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Arpaio: still investigating the birth certificate, well, sort of, maybe

photo of Aaron KleinSheriff Joe Arpaio recorded an interview with Aaron Klein (pictured right), author, radio host and writer for WorldNetDaily, to be broadcast this Sunday night. An anonymously bylined article at WND talks about the interview, and picks out the Sheriff’s support for Donald Trump in its headline: “Sheriff Joe’s Got Trump’s Back.” Sheriff Joe criticizes the backlash to Trump’s remarks about Mexican immigrant rapists by saying:

I thought we have freedom of speech in this country

Well we do have free speech, free speech for Trump and free speech for his critics.

For our purposes, the part of the interview that is notable is a somewhat vague section of the article:

Arpaio added that Trump “did talk about the birth certificate in the past.”

“You know I’ve been working on that. So I don’t know. I guess you got to be politically correct when you run for office,” he said.

I’ll not try to guess exactly what “I’ve been working” means.

References:

  • Link to AM 970 Aaron Klein show and podcasts

152 Responses to Arpaio: still investigating the birth certificate, well, sort of, maybe

  1. avatar
    john July 3, 2015 at 12:22 pm #

    Ticket for 2016 Trump/Arpaio!

    Arpaio first hand knows the immense problem we are having down on the border. Trump is the only one who has had the guts to say anything meaningful about the problem. None of the other candidates including Clinton have said anything of value or helpfulness regarding the our problem with border security. It’s a growing problem like Social Security going broke and global warming. No one wants to talk about it.

    Donald Trump 2016!!

    I have already begun to mark my money bills.

    Protect our Borders! Vote Donald Trump 2016!

  2. avatar
    john July 3, 2015 at 12:25 pm #

    john:
    Ticket for 2016 Trump/Arpaio!

    Arpaio first hand knows the immense problem we are having down on the border.Trump is the only one who has had the guts to say anything meaningful about the problem.None of the other candidates including Clinton have said anything of value or helpfulness regarding the our problem with border security.It’s a growing problem like Social Security going broke and global warming.No one wants to talk about it.

    Donald Trump 2016!!

    I have already begun to mark my money bills.

    Protect our Borders! Vote Donald Trump 2016!

    I encourage all Trump Supporters as well as Birthers (I assume they are for Trump) to start marking your money bills today.

    Mark those 1’s, 5’s, 10’s, 20’s, 50’s, 100’s

    Vote Donald Trump 2016!!!

  3. avatar
    Steve July 3, 2015 at 1:16 pm #

    john:
    Ticket for 2016 Trump/Arpaio!

    Arpaio first hand knows the immense problem we are having down on the border.Trump is the only one who has had the guts to say anything meaningful about the problem.None of the other candidates including Clinton have said anything of value or helpfulness regarding the our problem with border security.It’s a growing problem like Social Security going broke and global warming.No one wants to talk about it.

    Donald Trump 2016!!

    I have already begun to mark my money bills.

    Protect our Borders! Vote Donald Trump 2016!

    What immense problem? We have zero net immigration. More have been deported under this President than the last one.

  4. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 3, 2015 at 1:21 pm #

    That would be a dream come true for me.

    john: Ticket for 2016 Trump/Arpaio!

  5. avatar
    Reality Check July 3, 2015 at 1:31 pm #

    Yes, if I knew I could make that happen I would cough up some serious dough.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    That would be a dream come true for me.

  6. avatar
    dunstvangeet July 3, 2015 at 1:32 pm #

    It would be interesting to see if that ticket would be able to even pick up one state. It of course has absolutely no chance of winning the general election.

  7. avatar
    Curious George July 3, 2015 at 1:42 pm #

    john
    July 3, 2015

    “Ticket for 2016 Trump/Arpaio!”

    Sorry John Boy. According to Birther Law, Arpaio is not a “natural born citizen” because both of his parents (as in two) were not American citizens the day that Joe popped out.

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 3, 2015 at 1:45 pm #

    We could start a Super PAC.

    Reality Check: Yes, if I knew I could make that happen I would cough up some serious dough.

  9. avatar
    Arthur B. July 3, 2015 at 1:54 pm #

    Aw, wouldn’t you prefer Christie/Arpaio? Then we could take bets on which of the two would be imprisoned before Election Day.

  10. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 3, 2015 at 3:45 pm #

    john:
    Ticket for 2016 Trump/Arpaio!

    …Donald Trump 2016!!

    I have already begun to mark my money bills.

    …Vote Donald Trump 2016!

    I heartily endorse this endeavor. We have found common cause, you racist troll.

  11. avatar
    bgansel9 July 3, 2015 at 4:27 pm #

    “You know I’ve been working on that. So I don’t know. I guess you got to be politically correct when you run for office,” he said.

    You know, I’ve been calling down to MCSO from time to time asking if there was an investigation into the president’s birth certificate and I was always told there wasn’t.

    Why is MCSO lying to a constituent?

  12. avatar
    bgansel9 July 3, 2015 at 4:36 pm #

    john: Ticket for 2016 Trump/Arpaio!

    Another visit from the troll? You would have a man who has never served in government and who went bankrupt four times in his business as the executive of this nation and place a corrupt sheriff with no national experience as his #2? Are you crazy? No, nevermind, we already know the answer.

  13. avatar
    bgansel9 July 3, 2015 at 4:39 pm #

    Curious George: Sorry John Boy. According to Birther Law, Arpaio is not a “natural born citizen” because both of his parents (as in two) were not American citizens the day that Joe popped out.

    BAM!

  14. avatar
    Curious George July 3, 2015 at 5:21 pm #

    bgansel9
    July 3, 2015

    Curious George: Sorry John Boy. According to Birther Law, Arpaio is not a “natural born citizen” because both of his parents (as in two) were not American citizens the day that Joe popped out.

    “BAM!”

    Oh, the delicious irony. Hey, John! Who’s on first?

  15. avatar
    Suranis July 3, 2015 at 6:37 pm #

    Trump’s mother was a British citizen too. BRITISH NATIONALITY ACT!!! Remember that?

  16. avatar
    Suranis July 3, 2015 at 6:46 pm #

    Actually, I’d loooove to know whether Mary Anne MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod, his Mother, who immigrated from Scotland, was an American citizen before his birth.

    Not because it would make any difference but because it would be funny if she wasn’t.

  17. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 3, 2015 at 8:29 pm #

    She was coded in the 1940 census as naturalized. She’s listed under the surname of “Zrump.”

    Suranis: Actually, I’d loooove to know whether Mary Anne MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod, his Mother, who immigrated from Scotland, was an American citizen before his birth.

  18. avatar
    Rickey July 3, 2015 at 10:29 pm #

    john:

    It’s a growing problem like Social Security going broke and global warming.No one wants to talk about it.

    Social Security isn’t going broke. The Social Security trust fund currently has $2.8 trillion dollars in reserves.

    Whatever long-term problems Social Security has can easily be fixed by raising the income limit on FICA taxes.

    I have already begun to mark my money bills.

    Because that tactic worked so well against Obama.

  19. avatar
    Sef July 3, 2015 at 11:38 pm #

    john:
    Ticket for 2016 Trump/Arpaio!

    Arpaio first hand knows the immense problem we are having down on the border.Trump is the only one who has had the guts to say anything meaningful about the problem.None of the other candidates including Clinton have said anything of value or helpfulness regarding the our problem with border security.It’s a growing problem like Social Security going broke and global warming.No one wants to talk about it.

    Donald Trump 2016!!

    I have already begun to mark my money bills.

    Protect our Borders! Vote Donald Trump 2016!

    And we’re back to our John of old.

  20. avatar
    RanTalbott July 4, 2015 at 7:24 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: She was coded in the 1940 census as naturalized. She’s listed under the surname of “Zrump.”

    Well, that settles it, then: since every birfer knows that government workers never make mistakes on important matters like filling in census forms or keying the ZIP codes of Social Security card applicants, it’s clear that she was never naturalized, and Trump is just another tool of the Jewish Bankster Illuminati Islamofascist Commie Conspiracy™.

  21. avatar
    alg July 4, 2015 at 9:19 am #

    “You know I’ve been working on that.” = “Any day now…..”

    These two phrases can be used interchangeably when pandering to birthers on RWNJ radio shows.

  22. avatar
    bovril July 4, 2015 at 12:38 pm #

    RanTalbott: Well, that settles it, then: since every birfer knows that government workers never make mistakes on important matters like filling in census forms or keying the ZIP codes of Social Security card applicants, it’s clear that she was never naturalized, and Trump is just another tool of the Jewish Bankster Illuminati Islamofascist Commie Conspiracy™.

    Not to forget that said census information on status, just like parental nationality in a BC is self reported. So, no actual effective legal basis of fact.

  23. avatar
    Joey July 4, 2015 at 1:01 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    She was coded in the 1940 census as naturalized. She’s listed under the surname of “Zrump.”

    Does that mean that Donald Trump was born with dual citizenship?

  24. avatar
    Dave B. July 4, 2015 at 1:13 pm #

    Why not? Nothing could make more obvious the fiction of Republican fiscal responsibility.

    john: Ticket for 2016 Trump/Arpaio!

