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The treason of images

The Treason of Images” is one of the translations of the title of a painting by the Belgian surrealist painter René Magritte. For some reason that image came to me during lunch today and I thought of its application to the blog. [If the reader is not familiar with the work, now might be a good time to follow the preceding link to the Wikipedia article to see it.] I might adapt Magritte:

The famous birth certificate. How people reproached me for it! And you, could have you gotten a passport with my birth certificate? No, it’s just a representation, is it not? So if I had written on my picture “This is a birth certificate,” I’d have been lying!

Not a birth certificate

Birthers seem confused about the difference between an object and a representation of it, a photo of it in the case of Obama’s birth certificate. No one in real life confuses the two. You cannot get wet looking at a photo of Niagara falls, but no one complains about this. They don’t curse the image for its dryness. Still birthers get all upset that Obama put a photo of his birth certificate on the White House web site, as if one could put a piece real of paper on the web somehow. (Obama’s attorney did show the actual certified copy—what one calls a birth certificate—to the press who handled it and photographed it. One could get a passport with something like that.)

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78 Responses to The treason of images

  1. avatar
    John November 21, 2014 at 4:31 pm #

    There are only 4 persons known to exist that have actually seen and handled Obama’s “Real” Birth Certificate – Lorretta Fuddy (Who is now dead), Alvin Onaka, Obama’s personal Lawyer, Judith Corley, and Savanna Gutherie. To Date, no one else has ever seen or touched Obama’s “Real” Birth Certificate.

    Not even Obama has ever seen or touched his very own birth certificate. Obama claimed he did find his birth certificate in his book “Dreams of My Father” along with Vaccination papers, Something Birther Charles Kerchner has indicated would be more consistent with 3rd World Countries, such as Kenya.

  2. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 21, 2014 at 4:48 pm #

    John, your memory is short. You yourself were the one that provided me with the link to the White House Press Gaggle, the morning that the President went on TV, a transcript that showed that everyone at the briefing was shown the certificate.

    What Obama found, as we know from the accounts of him finding it again, was the hospital souvenir certificate.

    Kerchner’s comment is nonsense. I keep my vaccination records with my birth certificate too. Both are important documents that a family would keep together in a safe place. And what does Kerchner know about Kenya anyway?

    John: To Date, no one else has ever seen or touched Obama’s “Real” Birth Certificate.

  3. avatar
    bgansel9 November 21, 2014 at 4:48 pm #

    I’ve got news for you John, you haven’t seen YOUR real birth certificate either.

  4. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater November 21, 2014 at 5:01 pm #

    John:
    There are only 4 persons known to exist that have actually seen and handled Obama’s “Real” Birth Certificate –Lorretta Fuddy (Who is now dead), Alvin Onaka, Obama’s personal Lawyer, Judith Corley, and Savanna Gutherie.To Date, no one else has ever seen or touched Obama’s “Real” Birth Certificate.

    Not even Obama has ever seen or touched his very own birth certificate.Obama claimed he did find his birth certificate in his book “Dreams of My Father” along with Vaccination papers, Something Birther Charles Kerchner has indicated would be more consistent with 3rd World Countries, such as Kenya.

    Which are more people than have seen your real birth certificate. Kerchner has no idea what he’s talking about as usual.

  5. avatar
    John November 21, 2014 at 5:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    John, your memory is short. You yourself were the one that provided me with the link to the White House Press Gaggle, the morning that the President went on TV, a transcript that showed that everyone at the briefing was shown the certificate.

    What Obama found, as we know from the accounts of him finding it again, was the hospital souvenir certificate.

    Kerchner’s comment is nonsense. I keep my vaccination records with my birth certificate too. Both are important documents that a family would keep together in a safe place. And what does Kerchner know about Kenya anyway?

    Ah! But it was Savanna Gutherie that said she felt the raised seal. I don’t recall anyone else saying that, so who knows what the others saw.

  6. avatar
    John November 21, 2014 at 5:21 pm #

    Speaking of Charles Kerchner, Here is his very recent views on Obama’s life narrative.

    http://peterboyles.podbean.com/e/peter-boyles-show-nov-20-2014-hr-4/

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 21, 2014 at 5:26 pm #

    Guthrie is not the only one to snap a photo of it.

    John: Ah! But it was Savanna Gutherie that said she felt the raised seal. I don’t recall anyone else saying that, so who knows what the others saw.

  8. avatar
    John November 21, 2014 at 6:13 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Guthrie is not the only one to snap a photo of it.

    If your referring to Scott Applewhite, his photo doesn’t show a seal on it. Besides, on his photo, the background is all blue where Savanna’s photo is all yellow. Very large contrasting effect between the 2.

  9. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 21, 2014 at 6:21 pm #

    No, I’m not referring to Scott Applewhite.

    John: If your referring to Scott Applewhite, his photo doesn’t show a seal on it.

  10. avatar
    Janny November 21, 2014 at 9:28 pm #

    What I find so hilarious is that I was adopted by my father when I was six years old. Therefore, my birth certificate is obviously not what my original birth certificate was. When I now request a certified copy of my birth certificate it, obviously, is not a copy of my original birth certificate. These birthers are so beyond the pale — and yet they continue to believe that a pdf copy of a bc can’t possibly be legitimate. It is a constant face palm for me.

