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Mike Zullo: on the court’s radar

We never expected the Zullo inquisition, but Mike Zullo is now tied up with Joe Arpaio’s contempt proceeding before federal judge G. Murray Snow in Phoenix.

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Mike Zullo and two Maricopa County deputies traveled to Seattle to meet with a known con man, Dennis Montgomery. Arpaio admitted in court yesterday that Montgomery was to supply information on federal judges, including Judge Snow. Snow examined Arpaio closely yesterday, with a copy of the Stephen Lemons article from June of last year, exposing the trip. Judge Snow ordered that the Sheriff’s Office and the Cold Case Posse not destroy any records relating to communications with Montgomery.

Zullo, happy to give affidavits in out of state cases, blew off subpoenas from Orly Taitz in birther lawsuits. It is an Obot’s web dream to see Zullo testify under oath. Will he say that public funds went to a con man to investigate the judge in Arpaio’s case, or will he say that the money was funding the Cold Case Posse’s “universe shattering” investigation of Barack Obama’s birth certificate?

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127 Responses to Mike Zullo: on the court’s radar

  1. avatar
    Curious George April 24, 2015 at 11:30 am #

    A blip on the court radar screen……Mike Zullo.

    http://kjzz.org/content/130702/arpaios-admission-investigation-judges-wife-stuns-courtroom

  2. avatar
    Curious George April 24, 2015 at 11:32 am #

    “Arpaio also testified that with the help of an MCSO Sheriff’s Posse member named Mike Zullo, who was also behind the sheriff’s investigation of President Barack Obama’s birth certificate, he had hired a confidential informant to investigate a second issue that may have involved Snow.”

  3. avatar
    Curious George April 24, 2015 at 11:48 am #

    From a recent Stephen Lemons article:

    “When I called former U.S. Attorney Paul Charlton for his assessment, he said he believed federal laws may have been broken concerning the intimidation of a sitting district court judge and possible obstruction of justice. “

  4. avatar
    CarlOrcas April 24, 2015 at 12:08 pm #

    Curious George:
    “Arpaio also testified that with the help of an MCSO Sheriff’s Posse member named Mike Zullo, who was also behind the sheriff’s investigation of President Barack Obama’s birth certificate, he had hired a confidential informant to investigate a second issue that may have involved Snow.”

    As noted on the other thread: The next questions are how much was Montgomery paid and who supplied the money?

    I’m sure the sheriff and the posse have meticulous records that will quickly reveal that information.

  5. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 12:10 pm #

    Lemons and the Phoenix New Times are to be congratulated. Their reporting has been spot on. The question pending is what Arpaio’s criminal attorney has in mind regarding today’s court proceedings:

    “Arpaio’s criminal attorney Mel McDonald promised reporters that all would be revealed once Arpaio’s chief deputy Jerry Sheridan testified today.”

  6. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 12:29 pm #

    If I were to speculate regarding the testimony of Chief Deputy Jerry Sheridan one possibility involves a limited “full disclosure” whereby the Arpaio gang asserts that they were approached by a seemingly knowledgeable informant who alleged all sorts of corruption in the Justice Department, etc.

    They were legally required to follow-up on the CI’s representations only to confirm that it was all bullshit.

    Of course, this approach probably leaves Zullow in the Wilderness and essentially makes him the fall guy.

  7. avatar
    James M April 24, 2015 at 12:32 pm #

    Could this end Snow’s involvement in the process?

  8. avatar
    J.D. Sue April 24, 2015 at 12:47 pm #

    DSM: Lemons and the Phoenix New Times are to be congratulated. Their reporting has been spot on.

    —-
    I agree. And I feel happy for Lemons when I read in his article this morning, “In my line of work, it doesn’t get much better than a federal judge handing your column to a public official, and getting the accused pol to confirm the column’s facts, one by one, under oath.” Indeed!

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2015/04/arpaio_cops_to_investigating_federal_judge_judges_wife_confirming_new_times.php

  9. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 12:50 pm #

    I think there’s little chance that Judge Snow will recuse himself–not this late in the proceedings. This type of removal would encourage litigants to do just what Arpaio did with the idea they can through their own misconduct rid themselves of unfriendly jurists.

    Further, federal judges are notoriously unconcerned with what anybody thinks. He knows he ain’t gonna be impeached.

    How this all affects the Judge’s actions re a criminal contempt referral or Justice Department investigation remains to be seen.

  10. avatar
    Reality Check April 24, 2015 at 12:56 pm #

    I think Snow wanted to get Arpaio to acknowledge certain facts from the article under oath. He did that. Now he can refer this to the US Attorney’s office and it is out of his hands. He didn’t order evidence to be preserved just for show. He is serious. Mike Zullo should be very, very worried today.

    I agree that Judge Snow will remain on the civil case. If he finds there was probably cause for criminal contempt charges that was going to be referred to the US Attorney anyway.

  11. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 1:07 pm #

    Reality Check: Mike Zullo should be very, very worried today.

    Am I wrong for finding pleasure in that?

  12. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 1:17 pm #

    So does Judge Snow continue his informal investigation of the Montgomery scam when Chief Deputy Jerry Sheridan takes the stand?

  13. avatar
    Gerry April 24, 2015 at 1:19 pm #

    Not exactly universe shattering, but interesting. What laws were broken and by whom?

  14. avatar
    wrecking ball April 24, 2015 at 1:32 pm #

    Reality Check:
    He is serious. Mike Zullo should be very, very worried today.

    what about zullo claiming that the “cold case posse” is independent of the MCSO? could he legally destroy any communications between montgomery and the CCP/himself?

  15. avatar
    Notorial Dissent April 24, 2015 at 1:34 pm #

    I think Snow will finish the civil contempt case, I don’t see how Arpaio cannot be convicted at this point, and then it will be handed off to the justice department for investigation and prosecution and another judge for criminal proceedings, which again, i think Arpaio has pretty well guaranteed at this point. I think the phrase toast comes to mind at this point.

  16. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 24, 2015 at 1:41 pm #

    If indeed Arpaio used public funds for a personal investigation, I think there must be a law broken in there somewhere. ARS 13:1802 covers theft of property or services, which for the amounts we are talking about here is a Class 2 felony. The general definition of misappropriation of funds is:

    the intentional, illegal use of the property or funds of another person for one’s own use or other unauthorized purpose, particularly by a public official, a trustee of a trust, an executor or administrator of a dead person’s estate, or by any person with a responsibility to care for and protect another’s assets (a fiduciary duty). It is a felony (a crime punishable by a prison sentence).

    Also there is this from the Stephen Lemons article today:

    When I called former U.S. Attorney Paul Charlton for his assessment, he said he believed federal laws may have been broken concerning the intimidation of a sitting district court judge and possible obstruction of justice.

    We do not know exactly who did what at this point. My understanding is that the $100,000 came from a confidential informant fund. In court testimony yesterday, Arpaio wasn’t sure. It may have been RICO money.

    As far as Zullo is concerned, I can’t say that a law was broken, but then there are lots of laws I don’t know about. Where there is room for speculation as regards Zullo, it is around the Cold Case Posse’s tax exempt status and whether any of the Posse’s funds were used for Zullo’s personal benefit.

    Gerry: Not exactly universe shattering, but interesting. What laws were broken and by whom?

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 24, 2015 at 1:45 pm #

    Arpaio has already admitted to guilt in the civil contempt charge. That’s a done deal; however, there are many investigations ongoing. They were supposed to be done and the results turned over to plaintiffs by now. That is why more hearings are scheduled for June.

    The rock is still being turned over.

    Notorial Dissent: I think Snow will finish the civil contempt case, I don’t see how Arpaio cannot be convicted at this point

  18. avatar
    Curious George April 24, 2015 at 2:49 pm #

    This comment was posted by ToldYouSo at the Phoenix New Times. This is the complete quote:

    “I hope that someone from Judge Snows team gets to review this article prior to Sheridan taking the stand to ask him questions about Montgomery’s scam.

