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Living with uncertainty

I think that on average I’m more comfortable with uncertainty than others. People were glued to the TV screens for weeks during the O. J. Simpson trial, and just recently there has been continuous coverage of the Boston Marathon bombing. I want to know what’s happening, but beyond that I’d rather wait a few months and see how it turns out rather than watch every detail unfold, grab onto every detail, and make up my mind prematurely.  I’m content to watch the PBS News Hour every few days to keep up. Was Obama a good or a bad President? Historians should have that worked out in 30-40 years.

One way to stay on the bleeding edge of what’s being said is Twitter, and it is a fake Twitter post last week that sparked my thinking about this topic. Here’s the tweet from a hacked Associated Press account (courtesy of the Huffington Post):

0423aphacked

Going back to the Boston Marathon bombings, I recall that there were false news reports about the number of bombs (3 vs 2) and that a Saudi subject had been detained. Rushing to know and rushing to judge can lead to mistakes.

The Obama conspiracy manipulators use anxiety about uncertainty as a tool, emphasizing what is not known (true or not) about President Obama. Personally, I’d be content to wait 10-15 years when the Obama Presidential Library opens, to see his birth certificate and maybe his college transcripts. And if I don’t make it that long, no big loss. Life is full of unknowns and I’m comfortable with that.

There’s a great book by Bruce Schneier, Beyond Fear: Thinking Sensibly About Security in an Uncertain World, that I heartily recommend.

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56 Responses to Living with uncertainty

  1. avatar
    ellen April 29, 2013 at 11:05 am #

    It is extremely charitable to birthers to say that they stress the unknowns. That’s not all that they do. They do considerably more than that. They contribute their own lies to the mix, such as the lie that Obama’s Kenyan grandmother said that he was born in Kenya—when the transcript shows that she said repeatedly that he was born in Hawaii. Then, of course, there are the forged “Kenyan birth certificates.”

    It is true that there are some birthers who are simply gullible enough to believe such lies, such as those who continue to believe the April Fool’s story that Obama was registered as a foreign student.

    But in my opinion the lies are worse than the gullibility. And, as I said, they have motives.

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 29, 2013 at 1:36 pm #

    I would certainly agree, and not all birthers are created equal. In my opinion the quintessential true believer is Phil Berg, who interprets the “grandmother tape” according to his conspiracy beliefs — that the clear denial of Obama being born in Kenya is the relatives jumping in to change the story after granny had spilled the beans. It is accepting authoritativeness of the ambiguous while explaining away the plain that these true believers weave into their strange view of reality.

    While I would say that publishing the edited form of the grandmother tape is (to put it as kindly as I can) intellectually dishonest, they would say that the editing includes the truth and removes attempts to cover it up.

    ellen: But in my opinion the lies are worse than the gullibility. And, as I said, they have motives.

  3. avatar
    ben April 29, 2013 at 1:52 pm #

    Doc you did not mention the most brainless of birthers ORLY. Throughout the aftermath of Boston bombing she has turned her attention to this event whipping out outright lies & conspiracies, pulling & posting virtual crap from fringe tabloids.

  4. avatar
    MN-Skeptic April 29, 2013 at 2:26 pm #

    The wonderful thing about all the changing facts coming out, is that the conspiracy theorists can latch onto whichever facts fit into their world view. A Saudi bomber? Of course that’s true! The Saudi bomber being the son of Osama bin Laden? Of course! The folks at Free Republic will willingly tell you which facts are true and which ones are now being covered up as part of the grand Soros – Communist – Islamic plot to destroy America!

  5. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 29, 2013 at 3:09 pm #

    ben:
    Doc you did not mention the most brainless of birthers ORLY.Throughout the aftermath of Boston bombing she has turned her attention to this event whipping out outright lies & conspiracies, pulling & posting virtual crap from fringe tabloids.

    Orly is a special brand of birther, she’s evil to the core.
    Her, that guy who posts as “Falcon” on ORYR and the guy who runs “Conservative Monster” are probably the worst of the worst in my opinion.

  6. avatar
    Deborah April 29, 2013 at 3:16 pm #

    News goes through phases, something like this: first it is reported in short on t.v. and radio, within the next days and weeks there will be an articles in the newspaper, in a month or so there will be an hour discussion on media such as 20/20, 60 Minutes, etc., within six months there might be an in-depth documentary, then the issue gets analysis in academic or scholarly journals and books maybe a year or two or three down the road.

