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The Cold Case Posse’s six figures (retracted)

This article has been retracted.

It turns out that the 3,000 figure discussed is for all of the MCSO Posse’s and TPPTRUTHSQUAD was mistaken. Brian Reilly says that he personally didn’t pay any dues.

 ————————– Retracted content follows —————————-

Birtherverse-shattering conclusion

There was a part of Brian Reilly’s article that I wasn’t sure I understood:

I was chosen by Zullo over 3,000 existing Posse members.

I thought maybe Reilly was referring to all of Sheriff Joe’s posse members (there are many different posses) although that’s not what he said. But then I was reading something from another alleged insider, TPPTRUTHSQUAD,  posting in comments here who claimed:

I’m certain the 3,000+ members of the CCP will verify your claim of their being thrown under the bus.

A little history

Some time back a request was made to the Cold Case Posse for its IRS filings and determination letter, which it is by law required to provide. Mike Zullo, after dodging my registered letter, did eventually respond to someone else. In that response some private information was redacted (not allowed, but understandable) and not cause for a red flag. However, after my own request failed I applied to the IRS to get a copy from them, which they provided. In addition to unredacted names and addresses, the IRS provided an entire page that the Cold Case Posse for some reason omitted. I wrote about that page in my article, “Cold Case Posse screws the IRS (genetally speaking).” I’ll reproduce the page following for reference:

A little math

Now at the time, that didn’t set off many flags either, except from the spell checker, but in the light of this new information, it’s stunning. If there are indeed 3,000 Cold Case Posse members each paying $100 a year in dues, that comes to $300,000 annually and over the time the CCP has been in high gear, we’re talking about somewhere between half a million and a million dollars in membership dues! This staggering sum is on top of whatever donations the CCP receives from PayPal clicks on its web site and from other sources. Remember, that the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office has officially declared in a letter to me that they have no information about CCP finances. They don’t report them to the IRS because they are tax exempt from all reporting as a governmental auxiliary.

If this is the kind of money involved, then it certainly explains Mike Zullo continuing to hype his future revelations on the radio week after week. Indeed, this information is so stunning that I’m not sure I believe it (but I did check the math). Is this the second Birtherverse-shattering reveal for March?

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78 Responses to The Cold Case Posse’s six figures (retracted)

  1. avatar
    Sterngard Friegen March 12, 2014 at 12:37 am #

    I tend to doubt the 3,000 figure. 50 sounds about right to me.

  2. avatar
    mimi March 12, 2014 at 12:38 am #

    Number looks right.

    “It was just a training exercise, but the situation is every parent’s worst nightmare, which is why controversial Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Ariz., has called on his all-volunteer sheriff posse — 3,000 civilians strong — to keep Maricopa County kids safe. ”
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/sheriff-joe-arpaios-answer-school-safety-armed-civilian/story?id=18872544

    “Arpaio once told me he got the idea for these so-called posses from watching Western movies as a kid. He claims to have the biggest posse in the world, numbering about 3,000 volunteers, and says about 500 of them are armed, some with automatic weapons. His office won’t provide data backing these claims.”
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/09/arizona-sheriff-joe-arpaio-to-send-armed-posses-to-protect-schools.html

    and a bunch more.

  3. avatar
    Thinker March 12, 2014 at 12:40 am #

    Why would 3000 people pay $100 to belong to an organization that never did anything until this birther investigation? And what does it mean to be a posse member? Are all those people walking around with fake badges, pretending to be law enforcement?

    This whole posse thing sounds like a scam that has a lot of potential to attract unsavory people and foster corruption.

  4. avatar
    bgansel9 March 12, 2014 at 12:50 am #

    Thinker: This whole posse thing sounds like a scam that has a lot of potential to attract unsavory people and foster corruption.

    It has attracted unsavory people. Most recently one of them was caught with a whole lot of child pornography: http://www.azcentral.com/community/surprise/articles/20140307former-mcso-posse-member-arrested-child-porn-charges-abrk.html

    I am not surprised that it would also breed corruption.

    Also, Arpaio started the posse program back in 1993 to police shopping malls. The CCP seems to be developed to deal with Obama’s Birth Certificate though.

  5. avatar
    Arthur March 12, 2014 at 12:55 am #

    Thinker: Why would 3000 people pay $100 to belong to an organization that never did anything until this birther investigation?

    I don’t know. But never underestimating the willingness of fools to part with their money, has made many people very rich.

