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Fuddy offed by flotsam?

Butterdezillion is continuing on her theme of a Loretta Fuddy murder or abduction with some still shots from ABC footage of the passengers in the water taken by Mr. Puentes. The stills that come from the sequence beginning around 3:30 in the Nightline video for just a moment show something that might be imagined to be a scuba diver wearing a raincoat and a big floppy hat, but in the whole sequence viewed in motion looks like debris. Certainly if it had been a real diver, there would have been a reaction from the people in the water, which there was not.

The way I look at these things is to download the video and then single-step with QuickTime (the arrow keys move by one frame).

Also in the video I found a young man wearing glasses and a pointed wizards hat riding a motorcycle.

Harry Potter?

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44 Responses to Fuddy offed by flotsam?

  1. avatar
    gorefan March 8, 2014 at 10:37 am #

    Actually butter doesn’t think that Director Fuddy was murdered. According to her, Ms. Fuddy is still alive.

    ==============================================================

    To: Ray76

    You want my theory?

    My theory is that the people on board are decent people who would not watch an assassin kill Fuddy. They have kept quiet because they believed what was done was necessary to protect Fuddy – to put her in protective custody, so to speak. And I believe that’s what happened. I believe the extras were there to make sure everybody was safe while Fuddy was retrieved, with either a dummy or another person left there in her place to be the last person picked out of the water. I believe she was taken somewhere to live out the rest of her days under a different identity, just like the Benghazi witnesses were given new identities to keep them away from Congressional investigators. So what I’m suggesting here is nothing bizarre; we already know it’s been done for multiple people to keep them unavailable to investigators.

    Obama’s people are very likely to know what Arpaio has on Obama. Just like they knew what happened in Benghazi. And in Fast & Furious. And in the Bin Laden raid. And in Extortion 17. And in the IRS targetings. And in the Boston bombing. And in the Morsi election. And in the Kenyan election. Etc ad nauseum. This is the kind of stuff that this regime does, and there is nothing radical about just coming out and saying that’s how these people operate.

    There was a woman there who looks so much like Fuddy that I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out which one it was. I suspect that she and/or a purplish inflatable filled in for Fuddy once she was taken out from under her life jacket, and perhaps the Fuddy-like woman filled in for her under the blanket while the priest did whatever he did at the care home. The “body” was transported to the Molokai airport where Fuddy’s family (probably sister and brother-in-law) ID’ed the body. The brother-in-law said he was helping out on the ground there in Kalaupapa when he found out there was a family member involved, but the MCFD incident report does not name Scotty Schaefer and though I’d have to check again, IIRC it doesn’t mention EMS from Molokai Hospital, which I believe is who Schaefer works for. The reports said MCFD flew the victims to Molokai (or Maui, depending on which news report is referenced).

    I didn’t worry about the funeral at first because I figured if she was still alive they would either claim to have cremated her or have a Hollywood-style mock-up of her in a casket. And if she was dead, then she was dead – which was what I initially believed. But there was something goofy with that funeral, or KITV would not have had to photoshop the casket with her hands showing. In any event, the mourners would not have had to think anything was different than usual – either if they had a mock-up or if they had an urn.

    Most, if not all, of the people in that plane knew there were extra people in the water. I suspect that at least some of them were in the plane’s cargo area and exited while Puentes held his hand over the camera making a lot of dark frames that could be edited out later with nobody being any the wiser.

    None of the others acted very surprised. None of them said anything about it afterwards. But there the people are in the video. (And there’s more coming) Puentes was prepared with 2 GoPros and a waterproof microphone that he clipped onto his life jacket. Richard Kawasaki, the media liaison for the MCFD, was prepared with his story of one dead – 4 minutes before the Coast Guard was confirmed as being on-site and I think 20 minutes before anybody at the MCFD even knew how many the USCG had picked up – and Fuddy was the last one they picked up. If they picked her up; they claimed to have picked up 3, but the 73-year-old woman, Kawasaki, and the 70ish-year-old man make 3 without Fuddy.

    In short, I believe this was a planned crash with people arranged to be there to keep a close watch and keep everybody safe. I believe the photography may have been to prove that they did not kill Fuddy, and that they did their jobs to keep everybody safe. With those extra people in the water it is clear that something was up, and if I was any one of those passengers I would want video to prove that I did not kill Fuddy. The edited video was supposed to satisfy all of us, or at least provide a way for the media and other “concerned” people to ridicule anybody who still claimed the Fuddy death was suspicious. But there was so much going on – so many extra people to try to avoid, so many things we were supposed to be kept from seeing, and only so much film. As a result, some things got left in there that nobody was supposed to see because it was dark and zipped by too fast for anybody to see.

