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Dr. Conspiracy to birther: You need to go to church

I don’t bring up religion much here or on birther sites, but I did yesterday at Birther Report. “Charles Mountain”1 was speaking, and directed this reply to me more or less out of nowhere:

charlesmountain: Yo’ what up, sniveling faggot, soul-less maggot…

Are you getting ready to pull a verified Selective Service Card with a two digit year stamp out of your azz…?

I’m sure we can arrange a neon pink noose for ya…

So I offered an invitation:

Dr. Conspiracy: How about you come to church with me next Sunday instead?

And this is how it ended:

charlesmountain: Church…! LOL! You need to hang!

X D

Only a soul-less maggot can look at himself in the mirror everyday knowing he’s intentionally decieving (sic) millions of Americans…

Dr. Conspiracy: Only, I am not intentionally deceiving anyone. Really, you need to go to church. You’ve got too much hate.

I don’t know anything about “mountain’s” religious views, or those of most of the birthers, except Nathan Bickel and some others who have a religious vocation. But there are some principles of the Christian religion that I value, that I find mostly lacking in birtherism, and those are:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. ‘ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
(ESV) Matthew 5:43-48


You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life of your neighbor:I am the Lord.
(ESV) Leviticus 19:16


“You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself:I am the Lord.
(ESV) Leviticus 19:17-18


Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people.
(ESV) Titus 3:1-2

I would be hypocritical if I claimed to always follow those principles I value, and in particular I am not all that proud of some of the remarks I made towards RS1_ which were inarguably quarrelsome, and far from gentle. Nevertheless, I care and the birthers seem to think that they are justified acting contrary to these principles.


1I had assumed that “charlesmountain” was Charles Kerchner, someone who has gone under the pseudonym of “mountain goat” but he says not, so I have updated the article to remove the association.

I believe that the commandment against false witness not only requires that one speak the truth as they know it, but take some care to get things right, which I failed to do in this case. Being hasty is one of my personal shortcomings.

150 Responses to Dr. Conspiracy to birther: You need to go to church

  1. avatar
    Joey January 10, 2015 at 3:27 pm #

    I’ve noticed a lot of birthers really losing it psychologically lately (more than ever) as the reality of John Boehner’s reelection as Speaker and the fact that even with the Senate majority, the Republicans would need 13 Senate Democrats to vote guilty to remove the President from office via impeachment.
    President Obama finishing his term despite A/Z Day “revelations” is beginning to sink in and they are in the “anger” stage of grief.

  2. avatar
    Janny January 10, 2015 at 3:55 pm #

    I think it’s really disgusting that a retired Navy commander [note that the article identified the writer in error. Doc] speaks like a teenager with a limited education and vocabulary. But, then, GR has plenty of them. Especially people like Barry Soetoro who seems to be much more interested in homosexuality than birth certificates. It appears none of them have any shame.

  3. avatar
    alg January 10, 2015 at 3:58 pm #

    Joey: I’ve noticed a lot of birthers really losing it psychologically lately (more than ever) as the reality of John Boehner’s reelection as Speaker and the fact that even with the Senate majority, the Republicans would need 13 Senate Democrats to vote guilty to remove the President from office via impeachment. President Obama finishing his term despite A/Z Day “revelations” is beginning to sink in and they are in the “anger” stage of grief.

    I share your observation. The level of irreconcilable frustration, anger and hate on the part of these individuals is over the top. I especially think that the permanently unrealized dream of “gut wrenching and universe shattering” disclosures is beginning to sink in and not in a good way. The Obama birth certificate cottage industry is evaporating before their very eyes.

  4. avatar
    Notorial Dissent January 10, 2015 at 4:08 pm #

    FWIW, I have noticed that those who make the most noise about being proper Christians seldom are.

  5. avatar
    Joey January 10, 2015 at 4:10 pm #

    alg: I share your observation.The level of irreconcilable frustration, anger and hate on the part of these individuals is over the top. I especially think that the permanently unrealized dream of “gut wrenching and universe shattering” disclosures is beginning to sink in and not in a good way.The Obama birth certificate cottage industry is evaporating before their very eyes.

    Its only taken eight years. Barack Obama first announced his candidacy for President on February 10, 2007.

  6. avatar
    Pete January 10, 2015 at 4:49 pm #

    “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”

    Exodus 20:16

  7. avatar
    Pete January 10, 2015 at 4:52 pm #

    This idea of not bearing false witness has particular application in the judicial sense: You shall not falsely accuse someone of committing a crime, when no crime has been committed.

    This is routinely violated by birthers, every day.

    Along with this goes a duty to verify your evidence. If your evidence is nonexistent, then you’re making a false accusation and violating the law of God.

  8. avatar
    Pete January 10, 2015 at 5:00 pm #

    Birthers loudly claim to be patriots, but routinely call for doing things that would violate our laws and the Constitution they claim to value.

    Some of them claim to be Christians, but they routinely violate fundamental moral and Christian principles.

  9. avatar
    Pete January 10, 2015 at 5:01 pm #

    A few claim to be experts, while violating all principles of professionalism.

    And one or two claim to be law enforcement, while violating the principles of that profession.

  10. avatar
    Paul January 10, 2015 at 6:26 pm #

    Pete:
    Birthers loudly claim to be patriots, but routinely call for doing things that would violate our laws and the Constitution they claim to value.

    Some of them claim to be Christians, but they routinely violate fundamental moral and Christian principles.

    I suspect most birthers and most of the right wing in general are religious, and I suspect they believe that God is on their side. I sometimes wish I believed in God, just because it would be so delicious to see the looks of shock and surprise on those smug bastards’ faces when they finally meet him and realize how wrong they were about almost everything.

  11. avatar
    J.D. Reed January 10, 2015 at 7:02 pm #

    “Do not spread false reports. — Exodus 23:1
    This verse implies an obligation to check out what you hear or read before passing it on. It doesn’t say, “Do not spread reports you know to be false.” Whether you know it’s false or not, if you spread a report that’s false, you’re in conflict with this command.

  12. avatar
    John Reilly January 10, 2015 at 7:03 pm #

    Old joke.

    Conspiracy theorist goes to heaven. St. Peter tells him because of his virtuous life he not only gets into heaven but he gets to ask God one question. He is ushered into God’s presence and asks, “Who killed John Kennedy?”

    God replies, “Lee Harvey Oswald. He acted alone.”

    Conspiracy theorist responds, “Wow. I know the conspiracy was big. I just didn’t realize how big and how high it reached.”

  13. avatar
    CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret) January 10, 2015 at 7:39 pm #

    Mr. Conspiracy: Re your article above, I suggest you correct the record prominently, boldly, and promptly immediately. I am not the User ID “charlesmountain”. Why did you not confront the person at BirtherReport.com with your accusations before writing the above? Do not bear false witness accusing me of being someone else. CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret) – ProtectOurLiberty.org

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 10, 2015 at 8:15 pm #

    I have corrected my article. In fact I corrected it just before I read your comment based on an email I got from RC.

    I believe that the commandment against false witness not only requires that one speak the truth as they know it, but take some care to get things right, which I failed to do in this case.

    My apologies.

    CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret): Mr. Conspiracy: Re your article above, I suggest you correct the record prominently, boldly, and promptly immediately.

  15. avatar
    CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret) January 10, 2015 at 8:21 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I have corrected my article. My apologies.

    Please correct/edit the blog article URL for the article which still contains the false accusation as part of the URL name. CDR Kerchner (Ret)

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 10, 2015 at 8:26 pm #

    I just did.

    CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret): Please correct/edit the blog article URL for the article which still contains the false accusation as part of the URL name. CDR Kerchner (Ret)

  17. avatar
    CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret) January 10, 2015 at 8:31 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I just did.

    I see the corrections in the article. But I do not see the correction in the URL. This is what I see in my browser URL page line “http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2015/01/dr-conspiracy-to-kerchner-you-need-to-go-to-church/” My name is still there in the URL for your posting.

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 10, 2015 at 8:34 pm #

    It didn’t take the first time for some reason, I think I had to update the URL and then the article. Anyway it’s right now.

    You may have to refresh…

    The article didn’t go out to “Before it’s news.” I also checked the site RSS feed and it has the updated version. I am now reviewing past articles and blog comments.

    CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret): I see the corrections in the article. But I do not see the correction in the URL. This is what I see in my browser URL page line

  19. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 10, 2015 at 8:35 pm #

    That didn’t go well.

  20. avatar
    Rickey January 10, 2015 at 8:46 pm #

    CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret):
    Mr. Conspiracy:Re your article above, I suggest you correct the record prominently, boldly, and promptly immediately.I am not the User ID “charlesmountain”. Why did you not confront the person at BirtherReport.com with your accusations before writing the above? Do not bear false witness accusing me of being someone else.CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret) – ProtectOurLiberty.org

    And you are the person who claimed in 2011 that “Everybody in Congress knows Obama’s Birth Certificate is forged.”

    You also claimed that Congress investigated John McCain’s eligibility in 2008. In fact, no such investigation ever was undertaken.

    Have you ever retracted those false statements?

    The difference between us and birthers is that we admit it when we are proven to be wrong.

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 10, 2015 at 8:59 pm #

    The Kerechner/mountaingoat association was discussed in the open thread:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2014/09/the-occasional-open-thread-picking-up-the-pieces

    Dr. Ken made it, and then gorefan questioned it.

    I have updated gorefan’s comment with a note from me about tonight’s denial.

  22. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG January 10, 2015 at 9:04 pm #

    @ Kerchner:
    That’s the difference between you and Doc. Doc admits and corrects his mistakes. You however, do not. And no, I don’t consider you worthy of respect, just because you’re a vet. Frankly I think vets like you are a Goddamned disgrace. If I had it my way, there would be a way to retroactively strip you of your rank, V.A. and all the stuff that goes with it.

