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Arpaio: absolutely sure document is forged

In an interview with CNN’s Jake Tapper today, Joe Arpaio said he was absolutely sure that Obama’s birth certificate is forged. I’m absolutely sure that he’s wrong. H/t to Mediaite.

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74 Responses to Arpaio: absolutely sure document is forged

  1. avatar
    wrecking ball July 23, 2015 at 11:43 pm #

    he admits his technical knowledge doesn’t exceed a typewriter but….. he knows it’s a fake.

  2. avatar
    Maverick July 24, 2015 at 12:18 am #

    It is clear that Arpaio’s, and the other so called law-enforcement professionals including Zullo and Gallups, have no clue about even the most basic legal concepts.

    In the simplest terms, forgery is the false making or altering of an item, in this case a document.

    To prove a forgery, you would call a witness (usually the custodian of records) to testify that the document is not authentic, meaning it is not what it appears to be.

    Here, the state of Hawaii has stated unequivocally that the birth certificate is authentic. Furthermore, the birth certificate is certified, so under the rules of evidence in most jurisdictions it would be admissible as an authentic document even without testimony.

    Claims by Arpaio, Zullo, Gallups, and others that the birth certificate is a forgery are just a con job for money, fame or both.

    All the pseudo technical BS is just to convince the fools and marks to play along.

    I left out some details, mostly about the admissibility of copies, etc. but that’s about it — plain and simple.

    The only question left for Arpaio to answer is whether he is a fool or fraud.

    I always thought Arpaio was a fraud, but after reading some of the documents in the Melendres case he may be just a stupid fool. And conveniently for him stupidity might be a defense to the contempt charge.

  3. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 24, 2015 at 12:20 am #

    Do we have to pick just one?

    Maverick: The only question left for Arpaio’s to answer is whether he is a fool or fraud.

  4. avatar
    Pete July 24, 2015 at 1:37 am #

    Arpaio’s claim that he has a Smith Corona typewriter, and doesn’t own a computer, is either an indication of his cluelessness and ignorance that’s so extreme as to approach criminal stupidity, or it’s cover for what he knows is a fraudulent claim.

  5. avatar
    Pete July 24, 2015 at 1:38 am #

    Or, as Dr. Conspiracy has implied, both.

  6. avatar
    bob July 24, 2015 at 2:07 am #

    I’m also with both: Arpaio essentially parroted Zullo’s line that they investigating a forgery, that is, the digital image on the White House’s site — and not per se Obama’s birthplace. In their tiny minds, it is somehow possible that Obama was born in Hawaii, the information contained in the digital image is correct, yet the digital image itself is a forgery.

    (To engage in birtherthink, a possible explantion for such convolution would be if the digital image omitted something, for example, Obama’s alleged adopted.)

  7. avatar
    RanTalbott July 24, 2015 at 7:03 am #

    bob: Arpaio essentially parroted Zullo’s line that they investigating a forgery, that is, the digital image on the White House’s site

    Not quite: I’ve never heard Arpaio specifically say what the “forged government document” is. E.g., whether it’s the PDF or the paper certified copy. And I’ve been trying to catch him in getting specific.

    Zullo is fond of claiming that the paper is a printout of the PDF, and that the PDF is a “forgery” (thus demonstrating abysmal ignorance and incompetence). Weirdly, he also likes to claim that the PDF isn’t a “document” at all (even a blind pig occasional finds an acorn).

    Now, does Arpaio not echo the “PDF is forged” claim because he actually does know what a “document” is? Or is he avoiding getting specific because his frequent claims that he’s “relying on my people because I don’t know computers” laying the groundwork for not getting run over with Zullo when he throws him under the bus (“Gee, I had no idea my people were feeding me incompetent nonsense, ‘cuz I’m just a typewriter kinda guy”)?

  8. avatar
    DaveH July 24, 2015 at 7:11 am #

    If I scan a $100 bill and put it on the internet, the birthers can download it, print it and use it to buy birther toys.

    In their small minds an image posted on the internet is the same as the item that was originally scanned.

  9. avatar
    Reality Check July 24, 2015 at 7:56 am #

    It sure would be nice if one of these TV airheads actually knew one tenth of what we knew about the scam that Arpaio and Zullo are running. For example when Arapio said no other experts other than his had ever examined anything Tapper could have asked who were Arapio’s experts and how did they qualify as experts. Then he could ask about the real experts that have looked at the PDF like Neal Krawetz and the three guys WND hired who all said there was no evidence that anything was a forgery.

  10. avatar
    Jim July 24, 2015 at 8:07 am #

    I think Judge Snow might find it interesting that the investigation is ongoing, especially considering it was also part of the investigation into Judge Snow. 😀

  11. avatar
    Arthur July 24, 2015 at 8:09 am #

    Reality Check: It sure would be nice if one of these TV airheads actually knew one tenth of what we knew about the scam that Arpaio and Zullo are running.

    True enough. Now consider how many times news people interview politicians without having the expertise to properly question or evaluate what’s being said, and you get a sense of how easily misinformation is spread.

