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The occasional open thread: death to robocallers edition.

Place comments here not related to the current articles. This thread will close in two weeks.

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163 Responses to The occasional open thread: death to robocallers edition.

  1. avatar
    y_p_w January 18, 2012 at 12:48 am #

    I used to get this specific Robocall of “Hi, this is Tom from Home Security. How are you today?” The first few times I heard it, it sounded so natural that I answered, and there was a delay with a fairly natural sounding response.

    Now I’m freaked out after I got a live person calling from “Home Security”. A live person can be more persistent when there are commissions or bonuses involved.

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 18, 2012 at 1:22 am #

    If you haven’t already noticed, the English Wikipedia is offline for 24 hours to raise awareness of a bill before Congress, the Stop Online Piracy Act. SOPA, according to many Internet law experts, is badly written and ripe for abuse. It threatens small web sites like mine (someone complaining of copyright infringement could shut my whole site down and I would have to find the resources to fight it in federal court to get back up) and it would allow blocking of entire foreign web sites until they came to the US to defend a lawsuit. I agree that it’s a bad law and contacted my Senators a few days ago in opposition.

    See:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative/Learn_more
    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/01/how-pipa-and-sopa-violate-white-house-principles-supporting-free-speech
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_IP_Act

    For one of the top 5 web sites in the world to shut down, it must be a big deal to the editors of the Wikipedia.

  3. avatar
    Keith January 18, 2012 at 2:32 am #

    So are you going black ‘after 2 seeks’ to protest SOPA?

  4. avatar
    chancery January 18, 2012 at 3:33 am #

    >It threatens small web sites like mine (someone complaining of
    >copyright infringement could shut my whole site down and
    >I would have to find the resources to fight it in federal court to get back up)

    Have you considered taking advantage of the Digital Millennium Act safe harbor by designating an agent for notification of claims? You monitor the comments here so carefully that you probably don’t need it nearly as much as most sites that allow comments, but it strikes me as a reasonably-priced extra layer of protection.

    chancery (not an intellectual property lawyer)

  5. avatar
    RuhRoh January 18, 2012 at 7:23 am #

    Second or third-tier Birfer Citizen Wells is alleging that Obama declined to publicly finance his 2008 campaign because he is not a NBC. http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/obama-ga-ballot-challenge-natural-born-citizen-status-judge-michael-malihi-why-did-obama-refuse-matching-funds-in-2008-part-1/#comments

    So far, Wells hasn’t done anything other than repost some mainstream media articles from 2007, when Obama suggested he would accept public financing, and 2008, when he declined to do so. He hasn’t yet made any argument regarding how the campaign finance decision proves Obama is not a NBC.

    I have no idea where the Birfers are heading with this latest claim, but then again, I don’t expect Birfers to make much sense.

  6. avatar
    El Diablo Negro January 18, 2012 at 8:05 am #

    SOPA, I know a few malcontents and businessmen/women that would take full advantage of SOPA loopholes. Its all about capitalism, keeping your opponent down legally (morals be damned). My youngest sister would gladly pay someone to post infringing links on her competitors website. If you do not think these people exist…wait till this bill passes (if it passes)

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 18, 2012 at 9:36 am #

    Thanks. Complete the following analogy:

    “S” is to “W” as “0” is to

    a) “Q”
    b) “9”
    c) “T”
    d) “4”

    Keith: So are you going black after 2 seeks’ to protest SOPA?

  8. avatar
    The Magic M January 18, 2012 at 9:50 am #

    RuhRoh: I have no idea where the Birfers are heading with this latest claim

    Obviously just throwing more crap on the pile, only to keep the “look at all these facts, that can’t be a coincidence” meme alive.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Thanks. Complete the following analogy

    I think the analogies from the Mensa test were easier. ;)

    It becomes trickier if you ask: “S” is to “W” as “6” is to … and make both “3” and “10” a valid answer. (Hint: the “3” solution requires a clock and another tool.)

  9. avatar
    The Magic M January 18, 2012 at 9:51 am #

    Sorry, make that “9”, not “3”. I’m too tired already.

  10. avatar
    y_p_w January 18, 2012 at 10:11 am #

    Oh. Since this is an open thread what was up with the outage yesterday?

  11. avatar
    El Diablo Negro January 18, 2012 at 10:35 am #

    y_p_w: Oh. Since this is an open thread what was up with the outage yesterday?

    Dr. C. said the server’s CPU overloaded, had to reboot it.

  12. avatar
    Horace January 18, 2012 at 10:36 am #

    Shhh. Don’t talk about it. (A week of silence from the Obot community tells me that this put a hurtin’ on your argument, Doc.)

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2012/01/11/the-objectively-gray-propaganda-of-masked-rascals/

  13. avatar
    John Woodman January 18, 2012 at 10:54 am #

    Obviously, “S” is to “W” as “0‘ is to “9.”

    This is a lot easier than the questions in those Netflix commercials.

  14. avatar
    Sef January 18, 2012 at 11:00 am #

    For people with Android phones getting unwanted calls there is the free app “Call Control” which blocks calls on a Community Black List. If you pay for the Pro version you can add your own phone #s.

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 18, 2012 at 11:48 am #

    The Supreme Court vote was 6-2 in Wong Kim Ark (one justice who definitely would have voted with the majority (Field) hadn’t been appointed when the arguments were made and didn’t vote). If you take Gray out, then the vote would be 5-2.

    The second point is that IF you believe Donofrio (and you shouldn’t), no one knew of Arthur’s father’s naturalization status. If that is so, then Justice Gray didn’t know it either, and so it could not have influenced his vote.

    Donofrio has made fools of you all.

    It’s not gotten any ink here, because it OLD NEWS, at least a year old story.

    Horace: Shhh. Don’t talk about it. (A week of silence from the Obot community tells me that this put a hurtin’ on your argument, Doc.)

  16. avatar
    Horace January 18, 2012 at 12:14 pm #

    sorry, Doc. Your objections were addressed in the article. Maybe you should take the time to read and understand it before providing commentary.
    _______________________

    When Charles Evans Hughes was running for President, this very issue was brought to the attention of the public by former Secretary of State and Ambassador to Italy, Breckenridge Long, in an article written for the Chicago Legal News in 1916:

    “Whether Mr. Hughes is, or is not, a natural born’ citizen within the meaning of the Constitution, so as to make him eligible or ineligible, to assume the office of President, presents an interesting inquiry.

    He was born in this country and is beyond question native born.’ But is there not a distinction between native born’ and natural born? At the time he was born his father and mother were subjects of England. His father had not then been naturalized. The day after Mr.Hughes was born his father had a right, as an English subject, to go to the British consul, at New York, and to present his wife and infant and to claim any assistance he might need from the consul as the representative of the English government.

    If war had broken out between this government and England this government would have had a right to interne the father, the mother and the son as subjects of an enemy power.”

    Read the article in full. You will notice that it does not address the issue of Chester Arthur’s father having been an alien. Had the nation been aware of that fact, such knowledge would have determined the very issue in question thereby rendering it moot.

  17. avatar
    Horace January 18, 2012 at 12:29 pm #

    Naturalization Act of 1790: And the children of such person so naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty one years at the time of such naturalization, shall also be considered as citizens of the United States.

    Naturalization Act of 1795: And be it further enacted, that the children of persons duly naturalized, dwelling within the United States, and being under the age of twenty-one years at the time of such naturalization, and the children of citizens of the United States born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, shall be considered as citizens of the United States.

    Please note that the Act doesn’t state anything about where the child was born.

    The Fourteenth Amendment was not intended to have any effect on those born within the United States whose parents were subject to a foreign power. In support of this contention permit me to point to President Chester Arthur’s State of the Union Address of Dec. 1894;

    “An uniform rule of naturalization” such as the Constitution contemplates should, among other things, clearly define the status of persons born within the United States subject to a foreign power (section 1992) and of minor children of fathers who have declared their intention to become citizens but have failed to perfect their naturalization…A just and uniform law in this respect would strengthen the hands of the Government in protecting its citizens abroad and would pave the way for the conclusion of treaties of naturalization with foreign countries.”

    We all know that President Arthur wasn’t referring to the children of ambassadors and ministers. The status of their children was never in question. It should also be noticed that Arthur was talking about the power of Congress to naturalize.

    Who was among those who were born within the United States subject to a foreign power, or at the very least, whose father had declared an intent to become a citizen, but had failed to naturalize before their birth? –Why Chester Arthur himself. When he was born, his father had not naturalized. –Though he kept that hidden from the public.

    Now here’s where it gets really interesting. –Arthur made that address just four weeks after Elk v Wilkins (Nov. 1894). In that case the court stated;

    “Indians born within the territorial limits of the United States, members of, and owing immediate allegiance to, one of the Indiana tribes, (an alien though dependent power,) although in a geographical sense born in the United States, are no more born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,’ within the meaning of the first section of the fourteenth amendment, than the children of subjects of any foreign government born within the domain of that government, or the children born within the United States, of ambassadors or other public ministers of foreign nations.”

    As the author of the article explains; “The paragraph concerns three classes of persons who are – in a geographical sense – born in the United States, but who are not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. Those three classes are indians, children of ambassadors, and children born in the U.S. of foreign subjects, the parents having been born in the foreign nation themselves. The statement does not make sense if read to mean that the children of foreign subjects referred to in the quote are actually born on the foreign soil of the country to which their parents owe allegiance.

    The comparison is solely focused upon persons born, in a geographical sense, in the U.S., but subject to an alien power. This statement must be read in conjunction with Justice Gray’s deference to page 73 of The Slaughter-House Cases, as well as the Court’s correlative characterization of the synonymous nature of the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act of 1866.”

    Prior to the convoluted holding in WKA, the children of foreigners were never considered by any federal court to be citizens of the United States. The became citizens when their parents naturalized. However, any question as to their citizenship status would have been extremely rare. The U.S. born children of foreigners would have been naturalized along with their parents sometime within the first 21 years of their life, or they would have left along with their parents.

    It doesn’t make any sense to make the children of aliens, citizens of the U.S. just because they were born here. During war aliens can be asked to leave or face internment. The same cannot be said of U.S. citizens. –Do we separate the families?

    An alien who commits a crime can be expelled from the country. The same cannot be said of their citizen children.

    Justice Gray would have had an extremely good reason to avoid precedent and burden the U.S. with the common law of England for the first time. His position depended on it. He could have quite easily said that Wong Kim Ark, by the provisions of the Burlingame Treaty was not subject to any foreign jurisdiction, and was therefore, a citizen of the United States IAW the Fourteenth Amendment. Instead, Justice Gray strategically dissected other holdings and statutory provisions in order to arrive at a holding that reversed them.

    Prior to Wong Kim Ark, only the children of citizens became citizens at birth on U.S. soil. (As noted by previous jurists, they were the natives, or natural-born citizens.) All others had to be naturalized.