  6. avatar
    mimi March 12, 2014 at 1:06 am #

    Joe recruits posse members once a month. Here’s the website for his program:
    http://www.mcso.org/About/Posse.aspx

    there was a dispute about the county insignia on the vehicles. The posse won:
    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/10/sheriffs_posse_vehicles_may_re.php

  7. avatar
    bgansel9 March 12, 2014 at 1:09 am #

    bgansel9: The CCP seems to be developed to deal with Obama’s Birth Certificate though.

    Ran Talbott informs me that the CCP was developed about five years before the birther investigation began, but that it wasn’t really utilized until then. (on the other related thread).

  8. avatar
    justlw March 12, 2014 at 1:25 am #

    A Google search for “genetally” puts obamaconspiracy.org as the #3 result, trailing only a page that actually defines the word “genetically”, and a site called “B-Rhymes” that Google apparently loves so much that its report that it, in fact, does not know the word “genetally” shoots it up to the number 2 position.

  9. avatar
    RanTalbott March 12, 2014 at 1:41 am #

    Thinker: Why would 3000 people pay $100 to belong to an organization that never did anything until this birther investigation?

    They wouldn’t.

    And they don’t: that 3000 figure is, clearly, the total for all of Shurf Joe’s many posses (I believe the number CarlOrcas mentioned the other day was in the range of a couple of dozen. Edit: just checked the recruiting link someone posted. It lists 68 of them).

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that even the 50 claimed in the IRS letter was an exaggeration (although it’s credible that there are that many retired cops and CSIs in the area who’d like to work on a really tough cold case or two each year as a hobby).

    I’m a little shocked to see all this bootless speculation springing from an unsubstantiated claim by a pseudonymous birfer. Do a search-and-replace on a few words and phrases, and it’d fit right in at BR.

  10. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 1:44 am #

    Sterngard Friegen:
    I tend to doubt the 3,000 figure. 50 sounds about right to me.

    I agree. The three thousand figure has always been for all the posses……50 according to this website:

    http://www.mcsoposse.org/

    The splash page contains this: If you would like to join several thousand volunteers in helping the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office, please see the Information page for details on how to get started.

  11. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 2:01 am #

    Thinker:
    Why would 3000 people pay $100 to belong to an organization that never did anything until this birther investigation? And what does it mean to be a posse member? Are all those people walking around with fake badges, pretending to be law enforcement?

    This whole posse thing sounds like a scam that has a lot of potential to attract unsavory people and foster corruption.

    There are not 3,000 people in the Cold Case Posse. That number is for all posses…..50 of them.

    And, yes, they have always had some cop wannabes who caused problems but the active ones…..search, rescue and the retirement community posses….do a good job and perform a valuable community service.

    I posted the financial info for the two Sun City possses yesterday. They are legit. Here is their info again plus the other retirement community posse for Sun Lakes in the southeast valley:

    http://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/510178773

    http://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/860370287

    http://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/860586980

  12. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 2:18 am #

    Doc,

    I guarantee you that there aren’t 3,000 people in the Cold Case Posse.

    When Mr. Reilly says “I was chosen by Zullo over 3,000 existing Posse members.” and he’s just wrong if he is now claiming he meant Cold Case Posse members.

    In fact here is documentation that he was there at the creation…..a 2011 WND story, linked to from the Cold Case Posse website (http://www.mcsoccp.org/joomla/) , written by Jerome Corsi complete with pictures of Mr.and Mrs. Reilly, Corsi and the Sheriff.

    http://www.wnd.com/2011/09/346201/

    Down a ways there are several pertinent statements:

    “Arpaio explained to WND that there are over 3,000 people who participate in his office’s volunteer posse program.”
    And……….

    “Sources within the sheriff’s office explained to WND that the Cold Case Posse has been constituted as a 501(c)3 organization – separately organized within the 3,000-member volunteer posse – enabling people from around the country to contribute to its mission.”

    I’ll put my money on the Cold Case Posse still not having more than five members.

    How much money it has, or has had, is another matter.

  13. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 2:22 am #

    bgansel9: Ran Talbott informs me that the CCP was developed about five years before the birther investigation began, but that it wasn’t really utilized until then. (on the other related thread).

    Here’s the “About” information from the website listed above:

    About CCP

    Print
    Email

    In October of 2006, Sheriff Arpaio ordered the creation of the MCSO Cold Case Posse (CCP). The purpose of the CCP was to assist in the investigation of Cold Case Homicides. Since its inception, the CCP has been placed under the guidance and control of The General Investigation Division’s Homicide Squad (GID).

