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The Antichrist? Really?

One in four Americans think Obama may be the Antichrist, survey says.

According to a poll released by opinion researchers Public Policy Polling, that’s exactly what they say (13% say he is and 13% aren’t sure).

In popular Christian mythology (and I say mythology because modern evangelical Christian beliefs about the “The Antichrist” really aren’t based on their sacred texts1, but more on modern urban legends and books like the Left Behind™ series),  the Antichrist is a charismatic person with Satanic power who will fool lots of people, and will precipitate the final violent confrontation between good and evil, an apocalyptic battle in which a significant percentage of humanity will die. Historically, pretty much any leader worth his salt has been called the Antichrist by somebody, and significant percentages of humanity do die from time to time.

President Obama is charismatic, and North Korea is rattling the nuclear sabre, so I suppose some folks are getting jumpy about now. Paradoxically, the “popular” Antichrist can be anyone who promotes world peace or anyone who works against world peace. It can be a loved person or a hated person. It works like a conspiracy theory where evidence against the theory is proof of how well it’s working.

Barack Obama will only be President a little less than 4 more years. Most Presidents retreat into obscurity after leaving office. If that is the case with Obama, the Antichrist seekers will move on to a more visible figure. If he becomes Secretary General of the UN, look out.

What I wonder though is how society functions, how the food gets grown and packaged, firemen put out fires, and Amazon.com get the book I ordered delivered on time, when significant portions of the US population believe in alien abductions, global New World Order conspiracies, that vaccines cause autism, that Osama bin Laden is still alive, antichrists and of course that President Obama was born in Kenya. It seems to me that people must compartmentalize their crazy, acting in rational ways to make a living, but behaving irrationally in private or among other conspiracists. It is, to me, frankly unsettling, but we muddle through somehow.


1In Christian Scripture, the antichrist is anyone who does not believe that Jesus was a flesh-and-blood human being, and there were many of those running around in the 1st century AD.

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80 Responses to The Antichrist? Really?

  1. avatar
    Deborah April 5, 2013 at 12:29 am #

    According to my World Religions professor, the “King (and savior) of the Jews” (the nation of Israel) that was (and is) anticipated by them is a military savior (a commander-in-chief). I never even thought of Jesus as any type of commander-in-chief until the professor mentioned it. Here’s one link that deals with the topic.

    http://www.livius.org/men-mh/messiah/messiah_07.html

  2. avatar
    alg April 5, 2013 at 12:36 am #

    So, let’s see, fully 25% of the American public is off their rocker.

  3. avatar
    Jeff April 5, 2013 at 12:38 am #

    I prefer to think that this survey is really saying that 1 in 4 Americans are dicks who say Obama might be the anti-christ in the hopes that they can influence others into believing it. Unfortunately for them, they’re all doing the same thing, a gigantic anti-Obama circle-jerk that accomplishes nothing and never rises above the level of around 20%.

  4. avatar
    Deborah April 5, 2013 at 12:40 am #

    Quote from the link posted above:

    How beautiful is king Messiah who is to arise from among those of the house of Judah. He girds his loins and goes forth to battle against those that hate him; and he kills kings with rulers, and makes the mountains red from the blood of their slain and makes the valleys white from the fat of their warriors. His garments are rolled in blood; he is like a presser of grapes.
    [Targum Neofiti Genesis 49.10-12]

  5. avatar
    Keith April 5, 2013 at 1:01 am #

    In Christian Scripture, the antichrist is anyone who does not believe that Jesus was a flesh-and-blood human being, and there were many of those running around in the 1st century AD.

    And the 21st Century too.

  6. avatar
    Deborah April 5, 2013 at 1:19 am #

    Well then by that definition I guess I might as well confess I am the anti-Christ and save Obama some trouble. I did not live during that time period and I cannot claim personal knowledge of events I did not witness just because some people from the past said it happened.

    We don’t get out of trouble except by the use of our minds, and if our minds are led astray, then we don’t get out of trouble. Obama is just a modern day scapegoat, like Jesus was, if Jesus existed.

  7. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 1:21 am #

    It is impossible for Obama to be the anti-Christ. He’s not Jewish:

    Falwell – ‘The anti-Christ is walking among us in the shape of a Jewish male.’
    Hagee – ‘The anti-Christ will be Jewish, as was Karl Marx, as was Adolf H!tler.’

    I’m sorry, but the anti-Christ is me. Do not believe me at your peril.

    Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…

  8. avatar
    Lupin April 5, 2013 at 2:49 am #

    Don’t you think that some people are just lying to play games with the pollsters? I mean, what is it, 5% believe in the lizard people? Really?

  9. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 5, 2013 at 3:23 am #

    Deborah: According to my World Religions professor, the “King (and savior) of the Jews” (the nation of Israel) that was (and is) anticipated by them is a military savior (a commander-in-chief).


