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Некультурная Taitz

Taitz-unculturedI’m venting this morning.

The Russian word in the title literally translates into English as “uncultured.” My encounters with the word in literature suggest a stronger connotation, perhaps equivalent to the English phrase “white trash.”

What got my juices flowing this morning was an article by Taitz yesterday attacking Sandra K. Fluke, a woman whom some conservative demagogues shamelessly lie about and denigrate.1 Here’s what Taitz wrote:

Sandra Fluke became nationally known for waging a campaign and demanding free condoms as a law student. Apparently her activities, which necessitated such great expenses for condoms, led her not to become a lawyer, however this did not deter her from running for the State Senate in CA. With millions of bogus voter registrations, a corrupt establishment in CA and millions of stoned, drunk and otherwise brain dead Liberal Democrats in the Los Angeles area of District 26 Ms. Flukie-Fluke might actually win.

The phrase “Flukie-Fluke” sounds bitchy to me and indicative of a mean-spirited writer,  but the rest of the citation shows how irresponsible Taitz is about her information. First off, Sandra Fluke is a lawyer in California, which any fool can look up in about a minute on the California Bar web site, and one doesn’t have to even finish the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on Fluke to learn that she is an attorney. While Taitz in a follow-up title did issue a correction say that Fluke was a lawyer, she didn’t apologize and she didn’t remove the false statements from her prior article.

The general context Taitz presents for Fluke’s advocacy for contraceptive health coverage at Georgetown University  is also wrong. Fluke wasn’t trying to get condoms for herself but contraceptive coverage for all of the women at Georgetown (a Catholic school), an argument that House Republicans didn’t want to hear. And Taitz, not Fluke, is the one who engaged in a steamy extra-marital affair, reports court documents.

The other factual anomaly in the Taitz article regards the number of “stoned, drunk or otherwise brain dead Liberal Democrats in … District 26.” It’s not “millions”; there are fewer than 150,000 registered Democratic voters in District 26.

If this is what Taitz thinks of the voters in her state, and this is the quality of her public discourse, she has no business running for statewide office in California.


1Rush Limbaugh limply apologized for calling Fluke a “slut” and a “prostitute,” claiming that he was being humorous.

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120 Responses to Некультурная Taitz

  1. avatar
    Lupin March 5, 2014 at 9:11 am #

    It might be time to dig up the wet and juicy quotes about Taitz’ sexual cavorting from her ex-lover, with whom she carried out an extramarital affair, if I recall correctly.

    Mrs goose, meet the 10-tons gander.

  2. avatar
    John Reilly March 5, 2014 at 9:43 am #

    My recollection is that Ms. Fluke was not seeking free condoms. Rather, she sought to compel her school, a Jesuit institution, to include contraceptive coverage in her health insurance as required by Obamacare. Nothing in Obamacare requires any insurer or employer to provide condoms, free or otherwise. There is a serious issue in the dispute over the extent to which religious institutions can be forced to provide coverage for services they think wrong, and while I may disagree with Ms. Fluke on the substance of the issue, calling her names, whether by Limbaugh or Taitz, is just plain wrong.

  3. avatar
    Dave March 5, 2014 at 9:45 am #

    Speaking of albatrosses, the Sandra Fluke episode is one of the most blatant examples of how Rush Limbaugh, the rest of wingnut media, and the idiots who listen to them are more of a burden than a help to the GOP.

    House Republicans had carefully carved out a delicate political position, that attacked one aspect of Obamacare and represented themselves as being on the correct side of religious freedom. They obviously took some pains to make the issue not about the use of contraceptives, but only about who had to pay for them.

    And Limbaugh and the rest of the wingnuts set a bomb off under that carefully crafted position. By the time they were done, public perception was that Republicans think women who use contraceptives are sluts. Which was just another sledgehammer blow against the GOP’s already poor support from women.

  4. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG March 5, 2014 at 10:12 am #

    Let Taitz make the biggest public ass of herself that she possibly can, Doc. It’ll ensure that she won’t be holding public office.

  5. avatar
    bgansel9 March 5, 2014 at 10:33 am #

    Oh YES, I think it’s the PERFECT time to discuss Charles E. Lincoln III again. Don’t you? LOL

    http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2010-02-18/news/orly-taitz-at-the-head-of-the-birther-movement-has-her-love-life-displayed-in-court/

    Note to the real slut: birth control is NOT always condoms. Most often it is pills, and those pills treat other conditions other than avoiding pregnancy. As a matter of fact, looking at the myriad of pictures of you that I have over the years, you might have been able to make good use of these pills when you were younger to avoid acne. I can tell you had a bit of a problem with that condition. You hide it well, but I can still see it, especially right above your lip line.

  6. avatar
    J.D. Sue March 5, 2014 at 10:37 am #

    “Fluke wasn’t trying to get condoms for herself but contraceptive coverage for all of the women at Georgetown (a Catholic school), an argument that House Republicans didn’t want to hear.”

    —-

    As I recall it, most of her testimony was about the oral hormonal contraceptives that are prescribed for many medical uses, not just birth control. She testified about a classmate at Georgetown who was put at medical risk because she could not get coverage when she needed it to treat a medical condition. She was countering the assertion made by Republicans and institutions like Georgetown that a woman was still covered for its medical use.

    Of course, all of that was mocked by people like Rush (and Orly) who entirely mischaracterized her testimony.

  7. avatar
    Arthur March 5, 2014 at 10:46 am #

    The hysterical overreaction by conservatives to Sandra Fluke, and their bitter misrepresentation of what she said and what she stands for, illustrate the fear conservatives have about women’s contraceptive rights and human sexual freedom in general. Even otherwise rational conservatives like John Woodman embraced Limbaugh’s nutty characterization of Fluke. When will America recover from the nasty brutishness of it’s Puritan traditions?

  8. avatar
    bob March 5, 2014 at 10:54 am #

    In Taitz’s “correction,” she said Fluke “finally” became an attorney. Fluke passed the California bar on her first try, and at the earliest opportunity possible for her.

  9. avatar
    DaveH March 5, 2014 at 11:09 am #

    Thanks for pointing the fact out that birth control pills are not solely for the prevention of pregnancies. Nothing irks me greater than a right winger not understanding the importance of hormonal treatments for a wide variety of health issues women endure and would suffer through were it not for birth control pills.

    Note to the real slut: birth control is NOT always condoms. Most often it is pills, and those pills treat other conditions other than avoiding pregnancy. As a matter of fact, looking at the myriad of pictures of you that I have over the years, you might have been able to make good use of these pills when you were younger to avoid acne. I can tell you had a bit of a problem with that condition. You hide it well, but I can still see it, especially right above your lip line.

  10. avatar
    bgansel9 March 5, 2014 at 11:19 am #

    DaveH:
    Thanks for pointing the fact out that birth control pills are not solely for the prevention of pregnancies. Nothing irks me greater than a right winger not understanding the importance of hormonal treatments for a wide variety of health issues women endure and would suffer through were it not for birth control pills.

    You’re so welcome, Dave. I had a family member who took birth control pills for acne when she was a teenager.

  11. avatar
    Jim March 5, 2014 at 11:27 am #

    bgansel9: You’re so welcome, Dave. I had a family member who took birth control pills for acne when she was a teenager.

    Had a girlfriend in HS who took them to make her periods more predictable, nothing more embarrassing than starting your period while getting ready to do a high dive in a competition.

    My daughter takes them to make her periods less intense, she would double over in pain sometimes during her periods.

    My ex is taking them to try and smooth out her periods, she was having periods lasting weeks at a time.

    But, GOP forbid if they are ever used for anything but preventing pregnancy.

  12. avatar
    Yoda March 5, 2014 at 11:45 am #

    At least she spelled Fluke’s name right, which for Orly is a huge accomplishment.

  13. avatar
    Daniel March 5, 2014 at 11:47 am #

    Doc Wrote: ” Sandra K. Fluke, a woman whom Conservatives shamelessly lie about and denigrate.”

    Don’t get trapped in the “all Conservatives” trap. That kind of broad paintbrush is one of the birthers biggest downfalls.

