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Violent rhetoric is bullying

What prompted this article is a new perspective on the violent birther rhetoric gained from reading from Joe McGinniss’ book, The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin.

McGinniss went to Alaska in 2010 to conduct interviews for the book and by a totally unforeseen turn of events, ended up renting a house next door to the Palin’s in Wasilla, Alaska. Although there was no basis for the claim, the Palins considered McGinniss, a stalker and Sarah Palin posted a photo of him on his back porch (looking the other way) on her Facebook page and said he was looking into her children’s bedrooms (something not possible from the McGinniss house). National conservative pundits like Glenn Beck pushed the story, and a storm of violent rhetoric appeared in comments on Andrew Breitbart’s web site and others, comments such as:

“This is one psychotic liberal . I hope someone mistakes him for a moose and puts an end to his publicity stunt. It would be nice if he ends up at the bottom of Lake Lucille.”

“If trapped in a house and not able to get out for food, does anyone know how long a freaky marxist fanatic can survive on a diet of KY Jelly?”

“I hope someone knocks his teeth down his throat.”

“What a spineless creepy bordering on sex-predator freak. I hope he tries to break into the Palin’s yard and gets a gut full of shotgun shell.”

Those are just about me. They get worse:

“hey, Joe, sleep with one eye open, you POS. can’t wait for your grandkids to show up and play in the woods and water.” And, after publishing my home address: “Joe’s lonely wife needs mail, phone calls and other assurances of concern and good will in Joe’s absence.”

Mcginniss, Joe (2011-09-20). The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin (Kindle Locations 1161-1172). Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. 

Some of the locals suggested McGinniss should leave town for his own safety and the local police regularly patrolled the area to prevent an incident. He had to change his home phone number because of the death threats.

McGinniss labels this behavior (by the Palins, the conservative media and the blog commenters) as “bullying” and I completely agree.

Bullying must be vigorously opposed from the start.

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287 Responses to Violent rhetoric is bullying

  1. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 3, 2014 at 11:18 pm #

    I think bullying (whether by violent rhetoric or more direct means) is endemic on the right these days—it seems like nearly everything the Koch brothers seem to do is bullying in one form or another. I was always struck by Mitt Romney’s response to the story about one of his friends from prep school running into a classmate that he and Mitt (and others) had bullied by forcibly cutting his hair because they thought he was gay. Mitt’s friend apologized to the classmate after running into him unexpectedly, but when Mitt was asked about it he said that he didn’t remember the event.

    Given that he professes to follow the teachings of Jesus, I can only assume that, metaphorically speaking, the act of bullying his lord and savior is such a routine thing to Mr. Romney that it leaves no lasting impression.

  2. avatar
    Lupin April 4, 2014 at 2:46 am #

    Thuggery is what it is, with apologies to the original Indian sect.

  3. avatar
    Woodrowfan April 4, 2014 at 8:45 am #

    Threats of violence to silence a political opponent? Fascism? What fascism?

  4. avatar
    Bob April 4, 2014 at 10:25 am #

    So, to combat the unwanted attention she was getting, Palin went on the internet to chat about it.

    That’ll show that ‘em!

  5. avatar
    Crustacean April 4, 2014 at 12:14 pm #

    Ha! There ain’t enough lipstick in the world to disguise that pig.

    I can’t even fathom the mental state one would have to be in to give high praise to Sarah Palin while mocking Michelle Obama.

  6. avatar
    sef April 4, 2014 at 12:16 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Given that he professes to follow the teachings of Jesus, I can only assume that, metaphorically speaking, the act of bullying his lord and savior is such a routine thing to Mr. Romney that it leaves no lasting impression.

    Two words: “magic underwear”.

  7. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 12:36 pm #

    It sure seems creepy that someone who wants to write a book about Palin would move next door. That tells me this guy is a weirdo. It is obvious she does not want to help this person write a book, she should not be harassed by having him spy on her from next door. Would you like it? I don’t like the way Palin operates politically but that doesn’t mean she should be stalked.
    How does this blog post relate to Obama Conspiracy? Seems to be intended for political rhetoric.

  8. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 4, 2014 at 12:43 pm #

    Even though the very first sentence of Doc’s post explains how this relates to violent birther rhetoric, Mommy’s Special Snowflake requires that it be explained to him how this relates to violent birther rhetoric.

    Disingenuous troll is disingenuous.

  9. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 12:49 pm #

    I am not a Palin supporter. I think the woman is stupid, mean, and proud to be stupid. I think it would have been a disaster of Biblical proportions if she had ever gotten close to leadership of this country.

    That said: If someone moved next door to me with the intention of writing a book about me, that would be worse than just stalking. That would be terrorism. I am completely amazed that any reasonable person could pretend to defend such a thing.

  10. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 12:51 pm #

    Bonsall Obot:
    Even though the very first sentence of Doc’s post explains how this relates to violent birther rhetoric, Mommy’s Special Snowflake requires that it be explained to him how this relates to violent birther rhetoric.

    Disingenuous troll is disingenuous.

    You didn’t answer the question. Would you like it if someone did that to you? Also, because the Dr. thinks it is related, I don’t see it that way, last time I checked I was entitled to an opinion. Of course, you just like the one sided version don’t you “daddy’s little dribble”.

  11. avatar
    Daniel April 4, 2014 at 12:56 pm #

    // last time I checked I was entitled to an opinion. //

    You are entitled to an opinion. You’re not entitled to escape the consequences of an opinion.

    We are also entitled to an opinion, of your opinion, which is what you got.

  12. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 4, 2014 at 12:57 pm #

    The irony of someone who is obsessed with the sex life of the mother of the President calling anyone “creepy” is beyond measure.

    Read Doc’s post. Read McGinnis’ book and blog. The house became available and he rented it. For Princess Dumbass of the North Woods to suggest he was “stalking” her or her family is reprehensible.

    Shoo. You’re still not fit for the grownup table.

  13. avatar
    Dave April 4, 2014 at 1:26 pm #

    I must disagree. I don’t see that it was reprehensible. I would have said, pathetically self-centered.

    Bonsall Obot:
    For Princess Dumbass of the North Woods to suggest he was “stalking” her or her family is reprehensible.

  14. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 4, 2014 at 1:30 pm #

    Dave:
    I must disagree. I don’t see that it was reprehensible. I would have said, pathetically self-centered.

    Let’s just say we’re both right.

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 4, 2014 at 1:57 pm #

    I understand what you were saying. When I read notes on the book before I got it, I thought that the guy had selected the house so that he could gather tidbits on the Palins, see who came and went. But that’s not what happened.

    McGinniss was looking for a place in Anchorage and the places he had looked at were expensive and bad situations. Then he got a phone call from someone he knew from a previous trip. (McGinniss had written a book on Alaska.) They offered him the house to rent next to the Palins. It was convenient to people he needed to interview. The previous tenants of the house were a halfway house for drug offenders. The first day Todd Palin came over and McGinniss introduced himself, told Todd he was writing a book, but had no intention of watching their house (which had a very tall wooden fence between the two properties). McGinniss told Todd Palin that if he had concerns, that Sarah could call Roger Ailes who was a long-time friend of McGinniss, and Palin’s employer at the time.

    Basically the Palins lied about the house, saying that the McGinniss cabin looked down into the children’s bedrooms, when in fact the Palin’s house is the one that looked down. The Palin’s took a photo of him (he took no photos of the Palins) on his deck looking away into the woods, and claimed he was looking at them with binoculars (he had no binoculars).

    Before you call something indefensible, I suggest you read the book.

    Burnell L. Harrison: That said: If someone moved next door to me with the intention of writing a book about me, that would be worse than just stalking. That would be terrorism. I am completely amazed that any reasonable person could pretend to defend such a thing.

  16. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 4, 2014 at 2:17 pm #

    Circling back to Doc’s premise for the post: in what world is it permissible to imply that McGinnis’ purpose was to spy on Palin’s children, knowing this to be a lie, thereby letting slip the winged monkeys of hate upon him?

  17. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 2:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: McGinniss was looking for a place in Anchorage and the places he had looked at were expensive and bad situations. …McGinniss told Todd Palin that if he had concerns, that Sarah could call Roger Ailes who was a long-time friend of McGinniss, and Palin’s employer at the time.

    Well, assuming that it really was the only suitable place to rent in Anchorage, I will concede the point. But that is a very big assumption for a non-conspiratorial minded, non- birther to swallow.

    And then, this new neighbor, who has already published material attacking me in the press, informs me that if I have a problem with him, he can just call my boss?!!!

    Wow. Just Wow. I cannot believe that you cannot see how wrong this is.

  18. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 4, 2014 at 2:56 pm #

    Apparently you don’t feel that it is wrong to misrepresent McGinniss’s actions to make your point. He (McGinniss) said that if she (Caribou Barbie) had a problem that SHE could call HIS long-time friend—who happened to be her boss as well.

    I cannot believe that you cannot see how dishonest this is.

    Burnell L. Harrison: And then, this new neighbor, who has already published material attacking me in the press, informs me that if I have a problem with him, he can just call my boss?!!!

    Wow. Just Wow. I cannot believe that you cannot see how wrong this is.

  19. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 2:59 pm #

    A quick google search will show anyone here that there are plenty of places to rent in Anchorage. There is a wide array of prices. Anyone that knows anything about Alaska knows that the cost of living is higher there. Someone who wants to write a book should have enough sense to know that it will cost more to rent in Alaska than it does in most of the lower 48 states. Just the mere fact this person did not use better judgment and refuse to live next door will pretty much tell you what the results of this book will be. Sorry, I don’t buy the poor destitute writer couldn’t afford anything but the house next door story.

    As far as the violent comments made by some people, there is absolutely no place in society for comments like that. These people are deranged and need psychological help. I do not see the parallel between these Palin comments and birthers other than the violent comments. To me it is mainly Palin bashing so call it what it is. To assume all birthers are violent is absurd, you will always have a few violent extremist people in society unfortunately. Its like saying if the president lies all democrats lie? Please don’t state the president hasn’t lied, I will try to post proof and it will get moderated out again, I am just making an analogy.

  20. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 4, 2014 at 2:59 pm #

    His friend. Her boss.

    What law or social convention did McGinnis violate by renting a house in a convenient location?

  21. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 4, 2014 at 3:04 pm #

    Mommy’s Special Snowflake sez:
    I do not see the parallel between these Palin comments and birthers other than the violent comments.

    Hear that whoosh?

    That was the entire point of Doc’s post, going over your head.

  22. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 3:31 pm #

    Slartibartfast: Apparently you don’t feel that it is wrong to misrepresent McGinniss’s actions to make your point. He (McGinniss) said that if she (Caribou Barbie) had a problem that SHE could call HIS long-time friend—who happened to be her boss as well.

    I did not phrase that very well. But I think you know what I meant. According to DC, McGinniss mentioned her Boss, in a context that was bound to be intimidating and threatening.

    So you would be perfectly OK if a person who had attacked you in print moved in next door and let it be known that they were writing a book about you, and got a message to you that they knew your boss, just in case you “had concerns”.

    You might think that is perfectly OK, but statistically speaking, the vast majority of people would not. Personally, I would inform the police, and move my family to a motel until The Bully was out of the picture.

  23. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 3:38 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Hear that whoosh?

    That was the entire point of Doc’s post, going over your head.

    I get the point of the thread, its Republicans vs Democrats. All Republicans are birthers and violent, democrats are a just and law abiding civil citizen? I stated I do not agree with Palins stance on many issues, hell, I don’t even think she had an IQ over 80, I could be wrong, I haven’t researched it but I am sure its closer to 80 than 130. The whoosh you heard may be over your head, I am trying to point out this makes it look like all republicans are birthers and violent extremists and that is simply not true. As an Independent I see more name calling and insults from democrats, I see more violent comments from people against Obama whom one would assume to be republicans. However, the actual violence that takes place in society comes mainly from the minority groups, why?. Until all sides stop these types of violent comments and name calling things will only escalate. It is a good thing to call out violent statements and acts against people and society, however, it should not have a political slant if we ever intend on making the situation better. Todays politics are only dividing this country when we need it to pull together, we need a leader not a divider.

  24. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 4, 2014 at 3:39 pm #

    Someone suggesting that they will call your boss is intimidating, someone suggesting that you can call your boss and ask about them is a character reference. All of the bullying in this case seems to be coming from the Palin camp, including lying about McGinniss’s actions—which don’t seem to in any way rise to something malicious, let alone actionable.

    Burnell L. Harrison: I did not phrase that very well.But I think you know what I meant.According to DC, McGinniss mentioned her Boss, in a context that was bound to be intimidating and threatening.

    So you would be perfectly OK if a person who had attacked you in print moved in next door and let it be known that they were writing a book about you, and got a message to you that they knew your boss, just in case you “had concerns”.

    You might think that is perfectly OK, but statistically speaking, the vast majority of people would not.Personally, I would inform the police, and move my family to a motel until the person was out of the picture.

    It is ironic that the title of this thread contains the word “Bully”.

  25. avatar
    Daniel April 4, 2014 at 3:40 pm #

    Yeah it’s not like any birther ever published the supposed address and location of a commenter and encouraged her flying monkeys to harrass said commenter…….

  26. avatar
    Daniel April 4, 2014 at 3:42 pm #

    The Truth: I get the point of the thread, its Republicans vs Democrats. All Republicans are birthers and violent, democrats are a just and law abiding civil citizen?

    I’m a Republican.

    You’re a liar.

  27. avatar
    BillTheCat April 4, 2014 at 3:46 pm #

    The Truth:
    It sure seems creepy that someone who wants to write a book about Palin would move next door.

    Shouldn’t Caribou Barbie be the first to defend his right to live where he wants, because we live in a free country?

    Haha of course not, what am I thinking. And link us to one news report on him “harassing” her – ever. Just one, I’ll wait here.

  28. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 3:46 pm #

    Daniel: I’m a Republican.

    You’re a liar.

    Your a Republican and I am Santa Claus.

  29. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 4, 2014 at 3:50 pm #

    The Truth: I get the point of the thread, its Republicans vs Democrats. All Republicans are birthers and violent, democrats are a just and law abiding civil citizen?

    Incorrect. The Doc’s post was wholly about the violent rhetoric of Birfers, and its similarity to the violent rhetoric of the Palinistas. You are projecting your own obsessions upon the subject, and no amount of straw man arguments (as quoted above) will avail you.

    Your reply is startlingly dishonest and off-topic, even for a standard we expect of you.

  30. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 3:50 pm #

    BillTheCat: Shouldn’t Caribou Barbie be the first to defend his right to live where he wants, because we live in a free country?

    Haha of course not, what am I thinking. And link us to one news report on him “harassing” her – ever. Just one, I’ll wait here.

    Ah I see. So, if Zullo moved next door to Dr Conspiracy that would be ok? It would be legal right? As long as there is no police report of harassment who cares?

  31. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 3:54 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Incorrect. The Doc’s post was wholly about the violent rhetoric of Birfers, and its similarity to the violent rhetoric of the Palinistas. You are projecting your own obsessions upon the subject, and no amount of straw man arguments (as quoted above) will avail you.

    Your reply is startlingly dishonest and off-topic, even for a standard we expect of you.

    I was using sarcasm directed at you, surely you of all people understand that?

  32. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 4, 2014 at 3:57 pm #

    The Truth: I was using sarcasm

    We’ll just add that to the list of things you fail at, then.

  33. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 4:04 pm #

    The Truth: So, if Zullo moved next door to Dr Conspiracy that would be ok?

    Let’s ask the Doctor about that. We can’t reconstruct the situation entirely, because Doc is retired and presumably doesn’t have a “Boss” as such. We certainly can’t reproduce the situation between Palin and Ailes, whose relationship was rocky. (Ailes eventually fired her.) And we don’t know about the presence of children or grandchildren, or the topography of the neighborhood. Still…

    Doc, Sir. Hypothetically. If Zullo moved in next door and announced that he was writing an investigation about you, and got a message to you that he knew your Boss, and that you could call your Boss (who was considering firing you) if you had any “concerns”. You would have no problem with that. Right?

    And nobody living in your household would have any concerns or fears either. Right?

    So it would be perfectly OK.

    Thought so.

    Nothing to see, people. No Bully here.

  34. avatar
    JRC April 4, 2014 at 4:20 pm #

    The Truth, I’m a Libertarian, I voted for McCain that election, and Gary Johnson this past. I think that Palin did cause some excitement early in that election cycle. I think at first the McCain camp did control much of the content and she does have charisma as a speaker, but eventually she went rogue on them costing McCain the election IMO. As people were exposed to the real Palin, people were concerned about McCain’s age and her possibly taking over. I had that concern, but I still voted for McCain because I had major concerns about Obama. Not with the birth certificate or some connect the dot association with some radical element. My concern was knowing how Washington works. Might not be a good reason, but that was my reason. I think some has come to pass on that issue, but I don’t want to debate that here. I see a lot more violent rhetoric coming from the fringe right. I also dislike that the Palin’s and Koch’s which are just neo-con’s (they may claim otherwise) hijacked a real Tea Party movement. You want to hold on to your wrong beliefs by pretending everyone that disagrees with you is an evil Pro-Obama liberal Obot when clearly that is not the case. And just because I might disagree with Obama’s policies as I also did with Bush, Obama is eligible to be President under the Constitution of these here United States.

  35. avatar
    JRC April 4, 2014 at 4:30 pm #

    The Truth: I was using sarcasm directed at you, surely you of all people understand that?

    The above post by me was directed at you The Truth. Just wanted to make sure you knew, wasn’t sure if you’d realize it.

  36. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 4:42 pm #

    JRC:
    The Truth, I’m a Libertarian, I voted for McCain that election, and Gary Johnson this past. I think that Palin did cause some excitement early in that election cycle.I think at first the McCain camp did control much of the content and she does have charisma as a speaker, but eventually she went rogue on them costing McCain the election IMO.As people were exposed to the real Palin, people were concerned about McCain’s age and her possibly taking over.I had that concern, but I still voted for McCain because I had major concerns about Obama.Not with the birth certificate or some connect the dot association with some radical element.My concern was knowing how Washington works. Might not be a good reason, but that was my reason.I think some has come to pass on that issue, but I don’t want to debate that here.I see a lot more violent rhetoric coming from the fringe right.I also dislike that the Palin’s and Koch’s which are just neo-con’s (they may claim otherwise) hijacked a real Tea Party movement.You want to hold on to your wrong beliefs by pretending everyone that disagrees with you is an evil Pro-Obama liberal Obot when clearly that is not the case.And just because I might disagree with Obama’s policies as I also did with Bush, Obama is eligible to be President under the Constitution of these here United States.

    I appreciate the fact you did not call me names or provide a direct insult, thank you. I never stated or implied, “everyone that disagrees with you is an evil Pro-Obama liberal Obot “, although many of the responses I see on this blog could certainly be interpreted as such. I am trying to point out in this thread that violence is enhanced by repub vs dem. Of course both of those parties have an agenda but neither side understands compromise and doing what is best for the public interest, it is their own political agenda they are concerned about……power.
    I have clearly stated my opinions about Obama on this site, that is not part of this thread. You are correct, at this point Obama is eligible under the constitution, if I can some day in the next two years disprove it I certainly will. I am a little confused as to why you would not have voted for Ron Paul being a libertarian?

  37. avatar
    JRC April 4, 2014 at 4:43 pm #

    The Truth: However, the actual violence that takes place in society comes mainly from the minority groups, why?

    No whites commit more violent crimes than minorities combined. There are more whites than minorities though. Anyway, I like how you slip this into your rant. Hmmmmmmmmmm. We won’t get into those falsely convicted minorities either.

  38. avatar
    Bob April 4, 2014 at 4:46 pm #

    Palin could have “presented” the “birth narrative” records to McGinnis in the beginning and all of this divisiveness would have been prevented.

    Where’s the birth certificate, Truthy?

  39. avatar
    Crustacean April 4, 2014 at 4:47 pm #

    The Truth: However, the actual violence that takes place in society comes mainly from the minority groups, why?

    Oh, those darned minorities are the worst, aren’t they, Truth? And that cotton-pickin’ “knockout game” – how barbaric!

    Well, at least as barbaric as a made-up thing can be…

  40. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 4, 2014 at 4:51 pm #

    Bob FTW!

    Bob: Palin could have “presented” the “birth narrative” records to McGinnis in the beginning and all of this divisiveness would have been prevented.

  41. avatar
    JRC April 4, 2014 at 4:51 pm #

    The Truth: I appreciate the fact you did not call me names or provide a direct insult, thank you. I never stated or implied, “everyone that disagrees with you is an evil Pro-Obama liberal Obot “, although many of the responses I see on this blog could certainly be interpreted as such. I am trying to point out in this thread that violence is enhanced by repub vs dem. Of course both of those parties have an agenda but neither side understands compromise and doing what is best for the public interest, it is their own political agenda they are concerned about……power.
    I have clearly stated my opinions about Obama on this site, that is not part of this thread. You are correct, at this point Obama is eligible under the constitution, if I can some day in the next two years disprove it I certainly will. I am a little confused as to why you would not have voted for Ron Paul being a libertarian?

    I like Ron Paul, but I thought that it was going to be a close race in my state, and by voting Paul I would be sending a message, but by voting for one of the two parties I would possibly be influencing the outcome. Paul isn’t exactly a libertarian, he is libertarian light, but I think the younger generation looks passed that and he has helped the Libertarian movement. In my state Romney was going to win, and I wasn’t going to vote for Romney, so I voted for Gary Johnson.

  42. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 4:55 pm #

    Crustacean: Oh, those darned minorities are the worst, aren’t they, Truth?And that cotton-pickin’ “knockout game” – how barbaric!

    Well, at least as barbaric as a made-up thing can be…

    It is sad you see humor in some knockout game, I wouldn’t wish that on even you. When is the last time you drove down a back street in Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, Oakland? I don’t see humor, I don’t see cotton pickers, I see a tragedy with human lives. But lets all just do the same old thing and ignore it. David Letterman is retiring, maybe you have a shot.

  43. avatar
    JRC April 4, 2014 at 5:03 pm #

    The Truth: It is sad you see humor in some knockout game, I wouldn’twish that on even you. When is the last time you drove down a back street in Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, Oakland? I don’t see humor, I don’t see cotton pickers, I see a tragedy with human lives. But lets all just do the same old thing and ignore it. David Letterman is retiring, maybe you have a shot.

    Here is arrest statistics for violent crimes in 2011 from the FBI

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

    Edited…sorry all crimes. But you can do the math for the violent ones.

    Edited again, so you don’t have to do the math….

    White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race, accounting for 59.4 percent of those arrests.

  44. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 5:13 pm #

    JRC: No whites commit more violent crimes than minorities combined.There are more whites than minorities though.Anyway, I like how you slip this into your rant.Hmmmmmmmmmm.We won’t get into those falsely convicted minorities either.

    Unfortunately here is a link showing 60% of the prison population is minorities.

    http://www.researchomatic.com/The-Disproportionate-Minority-Prison-Populations-2123.html#buytopicstep

    There are many reasons why I suppose, from rich whites don’t go to prison to the good old boy police state. The fact is, we have a system that uses a jury, they were convicted, whether they were singled out is irrelevant, they broke the law. If we don’t like the system then instead of building more prisons why don’t we spend more on education and real opportunity for all that seek it. And by the way, the government is not supposed to be a business, it is supposed to support the constitution and provide opportunity through it, not create more red tape and obstacles but that’s a whole other story.

  45. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 5:19 pm #

    Burnell L. Harrison: Well, assuming that it really was the only suitable place to rent in Anchorage, I will concede the point. But that is a very big assumption for a non-conspiratorial minded, non- birther to swallow.

    You wouldn’t have to swallow anything if you paid attention and knew what you were talking about. Palin doesn’t live in Anchorage. Hence the rental house next door isn’t in Anchorage.

    She and her family live in a small town in the Matanuska Valley, 40 miles north of Anchorage.

  46. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 5:21 pm #

    The Truth: A quick google search will show anyone here that there are plenty of places to rent in Anchorage. There is a wide array of prices. Anyone that knows anything about Alaska knows that the cost of living is higher there.

    Anyone who knows anything about Alaska (to say nothing of current events) knows that Sarah Palin doesn’t live in Anchorage.

  47. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 5:24 pm #

    CarlOrcas: You wouldn’t have to swallow anything if you paid attention and knew what you were talking about. Palin doesn’t live in Anchorage. Hence the rental house isn’t next door isn’t in Anchorage.

    She and her family live in a small town in the Matanuska Valley, 40 miles north of Anchorage.

    That makes it even worse!!! That shows this guy intentionally moved to be close to Palin. He cant research for a book unless he lives next door? He cant live only 40 miles away? Wow, unbelievable.

