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Birthers and Islamic extremists

I’m sure we were all deeply disturbed by the murder of 50 people by a self-proclaimed supporter of ISIS in Orlando early Sunday. The President has ordered US flags to be flown at half staff until sunset on Thursday. An article on the Web documented 85 Islamic terrorist plots against the United States since 9/11, most of which were thwarted. Acts of violence inspired by radical Islam are a real problem.

What we are seeing is individuals recruited to be terrorists, and it seems that this is often accomplished through propaganda on the Internet. There will always be some people susceptible to this kind of marketing, and ISIL/ISIS seems to be very professional at it.

As I was thinking about terrorist recruiting in the US, I was reminded of other Internet recruiting. This Friday marks the one-year anniversary of the racially-motivated shootings in Charleston, SC, where 9 people were killed at a prayer service at the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church. The murder suspect, Dylann Roof, attributed his change of heart towards black people to the web site of the Council of Conservative Citizens that has extensive content regarding black people murdering white people. The Charleston shooting was labeled a hate crime rather than a terrorist incident. I personally lean towards terrorism because Roof’s web site suggested that he hoped to trigger a race war.

As for birthers, they too are subjected to  a steady stream of hate propaganda against President Obama, and are persuaded to believe things that aren’t true. In the US, the level of threats directed at the President is limited by law. Perhaps that is why we haven’t seen birther assassination attempts (or maybe there have been some thwarted by the Secret Service in their early stages).

I know that we all tend to believe what we read when it aligns with what we already believe, and to reject things that run counter to my beliefs. I am just thankful that my tendencies are to believe good things about people, that kindness is effective, and that cooperation where possible is better than confrontation. I believe that people like Donald Trump, who bolster ISIS claims that the US is at war with Islam, do harm to our safety by playing into the hands of ISIS with his militant rhetoric.

Trump ISIS

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66 Responses to Birthers and Islamic extremists

  1. avatar
    Curious George June 13, 2016 at 12:15 pm #

    “I believe that people like Donald Trump, who bolster ISIS claims that the US is at war with Islam, do harm to our safety by playing into the hands of ISIS with his militant rhetoric.”

    On the other side of the coin, Hillary is advocating more gun control. I believe that making it more difficult for citizens to buy firearms for self defense during a time of increased terrorist attacks, would do harm to our safety and result in more victims.

    Out of approximately 350 people at the Orlando nightclub, there was apparently only one in attendance with a firearm. According to reports, he was an off duty police officer. I’ll wager that the “Plus” nightclub was advertised as a “gun free zone.” My expectation is that terrorist attacks will continue at “gun free zones” because they offer the most low risk targets.

    This is a very sad day for America.

  2. avatar
    Curious George June 13, 2016 at 1:11 pm #

    Yes, just as I suspected, the Pulse nightclub, by Florida state law is a “gun free zone.” So here is a list of gun free zone, low risk targets, brought to you by the state of Florida. Amazing!

    Title XLVI – Crimes, Chapter 790, Weapons & Firearms, item #12

    12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
    1. Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;

    2. Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;

    3. Any detention facility, prison, or jail;

    4. Any courthouse;

    5. Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;

    6. Any polling place;

    7. Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;

    8. Any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;

    9. Any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;

    10. Any elementary or secondary school facility or administration building;

    11. Any career center;

    12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;

    13. Any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;

    14. The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or

    15. Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

    (b) A person licensed under this section shall not be prohibited from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for lawful purposes.

    (c) This section does not modify the terms or conditions of s. 790.251(7).

    (d) Any person who knowingly and willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

  3. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 13, 2016 at 1:34 pm #

    Curious George: Yes, just as I suspected, the Pulse nightclub, by Florida state law is a “gun free zone.” So here is a list of gun free zone, low risk targets, brought to you by the state of Florida. Amazing!

    According to the stories I have read Mateen was confronted by the off duty, uniformed and armed police officer working security who was quickly joined by two nearby on duty officers and he managed to drive them away because he had them outgunned. Not sure how much better inexperienced civilians armed with concealable handguns would have done.

    Frankly I’d like to know why it took three hours for the police to go in. Current tactics are for the first officers on the scene to quickly engage the “active shooter” rather than giving him time to take more hostages, find hiding places, etc.

  4. avatar
    bob June 13, 2016 at 3:18 pm #

    As for birthers, they too are subjected to a steady stream of hate propaganda against President Obama, and are persuaded to believe things that aren’t true.

    Birther Report posted its first article in a week. Guess the topic.

  5. avatar
    tek June 13, 2016 at 4:48 pm #

    Oh yeah. Lets have 300 people – many having consumed alcohol – without active-shooter training firing away.

    That’s gonna end well.

    sigh

  6. avatar
    Thrifty June 13, 2016 at 5:23 pm #

    Trump being the sack of garbage that he is, used the attack to double down on his attacks against Muslims and reiterate his pledge to keep them all out of the country.