  25. avatar
    Reality Check July 4, 2015 at 1:16 pm #

    What Joe was thinking …..

    ‘You know I’ve been working on that. [But unfortunately I put a complete idiot in charge of the investigation who has made me a laughing stock. Then he hooked me up with this con man in Seattle who convinced me to investigate a federal judge and that might land our butts in prison.] ”

  26. avatar
    Joey July 4, 2015 at 3:29 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I had always thought that Irish citizenship could be passed from one’s grandparents, and I found web pages that say that; however,I’m not sure. There were various laws passed in 1935, 1952, and 1956.It would appear that Trump was probably eligible to apply for Irish citizenship by descent, but that he would not have received it automatically.

    His mother is from The Isle of Lewis, Scotland not Ireland.

  27. avatar
    Northland10 July 4, 2015 at 6:14 pm #

    john: I have already begun to mark my money bills.

    Better get moving as there are 36 billion notes in circulation. You may need to spend a bit since the amount low denomination bills in circulation has dropped to 20-35% in the last 20 years but the US $100 bills in circulation has doubled. Actually the amount of $100s out there is about to surpass the amount of $1s.

    Here is a chart.

  28. avatar
    john July 4, 2015 at 7:58 pm #

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/donald-trump-kathryn-steinle-death-pier-14-shows-need-border-n386646

    OK! What is JEB’s, Rubio’s of Hillary’s response to this? They all Suck! Go! Trump Go! Let’s vote in Trump, build that wall and start putting thumb screws on Mexico.

  29. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 4, 2015 at 8:36 pm #

    john:
    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/donald-trump-kathryn-steinle-death-pier-14-shows-need-border-n386646

    OK!What is JEB’s, Rubio’s of Hillary’s response to this?They all Suck!Go! Trump Go!Let’s vote in Trump, build that wall and start putting thumb screws on Mexico.

    Trump is a hypocrite his trump signature collection of men’s apparel is manufactured in Mexico

  30. avatar
    Steve July 4, 2015 at 9:17 pm #

    john:
    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/donald-trump-kathryn-steinle-death-pier-14-shows-need-border-n386646

    OK!What is JEB’s, Rubio’s of Hillary’s response to this?They all Suck!Go! Trump Go!Let’s vote in Trump, build that wall and start putting thumb screws on Mexico.

    There’s always been illegal immigration. There always will be. It’s not “out of control.” They’re being deported at a higher rate under this President than the previous one.
    We can’t deport every one of them. We can’t build a 2,000-mile long wall and even if we could I doubt you’d be willing to pay the higher taxes necessary to build it.

  31. avatar
    OllieOxenFree July 4, 2015 at 9:58 pm #

    john: OK! What is JEB’s, Rubio’s of Hillary’s response to this? They all Suck! Go! Trump Go! Let’s vote in Trump, build that wall and start putting thumb screws on Mexico.

    I deplore the use of any tragic event being used as a political football, no matter who does it, but you my friend seem to be to far too excited about this.

    It’s as if you are saying, “yes! We have a body! Let’s see how much political hay we can make out of it!”

    I love this idea that “wall builders,” have that if we build this wall it will somehow prevent any illegal immigrants from getting here… especially those who do so to commit illegal acts or act of violence in this country. As if we have no coast lines at all and the worlds longest international border to our north is non-existent.

    A wall…. I ask you! If you build a fence around less than a third of your whole yard, do you honestly expect it to keep trespassers out?

  32. avatar
    Joey July 4, 2015 at 10:30 pm #

    john:
    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/donald-trump-kathryn-steinle-death-pier-14-shows-need-border-n386646

    OK!What is JEB’s, Rubio’s of Hillary’s response to this?They all Suck!Go! Trump Go!Let’s vote in Trump, build that wall and start putting thumb screws on Mexico.

    I live in San Diego, 15 minutes drive from Mexico. We have the border wall running the length of San Diego County. Mexicans just tunnel under it.
    Did the Berlin Wall, with armed guards stop East Germans from defecting to West Berlin?

    John might want to take a look at the photos of the existing wall and illegal immigrants climbing over it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_barrier#

  33. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 4, 2015 at 10:50 pm #

    Yes I know that. I need to do some maintenance work on my brain.

    Joey: His mother is from The Isle of Lewis, Scotland not Ireland.

  34. avatar
    john July 4, 2015 at 11:44 pm #

    Joey: I live in San Diego, 15 minutes drive from Mexico. We have the border wall running thelength of San Diego County. Mexicans just tunnel under it.
    Did the Berlin Wall, with armed guards stop East Germans from defecting to West Berlin?

    John might want to take a look at the photos of the existing wall and illegal immigrants climbing over it:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_barrier#

    Building a wall is only part of the solution. Didn’t during slave times there was reward for turning in a runaway slave. Could make a reward for turning in an illegal.

  35. avatar
    john July 4, 2015 at 11:45 pm #

    john: Building a wall is only part of the solution.Didn’t during slave times there was reward for turning in a runaway slave.Could make a reward for turning in an illegal. The Post Office offers nice rewards for turning in postal crimes. Why not add illegals.

  36. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 4, 2015 at 11:55 pm #

    john: Could make a reward for turning in an illegal.

    So you’re calling for higher taxes again? And how do we tell if someone is illegal? Will they wear signs?

  37. avatar
    john July 5, 2015 at 12:11 am #

    What is happening to Trump is not unlike what is happening to Sheriff Arpaio so I can easily see why Arpaio supports Trump wholeheartly. Trump is facing a very vicious backlash professionally (Business) while Arpaio is viciously being attacked legally through our Federal Courts. The media and general culture doesn’t want to even hint talk of illegal immigration for fear of reprisal from a growing Latino electorlate. Most Democrats support illegal immigration because they know the majority of them are hardcore Democrat. Obama has poisoned the Federal Courts into crucifying any legal authority who want to combat illegal immigration.

  38. avatar
    Keith July 5, 2015 at 12:21 am #

    john: Didn’t during slave times there was reward for turning in a runaway slave.

    True.

    And that worked out well didn’t it?

    There were gangs of bloodthirsty terrorists invading Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and even into Michigan and New York to beat, murder, rape and kidnap the legal (yes and a few runaways too) citizens of those states, both black and white.

    Is this what you wish on your fellow citizens? You think that if you put a bounty on undocumented residents that people like Joe Arpaio (who refuses to execute the duties of his office if the victim is Hispanic – see the hundreds of rape claims he refuses to deal with) won’t be the first one to set up a “Runaway Slave Undocumented Resident Round-up Posse and go on terror raids? And woe upon anyone who gets in their way.

    By the way, this seems a good spot to plug the book “Bound for Canaan – The Epic Story of the Underground Railroad” by Fergus M. Bordewich. ISBN-13 978-0-06-052431-9

  39. avatar
    Dave July 5, 2015 at 12:39 am #

    It has become clear that the only evidence the bigots need to decide a person is just plain obviously in the country illegally is if that person is a Latino.

    Calling Latinos “illegals” makes them feel like their bigotry is justified.

    Bonsall Obot: And how do we tell if someone is illegal? Will they wear signs?

  40. avatar
    Keith July 5, 2015 at 12:42 am #

    john: What is happening to Trump is not unlike what is happening to Sheriff Arpaio

    The two are ‘not unlike’ each other only because they have brought what ever ‘is happening’ to them upon themselves: derision in one case and prosecution in the other.

    Trump is a fool, but he is not stupid. He knows all about the koan: “If you don’t want to be ridiculed, don’t be ridiculous’. And he doesn’t care. He also understands that ridicule is attention and he craves attention no matter what.

    People like you who don’t understand that about Trump also don’t understand that he doesn’t give a fornication about you or anything else that doesn’t fit under his hairdo. He’s just setting himself up for another round of bankruptcy so he can go sail off on his yacht for a few years.

    As for Arpaio, well, he’s just an old fashioned, corrupt cop turned corrupt politician with an over inflated idea of his own invulnerability. As his personal circle of ‘made’ men shrinks his desperation grows and his carefully manicured mask drops.

  41. avatar
    Keith July 5, 2015 at 12:45 am #

    john: Most Democrats support illegal immigration because they know the majority of them are hardcore Democrat.

    Only citizens can vote, you know. Last time I checked, illegal Immigrants are not Citizens. And furthermore there are MORE illegal immigrants being deported under this Democratic Administration than any Republican Administration ever.

    Do you ever even bother to think about what you are writing?

  42. avatar
    Steve July 5, 2015 at 1:54 am #

    Keith: Only citizens can vote, you know. Last time I checked, illegal Immigrants are not Citizens. And furthermore there are MORE illegal immigrants being deported under this Democratic Administration than any Republican Administration ever.

    Sadly, Fox News says otherwise and Fox News has a lot of influence in this country. It’s sort of like ESPN with college football. What Fox News says is generally accepted as truth by a lot of people in this country, regardless of whether or not it’s actually true.
    Just look at the Treyvon Martin case, where they convinced just about everybody the kid wasn’t just walking home, minding his own business before he was shot.