    Judaism has no real clear vision/definition of what/who Moshiach (Messiah) will be, except perhaps that when he comes “the veil” will be lifted for all of humanity and there will be an end to war and suffering. Judaism does not view the Messiah as a sacrificial lamb. Many texts refer to him as a great and wise leader/judge; the military aspect is in relation to a final fighting off of enemies, oppressors (kind of like what Christians refer to as an end-of-times battle where the righteous fight and win). So, for example, Rabbi Akiva thought/hoped that the great military leader Bar Kochba was the Moshiach who would liberate the people from the oppression of the Romans. Turns out he was not, because the Romans prevailed.

    I have spent many years studying about Moshiach, and the subject of war/blood never came up. It is a deep and complex spiritual matter that cannot be learned in a World Religions class, nor fairly represented by citing one bloody passage from one author who was probably up to his eye balls in Roman oppression. Indeed, such shallow study may lead one to completely misunderstand and misrepresent the subject.

  10. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 5, 2013 at 3:29 am #

    Seems to me that birthers et al find in President Obama a convenient target to project all their irrational fears–the anti-Christ being one of them. It makes me sad and mad.

  11. avatar
    Pastor Charmley April 5, 2013 at 5:00 am #

    The game of “pin the tail (or should that be horns?) on the Antichrist” has a long history, and while there is a school of thought that says the Antichrist is Jewish, that is by no means the majority opinion on the matter. It attained its present popularity in the 19th century, since when almost every American President has been identified by someone, somewhere, as the Antichrist – and yes, that includes Jimmy Carter. Any prominent world leader is a target for such speculation, as are many below that status. Since the United States tends to be rather inward-looking, in part because it is so large, it does not surprise me that a large number of US citizens tend to look at the President as the possible Antichrist.

    This is also a symptom of the increasing polarization of American politics, where there are those on both sides who believe the other to be led by monstrous and cunning villains seeking to enslave the nation and put their opponents in prison camps. Of course the logical end of metaphorical demonization is literal demonization. Those who do not believe in literal demons have occasionally invoked the shape-shifting lizard-men from Dimension X instead, moving into the 20th century mythology (using the term theologically) of Science Fiction, a perfectly logical thing to do. Though mythology is simply not meant to be used in that way.

    The Antichrist of popular American imagination (let us call it what it is) is very loosely based on a conflation of the “Man of Lawlessness” in 2 Thessalonians and the figure of “the Beast” in the Book of Revelation. Added to the mix in that popular imagination is a loose appropriation of that conflated figure in popular culture such as the ‘Omen’ films, so that when one asks people about “the Antichrist”, one cannot be entirely sure that they are even operating in categories located within the Christian tradition any more.

  12. avatar
    The Magic M April 5, 2013 at 5:12 am #

    > What I wonder though is how society functions

    I wonder even more why such large numbers of people are obviously rather apathetic about their alleged own beliefs.

    If millions of Americans (and you don’t even need 25% to get millions, 1% is more than enough) believed their President was the Antichrist, why aren’t those millions taking to the streets, or attempt armed revolution?

    I believe people in this poll were mostly Republicans who saw this as a chance to say “I don’t like Obama” in a different way. Heck, if somebody asked me if I believed the leader of “Die Linke”, our most prolific socialist party (the successors of the old East German regime party SED), was the Antichrist, I would probably say “yes”, too.

  13. avatar
    Deborah April 5, 2013 at 5:46 am #

    JD Sue, I do not believe Jewish mythology anymore than I believe Greek mythology (and that includes Islamic and Christian mythology).

    I had an inter-disciplinary curriculum mostly consisting of European history. World Religions was sufficient for that purpose. The three major “religions” of the East, Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucianism (which are not really “religions”) can be balanced with the three major Western religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, from an inter-disciplinary perspective, to form what we call the humanities, but that’s besides the point.

    My only interest is in the literature itself, most of which I consider to be garbage- even psychological abuse. An art, and an authority, should serve the interest of the subject, that being the reader.

  14. avatar
    Arthur April 5, 2013 at 6:34 am #

    Dr. C. asserts, “Barack Obama will only be President a little less than 4 more years.”

    Foolish Obot!

    “Porter Stansberry says president is planning to subvert the Constitution and run for a third term”

    Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Obama-Running-In-2016-Publisher-Says-182550771.html#ixzz2PaGCiZGH

  15. avatar
    aarrgghh April 5, 2013 at 6:55 am #

    doc: What I wonder though is how society functions, how the food gets grown and packaged, firemen put out fires, and Amazon.com get the book I ordered delivered on time, when significant portions of the US population believe in alien abductions, global New World Order conspiracies, that vaccines cause autism, that Osama bin Laden is still alive, antichrists and of course that President Obama was born in Kenya.

    the “crazification factor” accounts for 25% to 35% of the population at any given time. its overlapping nature keeps the “27 percenters” generally confined to one segment of society, albeit a well-diffused one. the peter principle keeps that segment away from knobs and levers individual members prove themselves incapable of handling. the rest of us can only sit and cringe.

