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Zullo to appeal Snow ruling

H/t to Nancy Owens for the link to this remarkable document filed in the Melendres case by Mike Zullo. It is a motion to stay the order of Judge Snow until Zullo can appeal to the 9th circuit. Judge Snow’s previously denied a motion by Zullo to obtain a 30-day delay in his testimony and deposition while he retains counsel.

Interested readers will probably want to review the document in its entirety because it is full of conspiracist thinking. What strikes me is that what we see here contains elements of the same conspiracy theory involving the Department of Justice alleged by Dennis Montgomery, which was part of the Seattle Operation. And here, the same day that I mentioned the name Lanny Breuer in connection with a Jerome Corsi article from 2012, the name pops up once more in the Zullo notice. My perception is that Zullo has been primed by Montgomery, and does not share Sheriff Joe’s spoken assessment of Montgomery’s information, that it was “junk.”

I’m sure Zullo will win no points by injecting Judge Snow’s wife into the story again.

Mike Zullo believes that he is entitled to a lawyer paid for by the County; he cites the fact that the County provided a lawyer for Arpaio and others. What he doesn’t seem to get is that the County-provided lawyer does not represent any of the defendants in the matter of criminal contempt of court. For that Arpaio has to pay for his own lawyer, and if Zullo believes that he is in criminal jeopardy, he cannot expect the County to pay for a criminal lawyer for him any more than it did for Arpaio. I suppose that Zullo could say that he cannot afford an attorney and ask the Court to appoint one for him. The Court has the discretionary power to do that, and there is some precedent for the right to counsel in a civil case where fifth amendment privilege is invoked. See Maness v. Meyers 419 U.S. 449 (1975).

I think Judge Snow is being imminently fair with Mike Zullo, and I expect the 9th Circuit to agree that Zullo has no legitimate complaint.

The Zullo notice contains reference to objections filed by Defendants to his original motion for more time to get a lawyer. These are available in the Jack Ryan collection.

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125 Responses to Zullo to appeal Snow ruling

  1. avatar
    Nancy R Owens November 2, 2015 at 4:36 pm #

    Just out by Lemons:

    .@RealSheriffJoe ‘s birther-posse commander MikeZullo files pro se notice that he’ll appeal denial of extension http://media.phoenixnewtimes.com/10627782.0.pdf

  2. avatar
    bob November 2, 2015 at 5:01 pm #

    @RealSheriffJoe ‘s birther-posse commander MikeZullo files pro se notice that he’ll appeal denial of extension http://media.phoenixnewtimes.com/10627782.0.pdf

    This is about the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen a birther file with a court. And I say that having read much of Taitz’s and Judy’s “work.”

  3. avatar
    bovril November 2, 2015 at 5:12 pm #

    My god…..are we sure that wasn’t written by A Boy Named Judy…..?

  4. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 2, 2015 at 5:14 pm #

    What I wonder is whether Zullo is saying out loud what Arpaio believes privately–that Judge Snow is out to destroy him.

  5. avatar
    gorefan November 2, 2015 at 5:39 pm #

    IIRC, there was one of the MCSO parties in this case who had to set up a GoFundMe donation page to pay his legal bills. AIR, Arpaio won’t pay his fees out of Arpaio’s legal defense fund.

    Edit: Found it.

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arpaio-doesnt-share-says-mcso-lieutenant-joe-sousas-gofundme-account-7711389

    https://www.gofundme.com/fd52g8vc

  6. avatar
    roadburner November 2, 2015 at 5:53 pm #

    bovril:
    My god…..are we sure that wasn’t written by A Boy Named Judy…..?

    I don’t know about judy, but it reads like john actually got in touch with zullo and started giving him advice!

    wing commander zullo appears to be crapping his pants, even though he’s not been charged with anything

    the smell of panic is strong.

  7. avatar
    CarlOrcas November 2, 2015 at 6:06 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    What I wonder is whether Zullo is saying out loud what Arpaio believes privately–that Judge Snow is out to destroy him.

    Yes, I think you are absolutely right.

    They’re both crazier than two buckets of rocks.

  8. avatar
    Sudoku November 2, 2015 at 6:18 pm #

    Sounds a bit like KKKlayman to me.

  9. avatar
    CarlOrcas November 2, 2015 at 6:32 pm #

    roadburner: ………..the smell of panic is strong.

    You can almost see the spittle on the screen.

    I also wonder if someone helped him write it and he pasted it together. He switches from the third person, to the first person to the zillionth person and back and forth.

    I particularly liked the story he apparently picked up about the ACLU of Utah. Looks like he is taking shots at everyone except the Easter Bunny.

    And, finally, he’s hoping it will be “amendable” to the unnamed prominent attorney to represent him. Good luck Mike.

  10. avatar
    Curious George November 2, 2015 at 6:45 pm #

    Mikey if you’re reading this, quickly shut your mouth, and put your pen away, before you do any more damage to yourself. Read what Doc said and think about it…..

    “For that Arpaio has to pay for his own [criminal] lawyer, and if Zullo believes that he is in criminal jeopardy, he cannot expect the County to pay for a criminal lawyer either.” Your idea to invoke the 5th just adds more fuel to the fire, and more reason for the county not to provide you with an attorney. One other suggestion, try to tell the truth and get it over with. Judge Snow will see through you like an x-ray machine.

    Now sit back, take a deep breath and shut up! And, find an attorney, a non-Birther attorney if possible to try to patch the crack in the dam. ( Disclaimer: IANAL )

  11. avatar
    Curious George November 2, 2015 at 6:49 pm #

    Doc, you’re right on target. The story continues, over and over again.

    “What strikes me is that what we see here contains elements of the same conspiracy theory involving the Department of Justice alleged by Dennis Montgomery, which was part of the Seattle Operation. And here, the same day that I mentioned the name Lanny Breuer in connection with a Jerome Corsi article from 2012, the name pops up once more in the Zullo notice.”

  12. avatar
    bob November 2, 2015 at 7:10 pm #

    The ACLU responds.

  13. avatar
    chancery November 2, 2015 at 7:29 pm #

    Doc,

    You’ve raised an interesting question. The Sixth Amendment right to counsel applies to criminal matters. This is a civil action, and Zullo is responding to a civil subpoena.

    About 20 minutes ago I came close to posting on Fogbow a comment to the effect that Zullo’s suggestion that he’s entitled to appointed counsel is legally frivolous, because the Sixth Amendment never applies to civil actions.

    But I didn’t post it, because I realized that I don’t know whether that’s so. There may be circumstances in which the risk of criminal prosecution arising from a witnesses’s entanglement with civil litigation is so great that she’s entitled to appointed counsel.

    But I’m willing to predict, without doing any research, that this isn’t one of them.

  14. avatar
    chancery November 2, 2015 at 7:40 pm #

    One small technical correction. This is not a notice of appeal, it’s a request to the District Court for a stay of its order pending appeal.

    Since any appeal filed by Zullo would become moot long before it could be heard by the 9th Circuit, even under an expedited schedule, he needs to request that the 9th Circuit stay the challenged order until the appeal is decided. But the 9th circuit will peremptorily deny a stay request unless (i) a stay has first been sought from and refused by the District Court, or (ii) seeking such a stay is impossible or would be futile. Zullo can’t satisfy the second requirement — even Klayman knows this — so he’s laying the groundwork for a subsequent stay motion to the 9th Circuit.

    It’s all baloney, of course. No stay will be granted, and the appeal will be denied. Paper, lawyers’ time, and court time will be wasted. Sanctions should be awarded, but they wont be.

