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Arrests at Birther Report imminent?

Claims are that the government is arresting people for anti-Obama comments on the Internet

I picked this story up from Robert C. Laity’s Facebook page, that Obama had a Marine arrested for anti-Obama comments on Facebook. I found many similar stories all over the Internet. The FBI program cited in these stories (Operation Vigilant Eagle) exists to identify and prevent violent attacks from white supremacists and militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.

It is true that a former Marine named Brandon Raub was committed in 2012 (yeah, three years ago) after local law enforcement believed that he was a threat to himself and others, after he posted violent threats on Facebook

John Whitehead, writing at The Rutherford Institute (the source for many of the Internet copycat stories), said: “In the four years since the start of Operation Vigilant Eagle, the government has steadily ramped up its campaign to ‘silence’ dissidents, especially those with military backgrounds.” He was able to cite only one instance, the Raub case, in support of the “steadily ramped up” claim. (PS: He mentions Hitler.)

Whitehead and many of the conspiracist articles quote “journalist” Anthony Martin who describes a mental health diagnosis called “oppositional defiance disorder” (ODD) in a way that makes it sound like political dissent1. The actual condition is called “oppositional defiant disorder” and it applies to children and teens with (according to the Mayo clinic), a “persistent pattern of anger, irritability, arguing, defiance towards [parents] and other authority figures.” The original Anthony Martin article appeared at Examiner.com in 2012.

Read more:


1“denotes that the person exhibits ‘symptoms’ such as the questioning of authority, the refusal to follow directions, stubbornness, the unwillingness to go along with the crowd, and the practice of disobeying or ignoring orders. Persons may also receive such a label if they are considered free thinkers, nonconformists, or individuals who are suspicious of large, centralized government… At one time the accepted protocol among mental health professionals was to reserve the diagnosis of oppositional defiance disorder for children or adolescents who exhibited uncontrollable defiance toward their parents and teachers.”

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54 Responses to Arrests at Birther Report imminent?

  1. avatar
    Nancy R Owens November 30, 2015 at 9:56 am #

    I’m not saying this isn’t happening. But, when it comes to “BirtherReport,” they’ve banned so many people with legitimate birther content that I think it’s more along the lines of “Obstruction Of Justice.” I’ve been banned for well over a year now.

    http://iforgedobamasbirthcertificates.weebly.com/

  2. avatar
    Curious George November 30, 2015 at 10:56 am #

    By Anthony Martin:
    Posted on Rutherford with a link to the Examiner.

    https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/tri_in_the_news/veterans_quietly_forced_into_mental_hospitals

  3. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 30, 2015 at 11:37 am #

    OK, thanks. Different Anthony Martin. Article updated.

    Curious George:
    By Anthony Martin:
    Posted on Rutherford with a link to the Examiner.

    https://www.rutherford.org/publications_resources/tri_in_the_news/veterans_quietly_forced_into_mental_hospitals

  4. avatar
    Joey November 30, 2015 at 12:57 pm #

    Uniform Code Of Military Justice
    Article 88—Contempt toward officials

    “Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

    Elements.
    (1) That the accused was a commissioned officer of the United States armed forces;

    (2) That the accused used certain words against an official or legislature named in the article;

    (3) That by an act of the accused these words came to the knowledge of a person other than the accused; and

    (4) That the words used were contemptuous, either in themselves or by virtue of the circumstances under which they were used. Note: If the words were against a Governor or legislature, add the following element

    (5) That the accused was then present in the State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the Governor or legislature concerned.

  5. avatar
    CRJ November 30, 2015 at 2:30 pm #

    @joey Yes, the military understands Order
    [4 words..3 words..2…words]

    Chewing their tongue-n-cheek out maybe the toughest work they do to stay silent.
    The silence 1 to 22 is perhaps the loudest word we will hear.

    http://taskandpurpose.com/truth-22-veteran-suicides-day/

    I know the silence of 1 Word and how misunderstandings can make people mad and angry. So mad and angry they wanna bury ya in a hole for 8 years in a Land of Freedom and Liberty.

    @Doc Why go to the KKK?
    Arresting people for ineligibility questions about Obama is just silly.. They flat out put Terry Lakin in prison and stripped him of 18 years of service for the question of simply confirmation Obama was a [natural born Citizen

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RTERVtZzRR8

  6. avatar
    Terry K. November 30, 2015 at 2:41 pm #

    I wrote about the Brandon Raub case on my website (because WND promoted it):

    http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/index.blog/2357201/at-wnd-threatening-violence-is-freethinking/

    The gist of the story is that Raub (represented by the Rutherford Institute) contended his rights were violated when his threatening Facebook posts were brought to the attention of authorities and he involuntarily spent a few days in a psychiatric unit being evaluated before a judge ultimately freed him. But it was Raub’s fellow Marines who alerted authorities. The case is back in the right-wing news because SCOTUS refused to take Rutherford’s appeal of an lower court ruling that Raub’s rights weren’t violated.

  7. avatar
    J.D. Reed November 30, 2015 at 3:03 pm #

    CRJ as usual misstates the facts. Refusing a lawful order to report for duty in a combat zone is not SIMPLY questioning the president’s citizenship. CRJ is right less often than a broken clock.

