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Arizona: Cold Case Posse under press scrutiny

I’ve been struck by the unusually large number of media articles showing up in my Google “birther” alerts. Much of it is about Arizona’s Secretary of State Ken Bennett and his quest to gain verification of President Obama’s birth from the State of Hawaii, a quest that has reached a successful conclusion. In parallel the press is reporting that the Maricopa County Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio sent deputies to Hawaii, seeking the same verification. Just about ever major news outlet has stories reporting that Bennett is satisfied, and Arpaio is not.

One headline struck me in particular because of it’s critical phrasing: “Arizona Sheriff Arpaio uses taxpayers’ money to sent birther investigators to Hawaii.” The article is topped with a very unflattering photo of Arpaio. Is this this from an Obama-friendly news outlet, from a liberal rag? No, it’s from the very conservative Washington Times, in their Communities section, the same newspaper where Charles Kerchner ran his half-page advertisements challenging Obama’s eligibility. Arpaio is called “Super Birther Sheriff.” The “Cold Case Posse” is called “The Cold Case vigilantes” and their project a “bogus investigation.”

According to the Times article, the Cold Case Posse investigation has eaten up $40,000 of donated money.

I left the following comment on the article:

Frankly, I think Arpaio is in a lot more trouble from the civil lawsuits pending against him than he is from the Department of Justice. The potential consequences from the suit by retired Superior Court Judge Gary Donahoe over trumped-up politically-motivates criminal charges filed against him in 2009 are going to hurt a lot more. In the Donahoe case allegations, we see the same pattern of unsubstantiated charges, false probable cause, and trial by press conference repeated in the Cold Case Posse investigation.

The fact that a conservative paper like the Washington Times publishes an article like this highlights how far out of the mainstream Arpaio is. Conservatives are leaving him to twist in the wind.

Note: the article writer, Catherine Poe, is a Democrat.

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85 Responses to Arizona: Cold Case Posse under press scrutiny

  1. avatar
    BillTheCat May 24, 2012 at 2:51 pm #

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

  2. avatar
    Sam the Centipede May 24, 2012 at 2:57 pm #

    Doc C commented:

    […] the suit by retired Superior Court Judge Gary Donahoe […]

    I am not a lawyer of course, but if I walked into a courtroom and saw that on one side there was a retired senior judge and on the other a county sheriff with knuckle-headed views, I don’t think I’d be wagering my money on the sheriff winning that case.

  3. avatar
    Paul May 24, 2012 at 3:13 pm #

    A note on the sidebar says “This is the Communities at WashingtonTimes.com. Individual contributors are responsible for their content, which is not edited by The Washington Times.” Wonder if they’ll decide to edit it after all the complaints they’ll likely get from WT’s dedicated readers.

  4. avatar
    The Magic M May 24, 2012 at 3:31 pm #

    > According to the Times article, the Cold Case Posse investigation has eaten up $40,000 of donated money.

    I’d venture a guess that’s at least 10 times what Orly raked in. But I’m curious if the taxpayer money issue will open the sheriff up to actual problems. I mean, he was sure quick to say everything would be paid back using the donations fund. Still this reeks. I don’t remember any law enforcement asking for and/or accepting donations. Is that legal in the US? In my country, that would be akin to bribery and is forbidden (though not necessarily illegal). Is there at least some sort of ethics code that can be enforced?

  5. avatar
    JPotter May 24, 2012 at 3:48 pm #

    The Magic M: I mean, he was sure quick to say everything would be paid back using the donations fund

    It all seems very shady. First the adamant statements that no taxpayer money was being used. Now, tax money has been used, but it will be paid by donations. “will”? the department will be reimbursed by donations not yet in hand ….. ? Why on earth did Arpaio make such a statement? “No tax money used” just sounded fishy. “Tax money temporarily borrowed” is fishy.

    Next is pleading guilty to missappropriating funds.

  6. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 24, 2012 at 4:38 pm #

    You’re right. The pace has picked up in the media. That’s good.

    What I’d like to have more information on is the $40,000. Think about it: The posse is all volunteers. What else have they done that could have cost money….especially that much?

    Is there any chance they paid Mara Zebest for the material that made up the bulk (if not all) of the sheriff’s report? How about Corse? Inquiring minds want to know

    My recollection is that non-profits affiliated with public entities (like the posse) don’t have to file 990’s. I wonder what a FOIA request would produce?

  7. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 24, 2012 at 4:42 pm #

    JPotter: Why on earth did Arpaio make such a statement? “No tax money used” just sounded fishy

    It never made sense, you’re right.

    How about the sheriff’s time? How about office space? Phones? Utilities?

    I suspect his PR folks have spent a considerable amount of time answering questions about the posse.

  8. avatar
    nbc May 24, 2012 at 4:52 pm #

    CarlOrcas: It never made sense, you’re right.

    He is very defensive which means that he is hiding something.

  9. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 24, 2012 at 5:01 pm #

    Just got to read Catherine Poe’s piece. While I think she’s on the right track there are some problems with her story:

    – Arpaio didn’t send a deputy and a “threat investigator” to Hawaii. The deputy (a sworn officer) was from the Threat’s Management Unit. The other person – Mike Zullo – is a non-sworn posse member.
    – The posse members aren’t vigilantes.
    – Zullo did not show a business card identifying himself as being with the Threats Management Unit. The deputy did.

    Other than that it’s a pretty good piece. She’s asking the right questions.

  10. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 24, 2012 at 5:15 pm #

    nbc: He is very defensive which means that he is hiding something.

    Of course he’s hiding something. That’s how he operates.

  11. avatar
    Paul May 24, 2012 at 5:35 pm #

    CarlOrcas:

    Other than that it’s a pretty good piece. She’s asking the right questions.

    She’s an “…individual contributor — responsible for their content, which is not edited by The Washington Times”. So this story wasn’t checked or vetted in any way, even by whatever minimal standards WT normally applies.

  12. avatar
    clestes May 24, 2012 at 6:03 pm #

    For months he has been in trouble. He stated all these big things he was going to find and then when time came to put up the evidence, turns out he didn’t have any. His press conference was a bust and he looked like a fool. He was complaining how no one was taking him seriously

    Then suddenly, out of the blue Bennett stepped an and after showing just cause, he gets the verified BC. Sheriff Joe thinks that he can get one too and runs over to HI to try and threaten his way into gettng something to.

    Only problem, HI officials said “No. You do not meet the necessary requirements and no one here cares about your card” and Joe looks more the fool than ever.

  13. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 24, 2012 at 6:18 pm #

    The more official side of the Times as far as I can tell, hasn’t said a word since May 12.

    Paul: She’s an “…individual contributor — responsible for their content, which is not edited by The Washington Times”. So this story wasn’t checked or vetted in any way, even by whatever minimal standards WT normally applies.