    First off my sources within the agency have shared with me that the reason they hired Montgomery because of Zullo’s claim that Montgomery had a computer program that could hack into the DOJ system and “scrape” emails and other documents relating to the DOJ investigation and from Judge Snow.

    Sheridan and other higher ranking officials within the office did not approve of this however Arpaio over road their objections and even paid Montgomery $10,000 out of his own pocket to begin the investigation.

    The office purchased over $50,000 of computer equipment for Montgomery and rented him a condo in Seattle where Zullo, Mackiewicz and Anglin helped him set up his operation.

    While Montgomery was doing his supposed “hacking” Machiewicz in the mean time is hitting the wineries around the Seattle area posting photos of himself having a good time and billing tens of thousands of dollars to the Sheriff’s office for overtime.

    When all the numbers are finally added up with CI payments to Montgomery at $10,000 a month, condo renal fees, transportation, overtime, computer equipment it adds up to over a million dollars that was spent by Arpaio to derail this investigation by performing an illegal act by hacking into the DOJ.

    The sad part of all this is that sources, including myself reported this information over a year ago to the DOJ and they thought it was too outlandish even for Arpaio to do and didn’t believe it.

    Now that the truth has come out the ax is going to fall and Joe himself will be wearing pink panties till he dies!”

  19. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 3:10 pm #

    I am not sure the source or use of Arpaio’s funding is the sexy issue. Whether his Operation hacked the Justice Department, the Federal Court, or related entities. That’s where the fun begins. And the criminal liability.

  20. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 24, 2015 at 3:29 pm #

    According to testimony, what Montgomery provided was “crap” and I think this means that he didn’t successfully hack anything.

    DSM: Whether his Operation hacked the Justice Department, the Federal Court, or related entities

  21. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 3:42 pm #

    The irony is that Obots want Montgomery to have been fabulously successful. We want him to have intercepted privileged material, hacked government email systems, captured Judge Snow’s private communications.

    Cause I seriously doubt any valid warrant covering these activities was obtained.

    The fact that Arpaio claimed the Operation wasn’t successful does not, to my thinking, suggest Montgomery did not hack government systems. Rather it establishes they didn’t get material that could use to incriminate Snow, Holder, or the President.

  22. avatar
    Loren April 24, 2015 at 4:13 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    As far as Zullo is concerned, I can’t say that a law was broken, but then there are lots of laws I don’t know about. Where there is room for speculation as regards Zullo, it is around the Cold Case Posse’s tax exempt status and whether any of the Posse’s funds were used for Zullo’s personal benefit.

    While unrelated to the contempt charges, this development got me wondering about how Arizona’s open records laws might apply to the CCP.

    Also, whether that possibility of disclosure might be contributing, at least a little, to Zullo and Co. insisting that their investigation is still ongoing. As long as it’s still technically “open”, that’s one more ground to deny releasing records in response to a request.

  23. avatar
    Reality Check April 24, 2015 at 4:28 pm #

    Where in the world did you get that idea? Montgomery is a scammer. He was never going to hack into anything other than someones wallet. .

    DSM: The irony is that Obots want Montgomery to have been fabulously successful. We want him to have intercepted privileged material, hacked government email systems, captured Judge Snow’s private communication

  24. avatar
    Loren April 24, 2015 at 4:43 pm #

    Sure enough, buried in an article in today’s Phoenix New Times:

    …Cold Case Posse honcho Mike Zullo, best known for his involvement in the investigation of President Barack Obama’s birth certificate.

    I’ve asked Arpaio about the investigation in the past, and he’s never denied it.

    Currently, I have a number of nearly year-old public records requests that have been denied because they regard what the MCSO calls “an ongoing investigation”.

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2015/04/arpaio_cops_to_investigating_federal_judge_judges_wife_confirming_new_times.php

  25. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 5:04 pm #

    @RealityCheck

    I think you might want to check out Dennis Montgomery’s history. He is no ordinary scammer. I suggest you read the lengthy Playboy piece referenced in Stephen Lemon’s story in todays’ Phoenix New Times.

    This guy extracted millions $$ from the federal government for phony software. And he avoided subsequent prosecution or even a serious attempt at restitution.

    This guy had meetings at the White House!

    He later injected himself in a serious way into Nevada state politics with some interesting repercussions.

    I think it’s entirely possible that he hacked into government systems. I think it equally plausible that he fabricated supposedly privileged communications for Zullow and the gang.

    Underestimating Montgomery would be a serious mistake.

  26. avatar
    Reality Check April 24, 2015 at 5:15 pm #

    Which is it then? I would certainly believe the latter but not the former. I don’t underestimate Montgomery’s abilities as a scammer. It sounds like he was quite adept. Let;s clarify who was in the White House when Montgomery got an audience. It would not happen with the current resident.

    DSM: I think it’s entirely possible that he hacked into government systems. I think it equally plausible that he fabricated supposedly privileged communications for Zullow and the gang.

    Underestimating Montgomery would be a serious mistake.

  27. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 24, 2015 at 5:20 pm #

    I’m guessing the “Freedumb Friday” show is gonna be a bit light on the A&Z rhetoric today.

  28. avatar
    Gerry April 24, 2015 at 5:24 pm #

    Conspiracy to enter a government computer system when not authorized. Public money to investigate a campaign issue. The whole Zullo CCP finances thing is ripe for examination. Abuse of power. A comment about Sheriff AARPaio not getting elected being grounds to start a public funded election. Only if you are Murray Snow’s wife. Was the email tip sent in by Zullo or similar ilk.

  29. avatar
    Gerry April 24, 2015 at 5:28 pm #

    Finally, Carl Galloops was not the one to first share Zullo’s big universe shattering secret with the public. Assuming this was what Zullo was so giddy about. Seems like Zullo shot his wad long before he was inside on this one.

  30. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 24, 2015 at 5:36 pm #

    The CCP has maintained that they are not a public agency, and so the open records law does not apply to them. Of course for the IRS, they are affiliated.

    Loren: While unrelated to the contempt charges, this development got me wondering about how Arizona’s open records laws might apply to the CCP.

  31. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 5:58 pm #

    @Reality Check

    I don’t think it’s one or the other. I suspect he did hack into government networks and showed the results to Zullow. I think he also fabricated materials that he passed off as having come from these same hacking activities.

    With all due respect, Montgomery when he was scamming the feds was right in the middle of this country’s intelligence operations. You don’t think he can hack a government network?

    I don’t think Zullow is as stupid or credulous as most around here believe. I’ve always accepted that he actually believed he had universe shattering info. Dennis Montgomery has established that he can inspire that conclusion in very sophisticated people.

    I’ve dealt with alot of fraudsters as a criminal defense attorney. Montgomery is in the elite class.

    Montgomery’s visits to the White House didn’t depend upon the particular administration. He wasn’t there to meet with the President. It wasn’t politics. It’s relevance goes only to an assessment of his ability to convince experts of his bona fides. Quite impressive really.

  32. avatar
    Reality Check April 24, 2015 at 6:03 pm #

    Well you just blew any credibility you might have had with that statement. Have you heard Zullow [sic] speak? Did you watch him stand up at two press conferences and present complete discredited nonsense as evidence of a crime?

    DSM: I don’t think Zullow is as stupid or credulous as most around here believe.

  33. avatar
    JayHG April 24, 2015 at 6:07 pm #

    James M:
    Could this end Snow’s involvement in the process?

    No.

  34. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 24, 2015 at 6:09 pm #

    I base my opinion that Zullo is stupid or credulous based on the two press conference presentations that he made, filled with junk science, misrepresentations, and reliance on hucksters (i.e. Jerome Corsi). No matter how slick Montgomery appeared, Arpaio/Zullo should have checked him out first.