  11. avatar
    Jim November 21, 2014 at 10:31 pm #

    John: If your referring to Scott Applewhite, his photo doesn’t show a seal on it.Besides, on his photo, the background is all blue where Savanna’s photo is all yellow.Very large contrasting effect between the 2.

    So john, tell me…what did that crack investigative team of Arpaio/Zullo find out from interviewing those eyewitnesses?

  12. avatar
    Anonymous November 22, 2014 at 12:20 am #

    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

  13. avatar
    gorefan November 22, 2014 at 11:34 am #

    Janny:
    What I find so hilarious is that I was adopted by my father when I was six years old.Therefore, my birth certificate is obviously not what my originalbirth certificate was.When I now request a certified copy of my birth certificate it, obviously, is not a copy of my original birth certificate.These birthers are so beyond the pale — and yet they continue to believe that a pdf copy of a bc can’t possibly be legitimate.It is a constant face palm for me.

    I have a question for you. On your adopted birth certificate, does the place of birth remain the same as on the original birth certificate?

    So if a couple from New York adopt a child born in California, the new birth certificate will list the adoption parents as the mother and father but will the place of birth still say California?

  14. avatar
    faceman November 22, 2014 at 11:54 am #

    Dr Chiyomi Fukino

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/42519951/ns/politics-more_politics/t/ex-hawaii-official-denounces-ludicrous-birther-claims/

    What do you want Obama to do? Mail a certified copy to each and every household in America? (Ah, but then, it would only be a copy, not the original) Put it on display in Capitol, between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution? (Ah, but then people wouldn’t be able to ‘touch it and feel the raised seal’) Put it somewhere where any Tom Dick or Harry could pick it up and feel it (And have some RWNJ rip it to pieces, voila, no more BC)?

    John, what’s your point? As far as I’m concerned, the “right” people have handled it. Onaka and Fukino had the authority to officially verify it.

  15. avatar
    John Reilly November 22, 2014 at 11:58 am #

    John, the racist troll, is concerned that only 4 people have seen the raised seal. Even though that is untrue, I’m wondering what level of proof would satisfy John? 40 people? 400 people? (Assuming John is correct in his math–and he is not–the State of Hawaii says the certificate is genuine. That apparently does not count.)

    If I recall my Bible correctly, it only takes 2 witnesses to sistain a death penalty conviction. Is there a reason certainty about a Black president’s birth certificate requires more than 4.

    If I’m watching a football game, do 5 officials have to see a hold to call it? What about a replay reversal?

  16. avatar
    Woodrowfan November 22, 2014 at 12:42 pm #

    sometimes I think John is just trolling us, he can’t REALLY be that dumb.

  17. avatar
    Janny November 22, 2014 at 12:54 pm #

    Gorefan:

    Yes — everything on the birth certificate is the same (hospital, city, date, etc.) — but my adopted father’s name is where my birth father’s name was. Also, it doesn’t look like my friends’ birth certificates so if birfers saw it they would say it’s a fake because it doesn’t look like other birth certificates at the time.

    I would assume the NY couple’s adopted child’s b/c would list California as place of birth. I have wondered, however, about adoptions from other countries.

  18. avatar
    gorefan November 22, 2014 at 2:51 pm #

    Janny: I have wondered, however, about adoptions from other countries.

    Hawaii law covers that point:

    §338-20.5 Adoption; foreign born persons. (a) The department of health shall establish a Hawaii certificate of birth for a person born in a foreign country and for whom a final decree of adoption has been entered in a court of competent jurisdiction in Hawaii, when it receives the following:

    (1) A properly certified copy of the adoption decree, or certified abstract thereof on a form approved by the department; and

    (2) A copy of any investigatory report and recommendation which may have been prepared by the [director of human services]; and

    (3) A report on a form to be approved by the department of health setting forth the following:

    (A) Date of assumption of custody;

    (B) Sex;

    (C) Color or race;

    (D) Approximate age of child;

    (E) Name and address of the person or persons adopting said child;

    (F) Name given to child by adoptive parent or parents;

    (G) True or probable country of birth.

    The true or probable country of birth shall be known as the place of birth, and the date of birth shall be determined by approximation. This report shall constitute an original certificate of birth; and

    (4) A request that a new certificate of birth be established.

    (b) After preparation of the new certificate of birth in the new name of the adopted person, the department of health shall seal and file the certified copy of the adoptive decree, the investigatory report and recommendation of the director of human services if any, the report constituting the original certificate of birth, and the request for a new certificate of birth. The sealed documents may be opened by the department only by an order of a court of record or when requested in accordance with section 578-14.5 or 578-15. The new certificate of birth shall show the true or probable foreign country of birth, and that the certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child for whom it is issued or for the adoptive parents. [L 1979, c 203, §3; am L 1990, c 338, §3]

    I believe other states have similar laws. BTW, this law was first written in 1979 and amended in 1990. I don’t know what the laws was before that.

  19. avatar
    HistorianDude November 22, 2014 at 3:01 pm #

    John: There are only 4 persons known to exist that have actually seen and handled Obama’s “Real” Birth Certificate – Lorretta Fuddy (Who is now dead), Alvin Onaka, Obama’s personal Lawyer, Judith Corley, and Savanna Gutherie. To Date, no one else has ever seen or touched Obama’s “Real” Birth Certificate.

    You left out at least Chiyome Fukino.