  15. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 2, 2015 at 7:59 pm #

    One point in the opposition brief to Zullo’s original motion for protection and delay, is that Zullo was only acting under the direction of MCSO personnel. They said that to argue that anything in the Zullo material could not be privileged because it was part of a collective work, and Zullo was only its custodian. However, it seemed to me that the argument also went towards getting Zullo off the criminal hook, so to speak.

    chancery: But I didn’t post it, because I realized that I don’t know whether that’s so. There may be circumstances in which the risk of criminal prosecution arising from a witnesses’s entanglement with civil litigation is so great that she’s entitled to appointed counsel.

  16. avatar
    wrecking ball November 2, 2015 at 8:08 pm #

    bob:
    The ACLU responds.

    i was hoping for “LOL”.

  17. avatar
    chancery November 2, 2015 at 8:21 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    One point in the opposition brief to Zullo’s original motion for protection and delay, is that Zullo was only acting under the direction of MCSO personnel. They said that to argue that anything in the Zullo material could not be privileged because it was part of a collective work, and Zullo was only its custodian. However, it seemed to me that the argument also went towards getting Zullo off the criminal hook, so to speak.

    I don’t think that’s right. First, Zullo wasn’t “only its custodian” in the sense of someone in charge of a file room who’s not involved with the documents it contains.

    Second, that fact that the documents belong to MCSO for purposes of identifying the holder of any privilege attached to the documents doesn’t have anything to do with whether a posseman could have criminal liability for his actions. “My boss told me to do it” is not, by itself, much of a defense to a criminal charge.

  18. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 2, 2015 at 8:22 pm #

    I found some exceptions based on Federal statutory law, but they don’t apply here. I found a law review article that discusses indigent’s “right” to counsel in civil cases. It begins by saying: “At present [1975], the Supreme Court recognizes no express right to counsel in civil cases.”

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/287964100/1507-P-Opp-to-Zullo-Motion-w-Exhibits

    The case of Maness v. Meyers mentioned in the article and following discussion may have application. See starting on page 996.

    Justice Stewart, in a concurring opinion wrote:

    “The Court today holds that the constitutional privilege against compulsory self-incrimination embraces the right of a testifying party to the unfettered advice of counsel in a civil proceeding. … The premise underlying the conclusion … must be that there is a constitutional right … to some right of counsel …. The Court’s rationale thus inexorably implies that counsel must be appointed for any indigent witness, whether or not he is a party, in any proceeding in which his testimony can be compelled.”

    chancery: But I’m willing to predict, without doing any research, that this isn’t one of them.

  19. avatar
    chancery November 2, 2015 at 8:33 pm #

    Doc, I think you meant to post a link to the article but didn’t.

    Also, even in criminal proceedings, the “express” right to counsel is the right to have your counsel, if you have counsel, participate in the proceeding. It’s express because it says so plainly in the Sixth Amendment: “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right … to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.”

    The right to have counsel appointed at government expense is an implied right.

  20. avatar
    Pete November 2, 2015 at 8:37 pm #

    wrecking ball: i was hoping for “LOL”.

    I was thinking more along the lines of, “Whatever Mr. Zullo is smoking, Plaintiff’s attorneys would suggest that he sell some of it in order to fund his legal representation, if such action were not likely illegal.”

  21. avatar
    RanTalbott November 2, 2015 at 8:39 pm #

    Sudoku: Sounds a bit like KKKlayman to me.

    Yeah, but also like Zullo ran it through a mental “obnoxiousness removal” filter as he copied it. He’s seen enough of the results of Klayman’s antics to realize that you catch less flak with vinegar than you do with sulphuric acid.

  22. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 2, 2015 at 8:40 pm #

    I won’t assert a conclusion, but I do observe that Zullo was acting under direction of a duly appointed law officer in the role of a citizen activated by the Sheriff.

    chancery: “My boss told me to do it” is not, by itself, much of a defense to a criminal charge.

  23. avatar
    gorefan November 2, 2015 at 8:40 pm #

    As I re-read Zullo’s notice, I can help but feel it was not written for the courts but rather for the folks at BirtherReport. Could a legal defense fund be far behind?

  24. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 2, 2015 at 8:57 pm #

    Correct. Here is that link:

    http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2172&context=flr

    chancery: Doc, I think you meant to post a link to the article but didn’t.

  25. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 2, 2015 at 9:04 pm #

    It certainly sounds like something someone at Birther Report could have said. But Zullo is, after all, a birther. In extremis, his true nature will out.

    gorefan: As I re-read Zullo’s notice, I can help but feel it was not written for the courts but rather for the folks at BirtherReport. Could a legal defense fund be far behind?

  26. avatar
    Sudoku November 2, 2015 at 9:06 pm #

    If Zullo was actually under the direction of a deputy, does that mean the county would/could provide a defense, versus if he were working soley on a posse or personal activity?

    Any help clarifying this for me would be appreciated.

  27. avatar
    chancery November 2, 2015 at 9:39 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I won’t assert a conclusion, but I do observe that Zullo was acting under direction of a duly appointed law officer in the role of a citizen activated by the Sheriff.

    Being under the general direction of a law officer is, I think, pretty much irrelevant. The police do not have a general license to commit crimes, let alone authorize other people to do so. If a bunch of possemen decide to rob a bank or beat up someone they think looks suspicious, the general direction of a duly appointed law officer won’t help them.

    Following specific directions is possibly another matter, but only within pretty narrow limits. (At the risk of beating a straw horse, it obviously would’t help in the case of a bank robbery or random beatdown.) As Tess has discussed in some detail at The Fogbow, there are issues with respect to whether any of the participants in the Seattle Operation had the requisite mental state for the federal crimes under consideration, but Zullo’s status as a volunteer under the loose supervision of the police is not, I think, a particularly important factor in whether he’s subject to criminal liability. Although I do think that the ACLU is correct about its importance in the privilege dispute.

    Also, while I’m sure that you are quoting one of Zullo’s more fatuous utterances without endorsing it, “in the role of a citizen activated by the Sheriff” is gobbledygook.

  28. avatar
    gorefan November 2, 2015 at 9:48 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Zullo is, after all, a birther. In extremis, his true nature will out.

    Yeah, it certainly settles the question of whether he is a true believer.

  29. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater November 2, 2015 at 9:58 pm #

    roadburner: I don’t know about judy, but it reads like john actually got in touch with zullo and started giving him advice!

    wing commander zullo appears to be crapping his pants, even though he’s not been charged with anything

    the smell of panic is strong.

    Maybe he got his bff Carl Gallups to draft it?

  30. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 2, 2015 at 10:12 pm #

    While that phrase is intentionally Zulloesque, I didn’t intend it to be gobbledygook. There are venerable Arizona statutes about posses that assume law enforcement powers under the direction of a Sheriff. The activation language comes from a Maricopa County policy manual:

    “Since the Sheriff must summon the individual or Posse branch for assistance, the Posse carries no law enforcement authority until an individual is qualified to assist with law enforcement functions and is activated.”

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/216176661/GJ-27-Sheriff-s-Posse-Program-1

    I think the ARS would use the word “summoned.”

    ARS 13-402 seems to authorize someone to use deadly force to assist a peace officer, even if that officer is exceeding their legal authority.

    A person can carry a gun on K-12 school grounds when summoned, but not otherwise.

    chancery: Also, while I’m sure that you are quoting one of Zullo’s more fatuous utterances without endorsing it, “in the role of a citizen activated by the Sheriff” is gobbledygook.

  31. avatar
    Paul November 2, 2015 at 10:18 pm #

    OMG!@#!! I’m late to this thread, but holy sheisse… that “appeal” was like reading Orly Taitz on crack!

  32. avatar
    Pete November 2, 2015 at 10:20 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Maybe he got his bff Carl Gallups to draft it?

    My theory is that john is serving as Zullo’s Legal Strategy & Defense (LSD) Consultant, and they’ve hired Cody Judy to draft legal filings.

