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Suspicious lunch box at MSCO construction site; $1 million settlement over trumped-up charge lawsuit

Work was shut down today at the construction site of a new headquarters for the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office. ABC 15 News reports that the messages “BOMB INSIDE” and “NO WORK TODAY” were painted on the wall of the partially constructed building [photo and story]. Bomb-sniffing dogs alerted on a lunch box found on the second floor. 100-150 workers were evacuated.

I used to work in a building that housed 3 radio stations, the FBI, the Internal Revenue Service, the Secret Service and a bank. There were so many bomb threats, that we finally stopped evacuating the building. Those were more peaceful times (not). Bomb threats, even spurious ones, are not funny, as will be found out if the perpetrator is caught.

Sheriff Arpaio and the MSCO. of course, have made lots of enemies and some of them have good cause to bear him ill. See my article, for example, “Arpaio attacks enemies with questionable evidence.” That article references a  lawsuit against the MSCO by a number of individuals, including a former judge, against whom it is alleged that Arpaio brought politically-motivated, trumped up charges. Last June, the Court ordered final entry of a settlement agreement in which the MSCO agreed to pay one of those plaintiffs, Wilcox, $975,000.00 in principal damages and $27,222.00 in attorney fees and $1,089.56 expenses. On April 26, 2013, MSCO attorneys notified the court that a settlement agreement had been reached with Plaintiff Donahoe, but does not state the terms reached.

144 Responses to Suspicious lunch box at MSCO construction site; $1 million settlement over trumped-up charge lawsuit

  1. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG May 1, 2013 at 1:15 pm #

    Amazing how one man’s belligerence, and bigoted stupidity is now putting other people at risk!

  2. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 1:42 pm #

    The only time there’s a bomb threat, is when Arpaio [insert scatological humor here.]

  3. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG May 1, 2013 at 2:20 pm #

    misha marinsky:
    The only time there’s a bomb threat, is when Arpaio [insert scatological humor here.]

    I hear he eats an entire log with breakfast, to stay regular.
    That’s how he really got the title of “America’s Toughest Sheriff”

    Now, look at Sheriff Joe…then at Ren and Stimpy’s “Wilber Cobb” then back at Sheriff Joe. Sadly they are the same guy.

  4. avatar
    Joe Acerbic May 1, 2013 at 2:48 pm #

    It’s quite a coincidence that all these “bombs” threatening the creep seem much more suitable for hyping and whining than for exploding, like a small amount of gunpowder in an envelope and now a lunchbox with nothing or maybe a sandwich inside.

  5. avatar
    donna May 1, 2013 at 4:09 pm #

    it’s too bad the NRA BLOCKED “taggants” in explosives (except for plastic explosives)

  6. avatar
    sfjeff May 1, 2013 at 4:25 pm #

    donna: it’s too bad the NRA BLOCKED “taggants” in explosives (except for plastic explosives)

    Yep- can’t make it any easier for the federal gobmint to track bombs, because the gubmint is coming to take your god given bombs away from you.

    I hadn’t heard about taggants until a few days ago and have to admit I didn’t think I could be surprised anymore by the NRA, but opposing chemical tags in explosives and gunpowder managed to surprise me.

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 1, 2013 at 4:30 pm #

    The extreme positions of the NRA aren’t about hunting, sporting or personal protection. They are about armed insurrection should the fringe conclude that the government has become oppressive. They want to make it difficult for the government to deal with what I would call domestic terrorists, and they would call freedom fighters.

    sfjeff: I hadn’t heard about taggants until a few days ago and have to admit I didn’t think I could be surprised anymore by the NRA, but opposing chemical tags in explosives and gunpowder managed to surprise me.

  8. avatar
    scott e May 1, 2013 at 4:40 pm #

    sfjeff: Yep- can’t make it any easier for the federal gobmint to track bombs, because the gubmint is coming to take your god given bombs away from you.

    I hadn’t heard about taggants until a few days ago and have to admit I didn’t think I could be surprised anymore by the NRA, but opposing chemical tags in explosives and gunpowder managed to surprise me.

    actually bullets are little bombs, when you think about it sfj…. tangents and all…

  9. avatar
    donna May 1, 2013 at 4:58 pm #

    IMAGINE if we didn’t allow vin numbers on cars or serial or lot numbers – imagine how many deadly drugs, food, cars, toys wouldn’t be recalled – BUT THE NRA gets away with this GARBAGE and has

    The ATF estimated the cost at 2 CENTS PER POUND of explosives in the mid-1970s, and that ratio has not changed. Although this isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison, it’s worth noting that economists have said closing down Boston for a day cost about $333 MILLION; a few extra pennies are a bargain by comparison.

  10. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 5:10 pm #

    OH, the great use of taggants will solve everything. You put taggants into 25,000 pounds of gun power , load it into 10,000,000 rounds of ammunition, some one shoots someone with one round of 45 and the recover the information that that bullet was loaded with taggants loaded gunpowder.

    Now how in hell does that lead to the shooter.

    A taggant does not tell you a damn thing except that the powder was made by someone, loaded into some explosive, distributed somehow, and you think it applies to a shooter!

    Taggants are great for explosives , and not burners, ( gun powder is a burner,), and is great for tracking large groups of explosives, but not guns.

    And , of top of that, let us visualize a shooter, committed murderer, who no knows that taggants are in the cartridges.

    A smart shooter buys cartridges from multiple sources , and manufacturers, loads the weapon with alternating cartridges and shoot his victims twice , then claim that there must have been two shooters because different taggants are in the vidtim.

    Great!

  11. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 5:15 pm #

    donna:
    IMAGINE if we didn’t allow vin numbers on cars or serial or lot numbers – imagine how many deadly drugs, food, cars, toys wouldn’t be recalled – BUT THE NRA gets away with this GARBAGE and has

    The ATF estimated the cost at 2 CENTS PER POUND of explosives in the mid-1970s, and that ratio has not changed. Although this isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison, it’s worth noting that economists have said closing down Boston for a day cost about $333 MILLION; a few extra pennies are a bargain by comparison.

    Taggants do not identify a revolver, rifle, or lunch box. They identify a batch of explosives of some sort!

    Holy smokes, people, imagine what the country would be like if it was like the mid-east where bombs are encouraged as longs as the are aimed at our enemies.

    And where the USA provides the damn explosives to use by the locals against the locals.

    And you worry about the NRA!

  12. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 5:20 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The extreme positions of the NRA aren’t about hunting, sporting or personal protection. They are about armed insurrection should the fringe conclude that the government has become oppressive. They want to make it difficult for the government to deal with what I would call domestic terrorists, and they would call freedom fighters.

    To that very point, Doc, here is a piece from TalkingPointsMemo about a survey that finds 29% of the people surveyed think armed rebellion might be necessary……soon.

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/05/armed-rebellion-poll.php

  13. avatar
    donna May 1, 2013 at 5:21 pm #

    the FBI might have been able to do it faster if tiny plastic markers had been part of the small-arms propellant packed into the pressure-cooker bombs.

    Fluorescent particles could be detected by ultraviolet light. Manufacturers would use a different taggant in each batch

    These little chips, called “taggants,” have been around for close to 40 years, and their crime-solving capability is impressive. But they’re not used today because of one formidable opponent: the NRA.

    Tamerlan Tsarnaev bought three pounds of black powder from N.H. fireworks store –

    In May 2010, Shahzad traveled to Weimer’s other fireworks supermarket in Matamoras, Pa., where he bought 288 M-88 firecrackers to construct a pressure-cooker bomb he planted in a Nissan Pathfinder in Times Square.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tamerlan-bought-bombs-article-1.1325504#ixzz2S4uNOeRT

  14. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 5:22 pm #

    The NRA, of which I am NOT a member, supports the arming of the country to allow the public to protect the public from criminals , of any sort., not just an oppressive government.

    It also protected the blacks from the KKK , the Koreans from the rioters in SLos Angeles.
    and daily protects people from people who want to harm them.

    If you remember correctly, and I am sure that you do, England used to have and un-armed police force, and , the public was allowed to own and use weapons, before WW2!

    The, for some reason, the crazy started shooting children, the nation banned weapons, and now the police are allowed to be armed, and the citizens are jailed for defending themselve with any kind of weapon.

    You want that here?

  15. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 5:24 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: Holy smokes, people, imagine what the country would be like if it was like the mid-east where bombs are encouraged as longs as the are aimed at our enemies.

    What’s your point, Joe?

    Are you, by chance, claiming that the use of taggants would encourage bombings?

  16. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 5:25 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:They want to make it difficult for the government to deal with what I would call domestic terrorists, and they would call freedom fighters.

    Palin won’t call abortion clinic bombers ‘terrorists’

    “Now, others who would want to engage in harming innocent Americans or facilities that it would be unacceptable to—I don’t know if you’re going to use the word terrorist there, but it’s unacceptable, and it would not be condoned, of course, on our watch.”

    http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/001804/

  17. avatar
    nbc May 1, 2013 at 5:27 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: You want that here?

    Yes. But you are wrong about self defense in the UK.

    Under common law

    “A defendant is entitled to use reasonable force to protect himself, others for whom he is responsible and his property. It must be reasonable.”

    Which was replaced by statute

    Section 3(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 provides that:

    “A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large.”
    Section 3(2) states:

    “Subsection (1) above shall replace the rules of the common law on the question when force used for a purpose mentioned in the subsection is justified by that purpose.”

    Since it has been well established that the availability of lethal weapons increases gun related homicides, suicides and accidents, I find the NRA’s position to be at best, ill informed.

