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The occasional open thread: when all you have is a hammer, be careful

imagePut your Obama conspiracy comments that don’t relate to the current articles here. This thread will close in two weeks.

120 Responses to The occasional open thread: when all you have is a hammer, be careful

  1. avatar
    Keith March 6, 2016 at 4:13 am #

    Anybody seen the supposed branding for the Drumph Campaign?

    He seems to be throwing his British Citizenship in everyone’s face.

  2. avatar
    Sluffy1 March 6, 2016 at 7:42 am #

    Lupin:
    The smell of bonfires:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-right-hand-salute_us_56db50d8e4b03a405678e27a

    “The clip mirrored scenes of Hitler addressing crowds in Nazi Germany and performing the Nazi salute — a raised right hand.”

    Meh. This is trying to make something of a nothing. Really,
    Trumps right hand salute is like Hitlers is as valid as Obama was flashing gang signs.
    His request to the roused rabble was for a promise to vote for him. A Pledge of Allegiance so to speak.
    The clip also mirrored scenes of our grade school children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance even after we entered WII.

    I’m hoping Trump keeps doing well. A Trump victory or brokered republican convention may well end that party or it chances to win the white house for a generation… or two.

  3. avatar
    roadburner March 6, 2016 at 8:00 am #

    Lupin:
    The smell of bonfires:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-right-hand-salute_us_56db50d8e4b03a405678e27a

    funny, but one of the memes that was spread around about president Obama was that he wanted to change the military pledge to actually pledge allegence to him personally.

    and here we have the same bunch pledging personal allegence to drumpf

    scary stuff indeed…….

  4. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) March 7, 2016 at 4:14 am #

    Sluffy1: may well end that party or it chances to win the white house for a generation… or two

    As much as a part of me would love to see that happen, sanity dictates that it’s never good for a country to have only one strong party. I remember 16 years of Helmut Kohl as German chancellor, and it wasn’t for the better (w.r.t. corruption and the unwillingness to enact any kind of reform).

  5. avatar
    Sluffy1 March 7, 2016 at 7:36 am #

    Germany is always a good worse case scenario.
    We’ve elected presidents belonging to 5 different parties.
    As it stands now, besides normal people, a third of the republican party is the safe house of and amasses votes from all manner of hate groups, sovcits, birthers, gun nuts, truthers, anti choice, anti immigration and I could go on…. that’s the republicans “Big Tent” and what they’re forced to cater to..
    I’d rather todays Democratic party be the stronger of the two.
    As for Trump, most disturbing to me is not his rhetoric, it’s the realization that there are so many of us that support his notions…. and he has chance to be their candidate.
    … it’s crazy, never in my wildest dreams did I ever think in a debate for the Presidency of the USA I’d have to hear about how big of a Dick somebody had and being a Pussy said of another…. wtf?

  6. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2016 at 10:04 am #

    We have some number of racists, xenophobes and authoritarian followers in the country. They have found a voice in Donald Trump. My opinion is that the number is somewhere around 30%. Fear increases authoritarian following and that’s why the right wing tries to increase the level of fear.

    What we could be seeing is the beginning of a European-style right-wing political party in the US. I’d be interested in seeing how a three-party system works: a nationalist party, a conservative party and a liberal democratic party.

    What bugs me the most about the present configuration is institutional paralysis in Congress. With a three-party system, it would seem there would be more incentive for politicians to compromise.

    Sluffy1: As for Trump, most disturbing to me is not his rhetoric, it’s the realization that there are so many of us that support his notions…. and he has chance to be their candidate.

  7. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2016 at 10:08 am #

    The Orly Taitz Super PAC web site has gone dark. The domain registration expired.

  8. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2016 at 10:27 am #

    Orly Taitz says she had a hearing in her immigration lawsuit, Taitz v. Johnson on March 1. She has until March 11 to submit additional arguments.

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/the-hearing-in-taitz-v-johnson-obama-et-al-was-held-today-the-argument-by-the-government-is-shocking/

    Most of Orly’s articles of late deal with the 2016 presidential election, in which she supports Donald Trump (with some friendly words for Bernie Sanders). Pretty much all of the articles are promotion of Trump’s candidacy. As I was reading through her material, I was reminded of the Birther Report commenter now using the name Trumpster.

  9. avatar
    Thrifty March 7, 2016 at 12:03 pm #

    I feel like Orly Taitz is largely driven by xenophobia. She rails heavily against NAFTA, illegal immigration, and Muslims. She loves Trump, obviously, for these reasons.

    The kind words for Sanders are a bit mystifying. Orly doesn’t exactly seem liberal, but I think she and Bernie Sanders are just really against outsourcing and offshoring of American jobs. I also feel like she hates Clinton and Obama, and there’s a little of that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” going on there.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Most of Orly’s articles of late deal with the 2016 presidential election, in which she supports Donald Trump (with some friendly words for Bernie Sanders). Pretty much all of the articles are promotion of Trump’s candidacy. As I was reading through her material, I was reminded of the Birther Report commenter now using the name Trumpster.

  10. avatar
    jacko March 7, 2016 at 2:04 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    We have some number of racists, xenophobes and authoritarian followers in the country. They have found a voice in Donald Trump. My opinion is that the number is somewhere around 30%. Fear increases authoritarian following and that’s why the right wing tries to increase the level of fear.

    What we could be seeing is the beginning of a European-style right-wing political party in the US. I’d be interested in seeing how a three-party system works: a nationalist party, a conservative party and a liberal democratic party.

    What bugs me the most about the present configuration is institutional paralysis in Congress. With a three-party system, it would seem there would be more incentive for politicians to compromise.

    It is simply following the line of discussion shown in Plato’s “The Republic” where the elected government taxes the people to provide more for the voters who do not pay taxes, and , finally, the taxpayers revolt and elect a dictator who promises to lower the government spending and taxes and control the excessive spending of the state.
    There appears to be no stable government system that works to the benefit of all.

  11. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2016 at 3:43 pm #

    I think perhaps the more apt model is found in Girard’s The Scapegoat.

    jacko: It is simply following the line of discussion shown in Plato’s “The Republic”

  12. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 7, 2016 at 4:06 pm #

    I assumed it was because he is Jewish.

    Thrifty: The kind words for Sanders are a bit mystifying.

  13. avatar
    Notorial Dissent March 7, 2016 at 6:39 pm #

    Reason and Taitz are not even in a nodding acquaintance.

  14. avatar
    Rickey March 8, 2016 at 12:37 pm #

    Carl Gallups has endorsed Trump. Trump calls the endorsement “a great honor.”

    http://mediamatters.org/research/2016/03/08/donald-trump-great-honor-to-be-endorsed-by-sand/209076

  15. avatar
    Crustacean March 8, 2016 at 1:00 pm #

    Holy crud! So screen-name Barry Soetoro, ESQ (sorry, “nom de plume” is too dignified for that moron) is now being quoted by Media Matters? What if Gallups’ endorsement and Sandy Hook hoaxer stuff finds its way into the next presidential debate (think it’s not possible? Remember, the last one included an exchange about dimensions of one of the candidate’s private parts). Our insufferable pal BS’er could actually become part of the narrative of this election. Have I awoken in some parallel universe? Is this the Bizarro World?

    But for once I have to agree with Donald Trump: Carl Gallups is incredible*, all right!

    *in·cred·i·ble
    /inˈkredəb(ə)l/

    adjective

    1.impossible to believe.
    synonyms: unbelievable, beyond belief, hard to believe, unconvincing, far-fetched, implausible, improbable, highly unlikely, dubious, doubtful

    Rickey: Carl Gallups has endorsed Trump. Trump calls the endorsement “a great honor.”

  16. avatar
    bob March 8, 2016 at 1:21 pm #

    That is hi-larious that Trump thinks Gallups has endorsed Trump. Because on “Freedom Friday” Gallups expressly said that he had not endorsed Trump. Rather, Gallups said that he had been invited to give the invocation, so he did, which is not an endorsement (says Gallups). Gallups made it sound like he was a slut and would pray in front of any TV camera.

    And, of course, Gallups has all but endorsed Trump: every episode of “Freedom Friday” discusses the asserted ineligibility of Cruz and Rubio.

    And, yes, BSE, is now a correspondent for PPS. BSE is also currently peddling that Cruz came to the United States in 1974, and became a U.S. citizen only under Reagan’s 1986 amnesty. A “theory” discussed on “Freedom Friday” just last week.

  17. avatar
    Scientist March 8, 2016 at 2:56 pm #

    bob: BSE is also currently peddling that Cruz came to the United States in 1974, and became a U.S. citizen only under Reagan’s 1986 amnesty.

    Aren’t naturalizations a matter of public record that any opposing candidate could easily access? Even the clowns working for Trumpolini ought to be able to find them, no?

  18. avatar
    bob March 8, 2016 at 3:11 pm #

    Serious people don’t think Cruz naturalized, and it is easier (and more effective) for clowns such as Gallups to throw smoke than, yaknow, get the actual evidence.

