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Is Mike Zullo running a scam on the birthers?

I have been watching Mike Zullo and the CCP trying to get the goods on President Obama for almost 2 years now, and what struck me is the total dishonesty with which this so-called investigation was being run and presented. If I could describe it in one way, it is that Mr. Zullo is running a scam on the birthers. So, I went out to the internet and looked for ways that a con game can be recognized and avoided.

“Fraud — credit card fraud, telemarketing scares, Internet scares, identity theft and hundreds of other items that are geared to separate you from your money — is a multi-billion dollar business, both in the U.S. and worldwide. From a simple three-card Monte game on a street corner to sophisticated banking and Wall Street swindles, cons, frauds and scams are destined to strike one in ten Americans this year.”

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0028644158/

A successful scam has 3 elements

1) A trustworthy con man – “con” is short for confidence. The most important element of any con is that the victims trust is gained by the con man. A con man can be a single person, or a group of people working in concert together to separate the victim from their money.

2) A gullible victim – they have to believe that the con man can deliver what they want, be it love, financial gain, or to protect them from real or imagined dangers.

3) Using the victim’s wants/needs/greed against them – the con must convince the victim that they have the answer to the victim’s needs, and they can get it.

The Con Artist

http://www.lovefraud.com/beware-the-sociopath/how-to-spot-a-con/

Credentials—exaggerated and fabricated

Con artists may “prove” themselves by namedropping or volunteering detailed resumes or credentials. If you’re at all suspicious, check their references.”

As we have seen and heard many times, Mr. Zullo has been called commander and lieutenant, and his investigation has been described as an “Official Police Investigation”. As we well know, Mr. Zullo is nothing more than a private citizen running a personal inquiry on the President, his accomplices to the con are there to help build him and his investigation up so they look more official than they really are.

Building your trust

Con artists will sometimes honor their commitments in the beginning so that you begin to trust them. They’ll pay back initial loans, or appear to be unselfishly helping other people. Their objective is to get you to drop your guard.”

Mr. Zullo claims that it was a true investigation, and yet he never interviewed witnesses who might clear the President and the State of Hawaii of any wrongdoing. But, more important to him, is that he made claims that was not backed up by the evidence, but WAS backed up by what his victims wanted to hear. Building their trust that he would be the one to get to the bottom of this.

The story doesn’t quite add up

The con artist’s story may have small inconsistencies or unexplained loose ends. If you ask questions, the con will glibly provide an explanation—which may also not add up. Or, he or she will sidestep the issue by accusing you of paranoia or mistrust” As we have seen time and time again from Mr. Zullo, avoidance is the key. When caught in a fib, blame someone else.

I need an answer now.

A crisis needs to be averted, an opportunity will disappear—whatever the reason, a con artist will want an answer right away. If you have time to think, research or ask advice, you may realize that con artist’s plan is a ploy. The con will want your money before you figure it out.” Mr. Zullo’s claim of vague VIP’s and hidden evidence is all part of the scam. And his willing victims, who take what he says as gospel, eat it right up. A good scam has to have gullible victims and Mr. Zullo’s victims believe he is telling the truth because they want to believe he is telling the truth. Send money and all your prayers will be answered.

http://www.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Con-Artist

Look out for red flags. If you’ve already entered into a transaction with someone, keep an eye out for the following warning signs:

Secrecy – Are you asked not to tell anyone?

Jackpot just around the corner – The con artist is stringing you along while he or she collects more money from you (e.g. “Any day now…). Your own denial might allow this procrastination to go on far longer than common sense would allow, because you don’t want to face the possibility that you’ve been duped.

Procrastination turns into intimidation – When your patience runs thin and you begin to question the con artist’s credibility, you may end up getting treated like a traitor, or even a fool.”

Mr. Zullo’s red flags

A) Secrecy – Hidden reports only he and/or his cohorts have seen. Unknown VIPs. Vague evidence that no one but him and his partners are privy to until “the right time”.

B) Jackpot just around the corner – this is self-explanatory for Mr. Zullo’s situation, we’ve heard “Any day now” for so long from him, we just add that and “Send money” to every interview, presentation, and book selling he has.

C) Procrastination turns into intimidation – As we’ve seen, anyone who questions Mr. Zullo’s investigation is now called “obot” or “traitor” and shouted down by the “True Believers” (I call them the “Gullible”). These are what we call “unwitting accomplices”, not actually a part of the con, but victims who believe so much in the con that they act as surrogates in covering for the con man and assisting in the scam to attract other victims.

The birthers are a Con Man’s wet dream

When you receive the email telling you about this large sum of money just waiting for you to collect or inherit, commonly called a Nigerian scam, most people just delete them or send them to the trash. You are, unwittingly, helping out the scammers. A con man needs victims, and the first thing they need to do is identify gullible witnesses. So, by you tossing the email, you’ve saved them time and trouble (keep getting rid of them!). The birthers come as a ready-made con just waiting for the con artist to remove them from their money. According to the FBI, most scam victims are older.

-People who grew up in the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s were generally raised to be polite and trusting.

-Older Americans are less likely to report a fraud because they don’t know who to report it to, are too ashamed at having been scammed, or don’t know they have been scammed.

-When an elderly victim does report the crime, they often make poor witnesses. Con artists know the effects of age on memory, and they are counting on elderly victims not being able to supply enough detailed information to investigators.

Most of the birthers are older, white, and already have a pre-conceived notion that the President isn’t eligible. They own their own home and have disposable income available to donate to the so-called investigation. They’ve already given to others and are only interested in a certain outcome. So, a con man already has their victims identified and the type of scam to run on them. More than half the work of Mr. Zullo was already done before the scam even started.

Why would Mr. Zullo run the scam?

A) Money – Before the very first Press conference, Mr. Zullo announced they were releasing a book (during an investigation? RED FLAGS!!!). Mr. Zullo claimed he made some money (about $1600 if I remember correctly) and donated it to his church. However, nobody knows if he really donated it or just gave his usual donation to his church and claimed it was from the profits. Now, it looks like there will be another book coming out…and you can bet that Mr. Zullo has figured out how to avoid the pitfalls of the first book profits.

The second source of money for Mr. Zullo is donations. As I’ve shown above, he already had a ready group of victims waiting for someone to come along and answer their prayers. And, he has no accountability as to what he’s using the funds for and a group of victims who don’t question his use of their donations. Again, a con man’s wet dream.

B) Tit-for-Tat? – Sheriff Arpaio was running for re-election in 2012, and also facing an investigation from the feds and had a discrimination case locally. He was in trouble and needed something to take the voters mind off his missteps. Why not throw out an investigation on the President? Mike Zullo owns some land north of Phoenix, in 2006 he wanted to improve the land and make it a horse ranch. His request was denied. If you look at his tax bill for a trailer on the property, according tax records, his tax bill has not been paid since 2007 after his zoning request was denied. If Mr. Zullo were to help Sheriff Arpaio out with his little problem, then maybe that kindly old Sheriff of Maricopa County would help Mr. Zullo out with his. (Note: Property records only contain names, I have not been able to locate another Mike Zullo in the Phoenix area, so chances are this is the correct Mike Zullo)

C) Protection – I’ll bet every con man would love to have the local Sheriff watching his back and providing cover. A scam with no worries about an investigation by local law enforcement…a very sweet deal indeed.

I believe for all the reasons stated above and actions and words of Sheriff Arpaio and Mr. Zullo are indicators of a scam being perpetrated on the birthers.

If you’ve given to Mr. Zullo’s investigation and believe you may be a victim of fraud, I recommend you contact the Arizona Attorney General and report the crime.

https://www.azag.gov/

163 Responses to Is Mike Zullo running a scam on the birthers?

  1. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 30, 2013 at 8:08 pm #

    This is a guest essay.

  2. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 30, 2013 at 8:43 pm #

    Great piece!

    The real unknown in all this is how much money is running through the CCP and where is it going?

    Since the CCP doesn’t file IRS 990’s like many of the other posses that information should be available through the county. I would suggest your writer contact that sheriff’s office and the county finance department to ask for it.

    Bottom line: Yes, it’s a scam. The only question is whether it’s a big time scam or just a nickel and dime con.

  3. avatar
    gorefan July 30, 2013 at 8:51 pm #

    Zullo’s new thing is to warn followers not to talk to the “paid opposition” because they will only try to sow the seeds of doubt.

  4. avatar
    Curious George July 30, 2013 at 9:04 pm #

    This was a very informative article. It should be posted on every birther website. Unfortunately, they have so much time, money, energy and belief invested few would take this article seriously. As it is with all good used car salesmen and snake oil salesmen it’s easier to believe the unbelievable. Will a second book come on the donations of the fleeced? Great piece.

  5. avatar
    Jim July 30, 2013 at 9:18 pm #

    gorefan:
    Zullo’s new thing is to warn followers not to talk to the “paid opposition” because they will only try to sow the seeds of doubt.

    Another sign of a scam, isolate your victims…try to make sure they only hear what you want them to hear.

  6. avatar
    Curious George July 30, 2013 at 9:30 pm #

    Jim: Another sign of a scam, isolate your victims…try to make sure they only hear what you want them to hear.

    Who are the paid opposition?

  7. avatar
    gorefan July 30, 2013 at 9:38 pm #

    Curious George: Who are the paid opposition?

    Anyone with half a brain.

  8. avatar
    Curious George July 30, 2013 at 9:54 pm #

    gorefan: Anyone with half a brain.

    Is the check in the mail?

  9. avatar
    RanTalbott July 30, 2013 at 10:00 pm #

    Curious George: Who are the paid opposition?

    Well, me, for one, apparently: I’ve got a loon on youtube who has concocted a fantasy that I’m a lawyer, working with a team of other lawyers (a few posters who are also enjoying yanking his chain) in a law office hired by Obama to keep Congress and the courts from examining his LFBC. He refuses to explain how posting derisive comments on youtube might accomplish this.
    What’s arguably even more hilarious is that he’s accusing a fellow birfoon, who likes to mix in other loony conspiracy theories in the discussion, of also being one of the “paid opposition”, trying to scroll off his “reallyreally important postings”..
    Things have taken a distinct turn toward the weird: yesterday, the second birfoon started claiming she _is_ being paid (though she won’t say why, or by whom).
    It’s almost like being in a Marx Brothers movie.

    Ran

  10. avatar
    alg July 30, 2013 at 10:05 pm #

    I have your official Nigerian birth certificate. You can use it to qualify for millions in Nigerian citizenship grants. If you send me $200 I will give it to you…no questions asked.

  11. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 30, 2013 at 10:12 pm #

    alg:
    I have your official Nigerian birth certificate.You can use it to qualify for millions in Nigerian citizenship grants.If you send me $200 I will give it to you…no questions asked.

    Send me your bank information and I’ll transfer the money to you right away….I promise.

  12. avatar
    RanTalbott July 30, 2013 at 10:16 pm #

    Well, obviously great minds Do think alike. Here’s something I posted on rcradioblog yesterday:

    (start quote)
    On a related note: Did the CCP violate Arizona state law?

    AZ statute 13-2310 says “A. Any person who, pursuant to a scheme or artifice to defraud, knowingly obtains any benefit by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, promises or material omissions is guilty of a class 2 felony.”

    While the “control document” BS might be defended on the grounds that the clowns were too ignorant to know that their claims were bogus, the “coding error” claims can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to contain multiple knowing misrepresentations. There may also be other such deliberate false claims: there are so many, I can’t keep track.

    The CCP non-profit has received donations based, in part, upon its claim that it’s “proven” fraud and forgery. It’s also been _alleged_ on the never-ever-wrong interwebs that CCP personnel have gotten perks from the MCSO (usually claimed to be official cars and/or use of MCSO credit cards for expenses), but I’m not aware of anyone actually proving that. Those seem to me to be “benefits”.