    The creation of the CCP was a unique departure from the role that the general Posse system has been accustomed to, serving as a direct support to the Patrol Division of the Office. The CCP is the first posse to work directly for and under the supervision the General Investigation Division (GID).

    We are a 501c3 charitable corporation. We support the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office at NO ADDITIONAL EXPENSE to the taxpayers as we are solely supported by contributions and from our members’ financial support.

    The MCSO Cold Case Posse consists of hand selected individuals with diverse skills consisting of professional experiences in conducting investigations, including individuals with backgrounds in Law Enforcement, Insurance Investigations, Military, Computer Information Systems, as well as lawyers who have participated in criminal and or civil cases.

  14. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 2:27 am #

    bgansel9: Ran Talbott informs me that the CCP was developed about five years before the birther investigation began, but that it wasn’t really utilized until then. (on the other related thread).

    That’s about right.

    As it regards other posses they date back many years, many decades. How they were organized I don’t know but I recall them in the 1950’s. The Sun City Posse says it was organized in 1973.

  15. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 2:33 am #

    bgansel9: Also, Arpaio started the posse program back in 1993 to police shopping malls.

    See my note above…..the posses have been around a long time….long before Arpaio rode into town.

    You’re right, though, the shopping center posse (with the Mounted Posse) was his first big stunt.

  16. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 2:36 am #

    RanTalbott: I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find out that even the 50 claimed in the IRS letter was an exaggeration (although it’s credible that there are that many retired cops and CSIs in the area who’d like to work on a really tough cold case or two each year as a hobby).

    Retired officers join the reserves so they can retain their POST certification which they can’t do in the posse. Over the years I have known several officers who did just that, including working investigations when they were short handed.

  17. avatar
    Publius March 12, 2014 at 3:24 am #

    Personally, I think this whole chain of thought is a distraction from a bigger issue: How much money, in fact, has the CCP raised, and how has it been spent? Have laws been violated here? And where’s the financial transparency and accountability?

  18. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 3:29 am #

    Publius:
    Personally, I think this whole chain of thought is a distraction from a bigger issue: How much money, in fact, has the CCP raised, and how has it been spent? Have laws been violated here? And where’s the financial transparency and accountability?

    You are right on all counts!

  19. avatar
    bgansel9 March 12, 2014 at 5:01 am #

    Okay so we’ve come to the conclusion that there are not 3,000 CCP members. My question regarding the math:

    Why do they state that as a 501(c)(3) they are not to take in more than $25,000 in annual income/receipts and yet they state below that statement that they earn their income through dues of $100 from each member of which there are 50. Does that not add up to $50,000 (twice the limit set in the 501(c)(3) stipulation, and then go on to state that they are a government affiliated agency (considering their activity, is that really true? Does picking apart the anomalies of an image copied in a Xerox machine sound like policing?). The income earned is double what is allowable and the activity they are involved in seems much more political than enforcing laws. What policing are they doing? Where are they performing these operations?

  20. avatar
    Lupin March 12, 2014 at 6:30 am #

    I keep picturing the Beagle Boys (from Carl Barks’ UNCLE SCROOGE comics) in my mind every time I read about the so-called Posse.

  21. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 6:40 am #

    bgansel9: Why do they state that as a 501(c)(3) they are not to take in more than $25,000 in annual income/receipts and yet they state below that statement that they earn their income through dues of $100 from each member of which there are 50. Does that not add up to $50,000 (twice the limit set in the 501(c)(3) stipulation, and then go on to state that they are a government affiliated agency (considering their activity, is that really true?

    First, the figures are just part of the application to the IRS…..not a business plan. And 50 x 100 does equal 5,000.

    And, no they are not part of a government agency. None of the other posses ever claimed that for their operation and, of course, Arpaio says they aren’t a part of the MCSO.

    bgansel9: What policing are they doing? Where are they performing these operations?

    First, none of the posses do “policing” because they aren’t police, because they don’t have any police powers or authority and the cold case posse is no different.

    Theoretically they should be performing whatever duties they have within the county or, at most, the State of Arizona, but as we’ve seen the Cold Case Posse knows no boundaries.

  22. avatar
    Keith March 12, 2014 at 6:51 am #

    CarlOrcas: Theoretically they should be performing whatever duties they have within the county or, at most, the State of Arizona, but as we’ve seen the Cold Case Posse knows no boundaries

    Well UCOS went to Glasgow and Gibraltar, so…

  23. avatar
    mimi March 12, 2014 at 7:33 am #

    I didn’t read it well enough. *ashamed*

    I didn’t see it was just the Cold Cuts Posse who were paying dues.