  48. avatar
    JRC April 4, 2014 at 5:27 pm #

    The Truth: Unfortunately here is a link showing 60% of the prison population is minorities.

    http://www.researchomatic.com/The-Disproportionate-Minority-Prison-Populations-2123.html#buytopicstep

    There are many reasons why I suppose, from rich whites don’t go to prison to the good old boy police state. The fact is, we have a system that uses a jury, they were convicted, whether they were singled out is irrelevant, they broke the law. If we don’t like the system then instead of building more prisons why don’t we spend more on education and real opportunity for all that seek it. And by the way, the government is not supposed to be a business, it is supposed to support the constitution and provide opportunity through it, not create more red tape and obstacles but that’s a whole other story.

    Hmmmmm, moving goal posts now. Minorities may get longer sentences for those crimes thereby increasing the prison population over time. Anyway, you stated as a fact that minorities commit more violent crimes than white and asked why? I pointed out that was incorrect. And it is incorrect even if you are now acting as if you are now concerned about the issue. I’ll get off this topic since it may or may not be on topic.

  49. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 5:30 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Anyone who knows anything about Alaska (to say nothing of current events) knows that Sarah Palin doesn’t live in Anchorage.

    Oh boy, now you win. Never mind my opinion, he should live right next door to her. I see your point, you are awesome. Pointing out a 40 mile distance from Anchorage in the biggest state of the union is ground breaking indeed! I’m sure it would never be considered even close to being a suburb like any other normal metropolitan area. Whew, thanks for saving me and pointing out my ignorance.

  50. avatar
    JRC April 4, 2014 at 5:31 pm #

    The Truth: That makes it even worse!!! That shows this guy intentionally moved to be close to Palin. He cant research for a book unless he lives next door? He cant live only 40 miles away? Wow, unbelievable.

    How does that make it worse, he was interviewing people and wanted it to be convenient for people so they didn’t have to drive 40 miles away or 80 mile round trip. The faux outrage is strong in this one.

  51. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 5:34 pm #

    The Truth: However, the actual violence that takes place in society comes mainly from the minority groups, why?. Until all sides stop these types of violent comments and name calling things will only escalate. It is a good thing to call out violent statements and acts against people and society, however, it should not have a political slant if we ever intend on making the situation better. Todays politics are only dividing this country when we need it to pull together, we need a leader not a divider.

    You need to do some studying……history and statistics. The notion that politicizing crime is something new is just laughable to anyone over about 20.

    As far as your assertion that “the actual violence that takes place in society comes mainly from the minority groups” is concerned. Well, it’s wrong.

    According to the FBI’s 2011 Uniform Crime Report whites comprised about 60% of all arrests for violent crimes and right at 70% of arrests for all crimes.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

    If you really are interested in The Truth I suggest some more time looking for it yourself rather than spouting what you’ve heard from others.

  52. avatar
    JRC April 4, 2014 at 5:41 pm #

    For The Truth…..this is from the WSJ….actually I have other sources about sentencing. Seems my hunch about sentencing may just be correct. It’s logic and reason, and common sense. But here you go.

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002

    And this is just Federal, imagine in some states what the disparity might be in sentencing.

  53. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 5:44 pm #

    CarlOrcas: You need to do some studying……history and statistics. The notion that politicizing crime is something new is just laughable to anyone over about 20.

    As far as your assertion that “the actual violence that takes place in society comes mainly from the minority groups” is concerned. Well, it’s wrong.

    According to the FBI’s 2011 Uniform Crime Report whites comprised about 60% of all arrests for violent crimes and right at 70% of arrests for all crimes.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

    If you really are interested in The Truth I suggest some more time looking for it yourself rather than spouting what you’ve heard from others.

    Ok. Drive in Detroit after dark. Let me know what happens. Don’t get out of the car though, you may get knocked out just for fun. How many violent crimes are never solved since you are such a great statistician? Yep, lets just keep ignoring the fact there is an issue, that’s how we handle it. Minorities are basically 25% of the population and fill 60% of the prisons, no issue there at all, just injustice, they were all framed.

  54. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 5:45 pm #

    CarlOrcas: You wouldn’t have to swallow anything if you paid attention and knew what you were talking about. Palin doesn’t live in Anchorage.

    You Sir, are a troll. If you paid attention yourself, you would have noticed that the Anchorage reference came from Doc’s quote, which was included.

    Dr. Conspiracy: McGinniss was looking for a place in Anchorage and the places he had looked at were expensive and bad situations. Then he got a phone call from someone he knew from a previous trip. (McGinniss had written a book on Alaska.) They offered him the house to rent next to the Palins.

  55. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 5:50 pm #

    The Truth: That makes it even worse!!! That shows this guy intentionally moved to be close to Palin. He cant research for a book unless he lives next door? He cant live only 40 miles away? Wow, unbelievable.

    Wow, indeed.

    Palin had lived in Wasilla since the early 70′s. She was on the city council and mayor of Wasilla for about ten years until she got involved in state politics. The rest is history.

    Now……if you wanted to know about her, wanted to meet people who had known her for a long time, where would you go to do your research: Anchorage or Wasilla? Take your time.

  56. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 5:54 pm #

    The Truth: Whew, thanks for saving me and pointing out my ignorance.

    You’re welcome. It wasn’t hard.

  57. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 5:59 pm #

    Burnell L. Harrison: You Sir, are a troll. If you paid attention yourself, you would have noticed that the Anchorage reference came from Doc’s quote, which was included.

    Did you miss this from the main posting?

    “McGinniss went to Alaska in 2010 to conduct interviews for the book and by a totally unforeseen turn of events, ended up renting a house next door to the Palin’s in Wasilla, Alaska.”

  58. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 6:06 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Wow, indeed.

    Palin had lived in Wasilla since the early 70′s. She was on the city council and mayor of Wasilla for about ten years until she got involved in state politics. The rest is history.

    Now……if you wanted to know about her, wanted to meet people who had known her for a long time, where would you go to do your research: Anchorage or Wasilla? Take your time.

    I would move right next door, that’s typical of any author isn’t it? Why I’m sure it is normal for someone to do that.Why do proper research when you can live next door? Nothing wrong with a little intimidation to try and get a response huh? Oh my, that’s exactly what happened, now Palin is the liar since she said he was spying on them. He is looking for publicity, pond scum is what he is. You are just as delusional as the guy who moved next door to Palin.

  59. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 6:11 pm #

    Burnell L. Harrison: You Sir, are a troll.If you paid attention yourself, you would have noticed that the Anchorage reference came from Doc’s quote, which was included.

    Don’t bother, you will never convince this person what is happening is wrong. I am glad to see there is someone on here that can see this is a brutally shallow act by this so called author.

  60. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 6:11 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Did you miss this from the main posting?

    No.

    Did you miss the fact that it has no relevance whatsoever to what is actually being discussed, which was stated as quote “McGinniss was looking for a place in Anchorage and the places he had looked at were expensive and bad situations. “?

    Are you really Falcon? Seems to be a pattern. I notice every post you make has to flame somebody. Does it make you feel good?

  61. avatar
    JRC April 4, 2014 at 6:12 pm #

    The Truth: I would move right next door, that’s typical of any author isn’t it? Why I’m sure it is normal for someone to do that.Why do proper research when you can live next door? Nothing wrong with a little intimidation to try and get a response huh? Oh my, that’s exactly what happened, now Palin is the liar since she said he was spying on them. He is looking for publicity, pond scum is what he is. You are just as delusional as the guy who moved next door to Palin.

    You are the delusional one. You are interviewing people from that town. So if you have a choice do you rent a spot next door or 40 miles away? For the not delusional, the choice is pretty much a given. As someone pointed out, he never harassed any of the Palins, yet his family was.

  62. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 6:19 pm #

    JRC:
    For The Truth…..this is from the WSJ….actually I have other sources about sentencing.Seems my hunch about sentencing may just be correct.It’s logic and reason, and common sense.But here you go.

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002

    And this is just Federal, imagine in some states what the disparity might be in sentencing.

    So what you are doing is accusing the judicial system, judges both federal and state, of unfair and unconstitutional treatment? When they decide against birthers they are great, but corrupt when sentencing minorities? I am sure you can justify this allegation? This is a serious accusation you have made.

  63. avatar
    JRC April 4, 2014 at 6:20 pm #

    The Truth: Ok. Drive in Detroit after dark. Let me know what happens. Don’t get out of the car though, you may get knocked out just for fun. How many violent crimes are never solved since you are such a great statistician? Yep, lets just keep ignoring the fact there is an issue, that’s how we handle it. Minorities are basically 25% of the population and fill 60% of the prisons, no issue there at all, just injustice, they were all framed.

    Mr. Strawman, as I pointed out sentencing would most likely explain the increased population in prisons. As far as walking down the street in Detroit, I don’t see how that is relevant. It’s like saying to a poor black guy to walk in a rich white neighborhood and see what happens. It’s totally stupid. I’ve actually walked in poor black neighborhoods and was treated very kindly. Seems you are showing some “true colors” about yourself.

    Edited to add that noone said that everyone was framed, but there is a fair amount of evidence that some were. Just look into the Innocence Project, and you’ll see that with their resources they can only do so much, but if someone can be convicted of a murder or rape they didn’t commit, then how hard is it to extrapolate from there to lesser violent crime convictions.

  64. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 6:21 pm #

    Burnell L. Harrison: Did you miss the fact that it has no relevance whatsoever to what is actually being discussed, which was stated as quote “McGinniss was looking for a place in Anchorage and the places he had looked at were expensive and bad situations. “?

    In context it seems pretty clear that McGinnis apparently first looked for a place in Anchorage but found it too expensive and then ended up in Wasilla.

    Had he rented a place in Anchorage he would have quickly found out the commute to Wasilla can be long and treacherous depending on the weather.

  65. avatar
    American Mzungu April 4, 2014 at 6:21 pm #

    Burnell L. Harrison: CarlOrcas: You wouldn’t have to swallow anything if you paid attention and knew what you were talking about. Palin doesn’t live in Anchorage.

    You Sir, are a troll.

    Not so.

  66. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 6:25 pm #

    JRC: You are the delusional one.You are interviewing people from that town.So if you have a choice do you rent a spot next door or 40 miles away?For the not delusional, the choice is pretty much a given. As someone pointed out, he never harassed any of the Palins, yet his family was.

    You should be a politician, you would fit well with the current status quo. Some people will stoop to any means to get what they want, looks like you approve of that approach.

  67. avatar
    JRC April 4, 2014 at 6:26 pm #

    The Truth: So what you are doing is accusing the judicial system,judges both federal and state, of unfair and unconstitutional treatment? When they decide against birthers they are great, but corrupt when sentencing minorities? I am sure you can justify this allegation? This is a serious accusation you have made.

    LOL….you are really good at faux outrage. This isn’t something that is new. As far as comparing it to the birther crapsuits, it’s just laughable. Every court has ruled the same in the birth crapsuits, as far as sentencing biases there is basis for it.

  68. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 6:36 pm #

    JRC: Mr. Strawman, as I pointed out sentencing would most likely explain the increased population in prisons.As far as walking down the street in Detroit, I don’t see how that is relevant.It’s like saying to a poor black guy to walk in a rich white neighborhood and see what happens.It’s totally stupid.I’ve actually walked in poor black neighborhoods and was treated very kindly. Seems you are showing some “true colors” about yourself.

    Edited to add that noone said that everyone was framed, but there is a fair amount of evidence that some were.Just look into the Innocence Project, and you’ll see that with their resources they can only do so much, but if someone can be convicted of a murder or rape they didn’t commit, then how hard is it to extrapolate from there to lesser violent crime convictions.

    </blockquote
    You have still accused federal and state judges of unjust treatment of minorities. Where is your evidence to prove this?When will you start your lawsuit? You can contact the ACLU also, perhaps they missed that little issue.
    One the whole, if a black guy walked into an all white neighborhood I suspect the worst treatment would be calling the police if this person looked suspicious. Apparently you are aware of some big wide spread issue not being covered by the media like white people beating or playing knock out with this hypothetical black person situation? I have lived in neighborhoods with poor blacks and whites, I have seen first hand what happens, granted it has been a couple decades ago but not much has changed except they are even more segregated now. Until people admit there is a problem it will never change Mr, Tin Man.

  69. avatar
    Rickey April 4, 2014 at 6:37 pm #

    The Truth:
    It sure seems creepy that someone who wants to write a book about Palin would move next door. That tells me this guy is a weirdo.

    It sure seems creepy to me that someone would claim, without a shred of evidence, that President Obama’s mother was impregnated when she was 16 years old by a man who was 41 years her senior. That tells me that the person who made that claim is a weirdo.

  70. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 6:37 pm #

    The Truth: Don’t bother, you will never convince this person what is happening is wrong.

    Laughing. I put them on my imaginary “ignore” button. Its always tempting to come back for one more stab at the obvious, but it just feeds them what they live for. There is a guy over on one of the Birther sites who is even worse.

    We have an occasional participate in our poker game known as “The Table Cop”. He is just SO knowledgeable. He considers himself to be an asset to our game due to all the knowledge he imparts to us idiots. We notice that he becomes even more and more knowledgeable the more he loses.

  71. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 6:42 pm #

    Burnell L. Harrison: Laughing. I put them on my imaginary “ignore” button. Its always tempting to come back for one more stab at the obvious, but it just feeds them what they live for.There is a guy over on one of the Birther sites who is even worse.

    We have an occasional participate in our poker game known as “The Table Cop”.He is just SO knowledgeable.He considers himself to be an asset to our game due to all the knowledge he imparts to us idiots.We notice that he becomes even more and more knowledgeable the more he looses.

    Yeah, I have seen some of the comments on the birther report site. I checked out this Falcon guy last week, he is something else. I don’t approve of the hang, shoot or guillotine comments there so I don’t visit the site. I never bothered to comment there because it is to radical in most cases. At least this site is just name callers and insults.

  72. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 6:46 pm #

    The Truth: I would move right next door, that’s typical of any author isn’t it? Why I’m sure it is normal for someone to do that.Why do proper research when you can live next door? Nothing wrong with a little intimidation to try and get a response huh? Oh my, that’s exactly what happened, now Palin is the liar since she said he was spying on them. He is looking for publicity, pond scum is what he is. You are just as delusional as the guy who moved next door to Palin.

    Take a deep breath. Clean the spittle off your screen.

    Yes…..moving to the epicenter of the life of the person you are writing about is quite common for writers. Saves a lot of commuting and gives you a feel for the person and her background that you wouldn’t have otherwise.

    Now…..try answering my question: If you were going to spend time in Alaska to write about Sarah Palin which city would you live in?

  73. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 6:47 pm #

    Rickey: It sure seems creepy to me that someone would claim, without a shred of evidence, that President Obama’s mother was impregnated when she was 16 years old by a man who was 41 years her senior. That tells me that the person who made that claim is a weirdo.

    Until I prove it, you may keep slinging your comments over. Trust me, I am working on it and get closer every day. I suppose you will require a bed sheet and DNA to as evidence? Remember Subud, you will be hearing a lot about it in the coming weeks.

  74. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 6:54 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Take a deep breath. Clean the spittle off your screen.

    Yes…..moving to the epicenter of the life of the person you are writing about is quite common for writers. Saves a lot of commuting and gives you a feel for the person and her background that you wouldn’t have otherwise.

    Now…..try answering my question: If you were going to spend time in Alaska to write about Sarah Palin which city would you live in?

    My answer, if I were a pond scum writer and I wanted publicity, I would move next door to Palin. It creates news and threads like this, and it sells books. There is the elusive answer.

    Now answer this for me, why are you defending the actions of this writer, is it because you hate Palin?

  75. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 6:54 pm #

    The Truth: So what you are doing is accusing the judicial system,judges both federal and state, of unfair and unconstitutional treatment? When they decide against birthers they are great, but corrupt when sentencing minorities? I am sure you can justify this allegation? This is a serious accusation you have made.

    No….what lots of people are saying and have been talking about for a very long time is that there is a disturbing disparity in the imprisonment rate and length of sentences for minorities when, in fact, whites account for the vast majority of those arrested for those same crimes.

  76. avatar
    Rickey April 4, 2014 at 6:55 pm #

    The Truth: Ok. Drive in Detroit after dark. Let me know what happens. Don’t get out of the car though, you may get knocked out just for fun.

    First of all, the “knock-out game” has been shown to be largely a myth.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/12/local/la-me-ln-knockout-game-faux-media-trend-20131211

    I have driven and walked through the South Bronx many times over the past 25 years, and I have never even been hassled, much less attacked. I am white and I am unarmed, yet I live to tell about it!

  77. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 7:00 pm #

    CarlOrcas: No….what lots of people are saying and have been talking about for a very long time is that there is a disturbing disparity in the imprisonment rate and length of sentences for minorities when, in fact, whites account for the vast majority of those arrested for those same crimes.

    Then I assume there is a judicial investigation being done by the FBI? Or, there is a lawsuit before the US or state supreme courts you can link? Surely a liberal governor would release these people? Like the birth certificate, it is unfounded speculation on your part unless you can prove otherwise.

  78. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 7:04 pm #

    Rickey: First of all, the “knock-out game” has been shown to be largely a myth.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2013/dec/12/local/la-me-ln-knockout-game-faux-media-trend-20131211

    I have driven and walked through the South Bronx many times over the past 25 years, and I have never even been hassled, much less attacked. I am white and I am unarmed, yet I live to tell about it!

    Are you really going to make me give you a pile of you tube links showing this knock out game happen in real time video? Save me some time and look yourself. And for the record, I did not start the knock out thread comments, I was defending a response to my post.
    I am glad you walk unarmed, I would chose a better place to do it though.

  79. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 7:06 pm #

    The Truth: My answer, if I were a pond scum writer and I wanted publicity, I would move next door to Palin. It creates news and threads like this, and it sells books. There is the elusive answer.

    He was there for about five months int he summer of 2010. The book was published in 2011. The first mention of him being there came from Palin, as I recall.

    You still don’t answer a simple question: Where would you have stayed if you were going to write a book about Sarah Palin?

    The Truth: Now answer this for me, why are you defending the actions of this writer, is it because you hate Palin?

    I’m defending what he did because there was nothing wrong with, nothing unreasonable about it given the task before him.

    BTW……”this writer” died last year.

  80. avatar
    Rickey April 4, 2014 at 7:07 pm #

    The Truth: Until I prove it, you may keep slinging your comments over. Trust me, I am working on it and get closer every day. I suppose you will require a bed sheet and DNA to as evidence? Remember Subud, you will be hearing a lot about it in the coming weeks.

    Sure, any day now. Didn’t you promise to have it for us a week ago?

    I have already explained in great detail how your fantasies about Stanley Ann Dunham getting together with Subuh could not possibly be true. He was in Europe for nearly her entire senior year of high school, and she was in Washington for all of her senior year except for the few days when she and a classmate “ran away” to San Francisco (long after Subuh had left the city).

    You should be ashamed of yourself for your baseless attacks on a dead woman (that is, if you had any sense of decency), but at least nobody who means anything is taking you seriously.

  81. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 7:07 pm #

    The Truth: At least this site is just name callers and insults.

    Well, maybe just a little bit of that, but it is normally one of the better places for the exchange of ideas. Doc is very high minded, but some of the participants are more typical human beings. More passive aggressiveness than anything.

    They don’t normally resort to the 3rd grade stuff you see at BR. But there is a lot of snarky flaming “if you paid attention”, “if you knew what you were talking about”, “can’t you read”, “you need to do some studying”, etc. There is one guy in particular who likes to bully the newcomers with this, as you maybe have seen today (bullying being appropriate to the title of this thread).

    The trouble with Falcon is the really creepy homoerotic element to his insults, along with the lowbrow stuff. I don’t see much of that here, although this site like every other, has at least one resident troll. By the way, since we are here to exchange ideas and hopefully not flames, I disagree strongly with several things you have said today. In particular, I think there is nothing but air in the Subud theories.

  82. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 7:08 pm #

    CarlOrcas: He was there for about five months int he summer of 2010. The book was published in 2011. The first mention of him being there came from Palin, as I recall.

    You still don’t answer a simple question: Where would you have stayed if you were going to write a book about Sarah Palin?

    I’m defending what he did because there was nothing wrong with, nothing unreasonable about it given the task before him.

    BTW……”this writer” died last year.

    I didn’t know he passed on. I never heard about him until today. Sorry for your loss.

  83. avatar
    Rickey April 4, 2014 at 7:10 pm #

    The Truth: Are you really going to make me give you a pile of you tube links showing this knock out game happen in real time video?

    I have seen many of them, and most of them are fakes or totally unrelated to any “knockout game.”

    Even James Addlespurger, the Pittsburgh, Pa., teacher who has become a poster child for the current “knockout game” hysteria says it’s all a bunch of hooey.

    Surely, you’ve seen the video; as he walks down an alley, he is cold-cocked by a 15-year-old. Captured on surveillance tape, the assault became Exhibit A in the last month’s burst of media coverage of the so-called game. And even though the crime took place in 2011, the tape has been revived (and revived and revived) for the current round of fear-mongering.

    “I feel I am being exploited,” Addlespurger said in an interview Sunday with HuffPostLive. “People are using it to push their own agendas, and that’s what people do.”

  84. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 7:16 pm #

    Burnell L. Harrison: Well, maybe just a little bit of that, but it is normally one of the better places for the exchange of ideas. Doc is very high minded, but some of the participants are more typical human beings.More passive aggressiveness than anything.

    They don’t normally resort to the 3rd grade stuff you see at BR.But there is a lot of snarky flaming “if you paid attention”, “if you knew what you were talking about”, “can’t you read”, “you need to do some studying”, etc.There is one guy in particular who likes to bully the newcomers with this, as you maybe have seen today (bullying being appropriate to the title of this thread).

    The trouble with Falcon is the really creepy homoerotic element to his insults, along with the lowbrow stuff.I don’t see much of that here, although this site like every other, has at least one resident troll.By the way, since we are here to exchange ideas and hopefully not flames, I disagree strongly with several things you have said today.In particular, I think there is nothing but air in the Subud theories.

    I prefer not to argue thank you very much. I am working on this Subud cult, it has some very interesting connections. I prefer to not release any more here until I get more verifiable info. Going back 50 years is difficult. I am willing to link how they think though and a couple minor ties to Obama for now. I am saving most of it for the proper thread so I don’t get moderated out again.

  85. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 7:23 pm #

    The Truth: Then I assume there is a judicial investigation being done by the FBI? Or, there is a lawsuit before the US or state supreme courts you can link? Surely a liberal governor would release these people? Like the birth certificate, it is unfounded speculation on your part unless you can prove otherwise.

    What is, or would be, a “judicial investigation being done by the FBI”?

    As it regards information on the subject a Bing search of “prison sentences by race” produces lots of relevant responses. Try it.

    Most interesting is this one for “The Sentencing Project” that you should find interesting if you really want to know something about the issue…….

    http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122

  86. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 7:27 pm #

    The Truth: I didn’t know he passed on. I never heard about him until today. Sorry for your loss.

    You never heard of him until today but you’re happy to call him “pond scum” and jump to conclusion after conclusion about why he did what he did.

    Fascinating.

    Thank you for taking the time to make Doc’s point.

  87. avatar
    Daniel April 4, 2014 at 7:33 pm #

    The Truth: you will be hearing a lot about it in the coming weeks.

    Will it be universe shattering? lol

  88. avatar
    Bob April 4, 2014 at 7:42 pm #

    Palin’s personal wealth is something like $12 million. I feel so bad for her.

  89. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 4, 2014 at 7:44 pm #

    Joe McGinniss is one of the most prominent and respected political writers of our time. His book, The Selling of the President defined modern coverage of political campaigns.

    Read the Wikipedia article and learn something important that you missed.

    The Truth: I never heard about him until today.

  90. avatar
    Crustacean April 4, 2014 at 7:59 pm #

    The Truth: It is sad you see humor in some knockout game, I wouldn’t wish that on even you. When is the last time you drove down a back street in Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, Oakland?

    How in the world did you take from my comment that I see humor in someone being punched in the face? (I wouldn’t laugh, even if it were your face). I don’t even find humor in someone using an urban myth to make a nonsensical point. I do, however, freely mock such nonsense.

    This thread isn’t about inner-city people and violence. It’s about using threats of violence in a political arena. Big difference.

    And for your information, this white boy has never walked the mean streets of Detroit or Chicago, but I did spend ten years working in a classroom in Oakland. I had students from many races. I walked the streets – even the “scary” ones – and commuted by bus. I loved the people I met, and I was never knocked out, not even once. Soon after moving to Oaktown, I was embarrassed when I realized how surprised I was at the kindness and respect “minorities” bestowed upon me. That was the latent racism within myself that I had to grow beyond.

