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Arpaio on the hot seat tomorrow

imageUnless an 11th hour agreement is reached, my prediction will be proven wrong, and Joe Arpaio will face a contempt of court hearing in Room 602, Sandra Day O’Connor Courthouse. The hearing is scheduled to last 4 days.

The hearing takes place amid a storm of bad press:

Will Sheriff Joe plead the 5th Amendment?

Tune in tomorrow for the next episode of As the Spit Turns.

I nipped by the Howard Taft Online Law School (actually, I just visited Lawyers.com), to ask the question of whether Sheriff Arpaio can refuse to answer questions under the Constitutional protection of the 5th Amendment against self-incrimination. Normally the 5th Amendment doesn’t apply to civil matters, but in this instance I understand that criminal charges are on the table, albeit unlikely. The second point, is that the 5th Amendment doesn’t allow an accused to refuse to answer selected questions, but rather is an all or nothing affair regarding testimony. Either Arpaio testifies, or he refuses. For a somewhat different view, interpreting the 5th’s protections more broadly, see “You can plead the fifth in the middle of a civil lawsuit.”

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209 Responses to Arpaio on the hot seat tomorrow

  1. avatar
    Pete April 20, 2015 at 8:23 pm #

    > Members of Arpaio’s smuggling squad accused of wrongdoing

    I hadn’t heard of Arpaio’s smuggling squad until now. What do they smuggle?

  2. avatar
    Pete April 20, 2015 at 8:31 pm #

    Silly me. I should’ve consulted the article. The information is right there.

    They smuggle heroin, other drugs, fake IDs, confiscated real IDs, weapons, and illegal aliens.

    I don’t know why the operation was disbanded. It sounds like it was pretty successful to me.

  3. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 20, 2015 at 9:02 pm #

    I’m gonna need to pop a lot of corn for this.

  4. avatar
    Rickey April 20, 2015 at 9:14 pm #

    It takes two parties to reach a settlement, and my reading is that the plaintiffs aren’t interested in settling. They smell blood.

  5. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 20, 2015 at 9:16 pm #

    Rickey:
    It takes two parties to reach a settlement, and my reading is that the plaintiffs aren’t interested in settling. They smell blood.

    I assumed Apraio’s turned to powder years ago.

  6. avatar
    Curious George April 20, 2015 at 9:32 pm #

    Add one more death in Arpaio’s tent city to the mix.

    http://m.fox19.com/fox19/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:1xTJ8Blt

  7. avatar
    Curious George April 20, 2015 at 9:42 pm #

    Try this link.

    http://meredithaz.worldnow.com/story/28841795/inmate-dies-at-mcsos-tent-city

  8. avatar
    alg April 20, 2015 at 11:50 pm #

    Arpaio is toast. He knows it. If there is any substance to the Dennis Montgomery story, count on the revelations being shared at the hearing. Frankly, conducting a retaliatory “investigation” against a federal judge should result in criminal charges.

  9. avatar
    Notorial Dissent April 21, 2015 at 12:15 am #

    I would bet that anything having to do with Montgomery is going to be well off the chat list as far as the Shurf is concerned. I can’t imagine he would want anything having to do with that coming out any more than they want anything from Hayes ever seeing the light of day. Which isn’t to say that some enterprising party may not bring it up.

  10. avatar
    roadburner April 21, 2015 at 7:25 am #

    no joe, pointing off to the side of the judge with an index finger and looking stern won’t get you off.

    and if you continue to fail to release your omniverse dissolving evidence, then fowl-con and his friends will start saying it’s a secret muslim gang sign because you are in league with the obots.

  11. avatar
    Punchmaster via Mobile April 21, 2015 at 8:28 am #

    You know, I fully expected Gerbil Report to be in full blown damage control mode for Shurfjoke by now. Running constant pro-Joe articles and the like. Maybe GR’s admin has seen the light.

  12. avatar
    Reality Check April 21, 2015 at 9:01 am #

    I very much doubt that. I think it is more like”if we ignore this it will go away”. You haven’t heard Gallups mention it either.

    Punchmaster via Mobile: Maybe GR’s admin has seen the light.

  13. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 21, 2015 at 10:04 am #

    Punchmaster via Mobile: I fully expected Gerbil Report to be in full blown damage control mode for Shurfjoke by now.

    I simply assumed they would pimp it as “proof” that Arpaio is “onto something” (because “they” want to “silence” him), or at least as more hope that A/Z are going to release their stuff any day now “because ‘they’ p*ssed him off now”, or something.

  14. avatar
    Nancy R Owens April 21, 2015 at 10:09 am #

    “….. are in league with the obots.”

    Ya think? Duh….

    roadburner:
    no joe, pointing off to the side of the judge with an index finger and looking stern won’t get you off.

    and if you continue to fail to release your omniverse dissolving evidence, then fowl-con and his friends will start saying it’s a secret muslim gang sign because you are in league with the obots.

  15. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 21, 2015 at 10:19 am #

    In any case, is it safe to assume that Shurfjoke’s career is pretty much over?

  16. avatar
    Rickey April 21, 2015 at 10:32 am #

    The problem with Joe taking the Fifth, even if he can legally do it, is that he has to show cause why he shouldn’t be held in contempt, and he can’t do that if he refuses to testify. Judge Snow would then throw the book at him (which he may do anyway).

  17. avatar
    Rickey April 21, 2015 at 10:33 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    In any case, is it safe to assume that Shurfjoke’s career is pretty much over?

    The fact that the Arizona Republic has turned on him does not bode well for him.

  18. avatar
    Jim April 21, 2015 at 11:06 am #

    My guess on Arpaio’s testimony…

    32 – “I assigned that to someone else”
    16- “I don’t know”
    28 – “It’s not my fault”
    1,685 – “I don’t remember”

  19. avatar
    donna April 21, 2015 at 12:44 pm #

    2013 In a recent appearance on Fox 10, a local Phoenix affiliate, the Sheriff explained that “little by little,” he’s taking his prison system vegetarian. “There will be no more meat on the menu,” said Arapaio, “we’ll save $100,000.”

    Yahoo News reports, the jail will replace meat with protein-rich soy. Arapaio defended his decision to Fox 10, donning a chef’s hat and endorsing one soy and vegetable dish. “It looks great. It looks like stew,” declared Arpaio. “I’m getting hungry.” However, the affiliate’s reporter wasn’t sold, pointing out that many of the carrots in the “stew” were brown, and the soy looked like “wood chips.”

    “Oh, that’s probably just dirt,” replied Arpaio. “Don’t worry about that.”

    http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/09/27/americas-toughest-sheriff-takes-meat-off-jail-menu/

  20. avatar
    wrecking ball April 21, 2015 at 1:05 pm #

    just noticed this in the comments on an editorial about arpaio:

    “Susan Daniels · Top Commenter
    How about an explanation about how much money the Cold Case Posse to in and how it was spent!”

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/editorial/2015/04/19/sheriff-says-bologna-baloneys/25949283/

  21. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 21, 2015 at 3:00 pm #

    wrecking ball:
    just noticed this in the comments on an editorial about arpaio:

    “Susan Daniels ·Top Commenter
    How about an explanation about how much money the Cold Case Posse to in and how it was spent!”

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/editorial/2015/04/19/sheriff-says-bologna-baloneys/25949283/

    She’s probably upset that a loser like Mark Gillar got a piece of the cash while she didn’t.

  22. avatar
    Reality Check April 21, 2015 at 3:41 pm #

    Ms Daniels made a similar comment here last year but never really followed up on it.

    Susan Daniels June 18, 2014 at 8:05 pm #

    Have they really accomplished anything except soliciting funds?

  23. avatar
    Rickey April 21, 2015 at 6:22 pm #

    It looks like the MCSO isn’t the only police force in Arizona which is profiling minorities.

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2015/04/driving_while_black_arrest_leads_to_lawsuit_against_tempe.php

  24. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 21, 2015 at 6:41 pm #

    One significant difference between invoking the 5th amendment in civil vs criminal proceedings: Only in a criminal proceeding is it impermissible for the jury/judge to draw an adverse inference when the right is invoked. In contrast, in a civil case, a judge/jury is free to draw an adverse inference, i.e., infer that the witness is invoking the 5th because he/she has something to hide.

    Here’s a pretty decent article on the subject.

  25. avatar
    wrecking ball April 21, 2015 at 6:54 pm #

    so, wha’appen?

  26. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 21, 2015 at 7:24 pm #

    Some news:

    “Deputy: Arpaio told me to defy court order” http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/04/21/arpaio-contempt-hearing-opens-abrk/26121557/

  27. avatar
    Jim April 21, 2015 at 8:07 pm #

    Explosive first day…hope the Sheriff brought a few changes of depends. 😆

  28. avatar
    Curious George April 21, 2015 at 8:25 pm #

    J.D. Sue
    April 21, 2015
    Some news:

    “Deputy: Arpaio told me to defy court order”

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/04/21/arpaio-contempt-hearing-opens-abrk/26121557/

    And Crickets over at Birther Report. “If we ignore it, it didn’t happen.” Better expose the Reed Hayes’ report before Arpaio is held in criminal contempt and meets the U.S. Marshals.

  29. avatar
    Nancy R Owens April 21, 2015 at 9:32 pm #

    OMG! So true. A typical ZulloMoore/Arpaio/BR tactic.

    Ignore the Obama birth certificate forger (Nancy Ruth Owens) and all of her confessions so it never happened, she’s crazy, she likes to mess with people’s heads, our “evidence” proves otherwise, never heard of her, etc.

    Curious George:
    J.D. Sue
    April 21, 2015
    Some news:

    “Deputy: Arpaio told me to defy court order”

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/04/21/arpaio-contempt-hearing-opens-abrk/26121557/

    And Crickets over at Birther Report. “If we ignore it, it didn’t happen.” Better expose the Reed Hayes’ report before Arpaio is held in criminal contempt and meets the U.S. Marshals.

  30. avatar
    Yoda April 21, 2015 at 10:04 pm #

    Who has the popcorn concession?

  31. avatar
    Thomas Brown April 21, 2015 at 10:21 pm #

    Nancy, poor thing, you are messing with precisely nobody’s head. Nobody takes you seriously.

    As my grandma used to say, “If you had a brain you’d be dangerous.”

  32. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 21, 2015 at 10:52 pm #

    Judge Show told Arpaio’s lawyers that he would protect Arpaio from having to incriminate himself. The 5th is very much on the table in this case.

    Rickey: The problem with Joe taking the Fifth, even if he can legally do it, is that he has to show cause why he shouldn’t be held in contempt, and he can’t do that if he refuses to testify.

  33. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 21, 2015 at 11:47 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Judge Show told Arpaio’s lawyers that he would protect Arpaio from having to incriminate himself

    Doesn’t that defeat the purpose though? How do you hold someone responsible for their actions, while giving them the means to not have to own up to what they had a hand in?

    KKKlayman was allowed to plead the fifth, and he’s still a free idiot.

  34. avatar
    Rickey April 21, 2015 at 11:50 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Judge Show told Arpaio’s lawyers that he would protect Arpaio from having to incriminate himself. The 5th is very much on the table in this case.

    I haven’t seen any reports to that effect, but I don’t know how Arpaio can rebut the testimony of the plaintiffs’ witnesses by refusing to answer questions.

  35. avatar
    RanTalbott April 22, 2015 at 3:43 am #

    In other bad news, Arpaio may lose another defense attorney.

    Tom Liddy, who works for the county attorney’s office, said he would ask to withdraw because a recent appeals court ruling that the county, not the MCSO, should be the defendant in the case creates a possible conflict of interest.

    And one of the ACLU’s lawyers said they have more evidence to present “showing that Arpaio’s violations were more than just mistakes”.

