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Thoughts on my WOBC appearance

First I’ll say that Mike Volin honored his representations about my appearance on his Blog Talk Radio Show, Where’s Obama’s Birth Certificate? Overall, I got to say what I wanted to say without interruption, and Mike and his callers got to say what they wanted to say. Today, the day after, I want to say a few things about the experience.

The show was billed this way:

Kevin Davidson AKA Doctor Conspiracy will appear as the guest. Mr. Davidson operates the controversial website obamaconspiracy.org which opposes the investigation and allegations surrounding the mysterious past of Obama. Further details to be released at show time. Crowd control security to be provided by volunteers.

I’m not sure that I agree with the phrase “opposes the investigation.” I do reject the truthfulness of many of these allegations, and in that sense I “oppose” those allegations, but I support anyone’s right to research, and for any jurisdiction to investigation suspicious they have. I would also take issue with describing Obama’s past as “mysterious” given the fact that numerous books, including an autobiographical one, and documentaries that have been made on Obama. Indeed, I know more about Obama’s past than that of any president in history.

At Birther Report, they characterize it a little differently, in their article titled, “Full Audio: Obot Kevin Davidson AKA Doctor CONspiracy Defends Obama’s Article II Ineligibility.” If my appearance on the Volin Show and my web site is “defending” Obama’s eligibility, then by the same token, one might characterize Volin’s show as attacking Obama’s eligibility. Volin, however, would not put it that way. All he’s asking for is an investigation into the anomalies.

“Anomalies” was the central theme from the birther side on the program. The argument is, look at all these anomalies—there are too many to be just chance—the odds are just too great.

The problem with that argument is twofold. First, many of the anomalies aren’t really anomalies. I was frankly surprised that Mike Volin brought up the travel advisory to Pakistan in 1981 when Obama went there as an anomaly. To Volin’s credit, he didn’t say “travel ban” like some birthers, but he did say that the government was advising Americans not to travel to Pakistan, and cited a travel advisory. Volin apparently didn’t know what was in the travel advisory (it’s a caution about not overstaying a 30-day visa). So there is absolutely nothing to the so-called anomaly of Obama traveling to Pakistan based on any travel advice from the government. So part of Volin’s list of improbably anomalies is a fiction. What that item shows is that some birther was willing to lie about the travel advisory, and even today after that lie should have been put to rest, it still enters into birther calculations.

There were other statements made about anomalies that were pure fantasy—specifically that “African” never appeared on any US birth certificate, and that there was never an unreadable century on a US post office state cancellation.

Another issue with anomalies is that birthers make the jump from anomaly to fraud, even when that is a very unlikely explanation. One good example is the incomplete date impression on the Obama selective service registration image. Is it likely that the Bush Administration (in office when the document was released via FOIA) would cover for Obama? Obviously not. I have spent 7 years looking at these so-called anomalies, and generally they fall apart, or they are within the normal range of stuff that happens in messy real life.

The second problem with anomalies is the assignment of probability after the fact. What is the chance that I am where I am today? More coincidences than I could begin to count have come together to make my present situation in life. The probability of each one multiplied together gives a figure that’s more than astronomically small. That kind of calculation is simply not a valid statistical argument. In fact, I am where I am, however improbable. I doubt that most people know how to make a valid statistical argument (I have a master’s degree in mathematics), but the birthers try anyway.

Volin repeatedly raised the frequently-heard argument: wouldn’t all this be put to rest by a forensic examination of the long-form birth certificate? Volin says that he’s asked the White House for a look see, and received no answer. My experience so far is that nothing satisfies the conspiracy theorist. I mentioned to Volin already-made demands to carbon date microfilm copies of the Obama certificate. I think that I have good reason to believe that nothing in the way of examination of anything would resolve the issue in the minds of hard-core birthers.

As others have said in comments before me, none of the participants changed their minds as the result of the Volin show last night, but there is always the possibility that there is still someone on the fence who might have learned something. I sent Mike Volin a copy of that 1981 travel advisory and possibly he might not bring that up again.

Hope springs eternal.

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63 Responses to Thoughts on my WOBC appearance

  1. avatar
    Krosis October 17, 2015 at 12:15 pm #

    I’m surprised that Volin allowed Doc on his program at all.