    I am a Conservative and I hold Ms Fluke in the highest regard, and chastise those pretend Conservatives who behave towards her in the manner you speak of.

  14. avatar
    Rickey March 5, 2014 at 11:51 am #

    Speaking of Orly, she was punked again and allowed this to get through moderation:

    Captain K. Runch, USN (Ret.)
    March 3rd, 2014 @ 4:04 pm

    We finally have a candidate for Attorney General we can believe in! Continue to fight the good fight, Dr. Taitz. Remember the saying “Red sky in morning, sailor take warning.” Many people do not realize that “Red sky in morning” refers to the Communists.

    I wonder if she will claim that she has been endorsed by Captain K. Runch.

    http://redcrosschat.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/captain-crunch-face.gif

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 5, 2014 at 12:50 pm #

    I apologize for my sloppy generalization, which of course is not true.

    Daniel: Don’t get trapped in the “all Conservatives” trap. That kind of broad paintbrush is one of the birthers biggest downfalls.

  16. avatar
    Benji Franklin March 5, 2014 at 1:05 pm #

    Lupin: It might be time to dig up the wet and juicy quotes about Taitz’ sexual cavorting from her ex-lover, with whom she carried out an extramarital affair, if I recall correctly.

    Ah! Ah! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! You must be referring to Orly’s alleged dental-office inner-curse with Charles Lincoln III, which she was presumably prone to engage in, and thanks to the adjustability of her dental chair, could have been by Charley, in the event, FINISHED upright! There is no indication that nitreous oxide played an Orli-climactic role in the “HEY!” that ensued! (And yes, for English parts-of-speech enthusiasts, “Hey!” as used here, is an ejaculation!)

    Hopefully, Orly will change the sayings she has near the top of her home page which currently read:

    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny.
    When the government fears the people, there is liberty.
    – Thomas Jefferson

    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth
    becomes a revolutionary act. — George Orwell

    First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they
    fight you, then you win. — Mahatma Gandhi

    In light of her alleged dalliance with Charley, they might be modified to celebrate those few seconds of communion, such as has been done below.

    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny.
    When an incompetent lawyer is too cheap to pay a disbarred lawyer to proofread her filings, there is Tyrannosaurus sex.
    – Thomas Lincoln Jefferson the Thurd

    During times of universal deceit, promoting untruth
    becomes a sexsolutionary act. — George Orly Well

    First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they
    fight you, then they put the astroglide out-of-reach of your reclining dental chair. — Mahatma Randy Esquire

  17. avatar
    Arthur March 5, 2014 at 1:10 pm #

    Daniel: I am a Conservative and I hold Ms Fluke in the highest regard, and chastise those pretend Conservatives who behave towards her in the manner you speak of.

    Thank you, Daniel, for your support of reason over extremism. Like Dr. C., I spoke of conservatives in a general way. I wonder, though, if there were conservatives in politics or the media who spoke publicly about Sandra Fluke and who shared your attitude. I’ll see what I can find.

  18. avatar
    Northland10 March 5, 2014 at 1:18 pm #

    Ms. Fluke graduated cum laude, received competitive grants, was questioned by the House, spoke at the 2012 Democratic Convention and now may be running for office with a chance of winning. Is there any question why Orly is bent out of shape about Ms. Fluke?

  19. avatar
    sfjeff March 5, 2014 at 1:24 pm #

    This was Orly’s equivalent to Rush calling Fluke a slut.

    No respectable Conservative would ever do any such thing.

    Unfortunately the respectable Conservatives usually are not the ones with the microphones.

  20. avatar
    Crustacean March 5, 2014 at 1:36 pm #

    bgansel9: Oh YES, I think it’s the PERFECT time to discuss Charles E. Lincoln III again. Don’t you? LOL

    OK, please tell me how to purge from my brain that stuff about Orly Taitz’s sexual appetite. What’s it gonna take – a Taser to the temple? Shots of tequila? ‘Cuz my liver is willing to take one for the team, if necessary.

    And “what [they] did on [her] dentists’ chairs”? Lord, have mercy!! Just the thought of that gives me the heebie-jeebies. I can’t imagine the emotional trauma I’d be feeling if I were one of her patients. Seriously, if I’d spent so much as one second sitting on one of those dental chairs, I’d sue her butt off.

    The heebie-jeebies aren’t going away. Now where did I put that bottle of Victory gin…

  21. avatar
    Missyourmark March 5, 2014 at 1:40 pm #

    Besides the whole ridiculousness of the condom remark, I was also struck by how Orly tried to use the fact that Fluke never became a lawyer (even though she was incorrect about that fact) as a way to show that she was unqualified for public office. However, she believes that actually passing the bar, but then losing every single case that you have ever been in charge of, somehow makes Orly more qualified to be in public office. Just trying to stay on hypocrisy watch, and with Orly that’s a full-time job.

  22. avatar
    Daniel March 5, 2014 at 2:12 pm #

    Benji Franklin: which she was presumably prone to engage in

    More likely supine, or perhaps on top, sitting.

    Just a guess you understand.

  23. avatar
    Daniel March 5, 2014 at 2:18 pm #

    Arthur: Thank you, Daniel, for your support of reason over extremism. Like Dr. C., I spoke of conservatives in a general way. I wonder, though, if there were conservatives in politics or the media who spoke publicly about Sandra Fluke and who shared your attitude. I’ll see what I can find.

    There is no question that all we Conservatives share a measure of responsibility for the present condition of the GOP. The GOP in particular has much to answer for.

    All political parties are very much like pendulums. The GOP is currently in the apex ( i hope) of a swing to the radical faux (un)conservative fringe. It will be back. I just hope it doesn’t take too long for us to come to our senses and kick the loons to the curb, and reign in the politicians who are happy to take advantage of the swing.

  24. avatar
    Birther Weary March 5, 2014 at 2:28 pm #

    ” I just hope it doesn’t take too long for us to come to our senses and kick the loons to the curb, and reign in the politicians who are happy to take advantage of the swing.”

    Dream on.

    Republicans Propose New Bill That Would Sue Obama For Being President

    http://www.politicususa.com/2014/03/05/republican-propose-bill-sue-obama-president.html

  25. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 5, 2014 at 3:33 pm #

    Daniel:
    Doc Wrote: ” Sandra K. Fluke, a woman whom Conservatives shamelessly lie about and denigrate.”

    Don’t get trapped in the “all Conservatives” trap. That kind of broad paintbrush is one of the birthers biggest downfalls.

    I am a Conservative and I hold Ms Fluke in the highest regard, and chastise those pretend Conservatives who behave towards her in the manner you speak of.

    It’s an easy mistake. Sane conservatives are rarely heard from, because they’re busy with productive lives and minding their own business. I call today’s crop of shrill, high-profile right-wing psychos “neo-conservatives” to distinguish them from old-style conservatives who were interested in topics other than God, Guns and Gays, and who prided themselves on NOT believing utter nonsense. They were hard-headed sensible folks. My grandpa was one of such, and a lot of my current friends are too. Not a hater in the bunch.

  26. avatar
    Patrick McKinnion March 5, 2014 at 3:58 pm #

    What gets me is Dr. Orly did her “correction” with:

    “Correction: I received info that Sandra Fluke did finally pass the bar and became an attorney”

    “Finally”?? Let’s see.

    Sandra Fluke graduated cum laude from Georgetown University with her JD in June of 2012, passed the California Bar in July of 2012, and was admitted to the California Bar in December of 2012.

    So less than a month after she graduated, she passed the bar.

    Jealous much Dr. Orly??

  27. avatar
    helen March 5, 2014 at 4:01 pm #

    from Wiki
    “She claimed that, during her time as a law student, birth control could cost in excess of $3,000. She also stated that 40% of Georgetown Law School’s female population suffered financial hardship as a result of birth control not being covered by the student health insurance plan, and that the lack of contraception coverage in the university insurance plans would induce many low-income students to go without contraceptives. Fluke insisted that the women of Georgetown, other religious schools, and employees of religious institutions such as hospitals have endured “financial, emotional and medical burdens because of this lack of contraceptive coverage”

    Do you really believe those statements?

    may she be successful in her dreams and her law career!