  43. avatar
    Dave B. July 5, 2015 at 2:15 am #

    Man, is there no limit?

    john:
    .Most Democrats support illegal immigration because they know the majority of them are hardcore Democrat.

  44. avatar
    Dave B. July 5, 2015 at 2:19 am #

    Oh. Apparently there is no limit. What kind of despicable human being holds up slave-catchers as an example?

    john: Building a wall is only part of the solution.Didn’t during slave times there was reward for turning in a runaway slave.Could make a reward for turning in an illegal.

  45. avatar
    Lupin July 5, 2015 at 2:50 am #

    I don’t like the expression “illegal aliens”. In Europe we use what would translate as “undocumented immigrants” which I think is both more factually accurate as well as less prejudicial.

  46. avatar
    Lupin July 5, 2015 at 2:52 am #

    Dave B.: Oh. Apparently there is no limit. What kind of despicable human being holds up slave-catchers as an example?

    john has no decency whatsoever; not an ounce, zilch. He just is an appalling human being.

  47. avatar
    john July 5, 2015 at 3:58 am #

    Lupin:
    I don’t like the expression “illegal aliens”. In Europe we use what would translate as “undocumented immigrants” which I think is both more factually accurate as well as less prejudicial.

    Yes, changing the expression from “illegal aliens” to “undocumented immigrants” has been a way to in attempt to make the problem less sounding and more uninterested. What part of “illegal” don’t people understand. It’s a little like changing the word meanings
    Rapists – “unsolicited sex partner.”
    Bank Robbery – “An unauthorized bank transaction.”
    Child Molester – “A naughty playmate.”

  48. avatar
    Dave B. July 5, 2015 at 4:05 am #

    You ceded ANY credibility on that issue long ago. NOBODY gives a hoot what you think about…well, much of anything really, but when it comes to this subject, you’re a stark, raving, rabid lunatic. Malicious and malignant.

    john: Yes, changing the expression from “illegal aliens” to “undocumented immigrants”has been a way to in attempt to make the problem less sounding and more uninterested.What part of “illegal” don’t people understand.It’s a little like changing the word meanings
    Rapists – “unsolicited sex partner.”
    Bank Robbery – “An unauthorized bank transaction.”
    Child Molester – “A naughty playmate.”

  49. avatar
    john July 5, 2015 at 4:22 am #

    john: Yes, changing the expression from “illegal aliens” to “undocumented immigrants”has been a way to in attempt to make the problem less sounding and more uninterested.What part of “illegal” don’t people understand.It’s a little like changing the word meanings
    Rapists – “unsolicited sex partner.”
    Bank Robbery – “An unauthorized bank transaction.”
    Child Molester – “A naughty playmate.”

    It’s OK! Next time you see a raped woman, you can tell it’s alright, there is nothing to worry about. All it was some unsolicited sexual pleasure, where’s the harm in that. And next time a child molester is accused, I will go to court to ask the court for a light sentence. Afterall, the child molester was just the child’s playmate who acted a little inappropriately.

  50. avatar
    Krosis July 5, 2015 at 4:29 am #

    Anti-immigrationism is all the rage these days all over the planet. Much more mainstream than birthism or its equivalents. This doesn’t make it any better, ofc.

  51. avatar
    Hektor July 5, 2015 at 7:29 am #

    Yes, john, parsing the language around someone who stays in the country after their visa expires or even smuggles themselves in is the same thing as being an apologist for child molestation, robbery and rape. Do you have even a clue how vile and moronic you manage to sound?

  52. avatar
    Northland10 July 5, 2015 at 8:14 am #

    john: And next time a child molester is accused, I will go to court to ask the court for a light sentence. Afterall, the child molester was just the child’s playmate who acted a little inappropriately.

    Lucky for you, your hero Arpaio apparently agrees. While he has lots of pressers regarding immigration, he has left many child abuse cases untouched.

    You just don’t get that Arpaio’s actions are entirely determined by what will get him the greatest support among the fools like you. For him, law enforcement is of no concern. His decisions are based upon what will best fill his campaign chest and get the frightened in his area to blindly vote for him.

    He’s playing you for a fool, and you are happily letting him.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 5, 2015 at 8:48 am #

    You were aware that those folks can’t vote, right?

    john: Most Democrats support illegal immigration because they know the majority of them are hardcore Democrat.

  54. avatar
    john July 5, 2015 at 9:07 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    You were aware that those folks can’t vote, right?

    They are working on trying to change that and if you can’t tell if someone is illegal you may never know anyway.

  55. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 5, 2015 at 9:19 am #

    Exactly where are Democrats trying to change the laws to allow undocumented aliens to vote?

    john: They are working on trying to change that

  56. avatar
    gorefan July 5, 2015 at 9:51 am #

    john: if you can’t tell if someone is illegal you may never know anyway.

    How Can You Be in Two Places at Once When You’re Not Anywhere at All

  57. avatar
    john July 5, 2015 at 11:33 am #

    I was just thinking, if Donald Trump became POTUS, you could effectively pardon Terry Lakin. I don’t what Trump’s position is on Lakin but I am sure he probably would have supported what Lakin did and would consider pardoning him. Trump effectively asked for the same request and actually got it without penalty unlike Lakin who never got his answer and was punished for it.

  58. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 5, 2015 at 11:39 am #

    john:
    I was just thinking, if Donald Trump became POTUS, you could effectively pardon Terry Lakin.I don’t what Trump’s position is on Lakin but I am sure he probably would have supported what Lakin did and would consider pardoning him.Trump effectively asked for the same request and actually got it without penalty unlike Lakin who never got his answer and was punished for it.

    Well lets stop you at the part where you claimed you were thinking. We know you don’t do that. You do know in order to be pardoned Lakin will once again have to admit he was guilty of the crime. Lakin got his answer nothing he had to say had anything to do with why he committed his crime and what he was guilty of.

  59. avatar
    john July 5, 2015 at 11:46 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Exactly where are Democrats trying to change the laws to allow undocumented aliens to vote?

    How Photo ID Laws. Trying to rid them so illegals can vote.

  60. avatar
    Crustacean July 5, 2015 at 12:26 pm #

    Quelle surprise!! John has reached an illogical conclusion!

    So the reason people oppose voter ID laws is so “illegals” can vote, huh? Where did you get that idiotic idea? Oh yeah, your fevered, demented imagination. You really need to get a grip on reality or STFU!! I mean that sincerely.

    By the way, that “illegal” who killed the woman in SF says he was shooting at a harbor seal, an activity you also enjoy. (See how annoying irrational accusations are yet?)

    Again: get real or get lost, dude.

    john: How Photo ID Laws. Trying to rid them so illegals can vote.

  61. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 5, 2015 at 12:36 pm #

    It looks more like people on your side are trying to create photo ID laws, to keep the poor and elderly from voting. Real voters have to prove their eligibility. Photo ID is only there to prevent someone from impersonating a real voter, something which has vanishingly small numbers. The last thing an undocumented alien wants to do is get caught committing crime (vote fraud).

    john: How Photo ID Laws. Trying to rid them so illegals can vote.

  62. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 5, 2015 at 12:41 pm #

    Birthers are sure of lots of things for which there is no evidence

    john: I don’t what Trump’s position is on Lakin but I am sure he probably would have supported what Lakin did and would consider pardoning him.

  63. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 5, 2015 at 12:51 pm #

    john: How Photo ID Laws.Trying to rid them so illegals can vote.

    What? What does that have to do with anything? Photo ID laws do nothing to stem the non-existent problem. Photo ID laws don’t change absentee balloting requirements.

  64. avatar
    OllieOxenFree July 5, 2015 at 1:39 pm #

    With admittedly no data on hand to prove this, I am going to go out on a limb and say that voter ID laws serve to prevent far more legal US citizens from casting their Constitutionally protected vote than it does to prevent an “illegal,” from casting an illegal ballot.

    Being in a country illegaly means staying under the radar as best they can, so they aren’t exactly flocking to polling places.

  65. avatar
    Rickey July 5, 2015 at 2:01 pm #

    john: How Photo ID Laws.Trying to rid them so illegals can vote.

    You need to install StupidCheck™ on your computer. It is a program that I developed which warns you when you are about to publicly post a comment which betrays ignorance, a lack of critical thinking, racism, and/or sub-standard intelligence.

    For you I would recommend the Pro version, which gives you unlimited warnings and even flags non sequiturs.

  66. avatar
    Krosis July 5, 2015 at 2:05 pm #

    Anti-immigration activism seems to be the thing birthers decide to focus their attention on, as they realize that birtherism is irrelevant now. Even Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq. ™ made moves in this direction.

  67. avatar
    Rickey July 5, 2015 at 2:15 pm #

    OllieOxenFree:

    Being in a country illegally means staying under the radar as best they can, so they aren’t exactly flocking to polling places.

    Absolutely. An undocumented alien who tries to vote has to expose himself to potential discovery twice, once when attempting to register to vote and again when trying to vote in person. People have to show identification when they register to vote, which is as it should be.