  12. avatar
    alg July 24, 2015 at 8:52 am #

    Reality Check:
    It sure would be nice if one of these TV airheads actually knew one tenth of what we knew about the scam that Arpaio and Zullo are running. For example when Arapio said no other experts other than his had ever examined anything Tapper could have asked who were Arapio’s experts and how did they qualify as experts. Then he could ask about the real experts that have looked at the PDF like Neal Krawetz and the three guys WND hired who all said there was no evidence that anything was a forgery.

    Agreed. In addition to the fact that real experts have examined and debunked Arpaio’s claims, we also have the two certified verifications from the State of Hawaii and the letter from the MC Prosecutor stating that Arpaio’s claims are speculation and declining to investigate them. It would be nice if reporters probing Arpaio on the birth certificate knew enough to confront Arpaio on these points.

  13. avatar
    Reality Check July 24, 2015 at 8:52 am #

    That’s why it is such a pleasure to watch a true journalist like Rachael Maddow when they do the job right.

    Arthur: True enough. Now consider how many times news people interview politicians without having the expertise to properly question or evaluate what’s being said, and you get a sense of how easily misinformation is spread.

  14. avatar
    donna July 24, 2015 at 8:59 am #

    Reality Check: That’s why it is such a pleasure to watch a true journalist when they do their job like Rachael Maddow.

    Last night, Rachel had a segment on the birther movement:

    President Obama visits Kenya without inciting birther freakout

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/obama-visits-kenya-without-fuss-from-birthers-490608195667

    Regarding the media,

    I agree with you, however, the media is scraping for ratings and politician interviews. If they question politicians too much, the politicians won’t return which leaves US, the viewers/readers, screaming.

    Our only recourse is to troll for real news and not opinions.

    Sheriff Arpaio spends up to $1 million to smear judge, fails miserably

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/23/1404165/-Sheriff-Arpaio-spends-up-to-1-million-to-smear-judge-fails-miserably

  15. avatar
    Reality Check July 24, 2015 at 9:02 am #

    True, however he would just clam up and play stupid like he did yesterday but it would be fun to watch him get badgered with the facts for which he has no answer. It also would have been nice to bring up the Dennis Montgomery mess too. Tapper did mention “his contractors” but I am not sure whom he was talking about.

    alg: It would be nice if reporters probing Arpaio on the birth certificate knew enough to confront Arpaio on these points.

  16. avatar
    Notorial Dissent July 24, 2015 at 9:09 am #

    Part I think, of why so many of these types of politicians survive from year to year. Arpaio seems to have made a career out of it.

    Arthur: True enough. Now consider how many times news people interview politicianswithout having the expertise to properly question or evaluate what’s being said, and you get a sense of how easily misinformation is spread.

  17. avatar
    RanTalbott July 24, 2015 at 9:46 am #

    DaveH: If I scan a $100 bill and put it on the internet, the birthers can download it, print it and use it to buy birther toys.

    Be sure to mark it “TRUMP 2016” before you upload it 😉

  18. avatar
    john July 24, 2015 at 10:26 am #

    alg: Agreed.In addition to the fact that real experts have examined and debunked Arpaio’s claims, we also have the two certified verifications from the State of Hawaii and the letter from the MC Prosecutor stating that Arpaio’s claims are speculation and declining to investigate them.It would be nice if reporters probing Arpaio on the birth certificate knew enough to confront Arpaio on these points.

    The Hawaii Verifications about the Birth Certificate useless. Because Alvin Onaka’s Stamp is on the Obama’s BC, Onaka has no choice and is compelled under the law to state that the BC is valid. Onaka has no choice, the BC has his Stamp on it. In Other words, any verification containing Alvin Onaka’s signature is self-interested authorization and therefore completely useless. In Fact if Onaka were to state the BC is not valid, Onaka would be in big big trouble. Because Obama’s BC contains the Onaka Stamp, Onaka is bound by the law and has no choice but to state for the record that Obama’s BC is legit. He cannot deny it. A Hawaii Verification with someone other than Alvin Onaka must be used to give the verification any credibility.

  19. avatar
    truxton spangler July 24, 2015 at 10:28 am #

    bobIn their tiny minds, it is somehow possible that Obama was born in Hawaii, the information contained in the digitalimage is correct, yet the digital image itself is a forgery.

    I’ve seen this theory in some rotten corners of the birthersphere – that he WAS born in Hawaii but that the BC is still a fake. Why? They think he’s hiding his “real” parentage, and that his father is Frank Marshall Davis.

  20. avatar
    john July 24, 2015 at 11:03 am #

    RanTalbott: Be sure to mark it “TRUMP 2016″ before you upload it

    Yes, I am marking money bills far and wide with the Mark of Trump – My Trump Bucks. Trump is one awesome dude. The GOP are idiots not to be making him the nominnee instantly. He would steam roll Hillary Clinton. I can’t wait to see him in the debate in 2 weeks. Hopefully, he will be fantastic as he takes apart each other candidate piece by piece. Remember Trump’s Truism – Politicians will never ever be able to fix the problems in the country. We need America’s Top Business man leading this country not more politicians

  21. avatar
    Curious George July 24, 2015 at 11:04 am #

    John:

    “The Hawaii Verifications about the Birth Certificate useless. Because Alvin Onaka’s Stamp is on the Obama’s BC, Onaka has no choice and is compelled under the law to state that the BC is valid. Onaka has no choice, the BC has his Stamp on it. In Other words, any verification containing Alvin Onaka’s signature is self-interested authorization and therefore completely useless. In Fact if Onaka were to state the BC is not valid, Onaka would be in big big trouble. Because Obama’s BC contains the Onaka Stamp, Onaka is bound by the law and has no choice but to state for the record that Obama’s BC is legit. He cannot deny it. A Hawaii Verification with someone other than Alvin Onaka must be used to give the verification any credibility.”

