Main Menu

Crude forgery

It seems that every time I think about it, I realize yet another reason why birther beliefs that Obama’s published long form birth certificate is a computer-generated forgery are ludicrous. This one just came to mind.

Fact 1: Anti-birthers have been able to scan a facsimile of Obama’s birth certificate and to create a PDF file with a simple work flow that has a remarkable resemblance to the White House PDF file. Not only does it look like it, numerous obscure details buried in the binary code match up: Scaling, alignment, separation, color spaces and even comments all match.

Fact 2: Birthers claim that Obama’s PDF file is a crude forgery, created by Adobe Photoshop. Only, birthers have never produced a PDF document even remotely matching the Obama PDF with Photoshop. They can make one that looks similar (after all, they need only make a copy of Obama’s or assemble one from its parts), but they have never come close to replicating the alignment, replicate the scaling, the layer separation, color spaces or comments in any software process. If the forger of Obama’s certificate is inept, how more inept are the birthers who can’t make one like it?

Obvious conclusion: The birthers lose. The certificate’s legit.

,

39 Responses to Crude forgery

  1. avatar
    richCares August 16, 2013 at 2:29 am #

    the PDF copy was an informational copy from a Hawaiian certified certificate, calling it a forgery is silly. The original copy was available to the press and the cold case posse could have easily made arrangements to see it, they did not. Note that a snapshot was made of it by Savanna Guthrie, this also ignored by Clown Zullu
    .
    except for those in the clown car, this issue is over

  2. avatar
    The Magic M August 16, 2013 at 3:31 am #

    Only, birthers have never produced a PDF document even remotely matching the Obama PDF with Photoshop.

    Indeed. I wonder why I never thought of that. Birthers love to play “shift the burden of proof” and demand we produce an identical copy of the PDF by just using a scanner, yet birthers have never proven a normal forgery workflow using Photoshop (or whatever) would result in the “anomalies” found in the PDF.
    After all, we have found numerous instances which clearly point to “a human forger would never have done that”.

    And still birthers refuse to use the easiest conspiracy argument, namely that some highly advanced FBI software was used to automatically (with some human intervention) create the forgery. That would be an argument much harder to disprove (not that we need to do that, of course) because basically anything could be ascribed to that “unknown super software” and its “secret algorithms”.

    But birthers are unable to do that because it would contradict their original narrative “Obama forged it himself and did a lousy job”, and no conspiracy theory ever admits a mistake.

  3. avatar
    JPotter August 16, 2013 at 3:38 am #

    The Magic M: But birthers are unable to do that because it would contradict their original narrative

    Of course it’s beyond them … they’re incompetent LOL

    Comeptent enough (in their own minds) to infallibly spot forgery, but not competent enough to produce one. 😉

  4. avatar
    Pastor Charmley August 16, 2013 at 9:13 am #

    They are caught between a rock and a hard place, unwilling to admit that they were wrong. You see, as I have often pointed out, a sophisticated forgery would be, to the eyes of the untrained, indistinguishable from the real thing. But the Birthers cannot say that, for that would mean they were dependent on experts, and their narrative is one of the brave ordinary man against the system (that being a popular American narrative). That leaves them with only one option, to claim it is a crude forgery which anyone can, with a little effort, spot as such, and it is only an unwillingness to consider the question that keeps the rest of us from seeing the truth.

    I am reminded of a friend who wished to maintain that the Hawaii certificate was a “crude forgery”, while in the same e-mail he promoted the crude forgeries that were supposed to be Kenyan certificates. Both of them.

  5. avatar
    GLaB August 16, 2013 at 5:35 pm #

    Zullo tried a few tentative steps along that path, but his upside-down 8 clearly visible to the naked eye probably convinced him that it was a dead-end. In that, he’s showed more sense than the run-of-the-mill birther.