    I bet they were laughing their buns off at using that video as proof against the “conspiracy kooks”, wiping our faces in the fact that they can even turn evidence against them into evidence against us. Just like they did with the fake long-form and the verification that actually verified that Obama’s BC is legally non-valid. That is just how these people ARE. They mock truth every chance they get. You’ve seen it.

    So. That’s what I believe.

    775 posted on March 2, 2014 at 12:08:14 AM PST by butterdezillion (Note to self : put this between arrow keys: img src=””/)
    [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 773 | View Replies | Report Abuse]

    ==============================================================

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3126226/replies?c=775

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 8, 2014 at 10:53 am #

    Thanks,

    I wonder how an inflatable dummy fooled the medical examiner who did Fuddy’s autopsy.

    gorefan: Actually butter doesn’t think that Director Fuddy was murdered. According to her, Ms. Fuddy is still alive.

  3. avatar
    JPotter March 8, 2014 at 11:00 am #

    A scuba diver … wearing a big floppy hat???

    Doesn’t seem like the best choice of headgear for an underwater working environment.

  4. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 8, 2014 at 11:12 am #

    JPotter:
    A scuba diver … wearing a big floppy hat???

    Bella Abzug! Back from the grave to save Loretta Fuddy. Makes sense to me.

  5. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 8, 2014 at 11:14 am #

    I believe that there is a movie version of Fuddy’s underwater abduction in the works, called Flushed Away II.

    gorefan: I believe the extras were there to make sure everybody was safe while Fuddy was retrieved

  6. avatar
    gorefan March 8, 2014 at 11:15 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: wonder how an inflatable dummy fooled the medical examiner who did Fuddy’s autopsy

    According to Butter – everyone is in on it. Coast Guard rescue swimmers, passengers, Maui FD, hospital personnel, medical examiner, news media, Josh Lang (he flew over the downed plane and took pictures which Butter says are Photoshopped), just about everyone in Hawaii is in on it.

  7. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 8, 2014 at 12:08 pm #

    gorefan: According to Butter – everyone is in on it.Coast Guard rescue swimmers, passengers, Maui FD, hospital personnel, medical examiner, news media, Josh Lang (he flew over the downed plane and took pictures which Butter says are Photoshopped), just about everyone in Hawaii is in on it.

    What fascinates me is that the folks who can’t create a passable birth certificate can weave an impenetrable conspiracy like this that involves thousands and thousands of people.

    What’s wrong with this picture? (Pun intended.)

  8. avatar
    GLaB March 8, 2014 at 3:28 pm #

    Not Harry Potter (no wide brim).

    Link.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_in_The_Legend_of_Zelda_series

  9. avatar
    helen March 8, 2014 at 4:40 pm #

    Well, you can read the Molokai fire department report, and you can count the people in the water, and you can see the problems with the time lines and the reports from all of the people.

    But that will not satisfy anyone about anything.

    But, the interesting thing is that none, that I am aware of, the passengers have given interviews about it.

    I would have expected those passengers to be willing to discuss the accident with great detail.

    But,then again, they have have, but the informtion was not broadcast.

    But, if you have flown, you know the routine, pilot says brace yourself, and you lean forward toward your knees and prepare to kiss your ass goodbye, but none of those passengers did that, did they?

    I wonder why!

  10. avatar
    bovril March 8, 2014 at 7:22 pm #

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noddy_(character)

    Nonsense any fool can see it is in fact Noddy in his NoddyMobile…..

    In fact, the cast of characters has an uncanny resemblence to the cast of Birthers

    PC Plod, Mr Wobbly Man you decide……y,

  11. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 8, 2014 at 7:28 pm #

    At least two have given interviews. See the video linked in my article. You need a heightened awareness.

    helen: But, the interesting thing is that none, that I am aware of, the passengers have given interviews about it.

  12. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 8, 2014 at 8:20 pm #

    helen: But, the interesting thing is that none, that I am aware of, the passengers have given interviews about it.

    I would have expected those passengers to be willing to discuss the accident with great detail.

    But,then again, they have have, but the informtion was not broadcast.