  20. avatar
    gorefan November 22, 2014 at 3:07 pm #

    PPSimmons posted to their Facebook page and twitter account the following:

    “Obama from Vegas: there are many children… like Sasha and Malia… who’s parents have papers which are not in order. We know Barry. And we think YOU should be at the HEAD of the deportation line!”

    https://www.facebook.com/ppsimmons?hc_location=timeline

    It was picked up by the Post and Email in their twitter account.

    Here is what the President actually said:

    “You know I am so inspired by the introduction by Astrid that last night I spoke directly to the American people about immigration and you heard me talk about Astrid, and if you watched her introduction just now, you heard her talk a little bit about herself. She was brought here as a little girl and grew up believing in America and in her identity as an American, just like Malia and Sasha, and then as she grew up, she found out she was undocumented, which meant she couldn’t do all the things her friend could do. She feared that she and her brother could be separated from their dad.”

    http://www.c-span.org/video/?322888-1/president-obama-remarks-nevada-immigration

    PPSimmons refers to themselves as “advancing the Kingdom of Christ”. I suspect Christ would prefer to not be associated with them.

  21. avatar
    dunstvangeet November 22, 2014 at 3:47 pm #

    HistorianDude: You left out at least Chiyome Fukino

    Not to mention Jess Henig and Joe Miller (plus whatever support staff they took with them).

    And before John objects, Obama’s real birth certificate is the birth certificate that he released in 2008. It is his “official Hawaii Birth Certificate” (Hawaii Department of Health Spokesperson Janice Okubo). In fact, the State Department would be more inclined to accept that birth certificate than the birth certificate that he released in 2011.

  22. avatar
    faceman November 22, 2014 at 4:32 pm #

    I’m surprised John hasn’t started channeling someone else we all know and love:

    ‘Okay, that’s what the records say. It doesn’t mean that its true. I want to see supporting documentation in the form of birth records, etc’.

    After all, we’re just talking about ‘all the available information’ here. What about all the unavailable information that may prove something different? That’s why we need discovery!!!

    (Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.)

  23. avatar
    Keith November 22, 2014 at 5:56 pm #

    John Reilly:
    John, the racist troll, is concerned that only 4 people have seen the raised seal.Even though that is untrue, I’m wondering what level of proof would satisfy John?40 people?400 people?(Assuming John is correct in his math–and he is not–the State of Hawaii says the certificate is genuine.That apparently does not count.)

    If I recall my Bible correctly, it only takes 2 witnesses to sistain a death penalty conviction.Is there a reason certainty about a Black president’s birth certificate requires more than 4.

    If I’m watching a football game, do 5 officials have to see a hold to call it?What about a replay reversal?

    Nah, the whole stadium saw that hold – they couldn’t miss it – it was circled in bright yellow.

    With Anu out, the Cat’s defence is gonna have to win this.

  24. avatar
    Keith November 22, 2014 at 6:04 pm #

    Keith: Nah, the whole stadium saw that hold – they couldn’t miss it – it was circled in bright yellow.

    With Anu out, the Cat’s defence is gonna have to win this.

    Day-um. Crappy weather to break in a new QB. Just have to do it on the ground, I guess.

  25. avatar
    Curious George November 23, 2014 at 8:56 am #

    gorefan

    “PPSimmons refers to themselves as “advancing the Kingdom of Christ”. I suspect Christ would prefer to not be associated with them.”

    gorefan, I believe that you’re correct. As a matter of fact Christ told the PPSimmons folks of old exactly that….

    John 2:15-16 “And He [Jesus Christ] made a scourge of cords and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the moneychangers, and overturned their tables; and to those who were selling the doves He said, “Take these things away; stop making my Father’s house a house of merchandise.”

  26. avatar
    OllieOxenFree November 23, 2014 at 8:35 pm #

    John: There are only 4 persons known to exist that have actually seen and handled Obama’s “Real” Birth Certificate – Lorretta Fuddy (Who is now dead), Alvin Onaka, Obama’s personal Lawyer, Judith Corley, and Savanna Gutherie.

    Assumption. It would have been better stated, “I only know of 4 persons…”

    John: To Date, no one else has ever seen or touched Obama’s “Real” Birth Certificate.

    Assumption. You are simply unaware of anyone else having seen or touched the birth certificate.

    John: Not even Obama has ever seen or touched his very own birth certificate.

    Assumption and speculation. You can only state that Obama was not present when the birth certificate was revealed to the press.

    John: Obama claimed he did find his birth certificate in his book “Dreams of My Father” along with Vaccination papers, Something Birther Charles Kerchner has indicated would be more consistent with 3rd World Countries, such as Kenya.

    A biased opinion not even remotely based on fact. My mother has kept birth certificates and vaccination records together for me and my brother.

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 23, 2014 at 9:57 pm #

    Of course John knows of more than that. One is Fuddy’s predecessor Fukino who inspected the vault copy, and of course Verna K. Lee handled and signed it.

    OllieOxenFree: Assumption. It would have been better stated, “I only know of 4 persons…”

  28. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG November 23, 2014 at 10:22 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Verna K. Lee

    I still remember when birthers swore that one of the reasons the BC had to be a forgery, is because someone signed “U.K. Lele” as in “Ukulele”. Then when someone name dropped Verna K Lee, the lot of em just pretended like that never happened.

