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You’re crazy and I’m not

I almost used a Stephen Colbert-style title for the story: I’m sane, and so can you!

I cannot help but observe with some bemusement the claims and counter claims that birthers and their detractors level at each other. As an exercise, I listed some of those claims, attempting to arrange them as mirror images of each other:

Birthers say Anti-birthers say
Obots are evil Birthers are crazy
Obots are trying to cover up the truth about the 2008 election Birthers are in denial about the 2008 election
Obots won’t admit the truth Birthers are deluded
Obots are unwilling to face facts Birthers are immune to facts
Obots suffer from confirmation bias Birthers suffer from confirmation bias
Obots are racially motivated Birthers are racially motivated
Obots are socialists Birthers are racists
Birthers exhibit the Dunning-Kruger effect
Birthers are crackpots
Obots don’t understand the law Birthers don’t understand the law
Obots are liars Birthers are liars
Obots are afraid of what will happen once the truth gets out Birthers are afraid of events they can’t control
Obots are slick propagandists Birthers are fooled by slick propagandists
Official sources of information are hopelessly corrupt and unreliable Birthers ignore consensus information from official sources
If the birthers are not heeded, apocalyptic chaos and doom will result Birthers pose a threat to society because of their anti-intellectual stance

Having completed my little exercise I realize that the claims are not mirror images of each other; there is a fundamental difference between birthers and anti-birthers. Anti-birthers believe the birthers are crazy (not clinically insane, but thinking irrationally); birthers on the other hand do not believe that anti-birthers are crazy but that they know the truth and are covering it up.

This morning, I went back to a March 2009 article of mine: Is Obama Citizenship Denial a delusion? That article drew a number of comments from several birthers (or a single birther using multiple sock puppets) including this one:

Got a question for the “Doc”: do you now or have you ever been in the employ of the US gov’t? Who pays for this website?

Over the years, a number of birthers have raised this theme, being unable to believe that someone would put a lot of effort into opposing them unless they were paid to do it. What’s interesting is that the anti-birthers believe that most birthers are “for real” but the birthers think their opponents don’t really believe what they say. It is this lack of comprehension of legitimate disagreement that is, in my mind, a solid mark against the rationality of the birthers.

I’ll repeat what I said in 2009, that birthers are not clinically delusional because they operate within a subculture where their beliefs are considered normal; however, they sure act crazy.

71 Responses to You’re crazy and I’m not

  1. avatar
    JPotter April 27, 2012 at 1:01 pm #

    “Obots are slick propagandists … Birthers are fooled by slick propagandists”

    If these two memes were literally, as worded here, the whole hubbub would cancel itself out! Darn birthers and their biased gullibility…picking and choosing who they wish to be fooled by.

  2. avatar
    Paul Pieniezny April 27, 2012 at 1:32 pm #

    You can also do this in three persons:

    I am a sceptic, YOU are delusional. THEY are insane.

    I am an Obot, YOU are a flat-earther. THEY are birthers.

    I am Tepper, YOU are Berg. SHE is Orly Taitz.

  3. avatar
    bob j April 27, 2012 at 1:42 pm #

    My confusion about the birther belief system is simple. Why do birthers insist that they only need one court victory to claim a total victory? Each birther loss is appealed and explained. Are there really people who think that one judge, in one case, can bring down the entire U.S government; with no chance of appeal?

    That is the thinking that truly baffles me.

  4. avatar
    JD Reed April 27, 2012 at 1:47 pm #

    Me, too, Bob. Great pithy analysis.

  5. avatar
    Majority Will April 27, 2012 at 1:49 pm #

    bob j:
    My confusion about the birther belief system is simple. Why do birthers insist that they only need one court victory to claim a total victory? Each birther loss is appealed and explained. Are there really people who think that one judge, in one case, can bring down the entire U.S government; with no chance of appeal?

    That is the thinking that truly baffles me.

    The belief that one person can bring down the entire U.S government with no chance of appeal is an implied endorsement for fascism and a dictatorship.

  6. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 27, 2012 at 1:51 pm #

    I wrote it in the reverse order to how it reads, so I didn’t catch the irony.

    JPotter: “Obots are slick propagandists … Birthers are fooled by slick propagandists”

  7. avatar
    Greenfinches April 27, 2012 at 2:27 pm #

    who can forget the superb irregular verbs from ‘Yes, Minister’ on UK tv in the 1980s (which Margaret Thatcher supposedly loved), such as

    I have an independent mind
    YOU are an eccentric
    HE is a raving lunatic

  8. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 27, 2012 at 4:42 pm #

    bob j:
    Are there really people who think that one judge, in one case, can bring down the entire U.S government; with no chance of appeal?

    That is the thinking that truly baffles me.

    Is that really the only thing about Birfer thinking you find baffling?

    Come on now.

  9. avatar
    The Magic M April 27, 2012 at 5:11 pm #

    > What’s interesting is that the anti-birthers believe that most birthers are “for real” but the birthers think their opponents don’t really believe what they say.