  14. avatar
    john May 24, 2012 at 8:03 pm #

    If Sheriff Joe really wants to get his hands on Obama’s birth certificate, he is going to have elicit cooperation with Hawaii Law Enforcement. Arpaio has no jurisdiction in Hawaii but Hawaii Law Enforcement certainly does. Arpaio needs to work with Hawaii Law enforcement to establish joint jurisdiction. Once Hawaii Law Enforcement is inline, they can issue a search warrant and seize the birth certificate as part of the criminal investigation. The birth certificate can then be sent to be forensically test. Without the cooperation with Hawaii Law enforcement, Arpaio is going to have a difficult time completing his criminal investigation. Zullo and others who may in Hawaii at the current time need to work hard to establish cooperation with Hawaii Law Enforcement if they are to get anywhere.

  15. avatar
    Majority Will May 24, 2012 at 8:24 pm #

    john: . . . cooperation with Hawaii Law Enforcement.

    “Book ‘em, Danno”

  16. avatar
    richCares May 24, 2012 at 8:34 pm #

    john, sorry to disappoint you, there is no criminal investigation, there is nothing to complete, what’s in your delusions don’t count. aren’t you really tired of losing?

  17. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 24, 2012 at 8:37 pm #

    Paul: She’s an “…individual contributor — responsible for their content, which is not edited by The Washington Times”. So this story wasn’t checked or vetted in any way, even by whatever minimal standards WT normally applies.

    We’re also responsible for the accuracy of what we write. Hers were simple, not terribly consequential, mistakes but mistakes nonetheless. She could have avoided them by reading the available stories a little more closely.

  18. avatar
    Thomas Brown May 24, 2012 at 8:37 pm #

    richCares:
    john, sorry to disappoint you, there is no criminal investigation, there is nothing to complete, what’s in your delusions don’t count. aren’t you really tired of losing?

    Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly; Birfers gotta lose, but they don’t know why.

  19. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 24, 2012 at 8:40 pm #

    john: Once Hawaii Law Enforcement is inline, they can issue a search warrant and seize the birth certificate as part of the criminal investigation

    Law enforcement officers (capitalized or not) don’t issue search warrants. Courts do that and I seriously doubt any Hawaii court is ever going to approve allowing any agency, in or out of the state, to “seize” Obama’s original birth record.

  20. avatar
    sfjeff May 24, 2012 at 8:51 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Law enforcement officers (capitalized or not) don’t issue search warrants. Courts do that and I seriously doubt any Hawaii court is ever going to approve allowing any agency, in or out of the state, to “seize” Obama’s original birth record.

    And in case John hasn’t noticed…..Sheriff Joe has been very careful not to present any of this to a DA, or near a judge.

    Speaking of judges- does anyone think that any Maricopa County judge is in a hurry to be seen cooperating with Arpaio? Or that any judge in Hawaii would welcome a case that essentially calls the State of Hawaii a liar?

    Sheriff Joe’s posse in Hawaii basically is Barney Fife and Gomer showing up wearing Hawaiian shirts and digging through garbage cans.

  21. avatar
    ellen May 24, 2012 at 9:26 pm #

    Are birthers turning into two-fers? Has the Arizona fiasco undermined the claim that Obama was not born in Hawaii in some birthers’ minds?

    WND, which you may recall for years ran posters and had planes carry banners saying “Where’s the birth certificate?”, has just run this small comment:

    “It’s not about the birth certificate!

    The Arizona secretary of state has been suckered by Hawaii with the state’s response to his request for certification that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    The birth certificate is not the issue with Obama’s eligibility. It is his failure to meet the requirements of Article II, Section I, clause 5, of the Constitution – and that is getting lost in the chaff about the birth certficate (sic).

    The Obots must be laughing themselves silly.”

    Well, actually, I am amused.

    Is this an admission by WND (not by even more crazy birthers, of course) that Obama’s birth certificate in fact does exist? Or is WND merely allowing one of the wavering “Where’s the birth Certificate?” supporters to switch to being a follower of Vattel?

  22. avatar
    DP May 24, 2012 at 9:26 pm #

    john:
    If Sheriff Joe really wants to get his hands on Obama’s birth certificate, he is going to have elicit cooperation with Hawaii Law Enforcement.Arpaio has no jurisdiction in Hawaii but Hawaii Law Enforcement certainly does.Arpaio needs to work with Hawaii Law enforcement to establish joint jurisdiction. Once Hawaii Law Enforcement is inline, they can issue a search warrant and seize the birth certificate as part of the criminal investigation.The birth certificate can then be sent to be forensically test.Without the cooperation with Hawaii Law enforcement, Arpaio is going to have a difficult time completing his criminal investigation.Zullo and others who may in Hawaii at the current time need to work hard to establish cooperation with Hawaii Law Enforcement if they are to get anywhere.

    And if I want a billion dollars, I’m going to have to work to establish that goal with Bill Gates. The problem for me, of course, is that I’m a delusional moron to imagine that goal is of any interest to him.

    If the fabulous Sheriff Joe is unwilling to forward his case to an actual court, there is nothing to cooperate on. Zullo is just some strange tourist to Hawaiian law enforcement. He has no more standing than you or I.

  23. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 24, 2012 at 9:42 pm #

    sfjeff: And in case John hasn’t noticed…..Sheriff Joe has been very careful not to present any of this to a DA, or near a judge.

    I’d be real interested in knowing if a case (DR) number has been assigned to the “investigation”. A DR number is issued for every arrest, reported crime, investigation, etc.

    I suspect they have but if they haven’t it would speak volumes.

    And, you’re right, no judge will touch this until it is vetted by a real prosecutor.

    The whole Hawaii trip is just a stunt…..a stupid stunt.

  24. avatar
    Jim May 24, 2012 at 10:07 pm #

    Here’s a good one…citizens are starting to fight back against Sheriff Joe!

    “Wearing flip-flops, grass skirts and Hawaiian leis, with surfboards in tow and the pungent odor of sunscreen trailing behind them, around 15-to-20 members of Citizens for a Better Arizona stormed the 19th Floor of Phoenix’s Wells Fargo Building this afternoon, briefly taking over the entranceway to Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s tony executive offices.”

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2012/05/joe_arpaio_avoids_getting_leid.php

  25. avatar
    Jim May 24, 2012 at 10:15 pm #

    And now, Hendershott is suing the Sheriff…wonder if he’d be willing to talk to the Feds about Joe?

    http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/04/30/46079.htm

    Old Joe’s whole world is starting to crumble around him…couldn’t happen to a nicer guy!

