Keith, formatting wasn’t liar Tim’s issue, he claimed all his errors were caused by the college using word 2003 to open his word 2007/2010 file. That is BS!
    .
    as for It really isn’t as simple as just saying “hey these guys are PhD students, my 12 year old grand son uses word on the mini HP I got him.

  106. avatar
    Northland10 August 23, 2011 at 6:35 am #

    john mirse: If anyone wants to believe that the Postal Service changed zip codes sometime between
    June 1976 and July 30, 1980, go right ahead, but unless someone has evidence that such a zip code change was made, then they have nothing.

    So, it is time to admit you were wrong on this. The zip did change and proof was provided. Do not change the subject and do not point this back at the President.

    john mirse: If no reporter has thought of asking President Obama to release his SS-5, I wish a reporter would do so tomorrow.

    It would clear up a lot of questions about Obama’s Social Security number whose first 3 digits refer to Connecticut and not Hawaii, where teenager Obama supposedly filled out his Social Security application in 1977

    Just like his birth certificate that the birthers declared a fraud without looking at it? You are asking him to prove that he did not commit a crime that never happened. You may believe he is a fraud but the birthers have not proven it. The burden of proof is on the birthers and not the President.

    Yes, unlike what some think, the Constitution and our laws apply equally to all people, even President Obama (and yes, I went there).

  107. avatar
    Lupin August 23, 2011 at 6:46 am #

    Shorter john mirse: “no g*d*m n*** will ever be my president, no sir”

  108. avatar
    Black Lion August 23, 2011 at 7:19 am #

    G: Wow. Thanks for the link BL & great to hear from you again! I read that whole article at your link. What a clunker of a poorly written & sourced paper that Adams is trying to pass off as his Masters Thesis. I can’t see the paper making the grade. It would fail as a junior high essay.

    G..Thanks…It has just been so hectic…I saw the story on the Adams story and had to take time out to post….All I can say is that this so called thesis wouldn’t make it as a work of fiction…

  109. avatar
    Majority Will August 23, 2011 at 8:01 am #

    john mirse: If anyone wants to believe that the Postal Service changed zip codes sometime between
    June 1976 and July 30, 1980, go right ahead, but unless someone has evidence that such a zip code change was made, then they have nothing.

    Yo, birther bigot troll.

    You have nothing but endless, baseless speculations and you have the gall to demand someone else provide credible evidence to meet your satisfaction?

    The burden of proof in this country is on the accuser.

    Sick and pathetic birther idiots.

    You can’t handle the truth.

  110. avatar
    Majority Will August 23, 2011 at 8:06 am #

    J. Edward Tremlett:
    Tim adams, at WND, on why his thesis is so bad: “After I was told about this, I looked into it this past week. Evidently what occurred was that I use a current version of Microsoft Office, while the school is still using a 2000-2003 version,since the two programs are not backwards compatible, the thesis was stripped of editing and mangled when it was uploaded. The school then published the document as a PDF in that condition and put it on the library site. Now, I could have just as easily given them a PDF version, contemporary Microsoft programs allow you to convert any Word.doc’s to PDF automatically, but that wasn’t done here. What else wasn’t done here? Well, WKU didn’t correct their error, and WKU posted the mess online. Now, was this simply a matter of uncaring office staff, or was it a deliberate insult?”

    That’s a load of crap.

    MS Word is not going to arbitrarily change Barack to Barak. Blaming software is pitiful and a poor attempt at deflection.

    GIGO.

  111. avatar
    Majority Will August 23, 2011 at 8:11 am #

    Loren: Why are you jumping to the conclusion that it was a mistake?

    Here is the FOIA release of her passport records.

    The 1976 filing gives her ZIP as 96814.

    The 1972 filing gives her ZIP as 96814.

    The 1971 filing not only gives her ZIP as 96814, but it’s written in red ink, ostensibly by some State Dept employee (judging by the other uses of red ink on that particular page).

    So exactly how many appearances of ’96814′ do you need to convince you that it was the correct ZIP at the time?Is three enough?

    And in case no one else has bothered to check, both 96814 and 96826 are current Honolulu zip codes.And they are directly adjacent to one another.Even today, 1617 Beretenia is located a mere half-mile from the 96814 border.

    mirse has to think the Obama’s are directly to blame for everything or his little head will explode.

  112. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 23, 2011 at 10:32 am #

    Your comments about the Beck rape charge are irrelevant. If one proven false charge (Obama born in Africa) requires investigation than all others, including Becks’ rape allegation does too.

    john mirse: At least I did a little research before claiming on the internet that Beck “raped” someone in 1990, when a little research would tell Beck’s accuser that the 2009 “rape” was satire, a parody, a joke and NOT real at all.

  113. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 23, 2011 at 10:36 am #

    As a general statement, personal records are not exempt from FOIA when the requester is the person in the record, or the person in the record has authorized the request in writing for a third party. Also personal records for deceased persons are available.

    Keith: Personal records such as this are exempt from FOIA requests and such requests will be denied, whether they come from Obama, you, Orly, or the Press.

  114. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 23, 2011 at 10:42 am #

    I don’t know the work of Hunter Thompson and so I can’t say whether Adams’ paper is anything similar.

  115. avatar
    Loren August 23, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    john mirse:
    At least I did a little research before claiming on the internet that Beck “raped” someone in 1990, whena little research would tell Beck’s accuser that the 2009 “rape”was satire, a parody, a joke and NOT real at all.

    Hey now, just because it started as a joke doesn’t mean it’s “not real.” Not according to Birther logic, that is.

    Take, for instance, the claim that Obama was registered as a foreign student at Occidental. That was a friggin’ April Fool’s Joke. It’s been quite publicly known to be an April Fool’s Joke for over two years.

    And yet we continue to see Birthers speculate that Obama was registered as a foreign student at Occidental. Like in this FreeRepublic post from last month:

    “When in the world is President Obama going to release his Occidental and Columbia college records so that we can see once and for all Obama registered as a foreign student, and we find out how he paid his expenses at those two colleges?”

    What fool would still be repeating the premise of an April Fool’s Joke two years later, acting like the joke was real? Why, it’s you!

    Y’know, you should’ve done a little research before claiming on the internet that Obama registered as a foreign student, when a little research would tell you that the claim was satire, a parody, a joke and NOT real at all.

  116. avatar
    JoZeppy August 23, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    Loren: What fool would still be repeating the premise of an April Fool’s Joke two years later, acting like the joke was real? Why, it’s you!

    Ouch! I can feel the burn of that one all the way though my computer.

  117. avatar
    Joey August 23, 2011 at 12:32 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    As a general statement, personal records are not exempt from FOIA when the requester is the person in the record, or the person in the record has authorized the request in writing for a third party. Also personal records for deceased persons are available.

    Can a person file a federal income tax return and have it accepted by the IRS if there is more than one Social Security number associated with their name? Barack Obama’s federal income tax returns are avaiable to read online (with SS #s redacted) for every year from 2000 to 2010

  118. avatar
    richCares August 23, 2011 at 12:38 pm #

    “Can a person file a federal income tax return and have it accepted by the IRS if there is more than one Social Security number associated with their name”
    No, they must be clarified.
    I made a mistake on my wife’s ssn, had to go to local IRS office to correct

  119. avatar
    Majority Will August 23, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

    Loren: What fool would still be repeating the premise of an April Fool’s Joke two years later, acting like the joke was real? Why, it’s [john mirse]!

    The farce is strong with this one.

  120. avatar
    NBC August 23, 2011 at 1:13 pm #

    Majority Will: john mirse: If anyone wants to believe that the Postal Service changed zip codes sometime between
    June 1976 and July 30, 1980, go right ahead, but unless someone has evidence that such a zip code change was made, then they have nothing.

    And in fact evidence has been provided. So what now my confused friend? You are quick to jump to conclusions but light on supporting evidence… And yet you appear to be holding others to a much higher standard.
    Ironic isn’t it?

  121. avatar
    Majority Will August 23, 2011 at 1:22 pm #

    NBC: And in fact evidence has been provided. So what now my confused friend? You are quick to jump to conclusions but light on supporting evidence… And yet you appear to be holding others to a much higher standard.
    Ironic isn’t it?

    Which is probably why john mirse has obviously preferred the safe, comfy confines of the birther cesspool, freerepublic.com for the past three years and other birther sites where dissenting opinions and common sense are actively banned and forbidden. He pretends to be concerned over contrary evidence and then predictably gets coddled by his birther brothers with a steady stream of fact free, asinine, bigoted and baseless speculations.

    Why he is here is a mildly interesting question since he has everything he ever wanted on his favorite birther sites.

  122. avatar
    Rickey August 23, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    john mirse:

    If anyone wants to believe that the Postal Service changed zip codes sometime between
    June 1976 and July 30, 1980, go right ahead, but unless someone has evidence that such a zip code change was made, then they have nothing.

    As others have pointed out, the Postal Service frequently changes Zip Codes, particularly in areas which have experienced rapid population growth. When I moved to Jefferson County in Colorado in 1981, everyone living south of Hamden Avenue was Zip Code 80123. Two years later a new Post Office was built to service people south of Hamden but west of Wadsworth, so the people in that area saw their Zip Code change from 80123 to 80127. When the population in a certain area reaches a critical mass, a new Zip Code is created to allow for more efficient sorting and delivery.

    In much the same way, the phone company will add a new area code when the need arises. New York City (Manhattan) used to be all 212, but no longer, Now Manhattan is split between 212 and 646. Seinfeld even did a show about it.

    Indeed, a few minutes of research reveals that the geographic area for Zip Code 96814 is immediately adjacent to the geographic area for Zip Code 96826. In fact, there is a Korean restaurant called Yakiniku Seoul which is located at 1521 S. King Street, a 5-minute walk from Obama’s former residence at 1617 Beretania Street. The Zip Code for the Beretania Street address is now 96826. Do you want to guess what the Zip Code is for the Korean restaurant? Would you believe 96814?

    If the envelope containing Obama’s Social Security was sent to the correct street address but with Zip Code 06814, it might have been delayed for a day or two but it would have been delivered. The automated sorting would have routed it to Danbury, but upon receipt at the Danbury Post Office a human sorter would have immediately recognized that Honolulu is not in Connecticut and the envelope would have been correctly routed to Hawaii. Such errors happen all the time and it would not have caused anyone’s head to explode.

  123. avatar
    Stanislaw August 23, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

    Majority Will:
    Why he is here is a mildly interesting question since he has everything he ever wanted on his favorite birther sites.

    Like most birthers who find their way here only to be met with facts and evidence, he probably actually thought that the stuff he read on those right wing websites was true.

  124. avatar
    Horus August 23, 2011 at 2:00 pm #

    Black Lion: One only needs to look at the title page for a big red flag in the form of an embarrassing misspelling of Obama’s name:

    Maybe that’s why he could not find Obama’s Long Form BC?
    He was looking for a misspelled name!

  125. avatar
    Joey August 23, 2011 at 2:17 pm #

    richCares:
    “Can a person file a federal income tax return and have it accepted by the IRS if there is more than one Social Security number associated with their name”
    No, they must be clarified.
    I made a mistake on my wife’s ssn, had to go to local IRS office to correct

    Thanks Rich, that’s what I thought. My understanding was that people who are the victims of identity theft can have a terrible time filing their tax returns until all is cleared up.
    “Nothing to see here on the Social Security number myth, please move along now!”

  126. avatar
    Horus August 23, 2011 at 2:23 pm #

    Judge Mental: No spellchecker system can identify whether the arabic name Barak or Barack is the correct spelling.

    It can if you “Add” when it comes up as misspelled.

  127. avatar
    Horus August 23, 2011 at 2:27 pm #

    Joey: In other words, nothing that’s forced through ever gets overturned, the power progression
    never backs up towards the starting point from whence it came.”

    What a crock!
    With the Roberts Supreme Court we KNOW that is NOT true!

  128. avatar
    Obsolete August 23, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    Michelle Bachmann said as President she will bring all earthquakes down to under 3 on the Richter Scale.

    Makes as much sense as her claim that she will bring gas under $2 a gallon as President.

  129. avatar
    Joey August 23, 2011 at 2:51 pm #

    Horus: What a crock!
    With the Roberts Supreme Court we KNOW that is NOT true!

    Just another example of Tim Adams’ incredibly inept attempts at “gonzo journalism.” Nothing he wrote has to be true because it’s all just “creative non-fiction.”

  130. avatar
    jayHG August 23, 2011 at 3:29 pm #

    Loren: Hey now, just because it started as a joke doesn’t mean it’s “not real.” Not according to Birther logic, that is.Take, for instance, the claim that Obama was registered as a foreign student at Occidental. That was a friggin’ April Fool’s Joke. It’s been quite publicly known to be an April Fool’s Joke for over two years.And yet we continue to see Birthers speculate that Obama was registered as a foreign student at Occidental. Like in this FreeRepublic post from last month:“When in the world is President Obama going to release his Occidental and Columbia college records so that we can see once and for all Obama registered as a foreign student, and we find out how he paid his expenses at those two colleges?”What fool would still be repeating the premise of an April Fool’s Joke two years later, acting like the joke was real? Why, it’s you!Y’know, you should’ve done a little research before claiming on the internet that Obama registered as a foreign student, when a little research would tell you that the claim was satire, a parody, a joke and NOT real at all.

    LOREN, tooooooooo funny. Poor Mr. Mirse……he’s such a sincere, complete and TOTAL idiot……..

  131. avatar
    misha August 23, 2011 at 3:35 pm #

    jayHG: LOREN, tooooooooo funny. Poor Mr. Mirse……he’s such a sincere, complete and TOTAL idiot……..

    jayHG: don’t forget Bachmann, Santorum and their crowd have repeatedly stated slavery was a benevolent institution.

  132. avatar
    gorefan August 23, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    misha: don’t forget Bachmann, Santorum and their crowd have repeatedly stated slavery was a benevolent institution.

    Have you read this New Yorker article:

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/15/110815fa_fact_lizza

    Apparently, her views have been shaped by her former professor John Eidsmoe. She worked as his research assistant on his “Christianity and the Constitution” in which he argues that

    “John Jay, Alexander Hamilton, and John Adams “expressed their abhorrence for the institution” and explains that “many Christians opposed slavery even though they owned slaves.” They didn’t free their slaves, he writes, because of their benevolence. “It might be very difficult for a freed slave to make a living in that economy; under such circumstances setting slaves free was both inhumane and irresponsible.”

    That wasn’t just a mistake, she really believes that sh!t.

  133. avatar
    jayHG August 23, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    misha: jayHG: don’t forget Bachmann, Santorum and their crowd have repeatedly stated slavery was a benevolent institution.

    Yes, because my grandmother used to “fondly” tell the story of the black man in her small southern town who helped stop a runaway horse drawn wagon carrying two white women and afterwards, was beaten by the white men for looking at white women. There was benevolence all over the place there!

  134. avatar
    misha August 23, 2011 at 5:04 pm #

    gorefan: Have you read this New Yorker article:

    Yes, and I bookmarked it on delicious.

    jayHG: There was benevolence all over the place there!

    Remember, Bachmann and Santorum signed this:
    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/07/08/264264/the-family-leaders-marriage-pledge-says-unwed-slaves-preferable-parents-for-african-americans/

    “Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an African-American baby born after the election of the USA’s first African-American President.”

    That is a fairy tale. Most slaves’ children were sold from their parents at auctions. Even if a master allowed slaves to marry, couples were frequently torn apart when one or both were sold.

    I highly recommend The Jew Store, by Stella Suberman.

    http://www.amazon.com/Jew-Store-Stella-Suberman/dp/1565123301

  135. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 5:08 pm #

    Rickey wrote: If the envelope containing Obama’s Social Security was sent to the correct street address but with Zip Code 06814, it might have been delayed for a day or two but it would have been delivered. The automated sorting would have routed it to Danbury, but upon receipt at the Danbury Post Office a human sorter would have immediately recognized that Honolulu is not in Connecticut and the envelope would have been correctly routed to Hawaii. Such errors happen all the time and it would not have caused anyone’s head to explode.
    *******
    And how did Hawaii teenager Obama end up with a Social Security card having the number 042-68-4425, when, at the same time, Connecticut resident Thomas Wood ended up with a number just one digit below Obama at 042-68-4424, a number that Wood applied for on 3-21-77, about the same time that teenager Obama supposedly applied for his Social Security number back in Hawaii?

    Not only are the first 3 digits “042” the same for both persons, but the next two digits “68” and the next 3 digits “442” are also the same. An amazing coincidence or what?

    The fact that the first 8 digits of Hawaii resident Obama’s Social Security number match the same 8 digits of Connecticut resident Wood’s first 8 digits cannot be explained by simply calling it a strange coincidence, or saying that it occurred by pure chance, or saying that it was due to some clerical error back in the Social Security central processing center in Baltimore back in the 1970s.

    Didn’t the Social Security Administration keypunch machines have some type of backup or verifying system to make sure that clerical errors were corrected before numbers were printed on Social Security cards?

    In addition, if President Obama is the only person in Social Security history who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii who ended up with a number where the first 3 digits “042” refer to the state of Connecticut, then I say that such an occurrence is almost impossible, because if a clerk made a mistake with Obama’s Hawaii Social Security application, it wouldn’t have been the first or last time it happened.

    That is, if there was simply a clerical error with teenager Obama’s application, then there should be other people who applied for Social Security cards in Hawaii but who ended up with numbers where the first 3 digits refer to the state of Connecticut just like Obama, but so far, not a single person has come forward to say that he applied for a Social Security number in Hawaii but he ended up with a number where the first 3 digits refer to the state of Connecticut. Not a one.

    If no one comes forward between now and election day Nov. 2012 and says that he also applied for a card in Hawaii but he has a number where the first 3 digits refer to the state of Connecticut like what happened to teenager Obama back in the 1970s, then that information adds more fuel to the argument that Obama did not apply for his Social Security card in Hawaii when he was a teenager as he claims.

  136. avatar
    richCares August 23, 2011 at 5:11 pm #

    argument that Obama did not apply for his Social Security card in Hawaii when he was a teenager as he claims.
    Wharever! how much sillier can you get?

  137. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 23, 2011 at 5:18 pm #

    Actually that’s not only amazing, it is virtually inevitable that someone would have a social-security number next to Obama’s, and the same is true for most people who have had their numbers for a while.

    john mirse: Not only are the first 3 digits “042‘ the same for both persons, but the next two digits “68‘ and the next 3 digits “442‘ are also the same. An amazing coincidence or what?

  138. avatar
    misha August 23, 2011 at 5:19 pm #

    john mirse: If no one comes forward between now and election day…and says that he also applied for a card in Hawaii but he has a number where the first 3 digits refer to…Connecticut…then that information adds more fuel to the argument that Obama did not apply for his Social Security card in Hawaii when he was a teenager as he claims.

    If Ann Coulter does not come forward, and deny she had an abortion at Planned Parenthood, that adds more fuel to the rumor. Also, Glenn Beck never denied raping and murdering a girl in 1990.

  139. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 23, 2011 at 5:20 pm #

    Since you don’t know anything about now many Connecticut social-security numbers were assigned to Hawaiians, your comment is completely stupid and irresponsible I you make up stuff out of thin air and then try to reason based on it. That’s insane.

    john mirse: if President Obama is the only person in Social Security history who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii who ended up with a number where the first 3 digits “042‘ refer to the state of Connecticut, then I say that such an occurrence is almost impossible,

  140. avatar
    misha August 23, 2011 at 5:23 pm #

    john mirse: Not only are the first 3 digits “042‘ the same for both persons, but the next two digits “68‘ and the next 3 digits “442‘ are also the same. An amazing coincidence or what?

    Glenn Beck’s car was in the same state at the same time that poor girl was raped and murdered. An amazing coincidence or what?

  141. avatar
    G August 23, 2011 at 5:25 pm #

    I believe you meant to say “that’s not only NOT amazing”…

    Dr. Conspiracy: Actually that’s not only amazing, it is virtually inevitable that someone would have a social-security number next to Obama’s, and the same is true for most people who have had their numbers for a while.

  142. avatar
    Joey August 23, 2011 at 5:27 pm #

    John Mirse says “If no one comes forward between now and election day Nov. 2012 and says that he also applied for a card in Hawaii but he has a number where the first 3 digits refer to the state of Connecticut like what happened to teenager Obama back in the 1970s, then that information adds more fuel to the argument that Obama did not apply for his Social Security card in Hawaii when he was a teenager as he claims.”

    Anyone who doesn’t think that Obama’s Social Security number is valid has the option of voting against him in the 2012 general election. The doubters should exercise that option.

    However I think most people would believe that if any citizen’s Social Security number was valid enough to file federal income tax returns for decades that it’s probably a valid number.

    John Mirse’s point about duplication of a possible error is silly. Sometimes one clerk makes an error and no one else makes the same error.

  143. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 23, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Of course there are several or even thousands of social-security numbers associated with a given name. I daresay there are many hundreds of SSNs associated with James A. Johnson, for example. It’s not unusual for several children with a particularly common name to be born on the same day even in the same state: one name, multiple SSNs.

    richCares: “Can a person file a federal income tax return and have it accepted by the IRS if there is more than one Social Security number associated with their name”

  144. avatar
    richCares August 23, 2011 at 5:35 pm #

    “I’m not sure what you’re getting at.”
    a name may have many ssn but if your w2 form is filed it must be with the same ssn as previous filings. it will nor be accepted with multiple ssn.

  145. avatar
    gorefan August 23, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

    john mirse: Didn’t the Social Security Administration keypunch machines have some type of backup or verifying system to make sure that clerical errors were corrected before numbers were printed on Social Security cards?

    You are such a dope.

    The SSA is still making clerical errors.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-social-security-wrongly-declares-14000-people-dead-each-year-20110817,0,3267092.story

  146. avatar
    Loren August 23, 2011 at 5:52 pm #

    john mirse:
    The fact that the first 8 digits of Hawaii resident Obama’s Social Security number match the same 8 digits of Connecticut resident Wood’s first 8 digits cannot be explained by simply calling it a strange coincidence, or saying that it occurred by pure chance,

    You realize it doesn’t have to be coincidence OR chance, right? There’s nothing coincidental about Obama’s SSN sharing 8 digits with someone else’s. No matter WHAT number Obama was assigned, it was guaranteed to share 8 digits with nine other people’s SSNs. The odds were 1:1.

    My own SSN shares eight digits with a dead person. It’s not a matter of coincidence or chance; it just is.

    And speaking of my SSN, my parents applied for numbers for me and my two siblings when I was about 5. All three were applied for at the same time. And yet, while I share seven digits with my younger brother, they’re not numerically adjacent, and mine doesn’t even come first. Indeed, my number is actually 42 HIGHER than his. That’s just the way stuff got processed.

  147. avatar
    Thrifty August 23, 2011 at 5:57 pm #

    john mirse: And how did Hawaii teenager Obama end up with a Social Security card having the number 042-68-4425, when, at the same time, Connecticut resident Thomas Wood ended up with a number just one digit below Obama at 042-68-4424, a number that Wood applied for on 3-21-77, about the same time that teenager Obama supposedly applied for his Social Security number back in Hawaii?

    Um…… what?

    I am honestly baffled by your question. That’s like asking… “How did President Barack Obama gain access to the innermost chambers of the Pentagon, when only high level officials such as the Secretary of Defense, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the President of the United States are allowed in there.”

    Young Barack Obama received his number the same way Mr. Wood received his number; it was issued by the Social Security Administration.

    This is really a new peak in you birthers exploding the mundane into the sinister.

  148. avatar
    LMK August 23, 2011 at 6:12 pm #

    Daniel:
    From the “acknowledgments” section…

    “This project should not be considered a finished artistic production,”

    That statement, and the whole English department thing, makes me wonder if it actually was presented as serious research? Maybe it was presented as an “artistic work”, i.e. a piece of satire, or fiction?

    Pure speculation on my part, but it would help to be able to read the response to the thesis.

    I was wondering if this was Adams’ completed thesis. I think that it is. I believe that Adams’ is planning to publish this elsewhere, which is why he states that this is not a “finished artistic production”. He does thank his committee members for allowing him to “complete this course of study”, so I think that this is his Masters’ thesis. Embarrassing.

    “This project should not be considered a finished artistic production, it is a
    beginning effort. While my debt to the entire faculty and members of the administration,
    who gave me the opportunity to complete this course of study, is immeasurable, certain
    persons are owed special mention for their active participation in the events this work
    depicts. Without their voices being raised in support of my rights to academic inquiry and
    freedom of expression, this work would not have been possible.”

    Nothing in that shows that he is actually graduating though. It may be that his thesis was rejected, but that Adams’ was still allowed to publish it on TopScholar. The only way to know if Adams’ thesis was accepted would be to see the sign-off form or to find evidence that Adams’ did graduate.

    Writing a thesis and having it accepted are 2 different things.

  149. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    Dr. C wrote: Actually that’s not only amazing, it is virtually inevitable that someone would have a social-security number next to Obama’s, and the same is true for most people who have had their numbers for a while.
    *******

    Shouldn’t Hawaiian teenager Obama’s number have been 942-68-4425, where the first 3 digits refer to the state of Hawaii, even if the Postal Service put the wrong zip code 06826 that refers to Connecticut on the envelope, an envelope that had the correct Hawaii address of 1617 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, Hawaii, Apt. 1008?

    And shouldn’t there be someone out there with Social Security numbers 942-68-4424 and 942-68-4426 who applied for their cards in the 1970s about the same time that Obama supposedly did, numbers that would have been listed before and after Obama’s number, if the Social Security Administration had given Obama the correct number of 942-68-4425 as it should have, and if teenager Obama had applied for a Social Security number in Hawaii in the 1970s like he claims?

    What about the middle digits “68”? Are there any persons out there who applied for cards in Hawaii who also have those two middle “68” digits like Obama’s number does? If there are, I would like to hear from them.

    And if there are people out there who also have the two middle digits “68” like Obama does but did not apply for their cards in Hawaii or Connecticut, I would also like to hear from them and learn the name of the state in the United States they were in when they applied for their Social Security card. Obama says he was in Hawaii when he applied for his.

    If Obama doesn’t say something about his Social Security controversy before election day Nov. 2012, he is going to lose a lot of votes on election day Nov. 2012 because of his silence concerning his Social Security number controversy.

  150. avatar
    LMK August 23, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    J. Edward Tremlett:
    Tim adams, at WND, on why his thesis is so bad: “After I was told about this, I looked into it this past week. Evidently what occurred was that I use a current version of Microsoft Office, while the school is still using a 2000-2003 version,since the two programs are not backwards compatible, the thesis was stripped of editing and mangled when it was uploaded. The school then published the document as a PDF in that condition and put it on the library site. Now, I could have just as easily given them a PDF version, contemporary Microsoft programs allow you to convert any Word.doc’s to PDF automatically, but that wasn’t done here. What else wasn’t done here? Well, WKU didn’t correct their error, and WKU posted the mess online. Now, was this simply a matter of uncaring office staff, or was it a deliberate insult?”

    Well, that is just silly. Tim is such a maroon.

  151. avatar
    richCares August 23, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    “is going to lose a lot of votes on election day Nov. 2012 ”
    wharever
    you won’t vote for him if he does (or dosn’t)

  152. avatar
    Daniel August 23, 2011 at 6:37 pm #

    john mirse: If Obama doesn’t say something about his Social Security controversy before election day Nov. 2012, he is going to lose a lot of votes on election day Nov. 2012 because of his silence concerning his Social Security number controversy.

    No he won’t. Why?

    Because not one of the morons who believe this crap is ever going to vote for Obama no matter what. So by simply ignoring this lunacy he is not only NOT losing votes, he’s also not being seen as further pandering to the lunatic fringe.

  153. avatar
    Rickey August 23, 2011 at 6:46 pm #

    john mirse:

    Not only are the first 3 digits “042‘ the same for both persons, but the next two digits “68‘ and the next 3 digits “442‘ are also the same. An amazing coincidence or what?

    The fact that the first 8 digits of Hawaii resident Obama’s Social Security number match the same 8 digits of Connecticut resident Wood’s first 8 digits cannot be explained by simply calling it a strange coincidence, or saying that it occurred by pure chance, or saying that it was due to some clerical error back in the Social Security central processing center in Baltimore back in the 1970s.

    Didn’t the Social Security Administration keypunch machines have some type of backup or verifying system to make sure that clerical errors were corrected before numbers were printed on Social Security cards?

    In addition,if President Obama is the only person in Social Security history who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii who ended up with a number where the first 3 digits “042‘ refer to the state of Connecticut, then I say that such an occurrence is almost impossible, because if a clerk made a mistake with Obama’s Hawaii Social Security application, it wouldn’t have been the first or last time it happened.

    That is, if there was simply a clerical error with teenager Obama’s application, thenthere should be other people who applied for Social Security cards in Hawaii but who ended up with numbers where the first 3 digits refer to the state of Connecticut just like Obama, but so far, not a single person has come forward to say that he applied for a Social Security number in Hawaii but he ended up with a number where the first 3 digits refer to the state of Connecticut.Not a one.

    If no one comes forward between now and election day Nov. 2012 and says that he also applied for a card in Hawaii but he has a number where the first 3 digits refer to the state of Connecticut like what happened to teenager Obama back in the 1970s,then that information adds more fuel to the argument that Obama did not apply for his Social Security card in Hawaii when he was a teenager as he claims.

    Wow. Your derangement is worse than I imagined.

    Guess what? There is a person out there who has a SSN which is identical to mine. except that the last digit is one number lower. And there is another person out there who has a SSN which is identical to mine, except that the last digit is one number higher than mine. Is that an amazing coincidence? No, because the Social Security Administration uses all available numbers within a given sequence, from XXX-XX-0001 to XXX-XX-9999.

    Here is what the SSN Validator has to say about Obama’s SSN:

    Social Security Number: 042-68-4425
    Date of this report: August 23, 2011
    State of Issuance: Connecticut
    Approx. Date of Issuance: 1976 And 1977
    Issuance Status: According to the Social Security Administration,
    this SSN has been issued.
    SSA Death Masterfile: No record as of 04-01-2011
    STATUS: THIS SSN HAS BEEN VALIDATED!

    Try it yourself:

    http://www.ssnvalidator.com/default.aspx

    Notice that the number was issued in 1976 or 1977, when Obama was a teenager. If the number wasn’t assigned to Obama, who was it assigned to? Identify someone else who is associated what that SSN and you may be on to something. Otherwise you have nothing but baseless speculation.

    The idea that the Social Security Administration had some verifying system which could catch the input of an incorrect Zip Code is just more baseless speculation on your part. How would a machine have been able to compare what was input to what was on the handwritten SS-5? Of course, we don’t know why the Zip Code was entered as 06814. It may have been a typographical error (hitting the wrong key), or the 9 on the SS-5 may have had a large loop which made it appear to be a zero and the key punch operator intentionally entered a zero. Either way, it would have been the entry of the Zip Code which would have triggered the issuance of a Connecticut prefix, and from the standpoint of the SSA it was an inconsequential error.

