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The occasional open thread: solidarity edition

Put your Obama conspiracy comments that don’t relate to the current articles here. This thread will close in two weeks.

64 Responses to The occasional open thread: solidarity edition

  1. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 15, 2016 at 1:30 pm #

    There is a new proto-article up at Dr. Con’s Leftist Propaganda blog titled, “The 4th Reich: How the birthers enabled a fascist dictatorship in America

    The story isn’t developed, but the germ of the idea came from what birthers always say about Obama, that he plans to take over the country, confiscate all the guns, and put all the patriots in camps. From time to time I ask myself exactly what is it in the US that prevents such things from happening. One barrier to this is that the people don’t elect megalomaniacs. I’m not so sure that holds in the future.

    I think that Dr. Con’s blog won’t be around much more. I’m working on a a new blog, but it will be about local politics.

  2. avatar
    Thrifty June 15, 2016 at 4:14 pm #

    I continue to be amazed at the Conservative Republican opinion site redstate.com. They absolutely hate Donald Trump. It seems like they might even hate him more than they hate Hilary Clinton.

    The contributors there are very clearly staunch Republicans. It’s apparent when you read articles unrelated to Donald Trump.

    It just blows my mind that conservative Republicans could hate their own candidate this much. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have gotten some flack from the more liberal wing of the Democrats. They are criticized for being too conservative. For basically being Republicans. But nothing like what Republicans are doing toward Trump.

    In past 6 years I’ve heard a lot of people say that the Tea Party faction is ripping the Republican party apart from within. I was always skeptical, especially after Republican gains in Congress in 2010, 2012, and 2014. But now… I’m still not totally sold on that idea but my skepticism is definitely waning.

  3. avatar
    Rickey June 15, 2016 at 5:34 pm #

    Thrifty:
    I continue to be amazed at the Conservative Republican opinion site redstate.com.They absolutely hate Donald Trump.It seems like they might even hate him more than they hate Hilary Clinton.

    Neocon Bill Kristol, founder and editor of The Weekly Standard: “All that one can say about Trump’s comment on US soldiers in Iraq: He has no sense of decency at last.”

    Trump is now backtracking and claiming that he was referring to Iraqi soldiers, but Iraqia soldiers never handled American reconstruction funds.

  4. avatar
    NR Owens Jones June 15, 2016 at 9:51 pm #

    Since you are not my local (South Carolina if I remember correctly), this is going to be a real shame. Although I disagree with your birther view, this really is a very informative site and I usually check in at least once daily. Once is an understatement. More like twenty or thirty. Sad.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    There is a new proto-article up at Dr. Con’s Leftist Propaganda blog titled, “The 4th Reich: How the birthers enabled a fascist dictatorship in America

    The story isn’t developed, but the germ of the idea came from what birthers always say about Obama, that he plans to take over the country, confiscate all the guns, and put all the patriots in camps. From time to time I ask myself exactly what is it in the US that prevents such things from happening. One barrier to this is that the people don’t elect megalomaniacs. I’m not so sure that holds in the future.

    I think that Dr. Con’s blog won’t be around much more. I’m working on a a new blog, but it will be about local politics.

  5. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 16, 2016 at 4:44 am #

    A good example of “ripping apart from within” is the recent scandal here in South Carolina where our Republican governor was caught raising money for a PAC whose goal was to unseat Republican legislators who didn’t follow her ultra conservative agenda.

    http://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/politics-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article83852312.html

    Thrifty: In past 6 years I’ve heard a lot of people say that the Tea Party faction is ripping the Republican party apart from within. I was always skeptical, especially after Republican gains in Congress in 2010, 2012, and 2014. But now… I’m still not totally sold on that idea but my skepticism is definitely waning.

  6. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 16, 2016 at 4:45 am #

    Dr. Con’s Leftist Propaganda blog is a different site from this.

    NR Owens Jones: Although I disagree with your birther view, this really is a very informative site

  7. avatar
    NR Owens Jones June 16, 2016 at 10:51 am #

    OK, I see the new website now.

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Dr. Con’s Leftist Propaganda blog is a different site from this.

  8. avatar
    Lupin June 18, 2016 at 4:50 am #

    The man who killed the MP in England was a follower of a US hate site:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/alleged-killer-of-mp-jo-cox-bought-gun-making-manual-from-far-right-neo-nazi-group-a7086911.html

    I have been ranting here for quite a few years now about the US is an exporter of hate and all kinds of toxic ideas & stuff.

