Main Menu

Barack Obama: The Burden of His Kenyan Roots–a book review

David Karanja is a Kenyan journalist and author. His 2011 book, Barack Obama: The Burden of His Kenyan Roots, touches on some of the same topics that have appeared in the birther movement. The book was published in the context of the run-up to Obama’s 2012 re-election campaign, and makes the case that Obama’s Kenyan roots are an impediment to his political career.

Karanja mentions briefly Jerome Corsi’s expulsion from Kenya, the accusations of anti-British feeling engendered by events in Kenya’s colonial period, and even gives a shout out to the birthers, albeit a misspelled one:

For Barack Obama, the claim by these Americans, who are popularly known as the berther (sic) movement, is an unnecessary burden because all available evidence indicates that the president was born in the U.S. To try and end debate over his place of birth, Obama published his birth certificate, which indicates he was born in Hawaii. This has not ended the debate and some Americans, including senior politicians, continue to link his birth to Kenya.

The author goes on to cite attacks against the President through stories about members of his Kenyan family, George Hussein Onyango Obama (the poor neglected uncle) and Zeituni Onyango (who was living illegally in the US). The Court’s decision to grant asylum to “Aunt Zeituni” was widely criticized in Kenya.

The review of recent Kenyan history and US-Kenyan relations is the meat of the book and what commends it to a wider audience.

, ,

51 Responses to Barack Obama: The Burden of His Kenyan Roots–a book review

  1. avatar
    john October 22, 2014 at 3:37 pm #

    Interesting choice of words in this paragraph……

    ” all available evidence” – Does that mean there may be evidence out there that isn’t available to the contrary.

    Ask any birther…No court has ever allowed discovery. This would allow records to be obtained from Indonesia (Probably supporting an adoption) and it would allow custody of records from Kenya. (Whom Corsi said have been destroyed)

    and of course, you have to consider his college records from Occidental and Columbia for which Obama has never released even with 5 million dollar carrot from Donald Trump. And finally, any sort records Obama’s literary agent had for some crazy and unknown reason printed on the literary phamphlet that said he was born in Kenya, and error that apparently sat unnoticed for 16 years.

    Assuming these records were able to be obtained, the narrative would be very different about Obama.

  2. avatar
    Benji Franklin October 22, 2014 at 3:47 pm #

    Birthers will combine ” senior politicians, continue to link his birth to Kenya.” with their own made up, “stray dog craps along rural Mississippi road” to get a headline like:
    “Proof of Obama Crimes Blackout! Enhancement of Legibly Expunged Canine Roadside Excrement Suggests Conclusively that U.S. Supreme Court Declared Obama ineligible in 2008!”

  3. avatar
    john October 22, 2014 at 4:23 pm #

    Really it’s the evidence that “Not Available” that is an interest to birthers and that’s what they want to see:

    Original Vault Copy Birth Certificate – Orly tried to get a look at it but was denied.

    Stanley Ann Dunham’s Passport records – The State Department revealed that her early records had been destroyed. How convenient.

    Obama’s College records. – Again Orly tried to get them but was denied. Trump is interested in them too. (He just interested in one thing – birthplace) Some say his application records are probably destroyed. Again how convenient.

    Indonesian Records – For support of adoption. Again no discovery has ever been made in this area.

    Kenya Records. – Corsi says they may have been destroyed. Again how convenient.

    The list goes on and on.

    All “Unavailable” evidence shows ?????????????????????

  4. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 22, 2014 at 4:25 pm #

    In normal English usage, it doesn’t mean that.

    Birtherism is based in evidence that they haven’t seen, that is, it’s a prejudice, not an opinion.

    john: ” all available evidence” – Does that mean there may be evidence out there that isn’t available to the contrary.

  5. avatar
    slash2k October 22, 2014 at 5:20 pm #

    @john: Most of this evidence that “is an interest to birthers” is simply irrelevant anyway.

    Suppose for the sake of argument that he was adopted in Indonesia. That would not (could not) change his birthplace, his U.S. citizenship, or his eligibility to be president. United States law covers that, not what some bureaucrat in Indonesia might or might not have done.

    Also, even if a court allowed discovery, what makes you think a U.S. court’s jurisdiction extends to Indonesia? How would a court’s decision here allow records to be obtained from Indonesia? Either the Indonesians turn over the records voluntarily (in which case you don’t need a court action here) or you get an order from an Indonesian court (in which case you don’t need a court action here).

    In other words, you are chasing figments of your imagination with no clue how the world works.

  6. avatar
    RanTalbott October 22, 2014 at 5:35 pm #

    john: Does that mean there may be evidence out there that isn’t available to the contrary.