  28. avatar
    Sef March 5, 2014 at 4:13 pm #

    Daniel: The GOP is currently in the apex ( i hope) of a swing to the radical faux (un)conservative fringe.

    Interesting. So this would be a case where an “apex” is also a “nadir”.

  29. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 5, 2014 at 4:35 pm #

    I don’t have any reason to disbelieve those statements. Do you have any facts to the contrary?

    helen: Do you really believe those statements?

  30. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 5, 2014 at 4:39 pm #

    Jealousy is one possibility. But I think it’s probably the generalized liberal hate syndrome we see so much.

    Northland10: Ms. Fluke graduated cum laude, received competitive grants, was questioned by the House, spoke at the 2012 Democratic Convention and now may be running for office with a chance of winning. Is there any question why Orly is bent out of shape about Ms. Fluke?

  31. avatar
    Arthur March 5, 2014 at 4:48 pm #

    helen: She claimed that, during her time as a law student, birth control could cost in excess of $3,000.

    According to the Georgetown website, a student can take up to three years to complete the Master of Laws degree. https://www.law.georgetown.edu/

    According to a two year old article from “The Week” website, the average cost of generic birth control pills in 2012 was $1080.00 a year. http://theweek.com/article/index/225451/the-cost-of-birth-control-by-the-numbers

    So, yes helen, a Georgetown student could spend “excess of $3,000″ on doctor prescribed birth control while pursuing a law degree.

  32. avatar
    Woodrowfan March 5, 2014 at 4:51 pm #

    Patrick McKinnion:
    Sandra Fluke graduated cum laude from Georgetown University with her JD in June of 2012, passed the California Bar in July of 2012, and was admitted to the California Bar in December of 2012.So less than a month after she graduated, she passed the bar.

    Yes, but Ms. Taiz graduated from the prestigious William Howard Taft Law School and Screen Door Company! AND she got the free set of steak knives with her degree!

  33. avatar
    Sef March 5, 2014 at 5:09 pm #

    Woodrowfan: Yes, but Ms. Taiz graduated from the prestigious William Howard Taft Law School and Screen Door Company!AND she got the free set of steak knives with her degree!

    Where she didn’t have to bother with having her beautiful mind cluttered up with any of that thar book larnin’.

  34. avatar
    Bob March 5, 2014 at 5:45 pm #

    This isn’t the first time I’ve thought “Orly is just parroting Wingnut talking points without really believing in them.” She’s obviously okay with extra-marital sex. Did she recently secretly convert to Puritanism?

    She’s just *against* whatever she imagines Democrats are *for.*

  35. avatar
    Keith March 5, 2014 at 6:05 pm #

    Thomas Brown: I call today’s crop of shrill, high-profile right-wing psychos “neo-conservatives”

    Urban Dictionary: psuedo-Conservative

    Richard Hofstader: The Pseudo-Conservative Revolt

  36. avatar
    helen March 5, 2014 at 7:07 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I don’t have any reason to disbelieve those statements. Do you have any facts to the contrary?

    while, in my youthful days, contraception was the man’s job, and not the females.

    Parse the sentence , Dr. C. and you will find that sound like a lawyer talking to the jury.

    ” Fluke insisted that the women of Georgetown, other religious schools, and employees of religious institutions such as hospitals have endured “financial, emotional and medical burdens because of this lack of contraceptive coverage”

    Now note, no indication that any of the women did not have these results, but it infers that all did , by using the term “women” without a modifier to indicate that she was not referring to all wome.
    So her statement is correct to the extent that there may have been some women so affected, but , it , obviously, would not apply to celibate females, would it?

    One exclusion damns the whole statement, except to attorneys!

  37. avatar
    Thinker March 5, 2014 at 7:14 pm #

    In my brief search, I found lots of sources that claimed (incorrectly) that Fluke was advocating for government to pay for condoms, but I couldn’t find anyone else making the claim that Fluke did not become a lawyer. Taitz’s moldy brain might have cooked that one up. I don’t think Taitz understands that most lawyers don’t sue people all the time. She may have thought that since Fluke is (apparently) not a litigator, she never actually became a lawyer.

    While I support most of the causes that Fluke has advocated, I find her sanctimonious. I don’t particularly like her. However, she did our nation a great service by setting herself up to become a lightning rod that drew out the misogynous teabaggers and exposed them to the American people.

  38. avatar
    Rickey March 5, 2014 at 7:14 pm #

    Benji Franklin:

    Hopefully, Orly will change the sayings she has near the top of her home page which currently read:

    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny.
    When the government fears the people, there is liberty.
    – Thomas Jefferson

    During times of universal deceit, telling the truth
    becomes a revolutionary act.— George Orwell

    First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they
    fight you, then you win.— Mahatma Gandhi

    Not to mention that Jefferson and Gandhi never said those things, and the Orwell quotation is probably a fake as well.

    The Gandhi quotation appears to be a paraphrase of remarks made by union leader Nicholas Klein of the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America in 1918.

    I wonder if Orly realizes that Orwell was a Socialist.

  39. avatar
    helen March 5, 2014 at 7:50 pm #

    quotations are usually transliterated into what the quoter wants to convey.

    translations are notorious for being erroneous.

    So when you translate quotations they may be doubly erroneous.

    It is best to interpret the quotation the way that you understand it, and not fret over the possible errors to the original

  40. avatar
    helen March 5, 2014 at 7:56 pm #

    I wonder how many people ever thought that $3,000 for birth control pills would exceed the total cost of health insurance under the old system.

    That would mean that if they took that benefit away , the the $2,500 saving promised would be met, as they could drop the coverage by $3,000 for the females.

  41. avatar
    helen March 5, 2014 at 8:05 pm #

    Birth control pills cost

    http://www.walmart.com/cp/pharmacy/5431?adid=22222222330213492312&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=p&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=12646854954&wl4=&veh=sem

    But, hey, they may be more at Georgetown

  42. avatar
    helen March 5, 2014 at 8:07 pm #

    Which , of course, brings to mind the questions as to why the government should pay any of the cost of personal living in a Law School?

  43. avatar
    jdkinpa March 5, 2014 at 8:22 pm #

    “an argument that House Republicans didn’t want to hear”

    the latest iteration of that truth

  44. avatar
    J.D. Sue March 5, 2014 at 9:03 pm #

    Arthur: Thank you, Daniel, for your support of reason over extremism. Like Dr. C., I spoke of conservatives in a general way. I wonder, though, if there were conservatives in politics or the media who spoke publicly about Sandra Fluke and who shared your attitude. I’ll see what I can find.


    I remember thinking, at the time when Fluke gave her testimony and Limbaugh trashed her, that Romney had a soft-served opportunity to show that he was not a [fill in the blank]. I thought, “This is an easy one, Romney. Just come out against calling Georgetown law students who testify before Congress “sluts” and “prostitutes”. But he wouldn’t do it, couldn’t do it….

    The whole incident reminded me of Anita Hill. Both Hill and Fluke are soft-spoken, well-spoken female attorneys who competently testified with precision and dignity and who were trashed as women. As a female attorney myself, I cannot overstate the respect I’ve felt for them as I’ve watched them calmly and straightforwardly deal with the issues while they have to deal with the mean-spirited potty-mouths on the right.

    As for Orly, she should be ashamed of herself.

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 5, 2014 at 9:11 pm #

    On the contrary. Oral contraceptives are used to treat a number of conditions unrelated to contraception. Georgetown’s health insurance wouldn’t pay for contraceptives prescribed for any reason.

    helen: So her statement is correct to the extent that there may have been some women so affected, but , it , obviously, would not apply to celibate females, would it?

  46. avatar
    Arthur March 5, 2014 at 9:15 pm #

    J.D. Sue: s a female attorney myself, I cannot overstate the respect I’ve felt for them as I’ve watched them calmly and straightforwardly deal with the issues while they have to deal with the mean-spirited potty-mouths on the right.

