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The occasional open thread: nutty as a fruitcake

Put your Obama conspiracy comments (I hope not too nutty) that don’t relate to the current articles here. This thread will close in two weeks.

295 Responses to The occasional open thread: nutty as a fruitcake

  1. avatar
    Scientist February 7, 2016 at 6:14 am #

    Hermitian: If he had his crew would have documented that Breitbart had collapsed on top of an incompletely installed high voltage pull box next to the entrance to Starbucks in Brentwood. And the crew might have discovered that water was pooled around the cover plate where Breitbart had placed his foot. This construction zone was not barricaded and had no hazard warning signs.

    Even if that were true, how is that a sign of a nefarious assassination, when that box could have killed any random passerby? And if that was the cause of death, that would represent gross negligence on the part of the utility company. Has his family sued the utility? i certainly would if a family member of mine had died in the manner you claim.

  2. avatar
    RanTalbott February 7, 2016 at 6:43 am #

    Hermitian: And the crew might have discovered that water was pooled around the cover plate where Breitbart had placed his foot.

    Or they might have discovered that, if you stood on the box and clicked your heels together three times, it would open a portal to Narnia.

    Hermitian: This construction zone was not barricaded and had no hazard warning signs.

    Which means that the odds of there being a hot wire in the box are in the same range as those of being struck by lightning on a sunny day.

  3. avatar
    Hermitian February 7, 2016 at 11:38 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy February 4, 2016 at 6:22 pm (Quote) #

    No President benefited from the Grandfather provision. Any authority will tell you that provision was for the foreign-born, like Hamilton.”

    Madison, in the Smith debate in 1789, explains the reason why the persons born in the British colonies were equivalent to those born in the new United States. It explains why Congressman Smith was born in Charleston, and was absent during the American Revolution, but was considered a US citizen from birth.

    However the Madison argument does not work if the father had to be a citizen, because Washington’s father died a British subject.

    Hermitian: The grandfather provision for citizens of the colonies was intended to make their status equivalent to natural born citizens.

    The first seven Presidents benefited from the Grandfather provision.

    It’s interesting that citizens of the colonies did not become Naturalized citizens of the new U. S. government but rathe

    I posted back here because the “open thread” is now closed.

    I’m trying to nail down your definition of the phrase “natural born citizen”.

    As I understand your claim a “natural born citizen” is one who is born jus soli within (what is now) the territory of the United States. Thus birth place (on the territory) is
    the sole determining factor.

    Consequently, a change in the controlling government of the birth place does not affect the status of a “natural born citizen”.

  4. avatar
    Rickey February 7, 2016 at 11:55 am #

    Scientist: Even if that were true, how is that a sign of a nefarious assassination, when that box could have killed any random passerby?And if that was the cause of death, that would represent gross negligence on the part of the utility company.Has his family sued the utility?i certainly would if a family member of mine had died in the manner you claim.

    Precisely. Even if Breitbart did cross the street and did collapse in front of Starbucks, how could an assassin have known that Breitbart would cross the street there, much less step on the curb in the exact spot where the box is?

    Electrocution almost certainly would have caused burns, The coroner found no evidence of any burns.

  5. avatar
    Hermitian February 7, 2016 at 12:25 pm #

    Rickey February 7, 2016 at 4:06 am (Quote) #

    “Hermitian: I was referring to the time of release of the autopsy report.That date was not until April 20, 2012, as first reported on Breitbart News.”

    Have you read the autopsy report? It was dictated on 3/2/12 and typed on 3/6/12. That’s not “many weeks later.” It’s one day later. The date it was released is irrelevant.

    Your comment just proves that the Coroner’s office got the address wrong from the get-go and never bothered to correct their error.That’s what happens when the Coroner jumps to conclusions and doesn’t send his forensic team to the scene.If he had his crew would have documented that Breitbart had collapsed on top of an incompletely installed high voltage pull box next to the entrance to Starbucks in Brentwood.And the crew might have discovered that water was pooled around the cover plate where Breitbart had placed his foot.This construction zone was not barricaded and had no hazard warning signs.

    You haven’t provided any evidence that the coroner’s office got the address wrong. Why would the coroner do an on-scene investigation for what obviously was a heart attack?

    There are so many things wrong in your post it hard to know where to start.

    First I have read the Breitbart autopsy from cover to cover several times.

    Secondly the elapsed time between 3/2/2012 and 3/6/2012 is four days — not one day.

    It does matter when the autopsy was released because the time interval between when it was first in final form and when it was finally released was available to the Coroner to make corrections of any remaining errors in the final report.

    Secondly if it was in final form, as you claim, on 3/6/2012 then why was it not released until 4/20/2012?

    The public first read the autopsy report on 4/20/2012 when if was finally released. That’s when I first saw that it gave the wrong address for the place of Breitbart’s collapse. (I would have said “place of Breitbart’s death” but he was pronounced dead after he was taken by ambulance to UCLA hospital.)

    So to use book publishing as an example, if the author types his first draft (of his book) and makes several typographical errors and all but one is corrected in successful drafts, then no matter when the book is finally published it still contains that typographical error.

    I have referenced hard evidence of the location where Breitbart collapsed and died. The referenced evidence includes still photos and videos. You just don’t accept the evidence. So if you have any photographs or videos or the death scene let’s see them. Otherwise take up your beef with Paul Huebl and TMZ.

    Your comment regarding no on-scene forensic investigation requires that the Coroner guess the cause of death. Otherwise if he waits for the autopsy results then the evidence at the old crime scene is compromised.

    That’s precisely why the laws of California don’t allow this lax attention to unattended deaths.

  6. avatar
    Hermitian February 7, 2016 at 2:11 pm #

    Scientist February 7, 2016 at 6:14 am (Quote) #

    “Scientist February 7, 2016 at 6:14 am (Quote) #

    “”Hermitian: If he had his crew would have documented that Breitbart had collapsed on top of an incompletely installed high voltage pull box next to the entrance to Starbucks in Brentwood. And the crew might have discovered that water was pooled around the cover plate where Breitbart had placed his foot. This construction zone was not barricaded and had no hazard warning signs.””

    “Even if that were true, how is that a sign of a nefarious assassination, when that box could have killed any random passerby?”

    Not necessarily, the pull box was installed close to the RED curb between two obstacles. The two obstacles would prevent a pedestrian from walking along the edge of the sidewalk. The fact that the incompletely installed street light pull box was not barricaded and was missing all hazard warning signs is suspicious.

    And if that was the cause of death, that would represent gross negligence on the part of the utility company. Has his family sued the utility? i certainly would if a family member of mine had died in the manner you claim.”

    How do you know that the family was told exactly where Breitbart collapsed or that a member of the family was taken to the scene? There is some evidence that they didn’t know the exact spot where he collapsed. Breitbart’s Father-in-law was quoted by the press as having said that Breitbart was out for a walk outside his house where he collapsed onto the sidewalk. But his house was in Westwood and the place where he collapsed was in Brentwood. Maybe that’s why the family didn’t sue the city of Los Angeles (or the street lighting construction contractor).

  7. avatar
    Hermitian February 7, 2016 at 2:39 pm #

    RanTalbott February 7, 2016 at 6:43 am (Quote) #

    “”Hermitian: And the crew might have discovered that water was pooled around the cover plate where Breitbart had placed his foot.””

    “Or they might have discovered that, if you stood on the box and clicked your heels together three times, it would open a portal to Narnia.”

    Or they might have discovered that by getting the shock of their lives.

    Did you know that the City of Los Angeles has suffered pedestrian deaths due to stray currents from underground street lighting circuits?

    The City of LA has also had a big problem with Copper thieves attacking their street lighting circuits? They have had many instances of theft of Copper wiring where the thieves cut the hot conductors in two pull boxes and pull the Copper out from one box. There have been thefts of Copper wiring in Brentwood. The total cost of repair/replacement to/of the street lighting circuits is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. As a remedy, in suburban regions of the City, the Street Lighting Bureau has taken to sealing all pull boxes with concrete.

    “”Hermitian: This construction zone was not barricaded and had no hazard warning signs.””

    “Which means that the odds of there being a hot wire in the box are in the same range as those of being struck by lightning on a sunny day.”

    Not true. The problem of stray currents form underground electrical circuits has been the cause of many electrocutions across the U.S. These incidents include many deaths and injuries to pedestrians. The City of New York has had serious problems with stray currents for underground electrical systems belonging to and maintained by Con Edison.

  8. avatar
    Scientist February 7, 2016 at 3:50 pm #

    Hermitian: There are so many things wrong in your post it hard to know where to start.

    Would you mind answering the following question-has Breitbart’s family sued the utility company? Because an unmarked live box on a public street that electrocuted someone would be worth many millions.

  9. avatar
    Rickey February 7, 2016 at 4:49 pm #

    Hermitian: There are so many things wrong in your post it hard to know where to start.

    First I have read the Breitbart autopsy from cover to cover several times.

    Secondly the elapsed time between 3/2/2012 and 3/6/2012 is four days — not one day.

    You’re wrong again. It was typed on 3/6/12 but it was dictated on 3/2/12. Look at the bottom of page 7:

    D-03/02/12
    T-03/06/12

    “D” means “dictated” and “T” means “typed.”

    It does matter when the autopsy was released because the time interval between when it was first in final form and when it was finally released was available to the Coroner to make corrections of any remaining errors in the final report.

    Secondly if it was in final form, as you claim, on 3/6/2012 then why was it not released until 4/20/2012?

    Nonsense. I didn’t say that it was in its final form. The Toxicology Report wasn’t completed until 4/9/12. It says so right at the bottom of the report: “Report Date: Tuesday, April 09, 2012.” The autopsy report couldn’t be released before the Toxicology Report was completed because it could have contained something significant which would cause the coroner to revise his report. Then the report had to be reviewed for necessary redactions to protect the privacy of Breitbart’s family.

    The public first read the autopsy report on 4/20/2012 when if was finally released.That’s when I first saw that it gave the wrong address for the place of Breitbart’s collapse.

    You haven’t produced any convincing evidence that the report has the wrong address. In fact, the coroner’s investigator, Mario Sainz, says that he got his information from the LAFD paramedic report. In my work i have read thousands of paramedic reports, and they always include the address where the paramedics attended to the injured or sick person. This tells me that the paramedics treated Breitbart in front of 148 S. Barrington Avenue. If, as you claim, Breitbart actually collapsed by Starbucks, it means that someone dragged him across the street before the paramedics got there. Do you believe that?

  10. avatar
    Hermitian February 7, 2016 at 6:32 pm #

    Scientist February 7, 2016 at 3:50 pm (Quote) #

    “”Hermitian: There are so many things wrong in your post it hard to know where to start.””

    “Would you mind answering the following question-has Breitbart’s family sued the utility company? Because an unmarked live box on a public street that electrocuted someone would be worth many millions.”

    How would that be possible if the authorities hid the true location of Breitbart’s collapse from the family? Even Breitbart’s Father-in-law never placed his collapse in front of the Brentwood Lounge, much less in front of Starbucks.

    Obviously, the authorities were not trying to polish Breitbart’s reputation by claiming that he collapsed in front of the Brentwood Lounge. After, information was released prematurely by the Coroner’s office to the press, there was much speculation to the cause of his death involving drugs and/or alcohol. When The Coroner is happy to talk to the press while withholding information critical to the circumstances of Breitbart’s death, the public is badly served.

    See:


    http://www.alternet.org/story/154463/what_really_killed_andrew_breitbart_the_likely_cause_of_death_the_mainstream_media_ignored/

    ALTERNET

    Drugs

    What Really Killed Andrew Breitbart?

    The Likely Cause of Death The Mainstream Media Ignored

    Not a single mainstream media outlet or website dared to publicly raise the question of substances. Instead, the media began giving airtime to right-wing conspiracy theories.

    By Maer Roshan, Hunter R. Slayton / The Fix

    March 8, 2012

    Breitbart did not deserve this attack on his reputation. After the toxicology results came back the Coroner reported that his alcohol level was low and there was no indication of illicit drugs in his system.

    A lot of good that did !

  11. avatar
    Hermitian February 7, 2016 at 8:21 pm #

    Rickey February 7, 2016 at 4:49 pm (Quote) #

    “”Hermitian: There are so many things wrong in your post it hard to know where to start.

    First I have read the Breitbart autopsy from cover to cover several times.

    Secondly the elapsed time between 3/2/2012 and 3/6/2012 is four days — not one day.””

    “You’re wrong again. It was typed on 3/6/12 but it was dictated on 3/2/12. Look at the bottom of page 7:

    D-03/02/12

    T-03/06/12

    “D” means “dictated” and “T” means “typed.”

    So where did you get “It’s one day later” from? You’re just moving the goal posts around here.

    “”It does matter when the autopsy was released because the time interval between when it was first in final form and when it was finally released was available to the Coroner to make corrections of any remaining errors in the final report.””
    “”Secondly if it was in final form, as you claim, on 3/6/2012 then why was it not released until 4/20/2012?””

    “Nonsense. I didn’t say that it was in its final form. The Toxicology Report wasn’t completed until 4/9/12. It says so right at the bottom of the report: “Report Date: Tuesday, April 09, 2012.” The autopsy report couldn’t be released before the Toxicology Report was completed because it could have contained something significant which would cause the coroner to revise his report. Then the report had to be reviewed for necessary redactions to protect the privacy of Breitbart’s family.

    Ok so you whittled the dead time down to 11 days (from April 09 to Apr 20). It doesn’t take two weeks to make two redactions from the text. Try harder next time. You do realize that the Coroner’s office was talking to the press as early as 03/05/2012? They made absolutely no effort to correct any of the false reports swirling around about the circumstances of Breitbarts collapse.

    The family just had to “wing it” while desparately trying to salvage Breitbart’s reputation.

    See:

    http://www.ibtimes.com/andrew-breitbarts-cause-death-deferred-pending-coroner-exams-420540

    Andrew Breitbart’s Cause of Death ‘Deferred’ Pending Coroner Exams
    By Connor Adams Sheets @ConnorASheets On 03/05/12 AT 11:04 AM

    Andrew Breitbart’s cause of death ruling is deferred pending results of toxicological and microscopic studies, the Los Angeles County Department of Coroner has said.

    Craig R. Harvey, chief coroner investigator and chief of operations for the Los Angeles Coroner’s Office, provided a detailed update on the investigation into conservative journalist Andrew Breitbart’s cause of death in a Friday e-mail:

    The Los Angeles County Coroner has concluded the examination of Mr. Andrew James Breitbart. The examination took place, today, 03/02/2012. The final cause of death has been Deferred pending the receipt of toxicological and microscopic studies, Harvey wrote. It is anticipated that these test results should be available in 4 to 6 weeks. Once the results have been received and evaluated, a final cause of death will be entered for Mr. Breitbart.

    For now, Harvey says the inquiry into Andrew Breitbart’s cause of death is ongoing:

    No further information or reports will be available until the final cause of death is established, Harvey wrote.

    —————

    Ed Winter, a spokesman for the Los Angeles Department of Coroner told Reuters that Breitbart had some medical issues, hadn’t seen a doctor in over a year and we don’t have his medical history yet, but declined to address specific details about his health.

    “”The public first read the autopsy report on 4/20/2012 when if was finally released.That’s when I first saw that it gave the wrong address for the place of Breitbart’s collapse.””

    “You haven’t produced any convincing evidence that the report has the wrong address. In fact, the coroner’s investigator, Mario Sainz, says that he got his information from the LAFD paramedic report. In my work i have read thousands of paramedic reports, and they always include the address where the paramedics attended to the injured or sick person. This tells me that the paramedics treated Breitbart in front of 148 S. Barrington Avenue. If, as you claim, Breitbart actually collapsed by Starbucks, it means that someone dragged him across the street before the paramedics got there. Do you believe that?”

    What about Huebl’s on-site still photos and his videos. Are you calling Huebl a liar? Why would he go to the trouble to shoot a faux video of the wrong location and then sell it to TMZ as genuine? Don’t you believe that TMZ would verify what they bought before they paid Huebl and then promptly deep sixed it? Have you contacted TMZ?

    It might help if you would check your facts instead of just bloviating. From the Coroner’s report:

    “SYNOPSIS
    “ACCORDING TO ALL OF THE REPORTED INFORMATION, ON 02/29/12, AT ABOUT AT ABOUT 2330 HRS A BYSTANDER SAW THE DECEDENT COLLAPSE AT 148 S. BARRINGTON AVE. 911 WAS DIALED . THE DECEDENT WAS TRANSPORTED TO THE HOSPITAL VIA AMBULANCE. DESPITE ALL LIFE SAVING MEASURES HE EXPIRED ON 03/01/12, AT 0019 HRS. HE HAD A CONTUSION ON HIS FOREHEAD, PROBABLY WHEN HE COLLAPSED ON THE SIDEWALK. NO FOUL PLAY IS SUSPECTED. HE HAD A HISTORY OF CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE.”
    ———-

    ” According to the paramedic report; on 02/29/2012, at 233 hours, LAFD RA “59 received a 911 call of a man down at the location. The decedent was witnessed to collapse by a unknown person. Upon arrival, paramedics found the decedent not breathing. Parametrics administered four doses of Epinephrine and shocked him four times. The decedent was then transported to the hospital via ambulance.”

    So the coroner purported that the address of 148 S. Barrington Ave. was reported by some unknown person. The unknown person was never identified much less interviewed by anyone.

    The ambulance crew reported that there was “a man down at the location”.

    These are a lot of words that add up to the Coroner dropped the ball and you don’t know what you are talking about.

    There’s no doubt that the Coroner totally failed in his sworn duty to investigate the circumstances of Brietbart’s death.

  12. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund February 7, 2016 at 8:32 pm #

    I see Hermie is back. It must mean I’m on vacation again.

  13. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund February 7, 2016 at 8:41 pm #

    Hermitian: Your comment just proves that the Coroner’s office got the address wrong from the get-go and never bothered to correct their error. That’s what happens when the Coroner jumps to conclusions and doesn’t send his forensic team to the scene. If he had his crew would have documented that Breitbart had collapsed on top of an incompletely installed high voltage pull box next to the entrance to Starbucks in Brentwood. And the crew might have discovered that water was pooled around the cover plate where Breitbart had placed his foot. This construction zone was not barricaded and had no hazard warning signs.

    Coroners don’t have forensics teams. The pullbox the alleged witness claims he collapsed on was a complete installation finished 6-9 months earlier. This was not an active construction zone, and the pullbox was properly installed.

  14. avatar
    Hermitian February 7, 2016 at 9:50 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund February 7, 2016 at 8:32 pm (Quote) #

    I see Hermie is back. It must mean I’m on vacation again.

    You were always on vacation.

  15. avatar
    Hermitian February 7, 2016 at 9:52 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund February 7, 2016 at 8:41 pm (Quote) #
    “”Hermitian: Your comment just proves that the Coroner’s office got the address wrong from the get-go and never bothered to correct their error. That’s what happens when the Coroner jumps to conclusions and doesn’t send his forensic team to the scene. If he had his crew would have documented that Breitbart had collapsed on top of an incompletely installed high voltage pull box next to the entrance to Starbucks in Brentwood. And the crew might have discovered that water was pooled around the cover plate where Breitbart had placed his foot. This construction zone was not barricaded and had no hazard warning signs.””
    “”Coroners don’t have forensics teams.””

    From the coroner’s report:

    “Scene Description:”

    “Coroner personnel did not visit the scene.”

    Whatever you call the Coronor’s crew they didn’t show up.

    “Evidence:”

    “No evidence was found or collected regarding this case.”

    In California, the coroner is charged with determining the “circumstances of death” in the case of all unattended deaths.

    “The pullbox the alleged witness claims he collapsed on was a complete installation finished 6-9 months earlier.”

    And your dated photograph of this completed pullbox installation is where?

    And you surely remember Paul Huebl’s report which includes a still photograph of the incompletely installed pull box (at the very spot where Breitbart collapsed and died). And you must remember that his photogarph clearly shows an asphalt moat surrounding the cover plate of the pull box? So you just magically erased that real image in your imagination? And you don’t remember the video of the only identified witness to Breitbart’s death where said witness stood on the curb next to the pull box that Breitbart collapsed upon?

    And also the later photographs which clearly show the asphalt moat filled with concrete don’t exist in your mind either? Or maybe you didn’t know about those?

    “This was not an active construction zone, and the pull box was properly installed.”

    I see – it couldn’t be an active construction zone and the pull box must have been properly installed because there were no protective barriers or hazard warning signs in place.

    I see how all that works in your mind, but do you have any proof to back up your claims?

    And then there’s the matter of Huebl’s first video which TMZ bought off him and then buried.

    That doesn’t exist in your mind either? And there’s no way that Huebl could possibly prove that he made and then sold his video to TMZ? And he’s just a bald faced liar anyway? And never mind that Huebl is a retired Chicago cop with a sterling record?

    Yep! I definitely see how your mind works.

  16. avatar
    Scientist February 7, 2016 at 10:18 pm #

    Hermitian: How would that be possible if the authorities hid the true location of Breitbart’s collapse from the family? Even Breitbart’s Father-in-law never placed his collapse in front of the Brentwood Lounge, much less in front of Starbucks.

    But now that you have revealed “the truth” they should be suing, shouldn’t they? It seems they don’t believe the story you are telling….

  17. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund February 7, 2016 at 10:53 pm #

    Hermitian: And you surely remember Paul Huebl’s report which includes a still photograph of the incompletely installed pull box (at the very spot where Breitbart collapsed and died). And you must remember that his photogarph clearly shows an asphalt moat surrounding the cover plate of the pull box? So you just magically erased that real image in your imagination? And you don’t remember the video of the only identified witness to Breitbart’s death where said witness stood on the curb next to the pull box that Breitbart collapsed upon?

    I am fully aware of the Paul Huebl photograph of the completed installation of the streetlighting pullbox. I have inspected thousands of completed installations just like it. I also know many of the details of LA’s streetlighting replacement project, which is how I know that the streetlighting in that section was replaced 6-9 months earlier. That wasnot an active construction zone at the time of Breitbart’s death, and the picture is of a completed pullbox installation.

  18. avatar
    Hermitian February 7, 2016 at 11:14 pm #

    Scientist February 7, 2016 at 10:18 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: How would that be possible if the authorities hid the true location of Breitbart’s collapse from the family? Even Breitbart’s Father-in-law never placed his collapse in front of the Brentwood Lounge, much less in front of Starbucks.

    But now that you have revealed “the truth” they should be suing, shouldn’t they? It seems they don’t believe the story you are telling….

    That would be entirely the prerogative of the family.

    But it would be a difficult case to bring because there was no on-scene investigation by the police or the coroner’s office. And there was no collection of evidence from the scene or photographs of the scene.

    The responding paramedics did not record the address and the Coroner’s report stated that the address was provided by an unknown person who called 911.

    There is no record of the police interviewing either of the two purported witnesses.

  19. avatar
    Hermitian February 7, 2016 at 11:42 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund February 7, 2016 at 10:53 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: And you surely remember Paul Huebl’s report which includes a still photograph of the incompletely installed pull box (at the very spot where Breitbart collapsed and died). And you must remember that his photograph clearly shows an asphalt moat surrounding the cover plate of the pull box? So you just magically erased that real image in your imagination? And you don’t remember the video of the only identified witness to Breitbart’s death where said witness stood on the curb next to the pull box that Breitbart collapsed upon?

    I am fully aware of the Paul Huebl photograph of the completed installation of the streetlighting pullbox. I have inspected thousands of completed installations just like it. I also know many of the details of LA’s streetlighting replacement project, which is how I know that the streetlighting in that section was replaced 6-9 months earlier. That wasnot an active construction zone at the time of Breitbart’s death, and the picture is of a completed pullbox installation.

    Well that’s interesting coming from someone who claims to have the facts. But just for the record I have several questions for you.

    After studying Paul Huebl’s still photograph of the Breitbart death scene did you see the asphalt moat surrounding the incompletely installed pull box next to the entrance to Starbucks in Brentwood? (yes) or (no)

    And do you agree that the surface of the asphalt was approximately 1/2 inch lower than the finished surface of the sidewalk and the top surface of the pull box access box? (yes) or (no)

    And do you observe in the same photograph that the exposed edges of the sidewalk cutout and the raised edges of the pull box cover plate constituted a tripping hazard present in a pedestrian sidewalk? (yes) or (no)

    And did you observe that there were no safety barricades surrounding the pull box and asphalt moat? (yes) or (no)

    And did you also observe that they were no electrical hazard warning signs or tripping hazard signs in place surrounding the pull box and asphalt moat? (yes) or (no)

    And do you understand that if the asphalt moat were filled with water from the hosing to clean the sidewalk by the Starbucks night cleaning crew (after 8:30 pm) that a potential for stray currents surrounding the pull box would exist? (yes) or (no).

    And do you deny that at some later time that the asphalt moat surrounding the pull box was filled with concrete to a height flush with the sidewalk and top surface of the cover plate such that the tripping hazard was removed, said thickness of concrete being approximately 1/2 inch? (yes) or (no)

    And are you aware that a stray current of 20 ma @ 60 Hz can constitute a sufficient electrical shock to cause respiratory failure? (yes) or (no)

  20. avatar
    Rickey February 8, 2016 at 2:48 am #

    Hermitian:

    And you don’t remember the video of the only identified witness to Breitbart’s death where said witness stood on the curb next to the pull box that Breitbart collapsed upon?

    Christopher Lasseter self-identified himself as a witness. His name does not appear in any official record. If he did witness Breitbart’s collapse, he didn’t identify himself to the paramedics. The report says “The decedent was witnessed to collapse by an unknown person.” To my knowledge, there is no independent verification that Lasseter witnessed Breitbart’s collapse.

    And there’s no way that Huebl could possibly prove that he made and then sold his video to TMZ? And he’s just a bald faced liar anyway? And never mind that Huebl is a retired Chicago cop with a sterling record?

    If Huebl has proof that he sold anything to TMZ, let’s see it.

    And cops never lie, right? Huebl has also made the evidence-free claim that Whitney Houston was murdered. He sounds like a publicity hound to me.

  21. avatar
    Hermitian February 8, 2016 at 8:52 am #

    Hermitian:

    And you don’t remember the video of the only identified witness to Breitbart’s death where said witness stood on the curb next to the pull box that Breitbart collapsed upon?

    Christopher Lasseter self-identified himself as a witness. His name does not appear in any official record. If he did witness Breitbart’s collapse, he didn’t identify himself to the paramedics. The report says “The decedent was witnessed to collapse by an unknown person.” To my knowledge, there is no independent verification that

    Lasseter witnessed Breitbart’s collapse.

    “”And there’s no way that Huebl could possibly prove that he made and then sold his video to TMZ? And he’s just a bald faced liar anyway? And never mind that Huebl is a retired Chicago cop with a sterling record?””

    “If Huebl has proof that he sold anything to TMZ, let’s see it.”

    Huebl said he did. That’s good enough for me. You say he didn’t but you have no proof. So have you contacted TMZ yet?

    And cops never lie, right? Huebl has also made the evidence-free claim that Whitney Houston was murdered. He sounds like a publicity hound to me.

    Have you ever met a journalist who wasn’t a publicity hound for his work product?

  22. avatar
    Scientist February 8, 2016 at 8:55 am #

    Hermitian: That would be entirely the prerogative of the family.

    But it would be a difficult case to bring because there was no on-scene investigation by the police or the coroner’s office. And there was no collection of evidence from the scene or photographs of the scene.

    The responding paramedics did not record the address and the Coroner’s report stated that the address was provided by an unknown person who called 911.

    There is no record of the police interviewing either of the two purported witnesses.

    Life is tough…

  23. avatar
    Hermitian February 8, 2016 at 10:56 am #

    Rickey February 8, 2016 at 2:48 am (Quote) #

    Hermitian:

    “”And you don’t remember the video of the only identified witness to Breitbart’s death where said witness stood on the curb next to the pull box that Breitbart collapsed upon?””