    John, I see that you’re once again using your “law degree” that you obtained mailing in your 25 cents with the Cheerios box-top. The Hawaii Verification worked in Arizona and it worked in court to verify Obama’s birth information. What does everyone else seem to know that you don’t?

  22. avatar
    Lupin July 24, 2015 at 11:11 am #

    john: The Hawaii Verifications about the Birth Certificate useless.Because Alvin Onaka’sStamp is on the Obama’s BC, Onaka has no choice and is compelled under the law to state that the BC is valid.Onaka has no choice, the BC has his Stamp on it.In Other words, any verification containing Alvin Onaka’s signature is self-interested authorization and therefore completely useless.In Fact if Onaka were to state the BC is not valid, Onaka would be in big big trouble.Because Obama’s BC contains the Onaka Stamp, Onaka is bound by the law and has no choice but to state for the record that Obama’s BC is legit.He cannot deny it.A Hawaii Verification with someone other than Alvin Onaka must be used to give the verification any credibility.

    This is ridiculous; you’re merely rehashing tired, old lies.

    FactCheck.org staffers have seen, examined and photographed the birth certificate & concluded that it met all of the requirements from the State Department.

    Also not just Onaka but also Fukino verified that the HI health department holds Obama’s original BC.

    Even your Rump is sort backing away from this.

  23. avatar
    roadburner July 24, 2015 at 11:17 am #

    john: The Hawaii Verifications about the Birth Certificate useless.Because Alvin Onaka’sStamp is on the Obama’s BC, Onaka has no choice and is compelled under the law to state that the BC is valid.Onaka has no choice, the BC has his Stamp on it.In Other words, any verification containing Alvin Onaka’s signature is self-interested authorization and therefore completely useless.In Fact if Onaka were to state the BC is not valid, Onaka would be in big big trouble.Because Obama’s BC contains the Onaka Stamp, Onaka is bound by the law and has no choice but to state for the record that Obama’s BC is legit.He cannot deny it.A Hawaii Verification with someone other than Alvin Onaka must be used to give the verification any credibility.

    tell me john, have you considered moving up to `professional stupid’?

    alvin onaka is the state registrar, and as such his signature will appear on documents and verifications of said documents BECAUSE THAT’S HIS JOB.

    there is no other state registrar to sign and verify, and if someone was to do so in his stead, you’d be the first to go “AHA!!!!” and claim it wasn’t valid because it wasn’t the state registrar’s signature.

    i sometimes wonder if the cartoon network is too complicated for you.

  24. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 24, 2015 at 11:21 am #

    Of course, this particular nuttification is disproven by the newspaper announcements, that say “Obama” and not “Davis.” The announcements came from Health Department birth registrations.

    truxton spangler: They think he’s hiding his “real” parentage, and that his father is Frank Marshall Davis.

  25. avatar
    john July 24, 2015 at 11:25 am #

    roadburner: tell me john, have you considered moving up to `professional stupid’?

    alvin onaka is the state registrar, and as such his signature will appear on documents and verifications of said documents BECAUSE THAT’S HIS JOB.

    there is no other state registrar to sign and verify, and if someone was to do so in his stead, you’d be the first to go “AHA!!!!” and claim it wasn’t valid because it wasn’t the state registrar’s signature.

    i sometimes wonder if the cartoon network is too complicated for you.

    exactly right, that why the issuing authority is completely corrupt. Hawaii can’t say it’s legit because to fact that it is forged legit and Hawaii can’t deny that. It’s a circular argument. Hawaii can’t use someone else because like you said, he or she is not the state register. In essense, you have a corrupt issuing authority. Only an independent authority seperate from Hawaii can confirm the BC.

  26. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 24, 2015 at 11:25 am #

    So you’re saying that no one could testify that their signature on a document is their own because they signed it?

    All Onaka says by signing the certificate is that it is a true copy of what’s on file. It is a simple ministerial task.

    john: Onaka has no choice, the BC has his Stamp on it. In Other words, any verification containing Alvin Onaka’s signature is self-interested authorization and therefore completely useless.

  27. avatar
    bob July 24, 2015 at 11:36 am #

    john: exactly right, that why the issuing authority is completely corrupt.Hawaii can’t say it’s legit because to fact that it is forged legit and Hawaii can’t deny that.It’s a circular argument.Hawaii can’t use someone else because like you said, he or she is not the state register.In essense, you have a corrupt issuing authority.Only an independent authority seperate from Hawaii can confirm the BC.

    Yup: Professional-level stupidity: There’s no evidence that the State of Hawaii or anyone else did anything improper with regard to President Obama’s birth certificate. The “corruption” exists only in the tiny brains of birthers.