  36. avatar
    Curious George April 22, 2015 at 7:29 am #

    April 21, 2015

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    “Judge Show told Arpaio’s lawyers that he would protect Arpaio from having to incriminate himself. The 5th is very much on the table in this case.”

    Rickey

    “I haven’t seen any reports to that effect, but I don’t know how Arpaio can rebut the testimony of the plaintiffs’ witnesses by refusing to answer questions.”

    I have it on good authority that Judge Snow’s discussion about protecting Arpaio’s Fifth Amendment rights can be found in the court record.

  37. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 22, 2015 at 7:40 am #

    Nancy R Owens:
    OMG! So true. A typical ZulloMoore/Arpaio/BR tactic.

    Ignore the Obama birth certificate forger (Nancy Ruth Owens) and all of her confessions so it never happened, she’s crazy, she likes to mess with people’s heads, our “evidence” proves otherwise, never heard of her, etc.

    Ignore nothing since you didn’t forge anything you’ve never presented ant evidence to support your delusions

  38. avatar
    RanTalbott April 22, 2015 at 7:42 am #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: How do you hold someone responsible for their actions, while giving them the means to not have to own up to what they had a hand in?

    By presenting evidence and testimony that proves your allegations.

  39. avatar
    RanTalbott April 22, 2015 at 8:04 am #

    Reality Check: I think it is more like”if we ignore this it will go away”.

    Sounds right to me.

    Although GR isn’t running any stories either way, the gerbils occasionally post comments wondering whether this is the “legal hurdle”.

    But Gallups started pushing that story long before this hearing was even seen as a possibility. And Arpaio’s lawyers have to be telling him that it would be suicide to trot out the Montgomery crap while the case is ongoing. So maybe the trial as a whole is one of the “hurdles” (Gallups has repeatedly said there’s more than one).

    Which would be too bad: the MCSO will be under court supervision for a long time, and the “universe-shattering evidence” could well be more entertaining than all their previous screw-ups combined. I’d hate to have wait almost two years for Arpaio’s retirement to see it.

  40. avatar
    Reality Check April 22, 2015 at 9:25 am #

    If Arapio is bound over for trial on criminal contempt GR/BR will move to the meme that AZ was getting close to Obama so he had to do something to silence AZ. The nice thing about lying your ass off is that you can fashion a story to cover any set of circumstances. The Gerbils will fall in line behind whatever lie is told.

  41. avatar
    bgansel9 April 22, 2015 at 10:31 am #

    I just threw 350 of these this morning:

    http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/?tfp_display=gallery&tfp_sort_by=title&tfp_region=USA&tfp_id=AZ_AR

    More in depth story also available here:

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/04/21/arpaio-contempt-hearing-opens-abrk/26121557/

    The big news: “Sgt. Brett Palmer testified that Arpaio had personally instructed him to continue enforcing federal immigration law after Judge G. Murray Snow had prohibited the practice.”

    Here’s the Phoenix New Times take on it: http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2015/04/mcso_sergeant_implicates_arpaio_in_willful_defiance_of_federal_judge.php

    I think a deal is low on the outcome list now.

  42. avatar
    Rickey April 22, 2015 at 11:35 am #

    Curious George:
    April 21, 2015

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    “Judge Show told Arpaio’s lawyers that he would protect Arpaio from having to incriminate himself. The 5th is very much on the table in this case.”

    Rickey

    “I haven’t seen any reports to that effect, but I don’t know how Arpaio can rebut the testimony of the plaintiffs’ witnesses by refusing to answer questions.”

    I have it on good authority that Judge Snow’s discussion about protecting Arpaio’s Fifth Amendment rights can be found in the court record.

    I wasn’t doubting it. I just had not seen it mentioned before.

    Nevertheless, Arpaio has a difficult decision to make. Sgt. Palmer has testified that Arpaio told him to continue to detain suspected undocumented Latinos, and Brian Sands testified that Arpaio told him that they could continue to bring suspected aliens to ICE even if they were not charged with a state crime. I assume that there is going to be more testimony along those lines. The only way to rebut that testimony is for Arpaio to testify.

    A witness can take the Fifth in a civil case, which this proceeding is, but in a civil case the Court can make an inference of guilt when a witness takes the Fifth. It looks to me as if Arpaio is screwed either way.

  43. avatar
    Curious George April 22, 2015 at 1:32 pm #

    Rickey:

    “It looks to me as if Arpaio is screwed either way.”

    Yes indeed.

  44. avatar
    Jim April 22, 2015 at 2:00 pm #

    Looks like the Sheriff is scheduled to take the stand Thursday…unless he’s on his knees begging for some kind of deal from the judge.

    http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/contempt-of-court-hearing-for-arizona-sheriff-enters-2nd-day

  45. avatar
    Keith April 22, 2015 at 2:51 pm #

    bgansel9: I just threw 350 of these this morning:

    http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/?tfp_display=gallery&tfp_sort_by=title&tfp_region=USA&tfp_id=AZ_AR

    I’m gonna add “The Monkey Wrench Gang” to my “Its time to reread this” pile.

  46. avatar
    Rickey April 22, 2015 at 9:20 pm #

    Arpaio is using the “I do not remember” defense.

    http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/contempt-of-court-hearing-for-arizona-sheriff-enters-2nd-day

  47. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 22, 2015 at 9:37 pm #

    Rickey: Arpaio is using the “I do not remember” defense.

    —-

    That’s what I like to call “the Ronald Reagan defense”

  48. avatar
    gorefan April 22, 2015 at 10:40 pm #

    J.D. Sue: —-

    That’s what I like to call“the Ronald Reagan defense”

    Doesn’t that leave the sergeant’s testimony unrebutted?

  49. avatar
    alg April 22, 2015 at 10:46 pm #

    There is no way Sheriff Joe is going to survive this. We are now looking at criminal contempt charges. The media is on this like a rabid dog. We have an officer of the law willfully violating a federal court order. His attorney just resigned – again for apparent ethical concerns. The events are unprecedented. This is going very badly for the good Sheriff. Where is the cold case posse when we need them most? 🙂

  50. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 22, 2015 at 11:29 pm #

    gorefan:
    That’s what I like to call“the Ronald Reagan defense”

    Doesn’t that leave the sergeant’s testimony unrebutted?

    —–
    It may. It’s not really possible to evaluate without hearing all the testimony.

  51. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 23, 2015 at 12:50 am #

    I think the reason birdboy isn’t saying much about Shurfjoke right now, is because he’s too busy crapping his pants over this “jade helm” thing. Its the new conspiracy flavor of the month, and Falcon is flailing like an idiot about it.

  52. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 23, 2015 at 5:23 am #

    alg: There is no way Sheriff Joe is going to survive this.

    Any day now. I’m not holding my breath. (Just like Orly still hasn’t been declared a vexatious litigant.)
    And even if he gets some sort of punishment, who says he won’t be back in a couple of years, just like Roy Moore?

  53. avatar
    RanTalbott April 23, 2015 at 8:01 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in): And even if he gets some sort of punishment, who says he won’t be back in a couple of years, just like Roy Moore?

    Age. And the voters: in 2012, he got under 51% of the vote in the county. In 2013, his approval rating in the county was under 40% (haven’t found a 2014 poll). And that was before this scandal, and before a big chunk of the $14M lawsuit settlements. If he hasn’t already dropped below 30% approval, the court case will put him there.

    I’m sure he’ll find gigs as a pundit and/or rubber-chicken-circuit speaker, but he won’t be elected to any office he’d be willing to hold in this state.

  54. avatar
    Punchmaster via Mobile April 23, 2015 at 8:07 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in): who says he won’t be back in a couple of years, just like Roy Moore?

    At his age, time isn’t exactly his friend.

  55. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 12:32 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in): And even if he gets some sort of punishment, who says he won’t be back in a couple of years, just like Roy Moore?

    While Maricopa County voters tend to vote conservative, they are not completely stupid. When Russell Pearce was bounced out of the state senate after penning SB 1070, he tried to make a comeback in a recall election and it didn’t work. Honestly, I think Arpaio will suffer the same sort of fall from grace.

    Arpaio did manage to fend off a recall (made sure the group couldn’t gather the votes needed to recall), but, that was before all of this information came out (and the true cost of his policies started climbing higher and higher).

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/arizona-recall-why-russell-pearce-lost/2011/11/09/gIQALj6a5M_blog.html

  56. avatar
    Reality Check April 23, 2015 at 1:20 pm #

    Stephen Lemons said Arpaio is not invoking the Fifth Amendment but is using the “I don’t recall” strategy interspersed with throwing his attorneys and command staff under the bus for not making sure the MCSO complied with the court order. According to Sterngard at the Fogbow Arpaio might have waived attorney client privilege when he blamed his attorneys for the mistakes.

  57. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 23, 2015 at 1:42 pm #

    Reality Check: According to Sterngard at the Fogbow Arpaio might have waived attorney client privilege when he blamed his attorneys for the mistakes.

    That would certainly be an interesting development especially given Tom Liddy’s attempted resignation from the case yesterday because he knows confidential information and it conflicts now with his work as a county attorney.

    If, for the sake of discussion, Arpaio has waived attorney client privilege in this case would that also extend to any possible criminal contempt proceedings?

    Things are getting complicated for the sheriff.

  58. avatar
    Jim April 23, 2015 at 2:36 pm #

    https://twitter.com/stephenlemons

    Stephen Lemons @stephenlemons · 1h 1 hour ago

    Plaintiffs @RealSheriffJoe trial played clip from Joe Show doc where Joe says” I’m amazed at what I get away with”

  59. avatar
    Kate April 23, 2015 at 2:46 pm #

    Jim:
    https://twitter.com/stephenlemons

    Stephen Lemons @stephenlemons·1h 1 hour ago

    Plaintiffs @RealSheriffJoe trial played clip from Joe Show doc where Joe says” I’m amazed at what I get away with”

    Arpaio’s ego has led to his downfall. I can’t imagine the Judge was all too thrilled to hear Arpaio bragging about what he has gotten away with or his outright refusal to obey the court order. He’s long past retirement age. Can the city council remove him from office due to his legal troubles and the problems he’s brought on with his administration?

  60. avatar
    Notorial Dissent April 23, 2015 at 3:25 pm #

    It would have to be the county commissioners or whatever they’re called in AZ, and I don’t know that they have the authority. Some AZ lawyer could say for sure.

  61. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 3:32 pm #

    Kate: Can the city council remove him from office due to his legal troubles and the problems he’s brought on with his administration?

    Joe is a County official. The County Board of Supervisors would have to do that (or perhaps our new Republican governor). Joe and the former County supervisors have very little love for each other (he’s sued the Board both as an entity and also some of the members separately), but some of the new board members don’t seem to have that history. I am not sure what they will do. Two Supervisors have a history with Arpaio. Steve Gallardo has called for Arpaio’s ouster. Andy Kunasek has received a $123,000 settlement due to Arpaio suing him (a former county supervisor, Mary Rose Wilcox, who ran for congress and lost in the Democratic Primary, also received a settlement) – http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20130115maricopa-county-supervisors-kunasek-settlement.html

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/ejmontini/2015/03/23/judge-murray-snow-racial-profiling-aclu-lawsuit-contempt-sheriff-joe-arpaio/25208605/

  62. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 3:44 pm #

    Sheriff Joe endorsed Governor Ducey last year and now they have a spat going regarding a new private prison that Arpaio opposes: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/02/arizonas-new-governor-just-cut-education-funding-build-big-new-private-prison

    If Arpaio is removed by Ducey (don’t expect it, but perhaps), you can be sure he’ll be thinking of his prison while he’s firing Joe.