    I’m gonna go have some coffee now.

  24. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 12, 2014 at 8:48 am #

    This article has been retracted.

  25. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 9:01 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    This article has been retracted.

    Good for you, Doc.

  26. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG March 12, 2014 at 9:16 am #

    3000?
    I dunno. Maybe if they brought in every birther from every state, and you pad the number with people who aren’t actually birthers, but would say anything to make that scary black man in the white house go away, you MIGHT get around 3000.

  27. avatar
    Nathan March 12, 2014 at 10:03 am #

    Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

  28. avatar
    Jim March 12, 2014 at 10:07 am #

    Nathan:
    Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

    Shouldn’t you be telling Zullo about getting HIS facts straight before having a news conference or 2 and looking like a fool? :D

  29. avatar
    bgansel9 March 12, 2014 at 10:09 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: I dunno. Maybe if they brought in every birther from every state

    It would be every member of every posse in Maricopa County, and I’m sure if necessary, I could round up more than that many crazy birhers in Maricopa county (although finding crazy birthers in Maricopa County who were all posse members might be a bit more challenging… a bit, not a lot), but I also agree that the 3,000 sounded crazy. I was going by the admissions of the STPP troll (that’s what I get for listening to a troll). I followed the lead, and I didn’t speak up when I thought that number was really high. I agree this retraction was a good thing.

  30. avatar
    bgansel9 March 12, 2014 at 10:17 am #

    CarlOrcas: First, the figures are just part of the application to the IRS…..not a business plan. And 50 x 100 does equal 5,000.

    I shouldn’t post on no sleep and especially after I have just locked my keys in the car. Thanks.

    When I said policing, I didn’t mean doing so with actual authority, I meant assisting, they are assisting the police and that (to me) is a sort of policing. It is doing the duties of police without authority. I have seen some the websites with the pictures of the types of things they do – roadblocks, assisting in accidents, etc… I have also read the story of the posse member who got shot. What I would call his activity that morning would be policing, (without authority, of course).

  31. avatar
    Bovril March 12, 2014 at 10:29 am #

    Nathan:
    Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

    So “Nathan”, have you ever seen on ANY birfoon site a retraction when the blog owner got something demonstrably wrong…..Say….Orlys’s or BirtherReport or WND or…….

    I rest my case

  32. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater March 12, 2014 at 10:56 am #

    Nathan:
    Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

    At least he has the decency to print retractions. Birthers dont do that.

  33. avatar
    The Magic M March 12, 2014 at 11:00 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: This article has been retracted.

    Tomorrow’s BR headline: “The retracting begins; Obots backpedaling on their claims; Obama ineligible”

    (NB. It seems for some time now BR uses a variant of WND’s misleading headline tricks. Instead of the “cosmetic question mark” – allowing them to make statements like “Democrats consider Obama ineligible?” -, they use semicolons to try to invoke the impression different statements inherently belong together, such as “Democrat Senator demands impeachment; Obama ineligible” which tries to allude a Democratic senator considers Obama ineligible”.)

    Incidentally, I watched “The Discovery Dissipation” (S07E10 of The Big Bang Theory) the other day where Sheldon Cooper had to retract a scientific article.

    Barry Kripke:Cooper, maybe physics just isn’t your thing. Have you ever considered a career in retail? Then you could take things back for a living.

  34. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 11:23 am #

    Nathan:
    Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

    Every organization makes mistakes. The responsible ones fess up and correct the record.

  35. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 12, 2014 at 11:36 am #

    Obots: 1) We speculate that this (fill in the blank) may have happened. Based on these assumptions, which are only that.

    2) On further examination, our speculative conclusions were incorrect. We retract them.

    Birthers: 1) WE ARE ABSOLUTELY 1000% POSITIVE THIS (fill in blank) HAPPENED, AND WE’RE MAD AS HELL ABOUT IT! DICTATOR! USURPER! COMMUNIST! ANTICHRIST!

    (at this point research discovers that can’t possibly have happened. from sources so credible that even sane Republicans grudgingly agree)

    2) YOU’RE ALL LIARS! HOW DARE YOU PERSECUTE US FOR OUR BELIEFS?!!! WE RETRACT NOTHING! WHEN THE TRUTH COMES OUT* YOU’LL BE SORRY!

    *any… day… now……

  36. avatar
    Majority Will March 12, 2014 at 12:22 pm #

    Nathan:
    Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

    Try decaf.