    Which besides being a horrible thing to say, wouldn’t have stopped this incident in the first place. Omar Mateen was an American citizen born in New York City. Maybe Donald Trump just wants to round up all the Muslims and throw them in internment camps or something.

    2016 is such a scary year. When I think about the thought of a Trump presidency, it scares me. Not really on a personal level. I think as a white male, natural born American citizen, with a good education and a clean record, I would be okay. I think that if this monster were president, I would be embarrassed for my country. I didn’t really much like George W. Bush, but I thought that at the end of the day he was still a decent human being who made some bad governing decisions that I disagreed with. Donald Trump is just a horrible person, through and through. And it makes me so sad to think my countrymen would put him in charge. I’ve always felt proud of the United States…. but a United States that would put this bully in charge… I can’t even bear the thought of such a place.

  7. avatar
    Reality Check June 13, 2016 at 5:25 pm #

    I am convinced the only way that we might get the NRA to back off its moronic any person can own any gun stance is if several gunman enter an NRA meeting and mow down a hundred or more. I am obviously not advocating that happen but I am trying to think of any set of circumstances that might change these perverted ammosexuals’ minds. Of course they would immediately scream false flag.

  8. avatar
    roadburner June 13, 2016 at 7:09 pm #

    alcohol and firearms is a bad mix at the best of times so a bar being a gun free zone makes a lot of sense.

    my first boss gave me an example when a guy who was limping badly left the shop one afternoon (I worked for a traditional gunmaker).

    seems the year before the guy was out in the countryside with friends and a few flasks of booze, and when he got back into the landrover with his shotgun, he had forgotten to clear it and still had 2 in the pipes….and promptly blew half his foot through the floor

    firearms and motor vehicles = 0% alcohol

  9. avatar
    Reality Check June 13, 2016 at 7:24 pm #

    Again I am not advocating that anyone die but it seems to be a statistical reality in the US that mass shootings occur with alarming frequency and with increasingly deadly weapons. The approach of the NRA and the conservatives seems to be more weapons for everyone. We wouldn’t arm folks with hand grenades but yet an AR 15 is a more efficient weapon at killing lots of people than a hand grenade and we cannot prevent a known kook from having one. The killing potential is only limited by the amount of ammunition one can carry.

    In a country of over 300,000,000 people and especially with hate being pushed from the highest levels both internally and externally we are never going to run out of shooters. The only answer is to separate the shooters from the tools which enable them to commit mass murder. Other countries while not having perfect records are more successful than we are at doing that. The NRA is pestilence on decent society and the sooner we realize that the better.

  10. avatar
    Bernard Sussman June 13, 2016 at 7:29 pm #

    I don’t know if I’d blame the Orlando massacre on “radical” Islam. Very conventional and ordinary Islam condemns homosexuality and insists on the death penalty for its practitioners. Pretty much the same as in the Bible. Back in Reagan’s time, when Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell were riding high, would we have condemned all of Christianity for the occasional loony murder of a homosexual?

    Ordinary Muslims may be taught that homosexuality is a deadly sin, but I’d bet that the vast majority have no intention of raising a hand against strangers, or even acquaintances, in that lifestyle. The occasional zealot isn’t the product of a radical form of the religion but of some inner characteristic or conflict that brings this teaching into obsessive focus.

  11. avatar
    J.D. Sue June 13, 2016 at 8:53 pm #

    Curious George: Hillary is advocating more gun control. I believe that making it more difficult for citizens to buy firearms for self defense during a time of increased terrorist attacks, would do harm to our safety and result in more victims.


    I concur. And I believe her advocacy could cost us the election. And then we would have Trump, and certainly more victims.

  12. avatar
    john June 13, 2016 at 9:47 pm #

    3 things that need to be done:

    1. Institute a temporary Muslim ban from countries that have terrorist problems

    2. Catagorize AR-15 and other similar weapons as weapons of mass destruction. Just like people can’t have Bazookas or Nukes, people can’t own AR-15s.

    3. Make it a crime for people to read, access or possess terrorist propaganda. Just like people can’t have child pornography, they need to add terrorist propaganda to the list.

  13. avatar
    john June 13, 2016 at 9:53 pm #

    CarlOrcas: According to the stories I have read Mateen was confronted by the off duty, uniformed and armed police officer working security who was quickly joined by two nearby on duty officers and he managed to drive them away because he had them outgunned. Not sure how much better inexperienced civilians armed with concealable handguns would have done.

    Frankly I’d like to know why it took three hours for the police to go in. Current tactics are for the first officers on the scene to quickly engage the “active shooter” rather than giving him time to take more hostages, find hiding places, etc.

    Mateen didn’t have body armor on. You think those cops should have been able to bring him down. The cops are supposed to be trained to act with deadly force and accuracy during times of great distress. The same thing happen in Columbine. The school cop engaged the student killers in gunfire but apparently was a bad shot. The student kills retreated in the school where they shot everyone.