  18. avatar
    donna May 1, 2013 at 5:27 pm #

    Kentucky 5-year-old gets rifle as GIFT (when he was FOUR) and shoots 2-year-old sister dead

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/01/kentucky-5-year-old-gets-rifle-as-gift-and-shoots-2-year-old-sister-dead/

    what happened to trucks, books, games, etc?

  19. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 5:29 pm #

    donna:
    the FBI might have been able to do it faster if tiny plastic markers had been part of the small-arms propellant packed into the pressure-cooker bombs.

    Fluorescent particles could be detected by ultraviolet light. Manufacturers would use a different taggant in each batch

    These little chips, called “taggants,” have been around for close to 40 years, and their crime-solving capability is impressive. But they’re not used today because of one formidable opponent: the NRA.

    Tamerlan Tsarnaev bought three pounds of black powder from N.H. fireworks store –

    In May 2010, Shahzad traveled to Weimer’s other fireworks supermarket in Matamoras, Pa., where he bought 288 M-88 firecrackers to construct a pressure-cooker bomb he planted in a Nissan Pathfinder in Times Square.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/tamerlan-bought-bombs-article-1.1325504#ixzz2S4uNOeRT

    Amazing, how would the taggants help locate the criminal?

    Fireworks are made in China, Japan, everywhere, and distributed , in California, all over the state from stands who don’t require a permit to buy the darn stuff,

    How can you find who bought the fireworks.

    Oh, you want background checks on all fireworks buyers to make it easy to find the criminals.

    Sheesh!

    and, to make it even more difficult, if you are capable of understanding the difficulty, if you drop a bomb in Afghanistan, and the bomb doesn’t not explode, the locals take it apart , and use the explosives from that bomb to make 1,000 small bombs all with the taggants identifying the USA as the buyer!

  20. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 5:30 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: The NRA, of which I am NOT a member, supports the arming of the country to allow the public to protect the public from criminals , of any sort., not just an oppressive government.

    Philadelphia prosecutor’s office: “We will not tolerate vigilantes.” I completely agree.

  21. avatar
    donna May 1, 2013 at 5:32 pm #

    Saynomorejoe:

    how? records of who bought what when like there are vin, serial & lot numbers – law enforcement identifies bodies by serial numbers in breast implants and joint replacements

    we get recalls and law enforcement can locate criminals with taggants in black powder – why do people scrape off serial numbers from guns? so they can’t be traced

  22. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 5:36 pm #

    donna:
    Kentucky 5-year-old gets rifle as GIFT (when he was FOUR) and shoots 2-year-old sister dead

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/01/kentucky-5-year-old-gets-rifle-as-gift-and-shoots-2-year-old-sister-dead/

    what happened to trucks, books, games, etc?

    When children see video games where the particpants shoot each other and they all recover, they can not differnetiatie between truth and fiction.

    we shelter the children of seeing what a bullet does to a person so they have not idea that it really will hurt someone.

    You have to expose children to the effects of guns before they understand the dangers.

    Advocate that the schools show the young children what happens to their bodies if they are shot, It might help!

    I used to spank my children if they ran into the street, teaching them that running into the street results in pain, They ceased that after a few times of punishment

  23. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 5:41 pm #

    donna:
    Saynomorejoe:

    how? records of who bought what when like there are vin, serial & lot numbers – law enforcement identifies bodies by serial numbers in breast implants and joint replacements

    we get recalls and law enforcement can locate criminals with taggants in black powder – why do people scrape off serial numbers from guns? so they can’t be traced

    Donna, a taggant identifies a batch of powder or explosive, it can not determine who bought or used the explosive.

    I will put it this way.
    Face powder is tagged, face powder is found on the sleeve of a body at a murder scene, how can you tell who wore the face powder?

  24. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG May 1, 2013 at 5:46 pm #

    scott e: actually bullets are little bombs

    Much in the same way a karate chop is like a motorcycle.

  25. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 5:46 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: I used to spank my children if they ran into the street, teaching them that running into the street results in pain, They ceased that after a few times of punishment

    My mother said, “If you don’t behave, you’ll have to eat broccoli.”

  26. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 5:49 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: Face powder is tagged, face powder is found on the sleeve of a body at a murder scene, how can you tell who wore the face powder?

    It’s called ‘computer databases.’ Look into it.

  27. avatar
    donna May 1, 2013 at 5:57 pm #

    Saynomorejoe “I used to spank my children”

    say no more, joe

    why not take them to the corner’s office or funeral homes to see autopsies of dead bodies ….. maybe of their relatives or friends?

    let all kids see the autopsy of that 2 year old

    how many parents would advocate their kids seeing the dead bodies of those kids in CT? they were dismembered and unrecognizable

    Saynomorejoe: Donna, a taggant identifies a batch of powder or explosive, it can not determine who bought or used the explosive.

    it can with records like in breast implants, joint replacements – why do criminals remove serial numbers on gun? so they can’t be traced

    that store in NH knew that Tamerlan bought three pounds of black powder and that
    shahzad purchased 288 M-88 firecrackers – without the photos, they could have been identified by the taggants

    tell me WHY there shouldn’t be taggants in black powder?

    WHY does the NRA say it’s OK to put taggants in plastic explosives but NOT in black powder?

  28. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 6:04 pm #

    donna: why not take them to the corner’s office or funeral homes to see autopsies of dead bodies

    I took my cat and dog to Dr. Frankenstein’s lab. “That’s what’ll happen to you if you don’t do as I say.”

    They both vocalized in unison, “Say no more, Joe.”

  29. avatar
    donna May 1, 2013 at 6:09 pm #

    The VIN number from a Ryder box truck rented by McVeigh linked him to the attack.

  30. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 6:09 pm #

    “Suspicious lunch box at MSCO construction site”

    The cold cuts spoiled.

  31. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 6:13 pm #

    donna: The VIN number from a Ryder box truck rented by McVeigh linked him to the attack.

    IIRC, the VIN was on the differential case.

  32. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: Advocate that the schools show the young children what happens to their bodies if they are shot, It might help!

    How about holding adults who leave unsecured and loaded firearms accessible to curious children responsible when something bad happens?

  33. avatar
    donna May 1, 2013 at 6:46 pm #

    CarlOrcas: How about holding adults who leave unsecured and loaded firearms accessible to curious children responsible when something bad happens?

    heaven forbid – that would deny them their 2nd amendment rights – what if a criminal came to the door 10 minutes after that 2-year old was killed?

    that mother was home with the kids – you don’t want to punish a mother home alone with kids (one dead), do ya? instead, regulate anyone with a uterus

  34. avatar
    Majority Will May 1, 2013 at 6:46 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Much in the same way a karate chop is like a motorcycle.

    🙂

  35. avatar
    nbc May 1, 2013 at 6:53 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: Face powder is tagged, face powder is found on the sleeve of a body at a murder scene, how can you tell who wore the face powder?

    By tracking who bought the face powder? Just like you would track a gun by its registration

  36. avatar
    nbc May 1, 2013 at 6:54 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: You have to expose children to the effects of guns before they understand the dangers.

    Why? There is no reasonable argument that we should expose our children to the effects of guns.

  37. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 7:02 pm #

    misha marinsky: Philadelphia prosecutor’s office: “We will not tolerate vigilantes.” I completely agree.

    just ask that prosecutor if he has the obligation to protect you , under the law?

    The only one that can protect you from criminal actions is your self, or do you think that the police should be in your home when the criminal breaks into your home?

  38. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 7:05 pm #

    CarlOrcas: How about holding adults who leave unsecured and loaded firearms accessible to curious children responsible when something bad happens?

    That is the law now, but do you think that the law will punish them more than their brain when they lose a child that way?

    When your child steals your car and crashes it and kill himself and his passengers, should you be prosecuted?

  39. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 7:15 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: That is the law now, but do you think that the law will punish them more than their brain when they lose a child that way?

    When your child steals your car and crashes it and kill himself and his passengers, should you be prosecuted?

    So…….if my wife and I go to dinner and I drink too much and lose control of our car on the way home, it crashes into a tree and she dies from her injuries and I survive but feel just terrible about what happened…….that’s enough for you?

  40. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 7:18 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: just ask that prosecutor if he has the obligation to protect you , under the law?

    The only one that can protect you from criminal actions is your self, or do you think that the police should be in your home when the criminal breaks into your home?

    Didn’t you say you weren’t a member of the NRA? You’ve certainly got all their patented talking points on the tip of your fingers.

  41. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 7:20 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: just ask that prosecutor if he has the obligation to protect you , under the law?

    They do have an obligation. It’s called 911. I’ve used it.

    Saynomorejoe: The only one that can protect you from criminal actions is your self, or do you think that the police should be in your home when the criminal breaks into your home?

    Judge Awards Damages In Japanese Youth’s Death

    A judge today awarded more than $650,000 in damages and funeral costs to the parents of a Japanese exchange student, saying there was “no justification whatsoever” for the killing of the 16-year-old boy who approached a suburban homeowner’s door in a Halloween costume almost two years ago.

    “There was absolutely no need to the resort of a dangerous weapon,” the judge told a crowded and silent courtroom.