    You’re a bit like my insufferable Jackass of an uncle, except he doesn’t pimp out his former rank to sound all big and important, when he says stupid crap.

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 10, 2015 at 9:07 pm #

    That’s mostly true, but a birther, who shall remain nameless for his protection, made a comment in a BTR chat room recently saying that the Xerox 7655 evidence was damning against Zullo.

    I don’t know if the comparison is quite fair because the Birthers have been hugely wrong on many things, while the other side has been wrong rarely and on small things. It’s easier to admit small mistakes. Plus for the birthers, it is not so much admitting that they are wrong, but actually believing it.

    Mike Zullo is the chief among those who have said things that were not true and never corrected anything.

    Rickey: The difference between us and birthers is that we admit it when we are proven to be wrong.

  24. avatar
    gorefan January 10, 2015 at 10:34 pm #

    “Dr. Ken made it, and then gorefan questioned it. I have updated gorefan’s comment with a note from me about tonight’s denial.”

    I looked at your update but I’m now confused. Which is true?

    A) Kerchner equals mountaingoat

    B) Kerchner does not equal charlesmountain

    C) Kerchner does not equal mountaingoat

    D) Both A & B

    E) Both B & C

    F) none of the above

    G) All of the above

  25. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 10, 2015 at 11:38 pm #

    D) Both A & B

    gorefan: I looked at your update but I’m now confused. Which is true?

  26. avatar
    Craig HS January 11, 2015 at 12:52 am #

    Or at least… Charles Kirchner has Denied being “charlesmountain”.

    Being that Birthers have invested heavily in sockpuppets and imaginary evidence, I’m not certain we can entirely rule it out.

    If that’s me casting aspersions on Kirchner’s honesty and character, so be it. Sleep with pigs, get covered in slime.

  27. avatar
    wrecking ball January 11, 2015 at 1:48 am #

    i enjoyed this comment on GR following a “charlesmountain” meltdown:

    “Somehow the good guys [ birthers ] end up looking like angry maniacs while the trolls [ doc, foggy ] seem like calm, rational people – even though they’re claiming the most absurd things.”

  28. avatar
    RanTalbott January 11, 2015 at 2:36 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: My apologies.

    I think the Truly Christian Thing To Do™ is, not just to apologize, but to make amends by starting a Paypal fund to hire a crane to remove the multiple beams from Kerchner’s eyes.

    Although there’s also a “WWJD?” case to be made for scourging him and driving him from the temple of public discourse…

  29. avatar
    Lupin January 11, 2015 at 3:29 am #

    CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret):
    Mr. Conspiracy:Re your article above, I suggest you correct the record prominently, boldly, and promptly immediately.I am not the User ID “charlesmountain”. Why did you not confront the person at BirtherReport.com with your accusations before writing the above? Do not bear false witness accusing me of being someone else.CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret) – ProtectOurLiberty.org

    Technically speaking, we only have YOUR word that you are not “charlesmountain”.

    I for one am not convinced; I can very well imagine you slumming (linguistically speaking) and trolling; there is also the charles – mountain – goat semantic connection.

    How about some documentary evidence? Like a signed affidavit by the website owner verifying that you do not share the same IP address, and a signed affidavit by the IP administrator that “charlesmountain” is not you, to start with?

    I’m stunned you expect us to trust your word in this matter when you have proved in the past quite capable of disseminating obvious lies.

  30. avatar
    interestedbystander January 11, 2015 at 7:37 am #

    Doc – lol at “haste” being one of your shortcomings!

  31. avatar
    wrecking ball January 11, 2015 at 8:23 am #

    i can see why kerchner is adamant to clarify that he isn’t “charlesmountain”, a recent quote of his from GR:

    “Islam has contributed little if anything to the betterment of mankind. All one has to do is look around and see the many technological and medical advancements of white Europeans.

    From the steam engine to radio and vaccines that eradicated disease and improved and extended the life expectancy…

    Thank a White Male”

  32. avatar
    Yoda January 11, 2015 at 9:15 am #

    Using Birther logic, Kerchner has the burden of proving that he is not Charlesmountain. Has he produced any?

  33. avatar
    alg January 11, 2015 at 9:32 am #

    “How about some documentary evidence? Like a signed affidavit by the website owner verifying that you do not share the same IP address, and a signed affidavit by the IP administrator that “charlesmountain” is not you, to start with?”

    Oh….you mean like the signed verification from the State of Hawaii that the President’s LFBC posted on the White House website is accurate and authentic?!?

    If an official signed verification from the State of Hawaii is not good enough for Mr. Kerchner, why would a signed affidavit from Birther Report be good enough for us?!?

    All though frankly I couldn’t care less if Charles Kerchner and charlesmountain are one in the same, because they’re both vile racist idiots.

  34. avatar
    realist January 11, 2015 at 9:42 am #

    I don’t believe charlesmountain is Kerchner. I didn’t believe he was before Charlie came along demanding that Doc make a retraction. Which Doc had already done, BTW.

    I do find it ironic, even beyond ironic, that Kerchner can come to Doc’s site and demand a correction of anything when, for the past several years, he (Kerchner) has done little else than spread blatant lies about the president and presidential eligibility.

    Hypocrite doesn’t even begin to cover it.

  35. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG January 11, 2015 at 10:33 am #

    Speaking of people being mistaken for others. You guys gotta see what BSE’s latest pet conspiracy is! It’s a laugh riot. I won’t spoil it for you.

  36. avatar
    DaveH January 11, 2015 at 10:36 am #

    As ridiculous as the name sounds, Charles Mountain is a real name and there are several people with that name here in the United States. My bet is charlesmountain IS Charles Mountain. Do a search on Intelius using the name. There’s one down in Alabama that could possibly fit the profile of a birther.

  37. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 11, 2015 at 11:43 am #

    CDR Charles Kerchner (Ret): Please correct/edit the blog article URL for the article which still contains the false accusation as part of the URL name. CDR Kerchner (Ret)

    Oh quit your whining. On air you claimed that FDR shot down the bonus army that actually took place during the administration of Herbert Hoover. When you were corrected on it you still claimed oh that was another bonus army march that FDR did it to. You also say you remembered it happening.

  38. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 11, 2015 at 11:44 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Dr. Ken made it, and then gorefan questioned it.

    I have updated gorefan’s comment with a note from me about tonight’s denial.

    The reason I made it is because in one of Volin’s show mountain goat was repeatedly spamming charles kerchner links, repeating charles kerchner nonsense and when I kept calling him Kerchner in the chat he responded to it.

  39. avatar
    Pip January 11, 2015 at 11:58 am #

    One word: al-jebr. AKA: algebra.

    A necessary foundation of all those little things contributing to the “betterment of mankind,” such little things as engines, radios and vaccines.

    wrecking ball:
    i can see why kerchner is adamant to clarify that he isn’t “charlesmountain”, a recent quote of his from GR:

    “Islam has contributed little if anything to the betterment of mankind. All one has to do is look around and see the many technological and medical advancements of white Europeans.

    From the steam engine to radio and vaccines that eradicated disease and improved and extended the life expectancy…”

  40. avatar
    Rickey January 11, 2015 at 12:10 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    I don’t know if the comparison is quite fair because the Birthers have been hugely wrong on many things, while the other side has been wrong rarely and on small things. It’s easier to admit small mistakes. Plus for the birthers, it is not so much admitting that they are wrong, but actually believing it.

    Mike Zullo is the chief among those who have said things that were not true and never corrected anything.

    I believe that the difference has less to do with the size of the mistakes and more to do with a genuine interest in the truth.

    We are genuinely interested in the truth, whereas the birthers are interested only in their anti-Obama agenda. I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012, but if real proof surfaced that he is not a natural-born citizen I would fully support his removal from office.

    And of course those who have truth on their side and less likely to be hugely wrong and therefore have fewer apologies to make.

  41. avatar
    Rickey January 11, 2015 at 12:21 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Oh quit your whining.On air you claimed that FDR shot down the bonus army that actually took place during the administration of Herbert Hoover.When you were corrected on it you still claimed oh that was another bonus army march that FDR did it to.You also say you remembered it happening.

    That’s some memory that Kerchner has, considering that he was about four months old when FDR died.

  42. avatar
    Rickey January 11, 2015 at 12:31 pm #

    Pip:

    One word: al-jebr.AKA: algebra.

    A necessary foundation of all those little things contributing to the “betterment of mankind,” such little things as engines, radios and vaccines.

    Also, Abu al-Qasim Khalaf ibn al-Abbas Al-Zahrawi (936–1013), a Sunni Muslim, is considered the be the “father of modern surgery.”

  43. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 11, 2015 at 12:58 pm #

    Rickey: That’s some memory that Kerchner has, considering that he was about four months old when FDR died.

    Yep he said he personally hasn’t seen such corruption since FDR ordered the army to fire on the bonus army

  44. avatar
    wrecking ball January 11, 2015 at 1:13 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Speaking of people being mistaken for others. You guys gotta see what BSE’s latest pet conspiracy is! It’s a laugh riot. I won’t spoil it for you.

    WOW!!!!!!…… the stupid is truly inconceivable. i get that BSE has mental issues but the fact that other birthers are entertaining the theory is amazing.

  45. avatar
    bovril January 11, 2015 at 2:15 pm #

    You have to remember with BullSh@t Extreme, EVERYTHING is a conspiracy.

    Sun comes up, holographic fake, sun goes down gun grabbing false flag by DARPA, BSE gets a cold , Obama is personally infecting him with Ebola, BSE doesn’t get a cold, proof that his PhotoShops have protected him from the regime……..A scary dark and stupid place is the alleged mind of BSE

  46. avatar
    J. Edward Tremlett January 11, 2015 at 3:22 pm #

    One thing: often when you show your enemies love, rather than hate, they fall apart because they don’t know how to handle it.