  14. avatar
    Curious George June 13, 2016 at 10:38 pm #

    President Obama: [The shooter used a] ‘Glock Which Had A Lot of Clips in It’

    Watch out when politicians, be they Republicans or be they Democrats, advocate new laws about a subject that exposes their ignorance.

    The Austrian Glock, semi-automatic handgun, is currently used by more law enforcement agencies in America than any other handgun. The Glock handgun is reliable, accurate, and relatively inexpensive to purchase compared to other handguns. It also uses a “magazine” not clips. And, the Glock handgun can only have one “magazine” inserted into the grip at a time.

    I agree, with JD Sue, firearm purchases made by the American public, for the past 10 months, have set new records. With a new focus on firearm control by the Secretary Clinton and President Obama, this strategy is a loser in November.

  15. avatar
    Keith June 13, 2016 at 11:06 pm #

    Bernard Sussman: I don’t know if I’d blame the Orlando massacre on “radical” Islam. Very conventional and ordinary Islam condemns homosexuality and insists on the death penalty for its practitioners. Pretty much the same as in the Bible.

    I cannot speak about what the Koran says about homosexuality or homosexuals, but the Bible contains absolutely NO condemnation of LOVING homosexual relationships what-so-ever. In fact is quite poetic and explicit in its praise of such relationships.

    For a discussion of this, see: Religious Tolerance: Same-sex relationships in the Bible

    What the Bible condemns is the practice of Temple Prostitution, both heterosexual and homosexual as practiced by the indigenous Canaanite pagans; and misplaced lustful sexual abandon, both heterosexual and homosexual. Every case of homosexual condemnation that I have ever found is referring to this practices either directly or by implication.

    For a discussion of this see: Huffington Post: The Bible Does Not Condemn Homosexuality.

    Temple Prostitution was not for sexual gratification, it was a religious rite that reenacted the supernatural marriage of the deities and thus extended the benefits (good harvests, good fortune in general, etc) to mankind. What is being objected to is not the homosexual act itself, but the practice of pagan religious rites, the rejection, condemnation and suppression occupied much of the history of the Hebrews as the monotheistic Jewish religion became established.

  16. avatar
    Keith June 13, 2016 at 11:09 pm #

    john: 2. Catagorize AR-15 and other similar weapons as weapons of mass destruction. Just like people can’t have Bazookas or Nukes, people can’t own AR-15s.

    What happened? Did you miss out on your NRA check this month or something?

  17. avatar
    Thrifty June 14, 2016 at 12:01 am #

    And this would have had exactly what effect on the shooter exactly? He was an American citizen.

    john:
    3 things that need to be done:

    1.Institute a temporary Muslim ban from countries that have terrorist problems

  18. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 14, 2016 at 12:55 am #

    john: Mateen didn’t have body armor on. You think those cops should have been able to bring him down. The cops are supposed to be trained to act with deadly force and accuracy during times of great distress.

    First, no amount of training prepares you to face that kind of firepower. Assuming the officers were carrying semi-automatic handguns they were also badly outgunned. Each of their handguns probably had clips with 14 rounds loaded and two more on their belt which have to be removed from pouches and inserted into the weapon. Mateen had 30 round clips and, according to reports, had two of them taped together so he could quickly insert the new clip. How many more of those he may have had we don’t know at this time but clearly enough to slaughter and wound more than 100 people.

    Second, the AR-15 fires a round that can penetrate the body armor that field officers normally wear. You don’t expose yourself unnecessarily to that kind of fire.

    And once Mateen took hostages the officers had to pull back.

  19. avatar
    trader jack June 14, 2016 at 3:33 am #

    contrary to most people I was not shocked by the action, as I expected it. When it happens in Europe it will happen here.
    France has very strong gun laws and they have no effect on the people who want to use guns.

    And AR -15 is a simple hunting rifle, single or semi-automatic, and fires a light bullet.

    It is hardly an assault rifle.

    I believe , rightly or wrongly, as the information is unconfirmed, that there was one entrance and the shooter, being well trained, stood in the entrance an shot the people as they tried to exit through the sole exit, then proceed in an shot at will. Only way to stop him is with a gun as people tend to run from shooters

    when the man is pointing a weapon at your friend should the cop shoot him before or after he shoots your friend.

    That is the trouble with the police, then don’t want to shoot someone before he shoots a civilian, but will shoot him if he is aiming at an officer.

    Don’t blame the police for their actions as the public does not want police shooting anyone

    Expect more of this stuff, and arm yourself , because no one will protect your if you are threatened in this manner.
    I have been in this type of action. But that was 60 years ago

  20. avatar
    Krosis June 14, 2016 at 5:27 am #

    The Bible homosexuality issue is contentious; there’re scholars who consider parts of it to condemn all same-sex copulation, period, and not all of them are fundy Christians (Bart Ehrman, for instance, even through he thinks that Paul’s view of sex was different from the modern one). As an atheist, who considers the Bible to be of mostly historical interest, I personally think that these scholars are right in regards to the original intentions of the writers.