  63. avatar
    Jim April 23, 2015 at 3:44 pm #

    Lemon’s updating again…

    Stephen Lemons @stephenlemons · 9m 9 minutes ago

    So weird to see my own article on @RealSheriffJoe investigating judge Snow read by Snow in ct. Joe confirmed all http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2014/06/joe-arpaio-investigating-judge-murray-

  64. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 4:42 pm #

    Well, I now think the county just may decide to get rid of him, if Governor Ducey doesn’t beat them to it: http://www.azcentral.com/story/ejmontini/2015/04/23/sheriff-joe-arpaio-judge-murray-snow-civil-contempt-lawsuit-uncle-sams/26244115/

    This lawsuit is going to be huge, and cost the county a LOT of money, and Joe has already cost this county a huge sum of money in lawsuits. I guess this will be Joe’s parting gift to the people that elected him.

  65. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 5:11 pm #

    Arizona Republic just reported that Arpaio hired a P.I. to investigate Judge Snow’s wife:

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/04/23/joe-arpaio-apologizes-contempt-hearing-day-three-abrk/26240715/

  66. avatar
    Arthur April 23, 2015 at 5:23 pm #

    I hope that someone is alerting the folks at Birther Report that Old Joe is finally getting his day in court.

  67. avatar
    Dave April 23, 2015 at 5:48 pm #

    Can we hope that Arpaio will point out that Judge Snow has no authority because Obama’s birth certificate is forged?

  68. avatar
    wrecking ball April 23, 2015 at 5:57 pm #

    “Snow additionally questioned Arpaio about county funds being paid to posse members conducting private investigations, …

    The answers to those questions are at this point unclear, based on Arpaio’s responses.”

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/04/23/joe-arpaio-apologizes-contempt-hearing-day-three-abrk/26240715/

  69. avatar
    DSM April 23, 2015 at 5:59 pm #

    At long last matters have circled back in the direction of Dennis Montgomery and, what I expect, constitutes the basis of the “universe shattering” information touted by Zullow.

    I sincerely hope that plaintiffs’ counsel and Judge Snow force Arpaio to finally disgorge the particulars of the Montgomery affair which surely involved much more than an investigation of the Judge’s wife.

  70. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 23, 2015 at 6:46 pm #

    bgansel9: Joe is a County official. The County Board of Supervisors would have to do that (or perhaps our new Republican governor).

    County sheriff is a constitutional officer in Arizona…..accountable only to the voters…which means he can only be removed by recall. One recall effort against Arpaio failed a couple years ago to secure enough signatures to get on the ballot.

    Neither the county board of supervisors or the governor can remove him from office.

  71. avatar
    RanTalbott April 23, 2015 at 7:36 pm #

    Arthur: I hope that someone is alerting the folks at Birther Report that Old Joe is finally getting his day in court.

    Yup: someone called “JockPatriot” has posted a couple of comments on the latest stories saying “This is outrageous, now they’re going after Zullo in the Arpaio case.”

    http://www.birtherreport.com/2015/04/final-nail-barack-obama-and-death-of.html#IDComment966291487
    http://www.birtherreport.com/2015/04/american-thinker-to-gop-candidates.html#IDComment966307407

    Should be fun to watch the responses.

  72. avatar
    john April 23, 2015 at 7:43 pm #

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/04/23/joe-arpaio-apologizes-contempt-hearing-day-three-abrk/26240715/

    “Results confirmed that your wife was in that restaurant,” Arpaio told Snow. “I guess (the investigator) talked to the witness, confirmed that that remark was made.”

    she said Snow “wanted to do everything to make sure I’m not elected.”

    Is the case going to be thrown out? -Bias – Motion to Recuse.

    Or at least Snow’s wife needs to testify.

  73. avatar
    john April 23, 2015 at 8:03 pm #

    Sheriff Joe Arpaio admits to secretly investigating federal contempt judge’s family
    http://ktar.com/22/1828141/Sheriff-Joe-Arpaio-admits-to-secretly-investigating-federal-contempt-judges-family#comments

  74. avatar
    wrecking ball April 23, 2015 at 8:17 pm #

    john:

    she said ….

    no john, arpaio claims that a nameless investigator told somebody that an unknown witness stated that “she said”.

  75. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 8:27 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Neither the county board of supervisors or the governor can remove him from office

    I would think if he was facing prison time, there must be a method to out him but I guess not.

    How about a jail term? Can that remove him or would he run MCSO from federal prison?

    Also, elected officials in Michigan were removed from office by Governor Snyder. Are you SURE there is no emergency protocol to remove a rogue sheriff in Arizona?

  76. avatar
    Kate April 23, 2015 at 8:36 pm #

    CarlOrcas: County sheriff is a constitutional officer in Arizona…..accountable only to the voters…which means he can only be removed by recall. One recall effort against Arpaio failed a couple years ago to secure enough signatures to get on the ballot.

    Neither the county board of supervisors or the governor can remove him from office.

    It looks as if the voters have to hope that Arpaio is shamed into resigning. His arrogance will likely prevent him from doing so. At almost 83 years old, he doesn’t belong in the position he’s in. Let’s hope this actually serves as a wake-up call for voters if Arpaio goes through with his re-election campaign. Although most comment sections I’ve read have a majority against him, there are still a few fans out there that believe he does no wrong. Obviously they don’t know anyone who was violated in the 400+ rape cases that Arpaio didn’t find significant enough to investigate. He’d rather preen in front of the cameras as illegals are hauled into a sheriff’s van. Say goodbye, Joe!

  77. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 8:51 pm #

    Kate: Although most comment sections I’ve read have a majority against him, there are still a few fans out there that believe he does no wrong.

    Probably because our local news stations are so afraid to talk about him on the local news. we’re switching around on all of the local news channels and we can’t find ANYTHING. It’s all over the front page of the local newspaper and in online news stories, but nothing on the television. It’s almost as if the local news stations are afraid to alienate their viewers. (And we have a 5 year anniversary of SB-1070 protest going on right now, it’s breaking news – the perfect opportunity to mention Joe Arpaio and nobody’s doing it! WTH?)

  78. avatar
    john April 23, 2015 at 8:57 pm #

    I really don’t see any wrong Arpaio has done. These judges are corrupt and you must investigate them (Not juries though, they are controlled by the people and there is some control for keeping corrupt people off of them. There is no control especially for federal judges to keep corrupt ones out.). As far as his stance on the illegals, I see so nothing wrong with it and the Judge’s order never made much sense. What part of “Illegal” does anyone not understand. Illegal Aliens have no civil rights or constitutional rights to violate because they aren’t entitled to any. They are here illegally and are therefore vermin or infestations. Round them up and deport them. They are a drain on our resources and bring crime and disease to this country although they will do certain jobs Americans won’t do. Illegal immigration is a real problem in this country and I am glad for people like Sheriff Arpaio to protect our borders the best we can. We need a 1000 Arpaios down near the border. Joe Arpaio for President!

  79. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 9:04 pm #

    He violated a court order against Racial Profiling John, but of course, I expect that you wouldn’t see what Arpaio did wrong.

    If Karma were perfect, you’d come back as a poor black person (maybe female, you should get the misogyny lesson too!) and get the chance to experience racial profiling and see what it’s like. I’ll bet you’d have a much different opinion then.

  80. avatar
    john April 23, 2015 at 9:10 pm #

    bgansel9:
    He violated a court order against Racial Profiling John, but of course, I expect that you wouldn’t see what Arpaio did wrong.

    If Karma were perfect, you’d come back as a poor black person (maybe female, you should get the misogyny lesson too!) and get the chance to experience racial profiling and see what it’s like. I’ll bet you’d have a much different opinion then.

    I have no problem with Racial Profiling. I think it should be done as it is an effective means of insuring safety and and reducing crime. I am sure going to go after a black hoodie before I would go after a little old white lady. Consquently, Latinos who can’t speak English and are illiterate and have no where to go could be good contenders for illegal aliens as opposed to a working professional who speak perfect English and reads well.

  81. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 9:14 pm #

    Here John, let me spell it out for you:

    Targeting people on the street or going to their neighborhoods and setting up sting operations to find people who are here illegally when they have not committed another crime was part of SB-1070 that was struck down by the Supreme Court. They have to catch the person in another illegal act. Arpaio ignored that provision and set up sting operations and profiled people on the street even though he wasn’t allowed to. Do you GET IT NOW? (see page 3, (c) – http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/06/25/scotus.arizona.pdf

  82. avatar
    john April 23, 2015 at 9:15 pm #

    bgansel9:
    He violated a court order against Racial Profiling John, but of course, I expect that you wouldn’t see what Arpaio did wrong.

    If Karma were perfect, you’d come back as a poor black person (maybe female, you should get the misogyny lesson too!) and get the chance to experience racial profiling and see what it’s like. I’ll bet you’d have a much different opinion then.

    In fact, I do believe the failure to perform Racial Profiling likely lead to 911. Had Racial Profiling been performed, the terrorists might have been stopped.

  83. avatar
    john April 23, 2015 at 9:16 pm #

    bgansel9:
    Here John, let me spell it out for you:

    Targeting people on the street or going to their neighborhoods and setting up sting operations to find people who are here illegally when they have not committed another crime was part of SB-1070 that was struck down by the Supreme Court. They have to catch the person in another illegal act.Arpaio ignored that provision and set up sting operations and profiled people on the street even though he wasn’t allowed to. Do you GET IT NOW? (see page 3, (c) –http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/06/25/scotus.arizona.pdf

    So, “Illegal” people who are doing nothing “Illegal”. Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

  84. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 9:16 pm #

    john: I have no problem with Racial Profiling. I think it should be done as it is an effective means of insuring safety and and reducing crime.

    It’s a violation of federal law, per the 14th Amendment. You don’t like our constitution much, do you?

    You think only dark skinned people commit crimes? What ignorance. Karma could teach you a lesson, but, I fear your brain is so atrophied, you’d never learn it.

  85. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 9:21 pm #

    john: So, “Illegal” people who are doing nothing “Illegal”. Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

    Authoritarian mindset doesn’t do anything to advance sensible immigration doctrine. You seem to think that God drew the borders in the sand. He didn’t. The Bible (both the Old and New Testament) say we need to welcome the stranger. Being in the country doesn’t count as an actual crime. They cannot be charged unless they commit another crime.

  86. avatar
    RanTalbott April 23, 2015 at 9:31 pm #

    bgansel9: It’s all over the front page of the local newspaper and in online news stories, but nothing on the television. It’s almost as if the local news stations are afraid to alienate their viewers.

    No, it’s as if they can’t find any graphic video or catchy soundbites to hold the limited attention of their viewers until the next commercial.

    TV has always been a lousy way to get real news about substantive issues. It’s just that now it’s getting more obvious how much it sucks because we have more convenient alternatives.

  87. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 9:34 pm #

    “It’s just that now it’s getting more obvious how much it sucks because we have more convenient alternatives.”

    Wow, you might be right.

    Well, I’m sure I’ll be delivering a juicy headline to about 325 people tomorrow morning. LOL

  88. avatar
    Dave April 23, 2015 at 9:35 pm #

    John, I find your bigoted comments very disheartening. Let me make a few points.

    1. The part of “illegal” that you do not understand is that being in this country illegally does not deprive a person of their Constitutional rights, most of which apply equally to any person in our country. That is clear in both the text of the Constitution and judicial interpretation over the entire history of the country. It may not be what you find reasonable — but that’s what it says, so that’s the law.

    2. They are not vermin, nor are they an infestation, they are people.

    3. When you argue in favor of racial profiling, you do a poor job when you ask us to compare going after a “black hoodie” and a “little old white lady.” I invite you to instead compare going after a “black hoodie” versus a “white hoodie.” Or perhaps you’d prefer to compare the threat posed by a “little old black lady” to a “little old white lady.”