    In effect it’s as if child molestation was more than tolerated & legal in your country, and your exported it to the four corners of the world.

  9. avatar
    Pete June 20, 2016 at 2:40 am #

    Thrifty: I continue to be amazed at the Conservative Republican opinion site redstate.com. They absolutely hate Donald Trump. It seems like they might even hate him more than they hate Hilary Clinton.

    Well, this is Donald Trump we’re talking about. What’s not to hate?

  10. avatar
    Thrifty June 20, 2016 at 1:25 pm #

    Well not much from my perspective, but he is their nominee for President.

    Pete: Well, this is Donald Trump we’re talking about. What’s not to hate?

  11. avatar
    Rickey June 20, 2016 at 7:05 pm #

    Thrifty:
    Well not much from my perspective, but he is their nominee for President.

    I have some Republican friends on Facebook, Most of them will end up voting from Trump, but I haven’t seen much enthusiasm for him.

    Today Trump fired his campaign manager and then one of his top aides resigned after he tweeted disparaging comments about the campaign manager. Trump’s “campaign” seems to be imploding, and now I’m beginning to think that there may be a genuine effort to deny him the nomination at the Republican convention.

    Here in New York I don’t see any campaign ads, because it is a foregone conclusion that Clinton will carry the state, but I’m happy to hear that she is already running ads in battleground states which include Trump saying outrageous and offensive things.

  12. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 20, 2016 at 7:30 pm #

    If someone like Abe Lincoln were to run for office in 2016, would he be able to win? Check out Steven Franklin’s answer.

    https://www.quora.com/If-someone-like-Abe-Lincoln-were-to-run-for-office-in-2016-would-he-be-able-to-win

  13. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 20, 2016 at 7:32 pm #

    Trump hasn’t run any adds in June ANYWHERE! IIRC, Hillary is spending $23 million this month in battleground states.

    Rickey: Here in New York I don’t see any campaign ad

  14. avatar
    Arthur B. June 20, 2016 at 8:40 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy: Trump hasn’t run any adds in June ANYWHERE!

    There’s an interesting irony in that.

    During the primaries, Trump didn’t mind being outspent by his opponents. His talent for attracting media attention served to bring to public attention, at little or no cost, the persona he needed to project in order to prevail.

    In the currently general election environment his style is no longer an asset but it remains in the public eye. He has to spend money now to undo the damage that he continues to do to himself.

  15. avatar
    Rickey June 20, 2016 at 10:21 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Trump hasn’t run any adds in June ANYWHERE! IIRC, Hillary is spending $23 million this month in battleground states.

    I read today that Trump’s campaign has only $2.4 million in cash on hand. To dae he has loaned (not contributed) $40 million to his campaign, but as Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo notes we really don’t know whether that money came out of his own pocket or if he has to repay it to someone else. Questions are being raised about whether Trump is really a billionaire or if his financials are the product of a lot of smoke and mirrors.

  16. avatar
    Thrifty June 20, 2016 at 11:31 pm #

    Popped over to Orly’s site. She’s bellyaching about how all the polls except the ones that show Trump in the lead are liberal biased. It’s crazy the mental gymnastics people like her do to bend the facts to their warped reality.

    I predict that when Trump loses in November, she will blame it on millions of fraudulent votes by illegal immigrants.

  17. avatar
    Thrifty June 20, 2016 at 11:54 pm #

    About this time in 2014, I was set up with a job interview at a place I didn’t want to work. I was already working in a job I loved. But psychologically I couldn’t turn down a job interview, so I went to the job interview. I tried to tank the job interview, but my existing job filled me with so much confidence and positive emotion that I failed at that and was offered the job. I didn’t want to take the job, but the recruiter who set up the job interview relentlessly needled me for the next week. So I took the job. Although I will say it wasn’t because of his needling, but rather because the job I had was about to end. Which sucked because, like I said, I really loved that job.

    When I did take the new job, it was terrible. Due to poor organization and lack of training and resources, I had almost nothing to do while other people were super busy all day. I kind of suffered through the 9 agonizing hours every day, but didn’t put in much real effort to do my job.

    Sometimes I think Trump’s campaign story has been like that. He’s basically been coasting along, saying whatever the heck he wants, and getting pushed further and further along in this “interview” process without expending much real work. Now that the primary is over, and he’s behind in the polls and has a HUGE uphill battle, he doesn’t really feel like doing any work But psychologically he can’t bring himself to quit.

