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Conclusive proof: Birth Certificate OK

As Texas Representative Leo Berman put it, “The YouTube’s are infallible.”

While there have been many solid debunking articles targeting birther claims that Obama’s birth certificate is a computer-generated forgery, there hasn’t been any video covering the most recent findings.

That’s no longer the case. Blogger and Internet radio personality Reality Check has made an excellent video demonstrating his evidence, which shows to devastating effect that what the birthers have been saying is nonsense.

I can hardly wait for Part 2.

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53 Responses to Conclusive proof: Birth Certificate OK

  1. avatar
    Thinker December 11, 2013 at 10:40 am #

    To quote Homer Simpson, who is far smarter than the world’s smartest birfer:

    “Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that’s remotely true. Facts schmacts.”

  2. avatar
    john December 11, 2013 at 10:40 am #

    Doesn’t explain the discrepancy of the Birth Certificate seal. (One of Dough Voygt’s more compelling claims of forgery.) The Seal of Obama’s birth certificate is very very poor in quality and almost nonexistent. (In the Savanna Guthrie pics) Other birth certificate of a similiar nature show the seal to be far more profound and visible. Either, Guthrie had a realy bad camera or as Doug has stated, the seal is not real and some type of watermark (We only have Guthrie’s word that felt a raised seal.)

  3. avatar
    john December 11, 2013 at 10:53 am #

    Here is an excellent comparson between the 2 birth certificates:

    The Savanna Guthrie Pic – http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9085/x25c119092.jpg

    Notice lighting is pretty good and resolution is fairly good. The seal is just barley visible despite the BC only being a few days old. The edges of seal barely visible but the interior of the seal is nearly nonexistent. The seal looks very “sick”.

    http://passportsusa.com/wp-content/gallery/passportusa/edith_front.jpg – Edith Coates BC’s. This BC is 20 years old. Notice how profound and visible the seal. You can clearly see the seal is embossed and part of the paper.

  4. avatar
    john December 11, 2013 at 11:07 am #

    It appears that RC did not use “real” date and signature stamps and they essentially were part of the paper. I know that the CCP used a “real” date stamp to make sure that date stamp was seperate independent element and not part of the paper. As for the signature, stamp the neither the CCP or RC had Alvin Onaka’s stamp handy. But in any event, RC’s Onaka signature stamp is only partially lifted where the Obama’s BC, the entire stamp is lifted.

  5. avatar
    Arthur December 11, 2013 at 1:34 pm #

    While R.C.’s video may not change the minds of many birthers, I found it very informative. It’s quite helpful to see a demonstration of what has been only described in print.

  6. avatar
    Slartibartfast December 11, 2013 at 1:47 pm #

    The truth finally comes out! At the beginning of the video RC said:

    the President’s long form birth certificate is a forgery made by the birthers

    In other words, this whole thing has been a birther false flag operation!

    Those sneaky devils!

  7. avatar
    justlw December 11, 2013 at 2:01 pm #

    I missed the Leo Berman sideshow the first time around. I love how right when he says,

    “We don’t even know where Obama went to school. All we have is his word.”

    …the video pans lovingly over Obama’s HLS class picture. Kudos to the Texas Tribune.

  8. avatar
    Reality Check December 11, 2013 at 2:02 pm #

    I could have worded that better. I didn’t feel like doing the whole thing again.

    The next part will be shorter and I plan to concentrate on one or two claims made by the CCP.

    Slartibartfast:
    The truth finally comes out!At the beginning of the video RC said:

    the President’s long form birth certificate is a forgery made by the birthers

    In other words, this whole thing has been a birther false flag operation!

    Those sneaky devils!

  9. avatar
    nbc December 11, 2013 at 2:43 pm #

    Arthur: While R.C.’s video may not change the minds of many birthers, I found it very informative. It’s quite helpful to see a demonstration of what has been only described in print.

    The visual aspect is not to be underestimated especially for low information readers such are often found amongst birthers.