    As I recall, Montgomery’s alleged expertise was not in network hacking, but in signals analysis.

    DSM: I don’t think Zullow is as stupid or credulous as most around here believe. I’ve always accepted that he actually believed he had universe shattering info. Dennis Montgomery has established that he can inspire that conclusion in very sophisticated people.

  35. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 6:18 pm #

    DSM: I think you might want to check out Dennis Montgomery’s history. He is no ordinary scammer.

    Show us your evidence.

  36. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 6:20 pm #

    DSM: The irony is that Obots want Montgomery to have been fabulously successful.

    No, what Obots want is a solid proof accompanying the kind of accusations you are making. We want to see justice done for actual wrongdoing, not based solely on speculation, show us your evidence.

  37. avatar
    Reality Check April 24, 2015 at 6:25 pm #

    Well said.

    bgansel9: No, what Obots want is a solid proof accompanying the kind of accusations you are making. We want to see justice done for actual wrongdoing, not based solely on speculation, show us your evidence.

  38. avatar
    Reality Check April 24, 2015 at 6:28 pm #

    Lest we forget the last resident of the White House got suckered in by Curveball into going to war in Iraq for nothing. That Cheney’s folks got suckered in by Dennis Montgomery is not at all surprising.

  39. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 6:30 pm #

    @Reality Check

    Perhaps I should have made my opinions clearer. I am not saying Zullow is a particularly bright or sophisticated indivudual. What I am saying is that when he went way out on the limb and promised universe shattering information it was because something really shook him up. Not the usual birther bs that he was use to dealing with.

    I noticed immediately that his excitement about this new information involving the Justice Department goosed him in way that nothing previous had. I think at that point he actually believed his own publicity. Dennis Montgomery is the type of person with the rare ability to inspire that type of over confidence and hysteria.

    Montgomery is many notches above Taitz, Volin, Jordan, Butterwhat’shername or the other passengers in the clown car. Hence, the giddiness and certitude exhibited by Zullow. My views are really more an appreciation of Montgomery’s talents than an evaluation of Zullow’s gullibility.

  40. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 6:34 pm #

    DSM: Montgomery is many notches above Taitz, Volin, Jordan, Butterwhat’shername or the other passengers in the clown car.

    Based on what evidence?

  41. avatar
    Yoda April 24, 2015 at 7:01 pm #

    The CCP was ripe to be conned. If you accept the premise that Zullo actually believed his own bullcrap, he must also have known was a national joke as a used care salesman posing as a law enforcement officer. With a strong belief in a falsehood and a tattered reputation, any con man could have come along and easily convinced him that he good deliver the goods that would provide him with the national fame and credibility he so obviously craves.

  42. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 7:05 pm #

    bgansel9: No, what Obots want is a solid proof accompanying the kind of accusations you are making. We want to see justice done for actual wrongdoing, not based solely on speculation, show us your evidence.

    Gee, tough crowd.

    I’m not making any accusations other that I think it more likely than not that Dennis Montgomery hacked government networks on behalf of Zullow and Arpaio. That’s it. Nothing more.

    I would assume that opponents of Zullow would like that to be the case as any such activity was almost certainly illegal.

    As to Montgomery’s abilities I would refer you to the Playboy article cited in Stephen Lemon’s extraordinary article in today’s Phoenix New Times.

    If you think scamming the federal government out of a small fortune based on certain alleged esoteric computer skills is easily accomplished then you have seen more of the world than I have. And to do so without apparent consequence… I personally find that quite rare.

    Nothing that I have written has suggested that the birth certificate is invalid or that Zullow is a person of intelligence or integrity. I don’t believe either of those things to be true. But, jeezus, neither is Zullow a imbecile. Certainly if he was that would be a factor in mitigation as concerns his culpability.

    A small example. Kennedy and all around conspiracy specialist Mark Lane is wrong about almost everything he thinks or does. But he’s brilliant. I’m not putting Zullow in that league. But it’s a mistake to caricature your opponents.

  43. avatar
    bob April 24, 2015 at 7:38 pm #

    Andrew Vrba, PmG:
    I’m guessing the “Freedumb Friday” show is gonna be a bit light on the A&Z rhetoric today.

    It was. However, Cruz and Rubio are RINOs!!! (Says Gallups.)

  44. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 7:47 pm #

    DSM: This guy extracted millions $$ from the federal government for phony software. And he avoided subsequent prosecution or even a serious attempt at restitution.

    This guy had meetings at the White House!

    He later injected himself in a serious way into Nevada state politics with some interesting repercussions.

    I think it’s entirely possible that he hacked into government systems. I think it equally plausible that he fabricated supposedly privileged communications for Zullow and the gang.

    Not making any accusations? You need to prove these allegations instead of just speculating. Where’s your proof?

  45. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 7:49 pm #

    DSM: If you think scamming the federal government out of a small fortune based on certain alleged esoteric computer skills is easily accomplished then you have seen more of the world than I have. And to do so without apparent consequence… I personally find that quite rare.

    You haven’t proved that he did “scam the federal government.” Where is your proof?

  46. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 7:53 pm #

    DSM: Nothing that I have written has suggested that the birth certificate is invalid or that Zullow is a person of intelligence or integrity.

    Are you seriously going to use this as an excuse? You said Obots want Montgomery to have hacked into these emails and been successful. I told you Obots don’t want baseless accusations and speculation to be fodder for rumors, that we want proof and justice for wrongdoing if these things actually happened. You make us look like FOOLS trying to serve this milk and cookies childishness. Proof or shut up!

  47. avatar
    HistorianDude April 24, 2015 at 7:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: According to testimony, what Montgomery provided was “crap” and I think this means that he didn’t successfully hack anything.

    This also puts a dismal close on the “second criminal investigation.” that has been allegedly “jumping legal hurdles” for the last year.

    Zullo and Gallups are exposed again as the bilious liars we have always known them to be.

  48. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 7:58 pm #

    HistorianDude: Zullo and Gallups are exposed again as the bilious liars we have always known them to be.

    John is still waiting for that universe shattering evidence though, I’m sure.

  49. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 8:03 pm #

    Please, folks, read the Playboy article on Dennis Montgomery and then yell at me to the effect that he’s a common conman.

    http://www.stopdown.net/Dennis_Montgomery_Playboy.html

  50. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 8:14 pm #

    DSM:
    Please, folks, read the Playboy article on Dennis Montgomery and then yell at me to the effect that he’s a common conman.

    http://www.stopdown.net/Dennis_Montgomery_Playboy.html

    DSM:
    Please, folks, read the Playboy article on Dennis Montgomery and then yell at me to the effect that he’s a common conman.

    He was a con! – http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/maddow-on-the-incredible-magic-al-jazeera-scam-video

  51. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 8:17 pm #

    bgansel9: Not making any accusations? You need to prove these allegations instead of just speculating. Where’s your proof?

    Have you done the slightest enquiry into the background of Dennis Montgomery. Made even a feeble effort to understand his skill set or the sophistication of the people he has scammed in the past.

    Start here and, then, get back to me:

    http://www.stopdown.net/Dennis_Montgomery_Playboy.html

  52. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 8:18 pm #

    DSM: Start here and, then, get back to me:

    I already did. See the video I posted above. He’s a con.

  53. avatar
    Bonsall Obot April 24, 2015 at 8:19 pm #

    Most of us read the Playboy article months ago, when Lemons revealed the links between Arpaio & Zullo and Dennis Montgomery.

    Zullo is a certifiable idiot of zero accomplishment. He may very well have believed that the universe was going to shatter, but ONLY because he believed Montgomery. On the other hand, there’s zero evidence that Montgomery ever hacked any computer system, just that he managed to convince credulous parties that he could and did. There’s no evidence for Montgomery’s skill as a hacker, just as a con man.

    Bottom line: Mike Zullo’s belief in something is not evidence. On the contrary, he is so frequently dishonest and wrong, Zullo’s belief in something is a strong inidicator of its falsity.