  8. avatar
    bob November 30, 2015 at 3:08 pm #

    J.D. Reed:
    CRJ as usual misstates the facts. Refusing a lawful order to report for duty in a combat zone is not SIMPLY questioning the president’s citizenship. CRJ is right less often than a broken clock.

    In addition to being wrong about why Lakin was imprisioned, Judy is also wrong about his own imprisonment: Judy was sent to prison because his actions terrorized thousands. And Judy continues to be unapologetic about that.

  9. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater November 30, 2015 at 3:18 pm #

    CRJ: Arresting people for ineligibility questions about Obama is just silly.. They flat out put Terry Lakin in prison and stripped him of 18 years of service for the question of simply confirmation Obama was a [natural born Citizen

    No they put him in prison for missing movement. Even Terri Lakin admitted in court he was wrong, his orders were valid and he was bound to follow them.

  10. avatar
    Joey November 30, 2015 at 3:31 pm #

    CRJ:
    @joey Yes, the military understands Order
    [4 words..3 words..2…words]

    Chewing their tongue-n-cheek out maybe the toughest work they do to stay silent.
    The silence 1 to 22 is perhaps the loudest word we will hear.

    http://taskandpurpose.com/truth-22-veteran-suicides-day/

    I know the silence of 1 Word and how misunderstandings can make people mad and angry. So mad and angry they wanna bury ya in a hole for 8 years in a Land of Freedom and Liberty.

    @Doc Why go to the KKK?
    Arresting people for ineligibility questions about Obama is just silly.. They flat out put Terry Lakin in prison and stripped him of 18 years of service for the question of simply confirmation Obama was a [natural born Citizen

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RTERVtZzRR8

    Lieutenant Colonel Terry Lakin pleaded guilty to violating article 92 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) (failing to meet with a superior officer and failing to report to duty at Fort Campbell), and he pleaded not guilty to violating article 87 of the UCMJ (missing a flight on which he was required).

    Facing up to 3.5 years in military prison and dismissal from the Army, Lakin changed tack and stated that he was wrong to question the president’s qualifications through his military service. He requested that the jury, composed entirely of Lieutenant Colonels, allow him to continue his career in the military (“I don’t want it to end this way, I want to continue to serve”), and that he would now undertake his deployment if he could, even with his concerns about the president unaddressed. The defense brought witnesses before the court to testify on Lakin’s behalf, describing the accused as a “compassionate physician” who always volunteered to help when needed. The prosecution introduced the officer that was deployed in Lakin’s stead, who testified alongside his wife about how the last-minute deployment affected their lives.

    Lakin was found guilty of all charges. After five hours of deliberation, the jury sentenced him to six months in a military prison and dismissal from the Army, the sentence was approved by Major General Karl Horst.

  11. avatar
    Joey November 30, 2015 at 3:37 pm #

    It should be remembered that the superior officer that Lieutenant Colonel Terry Lakin refused to meet with to discuss missing movement was a winner of the Medal of Honor, Colonel Gordon Ray “Bird Dog” Roberts.
    Colonel Roberts testified at the Lakin court martial that when he called Terry Latin to ask why he hadn’t shown up as ordered, Lakin responded “you had your chance.”

  12. avatar
    Rickey November 30, 2015 at 7:13 pm #

    CRJ:

    Arresting people for ineligibility questions about Obama is just silly.. They flat out put Terry Lakin in prison and stripped him of 18 years of service for the question of simply confirmation Obama was a [natural born Citizen

    Lakin wasn’t court-martialed for questioning Obama’s eligibility. He was court-martialed because he disobeyed orders and refused to deploy to a combat zone with his unit.

    You never served in the military, so perhaps you don’t comprehend how serious his offense was. He left his unit without a qualified combat surgeon. A doctor from another unit had to cut his leave short and return to combat months before he was scheduled to do so. Lakin’s conduct was reprehensible, and he actually got off lightly. He’s lucky that he still has a medical license.

  13. avatar
    Curious George November 30, 2015 at 7:42 pm #

    Doc,
    “OK, thanks. Different Anthony Martin. Article updated.”

    Happy to help.

  14. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 30, 2015 at 7:51 pm #

    He does? I thought Kansas (?) had refused him.

    Rickey: He’s lucky that he still has a medical license.

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 30, 2015 at 7:55 pm #

    But he could have been.

    UCMJ Article 88, makes it a crime for an officer to use contemptuous words against the president, the vice president, Congress, the secretary of defense, the secretary of a military department, the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, or the governor or legislature of any state, territory, commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present.

    Rickey: Lakin wasn’t court-martialed for questioning Obama’s eligibility.

  16. avatar
    bob November 30, 2015 at 9:50 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    He does? I thought Kansas (?) had refused him.

    Kansas did refuse him. But Lakin is licensed (and practicing) in Colorado now.

  17. avatar
    CRJ November 30, 2015 at 11:36 pm #

    @Bob [Lakin is licensed (and practicing) in Colorado now]

    That’s good to hear. Totally understand the idea that started Lakin’s Trouble was simply Obama’s Ineligibility. I’m just saying if I were President, there is nothing about my qualifications that I wouldn’t be happy to turn over if it meant keeping a man with a family out of Prison.. That’s all. Obama obviously is a lot more willing to destroy your whole life and your families over his credentials as qualified under the Constitution. I think it’s sad. .and just an example of arrogance.