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 14, 2016 at 6:11 am #

    That would be illegal.

    trader jack: I believe , rightly or wrongly, as the information is unconfirmed, that there was one entrance

  22. avatar
    roadburner June 14, 2016 at 7:45 am #

    trader jack:

    And AR -15 is a simple hunting rifle, single or semi-automatic, and fires a light bullet.

    it wasn’t whet Eugene stoner had in mind when he drew up the original design, and neither is .223/5.56 a particually good hunting round.

    and personally, i’ve never come across a dedicated hunting rifle that needed a 30 round magazine.

  23. avatar
    roadburner June 14, 2016 at 7:58 am #

    CarlOrcas:

    Second, the AR-15 fires a round that can penetrate the body armor that field officers normally wear. You don’t expose yourself unnecessarily to that kind of fire.

    a couple of years back law enforcement floated the idea of banning Green tip AP 5.56 ammunition for sale to the public.

    naturally the tinfoil hatters instantly said it was a government attempt to ban all AR ammo (a theory promoted by certain people holding a lot of 5.56 and an interest in seeing the Price skyrocket – which it did).

    the ban never happened so the public have the right to buy AP ammo under the 2nd ammendment

    thanks NRA

  24. avatar
    Scientist June 14, 2016 at 8:00 am #

    It’s now coming out that the shooter was himself a closeted gay man, who had frequented the very club he shot up on numerous occasions, as well as frequenting gay dating sites. It’s possible that the primary motive here was self-hatred and that any religious/political motivations were secondary and his pledge of allegiance to ISIS was to cover his sick act in a patina of wider relevance.

    That would throw a bit of a monkey wrench in the political back-and-forth I would think.

  25. avatar
    Rickey June 14, 2016 at 10:55 am #

    trader jack:

    France has very strong gun laws and they have no effect on the people who want to use guns.

    Australia has very strong gun laws – much stronger than the United States – and hasn’t had a mass shooting in twenty years.

    I believe , rightly or wrongly, as the information is unconfirmed, that there was one entrance and the shooter, being well trained, stood in the entrance an shot the people as they tried to exit through the sole exit, then proceed in an shot at will. Only way to stop him is with a gun as people tend to run from shooters

    Wrongly.

    The club has an emergency exit, a back door, and it was possible to get out through the patio.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/orlando-shooting/

  26. avatar
    Janny E Grice June 14, 2016 at 11:06 am #

    So, will Trump ban closeted Muslims now?

  27. avatar
    Lupin June 14, 2016 at 11:20 am #

    trader jack: France has very strong gun laws and they have no effect on the people who want to use guns.

    I wouldn’t say that, really.

    In 2008, we ranked #2 in Europe (EU) in terms of how many people own guns. Figures indicate between 18 and 20 million of guns are in private hands or about 32% of the population.

    It is yet another US right-wing myth that France has “strong” guns laws.

  28. avatar
    Lupin June 14, 2016 at 11:22 am #

    john: Catagorize AR-15 and other similar weapons as weapons of mass destruction. Just like people can’t have Bazookas or Nukes, people can’t own AR-15s.

    You magnificent lefty pinko commie b*st*rd. I knew you’d come to our side eventually.

  29. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 14, 2016 at 12:06 pm #

    Janny E Grice:
    So, will Trump ban closeted Muslims now?

    I predict he will cut to the chase and……….ban closets.

  30. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 14, 2016 at 12:12 pm #

    roadburner: thanks NRA

    I suspect we will shortly see stories about gun/ammo sales skyrocketing again as gun nuts succumb to the NRA’s siren song.

  31. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 14, 2016 at 12:14 pm #

    roadburner: and personally, i’ve never come across a dedicated hunting rifle that needed a 30 round magazine.

    Depends on what you are hunting.

  32. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 14, 2016 at 12:32 pm #

    trader jack: when the man is pointing a weapon at your friend should the cop shoot him before or after he shoots your friend.

    That is the trouble with the police, then don’t want to shoot someone before he shoots a civilian, but will shoot him if he is aiming at an officer.

    Don’t blame the police for their actions as the public does not want police shooting anyone

    Words almost fail me….but I’ll try.

    That is frighteningly ill informed and offensive nonsense…..commonly referred to as bull*hit.

  33. avatar
    Rickey June 14, 2016 at 12:55 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I suspect we will shortly see stories about gun/ammo sales skyrocketing again as gun nuts succumb to the NRA’s siren song.

    It’s already happened. I saw a story yesterday where a gun shop owner said that he was selling ten AR-15s an hour.

  34. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 14, 2016 at 1:11 pm #

    Rickey: It’s already happened. I saw a story yesterday where a gun shop owner said that he was selling ten AR-15s an hour.

    What do they sell for? $900 or so? Amazing.

  35. avatar
    roadburner June 14, 2016 at 1:31 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Depends on what you are hunting.

    man, if you need 30 rounds to bring down what you’re shooting at, whatever it is i don’t want to even be in the same county as it! 😀

  36. avatar
    trader jack June 14, 2016 at 1:49 pm #

    In the forthcoming tragedies it will be necessary for the public to rein in the criminals as the police can not be everywhere as the public doesn’t want to pay for the protection necessary.

    the emphasis on gun control will simply mean that the terrorist will use other methods of attack which might be even deadlier.

