Main Menu

“African” proves birth certificate authentic

Birthers think that Obama’s birth certificate is an obvious forgery. Some of them knew it even before they looked at it. They claim that it was hurried and sloppy, but I argue that it is not.

A hurried, naive or sloppy forger would have done minimal research and selected the value “Negro” for the race of Barack Obama, Sr. The naive and sloppy birthers certainly selected that value and declared it must be the only valid entry.

A specialist in vital statistics like me would have known that this was wrong. Parental races are supplied by the parents, not assigned by the Department of Health. However, someone like me would not have known that in 1962, Kenya, the native country of Obama Sr., used “African” as a standard racial category in its census. Of course, “African” first appeared on Obama’s “short form” in 2008 and was much criticized at that time. That is a hugely obscure fact found in an academic archive (commenter TollandRCR at The Fogbow is the first I know to have reported it in July of 2009). The correct selection of “African” is simply beyond what a hurried, naive or sloppy forger could have done (either in 2008 or 2011).

The second point against the birther forgery theory is the penciled race code next to “African.” A hurried, naive or sloppy forger would have had big trouble getting those codes right. They probably would have assumed (incorrectly) that they were federal codes, but the 1961 federal code sheet was not on the Internet. I had to get it through FOIA and that took some months. The crank crack investigators of the Cold Case Posse couldn’t get that code sheet, and had to make up one that was wrong. But what a forger would be hard pressed to have known was that the codes were actually unique to the State of Hawaii, not federal codes. Indeed, it was not until quite recently that I was able to obtain from the State Library in Hawaii the 1961 Statistical Supplement to the Department of Health Annual Report that lists the code categories. Who could have guessed that Hawaii didn’t even have a race code for negro, and had to use code “9” for “other race” for Obama’s father? It took 3 years to figure out the correct race code to go with “African” using obscure sources not available on the Internet. A hurried, naive or sloppy forger simply could not have gotten it right.

The deeper we dig in any direction, whether into the file format and compression, or into the contextual data on the form, Obama’s birth certificate is recognized as more and more exactly what it should be.

Print Friendly

,

70 Responses to “African” proves birth certificate authentic

  1. avatar
    American Mzungu May 23, 2014 at 7:36 pm #

    YES!!

    For me, equally persuasive was the use of “Kenya, East Africa”. A contemporary forger would have used “Kenya” and left off the “East Africa”. In the late 50’s, early 60’s, “East Africa” as an identifier of political identity was something that a politically active young African like Barack Sr. would have included with “Kenya”. Since then, nationalism has erased “East Africa” as a significant political identity.

  2. avatar
    Curious George May 23, 2014 at 10:26 pm #

    But, but, but the PDF just gots to be a forgery. I can feel it in my bones. Izz just knoz that itz a forgery.

  3. avatar
    RanTalbott May 23, 2014 at 10:34 pm #

    Thanks for revisiting this: I completely missed the posting you did in December.

    A couple of birfers will be unable to sit for weeks after getting spanked with that “births by race” table.

    Were we luckiy enough that they also sent you the “Parents’ occupation” summary?

  4. avatar
    john May 23, 2014 at 10:37 pm #

    So the codes were the same for Negro or African. Negro was used on Hawaii birth certificates – http://www.americanthinker.com/legacy_assets/articles/assets/FigureMP3%20comp.jpg

    The fact that they have the same codes could mean the forger changed the race from Negro to African and no one would been the wiser about the codes.

  5. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2014 at 11:03 pm #

    I don’t understand what you’re trying to communicate.

    The Race is what the parents say it is. Code “9” could be used for a host of races not commonly found in Hawaii, such as American Indian or Eskimo/Aleut.

    Given that every detail about the birth certificate appears genuine, not to mention it being verified by the State of Hawaii multiple times, why are you talking about a forger?

    john: The fact that they have the same codes could mean the forger changed the race from Negro to African and no one would been the wiser about the codes.

  6. avatar
    john May 23, 2014 at 11:19 pm #

    If the race was changed from Negro to African to say be more politically correct, the code numbers would not have changed since Negro and African have the same code.