  10. avatar
    justlw December 11, 2013 at 3:10 pm #

    john:
    (We only have Guthrie’s word that felt a raised seal.)

    Well that and, you know, the freaking state of Hawaii.

    Why do you hate the Constitution, John?

  11. avatar
    sactosintolerant December 11, 2013 at 3:18 pm #

    justlw: Well that and, you know, the freaking state of Hawaii.

    Why do you hate the Constitution, John?

    The Constitution isn’t valid anymore… Its ink is now part of the paper it was written on.

  12. avatar
    Kiwiwriter December 11, 2013 at 3:52 pm #

    john:
    It appears that RC did not use“real” date and signature stamps and they essentially were part of the paper. I know that the CCP used a “real” date stamp to make sure that date stamp was seperate independent element and not part of the paper.As for the signature, stamp the neither the CCP or RC had Alvin Onaka’s stamp handy.But in any event, RC’s Onaka signature stamp is only partially lifted where the Obama’s BC, the entire stamp is lifted.

    John, the only thing I want to know from you is this:
    john October 16, 2013 at 2:08 pm #
    I sent the following letter to the Arlington National Cemetery Administration:
    Dear Administration,
    When the government reopens, I am planning on taking a trip to Washington DC. I plan to visit Arlington National Cemetery. I am an avid treasure hunter and I am asking permission if I can metal detect on the grounds of Arlington National Cemetery. Millions of people visit the cemetery and I want to metal detect around some of the green and the graves. I would promise to fill any holes I made and the administration can even keep an eye on me to be sure I fill in the holes I make at some the graves. I know this is an unusual request by I understand the National Park Service with approval of the President placed barricades in front of the memorials including the WWII Memorial denying Vets access to them. It seems this was OK with National Park Service and President so I don’t see why there be would a problem to allow me to metal detect around the green and the graves of Arlington National Cemetery. Thank you for your time in this matter and I look forward to quick response.

    1. What was the response from Arlington?
    2. How did the dig work out?
    3. What was the point of that little exercise?

  13. avatar
    nbc December 11, 2013 at 3:55 pm #

    John: But in any event, RC’s Onaka signature stamp is only partially lifted where the Obama’s BC, the entire stamp is lifted.

    Well, you already explained that one yourself, RC did not use separate ink stamps which would very likely have lifted the whole signature.

    Thank you John…

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2013/12/conclusive-proof-birth-certificate-ok/#comment-305811

  14. avatar
    Kiwiwriter December 11, 2013 at 4:17 pm #

    nbc: Well, you already explained that one yourself, RC did not use separate ink stamps which would very likely have lifted the whole signature.

    Thank you John…

    I think you meant to quote from John, not me.

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 11, 2013 at 4:46 pm #

    Yes. And even though RC didn’t use a separate date stamp and the date was just printed with the rest of the document, the Xerox scanner identified it and separated it out anyway, just as with Obama’s certificate!

    Magnifico!

    john: It appears that RC did not use “real” date and signature stamps and they essentially were part of the paper. I know that the CCP used a “real” date stamp to make sure that date stamp was seperate independent element and not part of the paper.

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 11, 2013 at 4:48 pm #

    Repaired.

    Kiwiwriter: I think you meant to quote from John, not me.

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 11, 2013 at 4:49 pm #

    Which is not all that remarkable since RC didn’t have Obama’s actual certificate to start with.

    john: As for the signature, stamp the neither the CCP or RC had Alvin Onaka’s stamp handy. But in any event, RC’s Onaka signature stamp is only partially lifted where the Obama’s BC, the entire stamp is lifted.

  18. avatar
    Kiwiwriter December 11, 2013 at 5:07 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Which is not all that remarkable since RC didn’t have Obama’s actual certificate to start with.

    No worries…I’m crazy, but not that crazy.

    Thanks much.

