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Indonesian comment dump

Certain persons (who shall remain BIRTHERS), dump unrelated comments onto our current topics. The current open topic is pretty full, so I’m making this a place for birthers to dump their Indonesian citizenship junk. Maybe I should start charging a waste recycling fee.

18 Responses to Indonesian comment dump

  1. avatar
    Donna LS February 20, 2012 at 11:46 am #

    [This seems very incomplete. I have added questions in boldface. Doc]:

    “- – -from the research we (Who’s “we?”) have done, it appears that Soetoro became an Indonesian citizen. And you know this how? When Soetoro/Obama was approximately four (4) years old his parents divorced and thereafter, Soetoro/Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia. Evidence What evidence? points to the fact that Lolo Soetoro either signed a government form legally “acknowledging” Soetoro/Obama as his son But Barack was Obama Sr.’s son, not Soetoro’s or “adopted” Soetoro why do you thing such an adoption occurred?, either of which changed any citizenship status Why would it have changed his citizenship? Soetoro/Obama had to a “natural” naturalized citizens are never considered “natural” citizen of Indonesia.””At the time Barry Soetoro was in Indonesia, all Indonesian students were required to carry government identity cards or Karty Tanda Pendudaks You mean that card that they only issue when someone reaches age 18?, as well as family card identification called a Kartu Keluarga. The Kartu Keluarga is a family card which bears the legal names and citizenship status of all family members. So do you have a copy of the card to show us? I didn’t think so.
    Soetoro/Obama was registered in a public school as an Indonesian citizen by the name of Barry Soetoro and his father was listed as Lolo Soetoro, M.A. The Inside Edition story that originally presented the form quoted school officials as saying it was common practice to write the Father’s surname on the form Indonesia did not allow foreign students to attend their public schools in the late 1960’s or 1970’s, And why do you think that is true? and any time a child was registered for a public school, the child’s name and citizenship status were verified through the Indonesian Government. Who do you think that is true? See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia (Undang-Undang Dasar Republik Indonesia 1945), Chapter 13, Law No. 62 of 1958 (all citizens of Indonesia have a right to education). The right to an education for citizens doesn’t forbid an education to non citizens. The Indonesian school record, indicates that Soetoro/Obama’s name is “Barry Soetoro;” his nationality is “Indonesia” and his father “Lolo Soetoro, M.A. There was no way for Soetoro/Obama to have attended school in Jakarta, Indonesia legally unless he was an Indonesian citizen, On what basis do you make this claim. as Indonesia was under tight rule and was a Police State. See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia (Undang-Undang Dasar Republik Indonesia 1945), Law No. 62 of 1958. Law 62 doesn’t say anything about who can attend school. These facts indicate that Obama/Soetoro is an Indonesian citizen What facts? All I see is a bunch of misinformation and speculation, and therefore he is not eligible to be President of the United States.””
    “Under Indonesian law, when a male acknowledges a child as his son, it deems the son, in this case Soetoro/Obama, an Indonesian State citizen. You don’t know what an acknowledgement means do you? It means that the person is the biological father of the child. Obviously not the case for Soetoro See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 62 of 1958 concerning Immigration Affairs and Indonesian Civil Code (Kitab Undang-undang Hukum Perdata) (KUHPer) (Burgerlijk Wetboek voor Indonesie).
    Furthermore, under the Indonesian adoption law, once an Indonesian citizen adopts a child, the adoption severs the child’s relationship to the birth parents, and the adopted child is given the same status as a natural child and the child takes the name of his step-father, in this case, Soetoro. See Indonesian Constitution, Article 2.” The actual law is written so as to exclude dual citizenship and explicitly states that any other citizenship must be renounced. This is impossible for someone under age 16.
    “As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian “natural” citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. “natural born” status, if he in fact he ever held such, which we doubt. Your doubts are not evidence. Soetoro/Obama could have only become “naturalized” if the proper paperwork were filed with the U.S. State Department, after going through U.S. Immigration upon his return to the United States; in which case, Soetoro/Obama would have received a Certification of Citizenship indicating “naturalized.””We are informed, believe and thereon allege Obama/Soetoro was never naturalized in the United States after his return. Barack Obama could never have lost his US Citizens, see Perkins v Elg Soetoro/Obama was ten (10) years old when he returned to Hawaii to live with his grandparents. Soetoro/Obama’s mother did not return with him. Therefore, it appears that she did not apply for citizenship for Soetoro/Obama in the United States. because he was already a US citizen from birth If citizenship for Soetoro/Obama had been applied for in 1971, Soetoro/Obama would have a Certification of Citizenship. If Soetoro/Obama returned in 1971 to Hawaii without going through U.S. Immigration, today he would be an “illegal alien” – and obviously not able to serve as President, but also his term as a United States Senator from Illinois for nearly four (4) years was illegal. Only we have all seen a copy of Obama’s US Passport, so he must be a citizen and you’re full of it. We further believe believing pigs can fly doesn’t make it true Soetoro might have reentered the United States at age ten (10) by showing a copy of his Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth, which he received when his birth was registered in Hawaii” You have a vivid imagination
    “In addition, we have been unable to locate any legal documents wherein Soetoro’s name was legally changed from Barry Soetoro to Barack Hussein Obama. Nor have you been able to obtain any legal document showing that Obama’s name was ever changed in the first place. Checkmate. Soetoro/Obama’s silence on these issues is deafening and his refusal to release such records to prove that none of this occurred results in his status as Acting Commander in Chief at best, and a willful action on his part to deceive the American People and the Armed Forces of the United States so that he may wield power that is in non-compliance with the United States Constitution>” Good grief, how many birth certificates to you want? He can’t show you adoption papers and related things that only exist in your imagination
    “Many cases are pending that are asking the same question as Philip Berg. Most cases are long dismissed The question however simple now has a life of its own life devoid of any basis in fact and it is now obvious it will not die easily. We’ve known that for 3 years. It is whether Barack Obama is in fact constitutionally eligible to assume the office of President. Congress decided that back in 2009. Please try to keep up More than X cases Not that many any more asserting birth certificate/Indonesian myths. Most have moved on to crank legal definitions of “natural born citizen” are pending throughout the country and new ones are planned until the matter is put to rest.” As long as there are crazy people in the world, it will not be put to rest
    “the issue is gaining traction in other states, too, including Alabama, Tennessee, Arizona, New Hampshire, and even Illinois, Obama’s home political base.” The courts in Alabama, New Hampshire and Illinois have all said your theories are crap. Birther cases are dropping like flies.