  89. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 9:45 pm #

    Dave: When you argue in favor of racial profiling, you do a poor job when you ask us to compare going after a “black hoodie” and a “little old white lady.” I invite you to instead compare going after a “black hoodie” versus a “white hoodie.” Or perhaps you’d prefer to compare the threat posed by a “little old black lady” to a “little old white lady.”

    I’m sure if John committed an actual crime against another human that exacted a very harsh sentence, he’d dishonestly weasel his way out of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if he used white privilege as an excuse either.

  90. avatar
    RanTalbott April 23, 2015 at 9:48 pm #

    john: There is no control especially for federal judges to keep corrupt ones out.

    Well, nothing except for screening by the President’s staff, FBI background checks, opposition research by political partisans, and confirmation hearings and votes in a Senate where a single member can block a nomination for just about any real or imagined reason.

    john: Consquently, Latinos who can’t speak English and are illiterate and have no where to go could be good contenders for illegal aliens as opposed to a working professional who speak perfect English and reads well.

    It’s a pity that you’ll never be able to appreciate the irony of that sentence-like string of words.

    But thank you for your superb example of why we need a Constitution and a Bill of Rights.

  91. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 9:55 pm #

    john: Consquently, Latinos who can’t speak English and are illiterate and have no where to go could be good contenders for illegal aliens as opposed to a working professional who speak perfect English and reads well.

    I’m sure your ancestors were in this land from the beginning of time and they always spoke English. Do you ever think of anyone else besides yourself? There are old ladies in Wisconsin and Ohio and Pennsylvania who speak exclusive German. Do you hate them too?

  92. avatar
    Rickey April 23, 2015 at 10:07 pm #

    john: So, “Illegal” people who are doing nothing “Illegal”.Sounds like an oxymoron to me.

    First of all, they aren’t “illegal” people. They are undocumented people. Contrary to popular belief, it is not a crime to be an undocumented alien. It is called “unlawful presence,” but unlawful presence is a civil offense, not a criminal offense. Undocumented aliens can be deported, but they cannot be convicted of a crime simply because they are unlawfully present in the United States.

    Improper Entry is a crime, but generally people have to be caught entering the U.S. without authorization in order to be charged with a crime. It is a misdemeanor.

    http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/07/is-illegal-immigration-a-crime-improper-entry-v-unlawful-presence.html

  93. avatar
    James M April 23, 2015 at 10:08 pm #

    bgansel9:
    Well, I now think the county just may decide to get rid of him, if Governor Ducey doesn’t beat them to it: http://www.azcentral.com/story/ejmontini/2015/04/23/sheriff-joe-arpaio-judge-murray-snow-civil-contempt-lawsuit-uncle-sams/26244115/

    This lawsuit is going to be huge, and cost the county a LOT of money, and Joe has already cost this county a huge sum of money in lawsuits. I guess this will be Joe’s parting gift to the people that elected him.

    There isn’t a legislative process that can remove him from office. It would require a ballot initiative and a special election.

    A lot of Arizonans learned about the state’s constitutional processes on such things when the legislature overrode the state’s first medical marijuana law, which led to the second medical marijuana law being passed in a manner that made it impossible for the legislature or the governor to stop it. Similar constraints exist for removing an elected sheriff from office. Basically because he was put into office by a ballot initiative, and not a legislative initiative, he can only be removed by the former.

  94. avatar
    Rickey April 23, 2015 at 10:19 pm #

    john:
    What part of “Illegal” does anyone not understand.Illegal Aliens have no civil rights or constitutional rights to violate because they aren’t entitled to any.

    Your ignorance is appalling.

    Everyone in the United States, whether here legally or not, has civil rights and constitutional rights. If an undocumented alien is arrested and charged with a crime, he or she is entitled to an attorney, is entitled to the presumption of innocence, is protected from self-incrimination, and if convicted is protected from cruel and unusual punishment.

    For someone who claims to love the Constitution, you don’t know it very well.

  95. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 10:33 pm #

    James M: A lot of Arizonans learned about the state’s constitutional processes on such things when the legislature overrode the state’s first medical marijuana law, which led to the second medical marijuana law being passed in a manner that made it impossible for the legislature or the governor to stop it. Similar constraints exist for removing an elected sheriff from office. Basically because he was put into office by a ballot initiative, and not a legislative initiative, he can only be removed by the former.

    Thanks James. I really didn’t keep an eye on the medical marijuana passage. I just saw when it did (and then my landlord put out a notice saying anyone who is using under the state medical marijuana law would be evicted because my landlord only recognizes federal law).

    I will admit, I know very little about how the legal system works, I’m not a legal expert. I was hoping Ducey could remove him at least. I guess not. 🙁 (I don’t know if you saw, our conservative governor okayed same sex adoption today – surprised the heck out of me).

  96. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 23, 2015 at 10:33 pm #

    john: In fact, I do believe the failure to perform Racial Profiling likely lead to 911. Had Racial Profiling been performed, the terrorists might have been stopped.

    wtf are you even talking about? What would have stopped 911 was paying attention to the intelligence that Al Qaida was going to strike in the US. What would have stopped it is if the CIA and FBI talked to each other. The government knew who the hijackers were and had suspicions but failed to act. That had nothing to do with racial profiling.

  97. avatar
    John April 23, 2015 at 10:34 pm #

    James M: There isn’t a legislative process that can remove him from office.It would require a ballot initiative and a special election.

    A lot of Arizonans learned about the state’s constitutional processes on such things when the legislature overrode the state’s first medical marijuana law, which led to the second medical marijuana law being passed in a manner that made it impossible for the legislature or the governor to stop it.Similar constraints exist for removing an elected sheriff from office.Basically because he was put into office by a ballot initiative, and not a legislative initiative, he can only be removed by the former.

    If that’s true, then people are out of luck. They already tried the recall election and it failed. Even if criminal charges were brought against Arpaio, he and his legal time might be able to delay until well past his term end. As far running in the next election Arpaio can if he chooses but in light of everything that happen, Apraio can just assume claim he’s not running again due to his age. Arpaio will be 83 years old. That’s pretty old to be an active Sheriff and people would understand that reason.

  98. avatar
    John April 23, 2015 at 10:36 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: wtf are you even talking about?What would have stopped 911 was paying attention to the intelligence that Al Qaida was going to strike in the US.What would have stopped it is if the CIA and FBI talked to each other.The government knew who the hijackers were and had suspicions but failed to act.That had nothing to do with racial profiling.

    It might have seen suspisious if a bunch of Arabs where taking Flying courses or boarding planes. It might have been fruitful to check such persons out. Too bad it didn’t happen.

  99. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 23, 2015 at 10:37 pm #

    john: Consquently, Latinos who can’t speak English and are illiterate and have no where to go could be good contenders for illegal aliens as opposed to a working professional who speak perfect English and reads well.

    So what are you saying? Are you telling us you’re one of those latinos you have stereotyped since you don’t “speak perfect english and read well”

  100. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 23, 2015 at 10:38 pm #

    john: As far as his stance on the illegals, I see so nothing wrong with it and the Judge’s order never made much sense.

    —-

    John, what does Judge Snow’s so-called stance on “illegals” have to do with this case? All of the plaintiffs in this case are US citizens or other people who were legally present in the U.S.A. This case has nothing to do with people who are here illegally. This case is about what Joe unconstitutionally did to Americans.

  101. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 23, 2015 at 10:38 pm #

    John: It might have seen suspisious if a bunch of Arabs where taking Flying courses or boarding planes.It might have been fruitful to check such persons out.Too bad it didn’t happen.

    What part of we knew about them didn’t you get? It might have been more fruitful to check out people who only wanted to fly planes but not learn how to land them. Racial profiling wouldn’t have made a difference.

  102. avatar
    RanTalbott April 23, 2015 at 10:38 pm #

    John:

    If that’s true, then people are out of luck. They already tried the recall election and it failed.

    It’s a pity more birthers don’t share your attitude: we would’ve avoided a lot of annoying whining from people who didn’t give up after their first 200 or so consecutive failures.

  103. avatar
    Rickey April 23, 2015 at 10:45 pm #

    John: If that’s true, then people are out of luck.They already tried the recall election and it failed.

    There is nothing to prevent them from trying to recall Arpaio again.

  104. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 23, 2015 at 10:49 pm #

    Maybe John doesn’t give a damn that Joe violated the constitutional rights of Americans, so long as John himself wasn’t personally inconvenienced.

    Maybe, if police decided to unconstiutionally search and detain anyone named John, he might feel differently. Since my name isn’t John, why should I care?

    It seem that what John is really saying is that he fears more for his own security than he cares for the constitutional rights of other Americans.

  105. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 23, 2015 at 10:50 pm #

    Anyone else picking up a whiff of panic from john?

  106. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 10:53 pm #

    john: In fact, I do believe the failure to perform Racial Profiling likely lead to 911. Had Racial Profiling been performed, the terrorists might have been stopped.

    Not when 15 of the 19 terrorists were Saudi and Bush 43 was kissing the Saudi prince, soon to be the Saudi king. The Saudis are Wahhabists, and participated in terror funding: http://bit.ly/1aWGmxX

  107. avatar
    Northland10 April 23, 2015 at 10:54 pm #

    So John, I assume you will have not problem being stopped and arrested because you could be a domestic terrorist. The Constitution protections do not apply to you any more because you resemble various right wing white terrorists.

    Too bad for you.

  108. avatar
    bgansel9 April 23, 2015 at 10:55 pm #

    J.D. Sue: It seem that what John is really saying is that he fears more for his own security than he cares for the constitutional rights of other Americans.

    Exactly!

  109. avatar
    Arthur April 23, 2015 at 10:59 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    Anyone else picking up a whiff of panic from john?

    I’d call it more of a stench.

  110. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 23, 2015 at 11:28 pm #

    bgansel9: Are you SURE there is no emergency protocol to remove a rogue sheriff in Arizona?

    As sure as I can be from living there for most of the last 60 years.

    It is quite amazing and maybe this will prompt some changes. They would have to be to the state constitution and voters would have to approve them but Arpaio may finally tip the scale towards change.

  111. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 23, 2015 at 11:31 pm #

    John: If that’s true, then people are out of luck. They already tried the recall election and it failed.

    The attempt was in 2013 and it failed because they didn’t get enough signatures in time to put it on the ballot.

    They can try again tomorrow, john.

  112. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 24, 2015 at 12:15 am #

    john: I have no problem with Racial Profiling. I

    So you support focusing on the people who make up nearly 70% of all those arrested by police?

    Read it and weep: http://tinyurl.com/mzhsdme

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43

    Yes…..white folks make up that vast majority of criminals in America.

  113. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 24, 2015 at 12:25 am #

    bgansel9: Probably because our local news stations are so afraid to talk about him on the local news. we’re switching around on all of the local news channels and we can’t find ANYTHING.

    It’s the top story on Channel 3’s website: http://tinyurl.com/mh2ouhu

    Same at Channel 5: http://tinyurl.com/kkp4gbe

    Channel 10: http://tinyurl.com/m4rf6qa

    Channel 12: http://tinyurl.com/n8potu3

    Channel 15: http://tinyurl.com/mmj7ojt

    I suspect its also on the Spanish language stations.

    So much for them being “afraid” to talk about Arpaio, hmm????

  114. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 24, 2015 at 1:18 am #

    john: I have no problem with Racial Profiling.

    You’re scum, but at least you’re up front about it.

    John: If that’s true, then people are out of luck. They already tried the recall election and it failed.

    Recall elections aren’t like regular ones. They can have another one as soon as they want.