  18. avatar
    Horace January 18, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

    We don’t know what Justice Gray did or did not know. All we can do is make a judgment based on his change of opinion. Had someone found out the facts about Arthur’s father, there is a pretty good chance that someone would have found a way to ask the Chief Justice about it behind closed doors. Or are you under the impression that Justices of the Supreme Court don’t talk to people -off the record? Had Gray found out about Arthur’s father, he would have had pretty good motive to have an apparent change of heart. Some would say that he might even avoid the law. The article points out that it is exactly what Justice Gray did.

  19. avatar
    Scientist January 18, 2012 at 1:12 pm #

    Horace: Prior to the convoluted holding in WKA, the children of foreigners were never considered by any federal court to be citizens of the United States. The became citizens when their parents naturalized. However, any question as to their citizenship status would have been extremely rare. The U.S. born children of foreigners would have been naturalized along with their parents sometime within the first 21 years of their life, or they would have left along with their parents.

    Please cite a case of anyone born in the US being ever naturalized.

  20. avatar
    J. Potter January 18, 2012 at 1:15 pm #

    RuhRoh: Second or third-tier Birfer Citizen Wells is alleging that Obama declined to publicly finance his 2008 campaign because he is not a NBC. http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/obama-ga-ballot-challenge-natural-born-citizen-status-judge-michael-malihi-why-did-obama-refuse-matching-funds-in-2008-part-1/#commentsSo far, Wells hasn’t done anything other than repost some mainstream media articles from 2007, when Obama suggested he would accept public financing, and 2008, when he declined to do so. He hasn’t yet made any argument regarding how the campaign finance decision proves Obama is not a NBC. I have no idea where the Birfers are heading with this latest claim, but then again, I don’t expect Birfers to make much sense.

    He refused matching funds to avoid having fundraising handicapped by the FEC limits. This was well covered at the time. And considered controversial …. but now almost certain to be routine. The attempt limit money in the presidntial races was a failure. Such a thorough failure, i haven’t heard a peep about it since 2008. It’s just a given that neither candidate will be interested.

    http://www.fec.gov/press/bkgnd/fund.shtml

  21. avatar
    J. Potter January 18, 2012 at 1:16 pm #

    Oh, if I wasn’t being explicit enough …. birthers are just being stupid again. Using disingenuous thought to achieve genuine stupidity.

  22. avatar
    J. Potter January 18, 2012 at 1:17 pm #

    Horace: A week of silence from the Obot community

    That phrase gave you away as a liar. Never a week of silence around here. We prattle on all the time!

    just like this, see?

  23. avatar
    gorefan January 18, 2012 at 1:20 pm #

    Horace: Prior to the convoluted holding in WKA, the children of foreigners were never considered by any federal court to be citizens of the United States.

    How do you explain the original district court ruling in Wong Kim Ark. Judge Morrow says the only question before the court is whether someone born in the United States is a citizen even if the parents are not citizens. He goes on to explain why it is an important question.

    “The question is an important one, not alone from an abstract point of view, but because of the consequences a decision unfavorable to the petitioner would involve; for, if the contention of counsel for the government be correct, it will inevitably result that thousands of persons of both sexes who have been heretofore considered citizens of the United States, and have always been treated as such, will be, to all intents and purposes, denationalized and remanded to a state of alienage. Including among these are thousands of voters who are exercising the right of suffrage as American citizens, and whose right as such is not, and never jas been, questioned, because birth within the country seems to have been recognized generally as conclusive upon the question of citizenship.”

    He also cites other federal cases that decide the same issue.

    Horace: Had Gray found out about Arthur’s father, he would have had pretty good motive to have an apparent change of heart. Some would say that he might even avoid the law.

    What would that motive be? When Wong Kim Ark came around, President Arthur had been dead for 11 years.

  24. avatar
    JD Reed January 18, 2012 at 1:33 pm #

    I second the motion, Scientist, re your challenge to Horace. If people born in the US hsd been naturalized. there would be official records showing just that. Since no one has come forward with such evidence, I assume there is none. In your court, Horace.

  25. avatar
    y_p_w January 18, 2012 at 1:35 pm #

    Well – with a previous off-topic discussion on passports, birth certificate, and terrirories, I was just thinking aloud of nationality vs citizenship.

    It’s my understanding that there’s are two specific cases where being born in a US territory doesn’t automatically grant jus soli citizenship but does grant jus soli nationality – in American Samoa and Swains Island (population 36). Someone born in American Samoa who does claim US citizenship by birth probably has to document it, although I’m not clear how. Normally the State Dept takes birth certificates as proof of US citizenship, but they’ve got a unique case in American Samoa.

    I don’t have my passport handy, but my passport card only uses the term “nationality”, and I believe that’s the term used on my passport. I understand that such “US nationals” can have US passports, but they’re somehow different. The State Dept makes mention of that in the following link. Apparently they’ve been getting some requests for a certificate of non-citizen US nationality. Apparently it’s in law, but they don’t get enough requests that they think it would be a wise expenditure of resources to do it. They argue that a passport with such veribiage should be sufficient to serve as a certification of non-citizen nationality, and someone who would like such a certificate should just apply for a passport.

    http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_781.html

  26. avatar
    y_p_w January 18, 2012 at 1:41 pm #

    Scientist: Please cite a case of anyone born in the US being ever naturalized.

    Well – I did make mention of it, but it’s a special case. Birth in American Samoa and Swains Island grant US nationality, but not necessarily US citizenship. It’s my understanding that those with US nationality but not US citizenship can be naturalized as US citizenship. Also – someone born to a US citizen in American Samoa is considered a US citizen.

    It’s a very specific case though.

  27. avatar
    Scientist January 18, 2012 at 1:46 pm #

    y_p_w: Well – I did make mention of it, but it’s a special case. Birth in American Samoa and Swains Island grant US nationality, but not necessarily US citizenship. It’s my understanding that those with US nationality but not US citizenship can be naturalized as US citizenship. Also – someone born to a US citizen in American Samoa is considered a US citizen.
    It’s a very specific case though.

    Yes, there are also a few cases of children born in the US to diplomats who naturalized, but I am looking for someone born in the US proper to non-diplomat parents who were not US citizens. There are many millions who fall in that category in the period 1788-2012 (or if Horace prefers, 1788-1896).

  28. avatar
    JoZeppy January 18, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

    Horace: Same Birther B.S. we’ve seen for years.

    I notice you never actually use “the author’s” name….Are you even to embarrased to admit you’re quoting someone how has spent more time as a professional poker player than lawyer? Ever wonder why Donofrio never submits this B.S. for publication to a law journal, like real legal academics do?

    Same old B.S. Don’t you think perhaps the reason why the 1790s naturalization acts never mention place of birther may be because people born on US soil don’t need to be NATURALIZED??? I know it’s a rather silly point, but don’t you think the last place on earth you would look for the definition of NBC would be in a statute governing NATURALIZATION? Seems obvious to everyone but birthers.

    Another point is, you (by citation to Donofrios utter waste of time) also cite to court cases, and other materials regarding native Americans. Strike two. Native Americans were not subject to US jurisdiction. They were considered separate nations within US borders up until the early 20th century. Local police could not go on reservations and make arrests. They were not subject to US courts. The tribes entered into treaties with the US government. Immigrants, tourists, and illegal aliens are not treated the same way native Americans were. Thus, anything related to Native Americans is completely off point, and does nothing to support your arguments.

    Finally, there has only been one Supreme Court decision that ever found that those born on US soil were anything but Natural Born Citizens. That was Scott v. [Sandford]. Yes, the
    Dred Scott decision, that was considered a “self inflicted black eye on the Court” when it was first published. Universally considered the worst Supreme Court decision ever published. The only case that resulted in a Justice resigning in disgust. And here’s the kicker, Justice Curtis’ dissent (you know, the guy who resigned) is considered to have been correct on the law…and guess what he said, while pointing to early precident….born on the soil = born citizen (so much for your claim that no one ever considered those born on soil to be citizens without regard to the citizenship of the parents). There is a reason why Donofrio’s cranking out multiple versions of the same completely debunked arguments. It’s the same garbage he dragged out 3 years ago that was garbage then, and now is just rotten garbage.

  29. avatar
    RuhRoh January 18, 2012 at 2:14 pm #

    J. Potter: He refused matching funds to avoid having fundraising handicapped by the FEC limits. This was well covered at the time. And considered controversial …. but now almost certain to be routine. The attempt limit money in the presidntial races was a failure. Such a thorough failure, i haven’t heard a peep about it since 2008. It’s just a given that neither candidate will be interested.http://www.fec.gov/press/bkgnd/fund.shtml

    Right. Obama’s personal fundraising had hit staggering levels and he therefore declined public financing. The only reason it became controversial was that he had proposed, early in his campaign, to accept public financing if his Republican challenger would as well and then changed his mind. I think anyone who does not count himself amongst the Birfers understands this.

    I’m not seeing how the Birfers are alleging a correlation between rejecting public financing and lack of NBC status. I realize there is no rational argument to support their allegation (there never is one with them) but I can’t even find the irrational argument.

  30. avatar
    G January 18, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

    We need to start referring to these clowns as The Cult of Donofrio.

    That is probably as apt a classification as it gets in this case – just a bunch of ignorant followers whose entire grasp of law is whatever Donofrio spoon-feeds them.

    JoZeppy: I notice you never actually use “the author’s” name….Are you even to embarrased to admit you’re quoting someone how has spent more time as a professional poker player than lawyer? Ever wonder why Donofrio never submits this B.S. for publication to a law journal, like real legal academics do?Same old B.S. Don’t you think perhaps the reason why the 1790s naturalization acts never mention place of birther may be because people born on US soil don’t need to be NATURALIZED??? I know it’s a rather silly point, but don’t you think the last place on earth you would look for the definition of NBC would be in a statute governing NATURALIZATION? Seems obvious to everyone but birthers. Another point is, you (by citation to Donofrios utter waste of time) also cite to court cases, and other materials regarding native Americans. Strike two. Native Americans were not subject to US jurisdiction. They were considered separate nations within US borders up until the early 20th century. Local police could not go on reservations and make arrests. They were not subject to US courts. The tribes entered into treaties with the US government. Immigrants, tourists, and illegal aliens are not treated the same way native Americans were. Thus, anything related to Native Americans is completely off point, and does nothing to support your arguments.Finally, there has only been one Supreme Court decision that ever found that those born on US soil were anything but Natural Born Citizens. That was Scott v. Sanders. Yes, theDred Scott decision, that was considered a “self inflicted black eye on the Court” when it was first published. Universally considered the worst Supreme Court decision ever published. The only case that resulted in a Justice resigning in disgust. And here’s the kicker, Justice Curtis’ dissent (you know, the guy who resigned) is considered to have been correct on the law…and guess what he said, while pointing to early precident….born on the soil = born citizen (so much for your claim that no one ever considered those born on soil to be citizens without regard to the citizenship of the parents). There is a reason why Donofrio’s cranking out multiple versions of the same completely debunked arguments. It’s the same garbage he dragged out 3 years ago that was garbage then, and now is just rotten garbage.

  31. avatar
    J. Potter January 18, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    RuhRoh: but I can’t even find the irrational argument.