    ARS 13-2311 also bans such misrepresentations by public agencies, without any requirement for material benefit. It’s hard for a lay person to tell, though, whether the CCP could legally be called a “public agency”, given the way that they blur their official relationship with the MCSO.

    I know there are some lawyers in the house. Have I misunderstood the above laws?

    (end quote)

    Given that NBC et al have proven that optimization can, and does, produce the “cut and paste” artifacts, can the CCP’s _continued_ assertion that it can’t, instead of retracting, be considered a “fraudulent” representation?

    Ran

  13. avatar
    richCares July 30, 2013 at 10:20 pm #

    Can everyone here chip in and help me out. a birther mailing list with names, addresses and emails will bring in top dollar. Send me any list you may have, scammers will pay $2.50 per listing. Here’s a typical scam email sent to birthers, as they always fall for it:

    We happy to let you know we now restored Visa payments.
    This is important – you only will be able to use your Visa if you follow this link and must enter Visa card number you used with us in the past. We only offer this option to our past clients.You will need to provide your REAL email and PHONE number when completing your contact information to use this option.
    Best Reagrds,
    Helen

  14. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 30, 2013 at 10:37 pm #

    RanTalbott: Did the CCP violate Arizona state law?

    At first I kind of chuckled but then the more I thought about it you might have a point…..especially since Zullo has never disclosed the posse’s finances.

    There are also federal mail and wire fraud laws that could be used.

    The more I think about it the more I like it.

  15. avatar
    Keith July 30, 2013 at 11:27 pm #

    my first reaction, before even reading the essay, is: Is water wet?

  16. avatar
    Reality Check July 30, 2013 at 11:38 pm #

    Jim

    Excellent article. Zullo is the classic con artist.

  17. avatar
    Keith July 30, 2013 at 11:39 pm #

    My final reaction, after reading the essay and the comments is: yup, very wet indeed.

  18. avatar
    Keith July 30, 2013 at 11:41 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Jim

    Excellent article. Zullo is the classic con artist.

    Not sure ‘artist’ is quite the correct noun. ‘man’ maybe.’ trickster’ maybe,

    ‘artist’? hardly.

  19. avatar
    ZixiOfIx July 31, 2013 at 1:39 am #

    This isn’t how investigations are done. Investigations are done quietly, by professionals who do their best to remain neutral and gather all of the available evidence. Real investigators don’t ignore important witnesses (like the reporters who have actually held the birth certificate). Real investigators don’t broadcast their conclusions before they take it to the justice system.

    Is it a scam?
    Is it incompetence?
    Is it a juvenile need to hog the spotlight, no matter how small and dim?
    Which one is it? Can it be more than one?

    This type of “investigation” will never be taken seriously by law enforcement or the legal community anywhere. Nothing will ever come of it.

  20. avatar
    donna July 31, 2013 at 2:01 am #

    ZixiOfIx: “This isn’t how investigations are done. Investigations are done quietly …..”

    and might i add that when real investigators hold press conferences, their comment is always “we don’t comment on ongoing investigations”

  21. avatar
    Lupin July 31, 2013 at 3:38 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    This is a guest essay.

    And an excellent one! Congrats to all involved.

  22. avatar
    Lupin July 31, 2013 at 3:41 am #

    Keith: Not sure ‘artist’ is quite the correct noun. ‘man’ maybe.’ trickster’ maybe,

    ‘artist’? hardly.

    Zullo is the modern-day version of those snake oil salesmen / phony “doctors” who traveled the Old West and sold “elixirs” that often killed people instead of curing them.

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 31, 2013 at 7:30 am #

    I have already made a formal request to the Sheriff’s Office under the Arizona open records law for records relating to the financial oversight or financial management of the CCP.

    CarlOrcas: Since the CCP doesn’t file IRS 990′s like many of the other posses that information should be available through the county. I would suggest your writer contact that sheriff’s office and the county finance department to ask for it.

  24. avatar
    misha marinsky July 31, 2013 at 7:56 am #

    Lupin: Zullo is the modern-day version of those snake oil salesmen / phony“doctors” who traveled the Old West and sold “elixirs” that often killed people instead of curing them.

    Geritol was initially popular because of its high alcohol content.

  25. avatar
    misha marinsky July 31, 2013 at 8:01 am #

    CO₂ofLife’s and Zullo’s target audience:

    Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be

    “Our very way of life is under siege,” said Mortensen, whose understanding of the Constitution derives not from a close reading of the document but from talk-show pundits, books by television personalities, and the limitless expanse of his own colorful imagination. “It’s time for true Americans to stand up and protect the values that make us who we are.”

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-c,2849/

  26. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 31, 2013 at 8:36 am #

    RanTalbott: Well, me, for one, apparently: I’ve got a loon on youtube who has concocted a fantasy that I’m a lawyer, working with a team of other lawyers (a few posters who are also enjoying yanking his chain) in a law office hired by Obama to keep Congress and the courts from examining his LFBC. He refuses to explain how posting derisive comments on youtube might accomplish this.
    What’s arguably even more hilarious is that he’s accusing a fellow birfoon, who likes to mix in other loony conspiracy theories in the discussion, of also being one of the “paid opposition”, trying to scroll off his “reallyreally important postings”..
    Things have taken a distinct turn toward the weird: yesterday, the second birfoon started claiming she _is_ being paid (though she won’t say why, or by whom).
    It’s almost like being in a Marx Brothers movie.

    Ran

    I think ive ran across the same loon when backed into a corner does he run back to some video he claims he created within an hour after Obama showed the long form

  27. avatar
    alg July 31, 2013 at 9:11 am #

    Reality Check:
    Jim

    Excellent article. Zullo is the classic con artist.

    And is anyone surprised by this? The man sells used cars for his day job.

  28. avatar
    scott e July 31, 2013 at 10:41 am #

    seems pretty straight forward to me…

    it’s now to the point, where it should go one way or another.

  29. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 31, 2013 at 10:57 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I have already made a formal request to the Sheriff’s Office under the Arizona open records law for records relating to the financial oversight or financial management of the CCP.

    Excellent! It will be interesting to see what kind of response you get.

  30. avatar
    scott e July 31, 2013 at 12:07 pm #

    this essay is like frank’s speech on birthers.

    and I found this, pretty interesting. I always wonder how other suspected forgeries have been handled. i’m looking for other cases of document forgery. I guess bill ayers won’t help us much. I heard he’s an expert too. better luck next time.

    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=OW19051011.2.271.12&l=mi&e=——-10–1—-2–

  31. avatar
    Steve July 31, 2013 at 12:11 pm #

    misha marinsky:
    CO₂ofLife’s and Zullo’s target audience:

    Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be

    “Our very way of life is under siege,” said Mortensen, whose understanding of the Constitution derives not from a close reading of the document but from talk-show pundits, books by television personalities, and the limitless expanse of his own colorful imagination. “It’s time for true Americans to stand up and protect the values that make us who we are.”

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-c,2849/

    Yep, I doubt many of these people could tell the difference between the Bill of Rights and their cable bill.

  32. avatar
    Curious George July 31, 2013 at 12:37 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Great piece!The real unknown in all this is how much money is running through the CCP and where is it going?Since the CCP doesn’t file IRS 990′s like many of the other posses that information should be available through the county. I would suggest your writer contact that sheriff’s office and the county finance department to ask for it.Bottom line: Yes, it’s a scam. The only question is whether it’s a big time scam or just a nickel and dime con.

    Why wouldn’t the CCP be required to file either a 990 or 990ez as a 501(c)(3)? Or are they just not doing it? All IRS 990 and 990 ez forms are open to public inspection (to be honored the day of the request if made in person, and honored within 30 days if the request is made in writing). Doesn’t a 501(c)(3) non profit that fails to file either form for 3 consecutive years automatically lose their tax exempt status? Shouldn’t the request for financial disclosure be made directly to The Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office Cold Case Posse Incorporated, not the county?

  33. avatar
    Thomas Brown July 31, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

    A former used car salesman is a con artist and liar? C’mon. You’re pullin’ my leg.

    Seriously, nice work.

  34. avatar
    misha marinsky July 31, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

    alg: And is anyone surprised by this?The man sells used cars for his day job.

    Just like Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue.

  35. avatar
    misha marinsky July 31, 2013 at 12:53 pm #

    Thomas Brown: A former used car salesman is a con artist and liar?

    Mike Zullo:

    “Now this Conestoga V8 was driven by a little old lady, only on Sundays. Its blue book is $8 thousand, but I can let you have it for five. We do our own financing. If I can’t get you approved, my name’s not Larry.”

  36. avatar
    Bob July 31, 2013 at 1:06 pm #

    I don’t know if “scam” is the appropriate term. I think the 10 or so remaining Birthers are happy to contribute a little something to Zullo in order to keep their brain-dead smear on life support.

  37. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 31, 2013 at 1:12 pm #

    Birther finances are a a big uncharted area on the map.

    Bob: I don’t know if “scam” is the appropriate term. I think the 10 or so remaining Birthers are happy to contribute a little something to Zullo in order to keep their brain-dead smear on life support.

  38. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 31, 2013 at 1:25 pm #

    Curious George: Why wouldn’t the CCP be required to file either a 990 or 990ez as a 501(c)(3)? Or are they just not doing it?All IRS 990 and 990 ez forms are open to public inspection (to be honored the day of the request if made in person,and honored within 30 days if the request is made in writing).Doesn’t a 501(c)(3) non profit that fails to file either form for 3 consecutive years automatically lose their tax exempt status?Shouldn’t the request for financial disclosure be made directly to The Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office Cold Case Posse Incorporated,not the county?

    Non-profits affiliated with public agencies are exempt from filing 990’s. But….it looks like a number of the posses in Arizona do file them and, as you can see on this ProPublica report (provided by someone here the last time we discussed this), some of them have and spend significant amounts of money:

    http://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=posse&state%5Bid%5D=AZ&ntee%5Bid%5D=&c_code%5Bid%5D=

    I think Doc is on the right track asking the MCSO first. They will either say to check with the posse or, maybe, to check with the county finance department. Either way he will get the runaround on the first pass but eventually we may have a clearer picture of what is going on.

  39. avatar
    Crustacean July 31, 2013 at 1:30 pm #

    Coca~Cola was created by one of those proverbial snake oil salesmen. It, too, was originally very popular because of its alcohol and caffeine content. Well, that and a little cocaine…

    misha marinsky: Geritol was initially popular because of its high alcohol content.

  40. avatar
    scott e July 31, 2013 at 1:48 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Non-profits affiliated with public agencies are exempt from filing 990′s. But….it looks like a number of the posses in Arizona do file them and, as you can see on this ProPublica report (provided by someone here the last time we discussed this), some of them have and spend significant amounts of money:

    http://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=posse&stateid=AZ&nteeid=&c_codeid=

    I think Doc is on the right track asking the MCSO first. They will either say to check with the posse or, maybe, to check with the county finance department. Either way he will get the runaround on the first pass but eventually we may have a clearer picture of what is going on.

    shouldn’t it all be in the town budget/annual report. what are you looking for ? maybe those records are sealed.

  41. avatar
    RanTalbott July 31, 2013 at 1:49 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: I think ive ran across the same loon when backed into a corner does he run back to some video he claims he created within an hour after Obama showed the long form

    Yep, same guy. I’ve started to wonder whether he might be a troll, instead of a loon. He’s shifted from loony versions of real-world events to trollish fabrication of statements and attributing them to his opponents.