  115. avatar
    RanTalbott April 24, 2015 at 4:11 am #

    For those wondering whether the Dennis Montgomery con would make it into this trial, and whether Arpaio knows he was being conned, the Arizona Republic had this to say about Arpaio’s answers to questions about the New Times article:

    Arpaio said an informant had indicated that the DOJ had been penetrating Arpaio’s e-mails as well as those of local attorneys and judges. Arpaio indicated that Snow was one of the judges but said he later conceded that his informant was unreliable.

    I’d say the use of “penetrating” indicates that he was talking about the “second criminal investigation”, and “unreliable” means he’s figured out it was a con.

    So, at the very least, it’s unlikely there’ll be an “A” in “A/Z Day”. Perhaps we should start calling it “Z Dy”?

  116. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 24, 2015 at 4:56 am #

    RanTalbott: I’d say the use of “penetrating” indicates that he was talking about the “second criminal investigation”, and “unreliable” means he’s figured out it was a con.

    I’m not sure. Montgomery seems like the guy who cons people with alleged super-spy technology, not simply discovering hackings.
    And what was Arpaio going to do, suggest Judge Snow was blackmailed by the DOJ to rule against him?

  117. avatar
    Reality Check April 24, 2015 at 8:24 am #

    What sheer ignorance and stupidity, even by your low standards jy. Judge Snow, an appointee of George W. Bush and a graduate of Brigham Young, is not corrupt. He is just doing his job and applying the law. The law protects judges from being pressured for very obvious reasons. To be appointed federal judges go through a process of appointment and confirmation. It is grueling and not trivial. There is a process for removing really corrupt judges. It is called impeachment, trial and removal. That you cannot see it is wrong for Arpaio to be investigating Judge Snow and his wife is unbelievable.

    john: These judges are corrupt and you must investigate them (Not juries though, they are controlled by the people and there is some control for keeping corrupt people off of them. There is no control especially for federal judges to keep corrupt ones out.).

  118. avatar
    Punchmaster via Mobile April 24, 2015 at 8:37 am #

    If Zullo was smart, he’d be looking for a new job, cause if Joe goes down, so does his gravy train.

  119. avatar
    John April 24, 2015 at 8:55 am #

    If only Racial Profiling had been done on 911, the world would have been a different place.

    “The airline ticketing agent who checked in Mohamed Atta, the purported leader of the September 11 attacks, and a companion, would afterwards say that looking at the pair his first reaction was to think, “If this doesn’t look like two Arab terrorists, I’ve never seen two Arab terrorists.” The pair was dressed in simple suit-and-tie attire. The agent immediately felt guilty since they looked like ordinary businessmen. He later remarked that Atta “had the deadest eyes [he’d] ever seen” which made him stand out from other businessmen. However, he had no legal grounds to search on the basis of their suspicious appearance had he wished to.[24]”

  120. avatar
    John April 24, 2015 at 9:19 am #

    John:
    If only Racial Profiling had been done on 911, the world would have been a different place.

    “The airline ticketing agent who checked in Mohamed Atta, the purported leader of the September 11 attacks, and a companion, would afterwards say that looking at the pair his first reaction was to think, “If this doesn’t look like two Arab terrorists, I’ve never seen two Arab terrorists.” The pair was dressed in simple suit-and-tie attire. The agent immediately felt guilty since they looked like ordinary businessmen. He later remarked that Atta “had the deadest eyes [he’d] ever seen” which made him stand out from other businessmen. However, he had no legal grounds to search on the basis of their suspicious appearance had he wished to.[24]”

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0502/18/pzn.01.html
    I really feel for that ticket agent. He had a gut reaction and if he could have Racial Profiled the terrorists, 911 might have been stopped. But, Racial Profiling is illegal and has been banned by do gooders. Unfortunately, the lack of Racial Profiling probably lead to the death of 3000 persons thinking in hindsight.

  121. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 24, 2015 at 9:27 am #

    You are confusing racial profiling with judgment based on trained observation. He could have pulled someone for extra screening based solely on the guy’s eyes, just not because he looked middle eastern. If the story is true (and I suspect it has grown in the telling), the screener didn’t do his job. Racial profiling had nothing to do with it.

    Racial profiling occurs when you treat someone differently because of their race. Do you think that every middle-eastern person should be pulled out of line and searched? That’s what it sounds like you’re saying.

    Arpaio’s deputies pulled over a legal US resident and held him for 8 hours with no probable cause because they THOUGHT he might be an illegal alien. Are you defending that?

    John: I really feel for that ticket agent. He had a gut reaction and if he could have Racial Profiled the terrorists,

  122. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 24, 2015 at 9:33 am #

    Zullo is a day trader. There is some question these days as to exactly where Mike Zullo is residing.

    Punchmaster via Mobile: If Zullo was smart, he’d be looking for a new job, cause if Joe goes down, so does his gravy train.

  123. avatar
    John April 24, 2015 at 9:39 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    You are confusing racial profiling with judgment based on trained observation. He could have pulled someone for extra screening based solely on the guy’s eyes, just not because he looked middle eastern. If the story is true (and I suspect it has grown in the telling), the screener didn’t do his job. Racial profiling had nothing to do with it.

    Racial profiling occurs when you treat someone differently because of their race. Do you think that every middle-eastern person should be pulled out of line and searched? That’s what it sounds like you’re saying.

    Arpaio’s deputies pulled over a legal US resident and held him for 8 hours with no probable cause because they THOUGHT he might be an illegal alien. Are you defending that?

    I don’t have a problem with that. If that guy had certain markers that might lead then to suspect him to be illegal, they definitely should do it. Illegal immigration is bad problem in this country and you have try to catch do you get rid of them as they are a drain on government resources and usually sources of crime and disease and of course they don’t belong in this country so they are vermin or infestations.

  124. avatar
    John April 24, 2015 at 9:45 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    You are confusing racial profiling with judgment based on trained observation. He could have pulled someone for extra screening based solely on the guy’s eyes, just not because he looked middle eastern. If the story is true (and I suspect it has grown in the telling), the screener didn’t do his job. Racial profiling had nothing to do with it.

    Racial profiling occurs when you treat someone differently because of their race. Do you think that every middle-eastern person should be pulled out of line and searched? That’s what it sounds like you’re saying.

    Arpaio’s deputies pulled over a legal US resident and held him for 8 hours with no probable cause because they THOUGHT he might be an illegal alien. Are you defending that?

    Well, according to the ticket agent, his first thought when he saw the the guys, was Arabs – Terrorists and they aren’t looking “Right”. I think I would consider that racial profiling. Unfortunately, the ticket agent had no cause other then they are Arabs who don’t look “Right” to actually detain them.

  125. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 9:55 am #

    CarlOrcas: So much for them being “afraid” to talk about Arpaio, hmm????

    I said that the stories were on the station websites, but they were not covered during broadcasts at all.

    My exact quote: ” It’s all over the front page of the local newspaper and in online news stories, but nothing on the television.”

  126. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 10:10 am #

    John: Illegal immigration is bad problem in this country

    I have to wonder if your ancestors came here illegally: http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/17/the-irish-the-illegal-immigrants-of-yesteryear/
    (posted on the Daily Caller, something tells me you’ll find that to be a friendly site)

  127. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 10:30 am #

    John: his first thought when he saw the the guys, was Arabs – Terrorists and they aren’t looking “Right”.

    Are all arabs terrorists?

    How about John Sununu and Darrell Issa? How about Doug Flutie, Casey Kasim, Kathy Najimi and Jaime Farr? Are they terrorists? How about the Jews who share arabic ancestry? Are they terrorists?

    http://news.sciencemag.org/2000/10/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry

    http://www.adc.org/2009/11/facts-about-arabs-and-the-arab-world/

  128. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 10:32 am #

    John, I think there’s something really wrong with you. Should I call the FBI and tell them that I think you need to be interrogated?

  129. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 24, 2015 at 11:07 am #

    John: “The airline ticketing agent who checked in Mohamed Atta, the purported leader of the September 11 attacks, and a companion, would afterwards say that looking at the pair his first reaction was to think, “If this doesn’t look like two Arab terrorists, I’ve never seen two Arab terrorists.” The pair was dressed in simple suit-and-tie attire. The agent immediately felt guilty since they looked like ordinary businessmen. He later remarked that Atta “had the deadest eyes [he’d] ever seen” which made him stand out from other businessmen. However, he had no legal grounds to search on the basis of their suspicious appearance had he wished to.[24]”

    Yes hindsight is always 20/20. We knew who they were before they even boarded the planes. Racial profiling wouldn’t have made a difference.

  130. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 24, 2015 at 11:09 am #

    John: I don’t have a problem with that. If that guy had certain markers that might lead then to suspect him to be illegal, they definitely should do it. Illegal immigration is bad problem in this country and you have try to catch do you get rid of them as they are a drain on government resources and usually sources of crime and disease and of course they don’t belong in this country so they are vermin or infestations.

    The certain “marker” here is the color of his skin. So you’re basically saying Arpaio should pull over every brown person without cause and detain them for as long as he wants.

  131. avatar
    Curious George April 24, 2015 at 11:13 am #

    From a news article over at the fogbow:

    “Arpaio also testified that with the help of an MCSO Sheriff’s Posse member named Mike Zullo, who was also behind the sheriff’s investigation of President Barack Obama’s birth certificate, he had hired a confidential informant to investigate a second issue that may have involved Snow.”

    Okay, this must have been the “universe shattering” information Zullo has been working on. That little project just got shattered.

  132. avatar
    Rickey April 24, 2015 at 11:20 am #

    John: .Illegal immigration is bad problem in this country and you have try to catch do you get rid of them as they are a drain on government resources and usually sources of crime and disease and of course they don’t belong in this country so they are vermin or infestations.

    I see that you unquestioningly buy into every right-wing myth about illegal immigration.

    The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of undocumented aliens and hard-working and law-abiding. In fact, that have a very strong motive for being law-abiding, because getting arrested puts them on a fast track for deportation.

    There is not a shred of evidence that undocumented aliens are a significant cause of diseases.

    I suggest that you read this link and learn some facts for a change.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20100428090514/http://colorado.mediamatters.org/items/200805210001

  133. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 24, 2015 at 11:23 am #

    John: I don’t have a problem with that. If that guy had certain markers that might lead then to suspect him to be illegal, they definitely should do it.

    What would those “markers” be, john?

    In this case the only thing the deputies had was that the man looked Hispanic. Is that good enough for you to hold a person for 8 hours? How about 24? 48?

  134. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 11:24 am #

    John thinks that all whites came here legally and all non-whites either crossed the border illegally or came in slave ships and should have never been set free, I’m sure.

    John would be wrong: http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/de-romanticizing-our-immigrant-past-why-claiming-my-family-came-legally-often-myth

    And John, there are 50,000 undocumented Irish in the U.S., RIGHT NOW: http://www.latimes.com/la-op-rodriguez8apr08-column.html

    http://www.irishcentral.com/culture/community/US-Ambassador-asked-to-waive-bans-on-undocumented-Irish-who-overstayed-visas.html#

  135. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 24, 2015 at 11:25 am #

    bgansel9: said that the stories were on the station websites, but they were not covered during broadcasts at all.

    That’s not how it works. Also several of them (if not all) included video clips of the stories that were on their air.

    Did you record all the newscasts so you could see everything they aired?

  136. avatar
    Curious George April 24, 2015 at 11:26 am #

    The link to the article excerpt I posted above:

    http://kjzz.org/content/130702/arpaios-admission-investigation-judges-wife-stuns-courtroom

  137. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 11:28 am #

    CarlOrcas: In this case the only thing the deputies had was that the man looked Hispanic. Is that good enough for you to hold a person for 8 hours? How about 24? 48?