  6. avatar
    Crustacean August 16, 2013 at 6:46 pm #

    “The birthers lose. The certificate’s legit.”
    ~Dr. Conspiracy

    Not even close. If this were a boxing match, the referee would’ve stopped it in the first round, by technical knockout, when the birthers were merely staggering around the ring incoherently. But now it has just become an ugly, bloody sideshow. After repeated blows to their heads, I’m concerned about the potential for brain damage to these poor folk. The signs of it are rampant here in their comments at OCT.

    Unfortunately, the only thing the birthers can hear is the theme from “Rocky” playing in their heads. And so they slog on, convinced that – any round now – they are going to administer the coup de grace to President Obama (not willing to admit that NBC already hit them with the decisive punch).

    Sorry birthers, it’s over. Find a new sport – preferably one that doesn’t involve soiling yourself in public.

  7. avatar
    DP August 16, 2013 at 7:23 pm #

    Pastor Charmley:
    They are caught between a rock and a hard place, unwilling to admit that they were wrong. You see, as I have often pointed out, a sophisticated forgery would be, to the eyes of the untrained, indistinguishable from the real thing. But the Birthers cannot say that, for that would mean they were dependent on experts, and their narrative is one of the brave ordinary man against the system (that being a popular American narrative). That leaves them with only one option, to claim it is a crude forgery which anyone can, with a little effort, spot as such, and it is only an unwillingness to consider the question that keeps the rest of us from seeing the truth.

    I am reminded of a friend who wished to maintain that the Hawaii certificate was a “crude forgery”, while in the same e-mail he promoted the crude forgeries that were supposed to be Kenyan certificates. Both of them.

    I think this is on to something.

    I don’t think they’ll be persuaded by the recent duplication efforts for a simple reason. Not only do they not really understand the technical issues–they don’t want to. The story they want to believe about themselves is that they’re salt of the earth patriots defending the nation. To even dabble in all this techno-stuff at the level we are is antithetical to their whole sense of being. It’s the kind of thing liberal geek Obots do.

    If they let themselves be drawn on to our turf, the next thing you know they’ll be Lost on some strange island where everyone else knows the thing they truly find offensive about Obama is his skin color relative to the position he has.

  8. avatar
    DP August 16, 2013 at 7:27 pm #

    Crustacean:
    “The birthers lose. The certificate’s legit.”
    ~Dr. Conspiracy

    Not even close.If this were a boxing match, the referee would’ve stopped it in the first round, by technical knockout, when the birthers were merely staggering around the ring incoherently.”

    If this was a boxing match, the birthers would have urinated on themselves, then slipped on the puddle and snapped their neck trying to get in the ring. After which a cohort of morons would start shrieking that the only thing that kept the birthers from winning was this corrupt ring-rope thing that wasn’t allowing anyone to see them in action.

  9. avatar
    jayHG August 16, 2013 at 11:00 pm #

    Hi everyone….don’t mean to “thread highjack”, but I live in Los Angeles and today, I saw something that I actually believed was folklore. I saw a real life birther!!! He was wearing a black t-shirt with the word “USURPER” in giant letters on the front along with a U. S. flag in black and white (as opposed to red/white/blue).

    I tried not to stare, but it was hard cause, as I said, I have never seen a live one and you tube videos could be staged (this is a conspiracy theory that I actually read somewhere). I had started to believe that birthers were these imaginary creatures who sit at a computer and work themselves into a tizzy because of the big secret of President Obama’s dad being from Kenya (snark).

    But there he was, today, in Los Angeles, talking on a cell phone. It was surreal…..

  10. avatar
    justlw August 17, 2013 at 12:06 am #

    jayHG: I saw a real life birther!!!

    Around 2009, in Menlo Park, CA (Silicon Valley, if you’re not familiar with the name), I saw a late model Mercedes (black, natch) with the license plate

    OBAMARX

    On first read, I thought it was a pro-ACA message (“OBAMA RX”)… .

    But that’s actually kind of impressive, isn’t it? Buying and wearing a t-shirt is one thing, but going to the time and expense of getting a vanity plate to tell the world that you’re an objectionable wingnut, right in the heart of Librul Central… that shows you’re putting some skin in the game!