    Sure. Just like “all available evidence shows that the Universe appeared 13B years ago in the Big Bang” means that we might yet find evidence that the Christian God really is a cosmic practical joker who created it 6000 years ago and faked the geological and cosmological evidence as some sort of “test of faith”.

    And maybe you can save on postage by leaving your mortgage payments on the kitchen table instead of mailing them, in hopes that you can have them delivered by the monkeys that will fly out of your ass “any day now”.

    john: This would allow records to be obtained from Indonesia (Probably supporting an adoption)

    No, it wouldn’t:

    a. No U.S. court can compel a sovereign foreign government to release records, and
    b. There’s no reason to believe that Indonesia lied when it said there were no such records.

    Even if they existed, they would prove nothing of any legal significance.

    john: and it would allow custody of records from Kenya. (Whom Corsi said have been destroyed)

    a. See above.
    b. If Corsi told me the time of day, I’d demand a second opinion.

    john: And finally, any sort records Obama’s literary agent had

    There are no such records: the woman who wrote the bio admitted that the reason she made the mistake was that she didn’t check any.

  7. avatar
    CarlOrcas October 22, 2014 at 6:14 pm #

    john: Assuming these records were able to be obtained, the narrative would be very different about Obama.

    If you know that why don’t you just tell us what they say?

  8. avatar
    Steve October 22, 2014 at 6:42 pm #

    john: This would allow records to be obtained from Indonesia

    You mean the school records that listed his place of birth as Hawaii?

  9. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG October 22, 2014 at 7:43 pm #

    john:

    Original Vault Copy Birth Certificate – Orly tried to get a look at it but was denied.

    A thing she has no legal right to see.

    Stanley Ann Dunham’s Passport records – The State Department revealed that her early records had been destroyed. How convenient.

    Even if they weren’t destroyed, you can’t just request to see records that do not belong to you, unless you are an officer with a warrant.

    Obama’s College records. – Again Orly tried to get them but was denied.

    If I were to walk into Mary Hardin and Baylor’s administrative office, and demand to see my wife’s college records. They would tell me “No”. What makes you think some very aggressive non-relative of the President would be allowed to see his?

    Indonesian Records – For support of adoption.

    Once again, that whole “You’re not entitled to see these!” comes into play. That said, Obama’s American citizenship could not be ever be revoked by anyone, but himself, and he would have been too young to do so.

    Kenya Records. – Corsi says they may have been destroyed. Again how convenient.

    Corsi says a lot of things…which later turn out to be half-trues and other assorted lies.

    The list goes on and on.

    Yes, your list of stupid goes on. With each precious breath of life-giving air wasted by an idiot like you, it goes on.

    All “Unavailable” evidence shows ?????????????????????

    What Evidence? All I see is speculation. I’m no legal expert, but even I know what an accusation with nothing to back it up is called.

    Try harder, stupid!

  10. avatar
    roadburner October 22, 2014 at 7:46 pm #

    john:
    Stanley Ann Dunham’s Passport records – The State Department revealed that her early records had been destroyed.How convenient.

    what? you mean you’re not satisfied with the passport records that chris strunk obtained which clearly shows the date that dunham’s first passport was issued as 1965?

    you know, the documents that prove she never was in Kenya in 1961.

  11. avatar
    Rickey October 22, 2014 at 10:30 pm #

    john:

    ” all available evidence” – Does that mean there may be evidence out there that isn’t available to the contrary.

    Ask any birther…No court has ever allowed discovery.This would allow records to be obtained from Indonesia (Probably supporting an adoption) and it would allow custody of records from Kenya. (Whom Corsi said have been destroyed)

    and of course, you have to consider his college records from Occidental and Columbia for which Obama has never released even with 5 million dollar carrot from Donald Trump.And finally, any sort records Obama’s literary agent had for some crazy and unknown reason printed on the literary phamphlet that said he was born in Kenya, and error that apparently sat unnoticed for 16 years.

    Assuming these records were able to be obtained, the narrative would be very different about Obama.

    I see that you still have no compunction about trotting our your ignorance for everyone to see.

    Discovery doesn’t automatically allow a litigant to get every record he or she wants to see. I can’t envision any scenario under which Obama’s college records would be relevant to his eligibility to be President. Even if his college records say that he was born on Pluto, how would that be admissible evidence? College records – particularly from a private college such as Occidental – are not official government records. People can and do lie on their college applications. When I was in college one of my classmates lied on his application that his residence was in Connecticut so he could get in-state tuition (he used his uncle’s residence when if fact he was living with his parents in New York). Do his college records constitute proof that he was actually living in Connecticut? Of course not.