  29. avatar
    The Magic M November 24, 2014 at 5:16 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Then when someone name dropped Verna K Lee, the lot of em just pretended like that never happened.

    And after the non-interview of Verna Lee by Zullo, she was dropped like a hot potato. I mean, she would’ve been a great source for birthers to verify their claims, like the numbering of birth certificates or race codes or other “anomalies”. But it seems if they did ask those questions, they did not like the answers so they never published anything except the paraphrased claim that “we didn’t make mistakes” next to the race code claims to evoke the impression Ms. Lee said “the race codes are wrong, it must be a forgery”.

  30. avatar
    The Magic M November 24, 2014 at 5:18 am #

    faceman: I’m surprised John hasn’t started channeling someone else we all know and love:

    ‘Okay, that’s what the records say. It doesn’t mean that its true.

    They have been saving that one for the case the vault BC ever came under court scrutiny and was declared legit. It’s basically their last line of defense but they haven’t yet felt they needed to fall back to it.

  31. avatar
    Curious George November 24, 2014 at 8:50 am #

    The Magic M

    “And after the non-interview of Verna Lee by Zullo, she was dropped like a hot potato. ”

    Yes, I’ve read something similar to that statement before…. I guess it’s not just the Cold Cut Posse….but also the real investigators under Arpaio.

    “Warshaw, a former police chief, has said his team of police professionals has never seen more unprofessional interviews than those conducted by Arpaio’s employees who are running the investigation. Warshaw said the interviews were replete with apologetic treatment of those being interviewed.”

    Read more: http://www.azfamily.com/news/Judge-issues-stern-warning-to-Arpaios-office-283519911.html#ixzz3Jze2T7zG

  32. avatar
    Nancy R Owens November 24, 2014 at 9:57 am #

    Because “Ukelele” was a Hendry County (FL) deputy who worked in the same office as ZulloMoore just as I did. Sh…..don’t tell no one!

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: I still remember when birthers swore that one of the reasons the BC had to be a forgery, is because someone signed “U.K. Lele” as in “Ukulele”. Then when someone name dropped Verna K Lee, the lot of em just pretended like that never happened.

  33. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 25, 2014 at 6:19 am #

    I still see the occasional ukulele objection.

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: I still remember when birthers swore that one of the reasons the BC had to be a forgery, is because someone signed “U.K. Lele” as in “Ukulele”. Then when someone name dropped Verna K Lee, the lot of em just pretended like that never happened.

  34. avatar
    John November 25, 2014 at 11:14 am #

    I have always latched on to Peter Boyle’s theory that Judy Corley went to Hawaii but never came back with a birth certificate. (It was all for show) I will tell why.

    Here is the link of the communication exchange between Obama and Hawaii Department of Health and Their response.
    http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/files/2013/05/Birth_Certificate_Request.pdf

    Reading Obama’s letter, there is a piece of information that Obama mentions that is critically important. Can you spot it?

    Next reading Judy Corley’s letter, she mentions a critical piece of information. Can you spot it?

    In Loretta Fuddy’s reponse, she also mentions a critical piece of information. Can you spot it?

    Finally in Hawaii’s Press Release, again a critical piece of information is mentioned. Can you spot it?
    http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/files/2013/05/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf

    Now reading the transcript of the White House Release of the birth certificate, you will see that something is missing. Do you know what it is?
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/04/27/press-gaggle-press-secretary-jay-carney-4272011

    Incredibly no reporter was assute enough to ask the question regarding it.

    I will reveal the answer in a future post. I’m sure some of you this board should be smart enough able to figure out why I Peter Boyles’s theory might have credence.

  35. avatar
    John Reilly November 25, 2014 at 11:19 am #

    Yes. Easy to spot. The President failed to ask for 330 million certified copies so that each and every American could have one with a raised seal. Sorry, Lupin, none for the French. Or our German friends.

  36. avatar
    The Magic M November 25, 2014 at 11:48 am #

    John: I’m sure some of you this board should be smart enough able to figure out

    You mean you are sure somebody here can twist his mind into a 5-dimensional pretzel to emulate the contorted thinking of a lunatic birther while parsing words beyond 100% magnification?

    But feel free to “enlighten” us what you “saw” and what is “missing”.

  37. avatar
    The Magic M November 25, 2014 at 12:18 pm #

    John: Obama claimed he did find his birth certificate in his book “Dreams of My Father” along with Vaccination papers, Something Birther Charles Kerchner has indicated would be more consistent with 3rd World Countries, such as Kenya.

    So if a family stores their hospital souvenir birth certificate in the same box as vaccination papers, that means they must be from Kenya? I don’t know if this is more stupid than racist or the other way around, but it’s typical birther.
    (BTW my own BC used to be stored away among papers that not even a third world country would put there.)

  38. avatar
    john November 25, 2014 at 12:23 pm #

    I’ll give a hint:

    Prior to April 27, 2011 or before Obama’s release of his long form birth certificate from Hawaii, what was one of the most common mantras repeated by birthers?

    In to that effect, Bob Bauer gave everything to the White House Press but he forgot something. What did Bob Bauer forget that no reporter IMMEDIATELY should have called him on.

  39. avatar
    Daniel November 25, 2014 at 1:08 pm #

    john: I’ll give a hint:

    John this isn’t jeopardy and you’re not Alex Trebec.

