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Sheriff Joe’s universe may be shattering

It sucks to be Joe Arpaio this week.

imageFirst there is the Phoenix New Times story today (BANG!) by award-wining journalist Stephen Lemons, that opens up a big can of worms. It begins with some behind-the-scenes comments from Joe Arpaio suggesting that the birther investigation was motivated by fundraising, citing footage from a new film about Arpaio, The Joe Show, The New Times writes:

The most revealing part of Phoenix filmmaker Randy Murray’s recent documentary The Joe Show was a strategy meeting during Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s 2012 re-election campaign that included Arpaio, his top flack, Lisa Allen, Chief Deputy Jerry Sheridan, and campaign manager Chad Willems.

The group huddled in the back of a Fountain Hills restaurant to discuss how to spin Joe’s negatives — the misspending of more than $100 million, the deaths in the jails, the scores of millions in lawsuit payouts — for the public.

At some point, Arpaio’s “birther” investigation came up.  …

At the mere mention of the birther investigation and the future press event, Allen and Willems practically rolled their eyes.

Willems called the birther probe “nuts.”

Allen said the sheriff might as well go the press conference “in big ol’ clown shoes.”
Arpaio shrugged, literally.

“There ain’t gonna be no damage control,” Arpaio promised Willems. “You’ll get more money [in campaign contributions] than you’ll know what to do with.”

imageIt gets worse on that topic (read the New Times article), but we then are given some idea what the Universe-shattering investigation is all about. The Sheriff’s Office confirmed some kind of investigation was in the works, but not about the birth certificate. Informants tell the New Times that the investigation is about Eric Holder and federal judge G. Murray Snow, the one who is overseeing enforcement as a result of a lawsuit proving pervasive racial profiling within Arpaio’s Department. And then there is the Seattle scammer. Sources say that $100,000 has been paid to notorious con man Dennis Montgomery. When asked, both Arpaio and Montgomery declined to deny that they were working together.  You just have to read the thing to believe it.

Next there is the sad story of Maricopa County deputy Ramon Armendariz who appeared to be shaking down undocumented aliens.  He apparently committed suicide by hanging and cannot be questioned as to how widespread the misconduct was within the department, but perhaps these facts have a very different interpretation. Further, 900 hours of videos of traffic stops that were supposed to be turned over to the Court were found in his house. This story was widely reported by the national press. It certainly leaves a lot of questions and I’ll be interested to see how the story plays out.

And if that weren’t enough, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals released its decision on Monday, awarding $975,000 to former Maricopa County Supervisor Mary Rose Wilcox in a lawsuit against Arpaio and other county officials for false arrest and prosecution, bringing the total to over $12 million for those cases.

Finally an investigation has uncovered evidence suggesting that Maricopa County Sheriffs Office personnel and equipment were involved in the production of Jerome Corsi and Mike Zullo’s for-profit eBook, A Question of Law Eligibility: A Law Enforcement Investigation into Barack Obama’s Birth Certificate and his Eligibility to be President. The book, copyrighted by Jerome Corsi and Mike Zullo drew initial criticism as some dollars rolled in to Mike Zullo for what many think should have been the property of the non-profit Cold Case Posse not for Zullo’s personal use. Zullo sidestepped that issue by claiming he gave the money to his church. Now the question is more difficult with County resources involved. This topic led me to review that book, and in the light of what we know now about the Obama birth certificate PDF file, it looks pretty bad. For details on this investigation, check out “MCSO Public Information Officer Brian Lee Helped Write ‘A Question of Eligibility’ eBook” at the RC Radio Blog.

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175 Responses to Sheriff Joe’s universe may be shattering

  1. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 4, 2014 at 10:28 pm #

    Doc,

    I have now read the New Times article three times and it is just mind boggling.

    This is not going to go well for anyone involved.

    Can any lawyer tell us if Judge Snow could (should?) invite the Sheriff to his court to explain what the hell is going on?

  2. avatar
    alg June 4, 2014 at 10:32 pm #

    By the way….here is something else for Sheriff Joe to feel sucky about:

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/arizona/politics/2014/06/02/wilcox-arpaio-payout-lawsuit-abrk/9884143/

  3. avatar
    Bonsall Obot June 4, 2014 at 10:37 pm #

    May was the worst month yet in Birferstan.

    June turns out even worse, just five days in.

    If I was a Birfer, I’d be pretty bummed about now.

  4. avatar
    Joey June 4, 2014 at 10:45 pm #

    I doubt that anyone posting here (except the occasional devotee of the Birther Cult) is surprised by any of these revelations.

  5. avatar
    Keith June 4, 2014 at 11:08 pm #

    Joey:
    I doubt that anyone posting here (except the occasional devotee of the Birther Cult) is surprised by any of these revelations.

    Well, actually, I AM surprised by Arpaio being scammed by the advance fee scammer up in Washington state. The guy is an internationally known con-man, and Arpaio fell for his spiel? Like I said in the other thread, I never thought Joe was THAT stupid.

    But I am not surprised that the flirtation with birtherism was a campaign funding scheme. I made that assertion when it was first announced: 2 prong scheme: get blue-haired constituents back on board and get funds from outside Arizona.

  6. avatar
    Arthur June 4, 2014 at 11:10 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: If I was a Birfer, I’d be pretty bummed about now.

    I just checked in at Birther Report. They are certain that deliverance is just around the river bend.

  7. avatar
    Bonsall Obot June 4, 2014 at 11:12 pm #

    Arthur: I just checked in at Birther Report. They are certain that deliverance is just around the river bend.

    Ah, to be unencumbered by the bonds of rationality.

  8. avatar
    Arthur June 4, 2014 at 11:14 pm #

    Keith: The guy is an internationally known con-man, and Arpaio fell for his spiel? Like I said in the other thread, I never thought Joe was THAT stupid.

    Well, Arpaio grew up and came to maturity well before the development of modern computing. I imagine he could be film-flamed pretty easily in this area.

  9. avatar
    john June 4, 2014 at 11:34 pm #

    Bonsall Obot:
    May was the worst month yet in Birferstan.

    June turns out even worse, just five days in.

    If I was a Birfer, I’d be pretty bummed about now.

    It’s not turning to be a good month for Obama. Aiding the Enemy anyone? Go Figure.

  10. avatar
    Curious George June 4, 2014 at 11:58 pm #

    What goes ’round, comes ’round. Looks like the MCSO needs a good house cleaning from the top down.

  11. avatar
    Notorial Dissent June 5, 2014 at 12:11 am #

    As I pointed out elsewhere, this may also explain el Komandate’s super secret trip to WA, he was there not only to speak to ding a ling vogt, but maybe the scam artist as well, certainly explains a lot more than just that he went to see Vogt, who was already a known fruitcake at the time. Definitely adds a whole new dimension to the great plot and “universe shattering” and all that. If you can’t find any real evidence, manufacture some or get scammed by someone who will claim to do so, or claim to have some.

  12. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 12:22 am #

    Notorial Dissent:
    As I pointed out elsewhere, this may also explain el Komandate’s super secret trip to WA, he was there not only to speak to ding a ling vogt, but maybe the scam artist as well, certainly explains a lot more than just that he went to see Vogt, who was already a known fruitcake at the time. Definitely adds a whole new dimension to the great plot and “universe shattering” and all that. If you can’t find any real evidence, manufacture some or get scammed by someone who will claim to do so, or claim to have some.

    Montgomery lives within about six miles of Vogt’s office (the UPS Store) in Bellevue.

    If Vogt’s involved that would pretty much put the icing on the cake, wouldn’t it?

  13. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 12:27 am #

    Arthur: Well, Arpaio grew up and came to maturity well before the development of modern computing. I imagine he could be film-flamed pretty easily in this area.

    Two seconds and Google spits back some pretty damning stuff. First is his Wikipedia entry:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_L._Montgomery

    Notice where he was born.

    Then this one about a little run in with the law…..

    http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/gibbons-accuser-arrested-california

    If they have hooked up with this guy they deserve whatever happens to them.

  14. avatar
    Benji Franklin June 5, 2014 at 12:38 am #

    Bonsall Obot: Ah, to be unencumbered by the bonds of rationality.

    Fortunately, we are forever protected from realized Birther dreams, by the bounds of prospectivity!

  15. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 12:39 am #

    Curious George:
    What goes ’round, comes ’round. Looks like the MCSO needs a good house cleaning from the top down.

    Easy to say, tough to do.

    Best hope is for a new sheriff after the 2016 election. Then the hope is they get a good one who will clean up the management ranks. The top managers serve at the pleasure of the sheriff and can be removed but they revert back to their civil service rank. And as with most police agencies it is very hard to fire an officer.

    The problems, after 20+ years of Arpaio, are cultural and systemic.

    Frankly I’m not sure how you fix that in any timely manner.

  16. avatar
    Curious George June 5, 2014 at 1:06 am #

    We should expect John and his thread hi-jacking ways any minute now. He can’t resist blocking for a Sheriff Joe crisis.

  17. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG June 5, 2014 at 1:09 am #

    Oh, how ever shall Shurfjoe survive, if he can no longer look grumpy and point his finger for photo ops?

  18. avatar
    James M June 5, 2014 at 2:40 am #

    Hate to say it, but the New Times often prints breathtaking info, and rarely if ever does anything meaningful come of it.

  19. avatar
    Thinker June 5, 2014 at 4:13 am #

    I don’t believe anyone with knowledge of the Washington trip has ever said the purpose was to speak to Vogt. Brian Reilly has always been circumspect about the purpose of the trip, although he said they met with Vogt and with some people who knew the Dunhams when they lived their when Ann was in high school. But his statements about the trip have always made it very clear that he was leaving a lot of things unsaid.

    Notorial Dissent:
    As I pointed out elsewhere, this may also explain el Komandate’s super secret trip to WA, he was there not only to speak to ding a ling vogt, but maybe the scam artist as well, certainly explains a lot more than just that he went to see Vogt, who was already a known fruitcake at the time. Definitely adds a whole new dimension to the great plot and “universe shattering” and all that. If you can’t find any real evidence, manufacture some or get scammed by someone who will claim to do so, or claim to have some.

  20. avatar
    RanTalbott June 5, 2014 at 4:29 am #

    First an investigation has uncovered evidence that Maricopa County Sheriffs Office personnel and equipment were involved in the production of Jerome Corsi and Mike Zullo’s for-profit eBook

    No, it has not.