    :D

  26. avatar
    Edward Schnur May 24, 2012 at 10:18 pm #

    The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen. This fact supercedes all questions about the location of his birth. The whole “birther” meme is merely obfucation and deflection in true Alinski fashion. The problem with the marxist and Alinski method is that prevarication is justified as the means to obtaining an end. This is in conflict with the Judeo-Christian heritage which believes in moral absolutes as opposed to moral relativism. The collectivism of the statists stands in stark contrast to the concept of individual exceptionalism. Christianity also emphasizes individual salvation. The marxists supplant theology, family and charity(love) with the bureaucracy of the central planners, whom they believe know better than the citizens how to direct society. Obama long ago went to the dark side of Alinski which explains his incessant inability to tell the truth about his intention to “fundamentally transform” America. Lieing about the circumstances of his birth is consistent with his overriding philosophy. The “constitutional” lawyer must have missed the day they discussed Article 2, Sec. 1, clause 5. Either that or…

  27. avatar
    Paul May 24, 2012 at 10:20 pm #

    CarlOrcas: We’re also responsible for the accuracy of what we write. Hers were simple, not terribly consequential, mistakes but mistakes nonetheless. She could have avoided them by reading the available stories a little more closely.

    Wasn’t making excuses for her CarlOrcas, just noting that, apparently, she’s not a reporter, from whom we would all expect at least a minimally higher standard.

  28. avatar
    Sean May 24, 2012 at 10:25 pm #

    Why did the cold case posse only go to Hawaii AFTER the investigation was over?

  29. avatar
    Paul May 24, 2012 at 10:44 pm #

    Edward Schnur:
    The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact…

    That’s the biggest load of horse hockey I’ve read in days.

  30. avatar
    john May 24, 2012 at 10:55 pm #

    Hawaii’s Non-Verification
    http://butterdezillion.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/hi-non-verification-1.pdf

  31. avatar
    DP May 24, 2012 at 10:56 pm #

    Edward Schnur:
    The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen.This fact supercedes all questions about the location of his birth.The whole “birther” meme is merely obfucation and deflection in true Alinski fashion.The problem with the marxist and Alinski method is that prevarication is justified as the means to obtaining an end.This is in conflict with the Judeo-Christian heritage which believes in moral absolutes as opposed to moral relativism.The collectivism of the statists stands in stark contrast to the concept of individual exceptionalism.Christianity also emphasizes individual salvation.The marxists supplant theology, family and charity(love) with the bureaucracy of the central planners, whom they believe know better than the citizens how to direct society.Obama long ago went to the dark side of Alinski which explains his incessant inability to tell the truth about his intention to “fundamentally transform” America. Lieing about the circumstances of his birth is consistent with his overriding philosophy.The “constitutional” lawyer must have missed the day they discussed Article 2, Sec. 1, clause 5.Either that or…

    First, it was the birthers who raised the whole birth certificate issue in the first place. No one outside of them ever pretneded it was anythign but foolish from the get go.

    Second, if you accept the birth certificate as a red herring, how has Obama lied about the circumstances of his birth? He has always been quite open about the fact that his father was not an American citizen. Even wrote a book about it.

    Third, there is no ignorance of the Constitution except yours. No one protested Obama’s paternal lineage before the last election becuse it is well established in American law that NBC = born here. All the case law accumulating from the birthers’ efforts substantiates that.

    So, from a Christian perspective, your false pride in your intellectual presumptions leads you to bear false witness.

  32. avatar
    Northland10 May 24, 2012 at 11:12 pm #

    john: If Sheriff Joe really wants to get his hands on Obama’s birth certificate, he is going to have elicit cooperation with Hawaii Law Enforcement. Arpaio has no jurisdiction in Hawaii but Hawaii Law Enforcement certainly does. Arpaio needs to work with Hawaii Law enforcement to establish joint jurisdiction.

    Try this John. Maybe you could go to one of his press conferences and show him the wonders of the Lucas Smith BC. That should work, don’t you think? Then he will really know the LFBC is a “fake, forgery, fraud, futon, etc.

  33. avatar
    Thomas Brown May 24, 2012 at 11:24 pm #

    Edward Schnur:
    The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen.

    Listen up, Ed, Ike, John, et.al.:

    Posterity is always smarter than the currently alive.

    There was a huge struggle between abolitionists and pro-slavery forces. Abolitionists prevailed, but just barely. Today it is virtually unanimously believed that slavery was an abomination, and I can’t remember hearing anyone advocate for bringing it back.

    Posterity will record President Obama as either an average or good President, but certainly as legimately elected and Constitutionally eligible to serve. You all, on the other hand, will be remembered as delusional racist buffoons so desperate to damage BHO’s Presidency that you would squander valuable public resources on an idiotic and doomed partisan quasi-crusade, and for embarrasing your country’s allies and thrilling her detractors. You will not be remembered as defenders of the Constitution and the rule of law; you will be remembered as seditionists trying to thwart them.

    We, whom you deride as Obots, Koolade-drinkers, Traitors, Socialists, etc. (plus sane Conservatives like John Woodman) will go down in history as the true patriots, defending our founding documents and institutions from you.

    There were surely fleas on sabre-tooth tigers. Posterity is fascinated by the formidable graceful giant cats; nobody gives a rat’s ass about the fleas.

    Mr. Obama is the tiger. You are the fleas.

    Nobody important cares what you think. Most people on your side of the aisle think you are nut-cases who are giving them a bad reputation. Republican politicos will use waffle words to make you think they’re with you, but they’re not. They just need your vote. They know the President, and any future candidate who had one or more non-citizen parents are rightly and legally Natural Born Citizens eligible to run and serve if they were born Americans.

    Let’s say you, you personally, are disovered by your GP to have a dangerous but operaable tumor. You look up an oncologist; but alas, he is precisely as good a Doctor as Orly is a lawyer. He sits you down and tells you to go home and drink pomegranate juice, and explains that ‘cancer’ is a big hoax, a conspiracy foisted on the public by sneaky Socialist European drug companies.

    Do you say to yourself “well, that sounds reasonable”? Do you follow his advice?
    No you do not. You say “That guy’s a dangerous lunatic. I’m not trusting my life to him. I want a Doctor who works with reproducible science and objective facts.”

    Welcome to our world.

    The Courts are unanimously on our side. The hard evidence is on our side. Logic is on our side.

    Posterity will be too.

    So you should maybe re-think your ludicrous insults, your infantile slurs, your preposterous impossible hallucinatory conspiracies, your claims that we are deluded and you are the sacred patriotic vessels of the truth.

    You aren’t. You are insignificant morsels of oblivion.