    Which is why, yes, Lakin technically crossed the line, but Obama makes Mr. Trump look like a humble altar boy in the choir if arrogance were contrast. You guys may have stoned the women caught in adultery but Jesus didn’t. He helped her understand his authority and then did not condemn her to the punishment.

    Obama missed a BIG CHANCE to gain the love and admiration of the Military there by showing some greater character. . I suppose you would have to have to show it though. Must not have been a teleprompter around.

    Woooowee! I’m really starting to wish Sen Cruz gets his ineligible elephant a*s bitch slapped about as much as you guys wanting a Presidential Declaration from Obama that he’s Eligible. Hey., cuz most Criminals are Democrats.

    [ http://politistick.com/ted-cruz-just-launched-an-amazing-cruz-missile-on-democrats-that-has-got-to-cause-pain/ ]

    You know Jesus had the sense that he’s people are going to, and do make mistakes. That was no reason though to hate them for the rest of their life. .or torment them like Bob torments me about the freight paid in full years ago… (😂) Decades Ago.

    You see that’s the difference I see in Democrats and Republicans. .and that’s why I am tore up about the reputation Democrats have gotten under Obama. Its so sad. I mean really sad.

    Democrats need a purging as bad as the Dallas Cowboys. Their cheer leaders are fine, but that’s about it.

    Maybe you guys are indifferent to anything that’s happening in America.. But HRC is not inspiring our Nation. It’s a wreck.. America is seeing nooooothing from HRC because it wouldn’t matter of she was giving cars away she’s an Establishment Example of Cronism. . that’s not inspiring.

    You know why I’m over here? ❤ ” I Believe in You”
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7d-FcfeCPlI

  18. avatar
    Andy December 1, 2015 at 12:02 am #

    That is an idiotic statement. Mr. Lakin made his choices. Obama had no part of any action taken by Mr. Lakin.

    Are you going to blame your incarceration on Obama, too? Because he didn’t pardon you? Your actions, like Mr. Lakin’s, led you to be punished for your crimes.

    At least Mr. Lakin had the balls to admit his mistake.

    That’s good to hear. Totally understand the idea that started Lakin’s Trouble was simply Obama’s Ineligibility. I’m just saying if I were President, there is nothing about my qualifications that I wouldn’t be happy to turn over if it meant keeping a man with a family out of Prison.. That’s all. Obama obviously is a lot more willing to destroy your whole life and your families over his credentials as qualified under the Constitution. I think it’s sad. .and just an example of arrogance.

  19. avatar
    John Reilly December 1, 2015 at 12:15 am #

    Joey: It should be remembered that the superior officer that Lieutenant Colonel Terry Lakin refused to meet with to discuss missing movement was a winner of the Medal of Honor, Colonel Gordon Ray “Bird Dog” Roberts.

    Joey: A minor quibble. You cannot “win” a Congressional Medal of Honor. It is awarded. It is not a competition.

  20. avatar
    CRJ December 1, 2015 at 12:19 am #

    @Andy [That is an idiotic statement. Mr. Lakin made his choices. Obama had no part of any action taken by Mr. Lakin.]

    No it’s not. Terry Lakin was and is no stupid idiot. I don’t know if you took a gander at that video, but he’s pretty decorated tree.
    To not say OBAMA’S NON TRANSPARENCY has everything to do with Lakin’s decision to disobey orders would just cockn your head up a fartn pigeon.

    What?

    Believe it or not 43 Presidents. Everyone met the Definition qualification of

    1-Citizen of a State at the Time of the Adoption of the Constitution
    Or
    2- BORN in the U.S. to Citizen Parents

    Accept for Obama. . dual citizenship. One from Kenya through his Father One from U.S. his mother. That definition is in TITLE X ALIENS and NATIONAL subsection 1401 (a- h )

    that’s an ACT OF CONGRESS called naturalization.

    Lakin wasn’t dumb..neithers Congress, and neither is Obama. He just wasn’t in the Croynism Congress was into ie. U.S. Sen Res. 511 and Obama is smooth as Twiced Cooked Beef. That’s polished. He’s good.. real slick.

    Lakins more like me. Willing to take one for the Team. That’s called sacrifice and it’s unselfish. That’s what Jesus did. Some People call it stupid.. We know different. Its smarter in the long run.

  21. avatar
    bob December 1, 2015 at 12:59 am #

    CRJ:
    That’s good to hear.

    The Kansas medical board denied Lakin a license specifically because Lakin put soldiers in harm’s way by forcing a less-ready doctor to serve due that pointless stunt. Kansas had it right.

    Totally understand the idea that started Lakin’s Trouble was simply Obama’s Ineligibility.

    What started Lakin’s trouble was his stupidy in believing this nonsense.

    Lakin threw away his military career and pension, and also went to prison, over a fantasy. That’s a bedrock example of stupidity.

    I’m just saying if I were President

    Which Judy will never be.

    there is nothing about my qualifications that I wouldn’t be happy to turn over

    Yet Judy fails to turn over his original IFP application that he filed with SCOTUS.

    if it meant keeping a man with a family out of Prison..

    This “family man” went to prison because his disobeyed orders. And Lakin admitted he disobeyed orders.

    Obama obviously is a lot more willing to destroy your whole life and your families over his credentials as qualified under the Constitution. I think it’s sad. .and just an example of arrogance.

    Arrogance is Judy claiming to know President Obama’s motives.