    After all the first-rate work you’ve put into debunking false claims of “evidence”, and exposing and opposing attacks by innuendo, I’m genuinely shocked to see you make this statement.

    As explained in my long reply at RC’s blog, the presence of Lee’s name in the metadata of a Word file is not “evidence” of anything at all. At most, it might qualify as probable cause for a warrant or subpoena to determine what involvement, if any, Lee had. And it would not surprise me if a real lawyer told me I was mistaken about it having even that much legal weight.

    Even outside the strict confines of legal rules and standards, it’s merely a “clue”, not “proof”.

    It’s disappointing to see people whose opinions and integrity I respect lapsing into the sort of reckless speculation we rightly condemn in birthers. Even if the worst of the speculations eventually turns out to be true, it’s inapprpriate to speak of them as though they were anything other than wishful thinking at this stage of the search for the truth.

  21. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich June 5, 2014 at 5:01 am #

    Arthur: I just checked in at Birther Report. They are certain that deliverance is just around the river bend.

    I emailed the link to the admin of Birther Report. No reply, nothing made public on the site. I also made a big deal of it in Volin’s chat room on BlogTalkRadio. Nothing. They’ve decided that if it comes from an Obot, it will go away if they deliberately ignore it.

    I’m not sure that’s how it works in real life. :D

  22. avatar
    RanTalbott June 5, 2014 at 5:03 am #

    Arthur: I imagine he could be film-flamed pretty easily in this area.

    He certainly talks as though he was, and remains, suckered by Zullo’s “forged PDF” nonsense.

  23. avatar
    bovril June 5, 2014 at 5:07 am #

    More correctly would be

    First an investigation has uncovered INFORMATION that Maricopa County Sheriffs Office personnel and equipment MAY HAVE BEEN involved in the production of Jerome Corsi and Mike Zullo’s for-profit eBook

    Now, whilst in truth the meta data shown (which is not all the information that may be embedded within the document) has value, that value is not as proof but as a pointer to other potential data points.

    So, as an example

    The identity “Brian Lee (leeb001)” this would tend to point to this being a corporate domain logon account. Standard structure used by many organisations who don’t use HR numbers etc.

    File data shows a company name, typically shown as part of a standard corporate install or build

    If RC could show the bottom of the file data there would probably be a computer name which again may shed some light on whether this was an MCSO or personal named device.

    The file name shows as Version 20.0 along with a low edit and opening count so it would tend to support a workflow where this was a close to final review and revision document before it gets sent for conversion to the e-Pub format.

    The question then would be why the MCSO were either performing such work OR providing facilities, personnel, technology or other such support for this document.

  24. avatar
    RanTalbott June 5, 2014 at 5:10 am #

    CarlOrcas: Montgomery lives within about six miles of Vogt’s office (the UPS Store) in Bellevue.

    Hmmm, my local UPS Store has a Xerox 7655. Maybe they had “computer expert” Mongtomery run the Xerox tests Papit was having difficulty with.

    It would be beyond hilarious if it turned out Zullo actually thought the Xerox evidence was “debunked” because one con artist was taken in by phony “results” from another con artist.

  25. avatar
    RanTalbott June 5, 2014 at 5:24 am #

    bovril: The question then would be why the MCSO were either performing such work OR providing facilities, personnel, technology or other such support for this document.

    Doc provided what may be the answer on RC’s blog: the introduction is by Arpaio. If Lee wrote it, or typed it for him, it could be “completely legitimate”, or “naughty, but generally winked at” (like a manager having his secretary pick up his dry cleaning on company time), depending on the rules at MCSO.

  26. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich June 5, 2014 at 5:59 am #

    Ahh … actually, the minions in the trenches have discovered the story, and found it lacking. I know how shocked you must be, that the birthers would dismiss a story like that. :D

    Charles Kerchner says it’s the “latest hit piece from the far left operatives”. RS_1 says it’s “nothing to worry about,” because it’s “over-the-top laughable”. Born Texas says the article has “so many errors and lies it’s difficult to know where to begin.”

    So he never does begin to tell us what they are. :D

    RS_1 then chimes in again to say the article is “stupid silly”. And that, ladies and gents, is the end of the discussion on Birther Report. The article means nothing, and is unworthy of further comment.

    Stephen Lemons (who apparently is running a new blog called Valley Fever) was a guest on R,C. Radio back in the day, when he was running Feathered Bastard. Is there anything else you need to know to understand he’s a far left wackaloon Obot?

    Jeez, I hate far left wackaloon Obots.

    :mrgreen:

  27. avatar
    RanTalbott June 5, 2014 at 6:25 am #

    Comrade Fogovich: the minions in the trenches

    Ah, good: they’re still fooled.

    Boy are they gonna be surprised when they discover the “trenches” are actually FEMA Mass Graves™ ;-)

    Comrade Fogovich: RS_1 says it’s “nothing to worry about,”

    I was really hoping for an “It is of no concern” from “Joe Mannix”.

  28. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich June 5, 2014 at 7:02 am #

    RanTalbott:

    I was really hoping for an “It is of no concern” from “Joe Mannix”.

    Give him time. :mrgreen:

  29. avatar
    Reality Check June 5, 2014 at 7:21 am #

    Doc’s explanation is a possibility I have considered. It would seem odd for Corsi to have cut and pasted the entire rest of the book into a new document though.

    RanTalbott: Doc provided what may be the answer on RC’s blog: the introduction is by Arpaio. If Lee wrote it, or typed it for him, it could be “completely legitimate”, or “naughty, but generally winked at” (like a manager having his secretary pick up his dry cleaning on company time), depending on the rules at MCSO.

  30. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 7:32 am #

    It’s not something I would have ever done as a manager. I certainly wouldn’t label this is “huge” based on what we can reasonably conclude, but I wouldn’t wink at it either.

    RanTalbott: it could be “completely legitimate”, or “naughty, but generally winked at” (like a manager having his secretary pick up his dry cleaning on company time), depending on the rules at MCSO.

  31. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 7:44 am #

    I understand your point and your concern, but I stand by my opening comment. Any fact is evidence, and the metadata is evidence. Further that evidence points in the direction that Brian Lee created the Word document that ended up containing the text of Corsi’s eBook.

    I never the used the word “prove” and I don’t think that what I said should leave anyone with the impression that “proof” was implied by my statement. I myself am persuaded by the “evidence” that Brian Lee did some work on a county equipment (even if it was just a county-owned copy of Word) that ended up in the eBook. I found your alternate scenarios (such as a a pirated copy of Word) at best implausible.

    I have changed to the article to add the word “suggesting” following “evidence,” but I don’t think the additional word actually changes the meaning.

    RanTalbott: No, it has not.

    After all the first-rate work you’ve put into debunking false claims of “evidence”, and exposing and opposing attacks by innuendo, I’m genuinely shocked to see you make this statement.

    As explained in my long reply at RC’s blog, the presence of Lee’s name in the metadata of a Word file is not “evidence” of anything at all. At most, it might qualify as probable cause for a warrant or subpoena to determine what involvement, if any, Lee had. And it would not surprise me if a real lawyer told me I was mistaken about it having even that much legal weight.

    Even outside the strict confines of legal rules and standards, it’s merely a “clue”, not “proof”.

    It’s disappointing to see people whose opinions and integrity I respect lapsing into the sort of reckless speculation we rightly condemn in birthers. Even if the worst of the speculations eventually turns out to be true, it’s inappropriate to speak of them as though they were anything other than wishful thinking at this stage of the search for the truth.

  32. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 7:46 am #

    It’s not a particularly good month for Obama either.

    john: It’s not turning to be a good month for Obama. Aiding the Enemy anyone? Go Figure.

  33. avatar
    john June 5, 2014 at 8:04 am #

    http://www.birtherreport.com/2014/06/real-pow-will-there-be-justice.html

    Jeff Litcher has just written about Terry Lakin. I wonder what Brian Reilly’s opinion is on Terry Lakin? Jeff Litcher and Brian Reilly were members of the same teaparty. I seriously doubt Brian Reilly is friends with Jeff Litcher today.

  34. avatar
    Suranis June 5, 2014 at 8:12 am #

    Yeah, what was Benjamin Netinyahu thinking when he released over a thousand Palestinian terrorists to get back 4 Mossad agents.

    And what was Saint Reagan thinking when he sent Anti-tank Missiles and other advanced weapons to IRAN to get back hostages, which were used against your ally, Iraq, during the Iran Iraq war.

    Good thing they weren’t aiding and abetting the enemy, huh?

    john: It’s not turning to be a good month for Obama.Aiding the Enemy anyone?Go Figure.

  35. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 8:15 am #

    The article has been updated (thanks the tip) to say:

    And if THAT weren’t enough, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals released its decision on Monday, awarding $975,000 to former Maricopa County Supervisor Mary Rose Wilcox in a lawsuit against Arpaio and other county officials for false arrest and prosecution, bringing the total to over $12 million for those cases.

  36. avatar
    Bonsall Obot June 5, 2014 at 8:26 am #

    a racist drive-by troll sez: It’s not turning to be a good month for Obama.Aiding the Enemy anyone?Go Figure.

    And this absurd statement has exactly what to do with the thread topic again?

    Don’t ever change, you moronic little racist.

  37. avatar
    Keith June 5, 2014 at 8:37 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I found your alternate scenarios (such as a a pirated copy of Word) at best implausible.

    Many companies have corporate licenses with Microsoft that let their employees have a home copy of Word. There are no limits on the use of that copy and it is perfectly legitimate. My wife’s copy of Word is just such a license. It is not pirated.

  38. avatar
    Keith June 5, 2014 at 8:43 am #

    john: It’s not turning to be a good month for Obama.Aiding the Enemy anyone?Go Figure.

    Lets see here… I see two possibilities:

    1) the guy has a case to answer for desertion: if so, then great! Now he can answer that charge at a Courts Martial.

    2) the guy has no case to answer for desertion: if so, then great! Now he can return home to the family that clearly loves him.

    In either case, it is better for America that he is in American hands rather than rotting in some Afghan mountain cave.

    Your attitude seems to indicate that you have no respect for American justice let alone common decency.

  39. avatar
    HistorianDude June 5, 2014 at 9:08 am #

    As to the properties on the e-book.

    The “author” of the document is generally assigned at original creation, and is not overwritten as the document is passed around for editing. But it also does not actually tell us about the computer it was created on, but about the information entered during the installation of the software. So, for example, it Zullo had been given an old laptop that had originally been Brian Lee’s (in the same way that the CCP drives old patrol cars purchased from the Sheriff’s office for $.50 a piece) and it carried the Microsoft Office software with it, then it will still show Lee as the Author and the MCSO as the company associated with any document that originated there.