  47. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2015 at 5:08 pm #

    Here is some sample for “Charlesmountain” from Dr. Kate’s View in 2010:

    “We have to keep pushing in from all directions. For those that have time, call your congressman…Senator…Hawaii… Abercrumbie. Just keep calling..and calling. Call General Horst..e-mail and call the White House. Hound every news media outlet. Barrage them with emails, phone calls and voice mails. Question the fake COLB, the phony Social Security numbers. Print flyers hand ‘em out. Organize like the left does. Get a 10,000 people to march on Washington!, Organize Birther Flash Mobs! Think of what is at stake here! Think about what a tremendous body blow to the left if we can get some traction and force the issue. Imagaine if we can remove the Great Pretender from office through an act of Congress and reduce all this Progressive legislation to null and void. Send the Democrats to the political wilderness for the next 30 years. Completely expose the MSM as nothing more than state sponsored media biased worthless garbage. End the 100 year Socialist progressive stealth creep. There is so much to gain..Push! Have confidence Patriots because you are on the side of truth! History shows us that the truth and righteousness always wins the day! Nixon couldn’t cover up Watergate..Obummer can’t dodge this issue much longer, the cracks and strain are starting to show. America has alway been victorious in the face of adversity, why should we not expect it now. I am at your service America…..”

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: The reason I made it is because in one of Volin’s show mountain goat was repeatedly spamming charles kerchner links, repeating charles kerchner nonsense and when I kept calling him Kerchner in the chat he responded to it.

  48. avatar
    gorefan January 11, 2015 at 5:11 pm #

    DaveH: My bet is charlesmountain IS Charles Mountain.

    I though Billy was a mountain and Ethel was a tree growing off of his shoulder.

  49. avatar
    Pete January 11, 2015 at 5:24 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    That didn’t go well.

    No, that didn’t go well — but you also (inadvertently) illustrated the vast difference between yourself and the birthers.

    When you’ve made a mistake, or inadvertently done what you exhort birthers not to do, and it’s pointed out to you, you correct it.

    Birthers, in general are not correctable. They never admit to their errors. They’re not teachable.

    That, I suppose, is what makes them birthers.

  50. avatar
    Pete January 11, 2015 at 5:28 pm #

    realist: I do find it ironic, even beyond ironic, that Kerchner can come to Doc’s site and demand a correction of anything when, for the past several years, he (Kerchner) has done little else than spread blatant lies about the president and presidential eligibility.

    Hypocrite doesn’t even begin to cover it.

    +1.

  51. avatar
    bovril January 11, 2015 at 6:11 pm #

    Looks like Chunky Chucky is letting his paranoia flag fly some.over at Gerbil Report…

    charlesmountain 100p · 7 minutes ago
    Warning! This post is intended solely for DARPAmonitor_52 who’s now following me. Read at your own risk!

    Congratulations, you made the team…

    Team Faggot™ consists of :

    Dr. Corndick aka hasty fag aka Kevin Davidson – sniveling faggot

    Fagoff Fagblower aka Bill Bryan – disbarred faggot

    DARPAmonitor_52 aka who gives a fuck – buttsniffing faggot

    All rights reserved.Looks like Chucky is letting his paranoia flag fly….over at Gerbil Report

  52. avatar
    Rickey January 11, 2015 at 6:21 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Yep he said he personally hasn’t seen such corruption since FDR ordered the army to fire on the bonus army

    There was a second, much smaller bonus army march in 1933, after FDR took office, but there was no violent confrontation. FDR opposed paying the veterans their bonuses early, but he provided them with a campsite and three meals a day. The veterans also were visited by Eleanor Roosevelt, who promised jobs in the Civilian Conservation Corps for any veterans who wanted to accept the offer. No shots were fired, of course.

    And the 1933 march occurred 12 years before Kerchner was born.

  53. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG January 11, 2015 at 6:40 pm #

    Rickey: Civilian Conservation Corps

    My Dad has taken to me to a few of the former CCC sites, and he even has some of their store tokens. Neat stuff.

  54. avatar
    wrecking ball January 11, 2015 at 8:00 pm #

    Pete: No, that didn’t go well — but you also (inadvertently) illustrated the vast difference between yourself and the birthers.

    When you’ve made a mistake, or inadvertently done what you exhort birthers not to do, and it’s pointed out to you, you correct it.

    Birthers, in general are not correctable. They never admit to their errors. They’re not teachable.

    That, I suppose, is what makes them birthers.

    great points. i agree to all.

  55. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2015 at 9:04 pm #

    I see that GerbilFalcon is now following DARPAmonitor_52 in Intense Debate.

    bovril: Looks like Chunky Chucky is letting his paranoia flag fly some.over at Gerbil Report…

  56. avatar
    RanTalbott January 11, 2015 at 9:30 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: I won’t spoil it for you.

    Can you at least give us a hint as to where it is? I just got out of the hospital for an infection that nearly cost me a large chunk of my foot, so I’m not allowed to go wading through cesspools right now.

  57. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 11, 2015 at 10:03 pm #

    In response to SirenDrake’s question of why I comment at Birther Report, I said:

    “Well Mike Zullo says the Obots are irrelevant but he talks about them all the time.

    Birther Report is irrelevant, and the Obots are irrelevant. Neither makes any difference.

    Birther Report is to my knowledge the only active Birther web site (active meaning having significant participation) left, and it has devolved into little more than a school yard shouting match (involving the less than decent kids). The articles are recycled. The comments bring nothing to the debate.

    You all sit around waiting for Zullo, and Zullo never comes.

    The ONLY thing that’s really happening in the Birther Universe is Mike Volin and his Sheriff’s kits. Mike is exercising his Constitutional right to petition Congress. The rest of you are just showing the world what crappy people the birthers are.

    That said, readers at my site seem to enjoy feeling morally and intellectually superior to Birthers by reading an article whose topic is “look at the latest stupid and disgusting thing at Birther Report!”

    So I come here to mine garbage, and I make factual comments to counter your nonsense because I enjoy doing it.”

    Read more at http://www.birtherreport.com/2015/01/ouch-pat-boone-unloads-traitor-obama.html#Ulko38yfjvtfPFZO.99

  58. avatar
    Notorial Dissent January 11, 2015 at 10:12 pm #

    That can’t have gone over well, truth hurting and all that.

  59. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG January 12, 2015 at 12:19 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: You all sit around waiting for Zullo, and Zullo never comes.

    Even Vladimir and Estragon are having a good laugh at the birthers.

  60. avatar
    Keith January 12, 2015 at 1:01 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That said, readers at my site seem to enjoy feeling morally and intellectually superior to Birthers by reading an article whose topic is “look at the latest stupid and disgusting thing at Birther Report!”

    So I come here to mine garbage, and I make factual comments to counter your nonsense because I enjoy doing it.”

    I’m not sure if that is more damning to ‘us’ or ‘them’.

  61. avatar
    wrecking ball January 12, 2015 at 6:27 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    That said, readers at my site seem to enjoy feeling morally and intellectually superior …..

    i think there are are many very intelligent birthers and the majority are most likely of average intelligence ( i’d include myself in this range ). this is specifically what i find so fascinating about them. they have become the text book example of cognitive dissonance ( and are a constant reminder to myself to check that i’m not letting my own biases affect what information i accept/reject ).

    if all birthers were like BSE i’d simply chuckle, move on and be grateful that i wasn’t trapped in such a brain.

  62. avatar
    Krosis January 12, 2015 at 6:40 am #

    Yeah, this feeling of superiority is the only reason why I follow the birther movement. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  63. avatar
    RanTalbott January 12, 2015 at 7:15 am #

    wrecking ball: i think there are are many very intelligent birthers and the majority are most likely of average intelligence

    I strongly disagree. There was a time, years ago, when “very intelligent” people might have wondered whether there was some substance to all the birther claims. But there can no longer be any doubt that they’re a bunch of loony BS. The only “very intelligent” people left are the grifters who prey on the birther masses, and the clinically insane.

    I do occasionally encounter people of average intelligence who never really paid attention to the subject before, but they don’t last as birthers: as soon as they get just a little bit of good information, they realize that the vast majority of remaining birthers are either stupid, or just using birtherism as a cover for their prejudices, and walk away.

  64. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 12, 2015 at 8:28 am #

    It was intended to be an engineered insult to the birthers. I don’t think I was really characterizing most folks here.

    Keith: I’m not sure if that is more damning to ‘us’ or ‘them’.

  65. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 12, 2015 at 10:13 am #

    wrecking ball: i think there are are many very intelligent birthers and the majority are most likely of average intelligence ( i’d include myself in this range ). this is specifically what i find so fascinating about them. they have become the text book example of cognitive dissonance ( and are a constant reminder to myself to check that i’m not letting my own biases affect what information i accept/reject ).

    if all birthers were like BSE i’d simply chuckle, move on and be grateful that i wasn’t trapped in such a brain.

    I’m just amazed at how many birthers claim themselves to be members of Mensa. I had one just tell me that he had a doctorate “in the top department” in his field for two years. That was with random caps and all.

  66. avatar
    Pete January 12, 2015 at 11:02 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: You all sit around waiting for Zullo, and Zullo never comes.

    ESTRAGON: Let’s go.
    VLADIMIR: We can’t.
    ESTRAGON: Why not?
    VLADIMIR: We’re waiting for Zullot.
    ESTRAGON: (despairingly) Ah!

  67. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 12, 2015 at 11:05 am #

    I was in the chat room on Volin’s show hosted by Rush last week and a guy there claimed to be in Mensa. I don’t remember the ID, except that it had “NYC” in it. Based on his conversation, I think he probably was in Mensa. He was more verbally skilled that the run-of-the-mill birther. He was saying I should believe Bettina Viviano.