    My ex-wife has a SSN with a Pennsylvania prefix (212). She has never lived in Pennsylvania and never worked in Pennsylvania. It just happened. She has no idea why.

    Why don’t you submit a FOIL request to the SSA and ask them for the statistics on how many SSNs with Connecticut prefixes have been issued to people who lived in Hawaii at the time of the filing of the SS-5? My guess is that they will respond that they do not keep such statistics, because such errors are of no significance.

  154. avatar
    Scientist August 23, 2011 at 6:49 pm #

    john mirse: If Obama doesn’t say something about his Social Security controversy before election day Nov. 2012, he is going to lose a lot of votes on election day Nov. 2012 because of his silence concerning his Social Security number controversy.

    What SSNs do Romney, Perry, Bachmann et al have? ,Where are their birth certificates? None of them have released them (I realize Iowa law makes Bachmann’s public, but she did not release it).

    How do we know Obama wasn’t in Connecticut when he applied? His autobiography is not intended to be an all-encompassing description of every moment in his life, so the fact that it doesn’t mention he ever visited Connecticut doesn’t mean he didn’t.

    What is the significance of his SSN? How does a prefix you condsider odd indicate anything that should concern anyone? What exactly is your allegation?

  155. avatar
    Majority Will August 23, 2011 at 6:51 pm #

    john mirse: If Obama doesn’t say something about his Social Security controversy before election day Nov. 2012, he is going to lose a lot of votes on election day Nov. 2012 because of his silence concerning his Social Security number controversy.

    You’re a lunatic and your bizarre attempts at fear mongering are just sad.

    Is twelve considered a lot in your sad, dark and paranoid world?

    Tell us more about how you mock another’s religion, think Dr. Fukino committed fraud but have no evidence and how you fell for an old April Fool’s Day joke. You spread a lot of manure around the web. Does it grow anything besides delusions and hatred?

  156. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 7:01 pm #

    Rickey wrote: My ex-wife has a SSN with a Pennsylvania prefix (212). She has never lived in Pennsylvania and never worked in Pennsylvania. It just happened. She has no idea why.
    *******

    I guess I am one of the lucky ones, because the first 3 digits on my card refer to the state where I applied for my Social Security card.

  157. avatar
    jayHG August 23, 2011 at 7:02 pm #

    “If Obama doesn’t say something about his Social Security controversy before election day Nov. 2012, he is going to lose a lot of votes on election day Nov. 2012 because of his silence concerning his Social Security number controversy.”

    John Mirse types the above statement at the end of EVERY ONE OF HIS POST ON FREE REPUBLIC. He seems to be talking to himself. He feels the need to desparately hope and pray and subliminally suggest that “psstttsssstttt, don’t vote for Obama” when he types this.

    He’s a birther loon……..

  158. avatar
    Scientist August 23, 2011 at 7:07 pm #

    john mirse: I guess I am one of the lucky ones, because the first 3 digits on my card refer to the state where I applied for my Social Security card

    What about Romney, Perry, Bachmann, Paul, etc? Unless they rellease their SSNs and they either match where they lived when they applied or explain any discrepancy, you shouldn’t vote for them. So far, it looks like you will have to stay home on election day.

  159. avatar
    Rickey August 23, 2011 at 7:09 pm #

    john mirse:

    Shouldn’t Hawaiian teenager Obama’s number have been 942-68-4425, where the first 3 digits refer to the state of Hawaii, evenif the Postal Service put the wrong zip code06826 that refers to Connecticut on the envelope, an envelopethathadthe correct Hawaii address of 1617 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, Hawaii,Apt. 1008?

    And shouldn’t there be someone out there with Social Security numbers 942-68-4424 and 942-68-4426 who applied for their cards in the 1970s about the same time that Obama supposedly did,numbers that would have been listedbefore and afterObama’s number,if the Social Security Administration had given Obama the correct number of 942-68-4425 as it should have, and if teenager Obama had applied for a Social Security number in Hawaii in the 1970s like he claims?

    What about the middledigits “68‘?Are there any persons out therewho applied for cards in Hawaii who alsohave thosetwo middle“68‘ digits like Obama’s number does? If there are, I would like to hear from them.

    You don’t even do basic research, do you? The prefix 942 has never been used by the SSA (not yet, anyway). The prefixes for Hawaii are 575-576 and 750-751

    http://www.socialsecurity.gov/employer/stateweb.htm

    The middle digits are called group numbers and have no particular significance.

    http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/geocard.html

    You’re welcome, but next time try doing your own research. It can be so rewarding.

  160. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 7:11 pm #

    Majority Will: Tell us more about how you mock another’s religion, think Dr. Fukino committed fraud but have no evidence and how you fell for an old April Fool’s Day joke. You spread a lot of manure around the web. Does it grow anything besides delusions and hatred?
    *******
    Thanks for the kind words. But come election day Nov. 2012—especially if Obama does not talk about his Connecticut Social Security number, if Obama doesn’t allow Kapiolani to release his Aug. 4, 1961 hospital records, if Obama doesn’t release his Occidental and Columbia records, and if Obama won’t allow the public to examine his original long form birth certificate in the Hawaii archives—-we will see who has the last laugh on election night.

  161. avatar
    Rickey August 23, 2011 at 7:15 pm #

    john mirse:

    I guess I am one of the lucky ones, because thefirst 3 digits on my card refer to the state where I applied for my Social Security card.

    That’s your best retort? Where is your evidence that Obama’s SSN was issued to someone else? We know that it was issued to someone in 1976 or 1977. If it wasn’t Obama, who was it? We also know from the Social Security Death Index that the person is still alive, which means that there has to be a credit record of this person somewhere. Why hasn’t Orly’s team of crack investigators been able to put a name with the number? Are they incompetent? (well, yes they are, but I digress)

  162. avatar
    Scientist August 23, 2011 at 7:19 pm #

    john mirse: But come election day Nov. 2012—especially if Obama does not talk about his Connecticut Social Security number, if Obama doesn’t allow Kapiolani to release his Aug. 4, 1961 hospital records, if Obama doesn’t release his Occidental and Columbia records, and if Obama won’t allow the public to examine his original long form birth certificate in the Hawaii archives—-we will see who has the last laugh on election night

    What records have any of Obama’s opponents released?

  163. avatar
    Rickey August 23, 2011 at 7:19 pm #

    john mirse:
    But come election day Nov. 2012—especially if Obama does not talk about his Connecticut Social Security number, if Obama doesn’t allow Kapiolani to release his Aug. 4, 1961 hospital records, if Obama doesn’t release his Occidental and Columbia records, and if Obama won’t allow the public to examine his original long form birth certificate in the Hawaii archives—-we will see who has the last laugh on election night.

    Such nonsense. If Obama is not re-elected, it will have nothing to do with the above. They only people who care about such things would not vote for Obama even if he produced a videotape of his birth showing that Ronald Reagan was present in the delivery room.

  164. avatar
    Sef August 23, 2011 at 7:24 pm #

    Maybe publishing this is Tim’s attempt at peer review. He’ll get feedback and corrections for free.

  165. avatar
    Northland10 August 23, 2011 at 7:29 pm #

    john mirse: especially if Obama does not talk about his Connecticut Social Security number, if Obama doesn’t allow Kapiolani to release his Aug. 4, 1961 hospital records, if Obama doesn’t release his Occidental and Columbia records, and if Obama won’t allow the public to examine his original long form birth certificate in the Hawaii archives

    I was going to ask… please quote the actual law that he has broken, what punishment is stated for breaking such a law, and what evidence you have that any of these laws have been broken, by Obama (or even anybody else.

    But since you never admitted you were wrong about zip codes changing (I did ask that above, I will stick with:

    Do not feed the troll 😈

  166. avatar
    Hawaiiborn August 23, 2011 at 7:33 pm #

    gorefan: 1617 Beretania

    Yes and currently the zip code for that address is now 96826 (my elementary school friend lived right across the street from the Punahou Circle Apartments)

    And the address today is 1617 South Beretania St. the street was divided into North and South in the late 70’s due to the incorporation of several smaller streets to make the bigger Beretania St that stretches from Aala Park (on the west end of Downtown Honolulu) to University Avenue.

  167. avatar
    Daniel August 23, 2011 at 7:39 pm #

    john mirse: we will see who has the last laugh on election night.

    If Obama loses the election, it won’t have anything to do with the efforts of birthers.

    However if Obama does win the election, he will owe much of that to the birthers handing the election to him on a silver platter.

    Are you sure you’re not really a paid Obot hired to make the Republican party look like a bunch of loons and whackos? If not, you should ask for a raise.

  168. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    Rickey wrote: You don’t even do basic research, do you? The prefix 942 has never been used by the SSA (not yet, anyway). The prefixes for Hawaii are 575-576 and 750-751
    *******
    Thanks for the information.

    So you are saying that if the Social Security clerk or keypunch operator back in the 1970s had put in Obama’s correct zip code of 96814, Obama would have received a card whose first 3 digits would have been either 575-576 or 750-751, numbers that refer to Hawaii.

    It looks like a clerk or keypunch operator back in Social Security’s central processing office in Baltimore in the 1970s made a mistake, a mistake that Social Security does not take seriously, because it seems that they make such mistakes all the time, that is, it seems that they often give a person a number that does not refer to the state where the person applied for his Social Security card.

    Still, I would like to hear from persons who filled out a Social Security form in Hawaii but whose first 3 digits—042—refers to Connecticut, because it seems to me that if a clerk in Baltimore made a mistake with Obama’s Hawaii zip code for whatever reason, there is a good chance that the same clerk or other clerks made the same mistake with other applications that came from Hawaii, that is, the clerk mistakenly typed a “0” for Connecticut several times when the clerk should have typed a “9” for Hawaii, and no supervisor and no machine corrected her mistakes.

  169. avatar
    Hawaiiborn August 23, 2011 at 7:52 pm #

    And how did Hawaiiteenager Obama end up with a Social Security card having the number 042-68-4425, when, at the same time, Connecticut resident Thomas Wood endedup with a number just one digit below Obama at 042-68-4424, a number that Wood applied for on 3-21-77, about the same time that teenager Obama supposedly applied for his Social Security number back in Hawaii?

    If no onecomes forward between now and election day Nov. 2012 and says that he alsoapplied for a card in Hawaii but he has a number wherethe first 3 digits refer to the state of Connecticut like what happened to teenager Obama back in the 1970s,then that information adds more fuelto the argument that Obama did not apply for his Social Security card in Hawaii when he was a teenageras he claims.

    My sister has 4 numbers off of my own. Yes I know her SSN because of it. Its not unusual at all. If the applications were received at the same time, they would be processed in whatever order they came in and given subsequent numbers.

  170. avatar
    Hawaiiborn August 23, 2011 at 8:05 pm #

    john mirse: So you are saying that if the Social Security clerk or keypunch operator back in the 1970s had put in Obama’s correct zip code of 96814, Obama would have received a card whose first 3 digits would have been either 575-576 or 750-751, numbers that refer to Hawaii.

    He could have received one with 575-576 or 750-751. The operative word is COULD

    My cousin born in 1981 has a SSN for Oregon. She’s never lived there and has lived in Hawaii all of her life.

    the SSA says that the geo codes means nothing and it STILL means nothing. Its just a clerical filing number, can be assigned to anyone, no matter where they were born.

  171. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 8:06 pm #

    Hawaiiborn wrote: My sister has 4 numbers off of my own. Yes I know her SSN because of it. Its not unusual at all. If the applications were received at the same time, they would be processed in whatever order they came in and given subsequent numbers.
    *******
    I assume that the first 3 digits of your Social Security number and your sister’s number correctly refer to Hawaii and not Connecticut.

    Do you happen to know anyone who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii but ended up with a number where the first 3 digits are “042” , a number that refers to the state of Connecticut? Thanks.

  172. avatar
    Hawaiiborn August 23, 2011 at 8:10 pm #

    “I assume that the first 3 digits of your Social Security number and your sister’s number correctly refer to Hawaii and not Connecticut. ”

    The first 8 numbers of my SSN matches my sister’s. and we were issued Hawaii associated SSN’s

  173. avatar
    Hawaiiborn August 23, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    john mirse: Do you happen to know anyone who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii but ended up with a number where the first 3 digits are “042‘ , a number that refers to the state of Connecticut? Thanks.

    Why is this important? You’ve been told time and time again that the GEO code means nothing. Its a CLERICAL filing number.

    did you ignore that my cousin has an Oregon SSN? She has never lived there, was born in Hawaii and only been outside the islands when she attended school in Wisconsin for two years. other than that she’s been in Hawaii all of her life.

    Can you tell me why she would be give an Oregon SSN despite the fact that none of Hawaii’s zip codes match any of Oregon’s?

  174. avatar
    Scientist August 23, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    john mirse: Do you happen to know anyone who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii but ended up with a number where the first 3 digits are “042‘ , a number that refers to the state of Connecticut? Thanks.

    I do. Are you happy now?

  175. avatar
    Rickey August 23, 2011 at 8:21 pm #

    john mirse:

    So you are saying that if the Social Security clerk or keypunch operator back in the 1970s had put in Obama’s correct zip code of 96814, Obama would have received a card whose first 3 digits would have been either 575-576 or 750-751, numbers that refer to Hawaii.

    I believe that in 1976-1977 the SSA may have been using only two prefixes for Hawaii, 575 and 576, but I would have to research that more to confirm it. But yes, if Obama’s Zip Code had been correctly entered he would have (or at least should have) received a SSN with a Hawaii prefix.

    john mirse:

    It looks like a clerk or keypunch operator back in Social Security’s central processing office in Baltimore in the 1970s made a mistake, a mistake that Social Security does not take seriously, because it seems that they make such mistakes all the time, that is, it seems that they often give a person a number that does not refer to the state where the person applied for his Social Security card.

    Who said that it happens all the time? Regardless, SSA’s own website says that no particular significance should be attached to the prefix:

    Note: One should not make too much of the “geographical code.” It is not meant to be any kind of useable geographical information. The numbering scheme was designed in 1936 (before computers) to make it easier for SSA to store the applications in our files in Baltimore since the files were organized by regions as well as alphabetically. It was really just a bookkeeping device for our own internal use and was never intended to be anything more than that.

    You are making too much of the geographical code.

    john mirse:

    Still, I would liketo hear from persons who filled out a Social Security form in Hawaii but whose first 3 digits—042—refers to Connecticut, because it seems to me that if a clerk in Baltimore made a mistake with Obama’s Hawaii zip code for whatever reason,there is a good chance that the same clerk or other clerks made the same mistake with other applications that came from Hawaii, that is, the clerk mistakenly typed a “0‘ for Connecticut several times when the clerk should have typed a “9‘ for Hawaii, and no supervisor and no machine corrected her mistakes.

    Good luck with that. How would you go about finding such a person?

    Have you ever typed for a living? Try typing for eight hours at a stretch without ever making a mistake. It isn’t easy, particularly for someone who is typing rapidly and trying to process applications as quickly as possible.

  176. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 8:23 pm #

    Hawaiiborn wrote: He could have received one with 575-576 or 750-751. The operative word is COULD

    My cousin born in 1981 has a SSN for Oregon. She’s never lived there and has lived in Hawaii all of her life.

    the SSA says that the geo codes means nothing and it STILL means nothing. Its just a clerical filing number, can be assigned to anyone, no matter where they were born.
    ********
    Presidential candidate Obama could clear up this controversy tomorrow by simply giving Social Security written permission to release a copy of his 1970s application to the public.

    A Social Security application form only asks very basic questions of the applicant.

    So why won’t presidential candidate Obama release a copy of his 1970s Social Security application tomorrow, or at least release it sometime during the 2012 presidential campaign, so that he can put this growing Social Security presidential campaign issue to rest.

  177. avatar
    misha August 23, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    john mirse: Do you happen to know anyone who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii but ended up with a number where the first 3 digits are “042‘ , a number that refers to the state of Connecticut?

    I don’t know about that, but my first 3 digits refer to Mars.

  178. avatar
    Scientist August 23, 2011 at 8:28 pm #

    john mirse- Did you miss it? I will repeat it-i know someone who applied from Hawaii and has 042 as the first 3 numbers.

    You lose,,,,,

  179. avatar
    Rickey August 23, 2011 at 8:29 pm #

    john mirse:

    So why won’t presidential candidate Obama release a copy of his 1970s Social Security application tomorrow, or at least release itsometime during the 2012 presidential campaign, so that he canput this growing Social Security presidential campaignissue to rest.

    Now your fantasies have become a campaign issue? Please identify a single candidate for President who has questioned the validity of Obama’s SSN. And please provide a link to your source for a change.

    While you are at it, please explain how Obama has been able to file Federal tax returns for all of his adult life with a fake SSN.

  180. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 8:39 pm #

    Scientist wrote: john mirse- Did you miss it? I will repeat it-i know someone who applied from Hawaii and has 042 as the first 3 numbers.

    You lose,,,,,
    ********
    Yes, I missed your message.

    You say you know someone besides Obama who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii but whose first three Social Security numbers are “042”?

    Thanks for the information. I hope that other people who know Hawaiians who have a Social Security number where the first 3 digits refer to Connecticut post their information here.

  181. avatar
    Rickey August 23, 2011 at 8:42 pm #

    misha: I don’t know about that, but my first 3 digits refer to Mars.

    My first three digits are 666. I’ve never known what to make of it.

  182. avatar
    Northland10 August 23, 2011 at 8:47 pm #

    john mirse: So why won’t presidential candidate Obama release a copy of his 1970s Social Security application tomorrow, or at least release it sometime during the 2012 presidential campaign,

    He does not release it so he can torment bigots who expect him to jump through fake hoops because they cannot stand that he is their President. Can’t you hear him laughing at you all the way from Martha’s Vineyard?

  183. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    Rickey wrote: wMy first three digits are 666. I’ve never known what to make of it.
    ********
    I think it refers to your address in the afterlife.

  184. avatar
    Scientist August 23, 2011 at 8:52 pm #

    john mirse: You say you know someone besides Obama who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii but whose first three Social Security numbers are “042‘?

    I do.

    john mirse: Thanks for the information. I hope that other people who know Hawaiians who have a Social Security number where the first 3 digits refer to Connecticut post their information here.

    How many do you want?

  185. avatar
    Hawaiiborn August 23, 2011 at 8:54 pm #

    john mirse: Presidential candidate Obama could clear up this controversy tomorrow by simply giving Social Security written permission to release a copy of his 1970s application to the public.

    A Social Security application form only asks very basic questions of the applicant.

    Obama can’t. What part of SSA documents are private as long as they are alive do you have a hard time understanding? Obama could beg and plead, but the SSA will NOT provide that information or documentation for the public to see.

    And most of that “basic” information is considered PRIVATE information. Sorry

  186. avatar
    misha August 23, 2011 at 8:56 pm #

    john mirse:
    Rickey wrote:wMy first three digits are 666. I’ve never known what to make of it.
    ********
    I think it refers to your address in the afterlife.

    What’s an “afterlife”?

  187. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

    Northland10 wrote: He does not release it so he can torment bigots who expect him to jump through fake hoops because they cannot stand that he is their President. Can’t you hear him laughing at you all the way from Martha’s Vineyard?
    *******
    Remember, he who laughs last laughs best.

    So let’s wait and see who will have the last laugh—Obama or his opponents—- come election day Nov. 2012 (1) if candidate Obama ignores this growing Social Security number issue, (2) if candidate Obama does not release his Occidental and Columbia college records, (3) if candidate Obama does not give Kapiolani hospital permission to release his Aug. 4, 1961 records, and (4) if candidate Obama does not give the public permission to examine his original long form birth certificate in the Hawaii archives.

  188. avatar
    Majority Will August 23, 2011 at 9:05 pm #

    john mirse:
    Majority Will: Tell us more about how you mock another’s religion, think Dr. Fukino committed fraud but have no evidence and how you fell for an old April Fool’s Day joke. You spread a lot of manure around the web. Does it grow anything besides delusions and hatred?
    *******
    Thanks for the kind words.But come election day Nov. 2012—especially if Obama does not talk about his Connecticut Social Security number, if Obama doesn’t allow Kapiolani to release his Aug. 4, 1961 hospital records, if Obama doesn’t release his Occidental and Columbia records, and if Obama won’t allow the public to examine his original long form birth certificate in the Hawaii archives—-we will see who has the last laugh on election night.

    Thanks for giving the opposition the support of complete, certifiable lunatics.*

    Obama/Biden 2012.

    *To: jda

    CNN is too funny for the following reason: CNN holds up an Obama “birth certificate” with the number blacked out and with no visible Hawaii seal, and then they expect us to accept it as a true Obama short form birth certificate. Does CNN think that we are idiots?
    1. Such a document-—with the number blacked out and with NO visible seal-—would never be accepted in any court, yet CNN expects us average people to accept it as an authentic Obama short form birth certificate. If a CNN reporter cannot feel a RAISED seal, the document is useless. Give me a break.

    2. NOTE It was probably downloaded from Obama’s Fight the Smears site if the number is blacked out.

    3. Doesn’t CNN get it? It is the RAISED seal that it is very important. If a person cannot feel a RAISED seal even though a person can see a seal, the document is not worth the paper it is printed on.

    4. That is, when you download Obama’s birth certificate from his site, if the document had a RAISED seal the site of origin, the seal is now FLAT after the document is downloaded from the internet, because one cannot download a RAISED seal over the Internet, and one cannot download both sides of the birth certificate at the same time, front and back.

    5.Let’s not forget the FactCheck site: FactCheck also claims that it is displaying Obama’s short form birth certificate, the exact same one that we see on Obama’s Fight the Smear site.

    6. I don’t know about you, but to me, the Obama short form birth certificate at FactCheck does not look like the one we see at Obama’s Fight the Smears site, because for one thing, the FactCheck one has an obvious seal, while the Fight the Smears one does not seem to have a visible seal.

    7. So, why do the two certificates appear to be so different, if they are supposed to be the exact, same certificate? Give me a break.

    8. Dr. Fukino: I am getting sick and tired of this former high-priced clerk in the Hawaii Department-—I want to vomit every time I hear the Fukino name-—telling us over and over again that she has seen and examined Obama’s long form birth certificate and so she she can vouch for the fact that Obama was born in the United States. It seems that she is the only one in the whole Hawaii government bureaucracy who has seen Obama’s long form birth certificate. Why is that?

    9. She irks me: What irks me is that Fukino takes it personal when we mere mortals thank her for her time, but we tell her that we still want to see Obama’s long form birth certificate for ourselves. The reason being that the longer Obama refuses to release his long form birth certificate to the public, the more the public has come to believe that Obama is hiding something on his long form birth certificate that he does not want us to see.

    10. What also irks me is Fukino’s public indignation because we dare to question her integrity by still wanting to see Obama’s long form birth certificate even after Dr. Fukino has told the public over and over during the past two years that Obama was born in Hawaii and he is thus an American citizen.

    11. Dear Fukino: We want to see Obama’s long form birth certificate to verify his parents names and his doctor and hospital names.

    12. If you don’t like it, that is tough. If you feel insulted that we still want to see Obama’s long form birth certificate even though you keep telling us over and over for the past two years that you have seen Obama’s long form birth certificate and Obama was born in Hawaii, again, that is tough.

    13. Dear Fukino: I wish that Trump would come out and call you a liar so that you could SUE Trump in court.

    14. But I bet you would never SUE Trump in court, because you know that you would have to produce a copy of Obama’s long form birth certificate in the discovery pre-trial, and you know you couldn’t do it, because if you did and the certificate did show that Obama was born in Hawaii, the public would finally get its hands on a copy of Obama’s long form birth certificate and see the information that Obama does not want the public to see, information that could prove that Obama had been lying to the public about his past all these years.

    15. So Fukino: Get lost. Show us Obama’s long form birth certificate or go disappear somewhere. Your word means nothing to us. You were just a high-priced clerk in the Hawaii government burearcracy who we don’t trust as far as we could throw you. Which means we don’t trust you and the other Hawaii government bureaucrats at all.

    32 posted on April 26, 2011 9:13:22 AM EDT by john mirse

    (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2710609/posts)

  189. avatar
    Joey August 23, 2011 at 10:06 pm #

    My my, that was quite a rant by John Mirse. He sure had his panties all in a bunch over the former Hawaii Director of Health, didn’t he?

    John Mirse did get a few things that he wanted though. Dr. Fukino did “go away,” with the rest of the Republican administration of Governor Linda Lingle when the Democrats took control of the Hawaii government in December, 2010.
    The Hawaii Republicans didn’t want to give Obama too much help, so they didn’t release the long form. However as soon as the Democrats came to power, the new Health Director, Loretta Fuddy, released the long form

  190. avatar
    Majority Will August 23, 2011 at 10:22 pm #

    Joey:
    My my, that was quite a rant by John Mirse. He sure had his panties all in a bunch over the former Hawaii Director of Health, didn’t he?

    John Mirse did get a few things that he wanted though. Dr. Fukino did “go away,” with the rest of the Republican administration of Governor Linda Lingle when the Democrats took control of the Hawaii government in December, 2010.
    The Hawaii Republicans didn’t want to give Obama too much help, so they didn’t release the long form. However as soon as the Democrats came to power, the new Health Director, Loretta Fuddy, released the long form

    His posts, like many birthers, scream “SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS, BOY!”

    The idiotic, self-righteous indignation and puerile tantrums demanding personal attention reveals the vile, pathetic and ugly side of the bigots and racists of the lunatic fringe.

  191. avatar
    Stanislaw August 23, 2011 at 10:29 pm #

    Majority Will: His posts, like many birthers, scream “SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS, BOY!”

    As long as those papers don’t say something inconvenient like “Place of Birth: Honolulu, HI,” of course.

  192. avatar
    richCares August 23, 2011 at 10:33 pm #

    “So let’s wait and see who will have the last laugh”
    every time birthers say this or somethimg similar, they fail, just like perfect clockwork, they lose. We have seen it so often that it is easy to predict, what a laugh it will be.
    .
    now the real question is how many OMG failures does it take to change a birthers mind, my guess is 12,789,982 times.

  193. avatar
    Stanislaw August 23, 2011 at 10:36 pm #

    richCares:
    “So let’s wait and see who will have the last laugh”
    every time birtherssay this or somethimg similar, they fail, just like perfect clockwork, they lose. We have seen it so often that it is easy to predict, what a laugh it will be.

    I’ve been laughing at the birthers nonstop since the ’08 election, which begs the question: is it really a last laugh if I actually never stopped laughing?

  194. avatar
    Stanislaw August 23, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    Reading all of that delusional, ignorant birther nonsense made me realize why that site is called Free Republic: because it’s free of common sense, free of logic, free of facts, free of truth…

  195. avatar
    G August 23, 2011 at 11:05 pm #

    LMAO! Yeah, and how is that working out for ya so far? Over 3 years of ranting and raving and…nothing…nada…zip.

    We’ve been laughing at you misguided delusional fools since day 1. So far, we’ve been right 100% of the time and you’ve got nothing. Wake up tomorrow and guess who is POTUS – yeah, that’s right…same one who was today and yesterday. The one that was elected by over 9.5 million more votes than his nearest opponent.

    Sorry, but the real world doesn’t pay attention to you crazy birthers and your bizarre rantings. Nobody will care about your nonsense in the 2012 election cycle except your own stunted and small circle of malcontents who never would have voted for him anyways and didn’t vote for him last time.

    Therefore, your idle rants ring hollow and flaccidly impotent. Your vote is no different than it would be regardless and is already factored in. He didn’t need you before and he won’t need you in 2012. Go ahead, get all the people who voted against Obama to wail and rant like you…not that you could ever even get that. Still wouldn’t make a difference. Wow, so the people who didn’t vote for him last time are threatening to not vote for him this time. Color me *shocked*…

    john mirse: Remember, he who laughs last laughs best.
    So let’s wait and see who will have the last laugh—Obama or his opponents—- come election day Nov. 2012 (1) if candidate Obama ignores this growing Social Security number issue, (2) if candidate Obama does not release his Occidental and Columbia college records, (3) if candidate Obama does not give Kapiolani hospital permission to release his Aug. 4, 1961 records, and (4) if candidate Obama does not give the public permission to examine his original long form birth certificate in the Hawaii archives.

  196. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 11:26 pm #

    G wrote: Therefore, your idle rants ring hollow and flaccidly impotent. Your vote is no different than it would be regardless and is already factored in. He didn’t need you before and he won’t need you in 2012. Go ahead, get all the people who voted against Obama to wail and rant like you…not that you could ever even get that. Still wouldn’t make a difference. Wow, so the people who didn’t vote for him last time are threatening to not vote for him this time. Color me *shocked*
    *********
    I’m sure presidential candidate Obama and his campaign advisers are glad to hear you tell people like me that presidential candidate Obama doesn’t need my vote on election day Nov. 2012. …

  197. avatar
    Majority Will August 23, 2011 at 11:30 pm #

    john mirse: I’m sure presidential candidate Obama and his campaign advisers are glad to hear you tell people like me that presidential candidate Obama doesn’t need my vote on election day Nov. 2012. …

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! !

    Whew! Holy crap! THAT was funny!

  198. avatar
    G August 23, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    That’s right, he doesn’t. Didn’t last time. Trust me, they aren’t factoring you into their equation this time either.

    john mirse: G wrote: Therefore, your idle rants ring hollow and flaccidly impotent. Your vote is no different than it would be regardless and is already factored in. He didn’t need you before and he won’t need you in 2012. Go ahead, get all the people who voted against Obama to wail and rant like you…not that you could ever even get that. Still wouldn’t make a difference. Wow, so the people who didn’t vote for him last time are threatening to not vote for him this time. Color me *shocked**********I’m sure presidential candidate Obama and his campaign advisers are glad to hear you tell people like me that presidential candidate Obama doesn’t need my vote on election day Nov. 2012. …

  199. avatar
    Majority Will August 23, 2011 at 11:51 pm #

    G:
    That’s right, he doesn’t.Didn’t last time.Trust me, they aren’t factoring you into their equation this time either.

    I just sent an e-mail to my friends at Obama for America that a delusional, hate filled birther bigot who actively spreads lies about the President and calls him a liar and a fraud is threatening to not vote for the President again. I can only imagine the panic. Expect the President to address the nation as quickly as possible.

    From “people like me”.

  200. avatar
    john mirse August 23, 2011 at 11:52 pm #

    Scientist wrote: Do you happen to know anyone who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii but ended up with a number where the first 3 digits are “042‘ , a number that refers to the state of Connecticut? Thanks.

    I do. Are you happy now?
    *******
    Social Security could easily program its powerful computers to find out how many people there were who applied for a Social Security card in Hawaii but whose first 3 digits point to Connecticut.

    If there are any such people—you say that you know of at least one—I would think that Social Security’s powerful computers could quickly find out how many people there were who mistakenly received a card where the first 3 digits refer to Connecticut instead of to Hawaii, .the state where they applied for their Social Security card.

  201. avatar
    misha August 24, 2011 at 12:22 am #

    john mirse: powerful computers could quickly find out how many people

    I’d like those powerful computers to find out how Glenn Beck got away with a heinous crime, since 1990.