    Presumably becuase it would require submitting paperwork, and as all us good birthers know, Obama has never submitted paperwork for anything, anywhere, at anytime. Abundant public records be damned! That’s the generic form this wannbe meme will take. Can’t wait for the specifics!

  32. avatar
    Arthur January 18, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

    How about “Donofritos” for short?

    G: We need to start referring to these clowns as The Cult of Donofrio.

  33. avatar
    Scientist January 18, 2012 at 2:37 pm #

    G: We need to start referring to these clowns as The Cult of Donofrio.

    I was on some blog a while ago where some clown assured me that Donofrio was the greatest lawyer who ever lived.

  34. avatar
    G January 18, 2012 at 2:45 pm #

    Nah, I like Fritos.

    ;)

    Also, they are certainly cult worshippers, as Scientist too just noted. Therefore, I think leaving off the Cult title does a disservice.

    Arthur: How about “Donofritos” for short?

    Scientist: I was on some blog a while ago where some clown assured me that Donofrio was the greatest lawyer who ever lived.

  35. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 18, 2012 at 4:41 pm #

    I regret the current site stability problems. We’re in the middle of a distributed denial of service (DDOS) attack, not against me, but against site(s) that share the same hosting company. I’d link to the DDOS article in the Wikipedia but, ya know.

  36. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 18, 2012 at 4:55 pm #

    In Dred Scott, the court said that former slaves were not citizens of any kind. No court to my knowledge has ever even hinted that someone who was born a citizen in the United States was not a natural born citizen.

    JoZeppy: Finally, there has only been one Supreme Court decision that ever found that those born on US soil were anything but Natural Born Citizens.

  37. avatar
    Keith January 18, 2012 at 7:12 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Thanks. Complete the following analogy:

    “S” is to “W”as “0‘ is to

    a) “Q”
    b) “9‘
    c) “T”
    d) “4‘

    Um… lemme think… “L”?

  38. avatar
    G January 18, 2012 at 8:03 pm #

    d) 4

    Dr. Conspiracy: Thanks. Complete the following analogy:“S” is to “W” as “0‘ is to a) “Q”b) “9‘c) “T”d) “4‘

  39. avatar
    Majority Will January 18, 2012 at 8:25 pm #

    When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

  40. avatar
    Suranis January 18, 2012 at 9:33 pm #

    Horace: Naturalization Act of 1790: And the children of such person so naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty one years at the time of such naturalization, shall also be considered as citizens of the United States.

    Naturalization Act of 1795: And be it further enacted, that the children of persons duly naturalized, dwelling within the United States, and being under the age of twenty-one years at the time of such naturalization, and the children of citizens of the United States born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, shall be considered as citizens of the United States.

    Please note that the Act doesn’t state anything about where the child was born.

    Er actually they do. From the 1790 act

    And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea or out of the limits of the United States shall be considered as natural born citizens.

    And the act of 1795 was enacted TO CORRECT AN ERROR IN THE 1790 ACT

    And I’m providing actual proof

    http://nativeborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/23/us-congress-mr-dowdy-reports-on-the-meaning-of-natural-born/#more-5595

    Mr Dowdy discusses the meaning of Natural Born and explains how the 1790 Naturalization act came to inadvertently use the term natural born when referring to children born abroad to US citizen parents.

    Mr. James Madison, who had been a member of the Constitutional Convention and had participated in the drafting of the terms of eligibility for the President, was a member of the Committee of the House, together with Samuel Dexter of Massachusetts and Thomas A. Carnes of Georgia when the matter of the uniform naturalization act was considered in 1795. Here the false inference which such language might suggest with regard to the President was noted, and the Committee sponsored a new naturalization bill which deleted the term “natural-born” from the Act of 1795. (1 Stat 414) The same error was never repeated in any subsequent naturalization act.

    The Act of 1795 provides:

    “The children Of citizens BORN OUTSIDE of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, shall be considered as citizens of the United States.”

    Capitalisation mine

    I’m sorry that you and Denofrio have to lie to prove a point, but you do. Also, rather than burning his fathers papers, Chester Arthur actually donated his father naturalization papers to the library of congress. I suppose he made a photocopy and burned that, right?

    And here’s a picture

    http://naturalborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/william-arthur-naturalization.pdf

    So, yeah, I suppose putting it into a library for every researcher in the future to look at is concealing the fact that his father wasn’t naturalized.

  41. avatar
    Lucas D. Smith January 19, 2012 at 2:21 am #

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    Think you know all there is to know about Mitt Romney? I think its perfectly possible that no one does. Get a load of this:

    The Romney Book

    http://www.wasobamaborninkenya.com/blog/barrack-obama-eligibility/the-romney-book/

    Please exercise your free speech in the comments section below the blog report. Speak your mind, give us your thoughts, both objective and subjective. Share your ideas, hunches, inklings or your expertise. Please provide recommendation and corrections if you spot errors in fact within the blog report. Lastly, remember that posting a comment is much like casting a vote, so please do so!

    Thank you!

    Lucas D. Smith
    319-804-0440

  42. avatar
    Keith January 19, 2012 at 2:42 am #

    Suranis: And here’s a picture

    http://naturalborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/william-arthur-naturalization.pdf

    So, yeah, I suppose putting it into a library for every researcher in the future to look at is concealing the fact that his father wasn’t naturalized.

    I think I detect layers in that ‘picture’. What are those dark blob thingies? And the font is all wrong.

  43. avatar
    Bob J January 19, 2012 at 5:48 pm #

    Dr. Taitz has subpoenaed Sheriff Arpaio.

    Why?

  44. avatar
    NBC January 19, 2012 at 5:52 pm #

    Bob J: Why?

    To reveal the findings of his Posse… Of course, the report may not be done and his testimony may not even be admissible. But what the heck

  45. avatar
    J. Potter January 19, 2012 at 5:58 pm #

    Bob J: Dr. Taitz has subpoenaed Sheriff Arpaio. Why?

    She wants him to cough up his super sekrit report of course!

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Farrar-v-Obama-Subpoena-sheriff-Joe-Arpaio.pdf

    It’s cute how birthers expect other birthers to deliver on their birther promises ;)

    She has also subpoena’d a local TV news director re: a video posted on YouTube about Obama’s days in Indonesia. I haven’t seen it, so I don’t know the angle, or care much.

    She’s still flogging that blank subpoena PDF … at least she is checking the little boxes sensibly …. but still can’t figure out how to put the x’s in the boxes. Geeez.

  46. avatar
    NBC January 19, 2012 at 6:03 pm #

    J. Potter: She has also subpoena’d a local TV news director re: a video posted on YouTube about Obama’s days in Indonesia. I haven’t seen it, so I don’t know the angle, or care much.

    Can we say double hearsay…

  47. avatar
    NBC January 19, 2012 at 6:10 pm #

    What I do find fascinating is how she is subpoena’ing people in Georgia now. Hedging her bets now that she has realized a GA subpoena has no relevance outside the state?

  48. avatar
    JoZeppy January 19, 2012 at 6:23 pm #

    NBC: What I do find fascinating is how she is subpoena’ing people in Georgia now. Hedging her bets now that she has realized a GA subpoena has no relevance outside the state?

    I’m starting to wonder if Orly really has no idea what is in store for her come next week. She’s doing all this frantic work as if it really was a “trial,” rather than an administrative hearing very well might end with her looking like a bigger fool than usual. I have to wonder how much rope the ALJ will give Orly before getting tired of her antics.

  49. avatar
    y_p_w January 19, 2012 at 6:40 pm #

    JoZeppy: I’m starting to wonder if Orly really has no idea what is in store for her come next week. She’s doing all this frantic work as if it really was a “trial,” rather than an administrative hearing very well might end with her looking like a bigger fool than usual. I have to wonder how much rope the ALJ will give Orly before getting tired of her antics.

    Kind of reminds me of the line from Jurassic Park (the movie):

    Genetic power is the most awesome force the planet has ever seen, and yet you wield it like a kid who’s found his father’s gun.

    That sort of encapsulates what’s happened now that she’s got the subpoena blanks in hand (or in Adobe Acrobat). It’s almost like she’s found her father’s gun and she’s lining up all these targets that she’s planning on trying to hit willy nilly.

    Or I guess it could be like that 8 year old kid (ironically the son of an emergency room doctor) at some sort of outdoor gun show whose dad let him fire a rental micro-Uzi. He couldn’t control it, it kicked back, and he hit himself in the head.

    http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/26385792/detail.html

    Filing all these subpoenas could very well come back to bite her. How many attorneys would even think of trying to issue a state administrative court subpoena to a federal government office?

  50. avatar
    Bob J January 19, 2012 at 6:43 pm #

    What amazes me about Dr. Taitz is how she asks her followers for help. Sending out pleas for people who speak Indonesian inn order to translate the Youtube video. Asking for someone to contact the casino owner who donated to Newt, tin order to help her campaign. Thinking that an Arizona county sheriff will have anything credible to offer a judge in Georgia.Always putting the cost of things out there, so she can pull in donations. Throwing the whole pot of spaghetti at the wall, hoping a noodle will stick.

    It used to be entertaining, but now it is just sad. I think she is mentally ill. Not just crazy, like an embarrassing family member at Thanksgiving, but certifiable.

    This “trial” seems to be pushing her over the edge. But her madness has always been what keeps her in the dim spotlight of Birtherstan. Maybe she is just getting ready for a meltdown that will explain her inability to get on the primary ballot for the GOP CA senate nomination.

  51. avatar
    y_p_w January 19, 2012 at 6:50 pm #

    J. Potter: She wants him to cough up his super sekrit report of course!http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Farrar-v-Obama-Subpoena-sheriff-Joe-Arpaio.pdfIt’s cute how birthers expect other birthers to deliver on their birther promises She has also subpoena’d a local TV news director re: a video posted on YouTube about Obama’s days in Indonesia. I haven’t seen it, so I don’t know the angle, or care much.She’s still flogging that blank subpoena PDF … at least she is checking the little boxes sensibly …. but still can’t figure out how to put the x’s in the boxes. Geeez.

    Can it be quashed on a technical ground that the X isn’t in the box?

    Basically what she’s doing is trying to get everything into a format that can be displayed as a PDF without rescanning the printed output. The check box is some sort of text character, and it can’t be replaced with character that represents an X or a check inside of a box.

    I remember filling out a civil action form once (one of those fillable PDFs) and helped someone submit it to a civil court clerk. Clerks aren’t supposed to answer legal questions (and the probably wouldn’t know the right answers to begin with), but they might help with format and basic questions if you’re nice to the clerk. This particular clerk indicated that one could just fill in a particular part by hand, and it was just as legal as if it were filled in a PDF reader.