    Or…….you just didn’t take a couple minutes to view the video in this piece (where two of them are interviewed) or to Google something like “Fuddy plane crash survivors” where a third one popped up in the first hit:

    http://westhawaiitoday.com/news/state-wire/survivor-recounts-plane-crash-killed-fuddy

    But wait…there’s more. A couple stories down is this one with two more survivors:

    http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/exclusive-2-survivors-in-molokai-plane-crash-speak-out/23461364

    There could be more but I figured by the time I found five of the eight survivors that was enough for right now.

    So….why didn’t you watch the video or do a quick search before posting your nonsense about nobody talking?

    helen: But, if you have flown, you know the routine, pilot says brace yourself, and you lean forward toward your knees and prepare to kiss your ass goodbye, but none of those passengers did that, did they?

    Yes, Helen, I’ve flown…..somewhere north of a quarter million miles last count but I’ve never been in a crash landing like this. How about you?

    More than a few of those miles were in small commuter planes like this one and it is my recollection that there wasn’t room between the seats to put your head down so you were told to brace against the seat in front of you……just like the people in the video were doing.

    helen: I wonder why!

    What I wonder is why you are willing to make such a fool of yourself in public.

  13. avatar
    Punchmaster via mobile March 8, 2014 at 8:34 pm #

    Go home Helen, you’re drunk.

  14. avatar
    RanTalbott March 8, 2014 at 10:09 pm #

    JPotter: Doesn’t seem like the best choice of headgear for an underwater working environment.

    Oh, sun protection is very important in the waters around Hawaii: I went snorkeling when I was on vacation there. I took the advice to wear a T-shirt, even though I thought it was kinda silly. It wasn’t: for many days after I returned to the mainland, the backs of my legs looked like I’d been trapped in a paint booth on a fire truck assembly line.

    Professional assassins generally being very careful people, it would make sense that they took every precaution.

    Plus the hat is very useful for concealing your face when passing security cameras. It works wiithout fail on the TV cop shows, just as long as you avoid looking at shiny surfaces within view of the camera.

  15. avatar
    RanTalbott March 8, 2014 at 10:38 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: You need a heightened awareness.

    Or just ordinary awareness. Baby steps…

  16. avatar
    RanTalbott March 8, 2014 at 10:42 pm #

    bovril: Nonsense any fool can see it is in fact Noddy in his NoddyMobile

    Is that supposed to be a metaphor for Obama? He‘s been on trial over 200 times, and has been judged to be the President, but still hasn’t convinced everybody he’s a good one.

  17. avatar
    John Reilly March 8, 2014 at 11:52 pm #

    Helen, you remain an idiot. The number of times airlines ask passengers to brace themselves is rare. I’ve had it happen exactly once and I’ve got more than 10,000 flight hours (as a pilot) and more than a million miles on commercial flights. You’ve been watching re-runs of Airport.

    The one time? The de-icing system failed on a Delta flight and we had ice build up on the wings. We made a hot landing into a closed airport with unplowed runways.

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 8, 2014 at 11:58 pm #

    Reminds me of “get in crash positions” from Airplane.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5QBuJla5do

    John Reilly: You’ve been watching re-runs of Airport.

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 9, 2014 at 12:12 am #

    You may have flown a few more miles than I, but I have the distinction of one of the few human beings alive who actually read the safety information card.

    Brace Positions

    CarlOrcas: More than a few of those miles were in small commuter planes like this one and it is my recollection that there wasn’t room between the seats to put your head down so you were told to brace against the seat in front of you……just like the people in the video were doing.

  20. avatar
    RanTalbott March 9, 2014 at 12:26 am #

    John Reilly: I’ve got more than 10,000 flight hours (as a pilot)

    Perhaps you can answer this burning question: is it not almost certainly the case that the alarm heard in the video is the stall warning, resulting from the pilot deliberately stalling the plane so its tail would hit first, reducing the risk of it going ass-over-teakettle? It seems to me that simple physics says it’s much more likely that the plane would’ve flipped if he’d let a more-forward part of the plane touch down first.

    That would make the alarm “a sign of a clever solution”, rather than the “sign of trouble” the newscasters made it out to be.

  21. avatar
    RanTalbott March 9, 2014 at 12:32 am #

    Geez, what kind of uncultured clods make the ballerina fly in the seat with no back? Are they trying to ruin her next night’s performance?

  22. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 9, 2014 at 12:33 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    You may have flown a few more miles than I, but I have the distinction of one of the few human beings alive who actually read the safety information card.

    LOL!! Any sissy can read the instructions!

  23. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater March 9, 2014 at 12:43 am #

    CarlOrcas: LOL!! Any sissy can read the instructions!

    http://www.airtoons.com/

    Read the captions on the pictures.