  202. avatar
    Daniel August 24, 2011 at 1:12 am #

    john mirse: Remember, he who laughs last laughs best.

    And really John… do you honestly think you’ll have the last laugh? Really?

    After three years of complete and utter failure….

    After 85 plus court actions and not one success….

    After not one legal or Constitutional expert will agree with you.

    After Congress Unanimously certified the election and eligibility…

    After all that fail… do you really, really still believe you will have the last laugh?

    Really?

    I feel so very, very sorry for you.

  203. avatar
    Daniel August 24, 2011 at 1:17 am #

    john mirse: Social Security could easily program its powerful computers to find out how many people there were who applied for a Social Security card in Hawaii but whose first 3 digits point to Connecticut.

    If there are any such people—you say that you know of at least one—I would think that Social Security’s powerful computers could quickly find out how many people there were who mistakenly received a card where the first 3 digits refer to Connecticut instead of to Hawaii, .the state where they applied for their Social Security card.

    1. Why would SSN waste computer time for something as irrelevant as that? REally, nobody cares.

    2. Lean how to use the quote button. It’s right there on every post. If you cannot do something as simple as hit a quote link, how do you expect people to take you seriously when you comment on teh law. We don’t… but you seem to expect us to.

  204. avatar
    richCares August 24, 2011 at 1:41 am #

    mirse, you forgot that Hawaii certified and verified Obama’s Hawaiian birth
    o I must dirro “I feel so very, very sorry for you.”

  205. avatar
    richCares August 24, 2011 at 1:43 am #

    mirse, you also forgot that Hawaii certified and verified Obama’s Hawaiian birth
    So I must ditto “I feel so very, very sorry for you.”

  206. avatar
    john mirse August 24, 2011 at 2:18 am #

    Hawaiiborn wrote: Obama can’t. What part of SSA documents are private as long as they are alive do you have a hard time understanding? Obama could beg and plead, but the SSA will NOT provide that information or documentation for the public to see.

    And most of that “basic” information is considered PRIVATE information. Sorry
    *******
    I found the following information at the Social Security site. It looks like a person can order a copy of his original application for a fee.

    You don’t have to be dead to order a copy of your application, because, obviously, a dead person can’t order a copy of his own application.

    This means that if President Obama wants to order a copy of his original application in order to show it to the public, he can easily do it, because he is not blocked from doing so by state laws like Hawaii privacy laws:

    Fees For Processing Requests For Individual’s Social Security Record

    $27

    Request for copy of Original Application for Social Security Card (Form SS-5), SSN Provided (Printout from microfilm)

    $29

    Request for copy of Original Application for Social Security Card (Form SS-5), SSN Not Provided (Printout from microfilm)

  207. avatar
    Rickey August 24, 2011 at 2:40 am #

    john mirse:

    Social Security could easily program its powerful computers to find out how many people there were who applied for a Social Security card in Hawaii but whose first 3 digits point to Connecticut.

    That comment demonstrates that your ignorance of computer programming rivals your ignorance of how the Social Security Administration works.

    The only way to get that information would be to retrieve the SS-5s of every person who has received a SSN with a Connecticut prefix in the past 50 years and see how many of those SS-5s show Hawaii Zip Codes. Do you really believe that in the sixties and seventies the SSA was scanning SS-5s in such a way that they can be read automatically? I have ordered quite a few SS-5s of deceased individuals over the years, and every one was copied from microfilm or microfiche.

    And why would the SSA go to the time and expense involved, when the SSA’s official stance is that “one should not make too much of the geographical code”? Nobody cares about this except people who are afflicted with Obama Derangement Syndrome.

  208. avatar
    john mirse August 24, 2011 at 2:44 am #

    Daniel wrote: And really John… do you honestly think you’ll have the last laugh? Really?

    After three years of complete and utter failure….
    *******
    Election day Nov. 2010: Well, if voters vote against Obama policies on election day Nov. 2012 the way they voted on election day Nov. 2010, I say presidential candidate Obama is in deep and serious trouble.

    Failure? I would call election day Nov. 2010 a resounding victory for our side and a total disaster for the Obama side.

    Election day Nov. 2012: I say bring it on and let’s see if Obama and his followers have the last laugh or not, because a lot of Jews, independents, and white men who voted for Obama the first time won’t be voting for Obama this second time around.

    And if presidential candidate Obama loses states like Ohio, Florida, and Virginia this second time around, Obama is toast, and back to Chicago he goes.

  209. avatar
    keith August 24, 2011 at 2:44 am #

    richCares:
    Mischa says “If Perry become president, we’ll bring back the 10 Plagues”
    .
    you forgot to mention Bachmann’s pledge, $2.00 gas plus all earthquakes limited to magnitude of 2.0 or less. A vote for Bachmann is a vote for smaller quakes and cheaper gas, support Bachmann, she needs support as that dunce cap is very heavy

    I’ll put a chicken in every pot. Or pot in every chicken. Or something.

    Vote for Me!

  210. avatar
    vma224 August 24, 2011 at 2:47 am #

    many birthers like mirse are stuck on orly’s SSN hang up, what do they expect find on the SS-5? What a silly hang-up. they have to have Obama born elsewhere, why? That is a mental illness. if you don’t like Obama, don’t vote for him, we can respect that but birthering is really silly but go ahead play the fool.

  211. avatar
    richCares August 24, 2011 at 2:53 am #

    Sorry about my messed up post (with dirro), my keyboard crashed, I spilled coffee on it while laughing at mirse’s post. all t’s became r’s

  212. avatar
    misha August 24, 2011 at 3:34 am #

    keith: I’ll put a chicken in every pot. Or pot in every chicken. Or something.

    I’ll put pot in every brownie.

  213. avatar
    misha August 24, 2011 at 3:40 am #

    richCares: my keyboard crashed…all t’s became r’s

    My keyboard once crashed, and every ‘e’ became an ‘o’ – in fact it’s starting right now. I was writing about the UK, and this happened:

    ‘The quoon is at homo.’

  214. avatar
    sfjeff August 24, 2011 at 4:06 am #

    And not one person who switches their vote, will be doing so because of Birther speculation, innuendo and lies.

    If you haven’t noticed, there is a pretty impressive recession going on. Voters are concerned about jobs, and their retirement, and jobs for their kids, and perhaps government spending.

    I fully expect that if the economy is not greatly improved by the 2012 election, Obama will not get re-elected. And it will be about the economy, stupid. Not Birther’s mania. Voters will not be demanding Obama- or the Republican candidate publish their college transcripts or kindergarten fingerpainting scores, nor will they be asking Obama or the Republican candidate to produce additional birth certificates.

    Of course, if the Republicans really screw the pooch and nominate a far right religious conservative, like Bachmann, those independents and ‘Jews’ who voted for Obama will still vote for Obama. Swing voters who voted for Obama will be looking for an excuse to vote for someone else- they won’t be voting for a right wing radical.

    Oh and by the way- if Obama does lose- I will make another prediction- the Republican candidate will not mention birthers- and will not have produced any of the ‘evidence’ Birthers claim is required of President Obama.

    john mirse: Daniel wrote: And really John… do you honestly think you’ll have the last laugh? Really?After three years of complete and utter failure….*******Election day Nov. 2010: Well, if voters vote against Obama policies on election day Nov. 2012 the way they voted on election day Nov. 2010, I say presidential candidate Obama is in deep and serious trouble. Failure? I would call election day Nov. 2010 a resounding victory for our side and a total disaster for the Obama side. Election day Nov. 2012: I say bring it on and let’s see if Obama and his followers have the last laugh or not, because a lot of Jews, independents, and white men who voted for Obama the first time won’t be voting for Obama this second time around. And if presidential candidate Obama loses states like Ohio, Florida, and Virginia this second time around, Obama is toast, and back to Chicago he goes.

  215. avatar
    misha August 24, 2011 at 4:06 am #

    richCares: you forgot to mention Bachmann’s pledge, $2.00 gas

    What Michele Bachmann would have to do to deliver on her $2/gallon gasoline pledge
    Yes, it could potentially be done — but wait until you see what the cost of doing it would be

    It has been a week since Congresswoman Michele Bachmann told the country that she would bring gasoline prices down to under $2 per gallon if she were president.

    Michele Bachmann, as president of the United States, could keep her promise of lowering the price of gasoline. What voters must ask themselves is: “What will that cost me?”

    Read on: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/08/23/bachmann_gas_prices

  216. avatar
    misha August 24, 2011 at 4:10 am #

    sfjeff: those independents and ‘Jews’ who voted for Obama will still vote for Obama.

    I can assure you, Perry will not get 78% of the Jewish vote, as Obama did.

  217. avatar
    Whatever4 August 24, 2011 at 5:01 am #

    john mirse:

    Social Security could easily program its powerful computers to find out how many people there were who applied for a Social Security card in Hawaii but whose first 3 digits point to Connecticut.

    Why on earth should the experiment be limited to that particular combination? The hypothesis is that the SS number can be “misassigned” due to a keypunch error and might not be caught and corrected in the process. Hawaii –> CT isn’t the only possibility. Errors exist, there is no process or need to ensure a 100% compliance, and people have come forth with examples of the same error (geo code doesn’t match receiving zip code). If SD never gets mixed with MT, that doesn’t disprove the theory. Multiple combinations exist therefore the theory makes sense.

  218. avatar
    Keith August 24, 2011 at 5:58 am #

    misha: I’ll put pot in every brownie.

    You are welcome to come to my place for Thanksgiving.

  219. avatar
    Keith August 24, 2011 at 6:04 am #

    sfjeff: If you haven’t noticed, there is a pretty impressive recession going on. Voters are concerned about jobs, and their retirement, and jobs for their kids, and perhaps government spending.

    I am actually quite impressed with the fact that the recession didn’t turn into a depression. I really don’t think the Bush part of the stimulus can be credited with that, because it just went directly into the pockets of the worst of the Wall Street bastards that drove the issue in the first place. Obama’s stimulus actually kept people in jobs.

    I did predict at the ‘beginning’ of the GFC meltdown that the Australian resources boom would see Oz over the worst of it and that the US would take at least 4 years to recover. I’m only half happy to be completely right on that one.

  220. avatar
    roadburner August 24, 2011 at 7:17 am #

    john mirse: Thanks for the kind words. But come election day Nov. 2012—especially if Obama does not talk about his Connecticut Social Security number, if Obama doesn’t allow Kapiolani to release his Aug. 4, 1961 hospital records, if Obama doesn’t release his Occidental and Columbia records, and if Obama won’t allow the public to examine his original long form birth certificate in the Hawaii archives—-we will see who has the last laugh on election night.

    if he loses the 2012 election, fine, that´s the same democratic choice made by the same people who democraticlly elected him in the first place. having said that, to the vast majority of rational thinking people the claims made by the birthers are pretty much irrelevent and don´t even register on their radar. they are mostly concerned with how the country is being run. this could be his stubling block. there are presidents who come into office at the time that is right for the type of person they are. unfortunately, this was a bad time for obie to be elected.

    elections are won and lost by how the country is running under a certain figurehead, and birther conspiracies just don´t influence this.

  221. avatar
    roadburner August 24, 2011 at 7:19 am #

    john mirse: Election day Nov. 2012: I say bring it on and let’s see if Obama and his followers have the last laugh or not, because a lot of Jews, independents, and white men who voted for Obama the first time won’t be voting for Obama this second time around. .

    IMO, this is your most revealing post to date

  222. avatar
    Northland10 August 24, 2011 at 7:28 am #

    john mirse: I would call election day Nov. 2010 a resounding victory for our side and a total disaster for the Obama side.

    It was a partial victory for the Republican side (they did not capture the Senate), but definitely not a victory for the birther side. The election then and the one in 2012 will be determined by one main factor. To quote a former President’s campaign:

    “It’s the economy, stupid.”

    “Your side” is insignificant. The only effect you will have is in hurting real conservatives. Does Soros pay well for that?

  223. avatar
    Majority Will August 24, 2011 at 7:29 am #

    john mirse: This means that if President Obama wants to order a copy of his original application in order to show it to the public, he can easily do it

    It means no one cares but a handful of mentally challenged bigots with more spare time than common sense.

    Idiot.

  224. avatar
    john mirse August 24, 2011 at 7:46 am #

    Misha wrote: I can assure you, Perry will not get 78% of the Jewish vote, as Obama did.
    *********
    But if Obama loses Florida because a majority of Jews, white men, and independents vote for the Republican whoever he/she is, then Obama is in big trouble in Florida.

    If Obama gets 50% or less of the Jewish vote in Florida on election day Nov. 2012, then I say Obama won’t win Florida, and as swing state Florida goes, so may the rest of the nation: The nation will vote for a new President.

    And if Obama also loses Ohio—where Obama’s popularity is on shaky ground right now— and Virginia with its successful Republican governor on election day Nov. 2012, then Obama will be in big, big trouble nationally on election day Nov. 2012.

  225. avatar
    Majority Will August 24, 2011 at 8:29 am #

    john mirse:
    Misha wrote:I can assure you, Perry will not get 78% of the Jewish vote, as Obama did.
    *********
    But if Obama loses Florida because a majority of Jews, white men, and independents vote for the Republican whoever he/she is, then Obama is in big trouble in Florida.

    If Obama gets50% or less of the Jewish vote in Florida on electionday Nov. 2012,then I say Obamawon’t win Florida, and as swing state Florida goes, so may the rest of the nation: The nation will votefor a new President.

    And ifObama alsoloses Ohio—where Obama’s popularityis on shaky ground right now— and Virginia with its successful Republican governor on election day Nov. 2012, then Obama will be in big, bigtrouble nationally onelection day Nov. 2012.

    If I need thoughtful, reality based political opinions, I wouldn’t listen to a pig.

    But thanks for finally admitting you were wrong about the President’s eligibility even if it was in a cowardly manner.

  226. avatar
    G August 24, 2011 at 8:34 am #

    If those scenarios come to pass, as others said, Birtherism will have nothing to do with it. It will be dissatisfaction with the economy. Under such a scenario, no politician will mention any birtherism nonsense or look into any of your kooky claims. The issue would just dissapear and I doubt even you’d be ranting for follow-up.

    I suspect you realize that birtherism is just a sham smear yourself. All you really care about is Obama not being President. At some primal level, you simply couldn’t accept the reality of his election and can’t handle a world where he can even be elected. You’ll blab any nonsense about him merely because of your own petty emotions. You have no integrity.

    john mirse: Misha wrote: I can assure you, Perry will not get 78% of the Jewish vote, as Obama did.*********But if Obama loses Florida because a majority of Jews, white men, and independents vote for the Republican whoever he/she is, then Obama is in big trouble in Florida. If Obama gets 50% or less of the Jewish vote in Florida on election day Nov. 2012, then I say Obama won’t win Florida, and as swing state Florida goes, so may the rest of the nation: The nation will vote for a new President. And if Obama also loses Ohio—where Obama’s popularity is on shaky ground right now— and Virginia with its successful Republican governor on election day Nov. 2012, then Obama will be in big, big trouble nationally on election day Nov. 2012.

  227. avatar
    Scientist August 24, 2011 at 8:53 am #

    Listen john, you mealy-mouthed wimp, answer the question, because I will keep repeating it untii you do- What are the SSNs of the various Republican challengers? Where are their SS-5s? Will you vote for them if they don’t release everything you demand of Obama?

  228. avatar
    Bovril August 24, 2011 at 8:55 am #

    Poor John and his prognostications on voting.

    Have you seen the current 7 dwarves who are currently vying for the GOP nomination..?

    One of the things the right has a habit of forgetting is that in addition to voting FOR someone, people will also, particularly if there is an extremist candidate vote AGAINST them even if they don’t especially support the candidate they vote for.

    I have a selection of issues that I feel the current incumbent has not addressed that could and should have been taken care of. In normal circumstances I would POSSIBLY vote against Obama as a “punishment”.

    Then I look at the range of outright crazies on the right and realize it will get a hell of a lot worse with them at the helm.

    Dominionists, bigots, Constitution shredders, Corporatists, the list goes on.

    The election is still their for Obama to lose but don’t be fooled, the alternative is a hell of a lot scarier and people know it.

  229. avatar
    roadburner August 24, 2011 at 9:39 am #

    Bovril: Poor John and his prognostications on voting.Have you seen the current 7 dwarves who are currently vying for the GOP nomination..?.

    this is something that i´ve been noticing more this time than the last election.

    from an outsiders point of view (as is my own), do you consider there was the possibility that the GOP effectively threw the last election with mc cain and caribou barbie, and that the same scenario is playing out now?

    the definately didn´t need to take over a stuffed economy after GWB took over, or they´d be in the same boat obie is in now (but without birthers 😀 ) as far as popularity is concerned, and seeing as things won´t be looking up worldwide for a while, do they really want to take over this time after promising their `change´?

    just a thought……

  230. avatar
    Lupin August 24, 2011 at 9:50 am #

    john mirse: And if Obama also loses Ohio—where Obama’s popularity is on shaky ground right now— and Virginia with its successful Republican governor on election day Nov. 2012, then Obama will be in big, big trouble nationally on election day Nov. 2012.

    That may well be correct. If you continue to roughly follow the parallel course of the old USSR, you’re due for a Yeltsin after the current Gorbachev. After that 70% of voters will be all to happy to embrace a Putin.

  231. avatar
    Judge Mental August 24, 2011 at 10:02 am #

    misha: My keyboard once crashed, and every e’ became an o’ – in fact it’s starting right now. I was writing about the UK, and this happened:The quoon is at homo.’

    Not really “all” of the e’s then lol?

  232. avatar
    Horus August 24, 2011 at 10:11 am #

    john mirse: Shouldn’t Hawaiian teenager Obama’s number have been 942-68-4425, where the first 3 digits refer to the state of Hawaii, even if the Postal Service put the wrong zip code 06826 that refers to Connecticut on the envelope, an envelope that had the correct Hawaii address of 1617 S. Beretania St., Honolulu, Hawaii, Apt. 1008?

    I was born in Minnesota and my SS# starts with 123, the prefix for New York.
    Explain that one mirse!

  233. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 24, 2011 at 10:30 am #

    john mirse: You better do some more research, because zip code 96826 is what is on Obama’s Selective Service form on the internet, and zip code 96826 is what you get when you do a search of Obama’s Honolulu address of 1617 S. Beretania St. at zip code sites on the internet
    It looks, according to one zip code site I looked at, that the address is an apartment building, because apartments are listed.
    Connecticut zip code 06826 does not exist?
    Hawaii zip code 96826 vs. Connecticut 06826: According to several internet zip code finder sites, Connecticut zip code 06826 does not exist.
    I could be mistaken, but you could check it out for yourself: Connecticut zip code 06826 is invalid, according to zip code sites on the internet.
    So, if Obama’s Social Security number was sent to Connecticut zip code 06826 instead of to Hawaii 96826, then there would be a problem, because 06826 doesn’t exist, and if it doesn’t exist today, then it probably didn’t exist back in the 1970s, nearly 40 years ago.

    Speaking of doing research. Back in 1977 the zipcode for the apartment wasn’t 96826. They actually have changed the zipcode since that time. In 1976 the zipcode was 96814. Here is a sectional map of Honolulu from the time period.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/46180494/Beretania-Zip-Code-1976

    1617 South Beretania Ave was 96814

  234. avatar
    Majority Will August 24, 2011 at 10:38 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Speaking of doing research.Back in 1977 the zipcode for the apartment wasn’t 96826.They actually have changed the zipcode since that time.In 1976 the zipcode was 96814.Here is a sectional map of Honolulu from the time period.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/46180494/Beretania-Zip-Code-1976

    1617 South Beretania Ave was 96814

    But in birther world, little m mirse is never wrong:

    “Apparently my research skills are better than yours if you believe that Obama’s Hawaii zip code in the 1970s was different than it is today.”

  235. avatar
    Majority Will August 24, 2011 at 10:42 am #

    roadburner: this is something that i´ve been noticing more this time than the last election.

    from an outsiders point of view (as is my own), do you consider there was the possibility that the GOP effectively threw the last election with mc cain and caribou barbie, and that the same scenario is playing out now?

    the definately didn´t need to take over a stuffed economy after GWB took over, or they´d be in the same boat obie is in now (but without birthers ) as far as popularity is concerned, and seeing as things won´t be looking up worldwide for a while, do they really want to take over this time after promising their `change´?

    just a thought……

    No, that would be a conspiracy theory. A McCain administration would have just blamed Clinton or Democrats in Congress.

  236. avatar
    Daniel August 24, 2011 at 10:52 am #

    Scientist:
    Listen john, you mealy-mouthed wimp, answer the question, because I will keep repeating it untii you do- What are the SSNs of the various Republican challengers?Where are their SS-5s?Will you vote for them if they don’t release everything you demand of Obama?

    Only if they happen to turn black before election day

  237. avatar
    Thrifty August 24, 2011 at 10:53 am #

    Rickey: Wow. Your derangement is worse than I imagined.Guess what? There is a person out there who has a SSN which is identical to mine. except that the last digit is one number lower. And there is another person out there who has a SSN which is identical to mine, except that the last digit is one number higher than mine. Is that an amazing coincidence? No, because the Social Security Administration uses all available numbers within a given sequence, from XXX-XX-0001 to XXX-XX-9999. Here is what the SSN Validator has to say about Obama’s SSN:Social Security Number: 042-68-4425Date of this report: August 23, 2011State of Issuance: ConnecticutApprox. Date of Issuance: 1976 And 1977Issuance Status: According to the Social Security Administration,this SSN has been issued.SSA Death Masterfile: No record as of 04-01-2011STATUS: THIS SSN HAS BEEN VALIDATED!Try it yourself:http://www.ssnvalidator.com/default.aspx

    That’s a pretty neat tool. I threw mine in there for fun. Uh… redacted in this repost of course.

    Social Security Number: XXX-XX-2056
    Date of this report: August 24, 2011
    State of Issuance: Delaware
    Approx. Date of Issuance: 1989 And 1992
    Issuance Status: According to the Social Security Administration,
    this SSN has been issued.
    SSA Death Masterfile: No record as of 04-01-2011
    STATUS: THIS SSN HAS BEEN VALIDATED!

    That’s odd. Approximate date of issuance 1989-1992? I was born in 1981. When was it that people had to start providing an SSN for their dependents on tax returns? I always assumed my SSN had been provided at birth, though I never used it until 1997 when I got my first driver’s license.

  238. avatar
    Thrifty August 24, 2011 at 11:37 am #

    john mirse: Hawaiiborn wrote: My sister has 4 numbers off of my own. Yes I know her SSN because of it. Its not unusual at all. If the applications were received at the same time, they would be processed in whatever order they came in and given subsequent numbers.*******I assume that the first 3 digits of your Social Security number and your sister’s number correctly refer to Hawaii and not Connecticut. Do you happen to know anyone who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii but ended up with a number where the first 3 digits are “042‘ , a number that refers to the state of Connecticut? Thanks.

    How is a Hawaii to Connecticut mixup special and unique? Hawaiiborn already stated his cousin is the recipient of a Hawaii to Oregon mixup. It’s the same thing but with a different state. Or do you propose that Hawaiiborn’s cousin is comitting SSN fraud?

  239. avatar
    roadburner August 24, 2011 at 11:49 am #

    Majority Will: No, that would be a conspiracy theory. A McCain administration would have just blamed Clinton or Democrats in Congress.

    good point

    but with the mc cain palin ticket last time, and the bunch they´re considering at the moment, i can´t help but wonder what the GOP is doing.

    i mean, haven´t they got anyone…..well, normal to put up?

    BTW – typo – i meant to say `after GWB´, not `after he took over.´ damn my lack of keyboard skills!

  240. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 24, 2011 at 12:42 pm #

    No you don’t.

    Rickey: My first three digits are 666. I’ve never known what to make of it.

  241. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 24, 2011 at 12:49 pm #

    I don’t know if they could or not. It would depend on what’s in their database from the 70’s. A wrong SSN series probably indicates the wrong state in the database, so they couldn’t tell what was right and what wasn’t.

    john mirse: Social Security could easily program its powerful computers to find out how many people there were who applied for a Social Security card in Hawaii but whose first 3 digits point to Connecticut.

  242. avatar
    Loren August 24, 2011 at 12:51 pm #

    Here’s the thing about Doc’s zip code theory: it’s just a theory. It may or may not in fact be the *correct* explanation for why Obama has an SSN associated with Connecticut, but it certainly explains the discrepancy thoroughly, and with minimal unnecessary assumptions. Occam’s Razor in action.

    Yet, it’s still a testable hypothesis in a way. When Doc first proposed it, he just noted the 0-9 association. Further scrutiny could have invalidated the hypothesis, but instead it’s validated it. We know now that Obama had a Honolulu address in 96814. And though there is no 06814 zip, we know that multiple people who share the first five digits of Obama’s SSN are associated with 06810 and 06811. We also know of other people, anecdotally at least, who have SSNs with prefixes unrelated to their actual home states.

    Doc’s theory isn’t proven, but it’s stood up to scrutiny so far. By contrast, what is the alternative explanation that john mirse would have us believe? I honestly can’t tell.

    It certainly appears that the number was created in 1977. It also appears that it was the number used on Obama’s Selective Service form in 1980. If you browse SSDI to look at other people with the same 5-digit prefix, you’ll see a lot of people born in the early 1960s.

    What’s the mirse-preferred explanation for this? To claim that teenage Obama couldn’t get a real SSN? Why wouldn’t he? Is it that the Selective Service form is fake (despite being authenticated), or that Obama changed SSNs at some point? Why would he want to change SSNs? And if he changed SSNs, then why would he go to the trouble of nailing down an appropriate year-range, but then choose a Connecticut prefix?

    Granted, some of that is calling for speculation, but then that’s all mirse’s position is based on: speculation and doubt. He hasn’t pitched an alternative explanation because it’s really hard to create one that supports his fraud conclusion but still makes any sense in the context of the other available information.

  243. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 24, 2011 at 12:56 pm #

    Loren there is a 06814 zip it references Danbury, CT. The issue is that the zip code for the apartment where his grandmother and grandfather lived was changed after the 70s to 96826 which 06826 doesn’t exist in CT. So the theory is still valid because at the time 96814 was the zip code and 06814 does exist in CT.

  244. avatar
    Loren August 24, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

    I’m not saying the theory’s not valid. As far as I know, the SSA just looked at the first three digits of a zip code, which represent the state.

    But there is no 06814 zip code on the zip code map. However, if you run it through the USPS zip code lookup, it does say “This is a UNIQUE ZIP Code used for a specific company or organization.” So perhaps I overstated.

  245. avatar
    Wile E. August 24, 2011 at 1:52 pm #

    Loren:
    I’m not saying the theory’s not valid.As far as I know, the SSA just looked at the first three digits of a zip code, which represent the state.

    But there is no 06814 zip code on the zip code map.However, if you run it through the USPS zip code lookup, it does say “This is a UNIQUE ZIP Code used for a specific company or organization.”So perhaps I overstated.

    Possibly just for the Danbury Municipal Airport?…
    http://connecticut.hometownlocator.com/zip-codes/data,zipcode,06814.cfm

  246. avatar
    Wile E. August 24, 2011 at 1:56 pm #

    Perhaps 06814 is just for the Danbury Municipal Airport?

    http://connecticut.hometownlocator.com/zip-codes/data,zipcode,06814.cfm

  247. avatar
    jayHG August 24, 2011 at 2:03 pm #

    john mirse: Hawaiiborn wrote: He could have received one with 575-576 or 750-751. The operative word is COULDMy cousin born in 1981 has a SSN for Oregon. She’s never lived there and has lived in Hawaii all of her life.the SSA says that the geo codes means nothing and it STILL means nothing. Its just a clerical filing number, can be assigned to anyone, no matter where they were born.********Presidential candidate Obama could clear up this controversy tomorrow by simply giving Social Security written permission to release a copy of his 1970s application to the public. A Social Security application form only asks very basic questions of the applicant. So why won’t presidential candidate Obama release a copy of his 1970s Social Security application tomorrow, or at least release it sometime during the 2012 presidential campaign, so that he can put this growing Social Security presidential campaign issue to rest.

    President Obama is not “presidential candidate Obama” you idiot. He’s the President of the United States and I wrote all that cause I know it ruins your day to read it, and that MAKES MY DAY!!

    Dumb a$$ birfer……

  248. avatar
    Thrifty August 24, 2011 at 2:04 pm #

    john mirse: Failure? I would call election day Nov. 2010 a resounding victory for our side and a total disaster for the Obama side.

    Well, your side blew the Senate elections in Nevada and Delaware, which could have easily gone to a Republcian challenger. Harry Reid’s popularity was tanking; it was the Republicans’ election to lose… and they lost it by putting up a terrible candidate. In Delaware, Republican Mike Castle was a mortal lock to beat Democrat Chris Coons, so naturally the Republicans nominated…. Christine O’Donnell who trailed by double digits immediately after the nomination and the gap widened by the election. Republicans managed to hang on to a Senate seat in Alaska… except the Tea Party backed guy was beaten by the incumbent’s write-in campaign.

    Your side definitely picked up a lot of momentum in the House, but you guys totally blew it for the Republicans and their chances of picking up the Senate. I’m thinking this is because Congressmen only have to campaign in a smaller section of the state, so the House is more friendly to idealogical extremes. Senators need to appeal to the entire state and a president needs to campaign to the entire nation. Your side has shown an amazing penchant for drumming up high turnout at primaries, nominating terrible candidates that make Democrats, Independents, and some more moderate Republicans retch. Doesn’t sound like much of a resounding victory to me. In fact, the President’s party losing seats in the first midterm election of his presidency is pretty common.

  249. avatar
    Thrifty August 24, 2011 at 2:11 pm #

    jayHG: President Obama is not “presidential candidate Obama” you idiot. He’s the President of the United States and I wrote all that cause I know it ruins your day to read it, and that MAKES MY DAY!!

    Well technically he is, since he’s running a presidential campaign for re-election.

  250. avatar
    jayHG August 24, 2011 at 2:14 pm #

    john mirse: Scientist wrote: Do you happen to know anyone who applied for his Social Security card in Hawaii but ended up with a number where the first 3 digits are “042‘ , a number that refers to the state of Connecticut? Thanks.I do. Are you happy now?*******Social Security could easily program its powerful computers to find out how many people there were who applied for a Social Security card in Hawaii but whose first 3 digits point to Connecticut. If there are any such people—you say that you know of at least one—I would think that Social Security’s powerful computers could quickly find out how many people there were who mistakenly received a card where the first 3 digits refer to Connecticut instead of to Hawaii, .the state where they applied for their Social Security card.

    Well John M., why don’t you call SS and ask them to use those “powerful computers” to do that for you??? Good Lord you sound more loony with each successive post…….

  251. avatar
    Rickey August 24, 2011 at 2:18 pm #

    Loren:

    But there is no 06814 zip code on the zip code map.However, if you run it through the USPS zip code lookup, it does say “This is a UNIQUE ZIP Code used for a specific company or organization.”So perhaps I overstated.