  19. avatar
    bob March 8, 2016 at 6:15 pm #

    The NY Daily News and Salon are now running stories about Gallups “endorsing” Trump.

  20. avatar
    Dave March 8, 2016 at 6:55 pm #

    This is an interesting question. I spent a little time studying uscis.gov, and I came to the conclusion that most naturalization records are not public records, but I can’t rule out that you might be able to get something.

    Scientist: Aren’t naturalizations a matter of public record that any opposing candidate could easily access?Even the clowns working for Trumpolini ought to be able to find them, no?

  21. avatar
    Joey March 8, 2016 at 11:29 pm #

    jacko: It issimply following the line of discussion shown in Plato’s “The Republic” where the electedgovernmenttaxes the people to provide more for the voters who do not pay taxes, and , finally, the taxpayers revolt and elect a dictatorwho promises to lower the government spending and taxes andcontrol the excessive spending of the state.
    There appears tobe no stablegovernment system that works to the benefit of all.

    “You can’t please all of the people all of the time.”–John Lydgate
    Russia Receives Lowest Approval in World; U.S. Highest
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/182795/russia-receives-lowest-approval-world-highest.aspx

  22. avatar
    Thrifty March 9, 2016 at 9:20 am #

    I don’t think there is anything about birtherism that irritates me more that the “Hillary Clinton started Birtherism” meme. Because:

    One — it isn’t true to begin with. As I recall, a Clinton SUPPORTER unaffiliated with her 2008 campaign started it.
    Two — even if it were true, it’d be irrelevant because it was Republican nut jobs who took the ball and ran with it.

  23. avatar
    Rickey March 9, 2016 at 11:37 am #

    Thrifty:
    I don’t think there is anything about birtherism that irritates me more that the “Hillary Clinton started Birtherism” meme.Because:

    One — it isn’t true to begin with.As I recall, a Clinton SUPPORTER unaffiliated with her 2008 campaign started it.
    Two — even if it were true, it’d be irrelevant because it was Republican nut jobs who took the ball and ran with it.

    Both Politifact and Factcheck.org have debunked the notion that the Clinton campaign was involved.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/sep/23/donald-trump/hillary-clinton-obama-birther-fact-check/

    http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/

    “But facts have done little to squelch the conspiracy theories that continue to bounce around online.”

  24. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 9, 2016 at 9:44 pm #

    According to Loren Collins, who researched it extensively, birtherism was STARTED at the Free Republic by an anonymous poster (not sure if Loren knows the name or not). Later a chain email circulated, I think attributed to someone who worked at some level for the Clinton campaign.

    Early on, there were Clinton supporters who embraced birtherism. Most of them dropped out when the newspaper announcements of Obama’s birth were found in the Honolulu newspaper archives. Some stayed on, most notably Phil Berg and Mara Zebest.

    Thrifty:
    I don’t think there is anything about birtherism that irritates me more that the “Hillary Clinton started Birtherism” meme.Because:

    One — it isn’t true to begin with.As I recall, a Clinton SUPPORTER unaffiliated with her 2008 campaign started it.
    Two — even if it were true, it’d be irrelevant because it was Republican nut jobs who took the ball and ran with it.

  25. avatar
    Rickey March 10, 2016 at 1:43 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    According to Loren Collins, who researched it extensively, birtherism was STARTED at the Free Republic by an anonymous poster (not sure if Loren knows the name or not). Later a chain email circulated, I think attributed to someone who worked at some level for the Clinton campaign.

    Early on, there were Clinton supporters who embraced birtherism. Most of them dropped out when the newspaper announcements of Obama’s birth were found in the Honolulu newspaper archives. Some stayed on, most notably Phil Berg and Mara Zebest.

    Loren’s essay can be found here.

    http://barackryphal.blogspot.com/2011/06/secret-origin-of-birthers.html

  26. avatar
    Thrifty March 10, 2016 at 11:19 am #

    Well, political rallies are hot, emotionally charged times. Scuffles are bound to break out, especially when polarizing figures like Trump are involved.

    Of all the things about Donald Trump, it’s this “ban all Muslims” thing that bothers me the most. I’m not Muslim. In fact, I don’t think I know any Muslims personally. It just bothers me on so many levels.

    It’s a blatant violation of the 1st amendment. You can’t just say “you cannot practice your religion in the United States”. It’s one of the most fundamental things on which this country was founded. The Founding Fathers knew all about Catholics persecuting Protestants, Protestants persecuting Catholics, and Protestants persecuting other Protestant sects. It was a big thing in European history that seeped over into the New World during colonial times.

    No president could ever get away with this kind of lunacy. Every Supreme Court justice would be against it. If it even made it that far. But it’s the fact that he would even openly propose it and be supported for doing so. Trump’s supporters get all pissy about Obama, saying that he violated the Constitution doing this and that. Then this flagrant violation of the very first amendment is proposed and they’re all like “yay!!!!!”

    I hate it. And I didn’t even get to the part about demonizing an entire ethnic group of people. Hitler did that shit and now his name is a synonym for evil. It also feels a little ironic that the only Trump supporter I ever met in person was Jewish….

  27. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 10, 2016 at 4:36 pm #

    And a link to them is under my Resources menu.

    Rickey: Loren’s essay can be found here.

  28. avatar
    jacko March 10, 2016 at 4:47 pm #

    freedom of speech, I believe, does not apply to the advocating of the killing of others for religious reasons, If I am correct.

    It is true that all muslims are not evil, but the fact that 10% may be radical enough to believe, strongly, in that Sharia Law must be the rule of the land, may bring a dangerous situation into your life.

    if you believe that all muslims are peaceful, may you live a peaceful life

  29. avatar
    J.D. Sue March 10, 2016 at 5:05 pm #

    Thrifty: It also feels a little ironic that the only Trump supporter I ever met in person was Jewish….


    Unfortunately, every group has some idiots. Fortunately for me, I’ve yet to be acquainted with a Trump supporter. I expect most Jews first shuddered when he proposed deporting 11 million people. Then again when he proposed identifying/banning people based on religion. And again and again based on other things he says/supports/proposes/does.

  30. avatar
    Thrifty March 10, 2016 at 6:15 pm #

    Pssst…. Freedom of speech isn’t the only clause in the first amendment.

    In fact, the other part I was referring to would ALSO bar Sharia Law.

    Obviously not *all* Muslims are peaceful. Most are. But treating *all* Muslims as though they were dangerous is a repulsive thing to do.

    jacko:
    freedom of speech, Ibelieve, does not apply to the advocating of the killing of others for religious reasons, If I am correct

  31. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 10, 2016 at 6:23 pm #

    The belief that Sharia Law should be the law of the land (at least in majority Muslim countries) isn’t radical at all, and the 10% number is a monumental underestimate.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

    But it would seem a silly thing to do to look at someone’s religion to guess whether they are evil or not, instead of looking directly at what they say or do.

    jacko: It is true that all muslims are not evil, but the fact that 10% may be radical enough to believe, strongly, in that Sharia Law must be the rule of the land, may bring a dangerous situation into your life.

  32. avatar
    jacko March 10, 2016 at 7:11 pm #

    I consider it similar, in principle, to going to the beach and going into the water where there are 100 fish in the water, and 10 of them are white sharks, of which, 8 of them are not hungry!

    Should I go into the water and swim with those 100 fish or should I stay out of the water?

  33. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 10, 2016 at 8:25 pm #

    It would seem to make more sense to count sharks than to count fish in general.

    jacko: I consider it similar, in principle, to going to the beach and going into the water where there are 100 fish in the water, and 10 of them are white sharks, of which, 8 of them are not hungry!

  34. avatar
    Dave B. March 10, 2016 at 9:27 pm #

    Robert Laity ups the ante:

    “A “Natural Born Citizen” is one born in the US to Parents who are both US Senators themselves- Minor v. Happersett, USSCt. (1875).”

    http://abc27.com/2016/03/10/pennsylvania-judge-hears-challenge-to-cruzs-citizenship/#comment-2562508996

  35. avatar
    jacko March 10, 2016 at 9:45 pm #

    The 10 sharks represent the Muslim people, the not hungry sharks represent the non-compliant Muslim, the 2 hungry sharks represent the radicals, and the 100 fish represent the people as a whole.

    remember that the African States barred the immigration of people from areas with Ebola disease, even though the majority of the people did not have Ebola
    Or made them wait a period of time in isolation to enable verification of disease freedom.

    In fact, that is what Ellis Island was for during the previous years of our immigration policy

  36. avatar
    Reality Check March 10, 2016 at 10:56 pm #

    Laity is the kook who thinks President Obama can be prosecuted under the UCMJ for treason or something.