    Mr. Peairs was at home with his family in October of 1992 when the student, Yoshihiro Hattori, and an American companion mistakenly rang his doorbell in search of a Halloween party. Mr. Peairs’s wife, Bonnie, answered and, frightened, yelled to her husband to get his gun. Mr. Peairs shot Mr. Hattori dead after warning him to “freeze,” a phrase the young man apparently did not understand.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/16/us/judge-awards-damages-in-japanese-youth-s-death.html

  42. avatar
    donna May 1, 2013 at 7:24 pm #

    Saynomorejoe :When your child steals your car and crashes it and kill himself and his passengers, should you be prosecuted?

    when you host a party in your home and people leave drunk, you’re responsible

    you’re responsible if you allow underage drinkers to drink in your home

    Remember this: The person legally responsible for the intoxicated individual is “the hand that served the drink” like a bartender

    That rule of thumb can mean a bar or bartender is liable if a bar patron becomes legally intoxicated and gets in an accident.

    i was recently on a plane with a passenger who was drunk when he entered the plane – when he asked for a drink (seated in 1st class), they told him NO

  43. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 7:30 pm #

    donna:
    CarlOrcas: How about holding adults who leave unsecured and loaded firearms accessible to curious children responsible when something bad happens?

    heaven forbid – that would deny them their 2nd amendment rights – what if a criminal came to the door 10 minutes after that 2-year old was killed?

    that mother was home with the kids – you don’t want to punish a mother home alone with kids (one dead), do ya? instead, regulate anyone with a uterus

    Guns are more important than human lives.

  44. avatar
    J.D. Sue May 1, 2013 at 7:39 pm #

    misha marinsky: They do have an obligation


    I’d be curious to know whether there is anywhere in America where the police have any legal obligation to protect people, except when those people are already within police custody.

  45. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 8:00 pm #

    J.D. Sue: I’d be curious to know whether there is anywhere in America where the police have any legal obligation to protect people, except when those people are already within police custody.

    Joe and the NRA are advocating vigilante justice. The Stand Your Ground law worked out perfectly in Florida.

  46. avatar
    donna May 1, 2013 at 8:03 pm #

    misha marinsky: The Stand Your Ground law worked out perfectly in Florida.

    hey, i would hire myself out (for free) to victims of spousal abuse who are afraid to stand their ground – i wouldn’t be afraid

  47. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 8:21 pm #

    J.D. Sue: —
    I’d be curious to know whether there is anywhere in America where the police have any legal obligation to protect people, except when those people are already within police custody.

    This is an old argument from the NRA playbook.

    If, for the sake of discussion, there were such a law on the books in a small community just exactly how would the community fathers go about fulfilling that obligation?

    How about a police officer assigned to every person, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, with orders to stay within six feet of the person? That would work.

    I wonder how the NRA would feel about that solution?

  48. avatar
    J.D. Sue May 1, 2013 at 8:21 pm #

    misha marinsky: Joe and the NRA are advocating vigilante justice. The Stand Your Ground law worked out perfectly in Florida.

    —-
    “Vigilante justice” is not justice.

    That said, one would be mistaken to think the police have any obligation, or can be relied upon, to protect you.

  49. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 8:21 pm #

    CarlOrcas: So…….if my wife and I go to dinner and I drink too much and lose control of our car on the way home, it crashes into a tree and she dies from her injuries and I survive but feel just terrible about what happened…….that’s enough for you?

    If your child steals your car and kills someone, is that not like a child stealing a gun and killing some one?

  50. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 8:23 pm #

    donna:
    Saynomorejoe :When your child steals your car and crashes it and kill himself and his passengers, should you be prosecuted?

    when you host a party in your home and people leave drunk, you’re responsible

    you’re responsible if you allow underage drinkers to drink in your home

    Remember this: The person legally responsible for the intoxicated individual is “the hand that served the drink” like a bartender

    That rule of thumb can mean a bar or bartender is liable if a bar patron becomes legally intoxicated and gets in an accident.

    i was recently on a plane with a passenger who was drunk when he entered the plane – when he asked for a drink (seated in 1st class), they told him NO

    And that, somehow, correlates with stealing an article and killing someone with it?

  51. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 8:26 pm #

    donna: hey, i would hire myself out (for free) to victims of spousal abuse who are afraid to stand their ground – i wouldn’t be afraid

    I was once in the ER with severe asthma. A woman came in by ambulance, black & blue and bruises all over. Her boyfriend beat her up.

  52. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 8:27 pm #

    donna:
    misha marinsky: The Stand Your Ground law worked out perfectly in Florida.

    hey, i would hire myself out (for free) to victims of spousal abuse who are afraid to stand their ground – i wouldn’t be afraid

    Then, Donna, you have not seen enough people killed to be afraid.. It is easy to talk bravery, but the ability to walk down a black alley in a bad neighborhood is a rare thing.

  53. avatar
    J.D. Sue May 1, 2013 at 8:33 pm #

    CarlOrcas: This is an old argument from the NRA playbook.

    No doubt. And of course, I would not want the police to have such an obligation, for the reasons you suggest. Regardless, the fact remains, they have no obligation to protect you and can’t be relied upon to do so. This is a reality. And in Chicago, we have the additional reality that the police themselves often present a danger.

  54. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 1, 2013 at 8:35 pm #

    misha marinsky: Joe and the NRA are advocating vigilante justice. The Stand Your Ground law worked out perfectly in Florida.

    the only way that San Francisco got rid of the criminal elements in its early days was with “vigilante justice”

  55. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 8:39 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: If your child steals your car and kills someone, is that not like a child stealing a gun and killing some one?

    In the instant case we are talking about parental negligence: A loaded firearm left immediately accessible to a five year old child.

    The same circumstances could exist with a car but it would be far more difficult for a small child to get a car on the road, Picking up a firearm and pulling the trigger is easy……even for a little kid.

  56. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 8:40 pm #

    J.D. Sue: —

    No doubt.And of course, I would not want the police to have such an obligation, for the reasons you suggest. Regardless, the fact remains, they have no obligation to protect you and can’t be relied upon to do so.This is a reality.And in Chicago, we have the additional reality that the police themselves often present a danger.

    You are absolutely correct. It’s a crazy argument met to support a problematic response to an irrational fear.

  57. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 8:44 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: the only way that San Francisco got rid of the criminal elements in its early days was with “vigilante justice”

    Overblown myth. The SF Committee of Viigilance was active twice, for three months each time, in the 1850’s. They hanged a grand total of 8 people.

  58. avatar
    donna May 1, 2013 at 8:46 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Picking up a firearm and pulling the trigger is easy……even for a little kid.

    the gun in question was a gift when he was FOUR “last year” – it was The Crickett – the website features three different .22-caliber rifle models for kids, with shoulder stock colors ranging from pink to red, white and blue swirls. “My first rifle” is the company’s slogan.

  59. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 8:47 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: Then, Donna, you have not seen enough people killed to be afraid..It is easy to talk bravery, but the ability to walk down a black alley in a bad neighborhoodis a rare thing.

    Couple questions Joe:

    How many people have you seen “killed”? Not war but on the streets of America.

    And how much time do (did you) spend “walking down a black alley in a bad neighborhood”……..and why?

  60. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 8:50 pm #

    donna:
    CarlOrcas: Picking up a firearm and pulling the trigger is easy……even for a little kid.

    the gun in question was a gift when he was FOUR “last year” – it was The Crickett – the website features three different .22-caliber rifle models for kids, with shoulder stock colors ranging from pink to red, white and blue swirls. “My first rifle” is the company’s slogan.

    I have no problem with kids be familiarized with firearms…..in a responsible way by responsible adults.

    Leaving a loaded rifle in the corner of the living room is neither.

  61. avatar
    Keith May 1, 2013 at 8:52 pm #

    I think maybe everybody has this bomb at the MCSO thing all wrong.

    I heard it was a BoM.

  62. avatar
    misha marinsky May 1, 2013 at 8:55 pm #

    CarlOrcas: And how much time do (did you) spend “walking down a black alley in a bad neighborhood”……..and why?

    Joe was looking to score some stuff.

  63. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 1, 2013 at 9:01 pm #

    misha marinsky: Joe was looking to score some stuff.

    Metamucil?

  64. avatar
    Dave B. May 1, 2013 at 11:49 pm #

    Couldn’t they just pitch another tent?

  65. avatar
    misha marinsky May 2, 2013 at 12:16 am #

    Dave B.: Couldn’t they just pitch another tent?

    Only if the crew was wearing pink underwear.

  66. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 1:34 am #

    CarlOrcas: Couple questions Joe:

    How many people have you seen “killed”? Not war but on the streets of America.

    And how much time do (did you) spend “walking down a black alley in a bad neighborhood”……..and why?

    Three, and made a citizens arrest on one murder and testified an convicted the man

    And I was on permanent shore patrol for six months in the SF, penisula during ww2, and yes i had to walk down black alleys in bad areas to get the sailors out of bad situation.
    And yes I carried a baton and a loaded 45 with bullet in chamber, but never had to fire it in anger.

    And the murder happened in my presence after the war in San Diego! I was a big boozer and womanizer in those days!

  67. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 1:39 am #

    misha marinsky: Joe was looking to score some stuff.

    Scoring stuff, if it was done, was in Mexico, Morphine was available in my neighborhood and one of my friends was addicted. My dope was alcohol, Rum with a Gin Chaser, or Gin with a rum chaser, until I discovered it is better to not drink until 12 at night and let the other people buy the girls the drinks and then I found out the girls liked sober people more than drunken people.

  68. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 1:42 am #

    donna:
    CarlOrcas: Picking up a firearm and pulling the trigger is easy……even for a little kid.

    the gun in question was a gift when he was FOUR “last year” – it was The Crickett – the website features three different .22-caliber rifle models for kids, with shoulder stock colors ranging from pink to red, white and blue swirls. “My first rifle” is the company’s slogan.

    My wife has a hard time pulling the trigger on my 1917 Army Colt, and no kid could pull it, and would have a hard time lifting it.

    By the way a child is anyone under 21!

  69. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 1:44 am #

    May I ask again why people think it is necessary to comment on the poster instead of the posting. Is it the only way you can express your opinions without telling the truth?

  70. avatar
    Arthur May 2, 2013 at 1:46 am #

    Saynomorejoe: shore patrol for six months in the SF, penisula

    What is the “SF, penisula”(sic)? At first glance, I was thinking San Francisco, now I’m not sure.