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2014 at 11:21 pm #

    There were 12 categories summarized for the Occupation of Father. They were, in the order presented (numbers added by me):

    0 No occupation
    1 Professional, technical and kindred workers
    2 Farmers, managers, officials and proprietors
    3 Clerical and kindred workers
    4 Sales workers
    5 Craftsmen, foremen and kindred workers
    6 Operatives and kindred workers
    7 Private household and service workers
    8 Farm laborers and foremen
    9 Laborers, except farm and mines
    R Armed forces
    Not stated

    On Obama’s certificate, both parents were students, coded “0”, and I would match that to the first category, “no occupation.” That works if the coding starts with “0”. I found some other certificates (e.g. Ah’Nee’s mother) with an occupation of “None” also coded “0”. That leaves Armed Forces without a 1-digit numeric code.

    The Alan certificate from 1963 (not necessarily the same codes) has the mother’s occupation as a teacher, coded “1” and matching, I think, the second entry on the list. Alan’s father was in the military and I can’t figure out what his code is–looks to me like an “R”, but I’m not sure. Nordyke was a doctor and coded “1”. The Barstad death certificate from 1959 has the mother’s occupation as “Waitress” coded “7” which aligns with “Private household and service workers”. The Glover certificate from 1960 lists an occupation of “Quarterman” (a foreman in a shipbuilding yard) and codes it “5” which matches the table above. The example John just left is has an industry of “porter service” but the occupation is blanked out, but coded “7”, which makes sense as a “service worker.” The father’s occupation on the Ah’Nee certificate was “Chief Reefer” coded “5”. I think that’s sort of a ship’s engineer.

    RanTalbott: Were we luckiy enough that they also sent you the “Parents’ occupation” summary?

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 23, 2014 at 11:24 pm #

    How is “African” more politically correct, either now or in 1961? Who changed it?

    john: If the race was changed from Negro to African to say be more politically correct, the code numbers would not have changed since Negro and African have the same code.

  9. avatar
    RanTalbott May 23, 2014 at 11:34 pm #

    john: If the race was changed from Negro to African to say be more politically correct

    And if it was changed from “Kryptonian” to “African” to conceal the fact that he was secretly Superman, the OASers should count themselves lucky that his son didn’t roast them alive with his heat vision.

  10. avatar
    Majority Will May 23, 2014 at 11:55 pm #

    john:
    If the race was changed from Negro to African to say be more politically correct, the code numbers would not have changed since Negro and African have the same code.

    *facepalm*

  11. avatar
    Bonsall Obot May 24, 2014 at 12:18 am #

    john:
    If the race was changed from Negro to African to say be more politically correct, the code numbers would not have changed since Negro and African have the same code.

    That’s really stupid.

  12. avatar
    Curious George May 24, 2014 at 12:49 am #

    Hey John, still want to know how much money the CCCP has brought in and how the money was spent. Can you help us?

  13. avatar
    American Mzungu May 24, 2014 at 1:52 am #

    john: The fact that they have the same codes could mean the forger changed the race from Negro to African and no one would been the wiser about the codes.

    But, but…If Negro had appeared, we would know it was a forgery because Obama (Sr.) would not have used that term to describe his own race. We would be the wiser for it.

  14. avatar
    JRC May 24, 2014 at 2:28 am #

    I think what John is trying to say is that if the BC had negro on it, Obama wouldn’t have been elected, so they had to change it aka forge it to African since…..John is a racist and there is no way a negro could be elected in his America.

  15. avatar
    American Mzungu May 24, 2014 at 2:38 am #

    JRC: I think what John is trying to say is that if the BC had negro on it, Obama wouldn’t have been elected, so they had to change it aka forge it to African since…..John is a racist and there is no way a negro could be elected in his America.

    John, is that what you are trying to say?

  16. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) May 24, 2014 at 5:14 am #

    john: Negro was used on Hawaii birth certificates

    Not according to Douglas Vogt because “Negro” clearly is the only word that doesn’t fit the grid superimposed on the picture, therefore, by Vogt logic, it’s a forgery. ;-P

  17. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) May 24, 2014 at 5:16 am #

    American Mzungu: A contemporary forger would have used “Kenya” and left off the “East Africa”.