  34. avatar
    Jamese777 May 25, 2012 at 12:02 am #

    Edward Schnur:
    The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen.This fact supercedes all questions about the location of his birth.The whole “birther” meme is merely obfucation and deflection in true Alinski fashion.The problem with the marxist and Alinski method is that prevarication is justified as the means to obtaining an end.This is in conflict with the Judeo-Christian heritage which believes in moral absolutes as opposed to moral relativism.The collectivism of the statists stands in stark contrast to the concept of individual exceptionalism.Christianity also emphasizes individual salvation.The marxists supplant theology, family and charity(love) with the bureaucracy of the central planners, whom they believe know better than the citizens how to direct society.Obama long ago went to the dark side of Alinski which explains his incessant inability to tell the truth about his intention to “fundamentally transform” America. Lieing about the circumstances of his birth is consistent with his overriding philosophy.The “constitutional” lawyer must have missed the day they discussed Article 2, Sec. 1, clause 5.Either that or…

    This idiot posting above thinks that Jerome Corsi wrote a book entitled “Where was your father born?” The title of Corsi’s book is “Where’s the BIRTH CERTIFICATE?”
    And know we all know where it is, in a safe inside the records division of the Hawaii Department of Health!
    Saul Alinski would not be a fan of Barack Hussein Obama as president. President Obama is much too cozy with Wall Street and bailing out bankers and major corporations to be an Alinsky-ite.
    Why just yesterday the President was at $35,000 a plate fundraisers with the corporate elite of Silicon Valley. Saul Alinsky is spinning in his grave!
    On the first day of the Obama administration, the Dow-Jones Industrial Average closed at
    7,949. Today it closed at 12,530. Alinsky would not be pleased!

  35. avatar
    John Reilly May 25, 2012 at 12:43 am #

    I liked John’s idea that Arizona law enforcement ought to link up with Hawaii law enforcement to seize the birth certificate.

    Last I saw, Steve McGarrett works for the Governor. So does Dano. The Governor of Hawaii, who saw President Obama as a baby in Hawaii, is not about to have one agency of the State of Hawaii invade another.

  36. avatar
    John Reilly May 25, 2012 at 12:48 am #

    I have not seen Misha respond to Ms. Schnur, so I will. References to Saul Alinski [sic] are a dog whistle to anti-Semites.

    And now Mr. Schnur is re-writing history. I guess some Jewish Democrat came over from Chicago to put up that billboard which said “Where’s the Birth Certifucate?” Crafty plan. I was taken in.

  37. avatar
    Sean May 25, 2012 at 12:58 am #

    Edward Schnur:
    The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact …

    I love that Alinski is the new generic boogie man. Right wing conspiracy theorists throw name this around as they do George Soros and Acorn like it’s supposed to make any sense.

    Maybe Glenn Beck isn’t the best person to listen to, Ed.

  38. avatar
    Sean May 25, 2012 at 1:02 am #

    Majority Will: “Book ‘em, Danno”

    Congrats, Majority Will. You just got quote of the day!

  39. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 25, 2012 at 1:14 am #

    John Reilly: Last I saw, Steve McGarrett works for the Governor. So does Dano. The Governor of Hawaii, who saw President Obama as a baby in Hawaii, is not about to have one agency of the State of Hawaii invade another.

    Actually the Governor doesn’t have state police to put on the case. Fiove-O was just a figment of the producer’s imagination……like a lot of what we see around here.

  40. avatar
    aarrgghh May 25, 2012 at 1:16 am #

    Sean: I love that Alinski is the new generic boogie man. Right wing conspiracy theorists throw name this around as they do George Soros and Acorn like it’s supposed to make any sense.

    evil genius emmanuel goldstein lex luthor saul alinsky single-handedly invented ridicule, which is kryptonite to real americans.

  41. avatar
    The Magic M May 25, 2012 at 4:03 am #

    Edward Schnur: The whole “birther” meme is merely obfucation and deflection in true Alinski fashion.

    So Orly Taitz, Jerome Corsi and Joseph Farah are actually Obots trying to mislead you poor little “patriots”? Whodathunkthat?

    Then again, you are free to join the Birfer Civil War, because the “BC forgery” peeps claim the two citizen parent theory is just a deflection from the “real” issue of Kenyan birth…

  42. avatar
    Majority Will May 25, 2012 at 5:53 am #

    Sean: Congrats, Majority Will. You just got quote of the day!

    :-D

  43. avatar
    dch May 25, 2012 at 8:07 am #

    John Says
    “If Sheriff Joe really wants to get his hands on Obama’s birth certificate…”

    Uh, he can go to the Hawaii DoH website and click a link. It is that simple.

  44. avatar
    The Magic M May 25, 2012 at 9:35 am #

    Sheriff Joe downloading something from the WH website? I guess he’s like the peeps at ORYR who, whenever someone posts a link to something refuting them, shout “don’t go there, it’s a virus”. Kinda oddly reminiscent of “Fahrenheit 451″. When truth is in a book, birthers make up reasons why it’s dangerous to read and put on their safety goggles.
    Talk about being “afraid of the truth”…

  45. avatar
    y_p_w May 25, 2012 at 9:48 am #

    CarlOrcas: Actually the Governor doesn’t have state police to put on the case. Fiove-O was just a figment of the producer’s imagination……like a lot of what we see around here.

    They actually do have a state police of some kind, but not general law enforcement.

    http://hawaii.gov/psd/law-enforcement
    http://hawaii.gov/psd/law-enforcement/narcotics-enforcement
    http://hawaii.gov/psd/law-enforcement/sheriffs-division
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Department_of_Public_Safety

    They’ve got a state narcotics enforcement division and a sheriff division. The former is pretty self explanatory, but the latter is a little bit different since it’s a sheriff’s dept at the state level. The closest it sounds to me is like the San Francisco Sheriff’s Dept, which handles all the civil enforcement functions as well as providing security in and around government buildings. The Hawaii DPS Sheriff Division is apparently tasked with doing things such as evictions at the statewide level.

    I think the Sheriff Division is probably also tasked with protecting the Hawaii Dept of Health as well as other state offices. They also provide protection details for the Gov and Lt. Gov. I’m a bit familiar with California’s system, where the CHP provides these duties in Sacramento as well as protective details for state executive officeholders. They wear black uniforms that look more like local police and not the more familiar khaki uniforms that CHP patrol officers wear. They were folded into the CHP from the former California State Police.

  46. avatar
    Rickey May 25, 2012 at 11:04 am #

    john:
    Once Hawaii Law Enforcement is inline, they can issue a search warrant and seize the birth certificate as part of the criminal investigation.

    No, they can’t.

    Law enforcement officials can’t issue search warrants. Only a judge with jurisdiction can issue a search warrant, and only if there is probable cause that a crime has been committed

    It’s in the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution, John. You know, that document which your birthers claim to revere but which you are so ignorant about?

  47. avatar
    Rickey May 25, 2012 at 11:13 am #

    Edward Schnur:
    The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen.This fact supercedes all questions about the location of his birth.The whole “birther” meme is merely obfucation and deflection in true Alinski fashion.The problem with the marxist and Alinski method is that prevarication is justified as the means to obtaining an end.This is in conflict with the Judeo-Christian heritage which believes in moral absolutes as opposed to moral relativism.The collectivism of the statists stands in stark contrast to the concept of individual exceptionalism.Christianity also emphasizes individual salvation.The marxists supplant theology, family and charity(love) with the bureaucracy of the central planners, whom they believe know better than the citizens how to direct society.Obama long ago went to the dark side of Alinski which explains his incessant inability to tell the truth about his intention to “fundamentally transform” America. Lieing about the circumstances of his birth is consistent with his overriding philosophy.The “constitutional” lawyer must have missed the day they discussed Article 2, Sec. 1, clause 5.Either that or…

    Wow. You birthers can’t even spell Alinsky correctly.