  2. avatar
    Reality Check October 17, 2015 at 12:39 pm #

    After months of promising him an appearance he gave Doc one days notice. I suppose he thought Doc would be unprepared for the likes of Sarge (I don’t for a minute think Sarge calling was a coincidence). If Mike thought that he was mistaken. Doc’s been at this for over seven years.

    Krosis:
    I’m surprised that Volin allowed Doc on his program at all.

  3. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 17, 2015 at 1:01 pm #

    Falcon says the delay was because Volin couldn’t find ANYONE willing to debate me.

    Reality Check: After months of promising him an appearance he gave Doc one days notice.

  4. avatar
    alg October 17, 2015 at 1:02 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Falcon says the delay was because Volin couldn’t find ANYONE willing to debate me.

    I’d take that as a complement. 😀

  5. avatar
    gorefan October 17, 2015 at 1:09 pm #

    Ed Sunderland a sometimes host of Volin’s show has in the past said that President Obama must have had help forging the Selective Service card because it was issued by the Bush Administration. Some time ago Volin said that he and Ed were working on some scheme to see if the SSA was involved. Never heard any more about it. My guess is the s heme was as successful as the sheriff’s kits.

  6. avatar
    Curious George October 17, 2015 at 1:12 pm #

    I must say that I would describe Sarge as beyond “passionate.” I was hoping for more conversation and interaction as opposed to Sarge’s lengthy, time consuming oratory. He’s a lost cause.

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 17, 2015 at 1:24 pm #

    Mike mentioned that again last night, but he provided no information about it.

    gorefan: Some time ago Volin said that he and Ed were working on some scheme to see if the SSA was involved. Never heard any more about it.

  8. avatar
    bob October 17, 2015 at 1:29 pm #

    Your observations above are more interesting (to me) than the actual “debate.” Because it was the same lies (told by the same liars) that have been repeated for the past seven years.

    Doc made obvious points, e.g., HIPAA prevents the hospital from stating that Obama was born there; information on a birth certificate is self-reported. And I liked the quiet challenges, e.g., “You said ‘every’ birth certificate; exactly how many have you personally examined?”

    None of that even slightly changed the minds of any participant. And I doubt there was an undecided listener.

    Now it is the next day, and birthers are congratulating themselves for beating Doc in a debate. Meanwhile, Obama continues to be president, and will continue to be so until early 2017.

  9. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 17, 2015 at 2:07 pm #

    That may be, but I continue to be intrigued by the fact that there are around 10,000 users of this site every month, and of those 35-40% are “new visitors.”

    The definition of a “new visitor” is “a visitor who did not have Google Analytics cookies when they hit the first page in this visit. If a visitor deletes their cookies and comes back to the site, the visitor will be counted as a new visitor.”

    bob: None of that even slightly changed the minds of any participant. And I doubt there was an undecided listener.

  10. avatar
    Arthur B. October 17, 2015 at 2:38 pm #

    I’ve been following birtherism from the beginning, but this was the first time I listened to a Mike Volin show.

    Two observations:

    (1) Great job, Doc! Your patience and courtesy are staggering. You don’t come across as driven or compelled to win every point. But everything you say is relevant, calm, and factually correct.

    (2) This was my first exposure to Sarge! Who the hell is he? I imagine he’s been discussed before, but I’ve managed never to encounter anything about him.

  11. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 17, 2015 at 2:46 pm #

    I didn’t know Sarge either, but folks at The Fogbow were expecting him to show up.

    My favorite line from Sarge was when he said the PDF must be a fake because they didn’t have PDF files and personal computers in 1961.

    Arthur B.: This was my first exposure to Sarge! Who the hell is he? I imagine he’s been discussed before, but I’ve managed never to encounter anything about him.

  12. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater October 17, 2015 at 2:54 pm #

    Arthur B.:
    I’ve been following birtherism from the beginning, but this was the first time I listened to a Mike Volin show.

    Two observations:

    (1) Great job, Doc! Your patience and courtesy are staggering. You don’t come across as driven or compelled to win every point. But everything you say is relevant, calm, and factually correct.

    (2) This was my first exposure to Sarge! Who the hell is he? I imagine he’s been discussed before, but I’ve managed never to encounter anything about him.