  24. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG March 9, 2014 at 1:09 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Reminds me of “get in crash positions” from Airplane.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5QBuJla5do

    Airplane wasn’t so much a comedy, as it was a Public Service Announcement.

  25. avatar
    helen March 9, 2014 at 1:54 am #

    Well, I have landed in the water a number of times, but never in a crash sitution, I flew in Duck and PBY’s , SNJ, SBD’ UJ’s , TBMs , TBD’s, SB2U’s, DC2’s, Howards, Beech’s, Staggerwings,
    One forced landing , one engine out, and yes, we braced against the forward bulkhead of a UJ (B26)
    One Ground Loop, SNJ
    Never as a pilot!

    The real question in my mind, is why did the pilot not radio the problem that landed him in the water, Try not to tell me he was too busy! Or that the radio wan’t working.

    8 survivors and two interviews? Pilot, and Puentes?

    No court actions yet?

    Strange,

    yes , I have looked at the videos and wondered why they were so chopped up. Camera up and running for 20 minute or so, and they how one minute of the video.

  26. avatar
    Steve March 9, 2014 at 3:06 am #

    What is Extortion 17?

  27. avatar
    RanTalbott March 9, 2014 at 3:44 am #

    Steve: What is Extortion 17?

    I believe that’s the sequel to “Debbie Does Dallas”, in which the cheerleading squad makes it to Dallas, and tries to rig the contest by having their underage members seduce the judges and make videos of the results.

    Or maybe it’s the 7th movie in the “Oceans” trilogy (hey, it worked for Douglas Adams and George Lucas). The team is tired of pulling off elaborate and risky cons, so Danny says “Okay, to hell with it. This time, we go the easy way: we’ll just build a big*$%&ing bomb and threaten to blow them up if they don’t give us the money”.

  28. avatar
    Keith March 9, 2014 at 7:32 am #

    RanTalbott: Perhaps you can answer this burning question: is it not almost certainly the case that the alarm heard in the video is the stall warning,

    Always sounded like the Star Trek (original series) Red Alert klaxon to me. But I never bothered to compare them.

  29. avatar
    JPotter March 9, 2014 at 9:31 am #

    RanTalbott: Oh, sun protection is very important in the waters around Hawaii: I went snorkeling when I was on vacation there.

    Sun protection is always important out on the water! But the nuts aren’t claiming a snorkeler was out there, they’re claiming a SCUBA diver was in the water. I sure hope that floppy hat was strapped on tight.

    I’d think this was more the birfers speed anyway:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Tritonia_Lusitania_1935.jpg

  30. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 9, 2014 at 11:18 am #

    helen: The real question in my mind, is why did the pilot not radio the problem that landed him in the water, Try not to tell me he was too busy! Or that the radio wan’t working.

    How much time between the engine failure and the water landing?

    What is your explanation for why he didn’t radio?

    helen: 8 survivors and two interviews? Pilot, and Puentes?

    Five….not two. I gave you links to all of them in this message http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2014/03/fuddy-offed-by-flotsam/#comment-318171 Why didn’t you look at them?

    helen: No court actions yet?

    Strange,

    Why?

    helen: yes , I have looked at the videos and wondered why they were so chopped up. Camera up and running for 20 minute or so, and they how one minute of the video.

    It’s called editing…..for time. It’s done with all stories.

  31. avatar
    MN-Skeptic March 9, 2014 at 11:43 am #

    There is a fairly long, detailed report of the crash landing at Ferdinand Puentes’ Facebook page – My Kalaupapa Plane Crash Experience. He includes still pictures from the video he took.

    If you also look at Puentes’ Facebook Timeline page, scrolling to 1/29/14, you’ll see he has a link to Butterdezillion’s blog. He and his friends are amazed and amused at BDZ’s manipulation with the photos. They basically call her crazy.

  32. avatar
    John Reilly March 9, 2014 at 11:48 am #

    RanTalbott: Perhaps you can answer this burning question: is it not almost certainly the case that the alarm heard in the video is the stall warning, resulting from the pilot deliberately stalling the plane so its tail would hit first, reducing the risk of it going ass-over-teakettle? It seems to me that simple physics says it’s much more likely that the plane would’ve flipped if he’d let a more-forward part of the plane touch down first.

    That would make the alarm “a sign of a clever solution”, rather than the “sign of trouble” the newscasters made it out to be.