    As others have pointed out, your fantasy that discovery could lead to the production of Obama’s records from Indonesia and Kenya is a pipe dream. U.S.courts have no jurisdiction over foreign countries, which means that they have no authority to compel the production of records from either Indonesia or Kenya. Of course, the only records which Kenya might have are any records which may exist from Obama’s visits there as an adult.

  12. avatar
    Benji Franklin October 22, 2014 at 11:35 pm #

    john: Really it’s the evidence that “Not Available” that is an interest to birthers and that’s what they want to see:

    No, John. It is the never-ending unsubstantiated speculation that evidence of almost ANY CRIME or eligibility inadequacy “could exist”, that is of interest to Birthers, because such an an assertion emboldens them to attempt to shift their obligation to offer evidence proving such charges, to an imaginary obligation on Obama’s part to satisfy each accuser’s outrageously detailed demand for specific evidence disproving each and every one of the hypothetical scenarios Obama-haters have invented to create the impression that some crime was committed.

    Those haters then preposter, as you imply here, that the failure of Obama to meet these incessant demands for more “proof” can only be indicative of guilt on Obama’s part. And you all suggest that what is actually your collective excess of more and more groundless accusations, when unanswered to your liking, becomes compelling evidence of an ever-widening conspiracy to shield Obama from some imaginary just deserts.

    Obama is the two-term President of the United States of America; you are in the middle of your second four-year term of being a lunatic.

  13. avatar
    Slartibartfast October 23, 2014 at 1:43 am #

    John,

    You know what else is “unavailable”?

    The statutes that give you the right to see any of the documents you ask for.

    Other people who have released the type of records which you demand the President of the United States produce.

    Any textbook where President Obama (or anyone else, for that matter) might have learned that he was not eligible for the presidency.

    How about this: In order to figure out whether or not anything is amiss with President Obama’s documentation, one must first know what normal documentation looks like. If the birthers are serious about determining the legitimacy of the President’s papers, then every birther should release every single document of their own (or at the very least everything that they are demanding of President Obama) as well as arranging for neutral third parties to establish the veracity of the physical documents themselves. Until they do that, it is impossible for them to know what is normal and what would be signs of forgery.

    Are you willing to make a show of good faith and release all of your own documentation so that we can see the differences between your completely legit papers and damming evidence that you continually claim would be found in President Obama’s records? Or are you so desperate to cling to the belief that President Obama is illegitimate that you don’t even notice giving up your integrity?

    john: Really it’s the evidence that “Not Available” that is an interest to birthers and that’s what they want to see:

  14. avatar
    Lupin October 23, 2014 at 4:09 am #

    “…and makes the case that Obama’s Kenyan roots are an impediment to his political career.”

    Indeed. Obama will never be elected to any high political office as long as… Oh wait. Never mind.

  15. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) October 23, 2014 at 6:04 am #

    the accusations of anti-British feeling engendered by events in Kenya’s colonial period

    The funny thing is, had Obama been a white Republican, the right would have praised how his “Kenyan roots” echo the feelings of the Founders toward the British and their oppression of Muricans. But since he’s a black Democrat, the same basis gets twisted into “he hates colonialism, therefore he hates the US for meddling with other countries”.

    But then again, I’ve long given up trying to reason with the crazy base.

  16. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) October 23, 2014 at 6:08 am #

    john: Assuming these records were able to be obtained, the narrative would be very different about Obama.

    Oh, and I thought for a moment you’d repeated the old “if only…, this would all go away” lie. But then I realized you don’t even assume anymore that the release of those (real and made-up) records would put all your worries to rest.

    john: Kenya Records. – Corsi says they may have been destroyed. Again how convenient.

    How convenient for birthers to claim all those records that allegedly prove their story have been destroyed. That way their claim becomes impossible to refute, at least in their version of reality.

    Hey john, how convenient all records proving you killed your ex-girlfriend have been destroyed, along with the papers proving you became a North Korean citizen in 2000 and gave flying lessons to the 9/11 hijackers.

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 23, 2014 at 7:31 am #

    I have not seen anything from the Department of State that shows conclusively that Dunham did not have a US Passport in 1961. The very fact that we can infer that she had a passport in 1965, but no records of that were found, invalidates any claim that their not finding any records in 1961 means there never were such records.

    It is my personal belief that they have a 1965 record (a microfilmed issuance card) that they haven’t released.

    roadburner: what? you mean you’re not satisfied with the passport records that chris strunk obtained which clearly shows the date that dunham’s first passport was issued as 1965?