    Yes, yes it is. Because John is a bigot who thinks all white people are angels and all non-white people are criminals. He’s made that clear, hasn’t he?

  138. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 24, 2015 at 11:33 am #

    Curious George:
    From a news article over at the fogbow:

    “Arpaio also testified that with the help of an MCSO Sheriff’s Posse member named Mike Zullo, who was also behind the sheriff’s investigation of President Barack Obama’s birth certificate, he had hired a confidential informant to investigate a second issue that may have involved Snow.”

    Okay, this must have been the “universe shattering” information Zullo has been working on. That little project just got shattered.

    The next obvious questions are how much was Montgomery paid and where did the money come from?

  139. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 11:35 am #

    CarlOrcas: Did you record all the newscasts so you could see everything they aired?

    No, we spent 45 minutes clicking through all of the local stations spending about three seconds on each one and visiting each one over and over and over again. The closest thing we heard was about the SB-1070 protest “that has been going on while Sheriff Arpaio was in court today’ – that was the only reference we heard to Arpaio at all.

  140. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 11:37 am #

    CarlOrcas: That’s not how it works. Also several of them (if not all) included video clips of the stories that were on their air.

    They weren’t on the air during the 5:00 hour last night. We looked.

  141. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 24, 2015 at 12:04 pm #

    bgansel9: They weren’t on the air during the 5:00 hour last night. We looked.

    Here it is…..the lead story on Channel 12’s 6 o’clock news:

    http://tinyurl.com/n8potu3

    And here from Channel 5 with a 4:59 pm time stamp is this one:

    http://tinyurl.com/levo63b

    And from Channel 10 here is the story with a 4:32 pm time stamp:

    http://tinyurl.com/levo63b

    Obviously the story was covered on the air…..you just missed it.

  142. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 12:11 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Obviously the story was covered on the air…..you just missed it.

    Wow, they spent a whole two minutes on this? No wonder I missed it. We honestly looked and we found no evidence of anyone saying a word about it, but, we expected some actual reporting, not a two minute blurb.

    Can I have that Channel 10 link again? Both of the bottom two links are Channel 5.

  143. avatar
    OllieOxenFree April 24, 2015 at 12:18 pm #

    John: I really feel for that ticket agent. He had a gut reaction and if he could have Racial Profiled the terrorists, 911 might have been stopped. But, Racial Profiling is illegal and has been banned by do gooders. Unfortunately, the lack of Racial Profiling probably lead to the death of 3000 persons thinking in hindsight.

    Few things:

    First, four planes were hijacked and he was referring to two passengers of one of them. If these two were detained it would not have prevented the others from being hijacked, and in all likelihood would have probably not even prevented these two men from making their own flight. They were not listed as wanted men and were in this country legally on visitor visas. There would have been little that would have prevented those two men from boarding their plane.

    Secondly, the hijackers used box cutters, small bits of plastic with razor blades, to take the planes. They were not carrying what would have been considered weapons pre 9/11. I did a lot of traveling for a company in the late 90’s, and I always carried on a large bag of tools and assorted electronic devices that I did not trust to go through baggage claim. In that bag was also several objects that could have been used as weapons, though they were not conventionally viewed as such (hammers, an awl, a small hacksaw), including a heavy duty box cutter.

    Even if these men had been searched, at worst all that would have been found was a box cutter or two, which as I have pointed out, would not have even been confiscated from them pre-9/11.

    Lastly, hindsight is always 20/20, and in the case of a traumatic event, doubly so. A perfect example of this is claiming that if a single ticket taker had reacted to a “gut instinct,” that the whole of 9/11 would have been prevented.

  144. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 24, 2015 at 12:21 pm #

    bgansel9: Wow, they spent a whole two minutes on this? No wonder I missed it. We honestly looked and we found no evidence of anyone saying a word about it, but, we expected some actual reporting, not a two minute blurb.

    Two minutes is a longer than average story for a local newscast.

    bgansel9: an I have that Channel 10 link again? Both of the bottom two links are Channel 5.

    http://tinyurl.com/m4rf6qa

  145. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 12:32 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Two minutes is a longer than average story for a local newscast.

    You should see how much time they all spent on the female basketball star Brittany Griner who got into a domestic fight with her fiance in their brand new home in Goodyear. That was what they spent a HUGE amount of time on: http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/wnba/mercury/2015/04/23/phoenix-mercury-brittney-griner-arrested-assault-charge-abrk/26233395/

    They would report the story and then go back to it again before and after commercial breaks. That apparently was what they thought was their big story. When we were flipping through the channels we couldn’t get away from that story, or the other one about the lady who was sentenced for kidnapping and murder: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/04/23/bernadette-beanes-sentencing-abrk/26244551/

    There was also “breaking news” of the SB-1070 5 year anniversary protests which they spent about 15 seconds on.

  146. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 12:38 pm #

    So yes, I apparently missed a 2 minute story on one channel during the first 3/4’s of the five o’clock hour. No other station reported the story at 5:00 apparently. One had to be watching Fox a half hour BEFORE 5:00 (I don’t watch Fox at all if I can help it, even our Fox affiliate) or on Channel 12 an hour later.

  147. avatar
    James M April 24, 2015 at 12:49 pm #

    Before 2001 part of my standard travel kit was a Leatherman Super Tool and a gas soldering iron. I flew with this tool box twice a month. Once, in Burbank, I had to take out the Leatherman to show that it was in fact a knife, and not something dangerous.

  148. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 12:55 pm #

    ABC 15 covered it at the 10:00 hour (look at the dark sky and lights in the background): http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/joe-arpaio-to-testify-for-2nd-day-at-contempt-hearing

    3TV ran theirs at 9:00 – http://www.azfamily.com/clip/11423300/arpaio-admits-to-hiring-private-agents-to-investigate-judges-wife

    Not a lot of coverage, one had to know at which hour they were broadcasting the story. Nothing on the five o’clock hour on either of these two stations.

    The 3TV video is quite good, interviewing Mary Rose Wilcox and going through the witch hunt of the county board of supervisors and judges.

  149. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 24, 2015 at 1:04 pm #

    Not a lot of coverage, one had to know at which hour they were broadcasting the story.Nothing on the five o’clock hour on either of these two stations.

    But you originally said:

    Probably because our local news stations are so afraid to talk about him on the local news. we’re switching around on all of the local news channels and we can’t find ANYTHING.

    You were wrong.

  150. avatar
    Kate April 24, 2015 at 1:48 pm #

    John: I don’t have a problem with that.If that guy had certain markers that might lead then to suspect him to be illegal, they definitely should do it.Illegal immigration is bad problem in this country and you have try to catch do you get rid of them as they are a drain on government resources and usually sources of crime and disease and of course they don’t belong in this country so they are vermin or infestations.

    Since John believes in racial profiling, I wonder how he’d feel if all young white men were profiled as domestic terrorists due to Timothy McVeigh’s bombing in OKC? Or Adam Lanza’s shooting of innocent children and teachers in Connecticut? Racial profiling doesn’t mean everyone other than caucasians, John. I highly doubt you’d react in a calm, rational manner if you were one of the men held illegally because of your skin color.

    When did your ancestors arrive in the U.S.? Would you refer to immigrants, as they likely were, as vermin, when it is your family members that are being spoken about? The same people who are harshly critical of those who are trying to better their lives and only want the best for their families, obviously forget that they likely had ancestors who were considered to be beneath many of the people who already inhabited the U.S. at the turn of the 20th century. Italians, Irish, Germans, etc. were all treated with disdain yet their descendants are often guilty of the same behavior towards those who are seeking the same thing their ancestors were, a better quality of life for their family.

  151. avatar
    Crustacean April 24, 2015 at 2:53 pm #

    Oh, but a Leatherman is so much more than a knife, James! And it’s dangerous alright – to anyone who’s afraid of seeing stuff get fixed! 🙂

    James M: Once, in Burbank, I had to take out the Leatherman to show that it was in fact a knife, and not something dangerous.

  152. avatar
    Crustacean April 24, 2015 at 3:01 pm #

    bgansel9 and Carl, I had no idea you two were married! 🙂

    CarlOrcas: You were wrong.

    bgansel9: So yes, I apparently missed a 2 minute story on one channel during the first 3/4’s of the five o’clock hour

  153. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 4:27 pm #

    Crustacean: bgansel9 and Carl, I had no idea you two were married!

    I wouldn’t marry him if he were the last man on earth.

  154. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 4:33 pm #

    CarlOrcas: You were WRONG!

    No, I didn’t say they didn’t broadcast it, I said we were switching around and couldn’t find anything. I never stated that I watched all of the broadcasts on all of the stations. I never stated that I knew exactly what all of the content of all of the news programs were. I indicated that we looked and it was difficult to find a story.

    But, don’t let that stop you from disparaging me, Carl, because I realize while you and I are on sides of agreement, we don’t get along and we never will. I realize you target me for destruction (and I allow it, because quite honestly, while I don’t like your targeting of me, I like your posts. It is you who has trouble getting along with me, not the other way around. We spar but we are both arguing for the same side in this birther craziness. Have a nice day!)

  155. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 24, 2015 at 4:37 pm #

    So, the right wing sites that have been gutsy enough to cover this, like WND, have comment sections wracked with irony. Many of them are of a mindset that Shurfjoke shouldn’t be punished for breaking the law, because he was “just doing his job”.

  156. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 4:46 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG: Many of them are of a mindset that Shurfjoke shouldn’t be punished for breaking the law, because he was “just doing his job”.

    All we have to do is look at what John is saying and we can see that it will reflect WND and BR.

    This just shows me that there will be a contingent screaming about what a great job Joe is doing if we ever do set up another recall effort. Idiots will vote for corrupt officials with no compunction to research the candidate first. These folks are Joe’s first line of defense and he’s counting on them.

    Any. Day. Now!

  157. avatar
    Jim April 24, 2015 at 9:01 pm #

    http://kjzz.org/content/131092/arpaios-second-command-testifies-contempt-hearing

    “In his testimony Sheridan said he did not become aware of that 2011 order until he was told of it in a deposition with the U.S. Department of Justice in March 2014.”

    Wasn’t he a defendant? How could he not know?

  158. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 9:44 pm #

    Jim: Wasn’t he a defendant? How could he not know?

    I think they decided to just ignore it and thought it would all go away. It’s not like the U.S. Justice Department was going to press charges or anything. Right? RIGHT?

  159. avatar
    Keith April 24, 2015 at 9:52 pm #

    john: I have no problem with Racial Profiling.

    It is a direct violation of the fundamental American principle “innocent until proven guilty”.

    I’m sure you have heard of that John, it is part of what makes America America – and it is a major part of what you get when you ‘take back our America’.

  160. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 10:19 pm #

    Because nobody EVER lies on Facebook! – huh? This was their source for this information?

    “Under oath, Sheridan also revealed more about the claims of an investigation into the judge’s wife. Sheridan told the judge a Facebook tipster wrote to the Sheriff saying “The judge’s wife told her that the judge hates the sheriff and wants to see him out of office.”
    http://www.fox10phoenix.com/story/28895531/2015/04/24/arpaio-contempt-of-court-hearing-wraps-up-until-june

  161. avatar
    Reality Check April 24, 2015 at 10:32 pm #

    Was it in a coffee shop across the street from the the court house?

    bgansel9: . Sheridan told the judge a Facebook tipster wrote to the Sheriff saying “The judge’s wife told her that the judge hates the sheriff and wants to see him out of office.”

  162. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 10:34 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Was it in a coffee shop across the street from the the court house?

    Could be. I don’t remember a coffee shop there, but, I haven’t been in that area in a while. I used to work in the federal building about six years ago.

  163. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 24, 2015 at 11:38 pm #

    bgansel9: CarlOrcas: You were WRONG!