    God, would I love to be a fly on the wall of a few Trump campaign meetings.

    Rickey: I have some Republican friends on Facebook, Most of them will end up voting from Trump, but I haven’t seen much enthusiasm for him.

    Today Trump fired his campaign manager and then one of his top aides resigned after he tweeted disparaging comments about the campaign manager. Trump’s “campaign” seems to be imploding, and now I’m beginning to think that there may be a genuine effort to deny him the nomination at the Republican convention.

    Here in New York I don’t see any campaign ads, because it is a foregone conclusion that Clinton will carry the state, but I’m happy to hear that she is already running ads in battleground states which include Trump saying outrageous and offensive things.

  18. avatar
    Rickey June 21, 2016 at 12:44 am #

    Thrifty:
    Popped over to Orly’s site.She’s bellyaching about how all the polls except the ones that show Trump in the lead are liberal biased.It’s crazy the mental gymnastics people like her do to bend the facts to their warped reality.

    I predict that when Trump loses in November, she will blame it on millions of fraudulent votes by illegal immigrants.

    That just goes to show how ignorant she is. The last poll to show Trump ahead was an ABC News/Washington Post poll in mid-May.

  19. avatar
    Thrifty June 21, 2016 at 9:11 am #

    Oh but that was one of the rare unbiased polls. Don’t you know the rules?

    Any poll that shows Hillary Clinton leading is liberal biased.

    Any poll that shows Donald Trump leading is unbiased.

    Rickey: That just goes to show how ignorant she is. The last poll to show Trump ahead was an ABC News/Washington Post poll in mid-May.

  20. avatar
    Joey June 21, 2016 at 2:14 pm #

    Gallup Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
    June 21, 2016

    OBAMA APPROVAL: 53%
    OBAMA DISAPPROVAL: 43%
    http://www.gallup.com/topic/politics.aspx

    At the same point in his presidency (June 15-19, 2008)
    George W. Bush

    BUSH APPROVAL: 28%
    BUSH DISAPPROVAL: 68%
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx

  21. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 21, 2016 at 9:16 pm #

    Birther Trump is reported to have copy of Hitler speech collection at his bedside:

    http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2015/07/donald-ivana-trump-divorce-prenup-marie-brenner

  22. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater June 22, 2016 at 8:54 am #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    Birther Trump is reported to have copy of Hitler speech collection at his bedside:

    http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2015/07/donald-ivana-trump-divorce-prenup-marie-brenner

    Well he did say he only liked people who didn’t get captured and hitler technically wasn’t captured.

  23. avatar
    trader jack June 22, 2016 at 9:08 pm #

    Everyone should read Hitler’s speeches to learn how to influence the public with oratory. His speeches awoke the public and had some of the greatest attendance to speeches ever seen.

    Sure we don’t like what he had to say, but to think that he could not deliver great speeches to big crowds is not something that politicians would not want to be able to do today is nuts.

    People can learn how to orate by watching the technique used.

    Remember he was only a corporal in the army and rose by virtue of being able to exploit his ability to speak, kind of like Hilary is a good orator, but does not seem to evoke the emotions from the audience, or the attendance to the speechs.

  24. avatar
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater June 23, 2016 at 9:31 am #

    Trump only up 7 points in texas: http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/284508-texas-poll-1-3-unsure-dont-support-clinton-or-trump

  25. avatar
    Arthur B. June 23, 2016 at 10:56 am #

    CNN Breaking News:

    “In a crushing blow to the White House, the Supreme Court Thursday announced it was evenly divided in a case concerning the President’s controversial executive actions on immigration.

    “The ruling means that the program will remain blocked from going into effect, and the issue will return to the lower court. It is exceedingly unlikely the programs will go into effect for the remainder of the Obama presidency.”

  26. avatar
    Crustacean June 23, 2016 at 12:47 pm #

    This executive order and the resulting court battle never should have been necessary. But Congress refused to do the right thing.

    The USA needs to ban bigoted blowhards from all legislatures until we can find out what the hell is going on…

    Arthur B.:
    CNN Breaking News:

    “In a crushing blow to the White House, the Supreme Court Thursday announced it was evenly divided in a case concerning the President’s controversial executive actions on immigration.

    “The ruling means that the program will remain blocked from going into effect, and the issue will return to the lower court. It is exceedingly unlikely the programs will go into effect for the remainder of the Obama presidency.”