    Generally speaking, it’s a bad idea to stall the plane as you lose all control. As Captain Sullenberger demonstrated, one can fly a plane without power without stalling and have a good outcome.

  33. avatar
    John Reilly March 9, 2014 at 11:53 am #

    helen: The real question in my mind, is why did the pilot not radio the problem that landed him in the water, Try not to tell me he was too busy! Or that the radio wan’t working.

    The three things a pilot does are (1) aviate, that is, fly the plane, (2) navigate, that is, figure out where you want to go, and (3) communicate, that is, tell folks on the ground what is going on. In any number of accidents the pilot is far too busy with 1 and 2 to take time out to call the tower and speak to people who can’t help with 1 and 2.

    Helen, you remain a liar. It appears to me you copied a list of planes from Wikipedia. You should stick to submarines.

  34. avatar
    John Reilly March 9, 2014 at 12:12 pm #

    Ran, I don’t want to avoid your question as to whether we can hear a stall warning. I have investigated a number of accidents in which a stall warning is heard. What we do is isolate the sound, confirm with the manufacturer and investigators what equipment was on the plane, and then compare that sound, both by ear and by computer analysis to the sound from another sample of that equipment. Neither I nor my firm is working on this accident, so the answer is that I do not know.

    I’ve heard the stall warning on planes I flew as one thing you do is practice what to do to recover from a stall. Yet when I served on boards investigating an accident we still went through a very thorough drill in comparing the sound on the recorder with a reference sample. In my business, no one jumps to any conclusions.

  35. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 9, 2014 at 12:15 pm #

    helen: The real question in my mind, is why did the pilot not radio the problem that landed him in the water, Try not to tell me he was too busy! Or that the radio wan’t working.

    Sorry….but I have to: He was too busy.

    See Ferdinand Puentes Facebook page provide by MN-Skeptic where Puentes says:

    “Mind you that it took around 30 seconds from an altitude from in my opinion approximately 1,000-1,500ft to impact into the ocean.”

    So….given your vast experience tell us just exactly what you would have done during those 30-seconds?

  36. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 9, 2014 at 12:29 pm #

    John Reilly: The three things a pilot does are (1) aviate, that is, fly the plane, (2) navigate, that is, figure out where you want to go, and (3) communicate, that is, tell folks on the ground what is going on. In any number of accidents the pilot is far too busy with 1 and 2 to take time out to call the tower and speak to people who can’t help with 1 and 2.

    In looking at a sidebar story on the missing Malaysian Air plane that dealt with similar situations in the past I was struck by how many of them noted that there was no communication from the plane before it disappeared.

    Your explanation certainly makes sense to me.

  37. avatar
    John Reilly March 9, 2014 at 1:20 pm #

    CarlOrcas: In looking at a sidebar story on the missing Malaysian Air plane that dealt with similar situations in the past I was struck by how many of them noted that there was no communication from the plane before it disappeared.

    Your explanation certainly makes sense to me.

    In the Air France accident, the plane flew for a number of minutes while the crew struggled to figure out what was going on. While the aircraft itself sent messages to Air France, the crew made no attempt to communicate. The pilot of Ms. Fuddy’s plane had a much shorter time in which to aviate and navigate.

    I’m confident to a moral certainty that had the pilot radioed in his distress Mr. Helen would find that suspicious.

  38. avatar
    bgansel9 March 9, 2014 at 1:55 pm #

    helen: Never as a pilot!

    The real question in my mind, is why did the pilot not radio the problem that landed him in the water, Try not to tell me he was too busy! Or that the radio wan’t working.

    So, a person who was never a pilot wants to suggest that a pilot might not be busy with an out of control aircraft? It’s not like anyone could have died or anything, huh? He was just kicking back, enjoying his ride? You are delusional!

  39. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 9, 2014 at 2:27 pm #

    John Reilly: I’m confident to a moral certainty that had the pilot radioed in his distress Mr. Helen would find that suspicious.

    Yes.

  40. avatar
    y_p_w March 9, 2014 at 3:56 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Thanks,

    I wonder how an inflatable dummy fooled the medical examiner who did Fuddy’s autopsy.

    Strictly from a technical standpoint, I don’t think Maui County has a medical examiner. Maui is 100% unincorporated and the Maui Police Department would have the same duties as a county sheriff. They work with private pathologists when they need an autopsy. I heard they bought/remodeled a new government building to store bodies and conduct autopsies, but I don’t think the pathologists are strictly government employees.