  16. avatar
    AlCum April 5, 2013 at 8:21 am #

    I just found out yesterday in a discussion that an otherwise completely normal, professional acquaintance with perfectly normal and mainstream views on many things also believes that evil conspirators wired the WTC towers and WTC7 with explosives in order to detonate them after the planes hit on 9/11. It was a mind boggling discussion.

  17. avatar
    Keith April 5, 2013 at 8:41 am #

    AlCum:
    I just found out yesterday in a discussion that an otherwise completely normal, professional acquaintance with perfectly normal and mainstream views on many things also believes that evil conspirators wired the WTC towers and WTC7 with explosives in order to detonate them after the planes hit on 9/11. It was a mind boggling discussion.

    Aw heck, that conspiracy is so big that more people are being bribed to keep it quiet than people who know nothing about it. The fake passengers on the ‘planes’ are living quietly on Diego Garcia, and their families are all taken care of for the next 7 generations.

  18. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 8:44 am #

    J.D. Sue:Judaism has no real clear vision/definition of what/who Moshiach (Messiah) will be,

    Traditional Judaism also believes that when the Moshiach arrives, the dead will be resurrected. If that’s true, there will be some awful looking people hopping around.

    That’s why Judaism forbids autopsies unless a crime has been committed, and forbids cremation – the body has to be preserved for the Moshiach’s arrival.

    In any case, it’s going to be a looong wait.

    OT: Jewish homes have a מזוזה on the door jamb; I have one. It’s a superstition: It’s to keep away the Angel of Death. The major culture has the Grim Reaper; we have the Angel of Death. Also, there is never an Aaron Goldberg Sr. and Jr.; everyone has a different name. That’s also a superstition.

    If two people in the same household have the same name, the Angel of Death might go to the wrong person.

  19. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 8:53 am #

    AlCum: It was a mind boggling discussion.

    There is a L&I inspector in my photography workshop. He flatly stated “It was an inside job.”

    “You know what’s involved in wiring a building to implode. C’mon,” I said.

    “I know what’s involved, and they managed to do it.”

    I also know an editor-in-chief of a photography magazine, and he is convinced it was done for an excuse to invade Iraq and its oil.

    In Arab countries, it’s the corollary: The Mossad did it, to invade Iraq and spread Zionism. “Jews were called the day before and told to stay home.”

  20. avatar
    Andrew Morris April 5, 2013 at 9:31 am #

    It is really scary that so many of these crazies are also in senior positions in law, business, government. Even Orly’s blessed Dr. Porter, who is a Seventh Day Adventist.

    On the antichrist = jewish thing, the religious wingnuts often latch onto the writings of a German theologian who reconciled the Jesus story with Nazi doctrine by arguing that immaculate conception meant Jeus was not contaminated by Jewish DNA.

  21. avatar
    The Magic M April 5, 2013 at 10:29 am #

    misha marinsky: Also, there is never an Aaron Goldberg Sr. and Jr.; everyone has a different name. That’s also a superstition.

    Interesting, I hadn’t heard or realized that before.

    I used to be superstitious but then I heard that may bring bad luck.

    Andrew Morris: who reconciled the Jesus story with Nazi doctrine

    After all, Jesus was born in Nazireth.

    Bada-bing.

  22. avatar
    Mary Brown April 5, 2013 at 11:01 am #

    Look people see what they want. Obama will always be the antichrist to them partially because of his ethnicity. It is interesting that when white Aryan Nation thugs start to murder people ethnicity and all it entails are not part of the mix to those who believe it is when it serves their scenarios. When I first started to attend church my first pastor, a wise man, told me that when he was young Mussolini was the antichrist. He wisely advised me to run not walk out of any church that preached it about anyone.

  23. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 11:07 am #

    Mary Brown: my first pastor, a wise man, told me that when he was young Mussolini was the antichrist

    Mussolini was the opposite: he gave the Pope his own country.

    The Vatican issues its own passports, postage stamps, and at one time their Secretary of State was an American Jesuit. I hope that drives Strunk mad.

  24. avatar
    Jeff April 5, 2013 at 11:13 am #

    I see some rather long comments here debating what Jews believed. How pointless is that? Debating details of made up religions is the most pointless waste of time there is. In fact, I postulate that wasting your time on religion would be a real sin in a vengeful god’s eyes.

  25. avatar
    Mary Brown April 5, 2013 at 11:20 am #

    I know about the Vatican and what Mussolini did. My Slovak family is very Catholic and I remember a picture of John 23 in my Grandmas apartment. What I am speaking to is a belief that John in the Book of Revelation was speaking of a particular person who would come. In the 30′s and early 40′s some believed very fervently that Mussolini fit the description. Since then some people include the President as a fit for the description given in an allegorical book which as I understand it was talking about the Romans and the early Church.

  26. avatar
    Horus April 5, 2013 at 12:19 pm #

    If the Anti-Christ is the exact opposite of The Christ, wouldn’t that make the Anti-Christ a woman?