    Lakin technically crossed the line

    Which is why Lakin was “technically” guilty, and “technically” went to prison. Technically.

    You guys may have stoned the women caught in adultery but Jesus didn’t. He helped her understand his authority and then did not condemn her to the punishment.

    I can’t tell if Judy is comparing himself or Trump to Jesus, both of which are completely offensive.

    Obama missed a BIG CHANCE to gain the love and admiration of the Military there by showing some greater character.

    Military personnel donated more money to President Obama than they did to Romney. Guess that’s sufficient love and admiration gained.

    I’m really starting to wish Sen Cruz gets his ineligible elephant a*s bitch slapped about as much as you guys wanting a Presidential Declaration from Obama that he’s Eligible.

    Nobody here expects a declaration from President Obama.

    Hey., cuz most Criminals are Democrats.

    Judy would know.

    You know Jesus had the sense that he’s people are going to, and do make mistakes. That was no reason though to hate them for the rest of their life. .or torment them like Bob torments me about the freight paid in full years ago…

    Forgiveness requires admitting a mistake. And not constantly lying about it, like Judy does.

    BORN in the U.S. to Citizen Parents

    Birth in the United States is sufficient to confer natural-born citizenship, regardless of how many times Judy lies about it. (And lying is a sin.)

    Lakins more like me.

    Delusional birther convict? Check, check, and check.

    That’s called sacrifice and it’s unselfish. That’s what Jesus did.

    Shirking military duty is the opposite of sacrifice and unselfishness.

    And, unlike Judy, Jesus was humble and had humility.

  22. avatar
    John Reilly December 1, 2015 at 1:18 am #

    But for the fact that I’m pro-life, I would have taken Lakin out and had him shot. He was a deserter as far as I’m concerned.

    And Mr. Judy remains a domestic terrorist. Convicted of threatening to blow up a church meeting. We need not worry about Syrian refugees. The Judy’s here in this country are a bigger threat. As the events in Colorado Springs proved.

  23. avatar
    Keith December 1, 2015 at 1:19 am #

    CRJ: I’m just saying if I were President, there is nothing about my qualifications that I wouldn’t be happy to turn over

    The President has “turned over” more information about his qualifications that any other President or Candidate in history.

    Nothing in the President’s possession or power to access would have made any difference to Lakin’s case whatever. Lakin plead guilty to disobeying a lawful direct order and missing a movie that uncharitable minds would consider equivalent to desertion in the face of the enemy – which has been known to cost people their life.

    Where is your derision for those who suborned Lakin into taking this career ending act? The guys that hypnotised him into thinking he actually had a chance – you know the guys that abandoned him the instant the scam went south and they stopped getting Paypal hits?

    Furthermore, there is nothing he could “turn over” that would satisfy you.

  24. avatar
    Keith December 1, 2015 at 1:27 am #

    John Reilly: And Mr. Judy remains a domestic terrorist. Convicted of threatening to blow up a church meeting. We need not worry about Syrian refugees. The Judy’s here in this country are a bigger threat. As the events in Colorado Springs proved.

    Planned Parenthood Shooter Killed More Than Any Supposed Refugee Terrorist

    The loner who allegedly killed three people at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado last week committed a deadlier act of terrorism than any attributed to a refugee in the United States in the past three and a half decades.

  25. avatar
    Lupin December 1, 2015 at 3:12 am #

    CRJ: 2- BORN in the U.S. to Citizen Parents

    In proper English — which, I know, is like ancient Aramaic to you — this correctly means that EITHER parent must be a citizen, not BOTH.

    Yes, I know this must come as a shock, but it is nevertheless the truth.

    Perhaps learning proper English should be the first step in your rehabilitation process?

    Since Obama was born to an American citizen mother on US soil (Hawai) he perfectly meets the requirement. QED.

  26. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) December 1, 2015 at 4:41 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: But he could have been.

    UCMJ Article 88, makes it a crime for an officer to use contemptuous words against the president

    While I’m not defending Lakin, the scenario that he believed (or pretended to believe) he was in was sort of a vicious circle.
    Because if questioning whether the President is the President is forbidden, you can never get to the point where one could check whether the President is the President. That’s pretty much how birthers understood one judge’s statement (which of course wasn’t his legal argument) that Obama is the President because he resides at the White House.
    Again, I’m not defending that notion, just explaining how it appears to someone whose mind is locked into the belief that the President is ineligible.
    I’m still not sure whether Lakin was a true believer, a propagandist who thought he had perfect standing to promote the Obama swiftboating, or a tool (in both senses of the word) who was simply used by people way more cunning than him.

  27. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 1, 2015 at 6:37 am #

    CRJ: That’s good to hear. Totally understand the idea that started Lakin’s Trouble was simply Obama’s Ineligibility. I’m just saying if I were President, there is nothing about my qualifications that I wouldn’t be happy to turn over if it meant keeping a man with a family out of Prison.