  52. avatar
    G January 19, 2012 at 7:23 pm #

    Yeah, at some point, the GA courts need to come down on her and stop her little play-games of using their form to issue fantasy subpoena’s willy-nilly…

    She’s an out of control nut and abusing the heck out of those forms…

    It has to be viewed as fraud or illegal, I would imagine.

    y_p_w: Kind of reminds me of the line from Jurassic Park (the movie):Genetic power is the most awesome force the planet has ever seen, and yet you wield it like a kid who’s found his father’s gun.That sort of encapsulates what’s happened now that she’s got the subpoena blanks in hand (or in Adobe Acrobat). It’s almost like she’s found her father’s gun and she’s lining up all these targets that she’s planning on trying to hit willy nilly.Or I guess it could be like that 8 year old kid (ironically the son of an emergency room doctor) at some sort of outdoor gun show whose dad let him fire a rental micro-Uzi. He couldn’t control it, it kicked back, and he hit himself in the head.http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/26385792/detail.htmlFiling all these subpoenas could very well come back to bite her. How many attorneys would even think of trying to issue a state administrative court subpoena to a federal government office?

  53. avatar
    G January 19, 2012 at 7:24 pm #

    AGREED! Although I would argue that she’s come across completely certifiably bonkers for at least the past 2 years…

    Bob J: It used to be entertaining, but now it is just sad. I think she is mentally ill. Not just crazy, like an embarrassing family member at Thanksgiving, but certifiable.

  54. avatar
    G January 19, 2012 at 7:26 pm #

    She seems to have been stuck in a slow-burn meltdown for quite a long time already…

    It has been an endless downward spiral with her from the beginning. She is waaaay past the point of no return…

    Bob J: Maybe she is just getting ready for a meltdown that will explain her inability to get on the primary ballot for the GOP CA senate nomination.

  55. avatar
    JPotter January 19, 2012 at 8:31 pm #

    y_p_w: The check box is some sort of text character, and it can’t be replaced with character that represents an X or a check inside of a box.

    If you know what you’re doing, it’s not a problem. This just demonstrates a lack of resources and technical ability.

    It’s also very telling that she posts these online, without any confirmation of service. Heck, I could gin up the appearance of a legal crusade without ever leaving my chair. Recall how in last hearing at HI, it was alleged by HDOH that the subpoena, which orly had posted a week (more?) in advance on her site and spread far and wide digitally, had never been served! Orly’s response? not a peep. From a woman who rants at the drop of a hat!

    Her fans she a new post, and it’s “yup, yup, yup, she’s a-fightin’ fer US!!!”

    Lolz. *sigh* Lolz. *sigh* Lolz. *sigh*

  56. avatar
    JPotter January 19, 2012 at 9:26 pm #

    Yet another Orly subpoena!

    See, not hard to put the checks in the boxes.

    Orly has been served.

  57. avatar
    y_p_w January 19, 2012 at 9:48 pm #

    JPotter:
    Yet another Orly subpoena!

    See, not hard to put the checks in the boxes.

    Orly has been served.

    Someone Farked a subpoena? Brilliant!

  58. avatar
    y_p_w January 19, 2012 at 10:00 pm #

    JPotter:
    It’s also very telling that she posts these online, without any confirmation of service. Heck, I could gin up the appearance of a legal crusade without ever leaving my chair. Recall how in last hearing at HI, it was alleged by HDOH that the subpoena, which orly had posted a week (more?) in advance on her site and spread far and wide digitally, had never been served! Orly’s response? not a peep. From a woman who rants at the drop of a hat!

    I don’t think it’s that difficult to get proof of service. The administrative court rules are really, really lenient on what constitutes serving a subpoena. All they require is a certified or registered mail receipt, although it can also be done by personal service or through a process server (including a sheriff’s deputy although I’ve hear they hate doing it). None of the parties involved are allowed to personally serve a subpoena, so it’s not as if Orly could knock on doors (now that’s a scary thought) trying to serve subpoenas. I don’t know if her budget can handle $50 a pop process servers.

    One subpoena received by the Hawaii Dept of Health was mailed with a certified mail sticker and the requisite postage. Certified mail doesn’t come with a return receipt per se, but it’s easy enough to pull up the tracking data if you’ve got the receipt.

    In California there has to be at least three attempts to serve papers before one is allowed to mail a copy. It’s a little bit more complicated though.

  59. avatar
    JPotter January 19, 2012 at 10:07 pm #

    y_p_w: Someone Farked a subpoena? Brilliant!

    Sure, I did. I didn’t put much thought into it, will happily take suggestions if anyone has any.

    Turns out the checkboxes were vector objects.To be fair, I have no idea what the file originally looked like, I assume it was a form of some sort, as it has numerous masks and clipping paths. This is a modification of Orly’s upload, so there’s no telling where it’s been!

  60. avatar
    Wile E. January 19, 2012 at 10:22 pm #

    J. Potter:

    She’s still flogging that blank subpoena PDF … at least she is checking the little boxes sensibly …. but still can’t figure out how to put the x’s in the boxes. Geeez.

    Hey…and she even specified a year on this one!

  61. avatar
    JPotter January 19, 2012 at 10:25 pm #

    Wile E.: Hey…and she even specified a year on this one!

    Getting her education in basic procedure from social media? :P

  62. avatar
    y_p_w January 19, 2012 at 10:54 pm #

    JPotter: Sure, I did. I didn’t put much thought into it, will happily take suggestions if anyone has any.

    Turns out the checkboxes were vector objects.To be fair, I have no idea what the file originally looked like, I assume it was a form of some sort, as it has numerous masks and clipping paths. This is a modification of Orly’s upload, so there’s no telling where it’s been!

    I would think it probably started off as a Word (or other word processing program) document, had an image of the signature and stamp added, and the final result was from a PDF generator (I think there’s an Adobe Acrobat plug-in for this that acts like it’s a print job). I use Mac OSX, and there’s a built in PDF generator in the print function. The advantage would be a compact file size where the text is perfectly sharp (except maybe for the added images). It would also be possible to edit it in some PDF tool. If it were a pure image scan, it’s basically just an image file in a PDF container, and the size can balloon.

  63. avatar
    Keith January 19, 2012 at 11:03 pm #

    So your hosting company got a DDoS attack the other day? Who else are they hosting?

    Anonymous Responds To Megaupload Takedown; Claims Credit For DOJ, RIAA, MPAA, Universal Music Outages

  64. avatar
    JPotter January 19, 2012 at 11:06 pm #

    y_p_w: I would think it probably started off as a Word

    This is from the header of Orly’s file:

    <>

    So Orly is altering it in Word, saved Arpaio’s at 7:35 am this morning. Not sure what format the court had made it available in. No wonder she can’t get her checks in the boxes!

    It’s all text and vector objects, except for the seal and signature, and so is my version.

  65. avatar
    JPotter January 19, 2012 at 11:07 pm #

    Author(Orly)/Creator(þÿ M i c r o s o f t O f f i c e W o r d 2 0 0 7)/CreationDate(D:20120119073552) /ModDate(D:20120119073552) /Producer(þÿ M i c r o s o f t O f f i c e W o r d 2 0 0 7)

    Whoops! angle brackets made it disappear LOL

  66. avatar
    y_p_w January 19, 2012 at 11:10 pm #

    Keith:
    So your hosting company got a DDoS attack the other day? Who else are they hosting?

    Anonymous Responds To Megaupload Takedown; Claims Credit For DOJ, RIAA, MPAA, Universal Music Outages

    It’s easy enough to look up this information on WHOIS:

    http://www.whois.net/whois/obamaconspiracy.org

    http://www.whois.net/whois/obamaconspiracy.org

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DreamHost

    Apparently they host some controversial websites that get denial of service attacks frequently.

  67. avatar
    y_p_w January 19, 2012 at 11:15 pm #

    JPotter: This is from the header of Orly’s file:

    <>

    So Orly is altering it in Word, saved Arpaio’s at 7:35 am this morning. Not sure what format the court had made it available in. No wonder she can’t get her checks in the boxes!

    It’s all text and vector objects, except for the seal and signature, and so is my version.

    The only format I saw it in was the one that ORYR placed on Scribd, but I don’t have an account where I can download it. Maybe the original available from the administrative court website was a Word document that the user can freely edit, and the posted versions were PDFs created from Word edits.

  68. avatar
    JPotter January 19, 2012 at 11:20 pm #

    y_p_w: Maybe the original available from the administrative court website was a Word document that the user can freely edit,

    almost certainly so, as Word doesn’t read PDFs in too well, unless there is a plug-in out there…But the idea of Orly manages plug-ins is laughable. Word exports PDFs great, but only reads them as text. So I believe you are correct.

  69. avatar
    y_p_w January 20, 2012 at 12:31 am #

    JPotter: almost certainly so, as Word doesn’t read PDFs in too well, unless there is a plug-in out there…But the idea of Orly manages plug-ins is laughable. Word exports PDFs great, but only reads them as text. So I believe you are correct.

    I was thinking that there are some PDF editing tools out there, but I believe they take a lot of experience to use well.

  70. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 20, 2012 at 2:29 am #

    They host somewhere north of 1 million domains.

    Keith: So your hosting company got a DDoS attack the other day? Who else are they hosting?

  71. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 20, 2012 at 2:32 am #

    Layers ?!?!?!?!?!

    JPotter: It’s all text and vector objects, except for the seal and signature, and so is my version.

  72. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 20, 2012 at 2:42 am #

    In the case of this web site, that gives the right answer; however in general that just tells you about domain registration that MIGHT be different from the hosting company. If you want to know who hosts the site, you have to know who owns the IP address. That can be done with an nslookup on the IP address.

    y_p_w: It’s easy enough to look up this information on WHOIS

  73. avatar
    JPotter January 20, 2012 at 3:17 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Layers ?!?!?!?!?!

    Absolutely! 100s of objects, many nested in groups 4 levels deep. Makes WH PDFs look downright dull. Tons of redundancy and unnecessary clutter. Of course, I add a few :D

    Friends don’t let friends do Microsoft. Orly needs a friend.

  74. avatar
    The Magic M January 20, 2012 at 4:17 am #

    John Woodman: Obviously, “S” is to “W” as “0‘ is to “9.”

    Seriously?

    STUVW
    01234

    Thus “4” is the correct answer.

    My amended version

    “S” is to “W” as “6‘ is to a) 9 b) 10 c) A d) 1975

    has two correct solutions:

    STUVW
    6789(10)

    making “10” one, and associating S = South = 6 on the clock with W = West = 9 on the clock making “9” the other.

  75. avatar
    Wile January 20, 2012 at 8:18 am #

    Mr. Woodman must have thought the zero (0) in the original question was a capital letter O. If it had been an “O” his answer would have made perfect sense.

    In the context of the Doc’s original typo, I think the best answer would be…f10.

    The Magic M: Seriously?

    STUVW
    01234

    Thus “4‘ is the correct answer.

    My amended version

    “S” is to “W” as “6‘ is to a) 9 b) 10 c) A d) 1975

    has two correct solutions:

    STUVW
    6789(10)

    making “10‘ one, and associating S = South = 6 on the clock with W = West = 9 on the clock making “9‘ the other.

  76. avatar
    Keith January 20, 2012 at 8:41 am #

    Wile: In the context of the Doc’s original typo, I think the best answer would be…f10.

    That was my first solution, but it clearly wasn’t as ‘funny’ as ‘L’ which, while not one of the Doc’s choices, and least made another word.