    I looked for conservatives who supported Sandra Fluke, and from what I found, there were prominent Republicans who either criticized or distanced themselves from Rush Limbaugh’s comments, but I’ve not found any conservatives who supported Fluke’s call for health insurance companies to cover women’s reproductive health needs. On other other hand, these men appear to have no problem with making insurance companies pay for boner pills.

  47. avatar
    Rickey March 5, 2014 at 9:22 pm #

    helen:
    quotations are usually transliterated into what the quoter wants to convey.

    translations are notorious for being erroneous.

    So when you translate quotations they may be doubly erroneous.

    It is best to interpret the quotation the way that you understand it, and not fret over the possible errors to the original

    The issue is not translation. the issue is misattribution.

  48. avatar
    J.D. Sue March 5, 2014 at 9:35 pm #

    Arthur: but I’ve not found any conservatives who supported Fluke’s call for health insurance companies to cover women’s reproductive health needs.

    Their position is silly. Insurance companies don’t even charge an extra premium for birth control coverage since not-being-pregnant is cheaper than paying claims for a pregnancy. And their position is anti-female-health-care. It’s as if they can’t deal with the lady-parts except on their own terms. How dare they; at least 50% of the country has lady-parts. And, thank goodness, many of us have men in our lives who want us to have good health care that we can afford.

  49. avatar
    Rickey March 5, 2014 at 9:35 pm #

    helen:
    I wonder how many people ever thought that $3,000 for birth control pills would exceed the total cost of health insurance under the old system.

    That would mean that if they took that benefit away , the the $2,500 saving promised would be met, as they could drop the coverage by $3,000 for the females.

    Wrong again.

    First of all, Fluke testified that contraceptive pills COULD cost $3,000, not that it WOULD cost $3,000.

    Second, not every woman uses birth control pills. 62% of women who are of child-bearing age currently use some sort of contraception, but of course there are many, many women who are no longer of child-bearing age and presumably will never use the contraception benefit, unless they have some hormonal problem which requires it.

    As with every form of insurance, people who make few or no health insurance claims help to pay for the benefits of people who make more claims. If you buy auto insurance and never have an accident, you don’t get your premiums refunded, because that money has been used to pay for claims of other people.The life insurance premiums of people who live a long life pay for the death benefits which are paid on behalf of policyholders who die young. If you buy term life insurance for fifty years and then cancel it before you die, you don’t get a refund because you never “used” the insurance.

  50. avatar
    Rickey March 5, 2014 at 9:38 pm #

    helen:
    Which , of course, brings to mind the questions as to why the government should pay any of the cost of personal living in a Law School?

    What are you talking about? Your question makes no sense. Health insurance covers you no matter what you are doing – working, not working, going to school, not going to school, and yes, even while attending law school..

  51. avatar
    J.D. Sue March 5, 2014 at 10:05 pm #

    helen: Which , of course, brings to mind the questions as to why the government should pay any of the cost of personal living in a Law School?

    —-
    No one asked the government to pay for it. Georgetown students wanted to purchase the insurance coverage through the school insurance program.

  52. avatar
    JPotter March 5, 2014 at 10:09 pm #

    Rickey: I wonder if Orly realizes that Orwell was a Socialist.

    Wingnut mind threatened by unwanted realization of the multidimensional nature of the socioeconomic spectrum:

    “But, but, but, BUT! Orwell was anti-communist! How could he possibly be—wait, what? BENGHAZI!”

  53. avatar
    Scribunda March 5, 2014 at 11:32 pm #

    helen:
    Birth control pills cost

    http://www.walmart.com/cp/pharmacy/5431?adid=22222222330213492312&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=p&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=12646854954&wl4=&veh=sem

    But, hey, they may be more at Georgetown

    Great, if your goal is to prevent pregnancy. Most women with heavy bleeding or other problems like endometriosis need to suppress their period, so they need extended oral contraceptives, which are not available for $9 anywhere. Very few of the brands at WalMart are even monophasic. I have my tubes tied and have a progesterone IUD. My hemoglobin, which had hit a rock bottom of 7.1, has reached 9.6 since I had the IUD placed in March. (As someone with a Factor V Leiden mutation, I cannot take oral contraceptives.) The IUD costs $800 plus insertion costs. Of course, that is much cheaper than the thousands it had cost to get iron transfusions or the tens of thousands for a hysterectomy plus its health consequences.

    So, there are legitimate medical uses for hormonal contraceptives–which should perhaps be renamed “ovulation suppression medication” so ignorant conservatives who watch Fox will stop imagining fornication every time they hear about them. There is also a huge economic benefit to providing women ovulation suppression medication beyond preventing pregnancy (which has much higher health risks than most contraceptives.) A huge number of women have heavy menstrual bleeding, which can lead to anemia, hurts worker productivity, costs society and employers in sick time amd presenteeism (when you are at work but not really working), and results in serious complications. In fact, the Mirena lasts 5 years, which means it costs less than one year of the Celebrex I was taking to relieve pain every month. You should really do your homework before spouting out about something you know little about. I went to ACOG and ASRM last year. Something tells me you did not.

  54. avatar
    Fred Flintstone March 6, 2014 at 12:51 am #

    Once again, Orly Taitz is her own biggest enemy. Instead of focus on a “campaign” she is trying to grab the far-right zoology treasure trove instead of discussing issues or at least campaigning against her opponent. Oops, I’m sorry – she even tried to suggest that AG Harris was having an affair. I think its fair game to examine the sex life of Ms. Taitz. Inquiring minds want to know – which came first, the marriage or the baby? If it was the baby, then it was an anchor baby. Secondly, did she really have a salacious affair with a subordinate – if so, that means she’s a risk for sexual harassment and should not be AG. Third, if she did have an affair with Mr. Lincoln she should be disqualified on moral grounds for seeking elective office, especially after slamming other politicos for THE EXACT DAMN SAME THING.

  55. avatar
    Suranis March 6, 2014 at 1:17 am #

    Since people are insisting on rehashing the rather boring Sandra Fluke thing, I’ll just point out that using contraception to treat medical conditions is not actually against Catholic doctrine. There was a specific exemption in Huminae Vitae about that. So whatever was going on at that hearing, it wasn’t about religion.

    And Nothing Fluke has done politically since has really impressed me about her. She seems to be almost as mememememe as Orly, but far more intelligent and capable.

  56. avatar
    Arthur March 6, 2014 at 1:29 am #

    Suranis: Since people are insisting on rehashing the rather boring Sandra Fluke thing,

    I don’t find it boring at all. The issues behind her case, and the way she was slut-shamed by conservative men in politics and media, illustrate much that is wrong with our culture.

  57. avatar
    Suranis March 6, 2014 at 1:41 am #

    The reason I found it boring at the time was the fact that, once again, both sides were basically screaming at one another and displaying the exact same holier than thou attitude. Its the same script, over and over.

    I pointed out the fact that what she was asking for was not against Catholic doctrine at the time and everyone ignored me as they just wanted to keep screaming. I found the liberal white knighting of her to be just as reprehensible as the conservative black knighting of her. They both wanted to publicize their own distortion of the woman and largely ignore the minutie of the actual issues, and I had gotten sick of watching yet another rerun of “2 identical sounding cavemen hitting each other over the head with clubs.”

    The only interesting thing about it was that Rush Limbaugh was forced into a climbdown.

  58. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 1:44 am #

    My goodness, I said it was careful wording to imply something and omit the information that did not support Fluke’s position.

    And she said:”Fluke insisted that the women of Georgetown, other religious schools, and employees of religious institutions such as hospitals have endured “financial, emotional and medical burdens because of this lack of contraceptive coverage”

    That is a blanket statement.

    How in the world do you suffer financial, emotional, and medical burder because of lack of CONTRACEPTIVE COVERAGE?

    Not medical coverge for female problems, but for CONTRACEPTIVE COVERAGE.

    You don’t prescribes drugs for prevent contraception, when you prescribe it for non-contreception reasons.

    You can prescribe them for acne, etc. , but they also could be being used for contraception by the users to hide the fact of their usage for that purpose.

    If the doctor prescribe pills for Anti-contraception it is wrongful to use them for other purposes, although sometime done.