    Except of course that’s nonsense. Birthers aren’t reasonable people. There is nothing obama could have turned over that would have proved eligibility to nutcases like yourself. Lakin’s own brother admitted on the Andrea Shea King show that terry couldn’t even get a long form birth certificate at the time for his own daughter that was born in Hawaii. The valid legal birth certificate that hawaii uses has been available since 2008. The long form is no longer the accepted format. Once again Obama’s credentials had nothing to do with lakin’s imprisonment. Lakin’s orders didn’t come from the president. Imagine if people in the military missed movement during the early bush years because they believed bush didn’t really win the election. Imagine the uproar that would ensue.. but the fact is that person would still be wrong because his orders didn’t come from the president. Imagine what would happen if you were allowed to question the qualifications of every person up the chain of command. Chaos would ensue

  28. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 1, 2015 at 6:42 am #

    CRJ: Obama missed a BIG CHANCE to gain the love and admiration of the Military there by showing some greater character. . I suppose you would have to have to show it though. Must not have been a teleprompter around.

    Umm sorry but the military was firmly against Lakin. Lakin should have shown character by not admitting under oath that he was wrong. Instead he was an opportunist who got sucked in by a conspiracy theory

  29. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 1, 2015 at 6:46 am #

    CRJ: Believe it or not 43 Presidents. Everyone met the Definition qualification of

    Chester a Arthurs father wasn’t naturalized until 16 years after his birth. Vp Charles curtis’ mother was American Indian and he was born on an Indian Reservation. The first gop candidate for president John c Fremont was born out of wedlock to a french father. There is no two citizen parent requirement. This is your contradiction on Lakin. Lakin never went two citizen parent theory. He never believed it

  30. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 1, 2015 at 7:34 am #

    Frémont, please.

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: John c Fremont was born out of wedlock to a french father

  31. avatar
    Andy December 1, 2015 at 7:48 am #

    CRJ:
    @Andy [That is an idiotic statement. Mr. Lakin made his choices. Obama had no part of any action taken by Mr. Lakin.]

    No it’s not. Terry Lakin was and is no stupid idiot. I don’t know if you took a gander at that video, but he’s pretty decorated tree.

    Decorated or not, his choices were his. He, like you, had to deal with the consequences of stupid choices.

    To not say OBAMA’S NON TRANSPARENCY has everything to do with Lakin’s decision to disobey orders would just cockn your head up a fartn pigeon.

    Lack of transparency? Really? Did you not notice that we know when, where, and even at what time Obama was born? He released his freaking birth certificate, which is something that no other president in history has done.

    Moreover, trying to pin Lakin’s choices on what Obama did or didn’t do is stupid. Lakin had to make the move. It was his action; his verb. Don’t try to shift the blame. (Is that the defense you tried in your own trial? How well did that work out for you?)

    Believe it or not 43 Presidents. Everyone met the Definition qualification of

    1-Citizen of a State at the Time of the Adoption of the Constitution
    Or
    2- BORN in the U.S. to Citizen Parents
    Accept for Obama. . dual citizenship. One from Kenya through his Father One from U.S. his mother. That definition is in TITLE X ALIENS and NATIONAL subsection 1401 (a- h )
    that’s an ACT OF CONGRESS called naturalization.

    Read the freakin’ 14th Amendment. I know you don’t like it, but being as Obama was born in Hawaii, he’s more American than apple pie. Your being dense is not going to change that.

    Lakin wasn’t dumb..neithers Congress, and neither is Obama.He just wasn’t in the Croynism Congress was into ie. U.S. Sen Res. 511 and Obama is smooth as Twiced Cooked Beef. That’s polished. He’s good.. real slick.
    Lakins more like me. Willing to take one for the Team. That’s called sacrifice and it’s unselfish. That’s what Jesus did. Some People call it stupid.. We know different. Its smarter in the long run.

    If you are stupid enough to “take one for the [losing] team,” then you are more than welcome to. But don’t go around talking about your bravery while completing a fools errand. It just makes you look more stupid.

  32. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 1, 2015 at 7:50 am #

    I was thinking about the Vattel passage last night:

    “The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.”

    Does this not say that BOTH “native-born citizens” and “natural-born citizens” are the same thing under this definition, so that for Vattel all native-born citizens are also natural born citizens?

    The Supreme Court said in McCreery’s Lessee v. Somerville (22 U.S. 354) 1824:

    “W. M‘Creery left at his death no children, but a brother, Ralph M‘Creery, a native of Ireland, who is still living, and who has not been naturalized, and three nieces, Letitia Barwell, Jane M‘Creery, and Isabella M‘Creery, the latter being the lessor of the plaintiff, who are the daughters of the said Ralph, and native born citizens of the United States.”

    The children of an alien father are native born citizens.

    Lupin: In proper English — which, I know, is like ancient Aramaic to you — this correctly means that EITHER parent must be a citizen, not BOTH.

  33. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 1, 2015 at 8:48 am #

    There is some indication that the Colorado shooter could have been a birther. I’m waiting for more information.

    Keith: The loner who allegedly killed three people at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado last week committed a deadlier act of terrorism than any attributed to a refugee in the United States in the past three and a half decades.

  34. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater December 1, 2015 at 10:32 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Frémont, please.

    Yeah I was responding from my cell phone

  35. avatar
    Arthur B. December 1, 2015 at 12:10 pm #

    CRJ: I’m just saying if I were President, there is nothing about my qualifications that I wouldn’t be happy to turn over if it meant keeping a man with a family out of Prison.

    Hold on, Cody. You seem to be implying that if Pres. Obama had released his LFBC before rather than after Lakin’s court-martial, it would have kept him out of prison.

    But as I understand it, Lakin remains a birther, believing the LFBC to have been falsified.