    Dave B.:
    Robert Laity ups the ante:

    “A “Natural Born Citizen” is one born in the US to Parents who are both US Senators themselves- Minor v. Happersett, USSCt. (1875).”

    http://abc27.com/2016/03/10/pennsylvania-judge-hears-challenge-to-cruzs-citizenship/#comment-2562508996

  37. avatar
    Northland10 March 10, 2016 at 11:23 pm #

    Dave B.:
    Robert Laity ups the ante:

    “A “Natural Born Citizen” is one born in the US to Parents who are both US Senators themselves- Minor v. Happersett, USSCt. (1875).”

    http://abc27.com/2016/03/10/pennsylvania-judge-hears-challenge-to-cruzs-citizenship/#comment-2562508996

    Loved the “go big, or go home” comment.

  38. avatar
    Lupin March 11, 2016 at 2:29 am #

    jacko:
    I consider it similar, in principle, to going to the beach and going into the water where there are 100 fish in the water, and 10 of them are white sharks, of which, 8 of them are not hungry!

    Should I go into the water and swim with those 100 fish or should I stay out of the water?

    This ridiculous argument applies to white american males before one might even consider muslims.

  39. avatar
    Thrifty March 11, 2016 at 1:01 pm #

    Quarantine to stop the spread of a infectious disease makes sense. Health officials monitored the movement of all people based on an actual risk factor (they carried a contagious disease).

    A Muslim carries no risk factor, aside frome the one right wing bigots like you invented.

    Lupin brings up an interesting point, so I ask you this: how many terrorist attacks have happened in the U.S.? Since 2001? And how many mass shootings have happened?

    We could probably tamp down shootings if we seized all the privately owned guns. Although I’m not personally in favor of that, I’d love to hear you tell me why we shouldn’t.

    jacko:
    The 10 sharks represent the Muslim people, the not hungry sharks represent the non-compliant Muslim, the 2 hungry sharks represent the radicals, and the 100 fish represent the people as a whole.

    rememberthat the African States barred the immigration of people from areas with Ebola disease, even though the majority of the people did not have Ebola
    Or made them wait a period of time in isolation to enable verification of disease freedom.

    In fact, that is what Ellis Island was for during the previous years of our immigration policy

  40. avatar
    Joey March 11, 2016 at 1:42 pm #

    jacko:
    The 10 sharks represent the Muslim people, the not hungry sharks represent the non-compliant Muslim, the 2 hungry sharks represent the radicals, and the 100 fish represent the people as a whole.

    rememberthat the African States barred the immigration of people from areas with Ebola disease, even though the majority of the people did not have Ebola
    Or made them wait a period of time in isolation to enable verification of disease freedom.

    In fact, that is what Ellis Island was for during the previous years of our immigration policy

    I’m ok with using the same system as Jacko proposes for radical Muslims for white male right wing extremists with white supremacist philosophies. The Obama admnistration needs to infiltrate all white nationalist organizations to separate the small percentage who are violence-prone crazies from the pack.
    For example: Christopher Sean Harper-Mercer shot and killed eight fellow students and a teacher at Umpqua Community College. Authorities described Harper-Mercer, who recently had moved to Oregon from Southern California, as a “hate-filled” individual with anti-religion and white supremacist leanings who had long struggled with mental health issues. He owned 14 weapons, all purchased legally. Harper-Mercer, 26, killled himself after exchanging gunfire with deputies.

    Dylann Storm Roof was charged with nine counts of murder and three counts of attempted murder in an attack that killed nine people at a historic black church in Charleston, S.C.

    12 killed, 3 injured in Washington, D.C. Aaron Alexis, a Navy contractor and former Navy enlisted man, shoots and kills 12 people and engages police in a running firefight through the sprawling Washington Navy Yard. He is shot and killed by authorities.

    Authorities later reveal that he had an extensive Navy disciplinary record that included several unauthorized absences from duty, instances of insubordination and disorderly conduct, one instance of being absent without leave, and several failed inspections. He was still able to get a security clearance and purchase a rifle.

    Wade Michael Page fatally shoots six people at a Sikh temple before he is shot by a police officer. Page, an Army veteran who was a “psychological operations specialist,” committed suicide after he was wounded.

    Page was a member of a white supremacist band called End Apathy and his views led federal officials to treat the shooting as an act of domestic terrorism. He had been administratively discharged from the Army in 1998 after being demoted in rank.

  41. avatar
    bob March 11, 2016 at 1:56 pm #

    Elliot’s Penn. lawsuit was denied.

  42. avatar
    jacko March 11, 2016 at 6:58 pm #

    If you can find another religion that believes that it is ok to kill people of different religions, and teach that in the programs, yes, it applies to all of any color who practice that religion.

    I guess It is not racist that way right

  43. avatar
    Arthur March 11, 2016 at 10:00 pm #

    bob:
    Elliot’s Penn. lawsuit was denied.

    I

    From the article, “Commonwealth Court Judge Dan Pellegrini ruled Thursday that common law precedent and statutory history maintain that a natural born citizen includes any person born to an American citizen, regardless of where.”

  44. avatar
    Rickey March 11, 2016 at 10:36 pm #

    jacko:
    If you can find another religion that believes that it is ok to kill people of different religions, and teach that in the programs,yes, it applies to allof any color who practice that religion.

    You must be referring to Christianity, with its history of executing heretics, burning “witches” at the stake, the Inquisition, religious wars, justification of slavery, etc.

    I guess It is not racist that way right

    If you have to deny that you are a racist, you probably are a racist.

  45. avatar
    jacko March 12, 2016 at 1:56 am #

    Rickey: If you have to deny that you are a racist, you probably are a racist

    Now that is a ridiculous statement.

    If I deny it I am a racist, and if I don’t deny it I am a racist.

    And you wonder why posters don’t like to post things of various blogs

    Who, on this blog, would subscribe to the
    content of that post?

    Or is everyone , not of your beliefs , racist whether you are or are not

    Does any one actually believe that if you deny being a racist, that you must be a racist, or are you all under the influence of something or the other,

  46. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) March 12, 2016 at 3:16 am #

    jacko: If you can find another religion that believes that it is ok to kill people of different religions

    You mean like Pastor Kevin Swanson saying gays should be killed?

  47. avatar
    Scientist March 12, 2016 at 8:54 am #

    jacko: If you’re as old as you say you are, then it’s a safe bet you will die of cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer’s or the like and not from an attack from Islamic radicals. I know that will disappoint you, but the facts are clear.

  48. avatar
    Joey March 12, 2016 at 1:38 pm #

    jacko:
    If you can find another religion that believes that it is ok to kill people of different religions, and teach that in the programs,yes, it applies to allof any color who practice that religion.

    I guess It is not racist that wayright

    Persons who practice the religion called Judaism have been slaughtered by practiotioners of the Christian faith since Jews were originally blamed for killing Christ. Six million Jews were annihilated during World War II alone. Practitioners of indigenous, tribal faiths have been killed and also forcibly converted to Christianity in Africa, the Americas and Asia since the 1400s and the beginning of colonialism.
    The Old Testament: Book of Numbers 24:17
    “I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.”
    Book of Numbers 25:17
    “Vex the Midianites, and smite them:”
    Deuteronomy 7:2
    “And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them:”

  49. avatar
    Joey March 12, 2016 at 2:15 pm #

    The following European Wars of religion were fought between Roman Catholics and Protestants in the decades following the Protestant Reformation
    The German Peasants’ War (1524–1525)
    The battle of Kappel in Switzerland (1531)
    The Schmalkaldic War (1546–1547) in the Holy Roman Empire
    The Eighty Years’ War (1568–1648) in the Low Countries
    The French Wars of Religion (1562–1598)
    The Thirty Years’ War (1618–1648), affecting the Holy Roman Empire including Habsburg Austria and Bohemia, France, Denmark and Sweden
    The Wars of the Three Kingdoms (1639–1651), affecting England, Scotland and Ireland
    Scottish Reformation and Civil Wars
    English Reformation and Civil War
    Irish Confederate Wars and the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland

  50. avatar
    Thrifty March 12, 2016 at 2:23 pm #

    jacko:
    If you can find another religion that believes that it is ok to kill people of different religions, and teach that in the programs,yes, it applies to allof any color who practice that religion.

    Others answered this question better than I could.

    You’re dodging my questions though. Why shouldn’t we seize all the privately owned guns? Don’t say 2nd amendment, because it’s obvious that the Constitution means nothing to you.

    I guess It is not racist that way right

    I never used the term “racist”.

  51. avatar
    Notorial Dissent March 13, 2016 at 12:31 am #

    Jerko sweetums, Christianity has been slaughtering fellow Christians in wholesale numbers almost from the get go, for not saying the catechism correctly, for not believing in the correct number of graces, for not using the correct bible, for using latin, for not using latin, for not making the sign of the cross properly, for not celebrating Easter at the correct time, to name just a few odd items. So the next time you feel the urge to say something really really stupid, DON’T.

  52. avatar
    CRJ March 13, 2016 at 11:59 am #

    RE:
    Obama said:

    [And the tone of that politics — which I certainly have not contributed to — I don’t think that I was the one to prompt questions about my birth certificate, for example. I don’t remember saying, hey, why don’t you ask me about that. (Laughter.) Or why don’t you question whether I’m American, or whether I’m loyal, or whether I have America’s best interests at heart — those aren’t things that were prompted by any actions of mine.