  42. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 31, 2013 at 1:55 pm #

    RanTalbott: Yep, same guy. I’ve started to wonder whether he might be a troll, instead of a loon. He’s shifted from loony versions of real-world events to trollish fabrication of statements and attributing them to his opponents.

    Isn’t loony troll redundant?

  43. avatar
    RanTalbott July 31, 2013 at 2:09 pm #

    CarlOrcas: At first I kind of chuckled but then the more I thought about it you might have a point

    I hope I do: that was a serious request. I know more about the law that the average person, but I don’t know enough to get _into_ law school, much less to pretend to be a lawyer.
    I’m pissed off enough about the CCP’s shenanigans to try to file a criminal complaint, but I don’t want to wind up like the birther who made a fool of himself by asking the Maricopa County Attorney to act on the CCP’s “evidence”.

  44. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater July 31, 2013 at 2:17 pm #

    RanTalbott: Yep, same guy. I’ve started to wonder whether he might be a troll, instead of a loon. He’s shifted from loony versions of real-world events to trollish fabrication of statements and attributing them to his opponents.

    Yup I got bored after a month or so of him avoiding direct questions.

  45. avatar
    Jim July 31, 2013 at 2:25 pm #

    RanTalbott: I’m pissed off enough about the CCP’s shenanigans to try to file a criminal complaint, but I don’t want to wind up like the birther who made a fool of himself by asking the Maricopa County Attorney to act on the CCP’s “evidence”.

    If you are an Arizona resident, and you think a crime has been or is being committed with the assistance of local law enforcement, you can report it to the Arizona Attorney General or the Federal Marshals. Even better, if you can get a bunch of old ladies who’ve given to the scam, get them together and file the complaint in front of news crews (they will eat it up) and force the AG to at least look into it.

  46. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 31, 2013 at 2:36 pm #

    RanTalbott: I hope I do: that was a serious request. I know more about the law that the average person, but I don’t know enough to get _into_ law school, much less to pretend to be a lawyer.
    I’m pissed off enough about the CCP’s shenanigans to try to file a criminal complaint, but I don’t want to wind up like the birther who made a fool of himself by asking the Maricopa County Attorney to act on the CCP’s “evidence”.

    Citizen’s can’t file a criminal complaint in the sense I think you’re talking about and the Maricopa County Attorney couldn’t do anything with it because it would be a conflict. Like the other cases involving the MCSO he would have to recuse and refer it to an outside counsel or another county attorney.

    Tom Horne is the state Attorney General and he has his own problems but he does have a section that deals with these sorts of things and that’s where this might end up if it were to go anywhere.

    I suspect the feds have had their fill of the SO and the CCP is pretty small potatoes. Except…….if they were to be concerned that it is violating the law and/or IRS regulations regarding the operation of a non-profit entity. They’d really have to have something solid to go there given the problems they are having with other non-profits.

    Bottom line: The 990 is the place to start.

  47. avatar
    Curious George July 31, 2013 at 3:31 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Non-profits affiliated with public agencies are exempt from filing 990′s. But….it looks like a number of the posses in Arizona do file them and, as you can see on this ProPublica report (provided by someone here the last time we discussed this), some of them have and spend significant amounts of money:

    http://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=posse&stateid=AZ&nteeid=&c_codeid=

    I think Doc is on the right track asking the MCSO first. They will either say to check with the posse or, maybe, to check with the county finance department. Either way he will get the runaround on the first pass but eventually we may have a clearer picture of what is going on.

    The link that you provided shows that there are some MCSO Posses that are accountable to the public for their donations and then again there are others that fail to give any information. If the CCP doesn’t file 990’s how can they be held accountable? Doesn’t make sense. It looks like a program open to abuse.

  48. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 31, 2013 at 3:49 pm #

    Given that the Cold Case Posse claims that it receives no funding from the County, one would not really expect to see anything in the budget. By law, such records if they exist are public.

    scott e: shouldn’t it all be in the town budget/annual report. what are you looking for ? maybe those records are sealed.

  49. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 31, 2013 at 3:53 pm #

    I think that the basic principle, and the reason that the IRS gives 990 filing exemption to some tax-exempt organizations, is that those organizations receive most of their funding from and are accountable to the government organizations with which they are affiliated.

    I hope it will not be necessary to file a lawsuit against the MSCO to get the records that are by law public.

    Curious George: If the CCP doesn’t file 990′s how can they be held accountable? Doesn’t make sense. It looks like a program open to abuse.

  50. avatar
    Yoda July 31, 2013 at 3:59 pm #

    At the risk of sounding obnoxious, duhhh.

  51. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 31, 2013 at 4:02 pm #

    At least according to their web site, the only activity the Cold Case Posse has ever been involved in is trying to prove Barack Obama isn’t President. That is a transparently political activity and not in any way the sort of thing that entitles them to tax-exempt status.

    The second major issue is that Mike Zullo took a work product of the non-profit and then sold it as a book and kept the profits personally. Non-profits are not supposed to be vehicles for putting money in its officers pockets.

    Under a reasonable application of the law the CCP should have its tax-exempt status revoked and should have to pay excise tax on misspent money.

    The reporting failure seems to me (spoken without any claim to expertise) less serious, something that could be remedied by them filing the required forms.

    My interest is journalistic, getting information that is required by law to be provided to the public. I haven’t sent the CCP any money.

    CarlOrcas: I suspect the feds have had their fill of the SO and the CCP is pretty small potatoes. Except…….if they were to be concerned that it is violating the law and/or IRS regulations regarding the operation of a non-profit entity. They’d really have to have something solid to go there given the problems they are having with other non-profits.

  52. avatar
    Jim July 31, 2013 at 4:07 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    My interest is journalistic, getting information that is required by law to be provided to the public.

    “Follow the Money” – All the President’s Men

  53. avatar
    RanTalbott July 31, 2013 at 4:29 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: At least according to their web site, the only activity the Cold Case Posse has ever been involved in is trying to prove Barack Obama isn’t President.

    I’m certain I’ve heard either Zullo or Arpaio say that the CCP has been used to investigate actual cold cases, specifically old murder(s).
    But those would be real investigations, so they wouldn’t go on the website unless they wanted to brag about success.

  54. avatar
    RanTalbott July 31, 2013 at 4:41 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Citizen’s can’t file a criminal complaint in the sense I think you’re talking about

    I probably used the wrong term: I’m thinking of a citizen going to law enforcement and formally writing down facts to say that a crime has occurred. Maybe that’s called a “report” or a “statement”?
    The Feds are in a difficult position: prosecution could be seen as “retribution”, and even some people who see it as legally legit will think it’s “petty”.
    And Horne won’t do a thing unless there’s _significant_ public pressure: he needs Maricopa County voters to get elected Governor.
    The best next step might be to get the media interested in it as a nice juicy scandal.

  55. avatar
    Curious George July 31, 2013 at 4:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I think that the basic principle, and the reason that the IRS gives 990 filing exemption to some tax-exempt organizations, is that those organizations receive most of their funding from and are accountable to the government organizations with which they are affiliated.

    I hope it will not be necessary to file a lawsuit against the MSCO to get the records that are by law public.

    I think they have a problem. Most if not all funding comes from their solicitation of public funds. Do they have a letter of determination that states they are not required to file a 990? One area that would be reviewed is the amount of solicitation for donations and the lack of tax payer funds from the county. If they are operating without a letter of determination and not filing 990s because of their supposed affiliation, the following from IRS Rev Proc 95-48 would need review:

    (ii) It possesses two or more of the affiliation factors listed in section 4.03; and
    (iii) Its filing of Form 990 is not otherwise necessary to the efficient administration of the internal revenue laws.
    .03 The following affiliation factors will be considered under paragraph (b)(ii) of section 4.02:
    (a) The organization was created by one or more governmental units, organizations that are affiliates of governmental units, or public officials acting in their official capacity.
    (b) The organization’s support is received principally from taxes, tolls, fines, government appropriations, or fees collected pursuant to statutory authority. Amounts received as government grants or other contract payments are not qualifying support under this paragraph.
    (c) The organization is financially accountable to one or more governmental units. This factor is present if the organization is (i) required to report to governmental unit(s), at least annually, information comparable to that required by Form 990; and (ii) is subject to financial audit by the governmental unit(s) to which it reports. A report submitted voluntarily by the organization does not satisfy clause (i). Also, reports and audits pursuant to government grants or other contracts do not alone satisfy this paragraph (c).

  56. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 31, 2013 at 5:39 pm #

    scott e: shouldn’t it all be in the town budget/annual report. what are you looking for ? maybe those records are sealed.

    It’s a county……biggest in Arizona; almost 4-million people. As Doc notes Zullo and Arpaio have repeatedly said the posse doesn’t receive any taxpayer money. As far as the county budget is concerned it’s public if less than clear.

    Here is the proposed 2013 budget:

    http://www.maricopa.gov/Budget/pdf/ABS2013CountyRecomm.PDF

    And the adopted budget:

    http://www.maricopa.gov/Budget/pdf/MCSDBS.PDF

    They have different levels of detail but both contain information on the Sheriff’s Office with no information about the Cold Case Posse.

    Do you think the Cold Case Posse should make its finances public?

  57. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 31, 2013 at 5:41 pm #

    Curious George: If the CCP doesn’t file 990′s how can they be held accountable? Doesn’t make sense. It looks like a program open to abuse.

    You, sir, are absolutely correct!

  58. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 31, 2013 at 5:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Under a reasonable application of the law the CCP should have its tax-exempt status revoked and should have to pay excise tax on misspent money.

    The reporting failure seems to me (spoken without any claim to expertise) less serious, something that could be remedied by them filing the required forms.

    You’re right on all counts, Doc.

    Right now Zullo is kind of caught between a rock and a hard place: If he files the missing reports and they show he’s enriched himself (or others) then he’s exposed as a charlatan. If he hasn’t received any money then it shows the public really doesn’t care about what he’s doing.

    I included links to Maricopa County’s proposed and final 2013 budget in my response to scott. Take a look and see if you spot anything.

  59. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 31, 2013 at 5:50 pm #

    RanTalbott: The best next step might be to get the media interested in it as a nice juicy scandal.

    The Phoenix New Times has done the best job, over the years, of reporting on the sheriff’s abuses. I’m hoping now that has settled down they will look at some of this peripheral stuff.

  60. avatar
    Curious George July 31, 2013 at 9:26 pm #

    CarlOrcas: You’re right on all counts, Doc.

    Right now Zullo is kind of caught between a rock and a hard place: If he files the missing reports and they show he’s enriched himself (or others) then he’s exposed as a charlatan. If he hasn’t received any money then it shows the public really doesn’t care about what he’s doing.

    I included links to Maricopa County’s proposed and final 2013 budget in my response to scott. Take a look and see if you spot anything.

    Yes very much between a rock and hard place. There will not be any budget set for the Cold Case Posse in the 2013 Maricopa County general budget because it is an all volunteer unit working off public donations not tax revenues. Again, other MCSO non profit posse units file 990s why not the CCP? I don’t believe that the CCP gets a pass on filing the 990s because of their continuous solicitation of public donations among other things. There is an old saying….follow the money trail. Find the money and you’ll find your answers.

  61. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 31, 2013 at 9:48 pm #

    Curious George: Yes very much between a rock and hard place. There will not be any budget set for the Cold Case Posse in the 2013 Maricopa County general budget because it is an all volunteer unit working off public donations not tax revenues. Again, other MCSO non profit posse units file 990s why not the CCP? I don’t believe that the CCP gets a pass on filing the 990s because of their continuous solicitation of public donations among other things. There is an old saying….follow the money trail. Find the money and you’ll find your answers.