  71. avatar
    Arthur May 2, 2013 at 1:49 am #

    Saynomorejoe: and then I found out the girls liked sober people more than drunken people.

    What about good looks and lots of money?

  72. avatar
    misha marinsky May 2, 2013 at 2:03 am #

    Saynomorejoe: then I found out the girls liked sober people more than drunken people.

    What if they have your brains and my looks? [apologies to GB Shaw]

  73. avatar
    nbc May 2, 2013 at 2:11 am #

    Saynomorejoe: May I ask again why people think it is necessary to comment on the poster instead of the posting. Is it the only way you can express your opinions without telling the truth?

    Because the posting contains little of relevance and is devoid of logic or reason? And because the poster has shown itself to be rather foolish.

  74. avatar
    Majority Will May 2, 2013 at 2:49 am #

    nbc: Because the posting contains little of relevance and is devoid of logic or reason? And because the poster has shown itself to be rather foolish.

    Or because there might be a desperately lonely, delusional lunatic and deliberately asinine troll on a ridiculous political smear campaign with an admitted racist and bigoted agenda who is not worth addressing. Either way.

  75. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 2:55 am #

    donna:
    Saynomorejoe “I used to spank my children”

    say no more, joe

    why not take them to the corner’s office or funeral homes to see autopsies of dead bodies ….. maybe of their relatives or friends?

    let all kids see the autopsy of that 2 year old

    how many parents would advocate their kids seeing the dead bodies of those kids in CT? they were dismembered and unrecognizable

    Saynomorejoe: Donna, a taggant identifies a batch of powder or explosive, it can not determine who bought or used the explosive.

    it can with records like in breast implants, joint replacements – why do criminals remove serial numbers on gun? so they can’t be traced

    that store in NH knew that Tamerlan bought three pounds of black powder and that
    shahzad purchased 288 M-88 firecrackers – without the photos, they could have been identified by the taggants

    tell me WHY there shouldn’t be taggants in black powder?

    WHY does the NRA say it’s OK to put taggants in plastic explosives but NOT in black powder?

    Sure there should be black powder using taggants because black powder is seldom used in cartridges, in fact, you don’t even need a permit to use a black powder weapon.

    You can make black powder in your garage with three elements and a little work.

    So that wipes out the taggants doesn’t it.

    If fact , you can make rocket propellents in your kitchen!

    As to how they found out he bought fire works they found the items, and then he probably bought them with his welfare credit card!

  76. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 3:00 am #

    It is important to realize that you can not prevent accidental death or murder if it happens.

    You can prevent it by hiding in your home, until your home is invaded and then you are dead.

    You are going to die, when it is your time to die, so stop worrying about those rare things like being shot!

    When the end comes , face it , and expect it to arrive at some time of your life.

    You are not immortal, so why try to be!

  77. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 3:05 am #

    As an extension of the last post, one of my close friend spent 9 months as a combat infantry man in Europe, and I asked him how he could do it, He was bayonted three times.

    He said the feeling is just this! You are dead before you attack so you can not die in the attack, as you are already dead, and if you come out alive it is a benefit to come back to life!

    And that is a true statement of that particular sargeant in the US Army in WW2

  78. avatar
    G May 2, 2013 at 4:26 am #

    Now you are being ridiculously over dramatic in your little “there’s nothing you can do to prevent”…line of irrationality here.

    The likelihood of accidents (and accidental death as a result) is greatly reduced by taking measures to make your household safe and less of a “death trap”. Sure, you can’t prevent all possibilities of slip-and-falls or such. However, sensible people will keep their smoke detectors working, reasonably lock up their firearms, keep toxic substances as much out of reach of little, curious kids access as possible, not leave dangerous wires and other things lying about, clear obstacles off of steps, etc, etc.

    Other than that, only a certain percentage of people live in dangerous neighborhoods. Locking one’s doors & windows, having proper lighting and if deemed necessary, a security system, are usually adequate in many situations. That isn’t “hiding” in one’s house by any means. That is simply leading a sensible and normal life.

    The only true “your time to die” is death due to natural causes. Every other form of death is a premature unfortunate event. A good number of those types of situations might be able to be prevented or mitigated.

    Nothing wrong with someone properly owning and storing some weaponry in their home for their own protection, for dealing with a certain variety of invasive critters on one’s property, or for hunting. But unless you really are living in an “unsafe” neighborhood, the likelihood of being shot or even of a break-in while you are at the home is quite low….and that doesn’t require “hiding” in your home to make it so either.

    Saynomorejoe:
    It is important to realize that you can not prevent accidental death or murder if it happens.

    You can prevent it by hiding in your home, until your home is invaded and then you are dead.

    You are going to die, when it is your time to die, so stop worrying about those rare things like being shot!

    When the end comes , face it , and expect it to arrive at some time of your life.

    You are not immortal, so why try to be!

    Agreed.

    CarlOrcas: I have no problem with kids be familiarized with firearms…..in a responsible way by responsible adults.

    Leaving a loaded rifle in the corner of the living room is neither.

    I’m assuming by black here, you are simply meaning dark because it is unlit…and not implying some racial connotation for feeling “unsafe”…

    …regardless of being armed or not, who in their right mind would think it wise to go trolling around unlit alleys in unsafe neighborhoods in the first place? That’s just foolish and asking for trouble – again, whether you are armed or not.

    Saynomorejoe: It is easy to talk bravery, but the ability to walk down a black alley in a bad neighborhood is a rare thing.

  79. avatar
    G May 2, 2013 at 4:28 am #

    Cynically, I see most of their positions as nothing more that really being very scare- based and pushy, profit-motive based; as they have become little more than a slick sales and lobbyist arm of the guns and ammo industry.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The extreme positions of the NRA aren’t about hunting, sporting or personal protection. They are about armed insurrection should the fringe conclude that the government has become oppressive. They want to make it difficult for the government to deal with what I would call domestic terrorists, and they would call freedom fighters.

  80. avatar
    Scientist May 2, 2013 at 6:52 am #

    Saynomorejoe: Then, Donna, you have not seen enough people killed to be afraid.. It is easy to talk bravery, but the ability to walk down a black alley in a bad neighborhood is a rare thing.

    I worked in East Baltimore at a famous medical school in the late 1980s, at the height of the crack-fueled crime epidemic. As a lowly post-doc I was not eligible for a coveted spot in the hospital garages, so I had to park on the street. I could tell some stories, but this isn’t the time or the place.

  81. avatar
    Scientist May 2, 2013 at 7:02 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The extreme positions of the NRA aren’t about hunting, sporting or personal protection. They are about armed insurrection should the fringe conclude that the government has become oppressive. They want to make it difficult for the government to deal with what I would call domestic terrorists, and they would call freedom fighters.

    The government has stealth bombers, helicopters, bunker busting bombs, GPS satellites, drones, nukes, chemical and biological weapons and the ability to intercept all communications just for a start. Good luck with an AR-15s. The “revolutionaries” will neither see nor hear the targeted missile as it takes them out.

    Besides, if you are a “revolutionary”, then, by definition, you should prefer to own an illegal, rather than a legal weapon. A true “revolutionary” should support an outright ban on owning weapons so that they could own one illegally and thumb their nose at The Man.

  82. avatar
    Keith May 2, 2013 at 7:34 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The extreme positions of the NRA aren’t about hunting, sporting or personal protection. They are about armed insurrection should the fringe conclude that the government has become oppressive. They want to make it difficult for the government to deal with what I would call domestic terrorists, and they would call freedom fighters.

    The NRA has been owned, lock, stock, and barrel, (pun intended) but the arms manufacturing lobby since the coup in the 80’s (I think it was… perhaps 70’s?).

    It is nothing more than a propaganda tool these days. It really hasn’t been about hunting or sporting endeavors at all in all that time.

  83. avatar
    misha marinsky May 2, 2013 at 8:18 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The extreme positions of the NRA aren’t about hunting, sporting or personal protection. They are about armed insurrection should the fringe conclude that the government has become oppressive. They want to make it difficult for the government to deal with what I would call domestic terrorists, and they would call freedom fighters.

    ‘Armed revolution to protect liberties’ may soon be necessary, 44% of Republicans say

    A Fairleigh Dickinson University poll found nearly half of Republican respondents believe a gun-fueled rebellion may soon be a reality. Only 18% of Democrats agreed.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/armed-revolution-44-republicans-article-1.1332621#ixzz2S8YVThVe

  84. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG May 2, 2013 at 8:39 am #

    All the NRA does is perpetuate the unfair stereotype that all gun owners are unbalanced RWNJs, who own at least 14 heavy assault rifles.

  85. avatar
    MattR May 2, 2013 at 11:25 am #

    G: Cynically, I see most of their positions as nothing more that really being very scare- based and pushy, profit-motive based; as they have become little more than a slick sales and lobbyist arm of the guns and ammo industry.

    Exactly this. The NR Ais nothing more than a lobbying organization for gun manufacturers. They don’t care about hunting or self defense or armed insurrection or any of those talking points. They just want to create conditions that allows those gun makers to sell more weapons.

    Scientist: I worked in East Baltimore at a famous medical school in the late 1980s, at the height of the crack-fueled crime epidemic

    Neighborhood was still kinda crappy in the mid-late 90’s, but considerably better than it was 10 years before.

  86. avatar
    Rickey May 2, 2013 at 12:31 pm #

    Saynomorejoe:

    And I was on permanent shore patrol for six months in the SF, penisula during ww2, and yesi had to walk down black alleys in bad areas to get the sailors out of bad situation.
    And yes I carried a baton and a loaded 45 with bullet in chamber, but never had to fire it in anger.

    Nobody questions the right of trained and qualified peace officers to carry loaded weapons.