  33. avatar
    chancery November 2, 2015 at 10:27 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    While that phrase is intentionally Zulloesque, I didn’t intend it to be gobbledygook. There are venerable Arizona statutes about posses that assume law enforcement powers under the direction of a Sheriff. The activation language comes from a Maricopa County policy manual:

    Interesting, I didn’t know that. My apologies.

  34. avatar
    Jim November 2, 2015 at 11:14 pm #

    I like that the county pulled the rug from under Zullo…that’s going to hurt! He better have a good lawyer tomorrow or the rest of the stuff is going to be released.

    Wonder how many times he recorded Arpaio?

  35. avatar
    RanTalbott November 2, 2015 at 11:49 pm #

    chancery: Also, while I’m sure that you are quoting one of Zullo’s more fatuous utterances without endorsing it, “in the role of a citizen activated by the Sheriff” is gobbledygook.

    Sounds like a good SF plot device, though.

    “I don’t care if he only had a week to live when they froze him, Doc. He’s the only one left from the last time these aliens attacked, and we need his experience to save the planet. So open the fracking chamber and thaw him out, or I’ll deputize you and send you out to face them. Alone. We’ll worry about curing him if we survive.”

  36. avatar
    wrecking ball November 2, 2015 at 11:54 pm #

    is there any indication that zullo and arpaio are still in contact?

  37. avatar
    tes November 3, 2015 at 12:00 am #

    I may be in the minority but I really don’t think the Maricopa County “pulled the rug” out from under Zullo in any context.

    I believe it is very possible that ZULLO went off during meeting(s) with Jones Skelton about the now-famous Plaintiffs’ Footnote and his fear of criminal prosecution by the DOJ in conspiracy with Covington and in so doing, talked himself right out of any chance of indemnification for an attorney (since – it appears – he was fixated on potential criminal charges rather than merely responding as a witness in these civil proceedings).

    IOW, it is my opinion that ZULLO is 100% personally responsible digging the hole he is now in — it seems to me highly likely that it was HIS OWN ACTIONS — in October and in connection with his interactions w/ Jones Skelton — that resulted in his disqualification re: coverage for indemnification of defense costs.

    I also suspect that neither the county nor the MCSO is very happy about all this. Sure – it might give them some delay. But … it also increases risk of greater focus on his activities (which are likely to be imputed to Arpaio/Sheridan … ergo greater risk to MCSO … ergo greater risk to Maricopa County. Additionally, as others have noted, with each filing, he is increasingly “helping” the plaintiffs by revealing his belief that the very conspiracy Arpaio/Sheridan said they weren’t investigating is real. (One has to ask: why does he think it’s real if they never investigated it ???)

  38. avatar
    Benji Franklin November 3, 2015 at 12:47 am #

    CarlOrcas: he’s hoping it will be “amendable” to the unnamed prominent attorney to represent him.

    Karl Gall Oops!:”Listeners, Commandeer Mike Zoo Low is on the line to update us about all the legal trouble he’s in at the Our Pie Hole contempt of court hearing! Go ahead, Mike, and tell us anything you can that won’t get you sent to prison!

    Perpetrator Mike Zoo Low:”Well, I don’t need to know the difference between English Composition and proofreading to halve probable caws that I’m pleading we it has my 84th Amendment right to not he be forced to testify truthfully before at least corrupt judges who have hateful wives worth two in the bush me.”

    Karl Gall Oops!:”Sounds like you’ve got all your T’s dotted and crossed your eyes there. Mike. But, I’m looking here in the Constitution, Mike, and, correct me if I’m always right, but I just don’t SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE any 84th Amendment. Now, I’m not saying there is NOT one – you understand – I’m just saying I don’t see it, – and I don’t CLAIM to know ANYTHING about the Constitution or the Law or government – that’s why we have used car salesmen, DUI defending lawyers, and dentists to interpret the Constitution. Without you guys, heck, I could only be sure Obama is ineligible to the Presidency – and, gosh, I wouldn’t even know why!”

    (Line goes dead)

  39. avatar
    John Reilly November 3, 2015 at 12:56 am #

    I remain puzzled. Why not just blow the case wide open by revealing the universe shattering information?

  40. avatar
    Pete November 3, 2015 at 1:03 am #

    John Reilly:
    I remain puzzled.Why not just blow the case wide open by revealing the universe shattering information?

    At risk of taking your rhetorical question too literally, and also at risk of stating the obviously apparent obvious: Because there is not, and never was, any universe shattering information.

    Not any that was of any more substance than a Mother Goose fairy tale, at least.

    Three Little Pigs. Humpty Dumpty. Cat and the Fiddle. Seattle Investigation.

  41. avatar
    Pete November 3, 2015 at 1:05 am #

    Benji Franklin: Now, I’m not saying there is NOT one – you understand – I’m just saying I don’t see it, – and I don’t CLAIM to know ANYTHING about the Constitution or the Law or government – that’s why we have used car salesmen, DUI defending lawyers, and dentists to interpret the Constitution.

    Hilarious!

  42. avatar
    Pete November 3, 2015 at 1:05 am #

    And by the way: Thank you Nancy, for the link to this document. 🙂

  43. avatar
    CarlOrcas November 3, 2015 at 1:21 am #

    John Reilly:
    I remain puzzled.Why not just blow the case wide open by revealing the universe shattering information?

    Timing. It’s all in the timing. Any day now. Kaboom!!!

  44. avatar
    Lupin November 3, 2015 at 2:19 am #

    I remain puzzled.

    There is nothing in the Montgomery documents that would incriminate Zullo, right?

    It is all about HOW the documents were obtained (classified stuff etc), and/or HOW they were used or to be used (pressure on Judge Snow), right?

    More likely than not, the documents are worthless.

    So why is Zullo fighting a wolverine on crack to keep them secret?

  45. avatar
    RanTalbott November 3, 2015 at 2:53 am #

    Lupin: So why is Zullo fighting a wolverine on crack to keep them secret?

    You had it right up to this point: it’s not the stuff from Monty he’s trying to keep secret. What he’s trying to keep secret are some of the communications and recordings made by him (and possibly others in the MCSO) while “investigating” Monty’s stuff.

    I’m guessing that the reason he wants to hide it is that he was personally involved in investigating Monty’s “conspiracy” allegations, and the withheld documents show that the claims that the MCSO ignored them to focus on the “bank account hacking” allegations are false. That guess is not based on hard evidence, but on my interpretation of some of the things he and Gallups said during their Free Dumb Friday circle jerks. Which could have just been them bragging to make themselves sound less unimportant, or to keep the suckers hooked.

    But, if that guess is correct, it means that the documents might get his buddies charged with perjury, and him implicated in obstruction of justice.

    btw, I think Zullo is fighting more like a raccoon on fermented berries: a wolverine on crack would be a lot more focussed and effective 😈

  46. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) November 3, 2015 at 3:49 am #

    CarlOrcas: I also wonder if someone helped him write it and he pasted it together.

    He probably had a lawyer write him some stuff, then “improved” that with his own crazy interjections.
    To me this reads like something Orly would write (minus a few atrocious commas).
    And like something that’s actually directed at a birther audience (Zullo must know his filings will become known to them).

  47. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) November 3, 2015 at 3:54 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: They said that to argue that anything in the Zullo material could not be privileged because it was part of a collective work, and Zullo was only its custodian. However, it seemed to me that the argument also went towards getting Zullo off the criminal hook, so to speak.

    Who knows, in Birtherstan a police officer can probably withhold his work product from court to prevent incriminating himself of taking bribes from the mob, or something.