  54. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 8:24 pm #

    What you fail to realize, DSM, is that if a 12 year old boy came up with a simple scam to make more money using our war machine and Iraq as a pinata, Cheney and Bush would have exploited the plan as far as they could to extract something out of it. They swore that WMD existed and it didn’t. They swore the war would last week or months, certainly not years (it lasted more than 7 years). They swore we would be welcomed with candy and flowers. Didn’t happen. They told us that the war wouldn’t cost anything, the oil would pay for it, and we didn’t have to sacrifice anything for it. Instead, they put more than A TRILLION dollars on an imaginary credit card and hid the debt. They would have used any possible scam they could to exploit the situation. This is not surprising at all.

  55. avatar
    Rickey April 24, 2015 at 8:24 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    According to testimony, what Montgomery provided was “crap” and I think this means that he didn’t successfully hack anything.

    I too doubt that Montgomery ever got anything.

    Not that is helps Arpaio. Attempted robbery is just as much a crime as actual robbery. Arpaio, Zullo, et al. clearly conspired to illegally access government computers, even though they didn’t know that they were being conned.

  56. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 8:29 pm #

    Bonsall Obot: Bottom line: Mike Zullo’s belief in something is not evidence. On the contrary, he is so frequently dishonest and wrong, Zullo’s belief in something is a strong inidicator of its falsity.

    Well put!

  57. avatar
    wrecking ball April 24, 2015 at 8:41 pm #

    Rickey: Arpaio, Zullo, et al. clearly conspired to illegally access government computers, even though they didn’t know that they were being conned.

    this is the bottom line for me. i’m hoping that all communications between arpaio/zullo and montgomery are released but….. i’m thinking that a long shot.

  58. avatar
    gorefan April 24, 2015 at 8:52 pm #

    Remember this from Mark Gillar talking about the CCP and the investigation on the December 6th, 2013 Volin show (beginning at 1:32:00).

    “there are going to be a lot of people in jail before this is over with.”

    “But there is extreme reason for hope right now.”

    “Never has there been so much enthusiasm, so much confidence, such a high level of morale as there is right now regard this Obama document fraud investigation.”

    “We have never, ever been this excited before.”

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/wheresobamasbirthcertificatexcom/2013/12/07/michigan-gubernatorial-candidate-mark-mcfarlin-discusses-issues-obamas-forgery

    They bought whatever Montgomery was peddling hook line and sinker.

  59. avatar
    wrecking ball April 24, 2015 at 9:11 pm #

    gorefan:

    “there are going to be a lot of people in jail before this is over with.”

    they may be right on this point.

  60. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 9:40 pm #

    wrecking ball: they may be right on this point.

    Not exactly what they intended. Bwahahahaha!

  61. avatar
    JayHG April 24, 2015 at 9:46 pm #

    DSM said: “Perhaps I should have made my opinions clearer. I am not saying Zullow is a particularly bright or sophisticated indivudual. What I am saying is that when he went way out on the limb and promised universe shattering information it was because something really shook him up. Not the usual birther bs that he was use to dealing with.”

    I disagree…all the birthers (of which Zullo is one) do is make wild over the top promises to their gullible followers who are desperate and wide open to believe that President Obama and really Sasha’s and Malia’s mother if Arpiao and Zullo suggested. Nothing had to shake Zullo up – he didn’t get any SPECIAL news that was different form anything else he’s gotten. I’m convinced of that because they are willing to offer up so much speculative stuff and even outright lies in the case of that chart they offered up about codes where they pretended it was for one ye

  62. avatar
    scott_e April 24, 2015 at 10:20 pm #

    i Like all of it. so there

  63. avatar
    john April 24, 2015 at 10:32 pm #

    Carl Gallup at one point said the Universe Shattering information was historic. There may be so truth to this. It appears that there are or were allegations of illegal wiretapping of phones, email among other things from the DOJ which have been historically highly illegal, corrupt and devious acts by our government. This would be universe shattering information assuming any of the allegations are true.

  64. avatar
    DSM April 24, 2015 at 10:43 pm #

    “When the liaison team stepped into eTreppid’s office, the CIA man in charge introduced himself as Sid but didn’t give his last name. He was tall and in his 50s, with a well-ironed shirt, a paunch and a mildly robotic politeness. “We called him Sid Vicious,” one eTreppid technician explained, “because he was anything but.”

    Sid’s team set up on the first floor in an unused office and had special cipher locks installed. Workers carted in a heavy-duty paper shredder that could transform classified documents to dust in seconds. They set up impenetrable safes with combination locks protected by privacy screens so bystanders couldn’t steal the code.”

    So Montgomery worked in person with a CIA technical team and based upon this effort air flight schedules were modified internationally. And you believe that this type of con didn’t require first order technical skills. You think all these CIA employees were so lacking in computer skills that all Montgomery had to do was push a button, wave his hands in the air and spit out some paper.

    I’ve never worked with the CIA but I’ve come across a few FBI special agents and you ain’t gonna be able to bs them unless you got a pretty good game. Nobody is going to accept the type of expertise Montgomery projected without some due diligence. Can they be fooled? Obviously, Montgomery did it. Is it easy? Not in my experience.

    From this I assume that Montgomery was eminently capable of hacking into government networks. In the same way that these types of penetration occur every day of week–by both private parties and foreign nations.

    Zullow was convinced that the Department of Justice was conspiring with Judge Snow and other parties. This supposition was most probably planted by Montgomery. Based thereon he supplied Montgomery with equipment and the mandate to get to the bottom of the whole thing.

    I can’t prove that Montgomery accessed a privileged network. But if technical people at the CIA thought he had the skills to intercept terrorist communications I judge he had the ability to fiddle with federal email accounts.

    I simply do not understand the argument that because Arpaio claimed the investigation came to nothing that means Montgomery did not succeed in his hacking.

    Are you expecting that Arpaio would admit that his agent feloniously hacked the DOJ?

    Do you assume that if he did hack the Judge there would be incriminating emails by Snow that Arpaio would then disgorge?

    If Montgomery was successful exactly what would you expect Arpaio to testify to?

    My basic disagreement with folks here apparently hinges on differing evaluations of Zullow and Montgomery. I expect that Zullow would have required some genuine intercepts before he went bat shit crazy with his universe shattering talk. Not incriminating material but real emails or such. But even if was not true I would expect that Montgomery would produce said materials anyway just because he could.

    The crazy stuff could be fabricated later.

    I can’t prove that Montgomery succeeded in his hack. But I cannot comprehend why people here are so certain that he didn’t. It’s like you’re saying that if he had succeeded he would have actually produced evidence that the birth certificate was forged. Ridiculous.

    In conclusion, if Montgomery had the skills to hack the government why on earth wouldn’t he do it?

    Bonsall Obot:
    Most of us read the Playboy article months ago, when Lemons revealed the links between Arpaio & Zullo and Dennis Montgomery.

    Zullo is a certifiable idiot of zero accomplishment. He may very well have believed that the universe was going to shatter, but ONLY because he believed Montgomery. On the other hand, there’s zero evidence that Montgomery ever hacked any computer system, just that he managed to convince credulous parties that he could and did. There’s no evidence for Montgomery’s skill as a hacker, just as a con man.

    Bottom line: Mike Zullo’s belief in something is not evidence. On the contrary, he is so frequently dishonest and wrong, Zullo’s belief in something is a strong inidicator of its falsity.

  65. avatar
    Joey April 24, 2015 at 10:47 pm #

    john:
    Carl Gallup at one point said the Universe Shattering information was historic.There may be so truth to this.It appears that there are or were allegations of illegal wiretapping of phones, email among other things from the DOJ which have been historically highly illegal, corrupt and devious acts by our government.This would be universe shattering information assuming any of the allegations are true.

    What would any of that have to do with President Obama’s eligibility?