    Bottom line, however, is that there is actually no evidence here that Lee ever touched the document. Only that it was originated on a computer running software that had originally been installed either by or for him at the MCSO.

    Corsi is shown as the last person to have edited the document. But we have no visibility into how many times the document was passed back and forth between Corsi and (presumably) Zullo. Now… the total editing time seems preposterously low, suggesting this is as the workflow:

    1A) The Sheriff’s prologue was either originally written on the “Lee” computer.

    -or-

    1B) A new document was created on the “Lee” computer and Arpaio’s prologue was pasted into it.

    2. The prologue was sent to Corsi.

    3. Corsi spent three minutes cutting and pasting in the rest of the document that had been created on his own machine, but in another file or files.

    I realize that step three is counter-intuitive, since it would make more sense to cut and paste the smaller portion (prologue) into the larger document… unless:

    The e-book existed as individual chapter files on Corsi’s machine and had to be assembled into a final consolidated document. In that case, three minutes of total editing time makes complete sense and records Corsi sequentially appending each subsequent chapter in order onto the prologue sent him by Zullo (or Lee or whomever).

  40. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 9:26 am #

    I think that particular scenario unlikely because Zullo is a day trader and has a big multiple-monitor system available to him. I wouldn’t be editing a document on a laptop when I had a big monitor desktop system available.

    We know that someone took words from Arpaio and put them in the book, and we know that Arpaio himself doesn’t use computers.

    Of course all this can be resolved through a Arizona open records request to the Sheriff’s office. I think that is more appropriate for the news media to do this.

    HistorianDude: So, for example, it Zullo had been given an old laptop that had originally been Brian Lee’s (in the same way that the CCP drives old patrol cars purchased from the Sheriff’s office for $.50 a piece) and it carried the Microsoft Office software with it, then it will still show Lee as the Author and the MCSO as the company associated with any document that originated there.

  41. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 9:35 am #

    I have reordered this article to put the least important (in my opinion) item about the Word document metadata last.

  42. avatar
    Reality Check June 5, 2014 at 10:00 am #

    I agree. Lemons article is significant. I think he cut of the “Universe Shattering News” at the knees.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I have reordered this article to put the least important (in my opinion) item about the Word document metadata last.

  43. avatar
    JPotter June 5, 2014 at 10:08 am #

    While it is great fun seeing the obvious, craven nature of Arpaio’s use of birferism confirmed, and hilarious to see evidence of yet additional follies engaged in by the Wise Fools of the Desert … it’s all SOP in Arpaio’s career.More of the same. My response to any expectation of major political fallout stemming from this is … Any Day Now.

    As for financial fallout, he routinely and successfully spins adverse judgments against his dept as badges of honor, signs that Outsiders are opposed to his tough-on-crime BS … even when these judgment run into the tens of millions. What’s another couple million on the tab?

    Best solution I see would be a Federal takeover of the County, based on massive, systemic civil / constitutional rights violations. There’s precedent for such, but it takes a lot.

  44. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 10:13 am #

    Reality Check:
    I agree. Lemons article is significant. I think he cut of the “Universe Shattering News” at the knees.

    You and Doc are both right. Question now…..how do they proceed?

    If they were smart (yeah, yeah, never mind) they’d just drop it but they still have that $200,000 plus hole to crawl out of.

    Choices are…..go public and let the public see what you have or keep quiet and let the media chatter about what they think you have.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall in Arpaio’s spiffy new office today!

  45. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 10:13 am #

    I personally don’t think Zullo had anything to do with the book, beyond lending his name so that “law enforcement” could be added to the title and perhaps forwarding birther-generated content to Corsi. The pre-production copy doesn’t mention Zullo as an author, nor attributes anything in the book specifically to him.

    HistorianDude: The e-book existed as individual chapter files on Corsi’s machine and had to be assembled into a final consolidated document. In that case, three minutes of total editing time makes complete sense and records Corsi sequentially appending each subsequent chapter in order onto the prologue sent him by Zullo (or Lee or whomever).

  46. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 10:23 am #

    JPotter: Best solution I see would be a Federal takeover of the County, based on massive, systemic civil / constitutional rights violations. There’s precedent for such, but it takes a lot.

    Actually the rest of the county is run pretty well these days so I don’t think that will happen.

    What we may be seeing is another ham handed Arpaio play to insulate himself from outside forces like Judge Snow and the Department of Justice. Don’t be surprised if he makes noises about Snow being removed from Melendres based on the “universe shattering” investigation. Sound familiar?

    And it looks like the story has been picked up by the DailyKos….

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/05/1304501/-Joe-Arpaio-investigates-DOJ-and-the-judge-who-found-him-guilty-of-racial-profiling

  47. avatar
    JPotter June 5, 2014 at 10:42 am #

    CarlOrcas: Actually the rest of the county is run pretty well these days so I don’t think that will happen.

    Sorry, I meant specifically the county sheriff’s office, not the county itself, but I see my typing wasn’t as specific as my thoughts ;)

    That Arpaio is investigating those that investigate him at the federal level is the least surprising revelation here. That’s what Arpaio always does. In his own sandbox, when he had his crony prosecutor, the end was to harrass the target with trumped-up charges. The point of investigating a federal judge … to dig up dirt? Hope for possible blackmail or other petty revenge? There may be no effectual end, just continued exercise of Arpaio’s Nixon complex.

  48. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 10:50 am #

    JPotter: Sorry, I meant specifically the county sheriff’s office, not the county itself, but I see my typing wasn’t as specific as my thoughts ;)

    If Arpaio keeps poking Judge Snow you may get your wish.

  49. avatar
    bgansel9 June 5, 2014 at 11:15 am #

    CarlOrcas: If Arpaio keeps poking Judge Snow you may get your wish.

    And mine!

  50. avatar
    Yoda June 5, 2014 at 11:16 am #

    I think the connection between this and the “Obots” contributing the second investigation is that Zullo was desperate to disprove the Xerox analysis. This is the connection because if Montgomery did, in fact, supply the NSA document which Gallups and Zullo claim proves the Roxy is not the “forger” then once that connection was established it lead to the balance of this nonsense.

  51. avatar
    bgansel9 June 5, 2014 at 11:17 am #

    john: It’s not turning to be a good month for Obama. Aiding the Enemy anyone? Go Figure.

    I won’t fall for your off-topic hijacking of this thread any more than to say that apparently you think America is supposed to leave soldiers behind. Why am I not surprised?

  52. avatar
    wrecking ball June 5, 2014 at 11:20 am #

    john:
    http://www.birtherreport.com/2014/06/real-pow-will-there-be-justice.html

    Jeff Litcher has just written about Terry Lakin.I wonder what Brian Reilly’s opinion is on Terry Lakin?Jeff Litcher and Brian Reilly were members of the same teaparty.I seriously doubt Brian Reilly is friends with Jeff Litcher today.

    squirrel!

  53. avatar
    Yoda June 5, 2014 at 11:25 am #

    bgansel9: I won’t fall for your off-topic hijacking of this thread any more than to say that apparently you think America is supposed to leave soldiers behind. Why am I not surprised?

    John does not think that we should leave soldiers behind. John just hates Obama and blames him for anything and everything he can. If the President personally pulled a person from a burning car, John would blame him for the costing the family medical expenses to treat his injuries. If the President personally cured cancer, John would blame him for costing pharmaceutical companies to lose profits. To paraphrase Lyndon Johnson, if the President walked on water, John would say he could swim.

    John, let’s at least be honest about why you spout what you spout.

  54. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG June 5, 2014 at 11:42 am #

    If this were a room full of people being polled on what restaurant to order lunch from, John would be the guy who starts talking about the poetry of Robert Frost.

  55. avatar
    bgansel9 June 5, 2014 at 11:43 am #

    Yoda: If the President personally pulled a person from a burning car, John would blame him for the costing the family medical expenses to treat his injuries.

    Yes, I can see him doing that.

  56. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG June 5, 2014 at 11:47 am #

    bgansel9: Yes, I can see him doing that.

    I can see him trying to pin the fire on Obama.

  57. avatar
    Curious George June 5, 2014 at 11:50 am #

    Zullo has been reported to have been paid $5,000.00 for his unspecified role in the Dennis Montgomery “investigation.”

    As a volunteer, why is Zullo being paid?

    Is Zullo also considered a “confidential-informant” by the SID (Special Investigations Division) and being paid by the SID for his “information”?

    Does Zullo have a “control number”?

    Has Zullo’s status in the investigation been listed in the confidential informant log with the Special Investigations Division of the MCSO?

    According to pictures of the Cold Case Posse badge, the Cold Case Posse is a part of the MCSO Special Investigations Division. This doesn’t pass the smell test.

    Excerpt from the New Phoenix Times article:

    “The MCSO’s official policy on “informant management” states that control numbers must be maintained in a confidential-informant log “monitored by the [Special Investigations Division] commander or his designee.”

    It further states that all informant files be kept in a “secured area within the SID.”
    The policy notes that the MCSO “will protect these sources through all available and reasonable legal means.”

    Such “informant files” are retained as “permanent records” of SID, “unless the division commander determines that the records may be purged.”

    My sources say Mackiewicz has received, to date, $50,000 in overtime pay and Zullo has gotten about $5,000 in payments.

    Zullo’s role is unclear, though he currently is involved in the investigation, according to these sources, as well as the perpetual birther probe.”

  58. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 12:10 pm #

    Curious George: This doesn’t pass the smell test.

    Nothing about this passes the smell test.

    It will be interesting to see how the Sheriff decides to respond. I assume Lisa Allen is already getting calls.

    But…..no worry….the Sheriff has his priorities straight. His latest press release from yesterday brags about what he’s doing to help inmates in tent city where temperatures are nearing 130 degrees.

    http://www.mcso.org/MultiMedia/PressRelease/Tents%20Heat.pdf

    I wonder how many cooling units the $200,000 he has spent on his latest investigative folly could have bought to deal with this problem.

  59. avatar
    Lupin June 5, 2014 at 12:11 pm #

    I’m pleased to see that the article credits FRENCH intelligence for alerting your Pentagon to the fact that they were being conned by Montgomery.

    Go France!

  60. avatar
    Curious George June 5, 2014 at 12:14 pm #

    Correction. The picture of the Cold Case Posse badge states General Investigations Division, not Special Investigations Division.