  2. avatar
    misha February 20, 2012 at 12:10 pm #

    Donna LS: “the issue is gaining traction in other states, too, including Alabama, Tennessee, Arizona, New Hampshire, and even Illinois, Obama’s home political base.”

    Donna: I think what is more important is that Obama’s Kenya BC gets traction.

  3. avatar
    Scientist February 20, 2012 at 12:27 pm #

    Donna LS: Indonesia did not allow foreign students to attend their public schools in the late 1960’s or 1970’s, and any time a child was registered for a public school, the child’s name and citizenship status were verified through the Indonesian Government. See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia (Undang-Undang Dasar Republik Indonesia 1945), Chapter 13, Law No. 62 of 1958 (all citizens of Indonesia have a right to education).

    How does “All citizens have a right to education” equal “ONLY citizens can attend school”? In the US, all citizens of school age have a right to attend school, but that in no way means non-citizens can’t attend public schools in the US. Obviously, they do, and in large numbers.

  4. avatar
    Majority Will February 20, 2012 at 12:43 pm #

    Donna LS: The question however simple now has a life of its own and it is now obvious it will not die easily

    Only and simply because pathological liars and despicable bigots give it life.

    “Unlike in Alice in Wonderland, simply saying something is so does not make it so.”

    – United States District Court Judge Clay D. Land

  5. avatar
    Rickey February 20, 2012 at 2:23 pm #

    Donna LS:

    In addition, we have been unable to locate any legal documents wherein Soetoro’s name was legally changed from Barry Soetoro to Barack Hussein Obama.