    “Christopher Lasseter self-identified himself as a witness. His name does not appear in any official record.”

    So what are the names of witnesses whose names do appear in the official record?

    “If he did witness Breitbart’s collapse, he didn’t identify himself to the paramedics”.

    Lasseter was the second witness to reach Breitbart after he collapsed.

    According to Lasseter the first witness called 911. Usually the 911 operator requires a name. But hey — what can I say? This was Breitbart, the most hated conservative on the planet.

    The 911 operator instructed the first witness to start CPR. He continued CPR until a Cop arrived who took over the CPR and that’s when Lasseter left. So Lasseter was not on the scene when the Paramedics arrived. The paramedics then took over from the Cop. So the unidentified first witness was reported to have given the address to the Coroner. Never mind the Cop and the Paramedics who were also on scene.

    “The report says “The decedent was witnessed to collapse by an unknown person.” To my knowledge, there is no independent verification that Lasseter witnessed Breitbart’s collapse.”

    You got the any other witnesses? I didn’t think so.

    “”And there’s no way that Huebl could possibly prove that he made and then sold his video to TMZ? And he’s just a bald faced liar anyway? And never mind that Huebl is a retired Chicago cop with a sterling record?””

    “If Huebl has proof that he sold anything to TMZ, let’s see it.”

    And cops never lie, right? Huebl has also made the evidence-free claim that Whitney Houston was murdered. He sounds like a publicity hound to me.

    Huebl sold his first video to TMZ. Therefore he no longer has the video. He possibly has a signed contract or bill of sale but you wouldn’t accept that anyway. Have you contacted TMZ yet?

  24. avatar
    Rickey February 8, 2016 at 12:02 pm #

    Hermitian:

    The responding paramedics did not record the address and the Coroner’s report stated that the address was provided by an unknown person who called 911.

    The paramedics didn’t record the address? Have you seen the paramedic report? If not, you are just making things up, as usual. I have never seen a paramedic report which did not record the address where the victim was found.

    And the coroner’s reports does not say that the address was provided by an unknown person. The coroner investigator says that his sources were:

    1. LAFD RA #59 paramedic report #1238

    2. Ronald Reagan UCLA medical report

    He goes on to say “I have read the above listed reports.”

    Obviously, the person who called 911 reported a location, but the coroner investigator’s report nowhere suggests that he heard the 911 call or that he relied upon it for determining the address where Breitbart collapsed.

    There is no record of the police interviewing either of the two purported witnesses.

    Why would they? Heart disease kills over 600,000 Americans every year. You expect the police to investigate every one?

    Did your purported witnesses ever contact the police and say that there was something suspicious about Breitbart’s death?

  25. avatar
    Hermitian February 8, 2016 at 12:19 pm #

    Scientist February 8, 2016 at 8:55 am (Quote) #

    Hermitian: That would be entirely the prerogative of the family.

    But it would be a difficult case to bring because there was no on-scene investigation by the police or the coroner’s office. And there was no collection of evidence from the scene or photographs of the scene.

    The responding paramedics did not record the address and the Coroner’s report stated that the address was provided by an unknown person who called 911.

    There is no record of the police interviewing either of the two purported witnesses.

    Life is tough…

    And it’s made worse when the officials look the other way.

  26. avatar
    Scientist February 8, 2016 at 12:40 pm #

    Hermitian: And it’s made worse when the officials look the other way.

    First, after all the time you’ve posted here, even a person with an IQ in the single digits should have learned how to operate the quote function. Please retract your previous post so that it’s clear what I said and what you said. Thank you.

    Second, lay out for me what you think happened, putting aside what the coroner did or didn’t do. Your claim is that there was a live utility box that electrocuted Breitbart, but somehow no other passerby in the time before or since made contact with it. That is such a strange story that it requires affirmative proof, not just, “The Coroner didn’t investigate such a weird and unlikely story (which wasn’t even presented until much later)”. I actually do NOT want public officials wasting my tax dollars chasing down hare-brained stories. So, personally, I am tickled pink by them exercising sound judgement and not investigating your dumb fantasy.

  27. avatar
    Hermitian February 8, 2016 at 1:38 pm #

    Rickey February 8, 2016 at 12:02 pm (Quote) #

    “”Hermitian:

    The responding paramedics did not record the address and the Coroner’s report stated that the address was provided by an unknown person who called 911.

    The paramedics didn’t record the address? Have you seen the paramedic report? If not, you are just making things up, as usual. I have never seen a paramedic report which did not record the address where the victim was found.

    And the coroner’s reports does not say that the address was provided by an unknown person. The coroner investigator says that his sources were:

    1. LAFD RA #59 paramedic report #1238

    2. Ronald Reagan UCLA medical report

    He goes on to say “I have read the above listed reports.”

    And then he wrote:

    “SYNOPSIS
    “ACCORDING TO ALL OF THE REPORTED INFORMATION, ON 02/29/12, AT ABOUT AT ABOUT 2330 HRS A BYSTANDER SAW THE DECEDENT COLLAPSE AT 148 S. BARRINGTON AVE. 911 WAS DIALED . THE DECEDENT WAS TRANSPORTED TO THE HOSPITAL VIA AMBULANCE. DESPITE ALL LIFE SAVING MEASURES HE EXPIRED ON 03/01/12, AT 0019 HRS. HE HAD A CONTUSION ON HIS FOREHEAD, PROBABLY WHEN HE COLLAPSED ON THE SIDEWALK. NO FOUL PLAY IS SUSPECTED. HE HAD A HISTORY OF CONGESTIVE HEART FAILURE.”
    ———-

    ” According to the paramedic report; on 02/29/2012, at 233 hours, LAFD RA “59 received a 911 call of a man down at the location. The decedent was witnessed to collapse by a unknown person. Upon arrival, paramedics found the decedent not breathing. Parametrics administered four doses of Epinephrine and shocked him four times. The decedent was then transported to the hospital via ambulance.”

    So the coroner purported that the address of 148 S. Barrington Ave. was reported by some unknown person. The unknown person was never identified much less interviewed by anyone.

    The ambulance crew reported that there was “a man down at the location”.
    “”

    Have you even read the Coroner’s report? Do you understand how quotation marks work? So you just didn’t get my previous post?

    The Coroner’s assistant quoted directly from the Paramedics report. That’s why he wrote ” According to the paramedic report …”. So your total faith in Paramedic crews is misplaced. Live with it. I am.

  28. avatar
    Hermitian February 8, 2016 at 1:55 pm #

    “Obviously, the person who called 911 reported a location, but the coroner investigator’s report nowhere suggests that he heard the 911 call or that he relied upon it for determining the address where Breitbart collapsed.”

    “”There is no record of the police interviewing either of the two purported witnesses.””

    Well it’s clear that the Coroner’s assistant conveniently connected the address of the scene of Breitbart’s death with the unknown bystander who called 911.

    So if you are now ruling out both the unknown witness and the 911 recording, then are you suggesting, as I believe, that the Coronor got the 148 S. Barrington Ave. address out of the telephone book? Or are you still claiming that the Paramedics reported it?

  29. avatar
    Hermitian February 8, 2016 at 3:29 pm #

    Scientist February 8, 2016 at 12:40 pm (Quote) #

    “Hermitian: And it’s made worse when the officials look the other way.

    First, after all the time you’ve posted here, even a person with an IQ in the single digits should have learned how to operate the quote function. Please retract your previous post so that it’s clear what I said and what you said. Thank you.”

    Consider it retracted. You said “life is tough” I said everything else. There! Was that so hard?

  30. avatar
    Hermitian February 8, 2016 at 4:54 pm #

    Scientist February 8, 2016 at 12:40 pm (Quote) #

    “Second, lay out for me what you think happened, putting aside what the coroner did or didn’t do. Your claim is that there was a live utility box that electrocuted Breitbart, but somehow no other passerby in the time before or since made contact with it. That is such a strange story that it requires affirmative proof, not just, “The Coroner didn’t investigate such a weird and unlikely story (which wasn’t even presented until much later)”.

    Actually I reported the incident to CAL OSHA soon after Breitbart’s demise but they did nothing because they only regulate commercial businesses. So the City of LA and their contractors get a pass on industrial safety. I also made many posts of a similar nature on several blogs in 2012. The coroner finally reported the cause of death as “heart failure with associated heart anomalies. Of course the heart tends to fail after complete respiratory arrest.

    I actually do NOT want public officials wasting my tax dollars chasing down hare-brained stories. So, personally, I am tickled pink by them exercising sound judgement and not investigating your dumb fantasy.

    Sorry one cannot set the authorities aside when they failed to do all of their assigned duties.

    Unfortunately, one cannot examine evidence that was not gathered from the scene when the scene is not investigated. And I have photographs that prove that the City completed the installation of the pull box after Breitbart’s death. I just don’t know how soon that was done. But once finished the pooling of water in the asphalt moat surrounding the cover plate would no longer occur and it would be less likely that water would leak into the pull box.

    The hazard presented by stray voltage is always increased by the presence of water.

    Of course the street light pole is another potential source of stray voltage. The only witness who was interviewed stated that Breitbart said nothing but made a distinctive sound as he expelled his last breath.

    The stray current required to cause death depends on the cause of death.

    See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763825/

    Table 1

    Estimated effects of 60 Hz AC currents*

    1 mA Barely perceptible

    16 mA Maximum current an average man can grasp and “let go”

    20 mA Paralysis of respiratory muscles

    100 mA Ventricular fibrillation threshold

    2 A Cardiac standstill and internal organ damage

    15/20 A Common fuse breaker opens circuit†

    *From NIOSH.1

    †Contact with 20 mA of current can be fatal. As a frame of reference, common household circuit breaker may be rated at 15, 20, and 30 A.

    No examination for stray voltage was done at the scene. Of course when the Coroner misreports the address for an unattended death and does not even make an attempt to locate the scene then some other possible causes of death are eliminated from consideration. A quick determination of a “natural death” by the Coroner eliminates much effort that he is obligated to expend on any unattended death.

    See: http://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/coroner/california.html

    California has no State Coroner or Medical Examiner.

  31. avatar
    Northland10 February 8, 2016 at 7:58 pm #

    Scientist: First, after all the time you’ve posted here, even a person with an IQ in the single digits should have learned how to operate the quote function. Please retract your previous post so that it’s clear what I said and what you said. Thank you.

    I learned long ago that Hermie is just trolling, or he has completely lost his marbles. I suppose it could be both.

  32. avatar
    Hermitian February 8, 2016 at 10:34 pm #

    Northland10 February 8, 2016 at 7:58 pm (Quote) #

    Scientist: First, after all the time you’ve posted here, even a person with an IQ in the single digits should have learned how to operate the quote function. Please retract your previous post so that it’s clear what I said and what you said. Thank you.

    I learned long ago that Hermie is just trolling, or he has completely lost his marbles. I suppose it could be both.

    Did you know that under California law the Coroner must record the names and the addresses of all witnesses to an unattended death?

  33. avatar
    Rickey February 9, 2016 at 12:20 am #

    Hermitian: Well it’s clear that the Coroner’s assistant conveniently connected the address of the scene of Breitbart’s death with the unknown bystander who called 911.

    Wrong again. There is no evidence the the coroner’s investigator either listened to a recording of the 911 call or read a transcript of it.

    So if you are now ruling out both the unknown witness and the 911 recording, then are you suggesting, as I believe, that the Coronor got the 148 S. Barrington Ave. address out of the telephone book?Or are you still claiming that the Paramedics reported it?

    I have no doubt that the coroner’s investigator got the address from the paramedic report, because that is where he said he got his information.

    Are you seriously claiming that the paramedics responded to the ambulance call, transported Breitbart to the hospital, and failed to write down the address where they found him? In my extensive experience with paramedic reports, that would be unprecedented.

  34. avatar
    Rickey February 9, 2016 at 1:01 am #

    Scientist: First, after all the time you’ve posted here, even a person with an IQ in the single digits should have learned how to operate the quote function.

    Yes, Hermie’s inability to use the quote function properly makes it very difficult to figure out what he is saying and what he is quoting.

    So far I have not seen a shred of convincing evidence from him that Breitbart was on the Starbucks side of the street when he collapsed. His only source for that information appears to be what Christopher Lasseter told Huebl. But Lasseter, if he did witness Breitbart’s collapse, never gave his name to the paramedics. So we have only his word for it that he was there. Also, Lasseter told Huebl that he was out walking his dog “after midnight” when he supposedly saw Breitbart collapse. But Breitbart actually collapsed at approximately 11:30 p.m. He was pronounced dead at the hospital at nineteen minutes past midnight.

    Huebl is a publicity hound private investigator who has claimed that Whitney Houston was murdered by drug dealers, and in 2013 he claimed that George Zimmerman’s acquittal was going to lead to race riots that summer. He wrote, “If you live in a large city be prepared to evacuate or put up a fight to win. You will need firearms, fire suppression equipment along with lots of food and water. Police resources will be slow and outgunned everywhere. America may see some combat related population control like we’ve not seen since the Civil War. Martial Law can’t be far behind complete with major efforts at gun grabbing.”

    And Huebl is a pal of Alex Jones, the InfoWars conspiracy monger.They deserve each other.

  35. avatar
    Scientist February 9, 2016 at 6:05 am #

    Hermitian: There! Was that so hard?

    Is using the quote function properly so hard?

    Hermitian: Actually I reported the incident to CAL OSHA soon after Breitbart’s demise but they did nothing because they only regulate commercial businesses. So the City of LA and their contractors get a pass on industrial safety.

    That’s all very interesting, but why are we discussing this here?

  36. avatar
    Scientist February 9, 2016 at 6:09 am #

    Rickey: And Huebl is a pal of Alex Jones, the InfoWars conspiracy monger.They deserve each other.

    Yeah, apparently no one ever dies from natural causes…

    What I don’t get is what this has to do with the subject of this site, even on an open thread. Should we also take on whether Peyton Manning should retire?

  37. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 9, 2016 at 7:37 am #

    The right to keep and bear enough explosives to blow up a city block:

    http://www.bakersfield.com/news/2016/02/06/alleged-bomb-builder-shakes-up-kern-county-desert-community.html

  38. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 9, 2016 at 7:42 am #

    The discussion started with the conspiracy theory that the Obama administration had Breitbart killed because he was about to reveal something damaging about Obama. That’s why I didn’t delete it, but rather moved it to the open thread.

    This discussion is classic conspiracy thinking: “my allegation must be true unless you can explain every real and alleged anomaly that I can come up with.” Loren Collins talks about this in his book, Bullspotting.

    Scientist: What I don’t get is what this has to do with the subject of this site, even on an open thread. Should we also take on whether Peyton Manning should retire?

  39. avatar
    Northland10 February 9, 2016 at 7:48 am #

    Scientist: That’s all very interesting, but why are we discussing this here?

    It’s the Nutty as a Fruitcake open thread. Hermie is just trying to stick with the theme, and IMO, doing a very good job.

  40. avatar
    Scientist February 9, 2016 at 7:53 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: The discussion started with the conspiracy theory that the Obama administration had Breitbart killed because he was about to reveal something damaging about Obama. That’s why I didn’t delete it, but rather moved it to the open thread.

    I must have missed that. So, I will ask our friend Hermie, in the forlorn hopes of getting a straight answer: How do you assassinate someone by leaving a live electrical box on a public street where anyone passing by could get electrocuted? How do ensure that Breitbart and no one else steps on it?

    Also, Breitbart didn’t live and work alone in a cave. Any dirt he had would be on computers or in paper form in his office where the staff who have carried on quite ably in his absence would have access to it. Or at home where his family had access. Or a safe deposit box that his family would have access to. Or the person who leaked it to Breitbart would leak it to Drudge or some other right-wing scandal-monger.

    PS, Doc-Your thoughts on Peyton?

  41. avatar
    Hermitian February 9, 2016 at 8:25 am #

    Scientist February 9, 2016 at 6:05 am (Quote) #

    Hermitian: There! Was that so hard?

    Is using the quote function properly so hard?

    Hermitian: Actually I reported the incident to CAL OSHA soon after Breitbart’s demise but they did nothing because they only regulate commercial businesses. So the City of LA and their contractors get a pass on industrial safety.

    That’s all very interesting, but why are we discussing this here?

    NoseWater started it over under Rubio v Voeltz

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 3, 2016 at 9:19 am (Quote) #

    Hermitian: As an Engineer, I prefer to base my opinions on hard facts.

    You mean like when you claimed that Brietbart was killed by a CIA heart attack gun, or a starbucks employee watering the sidewalk, or an electrified street plate or a jagged street lamp of doom?

  42. avatar
    Hermitian February 9, 2016 at 8:30 am #

    Scientist February 9, 2016 at 6:09 am (Quote) #

    Rickey: And Huebl is a pal of Alex Jones, the InfoWars conspiracy monger.They deserve each other.

    Yeah, apparently no one ever dies from natural causes…

    What I don’t get is what this has to do with the subject of this site, even on an open thread. Should we also take on whether Peyton Manning should retire?

    Someone claimed “I was nutty as a fruitcake”.

  43. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 9, 2016 at 10:22 am #

    Northland10: It’s the Nutty as a Fruitcake open thread.Hermie is just trying to stick with the theme, and IMO, doing a very good job.

    Yeah I’m sorry guys I take full responsibility I’m the one who got him started on it here.

  44. avatar
    Hermitian February 9, 2016 at 10:31 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Yeah I’m sorry guys I take full responsibility I’m the one who got him started on it here.

    An honest Obot

  45. avatar
    Krosis February 9, 2016 at 12:02 pm #

    I thought Breitbart was assassinated by a heart attack dart made of ice?

  46. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 9, 2016 at 12:43 pm #

    The open threads are typically named for the first thing that pops into my head. This edition was named for the fruitcake I was eating at the time.

    Hermitian: Someone claimed “I was nutty as a fruitcake”.

  47. avatar
    Scientist February 9, 2016 at 1:05 pm #

    Hermie STILL hasn’t learned how to use the Quote function. An engineer? Sure……

  48. avatar
    Hermitian February 9, 2016 at 1:15 pm #

    Scientist:
    Hermie STILL hasn’t learned how to use the Quote function.An engineer?Sure……

    There ! Quote

  49. avatar
    Slartibartfast February 9, 2016 at 1:37 pm #

    I think that superstars have earned the right to go out on their own terms (as their bodies allow). If you want to go out on top like Barry Sanders or Jim Brown, that’s your choice, if you want to hang on as long as you can, that’s your choice too. Peyton just won the Super Bowl, so it’s not like he sucks at this point. That being said, 200th win, 2-time Super Bowl champion (Eli didn’t seem very happy about that) and clearly not the same player that he was in 2013, I’d say this is a perfect time to hang them up.

    Scientist: PS, Doc-Your thoughts on Peyton?

  50. avatar
    Hermitian February 9, 2016 at 1:54 pm #

    Rickey: Wrong again. There is no evidence the the coroner’s investigator either listened to a recording of the 911 call or read a transcript of it.

    I have no doubt that the coroner’s investigator got the address from the paramedic report, because that is where he said he got his information.

    Are you seriously claiming that the paramedics responded to the ambulance call, transported Breitbart to the hospital, and failed to write down the address where they found him? In my extensive experience with paramedic reports, that would be unprecedented.

    My suspicion is that the Coroner is using the LAFD to pick up the dead bodies of unattended deaths that occur at inconvenient times. But maybe he needs a refresher course in his sworn duties under California law.


    27463. The coroner shall keep an official register, labeled
    “Coroner’s Register,” with pages numbered, indexed and bound, in
    which he shall enter:
    (a) The name and any aliases of the deceased, when known,
    including such description as may be sufficient for identification
    and which may, in his discretion, include fingerprint records.
    (b) A narrative summary of the circumstances leading to and
    surrounding the death, together with names and addresses of any
    witnesses to such events.
    (c) The property taken from the person or premises of the deceased
    by the coroner or by any other law enforcement agency or officer.
    (d) The disposition of any property or moneys so taken.
    (e) The cause of death, when known, with reference or direction to
    the detailed medical reports upon which decision as to cause of
    death has been based.
    (f) Information as to disposition of the remains.
    (g) Persons notified of the death, together with a notation of any
    unsuccessful attempts at notification.

    27463.5. In lieu of the “coroner’s register,” the coroner may keep
    an official file for each deceased person containing all of the
    information required by Section 27463. At any time after the
    completion of the coroner’s investigation, and the closing of the
    particular case involved, the coroner may photograph or
    microphotograph the contents of the file in accordance with the
    provisions of Section 26205, and, when the photographs or
    microphotographs are placed in conveniently accessible files and
    provision is made for preserving, examining, and using the same, the
    original file may be destroyed.

    Hmmmmmmm…… ” (b) A narrative summary of the circumstances leading to and
    surrounding the death, together with names and addresses of any
    witnesses to such events.”

    So let’s see a photocopy of the Breitbart page in the Coroner’s “official register”.

    There’s no doubt that Breitbart’s death was an unattended death. One cannot live if one is in full respiratory arrest.

  51. avatar
    Pete February 9, 2016 at 2:19 pm #

    Hermitian: Someone claimed “I was nutty as a fruitcake”.

    If the shoe…

  52. avatar
    gorefan February 9, 2016 at 2:38 pm #

    Arkansas ballot challenge

    http://www.arkansasmatters.com/news/local-news/lawsuit-remove-cruz-and-rubio-from-ark-ballot

    Link to suit in story.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 9, 2016 at 3:00 pm #

    Hermitian: An honest Obot

    We’re all honest I have yet to find an honest birther.

  54. avatar
    bob February 9, 2016 at 3:23 pm #

    gorefan:
    Arkansas ballot challenge

    http://www.arkansasmatters.com/news/local-news/lawsuit-remove-cruz-and-rubio-from-ark-ballot

    Link to suit in story.

    David Librace’s Facebook page states that he is also running for president.

    Of course he is.

  55. avatar
    Rickey February 9, 2016 at 3:38 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: We’re all honest I have yet to find an honest birther.

    Hermie still hasn’t explained how his star witness, Christopher Lasseter, could have seen Breitbart collapse while walking his dog “after midnight” when Breitbart actually collapsed at approximately 11:30 p.m. The hospital is a ten-minute drive from the Starbucks on Barrington Court, and Breitbart was pronounced dead at the hospital at 19 minutes after the midnight. According to the autopsy report, he arrived at the emergency room at 6 minutes after midnight.

    The closest LAFD station is four minutes away. Allow at least a minute to get the 911 call and dispatch the ambulance. The paramedics arrive at the scene and begin trying to resuscitate Breitbart. He is unresponsive, so they load him in the ambulance and drive to the hospital. At the hospital he is taken to the emergency room, where the medical staff continues resuscitation efforts until he is pronounced dead.

    If, as he claims, Lasseter was walking his dog “after midnight,” he could not possibly have seen Breitbart collapse, because it was impossible for the paramedics to get him to the hospital five minutes after he collapsed.

    So my verdict is that Lasseter is a liar, that he did not see Breitbart collapse, and he has no idea where Breitbart collapsed.

  56. avatar
    bob February 9, 2016 at 5:11 pm #

    Christopher Booth, one of the New Hampshire ballot challengers (but unhappy with the result), filed a federal lawsuit (Booth v. Cruz, No. 15–518) last year. But in January, the magistrate recommended dismissing it due to lack of standing. And if it hasn’t been dismissed yet, it’ll soon be moot.

  57. avatar
    bob February 9, 2016 at 5:27 pm #

    And: The 3d Circuit recently dumped another one of Strunk/Van Allen’s meaningless petitions: In re Natural Born Citizen Nat. Comm., No. 15–3759 (3d. Cir. filed Feb. 4, 2016).

    A threat of sanctions, but none actually imposed.

  58. avatar
    Northland10 February 9, 2016 at 6:30 pm #

    Pete: If the shoe…

    I have a hunch that whoever made the nutty comment may have been referring to the “substance” of Hermie’s comments about Breitbart and not about Hermie himself. Since he does not seem to know who he thinks called him a name, I guess we will never know.

  59. avatar
    Hermitian February 9, 2016 at 7:06 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: We’re all honest I have yet to find an honest birther.

    Delusional …

  60. avatar
    Hermitian February 9, 2016 at 7:55 pm #

    Rickey: Hermie still hasn’t explained how his star witness, Christopher Lasseter, could have seen Breitbart collapse while walking his dog “after midnight” when Breitbart actually collapsed at approximately 11:30 p.m. The hospital is a ten-minute drive from the Starbucks on Barrington Court, and Breitbart was pronounced dead at the hospital at 19 minutes after the midnight. According to the autopsy report, he arrived at the emergency room at 6 minutes after midnight.

    The closest LAFD station is four minutes away. Allow at least a minute to get the 911 call and dispatch the ambulance. The paramedics arrive at the scene and begin trying to resuscitate Breitbart. He is unresponsive, so they load him in the ambulance and drive to the hospital. At the hospital he is taken to the emergency room, where the medical staff continues resuscitation efforts until he is pronounced dead

    If, as he claims, Lasseter was walking his dog “after midnight,” he could not possibly have seen Breitbart collapse, because it was impossible for the paramedics to get him to the hospital five minutes after he Collapsed.

    Actually the “after midnight” time was mine — not Lasseter’s. When I made my post with the “after midnight” it had been over two years since I even looked at the coroner’s report. So it was just my ballpark time regurgitated from memory.

    So my verdict is that Lasseter is a liar, that he did not see Breitbart collapse, and he has no idea where Breitbart collapsed.

    Probably, the only person who would know whether Lasseter ever gave a time estimate for when Breitbart collapsed would be Huebl.

    Otherwise, the best estimate of the time of Breitbart’s collapse would be the recorded time of the incoming 911 call from the unidentified witness.

  61. avatar
    Hermitian February 9, 2016 at 8:12 pm #

    Scientist:

    Also, Breitbart didn’t live and work alone in a cave.Any dirt he had would be on computers or in paper form in his office where the staff who have carried on quite ably in his absence would have access to it.Or at home where his family had access.Ora safe deposit box that his family would have access to.Or the person who leaked it to Breitbart would leak it to Drudge or some other right-wing scandal-monger.

    PS, Doc-Your thoughts on Peyton?

    I know of no one who claims to have recovered all of Breitbart’s Obama vetting videos. I can only remember one video of Obama and some Black Harvard faculty member.

    A copy of Breitbart’s good videos could be sealed up in a time capsule somewhere. So Breitbart could still get the last laugh.

  62. avatar
    Reality Check February 9, 2016 at 8:13 pm #

    Is his brother George going to be his running mate? My favorite piece by him was Moonlight Sonata.

    bob:
    Of course he [Librace] is.

  63. avatar
    Hermitian February 9, 2016 at 8:26 pm #

    Rickey:

    So far I have not seen a shred of convincing evidence from him that Breitbart was on the Starbucks side of the street when he collapsed. His only source for that information appears to be what Christopher Lasseter told Huebl. But Lasseter, if he did witness Breitbart’s collapse, never gave his name to the paramedics. So we have only his word for it that he was there. Also, Lasseter told Huebl that he was out walking his dog “after midnight” when he supposedly saw Breitbart collapse. But Breitbart actually collapsed at approximately 11:30 p.m. He was pronounced dead at the hospital at nineteen minutes past midnight.

    Lasseter never gave his name to the paramedics because he left when the Cop arrived which was before the Paramedics arrived. Which means, according to your 4 min response time for the ambulance, that the Cop arrived at the scene in less that four minutes.

    Also there are no times given in the Huebl video of the Lasseter interview.

    Huebl’s still photograph of the death scene, taken the same morning that Breitbart died, is irrefutable proof of the Starbuck’s location. There are no “street features” in the death scene still shot that match the 148 S. Barrington address for the Brentwood Restaurant and Lounge.

    Also, the background features in the video also match that same Starbuck’s location. The video was shot at night so the windows in the video background were lighted.

  64. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 9, 2016 at 9:35 pm #

    Hermitian: Delusional …

    Yes you are Henry.