  48. avatar
    Lupin November 3, 2015 at 5:59 am #

    RanTalbott: You had it right up to this point: it’s not the stuff from Monty he’s trying to keep secret. What he’s trying to keep secret are some of the communications and recordings made by him (and possibly others in the MCSO) while “investigating” Monty’s stuff.

    So you think it is not the Montgomery “cache” of documents, but internal communications within the Posse that Zullo is trying to keep under wraps?

    But how acting on a bunch of junk documents (because i can’t think that Montgomery had anything of real value to give them) would be a problem? Was it because it would proved that they really were going after Judge Snow or his wife? Because investigating Obama was sure stupid, but it wasn’t a crime per se.

    Is it another one of those instances where there is no real big underlying crime, except for the subsequent cover up, lying under oath, etc?

    Also, no one has gone after the Posse for being plain conmen, hiding and/or pocketing money, etc. Could Zullo be afraid that one thing might lead to another and then… ?

    I honestly remain somewhat confused as to what Zullo seems so afraid of right now.

  49. avatar
    bovril November 3, 2015 at 6:53 am #

    At the end of the day the ACLU doesn’t care one jot about the “Seattle Operation” per-se.

    IANAL however it seems…….

    What they and the judge are interested in appears to be

    The pattern of abuse of process, failure to adhere to rulings, profligate waste of resources, determination to withhold evidence and the personal animus of Arpaio and senior members of the MCSO to the court and its rulings

    They could care less about how Arapio, Zullo and the MCSO were fleeced, conned and manipulated except as to how it shows a consistent and prevailing pattern of behaviour and outright lies to the court and its monitor

    The content of the messages and material being withheld by Zullo is, in the real world inconsequential to the root of the Melendres case EXCEPT where they can demonstrate the defendants determination to do anything in their power to ignore, block or outright defy the rulings of the court AND any attempts to conflict or otherwise stymie the ongoing work of the judge and court.

    YMMV

  50. avatar
    bob November 3, 2015 at 7:03 am #

    Zullo said he was scared by the ACLU’s footnote that suggested Montgomery has broken a slew of federal crimes. Zullo appears to be scared that he could be accused of either breaking those same laws, or being an accessory to/conspiring with Montgomery. (Zullo’s fears are likely unfounded, but such is the nature of emotional responses.)

    Zullo’s fear appears to be compounded by the MCSO hanging him out to dry: While Arpaio and others are getting a gold-plated defense, everyone is telling Zullo that he’s own his own.

    Zullo should lawyer up and deal with the cost later. Because the judge is going to rule that the plaintiffs are entitled to take his deposition, and not let Zullo’s delay become more of anyone else’s problem.

  51. avatar
    RanTalbott November 3, 2015 at 7:06 am #

    Lupin: Was it because it would proved that they really were going after Judge Snow or his wife?

    My guess is that they were following the “conspiracy” BS Monty was feeding them (Zullo probably wasn’t involved with the Mrs. Snow thing). I’ve mentioned before that it was possible Zullo thought he was doing a good deed, if he believed the fake evidence. I didn’t think it likely at the time, but, much to my surprise, recent revelations suggest that he’s much more gullible than I thought, and still believes it.

    It also suggests that my oft-stated belief that Zullo had to know that that the CCP “investigation” was a scam may be proven wrong in the coming weeks.

    If he really is that dumb, he may be in a panic because what he thought was a righteous anti-corruption crusade was, not just a foolish waste of time, but possibly a felony. I’m definitely not that dumb, but I’d be at least somewhat worried if I were in his presumed position.

    Lupin: Is it another one of those instances where there is no real big underlying crime, except for the subsequent cover up, lying under oath, etc?

    Maybe. It really depends on whether they were trying to expose the alleged conspiracy for justice (and, of course, good PR for the Shurf), or keep it concealed for leverage. Arpaio’s history suggests the latter, but it’s too soon to tell.

    Lupin: Also, no one has gone after the Posse for being plain conmen

    Yeah, I’ve lamented that, myself. But, as I said above, I may have been wrong about it, because it’s starting to look like Zullo really believes his loony nonsense.

    It might be that Zullo was dipping into the CCP funds in ways that were questionable, or known wrong, but I don’t see even a hint of evidence to support that notion. It’s at least as possible that he’s being cagey about finances merely because he hasn’t brought the books up-to-date for an embarrassing number of years.

    Being confused is the proper state at this point: there are multiple possibilities, and a shortage of data from which to draw solid conclusions. I wouldn’t even bet a beer, much less the farm, on the guesses I’ve made so far. But I’m a compulsive puzzle-solver, so I had to make them 😉

  52. avatar
    alg November 3, 2015 at 7:49 am #

    Any bets the Judge will answer by stating “it is of no concern?”

  53. avatar
    Nancy R Owens November 3, 2015 at 8:06 am #

    Paragraph 4:

    Very interesting.

    tes:
    I also suspect that neither the county nor the MCSO is very happy about all this.Sure – it might give them some delay.But … it also increases risk of greater focus on his activities (which are likely to be imputed to Arpaio/Sheridan … ergo greater risk to MCSO … ergo greater risk to Maricopa County.Additionally, as others have noted, with each filing, he is increasingly “helping” the plaintiffs by revealing his belief that the very conspiracy Arpaio/Sheridan said they weren’t investigating is real.(One has to ask:why does he think it’s real if they never investigated it ???)

  54. avatar
    Nancy R Owens November 3, 2015 at 8:13 am #

    You’re welcome.

    I snatched it from Stephen Lemon’s twitter account, @stephenlemons, within 4 seconds.

    Hmm….I’ve just noticed that he has a blog:

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/topic/feathered-bastard-6498369

    Pete:
    And by the way: Thank you Nancy, for the link to this document.

  55. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater November 3, 2015 at 8:42 am #

    Pete: My theory is that john is serving as Zullo’s Legal Strategy & Defense (LSD) Consultant, and they’ve hired Cody Judy to draft legal filings.

    Maybe Zullo can say he has ebola the day he’s supposed to testify?

  56. avatar
    realist November 3, 2015 at 8:44 am #

    TES: Additionally, as others have noted, with each filing, he is increasingly “helping” the plaintiffs by revealing his belief that the very conspiracy Arpaio/Sheridan said they weren’t investigating is real. (One has to ask: why does he think it’s real if they never investigated it ???)”

    Indeed. Hole. Digging. Deeper.

  57. avatar
    Curious George November 3, 2015 at 9:02 am #

    Realist:

    “Indeed. Hole. Digging. Deeper.”

    It looks like Mikey has a shovel ready job. 😉

  58. avatar
    Curious George November 3, 2015 at 9:07 am #

    Would this drive the Birthers crazier than they already are?

    “Obots announce Mikey Zolus Defense Fund.”

    Help Mikey find his fairness in court.

  59. avatar
    Sam the Centipede November 3, 2015 at 9:28 am #

    Curious George:
    Would this drive the Birthers crazier than they already are?

    “Obots announce Mikey Zolus Defense Fund.”

    Help Mikey find his fairness in court.

    Brilliant idea; of course, they’d go ape! The sovereign citizen element of birtherstan would screech about how we were trying to impose a B.A.R. lawyer (part of the Grand Obama Conspiracy to Rule the World) on Zullo, and said lawyer would drop Zullo deep in the poo.

  60. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) November 3, 2015 at 9:46 am #

    Lupin: Was it because it would proved that they really were going after Judge Snow or his wife? Because investigating Obama was sure stupid, but it wasn’t a crime per se.

    Another idea:
    Zullo was soliciting donations from birthers for his “investigation”.
    If there’s anything in the documents proving he knew the “investigation” was a sham from the get-go, it might expose him to fraud charges.