  37. avatar
    Nathan March 12, 2014 at 12:32 pm #

    Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove. How many more things have been shared that you can’t prove? This one retraction is only the tip of the iceberg. The fact you had to retract this just goes to show that I can’t trust the things you post. Why? Because the reason why you retracted it is because someone brought it to your attention, not because you did the research yourself, like a responsible person would do.

  38. avatar
    Jim March 12, 2014 at 12:44 pm #

    Nathan:
    Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove.

    I see you’re another birther waiting for Zullo…who will never come through. How much has he proven…nothing. BTW nathan, have you donated to the Zullo retirement fund pretending to be a faux investigation?

  39. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 12:44 pm #

    Nathan: Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove.

    Such as?

  40. avatar
    Crustacean March 12, 2014 at 12:48 pm #

    Nathan: Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove.

    Name one thing that Zullo has proven that furthered the birther cause.

  41. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater March 12, 2014 at 12:55 pm #

    Nathan:
    Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove. How many more things have been shared that you can’t prove? This one retraction is only the tip of the iceberg. The fact you had to retract this just goes to show that I can’t trust the things you post. Why? Because the reason why you retracted it is because someone brought it to your attention, not because you did the research yourself, like a responsible person would do.

    Are you telling jokes now? Zullo only shares stuff that he can’t prove. Why didn’t he retract the race code claims where he claimed the codes from 1968 were from 1961? This caused a rift between Zullo and Jerome Corsi and to date Zullo hasn’t retracted it. He also hasn’t retracted his claim that hawaii must be lying or that they never verified the birth certificate. Are you really this stupid? So because one doesn’t retract stuff they know is a lie that somehow makes them trustworthy in your mind.

  42. avatar
    Arthur March 12, 2014 at 12:58 pm #

    Nathan: Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove.

    Good for him. I’ve been wondering why he won’t release his “universe-shattering” information. It must be that it’s full of holes and he can’t prove it.

  43. avatar
    jayHG March 12, 2014 at 1:12 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote to Nathan The Gulible Birther: “So because one doesn’t retract stuff they know is a lie that somehow makes them trustworthy in your mind.”

    Nathan’s a birther….of course it does….

  44. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 1:14 pm #

    Keith: UCOS

    Hmm….maybe Zullo is planning on a TV show. Maybe their own channel once Arpaio retires?

  45. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund March 12, 2014 at 1:16 pm #

    Nathan:
    Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

    You’re right, one should never assume that a birther is telling the truth. I do note that Doc C. did express skepticism throughout the original piece.

  46. avatar
    Majority Will March 12, 2014 at 1:27 pm #

    Nathan: Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove.

    Thanks for the laugh. That was adorable.

    You should consider getting direct deposit for paying Super, Super Special Lieutenant In Charge Zullo. ;-)

  47. avatar
    Rickey March 12, 2014 at 1:30 pm #

    Nathan:
    Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

    Everybody makes mistakes. One difference between this blog and birther blogs is that when we inadvertently post something which isn’t correct, we acknowledge it and post a correction. That is a concept which is alien to birthers.

  48. avatar
    RanTalbott March 12, 2014 at 1:31 pm #

    Nathan: Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove.

    Zullo has not offered a shred of admissible evidence to support ANY of the accusations against he’s made against Obama. And I’m not aware of any of them that has not been proven false, to at least a level that would prevail in a civil suit. And most “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

  49. avatar
    mimi March 12, 2014 at 1:43 pm #

    Doc might have retracted the article, but I still hope somebody looks into the issue. From what I read, all the posses have membership dues. Some just $25/year. And the last estimate I read (about a year ago) was 3,500 members.

    And who gets cars? And which posse members get to put the county insignia on their vehicle, and why?

    Are the posse members pretending to be cops? Flashing their badges while wearing a uniform?

  50. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 12, 2014 at 2:00 pm #

    You’re right. I should have, and could have done further checking.

    Nathan: Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

  51. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 12, 2014 at 2:06 pm #

    I was not aware that Zullo had proven anything, and in fact he retracts things all the time, only “retraction” for Zullo must means never mentioning it again and hyping some new promise.

    The list of unacknowledged lies from Mike Zullo is very long and are documented here and elsewhere in articles that have stood the test of time and criticism.

    One might start with my favorite, the fake race code table that was the centerpiece of the 2nd Cold Case Posse press conference. In that press conference alone there were half a dozen materially false statements NONE OF WHICH have ever been acknowledged or corrected.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/07/code-9-the-cold-case-posses-big-lie/

    Or you could continue with a long program with Carl Gallups in which Zullo said that Bill Bryan was a government ObamaCare Navigator (which he isn’t) and that he didn’t pass a background check, which he did.