  66. avatar
    john April 24, 2015 at 10:54 pm #

    Joey: What would any of that have to do with President Obama’s eligibility?

    It wouldn’t Gallup has always said the 2nd investigation did not concern the birth certificate or Obama’s eligibility for that matter.

  67. avatar
    HistorianDude April 24, 2015 at 11:02 pm #

    john: It wouldn’t Gallup has always said the 2nd investigation did not concern the birth certificate or Obama’s eligibility for that matter.

    And Arpaio testified that the results of that investigation was… let me see… what the word? Oh yeah.

    Crap.

  68. avatar
    Notorial Dissent April 24, 2015 at 11:04 pm #

    My take on the Montgomery fiasco is that he is/was a good conman, I think his history and credentials prove that. I have no idea what his computer credentials really are, although he apparently talks a good game with people who don’t know any better, and he seemed to make a point of sticking to people who didn’t. I have friends who do. He found, by whatever means, which I’ve gone over before, two prime technophobic techignorant schmucks who would swallow his con hook, line, and sinker, Zullo, and Arpaio because his con fitted in with their fantasies of glory and revenge. I seriously doubt he really hacked anything except their bank accounts for the following simple reasons; there was nothing to hack to begin with since the whole thing was a con, he’s lazy and real hacking is work, hacking those gov’t servers would have been a big time Fed crime, and the likelihood of getting caught over non-existent material wouldn’t have been worth it, and it would be magnitudes easier to string the marks along if he were manufacturing and controlling what they were getting and seeing than if he were actually rummaging around in a real server for non-existent information. I was right about Montgomery’s part in A-Z Day, I still think I’m right about how he connected with Zullo the Klown, and I feel that my scenario of how and what he did makes as much or more sense than any of the others floating around. I still say the conman conned to the two bigger conmen and took them to the cleaners.

  69. avatar
    bgansel9 April 24, 2015 at 11:14 pm #

    HistorianDude: Crap.

    Yeah, but was it Universe Shattering Crap?

  70. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG April 24, 2015 at 11:45 pm #

    john: Carl Gallup at one point said the Universe Shattering information was historic. There may be so truth to this.

    If, after all this, you’re still willing to believe a single thing Gallups has to say, there’s really no hope for you.

  71. avatar
    Loren April 24, 2015 at 11:56 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    The CCP has maintained that they are not a public agency, and so the open records law does not apply to them. Of course for the IRS, they are affiliated.

    True, but given the press conferences and paying for Zullo’s entourage and the like, it would seem likely that the Sheriff’s Office *itself* would have at least some records regarding the Obama investigation.

    But, as the New Times article suggests, as long as the CCP claims that its investigation is ongoing, it gives the Sheriff’s Office cover to deny even the open records requests directed at them.

  72. avatar
    Loren April 25, 2015 at 12:03 am #

    john:
    This would be universe shattering information assuming any of the allegations are true.

    You could say the exact same thing about David Icke.

  73. avatar
    Jim April 25, 2015 at 12:06 am #

    john:
    Carl Gallup at one point said the Universe Shattering information was historic.

    I can go with that john, it’s historically stupid how the Sheriff wasted the taxpayers money on a con.

  74. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 25, 2015 at 12:47 am #

    My recollection was that Montgomery did not intercept terrorist network traffic, but rather found “hidden messages” in what he claimed were bar codes in TV signals from Al Jazeera. The Playboy article said: “Montgomery called the work he was doing noise filtering.” They got on to him when they found that his results were not reproducible. I’ll grant you that he is a slick operator, and it could be that he had some expertise in pattern recognition and signal processing (even though he had no training in them); however, those skills are not applicable to hacking into somebody’s emails. He was selling them bar-coded pictures of Santa Claus found in clouds, not intercepted emails.

    DSM: I can’t prove that Montgomery accessed a privileged network. But if technical people at the CIA thought he had the skills to intercept terrorist communications I judge he had the ability to fiddle with federal email accounts.

  75. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 25, 2015 at 12:57 am #

    That would be contrary to Zullo’s past history. He has been conned repeatedly, like with the fake Race Code table somebody fed him, or these expert image analysts whose arguments fell apart.

    Plus, how would Zullo know a genuine intercept if he saw it?

    I do have a very low opinion of Mike Zullo, but he earned it. I don’t think this is bias against birthers talking.

    DSM: My basic disagreement with folks here apparently hinges on differing evaluations of Zullow and Montgomery. I expect that Zullow would have required some genuine intercepts before he went bat shit crazy with his universe shattering talk.

  76. avatar
    John Reilly April 25, 2015 at 1:44 am #

    john:
    Carl Gallup at one point said the Universe Shattering information was historic.There may be so truth to this.It appears that there are or were allegations of illegal wiretapping of phones, email among other things from the DOJ which have been historically highly illegal, corrupt and devious acts by our government.This would be universe shattering information assuming any of the allegations are true.

    I don’t have a problem with that. If that guy had certain markers that might lead then to suspect him to be illegal, they definitely should do it. Illegal immigration is bad problem in this country and you have try to catch do you get rid of them as they are a drain on government resources and usually sources of crime and disease and of course they don’t belong in this country so they are vermin or infestations.

    So if I understand John correctly, wiretapping and intercepting e-mail are highly illegal except when directed at Arabs, Moslems, Mexicans and African-Americans, when it is justifiable and desirable racial profiling.

    Huh?

  77. avatar
    DSM April 25, 2015 at 3:42 am #

    There are script kitties who regularly invade government data bases. There are literally thousands of Russians and Chinese who make a living harvesting supposedly secured consumer records. Anonymous frequently carries out successful directed attacks on specifically identified hard targets like law enforcement servers.

    But Montgomery lacks the bona fides to accomplish this type of penetration? Why?

    I’m not arguing that Montgomery actually intercepted terrorist communications. I don’t know one way or the other. I’m asserting that Montgomery was vetted by people with sufficient technical expertise to know whether he had the skill set to carry out complex clandestine computer tasks. That he conned them for a good period of time is not an insignificant accomplishment.

    I personally don’t believe the CIA sent a gaggle of forensic illiterates to spend days with him as he turned knobs on a black box. Why would they invest hugh sums of money without performing basic due diligence and having competent people report back on his skills? They might not understand his supposed proprietary software but they would surely have been able to evaluate his intelligence, knowledge and abilities around a computer.

    I understand that people are more readily deceived when they badly want something to be true. And the feds in the case at hand were grasping for a magic bullet to use against the bad guys. But you still have to demonstrate baseline competency with the appropriate experts to get to the next stage. And the baseline in this matter I expect was rather high.

    As I remarked before I have no experience with the CIA. But I don’t expect the quality of their technical personnel to be inferior to that of the FBI. And I can absolutely guarantee that Montgomery would never have passed an FBI screening in computational magic without establishing the proficiency of a real genuine expert.

    A chiropractor is not going to fool a neuro surgeon. A handyman is not going to deceive a licensed contractor. And some computer futz ain’t going to get past the first round with a government agent tasked with electronically intercepting terrorist communications.

    I understand the counter-argument to be that Zullow is stupid therefore Montgomery is by definition a talentless hack who merely phonied up some clearly bogus paperwork. One does not follow from the other. Zullow might well be on the wrong side of the Bell Curve but that hardly explains Montgomery passing muster with divers government agencies and some rather sophisticated people in the business and political world.

    Bottom line: I deal with alot of smart people. Many more intelligent that myself. Physicians, scientists, academics, and experts in a number of fields. Some of the same types who were swindled by Montgomery. They can be fooled but not easily and not by some small time petty conman.

  78. avatar
    Curious George April 25, 2015 at 4:36 am #

    DSM

    “I expect that Zullow would have required some genuine intercepts before he went bat shit crazy with his universe shattering talk.”