    Adults don’t play these kinds of silly games in discussions. And considering how badly these always turn out for you…

    Why don’t you just state your premise clearly and concisely, and we’ll look at it fairly and with all the objectivity we can muster.

  40. avatar
    Jim November 25, 2014 at 1:19 pm #

    john: I’ll give a hint:

    Daniel: John this isn’t jeopardy and you’re not Alex Trebec.

    What is john’s latest wet dream?

  41. avatar
    The Magic M November 25, 2014 at 1:54 pm #

    john: Prior to April 27, 2011 or before Obama’s release of his long form birth certificate from Hawaii, what was one of the most common mantras repeated by birthers?

    “If only we get to see the long long long long long form with extra cheese, this will all go away.”

  42. avatar
    Benji Franklin November 25, 2014 at 3:40 pm #

    john: In to that effect, Bob Bauer gave everything to the White House Press but he forgot something.

    John,

    At the end of the figurative day, every significant instance of legally establishing and confirming the identification of persons must only OFFICIALLY satisfy the OFFICIAL reasonable required procedural and qualifying criteria OFFICIALLY associated with running for or holding a particular office.

    There must be a sunset on office-disrupting challenges to eligibility by malcontents and other anarchists, who assert that the official approval of a candidate’s eligibility is ill-conceived, inadequately executed, or incorrect, just because such political malcontents can conceive of some fantastic scheme whereby the checks and safeguards securing the official approval, could have hypothetically been circumvented.

    Birthers like you, take such objections well past the lunatic fringe.

    Like the Cheesers do. They have always known that the Moon is made out of cheese. They likewise know that the federal government either never really landed on the Moon, and could not be sure that it is NOT made out of cheese, OR if THEY DID land men on the Moon, while there, the federal government secretly verified that it is made out of cheese, but is now lying about that to the American People. The press is complicit in this cover-up, which we know because they report no such outcome or discovery.

    If we accept the Birther standard of BETTER THAN OFFICIALLY establishing and confirming matters that bear on official ELIGIBILITY and apply it to other propositions challenging reality, then we can similarly be CERTAIN that ONLY men from the Planet Saturn are all of the short-order cooks in U.S. restaurants, OR CERTAINLY ALL COULD BE!

    And therefore, ‘everybody-knows-it’ lunatics like Birthers, can ENDLESSLY question ANY suggestion, as insufficiently proven, that ANY short-order cook in a U.S. restaurant, is definitely not a man from Saturn, and point to the failure of cooking experts and the Press to confirm their belief, as a widespread conspiracy to cover up the existence of, and general awareness about, all of these short-order cooks from Saturn.

  43. avatar
    Jim November 25, 2014 at 4:08 pm #

    Benji Franklin: And therefore, ‘everybody-knows-it’ lunatics like Birthers, can ENDLESSLY question ANY suggestion, as insufficiently proven, that ANY short-order cook in a U.S. restaurant, is definitely not a man from Saturn, and point to the failure of cooking experts and the Press to confirm their belief, as a widespread conspiracy to cover up the existence of, and general awareness about, all of these short-order cooks from Saturn.

    Now you got me hungry…could one of those Saturn cooks whip me up a grilled moon-cheese sandwich?

  44. avatar
    john November 25, 2014 at 6:03 pm #

    OK, here is even a bigger hint.

    One of the repeating mantras that birthers kept repeating about Obama and his birth certificate is that Obama could take 10 minutes and a postage stamp and could pay $10.00 to the State of Hawaii to get his birth certificate. Now do you see what is missing when Obama released his birth certificate on April 27, 2011? Everything was released to the Press and to the People except for one thing. It kept getting mentioned along the way but was never released. I am sure most birthers including Peter Boyles would have wanted to see it and it appears that no reporter at White House Press was asstute enough to realize that didn’t have it.

  45. avatar
    justlw November 25, 2014 at 6:51 pm #

    john: what was one of the most common mantras repeated by birthers?

    “Extended warranty? How can I go wrong!?”

  46. avatar
    justlw November 25, 2014 at 6:55 pm #

    john: One of the repeating mantras that birthers kept repeating about Obama and his birth certificate is that Obama could take 10 minutes and a postage stamp and could pay $10.00 to the State of Hawaii to get his birth certificate. Now do you see what is missing when Obama released his birth certificate on April 27, 2011?

    A sense of irony on the part of the repeating mantra repeating birthers — since that’s exactly what Obama’s team did in 2008?

    A pity, because I’m sure any one of us would be glad to loan them one of our working meters.

  47. avatar
    OllieOxenFree November 25, 2014 at 7:05 pm #

    john: One of the repeating mantras that birthers kept repeating about Obama and his birth certificate is that Obama could take 10 minutes and a postage stamp and could pay $10.00 to the State of Hawaii to get his birth certificate.

    … for the short form, yes, which he had already done. He had to make a special request and Fuddy made a special exception to release the long form.

  48. avatar
    Curious George November 25, 2014 at 7:19 pm #

    JOHN:
    “One of the repeating mantras that birthers kept repeating about Obama and his birth certificate is that Obama could take 10 minutes and a postage stamp and could pay $10.00 to the State of Hawaii to get his birth certificate.”

    Got it! Everything is in multiples of ten. 10 minutes and a postage stamp. $10 dollars to the state of Hawaii. $10,000 to Zullo from a reported source. It all makes sense to me! Thanks John.