  27. avatar
    Thrifty June 23, 2016 at 1:05 pm #

    I don’t really have an opinion on this one way or the other, but what now? Can the Supreme Court hear the case again next year after a replacement for Scalia has been confirmed?

    I agree with the right of Congress to do certain things to block legislation advanced by the president of the opposing party, but some of the crap this Congress does is just bull-spit. Supreme Court justices and debt ceiling limits are basic procedural things necessary to the operation of this country. It’s like a man who’s so cheap he refuses to let his wife buy tampons.

    Arthur B.:
    CNN Breaking News:

    “In a crushing blow to the White House, the Supreme Court Thursday announced it was evenly divided in a case concerning the President’s controversial executive actions on immigration.

    “The ruling means that the program will remain blocked from going into effect, and the issue will return to the lower court. It is exceedingly unlikely the programs will go into effect for the remainder of the Obama presidency.”

  28. avatar
    trader jack June 23, 2016 at 1:56 pm #

    “The USA needs to ban bigoted blowhards from all legislatures until we can find out what the hell is going on”

    “bigoted blowhards” are hard to define, as they are found on all of the sites on the web that allow discussions.”

    And they are democrats, republicans, independents, and all such classifications.

    A bigot is someone who does not want to consider whether or not his/her position is correct or not, and will not discuss the failing of his/her beliefs should they be challenged.

    Normally evidenced by insulting their opponents in the discussions of substance.

    A person, paid to have a point of view, may not be a bigot , just an employee doing a job for which money is earned.

  29. avatar
    Joey June 23, 2016 at 2:27 pm #

    trader jack:
    Everyone should read Hitler’sspeeches to learn how to influence the public with oratory. His speeches awoke the public and had some of the greatest attendance to speeches ever seen.

    Sure we don’t like what he had to say, but to think that he could not deliver great speeches to big crowds is not something that politicians would not want to be able to do today is nuts.

    People can learn how to orate by watching the technique used.

    Remember he was only a corporal in the army and rose by virtue of being able to exploit his ability to speak, kind of like Hilary is a good orator, butdoes not seem to evoke the emotions from the audience, or the attendance to the speechs.

    I don’t think that the oratory and style of a uniformed absolute dictator would go over very well in 21st Century America. Americans don’t hate Jews, communists and socialists enough to be persuaded by Hitlerian totalitarian emotionalism.
    There is a fascinating documentary being shown on the Showtime cable network right now called “Meet the Hitlers.” Its about Adolph’s descendants and what carrying that last name has meant for their lives.

    Another oratorical style that went over pretty well in Berlin in more recent times:
    “Some 200,000 Gather to Hear Obama in Germany”
    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/07/24/some-200000-gather-to-hear-obama-in-germany/

  30. avatar
    bob June 23, 2016 at 3:22 pm #

    Thrifty: I don’t really have an opinion on this one way or the other, but what now? Can the Supreme Court hear the case again next year after a replacement for Scalia has been confirmed?

    The case that was before SCOTUS was about only the preliminary injunction. The case will return to the district court so it can make an actual, on-the-merits, final ruling. Which can (and likely will) be appealed up to SCOTUS.

  31. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 23, 2016 at 8:13 pm #

    I know one when I see one.

    trader jack:

    …“bigotedblowhards” are hard to define,

  32. avatar
    J.D. Sue June 23, 2016 at 10:41 pm #

    trader jack: A bigot is someone who


    You do realize we weren’t born yesterday, right?

  33. avatar
    J.D. Sue June 23, 2016 at 10:51 pm #

    trader jack: rose by virtue

    —-
    If we wanted to rise at all costs, I suspect most of us on this blog could rise to amazing heights.

    Hitler did not rise by “virtue” of anything. He knew how to bring the worst out of people, and cause immeasurable misery and mass murder.

  34. avatar
    Crustacean June 24, 2016 at 1:10 pm #

    Yikes! Quoth Sen. (Not So) Bright: “they’re teaching evolution right now in school, and it’s only a theory.”

    For the rebuttal, may I present Mr. Steve Carell:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H07zYvkNYL8

    Dr. Conspiracy: I know one when I see one.