  11. avatar
    misha marinsky August 17, 2013 at 12:34 am #

    jayHG: I live in Los Angeles and today, I saw something that I actually believed was folklore. I saw a real life birther!!!

    Venice Beach, I presume?

  12. avatar
    jayHG August 17, 2013 at 12:38 am #

    misha marinsky: Venice Beach, I presume?

    No…Century City!!! Of ALL places….

  13. avatar
    jayHG August 17, 2013 at 12:39 am #

    justlw: Around 2009, in Menlo Park, CA (Silicon Valley, if you’re not familiar with the name), I saw a late model Mercedes (black, natch) with the license plate

    On first read, I thought it was a pro-ACA message (“OBAMA RX”)… .

    But that’s actually kind of impressive, isn’t it?Buying and wearing a t-shirt is one thing, but going to the time and expense of getting a vanity plate to tell the world that you’re an objectionable wingnut, right in the heart of Librul Central… that shows you’re putting some skin in the game!

    Hilarious!!!!!

  14. avatar
    John Reilly August 17, 2013 at 2:08 am #

    A few years back in San Diego, I ran into a birther gathering signatures on a petition urging the military to frog march Pres. Obama into the stockade. I observed that conservatives like me did not believe in our military being turned into a police force.

  15. avatar
    JPotter August 17, 2013 at 8:07 am #

    John Reilly: I observed that conservatives like me did not believe in our military being turned into a police force.

    And yet “Oathkeepers” (pretend) to be itching for a chance to do jut that …. in violation of the “oath” they are supposedly keeping.

  16. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 17, 2013 at 10:01 am #

    John Reilly:
    A few years back in San Diego, I ran into a birther gathering signatures on a petition urging the military to frog march Pres. Obama into the stockade.I observed that conservatives like me did not believe in our military being turned into a police force.

    You mean his prospect of sedition didn’t sit will with people?
    Who woulda thunk it? 😉

    JPotter: And yet “Oathkeepers” (pretend) to be itching for a chance to do jut that …. in violation of the “oath” they are supposedly keeping.

    The only “oath” those people are intent on keeping is something along akin to “I, -name- do solemnly swear, to do everything in my power, to keep scary black people out of the WHITE House. So help me, Anglo-Saxon Jesus.” 😐

  17. avatar
    John Reilly August 17, 2013 at 10:22 am #

    It used to be that conservatives would cite to the Posse Comitatus Act as to why the federal government had no power in their community. You still see these in the elevation of sheriffs to “constitutional sheriff” even though sheriff is not mentioned in the Constitution any more than Indiana.

  18. avatar
    aarrgghh August 17, 2013 at 11:13 am #

    John Reilly: I observed that conservatives like me did not believe in our military being turned into a police force.

    JPotter: And yet “Oathkeepers” (pretend) to be itching for a chance to do jut that …. in violation of the “oath” they are supposedly keeping.

    nobody wants the spanish inquisition!

    unless you’re a member.

  19. avatar
    Northland10 August 17, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

    aarrgghh:
    nobody wants the spanish inquisition!

    unless you’re a member.

    I didn’t expect that.

  20. avatar
    Northland10 August 17, 2013 at 12:49 pm #

    John Reilly: It used to be that conservatives would cite to the Posse Comitatus Act as to why the federal government had no power in their community.

    Too many faux-conservatives (can I call them faux-cons?) who are more interested in power and control. They drop any actual conservative value whenever it becomes inconvenient.

    Keep up the wonderful comments John (John Reilly that is).

  21. avatar
    Publius August 17, 2013 at 3:52 pm #

    The Magic M…birthers have never proven a normal forgery workflow using Photoshop (or whatever) would result in the “anomalies” found in the PDF.

    There’s no way that even approaches being remotely plausible to get the stuff seen in the PDF manually.

    It’s the kind of thing that’s perhaps possible in theory, but impossible in any practical terms whatsoever.