    And so what you’re seeing within the Republican Party is, to some degree, all those efforts over a course of time creating an environment where somebody like a Donald Trump can thrive. He’s just doing more of what has been done for the last seven and a half years.]

    CRJ

    Americans have tried very hard to have a Civil Discourse for seven and a half years. However, Civil has been rejected and unheard as Witnessed in the culmination of #SCOTUS 12-5276 and 14-9396 NOT dismissed due to lack of Standing, but called frivolous. Basically a slam order of frivolous upon the qualifications for the Office of President found in the Constitution. Nothing could be further removed of Truth by the importance of the Office and near total control of an entire Branch of the three in Government.

    Is it a SURPRISE that Americans simply wanting the Constitution upheld, seeing case after case of CIVIL APPEAL and PETITION dismissed would turn to an escalation of Tactic? Wasn’t that also the Case with an example of the Boston Tea Party in the Revolutionary Days prior the Revolution?
    Taxation without Representation is akin or not far removed from an ineligible Candidate in the Office of President as Defacto President spending 10 Trillion that is part of National Debt and expecting it be paid back.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party

    Let’s not forget Helpless Americans as far as the Standing Requirement are not helpless in Elections and they come around very quickly in the Political System of the U.S.

    When Justice fails over and over and over an exhaustion of remedy takes place. The bloodfilled battlefields and cemetaries are supposed to be adequate reminders of the importance of a Standard of Law.

    A very Bloody Revolution was fought for Independence but more than that; the U.S. Supreme Law – The Constitution of the United States.

    Taking advantage of the process of Time it takes to get through the Courts is not a win of Justice or recovery of the Cover Up of Obama’s ineligibility. Its a disgrace of cover up and delay the hurt generating to anger has stirred. Certainly. Delay is a legal tactic, but is far short of a Resolution or Solution.

    Americans haven’t forgotten Obama is not a [[natural born Citizen] ie. Born in the U.S. to Citizen Parents ]] and they haven’t forgot Mr. Donald Trump multi Billionaire stood up and took on the Birther Mantle demanding after three years Obama out up his long form birth certificate.

    Taking 3 years to do that is indicative of a stall tactic as it could have been done 2 weeks after Obama declared in ’08. Americans may be patient with someone, but they are not stupid.

    Obama and ALL the Cover Up politicians on both sides of the isle have engaged in either, supported McCain thus were afraid of being called racist if objecting to Obama’s eligibility, or, who simply lacked standing and knew it, has not been forgotten by Americans in 7+ years.

    Isn’t it interesting a 22 year old attack was reinstigated on religious liberty cordinating and orchestrated Sep 30, 2015 just prior the U.S. Supreme Court’s Oct 5th, 2015 denial of the Motion for forma pauperis upon the Petitioner of Judy v. Obama 14-9396 challenging Obama’s ineligibility as a qualified [natural born Citizen]?

    @LeeHDavidson @sltrib RELIGIOUS Persecution Attacks Politician Faith #Mormons #LDS [just before Oct5] #SCOTUS 14-9396 https://t.co/Ln4Hu9zLwe

    https://twitter.com/CodyRobertJudy/status/709025820652613637

    http://www.sltrib.com/home/2859739-155/mormons-ex-mormons-ran-colorful-presidential-campaigns?page=1#PhotoSwipe1457854371453

    The Civil Appeal process has limits and when it’s exhausted with injustice without hearing the result in the general population will be a draft of a solution which we see as an anti establishment movements happening in America.

    It’s impossible to denie, unless you are delusional, the [concepts of usurpation] which are easily identified as BULLY tactics are unleashing in politics with Americans saying in their participation and support of the huge rallies we are seeing “You want Bully.. I’ll give you Bully!”

    Blood is shortly around the corner to the disgraceful obstruction of Justice that exhaust the patients of Americans.

    For Obama to deliriously make claims he’s somehow removed from it , actually including the reason of his Constitutional Eligibility of his birth certificate as a ridiculing hot branding iron in the eye of America , shows a deliberate extension of his understanding that is fully aware of his gross negligence and abandonment of Law enjoining the violent altercations as reasonably and subtly prevoked.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2016 at 12:13 pm #

    There is no right to review by the Supreme Court.

    CRJ: The Civil Appeal process has limits and when it’s exhausted with injustice without hearing the result in the general population will be a draft of a solution which we see as an anti establishment movements happening in America.

  54. avatar
    Rickey March 13, 2016 at 1:08 pm #

    CRJ:

    Taking 3 years to do that is indicative of a stall tactic as it could have been done 2 weeks after Obama declared in ’08. Americans may be patient with someone, but they are not stupid.

    Americans as a whole may not be stupid, but you are.

    Obama produced his birth certificate in the summer of 2008. Birthers immediately called it a forgery. Obama then produced his long-form birth certificate in 2011. Birthers immediately called it a forgery. No previous candidate for president had ever released his birth certificate.

    Why aren’t you demanding that Donald Trump to release a certified copy of his birth certificate?

  55. avatar
    Joey March 13, 2016 at 3:41 pm #

    Some facts for CRJ: Barack Obama announced his candidacy on February 10, 2007.
    Barack Obama posted his birth certificate on the Internet on June 12, 2008.
    The first civil suit challenging Obama’s eligibility, Berg v Obama was filed on August 21, 2008.
    Federal judge R. Barclay Surrick dismissed that lawsuit as “frivolous and not worthy of discussion” on October 24, 2008. All subsequent appeals failed.
    The state of Hawaii issued its first statement of verification for the Obama birth certificate on October 31, 2008.
    Barack Obama won the popular vote on November 4, 2008.

  56. avatar
    bob March 13, 2016 at 6:27 pm #

    CRJ:
    #SCOTUS 12-5276 and 14-9396 NOT dismissed due to lack of Standing, but called frivolous.

    Frivolous is as frivolous does.

    Is it a SURPRISE that Americans simply wanting the Constitution upheld, seeing case after case of CIVIL APPEAL and PETITION dismissed

    Dismissing frivolous lawsuit is, in part, how the U.S. Constitution is upheld, notwithstanding the wasted efforts of birthers like Judy.

    Let’s not forget Helpless Americans as far as the Standing Requirement

    Judy can thank the recently departed Scalia for his key role shutting the courthouse doors to citizens.

    The bloodfilled battlefields and cemetaries are supposed to be adequate reminders of the importance of a Standard of Law.

    Yet it is Judy who refuses to acknowledge the law.

    Americans haven’t forgotten Obama is not a [[natural born Citizen] ie. Born in the U.S. to Citizen Parents ]

    Only birthers like Judy believe in the imaginary two-citizen parent “rule.” A “rule” that has been repeatedly and expressly rejected by the courts. Of course, Judy has already demonstrated his inability to abide by the law.

    Isn’t it interesting a 22 year old attack was reinstigated on religious liberty cordinating and orchestrated Sep 30, 2015 just prior the U.S. Supreme Court’s Oct 5th, 2015 denial of the Motion for forma pauperis upon the Petitioner of Judy v. Obama 14-9396 challenging Obama’s ineligibility as a qualified [natural born Citizen]?

    Nothing interesting about the timing, as Judy too dull to realize that SCOTUS dumped his motion at the first conference following its traditional summer recess.

    What is far more interesting is that Judy considers him to be persecuted when a newspaper factually recounts how he terrorized thousands at a religious event.

    Blood is shortly around the corner to the disgraceful obstruction of Justice that exhaust the patients of Americans.

    Judy has learned nothing in life, as thinly veiled threats of violence are especially disturbing when uttered by someone who has already been convicted for acts that threatened others.

  57. avatar
    jacko March 13, 2016 at 8:48 pm #

    Joey:
    Some facts for CRJ: Barack Obama announced his candidacy on February 10, 2007.
    Barack Obama posted his birth certificate on the Internet on June 12, 2008.
    The first civil suit challenging Obama’s eligibility, Berg v Obama was filed on August 21, 2008.
    Federal judge R. Barclay Surrick dismissed that lawsuit as “frivolous and not worthy of discussion” on October 24, 2008. All subsequent appeals failed.
    The state of Hawaii issued its first statement of verification for the Obama birth certificate on October 31, 2008.
    Barack Obama won the popular vote on November 4, 2008.

    b
    there was nobirth certificate issued on June 12, 2008, as it was a COLB, (certificate) and not a birth certificate!

    HDOH has never verified that the original record is true and accurate, they have verified that the information supplied from the LFBC and was requested to be verified was indeed on the birth certificate.

    The problem lies in the fact that the LFBC differs from the birth record that was recorded.