    Note that body bombs are just as evil and used for the same purposes.

  37. avatar
    Curious George June 14, 2016 at 3:59 pm #

    CarlOrcas: What do they sell for? $900 or so? Amazing.

    Anywhere from $600 on up. A high quality Colt marked “Law Enforcement and Government Use Only ” M-4 will sometimes fetch $1,500+.

  38. avatar
    Curious George June 14, 2016 at 4:05 pm #

    CarlOrcas: I suspect we will shortly see stories about gun/ammo sales skyrocketing again as gun nuts succumb to the NRA’s siren song.

    That’s been happening for almost the past 10 months of record setting sales. People are very concerned. We are seeing more violent crimes happening locally.

  39. avatar
    Rickey June 14, 2016 at 4:10 pm #

    CarlOrcas: What do they sell for? $900 or so? Amazing.

    I have no idea – I’ve never owned a gun, never wanted to own a gun, and never needed a gun.

    In the late 1970s I once had a Walther PPK in my possession for a few weeks, but I didn’t own it. It had been stolen and the insurance company I was working for had paid the claim and became the owner. It eventually was recovered by the Phoenix Police Department, and I was assigned to claim it and try to find a buyer for it. That was a surreal experience because I didn’t have a concealed permit, so I had to walk through the lobby and back to my car with the pistol in my hand. I held it by the barrel. Then I had to leave it on my front seat while I drove home with it. The police officer who gave it to me after I signed for it did check to make sure that it wasn’t loaded.

    After a few weeks I found a buyer, a man who was an acquaintance. I don’t recall going any paperwork for the sale, other than having the buyer sign something for the insurance company.

  40. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 14, 2016 at 11:13 pm #

    trader jack: In the forthcoming tragedies,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Paranoid much, Jack?

  41. avatar
    Keith June 15, 2016 at 5:05 am #

    Democratic Party supporting Website “PoliticusUSA” weighs in on Trump’s ego-ridden self-congratulatory celebration of the Orlando shootings with Clinton’s response:

    Hillary Clinton Leaves Republicans In Ruins After Dropping A Birther Bomb On Trump

    Extract from Clinton’s speech:
    What Donald Trump is saying is shameful. It is disrespectful to the people who were killed and wounded and their families. And it is yet more evidence that he is temperamentally unfit and totally unqualified to be commander in chief.

    Of course, he is the leader of the birther movement which spread the lie that President Obama wasn’t born in the United States. I guess he had to be reminded that Hawaii is part of the United States.

    This is a man who claimed that a distinguished federal judge, born and raised in Indiana can’t do his job because of his “Mexican heritage.” I guess he has to be reminded that Indiana is in in the United States.

    PoliticusUSA’s commentary:

    The birthers remain wildly unpopular. The mere mention of birtherism strikes and image of crazed conspiracy theorists to the general electorate. Throughout her remarks, former Sec. Clinton was on a mission to join the Republican Party and Trump’s extremism at the hip.

    Trump’s birtherism is the ten-ton mega bomb of the 2016 presidential campaign. In the Republican primary his history of racism towards President Obama was an asset, but in the general election, Trump’s birther history is going to cost him with voters in swing states all over the country.

  42. avatar
    Greenfinches June 15, 2016 at 6:38 am #

    J.D. Sue: Hillary is advocating more gun control. I believe that making it more difficult for citizens to buy firearms for self defense during a time of increased terrorist attacks, would do harm to our safety and result in more victims.

    Only in America perhaps? In the UK despite the horrors of terrorism in Northern Ireland over several decades, there was never real pressure to widen access to guns. What good would more guns do?

    And how many terrorist attacks are there in any event – Orlando appears to be a hate crime.

  43. avatar
    J.D. Sue June 15, 2016 at 8:34 am #

    Greenfinches: Only in America perhaps?


    Right now, I am mostly concerned that Hillary will lose and Trump will win over this–I think the gun control issue is largely why we have so many Republicans in office.

  44. avatar
    Rickey June 15, 2016 at 12:44 pm #

    J.D. Sue: —
    Right now, I am mostly concerned that Hillary will lose and Trump will win over this–I think the gun control issue is largely why we have so many Republicans in office.

    I’m not worried about Trump, as long as he keeps saying things like this:

    https://mic.com/articles/146286/donald-trump-feels-the-backlash-after-accusing-u-s-troops-in-iraq-of-embezzling-money#.fhgMmbNLX

  45. avatar
    Thrifty June 15, 2016 at 2:27 pm #

    Ooh she’s really going for the jugular.

    I can’t wait to see these two go at it in the debates this Fall.