    That you desire independent confirmation is entirely your problem, as the State of Hawaii’s statement on the matter can and has been accepted as definitive in courts and other governmental agencies — as required by the U.S. Constitution and federal law.

  28. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 24, 2015 at 11:42 am #

    Of course there is. Given that Obama was born in Kenya, there is almost certainly something awry with his birth certificate. And further, since the birth certificate is a forgery, then anyone who argues that it is a forgery is a de facto expert. Further, given that Obama lied about his birthplace, he has also lied about everything else, and all courts and news media are afraid of him, or corrupt. It all hangs together quite logically.

    In case you have a problem with that first premise, it is easily demonstrated: Because Obama is not eligible to be president, he must have been born outside the United States.

    bob: There’s no evidence that the State of Hawaii or anyone else did anything improper with regard to President Obama’s birth certificate.

  29. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 24, 2015 at 11:45 am #

    john: exactly right, that why the issuing authority is completely corrupt. Hawaii can’t say it’s legit because to fact that it is forged legit and Hawaii can’t deny that. It’s a circular argument. Hawaii can’t use someone else because like you said, he or she is not the state register. In essense, you have a corrupt issuing authority. Only an independent authority seperate from Hawaii can confirm the BC.

    They did say it was legit. How many different ways do they have to say it before your tiny brain can comprehend? It’s not forged. There’s no proof to support it. How can an independent authority confirm a BC they didn’t actually issue?

  30. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 24, 2015 at 11:47 am #

    john: The Hawaii Verifications about the Birth Certificate useless. Because Alvin Onaka’s Stamp is on the Obama’s BC, Onaka has no choice and is compelled under the law to state that the BC is valid. Onaka has no choice, the BC has his Stamp on it. In Other words, any verification containing Alvin Onaka’s signature is self-interested authorization and therefore completely useless. In Fact if Onaka were to state the BC is not valid, Onaka would be in big big trouble. Because Obama’s BC contains the Onaka Stamp, Onaka is bound by the law and has no choice but to state for the record that Obama’s BC is legit. He cannot deny it. A Hawaii Verification with someone other than Alvin Onaka must be used to give the verification any credibility.

    That’s stupid even for you. What gives Onaka no other choice? Does the law state that the registrar has to confirm that the document matches the original even if it doesn’t? How could Onaka be in trouble if it’s not his signature he could deny it. The problem is that it’s perfectly legit and you can’t handle that.

  31. avatar
    john July 24, 2015 at 11:51 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    So you’re saying that no one could testify that their signature on a document is their own because they signed it?

    All Onaka says by signing the certificate is that it is a true copy of what’s on file. It is a simple ministerial task.

    That’s right Doc. Onaka can only state the BC is legit. He has no other choice. Why? Because Onaka’s stamp is on it. If Onaka denied the BC in any way, Onaka would be in big big trouble because you have ask what’s Onaka’s Stamp doing on a BC that was never issued. Onaka would essentially be confirming his own fraud.

  32. avatar
    bob July 24, 2015 at 11:55 am #

    john: That’s right Doc.Onaka can only state the BC is legit.He has no other choice.Why?Because Onaka’s stamp is on it.If Onaka denied the BC in any way, Onaka would be in big big trouble because you have ask what’s Onaka’s Stamp doing on a BC that was never issued.Onaka would essentially be confirming his own fraud.

    Professional-level stupidity: there’s no evidence of fraud or irregularity regarding President Obama’s birth certificate.

  33. avatar
    Reality Check July 24, 2015 at 12:00 pm #

    I thought the Birther’s claim was that it was all a computer generated forgery? Why would Onaka be in trouble if someone had generated a copy of his stamp? We know the stamp and seal are real though because we have seen them and Hawaii says they are. Case closed.

    john: If Onaka denied the BC in any way, Onaka would be in big big trouble because you have ask what’s Onaka’s Stamp doing on a BC that was never issued.

  34. avatar
    bob July 24, 2015 at 12:08 pm #

    Reality Check:
    I thought the Birther’s claim was that it was all a computer generated forgery? Why would Onaka be in trouble if someone had generated a copy of his stamp?

    If some mythical forger forged Onaka’s signature, Onaka would say, “that’s not my signature; someone else forged it.”

    That Onaka has never that said leads john to conclude that Onaka participated in the forgery. Rather than the obvious conclusion: that there is no forgery.

  35. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 24, 2015 at 12:23 pm #

    john: That’s right Doc. Onaka can only state the BC is legit. He has no other choice. Why? Because Onaka’s stamp is on it. If Onaka denied the BC in any way, Onaka would be in big big trouble because you have ask what’s Onaka’s Stamp doing on a BC that was never issued. Onaka would essentially be confirming his own fraud.

    That’s idiotic even for you.

  36. avatar
    Crustacean July 24, 2015 at 12:27 pm #

    Your comment made me think of Donald Trump. I’ve seen a few TV interviews of him, and I just shake my head – when I’m not shouting at the interviewer to call him on his BS. It’s like, Trump is shooting wildly from the hip, missing the target by a mile, the bullets ricocheting everywhere, and the interviewer just says, “You say you are the best shooter in all the land, but wow, those sure are some shiny pistols! How much did those babies cost?”

