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The reckoning

Follow me in a little thought experiment. You’re driving on an icy road in the mountains and lose control, you crash through the guard rail and plunge a hundreds feet onto the rocks below. Only instead of waking up in a hospital amid beeping of monitors and with IV tubes in your arm, you find yourself uninjured in a brightly-lit room confronted with two doors. Heaven-HellOver the doors is an inscription: “Choose Heaven or Hell” and one door is labeled “Obama is a natural born citizen,” and the other “Obama is not a natural born citizen.”1 That is certainly a solution to the problem of having to deal with birthers in the afterlife, but not a scenario I ever expect to encounter. I am resigned to a belief that there is no ultimate reckoning between birthers and their detractors, no denouement.

Birthers are different. If you are reading this article the day it posted, you’ll find the Quote of the Day:

Dr. Conspiracy ‘ s website down for scrubbing – the legal term is "spoliation of evidence". No doubt Fogbow will be next. I suggest every patriot should be over there taking screenshots of the most incriminating material on the site. I don’t want to see any of those commies escape the net in March.

The culture of “any day now” is strong among the birthers and despite postponement after postponement, and failure after failure, many birthers still believe that the reckoning is nigh. For Orly Taitz, it is to be found in the next judge’s decision, and for others it will come from the Maricopa Sheriff’s Cold Case Posse, who have said that they have universe-shattering evidence that might be announced in March. They believe in arrival of that day when Obama is arrested and the world sees that his whole life is a fraud, and when everyone who defended him or made fun of birthers on the Internet will likewise be arrested as accomplices. It doesn’t have to make sense as long as they believe in it.


1The choice becomes much more interesting if, in addition to the existing labels, one of the doors is also marked “Heaven” and the other “Hell.”

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22 Responses to The reckoning

  1. avatar
    DaveH February 1, 2014 at 8:51 pm #

    It must be hell to be a birther.

  2. avatar
    Zim R. Men February 1, 2014 at 9:40 pm #

    I love thought experiments!

    The birthers sure don’t succeed in court much, but that may have something to do with the fact that it’s the government that pays the judges.

    I don’t know whether to be a birther or not but I do think the birthers have succeeded at a lot of stuff.

    For instance, mostly nobody even wanted to even discuss the issues brought up by Wing Nut Daily, but the birthers got the Cold Case Posse to investigate their stories. You would have to say that the Cold Case Posse finding evidence of forgery and fraud, whether it turns out to be true or not, is a big whopping success for the birthers.

    Plus the Cold Case Posse produced the video about the Selective Service Registration Card and no one has been able to explain that. That’s another big ol’ birther victory.

    Now the MCCCP claims it has universe-shattering evidence that it will produce in March. If the evidence is conclusive but the universe doesn’t literally shatter when they produce it, does that mean they are liars?

    If the MCCCP and Sheriff’s office produce evidence that conclusively shows forgery and fraud or something worser, will we have to reconsider and reassess the wisdom and good faith of the anti-birthers?

  3. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 1, 2014 at 10:08 pm #

    Now if I were confronted with a door that said: “Heaven: Obama is not a natural born citizen” I would pick the other door, since the door is a lie and Satan is the father of lies. Of course he could be lying. Hmmm.

  4. avatar
    aarrgghh February 1, 2014 at 10:12 pm #

    zim r men makes birfers sound like contestants in a conspiracy theory special olympics where just showing up is a triumph.

  5. avatar
    JPotter February 1, 2014 at 10:21 pm #

    Those signs appear to be easily interchangeable, Doc! Looks like a total crapshoot to me. Especially if you happened to die on April 1.

    “of the most incriminating material on the site.”

    I love that the directive (to others, of course, how dare a keyboard warrior be bothered) is not to find “incriminating material”, but to find the “most incriminating material”. That there is ‘incriminating’ material is of course, assumed. But, pray tell, what does this ‘incriminating’ material look like?

    Zim R. Men: The birthers sure don’t succeed in court much,

    Frame it!

  6. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 1, 2014 at 10:29 pm #

    Zim R. Men:
    I love thought experiments!

    The birthers sure don’t succeed in court much, but that may have something to do with the fact that it’s the government that pays the judges.

    I don’t know whether to be a birther or not but I do think the birthers have succeeded at a lot of stuff.

    For instance, mostly nobody even wanted to even discuss the issues brought up by Wing Nut Daily, but the birthers got the Cold Case Posse to investigate their stories.You would have to say that the Cold Case Posse finding evidence of forgery and fraud, whether it turns out to be true or not, is a big whopping success for the birthers.

