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Counting Obots

Thanks to a commenter here for pointing me to a comment at Birther Report by a commenter named Rhodalicious. It’s the quote of the day now, and a longer version of this despairing remark about inactivity from the Cold Case Posse appears in the Quote Archives.

These days it can be hard to tell whether a commenter at a birther site is a birther being outrageous, or someone imitating a birther being outrageous, so I took a moment to look at the Intense Debate profile for Rhodalicious to get a sense of where they are coming from. I rather liked this one:

In about 5 billion years the Sun is going to run low on fuel. At that point, it will expand to become a "red giant" star, and its diameter will exceed the orbit of Earth, meaning that the Earth will be incinerated.

I’m hoping that Sheriff Arpaio and Mike Zullo will see fit to release their evidence at least a few years before then.

I found a pattern of frustration about the Cold Case Posse’s inaction, but I found something else more interesting: There is a screen shot from a profile page, I presume from The Fogbow, showing the number of users on the site. I won’t reproduce it here, but you can view it from the Intense Debate link. Someone had said, How many of them [Obots] are left these days — 6 or 8? The comment’s reply was that The Fogbow had more than 8000 posts in June and on the day he checked there were 1,247 users online in a 24-hour period. Rhodalicious notes that at least one person online (and I recognized others) was a birther.

98 Responses to Counting Obots

  1. avatar
    Bob July 3, 2014 at 12:35 pm #

    A comment she made on BR the other day gave me a laugh:

    “They said the press conference to release the universe-shattering evidence would be in late March.

    Today is March 124th, but we’ve already won, simply by proclaiming our victory. Hooray.

    Sheriff Arpaio makes media appearance after appearance where he never mentions the FRAUD, but we’ve already won because we say so.”

    . . .

    ☞ LINK

  2. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich July 3, 2014 at 7:23 pm #

    I don’t get the title of the post. Are we counting Rhodalicious as an Obot?

    I’ve read some of her posts and I can’t tell for sure one way or the other. She sure has a way with words, I’ll give her that much. Maybe she’s too smart to be a birther.

    Things that make ya go “Hmm.”

  3. avatar
    Arthur July 3, 2014 at 8:07 pm #

    Comrade Fogovich: ’ve read some of her posts and I can’t tell for sure one way or the other.

    She was a strident supporter of Operation American Spring, and claims to have attended the event:

    “We’re in the campground, ready for the most exciting and important day of our lives tomorrow. I’ll try to find Mike Volin and give him a report. Get ready to leave town, Obama!”

  4. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 3, 2014 at 8:16 pm #

    Comrade Fogovich:
    I don’t get the title of the post. Are we counting Rhodalicious as an Obot?

    I’ve read some of her posts and I can’t tell for sure one way or the other. She sure has a way with words, I’ll give her that much. Maybe she’s too smart to be a birther.

    Things that make ya go “Hmm.”

    I’d say that the birthers are. But then again, anyone who speaks against the sainted A&Z is clearly an Obot. ;)

  5. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich July 3, 2014 at 8:26 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG… anyone who speaks against the sainted A&Z is clearly an Obot.

    Not true at all anymore. Lots of birthers have given up on A&Z now. That’s why it’s so hard to tell if she’s a birther or not.

  6. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 3, 2014 at 9:30 pm #

    The point was that Rhodalicious was counting Obots. The Fogbow item is a data point of historical note.

    But Poe’s law is in full effect at Birther Report. Actually, since Rhodalicious hasn’t called me “Dr. Crunt,” their birther creds are pretty weak. (I finally looked that up.)

    Comrade Fogovich: I don’t get the title of the post. Are we counting Rhodalicious as an Obot?

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 3, 2014 at 9:32 pm #

    That’s rather literate for a birther.

    Arthur: “We’re in the campground, ready for the most exciting and important day of our lives tomorrow. I’ll try to find Mike Volin and give him a report. Get ready to leave town, Obama!”

  8. avatar
    Arthur July 3, 2014 at 10:10 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That’s rather literate for a birther.

    And quite literate for someone who supports American Spring. Guess, she could be an Obot, but so far, no one at Birther Report has called her one. To me, her long history of anti-Obama comments on Intense Debate seem heartfelt and not a put-on.

  9. avatar
    Thinker July 3, 2014 at 10:37 pm #

    I’m not at all on the fence about Rhodalicious. She’s way too smart to be a birther.

  10. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 4, 2014 at 1:30 am #

    Comrade Fogovich: Not true at all anymore. Lots of birthers have given up on A&Z now. That’s why it’s so hard to tell if she’s a birther or not.

    Might explain the ramp up in stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with eligibility as of late, as far as BR headlines go. Meanwhile, A&Z are probably trying to figure out where they can find a few dozen or so Bruce Steadmans of their own, because their regular crop of suckers aren’t paying up anymore.

  11. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 4, 2014 at 1:50 am #

    I suspect Pat Boone, at least, serves as a Steadman for A&Z. No idea if they have more fish like him on the line.

  12. avatar
    The European July 4, 2014 at 12:17 pm #

    Thinker:
    I’m not at all on the fence about Rhodalicious. She’s way too smart to be a birther.

    It´s a long time that we heard of Squeeky …

  13. avatar
    Greatkim July 4, 2014 at 1:36 pm #

    Obots have won the same war twice and their man is in the White House. Why beat a dead horse ?

  14. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 4, 2014 at 1:56 pm #

    Greatkim:
    Obots have won the same war twice and their man is in the White House. Why beat a dead horse ?

    So you’re going to stop lying about the President and encourage other Birfers to do the same?

    Glad to hear it. Enjoy the holiday.

  15. avatar
    Greatkim July 4, 2014 at 2:02 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: So you’re going to stop lying about the President and encourage other Birfers to do the same?

    Glad to hear it. Enjoy the holiday.

    huh ?!!!???

  16. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 4, 2014 at 2:16 pm #

    What you call beating a dead horse, we call refuting the lies of Birfers. As long as they keep lying, we keep refuting. It’s not up to the Obots to stop first. Get it?

  17. avatar
    Joey July 4, 2014 at 2:51 pm #

    Greatkim:
    Obots have won the same war twice and their man is in the White House. Why beat a dead horse ?

    “Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.”
    Obots have to keep watching out for the birthers who haven’t stopped beating the dead horse in spite of the president being reelected. The birthers are going for impeachment or resignation from office, so its important to counter their claims, even this late in the second term.
    “A lie told often enough becomes the truth.”–Vladimir I. Lenin.

  18. avatar
    Joey July 4, 2014 at 3:07 pm #

    I should add that the more insane birthers want the president tried for treason, convicted and executed. As an Obot, I think its still important to counter that point of view, regardless of how extreme it is.
    There are too many historical examples of where a small, radical group eventually wreaked havoc on entire civilizations. (e.g.). Fascists, Nazis, Bolsheviks).

  19. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich July 4, 2014 at 4:49 pm #

    Umm, greatkim is an Obot and has been since ’08. Read what he wrote again, por favor.

    He was just suggesting that we lay off the birthers, because we won long ago.

  20. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 4, 2014 at 4:56 pm #

    I read it; if he’s an Obot, he expressed himself extremely poorly.

    He asked “(w)hy beat a dead horse ?” Immediately prior to that, he referred to one group and one group only: Obots. Twice. (Once using a pronoun.)