    The latter is a common symptom of crankism.
    If birthers admitted we Obots really believed what we say, they would implicitly admit that our side has enough arguments to be even remotely credible. And that is something that cranks can never do. They have to remain so firm in their beliefs that even the slightest admission that them being correct isn’t totally obvious to anyone must be denied at all costs.

    The second motive for this radical stance is that they live in a black-and-white world where everyone disagreeing isn’t simply wrong but “the enemy”. And of course “the enemy”, being evil, cannot possibly think he’s right, he must “know the truth” but deliberately represent the opposite.
    (There are some nice fantasy stories that depict the devil as “just the other side of the coin” who doesn’t just go about “I’m evil and I like it” but in fact firmly believes he’s right and God’s wrong.
    There’s also a nice fantasy novel – the name escapes me right now – that basically is “Lord of the Rings Inverted”, told from the viewpoint of the “evil” overlord who considers himself just a misunderstood outcast.)

    Sane people, on the other hand, don’t usually assume everybody else is *deliberately* dumb/evil but acknowledge that often even obviously dumb ideas have enough merit to appeal to others.
    (Though I have probably met only about 2 or 3 birthers whom I would actually classify as “honest but mislead”, as opposed to “bigoted racist fools willing to believe anything”. But still there’s only a selected few I would label “deliberate liars who actually don’t believe in anything birther”.)

  10. avatar
    misha April 27, 2012 at 5:12 pm #

    Birthers are the equivalent of flat-earthers, truthers, and all of the assorted beliefs that fall into the realm of old wives tales and superstition. In science and related subjects, they are still in the Dark Ages.

    They latch onto crackpot ideas like ‘both parents have to be US citizens,’ and then split born on US soil into natural born and native born. Amazingly, no one ever heard about that until 2008.

    They don’t demand the same thing of Willard Mitt Romney, whose father was born in Mexico. They scream Obama’s father was a bigamist, while ignoring the Romney family history.

    I’ll repeat: I worked for an optical store owner, in Montgomery County, Maryland – one of the 2 wealthiest counties in the States. He lived 5 minutes from me, and I went to his house to learn their computer system. I also learned he is a Mormon, and had two wives and a house full of children, that resembled a Monty Python sketch.

    Some are like Orly Taitz, who is both unbalanced and determined to destroy Obama, because she feels he is not good for Israel. Others are just unbalanced, or determined to wreck the careers of anyone opposed to the Settlers. What Settlers have called me could fill a thesaurus. I have actually been called a quisling, by a Christian Zionist.

    But that’s another thread.

  11. avatar
    JPotter April 27, 2012 at 5:12 pm #

    bob j: Are there really people who think that one judge, in one case, can bring down the entire U.S government; with no chance of appeal?

    I think that they see themselves as freedom fighters … they are the lucky ones, have escaped the Matrix. They have been awakened, have been initiated, have seen the Platonic light … they have teh secret knowledge.

    The rest of us remain enslaved to The Machine … a vast hoax/conspiracy that has perverted the vision and intent of The Founders, has corrupted all levels of American government, and turned us all into duped, dependent zombies via gub’mint entitlements and misinformation … miseducation dispensed in public schools, via public radio and television, and though public arts initiatives.

    If these valiant crusaders can infect—er, ‘awaken’ one gatekeeper entity—just one!—the the whole operation will pop and deflate like an immense balloon. The empire will have been revealed to have no clothes, to have been full of nothing but hot air the whole time.

    With the obscuring object out of the way, the light of True Wisdom will once again trickle down from The Divine unto his Chosen People, the Real / True Americans. Scales will fall from their eyes, they will embrace the birthers as their saviors, and all the Land will rejoice happily ever after.

    Well, just as soon as all the Obots are rounded up and burned at the stake.

    (Good luck to anyone else judged to be other a Real / True American)

  12. avatar
    The Magic M April 27, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

    The Magic M: There’s also a nice fantasy novel – the name escapes me right now

    Found it – “Banewreaker”/”Godslayer” by Jacqueline Carey (I’m a fan since the Kushiel trilogy).

  13. avatar
    The Magic M April 27, 2012 at 5:17 pm #

    JPotter: If these valiant crusaders can infect—er, awaken’ one gatekeeper entity—just one!—the the whole operation will pop and deflate like an immense balloon.

    That probably comes from reading too many spy novels – or watching movies like “Soylent Green”.

  14. avatar
    Bob April 27, 2012 at 5:22 pm #

    I attribute a lot of Birtherism to GOPers who are frustrated with the Republican Party (hardly a novel theory). Birther articles on WND seem to garner way more comments than other political articles — the readers are really pretty disengaged from politics — they’re not really activists. They’re hoping for a magic reset button. Whereas on Freerepublic, Birther articles pop up often but readers usually don’t respond too much or even dismiss it as “Birther blather” or “conspiracy claptrap.”