    I don’t know how many women buy such pills, but with the birth rate , and abortion rates it seems that they must not think it important!

  59. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 1:53 am #

    And this may be why the insurance people objected”
    “http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a601050.html”

    “Cigarette smoking increases the risk of serious side effects from oral contraceptives, including heart attacks, blood clots, and strokes. This risk is higher for women over 35 years of age and heavy smokers (15 or more cigarettes per day). If you take oral contraceptives, you should not smoke.”

    Nothing like authorizing the usage of a drug that will increase the risk to the insured.

  60. avatar
    Notorial Dissent March 6, 2014 at 3:40 am #

    FWIW Некультурная is in fact a very good description of Haitz, far better than you would expect.

    The word while it can be properly if very loosely translated into English as uncultured, is not even close to the real meaning of the word in Russian .

    The word really comes in to play during the Soviet era and the connotation the word carried at the time would have made the English term “white trash” a high compliment. To be referred to as or called Некультурная was the ultimate social slam and disgrace in Soviet Russia. It is one of those charming little words that even though it does translate in to English, doesn’t really, we don’t have anything that even comes close to expressing the contempt that simple word carried in Russian.

    I had all but forgotten that term, thank you for bringing it back to mind, and as I say, it really does apply to Haitz

    By the way, Helen, you were wrong, yet again.

  61. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) March 6, 2014 at 3:57 am #

    Notorial Dissent: It is one of those charming little words that even though it does translate in to English, doesn’t really, we don’t have anything that even comes close to expressing the contempt that simple word carried in Russian.

    In German, we have a similar word, “asozial”. While it literally means “a-social” or “anti-social”, it carries a strong connotation of “white trash”, “violent alcoholic”, “totally devoid of any manners” etc. Derived words such as “Asi” are insults similar to “jerk” or “idiot”.
    The word was appropriated by the Punk movement (similiar to the n-word having been appropriated by blacks), giving rise to their signature sign, an “A” in a circle.

  62. avatar
    Krosis March 6, 2014 at 5:14 am #

    Wait, wait, doesn’t A in a circle stand for “Anarchy”? (And the circle, in some interpretations, stands for “Order”, as in the old “Anarchy is the parent of order” slogan).

  63. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 6, 2014 at 7:22 am #

    It wasn’t the insurance company that objected; it was the University purely on religious grounds. A medical decision should be between a woman and her doctor.

    I find your comment both stupid, disingenuous and offensive.

    helen: And this may be why the insurance people objected”

  64. avatar
    interestedbystander March 6, 2014 at 7:28 am #

    scribunda – sorry if this is a very personal remark, but noting that you are using a progesterone IUD, are you aware of potential health issues from so-called unopposed (by oestrogen) progesterone? It’s only that it’s a big issue in the breast cancer world, and is considered risky – so maybe worth asking your GP about? Sorry if that was intrusive.

  65. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) March 6, 2014 at 8:16 am #

    Krosis: Wait, wait, doesn’t A in a circle stand for “Anarchy”?

    In general, yes, but the German Punk scene has also embraced the “asozial” interpretation. It’s the word that was most often used to denigrate them, so they’ve appropriated it and wear it proudly. (It may again be different today where “asozial” is more often applied to the crowd that parties like there’s Spring Break every day.)

    You are correct that it wasn’t the original meaning of the sign, my bad, I mixed that up.

  66. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 6, 2014 at 8:47 am #

    There are tons of “non-slutty” reasons for birth control. I’ve known women who had a history of ectopic pregnancies who risked radical surgery or death without birth control. And women with more than enough kids already… isn’t it a conservative truism that people shouldn’t have more kids than they can afford?

    This is the sort of thing that makes me despise neo- (or “pseudo-”) conservatives. They point to the worst examples of any group, imply that the whole group is like that, then publicly insult the whole group and pass laws damaging the vast majority of the group. That is dishonest, mean, and ugly. And still you defend them, “helen.” As Samuel Jackson said, WTFU.

  67. avatar
    bgansel9 March 6, 2014 at 9:17 am #

    helen:
    Birth control pills cost (links to Walmart Birth Control Pills)

    But, hey, they may be more at Georgetown

    So you’re a doctor now and choosing medication based on no knowledge of any specific woman’s actual situation? Wow! You DO know there are many different types of birth control pills and they are not all exactly the same? You do know that doctors prescribe these medications based on their own patient’s medical situation? In the realm of available birth control pills, one type does not fit all situations. Where did you get your doctoral degree? Where do you practice medicine? What medical boards are you a member of?

    And where did you get the idea that the government was paying for these medications? You DO understand how insurance works? Doc is correct, a patient’s treatment (any treatment) is between the patient and their doctor, not their employer, not the government, not anyone else.

  68. avatar
    Northland10 March 6, 2014 at 9:43 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    It wasn’t the insurance company that objected; it was the University purely on religious grounds. A medical decision should be between a woman and her doctor.

    I find your comment both stupid, disingenuous and offensive.

    I see the troll continues the amazing ability to get almost every fact wrong.

  69. avatar
    Woodrowfan March 6, 2014 at 9:46 am #

    Northland10: I see the troll continues the amazing ability to get almost every fact wrong.

    Well, Helen is, at best, a fool, so it’s expected.

  70. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater March 6, 2014 at 9:50 am #

    helen: If the doctor prescribe pills for Anti-contraception it is wrongful to use them for other purposes, although sometime done.

    As usual jacky jokers you have no idea what you’re talking about. When fluke first came up on amazon you made the same claim and were corrected then. There are many medical reasons why contraceptions are used outside of birth control. For instance it controls hormone levels. Many women have issued with ovarian cysts and birth control helps control the body. I’ve known many who have had cysts grow to large sizes which required emergency surgery. As usual jack you make a fool of yourself.

  71. avatar
    Jim F March 6, 2014 at 10:16 am #

    This thread started off as an expose into the vile comments of Taitz and it has degenerated into an ill-informed discourse on contraception. Go back to the Taitz blog or whatever it was and concentrate on that.
    If I were Ms. Fluke I would use the message in my campaign. I would challenge my opponent to comment on it and unless there is an utter and complete repudiation of Taitz by that opponent I would make it a centre platform of the campaign.

  72. avatar
    Rickey March 6, 2014 at 10:30 am #

    helen:

    I don’t know how many women buy such pills, but with the birth rate , and abortion rates it seems that they must not think it important!

    Wow, you have no compunction about coming here and putting your ignorance on display for all to see.

    The birth rate in America in 2012, the latest year for which statistics are available, was the lowest in recorded history.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/09/06/chart-of-the-week-big-drop-in-birth-rate-may-be-levelling-off/

    The abortion rate is at its lowest point since 1973.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/study-abortion-rate-at-lowest-point-since-1973/2014/02/02/8dea007c-8a9b-11e3-833c-33098f9e5267_story.html

    Does it hurt to be wrong all the time? I’ve often wondered about that.

  73. avatar
    Rickey March 6, 2014 at 10:39 am #

    helen:
    I wonder how many people ever thought that $3,000 for birth control pills would exceed the total cost of health insurance under the old system.

    Wrong yet again.

    The average annual premium for an individual hasn’t been as low as $3000 since 2001. When Bush left office it was up to $4800.

    http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/8465-employer-health-benefits-20131.pdf

  74. avatar
    Daniel March 6, 2014 at 10:41 am #

    helen: My goodness, I said it was careful wording to imply something and omit the information that did not support Fluke’s position.

    And she said:”Fluke insisted that the women of Georgetown, other religious schools, and employees of religious institutions such as hospitals have endured “financial, emotional and medical burdens because of this lack of contraceptive coverage”

    That is a blanket statement.

    Oh look, Helen, the queen of blanket statements, is dripping and moaning about somebody supposedly making a blanket statement.

    Here’s another blanket statement, Helen. People like you, who pretend to be conservative just so you can spew your hate-mongering and prejudice, handed Obama two terms on a silver platter.

    Are you happy about that?

  75. avatar
    Notorial Dissent March 6, 2014 at 10:50 am #

    Helen dear, I don’t know if stupid and ignorant are your native conditions or is it genetic, but how about you try and rise above your unfortunate or is it genetic failings?