    I was in Mensa too, a very long time ago. I don’t have a scrap of paper, not even a map pin to prove it. I got in on standardized test scores, not their test. Nobody in the local group seems to have actually taken the Mensa test that I knew of.

    But being intelligent is just one dimension and doesn’t mean that one has the sense God gave rocks.

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: I’m just amazed at how many birthers claim themselves to be members of Mensa. I had one just tell me that he had a doctorate “in the top department” in his field for two years. That was with random caps and all.

  68. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 12, 2015 at 11:42 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I was in the chat room on Volin’s show hosted by Rush last week and a guy there claimed to be in Mensa. I don’t remember the ID, except that it had “NYC” in it. Based on his conversation, I think he probably was in Mensa. He was more verbally skilled that the run-of-the-mill birther. He was saying I should believe Bettina Viviano.

    I was in Mensa too, a very long time ago. I don’t have a scrap of paper, not even a map pin to prove it. I got in on standardized test scores, not their test. Nobody in the local group seems to have actually taken the Mensa test that I knew of.

    But being intelligent is just one dimension and doesn’t mean that one has the sense God gave rocks.

    Was it Carl from NY by any chance? If so that is the same person who told me he was in Mensa. This is the same guy who asked Jim Garrow where Garrow got his doctorate from and Garrow claimed the government swore his thesis adviser to secrecy. Carl seemed to eat it up. Same guy also tells me that “Erik Rush is a really bright guy”. I’m sure he also thinks Volin is smart and Viviano has proven her claims beyond any doubt.

  69. avatar
    wrecking ball January 12, 2015 at 1:39 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    But being intelligent is just one dimension and doesn’t mean that one has the sense God gave rocks.

    no argument here.

  70. avatar
    wrecking ball January 12, 2015 at 2:08 pm #

    RanTalbott:

    I do occasionally encounter people of average intelligence who never really paid attention to the subject before,….

    recent polls still have over 33% of republicans giving some level of credibility to birtherism. agreed, these are probably “casual use birthers” who have never bothered to investigate the facts or simply ignore the facts when presented.

  71. avatar
    Reality Check January 12, 2015 at 4:14 pm #

    Yes, I emailed Doc as soon as I saw he had misidentified “Charles Mountain” as Kerchner. Like Doc, and unlike Mr. Kerchner, I care about the truth. I don’t know why Mr. Kerchner has panties in such a wad about being ID’ed as “Charles Mountain”. It is a natural mistake since “Mountain Goat” is one of the multiple handles that Mr. Kerchner has used to post at various sites. Charles Mountain is a middle of the road disgusting commenter as far as Birther Report goes.

    Mr. Kerchner happily posts at BR, a blog where a day doesn’t go by without libelous attacks being made against Foggy, Doc, and others. They have even targeted Foggy’s children. Mr. Kerchner raised money for Nelson to buy a new server when his blog was shut down by Google due to a self inflicted infestation of malware.

    So Mr. Kerchner I think you know where you can place your self-righteous indignation over being compared to a typical commenter at BR.

  72. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 12, 2015 at 4:30 pm #

    Reality Check: So Mr. Kerchner I think you know where you can place your self-righteous indignation over being compared to a typical commenter at BR.

    He can stuff it in the same box the server is probably still in.

  73. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 12, 2015 at 4:34 pm #

    It could have been. It’s a shame that those chats evaporate after the show (unless you save them yourself IIRC).

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Was it Carl from NY by any chance?

  74. avatar
    BillTheCat January 13, 2015 at 12:11 pm #

    gorefan: I though Billy was a mountain and Ethel was a tree growing off of his shoulder.

    OMG a fellow Zappa fan 🙂 I adore that song!

    CharlesMountain: Full of IMPOTENT RAAAAAAAAGE.

    Kerchner = Human garbage and a disgrace to our armed forces.

  75. avatar
    RewriteOurWorld January 13, 2015 at 3:39 pm #

    Can you elaborate upon this? If I recall correctly, someone (Falcon?) had posted “that pic” on occasion to get people riled up. Then people started calling Foggy a “pedophile.”

    It’s also worth mentioning I don’t recall Kerchner objecting to Falcon’s libel against “Alycia” either. If more significant people in the “birther” movement actually stood up to the bully, maybe Falcon and BR would finally be put in their place. I don’t see this happening though.

    But, yeah, any sensible person should be able to see the hypocrisy. People should speak out for the truth whether it makes them “blacklisted” or not.

    The truth is important.

    Reality Check:

    Mr. Kerchner happily posts at BR, a blog where a day doesn’t go by without libelous attacks being made against Foggy, Doc, and others. They have even targeted Foggy’s children.

  76. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 13, 2015 at 3:43 pm #

    I think your description sums up what Falcon did. I would consider posting a photo of someone’s kids online in a forum like that way over the line, out of control, and reprehensible. I mean he posts a child’s photo and says that the kid is the victim of sexual abuse (when they aren’t). I’ve met Foggy’s kids and they are totally excellent, happy and well-adjusted kids.

    RewriteOurWorld: Can you elaborate upon this? If I recall correctly, someone (Falcon?) had posted “that pic” on occasion to get people riled up. Then people started calling Foggy a “pedophile.

  77. avatar
    Reality Check January 13, 2015 at 3:46 pm #

    I was referring to the libelous claims that Foggy is a pedophile and that the boys have been harmed by that.

    BTW, I too have met Foggy and his sons (Mrs. Leghorn too). They are a wonderful family and his boys are perfect young gentlemen.

    Well to sanity ROW. I hate that you became the target of the venom and libel that BR seems perfectly content with allowing to transpire at his blog. Anyone with an ounce of decency would have put a stop to Falcon and BSE long ago.

    RewriteOurWorld: Can you elaborate upon this? If I recall correctly, someone (Falcon?) had posted “that pic” on occasion to get people riled up. Then people started calling Foggy a “pedophile.”

  78. avatar
    The Magic M January 14, 2015 at 5:26 am #

    Reality Check: I hate that you became the target of the venom and libel

    Lie down with dogs, get fleas. I don’t feel sympathy for an outspoken birther nut like ROW getting a taste of his peers’ medicine when they turn against him. Just because Falcon/BSE are even worse than the average birfer doesn’t mean the average birfer is suddenly a nice person and not a racist loon.

  79. avatar
    The Magic M January 14, 2015 at 5:28 am #

    Pete: ESTRAGON: Let’s go.
    VLADIMIR: We can’t.
    ESTRAGON: Why not?
    VLADIMIR: We’re waiting for Zullot.
    ESTRAGON: (despairingly) Ah!

    ESTRAGON: Look, it’s Godot! He’s finally here!
    VLADIMIR: Huzzah!
    ESTRAGON: Alrighty then, shall we go for a beer?
    GODOT: Sorry, can’t, am still waiting for Zullo.

  80. avatar
    RewriteOurWorld January 14, 2015 at 1:27 pm #

    The Magic M: Lie down with dogs, get fleas. I don’t feel sympathy for an outspoken birther nut like ROW getting a taste of his peers’ medicine when they turn against him. Just because Falcon/BSE are even worse than the average birfer doesn’t mean the average birfer is suddenly a nice person and not a racist loon.

    People shouldn’t feel sorry for me. It’s my choice to post on BR. However, people SHOULD feel sorry for Alycia and her husband who have been constantly libeled. As far as I know, she has nothing to do with BR.

    Also, just for the record, I don’t consider myself a “birther.” I consider myself a skeptic. Of course, because of this, I’m often called an “Obot” by the “birthers” and a “birther” by the “Obots.” It doesn’t really phase me at this point. I think people shouldn’t be focusing on team mentality and instead should be focusing on the truth.

    I like to visit the Doc’s site to gain another perspective other than the one I see at “birther” sites. As of late, I’ve found what Doc’s been posting to be far more meaningful than the same regurgitated stuff I see at BR. A lot of the people at BR need to be more open minded instead of just wishing Obama would hang.

    People have been asking me why I bother to post on either site if I don’t really “fit in” with either crowd. The answer is simple- I like to learn. I like to broaden my perspective. I also find it important to not let falsehoods be left unchallenged so that they fester and grow.

  81. avatar
    Reality Check January 14, 2015 at 2:35 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: Also, just for the record, I don’t consider myself a “birther.” I consider myself a skeptic.

    At BR you wrote:

    I believe Obama has committed fraud numerous times. I believe the birth certificate has been amended and the current certificate is not a correct representation of the facts. I believe Obama was probably born in Hawaii, but would not be surprised in the slightest if he was born somewhere else.

    I am against many of Obama’s policies. I believe he flagrantly disregards the Constitution.

    My name is not Alycia. My name is not Kevin Davidson. My name is not Scott. I am not an Obot. I am a registered Republican who strongly identifies with the Libertarian party.

    There ya go. Someone not affiliated with this site suggested I be clear in my relevant beliefs and post them.

    ….

    You sound a lot like a Birther. There is zero evidence that President Obama’s birth certificate has been amended. Likewise there is no evidence he has committed fraud. Your beliefs are based on nonsense.

  82. avatar
    gorefan January 14, 2015 at 3:33 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: falsehoods be left unchallenged so that they fester and grow.

    That would be a good motto for a website.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 14, 2015 at 3:49 pm #

    Yeah, I have to agree that the definition of “birther” has to embrace the entire complex of issues about Obama’s birth, identity documents and early life narrative. I would go so far as to say that someone who says “Obama attended Occidental College as a foreign student” or “Obama traveled to Pakistan on an Indonesian passport” is a birther.

    It is interesting how mainstream birtherism has shifted from “Obama was born in Kenya” to “Obama’s birth certificate is a forgery.” I guess the latter is a more “respectable” position, although it is equally hokey when you look at the evidence, or more accurately the lack of evidence for both. In the 2012 round of lawsuits, many ignored both of these issues, focusing on the claim that US Presidents must be born in the country to two citizen parents. I’m inclined to call them birthers too.