    Remember…..the posse’s are independent non-profit entities that are, to varying degrees, affiliated with the sheriff’s office but they aren’t run by it and their budgets aren’t included in the county’s accounting of income and expenses.

    Frankly I was surprised at the amount of money the Sun Lakes and Sun City posse’s have in the bank. They’re both retirement communities so I’m guessing they have been left money by deceased residents. Just a guess.

    Where it starts to get murky is when you try to figure out just how much support those and the search posses get from the SO in the way of things like communications and other equipment.

  62. avatar
    Curious George July 31, 2013 at 10:05 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: At least according to their web site, the only activity the Cold Case Posse has ever been involved in is trying to prove Barack Obama isn’t President. That is a transparently political activity and not in any way the sort of thing that entitles them to tax-exempt status.The second major issue is that Mike Zullo took a work product of the non-profit and then sold it as a book and kept the profits personally. Non-profits are not supposed to be vehicles for putting money in its officers pockets.Under a reasonable application of the law the CCP should have its tax-exempt status revoked and should have to pay excise tax on misspent money.The reporting failure seems to me (spoken without any claim to expertise) less serious, something that could be remedied by them filing the required forms.My interest is journalistic, getting information that is required by law to be provided to the public. I haven’t sent the CCP any money.

    To add to what you have written….

    From The Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office Cold Case Posse Inc. Aritcles of Incorporation, December 29, 2006, File number 13342890, Article IV….

    “No substantial part of the activities of the corporation shall be the carrying on of propaganda, or otherwise attempting to influence legislation, and the corporation shall not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distribution of statements) any political campaign on behalf of any candidate for public office.”

    Comment: The IRS goes onestep further and adds to campaign against any candidate. “To influence legislation” is also defined more completely by the IRS.”

    Comment: Propaganda can be defined as an effort directed systematically toward the gaining of public support for an opinion or a cause of action.

    Article IV continues….”Not withstanding any other provision of these Articles, the corporation shall not carry on any other activities not permitted to be carried on: (a) by a corporation exempt from Federal Income Tax under Section 501 (c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 (or corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law) or: (b) by a corporation, contributions to which are deductible under Section 170 (c)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 (or the corresponding provisions of any future United States Internal Revenue Laws.)”

    Again, a full accounting of public donations and expenditures is a must.

  63. avatar
    Curious George July 31, 2013 at 10:12 pm #

    CarlOrcas

    “Frankly I was surprised at the amount of money the Sun Lakes and Sun City posse’s have in the bank.”

    As was I. It will be interesting to see the total donations and expenditures with the CCP.

  64. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 31, 2013 at 10:43 pm #

    Curious George:
    CarlOrcas

    “Frankly I was surprised at the amount of money the Sun Lakes and Sun City posse’s have in the bank.”

    As was I.It will be interesting to see the total donations and expenditures with the CCP.

    Indeed it will.

  65. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 31, 2013 at 10:45 pm #

    Curious George: Again, a full accounting of public donations and expenditures is a must.

    I’ve been familiar with the posses for more than 50 years and while some of them – like the executive posse – have been political in the sense that they are supporters of the sheriff I have never seen anything like what Zullo has done.

    I can’t imagine that a close examination of what they’re doing wouldn’t result in a revocation of their non-profit status.

  66. avatar
    Jim July 31, 2013 at 11:08 pm #

    Wonder if we could start our own tax deductible entity to assist federal and state law enforcement to identify possible fraud crimes against the elderly? We could call ourselves the OCT Posse. Our motto could be “To Identify and Reject”.

  67. avatar
    Goal Poster July 31, 2013 at 11:22 pm #

    Dr. Con’s dementia is swelling.

  68. avatar
    Curious George July 31, 2013 at 11:47 pm #

    CarlOrcas: “I can’t imagine that a close examination of what they’re doing wouldn’t result in a revocation of their non-profit status.”

    And what aren’t we seeing? It’s all shocking. But what shocks me the most is the faith birthers have for this guy.

  69. avatar
    misha marinsky July 31, 2013 at 11:47 pm #

    Goal Poster: Dr. Con’s dementia is swelling.

    Conservatives lack intellectual curiosity, hence your inarticulate, fatuous, semi-literate comment.

  70. avatar
    Majority Will July 31, 2013 at 11:54 pm #

    Johnny: [jumps to an overweight controller] “And Leon is getting laaaaarrrrrger.”

  71. avatar
    Publius August 1, 2013 at 1:42 am #

    Zullo’s mom has some property up north of Phoenix. I guess it used to belong to his dad, who was also named Michael, and she probably inherited it when the elder Michael Zullo passed away 3 years ago.

    She also has a nice house up there too. But that’s in more of a townish neighborhood.

  72. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 1, 2013 at 1:43 am #

    Majority Will:
    Johnny: [jumps to an overweight controller] “And Leon is getting laaaaarrrrrger.”

    You get a banana sticker for that!

  73. avatar
    The Magic M August 1, 2013 at 3:52 am #

    Publius: and she probably inherited it when the elder Michael Zullo passed away 3 years ago

    By birther standards: “Mike Zullo is dead? Then who is impersonating him in the Cold Case Posse? An Obama operative?????” 😉

  74. avatar
    The Magic M August 1, 2013 at 3:54 am #

    CarlOrcas: I can’t imagine that a close examination of what they’re doing wouldn’t result in a revocation of their non-profit status.

    But wouldn’t birthers just love “IRS goes after people who proved Obama’s BC is a fake”? Such a move would reinforce the belief of those whose dedication might’ve been fading.

  75. avatar
    TImothy Johnson August 1, 2013 at 8:01 am #

    I’m calling B.S. alert on this article! If YOU think it is an illegal scam – why have YOU not filed “charges” on him at the Ariz. AG’s office? Have YOU? No? Why not? Scam?

    Zullo put his name, reputation, legal status, etc. on the line by filing a 200+ point AFFIDAVIT with the Alabama Supreme Court – the result of a 2 year CRIMINAL investigation signed off on by DEMOCRAT – OBAMA SUPPORTING document EXPERT from HAWAII Reed Hayes! (Hayes is certified to testify in every Federal Court in the nation and has done expert work for Obama’s Lawyers – Perkins-Coie) Both HAYES and ZULLO could wind up in prison if they lied about this. Have they been arrested? No. Have they even been questioned by authorities? No. Hmmmm. Seems the only scam in this matter is YOU. I say – turn YOURSELF in. Oh yeah, that’s right. You CAN’T – you work for the fraud Obama! WOW. What ignorance abounds in this article.

  76. avatar
    TImothy Johnson August 1, 2013 at 8:06 am #

    “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” Ha! Okay – the comments are “filtered.” Now we KNOW who is running the scam on this page. Doubt if my comment will make it to post. If it does – it will be interesting to see the Obamabot dribble that soon accompanies it. Wow – what blatant ignoring of facts and truth in this article. Soon -very soon – this whole site will be seen for the scam that it is. If you only knew! 😉

  77. avatar
    TImothy Johnson August 1, 2013 at 8:13 am #

    BTW – you seem to have conveniently left out the fact that Zullo’s work has recently been “peer reviewed” by a convention full of Sheriffs, Police Chiefs, attorneys, a constitutional attorney, state elected officials, and now several congressmen and their chiefs of staff. EVERY one, thus far, AGREES with Zullo’s findings and evidence. NOT A ONE called “fraud” or “scam” on Zullo. EVERY ONE sees the fakery in the B.C. You see – this thing has gone much further into the professional realm than you are willing to admit. Document examiners, 2 years of criminal investigations using 6 investigators, court certified witnesses, filing of official affidavits with state supreme courts, meetings with law enforcement from across the nation, meetings with congressmen, etc. etc. The scam you are running here truly is humorous.

  78. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 1, 2013 at 8:26 am #

    I think that is is a stretch to say that any of this has been “peer reviewed.” Zullo made a presentation in which he lied. The people who heard it have not reviewed the evidence, conducted any independent investigation or anything that could be reasonably called a “review.” The convention he attended was not a regular law-enforcement conference, but a right-fringe group. And finally, where is this statement of agreement from this group or from anybody else for that matter?

    Your spin is noted. You say “6 investigators”: name them. You say this long list of officials agree: name them. You say “court certified witnesses,” but you cannot produce one single report from a “court certified witness” (and courts don’t “certify” witnesses in the first place–see how Zullo fooled you).

    I don’t know if you’re some buddy of Zullo trolling the Internet doing damage control, or whether you are just one of the suckers. The fact is, and this is documented here in great detail, is that Zullo’s investigation repeatedly lied and fabricated evidence, and the reports of its volunteer, sell-appointed experts have consistently proven to be incompetent and wrong.

    Your delusions are not in any humorous. To learn more about exactly how deep in delusion you are, and how badly you have been led around by the nose, I comment these articles to you:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/?cat=3596

    TImothy Johnson: BTW – you seem to have conveniently left out the fact that Zullo’s work has recently been “peer reviewed” by a convention full of Sheriffs, Police Chiefs, attorneys, a constitutional attorney, state elected officials, and now several congressmen and their chiefs of staff. EVERY one, thus far, AGREES with Zullo’s findings and evidence.

  79. avatar
    John Reilly August 1, 2013 at 8:27 am #

    Ah, Mr. Johnson. On this blog we are all happy to review Mr. Hayes’ report. Would you kindly provide a copy? While you are at it, please provide Mr. Hayes’ certification in every federal court. And I agree that if he was hired by the President’s lawyers, that is a very persuasive fact. Since he was hired in a case in court, it’s not much of a secret. Please identify the case by its name and the court file number. Surely if these folks have put their lives and reputations on the line you have this information.

    And do let me know why I, a citizen here in Indiana, need file a criminal complaint when the courts here in Indiana have found that Pres. Obama is eligible. I sure don’t want to be arrested for not filing a criminal complaint, so do, pray tell, tell me the answers to these questions so I can go to town and file a criminal complaint.

  80. avatar
    Yoda August 1, 2013 at 8:31 am #

    TImothy Johnson:
    “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” Ha!Okay – the comments are “filtered.” Now we KNOW who is running the scam on this page. Doubt if my comment will make it to post. If it does– it will be interesting to see the Obamabot dribble that soon accompanies it.Wow – what blatant ignoring of facts and truth in this article. Soon -very soon – this whole site will be seen for the scam that it is. If you only knew!

    Your post made it through moderation. And while it is true that on occasion comments here are filtered, this is hardly the echo chamber that birther sites are. The fact that you are allowed to post here without the substantial risk of being banned or censored should tell you a lot about Doc’s integrity as compared to the admins of birther sites.

    Birther sites do not allow dissenting opinions and any anti birthers who post there are quickly banned. If I was an unbiased observed, and I admit that I am not, that alone would tell me which side is scared of the truth coming out. Anti birthers have nothing to fear because we are never soliciting donations, never calling for arm revolt and have no doubts about the correctness of our position. We welcome the opportunity for birthers to post. The more birthers talk the less credible they are and more desperate the appear.

  81. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 1, 2013 at 8:32 am #

    And now it is out of moderation. If moderation is a mark of a scam, then pretty much every birther blog in the world is a scam (with rare exceptions).

    TImothy Johnson: “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” Ha! Okay – the comments are “filtered.” Now we KNOW who is running the scam on this page.

  82. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater August 1, 2013 at 8:40 am #

    TImothy Johnson:
    I’m calling B.S. alert on this article!If YOU think it is an illegal scam – why have YOU not filed “charges” on him at the Ariz. AG’s office?Have YOU? No?Why not?Scam?