    Or used “East Africa Protectorate” (as many birthers claimed would be “correct” because “Kenya wasn’t called Kenya until its independence”). Then again, “sloppy forger” might still be miles ahead of “birther forger”, given their utter inability to get *anything* right.

  18. avatar
    American Mzungu May 24, 2014 at 6:59 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in): Or used “East Africa Protectorate” (as many birthers claimed would be “correct” because “Kenya wasn’t called Kenya until its independence”).

    That would have been news to Obama (Sr.).

  19. avatar
    john May 24, 2014 at 8:07 am #

    Actually there may a way to solve this once and for all. There is a lady, i will find her name, who was in the same group as Obama Sr. who went to school. She is still alive today and I believe she has children. if you contact her ask her for her son’s and daughter’s birth certificate, you better hope that her listed race says African.

  20. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 24, 2014 at 8:25 am #

    Was she from Kenya?

    john: She is still alive today and I believe she has children. if you contact her ask her for her son’s and daughter’s birth certificate, you better hope that her listed race says African.

  21. avatar
    Kate May 24, 2014 at 8:29 am #

    American Mzungu: But, but…If Negro had appeared, we would know it was a forgery because Obama (Sr.) would not have used that term to describe his own race.We would be the wiser for it.

    In watching ‘Red Tails’, the movie about the Tuskegee Airmen from WWII, there is a scene where a German fighter pilot, upon realization that the American pilots who just bombed their base are black, says “Oh God, they’re African!” Obviously, they weren’t pilots from Africa, he was referring to their race.

    There’s also a story from Nelson Mandela and it relates to his time in prison where he speaks about being held in segregation with other “Africans” and it clearly states he was referring to other blacks from Africa.

    These are only two instances, in addition to history books, which refer to the black population of Africa as “Africans”. This is how they identified themselves as far as race was concerned. It’s also not the only form that Obama, Sr. filled out and used African in regards to race. I can’t recall the other one at this time but I’m sure there are others who frequent this forum who know what form I’m referring to.

    Because of this, it would be out of the ordinary for Barack Obama, Sr. to identify himself as anything else regarding his race. Negro was not a term that was used in Africa at that time. Since the parents filled out the long form birth certificate, it would be expected that those who were not from the U.S. to use terms commonly used in their country of origin. Birthers can deny this all they wish, but wishing will never make any of their ridiculous conspiracy theories true.

  22. avatar
    Suranis May 24, 2014 at 8:45 am #

    If ‘Negro’ had appeared on the BC John would right now be insisting it was evidence of forgery as everyone knows people from Africa refer to themselves as African.

    And he would be right, oddly enough.

    But since his thought process are “its on the PDF, the pdf is a forgery, therefore it’s evidence of forgery.” we are stuck on this endless loop with our favorite Obot shill.

  23. avatar
    American Mzungu May 24, 2014 at 9:15 am #

    JRC: I think what John is trying to say is that if the BC had negro on it, Obama wouldn’t have been elected, so they had to change it aka forge it to African since…..John is a racist and there is no way a negro could be elected in his America.

    Again…
    John, is that what you were trying to say?

  24. avatar
    American Mzungu May 24, 2014 at 9:29 am #

    Kate: Negro was not a term that was used in Africa at that time.

    The term was well understood, but it was used to refer to black people in the U.S. (and elsewhere in the New World. Obama (Sr.) would never refer to himself as belonging to that group. It was a very strong distinction that Africans students made. It was a social and political blunder to call them Negroes, and they would correct you on that very emphatically.

  25. avatar
    Keith May 24, 2014 at 11:17 am #

    American Mzungu: The Magic M (not logged in): Or used “East Africa Protectorate” (as many birthers claimed would be “correct” because “Kenya wasn’t called Kenya until its independence”).

    That would have been news to Obama (Sr.).

    Yeah, no kidding. I have about a dozen postage stamps labeled “Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika’ with images of both King Edward VI (died 1956) and Queen Elizabeth II (the current Monarch). This would, of course, be impossible if Kenya was unused until independence. Tanganyika is obsolete, for sure. Tanganyika and Zanzibar merged to form Tanzania at independence.