    The question remains. Why is a volunteer being paid?

  61. avatar
    DSM June 5, 2014 at 12:17 pm #

    Sometimes I don’t understand the posters at this site. The New Times’ article outing the nature of the Arpaio investigation is hugh and massive. I’ve been waiting for such an article for years. Now everything makes sense.

    Despite this the majority of readers seemed obsessed with trivia concerning Zullow’s expense account and the financial logistics of a meaningless e-book. I just don’t get it.

  62. avatar
    bgansel9 June 5, 2014 at 12:44 pm #

    Curious George: The question remains. Why is a volunteer being paid?

    Even more curious, why is a volunteer being paid for being involved in an investigation that MCSO denies being involved in every time I call and ask them?

  63. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 12:49 pm #

    bgansel9: Even more curious, why is a volunteer being paid for being involved in an investigation that MCSO denies being involved in every time I call and ask them?

    It’s secret. Big secret. Universe shattering secret. Shh!!

  64. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG June 5, 2014 at 12:52 pm #

    CarlOrcas: It’s secret. Big secret. Universe shattering secret. Shh!!

    More secret than the secret string in Patrick’s secret box? I call Shenanigans!

  65. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 12:55 pm #

    bgansel9: Even more curious, why is a volunteer being paid for being involved in an investigation that MCSO denies being involved in every time I call and ask them?

    BTW…..who are you talking to when you call…..Lisa Allen’s office or General Investigations?

  66. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 1:00 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: More secret than the secret string in Patrick’s secret box? I call Shenanigans!

    I confess…..I have never watched SpongeBob SquarePants but from what I just found out with a quick search I’d say we’re dealing with similar levels of professionalism….maybe with the edge going to SpongeBob.

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 1:09 pm #

    This may be partly because I opened the article with the trivial item in its first version. I also found comments focused on the small item, which is why I moved the more important issue (in my opinion) up top. It may also be that the unimportant item was also the most controversial in terms of its accuracy.

    I don’t think most folks here are particularly surprised by anything Sheriff Joe does in the first place, and so things which are important appear as just more of the same.

    One other point is that the point of Joe’s “universe shattering” investigation is based on unnamed sources. So it’s far from established fact at this point.

    DSM: Sometimes I don’t understand the posters at this site. The New Times’ article outing the nature of the Arpaio investigation is hugh and massive. I’ve been waiting for such an article for years. Now everything makes sense.

    Despite this the majority of readers seemed obsessed with trivia concerning Zullow’s expense account and the financial logistics of a meaningless e-book. I just don’t get it.

  68. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 1:10 pm #

    DSM:
    Sometimes I don’t understand the posters at this site. The New Times’ article outing the nature of the Arpaio investigation is hugh and massive. I’ve been waiting for such an article for years. Now everything makes sense.

    Despite this the majority of readers seemed obsessed with trivia concerning Zullow’s expense account and the financial logistics of a meaningless e-book. I just don’t get it.

    Doc has already reordered the original message to reflect just the priority you talk about.

    The possible investigation of a sitting Federal judge is the big story, no doubt about it.

    The others are interesting because they are symptomatic of the crazy that permeates the sheriff’s office.

  69. avatar
    Slartibartfast June 5, 2014 at 1:11 pm #

    I couldn’t not agree with you more strongly regarding the use of metadata—it’s value is in establishing probable cause to investigate further rather than being used as evidence in and of itself.

    bovril:
    More correctly would be

    First an investigation has uncovered INFORMATIONthat Maricopa County Sheriffs Office personnel and equipment MAY HAVE BEEN involved in the production of Jerome Corsi and Mike Zullo’s for-profit eBook

    Now, whilst in truth the meta data shown (which is not all the information that may be embedded within the document) has value, that value is not as proof but as a pointer to other potential data points.

    So, as an example

    The identity “Brian Lee (leeb001)” this would tend to point to this being a corporate domain logon account. Standard structure used by many organisations who don’t use HR numbers etc.

    File data shows a company name, typically shown as part of a standard corporate install or build

    If RC could show the bottom of the file data there would probably be a computer name which again may shed some light on whether this was an MCSO or personal named device.

    The file name shows as Version 20.0along with a low edit and opening count so it would tend to support a workflow where this was a close to final review and revision document before it gets sent for conversion to the e-Pub format.

    The question then would be why the MCSO were either performing such work OR providing facilities, personnel, technology or other such support for this document.

  70. avatar
    bgansel9 June 5, 2014 at 1:16 pm #

    CarlOrcas: BTW…..who are you talking to when you call…..Lisa Allen’s office or General Investigations?

    Non-Emergency number, front desk. As a Maricopa County resident, I want to know what they are telling Maricopa County residents, who pay their expenses.

  71. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 1:21 pm #

    Ask Sarah Palin.

    CarlOrcas: And as with most police agencies it is very hard to fire an officer.

  72. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 1:31 pm #

    Oh my!

    Yoda: This is the connection because if Montgomery did, in fact, supply the NSA document which Gallups and Zullo claim proves the Roxy is not the “forger” then once that connection was established it lead to the balance of this nonsense.

  73. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 1:34 pm #

    bgansel9: Non-Emergency number, front desk.As a Maricopa County resident, I want to know what they are telling Maricopa County residents, who pay their expenses.

    Hard to tell what you’re getting at the front desk (or wherever it is) number. Could be a non-sworn clerk.

    You’re about being entitled to information as a county resident. You would certainly be within your rights to call Allen’s office or General Investigations. It would be interesting to hear what they say….after they stop stammering.

  74. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 1:40 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Oh my!

    The crazier it gets the more sense it makes.

  75. avatar
    JPotter June 5, 2014 at 2:29 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: John would be the guy who starts talking about the poetry of Robert Frost.

    …. giving john wayyyyyy too much credit ….

  76. avatar
    GLaB June 5, 2014 at 2:50 pm #

    DSM:
    The New Times’ article outing the nature of the Arpaio investigation is hugh and massive. ….

    I just don’t get it.

    I’m with DSM in a way. I’m kind of amazed that I may be the only one who sees what I’m seeing.

    It seems obvious to me from that article that Holder is A-Z’s “person of interest,” the guy they’re going to pin the whole thing on. The “forged” LFBC; the “phony” draft registration; the “stolen” social security number; even the “murder” of Fuddy. The judge is just a side issue.

    I’m even more amazed that Birtherville isn’t electrified by this revelation.

    I doubt that this story will slow down A-Z one bit. Arpaio, Zullo, and swindler Montgomery were all cagey but denied nothing. Since when have birthers ever balked at using phony evidence and fraudulent experts? And Arpaio has never let facts get in the way of illegally harassing his political enemies. He can ride this to as many re-elections as he wants; as he said, “there ain’t gonna be no damage control.”

  77. avatar
    Benji Franklin June 5, 2014 at 3:29 pm #

    Lupin: I’m pleased to see that the article credits FRENCH intelligence for alerting your Pentagon to the fact that they were being conned by Montgomery.

    Go France!

    And we thank France for sharing your French intelligence with us on almost a daily basis!

  78. avatar
    DSM June 5, 2014 at 3:33 pm #

    I might be unduly gullible but I am convinced that the New Times’ article absolutely nails it. Most good conspiracies require an “informant” from Jack the Ripper to the Jim Garrison debacle to the October Surprise. When Gallups and Zullow announced “universe shattering ” information I assumed that they were relying on some variety of snitch because it was hard for me to accept that documentation and/or the opinion of some faux expert was sufficient to boost this case into the stratosphere.

    Further, the facts set forth in the New Times’ piece neatly fit the pieces together. The contacts with Montgomery jell with the escalating promises made on Gallups’ international Friday broadcasts; the Zullow pullback on the significance of the birth certificate is consonant with the purported new direction of the investigation; and the participation the 2 deputies has some similarity to the confusing statements released by the PR flack for the Maricopa Sheriff’s Department wherein the powers that be essentially denied that Obama or the birth certificate were being targeted by sworn peace officers. (Absolutely true if Holder and a federal judge were the persons under investigation.)

    Most importantly, Montgomery absolutely fits the profile of an individual capable of swindling even sophisticated persons desperate to have their prejudices and faulty thinking confirmed. I’ve seen up close some of these guys operate as when a scam resulted in the removal of the most pro-prosecution juror in the OJ Simpson case and one cannot underestimate their native cunning and power to inspire.

    I probably differ from quite a few people on this board to the extent that I don’t think Zullow would have made his most recent claims if he had not thought he had something so substantive that the major media would have to report it on the front page above the fold. And Montgomery is just the type of grifter capable of inspiring this type of grandiose thinking. By all appearances Montgomery is an uncommon conman. If i were looking for a contemporary example of the type of game he is playing I would go back and review the facts of the October Surprise referenced above.

    The delay in the Arpaio and Zullow pressers is most likely attributable to the simple fact that second thoughts have arisen as to the credibility of their chief informant. I suspect a division in the Maricopa SO and it remains to been seen which faction comes out on top. The only question is whether Arpaio is so injudicious as to move forward in the manner of a Jim Garrison.

    So yes, I believe that the New Times has absolutely 100% unequivocally revealed the beyond earth shattering information relied upon by Zullow and his pet monkey.

  79. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG June 5, 2014 at 4:17 pm #

    JPotter: …. giving john wayyyyyy too much credit ….

    Fair enough. John would be the guy reciting “Milk, milk, lemonade” or “The diarrhea song”.

  80. avatar
    Bonsall Obot June 5, 2014 at 4:34 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Fair enough. John would be the guy reciting cutting and pasting “Milk, milk, lemonade” or “The diarrhea song”.

    Fixed. No fount of original thought, our john.

  81. avatar
    Thinker June 5, 2014 at 4:52 pm #

    I don’t think sophisticated people are desperate to have their prejudices and faulty thinking confirmed. I think simpletons are that way. I think sophisticated people engage in critical and analytical thinking to understand what’s going on, not to confirm what they think they already know. Montgomery obviously has something about him that makes people believe his ridiculous claims, but his background is now sufficiently well-documented that nobody at all should ever have taken him seriously. Even rubes like Zullo should be able to find and read his wikipedia page.

    DSM: Most importantly, Montgomery absolutely fits the profile of an individual capable of swindling even sophisticated persons desperate to have their prejudices and faulty thinking confirmed.I’ve seen up close some of these guys operate as when a scam resulted in the removal of the most pro-prosecution juror in the OJ Simpson case and one cannot underestimate their native cunning and power to inspire.