  19. avatar
    RanTalbott December 11, 2013 at 5:56 pm #

    john: Notice lighting is pretty good and resolution is fairly good

    No, it’s not: it’s awful. The Guthrie photo was published on the web at 600×450 pixels. Which, unless NBC is issuing its reporters cellphones that it buys third-hand at Goodwill, means it was scaled down by a factor of at least 5 or 10. The net result being an image of about Apple Imagewriter I resolution.

    Unless I’m mistaken, that web image was then scaled back up to 1200×900, using a process that did some interpolating instead of blindly replicating pixels.

    So, you chose to do “forensic analysis” of an image that’s been through at least 2 or 3 lossy transforms, and, even to the naked eye, is a poor representation of the original document.

    The question now is “Was that choice evil? Or merely stupid?”.

  20. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 11, 2013 at 6:09 pm #

    john: (We only have Guthrie’s word that felt a raised seal.)

    Why would she lie, john?

  21. avatar
    nbc December 11, 2013 at 6:20 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Why would she lie, john?

    Because in John’s world everyone who disproves his fantasies must be lying, and a traitor. John has no ability to receive facts that contradict him.

    I believe the term is confirmation bias.

  22. avatar
    BatGuano December 11, 2013 at 6:35 pm #

    nbc:
    I believe the term is confirmation bias.

    cognitive dissonance

  23. avatar
    Slartibartfast December 11, 2013 at 7:00 pm #

    RC, nbc, and Doc,

    I have a suggestion as to how to deal with birthers raising issues like the one John is bringing up about the stamp (where he raises a valid issue which can be addressed with better empirical evidence): discuss your methodology and get the birthers to agree it is correct (and what various results will tell you about the LFBC’s validity) before you do the experiment. In other words, get the birthers to agree on the location of the goalposts before you try to kick the field goal.

    This does two things—it gets the birthers on the record (or shows them up as disingenuous cowards) as to what experimental results will mean and it provides a platform to discuss why particular results would support or refute birther claims before the birthers know what the results will be.

    At the very least, watching the birthers try to deal with this tactic should be amusing, but we all know that birthers have much more to fear from openness and honesty than obots do.

    Just my $0.02.

  24. avatar
    Craig December 11, 2013 at 7:00 pm #

    Willfully stupid.

  25. avatar
    Reality Check December 11, 2013 at 7:01 pm #

    John practices cargo cult science just as Orly practices cargo cult law.

    john:
    It appears that RC did not use“real” date and signature stamps and they essentially were part of the paper. I know that the CCP used a “real” date stamp to make sure that date stamp was seperate independent element and not part of the paper.As for the signature, stamp the neither the CCP or RC had Alvin Onaka’s stamp handy.But in any event, RC’s Onaka signature stamp is only partially lifted where the Obama’s BC, the entire stamp is lifted.

  26. avatar
    nbc December 11, 2013 at 7:18 pm #

    Slartibartfast: In other words, get the birthers to agree on the location of the goalposts before you try to kick the field goal.

    At least I have done so with Xerox… The goalpost was set that no simple process / one button process could create the observed ‘artifacts’.

    They still moved them, as they have no shame…

  27. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 11, 2013 at 7:26 pm #

    Craig:
    Willfully stupid.

    Simpler explanation: idiocy.

  28. avatar
    Slartibartfast December 11, 2013 at 7:35 pm #

    I think that they are willfully ignorant, but honestly stupid.

    Craig:
    Willfully stupid.

  29. avatar
    RanTalbott December 11, 2013 at 7:37 pm #

    nbc: I believe the term is confirmation bias

    No, “confirmation bias” is where you’re reluctant to accept conflicting evidence, and tend to discount it.

    Refusing to even look at it is “#$*%ing nuts”.

  30. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 11, 2013 at 9:49 pm #

    And besides not agreeing with your pet theory, what’s wrong with Guthrie’s word? Generally if a journalist for a major news organization says they saw something, that carries a lot of weight.