    Of course, inner cities across America have big problems, and only a fool would advocate ignoring them (and that’s another thing: this straw-man crap has GOT to stop. Who said anything about ignoring these issues?). I don’t suffer fools lightly. Fools who lecture me without knowing a damned thing about me, even less.

  91. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 4, 2014 at 8:01 pm #

    But Mike Zullo couldn’t move next to me because there are no rental properties in my neighborhood. My point there is that in any given location there are a limited number of places available. McGinniss wasn’t in that location because he looked for it, but because someone offered it to him at 50% off the usual price.

    I know more stuff about Mike Zullo than you do (stuff that I have in confidence and won’t publish on the blog). But any reaction I have to Zullo moving next door to me is colored by that knowledge, and that reaction would probably to sell the house and move away.

    But McGinniss is a hugely respected writer, and not a conspiracy theorist with a gun.

    Burnell L. Harrison: Doc, Sir. Hypothetically. If Zullo moved in next door and announced that he was writing an investigation about you, and got a message to you that he knew your Boss, and that you could call your Boss (who was considering firing you) if you had any “concerns”. You would have no problem with that. Right?

  92. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 4, 2014 at 8:05 pm #

    BTW, if you’re interested in Palin, McGinniss’ book is a must read.

  93. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 8:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Before you call something indefensible, I suggest you read the book.

    Awww. Do I have to? What if someone wants me to read one of Palin’s “books” to balance it out?

    Seriously, I read “The Selling” about 30 years ago. I detested Nixon before and after, but I came out thinking McGinniss was just plain silly. I remember the part near the end where some best and brightest person said he was leaving the country forever because Nixon got elected. THE HUMANITY!

    Thank you for the 2 factoids from the book, because that is probably all I will get. The first (about availability of housing in the area) leads me to think that McGinniss was disingenuous. The second, (the conversation about Palin’s Boss) leads me to think he was a Bully.

    Life is short and there is so much to read. I have not read The Brothers Karamazov. And I am only on the second volume of the Pritzker Edition.

    This Christmas I got a box set of 6 Jim Thompson novels, which I have not yet cracked. Which of these should I bump to make room for McGinniss and Palin?

  94. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 8:23 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I know more stuff about Mike Zullo than you do (stuff that I have in confidence and won’t publish on the blog).

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you and Gallups have one of your secret bull sessions.

    Your reaction is colored by what you know about Zullo. I submit that Palin’s reaction, (someone will hit me if I say “like many women”) but I submit that Palin’s reaction may have been colored by what she suspected as much as what she actually knew about McGinniss.

    Consider the difficulties if you had children who roamed the neighborhood. How could you diplomatically tell them that they must not say anything to the new neighbor about Mummy and Daddy to the new neighbor? Any innocent question such as “When does your mummy get home”, or “Did you kids have a nice Christmas”, could be providing information to an enemy.

  95. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 8:28 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    But McGinniss is a hugely respected writer, and not a conspiracy theorist with a gun.

    Here is a link that describes this writer.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_McGinniss

    This is what a judge supposedly said when he was sued in 1984;

    Judge Ross likened McGinniss’s conduct to that of “a thief in the night” and then corrected himself, saying, “I guess a thief in the night wouldn’t see you. He is more of a con man than he is a thief

    And this about the Palin book;

    The book is reportedly heavy on innuendo, including conjecture that Sarah Palin is not the biological mother of her son, Trig Palin.[13] Early reviews by The Los Angeles Times and The New York Times criticized The Rogue for its use of unnamed sources and for having an obvious anti-Palin agenda.[13][14]

    I did not research the all of the references, I just grazed over them. It appears this man was not held highly in all circles. It appears he was after Palin in a negative way so Palin should have been upset.

  96. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 8:32 pm #

    Bob:
    Palin’s personal wealth is something like $12 million.I feel so bad for her.

    You are wealthy, therefore you should be harassed as punishment?

  97. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 8:39 pm #

    Daniel: Will it be universe shattering? lol

    That I couldn’t tell you, it depends on what universe you live in and whether or not you believe Zullo and Gallops. All I have read is a publicity stunt so far, I don’t know what they are announcing or if they will announce anything. I heard Gallops mention Subud a couple months ago but then haven’t heard anything since. I would agree with the statement put up or shut up for Zullo, he has had years to show something. Maybe he is getting a new universe shattering car.

  98. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 8:51 pm #

    CarlOrcas: You never heard of him until today but you’re happy to call him “pond scum” and jump to conclusion after conclusion about why he did what he did.

    Fascinating.

    Thank you for taking the time to make Doc’s point.

    Any writer who would intentionally move in next door so he could write a non-authorized biography about a person (against Palins will) is…….pond scum, dead or alive.

  99. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 4, 2014 at 8:54 pm #

    Palin was upset because of what McGinniss wrote about her pipeline project before.

    The Truth: It appears he was after Palin in a negative way so Palin should have been upset.

  100. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 4, 2014 at 8:58 pm #

    Let me give you the quote, and you can see that there was nothing bullying at all:

    Listen, I’m a good neighbor. Ask anybody. Ask Roger Ailes at Fox News. Your wife is working for him now . Roger and I disagree about everything political that it’s possible to disagree about, but we’ve been friends for more than forty years. Have Sarah call him and ask what kind of a neighbor Joe McGinniss is going to be. He’ll tell you that you’re lucky it’s me renting this house and not somebody who would do the kind of stuff you’re afraid of.”

    Mcginniss, Joe (2011-09-20). The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin (Kindle Locations 493-496). Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

    Burnell L. Harrison: The second, (the conversation about Palin’s Boss) leads me to think he was a Bully.

  101. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 4, 2014 at 9:01 pm #

    That’s not as informative as it would be in context. Interested readers should read the Wikipedia article.

    The Truth: Judge Ross likened McGinniss’s conduct to that of “a thief in the night” and then corrected himself, saying, “I guess a thief in the night wouldn’t see you. He is more of a con man than he is a thief

  102. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 9:04 pm #

    The Truth: Any writer who would intentionally move in next door so he could write a non-authorized biography about a person (against Palins will) is…….pond scum, dead or alive.

    And you make Doc’s point again.

  103. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 9:04 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: you’re lucky it’s me renting this house and not somebody who would do the kind of stuff you’re afraid of.”

    Thanks. Since I have not read the book, and probably will not, could you tell me if the book actually contains “conjecture that Sarah Palin is not the biological mother of her son” or similar stuff that she might have been afraid of?

  104. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 4, 2014 at 9:05 pm #

    We’re not talking subdivision here. If fact, there was no road access to Palin’s property. They were driving across a neighbor’s property without permission to get to the main road. The Palins had built a tall wooden fence to screen the property from ex cons and drug rehab guys who lived there before.

    Burnell L. Harrison: Consider the difficulties if you had children who roamed the neighborhood. How could you diplomatically tell them that they must not say anything to the new neighbor about Mummy and Daddy to the new neighbor?

  105. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 4, 2014 at 9:08 pm #

    How can a book be “reportedly” heavy on innuendo. It either is or it isn’t. I’m not to the Trig part yet, but what I have read is heavily based on hard facts and named sources, and when sources disagree, he gives both sides.

    The Truth: The book is reportedly heavy on innuendo, including conjecture that Sarah Palin is not the biological mother of her son,

  106. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 9:14 pm #

    Burnell L. Harrison: Thanks.Since I have not read the book, and probably will not, could you tell me if the book actually contains “conjecture that Sarah Palin is not the biological mother of her son” or similar stuff that she might have been afraid of?

    I believe that rumor refers to Trig. As I recall the story was that he was the son of her daughter Bristol. It was widely told in the Palmer-Wasilla area long before McGinniss showed up.

    You will also find mentions of it on the internet in late 2008. Like this one:

    http://voices.yahoo.com/sarah-palin-daughter-bristol-whose-baby-it-1907236.html

  107. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 9:15 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    How can a book be “reportedly” heavy on innuendo. It either is or it isn’t. I’m not to the Trig part yet, but what I have read is heavily based on hard facts and named sources, and when sources disagree, he gives both sides.

    I didn’t write the Wiki article, I simply shared what was on there. At this point It looks to me as if he was no knight in shining armor. If you can show that what the judge said, and, what the reviewers of the Palin book said was inaccurate I will apologize for not researching the Wiki article claims. Once you have the evidence then you can update that page and make it accurate.

  108. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 9:24 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I believe that rumor refers to Trig. As I recall the story was that he was the son of her daughter Bristol. It was widely told in the Palmer-Wasilla area long before McGinniss showed up.

    It was widely told? What does that mean? So, Trig does not have an accurate birth certificate perhaps? I have been held accountable for statements exactly like that so I assume you have evidence, or, the writer of the book had definitive evidence? Sounds like a rumor to me at this point. This is defamatory to Palin unless someone has proof, I certainly hope you see that!

  109. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 4, 2014 at 9:40 pm #

    I’d really love to go on with this, but all good things must end.

    Several things strike me about this conversation.

    The first, is how male-orientated it is. If there is a female sock puppet participating, please reveal yourself. But I don’t think so.

    I hate to use one of Palin’s analogies, because I detest that woman. But there are certain Fact of Nature. I am a big idiot when it comes to Women. But I have learned (sometimes the hard way) that there are certain major biological reactions that happen in the world. I think several of you guys are intelligent, and Doc, at least, is old enough to be experienced. So how can you utterly fail to see that McGinniss was clearly presenting himself as a threat to Palin?

    It does not matter if Trig was a child or a grandchild or a foundling. If this “Respected Author” was positioning himself to be possibly getting information from the children or elsewhere that a woman (any woman really, not just Palin) would perceive as being detrimental to Trig (by reputation or imputation or otherwise), then this “Respected Author” would be perceived as a threat to the children. And a Bully, to boot.

    I challenge you. Hide the identities to remove the politics. Make it “any family” that you know. Then recite to any woman the plain facts of the family situation and what this guy did and said. See if they do not react negatively.

    And what about the rumors that you bring up so gleefully? Are you saying there is something wrong with Trig’s Birth Certificate? Does Orly know about your concerns? How can you possibly differentiate yourself from the Birthers?

    Do we remember the final line of the article at the top of the page? The summing up?

    Quote:

    “Bullying must be vigorously opposed from the start.”

    No S*** Sherlock.

  110. avatar
    Dave April 4, 2014 at 9:43 pm #

    I gather that “The Truth” wants to smear McGinnis as pushing the “Palin is not Trig’s mother” conspiracy theory without checking that McGinnis ever pushed it.

    Let me take this opportunity to say that the this particular CT has that deadly combination of being both dubious and scarcely relevant. I mean, not only is the argument for this theory nothing but conjecture, but even if it were true, so what? The worst you could say about it is that it would reflect poorly on Palin, but seriously, it would be nothing compared to “All of them, Katie.”

  111. avatar
    RanTalbott April 4, 2014 at 9:44 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: How can a book be “reportedly” heavy on innuendo

    By being the subject of juicy gossip that the person repeating it can’t be bothered to check out before doing so.

    Or, as is common among the wingnut press and blogs, doesn’t want to check out because s/he might find out it’s wrong, and lose his/her plausible deniability.

    “It’s been reported that…” is like “In my opinion…” or the Cavuto Mark: a magic incantation that relieves the speaker of blame for spouting vicious lies.

  112. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 9:46 pm #

    The Truth: It was widely told? What does that mean?

    Um, well…..I guess it means just what I said….the rumor was talked about a lot in the Palmer-Wasilla area. What don’t you understand about that?

    The Truth: So, Trig does not have an accurate birth certificate perhaps? I have been held accountable for statements exactly like that so I assume you have evidence, or, the writer of the book had definitive evidence?

    Umm…..I never said it was true and we’ll have to wait for Doc to get further to see if it’s in the book. You’re jumping to conclusions.

    The Truth: Sounds like a rumor to me at this point.

    Ummm……that would probably be why my message starts with “I believe that rumor refers to Trig.”

    The Truth: This is defamatory to Palin unless someone has proof, I certainly hope you see that!

    Ummmm…..what I see is your phoney concern. But just for the record you are aware that it is virtually impossible to defame, in a legal sense, a public figure like Palin…..aren’t you?

  113. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 9:48 pm #

    Crustacean:

    And for your information, this white boy has never walked the mean streets of Detroit or Chicago, but I did spend ten years working in a classroom in Oakland.I had students from many races. I walked the streets – even the “scary” ones – and commuted by bus.I loved the people I met, and I was never knocked out, not even once.Soon after moving to Oaktown, I was embarrassed when I realized how surprised I was at the kindness and respect “minorities” bestowed upon me.That was the latent racism within myself that I had to grow beyond.

    Although this is getting off subject but relevant to your comment. I was in Oakland last June, I stayed at a cheap motel, a motel 6 or Super 8, I don’t recall. It was about 3 miles from the Oakland Coliseum. When I went to leave in the morning, a car about 30 feet away from my rental car had its window shot out some time during the night, the police were there. There was graffiti everywhere you looked. I was glad to get out of there, no doubt about it. I don’t doubt there are mostly good people in Oakland, but I also know it is a very gang ridden territory. This issue needs to be addressed, not with more police or prisons but with education and opportunity just like I stated before.

  114. avatar
    Bob April 4, 2014 at 9:51 pm #

    The Truth: You are wealthy, therefore you should be harassed as punishment?

    McGinnis helped Palin perfect her shtick. She’s claims to be the victim of mean Liberals in books, on tv, live, on the internet, and in a fawning documentary. She kvetches about Cruel Partisan Taunts™ and her fans eat it up.

    More than likely she’s secretly grateful to Mr. McGinnis.

  115. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 4, 2014 at 9:55 pm #

    The Truth: Your a Republican and I am Santa Claus.

    This is why people keep tearing you apart. You make such overreaching assumptions about people here.

  116. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 9:57 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Um, well…..I guess it means just what I said….the rumor was talked about a lot in the Palmer-Wasilla area. What don’t you understand about that?

    Umm…..I never said it was true and we’ll have to wait for Doc to get further to see if it’s in the book. You’re jumping to conclusions.

    Ummm……that would probably be why my message starts with “I believe that rumor refers to Trig.”

    Ummmm…..what I see is your phoney concern. But just for the record you are aware that it is virtually impossible to defame, in a legal sense, a public figure like Palin…..aren’t you?

    You can certainly defame Palin, public figure or not? Since she is reportedly so wealthy, she should have sued him for any slanderous statement in the book (if he made it), but then, maybe she knew he was dying from cancer and passed on it.

    Phony concern? You don’t mind helping spread around rumors, as long as its Palin its ok? The point I am making is you should be held to the same standard you hold me to, or doesn’t that work for you?

  117. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 9:59 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: This is why people keep tearing you apart.You make such overreaching assumptions about people here.

    No, people tear me apart because they do not agree with me. I was wondering when you would show up.

  118. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 4, 2014 at 10:01 pm #

    The Truth: Until I prove it, you may keep slinging your comments over. Trust me, I am working on it and get closer every day. I suppose you will require a bed sheet and DNA to as evidence? Remember Subud, you will be hearing a lot about it in the coming weeks.

    You’ll never prove it since it simply didn’t happen. You can’t even narrow them to within the same block in the same week let alone in the same city during the same time period. What made you actually think Subud had sex with her in the first place other than being crazy?

  119. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 10:06 pm #

    Bob: McGinnis helped Palin perfect her shtick.She’s claims to be the victim of mean Liberals in books, on tv, live, on the internet, and in a fawning documentary.She kvetches about Cruel Partisan Taunts™ and her fans eat it up.

    More than likely she’s secretly grateful to Mr. McGinnis.

    You mean when people on the news say that someone should defecate in her mouth she profits? I am sure anyone would like to make a living that way. I already stated I think she has a low IQ and I do not agree with everything she says, however, If she has built wealth good for her, that’s capitalism, which I much prefer over socialism and communism.

  120. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 4, 2014 at 10:07 pm #

    The Truth: No, people tear me apart because they do not agree with me. I was wondering when you would show up.

    No they tear you apart because you say rather stupid things like subud was Obama’s father. Things that you have no proof of. You then make assumptions about the people here.

  121. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 10:14 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: No they tear you apart because you say rather stupid things like subud was Obama’s father.Things that you have no proof of.You then make assumptions about the people here.

    Actually its Subuh, Subud is the religious cult he created. You are acting like a troll trying to change the topic, not surprising from you though.

  122. avatar
    Thinker April 4, 2014 at 10:20 pm #

    I think “it was widely told” is pretty close to the very definition of the word rumor. Saying people talked about it is not the same as asserting that it is true. The fact is, it was widely told. In 2011, Salon wrote an article debunking all the Trig Truther nonsense, and, among its findings is that there were rumors that Sarah wasn’t really pregnant right from the time she announced her pregnancy. I think the rumors were driven at least in part by the creepy hick factor of her and her daughter being pregnant at the same time.

    I doubt you would be able to see how birthers fall into the same types of flawed thinking that Trig Truthers do, but it’s an interesting article highlighting a lot of the pitfalls that conspiracy theorists tend to fall victim to like getting caught up in details that don’t tell enough of the story, focusing on small inconsistencies in the midst of a consistent bigger story, drawing conclusions about ways things should be done based on no particular knowledge of the issue and, ultimately, choosing to believe absurd things about people because they just don’t like them. http://www.salon.com/2011/04/22/sarah_palin_trig_conspiracy_theory/

    The Truth: It was widely told? What does that mean? So, Trig does not have an accurate birth certificate perhaps? I have been held accountable for statements exactly like that so I assume you have evidence, or, the writer of the book had definitive evidence? Sounds like a rumor to me at this point. This is defamatory to Palin unless someone has proof, I certainly hope you see that!

  123. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 10:21 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: You’ll never prove it since it simply didn’t happen.You can’t even narrow them to within the same block in the same week let alone in the same city during the same time period.What made you actually think Subud had sex with her in the first place other than being crazy?

    Funny, off topic again, not shocking. Troll somewhere else. The topic here is supposed to be violent thread posts as it also relates to Plain apparently.

  124. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 4, 2014 at 10:22 pm #

    The Truth: You can certainly defame Palin, public figure or not? Since she is reportedly so wealthy, she should have sued him for any slanderous statement in the book (if he made it), but then, maybe she knew he was dying from cancer and passed on it.

    Or………maybe……………what I said is more accurate. A public figure like Palin has just about zero chance of succeeding in a defamation case.

    The Truth: Phony concern? You don’t mind helping spread around rumors, as long as its Palin its ok? The point I am making is you should be held to the same standard you hold me to, or doesn’t that work for you?

    Well……the difference is that what I have written about has been on the public record for years.

    What I see from you is knee jerk reaction and ill informed comment.

  125. avatar
    The Truth April 4, 2014 at 10:38 pm #

    Thinker:
    I think “it was widely told” is pretty close to the very definition of the word rumor. Saying people talked about it is not the same as asserting that it is true. The fact is, it was widely told. In 2011, Salon wrote an article debunking all the Trig Truther nonsense, and, among its findings is that there were rumors that Sarah wasn’t really pregnant right from the time she announced her pregnancy. I think the rumors were driven at least in part by the creepy hick factor of her and her daughter being pregnant at the same time.

    I doubt you would be able to see how birthers fall into the same types of flawed thinking that Trig Truthers do, but it’s an interesting article highlighting a lot of the pitfalls that conspiracy theorists tend to fall victim to like getting caught up in details that don’t tell enough of the story, focusing on small inconsistencies in the midst of a consistent bigger story, drawing conclusions about ways things should be done based on no particular knowledge of the issue and, ultimately, choosing to believe absurd things about people because they just don’t like them.http://www.salon.com/2011/04/22/sarah_palin_trig_conspiracy_theory/

    I would agree that if you look at the context of a statement, all of it must be considered. How you present a statement can be interpreted many ways. If I say “it is widely told that Palin did not have a son, it was really her daughters” that is different from saying ” Unsubstantiated stories have been told that Palin did not have a son, it was really her daughters” Now, also take into context that people here in prior thread have called Palin a Pig amongst other names, they have stated its ok to have a controversial writer move next door to do an unauthorized biography of her. How do you read that statement looking at it again. There was clear intent by the person who said that to spread a rumor further, or at the very least hope that it is true and bias the statement.

  126. avatar
    Keith April 4, 2014 at 11:58 pm #

    The Truth: That makes it even worse!!! That shows this guy intentionally moved to be close to Palin. He cant research for a book unless he lives next door? He cant live only 40 miles away? Wow, unbelievable.

    No.

    He rented a house in Matanuska Valley to be close to people he was interviewing. He was not interviewing the Palins. It just happened that the house that was available was next door to the Palins.

    He was completely open with his neighbors, told them exactly why he was there and offered them character references from someone they knew and could trust. A guy planning on spying his neighbors does not do that.

    If your mindset is stuck on seeing conspiracies everywhere, then that is what you will see; but the simple fact is that there are not conspiracies everywhere. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes people are just living their lives and doing their best.

  127. avatar
    Keith April 5, 2014 at 12:02 am #

    The Truth: Unfortunately here is a link showing 60% of the prison population is minorities.

    http://www.researchomatic.com/The-Disproportionate-Minority-Prison-Populations-2123.html#buytopicstep

    There are many reasons why I suppose, from rich whites don’t go to prison to the good old boy police state.

    Another problem for you is that you are equating prison population to violent criminals.

    The majority of the prison population is NOT there for violent crime. Minorities are imprisoned at a much higher rate that whites for non-violent crimes and especially for victimless crimes.

    Furthermore, your link goes to an abstract that makes an assertion, and promises to discuss the reason, but that discussion is behind a paywall. So you cannot draw any conclusions from the precis at all.

  128. avatar
    Keith April 5, 2014 at 12:13 am #

    The Truth: One the whole, if a black guy walked into an all white neighborhood I suspect the worst treatment would be calling the police if this person looked suspicious.

    OK, I’ll play that card… ask Trayvon Martin how that worked out.

  129. avatar
    Keith April 5, 2014 at 12:15 am #

    CarlOrcas: Now…..try answering my question: If you were going to spend time in Alaska to write about Sarah Palin which city would you live in?

    Is Whitehorse an option?

  130. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 12:26 am #

    I just got home and I was about to post that same thing. Many are non-violent drug offenders. Minorities tend to be sentenced much harsher for such crimes. White and blacks smoke pot at the same percentage of population, yet blacks are arrested at a much higher rate. Plus whites tend to get a slap on the wrist, usually by arranging for rehab before sentencing. That last statement on rehab is just an educated guess based on observation.

    Keith: Another problem for you is that you are equating prison population to violent criminals.

    The majority of the prison population is NOT for violent crime. Minorities are imprisoned at a much higher rate that whites for non-violent crimes and especially for victimless crimes.

  131. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 12:34 am #

    The Truth do you mind if I ask your age? You sound like you are part of the only audience that Fox News can get to watch their network. The scared elderly audience. (No offense to the elderly, just the ones that are scared of most everything foreign to them, especially those scary minorities)

  132. avatar
    Rickey April 5, 2014 at 12:35 am #

    Keith: No.

    He rented a house in Matanuska Valley to be close to people he was interviewing. He was not interviewing the Palins. It just happened that the house that was available was next door to the Palins.

    He was completely open with his neighbors, told them exactly why he was there and offered them character references from someone they knew and could trust. A guy planning on spying his neighbors does not do that.

    If your mindset is stuck on seeing conspiracies everywhere, then that is what you will see; but the simple fact is that there are not conspiracies everywhere. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes people are just living their lives and doing their best.

    “The Truth” should be made aware that the entire first chapter of the book, in which McGinness explains how he ended up living next to the Palins, can be read for free at Amazon.

    http://www.amazon.com/Rogue-Searching-Real-Sarah-Palin-ebook/dp/B004J4WNIA/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396672450&sr=1-1&keywords=the+rogue+mcginness

  133. avatar
    Rickey April 5, 2014 at 12:38 am #

    JRC:
    I just got home and I was about to post that same thing.Many are non-violent drug offenders.Minorities tend to be sentenced much harsher for such crimes.White and blacks smoke pot at the same percentage of population, yet blacks are arrested at a much higher rate.Plus whites tend to get a slap on the wrist, usually by arranging for rehab before sentencing.That last statement on rehab is just an educated guess based on observation.

    It’s also a matter of legal representation. Whites are more likely to be able to hire defense attorneys, whereas minorities are more likely to have to make do with overworked court-appointed attorneys.

  134. avatar
    Keith April 5, 2014 at 12:43 am #

    The Truth: This issue needs to be addressed, not with more police or prisons but with education and opportunity just like I stated before.

    Excellent sentiment.

    Can you give us a clue how that is going to happen while psuedo-conservatives plunder the education budget in every state? I’m sure you are actively opposing the destruction of the American education system, the system that uniquely ‘made America great’ and has been under siege from psuedo-Cons and Libertarians all across the country for four decades. That is right, isn’t it?