    Zullo put his name, reputation, legal status, etc. on the line by filing a 200+ point AFFIDAVIT with the Alabama Supreme Court – the result of a 2 year CRIMINAL investigation signed off on by DEMOCRAT – OBAMA SUPPORTING document EXPERT from HAWAII Reed Hayes! (Hayes is certified to testify in every Federal Court in the nation and has done expert work for Obama’s Lawyers – Perkins-Coie) Both HAYES and ZULLO could wind up in prison if they lied about this. Have they been arrested? No. Have they even been questioned by authorities? No.Hmmmm. Seems the only scam in this matter is YOU.I say – turn YOURSELF in. Oh yeah, that’s right. You CAN’T – you work for the fraud Obama! WOW.What ignorance abounds in this article.

    An affidavit which is absolutely meaningless since 1. It was filed during an appeal. You cant file new claims during an appeal. Its going to be inadmissable. 2. The affidavit is fraudulent since a majority of it isnt from Used Car salesman Zullos personal knowledge. A majority is copied word for word from birther articles from places like WND in other words hes a plagiarist.

    How do you know Hayes is a democrat? There are no party registrations for voters in Hawaii. Hayes is not a forensic expert hes a graphologist which is akin to palm reading. Pekins Coie is a large firm of thousands of lawyers. One lawyer used him in a case over a decade ago. Do you have the transcripts of the case? Do you know if the case was won or lost or if the verdict hinged on any of Hayes testimony?

  83. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 1, 2013 at 8:42 am #

    Two complaints have already been filed with the IRS regarding illegal activity at the Cold Case Posse, and those complaints are now under investigation by the IRS (who of course don’t comment on ongoing investigations). Real law-enforcement investigations don’t hold press conferences to make their case (a mark of why the CCP isn’t real law enforcement).

    Unlike birthers who file lawsuits and demand charges be filed in hopes of getting some evidence to prove them, normal people get evidence and THEN file a complaint. The problem with me going to the Arizona AG is that Zullo and the Cold Case Posse, in spite of their status as a tax-exempt non-profit organization, do not file the financial statements required by law that would provide some evidence whether or not the CCP is a financial scam and what state laws they might have broken. At this point one cannot know whether the Cold Case Posse is a financial scam that might be illegal, or whether it is a political scam which is not.

    TImothy Johnson: I’m calling B.S. alert on this article! If YOU think it is an illegal scam – why have YOU not filed “charges” on him at the Ariz. AG’s office? Have YOU? No? Why not? Scam?

  84. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater August 1, 2013 at 8:43 am #

    TImothy Johnson:
    “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” Ha!Okay – the comments are “filtered.” Now we KNOW who is running the scam on this page. Doubt if my comment will make it to post. If it does– it will be interesting to see the Obamabot dribble that soon accompanies it.Wow – what blatant ignoring of facts and truth in this article. Soon -very soon – this whole site will be seen for the scam that it is. If you only knew!

    Lets see your first post here and you havent presented a single thing that be considered factual or true. Would you like to try again?

  85. avatar
    Yoda August 1, 2013 at 8:44 am #

    TImothy Johnson:
    I’m calling B.S. alert on this article!If YOU think it is an illegal scam – why have YOU not filed “charges” on him at the Ariz. AG’s office?Have YOU? No?Why not?Scam?

    Zullo put his name, reputation, legal status, etc. on the line by filing a 200+ point AFFIDAVIT with the Alabama Supreme Court – the result of a 2 year CRIMINAL investigation signed off on by DEMOCRAT – OBAMA SUPPORTING document EXPERT from HAWAII Reed Hayes! (Hayes is certified to testify in every Federal Court in the nation and has done expert work for Obama’s Lawyers – Perkins-Coie) Both HAYES and ZULLO could wind up in prison if they lied about this. Have they been arrested? No. Have they even been questioned by authorities? No.Hmmmm. Seems the only scam in this matter is YOU.I say – turn YOURSELF in. Oh yeah, that’s right. You CAN’T – you work for the fraud Obama! WOW.What ignorance abounds in this article.

    I suggest that you go to the fb page, the many lies of Mike Zullo and Carl Gallups or read the annotated version of Zullo’s first affidavit, or, in fact, read from some place other than birther websites. You might learn something.

    But addressing some of your post.

    1) We know for a fact that Zullo lied and fabricated evidence with regard to his investigation. This is not something we believe, it is something that we can prove.

    2) Corsi has inadvertently admitted that the CCP created evidence.

    3) The CCP did not do a criminal investigation as Zullo is not a cop and has no legal authority. Note that no criminal charges were brought against anyone and the Attorney General in Arizona is on record as saying that all they had was speculation.

    4) We know that neither Zullo nor Hayes have seen the original BC, so neither of them can say that the pdf has information on it that does not appear on the original or vice versa. This would be an integral part of any conclusion that pdf is a forgery. Shockingly, when Zullo was told this by a large number of forensic examiners he believed that they were lying.

    5) Zullo never spoke to the mother of the Nordyke twins who is on record as having seen the President’s Mother in the hospital, in labor in August 1961.

    6) Real criminal investigations are given to real cops

    7) Real criminal investigations do not solicit donations.

    8) We do not know what is in the Hayes report because Zullo will not reveal it.

    9) There is no indication that Mr. Hayes is an expert in digital documents.

    10) Zullo’s contention that the pdf was pieced together from other pdfs like some sort of digital Frankenstein is beyond stupid. No forger would ever do that. A forger would create a new original.

    11) According to Zullo’s theory, the forger put certain words on two different layers. Why would anyone do that?

    Should I go on Mr. Johnson, or do you simply want to regurgitate the words of the phony pastor, Carl Gallups?

  86. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 1, 2013 at 8:46 am #

    First there is no such certification–no one is “certified to testify in every Federal Court in the nation.” But more interestingly, I have been unable to find ANY instance of Reed Hayes EVER testifying in federal court. Do you know of one, or do you just say things without support just because it makes you sound knowledgeable?

    TImothy Johnson: Hayes is certified to testify in every Federal Court in the nation

  87. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 1, 2013 at 8:53 am #

    There is an exemption for organizations that are government affiliates, detailed here:

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/rp1995-48.pdf

    However, the Cold Case Posse appears not to fit the criteria for this exemption.

    Curious George: Why wouldn’t the CCP be required to file either a 990 or 990ez as a 501(c)(3)? Or are they just not doing it?

  88. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 1, 2013 at 8:58 am #

    Actually, we don’t know if Hayes testified in that case.

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: Do you know if the case was won or lost or if the verdict hinged on any of Hayes testimony?

  89. avatar
    Yoda August 1, 2013 at 8:59 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    First there is no such certification–no one is “certified to testify in every Federal Court in the nation.” But more interestingly, I have been unable to find ANY instance of Reed Hayes EVER testifying in federal court. Do you know of one, or do you just say things without support just because it makes you sound knowledgeable?

    I will go one step further. There is no such thing as a court certified expert in any court. Such a designation would mean that an expert would automatically be allowed to testify in any case. Not so.

    In every case, an expert must be qualified through a process called voir dire. The expert testifies about his qualifications and the judge decides if he is an expert in the particular field in which he is put forth as an expert. For example, in medicine would not be allowed to testify as an expert in the field of engineering.

    And going one step further, the birther assumption is that if the person is an expert, his/her statement or testimony must be accepted as true. If such where the case, any law suit would be easily resolved. As any practicing attorney will tell you, cases often come down to a battle of experts with different opinions. The fact finder, whether that is a judge or a jury, gets to decide which of the experts to believe. That could be based on qualifications, whether the opinion “sounds” believable or plausible, how well the expert holds up on cross examination and to a very large extent, the information that expert had when the opinion was rendered.

    An expert’s opinion is only as good as the facts it is based on, if the expert was not provided all the facts, then the foundation for the expert’s opinion is weak and easily eroded on cross examination.

    Here, we cannot make any judgments on Haye’s report and have no idea what is opinion is or the “facts” it was based on. Birthers are always so optimistic when there is an announcement such as this, it is like Pavlov’s experiment with dogs.

    But we have seen this before. Zebest was touted as an expert-not. Pappit was touted as an expert-Not. Irey was touted as an expert-Not. And the list goes on and on and on and on.

    Why do I have Sonny and Cher is my head now?

  90. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 1, 2013 at 9:07 am #

    You seem to be under some illusion that Reed Hayes as said something to a court about Obama’s birth certificate, or produced some affidavit under penalty of perjury.

    Clearly Zullo lied in his affidavit that was filed with the Alabama Supreme Court, but such affidavits are not considered by the court (who are only deciding a question of law) and since Zullo’s affidavit is not “material” he’s not liable to go to jail for the lies. Plus he’s in Arizona and not under Alabama jurisdiction.

    I predict that Zullo will never actually testify in court where he would be subject to competent cross examination. I’d pay to see that if it ever happened.

    TImothy Johnson: Both HAYES and ZULLO could wind up in prison if they lied about this.

  91. avatar
    John Reilly August 1, 2013 at 9:09 am #

    Mr. Johnson appears so far to be a drive-by troll.

  92. avatar
    RanTalbott August 1, 2013 at 9:10 am #

    TImothy Johnson: the result of a 2 year CRIMINAL investigation signed off on by DEMOCRAT – OBAMA SUPPORTING document EXPERT from HAWAII Reed Hayes

    And how, EXACTLY, do you know this?
    Hayes’ report has not been released, and the partial paragraph of “conclusions” says nothing about the “evidence” the CCP claims to have generated.

  93. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 1, 2013 at 9:17 am #

    I cannot comment on this ongoing investigation.

    TImothy Johnson: I’m calling B.S. alert on this article! If YOU think it is an illegal scam – why have YOU not filed “charges” on him at the Ariz. AG’s office? Have YOU? No? Why not? Scam?

  94. avatar
    Yoda August 1, 2013 at 9:17 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    You seem to be under some illusion that Reed Hayes as said something to a court about Obama’s birth certificate, or produced some affidavit under penalty of perjury.

    Clearly Zullo lied in his affidavit that was filed with the Alabama Supreme Court, but such affidavits are not considered by the court (who are only deciding a question of law) and since Zullo’s affidavit is not “material” he’s not liable to go to jail for the lies. Plus he’s in Arizona and not under Alabama jurisdiction.

    I predict that Zullo will never actually testify in court where he would be subject to competent cross examination. I’d pay to see that if it ever happened.

    I would pay for the opportunity to cross examine him. After some preliminary questions, my first five questions would be:

    Isn’t it true that you never saw the original Birth Certificate?

    Therefore, isn’t it true that you have if there is any information that appears on the birth certificate is not on the pdf and vice versa?

    You testified that in your opinion the pdf was “forged” with an intent to deceive the public, wouldn’t you agree that if the information on the pdf matches the information on the original BC then there cannot be an intent to deceive?

    Given the FACT that you have not seen the original BC and cannot identify any information that differs between the two documents, you cannot state that the pdf was created in order to deceive the public, can you?

    Those would be the easy questions.

  95. avatar
    RanTalbott August 1, 2013 at 9:25 am #

    A curious statement on a birther website, attributed to Zullo, but not in quotes (it’s about a third of the way down the page):

    http://tatoott1009.com/2013/07/08/sheriff-joe-obama-id-fraud-investigator/

    “The report by Mr. Hayes is now an affidavit that belongs to the Cold Case Posse and cannot be retracted”

    It also mentions Zullo’s claim of copyright (which has been/is being discussed elsewhere).

    But the juxtaposition with the claim that it’s an “affidavit” seems odd. If this were a real criminal investigation, woiuld it not be impossible to copyright the evidence it has collected?

  96. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 1, 2013 at 9:45 am #

    The Magic M: But wouldn’t birthers just love “IRS goes after people who proved Obama’s BC is a fake”? Such a move would reinforce the belief of those whose dedication might’ve been fading.