  65. avatar
    Rickey February 9, 2016 at 11:01 pm #

    Hermitian: Actually the “after midnight” time was mine — not Lasseter’s. When I made my post with the “after midnight”it had been over two years since I even looked at the coroner’s report.So it was just my ballpark time regurgitated from memory.

    Wrong again. It wasn’t you, it was Huebl, It’s right on his website, at the link which you provided.

    Los Angeles, CA—It was just after midnight when Christopher Lasseter was walking his little dog in Brentwood. He watched a man he now knows to be Andrew Breitbart crossing Barrington from The Brentwood.

    http://www.crimefilenews.com/2012/03/eyewitness-speaks-out-about-andrew.html

    Probably, the only person who would know whether Lasseter ever gave a time estimate for when Breitbart collapsed would be Huebl.

    Huebl says that Lasseter told him that it was after midnight.

    Otherwise, the best estimate of the time of Breitbart’s collapse would be the recorded time of the incoming 911 call from the unidentified witness.

    The coroner’s report says that the 911 call came in at 2336 (11:36 p.m.), approximately 30 minutes before Lasseter claims that he arrived on the scene. The coroner’s investigator got the time from the paramedic report. I’m pretty sure that the paramedics know the difference between 11:36 p.m. and midnight.

  66. avatar
    Rickey February 9, 2016 at 11:05 pm #

    Hermitian: Lasseter never gave his name to the paramedics because he left when the Cop arrived which was before the Paramedics arrived.Which means, according to your 4 min response time for the ambulance, that the Cop arrived at the scene in less that four minutes.

    What cop? Is there a police report, or even an aided report? What’s the cop’s name? And if there was a cop, why didn’t Lasseter give the cop his name? That said, if a cop did respond, it is certainly possible that one got there before an ambulance.

    Also there are no times given in the Huebl video of the Lasseter interview.

    I didn’t say that times are given in the video, But lt’s right on Huebl’s website, at the link which you provided.

    Los Angeles, CA—It was just after midnight when Christopher Lasseter was walking his little dog in Brentwood. He watched a man he now knows to be Andrew Breitbart crossing Barrington from The Brentwood.

    http://www.crimefilenews.com/2012/03/eyewitness-speaks-out-about-andrew.html

    Lasseter also doesn’t mention walking his dog in the Huebl interview, either. It is obvious that Huebl questioned Lasseter before the video began. In fact, there is a photo of Huebl speaking to Lasseter in broad daylight, and then he had Lasseter return in the evening so he could videotape him.

    Where else do you suppose that Huebl got the information that Lasseter was walking his dog after midnight when he saw Breitbart, if not from Lasseter? Or did your friend Huebl just make it up?

    That is where Huebl screwed up, and his entire theory about where Breitbart fell falls apart. The paramedics got Breitbart into the hospital emergency room at six minutes after midnight, meaning that they had already left the scene before midnight.

    Huebl’s still photograph of the death scene, taken the same morning that Breitbart died, is irrefutable proof of the Starbuck’s location.There are no “street features” in the death scene still shot that match the 148 S. Barrington address for the Brentwood Restaurant and Lounge.

    Also, the background features in the video also match that same Starbuck’s location.The video was shot at night so the windows in the video background were lighted.

    Huebl’s still photograph proves nothing. His only basis for concluding that Breitbart collapsed outside of Starbucks is Lasseter’s story, and as anyone with half a brain can see, Lasseter’s story doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. If Lasseter ever were to be called to testify, his credibility would be shredded on cross-examination because his story doesn’t add up.

  67. avatar
    Scientist February 10, 2016 at 6:37 am #

    Hermitian: I know of no one who claims to have recovered all of Breitbart’s Obama vetting videos. I can only remember one video of Obama and some Black Harvard faculty member.

    Would you mind refreshing my memory as to what shocking revelations it contained?

    Hermitian: A copy of Breitbart’s good videos could be sealed up in a time capsule somewhere. So Breitbart could still get the last laugh.

    Does that mean no third term for Obama?

  68. avatar
    Hermitian February 10, 2016 at 7:33 am #

    Scientist: Would you mind refreshing my memory as to what shocking revelations it contained?

    Breitbart never leaked his explosive material before the appointed time.

    Does that mean no third term for Obama?

    No but he might be the first President trying to sell a colossal but deserted Presidential library.

  69. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 10, 2016 at 8:25 am #

    I do not think about Peyton.

    Scientist: PS, Doc-Your thoughts on Peyton?

  70. avatar
    Scientist February 10, 2016 at 8:28 am #

    Hermitian: Breitbart never leaked his explosive material before the appointed time.

    You said you remember a video of Obama and some Black Harvard faculty member? Were you lying about that?

    Hermitian: No but he might be the first President trying to sell a colossal but deserted Presidential library.

    Does anyone besides scholars ever go to any Presidential library? The only one I’ve ever been to is FDR’s and that’s because it’s near me, it’s a beautiful old house on a gorgeous spot above the Hudson, he was a giant and I’m named after him. There isn’t much reason to visit one where the President never lived. And actually, juicy revelations of scandal would probably boost attendance.

    But, unfortunately, for the scandal-mongers, Obama has been very unfertile ground. David Brooks admitted it just yesterday. And we now live in a era where we know that a candidate could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and only help their standing in the polls. So good luck with any attempt to tarnish the President with some dirt from his student days. No one cares….

  71. avatar
    Lupin February 10, 2016 at 8:41 am #

    Are we seriously discussing that a total non-entity like Breitbart might have been the subject of a Rube Goldberg-inspired assassination?

    Instead of arguing with these people, we should sell them real estate.

  72. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 10, 2016 at 8:43 am #

    Former Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm says Cruz is probably eligible, but should seek a declaratory judgment.

    http://freebeacon.com/politics/clinton-supporter-granholm-goes-full-birther-on-ted-cruz/

  73. avatar
    Rickey February 10, 2016 at 1:30 pm #

    Lupin:
    Are we seriously discussing that a total non-entity like Breitbart might have been the subject of a Rube Goldberg-inspired assassination?

    Instead of arguing with these people, we should sell them real estate.

    Sure, but I’m looking forward to seeing how Hermie is going to try to wiggle out of the fact that his star witness arrived at the scene after Breitbart was transported to the hospital.

  74. avatar
    justlw February 10, 2016 at 4:27 pm #

    Scientist: PS, Doc-Your thoughts on Peyton?

    I want to know Eli’s thoughts on Peyton. Poor guy looked like he just stepped on an open pullbox.

  75. avatar
    justlw February 10, 2016 at 9:16 pm #

    Sources tell New Times that Mackiewicz defied a superior’s direct order not to have sex with the victim in the case.

    Well, that’s one on a possibly lengthy list of “orders given by MCSO officials that I have never considered it necessary to issue as a manager.”

  76. avatar
    Hermitian February 10, 2016 at 9:21 pm #

    Rickey February 9, 2016 at 11:05 pm Rickey(Quote) #

    “”Hermitian: Lasseter never gave his name to the paramedics because he left when the Cop arrived which was before the Paramedics arrived.Which means, according to your 4 min response time for the ambulance, that the Cop arrived at the scene in less that four minutes. “”

    “What cop? Is there a police report, or even an aided report? What’s the cop’s name? And if there was a cop, why didn’t Lasseter give the cop his name? That said, if a cop did respond, it is certainly possible that one got there before an ambulance.”

    So you are claiming that no law enforcement responded to the ”man down” 911 call? Why would I not be surprised, except because I did watch the Huble interview of Lasseter and he said he left just as the Cop took over the CPR from the unknown witness. You remember, the unknown witness who called 911 but wasn’t asked his name. And apparently the Cop didn’t get his name either.

    “”Also there are no times given in the Huebl video of the Lasseter interview.””

    “I didn’t say that times are given in the video, But lt’s right on Huebl’s website, at the link which you provided.”

    “Los Angeles, CA—It was just after midnight when Christopher Lasseter was walking his little dog in Brentwood. He watched a man he now knows to be Andrew Breitbart crossing Barrington from The Brentwood.”

    http://www.crimefilenews.com/2012/03/eyewitness-speaks-out-about-andrew.html

    “Lasseter also doesn’t mention walking his dog in the Huebl interview, either. It is obvious that Huebl questioned Lasseter before the video began. In fact, there is a photo of Huebl speaking to Lasseter in broad daylight, and then he had Lasseter return in the evening so he could videotape him. “

    Huebl first interviewed Lasseter the same morning (Mar 1, 2012) that Breitbart died. That’s when he shot the first video that he then sold to TMZ. He also took the still photos that same morning. He later returned to the scene at night and shot his second interview of Lasseter.

    “Where else do you suppose that Huebl got the information that Lasseter was walking his dog after midnight when he saw Breitbart, if not from Lasseter? Or did your friend Huebl just make it up?”

    Huebl is a crime reporter. We’ve never met except in his comment stream on his blog.

    So you believe that Huebl just made up the doggy?

    “That is where Huebl screwed up, and his entire theory about where Breitbart fell falls apart. The paramedics got Breitbart into the hospital emergency room at six minutes after midnight, meaning that they had already left the scene before midnight. “

    Nope! It was the LA City officials who responded like the keystone Cops.

    Except that you’re claiming that the Cops didn’t show up at all.

    So it was just the Keystone Paramedics.

    “”Huebl’s still photograph of the death scene, taken the same morning that Breitbart died, is irrefutable proof of the Starbuck’s location.There are no “street features” in the death scene still shot that match the 148 S. Barrington address for the Brentwood Restaurant and Lounge.””

    “”Also, the background features in the video also match that same Starbuck’s location. The video was shot at night so the windows in the video background were lighted.””

    Huebl’s still photograph proves nothing. His only basis for concluding that Breitbart collapsed outside of Starbucks is Lasseter’s story, and as anyone with half a brain can see, Lasseter’s story doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. If Lasseter ever were to be called to testify, his credibility would be shredded on cross-examination because his story doesn’t add up.

    Actually, Huebl did what the Coroner’s investigators should have done. And that is to take still photographs of the death scene and interview all available witnesses.

    Obviously, the LA Coroner believes it’s just too time consuming and difficult to take a few still pictures of the death scene with a digital camera or to record the names and addresses of the eye witnesses as required by California state law.

    So wonder why no one but Heubl did so?

    Also Huebl wanted to track down the other (unknown) witness for an interview but wasn’t able to identify him.

    So you are saying that a jury wouldn’t believe the only identified witness to an unattended death? Even after Huebl, an ex-Cop, testified about how he located the witness and then interviewed him at the death scene?

  77. avatar
    Hermitian February 10, 2016 at 10:14 pm #

    Rickey February 9, 2016 at 11:01 pm Rickey(Quote) #
    Hermitian: Actually the “after midnight” time was mine — not Lasseter’s. When I made my post with the “after midnight”it had been over two years since I even looked at the coroner’s report.So it was just my ballpark time regurgitated from memory.
    Wrong again. It wasn’t you, it was Huebl, It’s right on his website, at the link which you provided.

    Well my memory was actually pretty good then.
    I’m not surprised because witness time estimates are at best approximate. But it would help if the Cop had a name and if he had reported the time of his arrival at the scene.

    Otherwise, the best estimate of the time of Breitbart’s collapse would be the recorded time of the incoming 911 call from the unidentified witness.
    The coroner’s report says that the 911 call came in at 2336 (11:36 p.m.), approximately 30 minutes before Lasseter claims that he arrived on the scene. The coroner’s investigator got the time from the paramedic report. I’m pretty sure that the paramedics know the difference between 11:36 p.m. and midnight.

    Wrong! The coroner’s report stated that on 02/29/2012 at 2336 hours LAFD RA #59 received a 911 call of a man down at the location. The time of the unknown witnesses 911 call was not reported. So there really is no solid evidence that there was a 911 call from a witness. If so then there is no name or address for this witness. There is also no record of any contact between 911 and the LA Police or the LA County Sheriff’s office. The Coroner works for the Sheriff.

  78. avatar
    Hermitian February 10, 2016 at 10:30 pm #

    Scientist February 10, 2016 at 8:28 am (Quote) #

    “”Hermitian: Breitbart never leaked his explosive material before the appointed time.””

    “You said you remember a video of Obama and some Black Harvard faculty member? Were you lying about that?”

    That one was released by Breitbart’s business partner after Breitbart’s death.

    Hermitian: No but he might be the first President trying to sell a colossal but deserted Presidential library.

    Does anyone besides scholars ever go to any Presidential library? The only one I’ve ever been to is FDR’s and that’s because it’s near me, it’s a beautiful old house on a gorgeous spot above the Hudson, he was a giant and I’m named after him. There isn’t much reason to visit one where the President never lived. And actually, juicy revelations of scandal would probably boost attendance.

    I went to Reagan’s Library in Semi Valley once. It’s very good. His grave is there also.

    But, unfortunately, for the scandal-mongers, Obama has been very unfertile ground. David Brooks admitted it just yesterday. And we now live in a era where we know that a candidate could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and only help their standing in the polls. So good luck with any attempt to tarnish the President with some dirt from his student days. No one cares….

    If you can believe anything Brookes says. He started out as a conservative. And now he’s been called in along with Blumenthal to do mortal combat with Bernie Sander’s reputation.

  79. avatar
    Pete February 10, 2016 at 11:12 pm #

    Sources tell New Times that Mackiewicz defied a superior’s direct order not to have sex with the victim in the case.

    Well, that’s just inexcusable.

    I mean, any time I give a subordinate a direct order not to have sex with a crime victim he’s interviewing as part of his job, by golly, I expect that subordinate to obey.

  80. avatar
    y_p_w February 11, 2016 at 3:03 pm #

    Couldn’t post to the relevant entry, so I’m posting this here. The Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation is now over. Of the last four, three went quickly, but the last one threatened to kill himself before finally being talked into giving himself up.

  81. avatar
    jacko February 11, 2016 at 3:04 pm #

    You believe, and I believe, and those beliefs are set in our minds and little we do will change the opinions of disbelievers.
    If you only believe what you and others believe then no change is possible.

    If we are unwilling to believe the other side it is all useless.

    Like the birth certificate stuff. It was set forth that all of the evidence produced was supportive of the birth certificate, and, now, the tactic has changed and people are convince that you can not tell anything about the LFBC because it is a copy and you can not determine truth by examining a copy of the original, you have to examine the original.

    Now both sides are unable to prove anything about the other as no one can see the original except those in the HDOH

    More angels dancing on the pin head.

  82. avatar
    justlw February 11, 2016 at 3:25 pm #

    y_p_w: The Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation is now over.

    I listened to the live feed, and it was like wading in slow motion through a sewer, watching helplessly as Internet Conspiracy Warriors tried to talk down one very confused young man who apparently has been eating a steady diet of Alex Jones for most of his short life, by assuring him that yes, they didn’t trust the government either, but he should surrender to the FBI and no, he wouldn’t be “raped by Bubba in prison”, but if he was lucky he just might get a hug from Nevada assemblywoman Michele Fiore.

    Cue Franklin Graham, a group of family survivalist singers, and a few other whackjobs I had not had the pleasure of encountering before, flailing away at trying to reason with him via Scripture and prayer sessions, despite the fact that he repeatedly told them he was not, in fact, a Christian, although he did have a few lovely Old Testament stories he was attached to.

    His gripes included hating that his taxes went to paying for abortions (a notion that of course none of Team Whackjob bothered to disabuse him of), not being able to get marijuana in Ohio, but he couldn’t get a job either when he moved to Oregon, and that Obamacare was designed to take away everyone’s guns.

    “Oh, and I know what you’re going to think, but I believe UFOs are real. They might not be aliens, but…”

    So after a few moments where TW seemed to get very close to unintentionally tripping him to suicide, and a lot of complaining by him that the FBI wouldn’t give him any concessions, he finally declared that he was having one last cigarette and a cookie (uh-oh…), but wound up asking the FBI negotiator if they’d all say “Hallelujah!” They did, and he walked out and gave himself up.

    Now, this may seem like kind of a shift, but after listening to this fever dream for far too long, where this poor guy’s main problem is that he can’t get stuff done in his life because government, I encountered this video of people getting very important stuff done. (#ThanksObama #ThanksPutin) It was the perfect antidote to Y’all Qaida thinking.

    https://www.facebook.com/okgo

  83. avatar
    Dave B. February 11, 2016 at 6:23 pm #

    More of the fabulous stylings of David Farrar’s legal vocabulary:

    “He also knows, thanks to Obama, SCOTUS is not about to address this issue. If he thought otherwise, he would have never run for the presidency. And even if SCOTUS did move this matter forward by some off-chance, the chances are even greater they would simply declare the question “unjustifiable”.”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/02/cruz_his_momma_is_natural_born_thus_so_is_he_comments.html#comment-2508315659

  84. avatar
    Dave B. February 11, 2016 at 7:02 pm #

    Farrar drops another pearl:

    “Actually, it’s my opinion that the last person who could have taken advantage of the grandfather clause in Art. II, §I, Cl. 5 was Barry Goldwater.”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/02/cruz_his_momma_is_natural_born_thus_so_is_he_comments.html#comment-2508210448

  85. avatar
    James M February 11, 2016 at 8:36 pm #

    Dave B.: “Actually, it’s my opinion that the last person who could have taken advantage of the grandfather clause in Art. II, §I, Cl. 5 was Barry Goldwater.”

    I’m struggling to grok this.
    Something something Adoption of the Constitution at Statehood something?

  86. avatar
    James M February 11, 2016 at 8:42 pm #

    y_p_w: The Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation is now over.

    I predict that, given appropriate psychiatric meds, David Fry will be to the Bundy prosecution what Linda Kasabian was to Bugliosi.

    I may have suggested here, when Finicum was killed, that the feds had him in mind for that role as well. If they could be persuaded to give testimony and appear rational enough for a jury, they could be the key to convictions for the conspiracy top to bottom. In fact, ALL of it might come down to securing a conviction for Cliven. His criminal complaint briefly mentions the Big Deal in all of this: Cliven directed snipers to take position on a bridge, and because of those snipers, the federal LEOs chose not to put themselves in harm’s way.

    If they get a conviction on that one complaint alone, I think we can stop talking about “six years” and Cliven Bundy can look forward to leaving prison as a can of ashes.

    Even on the open thread, this topic isn’t appropriate to the forum, but thanks for having it.

  87. avatar
    Scientist February 11, 2016 at 9:11 pm #

    Hermitian: That one was released by Breitbart’s business partner after Breitbart’s death.

    And, what horrible, shocking things did it reveal?

  88. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 11, 2016 at 10:07 pm #

    Scientist: Does anyone besides scholars ever go to any Presidential library? The only one I’ve ever been to is FDR’s and that’s because it’s near me, it’s a beautiful old house on a gorgeous spot above the Hudson, he was a giant and I’m named after him. There isn’t much reason to visit one where the President never lived. And actually, juicy revelations of scandal would probably boost attendance.

    Me! I’ve been to 4 so far and plan to do more. Thus far FDR, JFK, Nixon’s and Reagan’s. I plan to see them all at some point.

  89. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 11, 2016 at 10:36 pm #

    That would seem to be it. If only Obama were a couple of years older 😉

    James M: Something something Adoption of the Constitution at Statehood something?

  90. avatar
    Hermitian February 11, 2016 at 10:48 pm #

    Scientist February 11, 2016 at 9:11 pm (Quote) #

    “”Hermitian: That one was released by Breitbart’s business partner after Breitbart’s death.””

    “And, what horrible, shocking things did it reveal?”

    See for yourself:


    Obama Harvard Tapes Exposed on Hannity

    Published March 7, 2012

    http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2012/03/07/obama-harvard-tapes-exposed-hannity

    Professor Admits Hiding Obama College Video By Todd Starnes

    Harvard University Law School professor Charles Ogletree admitted that he hid controversial video footage featuring a college-age President Obama speaking at a campus rally in support of a radical professor.

    “I hid this during the 2008 campaign,” Ogletree said in the video. “I don’t care if they find it now.”

    The entire video was aired exclusively on Hannity by Breitbart.com editor-in-chief Joel Pollak and contributor Ben Shapiro.

    The unedited video shows Obama speaking at a 1991 rally for Professor Derrick Bell.

    Bell has been described as the Jeremiah Wright of academia. At one point in the video, Obama embraces Bell.

    It’s unclear why Ogletree felt the need to protect Obama and hide the video during the 2008 campaign.

    So how damaging do you think this video is to President Obama? How will the Mainstream Media react? And will it change anyone’s mind?


    Watch the video. Or read the transcript.

    And just remember one video is not videos…

  91. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 11, 2016 at 10:49 pm #

    While the long form birth certificate image on the Internet is itself not legal proof of the place of birth of President Obama, the certifications of the State of Hawaii to the Secretaries of State of Kansas and Arizona are. For legal purposes, Obama’s birthplace was proven.
    Anyone can make up some crazy scenario where all sorts of people are conspiring together to maintain a falsehood, but there’s no justification for such a scenario except as a hypothetical excuse to keep the argument going. If the LFBC image on the Internet actually did have indications of forgery, then one might be justified in some conspiracist speculation, but it does not.

    jacko: Now both sides are unable to prove anything about the other as no one can see the original except those in the HDOH

  92. avatar
    James M February 11, 2016 at 10:55 pm #

    Scientist: Does anyone besides scholars ever go to any Presidential library?

    I was technically a “scholar” (U.Texas music undergrad) when I performed at the LBJ Library in Austin. I have had the unique privilege of watching the three-screen TV in the Oval Office.

  93. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 11, 2016 at 10:59 pm #

    Well, that blows the teleprompter myth.

    But seriously, the only one who would be influenced by that video was someone who would never vote for Obama anyway. It’s pretty tame stuff.

    Hermitian: The entire video was aired exclusively on Hannity by Breitbart.com editor-in-chief Joel Pollak and contributor Ben Shapiro.

  94. avatar
    justlw February 11, 2016 at 11:12 pm #

    Hermitian: Professor Admits Hiding Obama College Video By Todd Starnes

    Bell has been described as the Jeremiah Wright of academia.

    …by whom, other than RWNJs?

    A look at his academic career shows someone with strong academic credentials and a willingness to put himself on the line for causes he believed in.

  95. avatar
    James M February 11, 2016 at 11:45 pm #

    Hermitian: See for yourself:

    Obama Harvard Tapes Exposed on Hannity

    So he *did* attend Harvard. People *do* remember him being there. I never doubted it myself but claims have been made, and you’ve just settled that, so thanks.

  96. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 11, 2016 at 11:49 pm #

    Hermitian: Harvard University Law School professor Charles Ogletree admitted that he hid controversial video footage featuring a college-age President Obama speaking at a campus rally in support of a radical professor.

    He was laughing as he said it. Meaning he was joking and the joke was on you guys.

  97. avatar
    justlw February 11, 2016 at 11:54 pm #

    James M: So he *did* attend Harvard.

    Ha! I remember thinking exactly that when the video surfaced: yet another example of ODS friendly fire.

  98. avatar
    Rickey February 12, 2016 at 2:48 am #

    Hermitian: So you are claiming that no law enforcement responded to the ”man down” 911 call?

    No, I am saying that there is no evidence – apart from Lasseter’s lying testimony – that a cop responded. I deal with police reports and paramedic reports all the time in my work. If a police officer responds to an emergency call, he or she is supposed to fill out what is known as an aided report. Is there such an aided report? Apparently not, because crack investigator Huebl obviously hasn’t seen one.

    Huebl first interviewed Lasseter the same morning (Mar 1, 2012) that Breitbart died.That’s when he shot the first video that he then sold to TMZ.He also took the still photos that same morning. He later returned to the scene at night and shot his second interview of Lasseter.

    We don’t know if Huebl interviewed Lasseter and took the photos in the morning. All we know is that he did those things during daylight. However, Huebl did interview Lasseter at least twice and only a portion of what Lasseter told him was recorded.

    So you believe that Huebl just made up the doggy?

    I don’t know whether Huebl made up the story or Lasseter made up the story. What I do believe is that Huebl was under the impression that Breitbart collapsed sometime after midnight, so he wasn’t taken aback when Lasseter told him that he was walking his dog after midnight when he supposedly saw Breitbart collapse. But we know from the records that Lasseter couldn’t possibly have seen Breitbart after midnight because Breitbart was in the Emergency Room at 12:06 a.m.

    Except that you’re claiming that the Cops didn’t show up at all.

    Don’t twist my words. I never said that. I said that there is no evidence that cops were at the scene. We only have Lasseter’s word for it, and Lasseter has been proven to be a liar.

    So it was just the Keystone Paramedics.

    How so? What did the paramedics do wrong?

    Actually, Huebl did what the Coroner’s investigators should have done.And that is to take still photographs of the death scene and interview all available witnesses.

    Obviously, the LA Coroner believes it’s just too time consuming and difficult to take a few still pictures of the death scene with a digital camera or to record the names and addresses of the eye witnesses as required by California state law.

    So wonder why no one but Heubl did so?

    Because Huebl is a publicity hound who has a record of making unfounded accusations about celebrity deaths. The coroner can’t record the names and addresses of eyewitnesses who failed to come forward and identify themselves. The 911 caller apparently did not give his or her name. 911 operators usually ask for names, but they aren’t going to ignore an emergency call just because a caller refuses to be identified.

    So you are saying that a jury wouldn’t believe the only identified witness to an unattended death? Even after Huebl, an ex-Cop, testified about how he located the witness and then interviewed him at the death scene?

    There is no identified witness to Breitbart’s death. There is only the self-identified Lasseter, who couldn’t possibly have been there because by his own admission he didn’t arrive at the scene until after midnight. His name doesn’t appear on any known record of Breitbart’s death. A jury wouldn’t believe him because his story doesn’t fit with the known facts.

    Q. Mr. Lasseter, according to Mr. Huebl you told him that you were walking your dog after midnight when you saw Mr. Breitbart collapse. Is that correct?

    A. Yes.

    Q. Mr. Lasseter, Ronald Reagan UCLA Hospital is a ten-minute drive from the Starbucks on Barrington Court. Both the paramedic records and the hospital records show that Mr. Breitbart was admitted to the Emergency Room as 12:06 a.m., and the 911 call was made at 11:36 p.m. How could you possibly have seen Mr. Breitbart fall when you weren’t at the scene until after midnight?

    A. Hem and haw.

  99. avatar
    Dave B. February 12, 2016 at 2:52 am #

    That would be as close to rational as David could get with this one. Why that reasoning would have ceased to apply after 1909 is something I’d like to see him try to explain. Sometimes I think he’s just high.

    James M: I’m struggling to grok this.
    Something something Adoption of the Constitution at Statehood something?

  100. avatar
    Rickey February 12, 2016 at 3:10 am #

    Hermitian:

    The coroner’s report stated that on 02/29/2012 at 2336 hours LAFD RA #59 received a 911 call of a man down at the location.The time of the unknown witnesses 911 call was not reported.

    Do you have any idea how stupid that makes you sound?

    If LAFD RA #59 was notified of Breitbart being down at 2336, the 911 call from the unidentified witness either came in at 2336 or a minute or two prior.

    Try to wrap this around your head.

    1. LAFD RA #59 was notified at 2336 that there was a man down on S. Barrington Avenue.

    2. It would have taken the paramedics a minimum of 4-5 minutes to get to the scene.

    3. Paramedics tried to resuscitate Breitbart at the scene, but he was unresponsive. “Upon arrival, paramedics found the decedent not breathing. Paramedics administered four doses of Epinephrine and shocked him four times. The decedent was then transported to the hospital.”

    4. The ambulance left the scene no later than 2355, because the hospital records show that Breitbart was admitted to the Emergency Room at 0006.

    5. “Witness” Lasseter tells Huebl that he was walking his dog after midnight when he allegedly saw Breitbart collapse. Yet after midnight was approximately 30 minutes after the 911 call.

    Therefore, Lasseter could not possibly have seen Breitbart collapse. Since he wasn’t there, he doesn’t know precisely where Breitbart collapsed. As far as I can determine, Lasseter is the only person who claims that Breitbart collapsed on the Starbucks side of the street.