    I lived in Danbury from 1975-1977. I’m pretty sure that the only residential Zip Code for Danbury at that time was 06810.

    However, a data entry clerk at the SSA would not have known that. In fact, if someone at SSA did enter the Zip Code as 06814, it is additional evidence that Doc’s theory is correct because nobody would have written 06814 on the SS-5.

    The invalid (or at least incorrect) Zip Code would not have precluded the issuance of the SSN with a Connecticut prefix. It also would not have prevented the Social Security card from being delivered to the Honolulu address. A postal clerk either would have looked up the correct Zip Code or would have crossed out the incorrect Zip Code and forwarded it to Honolulu without one.

    Lost in the shuffle here is the fact that in the mid-seventies most people had no knowledge of the SSA numbering system. My ex-wife never realized that she had a Pennsylvania SSN until I brought it to her attention. I am sure that when Obama received his card, he had no idea that the prefix signified Connecticut. Why would he? His mother’s SSN was issued with a Washington prefix; his grandfather’s was issued with a Kansas prefix; and his grandmother’s was issued with a California prefix. Obama probably went through life for years blissfully unaware of the fact that his SSN prefix signifies Connecticut.

  252. avatar
    Rickey August 24, 2011 at 2:20 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    No you don’t.

    You caught me there.

  253. avatar
    jayHG August 24, 2011 at 2:25 pm #

    Daniel: Only if they happen to turn black before election day

    funny………..and true!!

  254. avatar
    Wile E. August 24, 2011 at 2:29 pm #

    Loren:
    I’m not saying the theory’s not valid.As far as I know, the SSA just looked at the first three digits of a zip code, which represent the state.

    But there is no 06814 zip code on the zip code map.However, if you run it through the USPS zip code lookup, it does say “This is a UNIQUE ZIP Code used for a specific company or organization.”So perhaps I overstated.

    Perhaps it is a unique zip code for the Danbury Fair Mall near the airport…
    http://events.newstimes.com/danbury-ct/venues/show/967813-macys-danbury-fair-mall

    http://connecticut.hometownlocator.com/zip-codes/data,zipcode,06814.cfm

  255. avatar
    Rickey August 24, 2011 at 2:39 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross): Speaking of doing research.Back in 1977 the zipcode for the apartment wasn’t 96826.They actually have changed the zipcode since that time.In 1976 the zipcode was 96814.Here is a sectional map of Honolulu from the time period.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/46180494/Beretania-Zip-Code-1976

    1617 South Beretania Ave was 96814

    Well done. Another Mirse fail.

    Your research further validates what I found yesterday, namely that 96814 and 96826 are now adjacent neighborhoods. Addresses with Zip code 96814 a can be walked to in five minutes or less from Obama’s old address.

  256. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith August 24, 2011 at 3:05 pm #

    jayHG: funny………..and true!!

    Or better yet, if you yourself (jayHG) turn black!

  257. avatar
    aarrgghh August 24, 2011 at 4:24 pm #

    in short, in an effort to maintain its grip on a shrinking base of its most reliable voters, the gop has elevated discredited dogma over sound policy, proven science and good governance. those sounding the alarm and those unwilling to pay fealty have been branded rinos, apostates and traitors. their ongoing intellectual pogrom has reduced its membership to grifters, sideshow barkers, outright madmen and those still dumb enough or desperate enough to keep buying the kool-aid.

    despite their belated misgivings, the gop don’t have a “normal” candidate waiting in the wings, because they don’t have a “normal” (ie, sound) platform or “normal” (ie, sane) party faithful. there’s no “great gop hope” who can pitch their current platform, satisfy their base and still appear “normal”.

    roadburner:
    with the mc cain palin ticket last time, and the bunch they´re considering at the moment, i can´t help but wonder what the GOP is doing.

    i mean, haven´t they got anyone…..well, normal to put up?

  258. avatar
    john mirse August 24, 2011 at 5:05 pm #

    Thrifty wrote: Your side definitely picked up a lot of momentum in the House, but you guys totally blew it for the Republicans and their chances of picking up the Senate. I’m thinking this is because Congressmen only have to campaign in a smaller section of the state, so the House is more friendly to idealogical extremes. Senators need to appeal to the entire state and a president needs to campaign to the entire nation. Your side has shown an amazing penchant for drumming up high turnout at primaries, nominating terrible candidates that make Democrats, Independents, and some more moderate Republicans retch. Doesn’t sound like much of a resounding victory to me. In fact, the President’s party losing seats in the first midterm election of his presidency is pretty common.
    **********
    When Obama loses swing states Florida, Ohio, and Virginia come election day Nov. 2012—right now he is not doing too well in any of those states—we will see if Obama goes down to a resounding defeat or not on election day Nov. 2012.

    If Obama loses on election day Nov. 2012, and pro-Obama supporters continue to say that birthers and Tea Party people had nothing to do with it, then I say that those people will be in a state of sad denial.

    Losing seats in mid-term elections may be common for the party that holds the Presidency, , but Obama’s Democratic Party lost an unusual large number of seats in state legislators, lost key U.S. Senate seats in an almost previously fillibuster-proof senate, and lost seats in the House in history making numbers. Such terrible loses can only be called a disaster for the Democratic Party by any objective observer.

    If you believe that the Democrat’s Party 2010 mid-term elections disaster was just one of your every day common mid-term election adjustments following a presidential election,
    then, again, you and other pro-Obama supporters are in serious denial.

    And if you think that the Obama disaster of Nov. 2010 will have no fallout or effect whatsoever on election day Nov. 2012, then again, you are fooling yourself.

    Again, if Obama continues to do poorly in Florida, Ohio, and Virginia between now and election day Nov. 2012, and Obama ends up losing those states come election day Nov. 2012, then there will be no doubt that Obama will be in serious trouble in the rest of the country on election day Nov. 2012.

    If you don’t think so, then you are fooling yourself.

  259. avatar
    Stanislaw August 24, 2011 at 5:11 pm #

    aarrgghh:
    in short, in an effort to maintain its grip on a shrinking base of its most reliable voters, the gop has elevated discredited dogma over sound policy, proven science and good governance. those sounding the alarm and those unwilling to pay fealty have been branded rinos, apostates and traitors. their ongoing intellectual pogrom has reduced its membership to grifters, sideshow barkers, outright madmen and those still dumb enough or desperate enough to keep buying the kool-aid.

    despite their belated misgivings, the gop don’t have a “normal” candidate waiting in the wings, because they don’t have a “normal” (ie, sound) platform or “normal” (ie, sane) party faithful. there’s no “great gop hope” who can pitch their current platform, satisfy their base and still appear “normal”.

    Well, I’m not sure I’d go quite that far. Jon Huntsman is actually calling out the extremists in his party so there may be some hope yet. Not much hope, but some.

  260. avatar
    Scientist August 24, 2011 at 5:29 pm #

    john mirse: If you believe that the Democrat’s Party 2010 mid-term elections disaster was just one of your every day common mid-term election adjustments following a presidential election,
    then, again, you and other pro-Obama supporters are in serious denial.

    I’m going to keep at you, because, as hard-headed as you are I am 100x. Why would Obama lose to opponents whose SSNs are unknown? Where is Perry’s SS-5? Where is a photo of Bachmann playing Little League? Where is Romney’s biirth certificate?

    Answer the questions!!!!

  261. avatar
    Thrifty August 24, 2011 at 5:40 pm #

    john mirse: If Obama loses on election day Nov. 2012, and pro-Obama supporters continue to say that birthers and Tea Party people had nothing to do with it, then I say that those people will be in a state of sad denial.

    Because the Tea Party people wouldn’t. HINT: The Tea Party is one voting block, and not a sizeable enough majority to carry a national election. Tea Party darlings like Bachman, Perry, and Palin poll terribly against Barack Obama. It’s closer against a generic Republican contender.

    No, the Tea Party has a vastly overinflated sense of self importance. Sure enough, you can dominate in some conservative districts and primaries, but when you have to appeal to a idealogically diverse nation, or for that matter a less conservative state, you fall flat on your asses.

    john mirse If you believe that the Democrat’s Party 2010 mid-term elections disaster was just one of your every day common mid-term election adjustments following a presidential election,
    then, again, you and other pro-Obama supporters are in serious denial.

    And if you believe that you guys did better than 1994, when you took BOTH chambers in Congress, and didn’t totally screw it up by running unelectable candidates, you are in serious denial.

  262. avatar
    Scientist August 24, 2011 at 5:43 pm #

    All the birthers will end up voting for Obama because he is the ONLY candidate to release a long form birth certificate. He is also the ONLY candidate whose SSN is publlic.

  263. avatar
    aarrgghh August 24, 2011 at 5:46 pm #

    no, not much hope at all — via today’s daily kos:

    rick perry: 33
    mitt romney: 20
    michele bachmann: 16
    newt gingrich: 8
    herman cain: 6
    ron paul: 6
    rick santorum: 4
    someone else/not sure: 5
    jon huntsman: 3

    jon huntsman was the only candidate surveyed with a net negative approval rating. he clocked in with a -8 mark. shockingly, it turns out republicans really don’t like candidates who attack their party and its whacko orthodoxy.

    Stanislaw: Well, I’m not sure I’d go quite that far. Jon Huntsman is actually calling out the extremists in his party so there may be some hope yet. Not much hope, but some.

  264. avatar
    john mirse August 24, 2011 at 5:48 pm #

    Scientist wrote: ’m going to keep at you, because, as hard-headed as you are I am 100x. Why would Obama lose to opponents whose SSNs are unknown? Where is Perry’s SS-5? Where is a photo of Bachmann playing Little League? Where is Romney’s biirth certificate?

    Answer the questions!!!!
    *******
    You are confused. If you want to challenge Republican candidates concerning their Social Security information or whether or not they played Little League, then it is up to you to ask them, not me.
    If anyone is hard-headed here, it is you, because you don’t have the courage to challenge Republican candidates yourself. You want someone else like me to do your dirty work for you.

    And I’m going to keep at you too: When are you going to admit to the world that the Beck rape accusation in 2009 was not true, because it was a joke, a parody, a satire by a person on the internet?

    Any casual researcher on the web looking up “Beck rape” would learn immediately that the rape accusation was a fake, a joke, a parody, a satire back 2009.

    You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading the false rumor on the internet that Beck raped a young girl back in 1990, when you know it isn’t true, or you could do a quick search on google and find out that it wasn’t true. Shame on you.

  265. avatar
    aarrgghh August 24, 2011 at 5:48 pm #

    that may be too much intellectual consistency for most birfers to handle …

    Scientist:
    All the birthers will end up voting for Obama because he is the ONLY candidate to release a long form birth certificate.He is also the ONLY candidate whose SSN is publlic.

  266. avatar
    Scientist August 24, 2011 at 5:54 pm #

    john mirse: If anyone is hard-headed here, it is you, because you don’t have the courage to challenge Republican candidates yourself.

    I AM challenging them!!! So far, they have ducked all questions, unlike the President who has released far more infofmation than any of his challengers, Mitt, Rick, Michelle, cough it up.

    As for you, you should demand the same from ALL candidates. Since you refuse to, you are a hypocrite.

    john mirse: You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading the false rumor on the internet that Beck raped a young girl back in 1990, when you know it isn’t true, or you could do a quick search on google and find out that it wasn’t true. Shame on you.

    You are obviously coonfused. Review my posts. I have never mentioned Glen Beck ever. I don’t even know who Glen Beck is. Can you tell me who this person is?

  267. avatar
    Daniel August 24, 2011 at 6:17 pm #

    The Beckbots have been paid to make sure they convince people it was a hoax. The mainstream media is covering it up for Beck to avoid embarrassing him. Beck is actually a Muslim extremist bent on establishing Sharia law in the Fox news coffee room.

  268. avatar
    Majority Will August 24, 2011 at 6:21 pm #

    john mirse: Any casual researcher on the web looking up “Beck rape” would learn immediately that the rape accusation was a fake, a joke, a parody, a satire back 2009.

    You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading the false rumor on the internet that Beck raped a young girl back in 1990, when you know it isn’t true, or you could do a quick search on google and find out that it wasn’t true. Shame on you.

    Like you, the idiot who fell for the Occidental College April Fool’s Joke* but are too much of a coward and hypocrite to admit it?

    *(http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2748631/posts?page=65#65)

    Birthers are such idiots.

  269. avatar
    Loren August 24, 2011 at 6:23 pm #

    john mirse:
    Any casual researcher on the web looking up “Beck rape” would learn immediatelythat the rape accusation was a fake, a joke, a parody, a satire back 2009.

    You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading the false rumor on the internet that Beck raped a young girl back in 1990, when you know it isn’t true, or you could do a quick search on google and find out that it wasn’t true.Shame on you.

    Pot. Kettle.

  270. avatar
    Majority Will August 24, 2011 at 6:24 pm #

    john mirse: You are confused.

    You are projecting.

  271. avatar
    Scientist August 24, 2011 at 6:25 pm #

    john mirse-What is Rick Perry’s SSN? Can you assure us that it is not associated with Nebraska, even though he claims to have lived in Texas his entire life?

  272. avatar
    JoZeppy August 24, 2011 at 6:31 pm #

    john mirse: If Obama loses on election day Nov. 2012, and pro-Obama supporters continue to say that birthers and Tea Party people had nothing to do with it, then I say that those people will be in a state of sad denial.

    Birther certainly would have nothing to do with it. Can you show a single poll where people even care about the issue? Of course not. The only extent the Tea Party would have anything to do with it is that the congressmen elected by the Tea Party would rather the country fail then allow any initiative the President proposes pass…even when it is something they should agree in theory (i.e. extention of the temorary payroll tax reduction), even at the cost of the country (allowing the country to default). So to the extent that the independents would vote against President Obama due to poor economic conditions cause by gridlock resulting from Tea Party representatives, I’m willing to concede the Tea Party may have an impact on the President’s relection.

  273. avatar
    john mirse August 24, 2011 at 7:10 pm #

    Scientis wrote: john mirse-What is Rick Perry’s SSN? Can you assure us that it is not associated with Nebraska, even though he claims to have lived in Texas his entire life?
    ********
    You seem to have forgotten how our political system works.
    It works like this If a voter has questions about a candidate’s eligibility for office—especially if the candidate is in the opposing party— it is up to that voter himself to ask that candidate pointed questions.

    That is, it is ridiculous for you to ask me, or anyone else—- a person who may have no problems with the candidate that you have problems with— to ask my own candidate embarrassing or pointed questions for you.

    Again, if you have questions (1)about Gov. Perry’s Social Security number,(2) or if you wonder if he did or not play Little League, (3)or if you wonder why he does or doesn’t have a Nebraska Social Security number, then it is up to you to do your own research on Gov. Perry.

    It is not up to me to do research work that you should be doing yourself, because like the rest of us, it will be you who will vote for or against a candidate once you enter the voting booth alone come election day Nov. 2012. Google is your friend.

    Of course, if you are a coward and are too scared to challenge Gov. Perry yourself, or you are too lazy to do your own research on Gov. Perry yourself, then I would understand why you would need to ask someone like me to do your dirty work.

  274. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater (Bob Ross) August 24, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    john mirse: Any casual researcher on the web looking up “Beck rape” would learn immediately that the rape accusation was a fake, a joke, a parody, a satire back 2009.

    And any casual researcher on the web looking up Obama birth certificate would immediately learn there was nothing to the birther claims as far back as 2008.

  275. avatar
    Thrifty August 24, 2011 at 7:35 pm #

    john mirse: Of course, if you are a coward and are too scared to challenge Gov. Perry yourself, or you are too lazy to do your own research on Gov. Perry yourself, then I would understand why you would need to ask someone like me to do your dirty work.

    Actually, I believe that Scientist and the rest of the anti-birthers don’t research Rick Perry’s SSN or birth certificate or anything because we don’t actually care. When sane people attack a politician, we do it on the basis of their positions on the issues and their personality, not wild eyed conspiracy theories.

  276. avatar
    Thrifty August 24, 2011 at 7:37 pm #

    Furthermore John, you seem to be missing the point. You are applying stricter standards to Barack Obama than you are to Rick Perry. Why haven’t you done any research on Perry or asked to see his birth certificate?

  277. avatar
    Scientist August 24, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    john mirse: You seem to have forgotten how our political system works.
    It works like this If a voter has questions about a candidate’s eligibility for office—especially if the candidate is in the opposing party— it is up to that voter himself to ask that candidate pointed questions.

    So, your questions regarding Obama should be directed to Obama. Why are you posing them here and on other web sites?

    Of course, if you are a coward and are too scared to challenge Pres. Obama yourself, or you are too lazy to do your own research on Pres. Obama yourself, then I would understand why you would need to ask someone like me to do your dirty work.

  278. avatar
    Loren August 24, 2011 at 8:03 pm #

    One Birther site posted the first five digits of Maya’s SSN. Big surprise: it has a Hawaii prefix.

    Now Maya was unequivocally born in Indonesia, with an Indonesian father. But she was nonetheless able to legally obtain an SSN. The question for the Birthers, then, is if Maya could get an SSN, then why should there be any reason to believe that her older brother COULDN’T?

  279. avatar
    Scientist August 24, 2011 at 8:13 pm #

    john mirse: Again, if you have questions (1)about Gov. Perry’s Social Security number,(2) or if you wonder if he did or not play Little League, (3)or if you wonder why he does or doesn’t have a Nebraska Social Security number, then it is up to you to do your own research on Gov. Perry

    I have researched Rick Perry’s SSN and I found something startling. It’s hidden!! He refuses to release it!!! I wouldn’t be surprised if he has attorneys who would block me if I sued to get it. They would likely tell me it’s none of my business. He will likely spend millions on these attorneys before his campaign is over.. What is Rick Perry hiding?

    As for Little League, I couldn’t find any pictures of Rick Perry playing Little League. I suspect it’s because he has no birth certificate.

    So, I HAVE done research on Mr Perry and I must say, it’s quite shocking.

  280. avatar
    Keith August 24, 2011 at 8:26 pm #

    john mirse: It is not up to me to do research work that you should be doing yourself, because like the rest of us, it will be you who will vote for or against a candidate once you enter the voting booth alone come election day Nov. 2012. Google is your friend.

    So what you are saying is that you ‘just believe’ that Perry is telling the whole truth. You ‘just believe’ he is trustworthy.

    Does that have anything to do with the fact that he appears to be white and is automatically more trustworthy than someone who does not appear to be black? What if somebody found out that he had a black great grandmother, would that trigger your doubt about his veracity and cause you to ask questions about every thing else he did?

    Or maybe it is because he gives loud and proud lip service to his religious beliefs that he describes as “Christian”. But what about when it is pointed out that Christ himself kicked the money changers out of the Temple and he openly embraces them? And what about Christ’s clearly and explicitly expressed opinion that the realms of Church and State are two different things (remember the “render unto Ceasar” line?). Doesn’t this pique your interest in digging into the substance of his holier than thou claims?

    No?

    Thought not.

  281. avatar
    Obsolete August 24, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    John Mirse-
    There is nothing WRONG with Obama having a SS number with a CT prefix.
    That is why nobody cares.

    Do you admit you fell for a joke and spread false info about the President of the United States? The proof is here for everyone to see. If you can admit you were wrong and apologize, people might take your other concerns more seriously.

    And why don’t you care about any other candidates SS numbers or birth certificates? Don’t you think Obama should be commended for being the only President ever to release his?

  282. avatar
    Thrifty August 24, 2011 at 8:57 pm #

    Hmm. Rick Perry has a double digit lead over Mitt Romney among Republican primary voters.

    http://news.yahoo.com/perry-passes-romney-among-republicans-polls-211542788.html

    Yet Barack Obama has a 6.6 point lead over Rick Perry in the general election.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/president_obama_vs_republican_candidates.html

    And that’s without an actual campaign in which Obama has a chance to air Perry’s more extreme public statements.

    I’d kinda hate to be a Republican right about now.

  283. avatar
    Stanislaw August 24, 2011 at 8:58 pm #

    aarrgghh:
    no, not much hope at all — via today’s daily kos:

    Dammit.

  284. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 24, 2011 at 9:14 pm #

    Misha has been pimping this story for years. I never looked it up because from the context I figured it was satire. Satire is not a concept that birthers understand well.

    john mirse: You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading the false rumor on the internet that Beck raped a young girl back in 1990, when you know it isn’t true, or you could do a quick search on google and find out that it wasn’t true. Shame on you.

  285. avatar
    Rickey August 24, 2011 at 9:27 pm #

    john mirse:

    Any casual researcher on the web looking up “Beck rape” would learn immediatelythat the rape accusation was a fake, a joke, a parody, a satire back 2009.

    I did as you suggested, and Google led me to this site, which seems to be taking the charges seriously.

    http://www.thecontrarianmedia.com/2009/09/did-glenn-beck-rape-and-murder-a-young-girl-in-1990/

    Glenn Beck could quickly and easily put this whole story to rest by simply coming out and denying that he raped and murdered a young girl in 1990. And, considering that he’s becoming an increasingly powerful political figure, wouldn’t it be only responsible to answer these allegations?

    Thanks for the tip! And to think that all this time I thought that Misha was joking. Silly me.

  286. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 24, 2011 at 9:39 pm #

    I’ve written SSN validation code for data editing purposes, and the 666 series is excluded from issuance. 111111111, 222222222, etc aren’t issued, nor is 123456789. There are also some “sample SSN” values that are valid in form, but not issued.

    Rickey: You caught me there.

  287. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 24, 2011 at 9:45 pm #

    I don’t take credit for the idea. I think someone else suggested it in a comment.

    Loren: Yet, it’s still a testable hypothesis in a way. When Doc first proposed it, he just noted the 0-9 association.

  288. avatar
    Rickey August 24, 2011 at 9:56 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I’ve written SSN validation code for data editing purposes, and the 666 series is excluded from issuance. 111111111, 222222222, etc aren’t issued, nor is 123456789. There are also some “sample SSN” values that are valid in form, but not issued.

    I threw that out there to irritate Mirse. He took the bait and told me that I will spend the afterlife in Hell.

  289. avatar
    john mirse August 24, 2011 at 11:55 pm #

    Scientist wrote: You are obviously coonfused. Review my posts. I have never mentioned Glen Beck ever. I don’t even know who Glen Beck is. Can you tell me who this person is?
    **********
    I apologize. I confused you with poster Misha.

    A few minutes after I posted my message to you, I I remembered that it was Misha who posted about Beck.
    Beck is a former Fox tv personality who is still on the radio daily I believe. I believe he is a conservative. I haven’t watched or listened to him in months, so I don’t know what he has been talking about lately on his daily morning radio show.

    Again, I apologize for the mix-up. ,mirse

  290. avatar
    john mirse August 25, 2011 at 12:06 am #

    Rickey wrote: I threw that out there to irritate Mirse. He took the bait and told me that I will spend the afterlife in Hell.
    ********
    Yes, if a person has 666 stamped on his head or forehead, he is given the zip code number 666 by the postal service, because the postal service knows that he will be receiving his mail in a very hot place in the afterlife if the number 666, the mark of the beast, is stamped on his head.

    But you don’t have to worry Rickey, because I have been praying for you. I even arranged to have 72 virgins waiting for you when you enter paradise.

  291. avatar
    richCares August 25, 2011 at 12:15 am #

    “have 72 virgins waiting for you”
    just a reminder, the soul has no sex organs

  292. avatar
    misha August 25, 2011 at 12:20 am #

    john mirse: Beck is a former Fox tv personality…I believe he is a conservative.

    I believe Beck is a rapist and murderer. He never denied it. Just like Ann Coulter never denied having an abortion at Planned Parenthood.

  293. avatar
    misha August 25, 2011 at 12:23 am #

    john mirse: a very hot place in the afterlife

    According to the Church Of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, the afterlife is air conditioned.

  294. avatar
    misha August 25, 2011 at 12:33 am #

    richCares: just a reminder, the soul has no sex organs

    Yes, but the Flying Spaghetti Monster has balls.

  295. avatar
    Majority Will August 25, 2011 at 1:26 am #

    john mirse: But you don’t have to worry Rickey, because I have been praying for you. I even arranged to have 72 virgins waiting for you when you enter paradise.

    Is there any connection between the virgins in Islam and the virgin birth in Christianity other than divine creation?

  296. avatar
    Majority Will August 25, 2011 at 1:32 am #

    Majority Will: Is there any connection between the virgins in Islam and the virgin birth in Christianity other than divine creation?

    P.S. And I remember reading that Abraham is a common connection within Islam, Judaism and Christianity as well.

    You must have a lot of knowledge on the subject?

    (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2766905/replies?c=4)

  297. avatar
    john mirse August 25, 2011 at 1:47 am #

    Rich Cares wrote: “have 72 virgins waiting for you”
    just a reminder, the soul has no sex organs
    *******
    I agree with you, so I don’t understand why so many Muslim young
    men turn themselves into suicide bombers because they have been guaranteed
    that there are 72 virgins waiting for them in paradise. Sad. Very sad.

  298. avatar
    J. Potter August 25, 2011 at 2:06 am #

    @John Mirse
    “Beck is a former Fox tv personality who is still on the radio daily I believe.”

    The depth of knowledge betrayed! Much like Donny, like a child who wanders into the middle of a conspiracy and latches onto the first truth he comes across. The one fitting his preferred reality.

    Scientist was pulling your leg for having left a ‘n’ off of “Glenn”. Beck has been around for 25+ years on radio and arrived at FOX from Headline News. That so many invested so much in him so quickly after he “appeared from nowhere” on FOX belies the depth of isolation that audience elects to enjoy. The sandman shakes the mental etch-a-sketch every night.

    For anyone enjoying a range of information channels, and who has a functional long-term memory, Beck was and is epic tragicomedy.

  299. avatar
    Daniel August 25, 2011 at 2:08 am #

    Hey John;

    If you’re not smart enough to figure out how to use the “quote” link, how can you expect us to take anything you have to say about the Constitution or SSN administration very seriously?

  300. avatar
    Northland10 August 25, 2011 at 7:38 am #

    Majority Will: P.S. And I remember reading that Abraham is a common connection within Islam, Judaism and Christianity as well.

    You must have a lot of knowledge on the subject?

    (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2766905/replies?c=4)

    I could not help noticing the comment following Mirse on FR: “Muslims have an obsession with sex.” Well, apparently, so does the GOP (Vitter, Foley, Hinkle, Craig, Stanford, Ensign, et al).

  301. avatar
    Scientist August 25, 2011 at 8:28 am #

    john mirse: I apologize. I confused you with poster Misha

    I accept your apology regarding Beck. However, you still owe me and everyone else an apology for your hypocracy. You came here posing a bunch of “questions” regarding the President, including why he has a particular SSN-as though any of us chooses our SSN- and whether or not he played Little League. Are these serious and important questions regarding a President?

    If they are, then we should ALL (yourself included) demand that EVERYONE running for the office disclose their SSN, explain the # given then and discuss their Little League activities and, if they didn’t play, explain why. Or, we should all agree they are trivial matters and waste no further time on them.

    However, to demand that the President address these issues and not demand the same of all his challengers,, which is your position, is hypocritiical and a gross violation of all rules of fairness and justice.

  302. avatar
    Scientist August 25, 2011 at 8:32 am #

    Northland10: I could not help noticing the comment following Mirse on FR: “Muslims have an obsession with sex.” Well, apparently, so does the GOP (Vitter, Foley, Hinkle, Craig, Stanford, Ensign, et al).

    In this regard I am thoroughly bipartisan (Cllinton, Weiner, Spitzer, Massa, et al) and ecumenical. Humans have an obsession with sex, and that’s a good thing, else the species would have died out millions of years ago

  303. avatar
    john mirse August 25, 2011 at 11:31 am #

    Northland 10:I could not help noticing the comment following Mirse on FR: “Muslims have an obsession with sex.” Well, apparently, so does the GOP (Vitter, Foley, Hinkle, Craig, Stanford, Ensign, et al).
    ********
    I don’t remember posting here that “Muslims have an obsession with sex.” Or, do you mean that I posted such a statement over at Free Republic?

    Could you show me where on this message board I made that statement, or, could you link me to my post at Free Republic where I made that statement so I can refresh my memory by reading the entire message again? Thanks.

  304. avatar
    Rickey August 25, 2011 at 11:53 am #

    john mirse:

    But you don’t have to worry Rickey, because I have been praying for you.I even arranged to have 72 virgins waiting for you when you enter paradise.

    What makes you think that I have any interest in virgins?

  305. avatar
    Rickey August 25, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    john mirse:
    Northland 10:I could not help noticing the comment following Mirse on FR: “Muslims have an obsession with sex.” Well, apparently, so does the GOP (Vitter, Foley, Hinkle, Craig, Stanford, Ensign, et al).
    ********
    I don’t remember posting here that “Muslims have an obsession with sex.”Or, do you mean that I posted such a statement over at Free Republic?

    Could you show mewhere on this message board I made that statement, or,could youlink me to my post at Free Republic where I made that statement so I can refresh my memory by readingthe entire message again? Thanks.

    Northland10 never said that they are your words. He is referring to “the comment following Mirse on FR.” Click on the link he provided. It’s right there.

  306. avatar
    Wile E August 25, 2011 at 12:02 pm #

    john mirse:
    I don’t remember posting here that “Muslims have an obsession with sex.”Or, do you mean that I posted such a statement over at Free Republic?

    Could you show mewhere on this message board I made that statement, or,could youlink me to my post at Free Republic where I made that statement so I can refresh my memory by readingthe entire message again? Thanks.

    Could you show me where anyone has claimed that you made such a statement? Thanks.

  307. avatar
    aarrgghh August 25, 2011 at 12:08 pm #

    my point was made earlier on but this snippet of richard dawkins’ “attention gov perry: evolution is a fact” in this week’s washington post bears repeating:

    “There is nothing unusual about Governor Rick Perry. Uneducated fools can be found in every country and every period of history, and they are not unknown in high office. What is unusual about today’s Republican party (I disavow the ridiculous GOP’ nickname, because the party of Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt has lately forfeited all claim to be considered ‘grand’) is this: In any other party and in any other country, an individual may occasionally rise to the top in spite of being an uneducated ignoramus. In today’s Republican Party in spite of’ is not the phrase we need. Ignorance and lack of education are positive qualifications, bordering on obligatory. Intellect, knowledge and linguistic mastery are mistrusted by Republican voters, who, when choosing a president, would apparently prefer someone like themselves over someone actually qualified for the job.

    Any other organization — a big corporation, say, or a university, or a learned society – -when seeking a new leader, will go to immense trouble over the choice. The CVs of candidates and their portfolios of relevant experience are meticulously scrutinized, their publications are read by a learned committee, references are taken up and scrupulously discussed, the candidates are subjected to rigorous interviews and vetting procedures. Mistakes are still made, but not through lack of serious effort.