    I have a very dear friend, who was on “the pill” from the time she was in high school, for a very simple reason, she was subject to ovarian cysts of the very worst kind, and rather than have to risk surgery for one, or even better, death resulting from one of them, her doctor put her on “the pill”, which very probably saved her life if not her sanity, after having seen her when one of them flared up during a short hiatus from the medication I can well believe the latter. That she was on “the pill”, or why was no one’s business but hers and her doctor’s.

  76. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) March 6, 2014 at 10:55 am #

    Jim F: I would challenge my opponent to comment on it and unless there is an utter and complete repudiation of Taitz by that opponent I would make it a centre platform of the campaign.

    Why would she even dignify Orly as a serious opponent? Ignore the crazy or ridicule them. Treating their comments as if they were legitimate criticism only gives them a value they don’t have.

  77. avatar
    Jim F March 6, 2014 at 12:01 pm #

    Please read it again. I did not suggest that Taitz is an opponent of Ms Fluke

  78. avatar
    bgansel9 March 6, 2014 at 12:02 pm #

    Rickey: Wrong yet again.

    The average annual premium for an individual hasn’t been as low as $3000 since 2001. When Bush left office it was up to $4800.

    Helen obviously doesn’t have the average insurance premium or plan, she most likely has crap insurance where she pays about a hundred dollars a month and gets nothing in return.

  79. avatar
    Benji Franklin March 6, 2014 at 12:25 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in): Why would she even dignify Orly as a serious opponent? Ignore the crazy or ridicule them. Treating their comments as if they were legitimate criticism only gives them a value they don’t have.

    That’s the risk all of us take who respond civilly to the lunatic Birthers and their ranting diatribes. There’s a certain wild-card aspect to politics in the Internet Age that makes us think these screwball dis-informing and history-distorting assaults on the President need to be countered.

    In all likelihood, the true-believers among the Birthers are also advocates of assorted other conspiracy theories unrelated to this specific issue, which we would not waste a minute bothering to dispute.

    I think, in agreement with your comment, that our point-by-point dispute of their never-ending and no-unreasonable-holds-barred specious and frivolous conclusory allegations gives some of these nuts an importance-bestowing platform of attention and personal notoriety that nobody who actually knows them would consider giving them for a moment.

    Imagine the social/non-intellectual life of our own dullard John, who incessantly posts here preposterous non-arguments which are difficult to even contemplate seriously. Who on Earth would tolerate his drivel over even a mediocre cup of coffee? What would he have to say to any open mind, that would get him another hearing (outside of a looney-bin?)

    Unfortunately, we can’t allow a vacuum of non-responses to his drivel on the Internet, seem to be materially filled only by that drivel. For that reason, we will to some irreducible extent, by the time and attention we devote to his antics, continue to inadvertently be the enabling hosts of parasitic trolls like John.

  80. avatar
    Thinker March 6, 2014 at 12:30 pm #

    Helen claims to be elderly. She probably has pretty good health insurance–a single-payer, government-operated, socialist program called Medicare.

    But, I suspect she’s in the “keep government out of my Medicare” crowd.

    bgansel9: Helenobviously doesn’t have the average insurance premium or plan, she most likely has crap insurance where she pays about a hundred dollars a month and gets nothing in return.

  81. avatar
    The Magic M March 6, 2014 at 2:08 pm #

    Benji Franklin: For that reason, we will to some irreducible extent, by the time and attention we devote to his antics, continue to inadvertently be the enabling hosts of parasitic trolls like John.

    I think there is a difference between ordinary people on the Internet taking the time to refute nonsense and politicians in a public race for office taking the time to refute nonsense.
    What we do may only bolster the egos of some birther fools, but what a politician in an AG/SOS/Senator race does may allow those fools to reap propaganda value as in “there is genuine controversy”.

    Which is not to say I wouldn’t have welcomed some clear and strong words from the GOP about the birther nonsense. As in “whoever adheres to this delusional racist propaganda drivel has no place in our party”.

  82. avatar
    Benji Franklin March 6, 2014 at 2:24 pm #

    The Magic M: What we do may only bolster the egos of some birther fools, but what a politician in an AG/SOS/Senator race does may allow those fools to reap propaganda value as in “there is genuine controversy”.

    I completely agree that there is that difference.

  83. avatar
    Daniel March 6, 2014 at 2:32 pm #

    Of course there comes the real issue that all the posts about alternative uses of BCP, as legitimate as those may be, fails to address.

    Why should someone who does not share your religious strictures about sex, be forced to abide by your religious objections?

    Especially when it’s painfully obvious that as much as the religious right likes to judge other people by their own religious moral yardstick, those same people on the religious right can’t live up to it either. When they get their own teen pregnancy rate down significantly under the national median, then maybe they can talk about their concerns over sexual morality.

    Until then, STFU and stop being hypocrites.

  84. avatar
    Daniel March 6, 2014 at 2:34 pm #

    Helen doesn’t take into account how many of those women in law programs are already married…. and I’m sure she’d rather they had to drop out and pump out babies and leave the legal profession to the men anyway.

  85. avatar
    J.D. Sue March 6, 2014 at 3:13 pm #

    Daniel: Why should someone who does not share your religious strictures about sex, be forced to abide by your religious objections?


    There is no justification.

    What particularly gets me is when they talk about a for-profit corporation’s religion. We, as People, are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights. Corporations, however, are created by the State in which they are incorporated. The State is the Creator of corporations, and does not endow corporations with unalienable rights.

  86. avatar
    The European March 6, 2014 at 3:22 pm #

    Bob:
    This isn’t the first time I’ve thought “Orly is just parroting Wingnut talking points without really believing in them.”She’s obviously okay with extra-marital sex.Did she recently secretly convert to Puritanism?

    She’s just *against* whatever she imagines Democrats are *for.*

    Exactly. Dr. zahnwalt Orly Taitz Esq. , AKA “The Parrot”.

  87. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 4:42 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Jealousy is one possibility. But I think it’s probably the generalized liberal hate syndrome we see so much.

    Made me laugh!

    So you think it is the LIBERAL HATE that causes the problems.

    May be so, may be not!

    But I will probably make that mistake in the future.

  88. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 4:54 pm #

    contraception:

    con·tra·cep·tion
    /ˌkäntrəˈsepSHən/
    noun
    noun: contraception1. the deliberate use of artificial methods or other techniques to prevent pregnancy as a consequence of sexual intercourse. The major forms of artificial contraception are barrier methods, of which the most common is the condom; the contraceptive pill, which contains synthetic sex hormones that prevent ovulation in the female; intrauterine devices, such as the coil, which prevent the fertilized ovum from implanting in the uterus; and male or female sterilization

    Now which of these methods of CONTRACEPTION cost $3,000 a year.

    I have Blue Shield, Blue Cross, from PERS, and get refunded $2,400 yearfor the payment to medicare from my employer. and you know that Medicare people really don’t need contraception devices.

    I also know that females will need the hormone treatments, but not for contraception which is what the statement was about.

  89. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 4:58 pm #

    Daniel: Helen doesn’t take into account how many of those women in law programs are already married…. and I’m sure she’d rather they had to drop out and pump out babies and leave the legal profession to the men anyway.

    that is ridiculous. I think that if the women want to have babies in law school, go for it.
    If they don’t want to have babies, try to prevent it happening, and hope that it works.

    If it doesn’t work, don’t bitch about it..

  90. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 5:02 pm #

    The European: Exactly. Dr. zahnwalt Orly Taitz Esq. , AKA “The Parrot”.

    Age usually brings wisdom about sex, and that tends to change the minds of men and women.

    Everyone seems to desire extra-marital sex when they are young, but rethink that after their daughters are of age!

  91. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 5:07 pm #

    Which is not to say I wouldn’t have welcomed some clear and strong words from the GOP about the birther nonsense. As in “whoever adheres to this delusional racist propaganda drivel has no place in our party”.

    absolutly, now define the adjective “racist” as used with the word “propaganda”

    Drivel is easily defined by personal beliefs being applied to the words.