    Keith:
    Democratic Party supporting Website “PoliticusUSA” weighs in on Trump’s ego-ridden self-congratulatory celebration of the Orlando shootings with Clinton’s response:

    *snipped for brevity*

  46. avatar
    CRJ June 16, 2016 at 5:15 am #

    Keith: PoliticusUSA’s commentary:

    The birthers remain wildly unpopular. The mere mention of birtherism strikes and image of crazed conspiracy theorists to the general electorate. Throughout her remarks, former Sec. Clinton was on a mission to join the Republican Party and Trump’s extremism at the hip.

    Trump’s birtherism is the ten-ton mega bomb of the 2016 presidential campaign. In the Republican primary his history of racism towards President Obama was an asset, but in the general election, Trump’s birther history is going to cost him with voters in swing states all over the country.

    Really? I wonder about the GROUPTHINK around here sometimes.

    While Obama and Clinton run willy-nilly assertions about ‘Gun Control, using the Examples of San Bernardino and Orlando, forgetting both obtained their guns legally under the Law, they are indirectly selling the Birther Staple on the menu: OFFICE OF PRESIDENT natural Born Citizen ie. Born in the U.S. to Citizen Parents

    It’s what’s for Dinner!

    How long before the connections made that the idea of United States American Parents is a “good idea” and Obama’s history doesn’t fit in with being Qualified?

    Ohhh.. Wait! That’s happening Now!

    Far from Obama and Clinton’s sale of a restricted or even an abolished 2nd Amendment as Obama’s video backed up by the Rolling Stone article advocated Repealing the 2nd Amendment
    [Article http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-its-time-to-repeal-the-second-amendment-right-bear-arms-20160613#ixzz4BeoShSfp ]

    is the sale being made for the qualification requirements for the Office of President- Born in the U.S. to Citizen Parents.

    Consider the Head line:

    American-born children of immigrants proving fruitful recruiting ground for jihad in U.S.

    http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/13/second-generation-americans-proving-most-fruitful-/

    While immigrants draw much of the attention, it’s their children who are proving to be [the most fruitful recruiting ground for radical jihad in the U.S., accounting for at least half of the deadly attacks over the past decade.

    “Historically, the ‘high stress’ generation for American immigrants has been second generation,” said former CIA Director Michael V. Hayden. “Mom and Pop can rely on the culture of where they came from. Their grandchildren will be (more or less) thoroughly American. The generation in between, though, is anchored neither in the old or in the new. They often are searching for self or identity beyond self.”

    From Brietbart
    Evidence Indicates Orlando Shooter’s Ideology Was Imported, Not ‘Homegrown’ As Obama suggested.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/06/14/evidence-indicates-orlando-shooters-ideology-imported-not-homegrown/

    [However, as CBS reports, Mateen’s father—an Afghan migrant— had “well-known anti-American views and is an ideological supporter of the Afghan Taliban. A new message posted by the father on Facebook early Monday morning also makes it clear he could have passed anti-homosexual views onto his son.”]

    [CBS further reports that the father hosts a program that “takes a decidedly Pashtun nationalistic, pro-Taliban slant; full of anti-U.S. rhetoric and inflammatory language… In his Facebook videos, the alleged gunman’s father has often appeared wearing a military uniform and declaring himself the leader of a ‘transitional revolutionary government’ of Afghanistan.”]

    Can you really see a Court now prohibiting two of the worst slaughters in U.S. History being brought in as testimony against Obama in his eligibility at the slightest wrinkle of objected policy?

    Even environmentalist have pinned their hopes on Obama’s inEligibility never being discovered in a Court of law as Obama trys to stitch-proof his Paris agreements.

    Obama is a walking talking environmentalist disaster.. Lesson learned don’t bet against or set your hopes on chromosomes and against the U.S. Constitution ever ever again.

    https://twitter.com/CodyRobertJudy/status/743239689075732480

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/obama-trump-climate-change-213942

  47. avatar
    Lupin June 16, 2016 at 8:44 am #

    Talking about “groupthink”, according to a new CBS poll a whopping 66% of registered Republican voters expect Trump to win, while right now he’s polling nationally at a dismal under 39% against Clinton.

    Clearly 2/3rd of Republican voters are just as bonkers, deluded and wholly ignorant of facts as poor hapless CRJ above.

  48. avatar
    Rickey June 16, 2016 at 11:11 am #

    CRJ:
    While Obama and Clinton run willy-nilly assertions about ‘Gun Control, using the Examples of San Bernardino and Orlando,forgetting both obtained their guns legally under the Law.

    You truly are an imbecile. That is precisely the point. Such purchases should be illegal.

  49. avatar
    Lupin June 16, 2016 at 12:00 pm #

    Rickey: You truly are an imbecile.

    CRJ is to imbeciles what Vega is to a campfire.

  50. avatar
    J.D. Sue June 16, 2016 at 2:00 pm #

    Lupin: Talking about “groupthink”,

    —-

    Talking about “groupthink”–weirdly, while the right wing always says it’s wrong and unconstitutional to ban AR 15s, they all seem to be saying this week that we need to ban them. What the hell? Who sent out the memo telling them all to immediately flip? What game are they playing?