    As Doc noted a couple complaints have been filed with the IRS. The birthers may get their wish on this one sooner than we expect.

  97. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 1, 2013 at 9:48 am #

    TImothy Johnson: 2 years of criminal investigations using 6 investigators,

    Who are the “investigators”?

    They can’t be Arizona peace officers since Zullo and the Sheriff have said the posse isn’t using any department resources so if they’re not certified peace officers they don’t have any police powers, right?

  98. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 1, 2013 at 9:50 am #

    TImothy Johnson: Doubt if my comment will make it to post.

    Oh, ye of little faith.

  99. avatar
    The Magic M August 1, 2013 at 9:58 am #

    TImothy Johnson: the result of a 2 year CRIMINAL investigation signed off on by DEMOCRAT – OBAMA SUPPORTING document EXPERT from HAWAII Reed Hayes

    Why is his affiliation so important to you? There have been several birthers who self-identify as (faux or real) Democrats. This doesn’t make them one iota more or less credible. (Though for some it seems a stretch to assume they can claim they’re “Democrats”, yet accuse the Democrats of being communist traitors at the same time.)

    TImothy Johnson: you seem to have conveniently left out the fact that Zullo’s work has recently been “peer reviewed” by a convention full of Sheriffs […] EVERY one, thus far, AGREES with Zullo’s findings and evidence.

    How do you know who agreed in Zullo’s little secret presentation?

    TImothy Johnson: filing of official affidavits with state supreme courts

    Just one very simple question you should be able to answer:
    Why did Zullo submit an affidavit about the Hayes report and not the Hayes report itself? Does that not strike you as odd? Is this how law enforcement operates in court? Not by saying “here’s the evidence” but by saying “I looked at the evidence and believe me it’s solid… take my word for it… no, don’t need to look for yourself… I’m a cop, danggit, I ain’t lyin’!”? Have you ever seen this happen in a case before? I mean, outside the Spanish Inquisition?

  100. avatar
    Jim August 1, 2013 at 10:02 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    I predict that Zullo will never actually testify in court where he would be subject to competent cross examination. I’d pay to see that if it ever happened.

    Timothy, if the article is somehow inaccurate, I’d be glad to fix. But, the question I have for you is even simpler, if Mr Zullo has such a strong case against the President and it is such a slam dunk, why hasn’t HE filed charges?

    I was thinking about this last night, Mr Zullo is of course free to sue me about the article…but I doubt I’d have to pay for a lawyer. I think I could locate 10-20 lawyers willing to defend me pro bono just for the chance at Zullo on the witness stand under oath.

  101. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 1, 2013 at 10:03 am #

    RanTalbott: But the juxtaposition with the claim that it’s an “affidavit” seems odd. If this were a real criminal investigation, woiuld it not be impossible to copyright the evidence it has collected?

    Anything can be copyrighted but if this were a real investigation the first moment the affidavit is introduced in court it moves into the public domain and the copyright is meaningless.

    So…..it makes one wonder what Mr. Zullo is really doing and where he’s really going.

  102. avatar
    gorefan August 1, 2013 at 10:07 am #

    RanTalbott: It also mentions Zullo’s claim of copyright

    Here is the latest Zullo video, actually there is nothing new in this video except a clim for an inside source at Kapiolani:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Px9XtjUAIzs

    There is a lot on the Hayes report and the copyright thing. It sounds like it hasn’t been copyrighted but is in the process of being copyrighted. He says they copyrighted it to keep it out of civil lawsuits by people like Orly Taitz.

    His statement on Congressman Stockman is interesting.

    “I think we’ll have a meeting or two to come . And if my gut is correct I think Mr. Stockman is going to help us tremendously.”

    Sounds like Congressman Stockman is wavering.

    BTW, would copywriting the report prevent someone else from presenting it as collaborating evidence in a civil lawsuit?

  103. avatar
    realist August 1, 2013 at 10:20 am #

    RanTalbott:
    A curious statement on a birther website, attributed to Zullo, but not in quotes (it’s about a third of the way down the page):

    http://tatoott1009.com/2013/07/08/sheriff-joe-obama-id-fraud-investigator/

    “The report by Mr. Hayes is now an affidavit that belongs to the Cold Case Posse and cannot be retracted”

    It also mentions Zullo’s claim of copyright (which has been/is being discussed elsewhere).

    But the juxtaposition with the claim that it’s an “affidavit” seems odd. If this were a real criminal investigation, woiuld it not be impossible to copyright the evidence it has collected?

    Yet another idiotic statement from Zullo. The “report” can certainly be retracted and/or amended in whole or in part.

    Just more proof Zullo knows not of that which he speaks.

  104. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 1, 2013 at 10:20 am #

    gorefan: There is a lot on the Hayes report and the copyright thing. It sounds like it hasn’t been copyrighted but is in the process of being copyrighted. He says they copyrighted it to keep it out of civil lawsuits by people like Orly Taitz.

    That’s utter nonsense. First original works are automatically copyrighted at the moment they are created. You can register them but they are protected the moment they are created. What he thinks he is doing is beyond me. I’ll watch the video when I have a moment.

    I’ll leave it to the lawyers among us to answer the question about keeping it out of civil suits but my first response would be that’s also nonsense.

  105. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater August 1, 2013 at 10:33 am #

    CarlOrcas: That’s utter nonsense. First original works are automatically copyrighted at the moment they are created. You can register them but they are protected the moment they are created. What he thinks he is doing is beyond me. I’ll watch the video when I have a moment.I’ll leave it to the lawyers among us to answer the question about keeping it out of civil suits but my first response would be that’s also nonsense.

    I don’t understand how Zullo thinks he has the right to copyright someone else’s work. Then again he also wrote an affidavit claiming personal knowledge based on someone else’s work.

  106. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater August 1, 2013 at 10:34 am #

    gorefan: Here is the latest Zullo video, actually there is nothing new in this video except a clim for an inside source at Kapiolani:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Px9XtjUAIzsThere is a lot on the Hayes report and the copyright thing. It sounds like it hasn’t been copyrighted but is in the process of being copyrighted. He says they copyrighted it to keep it out of civil lawsuits by people like Orly Taitz.His statement on Congressman Stockman is interesting.“I think we’ll have a meeting or two to come . And if my gut is correct I think Mr. Stockman is going to help us tremendously.”Sounds like Congressman Stockman is wavering.BTW, would copywriting the report prevent someone else from presenting it as collaborating evidence in a civil lawsuit?

    But isn’t Klayman’s case a civil suit?

  107. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 1, 2013 at 10:59 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: I don’t understand how Zullo thinks he has the right to copyright someone else’s work.Then again he also wrote an affidavit claiming personal knowledge based on someone else’s work.

    Hayes is the creator of the work and he can sell or assign his rights…..his copyright….to the posse or Zullo or the Easter Bunny, for that matter.

    What Zullo thinks he is accomplishing at this point is beyond me.

  108. avatar
    RetiredLawyer August 1, 2013 at 11:06 am #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: But isn’t Klayman’s case a civil suit?

    Copyright law has almost nothing to do with the issues of use of the report. A major feature of copyright law is the doctrine of “fair use”, which in the context of the report would mean that anyone in a legal proceeding could make a copy of the report to file in the court proceeding.

    In addition, of course, “fair use” would allow anyone to use as much of the report as needed to comment on it. E.g. the report says “x y z” and the reality is “a b c”.

    Also, copyright exists from the moment something is written down, it does not need registration. And, copyright is owned by the person who wrote the thing. There are a few exceptions, all of which require that the person who wrote the thing be employed to write the thing and transfer copyright to the employer BEFORE THE WORK IS STARTED, or transfer copyright to the other person by filing for copyright and filing a transfer of ownership at the same time. Now the last may be what Z is doing, but I really doubt it.

  109. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 1, 2013 at 11:12 am #

    RetiredLawyer: A major feature of copyright law is the doctrine of “fair use”,

    Thank you counselor. I was just getting ready to mention fair use.

    As I’ve said I’m at a loss to understand what he thinks he is accomplishing with this dodge. In the video he talks about the report being “under seal” if it’s copyrighted.

    Bottom line: He’s nuts.

  110. avatar
    Reality Check August 1, 2013 at 11:29 am #

    Mark Kessler said many people walked out of Zullo’s presentation at CSPAOA and some even heckled him. I have yet to see a single member of Congress issue a statement claiming that the President’s birth certificate is a forgery.

    TImothy Johnson: BTW – you seem to have conveniently left out the fact that Zullo’s work has recently been “peer reviewed” by a convention full of Sheriffs, Police Chiefs, attorneys, a constitutional attorney, state elected officials, and now several congressmen and their chiefs of staff. EVERY one, thus far, AGREES with Zullo’s findings and evidence.

  111. avatar
    Curious George August 1, 2013 at 11:44 am #

    Reality Check: Mark Kessler said many people walked out of Zullo’s presentation at CSPAOA and some even heckled him. I have yet to see a single member of Congress issue a statement claiming that the President’s birth certificate is a forgery.

    Kessler had several unkind words for Zullo’s CSPOA presentation.

    http://birtherthinktank.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/sheriff-big-iron-kessler-calls-out-the-arizona-kid/

  112. avatar
    RanTalbott August 1, 2013 at 6:58 pm #

    RetiredLawyer: all of which require that the person who wrote the thing be employed to write the thing and transfer copyright to the employer BEFORE THE WORK IS STARTED

    Pretty much all of the original software I’ve done as a consultant has been under contracts with a “work made for hire” clause. Don’t lawyers usually do the same thing when they hire an outside expert to write an analysis?

    I’m still wondering about the “affidavit” business, though. If you sign an affidavit as part of an official government investigation, doesn’t the government you wrote it for own it? If this were official, with the CCP being deputized, wouldn’t the sheriff’s office automatically get any copyright? Is there such a thing as a copyright on government records?

  113. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 1, 2013 at 7:20 pm #

    RanTalbott: Is there such a thing as a copyright on government records?

    As a general rule it is my recollection that the answer is no…..public works, public records are available to the public except for certain circumstances like investigations that are underway, security matters, etc.

    I’m sure our lawyer will fill us in.

  114. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 1, 2013 at 7:55 pm #

    It’s an interesting question. If Zullo paid for it out of his own pocket and was not reimbursed by the CCP, then it could be a work for hire, he could own the copyright, and he could publish it in his next book and collect the profits.

    If on the other hand the CCP paid for it, then the CCP could publish the book, but Mike Zullo shouldn’t be entitled to any money for it.

    The last time around, Zullo took the CCP work product, published it, and took the money, which rumor has it is the basis for at least one of the IRS complaints.

    But of course Zullo hasn’t published any book, so the discussion is only hypothetical.

    RanTalbott: I’m still wondering about the “affidavit” business, though. If you sign an affidavit as part of an official government investigation, doesn’t the government you wrote it for own it? If this were official, with the CCP being deputized, wouldn’t the sheriff’s office automatically get any copyright? Is there such a thing as a copyright on government records?

  115. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 1, 2013 at 7:57 pm #

    At this point Zullo can claim anything he wants about the report without anyone else having the right to see it. That’s what Zullo gets from the gambit.

    CarlOrcas:As I’ve said I’m at a loss to understand what he thinks he is accomplishing with this dodge. In the video he talks about the report being “under seal” if it’s copyrighted.

  116. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 1, 2013 at 8:13 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The last time around, Zullo took the CCP work product, published it, and took the money, which rumor has it is the basis for at least one of the IRS complaints.

    But of course Zullo hasn’t published any book, so the discussion is only hypothetical.