    It’s “supersede,” not “supercede.”

    It’s “obfuscation,” not “obfucation.”

    It’s “lying,” not “lieing.”

    You’re welcome.

  48. avatar
    1% Silver Nitrate May 25, 2012 at 11:14 am #

    Edward Schnur: The whole “birther” meme is merely obfucation and deflection in true Alinski fashion. The problem with the marxist and Alinski method is that prevarication is justified as the means to obtaining an end. This is in conflict with the Judeo-Christian heritage which believes in moral absolutes as opposed to moral relativism. The collectivism of the statists stands in stark contrast to the concept of individual exceptionalism. Christianity also emphasizes individual salvation.

    From “Saul Alinsky Wasn’t Who Newt Gingrich Thinks He Was,” by Michael Kazin, The New Republic, Jan. 25, 2012

    http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/100030/gingrich-alinsky-saul-newt-catholic-carolina

    Saul Alinsky often called himself a radical, but his career as a community organizer had thoroughly traditional foundations in grassroots democracy and institutional religion. Indeed, it was built with the active support and resources of key figures in the Roman Catholic Church. [snip]

    In the late 1930s, Alinsky launched his first project in the Back of the Yards, a multi-ethnic, working-class, mostly Catholic neighborhood on Chicago’s South Side. Bernard J. Sheil, the city’s auxiliary bishop, championed the new Back of the Yards Council and encouraged local priests and leading parishioners to take part. Sheil, founder of the Catholic Youth Organization, helped set up Alinsky’s network of local organizers—the non-profit Industrial Areas Foundation—and convinced financier Marshall Field III to bankroll it.

    During the 1940s and early 1950s, Alinsky worked closely with another influential priest, Monsignor John O’Grady, director of the National Conference of Catholic Charities. O’Grady liked Alinsky’s focus on mobilizing local people to help themselves and introduced the “radical” to a parish priest who was working with young Puerto Ricans in a poor neighborhood near the University of Chicago.

  49. avatar
    Montana May 25, 2012 at 11:36 am #

    The have the best short man on the case (talk about little man complex)!

    Lets be clear none of these Birther dullards have taken there “Birther Documents of facts, more like lies” and won a case in the “U.S. Courts”, maybe in their simple minds (if they have any) but not in our “U.S. Courts”, so unless Birthers/ teabaggers, whatever you want to be called, win a court case, we will continue to see as dullards, liars or racist or maybe all three. Deal with that baby!

    And enjoy voting for the Mitt, the first “Republican Anchor Baby”! Too Funny!

  50. avatar
    The Magic M May 25, 2012 at 11:41 am #

    1% Silver Nitrate: Alinsky’s focus on mobilizing local people to help themselves

    Why is that supposed to be a bad thing anyway? I never quite understood why RWNJ’s equate “community organizer” with “communist instigator”, apart from having many letters in common. Isn’t “less government, more ‘people for the people'” 100% GOP agenda? Isn’t “help people, and help people help themselves” 100% Christian agenda?

  51. avatar
    Thrifty May 25, 2012 at 11:51 am #

    I think I just became dumber for having read that.

    Edward Schnur:
    The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen… BLAH BLAH BLAH

  52. avatar
    Scientist May 25, 2012 at 11:56 am #

    The Magic M: I never quite understood why RWNJ’s equate “community organizer” with “communist instigator”,

    Yes, like a disorganized community is somehow a good thing. An organized community picks up trash, watches out for the elderly and disabled to make sure they aren’t victimized and finds worthwhile activities for the young people. A disorganized community is sort of like Somalia.

    When corporations organize, it’s called the Chamber of Commerce and the right applauds. When gun owners organize, it’s called the NRA and the right applauds. So why shouldn’t regular, ordinary people be organized too?

  53. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 25, 2012 at 12:33 pm #

    y_p_w: The actually do have a state police of some kind, but not general law enforcement.

    As I recall the Sheriff handles civil cases and mans the jails plus guarding some state buildings. No routine patrol. No responding to called for services, etc.

    All that stuff is handled at the county level.

  54. avatar
    JPotter May 25, 2012 at 12:44 pm #

    Scientist: Yes, like a disorganized community is somehow a good thing.

    To pile on, organizing pople to empower themselves and stick up for their rights, particularly against the government …. is exactly what the right tells themselves they are doing …. with the possible twist that wingers want to be islands and live in a fantasy of a government-less vacuum. See limited gov’t, libertarianism, sovcits, etc.

    You don’t think the issue is with who Alinsky was organizing, do ya? ;)

  55. avatar
    1% Silver Nitrate May 25, 2012 at 12:56 pm #

    JPotter: To pile on, organizing pople to empower themselves and stick up for their rights, particularly against the government …. is exactly what the right tells themselves they are doing …. with the possible twist that wingers want to be islands and live in a fantasy of a government-less vacuum. See limited gov’t, libertarianism, sovcits, etc.

    Some more of Kazin on Alinsky & Monsignor O’Grady:
    The two shared a strong critique of modern liberalism that would be congenial to many conservatives today: “…the New Deal was important, it was good…yet it carried an opposite side to the shield, in terms of a gravitation of power and the establishment of enormous bureaucracies which were evil.” Americans should turn, instead, wrote Alinsky, “to grass roots organization and decentralization.”

  56. avatar
    JPotter May 25, 2012 at 1:12 pm #

    1% Silver Nitrate: Americans should turn, instead, wrote Alinsky, “to grass roots organization and decentralization.”

    Almost sounds like a post-apocalyptic survival plan, doesn’t it? Them dang commies always want to decentralize everything! From the De-Central Committee on down.

  57. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 25, 2012 at 1:19 pm #

    JPotter: You don’t think the issue is with who Alinsky was organizing, do ya?

    Kinda makes you wonder how these folks would have responded to the trouble makers who organized that revolution thing 236 years ago.

  58. avatar
    BillTheCat May 25, 2012 at 1:42 pm #

    Edward Schnur: the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen

    the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen

    the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen

    the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen

    the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen

    BRAWWWK!

    Parroting the same line over and over doesn’t make it true.

    How is that theory working out for you in court? Eddy? Hello?

  59. avatar
    Daniel May 25, 2012 at 1:59 pm #

    Edward Schnur: The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen.