    The population of the United States is more than 300 million and it includes some of the best and brightest that the human species has to offer, probably more so than any other country in the world. There is surely something wrong with a system for choosing a leader when, given a pool of such talent and a process that occupies more than a year and consumes billions of dollars, what rises to the top of the heap is George W Bush. Or when the likes of Rick Perry or Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin can be mentioned as even remote possibilities.”

    if i could add anything, it would be to point out that not all of the gop are genuine ignoramuses. many are worse. many are paid and lobbied by powerful interests to pretend to be ignoramuses, in order to allow their benefactors to keep polluting and keep selling faulty products and bogus stock. the modern gop exists only to keep their fat fingers in the national piggy bank and defend their space at the trough.

    aarrgghh:
    in short, in an effort to maintain its grip on a shrinking base of its most reliable voters, the gop has elevated discredited dogma over sound policy, proven science and good governance. those sounding the alarm and those unwilling to pay fealty have been branded rinos, apostates and traitors. their ongoing intellectual pogrom has reduced its membership to grifters, sideshow barkers, outright madmen and those still dumb enough or desperate enough to keep buying the kool-aid.

    despite their belated misgivings, the gop don’t have a “normal” candidate waiting in the wings, because they don’t have a “normal” (ie, sound) platform or “normal” (ie, sane) party faithful. there’s no “great gop hope” who can pitch their current platform, satisfy their base and still appear “normal”.

  308. avatar
    sfjeff August 25, 2011 at 12:11 pm #

    John Mirse:

    “If Obama loses on election day Nov. 2012, and pro-Obama supporters continue to say that birthers and Tea Party people had nothing to do with it, then I say that those people will be in a state of sad denial. ”

    Yeah….well we will be in denial of your claim.

    I have been saying for some time now that if the economy doesn’t show marked improvement by the time of the election, Obama will probably lose. Voters care about the economy- not birther idiocy.

    Seriously- with the state of the economy for the last 4 years, only a person in denial would be thinking “oh anyone who votes against Obama this time, must have questions about his eligiblity!”.

    I think this election may be the Republicans to lose. If they select a Perry or a Romney, they can probably win- pick a Gingrich, Bachmann or Palin and they will just be throwing the election away.

    Why do I say this? No one who voted for Obama will vote for a Bachmann- the swing voters who voted for Obama last time will be looking for a viable alternative, otherwise they will either not vote, or hold their nose and still vote for Obama….you know like a lot of Republicans did for Bush.

  309. avatar
    Rickey August 25, 2011 at 12:22 pm #

    john mirse:

    But you don’t have to worry Rickey, because I have been praying for you.

    I hope that your prayers are more effective than Rick Perry’s prayers. On April 21 Perry proclaimed three days of prayer for rain, as 10-20% of Texas was then experiencing a drought. As of a few weeks ago. 75% of Texas was experiencing a drought. Why does God hate Texas and Rick Perry?

  310. avatar
    Sef August 25, 2011 at 12:39 pm #

    Rickey: Why does God hate Texas and Rick Perry?

    Because he’s a “professional Christian” (see Mark Twain’s ‘Letters From the Earth’).

  311. avatar
    Majority Will August 25, 2011 at 4:04 pm #

    Rickey: Northland10 never said that they are your words. He is referring to “the comment following Mirse on FR.” Click on the link he provided. It’s right there.

    There might be fewer birthers if they had stronger reading comprehension skills.

    Or not.

  312. avatar
    aarrgghh August 25, 2011 at 5:09 pm #

    … and right on time, as if in rebuttal to dawkins upthread, comes america’s favorite self-described “regular american” plumber:

    “I’m not ruling anything out,” Wurzelbacher told The Ticket in an interview Thursday. He added that he thought it was an “interesting idea” and that people have been asking him to run for office since he confronted Obama four years ago. He’s spent much of his time since then on the speaker’s circuit, he said, encouraging others to run for office.

    “I like the idea of it — just regular Americans running. If a regular guy runs, right away the media’s going to attack him,” Wurzelbacher said. “What kind of education does he have? What does he know about this? My answer to that is, regular Americans aren’t experts, but dammit, look where the experts have gotten us. Maybe we need some regular guys in there. That’s what I’ve been doing the past two and a half years, just encouraging regular Americans to run. Tell the liberal media to go to hell and I don’t care what you guys say about me, I’m going to try to fix this country.”

    Jon Stainbrook, chairman of the Lucas County Republican Party, told the Blade he’s hoping Wurzelbacher jumps in.

    “He would make a fantastic candidate,” Stainbrook said.

  313. avatar
    Keith August 25, 2011 at 9:38 pm #

    aarrgghh: “He would make a fantastic candidate,” Stainbrook said.

    Yet another pointy end of the problem.

    Some people are looking for what they define as “good candidates”, not “good office holders”.

  314. avatar
    Northland10 August 25, 2011 at 10:42 pm #

    Rickey: Northland10 never said that they are your words. He is referring to “the comment following Mirse on FR.” Click on the link he provided. It’s right there.

    Thanks for pointing that out (busy day with even choir rehearsals and such. I know I can be difficult to follow sometimes but, in this case, I thought I was clear. It’s good to know I was.

    And Scientist, yes, I would agree that the obsession is bipartisan, though in this case referring to FR, the GOP was an apt example,.

  315. avatar
    john mirse August 25, 2011 at 10:51 pm #

    Rickey wrote: Northland10 never said that they are your words. He is referring to “the comment following Mirse on FR.” Click on the link he provided. It’s right there.
    *******
    I agree with your statement above, because I went back and read Northland 10’s message. I missed the word “comment” in the message when I read it the first time. My apologizes.

  316. avatar
    john mirse August 25, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    Rickey wrote: What makes you think that I have any interest in virgins?
    *******
    Okay. I’ll pray to God to give you 72 non-virgins.

  317. avatar
    richCares August 25, 2011 at 11:11 pm #

    mirse says “Okay. I’ll pray to God to give you 72 non-virgins.”
    recall that they prayed for Obama to lose the nomination
    he won
    .
    recall that they prayed for rain on Obama’s acceptance speech
    it was a beautiful day
    .
    recall that they prayed for Obama to lose the election
    he won
    .
    it seems that God is on Obama’s side

  318. avatar
    G August 26, 2011 at 12:26 am #

    Giving credit where credit is due, that was quite funny!

    john mirse: Rickey wrote: What makes you think that I have any interest in virgins?*******Okay. I’ll pray to God to give you 72 non-virgins.

  319. avatar
    misha August 26, 2011 at 12:27 am #

    aarrgghh: Wurzelbacher

    “Joe the plumber” Wurzelbacher in Israel:
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2009/01/joe-plumber-in-israel-pbuh.html

  320. avatar
    misha August 26, 2011 at 12:40 am #

    john mirse: Okay. I’ll pray to God to give you 72 non-virgins.

    Two of the shiksas I seduced were virgins. Eat your heart out.

  321. avatar
    john mirse August 26, 2011 at 1:30 am #

    RichCares wrote: it seems that God is on Obama’s side.
    ***********
    You could be right. But someone better send an SOS to God and tell Him that
    the U.S. economy stinks, and if God doesn’t help President Obama to jumpstart and improve the economy sooner than later, President Obama will be in a lot of trouble come election day Nov. 2012, especially in swing states Florida, Ohio, and Virginia.

  322. avatar
    john mirse August 26, 2011 at 1:48 am #

    Misha wrote: Two of the shiksas I seduced were virgins. Eat your heart out.
    ********
    Congraulations. What more can I say? When a person like you is a living stud,
    we can only stand in awe and praise him for his great use of his God-given talent of seducing shiksas.

  323. avatar
    G August 26, 2011 at 2:21 am #

    Yes, the US economy stinks. The silly political gamesmanship over country is definitely part of the problem and why nothing serious can get done.

    If America fails, all of us lose. Too many people get wrapped up into rooting for or against some candidate, as if this is merely a local football game rivalry, instead of real lives and real serious consequences. Whether you voted for a President or not or are happy with congress or other elected officials or not, as Americans, let’s try to root for our actual country for once and wish for a better tommorrow for all of our benefit. Let’s pray for those elected, whether you voted for them or not to actually do the jobs they were elected to do and help better America. You can root for whatever candidate you want everytime ballot time comes up. Once an election has been decided, try rooting for America’s success and set aside the petty partisanship until the next election.

    john mirse: RichCares wrote: it seems that God is on Obama’s side.***********You could be right. But someone better send an SOS to God and tell Him thatthe U.S. economy stinks, and if God doesn’t help President Obama to jumpstart and improve the economy sooner than later, President Obama will be in a lot of trouble come election day Nov. 2012, especially in swing states Florida, Ohio, and Virginia.

  324. avatar
    misha August 26, 2011 at 8:17 am #

    john mirse: What more can I say?

    I’m doing better than George Rekers.

    Rekers, who is a Baptist minister, and co-founded the conservative Family Research Council, was caught returning from a 10-day trip to Europe with a male escort he found on Rentboy.com.

    Rekers has a new explanation for the trip. “I deliberately spend time with sinners with the loving goal to try to help them,” he said.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/05/george-rekers-anti-gay-ac_n_565142.html

  325. avatar
    Rickey August 26, 2011 at 10:49 am #

    misha: I’m doing better than George Rekers.

    Rekers, who is a Baptist minister, and co-founded the conservative Family Research Council, was caught returning from a 10-day trip to Europe with a male escort he found on Rentboy.com.

    Rekers has a new explanation for the trip. “I deliberately spend time with sinners with the loving goal to try to help them,” he said.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/05/george-rekers-anti-gay-ac_n_565142.html

    And the beat goes on:

    State Rep. Phillip Hinkle, an Indiana Republican who was accused of offering a young man money in exchange “for a really good time,” will not resign but says he won’t seek re-election next term…Hinkle recently voted for an amendment to the state’s constitution that would define marriage as between a man and a woman.

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/indiana_goper_self-destruction_of_soliticiting_man.php

  326. avatar
    Daniel August 26, 2011 at 12:01 pm #

    john mirse: Rickey wrote: What makes you think that I have any interest in virgins?
    *******
    Okay. I’ll pray to God to give you 72 non-virgins.

    While you’re at it, why not pray that God will grant you the minimum intelligence required to find the “quote” link. It’s really hard to take you seriously on a subject as complex as Constitutional law, if you can’t even find a quote link.

  327. avatar
    Majority Will August 26, 2011 at 12:30 pm #

    Terry K.:
    D’oh! Thanks for the catch, Arthur. I’ve fixed the song title in my post.

    Thanks for your hard work on conwebwatch.com.

  328. avatar
    misha August 26, 2011 at 12:31 pm #

    Daniel: While you’re at it, why not pray that God will grant you the minimum intelligence required to find the “quote” link.

    John mirse is the missing link. Oh, that’s right. Conservatives don’t believe in evolution.

    Evolution is merely a theory. Just ask Rick Perry. Gravity is just a theory, too.

  329. avatar
    john mirse August 26, 2011 at 1:14 pm #

    Daniel wrote: While you’re at it, why not pray that God will grant you the minimum intelligence required to find the “quote” link. It’s really hard to take you seriously on a subject as complex as Constitutional law, if you can’t even find a quote link.
    ********
    If you evaluate the pros and cons of a person’s opinion by whether or not he uses the quote button, I feel sorry for you.

    In case you have forgotten, freedom of choice is what makes America great.

    Also remember that freedom of choice means that you and others here don’t have
    to read or respond to my messages if you don’t want to. Nobody is forcing you to read my messages.

    It’s like saying that Obama does not know what he is talking about because he uses a teleprompter.

  330. avatar
    john mirse August 26, 2011 at 1:27 pm #

    Misha wrote: John mirse is the missing link. Oh, that’s right. Conservatives don’t believe in evolution.

    Evolution is merely a theory. Just ask Rick Perry. Gravity is just a theory, too.
    *********
    Misha the living stud speaks again, and the world stands still to breathe in his words of wisdom.

    A self-proclaimed living stud like Misha who can seduce not one but two virgin shiskas must be listened to with the utmost respect. We average human beings salute you Misha, the great conqueror of virgin shiskas.

  331. avatar
    misha August 26, 2011 at 2:21 pm #

    john mirse: Misha the living stud speaks again

    A stud is a male dog. A bitch is a female dog. You really should learn medical terms.

  332. avatar
    misha August 26, 2011 at 2:26 pm #

    john mirse: It’s like saying that Obama does not know what he is talking about because he uses a teleprompter.

    Here’s one of many, of Shrub using a teleprompter:
    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/assets_c/2008/05/Bush%20on%20Abe%20Lincoln%20Mission%20Accomplished%20small-thumb-425×278.jpg

  333. avatar
    Daniel August 26, 2011 at 3:13 pm #

    john mirse:

    If you evaluatethe pros and cons ofa person’s opinionby whether or not he uses the quote button, I feel sorry for you.

    I evaluate the pros and cons of a person’s opinion primarily by whether it is well substantiated and factual. Yours is not.

    So failing that I evaluate the pros and cons of a person’s opinion based on the apparent level of competence and intelligence they display in the conversation. Things like whether they can use a spell checker to avoid more than a reasonable number of mistakes, or whether they can grasp a minimum level of grammar, these are all things which speak to a person’s level of intelligence, as does their ability to use a blatantly obvious “quote” link to quote from.

    These are the criteria that I use to evaluate a person’s opinion. These are the criteria that you fail miserably.

  334. avatar
    Thrifty August 26, 2011 at 4:24 pm #

    john mirse: If you evaluate the pros and cons of a person’s opinion by whether or not he uses the quote button, I feel sorry for you.

    You seriously believe that’s the only reason people think your opinions are garbage?

  335. avatar
    Thrifty August 26, 2011 at 4:27 pm #

    G: Too many people get wrapped up into rooting for or against some candidate, as if this is merely a local football game rivalry, instead of real lives and real serious consequences.

    I disagree with this. Most people are independents only passively interested in politics. Too passive to root for any candidate, but not passive enough that they don’t want to vote for what they feel is best for the country.

  336. avatar
    AnotherBird August 26, 2011 at 4:30 pm #

    Just rambling. No direction. Even if it suppose be a short story Adam’s thesis is poorly written. I lost count with all the run on sentences.

  337. avatar
    john mirse August 26, 2011 at 4:31 pm #

    Daniel wrote: I evaluate the pros and cons of a person’s opinion primarily by whether it is well substantiated and factual. Yours is not.

    So failing that I evaluate the pros and cons of a person’s opinion based on the apparent level of competence and intelligence they display in the conversation. Things like whether they can use a spell checker to avoid more than a reasonable number of mistakes, or whether they can grasp a minimum level of grammar, these are all things which speak to a person’s level of intelligence, as does their ability to use a blatantly obvious “quote” link to quote from.

    These are the criteria that I use to evaluate a person’s opinion. These are the criteria that you fail miserably
    *********
    You do realize that you used some of your valuable time and energy to respond to a message from a person who fails your criteria.

    If I felt like you did, I would simply ignore the writer and use my time and energy to respond and debate issues with persons who meet my high intellectual criteria for writing an acceptable intelligent message and whose opinions I respected.

    So my suggestion to you is this: Whenever you see a message written by me, simply move on and don’t waste your valuable time and energy jumping all over me for not using the quote button.

    Are my messages factual or well substantiated? One thing I know for sure, if presidential candidate President Obama loses swing states Florida, Ohio, and Virginia—-states where he is having growing trouble today—-come election day Nov. 2012, then presidential candidate Obama will be in deep, deep trouble in his campaign to win a second term.

  338. avatar
    Thrifty August 26, 2011 at 4:32 pm #

    aarrgghh: … and right on time, as if in rebuttal to dawkins upthread, comes america’s favorite self-described “regular american” plumber:

    When he says “look where the experts have gotten us”, I think “Well… we’re a global superpower and the largest economy in the world. I’d say they’ve done all right.” The gist of his argument seems to be that because things aren’t perfect, our current leadership has failed. Isn’t there some formal name for that logical fallacy?

  339. avatar
    john mirse August 26, 2011 at 4:43 pm #

    Thrifty wrote: You seriously believe that’s the only reason people think your opinions are garbage?
    ***********
    I think you mean that people on THIS message board think my opinions are garbage.

    My opinions may be garbage to posters here, but if presidential candidate Obama does not improve his low ratings in key swing states Florida, Ohio, and Virginia between now and election day Nov. 2012, President Obama will lose those states come election day Nov. 2012, and President Obama will be in deep, deep trouble in his campaign to win a second term. And that statement ain’t garbage.

  340. avatar
    Thrifty August 26, 2011 at 4:47 pm #

    john mirse: So my suggestion to you is this: Whenever you see a message written by me, simply move on and don’t waste your valuable time and energy jumping all over me for not using the quote button.

    Translation: Please allow me to spread nonsense and lies, and do not challenge me.

    Time is not so valuable that it is wasted indulging in one’s hobbies.

  341. avatar
    Thrifty August 26, 2011 at 4:49 pm #

    john mirse: I think you mean that people on THIS message board think my opinions are garbage.
    My opinions may be garbage to posters here, but if presidential candidate Obama does not improve his low ratings in key swing states Florida, Ohio, and Virginia between now and election day Nov. 2012, President Obama will lose those states come election day Nov. 2012, and President Obama will be in deep, deep trouble in his campaign to win a second term. And that statement ain’t garbage.

    I didn’t say ALL your statements were garbage. The ones that advance Birther dogma are.

  342. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 26, 2011 at 5:18 pm #

    Maybe they can do that in the gonzo thing.

    AnotherBird: Just rambling. No direction. Even if it suppose be a short story Adam’s thesis is poorly written. I lost count with all the run on sentences.

  343. avatar
    G August 26, 2011 at 5:24 pm #

    I’m talking about the people squaking and driving the debate, not the people that are too busy or tuned out and not paying attention. The former will put forth some sort of advocacy pressure, which is either a help or a hinderance in getting things to move forward. The latter just show up to vote, at best.

    Thrifty: I disagree with this. Most people are independents only passively interested in politics. Too passive to root for any candidate, but not passive enough that they don’t want to vote for what they feel is best for the country.

  344. avatar
    aarrgghh August 26, 2011 at 6:00 pm #

    oi, just when i thought it was getting safe to ask somebody to “carry my luggage”, now i need to think twice whenever somebody wants to “talk baseball”

    Rickey: And the beat goes on:
    State Rep. Phillip Hinkle, an Indiana Republican who was accused of offering a young man money in exchange “for a really good time,” will not resign but says he won’t seek re-election next term…Hinkle recently voted for an amendment to the state’s constitution that would define marriage as between a man and a woman.

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/indiana_goper_self-destruction_of_soliticiting_man.php

  345. avatar
    john mirse August 26, 2011 at 7:33 pm #

    G wrote: Obama won over 20%: DC, HI, VT, RI, NY, MA, MD, IL, DE, CA, CT = 149 EV
    *******
    I don’t think your are being realistic when you say that Obama will automatically win the states above come election day Nov. 2012 because he won those states by a large margin back in 2008.

    Much has changed for the worse when it comes to the economy and to the spirit of hope on Obama’s watch, so many people in the states above who voted for Obama in 2008 will vote to give somebody else a chance in 2012 to try to straighten out our bad economy and tg try to lift the air of despair and helplessness that is spreading to many parts of the country.

    According to your figures, you give Obama 207 electoral college votes. I think that a candidate needs 270 or 271 votes to win, so where did you say Obama was going to get those last 62 or 63 votes?

  346. avatar
    Daniel August 26, 2011 at 7:46 pm #

    john mirse: President Obama will lose those states come election day Nov. 2012, and President Obama will be in deep, deep trouble in his campaign to win a second term. And that statement ain’t garbage.

    What is garbage is the intimation that birthers have anything to do with it.

    If Obama loses the second term it will be because Republicans, like me, are working hard to make sure that we put forward candidates that are what America needs, and work towards making sure we win the hearts of the people.

    This will be in spite of birthers who have been working hard for three years to hand the election to Obama on a silver platter, by making conservatives look like a bunch of lunatic whack jobs.

    If you really want to make sure Obama doesn’t get a second term, John Mirse… if you truly want to make sure Obama doesn’t get four more years, then the best thing you could do; you and the other birthers, is just shut the hell up and let the real conservatives get on with the real work.

    And while you’re shutting the hell up, you could spend some time improving your IQ, starting with figuring out what the quote link is for, instead of coming up with lame excuses why you can’t use it.

  347. avatar
    john mirse August 26, 2011 at 9:25 pm #

    Daniel wrote: If you really want to make sure Obama doesn’t get a second term, John Mirse… if you truly want to make sure Obama doesn’t get four more years, then the best thing you could do; you and the other birthers, is just shut the hell up and let the real conservatives get on with the real work.
    *********
    I didn’t realize that birthers couldn’t be real conservatives or real Republicans like Daniel is.

    So Daniel is a real conservative Republican who wants to get on with the real work of defeating Obama on election day Nov. 2012 and who, in the process, wants terrible birthers like me to go away and stop getting in the way.

    Learning that real conservative Republican Daniel’s “real work goal” is to defeat President Obama on election day Nov. 2012 must be an eye-opener and surprise to some posters on this board, a board that seems to be overwhelmingly Democratic and pro-Obama.

  348. avatar
    richCares August 26, 2011 at 9:39 pm #

    mirse says “…surprise to some posters on this board”
    no surprize there, Only a birther would believe this site an overwhelmingly Democratic and pro-Obama.
    .
    Laughing at birthers is not mean an overwhelmingly Democratic and pro-Obama site. Actually we don’t even know who Doc C voted for and don’t care, this site is to illuminate the conspiracies and how silly they are (as in you)
    .
    If you don’t like Obama then find a candidate to oppose him and support that candidate, don’t marginalize yourself as Trump did, he became the butt of the joke as you aspire to become. Is it so hard to believe Obama was born in Hawaii (that is just silly)

  349. avatar
    john mirse August 26, 2011 at 9:59 pm #

    RichCares wrote: mirse says “…surprise to some posters on this board”
    no surprize there, Only a birther would believe this site an overwhelmingly Democratic and pro-Obama.
    ********
    Maybe you should go over to FreeRepublic and ask posters there if they believe or don’t believe that this Dr. Conspiracy site is a mostly pro-Democractic Party and pro-Obama site, if you don’t believe me.

  350. avatar
    Joey August 26, 2011 at 10:39 pm #

    If anybody thinks that Americans are disappointed in the performance of Barack Obama, look at how they feel about Congress! Obama’s worst disapproval rating in any poll is currently at 56%.

    AP-GfK Poll conducted by GfK Roper Public Affairs & Corporate Communications. Aug. 18-22, 2011. N=1,000 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 4.1.

    “Overall, please tell me whether you approve, disapprove, or neither approve nor disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job.” If neither: “If you had to choose, do you lean more toward approving or disapproving of the way Congress is handling its job?”

    Approve: 12%
    Disapprove : 87%
    Neither: 1%
    Unsure : 1%

    This is the worst approval rating for Congress in the history of public opinion polling.

  351. avatar
    Joey August 26, 2011 at 10:45 pm #

    AP-GfK Poll conducted by GfK Roper Public Affairs & Corporate Communications. Aug. 18-22, 2011. N=1,000 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 4.1.

    “Regardless of how you might vote, do you think President Barack Obama deserves to be reelected or deserves to be voted out of office?” Options rotated

    Deserves to be reelected: 47%
    Deserves to be voted out : 48%
    Unsure; 4%
    Refused : 1%

    Pew Research Center. Aug. 17-21, 2011. N=1,205 registered voters nationwide.

    “Looking ahead, would you like to see Barack Obama reelected president in 2012 or would you prefer that a Republican candidate win the election?” If other/someone else: “If you had to choose, would you like to see Barack Obama reelected or would you prefer that a Republican candidate win the election?”

    Obama: 43%
    Republican: 40%
    Other: —
    Unsure: 17%

  352. avatar
    richCares August 26, 2011 at 11:21 pm #

    “if you don’t believe me.”
    FreeRepublic, Ha ha hah hah ha Ha ha hah hah ha Ha ha hah hah ha
    FreeRepublic is dummber than you

  353. avatar
    john mirse August 26, 2011 at 11:30 pm #

    “Regardless of how you might vote, do you think President Barack Obama deserves to be reelected or deserves to be voted out of office?” Options rotated

    Deserves to be reelected: 47%
    Deserves to be voted out : 48%
    Unsure; 4%
    Refused : 1%

    Joey wrote: Pew Research Center. Aug. 17-21, 2011. N=1,205 registered voters nationwide.

    “Looking ahead, would you like to see Barack Obama reelected president in 2012 or would you prefer that a Republican candidate win the election?” If other/someone else: “If you had to choose, would you like to see Barack Obama reelected or would you prefer that a Republican candidate win the election?”

    Obama: 43%
    Republican: 40%
    Other: –
    Unsure: 17%
    **********
    It seems that the surveys above show that the Nov. 2012 election is going to be too close to call before election night, so we might have another virtual tie in electoral college votes like the Gore-Bush election as the election night goes on, where Gore won the popular vote but where Bush won the electoral college vote, and where swing state Florida played a key part in Bush’s victory.

    So it looks again like swing states like Florida, Ohio, and Virginia could play a key part in the 2012 elections for President, especially if the race turns out to be a very close race down to the wire like the Gore-Bush race.

  354. avatar
    john mirse August 26, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    RichCares: “if you don’t believe me.”
    FreeRepublic, Ha ha hah hah ha Ha ha hah hah ha Ha ha hah hah ha
    FreeRepublic is dummber than you
    *********
    So why don’t you go over there and tell them how dumb posters are there? Are you scared to do so? I’m not scared to post here and take on poster abuse.

    Tell me again how this Dr. Conspiracy site is NOT a pro-Democratic Party and NOT a pro-Obama site.

  355. avatar
    richCares August 26, 2011 at 11:39 pm #

    here’s a bit for for mirse, who limited exposure to anything:
    John Lofton, the Editor of American View, a conservative Christian web site states
    “I’ve been kicked off the “Free Republic” web site. No more posting allowed. The problem? The results of my brain scan. It revealed I had one — a definite no-no if you’re posting among the “FReepers.”
    http://archive.theamericanview.com/index.php?id=1067

  356. avatar
    richCares August 26, 2011 at 11:46 pm #

    Doc C has avoided discusions on politics, not his cup of tea you assume his views based on your projections only, since he deals blows to birthers you make assinine assumptions, That is typical for those on freeper. FreeRepublic is highly moderated, any one with differing views is quickly banned. Now point to a single polical view that Doc C has made.

  357. avatar
    john mirse August 27, 2011 at 12:04 am #

    Richcares wrote: FreeRepublic is highly moderated, any one with differing views is quickly banned. Now point to a single polical view that Doc C has made.
    *********
    Have you ever been banned from FreeRepublic?

    If not, why don’t you post there about the Obama controversies such as Obama’s Social Security number issue, Obama’s long form birth certificate issue, and the issue as to why Obama won’t give Kapiolani Hospital permission to release his Aug. 4, 1961 records to the public.

    Let’s see if you have the guts to take on all the heated criticism you will receive there .

  358. avatar
    john mirse August 27, 2011 at 12:49 am #

    Doc C has avoided discusions on politics, not his cup of tea you assume his views based on your projections only, since he deals blows to birthers you make assinine assumptions,
    ********
    All I know is that to even the most casual poster and lurker here, 90% or more of the posters here are pro-Obama posters. That is just a fact.

    For instance, outside of myself, I can’t think of any other persons who post here who question Obama’s background or criticize his policies as severely as I do. That is just not normal for a site that claims it welcomes all diverse views about Obama.

    Myself, I believe that Obama is the worst president in the history of the United States. President Jimmy Carter, who was generally a very nice person but who many historians consider a terrible president, must have been his mentor.

    Let’s see how many posters here agree with me, if this is a site that welcomes all viewpoints and is not overwhelmingly a pro-Democratic Party and a pro-Obama discussion site.

  359. avatar
    richCares August 27, 2011 at 12:57 am #

    “welcomes all viewpoints ”
    yes, except for silly birthers, those are not viewpoints, just silly garbage
    birther monsenese get you nowher unless you like Freeper bull pupu and racist stuff
    a lot of Freeper comments seem to come right from KKK
    you have become a miserable troll, goodbye!

  360. avatar
    G August 27, 2011 at 1:43 am #

    Sorry John, but I was being quite realistic and sticking with simple basic facts of EV math. Which is why I stuck with only the high margin states on both sides and left out all the rest – those less than 15% either way can be considered the realistic pool of states at play this early out. Of course that might shift one way or the other as we get closer to the election…but for now, that is a fairly objective criteria to use as a baseline.

    You are so wrapped up in your petty hate that you simply blind yourself to any bit of data that doesn’t offer you the comfort you desperately crave. Yes, the economy is bad. Yes, there are members of Obama’s base and various independents that are disappointed in Obama.

    However, what you seem to fail to undertand is that most of those that actually voted for him and seem to be disappointed now are usually complaining because they view him as nowhere near progressive enough in his policies and actually view his actions as way to the right of what they wanted to see. Outside of a few fringe firebaggers that wish to cut off their nose to spite their face, this overall class of people are not likely to vote for the current crop of GOP candidates, who are much, much further to the right of their political desires than Obama ever could be. Some segment could possibly “stay home”, but that is highly unlikely under the threat of how far right things could lurch if they let the current extreme GOP mindset take over. Therefore, they may piss and moan a lot in the meantime, but when it comes time to vote, it is more likely than not that a sufficient majority of those who voted for him in 2008 will end up doing so again…even those that feel disappointed to the extent that they see it as no choice but to hold their nose and vote for what they see as “the lesser of two evils”.

    Of course Obama has a lot to be concerned about and nobody is saying this 2012 campaign is going to be easy for anyone. Nor am I in anyway making any predictions about the outcome this far out… particularly when the GOP nominee is nowhere close to being known.

    I’m merely pointing out the reality that despite the bad economy, Obama has a greater margin of error cusion than most people realize, due to having such an overwhelming margin of voter victory in 2008 – both in terms of the reality of the EV map AND just as importantly, his over 9.5 million vote margin of victory in that election.

    Simply put, he could weather a fairly large loss of support and still eke out a victory.

    On the other side of the fence, the GOP has a very steep uphill battle to gain votes and territory that they didn’t have before. So far, they haven’t done anything that has increased favorability towards them, beyond their existing hardcore base. In fact, their own trendlines have been in many polls, more negative than Obama’s. They have a significant challenge ahead of them to both reverse those trends and obtain broader appeal in order to overcome such significant vote deficit realities in a Presidential election.

    Finally, a candidate only needs 270 EV to win. 269 is a tie.

    john mirse: G wrote: Obama won over 20%: DC, HI, VT, RI, NY, MA, MD, IL, DE, CA, CT = 149 EV*******I don’t think your are being realistic when you say that Obama will automatically win the states above come election day Nov. 2012 because he won those states by a large margin back in 2008.Much has changed for the worse when it comes to the economy and to the spirit of hope on Obama’s watch, so many people in the states above who voted for Obama in 2008 will vote to give somebody else a chance in 2012 to try to straighten out our bad economy and tg try to lift the air of despair and helplessness that is spreading to many parts of the country. According to your figures, you give Obama 207 electoral college votes. I think that a candidate needs 270 or 271 votes to win, so where did you say Obama was going to get those last 62 or 63 votes?