    So apart from the fact that some “smoking gun” document where Zullo states “we got nothing but we have to make it look like we do” would destroy his credibility in Birtherstan, it would also mean criminal liability.

    He likely believes this case could have the (sekrit) second objective of exposing the Obama “investigation” sham, that would explain why he’s obviously panicking. (The Montgomery stuff doesn’t seem to incriminate him per se, especially since he still has a chance to rat Montgomery/Arpaio out.)

  61. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 3, 2015 at 10:02 am #

    My view is that Zullo is just another paranoic-styled conspiracy theorist that believes that the powers that run the world are out to get him. Plain and simple.

  62. avatar
    Jim November 3, 2015 at 10:42 am #

    Zullo’s just a simpleton who bit off more than he could chew and is now running scared.

  63. avatar
    HistorianDude November 3, 2015 at 11:01 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Justice Stewart, in a concurring opinion wrote:

    “The Court today holds that the constitutional privilege against compulsory self-incrimination embraces the right of a testifying party to the unfettered advice of counsel in a civil proceeding. … The premise underlying the conclusion … must be that there is a constitutional right … to some right of counsel …. The Court’s rationale thus inexorably implies that counsel must be appointed for any indigent witness, whether or not he is a party, in any proceeding in which his testimony can be compelled.”

    Significantly, I think, nobody here has expressed an interest or intent in depriving Zullo of any “right to counsel.” The decision of the County is merely that they will not PAY for his counsel, and the position of the plaintiff’s is that Zullo has had plenty of time to exercise that right, and his failure to do so is his failure and no one else’s.

    Further, to this point (and I may simply have missed it) I have not seen Zullo make any assertions regarding indigence. He has complained about being misled regarding the counsel he thought he was getting from the county, and he has asserted he wants the county to pay for his representation, and he has expressed a need for more time to get representation.

    But he does not appear to have claimed he needs an appointed lawyer because he can’t afford one on his own

  64. avatar
    Jim November 3, 2015 at 11:14 am #

    HistorianDude: But he does not appear to have claimed he needs an appointed lawyer because he can’t afford one on his own

    That’s his catch-22…he may not be able to afford an attorney but he may be so opposed to showing his finances (and the CCP) that he doesn’t want to ask the court.

    I’m sure he could work out a deal with Orly to do it pro bono for access to all the birther investigation evidence.

  65. avatar
    HistorianDude November 3, 2015 at 11:33 am #

    tes: Additionally, as others have noted, with each filing, he is increasingly “helping” the plaintiffs by revealing his belief that the very conspiracy Arpaio/Sheridan said they weren’t investigating is real.

    Agreed!

    Zullo telegraphed in his emails that he has no intention of testifying in conformance with the testimony of Arpaio and Sheridan regarding the value of Montgomery’s work. It also appears from hints in the same emails (and texts) that he actually was pursuing an investigation of Judge Snow, something of which, given their already established continuous contact, Arpaio cannot have been unaware.

    Zullo is the gift that keeps on giving.

  66. avatar
    gorefan November 3, 2015 at 11:40 am #

    HistorianDude: It also appears from hints in the same emails (and texts) that he actually was pursuing an investigation of Judge Snow,

    Didn’t Sheridan and Mackiewicz testify recently that they told Zullo he was not to investigate Judge Snow?

    Did Zullo go rogue?

  67. avatar
    Pete November 3, 2015 at 11:48 am #

    Curious George: “Obots announce Mikey Zolus Defense Fund.”

    How about, “Obots Announce Mike Zullo Criminal Defense Fund?”

  68. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) November 3, 2015 at 11:48 am #

    HistorianDude: Zullo telegraphed in his emails that he has no intention of testifying in conformance with the testimony of Arpaio and Sheridan regarding the value of Montgomery’s work.

    Isn’t that a thinly veiled “pay my lawyer or else” attempt?

    After all, Zullo still has the option to either incriminate himself just to get back at Arpaio, or to seek immunity for spilling the beans.

    Zullo testifying how Arpaio told him to continue investigating Snow over the concerns of Sheridan et al. might expose Arpaio to much worse repercussions than contempt of court.

    gorefan: Did Zullo go rogue?

    Well, it could get very interesting if Arpaio has to throw Zullo under the bus as scapegoat for the Snow “investigation”. That may backfire if then Zullo decides to spill some beans and play the “whistleblower” about Arpaio’s shenanigans.

  69. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 3, 2015 at 12:03 pm #

    In the great universal divide between things that are my problem, and things that are not my problem, the decision about Zullo’s representation is not my problem.

    HistorianDude: Significantly, I think, nobody here has expressed an interest or intent in depriving Zullo of any “right to counsel.”

  70. avatar
    CarlOrcas November 3, 2015 at 12:03 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    My view is that Zullo is just another paranoic-styled conspiracy theorist that believes that the powers that run the world are out to get him. Plain and simple.

    Yes. Almost always best to go with one’s initial, simple explanation: He’s an idiot.

  71. avatar
    Pete November 3, 2015 at 12:59 pm #

    While that may be part of it, I tend not to believe that’s all of it.

    I would say there’s a lush, fruity bouquet. Clear notes of idiocy and a hint of nuts combine with contrasting overtones of conman and flimflam to produce a unique flavor. There’s a touch of lapdog, a hint of self-promotion, a dollop of the grandiose (with a slight bitter aftertaste), and all is subtly mellowed by a light breath of used-car salesman.

    Truly a special vintage.

  72. avatar
    Jim November 3, 2015 at 1:14 pm #

    I enjoy how he goes from first person (I), to second person (he), to even third person (Zullo)…sounds like he’s having a bit of an identity crisis.

    Zullo’s universe of fake cops, fake investigations, and fake conclusions are now crashing down all around him, couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

  73. avatar
    Notorial Dissent November 3, 2015 at 1:24 pm #

    I think Doc’s take on Lord Zullo is pretty spot on, plus MUST REMEMBER ZULLO IS AN IDIOT, ZULLO IS AN IDIOT, ZULLO IS AN IDIOT!!!

    I think in the end, he’ll do himself more damage than anyone else would or could have.

  74. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 3, 2015 at 1:28 pm #

    It suggests to me multiple authors. The style feels familiar.

    Jim: I enjoy how he goes from first person (I), to second person (he), to even third person (Zullo)…sounds like he’s having a bit of an identity crisis.

  75. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater November 3, 2015 at 1:42 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Yes. Almost always best to go with one’s initial, simple explanation: He’s an idiot.

    Well it certainly explains some of his earlier leaps into craziness. Like at the 2nd press conference he made a comment about photos of Obama when he was a kid were fake but then never touched on it again. At the “sheriff’s conference” he made claims about Russia being involved in placing Obama in power. I think there were even attempts by him to once claim Obama’s parents weren’t his parents.

  76. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 3, 2015 at 1:53 pm #

    And that OCR was a way to sharpen an image.

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: I think there were even attempts by him to once claim Obama’s parents weren’t his parents

  77. avatar
    Pete November 3, 2015 at 2:08 pm #

    I wouldn’t forget the false information regarding race codes that Zullo & Co presented at their press conference.

    I don’t see any way that you present one thing as being another thing without having some knowledge of that. They may have thought, “Well, the late 1960s data specifications are probably going to be the same as the 1961 ones,” but to actually present that as evidence, and to present it as being from the 1961 Vital Statistics Instruction Manual when they apparently didn’t even possess that manual? That’s just false.

    So why would they publicly make claims that were obviously false?

    Apparently they thought it was in their interest, or in the interest of what they were trying to prove, to do so.

    Ultimately, it comes down to making false claims for the sake of their perceived interest.

    So there’s a whole fraudulent aspect of this thing as well. Especially seeing how Arpaio used those spurious and/or false claims to raise large amounts of money.