    Sarge is an idiot. I’ve played with him in chat before. Last year he was all over Reality Check’s blog until RC challenged him to a debate on his terms. Sarge never returned.

  13. avatar
    bob October 17, 2015 at 2:56 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I didn’t know Sarge either, but folks at The Fogbow were expecting him to show up.

    He’s a regular on WOBC. Which made Doc’s appearance less interesting because I’ve heard Sarge do that routine before (when Doc wasn’t on). But the point wasn’t to listen to Doc, or even converse with him. Just the usual release of impotent birther rage.

    My favorite line from Sarge was when he said the PDF must be a fake because they didn’t have PDF files and personal computers in 1961.

    I’m impressed you heard that! Sarge’s LOUDER AND FASTER (and baroque) “debating” (read: yelling) gets rather unintelligible at times.

  14. avatar
    Arthur B. October 17, 2015 at 3:06 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:

    My favorite line from Sarge was when he said the PDF must be a fake because they didn’t have PDF files and personal computers in 1961.

    This is reminiscent of one of the very earliest birther howlers, one discussed at http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/not_born_in_hawaii/ of all places.

    In the lower left of the COLB, a notation says “OHSM 1.1 (Rev. 11/01) LASER”, which is of course a dead giveaway. There were no laser printers in 1961.

  15. avatar
    Andrew Vrba, PmG October 17, 2015 at 3:28 pm #

    I think what really made the inmates at BR mad, is that you were unflappable. There is nothing they hate more than a calm, rational opponent. The game is no fun for them, if they can’t make the other guy mad.

  16. avatar
    Jay October 17, 2015 at 4:21 pm #

    I don’t allow Google Analytics cookies, ever, so I suppose that means I am counted as a new visitor once for most of your posts. Not statistically significant as an isolated case, of course.

    Keep up the good work.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    That may be, but I continue to be intrigued by the fact that there are around 10,000 users of this site every month, and of those 35-40% are “new visitors.”

    The definition of a “new visitor” is “a visitor who did not have Google Analytics cookies when they hit the first page in this visit. If a visitor deletes their cookies and comes back to the site, the visitor will be counted as a new visitor.”

  17. avatar
    justlw October 17, 2015 at 5:12 pm #

    I’m also going to call [citation needed] on their characterization of this site as “controversial”. It is of course about a controversy, but the existence and operation of the site itself is about as controversial as nasa.gov .

    “Birfers don’t like it very much” != “controversial”

  18. avatar
    Dirk October 17, 2015 at 8:00 pm #

    If I understood you correctly, your claim is that the race box was filled with whatever term the parents declared.

    I’m absolutely convinced you’re right.

    Help me spread the truth, and substantiate your claim by posting several examples of early 1960’s Hawaiian birth certificates that use the term “African” as race qualifier.

    For credibility’s sake, without blacked out information on any part of the birth certificate, goes without saying.

    I look forward to seeing you unequivocally debunk this conspiracy that has gone on for far too long now.

    Best regards.

  19. avatar
    Reality Check October 17, 2015 at 8:24 pm #

    I maintain it was Volin’s intention was that Sarge turn Doc into a quivering bowl of jelly. Instead Sarge just appeared to be a loud mouthed idiot reading from a script of discredited garbage.

  20. avatar
    Reality Check October 17, 2015 at 8:37 pm #

    I think Sarge has been around since the Patriot Hearts Network days and Chalice. He is also a frequent caller to the Andrea Shea King show especially when she Birfs. I once called ASK and she let Sarge shout over me then cut me off the air.

    I think Sarge thought that was how things would work out last night. He had his prepared list of five or six items he was going to read without giving Doc a chance to answer. To Mike Volin’s credit he at least eventually let Doc answer although well beyond where Sarge should have been cut off. Sarge was clearly outclassed. Yes, the remark that PDFs didn’t exist in 1961 was hilarious.

    Arthur B.: 2) This was my first exposure to Sarge! Who the hell is he? I imagine he’s been discussed before, but I’ve managed never to encounter anything about him.

    I don’t think Sarge ever comment on my blog. I issued the challenge in the WOBC chat room.

