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Zullo v. Vogt

Cheese Food Package photoI can’t stand to listen to the stuff, except in small bits, so I’m relying on Birther Report for the story.

Apparently Mike Zullo appeared on the Carl Gallups Freedom Friday show today and announced proof: “IronClad And Can Never Be Refuted.” Well, that’s refreshing, because I am getting pretty tired of their usual stuff that comes clad in a wrapper labeled “imitation pasteurized process cheese food.”

Birthers don’t play well with others

Some factionalism appears among the birthers, according to BR:

Zullo also denounced Doug Vogt’s assertions regarding the purported Obama birth certificate forger

Vogt’s identification of the “forger” in sealed court papers, and unsealed lips on talk radio abetted by unredacted web posts from Orly Taitz, is of course pure nonsense (not to be confused with imitation process nonsense).

The conflict gets more serious when Vogt and Zullo contradict each the other in affidavits filed in court. Here’s Vogt first in his Seattle affidavit:

When a birth certificate comes in from a hospital or clinic, the registrar much check that there are no cross outs, all the fields have been filled out, the mother and doctor have both signed and dated the form using black indelible ink. The registrar then stamps the certificate with a date stamp and then uses a Bates numbering machine to print the unique certificate number on the upper right hand comer of the form. Finally the registrar signs the form.

We observe that Hawaiian birth certificates are signed all through the month, usually just a few days after birth, so by implication (according to Vogt) certificates are stamped all through the month. Now contrast what Vogt avers to Zullo’s version that appears in his own affidavit filed in the case of McInnish v. Chapman now before the Alabama Supreme Court:

The serial number shown on the image of the certificate, which purports on its face to have been imposed on the form with an automated sequential numbering stamp, is 61-10641. Investigators learned at that time, batches of birth certificates were collected monthly, ordered by date and time of birth, and then sequentially number-stamped in a special room by a single clerk trained for the purpose, to minimize numbering errors.

So which is it: numbering daily in order of registration, or numbering in birth order sequence in batches at the end of the month? Vogt appeals to his reading of Hawaiian law and federal regulations. Zullo claims an investigation. Which is right? Neither of them is right. The known certificates make it clear that the main sorting of the monthly batch is alphabetic (and possibly a high-level sort on birth facility before). The latest known August 1961 certificate has the lowest certificate number (and the child’s last name begins with “A”). In order to try to make Obama’s certificate appear out of order both Vogt and Zullo make up inconsistent stories, neither of which fits the facts.

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20 Responses to Zullo v. Vogt

  1. avatar
    Thinker December 14, 2013 at 1:23 am #

    The “can never be refuted” part is true and will continue to be true as long as they keep all their findings private. I suspect that, as soon as they become public–if that ever happens–they will be refutable.

    I disagree, though, that Taitz plays up the attorney angle. She plays up the Orly Taitz angle.

  2. avatar
    aarrgghh December 14, 2013 at 3:13 am #

    obama having taken the oath of office is all the refutation any sane person requires.

  3. avatar
    Suranis December 14, 2013 at 3:21 am #

    But it will be so good when every law signed by Obama is nullified and every birthers taxes go up as the Bush tax cuts that Obama signed into law are removed.

    Wait, what?

  4. avatar
    Keith December 14, 2013 at 4:53 am #

    “Each of those words, “imitation,” “process” and “food” takes you one step further from real cheese.”

    There are some who would include the other word on the package; “pasteurized” as well.

    Serious Cheese: On Raw-Milk Cheese

  5. avatar
    Curious George December 14, 2013 at 8:09 am #

    Zullo vs Vogt. A very interesting face-off. It would be fascinating to know which side Corsi would take. It looks like the “any day now” mantra is wearing thin with the BR audience. Apparently, Zullo has taken the side of the alleged Birther “spy,” Jane Doe #1 and her alleged “forger” associate, Jane Doe #2. This will not be taken well by the Birther faithful and the Vogt supporters. . Soon to come, another Birther feeding frenzy, eating their own.

  6. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG December 14, 2013 at 9:10 am #

    I do so love birther in-fighting!
    Zullo’s fan base: “Our lies are the truth!”
    Vogt’s fan base: “No our lies are truth!”
    *The world’s most pathetic slap fight ensues*
    I’m barely even going to BR anymore. One can only read the same reaction posts so many times! They’re not even trying anymore, it’s just Ctrl-V from what they say in a similar thread posted in prior months.

  7. avatar
    realist December 14, 2013 at 9:45 am #

    I think Zullo’s irrefutable “evidence” is much akin to Apuzzo’s unrefuted definition of natural born citizen. Apuzzo ignores history, the Constitution and case law and recent court rulings which have specifically rejected his nonsense while Zullo ignores law, the Constitution and patent obvious facts.

    Both cling to their own definitions of such and since no one sane listens to them their BS remains irrefutable and unrefuted in their own tiny minds and those of their ignorant followers.

    As an aside, I gather from BR and other places that what Zullo REALLY means in his latest missive is not that they don’t know who the “forger” is or when, why and how it was created, but know they know the REASON it was created and that is what’s “ironclad” and “irrefutable”.