    So how would releasing it earlier have kept him out of prison?

  36. avatar
    Joey December 1, 2015 at 12:32 pm #

    CRJ says: “Obama missed a BIG CHANCE to gain the love and admiration of the Military there by showing some greater character. . I suppose you would have to have to show it though. Must not have been a teleprompter around.”
    —————–
    Barack Obama released his official. State of Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth in June of 2008. Terry Lakin’s challenges were in 2009-2010.
    President Obama’s opponents, John McCain never released a birth certificate publicly even though he was sued due to his birth outside of the United States and Mitt Romney released a short form Michigan birth certifcate which says that it is “VOID” and shows that Mitt’s father was born in Mexico.

  37. avatar
    Lupin December 1, 2015 at 12:34 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I was thinking about the Vattel passage last night:

    “The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.”

    Does this not say that BOTH “native-born citizens” and “natural-born citizens” are the same thing under this definition, so that for Vattel all native-born citizens are also natural born citizens?

    The Supreme Court said in McCreery’s Lessee v. Somerville (22 U.S. 354) 1824:

    “W. M‘Creery left at his death no children, but a brother, Ralph M‘Creery, a native of Ireland, who is still living, and who has not been naturalized, and three nieces, Letitia Barwell, Jane M‘Creery, and Isabella M‘Creery, the latter being the lessor of the plaintiff, who are the daughters of the said Ralph, and native born citizens of the United States.”

    The children of an alien father are native born citizens.

    As I recall mentioning once, Vattel only recognizes two classes of citizens, not three — something the birthers convenient omit: (1) the natives, or naturels, or natural-born, if you will, and (2) the naturalized.

    Ergo if you’re not naturalized, you’re a native, or a natural-born, through birth.

    Then we get into the historical notion of fathers being the ones who matter, as opposed to mothers, long made obsolete by history.

    But discounting that last element, as I often wrote here, if you were to apply Vattelian logic to Obama’s birth circumstances, he most definitely is a naturel.

  38. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 1, 2015 at 2:03 pm #

    Amongst the hypocrisy is the fact that Obama birthers said that the 2008-released birth certificate was invalid because it had been altered (covered up the certificate number), but when Romney’s certificate said “VOID” nobody complained.

    Joey: Mitt Romney released a short form Michigan birth certifcate which says that it is “VOID” and shows that Mitt’s father was born in Mexico.

  39. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 1, 2015 at 2:08 pm #

    That’s the sticky part of the Ted Cruz eligibility question. Cruz is a citizen only because of an act of Congress, and the Constitution only gives Congress the power of naturalization. So one might argue that Cruz is a naturalized citizen, or as Vattel says of the children of aliens born in England: “naturalized at birth.”

    However, I reject the Vattelian dichotomy entirely because “natural born” has a distinct meaning in English apart from “naturalization,” and Vattel was not writing in English, nor in the English Common Law framework familiar to the American Framers.

    One way of explaining why “natural born citizen” doesn’t work for an English translation of Vattel is to substitute some other words for citizen:

    “Natural-born killers are those born of parents who are killers.”

    “Natural-born baseball players are those born of parents who are baseball players.”

    “Natural-born musicians are those born of parents who are musicians.”

    Lupin: Ergo if you’re not naturalized, you’re a native, or a natural-born, through birth.

  40. avatar
    gorefan December 1, 2015 at 2:48 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So one might argue that Cruz is a naturalized citizen, or as Vattel says of the children of aliens born in England: “naturalized at birth.”

    But Congress has defined naturalization as occurring at some point after birth.

    7 FAM 1131.6-3 Not Citizens by “Naturalization”
    (CT:CON-474; 08-19-2013)
    Section 101(a)(23) INA (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(23)) provides that the term “naturalization” means “the conferring of nationality of a state upon a person after birth, by any means whatsoever.” Persons who acquire U.S. citizenship at birth by birth abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents who meet the applicable statutory transmission requirements are not considered citizens by naturalization.

    http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf

  41. avatar
    Rickey December 1, 2015 at 3:11 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    He does? I thought Kansas (?) had refused him.

    He is practicing in Pueblo, Colorado.

    http://www.southerncoloradoclinic.com/terry-lakin-do.html

  42. avatar
    bob December 1, 2015 at 4:27 pm #

    gorefan: But Congress has defined naturalization as occurring at some point after birth.

    Apuzzo (or just about any other birther) would retort: Congress can’t change the meaning of the words in the U.S. Constitution.

  43. avatar
    J.D. Reed December 1, 2015 at 4:40 pm #

    CRJ:
    @joey Yes, the military understands Order
    [4 words..3 words..2…words]

    Chewing their tongue-n-cheek out maybe the toughest work they do to stay silent.
    The silence 1 to 22 is perhaps the loudest word we will hear.

    http://taskandpurpose.com/truth-22-veteran-suicides-day/

    I know the silence of 1 Word and how misunderstandings can make people mad and angry. So mad and angry they wanna bury ya in a hole for 8 years in a Land of Freedom and Liberty.