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Sarge is an idiot. I’ve played with him in chat before. Last year he was all over Reality Check’s blog until RC challenged him to a debate on his terms. Sarge never returned

  21. avatar
    Reality Check October 17, 2015 at 8:40 pm #

    Grrr, typos.

    Reality Check:
    I maintain it was Volin’s intention that Sarge turn Doc into a quivering bowl of jelly. Instead Sarge just appeared to be a loud mouthed idiot reading from a script of discredited garbage.

  22. avatar
    Rickey October 17, 2015 at 11:26 pm #

    Did the name “Harrison Bounel” come up?

    It’s amazing, but not surprising. that so many birthers still do not comprehend the difference between a travel warning and a travel advisory.

    Incidentally, the State Department now gives travel warnings and travel alerts (alerts have apparently replaced advisories). For example, there is currently an alert about traveling in the South Pacific during tropical cyclone season.

  23. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 18, 2015 at 12:39 am #

    It is transparently obvious that you are lying when you say: “I’m absolutely convinced you’re right.” I have no patience with liars.

    Black parents were so rare in Hawaii in the early 1960’s that they didn’t even tabulate them separately–rather lumping them into the “other race” category (see 1961 Department of Health Annual Report Statistical Supplement). There may well not be any other children born at that time to an African parent, and in any case Hawaii doesn’t publish birth certificates for everyone to look at. So anyone with any sense at all knows your suggestion to publish other certificates with “African” is facetious. You raise an impossible challenge, and then think that there is something significant in it not being met. You may think your petty lie and proof gambit was clever, but I can assure you that it fools no one.

    That the parents’ race is whatever the parent says it is, is not a claim on my part, but a documented fact in the federal instructions (check out the instructions for the US Standard Birth Certificate on the CDC web site), and I have found certificates with other unusual race values (like “Hawaiian Fil Port Sp”), proving without a doubt that there is no standard list that must be used for the response. Even the 1961 coding manual for race lists “A A” (for Afro-American).

    This is old stuff, long documented, and long proven. It was unequivocally debunked years ago. The fact that birthers still drag out this canard just proves that they don’t have a clue and are too lazy to do any research for themselves. Your comment belies what Mike Volin said about just wanting the facts to be verified and put it all to rest. You have the facts, and you ignore them. More details in this article:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2012/07/the-african-race-the-final-chapter/

    Dirk:
    If I understood you correctly, your claim is that the race box was filled with whatever term the parents declared.

    I’m absolutely convinced you’re right.

    Help me spread the truth, and substantiate your claim by posting several examples of early 1960’s Hawaiian birth certificates that use the term “African” as race qualifier.

    For credibility’s sake, without blacked out information on any part of the birth certificate, goes without saying.

    I look forward to seeing you unequivocally debunk this conspiracy that has gone on for far too long now.

    Best regards.

  24. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 18, 2015 at 12:40 am #

    Not by name. I asked the question of whose SSN Obama appropriated, but it wasn’t answered.

    Rickey: Did the name “Harrison Bounel” come up?

  25. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater October 18, 2015 at 1:40 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That the parents’ race is whatever the parent says it is, is not a claim on my part, but a documented fact in the federal instructions (check out the instructions for the US Standard Birth Certificate on the CDC web site), and I have found certificates with other unusual race values (like “Hawaiian Fil Port Sp”), proving without a doubt that there is no standard list that must be used for the response. Even the 1961 coding manual for race lists “A A” (for Afro-American).

    Let’s not forget that the birther claim of approved races is contradicted by other certificates out there. According to them White is the only acceptable term for someone who is “white” yet many birth certificates that birthers hold up as being real have Caucasian on them instead of white.

  26. avatar
    bob October 18, 2015 at 3:30 am #

    Miki Booth. She has said that when she gave birth īn Hawaii, she completed the fields for race.

    But she’s part of the forgery team, so …. 😉

  27. avatar
    RanTalbott October 18, 2015 at 6:00 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: That may be, but I continue to be intrigued by the fact that there are around 10,000 users of this site every month, and of those 35-40% are “new visitors.”

    It’s a rare day that I don’t post at least one link to an article here when whacking a birfoon mole, and I’m sure there are others who do, too. That will generate some traffic from lurkers in those threads who hadn’t been here before. It probably also bumps you up in Google’s rankings (all the “web traffic generation” consultants claim that links from off-site improve your score), so you’ll get some first-time traffic directly from them.

