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Is President a dual citizen? Passports examined

The “birthers” have finally gotten their way as the President presented his passport for public examination as evidence that he is not a dual citizen, something that would disqualify him for office.

Apparently birtherism is becoming an international phenomenon as continuing rumors circulated about Haitian President Michel J. Martelly, who in a press conference this past Thursday presented his passports for public inspection. A total of 8 passports were made available along with photos from them. Martelly states that he was never a U. S. Citizen, although at one time he held a Green Card. Under Haitian law, the President may not be a dual citizen. Thanks to Storyful.com for the story.

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80 Responses to Is President a dual citizen? Passports examined

  1. avatar
    JPotter March 13, 2012 at 10:43 am #

    I can hear it already … “look, we told ya it weren’t about race! black people birf, too!”

    Or worse, “President Obummer had a green card? If he was a citizen, why’d he need a green card? Impeach the Kenyan! Fire up the Hoveround, we’re heading to Washington!”

    In any case, birthers will definitely assume Haitian law = US law = Haitian law. After all, all countries are the same, right? Vattel wrote the rules for all of them at the beginning of time.

  2. avatar
    Majority Will March 13, 2012 at 11:00 am #

    “Fire up the Hoveround, we’re heading to Washington!”

    For the inauguration of the 52nd President?

    “Travel Diary. Day Four. We’re near the end of the driveway. Still really angry. Spittle cup getting full. HEY! Who ate my traveling jerky? Ooh, the mail is here.”

  3. avatar
    donna March 13, 2012 at 11:12 am #

    have the birthers checked into santorum’s ITALIAN citizenship or paul’s FRENCH citizenship?

    i have SEVERAL questions regarding what romney’s family did about their us citizenship when then FLED TO MEXICO TO AVOID PROSECUTION

    after all, at the time, dual citizenship wasn’t allowed in mexico

    if the romney’s retained their us citizenship, they had to pledge allegiance to mexico in order to own property

    in birtherstan, that’s a NO NO

  4. avatar
    The Magic M March 13, 2012 at 11:15 am #

    JPotter: I can hear it already …

    Actually, I think birthers will simply go “Look, Martelly presented his documents, why can’t Obama do the same?”.
    Then again, I don’t think Haitians would go “all the reporters present at the display of the documents are lying, his real passport doesn’t exist”.

  5. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett March 13, 2012 at 11:16 am #

    Off topic, but of interest.

    Has David Horowitz gone birther on us? He posed this one from Illuminati Pictures

    http://frontpagemag.com/2012/03/05/i-was-born-in-kenya/

    under the description TRUE OR FALSE? and with no comments underneath.

    He’s usually more sensible than this.

  6. avatar
    JPotter March 13, 2012 at 11:32 am #

    The Magic M: Actually, I think birthers will simply go “Look, Martelly presented his documents, why can’t Obama do the same?”.Then again, I don’t think Haitians would go “all the reporters present at the display of the documents are lying, his real passport doesn’t exist”.

    Yes, but all the while overlooking that this is a legitimate concern under Haitian law! And that Obama did produce the only relevant document to birther concerns …. 3.5 years ago!

    This morning, someone started a new thread at Amazon: “Why is Obama Being So Secretive?” … OP being a typical redition of Obama is hiding documents meme, along with a grocery list of every piece of paper ever printed. Anywhere.

    Like a stale echo.

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2012 at 12:47 pm #

    Well of course that video was a spoof from Obamasnippets.com, with the spoof disclaimer at the beginning removed. I left a comment on Horiwitz’s article, probably a much more polite one than he deserved.

    I did a couple of articles on obamasnippets, including the video Horowitz presents.

    See also:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/07/new-video-in-which-obama-admits-to-kenyan-birth/

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/06/yet-another-edited-tape-says-obama-was-born-in-africa/

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/05/obama-quits-in-2012-watch-the-video/

    J. Edward Tremlett: Has David Horowitz gone birther on us? He posed this one from Illuminati Pictures

  8. avatar
    RuhRoh March 13, 2012 at 12:52 pm #

    The vast majority of Birthers I’ve seen prefer to use the word “duel”. I have no idea what a “duel” citizen might be, but the concept is exceedingly popular among the Birtherstani.

  9. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 13, 2012 at 1:01 pm #

    Hi Guys

    @JPotter,
    It’s not about race. Playing the “race card” is a tool that the political Left added to their arsenal bag many years ago. Because 0bumm0 can claim minority status they’ve made great use of it over the last 4 years.

    Were there accusations of racism when white guys McCain, Bush, and Kerry faced the same problems as 0bumm0?

    @ Donna,
    I agree with ya. There are reasonable questions regarding both Romney & Santorum’s qualifications to be a candidate for the presidency. They both need public vetting through their political party.

  10. avatar
    ellen March 13, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

    Re: “evidence that he is not a dual citizen, something that would disqualify him for office.’

    Where does it say that dual citizen are barred from office, or barred from the presidency?

    I understand that at least two US presidents were actually dual citizens when they were president, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, who had been made citizens of France by the French National Assembly.