  26. avatar
    American Mzungu May 24, 2014 at 11:55 am #

    Keith: Yeah, no kidding. I have about a dozen postage stamps labeled “Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika’ with images of both King Edward VI (died 1956) and Queen Elizabeth II (the current Monarch). This would, of course, be impossible if Kenya was unused until independence. Tanganyika is obsolete, for sure. Tanganyika and Zanzibar merged to form Tanzania at independence.

    And then there is Zanzibar’s postal history. This is what the Wiki says:

    Any Indian stamps or covers used in Zanzibar between 1854 and 1876 are rare. A post office under Indian administration provided postal services from late 1868 through early 1869. This was re-opened October 1, 1875 as a foreign post office having special relations with the Indian Post Office, and the use of Indian stamps was required.[1][2]

    By treaty in 1862, Great Britain, France and Germany had agreed to respect the independence of Zanzibar. However, in 1890 the Sultanate, including Pemba and a ten-mile wide strip of land along the coast, placed itself under the protection of Great Britain. On November 10, 1895 the post office was transferred to British East African administration. Indian stamps overprinted “Zanzibar” were issued in 1895.[2] In addition to the Zanzibar post office, there were six other post offices on Zanzibar and three offices on Pemba. A French post office operated from January 1889 to July 1904, and a German postal agency operated from August 27 1890 to July 31 1891.[1]

  27. avatar
    Paper May 24, 2014 at 12:17 pm #

    Curious, I think the only remaining logical answer is that your bones are forgeries, don’t you think?

    ;-)

    Curious George:
    But, but, but the PDF just gots to be a forgery.I can feel it in my bones.Izz just knoz that itz a forgery.

  28. avatar
    john May 24, 2014 at 1:18 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Was she from Kenya?

    Yes, she was mentioned by President Obama a couple of years ago. I think she is dead but she has a daughter. Ergo, her daughter’s birth certificate would most likely have her mom’s race on it. It better say “African”.

  29. avatar
    ASK Esq May 24, 2014 at 1:25 pm #

    Keith: Yeah, no kidding. I have about a dozen postage stamps labeled “Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika’ with images of both King Edward VI (died 1956) and Queen Elizabeth II (the current Monarch).

    I have my father-in-law’s stamp album, copyright 1934. And there, between Jugoslavia (Yup, that’s how it appears in the book) and Lagos is Kenya. Sadly, he had no Kenyan stamps, but the book has pictures of the stamps, issued for “Kenya and Uganda.” He didn’t have any from Danzig or Labuan, for that matter. The album is cooler as a geographic history lesson than for the stamps he had.

  30. avatar
    J.D. Sue May 24, 2014 at 2:46 pm #

    john: She is still alive today and I believe she has children. if you contact her ask her for her son’s and daughter’s birth certificate

    —–
    John, You still don’t seem to get it.

    Being a busybody intrusive privacy-violating gossip-mongering pest, is no a virtue.

  31. avatar
    Suranis May 24, 2014 at 3:48 pm #

    OR ELSE!!!

    My my, our little obot shill is being all threaty today.

    john: It better say “African”.

  32. avatar
    Notorial Dissent May 24, 2014 at 6:11 pm #

    More to the point John, unless the lady, or her husband, was from Africa, there is no reason she would have used African on the birth certificate.

    Sometimes you even surpass yourself in dumbness.

  33. avatar
    JRC May 25, 2014 at 1:27 am #

    john: Yes, she was mentioned by President Obama a couple of years ago.I think she is dead but she has a daughter.Ergo, her daughter’s birth certificate would most likely have her mom’s race on it.It better say “African”.

    John…first off it was self reported. So again, you are wrong. It would say whatever she felt described her origins whether it be African, Kenyan, Negro, or any other combination. You really are desperate. I notice you don’t answer the question that another poster posed to you???? Hmmm I believe I did translate what you meant.

    Had to edit to add you using the word “ergo” LOL Your lack of logic make it funny ergo I had to laugh.