    I’m not doubting in retrospect that Greatkim meant well; but what he wrote suggests that Obots should unilaterally lay off the seditionists who are STILL trying to delegitimize the President. And that’s not going to happen. You of all people should know that.

  21. avatar
    Arthur July 4, 2014 at 5:26 pm #

    Comrade Fogovich: He was just suggesting that we lay off the birthers, because we won long ago.

    Yes, Obama was re-elected, but I think we won the battle and lost the war. From what I’ve observed, the viciousness and irrationality of the birthers have increasingly found their way into the sentiments of the Tea Party and even mainstream Republicans. In November, there’s a real possibility that Republicans will control the House and Senate, the toxicity of American politics will increase, and the political center will stagger more and more to the right.

  22. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 4, 2014 at 5:31 pm #

    Arthur: In November, there’s a real possibility that Republicans will control the House and Senate…

    … and a right-wing Supreme Court is repeatedly making decisions designed to ensure this, and gerrymandering thwarts the will of the people, and all because too many people aren’t willing to call out the liars.

  23. avatar
    Arthur July 4, 2014 at 5:50 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: and all because too many people aren’t willing to call out the liars.

    One of the most admirable things that John McCain did during the 08 election was to stand up to Republican voters and defend Obama against scurrilous lies:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llef8ZRTWQo

    Six years later, it would unimaginable for a Republican to do such a thing. Indeed, as I recall, Mitt Romny, that righteous man of God (“I will not take God out of the name of our platform. I will not take God off our coins and I will not take God out of my heart”) flirted with the lie of birtherism.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/08/obama-campaign-jumps-on-romney-birther-flirt/

  24. avatar
    bgansel9 July 4, 2014 at 6:52 pm #

    Arthur: “We’re in the campground, ready for the most exciting and important day of our lives tomorrow. I’ll try to find Mike Volin and give him a report. Get ready to leave town, Obama!”

    Yeah, that worked out really well, didn’t it? LOL

  25. avatar
    Arthur July 4, 2014 at 7:07 pm #

    bgansel9: Yeah, that worked out really well, didn’t it?

    It’s the thought that counts!

  26. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich July 4, 2014 at 9:05 pm #

    Rhodalicious and Falcon are fighting. He ordered her to leave Birther Report. “Pack your [stuff] and get out.” She’s standing up to him. I guess you know who I’m rooting for!

    My favorite line by Falcon was when he said of me, “He’s a bag of vomit”. My sons and I laughed so hard when I told them that one!

  27. avatar
    Arthur July 4, 2014 at 9:19 pm #

    Comrade Fogovich: Rhodalicious and Falcon are fighting.

    Falcon had figured it all out:

    FALCON★
    Does everyone know by now that Rhodalicious is Faggy. Has it sunk in yet.

  28. avatar
    Suranis July 4, 2014 at 10:20 pm #

    I think Falcon just assumes that anyone that dares stand up to his fat cowardly ass must by Foggy. It’s a good default insult that lets him dismiss anyone that wont be bullied. Plus he has foggy on the brain, poor dear.

  29. avatar
    Suranis July 4, 2014 at 10:23 pm #

    Plus it would mean that Foggy is STILL able to post on BR despite their high tech security measures, which means that Falc is accusing the mod at BR of biewng a total incompetent.

  30. avatar
    Steve July 4, 2014 at 10:48 pm #

    Arthur: One of the most admirable things that John McCain did during the 08 election was to stand up to Republican voters and defend Obama against scurrilous lies:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llef8ZRTWQo

    While I respect McCain for what he did here, sometimes I wonder if it hurt him in the election.

  31. avatar
    Arthur July 4, 2014 at 11:02 pm #

    Steve: While I respect McCain for what he did here, sometimes I wonder if it hurt him in the election.

    I don’t know . . . I tend to think voters like that need to be told they’re wrong in a straightforward and uncompromising way. Otherwise, their lunacy takes root and grows.

  32. avatar
    Steve July 5, 2014 at 12:21 am #

    Arthur: I don’t know . . . I tend to think voters like that need to be told they’re wrong in a straightforward and uncompromising way. Otherwise, their lunacy takes root and grows.

    The thing is, no matter how crazy, stupid or misinformed that woman was, that was a vote that McCain may have lost and he may have lost votes from other like-minded voters.
    How many of them stayed home on election day after seeing that clip?
    There is a school of thought that the problem with the Republican Party is not that it’s too nutty, but that it’s not nutty enough.
    Voters tend to be more fired up about a Ron Paul type than a John McCain or Mitt Romney.

  33. avatar
    RanTalbott July 5, 2014 at 12:57 am #

    Steve: While I respect McCain for what he did here, sometimes I wonder if it hurt him in the election.

    I’m sure it did, albeit probably only a tiny amount, because it probably also got out some votes from people who had despaired of seeing that sort of behavior from the GOP.

    I’d like to think he did that knowing it would hurt, because he believed it was the right thing to do. He used to be that kind of guy, and he was the last Republican I voted for: I made an exception for him after Tom DeLay got me to swear off voting GOP.

    It’s too bad he lost that. He could’ve been one of the people to lead the party back to sanity.

    Steve: Voters tend to be more fired up about a Ron Paul type than a John McCain or Mitt Romney.

    Yeah, but there are fewer of them who do. While the area under the curve helps with things like attracting GOTV volunteers, there’s only one axis that gets measured on election day: if you haven’t got the breadth of appeal, having lots of depth merely encourages you to waste your time on a losing campaign.

  34. avatar
    The European July 5, 2014 at 4:32 am #

    RanTalbott: I’m sure it did, albeit probably only a tiny amount, because it probably also got out some votes from people who had despaired of seeing that sort of behavior from the GOP.

    I’d like to think he did that knowing it would hurt, because he believed it was the right thing to do. He used to be that kind of guy, and he was the last Republican I voted for: I made an exception for him after Tom DeLay got me to swear off voting GOP.

    It’s too bad he lost that. He could’ve been one of the people to lead the party back to sanity.

    Yeah, but there are fewer of them who do. While the area under the curve helps with things like attracting GOTV volunteers, there’s only one axis that gets measured on election day: if you haven’t got the breadth of appeal, having lots of depth merely encourages you to waste your time on a losing campaign.

    As a European I am really not too happy with BHO´s politics. I repeat myself when I call his Middle-East politics a trainwreck.

    OTOH, a Pres. McCain with Sen. Graham as his consigliere would have been a disaster.

    And another thought: you should always prefer a poker player over a craps man.

  35. avatar
    Lupin July 5, 2014 at 5:22 am #

    The European: As a European I am really not too happy with BHO´s politics. I repeat myself when I call his Middle-East politics a trainwreck.

    As a European, I, too, are extremely unhappy about BHO/US Government economic, foreign & surveillance policies. Some of it, I will admit, genuine yet arguable ideological differences; in some areas, I do believe the US is not only wrong but egregiously immoral. But this not the proper forum to discuss this.

    It is ironic that we’re grouped with “Obots” by Birthers of all kinds when we actually are not that much in favor of Obama, although I will gladly acknowledge that the Republican opposition seems comprised of dangerous lunatics capable of destroying the planet, so Obama does seem the best choice.