    In addition, there is some evidence that Woodrow Wilson was a dual citizen of the USA and Britain at birth due to the fact that his mother was a British citizen and only became a US citizen due to a law that made foreign women automatically US citizens when they married US men. But that is not the same thing as being nationalized, in which an oath is sworn, and there is no evidence that Wilson’s mother officially gave up her British citizenship. So, Woodrow Wilson would have been a dual citizen at birth.

  11. avatar
    JPotter March 13, 2012 at 1:24 pm #

    Rambo Ike: It’s not about race.

    Too easy. JPotter … wins.

    What’s the key combo for Babality on this console again?

    I decline claiming perfect victory, as it wasn’t word for word. This troll is still in training.

    Rambo Ike: can claim minority status

    Bonus points for “can claim minority status” … very PC of you! Had some sensitivity training?

    Rambo Ike: McCain, Bush, and Kerry

    Who birf’d Bush and Kerry? Anybody? Anybody? Bueller …?
    The straw in your McCain man is looking pretty stale. Freshen him up if you can.

  12. avatar
    ellen March 13, 2012 at 1:26 pm #

    Oops,. sorry, now I see the Haitian angle to this.

  13. avatar
    JPotter March 13, 2012 at 1:31 pm #

    OK, between Rambeaux and ellen, I claim Flawless Victory.

    ellen ….. it’s a story about Haiti.

  14. avatar
    Scientist March 13, 2012 at 1:32 pm #

    RuhRoh: I have no idea what a “duel” citizen might be

    Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr were duel citizens

    Rambo Ike: I agree with ya. There are reasonable questions regarding both Romney & Santorum’s qualifications to be a candidate for the presidency. They both need public vetting through their political party.

    They are getting one. It’s called the primaries. then they will be vetted in the general election. Obama went through the same vetting in 2008 and will go through a general election vetting in 2012. That’s called democracy. What you want is some kind of vetting by a council made up of Orly Taitz, Leo Donofrio and Mario Apuzzo. That is called a birther dictatorship.

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2012 at 1:37 pm #

    The smears against Bush and Kerry were, of course not racist since they were white. However, for McCain it was different.

    When McCain ran against George W. Bush for the Republican nomination, there was a push poll conducted in South Carolina. In the poll voters were asked: “Would you vote for John McCain if you knew he had fathered a mixed-race child.” Some credit this as the cause of the critical loss that won Bush the nomination. (McCain does not say this.) In fact, McCain adopted a mixed-race child.

    There is extensive documentation of race-based attacks on Barack Obama in Bill Press’s book titled, The Obama Hate Machine: The lies, Distortions, and Personal Attacks on the President — and Who is Behind Them.

    I will add that American politics has always been dirty, but I think the anti-Obama rhetoric over the past 3 years is unprecedented both in its virulence and in its irresponsibility. I mean George W. Bush signed the biggest federal welfare program in 40 years (Medicare Part D) and where were the claims that he was a socialist? Obama signs a bill requiring people to buy PRIVATE health coverage, and he’s a socialist.

    Rambo Ike: Were there accusations of racism when white guys McCain, Bush, and Kerry faced the same problems as 0bumm0?

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2012 at 1:40 pm #

    This blog is not geared towards those who skim.

    ellen: Oops,. sorry, now I see the Haitian angle to this.

  17. avatar
    justlw March 13, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

    RuhRoh: I have no idea what a “duel” citizen might be

    “Have at you!”

    “Gesundheit!”

  18. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 13, 2012 at 3:01 pm #

    @ Scientist

    I appreciate the humor of your “Vetting Council” – that was funny.

    On a more serious note you display something I’ve been looking at among the 0b0t sites. It’s true that our country, America, is included on the list with the other Western Democracies, buttttt that’s for purposes of alignment only. America IS NOT a Democracy. We have a republican form of government; a Constitutional Republic. Once the laws & rules contained in that manificient document are satified then a democratic process, such as our general election for the presidency, can take place.

    It’s hard to determine when people call our form of government a ‘democracy’ if its out of sheer lack of education or support for the wishes of the farLeft.

  19. avatar
    BillTheCat March 13, 2012 at 3:17 pm #

    Rambo Ike: It’s hard to determine when people call our form of government a democracy’ if its out of sheer lack of education or support for the wishes of the farLeft.

    Every day I wake up thankful that this country isn’t run by your ilk.

  20. avatar
    Scientist March 13, 2012 at 3:23 pm #

    Rambo Ike: It’s true that our country, America, is included on the list with the other Western Democracies, buttttt that’s for purposes of alignment only. America IS NOT a Democracy. We have a republican form of government; a Constitutional Republic

    Republic simply means no monarch. Some of the “Western Democracies” (France, Italy, Austria) are Constitutional Republics, while others-Britain, Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, Japan-have monarchs and are Constitutional Monarchies. On the other, there are plenty of Constitutional Republics that lack democracy-Iran, China, the former USSR, North Korea. You might prefer THOSE models (since you are a birther I suspect you do), but I prefer a Democratic Constitutional Republic, thank you very much, and I suspect most Americans do too.