    This is where you lost. Everything else you wrote is irrelevant

  60. avatar
    jayHG May 25, 2012 at 2:18 pm #

    Thomas Brown: Listen up, Ed, Ike, John, et.al.:Posterity is always smarter than the currently alive. There was a huge struggle between abolitionists and pro-slavery forces. Abolitionists prevailed, but just barely. Today it is virtually unanimously believed that slavery was an abomination, and I can’t remember hearing anyone advocate for bringing it back.Posterity will record President Obama as either an average or good President, but certainly as legimately elected and Constitutionally eligible to serve. You all, on the other hand, will be remembered as delusional racist buffoons so desperate to damage BHO’s Presidency that you would squander valuable public resources on an idiotic and doomed partisan quasi-crusade, and for embarrasing your country’s allies and thrilling her detractors. You will not be remembered as defenders of the Constitution and the rule of law; you will be remembered as seditionists trying to thwart them.We, whom you deride as Obots, Koolade-drinkers, Traitors, Socialists, etc. (plus sane Conservatives like John Woodman) will go down in history as the true patriots, defending our founding documents and institutions from you.There were surely fleas on sabre-tooth tigers. Posterity is fascinated by the formidable graceful giant cats; nobody gives a rat’s ass about the fleas.Mr. Obama is the tiger. You are the fleas.Nobody important cares what you think. Most people on your side of the aisle think you are nut-cases who are giving them a bad reputation. Republican politicos will use waffle words to make you think they’re with you, but they’re not. They just need your vote. They know the President, and any future candidate who had one or more non-citizen parents are rightly and legally Natural Born Citizens eligible to run and serve if they were born Americans.Let’s say you, you personally, are disovered by your GP to have a dangerous but operaable tumor. You look up an oncologist; but alas, he is precisely as good a Doctor as Orly is a lawyer. He sits you down and tells you to go home and drink pomegranate juice, and explains that ‘cancer’ is a big hoax, a conspiracy foisted on the public by sneaky Socialist European drug companies.Do you say to yourself “well, that sounds reasonable”? Do you follow his advice?No you do not. You say “That guy’s a dangerous lunatic. I’m not trusting my life to him. I want a Doctor who works with reproducible science and objective facts.”Welcome to our world.The Courts are unanimously on our side. The hard evidence is on our side. Logic is on our side. Posterity will be too. So you should maybe re-think your ludicrous insults, your infantile slurs, your preposterous impossible hallucinatory conspiracies, your claims that we are deluded and you are the sacred patriotic vessels of the truth.You aren’t. You are insignificant morsels of oblivion.

    Thomas Brown…….can I be your friend???

    The sabre-tooth tiger/feas part of your post in particular made my day. Poor John, et al. will get this, but never admit it.

    Thank you and have a great long weekend!!!

  61. avatar
    JoZeppy May 25, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

    Edward Schnur: The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen.

    Amazing how every judge that has examined the issue disagrees….perhaps it’s not as much of a “fact” as you think?

    Edward Schnur: This fact supercedes all questions about the location of his birth.

    You keep using this word “fact” but clearly it doesn’t mean what you think it does….and if it doesn’t matter, why do you birthers keep harping on it?

    Edward Schnur: The whole “birther” meme is merely obfucation and deflection in true Alinski fashion. The problem with the marxist and Alinski method is that prevarication is justified as the means to obtaining an end.

    Perhaps you should at least learn to spell his name before you purport to know what the gentleman believed or wrote?

    Edward Schnur: This is in conflict with the Judeo-Christian heritage which believes in moral absolutes as opposed to moral relativism.

    I have no problem with absolutes. Try these on. There is not an iota of doubt that your defintion of Natural Born Citizen is absolutely wrong, and you have absolutely no chance of ever prevailing in court on the issue short of a constitutional amendment….not a whole lot of relativism there..

    Edward Schnur: The collectivism of the statists stands in stark contrast to the concept of individual exceptionalism. Christianity also emphasizes individual salvation. The marxists supplant theology, family and charity(love) with the bureaucracy of the central planners, whom they believe know better than the citizens how to direct society.

    Wow….1950s cold war talking points. The cold war is over. Has been for a very long time. Get over it. Those scare tacticts are pretty outdated.

    Edward Schnur: Obama long ago went to the dark side of Alinski which explains his incessant inability to tell the truth about his intention to “fundamentally transform” America.

    And long ago, Darth Cheney became a Dark Lord of the Sith….which explains his ability to shoot his friends in the face, and get them to appologize for getting in the way. And do you get paid for every time you mention Alinsky’s name?

    Edward Schnur: Lieing about the circumstances of his birth is consistent with his overriding philosophy.

    But you just said where he was born doesn’t matter, so why would he lie about it? And then not only tell the truth about what you believe really matters, but repeatedly mention it, and even publish it in a book? I suppose actually thinking your talking points to their logical concusions, and developing a cohesive, integrated theory isn’t a priority for you?

    Edward Schnur: The “constitutional” lawyer must have missed the day they discussed Article 2, Sec. 1, clause 5. Either that or…

    It wouldn’t surprise. I think the discussion in my ConLaw class on that section took less than a minute, so blink your eye, and you missed it. What is even more interesting is that not only did they not mention parents, or Vattel in the discussion, but the failed to mention Vattel even once over the entire ConLaw course. Funny, considering birthers would have you believe that Vattel is the cornerstone of the Constitution, you’d think he would come up quite a bit. Even more interesting is that every judge…you know, those people that have devoted their lives to interpeting the laws and constitutio of this country, have yet to ever adopt the birther definition of NBC. Perhaps they all missed that day too. I’m guessing your law school was much different. I mean obviously, since you know more than Obama, and every judge that has examined the question, you must be either on the faculty of Yale or Harvard, or perhaps a judge on the federal circuit. Either that or……..

  62. avatar
    nbc May 25, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

    Edward Schnur: This is in conflict with the Judeo-Christian heritage which believes in moral absolutes as opposed to moral relativism

    The problem is that while some Christians believe in moral absolutes, they have no true way of providing any methods as to how to determine such standards. ‘Thou shall not kill’ has been used and abused and morality has been more often imposed by ‘Church leaders’ rather than by the teachings, rejecting concepts of love and passion in favor of fear and ignorance.

    I find no problems in the realization that morality is something we define based on experience, evolving understanding, while maintaining a connection with the teachings that show us how we may want to apply our newly acquired knowledge. God has given us the ability to reason, to apply logic, to do research, to learn and to adapt. To suggest that He expects us to follow a strict interpretation of morality ignores how our understandings of morality is evolving all the time.

    No, absolute morality is an interesting theoretical concept of little practical value to us Christians.

  63. avatar
    nbc May 25, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

    Edward Schnur: The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen.

    Silly us. By applying logic and reason it is trivially easy to show that by virtue of birth on US soil, President Obama is a natural born citizen. We can cite precedents such as US v Wong Kim Ark or derived rulings that are spreading quickly across our Nation right now, taking notice of the Court’s ruling in Ankeny v Daniels and other similar rulings.
    It’s tough to argue that our President cannot be a natural born citizen, when such overwhelming data, fact and logic point to the exact opposite.

    But I do understand why some, misled by ignorance or bigotry, may believe otherwise. That’s too bad but not totally unexpected.