    The problem with “Obot” is more difficult because not all who oppose birthers are Obama supporters. Is an Obot a rabid Obama supporter or someone who disagrees with birthers? I’m not going to raise a big objection to Obot, but I prefer “anti-birther” myself.

    Reality Check: You sound a lot like a Birther. There is zero evidence that President Obama’s birth certificate has been amended. Likewise there is no evidence he has committed fraud. Your beliefs are based on nonsense.

  84. avatar
    RewriteOurWorld January 14, 2015 at 3:55 pm #

    Reality Check:
    You sound a lot like a Birther. There is zero evidence that President Obama’s birth certificate has been amended. Likewise there is no evidence he has committed fraud. Your beliefs are based on nonsense.

    A lot of “birthers” say that because I believe Obama was born in Hawaii that makes me sound like an “Obot.” They’d take the same quote and turn it in the exact opposite direction. They’d also say that particular belief is “based on nonsense.” They’d also probably say “There is zero evidence that President Obama was born in Hawaii.”

    What I believe is that a lot of the well-known people in the “birther” movement aren’t really just trying to find out the truth about Obama. What a lot of them are doing is just trying to make a name for themselves, stroke their own ego, write books, or do things that lead to monetary gain (granted, the truth is also important but takes a back seat). A lot of the “birthers” refuse to believe this, which leads to a lot of boot licking and non-critical thinking.

    Anyhow, I’m well aware of what the definition of a “birther” is according to many of the Obots. I disagree with it. However, I try not to make a big deal out of it unless someone tries to demean me based solely on associations. Heck, I’m surprised I haven’t heard this on BR yet:

    “Look! RewriteOurWorld posts on Doctor Conspiracy’s site. He just outed himself as an Obot! What ‘birther’ reads and writes at Dr. C’s blog!?”

  85. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 14, 2015 at 4:06 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: A lot of “birthers” say that because I believe Obama was born in Hawaii that makes me sound like an “Obot.” They’d take the same quote and turn it in the exact opposite direction. They’d also say that particular belief is “based on nonsense.” They’d also probably say “There is zero evidence that President Obama was born in Hawaii.”

    Which still doesn’t address what RC said about what you wrote at BR. There is no proof to support an amendment was made to his birth certificate. What supposed amendment do you think happened? Be specific. How exactly is the current certificate not an accurate representation of the facts?

    The birth date is correct, the birth place is correct, the parents names are correct. This can all be linked to documentation going back to 1961 in the Obama Sr INS file.

  86. avatar
    Arthur B. January 14, 2015 at 4:10 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: A lot of “birthers” say that because I believe Obama was born in Hawaii that makes me sound like an “Obot.” They’d take the same quote and turn it in the exact opposite direction. They’d also say that particular belief is “based on nonsense.” They’d also probably say “There is zero evidence that President Obama was born in Hawaii.”

    Yes, we know what birthers say. But, to me, the question is, what evidence do you have to support your stated claims that “the birth certificate has been amended” and “the current certificate is not a correct representation of the facts”?

    To make those claims without offering evidence sounds awfully birtherish to me.

  87. avatar
    RewriteOurWorld January 14, 2015 at 4:14 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    The problem with “Obot” is more difficult because not all who oppose birthers are Obama supporters. Is an Obot a rabid Obama supporter or someone who disagrees with birthers? I’m not going to raise a big objection to Obot, but I prefer “anti-birther” myself.

    This is actually pretty important. There’s plenty of people that are “anti-birthers” that aren’t necessarily “Obots.” There’s also “skeptics” that aren’t “birthers.”

    I think we might just get hung up on the terms being used. I think it’s better to view people as individuals with their own viewpoints rather than give them labels that leads to “team mentality.” Having said that though, I know I’m guilty of using the terms more broadly than I should have been. I should try my best to avoid that. At the very least, I think I’ll try going back to calling people against the “birther movement” to be anti-birthers. It sounds more appropriate and less conflicting.

  88. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 14, 2015 at 4:18 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: At the very least, I think I’ll try going back to calling people against the “birther movement” to be anti-birthers. It sounds more appropriate and less conflicting.

    Well do you believe he obtained the office through fraud? Do you believe he’s not really the President? Do you believe he’s lying about the circumstances of his birth?

  89. avatar
    Reality Check January 14, 2015 at 4:29 pm #

    I am not sure if you are defending your beliefs or not. Are you making the “There are two sides to this argument so it is 50/50” argument? Or “Where there is smoke there is fire?”. As Thomas a caller to my show likes to say: “Sometimes when there is smoke there is a smoke machine”. I don’t need to run through all the evidence that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii. From what I can tell the Brither evidence for a Kenyan birth consists of

    1. A debunked forged birth certificate produced by a convicted forger who tried to sell his forgery on eBay.
    2. Lies about an interview with Barack Obama’s grandmother.
    3. An error in a brochure produced by a literary agent who has confirmed she made an error.

    If that is enough for you to have doubts that President Obama was born anywhere other than where his birth certificate says he was born then “skeptic” is not the word I would use.

    RewriteOurWorld: A lot of “birthers” say that because I believe Obama was born in Hawaii that makes me sound like an “Obot.” They’d take the same quote and turn it in the exact opposite direction. They’d also say that particular belief is “based on nonsense.” They’d also probably say “There is zero evidence that President Obama was born in Hawaii.”

  90. avatar
    RewriteOurWorld January 14, 2015 at 4:35 pm #

    Arthur B.: Yes, we know what birthers say. But, to me, the question is, what evidence do you have to support your stated claims that “the birth certificate has been amended” and “the current certificate is not a correct representation of the facts”?

    The strongest evidence for me is based on what Jesse Koike has said, both publicly and privately.

    William from BR seems to be going in a different direction than I am concerning that particular issue. Something about the BC being amended 3 times? I think he claimed Foggy confirmed it or something like that? I can’t remember the exact quote. Mark Gillar has also given hints, even giving a specific year.

    I went into more detail on my blog and on a site I don’t remember the name of. James Woodman or something like that? I had a debate with an anti-birther there and on Mark Levin’s blog (Oh noes, Falcon is going to dox me again!)

    I don’t think there’s a real point in trying to convince people I’m not a “birther.” To me, it’s just a title people willingly embrace or someone forces on you to demean your viewpoints.

  91. avatar
    Reality Check January 14, 2015 at 4:36 pm #

    I agree the terms “Birther” and “Obot” are overused and obfuscate the underlying perceptions and facts. I prefer to see it as those who deal in reality and those who are willfully ignorant.

    RewriteOurWorld: I think we might just get hung up on the terms being used. I think it’s better to view people as individuals with their own viewpoints rather than give them labels that leads to “team mentality.” Having said that though, I know I’m guilty of using the terms more broadly than I should have been. I should try my best to avoid that. At the very least, I think I’ll try going back to calling people against the “birther movement” to be anti-birthers. It sounds more appropriate and less conflicting.

  92. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 14, 2015 at 4:38 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: The strongest evidence for me is based on what Jesse Koike has said, both publicly and privately.

    William from BR seems to be going in a different direction than I am concerning that particular issue. Something about the BC being amended 3 times? I think he claimed Foggy confirmed it or something like that? I can’t remember the exact quote. Mark Gillar has also given hints, even giving a specific year.

    I went into more detail on my blog and on a site I don’t remember the name of. James Woodman or something like that? I had a debate with an anti-birther there and on Mark Levin’s blog (Oh noes, Falcon is going to dox me again!)

    I don’t think there’s a real point in trying to convince people I’m not a “birther.” To me, it’s just a title people willingly embrace or someone forces on you to demean your viewpoints.

    Umm what? So your proof that the BC was amended was vague claims on some other site?

    What did Jesse Koike say? What do you believe was amended on it?

  93. avatar
    RewriteOurWorld January 14, 2015 at 4:42 pm #

    Reality Check:

    If that is enough for you to have doubts that President Obama was born anywhere other than where his birth certificate says he was born then “skeptic” is not the word I would use.

    We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

    I must say, I enjoy having a conversation like this instead of people just calling others “idiots.” I find it refreshing and far more productive. It’s totally different than BR where the “birthers” just call Doc. C names and think they’ve won an argument.

  94. avatar
    RewriteOurWorld January 14, 2015 at 4:56 pm #

    Reality Check:
    I prefer to see it as those who deal in reality and those who are willfully ignorant.

    …dare I ask which category would Nancy and BSE fall into?

  95. avatar
    Jim January 14, 2015 at 4:59 pm #

    Reality Check: I agree the terms “Birther” and “Obot” are overused

    I prefer the terms “Haters” and “Lovers”…haters of all our country stands for and lovers who will defend it.

  96. avatar
    Arthur B. January 14, 2015 at 5:09 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: The strongest evidence for me is based on what Jesse Koike has said, both publicly and privately.

    I’m not familiar with what Jesse Koike said. Can you tell me more?

  97. avatar
    realist January 14, 2015 at 5:25 pm #

    Arthur B.: I’m not familiar with what Jesse Koike said. Can you tell me more?

    This is pretty much all I know of him or her.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/09/dean-and-mikis-7e-adventure/#more-14675

  98. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG January 14, 2015 at 5:29 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: …dare I ask which category would Nancy and BSE fall into?

    Her own special little box: “Mystery Specimen”.

  99. avatar
    gorefan January 14, 2015 at 6:26 pm #

    Arthur B.: I’m not familiar with what Jesse Koike said. Can you tell me more?

    realist: This is pretty much all I know of him or her.