  49. avatar
    Crustacean November 25, 2014 at 7:43 pm #

    That’s the second time in this thread you misspelled “ass toot”. Or maybe it’s supposed to be “ass suit”? No, wait, “ass suit” is Larry Klayman’s specialty…

    john: no reporter at White House Press was asstute (sic) enough to realize that didn’t have it.

  50. avatar
    John November 25, 2014 at 8:21 pm #

    OK, here is what was missing – It was the Receipt of Payment.

    In every correspondence, Payment is mentioned. Obama and Corley mention Payment. Fuddy and The State of Hawaii DOH mention Receipt of Payment. Interestingly enough the Receipt of Payment was never revealed so there really no way to know for certain if Corley actually received the Birth Certificate.

    The White House Press received a packet – The 2008 COLB, the Long Form Birth Certificate, the letter from Obama to Hawaii DOH, the letter from Judy Corley to DOH, and Fuddy’s letter to Obama. Fundamental to all of this was the Payment and DOH claims the Receipt of Payment was received. Why was it was never shown?

    If you create a Packet which contains a Chain of Custody (Documentation), you would think the Receipt of Payment would be enclosed. (And in fact it was according to Fuddy but it was never shown.)

  51. avatar
    Benji Franklin November 25, 2014 at 8:56 pm #

    John: OK, here is what was missing – It was the Receipt of Payment.

    And if the receipt of payment had been “shown”, Birthers would claim it was a “forgery” and another impeachable offense or felony, or another proof of the State of Hawaii conspiring to protect Obama with MORE fraudulent documentation.

    And if somehow the Birther’s standards for authenticating that shown receipt of payment, were met and that became became another 6 points scored by team ‘Obama-is-eligible’ John would be here writing something like:

    “OK, here is what was missing – It was photographs of ALL of the President’s dirty underwear!”

    and

    “I can’t believe nobody else thought to ask to see them. If you create a Presidency whose eligibility is challenged, you would think pictures of your dirty underwear would be exposed – right up front!”

  52. avatar
    OllieOxenFree November 25, 2014 at 8:57 pm #

    John: OK, here is what was missing – It was the Receipt of Payment.

    So you are willing to believe that the State of Hawaii is complicit in the cover up of falsified documents by the President, illegal conformations of validation by the HDoH to two separate state officials and a court, and corruption throughout the HDoH system……..but, a receipt… now there is the missing puzzle piece that would have taken the scam to far!

    Maybe you can start a campaign with WND to produce billboards saying, “Where’s the Receipt?”

    Or you can run off to Birther(Gerbil) Report and announce your newest conspiracy theory, and perhaps they will allow you back into their inner circle that you have been shunned from.

  53. avatar
    Jim November 25, 2014 at 9:35 pm #

    John:
    OK, here is what was missing – It was the Receipt of Payment.

    OOOOOOOOOOOH….now you got him! Just wait and see if he includes it with his tax return. Then you can claim tax fraud!

    BTW john, since only you seem interested in this, have you put in a FOIA request to HDOH? Seems that may be something you could get a copy of. 😀

  54. avatar
    Curious George November 25, 2014 at 9:41 pm #

    John
    November 25, 2014
    “OK, here is what was missing – It was the Receipt of Payment.

    In every correspondence, Payment is mentioned. Obama and Corley mention Payment. Fuddy and The State of Hawaii DOH mention Receipt of Payment. Interestingly enough the Receipt of Payment was never revealed so there really no way to know for certain if Corley actually received the Birth Certificate. ”

    So John Boy, did Zullo issue a receipt of payment for the $10,000 check? We know, even without issuance of a Zullo receipt, that he indeed received a $10,000 check.

    John, you are such an oxygen waster. Try harder next time!

  55. avatar
    Dave B. November 25, 2014 at 9:51 pm #

    Can this guy really be this dumb?

    John: OK, here is what was missing – It was the Receipt of Payment.

  56. avatar
    dunstvangeet November 25, 2014 at 10:51 pm #

    And John, if he had done that, this is exactly the document that he’d receive back: http://origin.factcheck.org/Images/image/birth_certificate_images/birth_certificate_2.jpg

  57. avatar
    John Reilly November 26, 2014 at 12:33 am #

    I do not see anywhere that “receipt of payment” is a defined term, although our resident racist troll has converted a reference to “receipt” into a real document. . For all we know, no receipt was even given. Or a receipt was given, and Ms. Corley did what I do with receipts, I attach them to my expense report so our bookkeeper can reimburse me and bill the client for expenses. One assumes that the law firm billed the President (or someone) for the time and travel expenses. Does John wish to see that bill?

  58. avatar
    The Magic M November 26, 2014 at 6:39 am #

    John: Why was it was never shown?

    Why would it have to have been?
    Why wasn’t a video shown that shows how the stamp was placed on the letter sent to Hawaii?
    Why didn’t they attach testimony from the customs guy at the airport that the lawyer actually boarded the plane?
    Why didn’t they publish the documents proving how the plane ticket was paid for?
    Why didn’t they bring the pilot who flew the lawyer with the BC to and back to the press conference and had him confirm the lawyer was actually aboard the plane?