  21. avatar
    JD Reed March 13, 2012 at 3:28 pm #

    Rambo, I always consider people who get bent out of shape when America is called a democracy to be extraordinarily anal retentiive. It is a democracy in the sense that the untimate authority is the adult population — those who care to participate and are not disqualified for some reason. It’s very common for people on the right, former President GW Bush, for instance, to refer to similarly-situated countries around the world as democracies.
    Also, you vaunt your education — did you learn good manners in yours? It says a lot about a person that they can’t resist calling a president they disapprove of a disrespectful name. This says a lot more about you than Mr. Obama, who is a quite intelligent man, so your name calling isn’t even accurate.

  22. avatar
    Judge Mental March 13, 2012 at 3:55 pm #

    I wonder what Rambo Ike thinks of the fact that umpteen trillions of dollars have been spent by the USA in alleged attempts to bring “democracy” to the Middle East.

    If “democracy” is so distateful why does he think that President Bush made the spreading of it such a cornerstone of his policy? He didn’t fanfare the spreading of “constitutional republics”, what he fanfared was quite specifically the spreading of “democracy”. He did it again and again and again so it was no accident. He said it for the whole world to hear because he was proud to be spreading “democracy”.

    I wonder if Rambo Ike was loudly protesting Bush’s folly and his own disgust with “democracy” at the time. Somehow I doubt it.

  23. avatar
    Rickey March 13, 2012 at 4:02 pm #

    Rambo Ike:

    It’s hard to determine when people call our form of government a democracy’ if its out of sheer lack of education or support for the wishes of the far Left.

    It’s too bad you never had a chance to educate Ronald Reagan about that.

    “Democracy is worth dying for, because it’s the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man.” – Ronald Reagan

  24. avatar
    JPotter March 13, 2012 at 4:16 pm #

    Rambo Ike: @ ScientistI appreciate the humor of your “Vetting Council” – that was funny.On a more serious note you display something I’ve been looking at among the 0b0t sites. It’s true that our country, America, is included on the list with the other Western Democracies, buttttt that’s for purposes of alignment only. America IS NOT a Democracy. We have a republican form of government; a Constitutional Republic. Once the laws & rules contained in that manificient document are satified then a democratic process, such as our general election for the presidency, can take place. It’s hard to determine when people call our form of government a democracy’ if its out of sheer lack of education or support for the wishes of the farLeft.

    Who are you looking to disenfranchise today, Rambo? All but white males 21 and older, who can show title to 200 worth of property?

    That magnificent document is satisfied everyday, and everyday, I am satisfied with it.

    I look forward to your literalisms.

  25. avatar
    JD Reed March 13, 2012 at 4:44 pm #

    Yes, the US us a republic but replublic doesn’t fully differentiate our form of government. For instance, it could have been up so that even today, only white males of northwest Euriopean descent who are descended from Mayflorwer passengers and who have a net worth of at least $500,000 in real property, cash and securities are eligible to vote. That would be a republic, but it sure wouldn’t be a democracy.

  26. avatar
    donna March 13, 2012 at 4:56 pm #

    what IS IT with these people?

    these are the SAME people who are anti-science and who think it’s SMALL GOVERNMENT to support STATE SPONSORED RAPE and ok to peek in bedroom windows

    the SAME people in alabama and mississippi, who think obama is muslim, also support a literacy requirement to vote

    60% in alabama and 66% in mississippi don’t believe in evolution

    EVEN THE POPE is MORE PROGRESSIVE

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2012 at 4:59 pm #

    You are creating a false controversy. While a classic definition of democracy means a direct participation of the citizens in decision making, no one uses it that way any more. A current definition is:

    A system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

    Even the Constitution (except that one bit) can be overridden by a political process. Now that you’ve been informed, I hope your life will go better for you and you won’t waste any more time beating a broken drum.

    Rambo Ike: On a more serious note you display something I’ve been looking at among the 0b0t sites. It’s true that our country, America, is included on the list with the other Western Democracies, buttttt that’s for purposes of alignment only. America IS NOT a Democracy.

  28. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2012 at 5:03 pm #

    POP QUIZ: What part of the Constitution cannot be amended?

    Dr. Conspiracy: Even the Constitution (except that one bit) can be overridden by a political process.

  29. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 13, 2012 at 6:06 pm #

    Wow !!!!

    I go over to the courts and play a quick set of tennis with my neighbor, and what do I see when I come back & check the responses to my post; a whole bunch of 0b0ts going rabid and foaming at the mouth over the term ‘democracy’.

    Yes, the term is loosely used to describe what America is seen as a part of, but it IS NOT our proper form of government. You can count on anyone having a one on one conversation with the Gipper that he would of explained it to you.

    I was replying to Scientist’s misguided inference that vetting is done during the primaries or general elections. He gave no mention of the important role that our Constitution plays in determining who can and cannot be a candidate.

    It’s not a false controversy to point out that our Constitution sets the standards for which the vote can ‘then’ be legal under our form of government.

    @ Donna
    I believe evolution is real. I’ve witnessed it in many aspects of our American society just in my short time on planet earth.