  77. avatar
    Keith January 20, 2012 at 8:42 am #

    Correction, on my keyboard it would be F8.

  78. avatar
    J. Potter January 20, 2012 at 9:19 am #

    Some telemarketer revenge: Great radio interview this morning with a guy in SC who had a digital voicebox in place of his larynx. Apparently this greatly confuses human callers. Kinda sad that human half of these interactions couldn’t pass a Turing test, judging him to be a computer based on the sound of his voice, rather than his responses and timing. :(

  79. avatar
    misha January 20, 2012 at 11:06 pm #

    To Dr C and other readers:

    I have said many times that Orly’s goal is to incite a lone wolf. It’s just not her, and this is why I’m concerned:

    Newspaper Editor: Israel Should Consider Assassinating Obama

    Andrew Adler, the owner and publisher of the Atlanta Jewish Times…devoted his January 13, 2012 column to the thorny problem of the U.S. and Israel’s diverging views on the threat posed by Iran. Basically Israel has three options, he wrote: Strike Hezbollah and Hamas, strike Iran, or “order a hit” on Barack Obama.

    Read on:
    http://gawker.com/5877892/newspaper-editor-israel-should-consider-assassinating-obama

  80. avatar
    gorefan January 20, 2012 at 11:20 pm #

    Besides everything else Polland is shopping for a DC lawyer to help file a quo warranto.

    “Someone, please find me a DC attorney – a bulldog of an attorney – who is willing and able to file and pursue a Quo Warranto against Obama.”

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2012/01/birther-summit-editorial-has-orly-taitz.html#comment-form

    Also read the article Dean Haskins gives his take on the today’s denial

  81. avatar
    G January 20, 2012 at 11:53 pm #

    Good god! How reprehensible and utterly irresponsible for that jack@ss to publish something like that!

    At least the update at the end of the article confirms that he’ll be getting a visit from the Secret Service soon…

    UPDATE: Adler has told JTA that he “regrets” the column and plans to publish an apology. Oh, and the Secret Service says it will “make all appropriate, investigative follow-up in regard to this matter,” according to ABC News.

    But really, that is not enough for such irresponsible behavior from a newspaper editor of all things! He needs to resign immediately and if not, his bosses are themselves accountable for not having him immediately fired.

    There is simply NO excuse for putting such things in print and then publishing that newspaper. Entertaining notions of our allies assassinating our leaders is beyond the pale in being out of bounds – and would be an unacceptible offense even if it was published in some other country…especially one that is an ally of ours. However, EVEN WORSE – this didn’t happen in Israel. No, this happened right here in the U.S. in a Jewish newspaper in Atlanta.

    I view that as an act of sedition. It completely crosses the line. There is no excuse for an editor to publish without thinking of the consequences of what he wrote. He not only needs to immediately lose his job (and should be disqualified from ever being an editor again), but ALSO I fully support that this rises to the level of utter irresponsibility that does justify treating it with the harsh penaltis available under our law for acts of sedition and incitement.

    misha: To Dr C and other readers:I have said many times that Orly’s goal is to incite a lone wolf. It’s just not her, and this is why I’m concerned:Newspaper Editor: Israel Should Consider Assassinating Obama Andrew Adler, the owner and publisher of the Atlanta Jewish Times…devoted his January 13, 2012 column to the thorny problem of the U.S. and Israel’s diverging views on the threat posed by Iran. Basically Israel has three options, he wrote: Strike Hezbollah and Hamas, strike Iran, or “order a hit” on Barack Obama.Read on:http://gawker.com/5877892/newspaper-editor-israel-should-consider-assassinating-obama

  82. avatar
    US Citizen January 21, 2012 at 9:02 am #

    This post was made because this was an open thread.
    It has nothing to do with Robocallers.
    ****************************************

    While I maintain the position that if this site didn’t exist and even millions of people demanded more formal investigations or even suggestion of amending the Constitution as they see fit, none of this would likely affect Obama’s presidency or that of future presidents.
    I personally do believe the citizenship rules and that Obama is the legal POTUS.
    I don’t believe this will change.

    But sometimes I find it odd that Doc and others here do more investigation that birthers and often provide info they may use to further legal challenges that cost money to resolve or allow them to make money from the ignorant.

    I don’t disagree with the entertainment value or anyone’s right to say whatever they want, but I question the sheer number of hours and dollars spent here in time.

    Our issue is decided law.
    Do sites that challenge idiot lawyers instead convert to tax expenditures by courts or should this simply chalked up as entertainment for us?
    No disrespect levied at anyone here. (except some of the birther trolls.)

    I just was considering what the bigger picture of a site like this is.
    Do many of you feel you are making an actual contribution to education of voters and thus effecting meaningful voter sway?
    Or is this a self-indulgent exercise (entertainment) that we’re basically paying for via means perhaps we’re not aware of?
    Would Orly’s sanction of $20K even equalize this substantially?

    I like fiction and believe it has entertainment value.
    But I would never consider spending time arguing that fictional characters were real either.
    So many times it feels like we’re doing exactly that here.

    So does this site do more harm than good?
    More good than harm?
    Is it worth the aggregate time and money of intelligent people, or honorable to be spent chastising others when it’s often been considered that many of these people are actually mentally ill?
    There seems to be a sadistic or self-righteous slant if this IS entertainment.
    Am I wrong? Partially right? Does it matter?

  83. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2012 at 10:05 am #

    US Citizen:
    This post was made because this was an open thread.
    It has nothing to do with Robocallers.
    ****************************************

    While I maintain the position that if this site didn’t exist and even millions of people demanded more formal investigations or even suggestion of amending the Constitution as they see fit, none of this would likely affect Obama’s presidency or that of future presidents.
    I personally do believe the citizenship rules and that Obama is the legal POTUS.
    I don’t believe this will change.

    But sometimes I find it odd that Doc and others here do more investigation that birthers and often provide info they may use to further legal challenges that cost money to resolve or allow them to make money from the ignorant.

    I don’t disagree with the entertainment value or anyone’s right to say whatever they want, but I question the sheer number of hours and dollars spent here in time.

    Our issue is decided law.
    Do sites that challenge idiot lawyers instead convert to tax expenditures by courts or should this simply chalked up as entertainment for us?
    No disrespect levied at anyone here. (except some of the birther trolls.)

    I just was considering what the bigger picture of a site like this is.
    Do many of you feel you are making an actual contribution to education of voters and thus effecting meaningful voter sway?
    Or is this a self-indulgent exercise (entertainment) that we’re basically paying for via means perhaps we’re not aware of?
    Would Orly’s sanction of $20K even equalize this substantially?

    I like fiction and believe it has entertainment value.
    But I would never consider spending time arguing that fictional characters were real either.
    So many times it feels like we’re doing exactly that here.

    So does this site do more harm than good?
    More good than harm?
    Is it worth the aggregate time and money of intelligent people, or honorable to be spent chastising others when it’s often been considered that many of these people are actually mentally ill?
    There seems to be a sadistic or self-righteous slant if this IS entertainment.
    Am I wrong? Partially right? Does it matter?

    1. No, yes.
    2. No.
    3. Yes.
    4. No.
    5. No.
    6. No.
    7. It depends. Probably not if you’re only considering the impact from one site and not others including many other blogs, news and social media threads, e-mail and official political sites in the U.S. and worldwide.
    8. No.
    9. Yes.
    10. No.

  84. avatar
    Sef January 21, 2012 at 10:07 am #

    What is it about women from Moldova? There is a story that there was a Moldovan woman with the Italian cruise ship captain when it crashed. http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=moldovan+woman+cruise+ship&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

  85. avatar
    misha January 21, 2012 at 5:51 pm #

    Sef: What is it about women from Moldova?

    They’ll go to bed on the first date. This is not a joke. Trust me on this.

  86. avatar
    Arthur January 21, 2012 at 6:48 pm #

    Newt Gingrich’s adultery has always struck me as completely unsavory. Likewise, I’m at a loss to imagine how a woman could be attracted to his pudgy arrogance. However, a conservative psychiatrist named Keith Ablow feels that Gingrich’s apparent magnetism makes him an ideal candidate for President. According to an article in the Huffington Post, Ablow’s argues that,

    “1) Three women have met Mr. Gingrich and been so moved by his emotional energy and intellect that they decided they wanted to spend the rest of their lives with him.

    “2) Two of these women felt this way even though Mr. Gingrich was already married.

    “3 ) One of them felt this way even though Mr. Gingrich was already married for the second time, was not exactly her equal in the looks department and had a wife (Marianne) who wanted to make his life without her as painful as possible.

    “Conclusion: When three women want to sign on for life with a man who is now running for president, I worry more about whether we’ll be clamoring for a third Gingrich term, not whether we’ll want to let him go after one.”

    Gag me with a set of flatware!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/21/keith-ablow-fox-news-newt-gingrich-marriages_n_1220761.html

  87. avatar
    y_p_w January 21, 2012 at 6:58 pm #

    Sef:
    What is it about women from Moldova? There is a story that there was a Moldovan woman with the Italian cruise ship captain when it crashed. http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=moldovan+woman+cruise+ship&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

    I used to always confuse it with the made-up kingdom of “Moldavia” from the TV show Dynasty.

  88. avatar
    Sef January 21, 2012 at 7:00 pm #

    misha: They’ll go to bed on the first date. This is not a joke. Trust me on this.

    Sleep tight. Don’t let the bedbugs bite.

  89. avatar
    Majority Will January 21, 2012 at 8:11 pm #

    Santorum in South Carolina cites the Bible, ignores Obama birther remark

    (excerpts) Rick Santorum thumped the Bible hard in South Carolina’s religious epicenter Friday evening, telling a rowdy crowd that the United States is a Christian nation. He also ignored comments questioning President Obama’s citizenship.

    . . . “This president continually undermines the national security interests of our country, undermines the economic interests of this country. Why?” he asked rhetorically.

    “Because he wasn’t born here!” yelled one man from the back of the room. The audience laughed and applauded.

    Santorum paused briefly, then moved on with his answer. A few minutes later, as Santorum laid into Obama once again, another man yelled, “He hates America!” The crowd cheered. Santorum once again ignored the remark.

    (source: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-presidential-primary/205525-santorum-in-sc-cites-the-bible-ignores-obama-birther-remark-)

    Isn’t Iran a theocracy?

  90. avatar
    JPotter January 21, 2012 at 10:03 pm #

    Is this the religious service in question?

    Majority Will: Rick Santorum thumped the Bible hard in South Carolina’s religious epicenter Friday evening,

  91. avatar
    Majority Will January 22, 2012 at 3:32 am #

    JPotter:
    Is this the religious service in question?

    In spirit, yes. But it all started here.

  92. avatar
    G January 22, 2012 at 5:35 am #

    ;) Kudos.

    JPotter: Is this the religious service in question?

  93. avatar
    JPotter January 22, 2012 at 4:58 pm #

    Quicken Loans has been running a very Birther-y commercial … apparently 2 months old, I just saw it today for the first time. Spot on!