    I mean, it’s SO OBVIOUS that any legit Prez would have done that! So this clearly proves Obama was borned in Kenyonesia as a gay Muslim communazi!

  59. avatar
    The Magic M November 26, 2014 at 6:41 am #

    john: I am sure most birthers including Peter Boyles would have wanted to see it

    “IF HE ONLY SHOWED THE RECEIPT, THIS WOULD ALL GO AWAY!”

    Stop me if you think you’ve heard this one before. *smh*

  60. avatar
    john November 26, 2014 at 6:53 am #

    John Reilly:
    I do not see anywhere that “receipt of payment” is a defined term, although our resident racist troll has converted a reference to “receipt” into a real document..For all we know, no receipt was even given.Or a receipt was given, and Ms. Corley did what I do with receipts, I attach them to my expense report so our bookkeeper can reimburse me and bill the client for expenses.One assumes that the law firm billed the President (or someone) for the time and travel expenses.Does John wish to see that bill?

    The Receipt of Payment was a critical piece of documentation that was never shown and no one ever askd to see it and no reason wasn’t given why it was shown. Ordinarily I would n’t demand to see everything like the airline ticket Judy Corely purchased to go out to Hawaii. However, the Receipt of payment was much different. It was a key piece of chain of custody documentation that was included by Fuddy herself with the birth certificates that were given to Judy Corely. The White House attempted to give a packet containing all the key pieces of documentation provided both from the White House and from the Hawaii DOH. The Receipt of Payment was left out. I would view this as a big red flag on why this key piece of evidence was not provided especially when you trying to establish a credible chain of custody.

  61. avatar
    Hektor November 26, 2014 at 7:25 am #

    No john, it is not a key piece of evidence, nor is it a “red flag.” It’s something you have decided posthumously, and very posthumously I may add, as an imaginary standard that President Obama had to meet and failed so you can just magically handwave the rest of the evidence that you simply don’t want to be true away. I note that such a standard is something that you hold no other individual to and has no basis in reality whatsoever. One can easily have a document like a passport, driver’s license or birth certificate and not hold on to the receipt. If I got into an accident, the preponderance of evidence of whether I was driving with a forged license or not comes from the government verifying said license not from whether I can provide the officer at the scene a copy of my renewal receipt. Those things could be forged too you know.

  62. avatar
    b November 26, 2014 at 8:03 am #

    So Johnny Boy,

    Have you asked the SOS of Arizona for his receipt..? You know the receipt for the confirmation of facts on the BC…..? You know the one he received from Hawai’i which was sufficient for him to turn around and say he was fully satisfied as to the birthplace of the President…. You know the sealed and certified one that ended with the statement that all the items on the image provided are whole and accurate……

    That receipt…?

  63. avatar
    bovril November 26, 2014 at 8:06 am #

    So Johnny Boy,

    Have you asked the SOS of Arizona for his receipt..? You know the receipt for the confirmation of facts on the BC…..? You know the one he received from Hawai’i which was sufficient for him to turn around and say he was fully satisfied as to the birthplace of the President…. You know the sealed and certified one that ended with the statement that all the items on the image provided are whole and accurate……

    That receipt…?

  64. avatar
    OllieOxenFree November 26, 2014 at 8:09 am #

    john: I would view this as a big red flag on why this key piece of evidence was not provided especially when you trying to establish a credible chain of custody.

    Stop it John. Just stop it. Never in a million years would you ever accept anything as innocuous as a receipt as proof of anything other than yet another piece of evidence that the HDoH is complicit in the cover-up of Obama’s identification. Never!

    – You don’t accept the short form as valid
    – You don’t accept the long form as valid
    – You don’t accept any statements by Hawaii State officials as valid
    – You don’t accept any verification by the HDoH as valid
    – You don’t accept any eye witnesses to the documentation as valid
    – You don’t accept any of the Xerox Workcenter studies as valid
    – You don’t accept the testimony of Brian Reilly about Zullo or the CCP as valid

    Please spare us this ridiculous notion that you would ever accept a receipt as valid, had it ever been or ever will be produced, to satisfy yet another point on the long list of birther conspiracy crap.

  65. avatar
    Curious George November 26, 2014 at 9:00 am #

    JOHN BOY……Please post a copy of your receipt for the purchase of your computer so that we know that it truly is you posting all of this tripe.

  66. avatar
    John Reilly November 26, 2014 at 9:11 am #

    “The Receipt of Payment ”

    Our resident racist troll continues to capitalize words in a phrase like they are a term of art.

  67. avatar
    Arthur November 26, 2014 at 9:28 am #

    OllieOxenFree: Please spare us this ridiculous notion that you would ever accept a receipt as valid, had it ever been or ever will be produced, to satisfy yet another point on the long list of birther conspiracy crap.

    John is like a certain character from “Lord of the Rings.” There are moments when what’s left of his critical thinking seems to be leading him to reject birtherism and embrace reality. Unfortunately, he’s always seduced by the bigoted delusions of the conspiracy that spawned him–just as Smeagol is pulled back to malevolence by the dark desires of Gollum.

  68. avatar
    The Magic M November 26, 2014 at 9:53 am #

    john: However, the Receipt of payment was much different. It was a key piece of chain of custody documentation

    No, it wasn’t. A “chain of custody” (I suppose you have to throw away your RWNJ dictionary first) means that a document has been, at any point in time, in the documentable possession of an identifiable person. It does not, however, include any “auxiliary” documentation like who paid what when for the copies, only who had the copies in his/her possession when (so you have a case of “A gave it to B who gave it to C” and not “C cannot say how he got the document from A, likely via B whose identity is unknown”).