    Now do you get it?

  101. avatar
    Scientist February 12, 2016 at 5:37 am #

    Hermitian: The entire video was aired exclusively on Hannity by Breitbart.com editor-in-chief Joel Pollak and contributor Ben Shapiro.

    All of whom are still alive AFAIK.

    Hermitian: So how damaging do you think this video is to President Obama? How will the Mainstream Media react? And will it change anyone’s mind?

    Not at all.
    Fox IS Mainstream Media.
    Clearly it didn’t.

  102. avatar
    Hermitian February 12, 2016 at 9:41 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy February 11, 2016 at 10:59 pm Dr. Conspiracy(Quote) #
    “Well, that blows the teleprompter myth.
    But seriously, the only one who would be influenced by that video was someone who would never vote for Obama anyway. It’s pretty tame stuff.”

    “”Hermitian: The entire video was aired exclusively on Hannity by Breitbart.com editor-in-chief Joel Pollak and contributor Ben Shapiro.””

    Well from Breitbart’s great success at bringing down Acorn by means of a series of videos, we know that he was a master at sequencing the release of a series of videos for greatest impact. Also, Breitbart was known as a solo act, and one who held his cards close to his vest.

    Looking back to his comments at CPAC about his plan to vet Obama, it’s obvious that Breitbart had more than one video in his pocket that he was planning to release in a series.

    It follows that this first (and only) video that surfaced right after his death, was the first of a series that he had already queued up to release before he died. Because no other Obama videos were ever released, it’s safe to say now that Breitbart news did not have Breitbart’s other videos.

    So what happened to Breitbart’s other videos?

  103. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) February 12, 2016 at 9:47 am #

    Hermitian: So how damaging do you think this video is to President Obama? How will the Mainstream Media react? And will it change anyone’s mind?

    It is 2016. Obama will not run for re-election. How “damaging” could it be in a country that has no options for the public to recall an elected President? With a Congress that refuses to work with Obama anyway? Your pipe dream of some kind of “uprising” that will flush Obama out of office is stupid. Or do you still believe Congress can just impeach and convict the President simply because they think he was “too radical” in his past?

  104. avatar
    Hermitian February 12, 2016 at 9:50 am #

    James M February 11, 2016 at 11:45 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: See for yourself:

    “”Obama Harvard Tapes Exposed on Hannity””

    “So he *did* attend Harvard. People *do* remember him being there. I never doubted it myself but claims have been made, and you’ve just settled that, so thanks.”

    Actually it’s generally accepted that Obama did attend Harvard. The controversy was about his not really attending Columbia.

  105. avatar
    Hermitian February 12, 2016 at 9:56 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 11, 2016 at 11:49 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: “”Harvard University Law School professor Charles Ogletree admitted that he hid controversial video footage featuring a college-age President Obama speaking at a campus rally in support of a radical professor.””

    “He was laughing as he said it. Meaning he was joking and the joke was on you guys.”

    So you are claiming that Professor Ogletree intentionally hid the Obama video from the 2008 voters just to get his jollies off?

  106. avatar
    Hermitian February 12, 2016 at 9:59 am #

    justlw February 11, 2016 at 11:54 pm (Quote) #

    “”James M: So he *did* attend Harvard.””

    “Ha! I remember thinking exactly that when the video surfaced: yet another example of ODS friendly fire.”

    It was Columbia that Obama didn’t attend — not Harvard.

  107. avatar
    JPotter February 12, 2016 at 10:06 am #

    I heard that a known birther is actively campaigning for the Red Presidential nomination in South Carolina.

    Said birther is even getting national press coverage!

    Will Doc be covering this spectacle on the ground?

  108. avatar
    bob February 12, 2016 at 11:20 am #

    JPotter:
    I heard that a known birther is actively campaigning for the Red Presidential nomination in South Carolina.

    Who?

  109. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 12, 2016 at 12:21 pm #

    So for the doubters, how exactly did Obama get into Harvard without finishing Columbia?

    This is a rhetorical question.

    Hermitian: Actually it’s generally accepted that Obama did attend Harvard. The controversy was about his not really attending Columbia.

  110. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 12, 2016 at 12:27 pm #

    Which is contradicted by the “first” video coming out after his death.

    Conspiracy theorists thrive on anomalies, and shifting the burden of proof. Where they fall down is in providing a logically consistent alternative version of the truth. As my comment here, and Rickey’s time sequence show, you’re trying to peddle a self-contradictory story.

    Hermitian: Also, Breitbart was known as a solo act, and one who held his cards close to his vest.

  111. avatar
    Rickey February 12, 2016 at 12:28 pm #

    Hermitian:

    The entire video was aired exclusively on Hannity by Breitbart.com editor-in-chief Joel Pollak and contributor Ben Shapiro.

    So how damaging do you think this video is to President Obama? How will the Mainstream Media react? And will it change anyone’s mind?

    Not a bit, the MSM covered it, and no, largely because Professor Bell was a highly regarded and influential law professor, as this obituary from the New York Times makes clear:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/06/us/derrick-bell-pioneering-harvard-law-professor-dies-at-80.html?_r=0

    As you can see from the photo, Professor Bell had the support of both black and white students.

    And, as this article in The Atlantic demonstrates, the video was hardly news. It had been used previously by Frontline in 2008.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/03/breitbartcoms-massive-barack-obama-derrick-bell-video-fail/254213/

  112. avatar
    justlw February 12, 2016 at 12:42 pm #

    bob: Who?

    Anti-vaxxer businessman with no actual political experience. Doubtful he’ll go very far, especially given his freakishly tiny hands.

  113. avatar
    justlw February 12, 2016 at 12:46 pm #

    Hermitian: It was Columbia that Obama didn’t attend — not Harvard.

    My bad. it’s so hard to keep track of which bizarre, easily disprovable conjectures are the “real” ones.

  114. avatar
    Rickey February 12, 2016 at 1:51 pm #

    Hermitian: Actually it’s generally accepted that Obama did attend Harvard.The controversy was about his not really attending Columbia.

    There was no controversy. It was just idle, evidence-free speculation spread by people who were determined to smear him. They failed.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/102860164/Columbia-Program-1983

  115. avatar
    Hermitian February 12, 2016 at 2:03 pm #

    Rickey February 12, 2016 at 2:48 am Rickey(Quote) #

    Hermitian: “”So you are claiming that no law enforcement responded to the ”man down” 911 call?””

    “No, I am saying that there is no evidence – apart from Lasseter’s lying testimony – that a cop responded. I deal with police reports and paramedic reports all the time in my work. If a police officer responds to an emergency call, he or she is supposed to fill out what is known as an aided report. Is there such an aided report? Apparently not, because crack investigator Huebl obviously hasn’t seen one.”

    So you are willing to give an unknown Cop the benefit of the doubt but not the one and only identified witness? Could it be that you just don’t like what the witness testified to. Or maybe you don’t like ex-Chicago Cops who report what you don’t like? And you don’t like the hard facts that his still photographs and videos put into evidence. Or could it be that you just have to have it both ways?

    And you don’t know whether or not the LA Cops would ever cooperate with Huebl to the point of sharing official police reports.

    In every normal city, that I know about, the standard 911 system assigns the responsibility to the 911 operator to answer the call, obtain the witness’s identity, obtain the address where the call originated from, get the details as to the emergency or crime, and then call out all first responders to go to the scene.

    That callout, in the case of a possible unattended death, always includes the law enforcement agency and the Ambulance and crew. In most large cities, the Paramedics and Ambulance are assigned to the Fire Department and law enforcement consists of the City Police and/or the County Sheriff. In the State of California, the Coroner works for the County Sheriff.

    So regardless of what the Cop did or did not do, the 911 recording should provide most of the answers.

    So let’s hear the 911 recordings for Andrew Breitbart’s death and the recordings of all police and fire radio calls.

    Isn’t it odd that none of these recordings were ever released in the case of Andrew Breitbart’s unattended death. Was it because Breitbart was a well-known ultra-Conservative blogger which certainly didn’t make him a well-liked, and certainly not a politically connected person, in sunny, Southern California

    “”Huebl first interviewed Lasseter the same morning (Mar 1, 2012) that Breitbart died. That’s when he shot the first video that he then sold to TMZ. He also took the still photos that same morning. He later returned to the scene at night and shot his second interview of Lasseter.””

    “We don’t know if Huebl interviewed Lasseter and took the photos in the morning. All we know is that he did those things during daylight. However, Huebl did interview Lasseter at least twice and only a portion of what Lasseter told him was recorded.”

    Actually, the date of Huebl’s report on his Crimes, Guns, and Video Tape web site was March 2, 2012. So at the latest, Huebl shot the stills and video the day after Breitbart’s demise. And at the earliest, it would have been on the morning of his death. Most likely, the first video, which TMZ gobbled up, was shot on the morning of Mar. 1, 2012.

    So again – let’s hear the recording of the 911 call from the “unknown” witness (at the scene) to the 911 operator.


    Los Angeles, CA—It was just after midnight when Christopher Lasseter was walking his little dog in Brentwood. He watched a man he now knows to be Andrew Breitbart crossing Barrington from The Brentwood.

    Beritbart was walking without apparent distress in the direction of the Starbucks across the well-lit street. Once Breitbart stepped up on the curb, as Lasseter put it, “He fell hard like a sack of Potatoes.”

    A man unknown to Lasseter called 911. The 911 operator told them to begin chest compressions on Beritbart until the police and paramedics arrived.

    The very top photo shows where Breitbart died on his back with his head close to the lamp post on the left and his feet under the newspaper vending machine to the right.

    Lasseter described Breitbart’s skin color as bright red.

    I obtained the interview on video but it’s now property of TMZ.com so look for it over there. I will post a link here once it’s available.

    We will be waiting with bated breath for the Medical Examiner’s and the Toxicology Reports to know exactly what cut a young man’s life short.

    http://www.crimefilenews.com/2012/03/eyewitness-speaks-out-about-andrew.html

    So these are the facts. So live with them.

    Unless you can get TMZ to release Huebl’s first video and the LA City officials to release all the 911, Police and/or Sheriff and Fire, radio recordings. And don’t forget that the Coroner is bound by California law to record the names and addresses of all eye witnesses in his official register of deaths. So face it – I’ve got all the facts and you’ve got all the holes. That’s the way things will stand until you get TMz an the LA officials to plug some of your holes.

    “”So you believe that Huebl just made up the doggy?””

    “I don’t know whether Huebl made up the story or Lasseter made up the story. What I do believe is that Huebl was under the impression that Breitbart collapsed sometime after midnight, so he wasn’t taken aback when Lasseter told him that he was walking his dog after midnight when he supposedly saw Breitbart collapse. But we know from the records that Lasseter couldn’t possibly have seen Breitbart after midnight because Breitbart was in the Emergency Room at 12:06 a.m.”

    Nope! All that proves is that witness’s estimates of the time of the event are notoriously unreliable. And that’s a given anyway.

    “”Except that you’re claiming that the Cops didn’t show up at all.””

    “Don’t twist my words. I never said that. I said that there is no evidence that cops were at the scene. We only have Lasseter’s word for it, and Lasseter has been proven to be a liar.

    So you want it both ways with the Cop? In other words it destroys your credibility if the Cop did show up because then you have to explain why he didn’t interview the two witnesses and obtain their information including their names and addresses”. And likewise why he didn’t write down the address of the scene of Breitbart’s death.

    “”So it was just the Keystone Paramedics.””

    “How so? What did the paramedics do wrong? “

    They didn’t treat Breitbart’s death as an unattended death when it obviously was. Also, they ignored other obvious possible causes of death such as stray voltage or a fall due to tripping. Either of these possible causes could have caused his sudden respiratory arrest.

    This lax treatment of Breitbart’s death suggests that, in the LA suburbs, lots of dead bodies are scooped up by Paramedics and taken to the nearest hospital to have them pronounced dead.

    Which leads to an important question. What criteria did the hospital personnel apply that caused them to call the Coroner to pick up Breitbart’s body? Was it unattended death? If so that’s a false report. It’s false because Breitbart was not unattended when he was pronounced dead at the hospital.

    “”Actually, Huebl did what the Coroner’s investigators should have done. And that is to take still photographs of the death scene and interview all available witnesses.””

    “”Obviously, the LA Coroner believes it’s just too time consuming and difficult to take a few still pictures of the death scene with a digital camera or to record the names and addresses of the eye witnesses as required by California state law.””

    “”So wonder why no one but Heubl did so?””

    “Because Huebl is a publicity hound who has a record of making unfounded accusations about celebrity deaths.”

    So you’re sure it’s not that Huebel “knows the drill” and he knows when it’s not being followed? So like the “good Cop” he’s just filling in the holes to keep the folk informed as to how lousy a job the City/County is doing for their hard-earned tax dollars?

    “The coroner can’t record the names and addresses of eyewitnesses who failed to come forward and identify themselves. The 911 caller apparently did not give his or her name. 911 operators usually ask for names, but they aren’t going to ignore an emergency call just because a caller refuses to be identified.

    And all that happened in your imagination?

    “”So you are saying that a jury wouldn’t believe the only identified witness to an unattended death? Even after Huebl, an ex-Cop, testified about how he located the witness and then interviewed him at the death scene?””

    “There is no identified witness to Breitbart’s death. There is only the self-identified Lasseter, who couldn’t possibly have been there because by his own admission he didn’t arrive at the scene until after midnight. His name doesn’t appear on any known record of Breitbart’s death. A jury wouldn’t believe him because his story doesn’t fit with the known facts.”

    Q. Mr. Lasseter, according to Mr. Huebl you told him that you were walking your dog after midnight when you saw Mr. Breitbart collapse. Is that correct?

    A. Yes.

    Q. Mr. Lasseter, Ronald Reagan UCLA Hospital is a ten-minute drive from the Starbucks on Barrington Court. Both the paramedic records and the hospital records show that Mr. Breitbart was admitted to the Emergency Room as 12:06 a.m., and the 911 call was made at 11:36 p.m. How could you possibly have seen Mr. Breitbart fall when you weren’t at the scene until after midnight?

    A. Hem and haw.

    Lasseter: !! I glanced at the clock on the wall as I left my house to walk my dog. I wasn’t wearing a watch so I did my best to estimate the time when I saw the man collapse. !!

  116. avatar
    Scientist February 12, 2016 at 2:24 pm #

    Hermitian: So what happened to Breitbart’s other videos?

    Assuming they exist, which is doubtful, given the complete failure of anyone to care about the first one, I would say Breitbart burned them on the theory that whatever he (Breitbart) thinks would be a negative for Obama, is likely to be received by most people as a non-issue and possibly even a positive for the President. After all, many would say that students supporting a professor of theirs is actually positive,…

  117. avatar
    y_p_w February 12, 2016 at 3:10 pm #

    James M:
    If they get a conviction on that one complaint alone, I think we can stop talking about “six years” and Cliven Bundy can look forward to leaving prison as a can of ashes.

    Even on the open thread, this topic isn’t appropriate to the forum, but thanks for having it.

    There was actually a post on the Malheur occupation, but for whatever reason, the comments section was closed.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2016/01/flash-burns-assault-to-begin-at-4-am/

    In any case, Mormons normally prefer not to have their bodies cremated.

  118. avatar
    Hermitian February 12, 2016 at 3:34 pm #

    Rickey February 12, 2016 at 3:10 am (Quote) #

    Hermitian:
    “”The coroner’s report stated that on 02/29/2012 at 2336 hours LAFD RA #59 received a 911 call of a man down at the location.The time of the unknown witnesses 911 call was not reported.””

    “Do you have any idea how stupid that makes you sound?”

    Says the guy who falsely claimed that 2336 hours was the time of the 911 call between the unknown witness and the 911 operator. So I’m stupid because I corrected you? I see how that works.

    That little hole in your narrative is important because it leaves you with no proof that there ever was a 911 call from the unknown witness to the 911 operator. But I have Huebl and Lasseter who both would testify that there was a 911 call. You really don’t know who called LAPD RA # 59 unless the 911 call from the unknown witness went directly to the Firehouse.

    If LAFD RA #59 was notified of Breitbart being down at 2336, the 911 call from the unidentified witness either came in at 2336 or a minute or two prior.

    Try to wrap this around your head.

    1. LAFD RA #59 was notified at 2336 that there was a man down on S. Barrington Avenue.

    2. It would have taken the paramedics a minimum of 4-5 minutes to get to the scene.

    3. Paramedics tried to resuscitate Breitbart at the scene, but he was unresponsive. “Upon arrival, paramedics found the decedent not breathing. Paramedics administered four doses of Epinephrine and shocked him four times. The decedent was then transported to the hospital.”

    4. The ambulance left the scene no later than 2355, because the hospital records show that Breitbart was admitted to the Emergency Room at 0006.

    5. “Witness” Lasseter tells Huebl that he was walking his dog after midnight when he allegedly saw Breitbart collapse. Yet after midnight was approximately 30 minutes after the 911 call.

    Therefore, Lasseter could not possibly have seen Breitbart collapse. Since he wasn’t there, he doesn’t know precisely where Breitbart collapsed. As far as I can determine, Lasseter is the only person who claims that Breitbart collapsed on the Starbucks side of the street.

    Now do you get it?”

    Absolutely not! You totally forgot about Paul Huebl, his still photographs, the daytime Lasseter interview video that Huebl sold to TMZ, and the nightime Lasseter interview video. Anyone of these prove that Breitbart collapsed on the sidewalk next to the front entrance to Starbucks in Brentwood.

    There is no equivalent evidence that Breitbart collapsed outside of the Brentwood Restaurant and Lounge. That’s obviously just a story that the LA officials made up for public consumption. The TMZ video would also prove that.

  119. avatar
    Hermitian February 12, 2016 at 3:55 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy February 12, 2016 at 12:27 pm (Quote) #

    “Which is contradicted by the “first” video coming out after his death.”

    “Conspiracy theorists thrive on anomalies, and shifting the burden of proof. Where they fall down is in providing a logically consistent alternative version of the truth. As my comment here, and Rickey’s time sequence show, you’re trying to peddle a self-contradictory story.”

    Not if one believes that Breitbart’s sudden death was a big deal regardless of the cause. And not if, as I believe, Breitbart News had only the one video to use to pay tribute to their fallen warrior.

    Missing videos are not an anomaly if they have never been found.

    Hermitian: Also, Breitbart was known as a solo act, and one who held his cards close to his vest.

  120. avatar
    Hermitian February 12, 2016 at 4:12 pm #

    Scientist February 12, 2016 at 2:24 pm (Quote) #

    “”Hermitian: So what happened to Breitbart’s other videos?””

    Assuming they exist, which is doubtful, given the complete failure of anyone to care about the first one, I would say Breitbart burned them on the theory that whatever he (Breitbart) thinks would be a negative for Obama, is likely to be received by most people as a non-issue and possibly even a positive for the President. After all, many would say that students supporting a professor of theirs is actually positive,…

    Breitbart’s own words “I’ve got videos” are good enough for me. His great success in taking down Acorn with a handful of videos would strike fear in any Obama supporter spying at CPAC.

    Just imagine if Breitbart were still alive and had acquired the Planned Parenthood videos.

  121. avatar
    jacko February 12, 2016 at 4:49 pm #

    Even the first forensic examiner of the LFBC said that he could not determine the accuracy of the copy as he could not see the original.

    Dan Rather learned the lesson of depending on the statements of others as to the accuracy of copied documents and the producer of the show, Mapes, lost her job for accepting the documents as to authentic documents..

    both sides of the document went into full battle assailing each others for attacking the positions of each other, and , it turns out, that no one knows what is on the BC as no one can examine it.

    Both sides fought a battle over a document that was virtually useless without examining the original.

    One side believed the government would never lie, and the other side had to depend upon documents that were , in fact, useless to either side.

    this battle will continue until the FBI will be able to confirm the actual facts. If ever

  122. avatar
    bob February 12, 2016 at 5:09 pm #

    justlw: Anti-vaxxer businessman with no actual political experience.Doubtful he’ll go very far, especially given his freakishly tiny hands.

    Does this person have a name?

  123. avatar
    Northland10 February 12, 2016 at 6:24 pm #

    Hermitian:
    Obama Harvard Tapes Exposed on Hannity

    Published March 7, 2012

    So how damaging do you think this video is to President Obama? How will the Mainstream Media react? And will it change anyone’s mind?

    The above was “published” in March 2012. President Obama was reelected in November 2012.

    Does this answer your questions?

  124. avatar
    JPotter February 12, 2016 at 6:27 pm #

    bob: Does this person have a name?

    That’s precious … but not as precious as watching the Republican party squirm.

    And they thought Cruz was the problem LOL

  125. avatar
    JPotter February 12, 2016 at 6:29 pm #

    Is that really Herms going on about Breitbart’s death … again?

    It was the lamppost … in the dark … with its razor sharp, spiny edges.

    This was all settled (and rehashed) long ago on another forum, Herms.

    I really hope that thread hasn’t slipped down the memory hole yet. What a classic!

  126. avatar
    Rickey February 12, 2016 at 6:42 pm #

    Hermitian: So you are willing to give an unknown Cop the benefit of the doubt but not the one and only identified witness?

    I have no idea what you are talking about. I’m not convinced that a cop was present, so why would I be giving a cop the benefit of any doubt?

    That said, if a cop was present, I would give more credence to what the cop says than the word of an alleged witness who can’t establish that he was at the scene when the victim collapsed.

    Could it be that you just don’t like what the witness testified to.Or maybe you don’t like ex-Chicago Cops who report what you don’t like? And you don’t like the hard facts that his still photographs and videos put into evidence.Or could it be that you just have to have it both ways?

    I am a private investigator in New York A big part of my job is assessing evidence and evaluating the credibility of witnesses. Huebl is not a witness. The value of his photographs and video (which isn’t much in any event) depends entirely on him getting the location of Breitbart’s collapse correct. The only evidence that he got the location correct is Lasseter, who has no credibility because his story conflicts with the known facts.

    And you don’t know whether or not the LA Cops would ever cooperate with Huebl to the point of sharing official police reports.

    All Huebl has to do is file a Freedom of Information request for the police aided report, it any, and the 911 call. Because of HIPAA he might have more difficulty getting the paramedic report, but he probably could get a copy which has sensitive personal information redacted.

    In every normal city, that I know about, the standard 911 system assigns the responsibility to the 911 operator to answer the call, obtain the witness’s identity, obtain the address where the call originated from, get the details as to the emergency or crime, and then call out all first responders to go to the scene.

    And what does the 911 operator do if the caller declines to be identified? Disregard the call? Of course not.

    That callout, in the case of a possible unattended death, always includes the law enforcement agency and the Ambulance and crew.

    And your source for that claim is – what? My mother’s death was unattended, and when she was discovered an ambulance was called, but no police.

    The Los Angeles Emergency Preparedness Information Centers says “Based on the needs of the call, the dispatcher will respond with the appropriate level of resources for the emergency. If a person needs to be transported via ambulance, the LA City Fire Department will use its own vehicles to do so.”

    Obviously, if the victim was hit by a car of if there was a gunshot, the police would be dispatched. But for someone simply collapsing on a sidewalk?

    So regardless of what the Cop did or did not do, the 911 recording should provide most of the answers.

    So let’s hear the 911 recordings for Andrew Breitbart’s death and the recordings of all police and fire radio calls.

    Go for it. File a Freedom of Information request.

    Isn’t it odd that none of these recordings were ever released in the case of Andrew Breitbart’s unattended death.Was it becauseBreitbart was a well-known ultra-Conservative blogger which certainly didn’t make him a well-liked, and certainly not a politically connected person, in sunny, Southern California

    Are you serious? Southern California, from Orange County to the border, is perhaps the most conservative part of the state. Irvine, Fullerton, Newport Beach, Oceanside, Escondido, Corona – they are all represented by Republicans in Congress.

    Actually, the date of Huebl’s report on his Crimes, Guns, and Video Tape web site was March 2, 2012.So at the latest, Huebl shot the stills and video the day after Breitbart’s demise.

    Very good. That’s what I told you, so at least you have learned something.

    Most likely, the first video, which TMZ gobbled up, was shot on the morning of Mar. 1, 2012.

    Most likely? In other word, you’re just guessing. And Huebl didn’t keep a copy of this video for himself? If TMZ did buy a video from Huebl, which has not been proven, they may have decided not to air it after they figured out that Lasseter’s story conflicts which the actual timeline.

    A man unknown to Lasseter called 911.

    It could have been a woman, but the call was made thirty minutes before Lasseter came upon the scene.

    Lasseter described Breitbart’s skin color as bright red.

    There is no evidence that Lasseter was there, and plenty of evidence to suggest that he couldn’t possibly have been there.

    We will be waiting with bated breath for the Medical Examiner’s and the Toxicology Reports to know exactly what cut a young man’s life short.

    The toxicology reports are attached to the autopsy report. Apart from some blood alcohol. noting of significance was found.

    Unless you can get TMZ to release Huebl’s first video and the LA City
    officials to release all the 911, Police and/or Sheriff and Fire, radio recordings.

    You’re the one who is making the claim that Breitbart was murdered. I’m not going to do your work for you.

    And don’t forget that the Coroner is bound by California law to record the names and addresses of all eye witnesses in his official register of deaths.

    You haven’t cited a source for that claim either (and there is nothing in the California Government Codes, Sections 27490-27512, to support your claim), but even if it is accurate the coroner can’t list of the names and addresses of anonymous witnesses. Did Lasseter ever contact the police, the LAFD, or the coroner to report that he witnessed the incident?

    So face it – I’ve got all the facts and you’ve got all the holes.

    HAHAHAHAHA! That’s the funniest thing I’ve read today.

    Nope! All that proves is that witness’s estimates of the time of the event are notoriously unreliable.And that’s a given anyway.

    A witness who was observant enough to remember exactly what clothing Breitbart was wearing – including the make of his shoes – but can’t tell the difference between 11:36 p.m. and 12:05 a.m.

    So you want it both ways with the Cop?In other words it destroys your credibility if the Cop did show up because then you have to explain why he didn’t interview the two witnesses and obtain their information including their names and addresses”.And likewise why he didn’t write down the address of the scene of Breitbart’s death.

    First of all, there is no evidence that a cop was at the scene. And if a cop was at the scene, his first response would have been to try to revive Breitbart, not interview witnesses. And since you haven’t bothered to inquire about whether there is a police aided report, you have no idea what the cop did or did not do.

    They didn’t treat Breitbart’s death as an unattended death when it obviously was.Also, they ignored other obvious possible causes of death such as stray voltage or a fall due to tripping.Either of these possible causes could have caused his sudden respiratory arrest.

    It isn’t up to the paramedics to determine the cause of death. The paramedics are there to provide first aid and transport the victim to the hospital, if necessary.

    This lax treatment of Breitbart’s death suggests that, in the LA suburbs, lots of dead bodies are scooped up by Paramedics and taken to the nearest hospital to have them pronounced dead.

    That comment suggests that you could use some help.

    Which leads to an important question. What criteria did the hospital personnel apply that caused them to call the Coroner to pick up Breitbart’s body?Was it unattended death?If so that’s a false report.It’s false because Breitbart was not unattended when he was pronounced dead at the hospital.

    Section 27491 of the California Government Codes applies:

    It shall be the duty of the coroner to inquire into and determine the circumstances, manner, and cause of all violent, sudden, or unusual deaths; unattended deaths; deaths where the deceased has not been attended by either a physician or a registered nurse, who is a member of a hospice care interdisciplinary team, as defined by subdivision (g) of Section 1746 of the Health and Safety Code in the 20 days before death…

    It may have been regarded as an unattended death because Breitbart was not breathing at the scene, but it didn’t have to be an unattended death because it was a sudden death. Sudden death is sufficient to require turning the body over to the coroner.

  127. avatar
    bob February 12, 2016 at 6:53 pm #

    JPotter: That’s precious … but not as precious as watching the Republican party squirm.