  18. avatar
    roadburner October 23, 2014 at 7:49 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I have not seen anything from the Department of State that shows conclusively that Dunham did not have a US Passport in 1961. The very fact that we can infer that she had a passport in 1965, but no records of that were found, invalidates any claim that their not finding any records in 1961 means there never were such records.

    It is my personal belief that they have a 1965 record (a microfilmed issuance card) that they haven’t released.

    i’m pretty convinced doc

    the passport documents obtained by strunk all show up until her application made in jakata that her passport nº F777788 was issued in 1965

    if she had changed her name and renovated the information prior to 1965, the nº F777788 would have been issued before that date.

    ok, not the most convincing arguement, but hey!…gimme a break!…i’m just a simple bike mechanic! 😀

  19. avatar
    Reality Check October 23, 2014 at 8:15 am #

    Corsi “proof” that Obama birth records may have been destroyed amounts to a statement Kenya supposed searched for any birth records related to Barack Obama II and none existed. Corsi’ explanation of course is that they existed and were destroyed. So was the evidence that the moon landing was staged.

    john: Kenya Records. – Corsi says they may have been destroyed. Again how convenient.

  20. avatar
    Northland10 October 23, 2014 at 9:13 am #

    john:
    Really it’s the evidence that “Not Available” that is an interest to birthers and that’s what they want to see:

    Original Vault Copy Birth Certificate – Orly tried to get a look at it but was denied.

    Stanley Ann Dunham’s Passport records – The State Department revealed that her early records had been destroyed.How convenient.

    Obama’s College records. – Again Orly tried to get them but was denied.Trump is interested in them too. (He just interested in one thing – birthplace)Some say his application records are probably destroyed.Again how convenient.

    I wonder how many Birthers have seen their own “vault copy”, Passport records, especially from 1961, or their own college records beyond the official and unofficial transcripts, provided that they even went to college. How many of them have asked their primary school for their kindergarten records?

  21. avatar
    John Potter October 23, 2014 at 10:01 am #

    john: No court has ever allowed discovery. This would allow records to be obtained from Indonesia

    I see “discovery” has taken on a magical / holy significance in birfers’ imaginations. And why not? Having never seen it, the mind naturally uses it as a blank check. Sort of a ‘god of the gaps’ device.

    Similarly, our pal Herms has asserted for over a year now that the WH LFBC could never have been scanned upside down. Why? Because anyone charged with such a task wouldn’t dare to screw it up! (Reminds me of the scene in Indiana Jones … remove that idol carefully…! ) In birfer minds, Obama is a mystical figure, and anything associated with him is a powerful, unobtainable totem. In reality, the greater the import, the greater the likelihood of error. After all, humans are involved.

  22. avatar
    Jim October 23, 2014 at 10:13 am #

    John,
    The President was born in Hawaii and is eligible to serve as President. You have no proof he wasn’t. All your demands for anything you can’t have just so you can try and claim they show something they don’t will not change that basic fact. Now go back to your basement and pout some more…or even better, where’s your evidence the President WASN’T born in Hawaii? You’ve yet to show any evidence of that.

  23. avatar
    alg October 23, 2014 at 10:40 am #

    John,

    None of what you haven’t seen means anything. It’s what you have seen that counts. And what you have seen is that the State of Hawaii on three separate occasions has officially verified that the President’s LFBC found on Whitehouse.gov is accurate and authentic. This is corroborated by not one, but two published legal notices in two separate Honolulu newspapers published in August, 1961.

    Nothing else is required or necessary. End of story. Your constant demand for more “proof” is useless nonsense. No other American citizen, President or not, would be required to produce anything else to prove his or her citizenship. Why do you insist that more is required of Mr. Obama, when he has already provided far more than what you would ever be required to provide?

    alg

  24. avatar
    OllieOxenFree October 23, 2014 at 11:20 am #

    john: Really it’s the evidence that “Not Available” that is an interest to birthers and that’s what they want to see…

    And therein lies the problem, john. It will always be the absence of specific evidence that holds the smoking gun for conspiracy theorists. Always. Any evidence to the contrary must not be accepted, any source must immediately be mistrusted, any documentation completely rejected, and any official statement must be seen as just another part of the overall cover-up of the real conspiracy.

    If the President does not release his school records, well then the evidence must certainly be there.

    If the President does not order a release of his “original vault record,” then the evidence must certainly be there.

    If foreign countries are unwilling to allow their government records to be released to the public, then the evidence must certainly be there.