    Do you get reports on the referring URL (or, at least, the site)? That might give you some hints on what’s driving new visitors.

    Maybe the birfoons are using anonymizers, to make sure they don’t get arrested when the new GOP president does the Great Obot Roundup™ 😉

  28. avatar
    Reality Check October 18, 2015 at 7:04 am #

    I suppose this means that unless someone can find examples of other Hawaiian birth certificates with “Hawn-Caucasian-Chinese” and “Hawn-Caucasian-Korean” in the race field the Ah’nee birth certificate is a forgery also?

    Dirk: I look forward to seeing you unequivocally debunk this conspiracy that has gone on for far too long now.

    Best regards.

  29. avatar
    Reality Check October 18, 2015 at 7:23 am #

    There was a lot of silence on Mike Volin’s part when it came to answering questions.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Not by name. I asked the question of whose SSN Obama appropriated, but it wasn’t answered.

  30. avatar
    Curious George October 18, 2015 at 8:21 am #

    Reality Check
    October 18, 2015

    “There was a lot of silence on Mike Volin’s part when it came to answering questions.”

    So much silence it was rather awkward. Volin knows enough about the various birther claims that he should have had a one on one discussion with Doc. I think by giving a certain caller the birther soap box, Volin really did a disservice to his listeners. At the very least, Volin could have devoted the first hour to a one on one discussion with his guest and then open the line for calls. Doc handled the situation very well, despite Volin’s apparent script. Mr. Volin should listen to a few of RC’s programs for some examples of how to treat guests with respect. I think Mr. Volin missed out on a great opportunity to show his listeners that he really wanted to learn the truth. Mr. Volin, you really could have done better.

  31. avatar
    Jon Beck October 18, 2015 at 9:25 am #

    The real world could not be better represented by anyone. Job well done Doc, thanks for having the courage to take a trip into that intellectual black hole.

  32. avatar
    HistorianDude October 18, 2015 at 10:42 am #

    Dirk: Help me spread the truth, and substantiate your claim by posting several examples of early 1960’s Hawaiian birth certificates that use the term “African” as race qualifier.

    An absurd challenge, given that would require somebody here to 1) have access to a large number (if not all) of Hawaii’s birth certificates, and 2) that they could get the approval of those individuals to post them unredacted online, and 3) that there was a large enough number of actual Africans having children in Hawaii who self declare in that same manner.

    But it’s easy to do the next best set of things. Here for example is Hawaiian birth certificate in which the father’ race is noted as “American.” This neatly undercuts just about every imaginary birther assertion of some sort of “standard” list of races from which the BC entry was derived:

    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~bryajw/HardestyPhotos/Keala%20Hardesty%20birth%20certificate.jpg

    Here is a Hawaiian birth certificate for which both “Caucasian” and “White” appear on the same certificate proving again that there was no standard “list” of races:

    http://s305.photobucket.com/user/Polarik/media/doc_decosta_pat_birth-i.gif.html

    And finally, here is where the State of Hawaii DoH themselves assert that parents self identify their races:

    Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn’t tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama’s father’s race listed as “African”? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father’s race and mother’s race are supplied by the parents, and that “we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be.”

    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

  33. avatar
    gorefan October 18, 2015 at 11:33 am #

    Dirk: I look forward to seeing you unequivocally debunk this conspiracy that has gone on for far too long now.

    According to birthers (like you) Hawaii DOH would never have allowed the term “African” to appear as the race of a parent.

    So prove you are correct. produce a Hawaiian 1961 birth certificate where one of the parents’ place of birth was a country in Africa and their race is listed as Negro.

    I look forward to seeing you unequivocally debunk this birther conspiracy that has gone on for far too long now.

    Best regards.

  34. avatar
    Curious George October 18, 2015 at 12:49 pm #

    gorefan to Dirk

    “So prove you are correct. produce a Hawaiian 1961 birth certificate where one of the parents’ place of birth was a country in Africa and their race is listed as Negro.”

    We’re waiting for your response, Dirk.

  35. avatar
    Rickey October 18, 2015 at 12:57 pm #

    I suspect that “Dirk” is another sock puppet for long-time birther troll Sven Magnussen.