    Is there a reason you aren’t naming this birther that Doc is supposed to be covering?

  128. avatar
    gorefan February 12, 2016 at 7:14 pm #

    FYI, Interesting PBS show on President Garfield and the assassination – Chester Arthur is not portrayed in a good light.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/garfield/player/

  129. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 12, 2016 at 7:18 pm #

    Arthur was a machine politician. Hinman’s book, for all its nonsense about Arthur being born in Canada, also provides some stories about shady doings in New York where Arthur was head of the Port Authority (IIRC). [Err, I think it was the custom’s house.]

    Arthur’s claim to fame was that he did better than people expected him to do.

    gorefan: Chester Arthur is not portrayed in a good light.

  130. avatar
    Northland10 February 12, 2016 at 7:55 pm #

    They great irony of his Presidency was that he was the machine politician who ushered in the first civil service laws.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Arthur was a machine politician. Hinman’s book, for all its nonsense about Arthur being born in Canada, also provides some stories about shady doings in New York where Arthur was head of the Port Authority (IIRC).

    Arthur’s claim to fame was that he did better than people expected him to do.

  131. avatar
    gorefan February 12, 2016 at 8:28 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Arthur was a machine politician.

    In the PBS show Garfield selected Arthur to placate the Stalwarts (Republican fat cats) especially Senator Conklin of New York. Arthur is mostly shown as Conklin’s toadie.

  132. avatar
    Rickey February 13, 2016 at 1:45 am #

    jacko:

    both sides of the document went into full battle assailing each others for attacking the positions of each other, and , it turns out, that no one knows what is on the BC as no one can examine it.

    Both sides foughta battle over a document that was virtually useless without examining the original.

    Essentially you are saying that no one can prove birth in the United States without an examination of the person’s original birth certificate. Or is it just certain candidates for president who have to clear this hurdle that you have erected?

    I look forward to your demand that the FBI be allowed in inspect the original birth records of every candidate for president. How do we know for certain that Rubio was born in Florida? Or that Trump was born in New York?

    Then again, how can we be certain that any original document is accurate? If the people who engineered Obama’s election were able to sneak birth announcements into the Honolulu newspapers, surely they had the ability to file a phony birth certificate.

    There is never enough evidence to satisfy conspiracy theorists.

  133. avatar
    Dave B. February 13, 2016 at 4:07 am #

    Battle?

    jacko:
    Even the first forensic examiner of the LFBC said that he could not determine the accuracy of the copy as he could not see the original.

    Dan Rather learned the lesson of depending on the statements of others as to the accuracy of copied documents and the producer of the show, Mapes, lost her job for accepting the documents as to authenticdocuments..

    both sides of the document went into full battle assailing each others for attacking the positions of each other, and , it turns out, that no one knows what is on the BC as no one can examine it.

    Both sides foughta battle over a document that was virtually useless withoutexamining the original.

    One side believed the government would never lie, and the other side had to depend upon documents that were , in fact, useless to either side.

    this battle will continue until the FBI will be able to confirm the actual facts. If ever

  134. avatar
    Scientist February 13, 2016 at 6:32 am #

    jacko: One side believed the government would never lie,

    I’m perfectly willing to believe that governments lie. What I am unwilling to believe in the absence of any evidence is that a very pregnant young woman would travel 3 days by plane to a very poor country with limited medical facilities in the midst of a violent independence struggle, where she knew not a soul, to have her baby, and then, almost immediately, make the same arduous return journey with her infant to attend the college she had been accepted into. Babies are born where their mothers live. That’s true in 99.999% of cases, at a minimum. If you wish to claim some extraordinarily rare and improbable exception, the burden lies on you and the standard of proof is very high.

  135. avatar
    Notorial Dissent February 13, 2016 at 10:12 am #

    Jack, just exactly which forensic examiner would that have been? There has been exactly NO one capable of doing that, if only by virtue that you can’t tell genuineness of a real document by looking at a multi-generational copy. Any one who says they can is a liar and a fraud. So you were saying??

  136. avatar
    Dave B. February 13, 2016 at 1:18 pm #

    No, it was a few miles away; the medical conditions were probably about the same; and she knew lots of people there. It wasn’t where she lived, though. I wasn’t even born in the same state as she lived in.

    Scientist: Was it 3 days by plane with several stops/transfers from where she lived?Were medical conditions much less developed than where she lived? Did she know anyone there?

  137. avatar
    Scientist February 13, 2016 at 1:25 pm #

    Dave B.: No, it was a few miles awa

    I would define a few miles away as “where you live”. Births in a nearby hospital or birthing center are “where you live” while traveling to Africa is not. And sure, in metro areas that straddle state lines, they could be in another state.

  138. avatar
    Hermitian February 13, 2016 at 2:51 pm #

    Rickey February 7, 2016 at 11:55 am (Quote) #

    Scientist: Even if that were true, how is that a sign of a nefarious assassination, when that box could have killed any random passerby?And if that was the cause of death, that would represent gross negligence on the part of the utility company.Has his family sued the utility?i certainly would if a family member of mine had died in the manner you claim.

    Precisely. Even if Breitbart did cross the street and did collapse in front of Starbucks, how could an assassin have known that Breitbart would cross the street there, much less step on the curb in the exact spot where the box is?

    Electrocution almost certainly would have caused burns, The coroner found no evidence of any burns.

    Humans are creatures of habit. It has been reported that Breitbart was a regular at the Brentwood Lounge. According to Huebl Breitbart had left the Brentwood Lounge was walking from the Lounge to his car in the offstreet parking on the other side of Starbucks in Barrington Ct. His usual path was straight line from the Brentwood Lounge diagonally across South Barrington Avenue past the entrance to Starbucks and on to his car. Any one seated at the tables on the sidewalks outside of Starbucks could observe Breitbart park his car and walk past the entrance to Starbucks across S. Barrington Ave to the Brentwood Lounge. It would be easy for someone to observe Breitbart returning to his car without being noticed.

    The potential for burns on the skin of a victim of electroshock depends on the voltage of the source and the resistance of the skin. Typically, voltages above 500 volts are required to cause serious burns.

    Conduction of Electrical Current to and Through the Human Body: A Review

    Raymond M. Fish, PhD, MD, FACEPa and Leslie A. Geddes, MS, PhD, DScb

    At 500 V or more, high resistance in the outer layer of the skin breaks down.3 This lowers the body’s resistance to current flow greatly. The result is an increase in the amount of current that flows with any given voltage. Areas of skin breakdown are sometimes pinhead-sized wounds that can be easily overlooked. They are often a sign that a large amount of current could enter the body. This current can be expected to result in deep tissue injury to muscles, nerves, and other structures. This is one reason why there is often significant deep tissue injury little in the way of skin burns with high-voltage injuries.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2763825/

  139. avatar
    Hermitian February 13, 2016 at 2:55 pm #

    Author: Rickey
    Comment:

    “”Hermitian: So you are willing to give an unknown Cop the benefit of the doubt but not the one and only identified witness?””

    “I have no idea what you are talking about. I’m not convinced that a cop was present, so why would I be giving a cop the benefit of any doubt?”

    ””Under your “no-Cop” scenario, whoever received the call from the unknown witness would NOT have called out the Police. Assuming that the unknown witness’s call was answered by the 911 operator, how would the 911 operator decide that the police didn’t need to be called out?””

    That said, if a cop was present, I would give more credence to what the cop says than the word of an alleged witness who can’t establish that he was at the scene when the victim collapsed.

    In other words you would give the Cop the benefit of the doubt. I thought so.

    “”Could it be that you just don’t like what the witness testified to. Or maybe you don’t like ex-Chicago Cops who report what you don’t like? And you don’t like the hard facts that his still photographs and videos put into evidence. Or could it be that you just have to have it both ways?””

    “I am a private investigator in New York A big part of my job is assessing evidence and evaluating the credibility of witnesses. Huebl is not a witness. The value of his photographs and video (which isn’t much in any event) depends entirely on him getting the location of Breitbart’s collapse correct. The only evidence that he got the location correct is Lasseter, who has no credibility because his story conflicts with the known facts.”

    A private investigator who believes his witnesses should all carry around an atomic clock. If Lasseter’s time were to the minute in agreement with the Paramedic time that would be unexpected.

    I use Casio G-Shock Solar Atomic Watches which periodically sync with the world atomic time. I have two of these (an old one and a nearly new one) and they are always within one second time difference. They are readily available on the market, dozens of models and are reported to be popular. The price range is $35 to $1900 but in my entire career I have never run into anyone else who has one.

    Have you followed the news over the years concerning the serious problems that NYC and Con Edison have had with stray voltages?

    ””And you don’t know whether or not the LA Cops would ever cooperate with Huebl to the point of sharing official police reports.””

    “All Huebl has to do is file a Freedom of Information request for the police aided report, it any, and the 911 call. Because of HIPAA he might have more difficulty getting the paramedic report, but he probably could get a copy which has sensitive personal information redacted.”

    A pretty good yardstick for success on a FOIA request is the total lack of success of two FBI FOIA requesters for all information related to Andrew Breitbart.

    See: https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/andrew-breitbart-fbi-elsur-and-central-records-index-10657/

    and : https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326098-fbi-breitbart.html

    ””In every normal city, that I know about, the standard 911 system assigns the responsibility to the 911 operator to answer the call, obtain the witness’s identity, obtain the address where the call originated from, get the details as to the emergency or crime, and then call out all first responders to go to the scene.””

    “And what does the 911 operator do if the caller declines to be identified? Disregard the call? Of course not.”

    In that case she/he should instruct the witness to begin CPR and continue until relieved by the first responder. She/he should then call out both the Police and the Paramedics and tell them about the reluctant witness. Many times a person who has just killed someone will call 911 out of guilt but refuse to give an identity.

    ””That call out, in the case of a possible unattended death, always includes the law enforcement agency and paramedics with the ambulance.””

    “And your source for that claim is – what? My mother’s death was unattended, and when she was discovered an ambulance was called, but no police.”

    Leave my Mother out of this.

    If the death is such that the first witness never saw the person alive then the police should be called along with the Coroner.

    If the coroner is called to investigate an unattended death , the Ambulance would not be called. Of course California law requires that unattended deaths are to be investigated by the Coroner (subject to the Coroner’s discretion).

    ”The Los Angeles Emergency Preparedness Information Centers says “Based on the needs of the call, the dispatcher will respond with the appropriate level of resources for the emergency. If a person needs to be transported via ambulance, the LA City Fire Department will use its own vehicles to do so.”

    Here we see an example of typical non-specific language one finds in government procedures and regulations — i.e. “based on the needs of the call”.

    If Engineers wrote nonsense like this then bridges would collapse and airplanes would fall out of the sky.

    “Obviously, if the victim was hit by a car of if there was a gunshot, the police would be dispatched. But for someone simply collapsing on a sidewalk? “

    So what if the someone died somewhere else and was then dropped off at a convenient spot?

    ””So regardless of what the Cop did or did not do, the 911 recording should provide most of the answers.””

    “”So let’s hear the 911 recordings for Andrew Breitbart’s death and the recordings of all police and fire radio calls.””

    “Go for it. File a Freedom of Information request. “

    Ditto – see the FBI FOIA failures above.

    “”Isn’t it odd that none of these recordings were ever released in the case of Andrew Breitbart’s unattended death. Was it because Breitbart was a well-known ultra-Conservative blogger which certainly didn’t make him a well-liked, and certainly not a politically connected person, in sunny, Southern California””

    “Are you serious? Southern California, from Orange County to the border, is perhaps the most conservative part of the state. Irvine, Fullerton, Newport Beach, Oceanside, Escondido, Corona – they are all represented by Republicans in Congress.”

    My son has lived in LA, Simi Valley and now in Thousand Oaks. His opinion is that much of LA City is liberal. And LA City government is very liberal.

    ””Actually, the date of Huebl’s report on his Crimes, Guns, and Video Tape web site was March 2, 2012. So at the latest, Huebl shot the stills and video the day after Breitbart’s demise.””

    “Very good. That’s what I told you, so at least you have learned something.”

    And at the earliest the first video was shot the morning that Breitbart died.

    “”Most likely, the first video, which TMZ gobbled up, was shot on the morning of Mar. 1, 2012.””

    “Most likely? In other word, you’re just guessing. And Huebl didn’t keep a copy of this video for himself? If TMZ did buy a video from Huebl, which has not been proven, they may have decided not to air it after they figured out that Lasseter’s story conflicts which the actual timeline.”

    Except discrediting a witness for not wearing a watch synced with 911 time is unheard of. And you claim to be a PI? What kind of cases do you investigate? Maybe shop lifting? So what time did your unknown witness report when he called 911 (or the LAFD). Or did he just say “we got him”.

    “”A man unknown to Lasseter called 911.””

    “It could have been a woman, but the call was made thirty minutes before Lasseter came upon the scene.”

    Where does it say that to be a witness you must wear a watch? So you are just guessing because none of your conjecture is in the available record. You got the unknown witness call to 911 from the Lasseter video. Without Lasseter you can’t even prove that there was a second unidentified witness. Or, for that matter, that there was any other witness than Lasseter. And there’s the matter of the TMZ/ Lasseter interview video. You really believe that Huebl could pull one over on TMZ?

    It was the paramedics who took a 911 call at 2336 hours of a man down at location – not the 911 operator. So was it a direct 911 call from your unknown witness or a relay call from the 911 operator?
    So what’s your answer?

    ”“Lasseter described Breitbart’s skin color as bright red.“”

    “There is no evidence that Lasseter was there, and plenty of evidence to suggest that he couldn’t possibly have been there.”

    Only if you impose unrealistic timekeeping requirements on a willing witness (Lasseter).

    Maybe if the Coroner had sent his investigators to the scene they might have found some dog poo and could then run the DNA to connect it to Lasseter’s little dog.

    “”We will be waiting with bated breath for the Medical Examiner’s and the Toxicology Reports to know exactly what cut a young man’s life short.””

    “The toxicology reports are attached to the autopsy report. Apart from some blood alcohol. noting of significance was found.“

    Maybe if you discount everything that would indicate electric shock or a fall causing sudden respiratory arrest.

    So what outcome would you expect for a man of Breitbart’s height and weight who fell like a sack of bricks (flat on his back) onto the uneven surface shown in Huebl’s still shot? Do you suppose he might have the breath knocked out of him?

    http://www.crimefilenews.com/2012/03/eyewitness-speaks-out-about-andrew.html

    “”Unless you can get TMZ to release Huebl’s first video and the LA City officials to release all the 911, Police and/or Sheriff and Fire, radio recordings.””
    “You’re the one who is making the claim that Breitbart was murdered. I’m not going to do your work for you.”

    Murder is always a possibility. Breitbart had lots of enemies. And he had some brand new ones after his CPAC talk.

    “”And don’t forget that the Coroner is bound by California law to record the names and addresses of all eye witnesses in his official register of deaths.””

    “You haven’t cited a source for that claim either (and there is nothing in the California Government Codes, Sections 27490-27512, to support your claim), but even if it is accurate the coroner can’t list of the names and addresses of anonymous witnesses. Did Lasseter ever contact the police, the LAFD, or the coroner to report that he witnessed the incident? “

    Actually I did source my comment right here on this thread. But here’s a re-post just for you.

    ””
    27463. The coroner shall keep an official register, labeled
    “Coroner’s Register,” with pages numbered, indexed and bound, in
    which he shall enter:

    (a) The name and any aliases of the deceased, when known,
    including such description as may be sufficient for identification
    and which may, in his discretion, include fingerprint records.

    (b) A narrative summary of the circumstances leading to and
    surrounding the death, together with names and addresses of any
    witnesses to such events.

    (c) The property taken from the person or premises of the deceased
    by the coroner or by any other law enforcement agency or officer.

    (d) The disposition of any property or moneys so taken.

    (e) The cause of death, when known, with reference or direction to
    the detailed medical reports upon which decision as to cause of
    death has been based.

    (f) Information as to disposition of the remains.

    (g) Persons notified of the death, together with a notation of any
    unsuccessful attempts at notification.

    27463.5. In lieu of the “coroner’s register,” the coroner may keep
    an official file for each deceased person containing all of the
    information required by Section 27463. At any time after the
    completion of the coroner’s investigation, and the closing of the
    particular case involved, the coroner may photograph or
    microphotograph the contents of the file in accordance with the
    provisions of Section 26205, and, when the photographs or
    microphotographs are placed in conveniently accessible files and
    provision is made for preserving, examining, and using the same, the
    original file may be destroyed.
    ””

    We’re obviously dealing here with another progressive who has a disregard for the law.

    “”So face it – I’ve got all the facts and you’ve got all the holes.””

    “HAHAHAHAHA! That’s the funniest thing I’ve read today.”

    You must lead a dull life then.

    “”Nope! All that proves is that witness’s estimates of the time of the event are notoriously unreliable. And that’s a given anyway.””

    “A witness who was observant enough to remember exactly what clothing Breitbart was wearing – including the make of his shoes – but can’t tell the difference between 11:36 p.m. and 12:05 a.m.”

    So you can’t separate the Apples from the Oranges?

    “”So you want it both ways with the Cop? In other words it destroys your credibility if the Cop did show up because then you have to explain why he didn’t interview the two witnesses and obtain their information including their names and addresses”. And likewise why he didn’t write down the address of the scene of Breitbart’s death.””

    “First of all, there is no evidence that a cop was at the scene. And if a cop was at the scene, his first response would have been to try to revive Breitbart, not interview witnesses. And since you haven’t bothered to inquire about whether there is a police aided report, you have no idea what the cop did or did not do.”

    Only if you buy into Rickey’s ridiculous claim that Huebl, Lasseter and TMZ joined into a conspiracy to defraud the world. And of course Rickey posted zero evidence that TMZ ever denied that they purchased Huebl’s first Lasseter interview video. And rest assured that Rickey is going to convince you that TMZ exists only in a bubble.

    “”So it was just the Keystone Paramedics.””

    “How so? What did the paramedics do wrong? “

    “”They didn’t treat Breitbart’s death as an unattended death when it obviously was. Also, they ignored other obvious possible causes of death such as stray voltage or a fall due to tripping. Either of these possible causes could have caused his sudden respiratory arrest.””

    “It isn’t up to the paramedics to determine the cause of death. The paramedics are there to provide first aid and transport the victim to the hospital, if necessary.”

    I never said that it was, but they must decide whether to transport the corpse to the hospital or to call out the Coroner’s investigators. So they must be able to recognize an unattended death at the scene.

    “”This lax treatment of Breitbart’s death suggests that, in the LA suburbs, lots of dead bodies are scooped up by Paramedics and taken to the nearest hospital to have them pronounced dead.””

    “That comment suggests that you could use some help. “

    Yes it would have helped if the LA authorities had told us what really happened to Breitbart.

    “”Which leads to an important question. What criteria did the hospital personnel apply that caused them to call the Coroner to pick up Breitbart’s body? Was it unattended death? If so that’s a false report. It’s false because Breitbart was not unattended when he was pronounced dead at the hospital.””

    “Section 27491 of the California Government Codes applies:

    It shall be the duty of the coroner to inquire into and determine the circumstances, manner, and cause of all violent, sudden, or unusual deaths; unattended deaths; deaths where the deceased has not been attended by either a physician or a registered nurse, who is a member of a hospice care interdisciplinary team, as defined by subdivision (g) of Section 1746 of the Health and Safety Code in the 20 days before death…”

    So under California law, Brietbart’s death was sudden, unusual and unattended.

    “It may have been regarded as an unattended death because Breitbart was not breathing at the scene, but it didn’t have to be an unattended death because it was a sudden death. Sudden death is sufficient to require turning the body over to the coroner.”

    Except that under section 27491 “turning the body over to the Coroner” is the minimum required under the law (and only under the discretion of the Coroner). Otherwise, the Coroner is required to send out his field team to investigate the circumstances of Breitbart’s death.

  140. avatar
    Hermitian February 13, 2016 at 3:11 pm #

    Rickey February 8, 2016 at 2:48 am (Quote) #

    Hermitian:

    “”And you don’t remember the video of the only identified witness to Breitbart’s death where said witness stood on the curb next to the pull box that Breitbart collapsed upon?””

    “Christopher Lasseter self-identified himself as a witness. His name does not appear in any official record. If he did witness Breitbart’s collapse, he didn’t identify himself to the paramedics. The report says “The decedent was witnessed to collapse by an unknown person.” To my knowledge, there is no independent verification that Lasseter witnessed Breitbart’s collapse.”

    Your comment that there is no evidence of the exact spot where Breitbart collapsed is not true. Even the officials admit that Breitbart had left the Brentwood Restaurant and Lounge. Here’s the Google Maps Street View of the scene at 11729 Barrington Ct. Los Angeles California.

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Starbucks/@34.0646075,-118.4696118,3a,75y,134h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sPMFflx6TAin6Qj49egLb2w!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DPMFflx6TAin6Qj49egLb2w%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D86%26h%3D86%26yaw%3D134.11386%26pitch%3D-6.4276495!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x80c2bcbb7a501d35:0xb9bedfbd8a2dd4dc!6m1!1e1

    The front entrance to the Starbucks at Barrington Ct. is in the foreground. Approximately 10 ft. beyond the Starbucks entrance alcove is the spot where Breitbart collapsed onto the sidewalk on top of the pull box cover plate. The Barrington Restaurant and Lounge is beyond that spot in the distance diagonally across S. Barrington Ave .

    So you claim that Brietbart collapsed outside of 148 S. Barrington Ave. So, using your mouse, move the arrow-inside-the-circle to the exact spot on the other side of the street where you say Breitbart collapsed and died. Left click and then copy the URL to your reply to this post.

  141. avatar
    Nancy R Owens February 13, 2016 at 6:19 pm #

    Anything showing Allen Owens in college before August of 1985 is BS.

    Hermitian: See for yourself:


    Obama Harvard Tapes Exposed on Hannity

    Published March 7, 2012

    http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2012/03/07/obama-harvard-tapes-exposed-hannity

    Professor Admits Hiding Obama College Video By Todd Starnes

    Harvard University Law School professor Charles Ogletree admitted that he hid controversial video footage featuring a college-age President Obama speaking at a campus rally in support of a radical professor.

    “I hid this during the 2008 campaign,” Ogletree said in the video. “I don’t care if they find it now.”

    The entire video was aired exclusively on Hannity by Breitbart.com editor-in-chief Joel Pollak and contributor Ben Shapiro.

    The unedited video shows Obama speaking at a 1991 rally for Professor Derrick Bell.

    Bell has been described as the Jeremiah Wright of academia. At one point in the video, Obama embraces Bell.

    It’s unclear why Ogletree felt the need to protect Obama and hide the video during the 2008 campaign.

    So how damaging do you think this video is to President Obama? How will the Mainstream Media react? And will it change anyone’s mind?


    Watch the video.Or read the transcript.

    And just remember one video is not videos…

  142. avatar
    Scientist February 13, 2016 at 6:59 pm #

    Hermitian: Humans are creatures of habit. It has been reported that Breitbart was a regular at the Brentwood Lounge. According to Huebl Breitbart had left the Brentwood Lounge was walking from the Lounge to his car in the offstreet parking on the other side of Starbucks in Barrington Ct. His usual path was straight line from the Brentwood Lounge diagonally across South Barrington Avenue past the entrance to Starbucks and on to his car. Any one seated at the tables on the sidewalks outside of Starbucks could observe Breitbart park his car and walk past the entrance to Starbucks across S. Barrington Ave to the Brentwood Lounge. It would be easy for someone to observe Breitbart returning to his car without being noticed.

    You know very well that wasn’t my question. Move to strike your answer as non-responsive. Let me rephrase, was Breitbart the only person who walked in that area on the day of the supposed electrocution? Please provide documentation to support your answer if you claim he was.

  143. avatar
    Rickey February 13, 2016 at 8:09 pm #

    A pretty good yardstick for success on a FOIA request is the total lack of success of two FBI FOIA requesters for all information related to Andrew Breitbart.

    See: https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/andrew-breitbart-fbi-elsur-and-central-records-index-10657/

    and : https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326098-fbi-breitbart.html

    Hermitian: 27463

    Thanks for a perfect example of how stupid you are.

    The FBI has no records because the FBI didn’t investigate Breitbart’s death. Duh! His death wasn’t within the FBI’s jurisdiction.

  144. avatar
    Hermitian February 13, 2016 at 8:22 pm #

    Scientist February 13, 2016 at 6:59 pm (Quote) #

    “Hermitian: Humans are creatures of habit. It has been reported that Breitbart was a regular at the Brentwood Lounge. According to Huebl Breitbart had left the Brentwood Lounge was walking from the Lounge to his car in the offstreet parking on the other side of Starbucks in Barrington Ct. His usual path was straight line from the Brentwood Lounge diagonally across South Barrington Avenue past the entrance to Starbucks and on to his car. Any one seated at the tables on the sidewalks outside of Starbucks could observe Breitbart park his car and walk past the entrance to Starbucks across S. Barrington Ave to the Brentwood Lounge. It would be easy for someone to observe Breitbart returning to his car without being noticed.”

    “You know very well that wasn’t my question. Move to strike your answer as non-responsive. Let me rephrase, was Breitbart the only person who walked in that area on the day of the supposed electrocution? Please provide documentation to support your answer if you claim he was.”

    ELECTROCUTION is your word not mine. ELECTOCUTION is what happens to the human body when ELECTROCUTED in the ELECTRIC CHAIR. I advised you to read up on stray voltage but you didn’t do so.

    I know of no other pedestrian who walked the same path as Breitbart near the time that he collapsed and died.

    I previously addressed the two obstacles that would prevent anyone from walking a line parallel to the curb and through the center line of the street light circuit pull box.

    Of course the area of the unfinished installation of the pull box should have been barricaded and warning signs should nave been in place.

  145. avatar
    Rickey February 13, 2016 at 8:28 pm #

    Hermitian: .

    Many times a person who has just killed someone will call 911 out of guilt but refuse to give an identity.

    Another Hermie gem! Is that part of the Killer’s Code of Honor? “After killing someone, be sure to remain at the scene and report the killing to 911 before making your getaway.”

  146. avatar
    JPotter February 13, 2016 at 9:00 pm #

    Nop, it hasn’t slipped down the hole yet! From four long years ago, echoing here in this thread….

    For your amusement: “Obama had Breitbart Killed”
    http://www.amazon.com/your-amusement-Obama-Breitbart-Killed/forum/Fx3O0GUS5OOQ7GV/Tx8YDXSWB2T9BG/1/ref=cm_cd_pg_pg1?_encoding=UTF8&asin=1936488299&cdSort=oldest

    Why the delay on moving on to Scalia death conspiracies? Don’t tell me it’s too early, that would imply decency on the part of the nuts.

  147. avatar
    Hermitian February 13, 2016 at 9:33 pm #

    Rickey February 13, 2016 at 8:09 pm (Quote) #

    A pretty good yardstick for success on a FOIA request is the total lack of success of two FBI FOIA requesters for all information related to Andrew Breitbart.

    See: https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/andrew-breitbart-fbi-elsur-and-central-records-index-10657/

    and : https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326098-fbi-breitbart.html

    Hermitian: 27463

    Thanks for a perfect example of how stupid you are.

    The FBI has no records because the FBI didn’t investigate Breitbart’s death. Duh! His death wasn’t within the FBI’s jurisdiction.

    The FOIA requests were for ALL of Breitbart’s records — not just those dealing with his death. So in this case any FBI records on him throughout his adult life.

    So the FBI claims that they never had any interest in Andrew Breitbart.

  148. avatar
    Hermitian February 13, 2016 at 10:24 pm #

    Rickey February 13, 2016 at 8:28 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: .

    Many times a person who has just killed someone will call 911 out of guilt but refuse to give an identity.

    Another Hermie gem! Is that part of the Killer’s Code of Honor? “After killing someone, be sure to remain at the scene and report the killing to 911 before making your getaway.”