    Do you remember 2008? Did you have children in school back then? Did you know somebody who had children in school back then? Do you remember when President Obama sought to address the children of America to encourage them to stay in school, work hard, and take their role as the future of America seriously.

    I guess you made sure your kids were in school that day or you encouraged your friends to make sure their kids were there to listen to the President of the United States tell them the education and hard work was the way to take advantage of opportunity? And I bet you were on the internet all day pooh-poohing the folks that thought the President was trying to brainwash kids with that message weren’t you? That’s right isn’t it?

  135. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 12:47 am #

    Agreed. Many factors. Police tend to target minorities. Example stop and frisk in New York which I find completely unconstitutional no matter the race, but minorities are disproportionately targeted. Social economic reasons as you point out.

    Anyway, The Truth had to change the subject to people in Prison when his original statement was that minorities commit more violent crimes. He of course was wrong once again.

    Rickey: It’s also a matter of legal representation. Whites are more likely to be able to hire defense attorneys, whereas minorities are more likely to have to make do with overworked court-appointed attorneys.

  136. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 1:01 am #

    Keith: Excellent sentiment.

    Can you give us a clue how that is going to happen while psuedo-conservatives plunder the education budget in every state? I’m sure you are actively opposing the destruction of the American education system, the system that uniquely ‘made America great’ and has been under siege from psuedo-Cons and Libertarians all across the country for four decades. That is right, isn’t it?

    As a Libertarian I would like to address this part of your comment. I’m not looking to destroy the educational system. I’m not even against public schools. I’d like to see students have a choice though, instead of “you live in this school district so you have to go to this school.” Luckily in my State a child can attend any public school that they choose instead of being locked into a school because of where they live. I know not all children can take advantage of that because of transportation, but I think that is a step in the right direction by creating a competitive environment among the public schools to provide the best education possible.

  137. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 5, 2014 at 1:11 am #

    The Truth: Actually its Subuh, Subud is the religious cult he created. You are acting like a troll trying to change the topic, not surprising from you though.

    Funny how you suddenly care for what the topic is when you’re backed into a corner.

  138. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 5, 2014 at 1:17 am #

    There you would be wrong.

    Burnell L. Harrison: The first, is how male-orientated it is. If there is a female sock puppet participating, please reveal yourself. But I don’t think so.

  139. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 1:21 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    There you would be wrong.

    Amazing how wrong these birthers are about just about everything. And here I thought maybe it was just somehow that they fell for the birther stuff. But alas no.

  140. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 5, 2014 at 1:23 am #

    Ninety percent of this thread is off-topic bullshit, and I’m just going to ignore it.

    But on-topic, addressing Doc’s actual post and actual point:

    Let us stipulate, arguendo, that Joe McGinnis deliberately sought out a home near The Failed Former Half-Term Governor. Let’s go ahead and stipulate, arguendo, that he would have paid top dollar to rent the home next door to her, and got really, really lucky that the owner of the home doesn’t much like Princess Dumbass of the North Woods and was willing to rent it to him at a discount instead.

    Let us further stipulate, again, solely for the purposes of the argument, that McGinnis has a reputation as an egotistical dick, that may even be a deserved reputation.

    Does any of this justify Caribou Barbie flat-out lying about McGinnis’ view of her house? Or her deliberately implying to her crazed followers that McGinnis was somehow looking in her children’s windows? Does any of this justify the violent rhetoric, including countless death threats, that Bible Spice’s winged monkeys of hate directed at McGinnis?

    The only morally correct answer, of course, is no. The Alaskan Evita knew exactly what she was doing when she lied about McGinnis. Inciting hatred was her goal all along, and she’s really, really good at it.

    And that’s what Doc’s post was all about. All the rest is a threadrupt started by a single troll who is unable to defend his positions any other way.

  141. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 5, 2014 at 1:23 am #

    What McGinniss allegedly did (and the jury was unable to reach a verdict) could reasonably be viewed as unethical or a legitimate tactic. The judge had his opinion, but value judgments are neither or wrong.

    The Truth: If you can show that what the judge said,

  142. avatar
    Keith April 5, 2014 at 1:51 am #

    JRC: As a Libertarian I would like to address this part of your comment.I’m not looking to destroy the educational system.I’m not even against public schools.I’d like to see students have a choice though, instead of “you live in this school district so you have to go to this school.”Luckily in my State a child can attend any public school that they choose instead of being locked into a school because of where they live.I know not all children can take advantage of that because of transportation, but I think that is a step in the right direction by creating a competitive environment among the public schools to provide the best education possible.

    OK.

    It turns out that kids have ALWAYS been able to do that in Arizona. My sister went to a school outside ‘our’ district because she didn’t like our local school. There was no hassle at all; she just went down and registered herself (without telling my parents I might add) and started going to school. When her school noticed she didn’t live in the district they contacted ‘our’ district and they just said ‘Why didn’t you tell us?’ and made it right with the other district. If that isn’t choice I don’t know what is – and that was in the early 1960′s.

    There are other choices too. Catholic schools in Arizona, and least in Tucson, are excellent. There are other Christian and non-denominational private schools too.

    So why have Libertarians’ (and various allies) destroyed what was once one of the best public school systems in the world? That is not an exaggeration. Tucson schools were rated world class when I went through it, and I would have put up my experience against anyones; now they are struggling mightily just to stay off of the bottom rung in the country.

    Your ‘desire for choice’ is disingenuous at best. Choice is there and always has been. The demand for choice in the argument about American schools is a dog whistle for ‘I want my kids to get all the resources, and everybody else can go to hell’. It really boils down to nothing more than that. You may not want to admit it, but your ‘desire for choice’ is a very misguided reaction to the busing controversies of the 70′s. This reaction could be construed as racist, and for a lot of people is pure and simple racism. There are certainly other possible motivations – I am not attributing your view to racism – however I do think you should carefully consider the history of where those policies came from.

    Tucson School District Number 1 has a lot of high schools. Just to name a few, there is Pueblo High School and Tucson High School (lotta dark skinned folks on the west side of town) as well as Sahuaro and Palo Verde (the east side – that’s our kind of folk). Heck, we might actually end up having to swap some students at some point in order to provide a better education to everyone. We can’t have ‘our’ kids mixing with ‘those’ kids now can we?

    If you want parents to have a choice in their schools, they always had that in Arizona, so there is no need to destroy the Arizona public school system to accomplish that. You realize that the busing issue was all about people wanting to have a choice of where they went to school don’t you? The black kids (or latino kids or whatever) wanted to go to a good school, but they were prevented from it whether by location or income or local law doesn’t matter; they didn’t have a choice.

    Where was your Libertarian ideal of ‘choice of school’ back when black parents were fighting for their rights to the ‘choice of school’? Why is it now being used to take away their choice and to deny them the quality education they not only want and have a right to, but must have to ensure the continuing viability of the “American Dream” and our society (indeed if not civilization itself)?

    The number one priority of ANY society is to educate each generation of children to ensure the continuation of that society. There is no higher cause for a society. The American education system served for 200 years to make America the envy of everyone on the planet. Libertarian ideology has served for 40 years to destroy that which has made America great.

  143. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 5, 2014 at 2:09 am #

    JRC: Dr. Conspiracy:
    There you would be wrong.

    JRC
    Amazing how wrong these birthers are about just about everything. And here I thought maybe it was just somehow that they fell for the birther stuff. But alas no.

    JRC: I don’t get your logical leap. A small handful of us were discussing the issue of whether McGinniss could be perceived to be a Bully. The ones that were directly in that thread were Doc, myself, “Truth”, “Orcas”, and maybe one or two others. I said that I did not think there was a female sock puppet in that group. Doc tells me I am wrong. I accept that, though I am curious as to which one(s) of those is female.

    But because I was wrong about that, makes me a Birther? How did that miracle happen?

  144. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 2:21 am #

    Keith: OK.

    It turns out that kids have ALWAYS been able to do that in Arizona. My sister went to a school outside ‘our’ district because she didn’t like our local school. There was no hassle at all; she just went down and registered herself (without telling my parents I might add) and started going to school. When her school noticed she didn’t live in the district they contacted ‘our’ district and they just said ‘Why didn’t you tell us?’ and made it right with the other district. If that isn’t choice I don’t know what is – and that was in the early 1960′s.

    There are other choices too. Catholic schools in Arizona, and least in Tucson, are excellent. There are other Christian and non-denominational private schools too.

    So why have Libertarians’ (and various allies) destroyed what was once one of the best public school systems in the world? That is not an exaggeration. Tucson schools were rated world class when I went through it, and I would have put up my experience against anyones; now they are struggling mightily just to stay off of the bottom rung in the country.

    Your ‘desire for choice’ is disingenuous at best. Choice is there and always has been. The demand for choice in the argument about American schools is a dog whistle for ‘I want my kids to get all the resources, and everybody else can go to hell’. It really boils down to nothing more than that. You may not want to admit it, but your ‘desire for choice’ is a very misguided reaction to the busing controversies of the 70′s. This reaction could be construed as racist, and for a lot of people is pure and simple racism. There are certainly other possible motivations – I am not attributing your view to racism – however I do think you should carefully consider the history of where those policies came from.

    Tucson School District Number 1 has a lot of high schools. Just to name a few, there is Pueblo High School and Tucson High School (lotta dark skinned folks on the west side of town) as well as Sahuaro and Palo Verde (the east side – that’s our kind of folk). Heck, we might actually end up having to swap some students at some point in order to provide a better education to everyone. We can’t have ‘our’ kids mixing with ‘those’ kids now can we?

    If you want parents to have a choice in their schools, they always had that in Arizona, so there is no need to destroy the Arizona public school system to accomplish that. You realize that the busing issue was all about people wanting to have a choice of where they went to school don’t you? The black kids (or latino kids or whatever) wanted to go to a good school, but they were prevented from it whether by location or income or local law doesn’t matter; they didn’t have a choice.

    Where was your Libertarian ideal of ‘choice of school’ back when black parents were fighting for their rights to the ‘choice of school’? Why is it now being used to take away their choice and to deny them the quality education they not only want and have a right to, but must have to ensure the continuing viability of the “American Dream” and our society (indeed if not civilization itself)?

    The number one priority of ANY society is to educate each generation of children to ensure the continuation of that society. There is no higher cause for a society. The American education system served for 200 years to make America the envy of everyone on the planet. Libertarian ideology has served for 40 years to destroy that which has made America great.

    Well that was a lot to reply to. I want everyone to have equal opportunity for a good education especially in public schools. I don’t think the government has a responsibility to give everyone a private education. I’m thinking of areas where property tax is a major factor in the money taken in by the school district, and if a child lives in an area with lower property value that school has less resources available to them as far as budget. I think that child shouldn’t be locked into that situation. I suppose Arizona is different. Until recently you went to school where you lived here. Arizona is run by Republicans not Libertarians…that might be the problem.

  145. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 2:25 am #

    Burnell L. Harrison: JRC: I don’t get your logical leap.A small handful of us were discussing the issue of whether McGinniss could be perceived to be a Bully. The ones that were directly in that thread were Doc, myself, “Truth”, “Orcas”, and maybe one or two others.I said that I did not think there was a female sock puppetin that group.Doc tells me I am wrong. I accept that, though I am curious as to which one(s) of those is female.

    But because I was wrong about that, makes me a Birther? How did that miracle happen?

    My apologies. I made a stupid comment.

  146. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 5, 2014 at 2:35 am #

    Burnell L. Harrison: Thanks. Since I have not read the book, and probably will not, could you tell me if the book actually contains “conjecture that Sarah Palin is not the biological mother of her son” or similar stuff that she might have been afraid of?

    Doc, I am still hoping that you can answer this first hand, since you have read the book. My feeling, to be clear, is that the children of politicians should be off limits to “Respected Authors” or others who might seek to get at the parents (or simply make money) through the kids. I did find an interesting statement in Slate that bears on this.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2011/09/rogue_author.2.html

    Quote from David Weigle from Rogue Author:

    “In a long section about rumors that Sarah Palin’s son Trig is not hers, McGinniss wonders why, the day Palin’s water broke, Todd Palin seemingly used his BlackBerry only to talk about how “her speech kicked ass.” McGinniss gives the theories about Trig’s birth plenty of space.”

  147. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 5, 2014 at 2:37 am #

    JRC: My apologies. I made a stupid comment.

    No problem. Stupid comments are not unknown on the inter tubes. Apologies are much more rarely sighted.

  148. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 3:02 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    What McGinniss allegedly did (and the jury was unable to reach a verdict) could reasonably be viewed as unethical or a legitimate tactic. The judge had his opinion, but value judgments are neither or wrong.

    You forgot to mention that book cost his publishers insurance company $325,000. Insurance companies don’t pay that kind of money for no reason. I have only sat in on four jury trials, three as a juror, one as a witness. I have not heard a judge make any remark like that. I’m sure it happens but there must be a reason the judge felt compelled to make that type of harsh statement?

  149. avatar
    Lani April 5, 2014 at 3:08 am #

    I think when Doc reaches the part of the book about Trig’s birth, he’ll see that it’s about the absurd claims made first by Palin’s dad and then by her, with lots of added embellishment. It’s more about her problems with honesty than with faking parenthood. Story: High risk pregnancy, water breaks, Palin gives a speech through her contractions, makes the long trek to Alaska from the SW while now in several hours of labor, bypasses the NICU hospital to give birth in a small regional hospital with a GP. What a gal! And what a bunch of hogwash!

  150. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 3:10 am #

    JRC:
    The Truth do you mind if I ask your age?You sound like you are part of the only audience that Fox News can get to watch their network.The scared elderly audience.(No offense to the elderly, just the ones that are scared of most everything foreign to them, especially those scary minorities)

    I am too young to quit, and too old to start over. You did make me laugh, somehow I think you have the vision that I am an old Archie Bunker bigot that is paranoid of everyone but whites. I actually watch CNN for most of the news, the rest I get off the internet…..since I am so old. Should I know assume you are young and watch MSNBC? Thanks again for the laugh.

  151. avatar
    Lani April 5, 2014 at 3:12 am #

    The Truth: You forgot to mention that book cost his publishers insurance company $325,000. Insurance companies don’t pay that kind of money for no reason. I have only sat in on four jury trials, three as a juror, one as a witness. I have not heard a judge make any remark like that. I’m sure it happens but there must be a reason the judge felt compelled to make that type of harsh statement?

    Apparently you don’t know the cost of lawsuits. Settle and move on is a common practice. It’s unfortunate and perhaps causes more litigation for the occasional easy big settlement, but that’s the system we currently have. Insurers do a cost analysis and offer a figure.

  152. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 3:23 am #

    Bonsall Obot:
    Ninety percent of this thread is off-topic bullshit, and I’m just going to ignore it.

    But on-topic, addressing Doc’s actual post and actual point:

    Let us stipulate, arguendo, that Joe McGinnis deliberately sought out a home near The Failed Former Half-Term Governor. Let’s go ahead and stipulate, arguendo, that he would have paid top dollar to rent the home next door to her, and got really, really lucky that the owner of the home doesn’t much like Princess Dumbass of the North Woods and was willing to rent it to him at a discount instead.

    Let us further stipulate, again, solely for the purposes of the argument, that McGinnis has a reputation as an egotistical dick, that may even be a deserved reputation.

    Does any of this justify Caribou Barbie flat-out lying about McGinnis’ view of her house? Or her deliberately implying to her crazed followers that McGinnis was somehow looking in her children’s windows? Does any of this justify the violent rhetoric, including countless death threats, that Bible Spice’s winged monkeys of hate directed at McGinnis?

    The only morally correct answer, of course, is no. The Alaskan Evita knew exactly what she was doing when she lied about McGinnis. Inciting hatred was her goal all along, and she’s really, really good at it.

    And that’s what Doc’s post was all about. All the rest is a threadrupt started by a single troll who is unable to defend his positions any other way.

    Back to the name calling? I must admit, you are good at it. Apparently you think its ok for this guy to move into a situation that surely he knew would turn south? Maybe I am giving him to much credit and he wasn’t that smart. If Palin wanted her biography written she would hire someone to help her, she didn’t ask for the creeper to move next door. If she did lie, she was defending her family, do you have an issue with that also?

  153. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 3:29 am #

    Lani: Apparently you don’t know the cost of lawsuits.Settle and move on is a common practice.It’s unfortunate and perhaps causes more litigation for the occasional easy big settlement, but that’s the system we currently have.Insurers do a cost analysis and offer a figure.

    I am well aware of attorney costs, I own a business. I also have dealt with an insurance company for a major fire loss at my business, I know they don’t like to pay unless forced to. I nearly lost my business because of the insurance company dragging their feet and fighting every legitimate dime cost incurred, thus more attorney fees for me also.

  154. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 3:31 am #

    Keith: OK.

    It turns out that kids have ALWAYS been able to do that in Arizona. My sister went to a school outside ‘our’ district because she didn’t like our local school. There was no hassle at all; she just went down and registered herself (without telling my parents I might add) and started going to school. When her school noticed she didn’t live in the district they contacted ‘our’ district and they just said ‘Why didn’t you tell us?’ and made it right with the other district. If that isn’t choice I don’t know what is – and that was in the early 1960′s.

    I suppose that was before the Department of Education was established, nothing against the idea, but still.

    There are other choices too. Catholic schools in Arizona, and least in Tucson, are excellent. There are other Christian and non-denominational private schools too.

    Agreed, I don’t believe that the government should be using taxpayer money for private education especially religious private education

    So why have Libertarians’ (and various allies) destroyed what was once one of the best public school systems in the world? That is not an exaggeration. Tucson schools were rated world class when I went through it, and I would have put up my experience against anyones; now they are struggling mightily just to stay off of the bottom rung in the country.

    I don’t see how this Libertarian plot has any foundation. Have we taken over every school board or something that I’m not aware of?

    Your ‘desire for choice’ is disingenuous at best.

    Wow, disingenuous at best? Can’t it be disingenuous at the least? It’s not disingenuous at all.

    Choice is there and always has been. The demand for choice in the argument about American schools is a dog whistle for ‘I want my kids to get all the resources, and everybody else can go to hell’.

    No I don’t want anyone to go to hell, and I want the poor kid to have the same opportunity as the rich kid. If that poor kid wants to go to the same school as a rich kind that is funded by taxes then the poor kid has every right to go to it.

    It really boils down to nothing more than that. You may not want to admit it, but your ‘desire for choice’ is a very misguided reaction to the busing controversies of the 70′s. This reaction could be construed as racist, and for a lot of people is pure and simple racism. There are certainly other possible motivations – I am not attributing your view to racism – however I do think you should carefully consider the history of where those policies came from.

    I don’t think that we should taxi every kid to and from school because they want to go to that school, but I think that every kid should be allowed to any school funded with tax payer money. I’m not sure why you want to put the 70′s controversy on my shoulders when I think those kids had every right to go to whatever school they wanted even if the white people opposed it.

    Tucson School District Number 1 has a lot of high schools. Just to name a few, there is Pueblo High School and Tucson High School (lotta dark skinned folks on the west side of town) as well as Sahuaro and Palo Verde (the east side – that’s our kind of folk). Heck, we might actually end up having to swap some students at some point in order to provide a better education to everyone. We can’t have ‘our’ kids mixing with ‘those’ kids now can we?

    Why can’t those kids go to the school? I thought they could if they wanted? You said Arizona allowed going to schools out of your school district.

    If you want parents to have a choice in their schools, they always had that in Arizona, so there is no need to destroy the Arizona public school system to accomplish that. You realize that the busing issue was all about people wanting to have a choice of where they went to school don’t you? The black kids (or latino kids or whatever) wanted to go to a good school, but they were prevented from it whether by location or income or local law doesn’t matter; they didn’t have a choice.

    Yes, and I think they should be able to go to good schools. I’m not sure how I said anything different. Is it the transportation part?

    Where was your Libertarian ideal of ‘choice of school’ back when black parents were fighting for their rights to the ‘choice of school’? Why is it now being used to take away their choice and to deny them the quality education they not only want and have a right to, but must have to ensure the continuing viability of the “American Dream” and our society (indeed if not civilization itself)?

    Never said anything otherwise.

    The number one priority of ANY society is to educate each generation of children to ensure the continuation of that society. There is no higher cause for a society. The American education system served for 200 years to make America the envy of everyone on the planet. Libertarian ideology has served for 40 years to destroy that which has made America great.

    Wow, I think you can blame the Republicans, and Democrats for that way more than the Libertarians. Heck you’d have more money from the not going to useless wars if you listened to us. Talking trillions to spend on education.

  155. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 3:44 am #

    The Truth: I am too young to quit, and too old to start over. You did make me laugh, somehow I think you have the vision that I am an old Archie Bunker bigot that is paranoid of everyone but whites. I actually watch CNN for most of the news, the rest I get off the internet…..since I am so old. Should I know assume you are young and watch MSNBC? Thanks again for the laugh.

    I watch a bit of everything….a little Fox News, a little MSNBC, a little CNN, a little Comedy Central. Honestly Comedy Central is probably the most honest out of them, and with the extra laughs. (Yes not everything they say is fact, speaking of all of them) :) Nah I didn’t vision you as Archie Bunker, he would have drove through Detroit without being scared.

  156. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 5, 2014 at 4:07 am #

    Lani: Story: High risk pregnancy, water breaks, Palin gives a speech through her contractions, makes the long trek to Alaska from the SW while now in several hours of labor, bypasses the NICU hospital to give birth in a small regional hospital with a GP.

    Sounds a bit like what birthers claim Obama’s mother did to have her child in Kenya. ;)

  157. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 4:10 am #

    The Truth: I am well aware of attorney costs, I own a business. I also have dealt with an insurance company for a major fire loss at my business, I know they don’t like to pay unless forced to. I nearly lost my business because of the insurance company dragging their feet and fighting every legitimate dime cost incurred, thus more attorney fees for me also.

    Seriously, no….insurance companies pay out to avoid bigger cost when they feel it isn’t worth risking it. Your situation probably was a nickel and dime case because they didn’t have a risk of anything more than the actual value. So no you are wrong once again, insurance companies do settle often when they feel the risk isn’t worth the possibility of a jury judgement on damages and the uphill battle and cost of appealing the jury’s decision.

  158. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 4:17 am #

    Lani: Apparently you don’t know the cost of lawsuits.Settle and move on is a common practice.It’s unfortunate and perhaps causes more litigation for the occasional easy big settlement, but that’s the system we currently have.Insurers do a cost analysis and offer a figure.

    Sorry I basically repeated exactly what you said with different words. Maybe The Truth will understand one of the versions.

  159. avatar
    Kate April 5, 2014 at 4:19 am #

    Burnell L. Harrison: I did not phrase that very well.But I think you know what I meant.According to DC, McGinniss mentioned her Boss, in a context that was bound to be intimidating and threatening.

    So you would be perfectly OK if a person who had attacked you in print moved in next door and let it be known that they were writing a book about you, and got a message to you that they knew your boss, just in case you “had concerns”.

    You might think that is perfectly OK, but statistically speaking, the vast majority of people would not.Personally, I would inform the police, and move my family to a motel until The Bully was out of the picture.

    There was nothing intimidating or threatening in McGinniss’ comment about telling Palin that she could call her boss, Roger Ailes, who had been a long-time friend of JM and it was meant to reassure her. Palin LIED from day one, claiming JM was taking pictures and spying on her teen daughters yet it’s impossible to see into Palin’s home from the side of the house JM was on. She’s a bitch who can dish it out but cries foul whenever anyone retaliates. As far as the Wasilla PD goes, they kept an eye on the area where JM was renting due to the numerous threats leveled at him by Palin’s family & friends. WPD also offered to lend JM whatever firearms he wanted for his own protection and weren’t the only ones to provide offers of protection against Palin with firearms, a offers of another place to stay if he felt uneasy at any time and more. Palin is well-known for her bullying tactics and hasn’t built up a group of friends, only those who are dependent on her or Todd for jobs and other nefarious activities.

    As far as the rental of the house, JM wanted to be in Wasilla where Palin grew up, not an hour away in Anchorage. The owner of the rental house contacted McGinniss and offered him the rental. Strange that Palin was so upset about someone living next door to her considering she spent over 3/4 of the time he was there in Arizona, as previously arranged. JM didn’t chase them away as Palin was trying to accuse him of doing. Palin would be far more apt to return to Wasilla sooner than expected to drum up publicity. She needs that SarahPAC $$$ coming in to pay her many costly consultants who attempt to make her look qualified to run for office. It didn’t work when she was running for V.P. and she’s reveals herself to be an imbecile whenever she opens her mouth.

    Palin didn’t decline to sue JM because of his illness. You can’t sue for slander when it’s nothing but truth being told.