  7. avatar
    ellen April 29, 2013 at 3:20 pm #

    Re: “While I would say that publishing the edited form of the grandmother tape is (to put it as kindly as I can) intellectually dishonest, they would say that the editing includes the truth and removes attempts to cover it up.”

    How about the forged “Kenyan birth certificates?”

  8. avatar
    Deborah April 29, 2013 at 3:20 pm #

    Andrew Vrba is a celebrity over at Orly’s and has actually received a posting of one of his comments.

    One thing I gotta say about friendship, and how this issue is tearing friendships apart, is that I am really really glad that in real life I had ONE friend who, when the discussion of Obama came up, she stood firm in her conviction that the Obama haters are either religious bigots or racists like the Ku Klux Klan. This prompted me to research the matter objectively, looking at the claims from both sides. If it wasn’t for that ONE friend, I’d still be deluded about the matter today.

  9. avatar
    Deborah April 29, 2013 at 3:35 pm #

    This is for the video section- I don’t know how to post it there. This is Spielberg’s Obama. At least the actor playing Obama is a good replica. This was posted on Orly’s site.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZyU213nhrh0#!

  10. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 29, 2013 at 3:40 pm #

    She actually called my home once a couple years back, in some laughable attempt at scaring me into being quiet. I stifled my laughter for as long as I could, and explained to her that she was incredibly easy to manipulate. When she got extra huffy, I could no longer hold the laughter back. You know the term “having a face for radio”? Well she has a voice for silent films.
    Something about hearing her on a phone brings out that screech owl quality in her voice.

    Occasionally I’d post things that I know will make her feel extremely paranoid. Ask or say things that a rational person would instantly dismiss as weak-sauce trolling, but an unbalanced nut like her would take seriously.

  11. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 29, 2013 at 4:32 pm #

    Yes, I noticed that.

    ben: Doc you did not mention the most brainless of birthers ORLY. Throughout the aftermath of Boston bombing she has turned her attention to this event whipping out outright lies & conspiracies, pulling & posting virtual crap from fringe tabloid

  12. avatar
    Crustacean April 29, 2013 at 5:31 pm #

    Doc: “I’d rather wait a few months and see how it turns out rather than watch every detail unfold, grab onto every detail, and make up my mind prematurely.”

    I’m guessing you’re not a card-carrying member of the Glenn Beck fan club.

    Doc: “…Obama Presidential Library… see his birth certificate and maybe his college transcripts…”

    I take it you were joking here, but serious question: do you think there will be any mention of “the birther movement” in the Obama Library some day? I think it’s relevant, so why not have something there?

    Heck, Bush’s Library has a “Decision Points Theater” with fancy interactive screens. Obama’s should have a “Birther Points Theater” complete with Animatronic Orly, and maybe a “Donald Trump: Lying, Misinformed, or Just Plain Crazy?” interactive game.

  13. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 29, 2013 at 5:42 pm #

    Crustacean:
    Heck, Bush’s Library has a “Decision Points Theater” with fancy interactive screens.Obama’s should have a “Birther Points Theater” complete with Animatronic Orly, and maybe a “Donald Trump: Lying, Misinformed, or Just Plain Crazy?” interactive game.

    Interactive game? That bunch isn’t worthy of a lewd scribbling in one of the library’s bathroom stalls…well maybe one of those! But Yoda gets to write it!

  14. avatar
    Crustacean April 29, 2013 at 6:15 pm #

    Point well taken, Andrew. I know you’re referring to the Yoda who comments here, but the thought of a “lewd scribbing” by the Star Wars character cracks me up:

    “(Bleep) or (bleep) not. There is no (bleep)”

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Interactive game? That bunch isn’t worthy of a lewd scribbling in one of the library’s bathroom stalls…well maybe one of those! But Yoda gets to write it!

  15. avatar
    scott e April 29, 2013 at 7:53 pm #

    remember benghazi… there, is the secret to your relative uncertainty, my most worthy adversary.

  16. avatar
    jayHG April 29, 2013 at 10:53 pm #

    Are there college transcripts in any current presidential libraries? Birth certificates????

  17. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater April 29, 2013 at 11:13 pm #

    scott e:
    remember benghazi… there, is the secret to your relative uncertainty, my most worthy adversary.

    Remember the multiple embassy attacks we’ve had under different presidents that you cared nothing about.