    The government considers the birth certificate as different that the birth record as the information contained on the birth certificate may be different than the birth record

  58. avatar
    jacko March 13, 2016 at 9:37 pm #

    You’re dodging my questions though. Why shouldn’t we seize all the privately owned guns? Don’t say 2nd amendment, because it’s obvious that the Constitution means nothing to you.
    .
    Seizing private property is permitted under the Constitution, so it would appear to be an allowable thing to do, however it also requires compensation to paid to the owner of the property.

    And , then the owner of the property can buy another weapon, that must be seized to meet the standards, and the gun makers would be happy to sell all of their guns to the government.

    then the government must register, store, and dispose of the weapons after seizure , resulting in more expense than the expense of allowing the keeping of guns.

    I suppose you might think that proper if you don’t have to pay for the work done by the government.

    Why in your world would you want the government to control the possession of private property by citizens of the country

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2016 at 9:44 pm #

    If boggles the mind how a birther can say that a certification on paper is not a certificate. In no state of the union is what Obama presented in 2008 (it was ISSUED in 2007, by the way) not a certificate. If you go to your state vital records office and order your birth certificate, in most every state you will get something like what Barack Obama released in 2008. I wrote about this 7 years ago this week:

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/03/when-is-a-certification-a-certificate/

    In the second comment copied below, are you saying that a photocopy is different from an original? If so, it’s a distinction without relevance. If you’re saying something else, I can’t imagine what it is.

    In the United States, jurisdictions issue birth certificates. Most today are computer-generated like the one Obama released in 2008. In some cases they are certified photocopies like the one Obama released in 2011. That’s all the kinds of birth certificates there are in this country.

    If you say that for some reason Obama’s birth certificate is insufficient, then you are saying that all birth certificates in the hands of the US population are insufficient. You could also claim the world is flag to equal effect.

    jacko: there was nobirth certificate issued on June 12, 2008, as it was a COLB, (certificate) and not a birth certificate!

    The problem lies in the fact that the LFBC differs from the birth record that was recorded.

  60. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2016 at 9:55 pm #

    We control possession of certain substances. The prisons are full of people who have had such substances seized. They are incarcerated at great expense. So why heroine and not guns. Plastic explosives that do not contain a detection agent are among the things that it is unlawful to manufacture, import or possess.

    jacko: Why in your world would you want the government to control the possession of private property by citizens of the country

  61. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2016 at 10:05 pm #

    The 3rd verification that the State of Hawaii provided in the Taitz v. Mississippi Democrat Party lawsuit states:

    “The information contained in the ‘Certificate of Live Birth’ published at http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate and reviewed by me on the date of this verification … matches the information contained in the original Certificate of Live Birth for Barack Hussein Obama, II on file with the State of Hawaii Department of Health.”

    All of the information on the LFBC matches the original.

    I do not think that there is any more to say on this topic, and as you are already banned, I bid you goodbye.

    jacko:

    HDOH has never verified that the original record is true and accurate, they have verified that the information supplied from the LFBC and was requested to be verified was indeed on thebirth certificate.

  62. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 13, 2016 at 10:13 pm #

    Some media coverage of President Obama’s remark, “Where else could a boy born in Calgary run for president of the United States?” suggests that Obama is “going birther” on Ted Cruz. However, what Obama said is correct and in no way suggests that Cruz is ineligible; hence, I reject the attempt as nothing but the usual smear. See:

    http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/03/11/obama-goes-birther-on-cruz-to-impress-canadian-pm-315600

    http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-trolls-ted-cruz-with-birther-shot-for-being-born-canada

  63. avatar
    y_p_w March 13, 2016 at 10:51 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    In the United States, jurisdictions issue birth certificates. Most today are computer-generated like the one Obama released in 2008. In some cases they are certified photocopies like the one Obama released in 2011. That’s all the kinds of birth certificates there are in this country.

    Technically a few would be scanned and then printed on demand, but that is of course similar enough to modern photocopying. I’ve seen a few that looked like they might have come from microform.

    I don’t know about how prevalent it is, but I’ve seen a few modern examples of certified copy forms that still need to be filled in with a typewriter or even by hand. Massachusetts still has a system where cities are the primary jurisdiction to record births, and the files are kept by the city of birth and the city of parental residence around the time of birth. The state can also generate a certified record of the birth. However, a lot of small cities don’t go through the trouble of setting up a printing system and just have blank forms to fill in.

  64. avatar
    Keith March 14, 2016 at 1:06 am #

    Scientist:
    jacko:If you’re as old as you say you are, then it’s a safe bet you will die of cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer’s or the like and not from an attack from Islamic radicals.I know that will disappoint you, but the facts are clear.

    Doesn’t matter how old he is. He is still far more likely to die from any of those things that he is from Islamic radicals.

  65. avatar
    Notorial Dissent March 14, 2016 at 1:10 am #

    The usual progression is that the mother/or father fills out the parts of the affidavit that pertains to them, the doctor then fills out the parts that pertain to the birth, the hospital, and him, and then it may be recorded in the hospital files before being sent on to the local registrar who also records it, and then on to possibly the city/state however it is set up, and then USUALLY on to the state registrar for final recording. What the state, or whoever, is saying when they issue what we call a birth certificate is that the state is certifying that it is a true and accurate copy of the information they have on file. It is assumed that the parent and doctor who signed the original affidavit were telling the truth at the time it was signed. The State is NOT under ANY obligation to prove or verify ANYTHING on the affidavit, that information is presumed, by law, true and correct unless shown otherwise. Unless there is real proof that will stand up in court that something on the affidavit was not true or correct, which has to be proven in court then the Birth certificate is a true, complete, and correct certification, and that is pretty much how it works in all 50 states and the world. So again, Jacko’s complaints don’t stand.

  66. avatar
    Keith March 14, 2016 at 1:34 am #

    jacko: HDOH has never verified that the original record is true and accurate, they have verified that the information supplied from the LFBC and was requested to be verified was indeed on the birth certificate.

    It is precisely the INFORMATION that is the ONLY interesting part of the birth certificate. Hawai’i was asked to verify the information on the birth certificate, specifically item by item, and in total as a whole document – and they did so unequivocally.

    It is not the title on the top of the page that makes a birth certificate a birth certificate. It doesn’t matter if the State puts the word ‘Certification’ or ‘Certificate’ at the top of the page. That is just silly games you play to make yourself sound ‘deep’ – it is more than silly, it is juvenile and insulting to the intelligence of anyone who reads your tripe.

    What makes a birth certificate document a birth certificate document is INFORMATION about a birth event with an accompanying certification by the authorized custodian of the INFORMATION that the INFORMATION on the document is a true and accurate copy of the INFORMATION on the original birth record held in their archives.

    It is the INFORMATION that is being certified, NOT the layout of the form, not the header on the top of the document, not the method the custodian uses to create the document, not the font used on the form, not the security paper or lack of security paper or any other security feature, not the technology used to produce the paper document. It is the INFORMATION and nothing but the INFORMATION.

    The problem lies in the fact that the LFBC differs from the birth record that was recorded.

    FACT you say? Really? What specific piece of INFORMATION is, in FACT, different “from the birth record that was recorded”?

    You are making a specific and very serious claim against the State of Hawai’i Department of Health here. Remember that they have verified each and every DATA ITEM on the published Birth Certificates multiple times.

    What specific evidence do you have that the INFORMATION on the published copies of the Birth Certificate is incorrect? Exactly which DATA ITEM is incorrect?

    Put up or shut up.

  67. avatar
    Keith March 14, 2016 at 1:45 am #

    jacko: HDOH has never verified that the original record is true and accurate,

    Oh, on second read, I see what you did there.

    The state doesn’t ‘verify’ that the ” the original record is true and accurate”. That is done by the attending physician or witness and the mother.

    The State then takes responsibility for that INFORMATION that is recorded on that original record.

    Can you understand this fact? Those present at the birth CERTIFY that the information is true. What the State does then is keep that original document safe from damage and unauthorized access and then CERTIFY that any copies they make contain true and accurate copies of the INFORMATION that was supplied to them.

    Your silly, juvenile word games that this means that somehow the INFORMATION was lies in the first place or was altered after the State took responsibility for keeping it safe are, without evidence to the contrary, just pathetic excuses for you hear your self think about ways to make people disrespect you and and your ridiculous ‘arguments’.

    I repeat:

    What specific evidence do you have that the INFORMATION on the published copies of the Birth Certificate is incorrect? Exactly which DATA ITEM is incorrect?

    Put up or shut up.

  68. avatar
    Rickey March 14, 2016 at 11:17 am #

    jacko: b
    there was nobirth certificate issued on June 12, 2008, as it was a COLB, (certificate) and not a birth certificate!

    I know that you have been banned again, but this gives me the opportunity to point out that you are an ignoramus.

    I have three copies of my New York birth certificate, issued decades apart. They all look a little different, but they all contain the same information, which is actually less information than appears on Obama’s COLB. They contain neither the name of the hospital where I was born nor the name of the doctor who delivered me. Yet they were sufficient to get me a Social Security Number, a driver’s license, to enlist in the U.S. Navy, and to obtain a U.S. passport. They look similar to this birth certificate:

    https://github.com/m0smith/topoged/wiki/Entering-a-Simple-Birth-Certificate

    It’s been nearly eight years since Obama released his COLB. He is still in office, and he will remain in office until the end of his term next January. You have lost, and it’s time for you to get over it.