  361. avatar
    Rickey August 27, 2011 at 1:48 am #

    john mirse:
    All I know is that to even the most casual poster and lurker here,90% or more of the posters here are pro-Obama posters. That is just a fact.

    For instance, outside of myself, I can’t think of any other persons who post here who question Obama’s background or criticize his policies as severely as I do.That is just not normal for a site that claims it welcomes all diverse views about Obama.

    Myself, I believe that Obama is the worst president in the history of the United States. President Jimmy Carter, who was generally a very nice person but who many historians consider a terrible president,must have been his mentor.

    Let’s see how many posters here agree with me, if this is a site that welcomes all viewpoints and is not overwhelmingly a pro-Democratic Party and a pro-Obama discussion site.

    This is not a blog which is dedicated to exploring Obama’s policies. It is dedicated to exploring and debunking conspiracy theories involving Obama, in particular conspiracy theories which purport to prove that he is not eligible to be President.

    Most of the regulars here are demonstrably “pro-Obama” only in the sense that we agree that Obama is a natural-born U.S. citizen.

    As for participating in birther blogs such as Free Republic and ORYR, what’s the point? A year ago or so I posted a note over there that I have a conservative textbook by right-wing scholar Cleon Skousen which says that there is no difference between a native born citizen and a natural born citizen. I was immediately banned.

    If this blog were run like Free Republic, you would have been banned within 24 hours of your first posting. The fact that you are still posting here is a testament to the fact that Doc welcomes all viewpoints here,

    By the way, I’m still waiting for you to admit that Obama’s Zip Code in the mid-seventies was 96814.

  362. avatar
    G August 27, 2011 at 1:49 am #

    Daniel has a very valid point here. The attitudes currently afflicting the GOP & many that view themselves as “conservative” has very little to do with traditional conservative positions or values. It is probably better quantified as “pseudo-conservative”, a term first defined by American historian Richard Hofstadter quite a few decades ago.

    For reference, a few articles:

    http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-pseudo-conservative-revolt/

    http://www.theamericanscholar.org/not-compassionate-not-conservative/

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/04/09/pseudoconservatism-revisited/

    john mirse: So Daniel is a real conservative Republican who wants to get on with the real work of defeating Obama on election day Nov. 2012 and who, in the process, wants terrible birthers like me to go away and stop getting in the way.

  363. avatar
    sfjeff August 27, 2011 at 1:51 am #

    john mirse: Doc C has avoided discusions on politics, not his cup of tea you assume his views based on your projections only, since he deals blows to birthers you make assinine assumptions,********All I know is that to even the most casual poster and lurker here, 90% or more of the posters here are pro-Obama posters. That is just a fact. For instance, outside of myself, I can’t think of any other persons who post here who question Obama’s background or criticize his policies as severely as I do. That is just not normal for a site that claims it welcomes all diverse views about Obama. Myself, I believe that Obama is the worst president in the history of the United States. President Jimmy Carter, who was generally a very nice person but who many historians consider a terrible president, must have been his mentor. Let’s see how many posters here agree with me, if this is a site that welcomes all viewpoints and is not overwhelmingly a pro-Democratic Party and a pro-Obama discussion site.

    The difference between Birthers and the anti- Birthers who post here- and this is a very broad generalization- Birthers are all uniformly anti-Obama- and were before they became Birthers. You comingle Birther mania with your objections to his policies and actions as President.

    But they are two seperate issues for us. We don’t spend our time congradulating Obama on this policy or that policy- we refute Birther speculation, lies and innuendo.

    And yes, several posters here are Republicans who voted against Obama- it doesn’t come up often because this site is not about defending Obama’s administration- it is about debunking the misinformation spread by Birther with the intention of removing a our legally elected President.

    I happen to be a Democrat- a moderate Democrat- which in San Francisco makes me practically a Republican. I voted for Obama, but if Birthers were spreading the same lies about President McCain I would be just as incensed.

    Not because they are lies- opponents to Presidents lie about them all the time- look at the stuff thrown at Bush and Clinton- but because the lies are intended to subvert our democratic institution and the Constitution.

    I participate in one other forum- and avoid almost all the policy discussions- frankly they are so rabidly foaming at the mouth partisan- and so ugly- that I do not have the time and energy to interject my opinions about that subject.

    I almost exclusively participate in refuting Birther mania.

  364. avatar
    Rickey August 27, 2011 at 1:59 am #

    G:

    I’m merely pointing out the reality that despite the bad economy, Obama has a greater margin of error cusion than most people realize, due to having such an overwhelming margin of voter victory in 2008 – both in terms of the reality of the EV map AND just as importantly, his over 9.5 million vote margin of victory in that election.

    Simply put, he could weather a fairly large loss of support and still eke out a victory.

    There also is the tremendous advantage of being the incumbent. In my lifetime only two elected incumbents have failed to win re-election, Carter and the first Bush.

    In May, 2004 George W. Bush’s approval rating was 41%, but he was re-elected six months later.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/16/opinion/polls/main702487.shtml

  365. avatar
    G August 27, 2011 at 2:03 am #

    Why should we care what the frothing Freeper lunatics think of this site? Sorry, but that place is nothing but an echo-chamber of pseudo-conservatist paranoia and is considered a bastion of deluded crazy by most of the blogosphere outside of its insular worldview.

    Although many of the posters here happen to be liberals / progressives / democrats and/or people who voted for Obama in 2008, a significant number are not. Daniel, John Reilly and a few others are quite open conservatives and/or GOP voters who did NOT vote for Obama in 2008 and don’t plan to. They simply can’t stand seeing a bunch of crazy talk and lies and would rather beat their opposition based on positions instead of myths. Many of the rest of us are independents or moderates. I may be siding a lot more with the democrats position or show support for Obama – but that is more a reflection of there being sadly little to no rational position or candidate being offered any more by the GOP.

    The world is not as binary as you are limited in seeing it. Reality is almost always a lot more complex and varied that you seem to understand. You seem either unable or unwilling to grasp such simple and straightforward complexity and that is perhaps why your statements and positions end up coming across so laughable or childish when you try to push them outside of your safe little echo chambers. At some point, you’d think you would develop some self-awareness and wonder why you get the reactions and feedback that you do… but maybe you are simply incapable of grasping anything beyond simplistic notions.

    john mirse: Maybe you should go over to FreeRepublic and ask posters there if they believe or don’t believe that this Dr. Conspiracy site is a mostly pro-Democractic Party and pro-Obama site, if you don’t believe me.

  366. avatar
    G August 27, 2011 at 2:11 am #

    The swing states will always play an important role in the Presidential elections. The value and strongly contested interest in Florida, Ohio, PA and lately, Virginia is nothing new. Of course they will be a very important part of the 2012 election story. It is way too early to predict one way or the other how they or the election will pan out this far in advance. The final trend usually doesn’t become clear until after the 3rd and final Presidential debate, which is typically sometime in October and mere weeks before the actual onsite voting at the beginning of November. So we have well more than a year to go before any clear picture emerges. Yes, it could be an extremely close and nail biter election. But it could also turn into a blow-out. Time will tell.

    john mirse: So it looks again like swing states like Florida, Ohio, and Virginia could play a key part in the 2012 elections for President, especially if the race turns out to be a very close race down to the wire like the Gore-Bush race.

  367. avatar
    G August 27, 2011 at 2:28 am #

    Except the purpose of this site is very specific and clear – this is NOT intended to be a political site; it exists to examine conspiracies related to Obama and look for the actual evidence, where any exists. So far, birtherism has provided nothing credible and only a bunch of weak or extremely loopy myths, which have long been debunked. There really hasn’t been anything new in well over a year to investigate, so any scholarly investigation or debate has long since been put to bed in reality.

    Birtherism is simply a bunk conspiracy sham that just ressurects the same long dead zombie horses over and over again. Therefore, most of what remains to do is simply examine the motivations of the Birther movement and watch what remains of the ongoing sideshow.

    Political and personal views on Obama are essentially irrelevant to the main topic. Of course they end up bleeding into the comments from time to time, because of association to the subject at hand, but that really is outside of the scope of this blog’s purpose and intent.

    john mirse: For instance, outside of myself, I can’t think of any other persons who post here who question Obama’s background or criticize his policies as severely as I do. That is just not normal for a site that claims it welcomes all diverse views about Obama.

    So, good for you. What you fail to grasp is nobody really cares whether you like Obama or not or you vote for him or not, as that is not the point of this site at all. Although sometimes people express their personal political opinions here, this is NOT a political advocacy site and such is always a commentary driven side-tangent that has gone off topic.

    You are totally free to disagree with him or his politics, to not like him at all and to simply vote for whomever you choose. That’s the great thing about our system. You are the one who seems unable to accept the simple reality that not everybody thinks like you or is going to vote the way you do and seem to need to wrap yourself in fantasy smears and excuses to sling at a candidate that you don’t like.

    We have no problem with your freedom to vote or not vote however you wish. You seem to have difficulty with not being able to force others to vote how you wish they would vote. Sorry, but we’re simply not interested in your personal tantrums.

    john mirse: Myself, I believe that Obama is the worst president in the history of the United States. President Jimmy Carter, who was generally a very nice person but who many historians consider a terrible president, must have been his mentor.
    Let’s see how many posters here agree with me, if this is a site that welcomes all viewpoints and is not overwhelmingly a pro-Democratic Party and a pro-Obama discussion site.

  368. avatar
    G August 27, 2011 at 3:20 am #

    That is very true. Over the past few decades, the only times an incumbent did not win re-election really turned out to be due to a split in vote support in one of two key ways – 1) weakened by a divisive primary challenge within his own party or 2) a strong 3rd party challenger emerged which siphoned off votes from the incumbent’s voting base.

    Neither of those 2 conditions is forseeable in Obama’s 2012 re-election contest. Any third party challenger that emerges is more likely to appear on to the right of him, not the left.

    Rickey: There also is the tremendous advantage of being the incumbent. In my lifetime only two elected incumbents have failed to win re-election, Carter and the first Bush. In May, 2004 George W. Bush’s approval rating was 41%, but he was re-elected six months later. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/16/opinion/polls/main702487.shtml

  369. avatar
    Majority Will August 27, 2011 at 3:22 am #

    john mirse: Myself, I believe that Obama is the worst president in the history of the United States.

    I believe birthers are a fringe collection of pusillanimous, self-absorbed, small-minded, puerile, logic impaired, xenophobic, hate driven bigots, hypocrites, lunatics, con artists and bullies who are an embarrassment to the United States.

  370. avatar
    john mirse August 27, 2011 at 3:30 am #

    Richcares wrote: birther monsenese get you nowher unless you like Freeper bull pupu and racist stuff
    ********
    Why are birthers called racists? I say that Obama is lying about his past such as his birthplace and his Social Security number.

    But calling a politician a liar, like Obama, does not make a person a racist.

    For instance, President Nixon lied about the Watergate scandal, and President Clinton lied about his girlfriends who he had when he was governor and president:”I did not have sex with that woman.”

    I call those two presidents liars, but I cannot be called a racist because those two presidents were white.

    I don’t care if Obama was black or pink or whatever, I just want him to allow Kapiolani Hospital to release his Aug. 4, 1961 records, to allow Hawaii officials to release his original long form birth certificate, and to release his Social Security original application so that we can see why the first 3 digits refer to Connecticut instead of to Hawaii.

    So, again, just because I call President’s Nixon, Clinton, and Obama liars does not make me or other birthers racists.

  371. avatar
    Majority Will August 27, 2011 at 3:34 am #

    john mirse: Let’s see if you have the guts to take on all the heated criticism you will receive there .

    You’re projecting again.

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)

  372. avatar
    Majority Will August 27, 2011 at 3:37 am #

    john mirse: Why are birthers called racists?

    Would you like thousands of blatant examples of birther racism?

    Are you really that lazy or just blind?

  373. avatar
    misha August 27, 2011 at 3:38 am #

    john mirse: I say that Obama is lying about his past such as his birthplace and his Social Security number.

    I say Glenn Beck is lying about that rape and murder in 1990.

    john mirse: I just want him to allow Kapiolani Hospital to release his Aug. 4, 1961 records, to allow Hawaii officials to release his original long form birth certificate, and to release his Social Security original application so that we can see why the first 3 digits refer to Connecticut instead of to Hawaii.

    I just want Glenn Beck to release his criminal record abstract, showing it is stamped “subject has clear record to date,” and this can be over tonight. I also want Ann Coulter to make a public statement that she never had an abortion at Planned Parenthood.

  374. avatar
    john mirse August 27, 2011 at 3:46 am #

    Rickey wrote: By the way, I’m still waiting for you to admit that Obama’s Zip Code in the mid-seventies was 96814.
    ********
    Yes, it look like you were right. It seems that in 1976 or 1977 when Hawaiin teenager Obama applied for his Social Security card, his Hawaii zip code for S. Beretania St. was 96814.

    It also looks like Obama’s home address of S. Beretania St. had its zip code changed sometime between 1977 and 1980 to 96826, because Obama put zip code 96826 on his Selective Service form that he signed in July 1980.

    Okay?

  375. avatar
    john mirse August 27, 2011 at 3:51 am #

    Misha the stud wrote:I say Glenn Beck is lying about that rape and murder in 1990.
    *******
    Is Beck running for President? If he is, its the first I have heard about it.

  376. avatar
    Obsolete August 27, 2011 at 3:54 am #

    1- Kapiolani would nit have Obama’s birth records after 50 years. Do some basic research into hospital & medical records retention.

    2- Obama has released his long-form, and Hawaii has confirmed its validity and documented the chain of custody. Bulletproof in any court or Congressional investigation.

    You want Hawaii to let Orly and her two kooks examine it- frauds with no expertise who declared it a forgery before ever seeing it.

    3- You haven’t explained what is wrong or illegal with Obama being issued a SS number with a CT prefix.

    The SS Administration told Orly her charges of fraud were baseless, and say on their web site not to read too much into the prefix for any purpose.

    So what else you got, John Mirse?

    The reason (among others) that birthers are mostly racists is because they demand all sorts of papers from Obama, but not the other candidates who have lighter skin colors. Why aren’t you concerned with Romney’s SS number, or demanding to see Rick Perry’s birth certificate? Why do you take them at their word, but not Obama, when Obama is the only one to release his birth certificate?

    Plus, you post on FreeRepublic, which is an avowed racist and anti-Muslim site.

  377. avatar
    Joey August 27, 2011 at 3:55 am #

    It;s not very bright or politically astute to try to judge ANY President as “the worst in history” when they haven’t even completed their term in office.,
    All that shows is personal bias and animus toward that president with no sense of the history of the American presidency.
    I know liberal Democrats who put the same “worst” label on George W, Bush. That’s also personal bias not an objective ranking.
    Before anyone puts a “worst” label on any modern day president, take a look at the presidencies of Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson.

    The C-SPAN Survey of Presidential Leadership consists of rankings from a group of presidential historians and “professional observers of the presidency” who ranked presidents in a number of categories initially in 2000 and more recently in 2009. With some minor variation, both surveys found that historians consider Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, and Franklin D. Roosevelt the three best presidents by a wide margin and William Henry Harrison (to a lesser extent), Warren G. Harding, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, and James Buchanan as the worst.

  378. avatar
    john mirse August 27, 2011 at 4:07 am #

    Rickey wrote: As for participating in birther blogs such as Free Republic and ORYR, what’s the point? A year ago or so I posted a note over there that I have a conservative textbook by right-wing scholar Cleon Skousen which says that there is no difference between a native born citizen and a natural born citizen. I was immediately banned.
    *********
    It was wrong for FreeRepublic to ban you. If I ran the site, I wouldn’t have banned you as long as you were civil and didn’t start calling other posters insulting names.

    One reason I came here was that it starts getting boring after a while discussing Obama issues with other posters who are already critical of Obama.

    I came here because I wanted to see what the other side—-the pro-Obama side—thought about such issues like Obama’s Social Security number and Obama’s long form birth certificate.

    My time here has been very interesting to say the least.

    Again, I think it was wrong to ban you from the FreeRepublic site as long as you respected the other posters and did not call the other posters foul names.

    That is, the severe way you have criticized my messages here would be acceptable to me at FreeRepublic if I ran the site.

  379. avatar
    john mirse August 27, 2011 at 4:29 am #

    Majority Will wrote:
    john mirse: Let’s see if you have the guts to take on all the heated criticism you will receive there .

    You’re projecting again.

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection)
    *********
    I don’t understand how psychological projection as explained in the link above applies to me when I challenged a poster to go to FreeRepubiic and post his views on Obama issues.

    It would help if you could explain to me how and why you believe psychological projection applies to my message above.

    From the link above: Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings.[1]

    Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them.

    An example of this behavior might be blaming another for self failure. The mind may avoid the discomfort of consciously admitting personal faults by keeping those feelings unconscious, and by redirecting libidinal satisfaction by attaching, or “projecting,” those same faults onto another person or object.

  380. avatar
    Rickey August 27, 2011 at 11:57 am #

    G:
    That is very true.Over the past few decades, the only times an incumbent did not win re-election really turned out to be due to a split in vote support in one of two key ways – 1) weakened by a divisive primary challenge within his own party or 2) a strong 3rd party challenger emerged which siphoned off votes from the incumbent’s voting base.

    Neither of those 2 conditions is forseeable in Obama’s 2012 re-election contest.Any third party challenger that emerges is more likely to appear on to the right of him, not the left.

    The other incumbent who did not win re-election, Gerald Ford, was not elected in the first place, but he faced a strong challenge in the primaries by Reagan which damaged him. Similarly, Carter faced a strong primary challenge from Ted Kennedy. Most analysts agree that Ross Perot’s third-party bid in 1992 siphoned off more votes from George H.W. Bush than Clinton.

  381. avatar
    Rickey August 27, 2011 at 12:07 pm #

    john mirse:
    Rickey wrote:By the way, I’m still waiting for you to admit that Obama’s Zip Code in the mid-seventies was 96814.
    ********Yes, it look like you were right.It seems that in1976 or 1977 when Hawaiin teenager Obama applied for his Social Security card, hisHawaii zip code for S. Beretania St. was 96814.

    It also looks like Obama’s home address of S. Beretania St.had its zip code changedsometime between 1977 and 1980 to 96826,because Obama put zip code 96826 on his Selective Service form that he signed inJuly 1980.

    Okay?

    Congratulations – a birther who actually concedes a point.

    Now you just have to recognize that there was no reason for Obama to obtain a fraudulent SSN. We know that the State Department confirmed Obama’s U.S. citizenship prior to his family’s move to Indonesia, so clearly he was eligible to apply for a SSN. So why do you believe that he is using a fraudulent SSN? And how has he been able to get away with it for 35 years? One would think that the SSA or the IRS would have caught on by now.

  382. avatar
    richCares August 27, 2011 at 1:21 pm #

    “confirmed Obama’s U.S. citizenship”
    actually, you don’t need to be a citizen to obtain a SSN, my wife was an alien, she had a SSN. (after we retired, she applied for and obtained citizenship)
    .
    However I am curious about what evil thing Obama did as a teen to get a fraudelent SSN.
    as IRS and SSA don’t have a problem with it, what is mirse’s and Orly’s obsession with it all about. was the teen Obama an alien, with his big ears maybe from Vulcan.
    .
    do birthers enjoy being made fools of as was Trump, is mirse trying to emulate Trump?

  383. avatar
    Rickey August 27, 2011 at 2:02 pm #

    richCares:
    “confirmed Obama’s U.S. citizenship”
    actually, you don’t need to be a citizen to obtain a SSN, my wife was an alien, she had a SSN.(after we retired, she applied for and obtained citizenship)
    .

    True enough, although the fact that his U.S. citizenship had already been confirmed precludes any plausible motivation for him to obtain a fraudulent SSN.

    John Mirse should be prepared to answer the following questions.

    1. Given that Obama’s citizenship was confirmed by the State Department in the sixties, why would he have gone to the trouble of intentionally getting a SSN with a Connecticut prefix when he clearly was eligible for a SSN with a Hawaii prefix?

    2. Why is Obama’s SSN not associated with any other name in any database?

    3. Obama has been making FICA contributions since his first job at Baskin-Robbins and he has been filing Federal Income Tax returns for more than 30 years. If the SSN he has been using is not his, why haven’t the IRS and SSA noticed it?

    4. If Obama hasn’t shown a legitimate birth certificate, how did he obtain a driver’s license, how did he register to vote, and how did he obtain a U.S. passport?

  384. avatar
    dunstvangeet August 27, 2011 at 8:16 pm #

    John,

    The reason why we don’t go over to Free Republic, is every one of us has been banned from Free Republic for nothing more than actually providing facts and arguments against the birthers there. Take Loren, for instance. He was on Free Republic, taking the arguments there. He was banned because the Free Republic people got tired of him. He’s far from a Obot. In fact, I don’t even know if he even voted for Obama in 2008.

    Every single person here who has gone over there has had a simular experience. You have to basically be a birther to even go over to that site. If we treated you the same way that Free Republic treats us, you’d be banned after your first birther post.

  385. avatar
    dunstvangeet August 27, 2011 at 8:22 pm #

    I don’t understand the William Henry Harrison thing. I’d refuse to rank him because he literally was only in office for 1 month, and spent most of that month sick in bed with pneumonia. I’d just refuse to rank him…

  386. avatar
    G August 27, 2011 at 8:40 pm #

    John, I’m going to take you at your word for what you posted on why you came here.

    I think that is a valid reason and I applaud if you came here simply out of curiosity, instead of what really came across initially as just trolling and concern trolling. We’ve seen way to many folks who have no intention of honest dialogue and have been burned to many times in the past by folks who come here spouting similar to how you have, only to find that they fully intented to just be an jack*ss and stir up a ruckus the other time.

    Hence, I hope you understand how that can lead to a heightened sense of trigger hostility when we see certain things posted and people just come here and start making a lot of posts out of nowhere.

    However, you will find that people are treated here over time by how they act and react. We have a number of posters that initially came here as birthers, but were able to move from making insults or just spouting long debunked stories that led to them being ridiculed and not taken seriously, to eventually moving to having an actual non-confrontational dialogue and conversation (for the most part).

    How people will respond to you is based on how you come across and treat them as well. If you want a respectful dialogue, you can find it here…but you’ll have to show sincere effort to build up credibility.

    We are not hostile to other perspectives – we just want sincere reality & fact based dialogue and not just repetition of a bunch of simplistic and tired sloganeering, myths and zombie memes.

    If you wish to avoid taunts and name calling, tone down your statements that tend to invoke such responses.

    Several came here as birthers and have turned into welcome regulars – Charo and Joyeagle for example. At times, there are still areas of contention that crop up between different folks and their opinions, but overall, they have become part of the community here and they both are able to add value and a different perspective on topics that can be helpful to reflect on. I for one always enjoy when they come here and add to the conversation and am grateful for what I’ve gotten to know about and learn from them.

    Plus, as previously mentioned, we’ve got some truly outstanding regular conservative voices, such as Daniel and John Reilley and several others who are from different parts of the conservative perspective, which really have contributed some outstanding posts and POV on topics and often have given the rest of us whole new insights into how to look at things that might never have occured in our own thinking patterns.

    If you kindly ask them, I believe they will tell you that although they often have opinions that differ from many of the more liberal perspectives that are shared, they are treated with respect and are able to have a healthy dialogue here to everyone’s benefit. The biggest difference here is that they usually provide adult and sincere dialogue and therefore usually get the same in response. They are respectful to others and hence have earned respect in return.

    john mirse: Rickey wrote: As for participating in birther blogs such as Free Republic and ORYR, what’s the point? A year ago or so I posted a note over there that I have a conservative textbook by right-wing scholar Cleon Skousen which says that there is no difference between a native born citizen and a natural born citizen. I was immediately banned.*********It was wrong for FreeRepublic to ban you. If I ran the site, I wouldn’t have banned you as long as you were civil and didn’t start calling other posters insulting names. One reason I came here was that it starts getting boring after a while discussing Obama issues with other posters who are already critical of Obama. I came here because I wanted to see what the other side—-the pro-Obama side—thought about such issues like Obama’s Social Security number and Obama’s long form birth certificate. My time here has been very interesting to say the least. Again, I think it was wrong to ban you from the FreeRepublic site as long as you respected the other posters and did not call the other posters foul names. That is, the severe way you have criticized my messages here would be acceptable to me at FreeRepublic if I ran the site.

  387. avatar
    El Diablo Negro August 27, 2011 at 9:34 pm #

    john mirse: Is Beck running for President? If he is, its the first I have heard about it.

    So, we should only look into alleged wrongdoing if running for President?

    Wheres my hacksaw..(j/k)

  388. avatar
    john mirse August 27, 2011 at 10:48 pm #

    El Diablo Negro August 27, 2011 at 9:34 pm (Quote) #

    john mirse: Is Beck running for President? If he is, its the first I have heard about it.

    So, we should only look into alleged wrongdoing if running for President?

    Wheres my hacksaw..(j/k)
    **********

    You do realize that the Beck rape story that first appeared in 2009 is a hoax, a satire, a parody, a joke? A quick search on Google will tell you so. The crime supposedly occurred in 1990, about 20 years ago.

    The fake story first appeared in 2009, and even the police have not looked into it and arrested Beck in the two years that have passed, because they know that the story is a hoax, a parody, a joke.

    I guess it is difficult for any police department to investigate a murder and rape crime if the rape victim’s name and residence is not known. which is convenient, because one can’t call the police department where the crime supposedly occurred if there is no name. no address, and no description of the victim that might have occurred 20 years ago.

    And it is even more difficult to investigate a crime if not even the parents, other relatives, and friends of this unknown victim come forward to accuse Beck of the crimes in the past 20 years.

    So basically, we have Beck accused of raping and murdering a mysterious, anonymous victim in 1990 who has no family, no friends, no name, no address, and no description.

    It is difficult for any police department to investigate a crime with no evidence that a crime was even committed or if a victim even exists, especially if we are talking about a crime that occurred 20 years ago in 1990.

    The 2009 story is a hoax, a satire, a parody, a joke.

    It is a story about a 1990 rape and murder victim who has no name, no address, no parents, no friends, no relatives and no description.

    And anyone who goes around spreading this Beck 1990 rape and murder story as if it were true even though information on the internet verifies that the story is a hoax, satire, joke, has got to be one mentally sick person.

  389. avatar
    misha August 27, 2011 at 11:17 pm #

    john mirse: the story is a hoax, a parody, a joke.

    So you think such a heinous crime is a joke? Typical conservative.

    john mirse: anyone who goes around spreading this Beck 1990 rape and murder story…has got to be one mentally sick person.

    I’ll tell you what’s sick: Glenn Beck’s living with the burden of what happened to that poor girl. It doesn’t bother him, or otherwise he’d release his criminal record abstract stamped “subject has clear record to date.”

    SHOW US YOUR RECORDS BECK!!!

  390. avatar
    Majority Will August 27, 2011 at 11:30 pm #

    misha: So you think such a heinous crime is a joke? Typical conservative.

    I’ll tell you what’s sick: Glenn Beck’s living with the burden of what happened to that poor girl. It doesn’t bother him, or otherwise he’d release his criminal record abstract stamped “subject has clear record to date.”

    SHOW US YOUR RECORDS BECK!!!

    Well done. 🙂

    SHOW US YOUR RECORDS BECK!!!

  391. avatar
    obsolete August 27, 2011 at 11:33 pm #

    John Mirse,
    Why do you defend Glenn Beck so much (when you aren’t even a fan of his) from an obvious hoax when you cannot admit you fell for the hoax about Obama being a foreign student with foreign aid?

    Can you also see now how some folks who aren’t big fans of Obama defend him from obvious lies, just as you defend Glenn Beck while not being a “BeckBot”?

    I also believe that if you start posting on FreeRepublic what you admitted to us (Obama’s zip code was one digit off from a CT zip code) you will eventually be banned as an Obot.

  392. avatar
    Majority Will August 27, 2011 at 11:38 pm #

    “And anyone who goes around spreading this Beck 1990 rape and murder story as if it were true even though information on the internet verifies that the story is a hoax, satire, joke, has got to be one mentally sick person.”

    Expect another earthquake any moment now as the Irony Meters Factory erupts into a colossal fireball and mushroom cloud.

    o.0

  393. avatar
    Majority Will August 27, 2011 at 11:41 pm #

    obsolete: Why do you defend Glenn Beck so much (when you aren’t even a fan of his) from an obvious hoax when you cannot admit you fell for the hoax about Obama being a foreign student with foreign aid?

    It’s pretty obvious that “john mirse” is hiding something.

  394. avatar
    misha August 27, 2011 at 11:45 pm #

    obsolete: John Mirse,
    Why do you defend Glenn Beck so much

    Yeah, and Mirse is silent about Ann Coulter. She never denied having an abortion at Planned Parenthood. Maybe she had it at Walgreens, like Fox and Friends suggested.

  395. avatar
    Majority Will August 27, 2011 at 11:47 pm #

    misha: Yeah, and Mirse is silent about Ann Coulter. She never denied having an abortion at Planned Parenthood. Maybe she had it at Walgreens, like Fox and Friends suggested.

    Excellent point. It’s more proof that “john mirse” is hiding something. How much money do you think he has spent hiding this information? I’ll bet it’s a LOT.

  396. avatar
    J. Potter August 28, 2011 at 12:12 am #

    That is like, 90% of what Panned Parenthood does, isn’t it? (before flaming, please note: this is a sarcastic reference to a winger meme!)

    misha: Yeah, and Mirse is silent about Ann Coulter. She never denied having an abortion at Planned Parenthood. Maybe she had it at Walgreens, like Fox and Friends suggested.

  397. avatar
    misha August 28, 2011 at 12:21 am #

    J. Potter: That is like, 90% of what Panned Parenthood does, isn’t it?

    Ann Coulter is a tranny. # Not a factual statement.
    Donald Trump’s “hair” is actually a badger. # Not a factual statement.
    Orly Taitz eats pork. # Not a factual statement. Maybe.
    Jon Kyl cruises men’s bathrooms. # Not a factual statement. Maybe.

  398. avatar
    Majority Will August 28, 2011 at 12:50 am #

    john mirse: And anyone who goes around spreading this Beck 1990 rape and murder story as if it were true even though information on the internet verifies that the story is a hoax, satire, joke, has got to be one mentally sick person.

    So, repeatedly defaming and accusing an honorable person without credible evidence is a sign of mental illness? You might be right about that.

    Witness the amazing, revealing insight of “john mirse” at:

    http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2702783/replies?c=41

  399. avatar
    john mirse August 28, 2011 at 1:36 am #

    Majority Will wrote; john mirse: And anyone who goes around spreading this Beck 1990 rape and murder story as if it were true even though information on the internet verifies that the story is a hoax, satire, joke, has got to be one mentally sick person.

    So, repeatedly defaming and accusing an honorable person without credible evidence is a sign of mental illness? You might be right about that.