  94. avatar
    G January 22, 2012 at 6:18 pm #

    * chuckle *

    cute… ;)

    JPotter: Quicken Loans has been running a very Birther-y commercial … apparently 2 months old, I just saw it today for the first time. Spot on!

  95. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 22, 2012 at 9:06 pm #

    I probably won’t write a story, but Obama did ask for Betty White’s birth certificate.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CqtbPG25G0k

    Cute.

  96. avatar
    US Citizen January 23, 2012 at 1:03 am #

    “Conclusion: When three women want to sign on for life with a man who is now running for president, I worry more about whether we’ll be clamoring for a third Gingrich term, not whether we’ll want to let him go after one.”

    Gag me with a set of flatware!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/21/keith-ablow-fox-news-newt-gingrich-marriages_n_1220761.html

    I bet Charles Manson has received more offers for marriage and he’s not presidential material either.
    Seriously, most of these women probably didn’t want Gingrich for his body or charisma, they wanted to be married to a man of power, meet other important people and get lots of free dinners and perks.
    I know an ugly dentist with four ex wives.

  97. avatar
    JPotter January 23, 2012 at 1:10 am #

    US Citizen: Gag me with a set of flatware!

    “Ablow also said that Gingrich’s way of telling his wives the “incredibly painful truths” that he no longer loved them and was leaving them for other women could mean that he would be equally, brutally direct with America about whatever issues he had with the entire country.”

    And the Ailes’ Spin Cycle reaches another new low ….

  98. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 8:48 pm #

    Misah – There is a new update on this despicable story – the newspaper editor has finally resigned!

    It also mentions that the Secret Service still plans to visit him.

    Personally, I think his irresponsibility was so egregious in publishing that horrid speculation, that much more is needed to appropriately punish and remedy this atrocious situation.

    Anyways, here’s the article. A H/T to Aarrgghh for initially providing the link:

    http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20120124/ap_on_bi_ge/us_jewish_newspaper_flap_georgia

    misha: To Dr C and other readers:I have said many times that Orly’s goal is to incite a lone wolf. It’s just not her, and this is why I’m concerned:Newspaper Editor: Israel Should Consider Assassinating Obama Andrew Adler, the owner and publisher of the Atlanta Jewish Times…devoted his January 13, 2012 column to the thorny problem of the U.S. and Israel’s diverging views on the threat posed by Iran. Basically Israel has three options, he wrote: Strike Hezbollah and Hamas, strike Iran, or “order a hit” on Barack Obama.Read on:http://gawker.com/5877892/newspaper-editor-israel-should-consider-assassinating-obama

  99. avatar
    y_p_w January 24, 2012 at 9:33 pm #

    JPotter: “Ablow also said that Gingrich’s way of telling his wives the “incredibly painful truths” that he no longer loved them and was leaving them for other women could mean that he would be equally, brutally direct with America about whatever issues he had with the entire country.”And the Ailes’ Spin Cycle reaches another new low ….

    In honor of Newt, why not get him a case of this:

    http://morristsai.com/blogpics/89fc9f2ede4b138987faf4a0136fcfd5.jpg.jpeg

    Bring some home to the wives!

  100. avatar
    misha January 24, 2012 at 9:40 pm #

    y_p_w: In honor of Newt, why not get him a case of this:

    http://morristsai.com/blogpics/89fc9f2ede4b138987faf4a0136fcfd5.jpg.jpeg

    Bring some home to the wives!

    +10

  101. avatar
    aarrgghh January 24, 2012 at 11:07 pm #

    G:
    Misah – There is a new update on this despicable story – the newspaper editor has finally resigned!

    another senseless suicide by send button. if only someone close had seen the warning signs and pulled an intervention — someone like an editor or one of his advertisers.

  102. avatar
    aarrgghh January 24, 2012 at 11:16 pm #

    y_p_w: In honor of Newt, why not get him a case of this:

    http://morristsai.com/blogpics/89fc9f2ede4b138987faf4a0136fcfd5.jpg.jpeg

    Bring some home to the wives!

    and the first ladies.

  103. avatar
    misha January 24, 2012 at 11:20 pm #

    aarrgghh: if only someone close had seen the warning signs and pulled an intervention — someone like an editor or one of his advertisers.

    That schmuck owns the paper, so there wasn’t anyone to stop him.

    G: the newspaper editor has finally resigned!

    Actually, he has agreed to sell it. I don’t know who would want it. It has a circulation of about 5K weekly. It’s a rag.

  104. avatar
    misha January 24, 2012 at 11:28 pm #

    aarrgghh: and the first ladies.

    I went to your website. I don’t think he’ll go for a fourth. He’s all shagged out. He’s the Pillsbury doughboy, come to life. And that Stepford wife he drags around. Can you say ‘Botox’? Trump wears a badger on his head. She wears a helmet.

  105. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 11:30 pm #

    I always think Lego People Stepford Wife when I see her…

    misha: I went to your website. I don’t think he’ll go for a fourth. He’s all shagged out. He’s the Pillsbury doughboy, come to life. And that Stepford wife he drags around. Can you say Botox’? Trump wears a badger on his head. She wears a helmet.

  106. avatar
    G January 24, 2012 at 11:31 pm #

    Thanks for that update. Also – sorry for typo on saying Misha above…

    misha: Actually, he has agreed to sell it. I don’t know who would want it. It has a circulation of about 5K weekly. It’s a rag.

  107. avatar
    misha January 25, 2012 at 12:43 am #

    misha: I have said many times that Orly’s goal is to incite a lone wolf. It’s just not her, and this is why I’m concerned:

    It’s just not Orly, redux:

    Jewish publisher is an idiot – but his hatred is shared by many

    There is something eerily familiar in all this, of course, for anyone who was present 16 years ago at Tel Aviv’s Kikar Malchei Yisrael, as it was then known, on the night that Yitzhak Rabin was murdered.

    Adler’s crazy and criminal suggestions are not the ranting of some loony-tune individual and were not taken out of thin air – but are the inevitable result of the inordinate volume of repugnant venom that some of Obama’s political rivals, Jews and non-Jews included, have been spewing for the last three years.

    And anyone who lived through the Israeli right-wing’s days of rage against Rabin and the Oslo Accords can never forget that this deluge of deadly toxins need trigger just one homicidal chemical reaction in just one fanatic brain for history to be changed forever.

    Read on:
    http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/jewish-publisher-is-an-idiot-but-his-hatred-is-shared-by-many-1.408466

  108. avatar
    y_p_w January 25, 2012 at 1:13 am #

    aarrgghh: http://morristsai.com/blogpics/89fc9f2ede4b138987faf4a0136fcfd5.jpg.jpeg

    Sure.

    By the way, Polygamy Porter</i? is a real beer made by Wasatch Brewing of Park City, Utah. They introduced it before around the 2002 Winter Olympics, and it didn't necessarily go down well with Mormons (although you'd think they weren't potential customers). I saw some on a vacation in Utah, and I wish I'd bought a T-shirt. I guess it's also 4% alcohol by volume so that it isn't considered a "heavy beer" according to Utah alcoholic beverage laws, which would keep it from being sold in supermarkets.

    Oh – their official motto:

    Why Have Just One?

  109. avatar
    G January 25, 2012 at 1:44 am #

    Thanks for sharing this article Misha.

    There are two sections from it I want to quote and comment on. First:

    Under Israeli law, Adler could be prosecuted for inciting to violence and could be sentenced to five years in jail.

    I do not purport to know much about the Georgian penal code, but I note that it contains the offense of “criminal solicitation” which occurs “when, with intent that another person engage in conduct constituting a felony, he solicits, requests, commands, importunes, or otherwise attempts to cause the other person to engage in such conduct.” Adler’s column of January 13 might arguably fit the bill.

    I for one argue that it does fit that bill and deserves to be prosecuted under ANY available applicable state and federal law. Enough is enough alread!. The only way to avoid this increasingly irresponsible and dangerous rhetoric from happening is to use ZERO tolerance, and enforce the harshest penalties under law, whenever they can legitimately be applied.

    To that point, I thought the article did a great job of ending with driving the importance of this lesson of broader culpability:

    Rashi explains that even though it is clear that they had nothing to do with the murder, the responsibility of the leaders is such that they will be held liable even if they simply denied the victim food or escort.

    One wonders how many of today’s anti-Obama politicians and opinion-makers, the latter-day elders of yore, will be able to read Adler’s crazed counsel to Benjamin Netanyahu, and, may that day never come, take a good look in the mirror, wash their hands of the whole affair and declare with a clear conscience that their otherwise sharp and probing eyes didn’t see a thing.

    I echo those sentiments…

    misha: It’s just not Orly, redux:Jewish publisher is an idiot – but his hatred is shared by manyThere is something eerily familiar in all this, of course, for anyone who was present 16 years ago at Tel Aviv’s Kikar Malchei Yisrael, as it was then known, on the night that Yitzhak Rabin was murdered.Adler’s crazy and criminal suggestions are not the ranting of some loony-tune individual and were not taken out of thin air – but are the inevitable result of the inordinate volume of repugnant venom that some of Obama’s political rivals, Jews and non-Jews included, have been spewing for the last three years. And anyone who lived through the Israeli right-wing’s days of rage against Rabin and the Oslo Accords can never forget that this deluge of deadly toxins need trigger just one homicidal chemical reaction in just one fanatic brain for history to be changed forever. Read on:http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/jewish-publisher-is-an-idiot-but-his-hatred-is-shared-by-many-1.408466

  110. avatar
    Arthur January 25, 2012 at 7:48 am #

    Here’s a video interview with Domnica Cemortan, the young Moldovian woman who is speaking up for the captain of the capsized cruise ship, and just like Orly she’s sort of blond and speaks five languages. Twinsies?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/20/domnica-cemortan-defends-francesco-schettino_n_1220140.html?ref=world

    misha: They’ll go to bed on the first date. This is not a joke. Trust me on this.

  111. avatar
    J. Potter January 25, 2012 at 9:33 am #

    Arthur: the young Moldovian woman who is speaking up for the captain of the capsized cruise ship

    Are Moldovan just naturally melodramatic and contrary?

  112. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny January 25, 2012 at 9:33 am #

    Arthur:
    Here’s a video interview with Domnica Cemortan, the young Moldovian woman who is speaking up for the captain of the capsized cruise ship, and just like Orly she’s sort of blond and speaks five languages. Twinsies?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/20/domnica-cemortan-defends-francesco-schettino_n_1220140.html?ref=world

    Five languages, yes, but which ones? Orly claimed to be able to speak German, but when she wrote a sentence in “German” on her blog, it turned out to be Yiddish. I would not be surprised if her “Spanish”was really Ladino, the Romance language spoken by many Jews who descend from Jews who left Spain after the Reconquista and spread over the Ottoman Empire.

    Want to see how life was on the Costa Concordia? Use some downloader, convert to video and slowdown on this one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YvrYhsqnuU&feature=related

    (yes, I know, completely off topic, but anything to get John Drew to return here and offer excuses, yes?)