    Plus the Cold Case Posse produced the video about the Selective Service Registration Card and no one has been able to explain that. That’s another big ol’ birther victory.

    Now the MCCCP claims it has universe-shattering evidence that it will produce in March. If the evidence is conclusive but the universe doesn’t literally shatter when they produce it, does that mean they are liars?

    If the MCCCP and Sheriff’s office produce evidence that conclusively shows forgery and fraud or something worser, will we have to reconsider and reassess the wisdom and good faith of the anti-birthers?

    Interesting idea of success you have considering they haven’t won on a single point. Really the selective service thing hasn’t been explained?

    There are plenty of articles on this site alone explaining it: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/category/sss/

  7. avatar
    Thomas Brown February 1, 2014 at 10:58 pm #

    “You would have to say that the Cold Case Posse finding evidence of forgery and fraud, whether it turns out to be true or not, is a big whopping success for the birthers.”

    There is no evidence of forgery or fraud. There are unfounded assertions. These claims are political theater, and perhaps that can be counted as a success in swaying the minds of really stupid people. But there’s that “turns out to be true or not” thing.

    The political success gained has a very poor shelf life. Because eventually everybody but the crackpots sees that Birfers and the Cold Case of Posse were liars. Liars. There will never be any admissible evidence. Ever.

    Smart people, even smart conservatives, know this immediately: it is nonsense to even discuss using an electronic image of any kind to determine the authenticity of a document. If you believe one can, you would probably also believe you can drive a 16-penny nail with a prune.

    Smart people also know that the issue is not the document, but the information. And Hawaii has verified the information. In court, that’s that. For fraud, the document must misrepresent some information. There is not a shred of actual evidence that occurred. Claims are not evidence.

    You think the Birfoons are going to be vindicated? Really? After they have been caught in a thousand lies? Each “anomaly” debunked?

    Common sense hasn’t told you that the side who has engaged in that is the wrong side?

  8. avatar
    Majority Will February 1, 2014 at 11:17 pm #

    Thomas Brown: If you believe one can, you would probably also believe you can drive a 16-penny nail with a (printout of a picture of a) prune.

    Better? ;-)

  9. avatar
    Majority Will February 1, 2014 at 11:19 pm #

    aarrgghh:
    zim r men makes birfers sound like contestants in a conspiracy theory special olympics where just showing up is a triumph.

    And not much of a troll. We’ve had better more recently that go much farther in keeping the internet stupid.

  10. avatar
    aarrgghh February 2, 2014 at 2:11 am #

    zim r men is very late to the party. birfer victories were mapped out four years ago.

  11. avatar
    Joey February 2, 2014 at 3:19 am #

    I could have sworn that the birther goal was to stop the election of Barack Obama in 2008 and then stop the reelection in 2012.
    They failed.
    Since no evidence of forgery has ever been turned over to a prosecuting attorney, all the Cold Case Posse birthers have is an allegation.

  12. avatar
    Keith February 2, 2014 at 6:46 am #

    Joey:
    I could have sworn that the birther goal was to stop the election of Barack Obama in 2008 and then stop the reelection in 2012.
    They failed.
    Since no evidence of forgery has ever been turned over to a prosecuting attorney, all the Cold Case Posse birthers have is an allegation.

    Didn’t you know? All their efforts are concentrated on getting him out of office sometime before February 2016. I’m not sure about the significance of that date, but they are focused like a laser beam on late January 2016 for the frog marching.

  13. avatar
    Whatever4 February 2, 2014 at 6:48 am #

    I like that Birthers think you have to take a website off line to get rid of articles or replace them. Yet they are all computer forensics experts.

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 2, 2014 at 7:56 am #

    Anyone with a grain of sense would know that someone trying to destroy evidence wouldn’t make a public announcement that they were doing it.

    Whatever4: I like that Birthers think you have to take a website off line to get rid of articles or replace them. Yet they are all computer forensics experts.

  15. avatar
    Publius February 2, 2014 at 2:13 pm #

    Anyone with a grain of sense isn’t a birfer.

  16. avatar
    JPotter February 2, 2014 at 2:33 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Anyone with a grain of sense would know that someone trying to destroy evidence

    … still wondering what, on this site, they term ‘incriminating evidence’. Shining light on folly is only criminal. in dystopia. It’s endlessly fascinating, seeing these nuts allege dystopia, in a society in which only the nuts are acting and thinking dystopically … and they’re (thankfully) not in power. It’s as if the Red Queen were a chambermaid rather than a cartomantic monarch. We used to have state institutions for this kind of delusion … now we have the interwebs.