    In effect the Republicans have succeeded in making the US a one-party system since the Dems are the only reasonable option left, no matter how much one disagrees with them. No matter who runs against Hillary, she is bound to be the only sane choice.

  36. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich July 5, 2014 at 6:56 am #

    Steve: While I respect McCain for what he did here, sometimes I wonder if it hurt him in the election.

    Think how much more it would have hurt him if he had blurted out, “That’s right, ma’am. He’s a Muslim.” Even if he didn’t go full RWNJ and start talking about “he hates America” or “he’s a terrorist” or “Muslim Brotherhood” or whatever, he’d have been a laughingstock for the entire rest of the campaign.

    Maybe his decency gene kicked in. If so, it hasn’t kicked in much since that day.

  37. avatar
    RanTalbott July 5, 2014 at 8:31 am #

    Lupin: In effect the Republicans have succeeded in making the US a one-party system since the Dems are the only reasonable option left,

    Alas, no. Consider, just from the last century: WWI; the 1920s stock market bubble; the Nazis; the Iraq War; the 2000s housing bubble.

    History is full of examples of large numbers of people, sometimes even majorities, soundly rejecting “the only reasonable option”.

    Despite their succession of monumental screw-ups, the GOP are likely to gain seats in the leigslature this year.

    Unfortunately, we’re still a ways away from “reasonable” returning as a major factor in our decision-making process.

  38. avatar
    Notorial Dissent July 5, 2014 at 10:06 am #

    Steve: While I respect McCain for what he did here, sometimes I wonder if it hurt him in the election.

    Once upon a time I had a great deal of respect for John McCain. He seemed to be a genuine and honest man trying to do his honorable best at what he was doing.

    That lasted right up to the point where he let the Republican Central Committee foist the trailer trash from AK on him and stuck him with that awful platform and agenda they did, and he let them. My feeling to this day is that between the trailer trash and her followers and what they represented those who would have voted for him from both parties turned their backs on him when they saw that he had not stick to his principles. I think he knew he’d sold out his principles and you could see it in him after the convention, he wasn’t the same man after the convention, and you can still see it in him to this day. At least that is my perception of it.

    [blockquote=”European”]And another thought: you should always prefer a poker player over a craps man.[/blockquote]
    I couldn’t agree more, chess wouldn’t hurt either, but definitely poker.

  39. avatar
    Notorial Dissent July 5, 2014 at 10:11 am #

    Steve: While I respect McCain for what he did here, sometimes I wonder if it hurt him in the election.

    Once upon a time I had a great deal of respect for John McCain. He seemed to be a genuine and honest man trying to do his honorable best at what he was doing.

    That lasted right up to the point where he let the Republican Central Committee foist the trailer trash from AK on him and stuck him with that awful platform and agenda they did, and he let them. My feeling to this day is that between the trailer trash and her followers and what they represented those who would have voted for him from both parties turned their backs on him when they saw that he had not stuck to his principles. I think he knew he’d sold out his principles and you could see it in him after the convention, he wasn’t the same man after the convention, and you can still see it in him to this day. At least that is my perception of it.

    The European: And another thought: you should always prefer a poker player over a craps man.

    I couldn’t agree more, chess wouldn’t hurt either, but definitely poker.

  40. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 5, 2014 at 12:31 pm #

    The book “Game Change” has an inside look at the selection of Sarah Palin as McCain’s running mate. McCain’s pick was Joe Lieberman, but at the last minute he realized that it couldn’t work. The decision to try Palin was made August 24 and the vetting was superficial and rushed — just 5 days, “less investigation than a potential assistant secretary of agriculture would receive.” Palin herself misled them on questions they didn’t have to research.The decision was McCain’s and not something thrust on him.

    The most important decision of McCain’s campaign was squarely in his hands, and the circumstances could hardly have been odder or more telling. Unlike Obama and his methodical process , McCain was flying by the seat of his pants. He had left himself no time and no other options; if he went with Pawlenty or any conventional pick, he believed that he would lose. Yet, in judging Palin, he was relying on a vetting so hasty and haphazard it barely merited the name. No one had interviewed her husband. No one had spoken to her political enemies . No vetters had descended upon Alaska. There had been almost no follow-up on any issues that the investigation had raised. Palin’s life still was a mystery to McCainworld. …

    But although McCain didn’t know much about Palin, what he knew, he liked. She reminded him a lot of himself: the outsider’s courage, the willingness to piss all over her party.

    Heilemann, John; Halperin, Mark (2010-02-09). Game Change: Obama and the Clintons, McCain and Palin, and the Race of a Lifetime (pp. 363-364). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.

    It didn’t take them long to realize they had erred badly.

    Notorial Dissent: That lasted right up to the point where he let the Republican Central Committee foist the trailer trash from AK on him and stuck him with that awful platform and agenda they did,

  41. avatar
    The European July 5, 2014 at 1:04 pm #

    It didn’t take them long to realize they had erred badly.

    That´s what I said – McCain behaved like the craps player that he is.

  42. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 5, 2014 at 1:06 pm #

    In generic Congressional polling for the 2014 race, Democrats are slightly ahead:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/generic_congressional_vote-2170.html

    It looks like Democrats may pick up 0-3 seats in the House with the Senate numbers unchanged.

    Of course things can change.

    RanTalbott: Despite their succession of monumental screw-ups, the GOP are likely to gain seats in the leigslature this year.

  43. avatar
    Joey July 5, 2014 at 1:15 pm #

    The European: As a European I am really not too happy with BHO´s politics. I repeat myself when I call his Middle-East politics a trainwreck.

    OTOH, a Pres. McCain with Sen. Graham as his consiglierewould have been a disaster.

    And another thought: you should always prefer a poker player over a craps man.

    Has there ever been a U.S. administration that had a Middle-East policy that you agreed with?

  44. avatar
    Rickey July 5, 2014 at 2:20 pm #

    Steve: The thing is, no matter how crazy, stupid or misinformed that woman was, that was a vote that McCain may have lost and he may have lost votes from other like-minded voters.
    How many of them stayed home on election day after seeing that clip?
    There is a school of thought that the problem with the Republican Party is not that it’s too nutty, but that it’s not nutty enough.

    It might be interesting if there were a poll which showed how many WND readers did not vote for McCain. That said, his refusal to go birthing did not lose him the election. His choice of Palin, which originally gave him a boost in the polls, turned out to be a disaster. His erratic behavior during the financial crisis and the town hall debate where he wandered around the stage didn’t help him, either.

    http://www.maniacworld.com/McCain-wandering-around.html

  45. avatar
    Slartibartfast July 5, 2014 at 2:41 pm #

    Given the realities of gerrymandering, the Democrats would need to have something like +4 or better on the generic ballot to retake the House. Hopefully, they will be running a Democratic incumbent for the presidency in 2020 and will be able to surmount that hurdle for the next round of redistricting.

    Dr. Conspiracy: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/generic_congressional_vote-2170.html

  46. avatar
    The European July 5, 2014 at 3:34 pm #

    Joey: Has there ever been a U.S. administration that had a Middle-East policy that you agreed with?

    I must admit that I did not look closely at the US Middle-East politic fefore Bush the younger. He created a disaster. My hopes – and I am not alone there – were for a rational and if possible not immoral politic -you know, “Realpolitik”.