    We have a similar setup in several California counties. There’s actually one big pathology practice that handles autopsies for about a dozen counties. Some counties have at least one dedicated pathologist on their staff. However, this company has its own facility.

  41. avatar
    RanTalbott March 9, 2014 at 5:00 pm #

    helen: The real question in my mind, is why did the pilot not radio the problem that landed him in the water,

    No, that’s not a real question. As with most birfers, the real question is the one that’s begged: “DID he radio in the problem?”. According to at least one news report at the time (possibly correct, possibly not), he did: he had the radio on the frequency the airline uses to communicate with company HQ, and told his boss they had engine problems. He was probably too busy saving the passengers to switch to the distress frequency and send out a mayday

    helen: 8 survivors and two interviews?

    Begging again: you’d already been told your assumption was wrong.

    helen: No court actions yet?

    We’re still 3-4 months away from the projected date for the engine analysis report. NTSB will probably take a month or two after that to finalize their report. Maybe the passengers simply are a bunch of stupid loons, like birfers, who jump to conclusions based on rumor and speculation, and decided to get their fats straight before acting.

  42. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) March 10, 2014 at 4:57 am #

    helen: and you can see the problems with the time lines and the reports from all of the people

    You know “two witnesses, three versions of the story”? It even happens in much less dangerous circumstances (e.g. pedestrians witnessing a car accident).

    In fact, it’s again Catch-22. If the witnesses don’t tell precisely the same story, it means they lie. If the witnesses tell precisely the same story it means they were coached to tell it exactly this way. You can never “win” this game with conspiracy believers.

    You played the same game with the pilot. He didn’t send a distress signal, nefarious reason, “no way he didn’t have the time”. He sent a distress signal, nefarious reason, “no way he could’ve had the time during a crash”.

    It makes no sense arguing with you about this.

  43. avatar
    RanTalbott March 10, 2014 at 5:03 pm #

    John Reilly: Ran, I don’t want to avoid your question as to whether we can hear a stall warning

    I get thatyou don’t want to offer something that someone might misconstrue as “a professional opinion” about that. But a poster on another forum, who claimed to be a pilot with time on type, said he recognized it as such. So let’s just assume that, arguendo.

    My questions are really about the physics, and standard procedures: are pilots trained, in such a situation, to try to “drag the tail” to reduce the odds of the nose digging in and causing the plane to flip? And isn’t bringing the nose up just before impact (which I _think_ constitutes a “stall”) the way to do that?

  44. avatar
    John Reilly March 11, 2014 at 1:39 am #

    RanTalbott: I get thatyou don’t want to offer something that someone might misconstrue as “a professional opinion” about that. But a poster on another forum, who claimed to be a pilot with time on type, said he recognized it as such. So let’s just assume that, arguendo.

    My questions are really about the physics, and standard procedures: are pilots trained, in such a situation, to try to “drag the tail” to reduce the odds of the nose digging in and causing the plane to flip? And isn’t bringing the nose up just before impact (which I _think_ constitutes a “stall”) the way to do that?

    Most aircraft are designed to land with the nose slightly elevated above the horizontal. In other words, you do not put your nose wheel down first. If you have sufficient control this is not difficult. Dragging the tail is not trained; you lose some control. Putting the nose gear down first is a bad idea. You land on the main gear, which is designed to hold the weight of the aircraft, and rotate to horizontal. Now in a smaller plane the engineering of the nose gear makes it stronger relative to the weight of the plane than in a wide-body. If you put a 777 down on its nose gear first, you are going to have a broken nose gear.

    Bringing the nose up will reduce air speed. It only leads to a stall if the aircraft’s speed is reduced below stall speed. The speed at which any aircraft will stall is in a range. For example, the Asiana plane which crashed in San Francisco was apparently below stall speed and did not stall. I’m still reviewing the available data from that accident.

    Yes, the sound heard on the video is consistent with a stall warning. There are various devices and sounds available. That sound is one of them. Whether that sound came from a stall warning on the plane is not known to me. Theoretically, the pilot could have glided some distance and landed safely in the water without ever slowing down and stalling. I don’t know enough about that accident to have a good opinion on what happened, and I understand (but am not sure) that there were no black boxes so we will lack essential data to fully understand the accident.

    In my line of work, we try not to jump to conclusions. I’ve been over to Dr. Taitz’s site where she is quick to jump to conclusions about the missing 777. She now trumpets that there is increasing evidence that the transponder was turned off. There is, in fact, no evidence of that. All we know is that ground radar stopped receiving transponder signals. We do not know why. It is possible we may never know why.