    I pray that JM is resting in peace and I’m thankful his book was released in time to stop Palin from any further attempts to run for office.

  160. avatar
    Lani April 5, 2014 at 4:24 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in): Sounds a bit like what birthers claim Obama’s mother did to have her child in Kenya.

    LOL, I didn’t think about that, but yes! The amazing super birth moms! They can give birth across thousands of miles!

  161. avatar
    Keith April 5, 2014 at 7:22 am #

    JRC:

    I suppose that was before the Department of Education was established, nothing against the idea, but still.

    Not exactly, no. The Department of Education was established in 1867 to promote the cause of education and collect and disseminate facts and statistics about education. Until it was transferred to the FSA, the Office of Education and its predecessor organization had been part of the Department of the Interior. The DoE was folded into the Federal Security Administration in 1939 during the Roosevelt administration. The FSA was remodeled a few times, and then in 1953 under Eisenhower it became the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare. Finally in 1983, the Department of Education was promoted to cabinette level status. What does any of that have to do with whether or not students have or have not had choice of schools? As I said, education is the single most important task that a society must undertake to ensure its preservation. Recognition of this simple fact by making it a cabinette level priority for our nation ‘only’ took 200 years of our Constitutional Government.

    Agreed, I don’t believe that the government should be using taxpayer money for private education especially religious private education

    But complete that thought. Libertarian ideology doesn’t believe that taxpayer money should be spent on public education either; nor does it believe that there should be national standards for performance.

    I don’t see how this Libertarian plot has any foundation. Have we taken over every school board or something that I’m not aware of?

    You have certainly tried, and yes you have succeeded in a lot of places. Your po-face is disengenious, Libertarianism is an ideology, not a political party at odds with ‘traditional’ parties. You may consider yourself as a apparatchik of some formally organized ‘Libertarian Party’, but others are not. You cannot, for example, embrace the education policies of Paul Rand and then claim that others who also embrace Rand’s policies (Arizona Republicans for example) get it wrong because they are not Libertarians. Your ideology is the same: destruction of the American education system for a reason known only to yourself and your own private ‘enlightened self interest’.

    Wow, disingenuous at best? Can’t it be disingenuous at the least? It’s not disingenuous at all.

    No. I judge it to be completely disengenious. Your claim (below) that Arizona’s Education system is deteriorating because Republicans are running it instead of Libertarians is proof enough for me. You want to destroy the American education system, but it isn’t destroyed properly unless it is destroyed by a Libertarian Politial Party instead of by a political party run by fanatics with the same misanthropic ideology is really, really disengenious.

    No I don’t want anyone to go to hell, and I want the poor kid to have the same opportunity as the rich kid. If that poor kid wants to go to the same school as a rich kind that is funded by taxes then the poor kid has every right to go to it.

    Only the Libertarian ideology is that there should not be any schools that are funded by taxes. Which makes your pious claim disengenious.

    I don’t think that we should taxi every kid to and from school because they want to go to that school, but I think that every kid should be allowed to any school funded with tax payer money. I’m not sure why you want to put the 70?s controversy on my shoulders when I think those kids had every right to go to whatever school they wanted even if the white people opposed it.

    I rode a school bus to school nearly every day of my school life until I was old enough to get a driver’s license and could talk my dad into letting me use his spare car. Not a taxi; Tucson taxis are horrible. Most kids in America catch a bus to school; you want them to walk? The old complaints you used to hear from granddad come to mind “I remember, back in my day we had to ride a horse to school, if we were lucky. In the winter it was so cold the snow was blue and my little sister had to ride on a sled pulled by badgers we woke up from hibernation just so she could get to school on time.” Spare me your poorly thought out self-justification. Rationalization is self-delusion.

    Why can’t those kids go to the school? I thought they could if they wanted? You said Arizona allowed going to schools out of your school district.

    That paragraph was poorly written sarcasm. It missed its mark, however pointed.

    Yes, and I think they should be able to go to good schools. I’m not sure how I said anything different. Is it the transportation part?

    You claimed to be a Libertarian. Libertarian ideology includes the promotion of private schools at the expense of publicly funded school systems. While there is nothing wrong with promotion of private schools, there is everything wrong with the destruction of the Public school system – it is un-American in the extreme.

    Never said anything otherwise.

    Never said anything otherwise to what? That Libertarian ideology is fundamentally anti-public education? Yes I know, that is what I am trying to point out to you. You claim to believe that everyone should go to the school of their choice, but the ideology you espouse seeks to remove any possibility of choice by destroying quality on the one hand and affordability on the other.

    Wow, I think you can blame the Republicans, and Democrats for that way more than the Libertarians. Heck you’d have more money from the not going to useless wars if you listened to us. Talking trillions to spend on education.

    See? Libertarianism is an ideology, not a ‘viable’ political party; Arizona Republicans have embraced Libertarian ideology and are demonstrating that that ideology is destructive and inhuman. I know you will bristle at that concept, but you know it is true. The Libertarian Party does not exist to be in power, it exists to serve as a stalking horse, nothing more. It is no coincidence that TEA pary Republicans tend to identify as Libertarians, it is because they ARE.

    If you really think there is some ideologic difference between you and the Republicans, then you better get out there and show what that difference is. Your ‘buddy’ Rand Paul runs as a Republican, talks like he despises you, but he is running on all your policies, and the farther he goes the more you are going to be lumped in together. Better get busy, the election is only a few months away.

    [sorry for the threadjack Doc. I'm passionate about education and people like JRC who want to destroy the American education system, and are succeeding, bug the heck out of me.]

  162. avatar
    Kate April 5, 2014 at 7:44 am #

    The Truth: Until I prove it, you may keep slinging your comments over. Trust me, I am working on it and get closer every day. I suppose you will require a bed sheet and DNA to as evidence? Remember Subud, you will be hearing a lot about it in the coming weeks.

    Subud? It was NEVER mentioned until after Loretta Fuddy died. Are you saying that for several years, all birthers were clueless regarding this organization that you now find to be ever so important? More shoddy research and jumping through hoops to try to make the impossible fit. Those goalposts sure move quite easily, don’t they?

  163. avatar
    Kate April 5, 2014 at 7:56 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in): Sounds a bit like what birthers claim Obama’s mother did to have her child in Kenya.

    The quote that I found the most puzzling was the one from the flight attendants who said the state of her pregnancy was not apparent from her appearance. WTF? After 3 children, there is NO WAY I would get on a flight that was going to be at least a few hours (it wasn’t a non-stop, they had a layover in SEATAC) at a time when my water had broken and no decent physician would advise a patient to do so. For the men on here, I’m sure you remember many frequent trips to the bathroom during the last months of pregnancy as the baby pushes on your bladder. Add early labor to that and it’s impossible for the flight attendants not to have noticed how large she was, as seen in one pic taken a few days prior to her “giving birth”, and her frequent trips to the lavatory on the plane. It’s also physically impossible for a woman to go from what looks like 5 – 6 mos. pregnant to looking as if she’s ready to pop. Our bodies can’t handle that and don’t stretch in that manner. I don’t know why Palin lied, whose child it is, etc., but I’d say there is no way she gave birth according to the story told.

  164. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 5, 2014 at 8:11 am #

    But the reason needn’t be that they expect to lose the case.

    The Truth: You forgot to mention that book cost his publishers insurance company $325,000. Insurance companies don’t pay that kind of money for no reason.

  165. avatar
    Suranis April 5, 2014 at 8:57 am #

    And 60 year old Indian mystics could impregnate 16 year old American girls by artificial insemination in the 1960s

    Lani: LOL, I didn’t think about that, but yes!The amazing super birth moms!They can give birth across thousands of miles!

  166. avatar
    Suranis April 5, 2014 at 9:08 am #

    From what I remember, the story came from her father saying that she went into labour in texas. A few days later at her first press conference, instead of simply brushing it off saying her dad had made a boo boo *giggle* and that she actually went into labour after she got back home, she pretty confirmed it and stammered through it. Which basically had everyone with a brain going “what the fuck??”

    People would have been more than willing to accept her father making a mistake on when exactly she went into labour, but someone going into labour, driving to an airport, 5 hour flight, then driving past 2 maternity hospitals to a general hospital all while in labour had everyone going BULL! SHIT!

    I really don’t care whose baby it was, it didn’t change my opinion of her one way or another. Its certainly possible the baby is hers, the woman was well known for keeping secrets and this could just have been yet another manifestation of it. But people saying the entire story is a load of bull have at least logic on their side.

    And I’m ordering the book.

    Kate: I don’t know why Palin lied, whose child it is, etc., but I’d say there is no way she gave birth according to the story told.

  167. avatar
    Arthur April 5, 2014 at 9:38 am #

    Keith: I’m passionate about education and people like JRC who want to destroy the American education system, and are succeeding, bug the heck out of me.]

    As someone who has been teaching for 25 years, in both private and public schools, at the secondary and university level, teaching in multidisciplinary programs and focused majors, I share your concern for the political threats facing our education system and applaud your response.

  168. avatar
    Bob April 5, 2014 at 12:44 pm #

    At the time, I read a lot about the “pregnancy” and “birth” and came to the conclusion that Sarah and Todd decided to claim Bristol’s baby as theirs. That happens all the time — the same thing happened to several families I’ve known. It’s no big deal and shouldn’t exclude someone from being president. It doesn’t even bother me if they want to lie about it because it’s their personal lives and has no bearing on the job. (Of course, if Palin were a Democrat the Wingnuts would have never, ever, ever, ever dropped the subject and Commander Zullo would be running around Texas and Alaska looking for evidence.)

    The way she handled the announcement, the “pregnancy,” and “birth” left room for a lot of speculation and people simply pounced on it.

  169. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 5, 2014 at 2:05 pm #

    Bob: At the time, I read a lot about the “pregnancy” and “birth” and came to the conclusion that Sarah and Todd decided to claim Bristol’s baby as theirs.

    Here’s a 2011 piece from Salon that pretty well debunks the story. Unless, of course, one is willing to believe that half the people in Alaska were in on the conspiracy.

    http://www.salon.com/2011/04/22/sarah_palin_trig_conspiracy_theory/

  170. avatar
    Rickey April 5, 2014 at 2:44 pm #

    Kate: Subud? It was NEVER mentioned until after Loretta Fuddy died.Are you saying that for several years, all birthers were clueless regarding this organization that you now find to be ever so important?More shoddy research and jumping through hoops to try to make the impossible fit.Those goalposts sure move quite easily, don’t they?

    The major problem with public education isn’t that students have limited or no choices about what school to attend. The problem is the disparity in funding from one school district to another, with the resulting inequality in facilities, course offerings, quality of teachers, etc. In Westchester County, New York, where I grew up, the school district which spends the most per student is spending twice as much as the school district which spends the least per student. The average total SAT score in the high-spending district is 1917; the average total SAT school is the low-spending district is 1185.

  171. avatar
    Rickey April 5, 2014 at 3:07 pm #

    The Truth: I am well aware of attorney costs, I own a business. I also have dealt with an insurance company for a major fire loss at my business, I know they don’t like to pay unless forced to. I nearly lost my business because of the insurance company dragging their feet and fighting every legitimate dime cost incurred, thus more attorney fees for me also.

    You apparently have no idea what it costs to defend a high-profile fraud case. The trial which ended in a hung jury lasted for six weeks. The trial alone probably cost the insurance company at least $150,000, and the total bill including pre-trial costs was probably at least $250,000. The prospect of having to start over, combined with the possibility of an adverse jury verdict, would have made $325,000 look like a bargain.

    When you consider that MacDonald’s attorneys took half of the settlement, MacDonald was left with a relative pittance.

  172. avatar
    Rickey April 5, 2014 at 3:15 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Here’s a 2011 piece from Salon that pretty well debunks the story. Unless, of course, one is willing to believe that half the people in Alaska were in on the conspiracy.

    http://www.salon.com/2011/04/22/sarah_palin_trig_conspiracy_theory/

    That is very convincing. I remember hearing the rumors about Bristol being the mother, but that turned out to be impossible when Bristol gave birth eight months after Trig was born.

  173. avatar
    Arthur April 5, 2014 at 3:32 pm #

    The Truth: Trust me, I am working on it and get closer every day.

    You are a remarkably silly person and entirely untrustworthy; however, if rolling around on the rotted carcass of birtherism keeps a shine on your golden years, press on.

  174. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 5, 2014 at 3:53 pm #

    I never got involved in Trig birtherism–the story just seemed too crazy to be true, and not worth looking into.
    .

    Rickey: That is very convincing. I remember hearing the rumors about Bristol being the mother, but that turned out to be impossible when Bristol gave birth eight months after Trig was born.

  175. avatar
    BillTheCat April 5, 2014 at 3:54 pm #

    The Truth: Are you really going to make me give you a pile of you tube links showing this knock out game happen in real time video? Save me some time and look yourself. And for the record, I did not start the knock out thread comments, I was defending a response to my post.
    I am glad you walk unarmed, I would chose a better place to do it though.

    It’s a BS story and you are either willfully ignorant or a liar. Good luck convincing anyone outside of WND and Breitbart of your fake outrage.

  176. avatar
    BillTheCat April 5, 2014 at 3:57 pm #

    The Truth: Ah I see. So, if Zullo moved next door to Dr Conspiracy that would be ok? It would be legal right? As long as there is no police report of harassment who cares?

    Yup. As your side constantly screams, “It’s a FREE COUNTRY”.

  177. avatar
    Thinker April 5, 2014 at 4:04 pm #

    Kate: The quote that I found the most puzzling was the one from the flight attendants who said the state of her pregnancy was not apparent from her appearance.
    [snip]
    Add early labor to that and it’s impossible for the flight attendants not to have noticed how large she was, as seen in one pic taken a few days prior to her “giving birth”, and her frequent trips to the lavatory on the plane.

    The quote is not actually from the flight attendant. It’s from a PR person from the airline. Here’s what she said, “The stage of her pregnancy was not apparent by observation. She did not show any signs of distress.” (http://www.adn.com/2008/04/22/382864/palins-child-diagnosed-with-down.html#ixzz1PAoAeFEI)

    It says she was not obviously in labor. It does not say she was not obviously very pregnant.

    Kate: WTF?After 3 children, there is NO WAY I would get on a flight that was going to be at least a few hours (it wasn’t a non-stop, they had a layover in SEATAC) at a time when my water had broken and no decent physician would advise a patient to do so.

    Perhaps Palin’s physician was not decent, but she told Sarah that it was OK for her to fly back to Alaska. In fact, the doctor says Palin was not in active labor when she left Texas. The doctor eventually induced labor after Palin got to the hospital.

    Kate: It’s also physically impossible for a woman to go from what looks like 5 – 6 mos. pregnant to looking as if she’s ready to pop.Our bodies can’t handle that and don’t stretch in that manner.

    This is simply not true. I have a work colleague who went from barely showing to extremely, obviously pregnant over the course of a single week around her 7th or 8th month. We were all quite amazed by her sudden transformation. It is probably unusual, but it is not impossible.

    Kate: I don’t know why Palin lied, whose child it is, etc., but I’d say there is no way she gave birth according to the story told.

    Sigh.

  178. avatar
    Rickey April 5, 2014 at 4:12 pm #

    Arthur: You are a remarkably silly person and entirely untrustworthy; however, if rolling around on the rotted carcass of birtherism keeps a shine on your golden years, press on.

    Yes, indeed. Remember, “The Truth” first claimed that Stanley Ann Dunham hooked up with Subuh when she ran away to San Francisco for a few days. The problem there is that we know from “A Singular Woman” that the trip to San Francisco took place during her senior year in high school, and the last time that Subuh was in San Francisco was July 14, 1959. Subuh was in Oslo, Norway on August 1, 1959 and he spent the rest of the year in Europe. He then traveled from Greece to Calcutta in the spring of 1960.

    His fallback story is that they met in Chicago in the summer of 1959. However, Subuh was in Chicago for perhaps 8-10 days in June, and “The Truth” has no idea how much of that summer Stanley Ann spent in Chicago. All we know for certain is that she got a summer job as an au pair and that she lived with her aunt, Arlene Payne, who was doing graduate work at the University of Chicago. But even if we accept the remote possibility that Stanley Ann met Subuh, if she became pregnant by him it would have occurred no later than June 29, 1959 (Subuh was in Denver on June 30). To believe that, you have to believe that Stanley Ann was able to go through her entire senior year and give birth in late March or early April of 1960 without anyone noticing that she was pregnant.

    Also, there is no evidence that Stanley Ann was a member of Subud. All we know is that she knew some Subud members when she lived in Indonesia.

    But by all means, the ironically named “The Truth” should press on.

  179. avatar
    Thinker April 5, 2014 at 4:34 pm #

    One thing about Trig Trutherism that I don’t understand, though. Why doesn’t Sarah just get a DNA test done to prove that she is Trig’s mother. If she would do that, and make a certified copy of it available to everyone who is skeptical of her story (Since pdfs are so easy to forge, just posting it on the internet would be insufficient, as would relying on media reports since media people can be bribed and threatened.), she could shut this whole thing down. Why doesn’t she do this? What is she hiding?

    (Yeah, this is snark. I think Palin herself is too stupid to know that conspiracy theorists will never be satisfied with any amount of evidence, but she probably has people around her who realize that. And anyway, I believe Trig Trutherism is a net positive for Sarah because it lets her whine about how horribly victimized she is by evil liberals.)

  180. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 4:49 pm #

    BillTheCat: It’s a BS story and you are either willfully ignorant or a liar. Good luck convincing anyone outside of WND and Breitbart of your fake outrage.

    A BS story? Laughable.

    Al Sharpton statement;
    “When a 78-year-old Jewish woman was walking down the street in Brooklyn earlier this month, the last thing she expected was to be punched in the face. Tragically, that’s exactly what happened. The elderly woman was apparently the victim of what authorities are calling a “knockout game” — where, according to police, an attacker or attackers aim to knock out a person with a single sucker punch. It is an alarming trend that is spurring outrageous incidents across the country. It is deplorable, reprehensible and inexcusable. It is insane thuggery, and it is unequivocally wrong. These kids are targeting innocent people, and in many cases specifically targeting Jewish folks. We would not be silent if it were the other way around, and we will not be silent now. This behavior is racist, period. And we will not tolerate it.”

    http://www.pocketfullofliberty.com/on-the-knock-out-game-myth/

    http://nypost.com/2013/11/23/al-sharpton-condemns-knockout-attacks/

    Others commenting;

    http://www.ironicsurrealism.com/2011/08/11/violent-flash-mob-of-students-from-oprah-funded-obama-praised-school-assault-innocent-bystander/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2505319/Brooklyn-teen-gang-playing-knock-Jew-attack-man-shocking-video.html

    A democrat;

    http://www.speroforum.com/a/ONBNTFJOTW4/74612-Democrat-says-knockout-game-assaults-stem-from-genuine-concern-for-Jewish-influence#.U0Bp8GdOXcc

    Need I go on, this is boring. Its a lie, a myth, a contrived story?

  181. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 4:52 pm #

    BillTheCat: Yup. As your side constantly screams, “It’s a FREE COUNTRY”.

    My side? What are you talking about? Do you have a clue?

  182. avatar
    Suranis April 5, 2014 at 4:54 pm #

    Nope, its irrelevant, off topic, and a desperate and obvious distraction.

    The Truth: Need I go on, this is boring. Its a lie, a myth, a contrived story?

  183. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 4:56 pm #

    Rickey: You apparently have no idea what it costs to defend a high-profile fraud case. The trial which ended in a hung jury lasted for six weeks. The trial alone probably cost the insurance company at least $150,000, and the total bill including pre-trial costs was probably at least $250,000. The prospect of having to start over, combined with the possibility of an adverse jury verdict, would have made $325,000 look like a bargain.

    When you consider that MacDonald’s attorneys took half of the settlement, MacDonald was left with a relative pittance.

    Hmmm, and the judge called him a “con man”. Sorry, not buying he was a stand up guy story.

  184. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 4:57 pm #

    Suranis:
    Nope, its irrelevant, off topic, and a desperate and obvious distraction.

    I didn’t bring up the knock out game, someone else did. I am defending my position. I agree its off topic like many of the other posts on here you don’t bother commenting about.

  185. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 5:17 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    But the reason needn’t be that they expect to lose the case.

    My point was, you initially defended this writer for his actions. I checked up on him and found he had issues with his writings. If he had no issues historically it would be a little easier to swallow that he didn’t move next door to Palin on purpose. I still don’t buy it.

    I have stated my opinions clearly on violent threats and actions, they have no place in a civil society. I agree 100% that anyone whether a birther or pro-Palin supporter has no moral convictions what so ever if they act in that type of manner.

    If Palin lied I believe it was to protect her family, I doubt she wanted a bunch of gun toting nut cases to go and shoot the guy and I certainly hope that is not your position. In my opinion, this guy provoked her by moving next door, whether we agree on that or not is irrelevant. I think we can both agree that the statements made as a result of this situation were reprehensible, disgusting and uncivil.

  186. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 5, 2014 at 5:17 pm #

    What was alleged was that McGinniss led Jeffry MacDonald to believe that he was sympathetic to his innocence during interviews, but later wrote that he was guilty.

    It is an open question (hung jury) whether he did this, but even assuming it’s true, “con man” in any literal sense doesn’t fit that allegation. Police, for example, do such things all the time during interrogations, and we don’t call them “con men.”

    The judge was offended by what he believed McGinniss did, but that is not a finding of fact; it was a value judgment.

    The Truth: Hmmm, and the judge called him a “con man”. Sorry, not buying he was a stand up guy story.

  187. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 5:23 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    What was alleged was that McGinniss led Mcdonald to believe that he was sympathetic to her innocence during interviews, but later wrote that she was guilty.

    It is an open question (hung jury) whether he did this, but even assuming it’s true, “con man” in any literal sense doesn’t fit that allegation. Police, for example, do such things all the time during interrogations, and we don’t call them “con men.”

    The judge was offended by what he believed McGinniss did, but that is not a finding of fact; it was a value judgment.

    The analogy with police does not work for me. Police will lie to gain information, if I recall that has been found legal by the supreme court, maybe someone can correct me if that is not true. When writing a book I would suspect the author must be careful about allegations not substantiated or they can be sued for slander etc. and it appears that is exactly what happened. If he was an above board writer there would not have been a law suit to begin with?

  188. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 5:29 pm #

    Rickey: You apparently have no idea what it costs to defend a high-profile fraud case. The trial which ended in a hung jury lasted for six weeks. The trial alone probably cost the insurance company at least $150,000, and the total bill including pre-trial costs was probably at least $250,000. The prospect of having to start over, combined with the possibility of an adverse jury verdict, would have made $325,000 look like a bargain.

    When you consider that MacDonald’s attorneys took half of the settlement, MacDonald was left with a relative pittance.

    You speak like you are an expert on legal fees, perhaps you are an attorney? If you are, lower your prices they are to high judging by your cost calculations.

  189. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 5, 2014 at 5:48 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I never got involved in Trig birtherism–the story just seemed too crazy to be true, and not worth looking into.
    .

    That makes two of us.

  190. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 5, 2014 at 5:51 pm #

    Rickey: But by all means, the ironically named “The Truth” should press on.

    Oh, he will.

  191. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 5:59 pm #

    CarlOrcas: That makes two of us.

    That makes three of us. I could care less, she will never be POTUS or VP and probably not even a senator.

  192. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 5:59 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Oh, he will.

    Indeed I shall.

  193. avatar
    Suranis April 5, 2014 at 6:40 pm #

    You see, this is the technique where the troll lies about bringing something into the conversation, thereby making the other person look up the offending post becasue everyone knows he is speaking utter bull, and therefore perpetuates the distraction from the thing he does not want people talking about.

    Namely the fact that rightwingers threatened Joe McGuinness, who did nothing other than rent a house in a position where he could not actually see into the Palins house. McGuiness did not threaten anyone and had a perfectly valid reason for renting a house in Wasilla. Not only that but the Wasilla Police offered McGuinness a fire-arm for his protection so they did not see that the man did anything wrong, and Sarah was gone from the house in anycase for 3/4 of the time McGuinness was there.

    Therefore, McGuinness was not a stalker or threatening to the Palins in any way, and indeed while “Next Door” the house was actually nowhere near the Palin’s house, being downhill and the other side of a lake.

    The Truth: I didn’t bring up the knock out game, someone else did. I am defending my position. I agree its off topic like many of the other posts on here you don’t bother commenting about.

    Oh yeah, the place where The Truth Brought up the Knock down game;

    Ok. Drive in Detroit after dark. Let me know what happens. Don’t get out of the car though, you may get knocked out just for fun.

    And he did this as a distraction from someone disproving his assertion that Minorities in particular perform violent acts. Which he brought up as a distraction from the rightwingers issuing violent threats to Joe McGuinness…

    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
    “To talk of many things:
    Of shoes–and ships–and sealing-wax–
    Of cabbages–and kings–
    And why the sea is boiling hot–
    And whether pigs have wings.”