    But… say if a government document is released, and then verified by the certifying authority of that document, then it must be rejected at all costs and not accepted as valid proof of anything.

    There is no possible way to win against conspiracy theorists because they will do anything and everything they can to NOT admit defeat, so there is really no reason to even try and play the game.

  25. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) October 23, 2014 at 11:34 am #

    OllieOxenFree: It will always be the absence of specific evidence that holds the smoking gun for conspiracy theorists. Always.

    They are enamoured with “secret evidence”. Just look at the few über-idjits at Gerbil Report who claim they know what secret stuff Zullo has.
    Our German cranks claim there is a secret contract every chancellor has to sign first day in office, effectively ceding any authority to the US President.
    Of course this so-called “Chancellor file” (German “Kanzlerakte”) has never been seen, only a poor forgery of an alleged document referring to the contract was circulated in crank forums (the stamps on the document and the wording made it clear it was not a real official document).

  26. avatar
    ellen October 23, 2014 at 11:53 am #

    John:

    This is where the birther lunacy leads:

    http://educate-yourself.org/cn/eisenhowerexposed29apr10.shtml

  27. avatar
    J.D. Sue October 23, 2014 at 12:33 pm #

    john: The list goes on and on.

    —-
    Indeed…

  28. avatar
    Curious George October 23, 2014 at 1:59 pm #

    “john: Really it’s the evidence that [is] Not Available” that is an interest to birthers and that’s what they want to see…”

    John, you are so amazingly fast & loose with your comments. Evidence that Supreme Commander Zullo has not released to his birther buddies is the 1961 Vital Statistics Race Code Chart. You know, the year that President Obama was born, 1961. Zullo presented the 1968 Vital Statistics Race Code Chart because it fit the narrative. But, John, don’t demand to see the 1961 race code chart. You have no interest in “all” the evidence because it destroys your imbecilic narrative. Back to the basement Johnny boy.

  29. avatar
    aarrgghh October 23, 2014 at 3:12 pm #

    “evidence that has not been seen is not evidence … but it is nonetheless proof that birfers are morons.”

    — thomas jefferson

  30. avatar
    justlw October 23, 2014 at 3:26 pm #

    RanTalbott: a. No U.S. court can compel a sovereign foreign government to release records

    Oh? How about the court of the USS RONALD REAGAN STEAMING INTO INDONESIA HARBOR!?

    I assume there is an “Indonesia Harbor” and all, but it doesn’t feel very birther to actually go look it up, so I didn’t.

  31. avatar
    Joey October 23, 2014 at 3:31 pm #

    If I was a birther and I wanted to get to inspect Barack Obama’s Certificate of Live Birth, I would put my energies into trying to convince Dr. Milton Wolf of Kansas to be the plaintiff in a lawsuit. Dr. Wolf was the Tea Party endorsed Republican primary election candidate against Senator Pat Roberts and he is a cousin on his mother’s side of Barack Obama.
    The legal standard for access to a Certificate of Live Birth is “direct and tangible interest” which Orly Taitz and others could not show. But under Hawaii Revised Statute 338-18, one of the categories of persons deemed to have a “direct snd tangible interest” in inspecting a Certificate of Live Birth is “a person having a common ancestor with the registrant.” Dr. Wolf would qualify.
    John fails to understand that Barack Obama does not control access to his vault copy birth certificate or to his original college records. No lawsuit naming Barack Obama as defendant would grant that kind of discovery. You can’t discover what doesn’t belong to the opposing party.
    Birthers would need to sue the governments of Kenya and Indonesia and when they sued Occidental College, they lost and were assessed court costs.

  32. avatar
    sfjeff October 23, 2014 at 4:18 pm #

    OllieOxenFree: And therein lies the problem, john.It will always be the absence of specific evidence that holds the smoking gun for conspiracy theorists.Always.Any evidence to the contrary must not be accepted, any source must immediately be mistrusted, any documentation completely rejected, and any official statement must be seen as just another part of the overall cover-up of the real conspiracy.

    We all remember how Birthers moaned and bitched that the ‘short form BC” was not valid because it didn’t have a doctors signature (like a ‘real Birth certificate”).

    Immediately upon release of Obama’s long form BC, Birthers declared it a fake.

    Since then Birthers have just been fumbling around for a specific reason why it must be a fake other than “It must be a fake otherwise a Black man is our President”

    Conspiracy theorists as noted above- will always put their faith in evidence that they imagine exists, and will never trust any evidence which contradicts their cherished bigotries.