    And of course studies show that in-person voter fraud is so rare as to be nearly non-existent.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/

  68. avatar
    Northland10 July 5, 2015 at 2:55 pm #

    john: How Photo ID Laws.Trying to rid them so illegals can vote.

    Some states (I’m looking at you Wisconsin) were nice enough to create a method for getting a Photo ID for free, but the government employees were instructed to withhold the method to get the free ID and to not advertise that they were even available.

    All the voter restriction laws are to prevent poor and minority voters from voting.

    The irony is, many Hispanic and other minority voters might well find common cause with many GOP ideals. Unfortunately, people don’t vote for parties that treat them like second class citizens. Referring to the President of the United States as “Barack the Magic Negro” is not a recommended campaign tactic for getting minority voters to vote Republican.

    BTW, John, your bigotry is the same one some people had about the Irish immigrants. Different time, same whine.

  69. avatar
    donna July 5, 2015 at 3:09 pm #

    Paul Weyrich, a “founding father of the conservative movement”, said in 1980 while addressing a religious right gathering in Dallas: I don’t want everybody to vote. …… As a matter of fact our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”

    Weyrich was involved in the creation of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), the Moral Majority, the Council for National Policy, the Krieble Institute, the Heritage Foundation and others.

  70. avatar
    dunstvangeet July 5, 2015 at 3:41 pm #

    Northland10: Some states (I’m looking at you Wisconsin) were nice enough to create a method for getting a Photo ID for free, but the government employees were instructed to withhold the method to get the free ID and to not advertise that they were even available.

    All the voter restriction laws are to prevent poor and minority voters from voting.

    The irony is, many Hispanic and other minority voters might well find common cause with many GOP ideals.Unfortunately, people don’t vote for parties that treat them like second class citizens. Referring to the President of the United States as “Barack the Magic Negro” is not a recommended campaign tactic for getting minority voters to vote Republican.

    BTW, John, your bigotry is the same one some people had about the Irish immigrants.Different time, same whine.

    To state that those IDs are Free, is misleading as well. The ID itself may be at low-to-no cost, but in order to get one of those IDs, you must have documentation which itself is at cost.

    For instance, in Wisconsin, they accept one of the following as proof of citizenship: a birth certificate (usually somewhere around $15), a Passport (usually $150), etc.

    So, someone who had, for instance, a house fire and lost all of their documentation cannot just go in there and pay nothing.

  71. avatar
    Sef July 5, 2015 at 3:45 pm #

    Rickey: People have to show identification when they register to vote, which is as it should be.

    That depends on the state. In NY, for instance, the registration form requires the entry of SS information or driver’s license info, but there is no requirement that this be actually shown to anyone. The form is sent to the local board who then are responsible for actually validating and registering the individual.

  72. avatar
    Rickey July 5, 2015 at 4:01 pm #

    dunstvangeet: To state that those IDs are Free, is misleading as well.The ID itself may be at low-to-no cost, but in order to get one of those IDs, you must have documentation which itself is at cost.

    For instance, in Wisconsin, they accept one of the following as proof of citizenship: a birth certificate (usually somewhere around $15), a Passport (usually $150), etc.

    So, someone who had, for instance, a house fire and lost all of their documentation cannot just go in there and pay nothing.

    I have a neighbor who is in a Catch-22 because she doesn’t have a valid photo ID card. She had a New York State ID card but she forgot to renew it when it expired several years ago. She tried to get a new ID card but she was told that she would have to produce her birth certificate and her Social Security Card. She has the birth certificate but she lost her Social Security Card. She tried to get a new Social Security Card, but the local SSA office said that she has to produce a valid photo ID.

  73. avatar
    Sef July 5, 2015 at 4:12 pm #

    Rickey: I have a neighbor who is in a Catch-22 because she doesn’t have a valid photo ID card. She had a New York State ID card but she forgot to renew it when it expired several years ago. She tried to get a new ID card but she was told that she would have to produce her birth certificate and her Social Security Card. She has the birth certificate but she lost her Social Security Card. She tried to get a new Social Security Card, but the local SSA office said that she has to produce a valid photo ID.

    NY solves this problem with the affidavit ballot. The voter goes before a judge and swears to the required info. The affidavit is taken to the polling place and she can then vote on the machine.

  74. avatar
    Joey July 5, 2015 at 4:14 pm #

    john: Building a wall is only part of the solution.Didn’t during slave times there was reward for turning in a runaway slave.Could make a reward for turning in an illegal.

    The runaway slave laws were much less effective than the thousands of abolitionists who helped slaves to escape to the North via the Underground Railway. The “North” today are “Sanctuary Cities” that don’t help Immigration and Customs Enforcement (I.C.E?) with illegal immigrants.
    The U.S. has 1,300 miles of coastline from the Washington state border with Canada to the Mexican border with California. Its hard to build a wall on the oceanfront.

  75. avatar
    Joey July 5, 2015 at 4:24 pm #

    Steve: Sadly, Fox News says otherwise and Fox News has a lot of influence in this country. It’s sort of like ESPN with college football. What Fox News says is generally accepted as truth by a lot of people in this country, regardless of whether or not it’s actually true.
    Just look at the Treyvon Martin case, where they convinced just about everybody the kid wasn’t just walking home, minding his own business before he was shot.

    The good news is that Fox News averages about 974,000 viewers for the whole day and about 1.6 million viewers in prime time. That’s less than 1% of the adult population and mostly folks who are hard core conservative Republicans. Fox News “preaches to the choir.”

  76. avatar
    Sef July 5, 2015 at 4:31 pm #

    Joey: The good news is that Fox News averages about 974,000 viewers for the whole day and about 1.6 million viewers in prime time. That’s less than 1% of the adult population and mostly folks who are hard core conservative Republicans. Fox News “preaches to the choir.”

    .
    Interesting statistic: “Cord-cutters approach 7% of US TV population” . https://www.parksassociates.com/blog/article/cord-cutters-approach-7–of-us-tv-population . While the lack of cable does not absolutely prevent access to FNC it makes it more difficult.

  77. avatar
    Rickey July 5, 2015 at 4:34 pm #

    Sef: NY solves this problem with the affidavit ballot. The voter goes before a judge and swears to the required info. The affidavit is taken to the polling place and she can then vote on the machine.

    The problem here is that she isn’t try to register to vote. She’s trying to apply for Food Stamps and apparently she needs a photo ID. She can’t get photo ID without her Social Security Card and she can’t get her Social Security Card without photo ID.

  78. avatar
    Sef July 5, 2015 at 4:43 pm #

    Rickey: The problem here is that she isn’t try to register to vote. She’s trying to apply for Food Stamps and apparently she needs a photo ID. She can’t get photo ID without her Social Security Card and she can’t get her Social Security Card without photo ID.

    I have never been asked for my actual SS card, only the number. Probably a numerocentric individual, like myself, would have less difficulty remembering the number. Maybe someday I will need to extract the card from the safe.

  79. avatar
    Bonsall Obot July 5, 2015 at 5:45 pm #

    Krosis:
    Anti-immigration activism seems to be the thing birthers decide to focus their attention on, as they realize that birtherism is irrelevant now. Even Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq. ™ made moves in this direction.

    I heartily endorse this endeavor. Please proceed, wingnuts.

  80. avatar
    Curious George July 5, 2015 at 6:00 pm #

    john
    July 5, 2015

    john:
    “Yes, changing the expression from “illegal aliens” to “undocumented immigrants”has been a way to in attempt to make the problem less sounding and more uninterested.What part of “illegal” don’t people understand.It’s a little like changing the word meanings
    Rapists – “unsolicited sex partner.”
    Bank Robbery – “An unauthorized bank transaction.”
    Child Molester – “A naughty playmate.”

    It’s OK! Next time you see a raped woman, you can tell it’s alright, there is nothing to worry about. All it was some unsolicited sexual pleasure, where’s the harm in that. And next time a child molester is accused, I will go to court to ask the court for a light sentence. Afterall, the child molester was just the child’s playmate who acted a little inappropriately.”

    Johnny, it really is annoying when someone continues to quote themself as you have done here. It really doesn’t help your case.

    As long as you’re so concerned about the crime of rape, you might ask why your BFF Joe chose to ignore a reported 400 rape cases in El Mirage, Arizona. He probably had his hands full with his sham birth certificate investigation. What say you Johnny?

  81. avatar
    Keith July 5, 2015 at 9:22 pm #

    john: They are working on trying to change that and if you can’t tell if someone is illegal you may never know anyway.

    john: How Photo ID Laws.Trying to rid them so illegals can vote.

    Photo ID laws have nothing to do with making illegals eligible or not eligible to vote. Your statement was that “they” were trying to change the law so that ‘illegal’ aliens could vote. Photo ID actual purpose is to make it difficult for some legal voters to actually exercise their democratic right to cast their vote.

    You compound your error further by making the mistake of REVERSING the facts surrounding photo ID laws.

    Democrats are NOT trying to get rid of Photo ID Laws. Those opposed to voter ID laws are a broad spectrum from all sides of the political spectrum who happen to believe in democracy and the Constitution.

    On the other hand, those trying to impose them are exclusively from the conservative side of the political spectrum, almost exclusively Republicans. And their agenda is to suppress the votes of those people who are unlikely to vote for them.