  194. avatar
    Rickey April 5, 2014 at 7:58 pm #

    The Truth: You speak like you are an expert on legal fees, perhaps you are an attorney? If you are, lower your prices they are to high judging by your cost calculations.

    I am not an attorney, but I was a litigation supervisor for Commercial Union Insurance Company and USAA for many years, and insurance defense attorneys make up most of my current client list. A six-week high-profile fraud trial would generate 330-360 billable hours per attorney, and would probably require two attorneys; add to that the immediate pre-trial time for picking a jury, which could have taken several days; add to that the cost of hiring expert witnesses, and the cost of producing fact witnesses, and you can see how easily it adds up.

    The attorneys for MacDonald could not have believed that they had a very strong case, or they would never have settled for $325,000. They almost certainly ended up making less money than the defense attorneys, but of course they would have gotten nothing if they had gone to trial a second time and lost.

  195. avatar
    BillTheCat April 5, 2014 at 8:40 pm #

    @Truth
    “laughable” is your nickname here, liar. I bet you believe “wilding” was real during the Central Park rape trial days, and we all know how “real” that turned out to be. Thanks for bringing up isolated incidents that do not equal a trend, a “thing”, regardless of a small amount of media wanting to pretend it is – got it? Fits your narrative though, wild black teens, usurper in the White House, THE USUAL. More scary BS to rile up the Fox watching old folks and dog-whistle receivers. And btw – CNN is barely a step up from Fox, lol.

    I’ll leave matching wits with Mommy’s Special Snowflake to the pros here though, regarding the actual topic of the thread. Just enjoy the 3 more years of twice-elected President Obama, and more than likely, 8 of President Hillary. :)

  196. avatar
    Majority Will April 5, 2014 at 8:41 pm #

    Suranis:
    You see, this is the technique where the troll lies about bringing something into the conversation, thereby making the other person look up the offending post becasue everyone knows he is speaking utter bull, and therefore perpetuates the distraction from the thing he does not want people talking about.

    Namely the fact that rightwingers threatened Joe McGuinness, who did nothing other than rent a house in a position where he could not actually see into the Palins house. McGuiness did not threaten anyone and had a perfectly valid reason for renting a house in Wasilla. Not only that but the Wasilla Police offered McGuinness a fire-arm for his protection so they did not see that the man did anything wrong, and Sarah was gone from the house in anycase for 3/4 of the time McGuinness was there.

    Therefore, McGuinness was not a stalker or threatening to the Palins in any way, and indeed while “Next Door” the house was actually nowhere near the Palin’s house, being downhill and the other side of a lake.

    Oh yeah, the place where The Truth Brought up the Knock down game;

    And he did this as a distraction from someone disproving his assertion that Minorities in particular perform violent acts. Which he brought up as a distraction from the rightwingers issuing violent threats to Joe McGuinness…

    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
    “To talk of many things:
    Of shoes–and ships–and sealing-wax–
    Of cabbages–and kings–
    And why the sea is boiling hot–
    And whether pigs have wings.”

    Intellectually lazy (e.g., not bothering to check even the easiest of credible sources for facts before commenting, faking expertise with uninformed opinion or citing ridiculous, unqualified sources) and lying bigots are sometimes thin-skinned as well when you call him or her out on blatant lies, fear mongering bigotry and politically motivated smears but just as irritating are the habits of confusing anecdote with widespread evidence and justifying bad behavior because someone else did something similar (i.e., two wrongs make a right).

  197. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 8:51 pm #

    Suranis:
    You see, this is the technique where the troll lies about bringing something into the conversation, thereby making the other person look up the offending post becasue everyone knows he is speaking utter bull, and therefore perpetuates the distraction from the thing he does not want people talking about.

    Namely the fact that rightwingers threatened Joe McGuinness, who did nothing other than rent a house in a position where he could not actually see into the Palins house. McGuiness did not threaten anyone and had a perfectly valid reason for renting a house in Wasilla. Not only that but the Wasilla Police offered McGuinness a fire-arm for his protection so they did not see that the man did anything wrong, and Sarah was gone from the house in anycase for 3/4 of the time McGuinness was there.

    Therefore, McGuinness was not a stalker or threatening to the Palins in any way, and indeed while “Next Door” the house was actually nowhere near the Palin’s house, being downhill and the other side of a lake.

    Oh yeah, the place where The Truth Brought up the Knock down game;

    And he did this as a distraction from someone disproving his assertion that Minorities in particular perform violent acts. Which he brought up as a distraction from the rightwingers issuing violent threats to Joe McGuinness…

    “The time has come,” the Walrus said,
    “To talk of many things:
    Of shoes–and ships–and sealing-wax–
    Of cabbages–and kings–
    And why the sea is boiling hot–
    And whether pigs have wings.”

    You bore me with your antics. Why don’t you take the time to read further back in the threads to see I did not mention the knock out game first. Yawn!

  198. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 8:55 pm #

    BillTheCat:
    @Truth
    “laughable” is your nickname here, liar. I bet you believe “wilding” was real during the Central Park rape trial days, and we all know how “real” that turned out to be. Thanks for bringing up isolated incidents that do not equal a trend, a “thing”, regardless of a small amount of media wanting to pretend it is – got it? Fits your narrative though, wild black teens, usurper in the White House, THE USUAL. More scary BS to rile up the Fox watching old folks and dog-whistle receivers. And btw – CNN is barely a step up from Fox, lol.

    I’ll leave matching wits with Mommy’s Special Snowflake to the pros here though, regarding the actual topic of the thread. Just enjoy the 3 more years of twice-elected President Obama, and more than likely, 8 of President Hillary.

    Once again, pro political rhetoric that has no bearing on the topic. But if I must, Hillary will never win. Obama came from nowhere, maybe we will get lucky and have someone run who is actually a good leader.

  199. avatar
    The Truth April 5, 2014 at 8:59 pm #

    Majority Will: Intellectually lazy (e.g., not bothering to check even the easiest of credible sources for facts before commenting, faking expertise with uninformed opinion or citing ridiculous, unqualified sources) and lying bigots are sometimes thin-skinned as well when you call him or her out on blatant lies, fear mongering bigotry and politically motivated smears but just as irritating are the habits of confusing anecdote with widespread evidence and justifying bad behavior because someone else did something similar (i.e., two wrongs make a right).

    Cant you be more original, you have said most of that before. I am a liar because I linked the facts about the author nobody here bothered to do? Or is it because of the knock out game fantasy that Al Sharpton and I live with? Fear mongering bigot? Hahaha, good one but heavily used.

  200. avatar
    Suranis April 5, 2014 at 10:00 pm #

    So, McGuinness renting a house down a hill and across a lake from the Palins resulted in him and his family getting death threats. Care to comment?

    The Truth: You bore me with your antics. Why don’t you take the time to read further back in the threads to see I did not mention the knock out game first. Yawn!

  201. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 5, 2014 at 10:46 pm #

    The house was next door, not across the lake. The two lots were extremely long and narrow, almost like two school rulers next to each other.

    Suranis: So, [McGinniss] renting a house down a hill and across a lake from the Palins resulted in him and his family getting death threats

  202. avatar
    Suranis April 5, 2014 at 10:51 pm #

    I read at the time that it was across a lake, and that Palin tried to prevent him from boating on it to that he couldn’t “spy” on her. I’ll have to actually look at a map now to prove it to myself. Darn-it.

  203. avatar
    JRC April 5, 2014 at 10:56 pm #

    Keith:

    Rant…

    I read your rant….and you didn’t address me but your own stereotype of whatever.

    I’m not an ideologue. Do you follow everything your party tells you? I said I have no problem with taxation for education. Yes the party platform might say otherwise, but I’m not beholden to a party platform. I mean you blame Libertarians, but do they control all the blue States as well as the Red States. The answer is no, and the U.S. educational system is lagging far behind other countries. So address what I said and not some imaginary enemy trying to destroy something that they aren’t. Just because you disagree with my idea to improve education for all, doesn’t mean I’m out to destroy it. Hey I’m a Libertarian, and I do think that the scientific community has overwhelming evidence that Global Warming is being caused mainly by man, and we as a people need to take action. We as people including the U.S. Government. You seem to want to react emotionally instead of using reason, logic, and common sense.

  204. avatar
    Suranis April 5, 2014 at 11:01 pm #

    I found this interesting piece that mentions the 350K case that No Truth was trying to push as proving how dishonest the guy who moved to a house near The Palins and got death threats was, and therefore he really deserved to have his family threatened and Minorities do lots of violet crime you know.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577978/Fatal-Vision-author-Joe-McGinniss-dies-age-71.html

    In the early hours of Feb. 17, 1970, MacDonald’s pregnant wife and two small children were stabbed and beaten to death at the family’s home in Fort Bragg, N.C. The date, location and identities of the victims are virtually the only facts of the case not in dispute.

    MacDonald, who sustained a punctured lung and minor injuries, had insisted that the house was overrun by a gang of drug-crazed hippies that chanted slogans such as ‘Acid is groovy’ and spelled ‘PIG’ in blood on a bedroom wall, a murderous rampage seemingly inspired by the then-recent Charles Manson killings.

    But investigators suspected otherwise, believing that MacDonald killed his family and arranged the apartment to make it appear others had committed the crime. MacDonald was initially cleared of charges, then indicted, then finally brought to trial in 1979. He was found guilty and sentenced to three consecutive life terms.

    ‘Fatal Vision,’ published in 1983, became one of the most widely read and contested true crime books in history. McGinniss wrote not just of the case but of his own conclusions. He had at first found MacDonald charming and sincere but came to believe he was a sociopath who’d committed the killings while in a frenzied state brought on by diet pills.

    McGinniss’ findings weren’t welcomed by MacDonald or by some fellow journalists. MacDonald sued in 1987, alleging McGinniss had tricked him by pretending to believe in his innocence, and he received an out-of-court settlement of $325,000. New Yorker writer Janet Malcolm cited McGinniss as a prime case of the reporter as a ‘kind of confidence man, preying on people’s vanity, ignorance, or loneliness, gaining their trust and betraying them without remorse.’

    McGinniss wrote in his defense: ‘The attempt to manipulate through ‘cons and lies’ was — it seems clear to me now in retrospect — something Jeffrey MacDonald engaged in with me. Appearance of the book was forceful proof he had not succeeded.’

    McGinniss hoped to have the last word with the e-book ‘Final Vision.’

    ‘Jeffrey MacDonald was convicted of the murders of his wife and two young daughters in 1979,’ McGinniss said in 2012. ‘In all the years since, every court that has considered the case — including the United States Supreme Court — has upheld that verdict in every respect. MacDonald is guilty not simply beyond a reasonable doubt, but beyond any doubt. No amount of speculation, conjecture and innuendo can change that.’

  205. avatar
    Suranis April 5, 2014 at 11:10 pm #

    Ok I found a pic of Palins house

    http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/sarah-palins-house/view/?service=0

    There’s a lot of woodland around it and the Palins own the lot right next to them (see the links to the side), which has the house that appears to be right beside them. So that means that McGuinness could only have been spying on them through a forest.

    It also explains where I got the lake as the houses both are against a lake, so Palin could have tried to prevent McGuiness from doing some boating.

    Sorry for the error.

  206. avatar
    Keith April 5, 2014 at 11:57 pm #

    JRC: Do you follow everything your party tells you? I said I have no problem with taxation for education. Yes the party platform might say otherwise, but I’m not beholden to a party platform.

    Perhaps not. But you did say that the reason that the Arizona education system was being destroyed was because Republicans were implementing the Libertarian Platform. Are you then saying that the Libertarian Party wouldn’t implement its own platform? Are you running for office to ensure that it doesn’t? Are you active in the Party leadership with enough influence to change that policy?

    You really should stop digging in that hole. You are the one that brought up your libertarianism with respect to education; and now you are trying to back off from fundamental libertarian policy? Yes, disingenuous is the word; and intellectual cowardice comes to mind as well.

    Your words:

    As a Libertarian I would like to address this part of your comment.I’m not looking to destroy the educational system.I’m not even against public schools.

    The Libertarian Party Platform:

    Education
    The Issue: Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Compulsory education laws… spawn prison-like schools with many of the problems associated with prisons…

    The Principle: Education, like any other service, is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality and efficiency with more diversity of choice.

    Solutions: We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended. We call for the repeal of the guarantees of tax-funded, government-provided education, which are found in most state constitutions. We condemn compulsory education laws…and we call for an immediate repeal of such laws. Until government involvement in education is ended, we support elimination, within the governmental school system, of forced busing and corporal punishment. We further support immediate reduction of tax support for schools, and removal of the burden of school taxes from those not responsible for the education of children.

    Transitional Action: As an interim measure to encourage the growth of private schools and variety in education, including home schooling, we support tax credits for tuition and other expenditures related to an individual’s education. We likewise favor tax credits for child care and oppose nationalization of the child-care industry. We oppose denial of tax-exempt status to schools because of those schools’ private policies on hiring, admissions and student deportment. We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.

    This is not only unAmerican, as it has been recognized as the single most important function of Government from the earliest time, it is suicidal for society.

    Here are some more of your words in reference to my anecdote about my sister:

    I suppose that was before the Department of Education was established, nothing against the idea, but still.

    I assure you, my sister was not alive, let alone in school before 1867. Since the DoE was founded in 1867, I wonder what else might have been going on at that time that it was suddenly seen as an important function? Oh. Yeah. That’s right… Reconstruction.

    Before the civil war, it was against the law to educate a black man; suddenly we had millions of uneducated former slaves. The American Public education system was born out of that experience, and that is the genesis of the ‘libertarian’ hatred of the Department of Education to this day. Those public guarantees in the State Constitutions were put there at that time to ensure that former slaves could not be continued to be kept in ignorance.

    The importance of public funding for education was recognized in the United States as early as the Land Ordinance of 1785 and the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 which included a one square mile out of each 36 square mile section specifically for public education. These ordinances were established with the help of none other than Thomas Jefferson who said

    1786 August 13. (to George Wythe)

    I think by far the most important bill in our whole code is that for the diffusion of knowledge among the people. No other sure foundation can be devised, for the preservation of freedom and happiness…Preach, my dear Sir, a crusade against ignorance; establish & improve the law for educating the common people. Let our countrymen know that the people alone can protect us against these evils [tyranny, oppression, etc.] and that the tax which will be paid for this purpose is not more than the thousandth part of what will be paid to kings, priests and nobles who will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance.

  207. avatar
    Keith April 6, 2014 at 12:15 am #

    Suranis: There’s a lot of woodland around it and the Palins own the lot right next to them (see the links to the side), which has the house that appears to be right beside them. So that means that McGuinness could only have been spying on them through a forest.

    I think you have that part wrong. The Taylor house and the Palin house appear to be adjacent to each other, separated by a fence.

    See the line drawing map on page 10 of the book (linked by Doc in the article post above) and compare it to the aerial photo you link.

    The Palins appear to have the property with the two large brown roofed buildings, while the Taylor property is the one with the smaller gray roofed building.

    They are quite close to each other, but there doesn’t seem to match Palin’s description of the situation much at all.

  208. avatar
    The Truth April 6, 2014 at 12:19 am #

    Suranis:
    Ok I found a pic of Palins house

    http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/sarah-palins-house/view/?service=0

    There’s a lot of woodland around it and the Palins own the lot right next to them (see the links to the side), which has the house that appears to be right beside them. So that means that McGuinness could only have been spying on them through a forest.

    It also explains where I got the lake as the houses both are against a lake, so Palin could have tried to prevent McGuiness from doing some boating.

    Sorry for the error.

    You demean me, throw all kinds of trash my way and you are the one who is not accurate. If you bothered to read the threads you would see that Palin took a picture of McGuiness claiming he was spying on their house, he was looking the other way. Did she take the picture through a forest? Instead of trying to take cheap shots at me you should get the facts straight first. If you bothered to read my comments you would see I have chastised the violent comments and actions against McGuiness. I hope you don’t live your life with hate for anyone who disagrees with your views, you wont be happy for a long time.,

  209. avatar
    The Truth April 6, 2014 at 12:30 am #

    Keith: Perhaps not. But you did say that the reason that the Arizona education system was being destroyed was because Republicans were implementing the Libertarian Platform. Are you then saying that the Libertarian Party wouldn’t implement its own platform? Are you running for office to ensure that it doesn’t? Are you active in the Party leadership with enough influence to change that policy?

    You really should stop digging in that hole. You are the one that brought up your libertarianism with respect to education; and now you are trying to back off from fundamental libertarian policy? Yes, disingenuous is the word; and intellectual cowardice comes to mind as well.

    Your words:

    The Libertarian Party Platform:

    This is not only unAmerican, as it has been recognized as the single most important function of Government from the earliest time, it is suicidal for society.

    Here are some more of your words in reference to my anecdote about my sister:

    I assure you, my sister was not alive, let alone in school before 1867. Since the DoE was founded in 1867, I wonder what else might have been going on at that time that it was suddenly seen as an important function? Oh. Yeah. That’s right… Reconstruction.

    Before the civil war, it was against the law to educate a black man; suddenly we had millions of uneducated former slaves. The American Public education system was born out of that experience, and that is the genesis of the ‘libertarian’ hatred of the Department of Education to this day. Those public guarantees in the State Constitutions were put there at that time to ensure that former slaves could not be continued to be kept in ignorance.

    The importance of public funding for education was recognized in the United States as early as the Land Ordinance of 1785 and the Northwest Ordinance of 1787 which included a one square mile out of each 36 square mile section specifically for public education. These ordinances were established with the help of none other than Thomas Jefferson who said

    Instead of arguing over who has ruined the educational system in the US, why don’t we try to fix the broken system? If we don’t educate future generations properly we will end up a third world country…..with a lot of prisons and law enforcement. For the record, I have stated multiple times I am an independent so I will not pick sides on who is at fault because we all are. And I 100% agree that instead of having wars and spending trillions to kill people who have not invaded our country, lets spend it on our future, the children.

  210. avatar
    The Truth April 6, 2014 at 12:42 am #

    Suranis: New Yorker writer Janet Malcolm cited McGinniss as a prime case of the reporter as a ‘kind of confidence man, preying on people’s vanity, ignorance, or loneliness, gaining their trust and betraying them without remorse.’

    “New Yorker writer Janet Malcolm cited McGinniss as a prime case of the reporter as a ‘kind of confidence man, preying on people’s vanity, ignorance, or loneliness, gaining their trust and betraying them without remorse.’”

    I am sure Palin wanted this guy to write her biography? Doubt it, especially when he moves next door. I still believe he moved next door on purpose. Whats your point? You hate Palin? Or, is it just that you don’t like me? I don’t care either way honestly.

  211. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 6, 2014 at 12:46 am #

    Suranis:
    Ok I found a pic of Palins house

    http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/sarah-palins-house/view/?service=0

    There’s a lot of woodland around it and the Palins own the lot right next to them (see the links to the side), which has the house that appears to be right beside them. So that means that McGuinness could only have been spying on them through a forest.

    It also explains where I got the lake as the houses both are against a lake, so Palin could have tried to prevent McGuiness from doing some boating.

    Sorry for the error.

    Here’s a better picture of the houses taken from the lake:

    http://greghensel.photoshelter.com/image/I0000K65dsmowmd4

    Palin’s original house is the big one of the right. The house McGinniss rented is the one on the left. There is another building on Palin’s property to the right of the house that was built to house a studio for her appearances on Fox.

  212. avatar
    Thinker April 6, 2014 at 1:08 am #

    I think McGinniss renting the house next door to the Palin’s house was a bit creepy, but I don’t think Sarah or anyone in her family was ever in any danger from it. Sarah’s problem is that she wants to be famous when it’s convenient for her, but not when it isn’t. That’s not the way it works. Sarah Palin has made many deliberate, informed (to the extent that a moron like her can be informed) decisions to put herself and her family in the spotlight. One of the consequences of that is that she only has as much privacy as she’s willing to pay for. If she had remained a public official, she would probably have government-provided security, but holding down a real job was too big of a burden for her. She wanted to be out attention-whoring. That’s her right, but it has consequences.

    She’s free to walk away from the spotlight at any time. So are her older kids. The younger ones will remain victims of their mother’s narcissism until they become adults.

  213. avatar
    Keith April 6, 2014 at 2:21 am #

    The Truth: Instead of arguing over who has ruined the educational system in the US, why don’t we try to fix the broken system? If we don’t educate future generations properly we will end up a third world country…..with a lot of prisons and law enforcement. For the record, I have stated multiple times I am an independent so I will not pick sides on who is at fault because we all are. And I 100% agree that instead of having wars and spending trillions to kill people who have not invaded our country, lets spend it on our future, the children.

    In my own little way, I am, by throwing a little bit of light on you folks who are out to destroy the single most important institution in society.

  214. avatar
    Kate April 6, 2014 at 4:45 am #

    Thinker: The quote is not actually from the flight attendant. It’s from a PR person from the airline. Here’s what she said, “The stage of her pregnancy was not apparent by observation. She did not show any signs of distress.” (http://www.adn.com/2008/04/22/382864/palins-child-diagnosed-with-down.html#ixzz1PAoAeFEI)

    It says she was not obviously in labor. It does not say she was not obviously very pregnant.

    Perhaps Palin’s physician was not decent, but she told Sarah that it was OK for her to fly back to Alaska. In fact, the doctor says Palin was not in active labor when she left Texas. The doctor eventually induced labor after Palin got to the hospital.

    This is simply not true. I have a work colleague who went from barely showing to extremely, obviously pregnant over the course of a single week around her 7th or 8th month. We were all quite amazed by her sudden transformation. It is probably unusual, but it is not impossible.

    Sigh.

    You can “sigh” all you like but I’m far more familiar with this story than you are. Also, being a Pediatric Nurse Practitioner, who has attended many births, I can tell you that women Palin’s age don’t describe an induced birth as easy. This was just another example of her hearing a term, “induced birth” and using it to back up her story. She was definitely considered high risk,not to mention a very high profile patient for the physician and yet you think her physician would have said, “sure, fly on back to Alaska, over 9 hours total, rather than going to any one of the major medical centers in Texas that were within a couple miles of where she was speaking? That tells me you have no idea what goes on in the medical world. No physician in her right mind would advocate that a patient ignore the possible impending birth of a child that’s known to have Down Syndrome and get on such a long flight with the possibility of going into labor. As Palin was not checked by a physician prior to leaving TX, it’s impossible to determine whether she was in labor but if her water had broken, which it had according to Palin’s story, she was in labor.

    Palin’s ridiculous story to the media raised far more questions than it answered. Any man who has had a wife who was pregnant would even find it ridiculous to see her walking in heels on icy sidewalks at several months pregnant as Palin was known to do. She hopped in and out of chairs without any difficulty, it’s simply not possible for a woman to move as Palin did at the stage of her pregnancy we’ve seen video from. With each successive pregnancy, you show sooner, not later. Palin has a history that is well known among her former carpool group where she couldn’t drive the kids to school for a few weeks due to her “tubal” after she had Piper, her eldest child at the time. This isn’t one person saying it but several, including the sister of a friend of mine who still lives in Wasilla to this day. She said it’s well known that Palin faked her pregnancy and although nobody is sure as to why she did, it’s definitely true. Palin told Brian Williams that she was asked to release Trig’s birth certificate and lied outright by saying she did so. She refused to help the reporters at the ADN, a local paper, who wanted to help her clear up what they termed “ridiculous rumors” about her son not being hers. Her response was to reply with a letter claiming she would sue them despite their wanting to help. The reporter who contacted her had always worked well with Palin prior to this and she had no reason to react the way she did unless she wanted to hide things. No b.c., no announcement in the paper, no pictures of her having given birth and holding the baby immediately after, etc. If she had been a Democratic governor, many of you would have been screaming about her fake birth. As it is, people just wanted her to stop her lying as she’s been known to do since her days as Mayor. She’s a vindictive bitch and that’s putting it nicely.

  215. avatar
    Kate April 6, 2014 at 4:59 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I never got involved in Trig birtherism–the story just seemed too crazy to be true, and not worth looking into.
    .

    CarlOrcas: That makes two of us.

    This has been a first for me and I honestly expected to find something, anything, that would enable me to say, “yes, it’s Palin’s baby that she gave birth to” but it didn’t happen. Her own actions and reactions kept leading me in the other direction. I’ve poured over videos, pictures, etc. and still don’t believe that she physically gave birth to him. She told Brian Williams she released the birth certificate and after doing so, several reporters wrote to her and asked her when she did so and if the could also see it. There was no response except to realize that she never released anything. Just more lies from the Palins. The book from Geoffrey Dunn, “The Lies of Sarah Palin” is also extensive and in his book, as in McGinniss’s book, their sources aren’t anonymous. They name names, including those of Palin’s security detail who question the story of her being pregnant, too, especially since she changed into her usual skin tight jeans for a flight back to Alaska from D.C. at an alleged 6.5 months pregnant! Does that sound like the behavior of a 44 yr. old woman with her 5th pregnancy? Surely the men on here who have had pregnant wives know that for a 9 hour flight, the last thing a woman or an person would want is to feel constricted, especially a pregnant woman.