    Where are the legal documents wherein Obama’s name was legally changed from Barack Hussein Obama to Barry Soetoro?

  6. avatar
    misha February 20, 2012 at 3:57 pm #

    Donna LS: In addition, we have been unable to locate any legal documents wherein Soetoro’s name was legally changed from Barry Soetoro to Barack Hussein Obama.

    Rickey: Where are the legal documents wherein Obama’s name was legally changed from Barack Hussein Obama to Barry Soetoro?

    That’s easy. The documents are in the glove box of a Nash, parked in front of the Mexican house where George Romney was born. You’ll be able to spot it right away – it has a dog tied to the roof. It runs in the family.

  7. avatar
    donna February 20, 2012 at 5:20 pm #

    perhaps these birthers should listen to the dsouza interview of brit author firstbrook on c-span

    he spent weeks at a time in kenya with obama’s family members and friends over the course of a year

    BBC historian Peter Firstbrook discussed his exploration of 27 generations of President Obama’s Kenyan ancestors with author and president of The King’s College, Dinesh D’Souza.

    http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/297941-1

  8. avatar
    Paper February 20, 2012 at 6:55 pm #

    It will not die easily, but who cares? It will never grow either.

    Annihilation of falsehood is not a useful goal, nor a healthy one. Not every fool needs to be corrected. But every fool who goes to court will be rejected.

    Donna LS: The question however simple now has a life of its own life devoid of any basis in fact and it is now obvious it will not die easily. W

  9. avatar
    Xyxox February 20, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    Heck, the moon landing denials haven’t died easily. Even worse, the idea that the earth is flat and the idea that we reside in a geocentric universe have yet to die.easily.

  10. avatar
    Donna LS February 20, 2012 at 8:21 pm #

    To Dr. Conspiracy – My apologies for only entering quotes around the messages I posted w/o identification – Phil Berg, Esq was the person I mostly ‘copied and pasted’ from. – –

    more quotes – MRS. RONDEAU: Do you think the national media was involved in a conspiracy to keep Obama’s history from the American people? Did they know he wasn’t eligible?

    ATTY. BERG: I think so. I think it’s pressure from the top. The national media in our country is really owned by about three or four corporations which are controlled by individuals, and I believe that these individuals have put pressure on them. There was an investigation done that there is actually an office in the White House which is keeping pressure on the national media not to cover the story
    MRS. RONDEAU: Yours was the first case that was filed back in August 2008, correct?

    ATTY. BERG: Yes. August 21, 2008 was when I filed the first lawsuit, which was significant because it was before the Democratic National Convention, and we served Obama and Howard Dean. At that point, I said that Howard Dean violated his duty and responsibility as head of the Democratic National Committee by not pulling Obama in and saying, “The allegations here are that you’re not “natural born; show me you are, or you’re not getting nominated no matter what you’ve planned here in Denver.” It’s a disgrace, because Howard Dean should have called him in at that point, and obviously, it shows that Dean was in cahoots with Obama.

    When all is said and done, I think that Obama, Michelle Obama, Howard Dean, senior officials of the Obama campaign and senior officials of the Obama administration who are all aware of this should be subjected to our criminal justice system in this country, tried, and those convicted should go to jail. As far as I’m concerned, Obama should be tried, convicted, and go to jail until he’s deported. People are saying, “Oh, if the truth came out and Obama’s out of office, there would be riots in the street.” I’m saying, “When the truth comes out – it’s not if – When the truth comes out, and hopefully while Obama is still in office and we force him out of office, I’m going to hold a massive news conference with all the political and religious leaders in this country and say, “Stop. You’re going to go riot in the streets? You’re going to injure and kill people? You’re going to destroy property? For what? For this phony, this fraud, this impostor who knew from the beginning what he was doing?” I think it’s the biggest hoax against the United States of America in our history in 234 years, and all those people should be held accountable – – ETC ETC – –
    ATTY. BERG: And he has already spent over $1.6 million – it’s probably over $2,000,000 now – fighting my three lawsuits and the 50-100 other lawsuits out there. You don’t spend that kind of money unless you’re hiding something.