  27. avatar
    donna April 5, 2013 at 12:21 pm #

    evangelical preachers like hagee believe the vatican is the “whore of babylon” and the pope is the “antichrist”

    catholic league donohue said: “If someone said to me: who is the biggest anti-Catholic bigot in the evangelical community, I would say hands down, John Hagee.”

  28. avatar
    Rickey April 5, 2013 at 12:30 pm #

    donna:
    evangelical preachers like hagee believe the vatican is the “whore of babylon” and the pope is the “antichrist”

    catholic league donohue said: “If someone said to me: who is the biggest anti-Catholic bigot in the evangelical community, I would say hands down, John Hagee.”

    That’s an interesting comment from Donohue, who is himself a bigot. In his latest tirade, he wants HBO to fire Bill Maher for making fun of the Vatican.

  29. avatar
    richCares April 5, 2013 at 12:35 pm #

    there was an error in the scripture translation, the original was covering ant-matter, it was a scientific discussion

  30. avatar
    Horus April 5, 2013 at 12:36 pm #

    Pastor Charmley:
    It attained its present popularity in the 19th century, since when almost every American President has been identified by someone, somewhere, as the Antichrist – and yes, that includes Jimmy Carter. Any prominent world leader is a target for such speculation, as are many below that status.

    During the Bush Presidency didn’t a lot of these same people insist that Saddam Hussein was the anti-Christ?

  31. avatar
    Yoda April 5, 2013 at 12:58 pm #

    Andrew Morris:
    It is really scary that so many of these crazies are also in senior positions in law, business, government. Even Orly’s blessed Dr. Porter, who is a Seventh Day Adventist.

    On the antichrist = jewish thing, the religious wingnuts often latch onto the writings of a German theologian who reconciled the Jesus story with Nazi doctrine by arguing that immaculate conception meant Jeus was not contaminated by Jewish DNA.

    So his Momma was a shiksa? Who knew?

  32. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 5, 2013 at 1:21 pm #

    J.D. Sue: —Judaism has no real clear vision/definition of what/who Moshiach (Messiah) will be, except perhaps that when he comes “the veil” will be lifted for all of humanity and there will be an end to war and suffering. Judaism does not view the Messiah as a sacrificial lamb. Many texts refer to him as a great and wise leader/judge; the military aspect is in relation to a final fighting off of enemies, oppressors (kind of like what Christians refer to as an end-of-times battle where the righteous fight and win). So, for example, Rabbi Akiva thought/hoped that the great military leader Bar Kochba was the Moshiach who would liberate the people from the oppression of the Romans. Turns out he was not, because the Romans prevailed.I have spent many years studying about Moshiach, and the subject of war/blood never came up. It is a deep and complex spiritual matter that cannot be learned in a World Religions class, nor fairly represented by citing one bloody passage from one author who was probably up to his eye balls in Roman oppression. Indeed, such shallow study may lead one to completely misunderstand and misrepresent the subject.

    On Kingston Avenue in Brooklyn, right by Rabbi Schneerson’s headquarters, there’s a big sign that reads, “Welcome Moshiach.” I keep imagining the Messiah driving down Kingston Avenue, seeing that sign, and stepping out of his “black-and-yellow Ford” to reveal Himself.

    Problem is, nobody would believe it unless He appeared on a “reality show.”

  33. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 5, 2013 at 1:28 pm #

    Pastor Charmley: The game of “pin the tail (or should that be horns?) on the Antichrist” has a long history, and while there is a school of thought that says the Antichrist is Jewish, that is by no means the majority opinion on the matter. It attained its present popularity in the 19th century, since when almost every American President has been identified by someone, somewhere, as the Antichrist – and yes, that includes Jimmy Carter. Any prominent world leader is a target for such speculation, as are many below that status. Since the United States tends to be rather inward-looking, in part because it is so large, it does not surprise me that a large number of US citizens tend to look at the President as the possible Antichrist.This is also a symptom of the increasing polarization of American politics, where there are those on both sides who believe the other to be led by monstrous and cunning villains seeking to enslave the nation and put their opponents in prison camps. Of course the logical end of metaphorical demonization is literal demonization. Those who do not believe in literal demons have occasionally invoked the shape-shifting lizard-men from Dimension X instead, moving into the 20th century mythology (using the term theologically) of Science Fiction, a perfectly logical thing to do. Though mythology is simply not meant to be used in that way.The Antichrist of popular American imagination (let us call it what it is) is very loosely based on a conflation of the “Man of Lawlessness” in 2 Thessalonians and the figure of “the Beast” in the Book of Revelation. Added to the mix in that popular imagination is a loose appropriation of that conflated figure in popular culture such as the ‘Omen’ films, so that when one asks people about “the Antichrist”, one cannot be entirely sure that they are even operating in categories located within the Christian tradition any more.