    That doesn’t really explain the whole Obama-isn’t-eligible line of attack though as it’s about as stupid as it comes. One sheet of paper in a state’s archives instantly settled it.

    The choice of Mitt Romney will only exacerbate the Birther’s frustration.

  15. avatar
    J. Potter April 27, 2012 at 7:05 pm #

    The Magic M: That probably comes from reading too many spy novels – or watching movies like “Soylent Green”.

    The character of birtherism is nothing new, is the usual car-right paranoid nostalgia … fearing the present while pining for all the yesterdays that never were. Some of the specifics are new, particularly the idea that there is a specific goal, a chance for instant gratification …. the long hard slog of acquiring political power, working the establishment is not required. The mode of communication, the fantasy world of the collective headspace of the interwebs helps it spread. But really, it’s just more of the usual. Just leaked out of it containment tank for awhile.

    Remember Epperley in Juneau, AK? I came across more of his writings. He’s been flogging these memes for years. For the way-out wingers, birtherism is just a passing fancy, and a tame one at that!

  16. avatar
    misha April 27, 2012 at 10:23 pm #

    Bob: The choice of Mitt Romney will only exacerbate the Birther’s frustration.

    ‘Romney has standing. He can demand to see Obama’s birth and all other records.’

    Romney is not going near that 3rd rail.

  17. avatar
    J. Potter April 27, 2012 at 10:44 pm #

    The name for the birther fantasy I posted above? Die Öboterdämmerung, of course!

  18. avatar
    Keith April 28, 2012 at 2:18 am #

    misha: Romney has standing. He can demand to see Obama’s birth and all other records.’

    Actually Romney can ‘demand to see Obama’s birth and all other records’ with or without ‘standing’.

    There is no particular reason to expect that such demands would be satisfied, but he can go ahead and demand as much as he likes, I suppose.

  19. avatar
    Lupin April 28, 2012 at 3:01 am #

    This diary on Kos expands on the subject:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/27/1086999/-I-met-some-tea-partiers-today-and-they-were-mentally-ill

    Highly recommended reading.

  20. avatar
    J. Potter April 28, 2012 at 9:31 am #

    Jim Robinson threatens to ban all Romney supporters from Free Republic

    Thanks for that link, Lupin, one good one lead to another. This version of the Hitler Bunker rant had me crying over my Lucky Charms! 😀

    On another thread, I postulated that a conversation devoid of disagreement and accountability would run something like the Pythons’ Four Yorkshireman skit, and that Tea Party tale fits the bill to a ‘T’! If only it was a word-for-word transcript.

    I’ve been trying to think of a word for the social convention this represents …. it’s a common enough occurrence, but I keep coming up empty. What’s it called when a group engages in a game of verbal oneupsmanship, taking turns making increasingly outlandish assertions, never (or at best rarely) calling each other out other the deepening cattle droppings? Any term more technical for it that bullsh*t session?

  21. avatar
    gorefan April 28, 2012 at 10:16 am #

    J. Potter: This version of the Hitler Bunker rant had me crying over my Lucky Charms

    Best quote from the video,

    “It’s OK, Ann – maybe you can still give him one…”

  22. avatar
    alg April 28, 2012 at 10:25 am #

    Something I hear a lot from the birthers is that “obots” are sheep. Of course one fundamental flaw of such assertions is that birthers automatically assume that “obots” actually are political supporters of Barack Obama. That’s not necessarily the case. Some of us “obots” actually hold reservations about Obama’s policy perspectives and political competence. But that’s not really the point in the birther “debate.”

    For me the “debate” is about a disturbing condition today where modern media sources and social networking tools can reinforce large numbers of people to believe something that simply isn’t true, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

    That birthers believe that “obots” are sheep belies a troublesome challenge to future of rational and respectful debate and discourse so essential to having an effective democracy. These individuals, while actually quite small in number, are able to reinforce their beliefs in the face of contrary evidence because internet media and social networking tools suffuse them into believing themselves. It’s kind of like attending a perpetual Sunday church service every time one fires up the computer and signs on.

    But what’s good counsel for the birthers is also good for us “obots.” We have to be careful ourselves that we aren’t letting self-reinforcing forums like these seize control of our beliefs and inhibit our capacity to think critically. A bit of self-skepticism is always well-advised.

  23. avatar
    Sef April 28, 2012 at 10:41 am #

    misha: Romney is not going near that 3rd rail.

    Except Romney isn’t “grounded:.

  24. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 28, 2012 at 11:32 am #

    Sef: Except Romney isn’t “grounded:.

    Cha-ching!

  25. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 28, 2012 at 11:39 am #

    I’ve been trying to think of a word for the social convention this represents …. it’s a common enough occurrence, but I keep coming up empty. What’s it called when a group engages in a game of verbal oneupsmanship, taking turns making increasingly outlandish assertions, never (or at best rarely) calling each other out other the deepening cattle droppings? Any term more technical for it that bullsh*t session?

    “Thrasonic Circle-Jerk”?