  33. avatar
    Rickey October 23, 2014 at 4:34 pm #

    Joey:

    John fails to understand that Barack Obama does not control access to his vault copy birth certificate or to his original college records. No lawsuit naming Barack Obama as defendant would grant that kind of discovery. You can’t discover what doesn’t belong to the opposing party.
    Birthers would need to sue the governments of Kenya and Indonesia and when they sued Occidental College, they lost and were assessed court costs.

    John is willfully ignorant, so let’s try to define some terms for him.

    Entities which are not parties to a lawsuit can be compelled to produce relevant records, but not during the discovery phase of a lawsuit.They can, with a proper authorization, voluntarily produce such records during discovery, but they can’t be compelled to do so.

    Discovery is the period during which evidence is gathered and documented. Depositions are taken during discovery and the parties to the lawsuit may be required to exchange documents and records which they own or have in their possession. During discovery the parties may also be required to provide authorizations to allow other parties to request records from non-parties. For example, if we are talking about a bodily injury claim, a plaintiff can be required to provide HIPAA authorizations which allow the defendants to request the plaintiff’s medical records. However, there is no mechanism under which those non-parties can be forced to comply with the authorizations. If President Obama were to be required to execute a written authorization to permit a plaintiff to examine his birth records, Hawaii would be free to ignore it.

    The production of records and documents by non-parties to a lawsuit can only be compelled through subpoenas and/or court orders. This typically occurs after discovery, during the pre-trial phase of a lawsuit. In New York State, for example, with few exceptions the parties cannot issue subpoenas until all sides have agreed that the discovery phase has been concluded.

    Even then, the subpoenas have to be for relevant records and they are subject to Federal and State disclosure laws. In addition, subpoenas and court orders cannot be enforced unless the court has jurisdiction over the entities being subpoenaed. In my work we sometimes have to try to subpoena records from doctors and employers in New Jersey and Connecticut, but if they comply it is because they are nice enough to do so, not because they have to.(here I am referring to cases filed in State court, not Federal court). Likewise, the governments of Indonesia and Kenya cannot be compelled to respond to subpoenas for records about Obama.

    I could envision a scenario – albeit an unlikely scenario – under which Occidental could be compelled to comply with a subpoena for Obama’s college records, if a case ever got to that stage, but Hawaii is never, ever going to allow an outsider to come in and inspect the “vault copy” of Obama’s birth certificate. it would be like being embroiled in litigation over a Constitutional issue and demanding to have an expert examine the original Constitution to verify that it says what everyone thinks it says.

  34. avatar
    roxy7655 October 23, 2014 at 9:53 pm #

    When I hear or read someone going off on a conspiracy rant, it is always fun to see how quickly they explain the absense of evidence for their assertions.

  35. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) October 24, 2014 at 7:25 am #

    RanTalbott: No U.S. court can compel a sovereign foreign government to release records

    It doesn’t have to. The simple act that Indonesia will not turn over what birthers claim they have is enough to award them victory by default. In their twisted world, that is.

  36. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) October 24, 2014 at 7:27 am #

    ellen: This is where the birther lunacy leads:

    http://educate-yourself.org/cn/eisenhowerexposed29apr10.shtml

    I was banned from the charmingly racist blog “Fellowship of the Minds” when I wrote how Eisenhower’s BC was created under circumstances they would never tolerate for Obama.

  37. avatar
    John Potter October 24, 2014 at 9:19 am #

    Steve: You mean the school records that listed his place of birth as Hawaii?

    That’s the best part. Roxy has had plenty of time to alter every document ever produced in Indonesia. Les Birfers will never find the truth now! 😀

  38. avatar
    justlw October 24, 2014 at 12:11 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in): the charmingly racist blog “Fellowship of the Minds”

    The other fun thing about that site is that she loves to share login info to identify contrarian posters.

  39. avatar
    Crustacean October 24, 2014 at 1:23 pm #

    justlw: The other fun thing about that site is that she loves to share login info to identify contrarian posters.

    Tsk-tsk. Not a good look for a Professor Emerita. Crusty’s Law of Karma dictates that it would be appropriate to share something about dear Dr. Eowyn. If only I could find some critiques from former students of hers. If only…

    Oh, wait! Here we go:

    “She is a very critical professor and will insult you if you do not believe in what she believes in. She is by far the worst professor in Nevada, if not the United States. The only reason she is still in the political science department is because she is writing a lot of books, if not for this reason her butt would have been kicked out long ago!j” ~PSC407

    “Are you kidding me?I learned nothing! Only repeat her words back to her if you want to a good grade. Horrible professor and completely biased!” ~PSC211

    To be fair, she also got plenty of good reviews, and her overall rating from students was good compared to other professors. But I got a kick out of the “insult you if you do not believe in what she believes in” comment. I can’t imagine the horror of having a birther for a political science professor. She also bought into the Sandy Hoax nonsense hook, line, and sinker.