    Like this: You find an incoherent man lying on the beach in Atlantic City, New Jersey. He doesn’t speak English. You discover that the incoherent man speaks Portuguese. He has no identification, and it’s clear he’s been in the water.

    If you’re a member of the Clown Cars Posse, you quite naturally conclude that he swam there from Brazil. Moreover, you conclude that’s the ONLY possibility.

    So then you call a press conference, as high profile as you can get it. And you further state publicly and adamantly that anyone who says he must have flown into the country, or previously taken an overland route through Mexico and later decided to go for a swim in Atlantic City is a liar, or has no idea what they’re talking about.

    So then you write a book on people swimming from Brazil to the United States, and go and lobby members of Congress to try and get a law passed to deal with people swimming from Brazil to Atlantic City. And you take up donations so that people can support your efforts to combat the illegal immigration “problem” of people swimming from Brazil to the USA.

    That’s what it is to be Mike Zullo. Head of the Clown Cars Posse.

  22. avatar
    Publius August 17, 2013 at 4:00 pm #

    Oh. And when someone produces an airline ticket in the man’s name from Rio to New York City, you go on radio shows and claim the ticket was forged by people who have a vested interest in protecting illegal swimmigrants from Brazil.

    And you dub all of this the “Illegal Swimmigrant Scandal of 2013,” and publish dozens of articles about it in World Net Daily. And at Swimmigrant.com.

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 17, 2013 at 4:16 pm #

    Nobody …

    Northland10: I didn’t expect that.

  24. avatar
    Majority Will August 17, 2013 at 4:45 pm #

    Publius: There’s no way that even approaches being remotely plausible to get the stuff seen in the PDF manually.

    It’s the kind of thing that’s perhaps possible in theory, but impossible in any practical terms whatsoever.

    Like this: You find an incoherent man lying on the beach in Atlantic City, New Jersey. He doesn’t speak English. You discover that the incoherent man speaks Portuguese. He has no identification, and it’s clear he’s been in the water.

    If you’re a member of the Clown Cars Posse, you quite naturally conclude that he swam there from Brazil. Moreover, you conclude that’s the ONLY possibility.

    So then you call a press conference, as high profile as you can get it. And you further state publicly and adamantly that anyone who says he must have flown into the country, or previously taken an overland route through Mexico and later decided to go for a swim in Atlantic City is a liar, or has no idea what they’re talking about.

    So then you write a book on people swimming from Brazil to the United States, and go and lobby members of Congress to try and get a law passed to deal with people swimming from Brazil to Atlantic City.And you take up donations so that people can support your efforts to combat the illegal immigration “problem” of people swimming from Brazil to the USA.

    That’s what it is to be Mike Zullo. Head of the Clown Cars Posse.

    Well done.

  25. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG August 17, 2013 at 5:04 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Nobody …

    Bring me…the comfy CHAIR!

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy August 17, 2013 at 8:48 pm #

    Oh no! not….

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Bring me…the comfy CHAIR!

  27. avatar
    JPotter August 17, 2013 at 9:58 pm #

    So then …. the Spanish Inquisition is either lying … or …. has no members?

    Well, I guess, “Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, except the Spanish Inquisition” doesn’t have quite the same zing.

    Or the qualifier is meant to be assumed.

    Or … the Inquisitor(s?) consider himself to be a nobody … !

  28. avatar
    helen August 19, 2013 at 6:50 pm #

    there is a significant item that seem to elude people.

    And that is that the original birth certificate can not be prevented from being fraudulently completed and filed, that original birth certificate can contain errors, and that original birth certificates have been allowed to be filed with the permission of the State to falsely indicate that a child was born in that localitiy

    When there are numerous opportunities to commit fraud, fraud will be committed by private individuals, companies and governmental employees and , of course, governments.

    And that basic fact is ignored to a great deal in these posting.

  29. avatar
    Publius August 19, 2013 at 6:56 pm #

    None of which there is the slightest indication of with Obama’s birth certificate.