  51. avatar
    ArthurWankspittle June 16, 2016 at 2:42 pm #

    roadburner: man, if you need 30 rounds to bring down what you’re shooting at, whatever it is i don’t want to even be in the same county as it!

    If he needs 30 rounds to bring it down I don’t want to be in the same county as him either.

    Can’t wait to see what Trump proposes re banning people from the US, I expect it will have something to do with their grandparents. (It was American wasn’t it, or something else beginning with A?)

  52. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 16, 2016 at 3:00 pm #

    Rickey: You truly are an imbecile. That is precisely the point. Such purchases should be illegal.

    The family of Eugene Stoner, inventor of the AR-15, has spoken up and says he never intended it for civilians…………….

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-ar-15-inventor-speaks-out-n593356

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 16, 2016 at 9:19 pm #

    I was thinking today about the political alignments in the country. At one time Republicans were the pro-business party. That’s what the old-line Republicans in my state are. And it was a shock when our governor’s former campaign manager ran a PAC that spent half a million dollars in the recent primary trying to unseat 3 long-serving fellow Republican state senators. Clearly there’s a split in the party here.

    Then I tried to break down the Republican party into its constituencies. So first there is the pro-business bunch. Then I tried to figure out what the rest were. I’m thinking that a small group of them are the super rich for whom power just means lower taxes, hundreds of billions in lower taxes. The rest are the exploited working class who don’t realize that they are being screwed over by their own party.

    It would seem to me to make a whole lot more sense if we had a labor party and a capital party (whatever you’d call it).

    J.D. Sue: Who sent out the memo telling them all to immediately flip?

  54. avatar
    Keith June 17, 2016 at 1:50 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It would seem to me to make a whole lot more sense if we had a labor party and a capital party (whatever you’d call it).

    In Australia its the Labor Party and the Liberal Party.

    The Liberal Party is the ultra-Conservative Business Party.
    The Labor Party is the Center-Left (but getting more to the right all the time) Party.

    To find a ‘real’ left leaning party that has a real chance of electing somebody, you have to look to the Greens or the Sex Party. There are also a group of ‘non-parties’ that are really just groupings of independents that have coalesced around a personality: (The Nick Xenophon Group, the Clive Palmer Group, One Nation) which manage to elect folks from time to time due to Australia’s odd (in my opinion) preferential voting system whereby the votes of worst losing candidates are added to the talley of other candidates that didn’t lose by quite so much until all the available positions are filled.

    And yes, there really is an Australian political party called ‘The Sex Party’ which started out as a lobby group for the Adult Sex Industry. They now consider themselves an ‘alternate libertarian’ party and their platform includes legalised abortion, gay rights, voluntary euthanasia, the legalisation of cannabis for recreational use along with the decriminalisation of all other drugs for recreational use as well as support for a royal commission into the sexual abuse of children in Australian religious institutions, introduction of a national media classification scheme, including a rating for non-violent sexual content and opposition to mandatory internet censorship.

  55. avatar
    trader jack June 17, 2016 at 5:16 pm #

    CarlOrcas: Paranoid much, Jack?

    When you have lived as long as I have you will understand some of the problems facing the world.

    Guns are defense weapons and offense weapons and they never fire themselves, except in a strong fire.

    strong guns were needed to control maniacs

    Caesar managed to have the roman army kill 50,000 people in one day using the good old swords, so what makes you think that only guns kill people in large numbers.

  56. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 17, 2016 at 6:46 pm #

    And how long, pray tell, is that?

    trader jack: When you have lived as long as I have

  57. avatar
    J.D. Sue June 17, 2016 at 9:18 pm #

    trader jack: strong guns were needed to control maniacs

    —-

    Not voting for a maniac would be a good start.

  58. avatar
    CarlOrcas June 17, 2016 at 9:31 pm #

    trader jack: When you have lived as long as I have you will understand some of the problems facing the world.

    I’ve lived long enough to know that thinking like yours is one of the bigger problems facing the world.

  59. avatar
    J.D. Sue June 17, 2016 at 10:33 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: It would seem to me to make a whole lot more sense if we had a labor party and a capital party (whatever you’d call it).


    It would probably make a whole lot more sense, except that the super rich need the exploited working class–not just because capital needs labor, but because the super rich are few in number on voting day.

  60. avatar
    CRJ June 18, 2016 at 1:12 pm #

    ArthurWankspittle: Can’t wait to see what Trump proposes re banning people from the US, I expect it will have something to do with their grandparents. (It was American wasn’t it, or something else beginning with A?)

    Why don’t you focus your attention on what Obama’s doing to defend, protect , and preserve the U.S. Constitution and the Union and uphold the laws of the land.

    It’s true, Obama has ordered the flag flown at half staff more than any other person occuping the White House.

    If you call a discussion on radically removing “weapons of war” from the General Population, your aim clearly is in purpose to remove the 2nd Amendment that was not included in the Constitution for hunting deer, elk, and moose.