    Morons all.

  8. avatar
    gorefan December 14, 2013 at 10:24 am #

    While I haven’t heard it yet, I understand that Zullo said that he had interviewed Jane Doe #2 and that she was not a suspect. That must mean that her BC is legit. Which of course means her certificate number is legit. Which of course refutes the irrefutable evidence that the President’s certificate number is out of sequence.

  9. avatar
    Bob December 14, 2013 at 10:30 am #

    Zullo’s last promised “time frame” for releasing a report would have been mid-November and ORYR commenter “Julio Schwartz” said that if Zullo did not produce anything by mid-November that he would be giving up on Zullo. So, “Julio” just changed his name and went on supporting Zullo.

    I think Zullo’s grifting can be dragged out. He can say that it’s necessary to go to Hawaii to investigate the recent Obama-birth-certificate-adjacent plane accident. It’s also necessary to investigate the official investigation (because Obama won’t be implicated in it). So, we’re looking at September 2014 at the earliest before any reports can be released.

    Haste makes waste. Please send money!

  10. avatar
    Dr Kenneth Noisewater December 14, 2013 at 10:31 am #

    It should be funny to see how serial blunderer Mike Volin handles this since he’s had both Zullo and Vogt on his show recently. Will there be a disconnect or will Volin continue to support both theories?

  11. avatar
    Curious George December 14, 2013 at 10:52 am #

    Gore fan
    While I haven’t heard it yet, I understand that Zullo said that he had interviewed Jane Doe #2 and that she was not a suspect. That must mean that her BC is legit. Which of course means her certificate number is legit. Which of course refutes the irrefutable evidence that the President’s certificate number is out of sequence.

    But hasn’t Vogt claimed that Jane Doe #2’s BC was a forgery because of the file number? Zullo and Vogt apparently have a major disagreement to settle. This looks really bad for the CCP. Is Zullo protecting a high profile Birther?

  12. avatar
    The European December 14, 2013 at 11:52 am #

    Keith:
    “Each of those words, “imitation,” “process” and “food” takes you one step further from real cheese.”

    There are some who would include the other word on the package; “pasteurized” as well.

    Serious Cheese: On Raw-Milk Cheese

    In a few minutes I will enjoy – together with my loving wife – a real raw-milk “Munster” cheese from the Mu(e)nster-Valley in Alsace / France. It comes – of course – with some real french bread (a “flute”) and a bottle of dry “Gewu(e)rztraminer” from Alsace as well (this cheese and wine are recommended for people of good health only. If you are ill – this will cure you.)

  13. avatar
    gorefan December 14, 2013 at 2:35 pm #

    Curious George:
    But hasn’t Vogt claimed that Jane Doe #2′s BC was a forgery because of the file number?Zullo and Vogt apparently have a major disagreement to settle.This looks really bad for the CCP.Is Zullo protecting a high profile Birther?

    In his sworn affidavit Vogt said the numbers were added within days of the birth but in his sworn Alabama affidavit Zullo said the numbers were aded at the end of the month.

    Did one of them lie in their sworn affidavit?

  14. avatar
    Curious George December 14, 2013 at 3:44 pm #

    gorefan
    “Did one of them lie in their sworn affidavit?”

    How do they keep track?

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 14, 2013 at 5:37 pm #

    I don’t think Zullo’s affidavit says that.

    http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/141551627

    [Sorry, it does. Doc]

    gorefan: In his sworn affidavit Vogt said the numbers were added within days of the birth but in his sworn Alabama affidavit Zullo said the numbers were aded at the end of the month.

    Did one of them lie in their sworn affidavit?

  16. avatar
    gorefan December 14, 2013 at 6:46 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t think Zullo’s affidavit says that.

    http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/141551627

    Item 172?

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 14, 2013 at 7:20 pm #

    Weird. I did a text search on “number” and didn’t get anything. I do now.

    Thanks, I’ll add it to my article.

    gorefan: Item 172?

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 14, 2013 at 7:48 pm #

    This article has been updated with a new section at the end, and the tone made just a little more serious.

  19. avatar
    Curious George December 14, 2013 at 11:04 pm #

    Doc,
    “The known certificates make it clear that the main sorting of the monthly batch is alphabetic (and possibly a high-level sort on birth facility before). The latest known August 1961 certificate has the lowest certificate number (and the child’s last name begins with “A”). In order to try to make Obama’s certificate appear out of order both Vogt and Zullo make up inconsistent stories, neither of which fits the facts.”

    If I recall correctly, didn’t Vogt consider the low file number on the “A” birth certificate, dated August 1961, proof that it too was an alleged forgery?

  20. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 14, 2013 at 11:25 pm #

    Yes, but that’s not the only one that spoils the theory. What good is a theory that requires throwing out all the evidence? I know he thinks he has regulations and laws that require what he’s saying, but he doesn’t. I He’s confusing terms and misreading stuff.

    Curious George: If I recall correctly, didn’t Vogt consider the low file number on the “A” birth certificate, dated August 1961, proof that it too was an alleged forgery?