    We have a birth certificate duly signed by a doctor who is known to have delivered babies in Honolulu during the time period Obama was born. It is dated with the appropriate dates. It has a mother’s signature which matches known signatures of Stanley Ann Dunham Obama.

    Nor is there any reason why any birth certificate would have been fraudulently filed in this case, since there’s no even remotely plausible scenario by which Obama was born anywhere other than Honolulu.

  30. avatar
    Hektor August 19, 2013 at 7:30 pm #

    helen:

    When there are numerous opportunities to commit fraud, fraud will be committed by private individuals, companies and governmental employees and , of course, governments.

    And that basic fact is ignored to a great deal in these posting.

    It has been repeatedly pointed out to you that the mere existence of fraud or other government malfeasance is not evidence that fraud has occurred in the specific case of President Obama’s birth certificate. Since Hawaii vouches for the the document you feel is suspect, what evidence do you have that they are lying?

  31. avatar
    Majority Will August 19, 2013 at 7:35 pm #

    Hektor: It has been repeatedly pointed out to you that the mere existence of fraud or other government malfeasance is not evidence that fraud has occurred in the specific case of President Obama’s birth certificate. Since Hawaii vouches for the the document you feel is suspect, what evidence do you have that they are lying?

    A cherished and well worn hand puppet smeared with lipstick and Vaseline keeps pleading with trolljack to share these brilliant insights with his only friends.

  32. avatar
    justlw August 19, 2013 at 7:48 pm #

    helen:
    there is a significant item that seem to elude people.

    And that is that the original birth certificate can not be prevented from being fraudulently completed and filed, that original birth certificate can contain errors, and that originalbirth certificateshave been allowed to be filed with the permission of the State to falselyindicate that a child was born in that localitiy

    When there are numerous opportunities to commit fraud, fraud will be committed by private individuals, companies and governmental employees and , of course, governments.

    And that basic fact is ignored to a great deal in these posting.

    Basic fact: Barack Obama claims to be born in the city his parents were living in at the time, Honolulu.

    Basic fact: There is nothing of any consequence that contradicts this rather simple and obvious claim.

    Basic fact: Officials of the State of Hawaii confirm that their records from 1961 corroborate this simple and obvious claim. They have confirmed this multiple times over.

    Basic fact: Other contemporaneous official records obtained via FOIA corroborate this simple and obvious claim.

    Basic fact: Large amounts of circumstantial evidence also corroborate this simple and obvious claim.

    Basic fact: Fairy tales told by birthers to reject this simple and obvious claim require deception, shading, parsing, quote mining, and the most contorted reasoning. Which is to say “lying.” Which they have been caught out at, time and time again.

    I conclude from these basic facts that the information given on the birth certificate–as reflected, among other places, in the White House PDF–is accurate, and that the man who is currently serving as president was qualified to run, as evidenced by him winning election (twice) and being certified by Congress (twice). Despite the copious amounts of dust kicked up by a Moldavan dentist, a game show host, a used car salesman, a cross-posting (OK, that doesn’t really mean what I want it to mean) Internet troll, and a cast of literally tens of others who want to believe that the nation is just waiting for the right moment to rise up behind them, despite their consistently being unable to outdraw the line at the nearest corner hotdog cart whenever they try to march on Washington.

  33. avatar
    JoZeppy August 19, 2013 at 8:04 pm #

    helen:
    there is a significant item that seem to elude people.

    And that is that the original birth certificate can not be prevented from being fraudulently completed and filed, that original birth certificate can contain errors, and that originalbirth certificateshave been allowed to be filed with the permission of the State to falselyindicate that a child was born in that localitiy

    When there are numerous opportunities to commit fraud, fraud will be committed by private individuals, companies and governmental employees and , of course, governments.

    And that basic fact is ignored to a great deal in these posting.