    The politic of the Government Obama is not rational. What sense does it make in your eyes to support islamic insurgents against a secular ruler like Assad? And I do not see very much moral in changing a secular dictator against a religious one.

    The same happened already in Egypt, Tunisia and Lybia – all with the help of the US Government.

    And do not forget – the strongest ally of the US in the Middle-East ist Saudi Arabia – the most oppresive regime of them all. But they have oil and money …..

  47. avatar
    Joey July 5, 2014 at 4:37 pm #

    The European: I must admit that I did not look closely at the US Middle-East politic fefore Bush the younger. He created a disaster. My hopes – and I am not alone there – were for a rational and if possible not immoral politic -you know, “Realpolitik”.

    The politic of the Government Obama is not rational. What sense does it make in your eyes to support islamic insurgents against a secular ruler like Assad? And I do not see very much moral in changing a secular dictator against a religious one.

    The same happened already in Egypt, Tunisia and Lybia– all with the help of the US Government.

    And do not forget – the strongest ally of the US in the Middle-East ist Saudi Arabia – the most oppresive regime of them all. But they have oil and money …..

    The goal of US policy in Syria is the removal of Assad regime and the elevation of a multiparty democracy. To expect that multiparty democracy to be secular is unrealistic.
    The following is an excerpt from the highly influential Council on Foreign Relations:
    “The goals of U.S. policy should be to end the violence, bring down the Assad regime, and lay the bases for a stable democratic system with protection for the Alawite, Kurdish, and Christian minorities. It is a tall order. The Obama administration has already abandoned the goal of regime reform, and rightly so: there is no basis in Assad regime behavior for sustaining a belief that he could lead a transition to democracy. Instead, the American, European, and Turkish goal is the end of Assad family rule. But how can U.S. policymakers attain that goal in as short a period and with as little additional violence as possible?

    The answer is a strategy aimed at both weakening the regime’s support bases and encouraging the opposition to demonstrate that it seeks a nonsectarian and democratic Syria.”

  48. avatar
    The European July 5, 2014 at 4:49 pm #

    Joey: The goal of US policy in Syria is the removal of Assad regime and the elevation of a multiparty democracy. To expect that multiparty democracy to be secular is unrealistic.
    The following is an excerpt from the highly influential Council on Foreign Relations:
    “The goals of U.S. policy should be to end the violence, bring down the Assad regime, and lay the bases for a stable democratic system with protection for the Alawite, Kurdish, and Christian minorities. It is a tall order. The Obama administration has already abandoned the goal of regime reform, and rightly so: there is no basis in Assad regime behavior for sustaining a belief that he could lead a transition to democracy. Instead, the American, European, and Turkish goal is the end of Assad family rule. But how can U.S. policymakers attain that goal in as short a period and with as little additional violence as possible?

    The answer is a strategy aimed at both weakening the regime’s support bases and encouraging the opposition to demonstrate that it seeks a nonsectarian and democratic Syria.”

    If US politics ever had an unrealistic goal – you just decribed it. This policy did not work in Iraq, Libya, Tunisia and Egypt. You believe that it would work in Syria though?

    Just ask any Jew or Christian (or Druse or another religious minority) in one of these countries if they lived more secure before or after the regime-change. (Not necessary, you know the answer) It is incomprehensible for me that you, Joey, support this failed policy.

  49. avatar
    Joey July 5, 2014 at 5:46 pm #

    The European: If US politics ever had an unrealistic goal – you just decribed it. This policy did not work in Iraq, Libya, Tunisia and Egypt. You believe that it would work in Syria though?

    Just ask any Jew or Christian (or Druse or another religious minority) in one of these countries if they lived more secure before or after the regime-change. (Not necessary, you know the answer) It is incomprehensible for me that you, Joey, support this failed policy.

    I see no major policy divergence between most of Europe and the U.S. on Syria. NATO’s policy objectives are identical to U.S. policy objectives.
    It is much too soon to evaluate success or failure in Iraq, Libya , Egypt or Syria. Your position is like evaluating the outcomes of World War I in 1915 or evaluating the success of World War II for the Allies after the German occupation of France.

  50. avatar
    The European July 6, 2014 at 3:24 am #

    OK Joey, let us topple the oppressive Royal Family of the House of Saud. Free the women and the slaves there.

    No?

    Why not?

    You are so silent on this topic….

    For the rest:

    I see no European country delivering arms to the Syrian insurgents. NATO is still a dog that is wagged by it´s US tail. And drawing checks on an unknown future is too Bushy for me.

  51. avatar
    Greatkim July 6, 2014 at 4:42 am #

    Comrade Fogovich:
    Umm, greatkim is an Obot and has been since ’08. Read what he wrote again, por favor.

    He was just suggesting that we lay off the birthers, because we won long ago.

    exactly. Thanks Foggy.

    birtherism is a dead horse. What is happening is that a like minded group of fanatics is crowding the net to infinity with te same mantras about Kenya, Socialism, Vattel, stolen ss cards, forged certificates, etc. We have done our job and have won the war. Personally I have made a very minor contribution by factually debunking one of the two fake bc’s. Unfortunately I was not able to factually prove that the GOP itself initiated this whole story: GOP operatives that were present in Kenya in 2008 and GOP operatives that organized Corsi’s book presentation in Kenya. WND and Corsi had produced the Lucas Smith certificate. Now, really, what we are doing is repeating the same opposing argumentations every time a birther repeats some of their stupidity.
    We won the battle against birthers but the war against prejudice, racism, is far from over. The birther issue is becoming a dangerous distraction. We are gleefully beating a dead horse while other fresher horses are passing by, pulling carts to destroy civil rights, obstruct voting rights, deny access to health care

  52. avatar
    Barack Obama July 6, 2014 at 4:50 am #

    “I know there is going to be a segment of people for which no matter what we put out this issue will not be put to rest. But I am speaking to the vast majority of the American people, as well as to the press. We do not have time for this kind of silliness. We’ve got better stuff to do.”

    President Obama in 2011

    Greatkim

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 6, 2014 at 8:07 am #

    Orly’s verified monthly totals finally appeared at Alexa.com. Here are the comparisons:

    OrlyTaitzESQ.com

    Unique Visitors: 33,553
    Page Views: 137,036
    Avg. Daily time on Site: 2:37
    Avg. Number of pages viewed: 1.1

    ObamaConspiracy.org

    Unique Visitors: 12,671
    Page Views: 71,704
    Avg. Daily time on Site: 4:08
    Avg. Number of pages viewed: 2.14

  54. avatar
    RanTalbott July 6, 2014 at 8:30 am #

    Well, I happen to think that your visitors are a lot more unique than Orly’s ;-)

    I have to wonder how many of her visitors are are people who just check the headline to see whether she jumped any new sharks the previous day, since it appears that at least 9 out of 10 don’t bother to look at a second page.

  55. avatar
    Comrade Fogovich July 6, 2014 at 9:57 am #

    Umm, my stats package at my hosting company says I had 23,078 unique visitors last month.

  56. avatar
    Andrew Morris July 6, 2014 at 11:48 am #

    I think it’s highly likely that most of her traffic is from Obots. I also think that most of the comments are also from Obots. This is because we have inquiring minds, take some pleasure in reading her lunacy, and enjoy taunting her and her crappy supporters.