  69. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2016 at 11:42 am #

    I wonder what birthers will do once Obama leaves office. I guess they can fight forever in the hopes that they can prove him ineligible and push the “magic reset button”.

    Can’t do birther stuff with Hillary Clinton. Hillary and her mother were born in Chicago, and her father was born in Scranton PA. Pretty much natural born by even the strictest of birther standards. Of course there are bound to be conspiracy theories attached to any president, but it’s just not the same…

    While looking up personal facts about Hillary Clinton, I noticed that she’s older than I thought she was. 68 years old. Man….

  70. avatar
    Nancy R Owens March 14, 2016 at 1:14 pm #

    I have the (attached) hand that helped forged these documents plus the TRUE history behind the Medellin Cartel who enabled this to become a reality. None of these “investigators” will ever have the amount of “firsthand” knowledge that I have when it comes to these forgeries.

    There is only one expert here and it is me.

    Notorial Dissent:
    I have at least four times the amount of stuff sitting behind my desk, plus three filing cabinets clear full, all of which is of more value and use than that collection of non-evidence nonsense.

  71. avatar
    Daniel March 14, 2016 at 1:26 pm #

    Nobody cares Nancy

  72. avatar
    Nancy R Owens March 14, 2016 at 1:58 pm #

    And, yet you follow this blog and others like it, I’m sure. You do care. You just wish I wasn’t dead center in all of this, don’t you?

    Mike ZulloMoore is not the one to bring the truth to light. Nor, is he an expert. You don’t become an expert by sitting on your ass in a safe, well-lit office for forty years waiting for the forger, which is me, to hand-deliver the facts to you.

    I forged Obama’s birth certificates in 1985.

    Daniel:
    Nobody cares Nancy

  73. avatar
    Rickey March 14, 2016 at 2:13 pm #

    Thrifty:

    While looking up personal facts about Hillary Clinton, I noticed that she’s older than I thought she was.68 years old.Man….

    And Trump is older. He will be 70 in June.

  74. avatar
    Daniel March 14, 2016 at 2:46 pm #

    I follow this blog, for the entertainment value, of laughing at birthers. You simply post here, and clutter up things. That doesn’t mean anyone is here to follow you.

    You’re not dead center in all of this. You’re not even close to center. You’re not even really on the periphery. You’re just a nutter who desperately wants attention. Again, nobody cares.

  75. avatar
    Nancy R Owens March 14, 2016 at 3:02 pm #

    You wish. I forged the birth certificates. Again, you can’t sit in an office for forty years and wait for Cuba to gain complete control of their future against ours, and claim to be some sort of an “expert.” It makes you a block.

    Daniel:
    I follow this blog, for the entertainment value, of laughing at birthers. You simply post here, and clutter up things. That doesn’t mean anyone is here to follow you.

    You’re not dead center in all of this. You’re not even close to center. You’re not even really on the periphery. You’re just a nutter who desperately wants attention. Again, nobody cares.

  76. avatar
    Scientist March 14, 2016 at 3:08 pm #

    Nancy R Owens: You wish. I forged the birth certificates.

    Sorry, Nancy, but it was me. Stop trying to steal the credit. You forged the Mona Lisa and i never tried to steal the credit for that, so stay on your turf and I will stay on mine, OK?

  77. avatar
    Nancy R Owens March 14, 2016 at 3:13 pm #

    I forged the birth certificates. Maybe one day Mike Volin will pull that heroine needle out of his arm and conduct a proper investigation.

    Scientist: Sorry, Nancy, but it was me. Stop trying to steal the credit. You forged the Mona Lisa and i never tried to steal the credit for that, so stay on your turf and I will stay on mine, OK?

  78. avatar
    Thrifty March 14, 2016 at 3:13 pm #

    It strikes me as so odd, that in a time when many people retire to wind down their lives, these two are doing something as grandiose as trying to become president of the United States.

    Also kinda jarring since our current president is younger. Merely middle aged. Started at 48 and ending at 55

    Rickey: And Trump is older. He will be 70 in June.

  79. avatar
    Scientist March 14, 2016 at 3:18 pm #

    Nancy R Owens:
    I forged the birth certificates. Maybe one day Mike Volin will pull that heroine needle out of his arm and conduct a proper investigation.

    No, it was I who forged it, based on the information I obtained from Hawai’i. Now, I must ask you to cease and desist. No one believes you anyway. whereas my credibility is impeccable.

  80. avatar
    Daniel March 14, 2016 at 3:22 pm #

    Nancy R Owens: heroine needle out of his arm

    You mean like a Supergirl needle?

  81. avatar
    Nancy R Owens March 14, 2016 at 3:25 pm #

    And, you are? As you can see, unlike you, I have no problem using my real name.

    Scientist: No, it was I who forged it, based on the information I obtained from Hawai’i.Now, I must ask you to cease and desist.No one believes you anyway. whereas my credibility is impeccable.

  82. avatar
    Scientist March 14, 2016 at 3:27 pm #

    Nancy R Owens: As you can see, unlike you, I have no problem using my real name.

    Something real forgers never do.

  83. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater March 14, 2016 at 3:55 pm #

    Nancy R Owens:
    And, you are? As you can see, unlike you, I have no problem using my real name.

    Really? Is that why you have aliases like “Jones” “Barger” etc?

  84. avatar
    Nancy R Owens March 14, 2016 at 4:38 pm #

    Jones is a married name. I was told that hubby’s father is Sonny Barger which I do believe is very possible since it was Barger who captured Escobar in 1990 and I could tell these two were on familiar terms. I’ve said all of this before.

    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater: Really?Is that why you have aliases like “Jones” “Barger” etc?

  85. avatar
    Daniel March 14, 2016 at 7:05 pm #

    Nancy R Owens: unlike you, I have no problem using my real name.

    Why do you think that’s in some way significant?

  86. avatar
    Joey March 14, 2016 at 8:34 pm #

    Thrifty:
    I wonder what birthers will do once Obama leaves office.I guess they can fight forever in the hopes that they can prove him ineligible and push the “magic reset button”.

    Can’t do birther stuff with Hillary Clinton.Hillary and her mother were born in Chicago, and her father was born in Scranton PA.Pretty much natural born by even the strictest of birther standards.Of course there are bound to be conspiracy theories attached to any president, but it’s just not the same…

    While looking up personal facts about Hillary Clinton, I noticed that she’s older than I thought she was.68 years old.Man….

    There is a new birther thread (3/10/16) at freerepublic.com where birtherism originated. The topic is “what if Obama was really born in Kenya.” The chronic, pathlogical birthers want Obama prosecuted after he leaves office (by “president” Trump) “to correct the historical record” and they want every law and executive order that he signed to be invalidated. Oh, and they want him deported as an illegal alien too.

  87. avatar
    Joey March 14, 2016 at 8:59 pm #

    jacko: b
    there was nobirth certificate issued on June 12, 2008, as it was a COLB, (certificate) and not a birth certificate!

    HDOH has never verified that the original record is true and accurate, they have verified that the information supplied from the LFBC and was requested to be verified was indeed on thebirth certificate.

    The problem lies in the fact that the LFBC differs from the birth record that was recorded.

    The government considers thebirth certificate as different that the birth record as the information contained on the birth certificate may be different than the birth record

    If releasing a copy of a Michigan Certificate of Live Birth was good enough for Mitt Romney: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-campaign-romney-birth-certificate-idUSBRE84S1GF20120529?irpc=932, then releasing a copy of a Hawaii Certficate of Live Birth should be good enough for Barack Obama.
    As others have already pointed out, it is the INFORMATION relative to date of birth and place of birth that it was good to have officially verified by the state for judges and state Secretaries of State.

  88. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 14, 2016 at 9:34 pm #

    That article was interesting for its coverage of the George Romney eligibility controversy. Funny how it seems to be the Republican candidates who have eligibility problems.

    Joey: If releasing a copy of a Michigan Certificate of Live Birth was good enough for Mitt Romney: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-campaign-romney-birth-certificate-idUSBRE84S1GF20120529?irpc=932, then releasing a copy of a Hawaii Certficate of Live Birth should be good enough for Barack Obama.

  89. avatar
    Lupin March 15, 2016 at 4:00 am #

    Another thread derailed by that crazy woman. Is there really a point to letting her continue to do time and time gain with her inanities (or repeated troll attacks)?

  90. avatar
    Sam the Centipede March 15, 2016 at 7:37 am #

    Daniel: Why do you think that’s in some way significant?

    Perhaps Nancy has a Certificate of Idiocy in that name and wants to be able to prove to everybody that she is in fact not just a certifiable idiot but a certified one?