  82. avatar
    JPotter June 5, 2014 at 5:11 pm #

    Thinker: Montgomery obviously has something about him that makes people believe his ridiculous claims, but his background is now sufficiently well-documented that nobody at all should ever have taken him seriously. Even rubes like Zullo should be able to find and read his wikipedia page.

    Due diligence escapes the Clown Car Posse again and again!

  83. avatar
    RanTalbott June 5, 2014 at 5:20 pm #

    And, in a wonderful bit of irony, the latest hairball coughed up at Birfoon Report is entitled “Lord Monckton: Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s Obama ID Fraud Investigation Is A Criminal Matter” :lol:

  84. avatar
    aarrgghh June 5, 2014 at 5:23 pm #

    Thinker: I don’t think sophisticated people are desperate to have their prejudices and faulty thinking confirmed. I think simpletons are that way.

    the mark always convinces himself. no matter how smart or sophisticated one is, one’s baser instincts are always just as clever.

  85. avatar
    RanTalbott June 5, 2014 at 6:09 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I have changed to the article to add the word “suggesting” following “evidence,” but I don’t think the additional word actually changes the meaning.

    I think it’s a huge difference, and one of the reasons I value your insights, and respect your opinions, is the care you consistently take in distinguishing “possible” and “probable” from “certain” and “proven”.

    Perhaps I’m linguistically out-of-step, but I believe that “have evidence that”, without a conditional like “suggesting” or saying “evidence that xxx may have done yyy”, is an idiom that implies definite proof. And that failure to maintain the distinction causes a lot of problems.

    E.g., the CCP have “evidence” that Obama’s Selective Service registration may have been forged, in that it differs from what’s assumed to be “normal”. But even a trivial examination shows that it’s not evidence that it was, and the more you look, the clearer it becomes that it’s not even very good evidence for “may have been”. By not stating the condition, Zullo dishonestly implied that his evidence proved more than it actually does, and the eager birfers swallowed it whole without examining it.

    At the first presser, Arpaio was careful to say “We believe probable cause exists” that there “may have been” fraud in the BC. But the birfers seized on that and twisted it (with a lot of help from Zullo and others) into “proven”.

    I think this is part of a widespread problem of people believing in steretypes, false dichotomies, and other “shortcuts” that lead to those answers to complex questions that turn out to be “simple, obvious and wrong”. That’s why I believe it’s important to expose and oppose them, in ourselves as well as others.

  86. avatar
    DSM June 5, 2014 at 6:12 pm #

    Thinker:

    Read the Wikipedia article on Montgomery. This guy operated in pretty rarified circles and appears to be a genius in his chosen area of scamsterism. Only a guess but his profile screams bipolar.

    When you are successfully spooking the spooks and enlisting the backing of prominent junk bond traders and former vice presidential candidates you ain’t no ordinary fella.

    More importantly, his prior antics strongly suggest that he is eminently capable of fabricating emails and sundry other documentation.

    Hugh mistake to not think Mr. Montgomery capable of scamming “sophisticated” people.

  87. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 6:26 pm #

    If the additional word helps, great. I’m all for clarity. I may be the one who is linguistically out of step–my background is in mathematics and computer science which is more logic than nuance.

    RanTalbott: Perhaps I’m linguistically out-of-step, but I believe that “have evidence that”, without a conditional like “suggesting” or saying “evidence that xxx may have done yyy”, is an idiom that implies definite proof. And that failure to maintain the distinction causes a lot of problems.

  88. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 5, 2014 at 6:31 pm #

    I agree.

    What is interesting is what happens next. If Arpaio didn’t know before, he does now that he’s dealing with a scam artist, and Arpaio knows that everybody else will know. So what does he do, and will somebody else investigate Arpaio for misuse of funds?

    DSM: Hugh mistake to not think Mr. Montgomery capable of scamming “sophisticated” people.

  89. avatar
    DSM June 5, 2014 at 6:47 pm #

    One last go on Mr. Montgomery and why I think it a mistake to underestimate him should he step out of the shadows. It is true that his prior cons have been documented by the New York Times and Playboy amongst other publications. But if he takes center stage you better believe he will have documentation supporting his story. He’s quite capable of fabricating same. And he will have a story about how the federal government has unjustly, and unsuccessfully, persecuted him for years because of what he knows.

    Remember there aren’t too many conmen who can brag that the FBI sat in on their deposition. Or searched their house and subsequently got shot down by a federal court. This guy is very much a evil genius and as far as I can tell has never been convicted of anything ressembling fraud.

    He’s going to have a very interesting story to tell and the feds might have a hard time explaining why they never went after him criminally if he truly scammed millions of dollars from the taxpayers.

    This guy is really good. And this story is a long way from concluding.

  90. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich June 5, 2014 at 6:57 pm #

    Fascinating.

  91. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 7:03 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So what does he do, and will somebody else investigate Arpaio for misuse of funds?

    In that regard the responsibility lies with the county…..management and the board of supervisors.

    If this doesn’t get their attention nothing ever will.

    As far as what Arpaio does next it is going to be fascinating to watch. I have been checking Phoenix media on and off all day and the silence – other than the New Times and Arizona Politics – is deafening.

  92. avatar
    Thomas Brown June 5, 2014 at 7:17 pm #

    Comrade Fogovich:
    Fascinating.

    And humbling. All the Obots who ran or tried to run punks on Birthers, myself included, now look like rank amateurs. This Montgomery guy is a pro.

  93. avatar
    Curious George June 5, 2014 at 7:29 pm #

    CarlOrcas: In that regard the responsibility lies with the county…..management and the board of supervisors.

    If this doesn’t get their attention nothing ever will.

    As far as what Arpaio does next it is going to be fascinating to watch. I have been checking Phoenix media on and off all day and the silence – other than the New Times and Arizona Politics – is deafening.

    Crickets……….

  94. avatar
    Bonsall Obot June 5, 2014 at 7:35 pm #

    Thomas Brown: And humbling.All the Obots who ran or tried to run punks on Birthers, myself included, now look like rank amateurs.This Montgomery guy is a pro.

    Any predictions on how long before Birferstan turns on him and names him a known longtime Obots co-conspirator?

    (Mind you, they’ll still insist that anything he “revealed” that “incriminates” anyone in the President’s orbit is gospel, while cutting him loose. See also: Miki Booth.)

  95. avatar
    DSM June 5, 2014 at 7:48 pm #

    The suggestion by some here that Montgomery’s involvement began with the Zerox copy machine is absolutely brilliant.

    Remember this: Zullow was emphatic that the universe shattering evidence arose exclusively from their investigation into proposed Obat solutions explaining the various layers of the birth certificate. And that this investigation reduced the birth certificate to secondary status.

    It now seems probable to me that Montgomery was originally approached to refute the copier issue. But being the consumate conman he convinced the Posse to grant him carte blanche to expand his investigation–and renumeration-in the same way he convinced the federal government to expand his portfolio.

    And of course given his ability to read people he honed in on Arpaio’s hatred for Judge Snow and it was off to the races.

  96. avatar
    JPotter June 5, 2014 at 7:51 pm #

    CarlOrcas: If this doesn’t get their attention nothing ever will.

    Of all the things that have failed to get their attention thus far … this may be the weirdest, but in terms of direct impact on their constituents, this is far from the most alarming. IF this gets the county to turn on Arpaio, it will only because because it was the “final” straw.

  97. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 7:55 pm #

    Curious George: Crickets……….

    Oh….I can guarantee you there’s lots of chirping going on behind closed doors.

    Now lets just see if the crickets have any cojones.

  98. avatar
    Kubu Island June 5, 2014 at 8:06 pm #

    Lupin:
    I’m pleased to see that the article credits FRENCH intelligence for alerting your Pentagon to the fact that they were being conned by Montgomery.

    Go France!

    I bet de Villepin was smiling that day.
    Viva frouze fries

  99. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 8:08 pm #

    JPotter: Of all the things that have failed to get their attention thus far … this may be the weirdest, but in terms of direct impact on their constituents, this is far from the most alarming. IF this gets the county to turn on Arpaio, it will only because because it was the “final” straw.

    And if this isn’t the final straw Maricopa County is doomed.

    If true I can’t imagine it won’t be the end of Arpaio. This one is just too crazy….even for Arizona.

  100. avatar
    Keith June 5, 2014 at 9:31 pm #

    HistorianDude: So, for example, it Zullo had been given an old laptop that had originally been Brian Lee’s (in the same way that the CCP drives old patrol cars purchased from the Sheriff’s office for $.50 a piece) and it carried the Microsoft Office software with it, then it will still show Lee as the Author and the MCSO as the company associated with any document that originated there.

    Except that in such a case, the laptop would be re-imaged before it was recycled. I don’t think that there is any reason to suspect that the MCSO IT department, or the asset management company to whom they contract the responsibility, would be so unprofessional to just hand out laptops that contain possibly sensitive information on it.

  101. avatar
    Keith June 5, 2014 at 9:38 pm #

    Lupin:
    I’m pleased to see that the article credits FRENCH intelligence for alerting your Pentagon to the fact that they were being conned by Montgomery.

    Go France!

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    Remember Fernando Pereira.

  102. avatar
    RanTalbott June 5, 2014 at 10:15 pm #

    Keith: I don’t think that there is any reason to suspect that the MCSO IT department

    I see at least three: Zebest, Papit, and Vogt.

    They allowed their boss and his pet monkey to hang their asses over a Grand Canyon of epic fail without making it clear that the thread by which they’re dangling is the work of three Peter-Principled blowhards who couldn’t “forensically analyze” a printer paper jam.

    Now, maybe the job market in Phoenix is so tight that they didn’t dare tell the Emperor that he not only has no clothes, but has no skin. But, regardless of the reason, I do not “believe probable cause exists” for an assumption of professional behavior. Keep in mind that they’re part of an organization that sells functional police crusiers to private parties for less than the cost of running them through the DIY car wash.

    Said doubt also applying to the multiple lawyers allegedly assigned to the CCP, who, after almost three years, have not managed to ‘splain to the Dumbnamic Duo that a PDF image IS NOT A *#$%ING LEGAL DOCUMENT. After they’re done birfering, we need to get them in a legal cage match with Orly. Perhaps a REEEKO suit over A&Z’s refusal to take time off from their snipe hunt to testify in her snipe hunt. “Five People Enter! No Coherent Thought Leaves!”.