    Jimmy Carter as the Anti-Christ? That would explain the rabbit incident…

  34. avatar
    brygenon April 5, 2013 at 1:42 pm #

    donna: evangelical preachers like hagee believe the vatican is the “whore of babylon” and the pope is the “antichrist”

    Yeah, but so did Isaac Newton, whose individual contributions to advancing human knowledge rank number one. I don’t mean that as a condemnation of Catholics of course. I mean it as a commendation of religion.

  35. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 5, 2013 at 2:23 pm #

    misha marinsky: when the Moshiach arrives, the dead will be resurrected.

    —-

    How could I forget that part?!

  36. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 5, 2013 at 2:31 pm #

    The Magic M:
    misha marinsky: Also, there is never an Aaron Goldberg Sr. and Jr.; everyone has a different name. That’s also a superstition.
    Interesting, I hadn’t heard or realized that before.
    I used to be superstitious but then I heard that may bring bad luck

    —-
    Also, it used to be somewhat common to change the name of a very ill person, to try to fool the Angel of Death.

  37. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 2:40 pm #

    misha marinsky: Judaism also believes that when the Moshiach arrives, the dead will be resurrected.

    Jews don’t have cemeteries. They’re called housing for the elderly and infirm. [bada-bing]

  38. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 2:42 pm #

    J.D. Sue: Also, it used to be somewhat common to change the name of a very ill person, to try to fool the Angel of Death.

    Betty Jo Bialorski was changed to Nancy. [apologies to the Firesign Theatre]

  39. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 2:50 pm #

    Kiwiwriter: there’s a big sign that reads, “Welcome Moshiach.”

    English, Yiddish or Hebrew? In order for the Moshiach to read it, the sign would have to be in Aramaic.

    But seriously folks, some meshuggeners think Schneerson was the Moshiach. Sure, the Moshiach used a car and a telephone.

    “Hi, Moshiach here. You need a miracle? What do you think I am, a doctor? What, your stock went to zero? Call the SEC.”

  40. avatar
    Jim April 5, 2013 at 3:21 pm #

    In other news, in a completely unscientific poll of Judges who have had Orly Taitz appear before them…100% agree that she’s “Batsh*t Crazy”.

  41. avatar
    Plantmaster April 5, 2013 at 3:52 pm #

    Fred Phelps from Westboro Baptist Church declared Obama the Antichrist some time ago. Another racist RWNJ I encountered many years ago (Peter S. Ruckman of Pensacola Bible Institute) was of the opinion that the Antichrist would be an African Pope. There’s a Jesuit now in that position…I wonder if old Peter has revised his POV…(lol)?

  42. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 5, 2013 at 3:53 pm #

    Kiwiwriter: On Kingston Avenue in Brooklyn, right by Rabbi Schneerson’s headquarters, there’s a big sign that reads, “Welcome Moshiach.”

    —-

    Rabbi Schneerson’s Chabad movement is totally into that. A was studying under a Chabad Rabbi in Chicago and one day he returned from a trip to Brooklyn with crutches and a broken leg. We asked, “Rabbi, what happened?” He answered, “We were calling for Moshiach and dancing, and I fell off the table.”

  43. avatar
    Deborah April 5, 2013 at 3:53 pm #

    Obama is the new anti-christ because religious fanatics think the end of the world is always right around the corner. Christianity can be very ego-centric. I have several “friends” who believe they are the special ones, and God will abolish all evil very soon just for their sake. I don’t believe their suffering is of any greater cause for concern than the suffering of people in ages past. These prophecies have failed time and time again.

    It is a good thing that scientists developed the telescope. Now we can see that there is no “heaven” as it is depicted in religious art. The “heaven” is violent. There are volcanoes on Venus, for instance. I wouldn’t want to be raptured to spend eternity there.

    Jewish religion forbids “graven images” (pictures of gods and angels and the heaven, etc.) but literary images (or word art) are just as much a form of imagery. This is not “forbidden” but it should be. Michelangelo was great for painting religious imagery but after the Protestant Revolution, art moved away from depicting angels, etc., in religious art toward humanism.

  44. avatar
    SluggoJD April 5, 2013 at 3:57 pm #

    Horus:
    If the Anti-Christ is the exact opposite of The Christ, wouldn’t that make the Anti-Christ a woman?

    Hillary Clinton in 2016 – bank on it!

  45. avatar
    Deborah April 5, 2013 at 4:00 pm #

    I already admitted it was me.

    Anyhow, getting back on my pulpit box, it all goes back to Socrates- the first to protest evil in religious literature. According to Socrates, what is written about the divine should not only be true, it should be good.

  46. avatar
    Deborah April 5, 2013 at 4:27 pm #

    Andrew Morris April 5, 2013 at 9:31 am (Quote) #

    It is really scary that so many of these crazies are also in senior positions in law, business, government.

    No kidding! But also a lot of careers are wiping out over this.

  47. avatar
    Pastor Charmley April 5, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

    Following up a challenge issued by someone when I opined that a book by a fundamentalist nutcase lady called Gail Riplinger would be awful (it was), I read the book. In that she suggested that because Satan does not know when the Second Coming will be, he always has at least one Antichrist waiting in the wings. Rather conveniently this means that the nutjobs can have their cake and eat it to, “Well, Saddam was the Antichrist, but he got past his use-by date, so now it’s Obama.”