    I am amazed that she hasn’t yet claimed to have murdered Barack Obama on the orders of Muammur Gaddafi and former Pope Benedict and that the man masquerading as President is actually Mike Zullo wearing heavy make-up.

    Lupin is correct though (as ever!); Nancy clearly has problems separating reality and her fantasy super-hero life, and I am not convinced that having a soapbox here helps her mental state.

  91. avatar
    Rickey March 15, 2016 at 1:13 pm #

    Thrifty:
    It strikes me as so odd, that in a time when many people retire to wind down their lives, these two are doing something as grandiose as trying to become president of the United States.

    Also kinda jarring since our current president is younger.Merely middle aged.Started at 48 and ending at 55

    But it’s not unprecedented. Reagan was 69 when he ran in 1980. Dole was 73 when he ran in 1996, and McCain was 72 when he ran in 2008.

  92. avatar
    Nancy R Owens March 15, 2016 at 1:15 pm #

    A man who was supposed to be the Pope, yes. Call Mark McDaniel for confirmation. I’ve had several conversations with him about my this. It’s interesting to see that the Pope is shedding all of his protections after all of these years, isn’t it?

    What part of assassination do you not get? What part of conspiracy do you not understand?

    It’s not my fault your simple-minded little world doesn’t get this. The day that they admit Pablo Escobar built his Hispanic New World Order Embassy on American soil, “Napoles,” is the day you people might start to understand what the Bush and Reagan administrations have allowed to play out.

    The Bushes allowed Pablo to imprison Americans at will and kept their mouth shut so that they could rule over the cocaine fields with Pablo.

    You would think that with Cuba now freely invading our country, someone would stand up and say, “Ah ha.”

    But not you. It’s just too much to ask.

    Trump2016!

    Sam the Centipede: Perhaps Nancy has a Certificate of Idiocy in that name and wants to be able to prove to everybody that she is in fact not just a certifiable idiot but a certified one?

    I am amazed that she hasn’t yet claimed to have murdered Barack Obama on the orders of Muammur Gaddafi and former Pope Benedict and that the man masquerading as President is actually Mike Zullo wearing heavy make-up.

    Lupin is correct though (as ever!); Nancy clearly has problems separating reality and her fantasy super-hero life, and I am not convinced that having a soapbox here helps her mental state.

  93. avatar
    Rickey March 15, 2016 at 1:25 pm #

    Sam the Centipede:

    I am amazed that she hasn’t yet claimed to have murdered Barack Obama on the orders of Muammur Gaddafi and former Pope Benedict and that the man masquerading as President is actually Mike Zullo wearing heavy make-up.

    She also claims that Walter Mondale was murdered in 1983, which means that he was a zombie when he ran for President in 1984 and for the Senate in 2002.

    Does the Constitution prohibit a zombie from serving as President?

  94. avatar
    Thrifty March 15, 2016 at 2:00 pm #

    No not at all. I guess since I’m turning 35 in 12 days, that these ages are just incomprehensibly old to me. But then again there are supercentenarians who are old enough to be these peoples’ parents.

    Then I spend my days at the office with people in their mid 20s. And my sister who is 6 years older than me now (as of 5 weeks ago) has an adult child. And my best friend is 47. Invariably, I am always calculating the birth years of people who are now turning 18 and 21, then thinking back to what I was doing in that year. I’m so utterly caught in between groups that make me feel really young and those who make me feel old.

    Rickey: But it’s not unprecedented. Reagan was 69 when he ran in 1980. Dole was 73 when he ran in 1996, and McCain was 72 when he ran in 2008.

  95. avatar
    Joey March 15, 2016 at 2:01 pm #

    Rickey: She also claims that Walter Mondale was murdered in 1983, which means that he was a zombie when he ran for President in 1984 and for the Senate in 2002.

    Does the Constitution prohibit a zombie from serving as President?

    The zombie would need to present a “Certificate of Alive Again Birth” demonstrating birth, death and rebirth within the United States.

  96. avatar
    Thrifty March 15, 2016 at 2:04 pm #

    No. Much like the rules of basketball do not prohibit a dog from playing basketball. Nor do they prohibit the opposing team from killing and eating the dog.

    Rickey:
    Does the Constitution prohibit a zombie from serving as President?

  97. avatar
    Crustacean March 15, 2016 at 2:33 pm #

    Unless the dog had a clear path to the basket when it was devoured. That would be a flagrant 2 violation, for sure!

    Thrifty: Nor do they prohibit the opposing team from killing and eating the dog.

  98. avatar
    Nancy R Owens March 15, 2016 at 2:50 pm #

    Why are you avoiding the issue of the Pope?
    It’s because if I have someone say that, “Yes, she shot what was supposed to have been the Pope,” it opens the door to all of the other assassinations that I have claimed.

    You’re not going to let that happen, now are you?

    I’m ready to testify when ya’ll are.

    Rickey: She also claims that Walter Mondale was murdered in 1983, which means that he was a zombie when he ran for President in 1984 and for the Senate in 2002.

    Does the Constitution prohibit a zombie from serving as President?

  99. avatar
    Scientist March 15, 2016 at 3:33 pm #

    Nancy R Owens: it opens the door to all of the other assassinations that I have claimed.

    We can all claim assassinations. I have it on the best of authority, none other than Mick Jagger himself:

    I shouted out,
    “Who killed the Kennedys?”
    When after all
    It was you and me
    Let me please introduce myself
    I’m a man of wealth and taste

  100. avatar
    Nancy R Owens March 15, 2016 at 4:07 pm #

    Yeah, make a joke of it all.

    You’ll wake up one day when you’re staring down at one of the Cuban mosh pits of Florida wondering if that is your child, brother, mother, sister, etc. decaying at the bottom while you’re Hero/Zeros like the Bushes turn the other cheek for cocaine gold.

    Now that Cuba has free reign of Florida, it’s going to happen more and more.

    The Bushes have the best of both worlds. They get rich from the cocaine and they get rich using your tax dollars to combat a fake drug war and have idiots to cheer them on thinking these opportunistic jerks are the greatest.

    Suckers.

    Again, I’m ready to testify to what I know when ya’ll are.

    Trump2016!

    Scientist: We can all claim assassinations.I have it on the best of authority, none other than Mick Jagger himself:

    I shouted out,
    “Who killed the Kennedys?”
    When after all
    It was you and me
    Let me please introduce myself
    I’m a man of wealth and taste

  101. avatar
    Crustacean March 15, 2016 at 4:55 pm #

    Alright already!! I’ll spill the beans. Here’s what I know:

    1. There ain’t no $30 bill with Bill Graham’s picture on it! (h/t Mojo Nixon)

    2. If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, just let ’em go, because, man, they’re gone (h/t Jack Handey).

    3. The longest word in the sentence “I have the best words” is the word “words” (h/t John Oliver).

    4. There is no such person as Mike Zullomoore (h/t every rational fiber in my body)

    Nancy R Owens: I’m ready to testify to what I know when ya’ll are.

  102. avatar
    Rickey March 16, 2016 at 3:10 am #

    Thrifty:
    No not at all.I guess since I’m turning 35 in 12 days, that these ages are just incomprehensibly old to me.But then again there are supercentenarians who are old enough to be these peoples’ parents.

    Then I spend my days at the office with people in their mid 20s.And my sister who is 6 years older than me now (as of 5 weeks ago) has an adult child.And my best friend is 47. Invariably, I am always calculating the birth years of people who are now turning 18 and 21, then thinking back to what I was doing in that year.I’m so utterly caught in between groups that make me feel really young and those who make me feel old.

    I hear you. I’m going to turn 68 next month, and the last thing I would want is a 24/7 high-pressure job. But then anyone who wants to be president has to be cut from different cloth.

  103. avatar
    Sluffy1 March 16, 2016 at 7:37 am #

    Anybody know where I can get a forged BC and how much it costs?

    Crustacean: Alright already!!

    Alright Already … the best reply to quiet a pestering child.
    I hadn’t heard, read or used that phrase in decades until I used it in a reply post a few days ago… to childlike pestering..

    Coincidence? I think not.

  104. avatar
    Northland10 March 16, 2016 at 6:30 pm #

    Quiet day today. I started wondering if my feed reader was working.

  105. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 16, 2016 at 8:55 pm #

    Get used to it.

    Northland10: Quiet day today. I started wondering if my feed reader was working.

  106. avatar
    The Magic M (not logged in) March 17, 2016 at 5:21 am #

    Dave B.: Not real strong.

    Already his introduction would’ve received a solid “F” in logic.

    The easy way to see that this cannot be true is to ask a simple
    question. Suppose that an election board instead ruled that Ted Cruz was not a
    natural born citizen and thus declined to allow him on the Presidential ballot:
    would any reasonable person deny that Ted Cruz could challenge such an adverse
    decision in the courts? Clearly not, which necessarily means that the issue cannot
    be a political question exempt from judicial review. An issue cannot be a political
    question for one side but not the other.