    @Doc Why go to the KKK?
    Arresting people for ineligibility questions about Obama is just silly.. They flat out put Terry Lakin in prison and stripped him of 18 years of service for the question of simply confirmation Obama was a [natural born Citizen

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RTERVtZzRR8

    CRJ, where to begin? You assert as a fact what has never been proven, i.e. Obama’s ineligibility. Before being elected Obama presented a document that was sufficient for all governmental purposes. Sure, theoretically it could have been a forgery — but it was prima facie evidence. The (heavy) burden of proof was on those who contended it was a fake, and no one came within 100 light years of doing so.
    The other birther theories as to why Obama was ineligible did not hinge on a birth certificate, which was an issue of fact. The others, assertions of dual citizenship and inadequate parental qualifications, are a matter of law, which no documents in Obama’s possession could have resolved.
    What proves your (and other hardcore birthers’ lack of good faith) is that the release of the so-called long form birth certificate made no difference to you
    despite Hawaii officials’ verification of the data found thereon. If the Obama haters were going to reject any evidence in his favor – as abundantly proved by post-release events — what would be the point of releasing it at Dr. Lakin’s demand?
    I won’t address the dual citizenship issue, although I believe others have done so convincingly. As for the “lost his citizenship in Indonesia” meme, I have yet to see anyone make even a prima facie case that this couold have happened.
    For young Master Obama to have lost his citizenship in Indonesia, one of three entities would have had to deprive him:
    (1) The Indonesian government. Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship so the theory here is that Indonesia made him a citizen by arrogating to itself the right to strip him of his U.S. citizenship. But a bedrock principle of international law is that every independent nation on earth has the right to decide for itself, with no input from any other country whatsoever, who shall be its citizens. I have never read where a birther disputed this; they just ignore the issue.
    Indonesia couldn’t have done it.
    (2) Obama’s parents. But according to Perkins v. Elg, no parent or any other adult has the right to renounce U.S. citizenship for a minor child.
    So Obama’s parents couldn’t have done it.
    (3) Obama himself. Except that U.S. law explicitly does not allow a child to renounce his or her citizenship.
    And Obama couldn’t have done it.
    I am no lawyer, political scientist or historian. My knowledge is necessarily incomplete and imperfect, so if I have misstated the facts above, I would welcome correction.
    I am also no psychiatrist or psychologist, so what follows is strictly an amateur analysis, albeit a sincere one.

    I know it irritates you that Bob keeps after you about what the character
    Anthony Bouvier in “Designing Women” refers to as his “unfortunate incarceration.”
    But your opting to commit the act that landed you in jail seems to me to resonate with your current quest to prove – perhaps to yourself – that Obama is a usurper. As it does with Dr. Lakin’s embarking on what one poster here has aptly labeled a fool’s errand.
    The root of your, and Dr. Lakin’s, troubles lie in your sense of extralegal entitlement. Not talking about worldly goods here, but to your apparent belief that you are entitled to something more than the law gives you.
    Talking about your and Dr. Lakin’s dogged insistence that you are entitled to be personally satisfied that Obama is a natural born citizen. But you have no such right. The only obligation that Obama had to satisfy was that of the law. He satisfied that by qualifying for all 50 state ballots (plus D.C.’s), winning the election, and getting certified by Congress (unanimously, both times.)
    About 60 million people voted against Obama, both times. If only a tiny fraction of that number were afforded the right to be personally satisfied that he met the natural born citizen requirement, government would be unworkable. Some, as we have seen with the Indonesian citizenship issue, cling to the totally false assertion that Obama sealed his personal records with an executive order. (An assertion you still pledge your allegiance to, 6 1/2 years after its having been shown to be false.) Such folks have signaled that they have no intention of ever pushing their biases to the side and examining the evidence with total honesty. Thus it is an impossible burden to satisfy such people, and it would be absurd to even try.

    You’re still a young man. Please don’t waste another 2,308 days of your life, or even a single day, on this quixotic quest that is guaranteed to get you nowhere.

  44. avatar
    ballantine December 1, 2015 at 5:29 pm #

    bob: Apuzzo (or just about any other birther) would retort: Congress can’t change the meaning of the words in the U.S. Constitution.

    But what was the meaning in the US Constitution? Lord Coke said that Calvin, and hence all natural born subjects, was naturalized by “by procreation and birth-right.” English statutes such as 4 Geo. II. c. 21. and 13 Geo. 3. c. 21 made natural born subjects of foreign born persons who were naturalized at birth pursuant to naturalization statutes. Such statutory subjects had all the rights of common law subject including eligibility to hold office in England. Based on this, one can argue that “natural born subjects” where those naturalized at birth either pursuant to the common law or pursuant to statute.

    It is true that the term “naturalized” would later only be used in England with respect to persons naturalized after birth, see scholars such as Chitty and Cockburn. However, it is not clear such distinction existed in 1787.

    With respect to US legal precedent, whether foreign born citizens at birth were naturalized or not has never been clear for the past 2 centuries as it has never been quite clear what “naturalization” means. Just read the various opinions in Miller vs. Allbright where the majority opinion does not refer to such persons as “naturalized” while Scalia’s concurring opinion appears to disagree.

    Nevertheless, being naturalized at birth as the definition of being “natural born citizen” as the understanding in 1787 is as plausible as any of the other theories out there.

  45. avatar
    Rickey December 1, 2015 at 6:42 pm #

    CRJ:

    Lakins more like me. Willing to take one for the Team.

    Lakin didn’t take one for the team. He betrayed his team.