    What a world!

  40. avatar
    justlw October 24, 2014 at 4:21 pm #

    Heh. Wolfpack, not Rebels, I see; I went to the latter and my poli sci prof there actually wound up eventually being elected to the US House.

    One of the reviewers on the site suggested that the positive reviews of her were astroturf. There’s no evidence that the glowing reviews were faked — but can she prove that they weren’t?? 😈 😈 😈 Karma, indeed.

  41. avatar
    y_p_w October 24, 2014 at 4:59 pm #

    John Potter: I see “discovery” has taken on a magical / holy significance in birfers’ imaginations. And why not? Having never seen it, the mind naturally uses it as a blank check. Sort of a ‘god of the gaps’ device.

    Actually, “discovery” can only compel production of information known by, or documents that are in the possession of the other party. If he doesn’t have the vault copy, they can’t necessarily compel him to seek it. If he doesn’t have his school records, they can’t compel him to order them. I remember looking over a California unlawful detainer (eviction) form interrogatory. It included a lot of questions about things such as rent charged. It also had questions about documents, appraisals, etc – and compelled the owner to produce the documents if they existed and were in direct possession.

    Now I suppose they could seek a subpoena of third parties. However, they’re probably run into issues where records can’t be compelled. I’m pretty sure that the Hawaii DOH would lawyer up like they have in the past. Also – any school would probably be well versed in confidentiality laws regarding individual school records.

  42. avatar
    J.D. Reed October 24, 2014 at 8:00 pm #

    john:
    Interesting choice of words in this paragraph……

    ” all available evidence” – Does that mean there may be evidence out there that isn’t available to the contrary.

    Ask any birther…No court has ever allowed discovery.This would allow records to be obtained from Indonesia (Probably supporting an adoption) and it would allow custody of records from Kenya. (Whom Corsi said have been destroyed)

    and of course, you have to consider his college records from Occidental and Columbia for which Obama has never released even with 5 million dollar carrot from Donald Trump.And finally, any sort records Obama’s literary agent had for some crazy and unknown reason printed on the literary phamphlet that said he was born in Kenya, and error that apparently sat unnoticed for 16 years.

    Assuming these records were able to be obtained, the narrative would be very different about Obama.

  43. avatar
    ObiWanCannoli October 24, 2014 at 10:16 pm #

    Joey:
    The legal standard for access to a Certificate of Live Birth is “direct and tangible interest” which Orly Taitz and others could not show….

    I think Orly and other deranged birthers do have a direct and tangible interest to President Obama’s BC.

    Genetically, we are all 50th cousins. Yes, you and I are 50th cousins. You and Orly are 50th cousins (how does that feel?). President Obama and Orly are 50th cousins. There is your “direct and tangible interest”. I am quit surprised why the birther loonies haven’t looked at this angle.

  44. avatar
    justlw October 24, 2014 at 11:31 pm #

    ObiWanCannoli: I am quit surprised why the birther loonies haven’t looked at this angle.

    I thought of that. My conclusion was they’d have to admit they “believed in that Darwinism,” and that’d be a land bridge too far.

  45. avatar
    Notorial Dissent October 25, 2014 at 10:11 am #

    ObiWanCannoli: I think Orly and other deranged birthers do have a direct and tangible interest to President Obama’s BC.

    Genetically, we are all 50th cousins.Yes, you and I are 50th cousins.You and Orly are 50th cousins (how does that feel?).President Obama and Orly are 50th cousins.There is your “direct and tangible interest”.I am quit surprised why the birther loonies haven’t looked at this angle.

    50th cousins doesn’t meet the close relative requirement, and they still could not come up with anything valid for the direct and tangible interest requirement, so still no cookie.

  46. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 25, 2014 at 11:23 am #

    From the Hawaii Office of Information Practices:

    “U Memo 11-7
    October 13, 2010
    Vital Records

    Requester asked whether the Office of Health Statistics, Department of Health (DOH), properly denied Requester’s request for a certified copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Barack Hussein Obama II (Obama Birth Certificate) under part II of the UIPA.

    Requester asked for a copy of the Obama birth certificate citing the provision of Hawaii’s vital statistics law that makes vital records confidential, but permits copies to be provided where DOH is satisfied that the requester has a direct and tangible interest in the record, such as a “a person having a common ancestor with the registrant.” HRS § 338-18(b)(5). The Requester claimed a common ancestor of either Noah or Adam from Biblical reference or the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) from scientific theory. DOH denied access, applying HRS § 338-18(b)(5) to limit common ancestors to those shown by verifiable vital records, and rejecting a construction that included all of humankind.