    Witness the amazing, revealing insight of “john mirse” at:

    http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2702783/replies?c=41
    **********
    Are you mentally sick or what?

    Saying that calling a public official a lair is the same as accusing a famous person of committing a rape and murder of a nameless victim 20 years ago is very sick act on your part. You need help.

    For instance, it would be one thing if a poster called Dr. C a liar or a fraud when it comes to his opinions concerning conspiracy theories surrounding Obama, but it would be an entirely worse thing and a very sick act on the part of the poster to accuse Dr. C of raping and murdering a nameless person 20 years ago without any evidence whatsoever such as the victim’s name or address or description or the name of the place where the rape or murder was supposed to have taken place 20 years ago.

    If you don’t know the serious difference between calling someone like a politician or public official a liar and accusing a famous person of being a rapist and a murderer without any evidence whatsoever of a nameless, anonymous person 20 years ago, then
    you need to find some serious mental health help.

  400. avatar
    john mirse August 28, 2011 at 1:57 am #

    dunstvangeet August 27, 2011 at 8:16 pm (Quote) #

    John,

    The reason why we don’t go over to Free Republic, is every one of us has been banned from Free Republic for nothing more than actually providing facts and arguments against the birthers there. Take Loren, for instance. He was on Free Republic, taking the arguments there. He was banned because the Free Republic people got tired of him. He’s far from a Obot. In fact, I don’t even know if he even voted for Obama in 2008.

    Every single person here who has gone over there has had a simular experience. You have to basically be a birther to even go over to that site. If we treated you the same way that Free Republic treats us, you’d be banned after your first birther post.
    ********
    As I have said before, if I were controlling FreeRepublic, I would be more lenient in allowing persons to post both pro-Obama and anti-Obama messages there.

    As long as a poster was civil to other posters, and he did not insult other posters by calling them names such as calling another poster a lunatic or a mentally deranged person, I would let the person post at free republic.

    I believe that a message board needs to have diverse and often opposing points of view
    on topics if it wants to remain an exciting place to visit day after day.

  401. avatar
    john mirse August 28, 2011 at 2:59 am #

    Majority Will wrote: Like you, the idiot who fell for the Occidental College April Fool’s Joke* but are too much of a coward and hypocrite to admit it?

    *(http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2748631/posts?page=65#65)

    Birthers are such idiots.
    ********
    Why do you say that I fell for some April Fool’s Joke about Obama and Occidental college?

    I re-read my message that you quoted from Free Republic, and I can’t figure out why you say that I fell for the Occidental joke.

    In fact, I want Obama to release his Occidental and Columbia undergraduate records so that we either prove or disapprove that he registered as a foreign student in order to be eligible for better financial aid. As of now, we can’t be sure if he did or did not. because Obama won’t tell us and he won’t release his college records.

    We have a college student who shared a two bedroom apartment in Hawaii with his grandparents, but who yet ended up at an expensive private college in California. I wonder how such a college student supported himself at Occidental, especially when we have no evidence that Obama had a job while at Occidental.

    Did President Obama’s mother and/or grandparents, and Obama himself help pay for Obama’s tuition and room and board?

    I would think that even in the 1970s Occidental was an expensive private college, especially if you were not from California.

    NOTE: Just wondering: I wonder what other colleges Obama applied to and was accepted before he chose Occidental. I also wonder why he chose Occidental, when it looks like he had never visited California or Occidental before he enrolled at Occidental, an excellent college from what I read about it on the internet.

    Did President Obama take out college loans that he had to pay back someday, or did he pay his way by claiming to be a foreign student so that he could be eligible for better financial aid that he might not have to pay back later? Obama is not talking What is he hiding?

    Obama could quickly answer questions about how he paid for his college expenses by allowing Occidental and Columbia to release his records. But he hasn’t done so, and it looks like he won’t do so during this 2012 presidential campaign.

    As far as the April Fools joke, as I recall, most birthers knew it was a joke from the first time it was posted at FreeRepublic, because there were no college documents accompanying the April Fool’s joke to back up key statements in the joke, and I believe that there were parts of the article/joke that were questionable.

  402. avatar
    Rickey August 28, 2011 at 4:21 am #

    john mirse:
    I also wonder why he chose Occidental, when it looks like he had never visited California or Occidental before he enrolled at Occidental, an excellent college from what I read about it on the internet.

    Did President Obama take out college loans that he had to pay back someday,or did he pay his way by claiming to be a foreign student so that he could be eligible for better financial aid that he might not have to pay back later? Obama is not talking. What is he hiding?

    Why do you assume that Obama never visited California prior to enrolling at Occidental? We don’t know if he visited the campus before he was enrolled. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. It certainly wouldn’t be unusual if he didn’t.

    We know that Obama took out student loans, because nine people were indicted last year for illegally accessing his student loan records.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/9-indicted-on-charges-of-apf-2420250618.html?x=0.v=1

    And have you never heard of scholarships? Why should Obama have to explain how he paid for college, when no other candidate for President has ever done so? Did you ever ask Bill Clinton how he was able to afford to go to Georgetown University?

    Once again you make accusations without a shred of evidence to support them.

  403. avatar
    john mirse August 28, 2011 at 5:22 am #

    Rickey wrote: We know that Obama took out student loans, because nine people were indicted last year for illegally accessing his student loan records.
    *********
    Are government college loans part of the public record?

    Do you really think that Obama received an academic scholarship to private college Occidental, when I think by Obama’s own admission, he was not the best of students.

    I don’t think he received a basketball scholarship, although I understand that he was a pretty good player.

    If Obama received college loans, why won’t he tell us? What is the big deal?

    And what about his stay at Columbia, an expensive Ivy League university? If Obama received college loans to attend Columbia, then why won’t he tell us? What is the big deal?

    Those people who looked at Obama’s college loan records, does anyone know what they found? Did they go to jail?

  404. avatar
    Keith August 28, 2011 at 7:02 am #

    john mirse: I also wonder why he chose Occidental, when it looks like he had never visited California or Occidental before he enrolled at Occidental, an excellent college from what I read about it on the internet.

    I applied and was accepted at Penn State, University of Michigan, and Ohio State without ever visiting any of those campuses (campi?). All schools with excellent reputations long before the internet. I chose to go elsewhere, for better or worse; it was my decision, my decision alone, and who the effing heck cares outside of me, myself, and I.

    Well may you wonder why Obama chose Occidental. Maybe he met a girl that was going to Occidental, or he thought he could be a pretty good surfer. Maybe he read a paper by a lecturer there that caught his imagination. Maybe it was the only mainland school that gave him the best scholarship, or his local Kiwanis sponsored him and that was the school they were associated with. Or maybe he just liked the idea of being a student in Los Angeles and wanted to be part of a small school instead of getting lost at UCLA or USC. What the effing heck does it matter?

    Would you have been more comfortable had he gone to Cal or U Chicago? Maybe you would be more comfortable calling him a lefty then? Is Occidental and Colombia too centrist for you? Well tough. He went to the school he went to, because he made the decision to go to that school. Why does anybody go to Occidental? What the effing heck does it matter?

    Why did you go to the school you went to and some other school and more importantly who gives a flying fornication either way? Occidental is a perfectly reasonable school, a “top tier liberal arts college”: It is more than just stupid trying to second guess his decision, made when he was 17 or 18 years old,it is patronizing and rude.

    Exactly how is it any of your effing business?

  405. avatar
    Keith August 28, 2011 at 7:13 am #

    Keith: Why did you go to the school you went to and some other school and more importantly who gives a flying fornication either way?

    I meant:

    Why did you go to the school you went to instead of some other school and more importantly who gives a flying fornication either way?

    I gotta stop posting after a night out on the turps. (since you ask it involved some Spanish Bubbly, a 76 Birk’s Wendourie Shiraz, a 77 St. Leonard’s Wagunyah Shiraz, a 78 Bailys of Glenrowan Cabernet Sauvignon, a 2000 Shantell Shiraz, and a lovely dessert wine that I can’t recall the name of between the 8 of us).

  406. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 28, 2011 at 9:08 am #

    Perhaps it was a need-based scholarship. My kid had a perfect score on the SAT and the Advanced Math and English SAT and I couldn’t get him a scholarship to UC Berkeley.

    john mirse: Do you really think that Obama received an academic scholarship to private college Occidental, when I think by Obama’s own admission, he was not the best of students.

  407. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 28, 2011 at 9:18 am #

    So your are admitting that your suspicions are baseless? If you didn’t take the April Fool story as fact, then there is no evidence-based reason to have any suspicions, and yours then must be based solely on a prejudice against Barack Obama. Typical birther. And also typical birther for irresponsible ignorance about the facts. It also suggests prejudice against foreigners when you hint that you believe that foreign students have it easier getting financial aid that US students (which is the opposite of the truth).

    john mirse: I re-read my message that you quoted from Free Republic, and I can’t figure out why you say that I fell for the Occidental joke.

    In fact, I want Obama to release his Occidental and Columbia undergraduate records so that we either prove or disapprove that he registered as a foreign student in order to be eligible for better financial aid.

  408. avatar
    Majority Will August 28, 2011 at 12:00 pm #

    john mirse: Why do you say that I fell for some April Fool’s Joke about Obama and Occidental college?

    I re-read my message that you quoted from Free Republic, and I can’t figure out why you say that I fell for the Occidental joke.

    Sometimes I have a difficult time understanding how you and your birther brethren can be so obtuse.

  409. avatar
    Stanislaw August 28, 2011 at 12:30 pm #

    Majority Will: Sometimes I have a difficult time understanding how you and your birther brethren can be so obtuse.

    I don’t.

  410. avatar
    Expelliarmus August 28, 2011 at 3:14 pm #

    Keith: john mirse: I also wonder why he chose Occidental, when it looks like he had never visited California or Occidental before he enrolled at Occidental, an excellent college from what I read about it on the internet.

    I applied and was accepted at Penn State, University of Michigan, and Ohio State without ever visiting any of those campuses (campi?).

    Obama attended a top private prep school in Honolulu; as such, he probably received excellent college advising at his school, and representatives from various college probably visited his high school regularly to meet with and interview students. Small private colleges on the US west coast were probably very keen to do so, as it is very common for Hawaiian students to come to California or other western states for college.

    Occidental is now a very well regarded private liberal arts college, but even into the 90’s it was less well regarded, as college admissions in general was far less competitive in those days. But one strength of Occidental is that it has historically been more ethnically diverse than many other private colleges, something that would probably have been appealing to Obama when choosing colleges (and may also reflect a reason why the college would have been keen to have Obama enroll).

    Obama also applied to (and was rejected by) Swarthmore, one of the very top liberal arts colleges in the country.

    The cost of private college in the late 70’s was nothing like it is today — tuition might have been in the range of $5000/annually, plus room and board. (Probably less– I chose a highly regarded public law school in 1974 because I thought $3500 annual tuition at the privates was too high). Even if Obama’s grades from high school weren’t that great, because he was coming from Punahou would have probably made him attractive to many private colleges — a B student at Punahou would be easily seen as the equivalent of an A student at most public high schools, given the fact that the private school academic expectations are much more rigorous.

    I’d also add that there is no evidence whatsoever that Obama didn’t visit Occidental college or other colleges; it is actually quite likely that he did. Even public high schools typically organize college tours for student groups, typically taking place during spring break of their junior years — so I would think that it is more likely than not that Punahou also provides ample opportunity for their students to visit colleges. Though it is far more likely that Obama visited Swarthmore & other east coast colleges, opting to skip the visit to his “safety”. It’s also typical that students visit their top choice colleges before applying, and only visit their backup schools after their top choices reject them. On the other hand, its also fairly common for the less prestigious private colleges to pay airfare of students they would like to entice to visit them — so Obama may very well have been flown out to Occidental sometime during his high school senior year, if Occidental was keen on recruiting Punahou students at the time.

  411. avatar
    Expelliarmus August 28, 2011 at 3:17 pm #

    john mirse: If Obama received college loans, why won’t he tell us? What is the big deal?

    He did. I can’t even begin to count the number of times during his campaign speeches he referenced the fact that he and his wife had only recently paid off their college loans. See http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/money.asp

  412. avatar
    john mirse August 28, 2011 at 3:28 pm #

    Dr. C wrote: Perhaps it was a need-based scholarship. My kid had a perfect score on the SAT and the Advanced Math and English SAT and I couldn’t get him a scholarship to UC Berkeley.
    ********
    You could be right. Obama could also easily prove that he received a need-based scholarship as an American citizen and not as a foreign citizen by simply releasing his Occidental records. What is he hiding?

    You don’t seem to have any problem voluntarily telling us about how your kid couldn’t get a scholarship when no one here asked you for such private family information, so why can’t President Obama voluntarily tell us something like this: “I received need-based financial aid as an American citizen and not as foreign student in my two years at Occidental.”

    He could do so without telling us anything about his grades or the classes he took.

    Why did Obama go to the trouble of going to court to prevent Occidental from releasing his records, if he is not hiding anything, because he had to pay the high-priced lawyers this time out of his own pocket and not out of the taxpayers’ pockets?

    Again, what is Obama hiding that is in his Occidental records?

  413. avatar
    El Diablo Negro August 28, 2011 at 3:33 pm #

    john mirse: If you don’t know the serious difference between calling someone like a politician or public official a liar and accusing a famous person of being a rapist and a murderer without any evidence whatsoever of a nameless, anonymous person 20 years ago, then
    you need to find some serious mental health help.

    Well, neither is right and “two wrongs don’t make a right” as my dad would say. Evil is Evil in my book, just some want to justify their evil.

  414. avatar
    Sef August 28, 2011 at 3:45 pm #

    john mirse: Again, what is Obama hiding that is in his Occidental records?

    Could you please explain to us why you think this is any of your g*d* business.

  415. avatar
    Stanislaw August 28, 2011 at 3:46 pm #

    Expelliarmus: He did.I can’t even begin to count the number of times during his campaign speeches he referenced the fact that he and his wife had only recently paid off their college loans.See http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/money.asp

    It’s just too bad that this won’t stop our resident birther from desperately grasping at straws in his weak attempts to prove that the President is “hiding” something.

  416. avatar
    Majority Will August 28, 2011 at 3:56 pm #

    john mirse: Are you mentally sick or what?

    Saying that calling a public official a lair is the same as accusing a famous person of committing a rape and murder of a nameless victim 20 years ago is very sick act on your part. You need help.

    You’re projecting again.

  417. avatar
    john mirse August 28, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    Majority Will wrote: john mirse: Why do you say that I fell for some April Fool’s Joke about Obama and Occidental college?

    I re-read my message that you quoted from Free Republic, and I can’t figure out why you say that I fell for the Occidental joke.

    Sometimes I have a difficult time understanding how you and your birther brethren can be so obtuse.
    **********
    I wasn’t sure what April Fool’s Joke you were referring to, so I did some research on google, and google helped me to remember why I had problems with one particular April Fool’s Joke.

    I am not sure if the one I going to write about is the same April Fool’s Joke you are accusing me of falling for, but here is why I had problems with one particular Occidental April Fool’s Joke:

    . Fulbright Scholarship: One April Fool’s Joke said that freshman Obama received a Fulbright scholarship to attend Occidental.

    I went to school with a person who received a Fulbright scholarship. I was pretty sure that the scholarship was a graduate school level scholarship that was given to students with excellent undergraduate grades and who were very active in campus activities.

    So I wondered how freshman undergraduate student Obama was able to receive a Fulbright Scholarship.

    Obama goes to court to prevent Occidental from releasing his record. As I read the April Fool’s Joke, I became suspicious when the person wrote that Occidental released Obama’s records, because I knew that Obama went to court to prevent Occidental from releasing his records and won.

    I thought that maybe the person had access to Obama records that someone had stolen from Occidental, but when the person did not back up his claim that Occidental released Obama’s records by displaying copies of those records on the internet, I figured that something was seriously wrong with the person’s claims.

    As I said earlier, many of us at FreeRepublic quickly labeled the person’s letter a clever hoax just a short time after it appeared on the internet.

  418. avatar
    Majority Will August 28, 2011 at 4:02 pm #

    john mirse: If you don’t know the serious difference . . .

    I’m not surprised you created a false equivalence and completely missed the point.

    Wrong is wrong and your posts have proven you have a great difficulty distinguishing right from wrong.

    You justify your defamation and false accusations with weak excuses, illogic and the same bigotry that pushed you to make conclusions first and then seek the evidence you needed to support your stupidity.

  419. avatar
    roadburner August 28, 2011 at 4:19 pm #

    john mirse: I just want him to allow Kapiolani Hospital to release his Aug. 4, 1961 records, to allow Hawaii officials to release his original long form birth certificate, and to release his Social Security original application so that we can see why the first 3 digits refer to Connecticut instead of to Hawaii. .

    and i want a fire-breathing blue unicorn that shits glitter.

    guess we´re both out of luck

  420. avatar
    G August 28, 2011 at 4:23 pm #

    Where is your evidence that he went to court for that? Sounds like you are just making up more nonsense.

    Colleges have privacy rules, plain and simple. They have policies that prevent the release of various private records of their students. Obama doesn’t have anything to do with that.

    I fail to see any relevance to any of your insincere concern trolling on this silly topic.

    You have NO basis for any of your weird speculative smears, other than you suffer from a massive obsessive dose of ODS and you waste too much of your life desperately wishing you could find any scrap of smear material to justify your personal emotional biases.

    Frankly, I find that to be the sign of a very petty and troubled person.

    john mirse: Why did Obama go to the trouble of going to court to prevent Occidental from releasing his records, if he is not hiding anything, because he had to pay the high-priced lawyers this time out of his own pocket and not out of the taxpayers’ pockets?

  421. avatar
    Joey August 28, 2011 at 4:24 pm #

    Barry Obama attended Occidental on a full academic scholarship. He went there because he had met a girl that he liked who was from the Brentwood Section of Los Angeles when she was vacationing in Hawaii.

    “Occidental recalls ‘Barry’ Obama”

    The Eagle Rock liberal arts college is quick to claim the Illinois Democrat as an alum. He says he has ‘fond memories’ of the school.

    January 29, 2007|Larry Gordon | Los Angele Times Staff Writer

    Memories of 1980 at Occidental College’s Haines Hall have the standard fragments of the era: stereos blasting the B-52’s through the dorm, pot-fueled bull sessions about the revival of draft registration, late-night cramming for economics exams.

    That otherwise private nostalgia took on public significance this month when a former Haines Hall resident from Hawaii known at the time as Barry announced that he was forming an exploratory committee to run for president of the United States.

    U.S. Sen. Barack Obama is usually described as an alumnus of Columbia University, where he earned his bachelor’s degree, and of Harvard Law School.

    But the Illinois Democrat began his undergraduate education at Occidental, and the 1,825-student liberal arts college in the Eagle Rock neighborhood of Los Angeles isn’t shy about claiming him as an alumnus for his two years there (1979-81) on full scholarship. Perhaps, some think, it’s where his political and oratory skills were nurtured.

    Despite the somewhat awkward facts that Obama transferred from Occidental and that his official website biography doesn’t even mention the campus, old friends and former teachers at the well-regarded 120-year-old school proudly described him as a serious scholar and a good athlete who helped the JV Tigers basketball team to an undefeated season.

    Though some express surprise at his current prominence, classmates recall a slim, good-looking teen with a moderate Afro, a taste for Casa Bianca’s Hawaiian-style pizza (pineapple and ham) and a role in protesting college investments in firms doing business in South Africa during the apartheid era.

    In his 1995 autobiography, “Dreams From My Father,” Obama recounted how he was accepted into “several respectable” colleges but chose Occidental “mainly because I’d met a girl from Brentwood while she was vacationing in Hawaii.”

    On Friday, in an e-mailed response to questions from The Times, Obama said he had “fond memories” of Occidental. “It’s a wonderful, small liberal arts college. The professors were diverse and inspiring. I ended up making some lifelong friendships there, and those first two years really helped me grow up.”

    Roger Boesche, a professor of politics who’s cited as Obama’s intellectual mentor at Occidental, said the young man from Honolulu was “a very thoughtful student and a very curious student.”

    Obama enrolled in two of Boesche’s courses: a survey of American government and political thought from the Revolution through the civil rights movement and an advanced look at modern European political thought, which tackled such philosophers as Friedrich Nietzsche and Max Weber.

    “You didn’t take my European Modern class without wanting to think about deep ideas,” said Boesche. Teacher and student later lost touch until Obama, then an Illinois state senator, ran for the U.S. Senate in 2004 and Boesche launched a warm e-mail correspondence.

    Eric Newhall, a professor of American studies and American literature at Occidental, said Obama played with flair as a fiercely competitive guard in faculty-student pickup basketball games.

    Excerpt, to read the rest of the article:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jan/29/local/me-oxy29

  422. avatar
    john mirse August 28, 2011 at 4:31 pm #

    Expelliarmus August 28, 2011 at 3:17 pm (Quote) #

    john mirse: If Obama received college loans, why won’t he tell us? What is the big deal?

    He did. I can’t even begin to count the number of times during his campaign speeches he referenced the fact that he and his wife had only recently paid off their college loans. See http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/money.asp
    *********
    President Obama attended three colleges as far as we know: Occidental in California, Columbia in New York City, and Harvard Law School.

    Do you happen to know if Obama said anything about how those college loans were spread out over those 3 colleges, 3 colleges that are expensive colleges?

    Was Obama referring to only college loans he received at certain colleges he attended, because he did not use college loans at all 3 colleges? Maybe he received scholarships at certain colleges, while he used college loans at other colleges.

    Did Obama say what the total amount of the those college loans was?

  423. avatar
    Rickey August 28, 2011 at 4:34 pm #

    john mirse:
    Rickey wrote: We know that Obama took out student loans, because nine people were indicted last year for illegally accessing his student loan records.
    *********
    Are government college loans part of the public record?

    Do you really think that Obama received an academic scholarship to private college Occidental, when I think by Obama’s own admission, he was not the best of students.

    Those people who looked at Obama’s college loan records, does anyone know what they found?Did they go to jail?

    Student loans are not part of the public record. You have no right to see my student loan records, I have no right to see your student loan records, and neither of us has any right to see Obama’s student loan records. However, it is unquestionably a fact that Obama received student loans.

    And who said anything about an academic scholarship? As Doc C. pointed out, there are financial need scholarships, Pell Grants, and numerous other sources of financial aid.

    As for the people who were indicted for illegally accessing Obama’s student loan records, why don’t you do your own research and find out what happened to them?

    Did you ever question how Bill Clinton was able to afford to attend Georgetown, an expensive private university? Why not?

  424. avatar
    Stanislaw August 28, 2011 at 4:36 pm #

    G:
    Where is your evidence that he went to court for that?Sounds like you are just making up more nonsense.

    We’re almost into “why has he spent $2 million” territory. He’s hitting most of the required birther talking points so it’s only a matter of time.

  425. avatar
    El Diablo Negro August 28, 2011 at 4:40 pm #

    john mirse: Did Obama say what the total amount of the those college loans was?

    If you expect Presidents to be 100% open booked about their lives, you are going to be severely disappointed. Who really cares about student loans this much anyway?

    So you want the President to show his records? Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is fraud. Then you might have a case.

  426. avatar
    Rickey August 28, 2011 at 4:41 pm #

    john mirse:
    Expelliarmus August 28, 2011 at 3:17 pm(Quote) #

    john mirse: If Obama received college loans, why won’t he tell us? What is the big deal?

    He did. I can’t even begin to count the number of times during his campaign speeches he referenced the fact that he and his wife had only recently paid off their college loans. See http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/money.asp
    *********
    President Obama attended three colleges as far as we know: Occidental in California, Columbia in New York City, and Harvard Law School.

    Do you happen to know if Obama said anything about how those college loans were spread out over those 3 colleges,3 colleges that are expensive colleges?

    Was Obama referring to only college loans he received at certain colleges he attended, because he did not use college loans at all 3 colleges? Maybe he received scholarships at certain colleges, while he used college loans at other colleges.

    Did Obama say what the total amount of the those college loans was?

    What possible relevance would any of that have to do with his eligibility to be President?

  427. avatar
    Stanislaw August 28, 2011 at 4:50 pm #

    john mirse:
    Expelliarmus August 28, 2011 at 3:17 pm(Quote) #

    Was Obama referring to only college loans he received atcertain colleges he attended, because he did notuse college loans at all 3 colleges? Maybe he received scholarships at certain colleges, while he used college loans at other colleges.

    Did Obama say what the total amount of the those college loans was?

    Why does any of this matter? None of it is relevant to eligibility. Haven’t you gotten tired of grasping at straws yet?

  428. avatar
    john mirse August 28, 2011 at 4:53 pm #

    Joey wrote: August 28, 2011 at 4:24 pm (Quote) #

    Barry Obama attended Occidental on a full academic scholarship. He went there because he had met a girl that he liked who was from the Brentwood Section of Los Angeles when she was vacationing in Hawaii.
    ********
    So it looks like Barry Obama did not use college loans at Occidental, because he had a full academic scholarship.

    Amazing. Obama gave up a full academic scholarship at prestigious Occidental in California to go all the way across the country to attend Columbia in New York.

    Maybe it was at Columbia that Obama first used college loans to pay his expenses.

    Does anyone know if Obama’s mother was working in New York at the time, and that could have been the reason why Obama transferred to Columbia?

    Is it hard for transfer students to attend Columbia? I think some colleges make it difficult for transfer students to apply for admission.

    Was he known as “Barry” at Occidental? If he was, does anyone know when he began using “Barack” instead of “Barry”?

    Are there any pictures of this girl from Brentwood in Los Angeles who Joey says Obama met in Hawaii?

  429. avatar
    Stanislaw August 28, 2011 at 5:19 pm #

    Rickey: What possible relevance would any of that have to do with his eligibility to be President?

    The answer is “none.” Like all birthers, mirse asks irrelevant questions that he knows probably won’t be answered. If those questions aren’t answered he can claim that there’s a coverup.

    On the other hand, if those questions are answered and the answer given happens to be one that he personally disagrees with, he’ll ignore the answer and ask the question again hoping for a different answer. It’s the oldest trick in the birther book.

  430. avatar
    Joey August 28, 2011 at 5:34 pm #

    In Dreams From My Father, Obama says that he and Occidental/Columbia roommate Phil Boehner made a decision together to apply for admission to Columbia. For Obama, he said that he was “lonely” at Occidental and he wanted a more urban and diverse educational experience.
    “Obama’s Lessons For Transfer Students:” US News and World Report:
    http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/01/16/obamas-lessons-for-transfer-students.
    Ann Dunham never worked in New York. Ann Dunham was living in Indonesia during Barack Obama’s years at Columbia University.
    Occidental College and Columbia University have transfer programs for Law Students and Engineering Students.
    The name of the girl that Obama was chasing that led him to Columbia has never been revealed.
    On the name change from “Barry” to “Barack:”
    “When Barry became Barack”
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/03/22/when-barry-became-barack.html

  431. avatar
    john mirse August 28, 2011 at 5:38 pm #

    G August 28, 2011 at 4:23 pm (Quote) #

    Where is your evidence that he went to court for that? Sounds like you are just making up more nonsense.

    Colleges have privacy rules, plain and simple. They have policies that prevent the release of various private records of their students. Obama doesn’t have anything to do with that.
    ***********

    .From World Net Daily, June 9, 2009:

    “College officials then contacted Obama’s lawyers, who argued to the court that the election was over and that future concerns should be addressed to Congress.

    The motion stated that the records, which could reveal on what name Obama attended classes at Occidental and whether he attended on scholarship money intended for foreign students, “are of no relevance to this moot litigation.”

    The motion also claimed the petitioners failed to serve the subpoena properly.

    Get your “Where’s the birth certificate?” bumper sticker here.

    “The subpoena directed to Occidental College should therefore be quashed. Alternatively, this court should issue an order directing that the deposition of the custodian of records of Occidental College not take place,” the firm working on Obama’s behalf stated.

    “The central issue in this lawsuit … is whether any Respondent had a legal duty to demand proof of natural born citizenship from Democratic Party’s nominee,” the motion said. “None of the documents sought by petitioners could possibly assist in answering this question.”

    A judge granted a motion to quash the subpoena.

    “Obama’s attorneys bent over backward to block us,” Kreep told WND. “Obama doesn’t want anyone to see those records. He’s trying to hide them.”

    Read more: Obama: Where have all his records gone? http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=100613#ixzz1WMSwLlhp

  432. avatar
    Expelliarmus August 28, 2011 at 5:50 pm #

    john mirse: So it looks like Barry Obama did not use college loans at Occidental, because he had a full academic scholarship.

    A “full academic” scholarship does not necessarily cover all costs, it may just pay for tuition but not room & board and incidentals. There are many students who have academic scholarships combined with loans.

    john mirse: Obama gave up a full academic scholarship at prestigious Occidental in California to go all the way across the country to attend Columbia in New York.

    Occidental is a good college, but it probably is not considered “prestigious” and certainly would not have been considered “prestigious” back in 1980. Its rankings improved considerably in the first decade of the 21st century as college admissions became far more competitive.

    Columbia is Ivy League. Also, currently Columbia has very generous need-based aid policies, though I don’t know what the policies were in 1980. But very often need-based awards at Ivy League universities are more generous to students than the academic scholarships available to them at private colleges. But the more significant issue is simply that the academic offerings at Columbia are stronger (both now and then), and that the degree from Colulmbia is significantly more prestigious.

    john mirse: Is it hard for transfer students to attend Columbia?

    Columbia regularly accepts transfer students (obviously). In 1980, when Obama applied, Columbia had essentially reached a low point in terms of admission standards, because it was then the only Ivy League college that was still male-only, and it was recovering from severe financial problems and the impact of campus protests in the 1970’s. Basically, Columbia was in pretty bad shape at the time and it was probably fairly easy for transfer students to come in, at least as compared to now. If he had good grades his first year at Occidental & a strong recommendation from a faculty member, then admissions would have been pretty likely. Columbia began accepting women in 1983, which I believe is the year after Obama graduated; at that time, the number of applicants increased significantly (from 3700 to 5800). See http://www.columbia.edu/cu/news/record/coeducation.htm

  433. avatar
    roadburner August 28, 2011 at 6:04 pm #

    john mirse: From World Net Daily, June 9, 2009: >

    john, he asked for evidence, not a link to one of the most factually inaccurate sites on the web.

    just relying on WND is shooting yourself in the foot.

    with a howitzer.

  434. avatar
    Keith August 28, 2011 at 6:36 pm #

    john mirse: You could be right. Obama could also easily prove that he received a need-based scholarship as an American citizen and not as a foreign citizen by simply releasing his Occidental records. What is he hiding?

    He isn’t hiding anything and he hasn’t been to court to prevent any records, whether Hawai’ian birth certificates or Occidental student records, from being released.

    He did not get a foreign student loan because he was not a foreign student. Period.

    Suggesting that he could get a foreign student load easier than he could get an American student load is as stupid as suggesting that his mother would fly to Kenya in her third trimester because the hospitals were better over there.

  435. avatar
    Keith August 28, 2011 at 6:39 pm #

    john mirse: Obama goes to court to prevent Occidental from releasing his record.