    Their purpose is specifically designed to make it difficult for low income and otherwise disadvantaged voters to exercise their right. Voters who find it difficult to obtain the required photo ID are shut out of the political process – and that is as un-American as it can get.

    Voters already have to register to vote and that involves proving you are eligible – undocumented aliens cannot prove they are eligible and therefore cannot register to vote. The requirement for a Photo ID at the polling place has ZERO impact on the registration process.

    The only problem a photo ID can ‘solve’ is that of someone impersonating someone else at the polling place. The FACTS show that problem simply does not occur. It is a non-problem. Voter fraud is almost non-existent in American elections, and what fraud does happen has nothing to do what-so-ever with identity problems at the polling place.

    Denying thousands of people their democratic right to vote in order to stop 1 person in a decade from impersonating someone else is unAmerican

  82. avatar
    Keith July 5, 2015 at 9:51 pm #

    Krosis:
    Anti-immigration activism seems to be the thing birthers decide to focus their attention on, as they realize that birtherism is irrelevant now. Even Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq. ™ made moves in this direction.

    Yes, indeed.

    I am of the firm opinion that the entire birther ‘movement’ was just a stalking horse to throw doubt on long established ‘birthright’ citizenship understanding. If they could cast doubt in the public opinion on Obama’s legitimacy as a ‘natural born citizen’ then they wouldn’t have so far to move public opinion to strip the citizenship of American born children of undocumented immigrants.

  83. avatar
    Steve July 5, 2015 at 10:51 pm #

    Keith: The only problem a photo ID can ‘solve’ is that of someone impersonating someone else at the polling place. The FACTS show that problem simply does not occur. It is a non-problem. Voter fraud is almost non-existent in American elections, and what fraud does happen has nothing to do what-so-ever with identity problems at the polling place.

    The argument I’ve gotten about that is that it’s the principle of the thing and that no matter how rare, any amount of voter fraud is unacceptable.
    Of course, I’m not sure how much closer one can get to zero than 31 or so out of a billion.
    Seems to me, if you don’t require ID’s there is a chance, however small, that somebody may vote in someone else’s place (after all, there are ways around everything). If you do require ID’s there is a chance that people who are eligible to vote will not be allowed.
    It’s just a question of on which side you’d rather err.
    I think it’s better to make it easier for people to vote, not harder.

  84. avatar
    Rickey July 5, 2015 at 11:11 pm #

    Sef: I have never been asked for my actual SS card, only the number. Probably a numerocentric individual, like myself, would have less difficulty remembering the number. Maybe someday I will need to extract the card from the safe.

    My neighbor knows her SSN so that isn’t the problem. The SSA requires photo ID to get a replacement card. It is DMV which claims that they need to see her Social Security Card before they can issue her a new photo ID. That is what she tells me, at least.

  85. avatar
    Rickey July 5, 2015 at 11:21 pm #

    john: Yes, changing the expression from “illegal aliens” to “undocumented immigrants”has been a way to in attempt to make the problem less sounding and more uninterested.What part of “illegal” don’t people understand.

    This may come as a surprise to you, but it is not a crime to be an undocumented alien in the United States. It is a civil offense. An undocumented alien can be deported, but cannot be sent to prison simply for being in the United States without papers.

    You and your racist friends on the right prefer to use the phrase “illegal aliens” because that creates a often erroneous connotation of criminal behavior.

  86. avatar
    Rickey July 5, 2015 at 11:24 pm #

    Steve: The argument I’ve gotten about that is that it’s the principle of the thing and that no matter how rare, any amount of voter fraud is unacceptable.

    That is the argument, but the reality is that in-person voter fraud is so rare that it is virtually impossible for fraudulent voters to change the outcome of an election.

    This isn’t to suggest that there aren’t other illegal ways to influence an election, such as vote tallying fraud, “losing” ballots, etc.

  87. avatar
    Steve July 5, 2015 at 11:51 pm #

    Rickey: My neighbor knows her SSN so that isn’t the problem. The SSA requires photo ID to get a replacement card. It is DMV which claims that they need to see her Social Security Card before they can issue her a new photo ID. That is what she tells me, at least.

    Non-citizens can have Social Security Numbers, too, right?

  88. avatar
    Keith July 5, 2015 at 11:54 pm #

    Rickey: I have a neighbor who is in a Catch-22 because she doesn’t have a valid photo ID card. She had a New York State ID card but she forgot to renew it when it expired several years ago. She tried to get a new ID card but she was told that she would have to produce her birth certificate and her Social Security Card. She has the birth certificate but she lost her Social Security Card. She tried to get a new Social Security Card, but the local SSA office said that she has to produce a valid photo ID.

    Somebody is trying to pull a fast one. The SS card says on it that it is not to be used for ID, at least mine does (or did – I’ve lost it). Has the (un)Patriot Act changed that somehow so people have to prove they are eligible to work in order to get an ID card? What a load of rot.

    Even though I’ve lost my card, I can remember my number and I had no problem checking up on my SSA status over the internet from Australia. Didn’t have to show photo ID or fingerprints or existing SSA card or anything.

    I think your friend is being jerked around by jerks.

  89. avatar
    Keith July 5, 2015 at 11:57 pm #

    Sef: .
    Interesting statistic: “Cord-cutters approach 7% of US TV population” . https://www.parksassociates.com/blog/article/cord-cutters-approach-7–of-us-tv-population . While the lack of cable does not absolutely prevent access to FNC it makes it more difficult.

    What about cafe’s, airport lounges, and McDonald’s-es? In Aussieland every Maccas has FauxNews on 24/7, and every one gets 4 copies of the local Murdoch tabloid too.

  90. avatar
    Keith July 6, 2015 at 12:24 am #

    Steve: The argument I’ve gotten about that is that it’s the principle of the thing and that no matter how rare, any amount of voter fraud is unacceptable.

    The Bible

    Abraham drew near, and said, “Will you consume the righteous with the wicked? What if there are fifty righteous within the city? Will you consume and not spare the place for the fifty righteous who are in it?[3] … What if ten are found there?” He [The Lord] said, “I will not destroy it for the ten’s sake.”[

    (The discussion was about Sodom and God did eventually destroy Sodom as we know, but only after rescuing the some of righteous – he did kill the innocent children though. As an aside, the destruction of Sodom was not because of homosexuality, it was bestiality (copulating with Angels) and rudeness to strangers.

    Another example in the Islamic tradition, as compiled in the tome [Jami’] of at-Tirmidhi, quotes Muhammad as saying, “Avoid legal punishments as far as possible, and if there are any doubts in the case then use them, for it is better for a judge to err towards leniency than towards punishment”. Another similar expression reads, “Invoke doubtfulness in evidence during prosecution to avoid legal punishments”. [7]

    The 12th-century legal theorist Maimonides, expounding on this passage as well as Exodus 23:7 (“the innocent and righteous slay thou not”) argued that executing an accused criminal on anything less than absolute certainty would progressively lead to convictions merely “according to the judge’s caprice. Hence the Exalted One has shut this door” against the use of presumptive evidence, for “it is better and more satisfactory to acquit a thousand guilty persons than to put a single innocent one to death.”[1][8][9]

    Sir John Fortescue’s De Laudibus Legum Angliae (c. 1470) states that “one would much rather that twenty guilty persons should escape the punishment of death, than that one innocent person should be condemned and suffer capitally.”

    Similarly, on 3 October 1692, while decrying the Salem witch trials, Increase Mather adapted Fortescue’s statement and wrote, “It were better that Ten Suspected Witches should escape, than that one Innocent Person should be Condemned.”

    Source – Wikipedia: Blackstone’s formulation

    And thus we get to Blackstones Formulation:

    All presumptive evidence of felony should be admitted cautiously; for the law holds it better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent party suffer.[

    There are other viewpoints of course. Bismark has been quoted “it is better that ten innocent men suffer than one guilty man escape.” Pol Pot made similar remarks and so, of course did Dick Cheney when he said: “I’m more concerned with bad guys who got out and released than I am with a few that in fact were innocent.”

    I wonder which viewpoint is the more ‘just’ on this issue: that of the mighty religions and legal minds over the last 3000 years, or the overreaching authoritarians and war criminals of the 20th century?

  91. avatar
    Keith July 6, 2015 at 12:27 am #

    Steve: Non-citizens can have Social Security Numbers, too, right?

    Absolutely. My wife has one. She is an Australian citizen, and not an American citizen.

  92. avatar
    Steve July 6, 2015 at 12:53 am #

    Keith: Absolutely. My wife has one. She is an Australian citizen, and not an American citizen.

    So requiring a voter to give somebody at the polls his or her SSN would be kind of pointless, I guess.

  93. avatar
    Keith July 6, 2015 at 1:05 am #

    Steve: So requiring a voter to give somebody at the polls his or her SSN would be kind of pointless, I guess.

    Yes, of course.

  94. avatar
    Northland10 July 6, 2015 at 9:04 am #

    Keith: There are other viewpoints of course. Bismark has been quoted “it is better that ten innocent men suffer than one guilty man escape.” Pol Pot made similar remarks and so, of course did Dick Cheney when he said: “I’m more concerned with bad guys who got out and released than I am with a few that in fact were innocent.”