  26. avatar
    Majority Will April 28, 2012 at 12:34 pm #

    Thomas Brown: “Thrasonic Circle-Jerk”?

    The George W. Bush historical legacy.

  27. avatar
    misha April 28, 2012 at 2:11 pm #

    Keith: Actually Romney can demand to see Obama’s birth and all other records’ with or without standing’.

    Let me elucidate. Romney is the actual candidate. Brief aside: Intrade has Obama at 59.9%, and Willard Mitt Romney at 37.7%. Seamus asks everyone to vote for Obama, because Bo never had the indignity of 12 hours on a car roof. Hey Willard – the luggage goes on the roof, not the dog. What do you expect from someone who buys a Chevy, instead of a car from his father’s company? Yeah, I know – AMC wasn’t the greatest, but the Javelin was a great pony car. And what’s this with conservatives and animal cruelty?

    Where was I? Oh, yeah. As the actual candidate, Romney has the legal right to see Obama’s birth records. When the birthers start, Romney is not going near that, because Obama’s hatchet men will bring up George and Mexico. That’s going to make the birthers even more frenzied than they are now. I truly believe when Willard brushes (not Fuller) them off, Orly is going to have a full breakdown, and end up committed. That’s not hyperbole.

    To John and Rambo Ike: This is what Orly, Shrub and evengelicals have wrought –

    ‘Modesty Guard’ demands Jerusalem woman leave ultra-Orthodox neighborhood – In yet another case of exclusion of women in Israel, a mother of two is threatened for having crossed the limits of the Torah of Israel.’

    But, on Thursday, R. received a letter demanding she leave the neighborhood immediately, for having transgressed the Jewish laws of modesty.

    “[I]t will not happen here any longer. We are requesting you leave our neighborhood for having crossed the limits of the Torah of Israel and modesty in our neighborhood. We ask that you leave our neighborhood immediately. [Signed,] The Modesty Guard.” At the end of the letter were the words, “This is a first and final warning.”

    Complete story:
    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/modesty-guard-demands-jerusalem-woman-leave-ultra-orthodox-neighborhood-1.426922

    I had a run-in with them. I was walking with my cousin, who was wearing short pants. A child shouted ‘harlot’ at her in Yiddish, and threw a rock at her. Why Yiddish, and not Hebrew? They only speak Hebrew when speaking to God. This is not a joke.

  28. avatar
    misha April 28, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

    Majority Will: The George W. Bush historical legacy.

    The George W. Bush Museum of Science – Shrub on evolution: “The jury is still out.”
    The Spiro Agnew School of Public Administration

    Also, Regent University, Liberty University, Bob Jones University, Oral Roberts University, Patrick Henry College. Plus the 5 colleges Sarah Palin went to, before she finally got her degree.

  29. avatar
    misha April 28, 2012 at 6:38 pm #

    This is the mentality, impervious to reason:

    Body found in bunker where suspect holed up – “We gathered he had a doomsday attitude … family and friends have indicated he thought the world was going to end at some point,” West said.

    One photo was enhanced and it aided in the search for Keller, who authorities said had been building the bunker for at least eight years.

    The sheriff’s office this week obtained an arrest warrant for Keller stipulating two counts of first-degree murder and first-degree arson.

    Complete story:
    http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/28/justice/washington-bunker-suspect/index.html

  30. avatar
    bovril April 28, 2012 at 6:47 pm #

    To merge the Freeperville, generic RWNJ intolerence of “the other”, the “freedom fighter” deluion and wholesale inability to step outside the herd meme, I give you….

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2877089/posts

    This is a 1500+ post thread but is fascinating to read.

    The background is RimJobs’ perpetual “Freepathon’ fund raising (a revenue stream that Mad Ole Orly and the rest of the grifters can only dream of) or rather how it ISN’T raising money.

    Normally, the quarterly beg ($88,000 this quarter) fills the coffers in 4-6 weeks or less.

    Trouble is, all is not well in Freepeville, RimJob has laid down the law and anyone who supports Mittens or dares to speak out about voting for him gets the “zot”. This has led to recent mass slaughter and voluntary drop outs of long time and very well fleeced members. The Freepathon is not going particullrly well and revenue is not what it should be…..

    A rational individual would moderate the actions of his “moderators” and since he’s supposedly desperate to make the President a one term wonder would get behind the Republican nominee. Yeaaaahhhhh, kike thats gonna happen…. 😎

    Reading the thread it is stunning in the degree of racism, intolerance, hatred and cult like “right-think” behaviour that hs become the norm on what once upon a time used to be a strongly conservative but reasonably tolerant site.

    The happy dance when folks who used to be the backbone of the site get zotted and mocked is rampant and quite disgusting.

    Then we have the “zotters” like TheOldLady, who are being called out as the list keeping Stasi of Freeper-think and enforcement who instead of standing back and letting people vent a bit come in with the boots and fists.

    It is a truly gruesome and enlightening view into the current mindset of the right and Freeperville would make great mterial for a thesis on delusional and magical thought…..