  17. avatar
    Rickey February 2, 2014 at 7:53 pm #

    Zim R. Men:
    .You would have to say that the Cold Case Posse finding evidence of forgery and fraud, whether it turns out to be true or not, is a big whopping success for the birthers.

    So if the CCP’s “evidence” is fake, it’s a whopping success for the birthers? Even a first-grader would recognize that as crazy logic.

    Incidentally, the CCP’s “evidence” is fake.

  18. avatar
    Curious George February 3, 2014 at 7:12 pm #

    Joey
    February 2, 2014 at 3:19 am Joey(Quote) # “I could have sworn that the birther goal was to stop the election of Barack Obama in 2008 and then stop the reelection in 2012.They failed. Since no evidence of forgery has ever been turned over to a prosecuting attorney, all the Cold Case Posse birthers have is an allegation.”

    According to the Maricopa County PA, the MCCCP’s evidence was only speculation. No hard evidence of a crime and no jurisdiction to boot. No criminal complaint. I agree, the MCCCP theatrics were performed in an attempt to impact the 2012 presidential election. The side benefit is that the effort has apparently turned into a “cash cow.”

  19. avatar
    The Magic M February 4, 2014 at 4:15 am #

    the legal term is “spoliation of evidence”

    Another favourite “magic term” that birthers loved to tout, I think it was en vogue around 2010.
    Not that they have any idea what it means (just like with “misprision of …”). Or that their “screenshots” would have any legal value. Our beloved Alien Overlords’ Legal team (aka AOL) has that base covered. ;)

  20. avatar
    RanTalbott February 5, 2014 at 3:42 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy ‘ s website down for scrubbing – the legal term is “spoliation of evidence”

    Actually, I think the legal term he’s looking for is “paranoid delusion”.

  21. avatar
    RanTalbott February 5, 2014 at 4:32 am #

    Zim R. Men: The birthers sure don’t succeed in court much, but that may have something to do with the fact that it’s the government that pays the judges.

    No, it’s because of one of the things the government pays the judges to do: keep society from being driven into anarchy by a bunch of loons.

    Zim R. Men: You would have to say that the Cold Case Posse finding evidence of forgery and fraud, whether it turns out to be true or not, is a big whopping success for the birthers

    Not if you were sane: then you would have to say that it’s a huge source of shame and embarrassment that our supposedly enlightened nation has produced so many stupid people who cannot understand what “evidence” is.

    Zim R. Men: Plus the Cold Case Posse produced the video about the Selective Service Registration Card and no one has been able to explain that

    I blame the environmentalists: they keep insisting that people give up chemical fertilizers, so they produce ever-increasing amounts of bullshit to replace it.

    But, seriously: the only thing than can’t be explained about that nonsense is why Zullo isn’t _still_ trying to wash the rotten tomato stains out of his suit after showing piece of crap. They posit an imaginary “forger”, desperate to make a date stamp THAT HE DIDN’T NEED, scouring the Interwebz for pieces, finally being reduced to cutting up a new stamp to make in incomplete fake. The writers of Saturday morning cartoons come up with more-credible villains.

  22. avatar
    The Magic M February 5, 2014 at 12:04 pm #

    Zim R. Men: You would have to say that the Cold Case Posse finding evidence of forgery and fraud, whether it turns out to be true or not, is a big whopping success for the birthers.

    It’s not really a success for loons to find more loons willing to believe their lunacy, if that’s what you meant.
    In the real world, getting somebody to agree with you that the Earth is flat, “whether it turns out to be true or not”, is not a success at all, even if you got Stephen Hawking to be that somebody – and the CCP is as far from being the Stephen Hawking of law enforcement as Stephen Hawking is from being a cat.
    The only “success” would be the self-serving fact that you somehow convinced someone of something, but if that something is crap, you really haven’t won anything.

    This can be easily seen by the fact that nothing Arpaio did helped the birther cause in public, despite that having been the main reason the Arpaio/CCP stunt was attempted in the first place. If you look back at its beginnings, none of the leading voices of birtherism (Corsi, Farah etc.) believed this would somehow be a legal success (i.e. something that ends with Obama in front of a jury in Arizona). They all were clearly after the propaganda value for swiftboating the 2012 elections (“Obama is under criminal investigation for forgery, say, you really can’t vote for such a guy, can you?”).

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