  35. avatar
    J.D. Sue June 24, 2016 at 2:01 pm #

    Interesting article about how Trump needs to continue putting in over 50% of his time in his real estate business or else he will lose his valuable tax status as a “real estate professional” and end up having to pay taxes on his rents. The author says this is largely the reason that Trump is putting relatively little time into his job as a party presumptive nominee, and putting in more time visiting his investments (e.g. Scotland) and using/promoting other Trump properties in any/every way he can.

    http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/6/24/1541884/-Donald-Trump-part-time-nominee#read-more

  36. avatar
    trader jack June 24, 2016 at 2:57 pm #

    Freudian slip:
    “I don’t think that the oratory and style of a uniformed absolute dictator would go over very well in 21st Century America. Americans don’t hate Jews, communists and socialists enough to be persuaded by Hitlerian totalitarian emotionalism”

    So you think Americans hate Jews, communist and socialist enough, but not enough to be persuaded by Hitlerian emotions.

    How about democrat or republican speech makers?

    How much do you think they should be persuaded?

  37. avatar
    Jack Parsons June 24, 2016 at 9:51 pm #

    Mr. Conspiracy, do you believe married men remove their wedding rings for a night on the town?

  38. avatar
    Dave B. June 24, 2016 at 10:39 pm #

    That’s not quite how it works. An illustration:
    “I don’t think you’re smart enough to find your way back from the mailbox”
    doesn’t mean I think you’re smart…enough…for much of anything.

    trader jack: So you think, etc.

  39. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 24, 2016 at 11:14 pm #

    Sven, I wouldn’t know. I’ve never had a night on the town.

    Jack Parsons: Mr. Conspiracy, do you believe married men remove their wedding rings for a night on the town?

  40. avatar
    Crustacean June 24, 2016 at 11:22 pm #

    Yeah, I think that was kind of disingenuous on Jack’s part there.

    Hitler was a master rhetorician, no doubt. Much of his ability to manipulate millions had to do with how he delivered his speeches. Every movement and inflection had a purpose. He would time speeches so that the setting sun would provide just the right lighting at just the right moment.

    Some like to compare Trump’s rhetorical skills to Hitler’s. But I don’t think Hitler ever would’ve been clueless enough to ride a ‘down’ escalator to announce he was throwing his hat in the ring.

    Dave B.: That’s not quite how it works. An illustration:

  41. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 24, 2016 at 11:25 pm #

    The way I would put it is that he can offset rental income by other losses for tax purposes. Given that this story was written by someone without tax accounting expertise, I am skeptical of its conclusions. I don’t think being a candidate for office is a “service” that would be weighed against his investment activities.

    J.D. Sue:
    Interesting article about how Trump needs to continue putting in over 50% of his time in his real estate business or else he will lose his valuable tax status as a “real estate professional” and end up having to pay taxes on his rents. The author says this is largely the reason that Trump is putting relatively little time into his job as a party presumptive nominee, and putting in more time visiting his investments (e.g. Scotland) and using/promoting other Trump properties in any/every way he can.

    http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/6/24/1541884/-Donald-Trump-part-time-nominee#read-more

  42. avatar
    Joey June 25, 2016 at 2:39 am #

    trader jack:
    Freudian slip:
    “I don’t think that the oratory and style of a uniformed absolute dictator would go over very well in 21st Century America. Americans don’t hate Jews, communists and socialists enough to be persuaded by Hitlerian totalitarian emotionalism”

    So you think Americans hate Jews, communist and socialist enough, but not enough to be persuaded byHitlerian emotions.

    How about democrat orrepublican speech makers?

    How much do you think they should be persuaded?

    Americans don’t much care for Presidents in uniforms since we have civilian control of the military.
    There certainly are some Americans who hate Jews, socialists and communists enough to vote for someone esposing their demise but the groups that more Americans hate today are Muslims and illegal aliens.

    I don’t think many Republican or Democrat spech makers can be persuaded by appeals to Adolph Hitler’s rhetorical style. Hitler was so 1930s.

  43. avatar
    Rickey June 25, 2016 at 2:53 pm #

    And for all of Hitler’s oratorical skills, the Nazis never won more than 44% of the popular vote in German elections, and that was largely due to his brownshirts and SS members engaging in intimidation and voter suppression.

  44. avatar
    Thrifty June 25, 2016 at 6:54 pm #

    So Hillary Clinton has some….. baggage. Things the Republicans like to hit her with and Trump most definitely will. I speak of course about the Benghazi thing and the private E-Mail server scandal. I don’t really follow the stories that closely, but they seem to be giving her a bit of a reputation for being really crooked. Her opponents seem to hate her more for this than for any of her stances on the issues. Trump is definitely using these as a line of attack. I haven’t really seen him criticize her on any of her political stances. Just a lot of “she’s super corrupt!” and “successor to a terrible president!”