    It’s kinda tacky to quote back and change the quote. I did not capitalize WRONG and I didn’t end the sentence with an exclamation mark.

    And, no, I haven’t targeted you for “destruction”.

    All I have done is note that your claim that the television news operations in Phoenix are “afraid” to talk about Arpaio is utter nonsense.

  164. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 10:26 am #

    CarlOrcas: It’s kinda tacky to quote back and change the quote. I did not capitalize WRONG and I didn’t end the sentence with an exclamation mark.

    Oh, I’m sorry. I didn’t directly quote you, I started to not quote your post at all and decided that I would and I was already midway through. Did you say those words? “you were wrong?” Same words, what are you arguing about? Do those words mean anything different when capitalized? I don’t think so.

    CarlOrcas: All I have done is note that your claim that the television news operations in Phoenix are “afraid” to talk about Arpaio is utter nonsense.

    Well, I am sorry if you don’t agree but when our sheriff is admitting that he broke the law and it’s not presented on the 5 o’clock news, I think there’s something going on there.

    By the way, our newspaper has been very informative about this issue, and this morning they twisted a headline to suggest that Sheridan DIDN’T lie when, in fact, all other sources are claiming he did. The side headline says: “Arpaio’s top aide: I did not defy court”: and underneath it says” “Sheridan testifies he didn’t lie to monitor” – if one were to read only the headline, they might walk away with the idea that Sheridan didn’t lie at all.

    There are factions in this county that want this story to go away. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some reporters at the Arizona Republic write twisted articles to suggest Arpaio is being screwed (after all, that is the rightwing narrative).

    http://www1.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/hr.asp?fpVname=AZ_AR&ref_pge=lst

  165. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 25, 2015 at 11:17 am #

    bgansel9: Do those words mean anything different when capitalized? I don’t think so.

    Then why did you change them?

    bgansel9: Well, I am sorry if you don’t agree but when our sheriff is admitting that he broke the law and it’s not presented on the 5 o’clock news, I think there’s something going on there.

    What do you think is “:going on” especially since the story did appear on at least one of the 5 o’clock shows and on their later shows. What purpose do you think would be served by not running the story at 5 but then running it later?

    bgansel9: The side headline says: “Arpaio’s top aide: I did not defy court”: and underneath it says” “Sheridan testifies he didn’t lie to monitor” –

    Well…..not sure what to say about this one. It does get the salient facts right. How would you have written the headline?

    bgansel9: There are factions in this county that want this story to go away.

    Who are they? Are you suggesting they have the ability to control the news in Phoenix?

    bgansel9: I wouldn’t be surprised to see some reporters at the Arizona Republic write twisted articles to suggest Arpaio is being screwed (after all, that is the rightwing narrative).

    Hasn’t the Republic already suggested that Arpaio’s time in office has run its course? Who are the reporters you think will be carrying Arpaio’s water and when do you think that will happen?

  166. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 11:28 am #

    CarlOrcas: Then why did you change them?

    Because I was midway through a post, then decided to add it, had my computer crap out on me, decided to try to post before rebooting (all while my SO was behind me arguing about TPP in the background) and I decided to just rewrite three litttle words? I’m sorry that I didn’t put every single letter exactly as it was. Please, accept my apology.

  167. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 11:31 am #

    CarlOrcas: What purpose do you think would be served by not running the story at 5 but then running it later?

    The big news stories all appear at the 5:00 news hour. Three of four stations did NOT show the story at the 5:00 news hour. One waited a full half hour into the 5:00 news hour to discuss it. No, I can’t see anything happening there, can YOU?

  168. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 11:48 am #

    CarlOrcas: Who are they? Are you suggesting they have the ability to control the news in Phoenix?

    You ARE aware that Joe Arpaio had a very close association with the newspaper until recently? I don’t remember the guy’s name who he was associated with, but I heard the reason why Arpaio was getting such great press in the newspaper until recently was because of this connection which apparently is no longer a connection (the guy left, or died or something) (I admit this is unsubsantiated rumor, yes… but Arpaio DID have great press which changed only in the last couple of years, I have seen this change myself).

    Four years ago, if these stories about Arpaio made it into the press at all, they would have been buried on the back pages for nobody to find. Arpaio has many friends in this town, including members of the press. Are you suggesting that he doesn’t? Really?

  169. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 25, 2015 at 12:18 pm #

    bgansel9: The big news stories all appear at the 5:00 news hour. Three of four stations did NOT show the story at the 5:00 news hour. One waited a full half hour into the 5:00 news hour to discuss it. No, I can’t see anything happening there, can YOU?

    What I see happening is a fairly normal editorial process. Depending on when court adjourned the decision may have been made by some to first run it at 6 in order to have time for editing and review.

    The later shows have more viewers (HUTS increase quickly in the late afternoon and early evening) and that often plays into the decision when to run a story.

    But you didn’t answer my question: What purpose do you see being served by not running it at 5 but then running it on newscasts with more viewers like the 6, 9 and 10 o’clock shows?

  170. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 12:27 pm #

    CarlOrcas: But you didn’t answer my question: What purpose do you see being served by not running it at 5 but then running it on newscasts with more viewers like the 6, 9 and 10 o’clock shows?

    Well, perhaps this is me showing my age, but back east where I grew up, lots of people would tune in for the 5:00 and then switch to watch other evening shows. Is that no longer true? I am not aware of it. I would think that trend would increase instead of decrease with the addition of so many other options for television watching. Whenever I want to tune in to a big story, I turn on the 5:00 news. I have never before seen a big story that wasn’t available on the 5:00 news. As a newspaper carrier in this city, I’ve had situations where fires and accidents, and crazy situations have occurred on my route and I would be sure to see it on the 5:00 news. There have been several incidents that have occurred and I’ve never not been able to find it. Why is the sheriff breaking federal law different?

  171. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 25, 2015 at 12:27 pm #

    bgansel9: You ARE aware that Joe Arpaio had a very close association with the newspaper until recently? I don’t remember the guy’s name who he was associated with, but I heard the reason why Arpaio was getting such great press in the newspaper until recently was because of this connection which apparently is no longer a connection (the guy left, or died or something) (I admit this is unsubsantiated rumor, yes… but Arpaio DID have great press which changed only in the last couple of years, I have seen this change myself).

    Well….not sure what to say. No way to answer an unsubstantiated rumor other than to say what I saw while living there was quite different.

    bgansel9: Four years ago, if these stories about Arpaio made it into the press at all, they would have been buried on the back pages for nobody to find. Arpaio has many friends in this town, including members of the press. Are you suggesting that he doesn’t? Really?

    Arpaio has always had strong support in conservative circles. Support among all county voters has been declining precipitously in the last several election cycles: Dropping to barely 51% in 2012.

    As far as the Republic is concerned here is a “News Special” that appears to date from 2010 in which they chronicle Arpaio’s time in office http://tinyurl.com/32o2yjf

    The stories date back to the 90’s and are hardly glowing….in my opinion.

  172. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 12:35 pm #

    There were many times when something big would happen (the sex abuse cases, for example) and the story would not appear on the front page.

    Arpaio has a press staff of several people, are you suggesting those people are not doing their jobs? Their job is to keep bad press out of the papers.

  173. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 25, 2015 at 12:42 pm #

    bgansel9: Well, perhaps this is me showing my age, but back east where I grew up, lots of people would tune in for the 5:00 and then switch to watch other evening shows. Is that no longer true?

    The difference is the schedule: Prime time in the Central and Mountain time zones runs from 7 to 10 while the East and West coasts are 8 to 11. That goes back to when everything was fed by land lines out of New York.

    As a result the late newscasts draw more viewers in the Central and Mountain time zones and fewer in the East and West and that impacts early viewing because people know they will be awake to see the news. And that factors into decisions about when and where to run stories.

    The network news shows are also affected by the time differences.

    bgansel9: Why is the sheriff breaking federal law different?

    If you saw an accident while delivering papers I assume that was in the early morning?

    In the case of the current court case the reporter can’t really start pulling the story together until court adjourns and that is normally in the afternoon which doesn’t leave much time to pull together a piece for the early shows…..or even the bulldog or street editions (if they still use those terms) of the Republic.

  174. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 25, 2015 at 12:52 pm #

    bgansel9: There were many times when something big would happen (the sex abuse cases, for example) and the story would not appear on the front page.

    What appears on the front page of a paper is less significant today than it was in the past with declining readership and virtually no street sales.

    And, of course, every day is different: What makes the front page today might not even make the paper tomorrow.

    bgansel9: Arpaio has a press staff of several people, are you suggesting those people are not doing their jobs? Their job is to keep bad press out of the papers.

    Lisa Allen is considered a joke by people in the media in Phoenix.

    And, of course, try as they may, PR people have no ability to keep real stories out of the news.

  175. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 12:54 pm #

    CarlOrcas: In the case of the current court case the reporter can’t really start pulling the story together until court adjourns and that is normally in the afternoon which doesn’t leave much time to pull together a piece for the early shows…..or even the bulldog or street editions (if they still use those terms) of the Republic.

    We were talking right here on this blog in the early afternoon about Arpaio admitting his attorney hired a private investigator to investigate Snow’s wife. Fox 10 reported on it at 4:30. Why would the other stations have trouble reporting that? We had already been talking about it for about 3 hours on this blog.

    I will admit that I’m a transplant from the east. You seem to know much more about media and time zones than I do. Perhaps what you are saying is correct (I never noticed the difference myself) but it seemed to me that the stations were trying to suppress this information. I say “it seemed to me” and I’m still not sure that it’s not true. You could be right, but, it seems strange that other people can discuss it for hours (news stations were releasing news stories online) but not report it on the news.

    As for situations on my route, I would never tune in to see a simple car accident (and those rarely happen) but there have been house fires, road closures due to manhunts and such.

  176. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 1:04 pm #

    CarlOrcas: And, of course, every day is different: What makes the front page today might not even make the paper tomorrow.

    Well, I do know that after having spent more than 5 years throwing this paper, I’ve noticed a much more willing newspaper report stories on our sheriff that I didn’t see reported four years ago. I have also heard “unsubstantiated rumors” from people who have been throwing this paper for more than 20 years who tell me that Arpaio had some very good friends at the newspaper and recently they are now all gone.

    (and yes, I know several people who have been throwing this paper for more than 20 years, and a few of them I have never seen even take a single day off in that entire 5+ years that I’ve known them. I can’t do that, I have to take a couple of days here and there myself. Some carriers arrange a bit of time off sometimes, some of us don’t. I’m one of those that do. I cannot work 2000+ days (or 20,000+) with out a single day off myself, but I know several people who do).

  177. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 25, 2015 at 1:14 pm #

    bgansel9: We were talking right here on this blog in the early afternoon about Arpaio admitting his attorney hired a private investigator to investigate Snow’s wife. Fox 10 reported on it at 4:30. Why would the other stations have trouble reporting that? We had already been talking about it for about 3 hours on this blog.

    First, Channel 10 doesn’t run news at 4:30 pm. They strip Judge Judy from 4 to 5, Monday thru Friday.

    Wasn’t it 10 that ran the story at 4:58, or something like that? My guess is they go straight from Judy to news. It’s an old gimmick to retain viewers from a high rated entertainment show. It worked for years with Oprah.

    As far as our ability to talk about the story on the internet before it appears on a scheduled newscast…….well, that’s the reason viewership is declining and is skewed strongly to older, habit driven viewers. Same with newspapers.

    bgansel9: I will admit that I’m a transplant from the east. You seem to know much more about media and time zones than I do. Perhaps what you are saying is correct (I never noticed the difference myself) but it seemed to me that the stations were trying to suppress this information. I

    If they were actually trying to suppress a story they wouldn’t run it all or, at the least, they would run it on their shows with the smallest audience…..like the 5 o’clock as opposed to the 6, 9 or 10.