    Again, I wish I was making that bit up. Having said that, in my varied experience, the vast majority even of evangelicals worldwide (the US is a special case) are sublimely disinterested in the whole matter, and British Evangelicalism as a whole looks with bemusement at the folly of our US cousins.

    I am of course not counting the tiny and irritating minority in this country who want to say that David Cameron is the Antichrist. No, David Cameron is not the Antichrist, but good manners prevents me saying what David Cameron is. I have always been told that if you cannot say anything nice about someone, you should not say anything at all about them, so I shall say nothing about David Cameron. Or those who think he is the Antichrist.

  48. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 5:23 pm #

    Pastor Charmley: I shall say nothing about David Cameron. Or those who think he is the Antichrist.

    How many times do I have to tell you – Cameron is not Jewish. He cannot be the anti-Christ. It’s ME.

    Ignore me at your peril.

    Pastor Charmley: good manners prevents me saying what David Cameron is. I have always been told that if you cannot say anything nice about someone, you should not say anything at all about them

    He’s still better than Shrub.

  49. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 5:26 pm #

    Deborah: Jewish religion forbids “graven images”

    Actually, it’s just images that could be worshipped.

  50. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 5:28 pm #

    Horus: During the Bush Presidency didn’t a lot of these same people insist that Saddam Hussein was the anti-Christ?

    They can’t make up their minds.

  51. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 5:40 pm #

    J.D. Sue: He answered, “We were calling for Moshiach and dancing, and I fell off the table.”

    That’s some miracle maker.

  52. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 5:43 pm #

    Andrew Morris: It is really scary that so many of these crazies are also in senior positions in law, business, government.

    James Watt.

  53. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 5:47 pm #

    I’m going to start a new branch of Judaism. It’s going to have a heaven, but only dogs, cats and other animals can go there.

    People are not allowed.

  54. avatar
    misha marinsky April 5, 2013 at 7:41 pm #

    brygenon: I mean it as a commendation of religion.

    Where would comedians and Mark Twain get their material?

  55. avatar
    Deborah April 5, 2013 at 9:50 pm #

    This might be old news on this site, but it’s news to me: it’s something about the lottery number 666 being drawn on or about Obama’s election.

    *sigh* This was posted by Geir Smith, the “messiah.”

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.137027236355817.22943.100001456236768&type=1

  56. avatar
    Deborah April 5, 2013 at 9:59 pm #

    Disgusting. God and the lottery. You Tube video.

    http://youtu.be/w9Jm18Cstqk

  57. avatar
    Keith April 6, 2013 at 7:09 am #

    Deborah:
    This might be old news on this site, but it’s news to me: it’s something about the lottery number 666 being drawn on or about Obama’s election.

    *sigh* This was posted by Geir Smith, the “messiah.”

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.137027236355817.22943.100001456236768&type=1

    Snopes: Sorry, Wrong Number

  58. avatar
    G April 7, 2013 at 4:50 pm #

    For me, this really is the big question that sums the whole issue up:

    It seems to me that people must compartmentalize their crazy, acting in rational ways to make a living, but behaving irrationally in private or among other conspiracists. It is, to me, frankly unsettling, but we muddle through somehow.

    As to the answers to that question, I defer to what several others have wrote and agree with a resounding “Yes” to both:

    (Although on this one, sadly I think that number sometimes gets as high as one third)

    Jeff: I prefer to think that this survey is really saying that 1 in 4 Americans are dicks who say Obama might be the anti-christ in the hopes that they can influence others into believing it. Unfortunately for them, they’re all doing the same thing, a gigantic anti-Obama circle-jerk that accomplishes nothing and never rises above the level of around 20%.

    It sure seems that way…

    alg:
    So, let’s see, fully 25% of the American public is off their rocker.

    alg:
    So, let’s see, fully 25% of the American public is off their rocker.

  59. avatar
    G April 7, 2013 at 5:54 pm #

    Very well stated, on both accounts!!!

    Pastor Charmley: Those who do not believe in literal demons have occasionally invoked the shape-shifting lizard-men from Dimension X instead, moving into the 20th century mythology (using the term theologically) of Science Fiction, a perfectly logical thing to do. Though mythology is simply not meant to be used in that way.

    ,… when one asks people about “the Antichrist”, one cannot be entirely sure that they are even operating in categories located within the Christian tradition any more.

  60. avatar
    G April 7, 2013 at 5:57 pm #

    THAT is the real problem…

    Andrew Morris: It is really scary that so many of these crazies are also in senior positions in law, business, government.

  61. avatar
    Lupin April 8, 2013 at 2:29 am #

    misha marinsky:
    I’m going to start a new branch of Judaism. It’s going to have a heaven, but only dogs, cats and other animals can go there.

    People are not allowed.