    This may be what he is referring to:

    http://www.gamespot.com/forums/offtopic-discussion-314159273/gamespot-exclusive-barack-obama-ii-was-adopted-bra-28865660/

  100. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 14, 2015 at 7:21 pm #

    realist: This is pretty much all I know of him or her.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2011/09/dean-and-mikis-7e-adventure/#more-14675

    Not sure how Jesse saying they use 5 different stamps somehow supports the belief that the birth certificate was modified.

  101. avatar
    gorefan January 14, 2015 at 8:05 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Not sure how Jesse saying they use 5 different stamps somehow supports the belief that the birth certificate was modified.

    see this post:

    http://www.gamespot.com/forums/offtopic-discussion-314159273/gamespot-exclusive-barack-obama-ii-was-adopted-bra-28865660/

    Jessie says court order and they take it to mean adoption birth certificate.

  102. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 14, 2015 at 8:13 pm #

    gorefan: see this post:

    http://www.gamespot.com/forums/offtopic-discussion-314159273/gamespot-exclusive-barack-obama-ii-was-adopted-bra-28865660/

    Jessie says court order and they take it to mean adoption birth certificate.

    No what I see is the OP claiming a court order means adoption.

    What Jesse said: “If you’re president of the United States, you can have a copy of the long form, but the rest of us have to pound sand.”

    So then he said, “There was a court order so that would be released.”

    With a court order the long form could be released. I’m not getting the rest of it.

  103. avatar
    gorefan January 14, 2015 at 8:36 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: No what I see is the OP claiming a court order means adoption

    Here’s how I read it.

    Dean Haskins/Miki Booth: “If you’re president of the United States, you can have a copy of the long form, but the rest of us have to pound sand.”

    Jessie: “There was a court order so that would be released.”

    Birther brains: ah ha. He had to have a court order therefore it must be an adoption birth certificate.

    I suspect they took this-off-the cuff statement by a DOH employee as proof that the LFBC was amended by the adoption.

    Original P&E link

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/09/18/hawaii-department-of-health-weve-got-a-couple-of-birthers-here/

    The article is about Dean and Miki’s big adventure.

  104. avatar
    RewriteOurWorld January 14, 2015 at 9:36 pm #

    gorefan:

    I suspect they took this-off-the cuff statement by a DOH employee as proof that the LFBC was amended by the adoption.

    Some people believe Obama may have instead had a name change. Some even believe he was both adopted and had a name change.

    Btw, apparently, the year 2006 is important.

    On a different note, is it just me, or, has there been a lot of traffic on this site as of late?

  105. avatar
    Arthur B. January 14, 2015 at 9:43 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: Some people believe Obama may have instead had a name change. Some even believe he was both adopted and had a name change.

    But my question to you involved your statement that “the strongest evidence for [you] is based on what Jesse Koike has said, both publicly and privately.”

    Obviously, telling us what some people believe is not evidence by any stretch. What did Jesse say that struck you not just as evidence, but in fact as the strongest evidence you have in this matter?

  106. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 14, 2015 at 10:04 pm #

    Traffic might be up a little. There were 619 unique visitors yesterday which is maybe 75 above the average for the last 2 months. So far today it’s below that.

    RewriteOurWorld: On a different note, is it just me, or, has there been a lot of traffic on this site as of late?

  107. avatar
    gorefan January 14, 2015 at 11:18 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: Some people believe Obama may have instead had a name change. Some even believe he was both adopted and had a name change.

    Well considering that the 1961 newspaper announcements say that the father is Barack Obama and the August 30, 1961 memo from the immigration service mentions the President by name, it would be hard to image when the name change took place.

  108. avatar
    John Reilly January 15, 2015 at 12:57 am #

    Our friend RewriteOur World said:

    : I believe Obama has committed fraud numerous times. I believe the birth certificate has been amended and the current certificate is not a correct representation of the facts. I believe Obama was probably born in Hawaii, but would not be surprised in the slightest if he was born somewhere else.

    I do not accuse people of “fraud” without having some evidence. Otherwise, that’s just the pointless name-calling you claim to disdain.

    This blog is a reality-based community. (OK, none of us can explain Nancy, John or Sven. There are always outliers.) The State of Hawaii says that Obama was born in Hawaii. In this country, that’s how we determine such things. I’m comfortable with believing Hawaii. If you have an amended birth certificate (and not just someone guessing that there is such a thing), by all means link to it.

    And despite all of the manufactured controversy about the President’s birthplace, not a single member of Congress spoke up when it was time to do so. That’s who we pay to check out the election results. Now when Bush was elected in 2000 some congressmen objected. And when he was re-elected in 2004 congressmen and at least one Senator objected, and there was actually a vote taken on the dispute. Congresspeople who think Pres. Obama is acting unconstitutionally still could not bring themselves to object.

    So if you think the President has committed fraud “numerous times” please set forth facts. (I’m not sure that “if you like your health plan you’ll be able to keep it qualifies as fraud, but if you think it does, try comparing and contrasting with the lies told about Iraq acquiring uranium, lies which led to people actually shooting at me.) And if you think his birth certificate was amended, let’s see the amended document. Not a reference to someone who is just making s**t up.

    I’m one of the resident Republicans on this site.

  109. avatar
    The Magic M January 15, 2015 at 5:22 am #

    gorefan: Here’s how I read it.

    Dean Haskins/Miki Booth: “If you’re president of the United States, you can have a copy of the long form, but the rest of us have to pound sand.”

    Jessie: “There was a court order so that would be released.”

    Birther brains: ah ha. He had to have a court order therefore it must be an adoption birth certificate.

    Classical case of “ex falso quodlibet” combined with false direction logic. 😉

    Reductio ad absurdum:

    1. If a man gives birth to a child, that child has black skin.

    2. Obama has black skin.

    3. Therefore Obama’s mother was a man.

    (1) is the “ex falso quodlibet” premise. The statement is logically true because it’s an implication from an impossibility (to refute it, you’d have to find a child that was given birth to by a man that doesn’t have black skin; you can’t – since a man can’t give birth to a child – so the statement – not its premise! – is true).

    (3) is the false direction logic (A => B does not mean B => A).

  110. avatar
    bovril January 15, 2015 at 7:20 am #

    So Doc how do we reconcile the latest CT from BullSh#t Extreme and his obsession that you are in fact a REAL doctor, Dr Chris Kaufmann of Franklin, PA.

    Can you now prescribe some anti-psychotics to the denizens of Gerbil Fever..?

  111. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 15, 2015 at 7:56 am #

    gorefan: Dean Haskins/Miki Booth: “If you’re president of the United States, you can have a copy of the long form, but the rest of us have to pound sand.”

    Jessie: “There was a court order so that would be released.”

    Birther brains: ah ha. He had to have a court order therefore it must be an adoption birth certificate.

    I suspect they took this-off-the cuff statement by a DOH employee as proof that the LFBC was amended by the adoption.

    Yeah I know but reading the two statements they don’t jive with each other. At the time the only way birthers could get the long form outside of a waiver by the State would be through a court order. That’s what the employee was saying.

  112. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 15, 2015 at 7:57 am #

    RewriteOurWorld: Some people believe Obama may have instead had a name change. Some even believe he was both adopted and had a name change.

    Btw, apparently, the year 2006 is important.

    On a different note, is it just me, or, has there been a lot of traffic on this site as of late?

    Some people? Well we were asking about what you believe not what some people believe. What would he have had a name change from? If he was adopted there would be an adoption certificate somewhere. Who do you claim adopted him? A name change would also be public and a modification would be marked as such on the certificate.

  113. avatar
    Lupin January 15, 2015 at 8:33 am #

    bovril:
    So Doc how do we reconcile the latest CT from BullSh#t Extreme and his obsession that you are in fact a REAL doctor, Dr Chris Kaufmann of Franklin, PA.

    Can you now prescribe some anti-psychotics to the denizens of Gerbil Fever..?

    If there ever was ONE Gerbil who should be outed, it is BSE. He is a lunatic, in the clinical sense of the term.

    I noticed that that mad, ignorant woman Sharon Rondeau is at it again, peddling the long discredited Kerchner/Apuzzo fictions. Clearly the birther mind (as it were) is impervious to any dribble of new information.

  114. avatar
    Arthur January 15, 2015 at 8:58 am #

    Lupin: I noticed that that mad, ignorant woman Sharon Rondeau is at it again, peddling the long discredited Kerchner/Apuzzo fictions. Clearly the birther mind (as it were) is impervious to any dribble of new information.

    Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your mouth
    Blowing down the backroads headin’ south
    Idiot wind, blowing every time you move your teeth
    You’re an idiot, babe
    It’s a wonder that you still know how to breathe

    Read more: http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/idiot-wind#ixzz3Otl2xXNd

  115. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 15, 2015 at 9:09 am #

    I don’t know if I mentioned this but BSE was interviewed on the radio (not sure if it was Blogtalk) about his trip to Sandy Hook and photos he took there. He sounds like a northerner, bit I couldn’t place it–maybe someplace like Chicago.

    Meanwhile, Rambo Ike gave you a shout out claiming that he scored some points on you. I invited him over, but he hasn’t shown.

    Lupin: If there ever was ONE Gerbil who should be outed, it is BSE. He is a lunatic, in the clinical sense of the term.

  116. avatar
    Arthur January 15, 2015 at 9:45 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: He sounds like a northerner, bit I couldn’t place it–maybe someplace like Chicago

    Northerner yes, but not Chicago (a dialect I’m very familiar with). I’d say Pennsylvania. Maybe Philadelphia.

  117. avatar
    Lupin January 15, 2015 at 10:30 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t know if I mentioned this but BSE was interviewed on the radio (not sure if it was Blogtalk) about his trip to Sandy Hook and photos he took there. He sounds like a northerner, bit I couldn’t place it–maybe someplace like Chicago.

    Meanwhile, Rambo Ike gave you a shout out claiming that he scored some points on you. I invited him over, but he hasn’t shown.

    You mean, on GERBIL REPORT? Well, since I can’t post there, it’s kind of moot.