    I didn’t say that the guilt ridden killer always calls from the murder scene. In the case of Breitbart’s death, without the Lasseter interview and no recorded address from the 911 call your unknown witness could have called 911 from anywhere.

    In fact here’s a case where the murderer called from 300 miles away to report his first kill and then proceeded to kill a second person. He had left a note at the scene where he killed his first victim. In his 911 call he identified this victim and gave the address but he declined to give his identity. After he killed a second person he committed suicide as authorities closed in.

    http://www.scrippsmedia.com/star1021fm/now-trending/Active-shooter-at-Delta-State-University-327429591.html

    Delta State shooting suspect called 911, left note

    By Julianne Cassidy. CREATED Sep 14, 2015 – UPDATED: Sep 16, 2015

    LATEST: Details are still being pieced together in determining what exactly happened Monday in Mississippi.

    However, it is known that Shannon Lamb, the suspect in two killings — the death of professor Ethan Schmidt at Delta State University in Cleveland, Mississippi, and the death of Amy Prentiss, found dead at home about 300 miles away in Gautier, Mississippi — did tell authorities at some point Monday, that he “wasn’t going to jail,” Gautier Police Chief Dante Elben confirms.

    As previously reported, the 45-year-old Lamb taught at Delta State with Schmidt, and lived with Prentiss.

    Prentiss’ body was found by police after Lamb called 911 Monday morning.

    “I shot my wife last night,” he admitted, while declining to identify himself. The couple lived together but are not beleived to have been married.

    Lamb also told the 911 operator that they would find a dog at the home. “He’s a sweet dog,” Lamb said, according to CNN. “He’s not going to bother anyone, but I’m sure he’s upset.”

    Inside the home that the couple shared, Lamb had also left a note.

    According to CNN, the note read, “I’m so very sorry. I wish I could take it back. I loved Amy and she is the only person who ever loved me.”

    It’s believed that Lamb killed Prentiss, before traveling to Delta State to target Schmidt. However, Cleveland Police Chief Charles Bingham says, “We’re not going to speculate on a motive until we have facts in hand.”

    According to CNN, “Late Monday night, officers saw Lamb pull over his car near Greenville, Mississippi, and run into the woods. Soon afterward, they heard a single gunshot and found Lamb’s body.”

    Delta State remained closed Tuesday. Counseling sessions are available and a candlelight vigil was scheduled in honor of the university’s “beloved professor” at 7 p.m.

  149. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 14, 2016 at 8:31 am #

    Just for the record, should Hillary Clinton be elected the next US president, I will not be debunking conspiracy theories about her, such as this:

    http://yapishu.net/book/7095

  150. avatar
    Thrifty February 14, 2016 at 9:02 am #

    I’ve lost interest in Birtherism and haven’t been around here regularly for the past few years, but I do still take an occasional interest in Orly Taitz.

    I noticed that she’s not talking much about Barack Obama any more, but she is spinning conspiracies in a different direction. After Trump’s second place showing in the Iowa caucuses, she was adamant that vote rigging was the only explanation. It’s weird to see someone so adamant that any event that doesn’t confirm to her vision of reality must be the result of some skullduggery.

    So thinking about the thought of someone rigging the caucus/primary process against Donald Trump. Would that even be necessary? These aren’t mandated by law like the actual elections. The Republican party is still a private entity. Can’t they just nominate whoever they want regardless of the results of the primaries? I think I read somewhere that the Republican party really doesn’t like Trump so they don’t have to nominate him if they really don’t want to.

    I look forward to seeing her meltdown after Donald Trump doesn’t become president.

  151. avatar
    Scientist February 14, 2016 at 9:29 am #

    Hermitian: I know of no other pedestrian who walked the same path as Breitbart near the time that he collapsed and died.

    The list of things you don’t know, but that are true is infinite,

    Hermitian: Of course the area of the unfinished installation of the pull box should have been barricaded and warning signs should nave been in place.

    This is America. When a family member dies due to negligence by a deep pockets entity, Americans sue. So either Breitbart’s family is un-American or he didn’t die in the manner you suggest.

  152. avatar
    Hermitian February 14, 2016 at 10:21 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy February 14, 2016 at 8:31 am (Quote) #

    Just for the record, should Hillary Clinton be elected the next US president, I will not be debunking conspiracy theories about her, such as this:

    http://yapishu.net/book/7095

    So you’re not welcome in Russia?

  153. avatar
    Hermitian February 14, 2016 at 10:23 am #

    Scientist February 14, 2016 at 9:29 am (Quote) #

    Hermitian: I know of no other pedestrian who walked the same path as Breitbart near the time that he collapsed and died.

    The list of things you don’t know, but that are true is infinite,

    Hermitian: Of course the area of the unfinished installation of the pull box should have been barricaded and warning signs should nave been in place.

    This is America. When a family member dies due to negligence by a deep pockets entity, Americans sue. So either Breitbart’s family is un-American or he didn’t die in the manner you suggest.

    Or they were not told everything.

  154. avatar
    Notorial Dissent February 14, 2016 at 10:30 am #

    This may just be my mis-aprehension of the times, but as I recall, airlines were reluctant if not downright obstinate about NOT letting someone in the final stages of pregnancy on due to possibilities of induced labor, or just because. I can’t begin to imagine ANY carrier that would have allowed a nearly due momma Obama on a flight from anywhere to Africa in those days.

    We’ve already beaten the NO records whatsoever of her ever leaving or returning to the country at that time far to often to go over again. It has already been proven conclusively, I think, that not only didn’t she, but that she couldn’t have left the country at that time, so this is all rather pointless, but my first comment still applies.

  155. avatar
    Scientist February 14, 2016 at 1:00 pm #

    Hermitian: Or they were not told everything.

    You have laid your case out for all to see, and not for the first time. There are 185,000 lawyers practicing in California. Even idiotic birther suits have gotten a few sleazy lawyers to bite, but your load of steaming dog poo couldn’t get even one. Epic fail.

  156. avatar
    Hermitian February 14, 2016 at 2:08 pm #

    Scientist February 14, 2016 at 9:29 am (Quote) #

    “”Hermitian: I know of no other pedestrian who walked the same path as Breitbart near the time that he collapsed and died.””

    “The list of things you don’t know, but that are true is infinite,”

    You asked, I answered. I can’t help it if you don’t like my answer.

  157. avatar
    Hermitian February 14, 2016 at 2:30 pm #

    Scientist February 14, 2016 at 1:00 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: Or they were not told everything.

    You have laid your case out for all to see, and not for the first time. There are 185,000 lawyers practicing in California. Even idiotic birther suits have gotten a few sleazy lawyers to bite, but your load of steaming dog poo couldn’t get even one. Epic fail.

    I fail to see how whether (or not) the family has sued could alter in any way the actual circumstances of Breitbart’s death.

  158. avatar
    Scientist February 14, 2016 at 3:21 pm #

    Hermitian: I can’t help it if you don’t like my answer.

    Your problem isn’t that I don’t like your answer, it’s that NO ONE believes your fairy tale. You lay it out on public web sites and not a single one of 185,000 lawyers even tries to construct an actual case out of it, despite the fact that millions could be won if you were right. Not even Orly Taitz. That’s your real problem, son.

  159. avatar
    Hermitian February 14, 2016 at 7:23 pm #

    Scientist February 14, 2016 at 3:21 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: I can’t help it if you don’t like my answer.

    Your problem isn’t that I don’t like your answer, it’s that NO ONE believes your fairy tale. You lay it out on public web sites and not a single one of 185,000 lawyers even tries to construct an actual case out of it, despite the fact that millions could be won if you were right. Not even Orly Taitz. That’s your real problem, son.

    And how many of these 185,000 lawyers know the circumstances of Breitbart’s death? And then how many of these Southern California lawyers would stand up for Breitbart?

    And finally, as a Scientist you should know that it’s not smart to EVER say NEVER.

  160. avatar
    Rickey February 14, 2016 at 9:42 pm #

    Hermitian: I didn’t say that the guilt ridden killer always calls from the murder scene.In the case of Breitbart’s death, without the Lasseter interview and no recorded address from the 911 call your unknown witness could have called 911 from anywhere.

    In fact here’s a case where the murderer called from 300 miles away to report his first kill and then proceeded to kill a second person.He had left a note at the scene where he killed his first victim.In his 911 call he identified this victim and gave the address but he declined to give his identity.After he killed a second person he committed suicide as authorities closed in.

    You claimed that “many” killers call 911 and then you provide one example. Typical birther/conspiracy theorist nonsense.

  161. avatar
    Hermitian February 14, 2016 at 10:49 pm #

    Rickey February 14, 2016 at 9:42 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: I didn’t say that the guilt ridden killer always calls from the murder scene.In the case of Breitbart’s death, without the Lasseter interview and no recorded address from the 911 call your unknown witness could have called 911 from anywhere.

    In fact here’s a case where the murderer called from 300 miles away to report his first kill and then proceeded to kill a second person.He had left a note at the scene where he killed his first victim.In his 911 call he identified this victim and gave the address but he declined to give his identity.After he killed a second person he committed suicide as authorities closed in.

    You claimed that “many” killers call 911 and then you provide one example. Typical birther/conspiracy theorist nonsense.

    Knock yourself out …

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=killers+who+call+911

    I’ve got about 100 search engines that I can pull up.

  162. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 14, 2016 at 11:06 pm #

    JPotter: Is that really Herms going on about Breitbart’s death … again?

    Yeah I’m sorry that was my fault I got the henry bot going.

  163. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 14, 2016 at 11:08 pm #

    Hermitian: So you are claiming that Professor Ogletree intentionally hid the Obama video from the 2008 voters just to get his jollies off?

    He was joking that he “intentionally hid the video” to accomplish anything. Everything goes over your head doesn’t it?

  164. avatar
    Hermitian February 15, 2016 at 10:54 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 14, 2016 at 11:08 pm (Quote) #

    “”Hermitian: So you are claiming that Professor Ogletree intentionally hid the Obama video from the 2008 voters just to get his jollies off?””

    “He was joking that he “intentionally hid the video” to accomplish anything. Everything goes over your head doesn’t it?”

    This garbled sentence of yours does.

    “He was joking that he “intentionally hid the video” to accomplish anything.

    Unbalanced parentheses

    Totally without meaning

    Translation please …

  165. avatar
    Scientist February 15, 2016 at 11:16 am #

    Hermitian: And how many of these 185,000 lawyers know the circumstances of Breitbart’s death? And then how many of these Southern California lawyers would stand up for Breitbart?

    For a chance at 1/3 of a multi-million dollar judgement against the utiility for their negligence, almost all of them.

    Hermitian: And finally, as a Scientist you should know that it’s not smart to EVER say NEVER.

    When did I say “never”? I simply described your epic failure to interest Breitbart’s survivors and any California attorney in pursuing what would be a potentially very lucrative lawsuit should your fairy tale have even a grain of truth.

    Why don’t you contact the family and see if they are interested in suing the utility? Why don’t you send an email blast to the members of the California Bar? You could ask for a percentage of the settlement based on your excellent detective work. Instead you waste your time posting here, Very dumb.

  166. avatar
    Rickey February 15, 2016 at 4:29 pm #

    Hermitian: Knock yourself out …

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=killers+who+call+911

    I’ve got about 100 search engines that I can pull up.

    Most of them are 911 calls about accidental shootings, or calls made by witnesses, or calls made by victims, or calls made by relatives of victims.

    So tell us – in what percentage of murders do the killers place a 911 call to report it? What is your definition of “many?”

  167. avatar
    Rickey February 15, 2016 at 4:34 pm #

    Hermitian: The FOIA requests were for ALL of Breitbart’s records — not just those dealing with his death.So in this case any FBI records on him throughout his adult life.

    So the FBI claims that they never had any interest in Andrew Breitbart.

    Why would the FBI be interested in Breitbart?

    On the other hand, we know that the LAFD has records about Breitbart’s death. We know that there was a 911 call. We know that there is a paramedic report. And we know that if there is a police aided report, the LAPD would have it.

    So why no Freedom of Information requests to those agencies?

  168. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 15, 2016 at 4:41 pm #

    Hermitian: This garbled sentence of yours does.

    “He was joking that he “intentionally hid the video” to accomplish anything.

    Unbalanced parentheses

    Totally without meaning

    Translation please …

    Again words fly over your head. He was telling a joke. There was no ill intent. He was making you nutjobs go crazy.

  169. avatar
    Hermitian February 15, 2016 at 6:24 pm #

    Rickey February 15, 2016 at 4:29 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: Knock yourself out …

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=killers+who+call+911

    I’ve got about 100 search engines that I can pull up.

    Most of them are 911 calls about accidental shootings, or calls made by witnesses, or calls made by victims, or calls made by relatives of victims.

    So tell us – in what percentage of murders do the killers place a 911 call to report it? What is your definition of “many?”

    So you just skipped right over the first case in my search list which covered the shooting death of a Black female by a homeowner on his front porch. He proceeded to call 911 to report that he had shot someone on his front porch and then hung up. The 911 operator called back and he answered and was still there when the police arrived. He was later accused of a racially motivated shooting.

    If you’re not going to read them, then why should I bother?

  170. avatar
    Hermitian February 15, 2016 at 7:42 pm #

    Rickey February 15, 2016 at 4:34 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: The FOIA requests were for ALL of Breitbart’s records — not just those dealing with his death. So in this case any FBI records on him throughout his adult life.

    So the FBI claims that they never had any interest in Andrew Breitbart.

    Why would the FBI be interested in Breitbart?

    One Word “Pigford”

    After Breitbart exposed the faux FBI investigation of Pigford there’s just no way the bureau didn’t have a file on him.

    Breitbart was finally vindicated for his Pigford reporting posthumously by the NYT.


    Andrew Breitbart vindicated on Pigford after years of attacks from Media Matters and others

    Comments

    Permalink

    Posted by Mandy Nagy Friday, April 26, 2013 at 12:30pm

    New York Times finally pays attention

    After two and a half years, it seems Andrew Breitbart has finally been vindicated for his tireless efforts on the Pigford story.

    A front page investigative piece from the New York Times has put Pigford back on the map, in a big way: Federal Spigot Flows as Farmers Claim Discrimination.

    The deal, several current and former government officials said, was fashioned in White House meetings despite the vehement objections — until now undisclosed — of career lawyers and agency officials who had argued that there was no credible evidence of widespread discrimination. What is more, some protested, the template for the deal — the $50,000 payouts to black farmers — had proved a magnet for fraud.

    From Breitbart News:

    The New York Times reported Friday that the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) has likely enabled massive fraud in the Pigford series of legal settlements, in which black, Hispanic, female and Native American farmers have claimed to be victims of past discrimination.

    The cost of the settlements, which could exceed $4.4 billion, is the result of a process that “became a runaway train, driven by racial politics, pressure from influential members of Congress and law firms that stand to gain more than $130 million in fees,” the Times notes.

    Andrew Breitbart held a press conference at CPAC in 2011, explaining the importance of the Pigford story.

    Breitbart fought relentlessly to bring this story to the public, and into the mainstream. Over time, even a few members of Congress, like Reps. Steve King and Michele Bachmann, joined Breitbart’s efforts and tried to bring the issues to the attention of others in Congress.

    In turn, Breitbart and his team, including Lee Stranahan, who lead most of the coverage, endured countless accusations of racism from left-wing outlets like Media Matters, simply for trying to highlight the plight of black farmers who were real victims of discrimination.

    Many of their legitimate claims went ignored while other individuals appeared to be benefiting from fraud.

    Yet the Times documents how Pigford became a “magnet for fraud” across the South. “In 16 ZIP codes in Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi and North Carolina,” LaFraniere writes, “the number of successful claimants exceeded the total number of farms operated by people of any race in 1997, the year the lawsuit was filed. Those applicants received nearly $100 million.” The government let many of the fraudulent claims slip by unpunished because “the bar for a successful claim was so low that it was almost impossible to show criminality.”

    Also from the NY Times:

    On two floors of the Cotton Annex building in Washington, a 300-member team from the Farm Service Agency reviewed claims before adjudicators rendered their final decisions. In recent interviews, 15 current and former Agriculture Department employees who reviewed or responded to claims said the loose conditions for payment had opened the floodgates to fraud.

    “It was the craziest thing I have ever seen,” one former high-ranking department official said. “We had applications for kids who were 4 or 5 years old. We had cases where every single member of the family applied.” The official added, “You couldn’t have designed it worse if you had tried.”

    Now might be an appropriate time to revisit Media Matters’ disingenuous attacks on Breitbart, who tried to bring attention to what the NY Times now confirms is a process that “had opened the floodgates to fraud.”

    I searched the Media Matters website early this morning and found 33 results for “Pigford,” the vast majority of those articles aimed at attempting to discredit Andrew Breitbart, supporters who tried to blow the whistle on Pigford claim issues, and the investigative work from Breitbart News.

    Watch the video !

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/04/andrew-breitbart-vindicated-on-pigford-after-years-of-attacks-from-media-matters-and-others/

    On the other hand, we know that the LAFD has records about Breitbart’s death. We know that there was a 911 call. We know that there is a paramedic report. And we know that if there is a police aided report, the LAPD would have it.

  171. avatar
    Northland10 February 15, 2016 at 8:06 pm #

    Hermitian: If you’re not going to read them, then why should I bother?

    Do you really want our opinion?

  172. avatar
    Hermitian February 15, 2016 at 8:58 pm #

    Rickey February 15, 2016 at 4:34 pm (Quote) #

    On the other hand, we know that the LAFD has records about Breitbart’s death.

    The coroner’s investigator mentioned the paramedic’s report. I don’t remember an LAFD report.

    We know that there was a 911 call.

    Not really. All we really know is that the paramedics reported that they got a call from 911.

    We know that there is a paramedic report.

    So is it paramedics or LAFD? Or are you just double counting?

    And we know that if there is a police aided report, the LAPD would have it.

    So what does it say? That the LAPD didn’t send a cop to the scene? They didn’t bother to even get the address? So what did they investigate then?

    So why no Freedom of Information requests to those agencies?

    You’re the one with the story shot full of holes. Go for it.

    And I’m still waiting for you to move the “arrow within the circle” from the spot where Breitbart collapsed onto the pull box next to the entrance to Starbucks — down S. Barrington Ave to the point on the sidewalk outside 148 S. Barrington Ave. where you claim that Breitbart collapsed.

    We’re all waiting for your GPS coordinates or the URL from Google Street View for that spot on the sidewalk right outside of the Brentwood Restaurant and Lounge.

    What? You need to first file a FOIA with the LAPD to get that exact spot nailed down?

    I thought so …

  173. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 15, 2016 at 9:03 pm #

    Besides convenience for your pseudo argument, why do you think the FBI had a file on Breitbart? Are you aware of the FBI limits on record keeping for persons not accused of a crime? What legitimate law enforcement objective would be met by having a “file” on Breitbart because of the Pigford item?

    Hermitian: One Word “Pigford”

    After Breitbart exposed the faux FBI investigation of Pigford there’s just no way the bureau didn’t have a file on him.

  174. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 15, 2016 at 9:08 pm #

    You’re the one with a half-baked theory full of holes, which was inadequately researched. I’m going to enforce your ban at this point. You’re going downhill fast.

    Hermitian: What? You need to first file a FOIA with the LAPD to get that exact spot nailed down?

  175. avatar
    Jacko February 16, 2016 at 1:03 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    While the long form birth certificate image on the Internet is itself not legal proof of the place of birth of President Obama, the certifications of the State of Hawaii to the Secretaries of State of Kansas and Arizona are. For legal purposes, Obama’s birthplace was proven.
    Anyone can make up some crazy scenario where all sorts of people are conspiring together to maintain a falsehood, but there’s no justification for such a scenario except as a hypothetical excuse to keep the argument going. If the LFBC image on the Internet actually did have indications of forgery, then one might be justified in some conspiracist speculation, but it does not.

    there were no certifications, there were verifications, which simply state that the quotations from the LFBC submitted by the application were found on the original document, and that means absolutely nothing about the contents of the original being true and accurate,
    Many people, with whom you have had significant discussions, aver that there are indications of forgery, just like you said there were indications of forgery on LCS Kenyan bc, and they both had the same indications of forgery, or more simply put, competer minipulations .

    No one can be sure about what has gone through a computer without being able to look at the original, or a photo of the original

    Has Dan Rather found out, to his sorrow, that the forensic examiners want to see the originals to comment on the truthfulness of the copy.l

  176. avatar
    Jacko February 16, 2016 at 1:13 am #

    Scientist: I’m perfectly willing to believe that governments lie.What I am unwilling to believe in the absence of any evidence is that a very pregnant young woman would travel 3 days by plane to a very poor country with limited medical facilities in the midst of a violent independence struggle, where she knew not a soul, to have her baby, and then, almost immediately, make the same arduous return journey with her infant to attend the college she had been accepted into.Babies are born where their mothers live. That’s true in 99.999% of cases, at a minimum. If you wish to claim some extraordinarily rare and improbable exception, the burden lies on you and the standard of proof is very high.

    You mistakenly think that I think that he was born in Kenya , I have no idea whether or not that was true. the dispute is really about the Certification of Birth, and the LFBC being as being certified true copies means that the information on the original is also true.
    that is an incorrect assumption as the IG of HHS said that 50% of the State Registrars stated that the was birth certificate fraud in their office, and that does not mean that HDOH was one of them, just indicates that BC fraud is prevelant in the USA, at least when the IG had the investigation.

  177. avatar
    Rickey February 16, 2016 at 1:21 am #

    Hermie is so ignorant that he doesn’t realize that the LAFD has its own ambulances and paramedics.

    And now he is claiming that we don’t really know if there was a 911 call, even though a 911 call is mentioned three times in the autopsy report.

  178. avatar
    Jacko February 16, 2016 at 1:45 am #

    Scientist: I would define a few miles away as “where you live”.Births in a nearby hospital or birthing center are “where you live” while traveling to Africa is not.And sure, in metro areas that straddle state lines, they could be in another state.

    Actually, a child born in a moving , car, boat, airplane, is registered as being born at the place the child was removed from the tranportation method,

    And the district records the birth as being in the district.

    A child born within 12 miles of USA territorial land is an American citizen , even though the child might never set foot or reside in the USA

    \\co

  179. avatar
    Jacko February 16, 2016 at 1:52 am #

    Notorial Dissent:
    This may just be my mis-aprehension of the times, but as I recall, airlines were reluctant if not downright obstinate about NOT letting someone in the final stages of pregnancy on due to possibilities of induced labor, or just because. I can’t begin to imagine ANY carrier that would have allowed a nearly due momma Obama on a flight from anywhere to Africa in those days.

    We’ve already beaten the NO records whatsoever of her ever leaving or returning to the country at that time far to often to go over again. It has already been proven conclusively, I think, that not only didn’t she, but that she couldn’t have left the country at that time, so this is all rather pointless, but my first comment still applies.

    I agree with you, however, remember that a premature baby born 1 month before due date , might be a child from a traveling mother that was allowed to travel via air.
    As you state that she couldn’t have left the country you might have missed the fact of travel months prior to due date.
    I don’t care , one way or the other, but many pregnant mothers cross the borders to the usa without considering due date, noting the Chinese and the Mexican births in the uSa.
    And, there seems to be little record of her being in Hawaii after her wedding and before the birth, at least none that I have seen.

  180. avatar
    Lupin February 16, 2016 at 4:36 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: You’re the one with a half-baked theory full of holes, which was inadequately researched. I’m going to enforce your ban at this point. You’re going downhill fast.

    I heartily approve. Discussing Breitbart’s so-called “assassination” is just marginally less stupid and just as moronic than BSE’s ravings about Sandy Hook on the Gerbil Report. If one is that much of a cretin to believe in such tripe, one is beyond all logic and common sense.

  181. avatar
    Whatever4 February 16, 2016 at 4:55 am #

    Notorial Dissent:
    This may just be my mis-aprehension of the times, but as I recall, airlines were reluctant if not downright obstinate about NOT letting someone in the final stages of pregnancy on due to possibilities of induced labor, or just because. I can’t begin to imagine ANY carrier that would have allowed a nearly due momma Obama on a flight from anywhere to Africa in those days.

    We’ve already beaten the NO records whatsoever of her ever leaving or returning to the country at that time far to often to go over again. It has already been proven conclusively, I think, that not only didn’t she, but that she couldn’t have left the country at that time, so this is all rather pointless, but my first comment still applies.

    Not to mention that Obama’s mother would have required a visa and a very recent yellow fever vaccination to enter Kenya. Such vaccinations were not given to pregnant women.

  182. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2016 at 6:52 am #

    What record that you would EXPECT to see have you not seen? What records for similarly situated persons have you seen?

    Jacko: And, there seems to be little record of her being in Hawaii after her wedding and before the birth, at least none that I have seen.

  183. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2016 at 6:57 am #

    A verification is a legal document and it confirms what is on the birth certificate that Obama released, thereby requiring you to either accept that the White House document is an authentic state document, or to add the Hawaii Department of Health to the ever-growing conspiracy theory.

    No competent argument has ever been presented that the White House LFBC is a forgery. All of those claims fell apart under scrutiny.

    Now you could argue that the original in Hawaii is a forgery, but that requires adding Doctor Sinclair and Kapi’olani to your future president conspiracy theory. There is simply no reason to believe any of these wildly implausible scenarios that birther conspiracy theorists cook up.

    The Lucas Smith certificate doesn’t show signs of computer manipulation. It’s a true image of an actual fake document. The fact that the font matches precisely with one that comes with Windows is telling, but the main problem is the historical errors in the document and the fact that no other birth certificate of that form has ever appeared. Obama’s certificate, on the other hand, is confirmed by every contextual study of it, for example the race codes.

    Your approach, and the approach of many birthers, is a demand that their theories be disproven. That’s not how it works. The birthers need to state a hypothesis (which they really don’t do) and then prove it. The excuse is offered that they don’t have access to the documents needed to make their proof, but that is something that has to be justified. There is no evidence that requires confirmation by looking at an original record. There is no justification for birther beliefs to start with. Birthers start with a conclusion, and that is a recipe for error.

    [For historical reference, Jacko is the former commenter here Trader Jack.]

    Jacko: there were no certifications, there were verifications, which simply state that the quotations from the LFBC submitted by the application were found on the original document, and that means absolutely nothing about the contents of the original being true and accurate,
    Many people, with whom you have had significant discussions, aver that there are indications of forgery, just like you said there were indications of forgery on LCS Kenyan bc, and they both had the same indications of forgery, or more simply put, competer minipulations .

  184. avatar
    Scientist February 16, 2016 at 7:48 am #

    Jacko: I don’t care , one way or the other, but many pregnant mothers cross the borders to the usa without considering due date, noting the Chinese and the Mexican births in the uSa.

    How many American mothers go to Kenya or anywhere in Africa to give birth?

    Jacko: IG of HHS said that 50% of the State Registrars stated that the was birth certificate fraud in their office, and that does not mean that HDOH was one of them, just indicates that BC fraud is prevelant in the USA, at least when the IG had the investigation.

    Car theft is prevalent, but the car I am driving really is mine.

    Anyway, even if you showed me that the Hawaii DOH in 1961 was riddled with fraud, which you have not, you would still have no evidence the President was not born there. Even if you could convince me that his place of birth was completely unknown (which I am confident you cannot) the assumption for place of birth would remain Hawaii, because that is where his mother lived at the time. You would STILL have to AFFIRMATIVELY prove some alternate location of birth. Good luck with that….

  185. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) February 16, 2016 at 9:55 am #

    Jacko: there were no certifications, there were verifications, which simply state that the quotations from the LFBC submitted by the application were found on the original document, and that means absolutely nothing about the contents of the original being true and accurate

    That’s what a verification does. The certification is the birth certificate itself. Without ample evidence as to why the vault original should be a forgery, there is no reason to doubt its authenticity.
    Besides, it’s just another example of moving the goalposts.
    First you claim you need to see the BC.
    Then you claim you need to see the LFBC.
    Then you claim you need to have it verified.
    Then you claim you need to *see* the original.
    Then you claim the original must be verified by outside sources to prove its contents are correct.
    Then you will claim you need to see the original outside sources
    Then you will claim the original outside sources must be verified to prove their contents are correct.
    Etc. ad infinitum.