  31. avatar
    J. Potter April 28, 2012 at 7:24 pm #

    bovril: To merge the Freeperville, generic RWNJ intolerence of “the other”, the “freedom fighter” deluion and wholesale inability to step outside the herd meme, I give you….

    Thanks for that glimpse into the abyss, bovril! This weeks was NPR’s “Spring Fund Drive” …. quite a contrast.

  32. avatar
    misha April 28, 2012 at 8:16 pm #

    J. Potter: This weeks was NPR’s “Spring Fund Drive” …. quite a contrast.

    Remember how conservatives said they were going to stop all funding for NPR and PBS? Remember how conservatives said they were going to take both off the air?

    Instead, someone let the air out of the Pillsbury doughboy Newt McPherson Gingrich.

  33. avatar
    RuhRoh April 28, 2012 at 8:27 pm #

    test

  34. avatar
    Keith April 29, 2012 at 12:11 am #

    misha: As the actual candidate, Romney has the legal right to see Obama’s birth records.

    No more than you or I. He can, of course, ‘demand’ all he wants. Whether Obama bows to his demands is, also of course, unlikely. Mitt can see the image of the BC on the White House web site just like everyone else.

  35. avatar
    Keith April 29, 2012 at 12:22 am #

    bovril: Normally, the quarterly beg ($88,000 this quarter) fills the coffers in 4-6 weeks or less.

    $88,000 a quarter to run a web site? What in bloody blue blazes do they get up to over there?

    Domain name, hosting, and software should be less than a $1000 dollars a year.

    A couple of PC’s and all the software they could ever want would be maybe another couple of grand.

    Who do they think they are kidding?…oh…never mind.

  36. avatar
    Majority Will April 29, 2012 at 2:50 am #

    Keith: $88,000 a quarter to run a web site? What in bloody blue blazes do they get up to over there?

    Domain name, hosting, and software should be less than a $1000 dollars a year.

    A couple of PC’s and all the software they could ever want would be maybe another couple of grand.

    Who do they think they are kidding?…oh…never mind.

    The rest is for lotion, tissues and folding chairs.

  37. avatar
    misha April 29, 2012 at 3:04 am #

    Majority Will: The rest is for lotion, tissues and folding chairs.

    Don’t forget the girls. The Secret Service and Newt never forget.

    Newt Gingrich ended his campaign, and applied to the Secret Service. – Andy Borowitz

  38. avatar
    Keith April 29, 2012 at 3:24 am #

    Don’t you folks ever go to bed? It’s Sunday afternoon where I am, what is your excuse?

  39. avatar
    misha April 29, 2012 at 3:48 am #

    Keith: Don’t you folks ever go to bed? It’s Sunday afternoon where I am, what is your excuse?

    It’s 3:43 in the mayhem where I am – Philadelphia. I’m up with asthma, and my trusty plug-in hybrid nebulizer. Angel is sound asleep on my bed, and Max is on the desk, standing in front of the screen.

    I can’t lie down; the coughing starts, and I have to get up, so this distracts me.

  40. avatar
    Majority Will April 29, 2012 at 4:03 am #

    misha: Majority Will: The rest is for lotion, tissues and folding chairs.

    Don’t forget the girls. The Secret Service and Newt never forget.

    Newt Gingrich ended his campaign, and applied to the Secret Service. – Andy Borowitz

    Freepers prefer to fantasize over photos of Reagan in drag.

  41. avatar
    Lupin April 29, 2012 at 4:26 am #

    Sigmund Freud (I think it was?) already dealt with the same syndrome that the freepers/birthers manifest in their inability to accept Obama’s “reality”, and instead offer circular/self-contradicting arguments, with this famous quip about the broken kettle:

    I never borrowed a kettle from you
    I returned it to you unbroken
    It was already broken when I borrowed it from you.

    This string of inconsistent arguments confirms by negation what it tries to deny—that I returned your kettle broken, ie: that Obama is a legitimate President.

    Other types of this type of “reasoning” include children who didn’t do their homework:

    I lost it
    My dog ate it
    I didn’t know it was assigned

    THE SIMPSONS offered some wonderful dialogue by Bart along those same lines.

    When you follow the news, you find a lot of examples of this meme in the so-called mainstream media. For instance, the US media response to the Occupy movement was basically:

    The Occupiers lack specific demands
    The Occupiers’ demands are unreasonable
    Meeting the Occupiers’ demands would not solve the problem(s)

    This really is an area that should be examined and commented upon by psychiatrists, not politicians and pundits.

  42. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 29, 2012 at 8:06 am #

    The only thing that would justify that kind of money is staff.

    Keith: $88,000 a quarter to run a web site? What in bloody blue blazes do they get up to over there?

  43. avatar
    J. Potter April 29, 2012 at 8:40 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The only thing that would justify that kind of money is staff.

    the only typical business expense that might explain it. They could say it was for staff … now justify the need for staff. $300K worth of staffing. If you can count the ‘staff’ on one hand (or less), now justify those salaries.