  57. avatar
    ArthurWankspittle July 6, 2014 at 12:44 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Orly’s verified monthly totals finally appeared at Alexa.com. Here are the comparisons:

    OrlyTaitzESQ.com

    Unique Visitors: 33,553
    Page Views: 137,036
    Avg. Daily time on Site: 2:37
    Avg. Number of pages viewed: 1.1

    ObamaConspiracy.org

    Unique Visitors: 12,671
    Page Views: 71,704
    Avg. Daily time on Site: 4:08
    Avg. Number of pages viewed: 2.14

    Obots read more than Birthers. I think I could have predicted that.

  58. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 6, 2014 at 12:45 pm #

    Orly has 16 articles on her front page, compared to 6 on this site. So you can read more without going to another page there. Also I have a fair number of articles that you have to click on to read everything. Working against Orly is that a fair amount of her content requires going off site to see.

    What’s more encouraging is that a visitor here stays longer.

    RanTalbott: I have to wonder how many of her visitors are are people who just check the headline to see whether she jumped any new sharks the previous day, since it appears that at least 9 out of 10 don’t bother to look at a second page.

  59. avatar
    Joey July 6, 2014 at 2:03 pm #

    Barack Obama:
    “I know there is going to be a segment of people for which no matter what we put out this issue will not be put to rest. But I am speaking to the vast majority of the American people, as well as to the press. We do not have time for this kind of silliness. We’ve got better stuff to do.”

    President Obama in 2011

    Greatkim
    From a poster at freerepublic.com today, responding to a thread entitled “Who’s Your Daddy? Barack Soebarkah: “I just wish DNA would enter the picture somewhere along the line- – –
    ___________________________________________
    It already has. Don’t kid yourself there are a lot of domestic and international authorities who have done the DNA. In the intelligence and law enforcement community, DNA is a natural investigative tool. The big question is what is behind the silence and cover up that is taking place. I have always believed there is high level blackmail afoot, perhaps a WMD threat, that is keeping the lid on this one. Nothing else makes any sense.”

  60. avatar
    Andrew Morris July 6, 2014 at 3:12 pm #

    Does call into question her 50+ million, though

  61. avatar
    Barack Obama July 6, 2014 at 4:40 pm #

    Joey
    It already has. Don’t kid yourself there are a lot of domestic and international authorities who have done the DNA. In the intelligence and law enforcement community, DNA is a natural investigative tool. The big question is what is behind the silence and cover up that is taking place. I have always believed there is high level blackmail afoot, perhaps a WMD threat, that is keeping the lid on this one. Nothing else makes any sense.”

    and that’s exactly the type of discussion we should never enter. By elevating these people’s idiocies to debatable issues we become idiots ourselves

  62. avatar
    Greatkim July 6, 2014 at 4:46 pm #

    that was me not Obama.

  63. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 6, 2014 at 4:55 pm #

    I wouldn’t be surprised if her traffic today is a fraction of what it used to be. My page views this past month were about one half of the average for the past 3 years. Assuming Orly had the same decline in readership that I did, and that her counts cover 68 months, then the total page views would be around 18 million.

    While I would suspect her view counter increments accurately now, there may be earlier statistics that represents web requests rather than pages. Web requests reported by some software include every item on the page, style sheet, script, html and image as a separate hit. Those numbers get huge.

    Andrew Morris: Does call into question her 50+ million, though

  64. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 6, 2014 at 4:56 pm #

    Greatkim:

    birtherism is a dead horse…. We have done our job and have won the war.

    Patently untrue; Birfers continue to spout their lies with the goals of delegitimizing the President and/or of inspiring one of their more unhinged adherents to commit violence. While you and I and any reasonable person can see that the issue is settled, this by no means has stopped this gang of seditionists from trying to bring down the government.

    Greatkim:

    Now, really, what we are doing is repeating the same opposing argumentations every time a birther repeats some of their stupidity.

    Indeed. And that is a worthwhile effort.

    In 2000, those endeavoring to turn the Republic over to billionaires and corporations lied unceasingly about Al Gore; the corporate media, then as now, stood on the sidelines and espoused false equivalencies and “balance.” The end result was that Gore won the election, yet by a small enough margin that the Republicans and their allies were able to subvert the will of the people and turn the presidency over to the Cheney/Bush Crime Family… with utterly disastrous and predictable results.

    In 2004, this cabal again lied unceasingly about Mr. Kerry, and the corporate media again took to the sidelines and wrung their collective hands, reporting only what the campaigns said without analysis, all in the name of “balance.” The result was an even worse four years than the previous four years, driving the country toward economic collapse.

    In 2008, something happened: with no help from the corporate media, who still maintain a “both sides do it” posture, Democrats and the Obama campaign fought back against the lies… and won.

    Fighting back, calling out the liars, is a winning strategy. I hope the Democrats have learned this.

    I’ll stop calling out their lies when they stop lying.

    Greatkim:

    We won the battle against birthers but the war against prejudice, racism, is far from over. The birther issue is becoming a dangerous distraction. We are gleefully beating a dead horse while other fresher horses are passing by, pulling carts to destroy civil rights, obstruct voting rights, deny access to health care

    If you were speaking of people or groups only capable of doing one thing, I’d be inclined to agree with you.

    Since people are capable of caring about and doing something about more than one thing, yours is a silly argument.

    This website is about Obama Conspiracies, not about health care or Benghazi! or civil rights. Doc tries to keep things on-topic around here, and I defer to his judgment on that. There are plenty of venues to fight those battles (my positions on which are largely in agreement with yours,) without having to stop debunking Birfer lies here. I use those other venues to engage on those issues.

    It’s not a zero-sum game; we can fight the Birfer smears here, and still fight the good fight elsewhere.

  65. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 6, 2014 at 4:57 pm #

    I thought you got the voice and timing just right. ;)

    Greatkim: that was me not Obama.

  66. avatar
    Joey July 6, 2014 at 5:46 pm #

    Barack Obama: and that’s exactly the type of discussion we should never enter. By elevating these people’s idiocies to debatable issues we become idiots ourselves

    Nah, by countering foolishness with truth, we minimize the impact of foolishness.
    “A lie told often enough becomes truth.” Allowing lies to go unchallenged is the worst possible strategy.

  67. avatar
    Thomas Brown July 6, 2014 at 11:22 pm #

    I’ve never bought that aphorism. An edit, if I may: “An unresearchable or conveniently vague lie, told without being challenged often enough, will be accepted by enough intellectually lazy, incurious people to cause the rest of us grave concern.”

    Many lies are self-disproving. More are disproven in the course of events. Lies in the Social Science arena are especially prone to acceptance as truth, because of anecdotal truthiness and the ‘damn lies and statistics’ meme.

    But if every time a lie comes around someone cries BS on it, it must fail to develop much traction. In the Vedas, one of the noblest struggles is Conquering Ignorance. It sure won’t heal itself.

    Debunking Birthers rarely convinces them, but it has the value of adding to the record. Subsequent rational actors unfamiliar with the whole deal can some day read both Birthers & Obots and check what they said, and it will be plain 20/20 hindsight that we were correct and they were, and are, plain loopy.