    Your expectation is far too high. Think back to when ZooLow thought the Feds arrested the BC forgery suspect as reported by the Globe supermarket tabloid. It apparently didn’t take too much convincing for him to go “bat shit crazy” about a nutty Globe article. ZooLow would have been putty in Montgomery’s hands, or almost anyone who went along with his conspiratorial beliefs, I suspect.

  79. avatar
    Notorial Dissent April 25, 2015 at 5:17 am #

    DSM, there is no argument that gov’t and private databases aren’t being hacked on a daily basis. There is no point in arguing it, it isn’t relevant to the discussion at hand. The question before the house as it were is whether or not Montgomery could have hacked in to a secure gov’t server to get access to information from judge presumably. There is exactly NO evidence that he did or even that he could. What he was selling the CIA was smoke and mirrors, and that is exactly what he sold Zullo and Arpaio. He told them what they wanted to hear and then sold them what they wanted to see, all of which was more than likely manufactured to order. I don’t think there is any real evidence that Montgomery is a hacker, or is even qualified to pretend to be a hacker, what is proven and known about him is that he is a conman. As to Zullo knowing what an authentic message was, come on, he has been fooled repeatedly with so called proofs, he didn’t know they weren’t then, he wouldn’t know it now. In plan fact, Zullo is an idiot, that he can feed and dress himself remains a mystery to me. Zullo has repeatedly and publicly proven himself to be a fool, so there is no question there. The Shurf probably has no idea of even how to turn on a computer much less use one. The only thing he was interested in was something to get his revenge, and Montgomery was more than happy to sell him that dream, for about $150k the last I heard.

  80. avatar
    Lupin April 25, 2015 at 6:06 am #

    Some enterprising conman once used junk science to swindle the French Government out of a hefty sum of money claiming that they could sniff oil deposits from the air:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1984/01/02/world/a-fiasco-in-france-planes-that-can-sniff-out-oil.html

    There is no limit to the gullibility of even very intelligent people in positions of power when a clever swindler is involved.

    I was personally if peripherally involved in the infamous Paretti/Credit Lyonnais swindle…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giancarlo_Parretti

    …And I can attest that I saw some very smart bankers taken to the cleaners by a charming rogue and their own greed and arrogance, and nothing we the lower echelons could say to alert them could penetrate their bubble.

    Here we are dealing with a proven imbecile (Zullo) and a bumpkin county sheriff, both blinded by ego and other baser emotions.

    I’m sure they must have been easy prey to fleece for someone like Montgomery.

  81. avatar
    Keith April 25, 2015 at 8:23 am #

    Lupin: I was personally if peripherally involved in the infamous Paretti/Credit Lyonnais swindle…

    Likewise, I was peripherally (very peripherally) involved in the collapse of the State Bank of Victoria

    The140yo State owned bank with the largest mortgage portfolio in Victoria took over Merchant Bank “Tricontenental” when Australia ‘deregulated’ banks in the late 80’s. SBV then proceeded to give the Tricontenentel CEO complete autonomy and ignored him completely. Tricontenental made huge loans with almost no protection other than the good name of the SBV. It collapsed with a loan portfolio of over $3.5 billion. About $2.1 billion was eventually recovered.

    One of the most spectacular failures was a huge loan to an ’emergency preparedness’ company that had thousands of containers “filled” with emergency supplies and equipment. Except they were empty and there was only a couple of hundred containers. The head of that one went to jail and eventually killed himself.

    The loans were backed by SBV and the failure brought the bank to its knees. In the end the State sold it off to the Commonwealth Bank (at the time owned by the Feds) in a fire sale. Extremely traumatic.

  82. avatar
    john April 25, 2015 at 9:19 am #

    I guess now we know where DARPA came from.

  83. avatar
    HistorianDude April 25, 2015 at 9:57 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I do have a very low opinion of Mike Zullo, but he earned it. I don’t think this is bias against birthers talking.

    Agreed completely! His blithering technological incompetence was on stark display in his “affidavit” where he proved incapable of telling the difference between scanning and photocopying, or even having the most incipient understanding of what OCS was.

    The man was a complete technological plecostomus.

  84. avatar
    Reality Check April 25, 2015 at 10:17 am #

    All you need to know about Zullo is that he got all excited when he saw his own lies about the President published in a tabloid and thought it was a real story from another source.

  85. avatar
    Bob April 25, 2015 at 10:35 am #

    Couldn’t Arpaio / Zullo have googled Montgomery’s name before hiring him? Or aren’t they that internet savvy?

  86. avatar
    gorefan April 25, 2015 at 10:41 am #

    Bob:
    Couldn’t Arpaio / Zullo have googled Montgomery’s name before hiring him?Or aren’t they that internet savvy?

    IIRC, Montgomery has a connection to a wealth business man and to Corsi. That connection may have blinded A/Z.

  87. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 10:55 am #

    DSM: But Montgomery lacks the bona fides to accomplish this type of penetration? Why?

    Because MCSO personnel state Montgomery produced “crap”, correct?

    Do you think Montgomery produced “crap” because he was good at what he was doing? If Montgomery made a deal, why would he present “crap” as the result if he was so good? Wouldn’t he have prepared a much better presentation?

  88. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 10:56 am #

    Reality Check: All you need to know about Zullo is that he got all excited when he saw his own lies about the President published in a tabloid and thought it was a real story from another source.

    I’l bet he wet his pants.

  89. avatar
    Curious George April 25, 2015 at 11:21 am #

    Isn’t Zullo the same fellow who thought Lord Monckton was going to get Zullo British Intelligence protection? It doesn’t take much to take this fellow in.

  90. avatar
    Reality Check April 25, 2015 at 11:37 am #

    No, not much at all. Remember the “Obama witnessed a human sacrifice” story?

    Curious George: It doesn’t take much to take this fellow in.

  91. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 25, 2015 at 12:08 pm #

    john: This would be universe shattering information assuming any of the allegations are true.

    To me, that would be even below Watergate (which was more about the cover-up than the actual wiretapping), and Watergate didn’t shatter anything despite bringing the country close to a constitutional crisis.

    So to me the whole Montgomery angle doesn’t yet rise to that level.
    Then again, Zullo also claimed he had evidence that “would convince even the greatest skeptic” (which he never released), so he might just be on the “far out” end of habitual exaggeration.

  92. avatar
    Curious George April 25, 2015 at 1:00 pm #

    Reality Check
    April 25, 2015
    “No, not much at all. Remember the “Obama witnessed a human sacrifice” story?”

    That was a good one.

    So Arpaio and Sheridan thought Montgomery was a former employee of the CIA and there was a CIA plot to tap the MCSO? Maybe a simple internet search would have answered their questions about Montgomery?

    http://m.kfvs12.com/kfvs12/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:D9Lsh21q

  93. avatar
    Paul April 25, 2015 at 1:21 pm #

    You probably already know… Orly has a link to this post top of her page

  94. avatar
    Joey April 25, 2015 at 2:13 pm #

    john:
    I guess now we know where DARPA came from.

    That federal agency came from the Eisenhower Administration. It was created in 1958.

  95. avatar
    Loren April 25, 2015 at 2:17 pm #

    Anyone in this thread who doubts that even high-level government agencies can be taken in by nonsense and con-men really ought to check out Jon Ronson’s “The Men Who Stare at Goats.”

    The book, that is, not the film. The book is awesome; the movie not so much.

  96. avatar
    Notorial Dissent April 25, 2015 at 2:18 pm #

    Again, I doubt seriously that either the Shurf, or the Depty Shurf are even remotely computer savvy, and I still maintain that the Shurf probably doesn’t even know how to use one, and if he does it is someone telling him what he’s looking at and I’m not betting that the Depty is much more advanced, so no, I don’t think they could have or would have looked anything up. Montgomery conned Zullo, Zullo told the Shurf he’d just found the next best thing to sliced bread and the Shurf bought it hook, line, and sinker because it was what he wanted to hear, and the Depty went along since he was a good and loyal toady and yes man. I think that is fairly simple and straight forward.