    There were major flaws in the report by Garrett Papit issued by the Cold Case Posse, never acknowledged or corrected.

    I could go on, but in my experience birthers are so starry eyed about Zullo, that they refuse to even look at the evidence.

    Nathan: Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove.

  52. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 2:21 pm #

    mimi: Doc might have retracted the article, but I still hope somebody looks into the issue. From what I read, all the posses have membership dues. Some just $25/year. And the last estimate I read (about a year ago) was 3,500 members.

    For the sake of discussion let’s say both numbers are accurate…..3,500 posse members paying $25 a year. That’s $87.500 but when you divide it by 50 (for the sake of discussion) posses you get $1,750 per posse or under $1,500 if there are 60 of them.

    Each posse is a standalone entity with its own rules and finances so when you look at it this way there’s not much to talk about. The posses that do have large incomes – the community posses – are pretty transparent in how they operate and open about where their money goes.

    mimi: And who gets cars?

    I doubt many have county issued/owned cars. How many may have cars that are owned by posses is another question.

    mimi: And which posse members get to put the county insignia on their vehicle, and why?

    From my experience they all get the decal or label. The rational is that they need it to identify themselves to law enforcement when they are reporting to duty. Truth is it’s a perk and they think it’s a “get out of jail/ticket sticker”. Sometimes it works…..most times it doesn’t. It’s been a problem for a very long time.

    mimi: Are the posse members pretending to be cops? Flashing their badges while wearing a uniform?

    They have no police powers at any time….in or out of uniform. That has also been a problem for a very long time.

    If you get into the nonsense about the sheriff being the chief law enforcement officer of the state or nation or universe there are those that claim the sheriff has the power to deputize people without them having to be licensed by the state (AZPOST). The few that have tried to test that found themselves in deep doo doo.

  53. avatar
    BillTheCat March 12, 2014 at 2:32 pm #

    Nathan:
    Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

    OH, THE IRONY.

  54. avatar
    BillTheCat March 12, 2014 at 2:34 pm #

    Nathan:
    Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove. How many more things have been shared that you can’t prove? This one retraction is only the tip of the iceberg. The fact you had to retract this just goes to show that I can’t trust the things you post. Why? Because the reason why you retracted it is because someone brought it to your attention, not because you did the research yourself, like a responsible person would do.

    Then go away, nothing of value will be lost.

  55. avatar
    Thomas Brown March 12, 2014 at 4:04 pm #

    Nathan: Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove.

    Nonsense. He has not proven a single thing.

    It’s like the difference between claiming you have the winning hand and showing the cards. Claiming you won is horseguano. Showing your cards is the win.

    Come back when Zullo backs up any of his political diarrhea.

  56. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater March 12, 2014 at 4:18 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Hmm….maybe Zullo is planning on a TV show. Maybe their own channel once Arpaio retires?

    Well actually if you listened to Reilly on RC Radio last night he mentioned something about Zullo wanting to write another book and wanted to be involved in a movie deal.

  57. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater March 12, 2014 at 4:25 pm #

    I think its time we start listing things zullo has mentioned only to never talk about again.

    1. Verna Lee call and discussion
    2. At the 2nd press conference they mentioned that they thought all of Obama’s pictures of him in his youth were photoshopped but then he never mentioned it again.
    3. The race codes
    4. Groups of VIPs
    5. Persons of interest
    6. Steve Stockman being on board.
    7. The claim about there being a list at the hospital that they said magically disappeared. This was during their Hawaii Boondoggle.

  58. avatar
    Treblig March 12, 2014 at 4:27 pm #

    Nathan:
    Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove. How many more things have been shared that you can’t prove? This one retraction is only the tip of the iceberg. The fact you had to retract this just goes to show that I can’t trust the things you post. Why? Because the reason why you retracted it is because someone brought it to your attention, not because you did the research yourself, like a responsible person would do.

    No Nathan, the fact that Dr. C even retracted his statement is just another ‘plus’ as far as his integrity and honesty goes — which is a whole hell of a lot more than can be said about this whole ‘birther’ nonsense movement.

  59. avatar
    Crustacean March 12, 2014 at 5:10 pm #

    CarlOrcas: They have no police powers at any time….in or out of uniform.

    In his affidavit for the Mcinnish case, Zullo states

    “8. Under that activation Sheriff Arpaio granted fully law enforcement authority
    of the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office to conduct this investigation and to
    report back to the Sheriff our findings for his ultimate dispensation.”

    Is there a difference between police powers and law enforcement authority?