    Obama’s “use” of the Examples of San Bernardino and Orlando to remove self defense weapons from all Americans is in fact using the employ of ISIS Militants who were also declared radical Islamist only after they pulled triggers in removing a Standard of Defense.

    That is a massive assault upon the protections of Americans from a lame-duck.

    Lupin: Rickey: You truly are an imbecile.

    CRJ is to imbeciles what Vega is to a campfire.

    Lupin: Talking about “groupthink”, according to a new CBS poll a whopping 66% of registered Republican voters expect Trump to win, while right now he’s polling nationally at a dismal under 39% against Clinton.

    Clearly 2/3rd of Republican voters are just as bonkers, deluded and wholly ignorant of facts as poor hapless CRJ above.

    I actually expected more from the French than a Donald Trump plastic label punch. Just calling people names is the sign of an intelligence void of any meaningful argument- affective in the primary tough in the general election.

    We’ve all been saying any terrorist attacks between now and the election would go in Trump’s favor in side the privacy of the voting booth where the only poll is an exit poll.

    Polls are only accurate to the degree a stripper has practised on them. We saw Trump lose to polls that has him high, and win to polls that had him low.

    A Poll taken by liberal sources is really the most dangerous to Democrats. To tell you the truth, it would be much better to be down 10 points now then up in the Polls of the General Election as it encourages people to dig in and work harder.

    Republicans are working harder now while #Democrats are sailing in the cool polling breeze headed for the “Server” Iceberg pointing it’s tiny glacier nose out of the water ready to upend and capsize the Titanic that couldn’t sink.

    A better Poll might be looking at the Democratic Parties 44% LGBT Community that was just gored in the back with a ISIS Knife and the defense of that community looking at Obama with sad eyes for importing 1 million from majority Muslim ruled countries.

    You want to mobilize the 2nd Amendment you do it through that Community who are fierce fighters for those they love, and defenders of liberty and freedom.

    Obama and Clinton have just domestically abused a member of the household that won’t stand for it, and the trust has been shattered! I’m not sure it will ever be recovered away from trusting the Government to protect over trusting yourself.

    God Bless those family and friends who are survivors who have been so horribly and psychologically assaulted and scared for life. We all have suffered a tremendously and very scary wake up call in the middle of the night.

    Where was Obama? Where was Clinton?

    Oh yeah, wanting us to depend on their sorry policies? Trump’s a Master at spin. I probably am an imbecile in many ways to the Media. I confess in just not being as good at the insults.

  61. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 18, 2016 at 2:25 pm #

    Westboro Baptist Church announces they will be picketing Orlando victim funerals.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/06/16/westboro-church-protest-orlando-shooting-victims-funerals/86013966/

  62. avatar
    Rickey June 18, 2016 at 2:58 pm #

    trader jack:

    Caesar managed to have the roman army kill 50,000 people in one day using the good old swords, so what makes you think that only guns kill people in large numbers.

    When did this battle take place? if you’re thinking of the Battle of Cannae in 216 B.C., the Roman Army reportedly lost 50,000 men, not the other way around.

    Of course, citing an event which occurred more than 2,000 years ago is not exactly persuasive. And the numbers are disputed by most historians.

    Guns, particularly automatic and semi-automatic guns, are the weapons of choice for terrorists who want to kill large numbers of people in a very short time. And there is no similarity between the Battle of Cannae and a terrorist attack.

    Before you bring up Boston, keep in mind that only three people were killed by the pressure cooker

  63. avatar
    Arthur B. June 18, 2016 at 3:02 pm #

    CRJ: We’ve all been saying any terrorist attacks between now and the election would go in Trump’s favor in side the privacy of the voting booth where the only poll is an exit poll.

    I think that was the conventional wisdom for a while, but I doubt that it’s widely held any more. If you check the gambling markets, like https://electionbettingodds.com/, you’ll see that after a slight post-Orlando bounce, Trump’s odds of winning have plummeted. At the moment they’re sitting at 19%, lower than at any time since he became the presumptive nominee.

    People have had chance to observe his reaction to an actual terrorist attack, and it was characterized by childish self-congratulations and a complete lack of reflection, compassion, or dignity. The hope that he would begin to appear presidential after the primary season ended has been largely dashed.

  64. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater June 18, 2016 at 7:07 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    And how long, pray tell, is that?

    It seems to be 93 every year he says his age

  65. avatar
    Arthur B. June 19, 2016 at 11:38 am #

    Arthur B.: I think that was the conventional wisdom for a while, but I doubt that it’s widely held any more.

    Appreciate the congrats for being right!

    “THIS was an important and even revelatory week in American politics, and we should take note of it. Contrary to what I’d argue has been the single most firmly held conviction about this campaign by observers left and right, a terrorist attack did not help the Republican candidate in the race for president. Indeed, it seems to have weakened him.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/opinion/campaign-stops/has-political-fear-mongering-lost-its-appeal.html