  118. avatar
    Rickey January 15, 2015 at 12:00 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: Some people believe Obama may have instead had a name change. Some even believe he was both adopted and had a name change.

    Some people believe that flying saucers originate from a subterranean world on Earth. That doesn’t mean that those people are correct, or that anyone should take their belief seriously.

    If Obama ever legally changed his name, there would be a record of it. A name change is matter of public record.

    And of course there is no record that Obama was ever adopted, not that it would make any difference regarding his eligibility.

    I have a friend who was adopted as a young child. He has an amended birth certificate which shows his adoptive name, but the birth certificate says “AMENDED” on it.

  119. avatar
    dunstvangeet January 15, 2015 at 12:47 pm #

    MagicMan, here’s a better statement…

    If someone is an Natural Born American citizen, then he/she is human (Obviously true)
    The Queen of England is a human (Obviously True)
    Therefore, the Queen of England is an Natural Born American citizen. (Obviously false)

    This shows you why this argument is a logic fallacy.

  120. avatar
    BillTheCat January 15, 2015 at 1:16 pm #

    Oh look, it’s one of those “kinder, gentler” birthers (see: Concern Troll). Same losing argument and lack of facts, but with a polite face. He’s “born in Hawaii”, and yet you think the BC has been “altered”….even though being born in Hawaii ends the argument. And he “changed his name”, even though there were the birth announcements with his name in print.

    /yawn

  121. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG January 15, 2015 at 1:23 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: Some people believe Obama may have instead had a name change. Some even believe he was both adopted and had a name change.

    And some people believe the Earth is hollow.

  122. avatar
    SvenMagnussen January 15, 2015 at 11:44 pm #

    John Reilly:
    Our friend RewriteOur World said:

    I do not accuse people of “fraud” without having some evidence.Otherwise, that’s just the pointless name-calling you claim to disdain.

    This blog is a reality-based community.(OK, none of us can explain Nancy, John or Sven.There are always outliers.)The State of Hawaii says that Obama was born in Hawaii.In this country, that’s how we determine such things.I’m comfortable with believing Hawaii.If you have an amended birth certificate (and not just someone guessing that there is such a thing), by all means link to it.

    And despite all of the manufactured controversy about the President’s birthplace, not a single member of Congress spoke up when it was time to do so.That’s who we pay to check out the election results.Now when Bush was elected in 2000 some congressmen objected.And when he was re-elected in 2004 congressmen and at least one Senator objected, and there was actually a vote taken on the dispute.Congresspeople who think Pres. Obama is acting unconstitutionally still could not bring themselves to object.

    So if you think the President has committed fraud “numerous times” please set forth facts.(I’m not sure that “if you like your health plan you’ll be able to keep it qualifies as fraud, but if you think it does, try comparing and contrasting with the lies told about Iraq acquiring uranium, lies which led to people actually shooting at me.)And if you think his birth certificate was amended, let’s see the amended document.Not a reference to someone who is just making s**t up.

    I’m one of the resident Republicans on this site.

    Obviously you don’t know what an outlier is.

    Only an Obot would refer to an elementary school registration document identifying the registrant as an Indonesian national born in the U.S. as an outlier. For the rest of us, its contradictory evidence of U.S. citizenship. The document is over forty years old and the school, a private school managed by social services division of the Catholic Church, is still operating to this date. Any American with elementary school aged children who inquires about educating their child in Jakarta, Indonesia with the U.S. State Department will be referred to this school because it has had and continues to have an excellent reputation.

    For a person other than Obama, a certified copy of a Certificate of Live Birth would only be evidence of a birth of a live child. Additional discovery of documents on file with DHS and the U.S. State Department would be warranted. For Obama, its proof he’s a natural born citizen and any examination of his immigration or State Department records are rooted in racism and bigotry.

  123. avatar
    Benji Franklin January 16, 2015 at 12:58 am #

    SvenMagnussen: Only an Obot would refer to an elementary school registration document identifying the registrant as an Indonesian national born in the U.S. as an outlier. For the rest of us, its contradictory evidence of U.S. citizenship. The document is over forty years old and the school, a private school managed by social services division of the Catholic Church, is still operating to this date

    Such a document has no power to alter the citizenship status of a US citizen! If such a form effectively coerced parents into attesting that their child was a citizen of that nation as a condition for enrolling the child, such a declaration would have no effect on the child’s US NBC status! For example, if a form like that seemed to indicate that SvenMagnussen was actually a donkey, you’d still be a reptile.

  124. avatar
    bovril January 16, 2015 at 1:07 am #

    So Sven, you lurched out of your basement and emerging into the light of day searched for that publicly availabe naturalization document you swear Obama has yet…?

    You remember, that primary piece of evidence that proves your insane theories..?

    The one I gave you all the necessary instructions in where to go and what to do…?

    That document and that activity…?

  125. avatar
    Keith January 16, 2015 at 1:49 am #

    RewriteOurWorld: Some people believe Obama may have instead had a name change. Some even believe he was both adopted and had a name change.

    ‘believe’ is a rather strong word.

    I suppose some people might ‘speculate’, after a night on the terps and then waking up with an industrial strength dose of wacky-tobaccy in the company of their fellow basement dwelling members of the Cucamunga Swing Circle, that in some parallel universe, Obama might have done those things.

    But ‘believe’ it? I hardly think so.

  126. avatar
    RanTalbott January 16, 2015 at 3:04 am #

    SvenMagnussen: Only an Obot would refer to an elementary school registration document identifying the registrant as an Indonesian national born in the U.S. as an outlier.

    Only a birther could believe that people have named someone else’s school registration documents “Nancy, John or Sven”.

  127. avatar
    roadburner January 16, 2015 at 3:56 am #

    SvenMagnussen: Obviously you don’t know what an outlier is.

    Only an Obot would refer to an elementary school registration document identifying the registrant as an Indonesian national born in the U.S. as an outlier. For the rest of us, its contradictory evidence of U.S. citizenship. The document is over forty years old and the school, a private school managed by social services division of the Catholic Church, is still operating to this date. Any American with elementary school aged children who inquires about educating their child in Jakarta, Indonesia with the U.S. State Department will be referred to this school because it has had and continues to have an excellent reputation.

    For a person other than Obama, a certified copy of a Certificate of Live Birth would only be evidence of a birth of a live child. Additional discovery of documents on file with DHS and the U.S. State Department would be warranted. For Obama, its proof he’s a natural born citizen and any examination of his immigration or State Department records are rooted in racism and bigotry.

    what school registration?

    oh! the indonesian one that clearly identifies the place of birth as `honalulu, hawaii’ ?

    that one?

    if you are saying that what is in one box is 100% the truth, then you must also for the box above it! gives you a bit of a problem, doesn’t it?

    so tell us sven (when you’ve finished blushing) how someone born in hawaii can be an indonesian citizen, and how a MINOR can go from being a u.s. citizen to being an indonesian citizen legally.

  128. avatar
    The Magic M January 16, 2015 at 6:37 am #

    SvenMagnussen: Only an Obot would refer to an elementary school registration document identifying the registrant as an Indonesian national born in the U.S. as an outlier.

    Benji Franklin: Such a document has no power to alter the citizenship status of a US citizen! If such a form effectively coerced parents into attesting that their child was a citizen of that nation as a condition for enrolling the child, such a declaration would have no effect on the child’s US NBC status!

    Exactly.

    Even if Indonesia, for whatever reason, considered Obama an Indonesian citizen back then, it would not have meant the US would have considered him as having lost his US citizenship (since a minor couldn’t lose it, no way, ever, as has been explained to you 1,001 times).

    And if you’re trying to make the claim the US should somehow care what Indonesia thinks their citizens are, you are effectively giving every country in the world the power to disqualify a US citizen from the Presidency (by simply declaring that person their citizen). I’ve explained this on WND and the P&E 5 years ago and as of today, no birther can answer that (except by denying, against plain logic, that my claim is identical to their claim).

  129. avatar
    SvenMagnussen January 16, 2015 at 8:26 am #

    bovril:
    So Sven, you lurched out of your basement and emerging into the light of day searched for that publicly availabe naturalization document you swear Obama has yet…?

    You remember, that primary piece of evidence that proves your insane theories..?

    The one I gave you all the necessary instructions in where to go and what to do…?

    That document and that activity…?

    Obama’s Certificate of Naturalization was cancelled by U.S. Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey in 2008. A cancelled certificate does not modify the citizenship status of the person the certificate had been issued to. 8 USC Section 1453.

    A careful review of Obama’s NUMIDENT on file with the SSA will prove Obama filed for a SSN in 1977 as permanent legal resident alien. For anyone that is not an Obot, a former green card holder and current citizen of the U.S. is not a natural born citizen.

  130. avatar
    realist January 16, 2015 at 8:41 am #

    SvenMagnussen: Obama’s Certificate of Naturalization was cancelled by U.S. Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey in 2008. A cancelled certificate does not modify the citizenship status of the person the certificate had been issued to. 8 USC Section 1453.

    A careful review of Obama’s NUMIDENT on file with the SSA will prove Obama filed for a SSN in 1977 as permanent legal resident alien. For anyone that is not an Obot, a former green card holder and current citizen of the U.S. is not a natural born citizen.

    That has to be the biggest crock of unsubstantiated bull you’ve posted to date.

  131. avatar
    John Reilly January 16, 2015 at 9:01 am #

    SvenMagnussen: Obama’s Certificate of Naturalization was cancelled by U.S. Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey in 2008. A cancelled certificate does not modify the citizenship status of the person the certificate had been issued to. 8 USC Section 1453.
    A careful review of Obama’s NUMIDENT on file with the SSA will prove Obama filed for a SSN in 1977 as permanent legal resident alien. For anyone that is not an Obot, a former green card holder and current citizen of the U.S. is not a natural born citizen.