    William Gaines the founder of MAD magazine reportedly had a saying which I’m fond of borrowing:

    “people are no damn good.”

  62. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 8, 2013 at 1:11 pm #

    misha marinsky: English, Yiddish or Hebrew? In order for the Moshiach to read it, the sign would have to be in Aramaic.But seriously folks, some meshuggeners think Schneerson was the Moshiach. Sure, the Moshiach used a car and a telephone.“Hi, Moshiach here. You need a miracle? What do you think I am, a doctor? What, your stock went to zero? Call the SEC.”

    The sign was in English…otherwise I could never have read it. I’m sure the Moshiach, being omnipotent, can read all languages.

    Yeah, Schneerson was touted by followers as the Moschiach, but he never took that label for himself in his own statements, being cagey.

    My main take on that neighborhood was that they had the worst bloody pizza in New York, and that was not easy.

  63. avatar
    misha marinsky April 8, 2013 at 4:14 pm #

    Kiwiwriter: Yeah, Schneerson was touted by followers as the Moschiach, but he never took that label for himself in his own statements, being cagey.

    He did not have children, so he loved the attention.

    Kiwiwriter: My main take on that neighborhood was that they had the worst bloody pizza in New York, and that was not easy.

    You have to go to Park Slope or Midtown.

    For bagels, Hot Bagels, 1594 Rockaway Pkwy Brooklyn

  64. avatar
    misha marinsky April 8, 2013 at 4:18 pm #

    Lupin: William Gaines the founder of MAD magazine reportedly had a saying which I’m fond of borrowing: “people are no damn good.”

    I posted this on the open thread: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2013/04/the-occasional-open-thread-time-flies-when-youre-having-fun-edition/#comment-261670

  65. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 8, 2013 at 4:24 pm #

    misha marinsky: He did not have children, so he loved the attention.You have to go to Park Slope or Midtown.For bagels, Hot Bagels, 1594 Rockaway Pkwy Brooklyn

    I’m not surprised…I took a pal of mine from Australia and his family to Schneerson’s HQ in Brooklyn, where another acquaintance took us on the neighborhood tour. The alleged “Moshiach” lived in a pretty routine home in the neighborhood. After that, they wrapped my pal and his son up in tefillim and dragged him into the HQ for an hour-and-a-half of praying. They didn’t bother the daughter, and I avoided being wrapped in leather pretty simply…asked my religion, I reverted to my English accent and said, “Sorry, mate, Church of England.” And they left me alone.

    Best pizza in New York for me was any one of the various “Famous Ray’s.” The one at 11th and 6th was my favorite, across the street from my grade school.

  66. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 8, 2013 at 8:39 pm #

    misha marinsky: He did not have children, so he loved the attention.

    —-

    He did not have children, nor did he name a successor, which is why some of his followers concluded while he was alive that he must be Moshiach (else he would have named a successor). What gets me is that many still continued to think he is Moshiach after he died, a concept that makes no real sense in Judaism as I understand it.

  67. avatar
    misha marinsky April 8, 2013 at 10:08 pm #

    J.D. Sue: What gets me is that many still continued to think he is Moshiach after he died, a concept that makes no real sense in Judaism as I understand it.

    The cult of personality is anathema in Judaism.

  68. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 8, 2013 at 10:27 pm #

    The whole worship of Schneerson baffled me…no kids, which is against Jewish tradition, the personality cult, which is against Jewish tradition…and the Mitzvot tanks…with Chassidim wrapping you up in Tefillim, and chanting off rote prayers while reading the New York Post…the only way I could get rid of them was to say the magic words, “Sorry, mate, C of E.” Then they’d leave me alone.

    Funnily, when the Christian evangelists come to our door, my wife tells them we’re Jewish, and they leave us alone.

    What would happen if I tell them we’re Pastafarians?

  69. avatar
    misha marinsky April 8, 2013 at 11:03 pm #

    Kiwiwriter: while reading the New York Post

    At least it’s not the National Enquirer.

    Kiwiwriter: What would happen if I tell them we’re Pastafarians?

    You’d get a spaghetti and meatball dinner. I’m telling you, the sauce is so good, you wouldn’t believe it.

  70. avatar
    misha marinsky April 8, 2013 at 11:08 pm #

    Kiwiwriter: with Chassidim wrapping you up in Tefillim, and chanting off rote prayers

    Yeah, but when I used to go, at least I got a huge plate of lox and bagels at the end. That made it worth it.

    Now I go to Costco, and skip the ceremony. Such a bargain, you wouldn’t believe it.

  71. avatar
    misha marinsky April 8, 2013 at 11:33 pm #

    Kiwiwriter: the Mitzvot tanks…with Chassidim wrapping you up in Tefillim, and chanting off rote prayers

    You were expecting the Spanish Inquisition, maybe?

  72. avatar
    misha marinsky April 8, 2013 at 11:39 pm #

    J.D. Sue: What gets me is that many still continued to think he is Moshiach after he died, a concept that makes no real sense in Judaism as I understand it.