    Arthur: True enough. Now consider how many times news people interview politicians without having the expertise to properly question or evaluate what’s being said, and you get a sense of how easily misinformation is spread.

  37. avatar
    truxton spangler July 24, 2015 at 2:01 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The announcements came from Health Department birth registrations.

    Well, that fact should demolish any and all claims of a foreign birth as well, and yet, here we are. 🙂

  38. avatar
    roadburner July 24, 2015 at 2:03 pm #

    Reality Check:
    I thought the Birther’s claim was that it was all a computer generated forgery? Why would Onaka be in trouble if someone had generated a copy of his stamp? We know the stamp and seal are real though because we have seen them and Hawaii says they are. Case closed.

    but……but……but…..BENGHAZI!

  39. avatar
    Rickey July 24, 2015 at 3:31 pm #

    john: .Remember Trump’s Truism – Politicians will never ever be able to fix the problems in the country.We need America’s Top Business man leading this country not more politicians

    Trump companies have filed for bankruptcy four times. I didn’t realize that stiffing creditors by filing for bankruptcy multiple times is a qualification for the title of “Best Businessman.”

  40. avatar
    Rickey July 24, 2015 at 3:40 pm #

    bob: Yup: Professional-level stupidity: There’s no evidence that the State of Hawaii or anyone else did anything improper with regard to President Obama’s birth certificate. The “corruption” exists only in the tiny brains of birthers.

    We’re still waiting for John to explain why he didn’t volunteer for military service after 9/11.

    Maybe he was rejected because of brain spurs.

  41. avatar
    Kate July 24, 2015 at 4:13 pm #

    john: Yes, I am marking money bills far and wide with the Mark of Trump – My Trump Bucks.Trump is one awesome dude.The GOP are idiots not to be making him the nominnee instantly.He would steam roll Hillary Clinton.I can’t wait to see him in the debate in 2 weeks.Hopefully, he will be fantastic as he takes apart each other candidate piece by piece.Remember Trump’s Truism – Politicians will never ever be able to fix the problems in the country.We need America’s Top Business man leading this country not more politicians

    So, the Constitution and the election laws in our country are no longer of any importance to you because YOU have found a candidate that you like? Typical birthed nonsense and hypocrisy. America’s Top Business man? What has he done that qualifies him for that title, file for bankruptcy several times? I thought the GOP liked those that pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps? Or did Trump’s Gucci bootstraps from the 70’s qualify? Anyone who inherited the amount of money that Trump did, would have to be stupid if they didn’t increase their wealth. As several top financial analysts in the country said, Trump’s inheritance, invested wisely could easily have yielded $200 Billion. What happened with Donald’s analysts or did he think he knew more than everyone else? It’s likely the latter reason as he still exhibits that know-it-all concept every day.

    BTW, Hillary is beating Trump by 16 points in the polls and 59% of all GOP will not vote for him. Say goodbye, Donald.

  42. avatar
    Pete July 24, 2015 at 5:27 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Of course there is. Given that Obama was born in Kenya, there is almost certainly something awry with his birth certificate. And further, since the birth certificate is a forgery, then anyone who argues that it is a forgery is a de facto expert. Further, given that Obama lied about his birthplace, he has also lied about everything else, and all courts and news media are afraid of him, or corrupt. It all hangs together quite logically.

    In case you have a problem with that first premise, it is easily demonstrated: Because Obama is not eligible to be president, he must have been born outside the United States.

    You missed your calling. It all makes so much sense when you explain it so simply like that.

    Birtherism is true because, well, because it’s true.

  43. avatar
    alg July 24, 2015 at 6:04 pm #

    john: The Hawaii Verifications about the Birth Certificate useless.Because Alvin Onaka’sStamp is on the Obama’s BC, Onaka has no choice and is compelled under the law to state that the BC is valid.Onaka has no choice, the BC has his Stamp on it.In Other words, any verification containing Alvin Onaka’s signature is self-interested authorization and therefore completely useless.In Fact if Onaka were to state the BC is not valid, Onaka would be in big big trouble.Because Obama’s BC contains the Onaka Stamp, Onaka is bound by the law and has no choice but to state for the record that Obama’s BC is legit.He cannot deny it.A Hawaii Verification with someone other than Alvin Onaka must be used to give the verification any credibility.

    I can’t tell you how incredibly dumb and illogical that sounds John. If the LFBC posted on the President’s website forged Onaka’s stamped certification on it, all Onaka would have to do is refuse to issue a certified verification and state that his stamp was forged on the document. If he had actually done that Obama would have been impeached and removed from office a long time ago. Instead what Onaka did was verify that the LFBC is authentic and accurate…not just once but actually three separate times.

    Arpaio can whistle Dixie all he wants, but the only party with standing to assert that the President’s LFBC is a forgery is the State of Hawaii. Instead they have stated exactly the opposite. That ends the story and Arpaio’s credibility – at least whatever was left of it.

  44. avatar
    Matt July 24, 2015 at 7:02 pm #

    john: .Only an independent authority seperate from Hawaii can confirm the BC.