  30. avatar
    JPotter March 13, 2012 at 6:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: POP QUIZ: What part of the Constitution cannot be amended?

    State’s representation in the Senate cannot be amended.

  31. avatar
    Sef March 13, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

    JPotter: State’s representation in the Senate cannot be amended.

    Without its consent.

  32. avatar
    JPotter March 13, 2012 at 6:24 pm #

    Sef: Without its consent.

    I consent to Okieland Senatorial suffrage being reduced to 0.

  33. avatar
    JPotter March 13, 2012 at 6:25 pm #

    …. or being gifted temporarily to a state which might make better use of it.

    Return of Senators subject to biennial psychiatric evaluations.

  34. avatar
    Scientist March 13, 2012 at 6:27 pm #

    Rambo Ike: Yes, the term is loosely used to describe what America is seen as a part of, but it IS NOT our proper form of government. You can count on anyone having a one on one conversation with the Gipper that he would of explained it to you.

    As a matter of fact, the Constitution only guarantees “a republican form of government” to the states. It is silent about the federal government. But the definition of a republic is ” a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.” Democracy is defiined as ” a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents” Those sound awfully similar.

    In fact, many US states practice something close to pure democracy, through the initiative process (California being the best example). But anyway, you did not reply to the fact that Iran, North Korea, Syria, Zimbabwe and a whole host of bad places from the past (the USSR, Fascist Italy and Spain, Saddam’s Iraq) are or were all republics. So don’t try to con us that republics without democracy are good models.

    Rambo Ike: I was replying to Scientist’s misguided inference that vetting is done during the primaries or general elections. He gave no mention of the important role that our Constitution plays in determining who can and cannot be a candidate.

    The Constitution sets standards, but who judges whether those standards are met? I can see 3 bodies: the electorate, their representatives (Congress) and the courts. The problem you have is that all 3 of those consider Obama to be the legitimate President. They all also consider Romney and Santorum eligible should they win the election. That, my friend is the problem you have. None of the bodies that could possibly have any say in the matter agree with you. Unless you have the candidates vetted by Taitz, Donofrio and Apuzzo (the 3 Stooges), you are out of luck.

  35. avatar
    Thrifty March 13, 2012 at 6:29 pm #

    YOU BROUGHT IT UP.

    Rambo Ike: I go over to the courts and play a quick set of tennis with my neighbor, and what do I see when I come back & check the responses to my post; a whole bunch of 0b0ts going rabid and foaming at the mouth over the term democracy’.

  36. avatar
    Scientist March 13, 2012 at 6:33 pm #

    Sef: Without its consent.

    Making West Virginia out of part of Virginia without Virginia’s consent violated the Constitution. Big deal…

  37. avatar
    Rickey March 13, 2012 at 6:34 pm #

    Rambo Ike:

    Yes, the term is loosely used to describe what America is seen as a part of, but it IS NOT our proper form of government.

    Your phrase “Constitutional Republic” is meaningless because it does not describe how the general populace participates in choosing the country’s leaders. Nazi Germany was a constitutional republic – the Weimar Constitution remained in effect and the Reichstag continued to exist, but no free elections were held after 1933. It was technically both constitutional and republican, but there was nothing democratic about it.

    The better phrase to describe the U.S. government is Democratic Republic.

  38. avatar
    Scientist March 13, 2012 at 6:39 pm #

    Rickey: Nazi Germany was a constitutional republic – the Weimar Constitution remained in effect and the Reichstag continued to exist, but no free elections were held after 1933. It was technically both constitutional and republican, but there was nothing democratic about it.

    You’re assuming that Rambo Ike has a problem with that…..

  39. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2012 at 7:00 pm #

    I presume that you have a lot of experience getting a similar reaction elsewhere.

    It’s a good trolling line. However, “foaming at the mouth” lacks sufficient veracity to get very much of a follow-on response.

    Now read my lips: this blog is about Obama Conspiracy Theories, not the form of the US Government. Persistent off-topic comments will get you banned.

    Rambo Ike: I go over to the courts and play a quick set of tennis with my neighbor, and what do I see when I come back & check the responses to my post; a whole bunch of 0b0ts going rabid and foaming at the mouth over the term democracy’.

  40. avatar
    JPotter March 13, 2012 at 7:17 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I presume that you have a lot of experience getting a similar reaction elsewhere.

    I read it as “Oh! For me? Oh, you shouldn’t have!”

    My only problem with the post (other than insincerity) was in deciding whether it was in the spirit of Snagglepuss, or Droopy Dogg. “Heavens to Murgatroid! …. you shouldn’t have.”

  41. avatar
    JPotter March 13, 2012 at 7:19 pm #

    Scientist: Making West Virginia out of part of Virginia without Virginia’s consent violated the Constitution. Big deal…

    From a Northern perspective, that was self-determination. And Virginia got to keep its two Senators tho it took some convincing to get them to claim them again. 😉

  42. avatar
    Paper March 13, 2012 at 8:26 pm #

    I for one appreciate the distinction between republic and democracy. As a boy I used to feel patronized by seeing films about America where the film would ask, rhetorically, can you think of a better system? Then the film proceeded as if of course you couldn’t. I would be there thinking hello! How about a direct democracy! Now, however, even though I do still feel fond of direct democracy, I do appreciate the republican aspect of our government.