  92. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 5:14 pm #

    Thinker: Helen claims to be elderly. She probably has pretty good health insurance–a single-payer, government-operated, socialist program called Medicare. But, I suspect she’s in the “keep government out of my Medicare” crowd.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_social_security_and_medicare_considered_socialist_programs

    “That depends on your definition of “socialist.” Social Security and Medicare are financed by participants and their employers, so in that sense are probably not socialist. Medicaid, which is financed by public funds (taxes and borrowed money), could probably be considered socialist. However, in that sense, fire protection and law enforcement could also be considered socialist”

    but, believe as you wish!

  93. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 5:18 pm #

    Notorial Dissent: Helen dear, I don’t know if stupid and ignorant are your native conditions or is it genetic, but how about you try and rise above your unfortunate or is it genetic failings?I have a very dear friend, who was on “the pill” from the time she was in high school, for a very simple reason, she was subject to ovarian cysts of the very worst kind, and rather than have to risk surgery for one, or even better, death resulting from one of them, her doctor put her on “the pill”, which very probably saved her life if not her sanity, after having seen her when one of them flared up during a short hiatus from the medication I can well believe the latter. That she was on “the pill”, or why was no one’s business but hers and her doctor’s.

    You are absolutely correct, but the question is; Did the doctor prescribe them for Contraception , or for medical reasons.

  94. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 5:32 pm #

    bgansel9: Helen obviously doesn’t have the average insurance premium or plan, she most likely has crap insurance where she pays about a hundred dollars a month and gets nothing in return.

    the minimum wage was $7.50 an hour, and you think with an income of $16.500 a year that a person could pay $3,000 for health insurance?

    Of course not! they did what the people do today, Go to the emergency room and get treated, or treat themselves.

  95. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 6, 2014 at 5:38 pm #

    Apparently the desire for extra-marital sex is strong in the older generation too.

    helen: Everyone seems to desire extra-marital sex when they are young, but rethink that after their daughters are of age!

  96. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 5:41 pm #

    Daniel: Oh look, Helen, the queen of blanket statements, is dripping and moaning about somebody supposedly making a blanket statement.Here’s another blanket statement, Helen. People like you, who pretend to be conservative just so you can spew your hate-mongering and prejudice, handed Obama two terms on a silver platter.Are you happy about that?

    How about this , my family voted for him the first time, I did not!

    Because McCain was a former military man and I prefer prior military service for the Presidents.

  97. avatar
    Keith March 6, 2014 at 6:11 pm #

    helen: You are absolutely correct, but the question is; Did the doctor prescribe them for Contraception , or for medical reasons.

    Georgetown didn’t want to leave that decision to the Doctor and Patient. They wanted to ban it period.

    Georgetown did not care that the medication could be used for other vital medical purposes (other than specifically preventing pregnancy), or that Catholic doctrine provided for medication to be used for those vital medical purposes (other than specifically preventing pregnancy).

    Georgetown University wanted to ban its student population and staff from the free market of insurance products and forbid them from obtaining the insurance product they wanted to purchase. As an American institution, that is extraordinarily un-American and anti-Capitalist.

    Georgetown University wanted to ban its student population and staff from obtaining the best medical care available. As a religious institution, that is extraordinarily um-Charitable and anti-Christian.

    To the extent that Georgetown University has a responsibility to its student population as a ‘surrogate parent’, the entire attitude borders on child abuse.

    There is no spin that can be spun, no what-if’s, no yeah-buts, that makes Georgetown’s stance look like anything other than a cynical, 19th Century throwback to the ‘we must suppress the savages for their own good’ attitude.

  98. avatar
    JPotter March 6, 2014 at 6:35 pm #

    So …. I wonder what that cray cray Некультурная Taitz thinks about birth control and the financing thereof?

  99. avatar
    Scribunda March 6, 2014 at 8:45 pm #

    helen:
    My goodness, I said it was careful wording to imply something and omit the information that did not support Fluke’s position.

    And she said:”Fluke insisted that the women of Georgetown, other religious schools, and employees of religious institutions such as hospitals have endured “financial, emotional and medical burdens because of this lack of contraceptive coverage”

    That is a blanket statement.

    How in the world do you suffer financial, emotional, and medical burder because of lack of CONTRACEPTIVE COVERAGE?

    Not medical coverge for female problems, but for CONTRACEPTIVE COVERAGE.

    You don’t prescribes drugs for prevent contraception, when you prescribe it for non-contreception reasons.

    You can prescribe them for acne, etc. , but they also could be being used for contraception by the users to hide the fact of their usage for that purpose.

    If the doctor prescribe pills for Anti-contraception it is wrongful to use them for other purposes, although sometime done.

    I don’t know how many women buy such pills, but with the birth rate , and abortion rates it seems that they must not think it important!

    I guess you missed the part where she explained how women she knew who needed it for medical reasons were sometimes asked to prove they were not using it for contraception and even when they did were sometimes denied permission to use it. You see, insurance companies have guidelines that almost always adhere closely to FDA approved uses because they like to avoid paying money. Contraceptives are not approved for acne or endometriosis or generally polycystic ovarian syndrome. Until recently, Mirena was mot approved for heavy menstrual bleeding. Doctors use them off label for these indications, and no pharma company is going to conduct the expensive trials needed to prove these drugs work for other uses. One, they might not meet efficacy criteria for approval. Two, makers of contraceptives are often sued by women claiming they had this or that side effect. If you are taking it for am unapproved use, it is much harder to win a claim. Three, generic contraceptives are so widely available that they are not likely to make money by getting a new approval of a product for which they do not have exclusive use. Four, doctos are already using it for these conditions off label, so why comission a study? But again, many insurers will not pay for off label use of drugs. But if you do not go to a Catholic school, they assume it is for birth control and cover it. If you go to a Catholic school, they may try to fight your request to use it off label because they are like every other insurer and do not want to pay the money.

    If you want to keep arguing about it, at least know what you are talking about.

  100. avatar
    Scribunda March 6, 2014 at 8:47 pm #

    helen: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_social_security_and_medicare_considered_socialist_programs

    “That depends on your definition of “socialist.” Social Security and Medicare are financed by participants and their employers, so in that sense are probably not socialist. Medicaid, which is financed by public funds (taxes and borrowed money), could probably be considered socialist. However, in that sense, fire protection and law enforcement could also be considered socialist”

    but, believe as you wish!

    They are socialist. What you paid in does not even begin to cover what gets paid out on your behalf. But believe as you wish.

  101. avatar
    JPotter March 6, 2014 at 9:21 pm #

    helen: Social Security and Medicare are financed by participants and their employers, so in that sense are probably not socialist.

    Wrong again, sir. SS and FICA function by taxing current payees (at current rates and in current, relatively depreciated dollars) in order to fund benefits paid out to current beneficiaries (who are themselves past payees, who paid in at past rates long ago, funding benefits paid to the payees who went before…)

    It’s pretty darn redistributionist. Are such programs called ‘socialist’ only when the happen in European countries?

    helen: fire protection and law enforcement could also be considered socialist

    Especially if they are public. They were not always so. Publicly-financed public safety is a modern development in our social contract. ;)

  102. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 9:56 pm #

    Social Security money is in a trust fund, and distributed to people entitled to social security benefits. No governmental money is involved.

    Not socialist in function.

    Police force is paid from tax money, and provided to all in need, even if they paid no taxes, usually , that is.

    Socialist in tenor, perhaps!

  103. avatar
    helen March 6, 2014 at 10:01 pm #

    Scribunda: They are socialist. What you paid in does not even begin to cover what gets paid out on your behalf. But believe as you wish.

    what you put into your saving account and withdraw with paid interest is socialist?

    When I put $50,000 in bonds and collect $100,000 at maturity is socialist?

  104. avatar
    John Reilly March 7, 2014 at 1:01 am #

    Mr. Helen: There is absolutely nothing, nothing at all, Socialist about insurance. Folks are free to band together to share risk. If they want, in that effort, to include contraceptives as part of their sharing of risk, they can do so. If the government, in its role as a regulator, describes what can and cannot be in a risk-sharing arrangement, that is not Socialist either.