    And who might that be, exactly? Name one person or office separate from Hawaii with the legal authority to validate or invalidate a Hawaii vital statistics document. Not even a congressman or federal judge may do that. Enumerated powers and limited jurisdiction, remember? States rights?

  45. avatar
    Matt July 24, 2015 at 7:05 pm #

    john: We need America’s Top Business man leading this country not more politicians

    There is a word for elected officials in this country. They are called politicians.

  46. avatar
    Keith July 24, 2015 at 8:12 pm #

    Rickey: Trump companies have filed for bankruptcy four times. I didn’t realize that stiffing creditors by filing for bankruptcy multiple times is a qualification for the title of “Best Businessman.”

    He can obviously bring more experience dealing with the debt crisis than anyone else.

  47. avatar
    Reality Check July 24, 2015 at 8:15 pm #

    There was an emergency hearing today in the Melendres case. Apparently the MCSO refused to cough up the 50 hard drives and some other information to the monitors. Judge Snow is sending the federal marshals over to take possession. Here is the order:

    The Court held a hearing with the parties on July 24, 2015. Defendants are hereby ordered to turn over all items of evidence associated with DR 14-007250, including hard drives, documents, and/or any other and materials, to the custody of the United States Marshals Service by the end of the day today, July 24, 2015. The Marshals shall store this evidence in a secure location and make it available, upon request and under secure conditions, to the parties and to the United States Government for copying pursuant to the Court’s previous orders. Defendants are further ordered to produce to the Marshals the 1,459 identifications that lack an associated DR number.
    IT IS SO ORDERED.
    Dated this 24th day of July, 2015

  48. avatar
    Matt July 24, 2015 at 9:40 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Here is the order:

    To paraphrase a commenter on the Fogbow: Holy s**t!!

  49. avatar
    Joey July 24, 2015 at 10:06 pm #

    John says the Hawaii Verifications are “useless.” Yet they have been successfully USED by Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett, Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, U.S. District Court Judge for the Southern District of Mississippi Henry T. Wilcox in the Mississippi eligibility challenge: “Taitz, et al v Mississippi Democratic Party Executive Committee, Barack Obama, Obama For America, Nancy Pelosi, Mississippi Secretary of State Delbert Hosemann, Alvin Onaka, Loretta Fuddy and John Does,” and by the Justices of the Supreme Court of Alabama in the Alabama eligibility challenge: McInnish v Chapman.
    There is no instance in which a Certified Letter of Verification from the Hawaii Registrar was deemed to be useless because his certification stamp is also on the birth certificate.

  50. avatar
    Notorial Dissent July 24, 2015 at 11:41 pm #

    John, you really are an idiot’s idiot, but then we already knew that, you just keep verifying it for us.

    Onaka’s signature on that BC means that he is certifying that it is a true and correct copy of the document/record the HI vital stats dept has in their keeping on file. Nothing more nothing less. He has also certified that the information appearing on the White House website is matches the information they have on file, as he has also done officially for several state requests. That is what a record certification of a record is you moron.

    By law that document was created from records in the HI dept of vital stats custody, and is presumed and declared to be legal and valid and correct for all legal purposes, and therefore cannot be anything but an official legal record.

  51. avatar
    Curious George July 25, 2015 at 2:47 am #

    Judge Snow today ordered six U.S. Marshals to seize evidence from Sheriff Arpaio’s evidence room to prevent the destruction of 1400 to 1500 identity cards and 50 hard drives apparently obtained by the MCSO from confidential informant Dennis Montgomery and the Seattle operation. More bad news for Joe!

  52. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG July 25, 2015 at 2:53 am #

    Reality Check:
    There was an emergency hearing today in the Melendres case. Apparently the MCSO refused to cough up the 50 hard drives and some other information to the monitors. Judge Snow is sending the federal marshals over to take possession. Here is the order:

    Quick Shurfjoke! Point your finger and look all surly! That protects you from everything! LOL!

  53. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 25, 2015 at 10:19 am #

    john: Only an independent authority seperate from Hawaii can confirm the BC.

    Who would be acceptable to you, john?

  54. avatar
    Punchmaster via Mobile July 25, 2015 at 11:20 am #

    john: exactly right, that why the issuing authority is completely corrupt.Hawaii can’t say it’s legit because to fact that it is forged legit and Hawaii can’t deny that.It’s a circular argument.Hawaii can’t use someone else because like you said, he or she is not the state register.In essense, you have a corrupt issuing authority.Only an independent authority seperate from Hawaii can confirm the BC.

    Full Faith and Credit Clause, john. It’s in the Constitution. Hawaii’s word is good enough for the other 49 states.

  55. avatar
    Dave B. July 25, 2015 at 4:27 pm #

    With this kind of support, what could possibly stand in the way of the rump steamroller?

    john: TrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTrumpTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPARGLEBARGLEHOWWWWWWL

  56. avatar
    CarlOrcas July 25, 2015 at 7:25 pm #

    john: The GOP are idiots not to be making him the nominnee instantly. He would steam roll Hillary Clinton.

    Democrats across the fruited plain are lighting candles hoping your wish comes true. From USA Today:

    The survey of 1,000 adults, taken by landline and cellphone Thursday through Sunday, has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. The sample of 349 likely Republican primary and caucus voters has an error margin of +/-5.25 points.