    The main point is who exercises power. In our case, power is exercised primarily by the republican government, which is populated democratically. It also is up to each branch of government to hold the other two in check. The constitution was written not to merely preserve its standards, but to create a framework where power itself is used to check power, and shape power.

    Thus, we find it is up to Congress to determine a president’s final eligibility. We elect a president, Congress has the final say. Then look, presidents appoint Supreme Court justices, and Congress has the final say. Congress also has final say over its own membership. I see a theme. In political matters, it is the most democratic body that has the final say, which is much more suggestive of the term “democratic republic” than it is of “constitutional republic,” where perhaps it would be the judiciary hat had final say over political matters.

  43. avatar
    Paper March 13, 2012 at 9:29 pm #

    Thus, Scientist is correct, the vetting process is the ultimate arbiter of who is a native born citizen. We see a very clear example with war powers, where Congress has basically let its power sit idle. Without the separate bodies exercising power, the Constitution is nothing.

    President Obama clearly is qualified to be president. He was born here. So he himself is not a good test of where the ultimate decision lies. No court is ever going to challenge his status. Congress already gave him their okay. He won the popular and electoral votes. All the power centers are aligned on this issue.

    So what is a birther to do? Not much really.

    Essentially, birthers would love to create a constitutional crisis. That would be their only chance at anything, but you can’t create a crisis out of pablum. That’s the real problem.

    But what would the imaginary crisis be? The Supreme Court cannot kick a president out of office. Only Congress can do that. So they have to try with new elections, any election, but they are failing. They fail on the merits, but they also fail to get the courts themselves to exert power (basically, courts such as the Georgia Appellate court have said, not our business).

    The courts themselves seem to think we are primarily a democratic republic. So even redefining our form of government is not working. The President is still president! I understand it is maddening. But the fault is not in the stars, not in the government, not in the New World Order. The fault is your own, in trying to make big realities into small fantasies, rather than raising yourself up to meet reality.

    In the simplest of terms, that means exactly what Scientist says: if you have a problem with the President, vote for someone else. Get on with your life.

  44. avatar
    keith March 13, 2012 at 10:23 pm #

    Scientist: But anyway, you did not reply to the fact that Iran, North Korea, Syria, Zimbabwe and a whole host of bad places from the past (the USSR, Fascist Italy and Spain, Saddam’s Iraq) are or were all republics.

    Iran, at least, is a Democratic Theocracy; republic is not the only alternative to a monarchy.

  45. avatar
    keith March 13, 2012 at 10:25 pm #

    Scientist: Making West Virginia out of part of Virginia without Virginia’s consent violated the Constitution.Big deal…

    Yeah. I wonder, is there a ‘reintegration’ movement in either WV or VA?

  46. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 13, 2012 at 11:13 pm #

    Paper: “Essentially, birthers would love to create a constitutional crisis. That would be their only chance at anything, but you can’t create a crisis out of pablum. That’s the real problem.”

    There’s another problem that overwhelmingly resides with the 0b0ts.

    Like them, they expect everyone else to ride along with them on some “giant leap of faith”, that 0bumm0 and his operatives [key ones being in Hawaii] are telling the truth.

    A notorized piece of paper that his operatives are claiming to be a true copy of a Birth Certificate alleged to be on file at the HDOH is beyond having to be verified with tangible proof.

    That no attention should be paid to the fact that no hospital has formally stated or placed a marker on their grounds proclaiming they are 0bumm0 birth hospital, giving him ‘Son of Hawaian Soil’ status.

  47. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 13, 2012 at 11:15 pm #

    I’m guessing when RamBummerIke played tennis with his neighbor, they both imagined a ball, but only one imagined a net.

  48. avatar
    Thrifty March 13, 2012 at 11:34 pm #

    So now you need an official public declaration by a hospital to verify your birthplace? Seems awfully cumbersome, given the birthrate in this country. I guess I’m screwed, because the hospital I was born at doesn’t know me from Adam. All I have is this birth certificate.

    And God help those poor people who weren’t born in hospitals…

    Rambo Ike: That no attention should be paid to the fact that no hospital has formally stated or placed a marker on their grounds proclaiming they are 0bumm0 birth hospital, giving him Son of Hawaian Soil’ status.

  49. avatar
    Paper March 14, 2012 at 12:14 am #

    I just saw a comment on some random site somewhere, where the guy lamented that every court was throwing all this stuff out. His solution? A mandatory people’s vote to overrule the courts!

    Gotta love’em.

  50. avatar
    justlw March 14, 2012 at 12:24 am #

    Thrifty: And God help those poor people who weren’t born in hospitals…

    Like The Gipper — and every other president before Carter.

    In fact, ol’ Ronnie didn’t even have a birth certificate until he was in his 30s.

    Ronald Reagan’s qualification for the Presidency is based on a couple of people claiming they knew he was born somewhere, 30+ years after the fact. How’s that work for you, Rambo Ike?