    But keep making up new meanings for terms of art like “chain of custody”. (For which, in fact, the examples I gave are much more relevant than a payment receipt which does not state who was actually handed the documents, only who paid for them.)

  69. avatar
    John Reilly November 26, 2014 at 10:09 am #

    IANAL, but chain of custody refers to proof of a piece of evidence, like a gun found at a crime scene. There is no chain of custody for a document which is sealed, like the long form birth cetificate. No one need explain how or where it was obtained. That the White House told a story giving details is interesting, but without legal significance. SOS Bennett, for example, accepted the certification he received without insisting on knowing how it got to his desk. If our resident racist troll wants to insist that a sealed document cannot be admitted into evidence without proof that the lawyer who acquired it is not a deadbeat, he ought to cite to something in the rules of evidence.

  70. avatar
    Jim November 26, 2014 at 10:40 am #

    Isn’t john cute? Like a 2-year-old learning a new cuss word, has no idea what it means but it sounds good so he uses it. You know john, there are law dictionaries online to help you with those terms you don’t understand. It would sure help people take you more seriously if you knew what you were talking about when using legal terms. Let me give you a couple of examples…

    Chain of Custody
    The movement and location of physical evidence from the time it is obtained until the time it is presented in court.
    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/chain+of+custody

    Custody
    The care, possession, and control of a thing or person. The retention, inspection, guarding, maintenance, or security of a thing within the immediate care and control of the person to whom it is committed. The detention of a person by lawful authority or process.
    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/custody

    Now read up john and learn…and if you’re a good boy and do well with your studies I’ll give you a lollipop. I’d give you a sucker, but you’ve already proven to be one.

  71. avatar
    Curious George November 26, 2014 at 11:14 am #

    JOHN…..
    ” I would view this as a big red flag…….”

    JOHN BOY….You’re missing the biggest “red flag ” of them all…..former used car salesman and volunteer posse member Mike Zullo and the $10,000 “gift” from a “source.” How does an unpaid volunteer posse member, who Shurf Joe dishonestly refers to as a “Deputy” in the Alan Colmes interview, suddenly get $10,000 from a birther source?

    The way I figure it JOHN, you’re totally delusional in your defense of team Arpaio / Zullo .

  72. avatar
    dunstvangeet November 26, 2014 at 4:17 pm #

    John’s insistance on the receipt is basically this scenario…

    POLICE OFFICER: “I think put that smoking gun into an evidence bag, sealed that evidence bag, and checked it into the Evidence Locker. They then transported that evidence into our evidence storage unit.”

    DEFENSE ATTORNEY: “Do you have the receipt for the gas was used to make that transportation?”

    POLICE OFFICER: “No.”

    DEFENSE ATTORNEY: “Ah-ha! Then it is my supposition that since you don’t have the receipt, that the evidence cannot really be proven that it was ever transported… I therefore say that there is a break in the chain of evidence, and therefore the evidence is inadmissible.”

    JUDGE: “Overruled.”

  73. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater November 26, 2014 at 5:00 pm #

    But we haven’t seen the folder that they put the documents in to keep them safe. That’s obviously a red flag! And we never saw the plane tickets. Or proof that Hawaii actually exists.

  74. avatar
    Notorial Dissent November 27, 2014 at 1:06 pm #

    John’s problem, well the one currentest, is that the BC, LF or otherwise, is NOT a piece of evidence picked up off of of the street, it is a certified, signed and sealed legal document, THAT IS SELF PROVING. There is no need or point in a chain of custody. In other words it is what it is by virtue of what it is and the law. So it doesn’t matter how it came to be where it now is, it is what it is, and as HI has repeatedly attested to not only its validity, but the information on it, the matter is otherwise DOA. John’s currentest delusions notwithstanding. Incidentally the receipt would most probably prove nothing, since if HI is like my home state, you get a little piece of register tape that maybe says who issued it, my last one didn’t, and the dollar amount received.

  75. avatar
    Lupin November 28, 2014 at 4:51 am #

    I think we all realize that “john” is a troll, pure and simple.

  76. avatar
    The Magic M November 28, 2014 at 4:53 am #

    Notorial Dissent: There is no need or point in a chain of custody.

    But you know what birthers make of that in their Catch-22: “If there was no need, why did they do it?” It’s always “Why didn’t they do it? Oh, they did? Then why did they do it?” with them. Remember those especially funny crazy birthers who said, after the release of the COLB/LFBC, “why did he release it if birthers were just crazy people, he would’ve ignored them if they were”.

  77. avatar
    The Magic M November 28, 2014 at 4:55 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: But we haven’t seen the folder that they put the documents in to keep them safe.

    Just ask Romney, he’s got binders full of everything. 😉

  78. avatar
    The Magic M November 28, 2014 at 4:56 am #

    dunstvangeet: JUDGE: “Overruled.”

    But in Birtherstan, it would go:

    JUDGE: “Sustained. I hereby order the arrest of the witness, the DA and the President to be tried for treason and perjury and herewith expel their home state from the union! I also appoint the defendant special prosecutor in this action with the license to kill.”