  60. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 5:28 pm #

    Crustacean: Is there a difference between police powers and law enforcement authority?

    Not in the real world, no.

    Arpaio has given voice to this fantasy a couple of times but it just isn’t true. While he, as a constitutional officer, is exempt from the law that established AZPOST and peace officer certification he has absolutely no authority to grant those powers to anyone else.

    Consider for a moment that if he has that power why is his own Academy POST certified? Why does he require paid and reserve deputies successfully complete an academy and be certified by POST?

    What we have here is another lie – simply put – from the lead players in this little drama……Zullo and Arpaio.

  61. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 5:30 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Well actually if you listened to Reilly on RC Radio last night he mentioned something about Zullo wanting to write another book and wanted to be involved in a movie deal.

    Oh, my! That’s just pathetic.

    And, no, I didn’t listen

  62. avatar
    JPotter March 12, 2014 at 6:20 pm #

    Nathan: Nathan

    … either added a new penthouse onto Bullsh*t Mountain, or cured anemia forever with that single post, I’m not sure which. Maybe both!

    Dear Disingenuous Dolt: Sometimes, the Rest of the Story is not available to be researched. Not all personal knowledge has been index’d—far from it—and not all information is available via the interwebs (shocking but true). Sometimes, the best way to scare up the Rest of the Story is to publish a tentative, based-on-what-is-known-as-of-this-writing type of piece, and additional information will find the writer. Honest sources then publish corrections, updates, etc.

    Try watching any ‘breaking’ news story develop and apply the ridiculous standard you’ve expressed here. You’ll never be able to trust anyone ever again!

  63. avatar
    JPotter March 12, 2014 at 6:24 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Well actually if you listened to Reilly on RC Radio last night he mentioned something about Zullo wanting to write another book and wanted to be involved in a movie deal.

    I do need to give that a listen … movie, hmm? That old CCCP is a hothouse of fantasy isn’t it? Working title …. Atlas Shrugged, part WhotheHellCares? ?

  64. avatar
    CarlOrcas March 12, 2014 at 6:46 pm #

    JPotter: I do need to give that a listen … movie, hmm? That old CCCP is a hothouse of fantasy isn’t it? Working title …. Atlas Shrugged, part WhotheHellCares? ?

    They’ll have to coax Max Sennett out of his grave to do this one.

  65. avatar
    Dave B. March 13, 2014 at 2:00 am #

    Doc didn’t make an erroneous statement of fact– he said,
    “If there are indeed 3,000 Cold Case Posse members each paying $100 a year in dues, that comes to $300,000 annually and over the time the CCP has been in high gear, we’re talking about somewhere between half a million and a million dollars in membership dues!”
    and
    “If this is the kind of money involved, then it certainly explains Mike Zullo continuing to hype his future revelations on the radio week after week. Indeed, this information is so stunning that I’m not sure I believe it (but I did check the math).”
    “IF,” get it? And he retracted it ANYWAY.

    Nathan:
    Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

  66. avatar
    Craig HS March 13, 2014 at 4:28 am #

    “If” “Then” “Or” statements take LOGIC, something birthers are in very short supply of. Plus, they use that thar “logic” stuff in them programmin’ things used by computers, which sounds like robots, which sounds like O-Bots!

  67. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) March 13, 2014 at 5:27 am #

    JPotter: That old CCCP is a hothouse of fantasy isn’t it? Working title …. Atlas Shrugged, part WhotheHellCares?

    Weren’t the three parts of the “Great Trilogy of Indifference” called “Atlas Shrugs”, “Poseidon Frowns” and “Zeus Shakes His Head”?

  68. avatar
    Craig HS March 13, 2014 at 7:32 am #

    Don’t forget the prequel written for a younger audience, “Hades’ Winter Wonderland” where the impossible can happen!

  69. avatar
    Keith March 13, 2014 at 8:03 am #

    CarlOrcas: Hmm….maybe Zullo is planning on a TV show. Maybe their own channel once Arpaio retires?

    this is the link to the full theme tune and may i add that everyone who has answered with the lyrics have got it wrong there a about 3 lines missing at the end.
    this is what you have been waiting for

    it’s alright it’s ok
    dosent really mater if you’re old and grey
    it’s alright i say it’s ok
    listen to what i say

    it’s alright doing fine
    doesn’t really matter if the sun don’t shine
    its alright i say its ok
    we’re getting to the end of the day

    high tech low tech take your pick
    cos you can teach an old dog a brand new trick
    i don’t care what anybody says (at the end of the day)

    theres a place that i can’t find
    a drink or two to ease my mind

    its alright take your time
    everybody thinks that you’ve passed your prime
    its alright its ok
    you’ve still got plenty to say

    (Burma Shave).