    The truth is, no level of validation/confirmation/verification/certification will ever be enough for you as you will simply move the goalposts to needing level n+1 to prove level n is OK.
    That is both intellectually dishonest and absurd.
    At one point, it will come down to “witnesses of the birth” for whom you will simply declare they are lying. Yawn.

  186. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 16, 2016 at 10:16 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in): That’s what a verification does. The certification is the birth certificate itself. Without ample evidence as to why the vault original should be a forgery, there is no reason to doubt its authenticity.

    To Jack no birth certificates are valid since there has been fraud used somewhere at sometime by someone relating to a vital record. Jack has never been able to suggest anything that should be offered up instead of a birth certificate.

  187. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2016 at 11:16 am #

    For the year including the President’s birth, none by air according to INS statistical reports.

    Scientist: How many American mothers go to Kenya or anywhere in Africa to give birth?

  188. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2016 at 12:16 pm #

    Obama OpEd in the Wall Street Journal on cyber security:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/protecting-u-s-innovation-from-cyberthreats-1455012003

  189. avatar
    Rickey February 16, 2016 at 12:34 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in):

    The truth is, no level of validation/confirmation/verification/certification will ever be enough for you as you will simply move the goalposts to needing level n+1 to prove level n is OK.
    That is both intellectually dishonest and absurd.
    At one point, it will come down to “witnesses of the birth” for whom you will simply declare they are lying. Yawn.

    Yes, even if they were able to see the hospital records of Obama’s birth they would say, “How do we know that the hospital records are correct?”

  190. avatar
    Pete February 16, 2016 at 4:46 pm #

    Rickey: Yes, even if they were able to see the hospital records of Obama’s birth they would say, “How do we know that the hospital records are correct?”

    They is FORAGED.

  191. avatar
    jacko February 16, 2016 at 8:33 pm #

    and, with all of the comments, I have never said that Obama was not born in the USA, I have said that unless you can compare the original with the LFBC, you should not assume that the original is correct.

    If the federal government does not assume birth certificates are correct, why should you or I assume that they are correct.

    Or do you deny that the federal government is not concerned with birth certificate fraud.

    No, I think that when people challenge a document, based upon their beliefs, that due consideration should be given to the discovery of the truth of the document, and not just say the government says it is true, when you know that the government will never authenticate a document that is simply filed, and that they did not manufacture and have no actual knowledge of the truth or falsity of what has been filed with them

    Trust , but verify, is not much believed in these days

    Beliefs are not always true, and are hard to overcome , are they not

  192. avatar
    James M February 16, 2016 at 8:36 pm #

    Scientist:
    How many American mothers go to Kenya or anywhere in Africa to give birth?

    Two of my colleagues did exactly this, one in Guinée, one in Senegal. Both children are US Citizens by birth, thus neither is eligible for naturalization. One of the mothers is white, originally from Oklahoma, and the other in Chinese-American, born in China and became a citizen in 2006.

  193. avatar
    Scientist February 16, 2016 at 8:53 pm #

    James M: Two of my colleagues did exactly this, one in Guinée, one in Senegal

    They traveled to Guinee and Senegal to give birth there or they lived there when they gave birth?

  194. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 16, 2016 at 9:34 pm #

    But we assume that everybody’s birth certificate is correct. That’s a fundamental assumption in American society. Only when there is a concrete reason to question a vital record, is investigation done. The verifications from Hawaii, and the LFBC (but not the image of it on the Internet) are prima facie evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii. The burden of proof is on the one would challenge the document, and the desire for a fishing expedition in hopes there is a problem with it is not proof.

    The millions of Americans with passports sent in their birth certificates, just like I did. Nobody went to the vault in Alabama to compare it. Yes the federal government is concerned with vital records fraud, but primarily it is people who are using real birth certificates that belong to someone else, and delayed birth reports outside of hospitals. Neither of these is the case with Barack Obama.

    jacko: I have said that unless you can compare the original with the LFBC, you should not assume that the original is correct.

  195. avatar
    jacko February 16, 2016 at 11:46 pm #

    §701-117 Prima facie evidence. Prima facie evidence of a fact is evidence which, if accepted in its entirety by the trier of fact, is sufficient to prove the fact. Prima facie evidence provisions in this Code are governed by section 626-1, rule 306. [L 1972, c 9, pt of §1; am L 1986, c 314, §3]

    Only refers to , in the case of the LFBC to it being a true copy of the document , and makes no reference to the actual truth of the document

  196. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2016 at 12:11 am #

    jacko:

    If the federal government does not assume birth certificates are correct, why should you or I assume that they are correct.

    The Federal government assumed that my birth certificate is correct when I applied for a Social Security Number, when I enlisted in the Navy, and when I applied for and was issued a passport.

    And on all three occasions the government accepted my short-form birth certificate, which contains less information than Obama’s short-form birth certificate.

  197. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2016 at 12:22 am #

    The Social Security Administration sent me a letter acknowledging receipt of my request for the SS-5 of Bari Shabazz. I should have it in a few weeks, and we will then know who his parents were.

    My guess: his parents were not Malcolm X and Stanley Ann Dunham.

  198. avatar
    James M February 17, 2016 at 12:33 am #

    Scientist: They traveled to Guinee and Senegal to give birth there or they lived there when they gave birth?

    Both were academic professionals in public health roles, certainly not birth tourism 🙂 The friend who went to Guinée ended up in Atlanta working for the CDC, and the friend who went to Senegal is still living and working in West Africa. I’ve talked to both of them about the implications of their children’s citizenship, but it’s not really a subject either is very interested in 🙂

  199. avatar
    James M February 17, 2016 at 12:37 am #

    Hermitian: Andrew Breitbart

    I know I’m late to the party, but what is it about Breitbart that would make him important enough to be a target of assassination?

  200. avatar
    James M February 17, 2016 at 12:40 am #

    jacko:
    Or do you deny that the federal government is not concerned with birth certificate fraud.

    What birth certificate fraud? Perhaps if you confronted a government agency with evidence of fraud they might be unconcerned, but do you know of such a case?

  201. avatar
    bob February 17, 2016 at 1:26 am #

    James M: I know I’m late to the party, but what is it about Breitbart that would make him important enough to be a target of assassination?

    Like everyone else: He had “the goods” on Obama. 🙄

  202. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) February 17, 2016 at 4:49 am #

    And he was running one of the biggest RW echo chambers.
    A place where any insult to Breitbart’s mother gets you banned but the vilest racism is OK’d by moderation staff. Nuff said.

  203. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) February 17, 2016 at 4:52 am #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Jack has never been able to suggest anything that should be offered up instead of a birth certificate.

    Other birthers have (“hospital records”, “witnesses”), but of course they would denounce those as well as soon as they appear.
    Of course Jack believes no foul play was ever involved with a white President (other than Chester Arthur) because he has faith that no Republican President (or his family) ever duped the authorities.

  204. avatar
    Yoda February 17, 2016 at 6:13 am #

    Based on the Federal Rules of Evidence, the Federal Government does not have a problem with birth certificates. A certified copy of a birth certificate is admissible as an exception to the hearsay rule as prima facile evidence of the information contained therein.

  205. avatar
    Scientist February 17, 2016 at 6:27 am #

    James M: Both were academic professionals in public health roles, certainly not birth tourism 🙂 The friend who went to Guinée ended up in Atlanta working for the CDC, and the friend who went to Senegal is still living and working in West Africa.

    Yes, they gave birth where they were living. Just like Ann Dunham, except she lived in Hawaii.

  206. avatar
    Scientist February 17, 2016 at 6:31 am #

    jacko: No, I think that when people challenge a document, based upon their beliefs, that due consideration should be given to the discovery of the truth of the document, and not just say the government says it is true

    i challenge your birth certificate based on my beliefs. I demand you produce all records, which I will of course challenge as well. Whatever you show me, I will challenge.

    Same goes for Donald Trump. I don’t believe he was born in NYC nor am I convinced NYC is part of the US (with their NY values and all). Unless he proves me wrong, he should quit the race.

  207. avatar
    Scientist February 17, 2016 at 6:50 am #

    James M: I know I’m late to the party, but what is it about Breitbart that would make him important enough to be a target of assassination?

    Hermie spent a whole bunch of time arguing that the death resulted from a negligently unattended light pole box. That seems more like an accident than an assassination, which makes his “argument” even stranger.

  208. avatar
    Notorial Dissent February 17, 2016 at 7:19 am #

    Andrew Breitbart was a self important RWNJ fantasy gossip monger with delusions of adequacy, similar in fact to Hermy. The biggest threat to Andrew Breitbart was Andrew Breitbart and his eating and living habits, and we really needn’t discus his nasty and vile shriveled little soul since that is just a given. He was a thoroughly unpleasant and unlikable individual, but was only a threat to himself. That he is dead lies soley and only at his doorstep.

  209. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 17, 2016 at 8:22 am #

    Scientist: i challenge your birth certificate based on my beliefs.I demand you produce all records, which I will of course challenge as well. Whatever you show me, I will challenge.

    Same goes for Donald Trump.I don’t believe he was born in NYC nor am I convinced NYC is part of the US (with their NY values and all).Unless he proves me wrong, he should quit the race.

    I think jacko is projecting his own criminal activities off on others. A while back he admitted on amazon to stealing someone else’s social security number and using it to commit fraud

  210. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2016 at 9:08 am #

    Sorry, but that is simply not true. A birth certificate is prima facie evidence of the facts of birth on it.

    The certificate itself says:

    “This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding”

    citing Hawaii Revised Statute 338-13(b) and 339-19.

    So while you may to deny the facts, you are simply and totally wrong.

    jacko: Only refers to , in the case of the LFBC to it being a true copy of the document , and makes no reference to the actual truth of the document

  211. avatar
    Hermitian February 17, 2016 at 9:14 am #

    Rickey February 17, 2016 at 12:22 am (Quote) #

    The Social Security Administration sent me a letter acknowledging receipt of my request for the SS-5 of Bari Shabazz. I should have it in a few weeks, and we will then know who his parents were.

    My guess: his parents were not Malcolm X and Stanley Ann Dunham.

    Is that Bari “Malik” Shabazz or just any ole Bari Shabazz?

  212. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) February 17, 2016 at 10:58 am #

    Typical birther, rejecting an official confirmation because the special “magic words” he demands weren’t used.
    Like saying when a potentially forged $100 note was analyzed and the expert said “it’s not forged”, he still didn’t acknowledge it’s a valid $100 note because somehow “not forged” does not imply it’s legal tender. *facepalm*

  213. avatar
    Scientist February 17, 2016 at 12:20 pm #

    The Magic M (not logged in): Like saying when a potentially forged $100 note was analyzed and the expert said “it’s not forged”, he still didn’t acknowledge it’s a valid $100 note because somehow “not forged” does not imply it’s legal tender. *facepalm*

    Any such notes jacko comes across, I will be happy to take them off his hands.

  214. avatar
    Thrifty February 17, 2016 at 1:11 pm #

    I feel like a Birther traffic cop would be an absolute nightmare.

    Birther traffic cop: License, registration, and proof of insurance please.
    Me:: *hands over relevant documents*
    BTC: How do I know that this driver’s license is not forged?
    Me: I happen to have this signed and notarized letter from Scott Vien, director of the Delaware Department of Motor Vehicles, attesting that the driver’s license is a genuine Delaware driver’s license, and that my registration is authentic as well.
    BTC: Teenagers often use fake drivers licenses to get into bars and buy alcohol.
    Me: I also have Mr. Vien with me in the car.
    Scott Vien: Hi. I have seen tens of thousands of driver’s licenses issued to residents of the state of Delaware, and I worked closely in 2010 to work on the new, higher security features of our licenses. It looks like every other driver’s license I’ve seen.
    BTC: Ok but how do I know that you are telling the truth, Mr. Vien? Maybe you were bribed. You seem to be very close friends with the driver.
    Me: What do you want from me?
    BTC: It says here that your date of birth is March 27th 1981 but the license was originally issued October 31st 1997, 7 months after your 16th birthday. That seems suspicious…. I need to see the original application for your driver’s license from 1997, plus the results of the written test.
    Me: I took the written test on paper through my high school and it would have been discarded years ago.
    BTC: How very convenient! What about the examiner who gave you your driving test?
    Me: She died in 2009.
    BTC: Right after Barry Soetero became president? That’s a little too coincidental…
    Scott Vien: I’m not sure we even keep the original applications around. Everything was digital in 1997.
    BTC: Forget about your forged license. Do you even know how fast you were going?
    Me: Maybe about 46 miles per hour?
    BTC: I have you clocked at 215 miles per hour!
    Me: Cars don’t even go that fast.
    BTC: The British made ThrustSSC has clocked speeds of 763 miles per hour.
    Me and James Vien: ….

  215. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2016 at 2:07 pm #

    “Birther who sued over Obama’s birth certificate says doubting Cruz’s citizenship destroys politics” Alan Keyes at RawStory

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/birther-who-sued-obamas-birth-certificate-says-doubting-cruzs-citizenship-destroys-politics/

  216. avatar
    jacko February 17, 2016 at 2:15 pm #

    Oh, are we having fun yet?

    OK, I understand the facts of posting here.

    But, and there is a but, no government will stand still and assume the fiscal responsibility for the contents of any document that they did not produce!
    the birth certificate is produced by the government, but the information on it is produced by, in effect, unknown parties to the holder of the filed records.

    The government scans the documents , before accepting and filing, to make sure that the document meets the standards for filing the record.

    The submitted document usually is required to have a statement by one party or another that the information is true and correct, and the attesting party is the only one who has any responsibility for the correctness of the information

    And an attester is not required to verify that the information is true, only that the signing of the form was done in the presence of the party that completed the document.

    And that is why you will see court cases where the wrong father is named in the birth certificate , a case filed, and the State is never charged with a crime of filing a false document.

    Further, the State , when asked to authenticate the document , will state that they will only authentic the signature of the certification signed as being a true signature , and state that the State does not claim that the information on the document is true or correct.

    Do you really think that the State can guarantee the truthfulness of all those forms that are completed by strangers and filed in the government records

  217. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2016 at 2:42 pm #

    You really don’t understand this.

    First, the person who signed Obama’s original birth certificate is the attending physician at the birth. I do not think that the doctor who delivered Barack Obama needs to verify the details of the place and time of delivery. The other person who signed Obama’s birth certificate was his mother, and I do not think that she needs to verify her identity.

    The attendant and the informant (technical terms) sign the birth certificate under penalty of perjury.

    That is, the competent witnesses to the facts of Obama’s birth have testified, and the State of Hawaii has recorded their testimony. That’s the end of the story unless you have some evidence to impeach their statements, which you do not. Dr. Sinclair was no “stranger” (to use your words), but a well-known physician in the community working for the main hospital for maternity in the area.

    Birthers want to create some fantasy world where sworn statements are not sworn statements, and official records are not official records, and basically anything can be questioned WITHOUT a good reason to do so. They are willing to undo the entire birth registration system of the United States just to satisfy their bigotry. I condemn such things.

    jacko: And an attester is not required to verify that the information is true, only that the signing of the form was done in the presence of the party that completed the document.

  218. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2016 at 2:53 pm #

    The recent site performance problems should be fixed. They were due to a bad plug-in version.

  219. avatar
    Scientist February 17, 2016 at 3:39 pm #

    jacko: And that is why you will see court cases where the wrong father is named in the birth certificate , a case filed, and the State is never charged with a crime of filing a false document.

    In the case of establishing paternity, witnesses usually aren’t in a position to do so. In the case of place and time of birth, they are.

    I have to come back to your own birth (or mine) and how you would establish that as a fact. Have you anything other than a birth certificate to establish where and when you were born? I certainly don’t. Yet I have passports, drivers licenses and so on. Perhaps you don’t. That’s your problem and I really don’t care….

  220. avatar
    Dave B. February 17, 2016 at 4:03 pm #

    Alan Keyes has entered the discussion on Cruz’s eligibility:
    https://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/birther-who-sued-obamas-birth-certificate-says-doubting-cruzs-citizenship-destroys-politics/comments/
    Oh, I see Doc already caught that.
    I keep thinking this isn’t really an open thread, because so much of what gets posted is directly related to the title.

  221. avatar
    J.D. Sue February 17, 2016 at 4:25 pm #

    jacko: Beliefs are not always true, and are hard to overcome …

    —-
    Admitting you have this problem is the first step to recovery…

  222. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2016 at 4:27 pm #

    Hermitian: Is that Bari “Malik” Shabazz or just any ole Bari Shabazz?

    Bari M. Shabazz, born October 28, 1959. The very same Bari Shabazz who was involved in an auto accident in Hawaii in 1982 and who had a New York driver’s license. His home address was 32-26 98th Street, East Elmhurst, NY 11369.

    Incidentally, his New York driver’s license showed that he was four inches shorter than Barack Obama.

  223. avatar
    y_p_w February 17, 2016 at 4:36 pm #

    jacko:

    Further, the State , when asked to authenticate the document , will state that they will only authentic the signature of the certification signed as being a true signature , and state that the State does notclaim that the information on the document is true or correct.

    Do you really think that the State can guarantee the truthfulness of all those forms that are completed by strangers and filed in the government records

    Guarantee? Not specifically. But they do state that the facts are prima facie evidence of the facts as presented on the certificate. At that point when it is presented for a legal purpose, the burden of proof is on the questioner to prove that the facts are incorrect. Hawaii law stands behind the facts as presented to them. It would be impractical for the government to directly monitor every birth or not have a government employee present at every death.

    http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0041.HTM

    PART II. CERTIFICATES OF HAWAIIAN BIRTH

    §338-41 Issuance; procedure. (a) The department of health may make regulations respecting the form of Hawaiian birth certificates and certified copies of such certificates and other matters relating to Hawaii birth certificates as appear necessary and the regulations, when approved and made in accordance with chapter 91, shall have the force of law. The department shall furnish the form of the certificates and copies made therefrom.
    (b) Any certificate of Hawaiian birth issued heretofore under or by virtue of any law of the Territory of Hawaii or the State, shall be prima facie evidence of the facts therein stated.

  224. avatar
    Dave B. February 17, 2016 at 5:45 pm #

    Jack Chin weighs in again on Cruz’s eligibility–

    http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2016/02/the-missing-discussion-of-race-and-xenophobia-in-the-ted-cruz-citizenship-controversy.html

    “The joke is that historical discrimination embodied in US immigration and naturalization law, of a type that he (Cruz) apparently hopes to revive, make his case for natural born citizenship a heavy lift.”

  225. avatar
    Hermitian February 17, 2016 at 6:25 pm #

    Rickey February 17, 2016 at 4:27 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: Is that Bari “Malik” Shabazz or just any ole Bari Shabazz?

    Bari M. Shabazz, born October 28, 1959. The very same Bari Shabazz who was involved in an auto accident in Hawaii in 1982 and who had a New York driver’s license. His home address was 32-26 98th Street, East Elmhurst, NY 11369.

    Incidentally, his New York driver’s license showed that he was four inches shorter than Barack Obama.

    And you know that Bari stopped growing at the age of 16 HOW ?

  226. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2016 at 8:57 pm #

    And you think that the drivers license that was suspended in 1989 was the same one he got when he was 16? HOW?

    Hermitian: And you know that Bari stopped growing at the age of 16 HOW ?

  227. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 17, 2016 at 9:00 pm #

    Hermitian: And you know that Bari stopped growing at the age of 16 HOW ?

    The same guy who told you stuff about breitbart said so.

  228. avatar
    Rickey February 17, 2016 at 9:52 pm #

    Hermitian: And you know that Bari stopped growing at the age of 16 HOW ?

    And you know that Bari had a driver’s license at age 16 HOW?

    In fact, drivers under the age of 18 with junior licenses are not allowed to drive in New York City, so most city teens under 18 don’t bother to get a license until they are 18. Per New York DMV:

    If you have a Class DJ or MJ junior license, you cannot drive within the five boroughs of New York City under any circumstances. Junior permit holders who consistently drive in New York City should delay their road test until their 18th birthday to allow for continued practice driving with approved supervising drivers in vehicles with dual controls (dual brakes).

    And of course you have no idea when Bari Shabazz got his first driver’s license.

    Regardless, he was almost 35 years old when he died, so if he got his original license when he was 18 he would have renewed it twice before his death. Any change in his height should have been noted on his renewal applications.

    And it is apparent from this team photo that Obama was one of the tallest players on his high school basketball team. Taller than his coach, in fact.

    http://wtpotus.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/197820punahou20basketball20team1-2-copy.jpg

  229. avatar
    Hermitian February 17, 2016 at 10:21 pm #

    Rickey February 17, 2016 at 4:27 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: Is that Bari “Malik” Shabazz or just any ole Bari Shabazz?

    Bari M. Shabazz, born October 28, 1959. The very same Bari Shabazz who was involved in an auto accident in Hawaii in 1982 and who had a New York driver’s license. His home address was 32-26 98th Street, East Elmhurst, NY 11369.

    Incidentally, his New York driver’s license showed that he was four inches shorter than Barack Obama.

    You claim to have seen the driver’s license of the Bari Shabazz who was involved in an auto accident in 1982. But Shabazz was not carrying his drivers license at the time of the accident. He also was a no show in court.

    So if you have a driver’s license for a Bari M. Shabazz how do you know that it’s the same Bari Shabazz’s who had a major auto accident in Honolulu?

  230. avatar
    Hermitian February 17, 2016 at 10:29 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2016 at 8:57 pm (Quote) #

    And you think that the drivers license that was suspended in 1989 was the same one he got when he was 16? HOW?

    Hermitian: And you know that Bari stopped growing at the age of 16 HOW ?

    If he obtained his first driver’s license at age 16 and renewed after 8 years in New York State he would have been 24 and men grow until age 43. he would still have that same license in (your) 1989. However he didn’t die until 1994 per the SS death index.

    Physical characteristics are frequently not updated when a license is renewed.

  231. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2016 at 10:42 pm #

    How frequently?

    Hermitian: Physical characteristics are frequently not updated when a license is renewed.

  232. avatar
    Hermitian February 17, 2016 at 11:02 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2016 at 10:42 pm (Quote) #

    How frequently?

    Hermitian: Physical characteristics are frequently not updated when a license is renewed.

    Depends of the State, the method and frequency of renewal and the sex. Here’s a blog:

    Some states don’t require weight.

    http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=437370

  233. avatar
    Rickey February 18, 2016 at 12:08 am #

    Hermitian: You claim to have seen the driver’s license of the Bari Shabazz who was involved in an auto accident in 1982.But Shabazz was not carrying his drivers license at the time of the accident.He also was a no show in court.

    He was cited for “driving without a valid driver’s license.” He may have been carrying an expired driver’s license.

    So if you have a driver’s license for a Bari M. Shabazz how do you know that it’s the same Bari Shabazz’s who had a major auto accident in Honolulu?

    He was ordered to provide proof of a valid New York driver’s license, and New York DMV has no record of any other driver named Bari Shabazz. In fact, there isn’t any record of another person named Bari Shabazz anywhere in the United States, living or dead. That pretty much narrows it down to one person.

  234. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) February 18, 2016 at 4:33 am #

    Hermitian: he would have been 24 and men grow until age 43

    Wrong again.

    However, there are a few cases where men continue to grow till 21 as well while there can be the odd exceptional case where a man might continue to grow till 25.
    => http://www.newhealthguide.org/When-Do-Men-Stop-Growing.html

    Doesn’t it hurt to be *always* wrong?

    But hey, probably all physicians in the world are also part of a conspiracy to hide the fact Obama was still able to grow until he was 43.

  235. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 18, 2016 at 7:19 am #

    So basically, you just made something up, and don’t really know. That’s what I suspected.

    Hermitian:

  236. avatar
    Scientist February 18, 2016 at 7:34 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: So basically, you just made something up, and don’t really know. That’s what I suspected.

    Have you ever run into a birther who doesn’t do that?

  237. avatar
    Hermitian February 18, 2016 at 10:07 am #

    Rickey February 18, 2016 at 12:08 am (Quote) #

    Hermitian: You claim to have seen the driver’s license of the Bari Shabazz who was involved in an auto accident in 1982.But Shabazz was not carrying his drivers license at the time of the accident.He also was a no show in court.

    He was cited for “driving without a valid driver’s license.” He may have been carrying an expired driver’s license.

    So if you have a driver’s license for a Bari M. Shabazz how do you know that it’s the same Bari Shabazz’s who had a major auto accident in Honolulu?

    He was ordered to provide proof of a valid New York driver’s license, and New York DMV has no record of any other driver named Bari Shabazz. In fact, there isn’t any record of another person named Bari Shabazz anywhere in the United States, living or dead. That pretty much narrows it down to one person.

    Those are weasel words for — !! I don’t have a clue whether this Bari Shabazz is the same guy for which I have his NY driver’s license !!.

    The Honolulu Bari was charged with “DRIVG W/O VALID DRIVERS LICENSE”. (HRS 286 – 102)

    By the way, you never did say that you have Bari’s driver’s license.

    You didn’t just make up this story out of whole cloth ????

  238. avatar
    Hermitian February 18, 2016 at 10:20 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in) February 18, 2016 at 4:33 am (Quote) #

    Hermitian: he would have been 24 and men grow until age 43

    Wrong again.

    “However, there are a few cases where men continue to grow till 21 as well while there can be the odd exceptional case where a man might continue to grow till 25.
    => http://www.newhealthguide.org/When-Do-Men-Stop-Growing.html

    Doesn’t it hurt to be *always* wrong?

    But hey, probably all physicians in the world are also part of a conspiracy to hide the fact Obama was still able to grow until he was 43.

    Your age 25 still works for me if Bari renewed his license at age 24 and didn’t update his height. And since we know that Bari was a slippery fellow why would he give an accurate physical description?

  239. avatar
    Hermitian February 18, 2016 at 10:38 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy February 18, 2016 at 7:19 am (Quote) #

    So basically, you just made something up, and don’t really know. That’s what I suspected.

    Hermitian:

    Here’s one reference that opines that some inaccuracies are due to failure to update the “height” on renewal licenses.


    Abstract
    .
    J Forensic Sci. 1991 May;36(3):813-9.

    Inaccuracy of height information on driver’s licenses.

    Willey P1, Falsetti T.

    Abstract

    Height is an important variable in identification. In cases involving decreased individuals, height is measured directly on the corpse or estimated from the skeleton. This postmortem measurement or estimation is then compared with antemortem records, usually the driver’s license. The accuracy of the license information, however, has been questioned. To assess the accuracy of driver’s license information, volunteers’ statures were measured, and then these figures were compared with those printed on the subjects’ licenses. Even in our comparatively young, well-educated sample, the license height was significantly greater than the measured height. Some inaccuracies may be caused by failure to update license information when new licenses are issued, but some inaccuracies may be from personal deception. The implications of these results for forensic anthropology cases are discussed.

    PMID: 1856649 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

  240. avatar
    Rickey February 18, 2016 at 11:36 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    How frequently?

    Someone who sprouted from 5-9″ to 6-1″ after receiving his driver’s license would be foolish not to update his physical characteristics, particularly a black man.

    A 6-foot cop pulls him over, has him get out of the car. and observes that he is an inch taller than the cop. But his driver’s license says that he is 5-9″ tall. The cop is going to detain him, suspecting that he is using another man’s driver’s license.

    As usual, Hermie just makes things up. “Many” killers call 911 to report their crime and drivers “frequently” fail to update the information on their licenses.

  241. avatar
    Rickey February 18, 2016 at 11:46 am #

    The Magic M (not logged in): Wrong again.

    However, there are a few cases where men continue to grow till 21 as well while there can be the odd exceptional case where a man might continue to grow till 25.
    => http://www.newhealthguide.org/When-Do-Men-Stop-Growing.html

    Doesn’t it hurt to be *always* wrong?