  51. avatar
    Paper March 14, 2012 at 12:28 am #

    In our imaginary *constitutional* republic, does the constitution still mean anything? I’m thinking of the part that requires us to give full faith and credit to Hawaii’s documents. I mean, if you want to talk about where faith is mentioned in the constitution.

    While you’re at it, look up the word “prima facie.” It means that as a country we say that document, the birth certificate, is the proof. Again, I suggest you reread the constitution in this regard.

    Hawaii says it is so? It is so. That’s the way it works. *You* are the one who needs to prove something if you want to say Hawaii is part of some big fraud. Otherwise, the country moves on, leaving you behind. No one needs you to “ride along” in this matter. You can go nowhere all you want.

    Rambo Ike:
    Like them, they expect everyone else to ride along with them on some “giant leap of faith”, that 0bumm0 and his operatives [key ones being in Hawaii] are telling the truth.

    A notorized piece of paper that his operatives are claiming to be a true copy of a Birth Certificate alleged to be on file at the HDOH is beyond having to be verified with tangible proof.

  52. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 14, 2012 at 12:28 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: “The smears against Bush and Kerry were, of course not racist since they were white. However, for McCain it was different.”

    I think you misinterpreted what my intent was with: “Were there accusations of racism when white guys McCain, Bush, and Kerry faced the same problems as 0bumm0?”

    All 4 of them had their records challenged by the opposing party, but only in one case did their own party accuse the opposition party of racism over it. [might be good for some future political trivia]

    You’re right when you say politics is dirty. I can cite dozens of cases throughout American history going back to the Hamilton-Burr Duel. Neither one of the 2 major political parties has a lock on it.

    I always get a chuckle out of it when I see an 0b0t using Bill Press to help their position on any issue, since Press writes for WND, and we know there has been no letup in the 0b0ts hatred for that independent news service.

    I get this distinct feeling that the 0b0ts did a Rip VanWinkle through Bush’s 8 years in the Whitehouse. So far what 0bumm0’s been through would be considered grade school when compared to what Bush endured from the political Left. I can provide evidence to back it up.

    I did support Bush during his 1st term mainly because the DemoRATs did a 180 turn from 1998 to 2003 over Saddam and all their deceit that came with it. In Bush’s 2nd term it became obvious he was beholden to some ‘special interests’. I never called Bush a socialist, but labeled him during his 2nd term “El Presidente Jorge BOOsh”.

  53. avatar
    Rambo Ike March 14, 2012 at 12:58 am #

    @ Thrifty

    Of course you fail to mention that you, me, and those poor people aren’t running for the 2 highest political offices in America, and also considered the most powerful positions in the world.

    Unless you were in the military and had to get one, you have no idea what all has to be provided to get a security clearance.

  54. avatar
    Paper March 14, 2012 at 1:20 am #

    Of course you fail to mention no other president has had to prove their birth in such a way.

    Rambo Ike:
    @ Thrifty

    Of course you fail to mention that you, me, and those poor people aren’t running for the 2 highest political offices in America, and also considered the most powerful positions in the world.

  55. avatar
    justlw March 14, 2012 at 1:37 am #

    Rambo Ike: Unless you were in the military and had to get one, you have no idea what all has to be provided to get a security clearance.

    You appear to be under the impression that only people in the military get security clearances.

  56. avatar
    NBC March 14, 2012 at 1:52 am #

    Rambo Ike: I did support Bush during his 1st term mainly because the DemoRATs did a 180 turn from 1998 to 2003 over Saddam and all their deceit that came with it.

    Sad that we were lied into a war… If only the Democrats had been more forceful in opposing the powers that do not care about the well being of our nation or its people. It has become painfully obvious that Republicans do not care about our citizens, and their only goal is to restrict access to voting, manipulate people and destroy our middle class. Sad really how deep they have fallen. If only our citizens had not been so ignorant and easily manipulated by the fear and hatred.

    Bush should have been tried for crimes against humanity for his disregard for the facts and his involvement in the death of 5000 US and foreign troops and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi’s

  57. avatar
    NBC March 14, 2012 at 1:54 am #

    Rambo Ike: Like them, they expect everyone else to ride along with them on some “giant leap of faith”, that 0bumm0 and his operatives [key ones being in Hawaii] are telling the truth.

    It’s not a leap of faith, it is a simple fact. Claiming that there are somehow ‘operatives in Hawaii’ is just ridiculous. Both a Republican and Democratic governor have now confirmed what we already knew…

    Why do you hate our country so much that you are willing to invent stories and undermine the office of the Presidency?

  58. avatar
    NBC March 14, 2012 at 1:55 am #

    Rambo Ike: Unless you were in the military and had to get one, you have no idea what all has to be provided to get a security clearance.

    Well, we let Reagan close to the nuclear suitcase.. What fools we were… But such is life…

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2012 at 3:00 am #

    It made no sense to me, so I guessed.

    I must say I was surprised when you told me Bill Press writes for WND. I guess WND publishes his stuff as a liberal bogey man.