    Precisely because the issue is reserved to Congress, Cruz could have a court overturn the board’s decision – not because the court rules that he is a natural-born citizen but because it rules the board overstepped its authority. *duh*

    What the esteemed law professor argues is that a court cannot rule an entity has overstepped its authority when it’s not within the court’s jurisdiction to rule on the merits of the overstepping decision – this is such a crappy argument that he’d prolly kick any student out personally who’d dare make such an argument in his class.

  107. avatar
    Scientist March 17, 2016 at 10:48 am #

    Elhague’s arguments on the 20th Amendment are very shaky. No one says Congress is free to ignore the restrictions on eligibility, but why are they barred from interpreting how to apply it, when a term like “natural born citizen” is clearly not cut and dried (or why are there so many variant opinions?). If you say Congress cannot make their own determination of whether the President-elect is qualified, then they are reduced to simply adding up the column of electoral votes for each candidate, without any latitude or leeway. Such a function hardly seems worthy of the trouble it took to amend the Constitution. Moreover, such a restricted role flies in the face of the fact that Congress actually considered a challenge to the Ohio votes in 2004 and would have considered one in Florida in 2000 had a Senator signed the protest that quite a few House members signed.

    Anyway, the brief was moot because the birthers, who supposedly consider presidential eligibility the most important issue in the known universe, couldn’t manage to file their protest to Cruz within the allotted deadline, which was the grounds on which their case was dismissed.

  108. avatar
    Dave B. March 17, 2016 at 11:21 am #

    He gets into the “considered as” mess:
    “Second, even on its face, this statute did not say children born abroad to U.S. citizens were (with emphasis) natural born citizens. The statute instead carefully said they “shall be considered as” natural born citizens, suggesting that Congress thought they were not natural born citizens but should be treated as such.”
    Which, when you read the whole statute, is so dumb it hurts. I guess Congress didn’t think ANYBODY the act applied to would really be a citizen. Just…considered as. Then there’s his riff on McCain:
    “John McCain was both (a) born in a U.S. territory (the Panama Canal Zone) and (b) born to parents who were both U.S. soldiers serving their nation abroad.”
    Neither his (a) condition nor his (b) condition was sufficient to make someone a US citizen at all in 1936. It’s obvious from the legislative history that Congress didn’t consider children born to members of the US armed forces to be natural born citizens on the basis of that service. There’s one act of Congress after another modifying the requisite conditions for transmission of citizenship to make them more amenable to members of the armed forces serving abroad. If the common law principle applied to them, that would never have been necessary.
    And “both U.S. soldiers”?

  109. avatar
    Nancy R Owens March 17, 2016 at 11:39 am #

    It is cut and dried and we all know it. Most of us have been taught it since grade school. Citizens of a democracy elect leaders. Citizens of monarchies are given their leaders without choice. A citizen of a monarchy or a dictatorship like Cruz’s Cuba have leaders who are monarchs or dictators.

    To put Cruz on the American throne would be the equivalent of putting a King on the American throne just like you have today with my half brother, Allen Owens.

    The elite keep Cruz and other Cubans in office NOT for the safety of America which they couldn’t give a rat’s ass about. They keep them in there as insurance for their cocaine kingdoms.

    I worked for Pablo Escobar who was allied with the Castro family, some of whom I met in the early eighties in South Florida. I know what’s here and I know what’s coming from Rubio and Cruz’s Cuba.

    Mosh pits to toss English-speaking citizens into and lots of them because now they have open access to this country.

    For those who don’t know, a mosh pit is an open pit which is approximately 6x6x8. It is filled mainly with rain or swamp water and bodies are tossed into it. Then they, the Escobars and their cohorts with the blessings of politicians like the Bush and Reagan families, take bags of lime, open them, and add them to the water so that they American bodies will decay and there will be no evidence left once the lime takes effect.

    The blacks are brainless twits if they think that there will be an America for them once the Hispanic New World Order’s plans come to full fruition in another fifty years or so. Perhaps sooner.

    Scientist:
    Elhague’s arguments on the 20th Amendment are very shaky.No one says Congress is free to ignore the restrictions on eligibility, but why are they barred from interpreting how to apply it, when a term like “natural born citizen” is clearly not cut and dried (or why are there so many variant opinions?).If you say Congress cannot make their own determination of whether the President-elect is qualified, then they are reduced to simply adding up the column of electoral votes for each candidate, without any latitude or leeway.Such a function hardly seems worthy of the trouble it took to amend the Constitution.Moreover, such a restricted role flies in the face of the fact that Congress actually considered a challenge to the Ohio votes in 2004 and would have considered one in Florida in 2000 had a Senator signed the protest that quite a few House members signed.

    Anyway, the brief was moot because the birthers, who supposedly consider presidential eligibility the most important issue in the known universe, couldn’t manage to file theirprotest to Cruz within the allotted deadline, which was the grounds on which their case was dismissed.

  110. avatar
    Dave B. March 17, 2016 at 12:00 pm #

    He did get the John Jay thing right, though. I never did get that “John Jay’s own chldren would’ve been excluded” argument.

  111. avatar
    Thrifty March 17, 2016 at 3:22 pm #

    I don’t know a polite way to say this, but I’ve gotta say it. I really hate that Twitter plugin on this page.

    First off it seems to repeat the same tweets over and over and over and over again.

    Secondly, I just hate Twitter itself. Immensely.

    Lastly…. every tweet seems to be about 80% annotations (@ symbol and # hashtag).

  112. avatar
    Notorial Dissent March 17, 2016 at 3:45 pm #

    I think that Elhague got it wrong in a number of places, firstly that a state court even has the jurisdiction to make such a determination right off the bat. Secondly the 20th argument worst of all, since he should have known what it actually says, that does not speak of an understanding or even comprehension of the amendment. Thirdly that the electoral college or even Congress HAS to seat anyone if they so choose. Tradition is that the electoral college has to vote as they were elected to, no legal way of enforcing that. If Congress does not accept the election, I would suspect they could by their own authority choose someone that was acceptable to them, hasn’t ever happened but nothing to say it couldn’t, and all above and beyond judicial supervision or interference. So all in all a waste of effort and paper.

  113. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy March 17, 2016 at 6:21 pm #

    There are state laws against so-called “faithless electors” and the Supreme Court has ruled such laws constitutional. In two states faithless votes are invalidated. There have been 157 faithless electors in history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector

    Notorial Dissent: Tradition is that the electoral college has to vote as they were elected to, no legal way of enforcing that.

  114. avatar
    Joey March 17, 2016 at 9:07 pm #

    Nancy R Owens:
    The blacks are brainless twits if they think that there will be an America for them once the Hispanic New World Order’s plans come to full fruition in another fifty years or so. Perhaps sooner.

    In 2012 Barack Obama got 71% of the Latino vote, 73% of the Asian American vote and 69% of the Jewish vote. Those three voting blocs were key to Obama’s reelection. I suspect that Hillary Clinton will do just as well, if not better.

  115. avatar
    Arthur March 17, 2016 at 9:30 pm #

    Thrifty:
    I don’t know a polite way to say this, but I’ve gotta say it.I really hate that Twitter plugin on this page.

    First off it seems to repeat the same tweets over and over and over and over again.

    Secondly, I just hate Twitter itself.Immensely.

    Lastly…. every tweet seems to be about 80% annotations (@ symbol and # hashtag).

    Totally agree. It’s awful, and in mobile you have to scroll through it to get to the comments.

  116. avatar
    Keith March 17, 2016 at 9:53 pm #

    Joey: In 2012 Barack Obama got 71% of the Latino vote, 73% of the Asian American vote and 69% of the Jewish vote. Those three voting blocs were key to Obama’s reelection. I suspect that Hillary Clinton will do just as well, if not better.

    I keep telling folks in Australia that putative candidate Trump would likely not get 5% of the Latino, Black, or Jewish vote. He might get a big slice of the white redneck vote and about 35% of the rusted on Republican vote – and you just can’t win the general with those kind of numbers.

  117. avatar
    Northland10 March 17, 2016 at 11:12 pm #

    For various reasons, I figured I should order a new birth certificate, my only other copy being one from the county registrar in 1974. I had expected something similar to Romney’s certificate, though with my information, not his.

    It arrived today and I was rather surprised. Though still entirely printed from the database, not from any original form, they layout was similar to what you would see on the original form, including lines/boxes and those notches on the left side lines (I hesitate to use the term “long form” since the original is actually smaller than Obamas). They included more data than normally seen on other Michigan COLBs, such as the hospital, the time of birth, mother’s residence at time of birth and a empty box for twin information. It did not have everything that was on the original (such as no doctor’s or parent’s signatures).

    The part that would have the birthers freaking, if I were a darker man with a muslimy name, was the Registrar’s signature. It is listed as (name altered):

    \\S\\ Lady R. VanderSomething

    (yes, the last name starts with Vander. What do you expect? It’s west Michigan).

    It also does not have a separately added raised seal but the state seal and the seal of the division of vital records are embossed. As one would expect, there are a plethora of security features. No simple green basket-weave on this one.