    But hey, probably all physicians in the world are also part of a conspiracy to hide the fact Obama was still able to grow until he was 43.

    The most notable example I can think of is the former basketball player David Robinson, who was 6-6″ tall when he was a senior in high school but grew to 7-1″ by the time he graduated from the Naval Academy at the age of 21. Of course, he stopped growing at that point.

  242. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) February 18, 2016 at 12:02 pm #

    Rickey: The cop is going to detain him, suspecting that he is using another man’s driver’s license.

    I think it’d still be more likely the measurement was wrong. If the difference is much larger (say 5+ inches), it’d be a different story.

    Rickey: The most notable example I can think of is the former basketball player David Robinson, who was 6-6″ tall when he was a senior in high school but grew to 7-1″

    The most extreme example will probably always be Robert Pershing Wadlow. And I think even he would’ve stopped growing eventually if he had lived to see it.
    (John Rogan is on record for growing until his death at age 40, but if that had been the case with Obama, he’d be above 9″ already.)

  243. avatar
    Notorial Dissent February 18, 2016 at 1:10 pm #

    I think it is just simplest just to say, that as per usual, Hermie is making it all up on the fly, since as usual, he really knows nothing, and as usual is a waste of time..

  244. avatar
    Hermitian February 18, 2016 at 2:22 pm #

    Rickey February 18, 2016 at 11:36 am (Quote) #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    How frequently?

    Someone who sprouted from 5-9″ to 6-1″ after receiving his driver’s license would be foolish not to update his physical characteristics, particularly a black man.

    A 6-foot cop pulls him over, has him get out of the car. and observes that he is an inch taller than the cop. But his driver’s license says that he is 5-9″ tall. The cop is going to detain him, suspecting that he is using another man’s driver’s license.

    As usual, Hermie just makes things up. “Many” killers call 911 to report their crime and drivers “frequently” fail to update the information on their licenses.

    You were the one who kicked all this off by claiming that you had Honolulu Bari’s driver’s license and it showed that Bari was four inches shorter than Obama. But you never verified that you have a driver’s license for Bari M. Shabazz (as you claimed) nor did you post the renewal date for this license. Nor did you state Obama’s age for your 4-inch difference.

  245. avatar
    Crustacean February 18, 2016 at 3:54 pm #

    But those guys suffered from giantism, associated with disease of the pituitary gland. To my knowledge, the tallest recorded non-pathological giant is the 19th Century Scottish-Canadian Angus MacAskill. He grew to his full height of 7′ 9″ by the time he was around 22 years old.

    He was known for his feats of strength, like lifting ship anchors weighing over a ton, and “single-handedly set(ting) a 40-foot mast into a schooner” (Wikipedia). He’s a distant relative of yours-truly, and my family even had an old LP of folk music all about his exploits. It kills me that no one in my family knows what happened to that record. Anyway, if he had been a late 20th Century giant, I think he could’ve given Shaq a run for his money in the paint!

    The Magic M (not logged in): The most extreme example will probably always be Robert Pershing Wadlow. And I think even he would’ve stopped growing eventually if he had lived to see it.
    (John Rogan is on record for growing until his death at age 40, but if that had been the case with Obama, he’d be above 9″ already.)

  246. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 18, 2016 at 4:53 pm #

    Still haven’t gotten the hang of the quote function, I see.

    Hermitian: Dr. Conspiracy:

  247. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 18, 2016 at 5:10 pm #

    Hermitian: You were the one who kicked all this off by claiming that you had Honolulu Bari’s driver’s license and it showed that Bari was four inches shorter than Obama. But you never verified that you have a driver’s license for Bari M. Shabazz (as you claimed) nor did you post the renewal date for this license. Nor did you state Obama’s age for your 4-inch difference.

    Not sure how you think any of your craziness matters. You also try to hold out the Lucas Smith forgery as being true and the dimensions listed on that would be for a child suffering from dwarfism.

  248. avatar
    Notorial Dissent February 18, 2016 at 7:16 pm #

    Hermie can’t seem to master the simple things, like the quote function, reality, telling the truth. I keep wondering who dresses and fees him and cleans his bottom.

  249. avatar
    Hermitian February 18, 2016 at 8:05 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy February 18, 2016 at 4:53 pm (Quote) #

    “Still haven’t gotten the hang of the quote function, I see.”

    Hermitian: Dr. Conspiracy:

    I wasn’t going to mention it but now that you brought it up, I’ve noticed lately that your comment editor randomly eats manually input blockquotes.

    I had decided to ignore it because it’s not smart to dwell on the small stuff.

  250. avatar
    Hermitian February 18, 2016 at 8:18 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Not sure how you think any of your craziness matters.You also try to hold out the Lucas Smith forgery as being true and the dimensions listed on that would be for a child suffering from dwarfism.

    I guess nothing matters if YOU throw logic out the window.

    But you do need to post your source for the Lucas Smith comment that you associated with me.

  251. avatar
    Hermitian February 18, 2016 at 8:22 pm #

    Notorial Dissent February 18, 2016 at 7:16 pm (Quote) #

    “Hermie can’t seem to master the simple things, like the quote function, reality, telling the truth. I keep wondering who dresses and fees him and cleans his bottom.”

    Show me someone who obsesses about the trivial stuff and I’ll show you an inconsequential nobody.

  252. avatar
    Dave B. February 18, 2016 at 10:02 pm #

    Fun and games in Maryland next week–
    http://www.law.umaryland.edu/calendar/#/?i=1
    “The Natural Born Citizen Clause: A Study in Constitutional Meaning” Panel Discussion

  253. avatar
    Rickey February 19, 2016 at 2:34 am #

    Hermitian:

    Hermie February 18, 2016 at 10:07 am

    By the way, you never did say that you have Bari’s driver’s license.

    Hermie February 18, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    You were the one who kicked all this off by claiming that you had Honolulu Bari’s driver’s license

    You’re having trouble making up your mind about what I said. Are you a bit confused today?

    To set the record straight, I never said that I have Bari Shabazz’s driver’s license. I have an abstract of his driving record.

    Bari died in 1994, 21 1/2 years ago. New York DMV records don’t show when he was first issued a driver’s license. His driver’s license number was 992383576. His name is shown as Bari M. Shabazz. His record shows that he was born on 10/28/1959. His height is listed as 5-9″ and he had brown eyes. His driving privileges were suspended on 1/3/1989 for failure to answer a summons in Queens County. That is the last activity shown on his driving record.

    Mario Apuzzo wrote this about Bari Shabazz on 11/8/2011: “Bari Shabazz was charged with driving without a driver’s license. The court ordered him to show proof of his New York driver’s license. Hence, Bari Shabazz must have told the charging police officer or the court that he did have a driver’s license and that it was one issued by the State of New York. Hence, Bari Shabazz must have been a resident of the State of New York.”

    This isn’t complicated, so you should be able to keep up.

    Bari Shabazz apparently was involved in an auto accident in Hawaii on 3/12/1982. He was cited for driving without a valid driver’s license.

    He obviously claimed that he had a New York driver’s license, because the docket shows that he was ordered to produce a copy of his New York license. Whether he ever did so is unclear.

    A search of New York DMV records turns up only one licensed driver named Bari Shabazz. He was born on 10/28/1959 and the Social Security Death Index shows that he died in August, 1994.

    Mario Apuzzo reported in 2011 that he conducted a LexisNexis search for Bari Shabazz and was unable to find any record of another Bari Shabazz anywhere in the United States. I have searched multiple databases, including LexisNexis, and I concur that there is no record of any person in the United States, either alive or dead, named Bari Shabazz other than the man who was born in 1959 and died in 1994.

    Given those facts, the only conclusion that a logical mind can reach is that the Bari Shabazz who was cited in Hawaii is the Bari M. Shabazz who had a New York driver’s license.

  254. avatar
    Keith February 19, 2016 at 6:09 am #

    Rickey: The most notable example I can think of is the former basketball player David Robinson, who was 6-6″ tall when he was a senior in high school but grew to 7-1″ by the time he graduated from the Naval Academy at the age of 21. Of course, he stopped growing at that point.

    My niece was at the Academy with him.

  255. avatar
    Slartibartfast February 19, 2016 at 6:17 am #

    So was my brother-in-law.

    Keith: My niece was at the Academy with him.

  256. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 19, 2016 at 9:11 am #

    I couldn’t have put it better myself.

    Hermitian: Show me someone who obsesses about the trivial stuff and I’ll show you an inconsequential nobody.

  257. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 19, 2016 at 9:12 am #

    I’ve never seen this problem or had anyone else complain about it.

    Hermitian: I wasn’t going to mention it but now that you brought it up, I’ve noticed lately that your comment editor randomly eats manually input blockquotes.

  258. avatar
    Hermitian February 19, 2016 at 11:06 am #

    Rickey February 19, 2016 at 2:34 am Rickey(Quote) #

    Hermitian:

    Hermie February 18, 2016 at 10:07 am

    “”By the way, you never did say that you have Bari’s driver’s license.””

    Hermie February 18, 2016 at 2:22 pm

    “”You were the one who kicked all this off by claiming that you had Honolulu Bari’s driver’s license””

    “You’re having trouble making up your mind about what I said. Are you a bit confused today?”

    “To set the record straight, I never said that I have Bari Shabazz’s driver’s license. I have an abstract of his driving record.”

    “Bari died in 1994, 21 1/2 years ago. New York DMV records don’t show when he was first issued a driver’s license. His driver’s license number was 992383576. His name is shown as Bari M. Shabazz. His record shows that he was born on 10/28/1959.

    “His height is listed as 5-9″ and he had brown eyes. His driving privileges were suspended on 1/3/1989 for failure to answer a summons in Queens County. That is the last activity shown on his driving record.”

    “Mario Apuzzo wrote this about Bari Shabazz on 11/8/2011: “Bari Shabazz was charged with driving without a driver’s license. The court ordered him to show proof of his New York driver’s license. Hence, Bari Shabazz must have told the charging police officer or the court that he did have a driver’s license and that it was one issued by the State of New York. Hence, Bari Shabazz must have been a resident of the State of New York.””

    It would had to have been the police officer because Bari was a no-show to court. So it’s unlikely that Bari corresponded with the court about his NY driver’s license.

    This isn’t complicated, so you should be able to keep up.

    “Bari Shabazz apparently was involved in an auto accident in Hawaii on 3/12/1982. He was cited for driving without a valid driver’s license.”

    “He obviously claimed that he had a New York driver’s license, because the docket shows that he was ordered to produce a copy of his New York license. Whether he ever did so is unclear.”

    “A search of New York DMV records turns up only one licensed driver named Bari Shabazz. He was born on 10/28/1959 and the Social Security Death Index shows that he died in August, 1994.”

    “Mario Apuzzo reported in 2011 that he conducted a LexisNexis search for Bari Shabazz and was unable to find any record of another Bari Shabazz anywhere in the United States. I have searched multiple databases, including LexisNexis, and I concur that there is no record of any person in the United States, either alive or dead, named Bari Shabazz other than the man who was born in 1959 and died in 1994.”

    Given those facts, the only conclusion that a logical mind can reach is that the Bari Shabazz who was cited in Hawaii is the Bari M. Shabazz who had a New York driver’s license.

    But “Bari Malik Shabazz” lived in Hawaii in 1980 near Frank Marshall Davis. So you’ve got to wonder why the Honolulu police couldn’t track him down since he was a wanted man after his no-show in 1982.

    But why would Bari Malik Shabazz have a New York driver’s license in 1982 when he lived in Hawaii way back from1980? What possible connection did Bari M. Shabazz have to New York?

    And where was “Barri Malik Shabazz” after his accident in 1982.

    My guess is that he was using the alias Barry Obama and had just finished his second year of study at Occidental College as a foreign student.

    Also we know that Bari “Malik Shabazz” did not officially exist in 1974.

    There is no accurate record that “Bari Malik Shabazz” was born anywhere in 1959.

    So where’s your proof that Bari Malik Shabazz was born in 1959?

    Do try harder to keep up.

  259. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund February 19, 2016 at 11:44 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I’ve never seen this problem or had anyone else complain about it.

    I manually enter blockquotes all the time and have never noticed a problem.

  260. avatar
    Notorial Dissent February 19, 2016 at 12:01 pm #

    Show me someone who can’t master the trivial and I’ll show you someone who is beyond bewildered by the complex, Hermy in both cases and who is an inconsequential nobody.

    Hermitian: Show me someone who obsesses about the trivial stuff and I’ll show you an inconsequential nobody.

  261. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 19, 2016 at 12:09 pm #

    Hermitian: Show me someone who obsesses about the trivial stuff and I’ll show you an inconsequential nobody.

    You’re both in this case. You’ve already shown us that you obsess over trivial stuff and are an inconsequential nobody. I’d say your mission is accomplished.

  262. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 19, 2016 at 12:10 pm #

    Hermitian: I guess nothing matters if YOU throw logic out the window.

    But you do need to post your source for the Lucas Smith comment that you associated with me.

    Your comments on the amazon forums. Do you really not know your history?

  263. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 19, 2016 at 12:11 pm #

    Hermitian: I wasn’t going to mention it but now that you brought it up, I’ve noticed lately that your comment editor randomly eats manually input blockquotes.

    Have you tried highlighting the text you want to quote then hitting the quote button? Then typing your drivel after the end of the block quote. Then highlighting the next bit of text you want to quote and repeating the same steps?

  264. avatar
    Northland10 February 19, 2016 at 1:33 pm #

    Hermitian: I wasn’t going to mention it but now that you brought it up, I’ve noticed lately that your comment editor randomly eats manually input blockquotes.

    Works

    fine

    for

    me.

    And of course

    Northland10 reminds you:There is always the ability to edit comments for a short time after posting.

    Unfortunately, you have to take your time and proof your work.

  265. avatar
    Hermitian February 19, 2016 at 1:35 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund February 19, 2016 at 11:44 am (Quote) #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I’ve never seen this problem or had anyone else complain about it.

    I manually enter blockquotes all the time and have never noticed a problem.

    It’s probably not a problem with Win XP.

  266. avatar
    Hermitian February 19, 2016 at 1:39 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy February 17, 2016 at 2:53 pm (Quote) #

    “The recent site performance problems should be fixed. They were due to a bad plug-in version.”

    This is about the time that the disappearing “blockquotes” went away.

  267. avatar
    Hermitian February 19, 2016 at 1:52 pm #

    Rickey February 17, 2016 at 12:22 am (Quote) #

    “The Social Security Administration sent me a letter acknowledging receipt of my request for the SS-5 of Bari Shabazz. I should have it in a few weeks, and we will then know who his parents were.”

    “My guess: his parents were not Malcolm X and Stanley Ann Dunham.”

    I’ll save you the suspense. Bari Malik Shabazz’s SS-5 has already been produced by the Social Security Administration. They totally redacted the parent’s names because they have no proof of Bari’s death.

  268. avatar
    Hermitian February 19, 2016 at 2:01 pm #

    Notorial Dissent February 19, 2016 at 12:01 pm (Quote) #

    Show me someone who can’t master the trivial and I’ll show you someone who is beyond bewildered by the complex, Hermy in both cases and who is an inconsequential nobody.

    Hermitian: Show me someone who obsesses about the trivial stuff and I’ll show you an inconsequential nobody.

    I don’t remember you posting any complex posts that use lots of “blockquotes”. That likely explains it.

  269. avatar
    Hermitian February 19, 2016 at 2:06 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater February 19, 2016 at 12:10 pm (Quote) #

    Hermitian: I guess nothing matters if YOU throw logic out the window.

    But you do need to post your source for the Lucas Smith comment that you associated with me.

    Your comments on the amazon forums. Do you really not know your history?

    I vaguely remember reading a report by someone who attempted to analyze the footprints on the Obama Kenya BC.

  270. avatar
    Thrifty February 19, 2016 at 2:15 pm #

    I’m lost. What does a New Yorker who got caught driving without a license have to do with Barack Obama? I guess the first names start out the same and both people are connected to the state of Hawaii? Or is the assumption “some guy might have been using a fake driver’s license, so the president’s birth certificate might be fake”?

  271. avatar
    Hermitian February 19, 2016 at 2:17 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater:

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
    February 19, 2016 at 12:11 pm Dr. Kenneth Noisewater(Quote)
    #

    Hermitian: I wasn’t going to mention it but now that you brought it up, I’ve noticed lately that your comment editor randomly eats manually input blockquotes.
    Have you tried highlighting the text you want to quote then hitting the quote button? Then typing your drivel after the end of the block quote. Then highlighting the next bit of text you want to quote and repeating the same steps?

    I use that for short comments (like this one). However for long quotes I always copy and paste from/to a text editor. I do that on all the sites that I post to because the real-time editors frequently eat the post and then return an empty window when the post is submitted. It’s not fun to start over on a long one. Also then I keep a copy of the post for awhile for rebuttal comments. That way I don’t have to find my previous post in the stream of comments on the web page when I post again to destroy the rebuttals.

  272. avatar
    Hermitian February 19, 2016 at 2:20 pm #

    Thrifty: I’m lost. What does a New Yorker who got caught driving without a license have to do with Barack Obama? I guess the first names start out the same and both people are connected to the state of Hawaii? Or is the assumption “some guy might have been using a fake driver’s license, so the president’s birth certificate might be fake”?

    Ask Rickey. He seems to believe that his investigation is going somewhere.

  273. avatar
    Hermitian February 19, 2016 at 2:41 pm #

    Northland10: Hermitian: I wasn’t going to mention it but now that you brought it up, I’ve noticed lately that your comment editor randomly eats manually input blockquotes.

    Works
    fine
    for
    me.
    And of course
    Northland10 reminds you:There is always the ability to edit comments for a short time after posting.
    Unfortunately, you have to take your time and proof your work.

    Simple posts are easy to proof. That probably explains it.

    Mr. C. doubled his “edit time” from 5 to 10 minutes. That’s an improvement but I prefer unlimited time for edits like on Amazon Discussions. But alas ! Mr, C. is not a trusting soul. He likes to know exactly what he will deleting after he boots someone off his blog.

  274. avatar
    jacko February 19, 2016 at 3:39 pm #

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: I think jacko is projecting his own criminal activities off on others. A while back he admitted on amazon to stealing someone else’s social security number and using it to commit fraud

    Actually what I said was that during WW2, when I was at the NAAS at Monterey Ca. the Navy encouraged enlisted men to do work for the canning factories in Monterey. When I applied for the 65cents an hour job, I did not have a SSN so the company , needing one, asked me to make one up. Which I did , under my name, with a random number that met the ss standards.
    You are not old enough to understand that the sailors did not have ssn’s , are you?

  275. avatar
    jacko February 19, 2016 at 3:44 pm #

    Rickey: The Federal government assumed that my birth certificate is correct when I applied for a Social Security Number, when I enlisted in the Navy, and when I applied for and was issued a passport.

    And on all three occasions the government accepted my short-form birth certificate, which contains less information than Obama’s short-form birth certificate.

    Rest assured that the FBI verified that for you.

    Yoda:
    Based on the Federal Rules of Evidence, the Federal Government does not have a problem with birth certificates. A certified copy of a birth certificate is admissible as an exception to the hearsay rule as prima facile evidence of the information contained therein.

  276. avatar
    jacko February 19, 2016 at 4:05 pm #

    y_p_w: Guarantee?Not specifically.But they do state that the facts are prima facie evidence of the facts as presented on the certificate.At that point when it is presented for a legal purpose, the burden of proof is on the questioner to prove that the facts are incorrect.Hawaii law stands behind the facts as presented to them.It would be impractical for the government to directly monitor every birth or not have a government employee present at every death.

    And here there is an error. because “Hawaiian Blrth” is different than the normal birth certificate.

    It require verification and establishment that the child is descended from Native Hawaiians and the mother and father are descendants of NATIVE HAWAIIANS.

    of which one side of the family of my brother are of such native descent.

    And to further educate the readers of this site, the FACT OF THE BIRTH is why the birth certificate are so annotated.

    Because the named parents can be altered, or changed by law, but the time and place of the birth must be the same.

    If a child is adopted and the parents names altered then the Prima Facie would be fraudulent, but by just use the birth fact, that would be proper

    Just can not verify the other stuff on the document as it is subject to amendment and alterations.

  277. avatar
    gorefan February 19, 2016 at 4:26 pm #

    According to PPSimmons Facebook, Mike Zullo supposedly will be on Freedom Friday today (2/19/2016).

    Probably nothing new.

  278. avatar
    W. Kevin Vicklund February 19, 2016 at 4:34 pm #

    Thrifty:
    I’m lost.What does a New Yorker who got caught driving without a license have to do with Barack Obama?I guess the first names start out the same and both people are connected to the state of Hawaii?Or is the assumption “some guy might have been using a fake driver’s license, so the president’s birth certificate might be fake”?

    Hermie, as ignorant of human anatomy, has decided that Obama’s cranial sutures are actually scars from an auto accident [insert Bari Shabazz’s 1982 accident here]. In reality, a lot of people with close cropped hair or bald heads have visible cranial sutures, and it is particularly noticeable on black men. There are 3 men iny 23 person department that are bald or have close cropped hair – all three have visible cranial sutures, and on the two black men, they are visible from 20 feet away.

  279. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 19, 2016 at 4:35 pm #

    That topic has no relevance here.

    jacko: And here there is an error. because “Hawaiian Blrth” is different than the normal birth certificate.

  280. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 19, 2016 at 4:39 pm #

    If you make an error with the blockquote (or any other HTML) tags, then the editor will attempt to fix it, and not always in a way you would want. On occasion, I fix mangled tags in posts when I think it’s worth the trouble.

    Hermitian: I don’t remember you posting any complex posts that use lots of “blockquotes”. That likely explains it.

  281. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 19, 2016 at 4:42 pm #

    The WP to Twitter plug-in was only broken for about a day, and I could not imagine how it would effect the quote function.

    Hermitian: This is about the time that the disappearing “blockquotes” went away.

  282. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 19, 2016 at 4:43 pm #

    I’ve spend a while on XP lately, helping a couple of seniors with their email. Chrome no longer provides updates for XP.

    Hermitian: It’s probably not a problem with Win XP.

  283. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy February 19, 2016 at 4:51 pm #

    That doesn’t make any sense. If if I want to know what I am deleting, I can look at it. The comment editing period is there to prevent someone from changing a comment after it’s replied to (which I cannot do directly, only through the timer).

    Hermitian: But alas ! Mr, C. is not a trusting soul. He likes to know exactly what he will deleting after he boots someone off his blog.

  284. avatar
    gorefan February 19, 2016 at 4:55 pm #

    jacko: Just can not verify the other stuff on the document as it is subject to amendment and alterations.

    Are you saying that the date the birth certificate was signed by the doctor can be changed by amendment?

  285. avatar
    Heremitian February 19, 2016 at 6:08 pm #

    W. Kevin Vicklund: W. Kevin Vicklund
    February 19, 2016 at 4:34 pm W. Kevin Vicklund(Quote)
    #

    Thrifty:
    I’m lost.What does a New Yorker who got caught driving without a license have to do with Barack Obama?I guess the first names start out the same and both people are connected to the state of Hawaii?Or is the assumption “some guy might have been using a fake driver’s license, so the president’s birth certificate might be fake”?

    Hermie, as ignorant of human anatomy, has decided that Obama’s cranial sutures are actually scars from an auto accident [insert Bari Shabazz’s 1982 accident here]. In reality, a lot of people with close cropped hair or bald heads have visible cranial sutures, and it is particularly noticeable on black men. There are 3 men iny 23 person department that are bald or have close cropped hair – all three have visible cranial sutures, and on the two black men, they are visible from 20 feet away.

    No one knows what Bari Malik Shabazz’s head scars looked like (if he had them). However, if he did have cranial scars, it would not be extreme to assume that they were caused by his auto accident.

    To the contrary, we do know what Obama’s head scars look like but we don’t know what caused them.

    So both unknowns would be resolved if these two men were actually one and the same person.

    The fact that both of these (purported to be) different people lived in Hawaii in 1980 and both lived in Honolulu near Frank Marshall Davis does lead any curious person to speculate that they may be one and the same person.

  286. avatar
    Rickey February 19, 2016 at 7:07 pm #

    Thrifty:
    I’m lost.What does a New Yorker who got caught driving without a license have to do with Barack Obama?I guess the first names start out the same and both people are connected to the state of Hawaii?Or is the assumption “some guy might have been using a fake driver’s license, so the president’s birth certificate might be fake”?

    Birther Martha Trowbridge made the claim that Barack Obama is actually Bari Shabazz, and that his parents are Malcolm X and Stanley Ann Dunham.

    Malcolm X’s birth name was Malcolm Little, but he also was known as el-Hajj Malik el-Shabazz. Mario Apuzzo gave the story enough credence to devote articles about it on his blog:

    http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2011/11/is-putative-president-barack-hussein.html

    It turns out that Bari Shabazz’s driving record shows that he was four inches shorter than Obama, but that hasn’t satisfied birthers, as you can see from the ramblings of Hermitian, Trowbridge apparently believes that Shabazz is a very rare surname, but there are plenty of people with that name in New York. There just aren’t any other people named Bari Shabazz.

  287. avatar
    Rickey February 19, 2016 at 7:12 pm #

    Hermitian: Ask Rickey.He seems to believe that his investigation is going somewhere.

    Birthers are the ones who made an issue of Bari Shabazz, not me. I am merely proving that Barack Obama and Bari Shabazz could not possibly be the same person.

  288. avatar
    Rickey February 19, 2016 at 7:17 pm #

    jacko: Rest assured that the FBI verified that for you.

    My Social Security card was issued by the Post Office the same day I applied for it, and the Navy recruiter swore me into the Navy Reserves the day I signed up. That was pretty fast work by the FBI!

  289. avatar
    Northland10 February 19, 2016 at 8:31 pm #

    Rickey: My Social Security card was issued by the Post Office the same day I applied for it, and the Navy recruiter swore me into the Navy Reserves the day I signed up. That was pretty fast work by the FBI!

    When I was preparing to substitute teach and apply for teaching positions after graduation, we were warned early on that the the background check from the FBI would be 90 days after sending our fingerprints (this was mid 1990s). You must have a real inside track there.

    If I remember correctly, when I had former students who were in the security clearance process, it was investigators from the Office of Personnel Management that showed up in my office to have a chat. It was definitely not the FBI.

  290. avatar
    Northland10 February 19, 2016 at 8:40 pm #

    Hermitian: I’ll save you the suspense.Bari Malik Shabazz’s SS-5 has already been produced by the Social Security Administration.They totally redacted the parent’s names because they have no proof of Bari’s death.

    Where is the proof that such form was released? Where have you seen it? Where did the SSA claim to redact the parents name because Bari was, by their records, still alive?

    If they had no record of Bari’s death, they would not have released SS-5 at all. They would not have released a redacted one since the persons information that needs to be protected is the living person.

    Are you just making things up?

  291. avatar
    Hermitian February 19, 2016 at 9:31 pm #

    Rickey: Thrifty:
    I’m lost.What does a New Yorker who got caught driving without a license have to do with Barack Obama?I guess the first names start out the same and both people are connected to the state of Hawaii?Or is the assumption “some guy might have been using a fake driver’s license, so the president’s birth certificate might be fake”?

    Birther Martha Trowbridge made the claim that Barack Obama is actually Bari Shabazz, and that his parents are Malcolm X and Stanley Ann Dunham.
    Malcolm X’s birth name was Malcolm Little, but he also was known as el-Hajj Malik el-Shabazz. Mario Apuzzo gave the story enough credence to devote articles about it on his blog:
    http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2011/11/is-putative-president-barack-hussein.html
    It turns out that Bari Shabazz’s driving record shows that he was four inches shorter than Obama, but that hasn’t satisfied birthers, as you can see from the ramblings of Hermitian, Trowbridge apparently believes that Shabazz is a