    For the record, my position is that there are racially-based attacks against Obama and there are attacks for other reasons. For a good survey of my writing on race-based attacks on Obama, see:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/01/apuzzo-doc-stereotyping-birthers-as-racists/

    But George Bush is off topic for this web site and your comment has nothing whatever to do with the current topic. So I have put you in moderation to insure that you don’t hijack the threads any more.

    The way that works is that if you post something off topic for the site, I delete it. If you post something off-topic for the article I move it or delete it depending on how I feel at the moment (or based on a coin toss if I feel ambivalent). If you post something on topic for the article, it gets approved usually. See the site editorial policy which sometimes gets followed:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/visitor-guide/editorial-policy/

    Rambo Ike: I think you misinterpreted what my intent was with: “Were there accusations of racism when white guys McCain, Bush, and Kerry faced the same problems as 0bumm0?”

  60. avatar
    dunstvangeet March 14, 2012 at 3:02 am #

    Thrifty:
    So now you need an official public declaration by a hospital to verify your birthplace?Seems awfully cumbersome, given the birthrate in this country.I guess I’m screwed, because the hospital I was born at doesn’t know me from Adam.All I have is this birth certificate.

    You think you’re screwed? The Hospital I was born at is now the U.S. Headquarters for Adidas! Does this mean that I have to get Adidas to certify that I was born in this country?

  61. avatar
    dunstvangeet March 14, 2012 at 3:03 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I must say I was surprised when you told me Bill Press write for WND. I guess WND keeps him around as a liberal bogey man.

    Bill Press doesn’t write for WND. He writes Syndicated colums that WND apparently buys and publishes on their site. Bill Press doesn’t write for WND.

  62. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2012 at 3:09 am #

    Actually, the requirements, procedures and even the forms are all on the Internet. Been there, read that.

    Rambo Ike: Unless you were in the military and had to get one, you have no idea what all has to be provided to get a security clearance.

  63. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2012 at 3:14 am #

    I see that that stuff comes through Tribune Media Services, but you’d never know that from looking at the WND web site.

    dunstvangeet: Bill Press doesn’t write for WND. He writes Syndicated colums that WND apparently buys and publishes on their site. Bill Press doesn’t write for WND.

  64. avatar
    G March 14, 2012 at 3:47 am #

    Oh Rambo Ike, you continue to only demonstrate your emotional immaturity for all to see. For one thing, it is never a justification for poor behavior to simply point out that others have demonstrated poor behavior as well. If someone robs your house, that does not give you the right to go and rob someone yourself. Derangement Syndrome, whether ODS (Obama), BDS (Bush) or otherwise is simply nothing more than a poor reflection of the idiot sputtering it. I’m not surprised that you suffered from both ODS & BDS. Irrational emotional derangement seems to be your specialty.

    I had no sympathy for the BDS idiots who spewed their irrational tantrums over endless unrelated news articles during those years. Just as I have no sympathy for you ODS types either. When the arguments stray away from fact-based causality and veer into nothing but seething childish tantrums, there is simply no excuse for any sane adult to behave that way.

    But most of the BDS nonsense was constrained to random idiots online and wackaloon elements of legitimate protest movements. There wasn’t the same level of prominent party members and officials openly playing into such nuttery by any stretch of the imagination, so spare us yet another lopsided and shallow attempt at false equivocation here.

    There simply is no comparable benchmark to the utter gutter smear delusional madness of the Birther movement in the modern political landscape. Nor is there any apples to apples equivalence between this President’s eligibility and identity as an American who loves his country to anything that the BDS sufferers through at Bush.

    Finally, pointing to examples of other random idiots to justify your own idiotic behavior is a meaningless strawman argument for this forum. Unless you have specific and concrete examples of behavior similar to your to charge against specific individuals here, then you are just throwing yet another childish tantrum and not making any valid argument, whatsoever at all.

    Rambo Ike: I get this distinct feeling that the 0b0ts did a Rip VanWinkle through Bush’s 8 years in the Whitehouse. So far what 0bumm0′s been through would be considered grade school when compared to what Bush endured from the political Left. I can provide evidence to back it up.
    I did support Bush during his 1st term mainly because the DemoRATs did a 180 turn from 1998 to 2003 over Saddam and all their deceit that came with it. In Bush’s 2nd term it became obvious he was beholden to some special interests’. I never called Bush a socialist, but labeled him during his 2nd term “El Presidente Jorge BOOsh”.

  65. avatar
    The Magic M March 14, 2012 at 6:15 am #

    Rambo Ike: That no attention should be paid to the fact that no hospital has formally stated or placed a marker on their grounds proclaiming they are 0bumm0 birth hospital, giving him Son of Hawaian Soil’ status.

    Since when does the Constitution require a President to have your made-up “Son of Hawaian Soil status”, or to have his hospital display some marker, or to have even been born in a hospital at all?

    According to you, if Romney wins the November elections and his birth hospital refuses to put up a marker commemorating “the President’s birthplace” (maybe because the hospital director is a die-hard Obama supporter), that constitutes a fact that requires “attention” (I mean, apart from the obvious “what a petty partisan issue”)? Would such a fact mean Romney was probably not born where his BC says he was born?