    Trump’s strengths and his weaknesses are on display.

    While he leads the GOP field, he fares the worst of seven hopefuls in hypothetical head-to-heads against former secretary of State Hillary Clinton, the leading Democratic nominee. Bush, the strongest candidate against Clinton, lags by four points nationwide, 46%-42%. Trump trails by 17 points, 51%-34%.

    That’s a wider margin than Florida Sen. Marco Rubio (down 6 points), former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee (8 points), Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (9 points), Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul (10 points) and retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson (13 points).

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/07/14/usa-today-suffolk-poll-republicans-donald-trump/30102255/

  57. avatar
    faceman July 26, 2015 at 7:52 am #

    John, how does the whole ‘forged birth certificate’ fit in with the ‘renounced his citizenship as a child and had to naturalize in 1983 (with Arnold)’ schtick you were doing a while back?

  58. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund July 27, 2015 at 12:57 pm #

    faceman:
    John, how does the whole ‘forged birth certificate’ fit in with the ‘renounced his citizenship as a child and had to naturalize in 1983 (with Arnold)’ schtick you were doing a while back?

    To be fair, I think that was just Sven. I don’t recall john getting much involved with that.

  59. avatar
    Thomas Brown July 27, 2015 at 3:43 pm #

    Matt: There is a word for elected officials in this country.They are called politicians.

    And if, God forbid, Trump was elected to any office, he would then be a politician. In fact, one could argue that he has been a politician since announcing his candidacy.

    But as for Trump vs. Clinton in the election?

    Say you’re on a plane coming in for a landing. The pilot gasps and falls dead of a heart attack.

    Behind him are two passengers who are pilots. One is a woman who has hundreds of hours flying a similar plane, and passive training on exactly that aircraft. She has the reputation of being unexciting but level-headed and competent.

    Beside her is a man who has only flown smaller and much different types of planes, who has walked away unscathed from crashes that killed and maimed other people with him at the controls. But he was rich enough to just buy another plane, and so doesn’t give a rat’s ass if he crashes another one. Which he did, over and over. He has a reputation of being reckless and flamboyant, and not caring about facts.

    Which one should land the damn plane?

    john? Beuller?

  60. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 27, 2015 at 7:17 pm #

    Thomas Brown:
    Which one should land the damn plane?

    Donald Trump should, because businessman.

  61. avatar
    nbc July 28, 2015 at 12:56 am #

    He has yet to explain how the artifacts argued to be evidence of a forgery were tracked back to a Xerox workflow.

    Not that it matters… But it is fascinating how poorly they have dealt with said discovery. Nothing has happened since then to move the issue of ‘forgery’ forward, no new evidence was introduced, nothing…
    Even John is back making irrelevant claims.

    It’s been fun exposing the ignorance. Time to move on.

  62. avatar
    RanTalbott July 28, 2015 at 3:41 am #

    nbc: He has yet to explain how the artifacts argued to be evidence of a forgery were tracked back to a Xerox workflow.

    He has people to do that for him.

    Of course, they haven’t, either.

    I do hope one of their victims sues them for fraud, or files a criminal complaint. We know from the unsealed emails that Zullo paid Monty 10 Gs for software that would find something incriminating in the PDF, but only because Zullo happened to be involved in both branches of the Seattle Operation, and mentioned it in an email about the “Git the Judge” branch. I really want to see the “NSA Document”, because it’s bound to be a hoot, but I don’t think Snow will pursue it, because it’s not relevant to his case.

  63. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund July 28, 2015 at 9:08 am #

    RanTalbott: He has people to do that for him.

    Of course, they haven’t, either.

    I do hope one of their victims sues them for fraud, or files a criminal complaint. We know from the unsealed emails that Zullo paid Monty 10 Gs for software that would find something incriminating in the PDF, but only because Zullo happened to be involved in both branches of the Seattle Operation, and mentioned it in an email about the “Git the Judge” branch. I really want to see the “NSA Document”, because it’s bound to be a hoot, but I don’t think Snow will pursue it, because it’s not relevant to his case.

    Actually, I think the “NSA Document” is very relevant to the case. I am of the firm belief that the “NSA Document” was what Monkey Boy used to lure in the MCSO in the first place. Don’t be surprised if it ends up as part of the evidence.

    Which is not to say that I guarantee it will come to light, merely that I think it had a central enough role in setting up the scam that it might be revealed.

  64. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 28, 2015 at 9:19 am #

    nbc:
    He has yet to explain how the artifacts argued to be evidence of a forgery were tracked back to a Xerox workflow.

    Not that it matters… But it is fascinating how poorly they have dealt with said discovery. Nothing has happened since then to move the issue of ‘forgery’ forward, no new evidence was introduced, nothing…
    Even John is back making irrelevant claims.

    It’s been fun exposing the ignorance. Time to move on.

    The xerox workflow is probably what made them claim they have to start over and not use the old claims anymore. I’d say when Zullo got caught on the race codes that was the moment they stopped making new claims and started with the whole “We have evidence but we can’t tell you” claims. They stopped presenting anything they claimed to have because every time they said anything they ended up embarrassed.