  87. avatar
    Rickey May 2, 2013 at 12:43 pm #

    Here is my gun story. While in the Navy in 1968 I read an article in Stars and Stripes about a female college student in Arizona. She was, as I recall, a sophomore at Arizona State University, living at home, and she was dating a man several years older than her. She went out with her boyfriend on a Saturday night and didn’t get home until 4:00 a.m. Sunday morning.

    That afternoon her very angry father put the young woman and her dog into a pickup truck and drove them out to the desert. When they got out of the truck, he handed a loaded pistol to his daughter and told her that as punishment for staying out so late she had to shoot and kill her dog.

    Instead of shooting her dog, she pointed the gun at her temple and blew her brains out.

    A couple of weeks ago it was reported that there have been more than 3300 shooting deaths in the United States since Newtown. That’s more people than were killed on 9/11.

  88. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 2, 2013 at 12:46 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: It is important to realize that you can not prevent accidental death or murder if it happens.

    You’re right. You can’t “prevent” something after it happens.

    However a prudent person can take reasonable precautions to reduce the possibilities, don’t you agree?

  89. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 2, 2013 at 1:00 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: Three, and made a citizens arrest on one murder and testified an convicted the man

    A citizens arrest for murder? OK.

    Saynomorejoe: And I was on permanent shore patrol for six months in the SF, penisula during ww2, and yes i had to walk down black alleys in bad areas to get the sailors out of bad situation.
    And yes I carried a baton and a loaded 45 with bullet in chamber, but never had to fire it in anger.

    Two questions:

    What is a “black alley”?

    And I assume you are talking about a 45 ACP? If so did you know anyone who DIDN’T carry it without a round in the chamber?

  90. avatar
    nbc May 2, 2013 at 1:03 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: It is important to realize that you can not prevent accidental death or murder if it happens.

    You can prevent it by hiding in your home, until your home is invaded and then you are dead.

    Of course you can prevent it. Gun ownership has been shown to be a big component so the question now becomes: compared to the relatively rare home invasion with murder, what is the value of gun ownership?

    Guns come at a significant cost to society, just look at the 2 year old shot by her 5 year old brother who had been given a ‘toy’ gun…

    There are many such stories… And even if you need a weapon to protect your home, why do you need a military style assault weapon with high capacity, which has only one function: to kill as many people in as little time.

    Gun owners need to realize that their ‘needs’ come with a high price tag.

  91. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 2, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: My wife has a hard time pulling the trigger on my 1917 Army Colt, and no kid could pull it, and would have a hard time lifting it.

    By the way a child is anyone under 21!

    Most kids aren’t going to be dealing with old pistols like yours. In this case the child used a long gun designed and marketing to children.

    As far as “anyone under 21” being a child that’s not exactly correct. Check it out.

  92. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 2, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

    Arthur: What is the “SF, penisula”(sic)? At first glance, I was thinking San Francisco, now I’m not sure.

    I suspect he means the city/county of San Francisco and the San Mateo peninsula south of SF. But that’s just a guess.

  93. avatar
    CarlOrcas May 2, 2013 at 1:41 pm #

    JPotter:
    “Saynomore” is [Redacted. Doc.]. He’s been spotted in these parts before. He’s old, lonely, and bored.

    And an admitted prevaricator it would appear from this message to you (I assume) on Amazon from last November:

    “J. Potter, I have told you that I believe little , and protest much, lie to entertain myself, and am here to just aggravate the obots, who otherwise would have a little clique of people telling themselves they are smarter than the world and should be believed in all thing.”

    Charming.

  94. avatar
    nbc May 2, 2013 at 2:36 pm #

    JPotter: “Saynomore” is [Redacted. Doc.] He’s been spotted in these parts before. He’s old, lonely, and bored.

    I hope that ‘outing’ people is not encouraged on this blog. I want to believe that people have the privilege to be posting under whatever assumed name they wish.

    Just my $0.02…

    As to him being old and bored, his own writings do support such a conclusion. And bitter… very bitter. And somewhat irritated that our Country refuses to submit itself to a “Creator”. I personally find the concept of natural law to be as being somehow the ‘TRUTH’ to be quite useless as we should not look at a ‘Creator’ to guide us in how we behave. There are few absolute truths and few have any relevance to the citizenship of our President.

    Reason and logic dictate that one accepts that a sovereign state reserves the right to define who are and are not its citizens and given that there is no universal standard on who are citizens, all undermines the notion that International Law guides the status.

    The best way to reconcile would be the recognition that at birth a child can be born with more than one citizenship due to conflicting laws and that the child, when reaching the age of majority can decide which one to pursue.

    It combines the right of the nation to claim children as its citizens while also providing the child, when reaching adulthood, to reject or accept.

    In my readings of 19th century articles on citizenship, I see few examples which insist on International Law as the foundation. And for good reason, people like Vattel understood that the right for a sovereign nation to define citizenship is not one of international law but one of municipal law.

    The question of “allegiance” and “subject to the jurisdiction” has raised some interesting questions as to who are included. From a common law perspective the answer is clear, but there are those who have argued that it excludes transients or those not lawfully in the country.
    I can accept that transients, tourists so to speak, may be excluded on this basis, although that would require a somewhat specific definition of these terms. However, anyone who moves to our country for indeterminate time and resides in our nation and who has offspring, and gives birth to a baby, would find such a baby to be born under allegiance and subject to our jurisdiction and thus a natural born. This would include children born to illegal aliens who reside in our nation.

    Plyler v Doe, 1982 outlines

    nstead, use of the phrase “within its jurisdiction” confirms the understanding that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protection extends to anyone, citizen or stranger, who is subject to the laws of a State, and reaches into every corner of a State’s territory.

    And taking the logic further, subject to our jurisdiction and within our jurisdiction have been found to be overlapping.

    Citing US v Wong Kim Ark, the court found

    Although we have not previously focused on the intended meaning of this phrase, we have had occasion to examine the first sentence of the Fourteenth Amendment, which provides that “[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States. . . .” (Emphasis added.) Justice Gray, writing for the Court in United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U. S. 649 (1898), detailed at some length the history of the Citizenship Clause, and the predominantly geographic sense in which the term “jurisdiction” was used. He further noted that it was
    “impossible to construe the words ‘subject to the jurisdiction thereof,’ in the opening sentence [of the Fourteenth Amendment], as less comprehensive than the words ‘within its jurisdiction,’ in the concluding sentence of the same section; or to hold that persons ‘within the jurisdiction’ of one of the States of the Union are not ‘subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.'”

    So the issue of children born to illegal aliens and aliens appears to have been resolved.

  95. avatar
    Rickey May 2, 2013 at 3:06 pm #

    Bob Davis, a right-wing radio host on Twin Cities News Talk in Minneapolis, a Clear Channel station, said that he’d like to tell the parents of Sandy Hook victims to “go to hell” for infringing on his Second Amendment rights. He also said, “I’m sorry that you suffered a tragedy, but you know what? Deal with it, and don’t force me to lose my liberty, which is a greater tragedy than your loss.”

    http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/tv/204097941.html?refer=y

  96. avatar
    Deborah May 2, 2013 at 3:16 pm #

    I wonder how Arpaio would feel if he got a dose of his own medicine. Something like this:

    People with hero complexes, like some firefighters, set fires just to put them out. I think that’s an adequate innuendo comparable to his claims of the birth certificate being false.

  97. avatar
    G May 2, 2013 at 3:42 pm #

    What a despicable, selfish POS. If some crazy person did that to his family and kids…I seriously doubt he’d be singing the same tune…and I also highly doubt that the armchair wannabe warrior would have any success in stopping such a tragedy from taking his family either. He’d probably only succeed in pissing himself.

    Rickey:
    Bob Davis, a right-wing radio host on Twin Cities News Talk in Minneapolis, a Clear Channel station, said that he’d like to tell the parents of Sandy Hook victims to “go to hell” for infringing on his Second Amendment rights. He also said, “I’m sorry that you suffered a tragedy, but you know what? Deal with it, and don’t force me to lose my liberty, which is a greater tragedy than your loss.”

    http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/tv/204097941.html?refer=y

  98. avatar
    misha marinsky May 2, 2013 at 3:45 pm #

    Rickey: Instead of shooting her dog, she pointed the gun at her temple and blew her brains out.

    That was her mistake. She should have shot her father, and then stayed out as late as she wanted.

    Mark Twain – If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. That is the difference between a dog and a man.

    I dote on Max and Angel, both from shelters.

  99. avatar
    misha marinsky May 2, 2013 at 3:46 pm #

    Rickey: Bob Davis, a right-wing radio host on Twin Cities News Talk in Minneapolis, a Clear Channel station, said that he’d like to tell the parents of Sandy Hook victims to “go to hell” for infringing on his Second Amendment rights.

    I have no use for 2nd Amendment absolutists. I wish the same thing on him.

  100. avatar
    Rickey May 2, 2013 at 3:49 pm #

    Saynomorejoe:

    The, for some reason, the crazy started shooting children, the nation banned weapons, and now the police are allowed to be armed, and the citizens are jailed for defending themselve with any kind of weapon.

    You want that here?

    I would like us to be more like Australia, which enacted tough gun control laws in 1996. Since then gun-related homicides are down 59%, gun-related suicides are down 65%, and Australia has not had a single mass shooting in the past 16 years.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/03/us-usa-guns-australia-idUSBRE9320C720130403

  101. avatar
    G May 2, 2013 at 3:49 pm #

    I disagree that this constitutes an “outing” at all, as his multiple online identities and pathetic trolling motives have been “outed” a long time ago and across many forums. This wasn’t any reveal of any actual personal information of significance that invades his privacy at all…just general basics that he himself has put out there.