    I don’t see any explanation of what the $$$’s for … other keeping at least 1 person from having to be otherwise employed. Saving them from employment … saving them in style.

  44. avatar
    Majority Will April 29, 2012 at 9:08 am #

    J. Potter: the only typical business expense that might explain it. They could say it was for staff … now justify the need for staff. $300K worth of staffing. If you can count the staff’ on one hand (or less), now justify those salaries.

    I don’t see any explanation of what the $$$’s for … other keeping at least 1 person from having to be otherwise employed. Saving them from employment … saving them in style.

    A former GSA employee?

  45. avatar
    bovril April 29, 2012 at 10:54 am #

    This is how Freep breaks it down…

    https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/budget

    Free Republic Monthly Budget

    Once we get our monthly donations to the point where they will cover all of our expenses, we will not need to have fundraisers.

    Est. Recurring Monthly Contributions $11,570

    Monthly Expenses
    Bandwidth and Colocation 2,430
    Systems and Programming 7,000
    Management and Admin + Taxes 13,500
    Legal and Accounting 1,000
    Bank Fees, Credit Card Fees, Processing Fees 900
    Equip, Maintenance and Repairs 600
    Office Expenses, Rents, Insurance, Telephone, ISP, Supplies, Allowance for Declines/Cancels 2,500
    Travel Expenses 1,200

    29,130

    ——————————————————————————–

    ——————————————————————————–

    Est. Monthly Shortfall ($17,560)

  46. avatar
    Sef April 29, 2012 at 12:17 pm #

    bovril:
    This is how Freep breaks it down…

    https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/budget

    Free Republic Monthly Budget

    Once we get our monthly donations to the point where they will cover all of our expenses, we will not need to have fundraisers.

    Est. Recurring Monthly Contributions $11,570

    Monthly Expenses Bandwidth and Colocation2,430 Systems and Programming7,000 Management and Admin + Taxes13,500 Legal and Accounting 1,000 Bank Fees, Credit Card Fees, Processing Fees 900 Equip, Maintenance and Repairs600 Office Expenses, Rents, Insurance, Telephone, ISP, Supplies, Allowance for Declines/Cancels2,500 Travel Expenses 1,200

    29,130

    ——————————————————————————–

    ——————————————————————————–

    Est. Monthly Shortfall ($17,560)

    Any one of those line items you want to dig into will highlight a racket. Especially $2.4K for colocation. At least somebody else is taking these jokers to the cleaners.

  47. avatar
    Majority Will April 29, 2012 at 12:38 pm #

    Sef: Any one of those line items you want to dig into will highlight a racket. Especially $2.4K for colocation. At least somebody else is taking these jokers to the cleaners.

    Someone is finding gold coins in a sea of mud.

  48. avatar
    J. Potter April 29, 2012 at 12:41 pm #

    bovril: This is how Freep breaks it down…

    Oh, right, I have seen that breakdown before!

    And, yes, it’s just as excretory now as it was then.

    But, even if that was a legit accounting of their expenses (laughlaughlaugh … I’ve worked for far more complex web enterprises with much tinier IT budgets) …

    They need to raise $88K this quarter to cover 3 months $17,560 monthly shortfall = $52,680 quarterly shortfall?

    That’s a 67% markup! Would you donate to any charity with a 40% overhaed on all donations? Yikes.

    Finally, “we need $88K this quarter” …. why that particular sum this quarter? Let me guess …. the sum goes up every quarter, w/o explanation? They need $88K because they say they need $88K.

  49. avatar
    J. Potter April 29, 2012 at 12:44 pm #

    Who’s doing the $1200 worth of travel? FREEP could be run out of a house. Might as well label that vacation fund.

    “Office Expenses, Rents, Insurance, Telephone, ISP, Supplies, Allowance for Declines/Cancels” …. why is all that lumped together? They are not getting their $1,000 worth of accounting 😉

  50. avatar
    bovril April 29, 2012 at 12:58 pm #

    Basically RimJob and family have set up a wonderful low cost, high return “business”.

    The site is god awful in look, feel and capability, barely one step up from a dialup BBS sytem, the moderators and admins work for free and “power” over others.

    There is no original content by Freeperville just copy ‘n paste by idiots from other news stories that pander to the inherent prejudices of the herd.

    Basically a howling wilderness of RWNJ talking points and prejudice pandering…a very profitable one though….

  51. avatar
    Sef April 29, 2012 at 1:29 pm #

    bovril: Legal and Accounting 1,000

    Does this mean that one of the burther attorneys is on retainer?

  52. avatar
    Sef April 29, 2012 at 1:36 pm #

    J. Potter: Who’s doing the $1200 worth of travel?

    That’s what they have to pay the guy who goes every night to the server, changes the backup tape and takes it to an offsite location in case “anything happens”. Gas is expensive, also fixing tires that get screws in their sidewalls. They don’t pay the guy enough so that he can get a ring job on the Gremlin’s engine, so there’s all that oil cost, too.