  103. avatar
    Arthur June 5, 2014 at 10:19 pm #

    Sometimes I’m just awful at reading between the lines. For example, I haven’t been able to figure out what this Montgomery fellow is thought to have provided A and Z. Any helpers?

  104. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 10:32 pm #

    Arthur:
    Sometimes I’m just awful at reading between the lines. For example, I haven’t been able to figure out what this Montgomery fellow is thought to have provided A and Z. Any helpers?

    It’s secret.

  105. avatar
    RanTalbott June 5, 2014 at 10:46 pm #

    I don’t think there’s anything between the lines to read yet: we’re all guessing at this point. It seems unlikely that anyone who really knows will say without a subpoena and/or having a lawyer present.

    I suggested that they had hired him because Papit didn’t give them the answer they wanted to the Xerox evidence. Mostly for the joke value, because the New Times people, who’d done some real reporting, were saying his mission was to get dirt on Snow and Holder.

    But the big-ticket equipment spending could’ve included one or more Xerox all-in-ones, and others have suggested that he could’ve started with one mission, then talked Arpaio into adding the other, so maybe there was more truth to my joke than I realized.

  106. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 5, 2014 at 10:54 pm #

    Arthur:
    Sometimes I’m just awful at reading between the lines. For example, I haven’t been able to figure out what this Montgomery fellow is thought to have provided A and Z. Any helpers?

    Seriously, Arthur……the guy is a con artist….a modern day Wizard of Oz…probably the second oldest profession.

    You want evidence that a federal judge is out to get some sheriff in Arizona? Standby while I step behind the curtain!!

    Time will tell but my guts tell me it will be even more bizarre than we imagine right now.

  107. avatar
    Arthur June 5, 2014 at 11:00 pm #

    Thanks Ran and Carl for your input. I was afraid I had missed something, but it appears that it’s still a developing story–as they say in the newsroom.

  108. avatar
    Curious George June 5, 2014 at 11:36 pm #

    Here’s a thought. Maybe A & Z know M is a scammer and they were going forward with that knowledge. The Scammer gets fees for being a confidential informant and A & Z come forward with another looney scenario that saves their bacon with the tea party folks and A &Zs donations increase as they walk away saying “We’ve done everything we could do.” This of course is just speculation. But, stranger things have happened.

  109. avatar
    bgansel9 June 5, 2014 at 11:43 pm #

    A few days ago I went in to throw my route and fully expected to see Mary Rose Wilcox’s face plastered across the front of the newspaper and was quite perplexed when I didn’t. After all she IS running for Congress, so I think this was big news that she won her case against Arpaio. Imagine my surprise when I didn’t see that. It does surely seem as if Arpaio has someone protecting him at the paper.

  110. avatar
    bgansel9 June 5, 2014 at 11:47 pm #

    The two things that I take from that info on the Fountain Hills meeting are:

    1: Joe knows that he has a lot of negatives (something I would never have imagined, I thought he was living in denial)
    2. Joe admits he’s grifting from the birthers.

  111. avatar
    Egipcios June 6, 2014 at 12:19 am #

    bgansel9: Imagine my surprise when I didn’t see that. It does surely seem as if Arpaio has someone protecting him at the paper.

    You are not likely to see this story surface in major media in AZ. The two web sites that have carried it so far are deep fringe, and are not taken seriously. It will only surface in AZ after it becomes a national story, which is unlikely to happen, given the parameters.

  112. avatar
    RanTalbott June 6, 2014 at 1:41 am #

    Egipcios: which is unlikely to happen, given the parameters.

    Oh, I think “America’s Toughest Sheriff Suckered by Con Man” has enough “Man Bites Dog” in it to have a shot at going national. It could easily be eclipsed by a mass-casualty catastrophe like a swarm of tornados or an airliner crash, but it could also easily swell to fill the vacuum of a slow news day.

    “America’s Toughest Sheriff Indicted on Conspiracy Charges” might do it, too, if the worst of the theoretical possibilities suggested by the still-way-too-limited information turn out to be true.

    But, at the very least, we can look forward to some interesting snippets on upcoming Free Dumb Fridays. Carl’s call screener will definitely be getting another baptism. Of fire, this time :lol:

  113. avatar
    Egipcios June 6, 2014 at 2:28 am #

    RanTalbott: enough “Man Bites Dog” in it to have a shot at going national

    I hope you are right. But even the national media whom you think would know better continue to suck up to this guy. Even the most “liberal” msm outlets inevitably repeat the meme ‘America’s Toughest Sheriff” when they present him, rather than “America’s Most Racist Sheriff”.

    And the Arizona media are simply terrified.

  114. avatar
    Dave B. June 6, 2014 at 2:33 am #

    Speaking of Arpaio’s universe, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away…
    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009/09/arpaios_trips_to_space_arizona.php

  115. avatar
    bgansel9 June 6, 2014 at 4:09 am #

    Back in January, I did deliver a headline regarding the 44 million that Arpaio’s actions were costing the county taxpayers. Not sure why that one wasn’t suppressed.

  116. avatar
    interestedbystander June 6, 2014 at 5:07 am #

    DSM – I think you’ve nailed it. The story fits all the known factoids and has an essential air of truthiness to it. It’s too delicious for words.

  117. avatar
    jtmunkus June 6, 2014 at 5:53 am #

    One wonders if Geezer Joe and his minions are actually investigating Holder and Judge Snow, or if they just think they are investigating them (per Montgomery scam).

    And, the end game of the – evidently – Montgomery Universe Shattering Evidence Scam, is a big, giant, press conference.

    But it will be extra sweet to find out that Arpaio threw away a likely easy ride to the governorship after being upsold to the big money con by a sleazy, racist car salesman playing to his hatred of the black president.

  118. avatar
    RanTalbott June 6, 2014 at 6:07 am #

    jtmunkus: And, the end game of the – evidently – Montgomery Universe Shattering Evidence Scam, is a big, giant, press conference.

    Aha! It’s all perfectly clear now: the reason the feds haven’t nailed Montgomery is that he’s an Ostapo operative, assigned to lure Arpaio into a trap by feeding him embarrassingly-fake evydunce.

    Oh, damn: we’ve just blown their covert psyop. Okay, everybody scatter. But don’t use the secret escape routes: Soros will be pissed, and have DARPA killbots covering them…

  119. avatar
    bovril June 6, 2014 at 6:19 am #

    Based on Arpaio’s previous track record, “iinvestigating” his enemies is not just par for the course but practically mandatory for him and as long as the seemingly inevitable punishment are fines and sanctions that Maricopa County pay, he’ll continue with a, to him, winning strategy.

    (Rant on)

    The real problem, to my mind, is the infantalisation and incredibly short term focus of the US news media. In the pursuit of the ever elusive and shrinking paying punter demographic the media focuses on celebrity, inanity and anything that will get a quick fix of watching eyeballs.

    They have no stamina and as such pander to a lazy and unengaged audience whose attention span is less than that of a brain damaged fruit fly.

    So long as the Shurrif gives “good quote” and a nice little bread and circuses spectacle now and again, then the press will continue to pander to him and he will never get the in depth, hard hitting investigation of his many, multiple, mean and manifest wrong do-ings.

    It’s simply too much like hard work, too potentially speculative, would cost too much money with no gurantees of a fast and cheap return and in America’s insanely litigious society too “risky”

    (Rant off)

  120. avatar
    roxy7655 June 6, 2014 at 9:31 am #

    Come to think of it, I was told a few months ago that someone had shown up at the White House asking to see me personally. Or would that be device-ally? Anyway, it may have actually been Montgomery.

    Security told whoever it was to FOAD.

  121. avatar
    Patriot35 June 6, 2014 at 12:37 pm #

    This still doesn’t explain everyone’s willingness to accept the TREASON that is Obama/Soetoro/AKA??? as their legitimate ‘President’ and CINC.

    What kind of idiot would legitimize such an unknown anti-American Muslim usurper using forged ID’s (Certif. of Birth and Selective Service Registration) and a self-published stolen SS # 042-68-4425 that fails E-Verify (making him ineligible for employment in the U.S., never mind the Executive branch of Government)?

    That IDIOT would have to be a Traitor him or herself!

    TREASON!

    It is an act of TREASON for an unknown entity to usurp the Office of President of the United States using proven-to-be forged ID’s (Certificate of Birth & Selective Service Registration) and a self-published SS# 042-68-4425 that fails the government’s own E-Verify and SS# Verification systems for employment in the United States.

    Paying homage to and legitimization of that unknown and undocumented entity who uses forged and stolen identification documents, by calling him ‘The President’, is to be knowingly complicit in that act of TREASON!

    Therefore anyone who calls that undocumented entity ‘President’ becomes him or herself a Treasonous Co-Conspirator! (www.TinyURL.com/TreasonousCo-Conspirators).

  122. avatar
    Rickey June 6, 2014 at 12:43 pm #

    bgansel9:
    A few days ago I went in to throw my route and fully expected to see Mary Rose Wilcox’s face plastered across the front of the newspaper and was quite perplexed when I didn’t. After all she IS running for Congress, so I think this was big news that she won her case against Arpaio. Imagine my surprise when I didn’t see that. It does surely seem as if Arpaio has someone protecting him at the paper.

    A blogger at the New Times website says that Arpaio’s son-in-law, Phil Boas, is the editorial page editor at the Arizona Republic.

  123. avatar
    Sef June 6, 2014 at 12:55 pm #

    Oh goody, another sock puppet (“Patriot (sic) 35″),

  124. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 6, 2014 at 12:58 pm #

    Rickey: A blogger at the New Times website says that Arpaio’s son-in-law, Phil Boas, is the editorial page editor at the Arizona Republic.

    I have no idea whether that is true or not but a quick search fails to produce another mention of it.

  125. avatar
    aarrgghh June 6, 2014 at 1:03 pm #

    our nation’s throne
    he did usurp
    treason argle
    bargle derp
    burma shave

  126. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 6, 2014 at 1:06 pm #

    If you had spent any time on this web site, you’d know that the charge of “forged IDs” and stolen social-security numbers is complete nonsense. You might believe it, but the fantasies of a bunch of incompetent conspiracy theorists is not how we make policy in the United States.

    Patriot35: This still doesn’t explain everyone’s willingness to accept the TREASON that is Obama/Soetoro/AKA??? as their legitimate ‘President’ and CINC.

  127. avatar
    Bonsall Obot June 6, 2014 at 1:06 pm #

    an ironically named troll said:

    ZOMG TREASON!!!!