    The distorted weighting of evidence is why birthers have their peculiar delusion.

    john: (We only have Guthrie’s word that felt a raised seal

  31. avatar
    Joey December 11, 2013 at 10:38 pm #

    The Hawaii Registrar’s office can print up brand spanking new hard copies of the Obama Certificate of Live Birth with clearly visible Seals and fresh certification stamps and signatures any time they want to.
    Any judge or congressional committee that might need a copy can order one directly from the state Registrar, if they meet the criteria for having “a direct and tangible interest.”

    338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.
    (b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:
    (1) The registrant;

    (2) The spouse of the registrant;

    (3) A parent of the registrant;

    (4) A descendant of the registrant;

    (5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;

    (6) A legal guardian of the registrant;

    (7) A person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;

    (8) A personal representative of the registrant’s estate;

    (9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;

  32. avatar
    CarlOrcas December 11, 2013 at 10:51 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The distorted weighting of evidence is why birthers have their peculiar delusion.

    Or they just make something up. In the case of Guthrie when pressed for a reason she would lie they decided that her move to The Today Show was the obvious explanation: It was her reward for lying about the seal. Crazy time!

  33. avatar
    justlw December 12, 2013 at 2:09 am #

    CarlOrcas: In the case of Guthrie when pressed for a reason she would lie they decided that her move to The Today Show was the obvious explanation: It was her reward for lying about the seal.

    I don’t know why they need to make such desperate reaches; the truth is much simpler, and much, much more devastating.

    1. “Guthrie”. C’mon, this is too easy. Could you pick a more socialist hippie musician name?

    2. “Savannah”. What is a savannah? It’s a prairie. What’s another name for prairie? Steppe. And what country has steppes? Nice try… Comrade!

    3. She wasn’t born in America. She’s from Australia, which is not only a country, it’s a continent! John can tell you how significant this is in terms of race! Or something!

    So: Russian folksinger whose allegiance is to another continent. Need I say more! Should I have said this much! Probably not, but too late! Stop me before I exclaim again!

  34. avatar
    Lupin December 12, 2013 at 3:43 am #

    Slartibartfast:
    I think that they are willfully ignorant, but honestly stupid.

    john could be a troll, of course, which is the simplest explanation.

    Otherwise, at this degree of obtuseness, it’s hard to not attribute his steadfast refusal to entertain that Obama might be legitimate to some deep-seated prejudice such as racism.

  35. avatar
    The Magic M December 12, 2013 at 6:46 am #

    justlw: She’s from Australia, which is not only a country, it’s a continent!

    It’s also full of criminals (in fact, Natural Born Criminals according to Vattel), just like Hawaii is full of strange foreign-looking foreigners who can’t possibly be even remotely Murican. Also, Hawaii is half-way between NYC and Sydney. Coincidence? Methinks not!

  36. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 12, 2013 at 9:49 am #

    Slartibartfast: This does two things—it gets the birthers on the record (or shows them up as disingenuous cowards) as to what experimental results will mean and it provides a platform to discuss why particular results would support or refute birther claims before the birthers know what the results will be.
    At the very least, watching the birthers try to deal with this tactic should be amusing, but we all know that birthers have much more to fear from openness and honesty than obots do.
    Just my $0.02.

    It doesn’t work. Birthers never follow through on their promises. Like when they claimed if only he would provide a long form this would be all over. Recently one of Volin’s guests the former private investigator and the guy thinking he’s running for governor of michigan was asked a simple question given a premise to which he agreed only to flip flop on it.

    He was asked in his experience as a PI if he saw an ID like say a Driver’s License and he thought it was fake what steps he would take to ensure his notion was correct? Would he contact the issuing authority say the DMV? Would he get a verification from them that they issued it or that it was legit? Would he get something on paper from them ensuring the accuracy? He answered yes to each of these. Then it was pointed out that Hawaii has done all of this that they verified the document that the SoS of AZ asked for verifications and received them. He then backed down from his original answer claiming they still needed an international team to look at the BC. It was pointed out the only authority under the constitution is the issuing authority the DOH who has confirmed the document.