  97. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 3:23 pm #

    Notorial Dissent: hook, line, and sink

    You mean “hook, line, and stinker” 😛

  98. avatar
    Reality Check April 25, 2015 at 3:37 pm #

    It’s still all about Orly though. She picked up on the part that Zullo blew off her subpoenas.

    Paul:
    You probably already know… Orly has a link to this post top of her page

  99. avatar
    Paul April 25, 2015 at 3:47 pm #

    Reality Check:
    It’s still all about Orly though.

    It’s ALWAYS all about Orly

  100. avatar
    Notorial Dissent April 25, 2015 at 4:17 pm #

    Yeah, but blowing off one of Orly’s subpoenas is kind of like ignoring a buzzing gnat, it never amounts to anything, and can be easily ignored since she has yet to figure out how to properly serve one.

  101. avatar
    Joey April 25, 2015 at 4:40 pm #

    “Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio Uncharacteristically Contrite In Contempt Hearing” Los Angeles Times: http://www.latimes.com/nation/immigration/la-na-arpaio-contempt-hearing-20150425-story.html

  102. avatar
    Gerry April 25, 2015 at 5:28 pm #

    How did Lemons get onto the trail of the investigations involving Montgomery? Was it because Zullo was alluding to it so many times on Gallups’ show? The best way to keep a secret is to never even hint about it. Zullo could well have burned AARPaio with his verbal flatulence.

  103. avatar
    Fast Falcon April 25, 2015 at 6:13 pm #

    Is it your (all of you) opinion that Zullo was just fed information by the likes of Montgomery but not actually shown evidence, or even physically held it?

    Why would Zullo be so bold as to portray some “truth” without holding credible support?

    Your hypothesis seems to be the explanation for the delay but it doesn’t consider many potential outcomes.

  104. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 25, 2015 at 10:13 pm #

    Zullo gave two press conferences based on no physical evidence, or at least evidence he didn’t understand or misrepresented.

    Zullo was very vague about the “universe-shattering” evidence, I would not be surprised to learn that Zullo made those statements based solely on promises. If Mopntgomery could fool the Pentagon and the CIA with fake data, what chance would Zullo have had?

    Fast Falcon: Is it your (all of you) opinion that Zullo was just fed information by the likes of Montgomery but not actually shown evidence, or even physically held it?

  105. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 25, 2015 at 10:18 pm #

    He got a tip from an informant in the Sheriffs Office.

    Gerry: How did Lemons get onto the trail of the investigations involving Montgomery?

  106. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 25, 2015 at 10:27 pm #

    Most of this Zullo / Montgomery / Universe shattering talk is an argument based on plausibility, and the idea that people act according to patterns in their past.

    It is confirmed by the coincidence of Zullo stopping all mention of the universe-shattering information about the time Montgomery’s background became public.

    We might also check to see if Zullo started talking about the deep dark stuff around the time I started seeing Montgomery, but I don’t know when that was.

    Lemons today:

    “But Montgomery ultimately gave them nothing usable.

    ‘We finally realized he was stringing us along,” said Sheridan.'”

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2015/04/arpaios_chief_deputy_confirms_wack_investigations_of_judges_wife_cia_doj_et.php?page=2

  107. avatar
    bgansel9 April 25, 2015 at 11:50 pm #

    Fast Falcon: Is it your (all of you) opinion that Zullo was just fed information by the likes of Montgomery but not actually shown evidence, or even physically held it?

    Define evidence, please? Would some ideas such as something on par with”The Laffer Curve” on a napkin be considered evidence? Honestly, I think he might have had some written material that just didn’t make any sense when seriously considered (cons like to baffle people with BS) and perhaps it was just too unbelievable even for eager beavers looking for revenge.

  108. avatar
    Notorial Dissent April 25, 2015 at 11:55 pm #

    I still think the logical progression of events is that Zullos little “friend” out in Seattle was shooting his mouth off to anyone who would listen, and probably everyone who wouldn’t, Montgomery got wind of it, either second hand or directly, sucked up to and flattered “friend” who then introduced Montgomery and his traveling side show to Zullo who wouldn’t have known a con if it came with bells, whistles and large signboards, which this one actually did, that no one paid any attention to. So much for Zullo the defective detective and his skills. Zullo sold it to the Shurf who was anxious to get something on his latest enemy, and the rest is history. When it started to fall apart when someone blew the gaff on Montgomery to the press Zullo started crawling under his rock, and seems to have gone completely to ground at this point, since I’m equally sure he is personna non grata as far as the Shurf is concerned. He doesn’t take embarrassment well as past events have shown. I think that is pretty much the timeline.

  109. avatar
    RanTalbott April 26, 2015 at 1:36 am #

    DSM: I’m asserting that Montgomery was vetted by people with sufficient technical expertise to know whether he had the skill set to carry out complex clandestine computer tasks.

    But that’s not what he was being evaluated for.

    I’ve got almost 45 years of professional experience in software, in a variety of areas ranging from writing inventory management in COBOL, to engine control systems, to reverse-engineering communications protocols. So I know from experience that the overlap in skill sets between breaking into secure servers and what Montgomery claimed to be doing for the feds is on the order of 10-20%. Even if he’d been a genuine expert in what he was doing, he’d probably be a rank amateur at compromising system security. As I am, despite decades of experience doing other things (that actually _worked_ in the real world) in the field at an “expert” level.

    Now, that sort of skill could be useful to a con man, so maybe he learned something about it along the way. It’s even possible that he did become something of an expert at it. But it’s nowhere near being a “given”, any more than its a given that your neurologist could detect subtle fetal abnormalities in a sonogram. And your chiropractor might well be able to con him about something like that, far outside his area of expertise.

    What Montgomery claimed to have for the feds was almost entirely math, that a sharp undergrad could have reduced to code once the algorithms were written down. What he actually produced doesn’t take a whole lot of computer skills, so you can’t infer how good he is at anything except suckering people from what he pulled off.

  110. avatar
    RanTalbott April 26, 2015 at 2:00 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I would not be surprised to learn that Zullo made those statements based solely on promises.

    He definitely didn’t.

    Dr. Conspiracy: It is confirmed by the coincidence of Zullo stopping all mention of the universe-shattering information about the time Montgomery’s background became public.

    And I’m pretty sure he didn’t do that, either. But not positive: I could be mistaken in the timing I remember.

    Right about the time Zullups started talking “universe-shattering”, they were also crowing that they had “debunked” the Xerox evidence because they had gotten “an NSA document” that described “removing metadata” from a forged document using a “Xerox machine”. It is, of course, possible to do something like that with physical documents on a photocopier: you could copy the forgery onto a different kind of paper, which would obscure/eliminate fingerprints and watermarks, and eliminate the ability to analyze the paper to see whether it was probably manufactured in the country of origin (or to narrow the search for the forger). It’s possible that the techno-illiterati at the Clueless Clown Posse misinterpreted a real document along those lines as applying to scans, but I suspect that Montgomery fabricated that “NSA document” for them to fit their fears about RC’s work.

    The part that I’m only _pretty_ sure about is that Zullo spoke on Free Dumb Friday about analyzing the PDF using some sort of secret technology in the autumn _after_ Lemons’ article. I remember commenting at the time that it sounded like the same sort of con Montgomery had run before. But maybe I was looking at a pre-article video, so I could be wrong about this part.

  111. avatar
    Rickey April 26, 2015 at 3:13 am #

    Fast Falcon:
    Is it your (all of you) opinion that Zullo was just fed information by the likes of Montgomery but not actually shown evidence, or even physically held it?

    Why would Zullo be so bold as to portray some “truth” without holding credible support?

    Zullo has never shown any interest in real evidence. Why would he start with Montgomery?

    Not that he would necessarily recognize real evidence if he saw it. Zullo’s experience in law enforcement consists of a couple of years with a small suburban police department in northern New Jersey decades ago.