  36. avatar
    wrecking ball October 18, 2015 at 1:00 pm #

    Curious George:
    Volin knows enough about the various birther claims …..

    i found it interesting that volin claimed that savannah guthrie was the only one allowed to examine the LFBC but, after doc brought up the second photo, volin said he was aware of the photo.

  37. avatar
    gorefan October 18, 2015 at 1:15 pm #

    Rickey:
    I suspect that “Dirk” is another sock puppet for long-time birther troll Sven Magnussen.

    Dirk Derdorin retwits Alexander Hamilton twits in the Twitter feed. Both spout Sven nonsense in their twits. So I think you are correct.

  38. avatar
    Nancy R Owens October 18, 2015 at 1:18 pm #

    Like Trump, Sarge sounds pretty sincere to me, RC. I’ve listened to many of his Sarge’s shows throughout the past few years.

    Reality Check: WOBC

  39. avatar
    Pete October 18, 2015 at 1:50 pm #

    Rickey:
    I suspect that “Dirk” is another sock puppet for long-time birther troll Sven Magnussen.

    Is Sven a troll, or an idiot? I can’t make up my mind.

  40. avatar
    Pete October 18, 2015 at 3:25 pm #

    Congratulations to Mr. Volin for honoring his representations to Dr C.

  41. avatar
    wrecking ball October 18, 2015 at 3:31 pm #

    Pete:
    Congratulations to Mr. Volin for honoring his representations to Dr C.

    agreed, altho i think he could have done more to keep “sarge” to task in asking a direct question instead of going on a rant.

    i’d love to see volin return the favor and do an interview on this site with doc ( prob with a moderated comments section ).

  42. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater October 18, 2015 at 3:59 pm #

    wrecking ball: agreed, altho i think he could have done more to keep “sarge” to task in asking a direct question instead of going on a rant.

    i’d love to see volin return the favor and do an interview on this site with doc ( prob with a moderated comments section ).

    We could always have him on RC radio. But I suspect we would be more fair to him allowing him an hour of one on one with the hosts before bringing callers on.

  43. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 18, 2015 at 4:32 pm #

    I don’t think that the style matches. Also from the email address Dirk left, I don’t think that he is Sven.

    Rickey: I suspect that “Dirk” is another sock puppet for long-time birther troll Sven Magnussen.

  44. avatar
    gorefan October 18, 2015 at 5:25 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t think that the style matches. Also from the email address Dirk left, I don’t think that he is Sven.

    On Twitter

    Dirk Derdorian is described as – “Hospitality Consultant. Food and Beverage Consigliere. Convention Promotion/Management.” His website is conventionforamerica

    Alex Hamilton is described as – “Executive consultant for convention services, marketing, and promotion.” His website is conventionforamerica.

    On October 17 Alex Hamilton tweeted – “The @FBI interviewed @POTUS Obama in the @WhiteHouse on 08/18/14 on order of USDC on eligibilty. O admitted it and Court dismissed. #birther”

    On Orly’s website, Sven wrote – “Obama was interviewed by the FBI in the White House on Aug. 18, 2014. Obama admitted to the FBI he was ineligible to be POTUS after naturalizing as a US citizen on Sept. 16, 1983.”

    Coincidence?

  45. avatar
    Reality Check October 18, 2015 at 6:57 pm #

    Kerchner, Robby G. (Falcon), and Charlesmountain have really come unglued over Doc’s appearance on WOBC. The comments at BR are fun reading.

  46. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 18, 2015 at 7:01 pm #

    I can’t wait for Dr. Deb C’s reply to my saying she writes like “trailer trash.”

    Reality Check: Kerchner, Robby G. (Falcon), and Charlesmountain have really come unglued over Doc’s appearance on WOBC. The comments at BR are fun reading.

  47. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 18, 2015 at 7:51 pm #

    I think Kerchner is about ready to declare Herb Titus the author of the US Constitution.

    Reality Check: Kerchner, Robby G. (Falcon), and Charlesmountain have really come unglued over Doc’s appearance on WOBC. The comments at BR are fun reading.

  48. avatar
    Joey October 18, 2015 at 7:59 pm #

    Dirk:
    If I understood you correctly, your claim is that the race box was filled with whatever term the parents declared.