  37. avatar
    justlw December 12, 2013 at 10:18 am #

    The Magic M:

    She’s from Australia, which is not only a country, it’s a continent!

    It’s also full of criminals

    After getting off the plane in Sydney, the man waits to go through customs.

    “Do you have anything to declare?” asks the Australian customs officer.

    “No” replies the British man.

    “Do you have a criminal record?”

    “I’m sorry, I didn’t know that was still a requirement.”

  38. avatar
    Jim December 12, 2013 at 10:34 am #

    john:”It appears that RC did not use“real” date and signature stamps and they essentially were part of the paper. I know that the CCP used a “real” date stamp to make sure that date stamp was seperate independent element and not part of the paper.As for the signature, stamp the neither the CCP or RC had Alvin Onaka’s stamp handy.But in any event, RC’s Onaka signature stamp is only partially lifted where the Obama’s BC, the entire stamp is lifted.”

    John, I realize the important thing to you is not the facts or the evidence but that you don’t wish the President in office. Here’s your main problem, you’ve got ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that the President was born anywhere but Hawaii. Fake investigators, fake experts, fake lawyers and fake indignation will not get you anywhere. In over 5 years not one single piece of evidence showing the President was born anywhere but Hawaii has appeared. Instead of wasting your time attempting to prop up a silly investigation that resembles a 3 stooges skit, you might want to head on over to Kenya and see what you can find out. Make sure to drop Doc a postcard in the mail! :D

  39. avatar
    Fuzz T. Was December 12, 2013 at 8:52 pm #

    Has anyone asked the White House if they even own a Xerox 7655 Workcenter copier. If they do your theory has merit. If they don’t your theory lacks merit.

  40. avatar
    Bovril December 12, 2013 at 9:48 pm #

    Dear Fuzzy Ass

    Knock yourself out, you don’t believe it, you go and ask.

    I’ll give you a hint though, a wicked ebil Obot already answered the question when they went to the GAO and looked for contracts from Xerox for the Administration.

    Next……….

  41. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 12, 2013 at 10:08 pm #

    Yes, and Yes.

    Fuzz T. Was: Has anyone asked the White House if they even own a Xerox 7655 Workcenter copier. If they do your theory has merit. If they don’t your theory lacks merit.

  42. avatar
    nbc December 13, 2013 at 1:41 am #

    Fuzz T. Was: Has anyone asked the White House if they even own a Xerox 7655 Workcenter copier. If they do your theory has merit. If they don’t your theory lacks merit.

    Yes, the Vice President’s tax returns were scanned on a 7655.

    So the theory has merit…

  43. avatar
    The Magic M December 13, 2013 at 5:41 am #

    Fuzz T. Was: Has anyone asked the White House if they even own a Xerox 7655 Workcenter copier.

    What for? So that you could claim they are lying? But if they only showed you the receipt for a WorkCentre 7655, this would all go away, right? Somebody call the goalpost movers’ union, you’re letting their guys work overtime!

  44. avatar
    Suranis December 13, 2013 at 8:38 am #

    I demand to see a certified PDF scan of the vault copy of the bill of sale of the Xerox to the Whitehorse.

    (Yes I know its whitehouse but I typed whitehorse and it was too funny to erase)

  45. avatar
    The Magic M December 13, 2013 at 10:20 am #

    Suranis: I demand to see a certified PDF scan of the vault copy of the bill of sale of the Xerox to the Whitehorse.

    Not enough. That the WH once bought a Xerox (which sounds kinda un-Murican to me BTW) doesn’t prove they still owned it (or used it) when the LFBC PDF was forgified creatorated. We need at least a certified video feed of the event and three witnesses who can trace back their family tree to George Washington *and* Abraham Lincoln.
    Inquiring minds also want to know if it was a Natural Built Copier and what Vattel wrote about dual head copiers (which can’t be real copiers of course so they are alien machines).