    So while Zullo may not be that bright, it seems overly charitable to me to forget the shadier side of this all.

  78. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 3, 2015 at 2:11 pm #

    Telephonic scheduling conference today at 3 pm local time.

  79. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 3, 2015 at 3:07 pm #

    They got conned?

    Pete: So why would they publicly make claims that were obviously false?

  80. avatar
    Pete November 3, 2015 at 4:46 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    They got conned?

    I’ll admit there’s definitely something to say for that idea.

    So under this theory, Arpaio and Zullo were simply conned by, say, Jerome Corsi, whose record (as judged by publicly-available information) is less than pristine.

    It’s still hard for me to believe however that Zullo didn’t know the specs he presented to the public as being from a 1961 Vital Statistics Instruction Manual were NOT from a 1961 Vital Statistics Instruction Manual. All it takes to know that is a glance at the original document.

    He would have to not only be conned, he would also have to be one hell of a bad investigator. An investigator who doesn’t even ask to see the source document that a claim comes from?

    It’s also apparent that Arpaio had a very significant political / financial (e.g., fund raising) motivation for promoting the false narrative. He’s even on video record crowing about the amount of money the birther investigation was going to bring him.

    Zullo may have had some financial motivation as well, as well as the ego trip of being promoted from used car salesman to Chief Inspector Commander.

    Maybe I’m guilty of stereotyping, but I’m also just a bit skeptical of the honesty and integrity of car salesmen.

    I’d love to see a full accounting of the Cold Case Posse finances.

  81. avatar
    Curious George November 3, 2015 at 5:10 pm #

    Pete:

    “I’d love to see a full accounting of the Cold Case Posse finances.”

    Zullo, his alleged individual “activation” by Arpaio and his 22 month blackout before October 2013, not knowing anything or anyone involved with the Seattle Operation is Zullo’s apparent attempt to make sure (in his mind) that the court will never audit him or the Cold Case Posse finances. I would speculate that Mikey will be proven wrong when all is said and done and the ignition key is turned off and removed from the bus.

    In court testimony, Detective Mackiewicz said that Tim Blixseth introduced Dennis Montgomery to the MCSO. Mackiewicz said that Zullo knew Tim Blixseth. According to one of Doc’s previous articles, Zullo met Tim Blixseth back in June of 2012. Better work on the old memory Mikey.

  82. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 3, 2015 at 5:11 pm #

    Your point?

    Zullo would have to be crazy to release a bogus table that could easily be (and was) exposed. Whoever originally supplied the table knew where it came from.

    Pete: He would have to not only be conned, he would also have to be one hell of a bad investigator.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 3, 2015 at 5:13 pm #

    I have no reason to think Montgomery was a topic of discussion.

    Curious George: According to one of Doc’s previous articles, Zullo met Tim Blixseth back in June of 2012. Better work on the old memory Mikey.

  84. avatar
    bgansel9 November 3, 2015 at 6:48 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: While that phrase is intentionally Zulloesque, I didn’t intend it to be gobbledygook. There are venerable Arizona statutes about posses that assume law enforcement powers under the direction of a Sheriff. The activation language comes from a Maricopa County policy manual:

    “Since the Sheriff must summon the individual or Posse branch for assistance, the Posse carries no law enforcement authority until an individual is qualified to assist with law enforcement functions and is activated.”

    I’ve been working a lot lately and can’t find the time to go through the documents. Is there any indication of who paid for Zullo’s travel expenses to Seattle?

  85. avatar
    Pete November 3, 2015 at 6:54 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Your point?

    Zullo would have to be crazy to release a bogus table that could easily be (and was) exposed. Whoever originally supplied the table knew where it came from.

    My point is, let’s say that I’m investigating something important (like the birth certificate of the President of the United States).

    Someone shows me an image with some data specifications that seem to indicate that something funny is going on. For example, in the specs, the code “9” indicates that the race is “not stated.” This person (presumably, Jerome Corsi) says, “This comes from the 1961 Vital Statistics Instruction Manual.

    What’s my first and immediate reaction? It’s, “Show me the full manual.”

    This is happening in every event. But it’s especially true if I’m going to get in front of cameras and members of the press and say I’ve got “proof” the President’s birth certificate is a forgery.

    This isn’t the slightest kind of stretch. This is kindergarten basic. Or at least college student basic. You don’t have to be any kind of professional investigator to know this. The average college student could tell you, if you’re going to go on TV and claim you’ve got proof the birth certificate of the President of the United States is a forgery, then you need to see the original document that constitutes that proof.

    In this case, it looks to me like they may have relied on an article from the web site called “The Daily Pen,” that put up one of the images they used, that also claimed the image was from 1961.

    But if I’m an investigator, I’m going to go the Daily Pen and ask them where they got the original.

    A real investigator just doesn’t go in front of TV cameras and claim to have “proof” that the birth certificate of the President of the United States is a “forgery” without seeing the actual documents that are supposed to comprise that “proof.”

    So that’s why I say Zullo would have to have been a bad investigator.

    As far as Arpaio, the guy has, what? 50 years of law enforcement experience? Surely he knows that you don’t make really major claims (“I have proof the President’s birth certificate is a forgery”) without seeing the original documents those claims are going to be based on.

    When it comes to putting something out that they knew was bogus (or at least suspect) I don’t think they ever imagined that anyone would be able to find source documentation to contradict them.

    I can easily see Jerome Corsi saying to Zullo and/or Arpaio: “No, I don’t really have the 1961 Vital Statistics Instruction Manual, but I’ve checked in all of the right places. And they’ve told me it just no longer exists. So no one else is ever going to be able to get it, either. This might or might not be exactly the same as the 1961 specs, but no one’s ever going to be able to prove it isn’t.”

    So I don’t think that anyone there believed it was possible for someone to expose that the table was a false one.

  86. avatar
    Jim November 3, 2015 at 7:26 pm #

    Lemons tweet: “Zullo 2Snow: “I’m out in limbo. I’ve basically been abandoned.” Said it was “unnerving” to be on teleconference.? ”

    I keep thinking about all Zullo’s boasting, threatening with investigation, we know who you are, etc BS….Zullo must be hating karma about now.

  87. avatar
    tes November 3, 2015 at 8:11 pm #

    Lupin: So you think it is not the Montgomery “cache” of documents, but internal communications within the Posse that Zullo is trying to keep under wraps?

    Just to be clear, we KNOW pretty precisely what the documents are = thanks to the privilege log. And they are in fact nearly all (a) Zullo-Montgomery communications; (b) Zullo-MCSO communications; (c) audio files from Zullo’s computer; and (d) video files from Zullo’s computer.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I have no reason to think Montgomery was a topic of discussion.

    I think there is reason to speculate that – at a minimum – Montgomery-produced information WAS a topic of discussion, for reasons stated previously …in 2012, Flynn/Blixseth were getting info from Montgomery re: purported DOJ-opposing attorney conspiracies, DOJ wiretapping/hacking, etc. ….

    (EDITED b/c I keep getting my dates wrong … but see May 2013 Flynn letter for timing re: 2012 info from Montgomery)

    bgansel9: I’ve been working a lot lately and can’t find the time to go through the documents. Is there any indication of who paid for Zullo’s travel expenses to Seattle?

    Yes. MCSO paid them.

  88. avatar
    Pete November 3, 2015 at 8:24 pm #

    tes: Yes. MCSO paid them.

    And Zullo is not known to have ever held any position with the MCSO, only with the volunteer CCP.

    But of course the CCP was not involved in this in any way.

  89. avatar
    RanTalbott November 3, 2015 at 9:38 pm #

    Pete: So I don’t think that anyone there believed it was possible for someone to expose that the table was a false one.