  68. avatar
    justlw July 7, 2014 at 1:13 am #

    Never give up. Never surrender.

    http://xkcd.com/386/

  69. avatar
    Greatkim July 7, 2014 at 2:28 am #

    Joey:
    “A lie told often enough becomes truth.” Allowing lies to go unchallenged is the worst possible strategy.

    that is an assumption. One of the major rhetorical devices used on the net is phrasing in such a way that assumptions are never questioned. This equates to an attempt of building common ground on thin air. And when it isn’t thin it is basically irrelevant in the context of discussion. An example of that is the famous question; “which is the best soft drink in the world after Coca Cola ?” This question assumes Coca Cola to be the best drink in the world and it is phrased in a way to make it an agreed fact. Internet is extremely favorable environment for this rhetorical method.
    When do Birthers lose ? Not when they spew idiocies about Obama or his birth certificate but only when their adherence to the shared assumptions is questioned by their peers. Things like not being patriotic, being gay, being an immigrant,
    Everything debunkable about birther claims has been debunked. And it has been a worthwhile exercise. What is left is repetition ad infinitum. Replying, ad infinitum, to this encourages the loons to regroup and insist. In the end we won’t be prized with confessions and declarations of surrender – and we all know this. Time to move on.

  70. avatar
    Lupin July 7, 2014 at 2:44 am #

    Joey: Has there ever been a U.S. administration that had a Middle-East policy that you agreed with?

    In my case, I’ll honestly say, “no”, since the US rightly and smartly refused to support the French and the British in their ill-conceived Egyptian / Suez adventure. Their last smart move.

    I will also concede that the French and the British screwed up the middle East first before WWII,

  71. avatar
    Joey July 7, 2014 at 2:58 am #

    Lupin: In my case, I’ll honestly say, “no”, since the US rightly and smartly refused to support the French and the British in their ill-conceived Egyptian / Suez adventure. Their last smart move.

    I will also concede that the French and the British screwed up the middle East first before WWII,

    As did Kaiser Wilhelm and his infatuation with the Ottoman Empire.

  72. avatar
    Joey July 7, 2014 at 3:08 am #

    Greatkim: that is an assumption. One of the major rhetorical devices used on the net is phrasing in such a way that assumptions are never questioned. This equates to an attempt of building common ground on thin air. And when it isn’t thin it is basically irrelevant in the context of discussion. An example of that is the famous question; “which is the best soft drink in the world after Coca Cola ?” This question assumes Coca Cola to be the best drink in the world and it is phrased in a way to make it an agreed fact. Internet is extremely favorable environment for this rhetorical method.
    When do Birthers lose ? Not when they spew idiocies about Obama or his birth certificate but only when their adherence to the shared assumptions is questioned by their peers. Things like not being patriotic, being gay, being an immigrant,
    Everything debunkable about birther claims has been debunked. And it has been a worthwhile exercise. What is left is repetition ad infinitum. Replying, ad infinitum, to this encourages the loons to regroup and insist. In the end we won’t be prized with confessions and declarations of surrender – and we all know this. Time to move on.

    Haven’t you noticed? The “loons” have been there for six years now and they continue to be there whether challenged or not.
    It is fine with me if you choose not to engage them. To each his own. I prefer to challenge them on their turf.

  73. avatar
    RanTalbott July 7, 2014 at 3:40 am #

    Greatkim: Replying, ad infinitum, to this encourages the loons to regroup and insist

    That is also an assumption.

    Or maybe both are “conclusions not explicitly supported by argument” ;-)

    My impression is that history tells us you’re both partly right: that there will always remain a smaller, “hard-core” group that clings to their lunacy against all attempts to bring them to reality, but that it’s important to keep that group as small as possible by challenging the lunacy.

    Two recent examples are the Iraq War and the housing bubble: in the absence of strong dissenting voices*, large numbers of people bought the emotionally-appealing BS that toppling Saddam would make us safer on the cheap, and that we could all get rich selling each other houses at the bottom of a well.

    When the emotionally-appealing BS is just encouraging people to buy pet rocks, or live vicariously by watching the Kardashians on TV, you walk away. When it’s promoting sedition, or electing obstructionist idiots to Congress at a time when we need efective action to solve serious problems, you don’t.

    * No, I haven’t forgotten that there were lots of peaceniks in the streets in 2002-2003, but they weren’t really speaking to the majority (at least, not effectively). I’m referring to voices like Obama’s, saying “Sometimes we do need to go to war, but this isn’t one of them”.

  74. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 7, 2014 at 3:41 am #

    Greatkim:

    Time to move on.

    I understand. Goodbye. Best wishes in all your other endeavors, now that you’re moving on and all.

  75. avatar
    Greatkim July 7, 2014 at 7:43 am #

    Bonsall Obot: I understand. Goodbye. Best wishes in all your other endeavors, now that you’re moving on and all.

    ok, but I like this discussion, maybe one of the few “new” discussions between Obots, So I will hang on for a while.

    How many birthers are left out there ? How many websites do they manage ? How many right wing sites have repudiated birtherism out of fear of being ridiculed ?
    What arguments do they have left ? What “new” arguments are they proposing ?

    Maybe DNA is one of the new arguments. After college papers and SS cards now it’s about DNA. And would should we expect ? Deoxyribonucleic acid experts and geneticists to show up and deliver tremendous “earth-shattering” posts about aminoacyds, double helixes, guanine, adenine, thymine and cytosine ? Just because some idiot has discovered that DNA comparison would be better than photographic look alikes.

    At the moment all we are getting is cheap fun, a continuos flow of “historic” victories in courts and with the majority of public opinion.

    Mission Accomplished, let’s not fall into zealotry.

  76. avatar
    RanTalbott July 7, 2014 at 8:42 am #

    Greatkim: How many birthers are left out there ?

    Tens of millions, including most Republicans.

    Greatkim: What arguments do they have left ?

    Depending on the birther, anything from “just Vattelism” to “all of them”: there is a shocking percentage who simply refuse to acknowledge any of the debunking that’s been done, calling it mere “opinion”, or even “propaganda”.

    Greatkim: What “new” arguments are they proposing ?

    The DNA nonsense is the only really new one, but, in order to sustain the “forgery” argument, they’ve expanded the “conspiracy” to include pretty much everyone who’s not a birfer. And added assasination squads and paid internet posters.

    At the hard core are groups convinced that the U.S. has been “taken over” by some group of “others”. Who those “others” are is a matter of sectarian dogma, ranging from the NWO, to Communists, to Satan. Jews are in there, somewhere, too, but usually under code names because overt anti-Semitism is still beyond the pale for most of us.

    The DNA argument won’t be at all technical: it’ll be a battle between factions claiming different paternities, and won’t really go anywhere because there won’t be any “evidence” to misinterpret.

    Greatkim: At the moment all we are getting is cheap fun

    No, we’re also getting dreams of violent revolution, “purges”, and revenge. Almost none of which will ever go anywhere. Almost. But we still need to be very concerned about the tiny minority who fantasize about their own remake of “Red Dawn”, because modern technology has made it feasible for very small numbers of people to do very large amounts of harm.

    And the more they’re surrounded by harmless nuts who feed their delusions, the more likely it is that some of them will (try to) act on them.

  77. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 7, 2014 at 9:35 am #

    From the beginning, this site was created as a reference. My welcome statement says:

    “Obama Conspiracy Theories since 2008 has been your destination for conspiracy theories and fringe views about Barack Obama. Having an argument with your buddies at the office? You’re in the right place.”