  113. avatar
    Arthur January 25, 2012 at 4:19 pm #

    Tuesday’s “Wall Street Journal” contained an opinion piece that led with a surprising statement: “Let’s just say right now what voters will be saying in November, once Barack Obama has been re-elected: Republicans deserve to lose.”

    The writer was bemoaning Newt Gingrich’s victory in South Carolina and complaining about the generally poor quality of the Republican contenders. But he is no fan of President Obama, and criticized the President for, among other things, cynically betraying, “his core promise as a candidate to be a unifying president.”

    I’ve never been able to understand criticism like that. To me, Obama has gone out of his way to try and build bridges with Republicans in Congress–only to be roundly, and often rudely, rebuffed.

    Whose characterization of the President is more accurate–mine or that WSJ guy?

  114. avatar
    G January 25, 2012 at 4:21 pm #

    You need to be slapped silly for even suggesting that. Bad Paul! Bad!!!

    Paul Pieniezny: (yes, I know, completely off topic, but anything to get John Drew to return here and offer excuses, yes?)

  115. avatar
    G January 25, 2012 at 4:23 pm #

    YOURS. I’m with you Arthur… as is historical reality.

    Arthur: I’ve never been able to understand criticism like that. To me, Obama has gone out of his way to try and build bridges with Republicans in Congress–only to be roundly, and often rudely, rebuffed.

    Whose characterization of the President is more accurate–mine or that WSJ guy?

  116. avatar
    misha January 25, 2012 at 7:02 pm #

    Indiana has just passed a ‘right to work’ law. This is what happens with non-union labor. You have been warned:

    http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i10031

  117. avatar
    JPotter January 25, 2012 at 8:18 pm #

    misha:
    Indiana has just passed a right to work’ law. This is what happens with non-union labor. You have been warned:

    http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i10031

    Writing from Okieland, the buckle of the “Right to Work” Belt, all I can say is … Nice one! :D

  118. avatar
    sfjeff January 26, 2012 at 2:48 am #

    I am reading David McCollough’s Truman right now, and just finished reading about the 1944 Presidential campaign- and two quotes caught my eye:

    First Franklin Roosevelt:

    “These Republican leaders have not been content with attacks – on me, or my wife, or my sons. No, not content with that, they now include my little dog, Fala. Well of course, I don’t resent attacks, and my family doesn’t resent attacks, but (pause) Fala does resent them…”

    This just reminded me of how much Birthers hate it when people use humor to respond to their attacks.

    Next a quote from Dewey- Republican candidate for President:

    “Now…with the aid of Sidney HIlleman…the Communists are seizing control of the New Deal…to control the Government of the United States”.

    Sound familiar- just replace Hilleman with Ayers, or whatever administration figure Birthers decide is a communist.

  119. avatar
    misha January 26, 2012 at 11:21 am #

    OT: We had some action in my neighborhood last night. I’m sure everyone will enjoy my comment:
    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dncrime/Cops-investigating-massage-parlor-robbery.html

  120. avatar
    G January 26, 2012 at 12:08 pm #

    LOL! That was entertaining to read. Thanks for sharing!

    misha: OT: We had some action in my neighborhood last night. I’m sure everyone will enjoy my comment:http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dncrime/Cops-investigating-massage-parlor-robbery.html

  121. avatar
    Arthur January 26, 2012 at 1:28 pm #

    DO NOT CENTSURE THIS POST!!! THERE IS NOTHING HERE THAT SHOULD BE CENTED!@!

    bff Sir Lordly basilesk alerted me to exploSOIVE u2oob flick’ah. VERY IMPORTANT. blows lid of nobamahomo. yes, he discusses homosekschoula relationship!! Not an article II prescident. Goodbye oblama!! All obots must watch, then in court house trail., whell see hoos frogmarchin and a courtin’.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=tQTqnL5mLZU

  122. avatar
    JPotter January 27, 2012 at 1:49 am #

    Great post on competence at a fun site with a brilliant identity! Old, but one of OCT’s favorite topics.

    http://www.damninteresting.com/unskilled-and-unaware-of-it/

  123. avatar
    Arthur January 27, 2012 at 11:10 am #

    Thanks for the link, JPotter. The site contains many intriguing articles.

    Hey, if you’ve read about Saul Alinsky but have never heard him speak, here’s a 1970 interview with the man himself.
    http://newstalgia.crooksandliars.com/
    Scroll down to the bottom of the page to find the interview.

  124. avatar
    J. Potter January 27, 2012 at 11:34 am #

    Arthur: if you’ve read about Saul Alinsky but have never heard him speak

    And thanks for that link, Arthur!
    The simpleminded, ignorant obsession with Saul Alinsky cracks me up. The man helped those without resources unite in opposition to establish forces. Now who should oppose that? The establishment, duh! Gingrich keeps associating him with Obama, as if he’s waving a houdou talisman before his mindwiped followers. Keeps making me wonder why he’s so complimentary to his opposition! ;)

    Heard a great piece recently, theme was “So, what’s the deal with Alinsky?”, was a crackup …. can’t find a link for it tho, and forgot the show. D’oh!

  125. avatar
    misha January 27, 2012 at 2:20 pm #

    J. Potter: The simpleminded, ignorant obsession with Saul Alinsky cracks me up. The man helped those without resources unite in opposition to establish forces. Now who should oppose that?

    ‘Obama was influenced by Alinsky’ is a dog whistle to anti-Semites. It’s couched in a way that people like Sheldon Adelson, that momser, can ignore it.

    People like Palin and her ilk have the highest praise for Israel, but denigrate the Jewish people. Craziest alliance I’ve ever seen.

  126. avatar
    misha January 27, 2012 at 2:24 pm #

    As long as we are looking at Crooks and Liars, I would like to recommend:

    Colbert Makes a Mockery of Santorum Refusing to Refute Elderly Birther at Campaign Stop

    http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/colbert-makes-mockery-santorum-refusing-re

    Brilliant!

  127. avatar
    Obsolete January 27, 2012 at 2:27 pm #

    I read Alinsky’s “Rules For Radicals” when I was about 17, the same time I had discovered and devoured books by Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Eldridge Cleaver, Tim Leary, and (best of all) Emmett Grogan.
    I found it a little dry for my tastes at the time- I had no idea it was so important and powerful that it would lead to a Marxist-usurper takeover of America some 20 years in the future, or maybe I wouldn’t have given it away after I finished it.

  128. avatar
    misha January 27, 2012 at 2:35 pm #

    Obsolete: I read Alinsky’s “Rules For Radicals” when I was about 17, the same time I had discovered and devoured books by Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Eldridge Cleaver, Tim Leary, and (best of all) Emmett Grogan.

    When I took sociology courses in college, both of Alinsky’s books were required reading.

  129. avatar
    Majority Will January 27, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    Re: Malcolm X and Jo Ann Newman

    I had to slog through an inane birther blog of fiction and sewage to figure out what this was about:

    (excerpt) As I revealed in Obama RUI: Running Under The Influence Of Uncle Fred, “Barack Obama II” was most probably a character created by “Uncle Fred”, to effect his four-decades-long dastardly scheme to overthrow America.

    To slap America in the face with socialism, by infilitrating America’s White House with a candidate who purported to be one of us’.

    Enter, stage left: Fred’s leading male character, “Barack Obama”.

    The young man chosen – decades ago – to play this character: Bâri′ M. Shabazz, son of Fred’s close biological relative, Jo Ann Newman, and Malcolm X.

    (source: Trowbridge’s blog of birther fiction. Search and read at your own risk of nausea.)

    Sheer stupidity gobbled up by a few gullible fools.

    Oooh, evil socialism. Idiots.

  130. avatar
    J. Potter January 27, 2012 at 2:41 pm #

    misha: People like Palin and her ilk have the highest praise for Israel, but denigrate the Jewish people. Craziest alliance I’ve ever seen.

    Dispensational Millenialism at its finest! Study of “christian” nuttery is a hobby of mine. Can recommend plenty iof reading if you really want to try to understand the insanity. The best is an old paperback called Raptured from the mid-50s …. a literal novelization of Scofield’s interpretation of Revelation. I pray every night for a film adaption. With CGI, all things are possible. ;)

    Thanks for the Colbert link!

  131. avatar
    Arthur January 27, 2012 at 2:52 pm #

    I completely agree, Misha. If Alinksky’s name had been “Ben Harrison” it wouldn’t work at all in the way that Newt and Co. know that it will. The sound of his name pricks up the ears of right-wing audiences, conjuring up visions of Eastern European communist Jewry, and in Obama’s case, of African-American dupes controlled by shadowy Jewish overlords. It reminds me of the way in which Orwell used “Emmanuel Goldstein” as the name for the arch enemy of Oceania in “1984.”

    misha: Obama was influenced by Alinsky’ is a dog whistle to anti-Semites

  132. avatar
    Arthur January 27, 2012 at 3:17 pm #

    Hey, I was thinking . . . you know what we need to do? We need to make a video called, “S**t Birther’s Say.” Which birther lines would you include? I’ll start with, “Let me feenish!!!!”

  133. avatar
    J. Potter January 27, 2012 at 4:37 pm #

    This must be from last year, but I guess I missed it. I do have to renew my tag next week….

    Oklahoma Okays New Birther License Plates
    http://www.crystalair.com/story.php?id=200908006

  134. avatar
    Keith January 27, 2012 at 7:58 pm #

    J. Potter:
    This must be from last year, but I guess I missed it. I do have to renew my tag next week….

    Oklahoma Okays New Birther License Plates
    http://www.crystalair.com/story.php?id=200908006

    I don’t get it.

    Are they trying to say Oklahoma isn’t in America, that it is somewhere in Africa?

    I always thought there was something weird about acquaintances that went to school in Oklahoma, now I know why.

  135. avatar
    Arthur January 27, 2012 at 9:23 pm #

    J.Potter:

    My jaw dropped. You had me for a minute, and then I started reading the headlines of other articles and began to laugh. Good one!

    J. Potter: This must be from last year, but I guess I missed it. I do have to renew my tag next week….Oklahoma Okays New Birther License Plateshttp://www.crystalair.com/story.php?id=200908006

  136. avatar
    JPotter January 27, 2012 at 9:34 pm #

    Arthur: You had me for a minute,

    Well, I really do have to renew my tag next week …. ;)

  137. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 27, 2012 at 10:27 pm #

    Web traffic skyrocketed yesterday, the day of the Georgia hearing. There were over 3.132 unique visitors on the site. Usually it’s under 1,000. Also the percentage of New visitors was up at 40%.

  138. avatar
    G January 27, 2012 at 10:57 pm #

    LOL! I hadn’t seen that before, either.

    J. Potter: This must be from last year, but I guess I missed it. I do have to renew my tag next week….Oklahoma Okays New Birther License Plateshttp://www.crystalair.com/story.php?id=200908006

  139. avatar
    JPotter January 28, 2012 at 1:55 am #

    Now here is a whopper I had so far managed to miss: WND / ORYR alleges an Obot threatened to kill Arpaio for working on his ‘report’. I say, “Sad, but nuts”.

    An anonymous poster went on a rampage on 10/31 at ORYR.