    They just don’t get that, for every innocent who is jailed, a guilty one has escaped. I suppose this is what happens when you view success only in numbers of convictions.

  95. avatar
    Rickey July 6, 2015 at 10:41 am #

    Keith: Somebody is trying to pull a fast one. The SS card says on it that it is not to be used for ID, at least mine does (or did – I’ve lost it). Has the (un)Patriot Act changed that somehow so people have to prove they are eligible to work in order to get an ID card? What a load of rot.

    Even though I’ve lost my card, I can remember my number and I had no problem checking up on my SSA status over the internet from Australia. Didn’t have to show photo ID or fingerprints or existing SSA card or anything.

    I think your friend is being jerked around by jerks.

    New York DMV says that they require the Social Security card.

    http://dmv.ny.gov/driver-license/prove-identity-age-permitlicense

  96. avatar
    Lupin July 6, 2015 at 11:10 am #

    john: Yes, changing the expression from “illegal aliens” to “undocumented immigrants”has been a way to in attempt to make the problem less sounding and more uninterested.What part of “illegal” don’t people understand.It’s a little like changing the word meanings
    Rapists – “unsolicited sex partner.”
    Bank Robbery – “An unauthorized bank transaction.”
    Child Molester – “A naughty playmate.”

    I see zero correlation between a foreigner on US soil whose papers may not be up to date and a rapist, a bank robber and a child molester. This is more racist claptrap, hardly surprising coming from you.

  97. avatar
    Lupin July 6, 2015 at 11:13 am #

    Keith: I am of the firm opinion that the entire birther ‘movement’ was just a stalking horse to throw doubt on long established ‘birthright’ citizenship understanding. If they could cast doubt in the public opinion on Obama’s legitimacy as a ‘natural born citizen’ then they wouldn’t have so far to move public opinion to strip the citizenship of American born children of undocumented immigrants.

    I couldn’t agree more; I’ve been saying the same thing for a while.

    Apuzzo in particular strikes me as having done a lot of groundwork to popularize that notion.

  98. avatar
    Kate July 6, 2015 at 1:59 pm #

    Rickey: I have a neighbor who is in a Catch-22 because she doesn’t have a valid photo ID card. She had a New York State ID card but she forgot to renew it when it expired several years ago. She tried to get a new ID card but she was told that she would have to produce her birth certificate and her Social Security Card. She has the birth certificate but she lost her Social Security Card. She tried to get a new Social Security Card, but the local SSA office said that she has to produce a valid photo ID.

    There was a couple I knew who lost everything after a house fire and were in a similar situation. They were going round and round with S.S., the DMV and others trying to get documents replaced. They received assistance with everything after writing to their Congressman who cut through all the red tape in the way. The irony of the situation is that the very same gov’t. who had been holding things up was also the solution to the problem. Unfortunately, this isn’t an uncommon problem and one that will result in the loss of voting privileges for many who have been voting legally for years without question.

  99. avatar
    Rickey July 6, 2015 at 2:30 pm #

    Lupin: I couldn’t agree more; I’ve been saying the same thing for a while.

    Apuzzo in particular strikes me as having done a lot of groundwork to popularize that notion.

    Apuzzo refused to answer questions about who was bankrolling him. We have long suspected that someone with deep pockets was paying him, certainly in an effort to delegitimize Obama, but Apuzzo also exhibits a strong strain of xenophobia.

  100. avatar
    Dave B. July 6, 2015 at 2:50 pm #

    I don’t know, the idea that somebody would keep paying Apuzzo for what he produces seems a bit odd to me. I mean, somebody with genuinely deep pockets could afford a real advocate.

    Rickey: Apuzzo refused to answer questions about who was bankrolling him. We have long suspected that someone with deep pockets was paying him, certainly in an effort to delegitimize Obama, but Apuzzo also exhibits a strong strain of xenophobia.

  101. avatar
    Rickey July 6, 2015 at 3:30 pm #

    Kate: There was a couple I knew who lost everything after a house fire and were in a similar situation.They were going round and round with S.S., the DMV and others trying to get documents replaced.They received assistance with everything after writing to their Congressman who cut through all the red tape in the way.The irony of the situation is that the very same gov’t. who had been holding things up was also the solution to the problem.Unfortunately, this isn’t an uncommon problem and one that will result in the loss of voting privileges for many who have been voting legally for years without question.

    Thanks for the tip. Perhaps our Congressman will be able to help.

  102. avatar
    J.D. Sue July 6, 2015 at 7:10 pm #

    John likes to make a bunch of arguments, easily disproved by the comments above, but I was done when he called undocumented immigrants “filth”. That’s all it takes for me–calling people “filth”. Indeed, he called about 11 million people “filth”. As a World, we’ve been-there-done-that. We know what that language means. So, as far as I’m concerned, John can go f*ck himself. (Doc, I hope I didn’t cross the line with my own language here).

    As for the concern that some undocumented immigrants are dangerous felons, I can only marvel at the sheer hypocrisy/idiocy on the Right. President Obama issued an executive action so that we could focus our resources on deporting felons, but the Right had that executive action enjoined in a Texas federal court.

  103. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 6, 2015 at 9:32 pm #

    Yes, if you can legally work in the US.

    Steve: Non-citizens can have Social Security Numbers, too, right?

  104. avatar
    Northland10 July 6, 2015 at 10:54 pm #

    Dave B.:
    I don’t know, the idea that somebody would keep paying Apuzzo for what he produces seems a bit odd to me.I mean, somebody with genuinely deep pockets could afford a real advocate.

    My clouded memory seems to recall Kerchner going to Apuzzo because he could not find another attorney who would take the case. All the real and successful advocates knew the issue was one big fat loser.

    This does not mean that I agree that Apuzzo has been supported by anybody after his cases were complete. I do not have enough information to form any opinion and I do not see a reason to partake in unsupported speculation. Taking a refusal to answer as evidence of guilt puts us on the same level of the birthers. IMHO, we can do better.

  105. avatar
    Rickey July 6, 2015 at 11:31 pm #

    Dave B.:
    I don’t know, the idea that somebody would keep paying Apuzzo for what he produces seems a bit odd to me.I mean, somebody with genuinely deep pockets could afford a real advocate.

    I don’t know that he is still being paid, but when Apuzzo was spending a lot of time on birthing it didn’t seem likely that he was doing it pro bono. In fact, he never claimed that he was working pro bono, as far as I recall.

  106. avatar
    Dave B. July 7, 2015 at 1:39 am #

    It’s just that he’s so bad at it. And so embarrassingly unprofessional.

    Rickey: I don’t know that he is still being paid, but when Apuzzo was spending a lot of time on birthing it didn’t seem likely that he was doing it pro bono. In fact, he never claimed that he was working pro bono, as far as I recall.

  107. avatar
    Lupin July 7, 2015 at 2:49 am #

    Dave B.: I don’t know, the idea that somebody would keep paying Apuzzo for what he produces seems a bit odd to me. I mean, somebody with genuinely deep pockets could afford a real advocate.

    I’d be inclined to think that a real lawyer who’d care about his reputation would turn down the Kerchners and other white supremacists-type likely to bankroll Apuzzo. We’re not talking the mob which may generate millions in billable hours here. I think Apuzzo found himself (& vice versa) a bunch of like-minded yahoos with delusions of glory that generate a nice little earner on the side,

  108. avatar
    Lupin July 7, 2015 at 2:53 am #

    Northland10: Taking a refusal to answer as evidence of guilt puts us on the same level of the birthers. IMHO, we can do better.

    That may well be in theory, but in this case, Apuzzo would have had nothing to lose by claiming he was acting purely out of high-minded principles. God knows he wraps himself in the flag so much it must need a good dry cleaning by now.

    He didn’t have to divulge the id of client, but his strenuous refusal to address the pro bono question is at the very least suspicious.

  109. avatar
    Dave B. July 7, 2015 at 3:37 am #

    I guess anybody dumb enough to hire Marius in the first place would probably be dumb enough to think he’s doing a bang-up job.

    Lupin: I’d be inclined to think that a real lawyer who’d care about his reputation would turn down the Kerchners and other white supremacists-type likely to bankroll Apuzzo. We’re not talking the mob which may generate millions in billable hours here. I think Apuzzo found himself (& vice versa) a bunch of like-minded yahoos with delusions of glory that generate a nice little earner on the side,

  110. avatar
    Lupin July 7, 2015 at 3:50 am #

    Dave B.:
    I guess anybody dumb enough to hire Marius in the first place would probably be dumb enough to think he’s doing a bang-up job.

    I’m pretty sure they do (or did).

  111. avatar
    welsh dragon July 7, 2015 at 7:43 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Yes, if you can legally work in the US.

    Not even that – I had a SSN months before I was authorized to work and I know others who had them years before employment authorization. It all depends on which visa you come in with.

  112. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 7, 2015 at 8:32 am #

    Kerchner said originally that he was looking for an attorney to represent him pro bono, but I don’t ever recall him saying that Apuzzo, who ended up representing him, was pro bono.