    It is also a hobby and debunking is a like doing a puzzle.

    My intent is that someone who wants to get the facts for whatever reason can find them here, and to the extent I can assist, find them quickly and with links to sources. The Fogbow has a different text: “Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.” While I agree with that, I think that the primary responsibility for challenging political falsehoods rests rests with the political campaigns and the news media, and my response to Fogbow’s thesis is: “Obama is a big boy and can take care of himself.”

    We will never know whether this site, the Fogbow, and all the other fine birther-critical web sites made a measurable difference in the beliefs of those who read them. Stories like the CNN trip to Hawaii were, I think, far more influential on public opinion than any of our web sites. What I do know is that mainstream media has made use of this site as a way to deep drive the topic in a short time, and find the actual sources to use in their stories. I once had a journalist contact me to ask where a certain idea started, and I told him, and the journalist then interviewed the source.

    That said, I feel a moral imperative to speak the truth when I know it, whether it makes a difference or not. If everyone did that, I think we would have less belief in conspiracy theories.

    Greatkim: ok, but I like this discussion, maybe one of the few “new” discussions between Obots, So I will hang on for a while.

  78. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) July 7, 2014 at 9:59 am #

    Greatkim: Just because some idiot has discovered that DNA comparison would be better than photographic look alikes.

    I’ve always wondered why birther plaintiffs never tried to subpoena stuff Obama touched to do a DNA test. (Or maybe some did and I missed it.)
    Like asking Kapiolani for the letter Obama sent them, or something.

    I mean, I’d have 500 better birther ideas in a day than the Best Of Birtherism [tm] could produce in 6 years. Which tells you how idiotic their movement is if even their “hive mind” can’t come up with anything original beyond “these blurred pixels look like a diver” and “Obama has more fathers than anyone else on the planet”.

  79. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 7, 2014 at 10:15 am #

    Greatkim:

    ok, but I like this discussion, maybe one of the few “new” discussions between Obots, So I will hang on for a while.

    Mind if we stick around as well? Or is it “time to move on?”

    Greatkim:

    At the moment all we are getting is cheap fun, a continuos flow of “historic” victories in courts and with the majority of public opinion.

    Yes. And even if that were true, it’s a good reason: Birfer failure amuses.

    Greatkim:

    Mission Accomplished, let’s not fall into zealotry.

    I am confused; I thought it was your position that we already had. Which is it?

    And consider: Birfers want from us exactly what you do… for us to shut up and go away. Think about why that’s what they want, and what the result might be.

  80. avatar
    JPotter July 7, 2014 at 11:59 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That said, I feel a moral imperative to speak the truth when I know it, whether it makes a difference or not. If everyone did that, I think we would have less belief in conspiracy theories.

    A nice thought, Doc, but CT nuts have convinced themselves they know the REAL truth … and that’s the problem. A lack of objectivity in regards to truth.

    Let’s hear it for philosophy, logic, rhetoric, epistemology being added back to junior high curricula.

  81. avatar
    Greatkim July 7, 2014 at 2:02 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    My intent is that someone who wants to get the facts for whatever reason can find them here, and to the extent I can assist, find them quickly and with links to sources. The Fogbow has a different text: “Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.” While I agree with that, I think that the primary responsibility for challenging political falsehoods rests rests with the political campaigns and the news media, and my response to Fogbow’s thesis is: “Obama is a big boy and can take care of himself.”

    We will never know whether this site, the Fogbow, and all the other fine birther-critical web sites made a measurable difference in the beliefs of those who read them. Stories like the CNN trip to Hawaii were, I think, far more influential on public opinion than any of our web sites.What I do know is that mainstream media has made use of this site as a way to deep drive the topic in a short time, and find the actual sources to use in their stories. I once had a journalist contact me to ask where a certain idea started, and I told him, and the journalist then interviewed the source.

    That said, I feel a moral imperative to speak the truth when I know it, whether it makes a difference or not. If everyone did that, I think we would have less belief in conspiracy theories.

    I much appreciate. Yours is truly a very informative site about everything birther. I read it quite frequently and allways with great pleasure. It is well organized and focused on issues.

    The anti birther sites have undoubtedly contributed to Obama’s re-election. I am a passionate anti-birther. The immense collective effort of making birtherism the synonym of stupidity has paid off.

    What more is there to reap now ?

  82. avatar
    Arthur July 7, 2014 at 2:21 pm #

    Greatkim: What more is there to reap now ?

    Maybe nothing, but I’m still following birtherism because I want to see how the Arpaio/Zullo/CCP grift is going to end, how how the posters at Birther Report will react when it becomes clear that Arpaio and company have abandoned their cause.

  83. avatar
    Dave July 7, 2014 at 3:39 pm #

    For most of the effort toward making the birthers look like idiots, we have to credit the birthers.

    But I am also wondering what more there is. The birthers have pretty much run out of material. They just repeat themselves. BR hasn’t posted in 3 days. Maybe the show is over.

    Greatkim: The immense collective effort of making birtherism the synonym of stupidity has paid off.

    What more is there to reap now ?

  84. avatar
    Jim July 7, 2014 at 3:48 pm #

    Dave:
    But I am also wondering what more there is. The birthers have pretty much run out of material. They just repeat themselves. BR hasn’t posted in 3 days. Maybe the show is over.

    http://obamadiary.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/critics-are-silent.jpg?w=655

  85. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 7, 2014 at 3:59 pm #

    Jim: http://obamadiary.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/critics-are-silent.jpg?w=655

    Just so.

    Birferism is dressed-up racism. Every Birfer is a racist, or willingly doing the lifting for racists. No exceptions. Every refutation of Birferism shines the light on their underlying racism. And that is a worthy effort.

  86. avatar
    Joey July 7, 2014 at 5:46 pm #

    Arthur: Maybe nothing, but I’m still following birtherism because I want to see how the Arpaio/Zullo/CCP grift is going to end, how how the posters at Birther Report will react when it becomes clear that Arpaio and company have abandoned their cause.

    Yes. That’s what keeps me motivated as well. A well-known and respected (in conservative circles) elected law chief enforcement official of the 4th largest county in America promises (through a proxy) “universe shattering” evidence, I will continue to pay attention.

  87. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 7, 2014 at 6:27 pm #

    Granted there is nothing new and the birther movement has largely descended into obscenity. The remaining questions for me center on the genesis and the operational details of the birther movement. The big question, and one that may never get answered is whether the birther movement was an engineered smear and Farah literally created it as he claimed, or whether it evolved naturally–that is, “is birtherism a conspiracy.” The other question deals with funding. We know how many birthers will show up at an event, and we have hard numbers for Orly’s present web traffic, but we do not know how much Orly, Birther Report and the Cold Case Posse rake in. I think those are important to finish the picture.

    I have announced that this blog will go dormant when Obama leaves office. One of my final articles may be titled: “Autopsy.”

    Greatkim: What more is there to reap now ?

  88. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 7, 2014 at 6:40 pm #

    I expect the end of Mr. Obama’s presidency in 2017 will put the matter to rest forever, just like the Warren Report.

  89. avatar
    RanTalbott July 7, 2014 at 6:45 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in): “Obama has more fathers than anyone else on the planet”.