    I was discussing the election with my mother, who said she really dislikes Hillary because she’s crooked and slimy, and she might vote for Donald Trump. Mom is a very nice and tolerant person. Not at all a Trump supporter. Any vote she would cast for Trump would really just be a vote AGAINST Clinton. I told her that if she really dislikes Clinton that much, she should really just stay home, or skip the presidential part of the ballot and the local elections (neither of our senators are up for re-election this year, but of course our Representative is and there are county and state level offices). She seemed wishy-washy enough on Trump that she did consider just doing a write-in vote for someone else.

    So I guess that brings me to my question. What affect do you guys thing Benghazi and the private E-Mail server will have on Hillary Clinton’s campaign? My gut reaction is that even though these are baggage for her, the scandals are kind of exotic. You’d have to be pretty emotionally invested to care. But Trump is just such an utterly unlikable guy on a purely personal level that his baggage is a lot more mundane.

  45. avatar
    James M June 25, 2016 at 7:09 pm #

    J.D. Sue:
    Interesting article about how Trump needs to continue putting in over 50% of his time in his real estate business or else

    Shirley a political campaign is exempt?

  46. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 25, 2016 at 7:14 pm #

    You have to remember that Ken Starr investigated the hell out of the Clintons for a number of things. For example Hillary Clinton made more money commodity trading than the usual investor and there was a suggestion that she had inside information. There were a number of other things investigated, but no charges brought. Clinton opponents just assume that she’s guilty, but too slick to get caught. It’s the same outcome motivated evaluation of evidence that we see taken to the extreme in Obama’s case.

    Benghazi has always been nothing. At best Clinton exercised really bad judgment using her own email server for public business. There are examples of Clinton rewriting her own role in history to make her seem more important. That said, whatever Clinton is thought to have done is small compared to what Trump has definitely done.

    Thrifty: I don’t really follow the stories that closely, but they seem to be giving her a bit of a reputation for being really crooked.

  47. avatar
    Thrifty June 25, 2016 at 7:28 pm #

    Well Doc, that’s your view, and you’re a pretty educated and informed guy. But I think a lot of voters aren’t. They’re not stupid, they’re just apathetic. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I think of news and politics as hobbies; you’re either into it or you have more interesting and important things to do with your time.

    What I’m asking is how do you think this affects Hillary Clinton in the more casual voter? Trump has these as bullets in his campaign gun; do you think they’ll be particularly effective bullets?

  48. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 25, 2016 at 8:04 pm #

    I may be educated and informed, but I will admit that the relentless smear campaign against Hillary Clinton that has been going on for decades has colored my opinion of her. In fact, it was rather recently that I went looking into the facts behind those stories. So yes, I think the general public will be influenced by all this negative messaging that will inevitably play in attack ads. And beyond the issues of Clinton’s character, I think one of her greatest vulnerabilities is the extent that she can be tied to free trade, because a lot of people think that America is in decline because the trade deals like NAFTA.

    While there’s lots of negative stuff that can be brought to bear against Trump, I think that what Clinton needs to do is explain how electing her leads to a brighter future, more than explaining how electing Trump leads to disaster.

    Thrifty: Well Doc, that’s your view, and you’re a pretty educated and informed guy.

  49. avatar
    laker1 June 25, 2016 at 9:12 pm #

    Thrifty, you might want to take a look at this: http://nyti.ms/28V6B7V . Granted, I have a certain amount of skepticism about the “experts” but I think Nagourney gives a fair picture.

    If I understand correctly, most voters are not now really concerned about the election and will not pay much attention until after the conventions if then. If I understand Nagourney, when they do, what the Republicans say about Clinton will be a rehash of previous campaigns while what the Democrats say about Trump will be comparatively new and more “newsworthy”. Of course, Trump’s ability to alienate substantial sections of the electorate may help Clinton. You can look at the favorable/unfavorable poll ratings on realclearpolitics.com.

  50. avatar
    trader jack June 26, 2016 at 1:32 am #

    you really think the Hillary is being smeared without reason?
    After what she did to the females after the Monica situation?
    After the Vince Foster thing? After the Egypt thing? After the Libya thing?
    After the email thing?

    After the White House furniture thing?
    After the “we were practically penniless after leaving the White House”
    After the strange speeches by Bill after taking contributions to the Foundation from foreign governments?
    After charging $350,000 for a 20 minute speech?