  112. avatar
    Notorial Dissent April 26, 2015 at 4:52 am #

    There has been no evidence to date that Zullo would know what was evidence if it was presented to him on a silver platter. Zullo was/is an idiot and a gullible one at that as he has proven repeatedly. I think it also comes down to him being too lazy and too stupid to actually do any research himself as it seems he has made a habit of leaving it up to other people, to his detriment. The why would simply be because he didn’t know any better and it was what his master wanted to hear.

    Fast Falcon:
    Is it your (all of you) opinion that Zullo was just fed information by the likes of Montgomery but not actually shown evidence, or even physically held it?

    Why would Zullo be so bold as to portray some “truth” without holding credible support?

    Your hypothesis seems to be the explanation for the delay but it doesn’t consider many potential outcomes.

  113. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund April 26, 2015 at 9:57 am #

    The NSA document they were crowing about: https://www.nsa.gov/ia/_files/app/pdf_risks.pdf

  114. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 26, 2015 at 11:15 am #

    RanTalbott: The part that I’m only _pretty_ sure about is that Zullo spoke on Free Dumb Friday about analyzing the PDF using some sort of secret technology

    I remember someone on Gerbil Report talking as if he were privy to insider information about the CCP and mentioning technology that “Obots could only dream about” being available to Zullo.

  115. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 26, 2015 at 11:21 am #

    RanTalbott: What Montgomery claimed to have for the feds was almost entirely math, that a sharp undergrad could have reduced to code once the algorithms were written down. What he actually produced doesn’t take a whole lot of computer skills, so you can’t infer how good he is at anything except suckering people from what he pulled off.

    I think it also depends on how much time the marks had to check everything. An important part of many cons is to create (or abuse) a sense of urgency so the mark doesn’t have the time to validate everything.
    When you go to the Feds and tell them you have the technology to extract secret ISIS messages from TV feeds, they probably don’t go “OK, we will check your data and get back to you in 6 months” but rather “hey, great, let’s use this before another 9/11 is upon us”. Abusing paranoia would be one way to con even the technologically savvy government agencies – for a while.

  116. avatar
    Notorial Dissent April 26, 2015 at 12:09 pm #

    That’s why it is caused a con game.

    He conned people in the CIA who didn’t have a clue about what he was pretending to give them, I suspect it was truly a case of baffling them with bullshit, and he seems to have succeeded until the stories started to fall apart. I truly suspect that someone who was competent in either math or computer research would have laughed their asses off at what he was doing, but no one bothered to check with the people who’d actually know what he was doing, and it was something he was counting on for his scam to work.

    The same variation worked with the Shurf and Depty Bozo, and Defective Zullo, he promised them something they badly wanted and baffled them, taking no real effort in the process, with more bullshit and sold them another fantasy that they weren’t capable of really looking closely at, so he conned them until the wheels started to come off when it leaked out of the Shurf’s office to the newspaper.

    Ironically, the one real valid thing in all this is that this technique is one that is used by counter intelligence operations all the time to derail another nation’s intelligence gathering. Sell them something they desperately want and that turns out to be a complete fraud.

  117. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater April 26, 2015 at 1:47 pm #

    Fast Falcon: Is it your (all of you) opinion that Zullo was just fed information by the likes of Montgomery but not actually shown evidence, or even physically held it?

    Why would Zullo be so bold as to portray some “truth” without holding credible support?

    The same reason he always does. He claims to have evidence without ever holding it. Every claim he’s made has been bullshit. The man likes the sound of his own voice.

  118. avatar
    Northland10 April 26, 2015 at 7:32 pm #

    Fast Falcon: Why would Zullo be so bold as to portray some “truth” without holding credible support?

    2 words. Coding Manual. They lifted that from Daily Pen, I believe. Months earlier, at least, the Doc had already show the coding manual the article displayed was not the one they claimed. Zullo used the exact same graphic.

  119. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 26, 2015 at 9:40 pm #

    I showed the fake Daily Pen race code manual in my March 4, 2012 article:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/decoding-the-long-form-part-1

    and the true race code table on March 9:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/03/decoding-the-long-form-part-2/

    Zullo used the fake code table July 17.

    I don’t think that Zullo got the table from the Daily Pen, but rather that someone gave it to him, representing it as authentic.

    Northland10: 2 words. Coding Manual. They lifted that from Daily Pen, I believe. Months earlier, at least, the Doc had already show the coding manual the article displayed was not the one they claimed. Zullo used the exact same graphic.

  120. avatar
    BrianH April 26, 2015 at 9:55 pm #

    Fast Falcon:
    Is it your (all of you) opinion that Zullo was just fed information by the likes of Montgomery but not actually shown evidence, or even physically held it?

    Why would Zullo be so bold as to portray some “truth” without holding credible support?

    What I’m still wondering is if Montgomery gave (or promised) Zullo something related to Obama or things Birther-ish. Even had Montgomery delivered on the part about DOJ/Holder/Snow, that wouldn’t interest the Gallups audience. Granted, Zullo has shown he can create great hype out of nothing (e.g. the dozens of “VIP’s” who weren’t more than the faintest whiff of one). Though Montgomery throwing Zullo a bone would make some sense.

  121. avatar
    RanTalbott April 27, 2015 at 1:34 am #

    BrianH: What I’m still wondering is if Montgomery gave (or promised) Zullo something related to Obama or things Birther-ish.

    As mentioned earlier, I think it’s virtually certain that Montgomery fabricated the “NSA document”, and did something to convince them that they were seeing an analysis of the PDF by “secret new technology”. One _guess_ would be that he doctored the PDF so that, when run through his program, some “s3kr1t message from the forger” like “Turn me on, Kenyan man” or “Haha! Fooled ya!” appeared in the security paper.

    If I were running a l33t h4x0r con, I’d probably also promise I could get him some juicy info about the “DARPA IP addresses”. Like, say, the usernames of the people logged on to them at the time. Which would really get Zullo salivating. But that’s just another guess.

  122. avatar
    RanTalbott April 27, 2015 at 1:36 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I don’t think that Zullo got the table from the Daily Pen, but rather that someone gave it to him, representing it as authentic.

    Wasn’t there a rumor that he got it from Corsi, and that caused their falling-out?

  123. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy April 27, 2015 at 2:04 am #

    I don’t have a good source to say that he did, but a “Corsi associate” was the one that phoned the bogus confirmation of it.

    RanTalbott: Wasn’t there a rumor that he got it from Corsi, and that caused their falling-out?

  124. avatar
    bgansel9 April 27, 2015 at 12:39 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in): Then again, Zullo also claimed he had evidence that “would convince even the greatest skeptic” (which he never released), so he might just be on the “far out” end of habitual exaggeration.

    Well, I could be wrong (but I don’t think I am) when I say that I believe Zullo’s exaggerations directly correlate to his relationship with the Donate button.

  125. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) April 28, 2015 at 4:51 am #

    bgansel9: I believe Zullo’s exaggerations directly correlate to his relationship with the Donate button

    Which means his “universe-shattering evidence that would convince even the greatest skeptic” was his endgame, knowing it was his last chance to milk the dry well. For one, because he hasn’t followed up with anything that would make people donate; and also because it’s nigh-impossible to find anything to top that promise off.
    Maybe if he said he has something that would destroy the entire NWO (and not just the black guy in the White House).

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: He claims to have evidence without ever holding it.

    And some birthers, in their universe-shattering cognitive dissonance, have even defended that while totally realizing he may have nothing – with the good old “he claims to have more than he does so conspirators might be lured into confessing” stuff they probably got from their 80’s TV shows.

  126. avatar
    Wrecking ball April 29, 2015 at 12:30 am #

    RanTalbott: some “s3kr1t message from the forger” …

    D-R-I-N-K-Y-O-U-R-O-V-A-L-T-……..