  64. avatar
    nbc May 25, 2012 at 3:23 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Kinda makes you wonder how these folks would have responded to the trouble makers who organized that revolution thing 236 years ago.

    They may have stood in front of the line shouting to have them convicted of treason. Such tools.. Easily manipulated because of their lack of critical thinking skills, an adherence to group thinking and generalities. We see it arise again with the Tea Party and it could destroy our Nation quite easily.

  65. avatar
    y_p_w May 25, 2012 at 5:10 pm #

    Rickey: No, they can’t.

    Law enforcement officials can’t issue search warrants. Only a judge with jurisdiction can issue a search warrant, and only if there is probable cause that a crime has been committed

    It’s in the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution, John. You know, that document which your birthers claim to revere but which you are so ignorant about?

    There is no law enforcement category to get a copy of a vital record or a verification in lieu of a certified copy in HRS 338-18. It think it might be covered under category 9 IF they could get a judge to sign off on a search warrant and IF they could persuade a Hawaii court to help enforce an out of state search warrant. For the former, they’re ticked off enough judges in Maricopa County (including getting one arrested to prevent a ruling from a hearing) that I’d be surprised if they could find a judge willing to help them with this little escapade.

    http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.htm

    (9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;

    I know in California there’s a category for law enforcement to directly request a copy of a full certified copy of a vital record. They don’t even require that the application be notarized for the identify of the requester as is required for any other category. However, birth records are public in California, and any person can request an “informational copy” as a reported did for Jon Huntsman Jr’s BC from San Mateo County.

  66. avatar
    Bob May 25, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

    The simple fact is that most Birthers have been taken for ride by smear merchants and miscreants but now, at this point, there aren’t any Birthers left who honestly have a question about Obama’s eligibility.

  67. avatar
    JD Reed May 25, 2012 at 6:53 pm #

    Rickey: No, they can’t.Law enforcement officials can’t issue search warrants. Only a judge with jurisdiction can issue a search warrant, and only if there is probable cause that a crime has been committed It’s in the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution, John. You know, that document which your birthers claim to revere but which you are so ignorant about?

    Ricky, your attempt to educate John though laudable will most likely fail. After all, it’s obvious his high school civics teacher failed years ago.

  68. avatar
    RetiredLawyer May 25, 2012 at 7:28 pm #

    nbc: The problem is that while some Christians believe in moral absolutes, they have no true way of providing any methods as to how to determine such standards. ‘Thou shall not kill’ has been used and abused and morality has been more often imposed by ‘Church leaders’ rather than by the teachings, rejecting concepts of love and passion in favor of fear and ignorance.

    I find no problems in the realization that morality is something we define based on experience, evolving understanding, while maintaining a connection with the teachings that show us how we may want to apply our newly acquired knowledge. God has given us the ability to reason, to apply logic, to do research, to learn and to adapt. To suggest that He expects us to follow a strict interpretation of morality ignores how our understandings of morality is evolving all the time.

    No, absolute morality is an interesting theoretical concept of little practical value to us Christians.

    Somewhat off topic, but, the quote is incorrect. The Hebrew is “Thou shalt not murder.” The Hebrew bible not only makes a major difference between “kill” and “murder” it also makes a difference between “abortion” and “kill’ and “murder”. Any perusal of the Hebrew Bible will show that not only is “kill” and “murder” different,but that the Bible commands “killing” in many situations.

    Further, Jewish practices have since Biblical times to now been pragmatic within the very broad outlines of Jewish life.

    In short, anyone who talks about “Judeo-Christian” anything is, almost always, merely trying to put a reactionary gloss on particular Christian theology.

  69. avatar
    nbc May 25, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

    RetiredLawyer: In short, anyone who talks about “Judeo-Christian” anything is, almost always, merely trying to put a reactionary gloss on particular Christian theology.

    That’s of course a major problem with religion, and with Christianity in particular as the translations of translations have resulted in many different versions of the Bible, even to the extent of what parts are included or not.

    I heard this morning on the radio how some ‘Christian’ religions are now teaching that prosperity is ‘God given’ and that those who remain poor have somehow offended the Lord.

    Such idiots.

  70. avatar
    Northland10 May 25, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

    Edward Schnur: This is in conflict with the Judeo-Christian heritage which believes in moral absolutes as opposed to moral relativism.

    I assume you are of the type that read the Bible looking to know moral absolutes. I read scripture to know God. As the quote our Bishop is fond of repeating, “we do not take the Bible literally, we take the Bible seriously.”

    Edward Schnur: The collectivism of the statists stands in stark contrast to the concept of individual exceptionalism. Christianity also emphasizes individual salvation.

    Yet, Jesus was in community with his disciples. The early church was based upon community (meal, liturgy, etc.). The church, in my opinion, is not about individual salvation, it is about a community with God.

    Can I assume you hated Boy Scouts because they had this annoying habit of working together in patrols and troops (various levels of collectivism)?

  71. avatar
    nbc May 25, 2012 at 8:08 pm #

    Northland10: I assume you are of the type that read the Bible looking to know moral absolutes. I read scripture to know God.

    There are some people who love to believe in the simplistic notion of absolutes. Not surprisingly this tendency coincides with conservatism and evangelism, both rely on fixed rules rather than requiring a person to use their own logic and reason.

    Some people are much comforted by the appearance of security they find in such rules, but such people are not very curious, easily manipulated and tend to be quite shallow in their interests and beliefs.

    Too bad that such poor qualities tend to correlate…

  72. avatar
    Randy May 25, 2012 at 8:59 pm #

    Thomas Brown: Listen up, Ed, Ike, John, et.al.:

    Posterity is always smarter than the currently alive.

    Posterity will record President Obama as either an average or good President, but certainly as legimately elected and Constitutionally eligible to serve.You all, on the other hand, will be remembered as delusional racist buffoons so desperate to damage BHO’s Presidency that you would squander valuable public resources on an idiotic and doomed partisan quasi-crusade, and for embarrasing your country’s allies and thrilling her detractors.You will not be remembered as defenders of the Constitution and the rule of law; you will be remembered as seditionists trying to thwart them.

    We, whom you deride as Obots, Koolade-drinkers, Traitors, Socialists, etc. (plus sane Conservatives like John Woodman) will go down in history as the true patriots, defending our founding documents and institutions from you.

    There were surely fleas on sabre-tooth tigers.Posterity is fascinated by the formidable graceful giant cats; nobody gives a rat’s ass about the fleas.

    Mr. Obama is the tiger.You are the flea……

    So you should maybe re-think your ludicrous insults, your infantile slurs, your preposterous impossible hallucinatory conspiracies, your claims that we are deluded and you are the sacred patriotic vessels of the truth.

    Thomas, thumbs up, John and Edward, you are are smoking the wrong stuff.

  73. avatar
    Thomas Brown May 25, 2012 at 9:57 pm #

    jayHG: Thomas Brown…….can I be your friend???