    Amazing belief , indeed

    Those are small things compared to the apparent violation of the security procedures of the USA

  51. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 26, 2016 at 8:36 am #

    You make my point. You assume the truth of unproven allegations or you assume that something is wrong just because it happened and someone doesn’t think that kind of thing is right. What is wrong, for instance, with charging a large fee to speak? You don’t say, leaving your remark in the innuendo category. Do you think those universities had some secret quid quo pro with Clinton in exchange for all that money? I consider innuendo’s one of the lowest forms of slander.

    trader jack: you really think the Hillary is being smeared without reason?

  52. avatar
    Thrifty June 26, 2016 at 10:43 am #

    Doc I was thinking the same thing about Trader Jack’s condemnation of Clinton’s speaking fees. If she wants to charge 350 grand for a speech, so what? If an organization doesn’t like it, they don’t have to pay it. Presumably the organizations paying these fees see some value. Maybe it’s an investment: they hope to draw affluent donors who’s combined contributions will be more than 350 grand. She’s been a high profile figure for decades and her time is valuable. It’s not much different than a hugely successful actor earning 10 to 20 MILLION for starring in a feature length film.

    Personally I think it’s a little irresponsible for universities to pay that kind of money. Rising college tuition costs are a big issue, and I tend to think a lot of that has to do with universities spending on expensive frivolities like this. But maybe now I’m straying too far off topic.

  53. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 26, 2016 at 2:06 pm #

    In one case she spoke at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas. The sold-out event she spoke at raised $350,000 (less her fee of $225,000). From what I read briefly, it was not the universities themselves that paid the university speaking fees.

    The Associated Press tallied $22 million in fees paid to Clinton since she resigned as Secretary of State. A more detailed breakdown of the categories of the places she spoke is in this article at US News. And $15,9 million of that came from “groups that have lobbied Congress or the federal government” since 2008. But I would think that most groups that could pay out $200,000 for a speaking fee would have lobbied the federal government or Congress.

    Thrifty: Personally I think it’s a little irresponsible for universities to pay that kind of money.

  54. avatar
    Joey June 26, 2016 at 4:41 pm #

    trader jack:
    you really think the Hillary is being smeared without reason?
    After what she did to the females after the Monica situation?
    After the Vince Foster thing? After the Egypt thing? After the Libya thing?
    After the email thing?

    After the White House furniture thing?
    After the “we were practically penniless after leaving the White House”
    After the strange speeches by Bill after taking contributions to the Foundation from foreign governments?
    After charging $350,000 fora 20 minute speech?

    Amazing belief , indeed

    Those are small things compared to the apparentviolation of the security procedures of the USA

    One person’s “smears” are another person’s “charges.” Either way, the American people seem to be much more concerned about Hillary Clinton’s opponent than they do about her: ABC News/Washington Post Poll 6/26/16
    Clinton 51%
    Trump: 39%

  55. avatar
    trader jack June 26, 2016 at 7:02 pm #

    OH,. I agree with you that peopel are entitled to whatever they can earn by perfoming services of actions.

    so, hey do people criticize Trump for his pecadillos ?

    They both should be looked at by the same rose colored glasses, should’t they?

    the people want Hillary, good for Hillary, the people want Trump, good for Trump!

    They both may be good , or bad, presidents, and the opinion of whether they will be good or bad, will be based one that the politicins tell the peoplel

    You sure can not depend upon the Media to tell the truth about either of them.

  56. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 26, 2016 at 10:42 pm #

    There are some deeply researched and well-sourced articles in the print media about both Trump and Clinton.

    It’s interesting, though, that one can read in full detail where Clinton spoke and how much she was paid, while we know nothing about Trump’s income or about his taxes. (Trump is the first major party candidate since 1976 not to release tax returns. There are presently two bills before Congress to require release of tax returns by major party presidential candidates: S. 2979 and H. R. 5386.)

    trader jack: You sure can not depend upon the Media to tell the truth about either of them.

  57. avatar
    Joey June 26, 2016 at 11:01 pm #

    trader jack:
    OH,. I agree with you that peopel are entitled to whatever they can earn by perfoming services of actions.

    so, hey do people criticize Trump for his pecadillos ?

    They both should be looked at by the samerose colored glasses, should’t they?

    the people want Hillary, good for Hillary, the people want Trump,good for Trump!