    OIP found that DOH’s withholding was proper under HRS § 338-18(b)(5) and HRS § 92F-13(4). HRS § 1-15(3) (under Hawaii law, every construction of the law “which leads to an absurdity shall be rejected.”).”

    http://oip.hawaii.gov/informal-opinions-uipa/u-memo-11-7/

    Notorial Dissent: 50th cousins doesn’t meet the close relative requirement, and they still could not come up with anything valid for the direct and tangible interest requirement, so still no cookie.

  47. avatar
    RanTalbott October 25, 2014 at 11:49 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The Requester claimed a common ancestor of either Noah or Adam from Biblical reference or the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) from scientific theory. DOH denied access, applying HRS § 338-18(b)(5) to limit common ancestors to those shown by verifiable vital records, and rejecting a construction that included all of humankind.

    Shoulda found a European, and claimed Charlemagne as the common ancestor: that would’ve exxcluded about 80 or 90% of “all of humankind”. 😉

  48. avatar
    Joey October 25, 2014 at 2:52 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    From the Hawaii Office of Information Practices:

    “U Memo 11-7
    October 13, 2010
    Vital Records

    Requester asked whether the Office of Health Statistics, Department of Health (DOH), properly denied Requester’s request for a certified copy of the Certificate of Live Birth for Barack Hussein Obama II (Obama Birth Certificate) under part II of the UIPA.

    Requester asked for a copy of the Obama birth certificate citing the provision of Hawaii’s vital statistics law that makes vital records confidential, but permits copies to be provided where DOH is satisfied that the requester has a direct and tangible interest in the record, such as a “a person having a common ancestor with the registrant.” HRS § 338-18(b)(5). The Requester claimed a common ancestor of either Noah or Adam from Biblical reference or the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) from scientific theory. DOH denied access, applying HRS § 338-18(b)(5) to limit common ancestors to those shown by verifiable vital records, and rejecting a construction that included all of humankind.

    OIP found that DOH’s withholding was proper under HRS § 338-18(b)(5) and HRS § 92F-13(4). HRS § 1-15(3) (under Hawaii law, every construction of the law “which leads to an absurdity shall be rejected.”).”

    http://oip.hawaii.gov/informal-opinions-uipa/u-memo-11-7/

    And that’s why (to play devil’s advocate) I think the Tea Party conservative and Barack Obama cousin, Dr. Milton Wolf should apply for “direct and tangible interest” status under the provisions of Hawaii Revised Statutes 338-18.
    “Dr. Wolf and President Obama are related through Thomas Creekmore McCurry (1850–1939), President Obama’s great-great-grandfather, and Wolf’s great-grandfather. Barack Obama’s grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, was Wolf’s mother’s first cousin. Obama’s mother and Wolf’s mother were friends in Wichita, Kansas, where the president’s mother, Ann Dunham, was born and spent part of her childhood.”–Wikipedia
    That relationship, to me, meets the legal intent of an identifiable “common ancestor.”
    Your move, birthers, see if you can get a Tea Party conservative to help you out!

  49. avatar
    Dave B. October 25, 2014 at 7:35 pm #

    What’s not to love about that?

    Dr. Conspiracy: under Hawaii law, every construction of the law “which leads to an absurdity shall be rejected

  50. avatar
    dunstvangeet October 25, 2014 at 10:03 pm #

    Not to mention one very simple thing…

    If it ever got to the discovery phase…

    Obama would produce the exact same document he released in June of 2008, the Judge would accept it as valid proof of place of birth (because he’s required to), and the judge would declare Obama born in the United States.

    The birthers of course would ignore this, and state that the judge ruled that way because of pressure that Clinton put on the judge because Obama threatened to kill Chelsea Clinton and the new grandbaby (or something like that)…

    Of course, these people also believe that the Clintons somehow murdered thousands of people, and yet will not murder Obama if he threatened their daughter…

    I just don’t understand birthers.

  51. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 25, 2014 at 10:17 pm #

    Birthers could attempt to bring evidence that the document is defective in some way. There are fraudulent birth registrations sometimes. The birthers’ problem is that the kind of evidence they have is junk and generally inadmissible.

    dunstvangeet: Obama would produce the exact same document he released in June of 2008, the Judge would accept it as valid proof of place of birth (because he’s required to), and the judge would declare Obama born in the United States.