    The Moshiach using a car and a telephone, makes no sense. A real Moshiach would not need to use those two inventions.

  73. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 9, 2013 at 1:30 am #

    Kiwiwriter: Funnily, when the Christian evangelists come to our door, my wife tells them we’re Jewish, and they leave us alone.

    —-

    You must not live in the US then. In the US, telling them I’m Jewish usually gets them going trying to “save” me, telling me it’s the only way to avoid hell and get to heaven. I finally found a way that gets them to back off: I tell them I want to go to wherever my beloved father (alav hashalom) is, and then ask them if they are trying to tell me he is in hell right now… Shuts them right up.

    As for the Rebbe’s Chabad, I’ve actually met some of their rabbis who I like very much, and they do provide free study, and a place to go in a pinch on the holidays and when traveling overseas. And like my brother says, you just have to remember to avoid them in the mornings (if you want to avoid being strapped with tefillin); of course for me that’s not an issue.

  74. avatar
    Keith April 9, 2013 at 1:41 am #

    misha marinsky: The cult of personality is anathema in Judaism.

    I went digging on the internet to check if this Rabbi Schneerson is the same guy that smeared across billboards and front yard banner hoardings all over North Caulfield a few years ago. He was. Chabad has dancers out in the morning in St. Kilda (next suburb over from Caulfield) that attracts a lot of attention by the commuters.

    I must admit I was taken aback by the personality cult-like status he seemed to be infused with, even though I wasn’t aware it was ‘anathema’. It just struck me more like an Evangelical Christian Revival meeting promotion than a Jewish wisdom group.

    In the process, the second link I checked got me to failedmessiah.com/. This blogger really seems to have been damaged by Chabad big time. The link I followed was actually not that page, but a blog entry from 2010 claiming that Schneerson’s predecessors, the 5th And 6th Lubavitch Rebbes, were sexually molested as children, had incestuous relations with sisters, and other bad stuff. The 5th Rebbe even went to Vienna to be treated by Freud for his ‘maladies’.

    I also learned that Chabad was strongly anti-Zionist – that quite surprised me. I expect there’s a lot more interesting stuff, probably not quite so much tabloid fodder as the molestation business, as a goy, I would probably be reading it for its tabloid character anyway. As an outsider it would be difficult to figure out just what to take seriously.

  75. avatar
    misha marinsky April 9, 2013 at 2:07 am #

    J.D. Sue: I finally found a way that gets them to back off:

    I’ll repeat my favorite story. I was in the McDonald’s at 10th and Market. A woman at the next table turned to me and said, “Do you know Jesus?”

    “What’s his last name?”

    “You never heard of Jesus Christ?!”

    “Didn’t go to school with anyone by that name. What’s he do?”

    “Jesus died!!”

    “That’s terrible. Was it cancer?”

  76. avatar
    misha marinsky April 9, 2013 at 2:09 am #

    Keith: As an outsider it would be difficult to figure out just what to take seriously.

    The lox and bagels.

  77. avatar
    Keith April 9, 2013 at 6:37 am #

    misha marinsky: The lox and bagels.

    How about the blintz? I love me some cheese blintz.

  78. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 9, 2013 at 12:46 pm #

    misha marinsky: You were expecting the Spanish Inquisition, maybe?

    Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

  79. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 9, 2013 at 12:48 pm #

    J.D. Sue: —-You must not live in the US then. In the US, telling them I’m Jewish usually gets them going trying to “save” me, telling me it’s the only way to avoid hell and get to heaven. I finally found a way that gets them to back off: I tell them I want to go to wherever my beloved father (alav hashalom) is, and then ask them if they are trying to tell me he is in hell right now… Shuts them right up. As for the Rebbe’s Chabad, I’ve actually met some of their rabbis who I like very much, and they do provide free study, and a place to go in a pinch on the holidays and when traveling overseas. And like my brother says, you just have to remember to avoid them in the mornings (if you want to avoid being strapped with tefillin); of course for me that’s not an issue.

    No, I live in the United States, and for some reason, the Jehovah’s Witnesses — the major evangelists in our area — back off when we tell them we’re Jewish.

    My mother used to argue mathematics and physics with the evangelists, and they were baffled…one time Mom was giving them hell about Pi not having a resolution, and the woman said, “We don’t bake pies in our church.”

  80. avatar
    Kiwiwriter April 9, 2013 at 12:50 pm #

    misha marinsky: I’ll repeat my favorite story. I was in the McDonald’s at 10th and Market. A woman at the next table turned to me and said, “Do you know Jesus?”“What’s his last name?”“You never heard of Jesus Christ?!”“Didn’t go to school with anyone by that name. What’s he do?”“Jesus died!!”“That’s terrible. Was it cancer?”

    When people ask me if I know Jesus, I tell them, “Yeah, he and his brothers Matty and Felipe Alou were pretty good outfielders in the 1960s. They all played in the same game in the outfield for the Giants in 1966, the first time there was an all-brother outfield in the majors.”

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