  18. avatar
    nbc April 29, 2013 at 11:17 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Remember the multiple embassy attacks we’ve had under different presidents that you cared nothing about.

    ROTFL…

  19. avatar
    Scientist April 30, 2013 at 6:29 am #

    jayHG: Are there college transcripts in any current presidential libraries? Birth certificates????

    I’m pretty sure I have seen FDR’s Harvard grades (mostly gentleman’s Cs) at Hyde Park. I don’t recall a birth certificate, though the tour points out the actual room in which the birth occurred. New York only instituted birth certificates in 1881 (FDR was born in January 1882) and the State Archives notes that compliance was incomplete until 1913 http://www.archives.nysed.gov/a/research/res_topics_gen_vitalstats.shtml. So it’s quite possible he never had one. Yet he served 3 terms and part of a 4th.

    The proto-birthers of his day claimed not that he was born outside the US or that his parents were not citizens, but that they were Jewish (they were Dutch Reformed Protestants, as were all the old families in the Hudson Valley). That would supposedly have disqualified him in some people’s eyes (including our friend AR Nash into the present).

  20. avatar
    The Magic M April 30, 2013 at 6:56 am #

    Scientist: That would supposedly have disqualified him in some people’s eyes

    I bet for most of them it was enough to have something to portrait as “bad” about him and have that influence the elections, just like a large number of pseudo-birthers today. Were there really people who thought Jewish parents legally disqualified FDR?

  21. avatar
    Scientist April 30, 2013 at 8:04 am #

    The Magic M: Were there really people who thought Jewish parents legally disqualified FDR?

    Our pal AR Nash says, even in 2013, that the President must be Protestant because the Founders wanted that (though there were a couple of Catholic Founders from Maryland, which was established as a Catholic colony)-also that he be white and of course male and educated (though George Washington never went to college) and own property. But, obviously, it’s hard to imagine any court imposing a religious test in view of the constitutional prohibition of such.

    Calling FDR a Jew is more along the lines of calling Obama a Muslim, though at least Obama does have actual Muslims among his ancestors and there is no evidence there were any Jewish Roosevelts ever.

  22. avatar
    Fred Flintstone April 30, 2013 at 8:28 am #

    Orly Taitz is absolutely nuts. Nucking Futs.

    SHe cloaks herself as a civil rights attorney while engaging in the biggest scam for money – every post claims she’s working pro bono when she has never released a financial statement for her “foundation.” She screeches about a corrupt legal system and then encourages others to protest with violence when she gets laughed out of court. She berates judges and then stands before them in her foundation paid for wardrobe and expects sympathy. She is like the Jehovah Witnesses – she revels in slammed doors. She is from the same area geographically that produced the Boston Bombers and she called Obama a “black liar” (her words not mine). She’s racist, she’s a conspiracy nut and why hasn’t the California Bar disbarred her or declared her as a vexatious litigant. Notice that since Hawaii has filed that charge, she has left them alone. Her references to Nazi Germany, which she was never affected by in her privileged life, is laughable. Her chief supporter is Rev. David James Manning, whose real name is David Lawrence Manning who is a convicted felon, who broke into homes up and down the East coast and abandoned his first wife and children, who have nothing to do with him. Tanks for letting me vent. I’m tired of this taxpayer costly charade.

  23. avatar
    Majority Will April 30, 2013 at 8:31 am #

    Scientist: and there is no evidence there were any Jewish Roosevelts ever.

    I guess that depends on the definition of ever? 😉

  24. avatar
    The Magic M April 30, 2013 at 9:20 am #

    Scientist: that the President must be Protestant because the Founders wanted that

    Reminds me of that Simpsons episode (“Marge vs. the Monorail”) where the mayor and Chief Wiggum dig out the old town charter and Wiggum discovers he has the right to a pig every month. That’s precisely how I envision these “let’s see what the Founders wanted, dig out more old records” people.

  25. avatar
    Scientist April 30, 2013 at 9:33 am #

    The Magic M: That’s precisely how I envision these “let’s see what the Founders wanted, dig out more old records” people.

    The desires of one or another Founder not written into law are frankly irrelevant. Even for things written into the Constitution, I have problems with the entire originalism doctrine. The Constitution itself never says that the original meaning must prevail for millennia to come. So the doctrine is really extra-constitutional.