    The sabre-tooth tiger/feas part of your post in particular made my day.Poor John, et al. will get this, but never admit it.

    Thank you and have a great long weekend!!!

    So glad I gave a moment of glee.

    Right back atcha.

  74. avatar
    AnotherBird May 25, 2012 at 10:11 pm #

    The reality is some birthers want to make it out to a difference in political ideology. That is their new hiding place.

  75. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 25, 2012 at 10:52 pm #

    That’s very much a Pat Robertson-style comment.

    nbc: I heard this morning on the radio how some ‘Christian’ religions are now teaching that prosperity is ‘God given’ and that those who remain poor have somehow offended the Lord.

  76. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 25, 2012 at 11:15 pm #

    Both are correct.

    Rickey: It’s “supersede,” not “supercede.”

  77. avatar
    Rickey May 25, 2012 at 11:30 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Both are correct.

    The spell check feature here disagrees with that, but I’ll concede that many people spell it “supercede” and it has gained some acceptance.

  78. avatar
    GeorgetownJD May 25, 2012 at 11:47 pm #

    john:
    … Once Hawaii Law Enforcement is inline, they can issue a search warrant and seize the birth certificate .. .

    Uh, john, law enforcement does not issue search warrants. Courts do. And a certified copy of the birth certificate is good enough for any court so there is no need to “seize” it.

  79. avatar
    y_p_w May 25, 2012 at 11:48 pm #

    Rickey: The spell check feature here disagrees with that, but I’ll concede that many people spell it “supercede” and it has gained some acceptance.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supersede
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supercede

    Usage Discussion of SUPERCEDE

    Supercede has occurred as a spelling variant of supersede since the 17th century, and it is common in current published writing. It continues, however, to be widely regarded as an error.

  80. avatar
    misha May 26, 2012 at 12:03 am #

    I did not respond right away, because I found a communist under my bed, and have spent all this time in a dialectic conversation with him.

    Edward Schnur: The Obama apologists cannot overcome the simple fact that Obama is not and cannot be a natural born citizen.

    Unadulterated, unmitigated, crap.

    Edward Schnur: The whole “birther” meme is merely obfucation and deflection in true Alinski fashion.

    You never read one sentence, much less one paragraph, of Alinsky’s two books. I did. As John Reilly and I have noted in the past, that is a dog whistle to anti-Semites. Adelson ignored it when Newt McPherson Gingrich started that meme.

    If you want to know what life was like in the shadow of Chicago’s meatpacking plants, read Sinclair’s The Jungle.

    Edward Schnur: This is in conflict with the Judeo-Christian heritage which believes in moral absolutes as opposed to moral relativism.

    Don’t ever presume to instruct me about Judaism, or Jewish culture. We don’t have any absolutes, and never did. Twice a year, Golda Meir went to the US and the UK, on fund raising trips, when it was still Palestine. Each time she would come back with checks of ~$3M. That’s ~$34,512,750 in constant dollars. How did she do it? She slept with them.

    As RetiredLawyer noted, “In short, anyone who talks about “Judeo-Christian” anything is, almost always, merely trying to put a reactionary gloss on particular Christian theology.” That is correct, without any qualifications.

    Edward Schnur: Christianity also emphasizes individual salvation.

    Christianity believes in collective guilt. Christianity believes people are born with original sin, and the only way to expunge that original sin, is through baptism. Christianity believes people are born inherently bad; Judaism believes people are born inherently good.

    The Settlers and their politicians sound like evangelicals, because American evangelicals fund them. That’s where Bibi gets his messianic views. Money talks, and no one walks.

    Edward Schnur: The collectivism of the statists stands in stark contrast to the concept of individual exceptionalism. The marxists supplant theology, family and charity(love) with the bureaucracy of the central planners, whom they believe know better than the citizens how to direct society.

    You’ve never spent any time at a kibbutz. The kibbutzim are the foundation of Israel, are pure communism, and are a raucous democracy. I know; I’ve been there. Ben Gurion and Golda Meir were lifelong socialists. When Golda Meir first went to Palestine, she was a Marxist. Israel has the best pilots. How do they do it? They recruit from the kibbutzim, where they are taught from birth, to make correct instantaneous decisions.

    One more bit of advice: get a life.

  81. avatar
    John Reilly May 26, 2012 at 12:44 am #

    I am not an Obama apologist. However, he is a natural born citzen and was elected fair and square. He may be re-elected (although I’ll be voting for the other guy.) My belief that President Obama is a natural born citizen is based upon his birth in Hawaii and a plain reading of the Constitution, coupled with the fact that the folks charged with figuring this stuff out had no problem with his qualifications.

    In my expereince, Misha, Israeli pilots are pretty darn good. Some described their upbringing on kibbutzes (what is the plural?). I did not ask them if they were Communists. Officially, we were not supposed to get involved in Israeli politics. I suspect the quality of the pilots is related to their debating style of life and willingness to speak up to question just about anything. There is a substantial body of aviation research about pilots from cultures in Korea and in Holland who did not question poor decisions by the pilot.

  82. avatar
    Majority Will May 26, 2012 at 1:12 am #

    John Reilly: kibbutzes (what is the plural?)

    Kibbutzim (Hebrew: קיבוצים‎).

  83. avatar
    misha May 26, 2012 at 1:18 am #

    John Reilly: In my expereince, Misha, Israeli pilots are pretty darn good. Some described their upbringing on kibbutzes (what is the plural?).

    Kibbutzim. Kibbutz can be translated as either commune, or collective. I never went beyond a Cessna 152, VFR, low and slow. On instruments only, I had terrible vertigo, and did not want to become a statistic.

    A kibbutznik wants to meet a woman who would like life there. He places an ad in a newspaper: “Kibbutznik, mid-twenties, wants to meet a secular woman for marriage. If interested, send picture of your tractor.” [bada-bing]

    John Reilly: I did not ask them if they were Communists. Officially, we were not supposed to get involved in Israeli politics.

    Every kibbutznik I knew described himself as a socialist.

    1% Silver Nitrate: Indeed, it was built with the active support and resources of key figures in the Roman Catholic Church.

    I was the only Jewish member of SVdeP. We set up a house on Buffalo’s east side, where black children could get a good meal, help with their homework, and a refuge from what was around them.

    I tell people the Jesuits got hold of me when I was 17, and it stuck for life.

  84. avatar
    Majority Will May 26, 2012 at 1:24 am #

    nbc: I heard this morning on the radio how some ‘Christian’ religions are now teaching that prosperity is ‘God given’ and that those who remain poor have somehow offended the Lord.

    Such idiots.

    Is the very wealthy Rush Limbaugh their paragon of righteousness?

  85. avatar
    John Reilly May 26, 2012 at 1:27 am #

    Misha, the planes I flew crossed Israel from East to West in the blink of an eye. It makes you appreciate the strategic issues the Israelis face.