    On 11/10 another poster states the threatening loon’s IP has been pinpointed.

    Today, ORYR states the poster was arrested, implying he was arrested for threatening Arpaio:

    “The investigation into an internet death threat started in October, and Cox was arrested Friday on an unrelated warrant for assault. He is now being investigated in the internet death threat of MCSO Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his family. Deputies obtained a search warrant at Google, where they were then connected to Cox.”

    The ORYR story provides numerous media citations, so I assume it’s not a hoax. Here’s a fun one from a TN NBC affiliate, which invites us to takes Arpaio’s word for everything:

    “Sheriff Joe Arpaio calls him the prime suspect in an internet death threat against him.”

    Arpaio’s office has issued a press release.

    And of course, much of it ties back to guess who at WND pushing the story: Corsi! Corsi joins Arpaio in alleging that Arpaio has received numerous death threats in response to his promise of a report. A report which “has Michelle and Barack in a panic.”

    If the guy actually posted what appears at ORYR, then he needs to be busted. The internet need not be the Wild Wild Web. But alleging that he’s an Obama supporter is just another birther smear. Corsi, Arpaio, et al, are conveniently omitting the rest of the threatening party’s posts, in which he expresses hatred for all of humanity, clearly revels himself as a white bigot, states that Cain and Obama are controlled by the same globalist masters, and expresses a very specific, other-than-Obama Presidential preference.

    The posts were made on this story [ CAUTION: LANGUAGE ]:
    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/10/michael-savage-arrest-politicos.html

    Birthers will attempt to exploit anything.

  140. avatar
    G January 28, 2012 at 5:34 am #

    Agreed. What a disturbing story! That is the problem with crazy stuff – it brings out the worst in other crazy people. They did the right thing of reporting this loser’s threats and getting him arrested for that. There is simply no excuse for *any* of these crazy people who make death threats. Throw the book at all of them, I say!

    JPotter: If the guy actually posted what appears at ORYR, then he needs to be busted. The internet need not be the Wild Wild Web. But alleging that he’s an Obama supporter is just another birther smear. Corsi, Arpaio, et al, are conveniently omitting the rest of the threatening party’s posts, in which he expresses hatred for all of humanity, clearly revels himself as a white bigot, states that Cain and Obama are controlled by the same globalist masters, and expresses a very specific, other-than-Obama Presidential preference.
    The posts were made on this story [ CAUTION: LANGUAGE ]:
    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/10/michael-savage-arrest-politicos.html
    Birthers will attempt to exploit anything.

  141. avatar
    Majority Will January 28, 2012 at 1:51 pm #

    “Scheduled Maintenance
    ThePostEmail.com is Upgrading Servers
    We will be back shortly and running faster than ever! Thank you for your patience!

    For the time being, we are temporarily posting at http://gulagbound.com

    Gulag Bound. There’s a good candidate for Hatewatch.

  142. avatar
    JPotter January 28, 2012 at 11:49 pm #

    Last month, Orly tried to make a birfer out of Gene Simmons! LOL!!!
    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=22054

  143. avatar
    G January 29, 2012 at 12:00 am #

    Wow! That is super cool and impressive! Thanks for sharing!!!

    charo: TOTALLY cool…http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120125/toronto-lego-man-space-120125/20120125?hub=TorontoNewHome

  144. avatar
    Majority Will January 29, 2012 at 12:11 am #

    charo:
    TOTALLY cool…
    http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120125/toronto-lego-man-space-120125/20120125?hub=TorontoNewHome

    It really is. Thanks.

    Maybe Newt was really talking about Lego colonies on the moon.

  145. avatar
    Keith January 29, 2012 at 6:07 am #

    charo:
    TOTALLY cool…
    http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120125/toronto-lego-man-space-120125/20120125?hub=TorontoNewHome

    Yeah, it is cool.

    People sending up cell phone cameras on balloons seems to be becoming the Science Fair project of choice since a couple of college kids did it a couple of years ago.

  146. avatar
    Majority Will January 29, 2012 at 6:18 am #

    Keith: Yeah, it is cool.

    People sending up cell phone cameras on balloons seems to be becoming the Science Fair project of choice since a couple of college kids did it a couple of years ago.

    The giant bunch of balloons tied to a lawn chair with a pellet gun for altitude control is still my favorite.

    “A man can’t just sit around.”

    (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Walters)

  147. avatar
    charo January 29, 2012 at 11:28 pm #

    The kids got the inspiration from the college students I believe. It was neat to see high school kids work out the details. I love the shots; Earth is so beautiful from that perspective. I’m jealous of the lego guy…

  148. avatar
    misha January 30, 2012 at 1:21 am #

    misha: Obama was influenced by Alinsky’ is a dog whistle to anti-Semites. It’s couched in a way that people like Sheldon Adelson, that momser, can ignore it.

    Arthur: I completely agree, Misha. If Alinksky’s name had been “Ben Harrison” it wouldn’t work at all in the way that Newt and Co. know that it will. The sound of his name pricks up the ears of right-wing audiences, conjuring up visions of Eastern European communist Jewry, and in Obama’s case, of African-American dupes controlled by shadowy Jewish overlords.

    And here is the story from the LA Times: “Goodbye, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. and William Ayers. Hello, European socialists and Saul Alinsky.

    “We will run an American campaign,” Newt Gingrich proclaimed to Republicans in Palm Beach, Fla., on Saturday night, framing this distinction with Obama: “I am for the Declaration of Independence; he is for the writing of Saul Alinsky. I am for the Constitution; he is for European socialism.”

    Read on:
    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-campaign-attacks-20120130,0,6641100.story

  149. avatar
    misha January 30, 2012 at 1:24 am #

    Arthur: My jaw dropped. You had me for a minute, and then I started reading the headlines of other articles and began to laugh. Good one!

    You want satire? Here’s from yours truly:

    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/11/odonnell-in-aristocrats.html
    and
    http://newyorkleftist.blogspot.com/2010/11/glenn-beck-accidentally-not-put-down.html

  150. avatar
    Keith January 30, 2012 at 2:44 am #

    misha: And here is the story from the LA Times: “Goodbye, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. and William Ayers. Hello, European socialists and Saul Alinsky.

    And here is a story that explains why Alinsky is such a demon:

    Frank Mankiewicz: America, Meet Saul Alinsky, The Great Man Newt Gingrich Wants You To Hate

  151. avatar
    Obsolete January 30, 2012 at 9:14 am #

    From the article Keith linked to above:

    “Saul’s genius was as a political tactician and organizer,” Von Hoffman said. “He had humor, imagination and ingenuity.” (He was also famous enough at the peak of his career that after the Detroit riots in 1967, he was invited to discuss the civil rights struggle with then-Michigan Gov. George Romney, Mitt Romney’s father.)”

    So it was really the Romney family that was palling along with Alinsky? Gee, I wonder why you never hear that?

  152. avatar
    J. Potter January 30, 2012 at 12:13 pm #

    Add this to attitudes contributing to birtherism:

    From a poster on another forum, something to contemplate…

    “All the real news is only on the internet.”

    Had to do a set of full-body facepalms on that one.

  153. avatar
    J. Potter January 31, 2012 at 5:06 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Tea party, birthers and racists, oh my!http://www.irehr.org/component/k2/item/390-tea-party-nation-pushes-birther-conspiracy-heads-to-florida

    Ay-yi-yi. Surprised Mr. Philips would go full-on birther at such a late date (Nov 2010). He gives his particular birfin’ preference in a linked article, located at …

    http://www.irehr.org/issue-areas/tea-party-nationalism/tea-party-news-and-analysis/item/346-tea-party-nation-founder-declares-himself-a-birther

    Something about Indonesia. Whatever. At least it wasn’t PDF Madness. Not exactly Vattelism either.

  154. avatar
    G January 31, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

    As that article points out, those large Tea Party organizations (Tea Party Nation & Tea Party Express) seem to have a particularly strong connection to neo-confederate style racism as well as Birtherism…

    So yeah, anytime some clown comes here and tries to pull the lame “victim” card of claiming that none of this stuff is happening, just send them the link to that article.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Tea party, birthers and racists, oh my!http://www.irehr.org/component/k2/item/390-tea-party-nation-pushes-birther-conspiracy-heads-to-florida

  155. avatar
    Arthur January 31, 2012 at 8:56 pm #

    May I recommend to everyone the following candidate for president of the United States: Montgomery Blair Sibley?

    http://www.montgomeryblairsibley.com/1.html

    I was looking for laughs at Dr. Kate’s site, and came across this kilt-loving, bagpipe blowing whack-a-loon. Kate is promoting him as a write-in candidate for president whom she thinks will be able to take down Mr. Obama. The link whisks you to the candidate’s biography, where Sibley paints the long, painful collapse of his personal and professional life as a miracle of Nietzschean survival.

    Oh how great is their infamy when birthers must look to a disbarred ex-con for deliverance.

  156. avatar
    JPotter January 31, 2012 at 9:06 pm #

    Arthur: May I recommend to everyone the following candidate for president of the United States: Montgomery Blair Sibley?

    Wow!

    “because I can do this, I must do this.”

    Unassailable logic there. I can do a near-infinite number of things, yet choose not to do them, and am a much better person for it.

  157. avatar
    Majority Will January 31, 2012 at 9:17 pm #

    Arthur:
    May I recommend to everyone the following candidate for president of the United States:Montgomery Blair Sibley?

    http://www.montgomeryblairsibley.com/1.html

    I was looking for laughs at Dr. Kate’s site, and came across this kilt-loving, bagpipe blowing whack-a-loon. Kate is promoting him as a write-in candidate for president whom she thinks will be able to take down Mr. Obama. The link whisks you to the candidate’s biography, where Sibley paints the long, painful collapse of his personal and professional life as a miracle of Nietzschean survival.

    Oh how great is their infamy when birthers must look to a disbarred ex-con for deliverance.

    Lord Basil will probably demand to see his “long form” (without layers, of course).

  158. avatar
    El Diablo Negro January 31, 2012 at 9:28 pm #

    Majority Will: Lord Basil will probably demand to see his “long form” (without layers, of course).

    There are no layers when wearing a kilt…(shudders)

  159. avatar
    Arthur January 31, 2012 at 9:33 pm #

    Given Lord Basil’s obvious homophobia, I wonder what exactly he’s hiding in his own long form.

    Majority Will: Lord Basil will probably demand to see his “long form” (without layers, of course).

  160. avatar
    Arthur January 31, 2012 at 9:39 pm #

    As the great sage Lao-tzu observed in the “Dao De Jing,”

    Practice not-doing,
    and everything will fall into place.

    JPotter: I can do a near-infinite number of things, yet choose not to do them, and am a much better person for it.

  161. avatar
    JPotter January 31, 2012 at 10:58 pm #

    Arthur:
    As the great sage Lao-tzu observed in the “Dao De Jing,”

    Practice not-doing,
    and everything will fall into place.

    Amen, Arthur! I always think of it as Preserving the Potential of the Uncarved Block …. but the fancy Asian name for it slips my mind.