  26. avatar
    The Magic M April 30, 2013 at 10:39 am #

    Scientist: Even for things written into the Constitution, I have problems with the entire originalism doctrine.

    As I’ve written before, I think it depends.

    Pure originalism is dumb (because it would mean the 2nd Amendment covers owning nuclear weapons since the Founders obviously had “the best defense against foreign and domestic enemies” in mind), but so is a pure “living Constitution” reading.
    For example, “marriage” may change in its details (whether it’s between man and woman or also includes same-sex couples), but if you start reading it as “any loose affiliation of people” simply because society has moved in that direction, it may become dangerous – especially if the modern reading does not create “additional” rights but takes existing ones away.
    If, in 200 years, “arms” has changed to mean “cutlery”, does that mean the government can take your guns because they are no longer covered by a “living Constitution” reading?

  27. avatar
    JD Reed April 30, 2013 at 11:03 am #

    Scientist: Our pal AR Nash says, even in 2013, that the President must be Protestant because the Founders wanted that (though there were a couple of Catholic Founders from Maryland, which was established as a Catholic colony)-also that he be white and of course male and educated (though George Washington never went to college) and own property.But, obviously, it’s hard to imagine any court imposing a religious test in view of the constitutional prohibition of such.

    Calling FDR a Jew is more along the lines of calling Obama a Muslim, though at least Obama does have actual Muslims among his ancestors and there is no evidence there were any Jewish Roosevelts ever.

    Actually, according to genealogical scholars, we are the desendants of everyone who lived millenia ago and whose line of descent did not become extinct.
    Thus we are literally, to take these scholars’ word, the offspring of Abraham, as well as metaphorically. For the hate-Muslims crowd, the genealogists also tell us that any European American living today is also almost certainly a descendant of the Prophet Mohammed. The way this came about is that Mohammed’s descendants migrated across North Africa and eventually into Spain (the Moors), where a Mohammed descendant married into royalty, which intermarried with other European royalty including English. And these scholars say, anyone whose ancestry for the last thousand years is European is almost certainly a descendant of English royalty.

  28. avatar
    Sef April 30, 2013 at 11:09 am #

    JD Reed: And these scholars say, anyone whose ancestry for the last thousand years is European is almost certainly a descendant of English royalty.

    Even if you’re a “Proud Neanderthal”?

  29. avatar
    Majority Will April 30, 2013 at 11:18 am #

    Paleoanthropology consistently shows the human species originating from eastern and southern Africa and not far from Kenya. How’s that for birther bigot irony?

  30. avatar
    Scientist April 30, 2013 at 11:28 am #

    Here is a great comment from a Dutch anti-monarchist on the occasion of Queen Beatrix abdicating in favor of her son:

    On Tuesday, an anti-monarchist activist, Hans Maessan, stood alone in Dam Square waving a sign: “No Monarchy, More Democracy.” Instead of wearing orange like everyone around him, he wore a white shirt bearing the words “I Don’t Want Him.” He conceded that the balance of opinion was running against his cause but said that even republicans liked a good party.

    “We want to make the party better,” he said. “Monarchy is a fairy tale, but the real fairy tale is that Barack Obama can become president of the United States. That is the fairy tale of democracy.” He predicted that Willem-Alexander would be “the last Dutch king.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/01/world/europe/queen-beatrix-to-abdicate-in-the-netherlands.html?pagewanted=2&hp

    It’s truly odd that the birthers claim that the anti-monarchist US founders would support a monarchical inheritance of citizenship and special classes thereof.

  31. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 30, 2013 at 1:33 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Orly is a special brand of birther, she’s evil to the core.Her, that guy who posts as “Falcon” on ORYR and the guy who runs “Conservative Monster” are probably the worst of the worst in my opinion.

    That guy “Falcon” worries me…he is so angry, he might get finally filled with hatred, anger, and despair, that he might go out and kill innocent people.

    That’s my biggest worry about these birthers…that they “snap.”

  32. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 30, 2013 at 1:38 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: She actually called my home once a couple years back, in some laughable attempt at scaring me into being quiet. I stifled my laughter for as long as I could, and explained to her that she was incredibly easy to manipulate. When she got extra huffy, I could no longer hold the laughter back. You know the term “having a face for radio”? Well she has a voice for silent films.Something about hearing her on a phone brings out that screech owl quality in her voice.Occasionally I’d post things that I know will make her feel extremely paranoid. Ask or say things that a rational person would instantly dismiss as weak-sauce trolling, but an unbalanced nut like her would take seriously.