    Socialism is the ownership of the means of production by the government or by the workers, rather than by non-governmental capital. Socialism might include government ownership of insurers, but by and large the government in this country does not do so.

  105. avatar
    helen March 7, 2014 at 3:01 am #

    And , I graduated from Cal Berkeley and majored in PolySci and Econ.

    Not that it makes any difference.

  106. avatar
    helen March 7, 2014 at 3:11 am #

    Everyone has a different defiintion of socialism.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

    “Full Definition of SOCIALISM
    1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
    2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
    3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done ”

    Of which #3 was the usual defintion.
    From each according to ability , to each according to need.,
    Which leads,in my opinion , to the destruction of the sociiety.

  107. avatar
    helen March 7, 2014 at 3:19 am #

    JPotter: Wrong again, sir. SS and FICA function by taxing current payees (at current rates and in current, relatively depreciated dollars) in order to fund benefits paid out to current beneficiaries (who are themselves past payees, who paid in at past rates long ago, funding benefits paid to the payees who went before…)It’s pretty darn redistributionist. Are such programs called ‘socialist’ only when the happen in European countries?Especially if they are public. They were not always so. Publicly-financed public safety is a modern development in our social contract.

    You are generally correct, except that social security also pays benefits to people who have not paid much into the system in the SSDI section,

    Social Securtiy Insurance is the name of it.

    http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/cola/piaformula.html

    “The “primary insurance amount” (PIA) is the benefit (before rounding down to next lower whole dollar) a person would receive if he/she elects to begin receiving retirement benefits at his/her normal retirement age. At this age, the benefit is neither reduced for early retirement nor increased for delayed retirement”

    Which, of course, is not socialixm

  108. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater March 7, 2014 at 7:52 am #

    helen:
    Which is not to say I wouldn’t have welcomed some clear and strong words from the GOP about the birther nonsense. As in “whoever adheres to this delusional racist propaganda drivel has no place in our party”.

    absolutly, now define the adjective “racist”as used with the word “propaganda”

    Drivel is easily defined by personal beliefs being applied to the words.

    Lets see Jack when you make the same arguments as xenophobic nativists that would be racist propaganda.

  109. avatar
    The Magic M March 7, 2014 at 8:54 am #

    helen: Everyone seems to desire extra-marital sex when they are young, but rethink that after their daughters are of age!

    Not really. They would still like to have extra-marital sex (or have it if they were young again), they just don’t want certain *others* to have it.

    That means they just exhibit the old “do as I say, don’t do as I do” – just like they will still smoke and drink alcohol but not want their teenage kids to do the same.

    That is not “rethinking”.

    helen: Age usually brings wisdom about sex

    Not necessarily. For those who still (can) have sex, it often does. For those who don’t get any anymore, envy often gets the better of them – “if I can’t have it, so can’t everybody else”.

    Which is why old people who are still sexually active don’t typically change their opinion to “sex is for reproduction only”.

  110. avatar
    bgansel9 March 7, 2014 at 10:25 am #

    helen: the minimum wage was $7.50 an hour, and you think with an income of $16.500 a year that a person could pay $3,000 for health insurance?

    Of course not! they did what the people do today, Go to the emergency room and get treated, or treat themselves.

    So, as I was talking about your situation specifically, you admit you were making minimum wage and had crap insurance? Alrighty then!

  111. avatar
    sfjeff March 7, 2014 at 11:16 am #

    helen: Everyone seems to desire extra-marital sex when they are young, but rethink that after their daughters are of age!

    I desired and enjoyed marriage outside of marriage before I was married. After I got married, I had not desire for extramarital sex.

    As far as my daughters- frankly I expect that they will have the same path as I did, and I am okay with that.

    The reality is that adults like sex. And until they get married it is all extramarital.

  112. avatar
    helen March 7, 2014 at 2:59 pm #

    bgansel9: So, as I was talking about your situation specifically, you admit you were making minimum wage and had crap insurance? Alrighty then!

    My first job was 22 cents an hour, and it had no heatlh insurance, and , in fact, health insurance was not available to anyone.

    How on earth did we survive without health insurance.

    I had health coverage at UC Berkeley before the Korean war, but it was not insurance as it cost nothing from my pocket.

    I joined Kaiser in 1954 and then switched to another plan in 1966

  113. avatar
    Arthur March 7, 2014 at 3:25 pm #

    helen: Everyone seems to desire extra-marital sex when they are young

    I got plenty of extra-marital sex; it’s the amount of marital sex that has left me wanting. Oh, and uh, no need to let the little woman know about this, ok?

  114. avatar
    KMB March 7, 2014 at 10:50 pm #

    A friend of mine read this and asked what I thought Orly’s *O* face looked like……….I have been unable to hit my head hard enough to get the picture out of my mind…..

  115. avatar
    helen March 7, 2014 at 10:52 pm #

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/extramarital

    “Full Definition of EXTRAMARITAL
    : of, relating to, or being sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her spouse :”

    It explains why explaining something does not explain anything that people don’t want to believe.

    exactly like “conraceptive”

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/contraceptive

    “contraceptive (kŏn′trə-sĕp′tĭv)
    A substance or device capable of preventing pregnancy”

  116. avatar
    JRC March 8, 2014 at 1:28 am #

    helen: My first job was 22 cents an hour, and it had no heatlh insurance, and , in fact, health insurance was not available to anyone.

    How on earth did we survive without health insurance.

    I had health coverage at UC Berkeley before the Korean war, but it was not insurance as it cost nothing from my pocket.

    I joined Kaiser in 1954 and then switched to another plan in 1966

    Helen, you are in denial. Did you pay tuition or have a scholarship? Did you get coverage from the college? Progressive college? I guess free health care for everyone since you had it back in those college days and the college (university is still in existence). Anyway I have a feeling that health care cost were a little less back then, which is why health care reform was a major topic for both parties, until Obama went with the Republican plan. Now it’s socialism, communism because it’s only that when the Federal government does it, not the State of Mass.

  117. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 8, 2014 at 3:33 am #

    helen: My first job was 22 cents an hour, and it had no heatlh insurance, and , in fact, health insurance was not available to anyone.

    Anyone….anywhere? Or anyone you knew?

    Many companies provided health care to their workers. The large railroads come quickly to mind with company operated clinics and hospitals throughout their systems as early as the late 1800′s. In 1915 Henry Ford started what is today the largest medical care provider in Michigan.

    helen: How on earth did we survive without health insurance.

    Many people didn’t and that’s why enlightened employers made sure their employees had access to quality health care.

    helen: I had health coverage at UC Berkeley before the Korean war, but it was not insurance as it cost nothing from my pocket.

    If you were a student at Cal it was probably included in your tuition. Again, healthy students are better students.

    Health care is a right and should be available to everyone. Enlightened folks understood that 100 years ago. Why are we still arguing about it today?

  118. avatar
    Majority Will March 8, 2014 at 8:41 am #

    “One of the biggest problems with the world today is that we have large groups of people who will accept whatever they hear on the grapevine, just because it suits their worldview—not because it is actually true or because they have evidence to support it. The really striking thing is that it would not take much effort to establish validity in most of these cases… but people prefer reassurance to research.”

    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  119. avatar
    Arthur March 8, 2014 at 8:48 am #

    helen: It explains why explaining something does not explain anything that people don’t want to believe.

    Especially when you selectively edit a definition to fulfill your own agenda. For example, the first definition of extramarital is sex outside of marriage, not adultery.

  120. avatar
    Northland10 March 8, 2014 at 10:22 am #

    helen: How on earth did we survive without health insurance

    We didn’t. Shared costs have allowed us to afford medical procedures that were at one time not possible. These procedures have allowed to survive longer, reduce infant mortality and increase the quality of life. Without the sharing of costs and the increase in care, my parents would no longer be around.

    It is a good thing that you are just trolling for if you actually felt the way you speak, than I would have to conclude that you are nothing but a parasitic growth on humanity. You statements lack any sort of morals and are not worthy of being an American or human.