  70. avatar
    Keith March 13, 2014 at 8:13 am #

    Another crappy editting job on my part. I think I’ll go bed now.

  71. avatar
    helen March 13, 2014 at 3:19 pm #

    There is one fact that everyone ignores.

    No one can prove anything on this or any other site.

    you can offer evidence and hope that it is believed, but the PROOF is what the reader decides is true.

    Zullo can not prove anything, I can not prove anything, and you can not prove anything, just offer what you believe to be the facts and let the reader decide.

    The way to prove something is not let the other side present their position as that biases the presentation.or denigrate the person instead of the idea presented.

  72. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2014 at 3:36 pm #

    I would not agree with that in general. I could prove that the square root of 2 is an irrational number on this blog, and it would be proven.

    Certainly there are limitations to what can be proven on a web site, but that is not an excuse to say that all claims are equally valid, nor is it an excuse to ignore the evidence and the argument presented, nor to argue a point endlessly after it has been lost.

    helen: you can offer evidence and hope that it is believed, but the PROOF is what the reader decides is true.

  73. avatar
    bob March 13, 2014 at 3:50 pm #

    helen:
    you can offer evidence and hope that it is believed, but the PROOF is what the reader decides is true.

    Couldn’t agree more.

    You don’t think the evidence proves Obama is eligible: Don’t vote for him.

    If you are Congress, and the evidence proves he’s eligible: Certify the election results. Twice.

    If you are the court, and the evidence proves he’s eligible: Toss every birther suit filed.

    If you are the media, and the evidence proves he’s eligible: In light of the mountain of credible evidence, question the actual motives of the doubters.

    There is a reason why those with superior decision-making skills have superior positions in society.

  74. avatar
    bgansel9 March 13, 2014 at 4:02 pm #

    helen:
    There is one fact that everyone ignores.

    No one can prove anything on this or any other site.

    you can offer evidence and hope that it is believed, but the PROOF is what the reader decides is true.

    Sorry, what you call Proof is actually OPINION:

    Proof:
    noun
    1.
    evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.
    “you will be asked to give proof of your identity”
    synonyms: evidence, verification, corroboration, authentication, confirmation, certification, documentation, validation, attestation, substantiation

    Opinion:
    o·pin·ion
    əˈpinyən
    noun
    1.
    a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
    “I’m writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance”
    synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint; sentiment, conception, conviction

  75. avatar
    JPotter March 13, 2014 at 4:31 pm #

    bgansel9: Sorry, what you call Proof is actually OPINION:

    Mr. Helen has trouble with nihilism. Makes his participation in any discussion pointless for anyone interested in reaching a conclusion.

    Just sayin’ … save yourself the time and effort. ;)

  76. avatar
    Majority Will March 13, 2014 at 4:38 pm #

    JPotter: Mr. Helen has trouble with nihilism. Makes his participation in any discussion pointless for anyone interested in reaching a conclusion.

    Just sayin’ … save yourself the time and effort.

    And sophistry.

  77. avatar
    J.D. Reed March 14, 2014 at 2:08 pm #

    Nathan:
    Retracted? How about checking your facts BEFORE posting. Then you won’t have to retract what you’ve said.

    Well, Mr. Nathan, you need to retract what you said about Zullo always making sure he had his facts right before going public. Because, aside from the misstatement about the racial coding, there’s the November 2012 affidavit in which Mr. Z swears that Obama, in his first full day in office, issued an executive order sealing his personal records.
    A few problems there:
    Mr. Obama’s order was idential in content, almost identifical in organization, and 95 percent plus identical in wording, to Ronald Reagan’s last executive order. Also, it was issued pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, which stated unequivocally that personal records of a president were NOT within the subject matter or that law.
    So, Mr. Nathan, please show you’re an honest seeker of truth rather than a drive-by troll. Call up the Obama executive order, and show us in black and white where it calls for the sealing of the president’s personal records. Then call up Mr. Reagan’s order, and show how it differs by not sealing presidents’ personal records.
    Until then, we will rightly assume that the crud you flung at Dr. C. has bouned back and splashed all over you.

  78. avatar
    Rickey March 14, 2014 at 4:42 pm #

    Nathan:
    Zullo hasn’t retracted anything yet, because he only shares what he can prove.

    He just stated that his “universe-shattering announcement” had been delayed until April.

    That sounds like a retraction to me.