    So because the mere possibility of fraud exists on some theoretical level, no documents of any kind can be relied on? That’s a rather absurd position to take. So since no document of any kind can be relied on, I guess that puts President Obama in the exact same position as anyone else who has ever held any office or will run for any office in the future, and makes all your arguing about the validity of his documentation moot, because neither you nor anyone else can prove anything since the mere possiblity of fraud at some level anywhere renders the every public record meanless.

    Well, that makes a whole lot of sense. Why didn’t I see this before….and why do we waste so much money on record keeping if it all is meaningless?

  34. avatar
    justlw August 19, 2013 at 9:18 pm #

    JoZeppy: Well, that makes a whole lot of sense. Why didn’t I see this before….and why do we waste so much money on record keeping if it all is meaningless?

    I’m feeling a mass ontological crisis coming on. Helennnnn, what have you done to humanity?! We’re melllltingggggggg….

  35. avatar
    Monkey Boy August 20, 2013 at 12:09 am #

    helen:
    there is a significant item that seem to elude people.

    And that is that the original birth certificate can not be prevented from being fraudulently completed and filed, that original birth certificate can contain errors, and that originalbirth certificateshave been allowed to be filed with the permission of the State to falselyindicate that a child was born in that localitiy

    When there are numerous opportunities to commit fraud, fraud will be committed by private individuals, companies and governmental employees and , of course, governments.

    And that basic fact is ignored to a great deal in these posting.

    It has been proven that are religious charlatans; Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggart and the crud ball that to a “rent boy” on a cruise while railing against homosexuality.

    Therefore, Carl Gallups is a hypocrite and a grifting liar.

    See how this works?

  36. avatar
    John Reilly August 20, 2013 at 12:41 am #

    helen:
    there is a significant item that seem to elude people.

    And that is that the original birth certificate can not be prevented from being fraudulently completed and filed, that original birth certificate can contain errors, and that originalbirth certificateshave been allowed to be filed with the permission of the State to falselyindicate that a child was born in that localitiy

    When there are numerous opportunities to commit fraud, fraud will be committed by private individuals, companies and governmental employees and , of course, governments.

    And that basic fact is ignored to a great deal in these posting.

    Ah, yes, the troll Helen is back. Back without answering the question how she determined that John McCain and Sarah Palin, for whom she voted, are natural born citizens. How about it Helen? Up to actually answering questions?

  37. avatar
    Lani August 20, 2013 at 3:13 am #

    “Helen” is back without a new posting id?

  38. avatar
    The Magic M August 20, 2013 at 4:23 am #

    helen: When there are numerous opportunities to commit fraud, fraud will be committed by private individuals, companies and governmental employees and , of course, governments.

    How do you know you’re not a simulated character in a huge NSA computer running a simulation to check if people will buy into the birth certificate once it is released (it’s actually late 2010, you know, not 2013 as the simulation will have you believe)? And if you are, does it matter if the simulated President of the simulated United States was born in simulated Hawaii or simulated Kenya?

    Maybe you are one of a billion simulated Helens in a billion simulated copies of Earth. Which in fact would make it astronomically improbable you are the one real Helen in the real world, 1:1,000,000,000 at least.

    Because you see, since we can never know anything for certain, how can you know this is *not* the case?

  39. avatar
    Rickey August 20, 2013 at 1:11 pm #

    helen:
    there is a significant item that seem to elude people.

    And that is that the original birth certificate can not be prevented from being fraudulently completed and filed, that original birth certificate can contain errors, and that original birth certificates have been allowed to be filed with the permission of the State to falsely indicate that a child was born in that localitiy

    When there are numerous opportunities to commit fraud, fraud will be committed by private individuals, companies and governmental employees and , of course, governments.

    And that basic fact is ignored to a great deal in these posting.

    Dr. Sinclair’s family has confirmed that it is his signature on Obama’s LFBC. Are you accusing Dr. Sinclair of being complicit in filing a fraudulent birth certificate? For what purpose? And what would he have gotten out of it? In other words, what motive would he have had?