  53. avatar
    Majority Will April 29, 2012 at 1:59 pm #

    Sef: They don’t pay the guy enough so that he can get a ring job on the Gremlin’s engine*, so there’s all that oil cost, too.

    * AHA! A George Romney conspiracy!

  54. avatar
    misha April 29, 2012 at 2:17 pm #

    Sef: They don’t pay the guy enough so that he can get a ring job on the Gremlin’s engine, so there’s all that oil cost, too.

    Majority Will: * AHA! A George Romney conspiracy!

    50 Worst Cars of All Time:

    1970 AMC Gremlin –
    http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658498_1657865,00.html

    1978 AMC Pacer –
    “Remember Richard Teague, designer of the amputated Gremlin? Him again.”

    http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658533_1658042,00.html

    Surprisingly, neither photograph of these two cars had a dog tied to the roof. What happened?

  55. avatar
    Sef April 29, 2012 at 2:40 pm #

    misha:
    50 Worst Cars of All Time:

    1970 AMC Gremlin –
    http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658498_1657865,00.html

    1978 AMC Pacer –
    “Remember Richard Teague, designer of the amputated Gremlin? Him again.”

    http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658533_1658042,00.html

    Surprisingly, neither photograph of these two cars had a dog tied to the roof. What happened?

    Where can I get a 1913 Scripps-Booth Bi-Autogo?

  56. avatar
    US Citizen April 29, 2012 at 5:03 pm #

    AMC *did* try with their AMX line tho.
    Definite muscle cars.
    The later II and III models even looked good.

  57. avatar
    misha April 29, 2012 at 6:12 pm #

    Sef: Where can I get a 1913 Scripps-Booth Bi-Autogo?

    Why? Going to build a still?

  58. avatar
    Keith April 30, 2012 at 7:41 am #

    misha: It’s 3:43 in the mayhem where I am – Philadelphia. I’m up with asthma, and my trusty plug-in hybrid nebulizer. Angel is sound asleep on my bed, and Max is on the desk, standing in front of the screen.

    I can’t lie down; the coughing starts, and I have to get up, so this distracts me.

    Philly, huh? You fancy yourself a comedian (with some justification, I suppose); I understand you guys really like the comedian Bill Burr. Is that right?

  59. avatar
    Tarrant April 30, 2012 at 8:11 am #

    As noted on Fogbow, the “target” for this quarter has been steadily going down – their usual target is around $92k. It was reduced to $90k, now $88k. Interestingly they do this without ever actually acknowledging the change – instead the donation percentage meter jumps suddenly due to the new lower target, as of a big donation came in.

    One has to consider a good number of JimRob’s family “works” for FR and for some of them it’s probably their primary income, hence the outrageously high expenses for what they seem to be doing.

  60. avatar
    JPotter April 30, 2012 at 10:11 am #

    Tarrant: As noted on Fogbow, the “target” for this quarter has been steadily going down –

    Interesting to know, Tarant! I’m sure it drops whenever a big check comes in (wink, wink) …. or, no, they probably reduce it weekly to reflect the passage of time, right? … right?

    I have been watching gas prices fall, and have waited for the accompanying news blitz. So when will it kick in? Been dropping for at least a month here. Down almost 10%. Searching for FOX news price of gass falling, got exactly 1 relevant, recent hit, that makes no mention of presidential politics:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/20/after-4-month-surge-gas-prices-start-falling/

    Also came across a Media Matters flashback to FOX explaining how powerless the President re: price of gas in—you guessed it!—2008, right before the market crashed hard. I haven’t seen any birthers touch this one recently, not even to allege Obama is buying votes with gas or something.

    I do know of one claiming it’s suspicious that Homeland Security is contracting to buy ammunition. And the birther cites an actual news piece, announcing the contract:

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/atk-secures-40-caliber-ammunition-contract-with-department-of-homeland-security-us-immigration-and-customs-enforcement-dhs-ice-2012-03-12

    Wow! DHS is buying bullets! All this time, all those guns were empty! Who knew? Oh, the fun we could have had.

  61. avatar
    misha April 30, 2012 at 11:15 am #

    Keith: You fancy yourself a comedian (with some justification, I suppose)

    A man is standing on the Empire State Building observation deck. “Wow. Lookit all these skyscrapers. I can’t get over this city.” Behind him, stood two men.

    One of them walked next to the tourist, and said “From out of town?” “Yeah, I’m from Iowa.”

    The man said “these buildings are so close together, you could jump off and the air currents would prevent you from falling to the ground.” The tourist replied “I’m from Iowa, but I’m not that stupid.”

    The man said, “No, it’s true. Here, I’ll show you.” He climbed over the railing and jumped. He was halfway to the ground, stopped and wafted back up, over the railing, and landed on the deck.

    “Wow. I thought you were pulling my leg.” “No, it’s true,” the man said. The tourist said, “I’ve always wanted to do that.” He climbed over the railing, jumped, and plunged to the ground.