  34. avatar
    Thinker May 25, 2014 at 2:35 am #

    I think john has a good point, and I hope President Obama is paying attention to this thread. If john can locate a birth certificate for a random Kenyan person and the race of the parent does not say “African,” then, really, that would be the last straw. As long as there wasn’t a press blackout on the news, Congress would probably begin impeachment hearings over it. This is serious. I think they’ve got POTUS backed into a corner.

    Or not. Maybe President Obama will just take another stroll through Operation American Spring’s base camp, with his jacket slung over his shoulder while he greets giddy, patriotic Americans who aren’t trying to overthrow the f’cking government.

  35. avatar
    American Mzungu May 25, 2014 at 7:35 am #

    JRC: I think what John is trying to say is that if the BC had negro on it, Obama wouldn’t have been elected, so they had to change it aka forge it to African since…..John is a racist and there is no way a negro could be elected in his America.

    John, is this what you are trying to say?

  36. avatar
    Kate May 25, 2014 at 7:54 am #

    American Mzungu: The term was well understood, but it was used to refer to black people in the U.S. (and elsewhere in the New World.Obama (Sr.) would never refer to himself as belonging to that group.It was a very strong distinction that Africans students made.It was a social and political blunder to call them Negroes, and they would correct you on that very emphatically.

    Thanks for clarifying this. I was not aware of Africans referring to blacks outside of Africa as Negroes although when the question is posed, how else would they refer to them? Certainly not as Africans through which they self-identified.

  37. avatar
    American Mzungu May 25, 2014 at 8:31 am #

    Kate: I was not aware of Africans referring to blacks outside of Africa as Negroes although when the question is posed, how else would they refer to them?

    But there is a footnote. There was a current of thought among black intellectuals throughout the world called Pan-Africanism, which attempted to instill a common African identity among all black people. In this view there was a common struggle that unified “Africans” throughout the world. The more common view was that the struggles of black peoples varied depending on context. The struggle of “Africans” in Kenya for independence from colonial rule was different from the struggle of “Negroes” in the United States for civil rights.

    A story. Back in the early 70’s I attended an international track meet at Duke University, including many participants from African countries. There was an active contingent of Africans in the stands, gathered around several drums, which provided a beat throughout the afternoon. Some of the Africans held a large scorecard that was constantly updated to reflect an alternative score to the official scorecard. The unofficial scorecard read: “Africans” and “Non-Africans”. In this scoring, the blacks competing for the U.S. and other countries were included in the “African” numbers. “Africans” won. It was all done in fun, but it did reflect a more serious underlying idea.

  38. avatar
    Rickey May 25, 2014 at 6:04 pm #

    john:
    If the race was changed from Negro to African to say be more politically correct, the code numbers would not have changed since Negro and African have the same code.

    In 1961 there was nothing politically incorrect about the word “negro.” The United Negro College Fund was established in 1944 and advertised regularly on TV in the sixties. It is now generally known as UNCF because many black people dislike the word “negro.” but that was not the case in the sixties.

  39. avatar
    Northland10 May 25, 2014 at 6:54 pm #

    John, what if there were a scenario where somebody born in the USA had a child born in Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe)? What might they put on the line for race? Caucasian, white…

    How about… European ? (I have redacted names and other possible identifiers).

  40. avatar
    sandiegojoe May 26, 2014 at 2:36 am #

    http://www.diffen.com/difference/Ethnicity_vs_Race

    “The traditional definition of race and ethnicity is related to biological and sociological factors respectively. Race refers to a person’s physical appearance, such as skin color, eye color, hair color, bone/jaw structure etc. Ethnicity, on the other hand, relates to cultural factors such as nationality, culture, ancestry, language and beliefs. ”

    May be instructive in the matter.

  41. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) May 26, 2014 at 8:59 am #

    Northland10: How about… European ?

    Probably the Americans said “Caucasian”, then the Rhodesian official said “Where’s that?” and the Americans replied “in Europe”… ;)

  42. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) May 26, 2014 at 9:01 am #

    Rickey: In 1961 there was nothing politically incorrect about the word “negro.”