    Connecting the dots between his well-established socks and revealed motives is simply a well-earned reminder to folks who might not realize that his whole purpose is to be a jackwipe for the sole pathetic sake of being a jackwipe.

    Intentional rabble-rousing trolling deserves to be repeatedly called out for what it is, IMHO. So kudos to those who put the reminder out there. The loser trolls hope for short memories on the internet to find their suckers. They deserve to be called out for what they are. Repeatedly.

    nbc:

    I hope that ‘outing’ people is not encouraged on this blog. I want to believe that people have the privilege to be posting under whatever assumed name they wish.

    Just my $0.02…

  102. avatar
    donna May 2, 2013 at 3:51 pm #

    Rickey: “I’m sorry that you suffered a tragedy, but you know what? Deal with it, and don’t force me to lose my liberty, which is a greater tragedy than your loss.”

    i too feel the same outrage – keep your guns – kill & commit suicide with abandon – who cares? the government can getcha from miles away and listen to and read your every communication – what good will your “47 guns and over $100,000 in ammunition” be? just leave my uterus alone – don’t force me to lose my liberty; don’t sanction state sponsored rape; and don’t allow the government (or church) to come between me and my doctor

  103. avatar
    misha marinsky May 2, 2013 at 4:20 pm #

    Speaking of conspiracies: State Rep. Stella Tremblay (R-Auburn) told a conservative talk show host Tuesday that she knows the federal government was behind the attacks because Jeff Bauman, a bombing victim who helped identify the suspects, was not “screaming in agony” after both his legs were blown off.

    Tremblay, a tea party member with ties to the birther movement, made the remarks about Bauman after causing a stir with her marathon bombing government conspiracy theory. She said photos of the bombing showed intact backpacks, which she said should have been destroyed if they contained bombs. Last week, she posted a comment on Glenn Beck’s Facebook page saying the federal government caused the bombing. She has resisted calls to resign over the post.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/01/stella-tremblay-jeff-bauman_n_3196131.html

  104. avatar
    G May 2, 2013 at 4:53 pm #

    Ugh! There is something seriously wrong with the mentality and callousness of these delusional paranoid a**wipes….sick. Just sick.

    misha marinsky:
    Speaking of conspiracies: State Rep. Stella Tremblay (R-Auburn) told a conservative talk show host Tuesday that she knows the federal government was behind the attacks because Jeff Bauman, a bombing victim who helped identify the suspects, was not “screaming in agony” after both his legs were blown off.

    Tremblay, a tea party member with ties to the birther movement, made the remarks about Bauman after causing a stir with her marathon bombing government conspiracy theory. She said photos of the bombing showed intact backpacks, which she said should have been destroyed if they contained bombs. Last week, she posted a comment on Glenn Beck’s Facebook page saying the federal government caused the bombing. She has resisted calls to resign over the post.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/01/stella-tremblay-jeff-bauman_n_3196131.html

  105. avatar
    donna May 2, 2013 at 5:03 pm #

    speaking of arpaio: Obama Eligibility Case With Sheriff Joe Arpaio Obama Identity Document Fraud Affidavit At Florida Supreme Court

    Attorney Larry Klayman and Plaintiff Mike Voeltz have submitted their final Petition for Writ of Mandamus on the deadline day of 4-29-13. The original case was dismissed for all the wrong reasons, making it eminently appealable. They have been keeping this case low profile lately, but are in action again to meet the filing deadline. – George Miller @ Obama Ballot Challenge.

    “The eligibility of Respondent Obama must be dealt with now.”

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/05/eligibility-case-with-sheriff-joe-obama.html

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/139032306/Voeltz-v-Obama-Petition-for-Writ-of-Mandamus-Obama-Identity-Fraud-Florida-Supreme-Court-4-29-2013

  106. avatar
    Dave B. May 2, 2013 at 5:04 pm #

    Yeah, my Mama didn’t buy that story. When my father’s legs were crushed (to be subsequently amputated above the knee), he didn’t freak out either. He wrapped his belt around one leg for a tourniquet, and got one of the bystanders, who were apparently freaking out more than he was, to tourniquet the other one.

    misha marinsky: Speaking of conspiracies: State Rep. Stella Tremblay (R-Auburn) told a conservative talk show host Tuesday that she knows the federal government was behind the attacks because Jeff Bauman, a bombing victim who helped identify the suspects, was not “screaming in agony” after both his legs were blown off.

  107. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 5:11 pm #

    Rickey: I would like us to be more like Australia, which enacted tough gun control laws in 1996. Since then gun-related homicides are down 59%, gun-related suicides are down 65%, and Australia has not had a single mass shooting in the past 16 years.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/03/us-usa-guns-australia-idUSBRE9320C720130403

    http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/mr/21-40/mr21.html

    “While gun related homicide has dropped to an historic low of 13%, the proportion of people dying through stab wounds has increased from 30% to 41% over the last 10 years ”

    So when people don’t have guns they use knives and the same thing happens!

    Before there were any guns at all, were there any homicides?

    http://andrewhammel.typepad.com/german_joys/2007/04/german_murder_r.html

    “Obviously, the graph shows only ordinary civilian murder rates. Wars and mass extermination programs are excluded. The developments in Germany mirror those in other European states. The medieval era, in addition to being smelly, was extremely violent and dangerous; in most places, the murder rate was between 20 and 100 per 100,000. ”

    Oh, it couldn’t have been that high because they didn’t have those horrid guns!

    Right!

    It might be that the right to have a gun to protect yourself might have lowered the murder rate after the middle ages!

    Is’t that amusing!

  108. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 5:24 pm #

    CarlOrcas: A citizens arrest for murder? OK.

    Two questions:

    What is a “black alley”?

    And I assume you are talking about a 45 ACP? If so did you know anyone who DIDN’T carry it without a round in the chamber?

    It was a dark alley that was referred to, and yes , indeed, even today , the people are expected to not have a round in the chamber when walking patrols.

    I agree ti is stupid, but that is what stupity teachs. The services did not even allow cartridges in the weapons when waliking some protective beachs or warehouse.

    And example was the Lebanon bombing of the Marine barracks where the guards were without cartridges for their weapons . apparently to remove the danger of accidental discharge.

    But that was then , and this is now.

  109. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 5:30 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: It was a dark alley that was referred to, and yes , indeed, even today , the people are expected to not have a round in the chamber when walking patrols.

    I agree ti is stupid, but that is what stupity teachs.The services did not even allow cartridges in the weapons when waliking some protective beachs or warehouse.

    And example was the Lebanon bombing of the Marine barracks where the guards were without cartridges for their weapons. apparently to remove the danger of accidental discharge.

    But that was then , and this is now.

    I interecepted the murderer leaving the scene , removed his weapon, and detained him until the police arrived, although , I admit, I did want to kill him at the time! guy fired through the window of the bar, and I ran outside to catch him, after seeing the victim shot in the neck with blood spurting out!.

    You don’t have to believe it though.

  110. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 5:34 pm #

    Dave B.:
    Yeah, my Mama didnt buy that story.When my fathers legs were crushed (to be subsequently amputated above the knee), he didnt freak out either.He wrapped his belt around one leg for a tourniquet, and got one of the bystanders, who were apparently freaking out more than he was, to tourniquet the other one.

    I agree, there was a gang banger shown on tv, and as he was pulling a revolver out of his waist band the weapon fired, and he looked around and said , I shot myself, get an ambulance, and showed absolutely no pain from the wound!

  111. avatar
    Paper May 2, 2013 at 5:38 pm #

    Yes, well, if you open the actual document behind your link, you would read that:

    “The homicide rate in Australia remains at an historical low (see Figure 2). In the most recent year (2009-10), the rate was calculated at 1.2 incidents per 100,000 and remains the lowest ever recorded in the NHMP. Since the AIC began collecting data for the NHMP in 1989-90, there has been an overall decrease of approximately 16 percent (n=307 cf 257) in the overall number of homicide incidents (see Figure 1).”

    Saynomorejoe: http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/mr/21-40/mr21.html

    “While gun related homicide has dropped to an historic low of 13%, the proportion of people dying through stab wounds has increased from 30% to 41% over the last 10 years ”

    So when people don’t have guns they use knives and the same thing happens!

  112. avatar
    Scientist May 2, 2013 at 5:47 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: Before there were any guns at all, were there any homicides?

    No one suggests that even if we got rid of all guns there wouldn’t be homicides. The goal is to reduce, not eliminate them. Also keep in mind that gun suicides are equal or greater in number to gun homicides. And yes, there are many ways to kill oneself, but few are as effective as guns. Take them away and the suicidal will try pills or slitting their wrists and the reality is that most times people survive those (and in most cases with little permanent damage), but few survive a gun to the head.

    Your argument is the equivalent of saying that drunk driving is not a problem because sober people can have accidents too.

    Remember, on the day of Newtown, a crazy guy went into a pre-school in China with a knife. He injured about 20 kids and teachers. All survived. Imagine how many Newtown parents would still have their kids if Lanza had had a knife instead of guns.

  113. avatar
    Slartibartfast May 2, 2013 at 5:52 pm #

    There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and birthers quoting statistics.

    The statistics you quoted don’t make any sense without context, so I followed the link you posted to see where it came from. Imagine my surprise when I found that you had cherry picked your quote… if you preface your quote with this paragraph:

    There has been a steady decrease over the past three decades of homicides within Australia. Over the latest two year reporting period, there were 510 homicide incidents involving 541 victims and 611 offenders. Following a decline in the number of incidents, victims and offenders in 2008–09 over the previously published 2007–08 figures, there was a marginal increase in the number of homicides in 2009–10. However, the rate of homicide remained at a historic low of 1.2 deaths per 100,000 persons.