    Didn’t Zullo tap dance on the proceeds by saying he’d given the money to his church? What was it…..$1,600?

    One thought: What if Hayes didn’t charge for it? Seems to me the rights would remain with him unless and until he transferred them to Zullo or the posse.

    Oh, what tangled webs we weave………………….

  117. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 1, 2013 at 8:15 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    At this point Zullo can claim anything he wants about the report without anyone else having the right to see it. That’s what Zullo gets from the gambit.

    The ultimate shell game.

  118. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater August 1, 2013 at 11:04 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Didn’t Zullo tap dance on the proceeds by saying he’d given the money to his church? What was it…..$1,600?

    One thought: What if Hayes didn’t charge for it? Seems to me the rights would remain with him unless and until he transferred them to Zullo or the posse.

    Oh, what tangled webs we weave………………….

    What church was that Zullo gave the money to? Maybe he laundered it through Carl Gallups claiming it was his church. It would explain all the fellatio Carl does.

  119. avatar
    CarlOrcas August 1, 2013 at 11:25 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: What church was that Zullo gave the money to?Maybe he laundered it through Carl Gallups claiming it was his church.It would explain all the fellatio Carl does.

    Hmm. Good question. It certainly seems possible…..given the players.

  120. avatar
    The Magic M August 2, 2013 at 5:13 am #

    gorefan: He says they copyrighted it to keep it out of civil lawsuits by people like Orly Taitz.

    Yeah right. Maybe his gullible followers believe that…

    My guess is he copyrighted it to be able to send cease-and-desist letters to anyone publishing the report with the intent to debunk it, should it ever surface (he probably believes the NSA already snooped on it and relays it to us co-conspirators).

    The other explanation is that his next book will be “The Annotated Hayes Report, or How I stopped using my brain and learned to see the forgery”.

  121. avatar
    Curious George August 2, 2013 at 10:53 am #

    CarlOrcas: Didn’t Zullo tap dance on the proceeds by saying he’d given the money to his church? What was it…..$1,600?One thought: What if Hayes didn’t charge for it? Seems to me the rights would remain with him unless and until he transferred them to Zullo or the posse.Oh, what tangled webs we weave………………….

    Just like Fred Astaire. To donate the funds, he had to be paid the funds. Pretty slick.

    http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/video-arpaios-lead-investigator-talks-obama-birth-certificate-to-abc15

  122. avatar
    Yoda August 2, 2013 at 10:54 am #

    Both RC and Capt. Charles Tuttle have issued challeges to Zullo and/or Gallups to appear with Capt. Tuttle for a two hour debate on the legitimacy of the lfbc, the pdf and the CCP investigation.

    https://www.facebook.com/TheLiesOfMikeZullo/posts/667763606585269?notif_t=like

    I am willing to bet any amount of money that they do not accept this challenge. Gallups may make fun of it on his Fellatio Friday radio show, but nothing more.

  123. avatar
    Curious George August 2, 2013 at 11:26 am #

    Scam: “A fraudulent or deceptive act or operation.” Put this under the deceptive category. Found this on Dispatches from Birtherstan for July 29, 2013. Here’s another myth (Breitbart interview of Arpaio) that goes down the drain. “Birthers get debunked by a fellow birther.”

    http://badfiction.typepad.com/badfiction/2013/07/dispatches-from-birtherstan-23-29-july-2013.html

  124. avatar
    Jim August 2, 2013 at 11:34 am #

    Yoda:

    I am willing to bet any amount of money that they do not accept this challenge.Gallups may make fun of it on his Fellatio Friday radio show, but nothing more.

    We know exactly how they’ll handle the challenge…
    http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7n9y4VJhc1rvvt9fo1_500.jpg

  125. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater August 2, 2013 at 12:09 pm #

    Yoda: Both RC and Capt. Charles Tuttle have issued challeges to Zullo and/or Gallups to appear with Capt. Tuttle for a two hour debate on the legitimacy of the lfbc, the pdf and the CCP investigation. https://www.facebook.com/TheLiesOfMikeZullo/posts/667763606585269?notif_t=likeI am willing to bet any amount of money that they do not accept this challenge. Gallups may make fun of it on his Fellatio Friday radio show, but nothing more.

    I suggest expanding the scope of the challenge. I don’t want to hear 2 hours worth of them talking about a PDF when the issuing authority has verified the document. I want a complete rundown of every lie they’ve told and an explanation. I want to know about why they lied about the coding manual and Gallups inability to do math with his 1000% forgery claim.

  126. avatar
    Dr. Charles Tuttle August 2, 2013 at 12:14 pm #

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: I suggest expanding the scope of the challenge.I don’t want to hear 2 hours worth of them talking about a PDF when the issuing authority has verified the document.I want a complete rundown of every lie they’ve told and an explanation.I want to know about why they lied about the coding manual and Gallups inability to do math with his 1000% forgery claim.

    Assuming that they ever take us up on the offer, I have every intention of exposing every lie that they have engaged in with regard to this non investigation, including the coding. But it is a moot point. Neither of them will ever come on with us. They are cowards. Gallups is a bully as demonstrated when RC called his show. He will never appear on any show where it is not friendly toward his agenda.

  127. avatar
    Reality Check August 2, 2013 at 12:45 pm #

    We can cover all of those items of course.

    I am sure Carl will display the same courage that Scott E. did and come on the show to defend his positions. Oh wait …. Actually I am very sure of that. 😉

    Dr Kenneth Noisewater: I suggest expanding the scope of the challenge. I don’t want to hear 2 hours worth of them talking about a PDF when the issuing authority has verified the document. I want a complete rundown of every lie they’ve told and an explanation. I want to know about why they lied about the coding manual and Gallups inability to do math with his 1000% forgery claim.

  128. avatar
    Yoda August 2, 2013 at 4:13 pm #

    I think that a nerve has been struck:

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/08/latest-on-sheriff-joes-obama-fraud-case.html

  129. avatar
    Arthur August 2, 2013 at 4:31 pm #

    Yoda: I think that a nerve has been struck:

    On the other hand, birthers have been complaining for months about Gallups’ refusal to identify members of Congress he claims are on the verge of launching an investigation. They whine and moan about it, but Gallups’ obvious obfuscation hasn’t dented their commitment to bitherism.

  130. avatar
    Jim August 2, 2013 at 4:34 pm #

    Yoda:
    I think that a nerve has been struck:

    ORIGINAL BIRTHER 6 minutes ago
    “Congress is leaving until September the 9th. Nothing will be done. Carl gallups is a liar and a slick talker. All he cares about is money and getting his name known. Three weeks ago he said they would release all the information if nothing was done by October,now he’s saying they won’t release it until January 2017 after he leaves office. Carl gallups is a liar and a slick talker. I have meant plenty of people like him in my life and they are all the same.”

    Don’t forget the “Send Money” part. Guess Zullo plans to see if he can run this scam till the President leaves office in 2017…and THEN they’ll see all this great evidence. In the meantime, SEND MONEY….Zullo wants to work on his tan, in Hawaii. And the amazing thing is…the scammers TELL THEM “Hey, we’re scamming you, send more money” and they continue to fall for it!!! BWAHAHAHAHA

  131. avatar
    Yoda August 2, 2013 at 4:42 pm #

    That audio was posted today. Yesterday, someone posting as ppsimmons posted on the “lies” page. I was just putting those two things together.

  132. avatar
    Rickey August 2, 2013 at 5:57 pm #

    Yoda:
    I think that a nerve has been struck:

    And Falcon is now spreading another lie, claiming that Obama signed an Executive Order giving him and his family Secret Service protection for life. In fact it was a bi-partisan law passed last December, the Former Presidents Protection Act of 2012. It also gives lifetime protection to George W. Bush and all future presidents.

    http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/01/obama-grants-himself-lifetime-secret-service-protection-153854.html

  133. avatar
    Arthur August 2, 2013 at 6:02 pm #

    Jim: (Quoting “Original Birther”) Carl gallups is a liar and a slick talker.

    OB is a Orly Taitz sycophant, hence his sneering dismissal of Gallups.

  134. avatar
    jtmunkus August 5, 2013 at 5:50 pm #

    Excellent article, Jim.

    Fun to see a few of the scammed come out and double down on their blind trust for the con man Zullo, regurgitating his lies, without regard to any facts at all.

    Congressman Steve Stockman seems to be on a personal mission to discredit President Obama at all costs. At this writing, his website is tracking his efforts to compel the president and former Secretary of State Clinton to release information about the phony scandal involving the embassy attack in Benghazi, Libya (Stockman files Discharge Petition on Benghazi Coverup – See more at: http://stockman2014.com/#sthash.pKPgs1ah.dpuf), and a half-witted attempt to subpoena records on the NSA (Stockman requests subpoena of NSA’s White House, IRS phone logs – See more at: http://stockman2014.com/#sthash.pKPgs1ah.dpuf). He even advertises that “Stockman to draw name of AR-15 winner on Independence Day” (See more at: http://stockman2014.com/#sthash.pKPgs1ah.dpuf). But he makes absolutely no mention of any involvement in the phony Zullo inquisition.

    In fact, Stockman has never made a single statement that he supports Zullo or that he even believes him. Neither has any other member of Congress ever made any statements in support to Zullo. Just more bluster from the con men trying to keep alive the scam that is the MCSO CCP.

    I think it’s fair to say that, based on the facts, Steve Stockman has never been and isn’t intending to be a supporter of the fake “Obama fraud investigation.”

    And no one, with the exception of the handwriting examiner Reed Hayes, has confirmed that they in any way support Zullo and his political smear charade. But of course, we are not allowed to see the “damning” Hayes report, because Zullo the con man/car salesman is afraid of it being quickly summarily debunked.

    Doc, have you filed public records requests with Maricopa County to detail the public funds used to pay for Hawai’i, Missouri, Texas & DC trips, badges and county cars (& gas), cell phone(s) and expensive rented office space in the Wells Fargo building, that we know have been used by Zullo, Jeffrey and/or Brian Reilly? It wouldn’t surprise me if there are gas and/or expense credit cards that they have used for travel and other costs.

    Anyway, excellent demonstration of how the gullible who have been scammed continue to fight for denial to comfort themselves that they indeed have not been duped.

    Any day now – if you send more money – we will get you the prince’s millions. Any day now – if you send more money – we will pay you your Irish lottery winnings. Any day now – if you send more money – we will divulge everything about the unvestigation.

    But send money.

  135. avatar
    Publius August 5, 2013 at 7:43 pm #

    jtmunkus: In fact, Stockman has never made a single statement that he supports Zullo or that he even believes him. Neither has any other member of Congress ever made any statements of support to Zullo. Just more bluster from the con men trying to keep alive the scam that is the MCSO CCP.

    I think it’s fair to say that, based on the facts, Steve Stockman has never been and isn’t intending to be a supporter of the fake “Obama fraud investigation.”

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/08/rep-stockman-confirms-obama-fraud-bill.html

  136. avatar
    jtmunkus August 5, 2013 at 8:19 pm #

    Publius: http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/08/rep-stockman-confirms-obama-fraud-bill.html

    Trying to convince me that Steve Stockman has confirmed he’s doing something about this two-bit, fraudulent smear job against our legitimate American president by referring me to a speech by Congressman Yoyo saying he heard something – or even Zullo and Gallups’ ongoing empty promises – is laughable.

    Give me a call when Steve Stockman confirms he’s interested or is doing something about it.

    “Yoyo said it!”

    That’s a good one!