  216. avatar
    Kate April 6, 2014 at 5:12 am #

    Bob:
    At the time, I read a lot about the “pregnancy” and “birth” and came to the conclusion that Sarah and Todd decided to claim Bristol’s baby as theirs.That happens all the time — the same thing happened to several families I’ve known.It’s no big deal and shouldn’t exclude someone from being president.It doesn’t even bother me if they want to lie about it because it’s their personal lives and has no bearing on the job.(Of course, if Palin were a Democrat the Wingnuts would have never, ever, ever, ever dropped the subject and Commander Zullo would be running around Texas and Alaska looking for evidence.)

    The way she handled the announcement, the “pregnancy,” and “birth” left room for a lot of speculation and people simply pounced on it.

    The main reason so many people “pounced” on it was due to her using her pregnancy as a sign of her pro-life credibility. She used the birth of this child and if she had been as concerned as she claimed she was about privacy, why would she use him as a campaign prop as shamelessly as she did? Her behavior was appalling, during her alleged pregnancy and the campaign.

  217. avatar
    Kate April 6, 2014 at 5:18 am #

    Suranis:
    I read at the time that it was across a lake, and that Palin tried to prevent him from boating on it to that he couldn’t “spy” on her. I’ll have to actually look at a map now to prove it to myself. Darn-it.

    Bristol owns a home across the lake and it was probably mistakenly attributed to her parents. They also own the house JM rented and two houses that are adjacent to theirs on the left side of their house for a total of four homes in a row. They claim they want privacy until they decide they need publicity.

    When it comes to Palin, you need to triple check things because if her lips are moving, she’s usually lying. She has quite the history.

  218. avatar
    Kate April 6, 2014 at 5:26 am #

    The Truth: “New Yorker writer Janet Malcolm cited McGinniss as a prime case of the reporter as a ‘kind of confidence man, preying on people’s vanity, ignorance, or loneliness, gaining their trust and betraying them without remorse.’”

    I am sure Palin wanted this guy to write her biography? Doubt it, especially when he moves next door. I still believe he moved next door on purpose. Whats your point? You hate Palin? Or, is it just that you don’t like me? I don’t care either way honestly.

    What you fail to accept or understand is that Joe McGinniss did not seek out the owner of the house next door to Palin and ask to rent it. She sought him out and offered it to him at a very reasonable rate, especially compared to homes in Anchorage which is over 40 miles away and would put him at a daily disadvantage in doing his investigative work as an author. McGinniss never said he was writing Palin’s bio. She attempted to write her own but it reads far more like fiction. It was the book she left the Governor’s office for because she couldn’t serve as Gov. and promote her book, making millions. That’s the morals of the woman who claimed to have a servant’s heart. I still can’t believe the McCain campaign fell for that whopper.

  219. avatar
    Thinker April 6, 2014 at 6:00 am #

    Palin’s doctor has spoken with the press and provided a written statement about her health. She said she spoke with Palin in Texas and didn’t “think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back” to Alaska the day before Trig was born. She said Palin was not in active labor when they spoke. She said she induced labor at the hospital. These are all statements attributed to the doctor, not to Palin herself. I have read commentary that Palin’s behavior that day was dangerous and irresponsible, and that the doctor should have advised her to get medical care in Texas, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen the way Palin and her doctor say it did. It could just mean they showed extremely bad judgment.
    http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2008-11/43179602.pdf
    http://www.adn.com/2008/04/22/382864/palins-child-diagnosed-with-down.html#ixzz1PAoAeFEI

    Kate: You can “sigh” all you like but I’m far more familiar with this story than you are.Also, being a Pediatric Nurse Practitioner, who has attended many births, I can tell you that women Palin’s age don’t describe an induced birth as easy.This was just another example of her hearing a term, “induced birth” and using it to back up her story.She was definitely considered high risk,not to mention a very high profile patient for the physician and yet you think her physician would have said, “sure, fly on back to Alaska, over 9 hours total, rather than going to any one of the major medical centers in Texas that were within a couple miles of where she was speaking?That tells me you have no idea what goes on in the medical world.No physician in her right mind would advocate that a patient ignore the possible impending birth of a child that’s known to have Down Syndrome and get on such a long flight with the possibility of going into labor.As Palin was not checked by a physician prior to leaving TX, it’s impossible to determine whether she was in labor but if her water had broken, which it had according to Palin’s story, she was in labor.

  220. avatar
    Majority Will April 6, 2014 at 8:11 am #

    The Truth: Fear mongering bigot? Hahaha, good one but heavily used.

    The truth March 9, 2014 at 12:49 am #

    “Oh the obots sure do dream, in their world there is no deception by Obama. He WILL be exposed, the lies will overcome him and he will fail to convince anyone otherwise. If he is a citizen, all he needs to do is show evidence and not hide behind attorneys? There is not one shred of evidence he is a citizen, not one! I cant wait for the day he is impeached for fraud, all the people who laughed about “birthers” will hang their head in shame.”

    The truth March 9, 2014 at 11:23 am #

    Unfortunately, after Obama is exposed once and for all, all of the Obots will become another unemployed American thus driving up our tax burden even further. They could of course write a best selling book on how they were deceived, I would probably buy one just to see how they were physiologically transformed into someone who does not seek truth. And I would like someone to present me with one document proving Obama is an American citizen, just one, does someone here have such a document? It is not his birth certificate, not his SSN or his selective service record, by the way not one person of his graduating class at the college he claims to have attended for two years recognizes him, not one! This is a very mysterious man indeed. I will give him credit, he is an expert at fraud, of course he does get a lot of help.”

    These words filled with debunked lies read like the bizarre ramblings of a fear mongering bigot and birther troll.

    source: http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2014/03/giving-up-commenting-at-birther-report-for-lent/

  221. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 6, 2014 at 8:11 am #

    That’s my question, and between the Palin book and Game Change: Obama and the Clintons, McCain and Palin, and the Race of a Lifetime I hope to get some answers.

    Kate: . I still can’t believe the McCain campaign fell for that whopper.

  222. avatar
    Suranis April 6, 2014 at 8:21 am #

    Yes, and minorities do more violent crime and any white man would be afraid to drive through Detroit and the fact that some other reporter called the guy a confidence trickster over the fact that he formed a working relationship a GUILTY man and wrote a book calling him GUILTY all makes it all ok that a guy ranted a house near the Palins and received Death threats over it. Because it was all McGuinness fault really so that makes the Palins A OK.

    AND that photo was not taken from Palins house but from the lakeshore and that totally proves that McGuiness was there to spy on Palin’s house.

    Dude, you brought up the violence of Minorities and the supposition that you could be attacked for no reason going down the street in Detroit. The fact that everyone else correctly spotted you were talking about the “knock out game” crap means you brought it up. But it does make it ok that McGuiness received death threats because most whites are not like that and Minorities are worse you know.

    If that was not your point, why bring up minorities? Minorities did not threaten McGuiness. The only reason for you to bring up minoritieswas to minimize the fact that the guy was threatened by those on the side of Palin, with the inference that minorities are worse so the good old palin lovers are not so bad.

    And the difference between you and me is that I posted stuff to correct my error and apologized for it. The fact that I pretty much cut through your crap to what you were really trying to say does not make me demean you or throw all kinds of trash your way, it simply is saying what you are trying to say without all the camouflage.

    Basically you are saying it was understandable for McGuiness to be threatened and he deserved it because minorities are all violent and cut right to attacking people, a defamation case brought by a guy who later lost every single appeal of his case and who absolutely was guilty got settled, and he rented a house at a discount in the same town and near the subject of his book.

    If you find it upsetting that someone came right out and saying what you have been saying for the past 100 posts, then maybe you should stop saying it. Free advice there.

    The Truth: You demean me, throw all kinds of trash my way and you are the one who is not accurate. If you bothered to read the threads you would see that Palin took a picture of McGuiness claiming he was spying on their house, he was looking the other way. Did she take the picture through a forest? Instead of trying to take cheap shots at me you should get the facts straight first. If you bothered to read my comments you would see I have chastised the violent comments and actions against McGuiness. I hope you don’t live your life with hate for anyone who disagrees with your views, you wont be happy for a long time.,

  223. avatar
    Suranis April 6, 2014 at 8:32 am #

    Actually, thinking about it, does anyone have any link to that photo That the Palins took when they were spying on McGuinness? I don’t think I have ever seen it. I heard it was from the lakeshore but considering all the confusion and 15 different version of the facts that this woman puts out I’d like to confirm it.

  224. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 6, 2014 at 10:24 am #

    Suranis:
    Actually, thinking about it, does anyone have any link to that photo That the Palins took when they were spying on McGuinness? I don’t think I have ever seen it. I heard it was from the lakeshore but considering all the confusion and 15 different version of the facts that this woman puts out I’d like to confirm it.

    I’ve searched for the supposed picture and can’t find anything. There are lots of other pictures, however, that provide even more perspective on this tempest in Wasilla.

    First is this one that shows the two houses. Obviously shot from a boat on the lake:

    http://greghensel.photoshelter.com/image/I0000K65dsmowmd4

    This one includes what it says is Palin’s first mention of McGinniss on Facebook. It also includes some aerials and a close-up of the rental property:

    http://palingates.blogspot.com/2010/05/sarah-palin-eternal-victim-nextdoor.html

    Finally, a short piece from the Washington Post on how McGinniss came to rent the property:

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/reliable-source/2010/05/sarah_palins_new_neighbor_how.html

    But…..no picture of McGinniss even looking at Palin’s property, let alone spying.

  225. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 6, 2014 at 10:29 am #

    Kate: This has been a first for me and I honestly expected to find something, anything, that would enable me to say, “yes, it’s Palin’s baby that she gave birth to” but it didn’t happen.

    Did you miss this 2011 piece from Salon?

    http://www.salon.com/2011/04/22/sarah_palin_trig_conspiracy_theory/

    I find it difficult to believe that all the people in this story were in on some sort of conspiracy with Palin.

  226. avatar
    The Truth April 6, 2014 at 11:09 am #

    Crustacean: Oh, those darned minorities are the worst, aren’t they, Truth?And that cotton-pickin’ “knockout game” – how barbaric!

    Well, at least as barbaric as a made-up thing can be…

    For those that keep insisting I first mentioned the knock out game in this thread but fail to look for yourself, here is the original “first time” mention of the knock out game. And yes, I was the one who mentioned violent crimes with minorities which indeed is an issue, but then again lets all just ignore that. Ask the mothers of those young people being killed if it should be ignored, if politics should come first, if you are racist because it is talked about. I was also the first to mention better education instead of prisons. Yep, I am a bigot, that’s what us bigots do, we point out issues and offer solutions.

  227. avatar
    Suranis April 6, 2014 at 11:15 am #

    …. in a piece where you casually mentioned that 60% of the US prison population are minorities in order to try and prove your earlier assertion that more violent crime is done by Minorities and people will be attacked for no reason if they go through Detroit and other places. And therefore Minorities are bad and Joe McGuiness deserved it.

  228. avatar
    Suranis April 6, 2014 at 11:17 am #

    Yeah thanks for that. I have to say that can reasonably be said to be pretty close to the Palin house, if behind a line of trees that would block a pervy person with binoculars and a camera from looking into the house McGuiness was renting. ;)

    CarlOrcas: I’ve searched for the supposed picture and can’t find anything. There are lots of other pictures, however, that provide even more perspective on this tempest in Wasilla.

  229. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 6, 2014 at 11:26 am #

    Suranis:
    Yeah thanks for that. I have to say that can reasonably be said to be pretty close to the Palin house, if behind a line of trees that would block a pervy person with binoculars and a camera from looking into the house McGuiness was renting.

    Homes on view lots are often close to each other.

    But, for the sake of discussion, let’s say McGinniss was watching the Palin house exactly what could he write about that wouldn’t make him look like a jerk?

  230. avatar
    Suranis April 6, 2014 at 11:31 am #

    Er… that Todd Palin likes to do barbeque?

  231. avatar
    The Truth April 6, 2014 at 11:35 am #

    Suranis:
    …. in a piece where you casually mentioned that 60% of the US prison population are minorities in order to try and prove your earlier assertion that more violent crime is done by Minorities and people will be attacked for no reason if they go through Detroit and other places. And therefore Minorities are bad and Joe McGuiness deserved it.

    McGuiness deserved it? I have repeatedly commented on the violent statements made or cant you read? Therefore minorities are bad? I am trying to point out that there is an issue, mainly in some large cities, and nobody is trying to fix it with education. You concoct some type of slanted version of who or what I am, save it for yourself and keep ignoring issues, see how much better it gets. I want ALL people regardless of race color or creed to have a chance at success and to not live in fear of violence, corruption or greed. If you have issue with that too bad. .

  232. avatar
    Suranis April 6, 2014 at 11:47 am #

    Yip, you’ve been saying Joe McGuiness deserved it. For example

    The Truth: That makes it even worse!!! That shows this guy intentionally moved to be close to Palin. He cant research for a book unless he lives next door? He cant live only 40 miles away? Wow, unbelievable.

    For a guy that now insists that butter would not melt in your mouth you certainly were pushing every bad thing you could find on the victim to say that the victim deserved it. Of course being called on it you cry your eyes out.

    And if you think the numbers of minorities beating people up and in jail are something tragic, why did you bring them up in a thread on a woman in Alaska? YOU are the one that brought up minority violence out of left field. One could conclude it was a simple distraction and dilution. Whites only threaten but minorities actually do bad things therefore what happened to the victim isn’t so bad so therefore the victim is deserved this not really that bad thing and is a bad person.

  233. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 6, 2014 at 12:00 pm #

    The photo posted on Facebook by Palin is in McGinniss’ book. CarlOrcas linked to an article containing it in a previous comment. The photo shows McGinniss talking on his cell phone and looking in the opposite direction from the Palin house.

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_y1obSLk0ax4/S_uafTJkqFI/AAAAAAAAF44/EhCAdCribuA/s1600/palin+neighbour+facebook.jpg

    It would appear that the photo was taken from the shoreline or perhaps the Palin’s dock. They crept out and snagged a picture of McGinniss in his bathrobe.

    Suranis: Actually, thinking about it, does anyone have any link to that photo That the Palins took when they were spying on McGuinness? I don’t think I have ever seen it. I heard it was from the lakeshore but considering all the confusion and 15 different version of the facts that this woman puts out I’d like to confirm it.

  234. avatar
    Majority Will April 6, 2014 at 12:01 pm #

    Suranis:
    Yip, you’ve been saying Joe McGuiness deserved it. For example

    For a guy that now insists that butter would not melt in your mouth you certainly were pushing every bad thing you could find on the victim to say that the victim deserved it. Of course being called on it you cry your eyes out.

    And if you think the numbers of minorities beating people up and in jail are something tragic, why did you bring them up in a thread on a woman in Alaska? YOU are the one that brought up minority violence out of left field. One could conclude it was a simple distraction and dilution. Whites only threaten but minorities actually do bad things therefore what happened to the victim isn’t so bad so therefore the victim is deserved this not really that bad thing and is a bad person.

    As I said earlier about some of the idiotic comments from birther trolls that skate through here:

    “. . . confusing anecdote with widespread evidence and justifying bad behavior because someone else did something similar (i.e., two wrongs make a right).”

    (excerpt from: Intellectually lazy (e.g., not bothering to check even the easiest of credible sources for facts before commenting, faking expertise with uninformed opinion or citing ridiculous, unqualified sources) and lying bigots are sometimes thin-skinned as well when you call him or her out on blatant lies, fear mongering bigotry and politically motivated smears but just as irritating are the habits of confusing anecdote with widespread evidence and justifying bad behavior because someone else did something similar (i.e., two wrongs make a right).

  235. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 6, 2014 at 12:19 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: t would appear that the photo was taken from the shoreline or perhaps the Palin’s dock. They crept out and snagged a picture of McGinniss in his bathrobe.

    Check this picture taken from the lake (already posted but repeated here so people don’t have to go looking for it):

    http://greghensel.photoshelter.com/image/I0000K65dsmowmd4

    It looks to me like the photo of McGinniss was taken from the ground near the shore…past the little shed which you can see in this picture….and a ways from the Palin home.

    I am not aware of any pictures taken or posted by McGinniss of the Palin home, are you?

  236. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 6, 2014 at 1:54 pm #

    MgGinniss’ book contains one picture of the Palin’s house taken from the water side. It is attributed to the Associated Press. He has one photo attributed to himself of the drive into his house that shows at the side a bit of the Palin’s 10-foot fence (at least that’s what it appears to be in context).

    …There’s an abandoned delivery truck and three abandoned cars and an abandoned boat and three unused sheds in weeds at the edge of the clearing. The weeds stop at a ten-foot-high wooden fence , the uglier, back side facing Catherine Taylor’s property.

    Mcginniss, Joe (2011-09-20). The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin (Kindle Locations 133-135). Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

    That was before the Palins made the fence taller.

    CarlOrcas: I am not aware of any pictures taken or posted by McGinniss of the Palin home, are you?

  237. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 6, 2014 at 2:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That was before the Palins made the fence taller.

    Wonder if it runs all the way to the water…..thus preventing the taking of the sort of picture they took of McGinniss in his bathrobe?

  238. avatar
    Thinker April 6, 2014 at 3:08 pm #

    LOL. Good luck, Carl. Kate started her first post on the Trig Trutherism topic by saying that the part of Sarah’s story that she found the most puzzling was that the flight attendants on her flight to Alaska the day before Trig was born had said that “the state of her pregnancy was not apparent from her appearance,” which Kate took to mean that the flight attendants did not notice “how large she was, as seen in one pic taken a few days prior to her “giving birth”, and her frequent trips to the lavatory on the plane.”

    Here’s the actual statement from the airline’s PR person (not the flight attendant him/herself), “The stage of her pregnancy was not apparent by observation. She did not show any signs of distress.” When I pointed out to Kate that the statement is obviously saying that Palin did not appear to be in labor during the flight–not that she did not appear to be in the late stage of her pregnancy–Kate’s response didn’t address her obvious misunderstanding of the quote, which she had said was the most puzzling part of the whole story. Instead of acknowledging she had misunderstood what had been reported and incorporating that into her understanding of the events, she moved on to another part of Palin’s story that she found unbelievable, and she mischaracterized what had been reported by ignoring that Palin’s doctor had backed up Palin’s story that she was not in active labor when she was in Texas, that she believed it was OK for Palin to fly back to Alaska, and that she had induced labor after Palin arrived at the hospital.

    Does this argumentation style remind you of anyone?

    CarlOrcas: Did you miss this 2011 piece from Salon?

    http://www.salon.com/2011/04/22/sarah_palin_trig_conspiracy_theory/

    I find it difficult to believe that all the people in this story were in on some sort of conspiracy with Palin.

  239. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 6, 2014 at 4:26 pm #

    Thinker: LOL. Good luck, Carl.

    I’m not holding my breath waiting for a response. Wait….make that a reasonable response.

    Thinker: Does this argumentation style remind you of anyone?

    Several anyones, in fact.

  240. avatar
    Whatever4 April 6, 2014 at 4:48 pm #

    Kate: This has been a first for me and I honestly expected to find something, anything, that would enable me to say, “yes, it’s Palin’s baby that she gave birth to” but it didn’t happen.Her own actions and reactions kept leading me in the other direction.

    My take is that Palin was pregnant, but knew the child had trisomy 21 so she kept it low key. When her water broke, she was still weeks from her due date. I’m about as ignorant as can be about maters maternal, but the Mayo Clinic says: “Most women who have preterm premature rupture of membranes deliver within one week of their water breaking.” So she chats with a medical professional somewhere and gets on a plane for home. That’s her choice.

    Maybe she thought the baby wouldn’t survive, maybe she did. Maybe it was someone else’s baby and she wanted it for publicity. Again, her choice.

    There’s far more substantial policy problems with Palin that I really don’t care about her private life.

  241. avatar
    Majority Will April 6, 2014 at 7:01 pm #

    Whatever4: There’s far more substantial policy problems with Palin that I really don’t care about her private life.

    Agreed.

  242. avatar
    Kate April 6, 2014 at 7:49 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Did you miss this 2011 piece from Salon?

    http://www.salon.com/2011/04/22/sarah_palin_trig_conspiracy_theory/

    I find it difficult to believe that all the people in this story were in on some sort of conspiracy with Palin.

    I’ve followed this for years now and have kept up with much of the story that was not revealed by Elliott in his Salon piece. There are so many questions that ruin the credibility of Palin’s physician and herself. A 44 year old woman is high risk and when added to the fact that she was carrying a DS child, she absolutely should have been seeing a specialist since the day her amnio showed positive findings for DS. Yet, it never happened. The hospital where she delivered isn’t accredited to deliver twins, let alone high risk pregnancies. She and her husband passed the neonatal unit that she would have been sent to if she had been seeing a high risk specialist. It’s not just a matter of the patient’s preference, it comes down to insurance which would prohibit a General Practitioner from delivering a high risk pregnancy at a hospital that was not accredited to do so. Being a Pediatric Nurse Practitioner, there were so many things that raised questions that were never answered or even close to being answered, yet I”m sorry I can’t remember all of them at this time. Here’s a great article, one of hundreds on Palin on the site, that may help you to understand why I still have many doubts. Sarah Palin is known to have been a liar and will easily lie to cover her own ass without a moment’s hesitation as seen in past and present day behavior.

    As far as there being problems with Palin that don’t relate to her private life, I agree, but I also feel the fact that she willingly lied, IMO, about the birth of “her” 5th child, casts serious doubts on anything she does politically. She was not above using her position as Governor to cover up his birth certificate and other info pertaining to her family, including the birth of her first grandchild, her sister’s divorce, her SIL’s arrest for robbery during which her young son accompanied her (she retained custody and received a slap on the wrist) and many other deplorable things that other families would end up doing time for. Right now, she’s being trying to withhold her grandson from his father despite him fighting for custody, going so far as to release a statement that said the case was settled. The Judge who was in charge of the case (appointed by Palin) finally recused himself and now the case is going forward. Bristol would take Tripp to AZ for months at a time and then claim his father wasn’t interested in seeing him yet he also obviously didn’t have the $$ to fly back and forth to AZ twice a week nor did they care about Tripp not seeing his Dad despite him expressing his desire to see him. They are a sick, vindictive family who seek revenge on anyone who dares to cross them and they don’t stop until they succeed.

    FWIW, a good friend of mine where I used to live has a sister who still lives in Wasilla. She was a member of the carpool that SP participated in at the time she was pregnant with Piper and clearly remembers Palin’s excuse of not feeling up to driving on a few different occasions due to her “surgery”. Palin had told the women she had a tuballigation after delivering Piper. It is extremely rare that women become pregnant after a tubal but if that had been the case, it’s also odd that she didn’t say so at the time. But, as I said, Palin is a known liar, I’d put nothing past her, nothing at all. If her lips are moving, chances are good that she’s spinning more b.s.

    http://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/04/questions-serious-journalists-should.html

  243. avatar
    Kate April 6, 2014 at 7:54 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I’m not holding my breath waiting for a response. Wait….make that a reasonable response.

    Several anyones, in fact.

    Wow, you’re not going to hold your breath waiting for a “reasonable” response? Who the hell decided you were in charge of what was reasonable or not? The spokesperson from the airline could have only received her info from the flight attendants in regards to Palin’s behavior and the stage of her pregnancy.

    I’ve never been known to spin crazy stories or go round and round debating the nonsense so many do on here but I happen to have followed this story far closer than either of you. Please skip my posts. You obviously are extremely closeminded regarding other opinions and are basing your response on one article found in Salon despite others that had already debunked what was said in the article PRIOR to it being printed and afterwards.

    Whether I knew anything about Palin politically or not, my personal experience in the healthcare field would have led me to question her story and have been told the same from many friends who don’t keep up with politics.

    I’ve never used another name than the one I have now and I’m sure Dr. C could vouch for that although I really don’t care if you believe me or not.

  244. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 6, 2014 at 8:27 pm #

    Kate: FWIW, a good friend of mine where I used to live has a sister who still lives in Wasilla.

    Holy cow…..this sounds like a bad Saturday Night Live routine.

    Innuendo piled on rumor to support your own bizarre conclusions.

    But….let’s cut to the chase and deal with the question from my previous message: Do you believe everyone quoted in the Salon is lying and/or involved in some conspiracy orchestrated by Sarah Palin? “Yes” or “no” will suffice.