    You know, if she called you at home, trying to harass you, you could have filed a complaint against her.

    How did she get your number, and how did the call come out?

  33. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 30, 2013 at 1:40 pm #

    Scientist: I’m pretty sure I have seen FDR’s Harvard grades (mostly gentleman’s Cs) at Hyde Park. I don’t recall a birth certificate, though the tour points out the actual room in which the birth occurred. New York only instituted birth certificates in 1881 (FDR was born in January 1882) and the State Archives notes that compliance was incomplete until 1913 http://www.archives.nysed.gov/a/research/res_topics_gen_vitalstats.shtml. So it’s quite possible he never had one. Yet he served 3 terms and part of a 4th.The proto-birthers of his day claimed not that he was born outside the US or that his parents were not citizens, but that they were Jewish (they were Dutch Reformed Protestants, as were all the old families in the Hudson Valley). That would supposedly have disqualified him in some people’s eyes (including our friend AR Nash into the present).

    The anti-Semitic attacks on FDR were the least of them…he was also accused of being a syphlitic, and Eleanor of being a mulatto. A lot of that stuff was repeated by Nazi propaganda on their English-language radio services, which led to Douglas Chandler, Midge Gillars, and Donald Day drawing lengthy prison terms in their postwar treason trials.

  34. avatar
    misha marinsky April 30, 2013 at 2:04 pm #

    Kiwiwriter: A lot of that stuff was repeated by Nazi propaganda on their English-language radio services, which led to Douglas Chandler, Midge Gillars, and Donald Day drawing lengthy prison terms in their postwar treason trials.

    Don’t forget Ezra Pound, who got off with a sentence to St. Elizabeth’s, as did Hinckley.

    Pound is a poseur, and went back to live in Italy.

  35. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 30, 2013 at 2:23 pm #

    I don’t know what sparked this “co2 offset trader” discussion, but probing into the personal information of private citizens is absolutely forbidden on this web site.

    Violators will be banned.

  36. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 30, 2013 at 2:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t know what sparked this “co2 offset trader” discussion, but probing into the personal information of private citizens is absolutely forbidden on this web site.

    Violators will be banned.

    Sorry Doc,

    The name came up in response to “Kevin”, as I recall, and his claim about some sort of conspiracy.

    In any case the records are public in Arizona and accessible by anyone with no privilege or privacy attached to them.

  37. avatar
    Butterfly Bilderberg April 30, 2013 at 2:47 pm #

    Kevin: The US Treasury person who frequently posts, at the fogbow has a connection to the referenced company.Did this company receive funds from Obama?

    Huh? What are you refering to? What person? What company? Fogbow does not have any connections to companies. Its funding is provided by voluntary donations.

  38. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 30, 2013 at 2:55 pm #

    They will not be accessible by any one looking on this web site. If someone wants to go prying into private folks information, they will do it without any help here.

    End of discussion.

    CarlOrcas: In any case the records are public in Arizona and accessible by anyone with no privilege or privacy attached to them.

  39. avatar
    Butterfly Bilderberg April 30, 2013 at 3:02 pm #

    Point well taken, Doc.

    Regardless of their feeble attempts at “research” birthers tend to see connections that don’t exist.

  40. avatar
    Deborah April 30, 2013 at 5:02 pm #

    Fred Flintstone April 30, 2013 at 8:28 am (Quote) #

    Orly Taitz is absolutely nuts. Nucking Futs.

    Fred, could I get your permission to post your comment on my FB page? I couldn’t have said it better. Orly proves that money can’t buy sanity. I am not so certain all the funding comes from supporters. She doesn’t have that many. I think much of her funding comes from her mysterious, un-named husband who evidently doesn’t care what her politics are as long as they are HOT.

  41. avatar
    Fred Flintstone April 30, 2013 at 5:17 pm #

    Deborah: Fred, could I get your permission to post your comment on my FB page? I couldn’t have said it better. Orly proves that money can’t buy sanity. I am not so certain all the funding comes from supporters. She doesn’t have that many. I think much of her funding comes from her mysterious, un-named husband who evidently doesn’t care what her politics are as long as they are HOT

    Yes you can.