  66. avatar
    Scientist March 14, 2012 at 7:31 am #

    I’m a practical guy, so I’m trying to figure out how you would implement what Rambo Ike wants. He want some BODY that will find a pretext to declare Barack Obama ineligible. What BODY? He beats around the bush (and the Bush) a lot because the simple truth is that every BODY has found Obama to be eligible. The voters did and the Congress did without objection. Those courts that have been forced to rule on the matter have ruled he is; those courts that haven’t had to rule have certainly not said otherwise. Electoral commissions, same story. So which BODY does Ike want deciding who should be President?

    He mentions security clearances-those are done by the FBI, who are police. Having the police pick the President would be a Police State. He mentions the Military. Having the Military pick the President would be a military dictatorship. And Ike would probably be disappointed in them anyway, since there is no evidence that either BODY considers Obama ineligible.

    So we are left with the only BODY that would give Ike the verdict he seeks-the 3 Stooges (Taitz, Donofrio and Apuzzo). And rule by Stooges would be a Stoogocracy.

  67. avatar
    Northland10 March 14, 2012 at 7:47 am #

    If you want people to stop using the “race card” on things you say, stop saying things like this.

    Rambo Ike: I never called Bush a socialist, but labeled him during his 2nd term “El Presidente Jorge BOOsh”.

  68. avatar
    Keith March 14, 2012 at 8:25 am #

    Rambo Ike: A notorized piece of paper that his operatives are claiming to be a true copy of a Birth Certificate alleged to be on file at the HDOH is beyond having to be verified with tangible proof.

    It isn’t ‘notarized’. It is CERTIFIED by the legally responsible authority.

    Dude. Just give it up, for cryin’ out loud.

  69. avatar
    Keith March 14, 2012 at 8:28 am #

    Thrifty: And God help those poor people who weren’t born in hospitals…

    You mean like the first 38 Presidents of the United States?

  70. avatar
    Northland10 March 14, 2012 at 8:43 am #

    Been there, read that, and have been interviewed regarding former students increasing their clearance.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Actually, the requirements, procedures and even the forms are all on the Internet. Been there, read that.

  71. avatar
    JD Reed March 14, 2012 at 10:02 am #

    Rambo, you said you could supply evidence that Bush endured far worse from his idelogical opposites than Obama has from his. Go ahead, I’m listening.

  72. avatar
    Paper March 14, 2012 at 10:05 am #

    Just to note, in the circles I know, the Birthers are also truthers who said Bush was behind 9/11. The underlying conspiracy is the New World Order, Rockefeller and friends. The one ring that binds them all, don’t ya know. Chemtrails, Birthers, all of it connected. That’s what I’m forced to listen to.

  73. avatar
    James M March 14, 2012 at 10:13 am #

    JD Reed: it could have been up so that even today, only white males of northwest Euriopean descent who are descended from Mayflorwer passengers and who have a net worth of at least $500,000

    Doesn’t President Obama technically meet all those requirements?

  74. avatar
    Paper March 14, 2012 at 10:13 am #

    Exactly.

    Scientist:
    .He want some BODY that will find a pretext to declare Barack Obama ineligible.What BODY?He beats around the bush (and the Bush) a lot because the simple truth is that every BODY has found Obama to be eligible.

  75. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2012 at 11:49 am #

    Please review Editorial Policy item 13:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/visitor-guide/editorial-policy/

    and the Commenting section in the Visitor Guide

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/visitor-guide/

    G: Oh Rambo Ike, you continue to only demonstrate your emotional immaturity for all to see.

  76. avatar
    Keith March 14, 2012 at 6:31 pm #

    Paper:
    Just to note, in the circles I know, the Birthers are also truthers who said Bush was behind 9/11.The underlying conspiracy is the New World Order, Rockefeller and friends.The one ring that binds them all, don’t ya know.Chemtrails, Birthers, all of it connected.That’s what I’m forced to listen to.

    When it all gets too silly, I just stop visiting ATS for a while.

  77. avatar
    G March 14, 2012 at 10:53 pm #

    Thanks for the reminder. It can be very difficult to call out clearly bad behavior without it coming across as a personal attack. Sometimes there is a very thin line between the problems with the message and the messenger itself.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Please review Editorial Policy item 13:http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/visitor-guide/editorial-policy/and the Commenting section in the Visitor Guidehttp://www.obamaconspiracy.org/visitor-guide/

  78. avatar
    Thrifty March 16, 2012 at 11:48 am #

    Uh oh. Spambots.

  79. avatar
    Scientist March 16, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    Thrifty: Uh oh. Spambots.

    They’re more polite than the birthers, no more devoid of thought and the odds that their sites offer something useful are marginally higher. And they don’t clog the courts wiith junk lawsuits.

  80. avatar
    Paper March 16, 2012 at 3:10 pm #

    ATS? Checking…checking…checking the webs…I guess you may mean Above Top Secret, a conspiracy site? If only it were that easy. I don’t even know about that site. My ATS is called family, a.k.a., Aggressive Terrestrial Siblings. Don’t get me started on my extraterrestrial siblings. A large family, what can I say.