    As far as the suggestions for questions for “serious journalists” you linked to…..well, what is there to say. It’s crap.

    Those aren’t serious questions for anyone. They are the stock and trade of keyboard conspiracy warriors who are convinced they see the real truth that eludes all others.

  245. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 6, 2014 at 8:33 pm #

    Kate: Wow, you’re not going to hold your breath waiting for a “reasonable” response? Who the hell decided you were in charge of what was reasonable or not?

    I get to decide what I think is reasonable. And, to put it bluntly, I don’t find much of what you post reasonable.

  246. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 6, 2014 at 8:46 pm #

    Kate: Strange that Palin was so upset about someone living next door to her considering she spent over 3/4 of the time he was there in Arizona, as previously arranged.

    I think it is pretty clear that Palin was mainly concerned about protecting the privacy of her children, from someone who might write about them or observe them in the neighborhood. I don’t think that was an unreasonable concern given this guy’s track record. And eventually he did after all devote an entire chapter to Trig Birtherism. (Please do not tell me that he said he did not believe the rumors himself. I know that. But he printed this garbage anyway, and now his book is the recognized prime source.)

    This gist of your earlier post seems to be that it is somehow permissible to write about Trig, because the target is a politician that you (and I) do not like. I am not impressed. This reminds me of the principle of “collateral damage doesn’t count”. It doesn’t matter that the baby in the car seat got shot, because the target was the bad gansta across the street.

    The Birthers and other hate groups go after the Obama children in despicable ways that they justify as going after the parent that they hate. And they resort to fantastic rumor mongering: That the children are not really Obama’s, because his wife is a man, for example.

    I am sometimes foolish enough to try to tell birthers that this rumermongering does not help their cause. It makes no difference. It will make no difference to you, for me to say that there are many legitimate and documented reasons to dislike Palin. Repeating or referencing this book’s rumors about her children only weakens your case.

  247. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 6, 2014 at 8:59 pm #

    Re: CarlOrcas
    Kate: Wow, you’re not going to hold your breath waiting for a “reasonable” response?

    Apologies for Carl. He used to work at the Sizzler steakhouse. So he can’t help putting a little flame on every plate. I find it is best to put him on an imaginary “ignore” button.

  248. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 6, 2014 at 9:14 pm #

    For internal reasons, I have suspended reading the McGinniss book until next Friday. But in the mean time, I’ve resumed reading Game Change, about the 2008 election. It looks like the first part of that book is all about the Democratic primary race, but I should eventually reach the part about McCain’s decision to select Palin as a running mate. This book is just as fascinating as it’s sequel Double Down about the 2012 race.

    I seem to have developed a taste for political non-fiction.

    These books remind me of the old adage about making sausage.

  249. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 6, 2014 at 9:20 pm #

    They didn’t have a neighborhood.

    Burnell L. Harrison: I think it is pretty clear that Palin was mainly concerned about protecting the privacy of her children, from someone who might write about them or observe them in the neighborhood

  250. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 6, 2014 at 9:21 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    I should eventually reach the part about McCain’s decision to select Palin as a running mate.

    If you’re anything like me, you will audibly gasp at some parts of that story.

    It’s amazing what a bullet we dodged when he named That Woman to his ticket, and they nearly won. Makes me woozy just thinking about it.

  251. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 6, 2014 at 9:26 pm #

    Normal people, when they have a problem with a neighbor talk to that neighbor and try to work out a solution. They don’t immediately start a publicity campaign in an attempt to demonize the person they disagree with. Even if the Palins had a legitimate complaint, their response was bullying.

  252. avatar
    Thinker April 6, 2014 at 9:35 pm #

    Here’s what you said about the statement from the flight attendant. “The quote that I found the most puzzling was the one from the flight attendants who said the state of her pregnancy was not apparent from her appearance.” You went on to make the point that if Sarah had really been a day away from delivering her baby, she would have been very large and would have been making frequent trips to the bathroom, and that it would have been impossible for the flight attendants not have noticed these things. The problem is that the statement from the airline does not say that the flight attendants did not notice that she was in the late stage of her pregnancy. The statement says that the “stage of her pregnancy was not apparent by observation” and that the flight attendants did not see “any signs of distress.” The “stage in her pregnancy” referenced in the statement is obviously labor, not just that she was nearly full term. The statement doesn’t say she didn’t seem 8 months pregnant. It says she didn’t appear to be in labor. This fits with the statements from Palin and her doctor who have both said that she was not in active labor when she traveled to Alaska that day.

    I know you don’t believe she was pregnant when she was on that flight, but the airline statement is consistent with Sarah’s version of events.

    As for the part about where the statement originated, I pointed that out only because a second-hand source is less reliable than a statement from someone with personal knowledge of a situation. This can be important when parsing words like I am doing because a second-hand source would probably not be as precise and detailed as an eye-witness account.

    But, I’m out. I can see why so many places on the web have banned Trig Truthers. LOL.

    Kate: The spokesperson from the airline could have only received her info from the flight attendants in regards to Palin’s behavior and the stage of her pregnancy.

  253. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 6, 2014 at 9:53 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: They didn’t have a neighborhood.

    Everybody has a neighborhood. Some are more dense than others.

  254. avatar
    Kate April 6, 2014 at 9:53 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I get to decide what I think is reasonable. And, to put it bluntly, I don’t find much of what you post reasonable.

    You find it reasonable that a sitting Governor who claimed she was having contractions during her speech, this quite a few hours AFTER she spoke to her doctor, is also high risk due to her age and status of baby’s health, would get on a plane and fly 8+ hours to Alaska?

    If you think those questions are unreasonable, then you have no interest in reading anything that may contradict the conclusion you’ve already reached. However, I find it extremely unusual that any mother would forget when and where she gave birth to her child. She’s said Anchorage at one speech and Wasilla in another. That’s only one of her many contradictions.

    I’m done trying to speak to you about anything as you’re not interested in a debate, you’re looking for an argument and trying to demean me. Your opinion is of no interest to me. You’ve obviously made up your mind, just like the birthers did about President Obama. As for me, I’m still questioning when and who gave birth to Palin’s 5th child and am open to learning the truth and could be accepting of something different if shown the proper paperwork or proof.

  255. avatar
    Kate April 6, 2014 at 10:04 pm #

    Burnell L. Harrison: I think it is pretty clear that Palin was mainly concerned about protecting the privacy of her children, from someone who might write about them or observe them in the neighborhood.I don’t think that was an unreasonable concern given this guy’s track record.And eventually he did after all devote an entire chapter to Trig Birtherism.(Please do not tell me that he said he did not believe the rumors himself.I know that.But he printed this garbage anyway, and now his book is the recognized prime source.)

    This gist of your earlier post seems to be that it is somehow permissible to write about Trig, because the target is a politician that you (and I) do not like.I am not impressed.This reminds me of the principle of “collateral damage doesn’t count”. It doesn’t matter that the baby in the car seat got shot, because the target was the bad gansta across the street.

    The Birthers and other hate groups go after the Obama children in despicable ways that they justify as going after the parent that they hate.And they resort to fantastic rumor mongering: That the children are not really Obama’s, because his wife is a man, for example.

    I am sometimes foolish enough to try to tell birthers that this rumermongering does not help their cause.It makes no difference.It will make no difference to you, for me to say that there are many legitimate and documented reasons to dislike Palin.Repeating or referencing this book’s rumors about her children only weakens your case.

    Palin repeatedly pushed her children in front of the media, taking them everywhere with her so I really don’t think her main reason was their privacy. She loved the fact that she could turn her fans against McGinniss and said horrific things about him, including accusing him of being able to watch her daughter’s bedroom from his home.

    Why did Palin not cooperate with the journalist from the ADN who said she wanted to write a story that would put all the rumors to rest? She instead had Palin threatening to sue her. Palin also used her children, especially Trig, to foster her pro-life credibility. Her own actions have resulted in their excessive publicity. If she had kept her children away from the public eye, after their initial introduction, things would have been much different. She shares a great deal of the blame for her children being in the press.

    Much of McGinniss’ book has quotes from named sources. Palin threatened to sue him, long before it was found out he had prostate cancer, and yet nothing happened. She couldn’t have withstood the scrutiny of a lawsuit. I wish I could agree with you that Palin’s primary concern was her children’s privacy, but if that was true, would she have pushed them in front of national television in reality shows, repeatedly? Would any mother who truly cared about her children’s privacy and well-being accept the nomination for V.P. knowing their 16 yr. old daughter was pregnant and unmarried? I’d think it equally wrong for a father to do so. Palin has always been selfish and sadly her parenting reflects the same attitude.

  256. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 6, 2014 at 10:32 pm #

    Kate: If you think those questions are unreasonable, then you have no interest in reading anything that may contradict the conclusion you’ve already reached. However, I find it extremely unusual that any mother would forget when and where she gave birth to her child. She’s said Anchorage at one speech and Wasilla in another. That’s only one of her many contradictions.

    Yes, they’re unreasonable and for the same reason the all the “questions” about Barack Obama are unreasonable: They are at odds with the known facts.

    Kate: As for me, I’m still questioning when and who gave birth to Palin’s 5th child and am open to learning the truth and could be accepting of something different if shown the proper paperwork or proof.

    I’ll ask you the same question I have asked innumerable birthers: What “proper paperwork or proof” would satisfy you?

  257. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 7, 2014 at 1:35 am #

    There is no justification for doing the right thing. Which makes it rather dull, and the people who insist upon it sound like prigs.

    But the justifications for doing the wrong thing flow endlessly and so provide us inexhaustible outrage and amusement.

    1. The Palin kids would be invisible to writers who might exploit them if they were on the lake, or going to school, or shopping at the nearest convenience store (where ever that might be) , because THEY HAVE NO NEIGHBORHOOD!

    No comment to this. It is way above my pay grade.

    2. It doesn’t matter if a Respected Author harms the handicapped child of a politician, because he is really just trying to get at the politician that we all hate.

    3. It is OK for a writer to repeat scurrilous rumors that are exploitative and harmful to a child, just so long as he makes a statement somewhere to the effect that he does not actually believe the rumors himself.

    4. Politicians exploit their children by putting them out in public, so that makes it OK for others to exploit them too.

    One of the things that I hate about Politicians in general is that they put their families out like that. Palin is one of the worst, but they pretty much all do it. The Obama’s also put their kids into public appearances.

    Justification #4 is relevant to the case of little Johnny. Johnny is dreadfully abused by his parents at home, so it won’t matter if we slap him around a bit also.

    Right?

  258. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 7, 2014 at 1:45 am #

    Just curious as to your justification for making straw men of your opponents’ arguments rather than taking the time to understand them and addressing their real merits.

    Burnell L. Harrison: There is no justification for doing the right thing. Which makes it rather dull, and the people who insist upon it sound like prigs.

    But the justifications for doing the wrong thing flow endlessly and so provide us inexhaustible outrage and amusement.

  259. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 7, 2014 at 1:48 am #

    In what way is the child harmed? Your objections are rather vague, almost as if you were trying to foment a dispute rather than to argue a point.

    Burnell L. Harrison: 2. It doesn’t matter if a Respected Author harms the handicapped child of a politician, because he is really just trying to get at the politician that we all hate.

  260. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 7, 2014 at 1:49 am #

    A certain 5-letter word beginning with t and ending with ll comes to mind.

    Slartibartfast: Just curious as to your justification for making straw men of your opponents’ arguments rather than taking the time to understand them and addressing their real merits.

  261. avatar
    Burnell L. Harrison April 7, 2014 at 1:53 am #

    Slartibartfast: Just curious as to your justification for making straw men of your opponents’ arguments rather than taking the time to understand them and addressing their real merits.

    Ok. Help me to understand how the Palins have no neighborhood.

    Dr. Conspiracy: In what way is the child harmed?

    A child is harmed when a book is published that contains rumors of the legitimacy of his birth.

  262. avatar
    Slartibartfast April 7, 2014 at 2:09 am #

    Burnell,

    Every point has a neighborhood (that was a math joke—Doc probably got it ;-) )

    The point about the Palin’s neighborhood was that the kids wouldn’t be running around to the neighbors and the corner convenience store under the watchful eye of their neighbor. It is dishonest to complain about types of spying Mr. McGuinniss had no opportunity to do.

    Now will you tell me your justification for misrepresenting your opponents? And presenting those misrepresentations in such an inflammatory way?

    Burnell L. Harrison: Ok.Help me to understand how the Palins have no neighborhood.

    A child is harmed when a book is published that contains rumors of the legitimacy of his birth.

  263. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 7, 2014 at 2:22 am #

    Slartibartfast:
    Just curious as to your justification for making straw men of your opponents’ arguments rather than taking the time to understand them and addressing their real merits.

    It’s easier. Doesn’t take as much time or work.

  264. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 7, 2014 at 2:46 am #

    Burnell L. Harrison: Ok. Help me to understand how the Palins have no neighborhood.

    Have you looked at a map of where they live?

    They’re on a strip of land between a major highway, the railroad tracks and the north shore of the lake. There are a couple dozen homes on the strip of land which is adjacent to a Best Western motel and stretches along a half mile or so of the shoreline.

    There are no schools, no shops or stores in the strip or even on their side of the highway.

    There are several strip malls north of their house a quarter of a mile or so away…..across the busiest highway in the area and those railroad tracks. Major shopping is a mile or two down the highway to the east. The only way to get to any of them safely is by car.

    There is no “neighborhood” for the.kids to roam on foot or even bicycles. That’s what most of us think of when you talk about a neighborhood and that doesn’t apply to where Palin lives.

  265. avatar
    RanTalbott April 7, 2014 at 6:10 am #

    CarlOrcas: Have you looked at a map of where they live?

    I hadn’t before, because I didn’t care. Now that you’ve brought it up, I have. For anyone else whose curiosity has been piqued, the lat/lon for (insert favorite map server here) is 61.57746600, -149.480217

    But it tells me nothing about whether it’s a “neighborhood”. Because that depends, not on whether the kids can walk to shopping, but on whether they have “neighbors” or “strangers who live nearby”.

    The google photomap shows large wooded areas, a couple of cleared vacant lots that appear to have potential for BMX or flying kites/model airplanes, a lake that’s probably good for swimming and canoeing (and, possibly fishing and ice skating), and some paved roads that are probably suitable for long bike rides because they probably have very little traffic.

    Depending on the attitudes of the people who own those woods and lots, and who drive those roads, it could be either “a wonderful neighborhood, full of places to play and explore” or “an isolated hell” for growing kids.

    It may not be _your_ choice, but there are lots of people who strongly _prefer_ a (semi-)rural life.

    (I, personally, wouldn’t want to live in that particular spot, because of the climate and proximity to the Wicked Witch of the North. But I’d probably be quite happy to settle in a similar-looking area with a less-ridiculous latitude).

  266. avatar
    Lupin April 7, 2014 at 8:33 am #

    The, shall we say, “pro-Palin” arguments on this thread are insane.

    If my neighbor — no matter annoying he might become — has done nothing illegal, I certainly don’t have the right to sic my flying monkeys on him.

    What Palin did was wrong, possibly actionable, and what her followers did was reprehensible.

  267. avatar
    RanTalbott April 7, 2014 at 9:00 am #

    Lupin: What Palin did was wrong, possibly actionable, and what her followers did was reprehensible.

    And, unfortunately, (increasingly??) common. I had my mind blown by this little turd in the public punchbowl:

    http://www.westernjournalism.com/city-permits-muslim-group-desecrate-catholic-church/

    which brought out crazies openly calling for mass murder, and even pogroms.

    I just hope whatever NSA app they have monitoring blogs is programmed to sift through what people are actually writing: next week I’m taking my first plane trip in 25 years to go to a family reunion, and I’d hate to find out that posting there has landed me on the no-fly list.

  268. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 7, 2014 at 9:01 am #

    All the fish died from pollution so I doubt it’s much good for swimming. As for bike riding, the Palin property has no road. Here’s a description from McGinniss:

    Take the Parks Highway to Wasilla, proceed past all the big-box stores and fast-food outlets to the sign for the Best Western . Turn left, then left again at the stop sign just before the Best Western parking lot. That’s called West Lake Lucille Drive, but it’s only a dirt road, about a hundred yards long. Turn right at the end , just before the fence. Catherine Taylor’s house will be up the short driveway, toward the lake.

    Mcginniss, Joe (2011-09-20). The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin (Kindle Locations 76-80). Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

    and

    There are a couple of cabins in the woods on either side. In less than a hundred yards the lane ends at a clearing marked with DO NOT ENTER and NO TRESPASSING signs. There’s an abandoned delivery truck and three abandoned cars and an abandoned boat and three unused sheds in weeds at the edge of the clearing. The weeds stop at a ten-foot-high wooden fence, the uglier, back side facing Catherine Taylor’s property.

    Mcginniss, Joe (2011-09-20). The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin (Kindle Locations 132-135). Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

    The only legal access to the Palin property is by float plane, but they drive across the Taylor property without permission.:

    Catherine [Taylor] didn’t like being bullied. She told Todd he had no right to cut across her property to get to his own. Todd told her, very plainly, that Sarah was mayor and they could do whatever they wanted, and it would be a mistake for her to try to stop them. Catherine called Sarah, who at least pretended to be more reasonable. Todd then called Catherine and said, “I don’t want you calling my wife again.”

    Mcginniss, Joe (2011-09-20). The Rogue: Searching for the Real Sarah Palin (Kindle Locations 168-171). Crown Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

    A local repairman duct taped cardboard over his license plates before coming to the house to make repairs. Another person who helped deliver something to McGinniss had the window of his truck shot out.

    Before McGinniss came, the police broke up construction of a meth lab in the house.

    RanTalbott: The google photomap shows large wooded areas, a couple of cleared vacant lots that appear to have potential for BMX or flying kites/model airplanes, a lake that’s probably good for swimming and canoeing (and, possibly fishing and ice skating), and some paved roads that are probably suitable for long bike rides because they probably have very little traffic

  269. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 7, 2014 at 9:03 am #

    As they say: there’s no place like home, unless it’s your locally compact Abelian group.

    Slartibartfast: Every point has a neighborhood (that was a math joke

  270. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 7, 2014 at 9:12 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: As they say: there’s no place like home, unless it’s your locally compact Abelian group.

    May your space always be Hausdorff (so you can live in a neighbourhood separate from every birther’s neighbourhood). ;)

  271. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 7, 2014 at 9:30 am #

    Have you read the book? Are you suggesting that I harm Obama every time I mention birthers? Whether the child is harmed or not really depends on how the subject is treated. McGinniss didn’t create Trig birthers.

    Burnell L. Harrison: A child is harmed when a book is published that contains rumors of the legitimacy of his birth.

  272. avatar
    Keith April 7, 2014 at 11:05 am #

    RanTalbott: a lake that’s probably good for swimming and canoeing (and, possibly fishing and ice skating),

    According to McGinniss’ book, the lake is polluted beyond any use other than looking at. No swimming, no boating, no fishing. Skating would probably work as long as you didn’t try eating any of the ice.

    You can read the first chapter of the book by following the link the Doc gives in the article post and following the ‘closer look’ link.

  273. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 7, 2014 at 11:13 am #

    RanTalbott: It may not be _your_ choice, but there are lots of people who strongly _prefer_ a (semi-)rural life.

    Actually we live in the woods with all kinds of wildlife.

    As far as Palin’s property I see Doc has provided some quotes from McGinniss’s book that seem pretty descriptive.

    I have never been down the lane to her house but I have been to the Best Western and up and down Parks Highway a number of times. It’s clear from what I could see and the description in the book that it’s not a bucolic rural “neighborhood”.

    We have family that lives in Palmer that we have visited often over the years.

  274. avatar
    sfjeff April 7, 2014 at 2:09 pm #

    Wow- why I bothered to read through this whole thread is on me but wow.

    So my points- in regards to the parts of the thread that I want to comment on.

    a) I dislike any attacks on politicians children- and on politicians parents, etc- none of them are responsible for the actions of the politician family.
    b) I have never been interested in the Trig issue- none of my business, even if Palin did exploit the issue.
    c) While I might not like it if someone who is writing an investigative book in which I will be a major topic moves in near me- it is a free country for the most part. Clearly from the info provided here, Palin and her supporters lied about this guy spying on Palin- we should all be able to agree that lie was wrong. Moving in next door- even if considered ‘creepy’, is not morally or legally wrong.

    How any of this resulted in a conversation regarding minorities and violence I do not know.

  275. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 7, 2014 at 2:32 pm #

    sfjeff:

    How any of this resulted in a conversation regarding minorities and violence I do not know.

    That was the result of indulging one narcissistic troll; he’s done that to more than a few threads.

  276. avatar
    BillTheCat April 7, 2014 at 3:51 pm #

    The Truth: But if I must, Hillary will never win.

    Please come back and do a victory lap when that happens, I’ll wait here with the popcorn.

  277. avatar
    Majority Will April 7, 2014 at 5:23 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: That was the result of indulging one narcissistic troll; he’s done that to more than a few threads.

    Whiny, defensive, hypocritical, reality challenged and narcissistic trolls with a short attention span are probably real party monsters at the neighborhood barbecue.

  278. avatar
    Crustacean April 7, 2014 at 6:05 pm #

    sfjeff: How any of this resulted in a conversation regarding minorities and violence I do not know.

    Uh… some dummy made a reference to “the knockout game” and all H-E-double-hockey-sticks broke loose. Let’s just leave it at that.

  279. avatar
    American Mzungu April 8, 2014 at 8:30 am #

    Majority Will: Whiny, defensive, hypocritical, reality challenged and narcissistic trolls with a short attention span are probably real party monsters at the neighborhood barbecue.

    You can always get away at a barbecue by getting another beer. It’s the Thanksgiving meal, where you are trapped at the table and forced to endure or fight back against the rants of “Uncle Troll” that is the real social disaster.

  280. avatar
    Majority Will April 8, 2014 at 9:16 am #

    American Mzungu: You can always get away at a barbecue by getting another beer. It’s the Thanksgiving meal, where you are trapped at the table and forced to endure or fight back against the rants of “Uncle Troll” that is the real social disaster.

    And where you might find yourself in the turkey wishbone pull while imagining Uncle Troll quietly vanishing into the cornfield.

  281. avatar
    Dave B. April 11, 2014 at 2:08 pm #

    More military coupkiness:

    “Capt Kent March 28, 2014 at 5:08 AM

    As a seventy year old natural born citizen of the United States of America I must ask, who has the authority to act on this mountain of evidence against Obama and remove him from office? I’ll not dignify him by calling him President.

    Who, what government body and its members are preventing Obama’s dismissal from office? Their inaction and refusal to carry out justice make them complicit in the biggest and most damaging crime against the American people and their constitution to ever befall this country. since its inception.

    This willful crime of treason and its dishonor must end now. Is there among you that one person with the will to step forward and lead the fight, and tell the rest of us what to do to bring Obama down?

    As for me, I believe it is time for our generals and admirals to say no to their fraudulent Commander in Chief. Obama cannot stand against 200 top star rank officers even when he promises to promote their second in command.

    It is time for a concerted military coup that Obama’s chosen cannot stop.”

    http://www.paulstramer.net/2014/03/the-eligibility-issue-that-just-flat.html?showComment=1397239562111#c6332250821894216259

  282. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 11, 2014 at 2:28 pm #

    Dave B.: It is time for a concerted military coup that Obama’s chosen cannot stop.

    Another moment of painful irony. While he rants about the “dishonor” of others he hides behind a phony name on the internet. If “Capt. Kent” had any honor, any guts, he’d stop hiding. But he doesn’t so that’s the end of that thought.

  283. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 2:35 pm #

    Nothing says “patriotism” like calls for a military coup.

  284. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 11, 2014 at 3:21 pm #

    Bonsall Obot:
    Nothing says “patriotism” like calls for a military coup.

    And I suspect the first “patriot” to take one square between the eyes will prompt the rest of them to drop their guns and put their hand on their heads.

  285. avatar
    RanTalbott April 11, 2014 at 3:31 pm #

    Dave B.: It is time for a concerted military coup that Obama’s chosen cannot stop

    I like to point out to these nutbars that they’re talking about OVERTHROWING THE *%&@ING GOVERNMENT based on a story so lame that, if their teenager used something comparable to excuse missing curfew, they’d ground him for an extra week.

    Is a “concerted military coup” one that has various millitary bands playing Sousa marches on stages while the troops lay seige to the WH, the Capitol and the Pentagon?

  286. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 3:46 pm #

    And he wants “200 top star rank officers” to conduct this treason, when there are fewer than 70 three & four star officers in all the services combined.

    A Captain should know this.

  287. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 11, 2014 at 4:33 pm #

    Correction, that should say fewer than 170.