  137. avatar
    Arthur August 5, 2013 at 8:33 pm #

    Publius,

    I would be a mistake to assume a headline at ORYR is:

    a. representing what is contained in the actual article or (more likely) video/audio.
    b. accurately representing the facts

  138. avatar
    Publius August 5, 2013 at 10:42 pm #

    jtmunkus: Trying to convince me that Steve Stockman has confirmed he’s doing somethingabout this two-bit, fraudulent smear job against our legitimate American president by referring me to a speech by Congressman Yoyo saying he heard something – or even Zullo and Gallups’ ongoing empty promises – is laughable.

    I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I am merely noting that there exists a recording in which Representative Yoho stated, if I heard him correctly, that he spoke to Stockman, asked him whether he was in fact sponsoring such a thing, and Stockman replied – according to Rep. Yoho – “Yeah, we’re doing that. Would you want to get on that?”

  139. avatar
    Publius August 5, 2013 at 10:43 pm #

    Arthur:
    Publius,

    I would be a mistake to assume a headline at ORYR is:

    a. representing what is contained in the actual article or (more likely) video/audio.
    b. accurately representing the facts

    That’s why I listened to the audio.

  140. avatar
    jtmunkus August 5, 2013 at 11:07 pm #

    Yoyo also suggested it would be a waste of time to chase any birther activities. In fact, Secretary General Zullo also backpedaled at the suggestion Stockman was introducing a bill.

    Like I said, when there is a factual confirmation that Stockman is planning on some insane caper to introduce some sort of “bill” to prove the president is somehow secretly foreign, give me a call.

    Until then, keep your masturbatory fantasies to yourself.

  141. avatar
    Arthur August 5, 2013 at 11:23 pm #

    Publius: that he spoke to Stockman, asked him whether he was in fact sponsoring such a thing,

    Just so. Of course, though Yoho has been in Congress for only 6 months, he’s already mastered the art of inscrutability. We’re left wondering what exactly Stockman is sponsoring (a bill or something else?), and how exactly it’s connected to birtherism? If it’s a bill, my first guess is that it’s about getting presidential candidates to prove their eligibility.

    What birthers are clamoring for is an investigation, not a bill, and Yoho’s response was garbled enough to give them hope, and give him enough room to do nothing.

  142. avatar
    Publius August 6, 2013 at 1:31 am #

    jtmunkus:
    Yoyo also suggested it would be a waste of time to chase any birther activities. In fact, Secretary General Zullo also backpedaled at the suggestion Stockman was introducing a bill.

    Like I said, when there is a factual confirmation that Stockman is planning on some insane caper to introduce some sort of “bill” to prove the president is somehow secretly foreign, give me a call.

    Until then, keep your masturbatory fantasies to yourself.

    There’s no need for you to be a rude jerk.

    I simply reported something that looks like news.

    Good grief.

  143. avatar
    Publius August 6, 2013 at 1:32 am #

    Arthur: If it’s a bill, my first guess is that it’s about getting presidential candidates to prove their eligibility.

    You could be right. I don’t know.

  144. avatar
    jtmunkus August 6, 2013 at 4:12 am #

    Publius:

    I simply reported something that looks like news.

    Good grief.

    Maybe you should find some real news sources.

  145. avatar
    gorefan August 6, 2013 at 10:28 am #

    Publius: Representative Yoho stated, if I heard him correctly, that he spoke to Stockman, asked him whether he was in fact sponsoring such a thing, and Stockman replied – according to Rep. Yoho – “Yeah, we’re doing that. Would you want to get on that?”

    What’s interesting about Rep. Yoho’s comment is that last week the brither known here as “John” posted a comment at ORYR that he had cornered Yoho at a tea party gathering and asked him about Stockman.

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/07/mike-zullo-updates-obama-id-fraud-case.html

    “John 1 week ago

    Met with Congressman Ted Yoho of Florida about Obama’s birth certificate. Told him to reach out to Congressman Steve Stockman of Texas. Stockman is close friends with Ted Yoho. Yoho said he would contact Steve Stockman about Obama’s forged BC. Please call Congressman Ted Yoho of Florida and tell him to look into Obama’s forged BC.”

    And

    “John 1 week ago”

    “Yoho had the usual demeanor when you ask any Congressman that question. Seemed to want to ignore the question. However, when he did hear that Steve Stockman was involved, his interested peaked because Stockman was a good friend of his. He said he would contact Stockman personally about the issue. Yoho’s Chief of Staff, a young girl, seems to know much more about it. She said everyone up in Washington pretty much knows that Obama’s BC is BS but she said its very tense and tricky issue to deal with.”

    John is not the most honest of birthers but I believe him. And it dovetails with Rep. Yoho’s comment.

  146. avatar
    Rickey August 6, 2013 at 11:26 am #

    Arthur: If it’s a bill, my first guess is that it’s about getting presidential candidates to prove their eligibility.

    Which, if passed and signed into law, would have absolutely no effect upon Obama. The birthers are desperately grasping at straws again.

  147. avatar
    Publius August 6, 2013 at 12:25 pm #

    jtmunkus: Maybe you should find some real news sources.

    There is an audio recording of a United States Representative making comments that seem to state that both he and another United States Representative, whom he says that he spoke with, are taking some action to pursue some kind of birther claim. Did you listen to it?

    In my opinion, that’s news. I didn’t report just some unverifiable allegation that a Congressman may have said something. I gave a link that leads to an audio recording of what a Congressman said.

    If you don’t want to discuss developments related to birtherism, maybe you would be better off taking a break from this site. Because the last time I checked, that’s what this site was about.

  148. avatar
    jtmunkus August 6, 2013 at 1:55 pm #

    Of course I listened to your clip.

    I made the point that we have no first-hand, reliable facts to support that the idiot purported birther Congressman Stockman has decided to pursue this futile smear attack against our legitimate American President Barack Hussein Obama, II.

    You confirmed my point by posting an audio clip of a rumor by a junior Congressman who said he told Stockman that chasing birtherism is a waste of time. Hardly “news” that verifies anything about Stockman, who, to this date, still has not said anything publicly about supporting the racist birther cause.

  149. avatar
    Kiwiwriter August 8, 2013 at 1:07 pm #

    Fascinating article…I enjoyed reading it immensely. It explains very much how con games work in general and Zullo’s specifically.

    My great-uncle was a con man, and he told me once that the key to being a successful con man was to make the mark WANT to give you his or her money.

    Uncle Frank was a pretty good con man, I’m afraid.

  150. avatar
    Wuznt Me August 10, 2013 at 1:04 am #

    It’s like you could replace Mike Zullo’s name with Obummers name and this article makes just as much sense.
    Have any of you even looked at the “birth certificate” that took 2yrs? to produce? It’s such a horrible fake. A ten year old is better at photoshop.
    Even if it’s all just a bad mistake then why did he lie about his place of birth at every opportunity that benefited him before becoming president?

  151. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 10, 2013 at 2:34 am #

    Yes, I’ve looked at the President’s birth certificate in quite a lot of detail and that’s why I am confident that it is authentic and that you are just parroting the rumors that pass for evidence among birthers.

    If you’re so smart, how come I can spell Zullo, but you can’t spell Obama?

    Wuznt Me: It’s like you could replace Mike Zullo’s name with Obummers name and this article makes just as much sense.
    Have any of you even looked at the “birth certificate” that took 2yrs? to produce? It’s such a horrible fake. A ten year old is better at photoshop.

  152. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 10, 2013 at 2:39 am #

    If you knew who Publius was, I’m sure you would be nicer to him.

    jtmunkus: Until then, keep your masturbatory fantasies to yourself.

  153. avatar
    JD Reed August 10, 2013 at 10:25 am #

    Wuznt Me: It’s like you could replace Mike Zullo’s name with Obummers name and this article makes just as much sense.Have any of you even looked at the “birth certificate” that took 2yrs? to produce? It’s such a horrible fake. A ten year old is better at photoshop.Even if it’s all just a bad mistake then why did he lie about his place of birth at every opportunity that benefited him before becoming president?

    Wuznt Me,you’re obviously such a deep-dyed birther that you’ll never even look at, much less evaluate, evidence that doesn’t fit your agenda. (See confirmation bias, the last chapter of 2nd Timothy concerning itching ears.)
    But didn’t your mother teach you anything about manners? Name calling, such as “Obummer” for the President of the United States, says far more about your character than it does about the President’s.
    Name calling is also very weak — actually, non-existent — argumentation.

  154. avatar
    RanTalbott August 13, 2013 at 10:42 am #

    Wuznt Me: Even if it’s all just a bad mistake then why did he lie about his place of birth at every opportunity that benefited him before becoming president?

    Because you haven’t stopped beating your wife.

    Go look up “begging the question” before you try to debate with grown-ups.

  155. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater August 13, 2013 at 10:54 am #

    Wuznt Me: It’s like you could replace Mike Zullo’s name with Obummers name and this article makes just as much sense.Have any of you even looked at the “birth certificate” that took 2yrs? to produce? It’s such a horrible fake. A ten year old is better at photoshop.Even if it’s all just a bad mistake then why did he lie about his place of birth at every opportunity that benefited him before becoming president?

    Obama showed a birth certificate back in 2008. The long form was released in 2011. Clinton hasn’t publicly released his birth certificate neither has Jimmy Carter or George W. Bush. He never lied about his place of birth he’s always said he was born in Hawaii.

  156. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 13, 2013 at 11:40 am #

    Wuznt Me:
    Have any of you even looked at the “birth certificate” that took 2yrs? to produce? It’s such a horrible fake. A ten year old is better at photoshop.

    Doc has seen it!
    Where’s your argument now, slapnuts?

  157. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 13, 2013 at 11:41 am #

    Publius: http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2013/08/rep-stockman-confirms-obama-fraud-bill.html

    Citing Birther Report as a viable news source?
    You fail the internet, and at life.

  158. avatar
    Publius August 13, 2013 at 2:47 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Citing Birther Report as a viable news source?
    You fail the internet, and at life.

    You don’t know a thing about me.

    And Birther Report is mentioned here all the time. I would venture to guess that directly or indirectly, Birther Report is almost certainly the single biggest source of news for the Obama Conspiracy site.

    It’s probably 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.

  159. avatar
    JD Reed August 13, 2013 at 3:31 pm #

    Publius: You don’t know a thing about me. And Birther Report is mentioned here all the time. I would venture to guess that directly or indirectly, Birther Report is almost certainly the single biggest source of news for the Obama Conspiracy site.It’s probably 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.

    It’s a great source for barnyard waste.

  160. avatar
    Publius August 13, 2013 at 3:46 pm #

    Yes, and isn’t barnyard waste the entire topic of this site?

  161. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 13, 2013 at 3:47 pm #

    Publius: You don’t know a thing about me.

    And Birther Report is mentioned here all the time. I would venture to guess that directly or indirectly, Birther Report is almost certainly the single biggest source of news for the Obama Conspiracy site.

    It’s probably 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.

    Mentioned here? Yes.
    Cited as a source for amusement and stupidity? Constantly.
    Cited as a news source? Never.

    Publius:
    Yes, and isn’t barnyard waste the entire topic of this site?

    Well, birthers and their ilk are barnyard waste, and we discuss birthers here, so in that respect, I suppose it is!

  162. avatar
    Publius August 13, 2013 at 3:48 pm #

    I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but if it weren’t for Birther Report, Orly Taitz, Mario Apuzzo, and WorldNetDaily, what would there be to talk about here?

  163. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 13, 2013 at 3:51 pm #

    Publius:
    I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but if it weren’t for Birther Report, Orly Taitz, Mario Apuzzo, and WorldNetDaily, what would there be to talk about here?

    Probably the crazy moonbats that hang out on freeway overpasses going on about Obama’s BC, and protesters holding signs that say “Kenyan go home!” The stupids are out there in real life too.