    Rickey: In fact, he never claimed that he was working pro bono, as far as I recall.

  113. avatar
    Reality Check July 7, 2015 at 8:50 am #

    Kerchner certainly has money to throw around. Those full page ads in the Washington Times that he ran on several occasions weren’t cheap. Unfortunately for him they seemed to have had no effect whatsoever. I think Kerchner also funded the mass mailing of Mike Volin’s Sheriff’s kits to every sheriff in the US. That seems to have had the same lack of results.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Kerchner said originally that he was looking for an attorney to represent him pro bono, but I don’t ever recall him saying that Apuzzo, who ended up representing him, was pro bono.

  114. avatar
    Northland10 July 7, 2015 at 9:05 am #

    To clarify my comment above, my issue with speculation referred to the idea of bankrolling him after his walking dead cases were disposed of by the courts. While he was represented clients in court, my default assumption would that he would be paid. With Kerchner’s resources, he would have to have been an idiot to take the case pro bono…

    Hmm, now that I put it that way, I may need to reconsider my thinking.

  115. avatar
    gorefan July 7, 2015 at 11:47 am #

    New Arpaio story. This was interesting:

    “Phoenix attorney Jack Wilenchik says he wasn’t surprised when he saw headlines emerge from the contempt hearing about the investigation involving the judge’s wife. He said he was having lunch with the sheriff months earlier on Sept. 24 at an Italian restaurant in Phoenix when he said Arpaio bragged about looking into the judge’s wife.”

    “He was essentially bragging and claiming he was investigating her for something she said,” Wilenchik said.

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/07/06/sheriff-arpaio-trial-retaliation-charges/29801221/

  116. avatar
    Rickey July 7, 2015 at 12:24 pm #

    Going into the archives on Apuzzo’s blog, it looks like he began birthing on 12/20/2008. It’s unclear if Kerchner was already his client then, or if Kerchner contacted Apuzzo after seeing his blog. The Kerchner lawsuit as filed on 1/20/09 and SCOTUS denied cert on 11/29/10.

    Presumably Kerchner was paying Apuzzo during the course of that lawsuit, but as i recall Apuzzo refused to answer any questions about whether he was being paid afterwards. I don’t blame him for not telling us who was paying him, but he wouldn’t even say if anyone was paying him.

    Interestingly, activity on Apuzzo’s blog dropped precipitously after Obama was re-elected. He posted only four articles in 2013, He has posted six articles this year, mostly about Cruz, Rubio and Jindal. He posted 77 articles in 2011 and 22 articles in 2012.

    Of course, he has been quite busy at WFP this year.

  117. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 7, 2015 at 4:19 pm #

    Kerchner made an appeal in September 2010 for funds to pay for Supreme Court printing and filing fees, reported at ORYR. Birther Report added this comment:

    I urge my readers to make a contribution at the above link. Whether it is a dollar or a hundred dollars, any contribution amount will help the cause. Attorney Mario Apuzzo is working tirelessly on this case at no costs. He is working the Kerchner v Obama lawsuit pro-bono.

    http://www.obamareleaseyourrecords.com/2010/09/from-protectourlibertyorg-re-kerchner-v.html

    Kerchner, commenting at Apuzzo’s blog wrote:

    Please note to all, if you do not already know it, Attorney Mario Apuzzo is working this case pro-bono. And the work done by Mario on this case is considerable and masterful. He and the Plaintiffs have given much in time, talent, and treasure to this cause in addition to their names and sacred honor in this effort to Protect Our Liberty and remove the usurper from the Oval Office.

    http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2010/11/respondents-waive-right-to-respond-to.html

    Rickey: Presumably Kerchner was paying Apuzzo during the course of that lawsuit, but as i recall Apuzzo refused to answer any questions about whether he was being paid afterwards. I don’t blame him for not telling us who was paying him, but he wouldn’t even say if anyone was paying him.

  118. avatar
    Keith July 7, 2015 at 6:01 pm #

    Rickey: New York DMV says that they require the Social Security card.

    http://dmv.ny.gov/driver-license/prove-identity-age-permitlicense

    No they don’t. Read your link. The NYDMV says they need proof of DOB. There are 15 documents they accept as proof of DOB. The SS Card is only one of those.

    True, for most people, and perhaps your friend, the SS card is usually the simplest to provide. But the DMV is NOT requiring the card.

  119. avatar
    Dave B. July 7, 2015 at 6:03 pm #

    Wow. It all makes me think of the fellow who didn’t have to outrun the bear. Marius only has to be smarter than the other idiot.

    Dr. Conspiracy: And the work done by Mario on this case is considerable and masterful.

  120. avatar
    Rickey July 7, 2015 at 6:40 pm #

    Keith: No they don’t. Read you link. The NYDMV says they need proof of DOB. There are 15 documents they accept as proof of DOB. The SS Card is only one of those.

    To get license, permit or non-driver ID for the first time, or to renew one that has been expired for more than 2 years, you must prove your date of birth (DOB) by providing an acceptable document from the list below and name by providing your Social Security Card (SSN) or an ineligibility letter, and one or more documents that total 4 points…

    The Social Security Card isn’t required to prove date of birth, but as I read it the card is required to provide proof of name in conjunction with one or more of the other listed documents.

  121. avatar
    Rickey July 7, 2015 at 6:44 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Kerchner made an appeal in September 2010 for funds to pay for Supreme Court printing and filing fees, reported at ORYR.

    If Kerchner wasn’t paying him, I find it hard to believe that Apuzzo was spending all that time on it without someone else footing the bill.

  122. avatar
    bob July 7, 2015 at 6:58 pm #

    Rickey: If Kerchner wasn’t paying him, I find it hard to believe that Apuzzo was spending all that time on it without someone else footing the bill.

    Why? Many birthers have pissed away countless dollars (and hours) on their futile windmill tilting. Why not also Apuzzo?

    And: Many of those who ridicule birthers have spent not insignificant sums to host web sites, obtain documents, travel to court hearings, etc. The same “logic” would dictate someone is footing the bill for these activities as well.

  123. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 7, 2015 at 7:14 pm #

    Uh. Nobody is paying me and I’ve probably put in more hours than Apuzzo.

    Rickey: If Kerchner wasn’t paying him, I find it hard to believe that Apuzzo was spending all that time on it without someone else footing the bill

  124. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater July 7, 2015 at 7:15 pm #

    Reality Check:
    Kerchner certainly has money to throw around. Those full page ads in the Washington Times that he ran on several occasions weren’t cheap. Unfortunately for him they seemed to have had no effect whatsoever. I think Kerchner also funded the mass mailing of Mike Volin’s Sheriff’s kits to every sheriff in the US. That seems to have had the same lack of results.

    so much so that he’s now repeated it with every congressperson. When that didn’t work I think some of his supporters started giving them to mailmen

  125. avatar
    Slartibartfast July 7, 2015 at 7:18 pm #

    Sure, that’s what you say…

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Uh. Nobody is paying me and I’ve probably put in more hours than Apuzzo.

  126. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 7, 2015 at 7:18 pm #

    I watched that movie a couple of days ago. Good one.

    Dave B.: Wow. It all makes me think of the fellow who didn’t have to outrun the bear.

  127. avatar
    Scott J. Tepper July 7, 2015 at 7:20 pm #

    In that vein, many lawyers have worked pro bono on birther cases. For the sheer joy of kicking birther lawyer asses down the courthouse steps.

    I, for one, particularly enjoyed it and the 100+ page opinion I got telling the world what we already knew — that Orly Taitz is a complete fuckwit.

  128. avatar
    Dave B. July 7, 2015 at 8:51 pm #

    They’re covering this one over at Mr. Conservative:
    http://mrconservative.com/2015/07/61136-major-bombshell-about-obamas-fraudulent-birth-certificate-drops/

  129. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 7, 2015 at 9:19 pm #

    The opinion, for your viewing pleasure:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Taitz-v.-MDP-Order-dismissing-10514403662.pdf

    Scott J. Tepper: I, for one, particularly enjoyed it and the … opinion

  130. avatar
    Rickey July 7, 2015 at 9:37 pm #

    bob: Why?Many birthers have pissed away countless dollars (and hours) on their futile windmill tilting.Why not also Apuzzo?

    And: Many of those who ridicule birthers have spent not insignificant sums to host web sites, obtain documents, travel to court hearings, etc.The same “logic” would dictate someone is footing the bill for these activities as well.

    The difference is that Apuzzo is a practicing attorney. It’s one thing to be an anonymous birther such as “Barry Soetoro, Esq.” It’s another thing to be a real attorney putting his real name out there (unlike Orly Taitz, who has a law license but no law practice).

    I could see Apuzzo working pro bono if he thought that it would bring him business, enhance his reputation in the legal community, etc., but that doesn’t seem likely (he doesn’t even mention his birthing on his law firm’s website). I know a lot of practicing attorneys, but I don’t know any who would invest the kind of time on legal research that Apuzzo has invested in birthing without getting paid for it.

    Of course, it also is possible that he has no life.