    [emphasis mine]

    We see that the homicide rate is at a historic low and what you are pointing out is that the proportion of stabbing deaths has gone up while saying nothing about the total number of stabbing deaths (which may have gone up, but, if so, was apparently more than offset by the reduction in shooting deaths). In order to lie with statistics this way, one must either not be very smart or not be very honest—which are you?

    Saynomorejoe: http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/mr/21-40/mr21.html

    “While gun related homicide has dropped to an historic low of 13%, the proportion of people dying through stab wounds has increased from 30% to 41% over the last 10 years

  114. avatar
    MattR May 2, 2013 at 6:25 pm #

    Slartibartfast: We see that the homicide rate is at a historic low and what you are pointing out is that the proportion of stabbing deaths has gone up while saying nothing about the total number of stabbing deaths (which may have gone up, but, if so, was apparently more than offset by the reduction in shooting deaths).

    That is the funny thing about proportions. If you keep the number of stabbings the same while decreasing the total number of murders, the proportion of stabbings will increase (but you are still just as likely to be stabbed as before). Joe seems to have missed that math lesson.

  115. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 2, 2013 at 6:30 pm #

    It is not allowed. I’ve removed the comments.

    nbc: I hope that ‘outing’ people is not encouraged on this blog. I want to believe that people have the privilege to be posting under whatever assumed name they wish.

    Just my $0.02…

  116. avatar
    US Citizen May 2, 2013 at 6:33 pm #

    Comparing percentages and then declaring “the same thing”, Joe?
    We thought you were smarter than that.
    The NRA likes to play with statistics that way too.
    But come back when you have actual numbers.
    The one that’s larger by a magnitude is the figure for gun deaths.

  117. avatar
    Saynomorejoe May 2, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

    And you make assumption and I rebut them

    From the statistics for the last two years shown

    Homicides have dropped 16% since 1990-2010 and gun deaths when down to 13% which means that gun deaths dropped

    http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current%20series/mr/21-40/mr21/06_appendixes.html

    Deaths from

    2008-2009
    Gunshot 29

    Stab wound 71

    In the years 2009-2010 the gun shot deaths were 25 and the stabbing deaths were 109.

    So as the guns went away the knives came out and the result is the same, except it is easy to protect yourself with a gun against a knife, than with a knife against a knife.

  118. avatar
    MattR May 2, 2013 at 7:03 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: Deaths from
    2008-2009
    Gunshot 29
    Stab wound 71
    In the years 2009-2010 the gun shot deaths were 25 and the stabbing deaths were 109.

    A couple points. First you are quoting just male deaths for 2008-2009 and you got the gun shot deaths wrong for 2009-2010. The numbers for all person is 36 shooting and 99 stabbings in 2008-2009 vs 35 and 109 in 2009-2010. And that is only two years of data. There is not enough to draw any conclusions. And what would really matter were the numbers at the time the gun ban went into place compared with now.

    But more importantly, who cares about gun deaths versus stabbings. What about beatings or strangulations or other/unknown? The very first chart at your link shows the total incidents of homicides has dropped from 302 in 1995-1996 to 257 in 2009-2010. Isn’t that what would really matter?

    I should also note that if you total up the values in Table B8 (Primary Cause of death), that number is greter than the number of homicides listed on Table A1 (Total homicides). I would guess that is because some deaths are listed with multiple primary causes.

  119. avatar
    Greenfinches May 2, 2013 at 7:04 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: the crazy started shooting children, the nation banned weapons, and now the police are allowed to be armed, and the citizens are jailed for defending themselve with any kind of weapon.

    Wrong about this, aren’t you – are you correct about anything?

    The shooting of children, you must mean at Dunblane, was in the 1990s and THEN we banned handguns. No shootings since, as we learned our lesson and don’t need a second Sandy Hook. Not sure why the US seems to want a second such horror.

    The police are still rarely armed and that is the way we like it – and so do they.

    And jail for defending yourself? Cobblers, jail only if you go too far – reasonable actions to defend yourself are fine. Shooting a Japanese guy who knocks on your front door and no more? What an overreaction, to shoot someone who isn’t in any way a threat.

    Joe, in your own interest, saynomore.

  120. avatar
    Rickey May 2, 2013 at 7:08 pm #

    Saynomorejoe:

    “While gun related homicide has dropped to an historic low of 13%, the proportion of people dying through stab wounds has increased from 30% to 41% over the last 10 years ”

    So when people don’t have guns they use knives and the same thing happens!

    Cherry-picking your statistics and taking them out of context does nothing to help your credibility.

    The fact is that Australia now has one of the lowest murder rates in the world, 1.23 per 100,000 population. That is 75% lower than the murder rate in the U.S.

    And the lower murder rate does not even take into consideration the reduction in gun-related suicides and gun-related accidental deaths.

    In fact, there is direct correlation between low rates of private gun ownership and low murder rates. In Canada, for example, the rate of private gun ownership is 23.8 per 100 people. In the U.S., the rate of private gun ownership is 101 per 100 people. In Canada the murder rate is 1.67 per 100,000, while in the U.S. it is 5.22 per 100,000. In the United Kingdom the rate of private gun ownership is 6.7 per 100 people and the murder rate is 1.57 per 100,000.

    The numbers don’t lie. Fewer guns = fewer murders.

  121. avatar
    nbc May 2, 2013 at 7:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It is not allowed. I’ve removed the comments.

    Thanks Doc. I tried to edit my own posting when I realized I had included the name myself but the site was going up and down and I could not get to it in time.

  122. avatar
    bgansel9 May 2, 2013 at 7:26 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: Then, Donna, you have not seen enough people killed to be afraid.. It is easy to talk bravery, but the ability to walk down a black alley in a bad neighborhood is a rare thing.

    Freudian Slip?

  123. avatar
    JPotter May 2, 2013 at 7:34 pm #

    nbc: I hope that ‘outing’ people is not encouraged on this blog. I want to believe that people have the privilege to be posting under whatever assumed name they wish.

    In this case, the poster in question freely acknowledges his name, or at least always has before, and he usually posts under his own name. He hasn’t been here in a while, there are new people here, they may as well know he’ll prattle on endlessly, and just for the sake of prattling. He’s assumed a pseudonym hoping to not be recognized instantly as a troll.

    Times are slow on the birther front, but still no need for wasting time.

  124. avatar
    Majority Will May 2, 2013 at 7:37 pm #

    JPotter: In this case, the poster in question freely acknowledges his name, or at least always has before, and he usually posts under his own name. He hasn’t been here in a while, there are new people here, they may as well know he’ll prattle on endlessly, and just for the sake of prattling. He’s assumed a pseudonym hoping to not be recognized instantly as a troll.

    Times are slow on the birther front, but still no need for wasting time.

    “Sometimes people leave comments designed to offend or outrage the reader, and invoke a firestorm of protest in response. These are the Internet trolls. Replying to them is feeding them and they will come back for more. Refusing to play their game encourages them to go away.”

    – from Obamaconspiracy.org

    Just a thought.

  125. avatar
    donna May 2, 2013 at 7:43 pm #

    bgansel9: Saynomorejoe: Then, Donna, you have not seen enough people killed to be afraid.. It is easy to talk bravery, but the ability to walk down a black alley in a bad neighborhood is a rare thing.

    Freudian Slip?

    i missed that one but i do know people who have been murdered and i was once mugged – guns wouldn’t have helped in any of the cases – gun or not, i don’t frequent back or black alleys

    but, in the case of my mugging, had i had a gun, the muggers would have had it seconds before i knew what was happening

  126. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 2, 2013 at 8:09 pm #

    I don’t want to get in the business of trying to figure out who’s been identified before somewhere else. We just don’t use real names for Internet commenters here unless it’s well-known and acknowledged by the commenter and I know this without having to research it.

    G: I disagree that this constitutes an “outing” at all, as his multiple online identities and pathetic trolling motives have been “outed” a long time ago and across many forums. This wasn’t any reveal of any actual personal information of significance that invades his privacy at all…just general basics that he himself has put out there.

  127. avatar
    JPotter May 2, 2013 at 8:51 pm #

    bgansel9: Freudian Slip?

    It’s uncommon usage, most often seen in descriptive prose, not necessarily a racial reference. While still contemporary in writing, I think’s it’s long gone from spoken conversation. I recall the term from noir novels and films.

  128. avatar
    Keith May 2, 2013 at 9:16 pm #

    Rickey: Here is my gun story. While in the Navy in 1968 I read an article in Stars and Stripes about a female college student in Arizona.

    I don’t recall your story, but I believe it.

    My favorite Arizona gun story is about the guy that got a shotgun for his birthday or Christmas or something and immediately went out to the wildlife refuge near his home north of Phoenix somewhere and started blasting away at the saguaro cactus (for the uninformed, the saguaro is the giant cactus with the arms, often used as an icon for the American Southwest. Its flower is the Arizona state flower, and is also a protected species.). Eventually the saguaro he was shooting at crashed down on top of him and killed him.

    A clear candidate for finalist in the Darwin Awards, but for the fact it occurred 15 years before the Darwin Awards were thought of.

  129. avatar
    Keith May 2, 2013 at 9:22 pm #

    Rickey: I would like us to be more like Australia, which enacted tough gun control laws in 1996. Since then gun-related homicides are down 59%, gun-related suicides are down 65%, and Australia has not had a single mass shooting in the past 16 years.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/03/us-usa-guns-australia-idUSBRE9320C720130403

    And yet, people who NEED guns can get them without too much trouble at all.

  130. avatar
    Keith May 2, 2013 at 9:33 pm #

    Saynomorejoe: So when people don’t have guns they use knives and the same thing happens!

    Yes, people who want to kill someone will find a way.