    Repeating that lie over and over again will not make it true. Obama has never gone to court to prevent Occidental from releasing his records.

    Obama has never gone to court to prevent anyone from releasing any personal records. Not anywhere, not anytime.

  436. avatar
    Keith August 28, 2011 at 6:42 pm #

    Joey: In his 1995 autobiography, “Dreams From My Father,” Obama recounted how he was accepted into “several respectable” colleges but chose Occidental “mainly because I’d met a girl from Brentwood while she was vacationing in Hawaii.”

    So one of my maybes was correct!

    Makes him a pretty darn typical College freshman doesn’t it.

  437. avatar
    Keith August 28, 2011 at 6:44 pm #

    Joey: In his 1995 autobiography, “Dreams From My Father,” Obama recounted how he was accepted into “several respectable” colleges but chose Occidental “mainly because I’d met a girl from Brentwood while she was vacationing in Hawaii.”

    So one of my maybes was correct!

    Makes him a pretty darn typical College freshman doesn’t it.

    john mirse:
    Joey wrote: August 28, 2011 at 4:24 pm(Quote) #

    Barry Obama attended Occidental on a full academic scholarship. He went there because he had met a girl that he liked who was from the Brentwood Section of Los Angeles when she was vacationing in Hawaii.
    ********
    So it looks like Barry Obama did not use college loans at Occidental, because he had a full academic scholarship.

    Amazing.Obama gave up a full academic scholarship at prestigious Occidental in California to go all the way across the country to attend Columbia in New York.

    Maybe it was at Columbia that Obama firstused college loans to pay his expenses.

    Does anyone know if Obama’s mother was working in New York at the time, and that could have been the reason why Obama transferred to Columbia?

    Is it hard for transfer students to attend Columbia?I think some colleges make it difficult for transfer students to apply for admission.

    Was he known as “Barry” at Occidental?If he was, does anyone know when he began using“Barack” instead of “Barry”?

    Are there any pictures of this girl from Brentwood in Los Angeles who Joey says Obama met in Hawaii?

    When did you stop beating your wife?

  438. avatar
    Rickey August 28, 2011 at 6:47 pm #

    G:
    Where is your evidence that he went to court for that?Sounds like you are just making up more nonsense.

    Colleges have privacy rules, plain and simple.They have policies that prevent the release of various private records of their students.Obama doesn’t have anything to do with that.

    I fail to see any relevance to any of your insincere concern trolling on this silly topic.

    You have NO basis for any of your weird speculative smears, other than you suffer from a massive obsessive dose of ODS and you waste too much of your life desperately wishing you could find any scrap of smear material to justify your personal emotional biases.

    Frankly, I find that to be the sign of a very petty and troubled person.

    The attorney for Obama, Biden and the California Electors filed a Motion to Quash in Keyes v Bowen after Kreep served a subpoena upon Occidental for Obama’s records. Among other things, Kreep failed to follow the rules for serving the subpoena, the subpoena was overly broad and vague, and the records had no relevance to the case.

    Of course, it was a routine motion and the Court predictably quashed the subpoena.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/17382708/Keyes-v-Bowen-Order-Granting-Obama-Motion-to-Quash-Mar-23-2009

  439. avatar
    Keith August 28, 2011 at 6:54 pm #

    john mirse: “College officials then contacted Obama’s lawyers, who argued to the court that the election was over and that future concerns should be addressed to Congress.

    The motion stated that the records, which could reveal on what name Obama attended classes at Occidental and whether he attended on scholarship money intended for foreign students, “are of no relevance to this moot litigation.”

    Obama didn’t go to court over this because there was never a court case to go to. His lawyers filed a motion to quash a subpoena because it had no relevance to anything. A subpoena is not a court case.

    Such motions are so mundanely trivial that it was probably prepared by a legal intern, maybe even a paralegal office gofer. A simple matter like this certainly wouldn’t have cost him anything beyond the retainer..

  440. avatar
    charo August 28, 2011 at 7:22 pm #

    G: Colleges have privacy rules, plain and simple. They have policies that prevent the release of various private records of their students.

    Somehow, though, they get released (Rick Perry recently, George Bush, Al Gore.) Kerry released records that included his grades so there was no intrusion. Interesting comments from http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2000/3/21/harvard-gore-deny-leaking-grades-pthe/

    Turque said he does not feel that Gore’s right to privacy has been violated by the publication of his grades.

    “If you’re running for president, the rules are much different,” Turque said. “I think people have a right to know.”

    Marannis agreed.

    “There is a distinction between running for president and being a regular person,” said Marannis, who has written a biography of President Clinton and said he will probably turn his eight-part Post series on Gore into a book.

    *****

    And they haven’t limited their comments to “scary black men.” How about that…

  441. avatar
    Expelliarmus August 28, 2011 at 7:50 pm #

    Keith: Such motions are so mundanely trivial that it was probably prepared by a legal intern, maybe even a paralegal office gofer. A simple matter like this certainly wouldn’t have cost him anything beyond the retainer..

    Actually, the California law firm in that case said it was working pro bono.

    The motion to quash the subpena was based on the fact that (a) the plaintiffs failed to comply with California law concerning the service of such subpenas, and (b) the materials subject to the subpena was not in any way relevant to the lawsuit in which they were issued, which was a suit brought against the California Secretary of State based on a claimed failure to vet Obama’s eligiblity. The suit itself was dismissed as moot & barred due to delay in filing, because it was not brought until after the election. Obviously Obama’s college records have no bearing on his eligibility.

    The legal violation referenced as (a) above is that whenever a party subpenas personal records from a third party, they are required to first give the party whose records are sought notice, and to delay the production date on the subpena a specified period of time to allow for time to object. The plaintiff in the lawsuit in question disregarded that requirement.

    Obama’s college transcripts would not have shown his financial aid status in any case; that could only be determined by financial aid records that are unlikely to have been preserved over a period of many years. Nor would they show citizenship status, which is not in any way relevant to the reporting of grades. They would show the student’s name, the names of the courses undertaken, and the grades given.

    Obama’s grades had to be reasonably good, or else he would not have been admitted as a transfer student to Columbia. They didn’t have to be perfect, but D’s would not qualify for transfer credit and we know that Obama graduated on time, so its fair to assume that he probably had A’s & B’s. Columbia might have overlooked a C in a subject unrelated to Obama’s major … but they would have wanted to see strong grades overall.

    Similarly, Obama’s grades from Columbia had to be reasonably good in order to qualify for admission to Harvard. Not perfect, but reasonably good. A’s & B’s, not C’s or D’s.

    George W. Bush and Al Gore had famous fathers who could pull strings to get their sons admitted into Harvard or Yale, and their records show that they obviously took their status for granted when they were undergraduates, and spent more time partying than studying. (Behavior that unfortunately is fairly typical for immature youngsters whose parents are footing the bill for their education; students who are attending school on scholarship are usually more conscientious about their grades, because they know they will lose their scholarship money if their GPA falls below a specified level.)

    Obama had no such pull. If he did have an academic scholarship at Occidental, then he would have needed to maintain the required minimum GPA, usually at least 3.0 (B) or above. The college profs who do remember him and have been interviewed uniformly report him to be an excellent student.

  442. avatar
    Stanislaw August 28, 2011 at 8:09 pm #

    charo:

    And they haven’t limited their comments to “scary black men.” How about that…

    That’s probably because neither Turque nor Marannis are birthers. After reading the article, they both appear to be sane, rational individuals firmly grounded in reality.

  443. avatar
    misha August 28, 2011 at 8:27 pm #

    john mirse: anyone who goes around spreading this Beck 1990 rape and murder story as if it were true even though information on the internet verifies that the story is a hoax, satire, joke, has got to be one mentally sick person.

    First, we’re giving Beck a taste of his own medicine.

    Second, this is sick: Beck, along with American evangelicals, egg on Settlers into violent confrontations with Arabs, in the hope of sparking Armageddon. They tell Settlers that the bible justifies stealing from Arabs. Beck and his ilk encourage Israeli right wingers to continue their self-destructive path to Armageddon, which will really happen if they continue this course. I refuse to be a player in their sick theatre.

    Beck is an anti-Semite. How can he be an anti-Semite, when he loves Israel so much? He hates Arabs – that’s an anti-Semite, too.

    Sarah Palin’s church preaches that Auschwitz was divine retribution because we refuse to accept the Christian lord. A minister in Palin’s church actually said that to me: “Auschwitz was divine retribution because you people have refused to accept God’s only son.” A woman with him told me Jewish people “deserve to suffer.”

    Mormons go through lists of deceased Jews, and “baptize” them. That is beyond arrogance. It’s basic contempt for us in general.

    When I lived in Taiwan, the island is crawling with Mormon missionaries. They’re easy to spot. White shirt, black pants and neckties, riding bicycles in 103° heat. Mormon missionaries told me “the old covenant ended forever” in 70 CE. They called my wife an
    idolater, and trashed the Dalai Lama.

    So Beck and his ilk can go Cheney themselves. Especially Beck, who got away with a rape and murder in 1990.

  444. avatar
    charo August 28, 2011 at 8:32 pm #

    Stanislaw: That’s probably because neither Turque nor Marannis are birthers. After reading the article, they both appear to be sane, rational individuals firmly grounded in reality.

    So it depends on who asks the same question then?

  445. avatar
    Majority Will August 28, 2011 at 8:45 pm #

    john mirse: Get your “Where’s the birth certificate?” bumper sticker here . . . “Obama’s attorneys bent over backward to block us,” Kreep told WND. “Obama doesn’t want anyone to see those records. He’s trying to hide them.”

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!

    Nice citation from the cesspool headquarters of half-truths and lies written to con birther idiots and gullible fools.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!

    Thanks for the laugh. Carry on.

    P.S. Did you buy your bumper sticker like a good birther? Joseph Farah has house payments too.

  446. avatar
    john mirse August 28, 2011 at 8:49 pm #

    Keith wrote: When did you stop beating your wife?
    ********
    Keith, you must be one sad, sick person. It is one thing to insult me, but when you stoop so low as to bring my wife into our Obama discussions simply to win an argument, that is beyond sick.

    I have nothing more to do with you , because you have crossed the line by insulting me and my wife with your “When did you stop beating your wife?”

    Don’t you realize that you hurt my wife with your ugly statement, and you didn’t have to?

  447. avatar
    Majority Will August 28, 2011 at 8:53 pm #

    john mirse:
    Keith wrote: When did you stop beating your wife?
    ********Keith, you must be one sad, sickperson.It is one thing to insult me, but when you stoop so low as to bring my wifeinto our Obama discussions simply to win an argument,that is beyond sick.

    I have nothing moreto do with you , because you have crossed the line by insultingme and my wife with your “When did you stop beating your wife?”

    Don’t you realize that you hurt my wife with your ugly statement, and you didn’t have to?

    You don’t get out much, do you?

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question)

  448. avatar
    Stanislaw August 28, 2011 at 8:53 pm #

    charo: So it depends on who asks the same question then?

    In a sense, yes. If Gore’s grades had never been released, I strongly doubt that either Turque or Marannis would have filed a lawsuit to gain access to them. Compare this to brithers who have, in fact, tried to use the court system for that same purpose. Not only that, I don’t recall either of those men demanding to see Al Gore’s long-form birth certificate at any point during the ’00 general election.

    People who think and behave in a sane, rational manner are taken more seriously by others compared to those don’t behave in a sane, rational manner. It’s the entire reason why the Republican party has distanced itself from the birther movement.

  449. avatar
    Majority Will August 28, 2011 at 9:00 pm #

    Stanislaw: In a sense, yes. If Gore’s grades had never been released, I strongly doubt that either Turque or Marannis would have filed a lawsuit to gain access to them. Compare this to brithers who have, in fact, tried to use the court system for that same purpose. Not only that, I don’t recall either of those men demanding to see Al Gore’s long-form birth certificate at any point during the ’00 general election.

    People who think and behave in a sane, rational manner are taken more seriously by others compared to those don’t behave in a sane, rational manner. It’s the entire reason why the Republican party has distanced itself from the birther movement.

    “People who think and behave in a sane, rational manner are taken more seriously . . . ”

    It’s just like deciding whether or not charo is playing Devil’s advocate and challenging a serious discrepancy in ethical intent and ulterior motives or just really bored once again and concern trolling for personal amusement.

  450. avatar
    G August 28, 2011 at 9:43 pm #

    John,

    You have already been given very adequate responses on this by Roadburner @ 6:04pm, Rickey @ 6:47pm, Keith at 6:54pm and Expelliaramus @ 7:50pm.

    In summary, if a cr@p propaganda site like WND is your source, no wonder your head has been filled with so much gullible garbage. Nothing credible about those hacks or how they tell stories. Find a REAL source, next time.

    As others pointed out, the dismissal was not at all the “bent backwards” claim that WND embellishes and merely a basic dismissal of irrelevant info in a crazy birther case. Nothing to see here. Move along.

    john mirse: G August 28, 2011 at 4:23 pm (Quote) #Where is your evidence that he went to court for that? Sounds like you are just making up more nonsense.Colleges have privacy rules, plain and simple. They have policies that prevent the release of various private records of their students. Obama doesn’t have anything to do with that.***********.From World Net Daily, June 9, 2009: “College officials then contacted Obama’s lawyers, who argued to the court that the election was over and that future concerns should be addressed to Congress.The motion stated that the records, which could reveal on what name Obama attended classes at Occidental and whether he attended on scholarship money intended for foreign students, “are of no relevance to this moot litigation.”The motion also claimed the petitioners failed to serve the subpoena properly.Get your “Where’s the birth certificate?” bumper sticker here.“The subpoena directed to Occidental College should therefore be quashed. Alternatively, this court should issue an order directing that the deposition of the custodian of records of Occidental College not take place,” the firm working on Obama’s behalf stated.“The central issue in this lawsuit … is whether any Respondent had a legal duty to demand proof of natural born citizenship from Democratic Party’s nominee,” the motion said. “None of the documents sought by petitioners could possibly assist in answering this question.”A judge granted a motion to quash the subpoena.“Obama’s attorneys bent over backward to block us,” Kreep told WND. “Obama doesn’t want anyone to see those records. He’s trying to hide them.”Read more: Obama: Where have all his records gone? http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=100613#ixzz1WMSwLlhp

  451. avatar
    G August 28, 2011 at 10:03 pm #

    Did you even read the article you cited? I’m not sure what your point is… that sometimes reporters find a way to get access to material that wasn’t officially released and then report on those leaks? BFD.

    So you cite the reporter and someone writing a book saying that they don’t see a problem with releasing leaked info. *shock* That is what reporters do. What did you think they were going to say.

    I mean really, what is your point? Do you even have one here? Amazing how you leap to report support by the reporting people who of course are going to justify their actions and completely gloss over the WHOLE LEGAL POINT:

    The White House press office said Gore played no role in the transcripts’ release and had no prior knowledge of it.
    David Marannis, the presidential historian who wrote the story for the Post on Sunday, agreed that Gore was not his source.
    “I can’t say where they came from, but they didn’t come directly from Gore,” Marannis said.
    Marannis also said he had not gotten the transcripts directly from Harvard or any of the other schools Gore attended.

    Gore played NO role. Neither did his school. At the end of the article they even restate the law preventing release of such private info to the public.

    That’s the whole point. Get it? Has nothing to do with black or white, so stop concern trolling and trying to drag that irrelevant garbage into it. *sheesh*

    Charo, you know I enjoy your posts, but sometimes I have no idea what is going on in your head with the stuff you post or what the point is. Sometimes it comes across that you are just feeling like being petty and sneering for the sake of it…

    charo: Somehow, though, they get released (Rick Perry recently, George Bush, Al Gore.) Kerry released records that included his grades so there was no intrusion. Interesting comments from http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2000/3/21/harvard-gore-deny-leaking-grades-pthe/Turque said he does not feel that Gore’s right to privacy has been violated by the publication of his grades.“If you’re running for president, the rules are much different,” Turque said. “I think people have a right to know.”Marannis agreed.“There is a distinction between running for president and being a regular person,” said Marannis, who has written a biography of President Clinton and said he will probably turn his eight-part Post series on Gore into a book.*****And they haven’t limited their comments to “scary black men.” How about that…

  452. avatar
    G August 28, 2011 at 10:03 pm #

    Well said.

    Majority Will: It’s just like deciding whether or not charo is playing Devil’s advocate and challenging a serious discrepancy in ethical intent and ulterior motives or just really bored once again and concern trolling for personal amusement.

  453. avatar
    charo August 28, 2011 at 10:23 pm #

    Stanislaw: People who think and behave in a sane, rational manner are taken more seriously by others compared to those don’t behave in a sane, rational manner.

    I suppose it is sane to spend hours arguing with people that you believe to be insane, fringe, incapable of being rational. The reporters felt it was acceptable to surreptitiously get the transcripts because they thought the people have a right to know. Since you spoke speculatively about whether the reporters would have filed a lawsuit if they could not have obtained the transcripts, I will speak speculatively and say that even if it turned out that Gore was an absolutely horrible student, they didn’t think he was stupid. The point was it was their belief that privacy should be limited when one is running for president. Race should be irrelevant if you hold that position concerning privacy.

  454. avatar
    charo August 28, 2011 at 10:31 pm #

    G:
    Did you even read the article you cited?I’m not sure what your point is… that sometimes reporters find a way to get access to material that wasn’t officially released and then report on those leaks?BFD.

    So you cite the reporter and someone writing a book saying that they don’t see a problem with releasing leaked info.*shock*That is what reporters do.What did you think they were going to say.

    I mean really, what is your point?Do you even have one here?Amazing how you leap to report support by the reporting people who of course are going to justify their actions and completely gloss over the WHOLE LEGAL POINT:

    Gore played NO role.Neither did his school.At the end of the article they even restate the law preventing release of such private info to the public.

    That’s the whole point.Get it? Has nothing to do with black or white, so stop concern trolling and trying to drag that irrelevant garbage into it.*sheesh*

    Charo, you know I enjoy your posts, but sometimes I have no idea what is going on in your head with the stuff you post or what the point is.Sometimes it comes across that you are just feeling like being petty and sneering for the sake of it…

    Gee, G, this isn’t the first time that you erupt into emotionalism over blog comments that “don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world.” Even though you are angry, I saw this video last week and thought you may get a good laugh out if it (you and other technically minded folk). It is a Weird Al (I almost typed Al Gore) video that is completely sanctioned by the rapper he is parodying (Chamillionaire, the song “Ridin”)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9qYF9DZPdw

  455. avatar
    G August 28, 2011 at 10:38 pm #

    Love that video! Very familiar with it. I’ve always been a fan of Weird Al’s work and his White & Nerdy is one of my favorites of his recent work. Thanks for thinking of me.

    charo: I saw this video last week and thought you may get a good laugh out if it (you and other technically minded folk). It is a Weird Al (I almost typed Al Gore) video that is completely sanctioned by the rapper he is parodying (Chamillionaire, the song “Ridin”)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9qYF9DZPdw

  456. avatar
    charo August 28, 2011 at 10:44 pm #

    I should have figured you were familiar with it. I think Weird Al is one of the most talented people ever. Not every parody strikes a chord with me, but I appreciate his attention to detail both musically and otherwise.

    Okay, school commences tomorrow…

  457. avatar
    G August 28, 2011 at 10:47 pm #

    There is a valid argument that it is a waste of time to argue with crazy. I wouldn’t go as far as to call it insane. At worst, it is only pointless…because the point is to inject some rationality to counter the crazy. True, often it is nothing but an excercise in talking to a brick wall.

    I think you are still missing the point by making a big deal about a bunch of reporters self-justifying their actions in obtaining otherwise non-public info. I mean, *duh*, what other position would you expect them to take? Seriously.

    You seem to be trying to create a straw-man argument here. The whole point is that there is NO laws requiring release of such info. In fact, just the opposite. It is protected by privacy laws. Reporters are always going to try to dig for info. If they come across something, they will want the “scoop” and release it. Happens all the time. BUT it is NOT required.

    They can ask all they want, but no candidate has to obligate them with an answer or provide that info.

    If stuff gets leaked by other sources and ends up in the news, then so be it. You act like that is either unusual or some inexplicable justifcation for forcing candidates to do so.

    I still really don’t see what your whole point is at all. You should be capable enough of distinguishing between the right to ask a question and not being entitled to get an answer.

    charo: I suppose it is sane to spend hours arguing with people that you believe to be insane, fringe, incapable of being rational. The reporters felt it was acceptable to surreptitiously get the transcripts because they thought the people have a right to know. Since you spoke speculatively about whether the reporters would have filed a lawsuit if they could not have obtained the transcripts, I will speak speculatively and say that even if it turned out that Gore was an absolutely horrible student, they didn’t think he was stupid. The point was it was their belief that privacy should be limited when one is running for president. Race should be irrelevant if you hold that position concerning privacy.

  458. avatar
    El Diablo Negro August 28, 2011 at 10:53 pm #

    G: charo: I saw this video last week and thought you may get a good laugh out if it

    Funny video its almost like me, but I am of the Steven Urkel mold.

    Did I do that?

  459. avatar
    charo August 28, 2011 at 10:54 pm #

    G: Reporters are always going to try to dig for info. If they come across something, they will want the “scoop” and release it. Happens all the time. BUT it is NOT required.

    I don’t know where you are seeing “required” in what I said. If I implied it, I take it back. IMO, I haven’t seen the digging on Obama by the press, but I’m sure that is not the prevailing view here. (just watched the video again, have to stop)

  460. avatar
    charo August 28, 2011 at 11:00 pm #

    El Diablo Negro: Funny video its almost like me, but I am of the Steven Urkel mold.

    Did I do that?

    How about combining Steven Urkel with Steve-O? Did he do that??

    I’d better leave before I start getting tomatoes thrown at me.

  461. avatar
    El Diablo Negro August 28, 2011 at 11:04 pm #

    charo: I don’t know where you are seeing “required” in what I said. If I implied it, I take it back. IMO, I haven’t seen the digging on Obama by the press, but I’m sure that is not the prevailing view here. (just watched the video again, have to stop)

    There was digging pre 2008. And all they could come up with was Reverend Wright. When Birtherism peaked, I remember watching CNN and FOX reporters looking into the birth certificate. Anderson Cooper even went to Hawaii to dig.

  462. avatar
    G August 28, 2011 at 11:04 pm #

    I totally agree. Like all artists, not every pardody/song attempt is going to knock it out of the park, but his multi-decade track record is extremely amazing and his parody ability in music is pretty darn near unparalleled. Not only does he do a masterful job with the songs themselves…but when he works them into videos, he really takes his multi-leveled parody’s to entire new heights. I’ve been listening to his stuff ever since “Another one Rides the Bus” and own many of his albums, tapes, CDs and video complilation releases. His polka mix compilations are always a hoot too.

    charo: I should have figured you were familiar with it. I think Weird Al is one of the most talented people ever. Not every parody strikes a chord with me, but I appreciate his attention to detail both musically and otherwise.

  463. avatar
    Rickey August 28, 2011 at 11:08 pm #

    charo: Somehow, though, they get released (Rick Perry recently, George Bush, Al Gore.)Kerry released records that included his grades so there was no intrusion.Interesting comments from http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2000/3/21/harvard-gore-deny-leaking-grades-pthe/

    Turque said he does not feel that Gore’s right to privacy has been violated by the publication of his grades.

    “If you’re running for president, the rules are much different,” Turque said. “I think people have a right to know.”

    Marannis agreed.

    “There is a distinction between running for president and being a regular person,” said Marannis, who has written a biography of President Clinton and said he will probably turn his eight-part Post series on Gore into a book.

    *****

    And they haven’t limited their comments to “scary black men.” How about that…

    And who gave Marannis and Turque the authority to decide when someone’s privacy has been violated? They aren’t exactly disinterested parties, since both of them made money from the release of Gore’s records.

  464. avatar
    G August 28, 2011 at 11:39 pm #

    LOL! Do you have the mega huge glasses too? 😉

    El Diablo Negro: Funny video its almost like me, but I am of the Steven Urkel mold.Did I do that?

  465. avatar
    G August 28, 2011 at 11:40 pm #

    LMAO. *cringe*. Yeah…that’s a disturbing combo… 😉

    charo: How about combining Steven Urkel with Steve-O? Did he do that??I’d better leave before I start getting tomatoes thrown at me.

  466. avatar
    G August 29, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    I agree with El Diablo Negro. Reporters do dig and they do that kind of stuff primarily during campaigns. They found what they could and reported on that. Just because x bit of info you want to know wasn’t found or reported on, simply means nothing special at all. It simply means that they didn’t find a way to “access” such info, not that they didn’t try.

    As the old saying goes, “absense of evidence is not evidence of absence.” Further, if you think that reporters (& opponents) weren’t digging everywhere they could to report on Obama’s background back then, then you have a very selective memory and are only seeing things through the filter of your own bias. Background info, such as the links that Joey provided @ 4:24pm & 5:34pm are just small examples of the kinds of digging & reporting that turned up. Google is your friend and will turn up a lot more.

    Just because some reporters were able to get some source leak and access data they otherwise woudn’t be able to obtain officially on Gore doesn’t mean that they can always get access to this data on everyone. The whole point is that colleges don’t release this private info and have laws against it. Further, candidates don’t “owe” anyone this info. If leaks happen and this kind of info is obtained on some particular person by some reporter, then so be it. But there are no expectations or requirements for such and it doesn’t mean anything if it doesn’t turn up.

    Further, the election ended in 2008. We are no longer dealing with a candidate, but a President. Such minor esoterica on his college transcripts might have been a curiosity talking point during a campaign, but they had nearly no relevance on his ability to serve as President and most certainly, no relevance to eligibility. Now that he’s POTUS, all that really matters is judging him on his ability to do his job. Anyone complaining about wishing they knew more about his youth is simply looking for petty excuses to complain.

    Finally, it is one thing for someone who has a positive opinion of some public figure to be simply curious and want to know more about their background and life.

    But if you do NOT like someone…then it is either a little obsessively weird and disturbing in an unhealthy way, or completely disingenuous “concern trolling” and a sign of a shrill form of backbiter gossipmongering; which is also an unhealthy and petty hobby to have.

    charo: I don’t know where you are seeing “required” in what I said. If I implied it, I take it back. IMO, I haven’t seen the digging on Obama by the press, but I’m sure that is not the prevailing view here. (just watched the video again, have to stop)

    El Diablo Negro: There was digging pre 2008. And all they could come up with was Reverend Wright. When Birtherism peaked, I remember watching CNN and FOX reporters looking into the birth certificate. Anderson Cooper even went to Hawaii to dig.

  467. avatar
    dunstvangeet August 29, 2011 at 12:03 am #

    I always preferred Amish Paradise (which, by the way, didn’t necessairly have the support of Coolio to produce)…

  468. avatar
    G August 29, 2011 at 12:06 am #

    Another one of my all-time favorites!!

    dunstvangeet: I always preferred Amish Paradise (which, by the way, didn’t necessairly have the support of Coolio to produce)…

  469. avatar
    Northland10 August 29, 2011 at 6:41 am #

    G: Just because some reporters were able to get some source leak and access data they otherwise woudn’t be able to obtain officially on Gore doesn’t mean that they can always get access to this data on everyone.

    With the increased problems of identity theft, many companies and organizations have severely tightened their privacy rules (along with increased rules from various governments). With much stricter rules and training of staff members on what is appropriate to release, I suspect reporters may find their leak sources less available to them. It is important to remember, these privacy rules employees sign, often do not end when an employee leaves the organization (usually in the contract language).

    I would suspect that, in some past cases, candidates and officials have intentionally leaked their own information. This has the advantage of allowing them to release certain information but avoid responsibility of having released it. When, and if employed, it is strictly a political calculation. In the information that the birthers want, I see little political benefit in leaking it since they will not believe anything that does not tell them what they want. If he released or leaked college records that show he he had US scholarships and loans and/or rather good grades, they would simply say it was fake. He has nothing to gain. The rest of the country is more interested in what he is doing now.

  470. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 29, 2011 at 7:03 am #

    Well, they do that for anybody who is not Mormon, not just Jews.

    misha: Mormons go through lists of deceased Jews, and “baptize” them. That is beyond arrogance. It’s basic contempt for us in general.

  471. avatar
    Stanislaw August 29, 2011 at 7:49 am #

    charoThe reporters felt it was acceptable to surreptitiously get the transcripts because they thought the people have a right to know.

    Exactly. They didn’t demand that Gore himself “release” all of his records for public scrutiny. They didn’t demand that Gore himself show the entire world his birth certificate, and they didn’t demand that Gore continue prove his eligibility over and over again. Whether you meant to do so or not, you’ve just highlighted a key difference between the way birthers think and behave and the way the rest of us think and behave,

    The point was it was their belief that privacy should be limited when one is running for president. Race should be irrelevant if you hold that position concerning privacy.

    I actually agree with this statement, but the birthers do not. Go back and look at the last election. If you want look at all of the past elections…how many times were George Bush, Bill Clinton, or Bush Sr. called on to release their “real” birth certificates? Looking specifically at 2008, how many times were John McCain, Sarah Palin, or even Joe Biden called on to release theirs? What about Hillary Clinton or John Edwards? How many times have Tim Pawlenty, Mitt Romney, or Ron Paul been called on to release their birth certificates? How many birthers wanted to “verify” their birthplaces?

    The fact that the birther movement is focused solely on President Obama should tell you that birtherism is about racism, first and foremost. The birther movement didn’t exist until a Black man with a funny-sounding name decided to run for President.

  472. avatar
    Stanislaw August 29, 2011 at 7:51 am #

    I hate it when my formatting gets screwed up like that. Guess I better get some more coffee so I can finally wake up.

  473. avatar
    obsolete August 29, 2011 at 11:45 am #

    Stanislaw: How many times have Tim Pawlenty, Mitt Romney, or Ron Paul been called on to release their birth certificates? How many birthers wanted to “verify” their birthplaces?

    Exactly.

    And we see birthers here like John Mirse who can’t even comprehend why we ask him why he is not interested in any other candidates birth or SS info.

  474. avatar
    Wile E August 29, 2011 at 1:44 pm #

    dunstvangeet:
    I always preferred Amish Paradise …

    Amazing how much he looks like Stephen Colbert in the opening close-up (00:13-00:17)…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo74Dn7W_pA

    Tonight is movie night with the wife. We’re gonna watch UHF.

  475. avatar
    Rickey August 29, 2011 at 2:22 pm #

    charo: The reporters felt it was acceptable to surreptitiously get the transcripts because they thought the people have a right to know.

    The point is that the people don’t have a right to know, regardless of what the reporters think. The people have the right to ask, but that’s it. If they aren’t satisfied with the answer, vote for someone else.

    I note that John McCain never released his records from Annapolis, not did he release his Navy service records, nor did he release his birth certificate. He released only selected portions of his medical records and reporters were given all of three hours to review them. I would think that a candidate’s medical condition is more relevant that his or her college records, but where was the outcry for McCain to release all of his records? He chose not to release them which was his right.