    As for anti-birthers, we’re in it because it’s important to challenge falsehoods, and also for the entertainment.

  131. avatar
    Rickey July 7, 2015 at 9:39 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Uh. Nobody is paying me and I’ve probably put in more hours than Apuzzo.

    True, but you have the advantage of being retired!

  132. avatar
    Keith July 7, 2015 at 9:47 pm #

    Rickey: To get license, permit or non-driver ID for the first time, or to renew one that has been expired for more than 2 years, you must prove your date of birth (DOB) by providing an acceptable document from the list below and name by providing your Social Security Card (SSN) or an ineligibility letter, and one or more documents that total 4 points…

    The Social Security Card isn’t required to prove date of birth, but as I read it the card is required to provide proof of name in conjunction with one or more of the other listed documents.

    OK, perhaps I misread that statement. At least I can see how it can be interpreted as you say they are.

    I read it to mean they want to know your SSN so they can look it up in their database as a crosscheck. The sentence is ambiguous; they ask for the card and then parenthetically indicate they really mean just the SSN. Footnote 5 says that if they don’t have your SSN in their database they need to see your physical card.

    Which ever the case is, they should have a standard bureaucratic procedure to deal with situations like your friend’s – it cannot possibly be a problem so unusual that they don’t have to deal with it probably every other day.

  133. avatar
    bob July 7, 2015 at 9:54 pm #

    Rickey: The difference is that Apuzzo is a practicing attorney.

    Larry Klayman is a practicing attorney, and he birfs. Several other real attorneys have also birfed. Berg was a real lawyer. Kreep birfed, and became a real judge. Roy Moore has been birfer friendly, and he’s a state supreme court chief justice.

    Until 2008, Apuzzo was basically a nobody; he had an undistinguished career. He basically had no life, and no real reputation to risk. And the same is still true; what has Apuzzo risked, really?

    You say anti-birthers are motivated by non-financial goals; birthers, too, can be motivated by non-financial goals. And if they were correct, they would have become instantly famous — so there can be self-interest without being directly compensated.

  134. avatar
    Rickey July 7, 2015 at 9:56 pm #

    Keith: OK, perhaps I misread that statement. At least I can see how it can be interpreted as you say they are.

    I read it to mean they want to know your SSN so they can look it up in their database as a crosscheck. The sentence is ambiguous; they ask for the card and then parenthetically indicate they really mean just the SSN. Footnote 5 says that if they don’t have your SSN in their database they need to see your physical card.

    Which ever the case is, they should have a standard bureaucratic procedure to deal with situations like your friend’s – it cannot possibly be a problem so unusual that they don’t have to deal with it probably every other day.

    I agree. I don’t see how a Social Security Card is meaningful as proof of identity.

    My neighbor is even a registered voter. We’re asking our Congressman to help.

  135. avatar
    Keith July 7, 2015 at 9:57 pm #

    Rickey: The difference is that Apuzzo is a practicing attorney.

    Yeah, OK.

    But he’ll never be as good as Allen Iverson. We talkin’ about PRACTICE, man!

  136. avatar
    Slartibartfast July 7, 2015 at 10:15 pm #

    Bob,

    The difference with Klayman is that he has a long history of frivolous litigation (against Democratic presidents to boot) whereas, at least as far as I know, Mario never did anything but defend drunk drivers until he started birfing.

    bob: Larry Klayman is a practicing attorney, and he birfs.Several other real attorneys have also birfed.Berg was a real lawyer.Kreep birfed, and became a real judge.Roy Moore has been birfer friendly, and he’s a state supreme court chief justice.

    Until 2008, Apuzzo was basically a nobody; he had an undistinguished career.He basically had no life, and no real reputation to risk.And the same is still true; what has Apuzzo risked, really?

    You say anti-birthers are motivated by non-financial goals; birthers, too, can be motivated by non-financial goals.And if they were correct, they would have become instantly famous — so there can be self-interest without being directly compensated.

  137. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 7, 2015 at 10:27 pm #

    This is particularly true because there are no security features that I know of in a social-security card. At least for some eras, they are totally plain.

    Rickey: I agree. I don’t see how a Social Security Card is meaningful as proof of identity.

  138. avatar
    chancery July 7, 2015 at 11:16 pm #

    We went through this recently in NYC when my daughter wanted a learner’s permit. She has her birth certificate, her passport, and a NYS non-driver’s ID. But we couldn’t find her social security card, so she couldn’t apply for her learner’s permit until she had received a replacement. The old SS card eventually turned up, fortunately not in a place under my control. She still hasn’t applied for the permit . . .

    Edit: I guess I should say that she has an original certified copy of her birth certificate.

  139. avatar
    Pete July 7, 2015 at 11:42 pm #

    Rickey: The difference is that Apuzzo is a practicing attorney.

    No matter how much he practices, he’ll never be good at it.

  140. avatar
    bob July 8, 2015 at 12:10 am #

    Slartibartfast:
    The difference with Klayman is that he has a long history of frivolous litigation (against Democratic presidents to boot) whereas, at least as far as I know, Mario never did anything but defend drunk drivers until he started birfing.

    Klayman’s assault on the Clintons had the veneer on respectability because he was hitting on issuing that at least captured the public’s attention, e.g., Travelgate, Gennifer Flowers, etc. So him birfering was a new low, even for him.

    And there are other lawyers with otherwise middling careers who also birfed, like Berg and Kreep. And Berg wasn’t a one-and-done: Berg wrote “ObamaScare” — he too has devoted countless hours to Obama hating.

  141. avatar
    RanTalbott July 8, 2015 at 1:13 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: When that didn’t work I think some of his supporters started giving them to mailmen

    Why? We know birfers are huge believers in stereotypes. Were they hoping to push one of them into going berserk and assassinating someone?

  142. avatar
    Rickey July 8, 2015 at 1:44 am #

    bob: Larry Klayman is a practicing attorney, and he birfs.Several other real attorneys have also birfed.Berg was a real lawyer.Kreep birfed, and became a real judge.Roy Moore has been birfer friendly, and he’s a state supreme court chief justice.

    The difference is that Klayman gets donations through Freedom Watch and Kreep was supported by the U.S. Justice Foundation. Filing political lawsuits is what they do.

    Apuzzo is a sole practitioner who, as far as can be determined, never got involved in political lawsuits before.

  143. avatar
    bob July 8, 2015 at 1:37 pm #

    Rickey: The difference is that Klayman gets donations through Freedom Watch and Kreep was supported by the U.S. Justice Foundation. Filing political lawsuits is what they do.

    So they would have any even greater incentive to not birf — it is a criminally stupid belief that all but the fringe avoid. Yet they did.

    And Berg: Was a solo practitioner (until he resigned).

    Is it really so hard to believe Apuzzo is motivated by what motivates every other birther: a combination of hatred, stupidity, and ego?

  144. avatar
    Rickey July 8, 2015 at 4:06 pm #

    bob:

    Is it really so hard to believe Apuzzo is motivated by what motivates every other birther: a combination of hatred, stupidity, and ego?

    That is certainly a possibility. Maybe he thought that he could become famous by getting Obama impeached for being ineligible. Still, after the Kerchner case was rejected by SCOTUS he refused to answer any questions about whether he was being paid.

  145. avatar
    bob July 8, 2015 at 4:48 pm #

    Rickey: Maybe he thought that he could become famous by getting Obama impeached for being ineligible.

    Surely. And many birthers are true believers — their form of patriotism (twisted as it may be) is also a reasonable motivator.

    Still, after the Kerchner case was rejected by SCOTUS he refused to answer any questions about whether he was being paid.

    And? I don’t answer questions birthers ask me, and my silence doesn’t mean there’s a factual basis for their questions.

    Among the things I’ve observed about Apuzzo: he’s obfusive. He won’t answer a question with a responsive answer unless he is absolutely sure there is no downside to him answering.

  146. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 8, 2015 at 10:24 pm #

    Could he have been paid, and Kerchner not know it?

    Rickey: Still, after the Kerchner case was rejected by SCOTUS he refused to answer any questions about whether he was being paid.

  147. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy July 8, 2015 at 10:30 pm #

    I wasn’t retired in 2009-2010.

    Rickey: True, but you have the advantage of being retired!

  148. avatar
    Keith July 8, 2015 at 10:51 pm #

    charo: A must see for you:

    https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=caliandro+morgan+freeman+practice+rant&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004

    Go to any of the links hahaha

    Hey Charo! Long time no post!

    That was great, thanks.

  149. avatar
    J.D. Sue July 9, 2015 at 11:10 pm #

    Rickey: refused to answer any questions about whether he was being paid.


    Lawyers don’t generally answer questions like that, unless they are required to, so you can’t really infer anything from that.

  150. avatar
    Rickey July 9, 2015 at 11:31 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Could he have been paid, and Kerchner not know it?

    I don’t know, but the idea has an unethical smell to it. Do we know if Kerchner found Apuzzo, or was Apuzzo looking for a client and found Kerchner?

  151. avatar
    Rickey July 9, 2015 at 11:31 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I wasn’t retired in 2009-2010.

    Well, you got me there.