    Birthers are still trying to lay the burden of proof on us how the WH PDF was created. But of course it’s impossible to disprove forgery to them.
    They “forget” that all they had was the CCP claiming “this and that proves forgery” and now they’ve been shown it doesn’t. The burden is back on the CCP; we don’t have to prove to birthers a Xerox machine was actually used and was using certain settings, and it’s not that if we can’t, it means the “forgery” claim is still good.

    People like “Fuzz T. Was” need to understand that.

  46. avatar
    Rickey December 13, 2013 at 12:18 pm #

    justlw: Well that and, you know, the freaking state of Hawaii.

    Why do you hate the Constitution, John?

    John likely doesn’t believe that Hawaii is a real state. Too many brown people living there.

  47. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 13, 2013 at 12:22 pm #

    Fuzz T. Was: Has anyone asked the White House if they even own a Xerox 7655 Workcenter copier. If they do your theory has merit. If they don’t your theory lacks merit.

    The white house has contracts with Xerox. The way we got the Xerox workcenter as a starting point was based on his tax returns being scanned within one.

  48. avatar
    Daniel December 13, 2013 at 12:33 pm #

    Fuzz T. Was:
    Has anyone asked the White House if they even own a Xerox 7655 Workcenter copier.If they do your theory has merit.If they don’t your theory lacks merit.

    No it doesn’t. The claim by the Zullo foundation for ODS was that NO SCANNER ANYWHERE could have produced the PDF.

    NBC proved that at least one could. If any scanner in common use could have produced the PDF, than the CCCP claim is proven false.

    Your birther premise fails

  49. avatar
    gorefan December 13, 2013 at 12:41 pm #

    Fuzz T. Was:
    Has anyone asked the White House if they even own a Xerox 7655 Workcenter copier.If they do your theory has merit.If they don’t your theory lacks merit.

    Both the President’s and Vice-President’s tax returns were posted as PDFs on the White House website. Document properties of the PDFs show that they were created on a Xerox WorkCentre 7655. The taxes were posted in April, 2011 about two weeks before the LFBC.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/POTUS_taxes.pdf

  50. avatar
    JPotter December 13, 2013 at 1:15 pm #

    Fuzz T. Was: own

    Own? No. Such equipment is almost always leased. It would be provided per gov’t contract. I believe a commenter here produced a link to a contract from the Exec. branch.

    It could also be that the President’s personal papers, such as the BC and tax returns, are handled by his personal attorneys … the same firm that handled the request and retrieval of the LFBC from Hawaii.

  51. avatar
    Keith December 13, 2013 at 9:16 pm #

    Suranis:
    I demand to see a certified PDF scan of the vault copy of the bill of sale of the Xerox to the Whitehorse.

    (Yes I know its whitehouse but I typed whitehorse and it was too funny to erase)

    Extremely unlikely that the White House ‘owns’ a Xerox 7655 or any other.

    Any office equipment they use is almost certainly leased.

    Edit: JPotter beat me to it. Pays to read to the end before jumping in at the deep end.

  52. avatar
    roxy7655 December 13, 2013 at 9:24 pm #

    May be time for me to swear out an affadavit.

    Was it naughty of me to copy the President’s birth certificate with some of my compression settings turned up because I knew the easily-spotted anomalies would drive the Birthers into a slavering frenzy?

    Bad roxy. Naughty, bad roxy. Now you are all in peril!

  53. avatar
    Northland10 December 17, 2013 at 9:18 am #

    JPotter: Own? No. Such equipment is almost always leased. It would be provided per gov’t contract. I believe a commenter here produced a link to a contract from the Exec. branch.

    Yes, the Executive Office of the President has multiple contracts with Xerox to provide office machines and maintenance. I would assume they are leased. I am on an iPad and I do not have time to dig up the links I posted here and at RC’s. Contract information is available online from whatever agency deals with procurement, possibly as part of the GSA, I think.

    Then again, the tax forms are the simpler proof if Fuzz actually cared about facts.