    A particularly stupid belief, since I did it even before I read that it was from the wrong year. Zullo claimed it applied to the “business or occupation” field, when it clearly said, right on the page the put in the video, that it was only for race.

    Pete: Surely he knows that you don’t make really major claims (“I have proof the President’s birth certificate is a forgery”) without seeing the original documents those claims are going to be based on.

    I’m sure he knows that you don’t do it when you’re trying to go to court. But the rules are different when your objective is to separate fools and their money.

    I’m sure he also knows that you don’t keep a serial screw-up like Zullo on the case when you’re attempting to get judicial, or even Congressional, action. While I’m willing to believe that a technological illiterate like Arpaio can be fooled by the phony “experts”, it’s not credible that he failed to see that Zullo got the wrong coding sheet, applied it to something that explicitly said it wasn’t applicable to, then lied about it. If a real cop did that, he’d be lucky if he were only suspended, instead of being fired.

  90. avatar
    ArthurWankspittle November 4, 2015 at 4:15 am #

    Pete: How about, “Obots Announce Mike Zullo Criminal Defense Fund?”

    Organisation for Benevolent Aid for Mike’s Advocacy?

    Two points here: are the plaintiffs actually that bothered about Zullo going all 5th amendment? At this stage it is a civil case and all Mikey has done is made it look like there is something to hide. Secondly, this is Zullo panicking. Everyone else on the defence side is looking to admit a little and put everything else down as interpretation or misunderstanding. Zullo has gone full “Oh shit!” mode – “I’m going to get prosecuted for x,y and z” and messed things up by breaking ranks.

  91. avatar
    Curious George November 4, 2015 at 5:05 am #

    Ran Talbot

    “…it’s not credible that he failed to see that Zullo got the wrong coding sheet, applied it to something that explicitly said it wasn’t applicable to, then lied about it. If a real cop did that, he’d be lucky if he were only suspended, instead of being fired.”

    But then again, he’s working for Joe Arpaio.

  92. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) November 4, 2015 at 5:44 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It suggests to me multiple authors. The style feels familiar.

    Yet he couldn’t even get to straightening these few words out and instead dumped a lousy copy/paste job in front of the judge.
    Also I don’t think this “there’s a lawyer advising me but he’s not yet representing me” crap will impress Snow.

  93. avatar
    Curious George November 4, 2015 at 1:57 pm #

    The latest from Stephen Lemons:

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/joe-arpaios-birther-buddy-in-court-while-joe-whines-for-cash-7797445

  94. avatar
    roadburner November 4, 2015 at 2:21 pm #

    Curious George:
    The latest from Stephen Lemons:

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/joe-arpaios-birther-buddy-in-court-while-joe-whines-for-cash-7797445

    well, from the e-mail arpaio is sending out, he obviously has no morals, and knows he’s in the crap.

    it’s a pity someone couldn’t get hold of his mailing list and send a statement of his net worth to the people who he’s trying to sucker money out of (again)

  95. avatar
    Pete November 4, 2015 at 2:40 pm #

    That would be pretty cool.

  96. avatar
    Pete November 4, 2015 at 2:52 pm #

    Excerpts:

    —————————-

    “…I’m now also the victim of lawsuits waged against me because I’m tough on crime and because I oppose illegal immigration and the myriad of problems it brings with it.

    [Really? I thought it was because you were in admitted contempt of court for continuing to engage in a pattern of racial profiling and such things as confiscating IDs, hiding evidence from the court-appointed monitor, etc.]

    I’m just a county sheriff – not some super-wealthy celebrity attorney – and I simply do not have the personal wealth to pay the fees for my defense against these lawsuits…

    Unlike a political campaign, THERE ARE NO LIMITS to how much you can give…

    I’m determined to stand up to the personal, politically-motivated intimidation campaign being mounted against me for refusing to look the other way while the rule of law is trampled on by leftist antagonists – but I can’t do it without your help.”

    [Personal, politically-motivated intimidation campaign? You mean, kinda like having people falsely arrested and prosecuted on trumped-up charges?]

    —————————-

    Meanwhile, Joe Arpaio is wealthy, with real estate holdings estimated at a couple million dollars, currently has no legal bills – since they’re all being paid by Maricopa County – and won’t need to hire any lawyers at all until and unless he’s referred for criminal prosecution.

  97. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 4, 2015 at 2:57 pm #

    That’s not correct. The County is not paying for Arpaio’s criminal attorney, Mel McDonald.

    Pete: Meanwhile, Joe Arpaio is wealthy, currently has no legal bills – since they’re all being paid by Maricopa County

  98. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 4, 2015 at 3:01 pm #

    At a telephonic status conference yesterday, Zullo lamented the County’s refusal to provide him an attorney:

    “I feel like I’m in limbo,” Zullo told the court. “I’ve basically been abandoned.”

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/joe-arpaios-birther-buddy-in-court-while-joe-whines-for-cash-7797445

  99. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 4, 2015 at 3:12 pm #

    Motion in opposition to protective order motion:

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/288267194/Melendres-1511-ACLU-Opp-to-Zullo-Motion-for-PO

  100. avatar
    Pete November 4, 2015 at 3:24 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    That’s not correct. The County is not paying for Arpaio’s criminal attorney, Mel McDonald.

    I stand corrected, then. I was not aware that Arpaio is employing a criminal attorney for what is currently a civil case.

    Given the likelihood that Arpaio is going to be criminally prosecuted, however, having a criminal attorney on the payroll certainly makes sense.

  101. avatar
    Rickey November 4, 2015 at 3:35 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    At a telephonic status conference yesterday, Zullo lamented the County’s refusal to provide him an attorney:

    “I feel like I’m in limbo,” Zullo told the court. “I’ve basically been abandoned.”

    The only way that Maricopa County would consider paying for an attorney for Zullo would be if the county concluded that they need to control Zullo’s testimony.One possibility is that they plan to portray Zullo as a rogue posse member who tried to redirect the Seattle investigation into an investigation of Judge Snow and Obama’s birth certificate. If that is their tactic, it wouldn’t make any sense to provide Zullo with a lawyer absent a legal obligation to do so.

  102. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 4, 2015 at 3:57 pm #

    For reference:

    A letter dated 11/13/2014 from J. Kirk Weibe and Thomas Drake, former NSA employees, was on a proposed list of Exhibits in the Melendres case, exhibit 2265 (MELC198190-91). To my knowledge, the letter isn’t available in court documents, but excerpts have appeared;

    Tes, at WYE provides two quotations from it from hearing transcripts:

    “J. Kirk Wiebe and Thomas A. Drake, both former employees of the National Security Agency, and each having many years of experience in the matter of data analysis for intelligence production purposes, met with Investigator Mike Zullo and detective Brian Mackiewicz of the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office to examine certain data alleged to reflect partial results of the clandestine collection of a large volume of email and telephone communications.”

    “Finally, Mr. Wiebe and Mr. Drake examined printed materials allegedly written by officials of the U.S. Government, in particular the CIA and other organizations. Again, there is was no evidence suggestion or revealing that the documents examined came from any sensitive source or were obtained through sensitive access methods involving specific software and relevant metadata that would enable the collection and processing of network-based or stored data.”

    in addition, references to this letter have appeared in another lawsuit involving Dennis Montgomery, Montgomery v. Risen. In that case the Defense cites additional text:

    [Montgomery] is a complete and total fraud,” and they said, “which, among other things, that the 45 hard drives, among other things,contain a high volume of recordings of Al Jazeera television network,” and their conclusion was, “in summary, this letter certifies that as to the best of Mr. [Weibe]’s and Mr. Drake’s knowledge, none of the data examined reveals or otherwise supports the assertion that the data contained on the hard drive resulted from the clandestine collection and processing of modern digital network communications and is,instead, evidence of an outright and fraudulent con perpetrated on the Government for person gain and cover.”