    I think john again shows his willingness to believe in mutually exclusive theories – he seems to say that a modern forger considered “Negro” to be politically incorrect, yet most of the other stuff he says only makes sense if the document was created in 1961.

  43. avatar
    Rickey May 26, 2014 at 11:14 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in): I think john again shows his willingness to believe in mutually exclusive theories – he seems to say that a modern forger considered “Negro” to be politically incorrect, yet most of the other stuff he says only makes sense if the document was created in 1961.

    As usual, what John actually means is a bit murky. He suggests that the race was changed from “Negro” to “African” because of political correctness. But if the document is a forgery, nothing was changed – it is what it is. So maybe he is saying that there is a real 1961 birth certificate which lists Obama Sr.’s race as Negro and it was changed to African. But that makes no sense either, because no one would have any reason to be offended by a 1961 document which included the word “Negro.” And of course the race of Obama’s father is irrelevant to his NBC status.

    But that’s what happens when a birther is reduced to grasping at straws. He grabs a handful and none of them match up. John still hasn’t come to grips with the fact that no black African would have referred to himself as Negro.

  44. avatar
    American Mzungu May 27, 2014 at 10:38 am #

    Rickey: As usual, what John actually means is a bit murky. He suggests that the race was changed from “Negro” to “African” because of political correctness. But if the document is a forgery, nothing was changed – it is what it is. So maybe he is saying that there is a real 1961 birth certificate which lists Obama Sr.’s race as Negro and it was changed to African. But that makes no sense either, because no one would have any reason to be offended by a 1961 document which included the word “Negro.” And of course the race of Obama’s father is irrelevant to his NBC status.

    John, can you help us out by clarifying exactly what you meant to say?

  45. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG May 27, 2014 at 1:01 pm #

    I think John is trying the “A broken clock is right twice a day” approach. It won’t work. Hawaii’s word on the matter stands.

  46. avatar
    Sef May 27, 2014 at 1:04 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    I think John is trying the “A broken clock is right twice a day” approach. It won’t work. Hawaii’s word on the matter stands.

    Except his clock just continuously flashes “PF”.

  47. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG May 27, 2014 at 1:27 pm #

    Sef: Except his clock just continuously flashes “PF”.

    Worse still, he doesn’t have a clock. It is in fact…a dead squirrel.

  48. avatar
    American Mzungu May 27, 2014 at 3:24 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Worse still, he doesn’t have a clock. It is in fact…a dead squirrel.

    John, please bury the dead squirrel with all due ceremony. Then please tell us why you have this lingering issue with “African” as the appropriate racial identifier for Obama (Sr.). Or have you gotten over this hang-up?

  49. avatar
    Jim May 27, 2014 at 5:40 pm #

    American Mzungu: John, please bury the dead squirrel with all due ceremony.Then please tell us why you have this lingering issue with “African” as the appropriate racial identifier for Obama (Sr.).Or have you gotten over this hang-up?

    He’ll never get over the “African” genetic makeup of the President. :lol:

  50. avatar
    J.D. Sue May 27, 2014 at 5:46 pm #

    Jim: He’ll never get over the “African” genetic makeup of the President.

    —-
    While I think this is true, I really think they can’t stand his parents’ interracial relationship even more.

  51. avatar
    Northland10 May 27, 2014 at 8:58 pm #

    J.D. Sue: —-
    While I think this is true, I really think they can’t stand his parents’ interracial relationship even more.

    ^^^^ Yeah, that.

  52. avatar
    The Magic M May 28, 2014 at 4:43 am #

    J.D. Sue: While I think this is true, I really think they can’t stand his parents’ interracial relationship even more.

    I’ve always said, the only thing a racist hates more than “inferior” races are those “inferior” races mixing with his “superior” one.
    (And misogyny plays a role, too; I’ve never heard white racists spend much time talking about white men sleeping with black women, it’s always white women sleeping with black men that infuriate them.)