    You should tell someone, about the treason.

  128. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 6, 2014 at 1:08 pm #

    Patriot35: This still doesn’t explain everyone’s willingness to accept the TREASON that is Obama/Soetoro/AKA??? as their legitimate ‘President’ and CINC.

    It’s simple. He sends me money whenever I need it. All I have to do is call George (Soros) and it’s loaded right on my EBT card along with my food stamps, welfare, etc. It’s pretty cool.

  129. avatar
    Slartibartfast June 6, 2014 at 1:14 pm #

    I’m curious, why do you think that the black helicopters haven’t come to rendition you to one of the many fine FEMA camps to be waterboarded until you accept President Obama as your messiah? Is it because you pose absolutely no threat to the evil usurper or because you are a complete loon? I’m just asking questions…

    Patriot35: This still doesn’t explain everyone’s willingness to accept the TREASON that is Obama/Soetoro/AKA??? as their legitimate ‘President’ and CINC.

  130. avatar
    Sef June 6, 2014 at 1:19 pm #

    Slartibartfast:
    I’m curious, why do you think that the black helicopters haven’t come to rendition you to one of the many fine FEMA camps to be waterboarded until you accept President Obama as your messiah?Is it because you pose absolutely no threat to the evil usurper or because you are a complete loon?I’m just asking questions…

    His mother’s basement has no windows, so they cannot find him.

  131. avatar
    Slartibartfast June 6, 2014 at 1:24 pm #

    Curses! Foiled again!

    Sef: His mother’s basement has no windows, so they cannot find him.

  132. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 6, 2014 at 1:44 pm #

    Boaz was the Republic editorial Page editor, according to Politico, in 2007:

    To the Phoenix paper, it’s not just about winning this war. “We believe we are in a generational struggle with radical Islam,” said Republic editorial page editor Phil Boaz. “It’s not just a regional conflict.”

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0707/5181.html

    I found this in Yahoo Groups, with an ambiguous date:

    “Land and Jacks lived in Mesa, Arizona for 8 months. The son-in-law of Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, Phil Boaz, as editor of the MESA TRIBUNE sent a battery of reporters to investigate them.”

    I don’t quite know what the “Mesa Tribune” is unless it is the East Valley Tribune, whose editor is Kelly Mixer.

    Here is a 2010 comment on Facebook:

    “Ma`am, I have had it with the Arizona Republic News Paper .. past 3 sundays now they print lies and misinformation .. read page b9 .. I even spoke too Phil Boaz this past week one of the editor”

    There is no mention of Boaz today on the Arizona Republic (AZCentral.com) web site.

    CarlOrcas: I have no idea whether that is true or not but a quick search fails to produce another mention of it.

  133. avatar
    Rickey June 6, 2014 at 1:59 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I have no idea whether that is true or not but a quick search fails to produce another mention of it.

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2009/05/joe_arpaio_brags_about_relatio.php

  134. avatar
    Rickey June 6, 2014 at 2:00 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    There is no mention of Boaz today on the Arizona Republic (AZCentral.com) web site.

    That’s because his last name is spelled Boas, not Boaz.

    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/newsroomphone/byname.php

  135. avatar
    JPotter June 6, 2014 at 2:02 pm #

    Patriot35: (www.TinyURL.com/TreasonousCo-Conspirators).

    Oh myyyyyyy, what an interwebs faux pas LOL

  136. avatar
    Rickey June 6, 2014 at 2:04 pm #

    Patriot35:

    Therefore anyone who calls that undocumented entity ‘President’ becomes him or herself a Treasonous Co-Conspirator! (www.TinyURL.com/TreasonousCo-Conspirators).

    I’ll bite:

    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama

    Now come and get me.

  137. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 6, 2014 at 2:05 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I don’t quite know what the “Mesa Tribune” is unless it is the East Valley Tribune…………….

    Yes that’s it…..a really top notch daily many years ago when it was owned by Cox and eventually Freedom which scooped it up with other east valley papers….hence the eventual name. It emerged from Freedom’s bankruptcy as a throwaway weekly with a mediocre website.

    It did win a Pulitzer for its 2008 reporting on Arpaio. It’s still available at their website: http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/special_reports/reasonable_doubt/

    I did find Phillip Boas on the Rep’s staff director listed as the Editorial Page Editor but it took me forever to find it because their site is so crappy…..
    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/staff/index.php

  138. avatar
    Sef June 6, 2014 at 2:07 pm #

    Rickey: I’ll bite:

    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama
    President Barack H. Obama

    Now come and get me.

    +10

  139. avatar
    Arthur June 6, 2014 at 2:20 pm #

    Patriot35: Therefore anyone who calls that undocumented entity ‘President’ becomes him or herself a Treasonous Co-Conspirator!

    Thank you, Patriot, for sharing your thoughts. I’m certain your post will be read and discussed. Also, I appreciate your use of exclamations, all caps, and quotation marks, as they help me to grasp how passionate you are on this topic.

  140. avatar
    Yoda June 6, 2014 at 2:45 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Thanks!

    We will also point and laugh.

    As the CCP “investigation” continues to implode, more emphasis will be placed on St. deVattel.

  141. avatar
    Keith June 6, 2014 at 8:41 pm #

    RanTalbott: I see at least three: Zebest, Papit, and Vogt.

    Nothing in your rant has anything to do with the guys sitting in some cramped office somewhere managing the IT assets. They don’t have any business advising the Sheriff about anything. They get a work order: ‘Joe Bloggs needs a computer’ and they get Joe Bloggs a computer. Every computer that they give to somebody will have been reimaged – meaning the disk is wiped and rebuilt – before it goes out.

    This task is probably even contracted out to some third party organization, there are dozens of them in Australia, there are probably hundreds in the USA, that do exactly this kind of asset management stuff as their core business so the Sheriff can spend its time Sheriffing not asset managing.

  142. avatar
    Keith June 6, 2014 at 8:58 pm #

    Keith: This task is probably even contracted out to some third party organization, there are dozens of them in Australia, there are probably hundreds in the USA, that do exactly this kind of asset management stuff as their core business so the Sheriff can spend its time Sheriffing not asset managing.

    Sorry… I had to go put the washing into my solar powered clothes dryer (which has been running on reverse cycle all night) – I’ll just finish that thought.

    The leasing companies have asset management groups that do that asset management stuff. If the MCSO is buying its laptops, not leasing them, then there is another area where Arpaio is wasting the county taxpayer’s tax dollar. Most of the ‘big’ consultant groups like IBM Global Services, KPMG, Accenture, etc, etc, etc, will roll asset management up into any services contract.

    Bottom line is that unless Arpaio said ‘Lee, give Zullo your laptop right now, we’ll get you another one tomorrow – no I don’t care if there is any sensitive investigation notes stuff on there – just give it to him now’ there is no way that Zullo got a dirty machine.

    Yes, we all believe that Arpaio is incompetent and enough to do something stupid like that, but one cannot assume that everyone in the MCSO is that incompetent and unprofessional. Even if asset management is in-house – which they may justify because of the sensitive nature of the information that is likely to be on those assets – it is totally unfair to assume that those individuals trusted with that task don’t take their job seriously.

  143. avatar
    Thomas Brown June 6, 2014 at 10:45 pm #

    Patriot35, believing the President is a Muslim usurper with forged documents is 110% iron-clad slam-dunk PROOF that you are a kid-toucher. Now that that’s been irrefutably proven, you should confess your sins to your spiritual pastor and you are now required to turn yourself in to your local police.

    Don’t bother denying it. You’re a pedophile. Case closed.

    Hey… thinking like a Birfer pseudo-patriot is easy and fun!

  144. avatar
    Suranis June 6, 2014 at 10:59 pm #

    To Patriot35,

    Hi John.

  145. avatar
    Northland10 June 7, 2014 at 8:02 pm #

    Patriot35: This still doesn’t explain everyone’s willingness to accept the TREASON that is Obama/Soetoro/AKA??? as their legitimate ‘President’ and CINC.

    So how did your formal complaints naming the President in commission of treason work out? Still waiting for your FOAD letter from FBI and the grand jury in your area? Maybe if you write TREASON more often, it would help.

  146. avatar
    Suranis June 7, 2014 at 9:17 pm #

    Treason must be in capital letters too.

  147. avatar
    RanTalbott June 8, 2014 at 1:18 am #

    Suranis: Treason must be in capital letters too.

    And the death penalty is doubled for every exclamation point you put after it.

  148. avatar
    Curious George June 8, 2014 at 11:44 am #

    John March 3, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

    “Most of all what Dc C. produces is just a distraction and attack on the Sheriff Arpaio’s investigation……. FogBow, John Woodman and Doc C. are simply not credible entities for very simple reason that they are not established official, legal and recognizable investigative bodies. They simply don’t have the resources and official connections as well complete privy to details of Arpaio’s investigation to make any vaild and meritful claims.”

    John, the only investigative resources and connections that Arpaio and Zullo had was WND, Dr. Jerome Corsi and a plethora of Corsi’s wild and crazy Birther zealots and questionable Birther “experts” . This “investigation” has been a money making proposition. (You know that as an insider.) And, since March 3, 2012, we’ve seen your credible “investigation” evolve into the current “universe shattering” farce that it is today.

    By stating your own claims, one could infer that you believe your claims are “vaild” (sic) and “meritful” (sic), and would indicate that you are “privy” to the inner workings of the Cold Case Posse. You imply that the Cold Case Posse has “official connections” and they have “resources.” The Cold Case Posse has squeezed tens of thousands of dollars from the Birther faithful. Are those contribution dollars the “resources” that you mention, or are the resources that you refer to the fictional type found in detective mysteries and comic books?

    Doc. C’s, blog along with the other Birther theory debunkers that you have mentioned have exhibited far more credibility and accuracy to date than the Cold Case Posse. You, as a posse insider and defender, know that the Cold Case Posse is a sinking ship, with all hands on board. Will you hang on and sink along with the rest?

    John, before you don your Coast Guard approved water floatation device, please tell us how much money the Cold Case Posse has raised on this fiasco?

    One final comment. Your posts, since 2012, have been a total distraction from the truth. That’s a great legacy, isn’t it John?

  149. avatar
    Bonsall Obot June 8, 2014 at 11:53 am #

    Poor john; all his racist fantasies are slipping away.