    They both may be good , or bad, presidents, and the opinion of whether they will be goodor bad, will be based one that the politicins tell the peoplel

    Yousure can not depend upon the Media to tell the truth about either of them.

    I will continue to depend on “the media” to tell the truth about Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump because I understand that “the media” encompasses literally thousands of diverse sources of potential information. I particularly appreciate the fact-checking media outlets who examine the actual word for word statements of the candidates and then research those statements to determine their veracity or untruthfulness.

  58. avatar
    Rickey June 27, 2016 at 3:27 am #

    trader jack:
    you really think the Hillary is being smeared without reason?

    We all know the reason she is being smeared.

    After what she did to the females after the Monica situation?

    Yes, it was terrible how she decided to stay with her husband after he cheated on her. When Trump cheated on his first trophy wife with Marla Maples, he at least had the decency to get a divorce before he married Marla. And then when Marla started aging he dumped her for his current trophy wife. Now there is a man that women can look up to!

    After the Vince Foster thing?

    The Clintons had nothing to do with the death of Vince Foster. Even Ken Starr was satisfied that Foster committed suicide.

    After the White House furniture thing?

    As if Hillary was standing there, giving staffers instructions to do the relatively minor damage which had to be repaired ($15,000, per the GAO).

    After the “we were practically penniless after leaving the White House”

    The Clintons owed at least $2.3 million in legal fees when they left the White House.

    Those are small things compared to the apparent violation of the security procedures of the USA

    Actually it is beginning to appear that Clinton’s e-mail server was more secure than many government servers. As of today there is no evidence that her server was ever hacked. The government can’t say the same about its servers.

  59. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 27, 2016 at 12:06 pm #

    Swedish group saying, “But we refuse to accept the destruction of our once to safe society,” go on a rampage beating up immigrants.

    https://www.rt.com/news/330697-sweden-immigrant-pogrom-stockholm/

  60. avatar
    Dr. Conspiracy June 27, 2016 at 7:49 pm #

    Birther Report DNS error still not fixed.

  61. avatar
    Kate June 28, 2016 at 7:13 pm #

    Dr. Conspiracy:
    I may be educated and informed, but I will admit that the relentless smear campaign against Hillary Clinton that has been going on for decades has colored my opinion of her. In fact, it was rather recently that I went looking into the facts behind those stories. So yes, I think the general public will be influenced by all this negative messaging that will inevitably play in attack ads. And beyond the issues of Clinton’s character, I think one of her greatest vulnerabilities is the extent that she can be tied to free trade, because a lot of people think that America is in decline because the trade deals like NAFTA.

    While there’s lots of negative stuff that can be brought to bear against Trump, I think that what Clinton needs to do is explain how electing her leads to a brighter future, more than explaining how electing Trump leads to disaster.

    I still believe that trying to tie Hillary to everything in her husband’s administration is a hell of a stretch. She was First Lady, not in the Senate nor did she have anything to do with negotiating NAFTA. For that matter, neither did Bill Clinton. NAFTA was negotiated and the agreement was signed by President Bush (GHWB) while President Clinton only signed the legislation after he was inaugurated. Trump ignores the effects of automation on manufacturing jobs and that trade increased jobs elsewhere in the industry. Trump also talked about NAFTA while claiming that China’s trading with the U.S. cost us millions of jobs (Trump says up to 6M or more) as if he’s trying to link NAFTA and China. I know Trump comes across as being increasingly unaware of what’s going on in the world but to try to link China to NAFTA is like taking out a billboard with the claim, “I AM TOTALLY CLUELESS”

    Trump’s speech on Hillary is probably one of the most hypocritical I’ve ever heard considering his apparent fraudulent “Trump University” was known for bilking senior citizens and other students of their hard-earned money and giving them nothing in return. Trump is the candidate known for not paying employees for overtime or for work done for him. He’s disputing a bill for $35k for a painter in Miami for his Doral golf course and has been fighting the foreclosure order issued by the Judge rather than paying the small business contractor his money.

    Having had a business of my own, I know if I had been owed $35k by anyone, having already paid my employees for doing the work, it would have been a financial hardship for the business. We would have managed but it might have led to laying off a few people, at least temporarily, but Trump doesn’t give a damn about anyone but himself. He’s the most disgusting, despicable excuse for a man to ever run for President and that’s saying a lot considering what we’ve all seen over the years. Only small people attack others physical traits as Trump does. A real man would never need to resort to those tactics. He’s a four year old in an old man’s body and the last place he belongs is in the White House.