  178. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 1:21 pm #

    Okay, I agree with you now. It just seemed strange to me. You are correct. I will withdraw my concern and just say that I expected wide coverage of this and didn’t see it.

  179. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 25, 2015 at 1:26 pm #

    bgansel9: . I have also heard “unsubstantiated rumors” from people who have been throwing this paper for more than 20 years who tell me that Arpaio had some very good friends at the newspaper and recently they are now all gone.

    Gannett has owned the Republic since 2000.

    He might have had friends at the paper before that….in his halcyon days as the new sheriff in town…..but Gannett doesn’t keep people in a town long enough for them to make friends with their next door neighbors.

    bgansel9: I cannot work 2000+ days (or 20,000+) with out a single day off myself, but I know several people who do).

    I can’t imagine it either.

    Years ago I delivered the Gazette when kids were still doing it with canvas paperbags slung over their bike’s handlebars. Yes…that’s a long time ago.

  180. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 25, 2015 at 1:30 pm #

    bgansel9:
    Okay, I agree with you now. It just seemed strange to me. You are correct. I will withdraw my concern and just say that I expected wide coverage of this and didn’t see it.

    Thanks.

    One thing to consider……given the internet, the number of local newscasts, etc., we probably have more coverage available on most stories today than we did ten or 20 years ago.

  181. avatar
    James M April 25, 2015 at 1:39 pm #

    bgansel9:
    Okay, I agree with you now. It just seemed strange to me. You are correct. I will withdraw my concern and just say that I expected wide coverage of this and didn’t see it.

    There certainly isn’t anything like a blitz of wall-to-wall coverage on Arpaio. If it weren’t for OCT discussions I wouldn’t have any sense that Sheriff Joe is in any trouble — not even a passing mention on the local NPR news segments in the mornings. Even this week’s article in the New Times is more buried than their usual bombshells. I’m not suggesting that there’s a media embargo, but when media outlets in the Phoenix area want something to be known, they have a tendency to be overbearing and loud with it.

  182. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 1:43 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Years ago I delivered the Gazette when kids were still doing it with canvas paperbags slung over their bike’s handlebars. Yes…that’s a long time ago.

    So did my SO (he had William Rehnquist as a customer and said Rehnquist never paid for his paper on time. LOL) Several people that I work with (the 20+ years people) were also Gazette carriers. Apparently they stopped allowing children to throw papers when a young girl got killed and hired adults instead. I’m not sure if that was before the Gazette stopped publishing or not though. I know people who remember that girl from their Gazette days.

  183. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 1:48 pm #

    Apparently her killer was executed in 2011: http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/US/beaty1253.htm

  184. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 2:37 pm #

    James M: If it weren’t for OCT discussions I wouldn’t have any sense that Sheriff Joe is in any trouble

    Well, if one glanced at a newspaper they’d see the headlines, but, not much other coverage at all.

  185. avatar
    James M April 25, 2015 at 2:52 pm #

    bgansel9: Well, if one glanced at a newspaper they’d see the headlines, but, not much other coverage at all.

    Every morning I walk into the Starbuck’s at 5th and Mill, and every morning I “glance at the headline” of the Republic. I still wouldn’t be aware that Arpaio is in any particular trouble (and I honestly don’t believe that he is, even so.)

  186. avatar
    Rickey April 25, 2015 at 4:51 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Gannett has owned the Republic since 2000.

    He might have had friends at the paper before that….in his halcyon days as the new sheriff in town…..but Gannett doesn’t keep people in a town long enough for them to make friends with their next door neighbors.

    Phil Boas, Arpaio’s son-in-law, was an editorial page editor at the Arizona Republic until fairly recently. Boas is now listed in the employee directory as “News Director/Strategist Community Leadership.”

  187. avatar
    Rickey April 25, 2015 at 4:57 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Was it in a coffee shop across the street from the the court house?

    I see what you did there. Good one.

  188. avatar
    James M April 25, 2015 at 5:33 pm #

    bgansel9: Well, if one glanced at a newspaper they’d see the headlines, but, not much other coverage at all.

    I glanced at the Republic just now. Gas prices are down, and one of Arpaio’s aides who I guarantee nobody has heard of, is qouted that he didn’t”defy the court.” Local paper is being pretty careful to pretend this isn’t about Arpaio himself, if you ask me.

  189. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 25, 2015 at 6:48 pm #

    Rickey: Phil Boas, Arpaio’s son-in-law, was an editorial page editor at the Arizona Republic until fairly recently. Boas is now listed in the employee directory as “News Director/Strategist Community Leadership.”

    Yes, I know. In neither job would he have any role in daily news coverage and if he tried to involve himself in coverage of the sheriff Gannett would come down on him like a ton of bricks.

  190. avatar
    wrecking ball April 25, 2015 at 7:56 pm #

    GR has finally caught up with the news:

    http://www.birtherreport.com/2015/04/contempt-sheriff-arpaio-was-concerned.html

  191. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 8:03 pm #

    James M: I glanced at the Republic just now.Gas prices are down, and one of Arpaio’s aides who I guarantee nobody has heard of, is qouted that he didn’t”defy the court.” Local paper is being pretty careful to pretend this isn’t about Arpaio himself, if you ask me.

    Headlines on Thursday and Friday were much less kind. .

  192. avatar
    Dave April 25, 2015 at 8:45 pm #

    My favorite part:

    “The left and their media supporters believe this is the end of Sheriff Arpaio and his Obama ID fraud investigation. My sources in and around the MCSO suggests the complete opposite.”

    So, this is going to turn out just great for Arpaio. We will all be dismayed.

    But nobody will be surprised that the “investigation” is continuing. I don’t think anything could stop Zullo from continuing to make vague promises and never delivering.

    wrecking ball:
    GR has finally caught up with the news:

    http://www.birtherreport.com/2015/04/contempt-sheriff-arpaio-was-concerned.html

  193. avatar
    wrecking ball April 25, 2015 at 9:32 pm #

    Dave:
    My favorite part:

    here’s mine:

    “Perhaps Joe is using this crisis as an opportunity to blow the corrupt criminal regime wide open.”

  194. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 25, 2015 at 9:54 pm #

    wrecking ball:
    GR has finally caught up with the news:

    http://www.birtherreport.com/2015/04/contempt-sheriff-arpaio-was-concerned.html

    And boy are they floundering in the excuses department.

  195. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 11:41 pm #

    Dave: My sources in and around the MCSO suggests the complete opposite.”

    Who wrote that? I’d like to have a name for a post next time I call MCSO and ask them if an investigation into Obama’s birth certificate is being conducted and they tell me “no, ma’am” again.

  196. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 11:43 pm #

    wrecking ball: here’s mine:

    “Perhaps Joe is using this crisis as an opportunity to blow the corrupt criminal regime wide open.”

    Ever the optimists, it’s worked out so well in the courts for them so far, huh?

  197. avatar
    James M April 26, 2015 at 12:08 am #

    bgansel9: Who wrote that? I’d like to have a name for a post next time I call MCSO and ask them if an investigation into Obama’s birth certificate is being conducted and they tell me “no, ma’am” again.

    Funny, I had a surreal experience this evening. In the booth next to me at Denny’s (Broadway & Hardy, Tempe) two detectives were having a meal and talking (pretty loudly, about a whole lot of stuff.) Not eavesdropping was not an option. I heard enough to know they are county detectives, they have required ethics training that starts Monday, they have to go through some complex effort to get money for witness fees for court, I know the particulars of the case which involves a blatant fraud on a construction deal. They talked about Bruce Jenner and a transexual they arrested once, and how they dealt with it at the department (meticulously avoiding a “complaint incident” in the detective’s words), talked about how President Obama takes vacations but Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. didn’t, talked about how Republican politicians bother to get to know people in government by name and stuff like that, while Democrats don’t, and this went on and on for about 45 minutes. They didn’t say a word about their sheriff, although the upcoming ethics training probably captures everything that two MCSO officers would have to say to each other. Oh yeah, the “ethics training” is following on something that happened to a Prescott Valley police chief, not Sheriff Joe.
    I know it’s probably bad taste to eavesdrop and definitely unwise to eavesdrop on cops, but they made it impossible for me to sit there eating my Grand Slam and drinking my coffee and not hear every single word they said. And the nonsense about President Obama seemed tasteless and it took all my strength to refrain from saying anything or even looking in their direction.

  198. avatar
    chancery April 26, 2015 at 2:04 am #

    “talked about how President Obama takes vacations but Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. didn’t,”

    Is that something they learned from Fox News?

  199. avatar
    RanTalbott April 26, 2015 at 2:27 am #

    Another priceless squeak from one of the gerbils, in response to someone pointing out that Montgomery is a scammer:

    You really are stupid. Arpaio and Zullo check their information and sources to see if they are credible.

    So, I guess we know now that they don’t get Playboy for the articles…

    And a little whistling past the graveyard:

    I doubt Snow has anything serious on Sheriff Arpaio, and the Sheriff could determine the same calling his bluff by going about business as usual.

    I think he already tried that approach. It hasn’t gone well.

  200. avatar
    Punchmaster via Mobile April 26, 2015 at 9:34 am #

    RanTalbott:
    Another priceless squeak from one of the gerbils, in response to someone pointing out that Montgomery is a scammer:

    So, I guess we know now that they don’t get Playboy for the articles…

    And a little whistling past the graveyard:

    I think he already tried that approach. It hasn’t gone well.

    I see they’re trying the “Let’s deny reality and hope for the best!” approach. With the A/Z failboat firmly sunk, I guess that’s all they have left.

  201. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 26, 2015 at 11:30 am #

    Dave: My favorite part:

    “The left and their media supporters believe this is the end of Sheriff Arpaio and his Obama ID fraud investigation. My sources in and around the MCSO suggests the complete opposite.”

    A rehash of the old “I lost in court but this is a victory because now I can appeal” meme.

  202. avatar
    Northland10 April 26, 2015 at 7:22 pm #

    Rickey: I see what you did there. Good one.

    As did I.

  203. avatar
    Reality Check April 29, 2015 at 8:23 am #

    The name of the lady who contacted Apraio about Judge Snow’s wife has been revealed. She looks like a typical Arpaio supporter.

    Karen Morris Grissom

  204. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 29, 2015 at 9:22 am #

    Reality Check: She looks like a typical Arpaio supporter.

    She looks like she inhaled Arpaio. 😉

    But she doesn’t come across as the typical obsessed Tea Partier who would make up a story for political purposes either (doesn’t mean I think she was telling the truth). She has a few anti-Hillary (and anti-POTUS/FLOTUS) reposts but not the level expected from a nutbag.

  205. avatar
    Rickey April 29, 2015 at 11:19 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in): She looks like she inhaled Arpaio.

    But she doesn’t come across as the typical obsessed Tea Partier who would make up a story for political purposes either (doesn’t mean I think she was telling the truth). She has a few anti-Hillary (and anti-POTUS/FLOTUS) reposts but not the level expected from a nutbag.

    One can deduce from her Facebook profile that she is in her late sixties and she likely is a Mormon. She works for the Tempe Elementary School District, but in what capacity she doesn’t say. As you say she is anti-Hillary and anti-Obama, but I don’t see any crazy Tea Party stuff.

  206. avatar
    Reality Check April 29, 2015 at 11:48 am #

    The Facebook PM is dated August 22. 2013 and she says the conversation occurred “last year” so the alleged conversation with Judge Snow’s wife occurred over 2 and possibly 3 years ago. The date of the PM matches very well with Doc’s timeline for the “universe shattering” information. Lemons said his sources told him the investigation dated back to October 2013.