    The third man in the background walked next to the man who jumped, and came back. They looked over the railing, saw a crowd gather, and heard sirens. He said to the man who jumped and came back, “you can be a real stinker sometimes, Superman.”

  62. avatar
    Rambo Ike April 30, 2012 at 3:56 pm #

    How weird is this!

    Over these last 2 weeks I kept saying to myself that it looks like the Dunning–Kruger effect.

    I’ve been arguing with a host of posters in this 1 particular forum and have witnessed what these poor unfortunates suffering from this debilitating condition are going through.

    I know it’s cold of me to not have sympathy, but I can’t help myself – I have to laugh at them.

  63. avatar
    El Diablo Negro May 1, 2012 at 7:42 am #

    “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge” -Charles Darwin

    Rambo Ike: How weird is this!
    Over these last 2 weeks I kept saying to myself that it looks like the Dunning–Kruger effect.
    I’ve been arguing with a host of posters in this 1 particular forum and have witnessed what these poor unfortunates suffering from this debilitating condition are going through.
    I know it’s cold of me to not have sympathy, but I can’t help myself – I have to laugh at them.

  64. avatar
    Horus May 1, 2012 at 12:29 pm #

    Every time Obama capitulates to the Birthers, Democrats say “Touchdown!”, Birthers say “Oh no you don’t, you’ve got 10 more yards to go!”.

    I know it’s not an actual quote, but I was just trying to make a point about them always moving the goalpost.

  65. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 1, 2012 at 1:24 pm #

    I will be the first to say that I exemplify the Dunning-Kruger effect. I’m one of those well-qualified persons who underestimate their competence.

    Rambo Ike: Over these last 2 weeks I kept saying to myself that it looks like the Dunning–Kruger effect.

    I’ve been arguing with a host of posters in this 1 particular forum and have witnessed what these poor unfortunates suffering from this debilitating condition are going through.

  66. avatar
    nbc May 1, 2012 at 2:08 pm #

    I will be the first to say that I exemplify the Dunning-Kruger effect. I’m one of those well-qualified persons who underestimate their competence.

    ROTFL..

  67. avatar
    Arthur May 1, 2012 at 2:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I will be the first to say that I exemplify the Dunning-Kruger effect. I’m one of those well-qualified persons who underestimate their competence.

    I’m so highly competent, in so many areas, that not only do I underestimate my abilities, but so does everyone else! On top of that, I’m also extremely good looking, so naturally, people consider me rather plain. Oh the curse of being totes smart and hella handsome!

  68. avatar
    bovril May 1, 2012 at 2:59 pm #

    As a little catch up on my earlier post around Freeperville and the imposition of RWNJ “right-think”

    http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/freepathon/index?tab=articles

    The original thread on FR garnered 2,289 posts in less than 3 days and RimJob was less than amused about the munbers of miscreants daring to talk back. Mass zotting ensued and a number of long term posters said they were outta there.

    Since the “Cult of Freeper” cannot accept criticism or interruption of The Precious, RimJob then decided that the thread should be closed and not one but two new ones opened that start….and I quote…

    This FReepathon thread is for FReepers who believe in and support our pro-life, pro-family, pro-limited government conservative causes, enjoy reading and participating on FR, think it’s a worthwhile endeavor and would like to help us keep it going.

    I retired the previous thread as it was being used by posters who obviously do not agree with our purposes here and or no longer enjoy participating on FR or no longer believe it is worthwhile. Hopefully, they’ll respect us enough to stay off this thread. If they no longer enjoy FR, no longer respect us, etc, then perhaps they should consider leaving. I’m certainly not asking them to donate, but I do expect them not to be disruptive to our purposes here

    The new threads are now solely permitted to enter propaganda about the fluffy wonders of Freeperville, how much RimJob suffers for them, how they are “THE RESISTANCE” and a variety of tacky faux patriotic images strong on bald eagles, firearms, “We the people” documents, outright begs etc.

    For a site that preens and struts about how upright, strong, independant, free thinking and right thinking they are, the sheep like fear, control of the message, excoriating the unbeliever and propaganda would give Stalin wood……

  69. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 1, 2012 at 5:56 pm #

    “a little rebellion now and then is a good thing”

    — Thomas Jefferson

    bovril: The original thread on FR garnered 2,289 posts in less than 3 days and RimJob was less than amused about the munbers of miscreants daring to talk back. Mass zotting ensued and a number of long term posters said they were outta there.

  70. avatar
    JPotter May 1, 2012 at 7:21 pm #

    bovril: As a little catch up on my earlier post around Freeperville and the imposition of RWNJ “right-think”

    Sooo ….. what was is the going rate on “respect”? How are the futures lookin’? 😉

  71. avatar
    Keith May 1, 2012 at 10:06 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    “a little rebellion now and then is a good thing”

    – Thomas Jefferson

    I had my little rebellion last month over my mobile phone provider’s online account registration process. I won.

    This month is young. I’ll keep my powder dry for the time being.