    The other thing is that Congressman Posey from Florida introduced legislation that as of 2012, anyone running for president must prove he or she is constitutionally eligible. Several Republicans cosponsored the proposal, but not one Democrat. Now why didn’t the Democrats join in? Because the Democrats who have committed or are, in my opinion, on the verge of treason, have not signed on because they know that Obama is a fraud and a phony.

    FOR THE REST OF THE ‘STORY’ – – http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/10/21/obama-eligibility-attorney-to-hold-rally-in-dc-this-saturday/

  11. avatar
    Thrifty February 20, 2012 at 8:23 pm #

    Oh I get it now.

    In traditional scholarly pursuits, you first present established facts, then use those facts to expand upon and explain your thesis.

    In Birtherism, you do the same thing, but instead just make up the facts.

  12. avatar
    Thrifty February 20, 2012 at 8:33 pm #

    Donna, are you trying to add authority to your paranoid conspiracy theory by quoting OTHER paranoid conspiracy theorists?

  13. avatar
    Rickey February 20, 2012 at 9:05 pm #

    Donna LS:

    The other thing is that Congressman Posey from Florida introduced legislation that as of 2012, anyone running for president must prove he or she is constitutionally eligible.Several Republicans cosponsored the proposal, but not one Democrat.Now why didn’t the Democrats join in?Because the Democrats who have committed or are, in my opinion, on the verge of treason, have not signed on because they know that Obama is a fraud and a phony.

    Here’s a better question for you. The Republicans have held a majority in the House of Representatives since January 2011. Why haven’t they acted on Posey’s bill? They don’t need any Democrats to pass it in the House.

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 20, 2012 at 9:39 pm #

    I knew that the argument, and in particular the mistakes, were all Berg. In fact I’d already disassembled Berg’s argument in my article Hollister v. Indonesian Citizenship Law back in February of 2009. Berg’s complaint in Hollister was a total mess (so bad that I could hardly credit it to Berg).

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/hollister-v-indonesian-citizenship-law/

    Donna LS: To Dr. Conspiracy – My apologies for only entering quotes around the messages I posted w/o identification – Phil Berg, Esq was the person I mostly copied and pasted’ from. – –

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 20, 2012 at 9:44 pm #

    Well, Berg is a conspiracy theorist. He believes George Bush was responsible for 9/11. The problem with 9/11 conspiracy theories and Obama conspiracy theories too is that over time the number of people required to be in on the conspiracy or controlled by it grows exponentially. In the case of Obama conspiracies, the entire Congress, the entire media, the Supreme Court, the State of Hawaii, the Democratic Party leadership must all either be in on it, or afraid of what would happen if they talked. In the minds of the birthers, Barack Obama has gained god-like power over the entire government and the press. It’s raving lunacy what the birthers are saying.

    Donna LS: more quotes – MRS. RONDEAU: Do you think the national media was involved in a conspiracy to keep Obama’s history from the American people? Did they know he wasn’t eligible?

    ATTY. BERG: I think so. I think it’s pressure from the top

  16. avatar
    ASK Esq February 20, 2012 at 10:05 pm #

    Donna LS: At the time Barry Soetoro was in Indonesia, all Indonesian students were required to carry government identity cards or Karty Tanda Pendudaks, as well as family card identification called a Kartu Keluarga. The Kartu Keluarga is a family card which bears the legal names and citizenship status of all family members.

    Well, if that card had to indicate the citizenship status of the carrier, wouldn’t that indicate that non-citizens could attend the schools?

  17. avatar
    G February 20, 2012 at 11:54 pm #

    *yawn*

    So, to summarize, we’ve got one PUMA Birther quoting another PUMA Birther in regards to a zombie interview from several years back, in regards to a FAILED lawsuit from several years prior to that…

    ….zzzzzzzzzz… *snore*

    Donna LS: To Dr. Conspiracy – My apologies for only entering quotes around the messages I posted w/o identification – Phil Berg, Esq was the person I mostly copied and pasted’ from. – –

  18. avatar
    Northland10 February 21, 2012 at 8:53 pm #

    An Indonesian comment dump seems to be left wanting without Sven.