    I’m absolutely convinced you’re right.

    Help me spread the truth, and substantiate your claim by posting several examples of early 1960’s Hawaiian birth certificates that use the term “African” as race qualifier.

    For credibility’s sake, without blacked out information on any part of the birth certificate, goes without saying.

    I look forward to seeing you unequivocally debunk this conspiracy that has gone on for far too long now.

    Best regards.

    In 2008 the Hawaii Department of Health stated that the racial designation of the parents was self-selected.
    Here’s a link to that quote. If you don’t want to read the entire article, scroll down to the bottom to the “Update” and look for the quote from Kurt Tsue:

    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/08/born-in-the-usa/

  49. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy October 18, 2015 at 8:08 pm #

    So how do you get that our Dirk is Derdorian? I might also mention that Dirk’s IP address is from outside the United States (could be a proxy I guess).

    I give myself about a 70% chance that I have identified Dirk’s real name and his Facebook page (that has no US political content). If I have identified him correctly, his name is Dirk.

    gorefan: On Twitter

    Dirk Derdorian is described as

  50. avatar
    Rickey October 18, 2015 at 8:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I don’t think that the style matches. Also from the email address Dirk left, I don’t think that he is Sven.

    It could be a coincidence, but Dirk showed up here shortly after Dirk Dedorian and Alex Hamilton started tweeting the same crackpot theories that Sven posted here – the Constitution has been voided, Obama was adopted, the courts won’t rule on Obama’s eligibility because the judges would lost their jobs, etc.

  51. avatar
    gorefan October 18, 2015 at 8:53 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I think Kerchner is about ready to declare Herb Titus the author of the US Constitution.

    He should read Titus’ amicus brief in Rudy v. Lee. He says there are only two types of citizen – natural born and naturalized.

    Unquestionably, there are two distinct classes of citizenship, “first, by birth, and second, by naturalization.” Minor v. Happensett, 88 U.S. 162,167 (1874). See also Miller v. Albright, 523 U.S. 420,423 (1998) (“There are ‘two sources of citizenship and two only: birth and naturalization.’ United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702 … (1898)”). These two classes are distinguished both politically and legally in (i) the “natural born Citizen” requirement of Article II, Section 1, Clause 5, and (ii) the grant of power to Congress “to establish a uniform rule of naturalization” in Article I, Section 8, Clause 4. See Minor at 167″

    And he all but declares Wong Kim Ark to be binding precedent that the SCOTUS would have to overturn to declare President Obama to be ineligible.

    “It is not necessary at this point to decide whether President Obama is a natural born citizen. Nor is it necessary now to endorse Justice Gray’s views over those of dissenting Chief Justice Fuller, or vice versa. Indeed, Mr. Rudy’s case against President Obama’s citizenship is based upon both views — that he is not a natural born citizen based either on his place of birth, or on the citizenship of his parents.”

    And while he discusses Minor v. Happersett, he never does mention it is binding precedent for the definition of natural born citizen.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/236848031/Rudy-v-Lee-USJF-Amicus-Brief-2#scribd

  52. avatar
    gorefan October 18, 2015 at 8:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So how do you get that our Dirk is Derdorian?

    Like Rickey – the coincidence of names – Dirk

    Dirk Derdorian, Alex Hamilton are almost certainly Sven.

  53. avatar
    Reality Check October 19, 2015 at 8:32 am #

    It’s really amazing how a small dose of truth administered by Doc agitated these morons at BR. Robby G. Falcon, Dr. Debdumb, Rambo, Charlesmountain and Kerchner are all frothing at the mouths.

  54. avatar
    Reality Check October 19, 2015 at 11:18 am #

    BR has yet another article triggered by Doc’s appearance on Volin’s show. This time it’s a feeble attempt by an anonymous Volin listener to explain why the African race could not have been correct. I thought Volin didn’t allow people to be anonymous?

    http://www.birtherreport.com/2015/10/feedback-still-probable-cause-for.html

  55. avatar
    gorefan October 19, 2015 at 11:46 am #

    Reality Check: frothing at the mouths.

    BR must love it. It is the first article to get that many responses in a long time.