  46. avatar
    Curious George December 1, 2015 at 6:58 pm #

    More nonsense from the queen bee of accuracy in reporting…

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2015/12/01/zullo-silence-on-birth-certificate-investigation-like-torture/

  47. avatar
    Rickey December 1, 2015 at 6:59 pm #

    Arthur B.: Hold on, Cody. You seem to be implying that if Pres. Obama had released his LFBC before rather than after Lakin’s court-martial, it would have kept him out of prison.

    But as I understand it, Lakin remains a birther, believing the LFBC to have been falsified.

    So how would releasing it earlier have kept him out of prison?

    Lakin knew that he was going to be arrested if he failed to deploy with his unit. He wanted to be arrested.

    Remember, this was during the time when the birthers were desperate to find a plaintiff who had standing so they could get discovery. In that they were unsuccessful, so they opted for a defendant who (they hoped) could get discovery. Lakin either was convinced or volunteered to be their guinea pig.

    Of course, the plan when down the drain when the military judge ruled that Obama’s eligibility was irrelevant to the case against Lakin. His orders to deploy were lawful orders regardless of Obama’s eligibility.

  48. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 1, 2015 at 8:00 pm #

    Well the article is chock-full-o-nuts but that ZuluBravoTango character has a pretty good handle on the dynamics between Zullo and Montgomery, IMO. Somebody new to watch.

    The conclusion, though, is just wishful thinking:

    “Our courtroom source said that Zullo’s testimony provided a glimpse into the ‘complexity and dynamics’ of what was unfolding over the last 16 months concerning the criminal investigation undertaken by the Cold Case Posse and that he believes ‘there is a strong possibility that new information could be forthcoming.'”

    Curious George: More nonsense from the queen bee of accuracy in reporting

  49. avatar
    Daniel December 1, 2015 at 8:02 pm #

    John Reilly: Joey:A minor quibble.You cannot “win” a Congressional Medal of Honor.It is awarded.It is not a competition.

    Sure it is.

    Who can catch the most bullets…..

    I’m going to Hell

  50. avatar
    Daniel December 1, 2015 at 8:05 pm #

    CRJ:
    @Bob [Lakin is licensed (and practicing) in Colorado now]

    Lakin’s Trouble was simply Obama’s Ineligibility. ” I Believe in You”
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7d-FcfeCPlI

    Setting aside the fact that Obama is not ineligible…

    Lakin’s trouble had zip to do with Obama’s eligibility. Lakin’s trouble was due simply to his refusal to obey a lawful command.

    Even IF Obama was ineligible, it would still have been a lawful command. This was explained to him in great detail, several times, before he was charged.

    But true to form, you birthers refuse to accept the details, if it means you can’t blame Obama for drought or flood.

  51. avatar
    Daniel December 1, 2015 at 8:21 pm #

    Looking at Lakin’s bio at his new job, I find it interesting he talks a lot about his military career but fails to mention the disgrace of how it ended….

    “Dr. Lakin was born and raised in Northern Colorado, served as physician in the US Army for 17 years including clinic duties in Urgent Care and Family Practice. Dr. Lakin achieved the rank of Lieutenant Colonel and was awarded the Bronze Star Medal during his last deployment to Afghanistan in 2004 as an Army Flight Surgeon.”

  52. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy December 1, 2015 at 9:05 pm #

    Lord Dicey laid out his understanding of British nationality in his Digest of the Laws of England with reference to the Conflict of Laws, published in 1896. He defines “naturalized British subject” as “any British Subject who is not a natural-born British subject.” So in Dicey’s formulation, the natural-born subject is the primary definition, upon which the naturalization definition depends. And Dicey says that NBS “means” someone who was a British subject “at the moment of his birth.”

    Dicey’s definitions were cited approvingly by the Supreme Court in US v. Wong.

    I must concede that Dicey’s definitions are made in the context of British law as it existed in 1896; however, the British were calling the children of subject fathers born overseas “natural born subjects” since before 1776. My sense of his purpose is not to sustain a historical context, but rather to systematize the law.

    ballantine: Nevertheless, being naturalized at birth as the definition of being “natural born citizen” as the understanding in 1787 is as plausible as any of the other theories out there.

  53. avatar
    Curious George December 1, 2015 at 10:16 pm #

    Dr. C, quoting Rondeau:

    “Our courtroom source said that Zullo’s testimony provided a glimpse into the ‘complexity and dynamics’ of what was unfolding over the last 16 months concerning the criminal investigation undertaken by the Cold Case Posse and that he believes ‘there is a strong possibility that new information could be forthcoming.’”

    Yes, the new information forthcoming will be the expected criminal referrals in December by Judge Snow for the effort to discredit his court by Arpaio and members of his wonder team. This could get real nasty.

  54. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) December 2, 2015 at 4:46 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So in Dicey’s formulation, the natural-born subject is the primary definition, upon which the naturalization definition depends.

    I think that’s a very important aspect.
    Often around here, we used to say “any citizen who didn’t have to naturalize is an NBC”, but it’s actually the opposite. Now this might seem like nitpicking because the division into two subclasses is symmetric, but it shows the important distinction that being an NBC is the core of citizenship upon which naturalization was built – and not that being an NBC is such a “special” thing because it’s what makes you eligible for the Presidency.
    Birthers usually treat NBC as some kind of “special vetting definition” when it actually is the default for “ordinary” citizenship. This distinction shows even better why the “two citizen parent” theory is wrong.