  53. avatar
    RanTalbott May 28, 2014 at 5:52 am #

    The Magic M: And misogyny plays a role, too

    That may not be so much misogyny as fear and self-esteem issues. If white women are choosing black men, it means:
    a. There are fewer white women to compete for, and
    b. He’s losing in the evolutionary competition to “inferiors”.

    “b” also implies that he may also be less able to compete with other white males for the remaining white females, while other white males with black females means fewer competitors.

  54. avatar
    American Mzungu May 28, 2014 at 6:28 am #

    …back to you, John.

  55. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG May 28, 2014 at 3:30 pm #

    Oh, John needs a few weeks to come up with a brand new(not really) technically, that will totally throw us all off our game.

  56. avatar
    American Mzungu May 28, 2014 at 6:00 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:.. that will totally throw us all off our game.

    Are we talking about OUR John? :)

  57. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) May 29, 2014 at 4:47 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Oh, John needs a few weeks to come up with a brand new(not really) technically, that will totally throw us all off our game.

    Like TXE, that’ll teach us! *lol*

  58. avatar
    RanTalbott May 29, 2014 at 6:22 am #

    That is a hugely obscure fact and only some very clever Internet researcher (and I am sorry that I do not know who to credit) found it in an obscure location

    Links posted by someone using the handle “Whatever4″ at https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110501094640AACWA7p

    http://www.hist.umn.edu/~rmccaa/IPUMSI/CensusForms/Africa/ke1962ef_kenya_enumeration_forms.en.pdf

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/54152116/AFRICA-A-Z

    I see that the census form URL also appears in one of your postings, which predates Whatever4’s. So he/she might’ve gotten it from you.

    The URL indicates it’s in a personal directory belonging to userid mccaa. Probably a prof at U Minn with a name like “A. McCallister” or “A. McCain”. Try sending an email to mccaa at the school’s domain. It could be the beginning of a beautiful statistical friendship ;-)

  59. avatar
    Whatever4 May 29, 2014 at 10:27 am #

    RanTalbott: Links posted by someone using the handle “Whatever4″ at https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110501094640AACWA7p

    http://www.hist.umn.edu/~rmccaa/IPUMSI/CensusForms/Africa/ke1962ef_kenya_enumeration_forms.en.pdf

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/54152116/AFRICA-A-Z

    I see that the census form URL also appears in one of your postings, which predates Whatever4′s. So he/she might’ve gotten it from you.

    The URL indicates it’s in a personal directory belonging to userid mccaa. Probably a prof at U Minn with a name like “A. McCallister” or “A. McCain”. Try sending an email to mccaa at the school’s domain. It could be the beginning of a beautiful statistical friendship

    Gee, I wonder who that is. ;-)

    I got the census link from Doc, actually. The scribd book was mine though.

    The University of Minnisota hosts the Integrated Public Use Microdata Series, a massive collection of census documents and data from around the world. The census form from Kenya is from that collection.

    https://international.ipums.org/international/

    Census forms http://www.hist.umn.edu/~rmccaa/IPUMSI/

  60. avatar
    Whatever4 May 29, 2014 at 10:32 am #

    Rmccaa is

    Robert McCaa, Professor Emeritus, Department of History
    Ambassador, IPUMS-International
    Minnesota Population Center, 50 Willey Hall
    University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN 55455-0406
    Global cell: 1+952.33.IPUMS (952.334.7867) office: 1+612-624-5818

  61. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 29, 2014 at 10:38 am #

    The earliest reference on the Internet I can find to this item in the context of Obama’s birth is on my site, although I don’t think I discovered it myself. I can’t find it in comment here or in my email archives.

    I searched at the Fogbow, but their first reference to the file was 3 months after mine, by TollandRCR.That person, who doesn’t seem to have gotten the link from me, may be the original source, perhaps left in a comment at some site not indexed by Google.

    RanTalbott: Links posted by someone using the handle “Whatever4″ at

  62. avatar
    American Mzungu May 29, 2014 at 11:02 am #

    I think it was Doc. I think it came up in the “long thread” that went over 1000 posts discussing the use of “African”. I think it’s when I first started posting.