  150. avatar
    wrecking ball June 8, 2014 at 12:34 pm #

    Suranis:
    To Patriot35,

    Hi John.

    the kids at birther report are turning on john…:

    “And those of us who have agreed with you in the past, can wipe your traitorous posts from our memory. God speed.”

    -DixT

    “Jimmy “down the hall” Youngblood [ john ] has never been anything other than an Obot. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that it’s another of Dr. Con’s IDs.”

    -Cassandra Hocutt

  151. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG June 8, 2014 at 12:47 pm #

    I do so love when birthers devour one of their own.

  152. avatar
    Joey June 8, 2014 at 1:20 pm #

    John/Patriot35 has forgotten that it would be Attorney General Eric Holder who would investigate a treason charge, unless the Attorney General shipped the investigation out to one of the 93 U.S. Attorneys, who are all Obama appointees, confirmed by the Senate.

    And speaking of Senate confirmations, Barack Obama has now had 262 federal judges confirmed and 90 of those Obama judges were confirmed UNANIMOUSLY.
    So if calling Barack Hussein Obama, II “president” is “treason,” what crime is a U.S. Senator committing who votes to confirm an Obama judge to a lifetime appointment?

  153. avatar
    Thinker June 8, 2014 at 1:29 pm #

    Why do people think Patriot35 is john? Why would he post here under a different name, especially since his real name is well-known? And john’s posts tend to be bizarre, illogical explanations for things in the birthersphere. He doesn’t tend to just rant the way Patriot35 has. Not every nonsensical troll is john. There are lots of random trolls out there who come by once and never return.

  154. avatar
    Curious George June 8, 2014 at 1:30 pm #

    ““Jimmy “down the hall” Youngblood [ john ] has never been anything other than an Obot. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that it’s another of Dr. Con’s IDs.”

    -Cassandra Hocutt

    I would be surprised if C.H. isn’t another Cold Case Posse shill (insider) promoting the Cold Case Posse charade. You go girl!

  155. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 8, 2014 at 1:34 pm #

    Poor guy is getting “Mikied.”

    Curious George: ““Jimmy “down the hall” Youngblood [ john ] has never been anything other than an Obot. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that it’s another of Dr. Con’s IDs.”

    -Cassandra Hocutt

  156. avatar
    wrecking ball June 8, 2014 at 1:55 pm #

    Thinker:
    Why do people think Patriot35 is john?

    i have no evidence that they are the same. i just saw the mention of john at the same time i saw the comments at birther report and used the opportunity to share.

  157. avatar
    Thinker June 8, 2014 at 2:02 pm #

    Ah. Thanks for the explanation.

    wrecking ball: i have no evidence that they are the same. i just saw the mention of john at the same time i saw the comments at birther report and used the opportunity to share.

  158. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 8, 2014 at 3:29 pm #

    His “problem,” and I say this is all seriousness, is that he spent too much time here outside of the birther echo chamber.

    Curious George: ““Jimmy “down the hall” Youngblood [ john ] has never been anything other than an Obot. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that it’s another of Dr. Con’s IDs.”

  159. avatar
    Curious George June 8, 2014 at 3:37 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Poor guy is getting “Mikied.”

    They are cannibals who eat their own if their “friend” questions the group think of the moment. They truly are like a “Jim Jones’ cult.” Watch out for their Kool-Aide. :-(

  160. avatar
    wrecking ball June 8, 2014 at 6:39 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Poor guy is getting “Mikied.”

    it looks like rudy is too.

  161. avatar
    Bonsall Obot June 8, 2014 at 7:02 pm #

    wrecking ball: it looks like rudy is too.

    Poor Rudy; if ever ScottKB and birdboy had a natural ally, it’s Rudy. If not for Vogt’s scurrilous accusation, they could all

  162. avatar
    Bonsall Obot June 8, 2014 at 7:03 pm #

    wrecking ball: it looks like rudy is too.

    Poor Rudy; if ever ScottKB and birdboy had a natural ally, it’s Rudy. If not for Vogt’s scurrilous accusation, they could all get together and make each other happy in myriad ways.

  163. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG June 8, 2014 at 8:36 pm #

    At this rate, BR’s comment section will be down to Falcon and the admin screeching about how they are the only two “real” birthers in the entire country, that the whole birther movement rests on them.

  164. avatar
    RanTalbott June 8, 2014 at 8:59 pm #

    Then Gallups will go off on another rant about how “birthers” and “certain birther sites” are nothing but useless parasites, leeching of the Noble Quest of Jefe d’Oro Zullo to prove that Doc used Sup3r S3kr1t NSA Spy Tr1x to make the all-fake-handmade-127000%-phony PDF look like it was an ordinary scan from an ordinary scanner. And how they should be ashamed, because if it weren’t for Integalactic Command Zullo, we would all have been fooled into thinking Obama is legit.

    If we’re lucky, it’ll be the birfer version of Sarajevo, and we’ll get to watch them do some serious trench e-warfare.

  165. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 8, 2014 at 9:06 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    At this rate, BR’s comment section will be down to Falcon and the admin screeching about how they are the only two “real” birthers in the entire country, that the whole birther movement rests on them.

    BR is beginning to remind me of a couple of babies in a play pen who’ve discovered the joy of smearing poop all over the place.

  166. avatar
    Dave June 8, 2014 at 9:33 pm #

    John has never gotten much respect over at BR (and I’m assuming, though I’m not certain, that Jim Youngblood and John are the same guy). It’s always been the same pattern — however silly his comments may be, they are way smarter than most over there, and the mouth-breathers can’t stand it.

  167. avatar
    BillTheCat June 8, 2014 at 11:02 pm #

    CarlOrcas: BR is beginning to remind me of a couple of babies in a play pen who’ve discovered the joy of smearing poop all over the place.

    Beginning? That ship sailed for me lonnnng ago, lol.

  168. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG June 8, 2014 at 11:20 pm #

    CarlOrcas: BR is beginning to remind me of a couple of babies in a play pen who’ve discovered the joy of smearing poop all over the place.

    Oh, that was several full room coats ago.

  169. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 10, 2014 at 8:18 am #

    Interestingly, Lemons’ article says that Sheriff Joe started working with Montgomery in October of 2013. The very next appearance by Mike Zullo on the Carl Gallups Freedom Friday show, November 22, is where the “Universe Shattering” story originated. Here’s the November 22, 2013, entry from the CCP timeline at RC Radio:

    Carl Gallups interviewed Mike Zullo on his Freedom Friday show. Among other claims, Zullo said that the Maricopa Sheriff’s Dept. was now “deeply involved” with the CCP investigation, and that “they are “working closely together as one team.” Zullo said that he couldn’t provide any specific details, but he asserted that the “whole notion of the Xerox 7655 is out the window,” and they will “annihilate it when the time comes.” Meanwhile, Gallups alluded to a new twist in the CCP investigation and that his listeners should be “patient and prayerful” because “the evidence is mounting up; it’s overwhelming–and it’s not just about the birth certificate.” According to Gallups, the investigation has gone “deeper and darker” than they ever imagined, and that the evidence is “earth shattering, history making . . .potentially.” Zullo added that while he doesn’t know when his new information can be made public, he predicted that when it is released, “it will be universe shattering” and that Gallups will be able to “take this show and play it in the future” as proof he made such a prediction.

  170. avatar
    Reality Check June 10, 2014 at 9:11 am #

    That is a great find. The timing is certainly interesting.

    Dr. Conspiracy: terestingly, Lemons’ article says that Sheriff Joe started working with Montgomery in October of 2013. The very next appearance by Mike Zullo on the Carl Gallups Freedom Friday show, November 22, is where the “Universe Shattering” story originated. Here’s the November 22, 2013, entry from the CCP timeline at RC Radio:

  171. avatar
    The Magic M June 10, 2014 at 9:37 am #

    And it would explain why they were so exaggeratingly optimistic. While I never put it past them to just have made it all up to buy them some more time, them having been conned by a third party makes more sense in hindsight. Because I somehow doubt the flow of donations was enough motivation to just keep the scam going. And it would fit my previous belief that Zullo was more of a true believer than just a scam artist (though he may be both).

  172. avatar
    Benji Franklin June 10, 2014 at 2:25 pm #

    The Magic M: And it would explain why they were so exaggeratingly optimistic. While I never put it past them to just have made it all up to buy them some more time, them having been conned by a third party makes more sense in hindsight.

    I think that much of what HAS and has NOT happened with the CCP “investigation” can also be explained just by the rabid political right wing strategized tactic of making outrageous, unproven claims as loudly as possible hoping that something will “turn up”, a real or lying “witness” to something illegal or embarrassing, someone you can call a “whistle blower” – a sort of lone-wolf character assassin who you can fund, reward, and get behind as supporters, to keep your smear campaign going. Even when nothing turns up, you keep it alive, hoping with enough time, SOMETHING, that can be scandalized, will.

    Thus we have Gallups trying to stretch out the game by saying that the worst crime in history, now has been dwarfed by their discovery of something “darker”. With many of the Birthers, that could easily include someone who just has darker skin.

  173. avatar
    Rickey June 10, 2014 at 2:50 pm #

    The Magic M:
    And it would explain why they were so exaggeratingly optimistic. While I never put it past them to just have made it all up to buy them some more time, them having been conned by a third party makes more sense in hindsight. Because I somehow doubt the flow of donations was enough motivation to just keep the scam going. And it would fit my previous belief that Zullo was more of a true believer than just a scam artist (though he may be both).

    I agree. Montgomery gets involved with Arpaio in October, and Zullo obviously plays some part in it because he announces to Gallups in November that there is a new investigation underway which is “not just about the birth certificate.” In February Zullo tells Gallups that two detectives are involved in the new criminal investigation and in the meantime promises have been made that universe-shattering revelations will be announced in March.

    So what happened to waylay the March announcement? Lemons gives a likely hint when he reports that “at least one underling told Arpaio recently that what Montgomery provided the MCSO is worthless, that Joe is getting played — which caused the sheriff to erupt into a fit of anger.” Arpaio may we have erupted in a fit of anger, but when he calmed down he probably decided to take a closer look at Montgomery, and when he did he learned that Montgomery cannot be taken seriously.

    RC reported the following in regard to Zullo’s May 24 appearances on Gallup’s radio show: “Zullo admitted the March deadline was missed. He seemed to pin the cancellation of the March release on Sheriff Aprio himself.”

    My guess is that Arpaio called off the “universe-shattering” announcement when he learned the truth about Montgomery.

    That strikes me as a plausible theory based upon what we know at the moment.

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