    Since success has many fathers, I guess that means Obama must be a success.

    No wonder the birfers are so frustrated…

  90. avatar
    Greatkim July 8, 2014 at 4:02 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Granted there is nothing new and the birther movement has largely descended into obscenity. The remaining questions for me center on the genesis and the operational details of the birther movement. The big question, and one that may never get answered is whether the birther movement was an engineered smear and Farah literally created it as he claimed, or whether it evolved naturally–that is, “is birtherism a conspiracy.” The other question deals with funding. We know how many birthers will show up at an event, and we have hard numbers for Orly’s present web traffic, but we do not know how much Orly, Birther Report and the Cold Case Posse rake in. I think those are important to finish the picture.

    I have announced that this blog will go dormant when Obama leaves office. One of my final articles may be titled: “Autopsy.”

    The Genesis of birtherism. That would be the topping on the cake.
    I have attempted this before but have encountered harsh criticism from my fellow birthers. There are many element to work on and the connecting lines are very thin.
    Most of my fellow birthers are convinced this is just a collective manifestation of insanity and so the entire question is basically treated like a joke. I don’t believe the story about the Clintonistas having started this. It was a well orchestrated plot for an October surprise back in 2004.

    Here is what I know

    1) Apparently in mid 2004 a GOP task force was in Nairobi – precisely here
    http://www.windsorgolfresort.com/
    there are more than one reference about this on a Kenyan blog called Jukwaa.
    This hotel is owned by a top Kenyan right wing evangelical politician – belonging to the anti Obama, anti Odinga camp. He was very active during Kenya’s brief civil war following the local elections.
    The interesting fact is that the first comments about this visit date to “before” the question erupted here.
    Wayne Madsen has shortly reported about this.

    The scope of this mission was to dig up anything “Obama”.

    2) Corsi’s visit and arrest in Kenya. He was not alone. With him was Tim Buhler, a GOP operative and extremist.

    3) Kenya has a huge document forging industry – due to the absurd bureaucracy citizens have to face daily. You can walk down Nairobi and start shopping for forged documents whenever you wish. On YouYube there is a nice series of 3 videos about document forgery from a Kenyan TV station.
    Corsi and Farah have repeatedly mentioned their Kenyan “contacts” who are in effect Nairobi scammers.
    This is where the Lucas Smith Document Emerges – I believe it was acquired by Corsi – who has been far to hasty in debunking it producing other forged documents.

    4) During his Kenyan stay Corsi was to present a Book. This presentation was organized by Eagle Publishing Company, a Kenyan evangelical institution headed by a politician who hates Obama (there are many in Kenya)

    And there is more

    This story is extremely complicated, but it has all the elements of a well planned scheme with a clear scope.

    If you wish Doc – I can send you all the documentation and searches I had done – there is nothing conclusive – more questions than answers. I trust your superior investigative skills.

  91. avatar
    Greatkim July 8, 2014 at 4:03 am #

    forgot to mention that Corsi received a visit from the American Embassy while he was jailed

  92. avatar
    bovril July 8, 2014 at 4:47 am #

    Bonsall Obot: Just so.
    Birferism is dressed-up racism. Every Birfer is a racist, or willingly doing the lifting for racists. No exceptions. Every refutation of Birferism shines the light on their underlying racism. And that is a worthy effort.

    Minor nit pick. IMO Birfoons are all bigots of which some/many/most are racist.

    All racists are bigots, not all bigots are racist.

    I admit that when reading somewhere like BirfoonReport it’s hard to see the difference it just is as little lazy to blanket use racist. YMMV

  93. avatar
    Greatkim July 8, 2014 at 4:52 am #

    http://jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/2688/guess-hosting-jerome-corsi-kenya

    Einstein

    For months I (amongst a few here) have sounded the alarm that a certain advance group (connected to Corsi) had been meeting at Windsor Hotel with an ethnic faction of the GCG with huge money briefcases in exchange for exclusive and confidential access to ALL records with an “OBAMA” name on them. This faction has been operating clandestinely as a hidden network of people who speak a “common ethnic language” and who have “connections” all over major depts in Kenya today. Its not rocket science to figure out why. Come on now!!!!

    Read more: http://jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/2688/guess-hosting-jerome-corsi-kenya#ixzz36rhjmOEq

  94. avatar
    Greatkim July 8, 2014 at 5:00 am #

    Oct 7, 2008 at 4:34pm
    Quote Post Options
    Post by Guest on Oct 7, 2008 at 4:34pm
    Now I hope some of you take us seriously when we alert you in advance of whats happening.

    We have said here for months that there is an Anarcho-Mugikuyu-MKM-PNU faction that has been seeking to profit from this. And some of you have been quick to defend what is now open.

    So let me ask you another question: Who are the pastors (clandestine or otherwise) who invited him and his group?

    Hint: One of the members of the group is a well known “Witchcraft Mission Evangelist” … hehe

    Read more: http://jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/2688/guess-hosting-jerome-corsi-kenya#ixzz36rjBnv8a

    note. the evangelist is Pastor Muthee – the one who anointed Sarah Palin

  95. avatar
    Greatkim July 8, 2014 at 5:08 am #

    just one more from Jukwaa

    Oct 7, 2008 at 8:08pm
    Quote Post Options
    Post by Guest on Oct 7, 2008 at 8:08pm
    Adongo, Job, etc

    Im a bit surprised that when some of us pointed these moves at play since March-08, most of the folks here thought it was child’s play. What If i told you that by then I knew about the Pastor Muthi angle and the Evangelicals in play? What if I told you that after Accord, some strange characters hosted by UHURU KENYATTA were at Windsor Hotel for de-briefs on intelligence regarding the OBAMA family profiles in Kenya?

    How come in July we heard that Obama’s Granny in Kogelo house was broken into but nothign of material value was stolen? Would it be a stretch to tell you that it was the work of paid hitmen out to gather ANY family confidential information for later use?

    My friends, connecting the dots when you step back and see the MOTIVEs and EVENTs is easy.

    CERTAIN ELEMENTS OF MKM-Mafia have accepted financial handouts in exchange for selling out your kinsman.

    One interesting question: how come PNU and Kalonzo’s party (though invited) did not attend the Demcoratic Party Convention? how come a silent party of operatives were at the GOP convention (and this story is not out yet). What info did they carry with them? why was there initial desire to remove Immigration from Kajwang?

    There is more than meets the eyes. Who led foreign groups to George Obama (who was previously unkonwn)? how would international reporters have found such a guy in the slums.

    CERTAIN MKM forces in the intelligence and party factions are out to derail your Comrade.

    There is no doubt about it.

    Read more: http://jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/2688/guess-hosting-jerome-corsi-kenya?q=windsor#ixzz36rlnX9sK

  96. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 8, 2014 at 10:58 am #

    bovril: Minor nit pick. IMO Birfoons are all bigots of which some/many/most are racist.

    All racists are bigots, not all bigots are racist.

    I admit that when reading somewhere like BirfoonReport it’s hard to see the difference it just is as little lazy to blanket use racist. YMMV

    You missed my qualifier. I put it there on purpose.

    “… or willingly doing the lifting for racists.”

    Birferism is racist; non-racists who embrace Birferism for their own reasons are still doing the work of racists.