  65. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 28, 2015 at 10:09 am #

    There was some discussion a while back about an NSA document that said in essence that if you want to scrub metadata from an electronic document, print it out and scan it back in.

    W. Kevin Vicklund: Actually, I think the “NSA Document” is very relevant to the case. I am of the firm belief that the “NSA Document” was what Monkey Boy used to lure in the MCSO in the first place.

  66. avatar
    RanTalbott July 28, 2015 at 10:32 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: print it out and scan it back in.

    Did Zullups get into that much detail? I remember Gallups being intentionally vague, and saying something fairly close to “It describes how to remove metadata from documents using a Xerox machine”. And I remember joking about removing “metadata” (like fingerprints and original paper type) from actual physical documents by photocopying them.

  67. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund July 28, 2015 at 11:52 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    There was some discussion a while back about an NSA document that said in essence that if you want to scrub metadata from an electronic document, print it out and scan it back in.

    My thought is that Montgomery used that as an examplar for a fake document that described something more than just “print and scan it.” After all, NBC, RC, and I were quite clear that would be the easiest way to erase the tell-tale electronic signs of a forgery when we dove into the inner workings of the Xerox WorkCentre. There had to be something more in the “NSA Document” for Zullo to get so excited about it.

  68. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 28, 2015 at 1:51 pm #

    These are NSA documents on redaction:

    https://www.nsa.gov/ia/_files/support/i733-028r-2008.pdf
    https://www.nsa.gov/ia/_files/vtechrep/i73_025r_2011.pdf
    https://www.nsa.gov/ia/_files/app/pdf_risks.pdf

    Dr. Conspiracy: There was some discussion a while back about an NSA document that said in essence that if you want to scrub metadata from an electronic document, print it out and scan it back in.

  69. avatar
    CharlesHughes July 28, 2015 at 1:56 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: The xerox workflow is probably what made them claim they have to start over and not use the old claims anymore.

    I think that is a very good assumption.

    Before he banned me from his twitter account, I had a conversation with Mark Gillar about the Xerox and Mark’s ‘everyone is going to jail’ videos. Mark admitted that they were wrong about the PDF layers (1-bit and 8-bit) and the noise that Mara Zebest had claimed were signs of forgery. He still thinks halos are not produced by the Xerox even though there are clear examples on the internet with halos like this PDF:

    https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391995/scanned-from-a-xerox-multifunction-device001.pdf

    I think the new direction they took involves Butterdezillion’s indirectly confirmed of something or other. Seriously.

    Shortly after I asked Mark if his ‘going to jail’ videos were based on “Glomar responses” (a Butterdezillion thing), he asked me this:

    “Charlie, I need your actual name along with some type of verification. I hope that’s not a problem.”

    LOL and after that he banned me.

  70. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 28, 2015 at 4:08 pm #

    CharlesHughes: Before he banned me from his twitter account, I had a conversation with Mark Gillar about the Xerox and Mark’s ‘everyone is going to jail’ videos. Mark admitted that they were wrong about the PDF layers (1-bit and 8-bit) and the noise that Mara Zebest had claimed were signs of forgery. He still thinks halos are not produced by the Xerox even though there are clear examples on the internet with halos like this PDF:

    At least he banned you for nitty gritty details. He banned me when I made a fool of him when he was arguing with the Will McAvoy parody feed. He thought the character from The Newsroom was a real reporter from NBC. When it was pointed out to him how foolish he was he banned everyone on the thread.

    CharlesHughes: “Charlie, I need your actual name along with some type of verification. I hope that’s not a problem.”

    Oh so he was taking the mike zullo angle that they need everything about you so they could run a background check before rejecting what you have to say because it doesn’t fit their pre-determined conclusions.

  71. avatar
    CharlesHughes July 28, 2015 at 5:56 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Oh so he was taking the mike zullo angle that they need everything about you so they could run a background check before rejecting what you have to say because it doesn’t fit their pre-determined conclusions.

    Yeah it was weird. It really came out of the blue. Maybe he was joking or maybe I struck a nerve. Who knows. I haven’t seen him ask anyone else for that info. And he also asked me if I was a lawyer. I’m not. That was also out of the blue.

    One thing I’ve noticed with birthers stupid and paranoid seem to go hand-in-hand.

  72. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 28, 2015 at 7:49 pm #

    CharlesHughes: Yeah it was weird. It really came out of the blue.Maybe he was joking or maybe I struck a nerve.Who knows.I haven’t seen him ask anyone else for that info.And he also asked me if I was a lawyer.I’m not.That was also out of the blue.

    One thing I’ve noticed with birthers stupid and paranoid seem to go hand-in-hand.

    Well he’s definitely both. I used to run into him on the amazon forums in the beginning but then he got his butt whipped and he ran off. I’ve gotten him to admit that he was paid by the ccp to produce those press conference videos. He never disclosed how much. I mentioned how that taints anything he has to say and he’s not objective as any supposed journalist he pretends to be

  73. avatar
    CharlesHughes July 28, 2015 at 8:04 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: he’s not objective

    Yeah, I’ve never confused him with an objective journalist. He’s a journalist like Rondeau is a journalist. I know I never heard of him before the birther nonsense. So I really don’t hold it against him for getting paid for his work.