  56. avatar
    Pete October 19, 2015 at 12:55 pm #

    There’s some seriously unhinged unhingement going on over there.

    I mean, I’ve seen certified guano that was less bats**t than those people.

  57. avatar
    Reality Check October 19, 2015 at 1:34 pm #

    Their articles get a fair number of response. It’s just that they rarely if ever have anything to do with the subject latter of the articles.

    gorefan: BR must love it. It is the first article to get that many responses in a long time.

  58. avatar
    bob October 19, 2015 at 2:04 pm #

    He, Lucas Daniel Smith, offers his review of the interview. Smith says it was generally not thought provoking or attention grabbing. Smith said nothing specific about Doc.

    Smith did comment that Sarge spoke with the “verbiage of [a] jail-house lawyer.” An observation interesting on many levels.

  59. avatar
    RanTalbott October 19, 2015 at 10:46 pm #

    Reality Check: Their articles get a fair number of response. It’s just that they rarely if ever have anything to do with the subject latter of the articles.

    Which is to say that they’re not really “responses”: more like “graffiti”, or “handbills”.

    It used to be routine for comment counts to hit triple digits, now that’s approaching “rare”.

    Both the quantity and average relevance have been declining. Unless the story includes someone like Doc to inspire a Two Minutes Hate, the comments are likely to mostly consist of a few regular loons diffidently posting unrelated conspiracy theories, and a few stragglers whining about the continuing failure to arrive of The Great Frogmarching™

    It’s not really BR’s fault: it’s tough to maintain enthusiasm when the stream of news on your site’s topic consists of long stretches of “none” with occasional punctuations of “bad”. But let’s not give them credit for more life than they’re really showing.

  60. avatar
    Reality Check October 19, 2015 at 10:55 pm #

    I think some of the funniest comments at BR are the ones defending the Sheriff’s Kits. The Sheriff’s Kit is the very definition of failure. Volin is too hard headed to admit it and the doting morons at BR follow right along. They have literally mailed out thousands of these stupid DVD’s that are nothing more that Zullo’s two failed pressers that anyone could download from the Internet. The number of responses is exactly zero.

    BTW Mike, we are still waiting on Sheriff’s Kit v2 with the Universe Shattering Evidence.

  61. avatar
    Rickey October 19, 2015 at 11:51 pm #

    bob:
    He, Lucas Daniel Smith, offers his review of the interview.Smith says it was generally not thought provoking or attention grabbing.Smith said nothing specific about Doc.

    Smith did comment that Sarge spoke with the “verbiage of [a] jail-house lawyer.”An observation interesting on many levels.

    Lucas does have experience with jailhouses.

  62. avatar
    Lupin October 20, 2015 at 3:22 am #

    RanTalbott: Which is to say that they’re not really “responses”: more like “graffiti”, or “handbills”.

    It used to be routine for comment counts to hit triple digits, now that’s approaching “rare”.

    Both the quantity and average relevance have been declining. Unless the story includes someone like Doc to inspire a Two Minutes Hate, the comments are likely to mostly consist of a few regular loons diffidently posting unrelated conspiracy theories, and a few stragglers whining about the continuing failure to arrive of The Great Frogmarching™

    It’s not really BR’s fault: it’s tough to maintain enthusiasm when the stream of news on your site’s topic consists of long stretches of “none” with occasional punctuations of “bad”. But let’s not give them credit for more life than they’re really showing.

    The policy of the Site Fuhrer to censor even the most remote deviation from the party line (except for Doc who seems to have been giving a blank check) doesn’t help.

    Last week I posted message regarding the GOP smart money moving from Jeb! to Rubio and he deleted that!

  63. avatar
    bovril October 20, 2015 at 5:42 am #

    There is a certain schizophrenia in what does and does not escape ‘moderation’ over there. I did, some time ago, attempt to model the rule base with a set of textually slightly different posts with content varying between caustic to fawning and through a range of IP addresses.

    The consistency was so, well, inconsistent that I came to the view that there are at least 2, possibly 3 admin/moderators with quite different views on acceptable right speak.

    What would be interesting to me would be seeing what ‘regular’ posters like BSE, FALCON and drdebdrdeb can get away with before getting the posts pulled. Just what is too bad/mad for Birfoon Report from the bottom feeders….?