  42. avatar
    Deborah April 30, 2013 at 9:13 pm #

    JD Reed April 30, 2013 at 11:03 am (Quote) #

    For the hate-Muslims crowd, the genealogists also tell us that any European American living today is also almost certainly a descendant of the Prophet Mohammed.

    The sole purpose of Christianity was to reform the Judaic religion and rebuke the literature of the militant Judaic priests who wrote the Torah (a.k.a. the Old Testament). Judaism, Christianity and Islam, which came long after both, do not actually have much to do with one another.

    The Jewish priests wrote many evil things about the nature of God. Jesus came to rebuke their literature. Previously, Socrates did the same thing when he censored the Greek literature of Homer and Hesiod which depicted the “gods” as engaging in rape, incest, etc. in other words, Socrates condemned Greek religious literature,and Jesus condemned Judaic literature. Most importantly Socrates rebuked the impact of this literature on Greek social relations. Jesus rebuked the impact of Judaic literature on Gentile (non-Jew) societal relations.

    Long after Greek, Judaic, and Christian literature came onto the world stage, illiterate Mohammed enviously attempts to imitate religious literature and create his own national religion and literature. We-the-barbary-pirates-feel-left-out-on-the-world-stage-because-every-other-nation-has-a-Navy-and-we-wannabe-important-too -boo-hoo!

    Mohammed could read but he could not write. The Qur’an was written by scribes. In his desperate effort to be included on the world stage, Mohammed attempts to legitimize his newly created religion by creating a link between the rebuked literature of Israel (by Jesus) and his Middle East countries via Abraham’s wife, Sarah, and concubine, Hagar. According to Johnny-come-lately Mohammed, Israel and the Middle East are “brothers.” The modern-day Muslim Brotherhood is created as a result.

    Jesus and Mohammed have one thing in common: neither one of them left an off-spring, an heir, or a figurehead to carry on their legacy.

    Without a head, there is no body.

    Jesus is said to have appointed the apostle Peter to carry on his legacy. This is where the Catholics assume the formerly Jewish priesthood. But it is difficult, if not impossible, to historically to locate the apostle Peter assuming the role of a Pope.

    The office of Pope was not official until the Roman Emperor Constantine declared Christianity the official religion. This act of Constantine initiated the descendancy of Popes. By declaring Christianity as the official religion, East Roman Emperor Constantine merged the church and state.

    It is implausible to consider Mohammed a prophet of Israel for the simple reason that Mohammed’s scribes could only write in Arabic, not Hebrew. This is the equivalent of the Roman Catholic church claiming that God intended for Mexicans to be Catholic even though God could not produce a Spanish Bible.

  43. avatar
    scott e April 30, 2013 at 11:40 pm #

    hey bill, great show tonight !…

  44. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 12:40 am #

    I have said for years that denial of Obama is rooted in race and that he has an Arabic name. I have also said that Orly and Berg believe Obama is bad for Israel, and that motivates them. Orly has the trifecta: Arabs, Muslims and Africans. Orly’s sympathies lie with Settlers, and she is a fascist like the Settlers.

    Here it is: “…when a Ta’ayush activist named Guy interrupted the [Israeli] soldier as he was shouting at a [Arab] shepherd, the reservist turned to Guy’s camera and screamed, “Get out of here, you Israel haters!” After threatening to hit the activist, he added, “You are worse than the Arabs!” The [Israeli] officer then shouted at a female Israeli activist, “Shut up, Israel hater who goes to bed with Arabs!”

    http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/30/critics-of-israels-west-bank-occupation-say-calm-before-new-violence-was-an-illusion/

  45. avatar
    Lani May 1, 2013 at 4:06 am #

    Deborah:
    JD Reed April 30, 2013 at 11:03 am(Quote) #

    Jesus and Mohammed have one thing in common: neither one of them left an off-spring, an heir, or a figurehead to carry on their legacy.

    Muhammad had several children, but outlived all but one. There is a dispute as to which of them were his offspring and which were stepchildren. He also had grandsons, the children of Fatima and Ali.

  46. avatar
    Keith May 1, 2013 at 6:05 am #

    Lani: Deborah:
    JD Reed April 30, 2013 at 11:03 am(Quote) #

    Jesus and Mohammed have one thing in common: neither one of them left an off-spring, an heir, or a figurehead to carry on their legacy.

    Muhammad had several children, but outlived all but one. There is a dispute as to which of them were his offspring and which were stepchildren. He also had grandsons, the children of Fatima and Ali.