    But without guns they don’t kill 26 people in less than 5 minutes. They don’t kill innocent bystanders when they are just trying to get the guy that made moves on their girlfriend at the nightclub. They don’t blow the head off their 5yo kid that they mistook for a burgler at 2am.

  131. avatar
    Rickey May 2, 2013 at 9:58 pm #

    Keith: I don’t recall your story, but I believe it.

    My favorite Arizona gun story is about the guy that got a shotgun for his birthday or Christmas or something and immediately went out to the wildlife refuge near his home north of Phoenix somewhere and started blasting away at the saguaro cactus (for the uninformed, the saguaro is the giant cactus with the arms, often used as an icon for the American Southwest. Its flower is the Arizona state flower, and is also a protected species.). Eventually the saguaro he was shooting at crashed down on top of him and killed him.

    A clear candidate for finalist in the Darwin Awards, but for the fact it occurred 15 years before the Darwin Awards were thought of.

    I lived in Arizona for a few years so I know about the protected status of the magnificent saguaro.

    I found a story about the Arizona co-ed in the New York Times archives. It was February 3, 1968 and her name was Linda Marie Ault. She was 21 when she died. The date with her boyfriend actually was on Friday night and she shot herself on Saturday.

    Both her father and mother took her and the dog out to the desert. The mother was holding the dog when Mr. Ault handed the pistol to Linda.

    A later story says that the Aults were both charged with involuntary manslaughter. I don’t know if they served any time, but they had to live with the guilt for the rest of their lives. A tragedy which would not have happened if they hadn’t had a gun in the house.

  132. avatar
    G May 2, 2013 at 11:17 pm #

    Well said on all points!

    Besides, I’d rather face a crazy person with a knife than a gun any day. Hey, I own a rifle. But if someone breaks into my house and I need to defend myself instead of having a chance of fleeing and getting the authorities to take care of the intruder, then I’m probably going to reach for either one of my swords, tonfa or baseball bat to defend myself and incapacitate or scare them away (again, until the proper authorities can arrive and deal with it). Less chance for me to be accidentally lethal that way and gives me more direct control in defending myself.

    Scientist: No one suggests that even if we got rid of all guns there wouldn’t be homicides.The goal is to reduce, not eliminate them.Also keep in mind that gun suicides are equal or greater in number to gun homicides.And yes, there are many ways to kill oneself, but few are as effective as guns.Take them away and the suicidal will try pills or slitting their wrists and the reality is that most times people survive those (and in mostcases with little permanent damage), but few survive a gun to the head.

    Your argument is the equivalent of saying that drunk driving is not a problem because sober people can have accidents too.

    Remember, on the day of Newtown, a crazy guy went into a pre-school in China with a knife.He injured about 20 kids and teachers.All survived.Imagine how many Newtown parents would still have their kids if Lanza had had a knife instead of guns.

    So, as Scientist aptly pointed out, your points are as usual, obtuse and silly.

    Another key point here is that knives are not capable of spraying massive rounds of wanton lethality in seconds, as are many of the types of guns and ammo being used by these crazy mass murderers.

    NOR do you see that many situations of children accidentally killing themselves or others while playing with knives. Nor do you see that many knife-related suicides. Yes, in much, much smaller numbers, these things still happen, but there simply is no comparison to what takes place with guns. None at all.

    Saynomorejoe: “While gun related homicide has dropped to an historic low of 13%, the proportion of people dying through stab wounds has increased from 30% to 41% over the last 10 years ”

    So when people don’t have guns they use knives and the same thing happens!

  133. avatar
    G May 2, 2013 at 11:25 pm #

    And this from a country that was a former prison colony! Quite an impressive move forward for civilization in that part of the world, I dare say!

    Rickey: The fact is that Australia now has one of the lowest murder rates in the world, 1.23 per 100,000 population. That is 75% lower than the murder rate in the U.S.

    Agreed! Again, the US likes to remain in an ignorant bubble instead of look at other nation’s similar experiments and results. We should be applying lessons learned from where others succeeded in order to stay ahead, not arrogantly stick our heads in the sand and act like regressive, xenophobic fools.

    Rickey: The numbers don’t lie. Fewer guns = fewer murders.

  134. avatar
    G May 2, 2013 at 11:30 pm #

    I understand your position on this – in regards to someone’s real name, at least.

    However, I sure hope that there isn’t a problem in simply identifying handles and socks (without revealing a person’s actual real name), or in pointing out as a warning to fellow readers that the handle in question is someone who has openly advocated antagonistic trolling for the sake of antagonistic trolling alone.

    I consider both of those actions to be a welcome reminder and helpful public service….

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t want to get in the business of trying to figure out who’s been identified before somewhere else. We just don’t use real names for Internet commenters here unless it’s well-known and acknowledged by the commenter and I know this without having to research it.

  135. avatar
    Lani May 3, 2013 at 1:43 am #

    G:
    And this from a country that was a former prison colony!Quite an impressive move forward for civilization in that part of the world, I dare say!

    The US was a prison colony for a lot longer than Australia.

    In 1615, English courts began to send convicts to the colonies as a way of alleviating England’s large criminal population. This practice was unpopular in the colonies and by 1697 colonial ports refused to accept convict ships. In response, Parliament passed the Transportation Act of 1718 to create a more systematic way to export convicts. Instead of relying on merchants to make arrangements on their own to ship felons to the colonies, the British government subsidized the shipment of convicts through a network of merchants, giving a contract for the service to one individual at a time. Between 1700 and 1775, approximately 52,200 convicts sailed for the colonies, more than 20,000 of them to Virginia. … Convict laborers could be purchased for a lower price than indentured white or enslaved African laborers, and because they already existed outside society’s rules, they could be more easily exploited.

    http://encyclopediavirginia.org/Convict_Labor_During_the_Colonial_Period#start_entry

    Due the the Revolution, no more convicts could be sent to the “colonies”. In 1786, Parliament passed an act to begin transport to Australia. It ended in the 1860’s – a far shorter period of convict transport than the American colonies experienced.

    If I ever return to a university for another degree, I think my research project will be about the very similar beginnings of the Northern European experience in Australia, the US and Canada and their current world standing. Canada and Australia have far lower rates of violent crime and a much higher quality of life than the US. The US has a huge military and lots of weapons.

    I have wondered why and whether that is related to the violent beginning of what is now the US. The two other countries separated from the UK without years of war. We glorify our revolution for independence, yet other countries achieved independence without years of violent battles.

    But anyway, yeah, convicts were used to populate the US, too.

  136. avatar
    misha marinsky May 3, 2013 at 1:44 am #

    Rickey: I found a story about the Arizona co-ed in the New York Times archives.

    Here’s a clipping from the Prescott Evening Courier:

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=897&dat=19680208&id=0LtaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WlADAAAAIBAJ&pg=6774,2345966

  137. avatar
    Keith May 3, 2013 at 1:47 am #

    G: And this from a country that was a former prison colony! Quite an impressive move forward for civilization in that part of the world, I dare say!

    I agree, however, all is not sweetness and light.

    I believe Western Australia will still throw a 15yo kid into adult prison for 6 months for accepting a bottle of water from a friend that stole it under their 3 strike rule.

  138. avatar
    Keith May 3, 2013 at 1:57 am #

    misha marinsky: Here’s a clipping from the Prescott Evening Courier:

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=897&dat=19680208&id=0LtaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WlADAAAAIBAJ&pg=6774,2345966

    Quite nostalgic that.

    Also on the same day: George Wallace announced his 3rd party Presidential bid and Mayor Lindsay asked Governor Rockefeller to intervene in the New Your City Garbage Strike.

  139. avatar
    Lani May 3, 2013 at 1:58 am #

    Keith: I agree, however, all is not sweetness and light.

    I believe Western Australia will still throw a 15yo kid into adult prison for 6 months for accepting a bottle of water from a friend that stole it under their 3 strike rule.

    And racism against the original inhabitants and excellent custodians of the land was and still is at times quite horrific.

  140. avatar
    misha marinsky May 3, 2013 at 3:24 am #

    Rickey: A later story says that the Aults were both charged with involuntary manslaughter. I don’t know if they served any time

    From what I read, they were found ‘not guilty.’

    Gotta luv that 2nd Amendment.

  141. avatar
    Keith May 3, 2013 at 7:50 am #

    Lani: And racism against the original inhabitants and excellent custodians of the land was and still is at times quite horrific.

    Yes and the Western Oz treatment of child detainees was in the new tonight. They’ve closed on Juvie center, and the other was damaged in a riot. They are refusing to fix the center they’ve got, so they are housing ALL the kids in an adult facility. THe WA Supreme Court found this legal today.

    No one is claiming perfection in Oz, but our gun laws are working well.

  142. avatar
    Keith May 3, 2013 at 7:53 am #

    Keith: They are refusing to fix the center they’ve got, so they are housing ALL the kids in an adult facility.

    By the way, I should point out that for all intents and purposes, it is only the Aboriginal kids that being treated this way.

    It goes without saying that white kids don’t get jail time for accepting a drink of water from a friend.

  143. avatar
    Rickey May 3, 2013 at 4:22 pm #

    misha marinsky: Here’s a clipping from the Prescott Evening Courier:

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=897&dat=19680208&id=0LtaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WlADAAAAIBAJ&pg=6774,2345966

    Thanks. Those parents were sicker than I thought.

  144. avatar
    Rickey May 3, 2013 at 4:27 pm #

    Keith:

    Quite nostalgic that.

    Also on the same day: George Wallace announced his 3rd party Presidential bid and Mayor Lindsay asked Governor Rockefeller to intervene in the New Your City Garbage Strike.

    And did you notice that the newspaper also published a list of hospital admissions and discharges? Times have changed!