  63. avatar
    Whatever4 May 29, 2014 at 11:11 am #

    The earliest I found was a post from Bovril on Gratewire, May 1, 2011. Then mine on Yahoo Answers on May 17. Maybe on an old page of NBC’s blog that no longer comes up?

    Now I’m intrigued by this minutiae.

  64. avatar
    American Mzungu May 29, 2014 at 11:23 am #

    A long footnote.
    Just because the colonial government established racial categories for the 1962 Kenyan census does not necessarily mean that Obama (Sr) would have self-identified with a colonial originated term. In South Africa at that time, the government used the racial identifier of “Bantu” for most of the African populations. (There were other racial categories for African populations that lived in the area of South Africa before the Bantu-speaking migrations moved in.) Educated Africans rejected the use of “Bantu” and strongly self-identified as “African”. It was the African National Congress, not the Bantu National Congress.
    The 1962 Kenyan census broke down the commonly used “Asian” into “Indian” and “Pakistani” categories. I never heard any of the diverse Asian groups in East Africa self-.identify as “Indians” or “Pakistani”.
    The 1962 Kenyan census also created a separate racial identifier for Somalis. This was all about politics, particularly the “Shifta” movement of Somalis in NE Kenya to break away and join Somalia.
    In fact, educated Africans did embrace the use of “African” as a racial identifier, despite its use by the colonial government.

  65. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 29, 2014 at 11:31 am #

    Looking back AND PAYING ATTENTION to my April, 2009 article, I note that the link was part of Update 2, so it was not part of my original article, and I can’t say when that update was done, but it could have been as late as 2011. So I’m back to TollandRCR’s July 2009 comment at The Fogbow as the earliest confirmed so far.

    http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1680&start=50#p52446

    Whatever4: The earliest I found was a post from Bovril on Gratewire, May 1, 2011. Then mine on Yahoo Answers on May 17. Maybe on an old page of NBC’s blog that no longer comes up?

  66. avatar
    Whatever4 May 29, 2014 at 11:34 am #

    Wait… Tollie’s entry on TheFogbow was from July 28, 2009. Here on OCT, I see the earliest as May 6, 2010 (Charo), then activity in late April 2011 by Bovril. Do you have an earlier mention, Doc?

    Tolland as the source makes total sense as he’s a sociologist in academia.

  67. avatar
    Whatever4 May 29, 2014 at 11:45 am #

    Good lord, I’m bad at the google machine today. I blame the iPad. From doc’s April 2009 article The African Race”:

    Whatever4 October 18, 2009 at 1:08 am #
    I stumbled across the site Obamatrueandfalse.com (which you have in your bookmarks link), and found something on the African Race question that I hadn’t seen before. It’s a page of instructions from the Kenyan 1962 census.

    “Race.- Write European, Arab, Somali, or African, etc. Asians must write Indian or Pakistan.”

    Seems pretty straightforward that Obama Sr. would put African on a form if that was how things were viewed in his home country.

    http://obamatrueandfalse.com/2009/07/30/false-obamas-fathers-race-would-have-been-reported-as-negro-in-1961/

    So I’m gonna posit that Tolland discovered it, OT&F picked it up, I found it there, posted it on OCT, Doc updated his page, and it entered the Obot consciousness in April 2011.

    Sorry for the rambling flurry.

  68. avatar
    Whatever4 May 29, 2014 at 11:53 am #

    Obama True and False created the page July 30, 2009. (They no longer seem active. )

  69. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 29, 2014 at 12:42 pm #

    That seems to work. BTW here is the Wayback Machine link to the Obama: True of False page.

    OTOF has articles going all the way back to August of 2008.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20091008083501/http://obamatrueandfalse.com/2008/08/

    My first verifiable article was from April of 2011.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/04/african-again/

    Whatever4: So I’m gonna posit that Tolland discovered it, OT&F picked it up, I found it there, posted it on OCT, Doc updated his page, and it entered the Obot consciousness in April 2011.

  70. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy May 29, 2014 at 1:00 pm #

    This article has been updated to credit TollandRCR and The Fogbow with finding the Kenyan census enumeration document.

    A little digging at the Wayback machine shows that I added that link to my 2009 article between November of 2010 and April 30, 2012.