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/288273689/Montgomery-v-Risen-163-OCT-16-TRANSCRIPT-as-Filed-at-166-3

  103. avatar
    realist November 4, 2015 at 4:28 pm #

    In other words… Junk. 🙂

  104. avatar
    wrecking ball November 4, 2015 at 4:57 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Zullo told the court. “I’ve basically been abandoned.”

    has got to be the quote of the day.

  105. avatar
    Jim November 4, 2015 at 5:40 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    “I feel like I’m in limbo,” Zullo told the court. “I’ve basically been abandoned.”

    I don’t know what he’s complaining about, I’m sure Arpaio’s sent him a bus.

  106. avatar
    Pete November 4, 2015 at 6:27 pm #

    wrecking ball: has got to be the quote of the day.

    Second that for QOTD! 🙂

  107. avatar
    J.D. Sue November 4, 2015 at 7:57 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: [Montgomery] is a complete and total fraud,” and they said, “which, among other things, that the 45 hard drives, among other things,contain a high volume of recordings of Al Jazeera television network,” and their conclusion was, “in summary, this letter certifies that as to the best of Mr. [Weibe]’s and Mr. Drake’s knowledge, none of the data examined reveals or otherwise supports the assertion that the data contained on the hard drive resulted from the clandestine collection and processing of modern digital network communications and is,instead, evidence of an outright and fraudulent con perpetrated on the Government for person gain and cover.”

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/288273689/Montgomery-v-Risen-163-OCT-16-TRANSCRIPT-as-Filed-at-166-3

    —-

    and from that transcript:

    MS HANDMAN (Risen’s attorney): . . . And what makes this conclusion so remarkable is not only may our software be at issue in those hard drives, but the two NSA experts, Tom Drake and Kirk Weebie, are clients of Mr. Klayman, who filed a whistle blower suit on their behalf on August 20th of this year in DC federal court. And so he can hardly denigrate their expertise or counter their conclusions.

  108. avatar
    Curious George November 4, 2015 at 7:59 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    “I feel like I’m in limbo,” Zullo told the court.

    How low can you go Mikey?

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/XgCHOrF5ryY?autoplay=1&FORM=VIRE2&MID=2500&PC=APPL

  109. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 4, 2015 at 8:42 pm #

    I’m finding it remarkable how Klayman is playing all sides of the issue with this cast of characters. He’s defending Montgomery against his detractors, and defending the detractors as well. Tes has a link to the Drake/Weibe case at WYE.

    Klayman seems to have a penchant for whistleblowers.

    J.D. Sue: MS HANDMAN (Risen’s attorney): . . . And what makes this conclusion so remarkable is not only may our software be at issue in those hard drives, but the two NSA experts, Tom Drake and Kirk Weebie, are clients of Mr. Klayman, who filed a whistle blower suit on their behalf on August 20th of this year in DC federal court. And so he can hardly denigrate their expertise or counter their conclusions.

  110. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 4, 2015 at 8:44 pm #

    Maybe for tomorrow. Today’s quote has special undisclosed significance.

    Pete: Second that for QOTD!

  111. avatar
    Reality Check November 4, 2015 at 9:12 pm #

    😉

    I would guess Trump never contacted Robert.

    Dr. Conspiracy: Today’s quote has special undisclosed significance.

  112. avatar
    J.D. Sue November 4, 2015 at 9:23 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I’m finding it remarkable how Klayman is playing all sides of the issue with this cast of characters. He’s defending Montgomery against his detractors, and defending the detractors as well. Tes has a link to the Drake/Weibe case at WYE.

    Klayman seems to have a penchant for whistleblowers.

    —-
    Indeed, a penchant for whistle blowers and creative conflicts of interest.

  113. avatar
    gorefan November 5, 2015 at 12:22 am #

    Reality Check:
    😉

    I would guess Trump never contacted Robert.

    He gave Trump his e-mail address and everything.

  114. avatar
    tes November 5, 2015 at 10:40 pm #

    Klayman seems to have a penchant for whistleblowers.

    As Arpaio noted in his Oct. 2 testimony, “I think Mr. Klayman sues a lot of people.”

  115. avatar
    tes November 5, 2015 at 10:43 pm #

    FYI, the Aug. 20 Drake et al complaint is here (PDF): http://ia601303.us.archive.org/1/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.173438/gov.uscourts.dcd.173438.1.0.pdf

    Worth noting, however, that Summons NOT issued …. (per docket)

  116. avatar
    chancery November 5, 2015 at 11:25 pm #

    tes:
    FYI, the Aug. 20 Drake et al complaint is here (PDF): http://ia601303.us.archive.org/1/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.173438/gov.uscourts.dcd.173438.1.0.pdf

    Worth noting, however, that Summons NOT issued …. (per docket)

    Ooh, that’s an important tell. As I’m sure Tess will agree, federal actions as to which a summons has not been issued fall into a special, super important, secret category well known to lawyers. I can hardly wait.

  117. avatar
    Rickey November 6, 2015 at 12:18 am #

    gorefan: He gave Trump his e-mail address and everything.

    I checked out Buckwald’s Facebook page. It’s pretty much what you would expect.

  118. avatar
    J.D. Sue November 6, 2015 at 12:26 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: I’m finding it remarkable how Klayman is playing all sides of the issue with this cast of characters.

    —-

    I’d love to hear Zullo tell us the fascinating story about how Klayman got involved.

    From Freedum Friday (7/10/15):

    ZULLO: Larry Klayman is the founder of Freedom Watch. A very talented attorney. I can’t go into particulars in how he got involved, but I would like to say one thing: I’ve come to know Larry now over three years. And one thing I can tell you about Larry Klayman: Larry Klayman is a patriot. You know, some people bleed patriotism. Larry Klayman bleeds patriotism. He loves his country. And he goes and he takes a lotta hits for trying to do the things that are right. … It’s gonna be a fascinating story when it finally does come out how he became involved.

  119. avatar
    RanTalbott November 6, 2015 at 1:30 pm #

    J.D. Sue: Larry Klayman bleeds patriotism.

    So, when he bleeds out, is he “expatriated”?

  120. avatar
    roadburner November 6, 2015 at 2:04 pm #

    maybe that’s where zullo got the idea about taking the 5th as klayman knows about that perfectly, invoking it when repetedly asked about inappropriately touching his own kids.

    the only people afraid of the truth, etc……

  121. avatar
    wrecking ball November 6, 2015 at 3:33 pm #

    so, did zullo comply?

  122. avatar
    Nancy R Owens November 6, 2015 at 6:50 pm #

    This kind of hints that things are about to get interesting:

    Stephen Lemons ‏@stephenlemons 16m16 minutes ago
    .@RealSheriffJoe ‘s CCPcommander MikeZullo in court.Snow shot him down on protective order.Gave him kudos4trying.Deets2come #ArpaioContempt

  123. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy November 6, 2015 at 10:38 pm #

    According to the PNT article today, he sort of has:

    “Zullo stated that he could not afford ‘the cost for this type of complex representation.'”

    That was when he appeared before Judge Snow.

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/joe-arpaios-cold-case-posse-investigator-mike-zullo-shot-down-by-federal-judge-7805065

    HistorianDude: But he does not appear to have claimed he needs an appointed lawyer because he can’t afford one on his own

  124. avatar
    tes November 7, 2015 at 2:10 am #

    wrecking ball:
    so, did zullo comply?

    There has not yet been anything requiring Zullo to “comply.” The Judge ordered Jones Skelton (not Zullo) to turn over the docs.

    Whether Zullo “complies” with the subpoena to appear for deposition testimony on Monday remains to be seen.