    And you, Sven have evidence of these things, right? Evidence you can post right here, right? Our colleague Bovril has even told you how to acquire such evidence. And I’m quite confident that Doc would post it, so we could all see it.

    When do you think you will post it? Would today be too soon?

  132. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 16, 2015 at 9:03 am #

    John Reilly: And you, Sven have evidence of these things, right? Evidence you can post right here, right? Our colleague Bovril has even told you how to acquire such evidence. And I’m quite confident that Doc would post it, so we could all see it.

    When do you think you will post it? Would today be too soon?

    Give him some time to edit his blog then claim someone hacked it first.

  133. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy January 16, 2015 at 9:17 am #

    Oh, I think dear Sven has posted bigger crocks of bull than that. That was just a family-sized crock of bull, not the giant economy size. Sven has posted under 63 different screen names (some slight variants) that I know of.

    “Almost Famous”
    BadAssMoFoTooOld4Arguendo
    “Barkahizeristan Misdirect”
    “Barkahizeristan Misdirect:”
    Bob’sNewFriend
    causehezaGangsta
    CousinEsther
    DanDraper
    “Det. Cliff Hanger”
    “Dick Whitman”
    “Dick Whitman II”
    “Dick Whtiman”
    Dick_Whitman
    DickDraper
    DickWhitman
    “Don Draper”
    “Dr. David Goliath”
    “Dr. David Goliath (not Sven Magnussen)”
    DrunkenObot
    DrunkenObots
    “FlameThrower Extraordinaire”
    FlameThrowerExtraordinaire
    FTE
    “Hormone Stallone”
    IcanChangeMyScreenName?
    IcanChangeMyScreenNameCousinBill
    IheArtObots
    ImaPerrybot
    “Ima Obot”
    ImaObot
    “Imogene Obot”
    InfloriousBuzzard
    IngloriousBasterd
    IngloriousBasturd
    IngloriousBusterd
    IngloriousBuzzard
    IngloriusBasterd
    LikeDaTerminatorDaStoryWon’tDie
    MarvelousMarvAlbert
    MuhammadMcLovin
    “Muhommad McLovin”
    MuhommadMcLovin
    MuhommandMcLovin
    MysteryMessiahTheatre
    “Nate Farmer”
    “Next to the Last Samurai”
    “Not Enough Hugs as a Child”
    ObotsRCruel
    ObotsREvil
    PennsylvaniaAvenue
    “Pretty in Pink”
    Resign_Soebarkah_Resign
    “Second to the Last Samurai”
    ShapeShipper
    SixToeMoe
    “Sven Magnussen”
    SvenMagnussen
    SvenMagnusssen
    SvenMagussen
    SvenMangussen
    SwampMop
    “Walter White”
    WhoDaFlockIsSoebarkah

    realist: That has to be the biggest crock of unsubstantiated bull you’ve posted to date.

  134. avatar
    Yoda January 16, 2015 at 9:19 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Give him some time to edit his blog then claim someone hacked it first.

    I am sure that it will be “any day now”.

  135. avatar
    Notorial Dissent January 16, 2015 at 9:25 am #

    Svenski, thanks again for playing, and allowing me the opportunity to point out once again that you are a completely and utterly ignorant fool.

    The school registration is dispositive of the fact that Obama went to that school, and nothing more, it is not a legal document, it is simply a record kept in the course of everyday activity by the school. My suspicion is that as the assumed child of an Indonesian father, the school assumed he was Indonesian since that would have been the default response by most parents, and probably never asked, they either asked or were told that he was born in HI.

    If there were a Certificate of Naturalization, canceled or otherwise, where is it? The answer of course, is that you are lying once again, as there is not, and never was such a document.

    The rest of your inane drivel, is of course, just that.

  136. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 16, 2015 at 9:52 am #

    Yes Doc we’re well aware that like most birthers Sven suffers from multiple personality disorder.

  137. avatar
    The Magic M January 16, 2015 at 10:06 am #

    SvenMagnussen: Obama’s Certificate of Naturalization was cancelled by U.S. Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey in 2008.

    That’s a very specific claim without a shred of evidence. Clear proof of you being either a deliberate liar or a certified nutcase (and not just a political wingnut).

    The people in my country who claim that then-Secretary of State James Baker voided our Constitution in 1989 make more sense.

    Then again, from a purely logical viewpoint, your statement (not your premise!) is true since any statement about a non-existing document is true (as it’s evidently not possible to prove the opposite without having the non-existing document).
    Just like “The ruling that pronounced you, Sven, my wife was signed by Ronald Reagan and the Pope”. True statement.

  138. avatar
    RewriteOurWorld January 16, 2015 at 10:41 am #

    Keith: ‘believe’ is a rather strong word.

    I was actually thinking the same thing. I should have used the word “suspect.”

    Anyhow, for those of you who don’t know where the info relating to amended/supplemental birth certificates and the year 2006 that Mark Gillar has mentioned is coming from, look here: https://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/amendment-confirmation-for-dummies/

  139. avatar
    Arthur B. January 16, 2015 at 10:57 am #

    RewriteOurWorld: Anyhow, for those of you who don’t know where the info relating to amended/supplemental birth certificates and the year 2006 that Mark Gillar has mentioned is coming from, look here: https://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/amendment-confirmation-for-dummies/

    Your source is Butterdezillion??

  140. avatar
    RewriteOurWorld January 16, 2015 at 11:09 am #

    Arthur B.: Your source is Butterdezillion??

    Not my source. I didn’t even know about the page until VERY recently. All I’m saying is that’s where I believe Mark Gillar is getting the year 2006.

  141. avatar
    gorefan January 16, 2015 at 11:10 am #

    RewriteOurWorld:

    butterdezillion.wordpress.com

    One of the many problems with Butterdezillion’s stuff is her assumption that the DOH was required to use certain magic language in their response to her. It’s the whole “they didn’t say it the way I want them too therefore they have indirectly confirmed I’m right.”

  142. avatar
    gorefan January 16, 2015 at 11:17 am #

    RewriteOurWorld: Not my source. I didn’t even know about the page until VERY recently. All I’m saying is that’s where I believe Mark Gillar is getting the year 2006.

    I don’t recall Jessie Koike being part of butter’s fantasy. What were his public and private statements you mentioned previously?

  143. avatar
    Arthur B. January 16, 2015 at 11:17 am #

    RewriteOurWorld: Arthur B.: Your source is Butterdezillion??

    ROW: Not my source.

    Sorry, my mistake. I thought you were finally answering my questions — to repeat them, “What evidence do you have to support your stated claims that “the birth certificate has been amended” and “the current certificate is not a correct representation of the facts”?” And, “What did Jesse say that struck you not just as evidence, but in fact as the strongest evidence you have in this matter?”

    Would you address them please?

  144. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater January 16, 2015 at 12:28 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: Anyhow, for those of you who don’t know where the info relating to amended/supplemental birth certificates and the year 2006 that Mark Gillar has mentioned is coming from, look here: https://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/amendment-confirmation-for-dummies/

    Nowhere in the crazy cack that is butterdezillion’s article is there proof to support the “suspect” of an amendment. You seemed so sure before now it seems you have nothing to cause you to think the BC was suspect.

  145. avatar
    CarlOrcas January 16, 2015 at 1:34 pm #

    bovril:
    So Doc how do we reconcile the latest CT from BullSh#t Extreme and his obsession that you are in fact a REAL doctor, Dr Chris Kaufmann of Franklin, PA.

    Can you now prescribe some anti-psychotics to the denizens of Gerbil Fever..?

    It looks like BR is even tiring of BSE. See the Rush Limbaugh thread.

  146. avatar
    CarlOrcas January 16, 2015 at 1:53 pm #

    RewriteOurWorld: We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

    I must say, I enjoy having a conversation like this instead of people just calling others “idiots.” I find it refreshing and far more productive. It’s totally different than BR where the “birthers” just call Doc. C names and think they’ve won an argument.

    You’re absolutely right….there is a world of difference between this site and BR.

    With that in mind it would help if you answered some of the questions – with details and examples – about why you are skeptical.

  147. avatar
    CarlOrcas January 16, 2015 at 2:13 pm #

    SvenMagnussen: Obama’s Certificate of Naturalization was cancelled by U.S. Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey in 2008. A cancelled certificate does not modify the citizenship status of the person the certificate had been issued to. 8 USC Section 1453.

    A careful review of Obama’s NUMIDENT on file with the SSA will prove Obama filed for a SSN in 1977 as permanent legal resident alien. For anyone that is not an Obot, a former green card holder and current citizen of the U.S. is not a natural born citizen.

    Show us.

  148. avatar
    interestedbystander January 16, 2015 at 2:26 pm #

    RWOW – please stop digging, just fess up to birfin without suporting evidense and get it over with. Then folks might be more polite. It’s worth it – you’ll learn a lot here.

    A nit pick – does anyone else prefer the usage of “you have no evidense” over “you have no proof”? The latter sounds like a circumstantial case exists, and with birthers, there is rarely even that. Maybe it’s a US vs UK English thing but it always rankles with me. Sorry.

  149. avatar
    CarlOrcas January 16, 2015 at 2:33 pm #

    interestedbystander: A nit pick – does anyone else prefer the usage of “you have no evidense” over “you have no proof”? The latter sounds like a circumstantial case exists, and with birthers, there is rarely even that. Maybe it’s a US vs UK English thing but it always rankles with me. Sorry.

    Strikes me that you can’t have “proof” without “evidence”.

    And, of course, wild questions and baseless speculation are not evidence.

  150. avatar
    bovril January 16, 2015 at 2:50 pm #

    Oh Sven, even a cancelled Certificate of Naturalization is still available as per the details I provided previously.

    Off you hop, surely this central tenet of your drivel is important enough to track down..?