    There is also a tradition that Jesus left at least one son, who went with Mary (the one know as ‘the Magdalene’) to France and founded the Merovingian line of Kings. This is more than a Dan Brown ‘plot point’, it is an actual folk tradition.

    The likelihood may well be extremely low, however, but there is enough circumstantial evidence that it cannot be ruled out altogether. A fascinating idea, but ultimately pointless.

  47. avatar
    scott e May 1, 2013 at 10:21 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Remember the multiple embassy attacks we’ve had under different presidents that you cared nothing about.

    if there was a coverup, congress had an equal opportunity to ask the right questions.

    you are presuming “what i care about”.. you don’t really know me mw.. only from here…

  48. avatar
    Majority Will May 1, 2013 at 10:41 am #

    Keith: There is also a tradition that Jesus left at least one son, who went with Mary (the one know as ‘the Magdalene’) to France and founded the Merovingian line of Kings. This is more than a Dan Brown ‘plot point’, it is an actual folk tradition.

    The likelihood may well be extremely low, however, but there is enough circumstantial evidence that it cannot be ruled out altogether.A fascinating idea, but ultimately pointless.

    No signature from the attending physician? 😉

  49. avatar
    Rickey May 1, 2013 at 10:50 am #

    scott e: remember benghazi… there, is the secret to your relative uncertainty, my most worthy adversary.

    Oh, please. You Obama haters are desperately trying to concoct a scandal where none exists.

  50. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG May 1, 2013 at 2:23 pm #

    scott e:
    remember benghazi… there, is the secret to your relative uncertainty, my most worthy adversary.

    I’ve heard better comic book villain dialog on Superfriends.
    Like the really lame Superfriends, with the two kids and the dog.

  51. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater May 1, 2013 at 7:48 pm #

    scott e:
    hey bill, great show tonight !…

    Why do you keep calling him Bill, Scotty dont?

  52. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater May 1, 2013 at 7:49 pm #

    scott e: if there was a coverup, congress had an equal opportunity to ask the right questions.

    you are presuming “what i care about”.. you don’t really know me mw.. only from here…

    Tell me Scotty what do you remember of the hearings regarding the bombings of the marine barracks in Beirut? Did Reagan immediately get blamed and accused of a coverup in congressional hearings? You assume there was a cover up. No I know what you don’t care about last time I asked you this question on air Scotty you changed the subject as you always do.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 2, 2013 at 12:51 am #

    The Torah is only the 5 books attributed to Moses.

    Deborah: Torah (a.k.a. the Old Testament).

  54. avatar
    misha marinsky May 2, 2013 at 2:08 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The Torah is only the 5 books attributed to Moses.

    It was an early condensed books effort by the Readers Digest. It was 6 books condensed down to 5. I don’t know if they had a deadline.

  55. avatar
    Majority Will May 2, 2013 at 2:36 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The Torah is only the 5 books attributed to Moses.

    Why Moses had only Ten Commandments:
    http://youtu.be/4TAtRCJIqnk

  56. avatar
    J.D. Sue May 2, 2013 at 4:09 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The Torah is only the 5 books attributed to Moses.
    Deborah: Torah (a.k.a. the Old Testament).

    Thank you. I’ve been reluctant to respond to the underlying comment, because the subject isn’t simple nor meaningless to me, and this forum isn’t suited for treating the subject in depth. But I will say this: In all the years I have studied with Christians well-acquainted with Tanach (aka the Old Testament), I have never heard it suggested that Jesus rebuked any part of Tanach or considered any of it evil. And from my readings of the New Testament, I see no such rebuke; to the contrary. Moreover, to conclude that the New Testament didn’t have much to do with Tanach is to not understand the New Testament (or Tenach). (It’s kind of like concluding that early American law didn’t have much to do with English common law). I know a lot less about Muhammad and Islam. But I would find nothing odd about him saying that Israel is the brother/cousin of many other tribes throughout the Middle East, when Torah says that Abraham and his brethren were Mesopotamian, and that Abraham’s several sons (through Sarah, Hagar, and Keturah) and his numerous grandsons fathered many many tribes. Finally, I have never heard it suggested that Muhammad was a prophet of Israel; a prophet of the line of Abraham, yes, of the line of Israel, no. Israel refers only to the tribes of the line of one of Abraham’s grandsons, Israel (a.k.a Jacob). Sheesh…